American Woman Petitions For Justice, Chinese Pessimistic

more-gvo-125x125From Global Voices:

“American Petitioner in China”

Julie Harms, an American and a Harvard graduate, hit the news as she becomes one of the few, or perhaps the first, foreign petitioner in China. Her case was a grievance against the government that her fiancé, Liu Shiliang, was jailed on a charge which she says is not true. She met Liu Shiliang a decade ago while traveling in China. They were engaged in 2007, but the wedding was delayed because of a neighbor dispute that year, and Liu was arrested in June this year on a trespassing charge.

Julie decided to resort to the petition system in Beijing this year as she feels that the local judicial system has failed to resolve the dispute with justice. The letter and visit petition system (xinfang) is an administrative system for hearing complaints and grievances from individuals in China. The state and local bureaus of letters and visits are in charge of receiving letters, calls and visits from individuals or groups.

While the verdict of the case is still to be decided, the experience of petitioning must have let Julie realized the differences of the Chinese and American legal system. As she has commented (from the news report above):

Local authorities are essentially counting on the fact that the local people don’t have that much knowledge of the law. I think it’s a shame.

Comments on a Sina forum point to the legal and cultural gap between China and the US:

新浪网友:

Westerners petition in China because they are still in the mindset of their country’s legal system. They fail to realise that they are in China. While we Chinese are used to it, Westerners still have to adjust to the Chinese way. It is sad, but is the reality!

手机用户:

Seems Westerners are still unfamiliar with China; they are demanding rule of law and human rights – things which do not exist in China.

新浪网友:

The petitioning system is just for show. For people who still think it is useful, I suggest they better popularise their case in the media to create an impact.

A NetEase forum also contains similarly negative comments:

网易北京师范大学网友:

I don’t want to belittle my country, but I cannot help but say: leave this country together with your husband. China is not a place where you Americans could survive. It is also uncertain when China would become a place with universal values which are suitable for people to live in.  At least, China now does not have rule of law. This is what even a Harvard graduate could not understand.

网易河北衡水网友:

In this ‘mysterious’ state, there are a lot of strange things. I hope she would achieve what she hopes for. Make a film about the case – in this country, an issue could be resolved when you draw enough attention.

more information & translations at: Global Voices

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23 Comments

  1. can i get dibs on this one?

  2. Where are the Henanren to drag her bag to Henan??????

  3. I think it’s a great thing that she is petitioning. It helps bring to light the faultiness of the system, no matter what the result of her case is in the end.

  4. one thing for sure is that….there”s no human right in china,money is the law in china…..stupid chinese officials!

  5. sad sad sad

    I’d encourage her rather than trying to say that there’s no law in this country.

    one thing the chinese commenters didn’t get is that she might have understood the system in China. She’s just trying to get things moving since nobody else here is doing the job.

    加油!

    THINGS CAN CHANGE!!!

    • She would have to be an incredibly dense Harvard grad if after all the time she has spent in China, she only ‘might’ have understood that the petition system is bogus.
      Yes, she is standing outside the office of the ‘letter and visits’ petition office, but I am sure she is hoping for justice as a result of the power of the camera lens she is posing for, not from hanging around the doors of the office behind her.

      • Did you, oh intelligenaous one, consider for a second that perhaps she KNOWS the petition system is BS but she is using it to get media attention which is NOT BS?

  6. What’s up with her scowling all the time?

    It’s funny how the gov’t tries to make these offices ALMOST impossible to locate by sight.

  7. She is desperate, I realize that. But she still must realize that there is no way the Chinese govt will appease her simply because she is a westerner. How would that look for the government?

    Trying to shame anyone by showing up with a few cameramen… not going to work. Sadly, yet another example of a foreigner expecting to wave their passport around and get better results than the locals. If it doesn’t work for big wigs like the Rio Tinto execs currently being held, what hope does she have?

    Softly softly, put the bullhorn down.

  8. I don’t believe it’s a matter of her not understanding the way things work in the government, but rather her motivation to at least try to implement some action. The husband arrested is obviously someone she loves, and most likely she is feeling quite bewildered on available options.

    At the very least, trying to change something is better than standing idly by while watching important issues take its own course. It seems to me that this is the case for most Chinese people when it comes to matters they would otherwise like to dispute. Most Chinese people I talk to have many things they disagree with in terms of government, society, etc. but none of them seem willing to do anything about it. It seems very hard to care for people who are unwilling to help or care for themselves.

    In terms of her fighting a “hopeless battle”, even a small demonstration such as this can have larger impacts further down the road, maybe not for herself but for others in a similar situation. Perhaps this is why she is doing it in the first place. It is unreasonable to say “she shouldn’t waste her time” or “she shouldn’t even bother because she can’t win” because most of you wouldn’t know what to do in this situation either.

    Refer to the “Battle of Thermopylae” for further insight on hopeless battles.

  9. Such is the fate of fifth columnists or spies in China . . . if not, perhaps a staged scenario to send a hidden message to the shadow puppeteers otherwise?

  10. I find it sooo small minded that the posters listed in the article feel that Westerners are only thinking in the realm of what the law system is like in their home country. CLEARLY this woman is doing what she can for her husband and abiding by Chinese law. Giver her credit for at least that. Also, just because someone isn’t Chinese doesn’t mean they can’t fully understand the judicial law. I mean, really. Since when does skin color dictate where one has the capacity to think and understand something put in place. I hope she doesn’t leave China. I hope she keeps fighting, wins, and proves she knew how to work the Chinese system despite what others believed!

  11. lol welcome to china: the land of money and guanxi.

  12. i believe my son didn’t murder people either… move along

  13. Um, before making any further comments, I’d really like to read full details of the “nieghbor dispute that year”.

    Sure, the Chinese petition office isn’t perfect, but neither are the petitioners.

  14. You wanna date Chinese? You wanna have a nice foreign culture experience? Quaint sihiyuan, hutong, nice people who are so welcoming to foreigners…
    F*ck you bitch! This is China! What were you expecting? What kind of fucken moron are you? You thought this place is a fucken postcard?

  15. I’m afraid you’ve fingered the real issue, Wei.

    I’m afraid there are a lot of folks out there looking for the picture-postcard-perfect experience.

    Fortunately, however, we all age. With time.

  16. Gee, it’s really fun to discuss with folks who need a pseudonym (Latin for “fake name”). Like, you really think you’re more than a few keystrokes away from any officer’s access to your real identity? Does that officer really need the extra unpaid overtime to find you?

    Anyhow, I can’t speak for Wei but personally, I wish more foreigners would come to China to stay here long enough to feel the cultural feedback more sensitively.

    As for the picture-postcard missionaries, intel agents of various pedigrees and folks who have a warrant… um, I wish those sorts would stay home or get packed off to Afghanistan. Or Yemen if they really need to look fashionable back home.

    That aliens (or Westerners) arrive here knowing nothing is perfectly alright: that is Day One for everybody who ends up here with a headful of jaded, outdated images in her or his head.

    But if you’ve been intimate with a Chinese long enough to feel a deep commitment, it is criminal negligence or psychosis to try to seek a solution by a public demonstation unless you are Chinese yourself.

    It takes only a month or two of residence in China to understand that confrontation is NOT the way to go here. Unless you are on the payroll of a third party!

  17. And, Mr/Miss/Mrs Jones: You note well when you write “supposedly a bogus charge”. ChinaSmack offers no details, as if to better leave us all maximum leeway for imagination.

    Sorry, I won’t buy into this.

  18. The translated comments from the chinese forum sound really pessimistic. Other people might think that the people are just realistic about the situation in China. I guess both might be true at the same time. I don’t know the actual legal situation in china, since i havent clashed with the law yet while being in china, but from a theoretical point of view, as studying law and chinese law for interest I must encourage Mrs Harms to press her case and use all legal means which the chinese legal system offers her. I dont mean to judge the case itsself since there is too little information on it, but it is wonderful to hear from a foreigner to use the given legal institutions.
    It probably wont yield too big a success legally seen, but if she can utilize media she might achieve a personal gain whatsoever. but beware that she is also doing something for everybody living in china. pressing the government to grant its citizens and everybody else living in china the rights which they are entitled to by the countries laws. the right to petition is good and important, politicians shouldnt be afraid of problems, they should help solve them, that is their job. suppressing problems wont make them disappear forever.

  19. My white girlfriend bails me out of the drunk tank all the time.

    White girls are useful like that.

  20. stories like this should be on the news back in the west. the chinese never stop complaining about how unfairly treated they are in our countries. we can see how much better life is in china, so they should move back there and be happier :-)

  21. Wow – that white chick is kind of ugly – I bet she’s just doing this so she can make some movie about it, sell her story, like Richard Gere… Wait a minute, she’s not even married to the guy yet? Sounds fishy… a “neighbor dispute”? What the…

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