Hong Kong Says ‘No’ to Mainland Education, Chinese Reactions

Parents and their children are saying no to brainwash.

From Sina Weibo:

@彭蠡书生: Hong Kong People Reject Brainwashing Education: On July 23rd, over a thousand parents in Hong Kong published a statement in newspapers demanding that the government put a stop to the “Moral and National Education” program originally scheduled to be implemented in [Hong Kong] primary schools this September. The Concern Group [Concern Group for Hong Kong Science Education] criticized the National Education concept in the curriculum guide as “brainwashing education” for conflating “loving the country” with “loving the [Chinese Communist] Party”. The Hong Kong Teachers’ Union yesterday [July 22] announced they would join the protest, the president Feng Weihua claims the union will ask teachers to sign a conscience charter, promising not to be a tool in brainwashing their students.

Hong Kong parents unite to oppose Mainland Education.

A press conference held by Hong Kong parents to protest against what they fear is "brainwashing" education fromt he mainland.

Banner: “Parents stand forward together to stop national education”

A protesting ad on a street of Hong Kong.

Comments from Sina Weibo:

蓝山俊彰:

It’s still the Hong Kongers who have civic awareness. I support our Hong Kong compatriots.

xuexue108:

Not only are we brainwashed, it’s also a test subject.

繁星_爱萌萌的朴柿子:

Seems having once been a colony isn’t a bad thing.

loyal2001:

What is called brainwash? If Hong Kong’s teachers all didn’t brain brainwash their students, then that would be the end of at least all humanities education. May I ask, what then will these teachers teach? For college students, of course we can guide them to compare, to question, to think in order to form their own conclusions, but what about primary school and middle school students? Don’t let this so-called rejection of brainwashing merely become brainwashing with foreign-worshiping education. How can Hong Kong teachers achieve the goal of education without brainwashing? Let’s wait and see.

荷河河:

Hong Kong you must persevere! Don’t be assimilated!

小小考拉的大考拉:

Very good, seeing this, those people in the Taiwan Province who were conflicted will be conflicted no more, because our Party has made their direction clear, and they’ll rather emigrate than return [to China]. “One country, two systems” was nothing but a stalling tactic.

第三魔:

I’m a failure product of their brainwashing anyway.

书香门地美学地板苏州站:

Sigh, the education we received growing up was that the Party suffered in service to the country, only realizing when we grew up just who is actually serving/providing for who, completely reversed.

饼干的幸福:

I’m thankful of my middle school political education teacher. Every time before class, he would say: Those of you who have homework from other classes can do it in my class, or rest and chat quietly. Just don’t let your head teacher know. Before class is over, I’ll tell you what content might be on the test.

LoLoOu:

Loving the country and loving the Party are two completely different concepts. For example, you can’t not love the Party, but you must love your country. Note, I said “for example”~

火与土的浪漫:

Hong Kong, how long can you continue to hold out?

清水河边的米粉粉:

Want to brainwash Hong Kong people? It’s absolutely stupid and crazy. In the mainland, decades of years of brainwash, the post-70s, post-80s, and post-90s, none of which still believe those brainwashing stuff. Keep dreaming.

solado:

Has Hong Kong still not returned? Are Hong Kong people longing to be colonized? Longing for the British to come back and educate them? Is Hong Kong still a British colony???

苦逼的逝去的13加1年:

The Party, politics, and nation have always been different categories, the Chinese government deliberately conflates them together.

一路说笑:

Very normal, if the country established by the Chinese Communist Party didn’t unify education on loving the country [patriotic education] and loving the party together, now that would be unimaginable. Those who agitate for division, also known as those who claim our country’s education is “brainwashing” simply have ulterior motives. Why didn’t they reject the colonial education of the British?

虫之虫之虫:

No need to talk about this… Just looking at my generation and the people around me and I alrady know the brainwashing is utterly unsuccessful and has even resulted in no small amount of backlash.

黄梓祺:

Of course we love our country, it’s the place that gave birth to and raised us up. Her selflessness, tolerance, and all the burdens she bears, how could a certain Party shoulder the same? To a certain degree, I even dare to say: Anyone who says “to love the country one must also love the Party” is basically a bastard!

徐晋如:

Hong Kong is the city I love the most in China.

黄裳大侠:

I’m curious, how did promoting patriotic education become brainwashing?

昊子是7号:

Rejecting enslaving education is everyone’s duty.

天涯赵瑜:

Why can’t mainland parents respond together?

小学一年级新生:

If in the future you’re cracked down upon for opposing the Party…better take responsibility for your own consequences.

清咖啡_icefire:

Hong Kong mustn’t fall! I truly wish my kid didn’t have this kind of brainwashing education. Child, I’m sorry.

张学文steven:

I just don’t get it. From primary school to high school, I was taught political education. In college, I was taught Scientific Socialism. In graduate school, I was taught and learned Dialectics of Nature. For 17 years I was brainwashed, but how come I’m still like this and can’t fully understand the government’s difficulties [isn’t filled with sympathy for the government]?

老张师父:

Better leave a place with no brainwashing. This way, when we become mentally retarded in the future, we’ll at least know where we should run to.

崔强TSUI:

Poor mainland children. Starting from first grade, a red cord is tied around their necks.

手机用户2742846327:

Envy. Today, only our Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan compatriots can stand against the corrupted tide.

我本楚狂人他娘:

Shit, we were forcibly brainwashed for decades. No test was short of testing politics, especially when in your heart you clearly knew they were all lies but you still had to memorize them for your scores. Truly fucking disgusting. I support Hong Kong’s parents and teachers!

息州人:

Hong Kong people have “brainwashed” us, praises!

Toffey堂果:

There were truly something wrong with some textbooks, talking about how it is patriotic to sacrifice one’s life. Bullshit! Life is so very great [important, valuable, not to be treated lightly].

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  • w

    Hong kong dogs

    • leon

      I’ve lived in HK and mainland China. Seems they act more like dogs in Mainland China than in HK. UNcivilized is how i would describe Mainland.

    • mr. wiener

      …..are delicious.

      • lonetrey

        your nickname would imply so… I always think of a yummy chinese hotdog whenever I see you comment XD

    • vince

      on your sofaaaaaaaaa

    • 平凡人

      Hmmm….I thought they banned dog meat sometime back. Anyway, go back to mainland for dog meat.

    • linette

      This post is becoming like a war between China vs Hk. Let me say something to clarify.
      HK people in general recognize ourselves as Chinese from HK aka Hongkongese. We call Chinese from China mainland chinese. We don’t hate or look down on mainlanders. We do realize that we are living under different gov’t. We live in different societies and have different ideologies.

      Here are some of the things Hk people don’t like about China gov’t:
      1)your inequality human rights segregation system. You segregate the poor rural from the rich urban people. We hate that with passion.
      http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/09/27/2003514282
      2)lack of equal access to healthcare for all citizens.
      3)lack of equal access to education for all citizens.
      4)corruption among the gov’t officials. You can buy your way out of conviction. Bribery is very common and seem acceptable in your society. You think putting money in red envelops to give to officers is customary we call it bribery. In HK we have ICAC and if officers get caught they are dead meat. They go to jail for that.
      5)Everything is about connection. You can only get gov’t position if you have connection or a family member. What about qualifications?

      There are many more things. It is just that our beliefs and our gov’t systems are so different it will be very hard for the HK people to accept intergration with China now. HK people don’t hate China Chinese. We are just waiting for the China gov’t to get better so we can intergrate better. Hk people want China people to enjoy the same freedom. So please stop calling us dogs.

      • LogicandReason

        Income inequality is greater in Hong Kong than in any OECD country

        • completepicture

          Hail Linette!
          @ LogicandReason: Rather be poor and free (in HK) than poor in China. If you chose otherwise, you should change your name…

          • LogicandReason

            yes, free to be the maid of some rich hong kong banker

        • leftists are tongzhimen

          you do realize that Hong Kong is the best place to live in the world regardless of how much you make?

          It is the most economically free in the world. Anyone could start a business and create wealth for themselves.

          Why are you concerned on how much someone else makes? Be concerned with yourself if you don’t like your wage.

          • Zappa Frank

            what if you don’t have the skills to improve? what about the average people? it cannot that in a city all have their own biz.

    • http://www.myredchina.com my red china

      Yes, it seems the Hong Kong Dogs have gotten together with the American Dogs, british dogs, japanese dogs, korean dogs, european dogs… shit there’s a lot of dogs in the world, pretty much everyone but Han Chinese, eh?

  • Charles

    First time… almost on the sofa… loving Hong Kong!

  • Jeff

    Keep HK free. I agree

  • terroir

    Cutest protesters foreverz!

    Are those miniature stop signs edible? Along that vein, what would miniature PRC flags taste like? Crow?

    • mr. wiener

      More like sour grapes.

  • Kim Jong-un

    This is a plot by west to stop HK from integrating into PRC, same plot has been employed to Korea peninsula. The protesters are simply brainwashed by the west, like the South Koreans.

    • LEGION

      awww.

    • sm

      Maybe it’s not that complicated.

    • oOWOo

      lol

  • sm

    This time, I support Hongkong. The Communist Party really make me sick.

    • asdf

      You think the people of Hong Kong are capable of free thought? you think that they’re acting according to reason? Go look at the anti-chinese comments from HKers and Taiwanese. Do any of their arguments seem reasonable to you?? Does it seem like they formed their opinions after thorough research and analysis? They’re just as brainwashed as anyone else in this world.
      Introducing Communist propaganda as a counterbalance to Western media will only provide a more stimulating learning environment for critical thinkers. Those who can think will continue to think, those who can’t will still be brainwashed. And frankly i would rather see these idiots brainwashed by blind Chinese patriotism, than have them possessed by the western religion of “democracy, freedom, and Sinophobia”. What a load of bullshit.
      Full support for the communist party.

      • Winter B4 Spring

        Yes, Hong Kong ppl are capable of free thoughts.
        Yes, Hong Kong people are acting according to good reasonings.
        Yes, their arguments are reasonable, as the comments weren’t anti-China, they were more likely anti-communist.
        Maybe, as just by looking at those opinions, i cannot find prove that anyone formed their opinion after thorough analysis, or did not, which is my thorough analysis.
        Not really, Hong Kong people are as brainwashed as people who wants to be free. If that makes it the “world”, “yes” is the answer then. We all want to be free. And that wont happen under communist rule.
        No, introducing communist propaganda into cultures, countries and medias will only corrupt and condemn the future of civilizations. In fact, promoting everything within the Universal Declaration of Human Rights stimulating learning environment for critical thinkers, NOT communism.
        Yes, i agree – “Those who can think will continue to think, those who can’t will still be brainwashed.” Very relevant to our debate.
        And frankly i would NOT want to see people being brainwashed by blind communist propaganda (which is not the same as Chinese patriotism).
        What a load of bullcrap.
        Full support to Quit the Communist Party.
        I found this very interesting website online, introduced by a friend, who might have got it from a friend too – http://www.quitccp.org/

        • Dan

          Fuck off 轮子, go back to harassing people on skype or something.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            o.O Erm…what for?? Btw, with your intelligent reply, i am not able to honour your comments with a debate. I apologise =P

      • alex

        smoke crack much?

        • Winter B4 Spring

          haha…matter of fact, asdf does…

      • sm

        Obviously, you don’t know how corruptive the Communist Party is. And
        you don’t see how they always just emphasize the form of everything.
        when you are searching a job, some companies would see whether you are Party memember or not. I mean a man who isn’t a party mememer but he does have a great ability, he would be rejected by the company(wtf). And being a party member, you would have a lot of relationships to deal with. anyway, the Communist Party is a very complex thing.

        • asdf

          You think it’ll get better after china becomes democratic?

          • sm

            well ,I wasn’t saying that. I just don’t understand why you love Communist Party so much.

          • asdf

            Well if there isn’t a better leadership alternative for China, then what else is there to love?
            I hate the communist party ideology. I hate china’s national day. I hate that portrait of Mao at Tiananmen square. I celebrate double ten day every year.
            I think the Overthrow of the ROC was a great tragedy for china.
            And if china goes through another event like this, nothing good will come of it!

          • El Puma R.

            Please tell me you guys have realized china isn’t communist anymore. And the communism that was preached here (in China) actually killed a whole intellectual generation because Mao was merely a farmer with huge aspirations in a country filled with uneducated farmers with lots of huge aspirations.

            I truly always support HK against Mainland China. People from HK enjoy a better education system and Mainland wants to get rid of it, just like they have been getting rid of everything that’s important or relevant to their culture for the past 60 years.

            Please people stop making accusations when you only hear one side of the story, and not both. If you do, then you’re no better than a tape recorder.

            And let’s not forget that most governments nowadays are doing whatever they want with whoever they want, in every country… on the other side, Mainland China is always quite obvious when it comes to brainwash people.

          • asdf

            well if china isn’t communist anymore then what’s the problem?
            It’s only obvious because their “brainwashing” is different from western “brainwashing” it is this DIFFERENCE which generates the OBVIOUSNESS. You think the current education in HK isn’t brainwashing?

          • asdf

            I would like you to define “Better education”. Why is it that people so readily assume that the education of any “Democratic” country or region is automatically “Better”. Do you even know HOW it is “Better”? Do you have any evidence whatsoever?

            Oh and please save yourself some embarrassment and refrain from providing the all time favorite argument of idiots that “authoritarian governments destroy creativity”. “Democracy is a haven of innovation”. THIS IS JUST SO BLATANTLY FALSE. How was any type of innovation possible in Ancient Dynastic China?? How did they come up with junk rigs, rudders, compasses, guns, cannons, landmines, rockets, dougong architecture, and seismographs without a democratic government?? How did Soviet Russians launch the first Man into space? How did “Brainwashed” Fascist Nazis make the first jet engines, stealth planes, and nuclear reactors? Stop bullshitting and provide some actual historical evidence. You’re making a joke out of yourself.

      • Snarl

        asdf said: “Do any of their arguments seem reasonable to you?? Does it seem like they formed their opinions after thorough research and analysis?”

        Stop and think about that for a second. If you’re more perceptive than a lump of clay then you should see how these questions actually undermine your whole comment.

      • China Smacked

        It`s not necessarily the same people protesting one issue as those posting comments online regarding a completely separate issue.
        Regardless of the rhetoric used it’s easy to understand their concerns.

      • 平凡人

        Yeah, Chinese brainwashing works. If so, why so many rich people in China are migrating? Why so many family members of high ranking Chinese officials are also migrating? Why they are weak against foreign antagonism? Because their family members are in foreign land, they need to conside their well being.

        • Young Man

          Chinese people living in America or Europe do not suffer harrassment from the governments of those countries, if that’s what you’re implying.

          On the other hand, the Chinese government appears to frequently threaten the families of those who stand up against them.

        • El Puma R.

          Dude… As for the government officials and rich people, they migrate because they need to spend all the money they get from bribes here in China, and because they can’t stand being around all the poor people they’ve stolen from. Funny thing is that they take all their lack of culture and uncivilized behavior with them. But as many Chinese, you don’t know that also lots of poor Chinese people migrate, to lots of parts of this world in much bigger numbers thanks to illegal organizations that make business with them. And I’m talking BIG business. Those are the ones who don’t agree with the CCP.. not the rich ones man, those can travel because the CCP allows them to.

          Your comment makes no sense to me. Migrate but hate the foreigners? wtf?

          I even know some Chinese people who enjoy a very comfortable life here in their own country and they still want to leave, only by the pretext of “having a better life”. So what I get from it is “my country is totally fucked so now I gotta take my family to other country so we can start a new life filled with happy moments of fucking other people”

          We might be foreign and we might be “evil” but something we don’t do is point our finger the way Chinese (and Americans) do. Or to migrate pretending we are still at home, just like many americans do in china and many chinese do in America and other countries.

          “Well being” Man… I’ve seen the Chinese government officials all squeezing and pushing each other to get the newest piece of shit at an apple store. They migrate because they know that one of these days regular chinese people fill -finally- realise how badly have they been stolen by these people. They enjoy a right they haven’t earned.

          You can migrate but your rights end where the other person’s rights begin. That means, Mainland people and their children are leaving the HK children without a place to study in their OWN schools and now the CCP is trying to brainwash them with 20-year 13 to 15 hours per day Math/Chinese/English schools where the children will turn into those useless chubby emotional incapable kids with twisted social behavior and over-the-edge blindly rude uneducated and stupidly arrogant parents, which I see in the mainland everyday.

          As for my last paragraph, I didn’t generalize, no. Some of them are still well educated, but no more than 10%.

          The best way to make society stupid or smart is by education.
          Let’s take a moment and think about the education system in our countries.

          Hmm, I’m with the HK people.

          • 平凡人

            Dude,
            The Chinese officials family members can used as a tool against the Chinese official since they are outside China, that’s what I mean. I am with the Hong Kong people, I am just being cynical about the brain washing which obviously does not work; if it works, those CCP family members would have remain in China and die with the country.

      • Thor

        By the way, communism as ideology is born in the West. So you can be brainwashed whether by capitalism or communism as you wish.

  • juanchulo de cali

    如果一个党派是伟大的,他就不会怕别人反对。
    If a party was great/mighty, it would not be afraid of being opposed.

  • http://www.bestvpninchina.com Rod

    One of the commenters had it right – Hong Kong, how long can you hold out?

    On another note, HK and Taiwan are always having issues like these – what happened to Macau? Isn’t that a special economic zone also? Wasn’t it a colony of Portugal at one time? Why does Macau not have these problems?

    • Tengu

      Casinos!

    • hess

      uhm.. taiwan never has issues like these

      • http://www.bestvpninchina.com Rod

        I was generalizing about bad relations with the mainland, not necessarily about education only.

        • Winter B4 Spring

          oh i see =P

          • markus

            Macau is moving faster than HK integrating into the mainland in fact it started even before Macau was handed back. Macau has always had a closer relationship with the mainland, that’s not to say they are happy with everything but that’s the way it is.

            As for HK I fear they won’t hold out for that long. Beijing put people into HK in the 80s now those mainlanders have moved up into high powered jobs and these kind of people help tip the balance in Beings’ favour.

            What I ultimately don’t understand is, HK generates and works efficiently as it is so why change it, plus the agreement made by HK, the UK and China when it was given back was to leave HK for at least 50 years before its no longer a special administrated region. What’s the rush to turn HK so quickly?

            Also HK was told they would be allowed to vote for the leader of HK. The date for when they will be allowed to vote keeps getting pushed back years into the future I think now its 2017 and by the time we get to 2017 they will be saying 2022…
            So HK people are angry. Having a bunch of business men decide who should lead is a bad choice for HK especially as over half of them have close ties to mainland’s government.

            This is the information I know, I hope the art about Macau was enough to inform you. My friend who is from Macau thinks it wont take that long for Macau to be fully integrated into the mainland maybe as soon as 15-20 years.

          • Andao

            @markus

            It’s entirely about politics. Every Chinese president wants to be the one that did something big about Hong Kong. They all want to leave a legacy, just the same as democratically elected politicians.

            Sure, they could wait 100 years and Taiwan might be open to joining the mainland. But honestly, which Chinese president wouldn’t LOVE to be the one who “won back Taiwan”? This is why there will probably be conflict between HK and the mainland before those 50 years are up.

    • donscarletti

      Macao is tiny, 400K people. If China was the world, Macao would have the size and population of Moldavia. Macao doesn’t have any problems because nobody cares about it, they just go there to gamble, if they think about it at all.

      • Dr SUN

        or Las Vegas,
        Don huge amounts of money, probably trillions of YMB is laundered through Macau annually. Go there watch its Vegas on steroids.

    • 平凡人

      They are busy enough with their casinos and they welcome gamblers from mainland China with open arms.

    • oOWOo

      The big differences between Macao and HK is that first of all, Hong Kong’s economy was much more advanced than Macaos. It was not only tourism driven, but the finance sector and trade are playing vital roles. Therefor, with increasing tourism radically in Macao, it benefited many locals and made their lade back place sort of richer, while in overcrowded HK a bunch of bad behaved tourists from mainland might maybe bring down the unemployment numbers a bit, but make everything else in the city worse (housing, health care,…).

      Moreover, with only a few hundred thousand people in Macao, it was easy to assimilate a similar amount of mainlanders, who support the mainland. In HK they have not dared yet to bring in 7 Million mainlanders as permanent residents. And even many of the old Macaoans do not have a very high opinion about mainlanders, but they are now a minority in their region…

  • Dripping Third Leg

    This is a typical Chinese mentality of showing tardiness to whatever foreign and toughness to whatever domestic…
    Hongkong dogs have all electricity, water supply and capital pumping from mainland but they don’t feel a shred of gratitude, they despise, disparage and detest mainlanders. Now they even refuse to be Chinese and patriotic. It’s true commie sons of guns are nothing good but craming and spreading mesmerizing shit to innocent kids,and I’m sided with hongkong dogs this time. But why hong kong dogs didn’t stand up against british colonists back then , why they didn’t outcry against of the british propaganda/brainwashing, why they didn’t take to street to fight for democracy and independence then ??? !!!

    Those fugly,gay-speaking midgets claim to be a different group of Chinese from mainlanders, but I would say they are the most ungrateful ,the most devious piece of shit living under the name of Chinese Nationals in this planet !
    What contribution do they do to Chinese people ? They hate Chinese but unfortunately they can’t do anything about it for themselves. They say they are different Chinese, but unfortunately they are nothing different to mainlanders and outsiders.
    They are dogs that sway to whomever with bones when hungry, but when they are full, they bite around ferociously!
    Dogs are dogs .

    • Alejandro

      First: you ought to read what they stand for: they are not saying that China sucks, they are against branwashing. They also supports China and hates the one party. If you can read traditional chinese, you are able to read the full textbook online…
      Second: learn more about economy and realize that in a global world there is not energy dependence. If they don’t buy to China they would do to another place.
      Third: the stood against British and they were quite exited to return to homeland…but after 1989… you know the rest of the story ;)

      • asdf

        Why do they hate the one party? do they have any legitimate reasons to do so? In what way is china’s “one party” incompetent? Let me remind you that the Republic of China before 1989 was also “one party”. Why would they be excited to return to one party ROC but not to one party PRC? THINK FUCKING DAMMIT. THINK!!!!

        • Dr SUN

          They hate it because of it’s rampant corruption, inequalities, oppression and hedonism.

          Any other questions asdf ?

          • asdf

            Oh and if the ROC was so democratic, equal, and corruption free, then why was it overthrown?

          • Winter B4 Spring

            I can answer that question.
            The Nationalists weren’t angels, factually true. However, they were heavily involved with fighting the Japs, and as a govt, they were in essence, Chinese and patriots. Consequently, loosing men to war. The communists, a teaching from Germany, imported from USSR then, was hiding in villages, robbing the people whenever possible, eating for free, and when the time was ripe, jumped out, and chased away the Nationalists. Then declared China as the “People’s” Republic.
            China had a terrible part of history whereby the people were humiliated and demoralized. It was such a turbulent and poor era then, matter of fact, theoretically more backwards then during the Tang dynasty when China was the centre of the world. The Chinese people were desperate to be free from foreign control, and thus accepted Marxism/Leninism, which did liberate them, at least temporarily on the surface.
            However, that was the downfall of China. From that day, China had always been under the foreign control of communism, and people die whenever the party says so. Even today, the ideas of Deng, or Mao, were born from Marx & Lenin. “Power from the barrel of the gun”, “Fight the heaven, fight the earth, fight the people, herein lies endless happiness”, etc.
            So, now every decade, we’ll see the party going against a certain group of people in the country.
            However, lately, i do notice the Chinese people speaking up. It seems the need to be free, physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually, is inherent to humanity. The Chinese people are criticizing the communist party, and even renouncing their memberships in public.
            Everyone in China is a victim to communism. Everyone knows someone, or had someone in their family, who was once battered, bruised, or killed by the party.
            The difference is, as individuals, we have to ultimately make a decision. Do we choose to be part of an entity that possess the country, rape the culture, and destroy the land, and thus curse ourselves and our families to miseries, or do we stand on the side of conscience, loose the shackles of communism that bound us since 1949, and speak out for our fellow countrymen and neighbours who cannot speak for themselves while under repression?

          • asdf

            Oh sure, it’s easy to point at problems, but do you have a solution? How do we satisfy the Chinese craving for “freedom”.
            by overthrowing the tyrannical “party” and setting up a democracy?
            you really think that will solve china’s problems with corruption and inequality?

            The Chinese people are once again desperate to be free from foreign control, and thus any form of revolt will only liberate them, at only temporarily on the surface. However, this will be the next downfall of China. Soon afterwards the same problems will resurface, the illusion of “freedom” will fade away, and after two cycles whole cycles of establishment and overthrow, they’ll just be back to square one all over again.

          • Zappa Frank

            @winter you have a really peculiar vision of the war in china and the role of nationalist and communist. Unlucky documents seems to say the contrary.

          • asdf

            You think he actually wrote this? It’s just a copy paste from some anti-china forum. He doesn’t even understand what he just said.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ Zappa Frank – thank you :) i take that as a compliment. However, the history i read mentioned what it did, and in my opinion, makes sense, and thats why most overseas Chinese despise the communists, and Chinese in China wants to leave for a better life. Yay!

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ asdf:
            Maybe, and yes, and maybe.
            The 2nd paragraph after what you questioned, seemed to be toeing the line of the party. The words you used is exactly what the commie party wants people to think, which is crap. Also the strange part of how you see the future of a devastated China after “Freedom”.
            Chinese is desperate to be free from communist control. To be free isn’t to be foreign. To be free is innate.

          • maja

            hi winter, can I ask where are you from?

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ Maja: hi Maja, good day to you. you may ask, of course. =] i apologise, i won’t be answering your question directly — hiding behind ChinaSmack to exercise my right of expression. haha. =P But thank you for your interest. You have a good day. =D I will stop commenting here soon, hopefully, and move on to the next post =] woohoooooo!!

        • hess

          You’re a retard.

          • asdf

            good argument. . .
            very convincing

          • Winter B4 Spring

            That’s not an argument, that’s a comment. And you’re right – very convincing.

          • HeSaidSheSaid

            You, sir, have hit the nail on the head. In a very similar way to how asdf must have been hit as a child. Wham!

          • linette

            asdf is an example exactly why HK CANNOT allow China re-education to take over and get into our public school system to our hk kids. asdf is a product of the “brainwashed” China education. Living under and agreeing everything with the China gov’t a system that promote inequality human rights. asdf has no clue of what’s simple civil rights is because he was brainwashed as a young kid so he can not understand.

            What can HK people do to help asdf and millions of China chinese to think? How can we un-brainwash millions of the China chinese who suffered under this education without themselves knowing?

            By breaking into our HK education system, they then can change our ideology starting with our kids. This is how they will assimilate us without using military force.

          • Dr SUN

            Linette, for once we agree.

            Assimilation into the collective will start with your children.

          • asdf

            @linette
            I was born and raised in Canada. I can only read and write Chinese at the gr1 level. Explain how i received my “Chinese communist brainwashing” without ever entering a Chinese school.

          • tai wai

            @linette
            I was born and raised in Canada. I can only read and write Chinese at the gr1 level. Explain how i received my “Chinese communist brainwashing” without ever entering a Chinese school.

            Oops.

            I’d say you’ve succumbed to a different kind of brainwashing.

            Maybe you never really fit in. Maybe other kids made fun of you, called you names. Or insulted your family. Never really integrated well. So, you grew to hate your adopted culture. To only see the bad sides of it.

            Like a child that realizes there is no Santa, you are furious at the “lies” you have been told about how great the West is. You know better! You live there!

            So you’re angry, you’re bitter, you’re Western but don’t want to be, and you really want to fit into a group. Hey, you’re ethnically Chinese! There’s that, right? You could support your brothers!

            And, of course, you were taught that you are have the right to bitch and moan about things you don’t like. You know, free speech.

            So, you became a Chinese nationalist, trying desperately to believe that you can somehow relate to the “brothers back home” by saying “fuck the West and liberalism!”

            All without ever realizing that your brothers back home aren’t allowed to say the same about China. All without realizing that you are helping the Party, not your brothers. And all without realizing that you acting more like an angry, spoiled Westerner than anything else.

            Poor guy.

          • asdf

            Oh gawd no. I know exactly what my “brothers back home” are like. I’ve met plenty of new immigrants who held on to their ridiculous Communist teachings. I don’t agree with them one bit.

            And who the hell are you to tell me what my own childhood was like? Your amusing little story sounds like some oversimplified character development cliche from a horrible TV series .

        • bomber

          They hate the one party because they’ve seen what it has done both ideologically and spiritually to the Chinese people. Chinese people were once regarded as the kindest people on the planet. Today that reputation no longer exists. As an example for the society, the CCP does tons to set an example for the people that highlights the absolute worst aspects of Chinese culture: Open displays of arrogance and corruption. An emotionally charged inability to deal with criticism of any sort. The absence of reason and logic in their rhetoric which is replaced with the lower-brain function of emotional, animalistic, collective thinking. Plain-old deceit. Self-deceit. The elevation of the ego over the mind. Deeply racist and xenophobic when it suits there immediate interests, and actually racist and xenophobic even when it doesn’t. Relativistic to the point of de-facto lawlessness. Willful ignorance and / or rage in the face of contrary evidence. Bitter. Deeply embittered by a perceived sense of humiliation and victimhood. The cowardly fear of any dissenting opinion concomitant heavy-handed reaction to those who express one. A terrific avoidance of anything but superficial compassion and a sense of duty towards their fellow Chinese. It’s naked focus on self-preservation and personal convenience over the well-being of society at large. In this sense, it could be said that the one party has failed to cultivate a citizenry that even remotely resembles a civilized polis and more closely resembles a giant zoo. There are individuals (not in the government) that are attempting to buck this trend, but they are precious few and far between. They are of course surrounded by a n army of coattail riders who would abandon them at the first sign of trouble, but again – I am highlighting the worst aspects of the culture.

          The CCP takes all credit for basically letting the market run its course. They act like getting out of the way and letting the private economy make progress is a great accomplishment for them. They manage this with a straight face even though none of this progress would have been possible had it not been for massive amounts of foreign investments and technology transfers.

          I wasn’t aware that the Taiwanese were up in arms agitating for a return to one-party rule. I’m not sure where you were going with that.

          The CCP is riding the upswing of economic development, but eventually, the pendulum will swing back the other way. It always does. The time has already come when Chinese citizens are becoming more and more unwilling to put up with inflation. And soon, one or the other must give. When that time comes, we’ll see how much love the CCP really has amongst the people it purports to serve.

          Loving the CCP isn’t about loving China. The true Chinese patriots out there aren’t the ones hanging up red banners praising the party or making excuses for them on the internet. The real Chinese patriots are the ones who aren’t impressed with the gold-medal count, or the GDP growth rate, or the shiny building facades that obscure the utter soulessness of Chinese cities. They are interested in creating a better life for their countrymen – and not at the expense of people from other parts of this rock we call earth. They are interested in a functional criminal-justice system. They are interested in protecting their country’s environment – even if it isn’t the environment of their hometown. They are interested in China getting actual respect and ‘face’ on the world stage through virtue of the accomplishments of her individual citizens and an ability to stomach criticism with a more stoic psychological response than a small child.

          I have lived in China a long time and I see a lot of great people here who want to do good things. I do not see the CCP as the vehicle that will truly unleash the creative, artistic and human power of the Chinese people. As far as I am concerned they are standing in the way of that.

          I sometimes see the infantile criticism on sites like these towards foreigners that goes something like: “You have no right to criticize China. If you don’t like it leave, otherwise shut up!”

          I’ve got news for you haters though: I’m not shutting up and I’m not leaving. Suck on that.

          • Northerner

            Bravo!

          • tai wai

            Nice.

            If you are ever down in the PRD, I’d like to buy you a beer.

          • Hongjian

            “The CCP takes all credit for basically letting the market run its course.”

            What a load of bullshit!

            If the blank, unchecked and free-running market forces did everything China has achieved today, why didnt it worked out that good in Africa? Or in India?

            With this sentence alone, you established yourself as a fucking disgusting libertarian fuckwit. Go suck Milton Friedman’s rotting dick in hell, you sick fuck! You’re probably an americunt too, not that it makes it any better, but at least i can understand and fully grasp your idiocy.

            Successful economic development relies on more than just to let the chaotic market-forces run free. If it was like that, Somalia would be the pearl of Africa and not its absolute shithole.
            Successful development needs state-directed guidance, public-goods sanctioned by a strong govt. and most importantly, infrastructure investments and lots of far-sighted planning and experimentations of different models of development. All which cannot be done in CHina without technocrats in the CCP declaring cities like Shenzhen as experimental zones, while investing into giant infrastructure projects to connect the different provinces with each other to actually make use for all the capitalist forces.
            The result of that is even that despite Chinese worker’s wages rising, many western enterprises still cannot move out of China to other countries, because those other third-world nations with cheap labour do not even have the fucking roads and electricity required for their factories to function at all! But in your evil stupid China, those are all provided and accounted for since the CCP does more than just letting the market run free, but actually plan ahead to guide those market-forces for the benefit of national development.

            God. Why is this site filled with such a giant amount of degenerated shitheads and pretentious fuckers who think that throwing around buzzwords like democracy and freedom can get them any pussy, not to mention be instantly decleared as ‘public intellectual’? And there are even people stupid and ignorant enough to praise these fuckheads.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            i m with bomber here too *pat on the back*

            HongJian – shudup

          • Hongjian

            Too much truth for you?

            In the end, you ideologues are all the same. You preach against commie ideolology, but in the end you are just as brainwashed as anyone else believing in dogmatic bullshit.

            “free thoughts” my ass.

            “Free Thoughts” became a dogma you blindly believe in without even knowing what that means anymore, just like tribal primitives dancing around a totem shaped like a giant dick with wings without even knowing what that symbolizes anymore due to their illiteracy.

            Disgusting lots. All of you.

          • Nick in Beijing

            Bomber — Well said! Truly!

          • 平凡人

            bomber, well said. CCP does everything for face value only; nothing concrete which will take China to the next level in the years to come. Having only one party and few powerful people controlling the whole country can be very dangerous. Like you, I have been in China for many years, corruption will bring this country down; petty ones don’t, really massive ones.
            The leaders are either alone in China (their family members are already overseas) or their family holding high positions in companies which controls a major portion of China’s economy.

        • Winter B4 Spring

          1st question, answered in my long winded reply below.
          2nd question, yes.
          3rd question, also answered in my long winded thoughts below.
          Let me remind you that today, we’re in 2012. And ROC is no longer one party. And that’s what many Chinese are looking forward to a free China, and not one-party-PRC. (THINK FUCKING DAMMIT. THINK!!!!)
          =]

          • asdf

            Oh sure, it’s easy to point at problems, but do you have a solution? How do we satisfy the Chinese craving for “freedom”.
            By overthrowing the tyrannical “party” and setting up a democracy?
            you really think that will solve china’s problems with corruption and inequality?

            The Chinese people are once again desperate to be free from foreign control, and thus any form of revolt will only liberate them, temporarily on the surface. However, this will be the next downfall of China. Soon afterwards the same problems will resurface, the illusion of “freedom” will fade away, and after two whole cycles of establishment and overthrow, they’ll just be back to square one all over again. Only this time china will be divided up into smaller chunks, with its previous economic achievements tossed in the trash.

            This is exactly what western countries want to see.

          • Dr SUN

            yes I do asdf, return to the political republic system I en-visioned.

          • asdf

            Which so horribly failed in the first place.

          • Dr SUN

            only once the KMT under Gen Jiang jie shi and CPC under Mao highjacked it for their own interests.

          • asdf

            I highly admire the ROC. I admire Sun Yat Sen, and even Jiang jie shi for suppressing the communists. It’s a real tragedy that the sino-japanese war weakened the KMT’s power. But please i beg you to think about WHY the KMT was ruled by one party. Why were they only capable of establishing true democracy only after they fled to taiwan? China is a very difficult country to govern. Jiang at the time expressed that China was not ready for democracy, and what he said still holds true even until today. China is on the right path. If we overthrow its government now, we will only look back in regret as it flees to another island and establishes a democracy there, while the mainland is still ruled under one party. South korea did not evolve into a true democracy until its social and economic situation was improved to a certain extent. I don’t hate Sun, I don’t hate Jiang. I hate Mao for overthrowing a perfectly capable government. This cannot be allowed to happen again. China cannot afford to go through another revolution. You can’t deny that china is currently developing at a staggering pace. China’s current progress cannot be interrupted! I AM NOT SUPPORTING COMMUNISM, I’M SUPPORTING STABILITY AND UNITY WITHIN CHINA AND MY SUPPORT REMAINS THE SAME UNDER ANY CAPABLE CHINESE GOVERNMENT.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ asdf:
            Your reply to me here seems to have been copied and pasted from above, a strange mode of communication. I will thus not write a reply to your copied/pasted note as i have already answered them before.
            You then reply to Dr SUN that you aren’t supporting communism. But in a post above, you said you support communism.
            CCP is not a capable Chinese govt. CCP is communist. Communist were never stable. They’re cold-blooded.
            I was not emphasizing a revolution. i was hinting at a peaceful transition. I hope everything goes well with China in every sense, and that also benefits the world.
            China’s progress was not interrupted in the least. There is not progress, but regress. Economical progress is just a facade. True progress comes from the human spirit.
            South Korea had to go to war with the communist North to be free. It wasn’t peaceful. It was heartbreaking. And the South prospers by being free.

          • asdf

            That was an accident, i thought the first comment didn’t get posted so i saved a copy and reposted in a different place. I would’ve deleted my original comment if I could. At least i didn’t plagiarize entire speeches from another website.

            Stop using the word “free”. That word has already lost its meaning in the context of politics. Every war is fought for freedom, every revolution is made for freedom.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ asdf: Ok, I could (try to) stop using the word “free”. But all humans want it, feel it, dream of it. Not saying it doesn’t mean people don’t crave for “it”. =P
            And yes, true, the communist that came to power in 1949 also propagated “free”, in terms of being free from imperialists.
            Assuming if i did plagiarize these words from another webpage, i must have done a fantastic job getting the info from a fantastic webpage. I could introduce some to our commentators here =]

        • Anon E Moose

          One Party System Incompetent ?

          Umm… let’s check it out shall we ?

          Great leap Forward – 18 to 45 million dead Chinese by CCP policies

          Cultural Revolution – 2 to 7 million deaths, millions more persecuted for what Chinese take for granted today.

          Tibet – A full 10% of local population killed. This would definitely pass as a form of genocide & ethnic cleansing today

          Rural Purges of “counter-revolutionaries” 1946-1949, 2.5 million

          Urban purges of “counter-revolutionaries” 1950-1957 1+ million

          Prison Camps – 20 million

          Source: http://www.thefrisky.com/2010-08-13/the-tktk-worst-guys-on-the-internet-a-history/

          and it doesn’t stop there. What about the CCP drive to industrialize and create factories powered by coal ? How many tens of millions are going to die because of the effects of pollution ?

          So if HK people are complaining about the CCP, that’s kind of like someone complaing to a Serial Killer while they are being stabbed in the Face.

          CCP has the dubious distinction of killing more Chinese citizens than the Japanese during WWII, matching the same as the Russian CP for killing more Russians than Hitler.

    • Winter B4 Spring

      Chinese loves the country and the culture. They love to be free from the shackles of communism. They acknowledge their ancestor, the Yellow Emperor. Chinese want a better life, if they could, and if they can’t, at least they look forward to peace.
      Communists, the ones who so arrogantly raise their voice and weapons against their own people, and their neighbours, are ungrateful. Many had forgotten their roots, and thus loved the shackles of communism imprisoning their conscience, while possessing the nation.
      The red flag of communism, with the hammer and sickle, has nothing to do with being Chinese. That red, is the red of the innocent chinese lives that have all been killed during peace time, by the communist party. This death rate had exceeded the death rate of World War 1 & 2 combined. The hammer and sickle are weapons of repression.
      Loving the party ≠ Loving the Country
      Chinese Communist Party (CCP) ≠ China

      • sm

        If the above comments are all you said, then you have a really good grasp on CCP. And I 100% agree with you .

        • Winter B4 Spring

          haha…group hug =P

      • Zappa Frank

        the communist party also dirve out form stravation 1 bilion of people..

        jiang jie shi during the 2° world war was too busy to hide in monuntains and to use weapons given by americans to fight commuist to care about japanase. He also had to be kidnapped close to xi’an by his own generals in order to let him have a meeting with communist in order to fight jappanase.. that he didn’t do by the way.take a look..really a great man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek

        He’s administration was recognize as highly corrupted and inefficent even by americans… In Taiwan he get sucess, of course, with the help of USA all country get success like Japan after 2°world war, Korea, Hongkong lived by British support.. China did all by itslef, with a huge population.
        It’s not that i want protect the communist party, i can’t care less.. but this manicheistic vision of the world is absurd.

        • Dr SUN

          yes lets not forget “the great leap backwards” and “cultural revolution” great successes in genocide and slavery

        • Winter B4 Spring

          Yeah, i can agree on the first half.
          The Chinese people did it themselves. The party closed its borders and stayed backwards, then starved the chinese people to death during the “big leap forward”.
          Since opening to the outside world, Chinese people made good money and better their lives. Not the party. The party decided to oppress less on the economical side, and took credit for being less oppressive. Yet, not all Chinese is doing alright. The gap between rich and poor is terribly obvious. Corruption in its raw forms are most rampant.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            Or, from another perspective, this is how the party works.
            When it opens its doors to a free economy, after years of repression, the people have to say “thank you”.
            When it criticizes anyone branded some made up term, the people have to say “thank you”.
            When it hits anyone for petitioning, the people have to say “thank you”.
            When it incarcerates anyone for having a religious belief, the people have to say “thank you”.
            When it rapes you for talking back at the authorities, the people have to say “thank you”.
            When it kills anyone for an independent thought, the people have to say “thank you”.
            When the party illegally harvest your organs for profit, your family have to say “thank you”.
            Whatever happens, the party is “Great and Glorious”, and that “The party is never wrong, if it s is wrong, it is still right., as it is a “socialist heaven on earth”.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            oh wait, now i understand the 1st part of your comment here. No i disagree. And no, i disagree. Commies caused the starvation of its people in the first place.

        • tai wai

          In Taiwan he get sucess, of course, with the help of USA all country get success like Japan after 2°world war, Korea, Hongkong lived by British support.. China did all by itslef, with a huge population.

          China hasn’t “done it” yet. It’s still a work in progress.

          Either way, this doublethink is aw inspiring.

          “Western imperialistic thought is no good for China! We should not follow the West!”

          “Honk Kong and Taiwan only did better than the mainland because they followed the West!”

          • Zappa Frank

            i’m not chinese, i think china should follow the west like taiwan, japan and korea did (maybe a bit better if possibile). but on the other side we have also to face that this will not be possibile. In order to get a good quality of life for all chiense people (at least good as taiwan), china would likely need so many resource that one earth would not be enought. So what is going to happen? competition for resources, material, energy, and so on… competition with who? first with closest countries, than with USA, europe… it think it’s pretty obvious..there are not enought resources for all if we want to live all in 1st class..

          • Winter B4 Spring

            what the… o.O …what are you talking about Zappa?! Complete gibberish!!

        • hess

          What the fuck did I just read?
          The red army were the ones hiding and saving their strength to win the civil war

          • Zappa Frank

            so you should read more hystory and less fiction.. read it again

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek

          • hess

            “n 1930, large-scale civil war broke out between warlords who had fought in alliance with the Kuomintang during the Northern Expedition and the central government under Chiang. In addition, the Chinese Communists (CCP, or Communist Party of China) revolted against the central government following a purge of its members by the KMT in 1927. The Chinese government diverted much attention into fighting these civil wars, following a policy of “first internal pacification, then external resistance”((Chinese): 攘外必先安内).”
            Oh wow, would you look at that.
            I like to believe that the history they teach in Sweden is the true one

          • Zappa Frank

            well you should at least tell me where it come from. anyway this little passage doesn’t make false the pages you can find on wikipedia..

          • hess

            It is from Wikipedia, just as the stuff you linked.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Communist_Party_of_China

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Chinese_Communist_Party_declarations

            “In 1972, when the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and Japan established formal diplomatic relationship, Mao Zedong met the then Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka. When Tanaka personally apologized to Mao for invading China, Mao responded: (You) don’t have to say sorry, your country had made a great contribution to China. Why? Because if Imperial Japan did not start the war, how could we communists become mighty and powerful? How could we overthrow KMT? How could we defeat Chiang Kai-shek? No, we are grateful and do not want your war reparations!.”

          • Winter B4 Spring

            haha. good one hess!!

            hey zappa, get it? it’s on wiki, the website you quoted. It mentioned that Mao is grateful to the Japs for invading China, cos then the communists can breed.

            Also, on the same page:
            “… Chinese Communists leader Mao Zedong outlined the preliminary plan for the CCP’s eventual seizure of power from Chiang Kai-shek. Mao began his final push for consolidation of CCP power under his authority, and his teachings became the central tenets of the CCP doctrine that came to be formalized as “Mao Zedong Thought”. The communists also began to focus most of their energy on building up their sphere of influence wherever opportunities were presented, mainly through rural mass organizations, administrative, land and tax reform measures favoring poor peasants; while the Nationalists attempted to neutralize the spread of Communist influence by military blockade of areas controlled by CCP and fighting the Japanese at the same time[24]”

            This means, in a nutshell, while the Kuomintangs were fighting Japanese on the fronts, the communists were recruiting!!

            wow! all for China huh? you really need to look clearly into your “side” of history again.

            =D

          • Winter B4 Spring

            …and Mao had some time on his hands then to write a book called the “Mao Zedong thought”, during war!!
            =.= That must be a lot of hard work in writing a book, compared to the Kuomintangs/Nationalists fighting Japanese

          • MassiveBender

            The Red Army were specifically targeted by the Japanese and Jiang Jieshi. Jiang often threatened the US that he would make a separate peace with Japan and Stilwell hated Jiang for attacking the Communists rather than Japanese.

            There is no way Mao and the CCP could have won the civil war, often only armed with farming tools, if JJ hadn’t been such an appalling tyrant and the CCP weren’t credited with doing most of the fighting with the Japanese. Although GMD suffered greater casualties from the war, that is to be expected as they commanded the national army. I don’t want to get into a war of wikis but anything by Lloyd Eastman is good on Nationalist era China.

        • Zappa Frank

          winter tell me how old are you, i guess no more than 16 right?
          seems to me you learnt history reading micky mouse comics..

          • Winter B4 Spring

            Dear Zappa, pls refer to hess’s comment above. Also, Wiki proves you wrong. Any books written independent of the communist party and thoughts, will contradict your claim.
            The communist party were the ones who ambushed the Kuomintangs, and was quietly happy, and then made it obvious, as quoted by Hess above (from Wiki), that the Japs invaded China.
            Kuomintang’s army was decimated, and thus the communists was able to chase em off, then claiming the party is “great and glorious” in the war.
            With regards to my age, i might be 13, but my knowledge of the above-mentioned part of Chinese history, is not wrong.
            Try:
            Mao: The Unknown Story (authored by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday)
            The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression (authored by several European academics and edited by Stéphane Courtois, also presented to the European Parliament)

          • Winter B4 Spring

            Zappa, i can’t help to notice, that your perceived side of Chinese history seems to favour the communists, and thus validating their history of (as was mentioned in this post many times) the repression and murders of more Chinese people during peace time, than World War 1 & 2 combined.
            You may further your arguments on contradicting history, but i can’t possibly waste more time acknowledging your comments on a distorted form of history, favouring the Chinese communist party.

          • MassiveBender

            Zappa, I can’t help notice that your comments are informed and accurate. Chinasmack has no place for such trolling.

    • lonetrey

      omg, TL;DR EVERYTHING under this post.

      Simple opinion of mine: I feel like it was a choice of the lesser of two evils? British rule vs. Communist rule….

      • tai wai

        omg, TL;DR EVERYTHING under this post.

        Reading is hard.

        • Dripping Third Leg

          Hey What you sinophobes doing under my post here ? We are talking about hong kong dogs refusing to be called Chinese and being patriotic, aren’t we ?!!!

          • Dr SUN

            Where are wiener and brett when you need them !!.

            MIA at the same time, again ????

          • mr. wiener

            Went surfing for the weekend. Next time I’ll leave you kids the keys to the liquor cabinet.

          • Dr SUN

            Got it you and Brett went surfing together!!

            or is there a clone of wiener called Brett, or a clone of Brett called wiener, it’s disturbing.

            I think most of us have seen the similarity in their grammar, syntax, typing and content, which one is the real one ?

    • markus

      Dripping Third Leg
      QUOTE
      “Hongkong dogs have all electricity, water supply and capital pumping from mainland but they don’t feel a shred of gratitude, they despise, disparage and detest mainlanders. Now they even refuse to be Chinese and patriotic. ”

      I understand you are saying this from a mainlanders point of view but i still want to say this..

      Do you have any idea how much money both Macau and HK pay mainland China for the water and electric!?! fuck loads!! yes thats right, the deal is better for the mainland than HK and Macau but what other choice do they have.. they dont GIVE them they SELL them!

      • Dripping Third Leg

        Well, I can’t think of any other source of water and electricity they can buy.hahah .That’s rather pathetic

    • oOWOo

      But why hong kong dogs didn’t stand up against british colonists back then

      Forgot the riots in the 60s? Otherwise British education was not about one party rule…

    • Someone

      If you know any history about Hong Kong at all, there was indeed an anti-colonial riot in 1967 against the British rule. This event forced the British to finally start implementing social reform in the 1970s and one of them was the formation of the ICAC to stop corruption. The British had thought about making Hong Kong independent before 1997 but that plan was not possible to carry over and was later scrapped.

      Even thought the British colonial rule was less than ideal of a real democracy, the British had provided a stable and effective governance of Hong Kong that allowed Hong Kong to flourish in a free and liberal society. The British had put Hong Kong on the world map with a high affiliation with the UK. Now that Hong Kong part of China again, it has just become another ‘Chinese city’ on the international ranking. I cringe every time when ever I have to add the word ‘China’ after Hong Kong like some cheap product with a Made in China label on it.

  • Dr SUN

    With the awful educational system in the PRC (mainland) I can fully understand anyone resisting this.

    • asdf

      you are destroying Dr SUN’s reputation please change your name and profile picture.

      • Dr SUN

        It’s not the same republic is it.

        • jeffli

          Dr. Sun did “pander” to imperialist Japan. check his history.

          • Dr SUN

            you calling me a Panda ?

      • Winter B4 Spring

        asdf, you are bringing shame to your Chinese ancestors. Stop speaking on behalf of the foreign born communist party that killed more Chinese during peace time, compared to World War 1 & 2 combined. Quit the party, please.
        =]

        • asdf

          “communist party that killed more Chinese during peace time, compared to World War 1 & 2 combined” Quit the idiocy, please.

          • HeSaidSheSaid

            1. The education here is abysmal. I have spoken with HUNDREDS of people here, and roughly 99% with give me an IDENTICAL answer to any of my questions. It’s kind of like Children of the Corn. Why do you like noodles?: THEY ARE DELICIOUS (As a chorus) What do you like to do when you’re not working?: PLAY COMPUTER (Chorus)
            Creative thinking is frowned upon. I’ve even been told that in school when a question is worded: ‘What do you THINK of xxx?’ that there is a standardized answer. i.e.: What you think is what I tell you to think.
            2. China has killed more of it’s own people than World War 1 & 2. It’s not even up for debate, mate, it’s a fact. Why don’t you research it? Oh that’s right! You’ve been told what to think and have no intention of ever checking the facts for yourself!

          • Zappa Frank

            Do you realize that you simply got stupid answers because you asked stupid questions?
            why do you like noodles? is like asking why do you like hamburger/pizza/rice/and so on.. come on, is it really a question?
            What do you like to do when you’re not working? playing computer.. an activity done by most of people. For sure in china most don’t have any real hobby, that’s true.. i think is because the scholastic system don’t let them have any free time and have to start an hobby after graduation while working is not easy.

          • asdf

            SURE, OVERTHROW THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT AND SEE HOW WELL THESE PROBLEMS WILL IMPROVE. GO AHEAD. I DON’T CARE ANYMORE.

            FIRST OF ALL YOU CAN’T
            SECOND OF ALL EVEN IF YOU DO OVERTHROW THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, THESE PROBLEMS, IF THEY DO EXIST, WILL ONLY WORSEN.

            LOOK AT THE ECONOMY AND TECHNOLOGICAL INNOVATION OF THE SOVIET UNION COMPARED TO THE NOW PATHETIC RUSSIA. DID THEIR CORRUPTION DECREASE AT ALL? NO!

          • Winter B4 Spring

            thk u for repeating my point. Quit being a recalcitrant, please.

          • http://www.bestvpninchina.com Rod

            @HeSaidSheSaid

            What about, “What are you going to do this weekend?”

            “Sleep”

            …or…

            “Why (insert question)?”

            “No Why”

          • Winter B4 Spring

            The Russia today is corrupt due to Putin. Putin is ex-KGB, of the former communist USSR, and hearsay has it that he utilizes ex-KGB method in governing his country. Russians today are migrating overseas whenever they could. I had a chat with a lady who just arrived from Russia, with her family. I was casually making a comment, “oh Putin is a well-known man.” After a long pause, she replied, “not so much the ‘well’ than it is the ‘known’.” Boris Yeltsin & Mikhail Gorbachev, both former leaders of present day Russia, dislikes his authoritarianism.
            Next, if i have to repeat, i have not once specified overthrowing the Chinese govt. I believe you thought so because communist propagandas had thought you that is what happens when CCP looses control of China. I believe in peaceful transition. But for that to happen, Chinese people must resist communism. In fact, i am starting to see a pattern of resistance, in many forms, by many groups. I wish it to be peaceful. I wish China well. Unfortunately, Chinese police hit, kill, kidnap & torture people who dares to speak up in public.
            Problems in China will NOT worsen from change. The argument you presented was again another well-known propaganda by the CCP.
            “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” Edmund Burke 1729-1797.
            Countries change governments, and people’s lives move on. In China, the govt maintains one party dictatorial rule, and look at the protests and appeals happening everyday.

          • A GUY

            As much as I dislike and love to point out the inequities and hypocrisies of the CCP, I would like to say that this conversation is a little polarized. I like to think that most of the leaders of the CCP are people that are trying to do what they think is best for their country. I think that they are misguided in some efforts and lack a fundamental trust in their people. I believe that this mistrust drives their oppressive and often comical attempts at controlling their people and asserting their authority. The comical implementation of propaganda training in HK is just another example of this. The HK people have a right to resist it and the failure and success of that resistance should rely on their will to do so. I believe that Democracy will prevail here as it always will. As for China as a whole I have suspicions that the CCP is having an ongoing internal debate about democracy and it’s place in China’s future. I hope that debate is more about how fast or slow to implement democracy than to it’s merits at all, but who knows. I harbor no hate for them nor do I equate them with the failures of Mao, just as I don’t hold Mayingjiu responsible for the failures of ChangKaichek. I wish them and all the people of China the best, and I hope China can find solutions to their complex political problems on their own. No need to pull out the past atrocities card, cause all parties have a few on their heads. (CCP, ROC, UK, US, etc…)

            I know i’m to as guilty as you all are to this, and I should try to be less inflammatory in my speech as well.

          • Hongjian

            >Boris Yeltsin & Mikhail Gorbachev, both former leaders of present day Russia, dislikes his authoritarianism.

            Confirmed of knowing shit about Russia.

            Gobachev and Yeltsin are the very reason why Russia is so damn destroyed and ruled by oligarchy as they are knowadays. They sold out their entire country and industry to western investors, who just amputated and broke in into pieces, leaving nothing but despair in the country. Human life-expectancy dropped significantly and alcoholism rose sky high during the reign of these two ass-hats. Putin is the only one attempting to fix that shit, but intellectuals, as always, dont care about the suffering of the masses and only care whether they can write their pretentious bullshot on the internet to attention-whore themselves. This is why they hate him.

            Man, you should just stop. Your ignorance really shows.

          • HeSaidSheSaid

            @Zappa Frank
            Yeah you kind of made my point for me there, mate. It’s the lack of free time, therefore hobbies, which is exactly what I’m talking about. Sooooo, thanks for backing me up :) HOWEVER, they spend FAR more time on their computers than people in other countries, when they could be writing/learning new skills/making music/etc. etc. etc. so it’s not realllllly an excuse. I’ve worked jobs doing close to 80 hours a week before and still had time for sports AND hobbies, and I’m no superhuman. That excuse just doesn’t fly, buddy. They aren’t encouraged to have any hobbies, that is the problem.
            And also, those are OBVIOUSLY not the only two questions I asked numbnuts. Would you like to me list the thousands that I have asked? Those are just the first two that popped into mind. Anyway, in other countries, even if people’s second languages you would get slightly varied answers, eg: noodles are soft/they make me warm/my mother’s are best/me no likey meat. No, you get a chorus of the EXACT SAME ANSWER EVERY TIME FROM EVERY PERSON FOR EVERY QUESTION.

          • HeSaidSheSaid

            @Rod
            This guy, this guy gets it!

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ Hong Jian: now that i have attracted your attention, and wrath – mission accomplished! thank you! i disagree with the points you made. i believe they are flawed. =]

          • jin

            @winter i disagree with the points you made. i believe they are flawed.
            good reply right? you disagree and believe they are flawed, yet you dont say why.

  • ChinaPrat

    If Britain had colonised the whole of China then everywhere would be as good as Hong Kong.

    • Zappa Frank

      it’s a bit naive think in this way. A colonization of a large area cannot be done in the same way.

    • asdf

      yeah just look at the whole of India. They’re so “good”
      WHY ARE THERE SO MANY IDIOTS. FUCK…..

      • Winter B4 Spring

        Yeah! Just look at the whole of China today. They’re so good!! The whole world wants to migrate there for a better life. Forget America, forget Europe, forget Australia. All refugees of the world! Unite! China – the land of the prosper. Flock to communist China for a better life, better job, avoid repression, free speech, independent thoughts, free journalism, highest protection of property rights and copyrights.
        WHY ARE THERE SO MANY IDIOTS. FUCK…..

        • asdf

          My point is that a country’s living standards are independent from whether or not its democratic.
          whats your point?
          what are you debating against?
          your comment is just a disgusting display of american arrogance.
          “i dont care about what you’re arguing about, america is better than both india and china”

          • Winter B4 Spring

            OIC. Now i understand. I didn’t understand your arrogant sarcasm. Sorry.
            Also, sorry, me no american =] for all you know , i am as Chinese as Chinese are =D woohoo!!!
            I have not heard of Americans implying, “i dont care about what you’re arguing about, america is better than both india and china,” besides possibly red necks. red necks — c’mon!! no one takes em seriously.

          • Zappa Frank

            you’re not a redneck? are you a hillbilly than?

          • Winter B4 Spring

            A Zappa: :) I will leave the above-decision to you (re if i am a hillbilly), just as it is everyone’s decision, as individuals, to choose the path of conscience, or illusions. Where i live, we were thought to express our views, but others are allowed to come to their own conclusions.
            I must say though, i do notice that you use mockeries, then engage in questions, then engage in insults, further engage in seemingly critical thinking, but at the end, you would come up with “I am not Chinese but…” and act as an apologist for the communist. =] Seems to be a pattern.
            When you have the opportunity to prove someone else wrong, you continuously engage in mockeries, just on that particular possible mistake. Which is, in my opinion, strange, but still could be ignored, since, personally, i have no interest in attending to insults. However, when you were proven wrong, you’ll completely disregard the subject and further engage in other issues that you deem worth a bonus point for the communist party, and then re-engage in strange personal attacks. o.O (??)

        • Zappa Frank

          than i wonder why so many americans come in china every year..

          • lonetrey

            I’m not sure that sort of logic would help you… the comparison of Chinese people going to America versus the amount of Americans going to China.

            Plus, I really don’t think Americans normally immigrate to China to start new lives with better opportunity, as opposed to Chinese immigrants moving to America…

          • asdf

            we’re not comparing america with china. we’re comparing democracies to one party rule. In terms of economy, prosperity, and corruption, there’s no relationship whatsoever. Chinese people immigrate to america just as Filipinos and Russians immigrate to China. If democracy was so great, Chinese people would be immigrating to russia and the Philippines as well as america.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ adsf:
            Yes, Chinese people migrate in HUGE numbers to America, Europe and Australia. In Australia, i read on the Statistical Bureau that Chinese is the most spoken language after English. In America, Chinese is 3rd, after…i think it was Latin. Migration included workers, marriage, family, asylum seekers, etc.
            Also, many Chinese people today are living in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.
            All these migration started about since 1989, Tiananmen Massacre. Hasn;t stopped till now.
            I wasn’t comparing, either. I was emphasizing the ills of communism, and its toxicity to every nation it possesses. And hopes the Chinese people withdraw from the communist party and its affiliated organizations.

          • bigj

            Absolute power leads to absolute curruption…

          • Zappa Frank

            Chinese immigration started after 1989?
            Latin (sic) second language spoked in USA?
            there’s some confusion maybe

          • Winter B4 Spring

            …spot on bigj, spot on…

          • Winter B4 Spring

            Zappa Frank, smart ass, you troll on.

            I said all “these” immigrations…meaning the huge numbers. Chinese immigration would have started a long time before the Ming Dynasty, as i am sure you know of.

            No confusion. Go look into the American researches. You try to discredit me, for a reason.

            1 – jealous of my free thoughts, as you find yourself less bright in terms of Chinese contemporary history.
            2 – you have an ulterior motive.

            =] (oops i mentioned the word “free” here)

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            I go to the toilet every time I need to take a dump. Who cares why people go to wherever?

            (ps: Not equating China to a toilet for me to shit in. Merely providing illustration for the point I made in the second sentence. Please relax)

          • Dr SUN

            Spoken only like a cat could }p

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            You don’t know a good squat until you’ve felt that medium-grain, lavender-scented kitty litter between your toes.

          • Dr SUN

            Whiskers, every time I visit a public toilet here in China, I am going to dream of this.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            I aim to purrrlease (it’s like “please” but with “purr” to keep with the “I’m a cat” theme)

          • Zappa Frank

            winter you don’t need to be discredit by anyone, you already doing all the job by yourself, by chinese history and also american situation that i hope is not your country, because i’ve never seen an american so ignorant…”latin” is the second language spoken in USA? Latin is a dead language by far!! Maybe you mean Spanish..
            i’m not jelous of any freedom or speach, morover i’m not chinese, but seems sometime you’re not able to read.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ Zappa, sorry, you are right, Spanish, possibly, not latin. Thank you for noticng that error of mine. Having said that, i stand by the other facts i have mentioned.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            Apologizing when i am wrong, i am humbled. However, the side of perceived “Chinese history” you read, isn’t real, but concocted by the communists. I have referenced 2 research on this matter, and YOU have referenced Wiki to Hess, in which you discredited yourself. And you remained very quiet on not responding to your wrong reference and wrong “facts”.
            You were discrediting me because you “choose” to do so for a reason.
            But thank you for providing such a opportunity for a debate. I’d possibly leave things here and others may make a decision based on what has been debated.
            =]

  • Freak on a Mountain

    I’ve been teaching in China for 10 years, and I haven’t yet met a student who doesn’t openly despise his/her ‘politics’ class. If it’s brainwashing, it’s not working. But the difference is that in Hong Kong, the people rise up and throw their anger in the government’s face. Mainlanders have the same opinion, but are more timid.

    • Ander

      “Timid” is such a polite word!

      • tai wai

        I’d go with “impotent.”

    • Winter B4 Spring

      yup, cos they don’t want the public security bureau or the 610 office to turn up, not at their doorsteps, but crashing into their house, beat the crap out of everyone, overturn everything, pocket all the money, then realise — oops, its the next door neighbour they were after, then again, crashing into the house, beat the crap out of everyone, overturn everything, pocket all the money, torture them till the brink of extinction, bring em back to live, just so they get tortured again by the commie officers, cos these commies cops are inhumane and sadistic, and finally, force them to sign some repentance form.
      The “People’s” Republic of China, a dream country to migrate to if you enjoy stifled freedom. Or the “Democratic” Republic of Korea, aka North Korea, where repression thrives.
      =P

      • jin

        stop talking shit winterboy. have you been in china? have you lived in china? you have no right to talk about a country untill you have been there yourself.

        • Dr SUN

          jin, Jin, asdf , why cant you just stay with one profile ?

          • jin

            oh wow, so when some people agree with eachother, they are the same person?

  • Castro

    anybody know pinyin for ‘missing in action’ ?

    feng weihua

  • Vonskippy

    I don’t get why Hong Kong is so picky.

    Just look at Mainland China. A huge prosperous communist country where all of it’s great prosperity and money is equally shared among it’s equally hard working communist members.

    Oh wait……. never mind.

    • Dr SUN

      LOL

    • Alejandro

      yeah…indeed…here’s your 50cent ; )

  • tai wai

    The Party, politics, and nation have always been different categories, the Chinese government deliberately conflates them together.

    Very astute.

    And this brainwashing does work, whether these people want to admit it or not. I’ve been in situations where I’ll argue some policy, and they (80s generation) act as if I just insulted their grandmothers.

    How dare a foreigner question (insult) the Party (Chinese people)?!

    • grovesman

      It’s kind of like I can say shit about my family but if anyone else dares to say shit about my family, then it’s on!

      I’ve been in China for about 6 years now and I rarely run into people getting pissed off at my observations of the country/party. They are occasionally embarrassed that an outsider understands the underbelly of the culture/society, but rarely want to have a go about it.

      • tai wai

        It’s kind of like I can say shit about my family but if anyone else dares to say shit about my family, then it’s on!

        Kinda like that. Except the Party IS NOT THEIR FAMILY.

        That’s my point. The brainwashing works, they’ve been taught to defend the Party like they would their own crazy uncle.

        I’ve been in China for about 6 years now and I rarely run into people getting pissed off at my observations of the country/party. They are occasionally embarrassed that an outsider understands the underbelly of the culture/society, but rarely want to have a go about it.

        Pissed off isn’t the word I’d use. More like “displeased.”

      • Winter B4 Spring

        The communist party is German, imported from USSR, into China. It is no grandma or grandpa to any Chinese. It is more a ghostly possession that cursed China since 1949. The ancestor of the Chinese people is the Yellow Emperor. The ancestor of the communist party is the dude called Karl Marx. So technically, if someone comes to me and tells me off about someone else’s ancestor who had bred genocides and murders, eg Hitler, i’d say, “good on ya!” =D

        • Dr SUN

          actually if you look at the past leaders, most studied in France first.

          just saying

          • Winter B4 Spring

            hmmm, you could be right, i go check, but thanks for letting me know :)

    • asdf

      Sure, go to the united states and question their policy of enforcing “freedom and democracy” in the middle east. I’m sure you will start a very intellectually stimulating discussion.

      • asdf

        and end up with a broken nose.

        • Winter B4 Spring

          factually untrue

          • jin

            when you disagree with something, you explain WHY you disagree. unless you dont know…..

      • tai wai

        Were you to go there and say the government is wrong in it’s policy, I think you’d find plenty of support. Because people argue about government policy all the time.

        Well, unless they’re going through another post 9/11 “You’re either with us or with the terrorists” phase.

        • asdf

          we see lots of disagreement among chinese people as well. Why do you think censorship is so tight on weibo?

          • tai wai

            Fair enough. But I think the premise still holds.

            American complaining about American policy: Perfectly acceptable. Foreigner complaining about American policy: Somewhat acceptable.

            Chinese complaining about Chinese policy: Somewhat acceptable. Foreigner complaining about Chinese policy: Totally unacceptable.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            1 – to stiffle freedom by censorship .
            2 – to keep the CCP from drowning in criticisms.
            3 – to hold back another mass scale demonstrations, which is already happening everyday as we speak.
            4 – to continuously promote the persecution of other groups within China.
            5 – to keep the people from knowing the truth of the world.
            6 – to minimize exposures of corruption within the rank and files, from top to bottom of the party hierarchy.
            7 – to continue making money from corruption, then moving the money out of the country, for future use, when the officials decide that it is time to do a runner.
            8 – i could go on but you all get the drift, huh

          • Capt. WED

            LOL WinterB4Spring.

            7 – to continue making money from corruption, then moving the money out of the country, for future use, when the officials decide that it is time to do a runner.

            Your so called democracy society funnels greater amount of money than both GDP of US and Japan combined. LOL. Greed is not a China only thing. The reality is capitalist west is better at corruption.

            You liberals talk a big game.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ Captain WED: maybe! =] but i don’t know what you meant by “my so-called democracy society”. I am no liberal, possibly a leftist, but not a Marxist. i am anti-communist. Not due to politics per se, but for its tortures, lies and deaths. And yes, factually true when you mention greed isn’t a China thing. I have not mentioned that either.

          • Dr SUN

            Winter and Tai wai summed it up quite nicely

          • Winter B4 Spring

            haha i give the credit to Tai *humble bow* *boo ya*

          • donscarletti

            Foreigners have got the most right to complain about American policy, since they’re most likely to be bombed.

            Also, nobody cares what foreigners think or say about Chinese policy, why do you think this site is not banned in China?

      • Winter B4 Spring

        …factually true…

    • Zappa Frank

      what is your country? if a foreigner come and start to insult your polticians and complain about your country poitic and habits what would you likely do? You’ll say “ok ok you’re right” or you’ll be pissed off and say something like “why don’t you back in your country?” Now think not about you but about a person in your country who’s never gone abroad. What do you think he’ll reply?

      • tai wai

        I’m an American. I expect foreigners to hate us.

        • Zappa Frank

          We’re not talking about you, you’re not the “normal” american, you’re living abroad, you get info about other countries , you talk with people from other countries, and so on….. Let’s talk about some “traditional” americans of the countryside, never been abroad, probably never been out of their own state, the ones with the flag in the garden, sunday bbq, the apple pie, a rifle always ready and so on.. do you think their answers would be any different than normal chinese?
          Most of chinese, in their way, are traditional. Most of them never been abroad (i think most never been outside their province)…
          so tell me, you really think are so different americans and chinese?

          And chinese also hear talk bad about their country for any reason, tibet, taiwan, economy, enviroment, and so on. We say “it’s not that we complain about china and chinese, we complain about your politicians”, you think that makes a difference?

          • Capt. WED

            LOL. Logic?

            Oh please Americans hates foreigners as much as they claim other people hate them. Liberal Americans always act like the US consists of nothing but liberals with a tiny minority of “non liberals”.

            FYI 46% in US still believes in creationism. How is that related? LOL. You tell me liberal.

          • Capt. WED

            American is a country of fucking racist “liberals”. It’s a country of liberals that think other people as subhumans. Get real.

          • Capt. WED

            LOL. We know you are a facist country & facist culture. That’s okay cos other cultures are facist too. The thing is you always fake as fuck acting like you are not facist. Fuck you you liberal fucks.

          • tai wai

            Let’s talk about some “traditional” americans of the countryside, never been abroad, probably never been out of their own state, the ones with the flag in the garden, sunday bbq, the apple pie, a rifle always ready and so on.. do you think their answers would be any different than normal chinese?

            Fair enough. Ignorant Americans are ignorant. And cosmopolitan Chinese are cosmopolitan.

            And chinese also hear talk bad about their country for any reason, tibet, taiwan, economy, enviroment, and so on. We say “it’s not that we complain about china and chinese, we complain about your politicians”, you think that makes a difference?

            But, shouldn’t it make a difference? There is a difference, unless the government’s policies (On Tibet, the environment, whatever) are seen by the Chinese people as part of their Chinese identity.

            Which is a frightening concept. But, hey, I guess that’s what propaganda is for, after all.

          • Capt. WED

            that’s the problem. People & government are connected. You can’t have one without the other. Yeah let’s have a government without people guys

            Again Liberals acting like everything is made up of liberalism.

          • tai wai

            American is a country of fucking racist “liberals”. It’s a country of liberals that think other people as subhumans.

            You do realize that “liberals” tend to be more for hierarchy-attenuating policies – that is to say, more egalitarian beliefs.

            No, wait, what am I saying, of course you don’t.

          • asdf

            HUMANITY IS RETARDED END OF DISCUSSION.

          • Capt. WED

            LOL Tai Wai. When a conservative hate you they have a basis in their core beliefs. They’re not inconsistent.

            BUt when a liberal hate you, they’re being completely fake & inconsistent. OH but liberals can’t hate you! Cos we’re liberals!

            Liberalism is inconsistent that’s why they’re fucked up. I hate them.

          • tai wai

            Liberalism is inconsistent that’s why they’re fucked up. I hate them.

            Hey, more power to you. Nobody likes hypocrite.

            How’s this for a consistent, core belief: “Everyone should be treated as equals, when possible.” Do you agree or disagree?

          • Capt. WED

            When possible huh? How often? What is the basis for deciding “when possible”?

            Versus My culture & myself is at the forefront, therefore I look out for #1, that’s not to say I won’tl throw you a bone here and there as long as we understand I’m first.

            One is consistent whenever and wherever, the other is inconsistent.

          • Capt. WED

            Equality is an illusion.

            You are equal before the law. In reality law is a logic system and thus susceptible to inconsistency. So no true equality there. It’s also subject to injection of human bias. SO no equality there.

            You are equal as a human being. On a large societal level there is ingroups and outgroups, so really no equality there. On a person to person, there is also no equality as my friend is more equal than strangers. You are only as equal as your group and your equals in the hierarchy.

            Country and country is equal. Really now? So one country buttfuck invade another country, countries are equal?

            Equality is a liberal illusion. Fuck I hate liberals ;)

            I mean I’m a “liberal” I guess. But fuck liberalism is stupid. Our system it’s completely inconsistent. We suck.

          • tai wai

            When possible huh? How often? What is the basis for deciding “when possible”?

            Yeah, I knew you’d jump on that to dodge the meat of the question.

            “When possible” is a caveat for things like personal ability, etc. Not everybody is capable of being a doctor. Most women aren’t as strong as men, and thus can’t do the same kinds of physical jobs (though many can!). You get the idea.

            Basically, after controlling for different strengths, weaknesses, ability, etc., do you think people should all be treated pretty much equally?

            Or should there be a social hierarchy?

            See, I ask this because you were complaining that liberals “look down” on others. So, it seems you favor equality. Which, of course, makes you a liberal.

          • tai wai

            I mean I’m a “liberal” I guess. But fuck liberalism is stupid. Our system it’s completely inconsistent.

            Fair enough.

            To be fair, we’re pretty bad at implementing any political system that we create, other than “rob from the poor.”

          • Capt. WED

            Yeah but it’s not like that in reality. Even when controlling those factors people are still not equal. Also by the very fact you need to control those factors means there is no equality.

            Tomorrow I will list some examples like welfare which is supposed to be equal in the everyone who apply are equal, in reality some part of may be equal but other parts of the system is not equal. Equality by definition just doesn’t work in the face of reality. I have to go now.

        • Winter B4 Spring

          woooOOooh, Captain WED, ok, ok, we know you hate Americans, especially Liberals. =P

          • Winter B4 Spring

            Wait, Capt WED, i am confused. You believe equality is an illusion. So do i. You believe equality is a lie. So do i.
            Having said that, Liberals in my country has never propagated “equality”. I believe they love INequality, as the politicians themselves are at a higher stratum of society. Very high pay too, actually indecent , if i have to make my point clear.
            Which then makes you a Liberal??
            Cos actually, “equality” is a communist lie, and a lie by itself as there exist no such thing on the surface of any societies.
            Hey Tai Wai, i’ll leave this debate to you, cos i dont understand Capt WED for now =D
            (lucky you!!!)

      • asdf

        Go on any Foreign site and look at their comments.
        They hardly even make any reasonable comments such as
        “Your government requires such and such reforms”
        All i see are “You chinks eat dog”

        • tai wai

          Maybe, if by “foreign site,” you mean “Ask Yahoo,” “Youtube,” or, well, “Chinasmack.”

          The Internet is full of 12 year olds.

          • asdf

            and what do the reactions of these 12 year olds tell us about american education? How can innocent children harbour such a strong sense of hatred at such a young age? Could it be the result of propaganda?
            NO WAY AMERICA IS FREE hurr durr

          • tai wai

            How can innocent children harbour such a strong sense of hatred at such a young age?

            Were you ever 12? Kids are assholes.

            But I meant that as “The Internet is full of people that act like 12 year olds.”

          • Capt. WED

            tai wai lol you gonna tell me next but Chinese are hateful and stupid due to their culture ;)

          • A GUY

            Kids on the internet like to say mean stuff, if you were talking about cancer some dumb kid would say cancer was gods way of killing of the weak, and that’s the opposite of what American education tries to instill in them. The Anti-Chinese stuff comes from the same vein, the rest comes from the CCP’s alien world view and holdout opinions from the McCarthy era.

            A far cry and really incomparable to the forced fed pro CCP stuff that they are trying to force down HK kids throats.

        • Winter B4 Spring

          wooooooooooooooooooooooh

      • Winter B4 Spring

        “ok you’re right”

      • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

        Eh, it doesn’t bother me. Happens all the time. I generally agree with a lot of it. I mean, if someone hates LIVING in the US yet still continues to do so…then yes, a suggestion of leaving is in order. But that’s only because it’s the common sense answer to how to improve their daily life. If a Chinese guy comes up to me in the US and says “I hate Obama and the US government is bad”, my first (second, third, fourth, so on) reaction isn’t to go apeshit mad and tell him to leave the country.

        • Dr SUN

          I wonder how many people in real life walk up to a total stranger and say “I hate your….[insert name/ subject]”

          • tai wai

            Depends on how drunk they are.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Well, for argument’s sake, let’s say there’s a decent possibility that it might happen. However, in lieu of that, let’s just pretend I clarified that it could be an acquaintance as well. Or a drunk, as tai wai suggested.

          • Dr SUN

            drunks, ok give you that one

            As Winston said in response to being called drunk by a Lady

            “yes I am drunk and you are ugly, I however in the morning will be sober, you however will still be ugly” or something like that.

      • Getrealson

        very simple point mate, but so true! done it myself back home. But I hate anyone whining about a situation that A: they can’t fix or B: They got themselves into.

    • Winter B4 Spring

      agreed 101% =]

  • linette

    Terrifying. Reading the news every day in Hong kong and seeing how hk gov’t has to deal with the China gov’t in Beijing is just depressing. Hk is just so powerless. They are protesting and fighting holding on to their civil rights afraid that one day China gov’t will just use force to take it away.

    This re-education system can not be allowed to happen. Hk people can not allow the re-education camps to infiltrate the Hk public school system. This forced assimilation on hong kongese is just wrong. The China gov’t are doing it through our children.

    How long can Hk continue to hold out? China is replacing every thing in our land. More and more mainlanders move in and more and more native HKongese leave. Now they are replacing our school system. Terrifying! We will have to leave our land behind. Take our kids to another land to protect them from being assimilated and become brain dead.

    • tai wai

      This is a good post, btw.

      Not saying I agree or disagree, but it is thought provoking.

      • asdf

        ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

        • tai wai

          What, a guy isn’t allowed to be nice around here? She had a passionate argument.

          • asdf

            Passionate yes, but hardly reasonable.

  • Eddie

    Good for you Hong Kong! I was born on the mainland and our education system is a draconian joke, teaching our kids to worship the party and learn by memorization like robots. The longer you can keep that crap away from your schools, the better off your children will be!

    • Winter B4 Spring

      I’ll shake your hands anytime, Eddie, anytime =]

  • kodi

    Its nice to see people standing up united and saying “NO”! I feel so sorry and sad for the mainlanders who cannot escape this education system.

    The one thing that can make mainland education a little better is for the party to be ousted from power. Look at Taiwan and Hongkong. They are Chinese, but they seem to be doing so much better in terms of development and per capita everything instead of being treated like work animals for the party.

    • tai wai

      The more “outsiders” say “the only way for China to improve is to remove the Party from power,” the more tightly the Party will demonize or cut off outside viewpoints to maintain that power…

      It’s counterproductive, really.

      • kodi

        I will have to disagree with you on that one. Its takes more than just outsiders to say it. It takes everyone to say it. Perhaps it will start with people thinking it, then saying it, then doing something about it and making it a reality. Then the party can only hear the words, “See we told you so” when they watch power slip out of their tight grasp. Words don’t change anything only action. Those old bastards deserve to retire and give someone capable of governance a chance.

        • tai wai

          I will have to disagree with you on that one. Its takes more than just outsiders to say it. It takes everyone to say it.

          But, see, that’s the whole point. These people are trained to see their government as part of their identity. So when an outsider says it has flaws, they’ll say “no, there is no problem, go away please, stop insulting China!”

          So, everyone can’t say it. It’s impossible. Only they can.

          Words don’t change anything only action. Those old bastards deserve to retire and give someone capable of governance a chance.

          They will not go softly into this good night.

          “For change to happen, people must die.”

          • Chom

            “So, everyone can’t say it. It’s impossible. Only they can.”

            Exactly

            “But, see, that’s the whole point. These people are trained to see their government as part of their identity. So when an outsider says it has flaws, they’ll say “no, there is no problem, go away please, stop insulting China!””

            Then is true for many Chinese, however don’t assume its true for everyone. There are many educated Chinese who would hate outsiders telling them to get rid of their government; but not because they are brainwashed, its because they believe those people do not really care about Chinese people either and only want to serve their own countries interests. In their mind, if an outsider really cared about Chinese people, then overthrowing the government now is probably the worst thing to do.

            After all, who would want to give up a decent life and job just to get the right to vote and protest? For the moment, most Chinese value their security over these rights. That is a pragmatic decision by them.

          • Chom

            to clarify my last point: “After all, who would want to give up a decent life and job just to get the right to vote and protest?”

            To people who think they wouldn’t need to give up a decent life and job, they surely would, and what you said is correct:

            “They will not go softly into this good night.
            “For change to happen, people must die.””

            At the moment the majority of Chinese don’t think its worth it…

          • Guang Xiang

            A million times this. Quality of life in China, although with it’s many quirks, is noticeably improving. Heck, I’m happy with the amount of progress in such a short time.

      • Chom

        I agree with you in general tai wai

  • Zebadee

    This is the best thing for the people of HK. The Mainland can only roll-off production-line graduates who have been totally robbed of their critical, creative, and thinking skills. Most of the brain donors who sit in classrooms everyday know they’ll only be fit for factory / simple manual labor jobs in the future so even try to develop skills? The education system of any country is (broadly speaking) designed to meet the demands/needs of its economy type. That’s why everyone in China is either a farmer or factory worker. Low-paid, low-IQ, low-skilled, jobs to suit the type of economy that supports the country.

    Why do you think foreign companies come here?

    The ‘real’ Chinese-speaking talent working in China is “imported” from HK, Malaysia, and Singapore.

    • Zappa Frank

      so chinese mainlanders are mostly stupid, it’s not a lack of education, they’re just good for nothing. we really arrived at this point?

      • asdf

        Of course not! it’s the evil government. the people are good. Once they overthrow the CCP and establish a durrmocratic government, the national iq will magically double. Chinese people will instantly become rich and prosperous like their free durrmocratic neighbors: the Indians, Russians and Filipinos.

        • tai wai

          Of course not! it’s the evil government. the people are good.

          So, uh, what are you saying exactly?

          That mainland people are evil, too; not just their government?

        • Dr SUN

          Finally you are beginning to understand ,asdf, yes they will like their neighbors in Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan..etc.

          • Zappa Frank

            this is a really semplicistic point of view.

        • Winter B4 Spring

          YES!!! adsf!!! you finally got it!!
          communism forces you to assimilate, kind’a like the borgs in star trek.
          being free promotes creativity.
          i might disagree with the “rich” part though.
          thank you. Have a great day =]

      • Winter B4 Spring

        nope. Chinese mainlanders are NOT stupid. very educated. Mainlanders are good in many things. hard working too. thats my honest opinion.
        however, confined to communist propaganda, thoughts, and songs, stifle people’s creativity and breaks the connection to the culture.

        • Zappa Frank

          i think that the word “communist” doesn’t really suit to the chinese government. But that’s a semantic thing.
          Whatever it is, i think you could agree that, despite still not so free as many other places, china is getting little by little more free.. if you look at the past and now there’s a huge difference.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            erm…on the surface…i could agree with you, which i’d love to. =]

            On the darker side of politics, there are more people repressed than before. the party learnt a good lesson from 1989 Tiananmen Massacre, so most of its dirty stuffs now are more hidden. I’ve met people of different ethnicities from China, and they have told me their stories, which could make grown men cry.

            For eg, i remembered, particularly, and most horrifyingly, on the illegal organ harvesting for profit, done upon Falun Gong people, by the communist authorities, in China today. I was given this link by a friend who works on human rights issues.

            http://organharvestinvestigation.net/

            This didn’t exist during Mao’s time, and Mao was baaaaaad. This exist during Jiang’s time, and Jiang is then worst, though already a joke within the international stage for breaking out in songs and trying to dance with another world leader, digging his nose and ogling hostesses in public, and reprimanding journalists.

            One of the author, a Mr Matas, said, and i quote, “…a grotesque form of evil which, despite all the depravations humanity has seen, would be new to this planet.”
            (yes, this time, asdf, i copied and paste, but thats cos i can’t get it wrong or it affects my credibility, hah, get it)

            In the same article, i just noticed, this was ordered by the ex-President of China, Jiang Zemin, upon the Falun Gong people:
            “Ruin their reputations, bankrupt them financially, and destroy them physically.”

            In a nutshell, i wrote what i wrote cos the communist party had gone too far. When in history has any entity sold organs for profit on a country-level operations?

            I honestly believe that this report is credible as it has provided all the answers to possible questions, already been presented to the international community, and were both authored by a human rights lawyer and an ex-Canadian politician.

            It’s a good read on contemporary China. Unfortunately.

    • tai wai

      The Mainland can only roll-off production-line graduates who have been totally robbed of their critical, creative, and thinking skills. Most of the brain donors who sit in classrooms everyday know they’ll only be fit for factory / simple manual labor jobs in the future so even try to develop skills?

      Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin’ years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. — George Carlin, on the American Dream

      • asdf

        WHICH GOVERNMENT WANTS A POPULATION OF CITIZENS CAPABLE OF CRITICAL THINKING???? THAT’S ABSURD……. -asdf on chinasmack

        • HeSaidSheSaid

          Okay, I get it, you MUST just be trolling. Good job. You had me on a rant earlier, for the first time on here I might add, but obviously you’re not serious.
          Well done for getting me though.

          • asdf

            you actually believe governments want their citizens to think?
            i don’t get what you’re saying….
            you know what nvm
            i give up.
            you can also believe in santa and jesus or w/e you americans like to worship
            i’m out

          • Hongjian

            America sure is happy with Bradley Manning and Julian Assange, amirite?

            A real critical thinker, but an US state enemy.

            So, which nation wants critical thinkers again?

          • HeSaidSheSaid

            DON’T YOU EVER CALL ME AMERICAN AGAIN!!! haha, but shit man, that country has a LOT of problems too. I’m not from the U.S.A. Or anywhere in North or South America either for that matter (they can all be called American, but let me take a wild stab in the dark and guess that you were meaning from the U.S.A.?)
            Also, DON’T YOU EVER CALL ME RELIGIOUS AGAIN!!! That’s something that China got spot on, not raising religious fundamentalists!
            Very typical though, my friend. The only two countries are China and America. Well done for perpetuating that idiocy!

            ALSO, only bad governments don’t encourage critical thinking. So you’re kind of making my point for me.

      • Zappa Frank

        this is what every government in the world would like..really, we can say exactly the same, word by word, about every country.

      • Dr SUN

        absolutely correct !!

  • nn

    Hong Kong education system is separate from Mainland. What do they worry about? The program is under their supervision, and they can make the program in a right way. If they really want to get rid of the impact of mainland, then don’t enroll Mainland students to their colleges, and don’t recruit Mainland poeple work in Hong Kong. Get rid of the people is the root to get rid of the thought. But we all know it is impossible to cut everything off.

    • Capt. WED

      Life is really like a Game of Go. Equality really means how much “breathing” room you have.

  • jeffli

    I’d like to hear from any mainland Chinese exactly what benefit they got from studying this propoganda. And please be honest.

    • Chom

      You can look at the Chinese comments above. Most of them support the protesters in Hong Kong.

      From one of the Chinese comments we can see that even some of the teachers didn’t support the government:

      “I’m thankful of my middle school political education teacher. Every time before class, he would say: Those of you who have homework from other classes can do it in my class, or rest and chat quietly. Just don’t let your head teacher know. Before class is over, I’ll tell you what content might be on the test.”

  • Slob

    Funny this.. I have been watching the Olympics on mainland TV (only 2 channels broadcast it where I live compared with the 100 that were doing so when it was in Beijing), and all they keep showing is the Chinese team winning their events and editing out any time they screwed up while doing so. When the games were in Sydney in 2000, I remember them broadcasting every event regardless of whether Australia won or not. I know only several events have been on so far in London, but I haven’t been able to see one single event that China isn’t competing in.

    Nationalism is terrible here and at least the HongKon(ese?) have a lot more free thinking than the mainland. Every country ‘brainwashes’ their students to some degree, it’s part of their learning how to fit into their country’s system, but that doesn’t mean they push it to the status of robotic-learning. Primary school and middle school students here are under so much stress for simply having to memorize the garbage their teachers throw at them and then get 4 hours of homework to do at home.

    Glad I’m sending my son to an Australian school.

    • Hongjian

      Here, in fucking democratic, freedom-loving, non-nationalist, pussified, pacifist, non-comminist, humna-rights respecting, western oriented Germany our state-TV also only shows about the German Olympic Team’s events, while those about other events are only shown on dedicated private-owned sports channels. This isnt anything exclusive to China.

      But meh.

      LOOK, I AM THAT CLEVER BECAUSE I CAN CALL CHINA BEING BRAINWASHED NATIONALISTS! LOOK HERE HOW CLEVER I AM THROWING BUZZWORDS AROUND! AM I COOL YET?

      tl;dr

      you are an idiot.

      • Slob

        You’re saying the government controlled TV channel is showing German events while private owned TV companies are showing ALL events. Doesn’t that make sense that it should be like that anyway? Even on private networks here you won’t find other country’s events.

        I could go through a million examples of how nationalist they are but I don’t think I’ll waste my time on someone who feels the need to use entire paragraphs with caps lock on to try and get their point across.

        tl;dr I don’t care.

  • Hongjian

    Just kill them all. In the end, noone stands against the celestial dynasty’s might.

    I hope one day all the faggy democracy and human rights in the world are crushed before the tear-filled eyes of those emotional, freedom-craving degenerates.
    Nuke the USA, nuke Western Europe and nuke all who support this cancerous political ideology of democracy in other countries to destabilize their national developments and take control over the fates of other people. There’s a reason the west hopes China to have an “open political system” – meaning that she should be open enough for them to infiltrate her with their lobby groups and take control over all politics and economy, just like in Japan who cannot even throw out the american bases in her own country. This is worse than brainwashing. This is turning a country into a puppet of a foreign power!

    China shall never be a second Iraq, Lybia or Syria. China shall never be degraded down to being an US airfield and proxy. Hong Kong fuckers and west-worshipping pseudo intellectuals in China should all be lined up and shot for the ultimate betrayal of the Chinese nation, along with the americunts who will support them when they unleash a civil war in China that will throw the nation back to several centuries again only to satisfy their ideological craving for “freedom” and “democracy”, while the nation they claim to rebel for falls into ruins and foreign domination. Did the rebels turn Lybia in a democratic paradise of equality and freedom after they shit up the place? Did the ordinary Syrians enjoy any benefits of the ongoing civil war for the sake of “democracy” there? Is the Iraq any more western-oriented and freedom-loving as of now? Do any of these nations enjoy a higher human development than before their respective “democratizations”? These are questions, no fucking cocksucking pseudo-intellectual in the Chinese net could really answer without resorting to name-calling ie. wumao and being brainwashed etc.
    In reality, these people are the ones being fucking brainwashed. Brainwashed with the worst political ideology ever: Anarchy.
    Because even if they claim to want a western-styled political system, all their actions will only result in anarchy and suffering of the nation and the people in a grand scale. And whoever wishes that directly or indirectly to their own people for the sake of ideological masturbation, is an enemy of the nation and needs to be shot.

    God, I fucking hate rebel-scum! No matter where or who they are, no matter who they are opposing – all rebels and oppositionals should just fucking hang along with their entire families. They are everything bad in the world.

    • tai wai

      when they unleash a civil war in China that will throw the nation back to several centuries again only to satisfy their ideological craving for “freedom” and “democracy”

      Right on! Dr. Sun ZhongShan was an asshole! It was better under feudalism! Fark those guys that down bow to the glorious sun-god emperor!

      You’re pathetic.

      • Hongjian

        Yes, Dr. Sun was an idiot. And arguably an asshole.

        As someone graduated in Law, I can tell you that one of his greatest mistakes and fuckups was his complete adoption of German Civil Code – the “Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch”. As the name already states, it is a Code made for the “Bürger” – the Civilized Urban Middle Class resident who owns a residence with a garden, a car, several servants and a pet dog, as well as having basic civilized insights into the code of conduct in a already industrializing society that casted off feudal and superstitional bullshit.

        So, by seeing this example alone and comparing it to the Chinese society of post 1911, doesnt it look at least a bit mad? Isnt it a -bit- stupid to assume that a semi-feudal shithole ruled by still corrupted mandarins, warlords with a society made of 99% absolutely poor peasants can actually adopt both German Civil Code and Parliamentary Democracy?
        Do the Chinese masses of that time even know where fucking germany was? Or what parliamentary democracy and constitution actually meant?

        No. But according to Dr. Sun sitting in his fucking Ivory Tower, we should all have known this to an extend of a fucking german lawyer, to make his idiotic vision of a Democratic Republican China come true.

        In the end, it failed. Hard. So hard that we can still feel it today.

        Bad ideas due to naiivety, detachment from reality and intellectual pretentiousness is what killed China times and times over. Sun and Mao are both very alike in this – just as well as most of nowaday’s chinese internet population made of self-declared Hanhan-wannabe’s, “new Lu Xun” and “public intellectuals”.

        • tai wai

          So, what you’re saying is that he tried to push modernization too soon… in 19-farking-12.

          I guess, then, if China were to have followed it’s own path, free from Western ideas and intervention, it might have been ready to enter the industrial age perhaps by 2060 or so.

          How glorious! How powerful!

          Face it, you support feudalism.

          • Hongjian

            Face it, your face is full of shit.

            Sun was an idiot in trying to turn China into a liberal democracy with a german code-law tailor made for a wealthy and property-possessing society. China was like the deepest african shithole back then. No, even worse than that, because at least africa do not have to put with all those corrupted beaurocracy blocking any attempt at real change.

            Sun’s attempt at modernizing China was as stupid as Mao’s attempt at industrializing China with the Great Leap Forward. Face it. Both are shit and produced only shit since they were completely detached from the realities back then.

            Hell, it is telling that, even though Sun and the KMT outlawed the feet-binding and encouraged the freedom for women, only the CCP after conquering whole of China and killing off all local warlords and indoctrinating the society with their ideology, were the only one’s who could really pull off these late reforms made in the early KMT reign. The KMT didnt even have the authority to overpower the individual husband’s freedom of beating the fuck out of his wife, and the individual mother’s freedom of breaking the feets of her daughter. Only the commies with their authoritarian dictatorship that aimed at destroying traditional culture and superstition could accomplish what democrats dreamed of before. Here you have your realities and the idiocy of the Sun administration.

            Sun should have followed a similiar approach. First installing a military dictatorship that gets rid of all warlords and conflicting interests, uniting the country, throwing out the foreign imperialists, set up firm borders, killing all seperatist minorites, and then invest in infrastructure, industry, education (yes, brainwash education is still better than no education and literacy) and basic health-care. Everything else with those shitty ivory tower-grade ideals of freedom and democracy must come after the basics are established. Hell, even Germany during that time their civil code was written and the country industrialized, it was still a monarchy and not a democracy! How the hell could Dr. Sun think of turning China into a republican democracy by 1912, if even both of his inspirations, Japan and Germany, were both imperialist monarchic fuckers? This is even worse than Mao aiming at besting the UK in steel production in the 50’s…

          • tai wai

            Sun should have followed a similiar approach. First installing a military dictatorship that gets rid of all warlords and conflicting interests, uniting the country, throwing out the foreign imperialists, set up firm borders, killing all seperatist minorites, and then invest in infrastructure, industry, education (yes, brainwash education is still better than no education and literacy) and basic health-care. Everything else with those shitty ivory tower-grade ideals of freedom and democracy must come after the basics are established.

            Useful authoritarianism?

            Useful idiot.

            Authoritarian regimes don’t advance. They are overthrown.

          • Hongjian

            So, another Democrazy activist and Ideologic zealot right here.

            “Authoritarian regimes don’t advance. They are overthrown.”

            Yeah, just like Singapore, right? Lee Kuan Yew sure is terrified about the masses owerthrowing his authoritarian rule, which brought his city-state prosperity and influence.

            Or like Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait… Hell, I tremble.

            In the end, only those get overthrown who are declared enemy’s to the western world. Other’s can continue to oppress and censor without anyone ever giving a shit. Especially freedom-lovers like you, who didnt even know about the examples I’ve listed here.

            clap clap clap. typical americunt.

          • tai wai

            Yeah, just like Singapore, right?

            Singapore works because it is tiny, and rich. The people allow it because the people are prosperous. China was (and is) neither of these things. The people aren’t.

            Or like Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait… Hell, I tremble.

            Small countries. Oil money. Prosperous people. See above.

        • tai wai

          Anyway, hate on the West all you like, the only advancements China has had in the last 100 years were copied from the West.

          The infrastructure you are so proud of?

          “To a large extent, this expressway network is
          modeled after the U.S. Interstate network, with
          similar geometric designs and operational
          characteristics.”

          The mobilization of the peasantry? The soaring GDP? Western style production facilities.

          China (like Japan and S. Korea before it) succeeds by apeing the West. And the West is Democratic.

          It’s coming.

          • Hongjian

            The west aped China’s ancient inventions just as well. But did they turned into Chinese styled Empires ruled by a confucian mandarinate?

            No.

            The west excelled in raping and pillaging the world, which helped them to build up all their wealth and prosperity they enjoy today. I guess this is also something China should seek into aping, just as Japan did.

          • tai wai

            The west aped China’s ancient inventions just as well. But did they turned into Chinese styled Empires ruled by a confucian mandarinate?

            Ancient is the operative word. They didn’t need to copy China’s government, they had their own sun-kings to worship.

            Which they later got rid of. Because that’s the natural progression.

          • Hongjian

            They have never rid themselves of their sun-kings and gods.

            Their new gods are called “Democracy and Freedom”, and are spread with the same zealousness and fanatism, with fire and swords throughout the world, as if nothing has changed since the Crusades.

            Those who used to worship sun-kings, are now worshipping the new political dogma of western styled Democracy. Like you.

            Enjoy being an useful idiot and minion.

          • tai wai

            Those who used to worship sun-kings, are now worshipping the new political dogma of western styled Democracy. Like you.

            You still can’t argue that it isn’t the natural progression of a modern country to be, at least on the face, democratic. Western.

            Or that China’s success are only from imitating the West.

            It’s our ballgame, buddy. Play by our rules, or sit it out and be an outsider in history.

            Notice how China’s favorite sport is now basketball?

          • Dr SUN

            would you care to comment on the population and land mass differences between China and Singapore, Qatar, Kuwait etc and speculate if that makes any difference.

            you can even throw commerce and oil in you want, but comparing apples to oranges doesn’t make for a clever argument HJ

          • Hongjian

            So, you say that a Dictatorship works well if it is a small country?
            Sorry, but politcal science and world history shows EXACTLY the opposite.
            It is always the small countries who work best when being democratic (even Direct Democracy, like in Swizzerland), while the large countries with low human development and low societal, cultural cohesion work extremely shit as democracy, as shown in India.

            Singapore, those arab Absolutist Monarchies are the most crass example of the fact that modern autocracies work just as well in those small nations, that should actually be all democratic.

            I think acutally you are the one comparing apples with oranges, ie. knows shit about what you are talking about.

    • tai wai

      God, I fucking hate rebel-scum!

      Also, I think you might be Darth Vader.

      • Nanny Hiccups

        hahaaha

      • Dr SUN

        LOL, nailed him

    • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat
    • jeffli

      ****China shall never be a second Iraq, Lybia or Syria. ****
      It was from 1911 revolution to 1989!!! and still going in some places within.

      • Hongjian

        Maybe I’m missing something.

        As far as I know, there are no US bases in China and the western coalition still isnt debating about bombing China back to stoneage.

        And as long as the CCP rules, their foreign policy agenda is running, the PLA stands its ground – and those fucking anarchist rebel scum is being suppressed, it wont change.

        • Dr SUN

          yes, your missing a brain

          • starting

            what is relevant now is China controls 2/3 of all ship Building on this PLANET.
            CHina makes 99% of the products used on the planet 20% of which goes to sell in AMerica.
            But I disagree with Hongjian on allowing the same education in Hong kong.
            the entire rest of the world still has china’s teen student girls and not CHina itself
            http://sports.yahoo.com/news/american-ariel-hsing-reaches-3rd-102135853–oly.html

          • Dr SUN

            building ships now days means nothing, controls nothing its mute.

            Really 99%, I see more Japanese,Korean and Euorpean cars every day in China, where its made is about labour cost.
            Addidas JUST closed down in China to move somewhere cheaper, as many companies are. The corruption of the CPC is killing China.

            The bubble of miracle China is about to bust, welcome to reality.

        • tai wai

          fucking anarchist rebel scum

          Look, you’re obviously an authoritarian, so let me put it in terms you might understand.

          The West IS THE AUTHORITY. We make the rules, and the world plays along. We have the military power, the cultural soft power, the economic power. We run this world!

          Don’t you see? The Chinese government ARE the rebels.

          You guys lost a long time ago. China is no longer the center of the world. The US is. Now we run the fucker. Our ideals. Our ideas. Our POV. Not yours.

          So sorry about that. Now deal with it.

          /gah, authoritarian hate makes me feel all icky

          • tai wai

            Now deal with it.

            In fact, no, not just deal with it. You ought to be happy that our system gives you the right to bitch and moan and descent about how you don’t like it.

            Because that’s leaps and bounds above anything The Party allows.

          • Hongjian

            Then, it is clear. You are my enemy and I may kill you one day on the battlefield.

            China will never play along with your rules. Your democratic crusaderdom is nothing different than your christian crusaderdom or the oppressive murdering Inquisition in your european, western past.
            What you criticize about China, is the same you preach to your followers and minions everyday: “There is only one Party and he is always in the right. The party of western democracy and liberalism. Anyone opposing this party will be bombed to death and regime-changed until it suits our needs.” This is just as authoritarian as the CCP.

            There’s no need to talk even further here. The western world is China’s inherent enemy. She doesnt just want to “free China”, she wish to control and subdue her to her own image. Turn her into a puppet and blind follower of their own authoritarian world narrative and ideology. Congrats beating the Soviets and their “World-Revolution” ideology in terms of fanatism and close-mindedness. You’ve finally made it.

            Now, I support the Chinese Communist Party even more. Because even if she adopted a western ideology like communism and is corrupted, she still is one of the last to resist the western global hegemony. I’d rather see the world burn, than to bear China being turned into yet another puppet of the west by playing along with their masturbatory game of ideological wanking.

          • tai wai

            he party of western democracy and liberalism.

            You should be thankful for the shift toward world liberalism. Of the ideas of universal rights, and egalitarianism. Without them, you’d still be building my railroads and cleaning my laundry.

            You prefer authoritarianism? Suits me! Oh, but not with the West as hegemon? Oh, well then. You are the rebel scum that you hate. Sorry.

          • asdf

            Hongjian you might as well just give up, you can’t shoot down mosquitoes with a cannon.

          • hess

            “Then, it is clear. You are my enemy and I may kill you one day on the battlefield.”
            Just wow haha… You sound like a 12 year old.

    • Zappa Frank

      you seem crazy..

      • Winter B4 Spring

        …and you seem crazy too. Makes 2 of you. Go on, give each other a hug =P

  • glenn

    China govt: We’ll try to teach HK the ancient ways
    HK: And us ending up like the brainwashed-gov’t oppressed mainland citizens? no thanks…

  • Nanny Hiccups

    Off topic question. In mandarin, I know the word “Da” means “hit”. But can I also say “Da” if commanding someone to “attack”? (this is for something i am writing).

    • Dr SUN

      there are four tones in mandarin, in the 3rd tone it means attack, 1st tone it means etc.

      in chinese a word must be in context to others

      • Nanny Hiccups

        I know, i can speak some mandarin. But i am wondering if I can say “Dǎ!” to mean attack. Or is there some other word that I have to use for attack. And yeah, the context thing is the hardest part about speaking mandarin.
        At least arriving at the point where you don’t have translate in your head anymore to figure it out.

      • Nanny Hiccups

        oops, i mean “da!” as a stand alone word, with no other words in the sentence?

        • Dr SUN

          It has be contextual to the sentance, there are 35 different uses for da.

          Chinese is not learnt through Pinyin, that would the same as learning English through IPA, its nonesense.

          • Nanny Hiccups

            What if its the only word in the sentence? I know, I learned through rote memory and for pronounciation and tone usage, i learned from software i purchased from http://standardmandarin.com and audio cassettes, etc.

            do you recommend learning mandarin through interaction or do you mean, through written language? I learned from memory but that’s by far not perfect at all. i had no idea that da! had so many uses. i only know two uses as in, making a phone call, “dǎ diàn-huà” or “da” as in simply “hit”. that tells you how limited my vocabulary is lol.

          • Dr SUN

            A sentence is never one word in any language.

            interaction is speaking , listening and successful communication and in real day to day life that’s verbal.

          • Nanny Hiccups

            Ok.

          • Dr SUN

            your are very clever, sorry I was not lecturing you

          • Nanny Hiccups

            Don’t worry about it, I appreciate your help :o)

          • linette

            nanny, you can’t just use “da!” if you want to say attack. da means “hit!” Attack is 攻擊 in traditional writing/cantonese and
            攻击Gōngjí in simplified writing/mandarin.

            So write 攻击! Gōngjí!

        • sonny

          you can say it like that, but shouting “打” by itself would be closer to “fight” — check out “攻” for more “attack” related phrases: 进攻,攻城,攻击,etc.

    • Chinese

      “da” has the meaning of “attack”, and can be used alone. I’m not sure if the word is actually used in this way in the military though.

      • barack obama

        this is the correct statement. I love dr.sun trying to sound smart providing all that explanation but completely missing the point of your question.

  • XiaoHei

    who is brainwashing whom, nobody knows…

    I don’t either…

  • Cleo

    Is it true that the standout students at BOTH HKU and CUHK are Mainlanders who attended who didn’t make it down to Hong Kong until AFTER they had experienced Mainland style education. What exactly is the content of education that the 1000 signators are against? We all know HKers are gulping at the depth and breadth and personal ability in the traditional literary arts such as poetry reciting AND composing, painting, calligraphy of the Mainlanders. The Taiwanese certainly haven’t impressed others like that. I’m just wondering because you already know that that so-called indoctrination is worth diddly squat in terms of keeping any political party in power. It’s generally just infused the Mainlanders with an incontrovertible sense of self as a Chinese but it has never and will never truly be effective in creating a patriot or a jingoist or someone who will keep the faith. That’s a matter of personal character and you really can’t claim that Mainlanders trust each other implicitly or are willing to kamikaze or self-immolate for their country or the party.

    Why don’t you sign 1000 times that China is annoying the crap out of you because that is how many Hong Kongers are acting.

    • Hongjian

      Indoctrination and brainwashing with chinese characteristics wont turn Chinese into Jingoists and Kamikaze suicide bombers, but the increasingly hostile, racist, and unforgiving western mainstream opinion against China will.

      The western world preaches freedom and democracy to China, while at the same time calling us all dogs and uncivilized cockroaches that either need to get bombed back to stoneage, or to knee down and to suck their cocks, since apparently “everything China achieved is because of the West”.
      I know vicious school bullying and mobbing that is more lenient and respectful to the sorry subject than what is displayed to China by the mouthbreathing western redneck opinion makers and people in the recent years. And if even that will generate highschool-massacres perpetrated by those bullying-victims, you can be sure that the shit that is thrown against China will generate even more brooding hate and scorn than that.

      In sofar, the Western World’s opinion towards China is the CCP’s best propaganda. There’s no need to demonize the West everyday – they are doing it themselves.
      This is why there are usually more oversea’s Chinese who are patriotic than Chinese living back in China. Being exposed to the western flow of shit everyday, shows them the real face of the western world and the danger that China is facing. If there were any Chinese kamikaze pilots some day, they are most probably those overseas Chinese patriots again, who always cared for their homeland since the overthrowal of the Qing.

      • tai wai

        either need to get bombed back to stoneage, or to knee down and to suck their cocks, since apparently “everything China achieved is because of the West”.

        You have to admit: China has done well in the last thirty years, under US hegemony. No, no, that’s quite alright, no need to thank us.

        Just play continue to play by our rules, and you’ll continue to prosper! No need for us to use our superior military power.

        Now, why do you head over to McDonalds for a nice tasty Big Mac, fries, and Coke?

        • asdf

          Now, why don’t you go throw your made in china computer out the window so you can shutup.

          • tai wai

            Why? We designed it.

            Now get off our Internet.

          • asdf

            What do you mean “we”? Americans didn’t design shit. Go visit your silicon valley and count the number of engineers there who are actually “American”. Even with the stupid affirmative action policies, they’re still all fucking Asian, most of whom are of Chinese descent.

          • tai wai

            Even with the stupid affirmative action policies, they’re still all fucking Asian, most of whom are of Chinese descent.

            See? We provide jobs for you. Like any good government should.

            You will find we are kind.

        • kodi

          Do you actually believe a superior military force such as the United States could win a war with China? We both have the bomb, and China has actually proved it’s military prowess against US forces during the Korean war. They beat US marines and allied forces on the border of Korea and China pushing them back to the South, which is why we now have two Koreas.

          China has a knack for calling its people to arms and implementing a policy of total war. That would be a scarier war than Iraq and Afghanistan.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            It’s a different China these days, so I doubt they could really mobilize such a huge force willing to suicide charge into US defensive lines anymore. They haven’t had a whole lot of combat experience, either. That would be the US’s biggest advantage and could very well win the war even if both countries used the exact same technology. But yes, the war would be a lot worse than Iraq and Afghanistan. I have a feeling that any war between the US or China would be found almost exclusively at sea or in the air. Invading China would be a huge, difficult ordeal with a lot of casualties on all sides, and China invading the US…haha sure.

          • mr. wiener

            I think it would be more accurate to say “China had the knack ….”.
            The only total war you see in China now a days is in the driving style shown on the roads, and the only human wave attacks are when the department stores are having their annual sales.
            Deng xiao ping’s revolution is complete, having turned China from a backward country of revolutionary double thinkers able to turn their idealogy on a dime to suit the whims of their leaders in lemming like suicidal fervor. To a country of designer label wearing uber consumers.
            I’m sure the nicotine stained little dwarf is having a good chuckle to himself in his tomb as the only man to have gotten away with pissing on Mao’s legacy without anyone having realized it.
            But this all makes the arguments of having a “National Education concept in the curriculum guide ” in schools rather mute doesn’t it.? The concept is already outmoded and only held on to by delude nationalistic types and cynical party types. The don’t call [excessive]nationalism the last refuge for fools and scoundrels for nothing [still wondering which category Frau Honk falls into].
            As to:
            “Indoctrination and brainwashing with chinese characteristics wont turn Chinese into Jingoists and Kamikaze suicide bombers, but the increasingly hostile, racist, and unforgiving western mainstream opinion against China will.”
            I think the enraged masses of Chinese bent on punishing the arrogant westerns will only turn up to spontaneous[cough] demonstrations if they can drive their Audis.

  • Thomas Henry Palmer

    Any government that needs to “teach” their citizens to respect their country is ultimately a week government.

    • tai wai

      All governments do this. All governments use propaganda to brainwash their citizens.

      No, the reason this is significant is because HK is saying to Party: “You aren’t our government.”

      • asdf

        So what makes western brainwash better than Chinese brainwash? Like you said this is entirely a battle of stealing people’s hearts and minds. or actually, just hearts since none of them seem to have a mind. In the end these people will still remain passionate thoughtless slaves. The only difference would just be a change of ownership. And the reason this is significant is because the next generation of HK will say to western imperialists “FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!”

        • tai wai

          And the reason this is significant is because the next generation of HK will say to western imperialists “FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!”

          Why would they do that? While the mainland experienced “100 years of humiliation,” Honk Kong did pretty well under British Imperial rule.

          And The American model is even better than the British one! We allow a country it’s self-determination (unlike the Party, which tries to lay claim to other countries).

          But either way, why would they want to side against us, and be on the wrong side of history, like their mainland brothers did before?

          • asdf

            Stop distorting historical facts, the century of humiliation was during the pathetic Manchu Qing dynasty, not under the Chinese KMT or Communist regime.

            And did you claim that America is a country of “self-determination”??? You think you can affect your country’s actual political agenda by throwing pieces of paper into a recycling bin? If everybody in a country were allowed to make decisions, then we would just end up in a society of mediocrity, which judging from the level of thinking in everyone’s comments, should really be synonymous with utter retardedness.

            You also say that “the party” lays claim to other countries??? The entirety of America itself rests on a stolen landmass in which over 90% of the native population were killed. Their military is spread out on almost every single continent of this globe. And sure, play mr nice guy and call China the evil aggressor.

          • tai wai

            Stop distorting historical facts, the century of humiliation was during the pathetic Manchu Qing dynasty, not under the Chinese KMT or Communist regime.

            The beginning of the century is usually dated to the mid-19th century, on the eve of the First Opium War[2] and the widespread addiction and political unraveling of China that followed.[3]
            Other major events cited as part of the Century of humiliation are, the unequal treaties of Whampoa and Aigun, the Taiping Rebellion, the Second Opium War and the sacking of the Old Summer Palace, the Sino-French War, the First Sino-Japanese War, and the British invasion of Tibet.[4] In this period, China lost all the wars it fought and had to give major concessions to the great powers in the subsequent treaties.[5]
            It continued into the 20th century with the Twenty-One Demands by Japan during World War I and the Second Sino-Japanese War during World War II.

            And did you claim that America is a country of “self-determination”???

            No, I said that we allow self determination in the governments we partner with. We’d allow Hong Kong full sovereignty, if it wanted. Or Taiwan. Whatever. Just as long as they play by the modern world’s rules. Our rules.

            The power is still asymmetrical, sure, but we don’t colonize. Our imperialism is liberal.

            call China the evil aggressor.

            No, more like the insolent child that wants to bite the Western hand that feeds it. Where is your filial piety?!

          • tai wai

            Stop distorting historical facts, the century of humiliation was during the pathetic Manchu Qing dynasty, not under the Chinese KMT or Communist regime.

            Oh, wait, my bad, I misread this.

            I didn’t say it was just during the modern times. Hong Kong went to the British after the First Opium war. Hong Kong did well.

            Mainland? Not so much. Their humiliation, though. It was because they lost. They lost to the West. And they’re still butthurt over it.

        • sonny

          whoa, relax guy, neither of them even said anything about east vs west…

          my 2¢: humanity in general has a pretty sordid history, comparing the sins of any two civilizations is like asking ‘what smells better, dung or vomit?’

          the real question should be ‘how can we better mitigate the political manipulation of education around the world?’

          • HeSaidSheSaid

            Sonny, I think your ‘dung’ comment summed up what I’m thinking in a very eloquent way. Kind of like the South Park Giant Douche vs. Turd Sandwich election episode.
            Every country has committed some pretty horrid crimes. Some on a massive scale, some not so much, but something. Killing natives, killing each other, invading other countries, oppressing their own civilians.
            Everyone just says: ‘Oh, but when we did it it was different!’

          • sonny

            @hesaidshesaid hah, i haven’t seen that one yet — i’ll have to look it up, sounds good

        • Winter B4 Spring

          No they won’t.

  • Jin

    I think these hongnese still dreaming that’s they still licking Britain asses and still governed by their white masters.

    When will the Chinese government pull these Chinese back into line? a few years in a concentration camp will teach them who is their new masters and which hole their ancestors come from.

    When hong kong was handed back to their rightful owners they belong to China its that’s simple..everything that is in HK belongs to China and the Chinese people..and yes HONGNESE are Chinese also.

    • tai wai

      When will the Chinese government pull these Chinese back into line? a few years in a concentration camp will teach them who is their new masters and which hole their ancestors come from.

      Hahaha, good luck with that.

      If you need to beat your brothers to keep them in line, maybe they aren’t your brothers after all.

      • Jin

        You clearly do not read up on human history – every single country on this planet uses force to control their citizens even today in modern time.

        America detention facility at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba now can imprison and trial any individual they want without legal rights given to them. American authorities have revealed that, in order to obtain confessions, some of the few being tried (only in military courts) have been tortured by waterboarding more than 100 times or intimidated with semiautomatic weapons and power drills.
        In addition to American citizens’ being targeted for assassination or indefinite detention, recent laws have canceled the restraints in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to allow unprecedented violations of our rights to privacy through warrantless wiretapping and government mining of our electronic communications. Popular state laws permit detaining individuals because of their appearance, where they worship or with whom they associate.

        So you tai wai people need to be put in their place and these Chinese in HK should be treated like traitors that they are.

        • tai wai

          So you tai wai people need to be put in their place

          I have my own people? Cool.

          and these Chinese in HK should be treated like traitors that they are.

          Again, good luck with that. I don’t know how Taiwan will go down. We in the West might allow it, might not interfere.

          But Hong Kong? That’s just absurd. If mainland tries to use force against Hong Kong, the West will not sit idle.

          And an idle West is in your best interests.

          • Zappa Frank

            will not? are you sure? i think that if china will start doing things little by little, step by step waiting and waiting soon or later will have it. Think about it.. more mainlanders in HK, little by little they become 10%, later 30%, than 50%… mandarin in class, than soon or later no more cantonese on tv.. some reform in the name of security (on this point america teach to everybody). slowly they get what they want and the westeners countries have their problems.. Of course it will not be necessary like that.

          • Jin

            Westerners only concern is financial interest not human rights as long as HK is making money and profit they will not interfere with Chinese government.

            Whether Hongnese think so or not they are Chinese descended from pirates and thief’s that used hk island as hide outs. then become imperialist ass lickers so they have nothing to be proud about with their history.

          • mr. wiener

            Yes and they still think they’re higher class than other mainlanders. That must really burn your arse.

          • Jin

            why would it burn my ass because they are delusional ?

            First Imperialist Britain never come into HK to save the ‘hongnese” or to give them a better health care and educational system. Hongnese just benefited from the opium trade and they benefited from millions of mainland Chinese suffering due to the opium war and trade.

            One group of people will always think they are better then another group..like Melbourne think they are better then Sydney and New yorkers think they are better then anyone else in the world. Shanghainese think they are better then other Chinese group etc so no reason to be up-set about that.

          • mr. wiener

            Actually J&T that remark was directed at Jin. But as you will.
            I don’t think anyone is arguing that the Brits were motivated by charity when they took HK.That was not my point.
            The folk in the south of China have always been looked down on by their northern cousins as “renegades”, time being the curious whirlygig that it is, the “renegades” now look down on the “civilized” northerners , by virtue of the fact that China pissed 5000 years [4000 and change actually] up against the wall in one decade of madness called the cutural revolution.

            History lessons aside, the Mainlanders have only themselves to blame, coming to HK for cheap designer labels and showing off their charming manners , public hosedowns on walls, bus line moshpits, darwinist driving style etc. The HKers may be the pot calling the kettle sooty arse, but in this instance the Mainlanders put the cherry on the cake of indignation by putting on airs about how civilized they are compared to their colonial lickspittle HK bretheren.
            Most HKers can remember the Chinese when they first came to HK twenty years ago wearing identical mao suits and pudding bowl haircuts to gawk at all the big buildings and flush toilets. The Hkers are pretty much of the opinion that putting their putting themselves in Prada is a waste of material.
            Where does Jin fit into this I hear you enquire? He is the worst kind of Chinese fella, even worse than aged , opinionated whitey asia hands such as myself. He spent his whole life overseas and has only been back in China the last two. I think the poor lad is a born again nationalist determined to revenge himself for all those times he was picked last on the basketball team in western schools [cheer up, i was always second last, i had feet like row-boats].
            A couple of generations will even the playing field , as far as polite society,but old resentments do tend to linger:E.G We are better in Melbourne that you Tooey swilling Sydney yahoos because we are classier than yous. We got class coming out of our arse in Melbourne :)

          • linette

            Chinese descended from pirates and thief’s that used hk island as hide outs. then become imperialist ass lickers so the……..

            yeah Jin, we are the descendants of Chinese pirates. We hkongese are pirates of East China sea.

            Hoist the anchor and sail away pirates! Away from oppression and to the land of the free. lol.. Jin you are such a sore loser.

            Jin is so pathetic calling us dogs…pirates..LikeWT freak? You are the dog Jin. You love to be told by the China gov’t what is right and what is wrong. You don’t even have a brain to reason it on your own.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Pirates are awesome.
            Borne into a family with a tradition of providing eunuch sons to the government, Jin must be sore (both his pride and the stitches between his legs).

          • mr. wiener

            The unkindest cut of all. Still it does make life simpler in response to your tailor asking you “does sir dress to the right or to the left?”. You can blithely reply “neither”.

          • linette

            Jin is mad cause the pirates won’t give him dick. He’s not getting laid. Sorry honey, no dick for you.

          • Winter B4 Spring

            @ Zappa: Very sure. Taiwan won’t go down. Your future-prediction is incorrect. Thank you for trying though =]

        • James

          Hmm, so the Chinese in HK are traitors – but what about non-ethnic Chinese Hong Kong’ers – are they traitors or dogs for not towing the mainland political line? It’s a real question to you, please try not to make it a racist diatribe.

          My point is that we’re different from the mainland – not better or worse, but different. Our values, history, languages, media… we don’t have a shared history with the mainland, and HK isn’t as ethnically / racially homogeneous as the mainland. So, given this fact, any thoughts on the issue, Jin@tonic?

          • Jin

            James, Hong Kong belongs to China till 1840 when it was taken by forced by imperialist Britain. And the reason it was forcibly taken was so the interests of the west in the opium trade could continue.

            So as part of China everything that’s in HK including the people should live by china law. If they do not they can leave HK and live else where.

            Britain only governed HK since 1840..that’s only 172 years so how can you make such claims “My point is that we’re different from the mainland – not better or worse, but different. Our values, history, languages, media… we don’t have a shared history with the mainland, and HK isn’t as ethnically / racially homogeneous as the mainland.”

            “In 214 BC, Qin Shi Huang, the first emperor of China conquered the Baiyue tribes in Jiaozhi (modern Liangguang region) and incorporated the territory into imperial China for the first time. Modern Hong Kong is located in Nanhai commandery (modern Nanhai District) and near the ancient capital city Panyu.[50][51][52] The area was consolidated under the kingdom of Nanyue, founded by general Zhao Tuo in 204 BC after the Qin Dynasty collapsed.[53] When the kingdom was conquered by Emperor Wu of Han in 111 BC”

            As you can see from history your ancestors is mainland Chinese for thousands of years and you should not be proud of 172 years of imprisonment and now make claim that you are “different”

          • mr. wiener

            The Taiwanese are quite proud of their 60 odd years of Japanese “inprisonment” as well. I’ve spoken to many old Taiwanese who still speak Japanese and they remembered the Japanese as being tough ,but fair [nostagia is a funny beast]. One thing that is undeniable is that they transformed Taiwan from a sleepy backwater and gave it a first class infastructure.
            The old Taiwanese compared speak well of the Japanese as being clean and polite, Quite unlike the first army of KMT goons to come over , who they said “dressed like tramps and stole everything that wasn’t nailed down.
            History and culture are a lot more complicated that you would believe Jin. You must be quite young to have such a sense of certainty about you.

          • Comebackkid13

            The Japanese gave infrastructure and modern economies to almost every Asian country they touched. They committed barbarous, violent acts in the process, but they can be credited with that. Even northern China had areas that benefited greatly from their touch. Near Mongol areas were some of the most advanced market in Asia at the time.

    • tai wai

      But, anyway, this gets to the meat of it… Mainlanders are still pissed that they aren’t the “masters.” That the West is.

      Deal with it. Know your place in the world, and fall in line already.

      Or, do you want to double for another century of humiliation?

      • asdf

        You’re not even debating anymore. You’re just forcing this discussion to devolve into an exchange of personal attacks and arrogant chants of my country is better than yours in which you can finally gain an upper hand in the argument even with your utter stupidity, distorted view of History, and hallucinations about democracy.

        • tai wai

          You’re not even debating anymore. You’re just forcing this discussion to devolve into an exchange of personal attacks and arrogant chants of my country is better than yours in which you can finally gain an upper hand in the argument even with your utter stupidity, distorted view of History, and hallucinations about democracy.

          Exactly. Nationalism.

          • sfphoto1

            Not really. More like racketeering as in spending US$ 3 TRILLION on two stupid wars, all so Oil Companies, Defense Contractors and Financial Speculators can make more money.

        • kodi

          Im sorry but I have to say that hallucinations about democracy are better than denial about a one party system run by thugs only out to enrich themselves. Where do those thugs emigrate too after they steal honest Chinese citizens money? They move to a democratic countries! Why is that?

          I would consider myself very in touch with general sentiment regarding government in China. I have friends across the spectrum and regularly discuss these things and get a wide range of reasonable responses to my questions through debate. A reoccurring sentiment across the spectrum of society is “helplessness” when it comes to the gov. 没办法 is the thought in the minds of most common and middle class people. Only when I speak with rich people who were made rich through their connections to corrupt gov. officials, or they are allowed to be rich and protected by gov. connections have I ever heard praise for the gov. in China, but then they always leave open escape routes to foreign countries.

          The people I am associate with range from police officers, lawyers, including lawyers working for the party, a supreme court judge, a PSB officer, generals, family members of generals, business people, 福二代, 管二代, software engineers, scientists, professors at top universities, other Beijing government officials ranging from low to mid level, I even have a friend working at the Beijing Bureau of Statistics “so she always tells me about discrepancies she finds in stats being churned out of the department and how accurate findings get suppressed regularly (hallucinations by the party?).”

          Through interaction with the above I find that people who have gov. power are simply arrogant. They tend to look down on everyone else beside their superiors and have an heir of superiority themselves. Through my many interviews and debates I have found those people (people with power in Beijing) to be little more than privileged power hungry thugs who feel the need to frequently remind others of their power through statements and questions like, “Do you know who I am?” “This is China” Do you know I can deport you just by making a call? “Who do you think you are saying things like that?” I am friends with such and such blah blah blah! The Supreme court judge I know has not even studied law! She is simply the daughter of a general. I have never met a group of more incompetent people in positions of power in my life. The highest jobs these guys should have is at best managerial level positions in companies because they can’t even rely on their own abilities to achieve their positions of power in the first place. I find very few who did achieve power through merit.

          The lawyers I associate with are a more civilized group of well educated highly professional, highly knowledgeable, forward thinking people. Even the party lawyers are civilized regardless of the fact that they work closely with the gov. ” I came to the conclusion that this is because the party either frowns upon or keeps distance from intellectuals and highly educated individuals who are smart enough to think for themselves and have a relatively high social status.” All of the lawyers gave me similar answers when it comes to the gov. “Be careful, there is nothing anyone can do about it, and the party is above the laws they make.

          The scientists and other intellectuals have very critical opinions of the party, some of which have been taken away for “reeducation” for months at a time. One guy I know recently disappeared for the 5th time in two years. He has been gone for four months so far, which is the longest time period he has ever disappeared. That 4th time they took him, they told him that if they have to come get him again he will never come back. Mind you, there are spies that patrol the cities, just as they did during the Qin dynasty, in order to seek out dissenters and label them for “reeducation” just like during dynastic times.

          The more common people like software engineers working for private companies, programmers, small business people, and others I have associated with who hold at least BA, BS, Masters, or PhD degrees have expressed frustrations, helplessness, hopelessness, ignorance, denial, or even disinterest in talking about the gov. Many people simply said, “Lets not talk about things we can’t do anything about. They control everything and it is dangerous to challenge them. It is useless to challenge them.” Furthermore, these are people who regularly inquire about how to go to America, Canada, Australia, or Europe.

          Now think about it! How many classes are there in China? How much control over personal success does each individual have. How much is education worth in China? How much does it matter? One of my most humble business friends told me, “If the party wants you to be rich, then you will be rich.” This is something I will never forget. This is one of the richest guys I am close friends with and he was made rich by a government contract for his securities company because of a connection through his father back in 1990. At that time he was a fresh out of college BS in statistics. He admitted to me that he had no idea what he was doing at first, so he just acted like he knew and everything worked out. He also warned me that it is not safe in China because things could go wrong at any time and that this peace will not last, so its best to have an escape route. He himself keeps a low profile, drives a normal car, lives in a normal apartment, dresses casually, spends as much time as possible with his family, and has no mistresses. He is literally afraid to draw attention to himself due to his accumulated wealth, so he is somewhat restricted to the type of lifestyle he can live for whatever reason.

          Now take Hong Kong and Taiwan as examples. I like to compare China to those countries because they are also Chinese. What type of governance do they have? How successful have they been in developing and increasing the wealth and lifestyle quality of their population? Look at the gini coefficients for each country and then how long has it taken them to reach their relative levels of lifestyle quality, wealth, comfort, and safety. Which system wins? No system is perfect and no system can totally do away with the human green, which eventually leads to corruption and exploitation. No system has successfully eliminated class polarization. However, some systems do allow for corruption more than others and some even tend to perpetuate it. Dictatorship and one party government is one of those systems, while democracy is a system that allows for relative comfort , wealth, and high quality of life for a majority of its population.

          It is not shameful to be taken advantage of or brainwashed by a dictatorship style government. What is shameful is to protect that government even when you know what the truth is. The whole democratic world is willing to stand with the Chinese people, but at the same time they are ready to act as antagonists to the gov. of China.

          People do not oppose Chinese people and do not hate China. What they hate is a dictatorship who spends more on policing its own people than it does on a national defense budget. Why would a government have to spend so much on protecting itself from its own people? Don’t you think there is something wrong with this picture?

          • simon

            what?! HK and Taiwan have populations that are incomparable to that of China AND they have had more time developing their economies, it’s really illogical to be comparing China to the two, in fact there probably isn’t even any suitable country that could be compared to.

            Also hate to burst your bubble, but the HK economy is pretty much controlled by 4 tycoons (i believe) who own everything from utilities, manufacturing, construction, retail assets there. There was a really interesting article that went in depth about how they pretty much have monopoly power in HK but i never saved the link and can’t be bothered to find it (i think it was marketwatch).

            And democratic countries aren’t necessarily exempt from corruption. When HK was transitioning i’m sure there was much much bribes being made to officials just to get favoritism same for in Taiwan, to think some people were able to get wealthy first in these countries on merit would just be plain ignorance bordering on stupidity.

            I believe it’s a natural progression that as countries become more developed, the realization by the masses of corruption becomes more apparent whilst its tolerance becomes less to the point that governments must address this issue in order to stay in power. Hopefully, by this logic, as China continues to develop and its citizens become more aware of the rampant corruption that exists and less tolerant of it. Perhaps it will also come to be that there will be ever greater pressure for the CCP to reign in this largesse in order to stay legitimate, how long this will take however, is something that i would not dare predict.

          • mr. wiener

            The tight control of the HK economy was also covered in China smack. I’d show you link, but I’m a dunce at computers.

          • asdf

            “one party system run by thugs only out to enrich themselves. Where do those thugs emigrate too after they steal honest Chinese citizens money? They move to a democratic countries! Why is that?”

            “rich people who were made rich through their connections to corrupt gov. officials, or they are allowed to be rich and protected by gov. connections have I ever heard praise for the gov.”

            You think these “thugs” don’t exist in democratic countries like India? or Russia? Why do so many Filipinos sacrifice their beloved democracy and immigrate illegally to One Party China? It’s all about money. If a country’s richer, people move there. Nobody cares if the Government is this or that.

          • Don’t believe the hype

            asdf, your comments are by far the funniest here- “Nobody cares if the Government is this or that.” Hilarious, I’ll keep an eye on your posts in case you come up with some other great ones.

          • kodi

            No one said anything about Democratic countries totally eliminating corruption! Look at the USA! We still have corruption to varying degrees…… With the rights to vote your chances of choosing the least corrupt individuals to govern are higher. If the leaders fuck up, then they lose their jobs.

            Russia a democracy? Check the headlines again because Putin recently stole office. Filipines is a great example of a screwed up democracy. Actually not many countries have been able to get it to work well because there is so much going on in the international scene, mostly lead by the United States, to exert power over the globe.

            Nowhere is perfect……

            I do think China is comparable to Taiwan and Hongkong to some degree. If 20,000,000 Chinese people can act in a civilized manner and practice some form of organized democratic government with relative success, then so can 1.5 billion. If Chinese people were allowed to chose their leaders based on merit and ability then don’t you think the results could be different. Perhaps if that were allowed to happen we could learn more about the potential advantages and disadvantages of democracy and single party government.

            I do believe that both styles can be reconciled to form a better government system.

      • sfphoto1

        And who’s going to humiliate China? You? Do you have ICBMs?

  • tai wai

    Eh, I’m bored now. I think I’ve sufficiently proven that I can play at a nationalistic shitstain’s level and win.

    That was easy. Didn’t even break a sweat.

    • Guang Xiang

      I just don’t understand why people got to be so indignant about criticism towards the party. As a Chinese, I also wouldn’t want my kids growing up thinking the Party is magnificent, the Japanese are pure evil, and the West are out to get us. Don’t you (asdf, hongjian, some others) realize, it was because of this mainland “moral and national” education that got you to have such a polarized view of the world in the first place?

      asdf: sorry, but reading through the whole thing, your emotions got in the way of your debate.

      Nationalism is old fashion.

      • asdf

        Well the other choice is to have them grow up thinking the Party is pure evil and out to get us, and the west is out to get us. Chinese national education is a joke. I never believe anything the Party tells its people. I constantly scoff at the ridiculous news articles on Chinese voicepieces such as “China daily” or “Xinhua”. NEITHER do i believe anything from western news sources. It’s not Chinese propaganda and glorification of the communist party which installed such a strong patriotism in people like me Hongjian and Zappa Frank. I received the entirety of my education in western classrooms where critical thinking and religious faith towards democracy are hypocritically enforced side by side. A classroom where any questioning towards the democratic system resulted in ridicule from classmates or detention from the teacher. It’s the Western demonetization of the party and the general hateful attitude towards China from foreigners like tai wai which constructed our “polarized view”.

        • asdf

          “thinking the Party is pure evil and out to get us, and the west is magnificent.”
          sorry typo

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            “[Well the other choice is to have them grow up…] thinking the Party is pure evil and out to get us, and the west is magnificent.”

            So, doing away with brainwashing and letting them come up with their own conclusions through critical thinking will have them think the party is evil and the West is magnificent?

          • asdf

            How the hell do we do away with brainwashing? If there’s no brainwashing to begin with then it is impossible to think critically. Critical thinking is the process of doubting what we learn and extracting facts from bullshit. If there’s no bullshit and only facts, then kids will understand that their wellbeing as chinese citizens is independent from whether china is ruled by one, two, or three billion parties.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Yes, your definition of “critical thinking” is correct. However, not everything we learn has to be “brainwashing”. Critical thinking can be used to sort through opinions, theories, etc to find fact. Or perhaps find where you stand on political or moral grounds. There’s not always just one answer to every problem, and critical thinking can be used to find which solution is best for your own interests, or what you think is the best for everyone’s interests.

          • asdf

            Ok then lets extract the problem and solve it using “critical thinking”. The problem is that Mainland China is a huge corrupt shithole. It was shit under the Qing dynasty, it was Shit under the KMT, and now it continues to be shit under the CCP.

            “There’s not always just one answer to every problem”

            Yeah, this is why you and all the other ultra-religious democracy missionaries are advocating the overthrow of the CCP. The CCP is the one and only Problem. After the CCP with its crippling “brainwashing” is expelled, China will be magnificent. Why is it that even those capable of free thought will turn their brain off instantly when their faith towards democracy starts conflicting with their reason? What improvements has Democracy contributed to india russia or the Philippines? You can’t use Japan, Taiwan, or the US to compare governments. Those are all DEVELOPED countries. These comparisons will only be valid AFTER China has reached a similar level of DEVELOPMENT.

            and please don’t brainlessly say “Durr China will never be developed unless it becomes democratic” THAT’S ABSURD! there’s no historical evidence whatsoever to support that claim.

            k moving on. now lets
            “find which solution is best for your own interests, or what you think is the best for everyone’s interests.”

            Would it be to Overthrow the CCP and set up a Democracy? Well, if the collapse of the Soviet Union is a good indicator of things to come. This would lead to an economic collapse, and the separation of regions such as Tibet, western xinjiang or even parts of inner mongolia, Corruption would still be rampant, and living standards won’t improve much.

            The other option is to be supportive of the CCP and allow china to maintain its current rate of development. You can’t say “i support the CCP’s economic development but not its brainwashing” That’s Naive. Brainwashing is necessary under any leadership. China cannot advocate democratic ideals while remaining Authoritarian the same way America cannot advocate Authoritarian ideals while remaining Democratic. As i said before, since America is a DEVELOPED nation, and China is DEVELOPING. China needs to take more drastic measures to maintain a balance in “Brainwashing”. As china’s living conditions improve and the influence of its soft power strengthens, the measures taken to ensure the SAME LEVEL of brainwashing will simultaneously soften down.

            If you still don’t get it by now then i’ll just go to your house and punch you in the face since further reasoning would obviously be ineffective.

          • Capt. WED

            @asdf

            You are a pure faggot plain to see… LOL

            Let me explain: cos democracy == less insane people == the people == won’t goto war with other democracies == more safe world == PEACE! Democracy wins! You dictartorship is teh fail. LOL. Watch me invade you faggots soon.

            What fag lol.

        • tai wai

          It’s the Western demonetization of the party and the general hateful attitude towards China from foreigners like tai wai which constructed our “polarized view”.

          Snerk.

          Yeah, I hate China. Which is why I live here. With my wife. In my house, which I bought. I’m just a masochist, what can I say.

          My my, you are sensitive, aren’t you?

        • Guang Xiang

          What about just learn to love your country and countrymen without the need to antagonize another country?

          I am curious though; during your western education, did they have exercises where you learn about Marxism and Lenin and do mock debates on the pros and cons of it? I wonder if they have the same for democracy in China.

          Also, you might be using the word patriotism incorrectly. Nationalism focuses on unity by way of cultural background, heritage and language. Patriotism is love for the nation through values and belief. Nationalism enforces superiority over other country while patriotism is admiration for a way of life. Nationalism cannot tolerate criticism and will consider it an insult, while patriotism could tolerate some level of criticism and learn from new ideas. As such, I believe that the communist party is installing strong nationalism in people.

          I believe that you are indeed more patriotic because you are at least able to handle some of the criticism you hear, but Hongjian on the other hand is ridiculously nationalistic, really old fashion. (European countries were largely nationalistic in the early 1900s)

          I know this is largely irrelevant, but if you play Civilization IV, there is a reason why nationalism is earlier in the tech tree before patriotism.

          • asdf

            “Marxism and Lenin” are dead. Even China is no longer a communist country anymore. Of course they can debate about a political system that’s dead. It’s like fighting against a punching bag. Howcome they didn’t tolerate these debates back in the cold war during the McCarthy era? Because back then communist ideologies were still a threat to the american government. The soviet union was still a surviving communist state. Howcome we never get any debate about the Pros and Cons of the modern Technocratic Chinese government? Howcome every time i suggest such a forbidden topic i am swept away by an immediate tsunami of bullshit.

          • Guang Xiang

            You are way too sensitive, I only asked you a simple question out of personal curiosity. You provided a good response; then you devolved to thinking this is some sort of forbidden topic and regard everything disagreeable as ‘bullshit’

            And stop labeling everything non-china as the west. Why is everything else “western bullshit”. All i see here is a row between China and Hong Kong

          • asdf

            lol okok i’ll calm down ^^

          • sonny

            not sure where asdf went to school, but his experience sounds exceptional. i was into marx during hs and wasn’t harassed at all. dead prez and ratm were both pretty popular among students at the time.

            anyways, +1 to any comment that uses civ IV to reinforce a good point. good stuff.

      • asdf

        I don’t care what what type of propaganda my kids receive. There’s no such thing as education without brainwashing anyway. If they are critical thinkers, they’ll deny any type of bullshit that their teachers try to feed them, both western and chinese. If they can’t think, then i’d prefer them being fed chinese bullshit.

        • fdsa

          asdf, i was born and raised in Canada as well (canadian born chinese). Since ur Canadian, u should undestand this about propaganda… Why is CBC news alot better then any american news station on tv? It is because it shows both sides of the story. This is why kinda why HK people are against this new education. They are worried once this education is established, they will not show both sides of the China history..as recent as 6/4/1989. (most mainland people dont even know the image of the man infront of the tank). HK public are afraid if they do not speak up now, they would not be able to speak up later. HK is great because they have the right and are allowed to stand up against the government without fear or being punished. In Hk, they see all the problems with the Mainland government and how average people have no say in most cases. HK people have total right to stand up for what they want, regardless on what we think if it is stupid or not. If the majority of HK people believe this is not right for them..who are we to say they are wrong? I live in Hong Kong now, i been here for 3 years and i understand how they feel. asdf do you live in HK? Have you lived in HK? To say something like ” If they can’t think, then i’d prefer them being fed chinese bullshit.” That is ignorance. Right now HK people are thinking. They are thinking about what they want for there future, instead of being fed bullshit. I think you are probably a dumbshit trolling.

          • asdf

            if they can think on their own then they wouldn’t have to worry about chinese propaganda now would they?
            after all i went through the full onslaught of western brainwash education in my childhood and still came out unconvinced.
            As i said kids in HK who can think will continue to think. Those who don’t will still eat bullshit. Only this time, they’re offering it two different flavors. Chinese bullshit and Western bullshit.

          • fdsa

            for who does not understand why HK people are mad. This article explains a big part of it.

            http://asiancorrespondent.com/86739/hong-kong-schools-get-mainland-propaganda/

            The government has quietly provided HK$13 million taxpayer dollars to the Hong Kong Patriotic Education Services Centre to produce a 34-page booklet titled ‘Chinese Model National Conditions Teaching Manual’ for Hong Kong schools. How this came to be without proper public consultation, professional vetting or Legislative Council debate, remains yet another mystery in misgovernance.
            The Tsang administration allocated this annual fund to a hitherto unknown ‘patriotic education’ outfit created by the Hong Kong Federation of Education Workers, which represents 26,000 comrade teachers and is an integral part of the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong, the political party with the closest ties to the mainland’s communist government.

          • asdf

            “hong-kong-schools-get-mainland-propaganda”
            WHAT DOES THE TITLE TELL YOU ABOUT THIS ARTICLE RIGHT OFF THE BAT? YOU THINK THIS SOURCE IS RELIABLE AND OBJECTIVE?
            WHY DO I EVEN HAVE TO EXPLAIN THINGS THIS FAR?!?!?
            WAKE UP!!!!!

          • Guang Xiang

            highly sensationalized article title

          • fdsa

            Troll..ur caps lock is on

          • asdf

            You judge a piece of writing not by its title, not by its sources, not by its content, but by whether or not it is in lower or upper case?
            The level of your intellect is too high for me to conceptualize.

          • fdsa

            asdf, where do you get your source of news from?
            A quote from you
            “If they are critical thinkers, they’ll deny any type of bullshit that their teachers try to feed them, both western and chinese. If they can’t think, then i’d prefer them being fed chinese bullshit.”

            propaganda has a very strong influence on young people. If you believe propaganda has no influence on people..explain North Korea.
            China propaganda is very strong in the mainland. Most people do not know any recent history of anything bad happening in China. You goto any village, factory or any where in China and ask them about June 4th, see how much they know about that compared to us asdf. You said ur Canadian born Chinese..im sure you know more about that day then they do. They ignore it even happen. I am not anti China..i think China is great, but they just dont provide the same type of education for there children as the current Hong Kong system does. People believe this new “propaganda” if you want to call it that, is just the first step in changing the way Hong Kong people look at the central government. China governement is not an open book. Hong Kong wants to keep there government as open as possible, with election, information, culture and how they live. When this new education system was brought in, nobody in the public was told about it and it just happen with public tax paying money. Hong Kong people used there civil right to protest against it. To call innocent children on there ignorance on not how to seperate the bullshit from the truth, is like saying child molestation is ok..because the kids arent smart enough to know its wrong and to let it happen. We as adults have to protect our children when we see something is wrong, when they can not.
            Your intellect is highly suspect to me. Then again you are a troll.

          • asdf

            Ok? they don’t include June 4th in the official school curriculum. Whats wrong with that? Cherry picking exists in schools everywhere. Koreans still complain about Japanese schools hiding “everything bad” from their history textbooks. Oh just because Chinese people don’t know about june 4th means they’re brainwashed? What kind of logic is that?

            Go to Taiwan or Hong Kong, ask them about April 12th and see how many people know what you’re talking about. Do you know what happened on April 12th? No? Oh I guess you must brainwashed then.

          • fdsa

            When i asked you about things you only cherry pick my comment,except for taking the whole thing for a full. You only comment on portion of my comment. Now your a trolling cherry picker.

    • tai wai

      Oh, wait, one last thing:

      Hongjian

      I actually welcome China’s rise. I look forward to the day when the US and China can stand as equal partners on the world stage. And when that day comes, I look forward to the moment that it finally dawns on you and your kind that you are still on the outside, looking in.

      You think the CCP “stands against” the West? Ha, you really fell for it! They know which side their bread is buttered on. They aren’t as blind or short-sighted as you.

      Sure, they’ll feed some red meat to the Angry Youth now and again. “Oh, American Imperialism is bad!” They’ll give you your Two Minutes Hate. Why? To keep you monsters from becoming revolutionaries.

      You are just another Ah Q, angry at everything, but too dim to understand why. You are a buffoon.

      • starting

        US and CHina will never stand as equals. Soviets and USA never stood as equals during the height of the cold war either(america had 2x the nukes russia did) contries are constantly evolving if DIFFERENT directions. Modern technology just exacerbated that:
        China’s public attitudes evolved to that they all hate:
        1. government officials of anykind anywhere(just check the number of chinese arrested in USA in 2011 compared to 1989)
        2. Black africans of anykind anywhere(China or CHinatown)
        3. Uygurs(here we know the attempt on genocide by Hans in 2008 was stopped by the Peoples Army itself ironically)
        4. Vietnamese(2nd most hated in Hong kOng also compared to CCP)
        America’s Public:
        1. realizes its evolving into another Brazil
        2. Partisanship of a 2 Party system has CRIPPLED the US economy(aka Health care reform)
        3. Growing Poverty on its 2 largest populations(whites and hispanics) threatens it jewish and chinese populations who haold the top 3% of the country’s money

        • Chom

          Hi starting, can you post some links/references for the point you made below? I want to look into it.

          “3. Uygurs(here we know the attempt on genocide by Hans in 2008 was stopped by the Peoples Army itself ironically)”

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FlNvzEX4eo starting

          • Chom

            starting, your best evidence for “attempt on genocide” is a youtube video in Dutch? When you use the word “genocide” so lightly it really discredits otherwise somewhat valid points.

            Your other points are somewhat true, but don’t generalise. Not ALL Chinese hate ALL the people belonging to your list above.

            For example, if we were to believe what you said above then:

            “China’s public attitudes evolved to that they all hate: Black africans of anykind anywhere(China or CHinatown)”

            A number of my friends in China have boyfriends from Africa, and some have even married and settled down. How does that work???

  • Gontraf

    Good call HK! The whole thing was just doomed to failure from the start.

    Before you could teach HK kids anything about nation and morals, you’d have to put the Horde and Alliance ones in different schools.

  • southernortherner

    and giving kids lollipop stop signs to stop something they surely cannot fully understand is clearly nothing similar to brainwash…

    • simon

      oh the irony, everyone is brainwashed to some degree.

  • The Enlightened One

    Hey,

    All I am saying is that there is a big reason why China is filled with training centers and after-hours schools. If they educational system was so good they wouldn’t need these would they?

    Did you ever go to a school after school to practice math? A second language? Or any other subject when you were like 4?

    No, because you simply didn’t need it. You had time to play. I support Hong Kong, keep it out! The educational system in China is like stealing a child’s youth and giving very little to nothing in return.

    • asdf

      The same could be said about Korea and Japan.
      Your point?

      • HeSaidSheSaid

        Monday, July 30, 2012 at 4:50 pm
        Troll goes off topic again.
        Every country has skeletons in it’s closet.
        No country is perfect.
        ‘Little asdf, you were bad in class today’, says the teacher.
        ‘But miss Johnny and Bobby are doing the same thing!!!’
        ‘Come on now asdf, don’t be a tattle tale!’
        ‘But 400 years ago the ancestors of another country did something that was as bad as what I’m doing now, so don’t look at me!’ asdf says, sniffling and wiping his nose.
        The teacher realised at that moment that little asdf could do nothing but finger point in a feeble attempt to change the topic from himself as quickly as possible. That was the day that she gave up on the little child.
        Pointing out other people’s problems don’t make yours disappear. This is a life lesson that the teacher gifted asdf, but he chose to ignore it. That night the teacher wept over her failure…

    • simon

      Not really, it’s more the fact that the competition to get into better schools is so fierce that parents will try to get the upper hand for their children by enrolling in after school tutoring.

  • Anonynonymous

    Drink piss long enough, and you’ll think it’s lemonade.

    • Scott

      No, having drunk lemonade then obliged to drink piss no one would confuse the two. Well, after a steady dose of piss you may want to think there’s no difference, you might say there’s no difference, others may even try to persuade you there’s no difference, you could even come up with the bon mot “drink piss long enough and you’ll think it’s lemonade” but, no, once having drunk lemonade you know it’s not piss.

      • mr. wiener

        “piss” is also booze in Oz, NZ and England.

        • Scott

          “Piss” is slang for beer, not booze, and he intended piss as in urine.

          • mr. wiener

            Fully understood, no need to get “pissed” off Scotty :)

          • mr. wiener

            …I was just taking the piss.

        • Chom

          piss off!

          • mr. wiener

            I’d rather get pissed. You buying?

  • Li RuiKe

    Hong Kong education policy should be the education policy of all of China.
    Hong Kong government should be the government of all of China.
    Hong Kong business law should be the business law of all of China.
    Hong Kong freedoms of speech and press should be freedoms in all of China.
    Hong Kong rule of law and IPR should be the standard in all of China.
    Hong Kong respect for human rights should be the adopted in all of China.
    Hong Kong developed while the Party forced the mainland to be retarded.
    Let Hong Kong replace Beijing as the center of power in a united China.

  • Foreign Devil

    The fact that Chinese industry places a higher value on foreign education credentials than Chinese credentials. The fact that most super rich Chinese send their children overseas to be educated. Makes it completely obvious that the Chinese people AND government view their education system as inferior. HK has a very strong case in a non-rigged court of law.

    • asdf

      Koreans send their kids overseas to be educated, Japanese send their kids overseas to be educated, Taiwanse send their kids overseas to be educated, same could be said about India, HK, the Philippines. Their education system must all be inferior. Your idiotic rant hardly provides any logical evidence for anything.

      • fdsa

        asdf, where did you grow up in Canada? How old are you?

        • asdf

          You judge a person’s statement by his age and location? Why don’t you pay more attention to the logic or evidence in a statement instead of worrying about its writer’s personal details.

          • fdsa

            Part of a person personality is from there location and environment. Age is also can be judge because of experience. If you believe cultural influence has zero influence on children. Lets see what happens if you send your kid to Compton and see how enviroment and location affects them. Why dont you pay attention to my comments in a whole instead of cherry picking.

  • Karl Man

    it’s so disappointing to see how a lot of HK people think they are more upper class than mainland please wake up and get real, over the last decades breed of HK people are arrogant and rude what kind of education is that tell me how is you style any better.

    • linette

      Karl Man
      No doubt you can find stupid and arrogant people in any country. We have plenty stupid, rude, arrogant people in HK just like in China or USA. And reasonable Hk people don’t hate Mainland Chinese. We are all Chinese.

      HK people don’t like it when the China Chinese come in and try to change our HK system. Also we don’t like it when China Chinese try to take our Hk gov’t benefits without paying HK gov’t. It’s hurting our HK economy.
      I think that is very understandable. You don’t want us HK people to take benefits from China gov’t without paying tax to the China gov’t right?

      • James

        Respectfully, Linette, while I don’t disagree with your comment, we’re not ‘ALL’ Chinese. You indicate you’re a HK’er, you know the cultural issues here are more complex because of our cultural make-up…

        • linette

          James, the last time I check I am pretty sure I am Chinese. I look Chinese and I speak Cantonese. My whole family grandpa, grandma, mom, dad, uncles….all were born before 1997 under british rule. We all hold British hong kong birth certificates. We are cantonese.

          Hongkongese are Chinese. Chinese people who live under Hk gov’t in the land called HK.

          China Chinese are Chinese living under China gov’t in main land China.

          Taiwanese are Chinese living under Taiwan gov’t in the land called Taiwan.

          Singaporean are Chinese living in Singapore under Singapore gov’t.

          • James

            linette, the last time I check(ed) I am pretty sure I am Hong Kong citizen, so technically a Chinese national, but not Chinese race. Like you, although a longer history it seems, my family, great grandpa, grandpa / grandmum, mom, dad, uncles… all born in HK before hand-over..

            Hong Kongers are Chinese, but not necessarily racially Chinese who live under HK gov’t in the land called HK.

            Anyway, I’m not sure your point – my point wasthat there are many different HK People – not only ethnic Chinese. The same can definitely be said for Singapore, too. This means, obviously, our challenges are amplified by our diverse make-up.

          • linette

            Sorry James, I am just speaking for myself and the Chinese who live in Hong kONG. I am sure there are other nonChinese living in HK who are Hk citizens. They are also hongkongese. May I ask you what is your race and ethnicity?

          • James

            linette, i’m white. no worries – pretty much everyone I know in HK (past one generation arrived from mainland anyway) aren’t particularly race-oriented. I get your point though – I think we’re on the same page. At the end of the day, we’re all in this together; education, housing, healthcare… whatever colour your skin or language you speak (as long as it’s ‘Chinese’ or English), we have a responsibility to take an active stand on civic matters. HK people really are all in it together…

            I think we’re reading from the same page.

      • linette

        http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/features/hong-kong-mainland-china-tensions-mothers-tourists-cars.html

        Look at the financial burden on HK taxpayers caused by the mainlanders. If your China system is so good, then why hundred thousands of you keep trying to get into hK to use the HK system?

  • appletree

    HK should be given the freedom to develop their own curriculum. In fact, each province in China should be allowed to develop their own curriculum, which is probably not going to happen any time soon.

  • appletree

    Keep the curriculum reasonable so kids don’t have to drill endlessly like many kids do in China. Check out this interview of a recent high school graduate from China. These kids have to study 90 hours a week, more than twice as many hours as the average adult works!

    http://hopewelljournal.com/2012/07/profile-a-recent-chinese-high-school-graduate-from-the-city-of-gaobeidian/

  • Sun Tzu

    After the BRitish brainwashing them they have the nerve to call Chinese education brainwashed. LOL..in hong kong they call each other paul and peter, but they look nothing like paul or peter, they kiss the hands of white british and the women pay to have sex with white men, and look down on their people…and they say they are not brainwashed. Hong Konger need to move to British, since they are bunch white wannabe with no pride.

    • mr. wiener

      HK women pay to have sex with white men!!!
      Do you have any specific bars or nightclubs where this happens? I want names and E-mails please!!

      • mr. wiener

        Brett, Little Wolf, Moop, Whiskers, Road trip!!! Anyone else want in?

        • moop

          well well well…. where is brett anyways? i am in korea brett!!! incheon and seoul

      • linette

        come on Mr. wiener. You are white man right??? me love you long time. Let me fuck you. wait…let me pay you first. How much are you asking?

        • mr. wiener

          I’d just ask for a nominal gratuity , more like a honesty box kind of thing. I wouldn’t want to take advantage of anyone after all :)

          • http://Www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

            Come my pasty, rotund, balding, trashy, stereotypically American friends and I shall guide through Hong Kong.

            Linette, you need pay to have sex with us as long as you translate to the other girls. Keep that between us though.

            All aboard the MTR!

          • http://Www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

            Sorry Linette, I meant you needn’t pay.

    • linette

      I give up……..

    • James

      are the Indian HKers also white wannabes with no (racial, I presume) pride? Ridiculous trolling exercise, Sun Tzu…

      • mr. wiener

        More like : “Sun Tzu: The art of whore”.

    • The Enlightened One

      “he women pay to have sex with white men”

      Hahahahaha!!!…. =)

      *serious face* =|

      Can I know where you got this information?

      I need to get in on this action.

      • linette

        I need to go to the doctor and get a sex and race change to white man so I can get some action too. I am a male whore and I am very expensive. I like it dirty in bed. That Hk slut she better pay me a lot of money. hahhaa…………………

        • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

          “I am a HK woman and I have l-o-v-e and l-u-s-t for a-n-y white man because they are a-l-l like Dolf Lundgren and Arnold Shwarzenegger with amazing humour, intelligence, charisma, teeth and e-n-d-o-w-m-e-n-t. Like Arnie’s maid, I w-a-n-t their babies…and I WILL p-a-y for this privilege…” Richard North writes: “Buuuuullllshiiittttt…” (PS Richard North knows well, and respects, HK *and* CN women.)

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      The HK Chinese females I socialise with in Singapore I would classify as beautiful, intelligent, sexy and humorous. Their dress sense is also very classy – especially the Jimmy Choo shoes. The Zinc Oxide tape protecting the bra-less A-Cup breasts is interesting; but I can overlook such things on a pretty female.

    • Nanny Hiccups

      ti’s the art of war my friend. and ridiculousness as well.

    • Xiongmao

      You know, I’m not sure if I should applause a trolling well done or berate an utter moron.

      • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

        It’s best in this “social media” world in which we live, to get vaccinated against the Troll Virus. Once you’re vaccinated, the immunity is AMAZING. You can see their faces down your Ethernet cable and chuckle!

  • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

    While I admire the folks in HK for their stance, the real question is can they outlast the powers to be in Beijing? Technically, there is only a decade or two left on the treaty of transfer between Beijing and London – after that, if the powers to be in Beijing are in a foul mood, then the ‘education’ will be at the end of a rifle barrel.

    • Nanny Hiccups

      they don’t seem to understand their future as a part of china. I think life will become very harsh for them, since the PRC will make a point of proving to them that they are not superior to mainland chinese.

      • http://epukhk@yahoo.co.uk e peter

        PRC and many mainlanders need to understand that this is not a superiority issue. This is an issue that goes to the heart of freedom to learn and to say whatever we want (within reason), like what we are doing right now. Many a times, during my time in China, so many young people I come across could not express themselves fully, as if something is stopping them to do so. Not by the invisible power or force of the regime, but more so, they have never been encouraged or taught to voice their inner thoughts properly as children…….In a way, young people of China are envious that not just HK people, but others in the world could stand-up and demand to be listened to………something that they find difficult to do. I do believe things are changing in China, and to see what has changed in the last 10 years in China, 20 years down the line I am hoping that HK and others in this world can begin to ‘brainwash’ the regime in China.

  • Xiongmao

    Seems like there’s something akin to a consensus for once among the rabid netizens. I must note this day in my calender.

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      Gold = 1st, and this is August 1st, 2012. Also the 1st day that the diminutive host nation Britain started winning some Golds. A fantastic day for free speech…maybe Fauna will have to upgrade her servers, but servers are cheap nowadays… Hot stuff…

  • hacienda

    persevere and be vigilant.
    Be happy that this story still leaked out.

  • Wgh

    I don’t usually reply on here but I must today! Hong Kong must be fall! It’s the only utopia place in China where humane Chinese people made a home!

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      You mean Hong Kong must “befall” as in “happen” as in be maintained as “reality”. Very true. It will be because the people are as you say humane – tough folks business-wise – but humane. Hong Kong will always be Hong Kong. Love the place.

  • http://epukhk@yahoo.co.uk e peter

    Children in most democratised countries are taught to think like adults very early in life. They are taught to analyse the good, the bad and the ugly from objective angles, as well as subjective ones too. It is the balance between objective and subjective viewpoints, that makes one ‘think’ like adults. Having lived in China for years, and being someone who regards himself is a sino-phile, I can only say that from my point of view ‘mainland education’ is a contributor to its society ills. When children are not taught to be objective, but to rote learn the wonderful world of China’s Communist Party and the great achievements it has carried out for the Chinese humankind, would be a little disconcerting for HK parents who have seen all too many times (till today) the bad and ugly side of the Communist Party. On a more practical side, my experience with Chinese people in the mainland is that the smart ones are those who really do have reservations about their Country’s education system and are eager to think and learn differently to what they were taught in their formative years, and there are those who are trully behind the Communist Party and are either too indifferent or naive to care that there is an objective world out there. The latter types of people usually are the ones who cannot hold a balanced discussion, they are misguided into skewed realities, and they are also normally the lazy types who would not allow their brains to be exercised, or shall I say challenged. My experience is that these people are also those who are easily tempted into immoral deeds, as they lack the ‘mental upbringing and tenacity’ that is essential into transforming into balanced adults.

    • mario

      you took my words right out of my mouth.

  • Bill in Shanghai

    Hong Kongers/Taiwanese/Singaporeans – typical ‘fair-weather- ethnic Chinese. On the (very rare) occasion Chna does something positive (like, give them money or business) – they all beat their chests and say ‘we’re Chinese’. Rest of the time they look down their noses at Mainlanders and say, we’re Hong Kongers/Taiwanese/Singaporeans. Miss the Brits now???????

    • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

      Out of all the Taiwanese I know, I can’t recall a single one that calls themselves “Chinese” or beats their chest over anything but being Taiwanese. Sometimes obnoxiously so.

      • mr. wiener

        Zhongguoren perhaps, but never Daluren. Do the Chinese really send business and money to Taiwan? Damn! how come no one told me?
        Singaporean would say they are “Chinese la” unless they were Indian or Malay. Hongkies would hate to be mistaken for a “locust”.
        We miss the poms in Australia, but only in the way you’d miss an overbearing or abusive parent.

        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          I guess I just know a lot more of the very patriotic types. I was in Taroko Gorge last weekend, listening to my friends and the driver bitch about the masses of daluren tourists. I didn’t get a single photo that weekend thanks to the obscene amount of bright colored umbrellas and high-heeled girls struggling to walk up and down canyon paths with their nice LV bags in tow, clogging up every landscape I tried to shoot.

  • Fman

    I guess the mainland Chinese are just pussies amongst the dogs…. ;)

  • caraboga

    There is nothing ‘wrong’ per se with politicizing Hong Kong education. It’s just that it has stopped since the 1920s (riots, bad times) and only came back in resurgence in the late 30s and 40s when the Japanese occupied Hong Kong (really bad times). While the education model of Hong Kong is based on the British until very recently, social studies classes in primary school stayed well within simple facts. Explainations of causations were simplified for children to understand, and the focus was on the west, but I never recalled a political undertone. If anything there was really little to talk about pertaining to China post the 1945-49 civil war. I didn’t recall being taught much about Communist China until I started reading about the five year plans when I turned 15. Even then, it was not a condemnation of political systems but more so of mis-management and the personalities of those in charge.

    The difference here is that the new text _does_ in fact grade political systems and states unfairly how one political system is ‘better’ or ‘worse’ than others. Hong Kong is a budding democracy. To those that participate in the process, trying to convince Hong Kong children that what Hong Kong adults are trying to establish as wrong, is a slap in the face. Further more, it smacks of a different time where other little red books were passed around teenagers and parents were made to kneel in glass. In the west and east, the family institution rule the child’s world. The politics of the family, and that of which in Hong Kong right now is overwhelmingly supportive of democracy, is something that the Chinese government has meddled in before, and the results have been disastrous. The government should be the last entity commenting about how different styles of government should be implemented as whatever opinion it states will be seen as self serving. Especially to little kids.

    Then there is the statement of Democratic institutions being inherently unstable and fractious to the people. To say that screams willful ignorance. The United States has been ruled under the same bill of rights that has been signed 236 years ago. For the sake of comparison, the Sung dynasty was 316 years long with a move of capitals in the middle. The Tang dynasty was two hundred and eighty nine years long. The Tsing is at 268 years. Discounting the Han dynasty, the US’s longevity of government is right up there with some of the most prosperous times of China. An established democracy lowers the level of violence between social classes, gives people a platform to have their opinions be heard and generally cuts down on the number of revolutions per century. What’s so unstable about that?

    Last but not least, we have another 35 years before the 50 years no change guarantee is up. China needs to fulfill their end of the promise to the Hong Kong people, and in fact, to the world. And we need to hold them to it.

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