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Foreigners Camping On The Great Wall, Chinese Reactions

by on Monday, August 10, 2009 255 comments

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From NetEase:

Angry! Foreigners eating, drinking, shitting, pissing, sleeping on the Great Wall!

On the night of August 3, about one hundred foreign tourists stayed overnight on the Great Wall. Just their tents and sleeping bags alone required a truck to transport up the mountain, and the Jinshanling management granted clearance pretending to be ignorant. Looks like “Protecting the Great Wall and tourism environment” is not worth mentioning next to colorful cash.

What more, this kind of thing happened 2 just days after a newspaper reporter’s investigative report on the problem of illegal overnight stays on the Great Wall! These people cannot wait to earn money! It is evident that the management and individual bosses are in collusion with each other like snakes and rats living together in a nest!

Beginning from 2003, there have been people who have built “hotels” for overnight tourists, renting sleeping bags to foreign tourists at a price of 400-500 yuan per person. This reporter learned from Luanping County Great Wall management that people were once allowed to stay overnight on the Great Wall, but must pay 100 yuan overnight stay fee and 50 yuan entrance fee, but now tourists staying overnight on the Great Wall is no longer allowed. Yet there are still foreign tourists living on the Great Wall.

Many of those coming to the 4A-level Jinshanling Great Wall scenic area are foreign tourists. After arriving at Jinshanling Great Wall, there are people on the sides hawking sleeping bags for personal profit. Jinshanling Great Wall itself is a lightning area, and previously here there have been incidents of tourists being struck by lightning! When I think of the British William-Lindsay leading a group of foreigners picking up trash on this portion of the Great Wall, doing everything to protect the Great Wall for 20 years, I don’t know whose face [foreigners or Chinese] should be red…

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Comments from Tianya:

百花盛开2009:

Sad, many of China’s scenic spots are all ruined, with the managers only collecting money, not managing/taking care of them.

joechim:

Foreigners’ characters are really low.
Embarrassing themselves all the way here to China.

Jerry44122:

Instead of taking care and protecting our cultural heritage, they have taken it away to make money.

123yjz123:

Once the Great Wall, now the Money Wall.

284792953:

I need to go see the Great Wall soon, otherwise I might not have the chance later.

yetan1:

Too breathtaking. I don’t think this kind of tourism should be allowed, at most let tourists look from the side or have helicopter tours, or even a cable car would work.

阿里大牙:

Don’t blame the foreigners, they paid money, they are consumers. Don’t we all say everyday that we must protected the lawful rights and interests of consumers?

归云轩:

I do not think we can blame this on “laowai” having poor characters.
There are a lot of bastards amongst our country’s people too.

ddww2008:

Foreigners camping on the Great Wall is said to be sullying beauty!
Then what is our countrymen carving “到此一游” ["visited here"] on the bricks???

谁吃瓜子皮:

I haven’t been to the Great Wall yet, and dammit, seeing this I don’t want to go anymore! And good Chinese?! If I go and see those bastard “laowai” eating, drinking, shitting, pissing, sleeping on the Great Wall without giving them a beating, then I would not be a good Chinese person! Those who do not go to the Great Wall are not good Chinese, but those who go and do not flatten those foreigners who insult the Great Wall are truly not good Chinese!

Comments from NetEase:

harvvy:

At least foreigners won’t make a complete mess of the environment, as I believe they will take their trash with them.

ssshs:

Sigh, no matter what you say, it is still a world wonder. NND, unscrupulous tourist managers and foreigners.

liuchun79746:

All day talking about how our countrymen’s characters aren’t high when abroad, tmd, I have rarely met any “laowai” with high characters in China!

lichengwei_5:

There is nothing that can be done, this thing was made public a long time ago. There has even been group sex on the Great Wall, so other than collecting money, do the managers [of the Great Wall] know how to do anything else?

月泮湾:

Angry, unscrupulous managers.
Fortunately, at least it isn’t Chinese people sleeping on there, otherwise, there would be even more garbage to pick up.

xinxinxiu:

I see a sequence, not trash…

鸿亿五金厂:

LZ, do you know? “Camping is not allowed on the Great Wall” was written for us Chinese people only!!!

viping-963:

What can you do? They are foreigners, they are “international friends”, so we must wait on them as if they were our ancestors.

hrblgql:

Sigh! When we ourselves become clean, self-disciplined, then “laowai” will also be self-disciplined. Who let you go piss and shit in front of other peoples’ front doors?

jialanbaobei:

Ugh…too shameless…what country are they from??? I too want to go to their country to ruin their environment/surroundings!!!

Should people be allowed to camp on the Great Wall?

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255 Comments

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  1. krdr
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    First! For the first time. Still didn’t read the post, but I’m ashamed.

    Reply
  2. krdr
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    Western people loves to talk about themselves as cultivated and civilized people. With one twist, they don’t respect others cultural heritage, except in their museums.

    Sleeping on Great Wall is cool (even I would like to do it), but represents carelessness to Chinese cultural heritage. I don’t think this youth would sleep in Westminster Abbey or in Big Ben, or on Trajan Wall.

    There’s also safety considerations, environmental implications and damage to wall itself.

    Reply
    • Josh
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 1:54 am

      Is this a serious post? Just like the posters said, the blame really lies on those who allowed them to camp up there. Besides, in a couple of the pictures, you can see Chinese people accompanying them. Plus, It’s not like there’s empty chip bags everywhere. Looks like a pretty neat campsite to me.

      Reply
      • Mike Fish
        Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:37 am

        Yeah and there are PLENTY of places around the world where you camp within a historical site or stay in an old castle. If a Chinese guy went to Turkey and was offered to stay in an ancient cave house in Cappadocia by a local company, and he did, and later found it was illegal, would anyone blame him? Or would the sensible person blame the local Turk who took money from him and told him he can do it.

        Obviously if people can stay overnight on the Great Wall it’s more than just hawkers and tour operators. They’d have to have at least tacit approval from the local government.

        Reply
    • the great yellow master race
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:37 am

      my dear blind idiot. first of all look closer. those tourists are very clean and i dont see their trash lying around. that they sleep there means locals are to stupid to build cheap campiung place near the wall. they even dont need to build just give a small place and possiblity to wash yourself.

      Reply
      • krdr
        Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:54 am

        I see empty bottles and cans. I don’t see bin bags full of cans and bottles. Those empty bottles and cans are on the edge of the wall, aren’t they, and it is morning.

        Now, you’ll tell me that wind doesn’t blow on the Wall.

        Reply
        • the great yellow master race
          Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 5:13 am

          again you blind idiot. that is not the trash. i dont see their food lying around. all canes stay around their sleep place. they dont droped them on the wall and they do not steprd on them. those cans are ready to be taken away by them. you are realy blind. now tell me not you was always such blind and stupid.

          Reply
          • krdr
            Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:06 pm

            Oh, you call me idiot. What an argument! You are right. Sorry. When someone bring such strong argument, I must step back. Sorry for being blind and stupid. I saw that they are just waking up and cans are on the edge of the wall. I concluded cans stayed overnight on the wall, but you opened my eyes by calling me idiot. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you….

          • shin
            Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 1:46 am

            to krdr: Again, you’re a moron.

            (I don’t need an argument)

    • Cool Matt
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:32 pm

      I think the Cultural Revolution hurt China’s cultural heritage much more than people sleeping on a wall.

      And why do all Chinese love to stereotype? :P (yes i know what i said.) Seriously though, not all non Chinese are like that. Bragging about being “civilized.” Just the douche bags. Unfortunately, that’s what people remember.

      Reply
    • 4chuan
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 6:14 pm

      I don’t really understand how this is disrespecting anything, anyway – the wall was built to keep out the Mongols, right? It’s not some sort of sacred Chinese holy place, it’s a big ineffective wall they built a long time ago to keep out people they could have easily negotiated with instead. It’s actually one of the great Chinese historical blunders (like the Great Leap Forward) but has somehow been repurposed into a “sacred” place.

      Get real, if they don’t want people to camp there, they should have the cops drop by every night and drive them off, like they do in America.

      Reply
    • FOARP
      Sunday, August 16, 2009 at 11:52 am

      Errmmm . . . Westminster Abbey you have to pay to get into and has closing hours, Big Ben is a clock tower where a huge bell rings every hour, so good luck sleeping in those places. As far as camping on Trajan’s wall – go ahead, there’s plenty of camp sites near there.

      Reply
    • Chris
      Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 7:05 am

      I’m not so sure about this. These youths would love to sleep in any famous place that would let them. The big difference is that Westminster Abby and ‘Big Ben’ wouldn’t let them.

      Reply
  3. Joe
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Honestly, the Chinese are so pathetic. Everything is ‘foreigners do this’ and ‘foreigners to that’.
    I really don’t think the rest of the world (the REAL world) should give the country the time of day anymore.

    Reply
  4. lotsofwordsandnospaces
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    A lot of charities do sponsored Great Wall walks, whereby you walk the length of the wall, and make money – normally for Cancer Research. Here is an example:
    http://www.macmillan.org.uk/Get_Involved/Hiking_events/China/China_Hike.aspx
    I have often wondered where they stay during these trips – but I assumed beside the walls…

    Reply
  5. BIGLoser
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    The reactions are all too funny. As if the Chinese who go abroad are respectful and civilized? lol You shit on my doorstep, I shit on yours.

    Reply
    • Curtass
      Monday, August 10, 2009 at 10:04 pm

      Wow, what a mature approach to amicability.

      You’re right, though. The reactions are amusing. :)

      Reply
    • Mark
      Monday, August 24, 2009 at 8:02 pm

      Like your name says, you’re indeed A BIG LOSER just like ur MOM! It’s disrespectful trailor trash like YOU that give us westerners a bad image. For all I’d care they should lock you up in a Chinese prison and rape ur ass twice over! That’ll teach you not to SHIT anywhere, cept in ur mom’s face!

      Reply
  6. Curtass
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    I’d like to know if they cleaned up after themselves, rather than leave their trash everywhere.

    If they did clean up after themselves, then I see no problem with this behavior. 400-500 kuai to stay in a “hotel” at the Great Wall is astronomically overpriced.

    Touring in often a huge annoyance in that travellers – foreign or domestic – get charged for everything – going to the bathroom, taking a photo, etc. The worst, however, is when you pay an entrance fee to, say, a national park, and then you have to pay additional fees to see various scenic spots within the park.

    Anyways, if these tourists left a huge mess behind when they left their “campsite”, then they are inconsiderate pricks.

    Reply
  7. Chinamatt
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Don’t see how it’s any worse than the hawkers on the wall. Most people were rather respectful on my two trips, but I did see some rather disgusting behavior too.

    Reply
  8. ic
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    `NO CAMPING ON THE GREAT WALL’ sign is in clear view. Problem? Lack of law enforcement. Disrespecting law.

    Reply
  9. mariet
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Pity still so many Chinese think in terms of We and Them (‘the foreigners’) .
    I thought China wanted to be part of the world community?

    try to imagine: a group of Chinese, Americans, French camping at Hadrians Wall in northern England.
    In the first place I cannot imagine there will be a widescale uproar about this, second, I don’t think the British would be angry at ‘foreigners camping at the hadrians wall’ at all.

    Reply
    • Ming
      Monday, August 10, 2009 at 10:45 pm

      American have join the world community and still wage war with Islamic nations. In todays world, it is all about national interest, not moral.

      Imagine group of foreigners camping at stone henge

      Reply
      • Curtass
        Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:58 am

        Ming, don’t be so naive. People do camp at Stone Henge! They also camp at every other monument and landmark where a 100 dollar hotel is not needed.

        Reply
      • Mike Fish
        Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:43 am

        Ming… go traveling… there are thousands of famous historic sites around the world where you can camp or stay inside. Staying in Stone Henge would be like them staying in the busiest, most important section of Badaling. Them staying in the section of the Great Wall they actually did would be like people camping at one of the many other minor stone circle sites thoughout Britain, which happens often.

        Reply
        • Ming
          Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:25 pm

          Mike Fish, You cant camp at Stone Henge. You cant even touch it. They have a guild that seal the area. Nowadays you can only look at it from a distant.

          I been there 3 years ago. Dont believe me? Go ask travel agents.

          Reply
          • Mike Fish
            Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 8:29 pm

            I agree with you that you can’t camp at Stone Henge. Reread my comment. You can’t compare where they camped on the Great Wall to camping in Stone Henge because…

            1. Stone Henge is small
            2. Stone Henge is extremely well protected
            3. Stone Henge is original and truely ancient, not restored
            4. Stone Henge is unique

            I said people CAN camp and stay at other similar stone circles all throughout the British Isles, not at Stone Henge. Try again.

          • FOARP
            Sunday, August 16, 2009 at 11:55 am

            Actually the druids are allowed access to Stonehenge for the winter and summer solstices, and they do camp there.

      • Chris
        Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 7:13 am

        You can’t even walk into Stonehenge – all you can do is see it from a distance. This is to prevent further damage. So the comment about camping there is silly – the two things are obviously not comparable.

        Reply
  10. charlie
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    Arrest these the foreign campers, as well as those that allowed it! If they are Americans, ask them why it is okay there, but not here in America to camp at or on our National Monuments?

    It is too bad these campers have no respect for the historical signifiance and pride the Chinese have for the Wall.

    Reply
    • the great yellow master race
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:55 am

      Well. i saw Chinese tourists pissing in Lincol Memorial. so saw i a same in Paris, close to Arch of Triumph. want to know where i saw chinese spiting and farting loud?

      aside that, who at the hell said you that we chinese do have a historical pride for the Wall? are you fucking insane? its a simbol of our slavery, our arrogance, our ignorance and selfish isolation for tousands of years. what is so proud in sending your own and forign people to die on the border by building a huge senseless wall? At next you will tell everyone Hitler was a hero of Israel.

      Reply
    • ha
      Tuesday, June 8, 2010 at 6:16 pm

      the chinese had no respect for the wall until it started to make them money. just like it says above, they used to take bricks of the wall to build their homes.

      Reply
  11. baby
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    actually every year we have an event like this one with the blcu crew (beijing language and culture university). I never went to but a friend went and told me it was great, they were hundreds sleeping on the wall.

    Reply
  12. Frank
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    Uh, are people forgetting that the great wall of China is friggin immense? The comment about Westminster Abbey was hilarous. I’m sure if the Abbey was 1000km. long people wouldn’t mind (or even notice) “overnight visitors”. As long as they take an ethical approach to the monument’s integrity and mix in a healthy dose of responsible camping, there’s nothing to worry about.

    Reply
    • krdr
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:20 am

      Westminster Abbey is 530 feet long. I’m sure people wouldn’t mind me to sign myself on wall. My sign would be inch or two long… I would not spit, piss or anything else, I would use non-invasive pen, or chalk. It will be very responsible.

      Frank, are you from UK?

      Reply
      • Rick in China
        Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 2:46 am

        There is a difference between leaving your physical mark, and simply staying on something for some time. Leaving your personal mark requires someone else to clean it off, or for it to remain there after you are gone. That’s a silly analogy, krdr, think about it. The primary concern here is whether these people are 1) impeding other travelers – if they are there in a commonly walked area it may be a hassle for other people to have to ‘navigate’ around these people, and 2) whether they clean up after themselves.

        Should those 2 conditions be met, I don’t think there’s any issue here, other than fake pride over something that was rebuilt for tourism.

        Reply
        • krdr
          Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:27 am

          I’m known for silly analogies ;). I think you got my point.

          Whether the Wall is refurbished (or reconstructed) or not, it is part of world heritage.

          I think there’s issue. Western youth is often issue by them self. Youth+beer+foreign country is recipe for disaster. I saw that in Beijing, I’m seeing it here.

          Reply
          • Teacher in China
            Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 8:29 am

            I’m western, I had beer and camped on the wall, a shat beside the wall and peed beside it several times. Other than that, no harm done. There were several of us there too, and we (as far as I know) did no actual damage to it. It was actually a great experience.

            By the way, I didn’t see any evidence of shitting on the wall in those pics, did you?

          • Teacher in China
            Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 8:31 am

            Also, I was never informed it was illegal, nor did we see any signs telling us that it was. This was 2007, October.

          • Somethin Somethin
            Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 1:24 am

            I drank the great wall and nobody died. Sleeping on this restored, very bare piece of re-engineered wall isn’t hurting much. It’s also pumping money into the Northern Hebei economy. Dude if you wanna come camp next to the Erie Canal, Washington Monument, or the Arch de Triumph I don’t think the govt is gonna cry over the extra cash and tourist draw.

          • Chris
            Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 7:19 am

            Where is your evidence that these people were drinking beer on top of the Great Wall?

            No evidence? Right, I thought not.

            You have an axe to grind, and this is another chance to do so. The actual issue at hand doesn’t matter – only that you get to say how awful foreigners are.

    • the great yellow master race
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 5:01 am

      just for idiots like you but Romanian Limes was way longer than chinese Wall..

      from Britain until Arabia and Africa.

      Reply
      • krdr
        Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:30 pm

        My hometown lies on Roman Limes. Limes wasn’t one long wall. Walls were made for same reason as Great Wall – to defend “civilization” from “barbarians”. Parts of limes was natural borders, too. As Danube, as Alps, as deserts.

        Some parts of limes are reconstructed in same fashion as Great Wall, especially in Germany. And, nobody sleeps there.

        Regarding your comment on Chinese sentiments towards Wall:
        I found that Chinese are proud of Wall. It is THE biggest man made structure. Only strongest countries can manage erection and maintainance of that structure. Great Wall is almost national emblem of China. It ubiquitous. On airports, walls, markets, murals, advertising.

        His historical purpose was to defend China from nomadic raids, and it did that job well until someone opened the door.

        Almost all great structures of the world are made using slavery in some extent. Walls in Limes was made using only slavery. As I’m informed, workers on great wall was paid.

        You are wrong when you talking about Wall as symbol of isolation. Dynasties that made the wall maintained political and merchant connections with all of their “civilized” neighbors. Even with Romans. Mings also sponsored naval expeditions.

        Yuan dynasty is too blame for isolating China and they didn’t maintain the Wall.

        So, if you are really Chinese, learn your history.

        Reply
        • Anon
          Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 10:53 pm

          Qin shihaung paid his great wall ‘workers’? I hoped he bought insurance for them coz most of them work to their death. Maybe u refer to the workers from later dynasties who mantained the wall.

          Actually, the Han dynasty found a better way to stop the raids, they went to raid the normads (Han Wudi).

          During yuan dynasty, china enjoyed more trade with the west. They didn’t maintain the wall maybe coz they came from across the wall -.-?

          Ok a interesting thought, if the great wall depicts the northern border of pre-han china. So does those land north of the wall really belongs to china? Since some chinese tend to show ancient maps to show tibet is part of china.

          Reply
        • the great yellow master race
          Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:15 pm

          –Limes wasn’t one long wall.–

          whahahaha.. neither was the great wall.

          –And, nobody sleeps there.–

          whahahahaha.. you have no idea what you are talking about. my friend does it every year. near Moesel river. if you want germans can give you place where you can help locals with restoration works. camping place for zero euros inclusive. but from other side. every village in Germany have such places. not like in China.

          even such idiots like you are welcome there:

          http://www.camping-bad-hoenningen.de/Freizeit/freizeit.php?d=Wandern%20&%20andere%20%20Aktivit%C3%A4ten&id=2

          –It is THE biggest man made structure.–

          WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… In 1991, the Great Wall of China became the second largest man-made structure in the world. The largest was Fresh Kills Landfill, serving New York City. It is now the highest point on the east coast.

          –Only strongest countries can manage erection and maintainance of that structure.–

          WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. ohh dear.. you saved my day..

          –Great Wall is almost national emblem of China.–

          WHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! no its still the Tiananmen Gate and 5 star-flag.

          — It ubiquitous. On airports, walls, markets, murals, advertising.–

          WHAHAHAHAHAHA. let me quest you was in Taiwan, Singapoure or San Franzisko-Chinatown. aside that Chinas most “ubiquitous” historical structure was always the Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal.

          –His historical purpose was to defend China from nomadic raids, and it did that job well until someone opened the door.–

          whahahahahahahaha.. wo told you this fantasy legend?

          –Almost all great structures of the world are made using slavery in some extent. Walls in Limes was made using only slavery. As I’m informed, workers on great wall was paid.–

          WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. Limes was build by Legionares. best paid citizens of Roman Empire. workers on great wall. gosh you idiot. do you even know how many tales and poesy were writen in China about people dying by starvation, deadly work and clima during the building of the Wall?

          –Dynasties that made the wall maintained political and merchant connections with all of their “civilized” neighbors.–

          ohh. racist in your are shiting in your brain here.

          –Yuan dynasty is too blame for isolating China and they didn’t maintain the Wall. So, if you are really Chinese, learn your history.—-

          WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. god is he an uneducated idiot!WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

          Reply
          • krdr
            Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 12:20 am

            Hm… this time you tried with arguments. Let see:

            - The link you provided doesn’t state anything about sleeping on the wall. I saw hiking, cycling, but no “camping”. If you want to be volunteer, you can also sleep on archeological sites of Felix Romuliana, or Timacum Minus: http://www.vap.org.uk/europe/serbia/heritage-protection/workcamp-2009-1.html, but you’ll not sleep on site. You’ll sleep in provided accommodation. This system is established by German archeologist. Camping in Germany is tightly regulated. Comparing that with sleeping on GW is nonsense.

            I did a check, so I found only for Hadrian’s wall to be erected by soldiers. As Rome was slave state, I assumed that slaves participated in construction. My comment on great structures and slavery is also about Pyramids, Babylon, Parthenon,…

            I didn’t know for Fresh Kills, but why didn’t you mention the land that Netherlands claimed from sea? Because, for you Great Wall is same as land fill. Still, GW is longest man made structure.

            Western historians claims that China was one of strongest countries until 18th century.

            As I’ve been only in Beijing and Shanghai, I cannot claim that GW is ubiquitous in Taiwan or SF chinatown (which is not in China).

            When I said “almost national emblem”, I didn’t said “a national emblem”.

            I read some stories and legends about Great Wall erection. Even the famous one about bones in mortar.

            There’s also a reason why I put “barbarians” and “civilized/civilization” under quotes. Not to make racist comments, but to illustrate views of people in that time. For Greeks, Persians was barbarians among others. For Romans, Carthaginians. For Chinese, nomadic tribes on the north weren’t “civilized”.

            From Wikipedia:

            The Great Wall concept was revived again during the Ming Dynasty following the Ming army’s defeat by the Oirats in the Battle of Tumu in 1449. The Ming had failed to gain a clear upper-hand over the Manchurian and Mongolian tribes after successive battles, and the long-drawn conflict was taking a toll on the empire. The Ming adopted a new strategy to keep the nomadic tribes out by constructing walls along the northern border of China. Acknowledging the Mongol control established in the Ordos Desert, the wall followed the desert’s southern edge instead of incorporating the bend of the Huang He.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Sangui

            In 1644, Wu Sangui opened the gates of the Great Wall of China at Shanhai Pass to let Manchu soldiers, enemies of the Empire which he served, into China proper.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Ming_Dynasty

            The economy of the Ming Dynasty (1368-1662) of China was one of the most advanced and largest in the world during that period

            The Ming dynasty also engaged in a thriving trade with both Europe and Japan.

            Is this also a legend?

          • soowhen
            Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 2:06 am

            must you put ‘WHAHAHAHAHAHAA’ in front of everything? its kinda annoying and creepy…

  13. G.
    Monday, August 10, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Funny reactions, both western and chinese…
    I just don’t see the point of doing camping on the GreatWall with so many poeple… It must be so nice with a bunch of friends, I mean, 5 people max…
    Btw, in summer 2005 I did a music party on the great wall, I forgot which part exactly, but it was kinda authorized, there was a huge sound and light system. It was all night long, and the view in the morning, with the sunrise was breathtaking…

    Reply
    • FOARP
      Sunday, August 16, 2009 at 12:02 pm

      Sounds cool. I hope the killjoys haven’t gotten round to banning that kind of event. Seriously, I am totally against anything which would cause harm to the wall or impede others visiting it – but guys, the section in question was entirely restored 30 years ago as a tourist attraction. It. Is. Not. The. Original. Great. Wall.

      Reply
  14. Mark
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:01 am

    I’m sure the majority of campers were respectful of the site but I can see how it would miff many Chinese. Regardless of intentions, some things leave a bruise whether they should or not.

    Reply
  15. Virgil
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:25 am

    It used to be a good place to party until the Chinese decided they’d get permission to hold crap “raves” with crap dj’s and no proper planning to handle events. Hardly a foreigner problem, they’d never get permission.

    Reply
  16. Jay K
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:27 am

    sticks and stones, sticks and stones..the chinese sometimes are too uptight.

    Reply
  17. Kellen
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:29 am

    grr! foreigners! *shakes fist*

    Reply
  18. Kenneth
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Hey aren’t people forgetting something? It is the great wall management that allows people to camp there. If even they don’t give a shit except making money, who’s there to blame. Obviously the only way to solve this problem is not to blame on the foreigners but rather the management who is doing such a “terrific job” managing the place.

    Reply
  19. Wise Man
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:49 am

    Do you see tourist sleeping overnight at the Parthenon in Greece, or the Coliseum in Rome? How about the Eiffel Tower in Paris or the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C.?

    It’s a travesty that someone would allow this to occur – disgracing a national symbol of China.

    Of course what they say in America, money talks…bullshit walks.

    China needs to protect its relics or they will fall prey like others around the world.

    Reply
    • Rick in China
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 2:49 am

      Analogy is wrong. Parthenon in Greece, Coliseum in Rome; you’re comparing the Great Wall, not the Forbidden Palace. Have you ever seen ‘foreigners’ try to camp out in the Forbidden Palace? That would be an apt analogy.

      This ‘relic’ was rebuilt. It is still being rebuilt, if you walk to one of the segment ‘ends’ you’ll see the real pile of rubble (I mean wall).

      Reply
    • Alikese
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:12 am

      The difference between the Parthenon and Coliseum and the Great Wall is that the wall where they are staying was built expressly for tourists to walk on it. It was probably built in 1988 with brand new bricks and cranes. If some of the bricks get worn down or fall out they can just add in some new ones.

      I don’t get all of the butthurt. If some tourists slept on the park on top of Mount Rushmore I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

      Reply
    • Mike Fish
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:50 am

      Wise Man… you are so right… you don’t see people camping in those places, here are the reasons

      1. better protected
      2. much smaller, not much camping space
      3. Eiffel Tower… people would fall off
      4. Lincoln Memorial… that would be more like camping on the steps of the Mao Mausoleum
      5. Parthenon… too dark and spooky

      Your anologies suck. There are plenty of Roman and Greek ruins, old church ruins, ancient castles, etc etc all around the world where you can camp or spend the night. Get a clue dude!

      Reply
  20. Bobbo
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 1:25 am

    Well, we have a different way in the west. But i agree, they should obey the law. If not, they should be back home. Im sick of foreign people where i come from who live by their law, not ours.

    Reply
  21. Solomon
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 1:35 am

    Im jewish and strongly feel we are above other people. In Talmund is clearly states we are singled out from the rest. Please dont be offended by this. I would camp on the wall and i would tell PRC that i am a jew. That has helped me so many times in the past.

    Reply
  22. dudemeisdtwr
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 1:59 am

    AHHAHAHAHA

    chinese people mad about other people shitting other places than the toilett.

    oooh the irony.

    Reply
    • Fike2308
      Friday, August 21, 2009 at 8:40 pm

      Seriously….I have never even seen a Chinese baby wearing a diaper….parents let them piss and shit on the bus, in the supermarket, etc.

      Chinese people have NO RESPECT for hygeine or public property.

      How many bathrooms here even have soap and toilet paper?

      Reply
  23. Canuck in China
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 2:16 am

    This is just another example of the Chinese whoring out their national treasures to make a buck. I’ve seen this all over China:

    - Starbucks in the “Forbidden City” (I hear PuYi loved his green tea frappachino)
    - A model Sphinx on the way to the Terracotta warriors.
    - Has anyone been to the founding site of the CCP? It’s the most capitalist nouveau riche area of Shanghai?!
    - Mogao Caves in Dunhuang. Some of the cave paintings have been deemed “too erotic” for the public to see. But if you pay your guide an extra 150 kuai, they’ll be more than happy to corrupt your virgin eyes.

    Reply
    • Alikese
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:24 am

      At the Yellow Crane Tower, Wuhan’s most famous landmark, they sold Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant figurines. And not only was the tower not on the original grounds, they moved it across the Yangtze where it fit in easier.

      Reply
    • shin
      Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 1:21 am

      Absolutely Canuck. In general, money comes before everything else to the Chinese. It’s really unfortunate. No shame.

      Reply
    • mike
      Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 6:36 am

      i too have seen this wonderful qing dynasty starbucks. supposedly (after a nyt article, natch) it was removed b/c of protests and a new “chinese” cafe (aka not foreign owned) replaced it. sigh..

      Reply
  24. WTF?!
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:44 am

    I know someone who’s been on one of these, and I’m almost positive the campers are not aware that what they’re doing is illegal.

    I can see Chinese people being offended if certain individuals are particularly disrespectful or create a mess for others to clean up (leaving a tent behind, for example), but the idea that camping on the wall is in itself offensive is not a particularly sound argument by any Chinese cultural customs that I am aware of.

    Reply
  25. Simon
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:45 am

    “Foreigners eating, drinking, shitting, pissing, sleeping on the Great Wall!”

    Read the headline!! They are foreigners, not Chinese!! You Chinese piss and shit everywhere and treat your country like a pig’s house!!! Foreign visitors to this country have more respect for the environment than you ever will.

    Reply
  26. Ed
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:58 am

    I call this foreign invasion!

    Reply
    • THE KID
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 10:47 am

      you better do something about it then, and remember, when you leave China, if you ever are lucky enough, YOU are the foreigner………and because of idiots like your self, the rest of the world has no respect for you.

      Reply
  27. krdr
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:03 am

    “Blame the locals” are to typical for westerns. That locals are on edge of poverty (some of them are on the edge luxury). By paying to do something illegal, the one can justify his/hers deeds.

    If Chinese people eat, drink shit, piss, sleep on Great Wall, and one considers himself civilized, then he must restrain himself from eating, drinking, etc…

    Just think what is right and what is wrong.

    On other side, I’m sure that this pics are taken from the place were sleeping is allowed, and the sign is from other part of the Wall.

    Reply
  28. DWR
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:17 am

    I’ve never approved of sleeping on the Great Wall and I’ve turned down offers to go camping there with friends.

    Along with the old Jiu Ba Jie, 1.20 Xiali cabs, yangrouchuanrrr at 3am, your first pitcher of Chivas GT… sleeping on the Wall seems to be part of the definitive ‘laowai’ Beijing experience.

    It is a shame that it isn’t better policed, but I agree that foreigners should show a little more respect for the local heritage.

    Seeing these pictures is just sad. The Wall seems to have become a free hostel during the warmer months. The signs clearly state that camping is prohibited. So don’t do it. You don’t need a policeman to tell you.

    Bloody 外国佬… ;)

    DWR

    Reply
    • THE KID
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 10:51 am

      your just a little bitch deep inside…… yes that’s right, just a little confused brainwashed bitch who thinks you still live in the tang dynasty…..
      look around YOU…this country is not what i was 500 years ago because of the foreigners..oh I mean chinese……guess were in China now..
      It’s currently one big polluted cheap garbage bin… and you worried about people sleeping on Rocks ??

      Reply
    • KTR
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:34 pm

      How do you know the the sign is on that section of the wall? How do you know they stayed overnight?

      Respect for local heritage? “Foreigners” payed for the wall to be restored while the heritage loving local took parts of it to build houses!!

      Plenty of Chinese universities offer campling trips on the wall, so obviously ingnorance in your case is part of the definitive Chinese experience!

      Get a grip, grow up and shut up 滚！

      Reply
  29. Dan
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 5:00 am

    North American tourists are hated the world over. Tom Green’s “Subway Monkey Hour” will give you a good insight into why.

    Reply
    • Super Kong
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 7:08 am

      Actually, American tourists typically are ranked among the best tourists in the world. Because after all the jokes about big fat boorish Americans, they obey signs and are the best tippers. The Japanese are up there for being polite and big spenders. The French ranked low for being cheap arrogant assholes and the Chinese are ranked low cause they are loud and do not follow lines.

      Plus, you are quoting Tom Green? Seriously?

      Reply
    • Mike Fish
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:52 am

      Where are you from?

      Reply
  30. Mr. K
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 5:04 am

    I do not see any pictures of people shitting or pissing in the great wall (they certainly do that a dozen meters away and so it is no problem for the nature). But everytime I went to the great wall I saw lot of carving from chinese people… But so few chinese complain about that.

    Reply
  31. lostinsz
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 5:26 am

    Why anyone would want to pay good rmb to visit the majority of China’s tourist sites is beyond me. Dusty recreations made of plastic tiles and pvc. After a big weekend they look like exploded dumpsters. They give the word CHEESY a whole new definition compared to Disneyland, and are totally interchangeable one with another. Museums are a blast of propaganda in my experience. The again I’m Oz ethnocentric….drop litter here, we fine your arse, and this is why our environment is pristine, and also why half China would relocate here permanently if they could pass the IELTS exam.

    Reply
  32. too yellow
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 5:32 am

    Isn’t this old news? I swear I heard on news about foreigners camping, pissing, shitting, and drug use on the wall two years ago.

    Reply
  33. Bep
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 6:38 am

    What the heck is wrong? A bunch of back-packers enjoy on the wall. Dont worry they would pick up the trash.

    If Chinese like to camp in Europe they an do that 30 meter from ANYONES house. And yes, i believe they leave a big mess after. Chicken-bones mixed with used condoms.

    If you see this as a offence, you better solve your internal psychological stuff. And in the meantime, do not use forums to make a fool out of yourself.

    If it was blacks, gypsies or any other ethnicity wth ow IQ and bad behavior, i cold understand.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Reply
  34. Bill
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 7:09 am

    They look like foreigners, but are you sure?

    pissing and shitting in public sounds very Chinese. spitting too

    Reply
  35. Super Kong
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 7:19 am

    Look, yea nobody is going to camp out at the Parthenon because they DON’T allow it and actually enforce it. If they did allow it at all the famous places than I probably would do it when I visit; it would be cool as hell to camp out in the Coliseum for a nite with friends. As tourists we go explore a new country and try all the different services available. Its up to the local authorities to regulate and protect the important places. Its one thing if these guys are jumping fences but clearly somebody local organized, advertised, and sold the camping trip and probably billed it as legal.

    And I’ve ran along the Wall and pissing off it is the least of the Wall’s problems.

    Reply
  36. Tommy
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 8:30 am

    …..Tommy woz ere……

    Reply
  37. f uck yilei
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 10:07 am

    this kind of things happened everrday. you cant rely on the administrative to monitor or manage. coz the great wall there is apparently a cash wall.

    Reply
  38. b
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 10:46 am

    I can’t imagine wanting to go camping in a giant group of 50 people! The whole purpose of camping, for me, is to get away from society, escape into the wilderness, and not need a whole truckload of supplies that will make it as convenient as my living room.

    In my experiences, many North American campers are the most respectful and environmentally-keen citizens you’ll find. Many,myself included, go to great lengths to not disrupt the places we trek, to leave no sign of our having been there.

    As far as being culturally insensitive…what’s insensitive is the lackluster and unprofessional work that goes into much of China’s restorations, especially when compared to the painstaking steps that go into many European projects.

    Visiting the WenZhong path in Nanjing, I saw Chinese tourist after Chinese tourist climbing on the stone animal structures.
    Badaling has more carved grafitti and defacement than the inside of a truck-stop bathroom…and not much of it in English!

    Reply
    • b
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 10:53 am

      that said, these posers did seem to go through a shit-ton of trash, I’d hope they cleaned up afterwards. In the US, smart campers always bag trash immediately, so as to help keep away bears, scavenging animals, and ants.

      Reply
  39. Icedew
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 10:49 am

    Wouldn’t even matter if they actually did leave all those cans and bottles there on the wall. Once they leave those can and bottle collectors would come a collect them all to earn money.

    Reply
  40. Peteryang
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:06 am

    I didn’t read all the comments but however you look at it, it’s ugly. Nowhere in the world is there a tour place without rules, so when it says no camping it means no camping plain and simple and this isn’t your typical grassland on campus.

    And the fact they didn’t leave trash around can’t remotely justify this. Every tourist is forbidden to lay beds so why should they take exceptions??

    Reply
    • Mike Fish
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:55 am

      You sure this photo is actually taken in an area where camping is forbidden? You know how many Chinese people do this? Every university in Beijing has a camp on the wall trip.

      Reply
  41. CABABCSRWYALL
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:34 am

    First of all, the poster’s an inposter,sort of like a low blow report, Now my question is: WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE THEY FROM??

    I was hoping someone could answer that question,cause If an Iraqi blowtorch a city,headline goes like “Iraqi blowtorches a city”.

    If an African scams some fool, headlines are “A Ghanian,Nigerian or cameroonian scams an american”

    Now yall see the post in different perspective,but I dare a sensible soul to answer ” WHERE ARE THESE CAUCASIANS FROM??

    “FOREIGNERS CAMPING ON THE GREAT WALL” wtf
    (An american born chinese under chinese law is considered a foreigner too)

    And please don’t nobody come up here with
    ” How would you expect the reporter to ascertain their nationalities?”

    These are group of tourists possibly from the same country speaking the same language (stuglish).

    WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE THESE CAUCASIANS FROM??

    Reply
  42. couldberabbit
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 11:56 am

    As if that is a real section of the wall. Notice, no photos of the area after they move on, just while they are camping. No doubt the area was picked up. I vomit on your elastic nationalism…

    Reply
  43. PUSAN PLAYA
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    This same shit happened in Korea a bit over a year ago, a drunken American soldier set fire to Namdaemun and they blamed it on some poor old man.

    Reply
  44. KTR
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    It’s not actually that great of a wall now, it’s a bit run down now, should be the “so-so wall”

    Reply
  45. KTR
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Ya da ya da fucking ya da; get a grip, the authorities are obviously allowing people to stay there so they can make money for their own pockets; what about all the CHINESE hawkers selling the sleeping bags in the first place? I suppose they’re just innocent. Well they do have to make money somehow since this communist state where everyone is equal but some more eual than others doesn’t provide for them, 滚！

    Reply
  46. FYIADragoon
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Foreigners shouldn’t be such a bunch of idiots, but where’s the cultural pride, as far as the Chinese go?

    Reply
  47. ambra
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    The guilty is in the both sides ( Chinese and Tourist ).
    Why don’t just keep a small part of the Great Wall for this kind of camping officially !?

    Reply
  48. Kevin
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    I don’t understand why Chinese people are crying. They should be proud that a bunch of laowais are trying to adapt to Chinese habits. Pissing and shitting in public places and randomly throwing garbage is a national sport in China

    Reply
    • lostinsz
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:14 pm

      Yeah, I agree with you Kevin. Not to p, s and litter would hurt the feelings of the Chinese people, as we hear so often on CCTV. Drop your garbage out of the window of your highrise. Children urinating in buses. Dump your industrial waste in the river at night. God, the list goes on. 5,000 years of civilization and what have we got. An extremely degraded environment which is beyond repair.

      Reply
  49. Kai
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    I’m not sure what is more disappointing: The usual anti-foreigner comments by ignorant Chinese or the usual anti-Chinese comments by foreigners who really, really should know better.

    Reply
    • Fcuk Da Lu Ren
      Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 5:43 pm

      What about the “anti everybody” comments? Can I make some of those? Missed you Kai!!

      Reply
    • shin
      Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 1:41 am

      True Kai. We have yet to find other ways to vent our frustrations with the nonsense we see over here. I find myself getting more cynical everyday…but that’s my own problem and i’m trying to deal with it. how about giving me a couple of your Prozacs?

      Reply
      • Kai
        Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 11:33 pm

        shin, old buddy, thanks for reinforcing my standing criticism that foreigners tend to feel entitled to bitching and whining without feedback or pushback. As I’ve said before, I get it, but often that bitching and whining gets tiresome and out of control, especially when foreigners are supposed to be and often claim to be so much more civilized, rational, logical, and generally superior in intellect and maturity to the locals. I hold foreigners to a higher standard mainly because they claim to be of a higher standard. Given that, can you blame me for being disappointed when foreigners fail to meet the expectations they have for themselves? Don’t you get disappointed with ANYONE, whether Chinese or foreign, that does the same?

        The bottom line, as chinaSMACK can attest to in the Chinese netizens they translate and the commenters who post here, is that the vast majority of people in this world, regardless or race or nationality, allow themselves to say some really dumbass things that they probably wouldn’t say if they actually first bothered to rub two brain cells together and, like, tried to be rational. People are emotional, hypocritical things. We all are, and I make such mistakes all the time too. Just because we do, and probably BECAUSE we do, I think occassionally reminding ourselves to take a step back and check ourselves is generally a good call. I know most people hate being confronted with their own flaws and mistakes, but too bad.

        Reply
        • Mike Fish
          Thursday, August 13, 2009 at 7:07 pm

          Kai… the pot calling the kettle black eh? You just using “foreigners” once, like you do, puts you in the same catagory as them.

          The posts Chinasmack translates are sensational, the Chinese language comments often even more so, and the reaction, from other Chinese and foreigners… surprise surprise, often sensational too. You aren’t hoping for subtle referenced discource on a topic as absurd as this, are you?

          Reply
          • Kai
            Friday, August 14, 2009 at 1:54 am

            Mike,

            The posts Chinasmack translates are sensational, the Chinese language comments often even more so, and the reaction, from other Chinese and foreigners… surprise surprise, often sensational too.

            I’m not sure what is more disappointing: The usual anti-foreigner comments by ignorant Chinese or the usual anti-Chinese comments by foreigners who really, really should know better.

            You aren’t hoping for subtle referenced discource on a topic as absurd as this, are you?

            I’m hoping for foreigners who invoke their inherent superiority to actually display that inherent superiority when responding to such “sensational” Chinese posts/comments. The real life equivalent of this is a bunch of racists talking shit about another race and laughing to themselves without recognizing or realizing that a member of that race is amongst them, and then that person turns to them and says “wow, you guys are assholes.”

            As far as using the word “foreigners”, does it bother you that you got upset with that instead of me saying “ignorant Chinese”? You know what I’m referring to and I’m strictly blaming those who are culpable, be they idiotic Chinese who see the world in us vs. them, or idiotic foreigners who do likewise. Would translating ignorant and offensive YouTube comments for the Chinese audience justify the Chinese in reacting with the same levels of ignorance and offensiveness? No, if you know better, you should BE better, or try your damn best to do so. Otherwise, how can a foreigner claim to be better if he or she allows him or herself to be just as bad as the Chinese he or she disdains and looks down upon?

            That’s my point. Do you disagree with it? Is this criticism inaccurate or unfair? Do you think it is unreasonable of me to feel this given many of (not all) the comments on this thread?

          • mike
            Friday, August 14, 2009 at 4:48 am

            the problem is with the word “foreigner” itself. i guess there’s not another (better) word to use, but the meaning of the word itself is meant to be excluding. after hearing it so much in asia, i have noticed that americans rarely use this word, instead preferring to call people by their nationality (swiss, french, chinese, etc), which i think is not only more accurate but more polite as well.

            chinese do have a tendency to exclude/separate people, whether by race, nationality, sex, economics, …its not a healthy way to think. its strange to see a country like america, which is rather cohesive despite all the differences in the people that live there, versus china, which is pretty culturally and racially homogeneous but is still stuck when it comes to social evolution.

          • Kai
            Friday, August 14, 2009 at 5:58 am

            Mike (non-Fish),

            I don’t think “foreigner” as I used it is inaccurate for the people I’m referring to. I suppose I could write down the name of every commenter I’m referring to, but that’s a bit excessive, don’t you think? I imagine most people know who I’m referring to and who I’m not, especially since I specify by what they are identified by (“usual anti-Chinese comments”, “foreigners who invoke their inherent superiority”, etc.). If you’re not one of those people, was there anything I said that unfairly dragged innocent people into it? Did I say anything to suggest that “all” foreigners are this way?

            “Foreigner” like the names of races/nationalities is by itself a pretty neutral descriptor. How polite or impolite it may sound stems from how it is uttered, even how it is “heard”. I didn’t intend to add any inherent nastiness to the word itself, but I would understand if you read more into it than I intended. I fully recognize that it can be used negatively, just as “Chinese” can as well.

            I think everyone, not just Chinese, tends to exclude and separate people. I find a statement suggesting that this is not a healthy way to think and specifically singling out the Chinese as somehow “guilty” of it to be offensive if not outright ignorant. We, as humans, all interpret our world by similarities and differences, and in this, “Chinese” and “foreigners” are far more alike than different. Frankly, I don’t even understand how you could say such a thing and feel good about saying it. It is ridiculous. I also think your comparison about China’s “social evolution” with America’s “cohesiveness” to be irrelevant if not misguided. If nothing else, it seems to lend strength to my criticism that there’s little to excuse the atttitude of many Americans or “foreigners” here who have said plenty to show how they’re not much further in their “social evolution” compared to the Chinese.

            What’s the difference between a racist American and a racist Chinese? Nothing. They’re both assholes.

        • mike
          Saturday, August 15, 2009 at 7:05 am

          um actually i was just saying how i dont like the word foreigner. is there anything you dont overreact to? seriously…its annoying. a sentence or two will suffice.

          and yes, from my experience, chinese on the whole are more racist and prone to sweeping stereotypes than americans. i think many here will agree with me. i doubt the “overseas chinese” are treated as roughly in the US as americans are in china

          Reply
          • Kai
            Saturday, August 15, 2009 at 8:29 am

            mike,

            Strange, I originally thought you were overreacting to me using the word “foreigner.” Now you’re saying I’m overreacting to your overreaction, and surely you’ll say this paragraph is an overreaction to your overreaction. Funny, eh?

            I think the vast majority of racism and stereotyping from Chinese are similar in nature to those from Americans. There’s just a lot more Chinese in a much less multi-cultural environment with far less multi-cultural education. Frankly, I don’t give a shit if many here will agree with you and I find it cute that you take solace in that. I do think any foreigner (whether it be a Chinese in America or an American in China) receives varying levels of treatment depending on where they are in that host country and what morons they encounter.

            But sure, I get it, you’re still trying to assert and establish that the Chinese are worse than Americans. It just wasn’t enough to denounce racism wherever it shows up, you had to insist that one group is more guilty of it than the other. You couldn’t adhere to a principle, you had to find a target of blame. If that makes you feel better about yourself, fine.

            But…”seriously…its annoying.”

          • mike
            Saturday, August 15, 2009 at 10:07 am

            “I do think any foreigner (whether it be a Chinese in America or an American in China) receives varying levels of treatment depending on where they are in that host country and what morons they encounter.”

            hmm very true. i suppose i just have bad luck then. ill admit im biased because i got treated like shit in china, but everyone is biased in their own way. since i got a fistful of racism/sexism/whatever everywhere i went in china (except tibet. irony?), i naturally concluded that chinese are not so…shall we say, socially adept? i definitely wouldnt say that counts as racism though. probably has nothing to do with race and lots more to do with government…therefore…

            of course its an education problem, but like you so often say, people should know better anyways. americans are spoiled with how diverse and multicultural the country is, but china is becoming more and more globalized and likes to say how advanced they are all the time…yet…

            btw, my first comment wasnt an overreaction, i just noticed you and fish or whoever you were talking to were having some debate about the word. thats it. i think it gets thrown around a lot in a negative way (esp in chinese) so i try not to use it myself when possible.

            glad you find me cute, thought you guys all liked asian girls though? ha

        • Jeremiah
          Friday, August 21, 2009 at 3:51 pm

          Kai, you’re from Austrailia. Aren’t you technically a “foriegner” too?

          Reply
        • Fike2308
          Friday, August 21, 2009 at 8:49 pm

          I hold “foreigners” to a higher standard than Chinese because…well, foreigners, in general tend to be cleaner and more respectful of rules.

          How many foreigners spit in every public place?
          How many foreign babies don’t wear diapers and piss in public places (not toilets)?
          How often do Chinese people obey the “No Smoking” signs (or any signs for that matter)?
          If you’re in a movie theatre and someone starts shouting on their phone is the person more likely to be Chinese or non-Chinese?

          Just a few comparisons for your consideration.

          Reply
    • mike
      Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 6:44 am

      i agree. two wrongs dont make a right; the guys doing business like this should have more respect for the great wall, the foreigners definitely know better but probably assume its ok since there are businesses doing this (probably) nightly. lack of respect all around. i feel for the chinese in this case, though, even though seeing zoos, carnival rides, snack stands, etc everywhere on the great wall really upsets me, its because these people arent supported by the state and do what they can, moral or not, to make ends meet.

      Reply
      • Fike2308
        Friday, August 21, 2009 at 8:50 pm

        I think a lot of the bad behavior of foreigners in China can be attributed to “when in Rome”.

        If Chinese people spit, shit and piss on everything in their own country why should they expect foreigners to act differently?

        Reply
  50. 水溶C100
    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    I think a lot of people(BOTH CHINESE AND OTHERWISE) would take advantage of an opportunity to sleep on the great wall。 The fact that this is an issue of nationality and not an issue of unenforced rules is beyond me..

    Reply
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  1. Damn foreigners! | News Print Writing 2009
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