Henan Fake Building Shows Village Is Developing

From Tianya:

China’s Most Niu “Street-Front Building”, Definitely Will Shock You!

henan-china-fake-rural-building

In Henan Province Luanchuan County Jiahe Town, this building is very conspicuous. Right next to a public road, it it looks like a small two-story building at a glance, with freshly painted white walls, but you wouldn’t know that this building is actually only about 1.5 meters deep, built to comply with the “new rural development” of building new houses by peasants/farmers who do not actually have the money to build “real buildings” so they can only do this. When the superiors/leadership come to inspect, they only look from their car, so how could they know that behind the resplendent wall are old and run-down adobe houses.

In the town, all adobe or brick houses near the street must be painted white, even the outhouse/latrine must be made white, so that the entire county’s situation appears to be good.

Comments from Tianya:

冰生玉火:

Incredible, too incredible, whose idea???

huruyiye:

Fuck, the leadership are this wise and far-sighted now, making things look like the real thing.

santy1:

Formalism is niubi.

shz001:

It can be said that this kind of surface/image project can be found anywhere, including the Jiangsu developed area. As long as it is a second-class highway or above, every rural building on both sides of the road must have their road-facing walls painted, either white or light blue color. However, just this side is painted, while the remaining three are ignored, and for who to see? For the leaders passing by on the road to see.

angel_mine:

Impressive! Chinese people are still pretty wise and far-sighted!

cairft:

Very characteristic, strongly suggest making this a historic building to be preserved for the education of the next generation!

gdjt901:

Even God cannot save Henan people.

八荣八耻和谐社会:

Henan people’s faking activity has reached yet a new level.

爱在栾川:

I wonder how much money this kind of building has wasted for our rural/farmer/peasant brothers! Heartache!
I wonder which brilliant leader thought of this method!

tzq558:

There are many places like this, there is nothing to be surprised about. I wonder if the leadership/government knows or doesn’t know??? No matter what, the ordinary common people all know!!!

Comments from NetEase:

hui367012530:

Only China’s government officials can do this kind of niu thing!!!

77fly:

The ordinary commoners do not have this kind of IQ or ideas.
The people with the intelligence to do these kind of things must at least be those geniuses who have at least lived off the government’s money for 5 years.

abclaoyuzhen:

Many Beijing buildings along streets also did a lot of “face” construction projects. These buildings will soon collapse and long ago should have been torn down, yet they all spent a lot of money to repaint them. This kind of expenditure is really so wasteful, and my heart aches just seeing them. It would have been better to get together and steadily do some really useful things.

wtj711022:

This kind of thing happening in Henan is very normal. If it did not happen, then it would actually be abnormal.

占飞:

Was the majority of this house carved up by the previous government official who came to inspect? [meaning the previous government official already stole most of this house/people's money]

kingyeming:

Whether you are an official or an ordinary commoner, you should reflect. Officials want face, but this is taxpayers’ money. The ordinary common people should have reported this [waste of money].

lzb94121:

How much better it would be if China’s officials put this kind of ingenuity on proper things! This post must be reposted more!!! Let everyone get to know these people’s bad characters!

wulixueming:

This is the problem of China’s policies, and not the problem of all Henan people.

wskhh123.com:

It is the same where I am from. They built a village to represent developing the rural countryside, and every time the government leadership comes, they always take them to that village, while all the other villages are still the same as they were before, living in poverty.

Help us maintain a vibrant and dynamic discussion section that is accessible and enjoyable to the majority of our readers. Please review our Comment Policy »
  • bendan

    They could shoot a spaghetti Western there.

  • too yellow

    would it cost that much to build a wall around that thing?

  • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

    I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise…

  • jim whatson

    so what?
    many people build buildings in phases.
    I see buildings in the UK that are like this, where they keep the front of a old building because the owner likes the look of it and knock down the rest for rebuilding later.
    I see no difference.

    • river

      you are stupid, did the english waste money. they build a intact building behind the old wall.

  • Rabelais

    tsk tsk tsk, they can’t even do shanzhai Potemkin villages right.

  • 鬼佬

    As much as I love this website I don’t understand why you post something like this and not translate comments about a major event in China that’s happening right now, like the Xinjiang riots. This story is really entertaining (haha shanzhai buildings) but it’s not very relevant. I’m a lot more interested in hearing what Chinese people have to say about what’s going on in Xinjiang.

    • Rick in China

      Welcome to how not to become ‘harmonized’ 101.
      Please, take your seat.

    • dace

      Maybe because all of those posts about the riots disappear as soon as they go online?

    • Peteryang

      GFW is coming… no one moves a muscle…

    • PUSAN PLAYA

      Kill all Hajjis and Cantonese

    • I bet if the Xinjiang story was posted here, this site would be shut down 5 min later.

    • Samael

      whats the point? its covered fairly well by most western media source anyway

      • CNN

        But I thought all western media sources were biased and ‘anti-chinese’?

        • MJ4ever

          well then u r a tool arnt ya??

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      鬼佬, you probably can’t be blamed for this but the original About section for this website made it pretty clear that this website doesn’t really go into heavy politics or sensitive politics. The most political things they get into are usually corruption cases, and that’s about it. The original About suggested that Fauna, the overlord of this website, wasn’t very interested in political stuff. Others have, since then, suggested that another reason is to avoid getting GFW’ed or harrassed by authorities.

      If we assume it is to avoid getting harassed or in trouble, I think its important that we respect that. Many foreigners can’t really appreciate a local’s aversion to pissing off the government. Foreigners generally can high-tail it out of here if they get in trouble, or rely on their government to save their ass. Not so for the locals. Now, I don’t think Fauna or this website is going to get into THAT much trouble for doing a post on the Xinjiang riots, but I don’t think they’re obligated to if they don’t think its worth it…or even if they just don’t care.

      Which brings us to what others above have said:

      (dace) A lot of the topics about what’s going on are actively being deleted or censored. This will make it harder for chinaSMACK to get the material it usually uses. It also means the comments they can translate may be skewed and that much less representative (though to be fair, they were never rigorously representative in the first place).

      (Samael) There’s TONS of coverage on this news incident already from tons of other websites, who are all doing pretty good jobs. What chinaSMACK could bring to the table would be some “from the horse’s mouth” comments by Chinese netizens. I think that’d be cool, but I don’t think its imperative that they do so. Other websites or even many of the commenters here have already given us some glimpses into what Chinese netizens are saying, which is division between racial/ethnic lines, a lot of stereotyping, a lot of emotional bandwagon ruckus, even horrifying things like supporting Hitler and ethnic cleansing. There are also more level-headed people with level-headed comments too, as always, but like most contentious issues, you’re going to notice a lot of mob mentality and idiocy. There’s plenty of resentment on both sides, for different reasons.

      Finally, if all reason fails, and all of the above explanations are invalid to you, the final thing is: This website, like any other website, is occassionally going to fail you, fail in providing you with something that you’re interested in, that you want, that you think they owe you. Sorry, but that’s life, and life sucks.

      • 鬼佬

        Actually I wasn’t even expecting some sort of rundown of the events that are happening – as people said this is being covered by a variety of different websites, but something nobody else is doing, and of particular interest to me (and probably a lot of readers on this website), is what Chinese people are actually saying about this subject on the internet.

        If Fauna doesn’t want to do it, that’s cool – 这是她的家 – but probably a lot of us want to read it.

        • Tommy

          Take a wild f**king guess at what the lemmings are saying about Xinjiang. Exactly what the government wants them to say about it. I am incredibly angry because I’ve just had to sit through two hours of some Chinese wanker telling me the Uighurs are barbarians.

          • Rick in China

            They *are* barbarians! Unshaven, unshowered, making high pitched squeely calls out to eachother across great distances…if they are not barbaric, what is?

            If not for awesome nan bread and yang rou chuan, you’d probably agree!

          • FangYao

            Uighurs & chinese…peace & respect
            all the Uighurs friends if you have any unfair feeling please towards the chinese government not the normal Han people.
            there are quite a few xinjiang guys steal people’s belonging on the street, you can recognize everywhere. that’s give more reasons, majority Han chinese treats them as thieves.
            well violent is never make things better,Han chinese society is not as violent as western racial group,let’s all clam down.

          • Peteryang

            This isn’t government’s propaganda, Uighurs made their own reputation.

            Minorities enjoy preferential policies that make their lives much smoother and, with these enviable advantages they can easily be more successful than Han Chinese, but according to my observation, they simply choose not to.

            China is the only country that LEGALLY disparages the majority race. I admit however, that these policies have failed to deliver, and the Uighurs got their share of discontent with the government, but who doesn’t?

            I believe the ongoing event signals a need to shift racial regulations, the Han Chinese have been complaining about inequality and the minority races are “artificially” made lazy. This sort of “punishing me to make you happy” schemes were poised to cause troubles, troubles that we are all seeing right now.

          • Holla Back Atthca local FAKE

            the people who agree that they are barbarians,….. are sad sad brainwashed people….you might as well not talk.. and just post a link to a government page.
            as a foreigner from a place where manors exist and peace are practiced regularly, ( sweden)I would much rather live w/ them or tibet people rather than brainwashed hans… ( i do like hans and have lots of friends) but in this case is diff…….talk about barbarians…….what about the long dirty nailed, spitting in public, pissing in public, yelling in public non showered nose poicking in public, non stop starring and shirtless chinese??? oh i guess because there hans its all good……..poor you

          • Tommy

            If you want to see barbarians then have a look at the pictures in the post where Chinese police throw a dead mother and dead baby in the back of a pickup for everyone to gawk at.

          • too yellow

            if that’s the case, then he didn’t follow the party line. Which is all nationality are part of zhonghuaminzhu (whatever that means) and to together dancing kumbaya yadi yadi yada…

            But they Uighurs did manage to earn their reputation as thieves and robbers of Chinese City. Which wasn’t the case when I left China 15 years, but very much the case when I visited there last year. Here is post I made earlier on the economist comments pages:

            I lived southern Chinese city I live in, Uighur’s reputation has deteriorated quite a lot in recent year. When I was growing up, they are pretty are the people selling selling roast lamb, and hot pot etc. And the feeling is more or less neutral. There was actually a girl in my grade, but not in my class whose dad is from Xingjiang. And she’s pretty popular, since she had golden hair and everyone thought she’s pretty.

            However, after staying in the US for 15 years. It seems their reputation got worse every time I go back for a visit. Last time (2008, right after Tibetan riots), everyone basic move away from people who liked a Uighur. (I was actually warn by my grandma, since she’s afraid that I will at best get my wallet store and at worse got stabbed.)

        • Peteryang

          @too yellow

          That’s what I was talking about. the authority is often reluctant to charge them for minor crimes for fear of racial disunity, which has emboldened them, so from this point of view, the government shares a part of the blame for their bad reputation.

          And in response to the accusation claiming I am “brainwashed”, you might want to ask around, ask those who probably never watch state-run news, they are going to tell you the same thing. This is not heard, but seen/experienced.

          • TBM

            Of course it is barbarism and racism! It was so barbaric of the Chinese to drive the Japnese out of Manchuria! The Japanese were just trying to make new lives there! Racist!

          • Peteryang

            We drove them out because their visas expired.

  • Zhangsan

    The purpose of this blog, to my understanding, is to be a window into what are ‘hot’ topics of discussion on the Chinese internet. From what I can tell, Xinjiang is not one of them, for a number of reasons.

    • Super Kong

      Xinjiang is not ‘hot’, its nuclear right now. This site get DOS attacked so fast…….

  • 888Ch

    chinasmack is accessible in china
    the government officials can track the owner of the site

    • Lord of the Flies

      @888Ch, actually, no they can’t track the owner of this site. Not without lots of help from the USA, where this site is hosted.

      • yellow master race

        hmmm.. website in USA? yep.. that means all Chinese can track the owner of this site..

    • Aru

      There has been a game of whack-a-mole regarding the online comments on Xinjiang riots and the government censor.

      I heard that people start posting about Xinjiang riots on ancient forum threads with politically harmless titles.

      Yeah, just like this post (brand new, though) about fake building in Henan, but with comments about Xinjiang riots. Shall we begin?

  • 维民

    支持维族兄弟的战斗~ 打倒中华人民共和国~ 东突万岁~~~

    • Peteryang
    • d

      哪裏有壓迫 哪裏就有反抗 !!! 革命不朽!!!

      • FangYao

        yes fight with the government, not the local Han chinese people.
        as Han chinese i really dont mind you guys can have independent. wish you are all freedom.

        • mlgb

          But how are they supposed to fight the government. If they even try to petition the government they get locked up or sent back to their home village. What do you think would happen if they fought the government?

          • FangYao

            there is no excuse to harm the normal innocent people, fought with the chinese government, if you are the brave one, you should prepare for anything.
            so killing the women and innocent people on the street, how brave it that!!!!!

          • Fcuk Da Lu Ren

            I dont’ want to engage in political discussions, its useless to deal with you Chinese, you can’t differentiate govt from people unless it suits your needs.. I will say this:

            多行不义必自弊

  • http://www.revmatt.com Rev Matt

    @jim whatson

    I don’t believe that’s a phased building project, but rather a false face. As the story claims it is in order to comply with building regulations, though I can’t speak to the accuracy of that.

    I can, however, note that false face buildings were common in the western frontier of the United States of America in the 1800′s. They were meant to convey that the owner was doing better financially than he really was and thus could afford a larger building.

    • Mercator

      If you follow Joe’s link you can see the building from other angles. It appears to be an unusual triangular shape.

      • Celkian

        I am very serious about being lazy so i ignored the link. However if you follow the back 2nd floor railing you can see it is triangular. Along with the little building coming off at the right side. It clearly is some sort of real building.

  • damn Uighur

    I really dislike the Uighur people in this country,many of them are ignorant, violent, lazy, if they are really brave, they should bomb or fire the ccp gov and police, rather than attacking those ordinary innocent people.Especially they shouldn’t shout here where the topic has nothing to do with these gangs

    • Celkian

      Yeah i agree. People shouldn’t shout about it here. Especially when they have stupid opinions.

  • -’//”^,^”\\’-

    People may feel hopless. Desperate down-trodden people do desperate things. (Not sure if they are that down-trodden.)

    This must be resolved peacefully, I hope. We can all get our cakes and eat it too?

  • Uighurs?
  • yellow master race

    we the yellow maste race are famous for our copypastas!

    see here the original house in Brazil..

    http://freshome.com/2007/11/06/narrowest-house-in-the-world-just-1-meter-wide/

    The next step in our 5 year plan is a 1×1 meter house from France! (sorry no link found)

  • Ming

    So…when are we going to get translation of the Xin jiang riots?

    If Chinasmack wont do it, someone make another sites that will please. Competition = better web sites.

    • Peteryang

      Web users are muted, internet is on the same level of crackdown as Urumqi city, what’s there to translate?

  • Chinaxploitation

    Henan people are laughed at or looked down upon by everyone in Beijing. Go ask any beggar on any street in Eastern China where they come from. Most of those guys are from Henan.

    Those fake buildings are nothing in comparison to the fake villages in NK and Burma though.

  • abc
  • Cool Matt

    Can you think of a better metaphor for China? Looks so good on the outside but the reality is much different.

    • Super Kong

      Ha. The front is the east coast and the back is the west.

      • Somethin Somethin

        Descent analogy. I wish a chinese blogger had said it. It might have sounded cool in Chinglish

  • Holla Back Atthca local FAKE

    As a N. American I love China, I love the chinese people, Since I was brought up in a city with over half chinese people (most ignorant rich cantonese) i needed to explore the true mainland and be exposed to the real culture not the rich kids who lived off mommy and daddy.

    After returning home I had to stick up for chinese people everyday, and explain to friends and family what is really the truth, how most are humble and good hearted hard working people and not the neg side of out N. American Media…

    BUT NOW… it’s getting harder and harder for me to stick to my grounds, as ego’s and brain washed minds are becoming harder to talk too. After returning to China this year I noticed LARGE ego’s grew VERY quick, things were moving and progressing fast but quality was totally missing in every area, now i can’t even talk to my old chinese friends because they believe what ever the media tells them…… TIME TO SEE THROUGH THE LINES, or it will be a very sad future.

    I hope the new generation who i have faith in changest

    • shin

      ^vancity or toronto?

  • http://af TK 4 Lyfe

    鬼佬 did strike a chord but then what that tool Kai said makes sense. No point to go all political apeshit and have chinasmack blocked in CN. But I will say that on some of the features yall should have some follow up shit. Like yall following up on that singer (chick looks like a dood) but no follow up on that Hangzhou street racing news (Hu Bin was recently found guilty of manslaughter) which I think is a much more nutritious topic for chinasmack than a bunch of photoshopped pics of that shemale.

  • fireworks

    Super cool county building codes. So having a nice frontage to hide all the mess, good work local officials. hope u guys win a architectural prize.

  • VeerLeft

    Please don’t catergorize Uighurs as thieves by birth. They are a displaced and undesired people. Hans move in and WITH government help hold all important positions and key industries. Ask a Han business owner if he’d hire a Uighur. 9/10 not, I’m sure.

    • Fcuk Da Lu Ren

      Well said VEER. Its funny to see how Chinese react with disbelief that the shiney happy people in XinJiang are in fact not happy. I watched a documentary about China that had a segment on the the racial tensions with Tibetans and Hans. The dong bei ladies were talking about Tibetans saying they were noisy, rowdy, not clean and basically barbarians. I couldn’t help but laugh because that is the same thing I say about HANS.

      • FangYao

        i couldn’t help but laugh at you, that is the same thing i say about you as well.
        luckily there is just a laugh, the Dong bei lady didn’t use knife.
        no one is better than others, we are all human being, there are many different between us, in china it is still long way to learn, but there is no excuse for the violent towards the normal people.

      • Fcuk Laowais

        LMFAO vanilla face barbarians calling out Chinese (and I ain’t even talking about just Han) is like Blacks calling Whites “niggers”. Know your place, whitey.

        • Fcuk Da Lu Ren

          Haha look at you little Chimatrons up in arms at my comments. Maybe you HANS should evaluate why these things are happening. Maybe you should ask yourself “why are these guys so pissed off they are killing people?”

          Im not advocating that xinjiang ren turn to violence but you know what, its just a taste of your own medicines HAN REN. How does it taste?

          BTW, FCUK lao wais, unorigional as usual, you chimates can only copy what we WHITES do lol

          • FangYao

            haha good way to thinking, one day if someone kill your innocent families, better like you think about what your families did wrong first, dont need to even mention the crime….

          • Fcuk Laowais

            LOL what did the Chinese do to make this dumb cracker so bitter. Hey tell you what, why don’t you go off to Xinjiang (hey being a dumb cracker, I’m sure you can do well to pass off as a Uyghur separatist) and try to fuck with one of those armed Han protesters right now.

            Yeah, just like I thought. Fucking little white pussay.

            P.S. That’s not what she said LOOOOOOL

          • Yin

            You seem to forget that if China chose to retaliate in this situation, it could pretty much wipe out a generation of young Uyghur men like Russia did in Chechnya. That solved Russia’s “problem,” didn’t it?

            Local emotions are pretty raw at the moment. This is definitely not the time to stir shit up. The Xinjiang Han are not your average Han; many are descendants of soldier settlers and know how to stick up for their own.

            And frankly, I agree that they could probably wipe the floor with your pansy ass. You sound like some pampered ABC/Taiwanese faggot who thinks he’s something just because he’s “clean,” “moral,” and “modern,” forgetting that *real* men fought and died for what you enjoy today.

        • Holla Back Atthca local FAKE

          I white cause im a foreigner ??? hahah, wow typical chinese mentality again. considering im from sweden makes me white…nope Im brown !! but again, han chinese look down on brown too.. I hope the Uighurs do what they need to do to gain back there rights and smash the hans !! give them a taste of there own …straight up ….and down

          • FangYao

            yes they will gain back the right by killing the innocent people…wooo so brave…
            by the way whatever you are coming from, who cares of your skin color, even you are color, the racial apartheid history didnt teach you so much, violent never works…..

          • The John

            You are an embarrassment to brown. If your not some idiot saying he is brown. There is NOTHING good are great about killing anyone. HAN OR UYGHUR… They both deserve respect and I hope they can live in harmony. Im sure this whole issue wasn’t a race issue until people made it one. Like you sir… Saying things like, crush the Han. Is really stupid. Especially, when you are not black. I think it is fair that innocent Han AND Uygher people got hurt.

            I for one, hate race wars. I am smart enough to know that they hurt EVERYONE involved.

            Also, I don’t know if you have been to China. I know there is descrimination. But, I don’t see most Chinese as brown hating people.

            Maybe, your experiences proves me wrong.

          • chris

            2 uighurs has been killed by dozens of han,which coward(and ignorant)as they are, have beaten them with the excuse of having raped a girl…

            all this thing about 56 minorities is just goof for a cctv show,the truth is IMPERIALISM.

          • Swede

            fucking brown immigrant get out of sweden you curry fuck

          • Holla Back Atthca local FAKE

            JOHN, your absolutely right….. when i said smash, in my mind I was meaning break through the bars which were killing their peoples history and rights of there freedom, but in the heat of the moment it came out diff… I just see the Uighurs as displaced and hated by all chinese.., I have respect for both sides and hope the violence ends soon and both sides can work out an agreement peacefully..

    • mhn

      While I largely agree with your post about Uighurs being marginalized in society, I think its important to remember that the racial segregation is likely pretty mutual and not all one sided. I really doubt you could find a Uighur that would hire a Han person either. Which is probably one of the reasons that the Han set up their own businesses.

      • Celkian

        True but why is your comment voted up and not his?

      • chris

        well we are missing the point that so far are the uighurs have become a minorance in they own land and minorances usually in order to stay alive many times tend to be closed.This is understandable,considering also the large scale mobilitation carried out…

  • krdr

    Fauna should put back old subtitle, just below main title “Hot internet stories…”. This site is about Chinese (internet) culture, not politics. If someone there’s a plenty of sites that covers politics.

    Value of ChinaSmack is opportunity for “laowai”‘s to see China as is, not as it is from their “ivory towers” as someone said.

    So, stop talking about politics.

  • 4chuan

    lol i bet vanilla ice was really popular in china.. why? cuz i heard they have alot of wiggers. oh! thank you, thank you. i just flew in from xinjiang and am bleeding profusely..

  • Aru

    I can’t comment about Uyghurs’ wish for independence. At the very least I think the Chinese government should give the Uyghurs more cultural and religious freedom. Steady deprivation on the use of Uyghur language and the observation of daily religious practices are definitely not the way to go.

    Racial tension is still inevitable, though.

  • VeerLeft

    mhm- It is not an even playing field at ALL. a nation of a billion people can just about over-run anywhere if they have a foothold.
    It’s like a landslide or passive-aggressiveness.

  • ic

    Even playing field – give jet fighter and drone to Taliban.

    • Peteryang

      they do not know how to operate and maintain.

  • no

    hmm. No. You are over imagining this billion thing. It’s not going to mobilize anything, not by being acting as this single entity. Get the f* out here.

    So many dis-info trolls on this site.

    • VeerLeft

      Mobilize what? What are you referring to? Nobody is saying that China is suddenly a military state in which every man and woman is an invader. Quite the opposite strategy.
      You are totally missing the point.

  • shin

    All I really got out of this is the confirmation that many Chinese people are racist. They hate others who speak different languages and dialects, live in different provinces and cities, have different (darker) skin tones and the list goes on. This god damn country…Fuck China…….and now facebook isn’t working! WTF!!!

    • FangYao

      yes i agree a lot of chinese is racist, i knew a lot.
      you can hope china changed by one day.it needs time.
      but Chinese society is not as violent as western country, we hate but we don’t kill……
      what is more important, life or dislike someone…..

      • shin

        FangYao i’ll have to disagree with you. which “western” country are you talking about? killings that happen in the western world are rarely based on hate and if you believe that western people are more violent than the chinese you have some serious issues with reality and/or indoctrination is alive and well in your household. “hate crimes” as they’re called back home (where you commit a crime towards somebody based strictly on their race) are extremely rare and extremely punishable. and where i’m from you certainly can’t openly express your distaste for people from a visible minority or color on any forum! it’s obviously alive and well on any chinese forum and in everyday chatter on the street…..and it’s going to take a loooooooong time for china to change to an acceptable level of rationale for anything i see day to day over here.

        • krdr

          First, all modern European wars and revolutions were bloody. Maybe, killing wasn’t caused by hate, but “economic” need. Austria wanted to have border with Bulgaria, so they killed 1,2 million of Serbs in 1st World War. If you read newspaper articles from that time, Austrian “feelings” toward Serbs was: hate.

          Don’t forget that racist theories came from western Europe. Skinheads are popular in W. Europe. Europe is cradle of racism. Just take a look what Italians do to Romanian people. They accused Romanians that they are thefts and criminals. Numbers of attacks are reported.

          “Hate crimes” are extremely punishable because they happens often, not rare.

          • shin

            ^ I don’t know what the hell you’re trying to say. And my western world focuses mainly on north america so don’t categorize eastern europe and any country that ISN’T china as part of “western” culture and society. Hate crimes DO NOT happen often where I’m from and where people are civilized.

          • krdr

            And that civilized country is?

            I categorized western countries as part of “western” world. Italy, Germany and Austria are part of “western” world. China is not a part of “west” but it is located west of USA.

          • shin

            to krdr: you’re a moron.

          • krdr

            Good argument.
            BTW, will you answer to my questions?

  • chris

    FAUNA I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW CHINESE(AKA HAN) ARE TALKING ABOUT XINJIANG RIOTS.

    Thanks

    • chris

      well i didnt notice that the xinjiang issue is already occupying most comments.

      Well i would just say that the han pop. have from Mao,who start to send people there, untill now rised from 65 to 40%,making uighur people actually a minorance in their own province.
      oh,but they have a lot of privileges…like what?Being an outsider when it comes to business and a chinese when cctv needs to organize its spring festival eve show?
      Who makes money in xinjiang?Who exploit the oil and other resources?Who is the police chief in Xinjiang and who the governor.Who got the power overthere?How much have uighurs enjoyed the open up?Why do u need to send han to xinjiang?

      BUt even more easy question, why are they actually angry if they are so privileged?and why chinese in xinjiang tend to stress about their being HAN?,.,

      • Yin

        Why did America send so many Americans to Alaska? Why did it send so many Americans to Hawaii?

        It’s the same damn reason.

        • Jamar

          And yet the Japanese ended up being the most prolific ethnic group in Hawaii.

          • Yin

            Does it matter? The goal was to marginalize the natives, make them a minority in their own land; everybody else is a migrant, with no claim to the territory beyond the claim America has… Consequently, in political battles over “ownership,” they can be “depended on” to support America.

          • Samael

            the japanese did a fantastic job of cultural-cide on okinawa. how many of you even know it was an independent (the Ryukyu Kingdom) nation with its own ethnic group, language and culture up till the 19th century?

            and look at okinawa now, no (major) calls for independence, no ethnic tensions, no riots. perhaps Chinese should learn from the japanese instead?

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            Slightly off-topic but Samuel bringing up Okinawa reminded me of this. Interesting stuff.

        • chris

          So because americans did it in the past,you are allowed to do it now?what kind of argoumentation is that?
          Nobody which is not insane or di-honest would argue that the western never did something similar to what s happened in T and in NewJiang,but it doesnt mean that people with etic should just close an eye on it.Or it does?

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            I don’t think anyone is saying that. I think the reason some people bring that up (the whole “but you did it too!” defense) is because they feel others are being a little too self-righteous. There is absolutely no excuse for doing something wrong, regardless of whether others have done it before, but there IS something wrong in being self-righteous, hypocritical, or trying to pin negative universal behaviors on only one ethnic, racial, national group. What is going on between the Han and Uighurs is not something unique to them. It, like all racial and ethnic tension, is common to all races and ethnicities. Trying to help is one thing, but looking down your nose at them as if you and “your kind” couldn’t possibly ever experience such things is just self-righteous arrogance.

            Now, I’m not saying you specifically, chris, I’m just explaining why that defense gets used often. What you intend is not what others often perceive. That’s true for both sides.

          • chris

            I dont think is common to all ethnic groups.
            What is going on in xinjiang is a something very similar to what israel did with palestinians or what in the past european did with native americans.

            Han controll the economy and the politics in xinjiang,thats a matter of fact. Another fact is that from 6% in the beginning,now they account for 40%.
            When you add at this also a strict controll on religion and the typical chinese way to development (拆那) , you can easily understand where this hate comes from.

          • FangYao

            yes there is already face, Uighurs and Han we are living together. is it possible to wipe all the Han out right now??? how about wipe the whole Israel out as well???
            peace and respect each other that’s the only way out.
            china we are a developing country, there are many problems from the government, if you feel unfair,please speak out, but no killing…..

          • FangYao

            yes there is already a fact, Uighurs and Han we are living together now. is it possible to wipe all the Han out of xinjiang right now??? how about wipe the whole Israel out of mid east as well???
            peace and respect each other that’s the only way out.
            china we are a developing country, there are many problems from the government and history, if you feel unfair,please speak out, but no killing…..

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            Hey chris, what I’m saying is that this is a common HUMAN problem. Any ethnicity placed in this kind of situation is more likely than not to react like these ethnicities have. As you said, the Europeans/Americans towards and Native Americans, Jewish and Palestines, Sunnis and Shiites, whites and blacks, Indonesians vs. ethnic Chinese, natives and immigrants, etc. etc.

            What is going on represents the dynamics of power, not of race. You can switch Uighurs and Han and the same thing would happen given the same history and set of circumstances. There is little to suggest a genetic predisposition towards or aversion to this kind of behavior. People in power exercise power. People without power strain against the power exercised upon them. It doesn’t matter what ethnicity or race you are. That’s why no one should be remotely suggesting this is a “Chinese” evil or a “Uighur” evil or whatever. This is a human condition.

          • chris

            Kai,
            you are probably right as is a common problem we see in every multi-ethnic authoritarian state where an ethnic group is in power.And I don’t hate chinese or china, i hate people who abuse of their power or rely on numbers to force something to somebody.`
            Nobody is talking about wheter xinjiang should be indipendent or not but about not trying to wipe a culture out or exclude their natives from the society.

            I was talking with a friend of mine, he’s from the Hunan province.We were speaking about growing xenofobia towards foreigners in Italy and how countries should regulate immigration not to create economics conflicts with the local people, topic which I’ve discussed with a taiwanese.
            We all agree that large scale immigration create conflicts and in case the local people eventually becomes even more poor than the immigrants can explode in conflicts and violence.

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      This just in from China Digital Times (blocked in China):

      Following the weekend’s unrest in Xinjiang, the current censorship and blocking of websites appears to be the most severe in history. Nevertheless, many Chinese netizens are still managing to access outside information and publish their views on the situation. For example, photographs taken by foreign journalists are being spread online; people are finding ways to post on Twitter despite the site being blocked; and netizens are still finding ways to post their views to BBS forums. Overseas Chinese websites and communities are also playing a role by posting information and discussions, many of which can find their way back into Chinese cyberspace. Below is an example of a comment posted on a BBS forum hosted overseas and then reposted onto a large China-based online community populated by Internet executive and journalists. The comment at the bottom was posted at the China-based online community.

      The author of the post is called ulmqman, posted July 7, translated by CDT:

      Phone calls can get through now, not landlines, but cellphones.

      1.Yesterday Han people were very brave and aggressive. There were Han people with knives and sticks on the street everywhere. My sister said that the scene was terrifying, but also felt safe.

      2.The reason Han people took to the streets is because small groups of Uighurs were out killing people. People were killed in front of the Railway Bureau, Hualin Market, Hulihua Hotel entrance. Han people called the police. Police said they do not have enough manpower and cannot come.

      3.Those Han people went to the People’s Square to protest the government. Much of the police power was used to protect government and party committee buildings. On the People’s Square, there were police officers every meter. People were angry. They said that police are all protecting government agencies, there is no effective protection of ordinary people.

      4.Nearby the Sun-Moon-Star (Riyuexingguang) residential district, some Uighurs were beaten to death. Han people were chasing five Uighurs, killed two. Emergency Medical Service came but cannot help, people did not let them to rescue them. But most people still say that we should not kill those innocent people. But those Han Chinese who were killing them said these Uighurs were attacking Han and that’s why they were being chased after that, for three killometers.

      5.One woman who was killed at Erdaoqiao the day before yesterday was a neighbor of my sister. Her two brothers were all out to kill Uighurs. People like that are the most dangerous. Since no one knows who are the killers, they will kill any Uighurs they see.

      6.There are still many work units still in business, Uighurs and Hans. Everyone is worried.

      7.Yesterday there were still many Uighurs selling breads, but today they are all closed.

      8.Kazakhs are in a very difficult situation. They don’t belong to either side. They are afraid of being killed by Uighurs, and afraid of being killed by Hans.

      9. The children of my sister are now very afraid of Uighurs.

      10. No one knows how this thing is going to end.
      and prices have gone up very high.

      Comment:
      * Comparing Tibet last year to today’s Xinjiang, the steps taken by the government are:

      1, blocking news. Ordinary people do not get security warnings
      2, when conflict escalates, using force to crack down
      3, after the crackdown, blaming foreign forces for instigation and organizing.

      In this triology, what people see is that the government has no intention to dialogue with Tibetans or Uighurs who were preparing protests, nor to seize the opportunity to prevent the escalation of conflict. There is no intention to perform the government’s duty to protect citizens safety. It seems like the government intentionally uses the death of ordinary people, further accusing the overseas hostile forces that exist in their mind.

      The following comments, each responding to the previous one, were posted to the same China-based Internet community:

      I cannot say any more. My apologies to everyone. Those who do not get it can try again.

      Yang Jia killed six policeman, is it a crime? yes.

      Uighurs killed more than one hundred Han Chinese, is it a crime? yes.

      What’s the reason for the killings? You may not want to know.

      You can quietly execute Yang Jia.

      But you cannot quietly execute Uighurs.

      You can quietly execute many people, including me. That’s why I am not going to say any more.

      Kill all the ethnic groups different than you, that’s so simple. But that’s how Yugoslavia fell apart.

      One must not kill ethnic groups that are different than you. One must not persecute dissenting opinions. That’s called a Republic.

      Let me say clearly what you mean to say. You just want to say that the political system of this country is bad. xx Party is one party dictatorship. no human rights. no freedom. Therefore even Uighurs want independence; killing and arson are all understandable; and the government using force to crackdown needs to be condemned. But let me ask you something:

      1, for those extreme Uighur separatists, as long as you include them into the map of this country, it does not matter what political system there is, they will not be happy. They want their independent country. If you are the leader, how do you satisfy them?

      2, No matter who is in power, what political system it is, no government can allow the territory to be split. The Chinese government is maintaining the nation’s territorial integrity and social stability, cracking down on violent crimes. How are these actions against any “universal values?”

      3, facing those rioters killing and arson, if one does not use force, how can you control the situation? by kneeling on the ground and praying? are you a Qigong master with supernatural power?

      If we had a good government and system, this kind of rebellion would not happen in the first place.

      Let’s not talk about whether the government and system is good or bad for now. Killing ordinary citizens is a crime against humanity. This must be executed without amnesty.

      In the short term, there is a need to crack down. But this is an ethnic nationality issue, it cannot be solved by killing a few Uighur terrorists.

      The root of the problem is the policies and their implementation by our own government.

      In normal times the government just uses appeasement in order to maintain stability. When things happen then they use force to crackdown. There is no mature plan.

      If this time a few officials are removed, and with real reflection on ethnic polices, maybe there is hope. Otherwise the situation will only get worse in the hands of those officials.

      The conflict between ethnic groups cannot be solved by force. How come the end result became a crowd of Han with clubs going around to chase Uighurs?! Those officials really should be the ones being killed.

      I copied and pasted it, added some markup to help retain some of the original formatting for clarity but sorry if its still a bit unclear.

      • FangYao

        thanks kai, good job..
        after reading, do you still have angry for innocent Uighrus or Han!!!!

        • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

          Do I still have angry for what? I don’t have anger towards innocent people whatsoever.

          • FangYao

            sorry Kai, I didn’t ask you…mistake
            “you” : the people who submit angry comments towards chinese

      • Peteryang

        Baidu users are abusing Guangzhou’s party chief Wang Yang, calling him a Han traitor for kowtowing to the Uighurs when handling the factory brawl — http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=%CD%F4%D1%F3

      • chris

        thanks Kai for this post.The situation sounds dire,if i have to express an opinion about i would say that for sure who is responsbile for this massacre,for all this deaths,han and uighurs the third entry has the answer.

  • me

    who gives A FLYING FCUK ABOUT this building.

    WHERE is the discussion about XINJIANG ffs.

    pos china gagged press.

    • Samael

      bbc has a big forum + lots of articles from journalists whos been on the ground since the riots started. why dont u go there? dumbass.

  • The Grudge

    Fauna, please speak about what’s going on in XinJiang right now, and risk ending up in a black jail for months, or worse, just to satisfy our pampered and safe asses in our democratic countries. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

    (I’m being sarcastic here, as I am fully aware about the constrains under which you are operating, which are mainly 1). Being Chinese and 2). Living in China) 3). Expressing your voice on the internet (which we all agree should be punishable by the following: Glass rod torture followed by castration, scaphism and ultimately death and then obviously tossed to the lions).

    I’ve told you once, and I now reiterate my statement: Are you ready to handle the monster you’ve created Fauna?

    The world wants to know! ;) What the fcuk is going on in China?!? We want to know the real shit!

    Bridge the culture once and for all, so that we can all live in harmony and peace… The world is craving for HARMONY!

    HARMONY! HARMONY! HARMONY!

    Let’s all join hands and sing!

    • FangYao

      you need to clam down…..my friend..
      yelling = nothing

    • Aru

      Chinasmack has become too popular abroad to simply ignore the biggest headline about China (in the international press anyway)…

      Anyway, now that Han Chinese comprises for more than 40% of Xinjiang population, there is no way that’s going to change. Mass migration and assimilation. Uyghurs are becoming a minority in their own homeland. Soon, they’ll lost their language too.

      And if the government won’t change its policy, what options are left for the Uyghurs?

      • FangYao

        of course there are many things need to be done by the government. for an individual person, if you are really care about the culture and people, one power is limit.
        maybe try your best to wake up the people around you?
        one thing i am sure the policy wont changed by the violent,killing never stop the problems!!!

  • Cool Matt

    I think its really possible that Chinasmack is being held hostage. Remember not too long ago it was flooded and we were all denied access.
    How easy would it be to tell the ppl at chinasmack to harmonize or it will happen again?
    This is why there have been no stories like Xinjiang or other controversial stories since.

  • Samael

    so when is the Australian government going to start cracking down on the leb infestation in western Sydney?

  • Peteryang

    I prefer to keep the Xinjiang discussion in this thread, big title will arouse the censor.

  • whatever

    Dude…

    I’m just saying, China is still in it’s developing phase, so of course it will have f***ed up problems and may seem “backward” to those in the developed nations. Just imagine where you would be 100 years ago during the industrial revolution (hell, just look at where shit was 80 years ago). Progress has been made already in the West. Sure, you can say it is China is stupid for whateva. But the point is the West has already done it’s share things which it benefited from. The West is still reaping the rewards…it is “developed.”

    Of course you have the right to opinionate (and for the right reasons). But, let’s put things in perspective and context once in awhile. Look yourself in the mirror and reflect, etc. A lot of you say: so fucking what, what does what people did 100 years ago have to do with ME. But you are benefiting. It’s all connected. (And of course, the World is also benefiting.)

    I’m just saying. Stop being assholes once in awhile and reflect.

  • Rawr

    Well, at least it’s not a Potemkin village like e.g. “Kijong-dong” in NK (look it up, it’s a very interesting “village”)

  • Simon

    I want to laugh but it’s just not funny anymore.These “prop” buildings are becoming so popular in many Chinese cities to give the ‘outward impression’ to visiting leaders that the money from the development budget is not ending up in the pockets of local officials.

  • Phobe

    A brilliant way to actually cheat the “White Man’s Religion”….

    Bravo…Bravo…!

  • ASIAN

    It is obvious that this site is created for those idiots who hate China and Chinese, who dont even knwo the difference between Chinese and Indian, dont even know where is Asia, and have been brained-washed by western media.

    Look at this note from TBM who wrote: It was so barbaric of the Chinese to drive the Japnese out of Manchuria! The Japanese were just trying to make new lives there! Racist!”

    Imagine Millions of soldiers from a South American country invaded and and killed 80% of the Californian, use the children for chemical test,and young gilrs as comfort women, rapped their grandmothers, and appoint the Governor of California as Japlifornia King, and they are just “there ot make nwe lives.” Will American welcome them ..

    All you morons stopped talking cocks

    • Peteryang

      He was trolling, and I trolled back.

    • Aru

      It was a sarcasm. And no, I doubt if this site was created to bash China. Though it does attract a good number of insecure jittery Han fenqings and foreign China bashers. So I guess it’s 50-50.

  • Woaiqian

    I have also seen Chinese people that drive nice cars but live in crappy homes. This is of course more common among Chinese people living outside of China.

    Everything going on in the news right now reminds me of the Anti-Chinese sentiment that exists in many other parts of Asia. It’s not completely the same but there are similarities. The overseas Chinese in countries such as Indonesia and the Philippines dominate most sectors of business and/or academics. Anti-Chinese riots have occurred in those countries where 100′s-1000′s of Chinese were killed by the rioters. Why? Because local Indonesians or Filipinos blame the Chinese for their economic problems. Here’s the best one I ever heard coming out of the Philippines, “They (Chinese Filipinos) don’t pay their taxes.” Most of the Chinese in those countries are rich and prosperous while most of the locals aren’t. Yet, most of the Chinese that immigrated to those places went there with absolutely nothing and made it by working hard.

    Yeah, the Uighs are oppressed. That’s obviously part of it. What’s the other reason they started what they did? “The ((Han)Chinese are the only ones benefitting from the economic changes.” Again, we hear that the (Han)Chinese people are prospering while the locals aren’t. Yet most of the Han Chinese went to that region with absolutely nothing and making it by working hard.

    Although the violence is something I want to condone, it is inevitable in this situation since there are simply too many Chinese people in one place. It has happened in the past and it just happened again. Is the problem just because of the way that Chinese people are? I can also bet you that 9/10 (Han) Chinese people in XJ will tell you that the Uighs are lazy and “don’t appreciate what the govt is doing for’em.” In Indonesia and Philippines, the overseas Chinese say pretty much the same thing about their local neighbors.

    I’m not saying that the (Han) Chinese are the complete victims here and neither are the Uighs. Both sides are obviously ignorant and racist. How are these people supposed to coexist though? What are the solutions to these types of problems?

    • chris

      Like i said many mistakes has been done by moving masses of han into xinjiang, instead of improving education of uighurs.
      Han are hard workers,no doubt about and both are victims of the circumstances which force people to produce more and more, to consume more and more, to becoming competitive in a world which from economic point of view has no barriers anymore but from cultural point of view is becoming more and more extremist.

    • chris

      han chinese went there and work hard,like they do in th e philippines or in indonesia but again, the numbers and somethimes how they behave makes local people hate them.And dont tell me that if u want make big business the “guanxi” doenst account. In china “guanxi” is the first thing, guanxi with officials and so on, and who rules xinjiang?

      • FangYao

        one side is dislike behave, the other side is killing voilent behave…..
        the end of the day Han chinese are still the trouble makers…..

        • chris

          nobody said the han are trouble makers but there is a strong arrogance behind, the arrogance of the power thinking to controll people’s life trough economic development.

          • FangYao

            sounds more like American + western culture for me….

          • chris

            well honestly,like i said is that the government have been focusing for too long time on han nationalism in order to win support from from yhe powerfull chinese diaspora and that put apart some ethnic minorance who feel themselves isolated…

          • chris

            in the long term,as china becomes a superpower many other nations could be affraid of this han nationalism and begin to think whether han chinese would treat them as tibetans or uighurs…

          • FangYao

            if you live in china for a long time, dont need me to explain the Han Chinese society isnt voilent at all.
            most chinese people treat themselves as second class in the world, for these peaceful chinese people, what is your way to think i do not understand!!!!
            the other hand,for Tibet&Uighurs you need to classified the Communist government behave and Han chinese people…..

          • 4chuan

            FangYao says:
            Thursday, July 9, 2009 at 6:30 pm

            if you live in china for a long time, dont need me to explain the Han Chinese society isnt voilent at all.
            ____________________________________

            I know you say a lot of things that are bullshit, but I’m choosing to call you on this one. I have been in China for one year, and in this time I have seen more barfights, street violence, and domestic abuse than the rest of my life combined. I’ve had people I don’t know try to fight me simply because I am a foreigner. I have seen men beating the shit out of their girlfriends in the middle of the street with other people watching and nobody lifts a finger to help. All of these were Han people.

            I have travelled in many poor and developing countries that are renowned for violence and experienced nowhere near the level of casual violence that I have seen in China. The only reason Chinese people aren’t running around shooting each other over stupid shit every single day is their government won’t let them have guns.

            But don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying this is a racial characteristic – it’s a cultural thing. Most Chinese are really nice and it’s very difficult to get robbed in this country but every few days I see people fighting each other over stupid bullshit. You simply cannot say that Han Chinese people are not violent – they are just as prone to violence as anyone else, it’s just considered acceptable to assault somebody in a bar because you’re drunk and he looked at you wrong, or beat your wife because she insulted your manhood.

          • fangyao

            to 4chua
            i guess you watching too many piracy action DVD in china, put into your own mind thinking violence is all over china….sorry about that

  • krdr

    Actually, this events in Urumqi are very similar to those in Serbia, on Kosovo, ten years ago. The pattern is similar.

    First, there’s a protest. Then, there’s a clash with police. West media makes biased reports. Reports on western media stated than more than 150 people died, without identifying victims. Typical western “TV consumer” will think: “Those damn Chinese, killed 150 Uyghurs!”

    There’s a suspicion thing that all Uyghur women I saw on TV covered their head with kerchief, at least not full head, as it done in middle Asia.

    Western media also omit to mention simple fact that cause of demonstrations happened a month ago.

    Scene with women crying was also performed by Albanian women on Kosovo ten years ago and in Bosnia 18 years ago. There’s to much parallels

    • whatever

      Yeah. It may even be a plot by the NWO/bilderburg group.

      • krdr

        No, MI5. It wouldn’t be a first time.

  • kevin

    So what. in the end nobody gives a fuck about the muslims in Xinjiang. The US government and the rest of the west actually hope that China continue to hit hard on the muslim population so Xinjiang doesnt develop into a new heaven for terrorists in the backyard of Afghanistan and Pakistan

    • chris

      well,do u really think that terrorism can be fought trough repression and executions?
      Look US foreign policies in all these years.Do u think the invasion of Iraq made more or less terrorism?What do u think made talibans so strong in afganistan?…
      US dont give a shit about xinjiang for the seimple reason that china is a big market they dont want to loose for some poor muslims (not kuwait case).If the government doesnt really deal in a wise way, xinjiang could turn out to become the next kossovo

  • Phobe

    And remember the “White Man’s Religion” is basically a Eurocentric model that is a form of consumerism and has nothing of real value to it except to pollute and destroy the earth. Anything or anyone who works to undermine “societies based on government money” deserve support.

    How about people who can run their own banks?

    http://www.dgcmagazine.com

    or

    Community Currencies

    http://www.ccmag.net

    • VeerLeft

      I fail to see how ANY of this is the fault of THE WEST!!!!
      This is 100% a domestic issue. Of Domestic making as well.

  • PUSAN PLAYA

    Xinhua & Co don’t want Joe Chinaman to realise that we’re all on the same team, the Muhammadans are the common enemy of humanity and they’d rather deny the fact that Laowai’s in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for their freedom than admit to reality.

    Read the Koran, Muslims aren’t all bloodthirsty animals but they’re obliged to emulate a certain bloodthirsty caravan raider as a matter of faith (PBUH LOL). This isn’t a “race riot” because this shit wouldn’t have happened if the Uigurs had been Christians.

    • Aru

      Hey, this site is back! And the comments are intact.

    • Aru

      @Pusan

      But you didn’t read the Qur’an, did you?

      And I’m sure it will be the same even if the Uyghurs are Christians. Check out Tibet. They’re Buddhist, loved and romanticized by the West. But that still didn’t stop China from flooding Tibet with Han Chinese migrants, depriving the indigenous people from any real positions in policy making (just tokens), controlling the use of the native language and their religious freedom.

      I don’t see any differences.

  • http://www.orienthq.com Eamon

    Much better than North Korea already, remembered seeing a picture of a whole apartment complex that was only like a board in front.

  • Tommy

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/15/2626234.htm?section=entertainment

    I cant help but laugh at what the Chinese consulate tried to do in Australia. The Chinese in power seem to be so confident of their right to boss people around that when they come up against someone who is not interested in their posturing they seem completely stumped. Then they always fall back on the “if you don’t do what we tell you, we will have hurt feelings”

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/pictures/violent-fight-shanghai-famous-nanjing-road/ enyee

    formalism.house is confortable place to live,but not tourism palace to watch

  • http://sosadnohave Farouk

    fauna i like this arguments

  • danp

    That looks just like australian building laws! except we have to leave the old crumbling “heritage” facade up and put the new building behind.

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»