Stories

Japanese & Chinese Students Fight In Shanghai

by on Friday, October 24, 2008 333 comments comments

A large crowd of Chinese students in Shanghai protest Japanese students who beat up two Chinese students in Shanghai.

From Tianya, “Shanghai International Studies University: Japanese students and Chinese students fought violently” (no longer accessible):

At present, the police, including the special police present, have already dispatched 10 police vehicles to maintain order, and the gathered crowd has just dispersed.

On October 20, 2008, about 10 P.M., over ten Japanese students were getting drunk and causing a disturbance in the school square. Their noise could be heard from every corner of the campus, which made the boys living on the 9th floor of the boy’s dormitory extremely upset. To protest against the Japanese, the 9th floor students sprinkled some water on the Japanese, resulting in the ten Japanese directly charging into the dorm to beat the two boys so severely that they had to be sent to the hospital.

After the beating, the 10 Japanese immediately fled the dorm room, and the students who heard the news immediately rushed downstairs to confront the Japanese students. At the time, the situation was chaotic. The police immediately dispatched special police to escort and evacuate over 10 Japanese from the school. Not only was the square swarming with patriotic students, I estimate there were approximately several hundred people. Over 10 police vehicles came one by one to maintain order, with everyone standing around watching each other for about 20 minutes.

Under the direction of several students, the students sang the national anthem, marching to the international guest house [the dormitory for international/foreign/study abroad students] to continue their protest against Japanese people. However, the police blocked off the entrance to the international guest house. At this time, we could see Koreans also hanging up their Korean flag. As the student protests increased, there were some foreigners upstairs in the international guest house (it was too dark to see clearly) throwing glass bottles down, causing the situation to escalate…only after the person in charge of the school immediately put forward that the first three students who knew what happened come forth and communicate with the Japanese did the university students calm down and behave themselves.

Over 2 hours later, the matter finally quiet down…at the time there were people using cameras and video cameras to film, which will probably be uploaded onto the internet soon.

Note: The above translated post was reformatted from the original into separate paragraphs. When this incident happened, many BBS forums quickly deleted every post. Originally, I had decided not to do it because it was impossible to get any information and comments before it was deleted. However, the above original post and following comments from different BBS were available for awhile the next day for me to gather the information. Other netizens and students give more details in the comments. – Fauna.

Chinese students talk outside about Japanese students who attacked two Chinese schoolboys.

Comments from Tianya (no longer accessible):

Fuck, throwing a fit on China’s own territory, they must be tired of living…

From the school BBS:

First of all, it happened in Shanghai. Every one knows that Shanghai people can argue until their nose touch but they will not physically fight. Second, in our kind of our humanities school, there are naturally only about two and a half boys, so for them to be surround and fight a Japanese person was not easy as it is!! As such, this situation really let me see things in a new light!!~

What had happened is this: Yesterday, October 20, 2008, I heard a group of Japanese and Koreans being really loud in the sunken school square as I was returning at 10 p.m. However, I did not think much about it, because I am already used to it. I do not know what they are always so happy about but every week there are a few days where this group of little Japanese [小日本 is a little derogatory] are messing around, singing and dancing.

It was getting very late and it was still very noisy even after midnight. It turns out they were brazenly barbecuing on the square downstairs!! The boys on the 9th floor were now unhappy, so they asked them to not be so loud, that people upstairs were resting. But they would not listen and continued making a lot of noise downstairs! One of the chivalrous boys on the 9th floor could not take it anymore, and on behalf of the Chinese people, he threw he threw an angry beer bottle down. The Japanese devils flew off the handle [became pissed], daring to go up our dorms to the 9th floor and beating up our compatriot, and then going back down to continue eating and drinking~!

This definitely pissed off us schoolmates and a group of us furiously went down and surrounded that group of Japanese people…and in the end…

We are peace-loving Chinese people, who definitely do not support violence. However, the arrogance of this group of Japanese was plain to see. I am not saying that all Japanese, but most of them have poor characters, everyday riding their Harley-Davidson motorcycles showing off their engines, hurting my ears every time they pass by, drinking and causing trouble, skipping classes (I have seen their attendance forms. There are 20 students in the class, all the Japanese are absent almost every class, the type who only go to 2 or 3 classes the whole semester), each and every one of the boys wearing eyeliner, they are just not very likable.

The Sichuan earthquake had given me some good feelings with regards to the Japanese, but this incident made once again despise young Japanese scum to the highest degree. I had already read reports about our fellow Chinese students being insulted while studying in Japan, This group of Japanese deserved to suffer in China, so this incident will also let them babies have a taste what it is like to be bullied outside of their country, and besides it was them who were wrong! They absolutely deserved to be beaten!!

I will also politely advise those Japanese kids who went upstairs to attack others: You should have thought carefully about where the fuck you guys were before going upstairs. If you are coming here to study, then be honest students, do not cause trouble, and Japanese people especially should not cause trouble in China.

I had looked upon these international students with welcoming/friendly eyes. I thought no matter if they are Japanese or Korean, them coming to China must be because they love China, because they love Shanghai. It was only until last year that I realized they came to China just for the price difference [because it is cheaper to live in China]!! No matter how expensive Shanghai is, it is not as expensive as their own country. This group of useless children [who waste their family's fortune] go to the bars drinking every day, and our school even has someone who drives a Benz sports car! They have gotten to a point where I can no longer look at them.

Also, the character of those Shanghai International Studies University international students? What character? Running red lights, accosting girls, speeding try to accost girls. When I was at Häagen-Dazs, there was even someone who would try to leave without paying. Last year, there was even someone who was kicked out of school for threatening people!

In contrast, some international students from poor countries have very good character. Their family financial situations are not very good, and the living standards in their countries are bad, so they usually all come on Chinese government scholarships. These students from Nepal, Nigeria and Venezuela are all much better than those from developed countries. One could learn nothing talking with those from developed countries. They can only teach you how to say “FUCK” in different languages! So uninteresting~

I am going to stop complaining here. All in all, I applaud those the two and half boys! Even though the Japanese were being loud, it was not right for us to throw the beer bottles~ But if they beat our schoolmates, you guys surrounding them and beating them up was good! We cannot let us Chinese people be bullied by foreigners in our own country!! Next time something like this happens, call me. MLGBD~ Beat to death those damn little Japanese!!!

PS. I also heard this story from others [hearsay], so some details may not be true, but me hearing them being noisy is true, that the Japanese behave poorly on campus is true, and that two of our schoolmates were beaten is true! ~Damn little Japanese, this business is not finished~

Shanghai police block off a road after Chinese students protest against Japanese students.

Dog fucked, should they not at least be detained for attacking people?! It is not as if they are embassy members, there have no diplomatic immunity.

Fuck, this bitch school dares to protect the Japanese~~~

Why did the special police [SWAT?] escort the little Japanese who attacked other people out? What kind of logic is this??
Why were the Korean and other international students who participated in causing trouble not held responsible?
Why not give the Chinese students an explanation? Dammit, we can forget about us being bullied outside of our country, but we have to put up with being bullied in our own country too???
There must be a reasonable explanation…
Why!?!?! In our country, at our school, there can actually be such arrogant foreigners???
Dammit, what logic is this?? Are our students so hopeless, or is it a problem with our leadership??

Students~~~Fighting people requires tactics~~~
With hundreds of you surrounding them, of course they have to dispatch the police…
Wait for this to pass, and everyone stay still. Just ten of you is enough to beat those few Japanese. As long as they are in school, there will be opportunities to teach them a lesson. Avoid this getting out of control.

Kill all Japanese pigs! [x12]

Bring attention to what the attackers look like so the entire school can recognize them as being wanted. Anytime those bastards dare show their face, they will be beaten and…

So angry!! So speechless!!
Ten Japanese dare charge into the boys dorm to beat people? What the hell were the other Chinese students present doing? Is this still a boy’s dorm, with everyone else only knowing how to stand by watching Japanese people beat Chinese people…?
Forget about the police, I don’t know what to say about Chinese police protecting foreigners like this.

After 100-200 years, after so many revolutions, after sacrificing millions of people, Chinese people are still second-class citizens on their own land.

If those who were beaten were Han students [Han is the Chinese ethnic majority], this matter would be left unresolved.

I wrote this here to be an proof of what I had predicted.

You motherfucker, would it kill you to not push for national secession at this time?

Why is China’s police so mean to the Chinese, but act like grandsons when encountering foreigners?

You really don’t understand
It is only because they are in China that they throw a fit.
Put them in the United States or Russia,
the Japanese would be as well-behaved as grandsons.

Police comrades, normally I never see you as active as you were last night…I say, could you have simply arrived just a little later?
Those two Chinese students are pretty useless/cowardly. This matter has 80-90% chance of being unresolved…

A large group of Chinese students sing the national anthem outside the international student dorms in Shanghai.

Seeing that so many schoolmates all posted…I will also write about what I saw and heard…

Last night around 9-10pm, the three of us were in our room watching “Flood.” After watching half of it, the electricity stopped, but was restored quickly. However, I no longer wanted to watch, so I copied the “KONAN #12″ from my PSP to my computer and unexpectedly it required half an hour. Bored, I walked out onto the balcony to take a look.

I saw a group of little Japanese downstairs making noise, even singing “happy birthday” but their English was lousy…

Our room has a flashlight…very powerful…can shine very far…and just as I was about to shine them, someone downstairs on the 4th or 5th floor threw a water bottle at them.

The Japanese people started screaming, “if you have the guts, come down.” A brother on the 9th floor started to fight back. The funniest thing was that the Japanese screamed a four word Japanese phrase, we did not understand, and the 9th floor responded with “fuck your mother’s cunt,” which was also four words.

Then the Japanese people started cursing, “fucking China.”

The brothers upstairs responded, “don’t worry, China still has Taiwan, this is the mainland.” Everyone on the balconies were 囧 jiong…

Then the arguing became more and more intense. Four Japanese guys charged up, supposedly brought up by a traitor who entered school in 07 studying German, wearing red clothes, yellow hair, wears glasses. Whether this information is accurate needs to be confirmed. We all figured that even just one floor of us could easily crush them so we did not think much about it.

Then the 10 something Japanese downstairs charged towards the dorms. At this time, I heard the loud noise of a door being kicked and hit. We realized we need to go up to help our own compatriots.

Very quickly the 9th floor was filled with people.

First were 7-8 little Japanese charged up to the 9th floor, indiscriminately attacking any Chinese they say. They did not even ask if they were the person who was just arguing with them. Downstairs came up two brave Chinese guys, bringing with them two metal tubes. 2 against 8. The security guard came to stop the fight and the little Japanese even started attacking the security guard along with the other Chinese students. The security guard’s clothes were torn.

When the little Japanese saw that more and more of us were coming, they hid into the elevator. Security guard uncle said, “There is nothing we can do in the school. I cannot let you guys fight. If we were out in society fighting, I would definitely help you guys.” After seeing the elevator head down, all of us ran down the stairs to the first floor.

But now there were too many people, and we could not distinguish who was Japanese. At this point, a little Japanese shouted, “Chinese dogs, if you have the guts, come.” I did not see clearly who shouted it, I only knew from which direction it came from. Soon we found the group of Japanese people.

We all surrounded them. At this time, 120 and 110 [emergency medical and police numbers] have all already arrived. 120 took our two injured Chinese schoolmates back to the hospital. 110 protected the Japanese people, keeping us outside.

Just like this, 4-5 police cars came and escorted the little Japanese away. One Japanese who had drank too much was also sent to the hospital.

Throughout all of this we were screaming fuck Japan, fuck your mothers, etc…the entire school was very magnificent…I estimate over 80% of the guys had come downstairs…

Seeing as how they did not even give a single apology, and were so arrogant, students who could not accept the situation shouted, “Rush the international guest house!”

So the big team [crowd] again changed to rushing the international guest house.

People started yelling, fuck Japan, little Japanese, fuck your mother, etc. One by one the lights in the international guest house flickered on.

There were foreigners upstairs taking pictures (this was indeed embarrassing), and people from other countries were sticking their country’s flags on their windows, afraid we would charge up there and accidentally cause them harm.

Then a water bottle flew down.

The crowd moved back to the square behind the fountain.

Then a glass cup flew down and shattered right on my foot. Fortunately, there was no injury. Had it hit my head, I would have gone and caused problems. And then the conflict would only get worse.

School officials and police try to calm down an angry mob of Chinese students.

Well done, Shanghai students!!
ZF, stop paying so much respect to foreign beasts, this is not the late Qing Dynasty! This is the new China’s territory!! You must do something!!!

Fuck! Embarrassing! If those Japanese dared to do that in our school, they would have long ago been sent to the hospital!

From the school BBS:

Fellow students, hello! I am Hou Wang from the Department of German, and my dorm room is A911. I witnessed the entire incident that moved so many people’s hearts. What fellow student, “Mantou”, had posted above already covers most of it. I just want to add some details:

1. When the little Japanese rushed into our dorm rooms, they actually brought weapons with them, which were cooking pot lids. I thought a bunch of Japanese chefs had rushed up. Because our room A911 is right across from the elevator, that group of Japanese dogs starting hitting our door first. Actually they had hit every door on the left side of 9th floor. They were shouting, “FUCK CHINA” while banging on the doors. Because I was busy playing WOW, I didn’t open the door right away. By the time I had opened the door, the Japanese dogs had already started biting [attacking] people. By the time us brothers were about to beat them up, we were held back by the security guards. Actually, quite a few of us brothers still got in quite a few kicks. Ding! They ran away like wild dogs. (But there was one crazy dog that still did not learn his lesson. Us brothers were not happy, so we chased him down the stairs to the first floor.)

2. When we were in the front of the international guest house, there were actually already many journalists who had arrived. Their are very nimble! But that group of security guards would not open the door. At this moment, a man with a strong northeastern accent rushed over and said to the security guard, “You motherfuckers, open the door!” The security guard wanted to be “niu bi” and loudly replied, “Don’t even think about causing trouble!” The northeastern man was not happy, and pointed at the security guard’s nose yelling “Fuck your mother, are you a Chinese person or not?” The security guard immediately withered. With nothing to say, he could only allow himself to be painfully told off by the northeastern man. The security guard could only tuck tail and run away.

3. When we were singing the national anthem, many Chinese compatriots loudly signed that it was the first time seeing so many clothes-wearing Japanese dogs. I agreed with them. The Japanese dogs have strange values of sex. If it is not abusive, then it is a group of people. I heard they broke the 500 people having sex in one place Guinness world record. You tell me what difference this is with dogs.

4. Regarding the traitor problem. As a student of the Department of German, I feel disgraced, very disgraced. How can there be this kind of schoolmate, living with dogs?

Finally I want to declare that everything written above is the truth, nothing fabricated. There may be some discrepancies with some details, but the main part about the incident is correct.

Police try to maintain order as a large crowd of Chinese students protest Japanese students in Shanghai.

A bunch of stupid kids. The next time something like this happens, directly go beat them up. Once the police come, nothing can be done.
Do not gather around and stupidly sing the national anthem. Has this country ever loved you? All of the violent machines in this country are only used against you.

This is so Shanghai. If this was in the Northeast, however many little Japanese dared to enter the guy’s dorms vertically would have to come out horizontally!

Are there actually people who are saying good things about that Shanghai group of students??? I think they are just a bunch of trash…they have no brains nor guts. If they had the guts, those few police and security guards would not have been able to hold them back when the fight started. They were holding you back because doing so is what feeds them, it is merely a formality, so if there is a problem in their department later it is easier for them to say they tried, but several men held them back. If several guys rushed hard, I am sure they would not really make it difficult for you…

If you do no have guts but have brains, that is okay too. If you are afraid of being in public, just get 50-60 guys, do not be nervous, and pretend as if there is nothing to trick the little Japanese to come out, go to a remote place, beat them up, and then leave. Do not make a big fuss, the bigger it is, the harder it is to do something, and then you guy will not have a fight. In the end, this way is also easier for the school to deal with, they can pretend it was just an ordinary fight between students.

Now they can only get 200-300 people to go surround the international guest house, and sing the national anthem, and dragging in the country’s glory? Now the matter has risen to the political level, and now the government needs to deal with it, and in the end there will be no outcome. In the public opinion, the little Japanese became the weak and innocent party. Aside from yelling “fuck” to make ourselves feel better, we will not even be able to touch the little Japanese’s fingers [will not get a chance to beat them up]…and we are still being ostentatious? And still think it is a good idea to sing the national anthem?? No ability, embarrassed yourselves, and you still want to make a fool of yourselves…and you blame the JC for not letting you guys enter the international guest house? The JC’s attitude is the same as the government’s attitude. If their brains are functioning normally, of course they wouldn’t let you guys pass.

With this becoming so big…I bet if those little Japanese’s brains are still working, they will definitely and immediately let the embassy handle this, and then return to their country. You think they would come back to school to wait for your guys’ revenge?? Take a shower and go to bed.

I am outraged!! People who deserve the most blame are those few Japanese people, but rather those Chinese students who just stood around enthusiastically watching but didn’t have the courage to do anything! Really fucking embarrassing!!! Not helping their own compatriots who were being beaten by the Japanese, but still pretending to care by singing the national anthem!!! Really pisses me off!!! If this was outside the country and there were no Chinese to help out, then fine, but this was in a campus in China!!! And it was a boy’s dormitory!!! All of the men in that building are fucking not men, only having the ability to shout/argue, really sickens me to death!!! I don’t blame those students who got beat for not being able to fight back, after all they were just students, but that was one entire building of Chinese people!!!

The “FF” [a pun on "angry youth" that means "angry shit"] above, stop “pretending you could have done this better.” When it really happens, you guys would not be much better. Heh heh, as God as my witness, I have seen this kind of thing twice. Han fighting Uighur, Chinese students fought Japanese students, and if you dare make it a big incident, beating those people [Uighurs and Japanese], you will immediately experience the kungfu of our country’s riot police’s. They can beat you so hard that your mom will not recognize you. Those FF who don’t believe me can go try, who does not know how to pretend to be cooll on the internet?

Fuck. What were you guys thinking? Go and beat them first, then talk. In fact, everyone go up!!! I can’t believe you let them run away. An apology [from them] is fucking useless.

Police standing guard outside the university foreign student dormitories.

Comments on PCPop:

Beat the Japanese dogs to death, then kill the Koreans. There is no excuse for them to be throwing fits on Chinese people’s land.

USA says: Fuck, I will beat whoever I want
Russia says: Fuck, I will beat whoever criticizes me
China says: Hello everyone, whoever hits me, I will condemn and protest.

They actually allowed the little Japanese to attack people and then escape? If this thing happened in my school, the little Japanese would all have to be carried out! This school’s [Shanghai International Studies University] students are too worthless!

This group of dog-fucked [Japanese], better not let me see them. I am an expect of San Da [Chinese boxing].

Shanghai police block entrance to the international student dorms.

Comments from Tom:

Useless…a disgrace, such a disgrace…

Rational my ass, rational! They are already bullying us on our doorsteps and you still want to talk about what is wrong with China today? Only know how to protest? What use is protesting?

Throwing stuff from upstairs, they deserved getting beat up.

Seeing so many people saying Shanghai students are bad, that they could not beat Japanese people, is truly lamentable. Honestly, I am glad the majority of college students were rational, otherwise, yesterday’s Japanese international students would have already gone to another world. or the Japanese might already died. You guys want people to die, want to take out the Japanese, but at what cost for our country? There are actually people who are saying that student’s rationality is an embarrassment, truly no longer distinguishing right from wrong.

I am a student from Shanghai International Studies University. Even though others don’t think much of us, as a student in this school, I am clear about what happened. But those Japanese international students, they simply are not here to study. The international students in Shanghai University of Finance and Economics across from us came to China to study. What happened this time can only be said to have intensified long-standing conflicts. Plus, they were too arrogant. We are how old, but they are almost 30, and the police still protected them.

Police and security prevent the angry protestors from entering the foreign student dorms.

Comments from Mop (no longer accessible):

After seeing the pictures, I had yet another type of thought: There are still a lot of people who just like watching the excitement.

Japanese beating Chinese, Chinese singing the national anthem…fuck…what difference is this from being the “sick man of the east?”

Strongly request that these dog-fucked Japanese people be expelled out of China.

Something like this happens and there are still people here scolding their own compatriots?
Does it feel good letting foreigners see this kind of joke!
If you guys are so “niu bi,” go attack the Japanese embassy!
Those who do not support their own compatriots should avoid making sarcastic remarks.
Always discriminating based upon locality…
…have your brains been flooded with water?
Would China being broken into pieces make you all happy!!!

Shanghaiese are fucking well known for having the softest bones in the whole world.
If this had happened in Shenzhen, in the northeast, anywhere but Shanghai…
…could the little Japanese been able to go up to the 9th floor and severely hurt two people before the running away? Fucking Shanghai trash.
Even if you’re a ‘wai di ren,” just staying there too long will infect you…
Today’s Shanghai is the same as it was back when it was colonized…this is my feeling in Shanghai…
But fortunately next month I can finally leave this fucking place…You NB Shanghainese can go lick foreigner assholes.

Those who were not present can stop damn farting here…I go to that school in Hongkou, and participated in the demonstration, and the police vehicles were blocking the door of the international guest house! If you want to rush the hotel, you have to get pass the police first! Moreover, my room was on the fourth floor. When things broke out on the 9th floor, there were no sounds down there. You think we would not want to help? There are some people who unjustly say if this happened where they are, they would do this or that, would you just go ahead and kill Japanese people and not take legal responsibility? It is easy to say, but when you actually encounter it, would you really go up and take out the little Japanese? I can tell you right now that they are still in the international guest house and those of you with big mouths, if you really have the ability, then you can go ahead and get the little Japanese’ heads!

A police officer tries to maintain order.

The current Chinese government treats Chinese people like dogs, and treat foreigners like gods. Whenever something happens, the police will definitely first protect the foreigners. Actually, if they were ruthless/hateful and let 1-2 “niubi” foreigners die, then they would no longer dare to bully/take advantage of Chinese people.

Japanese people bow before the Yasukuni Toilet [pun, "shrine" sounds similar to "toilet" in Chinese] every day, and our shitty government only knows how to “sternly but fairly” protest. One word: Inept!

What a good opportunity (to beat Japanese) you had missed. When the Japanese were going up to the 9th floor, what were all the Chinese students doing? Just do those Japanese in, first vent hatred. Then Japan will protest. Negotiate, cut off relations, war breaks out, Japan is destroyed. Everyone who participated will become national heroes.

You guys could not defeat 10 little Japanese. Fuck, did you all grow up eating shit? You could not call more brothers to come help you? Fuck, what have you guys been doing in school? ~You bunch of cowards. Next time you see these Japanese again, just beat them to death. Dammit, just do it to avenge our past compatriots!~

Can those netizens in this post attacking the Shanghainese please remember, a post that was originally attacking Japanese devils, has become a post attacking Shanghainese people because of you guys. Are you guys trying to help the Japanese change the subject? Is attacking Shanghainese more important than attacking Japanese devils? Must Chinese people always fight themselves? Are Chinese people really this ugly? Will Chinese people never unite?

Damn, if this had happened in the Northeast, even our kindergarten kids could drown them to death in piss!! Those deserve-to-be-fucked-by-dogs Japanese bastards…

For something like this to happen in Shanghai means Shanghai people have made Chinese people lose face. Just scolding you is letting you off easy, you useless things. Do you understand that you Shanghainese are not worthy of making China lose face? Not afraid of the whole country scolding the Shanghainese for being cowards, anyone with any worth just go take out [kill] those Japanese who attacked others. Otherwise, any “Shanghai idiots” thinking about raising their heads can just keep on dreaming!

The foreign student dorms light up as foreign students inside wonder why there are many angry Chinese students outside.

Some international students hang up flags to show they are not Japanese. Others throw bottles at the Chinese students downstairs.

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  • Rick in China

    @Kai RE: “No matter how Japan’s former prime minister rationalized paying his respects to the very leaders responsible for massacring Chinese”

    The dead, the war criminals being a small number when compared to the majority of the dead buried at the cemetery, can’t possibly be expected to be physically moved in order to allow remembrance of one and not the other. Or do you expect no remembrance towards any of Japan’s military dead?

    RE: “There is nothing wrong with being proud of yourself, your people, and your country. But there IS something wrong when you start becoming arrogant, looking down upon others, going as far as diminishing them, using racist terms, being racist, and whitewashing historical facts.”

    I can’t figure out if you’re referring to Japanese or Chinese in this statement. :)

  • Chua

    I’m an overseas Chinese (Hua Qiao) here in the Philippines and fortunately we don’t experience here at my school. However recently there has also been an extremely big inflow of Korean students and I can say most of them are extremely rude. At the streets they bump into me as if no one was there and they keep on complaining how stupid the country is. They think of themselves high and discriminate against the locals. I also have friends in China and they said the same thing.

    If the same thing happened here I doubt the foreigners would get out unscratched. If the Japanese just shouted foul words and I’d probably just do the same thing to be fair. But if there’s already physical violence, well, it’s sushi time :D

    I already have experienced discrimination too in Japan so I do my very best to be friendly and accomodating to foreigners because I know how it feels to be out of place. But of course you should also do your part in respecting us.

  • Chua

    I would just like to add something more hehe. I also think it’s more because on how the Chinese education system goes. Similar to Korea, there’s always that slight implication to bring hatred towards the Japanese.

    I was born and raised here and studied in a Taiwanese School in the Philippines and there are some instances where the teacher would say how evil the Japanese are. We even had an exhibit focusing on JAPANESE ATROCITIES on WW2 with complete sets of PICTURES. If that’s happening on some taiwanese school here in Manila, what more back in China :)

    Just want to share it

  • krdr

    @Rick
    In People’s daily I didn’t find apology for deaths. In Independent article is stated: “Still, his remarks fell short of demands made by victims that Abe clearly acknowledge that the wartime military forced the women into prostitution.”

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Rick:

    By all accounts I’m familiar with, it is not just a cemetery, it is the Yasukuni War Shrine that honors 14 WW2 war criminals.

    Come on, man. More importantly, there are less controversial and more diplomatic ways to honor the 2.5 million Japanese that died fighting a war for their country. Case in point:

    Japanese prime minister Yasuo Fukuda refuses to visit Second World War shrine.

    While Mr Fukuda’s most recent predecessors, Shinzo Abe and Junichiro Koizumi, visited Tokyo’s controversial Yasukuni shrine, where 14 Class A war criminals who were executed are remembered, the prime minister joined Emperor Akihito, whose father Hirohito surrendered exactly 63 years earlier, at a national memorial ceremony at which a one-minute silence was observed.

    “The nation inflicted significant damage and pain on many countries, especially on people in Asian countries,” said Mr Fukuda.

    “Here I express, on behalf of the nation, deep remorse and humble condolences for all of the people who fell victim.”

    I hope my fellow Chinese will take note of that, as well as people who seem to think there is no alternative method for remembering the dead.

    Furthermore, note even in the same article…

    Yoshie Shiratori, 34, an office worker, said that the notorious Rape of Nanjing and the Japanese military’s enslavement of women in frontline brothels across Asia were “lies and propaganda” and that her country fought only a “defensive war”.

    She added: “I feel proud of the people who are remembered here because they were defending our country, our national identity and our culture.”

    When stuff like that reaches Chinese people’s ears, it just causes problems. I believe those are minority, extreme right-wing views in Japan, and I implore Chinese people to acknowledge that, but it is much harder when a head of state does visits a war shrine.

    Things like this need to be viewed in context and the context here dictates that a head of state responsible for representing his nation, his constituency, and paying heed to international diplomacy must consider how his actions may be interpreted. Yes, Yasukuni honors not just the 14 war criminals, but are there no other ways to honor the dead than to visit Yasukuni?

    I reiterate that many Japanese have been appropriately contrite and apologetic, but yes, there are those who have not been.

    I can’t figure out if you’re referring to Japanese or Chinese in this statement. :)

    Obviously both and for anyone of any race/nation.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Rebecca MacKinnon in Hong Kong before (fantastic Chinese). This is anther good article that presents a good amount of information surrounding the Yasukuni war shrine issue: Rebecca MacKinnon: Japan’s prime minister visits a war shrine

  • http://deleted Benxin

    Singing “national anthem” after two students were beaten by Japanese.What are left in the students’ heads is only shit.

  • Rick in China

    @Kai RE: “14 WW2 war criminals.”
    You make my point for me. Reading your link, “The shrine is dedicated to the spirits of about 2.5 million Japanese who have died fighting for the emperor since the mid-1800s. Eighty percent are from World War II. Fourteen were convicted as “class A” war criminals by a special Tokyo war crimes tribunal administered by the allied powers.”

    It’s dedicated to ~2.5million dead. 14 are criminals. Acknowledged as criminals who were executed. My point here is that it is part of their religion and belief system, and it’s not possible to separate the 14 from the 2.5 million…sure, there may be “alternatives” as you suggest, but there are also “alternatives” to say, demonstrations interfering in the public’s daily life, should they be stopped?

    I’m glad that the new prime minister sacrificed his personal (perhaps..anyways) beliefs and pride in order to try to make further amends to the issue, taking the high road. That being said – I digress – and would like to point to all the “THEY NEVER APOLOGIZED” crowd to actually do some research before they make these kind of claims and spread misinformation inciting further hate.

  • Sexy Fat Buddha

    @ Kai – i was kind of being tongue in cheek with that one…

    But really.. these kids spend WAY too much time studying. It’s really not healthy to study ten hours a day.

  • lurker

    Its sad that this stuff gets blown up into a nationalistic situation. But I guess its bound to happen with the victim syndrome that still prevails in the Chinese mindset.

    This is basically a fight between two groups. Two groups, not two countries.

    Not to condone violence but if you can’t beat drunk guys that you threw a beer bottle at then you should not call other people to join in the fight you just lost. If you start a conflict but can’t finish it then you can’t blame anyone but yourself. At least run away so they don’t catch you and beat you up.

    Come on. These guys are drunk. Maybe just a little drunk but the sober person is supposed to have the advantage right? If you can’t fight them then run away. How hard is it to run away from drunk people?

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Sexy Fat Buddha:

    What makes you think the students involved were studying 10 hours a day or whatever? Maybe they just wanted a reasonable amount of quiet at that hour of the night and the Japanese kids weren’t respectful of it. There’s no need to characterize the Chinese kids as being nerds or whatever. The bottom line is respect for peace and quiet in an academic setting.

    @ Rick in China:

    No, I think you’re confusing the issue. Remembering the dead is not the problem. Visiting a WAR SHRINE that has a long-standing and deserved reputation for denying or downplaying the nation of Japan’s past atrocities is the problem and it is not just a problem in the eyes of Chinese alone, but for much of the Asian countries affected in WW2 as well as the United States.

    Read the other article I linked:

    Q: Why is Koizumi’s visit there a hot button issue in Japan, in Asia, in the West?

    MacKinnon: The visit by any Japanese prime minister to Yasukuni at any time has always been extremely controversial. So controversial, in fact, that only one of Mr. Koizumi’s predecessors actually visited the shrine officially as prime minister on August 15th. Yasuhiro Nakasone went in 1985, the 40th anniversary of Japan’s surrender. The outcry both at home and abroad was so strong that no prime minister has done it since.

    Because war criminals are enshrined there, people in Asia and elsewhere who fell victim to the policies carried out by the Japanese armies in World War II believe that the prime minister’s visit to the shrine sends an ominous signal. They believe it shows that Japan’s leadership is not sorry for atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers around Asia. China has already criticized Japan for not adequately apologizing for the deaths of millions of Chinese. In both China and South Korea, anger runs high over a new Japanese textbook which many feel whitewashes actions like slaughter, torture, and the use of comfort women. They feel that a Yasukuni shrine visit is yet another example of Japan’s refusal to admit its former “sins.” Chinese and South Korean officials have expressed concerns about growing Japanese militarism.

    In Japan, there are those like Foreign Minister Makiko Tanaka who opposed a visit because it would create more diplomatic headaches and long-term problems with the neighbors than it was worth. Others, like the Buddhist-backed Komeito party, opposed it on anti-violent religious grounds. Then there are others who, for various reasons, believe in pacifism or are concerned about the political leanings of many nationalist and right-wing groups who have been among the most vocal and visible supporters of Koizumi’s Yasukuni visit.

    In the West, the issue is more distant, but many Westerners look at the Yasukuni visit controversy as a symptom of how Japan has or hasn’t dealt with issues of responsibility and guilt over what happened during World War II. They compare the way that people in Japan think and talk about their country’s actions during World War II to Germany, and how it has dealt with horrors of its wartime past. The two countries have handled their wartime histories very differently, and this is the subject of several fascinating books.

    Notice that the main points of this issue is how such an act is perceived AND how such an act affects the visitor’s OFFICE. Koizumi was not visiting in the capacity of an private individual for his private beliefs in his private time (Shinto is also no longer the state religion in Japan).

    He was visiting as the Prime Minister of Japan.

    As a HEAD OF STATE, such an act sends strong messages and any head of state must be sensitive to that. It is part of their job description. They are, like it or not, acting on behalf of their country and that country’s people. This is also why George W. Bush catches so much flak for his actions as well. If you can understand the dynamic with George W. Bush, then you ought to be able to understand the dynamic for Koizumi.

    It is CORRECT to point out that many Japanese have been appropriately contrite/apologetic about the past, but it is also RELEVANT and LEGITIMATE to point out that Koizumi’s visits to the Yasukuni War Shrine is controversial and sends controversial messages to observers.

    Read the rest of the CNN article. To me, the bottom line is that there is no excuse for a Japanese head of state to NOT be aware of the political fallout and backlash from visiting the Yasukuni War Shrine. If they choose to do so, as they are free to do so like Koizumi, they simply have to accept the consequences. Those consequences include enraging a lot of Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and other interested parties who have the right to remember the past and fear for what an act might symbolize or lead to.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    I forgot to add:

    It is foolish to argue that a Japanese head of state be allowed to visit a symbolism-laden “war shrine” and that everyone else should just feel fine and dandy about it. The act of visiting Yasukuni is not just about 14 war criminals and whether or not they can be “separated” from the war shrine or not. Yasukuni is much more than that in the eyes of so many people. Trying to say “it is just a cemetery” is paramount to ignoring reality. That’s a terrible rationalization and not what any political figure (who must be pragmatic with reality) can deny. Symbolism is strong in our world. Whether you like it or not, Yasukuni symbolizes something. It is foolish not to be sensitive to that.

    Now, I think Koizumi was indeed sensitive to it, but he had his reasons for doing what he did and it was not just about “remembering the dead.” It may not be “we should militarize and invade China” but I do think there were domestic political reasons for his actions, and other people, like the Chinese, have reasonable cause to be sensitive to it.

    Rick, you’re so much smarter than playing dumb on this. Don’t let me down, man.

  • mac

    and ME, i don’t speak english…

  • http://- tom

    Idiots. What does this have to do with the shrine??

    The idiot Chinese student should be tried with attempted murder and the Japanese with ‘assualt’. Surely a vast , racist mob intent on killing you makes ground for self-defence?

    And i just wish the total dickhead that asked for equality in his own homeland could experience being foreign in china.

  • jamar

    And a parting shot (thank all that is good and decent SniperWZ left)- “it doesn’t matter what you think” is exactly what started this incident. I hope people learn so that such things don’t happen next time. Oh, and never drink alcohol if you think you might do something you’ll regret later.

  • Ann

    On Japanese taking responsibility on the atrocities committed in Asia:

    Semantics counts because it reveals the hidden psyche, the unspoken lie, the denial, and hostility. Whether a common convicted murderer is truly remorseful cannot be judged by his professed remorse alone during his death sentence. A simple apology by officials once a great while can not be accepted as sufficient given the extent of killings and butchering by the Japanese. It has to be repeated by heads of the state over and over, in specifics and in deeds. So far the apology has been given in generalities to samll audiences and events. No vicitm has been personally recognized or acknowledged. The number of victims of Japanese brutality also ran in millions. And, there is no equivalent of Holocaust museums for the victims anywhere in the world. Meanwhile, there is a movement in Japan to wipe out this memory, of teaching history without mentioning the Japanese brutality against its neighbors; but instead Japan is presented as the victim of U.S. aggression.

    For those who forget history are bound to repeat it. Shame factor is merely an escape for the person who violated social, human conduct a way out, assuming that the violator is already feeling guilty and having the ability to self-correct. Shame is not effective as a control since the violator can always cover up, lie, move on, only to commit the same violation over and over. Open, honest and sincere apology is the only solotion to undo past wrongs. Japan should own up to it in a big way.

    This is not a message to provoke hate towards the Japanese. On a person to person level, Japanese are no different than Chinese, whites or black or brown, tall or short, fat or thin, bald or hairy, male or female. I do not condone the idiotic nationalism that is brewing in China currently.

  • jamar

    Well, that’s better. I was hoping just a little that things didn’t happen *exactly* as the story described it, but the fact that such a report is even believable is evidence of a social and political problem that people on both sides should be trying to resolve.

  • krdr

    Oh, well, I was right. Story exaggerated. Or, maybe state media tweaked the story due political reasons.

  • rlast

    good job china! Japanese people deserve that. fuck you alll japanese in the world!!! they are the dirtiest people in the world. war crime, occupation…etc they are just fucked up people!

  • anon dude

    ShittyFaggotyBuddah,

    Dude… Just so you know some people can smoke a phat sack of weed, don’t study all that much, and still get better grades than you asshole.

  • anon dude

    Sorry, I meant ShittyFaggotyButtman

  • Ann

    No doubt China tweaked the incident, or minimized the incident which occured between two explosive ethnic groups, Chinese versus Japanese. It would be too big and embarassing an incident to allow the truth out on international press. I happen to believe the student eye witnesses more. Is it not more important to believe the eye witnesses as they are the first persons to be on the scene and might have participated in the mayhem. This is so typical of China to discredt eye witness report. Besides, this story has not been published in international media.

  • Pretender

    @USTCer
    Its sad, but any reasonable being could identify the story as garbage; some rumours readily adopted by the Chinese looking for excuses to vent their anger. It’s amazing how some information as precise as two people being injured (or brutally injured, as one is led to believe) is readily adopted as fact.
    Some Historians have argued we should look at the Boxer rebellion not as evidence of China’s all pervasive xenophobia, but as the venting of frustrations by some hard done by peasants during a time of drought. I think that view grossly neglects the extreme nationalism that sticks like a parasite to a very real Chinese national consciousness (or should I say: Han Chinese national consciousness?)
    I wonder what would have happened had the police not arrived so swiftly at the scene, and acted in an extremely professional manner…

  • Veer Left

    I’m not blind or stupid so of course I remember the ‘textbook’. I also understand (not agree with) the Japanese trying not to burden the grandchildren of the WWII generation with the gory details. It appears that the Japanese culture bears SHAME a lot harder than most others…

    After all… do Shanghainese grandparents tell their grandkids , “Yes , I ratted out lots of ‘artists’ and ‘free-thinkers’ back in the pogrom days!”?? or “I was there in Shanghai stadium cheering for the executions of the unfaithful.”
    WHo are the CHinese to tell other people about their own history?? Every time a laowai presents a nugget of information NOT endorsed by the state “historians” version of events, we are told to mind our own business and that we ‘don’t understand China’.

    This brings us back to the university arguments turned international incident.

    Do you think that every time a Chinese gets in a fracas with a white Canadian that a crowd gathers to beat that Chinese? NO.
    So why are we seeking to find reasons for cowardice?
    Yes, creating rallies out of this incident (in which nobody was injured) and pitting 100s of Chinese against 10 Japanese is cowardice.
    If 10 guys are the problem, get 10 guys to deal with it…(or better yet, follow the security guards advice and go back to sleep).

    • Fike2308

      Veer Left said, “After all… do Shanghainese grandparents tell their grandkids , “Yes , I ratted out lots of ‘artists’ and ‘free-thinkers’ back in the pogrom days!”?? or “I was there in Shanghai stadium cheering for the executions of the unfaithful.”
      WHo are the CHinese to tell other people about their own history?? Every time a laowai presents a nugget of information NOT endorsed by the state “historians” version of events, we are told to mind our own business and that we ‘don’t understand China’.”

      Dude, I TOTALLY agree!

      If something is not state-endorsed here the people just tend to ignore it….the ignorance and doublethink (1984/Orwell) I encounter here in China astound me.

  • effezzhang

    Sigh, being of Chinese descent, I really am embarrassed that I might actually have some genetic relation to these cretins…. At the same time.. I can’t help but feel pity for these idiots… Living under a veil of ignorance for decades.

    Somehow I do feel it has very much to do with the emotional maturity and the level of education one receives. People who have less of the two abovementioned attributes have a much higher tendency to resort to mass hysteria and lash out violently.

    It’s pretty much the same wherever I’ve lived… Malaysia, Thailand, China, even in places like UK and Australia though to varying degrees. Usually the lower less educated classes would tend to more likely lash out rather than engage in a dialouge to resolve differences.

    Sometimes I wish that these “pre-evolution” distant relatives of mine could think of themselves as an individual rather than “aping” what the next mainlander does.

    Oh how I weep for humanity…..lol….

  • Fuller

    @ Veer Left
    “After all… do Shanghainese grandparents tell their grandkids , “Yes , I ratted out lots of ‘artists’ and ‘free-thinkers’ back in the pogrom days!”?? or “I was there in Shanghai stadium cheering for the executions of the unfaithful.”
    WHo are the CHinese to tell other people about their own history?? Every time a laowai presents a nugget of information NOT endorsed by the state “historians” version of events, we are told to mind our own business and that we ‘don’t understand China’.”

    I’m with you 100% on that one dude. Seems hypocritical for SOME Chinese to criticize others for whitewashing history.

  • Jay

    All this back and forth hatred is just crazy. I don’t understand why the Japanese students were so impolite as to behave like that in their host country but the reaction by many Chinese, the racial slurs, etc are just nutty, irresponsible!

    • Fike2308

      Yeah, it’s like the Japanese guys were wrong in the first place and the Chinese kids wanted to see if they could behave worse than actually resolve the situation.

      Like having a stupidity contest and I’d say that the gold medal goes to the Chinese students in this case!

  • Haha

    With so much racist and self hating?/pity?/depreciating?/hates-own-race anti-chinese ramblings in the comments, I almost wished that the 10 Japanese students got beaten.

    @Veer Left
    10v10 only? Yeah, those other students are just going sit calmly down and elect 10 random students to get a final showdown. That’s plausible. lol.

    @Ann
    “No doubt … tweaked…” Really? Are you really so sure? “So typical of China to discount eye witness…” How many times have you seen internet posts that turned out to be some exaggerated rumors? I will take any formal journalism over BBS “eye witness” reporting.

    @Pretender
    I completely agree with your first part about people not being skeptical enough to rumors. I don’t agree your implied stance that boxer=bad. Although they are violent and xenophobic, do you think they can ask the imperial forces out in a non-violent way? At that time, China is getting owned on all sides, it is very understandable that they did what they did. If you pretend that the boxers were a legitimate army, then they are not so bad, are they, compare to the just as inhumane invaders and colonizers?

    @effezzhang
    And I am just as sad that I share genetic relations with someone with no spine. Even if those fenqings are irrational and mob-like, they are still 100 times better than someone who has no backbone. Who said identify oneself to something bigger than oneself is bad and ignorant? Who said individualism is good?

  • effezzhang

    @haha…..Lol…. yup I’m sad as well that I actually share some gene traits with a spineless monkey who can’t even think for himself.

    I don’t need another mainlander telling me individualism is good or bad. I decided that individualism is good for myself.

    As for people who probably think being chinese is the epitome of humanity.. well that’s up to you…. I can only say, I’m proud to be able to see above and beyond what most chinese or even caucasians can.. so Mr.haha…. until you can really understand the meaining of “spineless” (My definition: too afraid to have a differing opinion compared to the mob)… I suggest that you travel the world abit and try to understand the world better… that is if you have the education and the cash to…. otherwise I can’t fault you for being as “spineless ” as the rest of the “mindless mob”

    I’m just glad my ancestors trusted their senses and decided there was more to the world and left the “middle kingdom ” who had their peasantry stuck too far up their “Emperor/ Chairman’s arse”

    I’m still a long way from being the person I want to be… but I’m happy that I’m progressing the way I want to be and the only person that I’m accountable to is myself. That my friend, is individualism…

    • Fike2308

      Effezzhang is THE MAN! Great attitude, great post!

  • http://- tom

    Can any english speaking person imagine, a pathetic fight, some of whom were foreigners.
    Then an angry mob gathering where they imagines the foreigners to live and singing the national anthem?

    Needle dick nationalism at its worst. what is the Chinese saying?

    ” as 1 we we are nothing but together we are a dragon”

    Contemptible cowardly liitle racist scumbags

    In my country we would see it as a fight, nothing more.
    Get involved if it’s your friends, otherwise who cares?

    Plus noboby knows the national anthem beyond the first sentence, and you would look EVEN MORE STUPID singing the same line over and over.

    Plus2 have you ever seen a white guy win a fight? LOL

  • AndyR

    As my wife’s English teacher said,

    “一个中国人好，一群中国人怀”

    I think that this can be applied to other countries as well (see a Sarah Palin rally in the US).

    One thing we have to remember that the Chinese people are going through some democratic birth pangs at the moment. Many people (esp. students) want to be more involved on the issues they care about which is a good thing, but have not learned how to organize themselves as a group in a peaceful and productive way. This is largely the fault of a political system that has out of fear of its own people discouraged independent political organization, coupled with the fact people have no trust in authorities to handle their problems. So in this case, you see a minor incident devolve into a crazy rally for Chinese pride, rather than having concerned students go to the administration as a group to ask for their help in cracking down on late night disturbances. In the heat of the moment, the students don’t call security to handle the issue because they know/think that these people won’t help them.

    The Japan/China issue is another side of the same coin. As we all know their are plenty of domestic issues that many onlookers would say are much more important than the Sino-Japanese historical issue. I often ask myself why will Chinese march in the streets over a Japanese textbook, but when their own government fails to protect them (Sanlu milk powder) they wait for the inevitable and ineffective firings of a few officials and their government pay-off to keep quiet? The answer is simple. The Japan issue or other foreign policy issues are designated “free protest” issues for the Chinese people because despite short-term disruptions of the “hexie shehui”, the CCP ultimately comes out clean. Therefore, for those who want to publicly voice their opinions, foreign affairs (Carrefour boycott is another example) becomes a convenient topic. When you dam a river, it has to find another outlet. The Japanese issue is just such an outlet, and coupled with a lack of organization on the part of protesters, constantly devolves into a ridiculous patriotic mob that never really solves the problem (of course, half of the participants probably don’t know what the problem is in the first place)

  • AndyR

    And I know people are going to say “But people were angry about the Sanlu milk scandal!” Point is in the past few years, many of the most dramatic protests i.e. people in the streets, were the result of foreign affairs issues. Yes, people complained on the Internet, yes people returned the milk in droves, yes “He must have drank Sanlu milk” is still a running joke on the Internet, yes maybe their won’t be a Sanlu company anymore. But when the government authorizes a label on a product that says “This product does not need to be inspected by the government”, who is to blame? I find it funny that when they found 22 other dairy companies had products on the shelves with this same problem, the companies simply gave a discount, and people were like “sweet! cheap dairy products!” (Throwing money at the devil!) And in the end? A few firings and the review of a “food additives” law that will supposedly fix the problem with no popular oversight…I mean c’mon. Mark my words ladies and gentlemen it will happen again, it’s inevitable when you have such a close integration of big business and government. USA has the exact same problem and you see the mess we are in now. Sigh…sorry completely off topic, but this issue irks me to no end.

  • jamar

    @AndyR- “I find it funny that when they found 22 other dairy companies had products on the shelves with this same problem, the companies simply gave a discount, and people were like “sweet! cheap dairy products!” (Throwing money at the devil!)”
    No, those are the people with no other choice. Those with the means do as some of the people I know do and order from an importer who brings in Meiji dairy products from Japan. It costs over 30 kuai per liter but hey, it beats “thworing money at the devil”.

  • Ann

    AnyR:
    You have a point! In other words when Chinese are not allowed to bark at the tree with the squirrel having stolen the corn, the dog goes and barks at the wrong tree. When Chinese can’t organize and protest, they beat up others who are totally unrelated to the problem. That’s what is called misdirected anger and Chinese has plenty of it. Nationalism is a convenient way to vent it with the blessing and help of the gov’t mouth piece Xienhua.

    Well, the U.S.! I am in agreememt. we need urgent oversight by the Fed. ; and yes, there will be many Salu’s waiting to take its place. It may not be milk production, it will be something else. To make money is glorious, greed is good, greed is right, greed works……(Wall Street, movie with Michael Douglas on immitation of Ivan Boesky.) Both China and U.S. can learn a good less from the current economic debacle.

  • tom

    Most security guards in China are racist criminals, just like the students in this story.

    I used to live at SISU

  • Mike

    Please, someone explain… Taiwan had an even longer occupation by Japan than the Mainland. Japan was brutal, totalitarian, violent, and oppressive in Taiwan and even though it lucked out in not being the center of the Anti-Japanese war, like China was, for it’s size and population, it suffered, there was genocide, women were raped en masse; all of this lasting far longer than it did in Mainlad China. Of course, there is still major resentment in Taiwan today towards Japan, people still make comments against Japanese, protest againts the Japanese govt, and if a Japanese person walked into the wrong bar or said the wrong thing , they might get beat up. However, do you ever hear of anti-Japanese hystery such as what pops up in China every now and then, happening in Taiwan? Are there any restaurants in Taipei with signs saying “No Japanese Dogs” as there are in Harbin? Do Japanese businesses in Kaoshiung have to board up their stores/ offices or evacuate their staff whenever some idiot politician visits Yasakuni like they’d have to do in Guangzhou? Why do these places deal with this so differently?

    • A Brit

      Chinese were worse to Taiwanese after Japan left.

    • Just John

      Taiwan has freedom.
      They can vent their anger through media, interviews, internet, etc.
      Don’t like the government, write about it.
      Don’t like the Japanese, picket their companies.

      Simple fact is, Taiwan does not have the misdirected anger here because they can take it out through the appropriate means, which is not allowed in China.

  • Marvin

    The photos show that the incident was at the Shangwai Hongkou campus, not its Songjiang campus where nearly all undergraduate students are.

    The only students who live on the Hongkou campus are (i) international students who choose not to live outside, and stay in the SISU “guesthouse” there, (ii) undergraduates at Xianda College, a fee-paying offshoot of SISU for students who haven’t got the grades to make it into SISU “proper” but whose parents are willing to fork out the cash. There are occasional issues with arrogant parents of Xianda students believing they can drive all over the campus to pick their progeny up, and just tell people to get out of the way.

    SISU Hongkou campus is a dump, and by no means feels like an actual university. The only interesting thing going on there is GIIT, China’s top interpretation institute, which is tiny and extremely low profile.

  • Haha

    @effezzhang
    First, never did I say that individualism is all bad and nationalism is all good.

    Second, how arrogant are you? “I’m proud to be able to see above and beyond what most chinese or even caucasians can.” Wow! Your ideas are so old, and there is nothing new and independent about it. Individualism has been promoted to death for a long time now, and it’s currently the mainstream or the “mob” view, so nothing rebel and above-the-crowd about your views. Don’t get so high, ok?

    My question is, did you really independently examine individualism and collectivism to see that the former is always the best? From the shallowness of your cliche statements, you seem to have just adopted the individualism out of association with the west and therefore “moderness”. Do what you recommend me to do.

    @AndyR
    I agree with most of your sentiments. However, most people in any kind of public demonstration will have a very shallow view of the concerned issue.
    They probably don’t know much outside the slogans that they are repeating endlessly. Another form of “brainwashing”? Why the protests are used on well thought out issues, then good. But it’s just as likely they are not well thought out and become a mob.

    @Mike
    It’s very true that CCP encouraged the anti-japanese sentiment, but is it not also true that KMT, or Lee Teng Hui specifically, and DDP recently purposefully toned down the sentiment and discouraged focus on offensive Japanese actions out of political reasons. Taiwan needs allies against mainland. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, right?

  • c*inkunitarseho

    EZhang and Haha, both of you are wrong…

    Both collectivism and individualism are doomed to failure. First, individualism is nothing but an illusion. You are merely going with the ebb and flow of society.

    Collectivism has already been demonstrated to fail. Try to come up with the machinery that is both consistence and complete to optimally decide as a collective… impossible.

    Both collective and individualism is achievable in a hunter and gather, or even sustenance farming society. For in such a society the domination and control of entropy is minimal, thus is workable. F

    Our world on the other hand is defined by the controlling and domination of entropy… Which is ultimately an intractable excercise.

    To summarize: We are doomed. But it’s not so bad. It’s the natural order of the universe.

  • Ann

    @C*Inkunitarseho,
    Hogwash, entropy? What the hell are you talking about, big word but meaningless. Individualism is relative and some what abstract in practice. In a crowded densely populated society, it is inevitable that one gets bumped up to another human being sooner or later with more or less the same idea and way of thinking and behaving. However, individualims allows for separateness as a choice in making decision. Individualism is never meant that there is no other like me in this big wide world, rather it means there is a bigger distance between some one like me and me. U.S. and Western culture is more tolerant and supportive of individualism. You have confused collectivism with conformity. Collectivism is about working together and sharing the benefit of what is produced, a economic way of organizing human activity. Corformity is about social norms and behaviors towards each other as a prefered way in the functioning of a society. Conformity is highly valued in some societies for the sake of social harmony as in Japan, China and Korea. The downside is there is tremendous pressure for mass think and action, and intolerance of people who behave differently. Cormformity at times can turn people into highly critical and intolerant individuals of those who make independent choices. The fear factor of rejection by members of the group coerces members into behaving like a mindless mob for good or bad. For those who choose non-conformity/individualism can find themselves ostracised, and at times to the extreme of committing suicide when no escape is possible. The suicide of a very popular Korean actress is the perfect example to the consequence of being an non-conforming member of a highly conforming soiciety.

  • Samael

    whats all the fuss? Seems to my the typical ethnic brawl that happens here every friday night gone wrong thats all haha.

    however, in all seriousness i an a little concerned with the fact that Chinese are being left in in your discussions. more on that later, first,

    @Ann

    most of your posts tends to deal with a fairly standard assessment of Chinese nationalism based on state sponsorship. Thats fine. However some of the newer views in academia are starting to move away from this’ top down’ narrative, particularly in light of the effect of the internet on Chinese youth and the rise of the grass root level ‘Cyber Nationalist’, an entity which the government essentially has no control over and is in many cases counterproductive to the state. Also, this traditional view (and by extension yours) has not explained why many (not all of course) younger overseas Chinese (1.5 and 2nd generation) tend to be supportive/defensive not only of China as a nation but the Chinese government as well, despite having grown up in Western/non Chinese societies .

    as stated above, my main issue with all the post here is the fact that Chinese themselves have been wholly removed from most of the discussions and assessments on this topic. to me thats rather insulting to their intellect. These are living, breathing THINKING people. Sure they live under a totalitarian system with a powerful propaganda organ and a generally indoctrinating education system, but the important point that i think many of you missed, is that the people KNOW its propaganda (which is much more than i could say for certain sections of my country). Propaganda in China is rather overt, and the people know misinformation exist and therefore has a choice in whether they accept it or not. the curious thing is, they generally do accept government lines. Why is that?

    Im from Australia and i find a rather interesting comparison can be made of this episode aand the Cronulla ‘race riots’ against middle eastern peoples (google it. Although, call me a racist if you will but i do challenge the notion that it was wholly racist) of course they are not completely compatible but both were basically mob mentality gone out of control. Yet Cronulla did not bring with is as much politics as this incident did. its as if being under a totalitarian government automatically makes it a much more sinister and serious event.

    and finally at @Chua

    Warren?? Tim?? is that you?!

  • effezzhang

    @ c*inkunitarseho

    You may have a point there in regards to individualism, in a way it can be considered a “movement”, where more and more people adopt such practices to varying degrees.

    However that being said, I was never interested in how individualism will benefit society. To me individualism allows me to differentiate myself from the rest of the crowd. Throughout my Uni and career years it has always helped to give me an edge over both local and western students in terms of grades and career progressions.

    @Anne

    True as a kid, I had a hard time assimilating into my school (somewhere in asia…) given my unortodox way of thinking and the surrounding norms but that was because I never realised that being an individual who decides what’s good or bad for him/herself was a potential path. People rather be the good law abiding and productive citizen… School was tough in some ways, but at the same time it has given me the luxury of forging lifelong friends, real friends.

    By my first year in highschool I witnessed how the Asian Financial Crisis struck. I saw how being a productive citizen in Indonesia (close by) didn’t save your family from being pillaged, I many of my firends parents who were mostly decent folk being the first to be laid off. So essentially I could have lived a pretty comfy and set out life in my country of origin but I will always be at the mercy of a mob mentality. I decided to leave. When I was at uni in Australia I noticed that although there were any cliques as there were in Asia, people were more tolerant of differing views. Call it cliche, but cliches do exist for a reason no?

    Anyways, I do thank my chinese ancestors to have thought me the value of prudence, but I also have my adopted western countries to thank for for other values. The result??

    I’m quite happywith life now… mid 20′s , pretty decent paying job and a nice cozy townhouse, a not so nice 2nd hand mx-5 who competes for my attention with the significant other and a safe buffer of cash to last myself a year or so if unemployment ever hits. I may not be a millionaire, but I’m definitely living a better quality of life than 95% of my ex-schoolmates. And I do feel that there is much potential for me to grow further.

    So @ haha, I’m mostly content with my life thank you. I still have many areas that I can improve, but I’ll do it at my own rate. I was simply recommending you travel around the world abit as I feel that somehow, you’ve been deprived of the opportunity of living abroad with different people.

    I do sympathise with you because I would have very likely ended up like you, an evolutionary “dead end” if I had chose to “conform” with the acceptable norms and thinking of an asian education system.

  • Ann

    Samuel:

    I am knowledgeable of the changing environment in terms of access to information and the subsequent better informed Chinese youths and their skepticism of thier government’s propaganda. More importantly is the question who Chinese are so prone to mass movement at the slightest provacation. It seems they are easily stoked to act emotionally, and not enough distance is accorded to filter out rumours etc. before taking acting. I would ascribe it to the frustration of the youths having to survive in a repressive society, in the lack of a healthy place to vent. Perhaps in this case, the internet is a good place for venting without serious consequence. My other question iI have is that while the government is quick to condemn those who do not toll the line, why is it that the Chinese commenters here as a small measurement of Chinese sentiment are also quick to condermn and set blames.

    Personally, I think it is the psychological make-up of Chinese living in a repressive society as the factor. They are deprived of the opportunity for self-direction and self-examination. They live in a world of being told what is right or wrong by to their teachers, government, government sponsored news media. To be honest and true, I would also acknowledge that some Chinese have establlished themselves as independent thinkers, e.g. the human rights activists in China. They are the exception.

  • Ann

    Corrections who to why, acting to action:
    More importantly is the question “why” Chinese are so prone to mass movement at the slightest provacation. It seems they are easily stoked to act emotionally, and not enough distance is accorded to filter out rumours etc. before taking “action’.

  • Samael

    @Ann

    do these ‘independent thinkers’ think human rights because they are independent, or are they independent (or at least perceived to be) because they think human rights?

  • Ann

    Had too much wine for dinner. Your questions sounds too complicated to process at the moment. May be someone else can fill in.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Samuel,

    Excellent post. I think Ann, and a lot of people here, have forgotten the whole point behind this website offering so many translated comments. We’re supposed to get an idea of what Chinese people (netizens) are thinking and how they think through this.

    I fully agree that while we cannot discount the socialization many mainland Chinese go through, they’re not mindless automatons either. Some people are too willing to dismiss all forms of nationalism as being reflexes conditioned by the state as opposed to any genuine reflex on the individual level. Again, this is not to say all the education, propaganda, and environment doesn’t lend itself to reinforcing sometimes blind nationalism, but some people certainly aren’t giving the Chinese enough credit as human beings and individuals capable of free choice.

    We can argue that Chinese students abroad may be fulfilling the programming of their earlier years but that’s a simplistic explanation. Could it be that Chinese people actually are proud of their country, despite its existing warts? Is it wrong for Chinese people to still be proud of their country and their current government for whatever they HAVE managed to accomplish? Is it so difficult to understand that Chinese people might feel defensive about their country and government when they feel it being attacked from many different sides? Depending on the “criticisms” or “attacks,” whether rational or legitimate, it is all too human to feel defensive, right?

    Anyway, great comment. Note how she dodged your question, though. She’s a wily one.

    @ effezhang:

    MX-5, eh? Must be a car-guy. TheCarLounge.com much? :)

    @ Ann:

    Ann, you’re quick on condemning and blaming as well. Do you not recognize your own human proclivities? How intellectually-dishonest can you get, man? Geez.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Ann:

    Oh, I almost forgot. Why are you enjoying wine at dinner? Weren’t you ranting about people in some countries having too much while others having too little? Shouldn’t you and your bleeding-heart forgo the wine and contribute that money to the Sichuan earthquake victims or other impoverished children slaving away in factories being exploited by unscrupulous, evil bosses?

    How dare you sit around idly drinking wine (apparently enough for cloud your thinking so that simple questions to become “complicated”) while poor people in the world suffer further indignities? What happened to all your entreaties about inequality and excesses in the world?

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Ann:

    When you have the conviction to stand behind the bullshit you’re spewing in the vast majority of these comments, please reply to my questions in the Wuhan Child Labor post instead of running away the moment someone calls you out on the nonsense you accuse others of.

  • Ann

    There is a difference between the way Chinese deal with criticism towards their government and their poor social condition, and others living in democratic nations. Criticising governments and social conditions is a fair game as it is a form of measure of how the government is performing its job. No head of state can avoid being lampooned, George W., Blair and Brown, Sakorzy, and more. Chinese react similarly to some extremist Muslims upon criticism of their government. The case in point about Muslims is when a Danish cartoonist drew Mohamed with a bomb on his head, or the film producer who made a movie about the mistreatment of Muslim women, many Muslims called for blood. While Chinese had not gone to that extent, their hyper sensitivity to foreign criticism is of the same auto reflex reaction.

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