Ye Shiwen’s London Olympic Gold Questioned, Chinese Reactions

China's Ye Shiwen poses with her gold medal after winning the women's 200m individual medley final during the London 2012 Olympic Games at the Aquatics Centre July 31, 2012. REUTERS/David Gray

On Sina Weibo:

@东南快报: #London Olympics# Ye Shiwen: Definitely did not use drugs: Foreign journalists questioned intensely, “So did you use drugs or not?” Ye Shiwen: “Definitely not!” and asked back: “So many athletes from other countries have won the gold medal before without ever being suspected, why do I have to be questioned like this when I get one?” Sun Yang also strongly supported his fellow athlete, “The American team can win so many gold medals, why can’t China? If we were to go question the United States, how would they feel?”

Gold medalist Ye Shiwen of China with silver medalist Alicia Coutts (left) of Australia and bronze medalist Caitlin Leverenz of the U.S. (right) on the podium during the women's 200m individual medley victory ceremony at the London 2012 Olympic Games.

Comments on Sina Weibo:

高大cute:

Haven’t there been more Americans banned for doping? Especially in track and field.

癫疯狂:

Ye Shiwen, jia you! China has the ability to be number one!!

于美梦:

Jealous, envious, and unhappy about it, why bother with them? As a Chinese person, there’s only one word for now: Bliss!

小老头er:

Ye Shiwen, well done! Truly giving face [a credit to] Chinese people, embarrassing foreigners. Ye Shiwen, be strong and don’t be afraid, you have strong support behind you, don’t pay any attention to the stinky farts those butts are letting out. China will not only be a powerful nation in sports, it will also be a powerful military and economic nation that sooner or later bring those discontented countries to their knees.

等美女的小帅哥:

This is what power is, it can’t be helped, foreigners are envious and jealous, we should be magnanimous. Chinese people too can have the extraordinary.

绣__:

This is definitely an example of being sore losers and we can completely understand their jealousy.

WeL_淑娟:

[怒][怒] Retarded idiotic foreign journalist. This is pure jealously, envy, and hatred.

无敌暴暴兔:

Watching the 400m race, I nearly cried from excitement, it was incredible. [赞]

永远i开心:

Are our athletes not given basic English trained when they go abroad? For example: fuck you, sob, shirt

听画看风:

Europeans have never been able to get away from racism, and when they talk about freedom and democracy it is even more laughable. When one is only democratic to oneself, that isn’t called “democratic”.

唯爱_the_Angel丶婷:

[怒]What basis do you guys have for accusing her, you guys should just apologize to Ye Shiwen. [哼]

快乐大本营贴吧:

Why can’t Chinese people get gold medals in swimming? Why can’t Chinese people break Olympic and World records? This kind of questioning others and giving them grief for getting the gold medal by certain foreign media, just what kind of mentality do they have? Chinese people are no inferior to foreigners!

搁浅半月礁:

Actually, its the journalist who has been doping too much.

潘璟婷__:

Exactly! When Phelps took eight gold medals that year, how come you guys didn’t go say he was doping?!!

葵梓阳_Suk:

“>I extremely despise those people who are always skeptical of our countrymen. [鄙视][鄙视] It’s obvious they look down on China. Why are people abroad so impolite these days?

但丁等龙宝龙年抱龙专:

I really want to slap those two foreign journalists, the tone of their questioning and suspicions are filled with arrogance and prejudice. Little Ye is too young and honest. If it were someone with a more volatile personality who was responding, they’d choke those two stupid idiots until they wouldn’t dare show their face. Having successively won two gold medals and successively broken the World and Olympic records, how infuriating! [挖鼻屎]

Helen_Ma的小窝:

Those foreign dogs, that’s how they are, ignore them, continue jia you, let actions speak for themselves. [哈哈]

Cjy_陳健瑩:

[哈哈] Foreigners sure are slow in evolving, do they still think Chinese people are the Sick Man of Asia?

Gherish萍萍90后:

Only one thing to say: If you can’t bear to lose, then don’t compete. Slandering other people will only make yourself even more shameful.

窝要做后妈:

The truth/facts have already been established, why haven’t they apologized? Apologize! Apologize! Apologize! Apologize! Apologize!

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has already tested and cleared Ye Shiwen.

What do you think?

China's Ye Shiwen (L) stands with her gold medal on the podium, next to bronze medallist Caitlin Leverenz of the U.S., during the women's 200m individual medley victory ceremony at the London 2012 Olympic Games at the Aquatics Centre July 31, 2012.    REUTERS/David Gray

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  • kou bei dave

    drinking kou bei on my sofa,

    too lazy to turn on the tv to watch the olympics

    but congrats to this young lady

    • Interested

      In ancient Greek time, no body gave a shit to 2nd (silver) and 3ird (bronze) places which were considered losers in good old days.

      • Tadd

        Anyone have any links as to where I can watch the Olympics live? I’m living in China.. so no nbc links.. kinda looking for live stream from a Chinese-side website.

        • blackflagnation

          try http://www.thefirstrow.eu/

          of course, not all Olympic sports will be available, but I think you can find enough to watch

        • Germandude

          Tadd, you might want to check for “PPLive”. It’s full of olympics.

          • Tadd

            @blackflagnation & @Germandude

            Thank you gentlemen!

        • El Puma R.

          Yeah I know how you feel…

          just like when I came to china in 2008. If the players are not chinese, CCTV won’t broadcast it. Back then they had half of their channels on it, but now it’s even worse, ’cause they’ve got only one channel, and if it isn’t chinese, they won’t show it.

          Funny thing is that girl looks like a guy and.. cough cough (some new kind of undetectable steroids) bla bla bla haha… no… couldn’t be. What’s hillarious is how much Chinese people love to victimize themselves… I’m from Argentina and when Maradona showed positive in USA ’94 we just said… “No…not again”.

          Check out the olympics in the 80′s and 90′s how some USSR athletes looked back then… when people didn’t know ’bout steroids. Two things I’m absolutely sure: one, chinese people can’t swim for shit, ever. two, there is always some new undetectable drug.

          Anyway, since when do we live in a fair world ?

          • linette

            El Puma R.

            Two things I’m absolutely sure: one, chinese people can’t swim for shit, ever……..

            Sometimes I think you are just trolling. I remember back in my high school years in USA. The kids who made it into the swimming team were mostly Chinese and white kids. They are really good swimmers.

            I think the reason why now China is coming up in the swimming sport is because they finally decided to dominate this sport and focus more funding and resources training. A country with 1.4 billions you think they can’t find talented swimmers? They used to dominate gymnastic now they focus on swimming. I think they also like basketball too.

            Wait until India start focusing their funds on olympic training. They too will have plenty very good and talented athletes coming out from their 1.3 billion population.

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            I’m not homosexual, but down in Singapore, the Chinese guys (SG being 80% Chinese ethnicity) have substantially larger feet than Caucasoids. And broader too. This would certainly help in propulsion, and indeed I’ve only ever noticed an incredible enthusiasm for swimming down on the equator.

      • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

        In 786BC when the Olympics were invented, no-one gave a hoot about Gold medals as they tucked into fine wines and salads drizzled with fine olive oil. Back then the Earth was tilted such that you could well below our modern Equator at the Universe and Earth was “new”. Now we have “social media” and we know that Jesus changed things a bit.

  • Chao

    I am just wondering why so many people keep saying that Ye swam faster than man, why don’t you check the time accurately? actually during the whole 400 meters Rochte was faster and absolutely took less time than Ye. Please check it on the internet. however, the final 50m Ye was faster than Rochte. (Ye:28.93sec Rochte:29.1sec) but is it surprising that female is faster than male in specific split? apparently not. I can easily find an example, please check this:http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/other-sports/rebecca-adlington-wins-second-medal-1109334

    on the 9th paragraph “However, the Briton responded and a final length of 28.91secs saw her overhaul Frii to claim the title Adlington’s medal follows her gutsy display last Sunday when she scraped into the 400m freestyle final and took silver.“ And also, in last Saturday’s 400 male medley game, if you check the time, there were four swimmers faster than Rochte in final 50m, the fastest was Japanese swimmer 27.87secs which means Rochte’s final 50m was not that good.

    These days, mass media just focused on the last 50m and created huge controversy to mislead people, what a shame! Please, Please, do some homework before saying misleading stuff. Thank you.

    • pada

      Mr. Ken Wood the Australian coach for the girl said the Chinese, especially the women, keep their weight down and that is the “whole secret” to their success.

      “Fat cats don’t fight; they sleep in front of the fire. And there are no fat cats in China,” he said. “There’s not one Chinese girl I’ve seen with weight on. … That is a huge advantage for Chinese. Most of our girls, the Aussie girls, are carrying too much weight.”

      He said Ye’s power-to-weight ratio is particularly good, and that helps explain how she was able to rip through the last 50 of her 400 IM in 28.93 seconds, compared with Lochte’s 29.10.

      http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/olympics/wireStory/column-chinas-swimming-success-16888251

      I am pretty sure western girls could make an even better record if they were not that raw fat, or pure ugly, lol!

      • mr. wiener

        Agreed with everything you said …..until you got to the last line.
        Never mind Pada ,you’ll meet a nice foreign girl one day.

        Any chances of you posting your manly features so we can all get an idea of what those unlucky foreign girls are missing out on?

        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          Yeah, so we can all “lol!”

          • mr. wiener

            Were I an unfair man I’d remark: ” Really you don’t find our foreign women attractive? That’s a terrible shame………..because we really like yours!”

            Fortunately I’m not that unfair.

        • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

          Down in Singapore we’ve got more of those crazy chicken outlets founded by the army guy with the white beard, and those burger places ran by that red and yellow clown, than any other city – per capita and per sq km. I could look around the office and identify blubber on my CN/SG/MY/VN/TH colleagues…but I won’t because I’m approaching lard-arse status myself…thank heavens my GF is a perma-thin type…

          • mr. wiener

            Join an over 40′s rugby club. Plenty of those in Singapore. That’ll trim the lard off your arse.
            See you at the next fatboy 10s rugby comp in Angeles?

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            Too much of an old and decrepid expat only capable of lifting Carlsberg Gold and checking the depth of the GF. Ruggers will just end up paralysing the remaining sinews capable of making regional phone calls and tapping away at the computer. I need to do that for dollar-denomination beer and woman tokens.

          • BigCAD

            Mr Weiner…..is Mr Sausage…the penny drops.

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            When you are introducing Mr Wiener at expat socials, to your wife or GF, just say: “Darling…Meet Mr Meat…” Should go down a treat…

          • mr. wiener

            You a baboon or a Hasher Bigcad?

          • mr. wiener

            Long loose, full of juice and big enough to fuck a moose.

        • pada

          wiener, since some of them western girls left good memory to me, in fact i am not against them, if they dont stink like skunks or whiskercat. you’ve got a sweet chinese wife, you must know the difference if you didnt married for other reason, for a visa to commie country?

          back to olympic topic—- in fact i am grateful to uk which re-built the pool finally in right length so that our doped swimmers dont have to brave the waves in channels. uk also taught us how to save energy by killing torch flame once in a while and how to look glorious by filling stadium with soldiers. but i like the one-eye moscots the best which look so much like million cctv in london and which has finally lured me to believe your big brother is much bigger. ;)

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            See? I knew “Turner” was Pada. They both called me “whiskercat”. Pada, you so crazy.

          • pada

            Did that “Turner” call you “skunk” too? I thought only in dog’s eyes, not in cat’s, all people looked the same.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Haha shut up, Turner. You’re in need of new material like your mom is in need of a new mattress.

          • El Puma R.

            Pada

            congratulations on your countrywoman’s flawless victory.

            but Pada, Pada… just because one skinny bitch won a 400m doesn’t make all chinese good swimmers. A little haze and y’all open your umbrellas and flee screaming in pain.

            Went to the beach and saw you crying and running in panic because a gigantic 30cm.(about one foot) wave was about to crush you into the depths of the yellow sea. And better for my amusement, you just don’t know how ridiculous you look shouting “help” while you wear those stupid xing yang yang floaters around your waist.

            I’d be careful in the next few weeks, there could be some people drown under 30cm waves who died by extreme pride of their national swimming team.

            Also showering everyday doesn’t hurt that much, bro

  • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

    I am ashamed of the Western media’s miserable reporting where a great many reporters and anchormen have attempted to slur Ye Shiwen. Some former athletes on the Olympic Committee such as Lord Moynehan have been properly neutral and considerate, but the newscasters appear to be trying to cover up Syria (Caucasian geographical) and Euro (Caucasian economical) with poorly-disguised racism which only causes hurt and loss of goodwill.

    • Andao

      Or maybe her performance was genuinely suspicious! They all compared it to the previous case of an Irish female swimmer who did cheat. I know, I know, China is always the victim.

      • kw

        where did you get that from?
        you can compared anything to anything..
        so now every time USA create some record ,we must genuinely question them.
        after all ,they have long history of drug cheat.
        oh no,they are clean because they are westerner..

        • Chom

          He gave the example of Ireland which is a Western country. And his example is a good one. At that time, everyone in Ireland was very happy with three fold medals and one bronze. But we didn’t know anything about swimming, just like most of the Chinese commentators don’t.

          At that time the other competitors were questioning whether she was clean or not. In the end it was found she did take drugs.

        • b. prichard

          Feel free to question them! Plenty of American athletes have cheated in the past, and when a record gets completely smashed with a performance that seems out of line with past results, there is no reason not to be skeptical.

          The boohooing and acting like victims need to stop. Pretending like the Chinese swimming team doesn’t have a history of doping is pretty self-serving. So does American track. Feel free to question them. Americans aren’t going to cry about it if you do.

          • DKD

            I’ll wait for the Americans to stop acting like racist trash first.

          • A GUY

            She may have or may not have been doping I don’t know enough about the topic to say. I think that the accusations are poor sportsmanship if anything, not racism. The only unfair generalizations I see here are about westerners. First the comments they mentioned were American’s why do so many people accuse the whole “west” like we get together and decide to belittle China at every turn. Secondly the people saying this are a few people associated with the sport and even those comments have been disavowed by official representatives. Lastly have you ever been to America?? Do you know many American’s?? Most of us are pretty open-minded and culturally literate, sure there are bigots and retards here too, but where are there not those types of people? Certainly not in China, in all my experiences with Chinese people, mind you these have all been well educated socialites I have heard the most derogatory purely racist trash about every group under the sun. I will not apologize for your misconceptions about yet another group of people DKD.

            Well maybe I’ll wait for the Chinese to reach the level of racial understanding and multiculturalism of America first.

      • Bob

        Get your facts straight Michelle smith was never caught for cheating during the 1996 Olympics. The Athlete is clean until proven otherwise.

        • donnachadh

          @Bob This is true, but she was later banned for two years. Get ALL the facts.

      • XiaoHei

        Drugs alone cannot make an athlete win a medal. Most, if not all, athletes are doped these days. Do you think those women sprinters have well-shapen manly looking thighs and arms through training alone? They’ve done roids like Testesterone and HGH prior to the competition to increase the male hormones in their bodies. There is a cleaning process done after a dosage where they do a post steroid cycle to remove traces of the steroids. Its the same with women bodybuilders.

        It takes a lot of hard work, including drugs, to win Olympic medals.

        • http://www.bestvpninchina.com Rod

          Doing hard drugs at work gets me Olympic medals?

          Sweet.

      • Tony

        The big difference between Smith and Ye is that Ye emerged as a world class swimmer at the age of 14. Smith emerged as a Olympic champion in her 20s. She was a fine swimmer before that but never near the level she achieved until 1995.

        Ye is an excellent swimmer and I see no reason to suspect her any more than the 15 year old Lithuanian swimmer who emerged right before our eyes or Missy Franklin. Plus all this talk of smashing the 400 IM record is misleading – she beat the old by a 1.02 seconds. The progression of the 400 IM has lots of examples of even larger margins.

    • Zappa Frank

      Syria is not caucasian at all, what ever it mean caucasian by the way, in europe nobody use such world. Moreover were americans that complained about, not europeans..

      • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

        Syria is right next to the Caucassus – also known as the Caucasian mountain range – the world’s most voluminous and impenetrable range which took Marco Polo over a decade to get through. Please tune in to CSI. Scientifically white people are most definitely Caucasians. To the north they are Scandinavian, and to the south they are Mediterranean. Thanks.

        • Zappa Frank

          caucassus is an area and not related at all with what, in usa maybe, you say are caucasian people. Think that syria is somehow culturally or racialy related to europe is false. Even more than europe want to hide something that happen in syria.. why?
          take a map because if you say that syria is next to caucassus i can say in the same way that greece is next to ukraina, italy is next to poland, spain is next to germany.. and so on.. in between syria and caucassus there is turkey.. anyway this is not the point.

        • sptme

          Sryria is about 700km from the Caucasus mountains. you would have to go though Turkey and Gorgia to get to them.

  • Andao

    Her teammate who was also 16 and planning on doing the same event DID get busted for doping last month, so I think it’s a reasonable question. Especially when you consider her extreme manlyness, and the method in which she won.

    Aren’t all Chinese athletes trained together from birth? It would be odd that only 1 swimmer would dope while the rest would not. Maybe she was so close to the cutoff that she thought it would help.

    • jin

      “Her teammate who was also 16 and planning on doing the same event DID get busted for doping last month” give me link for this.

      • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

        This always was a time to armour ourselves against trolls. Me? I’ve ensure my anti-troll vaccinations are completely up to date, and I can feel my immunity working beautifully, as these hunky muscular trolls tear into willowy native people from China and South-East Asia… *Popcorn*

        • mr. wiener

          Where can I get some of those vaccinations or should I just chew raw garlic?

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            The famous Centre for Anti Trolling Science (C.A.T.S) based in Oxford, England. They can despatch a nasal spray via international recorded delivery straight to your apartment. Should do the trick marvellously. Just the placebo of waiting for it to arrive in the post should be effective enough. :-)

      • sonny

        it’s true. her teammate li zhesi (李哲思) was caught using blood-boosting drugs earlier this year and thus banned from the games — even xinhua reported it. here are your links:

        english: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/10/c_131642593.htm

        chinese: http://news.xinhuanet.com/video/2012-06/11/c_123261820.htm

      • Andao
        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          Haha Jin will never reply to any of these.

          • jin

            wait you mean Jin or me???
            I don’t reply to this cause i ask for the link.

      • Bobby

        Ye Shiwen was a former team-mate of Chinese swimmer Li Zhesi, who was barred from the Olympics over blood-booster EPO.

    • jin

      if you look at the history of olympics, only 11 chinese athletes used doping, while USA did it 75 times.
      if you look at how serious the chinese government are about drugs……
      and give me the proof of what you said, cause youre just a bad troll.

      • pada

        America won 214 gold in Olympic swiming history while China got only 7. Then CNN made a big fuss about how much this seven hurt their butts.

      • sonny

        please check my above post for the links.

        also, your numbers are false/misleading:

        1. ad hominem — the history of US doping is irrelevant when proving ye’s innocence.
        2. history of chinese swimming scandals since the 90′s:
        -seven swimmers tested positive for shortly after ’94 olympics.
        -four swimmers tested positive at ’98 world championships. coach caught smuggling hormone one week prior.
        -one swimmer (record holder) tested positive prior to ’08 olympics.
        -five junior swimmers tested positive in ’09.
        -ye’s teammate tested positive earlier this year.
        (sources: daily mail, xinhua)

        disclaimer: although andao’s claim was true, please understand i strongly disapprove of the racist banter at the end of his comment. my remarks are in no way intended as a slight against china or chinese people.

        • Andao

          It’s not racist, it’s how they train. Ye said publicly that she was chosen in elementary school because she had big hands and feet. They are trained as cohorts at special sports schools for the Olympics, just like the USSR. What is racist about that?

          • sonny

            the tone of “trained together from birth” seemed a tad in the racist department. apologies if i misunderstood.

          • hess

            How the fuck can you make up “trained together from birth” as racist?

          • sonny

            @hess i read the sarcastic tone as suggesting that there was lack of humanity among chinese athletes. again, i apologize to andao if i was mistaken.

    • http://www.bestvpninchina.com Rod

      Extreme manliness…shit…I get busted for that all the time.

  • Guang Xiang

    I’m not an expert at these sporting events but couldn’t they just do a quick blood test before and after each race?

    • Andao

      They do. She came back clean. So I guess she is, but there is suspicion that it could have also been an undetectable drug. This would be more likely in a state-sponsored steroid program where the doping could be very sophisticated. A Chinese Olympic swimming doc came out yesterday and said doping was a regular part of the training regimen in the 80s and 90s, but until anyone finds any evidence, I guess she’s just really good at swimming.

      • Xero

        Its also worth noting that people use performance enhancing drugs and other doping techniques in the off season and try to flush it out of their system. Just simply testing for drugs before and after the event will do nothing.

      • Chad

        She wasn’t even born in the 80s and she was a mere child in the 90s buddy. Tip: This ain’t the 90s.

        • PeterScriabin

          Is there any Guiness Book of Records category for “Shortest non-Sequitur”?

          • Chad

            Exactly.

          • PeterScriabin

            OK, I’ll buy it, little Pekinese attack dog. How does your comment about Ye Shiwen’s age (generation) bear on Andao’s remark of the “previous” of the culture whence Ye Shiwen?

          • Chad

            I thought it was pretty simple, but apparently not for you. His comment on the doping program in the 80s/90s has no bearing on a girl who was not even on the swim team in that time period. Clear? Yeesh.

          • PeterScriabin

            has no bearing on a girl who was not even on the swim team in that time period.

            So it’s not occurred to you that:

            (1) Olympic coaching team policy in one period might be a guide to future team policy
            (2) Ye Shiwen, as a team member, has to toe the line of team policy (think hard, here, Chad – do you also think the badminton teams just decided to up and throw their matches, no input at all from the coaches? Double-yeesh, with knobs on.)

            [And, just for the record, I quite agree that the Chinese get singled out for more negative attention from other countries, than - say - the Koreans or Indonesians or Japanese. But, apart from our scandalously misguided prejudice, isn't that due exactly to the awful impression of Chinese culture that the Chinese themselves have generated over the years since (at least) 1949?]

          • Chad

            Nope, it’s 2012 today PeterScriabin. We don’t assume the US is going to nuke Japan today because they did decades ago. Think for a second. I’m trying to use the simplest analogies here for you because we both know you find these concepts tough to understand.

            Here’s a closer one so you’ll understand a bit better. We don’t scrutinize American track because of marion jones and all the other sprinters involved in the doping scandal with their coach Graham. Obviously, she and her teamates didn’t act alone.

    • Chom

      They do test all gold medallists. Its just that the testers are always behind. If she or anyone else is using drugs at this Olympics, if it is a new drug, it may be years before she will be caught. Not sure if they keep samples to test in the future or not.

      I think the Chinese comments above are missing one point. She is being suspected because she basically wasn’t that accomplished before the Olympics. You could say she came out of nowhere. I forget his name, but two days ago a male Chinese swimmer won a silver medal. Nobody questioned him because presumably he was consistently one of the top swimmers in his event even before the Olympics. So they are off the mark this time when they say it is anti-China.

      • kw

        wasn’t accomplished?
        please.check the facts..
        she won world championship last year..
        it is anti china..started by the media in the west..

        • Chom

          You could be right, but not 100% certain she is clean.

          Last year she did win in the 200m, but in the 400m her time was 4:35.15 compared to her time in London of 4:28:43 That’s almost 7 seconds difference.

          Compare that to Elizabeth Beisel who won silver in London. Last year she won the 400m in the world championships with a time of 4:31.78 In London her time when winning silver was 4:31.27 That’s an improvement of .51 seconds.

          Compare an improvement of almost 7 seconds to an improvement of just .51 seconds and you know why some people are legitimately questioning her.

          I’m not sure what her personal best was before London, but just going on the information above, it is reasonable to question such a huge improvement.

          • Zappa Frank

            is resonable for a 16 years old girl to have such improvement. Anyway is true you cannot be 100% sure, but the same is for everyone.

          • kw

            read this..

            We’re all best served by a step back at this point. Tarring Ye with the doping brush by association isn’t even close to fair. If this was an Australian athlete, we’d be mortified by the mere suggestion and celebrating the athletic vigour of our bronzed youth. It wasn’t an insinuation Rice had to deal with when she clocked her world record in 2008, which was at the time an absurdly fast result.
            Earlier that year, Rice shaved a startling six seconds off her personal best time to hit 4.31.46 at the Australian trials. American Katie Hoff reclaimed the mark a few months late before Rice countered at the Beijing Games, reducing it to below 4.30 for the first time. In contrast, people seized on the fact Ye reduced her PB by five seconds to claim the new mark of 4.28.43 as genuine grounds for suspicion.

            Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/olympics/swimming-london-2012/dont-be-too-quick-to-question-chinese-success-20120731-23b6j.html#ixzz22HwMnL1k

            even without that,this olympic has another name that has improve alot..check out the lithuanian swimmer..
            it’s the way they single out her that makes people react..

            of course we can’t be sure whether there is some advanced undetected stuff..but it’s sad that the first thing that people ask is whether she is on drug. does people question the lithuanian swimmer?

          • Chom

            I don’t know, maybe it is reasonable for her to improve that much. I guess only a professional swimmer would know for sure if a 7 second improvement is possible.

            Yes, the same is true for everyone, but not everyone has made such a spectacular improvement.

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            Some great stats guys – thanks for the positivity. Water is a fickle beast compared to the air which a 100m runner cuts through, and I really do hope Ye Shiwen has simply shown fascinating and novel techniques which the swimming world can pass on to all of us. Can’t wait for the in-depth scientific analysis of the physique and physics after the games have closed. Ciao.

          • jin

            oh wow….. chom…..
            you can not be 100% certain that ALL THE ATHLETES are clean……. and stephanie rice time for 400m in 2007 was 4:41.19 while her time for 400m in 2008 olympic was 4:29.45
            did she use doping? thats a fking 11,74 sec different.

          • Chinese

            Check your facts before you speak.

            And don’t retreat to “I don’t know” and “I’m not sure” after being slapped in the face.

          • Chad

            Chom: Why don’t you check Rice’s huge improvements over the years then? If you don’t know a damn thing about swimming then why are you even commenting and hell even tarring and feathering this girl who has obviously worked her ass off to be the best in the world?

        • sonny

          @kw i honestly don’t think it’s only anti-china. that may be part of it, in fact i’m almost sure it is in some cases, but there are certainly legitimate reasons to be suspicious. i know that none of these are damning individually, but taken all together i don’t think you can be angry w/ people for being suspicious, much less call them racist:

          1. history of chinese swim team.
          -90′s scandals
          -record holder busted before beijing
          -teammate caught just months ago
          2. abnormally strong increase in performance.
          3. speed @ end of race was simply anomalous.

          tl;dr: i’m not saying she’s guilty, i’m saying you can’t reasonably be angry at someone for being suspicious.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Maybe at the end of the race, she looked up and saw that hong qi piao piao staring down at her and her heart filled with the joy and warmth of a thousand dragon boat festivals or Chinese New Years or whatever, gracing her with the energy and will to glide through the water like a glorious PLA torpedo.

          • Zappa Frank

            if you would please read the second post of Chao you may can see that seep @ at the end of race wasn’t so anomalus, as before another woman and many men did better in a 400m competition.
            the increase of performance is a lot, but not uncommon, i read about an australian girl (sorry don’t remember name of where.. i can look for later) increased of 11″ her performance, but not suspected of doping. we’re talking about a 16years old, of course she can improve and when she does she improves a lot.

          • sonny

            @Zappa Frank i read your link, but i’m not a swimming expert and there are a lot of experienced analysts suggesting that it was at the very least uncommon.
            again, i’m not saying that any of the things she did were impossible or that she’s guilty at all, that’s not my point. all i’m saying is that i can see how an average/reasonable person could be suspicious of her performance, and i don’t think we should assume these people are racist or anti-china.

          • jin

            @sonny,
            please give me that link for the teammate caught just months ago. and…… MONTHS AGO??? olympic just started…….
            2. what do you mean abnormally strong increase??? if you look at her performances, you will see that shes winning most of them. and how about stephanie rice? her time for 400m in 2007 was 4:41.19 while her time for 400m in 2008 olympic was 4:29.45 did she use doping? thats a fking 11,74 sec different.
            3. it happend before with others, so why is it strange that she does it?
            thats not being suspicious, she got accused using doping.

          • Capt. WED

            @sonny

            the other day you called me a troll. How come you don’t say anything when someone said China is really nationalistic because olympics on Chinese t.v. is all focused on China.

            Racist & bigotry & ethnocentrism

        • red scarf

          To be honest all the stuff in British media, apart form the mail, seem to be pro-Ye, all others stories that seem to have negative are in relational to that USA couches remarks and the history of doping in Chinese swimming

          Given that China’s swimming teams history of doping is bad. A vet. of swimming who also knows the doping scandals of the East Germans jump may jump too conclusions when hes sees something he thinks as odd.

          Now the thing with doping, in training you could take steroids to build muscle mass faster up and stop taking them like 2 months before a test or however long it takes for them to clear your system, retain muscle and pass a urine drug test.

          • sonny

            @jin
            1. sure, here are the links:
            english: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/10/c_131642593.htm
            chinese: http://news.xinhuanet.com/video/2012-06/11/c_123261820.htm
            2. again, i didn’t say it was an “impossible” increase, i understand it has been done before, but i said “abnormal” as in “rare” — and in swimming, breaking personal bests/world records by significant margins is in fact rare.
            3. yes, i understand that it has happened with others, but again, it has been very rare.
            my point is that when you have several very rare things happening all in the same run along with a modern sporting environment that is full of doping cases, regardless of nationality, it is not at all unreasonable to be suspect her of using performance enhancing drungs.

            @wed
            if you weren’t trolling my apologies, i’m new to this site, but you were posting about the olympics in a thread about education in hong kong, so it seemed to be disingenuous.
            anyways, i never said chinese tv wasn’t nationalistic — i certainly wouldn’t argue with you about that.

          • mimomimo

            Yes! Most the press was supportive. However, that doesn’t run with the Chinese media, so they decided to depict otherwise.

            When I saw that swim live on TV, I didn’t know it was a Chinese girl making that ridiculous break, but my initial thoughts were, ‘Someone’s been doping…’

            Her second race performance was very different. Not so much of a lead, even though she was swimming half the distance. Almost like she’d been told to calm down a little.

            My suspicion is that between 2011 and 2012 she was, perhaps without her knowing and definitely without her parent’s and team mate’s knowing, given some steroids to gain muscle mass and strength for a few months. She then retains this change in her physique and build on it in training.

            I knew the test would come back negative. It did for Flo-Jo in the 80s and she blatantly took something when she was training for the games.

            I actually believe that Ye’s team mate’s (Li Zheshi) dismissal was tactical, to ‘prove’ China is against doping. Li was the number one swimmer and was dismissed in June 2012. What luck that Ye, choice number 2, happened to be such a fabby fab swimmer, a world record smasher and even better than Li!

            But whatever, I believe poor Ye is innocent in all this and the suspicions ought be aimed at her coaches and the officials involved in the team selection.

            Lots of people seem to be forgetting China’s age controversy at 2000 & 2008 with the female gymnasts who were still practically foetuses. Lots of protesting and huffing, but it’s been confirmed they used underage gymnasts in 2000.

          • jin

            nice story minomino, but its a load of crap.

      • Zappa Frank

        that’s false, she won already a gold medal and a silver medal in world’s competitions.. she has a good record, she doesn’t come out from the blue
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Shiwen

      • Bono the tax dodger

        I think they keep the samples for eight years so that when new technologies become available or new drugs are discovered they can re-test. This is what happened to Lance Armstrong I believe.

  • 彭涛

    I understand why people are up set with the media. However, in the US there are doping accusations all the time. Even an athlete like Lance Armstrong can’t escape them… I don’t know why there has to be a nationalist spin on everything. Im kind surprised at myself for posting anyway. I could honestly care less who is the fastest swimmer in the world…Phelps can suck it too

    • xiaohouzi

      Well said!

    • Charlykay

      Yup, well said.
      Chinese people seems to have a serious inferiority complex with occidentals. Look at the comments : ” Chinese people are no inferior to foreigners! ” etc.
      It feels like they are completely obssesed with that, whereas in western countries, we never talk about how inferior they could be! It doesn’t go both ways !!
      Honnestly, who considers chinese people are inferior? That’s nonsense. And as you said, there are accusations to everybody, every nationalities.
      Too much pride, too nationalistic, that’s sad.

      • mr. wiener

        Lots of people [occidentals] think that Asians are inferior. Have you ever read any of the comments on Yahoo, or youtube?
        There are nationalistic wankers of every stripe and color. All convinced [or trying to convince themselves] of their own superiority and install fear of the foreigner, the alien or the different.
        We are not so different after all :(

        • Charlykay

          It’s probably in our genes

        • Yesway

          Yahoo commenters think everyone is inferior to themselves.

          People from other countries, other states, other towns, gay, women, listening to different music, different education level (too high-arrogant, too low-dumb).

          They are all inferior according to the losers of Yahoo.

      • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

        In terms of this Occidental vs. Oriental way of competing, whether in sports, international finance or military might, you see a tremendous advantage from ASSUMING you’re inferior in say the 1990s, to improving in the 00s, and even more in the 10s. This is the root of having to shout from the rooftops that China is different now – the decade-by-decade mega-changes according to long-term plans with starts, middles and ends. But look how many Occidental nations don’t have plans, such as Spain and Greece, because they assume the ancient status quo will pull them through!

      • Chinese

        Because those people actually think they are inferior.

      • donscarletti

        We are entering into an era where China routinely tops the medal tally every year. This should not surprise anyone, the Soviet Union topped the medal tally every single year they did not boycott, even once after they officially broke up. It comes from having a large population, a powerful economy and the power to force people to train every day.

        I don’t see why anyone, apart from maybe Americans should be resentful about this, it is the way of things, and China’s much better than Soviet Union.

      • Chris

        Perhaps, when that’s not what Chinese people hear all the time, they wouldn’t get defensive? *shrug*.

    • sonny

      赞 +1

  • Jeff

    yeah we all know China would NEVER cheat at anything. Now let me get back into my BYD copy car and leave the office to go home. (ps thank you Toyota for making such a great car! And thanks BYD for copying it and making the price so affordable.)

  • eattot

    This is pure jealously, envy, and hatred.
    china pro will be the no.1.
    happy!

    • Chom

      Eattot, I really don’t think is is jealousy or envy of China. Since 2008 until now, many people are still suspecting Bolt of using drugs when he won the 100 and 200m in BeiJing, so it is wrong to say they suspect her just because she is Chinese.

      Second, a male Chinese swimmer won silver two days ago. Nobody is suspecting him. If those journalists really were anti-China and just jealous, why aren’t they also suspecting him?

      Its because his performance wasn’t so extraordinary compared to what he has done before. Ye Shiwen, broke the world record by over 1 second when she won her gold. That is not normal in swimming!

      • sonny

        compared to all the media bashing lance armstrong got during his cycling days this is really nothing. i won’t say that nationality is completely a non-issue, but you’re right, it’s more than reasonable for people to be suspicious.

    • Johnny Basic

      Snigger!

      How are the men’s football and volleyball teams doing so far, by the way?

      • jeffli

        I think the Chinese men are doing great at “wallyball” what do you think?
        good chance in featherfurball though.
        ping pong? – Venezuelans or Americans.
        One meter air rifle – Chinese!

        Look about air rifle……… 10 meters? the length of my apartment?
        are you serious? I used to play with air rifles when I was a kid! I shot a flying sparrow at 30 meters!
        c’mon…really My mother can throw plates that far! accuacy of +/- 1/2 meter in the x/y/z planes!

        10 meter air rifle? seriously? whats next ping pong balls and laughing clowns?
        Darts and balloons- no too scared of the ballon busting!

        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          One meter air rifle? There’s such a thing? Hell, that’s about the distance of the actual rifle itself.

        • linette

          I like watching ping pong also. It is a super fast sport. You can’t even see the ball. All you see is white thing speeding back and forth between two players. Crazy super fast.

          • Jin

            linette of course you love ling pong..how many can you fit inside you?

          • mr. wiener

            I think this counts as trolling and harassment. Linette is well able to look after herself but your posts are mean spirited, off topic and childishly vindictive. The moderators will be informed.

          • Jin

            mr. wiener “trolling and harassment..mean spirited, off topic and childishly vindictive.” maybe you like to read some of the comments she had written on me and other people who opinion she does not agree with?

            also maybe you like to hold that mirror to your ugly mug also..you are the biggest troll on here. Create conflict then cry the victim..go suck on your mother tits no one cares.

          • linette

            Jin, enough with your craziness. You are a clown. Your comments make no sense. How can people take you seriously.

          • mr. wiener

            I’m well aware of the interplay between you two and that she gives as good as she gets, that however is beside the point.
            At the moment you are following her around and firing off extremely nasty and rather stupid one liners…In my view that amounts to harassment.
            I have held the mirror up to myself many a time and am ok with what I behold.I’m aware I’m far from perfect, but I don’t think I create conflicts on this site, I often try to mediate between them.
            I will also cheerfuly debate a topic if the poster can make some logical points and be as respectful to me as [I hope] I am to them. You, unfortunately have been neither logical or respectful of most people here.
            I would still ask you to show me any instances where I have been racist. Your silence in showing me these has been deafening.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Yeah, Jin, you’re being pathetically childish over it. If you can’t take people giving you shit (because of your ignorant comments and extremely sensitive ego) and feel that you need to stalk them around Chinasmack and make off-topic insults about them, then go find another forum to ooze into.

          • Jin

            mr. wiener i have no time to look for all your trolls and insults to Asians..you know what you have written.

            You mentioned your Australian are you from Ipswich qld by any chance?

          • mr. wiener

            Indeed I do know what I’ve written, and not written. I shall answer your question this time, the first time is a freebie, the next is quid pro quo.
            I’m from Melbourne, the town of Mornington to be exact. If you encountered racism in Ipswich you have my regrets, but character is shaped by adversity. The past cannot be helped, the future that is built on it is mainly of your own making.

          • Jin

            mr. wiener I see now it makes more sense your from Frankston would explain a lot.

          • mr. wiener

            No, Mornington .M.O.R.N…..you get the idea.Was born in Mornington, lived in Moorooduc.
            Frankston is a horrid shitehole full of bogans and welfare mums and Maltese. The olympic touch bearer got mugged there.[true] Anyway I try to judge someone more on their words and deeds than where they are from.
            Only 10% of the world are arseholes. Unfortunatelly you’re going to meet most of them before you die ;)

          • Jin

            That’s what all Frankston people say..”i am from Mornington.”

          • mr. wiener

            What do all Shanghainese say?

          • moop

            “What do all Shanghainese say?”

            they say “i wish i was from frankston

          • mr. wiener

            HAHAHA!! Now that is funny!

          • linette

            Jin(capital J), you are trying to hard to pretend you are Chinese. Most of us here already figured out you are not Chinese through your nonsense inflammatory comments for the sole purpose of giving Chinese men a bad rep. You may be Asian but definitely not Chinese. Probably an Asian guy who really hate Chinese people that is why you are attacking me.

            The Chinese guys surrounding me are more like Jeremy lin type.(Not as tall though….shorter more like around 5ft9 or 11 in good shape and well dressed) Most are from Taiwan with some China and HK. They are nothing like you nor behave like you. They are well educated. Most of them are professional with good jobs. They treat their girlfriends really well. They get snatched up really quick by asian or nonasian girls. They are very loving and generous showering their women with expensive gifts and will never talk down to women. My Chinese male friends and my brother are like that. You wish you can be a Chinese guy. In your dream.

            Piss off.

          • Ian G

            Ipswich is the retard cpital of Australia. People from Ipswich will not be aware (due to their gross level of retardation) of issues outside their city borders, therefore will not be found here.

    • Bo Xilai For Emperor

      i think chinese slores are number 1!!! poison milk powder and all

    • mimomimo

      No, it’s not. Look up an American athlete called Flo-jo. Doping allegations followed her to the grave, literally, even though she was clean. They even did an autopsy and it was still clean. Grow up ffs. If China didn’t do things like use underage gymnasts and fix badminton matches, people wouldn’t be so suspicious. Chinese coaches and the officials involved in previous transgressions are where you should be directing your anger, not at the ‘jealous west’.

      If you actually had better English, you would be able to read the western media’s reactions and see that the majority is supportive of Ye Shiwen.

      If Ye is a true athlete, we’ll see her at another 2-3 games yet and she’ll continue to dazzle and amaze. Plenty of white athletes have been taunted with doping allegations in their career, and as China enters the sporting arena, it will have to get used to having these suspicions directed at its athletes.

  • Ronan

    Why is this a national Issue?
    The Olympics are athletes competing against each other not countries competing against countries.
    Any one who gets upset over someone they don’t know being accused of cheating is an idiot.
    If she didn’t cheat, then well done to her.
    If she did cheat then she will be stripped of her medals, no big deal for anyone other than her.
    The internet is full of idiots regardless of what country you are in.

    • Zappa Frank

      well not at all, at olympics is exactly country against country…

      • Ronan

        Countries participate, athletes compete.
        Also there are several athletes competing with no country backing them financially.

        • Zappa Frank

          but the goal for coutries is to have more medals.. and in team sports are country vs country. It’s a competition among countries, this is the reason of olympic games. Else there would be no reason for have nationals flags and national teams.. Athtletes without any country are rare (i think where just 4 this time) and just because are tecnically stateless…from some not recognize country like sud sudan and so on..

  • terroir

    With the GDP component and requisite number of gold medals won at the Olympics qualifications out of the way as the very basic terms on what constitutes a superpower, it looks like the very last thing for China to do is stop acting like a victim and take the part of a strong, gracious winner.

    Unfortunately, China runs on “self-victimization” power; it’s a self-perpetuating machine.

    • Mao Ze Shenme Dong Dong

      China is going to get the gold for victimnastics. Imagine how upset they would be if they got bronze in that event.

    • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

      I love the comment saying that they almost cried with excitement when watching the swim race/match/whatever. I can’t remember the last time I was so insecure about my own nation that some 16 year old swimming back and forth in a pool faster than other girls made me almost cry.

      • simon

        or maybe it’s called being proud of the athlete’s of your country? obviously being a cat and all, your lack of empathy is not a surprise.

        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          Haha
          Well, that’s what I mean. Be it someone from my country or not, a 16 year old swimming back and forth in a swimming pool faster than some other girls doesn’t make fill me with tears over my own nationality. Especially since I come from a country with over what…300,000,000 people? That’s far less even than China.

      • jin

        cat you mean like this???

        • mr. wiener

          Well that is soccer, I mean football, after all so no surprises really.

        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          That’s soccer. It’s not a 16 year old in a swimming pool. A bit of difference as the entire world gives a shit about soccer. No one, except for the person in the pool cares about swimming, and that’s just for fear of drowning. But yes, crying over soccer is pretty gay (because it’s soccer) but a far cry from burning down a city over it. Also note that that fan in the video is not me. Wait until my university messes up it’s best year in three decades this coming football season if you want to see me crying over a sporting event.

          • Beijinger

            “Also note that the fan in the video is not me.”

            That’s awesome haha.

        • Zappa Frank

          for soccer in europe can happen anything, anything including killing people, riots, and so on.. i remember in Rome some angry fans assaulted even the police station.
          But even i china i read that some fans had a fight for a match in beijing, despite the teams (inter and milan) were italians.

      • Scytheria

        I agree with Whiskersthecat. It truly scares me how some people can become so emotionally stirred up watching their countries’ athletes competing in this sort of thing. Your country is nothing more than a red line drawn on a map, a flag, an anthem and a lot of silly politics that you probably don’t understand and have nothing to do with. Just celebrate the HUMAN achievements, not the national ones.

      • Chinese

        Some people are extremely insecure about themselves, that’s why they resort to patriotism.

    • Capt. WED

      terroir what would you do without this website to comment on internet comments? LOL. Haven’t seen you a whole lot on shanghaiist these days ;)

      Anyway, is Chinasmack going to translate the badminton case? Also are you guys going to be biased and only represent a single side and ignore the side (hell ignore a bunch sides) which says it seems like now olympic gold rush is something totally political for the government and not at all something for the people.

      Just throwing this out there: I think she’s had a sex change. Dunno why cos it won’t help maybe she/he did it for kicks?

      Fuck the Olympics. Sport is gay.

  • B

    When someone out of nowhere perform that well of course it raises suspicion . Many accusations has been aimed at various nations but only China whines over them being bullied, poor China buhu hu , western pigs bully us bu hu.
    I dont think shes been taking drugs, i think that she was genetically engineered and grown in a glas bottle combined with dolphine genes , i believe her asshole works like a gill, thats why she could stay under water for so long during the turn. And thats why its been undiscovered, nobody looked in the arse.

    • kw

      read something before you say it come out of nowhere..
      yah maybe she was genetically engineered.
      i just hope you could be genetically engineered to be less stupid..

      http://www.wdam.com/story/19152554/column-whats-up-with-chinas-swimming-success

      • wallimo

        Only one person suggested that she was doping, he is a US olympic coach and he is the head of the world swimming coaches association, The IOC and the US olympic committee have both distanced themselves from his comments. This is all a big storm in a teacup! Ian Thorpe and others have come out to defend Ye and Thorpe is a good example he also shaved 5 seconds off his time during his teen years.

        But lets face it the facts don’t matter to you, every article you put forward will support your argument. Could China create a new performance enhancing drug that is undetectable to current testing methods, YES. Would they? Well they’ve done it before so it wouldn’t surprise me if they did it again.

        I wonder what percentage of the Chinese population can actually swim?

        • kw

          of course.those are possibilities..
          so is it something normal to question someone success?
          doesn’t it sound bitter to you?
          and unfair?
          so now,why they don’t question Phelps?
          of course,he done his drug tests multiple time..
          but considering he come from USA and they have better history at creating undetected drug and longer history of using it?
          it’s all just speculation..

          so what shall we do?
          i will congratulate her for her wins..

          i don’t think that many that can swim..and i don’t think it affect the topic of ye

          • wallimo

            Phelps got in trouble for smoking marijuana,

            The point about the swimming is important, because Australia for example has many junior athletics programs that foster peoples talents in a natural way, generally great sporting achievement is associated with grass roots training programs, where as in china a teacher can spot you have big hands as in Ye’s case(I believe) and send you to be groomed as an Olympic athlete, Just think how great China would be at the Olympics if everyone got the opportunity to have a go and learn how to swim or join some sort of competitive sport.

            To me it seems very artificial I have many chinese friends and none of them can swim, mostly they just play basketball with friends in an impromptu way. I feel that this centralized way to ‘creating’ athletes is so phony. Surely Olympic prowess should reflect the nations interest in a sport and playing these sports, not just a small elite group of athletes that have been separated and turned into a athletic machines.

    • jin

      she didnt come out of nowhere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Shiwen she got a good records. and lol?
      i think you need to get your brains genetically engineered to be smarter.

  • Alain

    And so it arrives on Chinasmack.

    Cue endless discussions about evil british/opium wars/boxer rebellion/etc etc ad infinitum….Fauna must know where topics like this will lead, even though the site server is hosted in singapore?

    • mr. wiener

      G’day Alain , long time no see.

  • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

    That great mountain range between China and Europe is like a fence between a struggling continent to the West, and a reformed and progressing mega-republic (and neighbour nations) to the East. The Caucasians are STILL daring to ask how Asians can be SO good at the back of their mind, as their DNA still has this superiority complex written in like embedded computer code.

    • el negro pedro

      why do you have such low self esteem?

      • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

        Because I will not regard myself highly or favourably until I retire. Until then I will self-criticise to the point that at least I am not full of the opposite which is self-aggrandisement which leads to poor investments and a less competitive spirit – not good. However, I may just grab a beer after work tonight and set my esteem to “medium” for an hour or so as I boast of upcoming achievements to my GF. Ciao.

        • linette

          richardnorth,
          I agree with this one. This is my philosophy in life too. I believe in order for me to improve myself I must look for my flaws. Knowing that I am not perfect I know I have room to improve and better myself each day. Medium self esteem is a good thing.

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            I now feel suitably relaxed after a beer and a good verbal chit-chat, and am returning to my computer to say “cheers” to a whole range of nations such as the host country (GB) picking up quite a few Golds. May the Olympics result in more love and less war between nations great and small. This love will be truly worth it. Linette, thank-you for your kind comments.

          • moop

            richardnorth: worst new member to cS or worst new member to cS? discuss

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            Yoh dude… Moop… Come over here a second… (only joking dude)… Erm…membership… I just walked right into chinaSMACK… *It’s Olympic fortnight and I like doing things on my computer between the events…* PLUS A man or woman can flip nicks anytime they want. There is NIL membership… Plus there are loadsa other forums if you don’t like me (I’m on leave for a week so I’ll be here for a few days more…)

          • moop

            i’m just trying to figure out your purpose here. it seems like you are just saying a lot of stuff to indirectly promote your books? you remind me of robert black/jaime shorter

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            I have never needed to promote my books. As an antidote to Chinabounder who I believe did not represent all expats (Mr Wiener and myself are faithful to our lovers) I set about disseminating the truth, and a search of Amazon.com for “Asian Sex” is now a lot cleaner.

          • moop

            so you linking your amazon page to your cS name and making countless irrelevant and off-topic comments about sex and relationships, the female anatomy and doling out unsolicited relationship/sex advice has nothing to do with you promoting your books?

          • mr. wiener

            Yar, thanks for all the free advice on how to stop myself from shooting too early mate.Personally I prefer Whisker’s method though.
            Be nice to him moop , he’s from Disneyland with a death sentence la! See what living in Singapore can do to you? Brrrrr! scary…….one of us la!……. One of us la!

          • moop

            only because its you mr. weiner

          • mr. wiener

            Actually I think he’s doing a great lob of discouraging people from buying his book.
            And there is no bloody way in hell I’m refering to my wife as my “lover”. Fuck-a-duck, if I had a lover I wouldn’t refer to them as my “lover” either.

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            Hi Moop… I enjoy this forum – I only took a look on Monday – but writing books is a hobby for me – I rarely mention them even in social settings! Look…I’m a salesman… It’s stressful as I sell hotel products and I’m on leave for a well-earned break… I hate beaches! I have also been vaccinated against Hepatitis B and Trolls…*Popcorn* (Now go watch Olympics and stay on topic)

          • mr. wiener

            …kinda like pada, but upbeat polite and positive. Been creeping me out for a while now. I’m trying to get him ready as WMD to use on Jin [weapon of mastabatory discussion].

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            Mr W deserves the truth (and I’ll use more reassuring language) which is that her indoors (a typical SG bookworm) and me had a bet where she said no way in the world could I write a book and flog it (mainly because I’m buried in MS Excel and SAP all day). Fuck-a-duck I’ve then got even more PivotTables coming out of my arse as sales go through the roof. I truly can sell sand to the Arabs. NOW BACK TO THE OLYMPICS. THIS IS OFF-TOPIC.

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            Final note to Mr W because another Olympic day arrives… I’m back at work on Monday calling Aussie, Kiwi, SG and HK customers…most politely, and devoid of furtiveness. Plus we’ve got the track events…All the best and have a g’day…

    • Zappa Frank

      did you get that are americans that complained and not europeans??? did you get it?

      • Zappa Frank

        By the way why “caucasian” should ask themself anything like that? if we have such kind of complex we should long have suiced after the rising of black people in almost all sports (boxe, athletic, football, and so on..) . But seems to me we enjoy it…

  • http://www.bestvpninchina.com Rod

    Why oh why does it always have to be about China vs The West.

  • Nick in Beijing

    With all of the suspicions and accusations (some even confirmed) during the last Olympics I’m not surprised that they would question the performance of Chinese athletes.

    Admittedly I know nothing about this particular case, but if people are going to place themselves on center stage in a major global sporting event such as this then they should be prepared for criticism and scrutiny.

    China; Always playing the victim.

    • kw

      what happen in the last olympic?
      did anyone caught?
      you seems to know more..
      then conveniently throw china always playing the victim line.
      how about West,Always Ignorant?

      • Nick in Beijing

        Underage athletes?

        And yes, China always plays the victim. Any criticism or questioning of Chinese ANYTHING abroad is met with outrage. Childish garbage.

        Seems you are a little hurt over all this.

        • kw

          underage atheles?you mean the way they train child athletes?

          yah,you care so much about i am hurting about this..

          ok..that’s your opinion about china,acceptable,yet i think that’s what always happen everywhere.

          i am disgusted with lazy and bias news media that just try to spark controversy..taking bit of information to construct attack
          There are some other news that provide balance..looking at the stats that the British media and american coach try to make it sounds impossible..and also she did train under some Australian coaches too to improve technique.

          so what is the critism?
          she swam and win Olympic?
          she has been proven clean..you can say she take undetected drug.
          this is what always happen with USA,and they are the expert at this.
          well,just wait 8 years ..maybe it will be proven then..

          • Mengkong

            Haha, wow… A bit defensive, aren’t we, kw?

            Oh no, someone may have something slightly negative about kw! Or wait… maybe they were just talking about China?

            Doesn’t matter, kw and China are so intertwined, might as well be the same thing!

            Love how these conversations always devolve along the same lines…

        • david

          There is definitely some truth in your statements, however, I don’t think things are that absolute. As for the questions, do China and the Chinese usually take criticisms from abroad badly? Do they like to play the victims whenever they are criticized by foreigners? Generally speaking, the answers are probably yes to both questions. But I would still avoid saying China and the Chinese “always” play the victims whenever they are criticized by foreigners, or that they can’t take “any criticism or questioning on anything” from abroad , because one can never know for sure.

          Peace.

          • david

            Should be: “they can’t take ‘any criticism or questioning on anything’ at all from abroad”.

      • sonny

        yes, someone was caught. it was widely reported that ouyang kunpeng (欧阳鲲鹏) tested positive prior to the beijing games. it was also widely reported that ye’s teammate li zhesi (李哲思) tested positive and was banned prior to the current games.

        (sources: international swimming federation, xinhua
        http://www.fina.org/project/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1411&Itemid=126
        http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/10/c_131642593.htm)

        these, along with the scandals that took place during the 90′s plus the fact that her time was so amazing all was bound to fuel suspicion. this isn’t east vs west or usa vs china. the situation as a whole could give any average person pause for thought, regardless of nationality.

        • Chad

          Ye Shiwen’s name is not Li Zhesi. She was not on the swimming team in the 90s. She was a child. The year is 2012. We don’t bring up all the old farts who cheated in 1996 to demean current American medallists do we? NO. The suspicion here is fuelled by one thing: prejudice. Innocent till proven guilty. Otherwise it sounds like a bunch of morons that just can’t handle their country’s best being beaten.

          When Ben Johnson got caught, NO ONE even though of criticizing other future Canadian medallists. Nobody. Not a single article on it.

          Actually the other explanation is rampant paranoia.

          • sonny

            @chad relax, kw asked if anyone was caught, i was just answering his question.

            in response to your comment, i believe you’re mistaken about the aftermath of ben johnson — there was a full investigation into all canadian amateur athletes afterwards and it certainly cast doubt on future achievements (see dubin inquiry).

            similar suspicions often arise in boxing and many other sports. do a quick google on the last pacquiao fight and you’ll find no shortage of outrage and speculation at the result — all of which stems from the dubious history of the sport in general.

            unlikely, surprising, and unprecedented results in any sport with a dark past are always greeted with suspicion and accusations. this is really nothing new.

            if you’re looking specifically for examples of the american media questioning american athletes — alex rodriguez, barry bonds (again), jim thome, and david ortiz have all been accused of using steroids ad nauseam over the last few months. many have also been protesting suspected athletes who have never publicly tested positive over being considered for the baseball hall of fame — mike piazza, roger clemens, jeff bagwell, and others. there are too many examples to list, but this article form IBT should get you started: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/360396/20120706/reggie-jackson-hall-fame-steroids-alex-rodriguez.htm

          • Chad

            No one ever questioned a Canadian athlete about doping in 1996, 2000, 2004, or 2008 because Ben Johnson doped in 1988. No article ever wrote about it in those times and never tried to smear Canadian athletes who won medals. Obviously other athletes would be tested but there’s a huge difference between that and openly implying that they are automatically cheaters. That’s what I see in most American articles about the matter- a blurb about how the Chinese swim team was doping in the 90s as if that’s of any relevance to this girl in 2012. Honestly, the articles seem like propaganda sometimes.

            There’s also a difference between the dubious history of the SPORT and if they were instead saying that Pacquiao is probably doping because some filipino fighter in the 90s doped up.

            I’m not looking for examples of Americans being accused of doping. I’m pointing out that it’s absolutely idiotic to accuse this girl of doping because the swim team in the 90s was doping. She wasn’t even on the freaking team then so how is it relevant?

          • PeterScriabin

            Chad, it’s so sweet how butt-hurt you are on behalf of Ye ShiWen, and it’s a nice change from the usual angry yapping.

            You surely understand that the proven policies of previous Chinese Olympic coaching administrations are taken into consideration, when considering athletes trained under its auspices?

            It’s got little or nothing to do with the individual athlete, once they bring themselves to attention by world-beating performances.

            Why am I wasting time explaining all this to you? You’re known for many things here, but stupidity is not one of them.

          • Chad

            She was not trained by the previous Olympic coaching administrations as you put it. Maybe if you understood this basic fact, you wouldn’t be so confused about my argument.

          • PeterScriabin

            “Not trained by the previous…administrations”. I see. In that case there’s no hope.

            I guess it’s time to add to the things you’re known for here.

          • Chad

            Scriabin, no need to admit you made a slip up. ;)

          • PeterScriabin

            Oh, I admit it. I slipped up. But I learned my lesson. I think anyone else, who wasted their time reading the posts of a mental defective, did too.

  • Yo

    What really scares me on ChinaSmack are not really the topics, but the racism in the comments … every time.

    • Nick in Beijing

      Did it ever occur to you that it may in fact not be racism, but healthy skepticism voiced by people who currently live in, or have lived in China for a long time and are rightfully cynical after having a multitude of eye-opening personal experiences while in-country?

      I love how people pull out the racism card every time they have no legitimate beef with someone else’s disagreements where the involved parties are of different ethnic or cultural origins.

      Pussies who can’t handle criticism, and skepticism should try to find out the root causes of it, or examine themselves to find the causes of their own insecurities. Only reason I can think of why people would react negatively to scrutiny is because they aren’t confident that the results will be favorable.

      Wanna talk about racism? How about all those Chinese comments showing that the Chinese people regard the Olympics as a way to show how superior they are to foreigners, totally undermining the Olympics supposed function as a way to tear down walls and foster multi-cultural understanding.

      One of the many reasons I have no interest whatsoever in the Olympics.

      • kw

        i can see how that put you off..
        i think when you are on different places,different things will put you off..
        especially if you are from different culture.
        i also think that USA has the same problem with China..
        which is why this thing flare up..

        • Nick in Beijing

          I agree with you. I am from the U.S. but by no stretch of the imagination am I a fan of American sports.

          It seems that the people who get most offended at criticism are the ones who feel like they have something to prove. It turns something that is inherently supposed to be a fun activity promoting healthy competition, and turns it into a source (illegitimate) of national pride based on the performance of a few highly trained professionals.

          I can’t comprehend how this induces nationalism and rivalry? The performance of a fist-full of people who are highly trained with the best coaches and best equipment available within their nation, and sometimes other nations, reflects the average ability of the common people? It reflects the strength and prowess of their governing body? The strength of their economy? I don’t get it.

        • bomber

          Honestly, the USA doesn’t really care about China.

          I see in your comments a lot of angry projection. You seem to want Westerners to feel jealous, angry, shamed, etc. about the success of Chinese atheletes. The truth is, people don’t really give a shit. I understand your low-born desire to project all of your insecurities onto others and then mock them for it. It is the way of those who till the soil. However at the end of the day, nobody’s feelings are hurt. Nobody cares. Nobody is worried about Chinese athletes taking over the world. Perhaps you think that a bunch of shiny trinkets make your country respected and powerful. It is this need to be perceived as powerful and respected that belies the underlying weakness and cowardlyness of your nation and culture.

          • Cao Mao

            I would say this is pretty accurate. Truth is, I don’t really care much about who gets what place. To me the only thing that is interesting is the action. If the Chinese win great, if the Jamaican’s win that’s good too. If the American gets fourth, oh well.

            I am an asian boy with a mainland Chinese girlfriend and I see it all the time. The Chinese with “The world is racist against us” all the time. She says it all the time, her friends say it. What they perceive as racisim, is actually people responding to their attitudes and actions. Sometimes the way people treat you is because of the way you act, not your nationality.

      • Snarl

        “Only reason I can think of why people would react negatively to scrutiny is because they aren’t confident that the results will be favorable.”

        I can think of another reason. That is because the act of scrutinizing can be taken as a gesture of distrust. For example, the IRS will usually only audit a taxpayer when there is ample evidence of tax evasion. That was way off the topic of this thread, but just for the sake of knowledge.

        • Nick in Beijing

          If they have evidence then that suggests that the audit is warranted. Therefore the person being audited shouldn’t take offense.

          • Snarl

            In the crazy world of the IRS, outperforming yourself in any given quarter is enough evidence to justify an audit.

  • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

    Any massive improvement, record-breaking performance like that should be investigated, regardless of sex or nationality. It has nothing to do with her Chineseness.

    • Zappa Frank

      it has been investigate (like all gold medalist), and it’s negative.. no doping result..

      • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

        Oh I know, I wasn’t saying she’s guilty or anything. I was just saying that anyone should be investigated.

        • pada

          Oh, “anyone should be investigated”?
          Great! Seems you are not that petty. So let’s start to investigate Phelps whose doping seems to have much longer lasting effect till at least last nite.
          But I dont expect you will do the research, not because you are NOT a racist, but because you are busy practising Chinese National Anthem you newly learnt in last 5 days. I dont mean you learn new trick real quick, since even a retard would learn it after listening to it a dozen times.

          • Nick in Beijing

            You are operating under the assumption that anyone gives a shit what you think, Pada.

            …Also that anyone would be offended if Phelps were to be asked to submit to blood work.

            I wonder if in the future there will be monkey-based events in the Olympics. Then Pada would have some hope of people giving a damn about his existence. Might help cure his ED if he can get excited enough over the prospect of a future monkey-based Olympic event.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Yeah, the Chinese olympic teams doctor already accused Phelps of it. It was a pretty childish tit-for-tat move. But, notice how no one really gives a shit. http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-oly-notes-20120801,0,1372879.story
            No, seriously, read it. It’s hilariously pathetic.

            Yeah I haven’t quite got the Republic of China’s anthem down yet but I’m working on it.

          • sonny

            phelps was in fact accused and investigated the same as ye, if not more so. he was tested eight times in beijing. as his compatriot i wasn’t at all offended. it’s due process considering the nature of the sport these days.

            media from 2008:
            http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_i-m-clean-says-history-making-phelps_1183542
            http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/16/sports/olympics/16doping.html?_r=1

  • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

    Well, I mean, how many times have you asked a Chinese person if they can swim, and they say they can’t? The fact that she isn’t wearing any kind of flotation device is highly suspicious. An experimental PLA Aquatic Robot? Very likely.

    • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

      (This was supposed to be a response to B)

    • simon

      haha, this was pretty funny, but you’re a tool.

    • Nick in Beijing

      Incorrect kitty. You have confused them with the Japanese. They are the ones who have an aquatic robot under development.

      Maybe it will have deployable tentacles.

    • hess

      I’ve met a bunch of them who claims they can “but I cant keep my head above water”

  • Davoid

    wow!

  • Koreansentry

    This isn’t new from China, all ex-commie nations have systematic program to make their sporting heroes. We’ll never find out if she’s on hormone treatment to excel her swimming. This London olympic is already covered with so many controversies.

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      On a lighter note… Hormones can normally be a nightmare for a woman (of any race) as each egg does things in the uterus and all sorts of chemical signals fly around body and brain creating a little havoc… Finding sports-enhancing hormones amongst that lot will take some incredible science… Best of luck all the IOC bio-chemical chaps… Ciao

      • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

        You find a way to masturbate to any article, eh? She’s 16 and looks like a boy.

        • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

          My response was strictly scientific. But if you wish to transcend bio-chemistry and enter into the engineering and physics of a faithful and loving relationship down here in sunny Singapore…sad to say my GF and I are both over 40 years old (but I weigh twice as much as she does). :-) I could go on but I won’t…

          • Mao Ze Shenme Dong Dong

            Bwahahahahaha… You pompous turd.

            I am picturing Roseanne and Dan Arnold with a bag of flour.

    • Zappa Frank

      koreans on the other side tend to have a lot of mistakes on their favor when organize football world cup.
      We can say that if she was good for doping she’ll disappear as quick as the korean football team did after they got the 4th place in 2002 world cup playing at home and later compleatly disappeared..

    • Alain

      I would agree there is something very ex-ussr/ex-DDR and current day N korea about the training of athletes in China, and the pressure on them to win as many gold medals as possible.

      Almost reminiscent of Rocky 4, only difference is this is 2012, not the 80s and the heights of the cold war.

      Cheers and beers

    • Chunghwa

      >Koreansentry

      So I’ve heard you’ve stopped shitposting on Wikipedia, and are now shitposting on 4chan’s /int/. Haven’t seen you in a while.

  • 黄河晴天

    First and foremost, both Ye Shiwen’s swims were world-class! Many congratulations to the youngster! It is a shame such amazing performances are often looked at with suspicion, but as we all know, that is the nature of sport today. There will always be accusations of cheating, and the spotlight will always be on the more successful athletes and nations. Quite frankly though, many of the ‘whole-world-is-against-China’ comments on this article are utterly ridiculous, narrow-minded and hypocritical. There are plenty of people from ‘The Bad, Bad West’ who were delighted for Ye when she won. Seems like little children need to grow up!

    首先,叶诗文的两个游泳比赛是世界一流的!许多祝贺这个姑娘!是一个耻辱如此惊人的表演往往是用怀疑眼光看着。众所周知,这是今天的运动情况。总是会有作弊的指控,另外,焦点将始终是更成功的运动员和国家。不过,很坦率地说,不少对这篇文章 “整个世界是反对中国” 的意见是完全荒谬,狭隘和虚伪的。她赢时,有很多从“坏坏西方”的人为她特别开心。好像小孩子得长大!

  • B

    Kw stop crying –> (T_T) “buhu Western pigs are bullying are supreme race “

    • jin

      go learn some english first.

      • Jin

        Why should he learn English? so he can be a imperialist ass rimmer like you?

        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          Is that why you learned English, Jin #2? Because you’re an imperialist ass rimmer? You gave your secret away.

          • Jin

            whiskersthecat There’s nothing wrong with English but unlike jin i would never force it on anyone because he thinks its a superior language.

          • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

            CN / VN / TH / JP citizens (65% females, 35% males typically) are learning English in order to work in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Europe or America (in no particular order). I for one encourage them and really do not mind broken English. Only Smickno minded broken English.

          • jin

            wait! When did I say that English is a superior language? I’m just telling this dumbass to learn some English before he try to insult someone in English with his fail English, cause clearly he can’t speak English.

  • kodi

    I am also outraged that our CNN correspondent would assume so quickly that this young girl “Li Shiwen” is on drugs rather than simply stating what an amazing feat she has achieved. That girl has stunned the world and has been tested hundreds of times throughout the process. Saying that she is cheating is sort of shameless and it takes away that poor girls glory. Why rain on her parade? Congratulate her and apologize immediately.

    During the teen years young people’s bodies go through huge changes that can result in huge gains in strength and growth spurts, which is probably the case. This may be why she seems to have come out of nowhere. Perhaps its not that she is swimming so fast, its just that everyone else is swimming so damn slow and do not belong in the same pool with little Li!

  • Ma Shanmu

    I find it funny that so much vitriol from the Chinese has been directed toward Americans ~ yet it was the BBC and a British commentator who began this suspicion. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I have not heard a single U.S. official question the merit of Ye Shiwen’s accomplishment.

  • xiaohouzi

    Personally, i find the Olympics so overrated when people get so bitter and angry about some games. It really takes all the fun out of it. I really hope she didn’t dope because she seems like a really nice girl even if she never learned how to swim.

  • Johnny Basic

    You’ve got to laugh at China’s national inferiority complex. Perhaps Ye really wasn’t doped up — I mean, China, *cheating at something*! Which uncharitable soul would even dream of such a libelous calumny!– and being forced by the government to train for 25 hours a day 8 days a week after it was spotted that she had big shoulders for a toddler. Who fucking cares, it’s only swimming for fuck’s sake.

    But just hark at what an puerile, impotent rage the Chinamen are flying into over the doping accusations. From the ludicrous generalizations — “The western media has always been arrogant, and suspicious of Chinese people.”– to the preschool whining about stinky western butts and farts and frenzied demands for an apology (presumably from ‘the west’), what you are seeing are the embittered, needy temper tantrums of a infantilized and self-entitled people *just desperate* for foreigners to give them recognition, and nothing more.

    Chinamen can crow about winning all the medals in the sports nobody watches, and jerk themselves off to the idea of prowess at ping pong equates to becoming a strong military power, but they know the *entire reason* they want to win so much is just to get a condescending, self-affirming pat on the head from the western world, to assuage their paper-thin egos. Risible.

    • Anon

      I never like your use of “Chinaman” but you always say what needs to be said Johnny. I would love for more Chinese to be mentally healthy and able to get along with the rest of the world in a normal manner (hint: “so and so is kind of a dick to make accusations like that without any proof” is a normal opinion. “THE WEST CAN’T STAND THAT WE AREN’T THE SICK MEN OF ASIA ANYMORE AND WILL TRY ANYTHING IT CAN TO SLANDER AND DEFAME CHINESE ATHLETES,” on the other hand, is unhinged.) but since they aren’t yet all we can do is be amused by their tantrums.

      • Nick in Beijing

        Well said Anon! I normally don’t agree with you, but this is one of the more reasonable comments I’ve seen from you.

        To further it I will say that I think people should criticize individuals, not generalize (although we all generalize sometimes, we should strive for less of it in most cases).

    • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

      Five stars, would lol again.

    • Nilerafter24

      ^This
      Hahaha. Nice.
      I wish more comments were written with the same level of articulacy and humor as yours.

    • linette

      Johnny Basic
      You’ve got to laugh at America’s national inferiority complex. Perhaps Michael phelp really wasn’t doped up — I mean, American, *cheating at something*! Which uncharitable soul would even dream of such a libelous calumny! I mean michael was forced by his parents and trainer to be trained days and nights after he was spotted that he may be a talented swimmer. Who fucking cares, it’s only swimming for fuck’s sake.

      The hillbilly American athletes had records of doping in Olympic competitions. And you look at hillbilly phelps winning competition after competition in 2008 olympic……It must be doping without any a doubt or evidence required.

      The American hillbilly watches, and jerk themselves off to the idea of prowess at swimming equates to becoming a strong military power, but they know the *entire reason* they want to win so much is just to get a condescending, self-affirming pat on the head from China, to assuage their paper-thin egos. Risible.

  • jeffli

    Good luck to this Athlete.
    Shes clean of drugs and she won fare and square.

    BUT…………… I’m prepared to come back to this site and flame you all if after 10-20 years later she publishes her memoirs and admits to cheating in some way!!
    :-)
    Blind Nationalists!!!

  • kodi

    There is no need to fret about whether or not any olympians are on drugs initially because the samples and results will stay at the lab for 10 years and be tested again at later dates when technology is updated, so as we have learned time and time again cheaters never win and winners never cheat.

  • nereis

    Here are the following premises:

    1. Her prior 3 legs were ordinary and showed no improvement from her performance a year ago.
    2. In the last 50 meters she clocked a faster freestyle time than the fastest man in the world for that event.
    3. Late stage bursts of speed in swimming are related to levels of oxygenated blood.
    4. Hence, her gain in speed is not consistent across all strokes and across the years which could be consistent with normal gains by a teenager as per Michael Phelps.
    5. The Chinese swimming team has been shown to be doping for over 30 years.
    6. To accept this result as possible without doping would be accepting that a 16 year old girl can outburst the fastest man in the world at that event.
    7. All evidence thus far shows that women do not outcompete men at non-hyperendurance events.

    Therefore

    It is probable that she has been doping.

    Notice that the fact that she is Chinese does not come into play here besides their bad track record at policing doping.

    • Zappa Frank

      i suggest to look at chao post in the begining. there’s at least other 2 example of a woman and a man that did better than the world champion in the last 50m.
      moreover she didn’t compete on anything, she’s something like 25″ slower than Phelps… she may simply have saved energy for last sprint.
      like it was said if chinese swimming team has a story of doping what can we say about usa team.. as jin said doping cases are 11 to 75 for americans..

      • nereis

        It is the combination of not posting up the same sort of numbers across all her splits that is inconsistent with gains in speed during adolescence as per Michael Phelps.

        That, combined with a final split from a 16 year old girl to beat the reigning men’s world champion in that event does not make for a compelling case for the contrafactual.

    • jin
      • Jen in NY

        Everyone, please stop using Wikipedia as a legit source of info–it’s not.

        You might as well write your opinion on a paper napkin, take a picture of the napkin, post the picture on your Facebook page, and cite that picture as your “source.”

        #1 rule of credible research: Don’t cite Wikis if you want to be taken seriously.

        • jin

          fine…. here. play a game.
          http://www.sporcle.com/games/jonesjeffum/doping_countries
          or here
          http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/friv/lists.cgi?id=75

          and these days, technology has advanced soo much that doping will be detected easily, unless its a complete new something (which they will detected later anyway) http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/07/olympic-anti-doping-campaign/

        • Chad

          Wiki is plenty credible if it’s sourced and that page is. If you disagree, come up with a counter argument instead of attacking a source when you have none yourself.

        • hess

          How about you take a look at the sources at the end of a page?

        • elizabeth

          Obviously you don’t do much when you research. Many Wiki pages are referenced.

        • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

          Jen, there are some of us old boys who never wasted time on a bachelor’s degree, never mind Harvard referencing, despite having the honorary stuff to get a job selling and marketing stuff. Please. Please. Please. #1 rule of any targets – get started and do not overly research anything, never mind be too serious. Over-planning and over-research will get you marked for disposal in Asia…

        • simon

          Maybe if this was a debate in a scholarly setting would there be any need to take the ‘research’ beyond wiki.

          That or you are in the wrong forum Jen.

        • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

          Some of the tabular data in Wiki is now in pivottable form, and entries are becoming more and more professional – especially this year it seems. I really would say get MORE stuck into Wikipedia than LESS. It’s free, it’s not evil, it’s quick…

      • nereis

        The IOC only has jurisdiction to test athletes during the period in which they enter the Olympic Village.

        Before that, all testing is conducted by each athlete’s corresponding national body. i.e. the Chinese Olympic Committee.

        Hence, all doping if conducted would have been done prior to the games.

        I would like to add that the track record of the Chinese Olympic Committee and their swimming federation has not lent itself to credibility.

        Please address as to which premises in the above you specifically think to be contentious and why.

        Please do not link to a wikipedia page that weakens your own argument for why doping is always caught, or why Chinese testing is in line with international standards.

        =>

        Out of the 4,500 samples that were collected from participating athletes at the games, six athletes with positive specimens were ousted from the competition. It is possible that further positive tests may still be found as samples are sealed and frozen for eight years. It is unclear who remains in charge of these samples, the host or the IOC. The quality of testing was questioned when the BBC reported that samples positive for EPO were labeled as negative by Chinese laboratories in July.[22] The rate of positive findings is lower than at Athens four years ago, but it cannot be deduced that the prevalence of doping has decreased; possibly, doping technology has become more sophisticated and a number of drugs cannot be detected.[21][22][23]

  • FYIADragoon

    I doubt she used any. But the Chinese have always actively tried to cheat when the option is available, regardless of innate talent. There is logic for questioning the Chinese. There is not for a country where forging a birth certificate would be near impossible.

    • linette

      But the Chinese have always actively tried to cheat when the option is available,…..???

      Tried to cheat when the option is available…..sounds like Human to me.

      trolling failed……..

      • Jin

        linette do you work in a “massage” palour in Hong Kong by any chance/ i think i have read comments you made about how you want group orgies with the old white guys on here and then also comment about how you want to make a porn video for them.

        • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

          Old? I’m actually kind of young. I’m in my late 20s.
          Besides, who are you to talk trash about someone’s sexual interests when you admitted to being an ass rimmer just 30 minutes ago?

        • mr. wiener

          Off topic, childish and uncalled for.

          • Jin

            Not really in most comments she posted its always about wanting sex with the laowai’s on here or her tits size or how she wants to do a porn video for them etc.

            I even seen a post she had up asking one old laowai if he would do scat on her..so just curious if she does it for a living or just a hobby.

          • tai wai

            Not really in most comments she posted its always about wanting sex with the laowai’s on here or her tits size or how she wants to do a porn video for them etc.

            Jealous?

            You’re jealous.

          • linette

            be quiet Jin. I doubt that you are Chinese. You maybe Asian but probably not Chinese. Put your photo on gravatar. Why hiding behind a computer. 你不是中國人。

          • Jin

            linette it was just a question..why so worked up by it? if you do “massage” work so what its none of my business and not here to judge you or your loose morals

          • linette

            Jin..what loose moral? What moral do you have? People come to discussion forum to read news and enter into discussions. We come here to vent our anger or just simply joke around for laughs.
            Who are you to talk down to me? Is your business what I do between my legs…you are retarded. Go piss off. Call girl? hahahaa…I am on call. I just got paged. see ya loser….

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Jin is probably the skinny kind of Asian with “The Rachael” haircut and a questionable sexuality you see all the time around Chinese hair salons. He’s not Chinese, for sure, even though he desperately wants to be accepted as a real-life Asian. But no, he was born in some other country, grew up in a half-assed Chinatown and had to go to a high school full of white guys dating his only Asian female classmates. Now he’s upset and moving to China to finally try and be where there’s enough girls so that he might even get one. But, alas, all the white devils are snatching them up there, too. Is there nowhere he can go? (Protip for Jin: check the most recent article about the whorehouse for tips and hints on how you can finally get laid)

          • Jin

            whiskersthecat – yes we heard all this fantasy before so no need to repeat it over and over.

            Unlike you who come here for cheap sex with Asian woman i do not live my life like you. why else would all your comments about me about my sex life or your fantasy of what my sex life would be like?

            I am not Chinese..how do you know what i am and not?

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Well, yeah, cheap sex. Super cheap. The free kind of cheap. Why would I pay for it when I can get it for free? We’re not all suffering the same inferiority complex you’re suffering that keeps us from being able to talk to a girl without getting frustrated and running home to cry in our pillow, punching a mattress and bawling long into the night about how it’s not fair, staring at ourselves in the mirror and slapping our own faces out of self hatred, crushed ego, and just an overall, absolute lack of confidence. As for how I know this, and my previous description of you to be true (you never denied it), well, it was just an educated guess, but an excellent guess by the looks of it.

            Seriously, look up that bathhouse, go spend 198rmb to finally lose your virginity, and try…give an honest to goodness all-out effort to try and not fall in love with the hooker. She’s only doing you for the 198rmb.

          • Jin

            whiskersthecat denial or confirmation on the internet behind a monitor is really meaningless.

            But I will give you this, my family is from Shanghai but i was raised overseas. Before moving back to Shanghai i was studying at Central Saint Martins in London for 3 years. I do not “chase” any local girls and my current gf is also shanghai background but raised overseas. I do not have friends or mingle with any people outside my social class so I seriously doubt you know me or what my life style is like.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Haha sure, Jin. Sure. I see you felt a real need to try and explain yourself. I hope you weren’t getting upset. I bet we wouldn’t like you when you’re angry.

            But, in any case, congratulations on your successful move back to Shanghai. It has a lot of cool stuff for foreigners from the West like you and I. I can give you pointers. You know, from one foreign Westerner to the next.

          • mr. wiener

            What’s the latest euphemism? FISHTAIL. Failed In Shang Hai Try Again In London. Even funnier than FILTH.

          • Jin

            Just felt sorry for you..always asking about my life story so i gave you some info.. personally do not care what you think my background would be.

            I really don’t think we like the same places in Shanghai so its OK i do not need your “pointers”.

            And how may i ask you come to the conclusion i am western?

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Haha ok, Jin. Believe what you want. There’s a good boy : )

            I came to the conclusion that you’re a Westerner because you’re from a “Western” country. I’m going to assume it’s Australia, due to your butthurt chat with wiener about getting your feelings hurt there. Although not in the Western hemisphere, is still commonly referred to as a western nation (at least from what I hear all the time).

          • Jin

            whiskersthecat wrong again..i told you before i was born in Shanghai raised overseas so how does that make me “western”.

            Yes i lived in Australia for a few years but why are you so interested in me and my life? are you gay? its cool if you are but i do not swing that way sorry.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            What’s your passport say, Jin? If it’s Chinese, then ok. I doubt it is, though. And no, sorry, I’m not gay. You’ll have to look elsewhere. Looks like the “questionable sexuality” assumption I made earlier was correct. Anyway I hope you get the right to marriage equality, soon.

          • Jin

            whiskersthecat doesn’t matter what passport i have or the nationality.

            All your comments have all been sexual in one form or another and your approval of a 13y kid being abused and raped is the most alarming thing.

            Why are you really in China is it because the lure of underage kids for sex?

          • mr. wiener

            Interesting way to twist it. A 13year old boy gets serviced by a working girl, and on his own admission he did’nt put up too much of a fight. Not saying it’s right, I think there is something wrong with that. But the most you could make out of it would be statutory rape or providing improper services to a minor.

            Your twisting and turning evasion of the passport question would leave me to suspect you indeed possess dual citizenship, and why not? A very smart move by your parents, I hope you are not ashamed of it. China 30 years ago was not a great place to raise kids or get ahead in life. It does detract a bit from your uber nationalism, but that is an issue for you to deal with, a luxury compared to the many Chinese who wanted out back then but couldn’t do so.
            I’m not asking for any gratitude for the west, but i think you owe your parents for the fortunate lifestyle you now enjoy.

          • http://500px.com/whiskersthecat whiskersthecat

            Oh, Jin, I already did my three and a half year tour there. I’m on the glorious island nation of Taiwan right now. Anyway, I went to China because I wanted to. There was no real reason other than that, really. I just hadn’t been there yet.

            But hey, you’re still dodging the passport question. Looks like someone has a US, Canadian, or British passport on their hands. Looks like someone isn’t really Chinese, but a member of those nations he hates so much. That would explain the childish anger ; )

        • Zappa Frank

          Jin i think you’re not even chinese..

          • Nick in Beijing

            Jin and Pada come from the same subspecies of human-esque creatures. Their nationalities are just part of their cover to ensure they aren’t discovered by the human world.

          • Jin

            You are right I am not really Chinese my parents are from Shanghai so we are different to other Chinese.

          • mr. wiener

            Yes and as we recently established you’ve spent all of 2 years in China.
            All those years spent not fitting in in the west, finally your time has come , from the ashes of your unwanted Western name [Franklin, Quentin, Edison or whatever] Jin is re-born as Han the Solo Chinese Guy, daring defier of Western Jabba the Hutts , always stroking his own wookie.
            [Sorry small case jin, you title has been given to one more deserving]

      • El pedro negro

        Interesting. I’m not taking sides here but Linette can be somewhat obtuse and narrow minded. Why y’all defending her so passionately?

        IMAO maybe she’s not a dumb cunt, but she sure says things a dumb cunt would say from time to time.

        Here is a quote:

        “Tried to cheat when the option is available…..sounds like Human to me.”

        Doesn’t sound “human” to me. But then again, I’m not from China.

        • El pedro negro

          I mean by this logic, that all people should cheat when the option is available, what kind of planet would we live in?

          There was a recent bust of 2000 people who were counterfeiting drugs that included ones for heart disease and diabetes. It’s this kind of logic that allows people to profit off the suffering of others.

          Why bother to go to school to get degree? Why not buy a diploma. Why use cooking oil when you can CHEAT and use gutter oil? Why make regular baby powder when you can CHEAT and poison babies to make MORE MONEY.

          You are brilliant Linette. You are the pride of your Nation!

  • diverdude1

    I had a ‘growth spurt’ once,,, soiled my trousers..

    I dunno if she used drugs or not,, but I bet one thing is for sure,, if she did use drugs, she was forced to.
    I also think anybody should be able to use drugs if they want to… wtf is up with all this anti-doping mentality? let people use them if they choose to. I hope coaches would not pressure young kids into using them though.

    Congratulations from a Proud American little Ye ! :-)

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      Last year I had a former weightlifter the other side of the office who was addicted to testosterone. Another in another workplace was too. They were either addicted to masturbation or regularly heading to Indonesia to measure the depth of various prostitutes, escorts and masseurs. Hormones should have been set at the correct level at birth in a guy. As you say some pubescent soiling should show the peak of the natural chemical circulation. No need for “top-up”. Same usually applies to women.

      • Zappa Frank

        it’s strange because usaully the use of testosterone lead to a reduce of libido and impotence after you stop.it maybe that despite beeing former weightlifters they were still using it?

  • wafflestomp

    Over the course of the 1990s [China] had 40 swimmers banned after positive doping tests. The sceptics – or perhaps cynics – would say that the doubts about Ye, [bronze-medalist] Li [Xuanxu] and [gold-medalist] Sun [Yang] are the inevitable consequence of that history

    - John Leonard, executive director of the World Swimming Coaches Association

    We all know what it takes to succeed in China, whether it be business or sports. Cheat! Bribe! Just don’t get caught. I love seeing all this Chinese butthurt going around

    • wafflestomp

      The rest of the world watches in envy as China heads for a record haul of medals… and wonders. And the question many are asking is: How can they be that good?

      The answer may well lie in the brutal training regimes youngsters are forced into following back home. The truly astonishing teenager Ye Shiwen, whose truly unbelievable ­performance sent the word “doping” echoing around the Aquatics Centre before she had even taken off her goggles at the end of the race, is certainly NOT a natural-born winner.

      The disturbing truth is that, while her performance may not be drug-enhanced, Ye Shiwen and her Chinese teammates have been manufactured like ­automatons on a cynical human production line, forged by training techniques many say border on torture.

      Swimmers, gymnasts, boxers and athletes are all products of the £500million Mandarin Machine – the government programme designed to spew out Olympic gold medallists and ensure China’s world domination of sport.

      For the past four decades children as young as six have been tested for size, fitness and skill as part of a national “talent identification strategy”.

      With a population of 1.3 billion to choose from, more than 400,000 are selected and sent to 3,000 sports schools – or boot camps.

      -An expat website

      • wafflestomp

        Stories of abuse are commonplace.

        Diver Chen Ruolin competed in Beijing when she was 15 years old and just 4st 10lbs – the weight of an average nine-year-old.

        Her coach had ordered her to skip dinner for a year before the Games to stay thin and make a smaller splash hitting the water.

        And gold medal-winning weightlifter Cao Lei was so cut off from the outside world that no one told her that her mother was dying.

        She only found out two months after the funeral, and never had a chance to say goodbye.

        In 2007 marathon runner Ai Dongmei and two of her team-mates won damages from their former coach who had regularly beaten them and kept all their earnings.

        And in another horrendous case two years ago a football player was kicked in the chest for daring to ask his coach what time he had to start training next day.

        He fell, hit his head and died.

        The coach got three years in jail for manslaughter and embarrassed officials insisted the use of violence was not condoned.

        It was in the 1980s, after decades of humiliating deafeat by the Americans, that China adopted the controversial Cold War training regimes used by the Soviet Union and Eastern bloc states.

        Inevitably they were soon dogged by the doping rows with scandals throughout the 1990s and 2000s including the discovery in 1998 of 13 vials of a human growth hormone – enough to supply the entire team – in the kitbag of a female swimmer who was searched at Sydney airport.

        In 2006 the Liaoning Anshan Athletics School was found to be doping unsuspecting pupils as young as 15 with testosterone.

        • Scytheria

          And don’t forget the Chinese athletes who managed to take part in the 2008 Olympics and then mysteriously change their names, lose a limb, and then take part in the same year’s Paralympics :-O

    • jin
      • wafflestomp

        It’s a quote you tard. Why don’t you ask the guy who said it.

  • Josh

    I like how everyone is saying “THOSE DAMN FOREIGN DOGS HOW DARE THEY” when it was actually just John Leonard and the US Olympic Committee has already pretty much said, “Yeah, fuck that guy.”

  • wafflestomp

    Didn’t a Chinese badminton team just get tossed for throwing a match?

    STOP GETTING CAUGHT CHINA, FUCK.

    • Zappa Frank

      chinese, korean and malaysian (i’m not sure about that one)..

    • jeffli

      I know they got “tossed off” at the barber shop! ;-)

  • Getrealson

    “Ye Shiwen, well done! Truly giving face [a credit to] Chinese people, embarrassing foreigners. China will not only be a powerful nation in sports, it will also be a powerful military and economic nation that sooner or later bring those discontented countries to their knees.”
    I’m not embarrassed! not one bit. Is anyone else? Will being all those things give the average netizen any real improvment in lifestyle? will it clean your streets of saliva, piss, shit or stray dogs? will corruption stop? will the poor be given welfare? Fool! I would not wish any nation on its knees because it is the average joe that suffers not some smart arse journilist!

    “This is what power is, it can’t be helped, foreigners are envious and jealous, we should be magnanimous. Chinese people too can have the extraordinary”
    I’m a foreigner and I can honestly say that I don’t envy any chinese person and I am definately not jealous of anyone regardless of what they have. This sounds like the delusion and self deciet that is often accomanied by an inferiority complex. Agree with the last sentence.

    “Are our athletes not given basic English trained when they go abroad? For example: fuck you, sob”
    well said!
    “I really want to slap those two foreign journalists, the tone of their questioning and suspicions are filled with arrogance and prejudice. Little Ye is too young and honest. If it were someone with a more volatile personality who was responding, they’d choke those two stupid idiots until they wouldn’t dare show their face”
    Isn’t this exactly what the CCP do to squash free press and avoid scrutiny of corruption and incompetence.

    “Europeans have never been able to get away from racism”
    Does anyone else see the hypocracy in this statement?

    First off, congratulations to her! awsome win and should be proud. Don’t let that episode bring you down. I hate the Olympics personally because it has turned into a commercially exploited circus. Athletes were once honoured for their achievments and celebrated, as was the event itself. now there is just as much negative news and whinging as there is positive.

    I am amazed how a couple of journos questions turns into anti foreign sentiment. The chinese commentors need to understand the intracacies of world media. While these questions would make anyone peeved, there is one practicle purpose to asking such a question and it’s the same one that’s served with our ability to question government officials and business leaders. It lets the person who will ultimately be responsable should anything negative come to light, Go on public record to give thier response. If there was speculation or reason to suspect she may have taken PED, then the public would like her to squash it, NOT a PR or management team that can later be blamed by the person in question for not answering honestly. The Chinese netizens make some good points but lose all credibility with thier racist nationalistic rants.

    Nationalism & patriotism in the modern world is a sickness and pre-curser to racism. another reason I dislike the olympics.

    • mr. wiener

      What you said +1

    • kw

      +1
      Well said

    • diverdude1

      Excellent assessment.

    • Beijinger

      +1 Agreed!

    • Nick in Beijing

      Good post GRS.

    • Cao Mao

      Sounds about right to me

  • mr. wiener

    Well, good luck to all the athletes who participate in these games. You can’t all win ,but I hope you find it a memorable and life changing experience. And you are able to lead happy and fulfilled lives afterwards.
    To all you folks watching I hope you enjoy it too. I hope you can vicariously taste the fruits of victory rather than the sour grapes of envy , malice and unfulfilled expectations.
    I’m starting to see why they only stage it every 4 years. Some of you twits are starting to give me the pip. Remember please these are sports, maybe you could try doing some your selves? Instead of too vigorously attacking or defending others.
    Cheers.

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      Like it. From the start of one games to the start of another, 365 + 365 + 365 + 366 = ALMOST 1500 DAYS! Thank heavens for the one successful Greek invention (in addition to olive oil) designed well, which keeps top-quality civil engineers busy, and gives host nations and athletes pride. Every 1461 days since 776BC. A very long-running multi-faceted sports gig indeed.

  • Chom

    “Ye Shiwen, well done! Truly giving face [a credit to] Chinese people, embarrassing foreigners.”

    I want to hit my head off a wall. It seems this story has attracting many CCTV 7 types. Presuming she is clean, how the hell does it embarrass “foreigners”? So stupid. They need to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around China…

    • mr. wiener

      “middle kingdom” mentality.
      Mind you it’s the same any where. I don’t miss having to listen to boofheaded sports commentators only focusing on the events Aussies are in and raving:”AUSTRALIA! GO AUSTRALIA! YOU BLOODY LITTLE BEAUTY!!!!”
      Enough to make you want to drive the porcelain bus.

      • Getrealson

        I thought you were Aussie but using “Boofhead” confirms it!

        • mr. wiener

          Guilty as charged.

          • jeffli

            HG and Roy?

      • kw

        i thought it should be OZ! OZ! ?
        well commented..it happens anywhere..

        • mr. wiener

          It gets shortened to: “Stralya! Stralya! Go Stralya!!!!”

          • jeffli

            thats a TISM song!

          • mr. wiener

            Heh ,TISM. I love that band. “Greg, the stop sign!”

    • Chad

      Because it’s highlighting all the sour grapes outside of China.

  • XiaoHei

    Jealous, these guys are jealous.

    If it was a black or a gay person, they would all scream ‘Prejudice!’ for the clearly biased reporting from the western media. How can they accuse someone without proof?

    Well done. Jia you ye shiwen.

    • mr. wiener

      Jealous?…Nah, just stupidity with a touch of prejudice.
      Hope all the tests come back clear.

      • Chad

        They already came back clear. The media doesn’t tend to pick up that part of the story though. Gold medalists are tested many times. To the Americans, she’s must be a cheat because 20 years ago, the Chinese cheated, and plus she’s damn fast. Damning evidence if I say so myself.

  • Sean

    “So many athletes from other countries have won the gold medal before without ever being suspected, why do I have to be questioned like this when I get one?” Sun Yang also strongly supported his fellow athlete, “The American team can win so many gold medals, why can’t China? If we were to go question the United States, how would they feel?”

    This one’s easy:
    1. Chinese cheat anytime they think they can get away with it.
    2. You didn’t just win a gold medal, you beat a seasoned male veteran’s time in the toughest part of the race.
    3. The U.S. doesn’t give a damn when we are questioned because we don’t have the childish habit of responding to judgements made by outside parties with nationalistic indignity.
    4. A greater number of U.S. athletes have been caught doping probably because they have greater access to drugs, they have participated in a greater number of Olympics, and send a greater number of athletes to them.

    • Zappa Frank

      please before posting read the previous topic, this metter has been already discussed in the very begining.
      On 3rd point, when was the last time us have been accused (without any proof) of doping use? Come on, you know already. Nobody dare to accuse USA.. because the difference in power is always huge.. so don’t play dumb as every country has the same chance and the same power. This kind of difference is always reflected also in the olympic games.. or you think that the american federation and the (a small country as you prefer) have the same power?

  • linette

    A reporter asked Ye Shiwen if she was using banned drug after she won gold? Which reporter? From which country? How embarrassing. That reporter just embarrassed her own nation. I hope not American. Now people will talk about all over the internet American are sour grapes and jealous of China’s winning. That reporter needs to come out and apologize explaining it was her own action and doesn’t represent the people of her country.

    • linette

      If they suspect athletes using drugs, go do test on all of competitors before competition. Why complain and cry after they win gold?

      • wafflestomp

        Because of her past swim times and the general nature of progression in swimming.

        Is it more likely she cheated (she is from a country with a history of cheating and going anything to win)

        Is it more likely we’re witnessing a phenom who will demolish all female records in the coming years?

        • Chad

          It’s more likely she’s a phenom. Generally, people don’t look at what happened decades ago to decide whether a person is cheating in the present, especially if said person was a mere child during the history of cheating.

        • Tony

          Her 100 Meter time from 2 years ago when she was 14 would have taken 6th place in the Women’s 100m Olympic finals yesterday. So,I’m not sure what you mean by past swimming times. She’s been a world class swimmer for 2 years. It’s also not surprising that she would improve a lot from age 15 to 16. Just about every athlete does.

    • Beijinger

      I believe it was a British reporter, but it doesn’t matter. I am sure the question has been asked many times before to people of many different nationalities. Coming out and apologizing is ridiculous because it was a legitimate question and it is a free press so of course it doesn’t represent her country.

    • Young Man

      That’s a real Chinese mentality- one person can represent a whole country. One reporter askes a question and therefore the whole nation asks that question.

      The view from the ant-hill I guess.

    • Tony

      Let people talk. The American swim team is doing just fine. The American team has 23 total medals in swimming to China’s 9 medals. This discussion about Ye’s performance certainly isn’t because America is losing swimming dominance. Maybe in 4 or 8 years we’ll be grumbling about it but not at this Olympics.

      Note – I think Ye’ is for real. I do question why the Chinese women’s 4×200 relay collectively stunk.

  • B

    Well since her teammate was caught earlier this year it sure cast doubt over how strict the party is concerning stereoids.
    On a side note two Chinese badminton girls along with southkorean got disqualified today for trying toi loose ( lol ) . Tactic say some “booo” said the paying audience.

  • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

    1) There is a chance of doping between the test and the event. 2) No point in testing say Liechtenstein or Djibouti as they are perennial low percentilers. 3) There’s a LOT of athletes (just shy of 11K). Hope this helps.

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      These factoids were for Linette… Yes they’ve been checked, if any troll has a barrage of verbal abuse at the ready questioning my authority or self-esteem…

  • Glen

    People are getting way to defensive about this.
    How about you take race out of this completely, and just look at the numbers.
    It’s an outlier. It’s not about race.
    In this case, something miraculous has happened and when miraculous things happen skeptics question things. Skepticism is good, it’s part of the checks and balances that are necessary to prevent people from getting away with things.
    When mathematicians see an outlier, they try to find out what factors created this anomaly. So let people question it.
    Of course people might get their feelings hurt when people question possible greatness, but why not look at it from the big picture. If she did dope, then skeptics will have won, and she will be proven a cheater. If she didn’t dope, then the skeptics will have no evidence and look like assholes. Their reputations are on the line.
    So lets chill out on the race card and the name calling and wait to see who the cheaters/assholes really are.

    • Chad

      How is she an outlier? She has been winning golds for years.

      • Glen

        I’m not going to fall for your trolling this time. But I will respond in case you’re actually serious…

        No one improves that much, that quickly. 5 second improvement=outlier

        • Chad

          How is it trolling buddy? I was just correcting you. She was winning golds for years so she can’t be an outlier. 5 second improvement is an outlier? Why don’t you read the comments on this very page by kw explaining other similar outliers? Again, why people are slandering her without any knowledge of swimming is beyond me. Perhaps it’s the American media sesationalizing the whole matter but it’s still sad.

          • Glen

            So I don’t know whether to appreciate you for being an easy target or to be annoyed by you for making me repeatedly explain simple concepts (the latter being why I suspected you as a troll).
            Clearly winning a gold medal does not make you an outlier. Someone can win first place no matter what times they are putting up. Competition differs, it’s not a constant, it’s not part of what you measure. So it doesn’t matter if she had 1000 gold medals it’s still abnormal.
            Did I ever say it’s never happened before? Amazing things do happen, but so have unethical things. All of these have fallen into the same categories of outliers, this is why suspicion is raised.
            And of course it’s being sensationalized by American media, that’s what happens with private media, things get sensationalized. And you can count on state-run media to politicize it.

          • Chad

            So you didn’t address a single point I made. Just as expected Glenny boy. You don’t even make sense anymore. What makes her performance an outlier then? You’ve already been schooled on how her improvement isn’t an outlier (something YOU brought up). So what is it then?

        • Tony

          Glen, there are plenty of examples of young, elite swimmers improving by 5 seconds or more. Stephanie Rice, the previous record holder in the women’s 400 meter IM improved 10 seconds from 2007 to 2008, the year she first set the record. In 2007, she swam 4:41 and in 2008 she swam 4:31. So, Ye is less of an outlier than the previous world record holder.

          • Glen

            It’s the manner in which she pulled it off. That 100m split in the end was sensational. That’s what sets her apart from the field. It’s never been done. I’m not calling her a cheater, and saying she’s an anomaly, and given that her blood never comes up as a failure, that is a huge compliment.

            If you want physical data of her stats as being extraordinary, you can check out the statistical breakdown here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/datablog/2012/aug/02/olympics-2012-ye-shiwen-400-medley-statistics-data

            The main point I’m trying to make is this: it is very common for the media to point to doping whenever extraordinary things occur. If you pay attention to western media in the long run, you’d see it happens all the time. Throw in how secretive China is with their training, and their ratio of problematic exploits and people get suspicious. I don’t think anyone sees this as a “Chinese race inferiority thing” and if they do then they’re simply a bigot.

          • Tony

            Glen,

            Two years ago, she swam a 53.66 100 meter free as a 14 year old. That time is what the sixth place swimmer took in the Women’s Olympic 100 meter freestyle Finals today. No other competitor in the women’s 400 IM Olympic final has anywhere near that amount of speed. So, she may back off on her fly and her breast stroke legs (as it looked to me) so she has stamina remaining to use her best stroke to it’s best effect.

            Lochte and Phelps generally kill themselves through the first 300 meters and hang on for dear life in the last 50 to 100 meters (a strategy that hasn’t worked particularly well for Lochte this Olympics).

            Until I have other information, this is how I explain the anomaly.

          • Glen

            “Until I have other information, this is how I explain the anomaly.”
            I completely agree with this point, and I’m in the same boat as you. I hope the record holds and I HATE the idea that steroids always has to come up.
            But in the past two decades we’ve been realizing that sporting is a world that is riddled with doping, and unfortunately there are people who cheat that take away from the authentic athletes. So the process is part of the checks and balances.
            I’m a huge baseball fan, and I’ve had to watch that past few years as some of my favorite players got ripped to shreds for doping. To understand this position is to understand where it’s coming from. They are accusing her for a couple of reasons:
            1) She did something out-of-the-ordinary (amazing improvements, underdog status, world record, great splits)
            2) They lost, and Americans are historically sore losers, so they are trying to point to a reason for their failures. “Oh steroids is always a good excuse!”
            It’s not that they don’t believe in Chinese people’s ability to put up a gold in swimming, they’re just not good at the whole losing thing.
            So let’s all agree that it was an anomaly, I’m open to different explanations, I just don’t want this to be another case of China being a victim to the “West”.

        • Chad

          Not only that but you tried to make her last 100m seem sensational in a comment below and someone else had to explain to you how you’re completely wrong. LOL!

          • Glen

            I don’t think you understand. I am not arguing the fact that she did amazing things. She’s a great swimmer. But no matter which way you put it she did something out of the ordinary. Extraordinary. Outliers are great and amazing spectacles, Malcolm Gladwell believed it to the point that he wrote a best-selling book about it.

            But…
            When people do that in sports there are always people who question it. Especially the losers. My complaint is the dramatic over victimization of Chinese media. It’s not about xenophobia.

            And Chad, I understand you just argue for the sake of arguing, but your arguments will hold more ground if you look for the base of my argument and tear away at that. Don’t look for straggling points and cling to that as the cornerstone of your defense.
            If you want to argue, learn to go for the roots. Attack me for my belief that this is not and issue of race, because that’s what I care about, but I’m also aware you have trouble reading entire posts, so I’ll let it slide.

          • Chad

            How is her performance anymore of an outlier compared to all the world records broken during these games? You mentioned her performance improvement and it’s already been explained many times on this very comment page how it’s actually pretty common, even during these very games. I’ve asked you to explain this several times but you’ve yet been able to. So what about her performance makes it an outlier that causes the entire Western media to slander her and imply that she is a cheater constantly? Hm?

            Oh and how many have questioned Phelps on his 20+ gold medals if we’re going to talk about outliers? Thanks. ;) Make excuses all you want, but anyone with a brain can see there is prejudice behind these accusations.

          • Glen

            I gave you mathematical and numeral evidence in the form of a statistical chart explaining how she is an outlier. If you don’t agree with it I understand, but to say I never answered it just shows you weren’t paying attention.
            Speaking of not paying attention…
            Clearly you’re just reading/listening to what you want to see/hear. To say that Phelps hasn’t been accused of steroids is ridiculous. He’s been accused numerous times, along with many other record holders. You need to understand how often this happens.
            So, fir your next homework assignment: Try “Google”ing “phelps” “steroids” and spend the rest of the day reading the scandals. Get back to me once you’ve formed a logical opinion.

          • Chad

            I NEVER said Phelps hasn’t been accused of doping. There’s always going to be opinions of all sorts but how prevalent is it? Are the accusations plastered across the front page of every newspaper for a few days? Nope. Thanks for playing. Before you try to act all condescending, try to make sure you’re not making dumb assumptions about what I mean first. And for god’s sakes, if you deny that there’s far, far, far, far, far less articles on phelps doping accusations than ye shiwen, then you need your head and eyes checked.

          • Glen

            Sorry about my dumb assumption, I’m afraid you’re starting to rub off on me. But you have to admit, based on most of your arguments it makes sense for me to assume that you’re not completely “with it”.

            And yes, there are far less accusations to Phelps, I just needed you to become familiar with the fact that drug accusations aren’t something to be taken personally.

            And there has been a lot of talk about Ye Shiwen. Maybe it’s because the US doesn’t like to lose, so they point a finger at the superior. Maybe it is because of how rare it is to accuse Chinese athletes(far more American athletes have been accused). Or maybe it’s because this accusation happened in such a huge spotlight (the Olympics + gold medal + world record). Or maybe it’s because of the local media’s tendencies to victimize itself, and completely blow the story to entire new proportions. Maybe some of it maybe all of it, but given the circumstances it does make sense that this story has gone too far.

            But I certainly don’t agree with, or like the idea of public doping accusations. If you want to accuse someone or bring up question, it should be done behind closed doors. Media does a great job of blowing it up.
            So unless proven otherwise the Chinese team here has in some way been wronged. As the victim of this situation they can be the righteous ones and show they aren’t lousy finger pointing Americans. That way in the end they are truly the bet-
            -wait what?
            The Chinese Olympic team doctor just accused Phelps of doping…? OK scratch that, opportunity lost.

  • George Washington

    All foreigners are dogs and should not be trusted. This is what the Chinese are taught from birth. Hey folks get over yourselves! Yes, your athlete is under suspicion for cheating. Why? First of all because of your history of cheating. Second because of the corruption that is so rampant in your government. Third, because swimmers at this level NORMALLY do not increase their times by 5 or more seconds. It is not jealousy or bias. It is what history has taught us in the west. When something like this happens it is usually from cheating. If your government didn’t sensor most of your news you would know this as well. That being said we sincerely hope that this wonderful young lady did not cheat. We hope she is the next world famous athlete. But if in the next year she is found cheating ALL OF CHINA WILL LOSE FACE! Stop whining about being accused and prove that your athletes are not like your government.

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      Best not to worry about whether in 1 / 2 / 5 / 10 years time bio-chemists discover some substance or other in an “archived” sample of someone’s blood or urine. Let’s face it guys, if it’s undetectable now, and proven to be nice and safe for the body, TCM practitioners will be selling it to the public, and *I WILL WANT SOME*!

    • hangzhou.jack

      i dont think that they are taught ”’All foreigners are dogs and should not be trusted. This is what the Chinese are taught from birth.”’

      If so, how do you have an explanation for nearly all of the people living in china, smile and try to help the foreigners when they need.
      I think you are mixing something with the old communist system (russia maybe?)

      I feel that you are not in china, if so you can come and try.
      If you are living in china, maybe you are living in a place that you had some bad experiences, but these events happen all over the world

      • George Washington

        My Chinese wife has always told me that growing up in China they were taught never to trust foreigners. Thank God she realized later in life that this was government propaganda.

        • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

          Nice and positive… Your CN Chinese wife exercised appropriate judgement in choosing you… My SG Chinese GF I think same also after many years… A little bit of suspicion of white guys I would advise to any woman who is Chinese – in the West, in the East, on the equator. They need to choose a guy wisely for faithfulness… Ciao dude.

      • Glen

        Chinese are extremely kind and helpful in China on the exterior, but I think most foreigners living in China get the impression that there is an inner distrust and dissuasion towards us. Unfortunately the disconnect is there, no matter how kind people may act.

        • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

          I often joke slightly. However, as Neanderthal man emerged, some went “west and north”. Some went “east and north”. The result was Caucasians and Asians. As any man or woman who has flown from Asia to Europe knows, the mountains are big (the biggest). Marco Polo anyone…? PLEASE NOTE there is a possibility that Cro Magnon man (modern man) formed separately either side of the Himalayas. This in one posting explains differences; but not insurmountable differences.

        • Zappa Frank

          could you find a country where there’s no dissuasion for foreigners?

    • Capt. WED

      Weird, Americans think Chinese people are dogs & not to be trusted. Hmmm. Trade notes perhaps? WOOF

      Your Wife Shall Lose Face when she cheats on you with me. WOOF.

      • George Washington

        Capt. WED you should learn to interpret what you read and then quietly go back to your little cave.

  • Xiongmao

    No idea if she’s doped up or not but considering the chief doctor of Chinese Olympic sports in the 80s and 90s just came out and admitted that doping was used in just about any sport participated in, and that Chinese swimmers especially have had MUCH more than their fair share of being caught, who is really surprised that suspicion falls on this girl? She might be clean, might not be but it’s again neither a surprise that the nationalistic Chinese can’t seem to get their hands down and consider the allegations a bit. I’m not surprised they might not know about all the cases of Chinese doping since this kind of information has been heavily harmonized in the past.

    • Chad

      Because this is not the 80s and 90s. We’re in 2012. We don’t bring up Kirk O’Bee or Gianpolo Mondini or the dozens of American cheaters in cycling every time an American wins a cycling competition. Get a grip.

  • Me

    This is such a bullshit non story. One guy said he suspects that she cheated. He is an idiot and probably a racist. Why can’t Chinese people understand that when one guy form America says something stupid it doesn’t mean that ‘America’ said something stupid. Seriously, he is a fucking swimming coach. Have you ever met one before? Think about what kind of retard spends his time teaching children to swim faster?

    Anyway, being a racist myself, I completely agree with the idiot coach. I hope we uncover this new way that the Chinese are cheating in the Olympics. I mean obviously they can’t be performing this well on the up and up. Its not drugs because they passed all the tests. ( However they could be just bribing the drug testers. William Ockham would say that that would be the most simple explanation.) But what if it is something else. If there is a new way to cheat at something it will be this modern Chinese nation that will discover it. So how many decades and how many Olympics must go by before we discover what these cheating bastards are up to?

    • Nick in Beijing

      Why can’t they understand that? The reason is simply because they are a nigh hive-mind. When asked about Chinese habits and customs their go-to response is that they are Chinese, and all Chinese do/believe/agree with (insert custom or tradition here).

      When I bring up the fact that just because they are Chinese that doesn’t mean they need to follow their traditions blindly they get defensive and say I don’t understand China.

      A high-profile culture where the focus is entirely on groups with little attention given to individuals, of course they assume that other nations and other cultures behave the same. Since they feel that they speak for the whole group (the Han race, and the nation of China) then they feel that others do the same thing.

      When reading this post keep in mind phrases like “our China” and “our Chinese”. and other similar phrases.

  • B

    Me : i already said genetic manipulation, designed for one purpose, to rule the pool.
    Arghh兒兒

    • linette

      You mean like michael jordan, michael phelps etc….how dare them to win almost every games. Must be genetic manipulation or doping. What can I say…

      • wafflestomp

        Post a competitive race when phelps shaved 5 seconds off his best time. Go ahead.

      • Thach Sung

        Unfortunately, there are so many faked and illegal products come out of China so it’s right to question everything and anything produced by China, including the athletics who won any medals in London. Wake up China! The whole world isn’t that warm to your win all at all cost attitudes!?

  • ACE

    White Trash gets TRASHED!!!

    • hess

      BAZINGA

    • Risible

      ‘White Trash gets TRASHED!!!’ Ok now as a black man, I find that comment irritating. So i take it your comment is referring to all those mainland hoes who sell their low down skinny asses while buying all that crap ‘instant face whitener’ cosmetic nonsense. Talk about losing face. I mean face it;-) your swimmer wins, and you are all getting your little erections waving in the air. Your swimmer’s performance is then rightfully doubted what do you do? Run around with your little erections deflated screaming out ‘mummy look! It’s not fair’

      You all get older but you don’t grow up.

  • hangzhou.jack

    Well hello, i am a 老外.
    Let me tell you whats the problem… As the foreigners were not expecting a lot of medals from the china-team, they found the right to ask these kind of questions. They (especially western countries) think that the communist system and some country from asia cant have the chance of being number one, as (mostly what americans think) that their country (mostly, usa) is the best and must get all the medals…
    As someone up there, mentioned, there are lots and lots of times the foreigners banned for using drugs and etc…

    These games are really a chance for the world to show that another country with poor conditions (i know some cities have terrible sports complex but they have the WILL and DETERMINATION) but passion can show something different.

    I feel happy when i see chinese contestants’ happy faces or their cries as they brought something different for the game
    What i can say is, 中国加油!!

    • Nick in Beijing

      Insecure people with no personal right to acclaim grasping any opportunity to feel like they are part of the winning side.

      Pathetic.

      Foreigner defending his new-found home with equal fervor for no apparent reason.

      Equally pathetic.

      Blaming the U.S. for comments made by another comment.

      Pathetically biased.

      You’re a dolt.

      • Nick in Beijing

        Sorry, blaming the U.S. for comments made by another country’s journalist.

        My mistake (see what I did there? I noticed and corrected a mistake, rather than getting butt hurt over having made a mistake).

      • Alain

        @ NIC: With the mainland Chinese (note: not HK or macau people, or taiwanese), winning is above all, it is just not a culture that has any room for imperfection or second place, look at their own opening ceremony how regimented it was, and only the prettiest girls on display, style over substance. Yes, I preferred the london opening ceremony despite all the criticism it received, it was far more funny and human, and a good show.

        This pressure was the same under communist Russia. It is about the ideology of being ‘seen’ to be the best no matter what the cost, the athletes are just a commodity to the state

    • http://amazon.com/author/rc richardnorth

      China has been refuelling absolutely and thank heavens China exists in terms of permanent membership of the UN Security Council. Those of us who lived and saw the Cold War – which ended in the early 80s – know that MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) lives on for good reason. It may seem selfish, but I just want a couple of decades to work and play without the threat of nuclear war. Call me an old and decrepid expat if you want……I am.

  • lonetrey

    I’m not sure if it was a good idea for China/chinese netizens to get so pissy over foreign reporters and their questions. If foreign reporters want to be insulting with their inquiries, then that’s bad on them.

    By reacting this way, now I’ve been made aware of her potentially doping. My initial reaction was, “Who the fuck cares; she probably didn’t use drugs.”

    I have to say though, now that I see the large amount of interest in this, I’ve started wondering whether she’s done drugs or not. What else could explain the influx of attention on this media topic?

    That said, __I still give the chinese athlete Ms. Ye Shiwen the benefit of the doubt__. I just wish the chinese netizens wouldn’t play RIGHT into the media’s hands like that. I think that’s what irritates me the most in this topic.

    • elizabeth

      It’s a matter of face.

      • tai wai

        “Wah wah stop being mean to China, you’re hurting our feelings” doesn’t save much face.

        • elizabeth

          What do you mean? Do you know what I meant?

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