Taiwanese Reject Typhoon Aid, Fear Chinese-Made Toxic

taiwan-typhoon-morakot-flood-old-couple

After the recent Typhoon Morakot devastated the island of Taiwan with over 100 people dead and many hundred people missing, mainland China donated 1000 prefabricated housing sets (mobile homes?) along with other aid including tents, blankets, and money. However, some Taiwanese people rejected this donation of temporary housing because they feared poisonous toxic chemicals in the materials. Here is part of an English news report from Reuters:

TAIPEI, Aug 19 (Reuters) – A Taiwan town where 700 people were displaced after the island’s worst typhoon in 50 years has declined mobile homes from political rival China, fearing the they might contain toxic chemicals, officials said on Wednesday.

Chiatung Township refused 100 quick-assembly homes after Taiwan’s notoriously anti-China county of Pingtung said that based on news reports in China, they might contain formalin, a chemical that can be hazardous in high doses, deputy county magistrate Chung Chia-pin said.

“Although the homes are a humanitarian donation, we need to consider safety first,” Chung said. “Also, not just China, but other countries are also offering these donations.”

The homes, which reached Taiwan on Tuesday, should be tested for any contamination, said township chief Lai Hsieh-ho.

China said the homes had already been checked.

“These mobile homes are strictly produced according to Taiwan’s design requirements and technical standards by the mainland’s top producers,” Fan Liqing, spokeswoman for China’s Taiwan Affairs Office, told a news conference.

A ship leaving Shenzhen with prefabricated housing for Taiwan Typhoon Morakot survivors.

A ship leaving Shenzhen with prefabricated housing for Taiwan Typhoon Morakot survivors.

Upon seeing this news and many comments made by some Taiwanese people on Taiwanese BBS forums like PPT, many Chinese people were very offended and upset.

Comments from Tianya:

dior0823:

You give and they make sarcastic remarks;

You say “wait until they have a need and then give” and they say our donation was not proactive!

Only one thing to say: lowly people. That’s why we should have given them [prefabricated housing] that actually had excessive chemicals, because either way they are people who want to die but have not succeeded yet [people who are "asking for it"], so it is the same whether they die sooner or later, and yet they want to spend mainland people’s money. How come the disaster wasn’t just a little bigger? This is my biggest regret!

超哥1986:

WW‘s mentality~~ the same as bang zi~~

Ms_静:

If they don’t want it, then they can go find America and Japan and beg them for it.

cayou米吐:

Some people have nothing better to do,
spending every day caring about foreigners’ business.
Does the country of Taiwan have 5 mao money’s relation with us?
It would be better to pay more attention to the Fujian, Zhejiang disaster victims.

左佳穗:

I really want to know what is inside these Wan-Wan‘s brains???

甜池:

I have seen this so much I no longer feel anything. Mainlanders going onto PTT are basically looking to make themselves angry, so I basically no longer go there.

Most WW people are:
If we give materials/supplies, they suspect us of giving black-hearted [evil] adulterated/contaminated goods,
but if we do not give materials/supplies, they curse us  for only talking big [but not doing anything].
If we give money, they suspect us of maliciously trying to reunify,
but if we do not give money, they again curse us for being a bunch of vulgar poor bastards without compassion.
Only one thing to say, no matter what you do it is wrong and harboring evil intentions.

The only feeling I have within my heart towards TW [Taiwan] compatriots now is that this bunch of lowly cunts have themselves destroyed my feelings towards them after we have given so much to them.

chunfofo:

Continue tightly clutching the thigh of the [foreign] devil’s America…all are SB.

高语婕:

No matter what they say, they are still our fellow compatriots, no matter how they look at us, we are born from the same roots.
Right now there is no need to bicker here, the disaster survivors are the most important, let’s just ignore those people who have nothing to do but talk about others.

nanopanda:

I am not that magnanimous. I will not donate money to them. The mainland has also extremely seriously disaster-stricken.

熊猫数叶子:

Let us do what we do [and not care about what they say]~ those people criticizing us in Taiwan have nothing better to do, using their money to come yell at us~ would it not be better for them to save some electricity costs, internet costs, and go help those disaster victims?

舞着叉叉的恶魔:

Let them talk. We were donating to the disaster area, not to mental retards.

dior0823:

1000 sets of prefabricated housing does not need to be too good, it just needs to be environmentally safe and habitable for the moment [because the people will not live in them forever, it is just temporary housing]!

This typhoon was too small, only that few people died in Taiwan. Coming to the mainland to order body bags, it was difficult for us to deal with the factory producers. Only a few hundred, there’s no profit [in that small amounts]!

If possible, the mainland can donate 23 million body bags, guaranteed to be environmentally safe,  guaranteed to be non-polluted! Then throw it into the sea, feed the fish, and it would be considered a good deed for humanity! Next, the mainland can emigrate 30 million people to Taiwan, and from then on everything will be OK!

Chinese airplane arriving in Taiwan with more Typhoon Morakot aid.

Chinese airplane arriving in Taiwan with more Typhoon Morakot aid.

Comments from KDS:

灵灵:

Give them face but they do not want face. If a few more Taiwanese die, then it will be peaceful.

pooruhc:

The south of Taiwan has always had a high concentration of Taiwanese independence supporters, so this incident we could say was our own fault. Looks like there is not much hope for peaceful reunification, so let us give up our fantasies and prepare to fight.

奥特MAN:

Authentic “cold butt pressed upon hot face” [being warm/friendly to someone but that person treats you coldly].
China has an old saying: Once you eat/accept other people’s things, it is harder to criticize them.

南希子:

Taiwan, the motherland is calling for you to accept the mobile homes…

金牛座:

They are much better at resisting hard disks than us SHR [Shanghai ren, Shanghai people].

We only talk, but they take action. LOL

格鲁古古:

This is why it is said that Taiwanese are stupid/foolish.

They don’t even know that the gcd [gong can dang, Communist Party] always likes to give outsiders high quality goods to use, and give their own people counterfeits + poisoned goods. The past Sanlu melamine and Mengniu incidents are the best examples.

采菊东篱下:

Great Chinese manufacturing.

夜乌子:

Chengguan battalion 1, prepare yourselves [for battle].

tintim:

Bullshit donating. They have plenty, so why give them money? Look, we give them and they do not even want it.

五作小郎君:

The poisoned stuff we cannot bear to give you guys [Taiwanese] to use! It is all for ourselves. -o-

J.A&S.A:

LOL

It will be great the day Shanghainese can be this niubi.

无极限:

Extremely stupid/foolish.
There are no problems with the aid. Accept what is mainland China’s humanitarianism. Why refuse aid in order to criticize others? If the original destination did not need it, then rejecting it could still be understood. But refusing urgently needed materials/supplies, how can the local head/leader do right by the people? Taking any problem and politicizing it, typical of Asians, typical of Chinese.

上海菜泡饭:

The facts once again demonstrate
that military force is necessary to liberate Taiwan.

As for Taiwanese pigs, we can only treat them with the neutron bomb.

耶耶的熊:

If they really have the gall, then they should also return all the money we donated~~~motherfuckers! They just know how to take money~~~

没雨:

We still do not know where [their] 5.12 donation is! A lot of them were empty promises, and then making it so difficult to donate to the Taiwanese. I really do not understand, Zhejiang and Fujian were also victims of Morakot, so why is the difference this big? Truly sad!!!

上海菜泡饭:

From ancient times, Taiwan has had a lot of unruly people. The Qing Dynasty early on had mainland government officials visit Taiwan. Afterward, their reports expounded that the quality of people/society in Taiwan’s people was poor, that the local people were cunning and hard to deal with.
No wonder liars/cheats mostly come from Fujian [many Taiwanese are originally from Fujian province], with fake gold ingots in the past and now all the SMS text message scams are created by Fujian people.
And why are we donating tents, we should just directly send missiles over and wait. A bunch of Taiwan pigs.

Share This Article

187 Comments

  • Some HTML can be used to format your comment.
  • Add a picture to your comments with Gravatar.
  • Our Comment Policy.
  1. So, sad. I feel for the Taiwanese people

  2. Wow. Some very rude comments.

  3. Personally I think it was very honorable of them to bear the hardships of exposure rather than accept aid from Communist bandits who represent everything that the free nation of Taiwan stands against.

    If a Jap tried to build me a house I’d tell him to jam it up his ass.

  4. If the mainlanders here haven’t noticed, Taiwan doesn’t want help from the mainland. The government will accept it, but its citizens don’t want it.

    I also find it funny how mainlanders are calling the Taiwanese inferior here. By world standards, China is easily below Taiwan in manners, quality, and a lot of other things that the world would use to judge and see if a country is “civilized”.

    I mean seriously, China is well known throughout the world for its problematic goods that are sometimes toxic, poisonous, or just straight out inferior in quality. If a country that’s well known for these problems come to you and offer you something, wouldn’t you be cautious as well?

    “Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.” – Albert Einstein

    • yes, maindland bullets are known to dissentegrate on impact instead of piercing… making them useless in combat.

      • Using death, destruction, and conquest to solve a problem are a thing of the past. Only the uncivilized individual or the truly moronic are still using physical threats as a mean to intimidate a country. Ex. Kim Jong of N.K., terrorists, George W. Bush.

        The smarter countries use economic means of controlling another country. Look what China has done to the US.

        • China controlling the US? lol no.

          • If you haven’t noticed, America’s stance on China has softened quite a bit. It’s no longer the complete “BAD CHINA, BAD” attitude. They’ve evolved to critiques. Look how Hillary backed down from her tough anti China stance.

            Besides, if China decided to call in the debt, the US economy would absolutely crumble. You don’t think money affects the relationship between 2 countries?

          • That’s 90% true. China has a lot of leverage right now, but you’ll also notice that after the US was pressuring China to reduce the RMB for years, they finally did let it drop a little bit. Both sides have shown themselves willing to make a few concessions on economic issues, although there is an excessive amount of political posturing by both governments as well.

    • >I mean seriously, China is well known throughout the world for its problematic goods that are sometimes toxic, poisonous, or just straight out inferior in quality. If a country that’s well known for these problems come to you and offer you something, wouldn’t you be cautious as well?

      One of the comments said it best:

      无极限: They don’t even know that the gcd [gong can dang, Communist Party] always likes to give outsiders high quality goods to use, and give their own people counterfeits + poisoned goods. The past Sanlu melamine and Mengniu incidents are the best examples.

    • At least they didn’t donate any MILK.

  5. I think its time for Jay Zhou’s Pandaman to save the day. Only Pandaman can bring harmony to taiwan and China. Then we can get S.H.E (who are all in their 30′s) to pretend to be cute little kids. Yeah, that would distract us all…

    To be honest, I love taiwan and the mainland. However, I think Taiwan was in the wrong here. They should have checked them and kept that secret. Don’t go to news channels and accuse China’s aid of being tainted, without doing actual tests or having proof.

    What and where are these news reports?

    I think some of the comments are a bit excessive… However, I do understand the anger. I know China has some tainted products. But, to say that China would deliberately ship humanitarian devices that can hurt people is a bit much…

    • The last news reports I saw reported that both the Taiwanese AND the EPA had done tests, and the prefabs were safe. For one thing, the very design of the prefabs (styrofoam pieces sandwiched between metal frames, no glues needed) precluded the use of resins that might have the chemical toxins the Taiwanese villagers were afraid of. For another, a few days of ventilation would remove any emitted toxins from such glue resin harmless anyway.

      The main thing here is that what the villagers and the officials representing them did was just poor form. China had by this time already donated millions in aid, both in the form of cash and other supplies. Given the reputation that Chinese products are sometimes, even too often, questionable, you still don’t reject gifts/donations and embarrass the gifter/donor. If there were worries, be gracious, accept the donation, and then run tests. If they end up being dangerous, don’t use them, and then decide if you really want to go out on a limb and accuse the donor of being evil bastards trying to poison you in your time of need. Rejecting millions of aid AFTER they’ve already been shipped across the ocean, trucked to your front door, and with people waiting to set them up FOR you is a dick move, whether intentional or not.

      These villagers and their representatives may not have set out to politicize this entire fiasco but they accomplished it, embarrassing themselves and pissing off the Chinese. You can suspect mainland China of having ulterior motives of buddy-buddying with Beijing-friendly Ma and the current KMT-led government in order to foster good-will towards eventual reunification, but to the average Chinese person (who had no role in deciding whether their government would donate or not), this still looks like their government spending money on foreign aid (instead of always lacking domestic aid), and getting flipped the bird for it. Of course, none of this excuses the vile things some of them have said in anger, but this is definitely not as simple as: “Chinese products have been known to have poisons, hence rejecting the aid and publicly embarrassing the Chinese is an entirely justified move.”

      Understandable maybe, but definitely not justified or even blameless. Again, I don’t think most Taiwanese set out to embarrass the Chinese publicly, but they definitely did not handle this tactfully.

      • @Kai

        I agree. It was very poor taste and ill-mannered for the Taiwanese to publicly embarrass China when China was attempting to help them in their need.

        Obviously, someone in Taiwan had an “agenda” and used the naivety and gullibility of the Taiwanese peasants to attack China.

        • Or maybe the villagers simply just hated China that much.

        • I wouldn’t put it above the Chinese government propagandists to spin it as minority marginal elements in Taiwan manipuating the gullible but otherwise China-loving Taiwan masses…but even the Chinese would find such a spin intolerably stupid.

          In my experience, most minimally educated Chinese people know that there are simply people in Taiwan who do not identify with a shared Chinese cultural background, think their interests lie in remaining forever separate from China regardless of pragmatics or just hate the Chinese. They know there are staunch anti-China/pro-independence people in Taiwan. Fortunately, most also know that a good healthy amount of people in Taiwan who, like them and the Chinese government, are content to be practical, want to get along for mutual benefit, and leave this question of reunification to be answered in the future, perhaps by future generations. This maintenance of the status quo is desired by the majority in both Taiwan, China, and around the world, not least of which would be America. Southern Taiwan is definitely more pro-independence (if we go by single-issue voting), but overall Taiwan and Taiwanese people are still a fairly pragmatic lot who care more about economic interests and having a good life for them and their children over needlessly antagonizing a major trading partner and investment country for kicks.

      • Yeah… what percent of UN and Red Cross supplies come from licensed Chinese manufacturers? Probably the vast majority. If they can use them I think Pingtung can. We all know these petty provincial yokel politicians will improve their guanxi with the Taipei bosses and the poor flooded out people will still be living in shitty conditions.

  6. Those people are a little too much. They just want to make Ma Yingjeou look bad. Most of the uneducated southern TW ppl are just a bunch of sore losers that still want JP to come and rape them all over again anyways.

    If TW is so developed and independent, why can’t they help themselves?

    • the great yellow master race

      wait! Ma is educated? geshh.. why at the hell have chinese spend so much money to buy his degrees then?

      • Any education from an American university like Harvard or NYU is better than any university where kids pass classes because of their family background or who their parents payed off or even slept with. “Why at the hell” do people even go to college when the most important thing they do is memorize speeches from a dead leader so they can get into a special club that supposedly guarantees a job after four years of rote memorization?

        • Because going to college is just going through the motions for them and does improve their chances of finding a “good job”.

        • You are not wrong, but you are mistaken if you think wealth and connections can’t buy an education… Bush graduated from Yale because of his family’s connections and cash… the guy can’t even spell or write and thinks Algebra is the last name of a really tall Laker from the 80s.

    • Which country are you from that doesn’t accept foreign aid?

  7. i would take free food from chinese.

    there must be something wrong if they give it fro free.

    • its call relief aid, it suppose to be free dumbass, i think you need get yourself check out at a local high school.

      • the great yellow master race

        yellow master race gives nothing for free you dumbarse!
        we did it after the liberatio of Taiwan to free those barbars from those backward japnese and will get our chance to earn our money again!

        WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  8. billy talent:

    I’m sure their bullets are just great but hello and welcome to the 19th century, small arms haven’t defined conflicts since the Boer War.

    If the ROC’s military is so freaking great, why don’t they show this tiny island nation who’s boss? Because their planes would be blown out of the sky and their shitty navy would become known as the Taiwan Straight Memorial Reef. I’m well aware of your military history, back during the war your mindless human wave attacks provided excellent fertiliser for my grandfather’s cabbage farm.

    Even if your weapons were superior to theirs, you’d still lose unless you had a really big advantage. Israel proved in 1948, 1967 and 1973 that free thinking people will beat stupid backwards people even if they’re badly outnumbered and outgunned.

    • The way you’ve confused ROC/PRC just adds to the charm of one of your typically moronic posts.

    • LOL . . . if South Korea didn’t become the BITCH of the US, it would of been taken over a long long time ago. Same thing with Taiwan.

      Your examples of war are epic failures. Read some more before you use something as an example.

      Fact is that China’s army has become one of the most advanced and skilled armies that the world has to offer. The only two countries that would put a decent fight for China would be the US and Russia and neither of which wants a piece of China.

      • Uh, what? Advanced and skilled by what measure? Of course neither Russia or the US would want a war with China, but it isn’t because they’re awed and afraid of China’s advanced and skilled military capabilities, it’s because a war with a nuclear China in a globalized economy is fucking stupid. Now, China’s army is big, sure, but the most advanced and skilled military is arguably by far America’s.

        • Yes, the US army is the most modern, but I didn’t argue against that. Nor did I say that the US and Russia are in awe of the Chinese army.

          China’s army is probably 2nd tier while Russia is probably 1st or 2nd tier, and the US being 1st tier. Even as a 2nd tier army, China boasts some impressive technology in their arsenal. Example would be their military hackers.

      • Chinese military copied everything from U.S. military and everyone else. How can they be more advanced than the U.S.?

        • The same way the Japanese industry became superior to the US industry. Take something from the other country modify it and make it better. Ex. TVs and cars.

      • Do you really believe the shit you write? What evidence do you have to support such an utterly ridiculous claim? China’s army hasn’t been in a real conflict for decades.

        Other than shooting her own citizens in the face, that is. (ala the Tianamen Square Massacre, Tibet, Xinjiang, etc…)

        • Yeah I have to agree on this one. The last two conflicts they had were against unarmed protesters.

          China in a conventional war stands little chance against most world powers due its pathetic attempts at a Navy and/or Air Force. The idea that their ground forces could be strategically well deployed in most regional conflict zones is laughable. Projection of power is also a no go. They’re advances in the past 30 years have been impressive no doubt in terms of SOC(Special Operations Capable) forces, their current construction of newer cruiser technology, and external intelligence gathering. Not to shabby for a peasant army slated to fight the Russians.

          I must also agree with the person who said in these days of heavy ass economic linkage, the power of the gun is becoming more and more useless against traditional state actors. China would love to kick Taiwan in the balls with an ICBM just to gain some “face” for never fulfilling their promise to “reunite the motherland”, but it has become increasingly futile/infantile and some people at the top are finally getting that.

          As to the aid thing. American’s are still bitching about Katrina aid after 4 years and this doesn’t hold a candle to that argument.

  9. Given the fact that so many Chinese products contain deadly chemicals that continue to kill and/or poisoned people in the world, one cannot blame the Taiwanese people for being careful.

    Skin rashes, breathing difficulties, and vomiting are common reactions to everyday products bought in supermarkets. Chinese products are a “health lottery” sometimes.

  10. I think that the citizens are making a political statement here with their actions. I am sure if any of us were to find a prefab home in the typhoon zone it would be of Japanese or American make. The only reason they reject the homes were because they were from China. I don’t applaud their decisions because some of them may die from exposure over a wounded pride, but at the same time you have to respect them for standing up against China.

    The chinese on the other hand have every right to be offended, but calling them WW’s is childish. This is might just be a fraction of the reason why Taiwanese don’t want to go back to the mainland. They’ll be treated as inferiors versus brothers.

    • Why do I or anyone “have to” respect them for simply “standing up to” China? That’s a pretty broad criteria for respect, don’t you think>

      I agree that Chinese people having a silly little nickname like WW is childish but, seriously, both sides have plenty of childish (and not so childish but downright offensive) nicknames for each other. In fact, mainland people are probably far more self-conscious of going to Taiwan and being discriminated against as being the backward country-bumpkin than Taiwanese going to the mainland. There is no clear-headed mainlander who holds any delusions about Taiwanese society being less developed and “civilized” than their own at this point in time, no matter how many jokes they make about Taiwan’s legislature brawling. The inferiority complex is quite squarely on the mainlanders’ shoulders, not the Taiwanese, who are much more self-confident about themselves and often rightly-so (as long as they don’t become too cocky and self-righteous).

      • Would you respect and admire a 6 year old for standing up against a 20 year old bully?

        Have you ever heard the story of David and Goliath? Most people would probably respect David for his courage.

        The truth of it is that a lot of people in China are country ass hicks who have little or no education. Hicks in EVERY SINGLE country are dumbasses that create problems and create negative stereotypes for the rest of their countrymen. China and Taiwan are no different and I must say that some of the most country ass hicks that I’ve ever seen are from these two places.

        • Sure, but China wasn’t bullying Taiwan into accepting its aid, was it? That’s my point, that this exhortation that people should respect Taiwan for any action that “stands up to” China without consideration for the circumstances is ridiculous.

          People sure do admire underdogs, but respect should be accorded to underdogs who are underdogs for noble reasons, not just for the sake of going up against someone bigger. Should we respect the Iraqi insurgency simply because they’re fighting the bigger Americans?

          The truth of it is that a lot of people in China are country ass hicks who have little or no education. Hicks in EVERY SINGLE country are dumbasses that create problems and create negative stereotypes for the rest of their countrymen. China and Taiwan are no different and I must say that some of the most country ass hicks that I’ve ever seen are from these two places.

          Agreed completely! Dumbasses are dumbasses.

          • In my opinion, yes. I do admire the Iraqi insurgency to a certain degree because they’ve the guts to take on a country the size and power of America. COURAGE is an admirable quality.

            Do I respect why they’re doing it? No.

  11. Best place for PUSAN PLAYA kind is hell.

    • In general, when people call themselves “playa,” in real life, they’re usually not the best that society has to offer.

      Besides, trying to be black or anything that someone isn’t usually means that individual lacks something somewhere in his life.

  12. What these pre-fab homes may contain is not toxic chemicals, but loneliness…

  13. Those villegers dumped box-food made by their own aid workers and demand to have ‘restaurant food’. So what do you expect?

  14. They should have just dumped them when they arrived if they were so worried. Being so outright with it just isn’t very politically strategic.

  15. Could we have a post on the “Dalai Lama visit to Taïwan” Chinese reactions?
    And to the Apple Daily poll saying that a big majority of Taiwan population were expecting him?

    • Mike Lee:

      Chinasmack is too cowardly to do “political” stories, that’s why they pretended that the Hajji riots didn’t happen. Frankly I’m surprised they admitted that Taiwan exists.

      • Easy there “playa”, chinasmack has always been more about cultural or popular phenomena than politics. There are plenty of political websites out there, so their decision to stay away from 100% politically oriented stories is not “cowardly”, it’s just them sticking to the nice niche they’ve carved out for themselves.

        • You can also try Chinahush. Granted, it’s somewhat shamelessly a shanzhai version of chinaSMACK, but Key is a nice guy and I do think he’s trying to differentiate now. More important for you guys above, they do run more political stories on there with plenty of the same questionable/quirky/scandalous social stories chinaSMACK does.

    • Send me the links to the articles, I will be glad to write a post if I think they are good. I don’t usually translate user comments though.

  16. I’ve never heard the expression “热脸贴冷屁股” (to stick a cold arse on a warm face) before. Is it very common?

  17. When will Chinese people realize that the actions of the Taiwanese and often the actions of foreigners are not directed at the Chinese people. The taiwanese people made a political statement and pissed off the Chinese governemnt. that is what free people and freely elected represebtative democracies do. The Taiwanese people do no want to be reunified with the mainland if the mainland is governed by the CCP. If you were free, you would understand that and respect it. Several years ago, I often heard Bush bashing as i ravelled through Europe. Did those Bush bashers hate me? Did they have preconceived notions of how I thought? Did they want to start a war with the US and “liberate” us from such a regime? The answer of course is NO. Free thinking people often politicize things in order to make a statement. That is how they express their views to the people of other countries. When Bush bashers filled the streets of some European cities, they werent saying we hate America, they were saying – “Hey, you guys should really think about getting rid of this guy”. They didn’t call for war, bring up stories of WWII, make stereotypes, or give anectdotes from before they were even born to justify their hostility. Just my opinion, but I think that some Chinese have to defend their government to the fullest because they can’t replace it. they need to turn their anger outwards. Others can see this for what it is – a political statement. They don’t like your government and probably some of you for the attitudes your government has helped foster – so what? If you’re happy, be happy. there are many people in China who don’t have homes right now, take the pre fab homes back and give them to your own people. Stop using “face” to demeen yourselves. You act like the kid on the playground who pouts unless everyone likes him or at least pretends to like him. If you like your life, yourself, and your government, it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks, political statement or not. And for some of those sounding the drums of war, you might want to check into Taiwan’s 18 defense treaties with foreign nations before you get too excited.

    • cmfeirs,

      When will Chinese people realize that the actions of the Taiwanese and often the actions of foreigners are not directed at the Chinese people.

      Free thinking people often politicize things in order to make a statement. That is how they express their views to the people of other countries.

      If Taiwanese people make a statement to express their views to the people of other countries, wouldn’t that necessarily mean are in part directed at the Chinese people?

      That contradiction aside, I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make in response to this topic. I’m guessing you’re trying to criticize the Chinese people who

      call for war, bring up stories of WWII, make stereotypes, or give anectdotes from before they were even born to justify their hostility

      by comparing them to Bush bashers in Europe. However, I’m sure you understand that the situations are very very different. It’s just a bad analogy in general. The Europeans simply disliked the actions and representation of America’s president whereas The Chinese feel they have a claim based upon a nation divided. These are qualitatively very different. Hell, the sentiments expressed between Taiwanese vs Chinese would be closer to Californians vs. the rest of the United States over a variety of liberal politics (not sure if you’re familiar with what I’m alluding to) than Americans vs. European Bush-bashers.

      Just my opinion, but I think that some Chinese have to defend their government to the fullest because they can’t replace it.

      A very reasonable and partly true opinion to have, and shared by many Chinese themselves. Similarly, many Chinese defend their government because they can’t think of anything else they can be confident or assured of being better to deal with the problems they have here in China. For example, with democracy, most Chinese agree in principle that democracy is awesome, but they’re just not sure it’d work for them at this point in time. They very much admire America, but they also very much see all the failed democracies in the world. They don’t see their problems as being easily solved by a simple change in political systems.

      You act like the kid on the playground who pouts unless everyone likes him or at least pretends to like him.

      This is very true about China, especially for those of us IN China. It is pretty nauseating. However, I don’t think it’s fair to fault the Chinese with this characterization in this case. Come on, the Taiwanese accepted the cold hard cash you gave but they’re going to reject your prefab housing and accuse you of deliberately poisoning them with humanitarian aid? I’d be pretty damn offended, especially if you’ve been donating millions with the next two biggest donors (US and Japan) having donated far less than a single million. Taiwan came to your help for last year’s Sichuan earthquake and now you’re trying to return the favor but they insinuate to outright accuse your aid of being poisonous? After you spent the money to build them to Taiwanese specifications, loaded them up in a cargo ship, trucked them to the village where its needed, and you’re idling there waiting to set them up while the village representative says “we don’t want them, we’re afraid your Chinese build quality might poison us”?

      Are you serious? You’re telling the Chinese to just go home and be happy and secure in themselves? Good general advice, sure, but for this situation? Come on, man, be fair to the Chinese here. I think their angry reaction is at least as comprehensible as the Taiwanese villagers apprehensions about Chinese product safety. Of course, I also think their stupid spiteful comments are poor form as much as the Taiwanese rejecting the aid on the grounds they offered, but if anyone ought to be singled out for poor form for this entire fiasco, it should be the Taiwanese villagers. In the grand scheme of things, this incident is not really going to hurt Taiwan-China relations because overall Taiwan and the Taiwanese are expressing mountains of gratitude for China’s aid, but these Taiwanese villagers did paint themselves as petty.

      • Nationalism . . .

        “Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.” – George Orwell

        “Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” – Charles de Galle

        “(Nationalism is) a set of beliefs taught to each generation in which the Motherland or the Fatherland is an object of veneration and becomes a burning cause for which one becomes willing to kill the children of other Motherlands or Fatherlands” – Howard Zinn

        “We are in the midst of a great transition from narrow nationalism to international partnership”
        - Lyndon B. Johnson

        is too strong here in China. I’ve never seen anyone defend their own country as fiercely as the Chinese. This is a good thing to a certain degree and I RESPECT it, but when will the Chinese ask for the reform and the betterment of their own society that the Chinese so righteously deserve?

        • the great yellow master race

          point

          –I’ve never seen anyone defend their own country as fiercely as the Chinese.–

          yepp.. that why Shintofacists marched into Nanking, and Nazis not into Leningrad or Moscow.. we chinese care only for own face not our country.

          beside that de galle quote is the best..

          • Defend as in verbal, not physical. Just walk into any heavily populated place in China and start shouting out anti China slogans and see what happens. At the very least, a few arguments.

            WWII wise, it’s not like the Chinese didn’t put up a fight. The Chinese were simply outclassed in technology. Plain and simple. You had guys with swords and really outdated rifles charging guys with machine guns. Guess who’s going to win that one.

            There are basically two reasons that the Nazis didn’t take Russia. 1) Winter and 2) the sheer size or Russia.

            Same deal with China. If Japan and China had gone toe to toe without outside interference, Japan would NEVER be able to take and hold the mainland. Just think how many soldiers they would need to occupy a country the size of China.

  18. mountains out of molehills

  19. Reading the comments section always put a smile on my face. The amount of stupid comments on this site are always too numerous to rebut.

    One thing I’d like to point out is how funny it is that Pusan Playa is still posting pro-korean comments here.

    It seems that everytime he does this, there are an extra three posts with the words ‘kimchi breath’, ‘gooks’or some other derrogatory comment about Koreans being inferior that is posted immediately aftewards.

    Then Pusan ignores these comments and posts another pro-korean post in a new story with the same process happening again. It’s truly hilarious to watch.

  20. BTW, I’ve tried to PM you Kai, but when i click your name, it brings me to CNreviews.

    • Charles, I don’t think there’s a PM system built into WordPress. If you want to contact me, you can use the contact form on CNReviews. I’d rather not drop my e-mail publicly for the spambots that roam the internet. Cheers.

  21. Oh Schnap! Failed to send your message. Please try again or contact us through some other way. Telepathy works, or Twitter.

    • That’s odd, that comment form works fine for most others. Drop me a comment on a CNR post or something and I’ll e-mail you through the e-mail you enter in your comment. Twitter is blocked in China and I’m too lazy to VPN just for the sake of using it.

  22. the great yellow master race

    god bless we are not starting to talk about those rocets pointing Formosa and our pandas bemacing gay in their zoos.. oooooooooooopppppssssssssss!

  23. kai,

    If Taiwanese people make a statement to express their views to the people of other countries, wouldn’t that necessarily mean are in part directed at the Chinese people?

    No, there is a major difference between people making a statement “to” the Chinese people and “at” the Chinese people. The refusal of the pre-fab houses can be viewd two ways:

    1. We dont want your Chinese shit, it’s poor quality and probably poisonous. You Chinese can’t be trusted, you’re all a bunch of backward thieves and liars.

    2. We dont want to give your government the chance to seem benevolent by offering aid. We wont allow ourselves to be used during this crisis to give them the appearance of piety.

    The act of rfusal is just that – an act. It is definitely a statement, but that statement is open for interpretation. I like to believe it is the latter interpretation.

    Free thinking people often politicize things in order to make a statement. That is how they express their views to the people of other countries.

    It’s important to remember intent. In democracies or representative democracies, there is a disconnect between the people and government. We elect people who are supposed to reflect our views, but often they do not. therefore, people do not equal the government. We are not our government and our government is not us. In China, there is often an association that follows people = nation = government. If they maintain that view, they will often overreact to outside political statements or gestures.

    It’s just a bad analogy in general. The Europeans simply disliked the actions and representation of America’s president whereas The Chinese feel they have a claim based upon a nation divided. These are qualitatively very different. Hell, the sentiments expressed between Taiwanese vs Chinese would be closer to Californians vs. the rest of the United States over a variety of liberal politics (not sure if you’re familiar with what I’m alluding to) than Americans vs. European Bush-bashers.

    Sorry, but this one is just horrible reasoning on your part. 1.) The Bush-bashers were being compared to the Taiwanese, not the Chinese. 2.) it would not be better compared to California vs. the rest of the United States debating over gay marraige. It is a fundamental philosophy difference in for of governance – democracy vs. totalitarianism, much like the fundamental difference in use of force around the globe – pre-emptive force vs. defensive force. 3.) and, you cannot claim a people. The Chinese can argue the claim for the territory of Taiwan, and I will listen. But, anyone who throws out that recited BS about peaceful reunification is an idiot. Taiwan is an island once controlled by the government of China. The people who did not want the form of government that was soon to be imoposed on the mainland, fled to Taiwan. They are no longer Chinese by nationality, only common ethnicity. Should Russians feel they have a claim on the people of Alaska? Should the British feel they have a claim on the people of India? Peaceful reunification is coded language for conquering a people and their ideology. Using that as a defense for the hatred towards the Taiwanese in this post is ridiculous.

    I am glad we agreed in general on the rest of my post. I think my irritation when i read the reactions of the Chinese is based solely on the fact that I think it was a thumb in the eye of the chinese government, and coming from a democratic country without having any great respect for the people who run my own country (although I am proud of the basic design and principles of the system) I just dont think it is a statement or reflection on the Chinese people. And, it should not be so personalized by the average Chinese person in the street.

    • the great yellow master race

      You Chinese can’t be trusted, you’re all a bunch of backward thieves and liars.–

      fuck yeahhh, we are proud to be that way!

      ————————————————-
      BEIJING, Aug. 19 (Xinhua) — As Taiwan was hit by the most devastating typhoon in half a century, the Communist Party of China (CPC) top leader Hu Jintao said Wednesday that the mainland shared “the same feeling” with Taiwan people.
      “We share the same feeling with Taiwan compatriots, especially the ethnic minorities, who suffered serious life and property loss in the recent disaster. We are very much concerned,” said Hu, general secretary of the CPC Central Committee

      http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-08/26/content_11943539.htm
      —————————————————-

    • No . . . governments and citizens are two completely different things.

      There’s no such thing as a good government.

      A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.
      - Barry Goldwater

      Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor.
      - James Russell Lowell

      Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us.
      - P. J. O’Rourke

      Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
      - George Washington

      People on the other hand, are completely different. A few good, a few bad, and most of us neutral. And unfortunately, people tend to remember the bad ones and good ones, rarely the neutral ones.

      • J, while I get your point, I think you too would have to laugh at you juxtaposing:

        governments and citizens are two completely different things.

        with…

        Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us.
        - P. J. O’Rourke

        I don’t think anyone with a basic grasp of social contract can go so far as to say that government and people are “completely” different.

        Again, just poking fun, I know what you’re trying to say.

    • cmfeirs,

      Sorry it has taken a few days to come back to this thread.

      No, there is a major difference between people making a statement “to” the Chinese people and “at” the Chinese people.

      I agree there is a difference, but I think the difference in this situation is pretty small. Moreover, I think it is more plausible than not that there were Taiwanese people taking advantage of this situation to make a statement both TO and AT the Chinese, just as there were Taiwanese people who were genuinely not intending to politicize and were really just apprehensive about Chinese product safety.

      The refusal of the pre-fab houses can be viewd two ways:

      I agree.

      The act of rfusal is just that – an act. It is definitely a statement, but that statement is open for interpretation. I like to believe it is the latter interpretation.

      I agree the statement is open for interpretation. I understand you prefer to believe it is the latter. I hope you understand that in reality, that statement was made by different people with different intentions, including both interpretations you outlined, and received as such.

      I further believe the translated Chinese comments evidence this:

      Those who interpreted the Taiwanese as being genuinely apprehensive of the product safety were met with Chinese scoffs similar to 格鲁古古 and 五作小郎君 who observe all too poignantly that China usually exports its good stuff and saves the shitty dangerous stuff for its own people, or even 采菊东篱下 who explicitly acknowledges China’s poor manufacturing image.

      Those who interpreted the Taiwanese as not giving China face, not accepting China’s aid for political reasons, voiced so, again clearly in the above comments. Both Taiwanese, Chinese, and Western media were not blind to the circumstantial evidence that such a rejection may have been politically motivated as news outlets reporting on this story all took pains to point out that this village itself was known for being anti-China and generally located in the more pro-independence southern part of Taiwan. Suspicions of political motives were not made by the Chinese alone, and there surely were many things said online by Taiwanese netizens that reinforced the interpretation that at least many Taiwanese people saw this refusal in political terms, that many pro-independence/anti-China Taiwanese people delighted in the political implications of this rejection.

      It’s important to remember intent.

      Yes, and it is further more important to recognize plurality of intent when dealing with a group of people larger than 1.

      I get that you’re insisting that the Taiwanese here were making a political statement against letting China “looking benevolent” instead of genuinely fearing China’s product safety. I still think this is petty. For one thing, what country doesn’t offer foreign aid with the intent of “looking benevolent”? In global politics, all actions are politically motivated. In philosophy, psychology, and sociology, no action is truly altruistic.

      During the Sichuan Earthquake, China did not only accept Taiwan’s aid, it also accepted Japan’s aid. What would you think if you saw news reports of people in Sichuan rejecting the Japanese emergency earthquake teams as they landed on the ground rushing to go dig out buried Chinese people in the crucial first hours instead of stories of Sichuan people crying in gratitude along with Japanese workers (who couldn’t speak a lick of Chinese) as they brought the only thing they could offer: hot bowls of instant noodles?

      Wouldn’t you think such a rejection was mind-boggling petty and, as I originally said, extremely poor form?

      In democracies or representative democracies, there is a disconnect between the people and government. We elect people who are supposed to reflect our views, but often they do not. therefore, people do not equal the government. We are not our government and our government is not us. In China, there is often an association that follows people = nation = government. If they maintain that view, they will often overreact to outside political statements or gestures.

      Yes, I understand there is a difference between people and government. It’s one of the things I have often previously criticized others (and you) for confusing. Since you’ve accepted that this rejection was a political statement, I’m going to tell you that however separate and different the people and its government are, they are irrefutably connected.

      Remember, critics of this refusal were not just suggesting that it was political and meant to insult China, but that it could also embarrass the KMT Ma government friendly to Beijing. This is why people suspected this was DPP manuevering. The people’s actions can only embarass its government if the government is connected and seen as representative of the people. It is not 100% correlation, but no one is arguing that.

      Likewise, you overcomplicate the reason for why Chinese people are offended by these Taiwanese villagers and many anti-China Taiwanese netizens. You’re suggesting that the Chinese see the Taiwanese people’s rejection of Chinese government aid for the purposes of denying the Chinese government legitimacy as an affront to the Chinese people themselves…and they shouldn’t, because they should see themselves separate from their government.

      How about the Chinese just being angry that their government spent national resources helping the Taiwanese, instead of the never-ending list of things that need money domestically, and the Taiwanese flipped them the bird for it?

      Seriously, many of the Chinese aren’t even thinking nearly so politically about this. They think: “Alright, the Taiwanese helped us after Sichuan, it makes sense for us to return the favor. But what? They’re not saying our shit is poison?! Fuck them!”

      And that’s why the Chinese are upset. Do you think this is an overreaction? Your accusation that the Chinese are overreacting here requires a complicated supposition of the representative relationship between people and government in international affairs. Can’t we just simplify it and say rejecting aid and then insinuating evil or evil intent on the aid-giver is poor form?

      Sorry, but this one is just horrible reasoning on your part. 1.) The Bush-bashers were being compared to the Taiwanese, not the Chinese.

      I didn’t interpret your comparison of Bush-bashers to the Chinese, but to the Taiwanese as you intended. What made you think I got it the other way?

      2.) it would not be better compared to California vs. the rest of the United States debating over gay marraige. It is a fundamental philosophy difference in for of governance – democracy vs. totalitarianism, much like the fundamental difference in use of force around the globe – pre-emptive force vs. defensive force.

      I wasn’t referring to gay marriage alone. You didn’t offer a reason for why “it would not be better compared to” either. Fairly, I didn’t either previously, as I wasn’t sure if you knew what I was referring to and secretly hoping you’d see the connection if you did, so I’ll explain now:

      Why am I making the analogy that Taiwan is to China as California is to the United States in this scenario? Because I’m trying to explain the complicated sentiments Chinese people have towards Taiwan. California is undeniably part of the United States, yet many in the United States outside of California often find California’s politics or its’ people’s politics to be strongly objectionable, to the point they often joke about having California secede. Likewise, many Chinese people (whether you or I like it or not) see Taiwan as an undeniable part of China, yet find Taiwanese politics or its people’s politics to be strongly objectionable, to the point they often joke about , for example, just neutron bombing the place and repopulating it with their own.

      The analogy was made with respect to this point, the sense of shared identity (being part of the Chinese nation) but the resentment over individual views on various matters, mostly political.

      The reason I said this analogy was better than the Americans vs. European Bush-bashers anaolgy you gave is because your analogy does not account for this complicated, if largely unilateral, shared identity relationship. Americans see the European Bush-bashers as completely separate outsiders. The Chinese see the Taiwanese as part of themselves rejecting the rest of itself. The former is disagreement. The latter has overtones of betrayal. Insofar as your analogy represented differences of politics and opinion, it was fine, but I offered my analogy as better because it accounted for the importance of identity between the two parties.

      Now, I’m not saying analogy is perfect, but I think it is more nuanced and, insofar as explaining the Chinese reaction, more representative than your’s. The Chinese reaction to Taiwan’s politics is more analagous to the reaction of non-Californian Americans to California’s politics than it is to European Bush-bashers to America’s politics…FROM the perspective of the Chinese.

      3.) and, you cannot claim a people.

      Uh, what are you referring to?

      The Chinese can argue the claim for the territory of Taiwan, and I will listen. But, anyone who throws out that recited BS about peaceful reunification is an idiot.

      Recited BS about peaceful runification? Why is it BS and why is anyone hopeful for peaceful reunification an idiot?

      Taiwan is an island once controlled by the government of China. The people who did not want the form of government that was soon to be imoposed on the mainland, fled to Taiwan. They are no longer Chinese by nationality, only common ethnicity.

      Not quite, cmfeirs. You’re forgetting that the vast majority of people who fled to Taiwan were part of the government that lost in China, not necessarily just neutral people making a decision about political ideologies. You’re also forgetting that the government of Taiwan WAS the government of the nation of China (Republic of China), and for decades represented all of China and hoped to reclaime their lost territory. It is not as if these people fled to Taiwan and left their government behind. They brought their government over and only in recent times has relinguished its claim over the rest of China, during which more people sought instead to foster and establish an independent “Taiwanese” identity. Some did so because they always saw themselves as distinct from the Chinese (ex. those with more aboriginal bloodlines). Some did so because they saw the idea of reclaiming the mainland as no longer entertainable, much less feasible. Some simply decided there has been enough differentiated development and history to strike out a new identity. Others are content to acknowledge differences in development but aren’t quite ready to forget their common heritage.

      We know the people in Taiwan (for anyone sensitive to word choice, please note that I will use “Taiwanese” and “people in Taiwan” interchangably) do not conisder themselves part of the mainland Chinese nation governed by the CCP and hence do not belong to that nation. But the vast majority of people who see the people in Taiwan as “Chinese” are referring NOT to strict legal nationality but to a persistent and evident shared culture, heritage, even identity. (I understand these words are subject to semantic wrangling, but I’m praying you get what I’m saying here.)

      Should Russians feel they have a claim on the people of Alaska? Should the British feel they have a claim on the people of India?

      Terribly oversimplified analogies. The Russian or British governments and their supporters never transplanted themselves to Alaska or India following a massive civil war. These analogies disrespect the complex history between mainland China and Taiwan, and your intelligence if you’re aware of that history.

      Peaceful reunification is coded language for conquering a people and their ideology.

      Okay, it is clear by your characterization of the peaceful reunification idea that you actually aren’t aware or knowledgable about the China-Taiwan issue and history.

      Using that as a defense for the hatred towards the Taiwanese in this post is ridiculous.

      I did what? I defended the hatred towards Taiwanese in this post? Where? Quote me.

      I just dont think it is a statement or reflection on the Chinese people. And, it should not be so personalized by the average Chinese person in the street.

      But it sorta is a reflection on the Chinese people, don’t you think? If someone says the stuff your country makes is possibly dangerous, wouldn’t you take some measure of personal offense to it? It isn’t as if some faceless entity known only as the “CCP” are working in these factories making these prefab houses or other products. It’s the Chinese people themselves. Sure, not necessarily for each individual, but is the collective identity that difficult to understand? I don’t think it is difficult to go from “you don’t trust what we make” to “you don’t trust us…even when we’re giving millions in humanitarian aid…that we could really use for ourselves…but we were trying to repay a favor…and be nice.”

      I understand your general point about taking political statements against a government personally, even if it is your government. I agree with it, but I don’t think the Chinese are remotely unique in it, just as Taiwanese people defend their democracy as still being a democracy even as legislators are laughed at for their fist fights, and just as you, as an American, still defend the basic system of the American republic when someone criticizes the Supreme Court instead of the people electing presidents. I just don’t think understanding the Chinese reaction in this incident needs to be that complicated.

  24. Cmfeirs wrote one of the most illegible comments that I’ve read. Theres very little sense in what he is writing and he is more or less waffles about things that he knows nothing about.

    There is one China – this includes Hong Kong, Macau, Peoples Republic of China and the Republic of China. You gotta love rubbing that statement in the face of pro-taiwan or Hong Kong people. Nothing infuriates them more than hearing they are Chinese and not Hongkies or Taiwanese. Yet such a statement couldn’t be closer to the truth.

    The fact is that The Republic of China is part of China. This is recognised by the United Nations, and most developed countries including the United States of America, the United Kingdom.

    Taiwan is not a sovereign country but a rebel state belonging to Greater China. Personally, I find it funny that Taiwanese people are getting so frustrated. The only defence they have is by saying ‘China is bullying the rest of the world into rejecting our plea for independence’ or that ‘we have our own currency, government, etc.’ To be honest, I don’t think most Chinese give a $hit. Their mentality is “you guys lost the civil war so stfu and suck my mainland $#$%.’

    I’ve got Russian friends here who ask ‘whats with the China still not exerting complete control over Taiwan? They say China rising to be a world superpower, it still hasn’t silenced a small island full of retards?’

    It’s only a matter of time now until peaceful reunification :)

    • While I agree with your assessment of cmfeirs’ comment, I have yet to read his latest one and I haven’t enough time to properly reply to what you wrote above, much of which I either disagree with or hold more nuanced views on. I’ll try to explain my reasons why later tonight or tomorrow. Have a dinner to prepare for. Cheers, whichever Charles you are!

      • Charles,

        The fact is that The Republic of China is part of China. This is recognised by the United Nations, and most developed countries including the United States of America, the United Kingdom.

        Only if you define sovereignty with recognition by the United Nations or other countries. Semantics is one of the sticky points with determining “what” Taiwan is.

        I prefer to judge Taiwan as a sovereign nation by the mere fact that it governs itself and cannot be governed/controled/influenced by outside forces (such as Beijing) any more than most other countries.

        Taiwan is not a sovereign country but a rebel state belonging to Greater China.

        I disagree. I’m willing to entertain the notion that Taiwan is part of a larger identity that could be referred to as a Chinese nation, but not a specific political entity known as the People’s Republic of China. I am willing to say that the nation of China is currently governed by the CCP, but (much to the consternation of the CCP) the CCP is not China itself. China is China, a nation of people sharing a common culture and heritage, but it is not the CCP though mainland China is politically represented by it just as Taiwan or the people of Taiwan is politically represented by the KMT right now.

        Taiwan is not a rebel state and can only be characterized as a rebel state by those who suppose a historical ownership of Taiwan. As far as I know, the PRC has never owned or controlled the territory of Taiwan (whereas the KMT/ROC can boast otherwise). In fact, the only way the PRC can claim ownership is by appealing to the fact that the previous government(s) of the nation of China that it currently governs had control. However, the difference between, say, the Democrats having claim over America versus the CCP having claim over Taiwan is that the Democrats came to power through the existing political system, not by overthrowing or usurping it through civil war. It surely can claim Taiwan in the future through various acts, but I find it academically false to claim it has always belonged to the PRC, much less the CCP. To “China” sure, but the whole “China is the CCP, so anything that belongs to China belongs to the CCP” is an error in logic.

        Seriously though, this subject has been beaten to death by those far more vocal about it than us. Suffice to say, I reiterate that Taiwan is not a “rebel” state belonging to the PRC and is a de facto independent nation that doesn’t get recognized internationally as such for political reasons and not because it doesn’t live up to the definition of the word.

        In saying this, I am not arguing for or against eventual reunification. I am just stating the facts of the present and past as I see it. For the record, however, I actually do think reunification with mainland China (not necessarily the CCP government) would most likely be in Taiwan’s best interests, but I do not think the time is now, nor do I begrudge anyone who doesn’t feel the time is now. Significant change, I think, must occur in mainland China before the people of Taiwan will be comfortable that their interests will be protected and served in reunification.

        • Kai, I am not an expert on politics however I have done reading on the topic of Taiwan. I agree that the topic has been beaten to death and I certainly have much less knowledge than those who are more ‘vocal’ than us. However, the majority of my reading inclines towards the fact that:

          1.) Taiwan is not a country
          2.) Taiwan is not a sovereign nation
          3.) Taiwan is a rebel state belonging to Greater China

          To simplify this reply I will write in dot points so that it will be easier for you to rebut a specifc point rather than having to search through entire paragraphs.

          1

          a) Taiwan is not reocognised as a sovereign nation by United Nations and its members.

          (b)Political debate has been about Taiwan separating or claiming independance from China – this wording would implicitly imply that Taiwan is not considered an independent country.

          (c) Recently, Chinese anti-secession law allows a Chinese military attack on Taiwan to prevent the island from seeking independence.

          (d) The Olympics, which publically promotes sports over politics disallowed Taiwan to enter under even the Republic of China name. Taiwan was not allowed to play their national anthem and were registered as Chinese Taipei and prohibited to use their flag.

          2/3

          (a) Based on the reasoning that Taiwan is not an independent country in itself, this would correlate to the fact that Taiwan is a renegade/rebel country.

          (b) Based on your definition:

          (i) that Taiwan governs itself – this is not a distinguishing key factor of sovereignty – I could mention HK is the same but you are of course are emphasising the differences as being the key exceptions to why Taiwan is different. I’ll address this below.

          (ii) cannot be governed/controlled/influenced by outside forces such as Beijing

          - this could be poor wording on your behalf, but I’m sure that you are relying on (iii) to pull you out of it. As far as I’m aware, Taiwan can be controlled and influenced in more than one way through both Chinese legislation and international pressure both economically and politically by the PRC.

          (iii) any more than most countries (key point ^^)

          - Unfotunately, I dont think that this sneaky part of the sentence will help you here.

          China osentsibly has more control over Taiwan than most other countries. Not only do they have overwhelming political support but they are legally entitled through their own legislation – which I assume also has international support – to force Taiwan from declaring independance, seeing that it would be an internal affair. The United States would be bound by treaty to protect Taiwan if this happens, however this is a separate matter.

          Concluding remarks:

          The overwhelming debate about Taiwanese independance revolves around the acceptance of Taiwan being a region and not an independant country.

          As I mentioned in the previous post, there are political issues involved in the reason why Taiwan is not recognised as a country. However this does not change what is already considered a fact by the United Nations and most international organisations around the world.

          I believe that the Peoples Republic of China is claiming sovereignty of Taiwan is justified.

          (i) Firstly on the fact that Taiwan has not recognised as a sovereign country.

          (ii) The constitution of both the ROC and PRC recognises Taiwan as a province.

          (iii) When the Republic of China was in control of Mainland, led by the KMT. They were able to exercise sovereignty over the Mainland. The Republic of China continued to claim to be the sole legitimate government of China even after losing the civil war.

          While this is a positive statement which in itself is not relevant directly to the topic, we can still infer some important reasoning from it. If the Republic of China felt it could claim over the mainland, why could the PRC not claim sovereignty over Taiwan based on the same reasoning that a previous government which governed the nation of China now controls Taiwan – reverse logic.

          Peaceful reunification was not something I wanted to address – it was merely to poke fun at Cmfeirs. However, there reunification here is not used in its truse sense as Taiwan is not an independent country. Re-unification in government possibly.

          I need to point out that based on reverse logic on Taiwan’s continous claim to sovereignty over the mainland; based on the current stance of the United Nations; based on Chinese legislation and its impact on Taiwanese sovereignty; and based on Taiwan’s own view that it is not an independent country, that it is safe to infer that Taiwan is not a country by any standard and thus is only a renegade province that belongs to the PRC at this stage.

          Your comment about error of logic does not apply here. I would not say that Taiwan has always belonged to the PRC. However the ROC ceased to be a legitimate government upon the succession of the PRC which under the succession of states theory gives control to the PRC.

          Most importantly is that the constitution of the ROC states that Taiwan is a province of China which is not an independent country. As the PRC governs China, it also asserts sovereignty over the province which is Taiwan.

          You can feel free to continue and argue but I think that the stance of the United Nations more than justifies the mainstream view of Chinese Sovereignty which they continually to publically endorse. Whether this is due to heavy political pressure or not, this is not particularly useful for anyone regarding what is an objective fact that is internationally recognised.

    • the great yellow master race

      The fact is that The Republic of China is part of China.–
      another fact is that republic of china ocupated taiwan after WW2. i support the reunification if chinese ocupants will left taiwanese alone and go back to mainland in a same way they came to this island..

      how does it tastes you?

  25. That is true, unfortunately we mainland Chinese have no other places to vent our anger, since unlike the free democracies of the world, we cannot criticize our own government!

    • Yeah, it seems like criticism towards the CCP is discouraged here in China….and the government simultaenously makes Japan the perpetual boogeyman/scapegoat so that the Chinese people have someone to hate.

  26. Why do Chinamen make such a big deal about getting Taiwan back when their former territory of Outer Mongolia is bigger, richer in natural resources and much easier to invade?

    The Republic of China (Taiwan) still holds claim to Outer Mongolia

    The Chinese lost control of Taiwan BEFORE they lost control of Outer Mongolia

    So why not?

    Ohh that’s right, Mao didn’t want to upset his Soviet puppetmasters and the modern day Mao’s would rather not draw attention to that fact

    LOL @ these idiots who think that the ROK and Taiwan are pro-American cocksuckers, in fact we get to vote for people who talk shit about them but we still get to buy first class weapons, we’re the ones playing them. Maybe if your Communist bandits hadn’t been so trigger happy twenty years ago you’d still be able to buy yourselves a modern military.

    Power grows from the antenna of a phased array radar

    • Chinamen? What is this? Some western cowboy lynching a Chinaman?

      You sure are commenting negatively a lot on a country that’s keeping you fed. Where would Korea (N and S) be if they didn’t become the BITCH of the US and China?

      • There are Frenchmen, Irishmen, Chinamen and many others. Only one of them are so fucking insecure that they cry about their name.

        WHY ARE THE CHINAMEN SO AFRAID OF WHO THEY ARE?

        • They’re called the CHINESE. “Chinamen” is a derogatory name. Kinda like bang zi, no?

          Learn your English.

        • Because you dumbass, “chinaman” is a derogatory word that’s used negatively to comment about Chinese people. It’s on par with the word, “nigger”.

          Read a fuckin’ book you inborn hick.

          • the great yellow master race

            i like the great yellow master race more.. its hit the point of our culture and coexistense. and now bow down and lick ma shoes, or you are inferior racist from barbarian country!!

            WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! THE WORLD IS OUR!!!! WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

  27. Fruits of a poisonous tree never tastes sweet
    guess that goes to yall 21st century chino-taiwanese

    Comments filled with conviction,makes one wonder what kinda parents raised yall mainland-hating nitwits. Spread love,not what you heard!

    Typhoon strucked,Mainland offered aids,brainwashed island villager declined…so why criticize the donor?
    Most cockasians,caucasians,or darkies hating on china still in some ways benefits from her,why mocking baselessly?

    Lastly, Peace to the souls of each and every victim,peace unto the wounded and peace to CHINA

  28. bubble kushy: I don’t benifit from the existence of China, it’s unwanted competition for our heavy manufacturing sector (I work for Daewoo Shipbuilding) and my boss rents me out as consultant to some idiots who in the boring shithole you call Tianjin about three times a year. I get sent there because they think I like China, kekekeke…..actually it’s because I’m hungry enough for promotion that I pretend to like China.

    Do not every pretend to like China, you will end up fucked like me

    • So your boss pimps you out to China even though you secretly hate it? Sounds like a bi!ch job.

      • Is there any other kind of job???!??!!!1

        If the world was perfect I’d run my own company that made missiles that got pointed at Tiajin and Japan but life isn’t like that welcome to the real world you dumb fuck

        • So even in this perfect world of yours, you’d only point these missiles at China and Japan?

          If situation were reversed I think a perfect world would at least start with Korea not be such a tiny country, that I’d have the balls to fire said missiles without fearing retaliations that would surely and completely destroy my puny, bitch of a country before my pimp the U.S. has a chance to rescue me from the communists and japs, again. Plus in this world I’d have everyone like rotten veggie smell so people don’t call Koreans kimchi breath all the time.

          Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.

        • Actually, there are other kinds of jobs. I have a perfect job. Decent salary, good vacation time, love my work, don’t have to do things that I hate, and I while I don’t exactly jump for joy at the idea of waking up in the morning, at least I don’t hate it. You have a very negative world view “playa”, hope things can get better for you one day.

  29. taiwan is part of china?

  30. charles sounds like a shoe shinner. 100%

  31. Sad… Some Chinese don’t trust other chinese, they’d rather trust foreigners so much as if those foreigners are their step-parents!
    Their grand grand parents must be turning in their graves, I’m afraid.

    • Wouldn’t it be kind of naive to only trust people who belong to your ethnic group?

      Oh wait, I almost forgot which country I’m in.

      Sorry for trying to bring logic into this.

  32. Pussy fayka(pusan playa),no one questioned your occupation. Glad you figured how “fucked up like me” you are,thats a start… now please go ahead rant about the subject on board,I’m sure readers enjoying your moronic comments. “kekekeke”

    (abn amro)
    If taiwan wasnt part of china,guess Its a district part of Iran,right?

  33. bubble diu lei lo mou chao hai i love your humor. chao h

  34. Defend as in verbal, not physical. Just walk into any heavily populated place in China and start shouting out anti China slogans and see what happens. At the very least, a few arguments.——–

    whahahahahaha.. local party members will gather together and when their superiors will send ok they will atack you. aside that tell me more about “anti China slogans” never heard only one in my whole life..

    —WWII wise, it’s not like the Chinese didn’t put up a fight.—

    yeah sure.. thats why Chian employed whole army of criminals and human traficers to get new soldiers into his armies..

    —-The Chinese were simply outclassed in technology.—

    WHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. gosh what a bullshit.. “Plain and simple.”

    —You had guys with swords and really outdated rifles charging guys with machine guns. Guess who’s going to win that one.—-

    you must be talking about the boxer rebelion arent you?

    —-There are basically two reasons that the Nazis didn’t take Russia. 1) Winter and 2) the sheer size or Russia.—-

    WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

    —-Same deal with China. If Japan and China had gone toe to toe without outside interference, Japan would NEVER be able to take and hold the mainland. Just think how many soldiers they would need to occupy a country the size of China.—

    “IF”.. size of China was always inside of 4 chinese provinces. you loser should realy to stop projecting the PRC with all ocupated countries inside to “country the size of China”.

  35. Can you blame them?

  36. iran is part of china?

  37. Charles, you must not be that bright. My comment was a reply to kai. Some of the comments were his cut and pasted with my replies to his statements. Perhaps, you should read the entire post before making an ass of yourself???? Kai, I do look forward to your reply. And to all the Chinese who still want to claim Taiwan is part of China because of history (as well as Tibet, and parts of Mongolia), you should really ask yourself why you need to unify. If they don’t want to be a part of your system, are you going to try and force them? and if so, why do you need to force your system on others? Shouldn’t they want to be a part of greater China if the system is so harmonious????

    • No, your comments were illegible because of poor grammer, syntax and you provided poor analogies and expressions of view. According to your last post, I wonder if you know what a paragraph means.

    • cmfeirs,

      If they don’t want to be a part of your system, are you going to try and force them? and if so, why do you need to force your system on others?

      I hear similar things between Californians and non-Californians over state and domestic-American political issues all the time. That’s why I raised that analogy earlier. Over issues such as the one you offered, gay marriage, or others like environmental policies, there’s often a lot of strong and even resentful disagreement between Californians and non-Californians where one side feels the the other side is infringing and enforcing certain ideologies and politics upon it or one side feels the other is embarrassing or influencing the country in a direction it doesn’t support. And you’ll get people saying California should secede from the rest of the hickville union or non-Californians suggesting California be made an island.

      I also think you’re mistaking the motivation for reunification stemming from a desire to impose one’s system upon another. The China-Taiwan issue is NOT about democracy vs. communist (totalitarian/single-party dictatorship/etc.) ideologies. The appeal is for reunification of a “family” divided by civil war. Both the KMT and the CCP credit Sun Yat-Sen for bringing China out of the feudal dynastic age and trying to modernize China to meet the challenges of the modern world. Both wanted China to be stronger than it was. They just had different ideologies, fought, and one basically lost. It isn’t about forcing the winning ideology (since that ideology isn’t even what it once was) on the loser now, it’s just about getting back together because there’s an inherent appeal to being unified with those you identify with, and yes, despite the mountains of differences, the Chinese still consider the people in Taiwan to be their brothers, estranged as they are by a past conflict.

      As I said above, I don’t think you really understand the China-Taiwan issue if you’re framing it as one side trying to force its system on the other. That is not the issue at all.

      Shouldn’t they want to be a part of greater China if the system is so harmonious????

      I agree. Taiwan will want to be part of greater China when reunification with mainland China promises more potential advantages than disadvantages. That just isn’t the case right now, but I personally think China is becoming more and more attractive as it develops. This is why I think it will eventually be in Taiwan’s interests to align and reunify with China. It is prudent and pragmatic to be part of something strong than languish alone in relative weakness and, frankly, China is more likely to accept Taiwan than the United States ever will. The Taiwanese are a pragmatic lot too. May have something to do with their Chinese heritage.

      • Kai,

        You made some great points in your posts, however I think that your reasoning regarding motivation from the CCP and most mainland Chinese for reunification, while not wrong, is bit too politically correct. There are myriad other emotional and strategic calculus at work here on top of the shared history/cultural which I believe are far more compelling reasons to reunify with Taiwan.

        The surge of nationalism in recent decades – in no small part deliberately fostered by the CCP – continues to swell with the GDP and will not indefinitely tolerate another ‘rogue’ government of China. A separated Taiwan is an uncomfortable reminder of the century of humiliation China suffered and the overcoming of those humiliation is the basis CCP claim to legitimacy. Furthermore, Chinese kids are hammered with the idea that “Taiwan is an inseparable part of China, and will be reunified peacefully or otherwise”, from elementary school and is repeated drilled into minds of Chinese at every opportunity. So successful is this the spread of this idea that support for war, should it come to that, is virtually guaranteed. The flip side is present the future leaders will not have any room to waiver on this point, or it will critically undermine the foundation of CCP.

        Moreover, Taiwan is strategically situated between China and the rest of the Pacific Ocean. On the one hand it offers the Chinese navy the only point to penetrate the so called “first island chain”, on the other, it makes the strait of Taiwan an internal waterway that will do much to protect China oil/energy route while at the same time give China positional advantage over the countries like South Korea and Japan whose oil tankers pass through much of the same waters. It also will improve China’s claim on nearby contested territories such as Senkaku/Diaoyutai and Spratly Islands.

        Finally I am pessimistic that the current trend of closer economic ties will ever make Taiwan want to reunify with the mainland, even if dramatic political and economic improvements were to occur. The deepening ties are merely carrots of the CPC after repeated use of the stick appeared counterproductive. It is stabilizing only in so far as to prevent sudden shifts of Taiwan’s political atmosphere but making it a more costly decision. Common history and cultural ties might make two places more willing to cooperate politically but that is far from unifying, examples such as Australia, New Zealand, and Canada with respect to the United Kingdom come to mind (though I admit I don’t know much about the history here).

  38. mumbo: Native Americans just called. They want their occupied country back!

    • Native Americans still live in America.

      • just not the part they used to reside.

      • Yes, Native Americans still reside in the US. However, in all my 20+ years of living in the US, I’ve NEVER seen a full blooded Native American before.

        I pity the one race that has been wiped off the face of the earth and despise the US for completing a TRUE genoicide.

        • the great yellow master race

          i pitty you. you are not only an just idiot but brainwashed idiot who knows a shit about the topic wich he is trying to make out.

          • Once again . . . this coming from the guy with grammar so fuckin’ poor that I can’t make out what he’s trying to say exactly. That and you call yourself what?

            I bet you’re like a 5’5 120lbs little girl of a man that hides behind his monitor and surfs the net for the wrong reasons. Go outside and find yourself a life, ok?

        • Well, I guess it depends on what part of the US you’re from.

          I have also lived for over 20 years in America…mostly in California but I’ve also lived in Illinois and Tennessee.

          Anyway, if you want to see native americans I suggest taking a trip to Arizona and New Mexico. Everytime I’ve been to those states I’ve encountered full-blooded native americans.

          You’re right about the european settlers commiting genocide though…total shame because I love native american culture.

        • If they’ve been wiped out they aren’t doing much contemplating.

          If you lived in Beijing your whole life you might think there aren’t any Zhuang people in China, but almost half of Guangxi are Zhuang. I know people who’ve lived in Idaho their whole life and have never seen a black person… what does that mean? No black people in Idaho? In America? Or those people just don’t get out much.

  39. I bet the same people who are upset that some Taiwanese are rejecting Chinese aid are the same people who couldn’t be happier when Japanese aid was slowed/rejected during the aftermath of the Sichuan earthquake last year.

    Yeah but only Taiwan is wrong…sure. :S

    • You raise a good point Matt. While I understand what you mean and can see the ironic recurrence of events, I don’t think it’s too hypocritical to appreciate that the the older generation Chinese who lived through the atrocities during the Japanese invasion aren’t thrilled to have Japanese military on Chinese soil again, even when delivering aid; while they at the same time feel upset that the Taiwanese, 98% of whom are Han Chinese declared the pre-fab homes were poisonous before they arrived.

      By the way, the Chinese accepted the aid but they were later sent on commercial planes rather than military helicopters.

      • the great yellow master race

        hn chinese are living in Han-China. Taiwan is not Han China. neither does the “oversea parasite, aehmm.. comrades” fit here in..

  40. Charles, at least spell grammar correctly before you criticize. Once again you made an ass of yourself criticizing something you can’t even spell. And, I’d love for you to tell me what syntax means without having to use Wiki before responding to this post. I doubt your understanding of the word syntax goes beyond a word associated with writing. Was it a word your English teacher used in high school? Do you like to use it because you think others don’t know it and you look smart? The comments are just that – comments. They’re not essays. Anyone who would post without errors in standard grammar or syntax is a tool with too much time on their hands. However, I have a strong feeling that does not apply to you. I am sure you spend most of your time on the computer with something besides time in your hand.

  41. Cmfeirs, you are a complete idiot. I’m not going to be pedantic enough to spell check a comment that I took ten seconds to write.

    On the contrary, I couldn’t think of a better word than syntax to describe your poor composition of words to make sentences.

    In fact, syntax aside, I found what you were actually talking about was such a load of rubbish, that it wasn’t even worth a reply.

    You bring up analogies and then support them with one liners which don’t necessarily make sense. Yet poor Kai will probably waste an hour rebutting something that came out of your a$$ in ten minutes.

    Hahaha… Oh well, don’t get to agitated, keep your chin up son.

  42. Guys, i’ve been trying to figure out exactly what does WC means regarding to Washrooms / restrooms in China?

    What does it stands for!

    • WC = water closet

      • the great yellow master race

        Once again . . . this coming from the guy with grammar so fuckin’ poor that I can’t make out what he’s trying to say exactly. That and you call yourself what?

        I bet you’re like a 5′5 120lbs little girl of a man that hides behind his monitor and surfs the net for the wrong reasons. Go outside and find yourself a life, ok?—

        i still pity you being an brainwashed idiot who knows a shit about he is trying to make new topic up.. aside that its ok to be insulted by pitifully retarted people you are the one.. <– perfectly english gramar for you. i hope you are not that much of idiot to know how english gramar does work.

      • Thank you mate! Your answer reflected your personality. You don’t waste time.
        @ the grand great -ellow master race….
        (positive)
        Thank you as well. Two ways for everything, one being positive and other negative, and i’m sure you don’t have to be a stupid to know, what you choose.
        . This fkin brainwashed, is living his part of live way better than yours Mr.great. Bad grammar will be called bad whether you mistake more (following phrase)or less until one gets the perfection.

        Mine isn’t as bad as this (heys ppls mines names is _____! m good boys! i loved to had fun! and wat else! and and wants to got goods grades i luvs to made news friends! m a very very happy person! wants to lived ma lifes in a goods manners! i donts wants to teses anybodies! and and! i really hates ppl talkings about sex all the times! nd yes yes i donts know why i donts know)
        I can explain myself to many. But, I agree I haven’t learn english at all so…
        (negative)
        Seems like you’d lived your life that way. You won’t be ta..er than 5’8+ lol!

        (The more you speak, more you expose yourself!)

        • the great yellow master race

          hmmmmmmmmmm….

          —————post of J—————–

          Once again . . . this coming from the guy with grammar so fuckin’ poor that I can’t make out what he’s trying to say exactly. That and you call yourself what?

          I bet you’re like a 5′5 120lbs little girl of a man that hides behind his monitor and surfs the net for the wrong reasons. Go outside and find yourself a life, ok?—

          ———————my answer——————–
          i still pity you being an brainwashed idiot who knows a shit about he is trying to make new topic up.. aside that its ok to be insulted by pitifully retarted people you are the one.. <– perfectly english gramar for you. i hope you are not that much of idiot to know how english gramar does work.

          the whole topic is about…

          aside that i give a shit about english.

          • “perfectly english gramar for you. i hope you are not that much of idiot to know how english gramar does work.”

            This is BRILLIANT.

            Part of me suspects that “great yellow master race” is some white guy posing as a Chinese boy.

          • Shut the _ up! You are a full stop lol! Trying to answer every person’s post with full of your hateful, disgusting, negative views. Are you worker,lad!, nah! I don’t think so, You will be an unemployed dude. Wasting your arse n practical creativity in front of PC.
            Its about character not the skill. You judge by skills, n I don’t see any special characteristics in you. Just an ignorant. ” I don’t give a shit about english” then wtf! are you wasting your little brain power discussing with me. I got my answer. 2 posts and nobody knows. But its your DUTY to present your views about every single person. How many times your posts have been fkn Praised by ppl???
            My english sucks so, someday it’ll be fine if i don’t meet ppl like u in my life. I can judge your type by face.

            GOD bless you and may He show you the right way to guide yourself and to others.
            Mr. Perfectly and fastly responsive! (LOL)

          • There are grammar mistakes, lets see you give a shit ’bout them or just _ks up as you always do.

  43. What the heck is wrong with them Taiwanese? Can’t believe they think Chinese products are toxic! Not all Chinese products are toxic, and not all toxic products come from China!

  44. why we argue over something that we have no control over? at the end of the day we still need to eat and go to work. so just think of ways to earn more money.

  45. haha

    taiwanese

    wtf is that???

    America isnt seriously thinking of defending that little thing right? Most we’ll do is destroy ourselves by slapping economic sanctions on China for 4-6 months

  46. I remember about 2-3 years ago the internet in China almost stopped completely [so I'm told] because the cables under the sea between Taiwan and China broke. What I really think happened is at night all the taiwanese got out their paddles and tried to paddle away and hide in the Phillipines.

    • the great yellow master race

      they will welcome another bunch of chinese ocupans who are rulling aehmm ruining their coutry anyway by triads and chinese economical dominance already

  47. Professor Sillypants

    I don’t understand why people think that China is so rich. Far more Taiwanese money is invested in places like Fujian, Guangdong, and Zhejiang than vice-versa.

    It’s certainly a shame that the majority of the world doesn’t recognize Taiwan as a part of China. It should be a part of China, even if it was wrested away by America’s involvement. A shame.

    Similarly disappointing is the Tibet issue. Tibet shouldn’t be a part of China, even though it is.

    People argue with me about the Taiwan issue. I agree with them to a point; Taiwan shouldn’t be separate from China. But it is. They say, “One country, two systems”, the same mindless semantics that are used for a host of other things, including the economy. They point out HK and say, “See – it’s still China; one country, two systems” Look at the parliament/government of each area – HK and Taiwan. The Chinese gov’t has intervened many times in HK affairs, overturning laws that were established by the local gov’t (I think the count is around 150+). How many times has this been true in Taiwan? 0.

    If Nigeria declares that China is actually a part of Nigeria, that doesn’t make it so. Governments control “their own” country only to the extent that they actually have say in their “own” countries’ affairs.

  48. considering that the state-owned company, three deer(三鹿), produced toxic milk powder to poison millions of Chinese babies. Then we shall feel comfort when Taiwan reacts in this way.

  49. From Charles:

    –The fact is that The Republic of China is part of China. This is recognised by the United Nations, and most developed countries including the United States of America, the United Kingdom. –

    No, it’s not.

    Taiwan is not a sovereign country but a rebel state belonging to Greater China. Personally, I find it funny that Taiwanese people are getting so frustrated. The only defence they have is by saying ‘China is bullying the rest of the world into rejecting our plea for independence’ or that ‘we have our own currency, government, etc.’ To be honest, I don’t think most Chinese give a $hit. Their mentality is “you guys lost the civil war so stfu and suck my mainland $#$%.’ –

    Fact? Do some research. The rights to the island of Taiwan were signed over by the Japanese to the USA in the Treaty of San Francisco. The US still owns it. There were 3 communiques with China and all they state is that the US recognized that China thinks they own Taiwan.

    I can recognize that you think you’re right, but it doesn’t make it a fact. It’s just legalese so China can maintain face.

    Look it up. Even to this day, the US-Taiwan relations act is DOMESTIC US policy. Same sort of policy that governs Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands.

    This is why the US must keep arming Taiwan and defend it in case of attack. It’s still technically a military occupied territory under the protection of the US armed services.

    • No, I’m right. In fact, the US presidents Bush and Clinton publicly agreed that Taiwan belonged to one China.

      The United States of America signed a treaty with America to protect Taiwan. This does not equate to the United States owning Taiwan.

      Based on what you are saying, only two things can be inferred:

      1.) That Taiwan is a sovereign country?
      2.) The US ‘owns’ taiwan

      We both know that none of these are true. So next time, rather than doing a five minute google search, do some proper reading son.

      Good try though :)

      • –No, I’m right. In fact, the US presidents Bush and Clinton publicly agreed that Taiwan belonged to one China.

        The United States of America signed a treaty with America to protect Taiwan. This does not equate to the United States owning Taiwan.

        Based on what you are saying, only two things can be inferred:

        1.) That Taiwan is a sovereign country?
        2.) The US ‘owns’ taiwan

        We both know that none of these are true. So next time, rather than doing a five minute google search, do some proper reading son.

        Good try though :–

        First off, Bush and Clinton “acknowledged” that China thinks it owns Taiwan, which is the equivalent of me “acknowledging” that you think you are intelligent. Doesn’t mean I believe it, nor does it make it a fact.

        Here, look at this:

        http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1103384

        Taiwan is not a sovereign country. The ROC is still a government “in exile”. The US is now and has been since 1952, the sovereign occupying power in Taiwan. Hence, the Taiwan relations act is DOMESTIC US policy and not FOREIGN policy. Because it’s technically a US territory. Maybe if you did more than 5 minutes of a Google search you’d learn something.

        Son.

        Nice try there. China GAVE Taiwan to the Japanese, and then they gave up rights to the island in the Treaty of San Francisco. To the US. Which is how it remains to this day.

        • Hahahaha DERF… So you are saying that Taiwan is a province of the United States of America to which they have sovereignty. Um……. sure….. what are you smoking?

          Son, if you are going to use Google, at least do it properly. Aside from that link hinting that Taiwan has a legal relationship with the US, it does not state anything else. A legal relationship could relate to me being the father of your children.

          Actually… courtesy aside you are a complete idiot =) The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Republic of India, Pakistan and Japan have formally adopted the One China policy, under which the People’s Republic of China is the sole legitimate government of China.

          Some notable facts (copy and pasted of course)

          Taiwan is an inseparable part of China’s territory since antiquity” and “both the 1943 Cairo Declaration and the 1945 Potsdam Declaration have reaffirmed in unequivocal terms China’s sovereignty over Taiwan as a matter of international law.

          and blah blah blah… I’m sorry, I’ve got no respect for idiots on the internet, *shrugs*.

          • No dude, you should learn how to read.

            You sir, are the idiot. Apparently you don’t understand what “domestic” means. Look it up, I’ll wait.

            “Taiwan is an inseparable part of China’s territory since antiquity”

            This is a straight out lie. China owned Taiwan for 17 years in the 19th century before giving it to Japan. For centuries, Chinese emperors wanted NOTHING to do with Taiwan. They only want it now because the ROC escaped there, and now it’s a face issue.

            “1943 Cairo Declaration and the 1945 Potsdam Declaration”

            Both not legal documents, so they DON’T MATTER. They set up terms for Japanese surrender, and obviously, since you don’t know history, the Japanese ignored them both and didn’t surrender until later, which makes both of these documents useless, hence the legal document that takes precedence is the Treaty of San Francisco, which was actually signed and recognized.

            And if I’m “so wrong”and “an idiot”, why, in February of 2009 was there a lawsuit by many Taiwanese to be granted US passports?

            Use the “google” to find out, you brainwashed chimp.

          • Hahaha DERF, still trying?

            China also has domestic legislation that allows a Chinese military attack on Taiwan to prevent the island from seeking independence.

            Fun more copy and paste ^^ below *for my idiot Derf*

            http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GA06Ad05.html

            Secretary of State Colin Powell and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, on various occasions, more explicitly endorsed the position that Taiwan is part of China; they showed more understanding of unification as China’s national aspiration, and expressed limitations of the US commitment to defend Taiwan, departing from the traditional strategic ambiguity on these issues.

            Son, why don’t you petition against the US embassy and exercise a class action law suit so that all people belonging to the Republic of China can have a US passport? I’ll give you my support… pretty please?

            You want the Republic of China to have a US passport, contact DERF, lol seriously, are you getting dumber by the minute. LOL, read my post to Kai for more information.

  50. Typo:

    The United States of America signed a treaty with the republic of China to protect Taiwan. This does not equate to the United States owning Taiwan.

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»