Jackie Chan Says Hong Kong Protests Too Much, Needs Limits

Jackie Chan

From Sina Weibo:

@南方都市报: Jackie Chan: Hong Kong Criticizes and Demonstrates About Everything, Should Be Restricted: During an exclusive interview with Southern People Weekly, Jackie Chan said that Hong Kong had become a city of parades [demonstrations]. “Protesting China, protesting the leaders, protesting everything, demonstrating about everything. There should be regulations on what can be demonstrated against and what can’t be demonstrated against.” “We have returned to China now, how can we still be criticizing Chinese leaders all the time? Whoever amongst you has what it takes can come govern, but you guys don’t have it in you, and all you do is criticize.”

Jackie Chan.

[Translation of above captions:

Top: 2009 December 1, photographed in Beijing Gehua Mansion, picture from Southern People Weekly, taken by Jiang Xiaoming.

Bottom: 1992 January 15, Jackie Chan (first row, third one from the left) and other people in Hong Kong show biz organized an international anti-gang violence parade, in hopes that Hong Kong British authorities would take this problem seriously.]

Comments from NetEase:

biyuntian1977 [网易山东省淄博市网友]:

Compared to Boss Fat, he’s just a clown, a lackey.

网易香港网友 ip:116.193.*.*:

Jackie Chan is just a scumbag, get lost out of Hong Kong!

网易江苏省苏州市常熟市网友 ip:218.4.*.*:

Jackie Chan should first control his mouth, and second control his JJ.

[Note: Jackie Chan has an illegitimate daughter from an affair with an actress years ago.]

身份证是居民 [网易江苏省苏州市网友]:

Slaves like to be enslaved! But human beings can’t!

ngsx008 [网易广西南宁市网友]:

Who the hell is Jackie Chan? Who do you think you are? You are nothing but a billionaire, and at best your wealth is at the same level as the head of one of our villages.
You are not an official, and you’ve only got that much wealth, so what are you barking about?

网易广东省深圳市龙岗区网友 ip:219.134.*.*: (responding to above)

I hope everyone can boycott CZ12 [an upcoming film starring Jackie Chan], boycott this hypocrite who doesn’t even acknowledge his own natural daughter, boycott this true slave who doesn’t know the moral principles of the world! I’ll sign up first, those who got guts, ding!!! [1,648 upvotes during the time of translation]

[Note: Jackie Chan eventually admitted to having an illegitimate daughter, but refused to include her into his will.]

P的国度 [网易北京市网友]:

The Aiduo VCD Player that Jackie Chan endorsed went bankrupt, the Subor Learning Machine he endorsed has disappeared. He endorsed Fenhuang Cola, and nobody drinks Fenhuang Cola anymore. He endorsed Kaidi Car, but only a little more than 900 of them were sold nationwide. He endorsed the “non-chemical” BaWang Shampoo, but turned out a carcinogen was found in it. Now he speaks for the government leaders, what do you think?

网易江苏省常州市网友 ip:122.94.*.*: (responding to above)

Seems he can be compared to Major General Zhang [a controversial CCTV military commentator],
Jackie Chan’s representative film is “Who Am I“,
Chow Yun-Fat’s representative film is “A Better Tomorrow” [or in Chinese: True Colors of a Hero]

Comments from Sohu:

風虎雲龍sacred [搜狐广东省梅州市网友]:

[He’s] Just an actor, [he should] just stick to making movies, why gives people a “more brawn than brain” kind of impression?!

新生报道 [搜狐黑龙江省牡丹江市网友]:

Jackie Chan has become more and more disgusting. Looks like a tough man on the outside, but deep down in his bones is the face of a small servile person currying favor with those in power.

lagwtw [搜狐辽宁省沈阳市网友]:

Of course you think China is good, because China has given you so much. All kinds of dark injustice won’t befall you. Wherever you go, you feel that you have face and dignity. [But] Do you know what the ordinary common people on the bottom levels of China think?

无限可能2739348 [搜狐广东省网友]:

Can’t even treat his own natural daughter right, who would believe what he says?

舞道2715071 [搜狐山东省网友]:

Jackie Chan has both money and power, of course he’s happy. A full man doesn’t know the hunger of a starving man. Those who aren’t sick don’t know the suffering of being sick.

北京眼 [搜狐北京市网友]:

This bastard is the dog of interest groups!

DONAT777 [搜狐黑龙江省哈尔滨市网友]:

Jackie Chan is simply a whore who can no longer hack it in Hong Kong and has come to the mainland to swindle money so of course he has to sing praises.

念念不忘1541615 [搜狐北京市网友]:

You have enjoyed the fruit of freedom, so now you have the mouth to say that freedom should be restricted!

丸子木头1628007 [搜狐湖北省武汉市网友]:

I suggest Jackie Chan that if he has extra energy, he should go and screw more women, and no comment on things he doesn’t know about!

糊涂壹世594465 [搜狐手机网友]:

Jackie Chan is a male prostitute, a cheap skank.

Comments from iFeng:

凤凰网山东省网友 手机用户:

[You’re] Just an actor, stop pretending, just stick to making movies.

凤凰网北京市海淀区网友 wmgs:

I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!! I support Jackie Chan!!

凤凰网浙江省网友 阮木:

We should stop Jackie Chan from coming out and making a full of himself.

凤凰网广东省广州市网友 国同:

Uncle Chan should increase his education and learn more to avoid babbling nonsense all the time.

凤凰网广东省深圳市网友 扮老虎吃猪–:

Big Brother [Jacking Chan is often referred to as a “big brother”], your achievements in both virtue and art are so many levels lower than King Lau.

凤凰网上海市网友 djair:

This man doesn’t read much, but talks a lot.

凤凰网未知IP网友 手机用户:

Jackie Chan! I despise you!

凤凰网山西省大同市网友 心如止衡水:

Thank God that you’re not the Chief Executive! Otherwise Hong Kongers would be screwed!

凤凰网上海市浦东新区网友 影形人:

Don’t act like you know anything. You’ve already earned enough money to last you several lifetimes. Behave yourself, don’t talk when there’s no need to talk.

凤凰网天津市网友 农夫自留地:

Jackie Chan is just a downright and candid man, I love his ideas and personality very much.

凤凰网安徽省淮南市网友 YYL661209:

There’s a market for people against the development of social civilization.

凤凰网广西南宁市网友 独狂海:

Support, a country cannot last without law and order!!!

凤凰网未知IP网友 手机用户:

I like Jackie Chan! Because even though he’s in show biz, he’s patriotic, responsible, and compassionate! Compare with some third-rate artists/actors, we can even call Jackie Chan a god!

凤凰网广西桂平市网友 qgz56607:

Jackie Chan was having diner with a couple of friends. When they were a little drunk, they began talking about picking up girls. Jackie Chan asked: “When you’re having diner with the lady of your heart, and you need to go to the bathroom, how do you politely tell her?” Ren Quan [a Chinese singer & actor] jumped to answer: “I’m going to go take a piss.” Jackie Chan: “That’s not polite!” Feng Xiaogang answered with his Beijing accent: “I’m going to relieve myself, be right back.” Jackie Chan: “Not classy. If it was me, I’d say to her: I need to meet and shake hands with a little brother of mine, hope I can introduce him to you tonight.”

凤凰网中国网友 葫芦蛙:

Jackie Chan’s remark is down to earth as well as correct, I completely agree.

Jackie Chan

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  • beijingrrrrr

    what a traitor… hong kong people have a right to protest against china trying to take away their freedom.

    • manofearth

      the true traitors are ppl like u – sadly its unknown to yourself…. dont u feel any shame at all? then again – u aint no chinese after all i assume – happy doing some social riot online now -right? ; )

      • ScottLoar

        Why do you fear his opinion? Why is a person asking for the right to protest “a traitor”? Why do you question the patriotism of a person who tries to make conditions better? Why is free speech a “social riot online”? Why must all Chinese be as narrow-minded as you? Otherwise, they’re not Chinese? I suggest you read the Chinese language newspapers in Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan and Hong Kong to better understand how people like you are viewed by Chinese who are not in mainland China.

        • manofearth

          so y u fear mine? y does he label ppl like mr. chan a traitor? xpressing his right for patriotism – even a scottliar should know that hk is no country. neglecting mr chans free speech i sure would recommend u to read some news online – xept ur mainstream”news” propaganda – beware u may be enlightened by all this bias ppl get from it – a handful of ppl own ALL ur media – that u r so proud representing ur so called “freedom” – wake up scotty…. and stop pretending to be rightous and stop insulting ppl like mr. chan and me… how bout that for a starter…

          • ScottLoar

            No, I don’t fear your opinion, I did not call you a “traitor”, un-Chinese and other nonsense. I called you narrow-minded; that is not an insult but the truth of what you are. But he calls Mr. Chan a “traitor” because Mr. Chan has benefited from the very rights he now wants to deny others; haven’t you read the comments that almost universally condemn Mr. Chan? The rest of your post is nonsense, a poor attempt at ridicule.

            Again, why don’t you read Chinese language newspapers and periodicals from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and Malaysia (例如星洲報﹐聯合報﹐中國時報﹐一週刊﹐亞洲週刊﹐等) to understand how attitudes like yours are seen by Chinese who do not live in mainland China? They even have simplified Chinese versions for you. Why can’t you tolerate differing opinion? And why do you think your narrow-minded self is an example of Chinese patriotism?

          • manofearth

            yeah just go on insulting ppl and not stand to it – assuming ur own lack of education and knowledge – i cant help u nore vincent – live happily in ur own lil world of good and bad – just stick to it ; )

          • vincent

            I didn’t ask for your help , I’m plenty happy in my own little world and I intend to stick to it :-D

          • manofearth

            suits u best ; )

          • http://www.facebook.com/gordon.gogodancer Gordon Gogodancer

            interesting how you mention living in your own little world…

          • manofearth

            sounds familiar to you – i know…

          • vincent

            Why does he label Mr. Chan a traitor? Why don’t you read the comments of the Chinese Netizens, they don’t favor Jackie Chan either, you are only a minority that doesn’t know any better, that could be attributed to a lack of education or perhaps a narrow-minded view of the world.

      • beijingrrrrrrr

        am hong kong born and raised. and i want a wall built around my country to keep you corrupt savages out. we’re not the same people, we’re the same as germans and french are – different blood, different culture, different history. and i dont want you writing our children’s history books, polluting our air, bringing your corrupt money to our country, and hurting my civil rights. get out! and take jacky teh traitor with you.

        • manofearth

          fucking traitor – hk aint no country u fool…. stay in ur lala-wonderland u fucking dog… ppl like u wont understand otherwise

          • dave

            HK ain’t China, either. They don’t think so, the world doesn’t think so.

          • Jensen

            The fact that hk use and speak Cantonese is the territory belongs to china. If you don’t like china, go ahead invent your own language!

          • SonofSpermcube

            Welp, guess the entire English-speaking world belongs to England.

          • Dr Sun

            It did once

          • movie goer

            you mean like the world thinks that america and britain are liberating iraq?

          • Jensen

            I agree with you that he is a traitor. He said that hk and china is like German and French? What a moron! Doesn’t he know that hk ppl migrated from guang dong province of china? Where does the Chinese character 漢字 that is being taught in hk school come from?

          • manofearth

            he is a fucking racist to his own kind – mentally sick lil bastard – guess a highschool brick like these locust-singin-hk-kids a while ago.

            if such one dared sing that song in front of me – i would have smacked his stupid face- how dare these lil racist to be allowed in public!

          • beijingrr

            its sad that you don’t realize that your heads are warped by controlled press, controlled education, and the same communist government that gunned down young students in tiananmen square. your heads are so full of nationalism, its sickening. hong kong and the south have been culturally and linguistically separate from the north for a long time. do italians from rome claim that europe is theirs? no. and mainland chinese reading fairly tales about kingdoms of the past shouldn’t claim that taiwan, hong kong, tibet, xinjiang, and other places are the property of beijing. wake up! this isn’t fuedal china, we are in modern times. drop your nationalism, your aggression, and get out of my country! hong kong doesn’t want you – leave us alone!

          • manofearth

            the only sad thing are ppl like u – and everybody knows it – aint that a bitch lil boy…

          • manofearthsuxdix

            oohh… manofearth learned bad boy slang! you go boy! now you’re really gansta! communist gansta! so bad! wow.. it would be cool if hu jintao were break dancing next to you with mao zedong on the turntables while you rap this bad ass e-language! online chinese communist gansta!

          • BiffyClanger

            This made me snigger.

          • Alphy

            This argument is silly. Nationalism is not an excuse to limit other’s freedom like Jacky is proposing, nor is independence of HK a realistic thing that any politician is proposing. Though I would have to say, China’s current policy of allowing autonomy in HK is the right thing, as it is that rule of law and freedom that HK people cherish that makes it one of the best place to do business in the world.

            True patriotism is not about keeping the status quo blindly, but about how to make one’s country a better place.

          • Jace

            This is just stupid, I don’t understand why you guys are even arguing about this. Let’s go from the beginning, the people of HK is Chinese. They’ve always been chinese even under the control of the british people. But if you consider yourself non-chinese, you go ahead and do that, that is not being a betraying anyone, it is your own choice. In the end we are all human beings, we all live on the same earth, it is simply idiotic to argue about stuff like this. Just stop, the only think we can do is crticize and critcizing is just an opinion, not a fact. We should all put this in mind.

          • movie goer

            is that what you call it? autonomy? how exactly is being complicit to western multinational corporations autonomy? want to see autonomy, look at what gadafi did in Libya, that was real autonomy. Sadam Husein wanting to abandon the dollar, thats autonomy. north korea building nukes! thats autonomy!!! but guess what? the west hates autonomy, thats why they merked both of those guys, and are trying to starve the north koreans to death with sanctions

          • movie goer

            hk aint free man. you cant even spit, or litter. eat in the subway, and you might get beat up for it. dont matter if youre a kid or senior. you are fair game to the hk pitbulls. hk is fascist. thats the only way i can describe it. you want to see freedom, you better off going elsewhere, cause you aint gonna find it in hk.

          • Alphy

            I hope you are being sarcastic… who want people to spit, litter or piss at public space? HK does have protection against abuse of police power, which in countries that you quoted in another post like NK certainly don’t.

          • movie goer

            i agree that hongers and mainlanders are very different. however, the common misperception is that the hongers are the good guys, because they are complicit to their gwailo masters. however, people got things backwards, mainlanders were the good guys, and still are to some degree. i cant say what will happen in another 10 years. everythings gone down hill since 1978. i do look at these hongers and sometimes wonder if they are Chinese. they do not have the benevolence, and tolerance that the Chinese have. they have the same kinds of hatred, and reactionary ideas as westerners. the problem is, they look to the west as a role model, and it seems like the west is only teaching them bad things. i get that hongers were screwed up to begin with, because the majority of them were ex landlords in the mainland who got booted out, but still, i think that western style education really screwed them up big time. the funny thing is, a lot of these idiots, both mainlanders and hongers, actually want to pay for a western style education. man, thats like buying the bullet that someone will shoot you with.

          • movie goer

            whats with western shills coming on here pretending to be Chinese?

        • BiffyClanger

          Lol is building walls to keep foreign ‘savages’ out a Chinese tradition? Amazing this time to keep their own fellow country man out :). Different culture different history? What stuff are you smoking? Last time I checked HK’s economy was doing quite alright thanks for their big brother up north. You do know that even through the worst famine that wiped out 10s of millions during the Great Leap Forward China kept trains full of fresh livestock and rice and fed your ungrateful ass?? Do you want to explain to those who lost someone they know because of the sacrifice China made to keep HK fed?

          • linette lee

            …………….even through the worst famine that wiped out 10s of millions during the Great Leap Forward China kept trains full of fresh livestock and rice and fed your ungrateful ass?…………

            It’s called BUSINESS. HK buys and China sells. Stop your bullshxtting about China giving charity donations to Hk. Since when did the China gov’t and their officials give out anything free??? Are you really that dumb?

            Why don’t you go live in the China rural areas?

            I love how these China chinese keep telling me how great china gov’t is but if they are given a chance to give up their china citizenships to acquire USA or UK or HK Id, they will do it in a heart beat.

            Hk people don’t give up their HK id. They keep both US and HK citizenships.

          • beijingR

            what you need to get through your head, is that in modern times, you can’t go to territories, tell them that way back in history you once governed the area, and now you want to govern it again. italy can’t do it to the rest of europe. spain can’t do it to latin america. mongolia can’t do it to china. china can’t do it to taiwan, hong kong, tibet, and xinjiang. get out of your head that having some historic linkage a long time ago now means you are our ruler. in modern times, some amount of history doesn’t give you the right to push your policies on us. get out and stay out.

          • BiffyClanger

            Yeah because the rest of Europe are full of Italians, Latin America adjacent to Spain. You amuse me :). You apparently have no idea of what happened to HK? HK was lost to China because of British colonialism which ‘borrowed’ HK for 100 years. 1997 was the year that it expired, get it? You must be seriously idiotic to make comparisons with Spain and Latin America.

            Taiwan for the longest time was competing to claim the legitimate government for the whole of China. As far as I know the same party went back into power.

            Only Tibet who wasn’t under direct rule of China, with distinctive culture and language (but was under nominal Chinese rule) has any reasonably legitimate claim to independence.

          • Gaius Baltar

            Hong Kong Island and Kowloon were actually ceded in “perpetuity” much like some areas the Russians still hold north of dong bei to this day. Britain returned the whole territory rather just maintain a island and strip of land dependent on China, AND finished the airport to guarantee HK’s future as a economic centre and transport hub, as well as insisting on the 50 year continuation of the same capitalist system. Whether the chinese actually sugarcoated the deal, I guess we will never know for certain.

          • Gaius Baltar

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration
            Sorry my mistake, seems only the island was in perpetuity. the 99 year lease was on the new territories.

          • BiffyClanger

            Yes you are right my bad. Still the British decide to cede the Island back like a hot potato, now who am I to disagree? The tragedy is there was no democratic process involved in all of this. The fact that HK people are whining like if they had democracy under the British is just unpalatable and disgusting.

          • BiffyClanger

            Apparently Russia just did exactly that, what are the chances.

        • movie goer

          if hong kong kept corrupt money out of their city, their entire finance industry would be gone. where would the western terrorists launder their blood money? dubai again? singapore?

        • takasar1

          so blind, deluded and naive, i cant even…

    • BiffyClanger

      You know last time I check, HK under UK wasn’t a democracy. As far as Charter House

      • Gaius Baltar

        True it wasn’t. But which is the lesser of two evils? Laissez faire hands off capitalist 1 man government or communism? Hmmmmm, tis a tough 1, but personally I’d rather live under the former.

        • BiffyClanger

          Gaius well
          1. China isn’t Communist, there are many moniker to describe what China is and State Capitalism is the one I find most fitting. I might call myself the Queen Mother but that doesn’t make it true now does it?
          2. HK is under this thing called 1 party 2 systems.
          3. The people who are protesting are mostly those who have lost the election and against Chinese tourism. Both are rather unpalatable reasons to be out in the streets no?

        • BiffyClanger

          China = Communism
          have you been living under a rock for the last 40 years????

    • movie goer

      they also have a right to protest against the west for turning their city into a dump, and thats what hk is, it’s a dump, thanks to the british. however, i never seem to hear anyone protest against the british. maybe because all the protestors are on the payroll of their gwailo masters. come to think of it, i never really heard about any protests pre-97, maybe cause all the protestors had their knees broken by british cops

  • vincent

    Jackie Chan’s next movie : I am Wumao

    • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

      Penultimate to last movie: starring as Jimmy “Popeye” Doyle in the remake of “The Fenqing Connection”

    • curl of the burl

      Sequel to “Who am I?”
      :p

      • vincent

        haha YES!

  • Duke

    Never really cared for his movies much. Too many shots of him making stupid looking faces. Now he is trying to be political? What a joke! People in HK protest because people in HK haven’t been subjected to the mind numbing, copycat producing education of the mainland, where being an individual and having different ideas from everyone else is taboo. I’m sure if you ask people from HK why they do what they do they would be able to give you valid reasons for their actions. Here on the mainland if you ask enough questions you will always get the same answer “no why, just do”. How can a country full of followers ever be a “leader”? Never going to happen. Not in our lifetime.

    • rollin wit 9’s

      valid point @ Duke
      Once the right to demonstrate and protest is taken away, citizens become nothing more than a tool at the hands of their governments. I think CHN netizens take Jackie’s comments to seriously and dont understand the base and foundation for HKers rebellious protests. If HKers aren’t contumacious in there efforts to expel Mainland rule, they will be nothing more than another province and will end up being destroyed and rebuilt (and re-educated) like those up in Lhasa I believe it is in Tibet.

    • ASDF

      By supporting the CCP, Jackie Chan is protesting against the views of other Hongkongers. What he did was shove into people’s faces something they didn’t want to hear. He is swarmed by criticism exactly because his idea is different. Followers are enslaved by public sentiment. Followers are impossible to criticize because they’re afraid to be politically controversial, they’re afraid to form opinions, they’re forever trying to fit in, and trying to be “cool”. Jackie is sacrificing his reputation to express a widely unpopular idea. This is a bold act of defiance, not a cowardly act of compliance.

      • linette lee

        Jacky Chan is a big disappointment for the hong kong people. Every time he opens his mouth he insult the hong kong people. What is he thinking? Has him been dealing with the cpp people for so long time that he forgot his Hk root? Has him been brainwashed by the communist party? If he thinks the cpp is so great better than the hk gov’t, I suggest him to give up his Hk ID and move himself to china and get his china citizenship and stay there.

        陳港生, 你不愛香港,去中國吧!

        • ASDF

          The “hong kong people” are a big disappointment for all Chinese people. Every time they open their mouth they insult the Chinese people. What are they thinking? Have they been dealing with the British people for so long that they forgot their Chinese roots? Have they been brainwashed by the British gov’t? If they think the British gov’t is so great better than the CCP, I suggest them to move themselves to Britain and get their British citizenship and stay there.

          香港市民,你们不爱中国,去英国吧!

          • linette lee

            You bullshxting. Tell me you don’t want china gov’t to reform and follow Hk gov’t system.

          • ASDF

            I do want the CCP to reform, i want them to reduce corruption and poverty, But no i do not want the Chinese central government to hold democratic elections. Ever.

          • elizabeth

            But democratic elections are what keep corruption and cronyism at bay.

          • ASDF

            Yeah just like in Russia India and the Philippines.

          • vincent

            Oh wow you picked three countries where it is still a work in progress, congratulations.

          • ASDF

            China is work in progress as well. My point is that democracy does not lead to faster development. The wealthiest most powerful states of the world happen to be democratic. That does not mean their wealth is the result of democracy.

          • vincent

            Well that’s something we both agree on, no political system is perfect, but as long as the needs and wants of the people are being listened to and acted upon the system works.

          • elizabeth

            So a communist system works better than democracy in reducing corruption? Or is corruption fine as long as you can get rich fast while your country men are left behind?

          • ASDF

            name a single country which has both high per capita income and rampant corruption.

          • wacky

            according to the CPI political system is rather irrelevant.
            are you saying get rich = corruption? some people can still get rich faster while other stays poor regardless of corruption, even in america the top 1% are richer than the rest so are you saying that all of them are corrupt?

          • elizabeth

            No, by no means have I said rich = corruption.

          • ASDF

            If you fairly compare China with other developing countries. Yes. it does work better. Why should that be surprising?

          • elizabeth

            But China is aspiring to be a developed country, yes? Then, developed countries (with successful democracies) should be the benchmark.

          • ASDF

            Yeah China plans to be a developed country after at least another 50 years. That’s still a long way off…..

            Even so, China will become developed without resorting to democratic elections.

          • elizabeth

            …but with many more beggars on the streets?

          • ASDF

            ……without beggars or elections. Simultaneously.

          • elizabeth

            Only time will tell then. 50 years later…

          • BiffyClanger

            I can see why this is hard for you to understand. Let me explain this in simple terms for you (as much as I can). China for the last 30 years has been leading a very UNEVEN state lead developmental onslaught. Led by coastal Special Economic Zones that left a huge cleavage in the country GDP per capita east vs west, costal vs inland and cities vs rural. Gotta always keep in mind how big the country is btw. What you see in the media with 10% GDP growth actually means something like 20-50% GDP growth for Metropolitan cores like Beijing and Shanghai and the Pearl River Delta and as low as 0% to negative growth in many rural backyards. This same rise in GDP is took the UK 200 years to achieve.

            At the backbone this GDP growth is Urbanisation and industrialisation Same for Europe and same of the US. If you have any idea of history of those periods than you will know it is not exactly all pretty, cities like London and Paris are described as ‘human cesspools’. Don’t believe me? Just read any historical fiction in urban setting around that time, Dickens is always to good place to start, if that is too taxing for you then watch the Elephant Man by David Lynch where freak-shows were the order of the day.

            Part of the bargain of this economic miracles was that the socialist restriction on movement of people (Hukou system) had to be lifted, you know, for the cheap labour. This means all 800million (at the time) peasants are on a gold rush to Cities making their Chinese Dream any way they can. Hence, disproportionally high number of tragic cases begging on the streets of these cities. Where as in Europe with 200year window the village freak became circus freak before finally institutionalised and hidden under the carpet.

            Remember by growing GDP the rate China had you essentially mash up 19th Century Dickensian urban nightmare against 20th century utopian urban dream in the space of 30years. Having so many beggars in Chinese streets is NOT a contradiction in China, it is only if you insists on a Western mindset. Always look beyond appearances and never jump to conclusions, otherwise they will mislead you about China.

          • elizabeth

            As far as I know, the Hukou system is still in place and it is this system that deprives the less privileged an equal chance in life as those fortunate to be born in the rich cities.

          • BiffyClanger

            Yes that is true to a certain extent but it has been under reform for the last 10years. Most cities now have Hukou transfers if you can afford a property etc. Hukou system is also the reason China doesn’t have large area of their cities covered in slums as the case with Brazil and India. It drives people to urbanise their own villages.

          • elizabeth

            Ten years (and still counting) is a long time for someone whose future hinges on equal opportunity in education, employment, healthcare etc. In theory, it is possible to apply for transfers, but in reality, it is still practically impossible for those at the bottom. How many among can afford property?

            The Hukou system has its merits, no doubt and it all works well theoretically for government aid to urbanize the villages. In fact, I think it would be better to retain the system and channel more resources to develop the rural areas. And I do not doubt the government is trying to do that. But it is the execution of plans that is the big question mark that the government does not seem to be addressing.

            Yes, it is reasonable to give it another few decades before ‘utopia’ emerges. If only there is a way to reduce the suffering and inhuman exploitation of the needy and helpless citizens.

          • BiffyClanger

            I get the feeling that everyone I speak to thinks the current situation is ‘transitional’ and nobody really expects it to last, it is just they differ on whether they think it will get better or worse.

          • BiffyClanger

            Well China is 53% urbanised by most indicators, thats the equivalent of 1880s UK and 1920 US. Patience young one.

          • BiffyClanger

            Hokou system is under reform as far as I understand and many local government have their own way to getting around the Hukou residence system such as purchase of property and investment.

          • BiffyClanger

            I may disagree with you on if China needs elections but I am not going to dispute that at the current rate it might get to wear the developed badge without elections yes.

          • BiffyClanger

            Keyword being ‘aspiring’? Hence not there yet, so no, not fair to compare with developed country, simple logic no? Do you compare say an aspiring writer’s words up to Shakespeare? Now that would be silly.

          • elizabeth

            I have never come across someone who, say, aspires to be a scholar but uses below par benchmarks to measure achievement.

            I’d like to be as well-read as you and I will do so by reading Pokemon comics.

          • BiffyClanger

            Exactly. In this case the benchmark says China isn’t developed.

          • elizabeth

            I beg to differ. I would say it is selectively very well developed, like a scholar who is academically stellar but with little clue as to how the real world works.

          • BiffyClanger

            Yes exactly keyword being selectively which in China’s case is relatively small proportion of the population.

          • BiffyClanger

            Agree or its a 1st 2nd 3rd world rolled into one.

          • BiffyClanger

            Thats why the bench marks are different for different age group duh. Clearly reading comics is what you have been doing.

          • BigCAD

            Haven’t they had 5000 years to iron out their shortcomings?

          • elizabeth

            Are their elections really ‘democratic’ in the first place?

          • ASDF

            Are they not?

          • elizabeth

            Are you that naive?

          • ASDF

            Why are they not? How they are not? Please enlighten me

          • elizabeth

            Google is your friend.

          • ASDF

            [insert absurd unsupported argument here]
            Don’t argue back. Google is your friend.

          • elizabeth

            I wasn’t arguing. You asked to be enlightened. Google is your best source of information for enlightenment :)

          • ASDF

            I google it. They are legitimate democratic elections :D

          • elizabeth

            If you say so, if you choose to see what you want to see and not to see what you don’t want to, like the crippled beggars lying on the streets of your beautiful cities with fast approaching ‘high per capita income’, like the pitiful kids snatched from their villages, with eyes gorged out and crippled youths begging in your super efficient subways; like the countless homeless old folks badgering tourists for money along your busy shopping streets lined with Gucci, Prada or what not.

            If you say so.

            Beijing and Shanghai may be on par with other Asian cities in terms of luxury and material achievements, but I can find no other such cities with so many needy people on their streets and subways.

          • manofearth

            well – hope ur eyes are also wide opended when u see other countries subways(if having one)…

          • elizabeth

            I have no reason to be prejudiced against China.

          • manofearth

            well- would wonder if you would have… like… “but I can find no other such cities with so many needy people on their streets and subways”… i can tell you many cities n countries…
            so maybe u try commenting without prejudice nxt time? ; )

          • elizabeth

            In Asia?

          • ASDF

            Yeah but once those crippled beggars are allowed to vote, they’ll be rich. right?

          • elizabeth

            They’ll be able to vote for a government who ensures that they are not begging in the streets at least?

          • ASDF

            What makes you think democracy work in China when it has failed to produce results in other poor developing countries? What is it about China that’s so special? I dont get it….

          • elizabeth

            Because democracy (not the ones with rigged elections) worked in my country. I am happy that China has progressed and many have been lifted up the economic ladder. But I feel that more can be done for the ones at the bottom and it is not that the government is not trying but that efforts are stymied by corruption at the grassroots.

            If people are allowed to vote, those given to corruption will think twice because if people don’t get what they need, they will be voted out. However, the current system of voting within the party does not allow citizens to do that. Chances are, corruption will continue unchallenged because errant officials at not at the mercy of the voters.

            A good government should not fear being voted out of power. They should have faith in the wisdom of the people, well, the majority at least.

          • ASDF

            How do you know those elections are rigged? How do you know the elections in your country isn’t rigged? Where do you get the evidence? it seems people just make these assumptions based on how much money their people have. “Oh look we are not poor our elections must be fair, but those people over there are really poor their elections must be rigged”. Once again the judgements are made based on material well being and nothing else

          • elizabeth

            When you have presidents being accused of rigging and they do not counter with defamation suits? When there are repeated attempts at impeaching the president and allegations of electoral fraud and cover?

            No doubt these are inconclusive but a perfectly clean elected president should and will dare to take antagonists, of the Hello Garci Scandal for instance, to task in court.

          • ASDF

            It doesn’t really matter, the indecisiveness of any legitimate multi-party government still fails to pass power onto the people, it only passes power to a few influential corporate leaders and bankers. These wealthy elites have enough money and authority to alter the politician’s actions as well as the people’s voting choices to serve their self interests. The political figurehead of a democratic country is merely a puppet used for distracting public attention away from their true dictators.

          • elizabeth

            At least the people have a choice of leaders, not have them shoved into their throats. At least then the government can silence the complainers with a majority ‘mandate’, at least the people can still look forward to another round of elections to get things right.

          • ASDF

            The people have a choice of figureheads who do nothing but talk and entertain. Similar to american-indian Chiefs who are not leaders, but only representatives for their tribe whose only job is to sign unfair land treaties which they know nothing about. The decision making isn’t done by these elected puppets at all.

          • elizabeth

            Bottomline is, how many poor and needy, beggars and deprive children do you see in other similar Asian cities with democracy compared to China?

          • ASDF

            You mean something like New Delhi compared to Beijing? I would say New Delhi has more beggars.

          • elizabeth

            I mean like in Japan, South Korea and Singapore.

            India has a terribly lop-sided caste system that renders ‘democracy’ a laughing stock.

          • ASDF

            Japan, South Korea and Singapore are developed countries. The fact that they have elections is irrelevant.

          • vincent

            I agree the ‘democratic’ system in India is a friggin joke, everyone is split by religion, caste and any other reason they can find, but from what I read there are reforms taking place here’s a link in case you’re interested http://dawn.com/2012/12/14/world-bank-chief-economist-hails-india-reforms/

          • elizabeth

            Thanks.

            That’s good for them. Hopefully those steps to reform weren’t made only to appease the electorate before the 2014 elections.

          • vincent

            Haha Agreed!

          • wacky

            so if democracy is not working in the case of those more corrupt democratic countries than china they should change their politcal system as well???

            your 2nd paragraph is good in theory but useless in practice, if you look at philippines for example after decades of democratization the politicans are the very same clan it used to be in fact philippines was in the 60s and 70s the second best economy in asia after japan where is it now after democratization ?

          • elizabeth

            I honestly am skeptical at their brand of ‘democracy’.

            Why won’t you look at countries that have done better with democracy instead of the questionable ones?

            Because you refuse to acknowledge that democracy can be a better alternative to communism?

          • wacky

            why dont you look at the countries where democracy does not work instead of the western countries? the fact is many of the western countries were not democratic back then when they were growing, so were korea, taiwan and HK, political system is irrelevant according to PCI index

            show me why is it a better alternative the index does not shown that
            look at indonesia and philippines both were under authoritarian government and now under democratic one and both are worse than china according to the index.
            are you refusing to acknowledge that democracy is not the only way to go?

          • elizabeth

            Indonesia and the Philippines are convenient choices. Why not Japan, Seoul, Singapore or Taiwan or Hong Kong? Opps, the last 2 may not count.

          • wacky

            japan was under LDP for 50 years

            korea was developing under dictatorship as well

            so was taiwan.

            singapore is still under lee kwan yew family

            HK was never a democracy

            your options of these countries are more convenient ignoring the fact that democracy all over asia so far has been failed to deliver the campaign promises they made. indonesia, philippines india, bangladesh pakistan papuna new guninea, mongolia, even malysia is still counted as pretty corrupt. i can name more if you want

          • elizabeth

            Campaign promises or not(that’s moot actually because, *cough* democracy or communist or monarchy it’s the same with promises.

            At least I don’t see such stark contrast of rich and poor compared to in China. I’d rather be a citizen of South Korea, Japan or Singapore than be a subject in China.

          • ASDF

            Translation: you would rather be living in a developed country rather than a developing one.

          • elizabeth

            Translation: You are postulating that China will be a developed country with no beggars on the streets…under communism…that hasn’t rid her streets of poverty-stricken individuals yet. I will not take the risk that China can achieve that in 50 years when I can live in tried and tested successful democracies.

          • ASDF

            If China becomes democratic now it will just be a shitty crappy one like the one in india. That’s why i’m always comparing china to india and not japan. Because Even if China becomes democratic tomorrow it will still be a developing country. Thus China will become like india. A DEVELOPING democratic country. not a DEVELOPED one like japan. And so far the current DEVELOPING communist china is “tried and tested” to be far more effective than the DEVELOPING democratic india. When China develops economically, then we’ll consider democratic reforms, maybe… but by then i dont think it would be necessary anyway.

          • Jennster

            Exactly how do we compare to current USA korea and Japan exactly? Where are the rest of their rural populations to follow because there aren’t in the scope of India and china?

          • Jennster

            But it is the current govt with the Chinese migrants that developed our cities that arguably by some are better than the west. Why change the system that made it? They can use similar model to develop the inland but difficult due to land formation

          • elizabeth

            The system’s good because you aren’t one of the migrants.

          • vincent

            What Elizabeth said is true and on top of it all, migrants are treated like second class citizens as well as being conned out of their wages, that’s bullshit especially when it’s their blood and sweat that allows for the development you talk about.

          • Jennster

            Moreover the beggars that abuse foreingers isnt the city”s problem. It’s because of most foreingers are there so the poorest of the Chinese move around in huge numbers follow where they go.

          • elizabeth

            The same would apply to other cities with foreigners too.

          • wacky

            therefore it is not difference between democracy and communism, but in democracy politician are elected partly based on their campaign promise, saying lie during the campaign can get you elected.

            comparing a developing country with very large population to a developed countries with small population is your last resort, isnt it?

            i have shown you more failed democracy and the fact that those countries you mentioned above which all were developing under dictatorship before they accept democracy, so democracy does not give prosperity, democracy only come after prosperity and claims what was achieved by dictatorship

          • vincent

            Developing under dictatorship? Please elaborate.

          • wacky

            taiwan and korea was not a democracy back then they only got democracy after that.
            park chung hee who was a dictator and under him korea had their economic reform
            japan was was industrialized before democracy.

          • vincent

            Interesting fact about Korea, but who were the dictators in Japan and Singapore, you mentioned they all developed under dictators. So can you elaborate about the other two countries?

          • wacky

            japan did not have democracy before ww2 dont you know that?? japan started westernization and modernization back in 19 th century after meiji restoration, that was why they had better weapon than any of asian neighbors back then.
            singapore has always been under lee family and one party rule since its partition from malaysia. of course singapore is different than the other countries if you watched channel news asia you will know that they give credit mainly to the rule of law not democracy and human right, the rule of law in singapore is stringent recently chinese bus drivers were deported after illegal strike

          • elizabeth

            The government of Singapore is democratically elected and recent developments there have shown that the voter has the power to influence government decisions.

          • wacky

            true but what i said is that lee family has been in power for as long as there is singapore, singapore is a good example of good governance and china too learn from singapore but its a small city state with about 5 millions people cant be taken as example for asia as a whole. and if you watch channel news asia you will know that they mostly give credit to the rule of law, if you watched their discussion about china, india or asia, all the panelist like tomy koh or kishore mahbubani continuously imply that the the problem of corruption is related to rule of law and they dont believe that democracy is a panacea for every problem in asia

          • elizabeth

            And it is rule of law in China?

          • wacky

            there is rule of law but it is not as strong as in singapore but there is, that is why you got that official in that sex video sacked. are you staying that china a country that grow by 8 point a year is a failed lawless state???

          • vincent

            haha you could say it was their lack of democracy that lead them to do asinine things in the first place, Japan has enjoyed wonderful growth after WW2 more so than before, I’ll wager democracy had something to do with it.
            The voters in Singapore do have the power to decide who comes to power, just because they decide wrongly at times they can’t be blamed, anyway since the current party PAP is allowing so many Mainlanders into Singapore I wonder how they will fare in the next election.

          • wacky

            japan has enjoyed many success things after ww2 partly because they got the money from america and that is why they had to embrace democracy. i credit that to stability due to the fact that LDP kept their power for 50 years.

            voters in singapore do have power what i said is from what i ve learned from singapore tv they mostly credited that to the rule of law not democracy or anything else in fact from any discussion i have watched most of the expert deny the western way of thinking that democracy is a panacea for china

          • vincent

            Well to each his own, only the future will tell right? Experts have been know to be wrong too :)

          • wacky

            well, im not and expert just saying what i watched and what i know

          • vincent

            Uhh yeah I was referring to those experts not you hehe

          • ScottLoar

            No, Singapore is not “rule of law”. Rule of law means laws are preeminent and all, every one and every party, must submit to the same laws and principles those laws affirm. Singapore is “rule by law”; laws are passed to convenience the ruling party which uses those laws to govern the country, just like China and other authoritarian regimes.

          • wacky

            rule of law of rule by law or whatever you call it the key is LAW everybody shoud be subject to law i would like to see that in happen all over asia, of course it is more difficult considering that singapore is just a small country with small population comare to the rest or asia.

          • ScottLoar

            “rule of law of rule by law or whatever you call it the key is LAW
            everybody shoud be subject to law i would like to see that in happen all over asia”.

            Why can’t you understand? I have explained the difference of “rule by law” (以法治國) and “rule of law” (依法治國). You want rule of law but are too lazy or dumb to understand the difference. Someone can say “we are a country of laws” (法治國家) and you stupidly think that’s a good result, that all countries of law are the same.

            China is 以法治國 – rule by laws that the party decides upon: Can you understand why this is not what you wanted, that everybody is not subject to the law? Why can you not think on this subject and appreciate the difference?

          • wacky

            i am not interested in engaging with you in a semantic debate about the LAW, my point is many of the problems in china and developing countries in general are due to the fact that the rule of law or rule by law or whatever you call it is not upheld therefore the problem of corruption (which my initial post is about ) is a legal problem not a political problem (democracy and human rights etc) like some of the comments here like to suggest.

          • ScottLoar

            It is not semantics. You have failed to understand the difference of “rule by law” and “rule of law” in English and Chinese, both illustrated with examples. You cannot understand because you have not thought deeply about this, but insist on the word LAW.

          • wacky

            let me tell you something if you dont get what i mean from the beginning i am commenting based on what i watch, heard and search, if you dont see my comment to vincet above let me re-post is here
            “from what i ve learned from singapore tv they mostly credited that to
            the rule of law not democracy or anything else in fact from any
            discussion i have watched most of the expert deny the western way of thinking that democracy is a panacea for china”

            but if you insisting to use the term rule by law then go ahead, but this is also from kishore mahbubani a singaporean and one of the panelist and expert on that discussion

            http://mahbubani.net/book3.html

            Asians have finally
            understood, absorbed, and implemented Western
            best practices in many areas: from free-market
            economics to modern science and technology, from
            meritocracy to RULE OF LAW They have also
            become innovative in their own way, creating new
            patterns of cooperation not seen in the West.

          • wacky

            more on democracy and rule of law

            Rule of law offers foundation for longterm
            democratic hopes
            Global Times | Kishore Mahbubani
            Published on October 14, 2012 20:45
            http://www.mahbubani.net/articles%20by%20dean/Rule%20of%20law%20offers%20foundation%20for%20long-term%20democratic%20hopes%20_%20Global%20Times.pdf

          • ScottLoar

            Singapore exercises rule by law and so any protest, gathering, voice against the governing authorities is pursued by legalities, suits and charges. Government critics have been bankrupted by court actions against them, because the state exercises laws against its opponents and critics. This is not possible in a state where everyone including the governing authorities are held to Law; this is called Rule of Law. Singapore spokesmen well understand the difference and proclaim theirs is Rule of Law when it is clearly not.

            You still don’t know the difference do you? You still think the only difference is the prepositions “of” and “by” – no big deal, huh?

          • wacky

            by saying that are you saying that the government of singapore is not held to the law and the main function of the law in singapore is mainly to silent the oppostion? or is the government of singapore is held to the same law? there has been many cases where government officials get sacked as well.

          • wacky

            my concern is about the effectiveness of the law in combating corruption in the government, not political thing like silencing the opposition, i my self is not a fans of western style democracy with opposition.

          • ScottLoar

            Yes, your concern is corruption. You are sure that by strict law corruption in the CCP will lessen or disappear. You don’t understand that the very source of the corruption is the CCP’s single-party rule that answers to no other authority than itself. And so most Chinese must rely on the “moral goodness” of Party men who have spent a lifetime gaining high position in the Party. When a problem – corruption, melamine in milk, counterfeiting, abuse of privilege by officials, substandard buildings – is revealed by the news or persons on-line there is no authority independent of the Party to check and see how the problem is treated, nor is there any legal recourse to force the Party or its agents to act.

            Do you understand? There is no legal recourse, there is no system to force the Party or its agent to act, because they are not responsible to any law but that they themselves created, administer and interpret.

          • wacky

            yes i am sure of that, that is why my example of rule of law which china should follow is singapore, just like you’ve said before singapore is not a good example of democracy, i too dont believe that singapore is a perfect democracy but singapore is among the least corrupt in the world.

          • ScottLoar

            Yes, I know your narrow concern is corruption, but you still cannot understand the source of Chinese government corruption cannot be addressed, cannot change, and will continue.

            Singapore government salaries are among the highest in the world (much, much higher than the US), a direct means to inhibit corruption. But, the Lee family holds the government. Let’s see what happens in Singapore’s future.

          • wacky

            it can by strengthen the law, that is why i said singapore model is the one to follow by china, since you and i agree singapore is not a model for democracy so is china. and china is learning from singapore

            the immigration policy in singapore should be changed according to the local concern but also the need to address the declining number of singaporean i am myself is not at all a big fan of free immigration or easy citizenship.

          • ScottLoar

            The ruling party in Singapore, the People’s Action Party (PAP, which membership is not open to public record), disciplines its members just like any party; the CCP does the same, look to the most recent example of Bo Xilai.

            I wrote before and repeat, “Singapore is ‘rule by law'; laws are passed to convenience the ruling party which uses those laws to govern the country, just like China and other authoritarian regimes.” The PAP uses law to rule the country which includes governing the citizens and silencing opposition to ensure the rule of the PAP.

          • wacky

            but by doing that also means that most of the government officials who violate the law and were arrested were the member of PAP, means that the member of PAP themselves are subjected to the law means that there is a rule of law

          • elizabeth

            Whoever claimed democracy enables a country to prosper? Capitalism does. The prosperity you enjoy means nothing to the beggars and migrants if it does not change their circumstances.

          • wacky

            who claim? western media does “democracy is the only way for capitalism to grow” this is one of the most common claim i find.
            true but that is the problem of economy not democracy

          • elizabeth

            You have lots of faith and trust in media propaganda.

          • wacky

            what propaganda western one?? absolutely no

          • elizabeth

            But you have faith in indexes touted by western media if they are favorable to you.

          • wacky

            transparency international is not western media is an organization, how could it favor me??? china is in the middle table not the upper one

          • elizabeth

            Yes, there is a difference and it is the vote. The vote gives citizens rich or poor, young or old equal opportunity and ownership of their country. You take that away, the fate of many will depend on the discretion of a few. The implications are obvious.

            We started with discussion on how to address corruption but somehow, you are bent on emphasizing prosperity. If that is your priority, it is fruitless to discuss the matter further.

          • wacky

            the vote is the stupidest thing in your democracy, the fact is many of the people dont know about politic what they know is promisde by the politician so according to you the filipinos indian and nigerian dont vote?? of course they do yet the corruption is still sky rocketing.

          • Jennster

            Why compare with a smaller populated country like USA which is 4 times easier to manage? China compare to India due to similar population and social issues and concluded their system is worse so we don’t follow it. Common sense.

          • Jennster

            Because other Asian cities don’t have a population of 1.3 billion from their country moving around china. This is very simple logic

          • elizabeth

            You also happen to have a party with humongous membership and complex structure leading the country and 1.3 billion strong population to drive the economy, not forgetting resources from your mind boggling land mass…and comparatively ‘benign’ citizens to manage.

          • Jennster

            I personally believe they are 25 yrs into development as they officially started in 1990. It is only the beginning. Wait 30 more years

          • Jennster

            If u travelled throughout china tho beautiful many inland regions where many Chinese live have complex geological formations to develop easily

          • ASDF

            .

          • wacky

            according to corruption perception index 2012 china is ranked in the middle of the table

            http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

            the more corrupt countries are almost all democratic

            and what does corruption means to you? is lobbying a corrupt practice?? according to america NO its not but according to india YES it is

            http://rt.com/business/news/walmart-india-lobbing-probe-889/

          • elizabeth

            You said it – it’s only perception and that is subjective.

            I’d prefer to look at physical evidence, such as skyrocketing wealth limited to only a handful of individuals, the number of needy people loitering aimlessly outside spanking new shopping malls, old man rummaging the trash can next to a BMW park on the pedestrian path…the stark contrast between the rich and poor literally side by side…I really felt it here more than in other similar Asian cities I’ve been to. No offense.

            Where has all that aid money from the government gone to? It has to be corruption, right?

          • wacky

            it is widely accepted and widely used. unless you can bring any other index that show the otherwise your argument is the subjective one

            your physical evidence is way more subjective than the CPI, i too have been to many asian cities and there is no big difference

            no it is not, unless you can show me the statistic that show that. i show you the internationally accepted CPI you show me your own subjective argument

          • elizabeth

            You yourself have debated the subjectivity and unreliability of the CPI. It is based on context.

          • wacky

            all i do is show you the real index, and my argument is based on that index while you cant even provide any better measurement than that. are you trying to twist the debate to the problem of subjectivity???

            you said
            You yourself have debated the subjectivity and unreliability of the CPI.
            let me make it clear. CPI is widely accepted to measure how corrupt a country is, unless you have a better measurement you basically cant say anything other than your subjective observation.

          • elizabeth

            A widely accepted measure just because some random organization says so?

            You wrote: ‘and what does corruption means to you? is lobbying a corrupt practice??
            according to america NO its not but according to india YES it is’

            So how exactly does your widely accept measure deal with the disparity in perception of what is corrupt? What criteria is valid? Because they say so?

          • wacky

            by transparency international not just some random organization but a widely known organization. yes and it means in your democracy west even corruption can be legalized.

            yes because an widely known and acknowledged organization whose index are cited by every news organization i watch including western one

          • elizabeth

            It’s convenient to ride on the namesake of a ‘widely known’ organization without questioning the methods they use to derive their indexes. Every news organization has its own propaganda.

            Transparency through tinted glasses sure sounds cool.

            The more you write, the more you contradict yourself. Now even corruption can be legalized in the west and that is okay because it does not count as corruption anymore because the widely known organization measures corruption based on different criteria for different countries and that makes the whatever index a foolproof objective measure of corruption?

          • wacky

            then give me the better index you have, the western countries score better that is the propaganda???

            i dont think that transparency international look at lobbying in the us as corruption when measuring, there is no contradiction other than what is in your mind. then give me the other index from the other organizations you know other than your own subjective observation

          • elizabeth

            It is not possible to measure corruption equitably with indexes if you don’t realize by now, after highlighting all the discrepancies in ideology in different countries. Those are just tools for the media to manipulate perception.

            If you wish, I could count the number of times I have been approached by old people to donate money, the frequency in which I come across crippled beggars in the subway or the number of homeless bodies lying on your upmarket shopping streets in a month.

            Off the cuff, I can say it’s many times more compared to the democracy I came from. I have yet to see a defaced child being paraded among the crowds in my country to solicit donations.

          • wacky

            transparency international is widely known and widely used by many, i am not debating your personal experience, i give you the index, unless you can give me the other widely known and cited sources your argument remain subjective.
            there are problems in china and it is not unique to china it is the problem of every developing countries if you go to indonesia o philippines you will surely see the same thing, many of those people are most likely from the village and cant find job in the city, this urbanization phenomenon has been here for a long time, nothing to do with democracy

          • elizabeth

            You quote me an index from western media that you don’t trust and you expect me to accept that over my own observation?

            The problems of the poor have nothing to do with democracy because you are enjoying the prosperity that comes from their predicament which they can’t change because they are unable to vote.

          • DavidisDawei

            Sounds like you are describing the United states Elizabeth; the USA is becoming a third world country when defined as little to no middle class.
            In addition, If you look at the political system of the United States, you could make an argument that our system is inferior/broken at this point in time.
            I have to chuckle when political races pit one millionaire/billionaire against another and they spend $5 million of their own money for a job that pays $250K.

          • elizabeth

            That does not erase the fact that scores of beggars are roaming the streets here while others are enjoying the benefits of exploited migrant labor without a tinge of guilt or sympathy for them.

          • DavidisDawei

            Hi Wacky,

            I suspect every country has their version of “slave class” that does those jobs no one else wants to do and who are paid lowest possible wage. When I visit farms and/or factories in China, I think “slave class”.

            I have volunteered to assist the homeless in the USA for many years and almost all of them are mentally unstable or have a significant dependency on drugs.

            We may all be human, but we are all very diverse. Every society is going to have a percentage of the population that cannot swim and will drown without assistance. The Spartans would kill anyone who could not contribute to its society – is that what some countries will choose to do again?

            I personally believe that government should not be expected to try to resolve this. This is an issue for each local community.

            If that bothers you, then get off your arse and organize a group to help those people. Go to those people who exploit them and ask them for a donation of their time or their money.

            Where are you located? I will come and help you get started next time I’m in China.

          • elizabeth

            The beggars and migrants are not drug addicts. They do not deserve the same treatment as drug addicts.

            You have a great way to solve problems – kill the source of problems or pass the buck to others. Or send them to the mafias so they’ll disappear without you lifting a finger. It is good you aren’t my president or I’ll certainly migrate.

            Keep busy with your drug addicts, because I do not need to advertise what I am doing to help.

          • DavidisDawei

            Elizabeth
            Do you know how to read?
            What you wrote is not close to being accurate to what I wrote.

            What is your solution?
            Vote for people who promise to have the government solve all the problems?
            Put a dollar into the Salvation Army kettle and think to yourself “I’m such a good human being. I can’t wait to give a dollar next Christmas”

            Please Do Tell.

          • elizabeth

            Do you know why there are defaced children and crippled beggars in China in the first place? If you don’t, there is no point of having this conversation with you.

          • DavidisDawei

            China is a big country – haven’t seen it all, but have been to many places in China. I have seen quite a few adults (and occasionally children) begging, sometimes they will be crippled or disfigured.

            Chinese colleagues told me the children were kidnapped and then disfigured to gain sympathy and collect more money, which their captor would pocket.

            I was told many of the adults were self-mutilated because it earned more money than what they would be paid otherwise.

            I suspect some of these people were born this way or were injured in their lives and they cannot find any other way to raise money.

          • elizabeth

            And still you do not think it is serious enough to deserve a government’s attention? Would any civilian be able to help solve the problem simply by donating a few bucks now and then and erecting shelters, having pep talks with the poor villagers while there are still kidnaps, abuse, exploitation and self-mutilation out of desperation because the money meant to help them have been siphoned off elsewhere?

          • DavidisDawei

            Elizabeth,

            I have very little exposure with how the Chinese Government handles these issues. Please share what you know.

            Yes – I suppose we are talking apples and oranges. I have done a lot of volunteer work in the USA – None in China.

            I don’t want this to sound flippant, but the Chinese seem to accept these negative things as part of life,
            if it didn’t impact them, keep walking or stop and stare and take photos.

            Is it possible that these children were sold by their families?

            Is it possible that their government wants nothing to do with this issue?

            You are right – this is a serious/overwhelming issue to try to resolve because so many are trying to survive themselves.

            I’m not discounting the issue, but not sure I have an adequate response to your last question.

          • DavidisDawei

            Sorry….thought I was responding to the person positing as “wacky”, wasn’t calling you wacky

          • elizabeth

            Yes I know. It happens :)

          • vincent

            China is ranked in the middle of table, do you know why? That’s cause they have extremely tight controls on any and all information, do you really think they would be transparent about a subject as touchy as corruption.

          • wacky

            transparency international is not a chinese organization, yes there is control inside china but your western media seems to know everything better right? in fact it is not hard to find corruption news in western media and most of them have journalist inside china
            transparency international can get their source everywhere.
            i got lots of news about demonstration in china which some of them state that there are hundreds of thousands of demonstration in china every year related to corrupt practice and corrupt official, so it is not as extreme as you think

          • vincent

            Really? They don’t really make the news from what I’ve seen, the protests against Japan sure had great coverage, well I do think the western media knows better, even Liu Xiaobao’s wife wanted to give an interview to the Western media why do you think that is?

          • wacky

            they do, i cant verify that but this is one example

            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903703604576587070600504108.html

            there are 180000 protes ts in china last year, and western media seems to know that

            the other example

            http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/01/how-china-stays-stable-despite-500-protests-every-day/250940/
            500 protest everyday in china
            i dont know if they really know better, they seems to know better by that reports, that is why i said it is not

          • wacky

            as tight as many people think, yes it is for high profile cases but they cant control all cases

          • vincent

            That’s a lot of protests, I wonder why they would protest so much if they were happy with the current atmosphere in China, hmmm :D

          • wacky

            that is a lot of protest and most of the time they get what they want, i never say that they are happy, for what i know most people in most countries keep badmouthing their government and protesting all the time, in fact i have never seen any country where the people are happy with the government after 2 years of governing

          • dave

            the more corrupt countries are almost all democratic

            You moron, you read that table wrong. The lower the score, the MORE corrupt the country. Somalia, N. Korea, Afghanistan, etc.

            Democratic countries tend to be much LESS corrupt than non-democratic countries.

            But, really? Fine. Keep the one party rule.

            Can it install checks and balances so that it doesn’t have absolute power?

            Can it mature to a point where it accepts criticism, instead of constantly trying to silence critics?

            Can it be accountable to the people, where it serves them, instead of ruling over them?

            If so, then China will get some respect in the world community. If not, then there needs to be drastic changes.

          • wacky

            real moron like you cant even read the table, most of those countries below china are almost all democratic showing me some countries that is not does not make any difference stupid.

            the table does not show your tendency though, china is in the middle of that table if and those below china are mostly democratic. using by using war torn countries and closed states as north korea as an example only that you are a retard

            yes it can i give vincent the article there are hundreds of thousands of protest in china every year, and they get what they want , and if you are too stupid that you cant read read the comments here in china smack chinese netizen criticizing the government everyday and nobody take them to prison.

            respect from who????? respect come from power if you are too blind or to stupid to see that go and fuck yourself, most of asian countries are busy keep our house in order unlike westerner who like to talk shit about your democracy and human shists, that is why your clinton suggestion for ASEAN to isolate myanmar was straightly rejected

          • ScottLoar

            Then you will continue to be a “subject” of the ruling party (執政黨子弟) and not a “citizen” of the country (國家公民). I don’t think you understand the difference.

          • ASDF

            I would rather be a subject of China than a citizen of the Philippines.

          • ScottLoar

            I don’t think you understand. Even a citizen of a very poor country like the Philippines has legal rights that even a high subject in China cannot have. You do not understand the difference between “rule by law” (以法治國) as in China’s one-party system and “rule of law” (依法治國) as in democratic countries. You also think this doesn’t matter so long as you can make money.

            In time you will discover you are very, very wrong.

          • vincent

            Very true @ScottLoar:disqus couldn’t have said it better myself.

          • ASDF

            Oh then i guess it’s just a coincidence that corruption levels are so well correlated with per-capita income.

          • ScottLoar

            What? You suggest that high income allows high corruption? Corruption – the taking of money by government officials in return for favours (if done by a man or woman for sex the word is “prostitution”) – is part of the human condition, but certain conditions allow it to flourish and become common. This is especially true when there is one-party rule, when that single party is the sole dispenser of favours and when there is no check, no outside investigation or authority, to stop corruption. This is China’s situation now.

          • ASDF

            oops i meant negatively correlated sorry. China’s corruption is actually very well controlled compared to countries with similarly low per-capita gdp.

          • ScottLoar

            Continue to my edited reply, please, explaining “equality” and “inequity”.

          • ScottLoar

            The problem of China’s single-party authority is not inequality which is the outcome of
            different circumstances laden by chance, but inequity which
            is the outcome of manipulated circumstances laden by favour.

          • manofearth

            yeah u dream on bout the rule of law – go back to ur so called “democratic” country… and try see what law is….

          • ScottLoar

            Your comment is an attempt at ridicule. It is not an argument, it is not reason, it is not even an informed opinion, just ridicule. And, based on ignorance of the very country and system you try to ridicule.

            You may remain perfectly happy where you are. That is your choice, but don’t think that choice is based on any other than a misplaced pride and willful ignorance for comparison.

          • manofearth

            take it as a fact – and from there- try make it better – and then stop trying to insult ppl with knowledge – maybe then u too find some happiness of ur own circumstances…

          • ScottLoar

            Insult people with knowledge? How can you insult people by presenting them with knowledge? Surely you are not serious? You’re joking to say knowledge is an insult, yes?

            How do you know my circumstances? How do you presume to know my circumstances? Do you really understand what you are trying to write?

          • manofearth

            dont worry – i do understand u – hope u ll seek and get help – u sure need it – seeming unaware of ur words u just typed- u do need serious help… best of luck to you

          • http://www.gofuckyourself.org/ Glockenspiel McRibbontropp

            0.50 RMB!

          • mr.wiener

            lol. yeh Scott, stop insulting people with knowledge :)

          • cc

            is he writing? Sort of a mishmash of txt garbage.

          • http://www.gofuckyourself.org/ Glockenspiel McRibbontropp

            Good job. you earned your 0.50 RMB for the day.

          • ScottLoar

            Yes, you do want the CCP to reform, you do want them to reduce corruption and poverty, but you have no choice in the matter. You cannot influence any decision they make, you cannot voice any meaningful opinion nor present any program for improvement. You must totally rely on the “moral goodness’ of men who have spent a lifetime occupied by gaining position in the ruling party.

          • ASDF

            You think you can make decisions for your country by voting? You think you are knowledgeable enough to make policies and reforms for your government? did American civilians vote for a war against Iraq? Did American civilians vote for conscription during the Vietnam war? Did American civilians vote for an income tax? Ridiculous…

          • dave

            The American people did not have a vote regarding those things. That was the problem.

            Anyway, people don’t need to know how to run a country. They just need to know what they want, and have a voice to express that.

            It’s then the governments job to listen to the people, and to act in the people’s interests. That’s what gives a mature government it’s legitimacy.

          • Jennster

            The Chinese criticise the govt like a lot of my countrymen based on corruption and social issues not because of wanting election system. Low corruption can be achieved as seen in our history under earlier Qing dynasty emperors. The key is for more inland provinces to develop to the standard of coastal regions so average Chinese earn higher and the incentive to corrupt becomes lower due to better welfare and this takes time. Highest growth rates are now concentrated in inland at 15 percent

          • DavidisDawei

            The USA has almost 50 million people on food stamps, an unknown number of people who are unemployed or under employed who are voting for politicians who promise to tax the (mysterious 1%) people who can afford to pay these bills.

            Of course, those people relying on the givernment check every month think it is perfectly fine for Big Brother to play Robin Hood.

            We have all heard people say, “History repeats itself”, but I suspect most people usually roll their eyes when they hear that because they can’t cite any real world examples of this ever happening since history could extend several life times or millennium to come full circle.

            Plato writes about Five regimes and how they transition from one to another over time. Today’s United States of America is Not the same country of my Father or Grandfather. You could argue that the USA is going to experience the following transition in our lifetime.

            “In democracy the lower class grows bigger and bigger. The poor become the winners. Diversity is supreme. People are free to do what they want and live how they want.
            Democracy then degenerates into tyranny where no one has discipline and society exists in chaos. Democracy is taken over by the longing for freedom. Power must be seized to maintain order. A champion will come along and experience power, which will cause him to become a tyrant. The people will start to hate him and eventually try to remove him but will realize they are not able.” (Plato – The Republic – 380 BC)

            I think Ronald Reagan hit the nail on the head when he said;

            “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’

          • dave

            Ronald Reagan was an actor.

            I’ll never understand this line of reasoning. Government is dangerous and often devolves into tyranny, so we need government that is less accountable to the people?

            Philosopher kings don’t exist. A benevolent dictator is still a tyrant.

          • DavidisDawei

            Ronald Reagan was also the 40th President of the United States.

            Yes, of course any government has the potential to be dangerous when people blindly trust in what they want you to believe.

            I think what Plato wrote is that in a democracy, things eventually get so out of control, that people choose to give up freedom in return for order/discipline, but as they give up these freedoms, one by one, they realize too late they created a monster and have no recourse.

            Reagan believed in a smaller Federal Government; allowed for more efficient and effective government and allowed people a Greater say and ability to impact change at the local and State levels. I think he is correct and this is in line with the United States Constitution.

          • BiffyClanger

            As individuals casting vote making a difference in democracy is a lie and have only ever worked in countries no bigger than a city state through out history. It is a problem of scale. However, the whole point is the voting process CAN remove you from reign in power in a PEACEFUL manner and provide INCENTIVE to do better in one stroke. I.e. it can provide and evolutionary pressure to change. Can you say the same about one party systems?

          • dave

            Article 34. All citizens of the People’s Republic of China who have reached the age of 18 have the right to vote and stand for election, regardless of nationality, race, sex, occupation, family background, religious belief, education, property status, or length of residence, except persons deprived of political rights according to law.

          • BiffyClanger

            The problem with corruption is that it is natural out-come of an monopoly of ANY sort. This has been proven by history again and again and the CPC is no exception.

            Having NO evolutionary pressure that challenges your reign in power coming from regular elections means that the only REAL incentive to change is if things get so bad it undermines your rule, as a bottom line. This might be remediated some-what by ‘reforms’ however they inevitably only offers temporary respite and WILL not produce long lasting change simply because the monopoly of power at root of this corruption is still intact! Just look at the cycle of the dynasties in China should give you a hint of where things will end up, and if thats anything to go by it is not going to be good for the Chinese people. So wake the mother-f*cking up from this retarded illusion that just some lala-land reform is going to be enough from things going seriously tits up in the long run. You are doing your country tragic disservice.

            Of course even the party representational democratic elections is unable to provide all the checks and balances against corruption but I can assure you it is damn better than any solution a party monopoly can come up with.

          • manofearth

            u grow some hairs first – then do something worthwhile- then have the right to express ur opinions about ppl who have been through this a long time ago – but maybe u just stick to ur -whos-looking-good attitude…

          • mr.wiener

            Share with us, the unenlightened, the worthwhile things you have done that mean we have to listen to your opinion.

          • vincent

            I think if given the chance a lot of Chinese would gladly take on HK ID’s, I mean even foreigners in China can move between China and it’s territories easier than most Chinese can.

          • ASDF

            Because of wealth, and prestige. not because of elections. Rich people with Beijing or Shanghai hukou can move around the world. Freedom correlates with money, not democracy.

          • linette lee

            Many people in Hong kong are poor. Poor hk people enjoy the same hk gov’t benefits like the rich hk people such as medical, free school, freedom or speech..internet…etc. Hk also have welfare and housing programs for the poor. Nobody suffers from starvation or forced abortion. HK have human rights. All men are created equal.

            China gov’t?

          • ASDF

            If you are poor, you can’t afford to live in hongkong. The poor hongkonger is still much richer than those you see suffering from starvation and forced abortion.

          • linette lee

            That is not true. My parents were poor when I was a kid. We lived in those hk gov’t housing/project. It was small apartment but clean. No rats or roaches. They are gov’t buildings for the poor. The rent is subsidized by the hk gov’t. I went to public school like all the other kids. School is free. I had medical coverage. I had used the public hk hospital admitted as inpatient and it was nice. All under hk gov’t. My parents worked and paid tax to hk gov’t.

            In Hk you can take out loan to go to college. Take out loan to open business or mortgage to buy property even if you are just working class. If you are good and you work hard you can advance.

          • linette lee

            The china people who talks like you mostly are from the china big cities or towns. Why you give up all your wealth and move yourself to those china rural areas and live there. See how much human rights you have being poor living in rural areas under China gov’t. 600 millions plus rural china chinese not as lucky as you. Where is their equal human rights under china gov’t?

          • ASDF

            Exactly Hongkong is a big city. Take india for example, they also used to be colonized by the british, they’re also democratic. but corruption and starvation is still rampant. Hongkong is nice because it’s a big city. period.

          • linette lee

            If the entire western half of China was all controlled by HK gov’t it would be even shittier than it is now………….

            You are bullshxting again. How would you know? Why would it hurt china gov’t to copy the gov’t model of hk?

            But of course first china central gov’t must set up some kind of anti-corruption department. HK has ICAC.
            http://www.icac.org.hk/en/home/index.html

            China also needs to stop the bullshxt with the fake one child policy. They need to really implement one child policy to control population. None of that if you have money to pay fine you can have 10 kids nonsense. Use public education to preach and sterilization if they have to.

            China can use more funds to improve living condition in the rural areas. Take care of their internal problem. Not build a freaking bird nest stadium.

          • ASDF

            You can’t save the poor by dragging down the rich.

          • elizabeth

            Yeah right. You can save them with a skyrocketing income gap.

          • ASDF

            How does it hurt? it probably makes the poor envious and bitter towards the rich ya sure w/e, but that’s more of a political stability issue, not a human welfare issue. what do yo suppose we do instead? take income from the rich and distribute it among the poor? Mao already tried that…..

          • elizabeth

            Mr Mao is a communist. Goes to show communism does not work.

          • wacky

            using hong kong as example is misleading, for a city with 7 millions population its easy to control, but you cant apply the same thing for the whole china.

            look at india for example both are former british colonies with the similar legal system left behind by the british but why cant india be like HK after almost 70 years of independence.
            anyway HK never have a democracy either

          • wacky

            then explain to us how voting and democracy can change that??? it has not changed anything too much in philippines and indonesia or mongolia or even india and africa

          • vincent

            Not necessarily true, an average citizen of another country that doesn’t have the restrictions that come with the Chinese passport would be able to travel freely, that isn’t the same for a normal Chinese citizen, so your point of money = freedom doesn’t completely fly here.
            The reason that democracy doesn’t work in some countries would stem from a cultural problem or a lack of proper structure, perhaps class differences, religion and such play a part in eroding it’s effectiveness, but it does work given the right amount of time.
            If communism was the way to go why haven’t other countries around the world accepted it?

          • ASDF

            Can average Mexicans travel freely to america? Why do so many bother to cross illegally i wonder.

            Also, China is not communist.

          • vincent

            Well I don’t know much about Mexico but in a place where cartels and the drug trade is alive and well I would think any country would want to introduce measures that prevent it from being too easy for an individual from Mexico from coming in to easily. If China isn’t communist what is it really? I’m actually curious.

          • ASDF

            You can describe China as Technocratic, Authoritarian, or State Capitalist i guess, but it’s definitely not communist.

          • elizabeth

            Actually, I find China very confusing. She wants to be capitalist, but she has a communist party at the helm. it’s paradoxical.

          • BiffyClanger

            Why is it paradoxical?

          • elizabeth

            Ideologically. Governments should practice what they preach.

          • BiffyClanger

            It is a bit more nuanced than that. According to Marx to achieve communism one has to pass through the however unjust phase of Capitalist accumulation, one that all supposed claimants to Communism (Bolshevism) had failed to adhere to. I am sure in their mind this is the phase they are going through on the march to a Socialist paradise.

            I think some policies such as Go-West can be understood as in such context.

          • elizabeth

            Yes, nuance. Unless you are part of the CCP (are you?:)), it isn’t clear which direction they are actually marching in. Meanwhile, the ‘socialist’ ideal or otherwise means nothing to those whose lives are trampled on by the ones marching towards their paradise. They may not even live to see the end of the march.

          • BiffyClanger

            Yes that is the tragedy of such Grand-Ideals. However, one also cannot deny that for millions of people who lived under abject poverty in China their lot have been dramatically improved over the last 30 years. I am no CCP stooge nor am I beholden to simple Western narrative of China’s rise. I have lived and worked in China on and off over the last decade and seen it change with my own eyes, talked with both common folk and scholars about their hopes and fears for the future of this fascinating nation. Whilst I can’t claim to be impartial what I can tell you is that Western, particular American ‘journalism’ on China is laughably naive and partisan. Even so called experts, wich books under their belt on China are out of their depth in one way or another and often get basic facts wrong or out of context. I don’t know what your relationship with China is. However it is my sincerest wish that people don’t automatically jump to conclusions about this vast and diverse country.

          • elizabeth

            I am a foreigner here with fewer years and less experience than you do with China. I am aware of the complexities involved but sometimes I get a little impatient. I am still trying to understand her. Thanks for sharing…and Merry Christmas!

          • elizabeth

            Oops, it’s ‘happy holidays’, to be politically correct :)

          • BiffyClanger

            Thanks and a Merry Christmas to you too!

          • BiffyClanger

            Well lets just say its all culturally relative. Here is a fascinating article to that effect. Its a country in transition and hopefully we all can all do our bit to make it better.

            http://www.psmag.com/magazines/magazine-feature-story-magazines/joe-henrich-weird-ultimatum-game-shaking-up-psychology-economics-53135/

          • ScottLoar

            China is not communist? Tell that to the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China. Do you not understand that the Communist Party is considered the agency of rule? That the mission of the Communist Party in China is to lead the masses?

          • ASDF

            Communism which allows free trade and public ownership. That’s pretty much Communism without communism.

          • ScottLoar

            The leadership of the Chinese state is Bolshevism, meaning an enlightened cadre of communists leads and governs the state.

            The economic practice has been called “corporate Leninism” (see
            http://the-american-interest.com/article.cfm?piece=1231) but can simply be defined as Chinese mercantilism: China is a communist country with state-owned enterprises conforming to an economic plan. Internationally China acts as a mercantilist, meaning it believes that exports and values must exceed imports to maintain growth and prosperity, that the economy must be managed in favour of select enterprises and products, local industries must be protected through high tariffs, and that self-sufficiency in almost everything is a state goal unlike most Western countries which follow Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” of comparative advantage.

            In common practice the Chinese state is authoritarian, and will admit no challenges to its authority, no dissent from its policies, no arguments against its practices. In all the Chinese people, as I defined for you, are still subjects of the state and not yet citizens of the nation.

            And you quibble about the People’s Republic of China being communist or not?

          • ASDF

            Sounds like the McCarthy era in the US. Was the United states not democratic back then? Does it even matter?

          • wacky

            communism was not the way to, stop living in cold war era

            china has been developing fast under one party system, the same can be said for most of the more developed countries in asia.

            anyway unlike US china does not want to export its system abroad.

            if democracy is not working after decades (which is proven in many countries) does it mean that you should chage the political system ?

          • vincent

            You do realize that there is a rural population in China that is being neglected? Anyone who speaks out for the common man is jailed for vague reasons such as ‘disturbing the public order’, human rights are a joke in China and just because you aren’t at the receiving end of the inequalities that a normal person might face doesn’t mean that your fellow countrymen aren’t.
            A political system doesn’t have to be stringent and there is always room for change especially if that change would give the common man a voice, at least living in a democratic country you don’t have your leaders forced down your throat.

          • wacky

            they are not being neglected, many places are not as developed as the other places even shanghai is not yet equal to the developed countries, in fact the government for several years has been effort to develop inland areas.

            there is inequalities i dont deny that ( where in my post did i do so???) but i reject your western religion of human right and democracy since the beginning. so according to you income inequality is the problem of human rights and not an problem of economy?? even in the US the income there is income inequality.
            communism is a good remedy for inequality and those who lived under that era think so
            http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2012/10/20121030956540744.html

            why do you think that every problem is the problem of democracy and human rights and the answer is democracy and human rights as well???

            “the political system doesnt have to be….”

            so do you agree democracy and human right itself is should not be stringent therefore a space for dictatorship and authoritarian government could be a good choice at one point?

          • vincent

            I think we’re getting off track on this one because communism is not the answer, the thing is that human rights are paramount in any situation, if you strip a human of his/her rights, then what separates them from animals? I do not talk of income equality but there should be a welfare system for the rural, poor and migrant populations of China.
            It isn’t like China is a poor country, whether you accept or deny human rights is totally up to you, but I can wager if you were put in a situation where you had no rights you would be singing a different tune.

          • wacky

            there is no such thing as human right all the rights you have are in line with the constitution (that is why you cant eat bubble gum in singapore) not because you are a human.

            the government can never afford to give absolutely no right to the people because they will revolt, the people should not have too many rights if its not equal to their contributions, that is why keep insisting that you have the rights to do this and that is a sign of stupidity

            i agree the government should help the poor but dont forget the fact that the old communist era really did that

          • Jennster

            No we don’t. The fact that most can’t because overall china GDP per capita is low but coastal regions are high. Shanghai and Beijing and Guangzhou can freely get individual visa to Japan due to their law of Chinese from these cities but not from poorer regions.

          • vincent

            Who do you think you are speaking for? We is subjective, you’re from Shanghai and I’m assuming that your family is not poor so you shouldn’t be one to talk about freedom of movement with a Chinese passport, I’ve read the other articles about the comparison between a Chinese passport and let’s say Taiwan and I know that anyone from the ‘poorer’ cities of China would give up their passports in a heartbeat if given the chance to get one from HK.

          • Jennster

            That problem can be solved with time. An Indian Passport is also bad regardless of their democracy. This doesn’t mean we Chinese want independence. We stand united desire overall low average.

          • vincent

            Ok let’s take an Indian passport for example, I think they can go to HK and Macau freely and aren’t those Chinese territories? What’s up with that? All problems can be solved with time, and again I don’t really know who you speak for.
            Have you asked your fellow Chinese their opinions and I’m not talking about the ones that have enough money to do as they wish but normal folk, and perhaps the answer might shock you.

          • moody

            I beleive they would.
            HK’s hospitals are swamped with mainland Chinese mothers, not because of the quality of healthcare there I can tell you that.

          • Gaius Baltar

            Only problem is they cannot get british citizenship. If your government in Beijing had not been so stubborn, the UK could have continued the administration of the territory while letting HK people make their own laws and rules and manage their own daily lives. Instead all that was scuppered….hence HK people can’t get a british passport now.

        • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

          As far as I know, he is pretty much based in Beijing these days.

          • ASDF

            Solid argument. Bravo!

          • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

            ? (I don’t get it)

          • elizabeth

            Chinese sarcasm.

  • thmswhnr

    I’m glad so many Mainland netizens realize what a toolshed Cheng Long is being when he says such things.

    • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

      But that’s the rule: in order to do business in China, one must panda-pander and adopt the toolshed position. Foreigners know this, Jackie knows this, and mainlanders know this, and even some of them hate it (as seen above).

      But there’s absolutely no other role to adopt. If you don’t panda-pander but are a nice and honest guy, you won’t get by in China.

      • thmswhnr

        Truth. Even people working for non-Chinese companies were obliged to fellate the Party via Red Songs last year. If you don’t please the Party, you’re over. In any business.

        • ASDF

          Jet Li isn’t over, Donnie Yen isn’t over, Stephen Chow isn’t over. Good panderers avoid controversial topics altogether. Jackie’s blunt statements just make people offended. That’s what he gets for being honest.

          • thmswhnr

            Yeah, those three guys pandered by acting in propaganda films. They do what needs to be done to maintain face with respect to the Party, but they don’t make toolish statements to the press like Mr. Cheng here. Different magnitudes of the same thing, I suppose.

          • ASDF

            What propaganda films? Care to name a few?

          • thmswhnr

            The Founding of a Republic. Ever heard of it?

          • ASDF

            It’s a historical film about the founding of China’s government. What makes it a “propaganda film”? Is there anything in particular about this movie which makes it more “propagandistic” than other historical films? or do you consider all historical films to be propaganda?

          • thmswhnr

            OK, I’l admit that it is only “arguably” a propaganda film. By “arguably”, I mean that there are numerous Party spokesmen and blindly patriotic Mainlanders that have felt the need to argue that it is NOT propaganda (this wouldn’t happen if the perception that it is propaganda didn’t exist). There is also the fact that it was made by a state owned film company, and that most reviewers not falling into the above two categories of deniers say that it slants history with the aim of glorifying the Party.

          • ASDF

            Sounds like the typical Hollywood film to me. When villains destroy, AMURIKA SAVES EARTH! When aliens invade, AMURIKA SAVES EARTH! When the Americans attack the middle east, AMURIKA SAVES EARTH!

          • thmswhnr

            How many of those were made by a political party and seek to glorify the party as the reason for the country’s success?

          • ASDF

            How clever…. Chinese propaganda glorifies the single party system. American propaganda glorifies their multi-party system. So arguing that propaganda is absent because it does not glorify any specific party is just misleading.

            Chinese movies protect Chinese interests and values.

            American movies protect american interests and values.

            Whether or not they’re labeled as propaganda really just depends on who’s talking.

          • BigCAD

            ‘Founding of the Republic’ was released at about the same time as the 60th anniversary of one of China’s more recent cock ups, oddly enough being the founding of the PRC, so this isn’t propaganda?

            I await the Chinese version of Oliver Stone’s new movies including ‘Born on the 4th of July’ (Sino Vietnam war). ‘Nixon’ (replaced with Mao explaining his actions during the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution), and Wall Street (looking at the.strangle hold state run operations have on the Chinese economy)……Apparently I may have to wait some time.

            Yank films may be chock full of propaganda but I have yet to see a film in China which criticized the order of the day.

          • BiffyClanger

            Apparently you missed the entire ouvre of the most prominent Chinese directors (6th Generation) working today… you know the ones that win all the international awards (Europeans ones anyway) and such… oh well. Here’s a tip, type 6th generation Chinese director in google and off you go.

          • BigCAD

            What can I say, I blinked.

          • BiffyClanger

            No no no there is nothing hipsterish about them as in nothing vapid and devoid of actually value. They are often hard hitting and realistic in their portrayal if at times boring yes I’ll admit but heartfelt.

          • mattman_183

            Oh, it is propaganda. Government backed and regulated. Packaged for their enjoyment. Government purposefully manipulating the box office to sell more tickets. Everything from newspapers, to TV has the Chinese government’s middle finger deep inside it. This is what make’s it propaganda. Because film and all other kinds of media are engineered specifically to promote the country and the ideals they think it should follow. Love, war, and anything in between is not judged for its entertainment value, but its pro and/or neutral Chinese message. And this is not a few, its virtually every single film.

            The screening process involves lying, hiding, and glossing over any topic, no matter how interesting it may be, in order to project the party, as at the least, present and at other times nothing short of glorious. Funding for movies comes strongly from the government. Without it, films have very little chance of being made in China. So Chinese directors often have to sacrifice creativity (and a better story) for compromise.

            This is especially true in the countless war movies being pumped into theaters where the enemy is more often than not, Japanese.

            Some people may think that these films are simply patriotic, and telling of a terrible time in China’s history. That is true, but its not the entire truth. The less obvious, but most important reason there are so many foreign villains on TV and media in general is that it keeps people suspicious of outsiders, while distracting them internal atrocities that continue today.

            The Japanese are constant enemies on TV and film (constantly) because they are the easiest to set off a conditioned populace and gives them a target to let off steam. Again, government influenced.

            You are wrong about American film and entertainment in general. Films… practically everything on TV (including unfortunately, news) are based on their entertainment value in America. There is no necessary government oversight (except a post production rating system), or values that need to be promoted. No 2 party system that has to be glorified that u mentioned.

            Are some films patriotic, yes. But it is by choice, not necessity. And nothing as consistent as in China.

            And if it ends up sucking and nobody sees this American patriotic film, so the hell what? A good film is a good film. A bad one, a bad one. No need to make schools and workers see the film to give the illusion that it is a good and popular film as was done with the government smut “Founding of a Nation.”

            The fact that China has months each year dedicated to Chinese films only is not about protecting Chinese films so much as it is protecting its government’s pride. You see, when you work so hard to oversee films that end up losing to foreign films like “I Am Number 4″ you need a confidence boost by again, creating the illusion of success by removing the competition. The fact that the govt. does this in the first place is one example of how involved they are in the industry.

            I wonder if they know that it is their interference in Chinese film that makes more films than not so terrible?

          • BiffyClanger

            Dude can you do an abridged version of what you said then I promise to read it…

          • mattman_183

            I did! I guess just read the first sentence in each paragraph…I’ll write shorter for you next time.

          • movie goer

            i’m no fan of the Chinese govt, but i’d rather listen to their propaganda than western corporate propaganda.

          • BiffyClanger

            Orr they should both be exposed as propaganda? Just sayin’.

          • movie goer

            well, theres a bigger difference between what i think in the morning, and what i think at night, than there is between the “multi-party system”.

          • BiffyClanger

            yeah hollywood is the most powerful propaganda machine in the world that doesn’t realise what it is.

          • BiffyClanger

            How about
            – Commissioned by the state owned China Film Group
            – Made to coincide with 60th anniversary.
            – The Communists leaders in the film where portrayed without faults (although credits has to be given for the handling of Chiang Kai-Shek)
            – Portrayed CPC’s ascension to power as ‘willed’ by pro-democracy parties. (to be fair one point in the film after Mao took power some non essential character did say something like”Mao is the new emperor”)
            So yeah it is NOT shameless propaganda like they used to make them in the 60s and 70s and certainly tries to be fair to the KMT but it is still all shinny happy CPCs in there that makes me slightly cringe.

            Surprisingly watchable if not for the ironic snigger value of the part where KMT where denounced for being corrupt and nepotistic and the same thing is happening today.

          • BigCAD

            Dude can you do an abridged version of what you said then I promise I won’t read it…

          • BiffyClanger

            Ouch, longest I wrote was less than 15 lines, mattman wrote around 40? That was uncalled for.

          • movie goer

            the kmt were some dodgy mofos, and would make al qaeda look like boy scouts. why is it that all u.s backed regimes have hands soaked with blood? i look at the terorists in Syria today, and i say to myself, dam, that really reminds me of the kmt

          • movie goer

            want to see real propaganda. check out red dawn

          • anon

            GIDDY PATRIOTISM!

            It is call patriotism.

            Good on you Jackie! You have a point. But need to to temper one’s patriotism with a level head. Some demos have valid points not all.

            I will support Hongkies if they also protest about the US invasion in other countries and the millions of innocents who have shit bombed out of them…..

            Make you suspicious that they always protest about this and that against China…

            Whose interests are they serving– the West?

            Or are they stirred up by the Western powers who have economically invaded and subverted China after Den X Peng’s black & white cat open red carpet door policy to welcome the Western capitalists!

            Did those who protest against China also protest agains the Japanese illgeal occupation of thr Diaoyu Islands? If you did at least you know who you are!

      • http://www.facebook.com/gordon.gogodancer Gordon Gogodancer

        It’s shit, but it’s true

      • Marxman

        Jackie Chan may have said a bit too much but a bit of control is needed for China… otherwise it will be a big brawl.

        The sad part is that the minority rich owns most of China and the majority still need a real revolution to advance in their lives.

        The class struggle continues……

        • movie goer

          it’s true. there is too much dam freedom in China, especially for the reactionaries. i’d say more freedom needs to be given to the left, and the fascists need to go.

      • movie goer

        “do business”? is that what you call exploitation these days? capitalists. got to love them. always got some new deceptive wording each day.

    • BiffyClanger

      I am sure he is expressing an honest opinion. I mean he IS a glorified stunts-man that has taken one too many blows to the head. Have you seen him actually trying to act? Now there is a crime against humanity.

    • Cleo

      He’s very old school genuine Hong Kong and he is voicing what many private citizens feel about the majority of the protests – they are showing our young people as being less clear thinking and articulate than they would otherwise be in daily life. Hong Kong children are raised to be precise and appropriate from a very early age – in effect, they are groomed to be accurate attackers and these protests are more emotional and opportunistic. There are many reports that Jackie is uneducated and ignorant in his opinions but I find them suspiciously on the mark. Prior to this, no one ever questioned Jackie’s intelligence because he is very successful and picks up a smattering of languages including English without a formal education.

      • movie goer

        old school hongers can be separated into two categories, the pro british, who had their hands greased by the british colonists, and the ones educated under the Chinese system. the sell outs (british sympathisers) will tend to side with the west, for obvious reasons. usually the ones educated in Chinese schools are more mentally sane than the ones educated in the british school system. it;s amazing how powerful the brain washing is in the british school system. the religious ones are the worst. now i see why China dislikes religion.

    • Anon

      JACKIE CHAN IS FREE TO EXPRESS HIS VIEWS- SO CAN YOU ALL.

      DON’T PRESUME YOUR ARE IN THE PRIME POSITION TO CRITICISE.

      SOME SMART PERSON PLEASE TELL US HOW YOU CAN RULE CHINA WITH 1 BILLION PEOOPLE OUT OF CONTROL?

      DEMOCRAZY? A BIT OF CONTROL CAN HELP…

      HONGKIES BEHAVE LIKE WESTERNERS…. MOST OF THEM REFUGEES FROM CHINA- WHY DON’T THEY GO BACK TO THOSE COUNTRIES THEY FLED TO BEFORE 1997 HA?

  • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

    Not implicitly acknowledged by anyone except for the interview itself: Jackie himself participated in a few demonstrations (see pic). When asked about it, Jackie said, “Sure I did, but they were important! I was in them! Not like your demonstrations! I’m not in those!”

    • thmswhnr

      His protest was in the period of Hong Kong’s history known as Imperialist Oppression. It’s different because there wasn’t the benevolent rule of the party at that point, so he didn’t have to pander to them.

      • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

        It doesn’t negate that he did it, he acknowledges it, he dismisses it and its the followup question in the interview that is often quoted by never actually read by anyone but me.

        Yes yes, yours is a humorous reply. But no comment, no website but mine seem to be pointing out this hilarious obviousness.

  • Kate

    I grew up loving Jackie Chan, he’s a cute chinese guy that looks like he’d be a really nice guy and wonderful dad but then I read that he actually is a horrible parent and husband. That he cheated on his wife constantly and only saw his 6 yr old son 6 times in 6 yrs. Kinda ruined my picturesque image of him.

    • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

      You just described the ideal Chinese man: a successful workaholic with no time for his family so laden with money he can afford “small threes” on the side.

      Are you, like, giving a compliment or something?

      • Kate

        I learned a new term for mistresses, “small threes”,what does it mean?

        • Taegeuk

          Never heard of that term as well but maybe it’s the equivalent of “bush”?

          • Taegeuk

            Blah, thought he said “small trees.” I should really get some sleep.

          • a Villain

            Small Threes refers to the mistresses rich Chinese bastards have: 小三

        • congee

          third parties?

        • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

          You are so sweet and innocent, and I’m a married, fat rich Chinese man.

          Are you sure you want me to show you what it means?

          • Kate

            -_-

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            Where are you, keyboard cat?

          • Kate

            I live in the USA right now but I’m probably moving back to Seoul in March.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            You are the most innocent lady I have ever met.

            I feel disgusted and ashamed at myself for insulting your fair lady’s honor. My eternal apologies. Though I will not learn it, there is a moral to this somewhere.

            Miss Kate, this is expressively for you:

          • Kate

            Lol that was funny ^_^ I ♥ cats

            These are my kitties

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            Miss Kate,

            my salty demeanor doesn’t allow me to respond in a situation like this except to say to the world at large that I must be a god amongst mortal commenters to be able to persuade someone to flash me her kitties here in amongst this rife.

            Seriously: do be careful here. There are worse men than me.

        • ScottLoar

          A better translation would be “the little third”; the mistress is the other outside the pair of husband and wife.

      • hess

        uh? do we live in the same China? “workaholic” doesnt exist in my part of china at least

        • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

          The Politburo?

          Hey, I have a question for you – is there a large central water bottle dispenser, or is there a guy who runs around dispenses water bottles, or is it in fact that all water bottles are unopened and glued to the table?

    • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

      I had always seen him as an innocent, funny sort of person. Really nice. Once I got older, he really started to seem like one of those people that take themselves way too seriously. A bit of a Hollywood diva, probably.

    • Taegeuk

      Bruce Lee also has been reported to have cheated on his wife with a Chinese mistress and Chinese people applauded him for sticking to his roots. Guess many weren’t happy he married a white woman.
      Never heard anything about Jet Li though.

      • Kate

        Yeah I read that too about Lee. His mistress was Betty Ting Pei, who is now shopping a tell all book about how she screwed him 33 yrs ago and his wife Linda has threatened to sue her over it. The funny part is that Ting Pei is qouted as saying, “I still feel like he is inside of me”. Shameful tho that the old whore is going to drag his wife into even more shaming to make a buck for herself off of something that happened 33 yrs ago.

        • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

          Kate, I can assure you that Lee’s wife is not exactly unscrupulous either as far as milking money from her dead husband’s name. (My ex-wife married a guy that was married to her and….well…haha…it’s complicated)

          My personal Jacky Chan anecdote is….. one of my best friends and fighting coach is top Hollywood stuntman Rick Avery. He got his start in the same movie as Jacky Chan’s first American movie “Cannonball Run” and they became friends.(see pic below of Rick throwing a roundhouse at Jacky) Years later, Rick had set me up with a stuntman job in Mexico for a Jacky Chan movie as a scuba diver that would hand Jacky a tank and regulator after Jacky jumps off a cliff after being chased by some bad guys. Sadly, the investors pulled out just days before I was set to go and the movie never got finished and that was the end of my illustrious stuntman career :(

          • linette lee

            and that was the end of my illustrious stuntman career :(……..

            hahah…lol…Why don’t you go to hong kong. The hong kong chinese film industry needs lots of stunt men. They make good money. The whole film crew.

            One stunt company from hk the stunt crew did matrix with keanu reeve. They choreographed and directed all the stunts for fight scenes and all those jumps. People flying through the glass, junp off the balcony, jump up the train…..etc… in the matrix movie. You are good you can really make it big in stuntman career.

          • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

            Well, if I was ever down and out I can always call my friend and he’d get me a stuntman job if I wanted. But at the time I had my own business going and just wanted to do the stunt for
            fun. China is such a nanny state for foreigners that I once did a movie that
            required my character to shimmy down a rope from the second floor of a
            building and they made me trade my suit with a Chinese stuntman “for my safety”
            even as I argued with that I jump out of airplanes from 15,000 feet and that the
            rope was lower than we use to climb in my high school gym. I’ve had police try
            to get me out of the sea near Ningbo while trying to body-surf some pathetic
            waist-level waves “because it’s too dangerous” even though I used to regularly
            paddle into gigantic Honolua Bay surf for years. It’s just silly.

          • Kate

            They just can’t handle how much manly man you are :)

          • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

            Nah….well……… maybe :) The rope thing I can understand a little since they had all these guys hanging around with nothing to do, so they threw the guy a bone. Still, it wasted over an hour when I could have just slid down the rope myself. But that thing at the beach? Ridiculous. I’ve seen children lighting off fireworks and nobody bats an eye but a full grown man scampering around in some tiny surf? Go figure. Anyway, my “manliness” is balanced off by the fact I got teared up at the end of “Field of Dreams” and “The Joy Luck Club” (HEY! WHO THE FUCK IS CHOPPING ONIONS IN THE THEATER?) Also, I own a copy “Love, Actually” in my dvd collection, but keep that under your hat.

          • Kate

            Balance is good, sometimes I pee standing and eat cheese slices off a knife blade and grow my mustache out.

          • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

            Cool! We have 2 things in common. Sadly, I’ve never been able to grow a proper mustache :(

          • Kate

            Ah cool story bro ^_^♥ ty for sharing!

        • Tony

          If she really did screw him 33 years ago, that would be worthy of a tell all book! Bruce Lee died in 1973, 39 years ago. Time flies!

      • Super Bunny

        Jet Li is more disgusting.he married his ex when poor, his ex was the one learnt kongfu together with him for several years. after he got famous went to HK, met his wife now then dumped ex.and even does not care for her and kids with her much.his kongfu is much tender but good soft style,not bad.
        but Donnie Yen is much more disgusting…divorced twice, now married a ugly canadian chinese,mainly for money,that woman seems has a quite rich daddy.and yes, very ugly.the only good thing of him is his kongfu is really good and tough.more disgusting of him is,he is very errogent and mean,beat other kongfu stars those not big icon as him truly badly…so mean!guess he looked too ugly,long time could not be main actor…
        Chiu Man-Cheuk is my favorite kongfu star…and very good personality…super handsome, and pretty kongfu style.he just dis not get good chance.he did not use that died hk super pop queen to get a good future the one who wanted to marry him so much,married an average woman.but his wife looks too average, annoyed so many chinese women.hmm, i love him!

        • Taegeuk

          Divorcing and marrying another woman is definitely not as bad as having an extramarital affair.

          • hess

            IN CHINA IT IS!! DIVORCE IS THE WORK OF THE DEVIL! i mean, its shanghuo!

        • congee

          but so far I’ve never heard jet li and donnie yen put their mouths into political and sensitive issues and spurt dumb comments..which jackie did many times XD..

          • Super Bunny

            jet li build a found, not sure if it’s real charity or just wash money…

            about yen, not even wanna mention…

            sorry, i am a lady, for men sure sex affair is a small thing, not much related to one’s reputation, but for women, nobody likes cheaters or this kinda snobish selfish men to be super stars.

        • Christopher Hitchens

          super bunny you sound really bitter. seems like penis envy or something. you know that people grow apart. just as men cheat on women the other one applies just as often. People just grow apart. According to you unless they stay together till they die it’s “disgusting?”

          • Super Bunny

            why shall i envy?
            what for? just dislike…

        • linette lee

          Wow…bunny, you know more about these hk stars than me. I don’t read about them too much. I just watch their films.

          You like kungfu films? I am not too much into kungfu films, but this one is good. They made a movie about Bruce lee early life in hong kong before he became bruce lee. The story was told by bruce lee’s younger brother robert lee.

          Aarif Lee played the young bruce lee. It’s amazing, but he does look like a young bruce lee.

          http://koolcampus.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/aarif-lee.jpg

          http://sin.stb.s-msn.com/i/13/DBFC484461A14D933C7AE3259AA.jpg

    • congee

      besides treating his son like a piece of cr@p, he also never acknowledge his illegitimate daughter and treat her like dust. oh the irony when she looks a lot like him.

      • Kate

        I think his wife has some part too. She has stayed with him all this time knowing he is screwing other women all the time but chose to sacrafice self respect to stay with his money. No self respecting woman would tolerate a husband that shames her so much.

        • congee

          same thoughts here, I always think the wife stayed for money. other than that I also feel that Elaine Ng who had the daughter with Jackie also wasn’t that innocent. However Jaycee and Etta are innocent in this, whether Jackie like his marriage or not, and whether he hated Elaine or not, these two are still his biological children. He’s a scumdaddy.

          • Kate

            Well his wife had every right to get pregnant by her husband, this Elaine Ng is just a gold digger who knew he was married and already had a child, “forgot” her bc to get pregnant in hopes he would stick around and give her money. The children are victims of fucked up adults.

          • linette lee

            Brandon lee doesn’t look like his father bruce lee at all. Maybe Bruce wanted a pure blood chinese son. It’s a big thing to carry the bloodline.

            http://www.nowhavefun.com/celebritypictures/d/29598-1/37+Brandon+Lee+photo.jpg

          • http://www.facebook.com/rosemon.pilot Rosemon Calvin Pilot

            Nah Lin Bruce was happy with Brandon Lee….if he wanted a pure blood son he wouldn’t of fucked around with linda. Brandon my boy…don’t fuck with THE CROW!!! ^_^

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            I don’t have anything to add. Except: I can never get over the fact that his son’s name is his dad’s initials. Or, you know, Jesus Christ.

            I honestly don’t have any opinion on his personal life, though I had a roommate that was convinced that Jackie is gay.

            I moved out. It was years later.

        • bprichard

          She looks like him? He should give her all his money as compensation.

        • elizabeth

          But a mother who cares about her child more than herself would tolerate the shame. To you it might be money, to her it might be love for her child.

          • Kate

            You can very well love your baby just as much and not put up with a man doing that to you, no one, man or woman, deserves to be treated like they are last place in their spouse’s eyes. It also really hurts children when one parent commits adultry. Tho honestly I don’t know what the chinese system is on divorce pay outs, if they favor men in these cases or not, how much the woman would get in assets, etc.

          • elizabeth

            That’s from a parent’s point of view, that as long as she loves her child, it does not matter if she stays married or is single. But from the child’s point of view, daddy and mommy broke up because of him, that if they really loved him, they would stay together. Maintenance money doesn’t mean much to young kids.

            Kids also need father and mother figures. Broken homes with single or step-parents do a bad job at that.

        • manofearth

          yeah u should grow some hairs first – like linette….

    • lonetrey / Dan

      exact same thing happened to me. Except I had an even higher image of him since my dad always said how awesome Jackie Chan was…

    • erguotouplease

      you forgot to mention he had a daughter with another woman. dumped her and the little girl. never be a father for his own daughter.

      • Kate

        Actually I just didn’t know he had done that. Baby daddy ain’t worth a damn.

  • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

    Jackie Chan hasn’t been relevant or cool for quite a long time.

  • elizabeth

    Retiring from acting, commenting on politics. Maybe he wants to be the next Chief Executive of Hong Kong.

  • http://mykafkaesquelife.blogspot.com/ My Kafkaesque Life

    He doesn’t have many friends in Taiwan, either because of his pro-China views. he’s really become a CCP spokesman.

  • wacky

    support jackie

  • Super Bunny

    never liked anything of him.
    too old and ugly, his kongfu looked like a clown,and so short…
    neither tough fast or powerful…
    do not know why he got so famous…

    • elizabeth

      He’s got talent that perhaps you don’t.

      • Super Bunny

        celebrity is for public to judge and talk about, that’s why they exist,they are not god or something so royal.

        • elizabeth

          Ah, the art of gossiping.

  • donnachadh

    ‘Whoever amongst you has what it takes can come govern’

    Is he calling for a revolution?

    • elizabeth

      He is calling for action. The ‘being the change you want to see’ thing. Not just protest and a lot of unproductive noise that gets nothing much done besides being a nuisance when overdone.

  • Yangzhou Fried Rice

    It’s disappointing to hear these comments come from Chan. I’ve got five or so of his movies on VHS. I don’t know if I can watch them again without thinking how he’s just a Chinese government lapdog.

    • http://www.facebook.com/gordon.gogodancer Gordon Gogodancer

      i’ve had the same feeling since Beijing 2008

    • jin

      what does a good movie have to do with the actors behavior and believes?
      you watch the movie cause its good, you dont want it because the actor is a goody goody guy.

  • ASDF

    Anyone else notice how Jackie always wears tangzhuang rather than suits or tuxedos? He’s just a very patriotic guy who loves his people, culture, and country.

    • http://www.facebook.com/gordon.gogodancer Gordon Gogodancer

      This kind of patriotic people live in dreamworld…they don’t love the people, they love just love an idea of a perfect China stuck in their head

      • ASDF

        Oh, so anyone who doesn’t abhor the CCP lives in dreamworld? What kind of patriot lives in the real world then? The type who constantly fantasize about the collapse of their own government? The type who think that democratic elections can somehow resolve poverty and corruption? It is the dissidents and revolutionaries who are delusional, not the Chinese neo-conservatives.

        • vincent

          From a majority of the translated comments it would seem that Jacky’s views are not so popular therefore one could postulate that a growing number of Chinese are not happy with the CCP but obviously can’t be too vocal about it? His career is winding down now so it makes sense that he would want to get into good graces with the politburo after all that’s where the real power and money is :P

          • exink

            Agreed. it’s clear that many people in mainland China are unhappy with their government/local officials, but aren’t allowed to express their feelings. Hong Kong is lucky that they still can (note that there’s a difference between “loving your government” and “loving your country”)

          • ASDF

            They aren’t allowed to express their feelings? how are you able to know how they feel then? what are you psychic?

      • wacky

        but dont the protestors are the one live in the dream world??? they lost the election yet still protesting

    • elizabeth

      Or it could be the only thing he looks best in. Kind of matches his kungfu persona too. No need for extra spending on publicity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gordon.gogodancer Gordon Gogodancer

    Fuck off you monkey! I’ve disliked this prick since i heard him speaking during the olympics…i realised this guy was just a tool of the gvt! I love China but i detest this kind of brainless cunts!

    • manofearth

      sry but u should fuck urself off – u r the last one needed in china -so go home lil gogoboy! china doesnt like braindead dancing cunts like u ; )

  • http://www.matthewsawtell.com/ Matthew A. Sawtell

    So… is Jackie bucking for admittance to the CCP? Seriously, the way he has been harping, one would think he is.

    • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

      In the actual interview Jackie says that he isn’t angling for political office, but would like to be Minister of Transportation so that he can fix his pet peeve: gridlock and wayward parked cars.

      • elizabeth

        That’s what they usually say until they spring the surprise.

        • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

          Jackie’s next movie: The Crying Game?

          Also: I’m not kidding about that quote. I’m saddened to say that no one hear has actually read his interview. It’s crap, but full of wild “Jackie-ism” that stay in line with his famous “Oh yeah, I nearly died in the 9/11 disaster”.

        • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

          He’s gay? He’s adopted? OH WAIT – he was a ghost for the entire movie.

      • http://www.matthewsawtell.com/ Matthew A. Sawtell

        So… he is bucking for job in government, hence the need for CCP membership.

  • MidniteOwl

    Jack-ass Chan.去死啦!

  • ScottLoar

    No matter China or the West is there any famous person in the arts or entertainment who is recognized for their intelligence? Most of them – directors, actors, singers, writers – are political crazies. It’s as if a wealth of creative talent was granted to the detriment of intellect.

    • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

      Yes…..quite a few actually. Too many for me to list. Frank Zappa, for one was one of the most eloquent and articulate speakers ever and will always be remembered for the way he owned the US Senate every time he opened his mouth. James Cameron is so far ahead into the future with projects to benefit the planet it will make your head spin. You think Jon Stewart is not respected for his intelligence? Letterman? Bill Maher? Arnold Schwarzeneggar has obviously proven his brain is even stronger than his muscles. Shall I keep going? You might not like some of their politics but you better not under-estimate their intelligence.

      • ScottLoar

        Odd you think Jon Stewart and Letterman are primarily entertainers. Bill Maher is a narrow-minded bigot who despises and ridicules anyone (e.g. Ben Stein) not of his favored political stripe, and curious you throw him in with Stewart and Letterman.

        You don’t know my politics so don’t assume you know, and I don’t gauge intelligence by political affiliation, which I suspect you most definitely do. You clearly don’t have any understanding of what I meant by political crazies.

        • http://soundcloud.com/starhawk-1 Little Wolf

          Actually, I shy away from politics and not interested in debating them with anybody so if you’re looking for a fight I’m the wrong guy. I never assumed I knew your politics and could care less. Bill Maher was an actor before he hosted his talk show so he qualifies as an “entertainer” in my book. Political crazies to me are guys like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Penn, etc…. But for the sake of others that might want to debate with you, perhaps you should be more specific, as some of us are unable to read your mind.

    • elizabeth

      You probably mean performing arts, not creativity. I’d venture to say that intelligence is a prerequisite of creativity on a broader sense, beyond slapstick humor.

      • ScottLoar

        Elizabeth, I was quite exact, “arts and entertainment”. I do understand creativity which, contrary to your notion, is not premised on intelligence; well, look to Normal Mailer. And take intelligence, Noam Chomsky’s transformational grammar is of the highest intellect; now look to his constant political pronouncements. Look to Newton, a genius of the highest rank, who practiced alchemy and was a notoriously mean and prejudiced magistrate. As to talent in arts and entertainment producing curiously dumb political views look to Sean Penn, Barbara Steisand (even though both claimed acquaintance with Christopher Hitchens, a true intellect), almost anyone featured in OMG! and other forums dedicated to gossip about celebrities. It almost seems that mention in any of those forums confirms idiocy.

        • elizabeth

          Creativity is intelligence having fun – Albert Einstein. But I do agree with you regarding the celebrity politicians wannabes.

        • BiffyClanger

          Unfortunately Chomsky’s generative grammar contradicts a lot of recent developments in Neural Science and Complexity Theory. I won’t get into it but he makes more sense talking about US foreign policy then Linguistics.

          • ScottLoar

            I accept your opinion that N. Chomsky’s transformational grammar may be contradicted in part (the difference between “then” and “than” is not, however) but he’s still a political crazy out of his depth about US foreign policy.

          • BiffyClanger

            Well appears to be talking sense to your average European audience. Which particular part of his assessment of US foreign policy do you disagree with most then? I am genuinely curios. As most American friends either agree or think he is a looney toon.

          • ScottLoar

            Why not declare your opinion of US foreign policy, its intent and conduct? That way we don’t have to maneuver around interpretations and discussions of N. Chomsky’s ruminations.

          • BiffyClanger

            That assertion is wrong because?

          • ScottLoar

            I’ll indulge you.

            Imperialism. I do not construe it as the overly used and abused epithet the word has become, but a definition, viz. “the policy of extending a nation’s authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations” which definition is pretty standard and will do.

            What lands outside the 50 united states does the US now covet, control or is acquiring? What lands outside the 50 united states does the US exercise magisterial authority?

            Puerto Rico is a commonwealth, a territory administered by US officials, mostly (all?) local Puerto Ricans as is the governor, and in this year’s referendum 54% of Puerto Rican voters rejected the current status; to a separate question 61% chose statehood while 33% voted for semi-autonomy and 6% wanted independence. Most mainland Americans would just want to be rid of the place, especially if they knew how much US welfare aid pours into the islands. Puerto Ricans are US citizens but pay no income taxes and cannot vote in US elections as is common to territories.

            “Today, Guam’s official political status is that of ‘unincorporated territory of the United States,’” and its people are US citizens. I know of no other situations in which the US can be accused or
            proven to exercise administrative authority. The Philippines was the sole example of a colony, pure and simple, but became independent shortly after the delay occasioned by WWII and the
            Japanese occupation.

            Economic hegemony: Since WWII the US is regarded as the
            pre-eminent economic power in the world, but the economic rise of other nations since then is not despite the US but invariably because of US support either in the form of an open market (not always reciprocated by the exporting country), most favoured nation status, or direct foreign economic aid. I welcome examples to the contrary. The embargo against Cuba and sometimes against other states is punitive, not an attempt at economic hegemony. Or, in the tradition of imperial powers, which countries have been taxed to support the US imperialist? Which countries pay taxes to the US? Which country now renders coin unto the American Caesar?

            Political hegemony: This cannot be construed as US influence nor as a favoured disposition towards the US, but nothing less than outright domination by the US reducing a country to a subject state. Which nations are compelled to sacrifice their national interests at the behest of the US? Even in defeat, which nations were compelled to become a subject state of the US? Which countries have ceded national sovereignty to the US or, the US has demanded which countries cede their sovereignty to the US? Panama? The Panama Canal was a US construction leased from the country; the country of Panama was not administered by the US.

            Defeated Germany, Japan, Iraq? The US acted as quickly as possible to restore self-governance; yes, self-governance sympathetic to the US but by any practicable definition self-serving and independent of the US.

            Now will you agree that N. Chomsky’s libel of the US as imperialist is a caricature at best and wrong at most?

          • BiffyClanger

            First of all the definition of Imperialism is not static. Reducing countries to a subject state? Are you living in the 19th century? Are you aware of ‘Empire’ by Hardt and Negri? They specifically talk about transition of ‘Modern’ phenomenon of Imperialism.

            Hell even conservatives like Max Boot (I remember the name because it is >_<) said something like the American Imperialism is the greatest force for good… So does the British historian Niall Ferguson who also believe the Empire is a force for good.

            You do realise many people not just academics consider Military bases the modern form of Colonies right? Ironically the Roman empire used similar tactics in its empire building process by placing strategic garrisons in Britony but for a time allowed local pro Roman leaders to rule…

            Your answer is particularly interesting because in Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media by Chomsky went to length to explain the denial of imperialism are the result of a systematic strategy of propaganda, to "manufacture opinion". In fact exactly the opinion you are expressing :). Did you read it? What do you think?

          • ScottLoar

            “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” – Through the Looking Glass, Chap. 6

            The “definition of imperialism is not static” which is a convenience to you or anyone else accusing the US of imperialism, even as my argument adhered to a standard English dictionary definition. And no, I did not read Manufacturing Consent but to accuse the US of a systematic strategy of propaganda to “manufacture opinion” is worthy of Chomsky’s absurdities. Who, pray tell, is the agency responsible for this manufacture. What, pray tell, is the agent to propagandize? And in the face of scores of Hollywood movies portraying the US as an evil force, in the face of a free press reporting all details of government conduct, in the face of rafts of public opinions exercised in print and on the internet and by – well, pick any way – you say that my denial of imperialism is not the result of reasoned opinion but the consequence of manipulation. I’m just too dumb to know it, or to disingenuous to admit it, yeah?

            To conflate military bases with colonies is just a foolish stretch to support your definition of imperialism. Military bases – well, why not one like the former Subic Bay or the base in Okinawa? – are good examples? Subic Bay closed by the Philippines government and Okinawa still hanging in by a fingernail. American air bases in Spain (is there one left?), Germany, the patriot missile batteries being set up in Turkey, are the direct consequence of imperialism, done without as much as a by-your-leave from the countries?

            Then on to control of Iraqi oil which you are sure is the causus belli of imperial America’s invasion of Iraq. Please, go to the U.S. Energy Information Administration to learn the past and present sources of US oil imports; I can’t be obliged to do all your homework. And this, “You think Iraqi oil is now going to benefit the Iraqi people after something like 300,000 dead children???” I don’t know how many Iraqi children have died – you throw a figure loosely without citation – and I’m sure that somewhere in that ire you have a point but – well, what are you trying to say? Just say it, man.

            And, no, I haven’t read Hardt and Negri but are you genuinely interested in a list of my recent readings? Do you want to address my reasoning, my arguments, or let a reading list do the talking for you?

          • BiffyClanger

            Scott you seem like a reasonable chap, and I expected better of you. Since WWI and WWII have reshaped geopolitical landscapes and introduced a paradigm shift in the way empires work. Do your reading list pertain to this very specific condition? Very few definitions remain static. Your definition of Imperialism reminds me of how Mitt got shafted by Obama about the number of Ships in the Navy argument, well, same logic applies. Put down the dictionary and wake up.

            Regarding Chomsky I will not discuss his accusations of manufacturing consent with you if you haven’t read his work (seriously what sort of informed discussion do you expect). For the simple reason that a lot of reasoning is very nuanced and based on facts and observations, NOT opinions. You can dispute the facts that he uses and the sources but NOT when you don’t even know what they are. In his book lays the reason why I don’t address your arguments because they are all preempted by the book.

            The death figure was admittedly off the top of my head but a little digging reveals that the true figure is shockingly high. In the 600,000 region as conducted by British medical Journal Lancet, one of the oldest and most respected medical journals in the world. They have conducted door to door sampling to get their data. Being a youthful developing country would mean number of child fatality relative in the region of my original estimation.

            As to the number of Military bases there are mannnnnnnny:
            http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA12Df01.html

            over 1000 according to some in this article.

            I cringe at the fact you think it is Hollywood who portray US as an evil force :). Hollywood is one of the last people to jump onboard the bandwagon in fact, and only begrudgingly did so thanks to Viet Vets like Oliver Stone. The information gulf is astounding. I do not wish to pursue this argument further as this is clearly getting us nowhere.

          • ScottLoar

            What you want is a book review.

          • BiffyClanger

            That is not my view but it is a common on in Europe.

  • Germandude

    How come I have the feeling that besides his movies, he is also playing a “role” in real life? What’s his agenda? Going into politics? Becoming a board member of a huge company?

  • elizabeth

    Now he is coming clean about his affair, willing his HKD 2 billion only to his wife and none for his kids, showing impartiality to both the legitimate and illegitimate to squash gossip, extolling the virtue of (his wife’s) forgiveness, doing charity work, etc. Pretty obvious he is into something big time politically.

    ‘Milk is for babies. When you grow up you have to drink beer.’

    – Arnold Schwarzenegger

    • linette lee

      Jacky chan he does love China. He is proud of China. Whenever there are natural disasters he does charity work. Like Sichuan Earthquake he went to sichuan to help the victims and gave them food and money. Jacky did so many charity work to help china people who’s in need due to natural disaster, but then he support the china communist party? Why? Can’t he not see how evil the china gov’t system is? Look how hard it is to get the charity money donated by the hk people for the china chinese victims. The china gov’t officials steal charity money. How can he tell the hk people not to go against the china gov’t when they are so corrupted?
      Hk people don’t want their hk gov’t to become like china gov’t. Hk people want the china gov’t to become more like the hk gov’t.

      • elizabeth

        If you were the government, who would you listen to? Someone who helps, by example, to improve things putting his money where his mouth is, or an incessant complainer with no solutions or actions. Walk the talk, so to speak.

        The last I remember, Hongkongers were protesting against having Mainland babies being born on Hongkong soil. That’s quite a lot of charity compared to Jackie Chan’s.

        • BiffyClanger

          Well said.

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/ MrT

    HaHaHa Hong Bong piggy eyed people get a slap down!
    Not before time either stck up cnts.
    They got bigger problems on their doorsteps.

  • Daniel Tynan

    A man who enjoyed all the excesses of the American Dream and Hollywood. . then tells his country people that they should not have the same rights and dreams of freedom and independance? Hypocrite.

    • exink

      He said a similar thing a few years ago. he said something about the Chinese people “need to be controlled”.

  • linette lee

    Hong kong people protest so much because the hk gov’t is powerless in front of China gov’t. They need to take matters into their own hand protecting their land and civil rights. Just recently china gov’t tried to impose brainwash national education on hk public school system trying to brainwash the young hk generation. HK gov’t didn’t refuse, but the people of hong kong opposed. Catholic Church, the Christian denominations, parents and even publishers, teachers in Hong Kong all opposed this education reform imposed on the Hk school system by china government. They set up protest with more than tens of thousands marched down and surrounded the hk gov’t building before they reach any agreement. They blocked the reform.

    So maybe MR. Jacky Chan hate protest and love to have his kids take the national education. He should really go live in China and give up his HK ID.

    • elizabeth

      He is not against protests, but ‘protesting everything’.

      If you are that unhappy about everything the govt. does, step up to the challenge and take over the reins. That’s what he means.

      Instead of jumping on the bandwagon and making a fuss over every bump on the road, be the one to lead and handle those bumps…if you can do a better job.

      • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

        The way that you are explaining it, Jackie is saying that Hong Kong should be a free democracy in which any HK citizen has the right to lead his/her “special adminstration” and become its de facto leader, probably determined in a freely held election.

        Gimmie Jackie!

        • elizabeth

          Yeah, if they have enough guts to lead…the change.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            So: Jackie is taunting Hong Kong protestors that they don’t have the courage to make change, and yet chastise them for being too bold for “protesting everyday”.

            It’s tough being Jackie; the world doesn’t make any sense, and diamond thieves are chasing you everyday.

          • elizabeth

            Jackie said ‘bold’?

            I believe these are his exact words:

            “Whoever amongst you has what it takes can come govern, but you guys don’t have it in you, and all you do is criticize.”

            My interpretation – Stop talking and do some walking if you have legs that aren’t too wobbly.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            No. He did not say those words. He wasn’t speaking in English. That is a translation. Jackie Chan is Chinese (seriously). You are quoting someone’s words that have been translated from another language without putting those words in the context of the interview he made; furthermore, he said a bunch of things that didn’t make it into the Western press.

            This isn’t the whole interview, but breaks it down and gives a few movie references:
            http://sinopathic.com/jackie-the-lacky-do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/

      • Rick

        How exactly do you “take the reigns” if you’re not related to the reigns?

  • Observer

    People with money and success should never try to preach to the “common folk”, they live very different lives.
    With all your money, you could access the best education, live in a nice home(s), travel the world, eat the best food and enjoy more freedom. Most people have to fight for these opportunities. i’m surprised at you Jackie!

    • elizabeth

      He is a son of refugees, someone who has gone through thick and thin to be successful. Maybe he has forgotten his roots, or maybe he knows all too well that protests alone do not a great man make.

      • exink

        he’s one of the very few who got a “lucky break”. I’m sure that many of his old friends from the orphanage (or theatre) were not so lucky and were left behind.
        In countries where there are no elections and freedom of speech is highly restricted, demonstrations are the best ways to get your voices heard (I’m referring here to the mainland’s attempt to increase control/influence in Hong Kong, and what it could mean to the people).

        • elizabeth

          All the more, they should address the problem at the root…be their own leader. What puzzles me is why they complain and expect China to do something about it when they do not accept her leadership. Go independent. Migrate to UK or go be one of the CCP and make a difference.

          Protests are reactive-defensive. They only address the symptoms.

          • exink

            But unless you can come up with a cure, it’s the best they can do to relieve the pain

          • elizabeth

            The cure is already there. It’s a question of whether they want the pill or prefer to moan and groan until it hopefully disappears.

          • exink

            “go Independence” – lol, right, the Chinese are trying to GAIN territories through multiple disputes with other countries, as if they would ever allow Hong Kong to become independent.

            “Migrate to UK” – (why UK of all places?) is just running away, not a cure.

            “be one of the CCP” – is not that easy and requires swearing loyalty to them. If you join and CCP starts demanding changes and loosening control of censorship, you won’t be a member for very long.

          • elizabeth

            The CIS of former USSR are a fine example of possibilities for people with real guts. Of course, ‘lol’ and protesting alone will not do.

            Migration to the UK is a better option that temporary pain relieve.

            As for being one of the CCP, you will need people of character to make change, not wimps who give up as soon as one door closes.

            Protesting is of course the safest and most comfortable option. You get to keep your cushy lifestyle and call others locusts from your cool ivory towers. But it gets a little to far when these protesters carry their antics overseas, even demanding that other countries bow to their demands.

          • BiffyClanger

            The way CPC works is that there are many factions, OH MY GOD, hold that thought, it is just like every other large organisation. There are radical reformers and conservatives and the whole bucket load of career opportunists.

          • linette lee

            Don’t underestimate the power of the people. Protesting in huge numbers does effect the decision of the gov’t. it worked so far. The hk people protest peacefully for the past 15 yrs since the hand over back to china.

          • elizabeth

            Yes, so far…my country is peaceful without the kind of protests you have…and have been for far longer than 15 years.

            I’d say the mainland is pretty peaceful too.

          • mr.wiener

            bitching and moaning is an inalienable right. once they start clamping down on that or sending the goons around to your house at the wee hours of the morning , you know something is wrong with a system.

          • elizabeth

            Have no issue with the bitching and moaning as long as they don’t keep me awake in the wee hours of the morning and aren’t bitching about me. When someone starts moaning in my backyard and goons are nowhere to be found, I worry about the system.

        • elizabeth

          A lucky break is just that – a break. What happens afterward is the result of hard work and perseverance, risk-taking and picking up after a hard fall…things that the faint-hearted would rather not go through compared. Protesting is much easier by comparison.

    • exink

      He’s been critical before about (too much) freedom. He said Chinese people “need to be controlled”.

      • ASDF

        He could also mean self control against doing stupid things in public despite having the freedom to do so.

  • man of earth

    right he is – hk ppl should shut the fuck up! u aint nothing without mainland-china – go to ur masters- so called “great” britain – see how the treat u – then come back and be grateful for china – wannabe-better-ppl of hk – go crawl into ur former masters ass…

    • vincent

      What an eloquent and well thought out argument, I’m sure everyone will take your point of view very seriously indeed.

      • manofearth

        and u can go back too – lil babyface – no country is in need of u or linette – u should all be kicked out of china! : )

        • vincent

          hahaha babyface, don’t worry I’m heading back to Dubai in 2013 :D @03c0aad5677845ffcd4f0585935e358e:disqus If you get the chance travel to Malaysia or something, Penang to be specific, there are a lot of Chinese there and I’m quite sure once you get a taste of life there, you won’t come back to China :D

    • linette lee

      This one must be a party member. Definitely not people from china rural areas.
      Long live ccp!

      • manofearth

        go stick to ur masters propaganda… everyone commenting pro mr chan sure must be a ccp member -right?! – hehe pity u – please leave china – NOW

        • mr.wiener

          Everyone pro the communist party is either a member or wants to be one. Always nicer to be the screwer rather than the screwed.

  • vincent

    Well it would seem that Jackie made a few more interesting points, such as America being the most corrupt country in the world http://www.ministryoftofu.com/2012/12/the-most-corrupt-country-is-america-jackie-chans-comments-widely-panned-in-china/

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=22624249 Sean Cauffiel

    Hong Kongers should protest PRECISELY BECAUSE Hong Kong has been, heh hem, returned to China.

    His protestation that “you can come govern” is a joke. What country does he think he is talking about?

  • El Puma R.

    Jackie Chan needed wumao, they already call them a cunt in Hong Kong and now he does this… and I didn’t mention that all the products with Jackie Chan’s face on it seem to fail one way or another.

  • Madesu

    NgWell, I think he simply just wanted to say: “Hey guys, don’t be such a whiny..if you can’t do something that would give a real positive impact to solve the problems then just shut up and quietly living your ordinary life.”
    I personally find nothing wrong on what he said but surely people in HK did a lot of demonstrations not just for fun. They’re just ordinary people with ordinary ability and you can see that demonstrations were their last resort.
    So maybe Mr.Chan could try to develop some more empathy here andthinking twice before say something like that in public.

  • Jimbo

    Jackie Chan does not know shit. He should just return to his kung-fu and womanizing.

  • G$

    Asians: loving someone until said person decides to point out a flaw about them. They just can’t take criticism.

  • http://www.wirthconsulting.org/ Theodore Wirth

    Jackie Chan has physically worked harder than any US blowhard and it is recorded on film. Yet the US worships the loose lips of fat losers like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck (among many others).

    Give Jackie a break. Too many blows to the head perhaps? What is the excuse for US blowhard pundits? Rising bacon prices?

  • Anonymal

    I have this fantasy of putting him in the oven and watching him melt. Listen to his scream as he melt! “WHO AM I?! WHY AM I MELTING?!” hahahaha

  • Anonymal

    let the poor chap die in pieces! rip in pieces!

  • XuGe

    This is too bad, I enjoyed watching his movies. He should however, stick to his area of expertise which is entertainment.

    Protest can be a thorn to anyone’s side, but it is a by-product of the style of government that has been afforded to HKSAR, something he seems to have taken for granted. I’d rather know that one can still voice their opinions without reprimand than know it would be suppressed and if there was to be any truth or revelation to be told, the world would never know.

    A good point made before that he lives a very distinctive lifestyle and may not (or cannot relate) to the common folk. This is why celebrities should not issue statements as if they hold some political power, even if the mindless do following everything they say.

  • willie miller

    Jackie Chan got a set of steak knives from Marks and Spencers in exchange for some corporate work in 1994 but didn’t claim it on his tax returns. Fact.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003224583672 Mike Anderson

    Had no idea Chan was this fucking stupid. Wonder how much he was bribed by Beijing to say this?

  • Fman

    At least he “used to be” cool… now he is a full out retard…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003224583672 Mike Anderson

    The reason HK’ers protest so much is because they have reason to. You (Mr. Chan) would be right there with them if you were slowly losing your identity to the worst country on Earth.

  • Gay Orc

    “The Tuxedo” staring Jackie Chan is the greatest film ever made. Following its release I vowed to uphold and protect all things Jackie until my dieing breath! Jackie, I support you. I am your spiritual illigitimate son. Toss out those freedom loving Hong Kong Trash, use your kung fu to destroy their precious “values” and things. P.S. can’t wait for rush hour 4

  • Blue

    Manofearth; You call these demonstrators “traitors”, but this really depends upon your viewpoint. Patriotism is about country, not government, and Hong Kongers could just as easily accuse you of being a traitor, as you clearly blindly follow without question: therefore denying your obligation as a citizen to stand up for your rights and the rights of your fellow countrymen. Whoever said about feudal China was quite right. We are not toddlers, we are adults, so toddlers rules of posession no longer apply (“if at one point it was mine, it will always be mine”). If these infantile rules were in fact legitimate, the world would be even more screwed up than it is already.
    Be patriotic, be proud, but do it with your eyes open.
    It seems from above that you are a small minority of your countrymen. Are they all traitors also?
    Do you not want freedom of speech? If you do, you have to understand that forcing your opinion onto others is not part of the package. It’s a deal breaker.
    p.s Flinging around insults in response is not helping your cause. Try reason and logic.

  • opium

    Jackie Chan tells the truth; yes truth hurts ! I didn’t see any protests of such kind when Chris Patten was the governor? Why not protest for not having a say in the change of leader during the Brit rule? Where was your screams for democracy? why now??

  • Rick

    This isn’t the first time Jackie has spewed off propaganda. He’s got a history of it. He’s despised in Taiwan. What surprises me is that the average Chinese netizen seems to hate him now as well.

  • Shaniqua1990

    actually I agree, do something about it instead of “I da protest that someone else should solve the problem” then go home approach

  • SonofSpermcube

    “Whoever amongst you has what it takes can come govern, but you guys don’t have it in you, and all you do is criticize.”

    Wat. Hey, I think I have it in me to come govern, move over CPC, let the grown ups have a chance, amirite?

  • Mao

    Wow I’m very surprised seeing all the negative reaction. Jackie Chan is national hero. He is almost 60. He can keep his mouth shut and retire with good record. But he doesn’t care about that. What he care about is our country falling apart. These young people today very spoiled. All they know is complain. Life is about hard work, not get welfare. How will we ever defeat United States if we complain all the time? Respect your elder.

  • dim mak

    I’m surprised so many mainlanders condemn him for it
    Most HKers know JC will say and do anything for money/influence, but he’s more or less right on this one

  • trogg

    More anti China propaganda. yawn

  • elizabeth

    He is making waves again. This time, it’s about corruption. How are the Chinese reacting to that? Any plans to translate related articles, admin?

  • Hongwu

    On the other side, we can argue that those guys who complain too much are just people with some want-of western colonialism you know? people not used to the idea that hong kong is not an western colony, and it still is in denial.

    I’m not against neither supporting the govt but theres one thing to ponder.

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