Litter After National Day Flag-Raising Ceremony, Reactions

Chinese crowds in Beijing's Tiananmen Square to watch the morning flag raising ceremony on National Day holiday.

Amongst the top Sina Weibo posts of the week, reshared over 60k times and with over 20k comments…

From Sina Weibo:

@央视新闻 [CCTV]: #Micro-Lens# 110k People Brave Rains to Watch Flag-Raising Ceremony, Trash All Over Ground Afterward: Today is our motherland’s birthday. Let us cheer and let us cherish. Please only leave behind your reverence, and take away with you your trash. To reshare/forward this is to promise [to not litter]!

Garbage and litter left in Tiananmen Square after crowds watched the National Day flag-raising ceremony.

Garbage and litter left in Tiananmen Square after crowds watched the National Day flag-raising ceremony.

Garbage and litter left in Tiananmen Square after crowds watched the National Day flag-raising ceremony.

Garbage and litter left in Tiananmen Square after crowds watched the National Day flag-raising ceremony.

Comments from Sina Weibo:

张忠杰2011:

This is the character of our countrymen!

djde_wvfp:

Chinese characteristics.

被IELTS折磨的小冬瓜:

A bunch of wai di cunts.

一笑庄主:

Year after year it is like this, sigh.

水云仙人:

Really, just what fucking use is resharing/forwarding this?

0zzzzzz0:

The characters of the people of the capital are the same.

蒋巍V:

Must be reshared, must promise [make a commitment to not littering]. Must [improve the society’s] civility.

似水柔情002:

Shows that there aren’t enough trash cans. [哈哈]

吴润昌:

Sometimes we feel angry about other people’s behavior, but what we need more of is self-reflection.

瓯江章鱼:

When they can’t even love sanitation, how can they love the country? What a joke!

xituyaya:

Truly fucking embarrassing.

治愈伞:

Can only say that our countrymen treat public sanitation with contempt…

沵是我滴-巧克力:

Looking at the first photo, are you reminded of something in particular? [偷笑]

晒被子的味道:

Mother?

玻璃盖卡吐露皮了:

Something that must be faced/confronted~

-曹寧-:

The fixed/regular headline of National Day.

秋枫晚林97A1:

Sigh, characters. Looks like character education needs to continue being strengthened so that our next generation will hopefully be a bit better.

谣言500转:

Garbage littering garbage, it’s normal.

走在路上想心事:

The birthday present given to mother.

兜兜熊熊:

I too probably would have been one of them.

薛元昊:

What kind of mother is what kind of son you’ll have, because the mother you’re talking about is a stepmother.

larissa–yang:

Truly, everyone needs to raise their characters!

WaIlFlower:

Hard to change one’s essential nature.

-流畅-:

The over ten thousand people criticizing here, have you never littered before?

UPDATE: National Day Tiananmen Square Litter Calculated & Explained?

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  • Maxhrb

    First

  • Alain

    Like, where’s the civic responsibility and caring about a clean environment dude, oh wait…I forgot

  • boob

    damn almos sofa

  • Guest

    American manners with Chinese characteristics

  • Atlas

    Hey guys this is your favorite mod reminding you to feel bad about yourself before commenting about China. Don’t forget to also tell us you know people in all countries may or may not litter.

    • Repatriated

      It’s true. BUT, in the USA, it’s not unlikely to see someone (not a sanitation worker) pick up someone else’s litter and put it in the trash. You’ll also read about outdoorsy kinda people complain that they “pack more out than they packed in”. Meaning they picked up someone’s trash. These outdoorsy people are usually well educated and well off people. Imagine someone in China that’s well educated/well off actually picking up someone’s trash?!?

      I used to live in Hangzhou. Hiking up the hills to some of the tourist trap-type places was pretty disturbing. Trash cans every 10 meters…but trash all over the place between them. I often see trash cans OVERFLOWING here in the USA.

      My wife’s first time to the USA, she actually commented about how little trash there was lying around on the roads etc.

      • JankyFosci

        Uh right… how often do you see that happening at say a concert or parade or any celebration actually? Many of them leave behind tons of trash. Must be a lot more litterbugs than decent, green citizens.

    • Angela Rose Macintosh

      I have to admit, I have seen litterbugs in other countries, but in Australia, from my experience, I’ve really only seen rebellious teenagers or late night drunks do it. As far as general population goes, if I saw a mother, father and child just throwing their rubbish on the street, it would surprise me.

    • Jeff G.

      I have never seen ANYTHING like what goes on in China.

      • Probotector

        You’d better not read the baby thrown off a bridge article then.

  • Kevin Yu

    I really never understood how people can even litter. In Beijing I saw that even though there are like trashcans every 10m they still throw their trash on the street. I even saw one guy, that stood directly 1m besides one can, throw their tanghulu-stick on the street.

    Most of the time I hear the reason “In the morning at 4AM the cleaning ladies will clean it up”…

    • boo

      because they just don’t care

      • Kevin Yu

        They should though. I mean if I go to one of their homes and throw the trash on their floor, they would get mad. Its the same about the enviroment…

        • boothebanned

          here folks tend to be a little self-centered and indifferent.

        • linette lee

          It’s funny that they behave like this outside littering all over the place. When it’s their own home they behave differently. You will see many Chinese are very crazy and clean in their own home. Obsessively clean. They won’t let you wear shoes inside their home you must take them off before you enter, leave your shoes at the entrance. And when you get home from work you must change to home clothes before sitting on sofa or bed because you sat on public areas and now the clothes are considered dirty. You can’t come to bed without showering and shampoo hair. Do not drop food crumbs on the floor. Use a plate or your hand to catch them if you are walking around while eating. They hate it when you drop a piece of crumb on the floor and they will vacuum it up immediately because they are afraid they can’t find that crumb later lol. They wash their pet’s four claws with soap after walking them outside to get rid of soil before let them run around in their home. lol.
          I am a bit obsessive like that. hahaha…..lol.
          They are obsessive. I am like that too.

          • Francis de Wolff

            True but that does not carry to the outside world, alas.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Have we met when you were another person my dear friend? If yes, I’m glad to see you’ve been reincarnated, good to have you back.

          • Francis de Wolff

            I was always here n’estpas?

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            i have quite a different experience….I knew some Chinese students back in the days when i was studying in Beijing. Their floor was 100% covered is leftovers, skewers sticks and other random crap…the first time i saw that i could not believe it how far they went. And those guys where at doctoral level! I know you could say that it was just “a room” and not “their home”…but come on…..I invited them to my place (the room next door) and they were shocked how clean it was haha, clean as it i clean the floor once in a while.
            I also remember that agency telling me that they didn’t rent apartment to Koreans because they are “dirty”…it’s funny because, without trying to be unfriendly, my opinion was QUITE different.
            I hear more and more about landlords renting specifically to foreigners because they know well that the Chinese are going to rampage the place and start feckin digging wholes in the wall for god knows what reason

          • Peter Wilton Cushing

            Just recently, I bought a philips vacuum cleaner, the security guard scrutinized it as though I was carrying an alien life form. Then when you use the same mop and brush for 40 or 50 years and mop floors with cold water, I should have expected nothing less?!

          • xiaode

            I am currently on a “on-site” installation of some machinery near TianJin, the last 2 weeks I have witnessed a group of not less than 4 Ayi´s cleaning up our place without any result by now…
            Convinced our client now to send them away and buy a pro. cleaning machine and teach one person how to use it…

          • Peter Wilton Cushing

            Indeed my good man, indeed. Get them floors buffed and shiny!

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            Nooo!! you destroyed the harmony~~~~~~~~~~~

          • Jahar

            My friend brought a few girls to my place to hang out once. They started smoking without asking, and then flicking their ashes on the floor… I kicked them out pretty quick.

          • Kai

            There are indeed Koreans who are dirty (just as there are Chinese who aren’t). I vividly remember this one dorm room with Korean students studying Chinese in China. You know those big foam puzzle pieces that parents can buy to assemble on the floor for a baby’s play area as a precaution when babies fall or stumble? They had bought a bunch of those for the floor of their room along with a small low table where they parked a hot plate. Most people who have been to Korea or know a bit about Korean culture will recognize this. They’d often sit around and cook Korean hot pot or instant noodles and the such. What made them dirty is that they would smoke in their room all the time and rarely clean up their food and bottles of beer. It wasn’t long before they were literally sitting in their own ashes and molding filth. It was arguably the filthiest dorm room in the entire foreign students dormitory.

            It was surprising to me too but apparently not exactly uncommon when it came to Koreans in China or back in Korea or elsewhere. Just as it isn’t uncommon to find pigsties amongst a lot of college kids in the States or really groti apartments where like 20 Chinese migrant workers bunk together in a single room.

            The problem is the generalizing. I share this story not to justify the discrimination but so it can be better understood that our perceptions and stereotypes don’t always hold in other people’s eyes and experiences, and that their observations and experiences aren’t to be so easily dismissed. Some people simply have living habits that are reprehensible to others. The mistake people make is then broadening it unfairly into some sort of absolute immutable truth about some generalized identity.

            I own my own place in Shanghai but I’m no stranger to rental situations and generally landowners do prefer to rent to Westerners, usually because they can get away with charge higher rents but also because there is the stereotype that Western tenants will cause less wear and tear. Tenants definitely get judged by appearances. A bunch of waidiren migrant workers are going to be discriminated against, especially by local Shanghainese who think they’re definitely going to end up trashing the place even with a deposit. If you’re a upstanding Chinese white-collar couple, you do better. I’ve known Koreans, especially younger smoking males, who have been turned away due to widely-known stories like the one above. Everyone justifies it based on personal interest, that they’re minimizing their risks.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            thanks! :)

      • linette lee

        They say it supposed to give jobs to people. But I don’t see why it’s so hard to just throw the garbage into the garbage bin like two steps from away. People should stop littering. The China gov’t should spend more money hiring people to maintain public bathroom. Instead of hiring garbage workers, hire them to clean public bathroom in malls and other areas around the clock. They need more public bathrooms.

        • boo

          national day holiday=LAME

          • Probotector

            Yeah, in the town I live, the heaving masses blocked the footbridge leading to McDonalds. Pissed me off a bit.

        • boo

          the one says giving jobs to people is an Ahole. if I break his legs I give a job to who sell wheelchair

        • twelve ways

          That is one of the most sensible comments I have ever heard on this site.

        • MrC

          Its funny when i see the homeless go through the trash cans for their daily snacks and they fuck all the rubbish all over the street in the process.
          Guess you cant win in China.

        • MrC

          they should privatize the toilet system, pay to go, like they do in France and other places.

          • Thor

            The private bogs are now free in Paris. In the other places they’re not and are seldom functioning.

    • chosan

      Well I kind of do, its a scientific fact Cats and Penguins out pace the human species in Cleanliness. Unless you live on Mars or Antartica you kind of expect this everywhere you go

      • Jahar

        You’re right. So let’s wallow in a big pile of our own filth. Let’s not have trash removal systems, just leaving in out house and on our streets.

        You expect this everywhere you go? Apparently you haven’t been to many places, because I’ve never seen anything like China, when it comes to littler and filthy areas.

        • Kai

          I’m not sure I understand chosan’s point so don’t mistake me as defending him. Cats and penguins, what?

          But if you’ve “never” seen anything like China when it comes to litter and filthy areas, then it is actually you who hasn’t been to many places.

          You do understand that most of the world and population live in conditions more similar to China than certain developed Western countries, right?

          Don’t get me wrong, this is not a justification for littering or disregard for the environment or lack of civic-mindedness. I’m just saying you’re making a wildly inaccurate statement.

          • Jahar

            ” ….I’ve never seen anything like China, when it comes to littler and filthy areas.”

            There’s absolutely nothing “wildly inaccurate about this statement. It’s 100% true. Or are you saying I have seen places that were worse than China? Or are you changing the meaning of what I said to “There are no places worse than China.”? That is not what I said. Not by a fair margin. I don’t even think it would be reasonable to confuse the 2.

            But if that’s what you are doing, then citing some examples would support your argument better than saying “most of the world…” I’ve been to Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, North and South Korea, Japan, Canada, the US, and Mexico. Not a long list, to be sure, but also a list where the average person doesn’t throw litter on the city streets. I’ve met people who have been to maybe 100 more countries, and not heard a single complaint about litter, unlike China, where, obviously, I have (not that this could be confused for solid evidence, of course).

          • Kai

            I’m sorry, you’re right, as far as what YOU’VE seen, it is entirely possible that you made an accurate statement.

            My disagreement is that I have, many others have, and it isn’t hard to see places like China especially in this modern age of travel and information availability, I broadened your statement from a testimony of personal observation to an assertion of absolute reality. If I had a layover in the Beijing Airport and for the few hours I was there didn’t notice any litter, I guess I could say I never saw litter in China and it’d be an accurate statement.

            I suspect however that you and I understand that there’s an inherent generalization associated with such statements. If you want to research litter and filthy areas in the countries you listed, you need only Google the country name and “litter” or a synonym for enough meaningful results.

            Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the prevalence of litter and filthy areas is the same in all these countries. I’m saying that if you picked a random place to go in this world, odds are you’ll end up in a place where the litter and filth situation is closer to China than developed Western countries. This is an appreciation for the facts of development throughout the world and for the world’s actual population. It’s also a reaction to the proclivity of some people to use the Western world not merely as a standard but as if it were the representation of the world when it really isn’t.

            In my personal experience and expectations, it’s excrutiatingly easy to see litter throughout South East Asia, Korea is a little worse than Japan, North Korea is actually pretty good, and Mexico is worse than the US and Canada. In the US or Canada, large amounts of litter are usually situational (concerts, downtown areas, ghettos, places with high pedestrian traffic density, etc.). In nice Orange County-esque low-density suburbs? Nah, it’s pretty clean. There are poor areas and urban areas in all of these countries with varying levels of filth and litter. Ever been to to dodgier parts of the San Francisco Tenderloin? Plenty of litter and human feces on the ground without nearly the same population density as urban China.

            However, like you, I expect less in at least some of these countries because the populations are more developed when it comes to civic-mindedness. SEA is very similar to China, with the notable exception of city-state Singapore being perhaps the best exception. Have you read indoBOOM? World’s fourth most-populous nation? Ever seen their slums? There are very nice, clean places in Jakarta just like there are in Shanghai, but damn, that place can be just as filthy as China.

            So count me as among the people you know who have been around in the world testifying that there is certainly enough litter to complain about in much of the world that is similar to China. Again, sorry for disrespecting your statement as personal testimony. I mean to say that most of the world is honestly more like China than the US/CAN/Western Europe in this regard and thus it’s unfair to say someone hasn’t been to many places if they recognize that litter happens and in amounts similar to China in many other places.

          • Jahar

            The things is though, we aren’t talking about slums or dodgy parts of the cities, this is all happening in the well developed parts of cities.

          • Kai

            I understand, and it’s still true in my observations, those of others, and as catalogued testimony and information online. For example, There’s less littering in upscale touristy Xintiandi than there is on lower-scale Nanjing Dong Lu than there is in Qipu Lu fabric market than there is in some side-street off Gonghexin Lu in Zhabei district (all Shanghai examples), just as there is a spectrum of littering in upscale malls of Kuala Lumpur down to its less visible less trafficked lower-rent areas. It’s a function of not only government/management but also the people there. Different places attract different (generalized) classes of people and maintain different levels of cleanliness too. It all feeds into each other. Even well-developed parts of China are frequented by rural tourists and nouveau-riche who haven’t quite shaken their low-class habits.

            To put this in different terms, much of the world is a society of poor and rich with little middle class. The big triumph of the US/CAN and Western Europe was the expansion of the middle class to become a norm-setting layer of society. Most of the world is dominated by the poor and their living standards and habits, which unfortunately include little concern with the environment because they have more pressing concerns. The places that are cleaner and nicer are artifically segregated out and maintained to attract certain types of people, often by those very types of people, the minority. Hong Kong is yet another great example where you can see high-end upscale clean and low-end filth and litter when you honestly explore the city. To an extent, Hong Kongers are generally ahead of the civic-mindedness curve compared to mainland Chinese, but an honest observation will reveal that there’s a larger difference in habits and attitudes between a rich HKer and a poor HKer than there is between a poor HKer and a poor mainlander.

            And most of the world is dominated by people similar to poor mainlanders. Every country and city has nicer bits, but the amount of filth and littering overall in most countries in the world is quite similar to China. In general, the US/CAN and Western Europe is far ahead of the curve and has far less prevalence of littering and the amounts of filth you can more easily see in places like China, but I’m saying the majority of the world is more like China than US/CAN/WE. This is simply a fact of socioeconomics. As people get wealthier, they start caring about more aspects of their living conditions and standards, and that’s when we see reductions in littering and filth. That’s why Shanghai has improved over the years. That’s why China has improved over the years. That’s why the US/CAN/WE has improved over the years. But so much of the world is still way behind the US/CAN/WE. That’s why you are way more likely to encounter conditions like China, with allowances for differences in population density, than otherwise if you were to randomly go anywhere in the world.

            Hope you get my point. Cheers.

          • whuddyasack

            Hey Kai,
            Thanks for pointing this out. As you can see, Jahar loves to exaggerate. His account is awfully suspicious, don’t you think? Actually, I did a test. A couple of Swiss friends recently visited China (mainly big cities), so I asked them about the spitting and rubbish issues. They ALL said all major cities were exceptionally clean and cleaner than some of the American cities they visited. =)

            P.S. Toronto for you.

            http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012/07/03/toronto_beaches_a_filthy_mess_after_the_canada_day_long_weekend.html

            As you can see, it’s filthy. Because “First-world” Canadians are sooo clean.

    • maybeabanana

      Mayyyyyyybe they are creating jobs for the millions…orrrrrrr…they want to make sure the city cleaners are doing their job and getting value of the people’s tax dollars.

      • xiaode

        Then I do have a better idea:

        Fact: Cleaning streets is a very low paid job, it´s dirty, it creates no added value and because it´s low paid, it´s even useless for the GDP to grow… right?

        But cars are very expensive, to repair them you need trained workers.

        So… instead of littering… just kick against any car parking on the street! Give these cleaners a good education and training to let them repair these cars.

        Result: streets are cleaner, maybe even less traffic because people will avoid to drive into the city centers. Better air quality. GDP will rise, more qualified jobs are created.

        I think that could be working….

        • Agus Dwikarna

          That reminds me of an old Soviet joke. Yuri was riding a train when he saw Leonid running along side the train. Bewildered, Yuri asked Leonid, “What are you doing? Get in the train!”, to which Leonid replied, “I’m saving 50 kopeks!”. Yuri scolded Leonid, “You should just run behind a taxi. You’ll save 5 rubles!”.

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      I’ve also heard Chinese people telling me that someone would pick the crap up…however i don’t exactly agree with you when you say that there are bins every 10m in Beijing….i know some areas do have a descent amount of bins, but in some other areas (in Beijing or other cities) they are so hard to find which interesting might be a sign of how Chinese people don’t care much about their cities being clean

  • anon

    i dont get it. this pretty much happens in ANY country where there’s some sort of celebration. it’s just human nature for some people to be dicks, regardless of culture or race or whatever

    • linette lee

      Yeah that’s right. Look at 4th of July in USA. It’s a mess.

      The netizens should criticize the daily littering of some folks. Why litter when they have bins two steps away from them?

      • TheSOP

        Yes, I don’t think it is a huge issue after a giant public event (although I must say in my part of the US people police their fireworks trash after the 4th, it not too messy), it is the daily stuff that is unacceptable. And the tourists taking their bad habits abroad is really appalling, I’ve seen mainland tourist litter in some very inappropriate places elsewhere in Asia (like revered places in other countries).

      • firebert5

        Right. The National Mall after Presidential inaugurations is always completely trashed. But that is indicative of a huge event where it is assumed it will be cleaned up by personnel. Contrast a one-time situation like that with ever day, in every place situations both here in China and in the U.S., or Great Britain, or Australia, or Canada, and the picture completely changes.

    • Probotector

      The issue is that in other, more developed countries (which China strives to be like) the concept of littering is frowned upon or even criminalised, and is considered socially unacceptable. In China on the other hand, the arbitrary depositing of waste (and I don’t just mean litter) is not only unchallenged, it is also considered acceptable or even a virtue by many people who are simply ignorant and selfish. If anything, this story is a microcosm of the air of self-centredness and indifference that pervades Chinese society. Yes, there are people who act like dicks everywhere, but unfortunately in China, it’s the majority of the people who act like dicks.

      • Kai

        That’s why those countries are considered “more developed”, and China is indeed “striving” to be more like them as evidenced by the public education encouraging people to stop littering, such as internet admonishments by CCTV.

        China’s behind the curve, but there’s a curve.

        @44b3906dea8a03c769a9d66f976e6759:disqus Only some of it can be blamed on people being dicks. Most of it is simply ignorance or indifference. These people were never taught that littering was wrong or perhaps a big deal. They may even have been taught that it’s fine to do because other people will take care of it, like in a restaurant or a theater. It’s why education is so important in changing the norms of a society over generations, to indoctrinate new values and norms of thinking into children so they carry them into adulthood, transmitting them to each other and down to their kids. These changes take generations and China is just one or two generations from when peasants were upheld as the ideal identity in a communist society.

        • Probotector

          And how successful are these new-fangled measures of ‘indoctrination’? Tell me, is anyone paying attention? Does anyone care?

          These changes don’t take generations, it just takes a society that gives a shit about following the rules. Look at the West. when I was growing up, homosexuality was a taboo, and considered deserving of mockery, then the law was changed and attitudes immediately changed to follow suit. Too far-fetched an example? Then look at Communism in China. This ideology took hold very quickly when the powers that be wanted it to and everyone believed in it very quickly.

          Social change doesn’t occur much in China because no one cares to put it into affect. If they did, it would happen over night. You shouldn’t make excuses for laziness.

          • Kai

            I think they’re working. I’ve seen a lot of change and improvement since I first came to China and I think there’s plenty of evidence that there are people paying attention and people caring. See the Chinese netizen comments, as well as the fact that you have CCTV, People’s Daily, etc. all towing the line on increasing public awareness of these things.

            Changes involving people’s habits and behaviors have historically taken generations. Yes, it also takes a society that gives a shit about following the rules. I understand you’re intent on generalizing China as not but I insist on unconstructive generalizations like that.

            Your example of attitudes changing after laws is inaccurate. Laws influence atttitudes, but attitudes influence laws. They feed into each other. There are people who are ahead of their time and behind the times. Homosexuality has made great advances in popular tolerance if not acceptance but remains mocked by many in the general population. Laws and sufficient enforcement of laws will indeed yield compliance that shapes attitudes, but there had to be enough of that attitude for such laws to be passed in the first place. Societies evolve, they don’t just change on a whim. The West has developed to what it is now. Thinking it somehow popped into its current state because someone one day made a conscious decision is either ignorant or dishonest.

            What took hold very quickly in China was populism, not communism. Communism was the name of an political and economic ideology that certain people yearned for and what they labeled their actions with. The peasants in China who gave the CCP the power-base to take didn’t so much seize onto communism as they seized onto anyone promising them what they felt they deserved, such as three square meals a day, a job, a life better than what they foresaw under any other government. The people in China believed in whatever they thought would give them a better future, they knew little about the actual ideology and even now they larely don’t care so long as the lower parts of their Maslow hiearachy of needs are being met and improving.

            Social change occurs in China all the time. Every emperor, Sun Yat-Sen, Chiang Kai-shek, Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, etc., they’ve all cared to change the society they were in and left their marks. Some were good, some were bad, some remain to be seen. Some moved society ahead, some held it back, some again remain to be seen.

            There is laziness and indifference in China but it is neither racial, cultural, or national. People only settle on such conclusions because they don’t care or are too lazy to engage their minds to identify what the real causes for any social phenomena or behavior are, because it is easier and somehow reassuring to them to dismiss people this way. The things you say are the same things people say about black society, about immigrants, about the poor, etc. around the world. It’s terrible.

          • Probotector

            Man, you screed is long. So you’re not from China?

          • Kai

            Certain issues deserve justice. No, I’m not from China. I’m from the United States.

        • Cauffiel

          Yeah, but…. China’s pretty fucking dirty.

          • Kai

            Never said it wasn’t. Fuck, a lot of places in this world are pretty fucking dirty. Doesn’t mean the people in those countries can be generalized as all selfish dicks.

          • maybeabanana

            I heard from a coworker that loved to travel all over Europe and he said the dirtiest place he’s been to is Greece. I was surprised.

      • Repatriated

        China: people will just drop trash on the ground without a care
        USA: people will drop trash on the ground…after looking around to see if someone is watching. LOL.

  • TJDubs

    They’re helping support the honest street cleaning jobs by leaving this paper, plastic, and fecal waste strewn about the square. How can you say these people don’t care, when they obviously show such compassion! This sort of mass-scale egalitarianism truly speaks to the character of our countrymen on this most sacred of days.

    • maybeabanana

      I was going to put up a fake story about teaching the people of the bubonic plague, but wait, it is theorized to have started in Asia on the silk road. The causes were fleas from rodents. But wait! there may not be a rodent issue if the Chinese love eating rodents…
      Ok, I got nothing.

  • Pandora’s Box

    Does anybody notices anything when you make a pig sty out of a place that is already a pig sty? Few more garbage piling up on a garbage dump won’t matter that much. It’s really no wonder why that French hotel refused to take in Chinese tourists. I can only imagine what the cleaning crew must have been put through.

  • Probotector

    The Chinese reactions:

    “Oh we need to do more to affect change for the Motherland, blah, blah, blah…”

    Nothing will ever change.

    Also, why do they blame waidiren? Aren’t Chinese all ‘brothers and sisters’?

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      Because it’s nice to blame others :p

  • Pandora’s Box

    Horking, spit tooning, picking their nose, farting, pooping/urinating in public, garbage everywhere, China has a long long way to go. And I’m not holding my breath.

    • Chinese Embassor

      In China, you ought to hold your breath.

    • chosan

      a long way to go to what? I’m not criticising america or China.Or comparing the 2. I will say Human beings are NOT CATS. Want a litter free society go live with the Cats

      • Angela Rose Macintosh

        I know someone that lives with cats. Trust me, it doesn’t smell good. Then again, the street outside my hotel doesn’t smell very good either.

    • Thor

      Guess what, yesterday night I stumbled across this piece of news on TV : the chinese government has released a “little red book” aimed at its fellow tourists travelling in France asking them neither to wee in the streets, nor to spit on the ground or litter, which figures.

  • TheSOP

    Wanna take a big step towards fixing your country Chinese nationalists? Burn that giant painting of the ugly balding STD infested pedophile that is hanging in Tiananmen. A nation that worships a man that killed more Chinese than Tojo is going to have major societal ills.

    • Washington Bullets

      That’s not a nice thing to say about the pope.

    • mai

      tojo didnt kill any chinese. he did try to kill himself though.

    • y.m.

      didnt the “americans” today kill massive number of native americans?

      • Not today. Only on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

      • TheSOP

        No you are thinking of Mao Zedong and the 10s of millions of Chinese that died because of him and his CCP. Thanks for playing though, next contestant!

    • Agus Dwikarna

      Well, that murderer fatty was 70% right and 30% wrong, according to CCP. So may be they could, oh I don’t know, display only 70% of his face, or may be put a black bar covering his eyes. That would be nice.

  • twelve ways

    Just this morning in Wuhan I saw a young girl finish a snack and hold the empty wrapper in her hand. She started walking towards the bin and her grandmother/ayi pulled her back, plucked the wrapper from her hand and tossed it onto the floor. Literally less than 2 meters from the bin.

    • Probotector

      Ayi knows best! Did she scold the kid as well?

      • twelve ways

        Not this time. I did see a toddler trip over a steel bolt that was drilled into the pavement for no reason. She banged her chin on the pavement and grazed it a bit. The old woman picked her up by her hand until her feet left the floor and then started spanking and scolding her.

        I think the fact that many kids are raised by their demented grandparents/great aunts and uncles etc is the cause of many of this country’s problems…

        • chandlerpatrick

          I saw the same thing once. I was at the park with my kid, and there was a little fish pond, where you could use nets to catch fish. This little girl slipped and fell into the water, her mother promptly pulled her out by the arm, and gave her a smack.

          • Probotector

            Do you think that’s a ‘loss of face’ thing, like she was embarrassed because bystanders would think she’s a bad parent?

          • chandlerpatrick

            I think it has a lot to do with that. The smack is also a way of telling the kid “you f-ed up”, and this is what happens…accidental slip or not, you’re getting a smack… If my daughter fell in, I’d make sure she got out ok, and making sure she is not hurt… not adding more pain to the situation… different parenting ideas i guess…

          • Jin

            “china…Smack?!” sorry ~.~

        • MrC

          Ive always said this.
          The fact parents dump the kids on demented grandparents is a massive step backwards for China.
          That generation as no responsibility,,no understanding of the modern world, they were raised during the worst time of China history and most are bitter because they can see whats going on around them now and they missed out big time.

        • Jin

          This is unfortunately true :[ omg I haven’t thought of this…
          It really could be a problem. Many parents let their parents do the work. (looking after their children)

    • Paul Schoe

      Unfortunately you were too far away to pick the wrapper up in front of the grandmother and throw the wrapper in the bin.

      • twelve ways

        I was in a taxi

        • Angela Rose Macintosh

          And you couldn’t tell the driver to stop, get out of the taxi, jog down to where you saw the incident, pick up the wrapper, put it in the rubbish bin, jog back to the taxi, get in, and continue on your way? Shame!

          • Nessquick Choco

            u r crazy a bit, but nice :D

        • Paul Schoe

          Understand, but nice to read anyway :-)

      • Probotector

        She wouldn’t have noticed if he did. She would have just said to the kid: “look, laowai” and then laugh hysterically.

        • Paul Schoe

          Yeah, you are right. I still keep up my hopes, but often it all falls flat because the older generations simply don’t even realise that they have done something that would have given a ‘better’ example.

          It forces me often to re-evaluate my values (am I indoctrinated by my own upbringing?), but until now, I keep remaining that throwing the wrapper in the bin is ‘better’ then tossing it on the floor.

    • KAMIKAZIPILOT

      Good god that is dumber than dumb. Maybe when all of today’s older people die off China will have some hope for the future. Until then, might as well just live for today, don’t worry about what might happen tomorrow.

    • maybeabanana

      I am pretty firmed in that most of our troubles are the caused by our older and more ignorant generation. “Yes sonny, for health reasons, you may piss in the streets if its an emergency…” Emergency is undefined to the lesser degree.

      • elizabeth

        I think the culprits are the ‘Little Emperor’ syndrome and diehard habits practiced by all generations.

        Recently, in a restaurant, a group of young parents were having a merry feast at one corner while their children climbed up and down the other unoccupied tables and chairs with their shoes on.

        In another incident, a young mother allowed her kid to stand on the train seat bare-footed. I was pretty impressed. But shortly after, she let him wander across the aisle to the seats on the other side…still without shoes on.

        But if I could only wish for one habit to change, hopefully, I won’t see anymore tender little bare bottoms and endowments openly exposed in public through slits in the pants.

        • Peter Wilton Cushing

          I wish they would control the little horrors. The boys are most spoiled of all.

          • elizabeth

            For some, they would if only they could.

            Perhaps there should be parenting classes for those who wish to get married (or own a second property for that matter).

        • maybeabanana

          My grandfather used to say, there’s so many people in China, and that the meaning of each life is cheap. I think most people/Chinese of course in their own selfishness will hold their child on a pedestal without realizing the harm they are dong in return. In addition, it is the lack of the grown up generation to want to question what it means to parent, what it means to have that responsibility to themselves, to their children, and to the country. They blatantly think they can throw their children to the government schools for education because money and wealth is on their minds, not the health of their own. Life there is indeed…mostly cheap.

          • elizabeth

            That is a sad reality that needs not be so.

            Life is cheap when each individual is seen only as a digit, a part of a whole, as a means to an end or when there is nothing to live for.

            But the ‘value’ of life ultimately depends on how each person orders his priorities and value system. It is within his control. He has a choice.

    • lonetrey / Dan

      I would like to slap those kind of people silly.

    • dumbledore

      If I had a 5 mao note for every time I’ve seen someone stand an arm’s length from a bin and still decides to dump his trash on the ground, I’d be a very rich laowai indeed. Sometimes I wonder what the hell they spend their time on in Moral Education classes (3-4 hours a week from first grade to high school). It can’t all be “Praise the Party and Chairman Mao!!”

    • Jahar

      I’m in Wuhan too and I see this kind of thing everyday. My favorite is when they throw bottles into the bushes next to the garbage cans.

      • twelve ways

        Part of the problem is that they think trashcans are kids’ toilets.

        • Probotector

          There’s a lot of ignorance and laziness in China. The question is, will it ever change?

      • al

        They aimed at the garbage cans.. but they apparently lack basketball skills

  • TheSOP

    October 1st is a sad day, it is the day China went (continued) down the path of feudal dictatorship. Whatever the shortcomings of CKS the Guomindang would have produced a far better China IMHO.

  • Pharenheit

    This is pathetic, you should see what Sydney looks like the morning after NYE,
    Or ANY country for that matter after a public celebration.

    Frankly the trash in those pictures isn’t even that bad in comparison. Get a grip and calm down. Sheesh.

  • Probotector

    …and what’s with the sitting on newspaper when sitting down outside? It’s as if their arse is too good for the ground they just shat on five minutes ago.

  • 白色纯棉小裤裤
    • Kai

      Everyone likes to criticize others. Some do it with the genuine hope for improvement. Others do it to reinforce their egos.

    • Probotector

      You do nothing but criticise westerners.

      • TheSOP

        Pretty ironic right? Claims victimhood (what is it about Chinese fetishizing the victim mentality?) yet does exactly what he decries in the same sentence. Does he understand how moronic that is?? I’m asking you because I don’t think he actually has a clue lol.

        • Probotector

          He/she will do their schtick, then get blasted by like 50 commenters on CS, then disappear. This will be the third time that I have witnessed this routine.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            It is difficult to argue in a second language with 50 native speaking people. If we were arguing in Chinese I could have beaten all of you hands down.

          • TheSOP

            喜劇者: co·me·di·an

            /kəˈmēdēən/
            Noun

            An entertainer whose act is designed to make an audience laugh.
            An amusing or entertaining person.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            You translation does not make any sense in Chinese, so stop making me laugh by becoming a comedian.

          • The Enlightened One

            Then you shouldn’t troll with people in their native language, kind of hard to get anywhere isn’t it?

            The ramifications of overstepping your boundaries usually never ends well.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Its fun to argue with them. it only becomes a headache when there are 50 of them that it’s impossible for me to reply to every post.

            After all I have nothing to lose.

          • Kai

            You have commenting privileges to lose.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            跟你说这里没有人不喜欢中国人的可是你总是说那些很麻烦的话总是会有人不喜欢你。所以说你希望西方人可以理解中国可是你给别人留下的印象是中国人比他们原来想象的还要傻逼。我19岁的时候开始接触中国的,像你这样没法简简单单好好的聊天的中国人碰到了几千。我刚开始学习中文的时候我很天真的爱中国可是我碰到那么多那些总是提出一些很夸张的话我就开始慢慢的觉得中国真的是个坡地儿,中国人傻傻的自卑感总是令他们要跟他们自己所想象却不存在的”国外”比较比较。跟这样的人真的是不好聊天,不好做朋友。你说其他国家有问题是对的,你总是认为别人说的话专门是为了侮辱你那你就是个白痴。有的人是这样,你把这个放在所有人的身上他们很不好的反应是正常的

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            我可不希望西方人理解中国, 我只是看不惯这网站上的一些人明明不理解中国却对中国和中国人进行毫无依据的诋毁攻击, 这个帖子就是个例子, 乱扔垃圾的现象在任何地方都会发生, 某些人却借题发挥用以来攻击中国.
            其次作为一个中国人, 来这个网站看到一大堆种族歧视, 以偏概全对中国人大秀优越感的恶毒言论, 不可能再有心平气和地聊天的兴致. 中国有句古话叫”以牙还牙,以眼还眼.”, 既然西方人在攻击中国, 我批评西方也是很正常的不是吗? 至少我的批评并不是毫无依据的.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            当然是歧视,叫China Smack! 而且你不要忘记是这个中国人开的网站还有那些事情是中国的某些论坛冒出来的事情。这里是有几个人不太讲道理只想攻击中国可是说实话其他很多只是开玩笑的说,是你没有感觉出来不是很认真地说。还有跟你聊的那几位说实话是你很不讲道理的。你就像跟很多中国人一样去乱想跟你在聊得肯定是想对你不好(谢谢中国教育)。你在这情况下批评西方不是正常的,有人在讨论和分享自己的经验,说实话说起中国的城市有点像垃圾场不是歧视而是事实,可是你反应只是为了get back。 你也要想象这里来过中国的那几位也体验中国不少中国的bullshit,我体验过的你没发想象,主要的是歧视和偏见,可是我又不会放在心上和愤怒的说中国的是shit。

          • Kai

            但你也无法否认很多人在这网站上常常愤怒得说中国的是”shit”。是,有的人发评论时候是开玩笑或用比较夸张的语气但讲话不公平的不用头脑的也不肯能算少。也太少人谴责批评那些人,反而很多人支持他们表示同意赞同投票。

            同时想再次解释网站取得名字不是为了鼓励对任何人或任何国家的歧视。能理解为什么某些人会这么想但已经解释过很多次了。

          • TheSOP

            They need it, they crave it for some reason. Like a jilted stalker obsessed with revenge for some psychologically self constructed wrong combined with a strong desire for acceptance yet insecure about their appearance the fenqing wants Westerners to pay attention to them, they need it. Unable to engage constructively or smarting from a previous snub they condition themselves to seek conflict as a quick fix for their desires of interaction with the Western that they loath yet so strongly desire.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Nope, I was just practicing English, and the best way to get replies on this website is to criticize westerners.

          • TheSOP

            So you’re an insecure attention whore craving interaction with Westerners? Looks like my analysis was spot on :) I applaud your directness little friend! Its funny that you say if you were speaking Chinese you would trounce everyone because in my experience with Chinese on their language turf they are just as uninspiring and predictable as you are. Usually resorting to 美够 this and 美够 that while claiming to be some highly educated so and so in China…. its actually pretty pathetic.

            So have you told your Western English teacher about your little habit?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Is not so difficult about English that I need a Westerner to teach me. On the other hand your Chinese is very pathetic. It should be “美狗” not “美够”.

            I am really amused when you try to pretend you know some Chinese.

          • booooo

            go hang with your languages.

          • TheSOP

            No its 美国, be sure to get that one right.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            That’s even worse, “国” and “够” sounds differently.

          • Probotector

            Your first sentence had a grammar mistake… are you sure English is that easy for you? Remember, we only understand you because we’re good at piecing together broken English, not because your English is good.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Are you sure that when native english speakers type comments they never make typos and gramma mistakes?

          • elizabeth

            Errors in grammatical structures are unlikely to be typographical in nature.

          • Probotector

            …and you don’t have anything better to do?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            You should ask this question to yourself.

          • Probotector

            Good rebuttal there. You just admitted you’re purposely trolling to “practice English”. Surely there’s a better way to go about it?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            I don’t think telling a truth is trolling.
            Probabaly it’s because I make westerners lose face?

          • Probotector

            “Nope, I was just practicing English, and the best way to get replies on this website is to criticize westerners.”

            This is trolling, be it true or not.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            So in a westerner’s mind criticism is equivalent to trolling? That’s very interesting.

          • Kai

            No, criticizing to get replies is trolling.

            Or more specifically, intentionally posting inflammatory remarks for the purpose of making people angry and soliciting negative emotional responses is trolling.

            I’ll give you a wee bit more benefit of the doubt here, that you didn’t express yourself accurately, because if not, what you said there does suggest trolling.

            Now, your first comment isn’t unusual as far as the bar is set here on cS for generalizations and criticisms of generalizations. I’ll even say
            @disqus_5xS38xIeTi:disqus and @d2c8805b108614877fbfc58a8e1400e6:disqus were the ones to who decided they knew everything there was to know about your identity and your motivations and it was they who first attacked you personally. Therefore, I’m not entirely unsympathetic to your subsequent reaction to them either. Still, the discussion devolved into ad hominmens and you contributed to it.

            Is that what you were after? Are these the replies you wanted when you posted your first comment?

          • The Enlightened One

            Westerners don’t really have a “face” system. Most westerners don’t and can’t ever comprehend what “face” is because it is one most inexplicable things in Asia that causes many people to do incredibly stupid things.

            The western way of thinking stems from Greek logic and sound reasoning of patterns. It clashes horribly with the Asian “face” thing, which I find, has stronger ties to emotional stimulus rather than mental.

            Bie shuo feng pi, yong ni de nao zi ba.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            The face concept…it’s just like when we were kids and we couldn’t admit we were wrong when we were and we got upset and started swearing and shouting because we didn’t know how to get out of a situation without admitting that we were wrong, remember?

          • The Enlightened One

            True, but I still remember learning from the process. Even though I wouldn’t show that I was wrong, I knew deep down inside that I was wrong. Haha…

            However, through many of my interactions in China… I find that they do the same as you say… can’t admit they are wrong but then go into TOTAL and COMPLETE denial that there is even an ounce of possbility that they are wrong and thus learn nothing. Some do, but most don’t.

            Quick to point out the errors of others but no real self reflection.

          • Kai

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)

            Westerners have analogues to the “‘face’ system”. The vast majority of how “face” is used in Chinese is easily understood and found in Western society as well. The only real significant difference is based in linguistics, in how broad or narrow a term/word/character is in each language.

            So what you said is incorrect. Face is hardly inexplicable. It and its analogues in every society, including Western society, cause people to do incredibly stupid things. People who don’t understand “face” are usually guilty of not trying to because it’s more convenient to keep it exoticized and a catch-all label for criticisms of a people one doesn’t identify with or doesn’t want to identify with.

            Your second paragraph is dishonest, and ironically a perfect example of another obnoxious thing some Chinese people do with regards to “face”: Cherry-pick some ambiguous historical “positive” and associate it with a generalized identity that they identify with in order to bolster their ego.

            “The Chinese way of caring for their parents stems from Confucian teaching and ideology. It clashes horribly with the Western way, which I find, cares more about selfish individuality than caring for those who cared for you.”

            See how that works?

          • The Enlightened One

            That would be your opinion. Have you lived in China for nearly a decade?

            You mentioned you were American, how much time have you spent in China?

          • Kai

            It’s an opinion as someone who has grown up intimately with the Asian concept of face AND its Western analogues. It’s also an opinion grounded in reasoned arguments corroborated by respectable scholars. So my opinion is both personal and objective-based.

            I’ve lived in China since January 2006, so that’d be nearly 8 years straight. I understand how this is superficially relevant but what is more relevant is an actual reasoned argument for why the concept of face has no Western analogues. A legitimate argument for generalizing Westerners as logical versus Asians as emotional would also be interesting.

          • Probotector

            The western equivalent of ‘face’ would be ‘respect’, I think. Both are dubious concepts, but the ‘face’ culture in China is far more pervasive.

          • Kai

            I dunno about these concepts being “dubious”. It is what it is. It’s vanity, pride, respect, etc., and the most common situations involving “face” in Asia are ones Westerners can easily recognize in their own societies, like giving proper respect or deference to a person based on their identity or social position, about not needlessly embarrassing someone, about treating people with consideration to context, situation, and participants. It is extremely difficult to think of a common Chinese “face” situation that doesn’t have a popular analogue in Western culture/history.

          • elizabeth

            The concept of ‘face’ is more than just emotional or personal. It is almost like a system that establishes a person’s place in the Chinese social hierarchy which in turn determines the clout and power he has and that is also linked to guanxi and the way business is conducted.

          • elizabeth

            It’s the quality, not quantity, of replies that matters more. Criticize if you only wish to learn how to quarrel in English.

            You’d probably turn many people off in real life if you used the kind of words and tone that you learn from angry people online.

          • Probotector

            Psychoanalysing Chinese bigots is not an endearing concept.

          • lonetrey / Dan

            I generally don’t comment or talk to these kinds of people, it kills there attempts to learn English as well as reinforce my “blind eye” approach.

        • Gordon Gogodancer

          Victim mentality, i would think, is a great way to control a population. Tell them that everybody hates them and everybody is mean to them and they’ll obey any kind of stupidity just because they want to get back at you for something you may or may not have done or thought or whatever..

          • Germandude

            Hey! Why do you bring the US into this? Cause the way you describe it, just check out US news about the Middle East. Like, who did what, who is bad and why they don’t like us….
            See how that worked? And the best thing: It’s still working…

      • 白色纯棉小裤裤

        Nope, I am learning English by criticizing westerners.

        • TheSOP

          When I read Chinese news articles with comments about the USA, 80% are simply talking shit, especially if it is something bad that happened to the US. Your comment above is a simple lie and we both know it. So here is your English vocabulary for the day:

          说谎者: Liar
          Noun
          A person who tells lies.Synonyms
          fibber – storyteller – fibster

          Ok that will be 5 mao for the lesson.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Please find me an article where Chinese talk shit about American people littering.

            I bet you can never find one.

          • Repatriated

            LOL. Your leaders can find the “everyone is against us” in anything. A movie like Pacific Rim, for example, instead of enjoying it for just being a movie, there’s a bunch of jive about it being propaganda.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Please name one of the leaders who said Pacific Rim is a propaganda.

          • Repatriated

            “The decisive battle against the monsters was deliberately set in the South China Sea adjacent to Hong Kong,” Zhang said. Beijing has territorial disputes with most of its neighbors in the South China Sea. “The intention was to demonstrate the U.S. commitment to maintaining
            stability in the Asia-Pacific area and saving mankind…

            “Soldiers should sharpen their eyes and enforce a ‘firewall’ to avoid ideological erosion when watching American movies,” Zhang warned.

            Stop being a fucking sheep and wake up, please.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Who tells you that Zhang jieli is a leader? What rank is him?
            I don’t think just any random people from the PLA can be considered a “Leader”.

          • Repatriated

            If ANY member of the PLA pointed at you and screamed “smoke my cock NOW”…you’d do it. Now shut the fuck up and go back to trolling QQ for little girls, asshat.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            That sounds someone from the US army.
            And I am sure you will smoke his cock.

          • Repatriated

            Now you’re just embarrassing yourself. Zhende. Go back to complaining about how China doesn’t have enough women for the amount of men…while ZhangJieLi enjoys all 6-8 of his erni for himself and you sit at home punching the clown.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            WTF is “erni”? Please go literate yourself instead of making up bad stories about China on the internet.

          • Repatriated

            OMG. Here I am teaching the idiot his own language. If you know “WTF”, you couldn’t gather that I made a spelling error in “ernai”? You know, xiao lao po, 2nd wife, little wife, whore on the side….etc……

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            You tried to spell one word and you got it wrong, how pathetic is that. And I don’t need an illiterate person to teach my own language.

            I totally understand that you like to “punch the clown” while sniffing your mother’s pantie.

            See, English is not as hard as you think.

          • Repatriated

            In a bylined commentary carried by the People’s Liberation Army Daily, Zhang Jieli,
            wrote that Hollywood movies “have always served as a propaganda machine
            to convey American values and their strategies in the world.” He said Pacific Rim,
            which has grossed more than $100 million in China, failed to convey a
            peaceful message but instead “exported the U.S.’s rebalancing of its
            Asia-Pacific strategy.”

            http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/chinese-pla-officer-tells-troops-615091

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            That would be difficult to find as Chinese don’t seem to commonly compare situations which are to their disadvantage (you can thank to the Chinese press for that).

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/fourth-of-july-revelers-pack-fort-mason-with-trash/Content?oid=2201060

            Have you read this article? Thousands of Americans left thousands pounds of garbage.
            While 110,000 Chinese people only left 10,000 pounds of garbage.
            So on the national day celebration, American people litters 10 times more than Chinese people on average.
            Are you blind to say that Americans are doing any better?

        • Gordon Gogodancer

          haha at least you’ve got a little bit of humour so there might still be hope for you

    • TheSOP

      ZOMG that is so original, China receives any comment that hint of criticism on a foreign BBS and Capt Fenqing must run off and find a collection of articles showing that America or the West, or whatever entity drives Chinese insecurity today, is the same as China, wait make that worse than China! Do they teach you that at Borg school? Seriously I wanna know. Why do I have a feeling that you actually keep this collection of links as a DOC file on your computer for later reposting?

      So if we are generalizing can I say that “People in every country talk shit. The only difference is westerners dont care, and Chinese like to get super butt hurt and run around writing papers and making citation as to why they are the victims of some grand hate campaign that exists solely in their overly sensitive middle-school level maturity minds”? That’s a generalization and unfair one, just like yours. But it does have an underlying layer of truth. Yours is just utter BS.

      I bet you are a big hit at parties.

      • 白色纯棉小裤裤

        Why you look so mad? Did I hurt your feeling by speaking out the truth?

        • Kai

          You three need to stop trolling each other. Instead of a arguing a point, you guys immediately went into accusing each other of being some sort of “identity” (westerner, fenqing, whatever) and simultaneously criticizing the worst image you have of that identity and reinforcing each other’s negative perception of that identity.

          Already, this has devolved into pointing out spelling errors, as if that somehow makes one side’s generalization prevail over the other side’s. 18 comments and counting, something like over 1/3 of the comments on this post so far, dedicated to slinging generalizations at each other.

          @d2c8805b108614877fbfc58a8e1400e6:disqus @disqus_5xS38xIeTi:disqus

        • The Enlightened One

          While you are right that all places around the world do have litter and pollution… I find what TheSOP says to be true that Chinese do have a massive need to always play the victim and deflect the blame/attention to someone or something else immediately without reflection.

          Especially when it comes to interactions involving foreigners.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            You are right that Chinese don’t like to say “You are right.” after blamed by westerners for a matter on which westerners are not any better.

          • The Enlightened One

            But I just said you were right, didn’t I?

            In general, I wouldn’t agree with you on that. I think if you approach most westerners calmly and rationally they would agree… it just really depends on how you do it.

            Chinese are very emotional and like to express their opinion through emotions… that normally doesn’t tend to work out well with westerners and usually ends up in a back and forth arguement rather than a debate.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            So did I

          • The Enlightened One

            Good then the world can make progress if more people follow suit.

          • Francis de Wolff

            You really look like that dude in Shenzhen who likes tsingtao beer and youtube videos, are you sure you don’t hail from South Africa?

          • The Enlightened One

            Haha, you are persistent on this… but nope, I am not him.

            Why wouldn’t I admit it, if so?

            Nope, from Canada. But I do like Qingdao beer.

          • Francis de Wolff

            No worries then, but by god you are the spitting image of him, or his doppelganger. Actually you look somewhat muscular he seemed more fat/gaunt. Must be that moneyed xie guy who is he. I like Qingdao beer too, but outside of Qingdao itself it is crap.

          • The Enlightened One

            Haha, perhaps.

            True, but I still prefer it or Harbin to Xue Hua (Snow, hate the after taste). I was wondering why Qingdao tasted so much better when I actually went there (the city itself) and ordered a few pitchers.

          • Francis de Wolff

            Me too, xue hua is just like water. The “zha pi” in Qingdao is just great however, either by pitcher or glass.

          • linette lee

            I like the taste of qingdao beer too. I also like the city Qingdao. I think that maybe the only place I would want to live in if I am to move inside China. It’s by the water just like HK.

            http://chinavacationindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Qingdao.jpg

          • The Enlightened One

            I think Dalian is a nice city as well, same sort of idea as Qingdao but maybe just cleaner and colder.

          • Peter Wilton Cushing

            The pollution was pretty bad last time I was there, that bridge looked impressive though. Also in summer it is tourist hell, hotel prices go up, it is crowded (due to the nice sea breezes meaning not needing A/C as much!), and just basically not pleasant to be in. The train station traffic situation is batshit crazy. Too many polluting factories in and around the city, and one place the stench of sewage was unbearable. A shame, as so much potential.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            emphasis on the back and forth

    • Repatriated

      What a load of shit. Chinese people will blame Japanese for the litter before criticizing themselves. Have you ever been to China?

      • 白色纯棉小裤裤

        Have you ever read the translated comments?

        Almost all of them are self criticism, and I don’t see a single one of them blaming Japanese.

        And its amusing that you are asking a Chinese national “Have you ever been to China”

        • Repatriated

          The translated comments aren’t much of a sampling of how critical many Chinese can be.

          Nothing wrong with asking a Chinese national if they’ve ever been to China when they are so blind that they can’t see what’s happening around them…

          In all the years I lived there, never once did I hear someone say “OK, I’m sorry, I am wrong”. There was always some excuse about how I don’t understand the 5,000 years of China or whatever to justify an opinion. Many of those excuses included criticizing everyone else.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Chinese like to criticize ourselves but not infront of a foreigner. He is correct about that you don’t understand the 5,000 years of China.

          • 煜 李

            I’m a Chinese. I just want to say: Hey,
            dude, are you out of your mind? People criticize china because Chinese people are doing badly. There‘s a problem existed! Just accept it and shut up! Work hard on your own job! You cannot make it any better by criticizing other people.
            People in mainland China are not idiots, as they have the same IQ with the Japanese and Taiwanese, even higher in most big cities, but are acting like filthy animals! Why?You should figure that out! Then you’ll realize how stupid you
            are here defending such a ridiculously huge country like China!

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Chinese people are already criticizing ourselves. So there is no need for foreigners to criticize on the same matter again.

            No I am not defending the acts like litering, I am just asking foreigners to mind their own bussiness.

          • 煜 李

            麻麻,又有人说我不是中国人了。你说我要还不努力换国籍,对得起这些对我寄予厚望的同胞嘛!

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            看起来我不是第一个嘛, 为什么你不从你自己身上找原因呢?

          • 煜 李

            呵呵。。当然,我们时时刻刻都应该反省自己的言行思想。但是,并不是说我要从自己身上找原因,我就不能发表我当下的见解了。

          • elizabeth

            It will benefit you more to listen to constructive criticism than to focus on who is dishing it out. Chinese do not have all the answers and you only stand gain to see things from the outsiders’ POV.

            If saving face means gaining respect, you’d get more respect by being more receptive (not submissive) instead of being defensive all the time. Not everyone is an enemy of China.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Tens of thounsands of Chinese netizens are already criticizing it. How is several outsider’s POV so different that without them we do not have all answers to it? And If the several outsiders are so smart, how come they fail to see that the same thing which they criticize about China also happens in their own country?

          • Repatriated

            Cherry picked comments (that are chosen FOR the type of response), out of 1,000s of others that weren’t selected to be translated, don’t mean much.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Wow, how dare you say that its cherry picking while you have neither read nor have the ability to read the original comments.
            When I read the original comments myself I found that the ratio is consistent with that of what CS has translated.

          • Repatriated

            I do in fact dare to. What are you going to do? Continue your little chest-thumping crusade? At first I thought it was quite amusing to bait you, but to be honest, it’s getting a tad boring. It’s the same “I’m Chinese, I know everything, you know nothing about our 5,000 years of history” response every time. I was hoping for something a bit more articulate, but you’re living up to be the typical, boring, brain-washed person I’d expect you to be.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            You was hoping for something articulate while you can’t even spell a single word correctly? Is it sarcasm?
            You said our leaders said that Pacific Rim is a propaganda however all you have is a random people from the PLA who wrote an article on a newspaper.
            You said that CS is cherry picking while translating comments but you have absolutely no knowlege about the original comments.
            All of these has proved that you are an ignorant person who tries to show that he knows everything but fails miserably.

          • The Enlightened One

            I have but it was few and far inbetween and usually the foreigner had to speak Chinese to explain their wrong to them. Overwise, the Chinese would brush off the situation as an idiot foreigner doesn’t know anything and is just trying to make them lose face.

            The younger generation is changing however. I have seen first-hand how many of them are starting to rebel against the ignorances and idiocies of their parents and grand parents.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            My parents also possess some behavious that are considered “uncivilized” such as spitting, littering, crossing the road, not fastening seat belts.
            However, I still think that they are better person than me because they are hard-working, enduring, willing to sacrifice alot for family. Those are the characteristics that really matter.

          • The Enlightened One

            Well, I guess that is a matter of perception. I agree with you that the characteristics you mentioned are more important than some of the ones you mentioned.

            However, sacraficing for your family doesn’t mean much if they are not also safe. So perhaps crossing the road with you (when you were a child) in a busy intersection or not putting on your seat belt should also really matter.

            Again, I think the younger generation of Chinese will change the country considerably in the next 20-30 years. I play a lot of online games and chat with them (young Chinese men) in my spare time and they aren’t all fenqing or totally self absorbed like many foreign men believe.

          • The Enlightened One

            Well, I guess that is a matter of perception. I agree with you that the characteristics you mentioned are more important than some of the ones you mentioned.

            However, sacraficing for your family doesn’t mean much if they are not also safe. So perhaps crossing the road with you (when you were a child) in a busy intersection or not putting on your seat belt should also really matter.

            Again, I think the younger generation of Chinese will change the country considerably in the next 20-30 years. I play a lot of online games and chat with them (young Chinese men) in my spare time and they aren’t all fenqing or totally self absorbed like many foreign men believe

          • Probotector

            I agree with the last part, there are idiot do-gooder Westerners in China. God they are loathsome.

            However, I’m not so sure the younger generation is that receptive to progress.

          • Probotector

            If a Chinese person admitted wrong-doing, the world will end.

          • Kai

            How is this sort of comment any less obnoxious than comments like “you’re not Chinese, you don’t understand China”?

            I get it’s a hyperbole and within your little groups of like-minded comiserators, it’d be understood, but you guys do know you’re just vomiting hate on a public forum read by a lot of Chinese people who don’t deserve this, right? Or are you guys rationalizing that since some Chinese people do it about foreigners, you’re justified in doing it about Chinese as well? Does this make you any better than them?

          • Atlas

            Sorry, God.

          • Probotector

            I know it is an inflammatory comment, and I accept your criticism and indignation. Normally I wouldn’t write something so crude.

            On a different note, I’m interested to know what your connection with China is, apart from being Chinese-American? Do you live in China, or have you lived here before? This isn’t sarcasm, I’m actually interested to know.

            What I’m getting at is, being Chinese-American, you are not considered foreign in either country. Therefore, you can’t know what it’s like to experience constant and relentless hatred and xenophobia that a so-called ‘foreigner’ receives in China. The reason a lot of us ‘like-minded comiserators’ have the attitude we have is the result of frustration, and we see CS (partly) as a place to sometimes exchange and release such frustrations, (especially if the CS news story and/or the Chinese netizen comments are about foreigners or are about the negative aspects of China). I’ll agree that the argument does tend to descend into trolling, but these days (with the exception of the above comment), I do try to keep it clean.

            In any case, speaking only for myself, my negativity on CS is only in reaction to the abuse I receive in my life or on the forum. I know it’s sometimes not welcome, and I need to be mindful of what I say.

            I am aware, and grateful in fact, that you and your new deputy have been working hard to keep it fair in the comments section. I myself was the victim of severe trolling and cyber bullying on here only a few months ago, which prompted me to leave for a while. I am glad to see that such people are no-longer here. I’ve also recently noticed that you are equally tough on the Chinese trolling as well, so I appreciate you’re trying to be fair.

            Please note that most of us who are critical or seem hateful towards China would actually like to get along with Chinese people, it’s just that we often (but not always) feel that many of them don’t want to get along with us.

          • Germandude

            Mate, I don’t know Kai well, but if he is an ABC, your statement of: “you are not considered foreign in either country.” in my eyes is totally wrong. By many people, he will be considered foreign in both countries!

          • Probotector

            How exactly? Americans don’t really consider anyone foreign, as long as they’re born there, and generally welcome genuine foreigners anyway. The Chinese will assume he’s one of them, based on racial appearance, and even if he says “wo shi meiguoren”, many of them will say he’s not.

          • Germandude

            I don’t know but while I was in the US with my wife, I was the guy. The guy from Germany. My wife however was the foreign chick from China…

            And regarding China: Ever heard of the expression that many Chinese say to Chinese that have been abroad for some time? They call them (like my wife), a “banana”. Yellow from the outside, white in the inside…

          • Probotector

            Well there you go. If Kai is Chinese-American he was most likely born there (you’d have to ask him); you and your wife weren’t, and you’e not American, hence, that’s why why you were considered foreign. Now, is it insensitive to label you that? Yes, and I don’t condone it. Nevertheles, you can see the difference between his situation and yours.

            Regarding the whole banana thing, yes that’s one of their epithets, but at least they wouldn’t be yelling “Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!” and pointing and laughing at him, calling him “laowai” etc. like they do to you and I. They would assume hes just another regular Chinese guy going about his business.

            That’s what I meant.

          • Germandude

            Yeah, I get your point. What I am trying to bring across is that this kind of mentality can be found everywhere. I bet with you that an ABC in Louisiana or South Carolina is not regarded as an American by all the people.
            The same as a German-Turkish* who was born in Germany and lived there for 20 years is still a Turkish, or a “German Turkish” in the eyes of many because of his name or physical appearance.
            *I call that person German-Turkish here for clarifying the example
            I understand your example of “Helloooooooo…” and actually had to laugh because it just happened to me today.
            Are you in Shanghai btw?

          • Probotector

            No, I’m in Henan.

          • Kai

            That’s true in many places but untrue in many others. It all depends on where you are. In a very historically multicultural city like Los Angeles for example, an Asian (or Latino) face does not necessarily mean foreigner or immigrant to a local (especially if you don’t speak with an accent or otherwise have adopted American mannerisms and idiosyncracies). This isn’t true in many places where Asian/foreign appearances are much rarer.

            This is just like the difference between some backwater village in China versus Shanghai. While foreigners unfortunately still get heckled ocassionally in Shanghai (it is still a city with a ton of migrant workers from the rural parts after all as well as being extremely diverse with all sorts of idiots), the instances are usually less than in more isolated, less developed parts of China where foreigners are less commonly seen and that much more novel or “strange”.

            You don’t think I’ve never heard people yelling “ching ching chong chong” at me in America? Never been heckled with people pulling back their eyes to make them appear smaller? Never been told to go back to my own country? Don’t be ridiculous. Does it happen as often as it happens to you? I honestly don’t know because I suspect you exaggerate how bad or how consistent your experiences are, using really absolute black-and-white language without much nuance. I know that certain places are worse than others, just as they are in China. I know to expect that.

            Nothing brings nuance and greater understanding like actual exposure and a whole damn lot of Chinese people haven’t had much exposure and interaction with foreigners. A whole damn lot of them are also very poorly educated. This is very different from many Western nations where people have had a lot more exposure and a lot more education. As much as racist attitudes still exist amongst Americans, as demonstrated by so many comments made by Americans here, Americans at least can’t say they haven’t had racial sensitivity education institutionalized into K-12 compulsory education. China? Not so much. It’s not hard to understand why so many Chinese people have such ignorant and sometimes even hateful views towards foreigners. That’s not an excuse, but only by understanding it can you hope to change it.

          • Probotector

            You’re not trolling me are you?

          • Kai

            Uh, how would I be trolling you?

          • Probotector

            At least this one was short… because you always nitpick everything I say. Are you trying to make me feel guilty about feeling bullied and oppressed in China? Everything you’ve mentioned above is beyond my control, yet you seem to suggest that progress in this world is somehow all down to me and my attitude.

            You say:
            “but only by understanding it can you hope to change it.”

            Good, please tell me how.

          • Kai

            You see me as nitpicking. I see myself as disagreeing with unjustifiably exaggerated absolutist statements. For example:

            Why would you think that anyone in China would ever look up to a foreigner?

            Dude, how do you even say something like that with a straight face? On a site like chinaSMACK where there are countless examples of Chinese netizens “looking up to” foreigners?

            Trolling is usually defined as making dishonest statements intentionally to get a negative emotional response from other people because it’s enjoyable to make other people angry. I’m not making dishonest statements and I don’t enjoy making people angry. I’m expressing honest disagreement and criticism with the substance of your speech.

            I’m not trying to make you feel guilty about feeling bullied and oppressed in China, I’m trying to appeal to crtiical thinking skills and sense of proportion. You otherwise exhibit the same victim-complex people criticize some whiny racist Chinese nationalists for. Is that the kind of person you want to be like?

            Is every day in China for you literally an unending stream of hatred and xenophobia? Have you met not a single nice Chinese person? How about an indifferent one? Someone who didn’t even bother to interact with you as they passed you by on the street? Are you literally mobbed 10-deep by Chinese racists and nationalists clawing at your foreign eyes?

            I disagree, there are so many things that are within your control and if you think I’m blaming you for things beyond your control, you’re mistaken. It’s not your fault if some Chinese fucker decides to point and laugh at you. It is however your fault if you can’t put this in context and decide to rant about it with your own unfair generalizations and insults on a public forum populated by people who can’t change the fact that they too are “Chinese”. It’s your fault if you allow yourself to behave in ways similar to the people you resent, as the people who hurt you.

            A common comment in these Chinese littering stories by Chinese netizens is that people need to reflect on themselves and that change starts with oneself. So yes, progress in this world somehow DOES come down to each person and their attitude. The wildly exaggerated and unfair things you say here without a second thought perpetuates hate and animosity. Do you really not see that? Is your personal venting more important than doing your bit to improve society overall?

            You want to know how to understand social phenomena? One easy (but not foolproof) way is to first consider how you understand similar phenomena in your own home country, society, or history. Another way is to first remind yourself that they are human, you’re human, yet why are there such differences in behavior, belief, and experience? You have a brain and what I assume to be a Western education. Put it to use, man.

          • Probotector

            Whatever

          • Kai

            Are you aware of how hard it is to read so many of your comments, like this one, and not wonder if–or at least how much–you hate Chinese people?

            If not hate, then how about basic respect? You know, the basic respect to see Chinese people as a group of individuals who are not necessarily to be blamed, shamed, and condescended to for each others’ sins just as it isn’t your fault for the sins of your forefathers?

          • Probotector

            Look, I’ve tried to be reasonable with you. Go ahead and ban me then.

          • Kai

            How are you being reasonable when you insinuate that I want to ban you? Where, in all of this, have I threatened to ban you for your comments?

          • Repatriated

            Most ABC will jokingly call themselves banana and don’t consider it an insult.

          • Kai

            Dude, Americans consider hella people “foreign”. There’s a reason why race-relations and race-tensions are a constant social issue in America. As much as America prides itself on being a melting pot or a country of immigrants (and it DOES have a lot to be proud of), it is hardly a place where people are color and culture-blind.

          • Natasha Fatale

            That’s true and not true. There are many people of all color and races who have racial issues with each other as well as many people who truly do not see color.. it’s not really a either/or type thing.. Just depends on how you are raised and if your parents taught you those prejudices or not.

          • Kai

            Although I personally think it is impossible for people to truly never see color (unless they’re blind?), I understand what you’re saying and I agree. I didn’t intend to generalize Americans as all being one way or another. My intent was to disagree with the statement by @disqus_5xS38xIeTi:disqus that Americans don’t really consider anyone foreign. As a whole, American certainly do and they do consider many people “foreign”. There is a classification for immigrants and tourists, right?

            But yes, there are certainly people (of all colors and races) who have racial issues and those who have far less to no racial issues. I’m definitely not suggesting otherwise. I definitely agree it depends on how you were raised by your family as well as how you are socialized in your larger environment.

          • Natasha Fatale

            Children don’t see color until someone teaches them that.. I didn’t know what racism was until i was around 12 or so in middle school because I was raised in a community that all colors and ethnicities were friends and neighbors then we moved and i went to live in a place that was not like that and encountered racism for the first time.. I was confused as I didn’t understand why it was that way.. I wish we as a people could keep that innocence and acceptance we have as children..

          • Kai

            I’m not sure about that. Nevermind that in actual practice, children necessarily grow up in societies and are socialized, children like all humans are capable of recognizing differences. The human mind works by recognizing differences and similarities, organizing and processing information through such paradigms. Sooner or later, children will see “color” even without someone teaching it to them. I understand your point though, and agree that much is taught and socialized. Children are in many ways a lot more innocent and open-minded than those of us who have already grown up and been corrupted.

          • Kai

            Thank you for accepting my criticism and acknowledging my moderating efforts and fairness. It’s mature of you and I recognize it. I’d quibble that you “normally” DO write such crude things though, as evidenced by your comment history.

            As I’ve mentioend in previous comments, I live in Shanghai.

            I’m considered foreign or not foreign depending on context and convenience to those judging me. It’s the blessing and curse of everyone who is caught between two worlds.

            Therefore, you can’t know what it’s like to experience constant and relentless hatred and xenophobia that a so-called ‘foreigner’ receives in China.

            Isn’t that the same argument as “you don’t understand China because you’re not Chinese”?

            I highly doubt you or the vast majority of foreigners experience “constant and relentless” hatred and xenophobia in China. Those who actually do are very likely doing something VERY wrong. You most likely suffer from selective memory, overweighting certain experiences while taking for granted others. That’s neither rational nor fair of you. Also, don’t be too certain I haven’t experienced hatred and xenophobia and thus can never understand it.

            More importantly, while I understand it is human to lash back, lashing back nonetheless loses you the moral high ground. All you end up doing, despite all the put-downs of the Chinese and self-puffery, is make you look just as bad as the people you blame for your own expressions of hatred and xenophobia. What basis, then, do you have for thinking yourself more rational, enlightened, tolerant, better, whatever than them?

            There are so many foreigners in China who getting along just fine with the local Chinese. Sure, maybe they’re meeting better, nicer Chinese people or something. But it’s also possible that they carry themselves in a different way or have a different mindset that results in less animosity. I know foreigners across the full spectrum of frustration when it comes to their lives in China. That there is a spectrum suggests there is no black-and-white blame to be pinned on anyone here. Social interaction and coexistence has always required some give-and-take between those involved. Wantonly shitting on people, even online, doesn’t exactly cultivate healtheir attitudes, especially in yourself. You’re arguably contributing to and reinforcing mutual animosity.

            Look, I understand why people vent on cS and I understand why people see it as a “safe” place to do so. It’s still merely an explanation and not a justification for this kind of behavior. This is making excuses for unbecoming behavior, blaming one’s behavior on others, deflecting. If the prejudiced, bigoted rants or even casual racism of Chinese netizens is ultimately unjustified, so are yours. As @The Enlightened One likes to boast, this is Greek logic.

            Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We ultimately can’t control how other people behave but we can control how we ourselves behave. I understand people need to vent sometimes, but be mindful of your environment. We (most of us at least) do this naturally in real life, watching what we say given who is within earshot. People often forget it online because of anonymity and the reduced risk of substantive consequences.

            Finally, it’s partially our fault that the cS comments have bred this kind of atmosphere so we take some responsibility. That’s why we’re increasingly asking people to think before they carelessly rant here. If you want to, you can do so, but you’ll get pushback and pushback should be expected, because this is not meant to be a “safe” place for people to vent however they please without taking some responsibility for it. We are each others’ keepers.

            Thanks for listening.

          • 煜 李

            I’ve always believed that most Chinese people look up to foreigners, quite racist, but especially to white people from western countries. anyway, it seems that I’m totally wrong. PS: Chinese people are not considering each other as sisters or brothers. Actually, that’s the opposite of truth. there’s always big divergence among people from different provinces, like different countries, and between local people and waidiren. Discrimination is just so reasonable, and cannot be erased in china now.

          • Probotector

            Why would you think that anyone in China would ever look up to a foreigner?

          • 煜 李

            I’m a Chinese. Maybe it’s just my delusion. It doesn’t really matter anyway. From my experience with my friends, teachers and strangers, I thought white people are considered to be beautiful and represent respectable culture from the west, here in my living environment, mostly in China’s cities.

          • 煜 李

            I’m a Chinese. Maybe it’s just my delusion. It doesn’t really matter anyway. From my experience with my friends, teachers and strangers, I thought white people are considered to be beautiful and represent respectable culture from the west, here in my living environment, mostly in China’s cities.
            Unfortunately, from my experience, I’m just not able to imagine how a common Chinese would naturally hate white people. This is my limit as a Chinese, probably. And I also guess language barrier could lead to many problems. Many chinese don’t speak English, then most of them would tend to keep to themselves. Would you please tell me more about the hatred and mean Chinese people you’ve met?

          • Probotector

            Let’s break this down shall we?

            “From my experience with my friends, teachers and strangers, I thought white people are considered to be beautiful and represent respectable culture from the west,”

            No, Chinese think we’re ugly and frequently say so. Just because you carry an umbrella to keep the sun off you, doesn’t mean you like white people. Also, why do you mention white people anyway? Aren’t you aware that many western people are not white? Is it because Chinese vehemently associate race and nationality, and think you can’t be one without the other?

            Anyway, to Chinese people, our culture is imperialism, and most Chinese find it boring and reprehensible to learn about, since they believe their culture is superior. (Perhaps that’s understandable, however. After all, who would bow to a foreign culture?)

            Chinese typically only respect entertaining western culture, basketball, pop music, etc. You guys certainly have no respect for English and desecrate our national emblems and language constantly. Yes, I’m talking about the ridiculous and/or obscene English, or the deformed British or American flags plastered all over people’s clothes here. When you call Chinese people on it, they say “I don’t care”, because, why would a Chinese care abut anything foreign? Imagine if I wore clothes which said “傻屄” on them, and a Chinese flag that was blue instead of red and had moons instead of stars or something. What would you say?!

            “I’m just not able to imagine how a common Chinese would naturally hate white people.”

            Well, you see, it’s because we’re different, and Chinese try their best to be all the same. Therefore, what is different is a threat to them. Then of course, there’s the whole fear of taking their women, taking over the country again, poisoning Chinese minds with our western propaganda, that sort of thing. Of course, I’m only speculating at their motivations, although, I think many Chinese are pissed that white guys have sex with Chinese women sometimes, that’s definitely true.

            “most of them would tend to keep to themselves.”

            That’s simply wrong, Chinese give foreigners shit all the time. I can’t walk outside without people harassing me constantly. Moreover, Chinese often behave loud and brash.

            So what examples do you want, well let’s see…

            Everyone knows the “hello” followed by laughter bullshit. So tell me, why do Chinese d that, and why does ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE do it? Why is it funny to point out a foreigner and laugh at them? This seems like bullying to me, bullying from insecure people who see us as a threat. A shame, because I’m no threat to you.

            Why do you invade our privacy and take pictures of us without our permission?

            Why do you always assume we don’t understand Chinese, as if we’re too stupid or something?

            Why do you all and your friends ask dumb questions like “why is your nose so big” or “why are you laowai so fat” and then all laugh at us?

            Why do you all galvanise into a nationalist mob and gang up on us when we have a personal dispute with another Chinese person?

            Why do children as young as 2 years old point out a laowai to their parents unless they’ve been instructed to?

            Why do you call us laowai at all? Why can’t you see us as equal people?

            Why do Chinese people steal western intellectual property and counterfeit our brands and steal state secrets?

            The list goes on, but the point is, how does any of what I’ve mentioned seem like friendly behaviour? Now, I know this kind of thing exists in other Asian countries, but you asked me about my experiences in China, so that’s irrelevant.

            I don’t know how you feel about what I’ve mentioned. You’ll probably tell me something like “you think too much”.

            The simple truth however is China has a long history of conflict and mistrust with countries from “the West” and this is passed on through generations. Many people are also ignorant in China and lack an education in decency and morals, but then whose fault is that? It certainly isn’t mine.

            Western societies have worked hard to reinvent themselves as tolerant and open-minded to other cultures. Chinese people by and large only want a foreigner to kiss their ass, entertain them, spend all their money, and then leave quickly. To a typical Chinese person, a foreigner only exists to be used, and if we’re not useful then we are bullied into leaving the country. Why does this have to be the case? Why can’t we just get along?

          • 煜 李

            See?That’s the problem! That’s why I only said white people. Common Chinese people are super discriminitive which is so not cool! they look up to White people and beautiful brown people, but not that into black, cause only White people represent the admirable western culture in modern times.
            I’ve no idea what you have been through. I’m so sorry for all the suffers you had with those nasty Chinese people in your view. But me and my friends do admire western culture, not just the entertaining part, but economics, science, political, the great politics like Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan…and all the great minds. But me and my friends don’t represent all the Chinese people. and I’m not here trying to be friendly or unfriendly, or defending anyone. I just wanted to tell you what I think I know, so we can communicate. But you seems quite angry. I’m sorry, but I felt that way.
            as for your other accusations, I don’t quite understand the logic. So, that’s it.

          • Probotector

            It seems you’re trying to make an effort and I applaud that.

          • 煜 李

            Can I learn something about you? about your race and where you stayed or traveled in China and encountered those terrible experiences that left you such disgusting impression of Chinese people? I hope my questions don’t seem offensive to you. If they did, please just say it, and you know I didn’t mean it.

          • Probotector

            White British. I have been in Henan since 2005.

          • 煜 李

            Thanks。哦。原来是支那最深处“大荷兰”啊。

          • Probotector

            What does that mean?

          • 煜 李

            well, it’s just silly chinese discrimination against each other. you’ve lived a long time here. you might know. Many chinese despise some particular provinces, including Henan Province, Hunan Province… because so many stupid things happened there, especially Henan, such as the forced abortion issue, two old men beat another old man who hates Mao, and people always say Henan people are mostly swindlers, etc.. Maybe there is some reason for the discrimination. But I don’t quite undertand how it came up at the very beginning. i guess it’s just silly prejudice anyway. I’ve never been to Henan. So I don’t really know the people there at all.
            But Henan is also known as the birthplace of Chinese people in Chinese text book, which is soooooo wrong. I just said “wow, you are in the core of China!”

          • Probotector

            Okay. I don’t think people from Henan are any different from Chinese elsewhere when it comes to opinions about foreigners. From my perspective, Chinese attitudes seem pretty universal, but I could be wrong about that when it comes to other issues.

          • 煜 李

            yeah, understood. but i just feel a little sorry for myself why I admire someone so much who think I should hate them. well, let’s just be ourselves.

          • Probotector

            I don’t follow. Who do you admire that thinks you should hate them?

          • 煜 李

            Not a specific person. I’ve always felt foreign people, especially white people are so easy to get along with. Many foreign students from US, Netherlands, Belgium, Japan… came to our school. and I feel we can understand and make friends with each other so easily. Actually, this is the first time I learned from your comments and many other comments here on this website, that it could be so hard, so difficult for Chinese and foreigners to get along.To be honest, I feel a little shocked. I guess i still need a while to figure it out.

          • Probotector

            You seem like a girl. Where are you in China? Why do you have interest in foreign things? It’s quite unusual.

          • 煜 李

            I’m a college student. Most of us have interest in foreign things. it’s not special at all. Maybe we are just at the age that eager to understand the world.

          • Thoughtless Celestial

            You are a good person, do not worry about these comments so much. Not sure how it is in 中国, but in 西方 most internet comments are retarded/stupid, especially on places like ChinaSmack, YouTube etc.

          • 煜 李

            Oh.Thank you. I will try hard to learn more.

          • Thoughtless Celestial

            Good. Most of us are friendly and welcoming I think.

          • 煜 李

            Yeah. Thank you for reminding me. I’ve always believed so.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            You are nice indeed…but honestly, i avoid Chinese people like you.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            I believe China Smack is Chinese and Youtube, well it’s great but that’s not not the place you’ll look for intellectual comments. And your comment about “most internet comments in 西方 being retarded”..well you sound so wise and knowledgeable.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            I agree with some of your observations, and some other (i think) are not as bad as you think..
            Let’s all go have a drink eh? :p

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            You thought white people are “beautiful and represent respectable culture from the West” i guess that is one of the problems….i can’t represent something which is NOT ME (expect for the beautiful part of course :D) What i mean is, a whole lot of Chinese people i met talk to me in a very nice but feckin annoying way like i am a representative of a country somewhat close (from my perspective)to mass culture America. I’m not American, and i sure Americans would also be offended to hear that the only thing Chinese think about them is “hamburger, hollywood, lady gaga”. I’ve never been to America nor can i say that i know much about it but i can still see that America has a very impressive recent history in many aspect such as culture surprisingly
            And no, in my 这里 Beyonce is not feckin 火! Frustrating…

          • 煜 李

            Thank you very much for telling me your thoughts. But, in the same way, I’m still not some Chinese you’ve actually met and you think you know, neither.

            In my previous point, I’ve tried to explain, when we don’t meet each other in person, we all have some kind of discrimination sorted from our former knowledge or previous experience with the particular people, just as your opinion for me now, which is an obviously simplified and distorted interpretation of me as a specific person, I must say. But that’s OK. Most of us do that, because we are not wise enough, nor informed enough. The world is too complicated that we just can’t be.
            .
            As for myself, I’ve said that I tend to especially admire white people from european countries, US, Canada, Australia, and Japanese people, Korean people, Taiwanese people, etc.,… (This is my discrmination), BUT only BEFORE I actually met one specific person from them. Because under such circumstance when I must communicate and work with a particular person, the discrimination thing doesn’t work anymore, as person-to-person communication cost a lot of time and spirit, while discrimination is only a solution for us to judge people in a second before we actually meet the real one. When we must start to learn a particular person in real work and life, the previous judge becomes meaningless and fades away.

            In short words, I choose to admire smart and nice people no matter he/she is white/black/brown/yellow…. and I respect, but not that into stupid people no matter he/she is white/black/brown/yellow… But why did I bother to claim that I especially admire the white? It’s just because that so many researches, books and such long history has proved me that white people has the maximum ratio of smart and nice people to their race, which means I have the largest chance to meet the person in white race that I will choose to admire in the future, after I get to know them. But, now, it seems the smart people ratio has been overrated by me and I must learn more about the white Internet world from now on.

          • Kai

            People look up and down at other people based on convenience and context. For the vast majority of people, it’s not either or. They’re not mutually exclusive. Same with whether or not you see each other as brothers and sisters. People ally and associate or exclude and disassociate likewise. Discrimination is rife in China and in a way, yes, it cannot be erased, that’s true, but I’m not sure what you mean by “discrimination is just so reasonable”. What do you mean by “reasonable”?

          • 煜 李

            I understand your point. Sorry. It’s my fault that I didn’t make the word “reasonable” here seem more reasonable. But it’s quite a ruthless thing to explain.I hope you understand why the Chinese society is in such a mess and people have so many conflicts between each other, then they just became discriminative against each other. So, by “reasonable”, I meant that Chinese people is not just one kind of people. they are more like different peoples from different countries representing different interests, but forced by one central government to pretend that they are the same people, while the truth is the opposite and harsh. So I think it’s “reasonable” that the discrimination problem is so common in China now. Actually, it was always there through the 2000 year-history.

            No one says that discrimination is a good thing. it’s just not that easy to stop it in such a huge country with so many different places and different peoples. But in my point of view, the discrimination is reasonable and doing a good job to tear China apart more quickly. Then we’ll see more free countries sooner in the future, maybe.

          • Kai

            I try my best to understand why Chinese society is the way it is. To me, the discrimination in China towards foreigners or towards each other is both a result of conflicts and the cause for conflicts. I don’t think anyone is saying it is easy to stop, just that it’d be a good thing if people work towards stopping it or at least reducing it.

          • 煜 李

            why there are so many conflicts? because too many different people are forced to live in one huge empire and forced to make stupid sacrifice for people they don’t know. And can’t you see? the only way to solve the problem is china disintegration to make everything back on the right track that people can really fight for their hometowns. a forced huge country is no longer suitable, because no one could ever be able to recognize it with real emotions. It’s TOO HUGE, TOO DIVERSIFIED. this is reality and this is cruel.No one can stop real discrimination just by some noble will.

          • Kai

            I’m not so pessimistic about China disintegrating. What kind of discrimination are you referring to that you think will result in China splitting up? Are you talking about some Chinese stereotyping Henan people or Shanghainese people or Northeasterners? Or are you talking about discrimination about other things?

          • 煜 李

            those discrimination you mentioned is silly prejudice and doesn’t affect anything. I was talking about the terrible disadvantage of a huge empire which forced so many different peoples to live in one country, that caused a serious obliteration of conflicting interests of different people from different places. Like Shanxi could have been very rich for selling its coal mine if it was an independent country. But the people there are now suffering terrible air pollution in poverty.
            This is the discrimination caused by one-party dictatorship, that i was talking about. But such a huge country with different peoples carrying different, even conflicting interests can only lead to one-party dictatorship.

          • Kai

            Ah okay, I understand what you mean better now. Historically speaking, though, China has remained pretty unified. There’s arguments to be made for Xinjiang and Tibet, for example, but Shanxi? Has Shanxi every really agitated for independence as a separate identity?

            The United States is a pretty large country with a lot of different peoples with different/conflicting interests, yet it manages to survive intact without a one-party dictatorship. Why can’t China survive intact?

          • 煜 李

            Yes, we are trying to build the idea to ask for indepence for Manchuria, for Sichuan, for Yunnan, for northern China, for southern China…
            as for Tibet, Southern Mongolia, Xinjiang…they should be independent right now, without any questions. But the terrible political situation is killing us all.

            US is different. The White culture is predominant from the very beginning. Immigrants came for its existed culture and society. And different peoples are living in a quite mixed way. But China is a Forced one. all the peoples live in their own ancestors’ land, but forced to form a fake united nation, which is against the truth that we are absolutely different.

          • Kai

            Who is we? I’m not aware of any serious or statistically significant movement amongst Chinese nationals for an independent Manchuria, Sichuan, Yunnan, etc. The closest I can think of outside of Tibet and Xinjiang is Shanghai (and Hong Kong)!

            In the ways you described, I’m not sure how different the US is. Sure, white culture was predominant from the beginning but Han Chinese culture was predominant in the beginning for China as well. What’s the significance here? Sure, a lot of the early American colonialists were fleeing persecution and opporession of their own beliefs and lifestyles and while they did enshrine some more tolerance in the American constitution, it wasn’t particularly tolerant in real life for much of its history. People lived in segregation, there were racially and culturally segregated ghettos and neighborhoods. Still are. Maybe I’m not understanding what you’re trying to say? If it helps, you can use Chinese to explain your central point and arguments.

            When do you think China was forced into becoming a “fake” united nation? Aren’t most countries in the world the product of forced consolidation of often different people and tribes? What types of people in China are “absolutely” different from each other? Especially after so many years of cross-pollination, interbreeding, and shared culture and larger identity?

            I too would like to see more change in Chinese politics but I think China has realized there are challenging powers from outside. I agree that governments will socialize people to be united, whether it’s called patriotism or nationalism, but it’s arguably true everywhere. So is the use of violence to stop dissent that the government finds unacceptable. Don’t get me wrong, I think China uses violence against dissent too much and I’d like to see that change, but I’m just not understanding your main argument for breaking up China so that its provinces are independent countries. The people who have historically formed and governed China have been people from various places throughout China. The CCP for example is composed of people who come from different provinces of China. It’s not like one ancestral tribe is subjugating all other tribes. The tribes have arguably become one, and that’s the current China.

          • Guest

            those discrimination you mentioned is silly prejudice and doesn’t affect anything. I was talking about the terrible disadvantage of a huge empire which forced so many different peoples to live in one country, that caused a serious obliteration of conflicting interests of different people from different places. Like Shanxi could have been very rich for selling its coal mine if it was an independent country. But the people there are now suffering terrible air pollution in poverty.
            This is the discrimination caused by one-party dictatorship, that i was talking about. But such a huge country with different peoples carriying different, even conflicting interests can only lead to one-party dictatorship.

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      You reaction is exactly why it’s difficult to be friends with people like you and share various comments and observations (which tends to happen in friendship)…and your observation about “Chinese people this and Western people that” makes it even more impossible because not only are you trying to deflect an issue concerning China (which is the topic being discussed) towards the rest of the world but you are also expressing the full extent of your narrow-mindedness by opposing two massive blocks and generalizing the West as if it were one country, where everybody is the same.(and we all eat hamburgers etc.)
      About your comment concerning the “westerners” turning a blind eye…I was in Scotland 2 months ago with my parents and we were walking in the countryside 1 hour away from the largest city in Scotland, Glasgow. We walked pass one little piece of plastic and my parents mentioned something like “it’s a disgrace” (which means it’s bad to do that) One little bit of plastic in miles, and pretty much the only piece of litter i saw in 3 weeks of going out everyday in the country side
      Let me give you some advice (if i may) there will always be comparisons between countries, cultures, people etc. If you can’t accept any kind of comment and always think people are saying things specifically to embarrass or humiliate you then you will always react in an aggressive and unfriendly way (even though you might be a very nice person) in consequence people won’t be interested in talking to you because THEY CAN’T talk to you.

  • Washington Bullets

    起来!是时候拿起垃圾!

  • KAMIKAZIPILOT

    I’d really be more critical of everyday littering than littering during a festival like this. Look at Times Square during New Years, it’s kind of acceptable to litter during these big mass celebrations because people know there are workers to clean up the mess. ON a positive note, it’s nice to see a lot of netizens criticizing their fellow Chinese people behavior, because that shows they disagree with this behavior. If you don’t care, nothing will change. At least some people care.

  • maybeabanana

    I bet most of the commentators are part of the problem.

  • That “fog” we see in the picture is nothing but pure CO2. So don’t blame the wai di ren on this one, Beijingers are just a little cleaner but not clean enough to compare.

    China is clean mostly behind closed doors.

    (edit) in fact it is funny how they blame each other over the shit most of them do, most of the time unconscious of what it means. Same in the west, without so many people.

  • garbo

    I saw this yesterday: a little girl was outside my building. Her family lives there so instead of taking the kid upstairs they let her do her business outside. It was the grandparents with her too. Talk about laziness, they were right outside the building! I’ve seen this outside very expensive buildings too in Beijing. For god sake, stop being s lazy!

  • Angela Rose Macintosh

    It’s bizarre for me how I HEAR people adamantly defending and praising China all over the place. Then I SEE complete disrespect (from my point of view) for the country all over the place.

    It’s certainly not what I was expecting to hear or see in China.

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      the thing is…if you criticize China..for example you say: ” there’s so much crap on the ground, i wish something could be done about it” you’ll have the following response: “well it’s not better in your country, why you come to China? You think you’re so great huh? You foreigners think you’re so superior to Chinese and you look down on us, you’re white trash that couldn’t make it in your own country so you came to China to do nothing and play all the time and shag Chinese girls (head starts smoking) You get paid so much and you have some much holidays and If you don’ t China GET OUT OF TCHAI-NA!!!”
      差不多

      • Probotector

        You tell it like it is.

      • Angie Mac

        But I don’t look down on Chinese people, I look down on all the rubbish at my feet. :)

        Actually, just had a trip to Guilin and have to say it was marvelous and clean!

        • Peter Wilton Cushing

          Hmmm, guilin, nice parks, and yangshuo is near enough if you get tired of tourist hordes and traffic fumes. Yes, not a bad city at all.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            I hated Yangshuo…i love the countryside around it but the actual village is just one more carnival attraction

          • Peter Wilton Cushing

            ME too, the countryside is the big draw for meeting the locals, caves and so on. I don’t like the over touristed hawk and spit and shout into mobile phone places.

          • Cauffiel

            Don’t forget entire groups of people all stopping and pointing their cameras directly at you, and talking about you in Chinese thinking you can’t understand, then yelling “hallo!!! hahahahahah!!!!!!!!!” and then running away.

            Buncha goddamn children.

          • Probotector

            Chinese love to hate the foreigner; makes ’em fell good about themselves.

        • Gordon Gogodancer

          That’s good, it’s improving

        • al

          IF Guilin has trash all over the street then it’s all over for China’s travel industry..

      • Middle_Kingdum

        Ha ha!

    • Cauffiel

      Exactly right. In China, there is more often than not a great rift between what people do and what people say they do. I think in their minds, doing something and saying something are mutually exclusive acts.

  • Boris

    ‘Looking at the first photo, are you reminded of anything in particular?’ Yes -Close Encounters. It’s not all that messy is it? Pretty tame for China. Not much of a story. Can we have more stories about black people, or about homosexuals? Everyone likes those stories. How about a black homosexual? That way everyone’s a winner!

  • James in China

    All of you people saying ” whats the big deal? People litter in every country” most of you apparently have never come to China. This place is fucking filthy like you have no idea. I have lived in Canada, UK, Singapore, even in less wealthy countries like malaysia and thailand and the USA. However, never in my life have I EVER seen filth like this. They will stand next to a garage bin and throw their trash on the ground. Parents instruct their kids to litter. They hawk and spit on the floor in retaurants. They piss and shit on sidewalks in broad daylight. Their own personal hygiene is disgusting. Get on a chinese subway for a couple of days and you will want to vomit. Their teeth and breath are rank to the point its indescribable.
    This issue is to a degree true in other countries, but in my experience it is only really in economically depressed areas and honestly in areas inhabited by immigrants, or anyone with no respect for where they live.
    Before you defend these filthy animals, come visit this place for a couple of weeks.
    Stupid crying bleeding heart brain dead assholes who never leave their own hometown and think they understand other countries.

    • Chom

      When my sister visited she thought China was very clean compared to Thailand, even in the over crowded places like Dongmen she said the streets were much cleaner than other Asian countries she’d visited.

      • twelve ways

        Your sister has sight/mental problems. Thailand is amazingly clean for the most part, you hardly even see cigarette butts on the floor in tourist places.

  • MrC

    Woman on the back of my motorbike yesterday,threw a empty milk tea bottle on to the pavement while sitting at the traffic lights. I made her get off and go pick it up, that in front of hundreds of shoppers scratching their heads.

    • Probotector

      You run a motorcycle taxi?

      • MrC

        no, she was just a ride i was taking home…

        • Probotector

          lol ok. I was confused for a moment there. I commend your actions, but normally I don’t bother calling them on their bs because it becomes more hassle than it’s worth.

  • 无名者

    Interesting, how only one person, Boris, mentioned that sly, Tiananmen-related “Anyone reminded of anything in particular” remark, and seemingly didn’t notice it’s relevance. Nice to see that it’s only the majority that have forgotten such an event. The definition of ironic irony, the very place where the CCP should have died, the one place where they are enshrined within the popular-collective-Nationalistic imagination.

  • dumbledore

    There’s enough to criticise China for, but this?? This shit happens EVERYWHERE in the world on such occasions. Did you guys forget the pictures from the last St. Patrick’s Day? The fxxxxx trash was piled up in the streets. Great if the Chinese want to do something about this, but this is not like taking a dump in the subway or smoking in hospitals. Were all pretty bad at littering, although granted, we take a bit more serious in the West.

    • Probotector

      Then you are welcome to tell Fauna to take the story down off of CS.

  • B*tches, Leave

    “somebody else will clean it up” trolololol

  • Atlas

    A bit off topic, but litter related I guess. Happened to me today.

    I was at McD’s for my weekly binge and bought a lot of food, as usual. So far so good. I notice, as usual, that most tables have trash and leftovers on them because only the poor and idiots pick up after themselves.

    What makes this a story is that a beggar was sitting at a table eating leftovers from the surrounding tables – AND – a bunch of Chinese teenagers/young “adults” were throwing bits of fries at him , treating him like a fucking animal in a zoo. I heard one of them telling him that if he did tricks for them they would give him more food and so on.

    I wanted to go up to them and whoop their sissy-lala asses but I decided against it and told the man to come to my table instead. I gave him my whole meal to eat, ordered more and we had lunch together. Poor guy lost everything some years ago and can’t work because he is too old and his health is poor. My Chinese isn’t too good, still.

    Yes, the kids were pointing fingers, but then I called them little sisters and which one was the other’s boyfriend in their relationship and they stopped gawking.

  • Carlito

    Good job guys, keep the good work. Clean up the mess.

  • Peter Wilton Cushing

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10342372/Chinas-number-one-beach-swamped-by-rising-tide-of-pollution.html

    Hey, keep on littering people, it all comes down to money, sigh:

    But he added that he, at least, was benefiting from the continuing
    pollution: he makes up to £215 a month hauling bulging nets of litter from
    beach and selling it for recycling.

    “It is good for the environment, good for my income and good for my health,”
    he beamed.

    Good for your pocket, but good for the environment no, teach your compatriots not to litter you old fool!

    • Probotector

      I loved the fact that people were taking their wedding pics there.

      • Peter Wilton Cushing

        Hahaha,yeah I noticed. It’s the same at xiamen beach with the oil slicks in the sea from the tankers.

  • Carlito

    It’s not really a big problem, as long as they are not pissing and shitting so openly. This is what happens with uneducated individuals. As the urbanization process is in progress it’s sure to happen.

  • Peye

    Close the square and do not let anyone leave the area until all the garbage is picked up and deposited into trash bins. After flag raising all swear publicly that they will not leave any litter behind.

  • Kilkenny

    Singapore population is 90% Chinese, but it is probably the cleanest city in the world.

    It’s not about hope the next generation would be better. What is needed to be done is to implement the laws as strict as Singapore, so the Chinese will have the same reflexes as Pavlov’s dogs – “littering is very painful to my purse”.

    • Warlock

      Good laws leftover from british rule + strict asian authoritianism+ small space=well ordered and clean. Just look at HK, even without those strict punishments, if they were serious and floggings were introduced the place would be spotless, it already is pretty spotless imho.

      • Warlock

        authoritarianism, rather, my mistake

      • Kilkenny

        Please correct me if I am mistaking, but I think that Honkong has designated smoking spots with a smoking ban everywhere else (which contributes to cleanliness) and the fines for littering there are kinda high too. Just checked on the web, it is 1500 HKD fine for spitting or littering. God, I wish PRC had one of those.

        • linette lee

          Most of the indoor public areas like shopping malls, restaurants, stores ban smoking with no smoking signs. Outdoor beaches and parks also ban smoking. There is a heavy fine if caught. You can’t just smoke anywhere in the public in Hong kong. They do have many designated areas for smokers in the public. Make sure you don’t throw cigarette butt on the ground. Big fine if caught.

        • linette lee
        • Warlock

          Correct. But on the metro it seemed noone really cared about the drinking, even a hong kong woman admitted that to me. I wasn’t prepared to risk the fine however.

  • aimeili

    Yesterday in Beijing a lady was throwing an empty bottle to the floor I asked “Wei shenme?” -and pointed to the bin that was 5 steps away, she responded that I should do that in my own country that she is chinese and in China she does what she wants. WTF!

  • 5,000 years of uncivilization

    How can someone love their country and pollute it at the same time? This is the question i ask people when i catch them littering? They always give me an expression as if blew their tiny minds. I only hope i was able to teach them something about taking some pride and responsibility or just being civilized.

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