‘China Does Not Have Any Men Suitable For Me’

Pretty Asian girl holding glass of wine.A Shanghai Jiaotong University female’s views on marriage.

Author: Self-professed leader of the Jiaotong University football [soccer] cheerleading team.

I am a female student of Shanghai Jiaotong University. It’s my first time writing a post. Please don’t laugh at my bad writing.

Everyone has an ideal in life. Some wants to become a hero, some wants to become rich, some other desires to become a leader. So what about me? My greatest wish in life is to marry a Western1 man. Some might say I am very vulgar, or even a turncoat, but I am a very traditional girl. To me, the most important thing in life is marriage. There is a very trendy saying currently, that studying well is not as good as marrying well. Marrying the right man is more important than anything else.

Some might ask, “Are there not enough good men in China?” Sorry, I have not considered before. As for the reason, don’t be impatient. Sofa, stool, the floor, take your pick, and listen to this girl’s reasons one by one.

I. China does not have any men suitable for me.

I am a very distinct/outstanding girl. In terms of academics, I am studying at a famous university, have an excellent academic record, and I am not one who wears thick glasses or sticks her head into books like a high-IQ geek. I have an excellent figure, an amazing look and a cultivated style of conversation. I am the leader of the football [soccer] cheerleading team. I took part in the local beauty pageants many times. I also have an interest for music, dance and art. Additionally, I often write some gossips for the newspaper. In summary, I am an excellent girl in every aspect. But what kind of man should I marry? There are lots of boys who are pursuing me, and most of my friends have boyfriends as well.

But when they graduate, they either break up, or they start talking about marriage, about family matters and where to settle down. They talk so seriously about everything, expect for love which is the most important thing in a marriage. I am very passionate about my life, I wish to have both a excellent materialist and spiritual life. Sorry that I can’t find that on a Chinese man. Marry a schoolmate, eventually become a white collar in a company? Can that afford a house?

I want to have a huge living room, big enough to be like a small salon. I could be together with my friends talking about anything under the sun, savoring high quality wine. Even the bathroom must be big enough to fit in a large bathtub, for two people, so I can put on some gentle music and spend a romantic night with my beloved husband.

Also, the guy I marry must at least have enough money to buy a car, right? Or am I supposed to go to work by bus everyday? It is like in a freezer in winter, and in a microwave in summer, and within a few years a beautiful young girl will become a dark-skinned granny. Besides, are you guys really willing to let a white-collar beauty like me be pushed around by those dirty migrant workers?

China definitely does not lack rich men, but have a look at what kind of people they are. How many of them succeeded due to their own effort, ability or honesty? If they are not brick-moving labour contractors, then they are coal-digging boss from Shanxi, or they are corrupt. They are neither civilised, nor do they have a good bearing. How am I supposed to converse with them? To be honest, they will regard it as art if you are able to hum a few lines of pop music.

When they have money, they will go out eating, drinking, visiting prostitutes, or gambling. Just trying to live a peaceful life would be difficult. There are already people coming to the university to pursue me, extending their arms to give me business cards showing that they are some CEO, chairmen of the board, high-ranking bureaucrats, each of them wealthier and more arrogant than the other. Some even directly suggest me to be their concubine. Oh my God! I may not be an exceptionally beautiful woman, but I am at least a young and beautiful girl, who worked very hard for years to get into a prestigious university, and I can only be a mistress?!

II. Western countries have better living conditions.

Even if a rich single guy, outstanding, elegant, and falls in love with me, hmph hmph, this girl [referring to self] still will not really want to marry him. To be blunt, I just want to marry into the West. The Western world I have seen in television and movies is simply like heaven: clean streets, elegant buildings, pure air. Regardless whether bustling cities or quiet villages, everything seems to be so peaceful and harmonious. Regardless their academic background, everyone is very polite.

Based on this MM‘s [my] abilities, I could of course be a woman who lives in a villa, but so what? Even if we can afford a villa, can we buy clean air? Isn’t there dirt and dust everywhere in this country? The rural areas are better, but I don’t want to go there. Wouldn’t it be weird, if while I am sun-bathing in a bikini at my swimming pool a bunch of farmers outside the fence carrying baskets of dung stare at me? Tibet indeed has very pure air, but please, this girl is afraid of high attitude sickness.

I especially dislike the current living environment. Every home has anti-theft doors, and despite having lived in the same building for years, everyone is awkward every time they meet each other. Many people can’t even be bothered to bring their garbage downstairs, piling it up in front of the doors in the summer stinking. Sometimes I even wonder whether I am not living together with a bunch of cavemen. Rice has poison, milk powder will result in big heads, pork is from floods, oil is from the ditches, just thinking about it makes me terrified.

Sorry, you want me to love you, give me a reason first? Don’t have any? Start loving foreign countries. The American “home town” [sic], France’s vinyards, Spanish coastal towns, British medieval villages, it could be any of those. One of my schoolmates went to study abroad in Canada, and brought his/her father there for half a year. and when he came back he would whine: “Ai, that [Canada] is really a place fit for people to live.” Don’t give me any excuses, if you want my love, you have to give me a reason, right?

The costs of living in China is too high. We spend like Americans and earn like Africans. My parents worked hard to send me to university, so I should repay them and take care of them right? Even I become a high-ranking white-collar, would the salary really be that high? My parents are getting old. If they become ill and hospitalised, what can I do about the excessively expensive medical bills? Western countries have universal health care. Especially the job market in China, there is nothing to be praised. Each time I see the over-crowded job fairs, I almost get a heart attack. Dear me! The job fairs are rather like WW2 Omaha Beach (Normandy on D-Day). I am a delicate girl, how can I squeeze through these smelly guys?

As a modern woman, the first task in life is to survive, study and get into university, find a job, save money for a house, and save money for retirement. Which one of these does not require slaving away? Isn’t it tiring? If my fellow schoolgirls did not become dark-skinned grannies after graduating, they found a rich person to marry, and allow their husbands to go out eating, drinking, visiting prostitutes, and gambling, pretending they do not know, why suffer?

Pretty Asian girl.

III. Western boys are all very excellent.

Having said this much, that the environment is good, material things are good, this third point is what I value the most: I simply like Western men. Ever since I was small, I liked watching Western movies, such as Roman Holiday” or “Gone with the Wind,” and I liked watching the Westerners in the movies, their faces are all so sharp and distinctive, especially their charming coloured eyes, their straight pronounced noses, their tight smooth lips. Moreover, the majority of Westerners are tall, have strong and handsome physiques, and always so sexy. Then I look at the Chinese guys around me: Ignoring the small eyes, they have lumpy noses, thick lips, and if their skin is tanned a bit, they look remarkably like Africans. Those who have been educated almost all look malnourished, making me worried whether they can protect me or not. Occasionally, there is a muscular man, but despite having grown a head, they did not grow a brain.

Many college guys are pursuing me, and other guys in society also often ask me out on dates, but there are not many I like. Each of them either look like a soy sprout, or like Ultraman [character from a Japanese TV show], each of them unkempt, and at minimum each of them do not pay attention to their own image. Many of the guys spit in public, I particularly dislike people who do this. Only little children and animals defecate and urinate everywhere, and spitting in public is not much better than defecating and urinating in public, so at most they count only as half-civilised.

The majority of Western men carry themselves elegantly and well, because they received good education from when they were small. In our city there are McDonald’s and KFC restaurants, and I often go there with friends to eat. All the Western men in the restaurants seem to have good upbringing, opening doors for others to enter first. Chinese guys, the moment the door opens, they rush towards the counter, often colliding with people exiting, as if they were the reincarnation of someone who starved to death in their last life. The Westerners1 who enter all stand in line, Chinese men rush up in a crowd, surrounding the counter shouting their orders. as if they haven’t eaten any food in a long time. And without being ashamed, they throw their trash wherever after eating, but those Westerners would fold up the waste paper in their trays, making it convenient to dispose, and what they haven’t finished, they throw go dispose of in the wastebins by themselves. The two are simply are not the same level of people.

Furthermore, some Chinese men lack a sense of independence, only knowing how to revolve around girls, living like a super nanny. I feel they don’t have a self, sticking their thoughts on girls all day. Getting on the bus, they scramble for a seat, then busy themselves trying to give it to a girl, not caring about the elderly or children beside them, that I am embarrassed to sit down. This kind of men I also look down upon, revolving around their girlfriends before marriage, revolving around their wives after marriage, revolving around their bosses at work, and revolving around the kitchen after work. No thoughts, no temper, my god, I would be afraid of the son I have with this man being like his father, a model citizen so obviously cultivated by an authoritarian country.  What girl does not like a man with personality and courage?

Western men were all raised in an environment of independence. They have independent thinking, not like Chinese men, who are parrots.  Take my schoolmates for example. When the government talks about Japan and China’s good bilateral relationships, they like Japan. When the government promotes nationalism, they shout about attacking Japan. Each and every one of them are brainless, played like monkeys by others, yet still thinking themselves to be high and mighty. The whole lot of them a bunch of “pig headed men.”

There are some things I cannot say in real life, so I can only say them online.

Pretty Asian girl on steps.

In summary, I simply want to marry a Westerner, at best an American, but European is not bad either. As for  criteria…I am not very demanding, it is no big deal even if his education is lower than mine, and no specific requirements about his work…isn’t the monthly salary for washing dishes at McDonald’s over a thousand USD? This can still allow him to buy a car and house. If this isn’t possible, I will just find a divorced man and be willing to be a stepmother. Besides, Western children have a strong sense of independence, at least they will not let me always clean up after them and cater to their every whim, right? If even this is not possible, Japanese or Korean men I would also consider, I would even consider marrying a Korean or Japanese. At worst, they will not cook for me.  No matter what, I just want to leave the country and go to the West, if not for freedom then for money.2

I admit I am very worldly, but I don’t consider my thinking to be wrong. I am not hurting other people, I just want to live a better life, whether it is materially or culturally. I watched an American show “Desperate Housewives.” That quiet village, clean streets, green lawns, and elegant, polite neighbours, and I knew, that is the kind of life I want.

This story has actually been on the Chinese internet for some time, maybe a year. It will occasionally reappear and there will be new comments by netizens who have not read the story before. Copies of the original Chinese can be found on Xinhua and Baidu.

Notes:

1 She used the words 老外 [lǎo wài] and 西方男人 [xī fāng nán rén] here interchangeably which literally mean “old foreigner” and “Western men” respectively. I consistently used the word “western”, although “老外 [lǎo wài]” of course would theoretically also include Korean or Japanese. But it is usually applied to Westerners or countries with a similiar political or cultural system.

2 The original Chinese words used were 选票 [xuǎn piào] and 钞票 [chāo piào] which mean “vote” and “banknotes” respectively. They both end in the same character, literally saying “voting slip” and “money slip”.

Comments from Baidu:

Clever, very clever!!! Only one sentence, nothing more to say.

First: With this kind of mindset, even if I was rich I would not want.
Second: This kind of female, is suitable for being a walking corpse [rotten, useless person]
Third: Counting three generations upwards, your ancestors were all peasant farmers. According to your thinking, all of your male ancestors would never be able to get a wife, so please tell me where did you come from?
Fourth: After letting the dogs fuck you ten thousand times, let then every Japanese do you. Go become a comfort woman for the Japanese.

After reading that, I am speechless. But I forced myself to write a reply, for the dignity of Chinese men. I tried hard not to immediately curse you, but in the end I cannot stop myself. You are simply a woman who did not get enough dick in your last life, what damn qualifications do you have for scolding Chinese men, including all the men in your family, and of course your own father. I imagine your dad would be pissed to death after reading this, and even if he did not die, he would become an idiot because your dad is also a Chinese man. You have grown up wasting how much of the country’s resources, and have you made just one day’s contribution to the country after graduating? Instead, you deny/reject your own ancestors, you “white eyed wolf” [someone who bites the hand that feeds her]. Had he known you were like this, your dad should have held back three seconds so he could ejaculate onto the wall instead, to save me from being pissed off today because of you, wasting my time to replying to this post.

Everyone has the right to choose their own life. As a Chinese, her being able to write out all of this is also not an easy thing to do, so it is possible that Chinese men really have let you down. I don’t know if you wrote this post in one go, I think it is not bad, and demonstrates your writing talent. But have a closer look at your essay: Everything you know about what is outside of the country comes from movies and media. I don’t know whether you are still studying or already working, but I want to say that nothing in the real world is absolute. Where there are good people, there will also be bad people; this is a very balanced world. Furthermore, have you done the calculations? How much wealth can you create? Everyone is clear about what they want, especially someone who has received higher education like you. Marriage is not like dating, marriage is even less a joke. Who do you think would look for a recent graduate who, other than being well-educated and pretty (this is what you said, I have never met you), cannot create any value? I say this without implying anything else, only wanting to say that if you want to reach your goal, should you not first consider for a moment where your own worth is?

Having your own dream is a virtue. For human being, he (she) has even more charm. But the form of this kind of dream must have a kind of self-sketched ability, and not something that goes by the book. This dissertation/thesis is a bowl of “hui guo rou” [a Chinese dish of recooked pork].

What a lamentable person! What reasons caused this outcome? This is a problem worth pondering by every Chinese person!

I neither support or am against your thinking. Everyone has the right to choose their own life, just like those in the red-light districts working the night shifts. They themselves are very happy, they do not have to do anything, yet they can get anything. From their perspective, I can understand them. After all, there are people in this world who have self-respect and self-love, and those who wallow in degeneration, and can sell their dignity and soul to chase material comforts, people who live life one day at a time.
Everyone has their way to find happiness, it does not need to be the same.
But I still want to ask you, do you believe in lifelong love? Although I have not found it, I believe in it!

Comments from 6park:

Continue your daydreaming! A foreigner would not give money to you!
He thinks it’s his money. If you want to spend money, earn your own! Haha…

Don’t get upset. Put her abroad for five years, and then let her see whether foreign men or Chinese men are good. She still has this good image about abroad like from the early 90s.

Obviously, this woman has never seen real foreign men.

Support! That’s a girl with a strong character.

Foreign men also drink, gamble and go to prostitutes. Them having money doesn’t mean that you can spend it.

Trash woman.

Pretty Asian girl sitting down bending over.See more views on love and marriage by Chinese women and netizens:

Images: These images are not of the author. I am not sure if the author added the pictures to her original post or if other netizens added them when they reposted her essay. Some of the pictures were stupid so I did not include them here but I include two. One is extra – Fauna.

  • Eric Wong

    Scotland and bagpipes, where doest thou hail from?

  • krdr

    There’s a 600 million Chinese men and she cannot find suitable one!
    We all want better life, and we all want to get it on easy way. It is natural.

    She talks about clean streets and air. In USA? LA, SF, NY,… Not so sure. I found Beijing to be cleaner than most of European cities (I spent just few days in SH, so I cannot say how clean is). To much western TV shows, definitely.

    She would like saloon to talk with the friends, but forgets that she will not have friends in foreign country. Then, she cannot just talk with friends.She must to work. Maybe very hard, as 1000$ isn’t enough.

    I wish her all the best in her life, but personal luck and happiness is something what we build not what we get.

  • Gaoshan

    Eric, if it isn’t your intention then do not do it. You won’t be able to raise the level of discussion until you can learn to be more fair in your thinking.

  • nico

    cry me a river!

  • Eric Wong

    Gaoshan …since when did you take it upon yourself to be fit to lecture me? Go and wash your face first before you are even fit to address me. You think you are a great intellectual of sorts, and you can raise the level of discussion?

    Tell me in what way was I not being fair? Have you been to Italy? If you have, then you are certainly not fair enough to admit to what I rightly pointed out, to be fair to China.

    Granted that this site has a lot of ‘civilised’ westerners visiting, I am game for any counter attack….but please don’t do it anonymously, hiding behind there. Tell me where you come from and let me tell everyone here something about your backyard, mate.

  • Gaoshan

    You are revealing yourself to be a less vulgar version of the “dave” commenter. I don’t think there is any point continuing a discussion with you given this.

  • Eric Wong

    Ha…you’re saying Dave is vulgar? That’s interesting. But I can pack a punch, and a heavy one at that to punch the wind out of you, without using vulgar words…eh?

    …and for those listening in who might be interested, please read, if you will, my various rejoinders which were meant to put things in perspective, to be fair to China. I do not blame the young girl who has not seen the western world. What little she knows, she got it from Hollywood films. I could understand those angry comments coming in from presumably Chinese people. But what irritates me was when some people whom I presume are not Chinese tried to insult China and its people by comparing it with other countries. In that case, the only thing which is fair is to let everyone know something about their backyards….Italy, Los Angeles…even New York, London and of course, Scotland.

  • Vikram

    I’m with you on this Eric. I’m from India and having lived in China too i have seen a lot of asian bashing happening these days as if its something fashionable for these people to go on about.

  • Simon

    We shall all cherish the freedom to pursue true love and eternal happiness. My advice, however, is that statistically she is better off to find an excellent but not yet rich chinese man and then they can build a successful future together in order to be able to settle down anywhere in the world they desire to.

    Given her superficial knowledge about western men and western society and culture, it would be some major or even monumental task for her to find true love among western men.

    Happiness is not free, and lasting love requires strong bond.

  • dave

    Eric you are not putting anything in “perspective”. And why do you think you need too?

  • Ms_Chief

    I’m sure this girl would kill for all those handbags being thrown around by you ‘boys’.

  • 马俊豪

    The original article is a fake right?

    It has never been written by a Chinese woman really interested by Westerners.

    It is so much a regular cliché about differences between western and Chinese men…

    If I was working for government and had the goal of flushing some oil on the Chinese nationalism fire, I would have wrote exactly this kind of article.
    The author of this article actually obviously despises foreigners.

    Boohoo

  • fcuk da lu ren

    Eric is probably a monkey mainlander conscripted by the govt to spread the communist rhetoric throughout this thread. He tries to bate us into arguing with him so that he can get his Oxford English “idioms” worked into sentences to denigrate the “western” posters.

    When he is not outside “reciting” words in public he is eating hot pot with his buddies picking his nose and talking about how great China’s 5,000 year history is (with one pant leg pulled up and clear socks).

    Maybe he was in Milan with the other monkeys pulling out Chinese flags and assaulting Italians until he got his head cracked by some Milanese police who not so politely reminded him that despite he and the other thousand law breaking Chi Mates waving red flags, that this was still Italy.

    Its not wonder this chick likes us better, and for good reason. Even the fattest ignorant red neck is eons above a Chimatron in terms of class.

    • ABC Teenager

      Are you insinuating that all Chinese men are, say, eons below the fattest ignorant red neck? This is a genuine question, as I am not familiar with the term Chimatron. Though in context, it may refer to the conscript you mentioned earlier.

    • Daphie

      Please dont say “like us better” when you are not one of the “us”. You are just a pathetic idiot with identity crisis.

  • fcuk da lu ren

    Here’s a stupid question. If she moves to America, how is she going to sit in her salon and talk to her friends all day? Won’t they be in China? American women work

    • ABC Teenager

      Having been born in the U.S. and incidentally, still living in it, I can say with confidence that quite a lot of American women do not work. You’ve got to understand that laziness is a universal affliction.

      I do not intend to direct animosity at you.

  • http://ispyshanghai.com Swiss James

    I think 马俊豪 is right on the money here. Even if a girl was so naive and misguided about the west, would she really feel the need to say so many bad things about her countrymen on the net?

    Got to be a troll.

  • Eric Wong

    hahahahaaaaaa. I am enjoying it very much. Here’s another ‘civilised’ clown from the west, an idiot to wit, praising my impeccable Oxford English idioms. Readers, please note that his cowardly name is fcuk da lu ren, which means fcuk Chinese mainlanders. So, see for yourself how ‘civilised’ some westerners can be. Opening doors for others? This is what I call hypocrisy, a label which was surprisingly earlier foisted on such a good guy like me. Oh my good lord!

    As expected, he did not dare to reveal from where he cometh. Anyway, this kind of cowardice is not unusual. I once had an encounter with one of these western ‘gentleman’ in MAINLAND. You nah, that fella was shivering in his pants in front of me. Face to face with me, he probably wished that his mother was around. Oh yeah, he was a head taller than me and had arms longer than a gear, hanging limply like monkey’s arms.

    I respect Vikram’s courage to at least identify where he comes from.

    Hear! Hear! You westerners will pay a high price for your arrogance with the rise of India and China. I have already seen not a few western men working for Chinese….and for me. Sad to say, they didn’t seem quite as fluent in English inside the meeting room. What a shame!

    I wonder why fcuk da lu ren is in MAINLAND? Maybe he knows that he is a nobody back home. There is, amongst others, an exit point at Pudong, for him to get out and lost. He can always return to his ‘civilised’ country, to sunbath in the nude, in the knowledge that no one will look at him (he’s after all only a road-sweeping commoner over there, and in China anyway), to enjoy his Hollywood dream home (Note: DREAM), and have some trysts with western prostitutes (lots of them there) with his socks concealed, of course. God has no place in western societies. 哎! 太可惜,真地太可惜!

    • Daphie

      You are stupid enough to buy his thoery. He is not from west.

  • Josh

    This conversation has gone off the rails. Being “civilized” has nothing to do with what happened in 2,000 years ago in Greece, India, or China. I doubt most people from any country really have much in common with their cultural ancestors anyway, or knowledge for that matter. How many Westerners can really discuss the Peloponessian War or Chinese, the 8th century battle of Talas with Persia that may have led to the spread of paper? Few, but not many.

    And who rates the opposite sex on that stuff anyway? Her point is valid. For whatever reason, mainland Chinese men, on average, seem to be less romantically suave(although they can be decent, kind husbands/boyfriends) or seductive than Western men. Until very recently the West put a greater emphasis on individual vanity, etc. It’s just more emphasized there. That’s probably changing now for the next generation in China. And I can admit, as a white American, that other cultures beat us on this. Yes, Brazilian or Italian guys really are more “romantic” than us, partly bc of different values and priorities. I can accept that.
    Bottom line, having a great, ancient civilization and a beautiful language is fine. but, in terms of women, there are some real differences b/w Chinese and Western men.

    1) Western men are much more likely to intervene to help a stranger. Chilvary, while often absent in the West, seems totally dead in China. Bystanders can be callous everywhere, but how many times have you seen a woman being robbed (or beaten when driving a bus) and Chinese men just standing there? Much more often than American men would.

    2) Hobbies- Chinese dudes, get out of the internet cafes. Go to the gym. Or something. Anything else. Women do not care about online games.

    3) Act confident without being just arrogant. Really, there’s something indefinably nervous and awkward about A LOT of Chinese guys. Work on that. Try to copy Tony Leung or Chow Yun Fat. There is an innate type of coolness mixed with playfullness that Asian guys can have in theory.

    4) Accept that Chinese women are changing. Don’t bitch about how city girls aren’t virgins at marriage, or don’t have traditional values, etc, etc. Get over it and change. For some reason, Chinese women seem to adapt to new forces much faster than men.

    5) Manners- this is getting better, but spitting, picking your teeth, etc. I guess that’s fading away, but there’s still a lot of just bad public behavior. She’s right about KFC and public dignity.

    That’s all I can think of. Point is, lashing out at Western society, prostitutes, or ancient Greece versus ancient China is pointless. the only goal here is to find out what women want and try to be that.

  • Eric Wong

    I wonder if western men will ride on their white horses to the rescue of a damsel in distress in Napoli (Naples), Los Angeles, New York, et al….hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

    Tried as I did to correct Western arrogance, I only receive even more. What do I have to say to someone who is so myopic and whose command of Oxford English is so poor that he cannot understand what has been written above.

    Nothing.

    By the way, I am not a Mainlander, certainly not conscripted…but I just cannot stand by and watch how arrogant and prejudiced SOME western men are. I am not saying that all western men are bad, though.

    There was along the way some digression ….into benchmarking others, in particular Chinese, using Western principles of what is considered free, civilised and dignified. That was when I wrote to say my two cents worth. I have not for a moment lost the main theme of what that fictitious young woman want…a Hollywood style home bal bla bla….maybe some of you did, and went on squabble with me.

    Expectedly, not a few western men such as the preceeding poster, became defensive, after the truth about their backyards was revealed for all to see.

    You may pick your nose only inside your tiny toilets back home, but go and wash your face again and look at yourself in the mirror. You are not angels, mate. You think WE don’t know New York?

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Eric Wong:

    Dude, you started off quite reasonably but somehow death spiraled into a flaming monstrosity. One guy mentions Italy and Brazil in the context of “sunbathing” and you jump on him rattling off various points of Italian embarrassment (while insulting quite a few other countries in the process). Geez, man, why?

    We all have our “fight-fire-with-fire” moments but you seemed to devolve into tit-for-tat ranting out of nowhere. I’m not even sure what Josh said was really condescending when he gave ample qualifiers that Westerners are far from perfect and quite calmly gave his thoughts on 1) Chinese society improving (with regards to people enjoying themselves like sunbathing) and 2) Chinese men in general may do well to go out and learn to be more assertive. But you dog-piled that and heaped insults on Italy with what seemed like minute provocation (not to mention the most tenuous of relevance to what Josh said).

    It doesn’t take long for people to know fcuk da lu ren intentionally and shamelessly tries to get a rise out of other people with his comments, but, man, you started off so well. Now your comments are so full of vitrol you don’t seem much better than people like fcuk da lu ren, people who cannot seem to rise above their insecurities and feel compelled to sling hate to reassure themselves.

    Your English definitely belies a healthy amount of Western education so I certainly hope you can calm down and 1) not play into the role of an insecure nationalistic fenqing (with better English), or 2) be the Chinese equivalent of ignorant, insecure, hate-mongering Westerners.

    And again, I really don’t know what set you off on the whole initial Italy thing. I know I’m not the only person who thought you blew up out of nowhere.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Josh:

    Just for the sake of conversation…

    2. Ironically, Asian girls generally play online games far more than their Western counterparts. Some of it has to do with it being a cheap and convenient avenue of escapism. That said, while Chinese guys can do quite a bit of socializing with real girls online (where both parties feel less shy behind a monitor/keyboard), I agree that many should work on real-life social skills.

    3. Yes, this is just a basic rule for all men, nay, all humanity in general. Just be confident in oneself. Everyone has insecurities, but part of the reason people are attracted to confident people is because we admire those who have the qualities we lack.

    4. I think socio-economics play into why women may adapt to or be more willing to adapt to Western social dynamics. I feel bad for the guys and while they do have certain legitimate gripes, sitting around whining about it isn’t going to improve their situation just like whining about “hurt feelings” doesn’t garner much international sympathy for China whenever they play that card politically.

    5. I think the manners issue is not so much about Western vs. Chinese but rather about socio-economic status. Poor people tend to exhibit more “uncouth” and “uncivilized” behaviors/habits than their better-off counterparts, both in China and in other countries. Within context of China’s modern history and general poverty, it is frustrating but a bit unfair to expect them to have the same manners and sensibilities as citizens of societies that have been “modernized” for far longer. I mentioned this in another comment elsewhere in this site but I think it bears repeating. We have to be careful of associating certain behaviors with race rather than poverty.

  • Eric Wong

    hahaha….maybe I am masochistic and enjoy the bashing.

    Since Italy was mentioned, so I kind of wrote my version of what that fictitious Chinese girl wrote about China. I am sure a lot of us here suspect that it was written by a western man, no less.

    The tit-for-that was really fun.

    If you read what Josh wrote today, you can clearly see how he tries again to define China, and in the process, insult its people, using his own valoue systems. Bad Bad. So, I don’t think I need to reply to you, since he already had.

    • Chegs

      This girl is an out and out materialistic slut.

      As a Western guy, this is the kind of money-grubbing whore I detest. To begin with, what about equality? She assumes that a man has to provide everything for her; a huge house, a car (obviously she cares nothing for the environment either), fine wines. Hah! Ever thought about getting off your lazy, ho ass and earning some cash to pay for these things yourself. Your ideas of gender roles are positively Victorian, bitch.

      To the Chinese guys reading this, I say breathe a huge sigh of relief that you won’t have to marry a bitch like this. I know you guys are mostly OK and have stronger family values than this boot!

      • ABC Teenager

        A humorous hypothetical: I’m a Chinese American, so my chances of getting hooked up with this gal is 50/50, am I right? Insert awkward chuckle here!

        Did anyone notice her statement saying that the U.S. has universal health care? I haven’t had any health insurance for years now. Pitiful really, here’s a toast to me not getting pancaked between two SUVs in the near future.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Eric Wong:

    Wow, there are better people to pick on than Josh, better comments to tear apart than his, and far better ways to communicate than your’s.

    It is clear you have no idea how disappointing you’ve become to those of us who thought you wrote reasonable and balanced initial comments. Now you’re coming off as a prick and the worst part is you choosing to embrace it in the most cocksure fashion possible. Whatever semblance of reason and respect you first garnered is now lost. That really sucks and there’s not much reason for me to try to continue imploring you to stay within the realm of rational discourse and mutual respect.

    I know in your heart you feel “they” disrespected “you” first but, wow…I…I don’t know what to say really. For someone who has traveled so much and has had so much cross-cultural education, I expected better of you. You’re so dead-set on trying to make others see their own dirty laundry, you’re not pausing much to see how much of an ass you’re being and how similar you’ve become to them.

    If I, as a Chinese person, had to choose to feel insulted, I’d feel more insulted by your flag-bearing for the Chinese than what Josh has said trying to suggest how Chinese men can get more ass.

    Best of luck, mate.

  • john patrick

    “Had he known you were like this, your dad should have held back three seconds so he could ejaculate onto the wall instead, to save me from being pissed off today because of you, wasting my time to replying to this post.”

    Haha…really, that is the funniest comment on this whole page.

    She kind of implies that she would rather marry a dishwasher in McDonalds than a rich Chinese businessman. Surely this is a fabricated post? Really, who would bother posting this shit with some old snaps cadged off the internet? Come on! Pull yourselves together people!

  • Josh

    Eric, I wasn’t trying to define China. I was talking about how Chinese men relate to women. There’s no good or bad about it- it’s just important if you care about the opinion of some Chinese women. I doubt the first Chinese guy to just spacewalk cares. and so what? he’s a badass who WALKED IN SPACE! To hell with what women think right? But… if you do care, then it’s a valid discussion. And you can scream about this all you want, but it is true that many women in the West and in China are not turned on by the average Chinese man. I’m sorry. It’s just true. I’m not making this up. But so what? If you’ve got the right stuff, doesn’t matter who you are. I’m sure a guy like Chow Yun Fat can have any woman he wants. Because as an individual he is a very sexy man.

    More importantly, lighten up. Seriously. More Chinese need to learn to laugh at themselves. I can laugh at the image of clumsy white guys like me on the dance floor. Or our ridiculous U.S. president. I’m tired of any criticism of any aspect of China being taken by many Chinese people as a vicious attack on the entire country. I can sit around with Russians, Germans, Nigerians Brazilians, whoever and openly discuss our countries’ flaws, calmly like adults. But not with Chinese. It’s like talking to a teenage girl about her boyfriend- who’s perfect in every way, and if you don’t see it that’s because “you don’t understand.” China is not perfect. Westerners can be arrogant and ignorant when they criticize it. But not always. It’s a sign of national confidence, when people can laugh at themselves. I’m still proud of my country, but it’s not perfect. And neither is its culture. And neither is yours. or anybody else’s. No one thinks of great British cuisine, or orderly Italian traffic, or honest Russian government, or fast white sprinters. And, I’m sorry, women do not think of the Chinese as great lovers. That’s not an insult to the worth of the entire Chinese people. It’s just a stereotype. If a Chinese man knows he’s sexy, then good for him. But if thinks he’s not, getting mad at “arrogant Westerners” isn’t going to help.

  • Josh

    also, Kai. yes I agree that my points were probably more about socio-economic status. What I’ve read of pre-1948 Shanghai revealed a suave, cultured kind of guy that got either thrown out or “re-educated” since then. I think spending 40 years elevating peasant/worker culture above all else didn’t help. This may sound harsh, but I think until very recently Communist China was a peasant culture, aside from a few elites. So, since that’s changing quickly, I’m sure the rest will catch up. Oh, and one other thing, the girl mentioned something about physical size. Same thing- to some extent, now, better diet, more exercise will change that too. So, no, I don’t think it’s permanent racial reality.

  • 马俊豪

    @Josh : clap clap clap : you’ve said it all.

    Looking at the way some chinese people feel the urge to defend “Chinese people” is really making my point that this original post was written on the very point to lighten up nationalism among the masses…

  • Chicolatino

    Poor thing . She needs to get in touch with Reality.

  • Chicolatino

    @ Eric Wong

    I’m with you on this 1

    He’s pure white trash Probably the kind of guy you’re likely to meet @ wimdows too (Cheap drinks shithole).

  • Josh

    yeah, reality will be when she gets kicked around, used, and thrown out by a Western guy who looks for girls like her. I hate seeing attractive Chinese girls with ugly or bad Westerners.

  • krdr

    @Josh
    I found that Chinese people (Beijing ones) likes to help people. They helped me many times. Mostly older people. Younger ones just care about themself.

  • Eric Wong

    Kai…first of all, I am not so sure if you are Chinese, as you claimed. That picture there proves nothing, eh?

    I am glad you wrote “you’re not pausing much to see how much of an ass you’re being and how similar you’ve become to them. ” So these people are, after all, ASS. hehe. Okie, I shant be an ass anymore. Happy? Not need to implore me anymore, eh?

    Truth be told, I can be very reasonable and maintain good balance in what I say. Writing about Italy was not an attack on Italy per se, but to remind some westerners to not preaching to others from on high. Unfortunately Italy was singled out and that’s because someone mentioned her. And unfortunately, we are dealing with abnormal psychology here. It is difficult to maintain a resaonable conversation with people who are insecure, have an inferiority complex back home, and who are bent on repeating anti-Chinese sentiments., while continuing to eat hot pots.

    I repeat that I am not a Chinese citizen, nor am I a citizen of any country in the west. But when some western people who have been cultivated to use vulgar language (and you are not too far off there), I have no choice but to give it back to them as hard…not so much as in tit-for-tat…but to expose their hypocrisy. This is what I call maintaining a good balance in a very prejudiced barrage of vulgar comments.

    Whatever it is, I have yet to use a single vulgar word, unlike others including you who tried to use it, albeit in an euphemistic and feeble manner.

  • Eric Wong

    马俊豪…I am not sure if you are right about the government wanting to inflame nationalistic whatever you call it. The reality is that the standard of English amongst Chinese still has a lot of catching up to do. This is why we are not seeing any participation from Chinese. As far as I saw, the initial comments coming from whom we are supposed to believe to be Chinese were short, presumably due to a lack of ability to write well in English.

    My feeling is that the article was written by some western men, who had stayed long enough in China…

    After reading through that article and all the foregoing comments/whinnings/mud-slingings/insults which followed, my conclusion is that half the Chinese people (sub-text: Chinese men) are perceived by some western men to be uncouth, uncivilised, and uncultivated, while the other half who grew up under the same system are perceived to be worth dating or marrying. hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    So, about 50% of Chinese are at least considered quite modern and civilised. hehe

  • Rick in China

    @Eric
    RE: “It is difficult to maintain a resaonable conversation with people who are insecure, have an inferiority complex back home, and who are bent on repeating anti-Chinese sentiments.”
    Reading from an objective standpoint in that I’ve not taken part in this forum-battle thus far, I would say that your comments are the ones which indicate the behavior you’re mentioning as being “difficult to maintain a reasonable conversation with”. In fact, you are clearly the one with an inferiority complex..’tit-for-tat’ing your way into a hole. Why are you so bent on deflecting ANY and ALL criticism of generalities experienced by both foreign men, foreign women, and Chinese women regarding Chinese men?

    Certainly not all guys fit stereotypes above. I would say the same about foreign guys. In fact I think the majority of foreign guys bumming around China are wastes of skin. That being said – speaking purely on percentiles, in my experiences many women from all racial/nationality backgrounds are simply _more attracted_ to foreign men. Specifically foreign white men, but some girls “dare” to hang out with black guys too….and quite frankly, the ones I know who have had foreign boyfriends *do not go back*.

    This is not only true in China, but Chinese women from other countries also. My friend in Australia is ethnic Chinese but born and raised in Australia – she came to China for a year and, in her words, finds “mainland men disgusting”. I have some cool friends – Chinese guys – very cool guys..definitely good catches for any woman lucky enough, but these are a rare find in such a sea of peons.

    It’s ridiculous for you to take any criticism on a forum so personally, well, unless of course you fit the stereotype and such comments hurt you so much you cried yourself to sleep post-read. Your labels of anyone who disagrees with you as being an arrogant westerner on a soap-box…well, sorry to say, don’t hold up. You’re the one on a soap-box. That all being said, I hope you find a lovely Chinese man that makes you very happy.

  • 马俊豪

    @Eric : You might be right, but I wonder why would a 老外 write an article in Chinese, pretending to be a gorgeous Chinese student. It doesn’t make any sense, does it ?

    btw, I’m not chinese even though i borrow Chow Yun Fat’s character name :)

  • dave

    Eric Wonge wrote, “As expected, he did not dare to reveal from where he cometh. Anyway, this kind of cowardice is not unusual. I once had an encounter with one of these western ‘gentleman’ in MAINLAND. You nah, that fella was shivering in his pants in front of me. Face to face with me, he probably wished that his mother was around. Oh yeah, he was a head taller than me and had arms longer than a gear, hanging limply like monkey’s arms.”

    Please tell us more of this story. It sounds like you are a superhero.

  • Eric Wong

    马俊豪…hahaha…how sure are you that a laowai wrote it in Chinese and got it translated? As far as I see it, it could well have been written by a laowai in English, with some deliberate but minor errors in English grammar/spelling to lend authenticity….

    …and I know you ain’t Chinese. Nobody here seems to be, including me.

    As I said, more than a billion voices are unheard here, since most of them dun write good enough English to actively participate. Otherwise, you would be reading more hard-hitting replies than I have ever posted.

  • Eric Wong

    Rick…hahaha. Another clown. Oh my god. You call yourself objective? You nah, ya reek of racism.

    I wonder from which book of research you quoted your statistical percentile. Nothing irritates me more than BULL-SHIT but I shant cry myself to sleep over people like you.

  • Rick in China

    @Eric
    Clearly you’re not reading. I said as a percentage – of my experience. It is not I who is the clown, sir, and you’re making that very clear for everyone here to see. Reek of racism – impossible – I hate all races equally including my own. One major difference is that idiots like you make the world think that yours seems not be able to take any criticism without getting your mini-me sized ginch in a twist.

  • Eric Wong

    Rick…oh, pardon my ignorance. But I was mesmerised by your use of high sounding statistical jargon, you see.

    For the record, can you show me where in any textbook of statistics is it written that percentage has the same meaning as percentile? Is percentile a subset of perentage? Oh my good lord!

    Whatever…did I read you correctly when you wrote that you hate all races? You’d better seek pyschiatric help. You are dangerous, including to yourself.

    In contrast, I love all races, eh!

  • Rick in China

    @Eric
    When you begin to argue minor semantics as a foundation to proving some kind of point which nobody else really gets, you need to retire.

    “I can’t be a racist, I hate all races equally” is a common – well, commonly understood phrase which counters the whole “You’re a racist!” whine by soap-box heroes such as yourself. Removing the “equally” from the sentence changes the implied meaning – in fact – hating all races equally does not differ from loving all races equally, Eric. But I suppose that is also semantics, and your understanding of language is obviously far superior than others, so I’ll let you decide where to shove my explanation.

  • Eric Wong

    wow! you are a master of playing with words indeed. But unfortunately you can’t deny those racist remarks you made earlier on.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Eric Wong:

    Wow, you’re clever. Point your clever little finger over my name here, click on it, and go visit http://www.cnreviews.com which I occasionally blog for.

    You ignoring all of the relevant points of my comment towards you only to focus on my gravatar as to question my race has got to be the most boneheaded maneuver I have seen in a LONG time. What are you? A child? Was your first thought “omg, he doesn’t agree with me, he must not be Chinese!”

    Right, Eric, I just sport this “fake” gravatar because pretending to be Chinese is the latest cool thing to do. I must secretly be some other non-Chinese race but felt so utterly insecure about who I am that I had to search far and wide on the internet to find some random Chinese guy’s picture and use it to represent my presence across the internet.

    Or maybe it really is just me, in Lan Kwai Fong, in Hong Kong.

    Did you replace an understanding of Occam’s Razor with the misguided notion that your less-than-admirable attitude in what has now become the majority of your comments here is somehow making the world a better place by “exposing their hypocrisy” or “maintaining a good balance?”

    Eric, you’re not maintaining a good balance. You’re contributing to the noise and problem that perpetuates misunderstandings, resentment, and hatred between the two cultures. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t used a single vulgar word to express yourself. All it means is you knowing how to be an ass with deft prose.

    Be that it may that there are Western idiots and racists, that doesn’t excuse your own willing descent into the same douchebaggery, nor does it reflect well upon the Chinese people you think you’re fighting for. The most hard-hitting responses I’ve read from the Chinese sound nothing like what you’ve written. Your comments thus far are far closer to an insecure fenqing rant than an intelligent, constructive rebuttal to points actually relevant to the discussion. Seriously, in feeding the trolls, you’ve become one yourself.

    Eric, look in the mirror. You’re over-compensating.

    Bye.

  • fcuk da lu ren

    @Eric,

    I love guys like you. Calling me out as some fat loser westerner? Even if I was at least I am not a da lu ren. Better a hairy fat foreigner than a 3rd grade educated Chi Mate.

    You had guys “shaking in your boots?” hahha, maybe if you had about 30 guys behind you which is the only way in which chimatrons fight. I also really love how you can talk so tough online but the truth of the matter is, most chinese cower like little women when faced with prospect or a mammoth fist in the mouth.

    I’d be happy to meet you any time and place with or without gloves ;)

    @Kai,

    Thought we had come to a better understanding but if you want to lump me into the troll group that is fine, I guess I am, but I am still right :) Chinese men are like junior high kids that do not wash their hair. They really dont know much but think they have it all figured out. And they don’t know how to treat women at all for sure. Otherwise they wouldn’t be coming to us ;)

    • ABC Teenager

      What’s wrong with da lu ren? They’re not any worse than western people. They both have excellent qualities. However, you seem to represent one of the many dregs of western society, while Dave does the same for the Chinese.

      Also, I suppose you guys can’t treat your women, because I see western gals flocking to Chinese guys.

    • Daphie

      I dont understand why people react on this desperate idiot – i bet if you know where he is from you will laugh your ass off.
      Anyway i shall not waste time here in this thread, it is just a fake or stupid article being discussed by people who have too much time.

      • Daphie

        Sorry by desperate idiot I meanFcuk Daluren.

      • Daphie

        Sorry by desperate idiot I mean this guy :
        fcuk da lu ren

  • Eric Wong

    Kai, you’re writing to yourself or about yourself?

    I didn’t want to reply to your earlier post about the reason for Chinese spending more time than Americans on the net…and your other BS. That probably got your head swollen thinking that your sermon imparted profound wisdom.

    From that piece of rubbish, I concluded you knew precious little about the Chinese people.

    I have seen too many of your type: basically insecure, socially inept, and introverted. These kind of people speak very loudly on sites like this, just like you and a few others…but take them out from their little closets, and we’ll see a bunch of monkey-arms swinging cowards, crying mama.

  • fcuk da lu ren

    @Kai,

    Let me take this for you. Eric you are a loser, your gf probably left you for a white guy.

    In a few minutes you are going to post a long rant about how I hide behind words blah blah blah. Its ok though, you can cry. Let it out

  • Eric Wong

    fcuk…you want a fight? Hear! hear! Don’t try and show me your martial arts, please. I can defeat you with my words here alone, but that said, I can understand why you therefore wish to resort to physical violence. That, after all, is part of western “gentleman”‘s behaviour and confirms all the hypocrisy which I have been trying to get some of you to admit to. But alas! I am talking to people who are bent on thinking that their backyards don’t stink.

    By the way, I know of a lot of western women who prefers Asian men to Western ones…I am sure you are aware of that, unless you, as usual, choose to deny it as vehemently as you feebly can, replete with vulgarities.

  • Eric Wong

    Kai: Let me take this for you. Eric you are a loser, your gf probably left you for a white guy.

    hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa>>>>>><<<<<<<

    No, it was a white gal who left a white guy for a black man

  • Kai

    @ fcuk da lu ren:

    LoL, our understanding is that your name and comments are intentionally inflammatory (which is what trolls do), and I know you’re not going to change. I’m not going to beat my head into the wall trying to wrestle a troll into submission. The only reason I’ve initially entertained Eric Wong was because his first few comments actually seemed mature and reasonable. Who would’ve thought someone mentioning Italy as a place where people often sunbathe without anyone giving it much thought was going to change Eric Wong into such a stark-raving lunatic? I think both you and I can agree his panties got into a mighty big twist seemingly out of nowhere and now he’s on a misguided crusade to set everyone in their place. Apparently, that includes demanding that I change my racial identity.

    Like me, you must be astounded by how furiously he’s digging himself into hole after hole. Case in point:

    Eric Wong: I didn’t want to reply to your earlier post about the reason for Chinese spending more time than Americans on the net…and your other BS.

    Forbes: Chinese Surpasses U.S. in Internet Use

    SEOmoz/CNNIC: China: Ten Things You Should Know About an Online Superpower

    I may not know everything there is to know about Chinese people, but one thing is for sure: I know more than this wanker.

    Oh, and I think “BS” falls into the category of “vulgarities,” right?

    Anyway, let’s just ignore the guy.

  • Eric Wong

    Kai: hope you will be a little more correct with your grammar. Reason and Because don’t go together. I usually ignore minor typo errors, I made them too, but not this kind, eh?

    That said, I see not need for those links. Are you trying to wriggle out of where thou has erred? Please read again. I said:

    about the REASON for Chinese spending more time than Americans on the net…and your other BS

    Hence, I was refering to the REASON you offered as concrete evidence of your ignorance. But do yourself a favour and re-read the rest of the rubbish written by you, and after that, come up with better excuses, if you must.

    That part on internet usage was not all I wanted to say, eh?

    Having said that, I know that, unlike you, I am mature and reasonable. Can you tell me something which I don’t know?

    Naturally, when people like you start getting too smart by half, I am left no choice but to put you back into your hole.

    • A.B. Chinese Teenager

      Your grammar is atrocious, exponentially more so than his. Let’s refrain from ad hominem attacks.

  • Ms_Chief

    Why would this girl want to sunbathe in a bikini if she’s afraid of becoming a ‘dark-skinned granny’ by walking to work? The article isn’t consistent which leads me to think that it’s a load of b0ll0cks.

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