Yasukuni Shrine Website Hacked By Chinese?

I assume you are Chinese? Would you like it if someone in Japan did that same thing to a Chinese site? Human nature is what cave men used for survival. In the civilized world we do to others as we would have them do to us.

@ Bobby Boberton:

You misunderstand. I’m not saying its right or wrong, I’m just saying it is human nature to often delight in “sticking it” to others even if one wouldn’t appreciates it happening in reverse.

Also, come on, you know you’d have a hard time arguing that the “civilized” only abides by the golden rule and is never hypocritical.

cavemen hit each others head with clubs. now we hack each others sites. sounds pretty human nature to me. In fact you have civilization to thank for that, just be glad we don’t rely on hitting each other anymore, using anything.

Hackers always go for the easy targets. Websites that are not using the latest security patch or just very lax security configuration. Anyway, its a nice and cheap way to get attention. I don’t think the Japanese will be standing still. There will always be extremist elements in society who will up the one brickmanship.

I hope most people have better use for their time rather than stir up the Japanese.

I love this comment:

“Boycott Japanese goods (Japanese women excluded).”

Sometimes I wonder what is going on in the minds of the many young Chinese men who violently hate Japan, yet spend much of their free time (insert self-pleasure metaphor here) while watching Japanese porn. I think China needs to have some 改革开放 in the world of pornography, and create some patriotic spank material for the young men of China. I do not think Chinese underwear magazines can really compete with that sick, sick Japanese porn. Until one can buy used panties from vending machines in the streets of Taiyuan, we can never be free from this curse.

阎锡山

I think a hacker war would be very entertaining. With regards to Yan, I also found that comment about (Japanese women excluded) extremely funny.

Japanese porn is a bit overrated though. Too much whining, and too manufactured. Chinese porn and korean porn are much more realistic and interesting to watch.

Japanese women in reality are also very easy to get. Can’t help but think how I’m doing my country proud everytime I pick up a Japanese girl ;).

This meddling in another country’s internal affairs has hurt the feelings of all Japanese people …

Alright the time is now!!! Release the nanotechnology placed in the playstations and PSP’s that will be the end of the Chinese!!! LOL. Once I had this fantasy of going to the Shrine and tossing red paint on the shrine, stirpping to nothing and covering myself in a Chinese flag while I pleasure myself. I would be the new “lei feng”!!!

Oh wait, then I realized I am Canadian and that wouldn’t quite work. hahahah

we have been hurt by everybody, then we go hurt everybody, simply logic, everybody is trying to fcuking everybody.

@’hackers’
Working in the software business and playing with computers for the last 16 years has taught me much about the wannabe skriptkiddiez and braggarts posting their pasted knowledge on forums and such – hackers do not claim to be hackers, period, zip it. Reading insecure.org type sites or CotDC type sites and finding out of date servers that don’t patch their shit and walking through step by step instructions don’t make you a hacker.

@Topic
This is clearly the best marketing ever. As someone mentioned above, the site was not likely frequently visited – shit like this pumps massive traffic through from people who would otherwise not likely visit – not to mention the fact changing the site back to the original is not exactly a challenging task. This is equiv to skank singer bitches flashing their panty-less snatches when they gettin out of a car in hollywood, getting in the news in any form bumps their celebrity profile significantly. If the kids who changed the site are Chinese, they certainly fucked the goat on this one – pushing this site into “Everyone go look” stardome.

In any case, I agree with Bobby’s thought that it’s highly hypocritical – I mean – it’s the classic case of poor dude wins the lottery and immediately starts to point down at other poor people, as soon as the crybaby bitch on the bottom gets their first triumph they turn into that which they were protesting.. “Why you oppressing us???” then “HAH fuckers take that” – blatant hypocrisy, grow up.

@YC
RE: “who owes no duty to you (but only to the management)”
You’re missing the point here, first of all, he owes duty to *the public*, society, that’s why RULES in society exist. Whether they are enforced strictly or not is irrelevant to whether or not they ‘should’ be followed. In addition, I would assume you’ve lived in some farmer city as opposed to, say, Shanghai, where the rules are much more strictly followed and enforced in general. By mentioning to the dude that he should not smoke in a non-smoking area he is doing the PUBLIC a favor.

RE: “It was your own culturally insensitivity” Are you implying that, if you ask the average Chinese citizen, “Should you follow rules laid out by the Chinese government for the betterment of society?” they would say “NO, You should do as you please.”? That’s what it sounds like you’re saying to me, or, well, you simply don’t understand the culture which you claim to be defending.

RE: “bronx”

I don’t think you know shit about the Bronx – 1/2 of the racial make-up in the Bronx is hispanic.

RE: “This is something for you to consider….” I suggest you consider unzipping my pants with yer teeth, your nonsense soap-boxing is done.

Apparently that website has been under DOS attack since September.

Russian hackers have been attacking Estonia, Lithuania, Georgia, and United States computers for quite some time now.

As for porn, while I’m interested in the subject, I can not intelligently discuss the difference between Chinese, Japanese, or Korean varieties. Here it’s all called Asian.

“The fact is that Fcuk failed to conform to the culture in China where certain rules aren’t enforced. As I mentioned, he had no legal right to enforce the laws that were laid by the institution he was staying in. He also failed to take into account that many rules in China aren’t enforced as strictly as in Canada.”

Why have rules then? How is someone to know which rules are “real” and which ones are safe to ignore? If people can’t stand up and say breaking the rules is bad, who should?

Even in America he would not have an entitlement to personally stop someone from smoking.

In America this is very common. Perhaps the smoker just didn’t see the sign? Pointing out that it is a non-smoking area is polite and expected, as is telling them where they can smoke. Flipping out and turning it into a racial and/or cultural thing is what we call ‘over-reacting’.

“…Are you going to confront him?”

Of course. It is the responsibility of every citizen to make sure that the rules are followed. Not just the popular rules. And not just people smaller than you.

Do not expect police or management to save you. Save yourself.

Samuel, in Australia you can only make a citizens arrest if a person is breaking a law that is punishible as an indictible offence with the sanction of imprisonment. Depending on the jurisidiction you will be looking at either common law or the criminal code. Without going into more detail, I think you get the idea.

Without a legal justification such as delegated authority or performing a citizens arrest, you have no entitlement to stop someone doing something such as smoking in a public place. Otherwise you will be convicted of assault or false imprisonment.

I agree that this news may only bring more visitors to that website, but I doubt it is going to help the Yasukuni Shrine or extreme right-wing interpretation of WW2 history. The hacking itself might make the Chinese hackers look immature, but overall, the effect of this news is about the same as Kozumi visiting the shrine: it just reminds most people how controversial or outrageous Japanese revisionism is and the enmity between revisionists and those who oppose/despise them.

@ YC:

I think you should’ve written all of this in the topic FDLR posted his story.

You are right, doing what is right and doing what is wise can be different. However, I don’t think it was reasonable to expect FDLR to have considered all of the interpersonal dynamics (of authority, etc.) you suggested at that time (which were quite astute BTW). He made a polite request as one patron to another with reference to a clearly visible sign representing the establishment’s rules.

I’m sure he understood and continues to understand that not all rules are followed or enforced strictly in China, but that is no reason for him to accept the situation. Moreover, what he did was not unreasonable even in the context of a lax enforcement society. To always be mindful or conformist to establish norms would preclude a lot of “good” changes in society.

Also, I don’t think FDLR had any thoughts of his “entitlement” to enforce the law. I think he merely doesn’t like people smoking around him when he’s specifically chosen a place that forbids smoking and thought a polite request was an entirely reasonable thing to do. You can even consider his request to the smoker as one person asking a favor of another.

Finally, both you and I agree that the other guy was an ass. I think that’s pretty much all there is worth noting about the incident.

@ YC:

Also, all this talk of legality is going off track. I don’t remember what post FDLR’s story was in for me to review but, come on, the matter between FDLR and the smoker was not about legality. Him asking the guy to stop smoking was not him enforcing the law. It was him asking another patron to observe the rules of the premises. He only considered his physical abilities the moment the other guy became confrontational. And who wouldn’t? Unless I mistakenly remember the sequence of the story’s events, you’re making FDLR sound like he got in the guy’s face and physically threatened him to make him stop smoking.

@YC

I didn’t mean to seem ill-mannered. Hello, and well met.

There are 1.3 billion Chinese people and only 1.5 million police officers. Individuals may not have a legal basis for asking another citizen to follow the rules, but shouldn’t moral authority be enough to authorize their request?

If you see someone picking up litter, would you say thank you? If you see someone in trouble, would you not help? It is no different if you see someone doing the wrong thing. It doesn’t matter if it’s popular to ignore the rules, it only matters that there are rules in place and all citizens interested in an orderly society have a vested interest in seeing those rules upheld.

I’m not saying you should beat someone up because they’re smoking, or littering, or jaywalking. I would never advocate violence. But I’m also no coward. The only reason people ignore no smoking signs is because they can. And those little things are a symptom of a much larger problem.

I just don’t understand how you can say that corruption is a major problem in China, but that individual citizens should have no authority to request that rules be followed. Who is going to do it for you?

Kai, after reading the article more closely. The more likely scenario that I would imagine actually happened was that Fcuk went to grab the cigarette (unlawfully i might add) from the man, and the man said ‘don’t touch me’, upon which Fcuck effectively decked the guy. The guy who is decked uses the race card to get nationalistic support to wrongly get fcuck arrested. Are we supposed to sympathise with Fcuk who took the law into his own hands? I certainly don’t!

@ YC:

Making presumptions of what happened contrary to the only record we have is NOT rational thought.

Now FDLR can respond to your list of questions himself but I’ll give you my answers based upon what we can reasonably judge from the narrative given:

1.) Yes, FDLR is legally allowed to request a fellow patron to not smoke.

2.) Yes, FDLR was able to exercise his legal right to make a request by opening his mouth and emitting sound.

3.) There are many potential consequences, and the most reasonable consequence was that the man would kindly put out his cigarette in observance of the establishment’s rules. Him refusing to do so could be imagined but even in China, it is NOT expected that people would 1) refuse to honor a simple request especially when the rules are advertised and 2) then proceed to malign you in hopes of getting bystanders to beat your ass.

4.) In FDLR’s case, being able to enjoy his time at the non-smoking coffee shop without having to breathe in second-hand smoke.

5.) The reasonable cost was the effort expended to make the request. It is, again, unreasonable for FDLR much less anyone else to expect that the man would be so arrogant, rude, and malicious. Are you seriously blaming FDLR for assuming that the smoker was a reasonable man?

6.) Yes, FDLR was able to open his mouth and emit sound. That sound was according to the only narrative we have, a polite request.

Look, you may doubt FDLR’s story or version of events, but unless you were there as witness (or you’re the smoker), it is all that we have to go on. Insofar as the story is inaccurate, incomplete, or wrong, we ALL reserve the right to retract our sympathy or understanding. THIS is “rational” whereas fabricating your own version of events in order to justify your own antagonism towards him relative to this issue is NOT.

Out of the blue a foreigner comes and challenges his authority.

Are you serious? “Authority?” Since when did anyone have the “authority” to smoke wherever they want? They have the FREEDOM to smoke constrained by the property they are on AND with whom they share. If he refuses to comply, the establishment can remove him because it is their property. A fellow patron may not remove him but the patron MAY COMMUNICATE their opinion or request.

He clearly feels this foreigner has no right telling him what to do.

He also feels intimidated and embarrassed, that a visitor in his country is demanding what even a normal Chinese citizen would not ask AND furthermore speaks in Chinese.

Yet another presumption. Your premise (“what even a normal Chinese citizen would not ask”) is false and therefore your conclusion (FDRL’s request was inappropriate) is wrong. There is absolutely no support for your premise beyond your own assumption. Even if the sum total of your personal experience suggests it, how are you going to reconcile it with the fact that I can tell you, also from personal experience, that many normal Chinese citizens ask others to observe the rules.

We agree that he is embarrassed, maybe intimidated (at least after FDLR stood up) and yes, he doesn’t think the foreigner should tell him what to do. That’s why he is an idiotic ass not very deserving of any sympathy to coddle his insecure arrogance.

4.) Now next, listen to what Fcuck said in his comment:

At this point he stood up, I stood up and he said “dont touch me lao wai” and then proceeded to grab my arm.

I was a bit confused reading this, because from reading it in the order that its placed. It appears contradictory that the Chinese man said ‘don’t touch me Lao Wai’ when Fcuck claims the Chinese man grabbed his arm.

Why not first ask FDLR to clarify instead of making assumptions? What would’ve been the more “rational” thing for you to do, Mr. Rationality?

I responded to this point of his story as well and I suggested that the man, afraid of FDLR “touching” him, instinctively reached out to block/stop FDLR from doing so. This is not an uncommon reflex action, similar to extending your arms to stop someone you feel is charging at you. Note my comment where I said it was ironic that he asked FDLR not to touch him yet actually touched FDLR himself.

Have you been in a physical confrontation before?

Now, if FDLR comes and says “you’re right, I made the first move, and then he grabbed my arm…” then my position would change. However, I think you’re overlooking a very real explanation and citing it as an “inconsistency” or FDLR intentionally and maliciously leaving out a critical detail to gain sympathy.

5.) Next Fcuk overreacts, forcibly sweeps him and gets him in a kneeling position in front of the other people and even possibly his wife. He has his fist in place ready to beat him to a pulp. He describes this in the post with great pride of his bouncing/law enforcement/competitive fighting background.

This I will agree with you as an overreaction that a normal person would unlikely do. Yet, without determining right or wrong, a normal person does not have FDLR’s self-proclaimed bouncing/law enforcement/competitive fighting background. So FDLR’s background prompted him in reacting swiftly and decisively in a heated situation, perhaps to his detriment. He’s only human, and maybe his own instincts/reflexive actions were faster than his ability to consider all of the social context you’ve been so kind to hash out above. And, again, based upon the record we have, the smoker instigated and made first contact.

So the smoker was an ass and was embarrassed by FDLR, and in embarrassing the smoker, FDLR found himself in a whole shitload of trouble. Sometimes things just don’t work out peacefully…but are you seriously suggesting that FDLR’s actions are so unreasonable or so utterly foreign to an environment like China’s?

We all understand why the race card was played. It is still pathetic.

The only point that has weight with your whole reconstructive argument is that FDLR’s reaction was excessive. I can agree with that but at the same time I don’t find it surprising whatsoever that someone with some physical combat training is capable of being far more effective and efficient in physical confrontations. I can comfortably acknowledge that even as I criticize the smoker for being not just inconsiderate but also rude, arrogant, confrontational, and an insecure, lying scumbag.

You have fabricated and convinced yourself of an entirely separate sequence of events. That is NOT rational. According to the only testimony we have, we can rationally conclude that FDLR did not set out to take “the law into his own hands” but at most excessively subdued a perceived assailant. FDLR made a polite request, he did not get physical until the other party did so. Insofar as this narrative is accurate, FDLR can claim defense, but I am not sure how a court of law would rule on whether it was “excessive” or not.

But in a society such as China its disadvantageous to always pursue a moral vendetta.

It being disadvantageous does not mean one should not do so. I don’t think FDLR was pursuing a “moral vendetta” either, much less “always” doing so. Even in China, many people do things that are disadvantageous or endure discomfort to pursue the things that matter to them. Maybe you should channel all your anti-FDLRness towards all the signatories of Charter 08? We all know how disadvantageous that is.

People in China are known to look the other way when dealing with things that don’t concern them.

Yeah, and so what? Is that a good thing? Does it matter if people don’t? Are there no Chinese who don’t? I believe breathing second hand smoke is something that DOES concern FDLR and your argument of considering social context is rapidly becoming unreasonably black and white. FDLR’s request, yet again, was reasonable and, yes, legal. A request by itself is not a moral vendetta nor is it taking the law into his own hands.

The way the issue would have been properly resolved would be to contact security or the relevant officer on duty.

“Proper?” I disagree and there is no social context for you to insist that either just as accidents where people are injured or killed are often solved through direct exchange between involved parties without involving higher authorities. Why can’t one patron make a request of another patron as equals? Why must FDLR go “tell the teacher” or otherwise “tattle-tale” for him to “properly” resolve the matter? This is ridiculous.

Please read my above post for more details of the incident. I believe that Fcuk was probably warning the man in a very condescending tone, despite using polite words.

Sure, maybe, and even then, it would not excuse the smoker for being an insecure douchebag that tried to “get back” at FDLR by lying through his teeth.

YC, your earlier hypotheses of social context were interesting, but since then, you’ve just committed yourself to trying to argue that FDLR is somehow the bad guy. You went from trying to rationalize why the smoker behaved the way he did to making wholesale presumptions about what “really” happened so you can promote your conclusion that FDLR is the bad guy. FDLR certainly is a bad guy, but the reason I believe so is because he has a habit of being intentionally inflammatory and offensive on these internet comments. My conclusion here is based upon evidence we have before us. Unlike you, I don’t need to fabricate and suggest an alternative version of his story and pin it on him.

I don’t get it, why are you so keen on doing that?

Kai, I do appreciate it if you drop the smart-alec responses namely one like 1) 2) below.

1.)Yes, FDLR is legally allowed to request a fellow patron to not smoke.

- I never said he was not legally entitled to request someone not to smoke, he is simply not entitled to force someone not smoke.

2.) Yes, FDLR was able to exercise his legal right to make a request by opening his mouth and emitting sound.

- Trying to be smart again? refer to point 1.

3.) This was not in a coffee shop btw, it was in a shopping complex where he was having a coffee. So if you are unsure, perhaps you should wait for clarifications before making assumptions ;)

You are basing your assumptions based on your own standards. I don’t necessarily think that a grown man in front of his wife would necessarily listen to a visitor in his country telling him what he can’t and can’t do. I don’t think anyone in the man’s shoes would take well with being told

“i realize you are literate, but I am sure you can see the sign”

from someone who has no authority to actually enforce such regulations . I don’t care what he says about his ettiquette when he say’s a smart remark like that.

4.) As I explained in prior posts, no reasonable Chinese man, whether in front of his wife or not, would like to asked by a visitor in their country to not smoke in a shopping area and then get their arm ceased and cigarette removed forcibly. Talking it one step at a time, the Chinese man was only aggressive after fcuk grabbed his arm. Perhaps you are right and I am wrong assuming things but the excessive force used by Fcuk afterwards is disproportionate. He is more than likely be liable for assault.

5.) The reasonable cost is not only the superficial physical cost but also the possibility consequences of his action. If I am in a library and someone is noisy. I can choose to ignore the people talking so long as the noise is tolerable. I strongly believe that most reasonable people would not get into an argument with the person unless the noise was unbareably repetitive and annoying. This is because the cost of telling them to stop (regardless of being right or wrong) could lead to further disputes and further trouble. The same applies to China but in an even bigger magnitude.
Especially since you are seen as a ‘law wai’ in the eyes of the Chinese.

The reasonable cost here would be to assess, whether it was easier to move somewhere else or to confront this person. A reasonable person would consider whether asking someone to not smoke could possibly lead to dispute and an argument.

6.) The foreigner challenges his authority was actually a typo. I meant the foreigner asserts his authority. Kai, what separates the effectiveness of speech and communication is knowledge of psychology. I find it interesting to read books about communication and psychology for selfish reasons, because it does help me get more of what I want from others. Unfortunately, whether you would like to believe it or not, the Chinese man more than likely found that the foreigner was acting as an authoritative figure. The Chinese man obviously found fcuk offensive and rude.

Since you’ve stated your opinion on hypothetical terms, let me state mine on some real terms.

If I was in Korea, a country that I am a visitor in, and I see a man smoking in front of me, inside a shopping centre while I was having a coffee here is my analysis.

I’m in a country where I know nobody, where it is possible sentiment towards outsiders and where I wont perhaps be able to articulate the local language to justify myself in an argument if it arose. I consider moving the table next to me to avoid the passive smoke. Otherwise I have the option of asking him not to smoke. I would undoubtedly choose to move seats.

No, i wouldn’t try and speak Korean to and ask him not to smoke because quite frankly I’d feel like I am engaging in a direct conflict with him that I would rather avoid. Let’s suppose I say to him not to smoke and he does ask me to go back to my own country. I certainly would not be going to extremes to put him in a position where he is about to get beaten to a pulp.

And Kai, to be very honest, I’m not surprised at all that something like this happened in China. Do you live there now? Many Chinese (I wont say most) love to be in a situation where they can be patriotic and beat up a cocky foreigner. Give them one excuse and they will find make good use of it. Even better if the guy is Japanese. There are similar examples in other countries. You talk about what is rational, but doesn’t what i mention factor into what is rationall? Is that something that Fcuk should have considered?

Hi Rick, I can relate and accept your methodology of thinking. Certainly there are perks and pitfalls to every personality; this I can accept. I personally take a much more cautious approach to life to assess situations for whether a conflict is necessary or whether avoidance is a better approach. Unlike you, I only stick up for something if I feel it’s legally justified and after assessing the possible consequences to my own safety and well being.

@everyone talking about the whole FLDR thing-
And people wonder why I want out despite all Shanghai has going for it. Perfect example right here.

I appreciate the long suffering Chinese people. I am howeve disappointed that all you can produce are low level hackers and poor quality products.

Get a life. My servers, websites of my customers have been hacked for some reason by you people.
eat your cats and leave the USA alone.
Jteebs