Kittens Found Abused, Dead, Left In Front Of Their Mother

WARNING: Photos below may be graphic.

From KDS:

Kittens abused/mutilated to death, bodies laid before the mother

On the 11th within a Kunming Panlong District neighborhood, the four kittens of an adopted stray cat were abused to death. According to the family that adopted the stray cat, on the morning of the 11th when they heard the cat’s tragic cries, they rushed downstairs to discover this stray cat’s four kittens abused to death, and even placed in front of the mother cat. The kittens’ bodies were covered with bullet holes, with blood all over. One of the kittens had its neck tied with a rope and elongated, its chest cut open, heart exposed, while the other three kittens’ heads were stepped on. According to this journalist’s observation, the bullet holes on the kitten’s bodies were caused by a metal toy gun. It is reckoned that during the night of the 10th, someone used a toy gun to beat the kitten black and blue, so that it was unable to escape, before continuing to abuse/mutilate it to death, and intentionally put them beside the mother cat.

abused-kittens-mother-cat-kunming-china-02

The KDS post did not include the year and month: 2006 April.

These NetEase & Xinhua news articles includes some more information:

The poor mother cat kept licking the kittens, hoping it would revive the kittens. Crying, the women who adopted the cat were unable to speak, hoping that the cat abuser can be found.

abused-kittens-mother-cat-kunming-china-01

abused-kittens-mother-cat-kunming-china-03

chinese-woman-crying

stray-cat-with-kittens

Comments from KDS:

次苏盖赤佬:

**, YP are truly perverse!

There will be retribution!

有卵泡么驴:

屁屁黑pipihei:

Deviant, [whoever did this] definitely are not psychologically normal, and putting them in front of the mother cat! Are they still human? ***!!!

古老肉:

Fuck! MB…may the abuser’s entire family die…

pal:

This kind of person will be reborn for his next life in North Korea’s countryside.

阿:

How were these photographs taken? Could they have been taken by the cat abuser? Photographing this scene is very difficult.

雷氏菊花露:

There will be retribution in this life, the kittens’ souls will haunt them!

6in1:

****!!! How can there be someone like this!!! Eating pigs, cows, even dogs is one thing, but how could one intentionally destroy life!!!

爱拼才会赢:

Those who do not have love for little animals will likewise not have love for humans. This kind of person will grow up to become a murderer.

猪肉浦好切:

YP thinking is indeed perverted and frightening~

飞呀泡泡:

I logged in especially to curse this beast~ deserves a bad death~

寂寞捕手:

I cannot bear to see this kind of news.
I regret coming in.

firefox_3:

I reckon it was because the cat disturbed the peace, so the nearby residents bear the most suspicion.

今晚我做饭:

Is this something a person can do??? Picking on a life that is many times weaker and smaller is very satisfying? Truly CN NB inhuman! In America this kind of person would go to prison!

chinese-women-crying

  • HR

    Wow that is pretty horrific. And I have to agree with the guy who said that in America the person who did this would go to prison. Rightly so IMHO

    • Jen S

      That’s not true. People unfortunately get away with this all the time in the u.s. In my town, someone stole, skinned and threw a dog back in it’s owners yard. They found the person, he confessed to it and still nothing was done more so than 2 weeks in jail. People are not sent to prison often for killing animals. It is my further deduction that alot of asian people are fucked up. Shitting and pissing and puking on each other for porn and now crushing animals. Jesus, what the fuck is wrong with people. I feel anyone who kills and animal for any reason like this, torture , and things of that nature. then they should just be taken out and shot. or tortured until they beg to die, let them beg somemore and then shoot the fuckers in their eye.

      • Vivian

        I totally agree!

        • kittens w/ wings

          poor babies! my granny had two cats with kittens but someone porposly ran over my favorite, the one with seven kittens! two are still looking for a home, cant survive on the farm ’cause i bottle fed them.

          • kittens w/ wings

            box is getten smaller…

      • kate

        idk if you ever heard of two girls and a cup? that is american. you can’t really just make that generalization about asians really, only the japanese has bukakke and good stuff like that. actually i have never came across asian made porn except for japanese porn

        I do agree however people commiting atrocities against innocent animals should be punished

        • Biff

          Actually Two girls one cup is Brazilian. That said, there are plenty of sick weirdos in this country as well. Like all the ones who have watched this video on purpose or tricked others into seeing.

  • beachgoer

    whoever did this deserves a horrific death and rot in hell.

  • 888Ch

    why dont they give cats justice??

    maybe china is following the trend of america

  • Zhangsan

    Torturing and murdering little animals is one of the classic signs of being a sociopathic murderer. I hope they catch the bastard and lock him/her up before they do something like that to a human.

    • Dr SUN

      Agreed, its the sign of a seriously mentally ill person, who may go to this humans.

  • Y

    where’s the power of Chinese netizen detectives?? find who the killers are and employ some heiguis to r*pe their asses.

  • jmoney

    isn’t this where serial killers start?

  • whatever

    That’s fucking sucks. WTF?

    • kittens w/ wings

      they need therapy and a nice cold jail cell

  • spider

    i m speechless,only god knows,the person deserves slow poisoning

  • yellow master race

    are there not many rivers and sacks around?

    to bad for Karma..

  • Lu

    I’m getting tearful as well as I am a cat own myself! Even though the mother cat isn’t human I can see the crying. Those demons who’ve commit such acts are no better than the Japanese Imperial army in WW2!

    • Chinocabron

      at Lu
      yeah! and you should have added not better than the red guards in the cultural revolution.

  • lolo

    “Chinese college students do have many mental problems in the face of an increasingly competitive society,” she told China Daily yesterday.”

    Lu Shizhen, president of the youth development academy at the China Youth University of Political Sciences

    “According to the website for the Beijing municipal health bureau, the number of Chinese students with serious psychological problems has seen a rapid growth in recent years, with conditions including obsessive compulsive disorder, clinical depression, anxiety and hostility.”

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-05/25/content_7937615.htm

    • martin

      having ocd in china, that really sucks….

  • The Grudge

    Booooo! Boooo! Sobs! Sobs!

    Inhumane Cat Killer! Boooooo!

    How can a Chinese person do something so vile? He’s not human! He deserves to die! Doesn’t he care about cats and their feelings?

    Oh wait…

    http://www.grrafix.com/i-photo-story-3.html

    • gth793y

      I do admit Meat is Murder.
      However, killing for food is far from killing and torturing for pleasure.

      The nature of the first is to eat, perhaps even taking pleasure in it. But the pleasure is not derived from the suffering of other beings.

      The nature of the latter one is sadistic.

      Judging from the article, the cat were given a slash across the throat, a coup de grâce. Its the best they could given those conditions.

      • The Grudge

        How about skinning them while they are still alive like mentioned in the article I’ve linked to?

        Does that count?

        As long as Chinese people don’t give a flying fuck about cats, they can kill them for pleasure or for food, not much difference in my opinion. Animals are just toys in their eyes.

        How about the bus trips in Northen China in Harbin, where they feed live live stock to the tigers? Is a Chicken less valuable than a cat? The behavior is the same, having fun with “animals”, the crowds is happy, the crowd giggle, the herd is a bunch of backwards fucktards.

        I really wonder who are the animals there…

        Fucking brainless lemmings.

        http://www.travelchinatour.com/jim-china-travel-blog/travelogue-by-cities/harbin-siberian-tiger-park.html

        • Rick in China

          I’ve watched animals play with, kill, and consume other animals on the Serengeti – is it sadistic? I wouldn’t say I “enjoyed” it as much as reveled in the raw power and ferocity found in nature. I think the ‘concept’ behind feeding siberian tigers at the tiger park is to watch their power in doing what they naturally do – kill and consume other animals. Those tigers are pretty fat, anyways, not exactly the same breed as wild tigers. Plus, they kill easy pray, it’s not nearly as awe inspiring as I’m sure watching one hunt in wild would be.

          There’s a HUGE difference between watching nature (or even *staging* natural events) for the experience of an observer, than fucking murdering and torturing helpless kittens, and going so far as to leave them infront of their mother to let her experience a different kind of pain. I can’t believe you have such ill logic and jaded morality to even begin this kind of argument.

        • DWR

          That’s a very sad photo-essay on grrafix.com. Thanks for the link, although it’s very graphic for anyone with delicate sensibilities.

          DWR

      • The Grudge

        Almost forgot, it’s even funnier with a cow!

        Giggles giggles! Take a pic uncle Chong (V sign and puffy cheeks in front of the bloody carcass)!

        http://www.china.org.cn/english/travel/241460.htm

      • The Grudge

        Lee Chak Lam, of Hong Kong, and his travel-mates Lau Chi Shan and Poon Pin Shan, of Shanghai, pooled their money with three strangers they met at the park to purchase a sheep.

        “It was killed in a second,” says a wide-eyed Lee. He believes it was money well spent.

        Sounds like great fun to me.

        Now shut the fuck up about a bunch of fucking dead kittens, and clean your fucking house. It’s fucking dirty and it stinks!

        • gth793y

          I’m not defending killing for the joy of killing, I think its atrocious as well.

          But sadistic behavior such as these is not an indigenous chinese concept. I believe Michael Vick is still in jail. So I don’t see why pointing the finger at 1.3 billion people all together is justified.

      • oh oh no

        When you dehumanize people, generalizing inhuman behaviour, you show that really, you’re just a screeching lunatic ;)

  • http://tangzheli1020.blog.163.com tangguli

    I curse you family.

  • Overseas Chinese

    I don’t know if it is a Chinese gene to abuse cats. We have these psychotic serial cat killers in Singapore too and they were all Chinese. Recently a kitten had its body cut off, leaving behind its limps and head. In another case, the psychopath cut open a pregnant cat’s stomach and took the foetus.

    Culling of cats is state sanctioned. An old psycho personally sent 300 cats to their deaths and was interviewed by the newspapers.

    And get this! It is against the law to keep cats in your home in Singapore.

    • The Grudge

      I guess if they find out that you have a cat in your house in Singapore, they will cane you on the balls until death ensues right?

      Death penalty maybe? A cat in a house, what a serious offense.

      Get a fucking life and welcome to 2009, fucktards of this world.

    • Samsung

      Well think of it this way, cats are much easier to abuse than dogs. Sickos like this whom abused little critters at night when no one notice probably doesn’t have much guts to take any risk anyways. So they find the easier target,killing little kittens to satisfy their weak hollow shell.

    • Anon

      While i agree there are serial cat killers in singapore but i also seen alot kind souls who feeds stray cats too.

      Culling of cats? state sanctioned?

      The only culling i seen is birds like crows and very very very rarely stray dogs. Strays cats are more likely to be sterilised (those with a hole mark on one of their ears) which is done by the SPCA.

      Ya and get this! Its against the law to keep cats in HDB flats (no1 would bother to enforce this here)but its permitted to keep in landed/ private properties.

      • Overseas Chinese

        It’s pretty obvious you don’t know what’s going on in your own country.

        • Anon

          Nope i live in a different singapore from you.

          U just write statements with no hint of any in-depth informantion about the country.

          Sorry but you do give me the impression u r the typical singaporean ‘fenqing’ (difference from the chinese is that they are blindly anti-singapore).

          It’s pretty obvious you dont WANT to know wats going on in your own country

          • Overseas Chinese

            “he has been trapping stray cats since the 1990s, using his own cages and those provided by the Agri-Food and Veterinary Authority (AVA).

            He then hands the cats over to AVA to be put down.

            ‘I stopped counting after I trapped around 300 cats,’ said Mr Tan,”

            http://www.tnp.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,192753,00.html

            Moron, which part of the above article do you not understand?

          • Overseas Chinese

            You said:

            “The only culling i seen is birds like crows and very very very rarely stray dogs. Strays cats are more likely to be sterilised (those with a hole mark on one of their ears) which is done by the SPCA.”

            My reply:

            “Some 5,000 dogs were put down last year via lethal injections delivered by the AVA and SPCA. Cats culled double the number of dogs.”

            Source: Sundays Times. http://www.catwelfare.org/drupal/node/968

            I guess 5,000 dogs and 10,000 cats being put down is “very very very rarely” to you.

          • Overseas Chinese

            “The AVA stopped its cat sterilisation programme in 2003 after five years as it was still getting 5,000 complaints a year about strays.”

            Source: Sundays Times. http://www.catwelfare.org/drupal/node/968

            You are certainly living in a different Singapore from me. You are 6 years behind time, LOL.

          • Overseas Chinese

            How? Want to be spoon fed more proof, and more “in-depth” analysis like why the HDB ban on cats even though rarely enforced is preventing cats from getting a home?

            Or want to be typical Singaporean, die die can’t admit it when proven wrong because of “face”, and have to resort to fist fights?

          • Anon

            Oh yes, Mr Tan help to cull cats, he is wacko physco cat killer. He cuts their throats and then.. wait he send them to be put down in a humane method? No no this is SG, the govt culls animals by hang them on hooks and cut off their head wit a hunting knife.

            Culling is state approved here in this evil, tight ass country and…wat? other countries govt also cull their local animals population? Wait, its differnt here,the state loves culling animals, 5k dogs and 10k cats a year and .. No no we dont import them, our country may be small but we will never run out strays. But there are some kind morons who feed and sterilising stray cats with their money.

            No problem, we stop our sterilise program so people thinks we dont sterilise anymore. In fact, the local population contributes most of the strays by abandoning their pets, lol they pay for the animals and we get to kill them. Also we have ban people from owning cats in their home! Everyday we sent 5000 officals out to search for them.

            Yours truly,
            Singapore AVA Henchman

            Dear overseas chinese,
            U are so right, only singaporeans need to be spoon feed.
            When u post statements in foreign forums where probably no1 knows much or lived in SG they knows wat are u trying to put across. I am such a ‘frog in the well’.

            Sorry for making u lose face and getting into a fistfight at a war of words in a forum. In fact, i just recieved a laywer letter. I got into a barfight where i actually punch some wimpy fellow singaporean with my real fist on his face. ‘Sob’ he sueing me for manslaughter and insulting his 18 generation of ancestors. Wat can i say? Singapore Boleh!

            Btw a friendly reminder, Jet Li + very rich folks + govt officals have been spotted play live GTA on the street of singapore. Be careful when u walk on the roads. 30 roadkills = 1month jailtime, tat is ‘peanuts’ to them. Their GTA game will reset 1month later.

          • Overseas Chinese

            What gibberish are you writing? Stick to the topic. LOL.

  • whatever

    FUCK THAT”S FUCKED> (@ GRUDGE LINK).

    HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU DO THAT???

    That’s just nasty. Although…that is pretty much what happens when it comes to eating meat.

    We are all *Satan’s children. Believe it.

    *Satan: Multi-dimensional infinite being in control of our reality. No joke.

  • whatever

    SATAN’s SIGNS ARE EVERYWHERE> I NO JOKING.

    SATAN IS REAL.

    SWEET SWEET LUCIFER!

    • Jennifer Paisly

      scary… AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (deep Breath) AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • satan destroyer

      yeah!fucks satan!fuck you!i curse you and all of entire of your family be a victim of a murder and you will be watched by all of people in the world in world news!you will sunk in a darkness hell!got it!no tolerance and no kindness for you!

  • too yellow

    did the Columbine shooter used to do this in their youth? God, I hope there won’t be school shooting 10 years down the road…

    • Relative Truth

      There would be shootings in schools right now but they don’t have any guns…

      Never understood that to the tell the truth… if they just let people in china buy guns there would not be any overpopulation problem anymore…

  • dudemeisdtwr

    welcome to china.
    nothing new to see here.

  • Miako Tamatsue

    This is the most cruelty action to animals. It makes me question if we humans are any different in terms of values from animals. This behavior is everywhere, not only in China.

    My condolensces go the owner of the cat. I hope that she still has faith in people knowing that there are many people out there who thinks this type of action is criminal.

  • cmfeirs

    I hate to agree wholeheartedly with Grudge, but as a foreigner wo has lived all ove the world (the past 2 in China), I must admit that on the whole there is a definite disconnect between most Chinese people and animals in general. If I had to guess it is primarily a result of a social structure where the genral population feels powerless, pwerless to choose their jobs, their universities, even their spouses. When I asked a group of university students if they would marry someone they loved even if their parents did not want them to, 90% said they would not marry the person they love. As a professor of sociology and psychology, the general lack of concern for animals and the subsequent cruelty to animals is primarily the result of the need to feel that some aspect of one’s life has control. Since they cannot control the government, or teachers, or parents, the only remaining avenue to display their power and ability to control is by torturing the weak – the lowly animals that cannot defend themselves. You need to look at your society and the cause of this type of behavior as the rate is increasing.

    • Yin

      Uh… I like the Freud stuff too but aren’t we getting a little too creative, here? You ever been in a slaughter house? Ever fished? Hunted? I fully condemn the actions of the cat murderer, but when it comes to what happens at Chinese meat markets, I’m more akin to believe that the outrage here is the product of the sheltered nature of modern, urban man, who buys his meat from grocery stores and never has to see it cut from the body of an animal, much less kill said animal, than anything particularly wrong with China.

      Blood sports like bullfighting, dogfighting, and cockfighting were popular all the way up to the modern age, and in some parts of Europe, they still are. Growing up on a farm probably desensitizes you to a lot of the stuff that goes on behind that piece of steak you just had for dinner. Backwards? Sure, if you consider being a farmer backwards. But unless you’re a vegetarian, I should like to hear less self-righteous pomposity towards people who work in these industries so that your pampered ass can go out and buy meat by the pound.

      Saying that “it’s 2009″ really misses the point. It’s groups like PETA that brought us to where we are today, with respect to animal rights. Until China develops its own version of PETA (or PETA expands there in force), it’s unlikely to change.

  • Joshua

    It’s China. There is little to no respect for human life here, animals don’t have a chance.

  • The John

    Wow,

    We have a serial killer in the making.

    China needs to create a psychological institution or China is going to mentally crack, if it haven’t already.

    Now, I need to walk around outside knowing, that this sick pervert is around.

    Never leave home without protection folks.

    What is really funny to me, is how this guy probably a big coward in real life. He probably has no life a takes it out on kittens.

    Some of you people that are trying to justify him are dumbasses…

    He clearly did this act to watch something die with pleasure. To me, it doesn’t matter if it was a kitten or a pig. Killing someone’s babies and putting them in front of them is horrid. Not even animals do that.

    Humans are not animals and this act proves it.

    Oh and I hate how people talk about slaughter houses. I lived on a farm and saw slaughter houses. The goal is food and the kill the animal as fast as possible. The butcher doesn’t just sit there, eat popcorn and enjoy the murdering baby animals.

    Screw this guy, I hope I meet him.

    • VeerLeft

      You say him… remember the high heeled kitten crushed from Guangdong? Some women are fucked up too…

    • kittens w/ wings

      Sniff…Sniff… so sad WHYYYYYYYYYY! those kittens looked almost brand new, poor babies!

  • VeerLeft

    Sadistic is the word… however, dangerous is a much more serious word.
    The women who adopted the cat should be VERY worried for their own safety.
    This is some Friday the 13th shit…

  • Jeremiah

    5,000 years of “civilization” at it’s best.

    The best part about it are all the apologists here doing their best to deflect the responsibility of the matter by bringing up farms and slaughter-houses.

    Farms and slaughter-houses, as a general rule, do not murder animals for pleasure. They do it for food. That’s nature.

    Killing animals for fun is not nature. It’s sick. Anyone who fails to understand this is part of the problem.

    Why can’t “glorious” China and her 5,000 years of “civilization” rise above this kind of behavior? Why can’t those who take another life for pleasure be punished?

    Michael Vick (the former star QB for my favorite football team) was paid over $100 million USD to play football. You know what happened to him after the American public found out that he watched dogs fight for fun?

    He went to prison. You know what job he’s doing now? He’s a construction worker, making $10 USD an hour, hoping someday to get a second chance.

    Where are you, “glorious” China? You’ve been around for 5,000 years and you still can’t seem to find basic respect for human life. You can’t even snap out of your apathy long enough to punish those in your government or your community who trounce law and life openly.

    But what can should we expect? You don’t even have basic human rights in China. How the fuck could we expect animals to have them.

    China, this is why you will never be a world power. This is why you are 5,000 years old and are still nothing more than a “developing country.”

    Apologists unite. Come one, come all. But the facts remain. What is said can never be unsaid, what is done can never be undone. The truth speaks for itself.

    • JEremy Vick

      And speaks out another Mac-Book College Liberal who thinks Liberalism is the epitome of human psyche, morality, and thought.

      • Jeremiah

        Typical response from someone who cannot grasp the basic concept of human rights, or the inhumanity that comes along with torturing the innocent for pleasure.

        Anyone else?

        • Relative Truth

          Strange how one persons actions reflect the total of a society…

          Strange how no one praises the Chinese family for adopting a stray pregnant cat, something that everyone knows is a lot of trouble to maintain and obviously from the kindness of their hearts.

          And also strange how one example of a famous star can be used, when there is no famous star in this story, and even in America there is common animal and human abuse that is never resolved.

          And also pretty strange is the fact that in America I never heard of any stories like this, yet in China a story like this is one of the most popular internet stories out there.

          Are you sure your comment is the full picture? Or do you just hate without unbiased reason?

          If you live in China, please GTFO.

          • Jeremiah

            (1)It’s not one person’s actions, Relative Truth. This kind of shit makes the news rounds every day here in China.

            (2)The kind lady and her family are the minority here, not the majority. I’ve been in Shanghai for 2 years, my wife is Chinese.

            If my wife, who was born and raised in China, can recognize and admit this problem, why can’t you? Why can’t others like you recognize this problem?

            It’s because people like you are the problem. Rather than admit your problem, you deflect the issue, distort it, attack others who speak out against such inhumanity, yet offer no explanation or reconciliation to the fact at hand.

            (3)I used a “famous star” as an example to show that, in the U.S., even the rich and famous are prosecuted for cruelty to animals.

            The Chinese government burns dogs every day to control the “pet population.” People in rural provinces murder dogs wholesale because they are afraid the dog carries diseases. This is fact. Dispute it.

            There is a gap between Americans and Chinese when it comes to respecting all life.

            Yes, there are Americans who harm animals. But there are also laws to punish them for doing it. Someone, somewhere, cared enough for these animals to make a law, and to make sure that law carried weight.

            Where is China?

            (4)I live in China. Lived here for awhile. Living in a country doesn’t mean I have to be blind to the flaws. You guys can excuse the inhumanity all you want, you can harmonize every news story and spin it in every direction you want.

            It doesn’t change the fact that, now, in China, there is no respect for life. Not for human life, not for life of any kind.

            Get some fucking rights, make some fucking laws to protect those rights, have mercy and consideration for lifeforms lower on the evolotionary scale than yourself, and then you can deign to open your mouth about being a “great civilization.”

            Until then, STFU.

          • http://cnreviews.com Kai

            Jeremiah,

            1. Relative Truth’s comment about how one person’s actions are being used to generalize an entire society is not a denial of this “shit” making the rounds in the news every day in China. It’s about how unfair it is to generalize an entire society based upon a single person’s or a minority’s actions. Relative Truth is rightfully taking offense to you broadening this incident to justify your extended contempt for China as a whole. I’m pretty sure you understood the point Relative Truth (RT from here on out) was making, and I don’t think it was right of you to frame it as if RT was denying that this shit happens too often for all of our tastes.

            2a. I don’t think you living in Shanghai for 2 years and having a Chinese wife substantiates your claim that this kind lady and her family are a minority and not the majority. If I claim the opposite, that the majority of Chinese people fully grasp and enjoy the concept of “pets” and generally recognize that dogs and cats are widely kept as pets for companionship, would me saying that I’m Chinese and have lived in China longer than you be sufficient to prove that my claim is more correct than your’s?

            2b. Your wife recognizing and admitting that there is a problem of animal abuse in China does not mean she believes the majority of Chinese people are evil animal abusers, or that only a minority of Chinese people appreciate cats, dogs, and pets. It just means she acknowledges that there is an animal abuse problem in China, that it’s disheartening in its prevalence.

            2c. What is the basis for you to suggesting that RT doesn’t recognize and admit that there is animal abuse in China? There is nothing in RT’s post that suggests this. You’re projecting a false attribute to RT and then attacking RT for it. This is a straw man fallacy. If I was RT, I’d find that insinuation as extremely insulting and very intellectually dishonest.

            2d. RT isn’t deflecting the issue, distorting it, or attacking against those who speak out against inhumanity. RT is taking issue with people who distort this incident into wholesale condemnation of China, who are being unfair, who are being selective in what they see and don’t see. I very much believe that if you kept your condemnations to those directly responsible for this heinous act instead of indulging in making petty snipes at China’s “5000 years of civilization” and a Christmas list of grievances against Chinese society, RT wouldn’t have felt a need to say something in response to you.

            2e. What explanation or reconciliation do you think RT owes you, especially since RT isn’t doing what you’re trying to pin on him/her?

            3a. RT’s comment about Michael Vick was to state the fact that animal and human abuse happens all over the world. I assume RT felt compelled to remind you/everyone of this because RT feels there are too many people whose comments insinuate that this problem is unique to China. It isn’t unique to China. We don’t have any sociological studies at hand to refer to, but I wouldn’t be surprised that the SCALE of this problem in China is similar to other countries at similar levels of socio-economic development.

            3b. I’ll go ahead and disagree with RT on never hearing these stories in the States. I hear plenty of them. Just awhile ago a YouTube video went viral over some American kid abusing kittens.

            3c. There’s a deeper level to the fact that these animal abuse stories are so popular on China’s internet. It demonstrates that a whole lot of people in China find such behavior appalling and worthy of public censure. I imagine this alone lends credence to the claim that Chinese people like this women are NOT the minority, but very likely the majority. How else would you explain the overwhelmingly negative reactions of the Chinese people? Public censure is a social feedback mechanism, especially when actual justice (finding the person responsible) is unlikely. It helps socialize people as negative reinforcement against undesirable behaviors. Torturing little animals like this is definitely frowned upon in China and by the Chinese. That these stories routinely crop up shows how individual Chinese come together to to publicly condemn such behavior, just as Westerners have animal rights groups like PETA who use Facebook or whatever means to get the word out, to mobilize people to condemn.

            3d. Why would you challenge RT to dispute animal cullings in China? Did RT say anything to suggest that he/she doesn’t think such things happen? Again, you’re using straw man arguments to demonize RT just because RT took issue to your comments.

            3e. Animal cullings happen all around the world. This too is fact. I think we all agree that the Chinese have, in many incidents, not used methods you prefer or consider humane enough. There are reasons for this and I don’t think the implication that the Chinese are just evil uncouth bastards is the most reasonable. Many things in China happen as they do because they’re making do with what they have (this sometimes includes with what education and intelligence they have). It’s one thing to want these less than stellar examples to improve, but it’s another thing to be unfair to them given their background or circumstances.

            3f. You write “There is a gap between Americans and Chinese when it comes to respecting all life.” Who are you writing this for? The Chinese? Do you think RT or the Chinese need to be reminded of this? In my experience, I think the vast majority of Chinese already understand this gap very well. So who are you writing it for? This kind of comment gives me the impression that you felt compelled to remind everyone of American superiority or Chinese inferiority (take your pick, or both with 10% off). Can you understand how people can take legitimate offense to this kind of comment?

            3g. You ask where is China in enacting laws to protect animals. There actually are efforts to draft and enact such laws. Yes, I understand you wish they were already enacted and enforced. I think we all wish that. However, you do understand that things don’t happen overnight and setbacks happen. How long did it take for America’s existing civil rights laws to be drafted and enacted? Decades, some say even longer. Progress is made and setbacks happen, that’s just how this world is. China’s had a ton of setbacks, many self-inflicted. Don’t you think they’re far more conscious and embarrassed about them than you are?

            4a. No one is asking you to blind yourself to China’s flaws. While not very mature, I do think RT’s suggestion that you “GTFO” is more an expression of his disagreement and disgust with your comments.

            4b. I think you’re twisting the meaning behind catch-phrases like “5000 years of civilization” or “great civilization.” For one thing, it isn’t as if only Chinese people use these catch-phrases. For another, these catch-phrases aren’t used to imply that China is “great” in the sense of how wonderful it is, but how legitimately impressive it is that a reasonably continuous Chinese social identity has persisted and survived for so many years. Is there something wrong with taking a measure of pride in this? The vast majority of Chinese people are keenly aware of how chaotic their history has been, yet they’re still here. That’s kinda cool, don’t you think? Please don’t try to to make Chinese people who are proud of these things seem like they’re arrogantly proclaiming some false superiority. It is more of “wow, look at how much we’ve fucked up but we’re still here.” You’re conflating things together and misrepresenting what the significance of these catch-phrases. That’s not cool.

            It is very disappointing that people use these examples to vent racist or borderline racist sentiments. While some people at least try to understand the possible causes, influences, circumstances that lead to such deviant and abhorrent behavior, others seem content to just attribute it to “oh, they’re Chinese, of course.”

        • The Grudge

          “We don’t have any sociological studies at hand to refer to, but I wouldn’t be surprised that the SCALE of this problem in China is similar to other countries at similar levels of socio-economic development.”

          Deflecting… And very predictable commenting pattern, again and again.

          “Relative Truth is rightfully taking offense to you broadening this incident to justify your extended contempt for China as a whole.”

          We tend to judge countries on the average or the sum, not on every single individuals, that’s just how it works, sorry (look at the U.S, not everybody is George Bush). And the sum coming out of China is pretty awful.

          It’s a never ending story of human and natural catastrophes or conflicts. I mean, for God’s sake look around you and tell me another country where you can witness a daily outpouring of bad news and conflicts on such a large scale?

          Unless there is a major conspiracy going on worldwide to control the negative news coming from this country, it seems that an awful lot of atrocities comes from China. That’s just a fact.

          Negative image, worldwide. Instead of being apologists, why don’t people try to fix the issues or do something about it? Always, it’s just an endless verbal diarrhea of excuses and justifications.

          Get the fuck over your 5000+ years of history and wake up. Who gives a shit if you were a (pseudo) nation for millenniums if it doesn’t make you better today?

          NOBODY CARES! And it’s actually just reinforcing our idea that it’s meaningless and futile, especially since we can judge the current outcome of all this greatness (NOT).

          Every generation is a new nation on its own. Just look at the 90′s generation (good luck with that by the way). What’s the point of having 5000 years of history if you rewrite the books anyways?

          Isn’t the epitome of absurdity? A nation so proud of his past, that erases it and rewrite it.

          Hilarious, and very sad at the same time.

          Note: I’m not attacking you personally Kai, because I think you are moderate and generally speaking a good and rational commenter (I’m not, but I assume it). This is just a reminder to all the Feng Qing out there.

          • http://cnreviews.com Kai

            The Grudge,

            Deflecting… And very predictable commenting pattern, again and again.

            I don’t think putting things into context is deflecting. In fact, it’s a very good way to highlight how an argument that is being made and which may sound persuasive is actually quite weak because its premise depends on divorcing something from its proper context. If these problems in China are shared by those similar to China, then it would be wrong to suggest or insinuate that these problems are unique to China. Putting things into context is just excusing what is happening or deflecting attention, it is pushing us beyond settling for the easy and ignorant answer and looking for the real answers.

            We tend to judge countries on the average or the sum, not on every single individuals, that’s just how it works, sorry (look at the U.S, not everybody is George Bush). And the sum coming out of China is pretty awful.

            I understand that proclivity. Do you understand why people would take offense to those judgements just as, say, Americans would take offense to being categorically associated with, blamed, insulted for the actions of Bush? We tend to generalize, I understand, but isn’t it a good idea to be understanding of those who get annoyed with generalizations paired with the Jeremiah’s tone of contempt? I think both reactions are things all humans do, so if we’re to accept the liberties Jeremiah takes, we should accept the reactions to those liberties.

            It’s a never ending story of human and natural catastrophes or conflicts. I mean, for God’s sake look around you and tell me another country where you can witness a daily outpouring of bad news and conflicts on such a large scale?

            Frankly, I find a daily outpouring of bad news to be the status quo for all countries, but that’s more of a media observation. Specific to what you’re trying to drive at, don’t you think the large scale of China might be a part of it? Yes, part of it is because China’s a pretty hard place to live in, but with regards to scale, China IS a huge country with a massive population. Have you ever seen the news in India? It is likewise pretty demoralizing, also “a never ending story of human and natural catastrophes or conflicts.” China is overwhelming to you in part because you’re paying attention to it. If you paid attention to all of the really shitty stuff that happens in say America or the UK, I think most people would still feel rather overwhelmed by how much shit happens. The world isn’t pretty, and it’s all the less so if you set out to look for the bad. chinaSMACK contributes to making that bad stand out.

            Again, mind you, I’m not excusing or downplaying the shit that happens in China. I very much agree that its overwhelming. I am, however, trying impart a more reasonable frame of reference, a broader context. Why? Because like RT, I don’t really appreciate people going around insinuating that this is uniquely Chinese or having airs about them that really shitty stuff like this doesn’t happen elsewhere or in “the West”. It does, maybe not on the scale of China, but they’re not as big as China nor are their circumstances comparable. Do you understand my point?

            Instead of being apologists, why don’t people try to fix the issues or do something about it? Always, it’s just an endless verbal diarrhea of excuses and justifications.

            Instead of being critics, why don’t people try to fix the issues or do something about it? Always, it’s just an endless verbal diarrhea of criticisms and complaints.

            First, what makes you think apologists AREN’T trying to fix the issues and doing things about these problems? Likewise, you could say the same about critics. The logic fallacy in your statement is that you assume anyone who takes offense to the verbal abuse hurled their way are trying to excuse or justify. That’s just not true and its a dangerous assumption. Dangerous because it enables people to horribly malign and misrepresent the sincerity of others.

            There are good ways to communicate and bad ways. Just look at my past comment history for examples of both. The vast majority of negative reactions stem from a feeling of being unfairly treated. Now, I do think many Chinese people aren’t too sophisticated in the art of rhetoric and critical debate, but I think likewise for many non-Chinese people as well. Foreign arrogance and contempt is just as real as Chinese knee-jerk defensiveness. It’s just that not everyone from either side is guilty of them while some are. I find it really strange that so many foreigners cannot identify with a lot of the Chinese defensiveness and I think it is because part of them doesn’t quite see the Chinese as equivalent to themselves: human. Have these foreigners who see Chinese defensiveness as some strange alien reaction never felt wrongly persecuted? Have they never felt annoyed with being criticized? Have they never felt like the criticisms they were getting were going overboard or getting piled on too thick? Have they never just gotten tired of it all?

            I’m not excusing Chinese defensiveness and I’m most of all not excusing piss poor rhetoric or defenses. I’m just saying, geez, try to put yourself in their shoes. For a moment, stop viewing the dynamic as you vs. “the Chinese person” and view it as you vs. another person. Then consider if there’s a way to communicate in another way that might be more conducive to bringing about the change you want to see. Of course, it’d also help to be reasonable and realistic with the changes and timelines you have in mind. These things take time, and again, things progress and get setback for all sorts of reasons. Just think of the ongoing story of gay marriage in America, as it plays out in the states and federal level. It doesn’t happen over night. By all means, keep fighting (for good, not fighting for the sake of pissing each other off), but be mindful of these things. It’ll temper your frustrations and very likely bring about more mutual understanding, trust, and cooperation.

            Get the fuck over your 5000+ years of history and wake up. Who gives a shit if you were a (pseudo) nation for millenniums if it doesn’t make you better today?

            LoL, it’s kinda mean to deprive the Chinese of what little they can feel a measure of pride for. TRY to let something as small and inconsequential as this go, especially when they’re not using it to advance an argument. If they do, go ahead and take them to task if its used in a fallacious way, but try to keep it to that. If you have to, pity them for having so little to be proud of, but ideally be understanding. As many people have mentioned on chinaSMACK before, the Chinese are really quite conscious of how far they’ve yet to go compared to developed nations and they readily own up to it and admonish themselves for it. Yes, they’re a bit more insecure about it in the presence of foreigners, but most people want to feel respected. Leave them some dignity. It wasn’t necessary for Jeremiah to bring it up and lambast the Chinese for it, because no one brought it up or tried using it as an excuse or justification or irrelevant Chinese chest-thumping here.

            If it helps, just imagine the resentment many critical Europeans have over Americans’ self-image of themselves or of just about everyone critical of French arrogance. Hey, the French do have some amazing food. They do have certain things to be rightfully proud of. The Chinese have 5000 years. Take it to task if and only when it’s being improperly invoked. An example would be if some Chinese guy invoked it as if it somehow and conclusively proves that Chinese are a superior race to any other race. This happens, but seriously, very rarely.

            People don’t value about the age of their society or culture necessarily on how that age reflects how much “better” they are today. They value it for many other reasons. As I offered above, it is a testament to the fact that they’ve survived, especially when you sociological tend to view the world as a very harsh place. Jews cherish the age of their culture as well, and they cherish that they’ve survived what they perceive as ages of persecution at the hands of a variety of oppressors and enemies. Europeans cherish the age of their cultures too, or do you think they all feel shame that young 200 something America managed to achieve superpower status and cultural hegemony so quickly?

            The age of one’s culture and civilization has significance beyond the present state of things. The Roman Empire is still great for how long it lasted despite the fact that it doesn’t exist today. Age and existence can be appreciated in of themselves.

            Every generation is a new nation on its own. Just look at the 90’s generation (good luck with that by the way). What’s the point of having 5000 years of history if you rewrite the books anyways?

            Did you catch yourself straying into finding more things to express contempt of the Chinese for? Just here, you’ve branched into the 90′s generation and revisionism. To imagine, we started off with some psycho torturing kittens.

            Your tangent really proves my point, that all too often foreigners tend to pile on their grievances and ridicule and this very quickly annoys the Chinese. Are you really unable to identify?

            Isn’t the epitome of absurdity? A nation so proud of his past, that erases it and rewrite it.

            Indulging you in your tangent, I think many nations are guilty of this. I think many PEOPLE are guilty of it. It’s a very tempting thing to do if you have the power to do it, and people do it all the time. I think understanding how human such a proclivity is tempers how hypocritical we might sound when we bring it up. After all, the truth of a criticism is somewhat separate from how annoying hypocrisy is, right?

            That said, your statement is a bit inaccurate. To be accurate, the government(s) of China has selectively rewritten the past, leaving what is advantageous to them and covering up or changing what isn’t. The little “5000 years of history” piece of trivia made the cut.

            I appreciate the disclaimer at the bottom. I understand and very genuinely identify with your angst and eye-rolling disgust concerning a lot of the things or attitudes you mentioned. I understand you feel you mention these things to remind, temper, or bring down the fenqing a notch. I’m sure you understand my responses here are in the same vein, but directed to another set of things or attitudes that cause a lot of angst and eye-rolling disgust. I think its important for us to recognize the legitimacy of our respective gripes and restrain ourselves from thinking that acknowledging so somehow weakens, invalidates, or diminishes our own gripes.

    • jean

      how can you say the majority of the Chinese act this way? My parents are Chinese and they are no way like this. If you have read the comments, you will see that the Chinese are sensitive about the killings of animals for pleasure. You are just acting like your culture is superior to the Chinese culture.

  • http://hungrygirldiary.blogspot.com/ Hungry Girl

    This is animal cruelty! There should be laws against such things…Poor kittens.

    • Hitman

      There is no laws in China to protect animals.. the best thing to hope for is some rich chinese kid driving an EVO and run down these bastards…

      • kittens w/ wings

        yeah if we’re lucky he/she(god forbid) will get hit by a truck

        • kittens w/ wings

          A FRIGGEN TRUCK SLOWLY BACKING OUT OF A DRIVEWAY THAT SLOWLY CRUSHES THE ^$&%$#@!%$&% #@%$^ #$^%^ @$%%$%@ SICK #%!#$^%$#^ DONKEY !#@$#$@%#@$%*(&&*&!!!!!!

          that felt good.

  • cmfeirs

    Once again, too many people blur the issue because they do not want to “lose face” (one of the most destructive social concepts ever invented). If you cannot look at the growing number of cases like this and the growing severity, you are doomed to implode. I taught at a university in Beijing, mind you this is the capital, and I personally witnessed and/or found a sick stray cat having its head prodded by the feet of 3 university girls, a stray dog with 3 legs being chased down an alley for amusement, an old stray dog being led up the stairs of a five story building in hopes of food but only receiving ridicule and humiliation as it was just a means to watch it struggle, a stray dog hit by a car and left on the street to die, 3 family pets released on the streets in the middle of winter because they were too much of a burden during the travel time of spring festival, a stray dog with its throat cut from ear to ear being gawked at while it died, and 3 children with parents present throwing broken glass at a cat hiding in a tree. Now, I stopped and intervened in those cases. Anyone who wouldn’t has a serious disconnect from a morality code. The problem in China is not that people do not feel bad for these animals, it is that most Chinese have been raised to not care because in China it is always soomeone else’s responsibility. Before you disagree, ask yourself how many times you have seen a husband or boyfriend raise his hand in anger to strike his wife or girlfriend, and no one in China stops him??? Of course, there is no reason to stop him, it is someone else’s responsibility. It does not matter if it is morally wrong. And, don’t even start with the “who are you to say what is right and wrong” speech. Hitting a woman is wrong, torturing an animal is wrong, killing an animal (unless for sustenance) is wrong.

    • http://cnreviews.com Kai

      When say “too many people”, who exactly are you referring to and for what?

      “Face” is largely analogous to the concept of “honor” in other societies. I trust you weren’t trying to imply it was a “destructive social concept” that only the Chinese “invented”?

      Thank you for sharing your other stories. I think we all agree those are lamentable. I do think the wariness of getting involved in Chinese society is also lamentable. Do you have any thoughts on how this wariness was fostered in China and what could be done to change it?

      • The Grudge

        “Face” is largely analogous to the concept of “honor” in other societies.????

        Seriously, are you really comparing the “Face” concept to honor?

        Do you know anything about honor? Can you make the distinction between blatant lies to cover up something and deceive others because of your infinite vanity versus the concept of personal integrity and devotion to a cause?

        I’ll help you a bit and explain you how the “face” concept translates into the west.

        “Face”: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; Disposed to lie, cheat, defraud, or deceive in order to save the “face”. An excessively high opinion of oneself. Holding or characterized by an unduly high opinion of oneself. Excessive pride in one’s social appearance or accomplishments.

        The “Face” concept is fucking retarded and borrows from the most primal and animal instincts that we human have to deal with and control on a daily basis. The only difference? It’s incensed and defended on the base that it’s a “cultural” trait of the Chinese people.

        Maybe you mean honor like in:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

        Coming from another bunch of caveman’s from 10000 B.C.

        You can’t be serious. Time for a serious update of the moral code in China. As stated before, welcome to 2009.

        • http://cnreviews.com Kai

          You’re right. I should’ve been more careful in how I used the word “honor”. I think a better word that is less easily mixed up would be “reputation.” I think VeerLeft’s simple definition is pretty good too.

          That said, I don’t agree with much of your violent reaction (nor do I find your “face as translated in the West” explanation to be very accurate) but I acknowledge my poor word choice probably caused it. I do however think you have a point with “face” being paraded as a uniquely Chinese cultural trait and I do want to state very clearly that I’m not a fan of “face” either before you start attacking me as if I am. I just don’t think “face”, insofar as it largely represents a person basically caring about one’s reputation or public image, is uniquely Chinese.

        • http://cnreviews.com Kai

          I just realized that there are usages of “face” or 脸 and 面子 that aren’t well explained by English words like “reputation” or “public image” also. However, my earlier “honor” can work for these usages. I know this is a bit of a translation/semantic issue but bear with me. For example:

          “你要给他面子” which is “You need to give him face.”

          You can’t really translate “face” here with “reputation” or “public image.” However, you could translate it as “You need to honor him.”

          “Honor”, of course, is still a bit weird in a archaic way, but it does work as a verb. A better translation may be: “You need to give him respect” or “You need to give him deference.”

          Try these also:

          “你很丢脸”

          “你很没面子”

          “你没面子了”

          How would you translate each of these into English?

          • kittens w/ wings

            box is getten smaller…

      • Yin

        Face is not the same as honor.

        Face ~ reputation, and is the classic feature of a shame culture (as opposed to a guilt culture). In shame cultures, it’s the appearance of your actions that matter, rather than the underlying substance. In guilt cultures, it’s the opposite. The basic assumptions are fundamentally different: shame cultures base the value of actions on their interpretation(s) by society, while guilt cultures base the value of actions on their interpretation(s) by the self.

        Thus, in a shame culture there is no incentive to behaving morally if others aren’t watching, because morality is only defined with respect to other people’s opinions. By contrast, in a guilt culture there IS incentive to behaving morally if others aren’t watching, because morality is defined with respect to the self and/or some higher power that is all-seeing.

        Of course, in practice most cultures have a combination of shame and guilt, but some cultures do indeed lean towards shame over guilt, and vice versa. I’d say that East Asian societies in general are more shame-based than they are guilt-based, hence the constant pressure to hide, deny, and deceive.

        • The Grudge

          Well said Yin.

          Tom sum it all: Guilt means that there is at least a shadow of compassion and understanding towards others, in relation with one’s action. While shame, is purely an egoistical and primitive reaction.

          The outcome of both psychological path is pretty clear.

          • Yin

            Thanks, but I should point out that I disagree with you on the matter of how *edible* animals are treated in China vs. the West. I think there is a central hypocrisy there that many people are missing, and which makes the issue not so black-and-white. Read my posts below for more.

        • VeerLeft

          Face is public image.
          Loss of face is embarrassment.

        • kittens w/ wings

          so very extreemly sad, >:-C THEY MUST PAY!!!!

          • kittens w/ wings

            box is getten smaller…

    • poor thing

      Even though its for the sake of argument thats horrible. How can you witness and hold all those things in. The imagery must be stuck in your head. I feel for you. Nevertheless, you must be pretty jaded and focus on that now. Come back to the blue sky and sunny meadows :)

  • lolly

    @JEremy Vick

    You’re right, China is making progress.

    See the fun the “Celestial Ones” used to have with humans not long ago. Now they only use defenseless animals. In another hundred years, they will be as civilized as you are.

    “Photos of death by 1000 cuts”

    http://turandot.ish-lyon.cnrs.fr/Event.php?ID=10

    • poor thing

      wow, you must be one depressed sadistic **** to enjoy looking this stuff up then making snide comments. I feel sorry for you too and not in a condescending way.

      I hope you can enjoy life again.

  • cmfeirs

    A footnote to my previous post – all of the afforementioned examples happened within 9 months on the same campus. Ridiculous and shameful.

    • Hitman

      cmfeirs, if there are just few millions more of you in China, China will certainly be a very great and powerful nation…

    • VeerLeft

      I think that it is not a coincidence that this happened on a university campus. Students here often feel tormented and enslaved. This is an extension of student life IMHO.
      Add sexual repression to this and you have a very dangerous kind of mix.

    • poor thing

      its so sad that you have to witness it too. How’s the mental imagery going for you these days. Jaded enough?

  • PUSAN PLAYA

    Such a waste of food, how dare someone be so decadent when there are children going hungry in Guangzhou!

  • DWR

    It seems to me that there is a legitimate difference between killing an animal for food and taking pleasure in suffering. That is the central difference between the story posted here and comments about restaurants.

    To be honest, the grrafix.com link (above) is no different from choosing fish or lobsters at a restaurant, and you don’t see people making a fuss about that in the West.

    This story, however, is quite different. I’m no bleeding heart liberal, but I used to work for a charity (http://www.scottishspca.org/) which looked after abused and abandoned animals. It is truly disgusting what some people will do to animals (dogs, horses, even stick insects and polecats).

    Trying to be objective, one can only hope that the authorities can arrest and detain the person responsible before they commit more or worse atrocities. Any violence against the perpetrator/s is equally unjustified.

    DWR

  • Yannick

    cmfeirs,Jeremiah, great posts, I think you pretty much covered it up. Anyone else who tries to blur the line in indeed in denial, and refusing to take responsibility for what is a major social problem, and therefore, it affects us all.

    And yes, that’s also how serial murderers start, classic pattern.

    Are we truly the only ones to think that chinese society is one huge kettle of pent-up frustration and anger that is on just on the verge of blowing up ?! How little time have you spent in China to not see that already ?!? Seriously… !

    And about the farms, and food arguments — totally moot. Indeed killing for fun and for food are completely different. I really think there’s nothing more to say here.

    If anyone tries to defend this act in the name of “objectivity”, you’re really just veering towards sociopathy/psychopathy without knowing it.

  • Yannick

    It really just comes down to no one taking responsibility. It’s the cause of 90% of this country’s problems. And until it changes (and taking responsibility means YOU take responsibility first), China will stay in the mess it put ITSELF in for the past century, at least.

    You can have all the “hardware” you want (buildings, roads, currency reserves), but if the “software” (sense of personal responsibility, social empathy, basic morals and manners) isn’t working, all that hardware will be for absolutely naught. And you can’t just keep building hardware forever without putting some proper software in there, either.

    • poor thing

      do you still enjoy life’s simple pleasures?

      • yb

        yes. and your point is…. ?

  • jeff

    this reminds me of my dog. I have a house in China where my grandparents live, and we had a baby golden retriever. One morning, my grand mom found it dead in the yard, and there was a bowl of rice outside the yard’s gate. They mixed sleeping pills or something into that bowl of rice, and when my dog was eating it, they grabbed it and beat it up. This happened to my other dog in china, but it was bigger so the pills took longer to take effect and it was saved, since my grandparents were doctors (not vet) i miss that baby dog, only got it for 2 weeks and it was killed my dog eating bastard in china.

  • Yin

    Re: killing for food

    Killing for food IS killing for pleasure in today’s world, because last I checked, you didn’t need to eat meat. You eat it for pleasure -> you kill animals for pleasure. It’s simple logic, yet people ignore it wholeheartedly in their self-righteous pontifications.

    Re: no difference between this case and slaughter-houses

    There IS a psychological difference between torturing/slaughtering animals and taking pleasure in that torture/slaughter versus killing animals for culinary pleasure, but that difference lies not in the moral quality of the situation but in what it says about the person’s state of mind. In the former case, it is the act of sadism that brings pleasure, which bespeaks of a disturbed mind. This disturbance threatens society because it could easily transform into psychopathic behavior. In the latter case, the blood and the brutality goes on behind closed doors, where the average meat eater never sees it. Therefore, we can be reasonably secure that there is no sadistic intent.

    But that’s it. Beyond this discrepancy it’s all killing for pleasure. Don’t pretend that you don’t pay higher prices for steak than you do for lettuce. Don’t pretend this voting-by-wallet has no effect on the number of animals being raised and killed. If you don’t like what you see in Chinese meat markets you should think about your culinary habits, first and foremost, because there is no easy way out of the logic that you support killing animals for pleasure.

    • Yin

      Just the same, it is interesting to note that lists of animal intelligence place pigs above either dogs or cats; yet, pigs are food and are slaughtered on a daily basis, but kill a dog or cat for food and you’re suddenly barbaric and backwards.

  • Miaozi

    You got all those hits and comments for that? Miaow it happens all over the world. Anyway, they’ll only end up at kebabs on Tongren Lu which you’ve probably eaten anyway. Like we need a load more cats dude. Fuck ‘em. Don’t slay China on cat maltreatment if thats all you got, muthafucka. At least we don’t go spraying teenage schools with AK47′s, assholes. Screw the cats, people took their revenge out on the owners, not the pussy.

  • Sushi

    40 years ago the Red Guards were doing this to people. I guess this is further proof that China is moving towards a more harmonious society because of the Party’s great leadership.

    • Yin

      As if things were much better in the imperial days.

      It’s possible to blame the Party for many things, but it’s not possible to pretend that the state of Chinese morality was great before the Party came into power.

    • mike

      except some of them ate their victims afterwards. ironically…there was no cat-eating here.

  • Y

    Yin, I at least agree with you on the latest post, this has SO nothing to do with communism (if anything, that’s probably what they wanted to correct when they came up with it).

    But as for killing to eat = pleasure, sorry, but that’s a very thin thread. “you don’t need meat” is debatable. If you don’t, then you need some good supplements, and a lot of those come from meat by-products anyways, soo… not much change there. (and while we’re at it, is it ok to eat fish ?!)

    For the pig part, I don’t eat pork meat exactly for the reason you stated. And everyday I try hard to limit my meat consumption, and if I have some, that’s what i’ll finish first because I’m well aware that an animal died for it to end up on my plate.

    This is all part of the complete consciousness that we should aim for. Obviously this escapes most of us, though.

  • Yin

    Y, I think animal rights vegetarians would disagree with you that we need any meat, and that supplements can almost always be synthesized or, if not, taken from animals without killing them (ie milk, unfertilized eggs, etc.) The real question then becomes one of moral philosophy, in particular having to do with the proper relationship between our treatment of an organism and the nature of that organism. The point I’m making is that people are happy to condemn others for not having the same perception of what’s proper, even as they violate their own definition of what’s proper themselves.

    This is really two separate points. The first point is that biases and inconsistencies hamper the usefulness of ethical arguments. Not only is meat eating legal in the West, but so is hunting. Hunting is basically killing animals for pleasure (and is characterized as such – a sport). On what ground, then, do Westerners condemn what other cultures do?

    This must be made clear by those who criticize animal rights in China, because it’s not as simple as “China treats animals bad. The West treats animals good.” Rather, there are nuances, and each nuance must be examined to see whether they hold. One such nuance is the distinction between “pets” and “food animals,” which differ from country to country. In parts of China, dogs and cats are seen as legitimate “food animals.” To criticize such practices on an ethical level, Westerners must be ready to argue that dogs and cats are special in ways that pigs and cows are not. Moreover, they must be ready to accept that such arguments could be culturally subjective, in which case they have limited ethical value.

    The second point is that there IS wiggle room in the proper delineation of what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable when it comes to animal rights. While we might all condemn the torture and murder of kittens, it is simply not true that cases are always so clear-cut. Even within Western society, the differences are pronounced, and we are reminded of this each time PETA starts a new campaign. Given this fact, how much currency should actually be placed in the association between civilization and animal rights? How many people here buy into the idea that vegetarians are more civilized? If not, then isn’t it the case that people’s personal stance with regards to animal rights is not necessarily determinant of their level of civilization?

    Ultimately, I think there is some real ground for controversy in the debate over how we should treat different species of animals. Cases like this one, which is clear-cut, do not speak to the nuances inherent in the general subject, and it is not helpful to conflate issues like whether Chinese people eat cats & the state of rural dog culling technology with the psychopathic killing of pet kittens.

  • Miako Tamatsue

    I’m just curious. Does anyone here take pleasure in seeing the reaction of the cat owner?

  • sofa_king

    Sad but who the heck cares? Chinese don’t need pets in the first place unless they know how to train them and properly take care of them. I hope at least some poor people were able to make a meal out of those things.

  • J Dawg

    After living a long time in Kunming I could tell you that this kind of shit happening is not too unusual. It’s a big city full of nongmin.

  • lolly

    @Kai you sure write a lot of pompous bull-s**t.

    I remember visiting the Shanghai zoo a number of years ago and seeing a small dog in the cage with several tigers. The dog was obviously “nervous.” When I asked why a dog was kept in a cage with tigers, I was told that the tigers were well-fed and the dog was not in danger. I was never given a reason for this sick “joke.”

    Cruelty, lack of compassion, sadism, are key elements in Chinese history and culture.

    Kai, people criticize China’s constant bragging about their little 5,000-year old history because one would think that after 5.000 years, the Chinese would be a little more evolved in social behavior and decent humanity. If it took 5,000 years for China to get to this point in their history, how long will it take them to reach the social level of New Zealand?

    If Kai wants to continue to try and “apologize” away these facts, well, we understand – for those “wannabe Chinese,” you do what you have to.

  • http://cnreviews.com Kai

    lolly, given that all your “facts” have already been called to question by the pompous bullshit I’ve written before, all that’s left to say is: you’re an idiot.

    • Jeremiah

      Kai, you’re the idiot. You are the classic example of an apologist.

      Try ONCE to make a post about China’s lack or morality WITHOUT bringing up what goes on in “countries of a similar socio-economic development.”

      You can’t. Because you’re an apologist. Rather than condemn these actions and admit that Chinese people have a long way to go, and leave it at that, you feel the need to hurry up and throw and a bunch of other names into the hat to try and diminish or deflect the original point, which is China’s continuing problem in regards to the respect of all life.

      China has this problem. We’re not talking about India, or any other country. We’re talking about China. Stick to the topic. If you can.

      China does not have basic human rights. Fact. China has no laws in place to protect animals. Fact. China is running a form of government that has, historically, been proven to fail in the end. Fact.

      Dispute this without deflecting the issue. Dispute this without putting the names of other countries in your mouth. If you can.

      Now to address your off-topic bullshit, which you should’ve never brought up… you mentioned how it took decades for minorities to get civil liberties in the U.S. LAUGHABLE. You’re right. It took decades. It certainly did. But we now have a minority in office, running our country. And we voted him in freely. He didn’t have to put himself into power through bloodshed, like your glorious communist party.

      The U.S. gained all that it has in less than 200 years. She became the greatest country the world has ever known, and her people are strong and they’re free.

      China’s had 5,000 years to get it right. Where is she now? How much longer until she succeeds?

      Answer me, if you can. Sadly, the truth is, you cannot answer these questions, Kai. You can’t, because you’re of the same ilk as those who’ve turned Mao Zedong into sweet “grandpa Mao,” because of your insane cult of personality bullshit. The killer from Hunan. The man responsible for killing more Chinese than every other nation combined.

      Imagine if Germans so distorted the facts of their own history that Hitler came to be known as “grandpa Hitler?” Can you now understand how laughably, sadly, unbelievabley patehtic that is?

      No. you can’t. Because you’re an apologist.

      I’ll say it again. China has a long way to go. It doesn’t matter what you say, what you do, how hard you apologize or whine or cry, it can never change this fact. Try to face it and to deal with it, instead of deflecting the issue and noting what other countries are doing. China is not other countries. It is far from it.

      I’ll leave you with this thought, my friend. A true patriot will shine light on the darkest corner of his country, and he will magnify it for all to see, so that he may change it and make it better.

      A true patriot will not hide this dark corner, and pretend that it does not exist. He will not justify it’s existence. He will not say, “There are dark corners in my neighbor’s house too. Therefore dark corners are natural, and should be spoken of no more.”

      Understand this, something you have never understood before. People do not exist to serve the government. A government exists to serve it’s people. If a government does not serve it’s people, it is the job of every true patriot to replace this government with one that works. Not to stand by idly, apologizing for it’s mistakes, and deflecting attention away from it’s atrocities.

      P.S. The Grudge, Yannick, cmfeirs, lolly; all great posts.

      • Rick in China

        Jeremiah, you’re a fucking tool.

        First of all, I’m far from one to ‘defend China’ or be an apologist, as many of my posts can attest to, however:

        Look at the Chinese posts. Ask anyone around you. Don’t sit on the “China” bandwagon based on your speculative observations, but ASK PEOPLE YOU KNOW how they react to this story, ask people you know what they think about killing/culling of animals. I have asked people in my office what they think, everyone loves animals. Some attest to the fact some ‘outdoor’ animals left to the streets carry disease – which *is understandable* – but there is a defined difference between potentially diseased homeless animals, animals people consume which are bred for food, and house pets. I don’t know what kind of people YOU know that you’ve spoken with to derrive your ridiculously jaded opinion, but you’re fuckin dreaming.

        Certainly there are quite a few bad people here who abuse animals here. There are also quite a few who abuse animals in any country. Clearly you don’t read much news. Google “serial cat murderer”.

        It’s not “accepted”. Look at the outpour of anger and sadness in the comments that CHINESE people have posted. Do you see a SINGLE comment that acknowledges the murder in a way like “big deal” or “who cares”? I didn’t. I don’t know where you get your information, but the information *presented here* and information *in my personal life* contradicts your bullshit entirely. If you’re hanging out with people who consider animal abuse fine, maybe *you’re* the fucked up one who needs to check yourself, not “China”.

        Certainly the country has a long way to go in many regards. I agree that there should be more defined laws and groups to protect animal rights and register pets rather than let them be pushed by shadow-economy style pet ‘pushers’ and such, and I believe that the country *is moving* towards that right now. Notice the forced pet registrations going on in some cities? GOOD. Then they can control the pet population, and force people to take care and responsibility for their animals – as well as intrinsically bring some respect to them as being acknowledged by the government as requiring some sort of registration and legitimization.

        Going off on the “China has had 5000 years to get it right” bullshit is ridiculous. First of all, I’m the first one to crack the “5000 years my ass, you still shit in troughs” comment. That doesn’t mean much. The “claims” made vs. the reality that most civilizations have really only modernized in the last recent century or two for ANY culture really make that an irrelevent argument. Consider this, it was only recently africans all over the world were segmented off as a lesser species of man, given lesser rights than others..animals were treated better in recent US history than them, every country has to go through their own steps, allow China to go through theirs.

        I’m not saying don’t critique, critique away, just don’t critique from a soap box and fling the “don’t say I have problems to avoid your own” argument back when someone else calls you on your shit too. Every country has a long way to go in many ways, China just perhaps farther than others in many. That being said, get over yourself, and stop trying to make it like everyone in China is a fucking animal torturer when the evidence is clearly not pointing to that fact.

      • http://cnreviews.com Kai

        LoL! Jeremiah Jeremiah Jeremiah…

        1. Rick already said a bunch.

        2. Pretty much every single point you tried making was already addressed in my previous responses.

        3. I love the very likely notion that you register that I disagree with you, look at my photograph, and then make assumptions about who I am, where I’m from, my “ilk”, my “cult of personality”, etc. And yet you’re sooo far off the mark.

        4. Keep going at it, Jeremiah. You’ll take comfort in the people who agree with you, as there ARE plenty who do. I will, however, just continue to pity you and those cohorts just as I take pity on the fenqing. You guys really are more alike than different, and I hope you’ll learn that someday…but I guess not today.

        • Jeremiah

          Dick in China – You’re a doucebag. You cannot debate the points I’ve made, so you resort to the same deflection that Kai did.

          “every country has to go through their own steps, allow China to go through theirs.”

          We’re not talking about other countries. We’re talking about China. And until China develops basic human rights, and rights for animals, I will continue to sit on my “soap-box.”

          The only reason you guys are getting pissed and calling me names is because you know what I’m saying is true. When China isn’t burning animals, beating dogs to death with sticks, or torturing cats, then we’ll talk again.

          Kai

          Congratulations. You took my challenge of making a post minus your defelcetions and apologist bullshit.

          And we were left with… an amazingly short-winded response bereft of your typical long-winded apologist drivel. Thanks for that.

          • http://cnreviews.com Kai

            Jeremiah, refusing to acknowledge other people’s rebuttals to your “points” is not the same as them not debating them. For example, I responded to each of your “points” above and instead of addressing my points, you simply saw fit to repeat your accusation that anyone who disagrees with you must be an apologist and then soap-box the same “points” others already responded to. This is what we call intellectual dishonesty. You’re not here to actually have a reasoned discussion as you’re here to slam the Chinese and anyone who would beckon that you exercise reason. You’re an extremist, someone who sees things as black or white, us vs. them, either with you or against you. That’s too bad. It’s also too bad that there are many people in this world who walk the same path you do.

            I, and I’m sure Rick as well, know you’re talking about China. The problem is you don’t know or refuse to acknowledge what WE’RE (RT, RIC, myself) talking about. Have you considered for a moment that we’re not trying to justify, excuse, deflect the problems in China but that we find your attitude, arguments, rhetoric, etc. to be inappropriate and distasteful? Why is that we have all openly acknowledged that there are problems in China but are still taking issue with you? If you say there are problems and we say there are problems, then the issue in contention is NOT whether there are problems, but about something else. You keep trying to make us seem like we’re denying, deflecting, etc. when that’s not the case. Again, straw man fallacy.

            You have spent more time repeating the same accusations without substantiation in this thread than you’ve actually discussed the points. Your argumentation is absurd. Case in point: “You’re just mad at me because I’m right! Nyah!” What are you, in kindergarten?

            I’ve said before that there is legitimacy in both of our grievances. It’s unfortunate that you want to persist in your self-righteous arrogance.

          • poor thing

            Kai, Rick, you’re wasting your time giving him/her serious responses. He’s too far gone. Why bother having a discussion with someone who’s ready to bite at your leg without even thinking thoroughly?

          • http://cnreviews.com Kai

            poor thing, yeah, I understand what you mean. To be honest, I have very few delusions about changing Jeremiah’s opinion/prejudices. I don’t think we write to convince or change him, but to just make sure anyone who cares to read hears another voice. I know if I go to a website or into a group, hear only one narrative, and start thinking everyone there thinks that way, I’ll very likely leave demoralized if I don’t share that narrative.

            chinaSMACK has already been overrun by racists and I don’t bother responding to all of them because I draw a line somewhere expecting others to easily dismiss the really dumb racist comments. However misguided and biased I think Jeremiah is, he’s far more dangerous and worth a written rebuttal because of the superficial eloquence and persuasiveness of his comments. It’s easy to nod your head in agreement with all the grandiose things he’s saying until you start questioning just what exactly he’s basing all these comments on.

            I take him to task not because I expect him to change, but because I’d rather others reading this know that not everyone here on chinaSMACK thinks like him. Furthermore, a lot of people may feel that what he says is wrong, but not know how to explain why. This is normal, everyone has their own talents. If I may humbly share my own educational training and minor talent for argument and debate, I hope doing so can help others articulate their own feelings better when they might encounter people like Jeremiah elsewhere. One of the great things about Western education is the emphasis on encouraging critical thinking and debate. We’re taught to question and voice our disagreements to better understand not just the issue in contention but also ourselves.

  • laowai

    Wow, little hotties!!! Wish he had the balls to do some upskirt shots…

  • http://www.grrafix.com Ben

    Who is to say it was not the photographer who killed the kittens to get the photo? Some people do any cruelty to get sensational photos.

  • Not Found

    Good Post Jeremiah, it’s a waste of time to argue with some of the “people” here!

    Rick(whatever)/Kai,
    Hopefully one day you guys will be able to find excuses for those who cut you open & toss your bodies infront of your family as well!

    P.S. Rick, you can go back and fuck yourself, just don’t fuck around here!

    • http://cnreviews.com Kai

      Not Found, I’m curious to hear what evidence you have to suggest that we’re finding excuses for people animal torture. Finding Jeremiah’s attitude objectionable has nothing to do with our acceptance of animal abuse.

      • Jeremiah

        Seems like you’ve got a real fanclub here, Kai. Other than you and your boy Rick, I don’t see to much support being thrown your way.

        You ever think that maybe the rest of the world isn’t viewing China through the same harmony-tinted glasses you are?

        Or is it because every time someone posts something negative about China, you have to run to the rescue with some shit about how “other countries” are just the same way, were the same way, etc…

        Just admit this shit is fucked up and move on. The only intellectually dishonesty I see going on is from your end.

        But I guess this is just civilization with “chinese characteristics.” Right? Keep swimming upstream river crab, hopefully you’ll get there some day.

        • http://cnreviews.com Kai

          Wow, are you really trying the “I’ve got more people agreeing with me so I’m right and you’re wrong” argument?

          You ever think that maybe the rest of the world isn’t viewing China through the same harmony-tinted glasses you are?

          Do you read? I wrote this earlier:

          You’ll take comfort in the people who agree with you, as there ARE plenty who do.

          I think more of the world sees China as you do than as I do. This however doesn’t mean your view of China is more accurate, much less correct. It’s a matter of exposure to information and individual consideration.

          You say I view China with “harmony-tinted” glasses. I say you view China with “self-righteous arrogance”. Shrug.

          Or is it because every time someone posts something negative about China, you have to run to the rescue with some shit about how “other countries” are just the same way, were the same way, etc…

          Why do you feel entitled to posting something negative about China and feel this entitlement includes precluding others from reacting to what you post? If you want to share your opinion, please have the decency to allow others their own. It’s evident that we both think each other’s arguments are “shit”. Fun.

          Just admit this shit is fucked up and move on.

          Where haven’t I admitted that the torturing and mutilation of four kittens is fucked up? I have repeatedly declared that I find this fucked up. Do you read?

          The only intellectually dishonesty I see going on is from your end.

          The fact that I respond to your comments point by point and you don’t is a testament to where the intellectual dishonest is going on. Just take a look at my first response to your diatribe. Point by point, I believe I responded very civily and took great pains to not only explain my disagreement, but point out where we agree. Did you ever respond? No, I think you just called me an apologist (as you initially threatened anyone who dared disgree with you) and tried unilaterally declaring victory.

          • The John

            Yo, i’m down with Kai.

            Dude, keeps things balanced. Yeah, there is problem with animal cruelty. However, I don’t think saying all Chinese are animal abusers is fair.

            Although, I really enjoy reading both sides of the fence. Somewhere in the middle is the truth.

            But, Kai is cool man. I love all you guys.

        • poor thing

          I feel it has nothing to do with support. More that you’re posting such sad shit on these boards where there may be people who will actually take you seriously and I feel sorry for those who you might actually hold sway over.

      • Not Found

        Kai, evertime there is a post about sth wrong in our country, when people expressing their anger/ sadness torwards those issue, you have to hurry up and try to defend it, i don’t need to show you “the envidence” because you left it everywhere on this site, you just enjoying arguing with tons of people here with your long “articals”, trying to find problems from other peoples’ comments other than really expressing your feelings to any news. Being a chinese myself, reading about such sick things happening here, I’d rather to admit its wrong, we do have a long way to go in everywhere, sitting here to defend it makes us has a even longer way to go…

        • 没找到

          为什么要承认根本不存在的指控?这个网站上一部分评论的人就是不坏好意,是所谓的China-basher,一提到中国负面的消息就像打了枪药,兴奋的不得了,为了诽谤中国而诽谤,不惜以偏概全,混淆事实。即便你承认了那些是你的错,这些人也不会停止,而是变本加厉地继续诽谤,更何况他们指控的并不是事实。

          谦虚是中华文化的优良传统,所谓谦虚使人进步,但这种传统只能对有理智的人用,对这些失去理智的反华的粪粪,最好的办法是以牙还牙以眼还眼。外国人对中国的误解已经相当深了,其中一个很重要的原因是我们面对他们的非议的不作为和不辩解。要消除误解只有一个办法,就是针锋相对的激烈辩论,讲出自己的看法。

          更何况,Kai并不是“为谁而辩护”,他只是抒发己见,无论是对人还是对事的看法。他是一个斗士,是在为自己内心的真理而战,不屈不挠,不知疲倦,而且他思维清晰逻辑明确论据充分,从这点说,我很佩服他。

          最近在看当年明月的《明朝那些事儿》,如果Kai生在明朝,一定是个勇于直言极谏的言官,哈哈。

          http://baike.baidu.com/view/391619.htm

          • Sara

            说得好!我支持Kai

          • Not Found

            承认不存在的指控?血淋淋地事实放在眼前,我们还要继续骗自己?有的时候我们是不是高估了自己,总是觉得别人要故意污蔑我们国家,以为别人吃饱了都没事做整天就在那里想尽办法反华,如果我们国家没有问题,就不会给别人理由来抨击。

          • 没找到

            给你举个例子吧:

            你想承认自己是虐猫犯,我真是一点意见都没有。但我不是,我周围的亲朋好友也不是。所以如果有人看到一个06年4月发生的虐猫案就不怀好意地推而广之为多数中国人现在都是虐猫犯,而且言语中充满了种族歧视的话,我真的是非常反感。我不是高估了我自己,因为我确实没有虐待过猫。多数人有谴责少数道德沦丧者的权利,但没有为他们承担罪行后果的义务,对吧。

            你说恰恰是反的,确实有人想故意污蔑中国人,而且吃饱了没事干天天发表种族歧视言论,嗨的很,你如果浏览ChinaSMACK久了你就看出来了。批评CCP和政府,我是一点意见都没有,很可能还帮你添油加醋,但这种恶意污蔑一个族群一棒子打死一群人的做法我是相当有意见。

            另外,“如果我们国家没有问题,就不会给别人理由来抨击”,这个论述的成立性仅仅局限于理论。因为攻击的人会把以前的问题当做现在攻击的借口,把其他方面的问题当做这个攻击的借口,把个别的问题当做全面攻击的借口,正所谓欲加之罪何患无辞也,很多时候想要攻击的动机是在先的,寻找要攻击的借口是之后的。接受批评也是要区别对待的,恶意的中伤则要给与还击,何况你来我往的辩论始终是没有坏处的,通过辩论认识到自己的缺陷往往比闷头承认得到的启迪要深刻的多。

          • http://cnreviews.com Kai

            Not Found, you’re still not differentiating between blind defensiveness and reasonable objection to unfair condemnation. EVERYONE here agrees China needs to keep improving and progressing. SOME of us just find the self-righteous arrogance and hypocrisy of OTHERS to be intolerable. There’s a difference. You’re confusing the issues, man.

          • Not Found

            承认的不是谁是虐猫犯,是这样的事情常在我们国家发生,今天拿出来说的也许已经发生了一段时间,但是相同的事情还在发生着,只是因为不在网上,不代表我们就能眼不见为净。我们国家在很多方面的确需要改进,评论的人也只是对事而不是对人,只是某些人听到一些不同的意见就像被踩了尾巴,整天追着不放,不能同化别人就誓不罢休,已经完全失去了在这里评论的意义。

          • 没找到

            @ Not Found

            “相同的事情还在发生着,只是因为不在网上,不代表我们就能眼不见为净”

            确实如此,这些行为应该被谴责,犯罪的人应该被查出来,也许没有法律可以制裁他,但是应该受到道德的谴责。但是对于我们多数人来说,应该站在谴责的一方而不是站在被谴责的一方。接受批评并不代表应该容忍恶意中伤,对吧。

            “(恕删)…已经完全失去了在这里评论的意义”

            我LOL了。ChinaSMACK文章的评论区不是最高法院的辩论现场,也不能解决任何实质问题,反而是各种异灵怪兽撒野拉粪的游乐场,你对这里讨论的期望太高,也把这里很多人的素质想象的太高了,其实,操英文的脑残比比皆是。

          • http://cnreviews.com Kai

            Not Found,

            评论的人也只是对事而不是对人

            你这就错了。就是因为有人(比如我自己)觉得某些人评论的不只对事而对人才在反抗。也许你只没感到这点。

            只是某些人听到一些不同的意见就像被踩了尾巴,整天追着不放,不能同化别人就誓不罢休,已经完全失去了在这里评论的意义

            该承认的都承认了,这谁还没承认中国还必须改进?大家写了那么多,你应该能指出来这些人吧?

          • Not Found

            没找到,我从来没有把在这里评论的人的素质想的很高,也没对这里的讨论有何期望,某些人早已向我证明了这些事实。

          • 没找到

            Not Found, 看来我们已经达成了局部的共识,虽然我说的“某些人”和你说的“某些人”应该不一样。希望你留住热情,保持队形,一如既往地为ChinaSMACK的盖楼事业添砖加瓦, lol.

        • whatever

          Well, some of these commenter on here are freaking assholes. I fully support Kai in his effort, especially all his arguments are sound and logical.

          It’s basically like every instances on here is: Post on some stupid human crap…ChINKS ARE EVIL FUCKS…blah blah. It gets old.

          I definitely do no condone any of the sadist kitten mudering actions. And I see some of their points. However, like Kai and Yin mentioned, dudes needs to put this in context (versus just one-sided judgment against the Chinese people without regard for anything. I.E fucking chinks suxxors bitches die woot).

          *I know China has problems.

          **I should just ignore.

        • http://cnreviews.com Kai

          Not Found, that’s just not true. Within these comments in this post itself is all the evidence necessary to demonstrate how untrue it is. Look at all the comments expressing sadness and anger towards this horrifying act. Am I taking issue with them? NO. I take issue with those who try to use this example to wrongfully and unfairly condemn the rest of China and Chinese people in one fell swoop. That’s crossing a line.

          I’d rather to admit its wrong,

          I challenge you to find something I’ve said above that suggests I don’t think animal torture is wrong. You won’t find any, because I have always believed and have openly agreed that animal tortue is wrong. What is ALSO wrong is the wholesale condemnation of the Chinese by people like Jeremiah and lolly. I’m arguing with them NOT because I think animal tortue is not wrong or that I’m not willing to admit animal tortue is wrong. I’m arguing with them because of the conclusions they’re drawing about the Chinese through this one incident. You’re confusing the two, possibly purposefully.

          Here’s one big thing neither Jeremiah, lolly, or you have yet to address:

          Who do you think MORE represents Chinese society? The douchebag who did this to these kittnes? Or the utterly shocked and horrified reactions of the women who adopted the stray cats and all the Chinese netizens who have come upon this news story?

          Second question:

          Given that Jeremiah believes the kitten abuser represents Chinese society. Do you agree with him?

          If you don’t agree with him, then you might just finally understand what it is RT, Rick in China, Yin, and other people here who have either commented against Jeremiah, Lolly, etc. or voted against them are taking issue with.

          • Not Found

            You just proved what i said, enjoy your arguement, I’m sure you will find the ” pleasure”, just not from me!

          • Not Found

            “I’m arguing with them because of the conclusions they’re drawing about the Chinese through this one incident. “-Kai

            We had more than this one incident, we actually have too many “accidents” happened here, its time to make a change.

          • http://cnreviews.com Kai

            Uh, it’s time for you to start answering the questions above.

          • Not Found

            Go find your pleasure somewhere else, its time for me to ignore u.

    • poor thing

      I feel like so many of these people waste their time and lives. On you go into the group of sad jaded mofos who have grudges to bear and nothing better, positive or productive to do

      *sadface*

  • lolly

    Wow!

    Kai says: ” lolly you’re an idiot.”

    Rick in China says: “Jeremiah, you’re a fucking tool.”

    ” . . . [Jeremiah} you’re* the fucked up one."

    The senseless killing of four kittens again focuses the spotlight on the character of Chinese society.

    In the final analysis, name calling doesn't answer the questions:

    Is China becoming a more humane society (after 5,000 years)?

    Is China, as a "political power," contributing to world peace?
    Disregard China relationship with the countries below so it does not distort the answer:
    [Sudan, Myanmar, Pakistan, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Iran]

    Is China, as an economic “giant,” a responsible world player in product safety?
    [Disregard the export safety scandals below so that they do not distort the answer] “poison” toothpaste, “poison” milk, toxic toys, “poison” candy, flammable children’s clothing, etc.

    Is China currenty practicing less censorship?

    Are Chinese becoming more tolerant, less xenophobic, less racist?

    Simple answers to these current issues, instead of name calling, will give an indication if China is truly progressing in its 5,000 year culture.

    • http://cnreviews.com Kai

      lolly, calling you an idiot is pretty much a deserved response to calling my comments pompous bullshit. I think we’re at least even here.

      The senseless killing of four kittens does focus the spotlight on Chinese society. The issue here is that different people see different things. RT, RIC, and apparently I happen to see certain things we feel you, Jeremiah, and others don’t see or refuse to see. You see the animal abuser as representative of Chinese society. We, on the other hand, see the horrified responses of the Chinese hearing this news as MORE representative of Chinese society.

      Is China becoming a more humane society after 5000 years? If you’ve studied Chinese history, you’d probably agree with me in saying “why yes, it is.” No one here is denying that it isn’t as humane as we’d all like it to be, but to divorce the current state of Chinese society with what led up to this point is illogical and unfair.

      Is China contributing to world peace? This is a pretty silly question because it can’t objectively be answered without considering geopolitical circumstances. I personally think China isn’t actively trying to destabalize the world but rather doing what any country would do and DOES do: look out for its own interests. Please keep in mind that challenging the dominance of your country or your ideology is NOT destabilizing world peace. Please keep in mind that the competition of ideas is very much part and parcel of “Western” ideology too, just in case you’ve forgotten.

      Is China a responsible world player in product safety? I think they’re doing what they can with what they have. Shoddy product quality has been a common phenomenon with any developing country. Singling out China for this is kinda silly. You can’t expect a previously agrarian society of unskilled and largely uneducated workforce to magically understand first-world safety standards over night. The Chinese do not exist to cater to your every whim and desire. They’ve got worries and priorities of their own, just like Mexicans, Filipinos, Sri Lankans, etc. The reason why this question is also silly is because we can easily turn it around and ask how America, as THE economic giant, a responsible player in financial responsibility?

      Yet again (because I expect it), this isn’t deflecting, this is putting things in their rightful context. Your arguments and condemnations all depend on divorcing context from the equation. Why? This is not a realistic way of examining problems and working towards solutions. This is, however, an intellectually lazy way to vent your contempt and even racism.

      Is China currently practicing less censorship? Resoundingly yes. While this inevitably fluctuates, Chinese today enjoy far more access to information and discourse than ever before. You should go talk to Rebecca MacKinnon and other people who know better than you.

      Are Chinese becoming more tolerant, less xenophobic, less racist? As a whole? Yes. The opening up of China since Mao first closed it off has exposed the Chinese to far more foreigners and foreign sources of information and ideas than, again, ever before. If you’re upset that they’re not starry eyed all the time when they see foreigners, it’s probably because NOT EVERYTHING FOREIGN is good and positive. Is there still tolerance, xenophobia, and racism? Yes, just as there is ignorance and hate. But given your comments and those you seem to be siding with here, would my impression of you being intolerant and racist be any less legitimate than your impression of the Chinese?

      Simple answers to these current issues, instead of name calling, will give an indication if China is truly progressing in its 5,000 year culture.

      Likewise, you’d do well addressing my arguments instead of calling it “pompous bullshit”. Insofar as you refuse to hold yourself to the same expectations you demand of others, you deserve being called an idiot. The fact that you don’t HAVE answers to the above questions suggests that you’re not very informed about China. The fact that you think SIMPLE answers should suffice suggests that you’ll never be.

      Go ahead, call me pompous or an apologist. I’m used to it and every time I laugh because it really is the best comeback people like you can muster.

  • future Dongguan cancer victim

    Why does Kai take out a personal vendetta against anyone who disagrees with him? Just let it go, dude. You waste way too much of your energy this way.

    • http://cnreviews.com Kai

      Interesting, between the tone of the comments between myself and Jeremiah or lolly, you think I’M the one who has a personal vendetta? Why do you want me to let it go instead of them?

      • The John

        Hold up.

        I’m not a Kai fanboy. But, I will say, DUDE HAS A POINT. He is not just disagreeing to disagree. As someone that has studied Chinese history and philosophy, China HAS made a lot of great changes in it’s 5000 year history. Now, im not saying China is perfect. There were many set backs. Also, there are many problems to be faced as China develops. I think they mainly deal with balancing the development of human rights with economic development. Its a hard job. However, not all Chinese people are evil. That is just wrong to say…

        We can’t just look at a blog post and then say, “Hey all Chinese people are like that.” We can say that there maybe a problem with this kind of incidents happening in China, but we should use proof.

        It’s like saying all police officers are racist after the Obama comment. Its stupid generalization. Although, racial profiling happens a LOT in the states. Most Americans know that not all cops are racist.

  • lolly

    Hahaha! Hahaha!

    I can’t help but laugh at your responses. :)

    Your logic is elegant; your prose is beautiful.

    It would be very interesting to look at and study you.

    I wonder how do you tie your shoes in the morning?

    For some reason, I imagine you (like Andy in “Little Britain”) a little overweight and confined to a wheelchair. I understand your frustration.

    Anyway, Kai, take care of yourself and don’t let the “gang of four” (The Grudge, Yannick, cmfeirs, lolly) diminish your fervent desire to be a Chinese. If you wish hard, in your next life, you will come back a Chinese citizen but maybe a Uyghur minority.

  • Yin

    I know you all are smart people, but some of you are being intentionally daft.

    Five thousand years of history? So what. China is no younger or older than any other civilization in the world. The US wasn’t built out of a vacuum. It was built by Europeans. Europeans sure the hell don’t have a two hundred year history. Every step of Western society can be traced to some previous influence, all the way back to the Greeks and before. It’s just that Europeans changed the name of their countries every few hundred years or so, so you can’t claim some imaginary continuity bullshit but really, who cares? China wasn’t always called China, either. During the Qin it was called Qin. During the Han, Han. During the Tang, Tang. Ming, Ming. Qing, Qing. It’s only the particulars of Chinese historicity that has China claiming all past dynasties as part of the same lineage. They were really different countries all along, so in that respect, China is 60 years old.

    But a pro tip for those Europeans out there feeling self-righteous about themselves: Europe’s “good behavior” is also about 60 years old. Before that Europeans were stone cold killers, proud racists, and professional environment wreckers. Not that the rest of the world was any better (except on the last point), but there certainly wasn’t this liberal-humanist bullshit that people like Jeremiah is trumpeting nowadays. Slaves were kept in the US all the way up to 1865, which was only 40 years before China abolished it herself. Stray dogs were rounded up and drowned in a large metal cage (“animal control”) as recent as the early 1900s. Animal rights? Get real. All of this is a pretty recent phenomenon, to which end, we might as well ask, *in general*: so why did it take humanity 100,000 years before they started coming up with all this stuff?

    Bottom line: the modern world is a fluke. A deviation from the long, cold, apathetic history of human existence. There was little sustained moral progress in any part of the world for most of the last ten thousand years. Hell, the Greeks and the Warring States Chinese in 300 BC were better than the Medieval Europeans and Age of Fragmentation Chinese in 500 AD. In the post-World War II haze, liberal humanism has radically changed the way people (or at least some people) think about the world and themselves. But this has been a process largely limited to the West and its immediate allies. Elsewhere, the world continues to be a cold, dark place.

    It’s perfectly fair to say that China still has a long way to go, but that assumes something: that “there” is, in fact, the destination, as opposed to simply a momentary respite before the brutality of history resumes.

    • The Grudge

      Excellent and very refreshing comment. This is what I call putting things in perspective. True objectivity.

      I tend to think that reality is overrated anyways.

      A little bird told me that the brutality of history is about to resume…

    • http://cnreviews.com Kai

      Excellent comment. While I personally want to be a bit more optimistic, I really respect the cynicism and pessimism (or we could say realism).

      When we say China has a long way to go, I think we’re obviously defining the destination as whatever China is being measured against, usually “the West” or the “first-world” or America, Europe, Japan, Taiwan, etc.

      Interestingly, I think there are somewhat two schools of thought when it comes to “human progress” that is somewhat divided between “Asians” and “Westerners”. One school of thought is that there can be absolute progress. The other school is that humanity is cyclical, that we tend to fuck ourselves over time and time again, rise and fall over and over again. I reckon Yin and The Grudge fall into the latter?

      Again, seriously, great comment! In its own way, FUCKING BRILLIANT comment!

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»