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Tang Jun “Fake Credentials Gate”, Chinese Netizen Reactions

by on Saturday, July 10, 2010 39 comments comments

Tang Jun.

Tang Jun, the well-known and successful former President of Microsoft China and Shanda Interactive Entertainment, was recently accused by Fang Zhouzi (aka Fang Shimin), a “crusader” against scientific and academic fraud, of falsifying his academic credentials and also patents. Specifically, Fang Zhouzi has provided evidence to show that Tang Jun did not earn a PhD degree from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech). When Tang Jun responded by saying that he has never claimed that anywhere, Fang Zhouzi showed excerpts from Tang Jun’s autobiography proving that he has. When Tang Jun showed that he heard his PhD from Pacific Western University, it was discovered that PWU is not an accredited institution and sells fake diplomas. Tang Jun has also threatened to sue Fang Zhouzi for libel.

More information and English translations about this news:

  • “‘Fraud cop’ accuses IT big wig, legal action threatened” (Global Voices Online)
  • “More CEOs Drawn into Tang Jun’s Fake Academic Credentials Scandal” (Veggie Discourse)
  • “Tang Jun PK Fang Zhouzi” (EastSouthWestNorth)
  • “Why Diploma Fraud Won’t Be the End of Tang Jun” (Veggie Discourse)
  • “Faked credentials, a ghost-written autobiography, and a diploma mill” (Danwei)

What do Chinese netizens think? There are many who are critical but also many who are supportive:

Comments from Tianya:

龙城快刀:

I have a copy of Tang Jun’s book, and flipping through it several times I didn’t see him saying he has a PhD from California Institute of Technology. He has never said that before, so where did this false claim come from?

Tang Jun being able to enter Microsoft in America demonstrates that the educational credentials he provided to Microsoft stand up to an American company’s inspection.

On the other hand, Fang Zhouzi talks a lot of nonsense about China’s traditional Chinese medicine while praising America’s genetically modified foods. This kind of American butt crack licking “slave of the foreign” are not uncommon amongst the Chinese circles in America. Just because they have an American diploma, they zhuang bi in front of Chinese people, as if an American diploma makes them one level higher than Chinese people.

Now that America’s scientific community has begun reflecting upon genetically modified foods, isn’t this “slave of the foreign” Fang Zhouzi embarrassed?

Had Fang Zhouzi been like Tang Jun and found a job with a large company like Microsoft, he wouldn’t have been unable to survive there and be forced to return to China to survive by fighting fraud.

偶服了:

What part of the Heavenly Kingdom doesn’t create fake things? I’m waiting to see what will happen to Dr. Tang.

草原蒙古包:

Hahaha, yet another Chinese idol fallen.
Gates did not graduate from Harvard, yet he did not go buy a diploma. This is the difference between white people and Chinese people.
No wonder one of the three Western Enlightenment thinkers Montesquieu said Chinese people are the world’s most treacherous/deceptive people.

国产大包子:

China’s media only knows to create false news. The truth still requires us ordinary people to expose.

80后信仰:

My idol Tang Jun lost my respect the moment he advanced into real estate, which is when all these unfortunate things began happening.

junmyu:

Fang Zhouzi at any rate is fighting fraud, whereas Tang is committing fraud. Society needs integrity and fairness. I applaud Fang Zhouzi and am embarrassed for Tang.

荷兰人家:

Why do Chinese people obsesses over that piece of paper? What can a piece of paper prove anyway?!

Chen Fashu (Board Chairman of Newhuadu Group) with Tang Jun (President and CEO of Newhuadu Industrial Group Co., Ltd.)

Chen Fashu (Board Chairman of Newhuadu Group) with Tang Jun (President and CEO of Newhuadu Industrial Group Co., Ltd.)

Comments from Mop:

hcuhsabd:

There is no necessary correlation between one’s educational background and ability.

文控萝莉武定人妻:

Why is Tang Jun being targeted?
Sigh~Those [responding] below, think clearly…
There are some people who have ill intentions. Even if Tang Jun’s elementary school diploma was like this, his achievements have already proven enough.

最忆童年:

Actually, what use is educational background? As long as he has the ability, it should be enough. It isn’t as if he is a civil servant, what bullshit use is his educational background?

空城小嘟:

I think everyone should calm down over this matter! Educational credentials does not represent ability. If he has the ability but not the educational credentials, then maybe his ability would not be so quickly discovered. If he had the educational credentials but not the ability, it would also be difficult for him to be the Tang Jun he is today! When everyone are looking at what happened, they are overlooking the results Tang Jun has produced. Did he harm society or murder anyone for money?  I still think, no matter whether real or fake, if your talents are not being recognized, there is no harm in creating false evidence as a stepping stone to success!

绯红的你:

Sigh, look clearly, without these fake educational credentials, would he have had the opportunity to get the kind of achievements he has today? Hehe.

佩莱格里尼:

Exaggerating [one's credentials] is trying to create opportunity, but he still had the ability to grasp that opportunity…we have to look at things objectively. It cannot be denied that he lied to many people, and the exposure of this matter will definitely have a negative impact upon the young generation. Yet it also cannot be denied that his ability was enough for all of the positions at the companies he hoodwinked…

珈兰雨:

This news is boring.

How could a person without ability have made it to where he is today?

The Tang Jun now, even if he never went to university, would still have lines of people wanting his business.

柳自元:

Broadening horizons, broadening horizons! This bunch of people faking like this don’t even feel ashamed? However, the country is like this anyway: So many people only look at the diploma.

匿名人士967198:

Gates doesn’t even look at educational background when interviewing people, only asks questions. Proving that Tang still has ability.

What do you think? Do you think Tang Jun’s diploma is not so important because he has demonstrated his ability and talent? Do you think it is okay to exaggerate or lie to get opportunities?

Tang Jun shaking hands after being appointed CEO of Xin Hua Du.

Opportunities. chinaSMACK personals.

  • Dave

    first!! right??

    • Canadian_Skies

      Chinese media circles need to stop dropping the gate-bomb at every turn, and save it for government scandals as it had been before becoming an uncommon-common catch phrase in China in an attempt to numb the impact of every government scandal until one day everyone will accept them no matter what they do.

      Oh, those days are already upon us.

  • of canada

    In a job market that will arbitrary methods to screen out the thousands of job candidates. . what school you went to becomes an obsession among employers. Foreign schools usually are held in higher esteem than most CHinese universities. He is not a medical doctor or anything highly skilled, so he does not need a B.S. degree to work in business.

  • John

    Since when have Chinese people ever let honesty get in the way of trousering millions?

    • aquadraht

      Stupid racist crap, American or Aussie redneck, brother of Jones? When it comes to trousering millions, honesty will be far away everywhere in the world.
      Beneath that, the article was unconvincing. The person in question seems to have proven his qualifications before MS USA. And while I, as a Unix systems programmer, despise Windows quite a lot, am confident that Microsoft’s staff screenings are no less diligent than those of the CIA or NSA. The original article is doubtful therefore, to say the least.

      • Hu Yaobang

        that’s why microsoft produce crap. that’s why vista failed so spectacularly. COS of fraudsters like FANG JUN.

  • 123meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    a chinese dude lied?

    i am shocked. SHOCKED AND APPALED!

  • Brother River Crab

    could be worse, he could have claimed that he invented the Internet.

  • FYIADragoon

    Chinese job market has an obsession with credentialism?

    YOU DON’T SAY!

    The sun also rises tomorrow, more at 7.

  • Pete

    Appearances have long become the new reality, and the disease is spreading…

  • http://www.foarp.blogspot.com FOARP

    This happens way too often in China, both native Chinese and foreigners claiming academic and professional qualifications that they don’t have, playing the old “fake it to make it” game. By the time that those who do “make it” are found out they are already in a position where nobody can do anything about them anyway.

    Chris Devonshire Ellis, is a classic example of this phenomenon, but there are dozens like him in the expat community. I even met a guy who claimed to have done a master’s in English, but who, on further questioning, turned out to have just got out of prison where he had served a year for burglary, and who had never been to university. Diploma mill qualifications are almost as bad, as most Chinese people don’t know the difference between legitimate colleges and diploma mills.

    This is reinforced by the excessive emphasis Chinese people place on academic qualifications, particularly foreign ones, over actual experience.

    • aquadraht

      Oh my. This is all replay from the fifties, sixties, seventies, in Europe, in the US, in Australia, Japan. The old trick to have credentials from some far away institute sounding important.

      Thousands, tens of thousands, or even some degrees of magnitude more, acted that way. There was a Japanese “university” literally printing doctor degrees based on some language twisting, the translation sounded much like Tokyo University while it was some private for profit institution. Lots of people based their career upon around the world til it blew up due to annoyance of the real Tokyo University. Very old story.

      Even me, I was for some time in the business of writing exam theses for less gifted but financially stronger people. Rich people, much more their offspring (look at Jones) are often dead stupid. It is a way of redistribution of wealth when smarter people from the lower classes take some of their cash to prevent them from total decline.

      Beneath that the whole story sounds questionable, where the damn are the news? Only flesh search? Pathetic.

  • ND

    Tang’s profile on linkedin still clearly lists “caltech phd” in education. Enough said. http://cn.linkedin.com/pub/jun-tang/18/ba/296

  • Keius

    There is something a lot of westerners need to realize about the Chinese mindset in China. In a lot of ways, it’s ok to lie and cheat your way to the top as long as you make it there. The Chinese gov’t and the level of corruption is a reflection of that. Chinese citizens complain and rail about gov’t officials but given the opportunity, most would jump at the chance to become one of those “elites” no matter how much they’d dirty themselves in the process. Integrity is like dog poop in China. People don’t place any value in it.
    I’m kind of a moral, righteous kind of guy. I’ve also been told that i’d be eaten alive and live in the poor house were I to try and make my way in China. (due to my unwillingness to do the wrong thing). Honestly, i have yet to personally encounter an honest, honorable very successful person in China. The more you associate with anyone “successful”, the more dirty things you find out about them. And these are the people that are idolized as symbols of success.
    In China, the end result is what matters, not the path taken to get there.

    • http://www.lovelovechina.com Crystal

      If these are the rules of the game for everyone – then there is no problem :-)
      But also every player must be ready to pay the full price upon being discovered as a cheater

      • crackedbamboo

        Thanks Crystal, great insight into why lying and evasion, in both professional and personal affairs, completely saturate contemporary Chinese culture. Apparently the real “problem” is not an environment that rewards those who lack any measure of ethics or integrity. As long as one can accept the fallout when truth comes to light, play on.

        “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society”

    • aquadraht

      Wake up, kid. In the whole damn world it is ok to lie and to cheat as long as you do not get caught or even if, Daddy protects you.
      Look at the US, or Germany, or the UK. Where the shit is the frigging difference? Hypocrites, all of you.

      • Shoeshine

        dude, quit being s f*cking tool.

    • whichone

      “I’ve also been told that i’d be eaten alive and live in the poor house were I to try and make my way in China”

      Dear moral-righteous-guy-who-has-yet-to-make-his-way-to-China, I am curious about how you plan to personally encounter honest, honorable, and very successful people in China if you are not in China. Did you think you would bump into them at your local starbucks sipping lattes and strike up a conversation that would reveal some deep insight into Chinese society?

      • Keius

        Your making certain assumptions :P I’ve spent enough time in China and lived there to experience what it’s really like there. At least in Mainland China that is. Visited other places but lived in the Guangdong area. I will admit that my views and attitude may have been influenced by the views of those around me. It just seemed to me that corruption went hand in hand with success whenever you would actually take the time to inquire. My wife has a fairly decent number of successful relatives. Same with those you would associate with if you live there. The illegal practices of just about all the bigwhigs are “relatively” common knowledge. They are well known in their communities. An example would be the ex-police chief who lived next to us. Pretty friendly older couple. How they managed to afford the huge mansionlike structure was common knowledge since the old guy still has his fingers in some of the massage-style businesses. My wife’s aunt, who smuggles brand name baby goods from Hong Kong to reap HUGE profits for her baby supplies store (has to pay bribes to cops). My wife’s uncle who inherited a business from his family(some illegal stuff there too), and his wife who’s been arrested for running an illegal gambling establishment. These are the moderately successful people. Then there’s people like the Mayor of the city….the big dogs really take the cake, at least what’s known about them. The corruption seems to be a trickle down thing. Most seem to accept it as a fact of life if you want to make it. People there don’t make excuses for what they feel they have to do to survive and thrive.
        Haven’t been back there for 3 or 4 years though. Doubt things have changed much.

  • HardyPengood

    Wonder how much chinaSMACK would pay for an article on “Gargle Gate–The story about a Netizen named Alain”…

  • whichone

    Now and then, there is always someone who slips through the cracks and get a job with a fake resume, but Tang Jun has held high level management positions at many large corporations for many years, so obviously was very competent at his jobs.

    Education credentials provide a metric for determining a persons abilities when they are fresh out of school with little experience under their belt, so Tang Jun lied on his to open some doors, the rest were his talent and hard work. There were probably lots more failures who tried this approach for everyone who succeeded. People who think this sort of behavior is okay will more often find themselves screwed for trying to take the shortcut, and that’s all there is to it.

  • GUH

    Highly recommend readers to study Tang Jun’s book which serves excellent guidance and inspiration for survivors how to lie, to cheat, to scam, to fake, to pirat, to loot….. “Anyone can become as succeful as me?” This sums it up all.

  • Liuhua

    It is strange so many persons support Tang for his defamous deeds. He can make any money and successful in bussiness. But all these could not hide his lies. He uses these lies to influence the Chinese next generations. Reading his book, you will understand how harmful it will be.

    I am glad his misbehaviors are exposed and people can adjuge themselves.

  • Rick in China

    Tang Jun’s hair is awesome, it looks like a flattened version of dilbert’s boss.

  • Rick in China

    Tang Jun’s hair is awesome, it looks like a flattened version of dilbert’s boss’ hair..

  • Shanhairen

    I think the Chinese comments accurately reflect Chinese people’s feelings on the subject. They figure if the guy does a good job, then it doesn’t matter how he got there. Americans have a different view.

    When I worked in the US, we had five people working as collectors, and it was hard to find good people to fill the positions. A young woman filled one of the positions, and in the first week she appeared to be doing a very good job, and everyone liked her. But they found out that she had faked some kind of qualification, so they let her go. I think if this had happened in China they wouldn’t have checked into this certification, and even if they had they would have kept her working because she was doing a good job.

  • TigerSF

    Most people any where can tolerate a little white lie and a bit of exaggeration. But what Tang Jun did was far more insidious: complete fabrication of starting four suc¬cessful companies in California; had four patents/inventions; won a professorship at the University of Texas. These false claims are all in his auto biography, both in print and online. On one of his many TV inter views in China, he did state that he got his PhD from Cal tech. These are all in addition to his claims of non-existent academic credentials.
    Tang Jun’s lying and blatant deceptions as a very visible pub¬lic figure cannot be tolerated. Yes lots of people lie and lots of lies are never discovered. But once a serious lie is uncov-ered, the society as a whole must make a stand on moral, ethical, and legal grounds. If not, no society could survive as a viable civilization.
    If your Chinese proficiency is up to par with what the Chinese netizens are thinking on this subject, you will find majority of the young netizens is against dishonesty and demands integrity in government and businesses. Interestingly, Tang Jun’s generation is more ambivalent and tolerant on his indiscretions.
    What is hopeful here is that, perhaps, the younger generation will learn from this Tang Jun episode that honesty and integrity form the foundation for good government, just soci¬ety, vibrant communities, and ethical businesses produc¬ing safe products and offering good services.
    Morals matter. Integrity matters even more.

  • judie

    Looking through Tang’s achivement, no doubt he has got ability and talent. But as a public figure, cheating at diploma does say something about his character. Furthermore, he doesn’t even have the basic quality as a businessman-credibility.

    • TigerSF

      Tang’s achievement is, in large measure, from those in the know, a product of exaggerations, deceptions, and press releases on half truths and down right lies. His one achievement and ability: fabrication of make-believe…

      Unless you worked with him and know him professionally, everything you know about him is from the press and the media. You don’t judge a person’s achievement based on media and press releases.

  • Rk

    I think most folks in the comment section said his ability speak for his achievement. While I think that is true and people should look past the degree, I also think if he can fake his degree, can he fake financial statement and misled investors? Famous leaders are meant to be role models such as bill gates or Steve job. Lying isn’t part of it.
    The society need ethic integrity besides making money.

  • TigerSF

    Two buses are going from point A to B. Bus No. 1 has very powerful engine, goes fast, carries 100 passengers, but has bad brakes and defective steering wheel. Bus No. 2 has much smaller engine, goes slower, carries only 30 passengers, but has good brakes and good steering wheel. Now which bus will you want to get on board going downhill and on a winding road?

    Answer is pretty obvious isn’t it?

    For Bus No. 1 to be driven, it needs better brakes and better steering wheel than Bus No. 2 by virtue of its powerful engine.

    Answer is pretty obvious isn’t it?

  • http://www.地球.cn Kedafu

    “am going to gouge out your eyes and skull fuck you”

    do you know who said that comrade alain?

    how about you “hardly write well” ??

    五毛党

  • aquadraht

    I do not think that any person in the world would pay even 五分 for the crap you are defecating into the forum. That means that any uttering of 五毛党员 is worth at least ten times, if not infinitely more than your 狗屁.

  • aquadraht

    Wise comment. I underestimated you, my respect.

  • crackedbamboo

    Lying is not offset simply by the gains you make under influence of a position you lied to achieve. Lying in not only about consequences; it does in fact affect the quality of life of individuals, communities and societies. Doesn’t matter whether you’re ‘caught’ or not. You bring this ethic into your industry, into what you ‘produce’. You pervert the purpose of leadership and set poor examples for those that might look to you for it.

    Executive title aside, it’s safe to say we’re talking about lying for personal gain in this case rather than, say, lying in order to attain a pinnacle of global corporate power in order to help others. A drop in the bucket perhaps, but a ruse that collectively enables cultures of greed, dishonesty and oppression to proliferate in political, business and social interactions.

  • TTOZ

    USA and “not greedy” should never belong in the same sentence. And from pure observation, westerners have a much more apparent family first mentality.

  • PeterScriabin

    alain1976 – agreed that #1-and-family-first is an incredibly noticeable feature even of today’s Chinese culture (you know, the clean and tidy apartment interiors, and the garbage tossed onto the stairs) – but could it be more a response to history and incentives than a feature of “Chinese character”?

    I read that there was a wonderful and moving response of people all over China to the Sichuan and Qinghai earthquakes, both in terms of donating money from small pay packets, and just getting out to the site and digging in. On a slightly smaller scale, I find people in China constantly go out of their way to help me out and be friendly.

    In Mao’s time, any kind of voluntary effort, or helping and supporting others in a way not sanctioned by the CP would get you put away for a long time, or worse – because it showed your thinking was cockeyed. Even now, as we have all seen, the current CP gov seems incredibly jealous of any sort of voluntary, charitable effort that might show it up in any way.

    I think you and I are off-topic here anyway, but while we’re at it, please allow me to add one more thought. Even the (excessively) pro-family part of the charity rule is a hangover from Mao’s era (and long before). You could as well be jailed, persecuted or killed for what family members said and did, as for your own misdeeds. This would make me pretty careful to keep the whole family in line, and under-budget, too. Exactly the same dynamic (self and family preservation) often led people to denounce, or at least be indifferent to the plight of, outsiders.

  • PeterScriabin

    alain1976 – agreed that #1-and-family-first is an incredibly noticeable feature even of today’s Chinese culture (you know, the clean and tidy apartment interiors, and the garbage tossed onto the stairs) – but could it be more a response to history and incentives than a feature of “Chinese character”?

    I read that there was a wonderful and moving response of people all over China to the Sichuan and Qinghai earthquakes, both in terms of donating money from small pay packets, and just getting out to the site and digging in. On a slightly smaller scale, I find people in China constantly go out of their way to help me out and be friendly.

    In Mao’s time, any kind of voluntary effort, or helping and supporting others in a way not sanctioned by the CP would get you put away for a long time, or worse – because it showed your thinking was cockeyed. Even now, as we have all seen, the current CP gov seems incredibly jealous of any sort of voluntary, charitable effort that might show it up in any way.

    I think you and I are off-topic here anyway, but while we’re at it, please allow me to add one more thought. Even the (excessively) pro-family part of the charity rule is a hangover from Mao’s era (and long before). You could as well be jailed, persecuted or killed for what family members said and did, as for your own misdeeds. This would make me pretty careful to keep the whole family in line, and under-budget, too. Exactly the same dynamic (self- and family-preservation) often led people to denounce, or at least be indifferent to the plight of, outsiders.

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