Beijing Subway Calls Passengers ‘Locusts’, Capital Too Tolerant

Beijing Subway calls its passengers "locusts" for garbage left on train.

The official microblog of the Beijing Subway drew public outrage recently when it called passengers “locusts” for the trash left behind on its trains.

From NetEase :

Beijing Subway: A Mess After the “Locusts”; The Capital Is Being Too Tolerant

@北京地铁 [Beijing Subway]: #Civilization with You Hand in Hand# Open Discussion on Subway Civility talks】 The Line 10 subway after the “locusts”, a mess… The capital city of Beijing’s tolerance/leniency is worth praise, but sometimes being too tolerant/lenient also is the biggest denunciation. To those whose behaviors maliciously destroy the [environment of the] capital city of Beijing, we only want to say “you are not welcome here!”

Comments from Chinese netizens:

脱线的胖子: Those who serve the public have no right to choose who they serve.

张修茂:If “locusts” is insinuating wai di ren, then that’s wrong. Uncivilized behaviors should be criticized [regardless of by whom].

带上柳岩去日本: Are there garbage bins in the train carriages?

Related News: A Minority in Hong Kong Vilifies Mainland Students Studying in Hong Kong as “Locusts”

On October 8th, a Yunnan top scorer of the gaokao and HKU graduate unfortunately died in Hong Kong because of car accident, and a minority of Hong Kongers seized the incident to advance their views, even smearing mainland students studying in Hong Kong as “locusts” and smearing their parents as the “Yellow Race” [“locusts” race].

Uncivilized Beijing subway passengers are called “Locusts”

Comments from NetEase:

没有网名真可怕 [网易广东省深圳市网友]:

“Locust”, this characterization is really good. If it weren’t for us locusts, how could there be you moths?

正义鹰派 [网易香港网友]:

Saying those with poor characters are locusts is not overstating things! Please respect public order!

网易河南省网友 [110110110]:

No trash cans, no toilets!

网易海南省海口市网友 [ya2ya3]: (responding to above)

[If there is] no trash can, would it kill you to hold onto your trash for a while?

网易浙江省台州市网友 [sja347749]: (responding to above)

Have you never purchased train service? What if you have to hold onto [the trash] for many stations/stops? From one end to the other end? Could you do it? Looking at this situation, it’s not the first time or the first day that this has happened, so how come it has gone on this long without being resolved? Would it kill people to install a trash can [in the subway]? Or is the subway company going to go bankrupt?

网易广东省肇庆市网友 [宇宙是我创造的思密达]: (responding to above)

What I am able to do is not litter, or at least I myself am able to do it…

网易江苏省无锡市网友 ip:49.66.*.*: (responding to above)

Installing a trash can… With the current characters of our nationals, in less than one day it would become someone’s home kitchen trash can. Also, the third floor [sja347749], do you know the public transportation system is a welfare good/public service, that it’s subsidized by public funds, and you think you’re JB purchasing service? How much did you spend?

网易上海市浦东新区网友 [雪舞飘凌]:

Beijing truly is disgusting. When it’s in need, the entire nation’s citizens are their brothers and its glory is the glory of the entire nation; When it’s not in need, brothers become locusts. –Beijing Spirit

网易广西南宁市网友(219.159.*.*):

The Hong Kong MTR have been in operation for decades, with a large amount of capacity everyday, and the train cars have never seen a garbage bin in them but it remains clean. What Hong Kong people can do mainlanders should be able to do as well. If we increase efforts, increase punishments, establish a good set of rules/norm of behavior, punish people as much as they should be punished, and without any ambiguity, I won’t believe this can’t be managed.

网易北京市朝阳区网友 [laolang2004]: (responding to above)

Beijing [subway] passengers on Line 10 tells everyone the truth: The garbage on Line 10 in fact is not littered by passengers, but advertising leaflets like those from Shandong real estate developers, about sea-view homes for just 180,000 RMB and so on. Hope the relevant departments will severely punish the origin of this, those Shandong real estate developers!

网易广西南宁市网友 ip:222.216.*.*: (responding to above)

This is correct. Establish the rules whoever breaks [the rules] is who should be punished, and severely!

网易山东省济南市手机网友 ip:119.163.*.*:

It’s not something that can be changed in a short time.

打倒转基因 [网易广东省佛山市网友]:

Chinese people indeed are locusts……..including myself.

心若海棠 [网易天津市手机网友]:

Not even a blade of grass grows on the place where locusts pass by.

网易天津市网友 ip:117.11.*.*:

Locusts is a label, originating from how foreigners regard Chinese people.

网易北京市网友 ip:124.126.*.*:

Looking at the picture, the garbage is mainly advertising leaflets. To be honest, the advertising leaflets that passengers bring with them onto the subway are the minority while the majority are those people who distribute advertising leaflets everywhere in the train cars. Are the passengers supposed to help the subway tidy them up?

老阿愚 [网易湖北省武汉市网友]:

The characters of the nation’s people indeed needs to be raised, this point is unquestionable. We also need to be clear-headed, with each and every person cultivating good habits to influence everyone around us!

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  • Guang Xiang

    Awww, poor litterbugs feeling a little indignant for being called locusts. Like adding a trashcan will suddenly cure bad habits.

    At least there’s some Chinese netizens that know better so there’s hope.

  • Germandude

    Pro-tip: Have your breakfast at home or at the restaurant. Rubbish bins are close-by, you don’t disturb others with the smell of your food, squelching and throwing rubbish around. Who would’ve thought the solution is so easiy, huh?

    Anyways: all in all, Shanghai’s and Beijing’s subways are very convenient and still pretty clean.

    • DearDairy

      Beijing’s subways were designed by a retarded monkey with a pencil. Have you tried the line 10 x line 1 interchange? HELL on earth.

      I’ve been in the subway like 2 times this year. I taxi or walk or even BUS IT everywhere so I don’t have to deal with disgusting, crowded, smelly, rude and just plain unpleasant experience that is the Chinese subway.

      • Kai

        Is it worse than the old People’s Square interchange in Shanghai (if you’re familiar with it)?

        • DearDairy

          I only taxi when I’m in Shanghai and I’m only in SH for biz, so no not really.

          The transfers in Beijing are a nightmare. 15 walks!

          But then someone told me that they were designed that way to manage the traffic.

          • Kai

            What does “15 walks” mean? 15 minute walks?

            If so, I brought up the People Square interchange in Shanghai because it was also a good example of a pretty crazy interchange requiring a lot of walking to change lines. They improved it when they added a third line to that hub but there are a few other long-distance interchanges in Shanghai now with the increasing number of lines.

          • the ace of books

            Whoever the someone was, they’re correct. When you’re next on a subway, in a line, in traffic, or anything, watch how people are directed. A whole lot of China’s seeming inconsistencies and maddening bottlenecks are a form of crowd control. They may not be the best or most efficient way of doing something, but they’re trying for efficacy in channeling large groups in a partially-orderly fashion.

            (And before you say “there’s no order to it anyway!” – do look at the setups, and also at people’s behavior – if there’s this much anarchy in a simple train transfer already, wouldn’t it be worse if there were no barriers/channels?)

    • ex-expat

      I agree that the Beijing subway is relatively clean, but I believe much of it is due to the fact that that many of the lines are relatively new. They are also cheap, which is great. But convenient is, at the very least, debatable. Between hordes of people pushing their way onto the train at once, ridiculously long transfer stations, and the lack of express lines, I have to disagree.

      • Germandude

        Well I agree it’s annoying to take the subway during rush-hours. But other than that, the metros are the best way of gettig from A to B on time. While you can plan the time it takes to get somewhere while using the subway, taking a cab for a longer drive makes your ETA unpredictable. Could take you 1 hour, could take you 2.

        I agree with you that because the lines are new, they still look so clean. Also, they get regularly cleaned by the maintenance squad.

        • ex-expat

          Yeah I totally agree that for all of it’s downsides, it’s by far the best way of travelling in the city. I remember once it took me four hours in a car to get from one side of Beijing to the other.

  • mr.wiener

    My 2 cents:
    Instead of everyone pointing the finger and saying other people dropped the litter, howabout everyone picking up a little litter?
    You’ll be warm the rest of the day with that smug inner glow of self-righteous satisfaction..I can heartily recommend it.

    • Guang Xiang

      I once picked up the trash of some young guy in Taiwan and this old man started praising me like I’m some angel from heaven. Kind of wish that didn’t happen.

      • Riddler

        Surprising reaction. Usually they think you are crazy or a slave.

      • Riddler

        ‘..Kind of wish that didn’t happen….’

        People dropping trash or your being praised as an angel? :-)

        • Guang Xiang

          lol, being praised in front of so many people in the subway

          • Riddler

            Graceful Sir:-)

          • don mario

            it can easily happen on the subway too if you have to give your seat up to elderly, can create a kind of awkward situation so i just use the first and last carriages as to avoid old people.

      • Kai

        Heh, I think that’s good and more people should do it. Granted, it’s a bit embarrassing to have everyone suddenly turn their eyes on you, but there needs more positive reinforcement for civic duty.

      • don mario

        lead by example!

    • Riddler

      Like most normal people from most normal places, after going through a door, I check if anyone is behind me and hold the door open if there is, that person repeats the process by holding the door and i move on. Get the picture? Perfectly normal.

      I have a colleague in Shanghai. She’s from Chinese/Indonesia, a graceful lady. She saw me hold the door a few times and just stared at me implacably. One day, she took me aside and respectfully told me this:

      “I know it’s normal for us to do hold doors for people but, in mainland china, not only do they not say ‘thank you’ they look down on you in an imperial manner as though you ought to hold the door open due to their perceived superiority.” Then she snapped at me and told me to wake the fuck up.

      Sorry Mr. Wiener, picking up other people’s shit? I’m from Eton, UK. No one litters. Not only is it a criminal offence but also an affront to our dignity.

      China needs to criminalise littering. That is the ONLY way people will pay attention. No amounts of advertising on how nasty it is will make these people change. Penalise them, fine them 1,000 RMB for littering. 5 Years later, when it has stopped, they can start a discussion about why it was criminalised in the first place.

      • Kai

        I regularly hold doors for people and I’ve experienced people walking on through without even glancing at me but I’ve experienced people thanking me much more, with the ratio increasing each year.

        It’s unfortunate that your Chinese/Indonesian colleague has that sort of attitude. It’s understandable to be jaded after bad experiences but like you said about Eton, people should do something or avoid doing something because it reflects on their dignity. I’m not going to refuse to conveniently hold the door open for people just because some people don’t have that custom of common courtesy. So I hope you didn’t listen to her.

        I agree that China needs to penalize littering and actually follow through on it with enforcement. However, I don’t think advertising doesn’t help. Fear only gets you so far, you have to socialize into people a sense of intrinsic value and “good” for any behavior you wish them to adopt as a norm. Education needs positive and negative reinforcements.

        • DearDairy

          I open the door for colleagues and friends. Everyone else I ignore. You’re Mr. Optimist, I’m just trying to get through my day without getting upset because locals don’t have the same standards for public behaviour as me.

          As soon as I cross out of China, I instantly revert back to the way I was raised: manners.

          “when in rome”is my policy. I do it because I just hate being disappointed and frustrated. The good does not outweigh or make up the bad for me.

          It’s not my job or I have no desire to better the masses. I’m here for my own selfish reasons, and that’s that.

          • Kai

            I think it’s good that you don’t get upset because the locals don’t have the same standards of civic behavior. I’m the same way. I’m not going out of my way to hold doors for people but I don’t even think about whether or not the locals appreciate it or not when I do so. I’m not sure if this means I’m “Mr. Optimist”, I think it’s just a manner I haven’t lost because of some bad experiences or lack of reciprocity.

            I don’t think it is anyone’s “job” to better the masses. I was merely agreeing with @disqus_DXLnFboeHi:disqus that our behavior reflects upon ourselves.

          • Stefan Xu

            Look I’m Chinese and so is my girlfriend. We are both very civilized people and have good manners, I would say we are at least as civilized as or even more so than western people. For example we don’t spit our chewing gum in street. We first spit it on a piece of paper and then throw it inside a trash bin. Just look on the streets in western cities, bunch of old chewing gum marks everywhere.

            When we have children in the future I would NEVER let my children shit on the streets!

            We always wait for the green light. We never randomly jaywalk.
            I always say thank you and bow every time. Always let the door open for the person behind me. I don’t talk loudly in public. I don’t smoke in public. I don’t drink and eat in public places such the subway. I always queue and always let my place for a old or disabled person on the bus or subway. I NEVER spit on the streets.

            So don’t think all Chinese are uncivilized.

          • don mario

            hopefully others will pick it up from chinese like you setting the example. i have seen chinese giving up seats on the sub for elderly, i don’t think anybody scoffed at it, i think people took note.

          • David

            I always get weird looks on the bus when I do that. I have even had old men refuse me (maybe thought I was insulting them or hurt their pride?).

          • mr.wiener

            I hauled a kid out of a seat once I’d just vacated for an old lady. He thought he was being funny. The old lady then sat and thanked me., no biggie.

          • don mario

            i have had it too.

            it would be SO much easier if there was a system in place. if the priority seats actually were used as priority seats, and nobody sat in them because they were saved for the people who needed them, it would work and there would be no awkwardness.

          • Kai

            Why are you telling me this? Where did I give you the impression that I think all Chinese are uncivilized?

          • Riddler

            ‘I don’t think it is anyone’s “job” to better the masses.’

            That’s a tough one. Whether you realise it or not, you are doing that. Its intended as a compliment.

            Why don’t you post more often. When you disappear, thats when things get out of hand. I tend to behave when you are around:-) Out of inspiration of course:-)

          • David

            I have the annoying and confusing (to locals) habit of saying “God bless you” when I hear a person sneeze. Just something I do out of reflex and when I deliberately do not say, it I almost feel rude (like mom is looking down on me from heaven and wagging her finger), almost like an itch I have to scratch. If I stay in China for more than a few years I suppose I will have to work on that, but I REFUSE to shot snot balls out of my nose no matter how long I am here.

          • Kai

            Hah, I do too, or for me it is “blush you” which itself is a bastardization of “bless you”. I get some funny looks because of it too. No big deal.

            Yeah, I don’t think any one who isn’t snot rocketing should take that habit up. The goal here is to maintain our good manners and upbringing without picking up bad ones, and if the locals pick it up and begin adopting them, yay.

          • don mario

            i don’t find it any less easy to uphold good manner’s in china,

            1. foreigner’s get a lot of eyes on them anyway, i would much rather portray a positive image of a foreigner than a bum.

            2. everyone is displaying such bad manner’s anyway it is pretty easy to be reminded of the right way to act.
            3. people who snub you are normally so rude that it is just funny, hard to get genuinely annoyed at it. even if you do chinese don’t like confrontation. a stare of disgust normally gets the job done here.

          • Stefan Xu

            Look I’m Chinese and so is my girlfriend. We are both very civilized people and have good manners, I would say we are at least as civilized as or even more so than western people. For example we don’t spit our chewing gum in street. We first spit it on a piece of paper and then throw it inside a trash bin. Just look on the streets in western cities, bunch of old chewing gum marks everywhere.

            When we have children in the future I would NEVER let my children shit on the streets!

            We always wait for the green light. We never randomly jaywalk.
            I always say thank you and bow every time. Always let the door open for the person behind me. I don’t talk loudly in public. I don’t smoke in public. I don’t drink and eat in public places such the subway. I always queue and always let my place for a old or disabled person on the bus or subway. I NEVER spit on the streets.

            So don’t think all Chinese are uncivilized.

          • Riddler

            ‘…. I would say we are at least as civilized as or even more so than western people!!!!!’ Waaaaaaaah!

            ‘….bow every time..’ I never saw a chinese person bow every time. You live in Japan perhaps?

            Never randomly jaywalk? So you do it intentionally?

            No one is saying ALL chinese are uncivilised. No one. Quantifying adverbs exist for a reason. Look out for them amidst a sentence.

          • Stefan Xu

            I never jaywalk at all. I said me and my girlfriend aka “we” are at least civilized as or even more so than western people. I’ve lived most of my life in western Europe. So I think at least I have the right to say so. Western people aren’t perfect either.

          • Riddler

            Oh you have the right to say anything you want. As long as I have the right to disagree. Its not personal Stefan. Please, never ever take all this personally ok? It is never personal. Exchange of ideas. Disagreements. Occasional arguments. But never personal. I DO see things from your perspective whether it appears obvious or not.

          • wes707

            If you lived most of your life in Western Europe then you’re Western. You did not learn those things from the Chinese.

          • Riddler

            ‘ I said me and my girlfriend aka “we” ‘

            Ok now that is pretty cool. “aka `WE.

            Nice couple also known as ‘We’.

          • David

            Far from it, there are many asshole and jerks in Europe and America. I think that is pretty obvious but on the whole we try do try to keep the places we frequent in public pretty clean (a habit you obviously picked living most of your life there), even more so in the country than in the city, which seems to be the reverse of China. I wonder why? BTW the comments are not about Chinese people as a race, they are about people living in China. Obviously if you are Chinese but were raised in London or Chicago, you will act British or American, just like my American friend who has been in China way too long and acts like a local (in the most disrespectful ways).

          • Stefan Xu

            I was raised in London and Sweden. Been to 50 countries.

          • David

            Never been to Sweden but from all I have read it is a very beautiful country and they go to a lot of effort to keep even the cities very clean.

          • DearDairy

            congratulations uncle tom.

          • DearDairy

            validating your superiority over your compatriots. Nice.

          • lasolitaria

            C’mon. Why do you dissect Stefan’s statements so sarcastically? So a Chinese is either uncivilized or a liar? Aren’t you a little predisposed?

          • Riddler

            It wasn’t sarcasm. If it were, oh my, i could have but i didn’t. It was meant to highlight his comments and how ridiculous they are. Butt hurt are we?

          • lasolitaria

            Why is the idea that a couple of Chinese people are “at least as or even more civilized than Western people” necessarily ridiculous?
            Why is the idea that a Chinese person bows necessarily ridiculous? Plus the Japanese aren’t the only people in the world who bow, you know.
            Why if a Chinese doesn’t randomly jaywalk then it means he does it intentionally?
            Seriously, dude, admit you’re at least a little predisposed.

          • Riddler

            Predisposed to what? While we are at it, why do you feel the need to step in for Stefan?

          • lasolitaria

            You’re to some degree predisposed against the Chinese, seeing as you assumed everything Stefan said can’t be believed and/or is ridiculous based on the only bit of data you had about him then: that he’s Chinese.

            I’ll step in for whomever I want. Although I’ll give you that now, in hindsight, he seems to be a troll. Anyway, you’re still predisposed.

          • don mario

            no need to be defensive dude, i’ve got chinese friends, but the good guys are not the ones leaving an impression on most people.

            also, adults never poop on the streets? youtube says otherwise.

          • Riddler

            Well, I just posted the links. Make sure you aren’t having dinner mate.

          • David

            I am very glad to hear you and your girlfriend are like this, only 1,299,999,998 people to go. All joking aside most of my Chinese friends act civilized also but most of them are highly educated/middle class people that I work with (I don’t go to a lot of poor, migrant bars and make friends). However, the streets ARE full of garbage and there ARE piles of shit on the sidewalk and we DO see people doing it on an almost daily basis (I live in a city) so SOMEBODY is doing something wrong. We don’t have a subway yet (they have been building one for a few years now) but I can only hope that when we do nobody will piss in it, but I know I will be quite sad on day one when it happens. All that being said, I can’t help but believe it is better than it was 20 years ago and will be even better in 20 years.

          • lasolitaria

            You shouldn’t pay too much attention to whatever is said about the Chinese in the West. See, Westerners bash the Chinese for their dirty habits and at the same time bash the “barbaric, regressive, draconian” laws of the Singaporean regarding gum. You can’t please those who don’t want to be pleased…

          • David

            I think if you read the comments from the Chinese website (and the original story written by Chinese ABOUT Chinese) you will see plenty of NATIVE CHINESE who are bashing the people who litter also.

          • lasolitaria

            Of course they are, so what? I’m not talking about them.

          • David

            You were making a point to Stephen that he should ignore our comments because we are just bashing Chinese people. You are trying to invalidate the comments that people here are making as just us bashing Chinese. However they are the same comments Chinese commentators are making.

          • lasolitaria

            I ain’t invalidating no comments. I just thought Stefan sounds like he’s trying to prove that he’s “just as good” as Westerners. I don’t think there’s a need for that because, though I frequently indulge in the sweet sport of bashing the Chinese myself, I’ve never, not for one moment, believed that we are better than them and don’t expect them to apologize to us. In summary: the fact that any people think they have to prove their worth to us makes me sad.

          • David

            OK, fair enough. I misunderstood. I certainly do not think he has to ‘prove’ he is as good as a westerner (although to me he is a westerner because he was raised in Sweden and London). However, he did write the same message over and over (like 5 times) so I do not know if he REALLY was apologizing or just being sarcastic. Either way I do not consider myself better than anybody else.

          • don mario

            don’t pay attention stefan.

            keep calm and carry on pooping in the street.

          • lasolitaria

            Sure: “Stefan is Chinese” ergo “Stefan poops in the street”. That’s not racist at all…

          • don mario

            the wave of people who rush to defend the chinese practice of street pooping -adult or child- astounds me.

            we’ve all seen it, there is video proof, its beyond disgusting, get over it.

          • Edward_Crowley

            Just look on the streets in western cities, bunch of old chewing gum marks everywhere.

            Just look on the streets of chinese cities, piss, shit, snot, spit, rubbish, rats, everywhere. And yes I have seen giant rats. Do grow up? I have even been told having rats and spiders inside houses is normal and that I should deal with it. I grew up in spain (a rather warm country, and certainly not wealthy by current world standards!) and certainly never saw a rat or giant spider inside a house, despite them existing in that country also.

            Take a look around and get a grip!!!!!!!!

          • ophiolater

            my wife said your a cheap cunt made dog.

          • Riddler

            How would she know? Did you ask her that?

          • DearDairy

            Of course your wifey said that! She’s a slack jawed uneducated peasant!

            FYI, it’s “YOU’RE” a cheap cunt made dog.

          • DearDairy

            I suggest you back the fuck off Cowboy. Unless you want me to annihilate you intellectually, the way life has annihilated you spiritually.

            We can begin the this topic with:

            A. The quality and education level of your wife, who allegedly responded to my declared preference for social interaction with strangers in China, with a knee-jerk, over-the-top, personal attack utilising both “cunt” and “dog” in the same breath.

            B. Now, if we can establish and agree on the nature of your wife, which to be honest, I think is already quite clear, especially for those of us who have lived in China long enough to distinguish those locals who are educated, well-traveled, and intellectually curious from those who are less so (e.g. speaking volume is a dead giveaway. The uneducated tend to not have a concept of “indoor voice”), we can theorise as to what variety of Westerner (education, age, physical appearance, income, intelligence, nationality etc. etc) would choose, out of his own free will, to marry this particular variety of female and more importantly, his circumstance in life and how it directly affected the aforementioned decision.

            Without me directly implicating your nature, I think it’s quite clear to everyone here, the kind of man that marries the kind of women who curses and personally attacks people whose opinion she objects to, as a first response, rather than engage and discuss like a normal human being.

          • ophiolater

            I did not mean to insult you.
            She wrote me email ask me to insult you here.
            We argued then she ran away without any notice.
            I do not know why either.

        • Riddler

          I hope you would agree that my chinese friend has a right to her opinion and that I have the right to listen to her?

          • Kai

            How did my desire that you don’t buy into her generalizations discouraging you from a behavior you once thought proper become me depriving anyone of their “right” to have an opinion or listen to other people’s opinions?

          • Riddler

            How did my saying I ‘hope you would agree i have the right’ turn into my accusing you of depriving anyone of their right? You accused Probotector of twisting words. Not so bad yourself. Also-troll much yourself?

          • Kai

            Er, because my hoping you didn’t listen to her and change your habit of holding doors for people implied nothing about “rights”. You brought up that terminology. Not me. This isn’t twisting words. I used the very word you used.

          • Riddler

            You haven’t answered my question. How did you come to the conclusion that i accused you of depriving people of their rights? Actually, leave it. Or it becomes trolling. Done with this part of the conversation. I took note of the trolling comment and hope you do also.

          • Kai

            I answered your question. You elevated the discussion into an issue of “rights” by characterizing it as people having a right to have an opinion and a right to listen to said opinions when all I said is I hope you didn’t agree with that opinion. When did “hoping” someone doesn’t agree with an opinion turn into an issue where “rights” have to be brought up?

          • Riddler

            What?

          • Riddler

            I get down voted for THIS? THIS? Some prat thinks my friend doesn’t have a right to an opinion and i don’t have the right to listen to her?

        • Riddler

          Education needs positive and negative reinforcements.

          Agree on this completely.

        • linette lee

          http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hold-door-open-t15075_6264.jpg

          The Chinese in China don’t look at you even if you do this? Don’t they at least give you a smile or nod their heads? The way most Chinese say thank you is by nodding their heads or a small bow.
          They don’t necessary say xie xie.

          • Kai

            I can’t see your image.

            To clarify, I’ve experienced people who acknowledged (thanked, nodded, smiled) my gesture of holding the door for them and people who didn’t. I know people don’t necessarily say xie xie. Non-Chinese people don’t necessarily verbalize their acknowledgments either.

        • Paul Schoe

          Kai, sometimes you make me wonder if you are really in China.

          and actually follow through on it with enforcement” , for most of us here in China, that one sentence displays an other world experience. There are many laws in China, many good ones as well. Varying from dealing with polution and food safety to traffic rules. But enforcement?

          The only moment that I have seen an increase in enforcement was when the police got digital camera’s. Those camera’s empower them as nobody can dispute the pictures. But before that, every second person they stopped would tell them they he/she was a personal friend of the chief of the police station and if they dared to enforce, they would call his superior. In China using the terms enforcement and rules in the same sentence is almost a Contradictio in Terminis.

          It was so a thousand years ago, and it is still the case: there are many mountains between anybody’s location and Beijing. Or between you and a rigtheous judge.

          • Kai

            Huh? I think you’ve misread or misunderstood.

            I wrote: “I agree that China needs to penalize littering and actually follow through on it with enforcement.”

            …meaning I think China should adopt policies penalizing littering and then actually follow through on enforcing those policies.

            I’m wondering if you misread me as saying something like China is good at enforcing its laws…because my sentence is suggesting the complete opposite.

            I can’t for the life of me understand why an expression of wanting effective enforcement to accompany possible laws in China suggests I’m not in China. It’s a desire based on an observation of deficiency.

            What other times have I made you wonder if I am really in China?

          • Paul Schoe

            Smile,smile. No,I didn’t misread you. I realized your intention. But it is such a good faith effort. Many people who are longer in China have more or less given up on the enforcement issue. As somebody else mentioned a couple of weeks ago (I believe it was also a moderator): If you give Chinese people rules, then the only use that they would see for the paper was in the toilet (freely quoted).

            This doesn’t mean that I am not very,very positive about the future of China. I believe that many of these type of problems are the result of the insecurity of the people during the Cultural Revolution and that within 2 generations this type of differences with other countries will have been minimized. But at this moment there is a huge gap between rules and behavior and there is nobody (so also almost no professionals such as the police) in China willing to take a stand against injustice, rudeness or uncivil behavior. The “harmonious society trumps justice and civility.

            So I understood your remark, but enforcement and China are for me so far away from each other, that it nevertheless made me smile.

            As far as the other times, they are few, and are most likely due to similar situations where you ride on a white Western horse here in China. And this is said with full respect and appreciation for your comments. It is very nice to see some sane remarks here among those that, more often then not, do not underdo the type of comments that CS translates from the Chinese sites.

          • Kai

            Don’t remember a mod saying something like that.

            So, correct me if I’m wrong: You feel my expression of desire for enforcement of existing laws is me “riding on a white Western horse”, that such a sentiment is so alien to anyone in China that it makes you smile and wonder if I’m really in China, because if I were, I wouldn’t have such a sentiment?

            Yeah, I can’t really identify with that. I’m surrounded by people in China who regularly desire enforcement of existing laws. This website and the gargantuan amount of netizen text it has translated often express the same desire.

            I get you feel that people and especially law enforcement/government value “harmony” over “justice and civility” in China, but I don’t see it so starkly. Maybe I have different experiences than you.

          • Paul Schoe

            I’ll have a look thisweekend if i can find it (maybe it was on another website, but I thought it was at CS)

            Oh, no doubt that many people in China long for an environment where people are ruled by law. Maybe even an overwhelming majority. But I also feel that an enormous majority of the people over here are not fighting for it. They basically take it as a given that they cannot rely an laws over here for justice. If they really want such security, then I see them more focused on finding out how they can emigrate rather then seeing if they can change it over here.

            I am in no way saying that people should fight for it. China has its own development, over the last 30 years this development has brought an enormous amount of good to hundreds of millions of people and I am absolutely not qualified to give an opinion on how the country should develop.

            But to me, even uttering the wish that enforcement of laws will take place in China within the next 10 years (as you more or less did), displays an optimism that can almost only be compared to Don Quichotte fighting the windmills, thinking that they were giants of flesh and blood. Ignoring laws and seeing how you can make a living without taking them into account at all, seems to be the rigueur here for almost everybody. Laws are for other people and there is certainly no reason to know them, let alone adhere to them.

          • Kai

            I empathize with your feeling that a lot of people in China are not fighting for rule of law and cynically take it as given that laws cannot be relied on for justice.

            I don’t think I’m Don Quixote for my sentiments but I better understand the inflection of your earlier response to me and where you’re coming from to have made it. Thanks for explaining. I’m sure who we are surrounded by and what we’re exposed to in our daily lives influences our sentiments.

            While I’m completely familiar with many Chinese people ignoring laws at their convenience, I’ve seen that it can get better and, in many ways, IS getting better. I don’t have to wait for the next 10 years for enforcement of laws to take place in China. They already are, just not with the consistency and reliability we may want. Therefore, I don’t think it is optimistic to wish for more enforcement in the next 10 years or expect that there will be improvements in this area within the next 10 years. In other words, I don’t think my sentiment is unrealistic and I don’t share your cynicism, but I AM able to understand your cynicism.

          • Paul Schoe

            If I am a cynic, then I am avery optimistic cynic.

            I am a cynic as far as enforcement of rules is concerned, but about China I am very optimistic.

            There are more criteria on which you can judge a country then ‘enforcement of rules’. Lifting people out of poverty, improving wealth, education or health care and security for the elderly are all examples where China has achieved tremendous results in the last 30 years and I don’t see that stopping at this moment.

            And enforcement? The police over here has radically improved their alcohol checks, with sometimes draconic punishments (5 year loss of driving license). The Chinese drivers have taken notice and it is a pleasure to see that ‘forced’ drinking during dinners is now rapidly disappearing. So enforcement seems to be possible.
            (Maybe the giants are big and overwhelming,but they are human after all, so history may show that it is not a fight against windmills. Let’s hope and contribute.)

          • Kai

            Yeah, there’s a difference between being a “cynic” in general and being “cynical” or having “cynicism” in certain areas. As you said, I recognize where you are optimistic and I was labeling your pessimism about laws being enforced within the next 10 years as cynicism. For my part, I think greater rule of law (aka consistent and reliable enforcement of laws) will become an increasingly important factor towards continued improvements in poverty alleviation, wealth generation, education, health and social security, etc. Cheers.

          • Paul Schoe

            Found the remark in the article about Hospital Staff Rally to Guard Body of Fatally Stabbed Doctor.

            The remark was: “There may be some policy or law or regulation . . . . . ., but that is only bathroom reading material for most“.

            And you were right. It was not from a mod, but from a regular non-troll poster, so my mind had him registered as a serious contributor.

          • Kai

            Hah, kinda sad how we can categorize commenters as “non-troll poster” or “serious contributor”.

            Pro-tip: You can get the link to a specific comment from the timestamp next to a commenter’s name, the “an hour ago, 2 minutes ago, etc.” grey text. That’ll be useful for linking people to past comments. Cheers.

          • Paul Schoe

            :-) :-) :-)
            But without the trolls, we wouldn’t have so many laughs when reading the comments.

            PS: Your tip works good. Very useful. Thanks.

      • don mario

        lol, that girl is cold. i have heard similar things from chinese, such as don’t say thank you or hi.

        is it possible that basic human values such as treating your fellow man with the respect you would like to be treated with yourself just don’t apply in china?

        if so what is the point in living there.. i don’t quite believe it, we are all the same, culture can’t remove all the good things.

        • Riddler

          First of all yes, she can be cold. Freezing in fact. But after 10 years or so in china, i could empathise with her attitude. It was worse for her being half chinese. Locals called her ‘dirty blood’ to her face. Like ask her where she’s from, she replied half indonesian half chinese. Reply? A cheerful ‘oh you are dirty blood’

          Its a predicament. For the record, i still open doors and say thank you and help where help is needed. But believe me the temptation to slam the door in some arrogant persons face when they strut past while you are holding the door is still there. But its only a temptation. We can’t change years of being raised in a civil, warm and respectful environment just because we are surrounded by people, most of whom see us as sub human.

          When confronted by people wishing death en masse upon others, i can at time fly off the handle and respond in kind. It wrong. But i am human.

          • don mario

            lol, that is pretty shocking. understandable why she is so miserable. if i were her i would try moving elsewhere. i don’t think its worth staying in such a place where they are racist to your face like it isn’t even a thing.

          • Riddler

            Yes well, I think us ‘foreigners’ get it bad occasionally as with many places around the world. I mean, no one would be wanting to walk around in parts of London if you aren’t of the same hue as that neighbourhood.

            But from what i have been told, chinese born abroad get a rather vicious attitude from locals. As I said, this is what i have been told. It may vary in degrees.

          • don mario

            i think it is more towards people who are percieved as lower class.

            thai, vietnam, phillipenes and indonesian would be seen as lower class asians by chinese i think.. they wont be seen in a good light as white people are. well, thats just my guess, based on how it is in taiwan.

          • Riddler

            Yup. Sad but true. Well put and succinct. Low class. Has such a brutal ring to it. Its when i see people calling others low class directly or by implication that it brings out the worst of me. I could try to reason with them, and go through the arduous task of explanations but i don’t possess such depths all the time. Occasionally the quick route is more effective in getting their attention. Works mostly.

            I mean simple shit. An example among many- waiting in the basement floor of carrefour in shanghai (before i discovered City Store) and had loads of bags of shopping, 1st in the queue (YES! they were queuing) and looked behind me. I see a middle aged european lady standing behind me. She says hello, and we get in a conversation. When the taxi arrives, i told her to go ahead, take the taxi, i opened the door for her, put her shopping in the back (cos the lazy wanker of a driver was slumped on his seat) and waved goodbye to her.

            The locals? They were pointing, literally pointing in my face laughing hysterically. Now the story doesn’t end here. But it is better that i leave it here. Except for the fact that the laughing ending abruptly into a deathly silence. With me standing with a smug expression. :-)

          • don mario

            jesus, laughing at what?? the idea of helping a woman?

          • Riddler

            Its a perplexing question you raise Sir. I have yet to this day, failed to find an answer to that question. Maybe my trousers split when i bent over to pick her bags up. But they weren’t.

          • don mario

            damn! maybe stefan xu can help enlighten us.

          • Riddler

            He’s a little busy right now. I left the links of the youtube vids……

          • wes707

            They probably thought you were her boy-toy or servant because you were being polite and opened the door for her. I’ve had very similar experiences where I’ve helped older female professors hail a cab and got the door them, only to find odd expressions on the faces people watching me.

          • Riddler

            They saw us get in a conversation. Naturally they all craned their necks and pushed forward as we were speaking English. I mean what was I supposed to do? She mentioned in the conversation how she was here with her family. Husband working. Kids at home. A mother with tons of shopping. Kids or no kids. She is a woman and i was not raised in a manner that i could blissfully jump in the taxi and wave goodbye.

          • wes707

            Thank god I’m not in China anymore. Next time I see a group of Chinese people on the street, I’m going to stand uncomfortably close to them and listen to their conversation.

          • Riddler

            Hahahahah. Me too. I’m out for a few months or as long as I want.

          • don mario

            all you can do is pity people who would laugh at that!

          • Probotector

            Well yeah, it’s not done in China.

          • Germandude

            Riddler, you said you are a black guy right? If so, I think I know fairly well why the Chinese were laughing about you opening the door for a (supposedly) white woman…

            That’s just a shitty story. Just laugh back at those guys and point at them. That’s what I am doing…

          • Riddler

            I didn’t laugh. Being black and all, i did what they expected. Something on the lines of an impromptu Zulu War Screech. They shat their pants.

          • Kai

            What word exactly did they use that you guys interperted as “dirty blood”? 混血?That just means mixed blood, which is accurate and not usually an obvious negative or insult.

          • Riddler

            I’ll ask her as I didn’t learn mandarin. Yes, i had my reasons not to want to learn. We can get into that later as its a whole different conversations.

            As to your question, as I said, I’ll speak with her and ask her to type the word out for me. I’ll copy and paste and get back to you on that as soon as i have it.

            She teaches mandarin so i imagine she has more than a reasonable grasp of the language.

          • mimomimo

            Was about to ask the same thing… It’s 混血, I just think this girl is taking it negatively, like when people get royally offended by 老外.

          • wes707

            混 in the 2nd tone also means mix, muddy, dirty, confused.

          • Riddler

            Confused blood…..?

          • the ace of books

            “Oh god, I don’t recognize these lymphocytes around me! Wasn’t I supposed to turn right at the last capillary? Fuck, I don’t know if I’m oxygenated enough yet! God, I need a therapist…”

          • linette lee

            混血 means mixed blood. It’s not a negative word or negative description. 混血兒 means mixed blood baby. Not a negative word.

          • whuddyasack

            I think you’re over extrapolating things, and basing things on a Western interpretation. Especially since the Chinese language doesn’t work the same way as a European language (and neither does Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, etc.). Hanzi is pictorial, and tends to build on each other.

            If I were to explain it using an English logic, this is how it’ll be. When I say that you are bullshitting, it doesn’t have the same meaning as you are shitting and defecating. Although to the hypersensitive, they’d feel that’s what I mean. See? Easy. Hahaha

          • Kai

            I wouldn’t expect a half-Indonesian and half-Chinese grown woman who lives in China and apparently teaches Mandarin to be unfamiliar with 混血, and go on to interpret a two character word literally as two individual characters with multiple meanings, and then presume the speaker intended the worst possible meaning of each.

          • the ace of books

            Dittoing the above folks re: 混血 (mixed-blood). When I tell ’em what I am they always go on and on about 混血, and how 混血 is always so pretty, that’s why you’re so pretty, and you must also be smart, 混血 children are so much smarter, it’s such an advantage to children to be 混血! Note that this is in the same musing, talking-to-myself tone as when they’re wonder why my skin’s so white, so I know it’s at least partially based in positive stereotyping and not just random flattery. (Though I’ll note the flattery element is most certainly there.)

            And: it’s always those two things: mixed-blood is good-looking, mixed-blood is smart. Now it makes me curious wher the stereotypes came from…

          • David

            My Korean students told me the same thing about mixed Korean/white children (so pretty, great color skin, nice nose, so smart). In the next breath they tell me how these kids need to live overseas because no children in Korea will play with them (and they see no contradiction whatsoever) because they are mixed blood. The Chinese seem much more tolerant than the Koreans about this but still makes me wonder if they will talk about you behind your back.

          • the ace of books

            That sounds about correct for Korea, at least from what I’ve read, and I’ve heard similar things about Japan, as well. For China, I think that kind of attitude is different but not entirely absent. From what I’ve read of Chinese-Americans (or really, Chinese-anywhere-mixed folk) coming to China, there seems to be a real bevy of muxed-up expectations waiting for them.

            The “talk about you behind your back” – I’m tempted to say “of course!” because that’s generally the way of things over here – it’s face-losing to say outright rude things to a person who can understand them, but if they can’t understand or can’t hear, you can say what you want.

            (…ugh, why am I wearing these jade-colored glasses.)

          • Dr Sun

            ace when, me my wife and kids lived in the USA, guess what ? yes lots of discrimination and back talking, why would think it would it will be different in Asia ?

          • Edward_Crowley

            They always do. A chinese american guy I knew dreaded being asked questions in Chinese when asked where he was born in China. And Yes shopkeepers in China will judge you by skin colour or how you are dressed vis a vis your ability to pay and how much face they should give you. A truly sick culture, with only confucianism that is rotten to the core, to blame. I made some chinese lose face in HK (mainlanders that is!) for assuming foreigners cannot understand their language, it was something like “ta men ting bu dong” I replied ” wo men bu pa zhong guo ren!” the fat little excuse for a man in stupid glasses soon shut up, if he did not, he would have been flattened by my left and right hands and been looking up dazed at the blue and relatively free skies of hong kong downstairs! End of story!!! I detest mainland men, they are just like primates in their behaviour…..and obnoxious to boot.

          • Probotector

            Well then I’m dreading the day my kid starts school.

          • Riddler

            How’s that going by the way?

          • Probotector

            Into the second trimester now.

          • wes707

            Oh really, they always say those things about 混血? What about African and Chinese 混血? In that case, I’m pretty sure their stereotypes would be the exact opposite.

          • the ace of books

            Don’t be disingenuous. I never said “they always say those things about 混血”. I was relating a personal anecdote, which reflects what people say to me.

            Stereotypes surrounding different countries and continents are different, yes, and some are more harmful or degrading than others, yes. If you already know what the stereotypes are, you shouldn’t ask me about them just to make a point – that’s begging the question, and bad logic.

          • don mario

            exactly, mixed blood is a positive thing when it suits them. a mixed indian or black wouldn’t get that reaction.

          • hs

            Are you at all familiar with chinese culture? No mixing! anything that is not chinese is not good! Mixing blood is definitely not good! Chinese always try to shift things and play it out as if others misinterpret them, but the reality is that people don’t misinterpret them, chinese just accentuate their belief that they are somehow superior to others by demonstrating how inferior to all others they really are.

          • Dr Sun

            google translate is never a good thing, Ace

        • Justin

          Actually, having worked with Chinese people every day for the past 3 or 4 years, I’ve found my co-workers to be the most polite, respectful people I’ve ever met in any country ever, so to say that being polite or showing basic human respect doesn’t exist in China shows you are profoundly ignorant and prejudiced. You are making your assumptions based on what? Your shallow interactions with people in line at the one 7-11 from which you choose to buy everything because it’s the only place you feel comfortable shopping as a foreigner living abroad completely isolated from the country you’re living in. You can stop me at any time if any of this is untrue.

          China is a place like anywhere else. Some folks are brought up with manners, some people are assholes, and in general, on earth, as a whole the assholes outnumber the good people. China has a population of 1.5 billion people, Even if 75 percent are good people, then that means that within China, there is a nation the size of America made up COMPLETELY OF ASSHOLES. And, surprise, surprise many of them live in the same city as you.

          And guess what? By going around assuming that everyone in China is a poorly mannered fuckface, you are actually making yourself a citizen of the great nation of assholes. If this is the case, then you’re well on your way to a political career as President of the Assholes, but you’ll face tough competition from a lot of expats who retain their bitter dispositions despite their entitled status in China.

          • don mario

            well i never said that, i said i don’t believe that actually, double check what i wrote.

            but thanks for the tirade and assuming all number of things about me though….

          • Edward_Crowley

            Give it a few more years, and learn more chinese, then post back grasshopper.

      • hs

        I live in China, you are 110% correct!

      • maybeabanana

        Criminalizing it won’t solve an inherent problem.

    • the ace of books

      I’m going to set sarcasm aside for a sec here and be all serious-like about your comment here:

      The last bit of your comment reminds me of Kohlberg’s Stages of Moral Development*, and what reward is expected at a lower stage instead of a higher stage. The kind of ‘reward’ you talk about here is very second-or-third-stage – “I do this thing and that makes me better than others.”

      And somehow I just don’t think that’d obtain for the majority of Chinese people. A lot of Westerners’ responses to littering is disgust – we’re taught not ot do that as children! how you people be doing such a thing! – whereas the Chinese response is, overwhelmingly, apathy – oh, you mean this is a Thing? Trash and grime is overlooked and ignored, making more trash and grime doesn’t even register on the radar.

      So I’d argue that the ‘reward’ of feeling all superior wouldn’t even be much of a reward, unless one buys into the idea that “all people except for The Glorious Me are sheeple”, and when a person’s like that, then there’s already no helping them.

      TL;DR: obviously China needs a proper anti-litter campaign, but I don’t know if that angle would work.

      *(here’s the Wiki, for the curious.)

      • Kai

        I think it will. There are already public service ad campaigns against littering and depicting the act of picking up litter as being an intrinsic good itself, especially in major cities. Keep an eye out for them at bus stops or on TV. Unfortunately, it’s gonna take a loooong time for it to sink in and be popularized. I remember the US running such PSA campaigns in the 80s but apparently they started back as early as the 50s. What’s relevant here is that the United States was already a middle-class majority country at that time higher on Maslow’s hiearchy of interests, whereas China today is still a predominantly low-class country. The segment of the population that doesn’t care because they ostensibly have more important basic needs than a litter-free environment on their minds is huge. China needs to keep at it.

        • David

          The most powerful Ad for this sort of thing in America was a 1971 commercial/ad campaign by “Keep America Beautiful. Here is a link to the original commercial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM

      • Riddler

        I agree.

        With you.

        Only in the last sentence.

      • mr.wiener

        I think it is more who I am and how I was raised. I don’t like to see people litter and if I’m of an inclination, I’ll pick it up. Not in a self righteous way […well , maybe a tiny bit], but because it’s a habit some locals have that I don’t want to pick up.
        It’s kind of like driving, you have to survive here, so you’ll drive defensively, but you won’t start driving as thoughtlessly and selfishly as some people here [the 45 degree of vision rule]

        • DavidisDawei

          Wiener,

          Where do you draw the line? 1 piece, 2?

          I can picture you out for a would be 10 minute stroll, stopping every 30 seconds to pick up garbage, and getting to your destination an hour later…and when you walk home, it looks as though nothing was done..

    • ophiolater

      then my wife is an angel.
      though i do not know where she has gone now.I come here to see who may help.

    • Probotector

      I hope you wash your hands.

    • don mario

      pointing the finger at someone other than yourself is a way of life china.

    • whuddyasack

      A most excellent proposal. So many people complain about a country’s filth, or something unpleasant when they are fully able to fix it themselves. Instead, they’d rather whine and groan about it. The right thing to do is do something about it AND then complain.

    • Riddler

      Am i allowed, if i see someone littering, to grab him by the scruff of the neck , make him pick the litter up, and introduce him to a trash can? I’ll be thoroughly warm and suffused with an outer glow all week. Can i? Please can i? Stop grinning mr. wiener. Can i pleeeeeath?

      • whuddyasack

        Hahahaha… just remember to clean and wipe up all that blood afterward.

        • Riddler

          I mean just imagine. “THIS (WHACK! YELP!) IS (WHACK!) A (WHACK! AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAA!) TRASH (WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! SOB! YELP!) CAN! (WHACK! SMACK! SCRAPE! AYAAAA! MUMMYYYYYY!)

          • whuddyasack

            Yeah, I somehow just pictured Matt Lee Whitlock pounding on a Fu Manchu ROFL

          • Riddler

            That would do it:-)

  • Stefan Xu

    Actually, I think the subway systems in China are top notch, better than many western systems. Most of the time its quite clean too, I’ve seen similar situations in the west too.

    I think Chinese cities are quite clean when it comes to litter, cleaner than western cities I would say. A bunch of street cleaners helps it too.

    Most Chinese are very civilized people and don’t randomly litter, they throw it in a trash bin. I am Chinese and sometimes I must tell western people to place trash in the trash bin.

    • Germandude

      Whatever you are taking, please give me some of it…

      • Stefan Xu

        why do you think all Chinese are barbarians and western people almost perfect?

        • Germandude

          I don’t think that. I agree with you that the subway systems in most Chinese cities are top-notch.

          Your statement of Chinese cities being cleaner than western cities is simply wrong. Just because Shanghai has 100,000 street cleaners that pick up any dropped can on Nanjing Road within 5 minutes, doesn’t mean it’s a clean city.

          Go to Nanchang, Wuxi, Yiwu and the like and tell me Chinese cities are clean.

          Also:
          http://www.curiosityaroused.com/world/10-most-polluted-cities-in-the-world/

          • Stefan Xu

            Actually I felt London and Paris being more littered than Shanghai. I’m not talking about pollution. I mean stuff such as gums, McDonald’s cups and papers were commonly found. I London there were barely any trash bins.

            http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/london/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8804000/8804328.stm

          • xiaode

            Sorry, but Shanghai is not China. I partly agree, many places in Shanghai are really clean. The subway is also quite clean, if you consider how many people using it ever day. But Chinese cities are – for sure – not cleaner or less littered than western cities!

          • Stefan Xu

            I am fully aware of this, sorry. I don’t like it either. They are not showing respect to the society and the place they live in. We Chinese have certain negatives that need to improved. Me as a Chinese take the responsibility of their actions and apologize to all foreigners that have been disturbed by this unacceptable behavior..

          • Riddler

            You cannot and shouldn’t feel the need to apologise for the behaviour of anyone except yourself. If you aren’t among those that do these things, there is no need to apologise. At all.

            Unless you follow some religion that teaches you to do that of course, then i would understand but still disagree.

          • don mario

            which parts are not china?seemed pretty damn chinese to me when i was living in putuo and the outskirts of pudong.

          • Riddler

            You posts are as vague as your thoughts.

            ‘I felt london and paris being more littered..’

            Do you move with the force? Here is an image from a previous article on CS. A more ‘everyday’ kind of picture.

          • Kai

            Probably has to do with the places you visited in Shanghai being more touristy or well-kept. There are a lot of places in Shanghai where there is a lot of litter, especially after a night of street vendors.

          • don mario

            london isn’t the cleanest place on earth, but i never saw anyone THROW a bag of trash(noodles they just ate in a small plastic bag) out of their apartment window into the streets, that almost hit me. then when it hit the floor rats scattered.

            yea i never saw that in london, i saw it in shanghai tho. so i know which one i am going to say is worse.

          • Riddler

            ‘….london isn’t the cleanest place on earth, but i never saw anyone THROW a bag of trash(noodles they just ate in a small plastic bag) out of their apartment window into the streets, that almost hit me. then when it hit the floor rats scattered….’

            FFS MAN! I was eating and just choked on my food! LMAO! Wicked! BWAAHAHAA! Best comment yet!

        • Guang Xiang

          Why you feel the need to save face with bogus statements like: “Most Chinese.. don’t randomly litter, they throw it in a trash bin.”

          ‘Most’ implies more than 50% and I have a hard time believing that since China’s rural population is 55%, that the majority make it a point to throw things in the trash.

          What about that article on all the trash in Tiananmen during national holiday?

          You shouldn’t be afraid to admit that China has a littering problem that’s over-reliant on street cleaners instead of improving character. If there’s an article on American’s being fat, I would say ‘yep, we are.’

          • Stefan Xu

            Outdated fact you got there. China is now more than 52.6% urban.
            http://www.china.org.cn/business/2013-07/10/content_29383798.htm

            By looking at your name are you by question Chinese?

          • Guang Xiang

            Yes, my numbers are outdated, but that doesn’t suddenly mean that all 52.6% of those urban Chinese don’t litter.

            Yes, I am Chinese.

            I think what you were saying about Chinese cities being clean in some areas is fine, but there’s really no need to say “the west is this, the west is that, too.”

          • David

            Wait, Americans are fat? (looks down) oh yea.

          • whuddyasack

            Lol, David… was that sarcasm? I don’t think you’re fat BTW ;-)

            It’s just that Americans have the reputation as being the fattest nation on average, about a third of the population, but rest assured, Mexico is the new big queen.

            http://blog.chron.com/healthzone/2013/07/were-no-2-u-s-no-longer-worlds-fattest-country/#13890101=0

            “In an international upset the likes of which hasn’t been seen since the “Miracle on Ice,” Mexico has dethroned the United States of the title of world’s fattest country.

            According to a new report from the United Nations, nearly a third (32.8%) of people living in America’s southern neighbor are obese. The United States ranks just below at No. 2 with an obesity rate of 31.8%.

            Among continents, Europe had the most countries in the Top 10 with four. Neither Asia nor Africa had a single nation in the Top 10 (or Antarctica, for that matter).”

          • David

            Darn we just can’t seem to stay number one anymore. lol Well, that is one crown I am happy to hand over. Since North America only has Canada, the U.S. and Mexico it is hard to compete against Europe (ok, we have central America but they are all starving down there and all together they are not as big as one of the other three). I am fat, maybe not morbidly obese but my BMI is higher then it should be and the muscles I enjoyed in my youth are covered with fat, that is what happens when you spend too much time lifting and not enough running (and loving bread and pasta does not help lol). Also, when you approach 50, how hunky you look becomes a lot less important and it is health you need to care about more.

          • whuddyasack

            I thought the same thing, being fat was just too much of a burden lol.

            But yeah, those Central and South Americans sure are toned. Mexico, Canada and the United States, the BIG 3, I like that :-)

            David, perhaps your BMI is high, but you look very fit to me. For someone your age, you sure are fine. I somehow instinctively knew you lifted and must have been quite the man in your younger years. You still are. Intuition perhaps, but you remind me of a teacher of mine.

            That’s something we have something in common. I love pasta too.

            This might be a very rude question, and I hope you don’t mind me asking, were any of your ancestors Native American? Sorry for the abruptness.

          • David

            Thank you very much for the kind words. In China, the only thing my Korean students care about is that I have white skin, big eyes, a cute nose (who knew in China I had a cute nose, in America it is just a big Italian nose lol) and long reddish/brown hair. One of my brothers is a true red head with green eyes, if I had that I would be set here. lol

            On my father’s side, he was born in Italy and came here as a bambino so probably not. On mom’s side her Dad is a Scot and her mother was adopted. While it had always been suggested she looked like a Native American/Scot mix (pretty common in the part of the country she is from) she was raised by a Scottish family and we have no adoption records from 1905. So at the most I would be 1/8. Enough to maybe give me nice cheek bones and good hair. lol I hope that answers your questions. Have a great Sunday.

          • whuddyasack

            You’re welcome. Thank you for all the interesting facts and discussions you brought around the table too. David, are your students Korean Chinese or international students?

            Very interesting information, sort of coincides with this study I remembered about many Chinese, girls and guys wanting to get surgery to enlarge their noses. Many Chinese like bigger noses for some reason. Big eyes and pale skin is a given ;-)

            You’re right about someone with true red hair and green eyes is gonna draw the crowd like crazy, not just amongst the ladies. Sort of creepy in a sense lol.

            I think big noses aren’t a bad feature personally, nothing wrong with a big nose lol. Makes one look more manly. One of my friends is Greek, and I think he’s always pointing out his big nose, it’s sort of hilarious. He wears it with honor, paints it red and goes to parties. Kids love it.

            Thank you for sharing your family history. Was a very interesting read and I got to learn more about European heritage and culture. I find it quite interesting that a Native American/ Scott looking mix isn’t unheard of. It probably is something like the phenomena, colored eyes and light hair amongst Mongols, Kazakhs and Hmong.

            As for myself, on the paternal side, my grandfather comes from Ganzhou.
            My grandmother was an Iroquoian (Mohawk) or at least partly so but she completely identified as one hahaha. Thus dad is pretty much Chinese/Iroquois.

            My mother comes from Guyang in Guizhou province. My maternal grandparents are also from that province.

            It was nice chatting with you. Sorry for boring you with my own family history, even if you didn’t ask for it. I thought since you shared a bit of your life with me, I’d do the same for you.

            Take care, David.

          • David

            LOL no bother at all, very interesting. For the NA/Scot mix it often went like this. In tribes in the South Eastern part of the U.S. the women of the tribes were in charge of most business dealings, including dealings with non-tribe people. Many single men from Scotland came to the new world after the ‘clearances’ and settled in that part of the country and began doing business with the tribes. Sometimes they would marry a native woman for business reasons (sort of preferred trading status) with the obvious advantage of having somebody around to keep them warm at night. While this happened more in the 18th and early 19th centuries, it was not unheard of even later on. I can only assume, since my grandmother was put up for adoption, the encounter was probably of a less permanent nature.

            Now Iroquois and Chinese, THAT is an interesting mix. The Iroquois were a large confederation of nations who started out in the Northeast and eventually (with the help of white men they allied with) pushed the Sioux out of the Ohio/Michigan area (the Sioux moved west and pushed or killed other tribes out of their land, it all rolls downhill). However, your ancestor must have been a very unusual man to make it to the Eastern U.S. to meet his wife. While Chinese there were not unheard of (especially in large cities like NY) they were not common. Since the Native Americans moved to North American from Asia between 14,000 and (according to new data) 50,000 years ago, it is interesting that the two blood lines are reunited in you (and your dad). One last question, were you raised speaking English or were you raised in China and learned English later?

            I have also really enjoyed talking to you.

          • whuddyasack

            Thank you for the explanations and history lessons, both from your side of the story, regarding the NA/Scott and also the information on my side. It’s of course fascinating to hear about your grandmother being put up for adoption, although it is equally disheartening at the same time. Your grandmother must have gone through a lot. It’s amazing whenever I hear the accounts and stories of our ancestors and the hardships they faced. I’ll admit that compared to your generation, and compared to my parents and grandparents times, I have it really good. Everytime I look at my smart phone or every time I log onto my laptop and hit the internet, I realize that back then, people probably had to do a lot more than push buttons.

            As I read about the history in the South Eastern United States, I’m sort of reminded how the world was like back then when mankind was more or less isolated. Special privileges by marriage must have been a thing as old as civilization itself; kings would often marry their daughters to the princes or kings of another kingdom, much like the Chinese Emperors offering their princesses to Turk and Mongol warlords to their North. I suppose it’s still happening today, in smaller measures, an example would be less privileged people marrying into wealthier classes, or minorities marrying White spouses in the West. Unfortunately it does sound very exploitative and materialistic, but for some it could be a fact of life. Thankfully, times have changed and Western society is more equal nowadays. It’s interesting in a way to note that marrying into a Japanese, Korean or Chinese family doesn’t really get you to many advantages (unless of course the spouse concerned is one of the elite government officials).

            Thank you for the explanation and history briefing regarding the Iroquois.They did have a very brutal and tragic history, didn’t they? I read a lot about them and always found that chapter of Canadian/American history to be an interesting one. Yes, it is a very unusual pairing. My grandfather must have been a very unusual man indeed, reading what you’ve written, I’m reminded of the Admiral Zheng He hahaha. But there are so many surprises in this world, and I’ve met so many interesting combinations, people, places and things. I met a Mongol friend and her house was incredible, you could see stuffed animals and trophies hung all around.

            Actually, I’ve always wondered if my grandmother also had some European Ancestry somewhere down the line, but as far as I could recall, she identified completely with a Mohawk heritage and identity. I think some European ancestry could better explain how she met my father. Sadly, I won’t ever be able to confirm with my grandparents now(my dad is no help at all, lol, he’s a brilliant man but he even has trouble remembering birthdates). I lost both years ago. Traffic accident, those things kill more than guns.

            One interesting is that my father is a Canadian citizen and met my mother in Vancouver. So technically I’m Canadian lol. For personal reasons, we decided to emigrate out of Canada and currently I’m studying in an Australian college.

            You probably haven’t been reading much of my flame wars rofl, but if you were I hope you don’t take offense into any of it. I guess a lot of it was just me trying to get into my opponent’s skin as I felt some of the comments attacking the Chinese were way out of line. Unfortunately, I’ll admit, I’m not the most mature person online yet so it all comes out rather crudely.

            Inspite of the way I post sometimes that might make me appear to be particularly fobby, or someone with a very strong connection to China, say second generation, I’m afraid I’m much more more “Western” that I make myself appear to be.

            And yeah, I was raised speaking English lol.

            I’ve actually really, really enjoyed my conversations with you. They’ve always been fascinating and enlightening, full of wisdom and knowledge. Thank you.

        • Riddler

          Why not?

        • don mario

          i’ll hand it to you, chinese subway system is not bad at all. i never saw anything to criticise apart from peoples behaviour, such as not giving up seats to elderly, rushing to grab a seat like a child, and picking nose and other unsociable behaviour.

    • wes707

      “I am Chinese and sometimes I must tell western people to place trash in the trash bin.”

      Really?

      • Stefan Xu

        Yes, they said “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”.

        • wes707

          True, when I’m in China I feel my lung mucus is full of carcinogens. I try to be discreet.

        • wes707

          Is that a pokemon picture? Are you a 汉奸? It’s interesting to note that “traitor” in Chinese explicitly references the Han ethnic group.

          • Stefan Xu

            No it’s the Korean rabbit Molang! Just googIe it.

            No I am not a Han traitor and what makes you think so?, but I am not a Han nationalist since I am not fully Han. My girlfriend is Manchu too. I haven’t referenced the Han ethnic group or have I?

          • wes707

            I see. If you were a Han nationalist and liked 棒子 culture that could make you a Han traitor, right? I’m just interested in Chinese tribalism and how it manifests itself in the language.

          • Riddler

            Interesting. Very interesting. So does this mean, that when someone puffs out his chest and says he is han, i can officially call him traitor?

          • ElectricTurtle

            You sound like a sociopath. I hope Mr. Xu realizes you are just a rude person.

          • wes707

            I’m just trying to understand their form of communication. No malice intended.

          • Riddler

            Sign language? ;-)

          • Kai

            Actually, “traitor” in Chinese is 叛徒, and 汉奸 specifically refers to Chinese who betray their own country or kind. It does get abused thought.

            An important thing when beholding ostensibly Chinese hypernationalists is that a lot of these people totally buy, own, use, and enjoy Japanese or Korean things without thinking anything of it. Just as comments on cS say or threaten things they wouldn’t do in real life, same applies to hypernationalism on the Chinese internet. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of nationalism, but it’s important to realize that a lot of people may talk the talk in certain contexts but rarely actually walk the talk.

          • DearDairy

            Yes true, these internet warriors rarely walk the walk unless they are drunk or have 10 of their buddies with them. Alone? They cower and smile at you. Agree or disagree?

          • Kai

            Er, I don’t get into situations where I’m facing off against a drunk hypernationalist? However, never underestimate how irrational and immature a person can get when drunk or with a group of friends to back them up. Dunno if they cower and smile if they are alone in such situations. I think they usually slink off huffing and puffing, possibly threatening to call their friends to come back and beat you up.

          • wes707

            “and 汉奸 specifically refers to Chinese who betray their own country or kind.”

            Yes, so it means traitor. You know language is not cemented in strictly logical definitions. Propositional logic and predicate logic have both failed to prove so. Language is very malleable: the words we create are filled with human context.

          • Kai

            I agree language is malleable. I’m just saying there’s another word that means just “traitor” whereas Han Jian means more than just “traitor”.

          • whuddyasack

            I think that’s one of the underlying roots of misunderstanding between Western and Eastern cultures. Language barriers and the understanding of such. Just like how many Asians fail to grasp the nuance of a Western language and don’t get satire. A non-Chinese example would be the Japanese were outraged at a French newspaper lately. Though I don’t blame them, making jokes out of Fukushima is disgusting, a concept of Western culture I myself find insensitive and uncivilized, despite being “Western myself”.

            Westerners also take the Chinese language too literally. Sometimes, the language can be very literal in Chinese. For instance 早安 and 晚安 are more descriptive and factual, less flowery than good morning and good evening.

            Of course, things like hygiene, politeness, compassion, orderliness, patience, civil rights of women and underprivileged, not lynching and killing people of separate races (race riots in Western countries) are things that should be universal and where culture should not be used as a form of excuse.

        • Riddler

          When in china do NOT do as chinese do?

    • 5,000 years of uncivilization

      I tend to agree with you until i witness again, even a local in Qingdao throw garbage on the street next to a garbage bin. Perhaps Qingdao is more backward than some other Chinese cities but i don’t see this kind of behavior in other countries i’ve been to. Chinese rely too much on others to clean up after them instead of taking responsibility for their actions. That is a very important part of society. It’s interesting that you have met some western people who litter in China… i’ve never seen that before but i don’t doubt you. Rather, i commend you on educating them. They should be fined and shamed.

      • Guang Xiang

        Sigh, yes, I’m actually guilty of that. After being in China for a long time, I started tossing gum and skewers on the ground, but only if there are others trash lying around. Never in the subway though.

        Just getting too used to thinking someone would clean it up because the next day, it’s all gone.

        • 5,000 years of uncivilization

          I’ve only been in China since 2001 but never leave my own trash behind. In fact, there are times when i pick up litter around my neighborhood in hopes that the locals will take notice of how much better it looks. Of course, the next day, it’s trashed again but i still have some faith they will soon learn how to take more responsibility.

      • don mario

        well i don’t see why they wouldn’t as some westerner’s totally go local. ive seen them adopt the rolled up shirt thing.. and driving like a maniac.

        • Riddler

          I went rather local. Just pushed people out of my way everywhere i went.

        • 5,000 years of uncivilization

          then god help us all.

    • Nessquick Choco

      did you ever watch under your feet while walking , or just read your iPhone and watching skyscrapers ?

      • Stefan Xu

        I don’t have a crappy iPhone lol. I have a Huawei.

        And yes I look down when walking.

        Doesnt’t this look clean and tidy to you?
        more so than in the west imo.

        http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5515/9778996422_fa220a5ae9_o.jpg

        http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3771/9779258213_f804fe8417_o.jpg

        http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3759/9778965961_a5a6c72d8c_o.jpg

        • Guang Xiang

          The issue isn’t that the streets are clean or not. You can get examples for both cases anywhere in the world, so posting anecdotal pictures isn’t really effective. Here are some post-lunch trash in Shanghai.

          http://www.shanghaimommarunna.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/photo-2-e1381878246790.jpg

          The issue is: people feeling the need to throw their trash in the subway and saying things like “but there’s no trashcan”

          • Stefan Xu

            I am fully aware of this, sorry. I don’t like it either. They are not showing respect to the society and the place they live in. We Chinese have certain negatives that need to improved. Me as a Chinese take the responsibility of their actions and apologize to all foreigners that have been disturbed by this unacceptable behavior.

          • Guang Xiang

            You are taking it too hard on yourself (unless you are trolling me), and it’s not like westerners are railing us thinking it’s totally unacceptable. You don’t have to feel like the actions of few represent your own failing. As you can see from the comments, there are Chinese netizens that do see this as a problem.

            To me it’s a minor problem that will be solved as generations continue to improve.

            In the meantime, this ‘news’ is just the gossip of the day. It’s no biggie

          • mwanafa

            Both of you have a point, but I am more inclined on Guang’s side, admitting that there’s a problem(No matter if there is the same problem in London or New York) is one step towards solving it.Stefan is using whatever it takes to convince foreign readers here that Chinese don’t litter(Saving face), Guang is trying to say Chinese do litter and suggesting the solution(which is better, right?).
            It’s not like all Chinese people litter, it’s just that there is a littering problem.
            It’s not like all Europeans don’t litter, it’s just that there is a littering problem.
            It’s not like there are no clean cities in China, it’s just that there is a littering problem.
            It’s not like there are no dirty cities in Europe, it’s just that there is a littering problem.

          • don mario

            exactly. its all about people attitude.

        • mwanafa

          Crappy Iphone? and you are saying it out loud that you are using Huawei. Most of the Huawei smartphones are basically Iphone(copy->edit(lower quality+a spare battery+use Google’s Android OS+Bigger screen)-> paste.

    • Riddler

      Paragraph 1- feeble attempt at deflection.
      Paragraph 2- ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ”
      Paragraph 3- WTF!?
      Paragraph 4- Tripping.

    • Riddler

      ‘….Most Chinese are very civilised people…’

      Those living outside mainland, yes.

    • don mario

      i can’t possibly call a nation of people that poop on the street ‘very civilised’.

      • Stefan Xu

        Chinese adults NEVER poop on the street, the whole ones are some kids. But the majority don’t.

        Look I’m Chinese and my girlfriend too. We are both very civilized people and have good manners, I would say we are at least as civilized as or even more so than western people. For example we don’t spit our chewing gum in street. We first spit it on a piece of paper and then throw it inside a trash bin. Just look on the streets in western cities, bunch of old chewing gum marks everywhere.

        When we have children in the future I would NEVER let my children shit on the streets!

        We always wait for the green light. We never randomly jaywalk.
        I always say thank you and bow every time. Always let the door open for the person behind me. I don’t talk loudly in public. I don’t smoke in public. I don’t drink and eat in public places such the subway. I always queue and always let my place for a old or disabled person on the bus or subway. I NEVER spit on the streets.

        So don’t think all Chinese are uncivilized.

        • Riddler

          ‘Chinese adults NEVER poop on the street’

          http://chinalert.com/2010/10/03/mainlander-shits-in-hong-kong-shopping-mall/

          Enjoy your dinner.

          • Stefan Xu

            There are also videos people shitting on the street in the west too.

          • Riddler

            Except no one here says it NEVER happens in the west.

            ps. were they from china btw? ok ok just kidding! Chill man! :)

          • don mario

            true, i saw a news story recently of some women in america i think.. she took a shit next to some dudes property every time she was out jogging. the guy was pissed off so he set up some hidden cameras to catch her out. nobody knew what the fuck was up with this crazy bitch?

            the difference is, in china we know what’s up! they are just shitting on the street out of convenience and pig like ignorance. i’ve seen a dude with my own eyes taking a piss right next to the public bogs! pure ignorant lazyness.

            i can train my dog better than that.

          • Riddler

            Modesty is inherent to human nature. Even dogs clean up after themselves. Their nature.

          • don mario

            lol, you forgot this classic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlcFCXWx7XU poor guy thats trapped with her!

            and this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmyLhVyhIBw

            in that first vid the guy looks like he is having a laugh, he isn’t satisfied with only pooping in the ATM booth, he also had to throw some on the wall! this explains a china mystery for me. a while ago i went to a public toilet and all of the stalls were plastered in shit, over the walls too. must of been him, lol.

          • Riddler

            I am NOT going to watch this! NOOOOOOO!!!!! I just read your description and had convulsions. It cannot BE! Please tell me you are talking ‘shit’ hhahahah…..

          • Riddler

            I HAVE replied but can’t see my post. Will post again if it discus is playing up.

          • wes707

            Omg, so disturbing…

    • Riddler

      Just a second. Just one second here. You start by giving points to the subway systems in china. No contention there as they are top notch. Except for the general state of things.

      You then proceed to say they are better than many western systems and in the same breath, you say ‘quite clean and i’ve seen similar situations in the west’ which means also quite clean. None of this makes sense.

      You then declare that ‘Most Chinese are very civilized people and don’t randomly litter, they throw it in a trash bin’ and edit with an apology for what appears, at least in your head, a rose tinted view of ‘most chinese’

      I’m not being a dick nor feigning stupidity here. Your post makes no sense.

    • markus peg

      I agree with the subway comment. The subway systems in China are quite new and clean, they are nice, London on the other hand is the oldest in the world and in this day and age it shows, it looks dirty and its confusing, it needs an update

      However, outside of the subway I have seen many Chinese litter on the floor, i even saw a little girl on the back of an E-bike throw a metal can onto the road as they were driving past, i never forgot that coz it almost hit me.

      I have seen many stories online of children urinating on the subway train, i think everyone both Chinese and foreign think thats sick and things like that and spitting on the floor indoors needs to end

  • Hang Em Man

    That is very clean in comparison to the Locusts that come up over the Arizona border and leave their trash in our beautiful deserts. (messicans)

    • Guang Xiang

      Ya! It’s not a big deal because the US has trash too! Litter away!

    • mr.wiener

      How thoughtless of them to leaving their decomposing bodies littering your nice clean desert.

      • Hang Em Man

        It’s not just the decomposing bodies we are talking about; we got trash, food wrappers, bottles, human waste that they cover up, and so on. How about the Chinese support the messicans for a while and see how fed up they get? We already have to to support the coloreds. They are more than enough. Now we have to take of the messicans too? Are you kidding me?

  • Markoff

    waidiren is not correct word (it’s majority of population of Beijing if you look 1-2 generations back), they are not necessarily uncivilized, it should be xiangxiaren, now those guys are really just plain villages with potato bags spitting and littering on the floor

    Respect goes to my hero, young boy collecting trash from floor in Line 10 by himself to clean coach and other guy jelping cleaning lady to collect leaflets from seats. I try to help this way also little bit, at least take out leaflets from hand holders.

    • Kai

      Part of the outrage over this was that some people suspected the Beijing Subway’s use of “locusts” was referring to waidiren, that once again locals were pointing fingers at outsiders for problems in the city when it’s not it is remotely rare that local Beijingers litter like crazy themselves. Semantically, you can argue that the Beijing Subway was referring to anyone who litters, regardless of where they are from.

  • Alex

    Oh how i appreciate life in Taiwan after life in Beijing. In nearly a year i’ve actually never seen any rubbish on the subway here in Taipei. They don’t even fight or push to get on the carriage, just queue with self-respect.

    • don mario

      because you are FINED if you do litter, eat or even drink water on the subway.

      how about that courtesy on the road in taiwan? how about those illegal housing extension law’s that nobody follows because 90% of the buildings in taiwan are covered in corrigated iron?

      the only reason people wear helmets there is because they will be fined if they don’t, you may of noticed some rider’s don’t even strap the helmets up.

      chinese people care most about money, fines solve many problems.

      • Riddler

        Back home in the uk, our school had us clean up the local woods at weekends. School kids, with plastic bags, gloves, and head to the woods and make sure they were kept clean. That instilled in us forever the understanding of how nasty it was to drop litter.

        Now the problem in china is the ’emperor’ syndrome. Imagine. Those of you who are teachers and i know many that are. Imagine you taking the kids you teach, to the local park, streets, and getting them to clean the place up.

        What would the parents do? Serious question. I mean seriously.

  • hailexiao

    Locusts. Mmm…locusts…so tasty. Down here in Texas they’re 8 centimeters long and super juicy when you roast them over a fire.

    • mr.wiener

      Deep fried with ranch dressing ?

      • moop

        everything is good deep fried with ranch dressing

        • the ace of books

          M&M’s?

  • markus peg

    fine 100rmb for people who liter, China will make lots of money and eventually also improve citizens behavior by 75%

    • the ace of books

      Problem is, you’d need to enforce it, and people get into such a tiff when they get righteously indignant.

      • Kai

        Have to stick with it. The main problem isn’t the indignation, it’s the political argument that there are many more important problems enforcements resources should be dedicated to. Because of this, there isn’t enough political will, even though the Chinese government could get away with it much better than democratic elected governments where people indignant over you fining them for littering will vote you out.

      • don mario

        they don’t have such a problem with enforcing completely pointless shite, such as internet censorship. paying an army of suckers to write posts on forums, youtube and such. enforcing it isn’t a problem at all, as long as the government wanted too. which it obviously doesn’t.

  • Riddler

    I love shoving them out of my way on the subway. It makes them MAD! But its ok for them to do it.

  • arterius2

    you guys obviously never been to the New York subway, especially the line 10.

    http://www.thebigquestions.com/newyork.jpg

    • YourSupremeCommander

      Obviously you are pulling shit out of your mouth sir, because there is no such thing as a line 10 in the NYC subway.

      • Riddler

        HAHAHAHAH!

    • ptptp

      It’s pretty hard to clean the tracks on a system that never shuts down. It takes a monster hurricane or a strike to stop the trains. So is the answer to any problem that China might have just “it’s the same or worse in the West?”

      • YourSupremeCommander

        Here’s another poster who has absolutely no clue but still flaps his lips. The NYC subways have cleaning trains that can suck up all the garbage from the tracks as they go. No need to shut down the system and no need to do it manually.

        • ptptp

          You got any proof of that? I’ve ridden daily the NYC subway for 15 years and have ever seen such a device or seen the results of such a machine. And if they do have such machines, they’re not working well.

          • YourSupremeCommander

            You have never seen a Vaktrak? 15 years? You sure its not 15 days? LOL, you are still a baby, I have been riding for 30 years, son.

          • ptptp

            Interesting! But they need more. Since you’re everyone’s Supreme Commander, it is your duty to get more of these trak vak’s in service. I suggest one per major line and as a start at least one dedicated to the No. 1 train which I ride daily.

          • YourSupremeCommander

            ok, i am on it.

        • Riddler

          ‘ flaps his lips’!!!

          I’m TRYING TO EAT! Second choke on food in 5 minutes! FFS! Hahaha….

          • YourSupremeCommander

            If you die please don’t sue me.

          • Riddler

            FFS MAN WHATS WRONG WITH YOU! NOW CHOKED ON MY BEER!

            Status: frothing beer at mouth, LMAO, tears streaming our of my nose and ears hahahaha….!

            I cannot believe how we ever got into arguments when i used a different name. Apologies sincerely and handshake. Hope you accept.

  • Riddler

    So this is a chinese person calling ‘his people’ locusts. Imagine if Japan had said this….

  • Riddler

    You are what you eat.

  • the ace of books

    Gosh, lookit how indignant people get when you call them out on their bad behavior! I especially like the fingerpointing. It’s not me, officer! I don’t throw trash on the ground! And even if I do, who cares, it’s only a little piece of trash! It’s not like it’s so much! What do you expect me to do, inconvenience myself by putting it into my pocket/purse? No, that’d be difficult, and we can’t do difficult things.

  • Mony Xie

    My friends tend to not use the crosswalk when crossing the road. Every time I was like “WTF? The crosswalk is within 10 meters!”.

  • Kai

    Is your wife laughing with them or does “they” there means just the “others”?

    If she is, in the way where she too doesn’t understand why you do the things you do and thinks it funny to laugh at you for it, I’d be kinda annoyed. To me, it’s important that someone as close to me as my wife understands–or at least tries to understand–my values. If she laughs at them, it may not be something to get divorced over, but I’d find it a bit disrespectful. You may not be able to influence everyone around you, but hopefully you can positively influence someone who is close to you.

  • mwanafa

    I think 100,000s of street cleaners.

  • DearDairy

    What a catch. You must be proud.

  • DearDairy

    It’s like getting mad at a dog for licking it’s own balls. Why bother?

    • Kai

      Because if these people are “dogs”, they are “dogs” that can learn not to do so, just like “dogs” elsewhere learned not to. Negative reinforcement works.

      • don mario

        but a dog licking its balls is washing itself, thats normal right?

        • Kai

          Yeah, but humans aren’t dogs and can learn to “wash themselves” by waiting for a trash bin and not just littering.

          Offence is taken when people are likened to dogs (like when they’re likened to locusts!). I was just trying to defuse it by sincerely answering DearDiary’s rhetorical “why bother” question.

          • don mario

            yea, pretty weird thing to say, its fairly obvious people can learn to throw rubbish in bins.

  • ptptp

    No, the better off areas in the outer boroughs are kept well maintained too. The poorer neighborhoods are lefte to their own devices.

  • YourSupremeCommander

    And people who compare a subway system that was designed and built over a hundred years ago to a system that was built a few years ago… need their head examined.

  • don mario

    they must of gotten worse since i was last there. easy soloution for this, and most chinese social problems= fines.

    ban eating, drinking or littering on the subway. it work’s in taiwan. the subways are crystal clean, everyone proudly holds up order, and then as soon as they get on their scooters they turn into selfish mentalists again.

  • don mario

    trade her in for a new one dude.

    you cant be doing with this kind of actions in china or your children will be raised to poop on the street.

  • don mario

    thats how you choose a gf.

  • don mario

    it would work for sure, hit them where it hurts -their money.

  • Riddler

    Key words: ‘if’ & ‘imagine’

  • don mario

    yea its a joke. i had an ice cream in the blistering heat once. it melted over the wrapper as i was eating it, there wasn;t a bin for miles, i ended up keeping onto it until i got home, it was gross but still, that litter was my responsibility.

  • Riddler

    Japan also.

  • whuddyasack

    Well, Singapore does impose fines for littering.

    • David

      and caning lol very clean there.

      • whuddyasack

        Wow, just when I considered fining was already strict… but caning as well. The Singaporean society always reminded me of the military, strict, disciplined and a lack of tolerance for miscreants and rebels.

  • Stefan Xu

    Look I’m Chinese and my girlfriend too. We are both very civilized people and have good manners, I would say we are at least as civilized as or even more so than western people. For example we don’t spit our chewing gum in street. We first spit it on a piece of paper and then throw it inside a trash bin. Just look on the streets in western cities, bunch of old chewing gum marks everywhere.

    When we have children in the future I would NEVER let my children shit on the streets!

    We always wait for the green light. We never randomly jaywalk.
    I always say thank you and bow every time. Always let the door open for the person behind me. I don’t talk loudly in public. I don’t smoke in public. I don’t drink and eat in public places such the subway. I always queue and always let my place for a old or disabled person on the bus or subway. I NEVER spit on the streets.

    So don’t think all Chinese are uncivilized.

    • Cauffiel

      What’s that…. what’s that sound? Y’all hear that? Sounds like someone…. tooting their own horn! :-D

    • David

      Just re-reading all the comments from top to bottom and this is like the 6th time you have posted the exact worded message. Are you writing this or simply copying and pasting it. To be honest ever if you want to say the same thing, it will make more of an impact if you write them fresh each time. Otherwise you like like a troll.

  • Riddler

    Never been to india but from friends who have, it seems that india is winning at the moment. For the moment.

  • David

    That is amazing (and heartening) to hear.

  • David

    I have a young friend who has told me how much it drives her crazy to see people act like this (spitting, peeing yelling and fireworks at 5:00 am). Granted she lived a pretty sheltered life until she moved out on her own but it was encouraging.

  • mr.wiener

    I agree, damn those australins and their thoughtless comments.

  • don mario

    yea, i agree with not doing business with them. it isn’t worth the hassle.

    so why is the whole of the western gagging for some of that action? fools.

  • mr.wiener

  • don mario

    disagree with you on that one. they know how and using the metro is taipei is a civilised affair, like night and day comparing it to china.

    and when did you see it not clean? the place is spotless, you are not even allowed to have a sip of water on it.

  • al in china

    Total joke these Chinese are! Sorry to all the good clean Chinese I like all of you but man your country has such a problem. The brain washing that Mao started is now being done by the mothers and fathers. China a country of no culture, no self respect.

  • DavidisDawei

    Perhaps many Chinese are “trained” to be this way?
    China’s social welfare employs people who come out and clean at night. You will see them cleaning the streets and sidewalks with their straw brooms and music playing water trucks. They pick up the garbage very nicely, but there is still always this layer/film of dirt/grime left behind.

    When I read stories like this, I think of the area around Shinjuku station in Tokyo. I was there for several days and could not believe how clean it was considering it is the busiest station in the world (almost 4 million people per day). I found myself carrying my garbage because I couldn’t find a bin on the street, but despite no bins, no one tossed it onto the ground; and almost no cigarette butts, even with all the smokers there.

    I can’t say China is alone. Most cities are much dirtier than Tokyo. New York is dirty AND smelly and many of the people there are pigs who dispose of garbage and cigarettes onto the ground without a second thought.

  • DavidisDawei

    Anon,
    Can you elaborate please?
    What was your experience there that has you writing…

    “never do business with the chinese, never trust the chinese, never listen to the chinese.”

  • Riddler

    First of all, get turn off your caps lock bro. Appreciate your comment all the same.

  • Riddler

    That’s harsh but true.

  • DarkXess

    lol this is nothing! check out the London tube after a Friday or Saturday night when all the clubbers have been out drinking, they leave all the left over foods, beer, other drinks, plus sick everywhere after being drunk. Having a subway with no litter bins just like the London tube – what do you expect?

  • don mario

    sorry, my mistake. it was late. yea i don’t like the trains in taiwan either, or the buses. the fast ones are good tho, and the MRT is good, i’ve never really seen it less than civilised. i find the people on forumosa complain far too much, they should try living in china.. not that there are not things to complain about, but queing is pretty far down the list compared to driving and shit ass looking buildings.

  • ptptp

    Yes, I agree with you. I live near some of those castles (but not in) – if you ever want to see a beautiful spot, visit Wave Hill in Riverdale. I was in Mott Haven this evening (not because you mentioned it) and the subway station was really filthy like the old days. It shouldn’t be that way.

  • Patf

    That’s a lot cleaner than NYC subways. Notice there are no urine stains.

  • SonofSpermcube

    Is there an expression along the lines of “this is why we can’t have nice things” in Chinese?

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