Shoe Thrown At Ren Zhiqiang, Outspoken Property Developer

Ren Zhiqiang, CEO of Beijing Huayuan Group, giving a speech in Dalian.

Ren Zhiqiang is the CEO of real-estate property development company Beijing Huayuan Group and is popularly hated for his many comments that are unsympathetic to the many people who are unhappy and unable to afford the soaring real estate prices in China.

From NetEase and Mop:

Ren Zhiqiang encounters thrown shoe while giving speech, claims shoe-thrower isn’t even a house slave

Summary: Afternoon of the 7th, Ren Zhiqiang is at the forum held by the Dalian Real Estate Association and just after stepping on stage, a pair of shoes were thrown at the stage by a member of the audience screaming “Go to hell!”. Ren Zhiqiang laughed and said this treatment is comparable to that of a president’s, even expressing that the shoe-thrower isn’t a “house slave”, but someone who can’t even afford a down payment.

[A "house slave" is a nickname for someone who is bound to a mortgage.]

On YouTube:

From Baidu Baike:

[Ren Zhiqiang's] Infamous Quotes:

  1. “Vermicelli sold at shark’s fin price is called a “bubble” [referring to real estate bubble].
  2. Everyone can afford houses, some should not purchase more houses.
  3. “Real estate developers must horde land. Only when we have land in our hands can our hearts be at peace.”
  4. “Wages are growing, GDP is growing, so if housing prices don’t grow then it would be wrong.”
  5. “Chinese people are too rich, and houses are too cheap.”
  6. “We are just servant girls.”
  7. “Macroeconomic controls are not for housing prices to fall, but to allow them to steadily grow.”
  8. “When housing prices fall, property developers have the right to not build houses.”
  9. Real estate is supposed to be an enterprise with enormous profits.”
  10. “I am a businessman, I don’t consider the poor.”
  11. “Those people who didn’t buy houses have all lost.”
  12. There are still a lot of land in China that is still available for development.”
  13. High-end housing is supposed to be unaffordable for poor people”
  14. “Publicly revealing developer’s costs is paramount to men revealing their wives’ measurements.”
  15. “My housing prices will not drop, I would rather non-locals, even foreigners come buy my houses.”
  16. “If you can’t afford a house, why not return to the countryside?”
  17. “You dare to bite me? Well?”

Shoe Thrown at Ren Zhiqiang while he gave a speech in Dalian.

Comments from NetEase

网易陕西西安网友:

Ren Zhiqiang. Such a wasted opportunity. Why didn’t that person throw a kitchen knife? It would have been better if that person threw a kitchen knife.

网易山东青岛网友:

Actually, everything “Big Cannon” [Ren Zhiqiang's nickname] says is truth.

网易四川成都网 友:

I think Ren Zhiqiang has already explained the essence of why there a high housing price problem has developed in China, yet some people refuse to listen, which may also be why they can’t afford houses. Even from a perspective different from a buying a house, us young people should struggle [to make a life/establish oneself]. If not for a house then for what? For ourselves. This society [world] will always have different levels, and in the future when the differences are larger and larger, those who cannot afford a house should seriously reflect upon themselves.

网易澳大利亚网友:

Disgusting people I’ve seen a lot of. If they’re low-key, that’s fine. However, I’ve never met a person as disgusting as this coming out being flippant and arrogant everywhere. Well-thrown!

网易欧洲网友:

Send Sister Feng to Ren Zhiqiang. I think the two of them would really be a good pair.

网易四川成都网友:

Someone throws an old shoe towards a garbage bin and he takes himself as a president.

网易广西贵港网友:

“Big Cannon” Ren got what he deserves. People can’t even pay the down payment. Look at this world, isn’t the gap between rich and poor far too wide? What right do you have to eat delicacies every day while those who belong to the bottom levels of society should live in suffering?

网易山西太原网友:

I don’t have a bomb. If I had a bomb to throw, I would bomb you to death you bastard.

网易广西贵港网友小李:

Pummel Old Dog Ren, this dog shit. This motherfucker is too detestable!

网易广东深圳网 友:

I’ve been struggling [to make a life/establish oneself] in Shenzhen for four years, and I finally have a house that can be called my own. Amongst my classmates, I am amongst the so-called “successful”, and indeed I have “ate a lot of bitterness” [gone through many difficulties], expended a lot of energy. Nowadays, a lot of recent graduates, who didn’t study hard in school in the first place, upon entering society are not willing to “eat bitterness” [work hard] either, not willing to lower their heads and work, and yet they expect to buy a house after one or two years. Let me ask, of life’s biggest things, buying a house should be one of them. Since it is a big thing, how could it be easily realized? I think Ren Zhiqiang is right, those who are cursing him should first reflect upon themselves.

网易浙江台州网友:

Actually, our country’s real estate [situation] is not just the developers’ fault. Is the ZF not responsible for a bit of it at all? If they normally don’t take so many kickbacks, would housing prices have increased like this?

网易重庆网友:

Throw a used maxi pad to seal his mouth!!!

网易广西网友:

Anyone ant to pool money together and hire an assassin? I will offer three months salary.

网易吉林长春网友:

China’s housing prices are unable to drop now! Home speculators + developers + an imperfect system = China’s housing market.

网易河北衡水网友:

When I was in training, the teacher said: Property developers are like whores, becoming addicted to this line of work. The money comes fast with little effort. However, good people really can’t do it.

What do you think?

Cartoon depicting the shoe-throwing incident of property developer Ren Zhiqiang.

"This is the presidential treatment!"

The shoes thrown at outspoken property developer Ren Zhiqiang.

UPDATE: Some more translated information at EastSouthWestNorth.

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  • AAron

    Good job man! The price of property really grow up too fast

  • jimmythebeast

    and jimmythebeast easily claims teh first post

  • Jean

    oh shit, im first!!

    Btw, I think that he is very arrogant, but he’s a business man. From a business man point of view, he quotes are right!

    • Jean

      well, maybe next time.

    • Pussay Player

      But the dumbest thing he could do is reveal his thoughts. Business is business, but purposely not building houses just so poor people can’t ever own a home? Now that’s just low.

      • Jean

        as a business man he should know that there is a very big market for houses for low income people. but it seems that no one is interested in that market…but that market is not as profitable as the high – end one.

        The problem with China is that most of the people pay their apartment with CASH, thus it makes people think (especially the property developer) that Chinese people has money, which in fact is somewhat true. Just my two cents!

  • Someone

    wow who would’ve thought, i was just there in that room 4 months ago

  • Keninchina

    The problem with the Chinese housing market is that a lot of the common masses use the collective savings of the family, sometimes extended family to pay for the down payment. I’m not an expert but when housing price in 1st tier cities is close to 1000 times rent value of the same unit, I think its a pretty clear indication that most property are over valued.

    Add the fact that they’re not really buying right to the property but a 70 year lease from the Communist government, in a country with 700 million farmers, and an average wage probably around 1500-2000 RMB a month, where 70% of GDP come from constructing infrastructure, and the primary industry (making socks and shoes for the world?) is facing increasing difficulty from both within the country (macroeconomic measures aimed at cooling the economy) and from abroad (the Communist government just aint that popular worldwide…) I’d say anyone who’s buying property, especially at current prices are out of their minds!

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_nanjing That Chinese Kid

    build shitty housing on shitty land for the poor. Problem solved.

    • Wastemans

      All housing in china is ‘shitty’. The workmanship is wanting and the investments funds all embezzled.

      They even get gentrification wrong and just lick the whole edifice with a coat of stale paint and put a few guards in feeble boy-bodies outside and then suddenly the bourgeoisie pay berk prices.

      Shitty Land? Pretty much all developed land in china is ‘Shitty’. They just wing the whole drainage system. The foundation soil is either too soused or too brittle from desiccation.

      According to my projections the major Cities will debacle in the next 3 months or so.

  • Cool Matt

    Title is wrong. Should be “Show thrown FOR Ren Zhiqiang…”

    • Alex

      Actually, it’s SHOE thrown at…

      Small typo.

  • 练练英语

    A very simple question.

    If you have enough money,buy the house.If you don’t,why not build your own thatched cottage.Building a villa(Beijing standard) in the countryside in Jiangsu is no more than 200,000 yuan.

  • Rick in China

    The best comment is the one that acknowledges what he says as mostly being the truth, just that he does it publicly in an arrogant and flippant way, which obviously angers peasantry who will never be able to afford a house outside of the countryside.

    • http://www.counterfeitchic.com/Images/Mao_Jordan_cropped.jpg Alikese

      Definitely. Every business man in China thinks the same way. Those other commenters are seriously deluding themselves if they think the CEOs of huge companies are looking out for the common man, or working out of a philanthropic mindset. Cannon Ren just has the balls to tell the people he’s fucking them while he does it.

      • http://chinadivide.com Kai

        There are a lot of issues at play here.

        I get the feeling that a lot of people are upset with the obscene profits he can make and think that’s fundamentally “wrong”, that no one should get obscene profits doing anything, that its “unfair”. To that, I’d say he is entitled to large profits if he’s taking large risks, which is often the case with property development. That’s capitalism. That’s risk vs. reward.

        On the other hand, I recognize that he’s also a beneficiary of an imperfect system and arguably a broken property market that reduces risk yet still yields obscene profits. There’s a bit of a ponzi scheme in that though and its hard to say who is fleecing who, whether the rich are fleecing each other or if there’s enough aggregate rich fleecing of aggregate poor as opposed to simply the rich dominating a market and thereby pricing out the poor.

        Along with that, it isn’t difficult to understand a general populace’s belief and desire that the government cater to their needs and desires versus only a subset like the rich. That’s socialism. That’s Europe. It isn’t hard to empathize with the average Chinese guy who feels too much of the current system serves the rich instead of them.

        • Tins of Sardines

          “… I get the feeling that a lot of people are upset with the obscene profits he can make and think that’s fundamentally “wrong”, that no one should get obscene profits doing anything, that its “unfair”…”

          Kai, isn’t China a communist country? Isn’t that the basis of communist thinking? I am not surprised people are angry. I would be a tad miffed.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Actually, no, that isn’t the basis of Communist thinking or theory. Practically speaking, China isn’t a communist country either. It’s only communist in name and self-profession.

            People taking issue with anyone making “obscene” profits, seeing it as somehow “unfair” is more about human social psychology than Communism as a social, political, or economic concept.

            Using an example well-known to most, think about the current outrage many Americans have over CEO pay, especially Wall St. CEOs and especially over banking bailouts. This is not really about Communism as it is just thinking some people don’t deserve what they get. As with Wall St., the property developers in China are arguably exploiting a broken system or a system that is stacked in their favor. Some of the heat they get is thus deserved just as the government deserves a lot of the heat it gets for not reforming these systems to be, well, less broken or stacked towards benefiting the few at the expense of the many.

  • FYIADragoon

    IF the Chinese R/E market, and the whole of their business market in general wasn’t so horribly corrupt, then this wouldn’t be a big deal at all. Even Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, for all of their charity, probably feel this way. BUT, the voicing of this opinion would normally kill a businesses’ PR, basically raping all of their marketing. The issue here is that the people don’t have any right whatsoever to decide who they buy their house from.

  • Hongjian

    I somehow like this man. Very honest and cynic.

    That being said, during Mao’s time, he would be tortured to death by dem red guards for propagading capitalist injustice.

    Maaan, Mao, where the hell are you, when the people really needs you for once?

  • Karma

    “My housing prices will not drop, I would rather non-locals, even foreigners come buy my houses.”

    Is there a country anywhere in the world where this comment would go down well?

    I doubt it.

  • http://www.tidbitsfromtheworld.com Alex

    “网易山西太原网友:

    I don’t have a bomb. If I had a bomb to throw, I would bomb you to death you bastard.”

    Maybe the Chinese are more free than Westerners when it comes to expressing violent thoughts on the Internet. If you write anything similar on a message board in the West, you would get yourself in big trouble!

    • http://www.counterfeitchic.com/Images/Mao_Jordan_cropped.jpg Alikese

      I live in the US, let’s see if I get visited by the NSA tonight.

      Ahem.

      Alex, I am going to bomb your house tonight. Then I’ll watch with a bowl of noodles and a cold beer as it goes down in flames.

    • http://www.tidbitsfromtheworld.com Alex

      Hehe, you know what I mean! Some investigations are started just from some messages left on forums. You need to be more convincing with your threats, otherwise the NSA/CIA/FBI won’t waste their time on you.

  • Gloris

    House price is increasing rapidly recent years and caused the curious phenomenon. On one aspect, many wage earners can not afford the extortionate property price; on the other side, faster increase in price boost the perspective that future increase might be stronger, therefore the higher price stimulating the market demands. The social division and wealth gap were to expand by the soaring property price.

  • elenore

    I understand why people are Mad.They are over paying so a developer can make money off private state lands.It’s bull shit.I get mad as well.In Michigan 1/2 the state is owned by the State of Michigan however companies get to use Natural Gas and Water and Mineral resources to make money,these companies even get tax exemptions from State and Local government so they pay no taxes but make profits of public land resources than Voters and Middle Class tax payers get to pay clean up and high prices to these companies who usually have a monopoly.Bull Shit.It’s wrong.If you use public resources they should be priced affordable for the public use.

    • elenore

      Corporate greed using Public resources to make profit.It’s sad.Corporate Greed is ruing just about every country on this planet.

  • Johny-5

    chinese people are fucked up. they react more strongly over a bucket of chicken than having a place to live. but then, that development company is chinese owned. it may have been quite different if it was foreign owned.

    • http://chinadivide.com Kai

      You’ve clearly never seen photos and news reports of buyer riots and protests at property developer showrooms and sales offices. You might want to expand your consumption of Chinese news rather than just relying on chinaSMACK. Either that, or lose the selective memory. The difference between the KFC fiasco and the home protests is that the latter happens quite often and has become old news that isn’t as newsworthy.

      • Johny-5

        you clearly don’t know what i have seen or know. unless you’re a mind reader, you might want to consider more carefully before making such presumptions. and as for selective memory, i’ll lose mine when you lose your hyper-sensitivity to criticism (percieved or actual) towards chinese.

        • http://chinadivide.com Kai

          Fine, troll-boy, I’ll clarify:

          It’s clear to me you’ve never seen….

          I consider very carefully what presumptions I make about you based upon what I’ve read from you. You make your presumptions about Chinese society based on what you know or remember about Chinese society and I make my presumptions about you based on what I know and remember about you. Albeit imperfect, what we choose to say often reflects what we know and remember. What you consider to be my hyper-sensitivity to criticism towards Chinese, I consider to be your hyper-sensitivity towards anti-foreigner incidents involving the Chinese.

          We’re not so different, you and I.

      • Tins of Sardines

        The Chinese news really likes to point out cases of dissent?

        On CCTV9 I saw nothing of the protest undertaken by displaced citizens leading up to the Beijing Olympics.

        Are you sure that the Chinese news will enlighten me with these events?

        Kai, you talk just to be heard and want the final say on everything. You want to be an authority but you come across as quite the knob.

        You can’t argue with peoples opinions.

        • http://chinadivide.com Kai

          Tins,

          Where did I say anything about cases of dissent (specifically political dissent)? I think you’re muddying the issue here.

          Johny-5 argues in multiple comments that we only hear about Chinese people kicking up a storm when something involves foreigners. This isn’t true, as Chinese people kick up storms over many things when it doesn’t involve foreigners at all. My example about housing prices and sales and arrogant rich people are clear examples.

          If I wanted the final say on everything, I’d respond to a lot more comments. I personally don’t think I want to be an authority but I won’t begrudge you for thinking that and feeling I come across as quite the knob. At least on the latter, I feel likewise about you.

          Of course I can argue with people’s opinions. Why not? You’re arguing with mine, aren’t you? Don’t be silly.

          • Johny-5

            i was pointing out that when a situation involve foreigners, things get brought to another level. it practically becomes a a national issue.

          • Tins of Sardines

            Ok then, my bad.

            I might just get a few of my friends and start protesting about some benign issue because the government has no objections to large crowds voicing an opinion in public about anything. I will get CCTV coverage to so maybe I will need to also wear my best frock.

            Tins of sardines has the final word.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Johny-5,

            Were you now?

            chinese people are fucked up. they react more strongly over a bucket of chicken than having a place to live. but then, that development company is chinese owned. it may have been quite different if it was foreign owned.

            Judging by how much Chinese people complain about housing prices, that the affordability of housing has been a persistent issue for years now, one that is regularly reported in the national news and internet space by anyone who actually pays attention, I’d say Chinese reaction to having a place to live is far stronger than the few days Chinese people talked about the KFC Chicken Bucket fiasco you invoke as your prime example.

            You also suggest that there’s less outrage because the development company is Chinese owned as opposed to foreign-owned. Hello, this post and the history of public hatred for Ren Zhiqiang directly contradicts your suggestion here. This was a Chinese guy throwing a pair of shoes against a Chinese CEO of a Chinese property development company, with the audience clapping and cheering him on, with the internet mobs praising him and piling on more shit-talking about Ren Zhiqiang. This has happened pretty much every time Ren Zhiqiang or some other rich Chinese prick says something categorically insensitive and offensive to the sensibilities of the Chinese general populace.

            why don’t the chinese people kick more shit about this like they did over microsoft, coco-cola, kfc, etc.? the chinese people always seem to get their ‘feelings hurt’ and go on a rampage whenever a foreign company/government/person does/says something that they don’t like, but not so much reaction from them when it’s one of their own doing/saying something unpleasant.

            See above.

            there are alot more cases of han fucking other ethnic groups in china than cases of foreigners fucking chinese. rather than rising up against kfc,

            See above.

            As I said before, I think the only reason you feel this way is because you’re either ignorant of the countless constantly available examples of Chinese people kicking up a storm over shit that happens at the hands of themselves or other Chinese people OR you have selective memory. I’m not downplaying the fact that issues involving foreigners do rile up Chinese people in their own special way (not unlike anywhere else — Illegal Mexican immigrants in America? Middle-Eastern/”Brown” immigration in Europe?), I’m simply pointing out that your representation of the relative frequency of such phenomenon is grossly inaccurate.

          • Johny-5

            kai, you’re talking about frequency. i’m talking about amplitude.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Johny-5,

            kai, you’re talking about frequency. i’m talking about amplitude.

            No, I actually refer to both frequency and amplitude AS WELL AS frequency AS amplitude. For each instance of angry Chinese KFC patrons rushing the kitchen to grab fried chicken, there are dozens of instances of Chinese home-buyers literally trashing showrooms and sales offices, often including the company reps in them.

            Again, I simply think you weigh instances involving foreigners more than instances where only Chinese are involved. Why? One reason may be availability bias, but that’s just one amongst many possible.

          • Johny-5

            i heard some of those perps were disgruntled, but not over what issue specifically. where did you get your information that their rage was over housing prices? either way, those were relatively isolated incidents. how do you think things would play out if it was a foreigner who had done those things? i don’t know about you, but if it had been a foreigner, i’d be on the first plane out of the country.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Jones,

            The beef with foreigners here and there are actually quite different. I mean, yeah, it has to do with “foreigners”, but that’s pretty much the only common denominator.

            There are differences and similarities beyond “foreigners”. For example, the feeling that outsiders are taking what belongs or should remain for insiders. The difference you’re suggesting, but I think is overweighted, is that you think Chinese hate foreigners simply because they’re foreigners, whereas Americans and Europeans hate foreigners only because of what those foreigners have done. That’s not true. There are people who hate on identity alone as well as people who hate on the consequences in all of these places. This really isn’t a issue you should try defending or draw exceptions and excuses for. Frankly, the sentiments these people have are all very understandable, just not personally agreeable to us.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Johny-5,

            i heard some of those perps were disgruntled, but not over what issue specifically. where did you get your information that their rage was over housing prices?

            Which perps are you referring to?

            either way, those were relatively isolated incidents.

            More isolated than the KFC fiasco? What? You see Chinese people protesting KFC on a daily basis or something? I can’t identify with your definition of “isolated” here.

            how do you think things would play out if it was a foreigner who had done those things? i don’t know about you, but if it had been a foreigner, i’d be on the first plane out of the country.

            If a foreigner did what things?

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Sorry, I just realized you were probably responding to Jones. No wonder I had no idea what you were referring to.

          • Johny-5

            yea, well jones i think the communist part is more than happy to use foreigners as a ‘deflector’ shield, so they can redirect public rage at foreigners and keep the heat off of themselves.

          • Tins of Sardines

            Granted. However, if it weren’t for the anonymity (apparent or otherwise) provided by the internet, do you really think people would be so vocal?

            Do you see any of this on national, state owned television?

        • Johny-5

          haha, man.. i was thinking the EXACT same word.. “knob”

  • Yin

    Ren Zhiqiang simply says it like it is. Unlike the West, China’s PR machine still has some grease on its wheels, so sometimes the truth comes out without being polished by a hundred sycophantic “customer relation” robots. Could Ren Zhiqiang have put it in a way that was more pleasant to listen to, while having basically the same policy for his company? Oh yeah.

    • Johny-5

      why don’t the chinese people kick more shit about this like they did over microsoft, coco-cola, kfc, etc.? the chinese people always seem to get their ‘feelings hurt’ and go on a rampage whenever a foreign company/government/person does/says something that they don’t like, but not so much reaction from them when it’s one of their own doing/saying something unpleasant.

      • suicidal tendancy

        “Chinese people feelings” is decided in committees by the government.
        A good old ultra-nationalistic propaganda based on a massive cases of feelings hurt because of foreign countries/companies actions is always good to focus people’s attention away from internal problems.

        So except if that guy starts to really annoy people in gov (such as sending too small red envelopes and stop hiring their relatives at very high fake managerial positions), he can say whatever he wants, and “only a few people” will have their feeling hurts.

        • Johny-5

          there are alot more cases of han fucking other ethnic groups in china than cases of foreigners fucking chinese. rather than rising up against kfc, why don’t the people in china piss all over mao’s grave, and then consider what they themselves have done to hurt the feelings of other peoples in china?

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Chinese people kick up shit about things other Chinese people are responsible for all the time. The only thing is that you remember them kicking up shit over things foreigners are responsible for more. That’s not their problem. That’s your problem, your inability to accurately appraise the frequency and pervasiveness of the two phenomenon. Your problem is registering the KFC post in your list of things to define the Chinese by while forgetting the other posts like this one or the House Stealing Girl post.

          • Johny-5

            kai, when i read your posts it reminds me of something one of my professors once said to me, years ago. “beware of people using long winded arguments and/or excessively using jargon, as those people are most likely trying to confuse you”. basically kai, he was saying that people like you are full of shit.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            In other words, you know you’ve been caught in an indefensible position but have to resort to criticizing my vocabulary and my command of language to save face. As if I’ve never met that crutch before. Come now, “Johny-5″, you seem to be know me well. If so, you know my detractors use that one all the time and it never fazes me.

          • Johny-5

            hahahahaha, now that is funny. i’m not chinese, so i don’t feel the need to save face, as perhaps you do. and, i don’t know you at all, except for the few comments of yours that i’ve read here on chinasmack. i can only make inferences which may or may not be accurate. for the record, i wasn’t trying to insult your command of the language, more like i was implying that you appear to use language less for clarity and more for obscurity..

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Johny-5,

            hahahahaha, now that is funny. i’m not chinese, so i don’t feel the need to save face, as perhaps you do.

            No one ever said you have to be Chinese to save face. Saving face isn’t even really a Chinese concept. Let me put it in terms you may be more familiar with: “not looking bad”.

            and, i don’t know you at all, except for the few comments of yours that i’ve read here on chinasmack. i can only make inferences which may or may not be accurate.

            Right. That’s what we’re both doing.

            for the record, i wasn’t trying to insult your command of the language, more like i was implying that you appear to use language less for clarity and more for obscurity..

            No, you weren’t insulting my command of the language. I didn’t say that. I said you were resorting to criticizing my command of the language to save face for being caught in an indefensible position. You said something I found objectionable. I voiced my objection. Instead of defending your position (hopefully because you admit it is indefensible), you went on the offensive to attack me as a person. You didn’t like that I questioned your opinion and are thus trying to throw shit on me personally to redirect attention. That’s you “saving face”.

          • Johny-5

            in case you didn’t know (or selective memory?), the phrase “lose face” was a chinese concept that the japanese borrowed and then was picked up by english-speaking people. and, actually i was just making fun of you cause it appears you just talk talk talk until you put people to sleep or they simply stop responding, and you take that as a validation for your argument.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Johny-5,

            Sigh, I understand the etymology of the phrase “save face”. I’m talking about the phenomenon it refers to, the basic concept of not wanting to look bad before others. That human desire is not inherently Chinese and thus only applicable to Chinese people.

            and, actually i was just making fun of you cause it appears you just talk talk talk until you put people to sleep or they simply stop responding, and you take that as a validation for your argument.

            Yeah, as if I never heard that one before. You’re really giving it to me now. I’m just waiting for more of my detractors to join you so you could all feel validated by each others’ reinforcing presence in your dislike of me.

          • Johny-5

            kai kai kai, you’re so sensitive. anyway, i didn’t say ‘saving face’ was unique or even indigenous to chinese culture, but certainly i would say that it’s an inherrent part of the culture. whereas i would not not say it’s inherrent in western culture. you can watch our television shows and see how much we love to embarrass each other and ourselves. that being said, i don’t need anyone to support my opinion cause it’s valid to me regardless.. o, and incidentily, i think you could say ‘i don’t like’ you cause it just implies an absense of affection, but ‘dislike’ is not appropriate as it would suggest that i have negative emotion towards you.

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Johny-5,

            i didn’t say ’saving face’ was unique or even indigenous to chinese culture,

            Did you now?

            hahahahaha, now that is funny. i’m not chinese, so i don’t feel the need to save face, as perhaps you do.

            I suggested you felt the need to save face. You countered that you’re not Chinese so you wouldn’t feel that need. Isn’t that you suggesting that saving face is unique or indigenous to Chinese culture?

            Someone, you even made an assumption that perhaps I do, that perhaps I do because of what? Because I may be Chinese?

            Come on now. I’m shameless about one thing: The more disingenuous you are, the more I’m going to stick it to you.

            but certainly i would say that it’s an inherrent part of the culture. whereas i would not not say it’s inherrent in western culture.

            Yes, many people (usually Westerners) think that way. I personally disagree but that’s not really the subject of our disagreement here.

            you can watch our television shows and see how much we love to embarrass each other and ourselves.

            Uh, there are plenty of shows like that in China, Japan, Korea, and other Asian countries where you argue that “saving face” is inherent to their culture. That doesn’t prove that Westerners don’t care about being embarrassed.

            that being said, i don’t need anyone to support my opinion cause it’s valid to me regardless..

            Right, I’ve picked up on that already. A real shame. I just have to settle for putting my opinion next to your’s.

            o, and incidentily, i think you could say ‘i don’t like’ you cause it just implies an absense of affection, but ‘dislike’ is not appropriate as it would suggest that i have negative emotion towards you.

            How about this? My opnion, which is valid to me regardless, is that you do have negative emotion towards me for you to still be the other half of this conversation.

          • Johny-5

            haha, kai you’re so sensitive. actually, that jab about not being chinese was directed at you in particular, just cause unless i’m way off here, i’d say that you’re chinese. and, although i still deny having any negative emotion towards you, you ofcourse are entitled to your opinions. live long and prosper (yes, i’m making a jab about you being a trekkie).

          • http://chinadivide.com Kai

            Johny-5,

            Cheers.

  • dilladonuts

    OFF TOPIC, sorry but,

    can someone in China explain WTF is going on with the internet right now as its functioning at a retarded pace.

    • http://chinadivide.com Kai

      Huh? Internet seems to be fine for me here in Shanghai. Maybe its your connection?

  • Shanhairen

    In general, I think Chinese people’s views on house prices are too conspiratorial. I don’t think the government and developers can simply set prices and force people to pay them. If the prices are too high, then it is because it is a classic investment bubble. If we see many people wanting to sell and few willing buyers, prices will drop dramatically. And once panic sets in, it will be too easy for people to sell their apartments especially when so many of them are unfinished and unoccupied.

    • suicidal tendency

      You miss part of the problem:

      Chinese development is still very new compared to Europe/US. Investors don’t have the maturity to evaluate risks, they just see profits.

      So, everybody know it’s a bubble, but all people who can afford it will buy 2, 3 apartments in attempt to become richer and assume they’ll be smart enough to sell before the bubble collapses.

      There are already a very large quantities of apartments empty in plenty of residences, but the price keeps on increasing!

      China faces a very big economy crisis sooner or later. But the logic there says that economy crisis can happen everywhere, so if it’s not here right now, you shouldn’t care.

      • Joe

        It is because young Chinese people believe they will not be able to find a spouse unless they have a house, making housing prices ridiculously inelastic. The fact that Chinese people do use family money communally probably doesn’t help much either. This is developers taking advantage of Chinese culture.

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  • keius

    Not sure how easily the bubble can really burst in China. The system there is different. In the US, the developer can’t just sit on land and resources. They have to pay fees, penalties, taxes, etc. In China, most regions don’t have a property tax. If it doesn’t sell, then it sits there until it does. No penalties to minor penalties makes it stupid for developers to sell for less.
    Something else to consider, buying property, like someone else said really is like leasing from the government. There will come a time, the property gets beat up and the government will coming calling. They’ll seize the land and give you a pissant amount for it. It makes MUCH more sense to rent. Wish my in-laws did that. Having to contribute to them buying an apartment last year sucked **s when they’ll be leaving China for the states in another year or so. Rental fee’s aren’t increasing with the property value boom. Developers just sit on property that doesn’t sell.

    I’ll say it again, without a market mechanism to make it a bad strategy to sit on unsold property, property prices will not drop. The gov’t needs to tax unsold properties. The problem is that most of the real estate developers are in cahoots with the officials. Taxing homes would suck badly for those who can’t afford it, so why not a property tax on unsold land. At least the gov’t isn’t as nutty as the Korean gov’t is right now….buying unsold property from developers to keep the market from blowing up….

  • C&N

    Come on! Fracking shoe throwers these days are all brain dead hippies without a mote of creativity. If you want old school go throw a rock.

  • Somethin Somethin

    thats alright we’ll see what this guy does when the property market tanks because of over-speculation.

  • http://imgur.com/gGpso.png PUSAN PLAYA

    This is a matter for guillotines, not shoes

    Ohh sorry I forgot, China is ruled by a glorious Proletarian Dictatorship so there’s no need to resort to violence

    Ohh wait…..

  • manusan

    Deng said in 1979 : enrich you, it’s shameful to be poor.
    So this guy is a good chinese communist.

  • kylening

    what a shame! sad!!!! so many people laugh when the fucking guy compare himself to a president. maybe i just comfore myself that the foolishs are laughing at the TMD devil.

  • Keninchina

    It is an open conspiracy, where state owned but privately ran real estate companies are allotted massive resources using tax payer dollars who then create bidding wars pushing up the price of land and hence, the the cost of the buildings. The regional governments promote this behavior because they are making massive amounts of money from selling land.

    It is a transfer of money, from the banks (ie. tax payers) to the regional governments and everybody involved gets a slice of the pie. But the averagejoe sees this phenomenon as an issue of supply and demand, prompting a real estate buying frenzy that justifies the phenomenon but in reality, it was never about the people, it’s about the transfer of wealth from individuals to the government so the Communist regime can keep its giant bureaucracy from collapsing.

  • fireworks

    The property developer quotes sounds like a used car sales man. Trying to belittle everyone to make the unsuspecting consumer fall for his marketing gimmicks, baseless assumptions and biased forecast.

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  • http://yanxishan.wordpress.com/ Yan Xishan

    Yeah, they are already doing that:

    http://tinyurl.com/23j8w2e

    I think I prefer the less clever shoe throwing.

  • Rick in China

    Wow.

    That’s terrible news. What the fuck is going on here – what the FUCK is wrong with people that they target kids with knives. I don’t understand why it SEEMS to be a “china thing”, I know there are fucked up people in every country that target kids for different reasons, but this is the first time I’ve seen repeated attacks on kids (at schools?) with fuckin knives by middle aged guys.

    Gov’t seriously needs to put some resources on this. Undercover ‘teachers’ all over schools – labour is cheap, it’s not expensive to stop a single knife wielding random old dude walking into primary school or whatever.

  • http://yanxishan.wordpress.com/ Yan Xishan

    I agree that the Chinese government should beef up security at schools.

    But they should also address the underlying problem–you have a surprisingly large number of people who are completely cut off from the possibility of economic prosperity, and feel so so hopeless that they only thing they can think of doing is to attack the one group weaker then they perceive themselves to be–kids.

    One step might be to listen to their concerns (like forced land grabs by corrupt businessmen and cadres). Another step might be to ask blowhards like Ren Zhiqiang to STFU, as what he is bragging about, well there is a lot of truth to it, and that is why people get pissed off at him.

  • http://www.bizbag.com/Misc%20articles/Rap%20Lyrics%20Translated.htm yournametobynow

    My reading of it is that in most societies people attack their peer groups. You always have a certain number of mental cases who are angry with society, flip out and murder a bunch of people – it’s just that in most countries they attack their peers. For some reason, people in China are taking out their aggression against society on children.

    Which is weird. My opinion is it probably has something to do with the one-child policy and culture of baby-worship it engenders. If a person wants to damage society, the easiest and most obvious target is children. I hate to say it, but in America if you kill someone’s kid they’re likely to have another. In China you’ve permanently and irrevocably destroyed the hopes, dreams, and future of 6 adults.

    But I don’t really know. I ask my students and they say it’s because children are easy targets, but I don’t buy that. These people want to die, mostly, so why not suicide by cop? It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    Anyway I have no idea why housing in China is so expensive considering the huge amount of brand-new apartment buildings that currently stand unoccupied and unsold. In my city there’s probably 30-40 of them and people are still building more. Nobody lives there. The things are completely empty, and have already started falling apart. My friend lives in one of these complexes with like 20 buildings and only 2 of them have anywhere near 50% occupancy. One of the ground-floor apartments currently has chickens living in it. Surely the market cannot sustain this.

    Expect a massive drop in real estate prices as soon as people figure out that building luxury apartments that no one buys means losing a ton of money.

  • aquadraht

    I guess you do not understand the economic mechanism. If RE prices are rising 15% per annum, this means that they double within less that 5 years. This means: If any person takes all her savings, and some of the family and guanxi to buy a property, when selling after 5 yrs all debts may be paid on and still the full former price will be in the hands of the purchaser. This is a money making machine as long as it lasts. Therefore, apartments are often rented dead cheap, right enough to pay current cost, not investment.

    This process ist self-maintaining as long as it lasts. It is NOT a conspiracy of a few evil rich speculators, but a wronggoing market mechanism. The trend can only be broken by a backlash of property prices. In that case the propensity to buy will wane, and the process won’t feed itself anymore. Some people will lose money. Room rents will go up as they will be expected to contribute to downpayment of the whole property.

  • http://thebigc.blog.com Narsfweasels

    Dude, don’t even joke about the CIA invading China, some Wu Mao will grab hold of this post and use it to incite more hatred of Running Dogs like us :(

  • Rick in China

    Huh? I thought most of the attacks were wuwuwu some woman rejected me related?

    Failing at life is not something society or the government can solve.

  • Joe

    They should do a Chinese re-make of Kindergarten Cop

  • Joe

    (Except for real)

  • Bando

    Kind of sad that the government NEEDS to have armed guards to protect children because there are those whose morality doesn’t make them feel guilty for attacking children.

  • Tins of Sardines

    I think a midget would suffice in this instance.

  • aquadraht

    Guobao, I did not indend to offend you saying you do not understand the economic mechanism. In fact, incomes in China are rising at an only somewhat slower pace than property prices, yet still at double digit rates during most of the last decade. The demand side is quite strong and has a lot of money, this is not just a bubble where prices stray away from any kind of reality fueled by indebtment. It is mainly in some metropolitan areas such as Beijing, Shanghai, or Shenzhen where property prices are that extremely at a runaway pace.

    And even, their, normal people, taking all the resources of themselves and their families, can and do take profit out of the property boom. That is why it does not easily go away: their is a huge lot of savings in the Chinese society, and, apart from the banking and financial sector, it is often given as a private loan to relatives and guanxi. And as long as property prices are rising predictably, this strategy will pay. Thus, though property price development is not sustainable on the long range, it is not easy to be fought. The strength of the property market is that most customers still are paying cash, all interest and reserve interventions of the central bank are powerless against that.

    I am well aware of the hardships of that situation for people in need of a property for marriage or family founding. It is obvious that the authorities in China are aware, too. Problems are: 1. Some of the local and regional taxes are stemming from contributions of the developers and construction firms. That is one of the major sources of forced evictions and other unpleasant phenomena where local officials and developers are colluding. 2. The art will be to bring down the overheated market without hurting construction industries and workplaces. Here, the authorities are in kind of a double bind: shutting down the construction boom may be dangerous for social stability, even more that excessive property prices. 3. As pointed out, there is a lot of money of normal Chinese people in the property market, among them private loans which are hard to estimate, but are clearly huge. There is more than one party affected: what is good for new family founders may be hard for mid-aged Chinese who gave their savings to some family members.

    I am interested if and how the Chinese government will cope with the property price problems. It won’t be an easy task.

  • http://chinadivide.com Kai

    It is times like these where I wish the voting system here was still around, where I could at least give a +1 to those who still bother posting genuine comments and engaging in genuine discussion.

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