Stories

New Jersey Mayor Jailed For Bribes, Chinese Netizens Scoff

by on Thursday, November 11, 2010 69 comments comments

Operation Bid Rig: Joseph DeLisa

Operation Bid Rig – This initiative, launched by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies, was aimed at political corruption in the state of New Jersey. Last week (October 27) Anthony Suarez, the mayor of the borough of Ridgefield, was acquitted of extortion. Suarez’ success seems to be the exception to the rule, with many public servants in New Jersey being convicted of corruption.

Chinese netizens bring a unique point of view to the story, jaded as they are by local corruption in their own lives. The post translated below dates back to August of 2009, shortly after the most extensive part of Operation Big Rig, in which 44 people, many of whom were local politicians, were arrested. Many posts expressed disbelief, but not at the dishonesty of American politicians, instead at the cheap price at which they could be bought.

Operation Bid Rig: Rabbi Saul J. Kassin.

From Mop:

American mayor who accepted US$25,000 in bribes shocks entire nation. Chinese netizens also shocked.

After extensive investigations over ten years, the FBI along with other law enforcement agencies made far reaching arrests recently in New Jersey, arresting three Mayors, two State Senators, and 44 members of the Jewish community, under corruption and international money laundering charges.

Associated Press reports that Hoboken Mayor Peter Cammarano [shown below] was accused of receiving $25,000 in bribes. New Jersey John Corzine responded by saying, “The scale of corruption we’re seeing as this unfolds is simply outrageous and cannot be tolerated. Any corruption is unacceptable — anywhere, anytime, by anybody.”

[Quote above translated into English from Chinese translation; was not able to find the original English quote.]

I rubbed my eyes, read it a few times, and yes, it really was US$25,000.

Operation Bid Rig: Peter Cammarano

Comments from Mop:

放开那婆婆:

Hehe, in our village we’d feel stupid trying to bribe someone with such a small amount, and the press wouldn’t feel that it was even worth a story.

三楼的守望者:

For one party secretary in your average village [in China],

One month’s cigarettes money would already be over ten thousand RMB.

US$25,000 I’m afraid probably doesn’t even match the cigarette and alcohol money of some village party secretaries from more economically well off places.

太仓阿东:

Hehe
I don’t believe foreigners are that honest/incorruptible.
Politicians are probably all the same.
A few million is a small sum.

雨季心情风:

Maybe they left out a few zeroes.

情人啊情人:

That’s even less than what our village head spends in one night.

某朵美男子:

So when are we liberating America?

喝可乐的狐狸:

In China you’d have to add at least one zero.

wgj184500:

Americans are that poor? Looks like China is richer.

『默语』:

If you want to be a corrupt politician, you should come to China!

音响猫猫:

Our American comrades are so poor!

ㄗs℡壞蛋__:

All I can say is that America is too poor.
In China, if it isn’t a few million, people wouldn’t even think it was a bribe.

Anonymous Poster:

If this was in China, it’d also be big news! What an honest and good government official!

[See this post about a Chinese government official's sex diary for another example of this kind of thinking.]

Operation Bid Rig: Peter Cammarano

From NetEase:

网易火星网友:

Such a good official. How about coming to China?

美国网友:

American police really don’t know what the real world is like.

浙江杭州网友:

After investigating for ten years they found only $25,000, which amounts to only $2,500 a year on average, such an honest politician~~~~~

日本网友:

This is a joke, right? Such a small amount and it is still worth mentioning?

广东佛山网友:

American mayors are so naive, they don’t come close to a single Chinese village head.

欧洲网友:

It’s just that the definition of “corruption” is different. Political donations should be included when you work out the numbers.
The reason government officials take bribes: they want to be promoted, and get more power and pleasure etc.
Why are there people who give bribes: They want to use government institutions to achieve their goals.
These things are all present in the Western politics, where the system allows for political donations. One side is “legally” accepting bribes, and the other side is publicly “bribing”, this is the way it is [in America].

湖北武汉网友:

And how much did they spend on the investigation?

北京网友:

Beijing welcomes you… come to China, and we’ll give you a clean and honest [official] prize/award…

八十将军:

So fucking embarrassing, only US$25,000? Is this all he is capable of? Hurry and come to China, so our government officials can teach you how to do it properly.

山东临沂网友:

Too embarrassing, only embezzling that much. In America, you will be arrested. In China, you would be laughed to death.

Operation Bid Rig: John J. Merla.

Clean and honest. Personals @ chinaSMACK.

  • xmcx

    i was first and all i wrote was this lousy comment

    • xmcx

      Also, lol @ this guy for missing two subtle issues :
      ” These things are all present in the Western politics, where the system allows for political donations. One side is “legally” accepting bribes, and the other side is publicly “bribing”, this is the way it is [in America].”
      1) The ‘bribee’ you donate to actually has a non-zero chance of not being re-elected.
      2)Conversely, you have a difficult choice of ‘who’ to donate to. Surprising, eh?!

    • Justin

      Damn you. just missed it. And I actually have at least a little something to say. Yeah American politicians could learn a thing or two about corruption from the local Chinese officials. This post reminds me of a book I read about Mao and Nixon.

      When Nixon was ousted for Watergate, Mao thought it was strange that an American president could be kicked out for something so “trivial.”

  • Justin

    I should also add that while I am against racial profiling, I am in favor of using a different kind of profiling. This guy looks like a big fat mobster. He could guest star on the Sopranos. I think anyone wearing gold chains and a track suit should be investigated by the FBI, but I guess then the FBI would have its hands full monitoring half of Jersey.

  • Wake Up

    Don’t you all understand? It might be fun to make jokes about how much better Chinese politicians are at embezzling, however don’t complain next time a police official turns a blind eye when a government official rapes your sister, or a building made from structurally inadequate materials falls on your child crushing them when there is an earthquake, or your child burns to death in a night club because an official took a bribe to ignore fire hazards when licensing the club, or your daughter becomes a or your daughter becomes a k-fen sniffing KTV whore because these places are allowed to sell drugs and operate opening under the protection of officials. Your systems, people and government turn a blind eye for the sake of material benefits. Clap your hands China at your own stupidity if you are laughing at America and calling them poor for this. You are the people who have propagated a morally corrupt society that allows local officials to abuse their power and in doing so abusing you. Poor? Take a long hard look at yourselves and then really think about who the real poor people are.

    • anne

      The Chinese Netizens were being sarcastic…but I guess it pretty hard to tell when written for someone like you.

      • Xero

        Chinese have learned sarcasm? When the hell did this happen?

        • anon

          How long have you been reading chinaSMACK?

          • ecell

            yeah,they were being sarcastic.They just never thought there would be some guys just could not understand it when they write down their comment.
            Sorry for my poor English.

        • Jonny Rolls

          hahaha that’s what I thought! I’m just glad to know ppl can have a laugh. My skin’s think enough to smile at this.

    • anon

      Christ, they’re joking about the “Americans are poor” part. What they’re “scoffing” at aren’t the Americans, but the disparity of the sums involved in the corruption in China versus the United States. It’s sarcasm.

    • moody

      wow, those comments obviously have hit a nerve or two.
      Never tell an American that America is poor
      he’ll cover you with leaches and rape your eyeballs

      • moody

        sorry leeches -not leaches- :-/

        Chinese Netizens comments are right on the money

        • Peter

          Hahahaha – you say sorry for that – but not “rape your eyeballs?” Strange!

    • john digmeme

      Go back and read the post from the beginning one more time.

    • Justin

      Well for one, most of the Chinese comments are satirical in case you didn’t notice and they reflect the exasperation of Chinese with corruption. After witnessing it so long, I’m sure many have become cynical and developed a sense of humor about it as a coping mechanism, which is I’m sure what you would do in that situation. It reminds me of a quote by Vonnegut, “Laughing and crying are two things people do when they can’t do anything else.” You don’t think Chinese people are fed up with this shit too?

      Secondly, before judging Chinese society as a whole, you have to look at it from a historical perspective in terms of where China is at its stage in development. It’s not fair to call all of China a “morally corrupt” society.

      Institutions such as the rule of law are immature here as they are in Brazil or in any other developing nation, so corruption thrives in such an environment. America was in the same state more or less 100 years ago when you had political machines such as Tammany Hall in the north and the rule of Kingfish Huey Long in Louisiana. Or you can read the late great Molly Ivins writing about corruption in my own state of Texas. Molly wrote about how drinks, money and whores were the three weapons lobbyists used to pass legislation. Something which no doubt continues to this day.

      So corruption is everywhere. It’s just more problematic in China, especially since there are only like 1.3 billion + people. It’s hard to get people to stop selling DVDs on the street or to police anything for that matter, much less corruption, which is a lot harder to track. So give China a break, already, and stop with all the sanctimonious, self-righteous tirades.

      • bert

        Give China a break? Bullsh*t!

        • Justin

          Hmmm… the fact that you make no argument leads me to believe that you have none, so you resort to simple vulgarities. Try again when you have some sort of grasp on what it means to debate.

        • Frank

          You can be critical of China without the sanctimonious, self-righteous tirades. I think that was the point.

    • http://blog.minitofu.com Ministry of Tofu

      The Chinese people CAN be sarcastic and they are actually inclined to do so because they like to be indirect and leave others guessing what they really mean. I would never take things literally from what a Chinese says. You might find this confusing but over time you’ll learn the Chinese way.

  • diaohua

    my fagul brotha ate all the baklava that my gumar made from the money uncle suarez paid her from the guy

  • ceh

    welcome to new jersey, where the politicians are cheap and the women are cheaper.

    • john digmeme

      I read this to everyone in the room and we all cracked up <- Philly. This should be a tee shirt/bumper sticker/state motto.

  • Caps

    That last guy in the silver suit has an incredibly nice GUNT, turns me on.

  • john digmeme

    Don’t mind me, just getting some soy sauce y’all; but, I really loved the netizen comments. So funny.

  • KT

    Awesome fab post Fauna. Say no more. Forget the competition, okay.

    • Fauna

      maxiewawa selected and translated this post.

    • John

      I think Maxiwawa did this one.

      • John

        Fauna beat me to it :P

    • http://www.maxiewawa.com maxiewawa

      Yup, but I’m nothing without my editor. ;)

      • KT

        Lets not go excessive on the hi5s here, folk. Hush has been nailing some killer hard-edged pieces, but let down by very poor translation, really really rotten site layout and a limited number of gladiators in the comment pit.

        • anon

          How exactly did they go excessive on the “hi5s”?

          Weren’t you the one telling them to forget about the competition? Why are you bringing up ChinaHush then?

  • sanguine80

    in singapore , a government official is considered taking a bribe if they accept gift that is morth more than $20 SGD

  • 大 李 飞 刀

    Look at him, he got fat with all this briberies!!!
    Hang the fat cat! These kinds of people made Americans look bad!

  • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

    Hm… if my hazy memory serves, in 2006 the rate was still about 8:1, so that $25,000 would be about 200,000 RMB. If the corruption in P.R. China is that high (i.e. locals getting seven figure kickbacks), no wonder the powers to be in Beijing are looking more and more like the Emperors of old.

  • doH!

    this is why america built china in 70s and 80s. (chinese people don’t like that talk…they want to believe modern china magically appeared like watered flowers in a desert). american politicians have been joining with corrupt chinese politicians for 30 years. it’s why american business loves china so much. no rules and you don’t have to be nice to anyone while easy to buy politician off. but they didn’t realize that chinese are better at corruption so all the initial american cheating and investment in china did not bring anything to china…just chinese power. hahahah

  • AsianAmericanGuy

    As an Asian-American raised in New Jersey, I am currently laughing my ass off at the comments. chinaSMACK, you are awesome. XD

  • Alikese

    Corruption in the US is a little more subtle. A politician will work on the Finance Committee, pass laws that throw money at banks, then after his two or three terms are up (surprise) he gets a job at one of those banks. It’s called the “revolving door.”

    There are other instances of politicians getting free rent, or car payments but they are often caught. It’s not that the politicians in America more moral, they’re just afraid since they’re more likely to get caught.

    • Peter

      Politicians in the US are absolutely more moral!!! This is simply because they have an ideal of morality in Politics that many people, in spite of their skepticism, still believe in. (Of course the legal system is also important – but it only functions because of a collective conception of morality)

      In China, very few people (though there are some) still believe in any abstract ideal of morality when it comes to bribery. It has just become the natural order of things. Of course there is corruption in the States, but all this apologetic relativism is bull shit!

      When was the last time you heard of a teacher in the US taking bribes so that a student could be class monitor or sit in the front row? When was the last time you heard of people bribing doctors before surgery so that they will try there best? This is everyday life in China – and the list of absurdities goes on and on.

      Let’s try to stay somewhere within the realm of reality here.

  • Pvt. Joker

    Nothing good about New Jersey.

  • Rick in China

    I think one thing the ‘netizens’ are missing is that they have *proved* a 25,000 bribe. That doesn’t mean it is the limit to which he was bribed, and to think that’s the case would be ridiculous.

  • DRaY

    Americans politicians have been mastering the art of being scumbags for over 250 years, subtlety/secrecy is there tactic. The Chinese Politician are brazen/cowboys who have yet to master the true art of “Scumbaggery”, but they will get there. It is hard to run such a huge country and not have a people making side deals. This American Scumbag, probably had a lot more than $25,00. The thing is, will anyone every find it?

    • Peter

      @DRaY – making this kind of comparison isn’t realistic or honest. Corruption exists everywhere, but in the States and most “Western” countries, it is kept in check by occasionally-effective police work and the fact that if a reporter can break a story like this he can advance his career, not go to jail.

      In China corruption is the way nearly everything gets done. It is a problem that leads to suffering and death on a massive scale – and also sustains a system of unimaginable inequality.

      • Justin

        I’d like to challenge you to present to me one instance where a reporter in China has been sent to jail for reporting on corruption. The only case of a reporter being jailed I have found was the case of a HK reporter who was jailed for “spying” but was later released.

        I’ve read numerous stories where reporters have been sent to jail for NOT reporting on corruption or for taking bribes from companies. One journalist earlier this year got 16 YEARS for taking kickbacks from a mining company.

        http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-06/04/content_9937108.htm

        http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-08/05/content_8525096.htm

        http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9490400

        Reporters are considered civil servants in China and to accept a bribe as a reporter is a lot more serious here than it is in the States. But this of course doesn’t include a lot of payola, which occurs quite regularly I know. My friend from CRI was paid a paltry 200 kuai to show up to a press conference, which is unethical but it’s not quite the same as a cover-up.

        I’m not denying that there are a lot of negative consequences for those reporters who are brave enough to speak the truth, but they usually include getting fired, not jail time. For instance, an editor of the Economic Observer was sacked because he wrote a strong editorial about hukou reform. As a member of the state media myself, I can tell you that there is a hierarchy that prevents certain stories from ever seeing the light of day, so any story that is controversial enough to cause trouble will likely get cut before hand.

        And also you must have never heard of some of China’s reform-minded newspapers that print this sort of stuff all the time such as Southern Weekly.

        So while we’re doing reality checks here, you might want to check yourself before you riggity-wreck yourself.

        • Peter

          “you might want to check yourself before you riggity-wreck yourself.” LOL – Nice one!

          Yeah – I am sure that I can find a case or two if I dig for a while… but your right. In most cases that I have read reporters don’t actually go to jail, they just get silenced in other ways.

          I am just too accustomed to hearing about Chinese journalists getting thrown in jail…

          http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china/chinese-journalist-threatened-coal-mine-scandal-7075.html

  • Peter

    One particularly uninformed quote:

    欧洲网友:
    … These things are all present in the Western politics, where the system allows for political donations. One side is “legally” accepting bribes, and the other side is publicly “bribing”, this is the way it is [in America].

    I suppose it shouldn’t be surprising that people have such a fundamental lack of understanding of the system. Seems stupid, but if you don’t really understand how the system works and you get so much of this kind of talk from the official media it’s to be expected.

    • anon

      I don’t see how that is particularly uninformed. xmcx makes a good point but also fails to appreciate how much this netizen actually understands about the American political system (even on a philosophical level) compared to the average person. Political donations can indeed be seen as “legal” and “bribes”, which is precisely why there is regulation surrounding them in American law, a system that tries to strike a balance between allowing politicians the practical financial support they need for their campaigns and a measure of transparency to allow the public to know who is supporting these politicians. xmcx’s great point is that as much as this can be seen as “bribes” too, it must be remembered that these politicians must still be “elected” on some level and thus face more accountability on some level…unlike Chinese politicians. xmcx’s point doesn’t invalidate the original Chinese netizen’s point, but it at least adds more meaningful information than your claims of the netizen being uninformed and vaguely accusing the official media.

      • Peter

        The problem – if I need to spell it out – with this statement is that it equates bribery, which is generally for direct personal gain (going to the official) and campaign contributions, a highly monitored form of transaction that may benefit the recipient but does not do so directly.

        These are two entirely different kinds of transactions and to “equate” them demonstrates a lack of understanding of the system. It’s illegal for campaign funds to be used for personal expenses. Chinese bribery, as far as I am aware is primarily for personal financial benefit – or 关系-benefit.

        In addition, though it’s all relative, politicians in the States don’t really have very high salaries – so it could be argued that there is very little direct financial gain involved for the individual politician winning the election.

        Furthermore, it is absolutely legal to support a political campaigns and try to influence politics in this way – there is nothing wrong or immoral about it (IMO.)

        I was responding to 欧洲网友 – not xmcx

        I vaguely accuse the official media, because it should go without saying that a great deal of the nonsense they pump out includes over simplified relativistic BS much like the comparison I referred to above.

        I have been reading the Chinese press for at least 15 years, and have done research going back to the 1950s that has shown this to be a constant. Things have improved dramatically in recent years and I sometimes actually agree with some of the criticisms aimed at the US (such as the current attacks on the Fed). However, this kind of illogical argumentation is still apparent. (As it is in most left-leaning periodicals in the States)

        • anon

          I know you were responding to the netizen in Europe. I didn’t say otherwise. I was comparing your reaction to that netizen’s comment with xmcx’s reaction, which I found more meaningful that what you initially posted.

          The fact that the netizen in Europe surrounds a number of key words in quotation marks should make it abundantly clear that he or she is not “equating” anything in any absolute sense, but making a very incisive point about how the American political system works when it comes to political donations.

          Political donations to politicians most certainly directly benefit that politician. I’m not sure why you’d argue otherwise. More importantly, I don’t see how the netizen’s comment suggests anything at odds with what you’ve said. He or she never argues that the money is used the same way, but that one side gives for a benefit and the other receives for a benefit. The netizen’s insight is in how the same underlying motivations exist. It’s like suggesting that waterboarding is still torture.

          In addition, Chinese politicians don’t really have very high salaries either. Why do you think that they do when it is widely known that those who enjoy wealthy lifestyles typically derive the means from grey income and perks? But getting back to your dismissal of the netizen from Europe as being uninformed, government position salaries has little bearing on the validity of the netizen’s comment: that political donations can be seen as bribery by another name. Mind you, the definition of a bribe says nothing about how the bribe is spent, but everything to do with payment for exchange of influence or favors. Political donations in American are exactly about that: you donate to get the politician’s attention to what you want.

          Furthermore, who is arguing that political donations are illegal, wrong, or immoral?

          Since you’ve been reading the Chinese press for so long and have done research spanning 60 years, I’m sure you can very quickly and easily provide sufficient references to convince us that the “official media” pumps out this nonsense to be the direct cause for this netizen in Europe’s “uninformed” comment. By my reckoning, I have no impression of the Chinese official media dedicating so much print or airtime to arguing how American political donations are equivalent to bribing Chinese officials in China. Frankly, the notion that political donations are bribery by another name is hardly “Chinese” at all, but something entirely commonplace in American political discourse. As I said before you, it is accepted at present as “a system that tries to strike a balance between allowing politicians the practical financial support they need for their campaigns and a measure of transparency to allow the public to know who is supporting these politicians.”

          So please, spell it out. I don’t care what you think about liberal periodicals. You’re not giving an interview on Fox. You’re supposed to explain how the Chinese netizen from Europe’s comment is “uninformed” and support your insinuation that his uninformed comment is the product of Chinese official media.

          • Peter

            @ Anon:

            “The fact that the netizen in Europe surrounds a number of key words in quotation marks should make it abundantly clear that he or she is not “equating” anything in any absolute sense…”

            Nope, not abundantly clear, quite the opposite in fact, becuase it’s not the case. (In addition, no one is talking about the “absolute sense.” Why add that?)

            “…but making a very incisive point about how the American political system works when it comes to political donations.”

            No, once again – this is not about America – it’s a comparative statement meant to juxtapose the two “transactions” and imply a moral equivalence. If you don’t get that from the original comment, I’ll have to assume you are being disingenuous

            “Political donations to politicians most certainly directly benefit that politician.”

            Wrong again… the more I read, the more I think we are just talking past each other, or you are just a very well spoken, buffoon. The benefit that goes to a political campaign benefits the candidate indirectly – and it does so in an extremely round-about way.

            “In addition, Chinese politicians don’t really have very high salaries either. Why do you think that they do when it is widely known that those who enjoy wealthy lifestyles typically derive the means from grey income and perks?”

            Here you have completely shifted the frame of the arguement – but why shift it in this direction and make such an obvious mischaracterization of my position? (Why did you say that you have the worlds biggest penis? LOL)

            I could just go line by line here and argue my case, but it’s hard to believe you are being serious…

            Take this gem as an example:

            “Since you’ve been reading the Chinese press for so long and have done research spanning 60 years, I’m sure you can very quickly and easily provide sufficient references to convince us that the “official media” pumps out this nonsense to be the direct cause for this netizen in Europe’s “uninformed” comment.”

            This is highschool debate tactic man! Address the issues, otherwise this kind of back and forth gets boring fast. Asking for references is great, but why tack on the obvious strawman?

            What worries me most about this kind of interaction is that, if you are being serious, you may not see the massive flaws in your arguementation.

          • Gray

            LOL I see what you did there, Peter!

            “Disingenuous”
            “buffoon”
            “shifted the frame of the arguement”
            “obvious mischaracterization”
            “highschool debate tactic”
            “obvious strawman”
            “massive flaws in your argumentation”

            Way to go about describing yourself! I haven’t seen this much bullshit in a long time on Chinasmack. I mean, there are plenty of retarded comments but this is grade A bullshit! You’re such a kidder you! Oh you made my day! Thank you! What a cock!

    • DRaY

      @Peter, “Donations” “Lobbying ” done by big business, or “Bribes” behind closed doors is all SCUMBAGERRY. (Yes I know i made this word up). Perhaps I should define Scumbag for you, I scumbag is a POS human being that profits from the Exploitation or Suffering of others. Legal or not legal it is morally wrong! American Politics and Legal system are filled with loop holes and technicalities that the elites use and manipulate to serve their purposes. China is not 100% “dirty” as you make it seem by saying “In China corruption is the way nearly everything gets done. ” Really? EVERYTHING? That is a bold statement.
      Have you seen the state of America over the past few years? Americans Leaders have done a great job of creating “unimaginable inequality” at home too. My point is America is as bad as it gets, these Scumbags (greedy politicians) are giving people a false sense of security and selling away the futures of the people that they should be serving just to line their pockets.
      America is a country built on terror tactics and lives by the example that might is right , don’t try to act like America has no blood on its hands and they are so much better than everyone else. SCUMBAGS!!
      I’m not trying to say America Good China Bad or vise versa, but both countries are pretty corrupt but they go about it in their own ways.

      • Peter

        “Big business” has just as much a right as any group to protect it interests and it’s profits. To say that influencing an election though contributions can be equated with profiting from the “Exploitation or Suffering of others.”

        “Legal or not legal it is morally wrong!” This is an extremely disturbing idea! (You have got to be leftist, right? Drinking that anti-corporation Kool-aid)

        The legal system is the means whereby we collectively impose a “morality” on society and government. The rule of law is absolutely essential and your personal feelings about morality are really irrelevant.

        You can’t impose your “morality” (hatred for big business) on others through brow beating. If you really want the laws to change in this regard, you should be supporting political candidates that agree with you, through contributions and votes.

        America certainly has it’s share of “scumbags!” I wouldn’t argue otherwise – but to equate legal political contributions with bribery in China is absurd in the extreme.

        Don’t get me wrong, I am all for criticizing America, especially the current administration. However, your comments also smack of an irrational hatred for “corporate America.” I’d recommend trying to conceive of what life in the US would be like without “big business.”

        Don’t believe the hype, as they say.

        • Justin

          Well I concur that bribery and political donations are not exactly the same, but the end result is much the same. Politicians still follow faithfully the will of their patrons. And not to mention actual kickbacks do commonly occur in America, but somewhat less frequently due to the fact that America has a sophisticated and well-developed banking information system as well as institutions and accompanying laws that have been built up over several decades during the same period that China was just barely starting to become functional again.

          I’d like to remind you of scandal of the Mineral Services Management Bureau where bureau members were literally in bed with corporations. Also the no-bid contracts awarded to the Bush Administration’s cronies in KBR and Halliburton. Or the million dollar empty Olympic size swimming pool in Iraq built by the mercenary Dyncorp corporation. The list goes on and on and those are only the ones that have been uncovered.

          Like in China, kickbacks and graft happen in cities and on the state level as well. In Austin, where I am from I was about hair away from breaking a similar story about a group of public transit workers who were fired for similar shenanigans as the MMS, except they were funding their coke parties on the company dime rather than kickbacks. Also in the Texas state legislature, drinks, money and whores are the main features of any lobbyists’ toolbox.

          I do agree that there is a pervasive culture of bribery in China, but it’s just something that is an age-old practice, which takes time to root out, and I think the Chinese are at least starting to attempt to do so. They face a lot of difficulties, which I touched on earlier, such as not having a reliable, complete banking information system or a complete legal framework with which to prosecute bribery and corruption or the necessary institutions. But they are at least making headway by starting to require cadre to report contributions, though they are not making them public.

          • Peter

            @ Justin

            American bribery exists – OK, we all know this. Now to your comments.

            “Well I concur that bribery and political donations are not exactly the same, but the end result is much the same.”

            This is exaclty my point, or I should exactly not my point – the end result is ENTIRELY different! We aren’t comparing apples and oranges here – I mean this is more like comparing apples and myocardial infarctions!

            “…but somewhat less frequently due to the fact that America has a sophisticated and well-developed banking information system as well as institutions and accompanying laws that have been built up over several decades during the same period…”

            Not sure what period you are talking about but – I think you are giving the Chinese banking and legal systems too little credit. The fact is, though I am not expert on either, extremely sophisticated. China has the means to deal with this problem – the fact is that there isn’t a collective will to do so.

            “I do agree that there is a pervasive culture of bribery in China, but it’s just something that is an age-old practice, which takes time to root out, and I think the Chinese are at least starting to attempt to do so.”

            Everything is constantly in a state of flux (Don’t buy into this idea of the 5000 year old culture that can’t change – it’s utter nonsense! China is constantly changing in a variety of ways and has been doing so for thousands of years). 40-50 years ago the Chinese bribery situation was much better than it is today, at least according to many people I have spoken with. Things haven’t gotten better, though some of the powers that be have tried.

            I would never assume that this is an easy problem to solve – in fact I think it is impossible to solve without a major political shift, in the manner of the political movements of the 1950s-70s.

            Anyhow, Thanks for responding – I have got to get out of here…

            Best to all – I enjoy the challenge of your comments. I may be wrong on some points, but I don’t see how presently.

  • Mikecheck

    Any country that can claim to have invented bureaucracy can certainly claim to have invented corruption as well.

  • White Man

    This is just beyond words.

    Hell on earth.

    Satan himself laughing, torturing, parading in the open.

    No man or woman should have to endure watching this.

    I didn’t…I had to turn it off. I saw that animal, that noble animal. Looking up feeling pain not intended by nature, understanding evil at its fullest force, then die a relieving death.

    Then I read some comments, gushing with self hatred and insanity from folks like Frank and “Peter in china”.

    “Oh, this happens in every country. Nothing wrong with china. Don’t you talk bad about these fine people. Have a laugh! Nice culture. Wonderful!”

    This is below trolling, it only hurts.

    [Note from Fauna: Where did you read that? I did not see them say those things.]

    • White Man

      Sorry, I usually read between the lines and get carried away. Also I posted in the wrong thread..

      Btw, you have some pretty shocking shit in this forum. What’s next, snuff movies?

  • elenore

    Around the same time this was going on,We had similar thing in Old Detroit with Monica Conyers.She picked up a few thousand from a McD,s and when people found out the amount they were laughing.Her husband is rich also a politician.And she made more than enough Draining Detroit into a wasteland.The reason for the smaller amounts is they are less likely to be noticed by media,FBI,and IRS.It’s hard to hide money.I think the Senator from Alaska had it in his freezer.These people are so stupid to lose a Well paying job and benefits for a few dollars.The smart and corrupt U.S. politicians do something even better,they award government contracts in return for getting their family or themselves(after serving term)a job at the Corporation.Many states government want to change laws to ban politicians and family members from jobs to companies they personally awarded a contract to.

  • Frank

    Because it is not about the American politicians and everything about the Chinese reactions which is what this website is about.

    • Frank

      No, I don’t think you know the point of the site if you’re still judging what they post by what registers to you. This post was hilarious and I can see why it was popular in amongst Chinese people. It shows how different the expectations can be for corruption in each country.

      You’re also being needlessly aggressive. Relax. If you don’t like what this site posts, don’t read it. There are a lot of other good sites.

  • nartin

    One, I think these comments were selectively chosen on purpose to have similar views. There are lots of other comments not relating to the comparison between the degrees of corruption between the two countries, but these were left out.

    Two, American politicians and businessmen have learn the art of ‘indirect corruption’ that usually leads to higher benefits in the long terms. The type of corruption happening in China is the same as any other developing country, which is similar to that of early nineteen century U.S. corruption. As countries developed, they will eventually learn how to benefit themselves without resulting in jail.

  • http://procon-8.deviantart.com coconut

    A bribery is a bribery no matter how small the amount of money is. I guess for China 25,000 dollars is nothing compared to their bribes. It’s nothing to us either. However it was still bribing and he should be put to justice.
    Still though, even the government lets some of the bigger money schemes slip by once in a while…

  • Pingback: Tan-tan-dan... The US realises they need allies to go WWIII against China! - TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum

  • Ambientman

    WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE ALL MY COMMENTS GOING? is this some kind of funky glitch??

    All I said was “This is nothing compared to some of the other corruption that occurs in America. Try using some of the huge stories to see the Chinese peoples reactions.

    COME.
    ON.
    I thought Chinasmack was different. Very disrespectful to delete peoples comments, especially WITHOUT warning (via email). I spent time writing so if you want to delete, spend time to tell me why such a harmless thing is being deleted. What is said above is all I said previously, which was what was deleted.

    [Note from Fauna: Please read our response here.]

  • Fman

    It’s nice to see in the west our worst is better than your best!!

  • kodi

    Well it is sort of embarrassing he was bought so cheaply! I like how the Chinese netizens are asking, “Is that really a bribe? Did they forget some zeros?” I guess the things you can bribe officials for in America are different from China. Our politicians actually don’t have as much power as Chinese officials. Checks and balances, semi accurate accounting practices, and low degree of influence over public issues may be the reason for the small bribes.

    However, just think about how much money Cheney and Bush got for ENRON, Haliburton, and who knows how many other dirty deals they did! I guarantee that those bribes or kickbacks whatever you choose to call them are up into the billions!

  • kodi

    I mean if you are going to risk jail and sell out your constituents at least demand a couple million dollars or simply don’t accept it. You have to weigh the risks and return on investment right?

  • Expatty

    I have to side with the Chinese on this one. Foreigners always talk about how corrupt Chinese officials are, but make no mistake: American officials are also corrupt!

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»