New Chinese Marriage Law Protects Men’s Assets, Angers Women

A man and woman fight over a house in a new interpretation of China's Marriage Law.

From PCbaby:

Marriage Law’s latest judicial interpretation controversy, accused of favoring the already advantaged

Guide: “Whoever paid the down payment is whoever the house should belong to following a divorce”, “The other party has shall have no right to divide up a house purchased and given by one’s parents following marriage”… The publishing of the Supreme People’s Court’s judicial interpretation of the latest Marriage Law immediately ignited fierce arguments between men and women online. Many netizens believe the new Marriage law is “good news” for men, protecting their advantageous position in a marriage, and damaging the interests of the weaker party.

The new Marriage Law that “encourages completely ‘going Dutch‘” has also been made fun as “delighting real estate developers and pissing off mother-in-laws”. However, there are also netizens who believe that the new interpretation of the Marriage Law may change young people’s ideas on how to choose partners, going from preferring “wealthy second generation” [children of wealthy parents] to preferring mutually compatible “people with future potential”.

Oppose:

“Favors” men, protects the more powerful party

“How can the new Marriage Law be this harsh towards women? The male chauvinism is too serious!” Netizen Chen Di expressed her view through her microblog, and the number of netizens who shared her opinion were not the minority, with many female netizens believing “this sweeps aside the last obstacle against men being unfaithful” and “will cause the divorce rate to go up”. Netizen “Ling Mei” says: “I’ve always believe that there are more unfaithful men than women who cheat men out of their assets, and women devote more than men in the family. (The new Marriage Law) might as well add another article: Whoever the house belongs to is whoever should clean it!” Netizen “寞 香” was even more realistic and blunt: “What woman who doesn’t already have a house will now dare to give birth to a child? After giving birth, if the man cheats on her, wouldn’t she end up sleeping in the streets with her child!” The new Marriage Law has not only enraged women, some male netizens have also expressed “a lot of pressure”. Netizen Yuan Datuo believes: The new Marriage Law may actually lead to — if the house isn’t put under the woman’s name, the woman will refuse to get married, and as a result the man must pay an even higher price for marriage. “If you look at it from the other side, if the parents-in-law buy a house, then the son-in-law also won’t have a stake/claim, right?”

Approve:

Fights marriages by fraud [deceiving someone into marriage], encourages independence

In comparison to the swelling voices of condemnation, some supporting viewpoints believe the new Marriage Law strongly combats the phenomenon of “deceiving someone into marriage” [for their assets], and at the same time also gives the young men of ordinary families a chance to compete with the “wealthy second generation” [children of rich parents]. Netizen LuvJen expressed: “Isn’t the new Marriage Law a good thing? The man paying money to buy the house while the woman gets to marry and then sit idly enjoying the fruits of his labors was always unfair. Is marriage just for obtaining a house?” Netizen “小之与麦田” was very satisfied: For those of us poor and blank youth, this is a good policy. “索男型birt号” says: “If the New Marriage Law can curb the twisted ‘finding a sugar daddy/gold-digging’ view of love, I think it’s good!” There were also female netizens who expressed that the new Marriage Law lets women see clearly that “men are unreliable, one can only rely on oneself”, and “Women of the new age definitely should be able to buy houses by themselves, buy cars by themselves, and become more and more independent and strong.

Jokes:

Delights real estate developers, pisses off mother-in-laws

Some more neutral netizens seemed to be rather pessimistic/cynical, believing that men and women don’t mind believing the worst of each other in fights these days.

“When people are so calculating both before and after marriage, is there still any point to marriage at all?” This reporter discovered that most of the dispute over the new Marriage Law still revolved around “the house” and, because of this, many people believe this is good news for real estate developers, as there will be even more single people willing to buy houses. One female netizen sighed that she’s pregnant and now no matter whether she gives birth to a boy or a girl, they [as parents] will still have to prepare to buy another house [for their child].”

A house and wedding ring rest on a scale.

"The house dad and mom buy their son, the daughter-in-law has no part (claim to)."

Comments from Tianya:

马甲青青百合:

That’s why I say the balance has been upset. For thousands of years, the men contribute more financially while the women have children who take the father’s surname.
Now the law uses the attitude of upholding justice to announce the women that the man doesn’t have to contribute more financially and even what he does will always remain his. What more, all of the rights to the house are always given to the man (I’m talking about ordinary circumstances, so don’t tell me how women can also make money and buy houses).
Which is to say, what men were originally supposed to provide in a marriage they can now perfectly legitimately not provide.
But the contributions of women must be contributed as before. You want to change that Then you go work hard on your own, go consult on your own, because the law is definitely not going to put women first. The discrimination is too obvious.

Let me reiterate, if the finances/assets are split too clearly, it will only upset the balance. No one is stupid, no one is willing to contribute [to a marriage] for nothing.

那一抹陌上的尘:

Feelings are the most important factor in a marriage, not a house or anything else…

蝶舞仙草20070731:

This new judicial interpretation is what those brainless old government officials do when they have so much time on their hands that their balls ache to dick with the rabble. Are you guys the ones who have nothing better to do every day than to keep your eyes on them? So now they throw this kind of 2B regulation at you guys. Go ahead and argue against each other……… Whoever believes is also a 2B………

马甲青青百合:

Just looking at the number of women in China’s highest levels of government
you will now that things can never be equal. It [government] is a man’s game.
It would be ridiculous to expect the things drafted by men to be equal/fair, were there any women in the drafting process for this marriage law?
In all my years, I know I have the citizen’s right to vote, but do I have the opportunity to vote?
Don’t talk to me about whatever “people’s representative”, have I ever agreed to have him represent me?
The country’s government is all appointed, not elected. They make the rules of the game for themselves to play, without being embarrassed at all.

丁超1998:

So just why are we getting married for?

张打醋1:

The new Marriage Law is simply taking another step towards realizing the basic concepts of “male and female equality” and private property, and the poor Chinese women who have gotten used to depending on men are already unable to bear it [thus complaining].

abc1235188:

Why is this policy being issued now? Of those who made this law, which one of them doesn’t have several houses? They are simply protecting their own assets from being split away by outsiders (daughters-in-law and sons-in-law) and this is the simple truth.

饭煮糊了:

It really isn’t necessary to argue back and forth like this, so tiring.
If women don’t like it, you really can just not get married. Instead, make a living, buy a house, and buy a car by yourselves. When you want to have children, you can even use donated sperm, have the child and have it take your own surname with no arguments. Why do you have to get married? If you have feelings, can’t you just cohabitate? After marriage, women have to take on a lot of duties, such as supporting her husband, raising her children, and being filial to her parents-in-law. All you get is the title of being Mrs. So and So.
The women who willingly devote themselves to their families, willingly give up and invest themselves into their families, if you find yourselves homeless on the streets later, it too isn’t forced upon you by men, okay? It was your own choice, you can’t blame men.
So, the law has its regulations, and women have their choice.

第三账号:

What’s wrong with China’s women, where even having a child is a bargaining chip in the transaction with men. Truly very sad.

yzsss2010:

Hahaha…the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this is… Truly a national joke…

In my opinion, hard times are upon men. Have children but can’t watch them go uncared for, so go take care of them yourselves. Housework must have someone to do them, so go learn how to do them yourselves. What is even more frightening is that one’s parents have to have someone to take care of them in their old age, so go take care of them yourselves…because it is difficult enough for women to survive in an environment where they have neither guarantees nor sense of security. Freely accommodating you by giving you a child is enough of a contribution, there’s no reason to force her to bear the these other burdens, right?

It looks like a law protecting male citizens, but actually it is pushing us male comrades into the abyss. Truly it is too damaging and sinister…

The age of the national joke is upon us…truly TM something a bunch of pig-brains thought up.
╭︿︿︿╮
{/ o o /}
( (oo) ) Idea!!!!
︶ ︶︶

装死的小强:

If you guys truly love each other, would you really be afraid of the Marriage Law not being fair? Would you still care about what surname the child takes or who contributes more? If your feelings aren’t deep enough, why are you getting married at all? Isn’t that just being irresponsible to yourself?

A home ownership certificate separates a man and woman from marriage.

Man: "The house is something my old mother gave me, there's nothing I can do either..." Woman: "Without my name on the home ownership certificate, whether I should marry you or not is something that is very difficult for me to decide."

From Liba:

With the release of the new Marriage Law, I want to get married even less. On what basis are women supposed to provide children for men??? On what basis? On what basis?!

Right now it isn’t even really about the house. After all, who doesn’t have a house these days anyway? My own family can’t even keep up with all the rent we collect from our house. Still, I’m angry. So women can have children for men and when the men don’t want them anymore, they still have the right to visit them and in fact I can’t even refuse to let them visit, but on what basis [for what reason] is the divorced woman not entitled to splitting up the house? So women are supposed to endure 10 months of hardship, are supposed to be dumped by men, and are supposed to let men find xiaosan?? And in the end when he’s old, has had enough fun with women, and now wants a child, the child I worked hard to raise up has no choice but to acknowledge him [as father], has no choice but to be filial [to him]? I’d have to be insane/stupid! I genuinely don’t want to get married anymore, nor do I want to have children…

Comments from Liba::

oliver1121:

If it is a woman who doesn’t have a house and has been married 10 years and more, then it is indeed too unfair.
Especially if the man is unfaithful and is the party at fault.
Although the woman doesn’t put in any money when buying the house,
she has provided the family with her her youth.
If 10 years later the man has an affair
and like that no longer wants the woman
causing her to lose both her youth and money [lose everything],
that’s really bleak [for her].

saka:

Resign yourselves to it. If a man is good to you, he’ll think of a way to give you security.

nickel2004:

If you don’t want to have a child, then don’t. Making it out as if having a child is only for others~
If it really gets to the point of divorce, just how much security is half a house going to provide anyway?
It’s not like in really rich households, why make such a big deal over small [ordinary] households, this is too much to bear~

lazycat625:

Why is marriage in so many people’s eyes like a transaction, whether they are losing out, whether it is worth it, whether there is security/a guarantee…?
Is the foundation of marriage not the feelings [between two people]? I really don’t understand it…

8888lulu:

I wonder if the person who wrote this law is an idiot.

They obviously did not consider at all that women generally give more of their blood and sweat in a marriage than men, what with there not being any regulations for compensating [the women in the event of divorce].

What is even more deplorable is that there are even some women who support it. CN. There’s nothing for me to say anymore. Everyone remember, it isn’t enough to have your eyes open [clear] before getting married. People change. If we don’t depend on the law and only depend on morality, just how many people are actually that dependable!?

abcd_dcba:

LZ, don’t be so worked up, this just shows that people have to be a little more careful and a little more sensible before getting married in the future. If you really have no confidence [in the other person], then don’t get married and don’t have children. Besides, there are plenty of independent women and DINKs [Double Income No Kids] these days. everyone has their own way of living.

msp:

The marriage laws in other countries all protect the women, where the majority of the assets are given to the women in divorces.

I don’t know what logic China’s marriage law is based on, as it clearly discriminates in favor of men.

Rommel:

There’s no need for so much discussion as it is already law now. All of you women who are worried and resentful of this had better act fast. Those who haven’t yet married or are about to get married better hurry plead and insist on having your name added [to property ownership documents]. Those of you who are already married better quickly think of a way to have the man and his parents’ names removed. Those of you who don’t yet have children better hurry and threaten to not have children, while those of you who have already had children will just have to deal.

小西西大西西:

I don’t get it. If we’re going to be so clear about pre-marriage property and assets, why not also bring [our laws governing] infidelity in marriage or divorce in line with foreign standards by giving us alimony! Are all of men who drew up and enacted this law keeping mistresses?

GiCs–Oasis:

Only when the laws are perfected will people not worry about these things before marriage.
When the laws are not perfect, people will necessarily be forced to protect their own interests before marriage, regardless of whether they are men or women.

What do you think? Do you agree or disagree with China’s marriage law? What would be the ideal way to protect both the man and woman’s interests in a divorce?

There are pages upon pages of Chinese netizen discussion and arguments all over the Chinese internet, for example on Mop and Sina if you want to see more.

People arguing online sitting on a split house.

Help us maintain a vibrant and dynamic discussion section that is accessible and enjoyable to the majority of our readers. Please review our Comment Policy »
  • Chef Rocco

    Oh, shit, a trap set up by real estate developers!

    Prior to wedding, bride and groom would try to kidnap each other so that the free one is able to pay down payment for the house. What a dick law!

  • Just John

    You know, I find this the most interesting comment:
    msp:

    The marriage laws in other countries all protect the women, where the majority of the assets are given to the women in divorces.

    I don’t know what logic China’s marriage law is based on, as it clearly discriminates in favor of men.

    Now, it is obviously wrong, but I notice that this commenter appears to think it is ok for women to be given most assets, but it is not ok for men to be given most assets. Make sense to anyone else that discrimination is only ok if it is biased towards women? (And no, I don’t think it should be biased towards any group. I think both should be get equal equity for things that can be investment level that were purchased AFTER they got married.)

    I also notice it seems more women complaining about it, and while I admit it is unfair, many of the repeated complaints make it “seem” like women expect every man to eventually cheat, divorce them, and leave them broke and penniless on the side of the road. It makes me begin to question what exactly this particular group of female commentators are focused on, and why on earth they would want to get married in the first place if this is the behavior they expect. It also paints more of a picture, if they are getting married expecting this, that they are not getting married for love, but instead are getting married for the house.

    The other common point I saw was women giving birth to give the husband a child. I guess women do not get any benefits from having a child, but only do it so they have the rights to half the equity? I guess they aren’t mothers, but merely wombs to carry children to term for a man?

    Also, as I read this over, I noticed that the law itself is pointing more towards houses that were given to men from their family and houses that men paid at least the down payment on. Now there are arguments for the actual equity in case of a divorce, where the payments that occurred after a marriage took place should be factored in and then that amount of money should result in a split, since the resources should be equally shared by a husband and wife, but to say I must give my wife my parents house if we get divorced, in which the money that came in over the course of the marriage never went into the property, is just plain stupid to me. So, in this case, I support this section of the law, since any of the money that went into purchase had nothing to do with the wife at all.

    All in all, I think this was just something that stirred the pot and created a very interesting view of different people’s “knee jerk reactions” without actually looking at the logic of the arguments.

    This is just my take on the entire situation, so feel free to agree with me, disagree with me, mock me, or whatever.

    • Marsvin

      “The marriage laws in other countries all protect the women, where the majority of the assets are given to the women in divorces.”

      What country are you from? Never heard of this before.

      Child custody, yes the mother is usually favored, but assets? Please elaborate.

      • Just John

        You understand I was directly quoting what was said and then explaining why I did not agree with it, right?

        Now go ask the original Chinese poster why he thought that, since that is not my thoughts.

        • yournametobynow

          Why are Chinese people buying houses in their 20′s anyway? It’s one of the dumber financial decisions you can make in life.

      • red

        I think the Chinese commenters are referring to the alimony and child support payments that are made out to the lower income earner in addition to the 50% of combined assets. Since the lower earner is usually the woman, I guess that guy just lumped the two together.

        JustJohn: Oh, you will be surprised at the number of men and women who will drop the person who they no longer love like a bag of bricks and try every trick in the book to leave them (and the kids sometimes) asset-less. Even in 1st world countries, there are deadbeats. Love is blind plus people will change. Most can’t make enough to support 2 families so they try their best to pay nothing to their first spouse and kids in order to fully support their 2nd family.

        China has a pretty crummy welfare system so I don’t blame the women for speaking about the future of assets openly. A lot of the marriages in China involve the guy being a major breadwinner who chooses a wife based on beauty and ability to take care of the family. This setup is already disadvantageous to the woman. Over time, the guy will increase his self-worth by being more experienced at his job, thus acquiring more status in society and assets. The woman’s self-worth will decrease because beauty will fade with age and the skills (cooking, cleaning, child-rearing, etc.) honed with experience as housewife are not worth much in the eyes of society. This is reflected by how everyone can appreciate the obvious material assets a guy contributes but few stop to think about how much labor the woman contributes being the maid, cook, child rearer, etc.

        If someday, ten or twenty years later, a divorce were to arise, the guy can recoup easily while the woman will struggle. If the Chinese law doesn’t grant a chunk of the assets to the woman, only god will know what will happen to her and the kids because alimony and child support payments are loosely enforced. Plus, there aren’t any real social programs to help them. That’s why the women are speaking so openly about money. To westerners, this might seem like gold-digging but people in China need to think carefully about their survival since life is cheap and it’s dog eat dog there. Guys can also be in this situation but househusbands are much rarer to come across.

        Bearing a child for someone is a great deal in a culture that strongly favors purity and virginity. The chances of a female divorcee with a child remarrying are slim because they’re perceived as used, damaged goods and most don’t want to spend precious money to raise a kid that’s not theirs.

        Your point about only dividing the assets purchased after marriage is well justified but has a loophole that the wealthy in particular can take advantage of. What if one decides to purchase most of the major assets (house, car, appliances) prior to marriage, buy everything in their parents’ names or just live off their parent’s assets?

        I think this law just opened a new can of worms. I agree with the first Chinese poster. With couples in which the male is the main breadwinner and females the main caregiver, it’s been this way since the dawn of time. If guys are going to be petty and calculate things to a T, women can do the same. Perhaps now, they are going to be asked to be paid or compensated explicitly for all the cleaning, cooking, child-rearing, elderly caregiving, sex, etc they’ve done. And the guys can retailate with talking about the stuff they pay for (food, clothes, utilities, etc.). Before you know it, the banter will never-ending and the meaning of marriage is destroyed.

        This law can only work under certain circumstances. Mainly, if the higher income earner is severely wronged or if both parties in the marriage are equally well off and contributed equally in all aspects of the marriage.

      • mark

        Canada,
        Assets BEFORE marriage are normaly kept by the person who PAID for them.
        Assets AFTER marriage are normaly devided equaly, (not all cases)
        You leave the marriage with what you came into the marriage with, or earned together.
        The notion of a man buying the house and car, JUST so she will marry him……… thats strange (opinion) Women who say this, are you marrying for safetly or for love?
        Now i do agree with something one writer says, if divorced, with children, payment each month till she remarrys or for 3-5 years afterwards, is usualy granted from the courts.
        kids always change the outcome in alot of cases.
        The law needs to be fined tuned, made so its fair…..
        good luck

    • Choonage

      Really well said. This was my first reaction too. These types of responses, mostly from women I assume, exposes their real intent in marriage. Right now with typical white collar younger Chinese couples, the household duties are shared, child-rearing responsibilities are shared, the man usually earns more than the woman. So given this, why would women feel they’re entitled to something they didn’t pay for is truly hard to understand. If they want a part of the assets, start contributing to the mortgage, in which case I think most men would allow the wife to add her name to the deed.

      • red

        Household duties and child-rearing responsibilities may be shared but are they shared equally? If not, isn’t the situation the same but the gap smaller? What money the lower income earner can’t earn is made up by doing more of household duties. What care the higher income earner can’t provide due to time constraints is made up by earning more money.

        The splitting of the house is insurance for lower income earners, especially those whose only merit is beauty, since most fear being dumped for a younger, more beautiful spouse after investing so much labor and timewise. I think if the lawmakers really wanted to guard against gold diggers that marry and dump for assets, they should add restrictions to when someone can receive 50% of the combined assets. Eg., After one child and 15 or 20 years of marriage.

  • DRaY

    HA.. I PAY FOR THE HOUSE AND THE BITCH GETS NOTHING!! I CAN LIVE WITH THAT….. FUCK A BROKE BITCH..COME COME INTO THIS SHIT WITH NOTHING, YOU LEAVE WITH NOTHING … THATS THE PRICE YOU GET FOR LIVING THE GOOD LIFE…..FUCK BITCHES

    WOMEN EDUCATE YOURSELF , AND MAKE THAT PAPER…IF NOT YOU GONNA BE ASSED OUT….. DON’T EXPECT TO BE MY EQUAL IF YOU GOT YOUR HAND OUT!!! `DROP TO YOUR KNEES…..

    • Brett Hunan

      Maybe single is a good option for you anyways.

      • Just John

        Actually, I wish he would change his trolling name.

        Dr. Dre would be so much smoother in his “Fuck you” then this guy is.

    • Pilot

      LAUGH MY BLACK ASS OFF!

  • http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1914680181 Elijah

    Honestly speaking, I can understand how this might be a concern for some, but at the same time it’s really stupid.

    Think about it for a second, if anyone has gotten married or is about to, it’s about being in love and wanting to spend your lives together. Cliche, yes, but true none the less.

    It isn’t a business contract and those who treat it like that are already doomed. It’s the same logic behind a pre-nuptial agreement, you’re planning for an eventual divorce and showing your distrust of your partner.

    Even worse is a demand of a house and car as some kind of payment for a girl’s hand in marriage. My wife loves me, I didn’t have to trade her something for it other than my heart and soul.

    Don’t even get me started on alimony and divorce proceedings in “Western” countries, they’re a total fucking joke. My dad has to pay for a woman that walked out on him and uses it to smoke drugs…. I wish that was a joke as well.

    Anyways, it’ll be interesting to see how this affects the gold-digging endemic in china… Imagine having to have a personality instead of rich parents or having to fall in love with hi heart rather than his wallet…..

    • rollin wit 9′s

      u mentioned your dad and the women he’s now paying for. Doesn’t a prenup cover stuff like that or just assets?

      • http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1914680181 Elijah

        1) Woman, not women. Singular, not plural. My dad is paying for my mum to leech off welfare and smoke pot and drink everyday, all day. It’s better than the 4 years she was doing chemical drugs, but still stupid.

        2) Pre-nuptial usually cover wealth, property, etc. However, they don’t totally exclude alimony payments, just lessen them.

        3) No one can foresee someone having a mental breakdown, slipping into drug use and walking out one day while you’re at work after 24 years of marriage, it’s just somewhat random and insane.

        Oh well, he’s remarried and seemingly moved on, she isn’t and it’s been almost a decade. Easy to see who fucked up.

    • 2-cents

      My uncle is paying 4k a month to a woman who fucked his best friend. She doesnt like the kids, but only wants them so he has to continue paying child support.
      Gotta agree with you. The system is fucked

      • Anon

        He should make a case with the details and even demand compensation from the woman or even the state. Ask him to make an effort, and perhaps set a legal precedent. China is applying spirit of the law and would be pleased to have examples of abuse that could be avoided. The judiciary’s experienmce would grow and we’d get the legal fraternity engaging the public and also thinking, rather than merely dispensing justice while some are even on the take.

    • Anon

      The pre-nup should always be present but instead be handled by BOTH in-laws on either side (the side with no parents – deceased or orphan etc. types could use a Village Headman or Mayor equivalent as a surrogate parent’s capacity for purposes of preparing the prenup) later inspection and assent and signing of the children. That way the couple can blame the parents if the contract is unfair and not get angry at each other.

      • http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1914680181 Elijah

        I’m not from some backwater little countryside village where dowries and sundries include things like 2 goats and a fatted calf…….

        My father is in Toronto and my mother is in Ottawa. Anyone who knows their geography can tell where I from now and where my parents are from…..

        Laws there are a bit different than china.

        Cheers.

    • the peasant

      But dont you get it? this new law was made to curb the same thing you think is stupid.

      if you live in china for a good year or 2 you HAVE to know that people are insane here about houses… this new law is to curb the housing market as well as educate women into marrying a guy for the right reasons.

    • Tengu

      Sorry about your father..

      Cliche maybe, but true nonetheless. Marriage is a relationship and this turned it into a business contract, additionally I find it odd the government is involved in any way.

      US has a ballpark 50% divorce rate , how would our attorneys eat, if not for our infidelities.

      I agree, alimony, child support and visitation rights are all wildly disparate in how they are handled in western countries, in the US it’s a fee for all and is ruled state by state.

      I find it equally strange that home ownership is such a make or break deal in a relationship headed towards marriage. Homes come and go, you lose a house, you can always find another, it’s just property. I lost two homes in a divorce a long time ago, since then owned three more. Maybe we have a different attitude in the US.

      In the US if you have a house that’s worth $400K and it’s totally in the man’s families name (not sure why anyone would do that) or a trust his family created it doesn’t matter. It’s only $400K. If both are on the title, they divide it, $200K.

      She can easily make up for that loss in other ways. If he owns a business, she can get a percentage of that. 33 1/3% of Total Pre-Tax income can go to the woman for Child support.

      I have a friend who, in the course of her divorce, gave her husband the house, worth about $800K.

      She gets $100K a year in alimony, also child support while the kids are in college (no age limit), 1/3 of a business he started with a partner: now she is an owner of the business, so she gets healthcare, company car and car insurance; since her husband bought the land they built the business on while they were married…she owns 1/2 of that. She now receives 50% of the lease revenue for the property and will receive 1/2 of the proceeds in the event of a sale. He was also required to pay full tuition for two boys. One at Northwestern, one at Brown University. Those tuitions combined are $100K a year.

      She gave up her career to be a housewife and a mother.

      In the short term she gave up a house….in the long term, she won the war.

      He cheated on her and her former profession – attorney!

    • Rhys

      “Think about it for a second, if anyone has gotten married or is about to, it’s about being in love and wanting to spend your lives together. Cliche, yes, but true none the less.”

      Actually for most of history, marriage had nothing to do with love. That is a relatively recent concept and much more prevalent in western countries than elsewhere. In many parts of the world, getting married for love is still considered a strange thing and unreliable course of action, since love is considered highly undependable. (And when you look at divorce stats in many western countries, they have a point, too.)

      Getting married for love is a cliche of pop culture, romantic movies, and love songs. In reality, it has very little truth in it for much of the world’s population.

  • Johnny Basic

    I pity Chinese women.

    The idea of being a young woman under pressure to find a husband in China is just dismal. Pathetic physiques, poor personal hygiene, reliant on their parents, immature, shifty, lacking in charisma, uncreative, dull hobbies or none at all…the majority of Chinese men I know fall into at least several of these categories. The least anyone willing to put up with them til death do part deserves is some financial security.

    • Johnny Basic

      The younger men, that is.

      When they get older, they inevitably turn into this:
      benross.net/wordpress/chinese-know-it-alls/2007/02/28/

      • interested

        Chinese men do have higher IQ than you most likely. It is certainly frustrating when you are the dumb one.

        • baijiansi

          Yeah that’s why everything in the last 200 years was invented in China right?

          • Ray

            WOOAHHH SAY WHAT? Where was I the last 200 years?

    • nn

      I have to adimt you are telling most of the truth. To be a Chinese, I want to believe my people, and I think maybe in the future the situation will change.

    • Stu

      Hahaha… I wonder if the Chinese men you know know that you’re such a judgmental jerk?

      • Tengu

        “The idea of being a young woman under pressure to find a husband in China…”

        I was with him through statement, but in subsequent sentences, your very astute and accurate assessment kicked in.

        Of course they know, doesn’t seem like he’s doing a good job of hiding it.

      • http://candosino.wordpress.com terroir

        Don’t think of it as a superiority complex; think of it like a bunker, buried deep underground beneath strata of insecurity and fear.

        You get your own Pipboy, I hear.

        • Johnny Basic

          Oh come on now. A lot of Chinese guys might be know-it-alls, but the bunker metaphor’s going a bit too far!

        • http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1914680181 Elijah

          Would that make the chinese Aunties or gold-digging princess the Deathclaws?

          Government officials can be the rad-cockroaches……

      • Johnny Basic

        Not quite as judgmental as the numerous Chinese women I have heard making judgments of the same kind, but in much stronger terms.

        Interesting…take a look at who the only person to have made a constructive reply is.

        • Chad

          They just wanted your money. :)

      • Johnny Basic

        I suspect that if what I wrote had no grain of truth, you might actually meet foreigners in China who have local male friends. I mean, real friends, not just people to play basketball with, or to drink and roll dice with.

        Invariably they never, ever do, beyond the most superficial of levels.

        • Stu

          Question: how many foreign women in China do you think have local ‘real’ female friends? You know, not just people to go shopping with, or have meals with, or, uh, go.. dancing with? (I’m actually drawing a blank here)

          I think it’s a similar situation to men. And yes, real friendships with locals do exist, but they probably are quite rare. But you know what’s a better, and infinitely less arrogant, explanation for this rarity? Cultural difference. Fundamental cultural barriers that require a real effort on either side, or both, to overcome.

          I think that explanation works better than ‘half of the Chinese population are terrible human beings’. It also fits with my experiences, so there’s that too.

          • Johnny Basic

            To be clear, the ‘judgmental’ observations I made in my original post are simply the characteristics I’ve encountered again, again, and again. Of course, my opinions are subjective. Maybe where I perceive a general lack of charisma and creativity on the part of the male population, fostered by the dead hand of a stagnant, repressive and corrupt civil society, you see great guys who make awesome mates. I sincerely doubt it though.

            I reckon most foreigners in China who don’t take an eggshell-treading avoid-judgments-at-all-costs approach would be inclined to agree with my assessment of Chinese guys. It’s not particularly ideal for me to be surrounded by guys who are very often, in my experience, bland, shifty and immature, but that is simply how I’ve found it to be.

          • Stu

            Replying here as I can’t seem to do it to your post… if that’s what you see then that’s what you see, I guess. I’ve known plenty of guys with charisma- as well as those guys in high positions who have an excess of it. ‘Creativity’ is harder to judge, and it’s not something I’d be judging anyway- I mean, I’m not going to not be friends with someone because they’re not ‘creative’… partly because that doesn’t really seem to mean anything.

            Immaturity and (as you said before) relying on parents, though, is more or less demonstrably wrong. Consider that the majority of Chinese people (and certainly the large majority of Chinese people’s parents) come from the countryside where they own exactly one shitty house and a few mu of land (which can be taken at time). I’d say a lot fewer than half of all Chinese guys even have the option of relying on their parents for very long. And I think that’s pretty clear when you see them graduate from school or university and immediately work their asses off to get the best-paying job they can, so they can support themselves and, later, their parents. If anything that’s too mature, since it severely cramps their opportunities to have fun.

            Finally, I suspect that what you see as ‘blandness’- and this goes for both guys and girls- is a lack of shared cultural ground. When I see a group of Chinese people in a restaurant, drinking and chatting, I certainly don’t think ‘Oh, those guys sure are boring the tits off each other.’

    • Quinon

      Clever troll, or worthless scrub? Hard to tell.

    • Joe

      I pity western women.

      The idea of being a young woman under pressure to find a husband in the west is just dismal. Obese bodies, narcissistic, arrogant, delusional, combative… the majority of western men I know fall into at least several of these categories.

      I’ve had multiple white people tell me that they were “the best” at something lol as fucking if. After living with white people I realize that they really aren’t that impressive. They just like to delude and oversell themselves more than others.

      • Johnny Basic

        Yes, I bet it’s tough for women in the mythical United States of White People.

        However, I’m afraid that the land of the Laowai which, in the mind of the PRC’s citizens, encompasses everyone from Icelanders to Afrikaaners, and extends from Murmansk to Melbourne, with a single homogeneous Caucasian culture, exists only in your imagination.

      • Alikese

        I bet you have a lot of friends:

        White Friend: “You should come by my house for dinner one night, I make the best lasagna.”

        Joe: “Are you fucking kidding me? The best? Have you been to every single restaurant in Italy? Have you had Mario Batali’s lasagna? No, so how in the fuck can you say for sure that you make the best lasagna? Goddamn white people.”

        • Choonage

          You’re clearly the best at missing the point.

      • Tengu

        I’ve had people of all races tell me they were the “best” at something at some point in time.

        Simply proves being a dipshit is one thing which crosses cultural boundaries with relative ease.

        Unfortunately we white guys really CAN’T jump!

    • Fried fish is good

      @johnny basic

      You want to see dirty, shifty, dull people, with pathetic physiques?

      Four words of advice for you nitwit:

      Watch Jerry Springer reruns.

      Unfortunately, none of the guests are Chinese men.

  • nn

    My feeling is that Chinese men shouldn’t be too happy so soon. They should realize that when they expect women to be financilly independent, then it means that women need to be more independent from their inside. It is a problem indeed for men because Chinese men love cute sweet doll girls. Chinese women are kind of traditional not like western women, Chinese women rely on their husband a lot, but it could be changed after the new law. I think this new law will have a long term influence, and China will be more women power.

  • rollin wit 9′s

    [["...from preferring “wealthy second generation” [children of wealthy parents] to preferring mutually compatible “people with future potential”]]

    that made the most sense in the entire article and its those words that make me think chinese ‘might’ make progress as a people. The down payment rule is not so stupid but who ever signs their name as owner on that dotted line, you can’t contest that. It’s in their name as we say in the west. I truly believe its those greedy bitches that are upset by this the most. Normal girls who know they have normal lives and dont look forward to riding in ferraris and 3 floor, 6-bedroom apartments will have nothing to fear.

  • Yessir

    It’s a little pathetic that people plan for their divorce so far in advance. Happens in all countries, however in China (more so with the money loving Shanghai locals) it seems much more common. I wonder if Shanghai woman will start considering waidiren for marriage now that they lose their claim to their beloved 50sqm apartment…

    • Meimi

      Well the Shanghai girls mostly already have their apartments, bought by their parents, anyway – so now that there’s no risk of losing them, sure the waidiren might look less risky now. As do the waiguoren.

  • nn

    Continue the last post, I think people shouldn’t blame women too much. We all under great pressure. In US, it takes people 5 to10 years to buy their own house. But it takes Chinese working 30 years to get a small apartment. The situation in China is very different. Plus the traditional culture is part of Chinese philosophy, I don’t think there is something wrong with my culture, to be honest I am proud of my culture. And I think some Chinese should really think about their life meaning. And I don’t want to see a foreigner judge China so quickly.

    • Yessir

      It’s less of a quick judgement and more of a long-term observation. It’s undeniable that wedding traditions and social taboos in China – more so in tier-1 cities – emphasize the requirement for the man to own a car, an apartment, and a high-paying salary before a woman even considers marrying the dude. Cultural forces in China quickly became corrupted after some money started trickling into the ex-farmer generation, particularly for woman who want to shop all day and live the Gucci life. My fingers are crossed for the post-2000s.

  • Jeff

    Chinese or other nationality I would never marry some greedy sour pussed bitch who gives very lame BJs and thinks they are entitiled to my family assets!
    Ptooie!

    I support this law! biatches want equality? well by me a house!

  • eattot

    many women talk about it, men and women fight against on BBS for this.
    after this new law, it will make women be more careful and scared of marriage. or do not wanna get married any more.
    those have not married, either ask for a lot of engagement money, so that she can have first payment for house; or buy house together after got married; even those guys who have house but under his parents name, no way!
    and to those who married already, they have to save egg money all the time to keep safe; do not care for family that much any more, because house work can not get any benifit back; not want to share the housing loan any more, because even she can show her payment bills but the increasing value of house means nothing to her.let alone speand money on family cost.
    people talking about equlity this and that, but should take a look at chinese socity first, how they treat women, if women can really have the same chances as men…
    and because of this law, those men who has house, they can divorce easily, because the cost is quite low now. how about those old women, after 35, then what they should do? treat men as the god at home?……

    • vic2u

      “how about those old women, after 35, then what they should do?”

      These old China women should go west and find an older white men and get married, have lots of kids and live on welfare in his used mobile home.

      They will get the best of both worlds.

    • Rick in China

      Maybe the men get divorced because it becomes clear to them their wife is not interested in a genuine relationship and only concerns with owning and getting more for her “financial safety”, which ironically, leads to her financial instability, because guys HATE bitches who try to snake their way through relationships based on what they can earn like it’s their job. Let me tell you what we call women who have relationships as their career choice: HOOKERS.

      Keep worryin so hard about the demands you must put on the guy before your marriage. Engagement money? House in your name? Good luck with a happy future family.

      • eattot

        do not worry, i am not interested in broke ass as you, let alone foreign broke ass. there is a good way for you by the way, if your still young and strong, then maybe you can sell your skin, if unluckily your black or dark or ugly, hmm, then maybe the only choice is getting stuck in china…
        good luck!

        • Epitope

          Yeah, if you’re ugly, broke and overall a loser, your only choice is to be stuck in China…

          China, the land of ugly broke losers!

          Are you ugly and broke, eattot?

        • Rick in China

          Hit me dead on. Personal insults to people you’ve no idea about – wow, this article as “eattot” in a rage, apparently.

          Keep raging, honey – it’s exactly what men look for in a woman: obvious contempt, ignorant assumptions, and publishing it on the internet. I can see the line-up from here, everyone wants to be the next “HE IS SUCH AN ASSHOLE” post on your emotionally fueled Weibo.

        • Nyancat

          I understand her pain, she obviously has to find a rich sugar daddy now, probably an old dude who will satisfy her pangs for financial security. Eattot please stop posting, your comments get more and more ridiculous and your true colors (racist) come shining through. You must have led quite a sad life if you think only losers come to China, then again with the narrow-mindedness of your posts, I’m going to guess you grew up in the rural areas of China where black people dare not venture. From your much earlier posts in various articles I had the misconception that you were a rational human being, thanks for setting me straight.

          • eattot

            fuck off!
            i am talking about what the law will do to women, not my personal.
            for me, get married or not, already not important.
            you foreign idiots really should should use some your smug brain before you make this type of judgemental bullshit.
            if your not chinese, not women, sure, you can always stick your ass high just put a finger give some fake and noble speach.

          • Just John

            Wow,

            eattot is getting firsthand on you. I do want to let you know though eattot that western countries also do have a history of discrimination shady women, so China is not unique in this.

            Just letting you know so you will understand that we do indeed know about these things in a two way, not just an abstract, judgemental, holier then thou way.

          • Anon

            Couldn’t resist (also was reminded) when I saw your nick. Heres a WH40K related NLP for the North East Asians to be wary of.

            WH40K’s Nan Yanoi (who are quite ‘furry’ and speak with an obviously East Oriental accent), easily morphs into and has letters found in the term Nyan Yaoi. Japanese for ‘Gay Cat’.

            This is the NLP debunk for the day.

          • Nyancat

            Are u high? What makes u an expert on this subject when you don’t even fit the criteria for the woman being affected by the law. Get off your high horse and stick to doing what you do best, making racist, derogatory comments.
            You make it seem like marriage is a gamble or something, that two people can’t genuinely marry for the sole purpose of having a family.
            I agree with Rick in China good luck trying to find a ‘loser’ in China that will give you a bloated bank balance, and all the things you’ve ever dreamed about while he’s chilling at KTV with his mistress, but hey that’s ok with you right!
            Gambateh!

        • http://www.erikheyl.com Erik

          Eatot: really? Racist much? Color of skin means nothing. It is what you do that is important. You strike me as very bitter.

          • Nyancat

            Sigh, tis a sad truth Erik. I’m hoping she sees the light someday.

        • cb4242

          f unluckily your black or dark or ugly, hmm, then maybe the only choice is getting stuck in china…

          Ahhh, so now we’re racist to boot, eh. Too funny, this is why women like you with no class, let me repeat, if you have a problem reading: NO CLASS! China has more CLASSLESS women than any other country and you just proved that. What kind of job or talent do you have, I can probably guess….Do you really think you are all that? If you are such a proud woman, stop hiding behind that fucking mask! I can probably say, without a doubt, you need a guy(s) to keep yBut you can’t and that speaks volumes as to who and what kind of person you are, pathetic.

      • red

        This is a factor but you have to factor in the divorces that result from trading up for a younger, prettier wife. The women agitated by this law are likely not to have any money or distinguishing status. They may have an education but that doesn’t guarantee a good job anymore. Really all they have going into a marriage are looks and youth. Looks will fade so naturally they will replaced with a better girl. In the context of China, eattot’s advice isn’t entirely ridiculous. Women need to save up underhandedly and demand assets upfront for the day they are to be replaced. Because the government and law has made it perfectly clear they aren’t going to protect them if they are left penniless when their husband gets with another girl.

        • Nyancat

          I actually agree with some of her points, but the attitude she suggests women have to acquire going into a marriage would undoubtedly make it harder for them to get married. I am curious though, do you think that with this new law that whoever does actually have the title to the house has the freedom to cheat on their partner? I think this law is bollocks anyway, they should have taken a lot more time and come up with a law that benefits whoever was faithful to their partner in the relationship, I guess courts here are too lazy to take such situations on a case by case basis.
          Eattot should just try being a bit more civil when trying to make an argument rather than spewing hate at everyone, that just nullifies anything she says.

    • sudeson

      May be the japanese army should invade and take all the chinese girls to work in AV industry, I think this will solve any further debate.

      • sudeson

        I have seen eattot’s real face and i don’t want to see it once again. She looked like a chinese bitch working in my hometown. We have lot of yellow bitches like her in my hometown and they really sucks.

        Eattot i am really sorry if you have to sleep with some old white dudes for money and this is what Chinese girls are used too. I think you got my point. I know you are in Shanghai now, If you are not able to find an old white dude why don’t you move to Beijing, Shenzhen or Guangzhou. You have lot of choices there and there are more Old white dudes there for you.

        Chinese girls are just a bunch of fetish bitches, Money grubbers.

        Eattot slut was this rascist enough for you. I really consider chinese girls as mean and lack morale values. The color of your skin proves that, Yellow skin and yellow film

        • cb4242

          @sudeson

          Eattot is just selfish, she thinks that men have to tap dance to a woman’s beat, do whatever she wants, whenever she wants, but if a woman is used by a man, oh my god, he is a cold, ruthless animal. Why does she wear a mask, go figure. Yes, woman like her, I too, know what they are all about and for some reason Chinese women think they are smarter than anyone else, they will use, but at the same time, they get used too. I’ll give you the cash, give me that ass!

        • eattot

          you see your d…k only!
          keeping on dreaming!
          i can tell you i am definitely independtent and my family is not poor at all!
          fuck with yourself!

          • Nyancat

            Seriously is it possible for you to maintain a discussion without the use of such coarse language, it’s very unbecoming. Your situation just goes to prove what I’ve been saying, you shouldn’t be giving your opinion on matters that you have no experience of, there are people that have gone through a divorce and experienced just how bad it can get when a marriage is based more on ‘financial gain’ rather than a deep love and understanding of one another. Just please shut up, I’m saying it for the last time you have no idea what a marriage is if you think the prime goal is money.

          • Just John

            Nyancat, why would you accuse her of course language. The word fuck has a great diversity for use in the English language. It can be used in almost any situation and fit almost any need.

            Don’t believe me? Check this out.

          • cb4242

            Independent in talking “shit?” Perhaps. When we meant poor, we didn’t mean as in “money” we meant as in “class” so in that sense, yes, my dear, you are dirt poor.
            And yes, I CAN see my dick, because it’s huge for a non-Chinese.

          • Nyancat

            @ Just John Oh wow this reminds me of an MP3 that i heard where what i assume was a professor or lecturer in an educational institution was giving this exact same speech to his class, thanks for this sure brings back a lot of good memories ;) Fuck truly is a diverse word!

  • Brett Hunan

    When you think about it logically, there really is no reason to get married. Sure, some people say for love. Others, for tax benefits. That aside, you are living with a roommate who has a lot of expectations for you to live up to— until you or the other dies.

    People say they need someone to spend their time with and to talk to when they are down. Maybe. But not everyone. My parents have been married for 30 years and I can’t recall either of them talking to each other about their troubles. Heck, they don’t even talk that much.

    The passionate love boyfriends and girlfriends and newlyweds have doesn’t last forever. Love changes and evolves through experience. It starts out hot, but then changes to caring and affection. When you have kids, that love changes to responsibility.

    I don’t feel bad for the 20 million or so Chinese men who cant marry a Chinese woman. I praise their freedom. All of their hard-earned money is their own. And they can enjoy their life the way they want to live it.

    Others may argue that it is our duty to have children. Thats even the word the Korean governement is passing along right now (S. Korea’s birthrate is around 1 child per family).

    Children can bring a man, woman, or couple so much joy. Children can make even the worst days seem a little brighter. However, no matter how you argue it, there is truly no reason why we have children other than its in our genes…. instinctual if you will. “Reproduce.” “Make many children.” “Be fruitful and plentiful.” “Carry on the family name”….

    I call bullshit. There is no logical reason why we all must get married and have children. If men and women want to enjoy their youth, let them. If they decide not to get married, great.

    This law maybe is unequal, but who gives a shit. If you don’t want to split a house should you divorce, dont get married to begin with.

    *****Can you tell my wife has been giving me shit all week?

    • http://www.redpict.info/ Red

      it means that you are simply logically moron

    • Tengu

      I second the bullshit call.

      No need to get married if you’re so worried about losing a damn house to begin with….

      She’s “with child” isn’t she…you’re lucky you’re alive, you would have lost a limb by now with some of them. Expect her to be jumping in your shit occasionally for the duration…the end result is worth it.

      • Brett Hunan

        Tengu thanks for the vote of confidence.

        I know its all good. She is a really caring woman, not interested at all in money or a green card. She doesn’t even want to live in America.

        I just made a point, in too many words, that if you are worried, no one is forcing you to get married.

        • Tengu

          Depending on what happens in 2012, I may be sleeping on your sofa!

  • vic2u

    What it is, so if a black cocksucker marries a lookatme China woman and later they get divorced, the wife’s family home goes to the black man and she gets the bastard brats only?

    OK, go west China women.

    • GodsHammer

      Riiight… how about some retarded rice-bred whore takes a hard-working black brother for a ride in order to get a green-card, then as she holds the family assets in China on a business that he built and managed, she engineers a break-up and takes back the wealth. Seen it happen.
      BTW… you are a trolls troll.

      • vic2u

        Suckers are born every minute and dummy men that can’t keep their chopstix in their pants gets the AIDs.

        You comment on my so you are the troll.

        • Jay

          Dance for us, troll!

          Red-faced, blood pressure high,
          scream and shout,
          pour it all out,
          your life is a lie.

          Scream for me, little troll….
          Scream.

          • vic2u

            China women say that white men are so dumb when making long time love, they think they are better than blacks in bed.

            Whiteys love the Suzie Wong thing and China women gets everything for nothing.

            Oh Jay, you little troll whore, I am dancing boss maggot.

          • Tengu

            All Hail VIC2U, the undisputed “Dancing Boss Maggot!”

    • donscarletti

      No, it would return to the wife’s family that paid for it rather than being split between the parties. I know you’re a stupid racist troll, but even those should still read the article sometimes.

      The law protects the party who PAID FOR THE HOUSE, whether that is the man or the woman. Just traditionally in China the man pays for the house.

      • vic2u

        Me “a stupid racist troll,” why?

        Obama’s brother in China is a big landlord, he used his wife’s estate to make himself rich. And many other blacks in China are doing the same thing. You stupid.

        This is about and what’s happening in China, why is it racist?

        To see the big picture and outside the box is trolling, that’s me.

        So there maggot dunscary,

        • GodsHammer

          More fool me then…in a relationship for ‘LOVE’ instead of just slinging my weapon at the highest bidder. LOL. Vic , I am not sure why you are so bitter but it’s not very becoming.

          • Tengu

            But he’s becoming more and more bitter, which s very amusing.

      • Just John

        Actually, unless the house is already completely paid of before a marriage, and if both husband and wife work, then probably it is being paid for by both. I think what pisses women off is if they put equity into the house, but the man made the initial down payment, then the man also gets the womans equity that is put into the house.

        Or maybe they feel that after raising kids, being a house wife, whatever, that they now have no suitable job market skills, or very low level job market skills, so they are at an economic disadvantage.

        For example, what happens if a woman marries a man, and instead of pursuing a career, the couple decides she should stay home and take care of the kids, parents, etc. So instead of getting education or training, she instead devotes her time to the family. Or instead of further her own career, she instead stops her career.

        Now image 25 years later, the man cheats with another woman, and decides to divorce his wife. Now if he made the down payment, he gets the house. Even if she was working, because he made the down payment, he still gets the house and she looses her equity.

        Now what if we complicate the matter and the woman did not complete education because they agreed that she would instead be a “housewife” to take care of the family. What real world, marketable skills does she have? What is she quit her job to become a housewife? She has not advanced her career, so even if she could get a job in the same industry, she will start out at the level she would have had 25 years ago, instead of the level she would be at if she worked at that career over the entire 25 year range. Either way, it puts her at an economic disadvantage.

        So, you could have a woman who does not have the proper means to support herself as she should be able to based on past decisions, or even a woman who does have a financial claim to the house but because of badly worded laws, will have no rights to the house or her own financial interest in the house.

  • http://candosino.wordpress.com terroir

    Harmony: from now on, all babies will be won’t be conceived in utero but in a test tube (thus abolishing the need for sex-ed classes), and all children born will be male due to a prior sex-screening process. To compensate, gay marriage will be legalized, and since each marriage will have two “REAL” breadwinners, there will be two of each commodity (two houses, two cars, etc), thus both ensuring an even divorce (should gay marriage ever suffer one) and also provide a boon to the Chinese economy.

    Harmony: we don’t need no Yoko Ono to break it up. And let it be emphasized: Yoko Ono is Japanese.

    • hahaha

      psst..psst…the law is actually made by ministers , as far as I know most of them have lots of er-nai / mistress, so this law is actually cater for thmselves to protect them from the er-nai….

      • http://candosino.wordpress.com terroir

        Not to be all “pro-beef”, but this way you can have your 二奶 and smoke your 老二 at the same time.

    • staylost

      Yeah, she just looked Chinese.

    • Tengu

      And your wardrobe suddenly doubles if you’re both the same size.

      Winning!!!!!!

      Yoko…brilliant business woman..not so god for the Beatles..

  • http://www.qq.com/1325279774 Kedafu

    Song of the Article

    Our House …..you know in the middle of the street…..
    -Madness

    just want to say,
    I love you!
    please let me back in…..

    -50c

    • King Tubby

      Comrade K. So good looking. My sisters, hotties with no morals whatsoever, would like to meet you.

      Our House – CSN

      Cheers Bro

  • Che Guevara

    sweet now i can buy that ferrari with her money ,sike

    • bunny99

      what if the husband and the wife both transfer, from their separate bank accounts, exactly half of the deposit each when they buy a house?

      Who gets the house then if they separate?

      • Rick in China

        They specified in the article which cases who gets what. If they bought it together, it is still split – it’s only in cases where the guy’s family buys their house for them, or he puts down the whole down payment, that he can get the house after the divorce. If he puts the house in her name, but pays the full down payment, it’s still hers.

        Likewise, if the woman’s family buys their house or the woman puts the full down payment, she gets the house in the divorce. The complaints are from bitches who contributed nothing and get nothing, but expect everything.

        • GodsHammer

          Pretty much sums it up Rick. I swear people need comprehension lessons. I think this rule is much more fair than the current ‘female is always right’ model North America seems to have adopted.

  • Irvin

    Simple solution: don’t get marry.

    If you going into something to expect it to fail then why bother at all?

    • johnnygate

      you don’t buy insurance for anything?

  • WerkinTianjin

    My wife is Chinese and owned our house and her parents house before I even met her. I don’t see why more Chinese women can’t aspire to buy their own house. My wife is not rich but did work very hard, made good money and was wise with her investments having bought and sold 2 houses at a profit before owning the 2 we have now outright. If we divorced I don’t think I’m entitled to either of the houses we have.

  • gungun

    soo.. wtf happened with good ol`fashioned LOVE? :/

    • Tengu

      Evidently love is still available, but now its worth is calculated on a sliding scale.

  • Anon

    Article : After giving birth, if the man cheats on her, wouldn’t she end up sleeping in the streets with her child!”

    She won’t as she can go back to work, give the child up to state adoption, the child when it grows up will be informed which 2 people made them into an orphan. What was wasted was time and youth, this should be about the child not the parents.

    Liba : With the release of the new Marriage Law, I want to get married even less. On what basis are women supposed to provide children for men??? On what basis? On what basis?!

    On the basis of LOVE and TRUST and HARDWORK by BOTH especially if poor. Otherwise just LOVE and TRUST, something lower and middle classes lack and upper classes can avoid behind their wealth.

    Unless intentionally to STEAL wealth of the spouse via state or legal apparatus, sometimes marriages fail and reputations suffer of both. Ultimately again, this should be about the child not the parents. (Liba sounds hysterical and scary here. Do you think life is only about money?)

    As for compensation for housework or care of children, look at the industry standard and compensate 50% of that value to women per month. The other 50% should be done out of love for the child even if they hate their ex-husband.

    Option for wealthy divorcees, if the woman wants to show her love for the child she’d claim he entire workload as housewife always was for the child (we have seen many women who LOST husbnds in accidents or war who raised a child all by themselves without complainiung) and refuse to take even the 50% ‘housekeeper’ money, cancelling any corruption such materialism brings.

    Property re-distribution should be calculated from the point of marriage, not including properties before. And the wealth level of the woman and her family prior to marriage could also be factored into compensation alongside the REAL earnings of the husband – obviously a blue collar husband can only afford blue collar compensation, he too needs to live a life AFTER divorce) . . .

    • Dave

      As for compensation for housework or care of children, look at the industry standard and compensate 50% of that value to women per month. The other 50% should be done out of love for the child even if they hate their ex-husband.

      This.

      If all the woman does is cook, clean, and change diapers, then she’s just an ayi. She should be compensated accordingly. 20 kwai an hour seems fair.

      • Anon

        It’s not fair. Ayi work should be compensated ZERO as the effort considered as punishment for bringing life into the world without love. Only the house keeping work applies. The other is done in manner of ‘discharge of debt’ to the child bringing said child into the world without consideration for it’s well being. We are humans not animals, so ‘ayi’ fees cannot be levied against the husband. It was done for the child not for the husband.

      • Anon

        Disregard the earlier post, heres a more carefully written one. (Fauna pls remove and add the below one instead.)

        20 kwai or any sum at all is not fair. Why? Ayi work by the mother herself to her own child should not be compensated anything and amounts to *ZERO* as the effort should be considered (as she herself is the mother and NOT a mere ‘ayi’) out of love . . . if not punishment for bringing life into the world without love.

        Only the house keeping work applies for compensation as general cleanliness is not the critical factor in child raising (CCTV had an article titled ‘Child REARING’ or some such, btw (it’s RAISING, not REARING, one raises the dead and children, but only animals are reared, just thought to point out).

        The other is done in manner of ‘discharge of debt’ to the child bringing said child into the world without consideration for it’s well being. We are humans not animals, so ‘ayi’ fees cannot be levied against the husband by the mother herself. It was done for the child not for the husband.

        This is a moral obligation of a mother to her child and cannot be compensated, much less by the husband who’s duty of course as bread winner to make sure there is enough money to use and already been discharged.

    • Anon

      . . . as ‘housewife’ always . . . should read as ‘houseWORK’

      • cc

        Your theory only applies to a perfect society where women and men are already totally equal. If woman has equal opportunity to be the breadwinner as man, I believe few women would choose to stay at home. Trust me, you wouldn’t want to trade life with housewives and hang out with kids 24 hours doing housework at the same time no matter what compensation. Those who think a housewife’s work is only worth aiyi fee are those who have never been throught the nightmares of finding the right aiyi.

  • mp

    The problem began with a general change in the concept of marriage. It is now defined (and mostly viewed) as an artifact of positive law. That is, a civil, liberal-economic contract divorced (no pun) from its hitherto traditional ground, and one also removed from its natural or classical end (family and progeny). Because of this economization of what had been heretofore a traditionally social-religious-cultural institution, can anyone expect otherwise? Expect things to become even uglier, not far down the road.

    But perhaps not a bad deal if one is in the market for a relatively low mileage and still serviceable model; one they could probably not afford new. Many also come with instant family.

  • McCurry

    Funny how it says protect ‘Men’s Asset’, where it actually protects both parties. I wouldn’t mind staying home and taking care of the baby and my wife goes out and work her ass off to pay for everything

  • Chinese Values

    The interpretation are default rules that apply when there is no marriage agreement in place.

    If you want to make your marriage a financial arrangement, then contract around the default rules.

    Women who want to marry for money should find a good lawyer instead of complaining about things they know nothing about.

  • http://www.foarp.blogspot.com FOARP

    Man, do you know how this works in English law?

    Okay, man A tells girlfriend B that they don’t need to get married because she is his “common law wife” (no such thing under English law, but lot’s of people believe there is). Girlfriend B, being stupid, believes this and they live together and raise a family in a property which they buy together but is under the man’s name. Man get’s tired of his baby-mama and wants to have her thrown out – he can do so any time because he’s got the title, right?

    Wrong. English law, as well as the law of all other commonwealth countries and most US states, includes a concept known as equity. Basically, it means you can’t just do things which are incredibly unfair just because the letter of the law says you can. Instead, if it becomes a court matter, her input into the upkeep of the house, improvements, mortgage payments, fairness to the kids etc. etc. etc. all come into play.

    This is even more the case if they are married – it’s not who’s name is on the deeds (and come on people, what’s wrong with joint ownership?) but the form of their life together. If Chinese law really allows the husband to straight-up divorce and then throw his wife out with no duty to support her or their children, then it’s messed up. I’m not sure if this actually the case though – at least not judging by the prominent cases involving foreigners over the past few years.

    That said, the people you see quoted in the OP asking what the point of getting married or having children is if they don’t get title to the property seriously need to take a look at themselves.

    • Tengu

      Huzzah, huzzah, huzzah….well done.

  • k

    This is why i went to college and became a professional woman… I have a secure nice paying job,a house,my own car and why my marriage is just great..I dont rely on him and we are equally successful and educated and it makes our marriage more secure and a partnership that we both contribute equally to.

    • eattot

      if your chinese, then i only can say your very narrow and only like to show off in a stupid way!
      it’s law, it’s not only about you, not only for lucky women who can get good education, not only for lucky girls from rich family…
      how about those unlucky women? law should not just protect rich class, how about one day it comes to your turn?you never know!

      • McCurry

        correct me if I am wrong, but the poor/rich, women/men got equal chance of getting educated in China (one of the few things China actually gets right). Most women I know are working and are just as successful as men. So if you want your an equal relationship of mutual respect, then stop being so dependent on Male just because of your gender.

        Looks like you’re the one that doesn’t know your own people

      • Rick in China

        Your posts only make everyone presume you’re a poor, uneducated, unskilled woman who *needs* to find a wealthy guy to take care of you. Are you so angry because you had planned on finding a man, marrying, and ensuring you’re welcome to half of his possessions after getting tired of seeing messages from massage girls inviting him to come by for ‘treatment’?

        The change in law protects those who have more from being ‘taken’ by women – OR MEN – who marry under false pretenses simply to secure themselves financially. The people who are angry about this are the people who expected to personally gain from the outcome of this sort of situation. If you’re a self-confident and capable woman, and if you marry with intent of truly making a relationship work — and work to make it work — this doesn’t affect you at all. Get over it eattot, you’re more transparent than the double bagged trojan I hope every drunk guy who is lured into your bedroom should most definitely strap on.

        • the peasant

          i totally agree! its so stupid that both men and women are fired up by this law.

      • 吴兰

        Eattot, stop thinking with your ass and start – at least – trying to use your head instead.

      • Johnny Gat

        Wait… so if a poor woman marries a rich man, she’s entitled to half his assets ? interesting.

        • eattot

          this site full of smug noble people. that’s what i only can see.
          and what they like to do is, line up together, laugh at china!
          because that’s what the reason they come this site.
          listen, i am not the only woman who get unhappy at this law. there must be a reason.
          once they can not proof your wrong, then what the fuck you can do is, do personal attack. bunch of mfs!

          • Tengu

            Don’t yell at me, Don’t hit me!!!!!!

            But many non-Chinese are here because they have either been to China, live in China, lived in China or are interested in Chinese politics and viewpoints for one of the aforementioned reasons.

            I agree there are some who come to “badger”, but there are also many Chinese who use racial epithets and are just as rude. The door swings both ways, you must agree with that.

            I’m an “Amerikunt who should be lined up and shot.”

          • eattot

            in fact, some diggers they really use marriage to take house away from men or women.
            if they can add some time limit on this law then it’s good.
            as like after 10 yrs marriage, women can share half or whatever.
            then it’s perfect way to kick diggers out!

          • Jay K.

            eattot;

            so full of anger, frustration, and so passionate in your choice of wording. you know what you need to let the stresses of lfie go away you need some smooth lovin from me. come over here baby let me put it in your butt and caresss your body the way it supposed to be with my gifted hands and magical tongue.

            we can drink a bottle of Courvoisier Cognac do some slow dancin then lay the pipe on you..yeah sexy..

            but before that i need you to sign those pren up papers yeah, the ladies man

          • Tengu

            You know we all badger “eattot” and rightfully so.
            BUT
            In some ways you have to admire her, she says what she thinks (forget the content for one minute), she never apologizes and never backs down, no matter how hard and fast the barrage comes at her.

            While I may have to gag her to keep her quiet, I’d probably want someone with her balls backing me up if I ever had to “go away” again.

            She’d shoot first, not ask any questions, keep going and stay behind you. Sometimes those are good qualities to have.

            I”M JUST SAYIN’

      • cb4242

        How can you not know your own basic laws? I am totally astounded!

  • http://laowaiink.weebly.com Mark

    House, house, house. Is that all that’s on people’s minds in China? That and the inevitable breakup of their business-marriage?

    • nn

      some people really need to think about housing problem. it takes a person working more than over 30 years to own an apartment. we have dreams too, traveling, have a good relationship, and have a career that we love. But do you know how hard to live like that in China?

      • Just John

        By George, I think your right.

        You have just puzzled out the meaning of life.

        When you cannot get what you want through hard work, effort, self discipline, you should resort to marrying someone else who has it, then divorcing them so you can take it away from them.

        Thank you for clearing that up.

        • Just John

          Sorry, I left out.

          In China, it is important that marriages are based on sound finances, and not on love. After all, why would anyone want them warm and fuzzy feeling that comes with being one who you love, and returns that feeling, when you could have your very own house, no matter how warn and fuzzy you do not feel.

          Your sage advice has profoundly changed my life. I think I shall venture forth to my wife, whom I deeply love, and tell her I do not think we are right for each other because she does not have deep pockets which I can call upon to live a nice, rich and meaningless life.

      • http://laowaiink.weebly.com Mark

        I live in China, and my wife and I have bought a house here. Our situation is different than most Chinese people, since my salary is higher than the average Chinese worker’s and my wife and I already had some money saved so we were able to purchase our home less than a year after we were married. And I know that daily life in China is a grind and the dream of one day owning one’s own home is very important, and for many, out of reach without saving for decades.

        I’m just irritated about hearing “house” and “marriage” in the same sentence all the time. Everyone needs a place to live, and most people want to get married someday, but do the two have to always be chained together in peoples’ minds?

        Of course it’s easy for me to judge, sitting on my foreigner’s high horse. Still, it would be nice to hear Chinese people thinking in ways that weren’t so often connected to basic survival.

  • the peasant

    i dont really get it why people are so fired up on this.. its funny that all the women in the said posts worry about men cheating on them. umm if you already knew or anticipate the guy will be cheating on your lovely ass.. why the fck would you marry the guy?

    see this is exactly the thing that this law curbs.. if a woman already has a gut feeling about his rich boyfriend that he jerk is gonna cheat on her then this law will FORCEFULLY make her reconsider marrying the dumb ass jerk.

    without this law before, the girl wouldve still married the sorry ass guy simply because he is rich.. seriously its so messed up that some women will still consider pulling the trigger of marriage even though they already feel it in their gut that the guy is bound to cheat on them.

    dare i say that this new law protects women from stupidity? and unwanted pain and suffering?

    • nn

      I agree with you to some extent. But in China, the society can change a man quickly. A college boyfriend can be very loyal to his girlfriend, but who can say what will happen after 10 years marriage? In China, women still have relative low social status, and in most of cases, property is a strong backup for women.

  • john digmeme

    I think some of the posting women’s arguments are pretty baseless.

    Not wanting to have children because they don’t have their name on the house… I guess love and trust don’t exist over there.

  • sam

    the only logical reasons i could think of, from perspective of those who oppose this (particularly women) is a sense of insecurity. And that wouldn’t have to happened if the women is as equal as the men in her financial ability.

    • Rick in China

      It has nothing to do with financial ability, either. It has to do with pre-marriage financial situation.

      This information does not change how the law determines assets and monetary split in a divorce when it comes to considering everything earned *during the marriage*. It only affects what was bought or given (parents->kids) before the marriage took place.

      That’s the beauty of it. That’s why people who complain about it are basically throwing themselves under the bus as being gold diggers. It’s saying if you buy a house, get married, then get divorced, half of what you (man OR woman) bought doesn’t go to the other party.

  • Danny

    Marriage is sham. I feel sorry for the idiots who spend <100k for their weddings.

  • Dave

    What the man buys, the man owns. What the woman buys, the woman owns. If they marry, it is between them how, they want to share what they have.

    Simple enough.

    Any woman that demands some kind of compensation for marriage is more or less a prostitute… What, 200 kwai will buy a night, but a house will buy a lifetime?

    • Johnny Gat

      couldn’t agree more. I don’t think in a divorce anybody should be forced to lose anything. You get what you bought. If you bought the house 50/50 then you split the house 50/50. If you want the kids then you’re responsible for paying for them. I always like how some women bring up the fact they “sacrificed their career” or some bullshit like you. You willingly did that to get married. No one sticked a gun to your head and said you had to gave up your career. You took the risk for the reward. When the reward isn’t what you expect, how can you demand repayment? I buy a stock and the company goes way down, can I demand they compensate me? The man also sacrificed a lot to provide for you so you can sit at home all day and spend money on you.

      I don’t think government should be involved in marriage to start with.

  • Joe

    It’s a law to eliminate gold digging. I approve.

    • nn

      who knows, if a women is a real gold digger, she can always get money anyhow.

      • Just John

        Yes, it’s called prostitution.

  • Cleo

    That’s good for getting rid of the Cinderella fantasy and encouraging the Martha Stewart fantasy.

  • 吴兰

    There are a few valuable conclusions to be drawn from the situation and, funnily enough, they form a very nice logical chain of thought: 1) if you need to pass a controversial law, forget the public debate, be like Nike and JUST DO IT so that the dissatisfied simply have to make their peace with it 2) most people are too short-sighted anyways to look beyond the obvious way in which your decision will affect them personally and are unable to grasp the bigger, more important picture 3) the short-sighted being the dissatisfied gold-diggers in this case, you’re shooting two birds with one stone: eliminating “the leftover” bitches from the ongoing competition, thus promoting slow but inevitable and positive social changes aiming at bringing your country closer to what equality is all about. And at last but not least: 4) you ever considered getting more serious with your Chinese girlfriend but due to the cultural realities of the Middle Kingdom you live in were over-cautious and unsure of her REAL intentions? (see: Wendy The Master Gold-Digging Whore Murdoch?) – NOW IS THE TIME TO DO IT !!!
    Technocrats of Beijing – I thank you. The Chinese will too but in 50 years time.

    • Hongjian

      I agree.
      This law actually makes lot of sense.

      It’s not that the woman was ever the “weaker party” in comtemporary China, or even in the future if the demographics are to stay/continue as now. So, even if they are in some way at a ‘disadvantage’, they still wont feel any more pressure to accumulate ‘independent’ wealth than before, simply to to gender-imbalance.

      Gold digging, in a scale that is unique to China that appears to be a phenomenon born through the general macro-economic realities in the country, isnt just a small issue, it’s an issue that is causing severe societal disturbances and economic problems.
      The technocracy in Beijing indeed attempted to solve this problem in a well thought and judicary sound fashion this time.

      I stand with the chinese men and the honourable and faithful female minority in this case.

      In fact, this law was overdue. This Wendy-syndrome was already eating away China’s social fabric from within for far too long. I fear that this wound will heal very slowly, if ever, and the trust between men and women will still remain damaged for decades to go.

      • http://www.qq.com/1325279774 Kedafu

        Very Good Comrade!

        I like what your wrote, clean, cut, professional, on the ball

        work it brother!

        • Just John

          Kedafu,

          What we are worried about is the thought that Hongjian has been replaced by a pod person, because his rants no longer seem to overgeneralize and attempt to paint the west as the evil influence that is ruining China.

          Plus we also have not heard the normal Hongjian catchphrase for a few day: All Americans should be lined up and shot.

          Could this be the first warning sign of an imminent takeover of earth by rational, identity stealing aliens?

          • Tengu

            “Pod Person” – from the Kevin McCarthy or Donald Sutherland version?

            Wasn’t it…”All Amerikunts should be lined up and shot!”

            We’re missing a few other brothers out here. I got “moderated”, I guess we ran amok on the Thai Commercial.

            “Jones” seems to be missing as well as “sofa” (superseded) and “What a dick” comments…coincidence, I think not!

          • Just John

            Yes, I noticed my “What a dick!” sofa on this particular article is missing. Chief Rocco actually commented on that, and then made the second comment, which now seems to be my missing “dick shaped sofa”…

          • Tengu

            And I thought the “sofa shape” remark was quite amusing. I noticed it was “disappeared” early on, maybe we’re all wearing an ankle bracelets and under house arrest.

      • anon

        I think the woman is the weaker party in contemporary China and will remain so in many (but not necessarily all) situations so long as the people in positions of power and control remain predominantly men who may discriminate in favor of men. I know you’re talking about supply and demand dynamics but I think there are still so many obvious cases where women are clearly disadvantaged and have been shafted (you know what I mean).

        I do agree that this law may go far in curbing the “gold-digging” (or “short-cut to financial security”) phenomenon, particularly for the women who have the natural assets to exploit to do pursue this route, mainly by eliminating some ease with which large sums of wealth can be instantly or quickly transferred between people. The harder you make it for people to suddenly gain or lose large amounts of wealth, the less motivation there is for people to consider and pursue such opportunities. In this case, the marriage law is seemingly removing that possibility in certain circumstances, by saying a woman can’t automatically gain the value of a downpayment or the value of the house a man’s parents may provide simply through marriage alone (or vice versa of course).

        I haven’t read up on the actual Chinese laws though so I’m not sure if I’m jumping to the wrong conclusions. I was under the impression that pre-marriage assets were already protected from becoming community property in China. I wonder if these interpretations are to protect the (typically) man’s side in particular instances where the downpayment to the house or even the entire house was paid entirely by the man or his parents but the woman’s name has then been added to the deed, and now a divorce is occurring where the woman wants to make a claim on that value.

        In situations where only a downpayment was paid by the man and the woman arguably contributed to later mortgage payments so at least a part of the house was “acquired” through both partners’ efforts during marriage, I wonder how the courts will rule with this new interpretation in mind.

        • 吴兰

          Agreed, brother. This law will not get rid of discrimination but it will promote some kind of “normality” – where women (or men, for that matter) don’t do gold-digging (at least not on such a scale as they do now) and therefore actually expect relationships based on, well, a relationship, which at some level and to some extent might curb the unique phenomenon of xiao sans and the like as there will be no reason to tolerate them. Discrimination exists everywhere, towards both genders, in different shapes and forms and to a different degree but at this point in time in China I find it to be somehow secondary to another problem: secondary to the fact that many Chinese women treat their “weakness” and the fact they are naturally “discriminated against” as a weapon and a great excuse to do shit while demanding to have it all.
          I have no knowledge on Chinese laws but I would assume that what we are given here is the controversial part stripped of all the legal nuances so probably there exist provisions dealing at some degree with the problems you have pointed out. However, nobody is bothered about them now for the very obvious reasons I outlined in my first post.

      • Anon

        OMG another anti-red head NLP term ! How about this, Women who eat at ‘Wendy’s’ Fast Food franchise become – Wendy’s !!!

        http://www.wendys.com/

        More red-head hate?!? Honesty and neutral intent only ! Dave Thomas (deceased 2002, was a Jewish Mason, think feminist agenda Zionism, feminism and there you go . . . decide if you want to boycott . . . )

        Anyone want to set up an “二奶和小三” (think Coffee Beans and Tea Leaves) franchise to counter the ‘Wendy’ effect? Don’t get excited or take too seriously, being quasi-facetious, but who knows it could be a hit?

        • 吴兰

          Absolute awesomeness, ha ha.

      • 吴兰

        I ding your comment, Hongjian. However, trust is like a door to a saloon: it swings both ways. Less gold-diggers and less financially dependent women equals less tolerance towards infidelity on the men’s part which exists here also on a scale unique to China. Wounds will take decades to heal on both sides. It’s great to see this country change and even better to see the technocrats in Beijing turn their attention to something different than the rate of the economic growth.

  • andywattbulb

    Huh…so if both the man and the woman separately have the wealth to afford a house, who of the two makes the buy?

    …just don’t get married.

  • http://www.shajustice.wordpress.com Shah

    Good decision by China !!

  • Hongjian

    As I understand, the real intention of this law isnt mainly aimed at protecting male property or putting women at a disadvantage or even to curb gold-digging, but mainly it was intented to initiate a major change in the mindset for marriages.

    Up now, a woman only accepted a marriage proposal, if the male owned housings and other assets, that was near impossible for males to attain with their own wages in a legal manner. Most of the time, the elders of the male had to step in for aid, or it had to be attained through illegal means.

    This law would force the female party to stop demanding such impossible things from the male party, knowing that even if the male had these expensive assets, she would still have no say over their ownership, which would change the entire mindset and goals for any marriage. Or so was the intention of the state.

    But the real underlaying problem forcing both sexes to be engaged in such a zero-sum game made of marriage of conveniences and the hard works for the ownership of one of these shitty overpriced houses, lies in an entirely different failure of Chinese law: The rental law.

    With the rental law as it is now, the lodger is hardly protected from sudden and abitrary price hikes set by the landlord. With this problem at hand, and lots of cases where greedy landlords abused their power and chased out their lodgers with absolutely unreasonable increases in rent, nearly all Chinese people are forced to attempt to own a house themselves.
    In harsh contrast to e.g. european countries, where there are laws protecting the lodger, China has a very low percentage of people who are living in rented flats, due to obvious reasons.
    This is one of the main causes for the obsessive fixation of Chinese couples for their own houses, that are their own property.
    With an overdue rental law that is finally up to the standard of a modern country, there would be far less Chinese people willing to kill themselves and each other over these stupid housings, and instead would be more willing to live in rental houses which would benefit the financially weaker classes, which in return will also automatically attain the original intention of the new marriage law.

    • GodsHammer

      Hongjians account has been hijacked it seems. I agree with everything he just said and the way he said it….the end is obviously nigh.

      • Tengu

        I noticed it in both postings, but to be honest I was afraid to mention it.

        I was a bit freaked out that I was actually reading both posts and musing to myself. “Yeah dammit, yeah, that make sense”, “Hmm, interesting slant, never thought of it that way.

        Sort of like a car accident, you know you shouldn’t but you look any way.

        It was all put together so well; I’m still a bit nervous, like we’re all being lured into the town square and suddenly notice people in black running silently on the rooftops or gunfire from up in the mountains…the result, we called “Sarajevo Roses.”

        • Just John

          I still say that his recent postings indicate that the body snatchers have landed, and that we are being replaced by rational, thinking aliens from some distant galaxy.

          Before you know it, the internet will see a deluge of reasonable, rational people throwing around real, concrete, well thought out ideas.

          It will be an absolute nightmare, with no one flaming, overgeneralizing, and no one randomly attacking other people with straw man arguments because the cannot win through honest, objective debates. What will this world become? Rational? The horror!

          • Tengu

            So your contention is we could wind up with a situation where your catchphrase “You’re an idiot!” may ultimately be considered “flaming.”

            I’m a little concerned, I thought eventually we’d all finally meet in hell, at this rate…it’s just a dream.

          • Just John

            Actually, I prefer to think of that catch phrase more as an identifier of their lack of intelligence. Usually I have two ways I use it, either as a “your an idiot and here is why, or a “here is why I disagree with you, so by these reasons your an idiot”.

            See, I don’t randomly flame without prejudice, I just give them my opinion of them with my reasons to back me up in a non-politically correct way.

        • anon

          Actually, Hongjian often makes rather reasonable points…if people didn’t get sidetracked by his too-obvious-to-be-taken-seriously red herrings.

          • Tengu

            Unquestionably reasonable and insightful points.

    • Slant

      The new marriage law would change the social burden of the young Chinese man trying to purchase a house just as a standard for getting married.

      In Shanghai, housing prices are crazy ( average 2 million ) and the average salary of a fresh local graduate is around 3 to 4 k having graduated at around 23 years old. Just imagine the pressure this young man will face to be able to get married. ( No Car, No House = No Marriage ) This is the standard. Most will depend on their poor parents who invest their life savings for the child. Which in the past used to be a gamble. This is because if their male child divorce, half will go to the other spouse. The elder parents of the male half might not have any more money to buy another house for their son if he intends to remarry. Hence the new law will protect the old parent’s investment. Which parent doesn’t want the best for his/her kid?

      Now the new law will change totally how the locals view marriage.
      The woman will marry more for the right reasons rather than for the house. They also cant to sit back and depend on the man, but rather have to come out to work hard in their professional life for their own future and security, ( Not to say all woman takes it easy ). We however cannot dismiss the fact that many local Chinese woman actually view marriage as a chance to escape the harshness of realistic life and viewing marriage as an opportunity to escape.

      In shanghai many women do not know how to cook or do housework. I saw an earlier post that woman complained about looking after the house for 10 years and get nothing. Well than, to solve that problem, i suggest for the woman to also work professionally and both spouse could get an ayi ( part time maid ) to clean the household. In that way the woman will also be self dependent. AYI price is not expensive and the family will have double income.

      Another good reason for the law is man will be able to filter off gold diggers who are marrying them for their houses. When a woman requests specifically as a term for marriage that the house deeds to include her name. The man can proceed cautiously. People may dispute that man have marital affairs and woman work hard to give birth. Despite all these arguments, I believe those who sincerely want to get married doesn’t want their marriage to end and wants to look for a partner they can trust their lives with grow old together. Hence this new law will filter out the gold digger.Well, I believe the new law will trigger off ideas like this that will actually benefit man or woman or marriage in the long-run

      The new law will thus :
      1) People will marry for the right reasons
      2) Woman will be more independent
      3) Relief the social stress stigma of the young man
      4) Protect old age parents who invests their life savings in their children’s house so that they can get married.

      • Hongjian

        great post.

        These points are correct and pretty much are mirroring the intention of the state by making this law.

        On the other hand, there are still many women, especially in the poorer rural areas who cant help but to be dependent on a marriage though. These particular women do lose a great part of their security, which is of course a downside for them. Though I dont know the full extent of the law with all their clauses, but I do think that there are things that would protect the female party if the male ditches her in just a horribly unjust manner, as seen in lots of cases in rural China, where drunk and abusive husbands are rather the norm.

        On the other hand, this whole problem is, at the core, a problem of China’s real-estate situation.
        A shanghai boy wouldnt be so hard-pressed into milking his old mom and dad’s savings to buy a 2 million RMB house, if he could actually find a cheaper rental flat somewhere that could be financed easily by his own money.
        But as posted before, the Chinese rental-law doesnt protect the lodger, which makes this whole option rather pointless for anybody.

        If China could solve this problem with a new rental-law, noone would be forced to ram their heads against concrete anymore by attempting to own a 2 mil house by the age of 23, just to impress some gold digging shanghai girl.

        Anyway, as woman I’m of course cautious about the effects on the social weaker rural women vs. their more abusive men, but in terms of the urban middle-class and elites where there’s a rather “equal” ‘balance power’ between the sexes, this general marriage law would provide opportunity to really have this zero-sum deadlock solved over the time, even if this doesnt really combat the real, financial, cause this social issue.

        • Hongjian

          Another idea would be to have this law distinguish between rural and urban marriages.
          Since comtemporary China is, no doubt inofficially but de-facto, a class-based society, generally made of the urban classes and the rural classes, which are seperated by worlds, a class-specific law wouldn’t actually be too far stretched.
          Since the hukou system already is seperating both classes de-facto and de-jure, it would be thinkable to apply this new marriage law only in the cities, while the old law that gives the woman an edge in case of a divorce, remains largely unchanged in the rural areas.

          Through the hukou-system rural men wouldnt be able to go to the urban areas to marry, just to gain an advantage over their poor women, while an urban wendy wouldnt even think of giving up her urban privileges and even the most basic social wellfare that comes along by giving up their urban hukou, just to have the chance to dig some gold in the rural areas.

          Of course this law would be highly discriminatory and unthinkable in a western state, but in China, this might actually work.

          This, of course, will entrench the rural and urban classes even further from each other, but it cant be helped by nowadays economic situation and the level of China’s social-system development.
          I see such a potential law merely as transitionally solution, until the housing and real-estate situation gets better and the rural economic development reaches a new major landmark that makes such class seperation obsolete. Even up to the point to abolish the hukou system, since it is not needed anymore to prevent large scaled rural exodus and flight into the cities due to the economic discrepancies between the two worlds.

          One shouldnt forget that this country is in a phase of modernization that took the western world 400 years – in just mere 40 years in China’s case.

          • Brett Hunan

            hong—

            Maybe its how I am reading it, but it seams like if the law only applied in the cities, than someone could potentially move to the countryside and “dig some gold”.

            Wouldn’t this law protect both the people in and out of the cities regardless of class?

            Anyways… great post. I’ve lived in rural China for a few years and divorce is much less common here than in the cities. I lived in Shandong a few years ago and it was obvious that girls were marrying older men for privelages that the younger generation couldn’t give them. Here in Hunan, the ages may be different sometimes, but many cases are high school sweethearts or college couples that get married. Neither have great jobs and as migrant workers they buy a house together for their children.

            The point of rapid modernization is a good one too. We from the west already have our ethics engraved into our heads, but China has been rapidly changing over a much shorter period of time. I think we just need to give it some time to work itself out.

      • Anon

        . . . housing prices are crazy ( average 2 million ) . . .

        In most places near the city thats the average price actually which is far worse than Shanghai itself, considering the growth levels, vibrance and economic opportunity of China and alck of the same in places demanding the same prices.

    • Stu

      Holy crap, this is a seriously good point. It’s funny, I’m aware of landlords arbitrarily putting the rent way up or throwing out tenants, and I didn’t even think of the legal aspect or the resulting social problems. Like, whoah. Now I need to find out more about rental laws…

  • Ray

    Don’t worry fauna, you can come overseas to get married instead of getting cheated on!

    • Just John

      Westerners don’t cheat?
      What cave do you live in?

      • Anon

        Shh, don’t disturb the mating ritual. Lets see if the female (Fauna) responds.

  • SH Slim

    Finally the selfish little money grabbing bitches get their’s!!! YEAH Equality, finally guys you get a break. AWESOME! EQUALITY and love for love and not love for money!!! BITCHES!!!!!!!

  • FYIADragoon

    Sounds like Chinese women are just bunch of butthurt golddiggers.

    • Disgusted

      We shouldn’t generalize all of them, just a few in “wHole”…aka Wendy Deng golddigger wannabees…just remember guys (foreigners), your stock just went up in this legislation…

  • http://www.erikheyl.com Erik

    I absolutely agree! If the guy puts down on the house, he keeps it PERIOD. We wanted you women because you gave the impression of wanting to be a PARTNER. Not a DEPENDENT. So if you decide you don’t want us anymore, you suddenly become incapable of having your own place, living the lifestyle that you want, all on your own? I thought you didn’t NEED us? But you want our money? Good for China.

  • URMOMM

    Good law

    serious there are a bunch of lazy wifes

    who just sit at home watching ppstream and order food

    they dont want go out work because its to hot in the summer and to cold in the Winter.

    and after that they even dont agree to sex and romantic beahavior anymore.

    than the man get lonley that he start cheating

    and he want loose this stone who was once his wife and after feeding her and pay her everything he must give her a lot of money.

    sorry yeah good law, man are no money maschine, and if girls are really so for love why care for money at the divorce so much?

    went ever a women to lawyer and said i dont want divorce i love him, i dont want money just his love back

    • cb4242

      Sounds like you are talking about “eattot”

      • eattot

        talking about your mom!
        men are funny, they want women to love them, but what offer to make women love them? women are not fools, either they like handsome men, either capable men who can offer them safty, either guys who really care for them, love them…
        but what most men offer???
        regarding to my personal date experience: nowadays, men also diggers, even some white men in china, they want girls from rich family too. i dated a foreign man(not young guy any more), he asked me what my father is, then i knew it’s time to leave.
        happy is, now i am with a good man, not because he is very rich, because he cares for me a lot. he always takes my hand when cross streets…i never ask for money in relationship plus!

        • Just John

          No worries eattot, we already know what your dad does, so we will not ask you.

          He is a plastic bottle scavenger.

          And he takes your hand? Does he at least give it back after he has crossed the street? Not sure why he would need your hand to cross the street, since you use your legs more then your hands. Do you care to give us more details on this particular situation?

        • cb4242

          @Eattot, You never ask him for money? So you want a medal for that?! YOU SHOULDN’T ASK HIM FOR MONEY! Get your own money! if he chooses to give you some, fine. But asking him? You want to pimp him. You just contradicted yourself, you saind, you want “equality” and yet, you think the man HAS to foot everything. What on earth are you smoking?
          Is your man Chinese, if so, wow!

        • Ted

          You are beautiful when you are angry…

        • Anon

          Safty? One H(hentai) short of a ‘Shafty’.

          Sure the guys can all offer ‘shafties’.

          IMHO this whole site is full of NLP users. Males @eatot posing as feminists THEN using pro-male-sexist NLPs? Blur – Boy’s and Girls (1994) !

          How about meaning what you say instead of manipulating to no end? Oh and I believe some of the commentators here are the same person engaging in NLP convos with themselves like @Tengu and @Johns.

          No need to do this NLP b.s. like a treacherous coward, or manipulative dictator, or a NLP pollutor, but use the legal method (legalise or petition) or fall back on the HRC.

          Otherwise ignore if makes no sense or not relevant. Unethical agenda oriented commenting needs to be debunked! Or at least declare this is a war zone for wordsmiths.

  • too yellow

    If you actually bothered to read the original interpretation (it’s now a new law, it’s a recent supreme court decision that clarified how debt and asset is settled during divorce) It only applies to when Party A or Party A’s parents places down payment for the asset before marriage, so it counts of pre-marriage property rather than community property. In the event of an divorce, Party B will get back half of the equity contributed during the marriage. (Therefore, getting back the mortgage payment made, but not enjoying any appreciation of the asset.) This actually isn’t a whole lot different than how things are settled outside of China. But it’s caused an upsoar because of the following:

    1. In China, it’s often the groom’s the parent that pays for a house rather than the new couple, and it often acts as dowry. In this case, in divorce groom’s family can get dowry back minimizing loss, but the girl can’t get back the years lost.

    2. House prices rises China and inflation is high. So the one get the house get asset application value during, while other get back mortgage payment only suffers inflation. (Though you can probably build a case to add inflation to mortgage payment. But that requires lawyers, and we all know how much lawyers cost in nasty divorces)

    3. Unlike common law countries, there is no such thing as alimony. So fight for existing assets is the focus of Chinese divorces and any loss is significant, while in common law countries any loss can be made up in fight over alimony payments

    4. Just face it, there is a lot of gold diggers in China. And this is a major setback.

    • Just John

      Well, thank you for the further explanation on what it is we are dealing with here. It helps explain the situation more thoroughly.

      For your reference though, many people here will in fact not read the original interpretation because many people here do not read Chinese, that is why they are reading an English blog of popular Chinese content, not a Chinese blog of popular Chinese content (ie. The source). So next time, please keep that in mind before you start spouting off “If you had bothered to read the original interpretation”.

      • Tengu

        Well my Babelfish was working just fine I though.now I know it was my fault to begin with.

        I bought a house when I was 23 without any help from my parents, lost 1/2 of that one in a divorce, bought another, sold it bought another, now on my 5th and 6th, but you win some, you lose some. It’s the nature of the beast.

        As they say, “No one gets out alive!”

        I’m not sure why renting is so looked down upon. I many western countries/cities e.g. New York City, Paris, Rome, Madrid a large percentage of the population rents and there is no stigma attached to it.

        European renters have more protection than home owners.

        I’ve looked at property to purchase in Spain. Portugal and Italy, but some have tenants in an apartment; I would have to actually “buy out” (cash money) the existing tenants, but if the wish to stay they can pass on their right of rental onto their children and you cannot force them out. Additionally the rate of increase for any rental is government controlled.

        In the US, I can buy a house, blow the rent up 100% and force them out, but in many other countries, that’s illegal.

        I find the fixation on ownership, asset recovery a bit onerous.

        So say your parents, because of this fixation, give you money to buy a house in what we all know is a housing bubble.

        You pay 2 million, but in three years it’s worth 1 million.

        Who cries then?

        Houses in Naples, Florida at one point were selling for 90% more than their actual worth. If you bought during that period, you lost a lot of cash, a lot of equity and a lot of equity and may in fact have negative equity and be paying a mortgage with a loan amount greater than the value of the property itself.

        It’s not like Shanghai’s property is only going to keep going higher and higher, that’s absolutely unrealistic, there will be a housing correction. China is now in a housing bubble which will burst eventually.

        It’s the nature of any “investment”. You win some, you lose some.

        Real property is no longer the “can’t lose”/”sure thing” it was years ago. These prices are unsustainable in the long run.

        So while there may be some gold diggers, there will also be a few smart ones that say , Bye, bye….keep making your mortgage payment on the house your mommy and daddy bought you. It’s worth 1/2 what it was.”

        If it all boils down to finance, equity and asset value retention or protection from “gold diggers” then why would ANY woman/man continue to put money into a losing proposition. Bail out, walk away, “have a nice day! You can pay the entire mortgage.”

        • too yellow

          The thing is most people in China don’t see houses as investment, they see if as expense. So rising property value is essentially inflation for them. Since unlike pork belly, a house will last, so buying a house is hedge against future inflation.

          Also, houses in China acts like diamond in western societies, it shows a guy is willing to bleed and commit to an marriage. And like diamonds, the its price is pushed beyond it’s actual worth. Also in China, there is no such thing as apartments like the US. It’s either dormitory or private individual (not commercial) rental condos. So it’s not really suited for raising a family long term. So for migrants, kids are left on the family with the grand parents and young city folks either rent or live with their parents to slave for a house in order to form a family. The parents usually have a older government housing that was privatized at a very cheap price back in the 90s. (My grandma got her 100 sq meter place for just 12k RMB, it’s now worth over 600k RMB.)

          • Tengu

            Thank you for the additional information, appreciated.

            One question though, the government can take any home/Condo building and tear it down “when it is in the public interest” and you are compensated for it, correct?

            I also understand about the nails.

            It’s the “when it is in the public interest” part that is being mutated and twisted by corrupt officials.

            How does that insecurity of place affect the individual, or am I over thinking it and it is just simply and acceptance of the status quo.

            Obviously I can only look at it from Western eyes, but most westerners , I assume, would be concerned when buying a condo, knowing it can be torn down in a few years “when it is in the public interest” and they may have to relocate.

            That “sense of place” is an important part of home ownership for westerner.

            We do have “eminent domain” in the US, which is not used that often, but the end result is the same, it is an extreme and rare process.

            What are your thoughts? Am I way off base?

          • http://www.dunkonfire.com/ tylergreen001

            Chinas present Marriage Law has a defect in dealing with the civil responsibility of marital tort and cannot give victims effective judicial remedies.

    • Ted

      Very well said.

  • Ted

    “The love of money is the root of all evil…”
    This concept has not made it’s way into China, it seems.
    Love is supposed to be the reason for marriage, not self enrichment.
    Gold Digging is an institution here. Thus the frustrated outcry of hopeful gold diggers over this decision.

  • Josey Wales

    If house prices in China were more reasonable then this issue wouldn’t arise. Also, if the Chinese had more options for investment other than housing, they wouldn’t be so fixated on who gets the house.

    Over to you Hu Jintao.

  • Disgusted

    Another interesting article about the wealthy people in China…

    http://ntdtelevision.com/2011/04/28/chinas-rich-are-moving-out%E2%80%94what-does-this-mean-for-chinas-future/

    Looks like the pickings for golddiggers are getting smaller…

  • http://gregblandino@gmail.com greg

    yo let’s get something on the G-town BaYi brawl if you please Fauna.

    • Tengu

      That was a great piece of video , one I saw was a bit too grainy and off center to tell who actually started it.

      Any Idea.

      Would make for some “lively” discussion.

  • cc

    Just want to point out a few facts in China: 1 Only few lucky working women have maternal leave, mostly those who work for the government and big company. 2 There isn’t such a thing as spouse support/alimony after divorce, even child care is very low. Given such situation, a woman doesn’t have much choice here if she wants to get married and have a baby and if she isn’t one of those lucky ones with maternal leave. She happens to marry a guy with an apartment. She gives up her job and takes care of the family. But after a few years, the man gets tired of her and wants to throw her out. The child support wouldn’t even be enough to cover the rent. And after a few years for housework and baby care, she would find she is far behind the times, it’s not easy to catch up again…..If a law lets this happen, it’s not much of a good law then!

  • http://unblockfacebookinchina.info/vpn-in-china Rod

    I think it’s great. Independence and people are starting to think about themselves instead of depending on others. Maybe I’m just cynical, but I think you can trust no one, not even your life-partner. Things change, and this kind of arrangement means you’ve got to consider the fact that your rich, well-off, handsome husband might leave you in the future.

    This is (part of) the start of the independent woman in China.

  • david

    this is good.
    it helps women get more power.
    as a foreigner. i see chinese women rely on men far too much.
    they are capable of managing their own lives. if they rely on a man too much, what will happen to her if he leaves?

    as far as the house goes, well i think the best choice is to sell it and split the money

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»