Spring Festival Train Ticket Lines In Ningbo & Xian

47 Comments

1. Tom

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 3:37 pm

   First.

   3 bottles of Baiju, 234 packets of cigarettes, a laser pen, 3 spare pants, a taser and a psp is all you need for a queue that long.

   Reply
2. dace

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 4:36 pm

   Why is it that everybody ‘has’ to go home at CNY? How many foreigners do you know in China that only go home once every two years, or haven’t had Christmas at home for years? I know plenty!
   But when you point out to Chinese that this is the same situation, of course the answer is “no no no, you foreigners don’t understand” or “of course its diferent for foreigners, we are good to our parents and see them every year, but you foreigners have all gone to a different country! you’re so unfilial”.

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3. shopgirl

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 6:55 pm

   tjoohooo

   it is almost like when it’s sale at Walmart or Kohl’s after Thanksgiving Day!

   Reply
4. Bc

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 7:13 pm

   @dace:

   It’s funny that you brought up the comparison to Christmas. I am a Chinese living in the US, and 90% of my American friends in college go through many inconveniences with school work and expenses to go home for Christmas break, which greatly puzzles me to the same degree. I think you just have to come to terms with the fact that every culture has its own version of the holiday, and those that are traditional to that culture feel natural to honor it to that extent. As to us, well, we’re just among the minority, I suppose.

   But the real problem here isn’t the simple tradition shared by those people. If the government crooks and their relatives/accomplices aren’t so depraved to the point of exploiting such basic needs of the underprivileged and fatten their wallets through ticket scalping, the lines wouldn’t be as long, and there wouldn’t be such “news” to begin with. It’s nothing more than just another wreckage of this country’s ever polarizing political-economic structure.

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5. Gareth

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 7:57 pm

   4 Bc
   What is worse is the spring festival break represents a major disruption for manufacturers and exporters — China’s main form of income and this is only going to make it worse. Many of my colleagues are leaving for their home towns early next week because of the difficulty of getting tickets…

   this will stretch out the break to two weeks and the disruption into who knows how long.

   You really wouldn’t want to screw with the country’s productivity in the current economic climate but that is exactly what is happening.

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6. Kai

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 8:17 pm

   @ Gareth:

   I get what you’re saying but the simple response to your comment is: Would you ask Westerners to give up their Christmas holiday in an effort not to “screw” with their country’s “productivity?”

   Silly, right? About as silly as Chinese people judging Westerners as not being filial simply because they don’t visit their parents for a Chinese holiday they don’t celebrate.

   @ Bc:

   Good comment. Rock on.

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7. jamar

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 9:39 pm

   I wonder why the mainland rail company hasn’t gotten with the program and allow ticket sales over the phone or online? Guangdong people can apparently do this if they’re taking trains operated by Hong Kong’s MTR; a pity those elsewhere don’t have the option.

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8. fireworks

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 11:11 pm

   If I was a migrant worker in Ningbo, I’ll stash up with food, money, cigarettes, alcohol and find the private or unlicensed taxis to go back home to the county district if I can’t get those tickets from the train stations.

   Its a sea of people, how can anyone beat the hectic mad rush for the festive season.

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9. riceagain

   Saturday, January 17, 2009 at 11:12 pm

   @Jamar.. yeah the millions of migrant workers will be over the moon when they can book on their iPhones, problem solved!

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10. Jay K

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 2:02 am

    BC:

    i definitely agree with you man, especially the corruption in terms of scalpers.

    by the way, im not chinese; i went to tianjin last yr to vacation with my gf. the night before we were supposed to leave we went to the main train station to buy tix. we had asked for the fast train to take us back but she gave us the slowest one, and pretty much told us to buzz off (oh did i mention because there was a scalper buying shit lods of tickets by the counter window) and qhile in line i witnessed a fight between one of the scalpers and one of the passengers the police didnt even do anything except just throw the guy out, but one of the scalpers was still buying away the tickets..long story short we eventually got the fast train tickets after going to another line and waiting for another 1+ hr, and me using my laowai skills of acting dumb (meaning pretending i dont speak chinese and when trying to buy tix, show proof immediately of my passport) in english to talk and etc.

    i later asked my gf about this, i could see disappoint in her face in a sense of somewhat losing face about her country; i saw no sense of losing face over this, i did however think the fight was interesting while the cops took their slow ass time to walk over and break it up…i guess everyone is on the take?

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11. Peteryang

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 2:17 am

    proves again that this group of people need help the most, not tibetans.

    Free Migrant Workers!!!!

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12. Ronnie

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 3:13 am

    This happens only twice a year–before and after Chunjie. I don’t see any reason why the railroad transportation capacity should be doubled to accomodate an exclusively seasonal need while, for the most time of year, it would be over-supplying.

    I’m sure unpleasant things happen during the ordeal of getting a ticket. And i’m sure the presence of unethical scalpers makes this experience even worse. I do appreciate, no irony intended, the insight that extends beyond what are seemingly infrastructure and management problems. The ability to transform a social phenomenon into a fundamental issue of a country, either political or ideological, is something I earnestly desire.

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13. NL

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 4:40 am

    Free the migrant workers?

    Weren’t they freed in the ’80s?

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14. Fritz

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 5:43 am

    It seems to me that this would be a great opportunity for some dude with a bus ir a van or w/ever to offer charter trips! A bunch of people from a similar area, all pooling their money, no waiting in long lines, everybody wins!

    Reply
15. Scott Sykes

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 11:23 am

    I went to Beijing West Railway Station in Beijing a few days ago and got some video footage, there are many many people traveling for Spring Festival Chun Yun.

    Reply
16. jamar

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    @riceagain- you come to the weirdest conclusions. Cheap net-cafes are in abundance, as are payphones.

    Reply
17. Peteryang

    Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    Free the migrant workers?

    Weren’t they freed in the ’80s?

    ———

    technically they were freed in 1949, but technically they are still in trouble, so technically the government and us need to help them.

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18. NL

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 1:19 am

    Just wanted to make a glib remark about how for the first time in the 80s, the party allowed the peasants to move around after the communes were phased out, thus being ‘freed’.

    But anyway, I’d have said, ‘officially’ they were freed (or liberated) in ’49, ‘technically’ they were ‘freed’ (from the shackles of the collective) in the ’80s, now they need the gov’t to embrace them as something more than second class citizens. Take welfare, in that case, gov’t doesn’t need to ‘free’ them per se (or technically), but clasp them to its teat…

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19. Peteryang

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 10:12 am

    yeah the gov can start by lifting them from third class to second class, if not from fourth class to third class.

    however I think the real issue lies within the people, take my city for example, I live in beijing, theres always been descrimination against immigrating peasants because their poor manner and appearance, locals view them as a huge burden.

    to me, I honestly don’t like some of these low life forms, the area where I live was crowded and literally destroyed by them, they dump shits (yes I mean shits) and dead animals into a nearby river making all sorts of delibitating odor and the environment bureau had to construct fences and dispatch work boat to clean the riverbed but they somehow still keep doing it. and the streets are just PILED with litters from their business activities.

    but simply deporting or controlling them (theres already enough outrage about temprary residential permit) isn’t a top-notch solution, all these phenomenons trace down to one cause — uneven development.

    and as such, we need to put a brake on wealthy cities and begin focusing on rural regions.

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20. Fuller

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 10:20 am

    2006, I travelled down to the south of China during Spring Festival. No Chinese ability, no idea what I was facing. Had a fantastic time and everyone at the railway stations was so helpful to me.
    Last stop was Chongqing. Immediately on arrival I tried to purchase a ticket back to Beijing for 2 days later. After a lot of waiting, pleading, and playing dumb, I finally got a ticket.
    It was a hard seat ticket. I actually did get a seat. But it was a 36 hour train ride. The train carriage was so packed it was like playing klotskie just to go to the bathroom. It was a totally unforgettable experience that I never ever want to go through again in my entire life.

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21. Hammy

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 11:00 am

    “The name of the person who purchased the ticket should be printed on the train ticket or qualified identification document numbers!”
    Wow! That’s actually a pretty good idea. But the railroad ministry needs more motivation to reform and we probably won’t see any improvement for like 5 years to a decade. *sigh*

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22. Kai

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    To me, the main problem is not so much the amount of trains but the ticket scalpers and the government not effectively stopping it. Right, it DOESN’T make economic sense to sink money into more trains that wouldn’t see use throughout most of the year. However, it DOES add insult to injury when ticket scalpers are running wild and trains depart under-capacity while people outside are complaining that tickets for that train were “sold out.” I really do not think there is any excuse for the government or relevant authorities to NOT improve this situation of combating scalping other than the fact that they can’t be bothered to. And that’s fucked up.

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23. NL

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Exactly, it’s uneven development, but that problem is perpetuated when the government essentially refuses to acknowledge the existence of migrants in the cities. If the party doesn’t make moves to adequately accommodate them, migrants may well have to resort to shitting in a river. However, it’s easier said than done. Every developing country of the world has its urban under-classes.

    The problem with the CCP though, is you never know if they aren’t doing things they can’t do, or aren’t even trying to achieve things they can. The point about allowing scalpers is just one example of something they should be able to remove, but seemingly don’t.

    And it’s not so easy to just say development in the rural areas will help relieve the problems in the cities. Migrants move to the cities to get jobs because their labour isn’t needed on the farms. However, what this means is that new cities are being built in the rural areas. But it remains to be seen how effective they’ll be at equalising standards of living if not wages. One instance saw members of a town removed to make way for a new city. Those displaced farmers who’d lost their homes and farms were given small dwellings much like a barrack. If that’s all that can be provided for people with a clear ‘right’ to actually live in the city, it’s easy to see why migrant workers live in such poor and overcrowded conditions. Despite promises, their children were also refused access to the new school (for wealthier urbanites) and had to go to the lesser one, miles away, that had existed before the city.

    Yep, the migrants/peasants have it harsh, and the gov’t seems to want to keep it that way, for whatever reason, which is a shame considering the peasants in the fields were so instrumental to initial CCP accession.

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24. D

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Bought my GF airplane ticket – only twice the price of a train ticket.

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25. A

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Existence of scalpers prove only one thing: those tickets are priced too cheaply. There should be allowed market prices and the poorer could get subsidy from government AFTER buying the ticket

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26. paul tergeist

    Monday, January 19, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    here’s a country which can spend millions to acomodate for the olympics and manage the ticketing for an international event, but not capable of putting a fair train ticketing system in place for years..

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27. Peteryang

    Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 10:50 am

    @NL

    you are incorrect that the government wants to keep it this way. I am drawing a huge line between the central leadership and local governments, leaders in beijing have very promising and pragmatic ideas for rural improvement and I can see they push hard to make them work but local cadres and interests simply reject most if not all reforms.

    the local government is so protective and short-sighted that top leaders often have to go around the country in person or send special unit to supervise critical policy implementation, which is really sad.

    take this ticket sales for example, soon after Hu addressed this issue to Railway Ministry the Guangzhou train stations magically had alot redundant tickets, which says alot. I hear minister Liu’s in-law operates a network of “unofficial” sellers across the country who profit by reserving tickets for astronomical price.

    so there you see the real problem, conservative vested interests have bee delaying much needed reforms, and unfortunately the ccp needs them to stay in power.

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28. Kai

    Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    The problem I personally have with making distinctions between the “local government” and the “central government” is that it can be both a reasonable explanation and a reasonable excuse. Either way, the real problem still exists, and that problem is an inherent conflict of interest and mutual dependency for survival.

    I understand this is not easy to solve, but I feel the strategy of blaming the local government and presenting the central government in a sympathetic light tends to perpetuate a false hope in “enlightened kings.”

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29. wuxia

    Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    I feel this problem is deeply rooted not only in failure of government policies but in Chinese culture in general.
    Chinese politics are an intricate web of political interests, personal interests, and guanxi (what is the difference?).

    This lack of separation between those interests makes for a perfect recipe for corruption. Because the concept guanxi is so deeply rooted in Chinese culture corruption is really hard to avoid.
    Added to this is the Chinese business sense that is keen on avoiding rules in the most legal way possible (for every rule there are 1000 ways to get around it). With scalpers probably arguing why it is illegal for them to buy 100 tickets.

    Even if as a righteous government official you are able to cut through the web of interests and guanxi (linking the scheme you try to stop to the official above you) and stop the organized branches, there will be small entrepreneurs doing the same thing.
    TIC…everything is possible, nothing is easy.

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30. Peteryang

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 10:41 am

    @Kai

    I understand your concern, people ought to decide for themselves, but given the state of our nation, average citizens don’t typically have a say in politics so the only thing they can do is praying for a lenient king. in fact thats how its always been for thousands of years, and is ingrained in people’s genes.

    @wuxia

    you can’t be more precise, the overwhelming family value in this country is the primary drive for corruption, it leads me to think that if we have separation of power today, the three branches would converge back tomorrow.

    the premise of economics is that buyers and sellers make rational choice, and that requires free flow of information which we don’t have here, so the market is a wild and awkward battleground.

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31. Kai

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 11:56 am

    @ Peteryang:

    Right, so the question that only Chinese citizens can make for themselves is whether they prefer to be at the mercy of others or at the mercy of themselves. As you also state, there is a lot of sociological–dare I say “cultural”–inertia involved.

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32. Peteryang

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    the frustrating problem is chinese have been under imperial rule for too long, theres little sense of individualism and rights, people are too afraid to bargain with the government so when they have issues the first instinct is to find someone to rely on, which makes this place a decent breeding nest for authoritarianism.

    so it all boils down to the very people, there are just too many bumps and blocks on the road of this reform we need to get over with. Hu said modernization takes dozens of generations to achieve, I believe him on that one.

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33. zing

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Living under imperialism too long sounds more like a lazy excuse to justify your reasoning why change is slow. There’s plenty of revolutions against structure imperialism in the past however change still has been slow. Fundamental challenge is people are at different socio-economic levels. Maslov’s pyramid shows as more people are lifted out of poverty they’ll be less concerned with physiological needs and more with social needs; hence why the burgeoning middle class pushes for more rights while a rural farmer in Qinghai wouldn’t stress over freedom of speech anytime soon.

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34. Peteryang

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    @zing

    no its not an excuse, and I was just pointing out the issues at hand, heck I even dream china to be modern and democratic THE NEXT DAY but that won’t happen. and you can’t deny what I said, the culture, history and tradition, they are major encumbrance to reform.

    and you are right that we need enough middle class, people who naturally demand political participation, so then democracy can flourish. poor peasants who still struggle for survival are very unlikely to know their rights let alone voting.

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35. Hammy

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    First I don’t think that psychological hump really exist. Second, if it does exist, it is not bad at all in certain ways. The big thing that’s wrong about the Chinese government today is not that power is not distributed evenly. It’s that the ones holding the power is not worthy of that power. The ones that have the power is not competent, smart and most importantly collective minded. They only think of themselves, not the state. So the solution could be to redistribute the power to everyone, but it also could be to just select more worthy people to have the power through a fair process.

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36. zing

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Well then specify how culture, history and tradition is the major hinderence to reform. You said little sense of individualism is a problem but I can name half a dozen countries in Africa, middle east, central asia that are very individualized yet have authoritarian regimes. While Japan, S. Korea successfully embraced democracy with a collectivist culture. I believe the socio-economic situation is the major stepping stone.

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37. Kai

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    @ Hammy:

    They only think of themselves, not the state. So the solution could be to redistribute the power to everyone, but it also could be to just select more worthy people to have the power through a fair process.

    Um, isn’t that one and the same? Selections (or elections) of more “worthy” people is by itself a distribution of power, specifically the distribution into the hands of the voters or whoever is part of that “fair process.” The very idea of distribution of power is that no one person has a monopoly on the truth or what is “right” or “more worthy.”

    Moreover, your suggestion that “more worthy” people be in government is exactly the false hope in “enlightened kings” I mentioned earlier. The people in government and those who benefit from them feel they are plenty worthy to be there. Who are you to disagree? How are you going to disagree? You say they’re not doing enough, they say they’re trying. You say change them, they say you’re causing social instability. Don’t rock the boat, know your place, right?

    @ zing:

    Yes, that’s the prevailing Western policy towards China right now, the hope that engagement and subsequent rising economic prosperity will foster a rising middle class that will become more preoccupied with less tangible guarantees of rights and property. Good reference to Maslow as well.

    That said, there are reasonable arguments for what Peter is saying, in that specific cultural or historical experiences are indeed possible obstacles to rapid reform or change. This is what many Chinese intellectuals love arguing as well. After all, someone socialized to define themselves by their relationship to those around them is going to be somewhat different consciously to someone socialized to define themselves by their inherent and innate characteristics. I don’t think categorically ignoring these real differences is the right thing to do.

    On the other hand, I see these justifications or excuses in opposition to more rapid reform/change as a slippery slope. There comes a point in time where further “preparation” of the people (education, civic-mindedness, etc.) before entrusting them with further power becomes silly and you just need to let them learn through experience. Trial by fire as they say. Or perhaps learning by doing. Sink or swim. Of course, there’s going to be an adjustment period, as people come to terms with the power they have and how to use it, and that adjustment period is precisely what many Chinese cite as too dangerous without adequate preparation. They’re afraid the country would be torn apart before people figure out how to govern themselves. So, the current situation continues, where the “leaders” who “know better” largely make the decisions for the people (and are handsomely rewarded for it) while “waiting” for the people to be elevated until that one day when the leaders feel the people are ready. It is still all very Marxist, er Maoist.

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38. Peteryang

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    do I really need to elaborate this?? alright.

    our traditional family value taught by Confucius places elder above everyone else, in a sense that the grandest father has authority over all family activities, feudal rulers exploit this sentiment by claiming himself to be heaven’s son aka father of all so he may rule with cultural justification and unfortunately some people passtionately believe this so they accept to be enslaved.

    futhermore, this results in collectivism in which each individual must submit to interests of the whole, now this may sound very democratic but again, the rulers are often the ones who decide for the “whole” so the ruled mass obey his will instead of the real collective interest.

    so I think the true culprit is that chinese rulers are extremely apt at exploiting the culture, but not the culture itself.

    and I didn’t say individualism cannot exist in an autocratic society, in fact individualism and liberalism make the autocracy difficult to sustain, but can still be sustained by force if the dictator knows what he is doing.

    you said bout Japan and S.Korea, well, all I can argue is these two countries, when they adopted liberal democracy, successfully separated culture from politics.

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39. colin

    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    thank goodness SARS is not on a rampage right now, think about how fast it would spread through those crowds…..

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40. Shanghairocks

    Friday, January 8, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    ping….ping….ping….ping….ping….

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41. zongzong

    Sunday, April 10, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    我每年回家往返也是这样，那怕他是在邯郸，一个地区而已；
    这就是为什么中国迫切需要高速铁路

    Every year I come home from the same way, even if it is in Handan, an area only;
    This is why the urgent need for high-speed railway in China

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42. CC

    Friday, January 27, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    I’m impressed, Chinese people actually queuing and appearing to be quite civil rather than the usual ignorant pushing in.

    Reply