Xian Beggar Exposes Breasts to Shocked Foreign Tourists

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1. krdr

   Thursday, September 11, 2008 at 4:00 pm

   Poor thing!

   Reply
2. Chinamatt

   Thursday, September 11, 2008 at 7:06 pm

   On my first trip through Beijing a woman dropped her pants to squat in the middle of a large driveway along a busy street. Fortunately my parents missed seeing that one on their second day in the country.

   Reply
3. Clexpert

   Thursday, September 11, 2008 at 8:28 pm

   Chinese people are pussies. If this had happened in the US, she’d be taken into custody by the police.

   Reply
4. Total embarrasment

   Thursday, September 11, 2008 at 9:50 pm

   Yeah that’s totally shocking. A women, with breast! That’s total unnatural, like from hell.

   Now I never ever want to go to China again, much too embarrassing place.

   Oh my god….

   Reply
5. MVP

   Thursday, September 11, 2008 at 10:22 pm

   people !!! this is serious!!!!
   We need religion!!!
   Take your time and
   find our God !!
   He will watch over everyone!!

   Reply
6. Wenwen

   Friday, September 12, 2008 at 12:23 am

   Oh, that’s shocking and sad, i am totally speechless~

   Reply
7. Veer Left

   Friday, September 12, 2008 at 1:12 am

   Big deal. This is just one of the odd things you can see on the street. The only reason that anyone here is shocked and making such a big stink is that it was a beggar and the ‘victims’/'beneficiaries’ of the flashing were foreign.

   Reply
8. Kai

   Friday, September 12, 2008 at 10:52 am

   I can identify with how shocking it is. The shock isn’t so much in just someone exposing herself, it is more about how her doing so might misrepresent China and the Chinese to foreigners. Few people generally want others to see their flaws or mistakes. Parents cringe when their children hurt other people’s children. Teenagers roll their eyes when their parents do something morbidly dorky. Koreans feel compelled to apologize and express remorse when a Korean student goes on a shooting spree.

   In a perfect world, an individual’s actions should only reflect upon that individual. Unfortunately, we don’t live in a perfect world. As someone with a vested interest in what memories a tourist has of China, I certainly wouldn’t want them to go home and tell their family and friends about how utterly vulgar those poor, filthy, dirty Chinese are.

   Reply
9. Veer Left

   Friday, September 12, 2008 at 12:38 pm

   Kai, I understand. This is why the government ‘INTERNED’ all the ‘undesirables’ in Beijing…no charges, no trials. Interned work camps.
   Thats why you are not allowed to talk to anyone when you go on your guided tour of North Korean capital, or even take pictures of things that you haven’t been instructed to take pictures of.

   However, the east Asian obsession with group face is a little much sometimes.

   Reply
10. Kai

    Friday, September 12, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    @ Veer Left:

    Did you bring that up because you honestly care about the “all the ‘undesirables’” or because it was an opportunity to criticize China?

    Please define the “undesirables” you refer to and provide evidence of the “work camps” you insist they were sent to.

    Beijing no doubt “cleaned up” the city in preparation for the Olympics and that involved moving, inconveniencing, and (yes) sacrificing much of the population in Beijing. Did they have the right to do so? Was it legal? Was it understandable? Was it ideal? Were they compensated? Was it fair? Will it continue after the Olympics or will it go back to normal?

    Those are all reasonable questions to ask and insist on getting answers to. However, misrepresenting the complexity of what happened and viciously generalizing it as “internment” is intellectually dishonest of you. If you think I’m wrong in this criticism of you, please go ahead and answer the questions I posed above (1st and 2nd paragraphs).

    North Korea is appreciably different from China. This is not to say that China does not also manage media tours itself. But your association of the two is irresponsible.

    “Group face” is just another term for “pride.” Westerners have rules and enforcement against “undesirables” loitering around tourist attractions and high profile locations as well. Let’s not even bring up Homeowners Associations.

    Chinese people were ashamed and upset with one of their own embarrassing them and their nation with public indecency. Wishing for the authorities responsible to enforce prohibitions against loitering is not the same as the Chinese central government possibly displacing whatever “undesirables” you’re referring to for the Olympic Games. There are situations where you’re justified in being upset and criticizing…and then there are situations you’re just being an ass.

    Please try to avoid the latter.

    Reply
11. krdr

    Friday, September 12, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    There’s good reason why I said “poor thing”. I knew that there will be misleading discussion. I also don’t understand why is non-Chinese ashamed. In every country, every bigger city, you’ll find someone prepared to do some shameful things like this. You can find video where some woman shows her breast in New York.
    Showing breast are less shameful than breaking countries and starting the war to fill pockets. At last, it is less shameful than this: http://www.chinasmack.com/stories/i-like-being-a-kept-mistress-my-life-right-now-is-great/

    If something China should be ashamed is sole existence of poverty. Poverty can not be banished or put in working camp, but must be fought. Just like Project Hope did.

    Reply
12. Veer Left

    Friday, September 12, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    Kai, really… google ‘beijing undesirables olympics’.
    I am not going to clutter this thread more with this tangent, but you questioning me is ridiculous. Ask the questions of the people in power…questions like this one.
    “WHat gives you the right to HOLD people (some where not even CHINESE) for weeks without being charged with something?”

    Reply
13. Veer Left

    Friday, September 12, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    Forget it…I’m actually kind of annoyed Kai. Do you actually live here? (China)

    The Daily Mail (London) reports,

    From street children, hawkers, the homeless and prostitutes, to the mentally ill, black migrants, drug dealers and gays caught in public bathhouses, the camps on the outskirts of the city started filling up with Beijing’s ‘undesirables’ last year as part of the Chinese regime’s determination to present what it sees as an acceptable face to the world.
    [...]
    Deploying thousands of undercover police, as well as uniformed groups of youths wearing red shirts and armbands, strenuous efforts have been made to ensure the city has been purged of all ‘anti-social’ elements.

    If you live here and think this is far-fetched’ in any way, please speak up.

    The area of Beijing is called DAXING BTW.

    Beijing no doubt “cleaned up” the city in preparation for the Olympics and that involved moving, inconveniencing, and (yes) sacrificing much of the population in Beijing.
    1)Did they have the right to do so? Depends on YOUR definitions of ‘rights’.
    2)Was it legal? Define LEGAL…this is CHINA.
    3) Was it understandable? Yes.
    4)Was it ideal? NO.
    5)Were they compensated? HAHAHAHA. No. They worked in souvenir assembly and food prep…for the OLYMPICS.
    6) Was it fair? I dunno…how would you like it?
    7)Will it continue after the Olympics or will it go back to normal? Maybe for a few months…

    Reply
14. B.Smith

    Saturday, September 13, 2008 at 3:40 am

    One frustrating thing about the Chinese mentality is that they are so embarrassed by things that commonly happen in other countries, including Western countries. I once saw a few toddlers begging on a cold winter night in Changsha, and took a picture before an angry Chinese man chased me away. I was new to the country at the time, and didn’t understand why he had chased me off. I decided to ask my students, who immediately went from happy and talkative to angry and ashamed. Once I understood the situation, I tried explaining to them that EVERY country has poverty, it is not something that makes China lose face UNLESS it is ignored.

    The fact that there are poor children or beggars with psychological problems in China doesn’t make China lose face in and of itself. The reaction of some of the netizens above, however, does China lose face. No human being, however dirty or shameless, is “trash”. The beggar woman is either extremely poor or has a psychological problem. Either way, she doesn’t need to be hated or killed, she need compassion and a firm helping hand.

    China: It is okay if you have poor people and beggars. America has them too! But those of us who are wealthy should be reaching down to help those beneath us. Do that (like you did in the earthquake) and the whole world will love and respect you.

    Reply
15. Kai

    Saturday, September 13, 2008 at 4:05 am

    @ Veer Left:

    Yes, I live here, in China.

    You do know you failed to answer the very questions I specifically highlighted for you to answer, right? Of course, I’m entirely unsurprised that you instead chose to answer all of the rhetorical questions I have no qualms with.

    Let me repeat it for you:

    Did you bring that up because you honestly care about the “all the ‘undesirables’” or because it was an opportunity to criticize China?

    Please define the “undesirables” you refer to and provide evidence of the “work camps” you insist they were sent to.

    Remember, your claim was: “This is why the government ‘INTERNED’ all the ‘undesirables’ in Beijing…no charges, no trials. Interned work camps.”

    You know, here in Shanghai, a lot of those same unlicensed street cooks and other “undesirables” were nowhere to be seen while the Olympics were in town. But once the Olympics ended, they all came back. Were they “interned” in internment camps while they were gone? No, they were just hanging low, not doing the very things they are technically not supposed to do because the authorities were determined to more strictly enforce the rules while the big event was going on. What? You’ve never seen loiterers scram when the local constable comes around?

    Now, I have no doubt that Daily Mail article by Andrew Malone painted a very vivid picture in your mind. Moreover, I’m entirely confident that China has done and is fully capable of carrying out such atrocities (hey, if the Americans can do it…). But if you read what I wrote above carefully as you should have, you really should have understood what my position is. I very clearly stated that Beijing definitely “cleaned up” the city. My issue is with your categorical accusation that ALL “undesirables” were “INTERNED” in “work camps.”

    I’ve lived in China, and society as a whole, long enough to know when someone is going out on a limb with an exaggerated, black and white, claim…to scratch his deep-seated itch to rage against a favorite enemy. That’s the premise behind my very first question to you, which you’ve yet to answer. Have you actually seen people get carted off, ostensibly to those work camps? Have you hung out in Daxing? Ever talk to a happy overtime-working guard at those work camps? Gee, surely you must have tons of documented evidence from at least some of the many Chinese human rights activists struggling throughout China, right?

    Hm.

    Look, I think what you said was more sensationalist than contextually accurate. That goes for Andrew too, but he’s got a readership to entertain and ads to sell. You don’t. You can afford to be a little less sensationalist and more reasonable. That said, the second part of what I think is that you’re more vested in expressing your contempt for the Chinese than actually caring about the “undesirables” that were “all” carted away. I reckon if you actually cared about them, you could link me to some of your posts on some Chinese forums trying to engage and “enlighten” the very people that would most benefit from being aware of these horrible things.

    Finally, I do want to remind you that it was you who brought this tangent into this thread. It would only be fair and reasonable for me to take you to task for it…if I consider it to be a largely irrelevant (to the post) attempt to again accuse China, the Chinese, or the Chinese government of being inherently evil. One has to wonder how you manage to get through each day with so much seething contempt. Surely life would be better back home? I think your blood pressure would thank you for it.

    Or who knows, maybe you’re here to save us all, and publicly lamenting about all those “interned Beijing undesirables” on this website is the first step in a grand plan.

    Reply
16. Kai

    Saturday, September 13, 2008 at 4:22 am

    @ B.Smith:

    1. Is it possible that they didn’t want you to take a picture of a poor child because they thought (albeit mistakenly) that you found the “poor kid” funny or something you wanted to show to your friends back home? Few people like airing out their dirty laundry, their flaws, their weaknesses, their misfortunes. They may have thought it was rude for you to treat the poor kid as some object of novelty. I doubt many poor people, homeless, or beggars in the West would appreciate a tourist walking up to them and trying to snap a picture, much less that of a child. Same in China. Don’t we believe in a right to privacy?

    2. I feel like some people here think this is about China being embarrassed by their own country’s poverty. You know, to a degree it is, but I don’t really read much of that into the comments translated above. I think the main issue to them is one of self-respect and self-dignity. It is very much like the “kowtow” issue, and what the woman did was similar to denigrating and debasing oneself for a foreigner for, of all things, money.

    I’m fairly confident that most Chinese are aware that poverty exists everywhere and they now many Chinese beggars like preying on rich Western tourists. That is pretty embarrassing in of itself but I do think a very clear line is crossed when a Chinese person goes out of her way to flash some tourist and simultaneously sears horrifying images into the guest as well as giving Chinese people, as a whole, by association, a bad name.

    For every person that understand that this is just one desperate, crazy, or outright shameless individual that doesn’t represent all Chinese people, there are hundreds who are all too willing to let that impression be the basis of their opinion of all Chinese. Sad, but true. Understanding that, maybe we can understand the strong Chinese reactions.

    3. Don’t take internet comments too seriously. It is highly unlikely most of the Chinese posters above would actually want to drag her out and shoot her. Let’s acknowledge that many people say things under the cloak of anonymity they wouldn’t say otherwise. I try not to, that’s why I have a Gravatar. :)

    Reply
17. chinapasticcio

    Saturday, September 13, 2008 at 9:26 am

    Kai, you suggest internet comments posted “under the cloak of anonymity” should not be taken too seriously and, to some extent, I do agree. However, whenever I read the material provided by chinaSMACK…be it, um, titillating or tongues-in-cheek (puns intended)…the ensuing comments consistently contain a disturbing thread of thought.

    Disturbing to me anyway…in that many, many commenters either devalue a fellow human being as “trash,” or summarily condemn them to death. And the primary motivation for these harsh judgments appears to be in the name of miànzi. In this particular context, I would counterargue that the cloak of anonymity actually unveils a true reflection of prevalent opinion.

    I have lived in China for a number of years now and I find the Chinese preoccupation with face (as well as many other aspects of life in China) to be both fascinating and frustrating. In fact, this rather odd mixture of fascination and frustration is why I remain here…for the sheer challenge of coming to know, to understand another people and their culture.

    I have often wondered whether the staggering number of China’s population is what is responsible for the frequently callous disregard, disdain or condemnation of another human being…whose life (and/or choices) does not conform to the “norm.” When a middle school girl jumps to her death, it is hailed as one less “frail reed” who would not have contributed to society anyway. When a 20s-something woman chooses life as an èrnǎi, she is castigated for being a prostitute. When a beggar flashes her breasts, she is instantly liable for undermining China’s face.

    I humbly suggest the incredible diversity of life and lives on this planet is not occasion to judge. Rather, it is occasion to grow…closer to each other, instead of further and further apart.

    If your heart went out to the victims of the Sichuan earthquake, then the universal heart inherent in all of us beat as one, if only for a moment. If your heart did not go out to this beggar woman…or anyone else whose life does not follow your pattern, your choices or your expectations…then our universal heart loses a beat.

    Reply
18. Kai

    Saturday, September 13, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    @ chinapasticcio:

    We agree more than we disagree. E-thuggery is a persistent phenomenon, and the key thing to remember is that it is not limited to the Chinese or to concepts of “mian zi.” The cloak of anonymity exaggerates what people think and feel.

    Take the example of Veer Left, who very likely does not actually say what he writes on this website, in public, with the Chinese around him. At least not with the same forcefulness.

    I think “face” is one of those easy things to be frustrated with about Chinese society, but I do not find it overwhelmingly odd because, while it is more dominant here, it is not a fundamentally foreign concept to all humans. Likewise, the value of human life or of the individual vis a vis the group is also not a unique concept to any race/society. Societies merely place different emphases on them given different situations. These are all subjective value judgments, not objective truths (however we might appeal to the latter). Who or what society in this world hasn’t dealt with issues of pride, embarrassment, shame, discrimination, etc. etc. etc.?

    The danger for this “universal heart” is seeing each other in black and white terms, rather than acknowledging and struggling with our mutual shades of gray. I see the comments made above and I can identify with them. Before I feel revulsion, I’m comforted in knowing that those people, those comments, and those emotions really aren’t that different from what I can see elsewhere in the world.

    When that happens, I think this website has accomplished what it has set out to do.

    Reply
19. Veer Left

    Saturday, September 13, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Oh, my bad. I wasn’t aware which questions needed answering…because to many Chinese those ‘rhetorical’ questions don’t have the same answers that you and I feel they should.
    1)Did you bring that up because you honestly care about the “all the ‘undesirables’” or because it was an opportunity to criticize China?
    A bit of column A and a bit of column B. Mostly it is because I really can’t stand the 3rd reich overtones of the whole ‘cleansing. It’s VERY similar to 1936 Berlin IMHO.

    2)Please define the “undesirables” you refer to and provide evidence of the “work camps” you insist they were sent to.
    I did. Reread. I suppose you want lists of names or something impossible like that.

    The old enemy that I struggle with isn’t China or the Chinese at all…it is the spectre of persecution, the monster that is peoples indifference to unfair treatment, and the giant wool cap that is being conveniently pulled down over the eyes of the world.

    This woman flashing her breasts is a bit shocking but not even close to the oddest or most appalling things a laowai can witness here (or many other places).

    Kai, judging by your tone either you are the appointed state apologist or
    you are an ABC with a Asian version of ‘White Mans Burden’.

    Reply
20. Veer Left

    Saturday, September 13, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    Oh. And if asked in a real life discussion, I will always give my opinion. It would be incorrect to assume that I will not say the same things in person if a similar conversation/topic was in progress.

    Reply
21. Kai

    Sunday, September 14, 2008 at 12:30 am

    @ Veer Left:

    I like your gusto, and I’m happy you admit that you take opportunities to criticize China.

    As for not being aware that my questions needed answering, come on now, don’t play stupid. You knew full well that I both asked the questions and then further requested that you answer them. It was beyond clear. Now, as for the rest of your comment…

    1) The Daily Mail editorial definitely used Third Reich overtones liberally, and it is clear it profoundly affected your opinion of China, the Chinese, or the Chinese government. Personally, I think it is important to always remember the Third Reich so we can avoid it happening again. However, that’s just one part of the equation we use to determine when to start throwing around generalizations and needlessly inflammatory, nonconstructive language (as Andrew did and as I feel you sometimes do).

    The other part is determining just how Third Reich China really is, taken as a whole. That’s where I think the association is stretching and sensationalistic. China has very grievous flaws and problems that are very reprehensible to you, I, and many other people including the Chinese themselves. However, I don’t think they’re quite at the Nazi level. On my scale of “abject terror,” modern China is absofuckinglutely far less frightening than 30-40 years ago during the Cultural Revolution and the heights of Maoism. It has gotten incredibly better (though Mao set the bar low) and I dare even say it is getting better.

    True, there are utterly frustrating and demoralizing issues that persist, but lamenting incessantly that China is somehow the second coming of Nazi Germany is not only inaccurate, it goes against the entire point of others being here. For better or worse, Nixon came to China and China opened up. Since then and through the principles of engagement, China has seen incredible and positive changes. It isn’t perfect, and it is far from where many Westerners want it to be, but the question is: Do you really think it is going to get better if you keep smearing and alienating them as Nazis?

    2) You copied what Andrew wrote. I provided you a far more reasonable (remember Occam’s Razor?) explanation for what happened to all those “undesirables.” Do you honestly think EVERY, SINGLE one of those “street children, hawkers, homeless, prostitutes, mentally ill, black migrants, drug dealers, and gays” were rounded up and interned in work camps?

    If you answer in the affirmative, then you’re so out of touch with reality that there’s not much for us to discuss. If you can acknowledge that your claim was an unqualified exaggeration, then we’re getting somewhere. Again, I remind you, it is very likely that the vast majority of them kept their heads down, knowing full well they won’t be tolerated loitering around the Olympic venues and other foreign/touristy areas because a) they’re not supposed to in the first place and 2) doing so is just asking for it.

    These people are survivors, Veer. They’re not idiots. They’re not going to loiter around waiting for governmental wrath. You give them far less credit than they deserve and the worst part is co-opting them as victims in your anti-China sensationalism. Worse still, you’ve yet to offer any substantive proof other than an editorial written in London. That’s hearsay, Veer, even if I excuse you for eagerly throwing Occam’s Razor and common sense out the window. If you want to insist that your initial claim is entirely factually correct, you’ve gotta get past the bullshit meter and present better evidence.

    Hell, lie to me and tell me your best Chinese friend moonlights as the #1 torture specialist in those work camps outside Beijing, regaling you with tales of fastening jumper cables to the scrotums of all the gay men caught in public bath-houses.

    At least it would be better reading.

    Otherwise, we have a ton of resources on the internet, from those Chinese human rights activists I mentioned before (that you ignored) and all the Western expats and foreigners living in China running blogs and websites doing good investigative work, exposing problems, writing incisive critiques, and advocating honest meaningful change. I’m sure you can find something at GVO, ESWN, Danwei, etc. etc. etc. These aren’t the people who are going to let Beijing round up “ALL” those “undesirables” and “intern” them at “work camps” without saying something. You can do better than Andrew.

    “Kai, judging by your tone either you are the appointed state apologist or you are an ABC with a Asian version of ‘White Mans Burden’.”

    I’m neither, Veer, but I’m amused by your efforts to make sense of what you’ve read here and my Gravatar. If you’ve crawled the China blogosphere as much as I have, you wouldn’t even begin to accuse me of being a state apologist, much less an ABC. “State apologist,” hah! I’d love to see you argue that one.

    Oh, and if you want to insist that you’d be as rudely inflammatory in real life as you are on here, I welcome you to at the very least link me to an example of you accusing a normal Chinese person that they remind you of the Nazis. Preaching to the choir on English-language blogs doesn’t really fit the bill.

    If you can’t, have the decency to acknowledge when you’ve stepped beyond the lines of rational discourse. There’s no shame in admitting when your emotions might have gotten the best of you. For what it is worth, knowing you’ve survived here for so many years, I really do trust you’re quite mature about these things offline.

    Reply
22. Veer Left

    Sunday, September 14, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Where to begin? I’d like to clear the air Kai.
    I’ve touched a nerve apparently. I apologize. Maybe I’m just really sensitive to a few of the themes apparent in a case such as this…

    1) As a 1st generation Canadian of German (East!) heritage, I have heard from the old folks how it started and the signs…PLUS then the rise and eventual fall of communism in DDR. Now factor in the 2nd half of my heritage as a Black Caribbean, and you’ll understand how the idea of imprisonment with no charges irks me. In fact I really have to stop myself from intervening.
    I only tell you of my heritage because I don’t have a ‘gravitar’ and I’d like us to know each other a bit better.

    2) No I don’t think ‘EVERY SINGLE’ ‘undesireable’ was rounded up…I don’t think that everyone is stupid enough or slow enough to be caught.
    This is NOT the point. The point is that I disagree with work camps with no formal charges. Re-education through labor etc. That this practice exists in the OLYMPIC venue is ridiculous. Time will tell, because if there was one message that I got from my former commie relatives, it was that the day of reckoning will come. All the block informants and corrupt prison guards etc..will all meet a sticky end.

    3)I can’t write Chinese characters (I know…I’m retarded) or I would check out the boards first-hand, but this is mildly irrelevant. My life is not just in Cyberspace, I live here, interact here and have live discourse. My breadth of experience in this country is not limited to the average Shanghai/Beijing laowai ‘highlife’, and it’s associated civilities.

    4) Ask yourself this concerning this ‘story’. Does it seem farfetched? Is this an unimaginable scenario? You do know the history of the last 50 years here right?

    5) We both tread the middle ground Kai. Go to China Daily BBS and see the lunatic fringe of the blind nationalism. See rampant censorship in action.
    You are a very reasonable person I am sure, and I don’t want you to think that I view you as otherwise. I also don’t run around plainly saying, F–K China!, because that is not how I feel.

    I didn’t argue that the black migrants were deserving of imprisonment. Or any of the other undesirables for that matter. The issue that I have is the cover-up, the lack of formal charges, the lack of acknowledgement in the media, whilst we all praise the ‘huge strides’ in human rights.

    I am honest to a fault, and I appreciate you for your candor on this BBS. In another thread I praised you for ‘turning a perfect phrase’, and somebody accused me of being condescending. I didn’t know what they meant until I realized that they assumed I was looking at your picture and praising your English skills as a Chinese as opposed to just flatly admiring your choice in terminology.

    Reply
23. Kai

    Sunday, September 14, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    @ Veer Left:

    You’re sensitive to persecution. So am I. Your concerns are not necessarily misplaced, but instead of expressing concern, you express contempt. You are, in effect, persecuting the Chinese. This is not going to stop them from persecuting others, it very well might feed it. That is why I said you’re not being constructive and why I asked you to ask yourself just why you’re saying what you say.

    Re: 4) I think I made myself clear already that I am fully confident that such things happen. My position is not to dispute its possibility (even probability) but to reign in the sensationalist hysteria. The latter rarely results in any positive and constructive changes. See above.

    For the record, I don’t think the central theme of the Olympics for most of us was praising the advances in human rights. If anything, those are a persistent sore spot given all the reports of speech and press freedoms being restricted (applications denied for the three protest zones anyone?).

    Personally, the biggest theme of the Olympics was that many more people around the world hopefully saw that there are changes in modern China and that they’ve come a long way from what they were taught and still being taught about it. This is meant to give them (and us) hope for the future, that things CAN change and they can change for the BETTER. We have to keep working at it, ideally in a rational, positive, constructive manner.

    Basic psychology is that harsh criticism is usually met with defensiveness and dismissal. With the world being integrated as it is and China being powerful enough to not really fear the threats of its critics, it is not wise to alienate it. Blame and persecution against Germany following World War I played a significant role in the rise of Hitler, the Nazis, and the Third Reich. This isn’t to say anything you say will amount to what was done to the Germans back in the early 1900s but it should serve as a cautionary tale.

    I like honesty but as someone who has shoved his own foot into his own mouth countless time, I’ve come to appreciate and respect both tact and being careful with our words. You’re right that we both very likely tread the same middle ground, and I trust you’ll take me to task when I make similar mistakes. I very much enjoyed this exchange with you, even if we’ve alienated all the other commenters on this website. Cheers.

    P.S. – I never understood why they said you were condescending until this explanation.

    Reply
24. dave

    Sunday, September 14, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    haha. It is funny. I am sure this is not going to cause foreigners to be sickened by China or that they will find China such a disgusting place because of a pair of bouncy saggy boobs on a nutty woman.
    I am sure that people getting online and crying about how this has made China lose face and that she should be put in prison and all that gibberish will make foreigners say, “What is wrong with Chinese sensitivties?” You will make it a bigger deal than it should be.

    Reply
25. Bob

    Monday, September 15, 2008 at 12:02 am

    Reply
26. kak

    Monday, September 15, 2008 at 12:23 am

    chinaSMACK, you should translate a broader spectrum of views as some people seem to subscribe to an availability bias.

    Reply
27. Listen Up, people from China

    Monday, September 15, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    That’s some great hospitality shown to tourists from that China woman.

    How much RMB to kiss, fondle or suck those knockers?

    Reply
28. Veer Left

    Tuesday, September 16, 2008 at 1:35 am

    Back on topic…
    I’d sooner give her money that the beggars that just say “money,money bao money.”
    She understands the concept of entertainment. Sing, dance, tell a joke or , lacking those talents…show us your ‘goodies’. Provide a service.

    Reply
29. Chinamerican

    Wednesday, September 17, 2008 at 6:08 am

    I wonder if this woman has actual psychological issues. It’s not every day a woman goes out and flashes someone, or even does so for the sake of money; I think anyone in his/her right mind knows that it would shock rather than illicit sympathy. The woman could have been pestering the foreigners for a number of reasons, including money.

    If it were a man flashing his genitals, would we still assume it was for the sake of money?

    Reply
30. dave

    Monday, September 22, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    He said “genitals”, hehe.

    Reply
31. Jay

    Thursday, October 2, 2008 at 12:29 am

    this is sad. maybe she is crazy? I’m just surprised that no one figured out how to blame it on the foreigners. I did see one stupid comment that slimmed the japanese even though they had nothing to do with it. prostitution is rampant in china so i don’t know why the chinese aren’t as upset by that?

    Reply
32. Wen Jia Bao

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Everyone calls her “human trash”, but you know, so many girls in China sleep with guys for money. Ernai, right

    People act so shocked, but yeah, prostitution is everywhere.

    Oh and those people with death threats for the woman, why don’t you actually go out and do it? I mean, seriously, if you really think that she somehow shames all of China…then go do it?

    No, you wouldn’t, because all of you making the death threats and “calls for action” are actually rather large, vacant, dusty, gaping, shit-caked pussies.

    Reply
33. Hu Jin Tao

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Yeah, all of you guys lose face. I’ll never go to China again.

    Because that woman showed her saggy hooters, I just think all Chinese people are disgusting and immoral.

    China is gross ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

    Reply
34. Rick in China

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    It’s unfortunate Fauna can’t remove posts by idiots like the anonymized loser posting under wen jiao bao / hu jin tao with clear intent to spark arguments from people who don’t realize how much of a troll he is, without kind of..destroying the notion of freedom and free speech :(

    Reply
35. chinapasticcio

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    @ Rick

    I don’t know. Pretty much all of us that comment are anonymous, no? And a lot us might even be losers or trolls, too. While I think his rhetoric went beyond what was necessary, I believe he made at least one valid point. In that I flex between weary and appalled at the amount of calls for killing people, or using the human flesh search engine to track people down.

    Reply
36. Rick in China

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    @Chinapasticcio
    Anonymous is relative, regular logged in users are somewhat anonymous vs. people who make up names for one time posts to incite..which is what I meant.

    I agree with your point in essence, but am not convinced his intention was to make a point about needless calls for violence or death penalties as opposed to trying to insult the posters of that hate as being pussies for not taking it into their own hands…who knows.

    Reply
37. Vanessa S

    Wednesday, October 29, 2008 at 10:15 am

    WUT THE HELL IS THAT!………………………how dare they did this kind of things…….. shameful….

    Reply
38. C*inkUnit

    Wednesday, October 29, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Obviously someone’s been watching Granny gone wild… OH SICK OH NO FU**

    Reply
39. GlobalJim

    Tuesday, February 3, 2009 at 12:43 am

    Ohh my god…I can’t believe Chinese people would say to have the woman killed. What ever happened to trying to find here some help. She may need some psychiatric help more than anything. But what the heck…just kill her. What ever happened to trying to help your fellow countrymen?

    Reply
40. ChinaJim

    Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    This women must have some metal problems.No one who be interested to see those pancakes! The tourist had a funny story to tell.

    No need to for Chinese to take it personal, there are crazy people in all countries. How many tourists are murdered every year in the U.S.

    Reply
    • Bronze Breeze

      Tuesday, December 8, 2009 at 7:03 pm

      Of cause she’s chinese

      Reply
41. Ray

    Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Try being o poor you can barely afford food. Fuck all of you who think you are better than her. Try being in her position first rather than posting off you parents computer saying how ashamed you are. China should be more ashamed that people have to do this in the firt place, rather than being ashamed that it happened.

    Reply
    • disgusted

      Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 2:04 am

      fucking crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its disgusting behaviour!!!!!!should be locked up!! poor fucking thing, what did it do wrong????????? shamefull

      Reply
42. Umm

    Wednesday, July 15, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    That is entirely uncalled for! I don’t understand her reasoning behind it, especially since she was short and had saggy boobs. It is just plain embarrassing.

    Reply
43. Chen

    Friday, July 17, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    I am a chinese, although I am not from China. I saw this when i was browsing around, and read the comments. One thing that caught my attention is Chinese from China will always be chinese from China. Mentally I mean. All that happens and they are worry about they dignity, or losing face. Did you all looked at the big picture? Did you all think that she want to do that? You all are not helping by degrading this poor soul. All you guys care is about yourself. When I saw the picture, I really do sympathies her, but when I read the comments, from chinese, I, a chinese myself, am ashamed. Chinese communities have high education background, but their mindset and thinking are still way behind in the primitive world. Chinese in china wanna compete with the westerners? Think again. Too much egoistic can kill. There are crazy people from all over the world, that I agree. But how many would help?

    Reply
    • Joe

      Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 3:23 pm

      Chen, you are the only Chinese person that I like.

      Finally. There’s one.

      Reply
    • LeungShangen

      Thursday, January 7, 2010 at 5:03 pm

      True, I totally agree with you as a Chinese who isn’t born in china. I think that as Chinese people we have a lot of pride in our culture are ethnic group our history and especially how we are looked upon by others. Of course theres going to be people who stereotype everyone in a race..if they saw this..such as oh..all chinese people will do anything for money if they homeless. That is a stereotype, but survival is what humans nature is. Survival however you can and yes she may be flashing everyone her boobs, but she has no shame in it, as we people live in houses or whatever we see it as they woman must be crazy. She is doing what she needs to do to feed herself,cloth herself, and have a shelter and even if she has kids which i assume she does. To do what ever she can for her children to have something at least.

      Reply
44. 芳

    Saturday, July 25, 2009 at 3:51 am

    lost her mind 4 $

    Reply
45. The_Lost_City

    Saturday, January 2, 2010 at 6:13 am

    i gotta say, you guys on chinasmack work HARD. translating the articles AND translating a lot of the comments?!?!

    insane! i love this site!!

    Reply
46. jazz

    Tuesday, March 2, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    for this poor woman to be exposing her breasts is nothing compared to the vulgarity of most of the comments on this page, except for a rare one like ray’s who is giving this poor woman some dignity.

    Come gather ’round people
    Wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters
    Around you have grown
    And accept it that soon
    You’ll be drenched to the bone.
    If your time to you
    Is worth savin’
    Then you better start swimmin’
    Or you’ll sink like a stone
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come writers and critics
    Who prophesize with your pen
    And keep your eyes wide
    The chance won’t come again
    And don’t speak too soon
    For the wheel’s still in spin
    And there’s no tellin’ who
    That it’s namin’.
    For the loser now
    Will be later to win
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don’t stand in the doorway
    Don’t block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There’s a battle outside ragin’.
    It’ll soon shake your windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don’t criticize
    What you can’t understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is
    Rapidly agin’.
    Please get out of the new one
    If you can’t lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    The line it is drawn
    The curse it is cast
    The slow one now
    Will later be fast
    As the present now
    Will later be past
    The order is
    Rapidly fadin’.
    And the first one now
    Will later be last
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Reply
47. zongzong

    Sunday, April 10, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    我出生在中国，我生长在中国，这或许是社会的无奈，我个人认为这种情况需要时间来处理，中国发展的太快，不仅仅是GDP，包括人的思想，和生活的方方面面，不能期望政府把事情做的面面具到，因为中国太大人太多。
    现在中国政策的中心是经济建设，在中国内部面临的竞争要远远大于国外内部竞争，但这不是个借口，而是还有众多人民的知识水平没有跟上，而改革开放后的传统道德素质破坏，而新的道德还未形成，造成的社会发展的畸形，但这不会发生在农村，因为很多农村的这种观念还是比较传统的，如果这个事情在农村传统上是被看不起的。
    各种的社会矛盾，政府领导人也是比较明白的，但改革难度依然很大，最终的结果必须是中国百姓知识水平提高，带动素质的提高

    Reply