Shanghainese Radio Host Tells Listener To Get Lost

There have always been a lot of conflict between Shanghainese people and people from other areas of China. Shanghainese people think non-Shanghainese people are crude and uncivilized. Other people often think Shanghainese are weak and arrogant. One common complaint by non-Shanghainese people is that Shanghainese people will often refuse to speak Putonghua (Mandarin) and insist on speaking Shanghainese, even when they know there are people around who cannot understand Shanghainese. Shanghainese people defend themselves and ask why they cannot speak their own language with their own people.

Shanghai radio hosts Xiao Jun and Xiao Chang

From KDS and Mop:

Radio hosts Xiao Jun and Xiao Chang

Listener: “I beg you guys to stop speaking Shanghainese.” Expert emphasized that [radio/television] hosts should pay attention to their words because they have influence.

December 23, 8:47, Shanghai radio station 动感101 《音乐早餐》 [Moving 101's "Music Breakfast"?] program was broadcasting. Hosts Xiao Jun and Xiao Chang were using Shanghainese to chat and joke with the audience during a break in the music.

An audience sent an SMS text message to the show’s hotline: “I beg you guys to stop speaking Shanghainese, I hate you Shanghainese people!”

Xiao Jun, during the program, then said in a serious tone: “…this audience member, please roll yourself into a ball and then roll yourself out of this city you so hate or the presence of of these people you so hate.”

Oriental Morning Post Reporter Li Wei

As a result of saying on the air “roll yourself into a ball and then roll yourself out”, a young radio host’s words became a hot internet meme on Shanghai discussion forums.

Audience [Reactions]

Reaction 1: “Talking to wai di ren like this is even more hateful than swearing.”

Reaction 2: “Coming to Shanghai requires that you love Shanghai from the bottom of your heart.”

Comments on KDS: (a Shanghainese BBS discussion forum)

Lucifer:

Ding Xiao Jun, [those with] low characters should get lost.

痒西西:

Role model~

肢解娃娃:

Grass mud horse, support the host.

100x.

猪来猪往:

SB YP die and get lost.
All die and get lost.
Mother**

珰珰老豆:

What Xiao Jun said was reasonable and mannered, not preachy or angry, his method and form both proper.

失忆的天蝎:

One of my New Shanghainese [someone who has moved to Shanghai] co-workers says she especially likes listening to Shanghainese, says it is especially nice to listen to.

宽带山淫匪:

What a mess.

The conflicts in the past two years have been getting more and more intense.

喽罗甲:

Go to Beijing and don’t let Beijing people speak Beijing hua.
Go to Shandong and don’t let Shandong people speak Shandong hua.
Go to the Northeast and don’t let Northeasterners speak Northeastern hua.
Go to Tibet and don’t let Tibetans speak Tibetan.

Would people try?

Probably only because Shanghainese people are easy to bully?

Shanghai radio hosts Xiao Jun and Xiao Chang

Shanghai radio hosts Xiao Jun and Xiao Chang

Comments on Mop:

lolita232:

I simply dislike Shanghai people, so what? Just look at his face~~~ truly without character. In reality, Shanghai people are country people.

好奇的余爷爷:

Regional discrimination is tantamount to racism, to neo-Nazism. We absolutely must not allow this kind of ideological trend to occur, we must smash it, fight, fight, fight!

玩似的:

We’re all Chinese people, is this necessary?! Sigh. If Shanghainese looked back two generations, half of them all moved there from elsewhere! Sigh! Only by uniting can we be strong! Why insult ourselves and let others laugh at us?

冷眼笑红尘:

I’m relatively in agreement with what he said.

If you went to America, you probably couldn’t say, “Can you guys please not speak English, I hate you guys”, right? Even if you said it, how would Americans react?

Each place has each place’s culture, and if you can’t adapt to it, then roll up.

CC银翘片:

There was sense to it, but it was a little extreme. Wouldn’t simply ignoring this SMS text message be enough? Creating hype.

jackstraw8636:

“Xiao Jun: Actually, I think this is a very ridiculous thing. You couldn’t go to Japan and say to Japanese people, ‘Can you guys not speak Japanese, I hate you Japanese people’… Since we’re all Chinese people, is it necessary to disrespect other people’s culture? I trust these kind of people would not be respected wherever they go.”

With regard to what he said here, first Shanghai is just one city of China. Comparing a city to Japan, does he think Shanghai has already become independent outside of China? This is splitting China, and it is even more unforgivable than swearing ; Next, being willing to compare oneself to Japan, this clearly shows that he has already lowered himself to the same level of Japan. Everyone can feel sorry for his behavior.

卖身葬花:

The country takes everyone’s money and uses it to develop Shanghai, so when the entire country’s citizens ask to go to Shanghai to get rich, they don’t go to Shanghai because they like Shanghai.

251134067:

Shanghai is **. Even though I am in Shanghai too, I keep a certain attitude towards Shanghai people: However far they can get lost is how far they should get lost.

Shanghai people spend all day saying this isn’t good, that isn’t good, this and that about where you’re from, this and that about where he’s from, and how it is so backward. Actually, these Shanghainese have ** never even left Shanghai before. This bunch of B [屄 bi, "cunts"].

城管UU:

Yes, that person who sent the text message was wrong…the host was also at the end of his patience. Anyone would be the same in his position.

天堂の猫:

Shanghai people, stop always thinking of yourselves as China’s economic center. As everyone in the country says, enjoying preferential policies, there’s nothing special about modern Shanghai. So however far Mars is, just let those Shanghai people who talk all day thinking they are so dignified get lost that far!…

Of course, I don’t have any prejudice against ordinary Shanghai people.

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  1. shanghai is the place to be!

  2. Why is everyone here wants to be the first to post?

  3. I specifically waited not to be the first

  4. “Shanghai: love it or leave it.”

    Looks like America’s most xenophobic hicks have some unexpected colleagues in Shanghai.

    • That actually makes alot of sense.

      If you don’t like a particular area to live at, why live there???

      If you don’t like a your job, why work there? why not switch?

      If you don’t like a particular person, why hang out with them?

      • …so this is why so many chinese go to other countries?
        …so this is why everyone is a CEO?
        …so this is why you have inlaws?

        …so this is why we are all millionaires?

        • This isn’t about everyone else, it’s about you and you only.

          If you don’t like the country you are in, you can go somewhere else, you have choices of school, marriage, job as way of getting to other country, heck, you can smuggle there if you really want to go there.

          If you don’t like your job or you want to be CEO, start your own company.

          If you don’t want inlaws, then don’t get married.

          If you are not a millionaire, then work toward it, save $1 a day and you’ll eventually get there!

          If people want to complaint about things they can’t change, such as the weather, I am okay with that.

          But if people complaint about shit they can change, they should just go ahead and make the change rather than complaint.

          • some of us have familes, some of us have responsibilities.

            I hate my job, but why am I still currently working there?
            Cause I have a kid and wife. getting a job at a diferent company isnt going to happen overnight.

            some people are lazy and dont do anything about it, and there are those who do something about it, but are also a bit on the vocal side.

  5. they’re scum and most of them are migrants themselves only earlier!!!

  6. HI I AM BAAAAACK!!!!!
    WELL , go to HONGKONG AND TELL THEM YOU HATE THEM CAUSE THEY SPEAK CANTONESE.
    GO TO THE U.S. AND TELL THE MEXICANS LIVING THERE THAT THEY SHOULDNT SPEAK SPANISH

  7. I reckon if more people tried learning Shanghaiese this problem would be less prevailent.

    If you don’t like the sterotype don’t encourage it by acting like a douche bag on T.V. Do something about it.

  8. I thought this country allows people to say and do whatever they want as long as they have the money. Shanghai, HK, and TW Chinese people are the ones with the most money.

  9. Putonghua is called putonghua because it’s the dialect that most everyone in China can understand. It makes perfect sense to want the host to speak putonghua while being a radio show in China. I don’t know if the “I hate you” part was serious or not, but it was a bit overboard.

    However the Shanghai host reply seems 100% serious, and it certainly was rude and not fulfilling the role of a radio host. A radio show IS its listeners. Listeners respond and give their opinions to the host. It’s the host’s role to take it into consideration for the sake of their show. Otherwise their show won’t be able to expand since they’re clearly losing devoted listeners at this rate.

    • The listener was rude in the first place, as a private channel I think the host has complete freedom to use whatever dialect they wish, perhaps their channel wants to target a particular demographic. “Roll up and roll out” isn’t gonna win him any congeniality award, but the host’s only responsibility is to the owner (within reason) and some personality won’t hurt the ratings.

      • Well, Chinese radio haven’t had the likes rush limbaugh. So comments tends to be very PC. however, with this start I fully expect a Chinese rush limbaugh in the not too distant future. (wait to see a hate fest of Shanghai vs. everyone else, and Henan vs everyone else, Dongbei… etc you get the idea)

      • Listener was rude, it is true, but the host should have follow a rule of ethics and constrain himself. Unless you wanna tell me that radio and tv hosts in your place just say what in their mind.

        • Many radio and tv hosts do say what is on their on mind, and often market it as a feature of their program. I am not sure the host has any ethical responsibilities to be cordial on the airwaves, so long as what he doesn’t incite people to commit crimes.

    • Was it a nationally broadcast show or for Shanghai? Likely Shanghai area only. Does the show normally have banter in Shanghai dialect? Most certainly. It’s like a vegetarian walking into a McDonald’s and bitching that they serve meat. Yeah, no shit they serve meat, fuck off.

  10. @C: Don’t you think the show is aimed specifically for the Shanghaiese audience? It’s a perfectly good business strategy to aim to a certain portion of the market.

    I live in the United States, and I believe in the freedom of speech. The radio host should be speak whatever the language/dialect he prefers.

    • But aren’t we talking about how Shanghai is expanding and that it will no longer be strictly Shanghainese people living there that can understand the dialect?

      The host can speak whatever he wants but it’s not going to gain him more and more listeners. Especially by responding in that manner.

      (Oh and I live in the United States too. Don’t know what you were trying to say with that haha)

      • It will certainly gain him a loyal following of local Shanghai people, won’t it? With how many millions of Shanghai-ese speakers, that doesn’t sound like a bad strategy.

  11. i speak yangzhounese,mandarin,and some cantonese.i do not think that hosts should speak putonghua in local programs.the dialects make the programs more colourful and more interesting.china has the most local languages in the world,let alone languages spoken by minorities such as tibetan,korean,mongolian,uyghur and so on.i am very worried when my mongolian classmate told me that he could not speak mongolian now though he spoke it while he was a child.the school do not teach them mongolian any longer,the teaching language is mandarin.

  12. Well, give everyone the opportunity to learn Shanghai Wu dialect. Then no one would complain.

    In fact, PRC only officially supports Putonghua. India uses Hindi but they have regional official languages such as Tamil. China is not like India, it uses one language which is based on the Beijing dialect.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_with_official_status_in_India#Languages_currently_used_In_Indian_states_and_union_territories

  13. OK I don’t know what this radio show is about (Or the radio station). Here in UK. You have all kinds of different language radio targeted different kind of people.

    But one thing for sure is – you won’t find a English speaking channel suddenly talking in Irish!

    Also those are different LANGUAGE ! Shanghaiest is not a language, it’s only a dialects. (So those – go to Japan and tell people not to speak Japanese – INVALID – fucking morons)

    “I hate you” sounds very childish.

    I think roll up and roll out – that’s pretty offensive. Especially coming out from a public figure.

    • “But one thing for sure is – you won’t find a English speaking channel suddenly talking in Irish!”

      You would in Ireland!

      “Also those are different LANGUAGE ! Shanghaiest is not a language, it’s only a dialects. (So those – go to Japan and tell people not to speak Japanese – INVALID – fucking morons)”

      Lingustically, Shanghai-ese is more different from Mandarin than Portuguese is from Spanish.

      “I think roll up and roll out – that’s pretty offensive. Especially coming out from a public figure.”

      In London, any day of the week, you could hear radio hosts say FAR harsher things to stupid callers.

  14. completely off topic, but the host guy is kinda cute, no?

    naturally, shanghainese locals have the right to speak their dialect. but the host could definitely have handled it better than declaring the ‘roll up and roll out’ comment on air.

    though points to him for being straight to the point lol

  15. i think he just mistook his profession a level to the ground by airing those sentiments on air. in other places, i bet he should have been cautioned.

  16. Speaking your own dialect its fine and its something to be proud of but Radio host Xiao Jun used swearing words to reply His listeners…..just ignoring them was enough rather swear. Being proud is not being rude to others.

  17. I think a better translation for 滚蛋 is ‘fuck off’ rather than ‘get lost.’ At least in Beijing, it’s considered a rather harsh thing to say, perhaps not QUITE as strong as fuck off, but certainly stronger than get lost.

  18. I think China should definitely maintain its dialects, but the government is right in thinking it could be useful for everyone to speak 标准 Chinese. But for a local radio show – he should be able to speak Shanghainese if he wants!

    A multiple dialect problem doesn’t exist in the US so we really have no grounds for comparison – all we can do is remember that maintenance of individual cultures is important, even in the light of economic success.

  19. Xiao Chang is sexy. She should be on the telly, not wasted on radio.

    I bet she grinds like a collie with tapeworm.

  20. I am from zhejiang Province,and now in Shanghai,my opinion is:
    It is a local program, if you don’t like the dialect, you have the option to change channals, but never have the right to require a change of the program itself since majority listeners who are shanghainese feel better that the host can say some Shanghai dialect in the program. However the host seemed to be a little bit impolite to this guy indeed.

    Like any cities which have its own dialect,shanghai of course can have its own dialect radio program. It’s not a big deal.

  21. It’s funny the person askes the host not to speak Shanghainese, then say’s, “I hate you Shanghainese people.” The host had every right to say what he sad. And for that ignorant person that sent the text, its really simple dumbass, “IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE RADIO HOST SPEAKING SHANGHAINESE, DON’T LISTEN TO THE RADIO STATION.” Your in Shanghai, its a Shanghainese station!

  22. I have discovered after reading CHINASMACK for a while the the good people of China are more PREJUDICE against people of their own country and race than any other country in the world. I have made a point to investigate this on the web so I can be honest in this assessment and comment. Second would be Africa. How can you people HATE each other so much and yet state how strong your country is? You can’t be strong as a nation until you can be strong as a community. Please, some help me understand this. This world is falling apart and stupid people are being so petty as to worry about who should speak this or that language. The earth is on the edge of a rebirth. Wake up!

  23. My two cents? Shanghai radio should obviously reflect their listeners’ tastes and if that means speaking in a local or regional dialect, that’s just good business sense. Why this is, can be explained by an example of expecting Hong Kong radio stations to speak in mandarin; how much local ad revenue do you think they would generate? Probably very little, as most HK listeners prefer to listen in their local Cantonese. So knowledge and catering to your customer’s tastes is good business practice.

    That said, while the caller was wrong to have insulted the station, Shanghai (both the city and its people), and the Shanghai dialect in general, the radio host, as a professional, should not have taken his bait. He should have just blown him off with a “thank you for your comments, and the next caller is…”

    The implications would have been clear, that the station really doesn’t care for comments such as his and won’t even grace it with any sort of real response. Sometimes ignoring an insult is the best insult.

  24. I’ve heard the real clip of this radio program of the day. I understand that the radio host was only SUGGESTING whose non-Shanghainese,who don’t like the city and the language but choose to stay, to leave. Not to all the non-Shanghainese.

    And actually, almost all radio programs are in Mandarin, not in Shanghainese. Is it allowed sometimes to talk slangs or jokes in Shanghainese just because this is in Shanghai? I guess this is not a big issue.

    The person who commented to HATE it is really exaggerated.

  25. Fucking mandarins. Fun fact: Hakka is the highest form of Chinese. Let me feel your lowly peasant rage.

  26. well the listener didn’t have to say “i hate shanghainese people.”

  27. look at the girls face. i wanna cum all over it, because i’m proud.
    i’m sick and tired of everyone speaking chinese. learn engrish

  28. As a European it’s weird. Would I go to France and phone up a radio host and say: “Please speak English”? And it is easier to move from England to France legally than within China. There should be some programs in Putonghua and some in Shanghainese and everyone should be happy. Or not?

  29. I have to disagree with Fauna on this:

    “One common complaint by non-Shanghainese people is that Shanghainese people will often refuse to speak Putonghua (Mandarin) and insist on speaking Shanghainese, even when they know there are people around who cannot understand Shanghainese.”

    I don’t think that’s common at all.

    I’ve been living in Shanghai almost nine years, and I have to say that in my experience, this is just not true. I’ve asked “waidiren” living here, they agree that this has not been true for years now.

    In mixed groups, Shanghainese usually speak Putonghua.

  30. The China government made Shanghai a special region is because of the place, not because of its people.

    Shanghainese, please take note.

    • Well, if you’ve ever been to Quebec and dealt with their attitudes (they don’t think they’re Canadians, but rather above them), it really isn’t all that surprising. Every region has a claim to their own unique brand of panache (no matter how obscure or disingenuous)and each proceed with an absolute sense of entitlement because of it. Shanghai, being an arguably storied city with an admittedly wild history, probably feels more entitled than most. Shanghai may be special in terms of government policies, but it too, remains special in the hearts of many people, myself included.

    • Thank you for making Shanghai a special region, the china government. Thank you for carry on the attitude KMT had. Please make Shanghai a more real special region like HK.

  31. Hey Chinamates, Happy New year!
    I think the Xiao Jun reaction is “Normal” inside China.
    Let us be honnest. Every where in China, you hear native people “BenDiRen”, proudly speaking their local language. In Shanghai there is not TV Channel with “shanghainese speaking program” all long day. But In guangzhou, they do, in ShanDong they do, in XiZhang(Tibet) they Do….
    So why to considere shanghainese as an exception?

    “WaiDiRen” as well as “WaiGuoRen”, actually are not polite expressions, but they are so usefull in chinese daily language that, almost nobody feel offensed from that.
    This is a Part of “China’s HARMONIOUS LIFE”.

    Success and Happiness to everybody, BenDiREn, WaiDiRen and WaiGuoRen..

  32. Why are Shanghai people so damn proud? They’ve just been lucky to have been born in a prosperous city. Anything good in Shanghai has come from the waidiren and foreigners developing this shit hole. Look at all the buildings on the Bund or all the nice parks. All from foreigners. Shanghai people speak a god awful bird language and the men all have long fingernails.

    • When I watch ‘empire of the sun’, I sometimes cheer on the Japanese.

      Is this wrong?

    • 1.The fingernails is a chinese thing. Hainan, Guangdong etc..many have this as well.
      2. WHo cares what language… this whole argument is gay.
      3. SHanghai was where the laowais were welcomed first. Yes, the guys here are pussies…but they are kind of smart in the long run. Nobody else wanted to deal with the laowais right? So the shangbangers did and now the have the reward. All others are jealous.
      4. If you’re going to talk about useless cities, please talk about BEIJING. They make nothing yet have high per/capita income and every convenience available in the middle kingdom.

    • did we pay you? the truth is, for generations, those proud Shanghainese fed you.

  33. The problem with Chinese these days is that they think they are gifts to the world. In Singapore, the Chinese migrant workers insist on speaking Mandarin with everyone, even the native population. Some natives were even berated for not learning Mandarin.

    • Gotta love it, Chinese now think and act like the average shitty American tourists; looks like we made it now, China, LOL…

    • Hmm…rude that Chinese people in Singapore insist on speaking probably the only language they know, one of the official languages of Singapore, second only to English, spoken by 70% of the native population. Somebody better stop them before they demand to speak Spanish in South America or Arabic in the Middle East, I don’t know what it is they are up to but in the mean while I am going to get really upset over it.

      • lol no offence but you are sort of going off track here.

        We are talking about China and its people not some foreigner in China.

      • Even though Mandarin is one of the official languages of Singapore, it is NOT the mother tongue of most of those Chinese speakers… that would be Hakka or Minnan.

        • Actually Mandarin is spoken at home by twice as many people as other Chinese languages/dialects, but in any case my point is would you fault the migrant workers for using Mandarin instead of learning another language? English is not the mother tongue in Hong Kong is it somehow inappropriate for someone to speak it there instead of learning Cantonese?

        • Actually Mandarin is spoken at home by twice as many people as other Chinese languages/dialects

          Just to be clear, I am referring to homes in Singapore.

  34. I do understand y ppl used to create some stories bout shgese, jealously indeed

  35. Wai di ren are jeaolus of Shanghainese, that’s it, because Shanghai is not China. As a Shanghailander I demand more autonomy for this great city that we, foreigners, contributed massively to establish in the past, while for the Chinese long and great civilizations, it was just a fishing village. Shanghainese should have the right to speak their own language and adopt their own customs..we already had to bear those country men devoted to that Mao shit before, why we should accept this new invasion?

    • WTF are you smoking dude? Seriously its just common sense to speak Pu Tong Hua while your audience are the masses… its the basics of being a host and its just standard language.

      …. “Roll youself out”? wtf? radio show hosts are not bad mannered rock stars.

      I’m from Shanghai too and I know the different types of attitude they give to wai di ren…. Everyone gets a bit of hate from the crowd, if he cant even take that sort of comment and have to be such a fag on stage then he should GTFO and stop putting shame over those Shanghainese with good manners.

      • Been to Shanghai and can say that Shanghainese are damn arrogant and proud. Even the wai di ren are influenced by this attitude. Seriously, Shanghai isn;t a city that is very nice to be in.

  36. It’s not a suitable discussion topic for foreigners who don’t have any idea on the dispute between Shanghainese & Waidiren. It’s not simply a “Should radio host use local dialect” question.
    Actually there are many popular dialect TV/radio programs in other Chinese cities, and never received any complaints from non-locals. This story can only happen in Shanghai.
    I’m on neither side in this story. The audience is too sensitive, and the host is disrespectful. And all their improper words rooted in the dispute between Shanghainese & Waidiren. It’s been going on for decades. I wonder if we can we put an end to it before Palestinians shake hands with Israelis.
    Shanghainese blame Waidiren for being rude/uncultivated. Maybe yes. But why these rude/uncultivated “pumpkins” don’t have such a dispute with Beijingese/Cantonese/***nese? Why only Shanghainese? Come down from the roof please. If you are really so “cultivated/civilized”, could you bravely take the first step?

    • I’m afraid it’s the same situation in Beijing and Guangzhou. Shanghai is just the preference of the media. BTW, let me ask you back? Why Cantonese can have their TV/Radio but Shanghainese can’t?

  37. this is pretty standard “your a victim of your own success” thing. I believe it happens to most big cities. but i do agree that theres a line to be crossed.

    look the listener sent that message through text. the host couldve choose not to air it and just shut it, but apparently he needs to flex his dick out so he announced it on air and added his opinion on it.. hes an ass if you ask me.

  38. i will stay rolled in Shanghai just to piss this guy off….btw, when will he be fired?

  39. What’s the big deal? Why can’t the xiang xia ren pick up the local dialect?

    I wonder what will happen if someone calls up a radio in Hong kong and demand the host to stop speaking the Cantonese dialect. The host will probably say the same thing.

    The arrogance of the Shanghai people thing, I think that is only because Shanghai is made up of mostly the wealthier people from other parts of China. With today’s expensive real estate market that is even more so. I find the people who newly immigrated to Shanghai to be a lot more arrogant about where they live, even if they can’t speak Shanghai dialect. But of course, the most arrogant people are the expats who constantly whine about how shitty China is and how they are above China, but still choose to live there anyway.

    • You got the wrong idea. The issue is not about the guy speaking in Shanghainese dialect, it is about his reply. If your country’s anchorman or women tell you to go and eat shit, what do you think will happen? I am assuming that you are in the states and not in China.

      • Yes I am in the States right now, but I have a second home in Shanghai and go back there on a regular basis. Have you ever listened to talk shows in the US before? The concept of “shock jock” is nothing new. If anything ALL of the US mega radio show hosts, let it be the right wing political hacks like Rush Lambaugh or Glenn Beck, or “entertainment” jocks like Howard Stern, they all berate their callers on a regular basis far worse than what this Shanghai radio host did.

        Keep in mind that we are talking about a radio host here, not Shanghai TV or national news.

  40. They should speak Mandarin since their mandate is to broadcast in Mandarin. I listened to the radio online just now and they were speaking Mandarin. If that was a Shanghainese show he would have told the caller to listen in at another time. If they want a Shanghainese show they should take it up with management. In the West the broadcasters would be fired / reprimanded for unprofessional behavior.

    A lot of the problems happen in Shanghai is because the authorities don’t set aside time slots for local dialect programming on radio / TV stations. In Guangzhou they have a Cantonese programming and Cantonese TV shows produced in Guangzhou.

    Unfortunately Shanghainese programming is unlikely to happen because there is no competition. They would not get the approval. In Guangzhou they have no choice. If you don’t offer Cantonese programming people will listen/watch Hong Kong stations.

    In addition, the authorities in Shanghai are too busy trying to make Shanghai the “center” of China and preservation of Shanghainese language is a low priority until now.

  41. What Xiao Jun said was not “abuse of words”, but loneliness.

  42. Shanghai people are good at business, art, and literature but terrible at war. This is true of the Wuyue/Jiangnan area in general.

    Lin Yutang (a southerner) laid it out pretty clearly. “The northerner is essentially a conqueror. The southerner is essentially a trader.” Northerners (including northern non-Chinese nomads) provided the emperors for just about every Chinese dynasty in history. Southerners, however, provided most of the scholar officials for the last thousand or so years.

  43. WEll i do miss how shanghai looks every spring festival came, when all people from other cities went back to where they belong, i believe most of people found the difference .

  44. who would want to learn that fucking pig squeal language of Shanghai anyway. It sounds so damn awful that I would prefer to listen to a dance troupe of cantonese men farting repeatedly than hear a Shanghainese speak one sentence of his repulsive language.

  45. It’s sad that people hate for no more then something like this.

    The completely open handed need to divide the world around “them” and “us” is powerfully a deep rooted need for everyone. Even if a person isn’t truly aware of the reasons it comes down to a desire to simply think highly of oneself, family, organization, groups and so on. Too lift up one’s esteem and be a part of a distinctive group, like the winning team. Playing up the qualities of their group and denigrate the attributes of others so that the individual, or group can feel better about itself.

    Social Identity is a natural need to categorize, or split people into groups. This grouping is just as “them” and “us”, the “in-group” and the “out-group”. These categories can be of geopolitical importance nationally, religion, language, race or seemingly inconsequential as handedness, hair color, eye color, height or class.

    For what ever the reasons once a division of separation is made, the inferences and projections of the group or individuals begins to occur almost immediately. This creates a following the leader mentality and others tend to think more highly of people of the in groups rather then the out groups. A tends to feel that others in the in-group are similar to ones self in ways that may have little to do with the original criteria to split the groups. They find their own reasons to fuel their belief in the need to be better then the out group.

  46. Why is people hating Shanghai, it is the whore capital of CHINA, that place is where womens love to sell themselves out!!! oh yea BABY!! come to me!! me love you very long time!! want to learn English? come baby!! I teach you one english word for every night you sleep with me.

  47. People living in Shanghai, whose native language is a form of the Wu dialect, should not be forced to learn a different language just so they can listen to the radio or watch television. But in any country, the coastal areas are where export businesses are located, and in China, while the majority of people speak the Mandarin dialect, except for Manchuria, China’s entire coastline is where people speaking the other dialects live. So it is not surprising many people are moving there who feel they already know China’s real language.

  48. Shanghai people are just pigs. It’s a pity it’s the city most foreigners come to first. It’s the place with the greediest, gold digging, annoying, nagging, women. It’s got the weakest, most arrogant people. At least in the other areas when you ask people to to please speak Putonghua, they try. The Shanghai people think they are so good that they don’t need to. Arrogant people.

  49. Chinese people get shit because China holds a prominent position in the world. Same with America. When you’re at the top, you’re fodder for resentment and knee-capping from those who see themselves below. You are the measure.

  50. Average American tourists are ignorant, insensitive to foreign cultures, self centered, arrogant, rude and crude….just like these Shanghairen douche bags.

    You are a prime example.

  51. Seems like you guys know nothing about Shanghai…. the Shanghainese has always looked down on Wai Di Ren since my parents’ youth days…..

    It’s nothing new

  52. Jones, what? It’s okay to give Chinese people shit, even unfair and unreasonable shit just because this is a website about China? What? It’s only okay to mention Americans if the website is about America? You’re an American commenting about China on a website about China published in English to be made accessible for Americans talking with people from around the world, including Americans, about issues that are relevant, applicable, and MATTER to everyone in the world, INCLUDING AMERICANS. Why CAN’T Americans be invoked? Why must Americans be allowed to spew shit on Chinese here without push-back? This is the same line of reasoning as “you can’t talk shit about us unless you’re one of us.” Don’t you hate it when the Chinese use it? Stop using it then. Stop demanding artificial exclusion and protection for Americans, especially not on the basis of this being, omigod, chinaSMACK.

    THINK.

  53. Good one Kai…

  54. The difference is America does not scream out like a cat was stepped on the tail every single time when some other country try to “attack” them with the “free speech” like “glorious China” does, and what worse is we are not even in a prominent position in Asia yet.

  55. Jones,

    First, I appreciate your remorse for being insulting to me. Thanks.

    Next, I understand your sensitivity to Americans being shit upon just like I understand Chinese people’s sensitivity to being shit upon. It isn’t that I don’t recognize when either gets shit upon UNFAIRLY, because I do. At the same time, people in prominent positions get more attention than those who don’t and this is one example of that happening.

    For example, it sucks that celebrities are hounded by paparazzi, but there’s only so much those celebrities can complain. At a certain point, they have to accept that they’re getting what their life decisions, even their success, has brought them. Likewise for Chinese and Americans.

    This website is an international forum where people of different ethnicities, races, and nationalities are discussing the Chinese. There is no reason to expect anyone’s ethnicity, race, or nationality to escape getting dragged into the fray, ESPECIALLY when people start indulging in insulting, condemning, or explaining things on ethnic, racial, or national terms. People, not just Chinese, are definitely liable to mention, involve, or drag in other nationaities, ethnicities, or races in reference to, relation to, or juxtaposition with China and the Chinese.

    I can’t speak for ralphrepo and what exactly he meant by his comment, but I will tell you why his comment didn’t make me bat an eyelid whatsover. I’ll try to explain why it fits into the context of this post, at least to me. ralphrepo said:

    Gotta love it, Chinese now think and act like the average shitty American tourists; looks like we made it now, China, LOL…

    This post is about cultural insensitivity and a clash of cultures. I’m not sure if ralphrepo is saying the listener who said s/he hates Shanghai people is like “the average shitty American tourist” or if the radio DJ was. Since he specified “tourist”, I’m inclined to think he’s comparing the listener, as a “wai di ren” in Shanghai, to be like an “American tourist”.

    What is the popular conception of American tourists? Well, that they’re ethnocentric and insensitive to disrespectful of local customs and culture when they travel abroad. Of course not all American tourists are like that, but American tourists have earned that image (and some have suffered under it), just as Chinese manufacturers have earned the image amongst many average consumers of offering questionable quality.

    So, I interpreted ralphrepo’s tongue-in-cheek comment as joking that China has now “made it” (like America) because some Chinese people are behaving (in his mind) like Americans (on some level).

    I don’t think anything about ralphrepo’s comment suggests an inferiority complex, which is what you immediately accused. If anything, it looks more like he thinks it is funny that Chinese people are behaving like this, as if they’ve made it (which they haven’t, if anyone is talking about “making it”). I think you’re throwing around “inferiority complex” too carelessly here.

    You think it is odd and random that Americans get mentioned. However, I don’t. The reason why was explained in several of the responses I’ve made in the recent comments where you complain about Americans getting mentioned, including my explanation above of what “point” I myself saw in ralphrepo’s comment. I don’t see how his comment can be reduced to “merely stating that American tourists are ‘shitty’.” As I’ve stated in previous responses to you, I think you tunnel-vision into any mention of “American” here without stepping back and trying to figure out how the “American” is being used to illustrate a larger point.

    Did it make any sort of attempt at providing an example as to why the American tourists are “shitty”, and how that relates to the Shanghai host and/or the listener? It’s just a random comment that someone made just because, I guess, because…well I have no idea why.

    I hope I explained it well enough above how it relates to the Shanghai host and/or listener. No, his comment doesn’t explicitly provide an example as to why American tourists are “shitty”, but I imagine it is because he assumes that most people here are familiar with the negative image American tourists have with many parts of the world. Even absent that, you could infer how American tourists are “shitty” by thinking in context of what this post is about: Guests in a city disrespecting the locals, demanding that they not speak in their own language but in a language that the guests feel more comfortable with, preferring to demand the locals to adapt to them instead of them adapting to the locals.

    The website isn’t just for Americans, by the way.

    I never said it was. I don’t know why you feel compelled to say that.

    If there were to be a seemingly mandatory retarded, un-thought-out remark on every article about Britons all being douche bags or Croatians for all being piss-poor sports, then you’d probably see people remarking on the frequency and how much the comments lack in evidence and actual substance.

    You think it is a “retarded, un-thought-out remark” that lacks “evidence and actual substance” only because you don’t see how it is thought out or what the evidence and actual substance may be. Some people do, some people don’t. For example, I see the point in his comment, but you don’t. The problem I see here is that you didn’t bother to ask him what his point was. You didn’t ask him to explain. Instead, you jumped to assuming he’s like all those “other Chinese people” who make the “‘oh yeah? Well Americans ______!!!’ comments” you mention.

    I feel you view any mention of Americans in an internet discussion involving China as some Chinese person’s attempt to deflect attention onto Americans. Yes, as I’ve said, I agree that happens at times (even too often in certain circumstances), but I do think you need to step back and make sure first that’s what the person is doing before making that accusation…which you’ve been doing a whole lot recently. “American” is mentioned and I see you get angry and feeling persecuted. Are you SURE ralphrepo, like Ken in the other thread, weren’t making a larger point that has nothing to do with deflecting attention onto Americans?

    Ask people who felt they understood ralphrepo’s comment to explain to you why it made sense to them or why it didn’t offend them as much as it offended you. After genuinely considering what they tell you and you still don’t understand or you still feel offended, then go ahead and express yourself. I’ll just have to accept that you don’t see things the same way and disagree with you.

    So, if I were to say like “wow, those Chinese are just like shitty-ass Kai” without any reasonable explanation as to why I made this analogy…

    It depends on the context. For example, some people on chinaSMACK don’t like me and regularly accuse me of being verbose or holier than thou or whatever. I’m conscious of this. So, if there were a post about some guy who wrote a 20 page post on Tianya and one of the commenters here said “wow, this Chinese guy is ‘shitty-ass’ like Kai”, I’d probably get the allusion right away. I wouldn’t even feel upset about it, mainly because I’m aware of how long I write. Sometimes I write long because I’m not smart enough to write short, but I comfort myself in thinking I write long because I genuinely feel I’m doing my best to communicate as clearly and with as much nuance as I feel comfortable with. I don’t write long just to piss people off, I write as much as I need to in order to feel I’m communicating the exact point I want to communicate.

    Likewise, I wouldn’t take too much offense to ralphrepo’s comment if I were aware of how American tourists do indeed have a negative image. I would, however, if that person went further and tried to insist all Americans are like that or that the mere state of being American makes Americans insensitive tourists, or something ridiculous like that.

    wouldn’t you respond with a bit of suspicion on whether or not I was actually making a point or just being a dick to you? I would think so, yes.

    I don’t think you should interpret people here merely mentioning or alluding to Americans to be intentionally “being a dick” to you, Jones.

    Would it make a difference if I were from a different country?

    Not really. I do think you’re feeling personally offended by these people AND that you genuinely don’t get what they’re trying to say with those comments, thereby assuming they’re Chinese people trying to deflect attention onto Americans. Even if you weren’t American, and thus had less of a reason to be personally offended, I think it is still evident that you don’t get whatever points they’re making. After all, you’ve repeatedly asked what they’re trying to say and repeatedly, in exasperation, asked how it has anything to do with the post subject or the conversation it was involved in. If you don’t get what they may be trying to say, it wouldn’t make a difference to me because I’d still be trying to explain to you what they’re trying to say in order to answer your questions and exasperation.

  56. Jones,

    Looks like “shitty American” interpreted ralphrepo’s comment as likening average “shitty” American tourists to the Shanghainese DJ. I interpereted different above, but I think you can see how there was a point that people picked up on that you personally did not.

    It’s disconcerting that you demand that he can only make a “reasonable conclusion” after he has met “enough” Americans…and then you proceed to “debunk” his characterization of the “average American tourist” by using you and only yourself as the single data point necessary.

    Jones, do you see how silly that is? Sure, maybe you learned Mandarin, maybe you’re not insensitive, self-centerd, rude and crude. But what makes you think you represent the “average” American tourist? Maybe you’re not average? Or, maybe you as one American is not enough Americans for you to make a reasonable conclusion about the characterization of “average American tourist”?

    Shitty American only made a giant assumption about you IF your full name is “Average American Tourist”, and even then, I think it was unintentional since he wasn’t really referring to you specifically. He’s ony pulling shit out of his ass if you think everyone in the world who have a negative impression of American tourists are pulling shit ouf their ass.

  57. Jones,

    You need experience in something in order to cast reasonable judgement on it, especially when you’re casting judgement on a group of people.

    I agree. Two questions though:

    1. What makes you think he doesn’t have experience?

    2. Why don’t you demand the same when people cast judgement on a group of people (the Chinese) here all the time?

    I only see you doing this when “Americans” are mentioned.

    I was not debunking his opinion on every American based on myself. I was debunking the fact that he said I am a “prime example” of what he described as “ignorant, insensitive to foreign cultures, self centered, arrogant, rude and crude…”. That’s using myself as a data point in debunking an accusation about myself. I’d say that’s at least enough data for that.

    You’re right, I was mistaken on this point. I’m sorry.

    Celebrities are hounded by paparazzi because they themselves are responsible for their fame. If you pick on someone because whatever nationality they hold, that’s not the same.

    I understand the distinction you’re trying to make but I think you’re missing the analogy. Celebrities are a group of individuals just like Americans are a group of individuals. Some individuals can influence how the group are seen and how the group is seen can influence how outside individuals judge individuals inside that group. It’s not perfectly fair, but it’s an understandable phenomenon that I don’t find so difficult to expect. I feel you are exasperated by Americans being mentioned and measured against. I don’t.

    Say someone has a bad experience with celebrities who are arrogant. He begins thinking celebrities are arrogant because they are celebrities, because of their fame and success. When he thinks of celebrities next time, he’s inclined to associate arrogance with them.

    Say someone has a bad experience with Americans who are arrogant. He begins thinking Americans are arrogant because they are Americans, because of their dominant position in popular culture, economics, politics, military, etc. When he thinks of Americans next time, he’s inclined to associated arrogance with them.

    It is also wrong to make a very large generalization over an entire demographic based on my small experience with just a few of them.

    I agree, but I still find it odd that you don’t really go to bat for the Chinese when this happens to them.

    I think it’s hilarious that you think it’s wrong for me to make a comment on their comments.

    I don’t think its wrong for you to comment on their comments. What made you think that? I think it’s–to put it nicely–strange that you get so exasperated by people mentioning Americans in their comments to make whatever point they’re making. You’re so sensitive to it and I spoke up because I’ve seen you do this for some time now. You seem genuinely baffled by why they do this so I just wanted to explain it to you, to help you understand.

    As for some of your other misrepresenations of what I’ve said to you or tried communicating to you, I really think I’ve addressed them in previous comments so I’ll try not to repeat myself.

    At this point, I want to allude to a common admonishment many foreigners, including myself, make against the Chinese who whine about how butt-hurt they are when foreigners or foreign governments and foreign government officials criticize or denounce China: You’re playing with the big boys now, grow some thick skin and learn to handle criticism without whining about your feelings.

    Jones, Americans remain at the top of the global “food chain” in many ways. It is still the world’s only military super power. It is still the world’s strongest economy. It still dictates popular culture. America and Americans are resented as much as they are envied, just as how people feel towards the rich or famous. As an American, it is the baggage that comes with your nationality. It isn’t fair to you personally as an individual, no, but it isn’t that hard to understand or expect, especially for anyone who has a decent awareness of foreign and international sentiments or decent interaction with people from other countries. Once you understand why Americans get invoked so much, maybe you figure out how they fit into the point being made, and–if you dislike it–then do your part as an individual to change that perception of Americans.

    If you didn’t fit the stereotype of the “average American tourist” shitty American made, great. Keep it up. I hope you’ll defend other nationalities against unfair generalizations as much as you defend your own.

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