Thousands Involved in Foxconn Brawl, Chinese Netizen Reactions

Mnay Foxconn employees are gathered outside.

From QQ:

Foxconn Taiyuan Factory Workers Brawl

September 23rd, at about 22 o’clock in the night, a major riot happened at the Foxconn Apple contract factory located in Taiyuan city of Shanxi province, where over a thousand employees beat up security guards and vandalized infrastructure throughout the factory area, lasting until 3 o’clock in the morning on the 24th.

Mnay Foxconn employees are gathered outside.

Mnay Foxconn employees are gathered outside.

Mnay Foxconn employees are gathered outside.

These pictures are of the assembled employees.

The police force have arrived.

The brawling has stopped.

From the night of September 23rd to the morning of September 24th, a riot happened at Foxconn’s Taiyuan factory, where over a thousand employees beat up security guards and vandalized infrastructure throughout the factory area.

The gathering guards.

The gathering guards.

These pictures are of the assembled security guards.

The scene of the riot.

This picture is of a riot scene.

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

These pictures are scenes of the infrastructure throughout the factory area having been vandalized because of the riot.

Foxconn employees.

This picture is of the assembled employees.

The guards.

This picture is of the assembled security guards.

The Foxconn Apple contract factory located in Shanxi Taiyuan.

This picture is of the Foxconn Apple contract factory located in Shanxi province Taiyuan city.

Comments from QQ:

腾讯网友 §午べ阳□:

Foxconn needs to implement a strict management system. Foxconn’s security guards are not only in charge of the factory’s security, they also have powers such as monitoring and fining [the employees]. Because the factory wants to establish the authority of the security guards, it repeatedly shows favoritism to the security guards. On the other hand, most of the security guards have low characters, and poor self-discipline, resulting in the security guards’ arrogant attitudes. Some of Foxconn’s administrative clauses are insulting, and too much overtime has caused many employees with heavy mental stress to feel resentful. I’m a small supplier for Foxconn. Some of the comments talking about protecting the Diaoyu Islands, I don’t even know what you guys are talking about!

腾讯网友 ~幽谷箫声~:

As an 8-year veteran of Foxconn, I have mixed feelings! Sometimes you are discriminated and even abused by the guards and employers in every aspect, yet you can do nothing to fight back. If you fight back, it’s still you yourself who gets hurt, the company’s iron rules suffocating you! During work, it’s difficult to avoid making some minor mistakes, but your supervisors would have you to write reports for these small mistakes and give you a good tongue-lashing. If you make those mistakes again they’ll even insult your dignity. There’s a lack of human kindness during work as the supervisors will never miss a single chance to punish you when you make a mistake! They make you constantly terrified of making mistakes. We’re all 20-something adults and all have our own self-respect, who would sincerely and intentionally seek to be scolded?? Working year after year, sometimes you become weary and want to go home to visit your parents, but you’ll have to wait for one or two months before you’re allowed to go. Life is always so boring except the day you get paid each month, you can’t even find any pleasure in living! The purpose of the morning & evening meetings are supposed to be summarizing mistakes, but they turn into scolding meetings, everyday bringing out trivial matters to yell at people, twice a day, rain or shine. The characters of the basic supervisors are also low, always using course language when scolding people, such as “SB, wo cao”…and the link. In many aspects, Foxconn is so many times better than our own [mainland] Chinese enterprises, but there are still many shortcomings, so I hope they can better respect employees’ self-esteem and Foxconn’s future will definitely be even better!

腾讯网友 翔云:

If it were just the security guards occasionally beating the employees, normally it wouldn’t possibly get this big! After all, our countrymen believe that there are always reasons for anything happening. Thus, we can see to what degree the conflict between the employees and the employers has reached for over a thousand employees to use this opportunity to release their hate, assembling together and smashing production facilities.

腾讯网友 情||殤→聊振:

I once read a post, which talked about life in Foxconn. The education levels of the employees are all not high, some of them with only elementary school levels of education. Many of them don’t have the right views on life and values, just blindly working and living. Between them, they’re unable to interact with each other [develop friendships], because interacting with each other will create a very realistic problem, which is the borrowing of money. The turnover rate at Foxcoon is especially large, so there have been many instances were money has been lent and the person [borrower] has simply left [without repaying]. This has sometimes caused some of the older employees to not interact with the newer employees, even to the point where they’ve lived half a year in the same dormitory and still haven’t exchanged a single word. The work everyday is repeat, repeat, and repeat again, repeating the same movements every single day. There are also many other factors, but I already can’t quite remember them clearly, but more or less these are the main conditions. It is in this kind of environment that the previous very famous multiple suicide jumpings occurred. So for this kind of thing to happen, we can also understand why.

腾讯网友 唯一の牵挂:

‘ve worked in Foxconn before. Foxconn’s security guards are the garbage of the garbage. Without you guys [the security guards], we would work even better.

腾讯荆门市网友 一毛:

Look at how this news is written! Could you please simply write the reason [for the riot]? Could you use a little bit of heart and be just a little bit professional? Making people confused and muddled, is that your purpose?

腾讯西安市网友 ㄨ℉佰倳砢樂:

Foxconn’s security guards deserve the beating…

腾讯常州市网友 口可口可:

These security guards deserve to be beaten. Think about it, no matter how many guards you have, could you be more than the employees? Besides, guards and employees don’t belong to the same system, all just making a living at Foxconn, and their leaders wouldn’t offend Foxconn’s leaders, so what you gonna do about being beaten up? Do you think because you put on some stupid uniforms that you’re suddenly Interpol? You’re nothing. Some of the guards in Foxconn simply fucking deserve a beating, and I’m not making it up.

腾讯网友 心宇亭幽:

What determines a person’s behavior is not their genes,
but the environment he/she lives in~~

腾讯网友 沙漏:

This time, again I feel very regretful. Our people’s characters really need to be improved. What I understand is that those who work on an assembly line are not very well educated, lacking proper values, and incapable of telling good from evil, right from wrong. This causes a “more people, more guts” situation which makes them capable of anything. They come from rural areas yet live in the cities, don’t have a high degree of education, most living in the bottom levels of society, doing the same work or even harder work than others, but getting in return treatment that is different. Therefore, more or less, they grow hatred toward their surroundings, even toward society. It only takes a fuse to explode into a mass incident like this. To smash the factory is never right, because if you think the working environment isn’t good, you can choose to leave. No one is forcing you to stay, this is common knowledge. If your family hired someone to work for you and he felt you weren’t treating him well so he smashes or even burns your home down, beating your family…how would you feel about it? Would you let it go just because you didn’t treat him well? Go think about it yourself. If the treatment isn’t good, you can leave. Don’t just start beating up people and smashing things whenever you want to!

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

From QQ:

Taiyuan Foxconn Brawl Lasted 4 hours, Claimed Caused by Security Guards Beating People

[…]

After a string of suicide jumping incidents, the Foxconn company has experienced yet another violent incident. From 11pm the night before yesterday [September 24] to yesterday morning, a large brawl occurred between employees at the Foxconn Taiyuan industrial park. According to the Shanxi Province Taiyuan City Police Department as quoted on the official weibo of Xinhua News Agency’s China News website, 40 people were injured and 3 severely injured people are now in stable condition, while the rest were slightly injured and nobody was killed.

Yesterday Foxconn Company news spokesman confirmed to Beijing News reporters that this incident indeed happened, and he also claimed that about 2,000 employees participated and the incident did not subside until police got involved at 3am.

[…]

Additionally, according to local Taiyuan media, it can be seen on the scene that the supermarket inside the Foxconn factory plant had been damaged, that all the gates had been smashed, that all the workshops have been sealed, that factory buildings have been damaged in many places, that all the security guards have fled, and that even multiple police cars have been damaged. After the incident started, police rushed to the scene and stopped the situation from escalating.

[…]

This Beijing News reporter yesterday got in contact with a Taiyuan Foxconn employee surnamed Cao who had witnessed the conflict. He said that he arrived at the scene after hearing noise from arguments and fighting. The brawling had been stopped by then, but still there were several thousand people gathered, the ground a mess, with broken glass and railings that were pushed down.

As for the reason why the conflict happened, this employee said it might have been because 3 Shandong employees had been drinking and on their way back to the factory dormitory, they had an argument with Henan night-shift security guards on patrol. After both sides exchanged coarse language, a physical altercation broke out, which led to a larger conflict that expanded to over 2,000 people.

Yesterday this reporter contacted the Taiyuan City Propaganda Department, but up till when this report was submitted, nobody answered the phone.

As it is understood by this reporter, the Foxconn Taiyuan Factory produces car electronics and other various electronic components. The Foxconn Taiyuan Industrial Park has a total of 79,000 employees, and is still in the midst of recruiting workers.

[…]

Comments from QQ:

腾讯网友 西红柿:

The currently popular Apple products use our raw materials and our workers manufactured in our country, but our profit is only a few percent! We’ve given the youth of millions of our workers, caused terrible environmental pollution, and have created unimaginable amounts of wealth for the bosses afar in the US! This is the market economy with Chinese characteristics! In the future, don’t brag about being the world’s so-called second-largest economy anymore! About being the so-called largest developing country! In fact, our country is a black workshop that uses people as robots!

腾讯黑龙江省网友 上九天揽明月:

The government’s policies have problems, always introducing foreign investment, and using domestic assets to go buy foreign debt! The policies provide foreign enterprises advantages and give pressure to domestic businesses. It’s a classic treasonous behavior! It’s time to boycott foreign investment, especially from Japanese enterprises! Everybody ding this comment, resolutely reject foreign investment enterprises, and buy domestic products!

腾讯南通市网友 风雅:

The truth, we need to know the truth behind this incident.

腾讯网友 ゛温哥华有你:

Ah, is this kind of thing still new to Foxconn? Raise wages? Ah, but they deduct it all through room and board fees, so in the end it’s like the salary had never been raised. Sigh, it’s all a ruse.

腾讯中山市网友 兽血沸腾:

It’s not just once or twice that news of security guards beating up people has come out of this factory.

腾讯深圳市网友 兼赢天下:

A thousand people brawl, once again demonstrating the shortcomings of Foxconn’s management. When an enterprise blindly seeks maximum development of profit and neglects the concerns of little things, something big will eventually happen. For company management, this is something that must be understood clearly.

腾讯南京市网友 白起;

The security guards all fled… The security guards are all bastards.

腾讯牡丹江市网友 莲子心儿:

Investigate further, why not investigate the root of why people would jump off building? Why? Chinese people are all low, low to the extreme!

腾讯网友 新新的:

When social problems aren’t effectively resolved, they’ll eventually explode. I suggest the people establish organizations like labor unions to protect migrant workers’ interests.

腾讯台州市网友 大桃子:

Why does work like indentured labor still exist in our country???

What do you think? What is the reason for this brawl? Who do we blame? For the starting incident? The ultimate brawl and vandalism? The friction between individuals? The working environment? Management? Uneducated workers and thuggish security guards?

The destroyed infrastructures at the factory area because of the riot.

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  • Snicker

    They need more sofas at Foxconn

    • linette

      The china chinese need to do this to the china government. Bash it and beat up the gov’t china officials. Chase them out of their offices.

      • Dr Dust Cell

        Wow calm down, we’re just talking sofas here.

        • Snicker

          Well, I’ve never been in an official’s office that didn’t have a sofa…

        • 404namenotfound

          Haaaahahah!

      • asdf

        yeah sure, lets resolve anarchy with moar anarchy. Bash and beat up the gov’t China officials, Chase them out their offices. then go back to work at Foxconn. Only this time everybody’s wages will be low, so there’s no more hard feeling. problem solved.

      • Boo

        …and replacement them with new, moral, upright Chinese officials who will serve the people! Oh wait. Chinese society is rotten to the core. This society is doomed no matter who is in charge.

  • BigJ

    Then guys are pissed.:) I would be pissed too if i was making 2000 yuan a month.

    • BigJ

      Them”

    • jeffli

      2000 yuan per month?
      your dreams!
      more like 1500 yuan!
      and then they are forced to eat sub standard food in the canteen.

      dormitories are also substandard and in breach of many building codes.

    • donscarletti

      2000 yuan is quite a good salary for Chinese workers. This is the kind you only get if you leave your village and go to the wealthy provinces to work in construction or in a factory. 2000 yuan is why they came.

      The arsehole security guards acting as authoritarian police was too much.

      Imagine normal security guys right? Guy’s who can’t get into the army for whatever reason, too dumb, fat, lazy or failed the psyche test. Nobody who can get into the army would be a security guard, because the army provides training, camaraderie, good food and a career path. Being a security guard just gives you a stupid hat, a tiny salary and no stimulation.

      Now imagine those security guards with the power to regulate your entire life, from when you wake up to when you go to bed, your job, your dorm, everything. Give these bored, pathetic jerks the power to oversee people’s lives and you think they’re going to abuse it? You’re damn right they are. Fines, beatings, whatever.

      Anyway, 加油 workers. Kick some security guards in the nuts for me!

      • Charles

        I have to disagree on the 2000 RMB figure. It’s not a good salary anymore. Perhaps it was 5 years ago, but with the massive inflation over the past few years, it really isn’t worth much.

        Also, it’s increasingly common to see people doing unskilled labor getting paid this much. I live in a poor city in Liaoning and waiters can make that much money here.

        • Cynic

          Not at all the perception i have. 2000 RMB is good. 6 years ago i was paying 650 no benefits. now it is closer to 2000 RMB including benefits (albeit bare minimum) but not yet at 2000 RMB. this is in an already prominent factory producing area of China (not Guangdong). low rung office people are paid the same as average factory workers.

          2000 rmb can go a long way, most notably because of the chinese tendency to room together and share rent costs.

  • Young Man

    Finally! Chinese People fighting for theings that need to be fought for against the people who need to be fought against!

    Posters are asking ”why is it happening?” and then blaming security guards- the ptoblem is tht no Chinese worker, no Chinese citizen, has any rights at all and a shitty foreign company (well- Taiwanese) has come here to take advantage of that fact.

    Ding the people.

    Up and at ’em!

    • BigJ

      I blame Japan for all this :) They had some hand in this I know it. And I don’t know for sure….but I think America was also involved….

      • Young Man

        Well Apple is involved so that’s America. According to the googles, Foxconnmakes Playstations so that’s the Japanese.

        If you want to blame foreigners, there’s always a way.

      • linette

        yes…Obama has a tv monitor in his white house monitoring and instructing the foxconn security guards their daily assignments.

        • the ace of books

          Hahahahahahaha!

          …great merciful god don’t tell me you’re serious .____.

  • Young Man

    Imagine how good it felt to roll that police car over.

    mmmmmmm

    • Young Man

      The only thing that could have made it better is if the pigs were still inside it- imagine thaeir fat little faces as the crowd surrounds their car. Imagine them squeal for mercy.

      OK, I’m hard.

  • Hanyu_King

    Don’t fuck with people who work 12 hours a day watching you sit on your butt.
    Especially not with a thousand of them.

  • Getrealson

    Good on ’em! stick it to the man boys! trade unions are debatable but it has to be better than this. Goes to show, just like blood diamonds there is a human price that is paid for our luxuries.

    Mob violence is 10 kinds of dumb but I still find it very amusing. Koreans have had some entertaining violent protests! Molitov cocktails, bricks and tear gas. I still think football hooliganism is the funniest, at least these guys had a real beef…..I think I might be a bit of an anrchist .

    • mr. wiener

      You’re a bit of an antichrist?
      Seriously though this is just going to get weirder once the jobs start drying up [even more than they are now]and going elsewhere.
      There is a generation of pissed off youth that can’t get laid, can’t get paid and can’t get ahead in life. All the while they’re seeing a exclusive upper class of fat bastards with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement eating all the pie.
      It’s going to get ugly in the next decade , Coala Banana was a pig, but he was right about this.

      • Getrealson

        anarchist! I find serenity in mayhem.

        • WhitePanda

          He didn’t call you an anarchist, he called you the Antichrist.

        • the ace of books

          How

      • Germandude

        Wiener, I totally agree with you. The disappointed generation is getting more and more upset. It’s boiling already. Just read the first 2 comments from QQ.

        First one doesn’t understand why Apple (as the bad foreign company) gets most of the profit, while its Chinese workers and raw materials that are used. And the 2nd one wants to limit foreign investment, especially because foreign companies get preferable treatment towards local ones. LOL

        I could laugh about reading this kind of lack of knowledge, hesitate though as I am afraid of being called a racist.

      • Kukuku

        Just did a search to read some CB posts. This guy is pretty smart. Too bad he left I would’ve liked to learn some business from him.

        • mr. wiener

          You’d have liked him. He had a reeeeeal thing for baiting Nanny Hiccup\Notorious.

          • Northerner

            \Elizibeth.

      • BigJ

        Yeah it’s true, it happening right now. Once the companies have to raise wages because of the cost of living goes up, that’s it. We will go to some other poor Asian country like Vietnam or Burma and set up factories. And in 20 or 30 year just rinse and repeat.

        The only way I think China can stay in the game in the future is to make things poor countries cannot. They have to be more like Japan and SK in the furture to be able to keep going. Make higher quality items. I think that will never happen. That’s just my opinion.

        • Northerner

          Have to agree. I always get the impression most Chinese will take the easy route with the quickest returns. There doesn’t seem to be any attempt to invest in innovation and ‘high’ design solutions — the path which Japan and SK eventually realised they had to take and are now at the forefront of globally.

          I am not saying China has missed the boat, more that they never actually realised it was there.

        • Cynic

          Your right about china having to make better stuff to stay in the game. Your wrong about thinking it wont happen. It is happening now and will continue.

          It’s about controlling the work force, which this article is sort of about.

          When china grows up culturally the level of controll will hopefully decrease.

          • BigJ

            Sorry, what I meant was China can make some high quality items…but none which are theirs, like a Chinese owned company. Excluding Taiwan and Hong Kong, Chinese themself don’t make shit that is worth anything. Cars..no….electronics…no….food stuffs…fuck no…There are not many high quality owned chinese companies. I can name some SK and Japan high quality companies…but chinese don’t come to mind. Just name me one Car or electronic company from the mainland that is know for quality.

          • anon

            That’s generally true with regards to what the average consumer knows but not really true in much of the business and manufacturing world. The Chinese make plenty of high quality items nowadays that are worth plenty. What they don’t have are strong international brands, which is something both Taiwan and Hong Kong also struggle with because of their historical preference for contract manufacturing.

            You can name some high quality South Korean and Japanese companies now but everything you’re saying was said before about South Korea and Japan not that long ago. Not going to argue that the Chinese lack reputable brands the average consumer is familiar with, and even their most known ones are usually considered lesser to the top South Korean and Japanese brands, but I’d caution against counting the Chinese out in this game. Too many people were proven wrong about both Japan and Korea using the exact same rationale.

      • linette

        You mean Coala Banana has foreseen all this? My God!

  • Chris

    5000 years of history …..

    • BigJ

      I have to defend Chinese here…..This would happen anywhere under the same conditions. If not even worse then this.

      • Kukuku

        Exactly. Good for them to finally stick it to the man.

    • Irvin

      Millions of years of evolution.

    • mr. wiener

      ….repeating itself.

      • the ace of books

        Noice.

    • 404namenotfound

      …..And still failing.

  • BigJ

    I’m sure what happen was people were forced to work harder to make the iphone 5 and shit just got out of hand. It most likely was something small that just escalated, like the straw that broke the camels back. People who have higher up positions i’m sure are total dicks to the regular workers.If I had to blame something or someone on this, it would be stress and dick head managers. With so many people working at this factory, even a small problem turns into a cluster fuck of thousands of people doing mob like shit.

    And i’m not shitting on China here…..this would happen anywhere. Imagine a factory in Canada with 80,000 workers and only payed $300 dollars a month and have to work 12 hours a day…..the pandemonium would be fucking out of this world. I have to give Chinese credit for keeping their cool this long. Sure people kill them self at the factory, but who cares, It seems they had some form of order that kept them somewhat peaceful…until now.

    • asdf

      Working conditions at Foxconn are not bad at all. The employees are just taking advantage of apple’s popularity, knowing that everything they do will immediately receive widespread media coverage. I’d rather work at Foxconn than at a Chinese farm or coal mine. Foxconn employees should stop hoarding attention from those who are actually suffering.

      • Cynic

        Asdf, I whole heartdly agree.

      • bobby dazzler

        Working conditions at Foxconn are not bad at all

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/13/cost-iphone-5-foxconn-factory

        Boom. Uninformed comment answered to. My work on the internet is done.

        • anon

          I wouldn’t say his comment was uninformed. “Not bad at all” is strictly an exaggeration if taken literally, but “bad” is also subjective. I think most people here would agree though that working conditions at Foxconn is arguably better than many other places. It’s also clearly not as good as many OTHER places, but you can’t really seriously go down that road without throwing out market economics and advocating a far greater degree of enforced world socialism. We demand certain prices and certain profit margins for ourselves, and someone else is willing to supply it.

          • bobby dazzler

            Ok.

            So I think I see where you’re coming from here – a kind of “necessary evil” approach to the myriad problems we, as a species, seem to enjoy creating for ourselves. It makes sense, frankly, and I admire an adherence to such a self-sufficient philosophy. At the risk of coming across as a didactic prick I’m going to answer each of your points in turn:

            “Not bad at all” is strictly an exaggeration if taken literally, but “bad” is also subjective.

            Syntax aside, I completely agree with your statement to the point where I almost regard it as a tautology. Yes, ‘bad’ is a subjective concept, but would you agree with either of the following sentences?

            1) A Western doctor who moves to a sub-saharan african nation, teaches others and practices medicine for local wages out of what he regards as “unconditional love for humanity” is doing a bad thing.

            2) Pitching up to an elementary school and taking a machete to a bunch of kid’s heads is a bad thing.

            Hope you chose honestly.

            The point here is that while “good” and “evil” are hilariously malleable concepts, they’re still relative concepts, which brings us to the next statement:

            I think most people here would agree though that working conditions at Foxconn is arguably better than many other places

            Well yes – I’d rather work at Foxconn than, say, Auschwitz, or in a Colombian death squad, but that’s not much of a goddamned choice is it? Not a single one of us posting on this site would choose to work under foxconn’s conditions – for that matter, not many humans at all would want to do so. 12 hour shifts? Mindless, repetitive work? 27 yuan for two hours overtime? Cockroaches all up in your dormitory? I’m sure those people committed suicide for fun. People don’t WANT to work at companies like Foxconn, they HAVE to, because otherwise they’ll fucking starve.

            It’s also clearly not as good as many OTHER places, but you can’t really seriously go down that road without throwing out market economics and advocating a far greater degree of enforced world socialism.

            No I don’t. Remarking that the current economic system allows for massive amounts of disparity and exploitation isn’t the same as “throwing it out” – I’d say it needs reform, but listing and discussing such reforms is most definitely not fodder for Chinsmack’s comment section.

            We demand certain prices and certain profit margins for ourselves, and someone else is willing to supply it.

            I, along with (apparently) the workers of Foxconn, recognize this to be true. We also, apparently, regard it as being fucked up. Out of everything you’ve written, I take umbrage with “we demand” – because seriously – fuck you if you’re just going to glibly use what you want as a crux in what was, ostensibly, an objective analysis of labour economics. For reference, I know around fifteen people who work at Foxconn – not the poor folk obviously (ha ha haa no), but middle management types. Here’s something interesting: for each iphone sold, Apple receive ~70% of the revenue – foxconn receives ~2%. Ponder the ramifications of that.

            So yeah. “We” demand certain profit margins and someone else is certainly willing to supply them, but hey, various kings of England demanded Palestine and plenty of people were willing to go over there and get it, which I guess was just fine.

          • elizabeth

            +1

          • anon

            I think your questioning my statement that “‘bad’ is also subjective” is because its being evaluated apart from the context of the statement that follows it. Maybe it would be clearer if I clarify that I’m thinking of “good” or “bad” as related to “better” or “worse”. I’m just saying someone working at Foxconn might not think it is “bad” when they’re thinking of how much worse other places are. I’m saying I understand what asdf is referring to, which is that working at Foxconn is actually in many ways better than many alternatives for these people. “Not bad at all” though if taken literally is an exaggeration that he couldn’t defend.

            I have the suspicion that we’re not actually in disagreement about certain things but that there’s a misunderstanding. I see “want” as being a relative concept too. A lot of these people still arguably “want” to work at Foxconn because it’s the better choice versus their other options. That’s still “want”. All of our “wants” are within the context of what we think is possible for ourselves. You don’t have to compare Foxconn to Auschwitz, you only need to compare it to many of the other contract manufacturers in China with conditions we’d find even worse than Foxconn.

            I think you’ve misunderstood the next part of my comment you take issue to. I never said remarking about disparity and exploitation is throwing out market economics. In fact, you didn’t actually remark about anything in your previous comment except to “glibly” dismiss asdf’s comment as “uninformed”.

            What I was trying to say and perhaps wasn’t thorough or clear enough, is that the other side of comparing Foxconn to what’s worse, which is to compare it to better, often ends up in people wanting things to be magically better without considering all the ramifications and factors that contribute to what things are the way they are. I had hoped this was clear in context with the sentence that follows where I allude to prices, profit margins, and the willingness of someone to supply them. I feel these people and their arguments neglect market economics and argue for what amounts to world socialism. Come on, you’ve probably heard this before, right? It was another side to all the anger about Chinese working conditions for our iPhones. It got plenty of media coverage too. It’s just another extension of the cognitive dissonance of us wanting cheaper products but being indignant about the working conditions of the people overseas who make it possible.

            You’ve also misunderstood my last sentence. I’m saying we, as in much of the developed, first, Western world, do indeed demand certain prices and profit margins. Meeting that demand are certain people, including Foxconn, because there’s a labor force willing to supply them. I’m not saying it is what we SHOULD demand, I’m saying that’s what it IS. I’m also not saying it can’t be changed. I’m just saying it in context with the previous sentence.

            I must say I’m baffled by how you’ve misunderstood my statements and are reacting so violently. Your conclusions and retorts here are completely irrelevant and incongruous to what I was saying. If I failed to make myself understood, I’m sorry, but I hope this response clears things up. To be extra clear, I agree with you that the current economic systems allow for gross inequality and exploitation. My point is that I didn’t think asdf’s comment was really uninformed and I think its a really complicated issue because of conflicting interests such as our desire for cheaper products and what we consider just recompense (profit margins) for the value we contribute to any economic activity. I’m quite certain I haven’t done anything injustice here nor should any of these notions inherently be offensive unless they’re misinterpreted.

          • Brett Hunan

            bobby dazzler you need to close your /i. Now everyone is italicized. Like little wolf, I prefer bold over italics.

      • Silent Observer

        Are you on crack or something?…Really? Then you go do the work then.

  • Chris

    The usual excuse. Uneducated.

    • Irvin

      it’s not an excuse, it’s a fact.

      • Chris

        I agree we need to export the classes on rioting when angry from American schools to china. Educate them.

        • mr. wiener

          They could learn a lot from the Koreans. And they need to start playing more baseball or cricket. Most Chinese guys throwing arms are a little limp.

      • Chris

        Universities riot when they win a championship. Lack of education is just an excuse.

    • BigJ

      I think it boils down to these guys not getting laid. They have to work over a year just to buy the apple 3 piece. And with no apple 3 piece means no girl friend or wife for these guys. :) So close, yet so far. :)

  • Irvin

    same shit happened a few years back at jinan university (guangzhou) involving some security guard not letting a female student in campus because it was late. And he pushed her, her bf then proceed to intervene and the guard punch him, he then called his friends and it looks like almost half the campus was out. Big brawl ensues, even the gate which was made of metal were broken, can’t keep us out now. lol

    • Young Man

      Most security guards I’ve seen in China are about 4 feet tall.

      The guys who guard my community would have difficulty fighting off a hobbit.

  • diverdude

    I just wonder if things are on the path to getting much worse…

    1. MASSIVE population (1,500,000,000 +/- ?)

    2. economic downturn

    3. semi-skilled work force

    4. disaffected youth

    5. massive unemployment

    6. lacking concept of social order / rule of law

    7. ANARCHY – Street mobs rip China apart….

    well ?

    • fredf

      8. About 40 million more males than females. That is about 40 million men that may never have a girlfriend or wife. It is men like that that start riots and revolutions.

      • diverdude

        excellent point.

      • Cooljackal

        Or go into schools with axes and attack children.

        • linette

          Or go into schools with axes and attack children…………….

          I agreed. Most of these men are living in poor rural areas without the proper education. Most of them are not your martin luther king. They will riot and burn buildings but don’t expect revolution from them against the gov’t. A Revolution most likely need to be started by the rich and powerful who are educated living in urban areas.

          • MrT

            “A Revolution most likely need to be started by the rich and powerful who are educated living in urban areas.”
            Why would they revolt?

            HK logic at its finest.

          • BigJ

            LOL yeah really. Rich and powerful people don’t want change what so ever. They thrive off of stupid, uneducated people. Tell me why rich people would take the time to revolt? Why would they change something that is beneficial to them?

          • linette

            HK logic at its finest……………

            Why would they change something that is beneficial to them?……….

            hahahha….I absolutely agreed. The rich and powerful love the way China is right now. They are the people who are against any changes. They do not want social equality. They love their power and live beyond the law.
            What to do?

          • the ace of books

            A Revolution most likely need to be started by the rich and powerful who are educated living in urban areas.

            …mybrainisfulloffuck.jpg

            To answer your question: what to do? I’d suggest two things: widespread education in critical thinking, and enforcement of law all up and down the scale. Not saying it’s going to happen, just that these two things would help massively, both on an individual and a societal level.

          • Dat Ankle

            Why would the rich and powerful be part of a revolution unless they are being directly hurt? Im sure poor Chinese can speak for themselves and if people wont listen just for the fact that theyre poor then they arent very educational if you ask me. If you have to rely on people who are doing swell in life for a revolution then you arent gonna get one ever.

          • Brett Hunan

            I think you are all misunderstanding linette. I dont think she meant that “rich people start rebellions”, but more like “it all boils down to inequality”.

            Cheers to having more patience with people who speak English as a second or third language!

        • simon

          or sent to diaoyu islands…. oh shit, did i just say that!

        • linette

          Dat Ankle..just because someone is rich and powerful doesn’t mean they don’t have morals. Look at John f kennedy who was born into a wealthy powerful family. After he became president, he did so many great things to aid the poor and the less fortunate to improve policy and created legislative programs. He helped push the civil rights movement. He deserved as much credit as Martin luther king. John K was a good man…..aside from the MM scandal. :)

          • BigJ

            John f Kennedy was alright. You say he did all this shit to help people….sure but that was his job to do so. The average rich man don’t give a fuck. You think the CEO of a major company gives a fuck about workers? If they can get get away with paying someone $1 a day, don’t think for a second they won’t do it. Let me tell you something, 90% of rich and powerful people are that way because they are greedy, ruthless cunts. Nice guys finish last.

          • linette

            sure but that was his job to do so….

            Don’t brush it off as “his job” when people like JK did something good and great and made a difference for millions. It’s always much harder to do the right thing instead of going along with majority rule. We are talking about a change in the gov’t system.

            Now we are talking about slave labor. Not just rich Ceo. I agreed majorty of the people rich or poor in this world put their own interests and benefits first. Even those politicians in usa who are rich, they push for laws that benefit them.

            As for rich Ceos I think Bill gate is cool. He does a lot of charity work. Steve Jobs seems like a cool dude too. Very intelligent. They are definitely some of the greatest innovators and entrepreneurs ever.
            Only nation like USA you can have such great entrepreneurial spirit. If China wants to compete with USA, they need to promote that.

            http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Steve_Jobs_Jokes/Steve_Jobs_has_an_App_for_God.jpg

            http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Steve_Jobs_Jokes/Gate_of_Heaven.jpg

            http://designcrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/DC101111-21.jpg

            http://www.yourdailymac.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/bill-steve-3.jpg

      • hess

        everyone gets their share with all the xiaosans and what not

      • donscarletti

        Yeah, and yet so many thousands of 剩女 can’t find husbands and so many men with mistresses.

        China in its heart has always been a polygamous society. Less women means less mistresses, not less wives.

        A Chinese man will ask, “why do I not have the money to keep a wife”, not “why do I not have a wife”. Though still, hardly the best for national stability.

        • simon

          this reminds me of a joke in china where a moderately well off husband bought an apartment for his xiaosan, 3 years into the relationship he felt too guilty and kicked her out of the apartment. Afterwards, he sold the apartment making like a 60% return and subsequently told his wife the truth.

          His wife rather shocked at what he had just told her subsequently replied: “you idiot! you should have had more xiaosans!”

          • BigJ

            That’s not a joke, that’s the reality of how Chinese woman think.

  • MrT

    Chinese folk very passive, Ive pushed em and pushed em to get a response,but when they do go get clear, they go ballistic.

  • fredf

    The workers in Chinese factories seem to be living in conditions similar to Western factories about 200 years ago during the industrial revolution.

    • don

      Factories in the west were like this up until the 1930s, when Unions really started to take hold, and force improvements in workers lives.

      • Cynic

        Unions were great. Now their the scourge.

        • moop

          yep

        • don

          No, THEY’RE needed more than ever these days.

          • moop

            haha, not even close. unions only serve themselves and keep others from having jobs. they make hiring people more expensive and shrink the number of jobs available in the market

          • mr. wiener

            Actually if you compare China to America in the 30’s [which I think you safely can] Unions ARE need to battle the govt sponsored corporations and their hired thugs , stand up for the rights and dignity of the working man so that all may enjoy the fruits of capitalism.
            Once this is achieved you should kill every one of the bloated parasitic MFers before they turn into extorting self serving turds that they are today in western societies.

          • don

            Do schools even bother to teach the difference between ‘their’ and ‘they’re’ and ‘there’ these days?

  • elizabeth

    Isn’t there a minimum wage policy? Things like this are partly why I am no fan of branded stuff. They charge exorbitant prices but pay pittance to those who slog in their factories. Buying their goods will only serve to encourage further exploitation of the factory workers.

    • Cooljackal

      You do realize that unbranded generic product workers are much worse off right? We only hear about the branded ones. Check out the factory conditions of all the generic products that are on the market. Those workers would wish to be foxconn workers anytime.

      • elizabeth

        As usual, you fail to understand my logic. I won’t bother to explain and seriously, you shouldn’t bother too.

        Have a nice evening.

        • moop

          haha, your “logic” is no logic at all. sure they pay low wages, thats why they came to china in the first place, but the wages they pay are still better than other similar factory jobs in the country so they can attract better workers. other factories in the industry also have to raise their wages to retain employees.

          • Cooljackal

            So moop, am I the crazy one or do you see it too?

          • moop

            apparently her logic is so sound that if one disagrees its clearly could only be because they fail to understand, you know, because she’s “really smart” and has superior logic

          • mr. wiener

            If you are smart you realize there is no arguing with female logic.

          • elizabeth

            Lol! Wiener oh wiener. You are just so clever and witty at times.

          • Cooljackal

            Yes, you are right mr. wiener. Because according to Chris Rock, men are handicapped because we have the need to make sense.

          • Germandude

            @Cooljackal

            I see it three. Better not arguing with her, because

            1. U r a foreigner and don’t understand China
            2. U don’t see her hidden unwritten messages because of reason #1
            3. She uses twisted logic in the beginning and doesn’t have the ability to reflect.
            4. You are still a foreigner and dont understand China

          • mr. wiener

            Umm.. you’re welcome for my thinly veiled insulting of you.?….Oh sh*t , is she being sarcastic?…damned, confused now, Yup , that’s feminine logic alright.

          • elizabeth

            Wiener, I really mean it :)

          • Chris

            #1 is always excuse number 1. You don’t understand our culture.

          • Lakeman

            Well the number 1 excuse listed there can certainly be an excuse. But it has a lot of truth to it as well. Culture is not something that is easily understood, especially if it’s different from one’s own. However, if this reason is used only as an excuse, especially on a constant basis, then it’s bad.

          • elizabeth

            “#1 is always excuse number 1. You don’t understand our culture.”

            What’s new? Straw man. I am not even Chinese. That is why I find it pointless explaining to those who make flimsy assumptions to support their pov.

          • linette

            elizabeth..so what are you? Why so secretive about it? We have some Americans here on this site. Also UK and Japan. German and Sweden. What are you?

          • Germandude

            Well in that case, elizabeth, you should consider some changes in your life. Your logic seems to be way off…

          • Lakeman

            The Foxconn situation is certainly not great. If my memory is correct, I think they also had issues with labor problems earlier this year. But I don’t think both problems are of the same nature.

            Btw, my earlier discussion about country and culture: I think it is true that it’s hard for, say, an American to truly understand China, or a Chinese to truly understand America. It’s not easy for a person to really know about another country/place and its people and culture. Even for a native person, it’s not easy for him/her to fully understand his/her own country/place, culture and people, let alone someone from a foreign place (of course it can happen. But the difficulty is much greater for a foreigner to acquire a real understanding of a specific country/place and its culture and people than a native from that country/place, culture, group of people). So when someone says that you don’t really understand my country and culture because you are a foreigner, that by itself is probably a legitimate statement. However, if this legitimate thinking and rationalization becomes an excuse to be used on a constant basis by a person to deflect good criticism, especially from a foreign party, then it runs the risk of being just another regular excuse rather than a legitimate reason and rationalization in the first place. However, this kind of thinking and rationalization (it’s difficult for a person to really understand another country/place, culture and people) is a valid one. It’s just that one shouldn’t misuse it to suit one’s own purpose. That’s all.

          • elizabeth

            @ Lakeman

            You’re cool. Wasn’t referring to you when I mentioned flimsy assumptions. Enjoy reading your postings – I get to know China/Chinese better through them.

          • Lakeman

            @elizabeth

            I know you were not referring to me in your post. Thank you for your kind remarks.

          • Cooljackal

            @Lakeman

            Thank you for the well explained response. I don’t think anyone would disagree with you there.

            However, I believe the previous replies were just sarcastic responses from people who clearly saw what I saw, which was basically an illogical response or rather a stubbornness to revisit one’s point of view.

    • red scarf

      Minimum wages ain’t good in China, I think they are for a 39 hour week.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_China_%28PRC%29

      • elizabeth

        Thanks for the info.

      • Cooljackal

        Good info! The wages for our area look about right. Although the 39 hour seems a little low. For Zhejiang, in a lot of office and factory work its a 6 day/48 hour work week.

  • wacky

    unfortunately nothing was burned

  • Cooljackal

    Well, vandalizing a place you work is probably not a good thing. Protesting and fighting for things is good, they seem to be going in that direction. I am not in their shoes so I can’t really judge what they were feeling at that point.

    All of the stuff that has been going on in China recently, including this, are good for other countries. We are starting to see a return of some types of manufacturing back to the west. It’s glacial right now but still happening.

  • Snicker

    After all this time, a few Chinese people are realizing that the capital is winning over labour. Well, maybe they don’t realize it in these terms, but they can feel something about that. I’m trying to figure out who is rolling a little slower in their grave because of this…is it Marx? Mao? How about all those who died in the long march, or the years of “natural disaster”?

    I am actually not sure how this hasn’t happened more often and in more places. Putting thousands upon thousands of people together, making peanuts to manufacture something they know the exact market price of…

    Kind of curious about of the price of an iphone, how much is the cost contribution of each of the people (other than the consumer) that ever actually touches it?

    • simon

      well i guess the question becomes, if you were a low skilled, lowly educated migrant worker. would you rather have a job or no job?

      and i heard the cost of assembly of apple phones is about 2-5% of the total cost price to manufacture the product.

      • Snicker

        Well, I guess for these folks working in the factory, many of them have a little bit of land back home that’s enough to grow food on for their family, enough to eke out a living. They will not die without their jobs, but they will not live comfortably.

        The question for society is, is there enough money in the world for all Chinese and Indian, heck, everyone around the world to live “comfortably”. What does that mean anyway?

  • elizabeth

    It’s good for these factory workers that unscrupulous opportunists are leaving in droves. They finally see they are worth more than they are paid and need not put up with the foul attitudes of exploiters who live off them, owning multiple properties across the border while looking down on them with disdain.

    March on for your rights! You deserve more for your contributions!

    • simon

      actually, the wages have more to do with supply and demand. if there is an abundance of low skilled workers than their intrinsic worth isn’t that much to begin with.

      But on the plus side, supply of cheap labor seems to be dwindling in China, so factories are starting to increase wages. The negative though is that, a lot of factories are starting to implement/talk about more automated factory processes.

      This development is rather interesting, because i don’t think the CCP would be too pleased at the sight of corporations being capital intensive rather than labour intensive, what will happen to all the laid off workers.. perhaps a riot like this but on a much larger scale.

      • elizabeth

        You are right about supply and demand. But the market also operates on the basis of willing buyer and willing seller.

        I am not sure if the increase in wages is due to better skills or the fact that factory workers are finally waking up to the fact that owners can afford to pay them more, which I agree, judging by the increasing number of millionaires/billionaires.

        Being capital intensive would mean potentially more skilled workers, higher productivity, improved living standards and a more advanced economy. Being labor intensive might keep employment rates low, but that is just a quick fix. Don’t think it is wise to remain at that indefinitely if China wants to achieve developed status.

        But the Chinese would have to be more creative, innovative and entrepreneurial with support from the government in terms of funding, education and resources. That is undeniably an uphill task for the government which is already bogged down with myriad other issues to solve.

      • Cooljackal

        It’s interesting that you mention automation. You are right though, it is starting to happen more. For some things now it is cheaper to use a robot than 10 workers, and it’ll be faster and cheaper. Side effect is also that automation allows some work to come back to western countries.

        You are right too about cheap labor. It’s becoming harder to find low skilled labor, even for factory work. Lots of college grads (a lot are useless when it comes to actual work) but job compatibility is not there. Add to that the extremely high turnover and it becomes a problem!

  • El Puma R.

    Yeah I knew you guys would be covering this one !

    I believe in China is normal to see workers (the cornerstone of china’s wealth) being treated like shit and fired for no reason whatsoever. Contracts don’t mean shit to anyone, and many just follow because there’s nothing else they can do, including those security guards. It happens in schools cafeterias too, food sucks and they pay lots for it. So these things are going to happen again and again, and considering all the people that lives in China, it could get really ugly any moment. The worst is yet to come.

    • Snicker

      Heck, how about real estate, where you pay out the nose for a small shoebox to live in, then it starts to crack and things fall off the walls and sewers stink as soon as anybody moves into the building…I know school cafeterias are bad — but that’s 10 kuai a meal maybe. What if you spend 3 generations of family savings on something you couldn’t live in after 30 years?

      • El Puma R.

        True dat ! and I know it too. It’s so hard to explain them why I don’t buy property in China. there are 2 reasons. 1.- what you said. 2.- why the f*ck would I buy property in such a ________ enviroment?

        WOW LOOK AT ME I’M SO WACIST ! Still have mooncake, want one? so deWrRicious!

        • simon

          3) because you wouldn’t be able to afford it even if you wanted.

  • Kim Lee

    and yet just yesterday CNN publishes a Leslie Chang (author of Factory Girls) article equating factory assembly line jobs with the first rung on a ladder of upward mobility…making it the “old fashioned way through hard work and determination” Maybe it is time for her to write the sequel “Factory Boys”…because these guys don’t look like they are happily striving and improving their living conditions. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/30/opinion/chang-chinese-factory-workers/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

  • BigJ

    Sorry, I have a question not related to this story.
    If a Chinasmack story has 2,3,4 pages of comments, and I click on someones comment from the “recent comments” and his /her comment is say on the 3rd page of comments, it never goes to that comment. Only if the comment I click on is on the first page. I have to constantly manually look for the comments on the 2,3,4 page. Is there a way to bring me right to that comment? If anyone can help that would be cool. Thanks

    • the ace of books

      ctrl+F, type in a person’s name.

      Not a sitewide solution, but just in general.

      • BigJ

        Yeah I do that already. I was just hoping for something better then that. Thanks for the reply though. :)

  • Jennster

    mmm getting iphone5 64 gb this week

    it’s not that chinese is 2nd largest economy and this happens. it’s just because of the population, we need to utilise 600-700 million to work in the factory instead of sitting around doing nothing. social inequality therefore occurs. it will smooth out as china develops further.

    • MrT

      true, go in to a shop in China 5 people serve you, go into a shop in the UK 1 person serves you.
      People work far harder in the UK.
      Here they get bored so riot to liven the day up.
      UK if you riot you get sent to hell.

      • Cooljackal

        It’s more like two people stand by the door to greet you, two stand around and talk or play with there phones, and one will just watch you until you go up and ask questions.

    • Snicker

      China’s problem is the ol’ “Old before you’re rich” slap in the back of the head. With a big population bubble of retirees coming up real quick, society is going to have to put way more resources into taking care of the old rather than worrying about the ability of Farmer Zhang Jr. to buy an iPhone (or even somewhere to live) for his kid. Still trying to figure out the solution to this…don’t know if there is much of a solution other than eating a whole lot of humble pie…

      And this isn’t just affecting China, although China is in a worse position because it’s per capital GDP is apparently much lower than western countries to start out with.

      Wen Jiabao’s goal of “smooth and fast development to achieve a moderately wealthy society” is a good one…we all just need to get our heads around what “moderately wealthy” means, and exactly how much work it actually takes each person to achieve.

    • linette

      So when is china really gonna start this birth control policy? China has a fake one child policy going on for a while. The rich can still have 3 to 5 kids. The poor in the rural can hide their 4th or 5th kids. When is China gonna really shrink their population to 500 or 600 millions? You want a nation where their citizens can live in social equality. A productive good quality life. Not 600 millions slavery serving the 400 millions urban folks…..and the 40,000 rich urban folks still run down to crash hk ER to steal HK id and free life time benefits. How crazy.

      Who knows. Maybe the next generation China people will have more boys. Like 800 millions men and 400 millions women. Then the population will shrink for sure. Let’s hope for that.

      • Germandude

        Linette, your numbers are way off yet again. Afaik, there are approx 40-45 mio more male than female in China. Regarding the discrepancy of old people vs young ones, you can easily see China’s challenges in the future.
        And for war, having a huge amount of young guys is beneficial.

        Not saying that China seeks war, but the historical similarities are not to be ignored.

      • Jennster

        linette,

        citysiders are only allowed one and prefer daughters (more females than male ratio). ruralsiders have 4-5 kids and prefer sons. you got the numbers wrong O_o

        the end result is more and more low educated rural people working in labour.

  • the ace of books

    “What determines a person’s behavior is not their genes,
    but the environment he/she lives in~~”

    Ah, I love you, Nature/Nurture argument! Is there an option for All Of The Above?

    But in this case, I think I agree with what the poster meant: people brought up in an environment where being a security guard doesn’t actually mean securing things/people, or in an environment where nothing can be expected of a job but that it gives you money, of course, of course these people will behave as they’ve seen, and not know what there is to fix the situation. And if one does figure out a way to fix things – well, guess who rules the roost?

    • the ace of books

      Also,

      “Our people’s characters really need to be improved. What I understand is that those who work on an assembly line are not very well educated, lacking proper values, and incapable of telling good from evil, right from wrong. This causes a “more people, more guts” situation which makes them capable of anything.”

      Naw, son, don’t you think you’re better than them. Riots are riots and humans are humans – the most well-educated can still turn into the least human, and when in a mob, humans of any kind can do anything.

      Sure there’s some who choose not to participate. But sometimes you don’t have a choice – sometimes it’s that crush of humanity with emotions running high, and calm, cool analysis is not what a mob is fueled by.

      Good from evil? Right from wrong? People generally can. But people can also justify anything.

      • I agree very much.

  • hacienda

    oh look! CHIGGERS!!!

    • the ace of books

      Trombiculidae?

    • Cynic

      Hehe chiggers. I know one.

  • bert

    Just say 10pm! Why does China use military time for everything? “22 o’clock” good grief!

    The problems at the factory is the fact that China has absolutely zero law.

    Chinese aren’t fighting for anything.

    Welcome to Zhong Guo Feudalism 2012, the workers paradise! There will be an expo coming soon to some back water town that built a 100 million dollar building to house!

    • bert

      “……..to house IT!”

    • RuffledFeathers

      Just say 10pm! Why does China use military time for everything? “22 o’clock” good grief!

      Yeah, thought that was pointless too, as if to say, just in case you don’t know that 22:00 is in the evening, be sure to say ‘pm’.

      However, “22:00” is 24 hour time. “22 hundred hours” is military time

  • moop

    linette, i just made awesome 豬扒包… so damn good

    • linette

      豬扒包 is yummy. I like 豬扒包. :)
      Your wife ate it? Are you a good cook? I don’t know how to cook. I am terrible. :(

      http://lh3.ggpht.com/-dVQNbC9_ETU/SHCV3QJte2I/AAAAAAAADRM/Vp-4F49vhhY/P1100628.JPG

      • moop

        yeah, i’d say i cook pretty well, and often. i cook for my wife every monday through thursday nights and then on the weekends as well (friday is date night, so we go out). i normally cook chinese mon-thurs and western food on the weekends

        • linette

          hahah…moop, you are a good husband. :)

          I should go take some cooking class. Or else I am afraid the only food my future husband will get from me is a menu……for him to order take out. lol..

          • moop

            haha, you can always get my email from fauna if you want. i’ll send you recipes whenever you want!

          • linette

            hehehe…okay. When I set the kitchen on fire I will call you for help. I can use some recipes. Like those 15 minutes recipes. hahaha…lol.

  • Cynic

    To the undersigned; go fuck yourself(selves).

    Factory guards in china are just like any other lowly ‘person in authority’ in any part of the world (that I have first hand experience with). They either have a deep seeded insecurity, which translates into picking on people their job facilitates, or they abuse their position cause they can. It amounts to the same thing.

    Guards are not the underpinning to this article. Uneducation, which really is about state inspired and parental values as opposed to school taught wises, is the real issue. The Chinese believe and feel that something or some action unrealistic is warranted or achievable not through a sense of legitiment entitlment but from a sense of ‘I can take more’ psychology.

    They are cowards singularly but menacing in numbers. This particular situation, for the amount of members, resulted in what looks to be reasonable damages; luckily a widespread fire was not set. There would have to be a large petcentage of compatriots from the same province for that to happen.

    The root cause of the event is simply that the Workers (and most ppl in china) live in a system of cheat and inhumane facade; being a human being requires some minimal amount respect. When deprived of said respect even a dog or locust or jap raper or foreign pig would utilize a spark to set flame to an unaffilated establishment as a means of catharsis.

    In defense to what I wrote above I will say this about Foxconn (without actually knowing about their system). They are drastically better than the majority of Chinese factory employers. What is this shit about 60 hour work weeks and forced overtime. The fucking workers want this!!! And what is this garbage about foreign companies getting away with murder versus Chinese companies??? Foreign companies come under the most regimented and consistent scrutiny versus Chinese companies. And yes I know what I’m talking about having basically run a company operating in china with 700+ workers for years. In case people don’t read everything i will iterate that what I wrote in this paragraph is in response to the translated Chinese posts.

    Simply put they riot because of external aingst facilitated by a shitty environment, both state and parental, which indoctrinates them from the cradle to embrace distrust, hatred and oportunism as a means of survival and progress.

    Again the undersigned can go fuck themself (selves).

    • Cooljackal

      Whoa whoa, slow down there buddy, you are making sense too quickly there. Make a shorter two sentence statement whose implied meaning a general well traveled person will understand, and then wait for the self-described logical people to take it completely out of context and start arguing with you. Only then can you waste time going off topic then ending with the illogical people still not understanding what you wrote and agreeing to disagree.

  • Linus

    sounds like one of those concentration camps from goo’ ole’ world war II times

  • Song of the Article

    from x2 years ago

    Queen David Bowie
    -Under Pressure

    http://www.56.com/u78/v_NTYxMTE2NzU.html

  • Cynic

    When was 27 yuan for overtime ever considered a bad wage in developing areas of factory china? At least this foreign company is abiding by the wage laws in china unlike many state owned and Chinese companies.

    Bobby the article that you provided the link for stinks. It’s the dribble that people read in the west and take for fact. Most people are now less informed having read that very slanted tale.

    Let’s try to keep things real.

    • bobby dazzler

      Oh, the article was dribble? Not just any dribble, but “dribble that people read in the west and take for fact”?

      How pernicious. Of course, if you’d maybe, I don’t know, followed the source you would have found this:

      http://newspaper.jfdaily.com/xwwb/html/2012-08/27/content_870967.htm

      So hmmmmmmm. Sorry to turn your well-crafted and finely worded prose into meaningless (dare I say it?) dribble, but there you go.

      Keep it real, indeed.

      • bobby dazzler

        Also, by “dribble”, did you mean “drivel”?

        Because I actually quite like the sound of “meaningless dribble” – it conjures images of silly babies and such. Hope that was the effect you were going for and it wasn’t just a case of you forgetting which word to use or something.

        That would be fairly embarrassing, I imagine.

        • Cynic

          I meant dribble. Like from the babies mouth. A word that is synonyms with drivel. I’m looking up what pernicious means, I don’t know that word. I’ll get back to you on that and the link soon.

        • Brett Hunan

          Probably not as embarrassing as correcting someone else’s mistake in a pretentious manner.

          • bobby dazzler

            Well gee-whiz, Brett – I’m just trying to express myself, man. Those are the words that I know that help shine a light on my general position and ideas – elucidate my shit, you might say. I have no idea why I should be embarrassed about the language I used to respond; re-reading it, it summed up my feelings pretty well, for me at least. And good god, Brett – what is language for if not to express oneself?

            Also – my fuck-up earlier today whereupon I converted everyone’s posts to italics by messing up my tags was embarrassing, but I reckon could be sorted with the application of a preview system for posts.

            And then there’s “pretentious”.

            So, to anyone just tuning in, this whole thing started around 50 (or god knows) posts above, where some dude called asdf said:

            “Working conditions at Foxconn are not bad at all.”

            And my first thought was “oh fuck you”, which is barbaric and crude and such, but the truth regardless, and the mood which set my tone for what followed. Now it’s about language and subtleties, apparently, which is great.

            So. The way I write is distinct from what I write. What with all the information in our heads, expressing oneself coherently – to an approximation at best! – is tricky stuff, no doubt. Now, I’m not professing importance in what I say – I’m aware of my overall significance to a sometimes terrifying degree – but I do rather like words, so I try to choose them carefully. English’s greatest strength, in my humble opinion, is the sheer weight and volume and subtle variations of the words available to us. If I misused any words, then I suppose that’s pretentious, in a way, as I “pretended” to know the word, but I’m honestly not being disingenuous here. I hate to say it, but I’m placing the problem on your shoulders, Brett.

            When you say “pretentious”, are you saying “high-handed”, “distancing”, “haughty”, or “dickish”? Because if you are, just say it – because since I attach no particular importance to what I write here, I don’t think I’m being pretentious.. Ostentatious? Yeah fuck it – guilty as charged, but when I read your comment, I immediately thought of someone saying “what’s he using all those big words for, then?” – because you used “pretentious”.

            Which may be ironic, I’m not quite sure.

          • Brett Hunan

            You sure write a lot for a guy with nothing to say.

            No, I meant you were being pretentious, as in “while correcting someone you felt the need to make him/her feel below you.” Rather, you tried to appear more intelligent while being condescending.

            Express yourself all you like, keep it kind of funny like your reply to me and we’re all good.

        • Cynic

          Bobby, I cant read the link you provided, I dont know the chinese written language that well.

          I’m guessing you sent that to show that the english article about foxconn you previously supplied a link for was translated from it. Therefore a chinese piece.

          I was not trying to be pernicious (hateful) when writing ‘it’s the dribble that people read in the west and take for fact’. I was trying to use imagery to show that people that are far removed from a subject will take a piece written about that subject at face value. Because really they have no frame of reference. In retrospect I should not have written the sentence about everyone being less informed from reading it so bluntly. I should have candy coated it a bit for you. I certainly did not want such a strong reaction. I enjoyed it but didnt want it.

          Regardless of the source, which was apparent in the english article, they are still far removed from the actual situation; even having done the undercover 10 day job.

          i used the non existant word ‘uneducation’ in an earlier post. Feel free to berate me about that if you will.

          • bobby dazzler

            No, I like “uneducation” – it’s a good word.

  • Nitewings

    兔子急了还咬人呢。foxconn对待员工的态度不是什么新闻了,在国外也听过,但是因为大家太爱iphone了,也就没引起什么风波。就像现在一样,国外新闻都不怎么报道。他们对待员工跟过去英美industrial revolution时对待那些indentured servants 没什么区别。供吃供住,给点儿工资,比奴隶算是高一级吧。
    ——————————–
    not surprised. it’s not the first time foxconn has had problem with its workers. they r all pent up in that “prison” and work all day. yes technically it’s just work and they can leave. but once they leave where else they gon get jobs? pretty much treated like indentured servants or something, one step up from slavery, cause they do get some minimal wage.

  • Foreign Devil

    It’s ironic that a former Communist country won’t allow workers to form unions and be able to do civilized bargaining for more rights and compensation. Developing countries needs labor unions in order to fight to get the level of labor rights we enjoy in the West.

  • Yet Chinese buy iphones religiously, said product is even advertised above this comment box.

    Will people ever boycott the enslavement of their brethren?

  • JR

    In other words, they are complaining about what “we” warned them about over 20 years ago. If you keep your population dumb, through a combination of a shitty parrot learning education system, constant propaganda on TV and newspapers, blocking out most of the internet, controlling user comments and outlawing any thinking outside the box, then all you can do is compete to be the lowest paid factory workers. It was fine being factory workers 10-20 years ago, but “we” warned you, China. We warned you that your people would get sick of working in factories, we told you to shape up, to stop controlling minds, but you didn’t listen. Now it’s time to reap the rewards, I’m going to be laughing my ass off when the civil war starts.

    • Hypocrite much? Mind control and censorship is just as bad in America. There is no difference. Please shut up.

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