Elderly Driver Mows Down Group of Bicyclists in Shandong

A scene of the wreckage and bodies of the bikers

From East Red Movement Net:

[Tragic] Yantai Massive Traffic Accident


From: iamgod (西门吹牛), Mail Zone: Cyclone
Subject: Just now in Yantai, a group of bicyclists had a massive traffic accident
Sent: From 水木社区 (Fri Jun 22 17:23:57 2012), privately

A white Lexus was driving on the wrong side of the road against traffic, and mowed down an entire group of bicyclists head on. It’s said that already four people are dead, and several severely injured.

My coworkers and husband are part of this bike club. Fortunately, they have been busy recently, and didn’t participate in this event.

=============================================
From: TheHanged
Subject: Re: Just now in Yantai, a group of bicyclists had a massive traffic accident
Sent: From 水木社区 (Fri Jun 22 18:58:07 2012), privately

There’s a video here.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDE3OTcyOTM2.html

A bus that passed by shot it.

It’s awful…

=============================================
The latest news is that five died and two were injured. Angry emoticon.

On Youku:

The above video quickly accumulated over 2 million views making it to the top of Youku’s most viewed lists over the weekend, and currently has over 8000 comments spread over 268 pages. It was, in fact, just one of many videos uploaded to the video hosting website by Chinese netizens who happened to drive by the scene of the accident that day. The following video, for example, has nearly 1 million views:Comments from Youku:

cdwgz:

No one is covering it here. The local media acts like it didn’t happen.

陈明洲_6443:

Fuck, I’m fucking almost too scared to ride again after this.

政经V新闻:

This whole thing is really an unintentional accident. The offending party definitely will definitely take all the blame, but you can’t tell if it’s a DUI or someone acting out specifically against society. The victims had a lot of people gathered on the road at once, and didn’t have any safety plans or protection. The fact that five people got hit at once with these conditions definitely is important to consider. Nowadays, there are more and more clubs. Group activities like this really need to be more careful.

强哥打酱油:

The local media, daily papers, evening papers, morning papers, the Qilu Evening News, hold fast to party-like principles, with not a single word of reporting. //袁裕来律师: Spread the news! //章海東-Eric: //羅梁AlanLaw: A moment of silence for the dead.

白色巨塔里的猫:

Yeah, I saw this two days ago, but it was an accident, nothing you can do.

xiao-happiness:

Really, just what was this driver doing~ How was he allowed on the road!?

傅靓靓:

Take a look at the Qilu Evening News. Simply inhuman.

漂亮的溺水者:

How fast was he going!!! Shameful, may he be reincarnated as a tire in his next life! [This is sort of pun because “reincarnate” and “tire” in Chinese both end with the character 胎, meaning embryo/beginning of life. 胎, read tāi, is also the transliteration for tire.]

忧乐轩:

There were reports on both Jinan and Qilu radio, it’s just that nothing was said about how it will be handled. I think there was a problem with the driver: Going the wrong way, driving that fast. If it weren’t for the help of street lights and the shrubs on the side of the road, that sucker would’ve gone straight to the south pole! He should be harshly punished! How many families were ruined!

胶州好男儿:

That white Lexus definitely must have a deep background [strong connections]!!! I await the truth!!!

smile_袁毅:

It’s really not that hard, and actually not that difficult to pull off at all. As long as you have the determination, you could do it, too.

子默的快乐禅心:

This is what the lousy media is like, little regard for human life, such bullshit. The Qilu Evening News reported about this for a bit, but didn’t really say anything, such a disgrace.

–雾里看花看海:

Guan Er’dai?? Fu Er’dai?? DUI??

高月宝:

Tragic, the driver should be severely punished. May the souls of the victims rest in peace.

A memorial plaque made for the Jinan Bike Crew

On the 24th, several Yantai city bicycling enthusiasts hung a memorial plaque at the site of the accident, reading “Jinan bikers, safe travels/rest in peace”. Photographed by Zhao Jinyang.

From Southern Net and Qilu Evening News:

5 Bicyclist Enthusiasts die Yantai crash, the elderly offending driver claims he suffers from vertigo

On the 24th, several Yantai city [in Shandong province] bicycling enthusiasts hung a memorial plaque at the site of the accident, reading “Jinan bikers, safe travels [rest in peace]”. Photographed by Zhao Jinyang.

“If the driver that caused this accident really had vertigo, then his responsibility is even greater,” said a member of one the victim’s families to reporters on the 24th. It is unknown if the driver who caused the accident, already 69 years old, followed the law and went for physical checkups at the doctor annually. If he knew he had a disorder [that prevented him from driving safely] and still drove anyway, then it is possible he was knowingly breaking the law.

“In the next one or two days, the report determining the responsibility for the accident should come out,” says the relative. Looking at the current situation, one can readily determine which party is to blame. The results of the report are easy to predict. “Waiting for the accident report is just a formality at this point.”

The relative goes on to say that right after the accident, the families of the five victims all rushed to Yantai where they awaited the results of the coroner’s report. The families are now physically and emotionally exhausted, and have already returned to Jinan. When the accident responsibility report is released, they will all go back to Yantai to take care of what comes next.

According to the relative, how the aftermath will be handled, including how the driver will be dealt with and the compensation for the families of the dead and wounded, is still waiting on local authorities, and will probably be a while before there are any definite results.

“The law states explicitly, those who suffer from vertigo absolutely may not operate automobiles,” explains one of the people working with the Jinan police. According to the Public Security Bureau’s “Law of Motorized Vehicle Licensing and Use” those who are inflicted with heart disease, epilepsy, Ménière’s disease, vertigo, and other disorders that influence the function of extremities and prevent safe driving may not receive a driver’s license. “If you comply with the health standards and are issued a driver’s license, but develop a condition later, you should apply to cancel your driver’s license immediately.”

“As soon as vertigo is induced, one will lose feeling of position, and won’t be able to distinguish direction,” explains Shandong University Second Hospital’s Head of Otolaryngology Fan Xianliang. Vertigo is actually a condition that impedes the sufferer’s sense of balance. There are many things that can induce vertigo, such clogged blood vessels in the brain, spondylosis, and inner ear disease. Vertigo is also classified in blood vessel, spinal, and ear related vertigo. Of course, vertigo is not represented by loss of reasoning and consciousness. One who experiences vertigo remains conscious of their actions throughout the process.

“He [the driver] claimed he suffered vertigo to the police. If he really had a condition like that, he shouldn’t have been driving, otherwise he’d being endangering the public and knowingly committing a crime,” asserts the relative.

Lawyer Wang Wei of the Shandong Qianshun Law Firm says, the driver can not be relieved of responsibility by blaming his vertigo, because the law is clear on the matter. If the driver purposely hid the fact that he had vertigo [to get his license] and drove anyway, and the accident was really caused by his vertigo, then he definitely has to take responsibility.

The white lexus that slammed into the bikers

Medical bills for the injured was paid for by a collection taken by the biking club

On the 24th I was able to reach victim Mr. Zhao at the Yantai Yuhuangding Hospital. His left calf sustained injury during the accident. On the 22nd he underwent surgery.

Mr. Zhao says, from what the doctors explained, although the surgery has already been completed, it will still be another week before they know if it was successful. If not, it must be done again. Even if the surgery is successful, he will still have to be in the hospital for another month. Furthermore, the balls of Mr. Zhao’s feet currently are suffering from nerve damage. Whether or not this will affect his ability to walk in the future is unclear, but he will not be able to perform dramatic exercise with his feet.

“Right now we’ve already done the bone restoration surgery, but with still have to observe the condition of the skin,” explains Zhao. Currently he is taking painkillers for his leg, so it not so painful. His older brother is in the hospital looking after him.

Zhao explains that on the 23rd the police came to the hospital to give him a pamphlet explaining his rights and obligations as a party in the traffic accident and to ask about his history of illness.

However, Mr. Zhao is more worried about how the police will handle the investigation of responsibility in the accident and case progress. He still does not know the specifics, and the family of the driver has not come forward.

“I hope the related authorities don’t procrastinate, and can get the reparations sorted out as soon as possible,” says Zhao. He has been living in the hospital for two days now and has already spent over 10,000 RMB in medical expenses. These expenses have all been covered by himself and friends from the biking club. The families of the dead and wounded hope they are able to receive the compensation they deserve.

Elderly drivers must submit physical exam reports annually

The police explain, according to the “Law of Motorized Vehicle Licensing and Use,” all drivers of motorized vehicles over the age of 60 must undergo one physical examination a year and submit the physical examination results to a county-level or higher government medical organization within 15 days of the examination. “This law is obligatory, there is no room for negotiation,” explains the Jinan police.

“Looking at the issue from age, the law actually becomes progressively more limiting for drivers,” the police clarify. As the age of the driver increases, the types of vehicle the driver may operate gradually decreases.

Statistics show, as of 2011 October 30, there were 33,105 drivers in Jinan that had their licenses revoked due to failure to submit physical exam results or renew licenses.

However the police also brought up that, having vertigo is like driving under the influence. Although [Chinese] law does not cover it explicitly, in reality the driver knows they are leaving things to chance [when they drive under the influence/with vertigo]. They obviously do not have the ability to drive safely, but still operate motorized vehicles and [eventually] bring about losses and injury to themselves and others that cannot be undone.

Whether or not the 69-year-old driver had submitted his annual physical exam results, the police did not say.

A picture of the driver, Li Peilin

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  • matt

    sofa?

    • matt

      i wonder how much money the doctor took to give the 69 year old with vertigo a license

      • Ryo

        20 RMB. When I went and got mine, I went to a hole in the wall (clinic) near the local “DMV” who offered eye exams for 20 RMB. The “nurse” ask me if I can see [this chart]. I said of course. Then she took my money and stamped my paper and said I passed.

        • Robert

          similar for me, I took the test (honest way) then when I went to the test center a few days later I forgot to take the medical form. Went back to the hospital, saw a different nurse, told them I forgot my form and needed a new one and they gave me one, no charge!

        • ric

          you are scum

  • Getrealson

    Such a shame. A tragic accident. I hope the old man does the right thing. This could be a scene from any country, let’s not turn it into a China bashing.

    • Bang

      The first, and maybe last, wise comment here

      • Patrick

        Less than 30 minutes was all it took for the post below. Not all that bad considering. Please everyone try to be respectful (while secretly hoping they’re all government officials).

        • bert

          This site is called CHINASMACK after all.

        • anon

          I felt I had to come back to this comment and express how much I laughed at the government officials line. I can imagine Chinese netizens secretly hoping, though biking isn’t stereotypically associated with activities government officials get up to. Maybe if the old man mowed down a procession of black Audis…

          • Patrick

            Right I know, but it’s one of those “I can dream moments” and I’m really keeping the small town local government cadres in mind. They don’t drive even the black Audi’s, just whatever the can afford from bleeding the locals. You know the self-serving bastards I speak of.

    • b. prichard

      Can I turn into old people bashing? The issue of incompetent old people driving is transnational. Wherever the automobile is, the scourge of fuzzy-headed old people with eyes full of cataracts and brains moving at the speed of turtles is there.

  • Pingback: » Bicyclists Strewn Everywhere: One Car Kills Five [UPDATE] Beijing Cream()

  • Li RuiKe

    69 is NOT that “elderly”! Who is he? What’s his position? Where was he coming from? Was he drinking? How often does he drive the wrong way?
    I ride my bicycle to work every day and every day there are freakin’ selfish retards of all ages driving the wrong way in bicycle lanes. And, yeah, they’re usually in expensive cars. I take photos. I slam their side view mirrors. I slap their cars and yell at them. But the freakin’ selfish retards usually shout back curses at me and honk their horns, as if I was the offender.
    This Lexus driving murderer should be jailed until traffic accident victims are ready to receive his “donated” organs. Honestly!
    Who would dare to protect this murderer? Only other murderers.
    China’s cops suck. Absolutely suck. This country is hopeless for good people.

    • Boris

      Fucking pricks! Every day I ride my bike some idiotic driver will unnecessarily put my life at risk. I know Chinese people who’ve been cycling for years who have now given up because so many drivers drive so recklessly. China absolutely needs to be bashed over this. Until the police start implementing their traffic laws, nothing will change -in fact the chaos will escalate as the traffic grows. As you wrote, the more expensive the car, the more the imbecillic driver is likely to be a roadhog.

      • Patrick

        I recently gave away my ebike (just got brand new batteries too). I had my third broken arm, this one requiring a two week hospital stay two rods and ten screws. Two of the crashes were because of someone else’s reckless driving. Enough really, can’t handle it anymore. On a side note, I had only two crashes that were partially my fault. I hit a police car because my brakes failed and a motorcycle cop because it was one of those first scorching hot days of summer and my tires just wouldn’t grab the road when I braked, must have skid 20 feet before nailing him. Tore up my knee but totally worth his terminator response of “no problem”.

        • Rod

          Bad luck, hitting a cop twice.

          • Patrick

            And yet, some might say it was fortuitous. The first cop really had no idea what to do he was kinda in one of those wtf moments. The second was just cool, I really meant in a terminator kinda way, but he let me go. He popped out of an alleyway in a heavy traffic zone.

        • Nick in Beijing

          Similar experience. I gave up my e-bike after demolishing some Chinese guy’s e-bike.

          We had shared fault, but the larger share went to him since he didn’t have lights on at night and was on his cellphone while riding.

          My e-bike has an iron frame and with my size coupled with the weight of the bike we clipped each others handle bars and I had the momentum (due to weight) and he went down.

          I took him to the hospital (regardless of responsibility, he works at a Chinese kfc… not exactly a lucrative activity) and had a huge fight with his wife’s whole family.

          It’s getting less and less worth it to ride bikes or e-bikes with the selfish and irresponsible way that people here drive/ride, and the way problems are handled if there is an accident.

          • Patrick

            Exactly why I gave my bike away. By the way I figure it I have spent over 70,000 rmb in troubles over it (wife included), I’ll just stick with taxi’s and walking.

  • cc

    Vertigo, a condition whereby the sensation of moving is experienced,
    well of course the silly old duffer is moving his in a kin car. Vertigo my arse, another back hander to the authorities to hush it all up.

    • Boris

      Vertigo? ‘Cunt was probably sending a text with his left hand, eating watermelon with his right, and steering with his fucking elbows!

  • Jeff

    he’s driving a lexus – means he’s got money and connections. means nothing will happen to him and he’ll be driving a new car next week.

    • bert

      Oh Jeff, don’t say such things! You know this happens all over the world esp. in the USA everyday. No no no!

      • Not the same.
        For chinese corruption is a quite a bad thing.

    • Xiongmao

      Lexuses (Lexi?) really aren’t that expensive in China. If his son or whoever is the owner is just middle class and in his late forties, it’s definitely possible to buy a lexus after having saved for some years.

  • Brett Hunan

    Wow. I was in a Jinan bike club in 2008. I wonder if I know any of those guys.

    I, personally, dont think anyone over the age of 65 should be allowed to drive. Reaction time slows down and the road becomes less safe for everyone.

    Also, if this guy (or his kid) could afford this Lexus, he could afford a driver. Now he and the families of the victims must live with this event for the rest of their lives. Very irresponsible. Very tragic.

    • Li RuiKe

      Really, I have to say, again, to stop blaming the age. The worst drivers are the inexperienced. US drivers insurance is very high until the age of 25. Most US driver start learning at 15. That’s 10 years of practice. How many drivers in China have 10 years of traffic law-abiding driving experience? I’d say none. My dad is 73, has had a broken back and walks with an walking aid. He drives his pickup truck safely every day. He doesn’t drive like the common Chinese retard driver. He knows and respects the traffic laws. He knows the difference between a bike lane and a road. He knows the meaning of a red light. He never uses his horn. Stop blaming age.

      • jin

        its not age, blame the person.
        he got vertigo and still drive, that is being irresponsible.

      • Brett Hunan

        Because you wish to defend against my old age comment, you can do the research about statistical chance of people getting into an accident once they are over 60. Just because your father and my grandmother have a perfect driving record and are very safe does not mean what I posted about reaction time is also not true. Do the research and get back to me.

      • Brett Hunan

        Okay, because I am bored this morning, I researched a little bit for you.

        Read 5th and 6th paragraphs
        -Road safety analysts predict that by 2030, when all baby boomers are at least 65, they will be responsible for 25% of all fatal crashes. In 2005, 11% of fatal crashes involved drivers that old.

        Take into account that not all elderly (from the 9%) drive
        -In a 1997 NHTSA study, older people made up 9 percent of the population but accounted for 14 percent of all traffic fatalities and 17 percent of all pedestrian fatalities.

        The Insurance Information Institute says “Older drivers have higher rates of fatal crashes, based on miles driven, than any other group except young drivers” and a lot more at their site.

        And from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
        -“Safe elderly drivers require the complex coordination of many different skills. The physical and mental changes that accompany aging can diminish the abilities of elderly drivers. These include: a slowdown in response time; a loss of clarity in vision and hearing; a loss of muscle strength and flexibility; drowsiness due to medications; and a reduction in the ability to focus or concentrate.”

        Though, it would be unfair to say that age alone is sufficient enough information to judge whether someone is or is not unfit to drive. Okay, I rethought my statement about drivers over 65. I retract that they shouldn’t be allowed to drive, but I do think there should be a biannual test for everyone once they reach 65 years old. I also think that young adults should be subject to more restrictions until they reach the age of 25. Cars are massive, fast-moving, objects that in the wrong hands becomes a very dangerous object convenience.

    • moop

      “I, personally, dont think anyone over the age of 65 should be allowed to drive. Reaction time slows down and the road becomes less safe for everyone”

      i don’t think they should automatically not be allowed to drive, but they should be subject to testing once a year to maintain a license

      • Brett Hunan

        Yea, I wrote that before I really made up my mind on the subject. Just 6 minutes before you posted, I changed my view to they should be subject to stringent testing (as should teens).

    • Xiongmao

      I’m not sure I agree with your age limit for driving. My parents are in their early 60s and they’re both perfectly able to operate a car safely. I drive a car here in China AND I have a baby so I’m manic about safety but I’d be fine with my parents driving us if needed. I think maybe doctors ought to be better at weeding out the dangerous ones. If you have to get a check up every year, someone should have stopped this guy if he wasn’t capable. Unfortunately, it’s not unreasonable to assume that guanxi would cause a doctor to renew a license that shouldn’t have been.

  • kilroy238

    The guy is a fucking murderer. No if’s and’s or but’s. I’d like to see the guy executed by having his broken ass Lexus dropped on top of him.

    I don’t understand why Chinese put up with this shit.

    • In the words of China, “We are a developing country”.

      “Developing how exactly?” is my question.

      • jin

        In the words of the world, It’s just a traffic accident with a douchbag behind the wheels.

        “this doesnt happen anywhere else?” is my question.

        • The Enlightened One

          Yeah, this kind of thing does happen all over the world. Let’s be fair on that obvious fact. People do drive in the bus lanes and go through red lights in all developed countries.

          Although, I don’t normally see cars going down the wrong side of the road in the bike lane… that’s a new one…. unless you live in mainland China.

          • jin

            wait wait, maybe you dont know what vertigo is.
            if you got vertigo, you can get very dizzy.
            and maybe also get balance disorder.
            thats what caused this irresponsible douchbag to drive in the wrong side of the road.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo

          • anon

            I don’t think he was driving down the bike lane against traffic. It sounds like he suddenly drove over the center of the road into the opposite traffic lane, continued veering into the bike lane, ran over a bunch of people, and then ground to a stop in the bushes a bit further down (momentum and inertia and all).

          • I see cars driving the wrong direction in bike lanes every day, because This Is China!

            One of these days I’ll just jump and plant my wheel on a windshield. Hahaha! I can do that. I’m Canadian!

            In the meantime, I have taken out a mirror or two with my handlebars.

          • Patrick

            Yeah it does happen all over the world but see the thing is you can kinda relate to it on many levels. Using the obvious example, taxi drivers. Taxi drivers will do things with a taxi that at the age of 5 or 6 you thought was logical and wondered why your mom didn’t just use the sidewalk since no one else was at the time. Then of course they weave through traffic like you did when you were 16 – but way scarier. You know when your in a taxi and the taxi driver moves into the oncoming lane to see if there’s a vehicle coming and you think, oh right we’re behind a bus and another bus is careening our way at a fairly unsafe speed on a two lane street, the taxi driver will take the life-preserving step of not attempting it and wait the 3 or 4 seconds for the oncoming bus to pass. Suddenly you realize he has no patience and your life is flashing before your eyes while you’re curled in the fetal position in the back seat wailing like a 6 year old girl (this is merely a hypothetical situation and bears absolutely no resemblance to real life, any resemblance to actual situations is only possible because most of these guys are insane). Everyone must have their own personal that taxi driver was F#$%^@ crazy story.

          • linette

            I agree people with vertigo is best that they should not drive. If they do, they need a doctor note to pass the driving test and has to be retest every year with doctor’s note. The same with people with seizures. So many people are driving when they are ill. They are also driving under the influence of drugs like antihypertensive meds. What happens when the blood pressure is too low one morning and you feel dizzy behind wheels all the sudden especially for the elderly drivers.

            The motor vehicle department needs to be more strict with people with medical condition in China.

      • Ian G

        Developing a new species, definitely inhumane. Better grow some forests first so you can all go back to the trees where you belong.

    • anon

      Um, it was an accident and accidents happen?

      The only angle against this guy is if he really does have vertigo, knew about it, and still continued to drive. That would make him knowingly putting others at risk, but even then, you’ll get rationalizations that ultimately are little different from people who speed: “yeah, i know it can be dangerous but it isn’t going to happen to me” or “what are the odds?”

      That example may be a little unrealistic but I’m just saying we’re all more than capable and likely more than guilty of skirting the rules sometimes for personal convenience or exceptionalism.

      Its also entirely possible that his last medical was fine and this was the very first instance of vertigo he suffered. Stranger coincidences have happened. If that’s really the case, he’s going to have an awfully hard time proving that. It’s not like the paramedics found him seizing or unconscious with a stroke in the driver’s seat. At least then it would be obvious something out of his control suddenly caused him to lose control.

      What seems most likely to us is that he just fucked up while driving and in his panic he may be blaming a medical condition to escape some measure of culpability. Except if he admits to having a medical condition, then he’s just admitted to negligently driving when forbidden to by law. Still, he might be willing to take that than to admit that he just fucked up driving. Some people prefer to blame something they see as out of their control rather than to accept that they simply messed up. Ego preservation.

      Either way, I really don’t think he intended to hurt anyone. It looks like it was definitely an unintended accident. He’ll still have to live with the blood on his hand, but I’m not sure this is execution material. If there has to be capital punishment, I’d rather it be reserved for people with genuine malice or much “grosser” negligence. This might count, if he was knowingly driving with a condition, maybe.

      • I think it was connected to 9/11

      • Li RuiKe

        He killed 5 innocent people. What’s wrong with you!?!? Maybe if one of them was your son or daughter or brother or sister or wife, then you would feel for the victim rather than the murderer. Or maybe you’ve run over people with your car yourself, so you want to make yourself feel better by justifying this murderer. You drive a white Lexus?

        Chinese drivers are killers. How many stories do we need to prove this? And you know that we only hear about the very rare stories that happen to be captured on film. There must be a hundred unreported traffic fatalities caused by selfish, impatient, retarded drivers for every one that makes the news.

        I’ve been hit by a car 6 times in the last 7 years while riding my bicycle. Twice it happened on the campus of Tsinghua University. Once my wrist was broken, but the driver bribed to doctor to say it was an old injury, despite the fact that I’d never had a broken bone in my life. The last time my knee was injured. And, in every situation, the police are worthless, at best.

        • anon

          What’s wrong with me? I don’t throw the word “murderer” around so easily?

          I think you’re overreacting. I can easily understand the loved ones of those who he killed being extremely distraught and genuinely resentful of him, and I wouldn’t begrudge them of their emotions. However, vilifying him as being a murderer as if he intended to kill people is irrational. I’m not saying he shouldn’t face the consequences, I am saying calling him a “fucking murderer” and wanting his Lexus dropped on him is a little melodramatic, especially since everyone here is fully capable of making such a grievous accident.

          Most of my comment was about examining the possibilities for how much moral culpability we can attach to him. I think he bears more moral culpability and deserves more condemnation if he knowingly operated a motor vehicle with a serious condition. That’s like driving under the influence, grossly negligent, and I wouldn’t have much problems with people wanting his head for such irresponsible behavior.

          But we don’t know if that’s the case. He’s guilty of driving into a bunch of people, but we don’t know under what circumstances. Was he really negligent or was it just an accident? Surely you’ve accidentally hurt people before? Things aren’t black and white, and that’s why we have differences between concepts of murder and manslaughter.

          The last 2/3s of your comment is irrelevant to anything I said in my comment. I get that you have a particular angst against Chinese drivers but I’m just evaluating the circumstances of this case on the actual details we have. I’m not going to decree him a murderer just because he’s Chinese and somehow we all know Chinese drivers are killers who are selfish, impatient, and retarded. I’m also sorry you’ve had bad experiences in life. The best I can do is urge you to think rationally.

      • Little Wolf

        Congratulations anon. You have managed to portray a negligent assbag that killed 5 people as just a harmless Mr. Magoo. But at least your upstanding reputation of open-mindedness is intact and that’s what really matters.

        • anon

          Congratulations on letting your prejudices cloud your better judgement.

  • Alexander

    I really wish the traffic police, you know the ones who drive cars and are supposed to enforce traffic laws, would actually start doing something to prevent these kinds of things from happening. You would think with all the billions of traffic cams on the streets in China, at least one police patrol man would have been dispatched to pull that driver over…..

    • anon

      I don’t think he was driving against traffic for an extended period of time for cops to have had time to pull him over. It sounds like he suddenly veered onto the other side of the street and there just happened to be a flock of biking hobbyists there. Can’t really blame the police for this one.

    • Xiongmao

      But,,,but then when would they have time to play with their phones, sleep in their cars and chain smoke? Hadn’t thought about that had you?

  • fabi

    this reminds me of the south park episode.. what an irony ^_^

  • Dr SUN

    A terrible tragedy !!

    Now if I was to cynical, 65 y/o driving a Lexus, either a Govt running dog or the father of one. This is going to cost him a lot in compensation.
    I hope the tax payers of Shangdong are ready to make up for the losses to his savings (stolen money), this is going have on him.

    • jin

      compensation? i hope he compesate for the lifes that got lost with all his money, and then get executed by having the lexus dropped on him.

  • “the elderly offending driver claims he suffers from vertigo”
    More like he suffers from being Chinese…

    “Medical bills for the injured was paid for by a collection taken by the biking club”
    Excuse me, but what the hell is insurance for again…?

    The worst thing about China are cars. There’s no reason why Chinese should ever be able to drive one. Only Laowai deserve the right to drive ;)

    • jin

      are you dumb?

      he got vertigo and still drive, thats called irresponsible.

      insurance only cover a % of the medical costs, not all.

      traffic accidents happens everywhere. are you dumb?

      • Q1: No
        C1: criminally irresponsible. In many developed places he could get jail time. Vehicular manslaughter.
        C2: Insurance is supposed to cover all costs. china isn’t doing it right… of course.
        C2: Accidents do, yes, but not nearly as often as here… Q2: No

        • jin

          C1: More like he suffers from being Chinese…
          C2: not every country covers all cost, incase you dont know.
          C2: oh really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

          • Ray

            If all chinese drove on the wrong way wouldn’t that make it the right way?

            Also thats a list of fatalities, doesn’t account for all road accidents only deaths.

            But ofcourse traffic accidents happen everywhere (with traffic).

          • Eddie Spaghetti

            So lets take a few examples from ‘developed’ countries:

            UK – 7 deaths per 100’000 vehicles per year
            USA – 15 deaths per 100’000 vehicles per year
            Germany – 7.2 deaths per 100’000 vehicles per year
            Australia – 8 deaths per 100’000 vehicles per year.
            Japan – 6.8 deaths per 100’000 vehicles per year.

            And China? 445.9 deaths per 100’000 vehicles per year (not including those hushed up, of which there are likely to be many)

            So statistically, you’re 30 times more likely to be killed by a car in China than in the USA and 60 times more likely than in the other examples. Still at least you’re ‘safer’ than f*cking Uganda.

          • jin

            but if you look at the Road fatalities per capita, then its not that high.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traffic_related_deaths_-_Road_fatalities_per_capita.svg

          • Chad

            Eddie_Spaghetti: Wow, how stupid are you? Is it not a coincidence that the countries with the highest safety standards have less motor-related fatalities?

          • moop

            @Jin, road fatalities per capita is a useless figure in this argument, or really any argument really, its not a very meaningful or significant statistic. china may have 1.3 billion people, but they only have 100 million or so cars. There are 250 million in the US. That is why the number of fatalities per 100k is more significant. road fatalities per capita is a smokescreen. its a clown figure bro

          • Eddie Spaghetti

            Yeah, thanks for clearing that up. I’d foolishly assumed that the thought of doing any analysis based on per-capita deaths in a country where car ownership levels are comparatively small would be blindingly obvious, but clearly not.

            And Chad, I’m assuming that’s biting sarcasm. If not, you’re clearly missing my point, which is that China, despite having road traffic laws, the same as everyone else, fails to enforce them to any noticeable degree in comparison to a ‘safe’ country and hence is a more lethal country when cars are involved.

          • jin

            yes moop, new chinese drivers are reckless and irresponsible.
            but that doesnt mean you can generalize all chinese drivers to be the same. and because china got 1.4billion people, once a traffic accident happen, more people dies.

          • moop

            “1.4billion people, once a traffic accident happen, more people dies.”

            no, it doesnt. just because there are more people in the country doesnt mean there are more people in each car. not exactly a lot of minivans in china.

          • Chad

            eddie: I got your point. Frankly, it’s completely idiotic because you don’t seem to consider the fact that motor fatalities are going to be much higher in countries with lower safety standards for their cars. Come on, now the logic is simple. Fatalities in the US has been dropping for many decades now generally despite little change in motor laws and increasingly crowded roads.

          • jin

            what i mean with that is, more pedestrians.

          • Eddie Spaghetti

            Chad, I’d take your point more seriously if you didn’t accuse me of being an idiot as your opening line.

            Your point is valid, China does have lower safety standards for its cars, it also has a large number (possibly a majority) of imported Japanese, european and American cars, which are built to those higher standards. I agree the maintenance is almost certainly less strictly enforced, but this is just another aspect of the same problem – improper regulation of traffic law, of which vehicle safety is almost certainly included.

    • DRaY

      Chinese are very impolite drivers, but I never see many bad car/car accidents, I see many car/person accidents. I am amazed by the level of control they have over their vehicles. Most of the times I have seem people killed by cars in China It was the pedestrian not paying attention and getting nailed by the car. I have seen it countless times. Most car/car collisions I have witnessed ended with minimal to no damage and 2 idiots standing on the street arguing for 2 hours about nothing. Where are in the US i have seen hundreds of fatal car/car crashes driving on i95 alone, but not so many pedestrians being hit, but I pass memorials on the side of the streets everywhere in America. ….. Im sure China has more deaths overall, but the Percentage of deaths in America must be much higher than China.

  • Notice the car in the second video is driving, perhaps passing, in the bike lane. Hahaha! What a cuntry!

  • statis

    A few years ago, George Russell Weller did something similar when he drove through the farmers’ market in Santa Monica, California. Killed 10 people and injured dozens more. It was an accident, but he was in his late 80s so he just paid a fine and got probation.

    So yes… this could happen anywhere.

    • Old people and Chinese shouldn’t drive. It’s not natural…

    • Anus Presley

      Except in America people don’t drive cars and motorbikes on the pavements (sidewalks) as a matter of course, along with driving on the wrong side of the road, and every other kind of stupidity you can think of relating to traffic regulations, as they do in China.

      I see this shit everyday here in China. It’s not a global phenomenon, it’s a Chinese phenomenon.

      • anon

        You haven’t been around the globe much, have you?

        • El Puma R.

          I have. and I’ve never been so concerned for my safety as I am since I came to China.

          I’ll put it in other words. Some friends say I’m a real bad ass because I longboard in the streets of Changchun (where they make ALL cars for all China). So you can picture what it is like.

          I’m glad I’ve got my helmet.

          Something else that also concerns me is .. same old same old: What does the government people do with their time? (we know. They only eat, drink and spend other people’s money) Are they EVER going to at least try to make things better? (No, they’re not. why? go back to the first question.). Should these things keep happening until people start to lose their minds and start killing each other? Yes, they should, and they are happening.

          Where I live is complete madness in the streets… and my gf wonders why I don’t like to go out.

          my friend said something interesting the other day… Chinese people can’t live without the noise, the dirt, and the chaos !

          • anon

            There’s no way for me to sure since we’re all anonymous individuals on the internet but most people who have traveled to a lot of the developing world don’t unapologetically make the blatantly prejudiced comments you’ve made on this site. Therefore, I’m not inclined to believe you.

            It is strictly laughable to think driving on the sidewalk, on the opposite side of the road, or other traffic/driving related stupidity is a uniquely “Chinese” phenomenon. There is just no way anyone who has had any legitimate experience in other developing or third world nations (which, remember, is the vast majority of the globe) would ever say such a thing. It’s about as stupid as saying smoking, spitting, or even corruption is a Chinese phenomenon. Our Western developed first-world countries are NOT “the world”, people.

          • jin

            hey Pussy are you Anus??? wow…
            pussy, youre just full of hate, you dont go out much cause you dont have any friends. well i know plenty of chinese people that can live without the noise, dirt and chaos. then i can say this too!! white people cant live without the racism, the cheap stuff made in china, the fatfood

          • El Puma R.

            I’ve read your comments too… and I’m sorry, Mr. “I’m always Right”. I’ll say it again… I’VE NEVER BEEN SO CONCERNED FOR MY SAFETY AS I AM SINCE I CAME TO CHINA, in every little aspect. In summer season in Argentina we have around 15 deaths per day in traffic accidents, but NONE are for driving in the opposite sidewalk. And no one, absolutely NO ONE, gets away with a “vertigo ” excuse. I get by just by knowing I’m an experienced driver. Don’t like what I have to say? tough cookie. Do yourself a favor, get out of your office and take a walk outside sanlitun, or wherever you may live within those four wonderful walls of yours, man. Just open your eyes and see that people is just people, with thoughts and feelings just like yours, no matter their age or their excuses. Inclined to believe me ? Believe is a strong word, Mr. “I’m always right and I use big words too”, do you need to believe someone who posts here? you have issues bro, and I don’t need to use diminishing adjectives. I speak from my own experience and not from what I hear from other people, neither pretending I’m some kind of analyst. You should be more meticulous with your concepts next time, I am sure you can.

            As for Jin, he’s got a tiny little wiener and he uses his “strong character” to make up for it. It’s called inferiority complex.

          • jin

            the way you talk shit is exactly like anus,
            did i say something about your “I’VE NEVER BEEN SO CONCERNED FOR MY SAFETY AS I AM SINCE I CAME TO CHINA” ???

            did i say that im aways right? read my comments and you notice that i agree with some stuff, but disagree with some prejudice.
            and i speak from the fact that china is developing, changed alot in 10years. and wow what does my dick got to do with this? are you gay?

  • whiskersthecat

    For you foreigners out there: you’re not a real China Hand until you’ve been run over a few times. I, personally, was hit twice by motorcycles while well on the sidewalk and once by a car while riding my bike in the bicycle lane. All three were hit-and-runs, but I was fine in all situations (bruises and scratches). I know you guys would be extremely worried, knowing that I had been in accidents, so I just wanted to let you know that I am fine. Thank you for your concern.

    • Boris

      It pays to have nine lives.

    • linette

      …………was hit twice by motorcycles …………

      wow…you do have nine lives.

      • whiskersthecat

        I have six lives now.

    • Nick in Beijing

      Similar situation. Twice by cars, and twice by motorcycles (for cars it would be much higher if you count little bumps when cars try to squeeze past you on sidewalks, and crowded intersections where they try to push through the pedestrians crossing the street while the car is making a right hand turn).

      Only difference is once in each instance the driver tried to demand I pay him something for any perceived damage his vehicle took.

      • whiskersthecat

        My car incident was a full-on rolling up on the hood of it. When I hopped off, the guy waved in a “sorry” manner and drove off. Bike was broken, too. I managed to escape with just scratches on my knee and shoulder.

        The motorcycles both were literally motorcycles just running into my back. Those were more painful.

    • Xiongmao

      I take EXTREME care when venturing into Chinese traffic so the only time I got hit was while walking on a pedestrian street and some woman on her e-bike rammed my leg. It would have been worse had I not heard her in the last second, turned and grabbed her bars. I still don’t fucking get why she could have missed seeing a 186 cm, 90 kilos foreigner right in front of her, but you know, that’s China.

  • Alex L

    Maybe he is Gang Li’s father.

  • I dont speak american. Shame, because I didnt understand the comments. Fauna, please translate into English in the future. Thank you.

  • Shanghairen

    Where is Shangdong?

    • Anus Presley

      John’s probably just been singing Carpenters songs in a K.T.V and his heads all filled up with shing-a-ling-a-lings, and shang-a-long-a-shangdongs.

  • Ronald

    WHO GAVE VEHICLES TO THIS ANIMALS?

  • Roger

    Us chinese need to obey traffic laws

    Also, old people should be retested regularly

    • El Puma R.

      You’re right !

      For those who don’t know:

      Chinese Traffic Laws.

      1.- Have money.
      2.- Have more money than the person driving next to you.
      3.- If you don’t have or don’t want to spend money, just hit and run will do.
      4.- Government officials don’t need to compensate for any damage and their assassin children get automatic bail and no criminal record.
      5.- Having money can also get you car plates with all the 8’s you want.

      Chinese must respect this laws.

  • Anus Presley

    “This whole thing is really an unintentional accident…Nowadays, there are more and more clubs. Group activities like this really need to be more careful.”

    “…it was an accident, nothing you can do.”

    Holy Mother of 12 bastards!! He was driving on the wrong side of the road!! These comments sum up what is wrong with the attitudes of so many people in China.
    If you break the traffic rules – such as driving on the wrong side of the fucking road! – then there’s a good chance people will be injured or killed. This is why China has the highest per capita number of traffic fatalities in the World every year.

    • jin

      are you dumb?
      he got vertigo, incase you dont know what it is, google it.
      and pls dont make up shit.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

      • Anus Presley

        Am I dumb? Are you suggesting people don’t drive on the wrong side of the road, and break every other traffic rule, every day in every town and city in this country? The driver said he got vertigo. How does that excuse it, or excuse all of the other accidents in China every day caused by basic stupidty? I counted 100 traffic accidents in my first two years in this country, and I don’t even drive. Those were just accidents I saw whilst walking down the street. The majority of drivers in this country are dangerous fucking idiots.

        And as for making shit up…

        China reports highest road accident death rate in world
        PTI Mar 21, 2008
        http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-03-21/china/27741056_1_road-accident-motor-vehicles-death

        • jin

          In the US, about 70 to 80 people die every day due to accidents related to alcohol.
          http://www.articlesbase.com/cars-articles/the-worlds-worst-drivers-car-accident-statistics-from-around-the-world-609862.html

          oh really? it sure doesnt say that here.
          http://www.safecarguide.com/exp/statistics/statistics.htm
          anyone notice the hate? they compare continents to china and india.

          • El Puma R.

            Jin

            US – 70 people per day.

            China – 600 people per day. (and nobody gives a fuck while someone is dead on the sidewalk). You only talk shit about other countries nd you hate when other people see what happens in China.

            What’s your point? Oh I know… keep hiding the dust under the carpet, you fucking hypocritical murderous heartless ape.

          • jin

            are you blind or just plain stupid? El pussy.

            accidents related to alcohol.
            get it? ill just not explain anything to a dry pussy.
            and where did you get the number 600 from?
            oh really? did i talk shit about other countries? when?

            “What’s your point? Oh I know… keep hiding the dust under the carpet, you fucking hypocritical murderous heartless ape.”

            oh wow, youre soo bad!!! im hurt……..
            what dust? dust coming from you? hypocrit? muderous? heartless? ape? coming from you???

        • anon

          It’s an accident because he crossed over into oncoming traffic after losing control. Maybe you can blame the original posts for not making it crystal clear but I thought it was obvious that the old man was driving on the right side of the road one minute, and then the next minute somehow lost control (which he blames on vertigo) and crossed over onto the the other side of traffic where he proceeded to hit a bunch of bike riders. If was was joyriding on around town on against traffic, there would’ve been a lot more comments about that.

          Jin wasn’t suggesting people don’t break traffic rules or drive in a dangerous fashion in China. He was questioning your read of what happened.

        • jin

          remember when you said this?
          “This is why China has the highest per capita number of traffic fatalities in the World every year.”

          this is the bullshit you said, which is not true.

          • El Puma R.

            DUH !

            it is !

            for 2 reasons:

            1.- Most populated country of the world.
            2.- Most populated with idiots behind a steering wheel country of the world.

          • jin

            EL pussy wtf do you know?
            “1.- Most populated country of the world.
            2.- Most populated with idiots behind a steering wheel country of the world.”

            1. true? so what? that means what?
            2. that would be india you dipshit

            if you know nothing, just dont talk.

      • Anus Presley

        http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/12/content_322695.htm
        Road accidents kill 300 a day in China
        (Shanghai Star)
        2004-04-12

        Latest research shows that every day in China at least 300 people are killed in traffic accidents, ranking the country top in the world for both the death toll and the death rate. And the figure is accelerating by 10 per cent every year.

        • linette

          China at least 300 people are killed in traffic accidents, ranking th…….

          Maybe such a high rate is not only due to bad crazy driving but also poor traffic rules and road defects. Like how the roads are set up and intersection are designed. And so many people biking along side the busy car lanes. NO?
          I see videos on youtube and those roads are no joke. I would be afraid to drive in China. I don’t know when or how I can turn when there are like people walking everywhere and cars turning on every directions. If I made one wrong turn is not because I am a bad crazy driver. It is just bad traffic rules and poor road defect.

          • Anus Presley

            linette: “Maybe such a high rate is not only due to bad crazy driving but also poor traffic rules and road defects…”

            http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/12/content_322695.htm
            ‘…The most important factor was still the negligence of drivers. Statistics showed that last year some 78.5 per cent of the deaths, about 86,000 people, were caused by improper driving.

            Punishment for negligent drivers is said to be too lenient due to a failure of the relevant laws to catch up with current conditions.’

          • jin

            anus, yes some chinese drive wild. but you dont need to feed false news or old news to people

        • jin

          yes anus,

          LATEST = 2004 :) thats funny.
          “And the figure is accelerating by 10 per cent every year.”
          proof please.

          http://www.safecarguide.com/exp/statistics/statistics.htm
          they compare continents to china and india. LOL

      • Anus Presley

        http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/12/content_322695.htm
        ‘…The most important factor was still the negligence of drivers. Statistics showed that last year some 78.5 per cent of the deaths, about 86,000 people, were caused by improper driving.

        Punishment for negligent drivers is said to be too lenient due to a failure of the relevant laws to catch up with current conditions.’

        • jin

          Chinese drivers are getting better. Statistics for 2009show that 67,759 people died on the road in China, a 7.8 percent decline over the previous year. In 2008, 73,484 people died in road accidents, 304,919 were injured in 265,204 road accidents. Compared to 2007, there 10 percent fewer deaths, 20 percent fewer injuries and 19 percent fewer accidents. Traffic accidents killed 107,000 people, nearly 300 a day, in 2004. A total of 89,455 people were killed in road accidents in 2006, about 245 every day, down 9.4 percent from 2005. Out of the total 76,000 were caused by speeding, drunk driving and other violations. By contrast 48,443 people were killed in traffic accidents in the United States in 2006.

          its getting less every year.

          • Anus Presley

            Hey Jin, care to respond to the following?:

            http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-01/07/content_11808453.htm
            Study: China traffic deaths higher than police say
            2011-01-07
            Traffic deaths in China are far higher than what police have been reporting, a new study says, in a significant finding for the world’s largest auto market.

            Traffic accidents are the leading cause of death for people age 45 and younger in China. But what looked like a drop in traffic deaths reported by police over a recent five-year period doesn’t reflect reality, suggests the new study, partly funded by the Chinese government.

            The China Automotive Technology Research Center said last year that traffic deaths dropped 28 percent from 2004 to 2009, with 67,000 deaths in 2009.

            But American and Chinese researchers questioned how such numbers could be accurate. In 2006, they note in the study, the 6.8 per 100,000 death rate reported by China was far lower than in other developing and middle-income countries, which typically register around 21.5 and 19.5 deaths per 100,000, respectively.

            The study’s researchers, from Johns Hopkins and China’s Central South University, compared police data with death certificates from doctors logged between 2002 and 2007. They found that police statistics showed a 27 percent decrease in traffic fatalities, while those recorded on death certificates increased by 8 percent.

            In 2007, for instance, police logged 81,649 deaths, compared to 221,135 listed on death certificates, said the study, whose findings were released this week.

            http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2811%2961153-7/fulltext
            Uncertainty clouds China’s road-traffic fatality data

            Zhengguo Wang, president-elect of the International Traffic Medicine Association, dismisses the MPS data and the downward trend in fatalities that they indicate, especially in view of China’s rapid motorisation. “If what the MPS boasts is true, it would indeed be called a ‘Chinese miracle’.” Because the State Council has designated those figures as official, he must quote them whenever he speaks, but he always adds a footnote stating that the actual numbers could be higher. Gonghuan Yang, former deputy director of China’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention, also acknowledges their inaccuracy. “Both of us and the MPS know that their data have flaws and wouldn’t bear scrutiny”, she told The Lancet.
            The inaccuracies may be due, in part, to deliberate under-reporting by traffic officers, who are rewarded with a higher performance ranking if fewer accidents occur within their jurisdictions. Guoqing Hu, who co-authored the 2011 article in the Bulletin of the WHO, says this conflict of interest might discourage the officers from accounting for all accident victims. “It’s possible that they don’t want to report the real numbers; otherwise they would receive criticism from the central government for poor management.” Guohua Li, a professor of epidemiology at Columbia University, New York, NY, USA, agrees: the under-reporting is a product of misplaced incentives in local police bureaus rather than deliberate obfuscation by the national government. “I don’t think this is a government policy—I assume the central government actually wants to get accurate and reliable data, but now the practice is out of their control.”

          • El Puma R.

            dude if 70K people died in my country in a year, we’d call it genocide.

            Jin please stop commenting. You’re a moron.

          • jin

            so what if its inaccurate? it doesnt mean that the death rates are getting lower every day.

            “while those recorded on death certificates increased by 8 percent.”

            who knows how these people in the death certificates died, maybe these corpses fell off a truck.

            more than two-thirds of traffic fatality victims in China are vulnerable road users: pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorcyclists.
            meaning that wenever one irresponsible shit driver have a accident, they take 2-3 pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorcyclists with them.

    • jin: Are you seriously on here arguing China doesn’t have crazy drivers? The reason the rate of road deaths is low is because in most of China people do not have cars… yet. If car ownership rates were equal to a developed country, China would have the highest rate. That’s why the death rate per 100,000 cars is a much more valid statistic for comparison at the present time.

      I remember when no one in my neck of the woods owned cars, it was a much safer place to be.

      The main problem with Chinese drivers is that 100% of them do not know how to drive. Most of the drivers you see on the road in China got a drivers license never having ever driven on an actual road and had their so-called instructor come to the written test and feed them the correct answers.

      If a developed country did this, we’d have the same kind of retarded driving there, but in developed countries, most people have at least half a brain and we decided that having real tests and requiring people to really pass them was better than the Chinese way. In the developed world, human life is valued. A Chinese life ain’t worth anything it seems. Go China!

      • Brett Hunan

        “The main problem with Chinese drivers is that 100% of them do not know how to drive. Most of the drivers you see on the road in China got a drivers license never having ever driven on an actual road and had their so-called instructor come to the written test and feed them the correct answers.”

        These crass generalizations are not even relevant to this story. Don’t be a buffoon. The old man has (claims to, anyways) vertigo. This case was simply an accident, unless you believe all Chinese people hit random objects and then swerve into oncoming traffic in order to find the opposite side’s bike lane.

        • @ Brett: He’s lying. Chinese always lie to save face. Admitting he was doing something wrong is beyond his capabilities. Maybe, if he were clever, he’d say the “accident was caused by lightening”? lol!

          As for the driver’s licence generalizations, it is generally true. It was only a few years ago that driver training and testing started to be done on roads instead of in parking lots with a course painted on the pavement. As for the written test, until a few years ago as well, your “instructor” could come into the test with you and tell you the answers. All my Chinese friends past the test in this way.

          • Roger

            you are an idiot. the drivers test in china is much more difficult to pass and encompasses more driving skills than the one in america.

            the problem is that in china nobody follows rules after they get their license.

          • @ Roger: Hahahaha! Sure buddy.

          • jin

            youre just a hater, guess this gives you a reason to bash china?
            the old man got vertigo and killed 5 people and you think that everyone in china drive like this? no they fucking dont.

            “As for the written test, until a few years ago as well, your “instructor” could come into the test with you and tell you the answers. All my Chinese friends past the test in this way.”

            proof please, words from a hater isnt a fact.

      • jin

        WAIT when did i ever say that china doesnt have crazy drivers.
        lol? go to developed cities in china, you will see plenty of cars.
        yes they drive crazy, but i guess that depend from city to city, come to fuzhou, theres less crazy drivers here. but also almost no foreigners lol.
        in america the car accident fatility by alcohol is 26% of chinas total death rate.

      • anon

        How is jin arguing that China doesn’t have crazy drivers? That’s not what he’s arguing.

        A developed country by definition has gone through development. A better comparison between a developed country and China is to compare when they are most comparable. Oversimplified, you should be comparing a developing country to a developing country. That means, in this case, trying to control for all the variables that would affect how people drive and behave around vehicles.

        When cars first spread through the societies of what you consider developed countries today, those societies also experienced a lot of vehicle-related accidents and fatalities as well as what we today would consider poor driving skills and traffic behavior. The reason things are better in those countries today is precisely because they’ve gone through that period of development, or do you think modern driving rules, laws, training, and norms in those countries popped up overnight the moment a car popped up in those countries?

        Cars are still relatively new to China, meaning cars haven’t been as ubiquitous to the Chinese as they have been to most developed countries. Only in the past generation have more and more common people actually been able to afford cars. Most of the people who are driving now do not have parents who drive. They don’t have the history of driving. They didn’t grow up with well-established and well-entrenched notions of how motor vehicles ought to be operated. The cities are better than the countryside. Why? Because the cities have more exposure, experience, and history with cars, so city drivers tend to be better than freewheelers. We might not think much of China’s city drivers but you can’t deny they’re on a whole better than those out in the middle of nowhere. If you can understand that, then you can understand the reasons why China drivers are likely to be different (less developed if you will) than drives in developed countries with much more experience with cars and vehicle traffic.

        You’re eager to compare proper statistics, but you should be eager to compare proper circumstances. What you’re doing is comparing incidences of scraped knees between a 5 year old and a 25 year old. It’s not comparable. The statistics will naturally be skewed because the circumstances are different for the two.

        This isn’t to say that China doesn’t have less enforcement of the rules on its books, but these things aren’t as simple as you want them to be. There are a wide variety of factors that influence why things are the way they are. Saying this is the “Chinese way” is an intellectual cop out. You’re literally choosing to be stupid, if not just giving into your base racial prejudices. This has less to do with “Chinese” than it has with “developing”.

        If you have the means, please travel the world and visit some more developing countries who don’t have decades of ubiquitous car ownership and you’ll see very similar things as you see in China. It isn’t that these people in these countries don’t value life. They just haven’t finished learning the lessons that the developed world went through decades to even a century ago. Our developed countries weren’t much better when we were first grasping with the growing amount of cars on the road. We had to have a lot of accidents and tragic deaths before we started thinking we better take licensing and traffic enforcement more seriously.

        Have some perspective.

        • Nick in Beijing

          Stupid point of your argument assumes that China has to go through the same learning pains that (for example) the U.S. did.

          Same thing as with their economic “miracle”. They have the benefit of other countries having gone through the pains of developing a workable system. All they need to do is copy and paste.

          Instead they prefer to add “Chinese characteristics”.

          In this case “Chinese characteristics” means ridiculously dangerous driving. Maybe the guy did have vertigo, but as already mentioned it is illegal for him to have a drivers license at all if he has vertigo. This is irresponsible. In other words ridiculously bad driving.

          I’m not saying only Chinese old folks with vertigo who continue driving are stupid, but that certainly doesn’t make him less stupid. Beyond the the environment of stupidity that he is operating in likely didn’t do much to discourage him from driving around.

          Another ridiculous point is the whole “developing country” garbage.

          Developing countries don’t gain the title of a luxury car producer’s biggest single market.

          The only thing developing about China is the psychology. All the rest is a the result of rampant corruption and ignorance.

          • jin

            nicky, think of it this way.
            chinese people get a new toy called cars, they want to go wild on it.
            Chinese drivers are getting better. Statistics for 2009show that 67,759 people died on the road in China, a 7.8 percent decline over the previous year. In 2008, 73,484 people died in road accidents, 304,919 were injured in 265,204 road accidents. Compared to 2007, there 10 percent fewer deaths, 20 percent fewer injuries and 19 percent fewer accidents. Traffic accidents killed 107,000 people, nearly 300 a day, in 2004. A total of 89,455 people were killed in road accidents in 2006, about 245 every day, down 9.4 percent from 2005. Out of the total 76,000 were caused by speeding, drunk driving and other violations. By contrast 48,443 people were killed in traffic accidents in the United States in 2006.

            notice the different? car accidents get lower and lower every single year. so what you mean with “Chinese characteristics” is ridiculously dangerous driving? how about all those car chase in america? are they “Chinese characteristics”??? how about that in america 70-80 people die daily cause of driving after having alcohol? are they “Chinese characteristics”??? and cause there are more millionairs in china now, they can affort those luxury cars http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-31/china-s-millionaires-jump-past-one-million-on-savings-growth.html
            biggest problem in china is the traffic laws, they are not strict enough.

          • anon

            Yes, the old “you should learn from our mistakes” argument. Have you forgotten the common saying that people will only learn through their own mistakes? That people sometimes will only learn from experience? It applies here. If humans could perfectly learn from the mistakes of others, we’d be a lot more evolved today with a lot less strife in the world.

            The title of being the largest single market for luxury car producers doesn’t change the fact that China is still a developing nation in so many other regards. There’s this thing called holding two thoughts in your head, try it sometime. Or would you strip the United States of being considered a “civilized” nation because it still has capital punishment?

            The only thing ridiculous is your resistance to reason and rationality to defend your prejudices and contempt. Understanding why things are the way they are is not justification for why things are the way they are. It’s merely the first step for figuring out how to improve upon them. One must understand the problem before they can hope to solve it.

            Of course, perhaps you don’t care for China to solve it. Perhaps you’re just happy sitting on the sidelines looking down your nose judging them with contempt. That’s your choice, as it is my choice to call you on it.

            In this case, yes, we can say the psychology of mixing cars with people is developing in China. As I said, we had to figure it out ourselves. China no doubt adopted much of the rules and laws other developed nations have evolved over their own history, but changing people’s behaviors is a lot harder and takes a lot more time than it is to simply copy laws. Since you’re familiar with common China tropes, surely you’ve heard the hardware vs. software one? You know, like China being able to erect gleaming skyscrapers but can’t get customer service down? Likewise, China can bring in cars, but it’ll take time for their drivers and driving culture to get up to the same level as societies with a lot more driving experience under their collective belts. You can teach soldiers the horrors of war but will they truly understand it until they’ve seen their comrade in arms dying IN their arms?

            Be realistic. As a grown man, surely you’ve learned things the hard way before. We all have, no matter how good our parents were, or perhaps because our parents were smart enough to know we sometimes have to and hold it against us.

          • anon

            Sorry, that should be “and DIDN’T hold it against us.”

          • jin

            oh wait im wrong.
            2012: China has 189 billionaires – China’s billionaires rose by 69 to 189 this year, according to the Hurun Rich List 2010 Tuesday

          • An anonymous boy…

            Nick, you can’t make the assumption that everything that is wrong with China is caused by a few factors. Or that is even the case here. The immediate reason for many of their problems is their growing pains which are caused by many factors including economic growth, culture, rapid development, psychology, corruption, education, deep-seated beliefs, etc.

            The onset of the problem with vehicular fatalities was caused immediately by the rapid expansion number of driven cars over the last decades. This is obvious. However, the government was far to slow to respond to the boom of drivers and enact safety laws.

            These laws have lowered the number of deaths over the years, but deep-seated beliefs in driving the way people always had coupled with the challenge of policing due to the number of drivers have not made it as effective as it could be be. Of course you have to factor in corruption: police officers under report accidents so their districts look better which makes it appear like less cops are needed. And probably many other things.

            But if you wanted to generalize it, you could just say China is developing.

        • Brett Hunan

          “comparing scraped knees”. Hah nice one anon.

        • moop

          i agree and disagree. driving in china is going to continue to get better, but i still think that once the improvement tapers off, they are still going to have one of the highest if not the highest accident rates in the world. there really isnt that much difference between the way most chinese ride their bikes or drive their cars and they’ve been riding bikes for like 100 years, hell sometimes the people walk here with reckless abandon. i rarely see people give way on the road or sidewalks. how many 电动车,三轮,and push bikes have you seen run a red light and cause/almost cause an accident? rule of law and heftier fines may be of some befefit. hitting people in the wallet normally does.

          • jin

            107,000 people, nearly 300 a day, in 2004
            65,200 people, around 178 a day, in 2010
            notice the different?

            “they are still going to have one of the highest if not the highest accident rates in the world.”

            they were never the highest accident rate in the world, that would be india. if you look at the rates from 2004 and 2010, you would notice that theres a big difference, they learn from these traffic accidents.

          • anon

            Right, I’m not saying China is necessarily going to have the exact same incidences of traffic problems as other developed countries once the level of development is more similar because there are many other factors that will likely remain different, such as sheer population, population density, and traffic infrastructure.

            With regards to things like right of way, there’s a reason why developed countries have to hammer into people’s heads that pedestrians have right of way, because as with most things in nature, people default to the path of least resistance, and that includes giving way when something much larger than you challenges you for the same spot of ground. Population density is also a major factor in whether or not people give way. Every crowd (including traffic) has an element of every man for themselves to it, and there are a LOT of crowds (and traffic) in China. Any increase of actors in a system increases the inherent chaos in the system. China has a lot of actors.

            China’s leaders have adopted time-tested principles and rules from other countries, but education and enforcement is lacking. You have to teach the driving instructors and the police the importance of the rules before they will teach it to their students and the people they are to police. Just as it is hard to teach the people, its also hard to teach the people who would be teachers to others. It has to start somewhere, and it’ll take time to proliferate an iterate. That’s what development is. It can’t happen fast enough for those of us accustomed to where we’re from, but there’s no avoiding it.

            We’re like rich uptown kids looking down on the people in the slums for not having the same refined manners we have. It’s a bit unfair and all for what should be very obvious reasons if any of us have had the benefit of a liberal Western education that taught concepts like critical thinking.

          • linette

            I don’t know how to ride a bike. :(
            I need to go learn.

            hehehe……I know. It has nothing to do with the discussion. I don’t know why I just feel like mentioning.

          • xiaohouzi

            I agree, Moop. If the cops would only grow some and enforce the laws that are made to protect people. Make thugs pay until it hurts and they will think twice about breaking traffic laws again.

          • xiaohouzi

            86,000 road deaths a year? Who ever decided people should drive cars was a good idea? Must have been the same bozo who decided smoking was good for your lungs. Now if we can just figure out how to make driving and smoking really uncool. Any ideas? I often imagine monkeys driving cars and smoking, trying to look cool and that makes me laugh a bit but how can i get those ideas out there to society so they can see how stupid they look?

  • Jay K.

    shandong* province

    seems to be China’s Florida for elderly drivers?

    • xiaohouzi

      That’s what i was saying… but i don’t think it’s so much the elderly. I think it’s more to do with thuggish showoffs being backward, lawless and just stupid.

  • Appalled@everything

    how does someone find the audacity to stand there taking photos when clearly people need medical attention or to be at least covered up to prevent others looking at their remains indignantly? Oh yeah, indignant is synonymous for Chinese, U forgot.

    • Anus Presley

      They weren’t related to him, so he didn’t give a shit.

      This is the Chinese way. It’s been like that for a long time, and was noted by the writer Lu Xun at the turn of the 20th Century. Unless the person in need of help is a friend or relative, then they are irrelevant. Case in point is the 2 year old run over in a market in Guangzhou last year, when a dozen people just walked past and did fuck all.

      • Appalled@everything

        Thank you of reminding me of little YueYue. I almost had a day without being reminded of the truly despicable heart’s that dwell inside most Chinese. Actually, I’m just saying that. I NEVER go a day without being reminded of that.

        • xiaohouzi

          Someone has to try harder to educate these kinds of people. I do all i can do short of being arrested and deported. The world doesn’t need more animals like these.

        • Anus Presley

          Maybe my comment above was a bit harsh. You really can’t paint all people in this, or any other country, with the same brush.
          I’ve found that Chinese people in general are more friendly than people back in England. But the whole bystander thing is weird. Not that people in the West aren’t guilty of having a herd mentality, but these incidents such as the YueYue thing in Guangzhou are pretty extreme.

  • moop

    oh dat’s word. on a side note. i just found out something i didnt know: in switzerland all males are required to maintain a firearm until they turn 30 by law. anyone have any experience with this?

    • Boris

      Yeah, I had a hippy friend who caught three months there for swerving his national service. But the skinheads in his town all have shooters.

  • Rick in China

    So many cars driving by…. so FEW people stopping to help….or I suppose in China, stopping to gather like a gawking crowd and film. Fuck. If I saw that shit I’d be compelled to. (help, not film)

  • Kill Him.

    They should kill him and make an example of him. I’m sick of these rich old fucks driving on the wrong side of the road honking their horns at people driving on the right side of the road.

  • simon

    sad situation, but i wonder how many of them were wearing helmets?

    • simon

      just saw the end of the video, looks like some had helmets.

      the old man should be shot.

      • Kill Him.

        I agree, I’m sick of being honked at by morons driving on the wrong side of the road. I really hope they make an example of this moron.

        • xiaohouzi

          Well said, Kill Him. Drivers in Qingdao are so annoying the way they honk their horns at everything. No wonder my stress level is so high with all the traffic noise and terrible drivers. Now reading this makes me want to stick to the crowded sidewalks which were not designed for cyclists nor cars but they park there anyway. China still has a long way to go. And the question about how many were wearing helmets must be a joke. What difference does it make when a maniac is behind the wheel of a lethal weapon? A helmet won’t do a damn bit of good up against a car going that fast.

    • Helmets won’t save you from death son, just slight injuries. Bike helmets are designed for crashes of no more than 20 km/hr with blunt objects. A situation unlikely to cause death. Being plowed into by a Lexus at 50 or 60km/hr (or perhaps 100km/hr??? did you see how far the carnage trail was!) and having a helmet save you is impossible.

    • Ryo

      You do realize that you need other parts of your body to live, right? Only thing would of help was a full Iron Man suit.

  • eattot

    。。。
    how i hate these mfs ride on the wrong side…bikes and scooters…once i ride on my bike,see people like this, always wish i were a superman,use my super legs,kick them out on the street,those mfs taix drivers press button loud and drive fast,also should be punished hard.
    also i live on the famous rd of shanghai,some mfs,always driving expensive cars or motorbikes,make super load sound,especially motorbikes,drive like they are just after drug,so annoying….

  • eattot

    once my father wanted to buy a car,i told him, your too old to drive already.

  • Capt. WED

    Man fuck this website. Okay okay there are other places on the internet where you can read about fucked up shit. I occasionally visit here. But I don’t give a fuck about random bikers getting run over. The pictures are depressing (part of the “charm” of this site never censoring shit).

    But man fuck Chinasmack. HAHAHAHA.

    • Brett Hunan

      At least you limited it to 1 post today. Baby steps to recovery!

  • Anus Presley

    Roger: “the drivers test in china is much more difficult to pass and encompasses more driving skills than the one in america.”

    No it isn’t. That’s pure horseshit. The majority of people with driving licenses in China simply paid for them. I know a girl who paid for her license after having taken just two lessons. She doesn’t know the first thing about driving a car, including what the mirrors, or lights are for.
    You only have to spend 10 minutes on any road in China to see that most people haven’t got a fucking clue about how to drive. Nobody in my city has any idea that car headlights have two settings, and that it’s dangerous to drive with your lights on full-beam at night, so everyone drives with their lights on full-beam at night.
    To say that the driving test in China is harder than the test in America is absolute bollocks.

    • xiaohouzi

      Agreed! But full-beam lights at night are better than no headlights as is often the case here in Shandong. I’ve also met people here that have paid for for a license without having any kind of test. Talk about backwards. No wonder so many people die on the roads in China. And some Chinese get so angry when a Chinese person they never met in their life gets killed in a foreign country but look how many Chinese kill each other in their own country. Why don’t they get angry about that too? This problem is a lot more severe in that untold thousands of Chinese are killed on their own roads every year.

  • Li Wen

    I can’t wait to leave this country. 39 more days.

    • Appalled@everything

      I hate you. only because I must stay for at least the rest of the year.

  • angryman

    @Jin, thanks for the laugh, man. Claiming that the driving tests in China are fair and incorruptible.

    Everybody knows they are for sale, everyone has friends/relations/colleagues/done it themselves before. It’s well documented, and you’re either a troll or trying hard to earn your .50.

    Occams razor here – why would drivers licenses not be for sale, when everything else IS?

    • anon

      jin has said a lot of ridiculous comments on this site in the past but I don’t see where he claimed that driving tests in China are fair and incorruptible in this post. The closest he came I think was questioning a claim that “instructors” could go in and feed you answers to written tests.

      If you’re going to take issue with his comments, at least be kind enough to not use a straw man.

    • jin

      when did i claim that the driving test in china are fair and incorruptible???
      yeah you can buy it in china, but thats in rural areas.
      in case you dont know, if you do it the legit way, the theory exam in china is hard.
      http://www.chinacartimes.com/quiz/
      http://www.shenzhenparty.com/answers/chinese-driving-licence-exam-question-ba

      • Anus Presley

        You can buy them in my city. And I don’t live in a rural area. You really need to stop making shit up.

        • jin

          when did i make stuff up? i think youre the one that did this.

      • anon

        It’s not just rural areas. You just need to find the right person. It’s easier in certain areas than others of course.

  • Charles

    Sadly – these accidents will happen everywhere, especially in China where the carelessness that dominates the culture kills so many needlessly. China is such an incredibly self destructive nation. So very sad! I ride long distance regularly… hope I don’t killed like this one day.

  • Charles

    @Jin – Have you ever traveled to the “west?” I am sure China is not alone in this, but driving in this country is an absolute nightmare! The test is also meaningless. I know many Chinese people who have passed the driving test legally and they CANNOT DRIVE!!! Add to their number all those who purchase their license, it would be impossible to get statistics on this, but suffice it to say I know many who have.
    Yet another way that the communist party is completely failing in doing it’s job of running this country. They have established a system of corruption that directly leads to the death of innocent people.

    • jin

      i live in the west… europe.
      charles ever been in the west 30-50 years ago?
      racism was strong, laws werent usefull, streets were ruled by mafia, corruption everywhere. china change too much in 10 years, the people cant follow the changes. give them time.

      chinese people cant drive? its not that they cant drive, its that they ignore the traffic laws that these accidents happen. its called being reckless and irresponsible. do you think its easy to run a country with 1.4billion people?
      and stop corruption with millions government officials? no its not easy.
      and china is still a new country, that need time to catch up with the HUGE changes in the last 10 years.

      • moop

        were you in europe 30-50 years ago?

        • jin
          • moop

            “china change too much in 10 years, the people cant follow the changes. give them time.” so then they havent changed at all? what does this mean? you mean the PRC has changed too much in 10year, but the people haven’t caught up?

            what are these links supposed to prove exactly? Mafia were only dominant in large cities, they werent rampant around the country, and yeah, racism was a problem, but its not illegal to be racist, just like its not illegal to be stupid. what is illegal, at least in most cases, is driving like an asshole and haveing total disregard for other people’s safety. it has nothing to do with the rule of law. mafias gained their power because of too much law (prohibition). you dont need to google anything else, you need to read a book.

          • anon

            His point is that much of what China is like today is like what other countries were in their past, and that’s true.

            Charles made the comparison between China and other countries. Jin is not denying that there is a difference between China today and other countries today. China is playing catch up and people change slower than technology. Change doesn’t happen overnight, it moves forward, sometimes get set back, things happen, history isn’t a straight line.

            Not a single one of these points is controversial. It should be obvious, even common sense. Just what exactly has he said here that is outrageous? Him acknowledging that people in China ignore traffic laws? That people in China can be reckless and irresponsible? That its hard governing a country of 1.4 billion people when there is corruption amongst government officials?

            I don’t think China is a new country. It’s 60+ years old if we measure the current political system, but I understand that revolutions and wars can set a country and a society back in many ways. We all remember the Dark Ages, right? Or the Bush Administration? So I understand that China, for all its talk of a long continuous history, is currently behind many other countries in certain aspects of society and development, and its playing catch up. I understand that when society changes quickly, the people do need time to change with it.

            Why are you reacting so unreasonably to these points jin is making, moop? They’re all very reasonable.

          • El Puma R.

            Dude ! you defend China but you live in Europe ?

            My God this world is so generous. I could say so much but… Jin,

            why don’t you kill yourself?

          • jin

            @moop

            me: in the west 30-50 years ago? racism was strong, laws werent usefull, streets were ruled by mafia, corruption everywhere.
            moopie: were you in europe 30-50 years ago?
            me: post links.

            what i mean with “china change too much in 10 years, the people cant follow the changes. give them time.” is very simple, the country changed too fast for the people. its something like giving a iphone 4 to someone that still use the classic nokia. they cant immediatly adapt to the changes

          • jin

            @El pussy R.

            sorry did i say something to piss you off? EL pussy
            did you feel offended by the stuff i said? El pussy
            El pussy, why dont you get penetrated by a hard stick?

          • El Puma R.

            Funny thing is that your answers resemble those who never had an education….or those who paid to pass their exams. Stay in Europe so you can show off with your fake friends, man.
            Suddenly knowing how to use Google makes you smart. Yeah right.

            Puma is a feline native from south America, in North america it’s called Cougar. I’ve had the wonderful and unforgettable chance to run across a few of those in the wild, and let me tell you, you DON’T want to fuck with those. Of course you don’t know much about wildlife since your people has killed everything except the Panda bears. You can call me pussy all you want but something I know is that you, as many other chinese, would never get involved in a fight without having called all their friends first.

            Keep calling me pussy, yes, I might as well be.. but check this out: Mongolians had you scared for many generations and you had to build a wall. Japan fucked you again and again for over 30 years and you needed USA help to help you get them out of China. You get shut down in China for ANY form of protest, regardless of how good your intentions might be. You’ve thrown all the 5000 year knowledge into the trash in exchange for.. gucci, prada, dior, etc… you live in Europe and you drive a western car and you wear western clothes… so tell me.. are you still Chinese? what are you fighting for? now that’s what I call a true pussy right there. Jin, I’d kick your ass any day buddy, and then I’ll pee on your unconscious face to celebrate my victory.
            You yourself mister, have left China, and you’re living a good life in a continent where people is going through a serious economic crisis. A thief, and a pussy.
            How is Chinese people allowed to talk shit about other countries, but we westeners are not allowed to talk about China?

            2 days ago I went to a pet market and there I saw this beautiful and colorful South American “Papagallo” parrot (of course, brought illegally to China). This guy behind me waited for the bird to turn around and smacked it in the back just for his own amusement ( I didn’t find it funny at all), the parrot turned back and started chasing him (parrot had a chain tied to his paw).. the guy ran away in fear. One of my students dared to insult me in class and I threw his books out of the window, he went running to the teachers office, I followed him and he was at the office crying to the headmaster. My other high school students love to watch south park so sometimes (mostly before the Gaokao, to relieve their stress) I spoil them with an episode or two… some of them didn’t like it but instead of telling me (which is totally acceptable, and also an undeniable right they have) , they went STRAIGHT to the headmaster. Now.. I’m cutting them some slack and they do that to me? That’s what I call the true definition of a pussy. And over here it’s cultural, man, it’s fucking cultural !

            Let me tell you, Jin, I’m a man and I have EARNED each and every thing I own (how about you?), and my way of thinking comes from my own experiences, unlike many people in this WORLD who choose to repeat something someone else said.

            I have very good chinese friends and they have to live an average life without a really bright future because they’ve taken their matters into their own hands, without depending on someone else, or without stealing from someone else. So i’m not against Chinese people, I’m against people like YOU.

            Jin, a real pussy is something you haven’t learned to manage yet.
            You see, I seriously doubt you could, with your 3cm of pure stiff chinese dick, so go ahead and wear something expensive because that’s the closest you’ll ever get to be a real man.

          • jin

            what a wall of text EL pussy, yes i did defend china, did you even wonder why?
            this is what charles said.

            Have you ever traveled to the “west?” I am sure China is not alone in this, but driving in this country is an absolute nightmare! The test is also meaningless. I know many Chinese people who have passed the driving test legally and they CANNOT DRIVE!!! Add to their number all those who purchase their license, it would be impossible to get statistics on this, but suffice it to say I know many who have.
            Yet another way that the communist party is completely failing in doing it’s job of running this country. They have established a system of corruption that directly leads to the death of innocent people.

            and i answered him

            i live in the west… europe.
            charles ever been in the west 30-50 years ago?
            racism was strong, laws werent usefull, streets were ruled by mafia, corruption everywhere. china change too much in 10 years, the people cant follow the changes. give them time.

            chinese people cant drive? its not that they cant drive, its that they ignore the traffic laws that these accidents happen. its called being reckless and irresponsible. do you think its easy to run a country with 1.4billion people?
            and stop corruption with millions government officials? no its not easy.
            and china is still a new country, that need time to catch up with the HUGE changes in the last 10 years.

            did i say that theres nothing wrong with china?
            did i say something wrong?
            and this is what you said

            Dude ! you defend China but you live in Europe ?
            My God this world is so generous. I could say so much but… Jin,
            why don’t you kill yourself?

            you suddenly attacked me cause i said something to “defend” china? so? why the hate? whats wrong with you?
            are you being bullied as a english teacher in your school?
            cause you cant handle it when some students says something wrong about foreigners? YOURE A FUCKING TEACHER…
            you dont get mad at them, you explain it. you TEACH THEM.
            you dont fucking throw the book of your student out of the windows. this shows how FUCKED up you are, how shit your life is. i have been working since the age of 16, worked for 8 years now, got my own house and car, earned it myself. so got a problem?

      • jeffli

        JIN,
        Do you think the situation would improve if everyone smiled and said “thats nice” and pretended that an old fart of a man killing 5 people is acceptable?
        that for every 100,000 cars on the road over 400 deaths are inevitable?

        how about I look at you like an idiot and bake you a shit sandwich? Do you smile and eat it and smilingly say “thats nice”?

        cmon guy!
        I wish the right people in China could at least feel a little embarrassed to make some positive changes.

        As for the driver? Well who knows where LiGangs son is, but I think we’ve found where LiGang’s father or uncle was!

        • xiaohouzi

          I agree, Jeff. It would be very difficult to have 100,000 Chinese drivers on the road without any deaths but not impossible if they really cared about others. A much more realistic and environmentally friendly idea, would be to have 100,000 Chinese cyclists on the road and 0 deaths. I often pick up trash some Chinese people throw on the ground in front of me and show them where the nearest trash can is and to my surprise, many of them don’t seem embarrassed at their trashy ignorance or their unconcern for others and the environment. Maybe it’s just a Shandong thing.

        • jin

          ooh we got a bad one here.
          did i ever say that killing 5 people is acceptable?
          this old man has vertigo, and killed 5 people.
          which is irresponsible. but what i comment about is about people that bash a entire country cause some does stupid things.
          so where did i say that ITS OK for the old man to kill 5 people?
          dont make up shit. and since you seems to love shit, eat it yourself.
          what i kept saying all this fking time is that the car accidents in china are decreasing every single fking year. NEVER have i said that its ok for the old man to kill 5 people, or that how the chinese traffic works is fine.

          cmon bitch!
          I wish you people stop bashing a entire country, cause of what some does, or how some think. as you know china is still developing.
          china right now is like how america was 30-50 years ago.

          • Charles

            @ Jin – I agree with this:

            “chinese people cant drive? its not that they cant drive, its that they ignore the traffic laws that these accidents happen. its called being reckless and irresponsible.”

            There are many skilled drivers in China, though there are also a huge number of new drivers with little experience – and they CAN’T drive. Maybe it’s because “car culture” is relatively new here. I don’t know.

            However, have you ever noticed how people always pull out these “too many citizens” arguments when they talk about China. The problem isn’t the number of people – it’s a combination of many things, including a terrible government and a culture that is prone to corruption. I don’t think the Japanese would have a problem running a country the size of China. In fact it might be a lot easier for them, since resources are so plentiful here.

            Also, have you ever notice how China can be 5000+ years old in one breath and then brand new in another? The rapidity of development and the age of the country have almost nothing to do with the problem, IMO.

            As for the “west,” the way you characterize it is absurd. 50 years ago the USA was much more orderly, clean (in some respects) and safer than it is today! The rule of law is nothing new in the West, though you can always point out flaws even today.

            IMO, this is one of the biggest issues. If the CCP could step up and enforce existing law, they could really improve China. They are just too selfish and (actually) too weak to do it.

            Don’t misunderstand me though, I am not saying the West is great and China is bad. The USA has it’s problems, perhaps not as severe as China in some respects, but it is no “city on a hill.”

          • Little Wolf

            “china right now is like how america was 30-50 years ago.”

            As someone that lived in the USA 30-50 years ago that is one of the biggest crocks of shit I have ever seen on these pages ever. (laughs like the scene in ” The Money Pit” where Tom Hanks loses it)

          • mr. wiener

            I’d have said more like America in the 1920’s myself, but I take your point Jin. China has never had a 1960’s [well their 1960’s was the cultural revolution, and that sucked balls] When China does have a huge countercultural movement….that’s gonna be interesting to say the least!!

          • anon

            I’d put you maybe at the low end of 30 years ago, Little Wolf, and only in that you were already alive at that time. The first decade of your life is usually a wash because you’re not old enough to really appreciate much less contribute to the zeitgeist of the times. Your understanding of America 30-50 years ago would thus mostly be from the media, maybe movies like Forrest Gump. Of course, I could be entirely wrong since I don’t really know how old you are. You could be a really young-sounding old geezer for all I know.

            Either way, I’d peg you as someone who came of age in the late 80s or 90s, the MTV generation of sorts, meaning you were born in the 70s or 80s. A generation begins understanding and really shaping and defining an era when they enter their late teens at the earliest, and usually in their 20s when they become the primary bulk of the workforce. Someone personally familiar with American society 30-50 years ago would really be about 50-70 years old today.

            SOME aspects of China today could be compared to America 30-50 years ago, but I think China is more like Japan 30-50 years ago in many other regards. It all depends on what aspect we’re comparing. Are we comparing corruption? Social attitudes towards corruption? Attitudes about race and culture? What exactly? Maturity of car culture, ownership and operation? Pervasiveness of smoking, misogyny, and drunk driving? Pervasiveness of littering? Classism? Nationalism? Exceptionalism?

          • jin

            what i meant with “china right now is like how america was 30-50 years ago.” is the corruption, safety, poor/rich people difference, etc. and little wolf are you 50+ years old now?
            if you were still 1 year old 30-40 years ago. then that means shit.

          • Little Wolf

            jin……you need to go lie down and daydream that anything you say means shit.

            I’ll give you soccer…maybe. That might be something China is only 30-50 years behind. But I’ve never met an American that would give a fuck.

          • jin

            explain to me how this is wolfshit?

            what i meant with “china right now is like how america was 30-50 years ago.” is the corruption, safety, poor/rich people difference, etc. and little wolf are you 50+ years old now?
            if you were still 1 year old 30-40 years ago. then that means shit.

          • Little Wolf

            How the fuck would you know? You can’t just yank things out of your ass and then post them here and expect them to become true. Tell us all your life story and explain what gives you the authority and experience to make this claim. Wikipedia don’t count.

          • jin

            because thats how america was??? back then?
            google around, mafia , government corruption, racism 1960 or 1970 or 1980??? how is hundreds of NEWPAPER reports wikipedia??

    • xiaohouzi

      Very well said, Charles.

    • anon

      Come on, parts of your comment are unfair. I know many people in the West who have passed the driving test and also CANNOT DRIVE in my eyes.

  • xiaohouzi

    政经V新闻:

    “This whole thing is really an unintentional accident. The offending party definitely will definitely take all the blame, but you can’t tell if it’s a DUI or someone acting out specifically against society. The victims had a lot of people gathered on the road at once, and didn’t have any safety plans or protection. The fact that five people got hit at once with these conditions definitely is important to consider. Nowadays, there are more and more clubs. Group activities like this really need to be more careful.”

    Unintentional accident? There are no accidents just a lack of prevention. I find that in China, there seems to be a real lack of prevention. How many people have died like this because someone was careless? More and more cars are out there which is a bad thing. More and more bad drivers too. More and more cycle clubs are out there which is a good thing so the government should finally make bike lanes. Unbelievable when you consider how important bicycles have been in China. In civilized European countries, they’ve had designated bike paths for years. Stop wasting money paying corrupt cadres and give a little back to the citizens who really work or retired folks who want to enjoy their lives in a healthy manner. Finally, it’s the brain dead drivers who need to be careful!!! Bicycles don’t kill when they run into someone but cars sure as hell do!!!

  • xiaohouzi

    Why does it seem like all the bad drivers are in Shandong? Is it true that it’s one of the most backward places in the country? I live in Qingdao and people here don’t drive well at all. They often park on the sidewalks without any concern for pedestrians, let alone wheelchair bound folks and the police don’t do a damn thing.
    On the front page of today’s Qingdao qdqss.cn, there’s a photo of a new bike lane on the other side of the city which is a step in the right direction but i seriously doubt they will build more in the old west side of town where i live. If the Germans were still here, they would have built bike lanes all over the city years ago but the local government cares more about it’s wealthier, car-driving citizens and image.

    • jeffli

      “If the Germans were still here, they would have built bike lanes all over the city years ago but the local government cares more about it’s wealthier, car-driving citizens and image.”

      There ya go +1 for the foreign concession idea. I really believe above statement!
      Just look at HK compared to mainland. while we criticised foreign imperialist ventures in China, actually most of the concessional ports would have been better off as a similar situation as endured/enjoyed by the Honky Tonk brothers and sisters (香港兄弟姐妹)over the last 150 years.

  • xiaohouzi

    Wikipedia says:

    Excessive consumption of ethanol (alcoholic beverages) can also cause notorious symptoms of vertigo.

    And we all know how much men in China like to drink.

  • jin

    ok so before i get flammed by you Homer Simpsons even more, let me put it in short what im trying to say.
    I didnt say that china doesnt have crazy drivers.
    I didnt say that theres nothing wrong with the chinese traffic
    I didnt say that its ok for this to happen.
    I did say that the traffic accidents in china are decreasing every year. in 6 years times the traffic accidents decreased by about 40%.
    I did say that the old man got vertigo, and for this accident to happen isnt a reason to bash entire china.
    I did say that china is still a developing country, that changed too much in 10years, which is too fast for 1.4billion people to catch up.

    how many years did it take european and america to become the modern country as it is today? it didnt happen in 10 years or 20 years. it took much longer.
    how can the mindset is someone that used to lived in a 3rd world country suddenly change? cause the country changed? their children and grandchildren are the ones who will change china. you haters cant think straight cause of the hate and anger inside you.

    • Anus Presley

      http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-01/07/content_11808453.htm
      Study: China traffic deaths higher than police say
      2011-01-07
      Traffic deaths in China are far higher than what police have been reporting, a new study says, in a significant finding for the world’s largest auto market.

      Traffic accidents are the leading cause of death for people age 45 and younger in China. But what looked like a drop in traffic deaths reported by police over a recent five-year period doesn’t reflect reality, suggests the new study, partly funded by the Chinese government.

      The China Automotive Technology Research Center said last year that traffic deaths dropped 28 percent from 2004 to 2009, with 67,000 deaths in 2009.

      But American and Chinese researchers questioned how such numbers could be accurate. In 2006, they note in the study, the 6.8 per 100,000 death rate reported by China was far lower than in other developing and middle-income countries, which typically register around 21.5 and 19.5 deaths per 100,000, respectively.

      The study’s researchers, from Johns Hopkins and China’s Central South University, compared police data with death certificates from doctors logged between 2002 and 2007. They found that police statistics showed a 27 percent decrease in traffic fatalities, while those recorded on death certificates increased by 8 percent.

      In 2007, for instance, police logged 81,649 deaths, compared to 221,135 listed on death certificates, said the study, whose findings were released this week.

      http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2811%2961153-7/fulltext
      Uncertainty clouds China’s road-traffic fatality data

      Zhengguo Wang, president-elect of the International Traffic Medicine Association, dismisses the MPS data and the downward trend in fatalities that they indicate, especially in view of China’s rapid motorisation. “If what the MPS boasts is true, it would indeed be called a ‘Chinese miracle’.” Because the State Council has designated those figures as official, he must quote them whenever he speaks, but he always adds a footnote stating that the actual numbers could be higher. Gonghuan Yang, former deputy director of China’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention, also acknowledges their inaccuracy. “Both of us and the MPS know that their data have flaws and wouldn’t bear scrutiny”, she told The Lancet.
      The inaccuracies may be due, in part, to deliberate under-reporting by traffic officers, who are rewarded with a higher performance ranking if fewer accidents occur within their jurisdictions. Guoqing Hu, who co-authored the 2011 article in the Bulletin of the WHO, says this conflict of interest might discourage the officers from accounting for all accident victims. “It’s possible that they don’t want to report the real numbers; otherwise they would receive criticism from the central government for poor management.” Guohua Li, a professor of epidemiology at Columbia University, New York, NY, USA, agrees: the under-reporting is a product of misplaced incentives in local police bureaus rather than deliberate obfuscation by the national government. “I don’t think this is a government policy—I assume the central government actually wants to get accurate and reliable data, but now the practice is out of their control.”

      • xiaohouzi

        I was hoping Jin could be right but now i have my doubts. I agree that one day, civilization will probably come to China but until then, there are too many bao fa hu monkeys who think they can drive because they got a car.

        • Anus Presley

          I almost got knocked over yesterday by an S.U.V whilst walking to work – on the pavement (sidewalk). Here in my city, drivers not only drive on the wrong side of the road, but they drive cars on the pavements too. Motorbikes and scooters also use the pavements here.

          But Jin would have us believe that all these people merely suffer from vertigo.

          • xiaohouzi

            Many Chinese don’t want to accept that China really has so many bad drivers. Of course there are exceptions and i’m trying to think of some but i don’t really have any friends that drive. It’s the same in Qingdao so people of all ages are forced to walk in the streets which is even more dangerous. I bet if some officials mother had to walk out into the street to get around a car parked on the sidewalk and she got hit and died, maybe the government might do something. The truth is, the government doesn’t really care about non-drivers… “they don’t have money to buy a car so they are no one. Anyway, China has already so many people.” How many of you break off mirrors or walk over illegally parked cars? In France, you can see busted mirrors all around and that might be one way to start them thinking. I’ve called the police so many time to tell them how they can make a lot more money for the city by ticketing parking offenders but of course, they don’t do much of anything. Maybe if suddenly we all start breaking off mirrors, someone might take steps to make cities better and safer for everyone.

          • jin

            so anus, are you alking shit again?
            learn to read.
            I didnt say that china doesnt have crazy drivers.
            I didnt say that theres nothing wrong with the chinese traffic
            I didnt say that its ok for this to happen.

            anus if you dont like china that much, why do you stay in china? why dont you just gtfo then?

          • Anus Presley

            “so anus, are you talking shit again?”

            What’s up? You don’t like being exposed as a gobshite?
            You said the rate of traffic casualties in China has decreased every year. I proved this to be bullshit.

            “anus if you dont like china that much, why do you stay in china? why dont you just gtfo then?”

            My attitude towards the fucked-up traffic in this country, and the resultant deaths of approx 300 people on China’s roads every day, has nothing to do with how I feel about the country as a whole.

            Gobshite.

          • jin

            anus,

            “But Jin would have us believe that all these people merely suffer from vertigo.”

            this is what mean as in bullshit, that youre talking shit again. get it???

            http://www.chinatoday.com/data/data.htm
            search it yourself, the traffic accidents are getting lower.

      • jin

        ok, maybe the statistics arent 100% accurate.
        but that doesnt mean that the motor vehicle accidents in china are getting lower every year.
        the reason they get so many traffic accident is one obvious reason, most drivers in china are new to the whole driving thing. half of all drivers received their license within the past 5 years. everyone is a new driver, and theres nobody with experience to set an example.
        another reason is that alot of chinese drivers dont use seatbelts and safety (helmets, etc)….. if they did, the death rate would go down by alot.

        http://ezinearticles.com/?United-States-Auto-Accident-Statistics&id=7050324
        this here show that america had 10.8 million motor vehicle accidents in 2009, while they only got 33,808 deaths.

        http://www.car-accidents.com/country-car-accidents/china-car-accidents-crash.html
        while china had 450,000 thousand motor vehicle accidents in 2008, while they go 100.000-250.000 deaths.
        but the deaths in china is more cause, when a motor vehicle accident happend in china, there are almost always more than 3 deaths. and ofcourse the lack of safety precausion.

        • Anus Presley

          Researchers found that traffic fatalities recorded on death certificates increased by 8 percent between 2002 and 2007, while the statistics issued by the police showed a 27 percent decrease in traffic fatalities. In other words, the police have been fixing the numbers in order to protect their performance rankings.

          And the reason China has so many traffic accidents is two-fold. Firstly, the driving lessons & tests are a bit of a joke – and you can easily just buy a license.
          Secondly, the police don’t give a shit, and don’t enforce any traffic rules. As an example, just this afternoon I stood on the side of the road waiting for the lights to change and watched a police car drive through a red light into oncoming traffic at a T-junction as the traffic coming from the opposite side of the road was making a left turn. These coppers just couldn’t be bothered to wait and so muscled their way through a throng of oncoming vehicles.
          I see shit like this every day. What sort of an example does this set if even the police don’t give a shit about the traffic regulations?

          • anon

            jin is being a lot more honest in this debate than you are. He’s acknowledging your valid points whereas you’ve consistently ignored his points and put words in his mouth. About the only thing you’ve gotten on jin was that statistics are questionable and can be manipulated, which he readily acknowledged (and which is equally applicable to the stats you bring up).

            Here, it seems you can’t be honest enough to acknowledge that a growth in new drivers coupled with a society that is fairly new to car ownership and operation is indeed one main cause for the pervasiveness of poor driving habits and dangerous driving behaviors, while jin has repeatedly acknowledged the reasons you’ve argued (poor driver training and police enforcement).

        • Anus Presley

          The driving lessons need to focus more on things that matter, as opposed to giving multiple-choice question & answer forms that have endless amounts of questions relating to when and where to sound your car horn.
          For driving lessons not to teach drivers the importance of using their mirrors when making a turn is inexcusable.

          Every first-time driver has to begin somewhere, and the best way to reduce the risk of accidents is to make the lessons and the tests as thorough and intensive as possible.

          Then the police can me made to do the job of enforcing the traffic rules, instead of flouting them themselves, thereby making the problem worse. Perhaps they can penalize local police divisions if the number of accidents in their area is too high.

          Either way, the problem will not just go away by itself.

          • jin

            the reason china got so high fatal rate is cause of unsafe driving and lack of safety precausion, and the pedestrians that get hit when it goes wrong.
            but the traffic accident rate in china is alot lower than america.
            so that means, its not that chinese people cant drive, the accidents happen cause of unsafe driving, they were not taught about road safety, putting on seat belts, etc.

            last post for me… since anus dont listen to others, damn…..
            a egoist anus….. only shit comes out from it, loving only yourself and your shit.

        • Anus Presley

          Jin: “the traffic accident rate in china is a lot lower than america.
          so that means, its not that chinese people cant drive, the accidents happen cause of unsafe driving, they were not taught about road safety, putting on seat belts, etc.”

          And driving on the wrong side of the road. And driving on sidewalks. And not using their side-mirrors, or rear-view mirrors. And driving with their lights on full-beam at night. And speeding. And overtaking in busy traffic, and in tunnels. And the police turning a blind eye to traffic violations, even committing such violations themselves, e.t.c, e.t.c.

  • Anus Presley

    Driving on the wrong side of the road isn’t an accident, it’s a crime. I see people driving on the wrong side of the road, and on pedestrian sidewalks, every day. If and when someone is run over and killed by one of these fools, they are not the victim of an accident, they are the victim of criminal irresponsibility, and dangerous driving.

    Likewise, if the above driver did indeed suffer from vertigo, it would still constitute a crime, and not an accident:

    “The law states explicitly, those who suffer from vertigo absolutely may not operate automobiles,” explains one of the people working with the Jinan police.

    • Little Wolf

      Yeah…you get it AP, but someone needs to explain this to anon.

      Probably some of you may have seen this “funny” motivaional poster before
      http://www.bestmotivationalposters.com/funnypostergallery/my-way.html

      As bad as that pic looks only 1 fatality and most turned out to be fortunately minor injuries. I can only imagine that the Shandong shithead must have been hauling ass to kill 5 people.

      • anon

        For fuck’s sake, Little Wolf, the crux of YOUR (and Anus Presley’s) misunderstanding is that you guys think he was cruising down the wrong side of the street. That wasn’t the case which, if you read the report carefully or can read Chinese, you would know. How many times does this have to be explained to you guys? He was driving on the correct side of the road when for some reason he lost control and veered over onto the opposite side where he plowed through the riders. Losing control and winding up on the wrong side of the road is an accident.

        ac·ci·dent/ˈaksidənt/
        Noun:
        An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
        A crash involving road or other vehicles, typically one that causes serious damage or injury.

        If he knew he had vertigo and still drove, then we can say that was a crime, but the article isn’t clear on whether he knew or not. That’s why the article goes through the trouble of explaining how IF he knew, then that’s actually WORSE than had he not. Even then, what happened still falls within the definition of an “accident” because he very likely did not “expect” (and for that, we accuse him of negligence) nor “intend” to cause such an “unfortunate incident resulting in damage or injury”.

        Something is seriously wrong with you guys.

        Anus, this old man may remind you of all the retards willfully driving on the wrong side of the road or on sidewalks but that doesn’t mean he IS one of them. Confine your speculations to the actual information you have about this particular incident. You’re essentially judging one person and what happened based entirely upon your stereotypes of other people. What was that one black kid who was shot because of his hoodie and what the shooter felt hoodies signified?

        • Anus Presley

          Anon: “jin is being a lot more honest in this debate than you are. He’s acknowledging your valid points whereas you’ve consistently ignored his points and put words in his mouth.”

          This is what I said:
          “Researchers found that traffic fatalities recorded on death certificates increased by 8 percent between 2002 and 2007, while the statistics issued by the police showed a 27 percent decrease in traffic fatalities. In other words, the police have been fixing the numbers in order to protect their performance rankings.”

          This is what Jin now says:
          “search it yourself, the traffic accidents are getting lower – http://www.chinatoday.com/data/data.htm

        • moop

          “What was that one black kid who was shot because of his hoodie and what the shooter felt hoodies signified?” really anon? mr “let’s not jump to conclusions”? i didnt know the verdict was already passed in that case, oh wait, its hasnt been. there’s more EVIDENCE that leads to him being shot during a scuffle than because he was wearing a hoody.

          • Brett Hunan

            Right, I believe the media has been skewing the public’s eye on that case. From what I heard, the media outlets were using the kid’s photos from like 4 or 5 years earlier when he was a pure, happy, kid. The pictures before his death look completely different and not like a child at all. The shooter’s pictures were also misrepresented. However, I know nothing else related to that story and don’t know if there was a scuffle.

          • moop
        • Little Wolf

          So, I guess you’re gonna stick with the “vertigo” explanation?

  • Garbo

    Why isn’t the driver in jail? I don’t care if the driver is elderly. He committed a heinous crime.

  • Marian Rosenberg

    All of them.

    • moop

      “all of them” what? look delicious?

  • El Puma R.

    “This whole thing is really an unintentional accident. The offending party definitely will definitely take all the blame, but you can’t tell if it’s a DUI or someone acting out specifically against society. The victims had a lot of people gathered on the road at once, and didn’t have any safety plans or protection. The fact that five people got hit at once with these conditions definitely is important to consider. Nowadays, there are more and more clubs. Group activities like this really need to be more careful.”

    God? did you see what he just said? Please kill his mother by rolling over her head with a huge truck.

  • Another Shandong Driver kills. This one attempted to fake mania. I guess the vertigo card had been played too recently…

    Web China: Driver under fire after knocking down mother and child, obstructing ambulance

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/28/c_131682003.htm

    • This story is really much much worse than the one we are commenting on here. Please start a new post for it.

  • jogiff

    Let’s be honest. If this happened in America the netizens would be howling insults at the bike riders for hogging the road. I’ve been hit at intersections because a lot of motorists seem to be under the impression that if a bike is in their way the solution is just to push them out of the way.

    • moop

      as someone who used to ride bikes all the time in america and participate in critical masses all over the country, i would say you are full of shit

  • Kou

    if the economic boom is too much for you, just go back riding a donkey.. 748

  • van delft

    nice to see again that people have the time to film this and not even stop to help…pfffffffffff

  • Mao’s Dong

    Too old to drive.

    Old people cannot play video game driving games to save there live–why should they be able to drive (without adequate and periodical assessment of their competence)?

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