Japanese & Chinese Students Fight In Shanghai

A large crowd of Chinese students in Shanghai protest Japanese students who beat up two Chinese students in Shanghai.

From Tianya, “Shanghai International Studies University: Japanese students and Chinese students fought violently” (no longer accessible):

At present, the police, including the special police present, have already dispatched 10 police vehicles to maintain order, and the gathered crowd has just dispersed.

On October 20, 2008, about 10 P.M., over ten Japanese students were getting drunk and causing a disturbance in the school square. Their noise could be heard from every corner of the campus, which made the boys living on the 9th floor of the boy’s dormitory extremely upset. To protest against the Japanese, the 9th floor students sprinkled some water on the Japanese, resulting in the ten Japanese directly charging into the dorm to beat the two boys so severely that they had to be sent to the hospital.

After the beating, the 10 Japanese immediately fled the dorm room, and the students who heard the news immediately rushed downstairs to confront the Japanese students. At the time, the situation was chaotic. The police immediately dispatched special police to escort and evacuate over 10 Japanese from the school. Not only was the square swarming with patriotic students, I estimate there were approximately several hundred people. Over 10 police vehicles came one by one to maintain order, with everyone standing around watching each other for about 20 minutes.

Under the direction of several students, the students sang the national anthem, marching to the international guest house [the dormitory for international/foreign/study abroad students] to continue their protest against Japanese people. However, the police blocked off the entrance to the international guest house. At this time, we could see Koreans also hanging up their Korean flag. As the student protests increased, there were some foreigners upstairs in the international guest house (it was too dark to see clearly) throwing glass bottles down, causing the situation to escalate…only after the person in charge of the school immediately put forward that the first three students who knew what happened come forth and communicate with the Japanese did the university students calm down and behave themselves.

Over 2 hours later, the matter finally quiet down…at the time there were people using cameras and video cameras to film, which will probably be uploaded onto the internet soon.

Note: The above translated post was reformatted from the original into separate paragraphs. When this incident happened, many BBS forums quickly deleted every post. Originally, I had decided not to do it because it was impossible to get any information and comments before it was deleted. However, the above original post and following comments from different BBS were available for awhile the next day for me to gather the information. Other netizens and students give more details in the comments. – Fauna.

Chinese students talk outside about Japanese students who attacked two Chinese schoolboys.

Comments from Tianya (no longer accessible):

Fuck, throwing a fit on China’s own territory, they must be tired of living…

From the school BBS:

First of all, it happened in Shanghai. Every one knows that Shanghai people can argue until their nose touch but they will not physically fight. Second, in our kind of our humanities school, there are naturally only about two and a half boys, so for them to be surround and fight a Japanese person was not easy as it is!! As such, this situation really let me see things in a new light!!~

What had happened is this: Yesterday, October 20, 2008, I heard a group of Japanese and Koreans being really loud in the sunken school square as I was returning at 10 p.m. However, I did not think much about it, because I am already used to it. I do not know what they are always so happy about but every week there are a few days where this group of little Japanese [小日本 is a little derogatory] are messing around, singing and dancing.

It was getting very late and it was still very noisy even after midnight. It turns out they were brazenly barbecuing on the square downstairs!! The boys on the 9th floor were now unhappy, so they asked them to not be so loud, that people upstairs were resting. But they would not listen and continued making a lot of noise downstairs! One of the chivalrous boys on the 9th floor could not take it anymore, and on behalf of the Chinese people, he threw he threw an angry beer bottle down. The Japanese devils flew off the handle [became pissed], daring to go up our dorms to the 9th floor and beating up our compatriot, and then going back down to continue eating and drinking~!

This definitely pissed off us schoolmates and a group of us furiously went down and surrounded that group of Japanese people…and in the end…

We are peace-loving Chinese people, who definitely do not support violence. However, the arrogance of this group of Japanese was plain to see. I am not saying that all Japanese, but most of them have poor characters, everyday riding their Harley-Davidson motorcycles showing off their engines, hurting my ears every time they pass by, drinking and causing trouble, skipping classes (I have seen their attendance forms. There are 20 students in the class, all the Japanese are absent almost every class, the type who only go to 2 or 3 classes the whole semester), each and every one of the boys wearing eyeliner, they are just not very likable.

The Sichuan earthquake had given me some good feelings with regards to the Japanese, but this incident made once again despise young Japanese scum to the highest degree. I had already read reports about our fellow Chinese students being insulted while studying in Japan, This group of Japanese deserved to suffer in China, so this incident will also let them babies have a taste what it is like to be bullied outside of their country, and besides it was them who were wrong! They absolutely deserved to be beaten!!

I will also politely advise those Japanese kids who went upstairs to attack others: You should have thought carefully about where the fuck you guys were before going upstairs. If you are coming here to study, then be honest students, do not cause trouble, and Japanese people especially should not cause trouble in China.

I had looked upon these international students with welcoming/friendly eyes. I thought no matter if they are Japanese or Korean, them coming to China must be because they love China, because they love Shanghai. It was only until last year that I realized they came to China just for the price difference [because it is cheaper to live in China]!! No matter how expensive Shanghai is, it is not as expensive as their own country. This group of useless children [who waste their family's fortune] go to the bars drinking every day, and our school even has someone who drives a Benz sports car! They have gotten to a point where I can no longer look at them.

Also, the character of those Shanghai International Studies University international students? What character? Running red lights, accosting girls, speeding try to accost girls. When I was at Häagen-Dazs, there was even someone who would try to leave without paying. Last year, there was even someone who was kicked out of school for threatening people!

In contrast, some international students from poor countries have very good character. Their family financial situations are not very good, and the living standards in their countries are bad, so they usually all come on Chinese government scholarships. These students from Nepal, Nigeria and Venezuela are all much better than those from developed countries. One could learn nothing talking with those from developed countries. They can only teach you how to say “FUCK” in different languages! So uninteresting~

I am going to stop complaining here. All in all, I applaud those the two and half boys! Even though the Japanese were being loud, it was not right for us to throw the beer bottles~ But if they beat our schoolmates, you guys surrounding them and beating them up was good! We cannot let us Chinese people be bullied by foreigners in our own country!! Next time something like this happens, call me. MLGBD~ Beat to death those damn little Japanese!!!

PS. I also heard this story from others [hearsay], so some details may not be true, but me hearing them being noisy is true, that the Japanese behave poorly on campus is true, and that two of our schoolmates were beaten is true! ~Damn little Japanese, this business is not finished~

Shanghai police block off a road after Chinese students protest against Japanese students.

Dog fucked, should they not at least be detained for attacking people?! It is not as if they are embassy members, there have no diplomatic immunity.

Fuck, this bitch school dares to protect the Japanese~~~

Why did the special police [SWAT?] escort the little Japanese who attacked other people out? What kind of logic is this??
Why were the Korean and other international students who participated in causing trouble not held responsible?
Why not give the Chinese students an explanation? Dammit, we can forget about us being bullied outside of our country, but we have to put up with being bullied in our own country too???
There must be a reasonable explanation…
Why!?!?! In our country, at our school, there can actually be such arrogant foreigners???
Dammit, what logic is this?? Are our students so hopeless, or is it a problem with our leadership??

Students~~~Fighting people requires tactics~~~
With hundreds of you surrounding them, of course they have to dispatch the police…
Wait for this to pass, and everyone stay still. Just ten of you is enough to beat those few Japanese. As long as they are in school, there will be opportunities to teach them a lesson. Avoid this getting out of control.

Kill all Japanese pigs! [x12]

Bring attention to what the attackers look like so the entire school can recognize them as being wanted. Anytime those bastards dare show their face, they will be beaten and…

So angry!! So speechless!!
Ten Japanese dare charge into the boys dorm to beat people? What the hell were the other Chinese students present doing? Is this still a boy’s dorm, with everyone else only knowing how to stand by watching Japanese people beat Chinese people…?
Forget about the police, I don’t know what to say about Chinese police protecting foreigners like this.

After 100-200 years, after so many revolutions, after sacrificing millions of people, Chinese people are still second-class citizens on their own land.

If those who were beaten were Han students [Han is the Chinese ethnic majority], this matter would be left unresolved.

I wrote this here to be an proof of what I had predicted.

You motherfucker, would it kill you to not push for national secession at this time?

Why is China’s police so mean to the Chinese, but act like grandsons when encountering foreigners?

You really don’t understand
It is only because they are in China that they throw a fit.
Put them in the United States or Russia,
the Japanese would be as well-behaved as grandsons.

Police comrades, normally I never see you as active as you were last night…I say, could you have simply arrived just a little later?
Those two Chinese students are pretty useless/cowardly. This matter has 80-90% chance of being unresolved…

A large group of Chinese students sing the national anthem outside the international student dorms in Shanghai.

Seeing that so many schoolmates all posted…I will also write about what I saw and heard…

Last night around 9-10pm, the three of us were in our room watching “Flood.” After watching half of it, the electricity stopped, but was restored quickly. However, I no longer wanted to watch, so I copied the “KONAN #12″ from my PSP to my computer and unexpectedly it required half an hour. Bored, I walked out onto the balcony to take a look.

I saw a group of little Japanese downstairs making noise, even singing “happy birthday” but their English was lousy…

Our room has a flashlight…very powerful…can shine very far…and just as I was about to shine them, someone downstairs on the 4th or 5th floor threw a water bottle at them.

The Japanese people started screaming, “if you have the guts, come down.” A brother on the 9th floor started to fight back. The funniest thing was that the Japanese screamed a four word Japanese phrase, we did not understand, and the 9th floor responded with “fuck your mother’s cunt,” which was also four words.

Then the Japanese people started cursing, “fucking China.”

The brothers upstairs responded, “don’t worry, China still has Taiwan, this is the mainland.” Everyone on the balconies were jiong…

Then the arguing became more and more intense. Four Japanese guys charged up, supposedly brought up by a traitor who entered school in 07 studying German, wearing red clothes, yellow hair, wears glasses. Whether this information is accurate needs to be confirmed. We all figured that even just one floor of us could easily crush them so we did not think much about it.

Then the 10 something Japanese downstairs charged towards the dorms. At this time, I heard the loud noise of a door being kicked and hit. We realized we need to go up to help our own compatriots.

Very quickly the 9th floor was filled with people.

First were 7-8 little Japanese charged up to the 9th floor, indiscriminately attacking any Chinese they say. They did not even ask if they were the person who was just arguing with them. Downstairs came up two brave Chinese guys, bringing with them two metal tubes. 2 against 8. The security guard came to stop the fight and the little Japanese even started attacking the security guard along with the other Chinese students. The security guard’s clothes were torn.

When the little Japanese saw that more and more of us were coming, they hid into the elevator. Security guard uncle said, “There is nothing we can do in the school. I cannot let you guys fight. If we were out in society fighting, I would definitely help you guys.” After seeing the elevator head down, all of us ran down the stairs to the first floor.

But now there were too many people, and we could not distinguish who was Japanese. At this point, a little Japanese shouted, “Chinese dogs, if you have the guts, come.” I did not see clearly who shouted it, I only knew from which direction it came from. Soon we found the group of Japanese people.

We all surrounded them. At this time, 120 and 110 [emergency medical and police numbers] have all already arrived. 120 took our two injured Chinese schoolmates back to the hospital. 110 protected the Japanese people, keeping us outside.

Just like this, 4-5 police cars came and escorted the little Japanese away. One Japanese who had drank too much was also sent to the hospital.

Throughout all of this we were screaming fuck Japan, fuck your mothers, etc…the entire school was very magnificent…I estimate over 80% of the guys had come downstairs…

Seeing as how they did not even give a single apology, and were so arrogant, students who could not accept the situation shouted, “Rush the international guest house!”

So the big team [crowd] again changed to rushing the international guest house.

People started yelling, fuck Japan, little Japanese, fuck your mother, etc. One by one the lights in the international guest house flickered on.

There were foreigners upstairs taking pictures (this was indeed embarrassing), and people from other countries were sticking their country’s flags on their windows, afraid we would charge up there and accidentally cause them harm.

Then a water bottle flew down.

The crowd moved back to the square behind the fountain.

Then a glass cup flew down and shattered right on my foot. Fortunately, there was no injury. Had it hit my head, I would have gone and caused problems. And then the conflict would only get worse.

School officials and police try to calm down an angry mob of Chinese students.

Well done, Shanghai students!!
ZF, stop paying so much respect to foreign beasts, this is not the late Qing Dynasty! This is the new China’s territory!! You must do something!!!

Fuck! Embarrassing! If those Japanese dared to do that in our school, they would have long ago been sent to the hospital!

From the school BBS:

Fellow students, hello! I am Hou Wang from the Department of German, and my dorm room is A911. I witnessed the entire incident that moved so many people’s hearts. What fellow student, “Mantou”, had posted above already covers most of it. I just want to add some details:

1. When the little Japanese rushed into our dorm rooms, they actually brought weapons with them, which were cooking pot lids. I thought a bunch of Japanese chefs had rushed up. Because our room A911 is right across from the elevator, that group of Japanese dogs starting hitting our door first. Actually they had hit every door on the left side of 9th floor. They were shouting, “FUCK CHINA” while banging on the doors. Because I was busy playing WOW, I didn’t open the door right away. By the time I had opened the door, the Japanese dogs had already started biting [attacking] people. By the time us brothers were about to beat them up, we were held back by the security guards. Actually, quite a few of us brothers still got in quite a few kicks. Ding! They ran away like wild dogs. (But there was one crazy dog that still did not learn his lesson. Us brothers were not happy, so we chased him down the stairs to the first floor.)

2. When we were in the front of the international guest house, there were actually already many journalists who had arrived. Their are very nimble! But that group of security guards would not open the door. At this moment, a man with a strong northeastern accent rushed over and said to the security guard, “You motherfuckers, open the door!” The security guard wanted to be “niu bi” and loudly replied, “Don’t even think about causing trouble!” The northeastern man was not happy, and pointed at the security guard’s nose yelling “Fuck your mother, are you a Chinese person or not?” The security guard immediately withered. With nothing to say, he could only allow himself to be painfully told off by the northeastern man. The security guard could only tuck tail and run away.

3. When we were singing the national anthem, many Chinese compatriots loudly signed that it was the first time seeing so many clothes-wearing Japanese dogs. I agreed with them. The Japanese dogs have strange values of sex. If it is not abusive, then it is a group of people. I heard they broke the 500 people having sex in one place Guinness world record. You tell me what difference this is with dogs.

4. Regarding the traitor problem. As a student of the Department of German, I feel disgraced, very disgraced. How can there be this kind of schoolmate, living with dogs?

Finally I want to declare that everything written above is the truth, nothing fabricated. There may be some discrepancies with some details, but the main part about the incident is correct.

Police try to maintain order as a large crowd of Chinese students protest Japanese students in Shanghai.

A bunch of stupid kids. The next time something like this happens, directly go beat them up. Once the police come, nothing can be done.
Do not gather around and stupidly sing the national anthem. Has this country ever loved you? All of the violent machines in this country are only used against you.

This is so Shanghai. If this was in the Northeast, however many little Japanese dared to enter the guy’s dorms vertically would have to come out horizontally!

Are there actually people who are saying good things about that Shanghai group of students??? I think they are just a bunch of trash…they have no brains nor guts. If they had the guts, those few police and security guards would not have been able to hold them back when the fight started. They were holding you back because doing so is what feeds them, it is merely a formality, so if there is a problem in their department later it is easier for them to say they tried, but several men held them back. If several guys rushed hard, I am sure they would not really make it difficult for you…

If you do no have guts but have brains, that is okay too. If you are afraid of being in public, just get 50-60 guys, do not be nervous, and pretend as if there is nothing to trick the little Japanese to come out, go to a remote place, beat them up, and then leave. Do not make a big fuss, the bigger it is, the harder it is to do something, and then you guy will not have a fight. In the end, this way is also easier for the school to deal with, they can pretend it was just an ordinary fight between students.

Now they can only get 200-300 people to go surround the international guest house, and sing the national anthem, and dragging in the country’s glory? Now the matter has risen to the political level, and now the government needs to deal with it, and in the end there will be no outcome. In the public opinion, the little Japanese became the weak and innocent party. Aside from yelling “fuck” to make ourselves feel better, we will not even be able to touch the little Japanese’s fingers [will not get a chance to beat them up]…and we are still being ostentatious? And still think it is a good idea to sing the national anthem?? No ability, embarrassed yourselves, and you still want to make a fool of yourselves…and you blame the JC for not letting you guys enter the international guest house? The JC’s attitude is the same as the government’s attitude. If their brains are functioning normally, of course they wouldn’t let you guys pass.

With this becoming so big…I bet if those little Japanese’s brains are still working, they will definitely and immediately let the embassy handle this, and then return to their country. You think they would come back to school to wait for your guys’ revenge?? Take a shower and go to bed.

I am outraged!! People who deserve the most blame are those few Japanese people, but rather those Chinese students who just stood around enthusiastically watching but didn’t have the courage to do anything! Really fucking embarrassing!!! Not helping their own compatriots who were being beaten by the Japanese, but still pretending to care by singing the national anthem!!! Really pisses me off!!! If this was outside the country and there were no Chinese to help out, then fine, but this was in a campus in China!!! And it was a boy’s dormitory!!! All of the men in that building are fucking not men, only having the ability to shout/argue, really sickens me to death!!! I don’t blame those students who got beat for not being able to fight back, after all they were just students, but that was one entire building of Chinese people!!!

The “FF” [a pun on "angry youth" that means "angry shit"] above, stop “pretending you could have done this better.” When it really happens, you guys would not be much better. Heh heh, as God as my witness, I have seen this kind of thing twice. Han fighting Uighur, Chinese students fought Japanese students, and if you dare make it a big incident, beating those people [Uighurs and Japanese], you will immediately experience the kungfu of our country’s riot police’s. They can beat you so hard that your mom will not recognize you. Those FF who don’t believe me can go try, who does not know how to pretend to be cooll on the internet?

Fuck. What were you guys thinking? Go and beat them first, then talk. In fact, everyone go up!!! I can’t believe you let them run away. An apology [from them] is fucking useless.

Police standing guard outside the university foreign student dormitories.

Comments on PCPop:

Beat the Japanese dogs to death, then kill the Koreans. There is no excuse for them to be throwing fits on Chinese people’s land.

USA says: Fuck, I will beat whoever I want
Russia says: Fuck, I will beat whoever criticizes me
China says: Hello everyone, whoever hits me, I will condemn and protest.

They actually allowed the little Japanese to attack people and then escape? If this thing happened in my school, the little Japanese would all have to be carried out! This school’s [Shanghai International Studies University] students are too worthless!

This group of dog-fucked [Japanese], better not let me see them. I am an expect of San Da [Chinese boxing].

Shanghai police block entrance to the international student dorms.

Comments from Tom:

Useless…a disgrace, such a disgrace…

Rational my ass, rational! They are already bullying us on our doorsteps and you still want to talk about what is wrong with China today? Only know how to protest? What use is protesting?

Throwing stuff from upstairs, they deserved getting beat up.

Seeing so many people saying Shanghai students are bad, that they could not beat Japanese people, is truly lamentable. Honestly, I am glad the majority of college students were rational, otherwise, yesterday’s Japanese international students would have already gone to another world. or the Japanese might already died. You guys want people to die, want to take out the Japanese, but at what cost for our country? There are actually people who are saying that student’s rationality is an embarrassment, truly no longer distinguishing right from wrong.

I am a student from Shanghai International Studies University. Even though others don’t think much of us, as a student in this school, I am clear about what happened. But those Japanese international students, they simply are not here to study. The international students in Shanghai University of Finance and Economics across from us came to China to study. What happened this time can only be said to have intensified long-standing conflicts. Plus, they were too arrogant. We are how old, but they are almost 30, and the police still protected them.

Police and security prevent the angry protestors from entering the foreign student dorms.

Comments from Mop (no longer accessible):

After seeing the pictures, I had yet another type of thought: There are still a lot of people who just like watching the excitement.

Japanese beating Chinese, Chinese singing the national anthem…fuck…what difference is this from being the “sick man of the east?”

Strongly request that these dog-fucked Japanese people be expelled out of China.

Something like this happens and there are still people here scolding their own compatriots?
Does it feel good letting foreigners see this kind of joke!
If you guys are so “niu bi,” go attack the Japanese embassy!
Those who do not support their own compatriots should avoid making sarcastic remarks.
Always discriminating based upon locality…
…have your brains been flooded with water?
Would China being broken into pieces make you all happy!!!

Shanghaiese are fucking well known for having the softest bones in the whole world.
If this had happened in Shenzhen, in the northeast, anywhere but Shanghai…
…could the little Japanese been able to go up to the 9th floor and severely hurt two people before the running away? Fucking Shanghai trash.
Even if you’re a ‘wai di ren,” just staying there too long will infect you…
Today’s Shanghai is the same as it was back when it was colonized…this is my feeling in Shanghai…
But fortunately next month I can finally leave this fucking place…You NB Shanghainese can go lick foreigner assholes.

Those who were not present can stop damn farting here…I go to that school in Hongkou, and participated in the demonstration, and the police vehicles were blocking the door of the international guest house! If you want to rush the hotel, you have to get pass the police first! Moreover, my room was on the fourth floor. When things broke out on the 9th floor, there were no sounds down there. You think we would not want to help? There are some people who unjustly say if this happened where they are, they would do this or that, would you just go ahead and kill Japanese people and not take legal responsibility? It is easy to say, but when you actually encounter it, would you really go up and take out the little Japanese? I can tell you right now that they are still in the international guest house and those of you with big mouths, if you really have the ability, then you can go ahead and get the little Japanese’ heads!

A police officer tries to maintain order.

The current Chinese government treats Chinese people like dogs, and treat foreigners like gods. Whenever something happens, the police will definitely first protect the foreigners. Actually, if they were ruthless/hateful and let 1-2 “niubi” foreigners die, then they would no longer dare to bully/take advantage of Chinese people.

Japanese people bow before the Yasukuni Toilet [pun, "shrine" sounds similar to "toilet" in Chinese] every day, and our shitty government only knows how to “sternly but fairly” protest. One word: Inept!

What a good opportunity (to beat Japanese) you had missed. When the Japanese were going up to the 9th floor, what were all the Chinese students doing? Just do those Japanese in, first vent hatred. Then Japan will protest. Negotiate, cut off relations, war breaks out, Japan is destroyed. Everyone who participated will become national heroes.

You guys could not defeat 10 little Japanese. Fuck, did you all grow up eating shit? You could not call more brothers to come help you? Fuck, what have you guys been doing in school? ~You bunch of cowards. Next time you see these Japanese again, just beat them to death. Dammit, just do it to avenge our past compatriots!~

Can those netizens in this post attacking the Shanghainese please remember, a post that was originally attacking Japanese devils, has become a post attacking Shanghainese people because of you guys. Are you guys trying to help the Japanese change the subject? Is attacking Shanghainese more important than attacking Japanese devils? Must Chinese people always fight themselves? Are Chinese people really this ugly? Will Chinese people never unite?

Damn, if this had happened in the Northeast, even our kindergarten kids could drown them to death in piss!! Those deserve-to-be-fucked-by-dogs Japanese bastards…

For something like this to happen in Shanghai means Shanghai people have made Chinese people lose face. Just scolding you is letting you off easy, you useless things. Do you understand that you Shanghainese are not worthy of making China lose face? Not afraid of the whole country scolding the Shanghainese for being cowards, anyone with any worth just go take out [kill] those Japanese who attacked others. Otherwise, any “Shanghai idiots” thinking about raising their heads can just keep on dreaming!

The foreign student dorms light up as foreign students inside wonder why there are many angry Chinese students outside.

Some international students hang up flags to show they are not Japanese. Others throw bottles at the Chinese students downstairs.

  • Teacher in China

    Actually Kai, I think some of what Ann is saying here makes sense to me. Hear me out and see what you think.
    I’ve just been catching up on this thread, and a lot of what I’m reading about education and the ability to think or be automatons reminds me of a book I read back in university by Paulo Friere.
    His ideas about education were that there were two basic types: “banking education” and “problem posing education”.
    The former is what I witness in Chinese classes (at least at the high school level, and in my school, which isn’t to say that it goes for everywhere in the country). Basically the student is an empty glass. The teacher pours knowledge into that glass, then the student pours it back out again in the same form on a test/exam.
    “Problem posing education” assumes that the student is already a full glass with many ideas of his/her own; the teacher asks the student to think critically and solve problems on his/her own.
    WHat Friere wrote is that many of what some people would call “repressive/opressive regimes” don’t want the masses to be able to think critically about the world around them because that leads them the understanding that the world around them could be better…which is a problem for the regime…
    What I see in China is NOT automatons who mindlessly follow everything they’re told. I see thinking and feeling people who have never been taught HOW to think on their own, never been taught how to think independantly. So they maybe have it in their nature to accept things a little more readily.
    Of course, there are students (and people) who can do it just fine – some people are naturally gifted/intelligent/curious and they want to see and think and analyze, and have ideas of their own. Still, there are others who don’t/can’t/won’t.
    You have no idea how hard it it for some of our students to make this leap into creative thinking and problem solving.

    This post was maybe a little rambling, mostly because I’m not entirely sure what I think about the topic – I was just reminded of this book so I thought I’d open that up to discussion since I think it’s interesting.

  • krdr

    @Ann

    Americans didn’t want to buy French products b/c they was against war in Iraq. They were burning French flags, and changed name of French fries. Almost every month, Arab and African people start local wars in Paris against government.

    I think you hate your own country more than you love USA.

  • krdr

    @Teacher in China

    You are right. Students will become what is poured in their head. That’s not Chinese, or oppressive regimes specialty. Every society tries to educate kids in way that it feels proper.

    In USA, kids are full of patriotic shit of greatest of all democracy, etc, etc… In UK, kids learns that they are the most civilized of all the nation…. In every society, kids are told myths, and kids believes in that myths. It is the way how culture is passed from generation to generation.

    Primer: In CH kids are taught that “CH is poor country, so they must to work and earn”. In Yugoslavia kids are taught that “we are rich country, where everything is fine”.

    It is states of France and Germany that stopped centuries of hate. They close the chapter of hostility, and opened chapter of cooperation.

    • Hans-von-Wurst

      What do you mean by CH? Switzerland or China?

  • Ann

    I dislike the way Chinese authority is treating her own people 800 million of them. Authority I mean provincial as well as national. I dislike the Iraq war and many other current issues going on in U.S. This blog is about China, as such I……

  • krdr

    @Ann

    So, it is OK to compare Chinese people with “blood calling Muslims”, but not with USA or France citizens?

    I would ask Fauna to implement audio preview of comments, same as youtube have: http://www.xkcd.com/481/

    You know, when I talk to Americans, Britons, French, Germans,… none of them would say anything bad against their country and government, no matter how bad government are. They always think about image of their country.

  • Ann

    Smauel:

    I am ready to answer about the link between independent thinkg and human rights. Let say it is not a horse and cart situation, rather it is the chicken or the egg.

  • Ann

    I don’t know what kind of scenario you were in in saying that Americans, Brits, French, German do not talk poorly of their own countries. Was it an alcohol infused conversation, and what was the context of the conversation?

  • krdr

    @Ann

    Any situation. So, after being sexist, genocide and rape supporter, with tendencies to corrupt, now I’m alcoholic.

  • effezzhang

    @ Kai

    Hmm….. not too active a forumer for cars, however good point.. will be checking Carlounge.com out… Thankies…

    That being said I’m an mx-5 fan because I generally like am very much in love with open tops and the mx-5 is not only a pure bred sports vehicle, but it’s also very balanced and fun to drive. I find personally driving a luxury marque or even monstrosities like a Nissan Skyline will put myself in the trying “too hard to look good” group..lol…

    So in end…. little, nimble, cheerful….. the motto for old girl (the car that is….)

    I wish I could afford the new generation ones though, but with the economic climate looking pretty dull… looks like it’s gonna be a good 3-4 years later…oh well…

    Well, since I’ off topic.. loggin out peeps,

    Ciao

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Teacher in China:

    Whoa, be very careful before you start going to bat for Ann. You’re reading way too much rational intelligence into what Ann has said and you’re thinking way too kindly about what she’s trying to say. There are far better people representing your thoughts than Ann, including myself.

    I have no doubts about how socialization affects the individual, and I have already stated that education, propaganda, etc. will certainly affect how people react to given stimuli. Likewise, there ARE people who are NATURALLY more adept at critical thought (Ann is not one of them, see her comments in other posts). We both agree on this. My point, in support of Samuel, is to be careful of completely dismissing the very real possibility that many Chinese people genuinely love their country or their government and feel genuinely defensive when they encounter criticism from others, particularly people in “the West” whom they feel are disturbingly ignorant about what life in China is like.

    These very same people even often criticize their own government and country when talking amongst themselves. Sure, it is annoying that they seemingly congeal together the moment a dissenting voice is non-Chinese, but to categorically assume any defense of China by Chinese people as being a state-programmed response is a bit disingenuous and treats Chinese people like idiots. In many cases, such an accusation by someone says more about the accuser than the Chinese person being accused. It smacks of someone who feels it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone else to have a different thought/feeling/position than what the accuser holds dear.

    “Like, OMG, how could they possibly love their own China?! Isn’t it, like, OBVIOUS that it is a monolithic, repressive propaganda state with, like, ZERO, hope for its citizens?!? Like, duh!”

    People who hold onto this conception of China do a disservice to the Chinese people, treating them like idiots. If there is a problem to be solved (and there are many), the first step is not to MISUNDERSTAND or REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND the actual problem. Too many non-Chinese (like Ann) prefer to ASSUME that all Chinese (if they were, you know, “human”) would agree with every criticism, complaint, and prescription by those seeking to fix China.

    To be sure, there are plenty of idiots in China who have failed to think critically but an honest discussion begins when you first give the other side the benefit of the doubt and assume they are as capable of rational thought as you are. When there are disagreements, there ought to be some evaluation before jumping to the “you’re an idiot who can’t think for yourself” conclusion. A difference of opinion alone is not enough. A Chinese person who thinks the CCP, despite all its flaws, have managed to actually help conditions in China improve over the past 20-30 years and is happy about it is NOT necessarily a Communist drone (At that point, you ask them if the misery of the Cultural Revolution was necessary to get China to this point or not, heh). It is a bad start to immediately doubt the sincerity of what the other side says.

    Again, there are many valid and legitimate criticisms of problems in China, but assuming right off the bat that any Chinese who is defensive of China to be a robot automaton reciting the propaganda of the central government is a lazy way of assessing the problem of engaging the Chinese in rational discourse regarding the problems China needs to overcome.

    Ann is so far from actually understanding this that I BEG you to avoid making her feel like she is saying anything remotely wise and intelligent beyond what has already been said by far more rational and non-hypocritical individuals on this website.

  • Mike

    This has gone WAY off topic. Hooray.

  • Samael

    Ann

    I think you’ve misunderstood my ‘question’ which wasn’t really a question at all but rather a comment to highlight something that i noticed in your reply. basically you commented that there are ‘independent thinkers’ emerging in China because they are speaking about human rights. this ‘link’ as it were, is pretty obvious since it goes against the grain. these human right activists are therefore subversive and as such ‘thinkers’ rather than ‘ignorants’.

    this assumption is pretty common even in western societies where liberals are generally perceived to be somehow more intelligent and more independent by the simple virtual of being ‘liberals’ (or ‘support for the liberal movement’).

    coming back to my point, i think its rather naive to simply say ‘oh he is for human rights, he must be an independent thinker, and this guy is rather patriotic and defensive about his government, he must be brainwashed’. as you’ve stated yourself you are aware of the growning access to foreign information and ideas by Chinese. its entirely possible that such human rights activist were simply inspired by and subsequently conforming to populist liberal ideals of the west, rather than really think about contemporary Chinese society and ways to improve its condition.

    there is ‘human rights’, and then there is ‘human rights’ after all.

    By simply dismissing any show of support for their government as not thinking independently is a dangerous proposition in that it alienates these people and further exacerbates misunderstandings between cultures.

  • stupidbs

    This is stupid.
    At worst, a drunken brawl. Any reason why these Chinese nationalists look for ANY excuse to get into a fist fight? The inability to look dignified and composed is the reason for the perpetual stereotype that China is a nation of barbaric violent fustrated militants. If anything, this was a stupid dorm room fight. Why are these nationalists treating it like the Cultural Revolution? At least have something to fight about. When are they going to learn that patriotism does NOT equal fistfights with people who AREN’T Chinese?
    As far as i remember, these individuals who are complaining about foriegners making trouble in their “homelands” forgot about the riots that Chinese students stirred up, where they beat up innocent mothers and grandmothers, elderly and young. Did they forget that?
    Why must nationalism “naturally” permutate into violence? If not for the fact that these young nationalists don’t have the proper means to express their nationalism except for the barbaric act of violence?

  • Moose

    Its obvious and out in the open for all to see from the report and many others like it, Chinese people look for any opportunity to get ‘one up’ on any other nationality or perceived ethnic group. Once thats over, they turn on each other!

  • Fuller

    @krdr
    “You know, when I talk to Americans, Britons, French, Germans,… none of them would say anything bad against their country and government, no matter how bad government are. They always think about image of their country.”

    I can’t speak for the other countries, but man c’mon people have been soooooooo critical of the Bush government for the last…oh….8 years?! And they’ve been critical in a very straight-forward, in your face, frequently insulting manner. That’s the nature of politics in the US and Canada these days. If you’re not critical of something in the government, you’re a social leper.

    Maybe you mean that they’re not critical when talking to people of other countries? Again, my experience has been otherwise, especially with US/Bush talk.

  • Samael

    Perhaps you should look at the concept of nationalism and the construct of the ‘nation’ itself (an idea invented in the 17th century and began to take foot in China in the early 20th century. Thats right, there were no nations before the 17th century) rather than calling these people stupid.

    when has a high dose of nationalism not permutated into unnecessary violence?

  • Boz

    above post @stupidbs

  • Samael

    zz wtf i didnt change my name..

  • C*inkUnit

    @Ann,

    You didn’t pay attention to what I’m saying. Collectivism: proven to not work! How do you organize A COMPLEX SYSTEM such as a society by regulating everything???

    How old are you?

    @EFChang:

    Individualism works in a hunter-gather society… In our society, no. Your other definition of individualism is total b.s. Again, won’t work in OUR MODERN DAY SOCIETY. You think you are an individual, but you ARE NOT. There are many factors involved here…

    The moral of the story is modern society is doomed to fail. We’re trying to control entropy. It’s impossible.

  • Rick in China

    @krdr RE: “You know, when I talk to Americans, Britons, French, Germans,… none of them would say anything bad against their country and government”

    You’re nuts, maybe you don’t speak to them in a way or about a topic which this becomes an issue – but uh..trust me, people from western nations LOVE to critique their own governments. I criticize Canada all the time. I acknowledge the good, of which there is a lot, but I am fully willing to criticize all of the bad. Most of my friends are the same about their own countries, it’s not just a “bad bad bad” or “good good good” – but a relatively balanced perspective, averaging of course since individuals have more/less love/distaste for their own nation.

    @Fuller You’re right.

  • krdr

    @Ann and Rick

    I didn’t hear any US citizens to say: We are so shitty country, we have Bush as president, we all are just bunch of stupid guys… It is more like to say: Yeah, he made mistakes, but we are still the greatest country on the world.

    Brits are: “That’s our problem”. Italians, if they dislikes government would rather not to talk about it, but did you see Pipo’s goal last Saturday…

    Attitude is different.

    Maybe, today is a fashion to be against Bush and pro Obama. Maybe, Bush is so bad that people have inner urge to talk about him, but they are still proud citizens of USA.
    Rick (you are Canadian, aren’t you?), if you don’t like your Prime Minister, you’ll not tell me that Canada is worst of all countries, or anything what Ann said about China (as I presume, she is Chinese).

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ krdr:

    Thanks for illustrating a point I was hoping people could understand. People from anywhere will default to being defensive about their countries. How willing they are to engage in reasonable discussions about their country’s problems is another thing. We like to pick on Chinese youth being really defensive about China, but to be honest, there are just as many ignorant and blindly patriotic (or nationalistic) youth in many other countries, especially the United States. Doesn’t anyone remember those mid-western youth driving around in their trucks harassing Middle-Easterners after 9/11?

    I won’t deny that Chinese people on a whole seem to be far more defensive and less willing to engage in reasoned discourse than many other countries. I do wonder if it is like that simply because there are so many more Chinese or if there really is relatively more Chinese people who are simply incapable of discussing China’s faults/shortcomings without resorting to being insecure, defensive, and immature. I’m not sure. We can only be sure that “angry youth” certainly are loud.

    I think this really depends on who you meet. I think a good amount of Americans and Westerners who travel abroad are capable of trying to be objective when discussing their own country’s problems but I think most will defend their country the moment the opposing opinion becomes too extreme, when the other side is no longer interested in just discussing the problem and seems intent on trashing a country.

    I think a lot of defensive Chinese are this way. For many Chinese, it feels like the West and Westerners are constantly complaining, criticizing, and pointing out why China is not as good as their own countries. It has built up to a point where they will react with the same anger and defensiveness towards ANYONE who makes a comment about China they don’t like, even those who want to have and are capable of having an honest and mutually respectful discussion. Feeling attacked yet again, Chinese (like others) often resort to attacking back, trying to “show” the other side how they are also bad, hoping to remove the moral pedestal they think the other side is standing on.

    All of the emotions are quite human, I think. Yes, there’s propaganda and misinformation by the government, but I’m not really sold on the idea that the Chinese reaction is wholly state-programmed. I think most people in the world behave similarly.

    There’s no requirement to hate your own country in order to acknowledge and recognize its own faults.

    That said, I’m not really sure what you (krdr) are asking Rick or Ann to say.

  • krdr

    @Kai

    Question is quite simple: If their country is currently headed by dumb guy, should they be ashamed of whole country? Sure, Ann is ashamed of Bush, does it means that she should be ashamed of USA?

  • Rick in China

    @krdr RE: “Rick (you are Canadian, aren’t you?), if you don’t like your Prime Minister, you’ll not tell me that Canada is worst of all countries”

    You’re taking it to extremes to make your point, which makes your point invalid. People don’t say “MY COUNTRY IS SO SHITTY”, that was never my point, nor anything I said. Read again:
    “Most of my friends are the same about their own countries, it’s not just a “bad bad bad” or “good good good” – but a relatively balanced perspective, averaging of course since individuals have more/less love/distaste for their own nation.”

    *sigh* I don’t know how you can take that and compare it to “We are so shitty country, we have Bush as president, we all are just bunch of stupid guys”.

    @Kai RE: “but I think most will defend their country the moment the opposing opinion becomes too extreme”
    I agree with your points, and don’t think there’s any contradiction between my points. I think it’s rightful to stop people in their tracks when they are intent on being offensive or too extreme. That being said, you also mention that here, it becomes a point where it’s not just an extreme criticism – but any criticism which is met with strong opposition and force, any at all, all too often. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make, but krdr is intent on taking that point and reading it as all-or-nothing as opposed to the whole idea of having a different “line in the sand” with modern foreign nationals being, on average, on a much more lenient to criticism side. (not going to mention the extreme westerners who have never left, like, western Pennsylvania.)

  • Teacher in China

    @ Kai
    Ok, I admit it, I am actually Ann in disguise trying to add some legitimacy to her arguments ;)
    The fact of the matter is that when someone flip flops and has such varying view points they’re bound to hit something useful eventually. This is the part I read (along with other posts from other users) that started me thinking about Friere:

    They (Chinese youth) are deprived of the opportunity for self-direction and self-examination. They live in a world of being told what is right or wrong by to their teachers, government, government sponsored news media

    Again, from what I see in my situation is that my students in their Chinese classes are not given the opportunity to think for themselves. It’s simply assimilation and regurgitation of facts and old Chinese poems and math formulas. There’s no application; no thinking on a higher level of Bloom’s taxonomy.
    At one point in your post you state:

    an honest discussion begins when you first give the other side the benefit of the doubt and assume they are as capable of rational thought as you are. When there are disagreements, there ought to be some evaluation before jumping to the “you’re an idiot who can’t think for yourself” conclusion

    Now I’m a little rusty on the book I was talking about, but I’m sure that I didn’t imply anywhere that Chinese people were idiots. Just because someone is involved in the “banking education” system doesn’t make them idiots. What I see in my situation are not idiotic students. I see very bright and capable people who simply hit a wall when faced with something involving application, synthesis or evaluation. My interest in this discussion comes from the fact that I think that method of education creates a certain type of people. Now, are Chinese these types of people? I think yes and no. I think they were for sure. I think modern Chinese are changing a lot now, and the education system just hasn’t caught up with that yet.
    I think most of your post was directed at Ann though, as I went out of my way to say that I didn’t think Chinese people were automatons…

    @krdr
    You are right. Students will become what is poured in their head. That’s not Chinese, or oppressive regimes specialty. Every society tries to educate kids in way that it feels proper.In USA, kids are full of patriotic shit of greatest of all democracy, etc, etc… In UK, kids learns that they are the most civilized of all the nation…. In every society, kids are told myths, and kids believes in that myths. It is the way how culture is passed from generation to generation.
    I disagree. It’s not done to the same extent in the west (at least not in Canada anyway) as it is here. For example, we have a historical figure by the name of Louis Riel – he’s very controversial as some people think he was a traitor and some think he was a hero. In history class, the teacher lets the student decide what he/she thinks about that Riel. As long as the student can argue his/her point logically, no problem. When we’re studying poetry, we’re not told to memorize a poem and regurgitate it on a test or exam for marks. That’s totally pointless and doesn’t achieve anything. We analyze it, and again the students are allowed to come to conclusions that differ from the teacher as long as they can back up their arguments with sufficient evidence. In math, we’re not just showing that we memorized the formula and can plug different numbers into it and calculate the result, we apply the formulas to different things (forgive me if this one is weak, math isn’t my specialty).

  • krdr

    @Rick

    Nor I said that was your point. It is Ann’s point. I put two of you in same basket, which I shouldn’t. Receive my apologies.

  • krdr

    @Teacher in China

    I’m not expert in Canadian educational system, so I’m thankful on your insight. What you’ve missed is:
    Every society tries to educate kids in way that it feels proper.
    Canada feels that is proper to educate kids in the way you described. I personally think that is good way.

    Here, in Europe, every nation have sets of myths. Some countries insist more, some less. In “myths”, I also considered how some nation see themselves. Serbs sees themselves as heroic and clever, Italians as great lovers, cooks and singers. Spaniards as passionate ones.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ krdr:

    No, they should not necessarily be ashamed of their whole country because a “country” is much more than just its government. A person should only be “ashamed of their whole country” if they hate more things about their country than they like about it. So, for example, an American can hate Bush or even problems within America, but they do not necessarily need to hate America as a country or concept. The same can be said for Chinese people in China.

    I think we’re thinking the same thing but we’ve misunderstood each other’s English.

    @ Rick in China:

    As I said above, I think we’re having communication problems with krdr because English is not his native language. I suspect we actually agree but the way he tried explaining certain things led us to misunderstand what point he’s trying to make.

    I think we largely agree, especially that different people have different limits. The main problem, I see, with a lot of “defensive” Chinese is an inability to differentiate when one can have a reasoned discussion with a non-Chinese, when ignoring the Westerner is appropriate, and when that foreigner may need to be reminded that their shit stinks too. But as I elaborated above, I believe there are very understandable, very human, reasons for what we typically consider insecure, unreasonable, defensive Chinese behavior. We have to hope that the Chinese as a whole can start rising above it, and feel more secure and confident in having point-driven discussions rather than mutual mud-slinging and whining. I believe as China comes into its place in the world, and with time, this should improve.

    @ Teacher in China:

    Blasphemy! Ann reminds me of the worst stereotypes of the “Westerners” that piss off the most intellectual and rational Chinese people. She delights in casting blame and judgment without trying to understand the actual problems she thinks she has the answers for.

    Anyway, the great irony was her flip-flopping until she was claiming to be arguing for the very principles/points she was originally condemning. Sigh.

    The part you quoted me was not directed at you personally. I was just expounding on my point. It was not an accusation against you specifically. The “you” was not personal. I trust you understood my points though. My comment would, of course, be applicable to anyone who thinks Chinese people are categorically brainwashed idiots.

    I agree that the Chinese education system and cultural socialization tends to emphasize certain things (like rote memorization) differently than other countries and cultures. There are well-researched notable but general benefits and disadvantages for these various systems, most of which we’ve all heard a zillion times before.

    My personal belief is that increased globalization and the ease of communicating with people from different parts of the world (via, say, the internet) is going to affect the socialization of Chinese in profound ways. This isn’t going to make Chinese people turn into “Westerners” with the same “Western” ideology and modes of thought, much less overnight, but it will have an effect. If there’s one thing I think many of the posts here on chinaSMACK evidence is that Chinese people are NOT all brainwashed automatons and they have a wide spectrum of opinions, thoughts, and ideas, many of which do NOT tow the Communist party line.

    I think many Westerners PREFER to dumb down the Chinese and think of them as all victims of the evil monolithic propaganda state. It is easier to do this because it isolates a single “enemy” and creates a dynamic where the “enlightened Westerner” is fighting the good fight trying to unshackle the “poor brainwashed Chinese” from some abstract evil and ignorance. This is not to say there is no ignorance or evil, but this is a TERRIBLE dehumanizing platform to build a relationship between the two sides on.

  • krdr

    @Kai

    Yes, we are on same line about this.

  • fable2

    is this Ann person white or chinese?
    in any case she’s a real nutter.

  • Teacher in China

    @Kai
    Agreed completely! :)

    @krdr
    Ok I see. I just think the way that the Chinese have chosen to educate isn’t applicable anymore. It may have been in the past – from what I understand things have been much the same since people studied and memorized exams to get into the emperor’s court. I also understand that things seem to be changing at the younger age levels. Elementary school teachers are apprently more likely to institute more creative and/or interesting approaches in their classrooms. Hopefully, this continues so that we don’t see people sleeping in politics class anymore… ;)

  • krdr

    @Teacher

    Not only the China have same problem. Lot of East Europe education systems facing same problems. You can not teach old dogs new tricks, so, to reform the system, new kind of teachers are needed.

    Serbia started reform of high education according to Bologna declaration. Reforms failed due strong resist from older professors.

    Truth is that reforms in education should never stops. It is continuous process.

  • Ark

    Chinese are so immature, give it another 50 years every child will start to sing da national anthem whenever they are bitten by an insect….had a cold…or got scolded by their mother

  • Yan Hong

    Meh. The Japs should not cause trouble in a foreign country, yes, but the Chinese cannot draw blood. It is hard to restrain, but it will cause big incident if we were to beat them to death. One we are not willing to make, as we need the Japanese, despite everything, as our friends. We need the Koreans as our friends. We need as many people as possible as our friends.

    Nor should we go and sing the National Anthem to wake up the International House. We were troubled by the Japanese from sleep, so we go and wake the rest of the foreigners as well? That is extreme stupidity, and this is university. Lynching people is merely a short term option.

    I’m glad that the security knows what TRUE Chinese values are, and that the important people in charge know this as well.

  • Teacher in China

    @Kai

    Apparently I have a Chinese doppelganger! This was on the latest Chinasmack story as a translated Chinese post:

    “When I got to university, in the midst of different events and activities, I finally realised I did not know how to do anything, that I had to think on my own, and it was very difficult to have my own ideas. It was then that I realized that we have already lost our creativity. Who should be blamed? I think the teachers are innocent, and the blame lies on the whole society’s education system.”

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ Teacher in China:

    Nah, a lot of Chinese people feel that way. Have you seen the post about Tsinghua university’s website being hacked? More there.

  • Teacher in China

    @Kai
    Yeah I did see that one. Hilarious! That hacker is my hero.

  • http://n/a Mike

    The difference between your average Chinese person and a civilized one: An amazing ability to over-react.

    Have a party at night out of doors and they’ll flip their lid. Me? Well, I don’t sleep too well most nights. If it’s not the students living above me playing some sort of screaming game, then it’s the gate guards talking noisily outside my window while sitting on my electric bicycle and smoking, or the construction workers next door banging away on something at 2:30 in the morning. I’ve offered a non-confrontational “Please be quiet, we’re sleeping. Thank you.” How offen does that work with these inconsiderate Chinese? Rarely.

  • Ron

    It is so obvious that these japanese are stupid.

    • Fike2308

      I think the Chinese reaction was stupider.

  • http://www.communistchinaFTL.com JUN HWAGI

    Maybe China needs to get raped one more time…

  • SniperWZ

    Maybe Korea needs to be occupied and colonized by the Japs again, and take Japanese names and provide some comfort women…or maybe just split it up into two harmless entities, oh wait, nevermind…

  • Fede

    Well, as I see, behind a riot for drunkness there is a lot of racial hate…I have been living in different countries and now I am living in Japan. In here I am foreigner and I will always be considered like that, but the situation is not different in Europe..A Chinese will be always considered an “almond eyes person” and not an European. We also have a lot of nationalism and in general each countries hate other countries and there’s a lot of ethnic controversy.
    And by the way, Chinese are not beloved in Europe, not even in my country, Italy, where we experienced some troubles in Milano, where the local community (frustrated also by the racist attitude of Italian) decided to make a small revolution: they burnt the Italian flags and took out Chines ones screaming “this is not Italy this is Chinese territory!”…….no comment about that.
    What I am trying to say is that it’s so stupid to see people blaming other countries people if they misact or misbehave. Why don’t you start to look at the “shit you have under your roof”? I mean, Chinese wake up, you live in a dictatorship, you “remember” what Japanese did to you, but most of your young people don’t know what happened in Tiananmen square in 1989….The Yellow river the Blue River have disappeared because of the increasing pollution, your people is dying for cancer and chemical pollution, your people still kill baby girl and you have too many men….and you blame drunk Japanese people? ahahah…com’on….It’s like when I hear Italian (I am Italian) complaining because there are too many Rumenian and Albanian who kill and rape and robber and bring a lot of violence…and then the 15% of the Italian Parliament are facing trial for corruption and other crimes.
    I hate when people speak only because they have been indoctrinated, start to use you brain, start to read not only your national newspaper, start to get INFORMED!!! Ignorance is the worst thing in the world, and powerful people love ignorant people!
    About Japanese apologies, why the Chinese government never speak about all the amount of money that receive from Japan to finance many different projects? Chinese apologized for the atrocities they committed in the far past or in the present (for example Cristian North Korean Refuges?)?
    What I am saying is, that people should get angry to their own politicians and dictators instead of looking for scapegoats!!!
    And about apologies: did Americans ever apologised for the A-bomb in Japan???????? Or for Vietnam war? or for Korea War? (just for those Americans who commented about Japanese apology matter)

    • A Brit

      Most of your comment was spot on but Korea? Wasn’t it N Korea starting it by invading S Korea and American troops?

      I can’t blame America for bombing an enemy in war to stop it.

      As for Vietnam, America was in a cold war against Russia. North Viets were using a communist insurgency to take over South Vietnam. Concern was if Vietnam became communist neighbourin countries would also, like Laos, Cambodia became. Russia also got a large Navy Base. America was understandably apprehensive.

      Your point may be better if you were arguing Iraq.

  • http://rense.com rape-hahaha

    The commie dog leadership brainwashed the Chinese people to hate the Japanese… distracting the Chinese people from the real issues at home. Once a common foreign enemy is established, convenient demonisation is easy. Say Nanjing or Yasukuni Shrine and Chinese people foam at the mouth… this is entirely Pavlovian conditioning.

    The commie dogs are grandmasters of propaganda, of asserting a national pride ‘us vs them’ BS. Can’t put down last century’s baggage and move on.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTZmC9RJw1E 父親

      you mean the way america uses terorism to distract people from them robbing iraq for oil? yes. thats a great strategy. i should have thought of that sooner. if the commiees are grand masters then you should at least be an honorary grand master dog. i suppose true ass hole countries like the u.s. dont even need to distract anyone, they just openly use the cia to fund terorism, kidnap, torture, imprison people, force countries to do business with them. arm israel to launch a genocide against the palestinians.

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    @ rape-hahaha:

    LoL, oh the irony of your own comment illustrating your own point.

  • Pingback: Is it ultra-Nationalistic Jap hating time again already? | A China Blog on Suzhou Expat Life | The Humanaught

  • http://yahoo jajang

    FUCK YOU CHINA..FUCK FUCK FUCK….YOU ARE SO FUCCCCCCCCCCCCCK..DAMNED

  • Wang Qing

    If the Chinese want people to take them seriously, they should have lynched the Japs really badly.

    200 Chinese versus 10 Japs and the Japs escaped unhurt! WTF???!!!

  • http://126 mr. zhao

    what are you talking about?

  • Mike

    you guys are SOFT how u gonna let those dirty japs kick ur ass in ur own territory? FUCK THEM UP and give them a taste of their own medicine so they won’t fuck around again. If i was there i’d make those fucking japs eat my shit.

  • Veer Left

    Hahaha… the problem is Mikey… you’d probably only try after you had 10:1 odds.

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