Hui Minority Beats Lanzhou Chengguan Onto Knees Crying

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Chengguan aka: the City Urban Administrative and Law Enforcement Bureau, or everybody’s favorite enforcer of law and defender of harmony, got a taste of their own medicine from the vengeful hands of the people in a Hui Muslim dominated community.

From Tianya:

This weekend, due to the recent need to repair our house, along with my wife we went to the Xigu Porcelain Material Market, afterwards I decided with my wife to go to Xiaoxihu Shopping Center to buy some household goods. Because from Xigu to Xiaoxuhu station was still far from the shopping center, we decided to get off at Route 50 and walk to the shopping center, in front of the shopping center my wife wanted to eat some snacks like sweet bun and noodles, together we sat on the side of the street and began to eat, just as we took a few bites, the peddlers began to yell “the Chengguan are coming,” we then stood to finish our snack and pay the boss [peddler], the boss was just beginning to pack up his stand; as we gave him the money we saw the peddlers beside us were already shoving and pushing with the Chengguan. Consequently, because the number of Chengguan was fairly numerous, along with the police from the local police station showed up together. Perhaps they were emboldened by ample [numbers], the Chengguan violently enforced the law, pushed down every peddler’s stall they came upon, and fruits, snacks, and noodles were thrown across the street. Many in the crowd were angry at what they saw. Including me, many peddlers wouldn’t take it anymore. Suddenly, a couple of people went up and threw the Chengguan captain on the ground, the other Chengguan and police saw that there was too many people, and the crowds was also very angry, and they all fled far from the scene.

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People saw that the Chengguan captain was captured, everybody started to pick up the things on the ground and threw them at the Chengguan, fruits were thrown everywhere, trash was flying everywhere, scenes from a movie where corrupt official were pelted with rotten eggs before their execution unfolded in reality, people cursed while beating the Chengguan.

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Far to the side women were picking up the remaining fruits, looks like they were a couple of peddlers. The beating continued on one side, while on the other side, the peddlers have already started to proceed with their life, picking up the things on the ground.

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Chengguan was caught by the crowd, then people proceeded to surround him and attack him in groups, maybe it was because this captain beaten badly, he did not run after being caught.

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Within the vast sea of people, The Chengguan had already disappeared within the beatings among the crowd, I stood by watching from afar.

Within the crowd stood people carrying their children witnessing this scene, I do not know what these kids will think deep down inside at the sight of this event today.

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My wife and I can’t bare to watch it anymore, watching those peddlers rolling on the ground in pain, those  peddlers beaten and covered in blood, and those other Chengguan and police who ran under a tree far away smoking cigarettes witnessing the whole thing. We went in the store bought what we need, took approximately 1 hour, when we came out it was still a sea of people, the traffic was jammed for over an hour, this regarding Lanzhou’s east to west city layout meant that all traffic was basically paralyzed.

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Looked like we have no choice but to walk home, when we walked passed the place where the circle of assailing crowd was, within it came outcry that sounded like a pig being butchered, followed by the sound of crying and begging. I stood on the high ground and watched, the captain that was beaten was on his knees, people were spitting at him, throwing trash at him, some came up and gave him a few kicks. While not as classic as the statue of Qin Hui kneeling for display, this scene was nearly the same. An old man scolded; “Did you grow up eating shit? Wasting food like this, deserve to be beaten, beat this dog bastard to death.” The kneeling Chengguan pleaded in tears; “big brothers, grandpas, I was wrong, please stop beating me.”

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The people beside him are pointed at him, shouting at him: You dog bastard grew up eating shit, wasting things like this, beat him to death, beat him!, A couple people blocked everyone, asked them, “what did you eat growing up?”
Then they pulled him up, let him see for himself the goods that he ruined.

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Xiaoxihu was like this for over 2 hours, no one came to control the scene, the disturbance continued!

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The sea of people continues to paralyze this city!

Nothing we can do  but to walk home like this, watching all this unfold while walking home.

Comments from Tianya:

愤怒的宙斯:

Chengguan and peddlers will always be at odds; it is just that Chengguan have greater capacities. To tell you the truth I hate those unscrupulous peddlers, operating without permits, polluting the environment, place to attract a scene. Everything always have two sides, I maintain the middle ground!

别摸我鸡鸡

Fuck, these Chengguan did not go through training, claiming to be the number one Kung Fu gang went so far as to being defeated. The disgrace of China~~

eric842630

They are just the leader of rascals, to an extent even worse.

cruise0755

Fuck, sometimes you can’t do without Chengguan, under my building there are always people smoke meat deep into the night, choking me to death.
At night many people drink and cause a scene, thankfully Chengguan are there to chase them away.

天崖法院审判长

I was wondering, the unbeatable Chengguan lost? Then looked again their opponents are the white cap gang [ethnic Hui]. Suddenly I realized, I decided to support Chengguan this one time.

牛眼看鸡眼

Don’t tell me that peddlers loitering, disorderly setting up shop, setting up stands to block traffic, don’t pay taxes, refuse health inspections, and impede social equality are reasonable? Chengguan’s use of force often didn’t follow the local realities to humanely enforce the law, but at least it is in accordance to law! A bunch of unscrupulous peddlers when facing legal enforcers, are not vulnerable groups, but rogue groups!

loxxq

Hui people and Chengguan, the two are the bane of our nation!!! Dog bite dog, can bite each other as they please!!! Chengguan are all bandits, Hui people are all barbarians!!!

吕殿荣

Han people are not as unified as ethnic minorities, this time I don’t know who to support.

天孤鸟

Of course he got beaten, those peddlers are all ethnic minorities. Chengguan can’t do anything about ethnic minorities.

efrik

Hui people taught us a lesson.

不可湿也就是回

Only because they are Hui, if it is Han people then they can only endure and keep silent. Xingjiang thieves are one level higher than the police, Hui people are one level higher than Chengguan. Han people are only fourth class people, anyone can bully them around.

gxd112200

Beat Chengguan dogs to death, I’ll beat one when I see one…

young13叮叮

Chengguan are really evil, they are just like bandits.

Comments from NetEase:

liyin1937

Chinese Chengguan is our nation’s top secret military organization in development, normally Chengguan manages cities, practicing guerilla warfare tactics; During war they can be organized into a conventional unit, having the ability to assault, recon, and infiltration; can endure, can tolerate [harsh condition]; a ready to battle reserve force. The Pentagon top secret report state: The Chinese Chengguan contingent is a fearful military organization that has great capacity; can rely on only a rusty van or pickup truck to do battle in all conditions. (Our country promises that it will not preemptively use Chengguan against foreign forces).

wsk1038

Don’t tell me that you need to have these peddlers put their stands in front of your door to realize the necessity for Chengguan.Keep cursing, you Nazis, if you say Chengguan are dogs, then you are not worth dogshit! Support Chengguan!!

li.tianyou.h

Chengguan have no choice, cities have to be controlled, all just conflict between the low classes [Chengguan vs. peddlers]

pecker88

Water can carry boats, but it can also sink it, the boat is going to sink…

梅子梅子

Hui people good job

Note: Many of the comments on Tianya are bigoted in nature which may highlight the ethnic tensions that exist within China. Negative perceptions exist toward ethnic Hui and Uygurs where they are often stereotyped to be thieves and con artists in China. In addition, many also question the ethnic differences emerge as to why ethnic minorities can resist against authority while most common Chinese submit to it.

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  • Kellen

    hey someone’s saying good things about muslims.

    沙发?

    • bobmarley

      Im not accusing you im just commenting regarding your comment.
      Well i knew somebody was going to mention the fact they are muslims,although i really think that religion had nothing to do with this and that this was a public uproar in marketplace against authority.Simply put, the chenguan got pwnt by an angry mob, and people do mobbings regardless of race, colour or creed. Heck we used to mob highschool teachers and cause riots in school.People do it after football matches, nobody points at them and says hey, catholics stop beating up the person you are angry at.

    • cat of of the bag

      I agree that the Hui minority are a pain, but this is only the beginning of what I can only assume will be more attacks against the police state. People have had enough of their lives and means to make a living being controlled.

  • Fcuk Da Lu Ren

    Damn it, my internet was too slow I should have been first SNOOGANS

  • luis zhang

    the gap between government and the public is increasing extremely.

  • Fcuk Da Lu Ren

    I have to say I agree with Bob Marly. The fact that Chinese are so vehement against muslims only shows me how racist they truly are (and I am racist, so that is saying a lot).

    The fact is that a HAN got whooped and they are mad about it. Although if you said a HUI was not Chinese they would paint red flags on their faces and go into a frenzy.

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      I have to disagree with this, FDLR.

      First of all, I think mainland Chinese people can be some of the most racist bastards on the planet though the vast majority of the time it is not because of genuine hatred but because they really are ignorant and lack experience with other races.

      That said, I don’t think being “vehement against muslims” is racism. Last I checked, being Muslim was not a race, but a religious belief…one that includes a broad spectrum of races as the world’s second largest religion (largest if you split up Christianity). I think FDLR just got ahead of himself though.

      I don’t think this issue has much to do about race at all. It’s about perceptions of fairness. Chinese people resent the chengguan because they’re often bullies throwing their weight around. Many Chinese (Han) people also resent the Hui and other ethnic minorities because (as Joe above noted) these ethnic minorities enjoy certain well-known benefits and preferential treatment.

      (For those who aren’t familiar, here’s an example: The minority that is most popularly resented and stigmatized would be the Xinjiang Uyghurs, widely feared as petty thieves who are legally allowed to carry knives around that the police must handle with kiddie gloves. They’re also the ones who slash themselves and claim they have HIV when they get caught trying to pickpocket someone so no one dares to approach them. Keep in mind that it isn’t just the Han who are weary of them.)

      I’m not saying there’s no racist element involved for everyone here, I’m just saying that the bigger reasons here is that a lot of Chinese resent that both demographics generally aren’t bound by the same rules that they are.

      • http://www.chinasmack.com Joe

        Bingo Kai,the longstanding problem of disunity among the Chinese goes far beyond ethnic differences but cultural, economical, and even regional ones. Northerner don’t like Southerner, city folks don’t like rural ones, etc. All of this go back to the issue of inequality or as Kai said fairness. One one hand the gov’t tries to forge a greater Chinese identity (56 ethnicities one happy family stuff) they also enforce strong affirmative action programs benefiting ethnic minorities. Most notably the one child system where it only applies to Han people (imagine if this happened in the US where the ethnic majority was limited in the same way…), likewise college acceptance of minorities are also much higher, etc.
        Historically Chinese are actually incredibly tolerant people where trading centers during the Tang Dynasty were often flooded with foreigners living side by side with the Chinese. Later bigotry and ressentiment probably developed out of foreign subjugation and once again unfair treatments (i.e wearing pigtails,etc).

        • great master harmony

          there is only “chinese identity” in this world; the Han-chinese who declarated themselfes “chinese race” back in 1911. And PRC-citizens who were forced to be the “chinese” by communist party, old and new PRC-nationalists..

          the fact is that most minorities cant be the part of chinese society because chinese messed up their languages, culture and way to life and forcing them to live the “chinese lifestyle”. So do chinese not acsepting them as own part unless it comes to the “harmony and peace”-thing..

          many of those peddlers are unemployed or famillies of poor farmers, who are trying to survive by such small business the hard time when their chinese citizens are going to factories or enjoying the higher position in goverment and chinese communist party. Hui never acsepted the chinese rule over them completly so they are looking a little bit independent on such actionism done by central chinese communist party and local corupt-buerocrats, who are trying to clean up the streets for chinese supermarkets and chinese owned restourants..

          • too yellow

            I assume when you say “chinese lifestyle”, you really western lifestyle. Chinese people has lost more or less anything traditional or “Chinese” about them. [and as a side note, the “chinese race” decleared in … 1912, consisted of 5 races and includes the hui.(which back then included Muslim of all backgrounds in China and oddly also the Kaifeng Jew….)

      • the tank man

        Stinking honkies get a juicy kick out of china bashing stories, huh ?
        Make yourself useful. Kai

      • Celkian

        I don’t really understand your reasoning at the end of this Kai. Can’t people say the same sort of thing about Roma in Europe? Blacks in America? Good examples about the scum of society don’t change that it is still racism to apply it to the whole lot.

        And are the minorities in China really in the SUPERIOR position? Can they count on their culture being as nourished in the future as the rest? Are they rich, influential, booming? Your final point reminds me of when someone treated unfairly suddenly begins to lash out at people not treated the same as them as having it so much better when really they all they are seeing is their own mistreatment.

        • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

          Hey Celkian, I’m not sure I understand your comment (er, about you not understanding my reasoning, LoL). What “good examples about the scum of society” did I mention or try to use to “change that it is still racism to apply it to the whole lot”? I’m just not clear on what you’re asking/saying, so maybe you can clarify.

          And are the minorities in China really in the SUPERIOR position?

          The issue here is subjective perception. It is true that minorities in China receive superior or preferential treatment in a variety of things, both economic, political, and legal. It is also true that they’re disadvantaged in many other things.

          Your final point reminds me of when someone treated unfairly suddenly begins to lash out at people not treated the same as them as having it so much better when really they all they are seeing is their own mistreatment.

          Are you talking about me personally? Because I fully agree that people can resent others when they are treated WORSE than others, just as they can resent others for others being treated BETTER than themselves. Frankly, that’s really two sides of the same coin, don’t you think?

          Anyway, not sure what point you were trying to bring up, so feel free to clarify. I’m interested in hearing what you think.

          • Celkian

            My first comment was about this “(For those who aren’t familiar, here’s an example: The minority that is most popularly resented and stigmatized would be the Xinjiang Uyghurs, widely feared as petty thieves who are legally allowed to carry knives around that the police must handle with kiddie gloves. They’re also the ones who slash themselves and claim they have HIV when they get caught trying to pickpocket someone so no one dares to approach them. Keep in mind that it isn’t just the Han who are weary of them.)”

            I just thought that was strange. It seemed like you were justifying the racism and i mentioned American blacks and Europe’s Roma as examples of how examples of criminals are always used to justify racism.

            This comment ” Your final point reminds me of when someone treated unfairly suddenly begins to lash out at people not treated the same as them as having it so much better when really they all they are seeing is their own mistreatment.” wasn’t aimed at you personally and is certainly convoluted so i will say it again and hope i do better.

            It seems to me that some of China’s minorities have very deep problems ahead of them, including prejudice, economic disadvantage, and that China’s more homogeneous people will become an irresistible cultural force that might water down their uniqueness.

            The main power in preventing this is with the CCP but all they are doing is placating them from bureaucratic inconveniences since they believe outsiders will move quicker to rebellion or insurgency. I think this is actually a problem for “outsider” minorities for the government has a great hand in nourishing minority cultures and no matter what concessions it makes for reality and image its image of you would be that you are a always a potential problem. So when the time comes to give language, property, representation, diversity, cultural schooling the government will give as much as it feels necessary and will do with resentment, not understanding and not friendship.

            What i meant when i mentioned resentment was then two part. Firstly that the resentment seemed out of proportion considering the more serious disadvantage of these minorities. Secondly, i was trying to explain why then that was the popular view (assuming you intended to explain the popular view) to myself and it reminded me of being a kid in a class and being singled out by the teacher for talking despite not being alone and how that felt and the resentment you would feel for why others got away with it. That is what i intended to show, that feeling of injustice where one lashes out at those who are not treated so unjustly (ok so kids talking in class isn’t the perfect example) despite doing nothing wrong. But how could one blaming another for not suffering as they do truly be justice unless that justice is misplaced and bitterness and selfishness has guided it astray. So i ment to simply that the Chinese angry about these “unfair” things would make me think they should be truly angry about the injustice they face alone (which as i have said the minorities will face their share of injustice as well) and that being angry as minorities for their treatment is misplaced. And being misplaced i thought there must be some deep bitterness and selfishness as there is when this usually happens. OK I REALLY GOTTA LEAVE *prays for clarity and spelling*

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            Celkian,

            I just thought that was strange. It seemed like you were justifying the racism and i mentioned American blacks and Europe’s Roma as examples of how examples of criminals are always used to justify racism.

            Oh, no, absolutely not. I wasn’t trying to justify racism at all. I was offering an example for those reading who might not be familiar with some of the ethnic stereotypes in China. Overall, I find the vast majority of stereotypes to be quite understandable, just not always reasonable, and almost never rationally defensible.

            So i ment to simply that the Chinese angry about these “unfair” things would make me think they should be truly angry about the injustice they face alone (which as i have said the minorities will face their share of injustice as well) and that being angry as minorities for their treatment is misplaced.

            I agree. People should blame the wrongs and those who wronged them, not those who simply weren’t wronged with the same wrongs that they were wronged with. :)

            OK I REALLY GOTTA LEAVE *prays for clarity and spelling*

            Heh, yeah, you might want to re-read what you wrote above when you have some time. It got a bit hairy but I got through it and I’m pretty sure I understood your point (and largely agree).

  • colin

    Within my first few days of being in China I was warned by a teacher at our school about the Chengguan, basically he said if they are coming your way get out quick. I didn’t get what he meant then but after 5 years of being here its more the obvious.

    But now I expect things like this to happen so no surprise.

  • http://bokane.org Brendan

    This is the feel-good story of the week as far as I’m concerned. Shame about the racism.

    • Our China

      More great policing here in China…

      The old.. stand back and watch approach. Studies show it decreases police casualties by nearly as much as 100%!

      Great work guys.

      • mike

        HA yes…at first i was like, oh the police/chengguan are getting a taste of their own medicine! great! then i saw the part about most of them sitting under a tree smoking. outlaw cigarettes and maybe we’ll see real law enforcement…

        • too yellow

          well, they can’t do much else. Only black uniformed police (邢警) have the power to arrest people. The blue uniformed police (片警) can only issue warnings, fine and hold you unless a 邢警 arrived to do the arrest. Chengguan of course have no real rules governing them as they are not real police, but they are more or less on their own and at their own peril. (btw, did you know none of these people can make traffic stops and issue tickets? for that you’ll need a white uniformed 交警.) The way Chinese police system works is truly weird.

  • http://www.chinasmack.com Fauna

    This is a good post, thank you, Joe.

  • Overseas Chinese

    Chengguan are necessary, but their methods of enforcement need improvement. Destroying food in front of so many hungry people will only make them angry.

    • too yellow

      Chengguan are definitely not necessary, what China really need is a good well trained professional police force that is capable of do the job of policing. Rather than say, rely on these mercenary, cop for hires to save cost and escape responsibility. China’s police force less than one tenth of the US in per capita basis and they deal with a lot more issue than the police need to worry about here. So instead the City hire poorly train and poorly (and not permanently) paid Chengguans (because the police after all answers to the national ministry of public security and don’t give too much of a damn what cities want) to do the job of police officer who went though academy training and have a permanent stable job.

      • Overseas Chinese

        You said you want police to be well trained and professional. If they are, wouldn’t it be a waste to get them to enforce petty offences like peddling, spitting, and littering laws? Not only that, it will affect their morale. I don’t think anyone would want to sign up, receive tough professional training and then sent off to catch street peddlers.

      • yellow master race

        Chengguan = not a police force.

        –China’s police force less than one tenth of the US in per capita basis and they deal with a lot more issue than the police need to worry about here.–

        american police and sherif offices do much more work, have much more administrative assitance and autohority than chinese.

        –So instead the City hire poorly train and poorly (and not permanently) paid Chengguans (because the police after all answers to the national ministry of public security and don’t give too much of a damn what cities want) to do the job of police officer who went though academy training and have a permanent stable job.–

        again; Chengquan are not police.

    • great master harmony

      “oversea chinese”

      what is this? is it a family clan? is it a mafia? is it a nationality? is it a country club? is it a gang? is it a worker union? what is it and who told you you are the one?

      • Overseas Chinese

        “Chinese” is both plural and singular. Duh.

        • yellow master race

          “oversea chinese”

          what is this? is it a family clan? is it a mafia? is it a nationality? is it a country club? is it a gang? is it a worker union? what is it and who told you you are the one?

  • VeerLeft

    So fuckin’harmonious! Yay!

  • http://www.jaydwang.com dingding

    Sigh, what a shame. If somehow the Chinese can realize that they all live in the same People’s Republic of China and that it pays in the long run for everyone if everybody treated each other just a little nicer and showed more forgiveness. Life is not a zero-sum game, they really need to educate themselves on this point.

  • oh yeah

    love the way the rest of the cops buggered off!

  • dace

    Nice to see the netizens didn’t know who to hate more – hte bastard muslims or the bastard chengguan. If the story had been about chengguan beating peddlars in a non-muslim area, there would be 99.9% posts against them.

    • bball

      99% of the posts are against them…

  • J(/@,|,e\)L–SPACEMAN

    Yeah, these commenters are dumbasses idiots.

  • Tommy

    Tick tick tick tick BOOM ! ! !

  • Josh

    What about the narrator! An angry mob is calling on beating someone to death and this jackass is more concerned about having to walk home! Then shares these sentiments with the world! I watched that bus 44 film last week so I’m still a bit sensitive to how selfish people can be.

  • Samael

    angry muslims, what a surprise

  • David

    The vendors are not looking for handouts from the government; they are not mugging people, picking pockets, or robbing gas stations and 7/11s, and in some areas they have a lot of customers who like them and depend on them. — Maybe someday some of them can save enough money to buy a Macdonald’s Franchise, and then they will be looking to the chengguan for help in stamping out the competition from the cheap little vendors.

  • Joe Mazenski

    In-group, out-group. People may hate the chengguan, but at least the chengguan are Han. This is this first thread I’ve seen where most posters have sided with the chengguan, and it’s definitely because the street vendors here were Hui.

    And Kai, you’re wrong. It sucks to be a minority in China. There’s no such thing as ‘innocent racism’. What crap. You’re just regurgitating some of the most common narratives here: “Chinese people are just not used to foreigners, so it’s not racism, it’s just lack of understanding.” Then, in the very same breath, “China was exploited and humiliated by foreigners, so our hatred of foreigners is justified.”

    I should pick up a copy of People’s Daily instead of reading your posts. Same thing.

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      The only response appropriate for someone who puts words in other people’s mouths is: You’re an idiot.

      In your effort to argue/explain why I’m wrong, you imply that I think being a minority DOESN’T suck in China, or that there is “innocent racism” and that I’m remotely excusing Chinese racism against foreigners.

      I never said anything of the sort.

      The closest thing you could criticize is my belief that I do think there’s a difference between ignorance and hatred, both of which can result in racism. Some people are racists because they don’t know any better. Others are racists because they hate. To the victim, it is hurtful either way. But to understand and combat that racism, it is wise to differentiate the causes. You don’t fight ignorant racism in quite the same way as you fight hateful racism.

      I’m always amused by the lows some of you people go in expressing your dislike of me or what you (mistakenly) think I represent/stand for/defend. Is it that hard to make an accurate assessment of what I’ve said, and then make a reasonable, rational, and (again) accurate argument against that? Must you really resort to straw man arguments?

      • Joe Mazenski

        Why would you diminish the discrimination against the Hui by arguing that Han attitudes toward them are not not racist? They most certainly are. Han Chinese don’t discrminate against them on the basis of their religion. All the Han see is an ethnic group that is different from them and invent ridiculous stereotypes.

        As you said yourself: “… Xinjiang Uyghurs, widely feared as petty thieves who are legally allowed to carry knives around that the police must handle with kiddie gloves. They’re also the ones who slash themselves and claim they have HIV when they get caught trying to pickpocket someone so no one dares to approach them. Keep in mind that it isn’t just the Han who are weary of them.”

        I wonder how you feel about African Americans.

        • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

          Joe Mazenski,

          Why would you diminish the discrimination against the Hui by arguing that Han attitudes toward them are not not racist?

          I’m diminishing racist attitudes when and where they are racist. I’m looking into what lies behind those racist attitudes. Please go back and re-read.

          Han Chinese don’t discrminate against them on the basis of their religion.

          Now you’re just talking out of your ass. Many Han Chinese DO discriminate against Muslims on the basis of their religion/belief.

          All the Han see is an ethnic group that is different from them and invent ridiculous stereotypes.

          This is an ignorant and ridiculous statement that leads me to suspect you care more about pinning “racism” on Han Chinese than actually trying to understand that racism and fight it. The Han have as many reasons for their stereotypes against other ethnic minorities as foreigners have for their stereotypes of the Chinese. As I said before:

          Overall, I find the vast majority of stereotypes to be quite understandable, just not always reasonable, and almost never rationally defensible.

          Please read before you throw out bullshit arguments against me.

          As you said yourself: …

          Stop skimming. Read in context and follow the discussion. Either that or stop trying to quote me out of context. This is what I wrote before that:

          Many Chinese (Han) people also resent the Hui and other ethnic minorities because (as Joe above noted) these ethnic minorities enjoy certain well-known benefits and preferential treatment.

          (For those who aren’t familiar, here’s an example: The minority that is most popularly resented and stigmatized would be the Xinjiang Uyghurs…

          Here is what I wrote afterwards:

          Oh, no, absolutely not. I wasn’t trying to justify racism at all. I was offering an example for those reading who might not be familiar with some of the ethnic stereotypes in China.

          Are you reading too fast or are you intentionally playing stupid?

          I wonder how you feel about African Americans.

          You’re playing stupid. Please go back and read the entire conversation and the entirety of my comments before coming back and trying to make another idiotic accusation against me.

          • Joe Mazenski

            Alright, Kai, then I ask you: how do you personally feel about the Hui? You seem to be going to great lengths to justify Han attitudes towards them.

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            I have nothing against the Hui whatsoever.

            You seem to be going to great lengths to justify Han attitudes towards them.

            What “great lengths” are you referring to? How are you misconstruing anything I’m saying as “justifying” Han attitudes towards them? Please cite me, instead of making ridiculous unsubstantiated accusations.

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  • Jay

    I can understand the peddlers anger but their cruelty toward one chenguan is also ugly. Can’t the Chengguan enforce the law without acting like brutes? Can’t the peddlers resist without lowering themselves to equal brutality? Sometimes the brutality of conflicts in China just shock me. It’s also disgusting that the Chengguan and police abandoned their comrade and didn’t try to rescue him. This says something about their cowardice and lack of honor.

  • miloservic

    this is just a conflict, the more important thing is the racism comments. that’s the really potential problem.

  • Joe Mazenski

    It’s an actual problem, not just a potential problem. No matter how hard people try to ignore or explain it away by creating false dicotomies within racism or other excuses for the oppressors. Ignorance versus hate. Benign racism versus harmful racism. Innocent discrimination versus intentional discrimination. No such discrete categories actually exist within racism. Racism is a very fluid dynamic.

    Ignorance moves to hatred very quickly. Just ask the Jews in Europe. Oh wait, by Kai’s definition, Judaism is a religion, so the Holocaust had nothing to do with racism.

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      “False dichotomies” is a fallacy that involves one forcing others to choose between two possibilities when there are more than two possibilities. Please do not use words you do not understand. I didn’t say there were ONLY two possibilities for racism (ignorance OR hatred), I said those are two very real possibilities. Moreover, they were not offered as excuses for racists or oppressors. They were offered to help people better understand root causes for racism.

      Ignorance moves to hatred very quickly. Just ask the Jews in Europe. Oh wait, by Kai’s definition, Judaism is a religion, so the Holocaust had nothing to do with racism.

      You idiot. Judaism IS a religion, whereas being Jewish or a Jew can be both religious OR racial. The Holocaust was indeed racism, because the target of persecution were Jews, not Judaism. Jews are a people, not just believers of a specific religion. Muslims, however, is strictly a term referring to believers of a specific religion, unlike Jews, which is applicable to both religious identity and racial identity.

      • Joe Mazenski

        You fucking asshole. How dare you lecture me about my own people and my own faith. I was making a point, and your ignorance of Judaism and the Jewish people is obvious and offensive. YOU ARE AN IGNORANT, RACIST ASSHOLE.

        • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

          Joe, yes, you were trying to make a point, but your point was both unwarranted and inherently incorrect. You were the one who brought in the Jews, trying to draw a parallel to accuse me of saying something I did not say. If you really are Jewish, your ignorance of the difference between being a believer of Judaism and being Jewish is obvious and embarrassing. You have yet to argue for why I am ignorant or racist. You just keep accusing me of it, never once offering any citation/quotation of what I’ve said that is racist or ignorant, much less how I am being racist or ignorant towards Jews, blacks, Hui, or whatever.

          • Joe Mazenski

            Kai, the only person who doesn’t realize you are racist is you.

            You know nothing about the relationship between being Jewish and believing in Judaism. I noticed that, above, you actually gave me a link to the Wikipedia entry for Judaism. Wikipedia. You little boy. The world must seem so simple in your eyes.

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            The “its wikipedia” retort is meaningless without you offering something to show how inadequate it is for the purposes of this discussion. If you want to insist that there is no difference between Judaism and Jewish, please offer some sources to back it up. I state that religion and race are often two different things. You seem to insist they are one and the same. If that were true, then you’d have to argue that all Muslims are of one race. Such an insistence is laughable. You further insist that Judaism is always interachangable with Jewish. I give you a source that proves you wrong. You? Nothing, except your insistence. You still haven’t shown anything about me to be racist except your say so, whereas I’ve repeatedly shown you exactly where your reasoning is faulty and wrong.

          • Joe Mazenski

            Your insistence that there is no connection between race and religion is terribly naive.

            You’ve clearly led a sheltered life.

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            Sigh, I’m just going to start quoting myself in response to your continued stupidity:

            Judaism IS a religion, whereas being Jewish or a Jew can be both religious OR racial. The Holocaust was indeed racism, because the target of persecution were Jews, not Judaism. Jews are a people, not just believers of a specific religion. Muslims, however, is strictly a term referring to believers of a specific religion, unlike Jews, which is applicable to both religious identity and racial identity.

            I state that religion and race are often two different things. You seem to insist they are one and the same. If that were true, then you’d have to argue that all Muslims are of one race.

            No where have I insisted or even suggested that there is absolutely no connection between religion and race. I have, however, been very correct in pointing out that they are different things. I have, repeatedly, said that Jewish can certainly refer to both religion and race, but that is not true for other religious descriptors such as “Muslim” or “Christian” or “Buddhist”, all religions with believers from a wide mix of races. A person who hates Christians is not necessarily racist, unless, of course, he specifically hates “WHITE” Christians, etc. A person who hates a black person may not necessarily hate that black person’s religion. For example, there are plenty of white supremists and blacks who share the same Christian faith. So, again:

            please offer some sources to back it up.

          • Joe Mazenski

            You miss the point Kai. You’re making rational distinctions. Racism is not a rational phenonomenon. It doesn’t matter what you think. Racists do not care to distinguish religion from race. All they see is someone different from themselves. They will use whatever difference they can point out in order to split off and alienate that group from themselves. In their minds, that alien religion is bundled up with that alien group. Even when two groups share the same root faith, differences in religious practice can be exaggerated and polarized. Religious differences can be invented out of whole cloth, if necessary. You ask any white American Southerner fifty years ago, and he would vehemently deny that blacks practiced the same religion as he.

            Your attempts to ‘understand’ or ‘explain’ racist perspectives only serve to legitimize racist efforts. It empowers them. There’s no understanding the rational basis of racism, because no such thing exist. There is no ‘innocent racism’ out there, and your attempts to establish and defend such a perspective are, wittingly or not, racist activities in themselves.

        • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

          Joe,

          You miss the point Kai.

          Do you mind quoting your earlier comments and highlighting for me this point you say I missed? Or perhaps you’ll be kind enough to acknowledge you haven’t made much of a point as you’ve gone out to falsely accuse me of being racist over and over again?

          You’re making rational distinctions.

          Thanks, that’s a compliment.

          Racism is not a rational phenonomenon.

          Did I ever say it was? No, I think I said:

          …and almost never rationally defensible.

          Didn’t I ask you to please re-read what I wrote before you go on the attack?

          It doesn’t matter what you think.

          Sure it does.

          Racists do not care to distinguish religion from race.

          Of course they do. I already gave you several examples.

          All they see is someone different from themselves.

          Racism is not defined by mere difference. It is a specific category of difference, notably skin color and physical features. Religion is internal beliefs. Prejudice against a race is different from prejudice against a belief, just as Americans were friends with South Korea and South Vietnam against their communist counterparts. Same race, different beliefs.

          They will use whatever difference they can point out in order to split off and alienate that group from themselves.

          Sure, but this tendency to find any difference to justify their prejudice is not something I have ever disagreed with. I disagree with your confusion of race and religion.

          In their minds, that alien religion is bundled up with that alien group.

          You’re not proving this.

          Even when two groups share the same root faith, differences in religious practice can be exaggerated and polarized.

          Sure, but it still doesn’t make racism and prejudice against religion one and the same, as you previously and continuously insist.

          Religious differences can be invented out of whole cloth, if necessary. You ask any white American Southerner fifty years ago, and he would vehemently deny that blacks practiced the same religion as he.

          Sure, I can agree with that, but it still doesn’t make religion and race one and the same. You’re reaching.

          Your attempts to ‘understand’ or ‘explain’ racist perspectives only serve to legitimize racist efforts.

          Is that so? So every student, professor, and educational institution that studies the reasons the Nazi profferred for hating the Jews is legitimizing racist efforts? I think you’re full of shit here.

          It empowers them. There’s no understanding the rational basis of racism, because no such thing exist.

          There are reasons for racism. I never said there are rational reasons or defenses for them. Again, your idiocy lies in your failure to read and you insistence upon misrepresenting others. You’re an asshole.

          There is no ‘innocent racism’ out there, and your attempts to establish and defend such a perspective are, wittingly or not, racist activities in themselves.

          I said there is racism borne out of ignorance, not innocence. You’re twisting my words. Until you can make a good argument for ignorance not being one of many causes for racism, you’re engaging in the same false dichotomies you previously and wrongly accused me of.

  • miloservic

    agree!
    what i mean “potential” is that this kind of things have not gone so far that cause massive conflict between different races.

    Kai’s comment proved that he is a shithead. he needs study more on this

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      miloservic, what comment of mine are you referring to that proves me being a “shithead?” What do you feel I need to study more on? That “Muslim” isn’t a race?

  • miloservic

    you do not have to question me like that .
    please realize this: religion, sometimes or always be the excuse for racism.
    racism can hide deeply behind the ‘ignorance’ of religion.

    do not confuse yourself

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      miloservic, I fully understand that differences in religion can contribute to racism. Where have I implied that I do not understand or agree with this? I am questioning you “like that” because you’re accusing me of a position that I do not hold nor is represented by what I have written. As such, it is you who should not confuse yourself. Please go back and re-read what I have written. I believe you have seriously misunderstood much of it. You should always ask yourself if you’ve misunderstood someone else when that person doesn’t disagree with the arguments you try using against him. If you want to accuse me of something, you should also be able to quote the exact words I said that led to your disagreement. You need evidence. You cannot just go around defaming other people of being racist without anything to support your accusation of such.

  • Joe Mazenski

    Miloservic is right. And his name points to the perfect example. In former Yugoslavia, the Serbs butchered Muslims. By Kai’s reasoning, this had nothing to do with race or ethnicity.

    Also by Kai’s reasoning, the most important thing to do in the Yugoslav conflict should have been to understand the perspective of the Serbs and make sure everyone knew how ‘understandable’ it was.

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      How does my reasoning suggest that the butchering of Muslims by Serbs in Yugoslavia have nothing to do with race or ethnicity?

      Suggesting that it is important to understand the root causes for racism is not the same as saying that racism is justified. There’s a qualitative difference between something that is “understandable” and something that is “justifiable”. I’m not using “understandable” in the connotation that it is “acceptable.” I’m using it in the most basic denotation that you can “understand” the reasoning behind such attitudes, which means you can identify how such attitudes develop out of ignorance, hatred, etc. Being able to understand something does not necessitate accepting it, justifying it, or even defending it. It just means you’re not an idiot.

      • Joe Mazenski

        You seriously don’t understand what gives rise to racism?

        • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

          It appears I understand it better than you do and, more importantly, actually think understanding what gives rise to racism is important. You, on the other hand, attack efforts to understand racism.

          Joe Mazenski said:

          attempts to ‘understand’ or ‘explain’ racist perspectives only serve to legitimize racist efforts.

          In fact, you equated trying to understand what gives rise to racism as “racist activities” (to be accurate, by way of misrepresenting “understading what gives rise to racism” as “defending racism” and thus “racist activities”…which, isn’t logical.).

          • Joe Mazenski

            No, I said in your case, this is what you are doing. You’ve split off religion from racism in order to justify Han attitudes and action against the Hui. You find it very hard to admit that any Han people can be guilty of racism.

          • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

            Really? I think that? After I said this?

            First of all, I think mainland Chinese people can be some of the most racist bastards on the planet

            Like I said, you need to read instead of blindly whacking at that straw man you’ve so laborously built. I have never justified Han attitudes and action against the Hui and despite me asking you repeatedly, you’ve yet to quote me doing anything of the sort.

  • miloservic

    ha, my id always cause misunderstandings, however it was just from a soccer player

  • sumdumguy

    I’m happy for the people that were involved in this.

  • Mike Fish

    How do we know these people are Hui? Just because of a few skull caps? When the original poster made this claim, how’d he know, he ask them? Could he tell by their accent? Hui look just like Han. The only difference is they follow Islam, kinda sorta, some do some don’t but they say they do cause they’re Hui. In Lanzhou, Hui don’t speak differently than Han, or dress diferently, unless they are more observant Muslims, so unless they are wearing a skull cap or veil/scarf, one would have NO way to know if a person is Hui unless you asked them. According to the Lanzhou government official website statistics for 2008, there are 100,000 Hui people in Lanzhou out of more than 1,200,000. That’s less than 10%. These photo were obviously not taken in the alleys of some little Hui enclave, but on a major thoroughfare. This isn’t some conservative Muslim ghetto next to a mosque or something, there is a sex shop in the background. So, assuming this is a regular old road, in regular old Lanzhou, likely the only people in those photos who are Hui, or another Islam believing minority, are the ones with the skull caps or veils. That means 80 to 90% of the people giving that chengguan a beatdown are likely Han.

    To the ignorant posters, Chinese or foreign, who think this has anything to do with being Hui or Muslim, you don’t know shit. I guarantee!

  • Joe Mazenski

    Kinda like how you often can’t tell if someone is a Jew or a regular white person. Must be frustrating for you guys. And some Jews are more observant of Judaism than others, but they all say they are cause they’re Jews. What frauds, huh? They really should wear their yarmulkes all the time so you can tell who they are.

    Despite all the shit in your post, it somehow made me think of an interesting question: who first made reference to the Hui? It wasn’t the OP on Tianya. He didn’t mention the Hui in either his title or his post. The first mention of the Hui came from one of the posters on Tianya.

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  • Kerui

    I find it very amusing that so many non-Chinese here feel that they understand China better than the Chinese. But Mike Fish, I will tell you that in a fight in China I’ve never seen a Han Chinese stick up for a Hui Chinese in a fight with Chengguan/Bao’an … and I’ve seen many a fight over the last 20 years here.

  • VeerLeft

    Kerui… Not better, but differently. And due to the Chinese proccupation with FACE, we are likely having a fake argument half the time…because in actuality they know what we are saying is reality, as witnessed by the Chinese posters in most threads. They are being honest because they don’t think we are watching…

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      Come on, VeerLeft, to be fair, there’s an element of defensiveness due to face but there’s also often (but not always) an element of being defensive because the criticizer is intentionally or unintentionally being condescending or offensive. In my experience, there’s usually a way of having very productive honest discussions with Chinese people on real Chinese problems, just as I usually see foreigners not taking that route.

      I think both sides need to meet halfway on this, as doing so would benefit both. Many Chinese need to stop being so sensitive/defensive/stubborn/etc. and many foreigners need to stop being so condescending/hypocritical/arrogant/etc. Insisting on one or the other just brings us back to the same problem.

      I think “foreigners understand China differently” is a fantastic line. Unfortunately, few people, both Chinese and foreign, actually truly understand what this holds.

  • Omer

    Every one has the right to earn. People did right to that Chuangan captain . But they should have followed the main group and should have beaten to death that entire CHuangan group and bastard police. Justice prevails.

  • joopig

    I agree with what Kai said. And to that jew person, Joe Mazenski. As a jew yourself, how could you point your fingers at someone else while, your very own kind are doing way worse to the Palestinians ?

    • http://www.cnreviews.com Kai

      Hey, I appreciate you agreeing with me, but I want to be very clear that I storngly disagree with the name you’re using. I have a lot of good Jewish friends and I happen to think the eternal Israel-Palestine conflict is very complicated, and I empathize with both sides of that conflict. More importantly, it isn’t the issue at hand between Joe and I. Whether or not Joe’s “own kind” are racist is separate from whether or not I am racist. Of course, I fail to see how I have said or done anything remotely racist here and his whiny insistence isn’t very persuasive. It’d be interesting to see him make a real case substantiated with my quotes, but after several requests, he seems content to just accuse and not back up his accusations. That’s too bad and he’s being a jerk. Even so, I don’t think racially deogatory names like “joopig” are necessary for you to get your point across. There are good and bad people of any race, religion, ideology, etc. The best way to deal with people like Joe is to just stand firmly on solid ground. Call him an idiot or asshole or jerk, but leave race out of it. Race isn’t the source of his idiotic behavior, idiocy is.

  • Samael

    fifty hitler post time?

  • Sonia

    Sigh…all this discord…and on so many levels. I wish that one day I will wake up and the world will be alright, but alas, that’s not going to happen. I can’t claim to be a Chinese citizen, but it is my cultural and ancestral homeland. Thus, it pains me even more deeply to see social unrest and unhappiness. Issues highlighted in this article:

    1. Racism…or religionism, call it what you want. Unfortunately, ignorance has bred hatred on all sides of the racial/ethnic/cultural/socio-economic spectrum, and I wish it would just stop. I’m tired of having to justify to fellow Chinese-Americans, Asian-Americans, Caucasian-Americans, African-Americans, etc, and people of the world, that regardless of how I stand on particular political issues, and no matter how sensitive those issues are, I just cannot tolerate all these finger-pointing, hair-pointing, mother-bashing, culture-vandalizing tactics.

    2. The above extends to beyond the obvious ethno-cultural divide. I think it’s too easy for people to point at other people and say “you have more money than me, therefore you’re greedy and I hate you”, or “you have more power than me, therefore you’re evil and I hate you”. Unfortunately, the poor and disadvantaged has a history of being bullied by the police and other types of law-enforcement. I can understand their resentment of the law and of people of the law, and that has unfortunately manifested in behaviors of rage and wrath and violence. And I fear that the reciprocation of that is not going to be pretty either, and I would certainly sympathize with, even while condemning, just as much, the actions that I fear the Chengguans would take.

    …and what can I do but sit here thousands of miles away, being a pretentious and emo fart writing useless comments, apologizing for other pretentious farts writing other useless and abusive comments?

    …sigh sigh sigh.

  • xueyuanT

    lol, Tianya is full of idiots

    Hui is a religion, people who believe in Islam are still Han Chinese

    Hui people are completely docile compared to other muslims around the world, I’d even say they have better morals than the average Chinese

    Ditch the 13 year old morons on tianya

  • The Hui People is actually a well united social group that they usually resolve things in a violence like other peoples believing Muslim. I grow up in Lanzhou and witness such events several times. I have friends who are Hui people while they have good manners. But some Hui students gathered even in primary school, trying to being a “leader”, robbing pocket money of others. They ruin the harmony by crimes, in groups. The government should use power to eliminate this situation.

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  • song

    Did the report had mentioned the national tribe of the cheng`guan? I just scanned through the article.

  • slenth

    Treat other how you wish to be treated. Sounds like Chengguan was reaping what he had planted.

  • Dr SUN

    Tough cookies the minorities, the Han will do well to remember that.

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