The Economist Calls Ma Ying-jeou a ‘Bumbler’, Reactions

From Yahoo News Taiwan:

The Economist: Bumbler, Ma Ying-jeou. Presidential Palace: Making improvements. Netizens: So stupid he won ‘International Recognition’.

An article yesterday in the famous English magazine ‘The Economist’ titled ‘Ma the bumbler’, criticised Taiwan’s President Ma Ying-jeou. He came to power amid great expectations from the people, but after holding power for five years, the peoples’ lives haven’t improved, salaries have stagnated, housing prices have risen, and exports have declined. Ma’s support in public opinion polls is the lowest in history, barely 13%, causing the whole country to agree…Mr Ma is a useless idiot.

In response to the Economist’s criticisms, the presidential palace announced, while the domestic and foreign political economic situation has experienced big changes, the governing team will continue to review itself, as President Ma is also unsatisfied with his current achievements, that the government team is prepared to actively improve, sparing no efforts, hoping to lead Taiwan out of the hole as soon as possible, and hopes the population will keep faith and work with the government in breaking out of its difficult position.

Domestic netizens have been enthusiastically debating this issue, with some people saying Ma is so stupid he has even won ‘International Recognition’, which is also a sort of glory for Taiwan; while others have mocked that Ma has finally found his ‘place in history’; while yet others have cuttingly remarked that the Economist has leaked Taiwan’s national secret; while still others have rhetorically asked if it wouldn’t be easier to simply buy out The Economist?

Ma was once a shining star, but today his aura is gone

The Economist pointed out in the article’s subtitle: A former heart-throb loses his shine.

The article points out that, in 2008 when Ma was elected president, Taiwan’s people held great expectations, and looked forward to opening a new chapter of economic development. At the time he promised ground-breaking agreements with China to help end Taiwan’s growing economic marginalization. Ma appeared to be a fresh technocrat, who could overcome the KMT’s infighting and crony politics, providing a stark contrast to his jailed predecessor president Chen Shui-bian.

The Economists article said, five years have passed, and even though Ma was again elected to office, circumstances have drastically changed, and Ma’s public support has plummeted. According to public opinion data by TVBS, support for Ma has already fallen to a new low of 13%. ‘The country appears to agree on one thing: Mr Ma is an ineffectual bumbler.’

The article points out that, the Taiwanese people’s lives not only haven’t improved, but wages have been set back 10 years. While Ma prides himself on his cross strait exchanges and ECFA, ‘the most visible impact [of this opening] has been property speculation in anticipation of a flood of mainland money’. On the fringes of Taipei city, the average family now needs to go 40 years without eating or drinking to be able to afford purchasing a house. The number of families below the poverty line have dramatically increased. Labour unions have also taken to the streets and egged the Presidential Palace.

When he should be hard, he isn’t hard; his policies keep changing/

The Economist analysed that while Taiwan’s economy has no doubt been impacted by Europe and America, Ma’s leadership style is to blame [for the country’s current struggles]. Ma is incapable of outlining his plans, and is not hard when he needs to be hard. Even worse, his policies frequently change, unable to hold his line when met with opposition or criticism, demonstrating his indecisiveness.

This June Ma decided to raise electricity prices, and popular resentment erupted. Although Taiwan Power was losing lots of money, very few people could understand why prices were rising. Faced with angry public opinion, Ma delayed the second round of price rises originally planned for December until the next year. In addition to this problem, the public is worried that the national pension scheme will go bankrupt in 20 years.

Meanwhile, The Economist pointed out that rifts have recently appeared within the KMT. The previous Executive Yuan General secretary Sean Lin was suspected of corruption, damaging Ma’s honest image, while important figures within the party have criticized Ma as the head of beggars, suggesting that the entire country will become beggars under his leadership. Only thing is, the next election is four years away, and the people within the KMT who would vie for the presidential position won’t in the short-term oust or ‘outshine’ Ma, because after all, no one wants to take responsibility for the country’s economic problems and ruin their own reputation.

The Economist’s conclusion says it looks like Mr Ma’s policies have no signs of changing, but his public confidence ratings is draining by the day.

Comments on Facebook:

陳暉鵬:

This is Ma’s place in history~~ The most incompetent president~

潘小麥:

Can we preemptively avoid this? Don’t let him serve a full four years.

Place Lambo:

Thanks to 6,890,000 people, we’ll have to put up with this dummy for four years.

黃誌鵬:

I suddenly really miss Chen Shui-bian…

金善緣:

Me not voting for this idiot President was the smartest decision I’ve made in this life.

Yiwei Chen:

Taiwan’s shame.

Win Wind Lin

The fact that Taiwanese people are unwilling to face foreigners well help us speak!

洪駿凱:

He himself doesn’t think he’s not doing well enough, yet he collects his salary all the same…

歐育宏:

This is our country’s leader… I really feel sad for Taiwan as well as myself.

Junyi Chao:

After seeing the Presidential Palace’s response, it shows Ma will continue to be stupid.

楊龍:

He finally got the ‘place in history’ he wanted. Congratulations to him!

Do you think 笨蛋 is a good Chinese translation of the English word ‘bumbler”?

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  • vmo

    sofa

  • mr.wiener

    Who’s laughing now? Chen Shui bian will probably die in prison , but Ma will always be remembered as “The bumbler”…..nice!
    I always get a giggle out of the name “TVBS” too.

    • starting

      bvring taiwan back to the mainkland the seppo enemies are sinking faster than Nato in zimbabawe

      • lonetrey / Dan

        “Seppo”? I urbandictionary’d it, but wasn’t sure that’s right… it sounds like how Gretchen tried to make “fetch” a thing. (Mean Girls reference.)

        Hmm. A new term, I suppose. Must save that one in my vocab bank.

        • starting

          seppo= word for zimbabwe vs zulus used in context with foreigners

      • Getrealson

        Starting, Do you know that in the eyes of the rest of the world you are just an animal? slave labor to to work in the worlds factory you call CHina. Nobody takes the average chinese person seriously and usually looks on them as you would a family dog. You will always be at the mercy of the “SEPPO” and will never ever be intelligent, civilized or brave enough to fight back, so be quiet and do as your told animal or a SEPPO will smack you on the snout!

        • starting

          wrong seppo 21st century term is African based

      • Guest

        Hey get back to cleaning Bob’s pool before he with holds you aid package…..No not A.I.D.S, I meant aid and no you can’t cure it with a shower.

      • BigCAD

        Hey get back to cleaning Bob’s pool before he with holds your aid package…..No not A.I.D.S, I meant aid and no you can’t cure it with a shower.

      • mr.wiener

        Seppo you have the weirdest ideas on geo-politics.
        Why do you always change names anyway?

        • starting

          http://news.yahoo.com/egypts-political-foes-dig-heels-220258561–finance.html

          you just worry about the Egypt which has all those Chinese Karakourm fighters and American TOW missiles

          • mr.wiener

            Who needs to worry about Egypt’s Chinese fighters, the Americans? the Israelis? I’m sure they’re quaking in their boots.
            Besides which Egypt is still friendly to the west and looks to remain so despite any bumps along the way to their new govt.
            Never mind at least you have that world power Zimbabwe in your pocket.

          • starting

            1 robert mugabe, Sudan, or bahsir assad is worth more than 100 Greece nations or 100 democratic Mongolias

          • mr.wiener

            I’d check at the used by date on those guys if I were you.

    • linette lee

      I love Taiwan. :)

      • MrT

        All of Taiwan as loved you too

  • dk2020

    Sorry off topic but I want to get some Chinese folks opinion on this because the enemy was originally supposed to be Chinese. I wanted to watch Red Dawn too, the one from the 80’s was cool didn’t have anti-Russian thoughts afterwards though ..

    Here’s some racist tweets from Americans that saw Red Dawn .. IT’S A FUCKIN MOVIE and they don’t have enough sense to differentiate that from reality!!! They sound just like ignorant netizens on KB CS or JC .. SMFH ..

    http://i.imgur.com/vcYuy.png

    • donkeykong

      No big deal, there are idiots everywhere.

      Red Dawn has gotten terrible reviews and will probably quickly fade away and be forgotten.

    • where is the news?

      just type in racist words like 洋鬼子,洋垃圾 ,鬼佬,(white people)…黑鬼 (black people) 日本鬼子 (japanese),棒子 (koreans) in weibo and you will see more ignorant netizens.

      You should have seen this summer on weibo after yang rui’s 洋垃圾 comment. all the racists came out. there were guys outside english schools taking photos of any waiguoren and giving GPS locations (in hopes of starting something like a fight or altercation). one guy set up a waiguonanren go home website (but was taken down about 3 days later). Another one wanted to sell t-shirts that said 洋垃圾滚出去 (or something like that)。but it died down after a few weeks. just like the comments Red Dawn will.

      • Jennster

        yangguizi is a racist word used for the english/british if you want to be specific.

        But given China is rising, ofc they’ll think whites will be inferior just like how they thought the same for 4800 years. It’s not racist if it’s true.

        • hess

          So, then you are far inferior to me since my country is superior to yours in every aspect except size and population?

          “It’s not racist if it’s true.”

          • mr.wiener

            “It’s not racist if it’s true.” lol

            I’m tucking that little gem away.

    • vincent

      The movie as an 11% rating on RT meaning that it sucked balls, anyone who took that tripe this seriously shouldn’t procreate and pollute the gene pool.

    • linette lee

      Didn’t they make a red dawn movie where the enemy was Russian? That was when Russia gov’t and USA gov’thad conflict. Now it’s north Korea not the Chinese. Where you get the chinese from?

      You will more likely now to see hollywood movies where the enemy is middle east and north korea. Like it used to be Russia.

      Those people are racists no matter they watched red dawn or not. Don’t waste energy on them. They are like that because they are ignorant. I don’t take them too seriously if I were you. They are most likely some rednecks living in some small towns and never ride a subway in their life before or used an apple iphone or ipad. They never step foot into skyscrappers or used elevators. They are just “farm” people or country people that like country music like garth brooks….hahhahhahah…lol. That’s their hiphop music. Poor ignorant people. They need to get out and go outside into the world more. Most people in the world speak two languages. These rednecks can barely spell English.

      • vincent

        It was originally supposed to have Chinese antagonists but they decided to change them to North Koreans instead http://www.worldtvpc.com/blog/red-dawn-remake-changed-to-avoid-red-mist-from-china/

      • dk2020

        actually they’re mostly everyday white kids that live in the suburbs in upstate new york.

        • linette lee

          upstate new york is pretty “country” I tell you. Those are country people, not city folks. They have deers and raccoons running loose. Not like big cities around the world. In NYC you see these upstate country folks touring around amazed by subways and skyscrapers taking pictures….hahaha…and NYC have really old ugly skyscrapers. I can’t imagine these country folks go to shanghai or Hong kong and surrounded by thousands of skyscrapers 70 floors and up. They will be so overwhelmed. These rednecks really need to get out more to see the world.

          • MrT

            Hong Kong is full of animals running wild, its a big open zoo for interbreeds and criminals from all over the world!

          • linette lee

            hahaha….all men are created equal. Nothing wrong with interbreed.

    • wacky

      didnt they change it already to north korean invasion instead of chinese one? well they dont want to lose the chinese market for sure

    • 3ayo

      The trailer looked dumb, the idea was dumb, and so put two and two together and the movie is dumb.

      • dk2020

        well yeah i’m definitely going to boycott this piece of shit flick ..

    • Jennster

      most Chinese aren’t that interested in yanks/seppos.
      on topic: is that why there are >1 million taiwanese in shanghai ALONE…

      • dk2020

        smh .. I forgot the Chinese aren’t really unified .. ABC’s are still your people.

        • Jennster

          We may have regional fights but it is nothing serious. However, i admit the PRC Chinese aren’t too big on ABCs but more on overseas Chinese migrants.
          Also, just like Hong Kong/Taiwan citizens do not think the are Chinese based on communism/democracy devide, the PRC Chinese also regard them as foreign.

          • hess

            “We may have regional fights but it is nothing serious.”
            The people I know here always goes on about how people from this province are good people, but people from that province are all thieves and murderers, people from that other province are all drunkards, people from that province and so on and so on.
            When you don’t hate on foreigners, you hate on your own people. And thats fact.

          • Jennster

            That’s exactly what I am talking about. It’s the same in USA because the country is continent sized. However PRC Chinese all call ourselves Chinese despite some stereotyping between regions.

  • donkeykong

    At least the Taiwanese are free to criticize their leaders…….

    • wacky

      yeah the least is the best they can get, stupid democracy

      • Kung

        yeah here in Taiwan it’s democrazy

        • wacky

          and that is why there were only 2 options this bumbler and the other bumbler

          • mr.wiener

            Tweedldum or Tweedledummer, but it means at least you don’t get stuck with a a Stalin.

          • wacky

            but even stalin was not a bumbler

          • kung

            The democracy here in Taiwan is immature.

          • wacky

            the mature democracy in america is even crazier

          • kung

            well, I have little idea what Murica is doing.

          • wacky

            just look at the presidential campaign adds

        • wacky

          so democracy means freedom to choose this bumbler or the other bumbler?

      • vincent

        If you screen name is anything to go by, your opinions are those of a madman.

        • wacky

          i went crazy after watching the western media

    • Brett

      The Chinese are free to criticize Taiwan’s leaders too. ;)

    • MrT

      Time to let the motherland take over.

      • mr.wiener

        What rough beast is this that slouches towards Beijing waiting to be born?

    • starting

      which means as much squat as the texans criticizing Obama

  • vincent
    • Gay Azn Boi

      Dude, that guy is fucking gross. He looks like Quasimodo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

      • vincent

        Ugh tell me about it , he’s got a face only a mother would love or maybe in his case an exception has to be made hahaha

        • Jennster

          that guy has down syndrome for sure.

          There is a chinese saying: don’t let a guy have too much money and that kind of thing happens.

          i also don’t quite understand sichuan girls. supposely the best looking in china with the best personalities, but one of the most easiest as well.

          • Gay Azn Boi

            I’m from Sichuan (Chengdu to be precise), and girls from Chengdu and Chongqing are widely known to be hot (figuratively and literally). Most are good looking, though they can be very hot-tempered (very likely caused by their love for hot pot, which is extremely popular in Sichuan).

            I’m gay, so they don’t do anything for me.

          • Zappa Frank

            i don’t know, i’ve been in sichuan and chongqing many times, i know a lot of girls from there.. they are shorter than normals chinese, but for westeners standar i don’t think they are better than other chinese girls.. anyway i like a lot the sichuan province.. chengdu in particular..

          • Gay Azn Boi

            Yeah you’re right. To Westerners, a Chinese girl is a Chinese girl. They don’t care what part of China she’s from.

          • MrT

            You got to watch out for that chilli up the bum hole, could ruin your day

  • linette lee

    The economy is bad overall around the world. People think their presidents are human with special power. Look how they blame obama and Ma on everything. I think the presidents are doing their best. Taiwan and USA is not so bad compare to europe. I mean look at Greece. People commit suicide the economy is so bad.

    • wacky

      just look at the poll all over the world and it is not a surprise if many are not happy with the government but why did they elect them in the first place? the fact is most people are ignorant about the politic and choose their leaders based on usual predictable pattern ( x place will vote for ? party and people from y are likely to vote for & party) so regardless of the candidate they will vote for what they usually vote for in every election.

      • MrT

        yea so better to have a stable long term government in, then all the bullshit to get reelected by people who know nothing but the brainwashing media machine who tell them who to vote for.
        Really whats the point only ever a couple of of crap governments on offer, when ever the people get the urge to rebel, they just change the government out to pacify them, what bullshit.
        At least with no choice of government they know any rebellion is the big downfall for all, this is why they do a better job.
        Time the rest of the world woke up

        • wacky

          i think the real issue today is about good governance vs bad governance not about democracy vs something else. there are plenty of misleading argument about democracy because people tend to see western europe and US as the prime example forgetting that most of the democratic countries all over the world are still poor dirt peasant populated country

        • Flambart Photography

          Government cannot be stable or “long” without legitimacy, and legitimacy comes from the people through elections and a solid democratic system with three powers, branches. The “media machine” is, fortunately – when it’s transparent, independent and free – the fourth power, all contributing to a stable governance. Tyranny is a never a solution. Time for the rest of the world (where the sun of democracy does not yet shine) to wake up.

          • Jennster

            True democracy does not put down another country because they use a different system. The Chinese, despite their success compared to India, do not put down the Indian ‘democratic’ system, because we accept difference. The Chinese just merely continued their version of rule from ancient times. The western system simply does not suit our civilisation, and based on our history one han chinese dynasty could last 200-300 years before collapse. We still also respect Confucian thoughts.

            I am assuming you are in my country (from your youtube account) finding work because your country Spain is poor. Therefore, you live and abide by our rules and culture, including the lack of an election/voting based system, or leave. If you love Hong Kong, you wouldn’t be here in Shanghai sucking up its resources (hence now the visa tightening on foreigners) like locusts.

          • Flambart Photography

            .

          • MrT

            Journalists get their jobs based on their political views which is implanted into them at media college. Any journalist outside the systems views get pushed out and ridiculed.

            Any one talking about radical changes in governance are hit with a big hammer destroyed by the press.

            Censorship , well you only got to look at the BBC history on that, its that heavy you don’t even know what they have censored .

            Go back to the Thatcher regime to see that operation.

            Human rights, they been abused in the UK and by the UK else where, again every one got the blinkers on or simply don’t know about it.

            Governments in the UK have been voted in because the information as been hidden by the press under the order of the governments.

            I can tell you,many people in the UK would not have voted for the only 3 had they known the truth over the past 40 years.

            But the information is suppressed for many years then leaked out slowly till it can no longer cause harm and of course to blame past governments.

            There is nothing right, good or truthful about western style governance.

            Nor is it good that this platform is used by government agencies to push their political agenda

    • Germandude

      “Taiwan and USA is not so bad compare to europe.” Uh huh. If you compare US to Europe, don’t forget that you are comparing a single country towards a whole continent.

      • hess

        Considering how big the US is i think it’s fair to compare it to the EU (not the European continent though).
        And if anyones to blame for the crisis in southern Europe its not their leaders, its the lazy asstwats that lives there and take out benifits from the government that they dont deserve

        • Germandude

          Nope, I disagree. Size wise EU and US are pretty much the same, correct. However, we are talking about 1 nation (US) and several nations (EU).
          While California and the people there might be pretty differnt than the people from South-Carolina, their government and laws are (pretty much) the same. Now for Europe, I think it’s fair to say that for example the Italian system is quite different from the German. The French is different from the Greek and so on. After all I have the feeling that the European Union is creating more nationalists than European citizens.

          Personally I admit that I would rather have a Union between GER, NL, SWE, DEN, FIN, NOR and AUT for that there are more similarities between those than for example between GER, ITA, ESP and FRA.

          Keep in mind that I am refering to culture not race.

          • hess

            You could also talk about several states vs several states.

            Anyways, I would also like to have union with the same countries that you mentioned, simply because of the economic benifits

          • Zappa Frank

            i don’t think so, for sure if we think about economy is true, more in commone, but on the other side i don’t think you can say that germans – french – italians- spanish don’t share anything…of course you share more with other dutch, but still we have a long history together, yes also with wars and so on, but my opinion is that in the end we cannot deny that we’re all europeans, that there is indeed a common background

          • Germandude

            Of course there is a common background between all Europeans. However, there are fundamental differences in many aspects. If you make it easy, you ask a French, a Spanish, an Italian and a German to define Socialism and you give each of them 1 minute to let them explain. They will pretty much come up with roughly the same idea.
            Now ask them the same and give them 1 hour to talk about it and you will see that there are huge differences in each person’s position.

            And to be honest, if Europe was run according to the French’s idea or the Italian idea, I would immigrate to another part of the world.

          • Zappa Frank

            sincerelly, if you give one hour to any person, even inside the same family, you’ll get a very different answer.
            what is the french and italian idea? because i still have to understand the difference with the german one. i’m sure the goal is the same.. just different method that don’t come necessary from different idea per se, but come from a different economy situation.

          • Germandude

            Pff, I am not writing the essay now ;-)

            Remember when Germany was having its “huge” crysis end of the 90’s beginning 2000’s? Germany asked France and Italy for help several times and it was refused because both nations agreed that the German economical problem was coming from the inside (too much welfare, too high wages, low cost inefficiency, too short working times and many other amusing reasons, partly true, partly not). However, France and Italy were the driving forces to refuse help while not being shy on giving advices on what has to be done.
            Germany went through a process of reforms that hurt a lot of people and despite I am not a fan of Schroeder, I think he implemented the last accountable good change of the last 30 years. Merkel today is gaining the resulting benefits, not shy on telling that it’s her achievement.

            Now France and Italy face difficulties and especially in the French situation, it is absolutely inappropriate to tell Europe what has to be done (it’s mostly not their money anyways) and as soon as it comes to hurting changes in their own economy, they totally block any compromise. I think it’s quite understandable that Germany is wondering how come they shall play firefighter all the time while no one really showed up when the own house was burning.

          • dfrog

            So much rubbish!
            Germany’s economy is export driven and if you go and check the charts for the past 10 years, those exports to U.S. did not grow, neither did their exports to other European countries, or even to almost any other country in the world except China.

            German economy simply benefited from

            1 – Exports of cars and engineering projects to china specially after the 2008 stimulus to recover the economy from the abyss in which banks like Deutsche pushed it into… talk about moral hazard.
            2 – having its financial sector bailed out from the subprime crisis by the ECB and FED whereas other countries were slowly subjected to a credit crunch suffocating their companies and throwing them into a deep recession.

            Go and check the charts they dont lie.

            Spanish debt is lower than Germany’s despite all the nazi propaganda! In fact until the onset of the subprime crisis even Portuguese debt was lower than Germany’s its unbelievable the eay Germany controls the ECB to serve as German ATM and then complain of the moral hazard it would be to let it assist countries like Spain or Portugal.

            This crisis is being prolonged more than anything by the Nazi ideology of many Germans like the current fuehrer and her Bundesbank henchman

          • dfrog

            and you wouldn’t be missed

          • Germandude

            In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: “That was an excellent troll you posted.”

          • dfrog

            aren’t you sad…

            You go on happily insulting people from other countries and you call me troll when I say you won’t be missed if you leave europe?

            Are you so retarded that you cannot see the irony?

          • dfrog

            Starting with you.. should join the Hitler youth.

          • donscarletti

            You tried it, but generally couldn’t keep the Spanish out of NL, French out of GER and Turks out of AUT. Tried it again in the 20th century but couldn’t keep the Russians out of Berlin. Waiting to see how the next Reich works out.

          • Germandude

            LOL. I am talking about a currency union. So you are the next troll whose only idea is playing the Nazi-card, or how should I understand your bullshit?

          • Guest

            aren’t you funny, you speak exactly like an ignorant neo-nazi but when people describe you accordingly you claim you are not what you behave us.. grow a spine.

            By the way, as you know way to weel, nazi ideology is alive and well in gemany so spare me your false modesty and moralism.

            The recent news out of Germany show how nazi mindset is impregnated in the police, secret information services all the way to the political level, or have you already forgot about the recent high level cover up related to the nazi murders of 9 foreign descents?Its time to send this ridiculous taboo, you may have different shades of nazi ideology in German society but the fact is that you would not have so many extremely violent (some deadly) incidents against foreigners if a good portion of Germans were not fuck1ng nazi.

            So assume what you are and stop pretending!

          • mr.wiener

            I’m going to cite Godwin’s law and the argumentative fallacy of Reductio ad Hitlerum against Guest, dfrog and anyone else using the nazi card.
            It has been an informative and lively debate up until now. Cool your jets gentlemen.

          • Germandude

            Oh I am cool. I am so cool that I would even give you the link to my facebook profile where you can see many pictures of me and my Nazi friends. You would be laughing your ass off.

          • mr.wiener

            Dunno about that. Where I’m at they think the swastika is the sign outside a buddist restaurant.

          • Germandude

            Then you are safe. As long as you are not in a secret Nazi meeting where they don’t appreciate to see non-Arians, my facebook profile will be save for you. lmao

          • dfrog

            It’s interesting how your posts went from prejudice and mockery towards certain non-arian people to the current defensive tone

          • dfrog

            swastika has existed for thousands of years, Germans just managed to associate it with horror in the west.

          • mr.wiener

            uh…yeh, I already knew that mate.

          • dfrog

            No one cares about your life, this is a forum.

            Your posts speak for themselves.

          • dfrog

            fuck it man, can you get any more pretentious and pedantic?

          • mr.wiener

            I could try….Can you be my Jedi master?

          • dfrog

            you have ventured yourself far too much into the dark side

          • dfrog

            aren’t you funny, you speak exactly like an ignorant neo-nazi but when people describe you accordingly you claim you are not what you behave as.. grow a spine, at least own up to what you say.

            By the way, as you know way to well, nazi ideology is alive and kicking in Germany so spare me your false modesty and moralism.

            The recent news out of Germany show how nazi mindset is impregnated in the police, secret information services all the way to the political level, or have you already forgot about the recent high level cover up related to the nazi murders of 9 foreign descendents?

            Its time to get rid of this ridiculous taboo, nazism is back in Germany, this taboo around the word will only help it flourish further as Germans do not have to deal with what their country has become.

            There may have different shades of nazi ideology, form those who murder foreigners, to those who cover up, to those little spineless cowards who do not admit it but believe they are superior, to the ordinary older folks who still remember how Germans went on to murder and rob people of other countries until they had to be taught a painful lesson!

            It seems the lesson has been forgotten, Germany is starting to sound more and more like japan who are no longer ashamed for having behaved as fucking psychopaths believing their are the chose race

            The fact is that you would not have so many extremely
            violent (some deadly) incidents against foreigners if a good portion of Germans were not fuck1ng little Hitlers in potential.

            The way you talk about Greece only shows your true colours you little spineless ignorant nazi.

            So once and for all assume what you are and stop pretending!

          • Germandude

            You are right. Last time I was in Germany was in summer 2011, joined by my Chinese wife. Met some of my former university classmates, one from Pakistan and one from Congo.

            Somehow my old-time Nazi school friends didn’t really endorse me to bring non-arians to our secret Nazi-conspiracy meeting. I must have gotten that whole racism thing wrong I guess.

            Luckily we had a fun meeting right afterwards where people with colored Mohak haircut could understand my change in direction.

          • dfrog

            Spare me the melodrama, your anonymous opinions in this forum are the true reflection of what you are when you are not constrained by social norms.

            Judging from what you wrote here, if you don’t feel your country should be in a union with countries in which blondies are not the majority how do you expect me to believe that you truly appreciate the company of a person originating from the Congo?

            As for your Chinese wife, you should try to explain to her why you don’t believe in a union between your country and others which do not have blonde majority.

            It cannot be economics because Spanish debt is lower than German and your banks are far more promiscuous.. so what it is the reason? your deep cultural relations with Finland?

            The sooner you come out of the closet the happier you will be.

          • Germandude

            Hahahahahaha, man you don’t know how funny it is to read your post. Dude, I am sorry, I really cannot put pictures of myself here because of anonymity reasons. I studied in the Netherlands with approx. 400 students from approx. 80 different countries. Yes, my wife is Chinese and 2 of my best friends are from Pakistan (he is an asshole by the way because he really hates Israel for religious reasons) and from Congo (a 2.05 meter 160kg guy who loves blond Dutch girls, which at times of studies was good, because we never competed for the prettiest classmate through having different tastes).

            Plus, I was living together with 3 Chinese in a shared apartment during my studies. One became my wife and the other 2 great friends. Funny people. Except that one day during student sports where a group of 20 Chinese classmates found it cool to enter the basketball court full of Morrocans, Indonesians, Dutch and Americans and greeting me and the other Dutch guy with a “Heil Hitler”, after they watched the movie “Der Untergang”. It took us some time to explain to the Morrocans that the Chinese are no Nazis.

            But enough, you are so full of hate towards Germans that you picked me out because of my name. If you followed my posts prior to our little conversation here, you would’ve noticed that I am neither against Greek people (but their governemnt) nor do I have a problem with gays, Swedes, French, Chinese, Italians, Americans, Turkish, Japanese or any other nationality. I do have a problem with people who are believing in religions however and become extremists through them. Ah, and I hate FC Schalke 04 and FC Bayern München. And I think Italian soccer is boring and I don’t like white wine, only red.

            So R.I.P. fucker or troll somebody else.

          • dfrog

            your emotional rant reminiscing on your banal silly little life shows how inflated your ego is .. you see no one gives a shit, get it?

            What you post under the cover of anonymity speaks volumes of what you truly are, and you don’t need me to tell you that.

            So don’t bother attempting to sanitize your prejudiced posts with anecdotes from your pathetic little life, just because you realised that you were not able to rationalise your prejudice when your beliefs were challenged!

          • mr.wiener

            “What you post under the cover of anonymity speaks volumes of what you truly are, and you don’t need me to tell you that.”

            …Says the guy who posts under the handle “dfrog”.
            Pot calling the kettle sooty arse dontyathink?

          • dfrog

            Please read the whole post, i couldn’t lesser if you’re posting anonymously or not, my argument is that anonymous online posts release you of social constraints which you abide by in the real world, so I find them a better reflection of your inner thoughts than any anecdote on who you lived with in university or whom you married to.
            Hence I was highlighting the hypocrisy of his answer.

            In fact I disapprove of social networks trying to feed on people’s privacy by extending their tentacles into forums like this one. And this is not just because of the privacy itself but mostly because it exposes your opinions to entities who can use it to severely punish you.

            I may not approve of what you write but I will defend your right to post it without fearing reprisals.

          • mr.wiener

            Well I read the whole post, and all the other posts….right back to the start [phew!]. Here’s what I could summerize:
            5 days ago Germandude made an offhand remark about splitting the EU into zones comprise more along cultural lines North/South.
            Donscalotti makes an offhand remark about the new reich and GD unsurprisingly gets defensive [surprised much?]
            Then you jump in like Jack the bear and start slinging accusations of the Nazi mindset of Germans and such like. GD responds sarcastically , you call him a nazi again, GD gives you more sarcasm , but also says I’m not all that, Here are the people I know, my life is all this …….aaaand you jump in again and say you don’t want to know about his pathetic life etc….nazi germany etc.
            Along the way you managed to annoy the moderator for flooding “Heil” 3 times , super witty I might add, You accuse Jennster of being a nazi [She’s Chinese], get into a argument with zappa about dockyards [his job] and posted some scare pieces about the rise of the right wing and zenophobia in Germany.
            Did I miss anything out? if so I don’t want to be reminded.
            If your last point that the anonymity of posting on the net brings out a persons true beliefs and inner bastardry because of the lack of self censorship imposed on us by face to face contact…I think your postings in this forum have conclusively proved this to be true.

          • Germandude

            Very good mr.wiener. Only mistake you made is the following: I don’t want the EU (European Union) to be split up. I just want the EUR (the currency) to disappear. It has been proven to be creating trouble to the continent because “weak” countries are suffering through the currency’s strong global position (exchange rate wise). A currency Union with the countries that I listed before would make more sense in my eyes.

            EVERYTHING that dfrog interpreted into my statement towards my person and my beliefs is plain wrong and would rather be funny if it wasn’t offending me. That he is surprised about me not discussing with someone entering this conversation with calling me a Nazi based on the statement I made (currency union between mentioned states), just shows that his own view seems to be very very limited.

            I can find racism and discrimination in anything if I search with the intention to find it.

            PS: this goes to dfrog: Before you throw the next insult to me, maybe you want to smoke a cigarette, breath some fresh air and reaffirm if my statement regarding the EUR has anything to do with Nazi-ideology.

            Plus, I suggest you to go to GER and get a picture of it yourself.

          • dfrog

            I shall not bother but I would appreciate your comment on this statement of yours:
            “lol mate. That one was so mean it truely deserved my +1”

          • Germandude

            Well, I like mean jokes. If that is too much for you, shouldn’t you have picked out hess for making the joke in the first place?

          • dfrog

            I did reply to him, but back to you, can you tell me whether that consists of an endorsement of racist joke towards Greek people?

          • Germandude

            Of course I think so. Do I think hess is a racist because of that joke? No. Do I hear jokes making fun of stereotypes alomost every day? Yes, I do. I hear Americans making fun about Germans, British making jokes about French. Germans making fun of Dutch, Turkish making fun of Germans… Are they often including stereotypes of nationalities or races? Yes they do. Do I think a British calling me a “Kraut”, or an American calling me a “Sauerkraut” wants to express his hate towards Germans through this? Nope. I can laugh about it. Some points are exaggerated but are true occasionally.

            See, if you think that I am a racist because of my comment towards hess’ post, I’d say that 95% of the people in the world are racists because these jokes are coming from everywhere, no matter which country, culture, status of society and what not.
            If I remember correctly Greek people nowadays like to portrait Merkel with a swastika, a moustache, in Nazi uniform or, directly make the picture of “the ugly German”. Do I call them racists for that? Should I?

          • dfrog

            Then be a little man and take my posts likewise as I having a ball with German stereotypes. It’s time for you to stop whining about being compared to a nazi as if diminishing certain foreigners was an exclusive God given right of people from your country.

          • Germandude
          • dfrog

            It’s sad how the author of that article, ignoring all basic principles of journalism, passes judgement on his foreign subject (but little on the book which was supposed to be the main topic) and attempts to depict him as a looney without even bothering to prompt him for feedback on such judgements.

            This is Spiegel’s journalism for you… worse only Handelsblatt and its openly supremacist views.

            By the way, I’ve worked with Germans for the past 10 years I don’t need second hand accounts to get to know how the majority thinks.

            The most humane humble German I met (it’s difficult to explain this concept to most Germans) was actually raised in communist Romania in a German enclave in Transylvania.. perhaps because of that he truly appreciated the freedom and open mindedness of U.S. culture spending his youth behind the iron curtain listening to smuggled American music.. not German.
            Great guy buy the way.

          • Germandude

            Ok dfrog, there are 2 replies for you. The first one, you must like, since I am only copying your exact words:

            1. “your emotional rant reminiscing on your banal silly little life shows how inflated your ego is .. you see no one gives a shit, get it?”

            2. You are still not over it, are you? You still think I am a racist or Neo-nazi, correct? Well, I tell you what. Read your posts in this blog and tell me that you don’t fit the stereotype of a simple Nazi-mind yourself. Not that I want to call you a Nazi, by no means, but you are as weak as them because you share loads of characteristics.

            Generalization
            You wrote: “By the way, I’ve worked with Germans for the past 10 years I don’t need second hand accounts to get to know how the majority thinks.”

            As if your little sample of contacts to Germans would be sufficient to judge on the people of the entire country. That’s exactly what Nazis, Racists and Fascists do the whole time. You fell for it by yourself, too blind of hate towards Germans to even realize it.

            Stereotyping
            “The americans I know all knock off from work before 5pm”. Since your experiences and impressions can be taken as a reliable source, let’s put that on all americans. You basically flip the cards the way you want until your views and beliefs fit the hand that you got in front of you.

            You wrote:”…in German society but the fact is that you would not have so many extremely violent (some deadly) incidents against foreigners if a good portion of Germans were not fuck1ng nazi.”

            Again, you are shocked (and rightfully so) about the incidents that a Nazi-terror-cell caused in Germany. However, you use this to simply project Nazi beliefs into all of German society. On another post you said that the majority of Germans is racist, while here you say “a good portion”. You are selecting the news you are reading. You read what you want in order to confirm your beliefs, that’s it. The funny thing about all that is that any Nazi-demonstration in Germany has a counter-demonstration immediately set up, where the left-wing and voters of no corner of the political spectrum are showing up. Usually there are between 50-250 Nazi-idiots and as many as 2000-20,000 counter-demonstrants. Belief me, I have been on many of them before (as part of the red wing of course).

            Simplification
            It got even sillier, when you asked how come that Spain is in trouble and not Germany since Spain’s debt was lower than Germany’s. Shall I simplify this and ask how come the US is not bankrupt yet, as its debt is about 10 times higher than Germany’s? See how foolish that is?

            You wrote: “They inmposes brutal austerity on southern European countries in echange for loans with a considerable profit for Germany, while ensuring that their bunds pay virtually 0% interest thanks to the prolonging of the crisis.”

            Free markets? Free economies? Free trade? Welcome to the fucking club… You know that chances are not low that lend out money will not be paid back, right? And you are complaining that the free market decided to grant Germany almost interest free credits? And you are complaining that Germany takes 1.5% (on average!) interest for money that potentially (!) can never be paid back, while the market price for credits that e.g. Spain is taking are how high (forgot and won’t check it out now)? 6%? An interest rate that is below the inflation rate in Germany? Are you saving your money on the bank for free? No, you don’t. And that’s probably even less risky than borrowing to Greece at the moment, is it not?

            Blind-belief
            I know that I am long behind the point of having a chance to get into a prosperous discussion with you. No matter what I will bring up, I won’t change your mind anymore for that you are full of hate towards Germany and its people. While you are not hesitating to state the following:
            “Actually in the last Greek elections, most of the electorate voted for parties which opposed the bailout agreement.”; you miss to understand that the majority of Germans also didn’t vote for Merkel. Are you using a double-standard here in order to make it fit your greater picture? What’s your argument?

            Again, I got the impression that you have never been to Germany nor do you understand what’s going on in the EU and GER as much as you actually needed to in order to come to fact-based conclusions. All that while you are not shy to state here that your little samples are drawing the general picture. I admit that my knowledge is not good enough to simply go out and say: “Ok, I figured out what’s going wrONg, here is the solution”. If I did have that knowledge, I certainly wouldn’t spit it out on chinaSmack…

            And having been close to the German left-wing for quite some time during my Punk years, let me tell you one thing. Left and Right is almost always wrong. The more you paddle to the left, the more you are drifting to the right and vice versa. It’s no secret that left-wing and right-wing are both agreeing on Israel not being a recognized state just to give you one of the easiest examples.

            I am not further discussing with you. Not because I think you are stupid or that I couldn’t take your prejudices towards me, my country or its people, but because I simply don’t see any value in discussing this online. Have done it before so many times and it leads to nothing but 2 parties even more virtually punching each others ass.

            So all I can say is that I wish you all the best for the future and I hope that you also give Germans the chance to proof that at least some of your views of them are wrong.

          • dfrog

            Tormented little fellow… you actually blasted such testament in defense of your “honor” when I didn’t even mention you in my last post… that’s not too healthy is it?

            Have you been having nightmares featuring Adolf persecuting you for not having defended the Reich as he would have wished?

            Almost feel sorry to inform you that I honestly could not force myself to read past the first whining paragraph of your desperately long grudge.

            No hard feelings. have a wonderful day!

          • dfrog

            that’s a gross oversimplification:

            1. Can you clarify which are the common cultural traits that justify that Cultural divide which you refer to?

            2. “i called him nazi”
            – Can you tell me in your own words which was Hitler’s ultimate goal?
            – You ignored his response to a racist joke:

            “lol mate. That one was so mean it truely deserved my +1”

            3. jennster’s comment was xenophobic regardless of her ethnicity

            4. Zappa was badmouthing the Greeks based on his access to statistics and third party accounts.

            Have you realised that it has now become normal to bash Greeks without even bothering to provide facts? Most of the individuals you mentioned have done so.
            And that words like PIGS have become standard vocabulary?

            The fact is that they have been subjected to humiliation and/or impoverishment for 6 consecutive years.

            And whenever anyone points out at the similarities between Merkel and the 3rd reich whose doctrine blamed non-arians for all economical problems (forgetting German banks were huge delinquents in the subprime crisis and subsequently leeched the ECB), then and only then, all hell breaks loose and I’m singled out as offensive, troll, boorish, etc etc?

            Have you realised how it became socially acceptable to diminish southern Europeans despite

            – Iceland having been the only euro country to default on its debt?

            – spains debt being lower than germany

            – portugals debt being lower than germany until the subprime crisis

            – Italy and irelans budget defictis being lower than germany’s until the subprime crisis

            – UK being officially bankrupt from an accounting perspective

            – German and dutch banks speculating on subprime and then transferring their huge toxic debt to the ECB in exchange for cheap money

            Have you realised that prejudice against southern European workers has become so prevalent that Merkle even dares to publicly claim germans work more and retire late when compared to southerners when all available statistics of ACTUAL worked hours and retirement age prove her wrong?

            And let me add, I only developed such opinions in the past 3 years.
            Before that, perhaps wrongly, my opinion on Germany was quite different.

          • Stephan

            Same with you. You are an asshole for example.

          • donscarletti

            Well, I first brought up the Holy Roman Empire for what it’s worth.

        • Zappa Frank

          i don’t think you have a clear idea about what EU is. Just think about that, we share a common value, €, but this one have to fit as well in greece and in germany, with two completly different economies. Besides what do you know about souther europeans leaders, can you tell me some names? Ever been there?

          • hess

            I’m a citizen of the European Union (Swede) myself so I think i have small clue about what the EU is.Ever been there? Only been to Spain and Greece in the southern EU. And no, we don’t all share a common currency. And what is so different between the Greek and German economy? Except that one has a very large tourist industry. They both have(had i guess in greece case) a developed welfare system. Which also became the fall of the greek economy since they used the benifits even though they couldnt afford them

          • Zappa Frank

            let’s talk about € area, as economy problems at moment are just there… If greece and spain (partialy also italy) would still have their own currency right now due to deflation (the strenght of a money reflect the strenght of an economy) they would have made their products more competitive on world market, and it would have helped a lot their economy… with € this is not possibile anymore.

            On the same time if we suppose a “north” €, well probably it would increase its value respect to the actual one, some economist says also by 50% more, that would eventualy cause serious troubles even on north europeans economies.

            well while i’m wrting those things i’m changing my mind, you’re mostly right…in the end is true that a lot countries just spend more money than what they have, altought there are some difference even in south..look here http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-interactive-money , the blamed italy (that indeed deserve to be blamed) don’t own a single € to the EU

          • Germandude

            A common misbelief is that Greece would have been better off with keeping their own currency. The problem in Greece is more the lack of ANY substantial industry. Name me anything Greece is famous for besides tourism and olives. There is simply no industry to begin with.

            I am not so familiar with Spain so I won’t comment on that.

            Italy has the problem that the Mafia is the government. Or the government is the Mafia, whichever way you put it. Italy in my eyes has the best chances for recovery but it has to get its act together.

          • hess

            bodyhair

          • Germandude

            lol mate. That one was so mean it truely deserved my +1

          • dfrog

            Heil!

          • Germandude

            Yes Einstein. Bombard us with bullshit and when nothing else comes to mind, play the Nazi-card. That one is so old, it’s getting boring.

          • dfrog

            The saddest thing about you is that you fail to realise that you believe it is Okto insult people from other countries, but describing your beavior as waht it is.. that is wrong…

            you are just ridiculous…. sounds like a prostitute claiming to be a virgin

          • dfrog

            heil!

          • dfrog

            Heil!

          • Kai

            Stop flooding.

          • dfrog

            how many hails are considered a flood?

          • Zappa Frank

            yes you’re right, i’m afraid i can’t find a way to justify greece, jobs are mostly related to government pubblics companies..and on the other side hess is right as well, this is not just a bad economic moment, but it’s the result of years and years of bad habits with welfare system.

          • dfrog

            Can you explain why German financial system overleveraged itself on toxic subprime assets until it had to be rescued by the ECB and the Fed? Had the tax payers of europe and U.S. not resuced German’s financial system and now we would have the fuck1ng nazis begging southern europe for money

          • dfrog

            Greece has a huge shipping industry and merchant fleet.
            And its basic economics that a country with one of the largest number of wealthy tourist visits per capita, has its resources drawn to such industry don’t you think so?
            Only major exporting euro countries profit from the euro.
            If you don’t understand this you should not even post here.
            Can you explain why china devalues its currency? jeez!

          • Germandude

            Why do you ask me if you already gave the answer (or part of it) yourself?

            “Only major exporting euro countries profit from the euro.”

            “And its basic economics that a country with one of the largest number of wealthy tourist visits per capita, has its resources drawn to such industry don’t you think so”

            “If you don’t understand this you should not even post here.”

          • dfrog

            Then how do you reconcile that with this statement?

            “A common misbelief is that Greece would have been better off with keeping their own currency.”

            Don’t you think that if Greece had a weaker currency it would promote its exports and tourism industry? how’s so?
            Just imagine the number of American tourists who now consider Greece to expensive.

          • Zappa Frank

            what would be the difference in reducing salary in euros to produce with a more competitive price and let them to be reduced by the weakness of your currency? besides if greece come back to dracma debts will remain in euros.. and this will make impossible to pay them back… even worst than now.

          • dfrog

            Which would you prefer, that I cut your salary or devalue your currency?

            First, Greek salaries from public servants have already lost more than 1 third , how much is enough for you?

            You wont rest until they starve on the street or kill themselves as it happen already?

            For starters countries like Greece are not as unionised as Germany where salaries can be negotiated accross the board

            Also how do you go and lower everyone’s salaries in the private sector?

            There are 2 ways, you create mass unemployment until everyon esttart to commit suicide , checked!

            Or by increasing personal taxes and returning the money to the employers, would you like to try that? anyway, checked also!

            so what else do you recommend?Do you even know how much of their salary greeks have lost in the past few years?

            I guess they could also try the German way, import millions of foreign workers from turkey paid them peanuts and then come here to claim how much of German salaries have been cut on average for the past 10 years… freaking hypocrisy.

            Besides If salaries are cut it will be a winner take all society, those who dont feel the need to lower their fees l (e.g. doctors, banks etc) will not lower them to adjust to the new average salaries.

            The result will be the poor will get poorer the rich will get richer in relative terms.

            If currency devaluation wasn’t a major competitive advantage you would not have asian countries prospering and tall western countries (including Germany) piling massive amounts of debt, it’s as simple as that.

          • Germandude

            “it’s as simple as that”

            Yes, found a party and enlighten the world from your “This is the easy way to go, let’s do it” doctrine that no one else has thought off yet despite them being recognized experts.

          • dfrog

            Im sorry but which are these recognised experts whom you refer to? Merkel? Wolfgang Schäuble? Jens Weidmann?
            The same idiots who led Europe to the current 4 year long conundrum?

            The same idiots who allowed German financial system to meltdown and then reached for the EC and Fed piggy bank for money to save the poor Germans?

            What about trying to listen to people who actually know what they are talking about like Josef Stieglitz or Paul Krugman??

            My thoughts are not too different from theirs and guess what, they have won economics Nobel prizes amongst many other accolades

          • Germandude

            Wow, you call Merkel, Schäuble and Weidmann idiots? Finally we found a point on which we agree on.
            Just to let you know, I never voted for anything else than SPD or the Green party. Not because I am convinced of them, just because I think they are the lesser evil.

          • dfrog

            No matter how much it undermines European cohesion the fact is that Germany is now calling the shots and with a fascist cow and a self righteous monkey at the helm the Euro will sure collapse, I couldn’t believe this 2 years ago but if nothing changes, this will be unavoidable because as the situation worsens and expands to countries like France, the amount of munition required to end the crisis will grow to impossible levels.

            Europe prospered with:
            – strong unions which forced income distribution preventing capital accumulation which undermines the economy by removing money from circulation leading demand to fall behind supply triggering recessions.
            – social model which encouraged everyone to spend their disposable income back into the economy thus closing the cycle.

            What undermined this model were the ultra-low cost exports from countries where workers earn peanuts and exports are subsidised by currency devaluation.

            So in the end the western consumer was left to sustain demand whereas the jobs were dispatched to asia.
            Of course now we have an imbalance with the majority of asian consumers who feel the need save for a rainy day (except for the occasional Mercedes, audi, LV or gucci) while at the same time flooding the west with their products which were once produced in the west .

            The west’s mistake was too trade of the prosperity of the lower and middle class for the sake of multinationals profit in china market such as Volkswagens.
            We see what happened with the solar panel industry in Germany or textiles in southern Europe.

            Until european leaders wake up and realise that china and korea will slowly vaccum clean all jobs and purchasing power out of europe, and decide to do something about it, europe will just keep on piling debt to make up for the loss of revenue due to the exodus of its industry.

            Unfortunately Merkel is blind with her short term gains and cant see that its a matter of time until what happened to the German solar panel industry and high speed train manufacturers will soon happen in other industries if nothing is done suchs as preventing IP theft, currency manipulation and subsidies to price dumping.

          • Mens__ReaL

            This “Europe needs to beware of Asia and strategize appropriately” smacks more of racism than anything Germandude posted about cultural differences in Europe. Asia is a big place, with varied cultures and different consumption/production tendencies. Not all yellow/brown people are the same. Just sayin’.

          • dfrog

            no, I’m talking purely economics.

            But fair enough, although I’m not aware of many Asian countries who did not devalue their currency to subsidise their export model.

            My argument is against the distortion of international trade, mostly through currency manipulation but also through theft of intellectual property, biased internal market rules for procurement, etc.

            And by the way, this only relatively benefits the asia based worker on the short term, on the long term its obviously unsustainable and the current debt crisis in the west is an obvious symptom of this

          • Mens_ReaL

            Wasn’t aware that Chinese economic practices were the same as those of India, S. Korea, Japan, Burma, Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Nepal, Mongolia, the Maldives, UAE, East Timor, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.

            But you’re right, lumping them all together and pitting “Europe” against them for economic interests isn’t racist because you’re talking about economic conflict. If you talked about cultural differences, on the other hand, you’d be a Nazi, and I could yell “Heil” and call you “Hitler Youth” all day.

            I’m sure old Adolf NEVER used economic arguments to justify his expansionist policies to the German people.

          • dfrog

            You are adding words into my post.

            Please quote which portion of my post you are referring to as well as for which reason you disagree with it and I shall gladly provide a reply to the best of my ability.

          • Mens_ReaL

            “So in the end the western consumer was left to sustain demand whereas the jobs were dispatched to asia.Of course now we have an imbalance with the majority of asian consumers who feel the need save for a rainy day (except for the occasional Mercedes, audi, LV or gucci) while at the same time flooding the west with their products which were once produced in the west .”

            “But fair enough, although I’m not aware of many Asian countries who did not devalue their currency to subsidise their export model.”

            “My argument is against the distortion of international trade, mostly through currency manipulation but also through theft of intellectual property, biased internal market rules for procurement, etc.

            And by the way, this only relatively benefits the asia based worker on the short term, on the long term its obviously unsustainable and the current debt crisis in the west is an obvious symptom of this”

            If I could, I would highlight the attribution of all these shady economic practices to “Asia based workers” and “Asians”

          • dfrog

            sorry but where did I write that that all asian countries engage in all of those practices? And where did I ever assign any blame to the asian workers? You’re still trying to make an abusive interpretation.

            If I am to add some detail to my generalisation, then I would say that the two practices which are the most typical of a significant number of asian countries are currency manipulation and intensive use of underpaid labour in order to make their exported products/services cheaper than those produced in Europe or U.S., thus achieving GDP growth by distorting international trade prices.

            Denying this would be the equivalent to claiming the sun rises from the west.

          • Mens_ReaL

            Lol I am not interested in your economic generalizations. I frankly have not analyzed the subject to my own satisfaction to lecture others on the internet.

            My only point is that your use of “Asian countries” or “Asian workers” as shorthand for China, Korea, and maybe India (without even distinguishing between those three very different countries) is racism in the simplest meaning of the word. Especially as someone who has wasted tons of electronic ink flaming Germans for distinguishing between Northern Europe and the rest of the continent, I figured you should be more careful. Otherwise it sounds like you disapprove of Hitler not because he categorized human beings, but because he didn’t include the rest of Europe as part of his “Chosen people.”

            If that’s not what you meant, simply say so, instead of accusing others of “trying to make an abusive interpretation.” I’m not trying to prove you wrong, just telling you that you sound racist. In fact, I didn’t even say you WERE racist. :D

          • dfrog

            Dont be ridiculous please.

            You are trying to insert words into my posts to forcefully extract a conclusion which you had already made even before reading my post.

            Go and read the definition of prejudice

          • Mens_ReaL

            Lol okay, let’s just say you’re right. :D A random stranger who has never interacted with you before was going through the comments with his mind made up that a comment must be racist. He saw your innocent and intellectually sound posts and BEFORE EVEN READING IT, just decided to make that one the racist one. He then twisted your innocent words around just to force it to be the type of racism he wants to find. Surely all this is a simpler explanation than your posts actually sounded a little racist. Suck that Occam’s Razor!

            I’m just a lawyer, so I’ve never encountered this word “prejudice.” Thanks for bringing my attention to it. You are so right…it definitely applies to this situation.

          • dfrog

            with such shitty argumentation you claim yourself to be a lawyer? i pity your defendants, they must all be rotting in jail

          • mr.wiener

            Cool! You’ve found someone else to argue with.

          • dfrog

            are you jealous?

          • mr.wiener

            Nope, considering witness relocation.

          • Mens_ReaL

            :) Excellent counterpoint.

            In all honesty, I wish trials were decided by your method of “argumentation.” Then, I could win with personal attacks against opposing counsel and by calling him (or her) a Nazi. Legal research and clear, reasoned rhetoric is so boring.

            P.S. This is actually just a small point, but I am kind of a stickler for precision. In the US, we call the people whom lawyers serve “clients.” “Your defendants” in this context is actually confusing, as there are usually two parties in the adversarial trial system. If I were a prosecutor or a plaintiff’s attorney, for example, you would actually be complimenting me (i.e. I get great conviction rates, etc.) which I gather isn’t what you were trying to do. See how sometimes what you actually write is different from what you think you say?

          • anonymal

            is getting great conviction rates more important than justice? is there such thing as justice or it all depends on how good your lawyer is with words and influencing others?

          • Mens_ReaL

            In my admittedly limited experience (I am a corporate, not criminal lawyer) it really depends on what the judge wants to do. That and how well prepared you are for a case.

            The cases that actually go to trial tend to be the borderline cases, where it isn’t exactly clear what the “just” result is. Whatever the case, when insulting the argumentation abilities of someone, you don’t want to say that he is extremely successful.

          • anonymal

            no no this is not about him or anything to do with the argument, it just that when you mention that you are a lawyer I just had to ask this. It is like dealing with morality how does one decide what is moral and immoral. Certainly, there are time and situation when it can be bend.

            Kind regards,

          • Mens_ReaL

            Oh I understand that you weren’t participating in the argument. This is why I tried to give you a pretty serious answer. Believe me, no offense was taken.

            I personally think it is important to divorce the notion of “morality” from law, at least a little bit. There are some considerations for fundamental equity, but that’s only part of a legal regime. Economic efficiency is also important, as is how the law protects specific interests determined by voters. That is, laws are made by politicians, who then answer to their constituency. If the majority want corporations to pay for a defective product (rather than, say, insurance of the tax payer), the government might enact a strict liability regime. This might seem unfair to someone in the corporation whose salary has decreased, or the consumer who now has to pay more for a product, but that’s democracy.

            Lawyering actually has a lot more to do with procedure and working within fairly technical rules than with making arguments about morality. We argue for the correct interpretation of the law, rather than what is necessarily the “right thing to do.” Once again, these are some pretty broad generalizations, and there is much more nuance in actual litigation practice.

            Apologies for the wall of text. You got me talk about a subject that actually interests me. Hope that helps.

          • anonymal

            I see…. Thank you for this informative response, if I have more questions regarding this, I will ask you, hopefully you wont mind discussing with me on this matter. As obvious to you I am no lawyer.

          • Mens_ReaL

            Of course I don’t mind. Happy to dispel any myths or misinformation about the legal profession.

          • dfrog

            You seem confused.. you see this is a forum and I’ve no ambition to trial anyone or bombard them with pointless jargon of which everyone is already fed up with, courtesy of endless court based TV shows.

            And your over-stretched failed attempts to forcefully extract pre-formed conclusions with fallacious forceps, are not precise at all. But let me rephrase my post to suit your stickler fetiches

            #1 Assume the following definition from Wikipedia:

            An Argument:
            “In logic and philosophy, an argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons or evidence for accepting a particular conclusion.”

            A defendant or defender:
            “Is any party required to answer a plaintiff’s complaint in a civil lawsuit, or any party that has been formally charged or accused of violating a criminal statute.”

            #2 So argument presumes logical reasoning and/or evidence, somehow it’s not surprising that you don’t make use of such tools in your cases.. Perhaps you should considered farming instead.

            #2 I provided enough reasonable evidence to back my conclusion such as:
            – highlighting the individual’s endorsement of an offensive racist joke
            – highlighting his wishes of a blonde union in Europe and the similarities with Hitler’s agenda.

            #3 You provided zero evidence to back up your conclusions.

            #4 You said you are a lawyer, I’ve never seen prosecutors introducing themselves to others as lawyers.
            Obviously, as expected, you later confirmed the logical deduction that you are not a prosecutor.

            But fair enough, please replace the word “defendants” with “clients” and “rotting in jail” with “rotting in jail and/or bankrupt”

          • Mens_ReaL

            I already said you were right! :D You gotta learn to take a victory friend, instead of posting another rant.

            I don’t think anyone on this “forum” (which incidentally, I thought was the comment section of a China news blog) wants to read more back and forth between us. I personally am much more interested in talking about how morality figures into legal practice (see below).

            How about I make a list of concessions? You are right on every one of your points.

            1) This is a forum.
            2) Everyone has watched too much court based t.v. and are sick of it.
            3) My attempts are overstretched and fallacious.
            4) I have weird fetiches. – I actually don’t even know what that is and I will still concede it.
            4) Those are definitely definitions from Wikipedia.
            5) They aren’t jargon though, because you don’t want to “trial” people or bombard them with jargon.
            6) The Wikipedia article proves that my prior posts have neither logical reasoning nor evidence in them.
            7) I use neither of those tools in my work. I should probably be disbarred and should “considered” becoming a farmer. (No offense to farmers. I think you all are smart, but this is a concession).
            8) You definitely provided ample evidence that GermanDude is a neo-Nazi by highlighting parts of his posts.
            9) I definitely did not provide any evidence by highlighting parts of your posts.
            10) Through the power of your deductions, you deduced that I am not a prosecutor, because no prosecutors ever refer to themselves as lawyers. The people in this article are probably fake lawyers posing as US prosecutors. http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/resources/publications/washington_lawyer/january_2007/prosecutor.cfm
            11) Even though having clients in jail does not apply to a corporate lawyer in my practice, your deductive skills still managed to force me into the role of a criminal defense attorney.
            12) Even though you were completely right, you still did me the courtesy of replacing prior wording so that your comment made even MORE sense.

            Whew, that was a lot! I concede to all the above. Signed, Mens_ReaL, 12/3/2012.

          • dfrog

            Ok i appreciate the irony of your mens rea admission, that’s mildly funny.

            Anyway i have nothing against you so… enough is enough and here i rest my case. ;)

            Still I do wish more people show their indignation when certain clowns advocate unions of blonde people and make or endorse racist jokes only to immediately portray themselves as victims when someone points at the similarities between their attitude an that of a certain Adolf.

          • Mens_ReaL

            :) I don’t like Hitler either.

          • linette lee

            So sorry greece is having such a hard time. let’s hope greek recession will pass soon. No need to commit suicide. People can still live happy rich or poor.

          • Germandude

            Greece is free to leave the EURO. Somehow they don’t want to. Truely it must be the evil Germans to keep them in against their will. And the rest of the Union simply doesn’t know that they entered a pact with the devil (Germany). It all would be so easy if just dfrog were to make the choices…

          • dfrog

            Actually in the last Greek elections, most of the electorate voted for parties which opposed the bailout agreement.

            Unfortunately Greek democracy like most other European ones, favors the formation of absolute majorities in the parliament, As such the most voted party received a considerable number of extra deputies allowing it to form a pro-bailout ruling coalition.

            Had the will of the people prevailed and perhaps Greece would have already left the Euro.

          • linette lee

            Eu need to kick greece out. It’s dragging them down. I am sorry, but greek people in greece are not the hardest working people in the world. Not only me, even my greek friends say the same thing. Greek people in greece of this generation are very lay back compare to americans. I find americans in big cities are very workaholic. They work very hard and are very competitive. Work long hours and will do anything to make money even minimum wage as college students. The greek people in greece love to enjoy life and relax.

            You need people to work hard and be competitive to get ahead, to have money to spend and make the economy strong. You need daring entrepreneurs, and businesses that open 7 days a week creating jobs.

          • MrT

            Greeks down the pan because its a democratic nation and its its been corrupt as hell for a very long time.
            But what can they do? Vote a another government in to fix it, really, lmao.

          • linette lee

            You are confused about countries under democracy. Democratic nation like USA they have the right concept about gov’t system. They believed in human rights, equality for all, and equal opportunity. They have welfare, equal access to healthcare, and education. They are all good concept. However, you have lazy citizens who are abusing this “concept’ or system and this is where the problem lies. They have the right ideas and gov’t system, they just need to regulate them better.

          • MrT

            Thats what they sell you dear, keywords used over and over again like its some reward for being good.You’re a classic example of it working too.

            Every one bangs on about the Chinese government not being transparent enough, I say they very transparent and its easy to to see the big fat lies. when there told and plenty of people to spill the guts.

            Where as an American, or British government as had a very long time to perfect the lies and how they are told, not transparent, and they do this by bombarding you with conspiracies theory’s by idiots so every one gives up asking questions or trying to find the truth out.

            Dumbed down to death, you have rolled over to all the spin.

            People will never learn because they have perfected the method so you don’t question it.

          • Germandude

            “People will never learn because they have perfected the method so you don’t question it”

            Meanwhile in China:

            “Why?”
            “No why!”

          • MrT

            Tis a good method, i use it a lot now, amazing what you can get away with.
            “Why?”
            “No why!”

          • Flambart Photography

            You know MrT. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings. I love China. Mainland is my favorite place, I completely love Chinese civilization, I love China since I was a child. It’s surely my favorite people, my favorite place on earth. I have no doubts the world would be a much better place if it was more Chinese. My view is different of yours on these points: I love respect, I believe in human rights. You cannot force a plant to grow, only if you give love and care it will properly grow. Different opinions are better, together we can agree on disagree and reach consensus. Diversity, pluralism help everyone. You can read Levi Strauss, it can give you more background. I hope you feel better, more peaceful. Foreigners give money to China, foreigners help China. Everyone is a foreigner somewhere. It’s so sad that some hotels in Paris, France, don’t accept mainland tourists anymore. this is xenophobic. We are all connected, we are all people, we all know what pain and happiness feel like. In this small world of ours we should help each other and not fight, we should walk towards the light, knowledge, wisdom, we should respect every human being. Peace and love, man. It’s so sad reading this webpage, I quit, I give up. I should rather read a book. Have a nice day all of you. Love China = respect China, respect its diversity and cultural richness.

          • Jennster

            you are retarded.

            another spanish 50% unemployed rated national sucking up china/shanghai resources. how’s the new visa restriction for you going laowai.

          • linette lee

            I don’t understand how foreigners suck up china’s resources. China has welfare system? Do they have free healthcare for all? What do you mean foreigners sucking up resource? I am not attacking you. I am just curious because I am not famillar with the visa thing with foreigners and their benefits from china’s gov’t. Maybe you can tell me more.

            I’ll tell you, in USA, there are also poor immigrants who live off from usa gov’t and their taxpayers. Many are from small spanish speaking countries and middle east countries. These poor immigrants don’t pay tax to usa gov’t but they are entitled to all free health medical coverage. They get free dental care. Free food stamps. Free public school. All paid for by working american who pay tax to usa gov’t. Crazy no?

          • Jennster

            Linette, the majority of foreigners in China are english teaching american losers. quite a few are professionals who help invest in China economy and pay taxes and i think there are 4000 citizenships given to these from the entire country. they contribute a lot. which ones are sucking up resources which ones are injecting in it? get it?

          • linette lee

            But even if these are loser non qualify teachers, they just go to china to work. They get paid for their services. They are not getting free money from china gov’t. They have to work for it. And they are not getting welfare from china gov’t. They don’t get food stamps or free healthcare from china gov’t. So why are they locusts to the china gov’t and china taxpayers when they don’t get welfare benefits?

            I can understand if these foreigner teachers go to china and use free gov’t services funded by china taxpayers without paying tax, then the china chinese have the right to be angry. I really don’t see why they are locusts to the china economy.

          • hess

            ” I have no doubts the world would be a much better place if it was more Chinese.”
            hahahahahahahahaha

          • hess

            Sweden is considered the most democratic nation on earth, and also one of the least corrupt. And Greece didnt go to down the drain because of corruption in the government lrn2politics plz.

          • dfrog

            Yes it was the Greek corrupt banks which destroyed the world economy and had to be bailed out by the taxpayers of Europe.
            It is also the Greek people who pays bribes for their kids to seat in the front desk in school, who pays bribes to be attended by a doctor, who pays bribes to do any kind of business, who pays bribes for any official act, who pays bribes for virtually anything under the sun.
            Btw chinese business owners are also known to be champions of tax evasion in europe, including southern europe.

          • dfrog

            Let me tell you something, by far the most proeminent case of corruption in the last few years, not only in Greece but also in Portugal, involved a German contractor MAN Ferrostal who bribed its way accross the world.

            Also just try to google the words below and see what you get:
            corruption, Siemens, man ferrostaal, infineon, Deutsche Bank, Daimler, Volkswagen, Ratiopharm, Linde,

          • dfrog

            The americans I know all knock off from work before 5pm
            And you seem to know nothing about Greeks, go and compare the de facto working hours holidays of Germans and Greeks

          • Germandude

            It’s not about how many hours you put in, but how much you put into the hours.

          • dfrog

            I work with Germans and let me tell you, German efficiency is a a myth.

            German economy is prospering more than others for the 2 reasons:
            – 1. your private and public debt was forgiven in 1990 and 2008.
            – 2. German economy happens to focus on exports of cars and machinery which is exactly where the 2008 China mega stimulus dumped all the money thus causing demand for such items to skyrocket.

            This only works while, china continues to aggressively expand its infrastructure at rapid pace as well as its car market continues to expand rapidly.

            We all know this is temporary, its not sustainable

          • Germandude

            Correct. I also wished Germany would focus on producing electronical gadgets and financial services. That surely is the answer.

          • dfrog

            I Agree.. German financial sector made miracles by ove-leveraging themselves 40, 50, 60 times and transforming trillions of toxic assets into money making machines taxed by German government which cascaded to all germes in the shape of benefits.

            Subsequently when those assets became worthless they managed to transfer them to the hands of U.S. and Euro tax payers.
            So yes i would say your financial sector is still smarter that your corrupt engineering and car companies.

            And please don’t ty to deny German largest exporting companies have their hands dirty, I can send you links showing corruption at Siemens, Volkswagen Man, Ferrostal, Infineon etc.

          • linette lee

            I have an angry greek fellow over here.

          • dfrog

            actually I’m not greek but I have not patience for little German supremacists who don’t even realise that there was no other country receiving more bailouts than Germany in the past 100 years, last of which one in 1990 with the default on the war damages to other European nations and more recently the 2008 one in which the German financial system was only second behind the US in the amount of subprime speculation and subsequent losses.

            I’m also tired that of little supremacist Germans now finding it perfectly acceptable to mock and insult the people of other countries and then brushing aside the Nazi epithet as if it was something of the past not fitting of their current attitude, their supremacist beliefs are ingrained that they are not able to understand that their perception of “normal” is actually the same perception of “normal” of the Nazi regime.

            Its a well known fact for every German that Neo nazi violence in Germany is becoming an epidemic since 20 years ago and is a symptom of a rotten society which reveals itself in posts like that of the “germanidiotdude”.
            The only differedn ar th edifferent shades of nzaism, you have a few tenths of thousand who actively murder and persecute foreigners and then you have some like this fellow who still feel embarrassed of their nazi horror machine but has still not accepted that his mindset is exactly the same only that it has not degenerated in violence yet.

            They are so autistic that they don’t realise that Germans are behaving like in pre-WW2 times blaming economic problems on non-germans, persecuting them while at the same time you have more and more detached Greeks and people from other countries who desperate as they are are starting to hate Germans to the point where they wouldn’t mind to see another war.

          • Germandude

            Ok Joseph, as stated before. If you are playing the fucking Nazi-card again, I am actually tired of having any discussion with you as there is no substance for any communication. So forgive me if I am not going too much into details as I am not sure if it’s worth it.

            You said:
            “Its a well known fact for every German that Neo nazi violence in Germany is becoming an epidemic since 20 years ago”

            just to shortly afterwards state:
            “you have a few tenths of thousand who actively murder and persecute foreigners and then you have some like this fellow who still feel embarrassed of their nazi horror machine but has still not accepted that his mindset is exactly the same only that it has not degenerated in violence yet.”

            First of all, before bombarding me with further bullshit, decide what kind of bullshit you want to say and then type.

            So Nazi violence is becoming an epidemic since 20 years ago? Tenths of thousand who actively murder and persecute foreigners?

            And then you state that this kind of mindset has not degenerated in violence yet? I must assume you meant me personally, otherwise that wouldn’t make sense of course as it’s contradicting the shit you were typing earlier on.

            But you are right, last time I looked at Berlin, Hamburg and Frankfurt, I saw the SS marching again, shops of foreigners being shut down and so on. Then I switched off the TV (History channel was running) and went out. The picture I saw was quite different from what you are trying to make the reader here believe.

            The only point on which I agree with you in your insubstantial rant is that certain problems within the society (high costs for welfare, social security and so on) are partly blamed on foreigners. Mostly on immigrants from Turkey and other Middle-East countries.

            I don’t know where you are from (UK would be my guess) but last time I have talked with other Europeans, the concerns and complaints were the same.

            Now have a look at Europe and open your eyes. The last news I read were about Lazio Rome fans attacking Tottenham fans for racist reasons. West Ham United fans making racist gestures towards Tottenham fans, Feyenoord Rotterdam fans (known to have a huge right-wing fan group) to display racist banners.

            Now I think we don’t need to argue that the economical situation in Europe has created a desperate group of people that are easy to fall for right-wing ideology. Limiting that, like you do, on Germany is ignorant. Clean your own backyard before pointing the finger on others.

            And yes, I agree that more has to be done against racism and Nazis. Everywhere.

          • linette lee

            ………..high costs for welfare, social security and so on) are partly blamed on foreigners………….

            I don’t understand why so many western countries accept immigrants from other poorer countries, knowing they will be needing welfare. Isn’t the whole concept of immigration is to boost the economy? Bring money in. Aren’t you supposed to pick your immigrants wisely and carefully? Why would you let so many unskilled, poor foreigners coming in knowing the reason they are moving to your country is because you have welfare for the poor. That just doesn’t make sense. Thank god USA is smart with their choice of immigrants.

          • dfrog

            because a human being is not a dollar sign
            I know It may be hard to understand for money worshipers who don’t mind babies dying for the sake of our own profit.

          • linette lee

            Those people living in poor countries or war zone countries should not be popping out kids like rabbits. How many refugees you see have tons of kids living in poverty and still reproducing like rabbits. You can’t expect other people to work and pay tax so you can go and have 3 or 4 kids living on welfare without lifting a finger. Poor people shouldn’t have so many kids. One is enough if you can’t afford it.

            It’s good that a country has welfare for those who really need it, but don’t abuse it. The usa gov’t needs to regulate their welfare system and immigration better.

          • dfrog

            why don’t you stop for a moment to think on why those people have many children.
            This has always happened since the beginning of times until the development of the social state with retirement pensions and affordable healthcare.
            Before that people had as many children as possible becuase bsides not having contraception measures widely available, they saw a large number of children as an old age insurance, so that the portion of children who survived to adulthood would be able to pool resources and cater for their elders.
            Modern industrial societies have changed so much with healthcare, pensions, competition for resources, that it became a winner take all game in which only the skilled, able and healthy can prosper so it is now a better in industrial societies to have one child and dote every resources on that one to give him/ her a leg up in life and later help their elders in old age.

          • linette lee

            I really don’t care how many kids other people have. They have their own religion and culture. They can have 20 kids if they want as long as they don’t apply for welfare for their 2nd and so on….kids. I can understand people want to be parents and have one child, in hardship so apply for welfare assistant, but when you apply for welfare just to have 2 to 4 kids knowing you can’t even provide for one child that is just wrong. You can’t feel entitled thinking other people/taxpayers are responsible raising your kids for you. You as parents need to raise your own kids financially.

            I have no problem for parents who are working with only one child in hardship getting some welfare. They are trying.

          • dfrog

            you are talking about a minority, no matter how much those persons leech on the system, it would take them hundreds if not thousands of years to leech as much money from the governments as banksters did in the 2008-2010 period, so why do we keep blaming the small time crooks and rewarding the heads of the mafia?

            Besides, banking promiscuity led to a series of economic problems which even today bring misery to (ex)workers across the world.

            And what to say about the loss of tax revenue due to the collapse of the economy caused by the financial meltdown?
            And what about the debt piled to resuscitate the economy from that heart stop in 2008?

            And still, despite the epic amount of money that banks took away from the taxpayers of the world, we still prefer to blame a minority of people who “leech” because of need and forgive those who leech millions of times more, for the sake of greed.

          • Zappa Frank

            we don’t have a “wall” like in USA. our borders are full of holes and there’s a lack in EU policy about immigrants. It result that we’re full of illigal immigrants. Even when not illigals we’re still talking about to accept several thousands that usually try to escape from wars and are cosidered refugees. I don’t blame them, everyone look for a better life.

          • Guest

            im playing the fucking nazi card because everything about you screams “i’m a fucking little nazi” which did not come out of the closet yet.

          • Germandude

            Sorry, no time for you anymore. I am preparing this little conspiracy agenda. Tonight me and my Nazi-friends are meeting to burn some books. Winter is there, you know?

          • mr.wiener

            Sir, you are an ass.

          • dfrog
          • mr.wiener

            Could I find plenty of French skinheads with 30 secs of googling? Probably. This is an ad hominem attack you are making. And a rather pussy one at that.

          • dfrog

            really? you thought that throwing a misfit latin expression in the middle of an inarticulate, pointless growling wouldn’t make you sound further ridiculous?

            I provided links to pro-German publications documenting

            – polls showing 1/4 of the population openly admiting to be xenophobic

            – frequent brutal violence against foreigners on the increase

            – institutional cover ups of nazi violence

            So do yourself a favour and earn some credibility by substantiating your insinuations with facts showing that France has a problem of the same magnitude as Germany

          • mr.wiener

            “you thought that throwing a misfit latin expression in the middle of an inarticulate, pointless growling wouldn’t make you sound further ridiculous?”

            No I’d hoped it would make you realize what a boorish ass you are being.

            I think I hit a nerve with the French thing, it’s really not kind smearing the entirety of a nationality because of the actions of a few malcontents so I see no point in reminding anyone of Frances shortcomings in this area. I wish you would grant others the same courteousy.

          • dfrog

            Ok, so in sum your reply is:

            “No I don’t have any facts to substantiate my pseudo-arguments therefore I will continue to pursue my sad, overly-pretentious strategy of rhetorical diarrhea, sprinkled with a generous amount of pedantic emptiness and wrap it up with an escalation of “ad hominem” attacks which i previously condemned”

            please stop it… you remind me of those kids in high school who attracted bullies like flies towards shit.

          • mr.wiener

            “you remind me of those kids in high school who attracted bullies like flies towards shit.”

            Yep , that was me alright, until I beat up the school bully. *sigh* one week of glory then three of his friends kicked the crap out of me using an electric cattle prod [it was a rural school]. It all ended badly for them. My older brothers hunted them down and …you can guess the rest.
            If I learnt anything from the experience it was that I don’t want to be the bully or the bullied.
            Seriously, why do you have to be such a jerk?

          • dfrog

            I’m honestly sorry for what you had to go through.

            If you read my posts you would know that I’m fiercely against bullies, a fact which has not rarely got me into a considerable amount of trouble.

          • mr.wiener

            I’m good with it. I contacted some of them on facebook and can laugh about it now. It did teach me to pick my fights though :)

          • dfrog

            nice to know that you managed to overcome your predicament, emotional scars can cripple a person for life if not managed properly.

          • hess

            Do you know whats really funny? Hes calling you a nazi and says that Germany has a huge number of those (which is pure bullshit), but on the other hand Greece has a neo-nazi party in their parliament (Golden Dawn Χρυσή Αυγή) while the German parliament has none. Surely if there was as many nazis in Germany as he claims there ought to be a party in the parliament, no?

          • Germandude

            I don’t know what’s his agenda, nor do I care. He puts links here that he hasn’t read himself (I did read 5 out of his 7 before already), or he hasn’t understood.

            Since the reunification of Germany, media is constantly reporting about the 2 right wing parties (that both lost many voters in last election, which he fails to recognize/understand), any kind of Nazi demonstration or attack on foreigners by Skinheads. That’s why somebody from the outside could get a wrong impression what’s going on.

            Now on the contrary, since the 90s, media are not allowed to distinguish nationality/race of perpetrators on violence cases eventhough many are obvious.

            If dumbfrog would read, understand, think and come to logical conclusions, he would understand that the right-wing violence is only a fraction of the total violence, pretty much as high as the amount of voters the 2 right wing parties get in major elections (approx. 3%).

            Now go to any German city except in the east (like Dresden, Leipzig and Weimar) and have a look around. Who lasts longer? A guy with a mohawk haircut and boots or a bonehead?

            To explain to him the democratic system here would take too much time. Hopefully he reads your post and rethinks.

          • dfrog

            Your deflections are ridiculous, you avoid commenting on any of the facts and numbers stated in the articles from one very unsuspected German publication who often carries an arrogant editorial policy towards other countries.

            You have zero credibility.

          • mr.wiener

            ….And screaming “NAZI!!!”gives you credibility?
            What’s the weather like on your planet, cloudy with a chance of bullshit?

          • dfrog

            This is the problem with people nowadays, they emit opinions without any knowledge of what they are talking about.

            Hess, have you ever heard of the National Democratic Party and how many seats they have in state parliaments like Saxonia?

            Ask the Germanfuckerdude, I’m sure he will be able to tell you all the details on how this openly nazi party has won so many seats.

            And please use your common sense, extremism at both ends of the political spectrum is unavoidable in countries forced into prolonged impoverishment, go and read about the 30s in Europe.

            What is not normal is a country which has not been subjected to any economic distress having local parliaments with 7 or 8% of openly nazi deputies.

          • Jennster

            well germans and swedes and northern europeans tend to be proud of their own ethnicity (because their culture and appearance are unique) compared to southern and western europeans who relate to their race only. it’s like Chinese people/Japanese/Koreans who define themselves via their own ethnicity, especially han Chinese and Japanese.

          • dfrog

            just read yourself carefully:

            “germans and swedes and northern europeans tend to be proud of their own ethnicity (because their culture and appearance are unique) compared to southern and western europeans (..)

            jeez… not another fuck1ng little Hitler, grow a brain please.

          • Jennster

            no. i’m proud of my own jiangnan wuyue bloodline so i can relate.

          • dfrog

            Isn’t every people proud of their bloodline?
            The problem is when pride turns into prejudice!

          • linette lee

            hahaha…..lol….so funny.

            I am proud of my Hong kong bloodline too. I am 100% real hongkongese three generation down all the way back from my grandparents. We are descendents of Chinese pirates reside in hong kong island for more than 100 years.

          • Setesh

            that is something to be proud of, at least its a cool story to tell, a descendents of pirates.

          • Zappa Frank

            i reallly would like to find a way to justify greece as well as italy and spain, but what other guys said is substantialy true.. an example we have at pireo port.. was compleatly blocked because of too strict welfare rules, like 9 person are needed to move a crane.. endless days for sick people.. and so on.. now half port has been bought by cosco, chinese company, and all of sudden the productivity is on line with the rest of the world.. so working hours means nothing, is what you do during that time that has a meaning.. i can see the same in italians port, stevadores are supposed to work 6h every turn, but if you control the real worked time your lucky if it is 4h, rest of os lost or due to logistic problems (cranes have no trucks to deliver containers units) or due to simply lazyness…(and on this point i can see the very same in china…people that sleep at work or surf internet 80% of time)..

          • maja

            I agree, it’s difficult to understand how much responsibility is on the people’s shoulders (the infamous “national character”, whatever this means) and how much is due to infrastructural inefficiency (the equally infamous “system gone wrong”).

            either way, well, I feel the matter is much more complicated that what the comments here point to… it really seems like greece has became the perfect scapegoat for a crisis that most western countries contributed to create.

          • dfrog

            So you regularly go around southern European ports to see how employees spend their time?

          • Zappa Frank

            yes, because i work there, and for my job i can view a lot stats from italian ports… talk with captains on vessels that call almost all mediterrean ports. i see the behavior of authorities that use to come on board asking for cigarettes and alchools. You know where this happen? Greece, Spain, Italy and of course even worst in places like Ucraina.. it doesn’t happen in France for instance (as far as i know).

          • Germandude

            Freight charges to Greek ports have traditionally been uncompetitive because of high freight costs, expensive port charges and even worse, extraordinary high transportation costs via truck inside Greece, respectively the surrounding countries. Using Italian, German, Polish ports made sense for a lot of goods because costs (and bureacracy) are lower than within Greece.

            I am unable to judge workers at ports because that’s not on my scope.

          • dfrog

            You view lots of stats and hear reports from 3rd parties?

            Is this how you substantiate your accusations?
            And then you extrapolate such things from authorities asking for cigarettes?

            I hope you are joking.

            Why don’t you compare that with the cases of corruption in Volkswagen, Siemens, Infineon, ratiopharm, daimler, Man ferrostaal etc?

            Also why don’t you go and compare stats about German budget deficit with italy’s? Or German debt with spain’s?

          • linette lee

            Americans in major cities in america work very hard. They are very competitive. Always hustling.

  • andao

    TaiwanSmack

  • 3ayo

    Why was he re-elected if he is so incompetent?

    • Zappa Frank

      ever heard talk about berlusconi in italy? 15 years of gov.. re-elected 3 times, and every time was worst than before.. simply, some people are stupid..like most of italians.

      • Chabuduo Xiansheng

        He is ‘handsome’ apparently and ‘speak English very good-uh’, which will improve Taiwan’s international reputation (despite most people thinking you just said ‘Thailand’ when you say ‘Taiwan’ because Taiwan has no international reputation thanks in part to folk in the KMT like Ma who are selling Taiwan to the CCP). That’s why he was re-elected.

        In essence, people the world over vote for morons born to privilege, regardless of their abilities.

        • Germandude

          Yes, people vote for morons that were “born to privilege”. Like ex-German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. Born into a family of the working class, later becoming a retail salesperson for his first job, then study and then going to study law. Becoming a lawyer and joining a political party to finally end up as the president of Germany.

          True example of “born to privilege”.

          • Chabuduo Xiansheng

            George W Bush Jr, the aforementioned Berlusconi and Mr Ma (a simple Google search of his ‘career’ as a lawyer, the way that he got into Harvard, NTU etc tells you all you need to know about the privileges bestowed upon him), David Cameron, Romney (not elected, but millions voted for him)… Asia, Europe & North America, all with very recent examples of political ‘heavyweights’ with no discernible talent other than a rich/powerful daddy.

            Sorry, but most people are unthinking and ignorant when it comes to politics and the people they vote for.

          • Zappa Frank

            and here is the point… are we sure democracy works? as italian, in italy, i can say it doesn’t… the present government, not elected, is the frist good one in decades.. i’m not gonna say ok, i want a dictator, but what would you think if your country would have elected 3 times Berlusconi?

          • dfrog

            What about Hitler and Merkel?

          • mr.wiener

            Unless you have conclusive proof that Merkel is Hitler’s love child could you stop beating that drum? You are making yourself look foolish.

          • dfrog

            typical reaction from those who have convinced themselves they are correct without providing any relevant argumentation, you are not only foolish but unworthy of a reply.,, so consider this my first and last to you.
            If you read my comments I highlighted very clearly why Merkel is no different than Hitler in anything other level of violence.

            They both blame non-Germans for all economic problems even though Germany was royally bailed out in 2008 and 1990 not to go very far.

            They both are leaders of societies in which a large percentage of the population openly admits prejudice against foreigners.

            They both led countries in which violent attacks against foreigners are very common.

            They both believe in the superiority of the German model and German worker inclusively publicly stating falsehoods such as Germans working more than southern Europeans

            Although Gemrany is a shitty minority in the big picture of the eurozone (less than 18% of the ECB capital) they want to decide everything and block any decision which does not favour them,
            E.g. want a banking supervision which supervises most European banks except most German banks.

            They inmposes brutal austerity on southern European countries in echange for loans with a considerable profit for Germany, while ensuring that their bunds pay virtually 0% interest thanks to the prolonging of the crisis.

            They have not defended austerity for themselves or that the ECB controls inflation in 2008 when they bailed out the German financial system, and socialised the german subprime toxic assets.

            Lastly, that german cow keeps insisting on brutal austerity for southern europe knowing that such strategy has for the past 3 years only caused debt to pile up at a much faster rate thus proving itself to be completely counter productive.
            Such insistence at this point can only mean one thing, she’s more concerned about massaging the clitoris of all germans with demonstrations of arrogance and humiliation towards southern europeans for electoral purposes, than she is concerned about any debt..

          • mr.wiener

            You honestly don’t see any thing wrong with comparing Merkel to Hitler? ….There is no hope for you.

            You can disagree with the Germans all you want, but on this question to make comparisons with Hitler….I believe you do humanity a disservice. Would you compare a cabby who short changes you to Mussolini? A waiter who puts his thumb in the soup to Chairman Mao? A surly TV repairman to Stalin?

            These are the actions of overly melodramatic man-child. Not a man.

          • dfrog

            I did say they differ in the level of violence towards non-germans

          • mr.wiener

            Um.. yeh , I noticed that and I have a problem with it.

            ” no different than Hitler in anything other level of violence”. It’s like saying someone is like a vegetarian zombie.

            As defenses go, it’s like Wile. E. Coyote putting up a little umbrella at the last second to shield himself from a rockfall.

          • dfrog

            Have you heard of the series of very public suicides in Greece due to the 6 years of asphyxiating COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE austerity?
            In recent weeks you also had a couple of similar cases in spain.

      • dfrog

        Ever heard of Hitler in Germany?
        Some people are fuck1n morons

  • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

    People of are unhappy with because .

    Just put whatever you want between the ‘s and you have the world news.

    • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

      Hah, the chatbox thought I was trying to put tags in.

  • Super Bunny

    who cares!
    wish all states which are against china choose stupid leaders….

    • Jennster

      ahhhhhh smart comment :)
      finally

      • linette lee

        super bunny and jennster, why you two don’t like the taiwan gov’t system? Don’t you want the same for china? Don’t you want China gov’t to work for the china chinese and listen to their people? Don’t you want democracy and freedom and equal healthcare and equal education to ALL china chinese and not just the 400 millions urban chinese? Sure china is rich and have money, but what about equality among its own people? The urban chinese are happy and rich, but the rural chinese are treated like second class citizens. This is not good gov’t system.

        The people in taiwan or Hk may not be as rich as the urban china chinese, but they have freedom and equality. Don’t you want the same for china chinese?

        • MrT

          Your little island is a heaven for drugies, crimnals and stuck up cnts, who wants that!
          You can thank the British for the bad state of criminal activity in HK, they did the same to the UK.

          • MrT

            and piggy eye out break, i forgot that, epidemic proportions, you can blame the British army for tht.

          • linette lee

            So stay inside China and live under the china gov’t for eternity. Raise your kids under the china gov’t system. No big deal. You don’t have to go to Hk.

          • MrT

            Is very good advice LL, you,re correct HK is not a place to live now but to go shopping to make lots of money on the motherland, to get visas, to get suits made by Punkawallas and take a dump when passing through.

            You see UK used to a be a nice place to live also, but because its a democratic nation it has to leave the flood gates wide open for any cnt to come suck it dry, , which is whats happened and now the UK is a total sht hole like the way HK is becoming, so suck it up and say good bye bye to the stuck up cnt way of life, because its on the way out.

            The motherland on the other hand can control who comes and goes and choose when to shut the gates,so in the end the motherland will be the place to live when all else around sunk into the abyss of piggy eyed interbreeds.

          • linette lee

            who comes and goes and choose when to shut the gates…………

            This is an immigration department problem. HK needs to have stricter immigration law. It has nothing to do with being a place of democracy. And I am glad you are happy to live under china system. At least you won’t be bitter.

          • MrT

            It is do with being a democratic systems,because votes are won on who you please the most yes? So now the UK is infested with all the wrong people who get to vote, so now the different government are to scared to close the gates because they will loose votes and not get into power, can you see the problem?

            Its a bullshit system and HK is a strange situation because its got the left overs from the British systems not to mention all the criminals raping the motherland of money.

            I’m hoping the Chinese government will tidy up HK and put it on the right path soon. Like deporting all the moaning stk up cnts back to Britain

          • Germandude

            Yes, Mr. Troll. The right path on which anybody willingly to obey the rules of the government’s leaders, lick some asses, pay some hongbaos is granted a piece of cake.
            The advantage of such a glorious system is obvious. You don’t need to make the majority of voters happy, nor do you need to fear to be confronted with any opposition on what you are doing since you are above the law. That is, if you are one of the few that is benefitting of such a system.
            On the other hand, if you are not belonging to that group, if you are “an average Wang”, you are also benefitting tremendously. Life is just prosperous as you can be assured of not listening to depressing news that show you what’s going wrONg and how you get fucked. Everybody is happy and the few idiots that are not taken care of with educational methods will soon learn the bright side of life as well. Everything good, as far as you can see! All that while in the UK, as well as anywhere else in the West, the fish stinks from top to bottom. Long live the Party!

            Now I wasn’t serious with my post. Were you?

          • MrT

            All your points are good and true Im glad you have woke up and know where your bread is buttered.
            Marmite anyone?

          • Flambart Photography

            Your bread is surely “buttered” mister Butterworth MrT (not the Mister T from The A-Team, surely), but in a Murphy’s Law change of fate, your bread is “buttered” on the wrong side, and as in Orwell’s 1984, your butter is not made from real milk. Your diary has a dairy problem, and your 50 cent army dare gave you a mild mind diarrhea. I’m baffled by balderdash by your silly “buttered” bread tales. No new tale to tell?

          • MrT

            Do you want marmite or not?
            (its MrT from the TWAT team)

          • wacky

            so is this bumbler make the voters happy? if so why he is a bumbler? because the other bumblers chose him regardless how stupid he is.

            so did he make the majority of the voters happy in his first term?? or he get reelected regardless of being a bumbler??

            and yes people should not worry about anything they cant change why should they?? because the media tell them to?? so is the media the stupid one here??? you dont nee to be told by the media about your own condition, you know your own condition, the only thing the media can do is to make it look worse than it actually is.

          • Flambart Photography

            Vielleicht he just wanted his 50 cents, Forgive them, they don’t know what they say. They appear and disappear, multidimensional beings, like UFOs. They never develop a reasonable communication, they post, get 50 cents, and then fade away. Maybe it’s even a software from the mainland Matrix, not a real person.

          • MrT

            OK 1 HKD man don’t get all stck up cnt like because you get paid more.

          • Flambart Photography

            “Infested”? This sounds like lyrics of The Prodigy, maybe Infected Mushroom. Dude, you could write lyrics for a punk band. Do you have English school in your small village? Study more, not only the language but the culture as well. Don’t google translate, do some homework. What an apocalyptic view of HK, all based on your fake propaganda, all wrong. See the reality, free your mind.

          • MrT

            The reality of your home land is its in political ruin, bombs going off all over it and no money to clean the mess up after.

            Where is the democratic rights for the Basque separatist party?
            None.

          • Flambart Photography

            Linette, your comments are my favorite! Thanks for keeping the comments section intelligent and based on reason and logic!

          • MrT

            ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I knew it! You been rumbled!

            On the floor here

          • Flambart Photography

            Have you been to HK? Is your problem simply ignorance and hate or would it be envy? All your information is wrong! Check your data!

          • MrT

            yea but I take of my black shades when I go there, you should try it.

        • Super Bunny

          we just do not like….we also dislike hkers….
          twnese their skill of blahblah is so high,they are the most talktive group in asian guess.everyone can blahblah a lot…just small economic island,always fking mean when there is anything about china.
          also btw,we dislike their old actresses stick to our rich 2nd gerneration like fly then at the same so snobish…

          • linette lee

            So if you were given a choice to be re-born again, where would you rather be? China, Hongkong, or Taiwan….considering you are born with the same amount of wealth. Maybe like middle class.

            I will choose Hk again, because I know even if I was born poor in HK, I will still have access to good healthcare and education. Also gov’t housing. I will be poor but not starving. I have freedom of speech. I don’t have to worry about police corruption because I have civil rights even if I am poor.

          • Super Bunny

            i will still choose to my parents’ kid if i had to choose from the three though i like none of them.
            i do not know why u write starving, i am from village but never suffered anything real bad.even when we went to fileds, my father always bought a lot of cakes and snacks when i was a kid….
            we watched carton everyday, and father cooked watching us eat….
            i am very happy in such a family and full of big space.

          • linettte lee

            you are not starving but there are kids in other villages starving inside china. No such thing as starving kids in hk or taiwan because they have a gov’t systems that give welfare. Big space is great that I like, but it has nothing to do with the gov’t. I am talking about gov’t system…and not space or cartoon.
            You can’t even say you love the gov’t system of china. Why? Can any china chinese tell me how great is the gov’t system of china?

          • MrT

            At least in Mcdonalds China they don’t let the beggars inside to take the scraps of food off your table like they do in piggy eyed land.
            Place is infested with PE beggars who are clearly starving.
            You should go take a walk downtown someday see whats happening in HK,

          • That is not true. I have been harrassed by beggars several times while eating in McDonalds in China while employees sat and watched. I wouldn’t mind if they came in and just ate scraps off the tables. Who would? Those are the truly hungry beggars.

          • Flambart Photography

            Fake! This is not true! Mainland has beggars in all McDonalds, bad staff, impolite, rude people who don’t respect queues, sharp-elbow manners to drag you out of the queue, bad bread, bad meat, sundae has almost no chocolate and it tastes like water-chocolate, people unpleasantly staring at foreigners (they have no idea staring is impolite). In HK McDonalds things are clean, staff is great, polite, stylish, healthy and no beggars at all! Feels even cozy. In Mainland beggars are waiting 4 you in front of the cashier and even attempt to touch your wallet. McDonalds in mainland even has cockroaches and I saw staff drying their uniforms on the main entrance ventilation system! Sometimes you are eating and fuwuyuan is literally sweeping your feet and asking you to put your feet away. And “dvd – watch – bag” people disturbing you everywhere.

          • MrT

            your sound like some one else on here, perhaps your joined at the hip

          • DavidisDawei

            I was in Beijing recently and noticed a man sitting across me at an empty table. He looked homeless (dirty and wearing worn clothes) and the way he was staring at me as I ate made me think he was there to eat leftovers. I normally eat everything on my plate and throw my own garbage away, but this time I left food on the table and sure enough, he moved into my seat after we vacated and chowed down. I did not see the same thing in Shenzhen or Hong Kong on this last visit if this happens there as well.

          • Jennster

            I will choose China no doubt. I am not that into Hong Kong. Sorry.

          • linette lee

            I am happy for you if you are living in shanghai. I know you are truly happy because you live in shanghai and not in the rural. You can raise your beautiful kids in shanghai continue to live under the china gov’t system. No need to leave china at all.

          • linette lee

            Also you hate taiwan and hk people I can understand. They do have different background and culture. But I am talking about the gov’t system of China, hk, and taiwan. If you tell me you and most china chinese love the China gov’t system, then china truly have no hope for human rights because even their own people don’t believe in it.

          • Jennster

            we just feel our government system is more efficient and more chinese. it is what i feel the most effective system to rule a country like china. we do not prefer an indian like or american like system at all. only a minority amount do which is exaggerated by the west.
            whether inner chinese provinces are lagging behind has nothing to do with the system. it’s due to the population.

          • linette lee

            …………..more efficient and more chinese. it is what i feel the most effective system……………

            What do you mean by more effective? You mean China gov’t system is effective because they have a segregation system separating the rich urban and the poor rural chinese, who are allll citizens under china gov’t. They arer all children of motherland china. China gov’t is effective by exploiting these 600 millions plus poor rural chinese and use them as slaves and pay them next to nothing making the 400 millions plus urban chinese rich and richer? China gov’t is effective by preventing these poor rural chinese from getting fair access to good education like the rest of the urban chinese that they needed to advance to get a better life? China gov’t is effective making sure only those with money can get healthcare? China gov’t is so effective that the rich can buy their way out of conviction? Where is the law? Why so much corruption? Guilty are those who are poor without money or connection. Where is justice and human rights?

            You don’t mind because you are one of the urban folk. You are loving it because of your selfish reason. The rich wants to make sure their wealth are not spread thin with other people. Chinese can’t be respected or become world super power because the majority of china chinese don’t respect human rights. Look here.

            http://www.weirdasianews.com/2012/06/21/pollution-large-number-cancer-villages-china/

            http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/25/china-rural-migrants-more-respect

            Everytime reading things like this about china, my blood boils. That is the main reason why Hongkongers and taiwanese don’t like to be associated with china chinese. China chinese don’t respect human rights.

          • MrT

            Its the menopause making your blood boil.

          • Jennster

            do you propose we compare with india due to similar population size? you can’t compare a city state like hong kong to all of china because of the population. we don’t need 1.3 billion population to beat hong kong/usa.

            you talk like the westeners who keep saying china is still poor/backward. do you see the change in wealth (yes even in villages now) in inner provinces from 10 years ago? do you expect things to change for 1.3 billion people over one night?
            you’ve been brainwashed by the usa government. this is the reason usa will enver be respected in the world and hated by nearly ALL continents for a good reason, not China. think about this. glad i don’t live there.

          • linette lee

            didn’t you see the link I posted to you? Or maybe you can’t see because China blocked everything. This is how they keep the truth from china chinese.

            Yes, population is a major problem in China. China needs to start taking one child policy seriously. Not that nonsense just pay a fine if you have 2nd or 3rd child. So many of them are still breaking the one child policy law, especially the rich who can afford the fine. They need to slow down on reproduction BIG TIME, and should be china’s number one priority to shrink the population.

            Improving living environment for the rural areas such as education and healthcare should follow. China needs a better system to benefit all china citizens, not just the urban chinese.

            China can’t be respected by the world if majority of the china chinese still live like third world country with third world mentally.

    • Germandude

      Only problem in your “logic” is: Taiwanese people actually were allowed to choose their stupid leaders. You got yours without being asked. And rest assured, your next leaders will keep it that way. So who in this case is more stupid? The Taiwanese people? The Taiwanese government? The Chinese government? The Chinese people? You?

      • MrT

        Germans and Americans

        • Germandude

          Yes Mr. Troll.

      • wacky

        of course taiwanese are more stupid because only stupid people choose stupid leader stupidly.

        • wacky

          and why not the economic?? probably the economic is the stupid one here

    • vincent

      I thought Ma was more pro China than his predecessors, hmm I guess ur comment does make sense now.

    • Flambart Photography

      No one is against China. Agree on disagree does not mean “against”.

      • MrT

        Engwish not your first language is it?

  • Alphy

    When I first read the original article from The Economist I paused over “the average family now needs to go 40 years without eating or drinking to be able to afford purchasing a house” wow that seems really bad, until I looked at the situation across the strait, where most family have to go 70-80 years to purchase one.

    Not to say it is a good thing, but I’ve also saw in another economist article that because of the low wage and being a highly industrialized country, Taiwan is now one of the most competitive developed country in terms of high tech business. On the other hand, it seems this has been that case for many years, with little effect in trickling down those gain in GDP to the middle class. The issue in Taiwan seems to be that their Min wage, and many other laws are highly skew in favor of business and against the middle class. And with low disposable income domestic consumption is weak and any growth are reliant on export orientated economy.

  • PeterScriabin

    Regarding whether 笨蛋 is a good Chinese translation of the English word ‘bumbler” – I think not. The main denotation of “bumbling” is clumsy, erratic movement or actions, like a bumblebee. Maybe 笨拙 or 拙笨?

    • Kai

      Yeah, “ben dan” comes off as a lot more severe and derisive than “bumbler” suggests to me. It’s the difference between someone who makes mistakes and someone who is just inherently stupid.

  • Andrew Dale

    In the future, I think it would be helpful to distinguish between Taiwanese netizens and Chinese netizens. They are two very distinct populations and running this article as if it was any other mainland China story is a little misleading.

    Speaking of which, I am interested to see what mainland Chinese think of this situation, given how highly most think of Ma.

    • themig

      it is in the interst of the ROC and Ma to reunite with CHina whether or not the CCP is still there. down with Japan as always!

  • kung

    So far, we Taiwanese people had an American founder (Sun Yat Sun), a dictator (Chiang), then another dictator (Chiang junior), then a Japanese (Lee), then a prisoner (Chen), and now a bumbler. What’s next? God bless Taiwan.

  • Guest

    the average family now needs to go 40 years without eating or drinking to be able to afford purchasing a house.

    -this situation is even worse from my experiences in the mainland

  • mikeycito

    the average family now needs to go 40 years without eating or drinking to be able to afford purchasing a house.

    -This situation is even worse in cities on the mainland (from my experiences)

  • Harmony

    “At least the Taiwanese are free to criticize their leaders”, well said. If you dare to criticize leaders in China, you might get yourself “harmonized.”

  • xiaohouzi

    The media reports that Elton John dedicated his only concert in Beijing to Ai Wei Wei. The new Chinese passports contain a map outlining its territorial claims angering many nations. The Onion nominated Kim Jong Un “the sexiest man alive”. Falling for it, the Chinese People’s Daily ran a 55 page article complete with photos of Kim and now the rest of the world is laughing at the embarrassed state run media.

  • dfrog

    nice.. ;)

  • Justin

    笨蛋 means idiot . One can be incompetent at one’s job without being necessarily stupid in general.

    半吊子
    [bàndiàozi]

    1.
    noun
    [指言行举止]
    blunderer

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