Young Girl Argues With Anti-Chinese French On Airplane

From Mop:

Chinese origin MM‘s heart very pained: On my flight, I reproached French people who discriminate against China!

It was on the plane to Paris, three weeks after the Olympic flame was obstructed in Paris.

jin-jing-olympic-torch-relay-paris-tibet-supporter

Next to me was a Westerner, his companions were also all around me. After takeoff, their conversations helped me determine their identities: a group of French tourists returning to their country.

This American airline company’s route to Europe very rarely has Asian flight attendants. So when an Asian stewardess began providing refreshments, everyone was surprised. A French guy sitting near me started his French-style romance, charging the Asian stewardess and saying: “This beautiful young lady is Japanese right?!”

The young lady looked at him and then looked at the five star red flag pin/brooch on her uniform before politely telling him: “No, sir, did you see this? I am Chinese.”

Suddenly without words, his expression cooled, giving people the feeling that he would have continued being enthusiastic had the lady responded that she was Japanese. The stewardess also felt his sudden change, turned her eyes to me, and asked me what I wanted. I used English to reply her.

As soon as the service cart continued forward, that French guy may have felt that what he just did was a little arrogant, and said to me “Sorry, the past few days that flag has been everywhere in France, I truly have had enough! What are they trying to do!”

Without waiting for him to finish, I hurriedly said: “Sorry, sir, I also come from that flag’s country.”

Perhaps he did not expect this, so his expression became a little stiff. He icily looked at me, and then turned to his food before him.

Afterward, as if I did not exist, he and his companions treated this airplane like a Parisian road-side cafe, chatting and drinking, pressing the stewardess call light, opening the window shades of the passenger cabin and allowing the sun to shine in.  I controlled my temper, and used my expression and body language to communicate my displeasure, plugging my ears with earplugs in front of them. I need to rest! I politely said to my neighbor: “Can you please close the window shade?”

I truly did not imagine he would answer me like this: “Sorry, young lady, this window seat is mine, the plane ticket was paid with my money, you have no right to request this of me!”

I was stunned for a long time, not knowing what to say!  This is the self-proclaimed friendliness, generosity, pursuit of romance and freedom of the French people? So what they were pursuing was their own freedom! I did not want the remainder of my journey to be spent in this kind of atmosphere, and concluded that their inhuman behavior was deliberate against us Chinese. I decided I may not be able to argue with them but at least I can avoid them!

Getting up, I walked to the work room at the back of the passenger cabin, and started a conversation with my distant compatriot. Aside from some small talk, she told me about her work experience. She said that amongst her work assignments, the France route gives her the most headaches because the passengers are too wanton, do not listen to the flight attendants, continue to walk around when the fasten seat belt light is on, that it is common for them to ask for 4-5 things each time they want something, and it is as if they have been wronged if it things are not done this way. Not only this, and perhaps as a result of of smoking, their mouths are very smelly. I said to her that people say Chinese passengers are also very difficult to handle. She said that the route between China and America is 14 hours, the route between America and France is 8 hours, and in comparison, Chinese passenger’s behavior is far better than French people. If French people were to sleep for that long of a time, it would be impossible to enter the passenger cabin [due to bad mouth odor]! She also said that she must admit, America is the country with the best personal hygiene in the world, the passengers basically do not have any mouth odor.

We chatted like this. I told her about what happened with my neighbor. She said, “there are all kinds of people, do not worry, you can come sit in the empty seat in the very last row.”

At this moment, my neighbor and several of his companions also come over! They were probably also tired of sitting. Upon seeing us two Chinese chatting, he provokingly said to another stewardess: “Chinese people are so pitiful, living in a country without freedom, look at the Communist Party’s masterpiece, brainwashing their own citizens, such a large country not allowing other religions to exist…”

At this moment, I could not endure it anymore! I asked him: “Have you been to China?”

“I do not even have the desire to go!”

“Then do not say anything!”

“You have no right to ask this of me!”

“You have even less right to make such personal remarks about what you do not know!”

“Young lady, do not be angry, can you understand why so many young people unscrupulously assemble on other country’s territory, expressing their dissatisfaction with everyone in the country? If this is not having been brainwashed, what could it be?”

foreign-chinese-show-support-for-china

“You truly do not understand modern China. Do you know the background these young people grew up in? Let me tell you, they are the 80s generation that were born after China’s reforms. Almost all of them are the only child in their families, whose parents provided them with everything they could. They are a self-confident, self-centered, generation with their own way of thinking, having grown up listening to Western popular music and watching Hollywood movies. They do not feel that they are inferior to others, so when they discover their own motherland being looked down upon by others, without anyone’s incitement or brainwashing, they automatically/voluntarily stood up for the honor of their motherland!”

“Even so, they cannot do whatever they want in other countries? Who welcomed them to come?”

“I think their “page-ant” [probably means march/demonstration] and assembly is legal. Otherwise, the French pol.ice would not allow it.”

“No politics, no politics.” Another flight attendant wanted to break us apart, asking the French guy across from me: “Tell me about the good places in Paris, I want to see museums?”

The French guy’s eyes flashed, and introduced some like the back of his hand before finally saying: “Us French collect precious artwork from various countries in the world, including the home country of these two young ladies–China gave them to us.”

I could not take it anymore, and stared at him: “Why would Chinese people give their own art to your France? They were stolen by your ancestors!”

“Nonsense, us French people would never do this kind of thing!”

“Oh really? Do you know Victor Hugo?”

Surprised, he said: “He is the pride of our people! You also know him?”

I did not understand his surprise, and carefully said: “He previously said in his essay: ‘One day, two robbers came to China and brutally plundered the Old Summer Palace. They killed people, started fires, and committed all sorts of atrocities. The name of these two robbers, one was England, one was France.’ May I ask, who is France? How many Frances are there in the world?”

In the face of my interrogation, he actually said: “Impossible, I am not an uneducated person and I have never known of this kind of thing!”

“Come say that to me after you have gone home and checked the library! A people unwilling to face their own faults has no future. I only admire French people who are like Hugo!”

“A true French person does not buy other country’s luxury goods!” a female companion of the French guy said to me.

bonjou-la-france

Tit for tat, I said: “If you are referring to your LV bags and perfume, why not say this to the English and Americans? You are envying Chinese people! If I am not guessing wrong, a woman like you needs to save for awhile to buy an LV bag. Look at Chinese people, when they buy one, they buy half a dozen or a dozen so of course you are uncomfortable. The most important thing is that the Chinese people did not steal, that they fairly buy and sell, that they paid money! If you are a true patriotic French person, why are you flying on an American airline! Go fly your own French airline!”

They started to use French to shout, I was so angry I began to shake, so I pushed aside a path to return to my seat, grabbed my hand luggage, and returned to sit down in the empty seat in the last row all in front of their hateful eyes. At the time, had there been a gun in my hands, I think I would have immediately shot them all! Ignorant arrogant French guys!

That compatriot gave me a paper towel and said to me: “Thank you, without this uniform, I would have been on your side.”

My tears wantonly dripped down, did I win this argument? If I did, why would tears be all over my face? My heart was very chaotic, very pained. For my motherland full of hardships, I pray that she can truly become strong!

Comments from Mop:

野牛与比尔:

When did the 5 Mao start writing novels?

疯草招摇:

Watching politics evolve is like watching the circus,
Just the year before last was the China-France friendship year, but it has become like this now?
What will it be like next year?
Circus and political turmoil, which one does the lou zhu like to watch?

狼族VS天涯:

What you did was very right. I am proud to have a compatriot like you. If I were you, I too would have done what you did. I support the LZ.

felicia2009:

I support~~~absolutely must ding…I do not feel one bit what is so good about foreigners! Especially France.
My geography teacher said, France is an irrational, only knows “romance” country.  Not worth mentioning!! Lou zhu, next time it would be better to just pretend you cannot see these people. Ignoring them would be the biggest humiliation!!!

2009伱犯賎錒!?:

Why is our China always disliked, bullied, by people? Why? ~~~ Are our Chinese people bad??

明明白白的痛苦:

No matter if it is true or false, it makes people even more angry!

全面小康:

French people, if you are unlucky enough to encounter them, you can fully understand the French philistine mentality.
Personally speaking, I am more willing to deal with Swiss or Americans.
Jews,
I do not even want to say.
They always think the entire world owes them.

magnichina:

With regards to this MM‘s behaviour I express admiration.
I hope all of China’s sons and daughters can be like this! Do not lose your self-respect in the face of foreigners!

splendour83:

Mop friend, most French people are not bad people, only a little mentally retarded.

9NJH:

I am giving my “topic reply virginity” [first time replying to a BBS post] to a beloved person who reveres the motherland. LZ, let me tell you a piece of good news: Our generation will make our motherland strong and powerful, I am sure of it!

厚土黄天:

France, a pompous country~ taught a lesson by Germans twice yet still no progress.

11码:

What he said was not wrong,
Chinese people have indeed been brainwashed.

牛B天天有:

Sigh…France’s appointed president, I still rather like.
This Sarkozy is completely a NB…completely losing all of the French people’s face…letting the world’s people all know that France is also completely insensible and unreasonable country…

w56373511:

First, I will not talk about the authenticity of this post.
French tourists just recently won first place for the world’s most disliked tourist amongst the service industry.

df_llz:

Support. Recently, I have seen many things that have also given me impressions of France that were different from the past. I have decided that after learning French and there is an opportunity, I will refute the French face to face.

Comments from China.com BBS:

红色哨兵:

Our disgrace/shame comes from our elders. I hope it will not happen in the future!

我是你妈二爷:

You stupid cunt. Those studying abroad in France are a bunch of corrupt official’s sons and daughters, including you. Are we Chinese people more wealthy than the French? French people only need to save half a month’s money to buy LV, but Chinese people buying half a dozen each time? If [those Chinese are] not corrupt officials then what could they be? If you are Chinese, then do not buy any French things. Trash begging to be fucked like you must be a French-Chinese [Chinese person with French citizenship]. If you really have the courage, give up your French nationality. Our motherland welcomes you.

我是你妈二爷:

[referring to above comment]
Extremely well-said. Your father being a [corrupt] official within the country [China], yourself outside of the country driving BMW sports cars, going on vacations, being “patriotic”…this kind of life, I would love to just dream about it.

柔士:

France is where freedom originated, so it is normal for French people to enjoy freedom. Lou zhu‘s self-esteem in the post was too strong! It would have been better to just treat them as foolish people.

anthonyz:

There is nothing wrong with liking freedom. Also, other people saying that Chinese people have been brainwashed, lied to, and have no rights is not wrong either. You yelling at people on an airplane again confirms that you are ignorant and have been brainwashed, that you have not experienced much outside of the country. Embarrassing!!!

捧场评论:

The most ignorant yet brainwashed idiots are all those double-crossers, those scum and small people who not only do not help their own but build up others with their eyes wide open! A compatriot no matter how wrong is still your compatriot. No matter how civilized an outsider pretends to be they are still an outsider. This should be understood clearly.

守护神@龙:

France is really amusing.
There first lady is a whore.

ssmrh:

Good job~! If all of China’s youth can be more like you, China will become even stronger!

雅木三水:

France did good, extremely good, just great, helping China’s young generation experience the West’s pride and prejudice,  helping them wake up and work harder.

sunyang2008:

I can only say that prosperous and powerful China makes ignorant Westerners envious! I support the lou zhu!

UPDATE: Many people automatically believe this story is fake. Are you sure? Please see the original author’s blog posts: 飞机上的爱国架 and 最弄不明白的是人!

飞机上的爱国架

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  1. The chinese are full of contradiction. Before they start judging others, they just should look at themeselves. They are one ENORMOUS embarrassment. In the west, their young people cover themeselves with fake designer wares. Dye their hair to look as western as possible and the chinese girls are all shagging up with the worst looking white males. Someone above called Carla Bruni a whore? Just look at the chinese girls in Paris and you know who behaves like whore. If they so proud (which I believe everbody has the right), what are they going to do about the massive immigration to the west? If the young chinese want to be respected they should start by acting in a respectable way.

  2. Pathetic! This artical is so false, no-one would openly say these things even if they thought them, this is just an angry chinese person trying to insight hate between nations. As for the bad mouth odour due to smoking, you do realise that it’s been illegal to smoke in any public place in france and most of europe for at least 2years which means most people don’t smoke anymore but in your perfect country you can still see teachers smoking near children and doctors smoking in hospitals and your mouth odour isn’t great. I’ve flown to lots of countries but to be honest the chinese passangers have been the rudest, you don’t control your children, listen to music without headphones so we all have to endure it and complain when asked to turn it off and generally act like you own the plane. But nice try with your made up story, i’m just sad that most commenters here are so blind that they believe you

  3. Regardless of anything else she says, the girl just throws her credibility away when she starts making unfounded generalisations about the hygene of a whole culture – the literary equivalent to off-balanced hay-makers. It just sounds desperate. Plus, let’s face it, Chinese hygene, well… you see where I’m going with this…

  4. This story is a fake, and it’s very poorly told. It looks like the script of a bad made-for-TV short film. The anti-French clichés are preposterous; that supposed man doesn’t look like any living person. Yes, there are jerks in France, and sometimes some of them fly abroad. But this one is a cardboard dummy.

    By the way, what’s with the flight attendant saying “no politics?” Don’t you have the right to discuss anything in a plane, provided you speak calmly and don’t shout?

  5. Haha…I forgot how hilarious this story is. ‘Victor Hugo is the pride of my people’ HOHEHOHEHO!

  6. Bonjour, stop saying bad things about French. You will only hurt their feelings and make them sulk. They are very sulky breed of people… very emotional! Sometimes arrogant too. And Thiery Henry, please that was a blatant handball… you cheat :-p Irish don’t have much luck do they.

    Je plaisante!

  7. Sadly i do have to agree with the frenchy, china is a repressed state and should do much much more to question its own values before questioning others

    as a chinese person you should get used to this kind of treatment until you can have the guts to demand answers about your countries human rights abuses !

  8. what is up with all this racist bullshit? it seems like idiots always like to use their fucking race as a reason to make a big deal out of nothing; someone makes an innocent comment and the idiots get all upset and defensive
    sometimes people think im japanese or korean,so what? what the fuck is the big deal? whoever gets offended by that must either be the biggest idiot alive or was totally brainwashed by the stupid evil communist government

  9. “Look at Chinese people, when they buy one, they buy half a dozen or a dozen so of course you are uncomfortable. The most important thing is that the Chinese people did not steal, that they fairly buy and sell, that they paid money!”

    How naiive can you be?? China routinely tramples on every Intellectual Property rule in the world, that’s why you can buy 12 bags. Your country has absolutely no respect for business ethics.
    I am flabbergasted you would bring up the hygiene of other countries. How many countries do you find children and even adults defecating on the side of busy city streets? China has a long long way to go if it has ambitions of being a truly developed country.

    Your ultra-sensitivity is symptomatic of China’s desperate inferiority and victimisation complex.

  10. And might I add, you talk about this generation of Chinese being independent, free-thinkers, free from so-called brainwashing. Well, brainwashing might be an exaggeration, but your ignorance of the role that propaganda plays is breathtaking.
    The 1980s certainly saw a period of unprecedented free thinking that basically led to a sort of romantic political liberalism, and we all know where that ended up….. June 4, 1989.
    The CCP knew that was a mistake and so in the 1990s very purposefully went about bolstering patriotic education with the Campaign for National Unity. China’s fostering of nationalism was no accident. It was a very intentional strategy designed to replace the vacuum that was left by the failure of Marxism-Leninism. What has developed from that though is a very dangerous brand of popular nationalism that we now see in China today. What the proponents of this nationalism (such as the author of this site) do not realise is that this approach to nationalism is not productive and does nothing for China’s grander strategy on the world stage. You attack the Japanese routinely, what good does this do? Did it ever occur to you that one day the Japanese are going to turn around, sick of trying to apologise and getting nowhere, and will turn militaristic. How would China feel about that?

  11. I don’t think anyone in China is worried about Japanese military now, The Wu. I’m new here, so bear with me, I’m not quite understanding how these discussions tend to turn so angry (and especially at the Chinese by supposedly well-adjusted lao wai). As for the article, I think it was borderline believable, certainly there are anti-Chinese bigots around, just read China Smack. BUT, why did the private Chinese conversation (in English so the French could overhear) so conveniently feature what sounds like a sociological study comparing the behaviors of different nationalities on planes? This is the part which sounds made up–or at least embellished to help make the point.

    I would just like to say that I like the French people. There’s actually Chinese in Paris, you know. I also like Chinese people. What I don’t like is when someone cites some event in their life where they were supposedly done wrong by an individual from another country, race, or ethnicity, and this information is dubiously (and melodraumatically) stretched to show “that’s how they ALL are” and so forth. No matter if this terrible event DID happen to you just as you said, that you think this represents some universal truth about “those people”, you sound stupid and bigoted.

    The Wu, okay, I don’t know why, but I’ll bite. Your big issue is really intellectual property rights? (so much so, that you insert it into a story about an airplane fight). I like to buy cheap stuff. I like knock-offs they call them in flea markets all over the world. I am not in any way saddened that in this trade, companies selling 4 thousand dollar handbags or watches to rich folk feel ‘ripped off.’ mei guanxi, I don’t care. Music? Movies? In this downloading world, are those things really “owned” anyway? There’s more important things to worry about I think. Like, may I interject? U.S. warmongering, unemployment, crime, racism, lack of universal health coverage, morgage and economic meltdown, and so forth?

  12. I can see why many foreigners look down on us. Only after having lived abroad for a number of years do I realize how unhygienic the Chinese are. Never will I go back to such practices. It’s gross. The Chinese only think of money – they will pursue that regardless of any moral or hygiene considerations. Disgusting attitude.

    • unhygienic? (I’m trusting your spelling). I’m glad for the sake of my proud country of citizenship–the US that you have apparently never been to Oklahoma.

      the money accusation, of course might be less wrong if you replaced your (rhetorical?) word choice “only” with a more generous (and accurate) word such as “predominately” or “mostly.” You must know, Linda Lee, that a lot depends upon money in the US. Would you like to live in a safe or dangerous residence? Do you have children? Would you like them to attend very good (or awful) public schools? Chinese people in America very very reasonably understand the value of money, that’s why they generally don’t feign false “morality” or pretence to superstitious transcedence and whatnot in such matters. The Chinese–like the Jews they say, understand the value and necessity of money and money-management. I think a more “disgusting attitude” is the reverse–and you see this in the Western media all the time. No, I’m not talking about the god and jesus thing–although in large doses that can be irritating enough, but all the media here accenting the necessity of borrowing and overspending for the benefit of the economy. You should see our commercials. Sinatra sings “The Way you Look Tonight” as a wife shows off her new expensive dress she had just bought with a credit card–to her sloppily dressed husband in shorts and a 3 day unshaven beard. They discuss vacations–”no we can’t!” “We CAN!” just use the credit card! and you see them driving a boat in some foreign local, spending spending spending on credit (despite the worst recession in American history in 70 years). Do you know how many Americans right now who owe more money on their home mortgages than their home is worth? A lot. They just keep refinancing, and lowering their monthly payment, so they can go further and further into debt (and their balance grows and grows). You may also know that right now, the U.S. is doing the same thing with (those horrible money-hungry, you say?) Chinese in the PRC, borrowing borrowing borrowing money from the PRC to finance their warmongering abroad–while the whole country (the USA) goes further and further into debt. If THIS concept of money is not “disgusting” Linda Lee, please tell me why not?

      • Sorry, I failed to mention the cost of retirement and taking care of the elderly. Wonder if I carefully take baths everyday and chant like the dalai lama will that be good enough to cover those costs? I know, I know, when you’re abroad you probably learned to just let old folks alone. Most Chinese (rightfully) find this idea disgusting as well.

  13. I have never met such a thing, it really can not be trusted. But I think people are equal, there is no better or worse, while the whole world to emphasize this point, but easier said than done, we do not go far enough, in fact, there are still a lot of discrimination in the world.

    ___________________________________________________________-
    http://world-culture-research.org/c.asp?d=15266 Beijing Olympic Games

  14. I have never met such a thing, it really can not be trusted. But I think people are equal, there is no better or worse, while the whole world to emphasize this point, but easier said than done, we do not go far enough, in fact, there are still a lot of discrimination in the world.

    ________________________________________________________
    http://world-culture-research.org/c.asp?d=15266

  15. It is difficult to get along with people in different skin,why?

  16. Prejudice towards other race, towards the poor, towards homosexual, towards the underprivileged… its all human nature. One of the seven deadly sin: PRIDE. Arrogant people likes to point their fingers and impose their standards on others. People with low self-esteem tends to overreact to criticism.

  17. WOW, WILL THIS GARBAGE SITE EVER STOP POSTING MADE UP STORIES?

  18. everyone is human!! we are same species!!!
    please stop racism!!!!

  19. Wow… i don’t particularly like all french people, have met some great ones, but a lot are very arrogant.
    This piece of text, however, is more racist than all the french people in the world combined!
    Just because french are arrogant and like to argue, doesn’t mean they are racist towards chinese people. Stop taking stuff so personally.

    Remember this for the future: whoever sees racism everwhere, is probably a racist.

  20. I looked through the text both in English and Chinese. Seems fake to me on so many levels. It’s just someone yet again venting out against foreigners.

  21. I think the story is fake. If it’s true it’s just silly. I’m impressed by the amount of anti-french comments. I’m french myself, but i’ve travelled quite a bit and i’m currently in Beijing. And I absolutely love beijing, and i have many friends who have travelled to beijing and love it just as much. Every culture is interesting and amazing in its own way. So start exploring and stop being so ignorant.

  22. I feel bad for us CHinese people, because living in China means no access to outside world, and everything you hear or see on state-TV is screened or censored. So a lot of us blindly defend our country like in this case when it is so flawed and we dont realise it. True, this French is arrogant and ignorant, being brainwashed by French TV, but not everybody is like that. We can not better defend ourselves when our people do not see how ourselves are from an outside view. I really hope we can have better system and government so people can know more about democracy and human right……

  23. There is no such thing as brainwashing: it has never been more than the art of influencing people. The term grew out of the 1951 Korean Conflict when the Americans needed to rationalize why too many captured US soldiers had learned to sympathize with their captors. More recently in the 1970s, it was rechristened the “Stockholm Syndrome” when debriefing of West German diplomats held hostage in their own embassy showed that most sympathized with their captors.

    The essence of the matter is that our mindsets and opinions are deeply shaped by the environment into which we are born. Secondly, we modify our attitudes and behavior in function of direct interpersonal contact with fellow human beings because we are social animals at heart.

  24. FACTS:
    Does anyone know perfume was invented and was used by people who doesn’t take baths for a long long time. It was the Arab people who teaches them the hygiens of daily lives.
    High-heel shoe was invented because animal and human feces (aka shit, human bio-byproduct, stinky land mine) was all over French at one time. The French lady needed to wear high-heel shoes to prevent their dress from dragging over the feces.
    Fake white hair wiggs was popular at one time in Europe (especially England and French) precisely because lices and ticks damages the hair as well as dirtyness.

  25. Oh Jones, surely I’m only overconditioned and you, free of any conditioning whatsoever. Thus you have The Light.

    To boost the amperage, however, you might reread Orwell’s 1984. It explains conditioning and language games very simply. If you can’t understand it, Jones, just give it time to sink in.

    On perfumes, they go back a really long way. The inventors were likely women because (1) they needed bait for a sperm donor/weightlifter/hunter around the house and (2) they were traditionally herbalists/physicians and experienced in plant lore, including hallucinogenic roots.

    It was the upper classes among the relatively underdeveloped southern Europeans who, up until the 19th century, used perfumes extensively to mask the scent of sweat. As for today, we overwash to the delight of dermatologists and the entire cosmetics and personal hygiene industries — by stripping away the natural oils that are the skin’s first line of defense.

    Your high-heel shoe theory might fly if there were high soles to go with them; the only advantage of high heels is that they make calves look slimmer; the price is that they mess up the backbone.

    As for wigs, they simply save time and spare your hair from torture by various treatments; today they spare you another dose of sodium lauryl sulfate and other carcinogens.

    On France, as a friend of mine once said “It was a great country until the Revolution. Since then, it’s been going straight downhill. She was a member of the Polish Communist Party at the time too!

  26. Put another way, squad tactics is just another form choreography. You always condition mind and body simultaneously, whether deliberately or not.

    For example, as a child at school in New York, we had regular (ridiculous) air raid drills when we would have to duck under our desks with our hands over our heads. The teachers never blamed it all on the Soviets — we were left to infer that all by our successful little selves.

  27. To be honest I dont really understand what Artur was trying to say here. But after having lived outside China for so many years, I realise Chinese people inside China are deprived of one most important right: Freedom. They have right to know what rights they have, and act upon it. Unfortunately the state-run media and universities does not give them this choice and people do not know how to express their opinoin or uphold their right. on the other hand, I was shocked in the beginning when I arrived in Europe where media is overtly negative about China (of course there is both truth, mistrust and prejudice). Inside CHina the state media is still trying to projecting a harmonious picture between China and West, how silly is that!
    If they one-party system does not change and bring openness of China to the world, people will never learn or progress.

  28. youuuuuhooooooooooooo…. Guys, who is going to Carrefour this weekend ???

  29. There is a saying in England that “France is a women” she and her people can be quite unpredictable. Incidently and generally I like the French and I like the Chinese.

    I read the girls story and formed an opinion that the French and the girl in this discussion are just ‘immature.’ To even publish the nationalistic rubbish that came from both parties is immature. Like naughty children they should be told to shut up! and grow up!

  30. Yeah, the French are froggy cunts. Us Brits knew that long ago. I think the chinese woman here talking to the french frog should be more arrogant to the freak, she was too polite and formal.

    The French need to be taught a lesson.

  31. China and Chinese peoples have not to be worry about the french.
    France is now the fisrt rubbish of Africa and frenchies prefer arabs than asians.
    There is no freedom in France as you have almost one policeman behind each citizen.
    You are allowed to do everything but the laws do not allowed to do everything. In one word you are formatted!
    Ignore France!

  32. Chinese people in either domestic or international flights are also a pain in the ass.
    - People speaking loud
    - Impolitely addressing stewardess
    - Not respecting security measures
    - Getting off there seats right after the plane touches down and switching their phone even being asked not to….
    I confess I am French, I don’t see my compatriots as particularly playing low-profiles that’s true but please Chinese chaps have also a lot to work on. I guess we are just talking about minorities in both countries having less education level than the average…

    • essh they are horrid on flights, no respect for other people nor safety, i was just on one to kl and they where on the phone talking loudly and standing up before the wheels had touch down, but finally i got to say “fucking china” to all of them just to know how rude and stupid they where, how can one be so impatient that you simply must make a phone call that puts 100′s of peoples lives at risk ! they just don’t think beyond there own small small world

  33. Kai:

    this Jones fellow has a LOT of time on his hands.! Please encourage him to get out of his apartment, say hi to a nice girl or something. His parents will be happy.

    • I would rather not, Jones. Is that your fantasy? I think you could do better. Try setting higher goals.

      btw, your angry (and doofus- have I got that American slang right, Jones?) post reminds me of some of those expat sites dominated by fat white guys being pushed around in the bustling Shenghen construction project areas and whatnot. So, they go on there to “vent.” Is that what you’re doing? You know, having grown up in the U.S. with the entitlement of feeling always that white chubby men are best. But what the heck happened last presidential election? Holy moly. They say that when one loses identity, they suffer psychosis. Is that what happened to you Jones? So you came to China hoping to clap your hands and say ‘chop chop, boy, pull my rickshaw faster! no dogs or Chinese!’ but then it turns out China isn’t like it useta be. well ‘That’s a shame’ as they use to say on “Seinfeld.”

      I have to say I’m most amused by your repeated comments, ‘that’s a fallacy.’ ha. as if you’re some kind of logic expert. You’re good for a laugh, lonely verbose white boy, that’s about all.

      • Chen Kai Wen,

        Jones is actually one of the better commenters on chinaSMACK. I say “better” because he tries to be fair and reasonable most of the time, unlike many others. Therefore, I don’t think your characterization of him above is fair (though it may be fair for others).

        For the record, I’m the one who is typically associated with being “verbose” and likes invoking “fallacies” and “logic”. It’s because it’s what I studied and I have a lot of experience debating with people. Jones probably studied something more interesting. Jones can only be “verbose” in the sense that he comments A LOT on chinaSMACK, but I’m the one who usually writes 5 meter long comments.

        Don’t attack Jones. He’s actually one of the better commenters. He tries. I disagree strongly with him on certain things, especially his “rhetoric” when he tries to argue, but he’s alright overall. There are other people your criticisms are better directed at.

        And yeah…”Kai” IS a very good name. Much cooler than Jones. ;)

  34. Who gives a fck about France, the country is in a total mess… France arrogance will be its own downfall, its just sad that the French people (the ignorant one’s that is) do see it themselves

    • HA, it is china that is ignorant at that will be there downfall

    • I like France. You kidding me? You ever been there? Lovely museums, great food, and the wine? Have you tasted the wine? It is fabulous.

      I am fairly new to China Smack, so bear with me. This is my theory: in order for China to fully ‘open up’ China gets ‘smacked’ on this site. This makes westerners feel better about themselves. Because supposedly they are so open and democratic and China needs to become more so. Okay, so far. But in reality, the individual in the west is also very very limited in influencing their government. Look at the U.S. in Iraq. Iraq people didn’t want that, American people didn’t want that. Too bad. The American government wanted that–so there the U.S. stays, and now expands, with the profit of China loans by the way. You’re welcome, Western warmongers! Sure, the U.S. govt. allows more walking around with signs and such and saying negative things in the media. As long as these ‘protests’ don’t really have a chance at threatening the U.S. govt. If they do, they will be shut down too. So, I guess the message is for China to learn how the PRC govt. can grant more widespread weak and ineffective pretend protest. China Smack is exactly 100% in this spirit. Dui bu Dui?

  35. they being angry is a sign of jealousy, french is full of gay :P

  36. You know, one short-coming of this system is that you get a comment in your email box–such as this guy boudalare stretching analogies to Tibet, but I can’t figure out where his post his exactly, and then I forget what he said. Something along the lines of what terrible ‘slavery’ the Chinese are subjecting the poor Tibetans to as we speak. (which of course is absolute nonsense). and Mao. He’s still got his hate-on for this Chinese leader who died almost 40 years ago. Not sure if it was a Richard Gere interview or a “Touched by an Angel” religious TV show in the states, but these are the ultimately important issues which keep poor Boudalare up at night, not U.S. warmongering all over the middle east (during their worst recession in 70 years), not to write romantic poetry but to say angry things about China’s past. Very sad I think. But, let’s give him a chance. Boudalare, please could you show your credentials about Tibet? You have, er, been there right? Is this distant, mountain-top nation really your “calling” as a white man? Really? Why? and if you say ‘yes,’ then naturally I will want to know if after you ‘save’ Tibet from that evil Mao, will you move on to free the American Indian tribes in America?

  37. hi chen ka wei.
    hope you see this in your email inbox.
    its not nonsense. at which point did i say the chinese are subjecting tibetans to slavery? if you read my comment again you will see that i belittle the chinese argument that there was slavery in tibet at the time, due to the fact that china back then was just as FEUDAL a system as tibet was (i am not saying the tibetan system was good, it wasnt at all).
    im just saying it is hypocritical to scream about injustices inflicted when you are in fact inflicting injustices yourself. i think the chinese have a very valid point in feeling outrage at japan’s refused to officially apologise. but i find this outrage hypocritical when they are oppressing tibetans and denying them a right to self determination.
    please dont tell me this is nonsense. because its not. its a fact. tibetans dont consider themselves chinese and deeply resent the fact that they are unable to govern themselves, as they have for 2 millenia. please note that in contrast to other “ethnic minorities” in china, tibet has always had its own government, head of state, tax system, currency, stamps, language and writing, and a completely separate culture to and even wars against their chinese neighbours.
    i do feel this is hypocrisy and injustice. china does resent the west for subjecting it to exploitation for 100 years, tibetans have the exact feeling toward china. why is this so hard to understand? its the same feeling.
    i think its a terrible thing if westerners dont admit to looting the summer palace. but i think its hypocritical to rage about this when china has looted thousands of temples and monasteries in tibet. i dont think this is an unreasonable opinion to have.
    i am not hung up on mao but i do think it is important to note the fact that china’s society nowadays has not really condemned any of the crimes committed by mao. it’s just not talked about, but that does not make the terrors of the cultural revolution disappear, especially if millions of former red guards are walking the streets unpunished.
    and furthermore on the point of hypocrisy, why do you tell me off for talking about something that happened 20 years or even 40 years ago when the card that china plays is always about something that happened 50 years (nanjing)or even 200 years ago (western imperialism)??? that is hypocritical to me.
    i dont hate chinese people at all, some of my best friends are chinese. im not saying china is evil, i am just pointing at things from a different perspective. and to answer your question this is not the calling of a white man. first of all i am not a man and secondly i am tibetan so thanks a lot, i know what i am talking about.

    • Well, you’re Tibetan at least, so I give you some ‘props’ for your opinion. Some. and I apologize for calling you a white man (homer simpson whisper behind hand: THEY’RE the worst!). But you didn’t answer my questions: have you actually been there (to Tibet)? If not, is it fair for you to speak for ALL Tibetans, including the ones whom kind of like the PRC-paid highways and hospitals and schools and whatnot? You know in the U.S. we don’t say “ethnic cleansing” we say “melting pot.” The alternative? those fragmented one-ethnicity= one country Eastern Europe countries such the 3 from Yugoslavia, THAT is really your ideal? Why? Can’t you get along with others? Why not? Further, yes a “kingdom” is self-government I suppose, but is one in which the leader is a self-appointed superstitious never-working supposed reincarnation who is supposedly above the common man–any better than Chinese communism? There really is not such a thing as reincarnation–you know that, right? (and chanting on your butt for as long as you want is not going to change that).

  38. i’m not trying to pick a fight here. i think our greatest enemies are not each other but the ignorance between us.
    just pointing out a few things i think should not be overlooked. china always says the US should shut up because they have enough dirt on their hands to clean up, and i kind of agree with that. you should not point fingers and pretend to be a saint. but the same applies to china.
    now to the points you raised. yes i have been there and i have family there and let me tell you, no rosy story to tell. i also of know personal accounts of the cultural revolution so really i find it difficult to paint any good picture of chinese communism. this is my personal opinion and im not chinese so i cant tell them how to run their country.
    i dont see things in black and white. i think its ignorant to deny the positive effects of chinese rule. tibet was incredibly undeveloped and did not have basic things we would consider vital for a decent quality of life. but at the same time, it is a question of what is more important and to WHOM it is important. china always criticises the west for imposing western standards. that every country as to develop at its own pace according to its own principles and suitable to its population and culture. i agree with that and i think china has done remarkably well in the past 20 years.
    but why wouldnt tibetans have the same right? im not saying tibetans dont want highways and electricity, or money. they do. but if it comes at the cost of getting thrown into prison with no trial for the simple ‘crime’ of wanting to practice your religion and traditions, well maybe then the highway and electricity doesnt really become a priority anymore.
    you may not understand or approve, but this is what tibetans believe in and this is our tradition. western critics bombard china with unfair criticism calling the ccp all names but many chinese think the ccp is working for china. well let them be. its their choice. and so maybe you think its just a bullshit monk sitting on his arse but not to us and we dont appreciate others imposing their belief either, especially not in a violent way.
    and please note that while chinese have the right to condemn western critics out loud, tibetans do not have the same priviledge inside their own land. just throwing it out there.
    the US melting pot is more accurate because it is a land of immigrants. and even then i dont think native americans would agree with you if you said they were peacefully assimilated or something. the chinese logic for policies in tibet is just as unreasonable as the US saying their invasion of iraq was justified.
    but again, im not trying to pick a fight or take sides. i think everyone should be able to decide for themselves, this should apply to individuals and peoples alike. no body likes a bully coming into their house, no matter whether they are americans or british or french or chinese. no body is perfect and everyone should be given the chance to better themselves as best as they can at their own pace and with their own autonomy. again, you may mock me, that’s up to you. many westerners also believe feng shui or fortune telling is bullshit, and you may disapprove or their patronizing opinions. so dont do it to others. thank you.

  39. Yes, I agree with much of what you say, including that feng shui and fortune telling (and yes, Western religion too) is largely quackery. Let me just tell you though that you are much much more knowledgable about Tibet than almost all Americans, and that is an understatement. I apologize for assuming you learned your Tibetian talking points from Richard Gere and American TV.

    The American Indians were slaughtered and defeated by more powerful military forces. This is how the U.S. expanded and became an empire–a world empire. China has chosen the U.S. as a role model in some ways. That being said, I wish everyone in the world has more say in their local and national-government’s decision-making, including the U.S. where you are absoluately right, the people have not wanted the Iraq War much less spreading to Afghanistan and Pakistan and maybe Iran soon. I personally hate it, I believe the U.S. govt. is too powerful, I don’t like having to pay tickets because some automatic camera took my picture while I was driving–and making a right turn on red as allowed. But what can you do? I can choose to defend China–which I overall like very much.

  40. well i dont think it should be about choosing between the US or China. hopefully the world will develop into more of a multipolar system, but i doubt that.
    and just to put things into perspective. you hate the fact that your personal freedom is encroached upon in the states. imagine ten times worse? im not saying tibet is like guantanamo, thats bullshit. but halfway there? probably. i have a much more tolerant and hopeful view of china after living here but i reject the argument that economic development makes up for a lack of human freedom. i think that’s a scary outlook. and i dont say this with exclusively tibetans in mind. but hopefully this will change, at the appropriate pace and within china’s own means. and hopefully this will one day also benefit my people. until then, it is an injustice. and i disagree that just because things are the way they are, you cannot do anything about them. otherwise we would all have ended up like neanderthals. but we didnt.

    • and you two, if it’s going on 9 a.m. on the U.S. west coast, add 16 hours and it’s 1 a.m. Wed. am. over there. You both should either hit the clubs. If you’re not a renunciate, work on finding a mate for procreation.!

  41. do i have a siamese twin?
    1am wednesday morning exactly right. party night isn’t till wednesday night. people have jobs in china too or are you an ignorant country bumpkin?

  42. oh, sorry, Wednesday huh? I’m so out of touch now. Kids will do it to you. You should see that film, “Up”. It’s the only Oscar-nominated film I saw. Really good, almost a Bhuddist theme, too, I tell you what. About always seeking new understandings and renewal. Concerning hot Chinese clubs, I could advise you to check out that hep new cap Cui Jian, but then you’d know I haven’t actually lived in Beijing since the 90′s…

  43. French people are primitive… since years ago, they go to other countries and rob like what Hugo said, lie to their stupid kids and generations after generations, they lived in their own romantic worlds having intercourse with each other’s family, friends…

    Some French people are nice and good people but the ones currently holidaying in China should be jailed or sentenced to death because they are a disgrace to their own country and human race.

  44. well, i kinda agree with the french guy in someway. those protests were legal. china should understand, since they insist on foreigners respecting their laws. and here in my own country its the same with the chinese, the group together in their ghettos and complain about everything and everyone in my country. it’s not their home, so i think either obey the rules or leave.

  45. just wanted to add.. why do the chinese get so aggressive in these situations? when i hear others complain about my country or people, at times it can be annoying, but i dont get violent or aggressive over it.

  46. wow wow wow wow wow
    So much crap for something so human.
    We have 2 situations here.

    Firstly, mass rowdiness (and bullying) when you have a bunch of people expressing in bonding while at the same time vending their current displeasure on the state of things.
    Have anyone of you been on board a flight where half the passengers are chinese tourist and you are a foreigner. he he tell me about it.

    Secondly, a frustrated passenger expressing her human rights. She entitle to express her human rights. Unfortunately doing it like a newly acquired knowledge of what human right is and should be is 2 different things.

    It is not an issue about people, french or chinese or about culture or politics.
    It is just a person’s perception of another fellow human being, arising from how they treated her.

  47. You know there are Japanese people who actually need counseling after a vacation in France.Asians are always surprised how rude Parisians are.Don’t worry it’s not anti-China,it’s anti-anyone who isn’t French.There revolution inspired by the USA,was a Blood bath,their military Empire wars with Britain they lost usually.They were easily invaded by Germans twice and needed U.S.A. to win their freedom back for them.They want to pretend they are still center of World Politics especially in Europe but aren’t.And you shouldn’t care what foreign people say about your country.If you ask me china has it easy,try being American one day.Every people from every country is always criticizing our people or begging us for money.Read any newspaper world wide and US in in every issue non-stop.Now that China is getting Richer,the same will happen to you now.Especially from Europeans read the BBC.Europeans want someone else to do their dirty work for them which is usually the US and when we don’t, they complain,now they are shift some of that to the Chinese.Because they don’t want anyone to know how powerful and rich they really are.Europeans are actually richer and more powerful than the USA,but they want the USA to take responsibility for everything so they don’t have to use their own money or military.Now they are trying to do the same to China.Don’t trust Europeans.They spread nonsense about Chinese the same way they do about Americans.I read constant articles about China coming from Europeans newspapers,it not good either.They want our countries(USA and CHINA) to have conflict they are waiting patiently to emerge as the top world power,when they finally work out their differences in E.U.,they probably will.Don’t trust what Europeans news says about Americans just like I don’t trust what they say about Chinese.USA is trying to help set up Global World powers before,Europe Wakes Up from it’s slumber.Europeans don’t want USA to help Asia,Africa,or South America,become Independent and modern so they try to scare people about our intentions.

  48. Chinese are very stupid

    As usual some silly Chinese complaining. Twenty years ago all of you were riding cheap chinese cycles. The west has invested in return for promised reforms. You are a rowdy uneducated race, even when dressed in civilised clothes this does not vanish who and what you are and you always will be inferior. The girl was flying to France, doubtless chasing a better education. The air stewardess was wearing a communist Chinese flag on her American uniform = totally insulting to the USA. I think the time is coming to stop investing in such a bizarre and nasty race. Dust of your old cycles, within ten years youyr going to need them. Civilised countries are losing patience.

    • Chinese are very smart–the only ‘stupid’ one has it in his screen name. I can tell by this guys use of ‘s’s’ instead of ‘z’s’ he is an Aussie (of which country, Al Gore’s movie tells me is along with the U.S. the only industrialized nations on earth afraid or too hostile to ratify the Kyoto treaties.That’s being ‘civilized’? Speaking on behalf of the U.S.–where I am a citizen, no one at all is offended by the PRC flag, neither those in favor or or not in favor of constant loans by the U.S. FrOM China-to pay for all kinds of middle east warmongering activity not really approved by the citizens of THOSE countries OR by Americans. But what can you do? It’s not like we’re a 100% democracy, we can’t even get universal health care. You know, maybe that uneducated, uncivilized China can help us? You know, since they invented that gunpowder that the U.S. likes so much, and the compass to guide those missiles. Point of fact: the ‘bizarre and nasty’ Chinese in stupid’s racist words are not the country warmongering all over the world–the U.S. is. So, who is civilized? In fact, the U.S. has a one-China dipolmatic policy in which the PRC flag is displayed everywhere and no one minds. Really. Why would we? They’re our #2 trading partner and #1 warmongering loan lender. We like Yao Ming. I know he’s rehabbing now, but when he comes back, everyone waves PRC flags. I wish you all–not stupid, dumb-ass Aussie, hope he’s wrestling sting-rays on his upside down show around the barbie or whatnot–but everyone else was here in the San Francisco Bay Area tonight, where the U.S. largest Chinese new year’s parade will be held. It will be great, so many PRC flags, I tell you what. and no one but dumb-old fashioned out of it Aussies to be offended. Maybe, it’s not the Chinese whom should be dusted off, huh Stupid? Wake up and smell the Fosters beer. It fell over on your face after you passed out sometime about 20 years ago I would guess, mate…

  49. chen Kai Wen Your analysis of written English was totally wrong. Stop wasting time, go out and buy a bike, you will need it in a few years.

  50. Fucking chinese stop being a stereotypes, There are good and bad people everywhere. I know about what the chinese guys and girls do in china and i also know what the americans or europeans or Africans or any east or south asian people do. Chinese yourself are rascist and why you talk about french being a rascist.

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