Chinese Students Demand Biden Apologize for UPenn Grad Speech

United States Vice President Joe Biden commencement speech at University of Pennsylvania 2013 graduation ceremony.

On NetEase:

Biden Claims One Cannot Breathe Free in China; Chinese Students Demand He Apologize

Global Times – United States Vice President Joe Biden gave a speech at America’s University of Pennsylvania graduation ceremony, claiming that China is a nation that cannot “think different” or “breathe free”, arousing resent from the Chinese students present. According to a May 22nd report [Chinese translation] by Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post, the school’s Chinese students have already drafted a letter, demanding that Biden make an official apology. As of the 22nd, already 343 people have signed, the letter to be first sent to the school’s president, then sent to Biden’s office.

Biden has always been widely known as a “big mouth”. The UK’s The Guardian claimed that Biden’s May 13th speech was “by far the funniest of the recent commencement addresses.” While talking about how “the Chinese are going to eat our lunch”, Biden’s speech changed and said, “China’s problems are immense, and they lack much of what we have, such as an open and fair legal system, vibrant venture capital markets, as well as innovative thinking”, “The key to all this is the ability to think different, but in one nation, you cannot think different, you cannot breathe free; In a nation that cannot think different, you are unable to challenge orthodoxy, because change only comes from challenging orthodoxy.” At the end of the speech, Biden twice mentioned China, as well as mentioning his 10-day visit to China in 2011 August.

South China Morning Post claims UPenn Wharton Business School graduating Chinese student Zhang Tianpu said: “I believe Biden should apologize for his inappropriate comments, he made those comments at commencement in the face of at least hundreds of Chinese people. It was a humiliating experience, and how can a graduation speech be this political?” Zhang expressed that he and his peers have already drafted a letter to Biden, demanding that Biden make an official apology. With regards to Biden’s comments, Zhang retorted: “My ancestors were challenging orthodoxy even before his ancestors got to America.” He also rebutted criticisms of him overreacting, saying “after four years of hard work and studies, the graduation speaker suddenly says to you, you and your nation suck. How would you feel?”

Biden’s office at present has not issued any comment. South China Morning Post says Biden has been attacked many times before due to inappropriate comments, once claiming in an exclusive interview that Russia is a “withering country”.

(Original Headline: American Vice President Claims China Cannot Breath Free; Chinese Students Demand He Apologize)

United States Vice President Joe Biden commencement speech at University of Pennsylvania 2013 graduation ceremony.

Comments on NetEase:

网易江苏省无锡市手机网友(114.224.*.*):

Looks like these college students who went overseas and come back to be government officials will be government apes as well. Learn the West’s democracy, freedom of speech, robust legal system, perfected social institutions, and bring these back.

网易山西省太原市小店区手机网友 ip:221.204.*.* (responding to above)

Kim Jong-un studied abroad too and isn’t he now a complete hooligan as well? Stop dreaming.

网易浙江省衢州市手机网友(123.157.*.*): (responding to above)

I think these overseas students are second-generation government officials [children of government officials], and what they represent are vested interests.

网易重庆市手机网友(27.8.*.*): (responding to above)

That’s exactly what they are/represent.

网易新疆克拉玛依市手机网友(124.119.*.*): (responding to above)

No matter how poor our motherland is, it is still our home, which you’ll come to understand once you go abroad. America is a country where racial discrimination is extremely severe. Even if you emigrate to America, they will not treat you as an American. Although many ethnic Chinese have immigrated, they still long for their homeland, not like some American running dogs [pro-US Chinese netizens] who can’t go abroad but still bark every day online.

网易广东省惠州市网友 [haro-wu]: (responding to above)

We didn’t say we want to emigrate to the United States. Those who emigrate to America are all your masters. Please differentiate, there’s nothing bad about the country, what’s bad is the ZF, and it is precisely because I love this country that I would point out the faults of this ZF. Your masters’ children are all American running dogs already. When this ZF’s shady aspects are criticized and exposed, instead of saying this, you instead call us American running dogs. My god, just what kind of pig brains do you have?

网易新疆克拉玛依市手机网友(124.119.*.*): (responding to above)

Stick to the facts/don’t change the topic, I think the the things you’re saying are like those of a 3-year-old child. Being brainwashed by NetEase is what’s real, all day reporting those negative news to get eyeballs, clicks, and traffic.

网易新疆乌鲁木齐市手机网友(221.7.*.*): (responding to above)

Fuck your mother, even Xinjiang produces wu mao< [referring to the above commenter’s location, Xinjiang province’s Karamay city]? Get the fuck away from me.

网易浙江省丽水市网友 [鸟有之乡乡长二舅他爷]: (responding to above)

[网易新疆克拉玛依市手机网友], do you remember the big fire there? In 1994, let the LD go first.

网易广东省手机网友 ip:117.136.*.*: (responding to above)

He is that LD.

United States Vice President Joe Biden commencement speech at University of Pennsylvania 2013 graduation ceremony.

网易辽宁省沈阳市网友 [dai_2000_66]:

Brother [referring to self] is only interested in this overseas student’s family background.

网易江西省手机网友 [冷眼看你嚣张]: (responding to above)

Internet Cultural Revolution?

网易山西省吕梁市手机网友 ip:124.165.*.*:

Those who can study abroad are generally the children of government officials or unscrupulous businessmen! They cannot grasp the social inequality and the law’s unfairness [in China]! Right now, we aren’t quite able to breathe freely in terms of rule of law, and cannot breath freely even more in terms of polluted air.

网易上海市徐汇区手机网友(116.232.*.*):

They, in America, can demand other people’s Vice President to apologize for a few remarks, but when they come back, they may not even be able to demand that of a deputy county mayor.

网易江苏省泰州市手机网友(58.223.*.*): (responding to above)

You dare even make a village head apologize? Just wait till your roof is removed in the middle of the night.

网易中国手机网友(117.136.*.*): (responding to above)

[What the commenter above said] is correct [more accurate].

网易浙江省衢州市手机网友(123.157.*.*): (responding to above)

A village head apologizing can even make headlines on NetEase.

网易贵州省贵阳市手机网友(111.178.*.*): (responding to above)

[I] Support the student, defending his own and his nation’s dignity, way to go! That their just actions are widely vilified by NetEase netizens, I truly wonder what their [these NetEase netizens] motives are.

网易浙江省衢州市网友 [iloveyou444555666]: (responding to above)

When a country’s citizen’s don’t even have dignity, can the country have dignity?

zzzttzzz [网易江苏省无锡市网友]: (responding to above)

Shielding/justifying faults, the more you do it, the worse it is/becomes.

United States Vice President Joe Biden commencement speech at University of Pennsylvania 2013 graduation ceremony.

网易河南省洛阳市网友 [梁心难测]:

[I] Hope these noble and righteous Chinese students will first demand an apology from the principal who took little girls to a hotel!

网易福建省手机网友 [坐看云起时315]:

The feeling towards one’s Motherland is one where we ourselves can criticize it as we please but others insulting her is not acceptable. Seeing many comments all questioning the study abroad student for saying something, I truly feel sad for and ashamed of ourselves. I don’t love the Party, I don’t love the ZF, but I love the land where I was born and raised!

网易福建省宁德市网友 [小石头爱围脖]: (responding to above)

So would/will you come back after studying abroad?

xujunemail [网易广东省东莞市网友]:

What they say abroad is the truth, and when we return to the country, we can’t talk like this anymore.
If you do, then you’re subverting the government.

网易英国手机网友(82.132.*.*)的原贴:1

Let me say something on behalf of students studying abroad! Remember in 2008 when the Olympic torch relay was obstructed abroad? Who was it that used their own bodies to protect the group and protected national dignity?! After the Wenchuan Earthquake, us overseas students donated money and supplies, and no matter whose hands it all ended up in, at least we had the heart! What the Americans say is not false, we acknowledge this! But we could not stand for [him] criticizing our motherland in front of thousands of people!! No matter where we are, we always remember we are Chinese! Chinese people’s matters will be solved by ourselves! It’s not for you foreigners to criticize and mind [be backseat drivers]!

网易河南省网友 [苍火红莲]:

If Biden does not apologize, I suggest these patriotic students show their courage, tear up all the college diplomas earned in America, and those with green card cancel them and return to China, go to the neediest places in our motherland, [like the] rural areas, mines… there are many areas where good can be done! —-And if you don’t come back, then you’ll [be labeled a] Chinese traitor!

网易广东省深圳市手机网友(113.110.*.*):

These overseas students do not know China better than the Vice President of United States of America! Kiddo, when you come back and try to make a living on your own, then you’ll understand that what he said is correct!

没有牙齿的楼主 [网易江苏省苏州市网友]: (responding to above)

You’re wrong, [commenter above], those who study abroad and come back are generally all second-generation government officials or second-generation rich, so would it still be the same [would they have the same experience trying to make a living on their own and reaching the same understandings about China]?

Help us maintain a vibrant and dynamic discussion section that is accessible and enjoyable to the majority of our readers. Please review our Comment Policy »
  • Mike

    doesn’t the reaction to this kinda prove what Biden is saying? As some of the commentators mentioned, imagine if they tried to do this in China what would happen…..I mean the US is far from perfect, and so is China but to get all riled up over this is just ridiculous…

    • John

      are you kidding me? Have you ever spoke to an American and say something negative about USA?

      • Leo

        Are you saying that American’s don’t criticize their own government? Have you ever read an American newspaper or seen a protest in the country’s capital?

      • lonetrey / Dan

        Have you been to college? I’ve spoken to MANY Americans there and said small negative things about USA, and then end up having them deliver a long-winded agreement speech to me about USA’s negatives. >__>

        Then again, college is where you can find new fledged minds. Probably unfair to apply those examples to the rest of America, but just saying that I could point out a lot of examples to your question.

        • POS

          A lot of those kids pick up a Chomsky book and suddenly they think they know all kinds of deep shit that no one else is privy too. I used to be like that, then I lived abroad for years and got perspective. The USA has many flaws and I don’t hesitate to acknowledge them, but among humanity’s many nations it is the one with the most potential to do good and be a beacon.

      • nqk123

        I don’t know where you get your info, but it’s wrong. Most American accept and often discuss about negatives side of America. Only the ignorant, uneducated, and blind extreme nationalism would condemn individual for saying negative comments.

        • BiggJ

          Yep, Most America the first thing that come of out there mouth when you talk politics or whatever are negative things. And most will offer ideas on what they would do to change it.

          • Rick in China

            Not just Americans. Almost every country in the world.

            Including China. Most Chinese hate the system in China on a one-to-one. They just don’t like it when anyone else in any other country points out the obvious. It’s almost like a “I know my shit stinks like SHIT, but you better say it smells like m’f’in FLOWERS, otherwise…………LAOWAI, WE GWAN BRING THE WUMAO ARMY to protest EVERYTHING against you, meanwhile protesting the same things you said face-to-face with everyone we know. BLAM”

          • linette lee

            all ya listen up laowai,
            better don’t say shxt about chinese. XD. lol hahaahahha….

      • Mike

        considering I am American, and that I am EXTREMELY willing to talk about all the negatives of the US, you come across as being just as ignorant as the people you want to paint in a negative light (Americans)

        • Jobjed

          Cool, but are you willing to have your country’s faults shoved in your face at your graduation ceremony? A graduation ceremony is a time for celebration and motivation, not a time to make your own country look superior at the expense of another country.

          • Irvin

            Insults can be motivating.

          • Jobjed

            Your mother’s a fat pig.

            Dayum, that motivation!

          • Irvin

            Tell her. I kindda like a fat mother.

          • Rick in China

            You obviously have major butt-hurt issues if you don’t understand this thread, and defend the “yah but it…uh…waaaaaa” issue at hand.

          • Mike

            I get insults shoved in my face everyday living in China, the point of my original post is there is no reason to be upset about anything. What he said is not even that inciting unless you are the ultra patriotic robot that can’t think for them self.

      • Yes I had! every single time ! and unlike Chinese, most yanks they have the courtesy of debating and listening. Dunno within the US, when I was there I didn’t care about politics. I was just 15.

        Most Chinese (except some I know and love) would never ever accept any kind of criticism, mostly when they are gathered in big numbers. So What Mike said is true, in my own perspective.

        Why don’t we write a letter to CCTV asking them to apologize for all the shit they talk about every other country in the world every day at 7pm?

      • Yeah

    • The Enlightened One

      I agree, they are taking it TOO personal but it was still uncalled for. I would just be annoyed at the fact this moron decided a University Graduation was the best time to push his agenda… maybe he should of scheduled a debate so the Chinese students would have a fair play to poke him back…

      • Irvin

        There’s never a wrong time to push your agenda.

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          So a funeral would also be a good time to push your political agenda?

      • KAMIKAZIPILOT

        Agree, nothing wrong with the content of his speach, but totally inappropriate time and place for it.

        • POS

          Kinda like moralizing over the dead bodies of bomb victims after a terrorist attack, you are a real genuine twit lol, take your own advice wanker.

    • nqk123

      Biden was criticizing the Chinese government, but some how these students felt that he was talking about them (common people). And what Biden said is quite true. let them go home and try to demand an apology from their offical, and see what happen.

    • Rick in China

      The reaction doesn’t prove what Biden is saying directly, however, if the roles were reversed……

      Do you think that if a graduation speech where given by a Chinese official and at some point in that speech he said something like America’s problems are great, they have a failing financial system and a lot of people unhappy with government reform (or lack thereof)….. American students would rile up and consider it a bane against their very right to existence, writing letters “demanding” apologies and explanations?

      Of course not, because nobody gives a f’ what Chinese politicians say about foreign countries. Most country’s citizens care very little about what any other country’s politicians say (as a small part of a speech especially) about their country, especially if they are valid criticisms. Many may even support the comments when they’re factual.

      • Irvin

        american students? here? in china? where?

        • Nick in Beijing

          No shit.

          I am in my first year of uni here. I went to school in the U.S., but I thought going to school here would be enlightening and would make my CV shine a little more later on. At the end of the second term of my first year and I am already thinking about dropping the whole idea. Why spend thousands of rmb each year I could save, or spend on something more enjoyable only to go to class, get criticized for asking questions (literally, that happens all the fucking time) and be told how great, and clean, and polite Chinese are despite the filth and generally low behavior that goes on right outside the gates.

          Not to mention constantly being told how foreigners are entirely lacking the mental fortitude to comprehend China’s greatness and Chinese society (the texts in our books literally say this, and repeat it often).

          These stupid students have no grounds to complain at all. Also I highly doubt they took those comments as being against the common person, because they are very likely not common people. They took it as a remark against the government of China, and since most of them are the kids of government officials, or the children of business people who benefited from connections to the government, they take it as a sleight against themselves.

  • Alex

    I love the comparisons of trying to do that back home with the heads of villages,

    haha.

    “it’s funny because it’s trueeeeee!”

    http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080702135305/familyguy/images/c/cf/Vlcsnap-165143.png

    So brave in laowaiguo, so shy in his own country.

  • Zappa Frank

    i’ve noticed too that chinese students abroad usually don’t know anything of their own country and tend to be ultras for reaction.

    • Leo

      That is because when they are taught their history it is in these super ulrealistic and dry tones. “…and then Mao using his superior integrity and infallible moral efforts defeated the evil tyrant Japanes without any help. He was a perfect man who was 76.666% right and 24.444% wrong while saving our country.”
      I remember one of my Chinese students telling me in the most serious tones how absolutely mind wrenchingly boring his history and politics classes are. Don’t be fooled they are surrounded by propaganda, which is why math and science is so attractive in comparison ha.

      • Nick in Beijing

        “…After the Imperialist’s atom bomb failed to detonate over the Japanese devil’s homeland The Great Leader Mao reached his mighty and indomitable member over the sea and split the atom by the sheer force of the incorruptible virtue he ejaculated onto it. Thus the atom was split for the first time in the natural history of the universe.”

        Science and history according to Chinese schools.

    • POS

      Its the cognitive dissonance of having everything they believe in challenged, many cling to an ethno-nationalist reactionary chauvinism in an attempt to steady themselves but only become more fengqingish in the process and less able to critically analyze and think for themselves. A lot happen psychologically when people go abroad out of their comfort zone.

      • ScottLoar

        Agreed. The typical mainland Chinese student in the US is quickly challenged by news, opinions, references and information that create a severe cognitive dissonance, so the student retreats to the land of the familiar, the secure, the known, which are other mainland Chinese students. For many (most?) mainland Chinese students their term in the US is going to class, study, taking the exams and socializing with other Chinese students.

        • Germandude

          Which is interesting and funny, considering that through the sheer amount of ABCs, the students from China should have it easier to “get hold” of the US culture. I can only confirm what you and POS said. In San Francisco, the ABCs tried hard to integrate mainland Chinese exchange students, but it was hard as they still stuck with each other in the long-run.

          Contrary to that, most of the Chinese students that I got to know in the Netherlands, were totally westernized within a few months once the “ice was broken”. I mean, the Chinese students went all-in in regards to daily life with part-time jobs besides studies, experienced the famous coffee shops after some hesitation, found the Dutch way of dealing with prostitution interesting and so on. Most of the Chinese students actively participated in all kinds of social activities and some of them even took over roles to organize events to socialize.

          I can honestly state that many of them were Dutchanized (lol for the word) when they finished their studies. I still have contact with some of them who are back here in China and meet them regularly. They are the ones that alienated themselves from their own country in the sense that some want to go back to Europe or that stay because of good jobs while having trouble with their private life (family customs, not able to find a partner etc.).

          Interesting too was that in fact, the Dutch system didn’t really support too much on integrating the students from abroad with special courses or services (except the compulsary English and Dutch language courses and a meet’n’greet week) and threw them into the cold water so to say. Girls integrated quicker than boys because the guys were a bit more shy. Except those who were doing sports and mixed up with other nationalities quickly through social activities.
          The 2 nationailities that had most problems of integrating were Indian and Taiwanese. Taiwanese felt that the Netherlands were too calm and both girls broke up studies after 2 semesters. And the indians, well, let’s call them special. They wouldn’t want to have any private contact with others than their own country-mates.

          • ScottLoar

            The divide between mainland Chinese and ABC is huge. ABC’s and mainland Chinese are similar to American Jews and Israelis; the ABC’s and American Jews know very well they are Americans after some interactions with the homeland folk. In all the time I’d studied Mandarin overseas I met perhaps a handful of ABC’s who were able to tough it out more than a year or so and go on to really learn the language, and the most successful of those was actually 混血兒.

          • Germandude

            That could very well be an explanation. However, I still don’t think that’s it. If I compare the environment of let’s say west coast USA with e.g. The Netherlands, I’d say that there are many similarities: multicultural population with huge asian mix, pretty open-minded and tolerant people, established Asian communities, incl. loads of restaurants and supermarkets that not only sell Chinese goods, but help in housing search etc. pp.

            The language barrier in the US might be 10% lower than in the Netherlands since almost all the Dutch speak English. Plus, I would say that Americans are more sensitive when dealing with strangers. It’s easy-going but shallow to not insult somebody else. The Dutch however often behave like the elephant in a porcelaine store. Extremely direct to see the reaction of the ‘receiver’. THEN figuring if they went too far. I am not kidding you when saying that we walked in a group of international students along a river and a (40 year old?) couple was laying naked in their garden. One Chinese found that funny, the rest was pretty reserved. Dutch guy comes over and says that they can join laying naked in the sun and that maybe more can happen (I was lmao)… Took us quite some time to explain to them that people are free to do whatever they want if they don’t hurt anyone else and that being naked is not as offensive as it might be somehwere else.

            Coming back to the Chinese in US thing: I somehow feel Chinese students coming to America admire the US but still have a kind of cold-war feeling in them where they think the US is the big brother and the class enemy. Idk, just interesting to observe.

          • linette lee

            In San franciso you don’t need to speak English. It ‘s a huge
            China Town. There are Chinese from China, Taiwan, and HK everywhere. With Chinese restaurants and entertainment. So it’s much harder to integrate into USA culture when everything is so conveniently Chinese.

          • Germandude

            Or it should be much easier to integrate because you can find people with the same background as you that could assist.
            I know what you mean, but it’s up to each person to take their own path.

          • linette lee

            That is true. It’s up to the person. But I think most chinese students from China,taiwan,hk are already so used to their own culture like foods, chinese music, chinese dramas, chinese celebrities..etc…even if they try foods and other things from usa culture they just can’t enjoy it as much.
            And when you hang out with friends you want to be able to share similar interest and have conservation. That is why the chinese stick together.

          • POS

            Thats why you dont go to California! Its the same reason I didn’t go study in Shanghai or Beijing (well that and the fact I cant stand the pollution there).

          • Nick in Beijing

            I saw the same thing when I was in San Francisco a little less than a month ago. I liked a lot of the Chinese who I met there though, to be fair. Many of them had at least attempted to integrate into American society, even if only partially.

            On the other hand though, it was a good thing that I am fairly fluent in Mandarin. The wait and cleaning staff in the hotel where I was staying were all fucking peasants from the South-Western countryside of China, and they couldn’t speak a lick of English. Not even English necessary for their jobs.

            I fucking hate those people so very much. I also dislike Westerners who come to China and make no attempt to integrate into Chinese society, even doing as little as learning the rudiments of the language. Those people piss me off just as much.

          • Khanthology

            damn you spend too much time analyzing and typing about other people. learn a sport, write music, date a girl or something.

          • Germandude

            I play multiple sports, listen to music and am married. I focus on other important things too. What you do in your free time is none of my concerns. Have fun.

          • Khanthology

            what makes you care so much?

          • People care about other people, it’s natural. Otherwise you’re just something with a non-functioning brain sitting in a selfish cubicle.

          • Germandude

            Thanks for your reply. Couldn’t have said it better.

          • Zappa Frank

            intresting. in italy i’ve seen reather the opposite, despite many italians try to be friendly with them it doesn’t work, well maybe italians are too warm sometimes and that makes them feel embarassed, however they always choose to remain among themselves..Some clearly say that don’t want any italian friend…. and it’s goes just for chinese, japs can get along with italians after a while.. but chinese seem cannot.

  • Chinamark

    I agree with Biden. I hope he doesn’t apologize. Mainland Chinese, for the most part, are incapable of innovating. Imitation? Yes. Innovation? No.

    • John

      First comes imitation and then comes innovation. Just like the Japanese did in the 1950’s… they copied and copied and by doing that they learned and now would you dare say Japanese are not innovative?

      • Chinamark

        But the Japanese had the education and institutions that allowed for innovation. The Chinese keep education as unstimulating as possible in order to block out the dissenting mind. The world isn’t so one-dimensional as you think. Just because one country followed one path doesn’t mean that it’s the only path.

        • The Enlightened One

          I have to agree with John on this one. Many Chinese I have spoken to are aware that they are uncreative and their education system is failing them.

          Over the past three to four years, this has become a great concern for most of the Chinese parents I have spoken to… a lot of schools are trying to adopt western educational systems.. some successfully, most unsuccessfully due to the teachers and management trying to accomplish something they have no idea about…

          But I see a lot of focus moving from pure academics (or useless face memorization) to creative thinking, problem solving, dealing with social situations and learning proper manners. If a school doesn’t offer this (and most don’t) many parents are placing their kids into after-school/summer programs that focus on these areas.

          I have seen this first hand. Slow, but 1.4 billion with a collective society is a hard nut to crack.

          • Leo

            It is true that the parents think this way but for how long have the leaders of China known that their education system has to change? They send all their children abroad for Gods sake and still maintain their own system-even at times boasting its superiority. The truth is that once students start adopting western education systems (eg critical thinking techniques and less authoritarian classrooms filled with lecturing) the sooner that students will start thinking critically about their own government. At the point when even poorer families are given this kind of education system the last hopeless vestiges of authoritarian communism begin to break down. Therefore, you will not see any drastic changes outside the universtiys and middles schools which only the rich can afford

          • Dave

            “They send all their children abroad for Gods sake and still maintain their own system-even at times boasting its superiority.”

            That kinda sums up China, actually. Never admit failure, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

            If someone says otherwise cut out their tongue. If they persist, cut out their heart.

          • The Enlightened One

            Partially true, but not entirely.

            There are school programs opening in China (some are government projects, but most private) up that do admit children that are not rich but I would say they would have to be middle to upper class to afford the fees which can be more than the average school tuition itself…

            These programs focus on more practical skills, as I mentioned. Also, more and more international schools are opening that follow a western curriculum and mindset.

            They are not just segregated to the wealthy Chinese but alas the commoners will probably get left out until the government schools make a drastic change.

          • Unfortunately for most Chinese, those schools get paid more than 20k rmb per semester (per student, and that’s without counting the “admission fee” which is pure profit for the school’s headmaster) . Something that falls into the universal modern China requirement: You get it if you have the money to pay for it. Even if they can afford it, doesn’t mean those kids would get what their parents expect. I used to work at a Canadian school (they work with innovative and creative thinking, etc) in Changchun and most kids would spend their time on their iphones or computers, playing weixin or CF (Stupid counter-strike Chinese rip off in form of a loophole, any experienced gamer with an ounce of brain would recommend you to stay away from it) I even saw a 6-year old going to class everyday with an ipad his parents gave to him.

            The enlightened one I agree with you, but I believe it will take 4-5 generations (if I am allowed to be so optimistic) to crack that nut.

  • Reila90

    To summarize,
    Biden : “Bla bla bla.. Murica is strong, China is not, end of story.”

    • tomoe723

      More power to Murica!! LOL
      Murica land of the free, riiiighhttt… free my ass..

      • moody

        hoooo, they’ll free your ass alright if you don’t behave

    • POS

      Penis envy is strong with this one

  • 5000 years of history ….

    Putting lipstick on a pig. You are still a pig. Go to america, get a degree. Your country is shit. Are you really free? Even the air sucks.

  • Misiooo

    ‘you and your nation suck’. Well, does it not?

  • Irvin

    Demanding someone to apologize for saying something that’s true? I thought these are university graduates, how can they be so highly fed and lowly taught? “Those who cannot agree with their enemies will be control by them” I thought that was a chinese saying.

    • John

      You’re the one that think that it’s true. To me, Americans aren’t free at all… (Patriot Act, religious nuts controlling the government and so on, over 1% of the population is in jail…) To state something like that is an opinion… Now to claim that it’s true you must really be special. Joe Biden is popular man, and he should know that his words have more weight than the average person… If you’re nearly a ruler of the most powerful country in the world, and you don’t realize that, it’s pretty sad…

      • Barney Rubble

        But the essential freedom to ‘think differently’ being referred to in the story is the ability to question everything you are told, and to learn to form your own opinion. Anyone who has ever studied in a Chinese university and a university in any other country will quickly notice this difference between Chinese and foreign students. It is also something which is instantly commented on by lecturers from universities of other countries who visit China.

      • Leo

        “The Patiot Act….1% in jail.” Barney Rubble below is correct when he says Americans are taught to think differently, or think critically. You only have to see the most prestigious Chinese university (Beida, Qinghua, etc) for a couple of hours (let alone months or years) to realize that even there students nor teachers are taught to think or act critically, which is a fundamental aspect of learning.

        The Patriot Act and the other aspect you mentioned are the exception and not the rule. It is a typical strategy of the Chinese to point out aspects which are least democratic in western society in order to portray it as such, but even the most politically active and critical American would not define America by these efforts to combat terrorism or maintain a stable society.
        Americans aren’t free? We can stand outside the white house/ military establishments/ government agences and protest or voice our views. Whereas if you even glance the wrong way at Zhongnanhai or Tiananmen you will be confronted by the police. Wake up man.

        • POS

          Agreed, throwing out a few buzzwords like Patriot Act and trying to write off the tangible difference in freedom between the US and China is disingenuous at best, smells like the same failed logic I hear often on Sina which itself is just a rehash of Xinhua/Peoples Daily talking points.

      • Irvin

        Let’s for the arguement sake that america has no freedom and hitler is their president, it still doesn’t make Biden’s speech false. What’s right is right. Just because america got it’s flaws doesn’t make china’s wrongs any more right.

        “Water is wet” <— this is a fact no matter if its said by the pope or a nazi. We should judge Biden's speech in it's own merit, independent of everything else.

    • Chinamark

      Agreed.

    • POS

      Spot on, these kids are blind and the fact that they wouldn’t even be able to protest a village cadre yet have the gall to get huffy with the US VP just illustrates the point even further. It seems going abroad makes them even more fenqingish and reactionary. Not the slightest ability to undertake critical thinking and analysis, just simple minded nationalist knee jerking. Biden hit the nail on the head, maybe thats why it was so humiliating.

      • KAMIKAZIPILOT

        “Simple minded nationalist knee jerking” – speaking from experience I see. Looks like you have something in common with these Chinese nationalists after all.

        • POS

          Are you gonna buy me a drink or you just wanna get to blowing me?

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Blow what? You have nothing to blow. I will shit on your face though and you will love it.

          • POS

            You and your strange Japanese fecal oriented bukake fantasies, tell you what blow me and then buy me a drink.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            I like pussy but yours is probably rotten and stanky from all the dicks you’ve taken up there. No wonder you’ve got such an inferiority complex towards me and my penis.

          • POS

            [facepalm/headshake]

  • The Enlightened One

    While I agree with Biden on some points, isn’t it just retarded to give a politically charged speech like this in front of international students (especially Chinese) during a graduation ceremony?

    I mean, pick your time and battles. If he is going to give a speech on China, shouldn’t he try to make the students feel inspired and motivational charged to change in China (obviously out of place during a graduation anyway) and build up relationships with America?

    This guy is a dolt.

    • I don’t think the guy is stupid. I think he knows exactly what he’s doing, knows it will piss off some people, and just doesn’t give a fuck. I like Biden.

      • The Enlightened One

        True, I shouldn’t say stupid. Maybe just wants to piss some people off just because he can. Not exactly a great way to win over the support of the Chinese community, but who cares really.

        • They paid their tuition and didn’t really stand up and shred their diplomas in protest, so it really doesn’t matter much. They’ll contribute and do business with the US just as much as they would have without his comments.

    • Rick in China

      “Enlightened”. Self-proclaimed, yet obviously not.

      You say “If he is going to give a speech on China” – since when was this a speech on China? Did you see the speech? Did you even google or youtube to see the whole speech? You’re looking at one small excerpt and ranting about how stupid this shit was. I’d argue that you’re the stupid, and obviously NOT enlightened one, for reading a paraphrased and heavily opinionated piece then going off on a tangent.. what are you exactly, a Fox news intern?

      • The Enlightened One

        Taking your shots for the day Rick?

        You think I haven’t heard the “Oh, he thinks he is Enlightened”, thing 1000 times? Like you are the first one to take a stab at the name?

        I chose this name because it reminds me to keep an open mind to new things and try to understand them. Part of that is understanding truth, psychology and logical patterns. You already mentioned you were border-line sociopath and it really shows.

        Stick to attacking the argument rather than the person, it makes you look unstable (as you already know). I guess I would rephrase “give a speech on China” during a graduation ceremony to… “committing parts of his speech to the inferior traits of China and superior traits of America…” or simply “if you are going to INCLUDE China in your speech with hundreds of Chinese parents and students in attendance”… does that make you happy? Get some meds dude.

        • Rick in China

          Hilarious retort. So you dedicate your response to the first 5 words, one a conjunction, of my reply – rather than the meat of the meaning. Wow. Really Enlightened. You got me brutha.

          That being said, your whole bullshit nonsense about “I call myself enlightened because I try to be open minded” – well, there is a big difference between being enlightened and open minded. You should do some research on the verbiage you use son, because you clearly don’t understand the English language well enough to title your own moniker and stand behind it. “The Open-Minded One”..suitable, yes.

          Secondly, how many hundreds of Chinese students were graduating exactly? Is that another speculation? There were more than 300 signatures, so you presume 300 mainland Chinese students were graduating? Have you heard of the internet, social media, or “join this cause” nonsense spreading across the internet? Almost every story on ChinaSmack is the result of this phenomenon, and your logic and understanding clearly comes from these stories…..so hopefully you are at least ‘enlightened’ enough to grasp the concept that the little tidbits of information you read here, gleaned from information that came from information that came from information, don’t represent facts, is present. I don’t think it is. That’s why I don’t argue with you. You’re clearly more interested in attacking a person, rather than an argument, and your response to my response shows exactly that. Good on ya mate, you’re a star!

          • The Enlightened One

            “Almost every story on ChinaSmack is the result of this phenomenon, and your logic and understanding clearly comes from these stories…..”

            Wrong, been here seven years. Experience.

            “gleaned from information that came from information that came from information, don’t represent facts, is present. I don’t think it is.”

            Obvious. We are “think” things, that’s the point of these boards. Opinions are opinions, you don’t like mine? That’s fine, being tolerant of other people’s opinions is part of being “Enlightened” and “Open-Minded”.

            I said hundreds of Chinese students and parents.

            Article says:

            “South China Morning Post claims UPenn Wharton Business School graduating Chinese student Zhang Tianpu said: “I believe Biden should apologize for his inappropriate comments, he made those comments at commencement in the face of at least hundreds of Chinese people.”

            Testimony of a Chinese student actually there, and the signatures on the petition are also suggestive to back up that claim. Whether it was hundreds or one Chinese guy, still a shitty thing thing to do.

      • Khanthology

        stop being a cry baby Pasty.

  • The Enlightened One

    Am I the only sane person that thinks mentioning the downfalls of other countries during a graduation ceremony is just a dumb ass thing to do? Like all of those students are obviously hyper-patriotic Americans, right?

    How would you like it if a world leader came to your graduation or your children’s and started saying shit about different countries around the world?

    “Yeah, so Chinese are dumb robotic sheep that can’t think for themselves.”
    “Indians are messed up, sexually frustrated and even the British gave up on them.”
    “Japanese live in denial about their war crimes and can’t deal with responsibility.”
    “Australia is just a huge penal colony full of lazy off-spring from ex-cons.”
    “Canada is our bitch to the North that we exploit for resources.”
    “Mexico is full of drug dealing border jumpers all named “Julio” and “Maria” that exploit our resources.”

    “But America is A.O.K. okay everyone, let’s grab some snack and drinks!”

    May as well just attack everyone and be a total dick, why stop at China?

    • Raminess

      It was a dumbass thing to do. It was inappropriate and wholly irrelevant. You can make a great graduation speech without having to mention the virtues OR faults of other countries. It’s about the graduates, after all.

      • Dave

        Commencement speeches are typically pep talks on entering the workforce. The challenges and obstacles that the students can now overcome with their knowledge.

        He just went further and specified China as one such challenge that is easily overcome.

        Newsflash: Politicians make things political.

        • Nick in Beijing

          Why the hell should he apologize to the Chinese students anyway? I wasn’t aware that the schools were opened and their curriculum developed for Chinese students.

          If they want to go to American schools, they should be ready to stomach American opinions. That is what is called freedom of speech after all.

          Of course they have the right to be indignant and take offense, but that doesn’t require anyone to issue formal apologies for expressing an opinion at a school where the majority of students will be working in companies competing directly with their Chinese counterparts.

          Seems like an appropriate speech to me.

          • narsfweasels

            “If they want to go to American schools, they should be ready to stomach
            American opinions. That is what is called freedom of speech after all.”

            Well said. Their freedom to express their disagreement is also part of free speech.

          • Nick in Beijing

            You are correct, and I mentioned that as well. However I also said it doesn’t require anyone to issue any apologies.

            To demand an apology only shows how little they value or understand the concept of free speech.

            Instead of being stupidly indignant about what was said, they ought to provide a thoughtful counter-argument. This appears to be beyond them, despite their fancy and expensive degrees.

          • narsfweasels

            It’s typical CCP schtick: “Our feelings are hurt, apologise!” ignoring the fact that “hurt feelings” are not a good reason to demand an apology.

            Also, one cannot help but admire the way these students are taking full advantage of a liberty denied to them in China – namely the right to openly and as a group criticise authority figures without fear of repercussions.

          • Les Battersby

            Indignant is the right word, but hoping for a coherent and thought out counter argument, well, you may as well wait until the drunken cows come home.

          • Hui

            You are right, pointing at the “faults” of other countries is classic American opinion.

        • It’s a recruitment speech to keep Chinese students and other foreigners in the USA by spreading fears about freedom and crap about China. They know China and the east will be eating their food pretty soon.

    • Leo

      I agree, but the response was also silly as the students seem to believe that not only when he said what he did was wrong but also WHAT he said, which is intollerable

    • You get politics from a shitty politician. But yes, that was idiotic to do..and seems irrelevant to congratulating the graduates.

    • KAMIKAZIPILOT

      Agree, politicians are free to say what they want but at a graduation speech, full of Chinese students? I mean why make things political on a day when you’re suppposed to help students celebrate. I agree with what a lot fo Biden said, but it’s just the venue was inappropriate.

      • POS

        So wait the guy who promptly starts moralizing about American foreign policy when a bunch of civilians in Boston are blown up is now butthurt that Biden gives a speech emphasizing the importance of freedom in building a dynamic economy at a graduation speech at an American university? Petty hypocrite is being generous, wash the sand out of your vajayjay already.

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          Says the nationalist loser who has nothing to live for and knows nothing about the world. I sure wouldn’t want to be you, bitter little girl. Want some tissues to wipe your eyes?

          • Jiang

            Stupid Jap, go blow yourself up or something…

          • Khanthology

            John, stop being racist.

          • ifoewjroiw

            hey chink, go fuck urself

          • Khanthology

            don’t be on the receiving end of this, say NO to racism:

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            I love being a Jap. BOOM I blew myself up. Now can I make sweet love to your mom?

          • Alice S

            Dear Jap
            Equipment: 1 Match
            Instructions: Set yourself on fire.

          • POS

            Yep I figured that was about the best you could do :)

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Actually your comeback was even more pathetic than I expected, which is saying a lot. At least challenge me.

          • POS

            Take a look at your reply to your original post and think about what you are saying.

          • POS

            *your reply to my original post

    • Kai

      @Enlightened Ass

      You seem to be oblivious to the fact that many people in the US do not like you FOB Chinese. Not only are you loud, rude, crude, but you’re pretentious and obnoxious.

      Who do you think Senator Biden was speaking to? He was speaking to all the mainland Chinese in the audience. Since you don’t know it, the US and China are in a pre-war stage. Some call it a “cool war.”

      His speech had just the effect he wanted – embarrass all the (mainland Chinese) pseudo MBA graduates. He didn’t care if you were “humiliated.” He didn’t care if you don’t come back to study in the US. His purpose was to tell Americans that China is a “tofu tiger.”

      The US only wants the $$$ from little sissy Chinese kids of corrupt government officials.

      Yes, mainland Chinese are “dumb robot sheep.” It’s obvious, the stupid guy, who was upset by Senator Biden’s speech, was getting a MBA from Wharton, didn’t realize that the insult to mainland China and the mainland Chinese graduates was intentional. Dumb fuck paid full-tuition and didn’t learn a thing. He should have studied at Beida.

      • mr.wiener

        Either you pinched the moderators name or Kai has been eating too many steroids this week.

        • It’s him, he came unglued

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          Kai must have multiple personality disorder. Either that or the stress of running CSmack has made him totally bonkers.

        • The Enlightened One

          LoL… Kai has had enough with us… he couldn’t handle the pressure and starting popping pills and downing the juice.

          I actually thought it was the moderator for a second… I was like WTF, this poor guy needs to get laid or something.

          • The Enlightened One

            Hahaha… he down voted me like 5 seconds after I posted this comment. He is REALLY mad.

        • Kai

          I want to go with me not being the only Kai in the world rather than this being intentional impersonation but the signs look bad.

          For the record, I highly doubt Biden was intentionally trolling mainland overseas students, and I agree with TEO’s comment. He may not have intended it, but you would think someone in his position and with his experience would know such remarks could needlessly offend and come across as poor form.

      • The Enlightened One

        FOB Chinese? Do I look Chinese to you moron?

        I don’t care what he meant by doing it. What he said may be true, whatever… that doesn’t change the fact he acted like a prick and reflects poorly on Americans because he is a world leader.

        Why stoop to a lower level if you are so superior?

        And why did you steal the moderator’s name?

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          Just a guess but he might have thought you were the girl in the picture. Either that or a Chinese on steroids.

      • Khanthology

        Kai let’s keep it together. Ending hate and racism begins with you. Let today be the start of a brand new Kai full of love and care for all the beautiful bright lives around you.

        • Kai

          I try, but not much I can do when it isn’t me who is unable to keep it together. BTW, we would’ve liked to respond to that email you sent us, especially after you began commenting and arguing with other commenters, except you used a fake email address.

          • Always Supreme

            I see this reply after I cancelled the Khan account some time ago, so didn’t respond. I only tested the waters on this site by laying some smackdowns to see what these racists were made of. Nothing. I realized the racist haters here are either just extreme loser beta males or self hater/traitors who can’t thrive in the west or anywhere else. They hate their lives so they whine and produce pseudo theories about the Chinese. This is your site, your people and if I was in your position I would be laying the smackdowns that these racist losers deserve. They need to hear it and people need to see it implemented. Then, I noticed some of my comments were offed. No love lost, I have faith in you Kai. Remember, you are on Top when everyone hates on you. Stop hating on the Chinese. Peace.

          • Kai

            Based on my recollection, your “smackdowns” were over-the-top enough as to not be immediately obnoxious and often rather amusing in a Navy Seal meme sort of way.

            We don’t have any record of any of your comments being “offed” though we were watching you, especially since you were openly saying you were trolling people and predicting that you’d be moderated.

            Your conclusion about the racism you see on this site is applicable enough. It can get annoying, but in the same way certain racist Chinese netizens can be. I’ve argued with these sort of people for years, and I still will sometimes, but I pick and choose between those who might be taken seriously and those who won’t. Sometimes you just gotta let people embarrass themselves.

            I agree that people need push back on the things they say sometimes, and people need to see others pushing back, as it might encourage them to do so themselves. We’re all for that. That’s what the comments are for, as long as it stays within our comment policy. So as long as you can articulate a point reasonably and not cross over into harassment, by all means, voice your disagreements.

          • K

            Fair enough Kai, but we all see that there is way more Chinese bashing on here being tolerated. As a Chinese moderator, I certainly would not support some of the offensive words used to describe the people of your country. Let it be, as I know everyone is just trying to improve the conditions of China through this type of open discussion. Destroy and Rebuild right? But at least you now have the Khanthology formula on how to bury racist losers and haters six feet deep. I’m just saying. And lets just hope some of these men who pick up such racist thoughts don’t slightly disrespect some of us monsters in real life, as some of us would have no hesitation in bashing their little brains into pudding to set an example on how to bury idiots offline.

            Please say Hi to Fauna for me!

            =)

          • mr.wiener

            Khanthology:
            Flame me back means you are a racist
            Disagree with mean means you are a beta male.
            Being Asian and doing any of the above means you are a race traitor.
            Cry me a f*cking river.

          • Germandude

            According to his own doctrine, using smileys is not done by Alpha-males. I was shocked to see how he ended his post.

          • mr.wiener

            Khantology:

            Anyone who uses emoticons are vegemite drilling, pillow biting, handbag carrying beta-male faggots…..except for me….and hugs, lots of hugs.

            :)

          • LoserRacist

            Khantology doesn’t exist and Khanthology is no more.

            The smiley face wins.

          • mr.wiener

            Love the new name, can I change mine to something mature also…how about wannabeinternettoughguy?

          • wannabeinternettoughguy

            Fauna?

          • Khans humble servant

            The Khan told me to tell you he is in fact crying right now. Crying because you censored “fucking”. Don’t ever censor such a beautiful word especially with a star, he says.

          • Kai

            I wouldn’t say we’re “supporting” those offensive words just because we don’t censor them. It’s more like we don’t think its necessary to censor them because we feel they end up proving a point for us. Know what I mean?

            LoL, as for your “Khanthology formula”, I thought there was a sort of lyricism and poetry to how you commented. Fauna, due to cultural differences, didn’t really understand and find your comments as amusing as I did but she understood the gist.

            For anyone who runs across this and doesn’t know what I’m talking about:

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/pictures/chinese-man-spends-5-years-walking-home-carrying-house-on-back.html/comment-page-1#comment-564361

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/pictures/chinese-man-spends-5-years-walking-home-carrying-house-on-back.html/comment-page-1#comment-564548

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/pictures/chinese-man-spends-5-years-walking-home-carrying-house-on-back.html/comment-page-1#comment-564615

            There are like 10 pages of comments from you so maybe there’s something in there where you legitimately wronged someone (seems mr.wiener has an issue with you that I wasn’t aware of, and he doesn’t usually strike me as one of the “racist losers” you say you were responding to), but stuff like this was pretty funny to me. It was, to me, more disarming than offensive. Like I said, like the Navy Seal meme.

          • The High

            I get your point.

            I can’t remember, but I’m pretty sure those two commenters asked to get spanked by responding wrongly to one of my crazy posts or comments. I don’t think either of them caught onto the humor of it all. Maybe its age difference as I think they might be a lot older than I. I was hoping BigJ would come at me, since I saw many hateful posts coming from him. But he laid low after my attacks, and I think he’s been quite nice since then. I don’t know.

            As a newcomer on your site, I didn’t have much of a clue who was saying what. Just saw how inaccurate most of these online racists were, so they were all easily dealt with. Instead of going hard against one side, I attacked both sides of the race debate to be fair, which is why I trademarked calling people out as Loser Racists. This is for anyone who uses the race card on this site. I think I trademarked ChinaSmackdowns too, not sure.

            I will continue to stay updated and hope young people won’t take what they learn on here and get physical on the streets.

          • Kai

            I liked “shag hut” personally.

            Yeah, you attacked a behavior instead of a “side”, so that was good. You probably rubbed homosexuals the wrong way though…

            Fair warning, please don’t use multiple screen names. While it’s kinda obvious they’re all you, other people might think it’s okay to use multiple names and that results in sock-puppetry.

          • Shag Hut

            I’m not going to post anymore after today.

          • Mighty曹

            Damn Khan Bro, you can’t ditch us now!

    • AndyLC

      Dude, it’s Joe Biden

      This is just what he does, and everything he said is what mainland Chinese think of themselves. They seek US degrees because of the superior education system, the superior opportunities, and the chance to become US citizens.

      These guys are just brown nosing for the Communist Party, and the Communist Party does not represent the Chinese people.

      • helsic

        I totally agree with you. I have been living in China for just 5 months and I can see that not everyone here is happy with what the communist party does.

    • Cao Ni Zhonguoren

      He was right though.. Chinese people just steal others ideas. They are barely even people. No morals.

      • 不要脸

        ‘They are barely even people’

        This site has fallen such a long way to this point where now that isn’t even considered trolling. Why are you even here if you hate China that much?

      • mr.wiener

        “They are barely even people”
        Compared to some of you fantastic life achievements no doubt ,hmm?

  • Steeevyo

    The truth hurts doesn’t it?

    • Steeevyo

      Why else would all the Chinese come to study at UPenn and other American Universities?

  • China Pays America to Rule

    Well America has a huge debt, which China will never have. As for open and fair legal system, vibrant venture capital markets, as well as innovative thinking, China has the money to buy you off. So shut up!!! Let’s ask some Shenyang rich man which does not understand English to buy over University of Pennsylvania, it’ll only takes like 10% of his savings.

    • Dutchy

      You’re right, and that guy was a peasant turned real estate developer with help of his corrupt official brother-in-law and now he’s trich, but still a peasant. There’s more than money in life son…brushing your teeth for example.

      • Irvin

        There’s more to life than money is a foreign concept that most local chinese will not comprehend. That’s why there’re so many females here sprouting shit like “better to be a third wife than marry a poor man” and the general perception that the ideal husband is one with a house and a car.

        It’s just how things are here, since there are no moral values to be found they can only seek monetary values.

        • Dave

          That’s an old cultural thing that is new again. They were OK with everyone being poor, until they weren’t.

          Sure, they didn’t have much choice, but they went along with the whole communism thing for quite a while.

          • Irvin

            And we will come full circle again some day, the more things changed the more they stay the same.

          • I do remember each and every time my Chinese friends and wife told me how pretty, organized, clean and calm China used to be when they were young. and that’s considering they ALL had to take shits or showers together.

        • Leo

          Agree. There is definitely a vacuum in the Chinese spirit. A thirst for money and fascist nationalism has replaced religion and China’s ancient values. Thankfully I have met some Chinese who recognize this and are now trying to get more out of life.

    • David

      Chinese TV Host Says Regime Nearly Bankrupt

      China’s economy has a reputation for being strong and prosperous, but
      according to a well-known Chinese television personality the country’s
      Gross Domestic Product is going in reverse.

      http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/chinese-tv-host-says-regime-nearly-bankrupt-141214.html

  • YourSupremeCommander

    All you dick lickers go ask your VP Biden, what foreign language all his grandkids are learning right now, go, go ask him. Now STFU.

    • Leo

      The fact that you believe any country is beyond fault or criticism shows immaturity, self-doubt and insecurity. Yes Biden’s children learn Chinese, he probably respects the Chinese very much (I saw him speak when he was in China last August). He does not give off the impression that he does not care about the students or China but that the people of China should be encouraged to stand up for themselves. We live in a global community now and there should not be anythiing wrong with trying to help eachother, regardless of nationality or color

    • Irvin

      Ever heard the phrase “Enemies will agree with you but a friend will argue”?

      Imagine you got shit on your face, who do you think is your friend? the one that stay silent or the one that said “dude….you got shit on your face”?

      • Dave

        The one that gives you face.

        Shit.

        Face shit.

    • Spanish? Or French?

  • Dave

    ” America is a country where racial discrimination is extremely severe. Even if you emigrate to America, they will not treat you as an American.”

    GRAAAH THE HYPOCRISY BRINGS ALL MY HATE AND IT BURNS MY EYES.

    How many have emigrated to China and are treated as Chinese? Like, what, five people?

    OH, WELL,THAT IS DIFFERENT, ROUND EYES.

    • YourSupremeCommander

      Why would anyone immigrate to China? Only if you are a reject from your own country. I love going to China, but as a short term tourist, living there long term, hell no!

      • Probotector

        Some of us have families here.

      • Dave

        Brilliant answer. You get to feel superior to any Chinese native AND any laowai expat.

        Bravo.

      • Leo

        That is exactly the kind of thing that drove me nuts in China. It is exactly BECAUSE we have bad Americans (and other nationalities peoples) in China that you SHOULD go to China and show what an honest American is like. Giving up on the average person is the absolute worst thing you could do, as many of them do not believe in the negative propaganda they hear, and are very open to meeting Americans. It is just unfortunate that there are so many reject expats who end up meeting Chinese students -especially in western provinces. Going to the rural areas of China was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life because I saw chinese who weren’t the sons or daughters of government officials and didnt have hundreds of stereotypes and prepared nationalistic speeches to rant at me.

        • Probotector

          What kind of reject expats have you met?

          • Leo

            I was in a smaller city of Sichuan. But in just about all the areas outside the provincial capitals you find these kinds of people sad to say.

        • Everyone here seems to have had such awful experiences. Maybe you got to China too late? I don’t know. Most of the expats I met in China were pretty good people. There were some bad apples but they were pretty much shunned and didn’t stick around.

          Of course, if you are living in a place like Shanghai…well…yeah it’s full of asshats, Chinese and foreign alike. Move out to a smaller city, it’s far more interesting.

          • Probotector

            I always hear about expats who do fucked up things, but I’ve never seen them.

          • Irvin

            Good for you, ignorance is bliss, if you really want to see then go to more fucked up places.

          • Probotector

            It’s not ignorance, I really haven’t met any; I wish I had.

          • The “bad laowais” I knew never really did anything fucked up (that I knew of). We just got one or two every now and then that were obnoxiously refusing to participate in Chinese culture or otherwise just being dicks. This one guy wanted to be Jiaxing’s number one China veteran. You know, the guy who could take all the new, naive, ignorant laowai under his wing and introduce them to the ways of the Chinese and the many hidden gems of Jiaxing proper. I had been there a year or so more than he had, spoke a bit more fluently than he (not fluently, just closer to it than him), etc…and so out of his own principle he refused to listen to me when he had visa troubles. His visa ended up expiring and he either went home or moved elsewhere. Either way, I still sat upon my throne, made entirely of the bones and health of all those naive laowai who showed up before, gazing down upon my dominion as King of the Jiaxing Laowais.

          • The King is not necessarily the heart of the parties. Otherwise ask for me in Changchun and ask them if partying is the same after I left. ;)

          • When I left, Jiaxing was getting overrun with Euro trash and weeaboo rejects who hadn’t made it to, or couldn’t make it to Japan. Before that, it was mostly the good kind of “really enjoy traveling/living in weird countries” laowais.

          • I think pollution kicked me out of China. I didn’t mind Marco Polo wannabes. :)

          • ewf

            That’s because you’re it.

          • Probotector

            troll

    • Probotector

      More like zero.

    • Leo

      Well said. The racism in China is all the worse because there is in fact not even a word for “stereotypes.” They had to make one up because language learners from other countries kept asking why everyone was so racist.

      • Dave

        Interesting. Never heard that before.

        • nqk123

          you should some research.

          • anon101

            yeah, if you are stopped at the lights and someone rear ends you, you will be liable to pay for your car and probably most of the damage to their car.
            If you are driving and someone jumps over a road barrior and into the front of your car, you are liable and will have to pay for hospital bills, damage to car, and extra money to the person for not being able to work.

            lastly, if a mob forms and decides (without seeing the accident) that you were at fault, even with the police there, you may still take a beating, the police wont defend you. The mob will always be in favor of the Chinese person as ‘all easterners are rich and can afford to pay’.

      • Irvin

        The racism here is on a governmental and regulatory level, did you know americans can’t get driver license in china? but they can buy cars? one of them were asking what the fuck would they do with the car, the lady said “you can sell it”.

        The people here actually isn’t very racist, they’re usually helpful and friendly to foreigners. But that doesn’t mean shit if you’re treated unfair from a legal angle.

        • Probotector

          “The people here actually isn’t very racist”

          Really? I showed my students a picture of Lou Jing and they said “she’s ugly because she’s black”. A kid also asked me “why do European football teams have so many black players?” Please, there is definitely an air of racism in China.

          • Irvin

            I stand corrected, yes, people here have black phobia.

          • Punisher

            124 Chinese miners detained, allegedly abused by Ghanaian authorities

            http://shanghaiist.com/upload/2013/06/ghana-abuse-1.png

            http://shanghaiist.com/upload/2013/06/ghana-abuse-2.png

            Stupid chincks!!!!!

          • Probotector

            So this makes it okay to hate blacks?

          • Khanthology

            Stop being racist or you will get smacked like in this video:

          • Zappa Frank

            in truth chinese don’t like anyone, even themselves..

          • Nick in Beijing

            Very true.

            One of my students is in his mid thirties and is preparing to emigrate to Canada. He loves to play basketball but said he’s afraid of playing basketball in Canada because he is afraid he will meet a black person and then he can’t use the court anymore.

            Most of the rest are just content to walk on the other side of the street from black folks who walk around the city and from time to time ask me to ask my boss why they keep hiring black people to teach them (regardless of nationality).

        • Dave

          Foreigners can get Chinese driver’s licenses.

          • Irvin

            just what I saw at the immigration office, my friend from veneszula got one………..so maybe it’s just americans that can’t get them or maybe it’s a new law. Laws change all the time in china, you never know what is legal when.

          • No, we were very able to get them. A friend of mine got his with a few handshakes, dinner and karaoke with the instructor who wanted to practice his English.

          • Leo

            To me that is the same as not being able to get it. I’d rather die than suck up to some corrupt Chinese official. Of course a Chinese national would tell me this is just the Chinese way. No, its the corrupt way, guanxi is just an organized form of corruption, it is not unique to China

          • Well, he could have gotten it by the books, too. He just wanted it to be fun. Driving instructors are hardly a big bad Chinese official.

          • Leo

            Actually laws depend on the mood of the enforcement officer at any given time or which government official you are able to call to bail you out. You are also not supposed to run red lights or do “hit and runs” in China but they happen all the time. Oh and dont even THINK about getting in a car accident. As a foreigner hit by a Chinese person or vice versa, either way you are so SOL it is laughable.

          • anon101

            3 things.
            1) you need a work visa not a business visa,
            2) you either need to take the whole test or just do the theory part of the test if you have a native license.
            3) you need to be confident

          • BiggJ

            1 thing

            1) Your wifes uncle works at the DMV.

          • Nick in Beijing

            I am American. I have one.

        • Dave

          “The people here actually isn’t very racist, they’re usually helpful and friendly to foreigners.”

          Treating foreigners better is also racism. the goal is to treat them the same.

          Actually, the goal is to not even see any difference, but that’s one that the whole world is still working on.

          • Irvin

            It’s an unrealistic goal, to differentiate is part of our intelligences, being impartial while recognizing differences, that is equality.

          • Dave

            Fair enough. Hm, how to put this.

            When I was a kid, I had “brown” friends. I didn’t yet even know what race was! they seemed the same as me, bu their skin was a different color.

            So, sure, I recognized the difference between us. They were brown, I am pale. But I didn’t SEE any difference between us.

          • Irvin

            To be technically accurate, you didn’t MIND any difference you see.

          • Dave

            Guess so. That still seems to imply that I understood the differences, though.

            Anyway, I guess the point is that we’ll be better off once we think like children.

          • Irvin

            Kids are mean.

          • anon101

            LOL yeah, only problem when you are a kid and a ‘brown’ friend asks to borrow a pencil

            “sure what colour?”
            “skin color”
            “….”

          • Probotector

            This week the government came to evaluate the university I work in. All the students and staff have badges identifying them as either students or staff. I asked if foreign teachers will get a badge too, and I was told my face is my badge.

          • Irvin

            Hencefort you shall be known as………Darth BadgeFace! lol

    • Barney Rubble

      The only thing worse than being a foreigner in China is being chinese in China.

      • Probotector

        Are that many Chinese really upset with the way things are in China?

        • Irvin

          Yes, very very upset, have to take anti depressant but we’re still depressed because the drugs here are all fake.

          We can’t even get weed to get our depression down. fuck!

          • BiggJ

            They don’t need drugs….They get high on china…that’s all they need to stay happy. lol

          • Irvin

            fuck! please tell me their secret! I want to get high too and forget all my woes!

          • Barney Rubble

            13 years of chinese ‘history’ lessons is what you need

          • Irvin

            Fuck! that’s too high even for me.

          • Probotector

            Why are you depressed?

          • Irvin

            No weed.

          • Dude, weed is pretty easy to come by in China.

          • Irvin

            Not as easy as what I’m used to, my dealer was my classmate and all I had to do was call. Now I need to sniff around like a dog.

          • I had several friends living in Shanghai, so there was always someone who knew someone. The only time I ever bought from a local was this Xinjiang guy, suggested by a Japanese friend, in the second floor Muslim bachelor pad of some Xinjiang restaurant. The fear of “holy shit, what are you doing buying weed from a local” didn’t cross my mind until halfway through, but this guy rolled up the biggest spliff I had ever seen in my life so I felt a little better.

          • freshgreens213

            damn i need to talk to u when i get back. only time i blazed was when my cousin had a spliff rolled with one of those mini zigzags papes (prolly not even .2g), we walked down nanjing rd smoking and no one knew what it was we were smoking lol. but srsly…if the Chinese gov’t should sell weed instead of tabacco through their state factories, will quell the public and the public will like it lmao

          • Haha dude, Nanjing Rd is probably one of the places where you’re most likely to get caught. Shanghai police tend to know what weed looks and smells like, as do the locals…sometimes. In the smaller cities, at least when I was there, people just assumed it was some strange sort of laowai tobacco ritual, and we could roll up and smoke it pretty much anywhere. Of course we still exercised caution.

          • filabusta

            Its fun but i think they will realize what it is as time goes on and they watch foreign movies.

          • filabusta

            Xinjiang guys are pretty cool in my experience.

          • Nick in Beijing

            True, but tell that to the average Chinese person and they will start bleeding from the eyes in rage that you would claim China is so degenerate as to allow MARIJUANA on it’s clean streets!

          • oh yes you can!

          • filabusta

            Yeah man look harder. In GZ there are African guys on the side of the road openly trying to sell weed, heroin, etc…

          • Nick in Beijing

            Same in Beijing.

            Was walking around San Li Tun in the middle of the afternoon after a coffee and this tall skinny African dude walks up to me, right in the middle of the Village and asks in this super friendly tone if I would like to buy “any of his wonderful variety of quality drugs” with this big cheesy used car salesman smile. I said I was cool, but thanks anyway. He flashes a big white smile and whips out a business card with all his product, mobile phone number, address, and QQ number printed on it and tells me to call when I want to party, and mentions he has girls also if I need them.

            True story. Very funny

        • Barney Rubble

          Most alcoholics/junkies convince themselves they don’t have a problem, but nobody else would like to be them.

          • Probotector

            What’s that got to do with anything?

          • Barney Rubble

            There are a lot of Chinese who aren’t very upset by the system they are forced to endure… but to anyone looking in on their situation from the outside, they wouldn’t like to be in their shoes.

            I didn’t think that one would need explaining

          • Probotector

            Well, when you use a bizarre metaphor your meaning is kind of ambiguous.

            Anyway, I’d agree with you, but the point is, the Chinese don’t know any different, and in fact are conditioned to reject a different system.

            Still, I don’t see that they have that much to complain about anyway.

          • Opium911
    • POS

      Thats the difference, even Asian minorities are treated as window dressing of the Han state, non-East Asian peoples don’t even bother. USA has its issues but ANYONE can come here and become a citizen, a mayor, a senator, and president. These kids are clueless, self absorbed with state sanctioned perpetual victim syndrome. Asian Americans are amongst the most educated and prosperous American demographic.

    • donscarletti

      Fuck that man. Being occasionally treated half-way decent rather than like the human garbage that Chinese treat other Chinese as makes this country tolerable to live in sometimes.

    • JR

      China doesn’t propagate the world with how everyone of its citizens enjoy the basic freedom to be ignorant of other cultures, arrogant of their own, right to collect food stamps and bear arms despite obvious and deliberate misinterpretations of their own constitution.

      The Chinese that emigrate to the US become engineers and scientists. They actively contribute to building the State and make it more prosperous. Even then they encounter discrimination, esp by retards who can only get jobs teaching English in China. Hence the massive amount of underlying inferiority complex many westerners experience when they are in China, who thinks they’re supposed to be treated like Gods because they’re so used to having the cards stacked in their favor at home.

      Chinese are mostly a practical bunch. When they see through the intellectual worthlessness of certain members on this forum, they cast them out, and hence many western bloggers feel rejected and the need to vent and diss China to satisfy their egos. Instead of complaining (a favorite pastime of North Americans) maybe English “teachers” should be thankful that China would even hire them to begin with.

      • Dave

        “The Chinese that emigrate to the US become engineers and scientists.”

        And shop keepers, dry cleaners, and restaurateurs.

        • Nick in Beijing

          Gas station attendants, hotel cleaning and front desk staff, and…. wow… it’s starting to sound like they are actually allowed to integrate with American society by taking all kinds of normal jobs. Would be a wonder if this were allowed to happen in China.

          • Dave

            I think it’s actually illegal for a foreigner to get a job as a gas station attendant (etc.) in China. I have half a mind to try and test this.

            Racism and discrimination does exist in the US; and in some ways it is institutionalized. We look down on immigrants, often having them do jobs that we don’t like to do.

            But we let them in to do those jobs! We don’t require that they all be “foreign experts” or wealthy investors. Who is more discriminatory?

            “Oh, but China already has too many people…” Good excuse.

          • Nick in Beijing

            Hi Dave,

            I don’t know if you were agreeing with my point or disagreeing, to be honest. I was agreeing with your point.

          • Dave

            Going along with it.

            The thought of a laowai gas station attendant was so bizarre, even to me. It shouldn’t be, it’s perfectly normal where we come from.

  • QQmore

    343 people have signed the petition? Um… I could get more people to Like a photo of a monkey pooping into his own hand. Just saying…

  • Probotector

    Biden is an idiot, because he’s a Democrat and a liberal, but his words were correct.

    In any case, “wah”, “wah”, “the Chinese are angry!” “How dare you insult our Motherland!” Spare me.

  • MrT

    More proof America is imploding.
    Supernova status.
    You only got to listen the idiot Alex Jones to see the mess the US is in and how desperate they are to get out of it to the point of talking shit about about their self’s and others.

    Deflection.
    You had it good yanks just role over and die now.

    • Dave

      Not sure if trolling, or just very stupid.

      • MrT

        Just call me “Biden” and demand a apology.
        See what i did there??
        la

        • Probotector

          No?!

          • MrT

            Stupid la

          • Harddisc

            Useless trap and you caught no one, hihi!

          • MrT

            I caught you!

            Go defrag your self.

      • POS

        Probably both

    • herp if you derp

  • RagnarDanneskjold

    They are doubly indoctrinated: in Marxism from China and cultural Marxism in America. They are ready to run both countries.

    • Dave

      That doesn’t even make sense.

      Are you one of those that think “Marxism” means “anything I don’t like?”

  • lonetrey / Dan

    …. What was up with the “studying abroad” bullshit in the Chinese netizens’ comments section? I’ve met a LOT of foreign exchange students from China because they like talking to me, seeing as how I’m a good translator for English/Chinese (I am quasi-fluent in both? Idk.).

    Not a single one has ever given off that “Oh, I’m so posh”/rich/government type feeling before. They were all rather nice.

    • I met a lot of Chinese students who were very friendly (at least when you’re around haha). However, most of them kind of just stick to the Chinese groups and never venture out much, don’t try to make friends. It was easy for me because I, too, was decent enough at Chinese to have conversations in it. I couldn’t talk about quantum physics or anything, but still. There were quite a few who said one or two of their parents worked in the government, but I think the main similarity them all (at least all of the ones I ever met) was that money was never really in short supply.

    • POS

      I’ve found them to be generally quite groupish, unable to break out of the Chinese enclave. Of course Japanese and Koreans are prone to the same thing. Thais generally do to but tend to congregate into BKK and non-BKK students, although they also make more local friends. Chinese seem to be the most herdish in my experience.

    • Leo

      It is not uncommon for Chinese students to keep their background secret when living abroad. A series of scandals on Chinas Weibo (micro blogging) sites recently have revealed the sons and daugters of rich officials living luxurious lives abroad -many times they end up being Chinese students at American universities- and this has fueled a paranoia amongst officials in China who don’t want their wealth revealed. If you have noticed your Chinese study abroad friends playing down their parents jobs this is probably why because EVERYONE in China has some connection with weibo.

    • KAMIKAZIPILOT

      I think this “studying abroad” stereotype from Chinese mainlanders stems in part from insecurty and jealousy towards the Chinese studying abroad. They know they’ll never have the opportunity to venture abroad so the next best thing to do is criticize those that do, calling them traitors, government offsring, etc.

      I went to a university that had loads of international students from all over Asia and also some elsewhere, but mostly from Asia. Mainly Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Some of my best friends to this day are CHinese students I met while in university. And yes most were really nice and welcoming towards me and also fairly humble. It didn’t matter if I was Japanese or couldn’t speak their native language. Compare this to a lot of mainland CHinese I’ve met over the years and there definitely is a difference between the average CHinese student studying at a U.S. university and an average mainlander.

  • radbab

    I just want to see the “your ancestors” vs “my ancestors” death match, which will decide who’s right. Sounds like a really good way to settle the dispute

    • Dave

      “But, you see, their ancestors have the will of the warrior. Therefore, the battle is already over. The winner? China! Rematch? You lose again! Had enough? I thought so!”

    • My italian grandpa would have kicked his Chinese grandpa’s ass in no-time.

  • linette lee

    China lacks

    1)open and fair legal system

    2)vibrant venture capital markets

    3)innovative thinking

    Which one is not true?

    As a matter of fact, many other countries don’t promote innovative thinking among their students in school and it’s not only China.

    USA and some Europe countries have more innovations and inventions. Other countries copy them and not just China.

    • BiggJ

      “USA and some Europe countries have more innovations and inventions. Other countries copy them and not just China.”

      And that’s what keeps them ahead of the game.

      • linette lee

        Unfortunately countries like Japan and South Korea have been stealing the USA innovations and inventions without spending a dime on research. Including the USA military technologies as well.
        USA is being taken for advantage of. Research are extremely expensive.

        • Irvin

          Who’s that ugly fucking lady in the picture? FUCK!

          • YourSupremeCommander

            damn!!!!!!

          • Irvin

            That’s what I thought.

        • Bob Loblaw

          Yop Linette, I don’t know about Korea but I suggest you get your facts straight before trolling about Japan.

          On the average, Japan spends 3.2 % of it’s GDP into R&D. (3.5 % for the US) and rank just just behind the US in the number of patents per year.

          Japan also exports more patents than they import technology from other countries, with the US&A being their biggest client (40% of the total patents exportations).
          For instance Japan-made composite materials play an important part in the construction of Boeing aircrafts.

          About the part when you imply that they are stealing US technology, they are actually America’s biggest client in buying patents.

          Buying as in using currency to acquire aforementioned patents. As opposed to using ninjas to infiltrate the US patent and trademark office.

          You should try to draw a distinction between your hatred toward the archipelago dwellers and what is really going on. Cheers.

          • Comebackkid13

            Linette Lee getting burned again. Allow me to indulge in pettiness, but I found it quite amusing.

          • Jimney Cricket

            ooooh….super Anti-Japan smackdown

        • Reila90

          This is wrong. Most of US military tech today are stolen tech from the Nazi Germany and Japan after US won the WW2.
          From Stealth Jet, Super sonic engine, Hi tech Sub marine, Hi tech Tanks, etc..

          • Did we steal military tech from Japan? I thought we just acquired medical research from them.

          • Reila90

            Google “Japanese Super Sub”. This technologies later use for US sub marine to able launch missile with nuclear warhead.
            US got hella lot of new technologies after they won WW2. It is enough to save billion of dollars and many years of research time.

          • I know the US got a lot of tech from WWII, but all I think is that it was mainly German. The Japanese Super Sub…the only thing I read about US interaction with it was the capture and inspection of some, and their subsequent scuttling because the Soviets wanted a look at them. I don’t know of anything else in the US arsenal that’s similar to that, and didn’t find any information that suggests these lead to US developing sub-launched ballistic missiles or cruise missiles.

          • linette lee

            That was another horrific war crime done by Japan in WWII.
            USA acquired data from the Japanese research experiments performed on live human.

            “Unit 731 was a covert biological and chemical warfare research and development unit of the Imperial Japanese Army that undertook lethal human experimentation during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) and World War II. It was responsible for some of the most notorious war crimes carried out by Japanese personnel. Unit 731 was based at the Pingfang district of Harbin, the largest city in the Japanese puppet state ofManchukuo (now Northeast China).”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

          • bert

            Retard! If they lost then it became US rightful property, not stolen. Haha! What a maroon. This ‘tech’ came from humans, German humans.

          • Jimney Cricket

            Ya, ist be timen to be cooken again, hans

          • cb4242

            How stupid, US still has more patents than any other country. US has always been a country that has a strong history when it comes to innovation, having said that, every country copies something. China invented the Gun powder, but the US makes better missiles and bombs. We invented the car, but the Germans and Japanese make better cars. technology always goes back and forth. China right now is trying to steal our stealth technology. Look what happened after SEAL Team 6 captured OBL, one stealth helicopter crashed and when China heard about the downed Chopper from the Pakistanis, China went to that country so fast to find out how the thing works. We have stolen technology during the war and made it better. China is pouring billions in to steal from us, they are trying, trying real hard, but it’s a bit more difficult for them.

          • Reila90

            I don’t think you really grasp my point.

          • cb4242

            Oh, I do, I really do, but I don’t think you do.

          • Reila90

            ok tie.

      • linette lee

        China is one the world richest most powerful nation now. China really need to start getting into the game. If any countries can spend billions of dollar annually on researches for inventions and innovations, it would be China and USA. They should work on researches on cleaning pollution in the environment. Invent cleaner energy. Take care of global warning.

        • Probotector

          A clash of ideologies means they on’t work together.

          • linette lee

            I know many Chinese university students and graduates working in science research labs in USA universities and companies. Many Chinese students like to do research and work in the lab. They are good with that. It’s like the head of team is a white dude, but all the researchers are actually Chinese or Indians.

          • Probotector

            That has nothing to do with Sino-American relations. Americans want the expertise of the Chinese and Indian students; the Chinese just want a foothold into American research and technology.

          • Jimney Cricket

            Yes. We tell them what to research and watch them so they don’t (a) fall asleep between 12 and 2pm or (b) rape the nearest female coworker. hahahahahaha

        • Reila90
          • BiggJ

            China just steals or copies things. Just because they make solar panels for other country don’t mean they are innovative. China is set up to manufacture existing products. There is nothing wrong with that. That is just how they operate. Someone has to do it.

          • Reila90

            I never said anything that relates in your comment. What is your point? Antagonize?

          • POS

            Wumao yourself more? I’ll pay you 50 cents.

          • bert

            Too bad the pollution in BJ prevents them from being used here.

          • Jimney Cricket

            FYI…China is under investigation for “dumping” huge amounts of solar products onto the European market.

        • MrT

          Yea the EU just blocked China exports of clean energy because they want to keep the prices high.
          You pay more for green in the EU and US.
          Big scam.
          Go consult your boss for a reply.

          • moody

            If Europe and the US were to play “the game” by the same set of rules applied by China for it’s domestic market on foreign companies and imports.
            the world you know would have been very different.

            “keep the prices high” ???? moron

          • MrT

            waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you called me a moron.
            actually sound like you just re quoting the news.
            No French wine for you!

          • moody

            but but :-s i promise i ll be good

          • MrT

            Some Chinese wine good now so who needs the French!

          • moody

            You can’t be talking about that made in China piss poor red.
            The Chinese don’t need that really, they ve been buying several domains in France already.
            As for needing the French, who would give you lessons on just about anything all the while totally ignoring our wrong doings if we were not around.

          • Jimney Cricket

            Chinese wine tastes like gasoline with red food dye.

          • epic WTF

          • MrT

            you need to find a good vintage.

    • Reila90

      What is wrong is in education system. There is little emphasis on creative thinking, unlike education systems in other societies, such as those in the United States.
      The education system in China is too specialised and rigid. It is emphasize an indication of students’ skills in using rote learning and memorization to ONLY prepare for a certain style of competition or examination but NOT of their ability to think critically and creatively.

      • linette lee

        I absolutely agreed. Everything is dead memorization. Just tons of information fed by the China school system to the students.

    • MrT

      you are posting for who?
      Its certainly not from your self.

      • linette lee

        Dear Mr T, I think you have been living in China for too long. It’s time for you to go back to London and have a nice vacation. ;)

        • MrT

          waaaaaaaaaaaaaa i went back last year, felt like a foreigner.
          Couldn’t function correctly,

          Streets were full of drop outs and homeless drinking/drugging them self’s to death.(like HK)
          Sharp exit back to here and life.
          waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
          I want to go Bhutan.

    • Jeffli

      1)open and fair legal system ->

      the legal system in China is a farce! It is an excuse for financial extortion.

      2)vibrant venture capital markets ->

      possibly but too controlled by govt. and lacking one iota of ethics. also an excuse for financial extortion.

      3)innovative thinking ->

      definitely not.

      its all been “technology transfer”, From 1400 AD to 1911 AD China was technologically bankrupt. Since then its a matter of copy the west. Chinese students go overseas to study with the primary intention of migrating thats all.

      in key areas of “first world development” they are 30 to 50 behind : Aerospace, Medicine, Micro electronics. IT, it is all supported by “the West”!

      regarding the arts….. 2D water colors and scribbling doesn’t cut it This is what Europe was doing before the renaissance and ancient Rome, ancient Greece, ancient India already had some sort of developed mathematics (Euclid, Pythagoras, Aristotle etc.)

      All china had was bastardised Buddhism and confucianism.

      “the west” is a mixture of cultures and languages (Latin, Greek, French and other languages) China’s culture and language has been static for 700 years. China has “the great four innovations” but thats all.

      Steam power
      internal combustion engine
      penicillin
      atom power
      electricity
      flight
      medicine
      telephony
      radio
      Chemistry – periodic table and electron theory
      theory of evolution
      communism (lol)
      free market

      All these things and more are NOT Chinese NOR are they Asian. It is all “the west” and to some point neighbours to the west.

      So yeah, I think the west is more free thinking than Asia, Biden could have chosen better words.

    • bert

      yep, China sucks.

    • louis_v1234

      Really? But how come Google or Wikipedia search tells me that the ethnicity of the people who made those inventions are not white monkeys whereas they are from Japan, China, India, Korea, Arabic peninsula, Iran, Egypt and even there is a proof of white monkeys copying lot of technologies and architectural stuffs from Chinese, Indians, Muslims, Egyptians, Africans.

      Stop your bull shitting and read history before making any false assumptions.

      • Nick

        Indians, Arabs and Egyptians are all white. Try not listing white people as examples of intelligence, as you insult them.

  • BiggJ

    It seems like he is just saying America is great because of the ingenuity and free thinking and uses the example of china to say that’s not how we want you to be. They need free thinking innovative people to get ahead. That is how America is what is today. I don’t know….I don’t think he meant anything bad by what he said. What he said I think was used as an example for what he said before. And what he said is not a lie or anything.

    • The Enlightened One

      I think everyone already knew his message, hence them studying abroad and not in China, right?

      It’s like Captain Obvious coming to your graduation ceremony and saying stuff we all know at a very inappropriate time about a group of people that came to embrace a part of educational system. You shouldn’t be like… “and remember boys and girls… talking to you Chinese people, your country isn’t as free and isn’t as innovative as America… so don’t forget that…”.

      • BiggJ

        I see nothing wrong with using that as an example. He talks about them being cutting edge and all that and uses china as an example of how not to be.

        • The Enlightened One

          China is your drunk homeless uncle? Haha.

          Well, I think a better comparison would be like your rich-jerk uncle from one side of the family goes to a special event like your birthday party when you are a kid.

          He gets up and gives you a nice gift and starts a big speech about how you should grow up and be more like him and his side of the family. That you live in a small, crappy house in a bad part of town because your parents didn’t work hard enough. Don’t be like that drunk homeless Uncle, don’t be a failure and drop out. He talks about how his gift is the most expensive and best gift you got because he is awesome, rich and better than everyone else, including you.

          Now, this may all be true… but your Uncle certainly picked a shitty time and delivery method to get his point across.

  • BiggJ

    I reading about this a few months ago and he mentions it in his speech too. Real time speech translations. I think by 2020 they will have something you can use on pc to talk and write to people from any language. All you English teachers better have a backup plan. lol

    • Irvin

      With the way siri is working now, it’s a long way before speech recognition is perfected much less real time translation.

      • BiggJ

        Technology keeps advancing faster and faster. In at least 10 years they should have something like that.

        • Irvin

          I donno about that……….it took us a while to put wheels on our luggage.

          • BiggJ

            I think so. You can already get words translated by your voice. It’s not that far off from doing conversations. 10 years should be enough time to pretty much perfect it.

  • Jobjed

    “In a nation that cannot think different, you are unable to challenge orthodoxy, because change only comes from challenging orthodoxy” Joe Biden, 2013.

    “We should probably do things differently from now on and leave the orthodox methods behind” Deng Xiaoping, 1979.

    What do we know?
    – We know Joe Biden said people of “a nation” (China) cannot think differently.
    – We know Deng Xiaoping was Chinese.
    – We know Deng Xiaoping thought differently.
    – We know Joe Biden is full of crap.

    • Dave

      Deng Xiaoping says that always thinking the same way was is stupid: Good

      Biden sayis that always thinking the same way was is stupid: Bad

      China can’t take outside criticism, even when they know it is true.

      • Jobjed

        Biden said “The key to all this is the ability to think different, but in one nation, you cannot think different”

        So basically he’s saying Chinese people don’t have the ability to think differently. He did not say “always thinking the same way is stupid”.

        I expect a prominent politician to not make such stupid generalisations. He just generalised all Chinese to be idiots who can’t think differently.

        By the way, what exactly did you write? I can’t fully understand you with all the spelling and grammatical mistakes.

        • “I expect a prominent politician to not make such stupid generalisations”

          Now that we’re talking about being stupid:

          “Being rich is glorious” Deng Xiaoping 1976.

          Whole China runs under that banner since then. Now tell me which Chinese thinks different than that. Hm… there are some but surely very fucking hard to find.

          So China, according to you, it’s a big stupid generalization. it’s funny how Chinese make themselves look even worse when trying to cover up their own mistakes, which is a natural habit for them: Save face.

        • Dave

          You and many others) must misunderstand what he meant by “cannot.”

          He means that Chinese people cannot think differently or breathe free because of government restrictions, not because Chinese people are morons.

          The Chinese people are held down by their government. Held back. Stifled.

          Not free.

          Only ones that have allegiance to the government would deny that, and pretend that Chinese are as able to be free and innovate as those kids in the west.

          (And don’t mock someones spelling or grammar when you are afraid he has a better argument. It makes you look petty at best, and anal retentive at worst. Argue ideas, or don’t bother to argue.)

  • POS

    People will cry about anything, what a bunch of ignorant children. Spent that much time in the US and still so blind.

    • garbo

      Makes you wonder why they go at all.

  • POS

    Level 10 butthurt achieved.

    • Irvin

      Yes, humans have small butt holes, we’re easily hurt there.

      • POS

        Especially when a gutter oil based diet ensures you dont have solid stool for months on end and then you go to the evil imperialist running dog lands and suddenly you get real protein and fiber. That sir, causes major butt hurt.

  • I don’t think Biden is stupid. I think he knows exactly what he’s doing, and knows that what he says will upset some people. I just don’t think he gives a fuck. Biden rules.

    • YourSupremeCommander

      Exactly, you dont think a head of state speech would have gone thru a few dozen people for review and proof-reading first?

      • Irvin

        Bush’s speeches didn’t.

        Edit: unless he also didn’t give a fuck about sounding like a moron.

        • Probotector

          Well they were, he just couldn’t say them properly.

      • I feel like these presidents/vice presidents that are given a hard time would actually be a lot of fun to hang out with. Biden, Bush Jr, Clinton (oh god definitely Clinton), etc…it doesn’t matter what your political ideals are…just imagine sitting there having a beer or 12 with them.

    • linette lee

      Biden will be famous in the Chinese internet. He should go to China CCTV to make speech. :)

      • I liked the one when he called the custard selling man a “smart ass” haha
        Biden took up office and didn’t lose any of his human-ness.

        • linette lee

          say it like it is…that is his philosophy. ;)

      • The Enlightened One

        Haha.

        He might get “harmonized” or “suicided” in the middle of the speech.

        “Oh shit, a stage light fell on Biden’s head… now he’s dead… such a shame…”

        or

        “Oh crap… the stage and podium collapsed into a sinkhole connected with the water treatment plant and he was boiled alive… hey it happens… in China.”

        • linette lee

          “Oh shit, a stage light fell on Biden’s head”

          The china police will then investigate and claim they didn’t find anything suspicious. It was clearly a suicide.
          hahaha…lol ;)

          • The Enlightened One

            Hahaha… clearly a suicide… maybe it would go something like this…

            “Chinese officials have investigated into the matter and it was very clear that Biden was depressed and regretful about his comments made earlier during a University speech towards China.

            So guilty that he setup one of the lights on the stage to fall directly on his head and kill him during a speech. Further investigations show a suicide letter written by Biden himself:

            “Hello, how are you?

            I are fine thanks, u? I is really sad. I speak bad things China. Now, I die. I love you, see you later.

            Signed,

            Biden, Joe”

            Chinese official: “The evidence speaks for itself in perfect English.”

          • linette lee

            hahahhahaha…..you are so crazy. ;)

  • Rick in China

    First of all, what did he say that is exactly so false and disparaging against any ethnic Chinese he may have been addressing?

    “China’s problems are immense, and they lack much of what we have, such as an open and fair legal system, vibrant venture capital markets, as well as innovative thinking”

    Great. So? Waaa…… Wa he said CHINA in there, so whatever follows – MUST BE AMERICAN PROPAGANDA. WAAAAAA.

    If you’re crying, and denouncing this speech as being “anti-Chinese” or some other bullshit, and implying someone of “his stature” shouldn’t make political comments, realize this: He’s a fucking politician. Not just A politician, but a VICE PRESIDENT. The Second most powerful politician (arguably) in that nation. How can you expect him not to mention anything with any political agenda?

    Next, for all the cry-babies looking at details of a speech that was not intended for YOU, but you’re a mainland Chinese “feeling hurt” because of these comments……are you implying China’s politicians don’t make any remarks about America or other nations in similar speeches?

    Are you seriously f’ing joking? How is this even news? Aside from a bunch of angry contribute-nothing-to-this-world babies making it an issue, what exactly IS the issue?

    Rant more cupcakes, the world isn’t full of the ‘harmonious China is the greatest’ verbiage your mind believes as an absolute, and when you actually get a job and live independently in this world expect a gigantic SLAP in the face…also known as reality.

    • donscarletti

      Man, I previously looked at Biden and thought “what a bland, unimpressive dude, Obama probably picked him simply to not be a threat to him.” After this speech I totally want my corporate underlings to go to a lecture taught by him.

    • garbo

      How many times has Chinese leaders said bad things about the US. It makes me laugh how hypocritical Chinese people can be. If they don’t like it stay in China. We have free speech outside China. Brainwashed morons.

      • Mighty

        Ding! (the word ‘Hypocrisy’ always flashes in the back of my mind whenever I read something like this).

    • Khanthology

      Hey Pasty Legs, the only one on here being a cry baby is you. and don’t reply to me with another essay you fairy.

  • Chinese

    I suspect it’s a publicity stunt.

    What Biden said is (pretty much) true, are these guys all living in denial?

    • Chinese

      If it’s not a publicity stunt, then it’s a tragedy.

    • sdf

      Your mother is a slut, what I said is (pretty much) true, are you living in denial? jk.

  • Irvin

    Wow! they are censoring post on chinasmack now, my post with 12 thumbs up just got deleted.

  • Mighty

    This is nothing new. Just another case of overreaction to the truth. Maybe Biden should have worded it in a more diplomatic way but he’s known for gaffes long before his nomination as a VP. Yeah, I voted for him so suck it up!

    * It’ll be awesome to hang out, for a day, with Biden and Prince ” “If you stay here (China) much longer, you will go home with slitty eyes.” Philip.

  • Even if the US is “the police of the world”, China is still the big prototype of where our world might be heading to. Don’t think, don’t speak, don’t listen.

    A whole bunch of book-memorizing experts claim the unfairness of some white politician’s speech at a place where they assume it should be exactly as the place where they came from., it’s obvious, they’re asking him to shut up! what’s next? “if you don’t like it, just leave?”

    Just like Mike said, instead of doing something to show he was wrong, them writing that letter demanding an apology only confirms what Biden said.

  • Daniel

    “innovative thinking” well, must comment that. If you look at what kind of people work in sillicon valley, most of the phd´s there are asians and many are going back to their own countries like India and China where they are starting to get well paid. In the future, USA will lack brilliant scientists because american school is retarded. Here is the Japanese scientist talking about the “innovative thinking” in USA.

    • USA will never lack of brilliant scientists. But it lacks of brilliant politicians as we speak, same as any other countries in the world.

      • john roberts53

        true mate

    • linette lee

      But these Asian students and scientists were mostly educated in USA universities.

      What USA going to do? Hope China and India continue to mess up on human rights and other gov’t laws so they will never return back to china or india to live.

      • Daniel

        Well, you dont get “genious visa” to come to US unless you already are educated in another country. Therefore your argument is invalid.

        • You can apply for the H1B visa after graduating from an American university. I use to file tons of those for new international graduates at the end the semester.

      • Reila90

        “But these Asian students and scientists were mostly educated in USA universities.” see @ 1:25 He said “foreign born”.

        If you see current trajectory where 3rd world countries are headed, these nations are moving progressively while countries like USA and Europe remains conservative.

        So China and India will not continue to mess up. But gradually mature.

        • India produces way more engineers than the US (not sure about scientists), yet they have to outsource a lot of their engineering jobs because a large portion of their graduates are actually not hiring quality. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703515504576142092863219826.html

          I assume China is better about this.

          • nqk123

            India and China are suppose to produces more in everything. 1.241 and 1.344 billions people. US 313.9 millions.

          • Right, but the point is how many quality, actually-skilled graduates they produce. Quality over quantity.

          • nqk123

            I agree with what you commented. China and India have a robotic style of teaching. And both nations are now realizing that. US on the other, are a bit out of focus.

        • Jimney Cricket

          Hahahahha. China and India will gradually mature… Check out the “trajectory” over the past 5000 years. These countries won’t mature. The people that have some brain leave China and India for Developed countries and the retards get left behind to slowly destroy the country.

      • MrT

        US human rights are good yea?

    • POS

      Michio Kaku IS American numbnuts. Thats the point, the US adsorbs the worlds best and brightest who form international bridges to their home countries, its guanxi on an international level, and its what makes America strong.

      • linette lee

        Immigrants from all over the world built America. They contribute and make USA strong. That is why multicultural and diversity is a good thing. Everybody bring something to the table. You go America!

        • MrT

          yea this is why there is war all over the planet, mostly started by the US.
          How many forums a day you post this brainwashed crap on now? I lost count.

          • There’s war all over the US because of multiculturalism and diversity? Or because immigrants built the US?

          • MrT

            Gang wars all over the US because of multiculturalism and diversity.

            The Arab long long spring, now based on multiculturalism, different groups all fighting for the same rights and patch of land.(US backing who ever on what ever day)

            Not really working out.

            Meanwhile economies collapse because of all the wasted time and effort to bring US style Democracy world wide which clearly does not work..

            Meanwhile China plods on getting stronger and i walk the streets not worrying about being mugged by multiculturalism diversity or bullets flying past my head.
            Go US Go US Go US
            and die.

          • What about the other multicultural countries? Canada has crime, sure, and gangs…but as multicultural as they also are, shouldn’t there be more violence, and Canada starting wars? I don’t think multiculturalism is the source of all of this trouble you speak of.

          • Nick in Beijing

            I think he is being facetious to try to rouse a response. How often does he comment seriously on things?

          • MrT

            I agree.

          • Nick in Beijing

            I agree with your agreement.

          • Probotector

            No there are gangs and racial tensions in other multicultural countries. It’s not just an American thing.

          • Dave

            The violence and crime typically come from social inequality. America is more unequal than Canada.

          • nickhz

            im from canada and there is plenty of gang violence. not at the same reate as the u.s but it is still there… especially in the larger cities and growing more and more all the time. canada is a very safe country and it is no comaprisson to the u.s but if it keep going like it is it will not take long to get out of control.

          • Yeah that’s the point I was about to get to

          • Jimney Cricket

            Trying to picture Canadian Gangs and keep getting a group of teenagers dressed like Bryan Adams. Can’t stop laughing

          • Probotector

            I agree with you on this.

          • nqk123

            not sure about this. gang war do happen, but only in certain area. Usually the larger cities in US. also, i found it kinda funny about asian gangs. apparently, they’re gangster with really good grades and quite a few of them are from middle income and rich family.

          • MrT

            sorry? The US is based on gang war fare.All of it.

            You know after the 2nd World War, Korea, Vietnam a lot of the service men formed gangs to make a living.

            Flying tigers are who now?

            China is just based on taking you for money with out the use of bullets, granted some people die and suffer still but its a far cleaner method and i aint got to worry walking about. (apart from the scooters)

          • nqk123

            I think you are talking about the first generation (back then racism was pretty big, so forming gang make sense). Not too sure about the later generations. I think later generation are less likely to join gang. But that really depend on their surrounding.

          • Mighty

            Sounds more like the ex military men who started motorcycle clubs that later morphed into bike gangs.

          • So we should stop multiculturalism and clean up our countries of those unwanted minorities? Last time people tried to do that, it ended up in wars. World War II, for example. Or even just that dude in Norway bombing Oslo and shooting up a bunch of children. So, I think what causes the wars or idiot racists, on all sides, and not the multiculturalism itself.

          • Probotector

            So by implication, do you think all cultures are equal?

          • I really do not see anything I said that implies that or the opposite. But in what sense do you mean “equal”? Do I think that my culture is superior to anyone else’s? No. Do I think anyone else’s culture is superior to mine? No.

          • Unless you consider things like “Nazism” to be a culture. I would call it a subculture, though.

          • Mighty

            If you do it leads to genocide. Maybe not to that extreme but it certainly heads toward that direction under the right conditions.

          • Probotector

            How exactly?

          • Mighty

            I need to clarify that it was to Whiser’s “Do I think that my culture is superior to anyone else’s? Do I think anyone else’s culture is superior to mine?”.

            I’m thinking Rwanda, Sudan, and what may only be the beginning in Iraq between the Sunnis and Shiites. When one culture, ethnic, or religion has been suppressed for a period and once the opportunity comes to reverse that control it usually leads to ‘pay back’ with passion and extreme hate.

          • MrT

            yea that was to do with the Germans wanting rid of the jews yea?

            And what did the Jews to straight after that in Palestine.

            The same.
            Seems people cant get along.

          • MrT

            unless you got a government like China that drops down on ya like a ton of sht when you try to start something.
            Far better system, nip it in the bud before its goes crazy.

          • Les Battersby

            No but you live behind iron bars and doors to keep out the bad men who will thieve anything should they get the chance.

          • MrT

            yea i agree its a lot safe in China.
            I don’t need a gun under my pillow.

        • POS

          And the US (generally, there is the wanker class of KAMIKAZEPILOTS and the occasionally disgruntled Hidden Harmonies ABC types) welcomes them, its not a road without bumps, but personally I am glad to hear that East Asians have become the largest immigrant group coming to the US. Culturally it is a good mesh with economic and cultural effects that benefit the US greatly, and also its relations with East Asia.

      • KAMIKAZIPILOT

        Shouldn’t you be out on a ledge somewhere. How’s your PTSD treating you? I hear Zoloft works wonders in treating PTSD.

        • POS

          Is that all you got, little man with an identity crisis? Hows your victim mentality going, I heard Zoloft works wonders for sand in the vagina, fucking whiney twat.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            C’mon baby, if you’re gonna insult me at least know what I’m about. So Zoloft treats your PTSD and vagina, well congrats, you killed two birds with one stone. Have fun dying for your country twink.

          • POS

            Inferiority complex is strong in this one. I wonder what “your country” is, certainly you seem like a small bitter man unable to assimilate into the US who wraps himself in shroud of victimhood as a defense mechanism. Let me guess, when you were FoB some blonde dude brah in California kicked sand in your face at the beach and ran off with your sister and its been butt hurt ever since.

            Perhaps you can join the sandy vagina club over at Hidden Harmonies with the other self hating Asian-American social rejects. Just don’t tell them you’re Japanese, they really hate the 日鬼子。I, on the other hand, find Japan lovely, and the women folk quite kind :)

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Looks like you have an inferiority complex towards anyone with a penis and a brain. DO I make your pussy wet? Does my avatar scare you? Are you afraid of a 4’3″ asian midget? Completely wrong on everything about me. Actually I don’t really like China but the women seem to love me, sorry if you can’t score anything, even shemales won’t touch you. You really are a insecure twink, I feel the anger in you slowly boiling over so you play internet tough guy, since you’re a coward in real life. But really you should get that PTSD treated before you suddenly decide to kill yourself one day.

          • POS

            They’re not midgets they’re ‘small people’, didn’t bother with the rest. Damn racist midget.

          • Khanthology

            group hug you guys, lets all end racism one hug at a time.

          • Mighty

            Damn Kahn Bro, you is gay. But I’m all for an end to racism.

          • Khanthology

            you too mighty, give your Khan a hug. Say No to Hate.

          • Mighty

            >:D<

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Actually they’re “little people” I was just dumbing down my comment for you. C’mon you aren’t fooling anyone, I know and you know that you read my whole post, you just can’t resist. Saying “didn’t bother with the rest” surely means you did.

          • POS

            I won’t match you in a political correctness dual, that requires genuine doucheyness. Keep grudgin little man, keep that inferiority complex strong!

            —-Anatomy of the inferiority complex

            Confidently knowing that Usain Bolt can run faster than you can is not the same as feeling inferior. True inferiority complex has us feeling:

            We should be as good as others.

            We are not as good as others, but we don’t really know why that is; a generalized feeling of inadequacy not based on rational judgements.

            In a world in which we are on the one hand encouraged to buy stuff because we’re “worth it” whilst simultaneously being force-fed airbrushed perfection, it’s easy for someone with a pre-existing inferiority complex to feel worse.

            It might be you were repeatedly told you weren’t good enough by a parent (one woman I know was repeatedly told by her mother she was the “ugliest girl in the street” and no one liked her). Some people were constantly compared to other people: “Why can’t you be more like your sister!” Other people feel inferior because they are perfectionists and feel that anything less than perfection is inadequate.

            Whatever the reasons for inferiority complex, here are a few ideas to help.

            1) Get specific

            As I said, we can know we’re inferior in some ways. If you find yourself feeling inferior, ask yourself: “Okay, exactly who do I feel inferior to?” Narrow it down.

            Emotional thinking is always sloppy, so tighten it up to make it less emotional. There are close to seven billion people on this planet (last time I counted). What kind of person do you feel inferior to? Rich people? Good looking people? Very academic people? People you view as accomplished? Most people aren’t these things.

            Now get even more specific; name names to yourself. “Actually, I feel inferior to Bob down the street.” Why? How, specifically, is Bob better than you?

            So from ‘feeling inferior’ we’ve gone to ‘feeling inferior to specific types’ to ‘feeling inferior to Bob down the street’. Now ask yourself in what ways Bob isn’tsuperior to you. Does he have your humility? Wit? Life experience? If we are too narrow with what constitutes ‘good’ or ‘successful’, then we’re more likely to come off feeling worse. Believe me, ‘Bob’ has issues of his own.

            2) Drop the mime

            No one has written on his tombstone: “Here lies Ralph; he was quite like Bob.” All Ralph can be is Ralph (or the best possible version of himself); he ain’t ever gonna be Bob. Wanting to be someone else is okay(ish) when you’re fifteen. But how can an impersonator ever be true to themselves? Being inspired by someone else means assimilating some of their traits into who you are. It doesn’t mean trying to have their exact same life.

            Inferiority complexes thrive on people wanting to be someone they’re not. This doesn’t mean we have to limit ourselves as to what we can do, but it does mean that we can get by much better when we don’t try to be someone else.

            3) Dare to be different

            Life is much less restrictive now in westernized counties. In the ’50s, you were expected to be married (perhaps in your early twenties); to have kids and a ‘respectable career’ (grave robbers need not apply); to have short hair or longer hair, depending on gender; to dress ‘properly’ and have all the right opinions. We haven’t cast aside all these norms and I’m not suggesting they are all bad, but people are much freer now to live a bit differently.

            No one is a ‘failure’ if they are unmarried at forty (or eighty), or if they don’t have kids or a traditionally professional career. Not in terms of current societal norms; though your parents may still have these retrospective expectations which may have influenced you. But the kind of thinking that prompts: “Oh no! I’m forty-five now. I should have a mortgage, a partner, 2.4 children! I should be like how other people are!” is a trap. If you really want these things, that’s one thing; but if you only feel they are expected of you, then remember that your life can only really be lived by you.

            4) What would make you feel as good as others?

            Recall that in Hans Christian Anderson’s tale ‘The Ugly Duckling’, the young swan felt a failure as a duckling because, well, it wasn’t really a duckling, was it? How could it be a successful something that it was not?

            If you feel inferior, imagine for a moment how you’d need to be to not feel inferior. What would you need to look like, to own, to be doing? Now reflect: Would all of that really be you? Or would it be like a swan posing as a duck?

            For a taste of this exercise, click on the free audio session below.

            5) Beware utopian thinking

            People who feel inferior tend to think in ‘all or nothing’ ways (any emotion will drive us to do this). ‘Utopianism’ is a type of this simplified emotional thinking. It’s a kind of ‘if only’ thought.

            “If only my nose was straighter…then I’d be confident and happy!”

            “If only I earned ten thousand more a year…then my life would be good!”

            “If only I could be exactly the same as Bob…then I’d feel great about my/himself!”

            Life doesn’t work like that. Because much of what we feel inferior about is relatively superficial; the non-superficial part of us will always feel left wanting by external band-aid remedies. Sure, you might have more confidence with a straighter nose for a while, but you are much more likely to forget about comparing yourself to others (either favourably or unfavourably) when you live your life in a sustainable way that utilizes your real core character strengths, values, and personal ideas.

            As the explorer and translator Sir Richard Burton wrote:

            Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause;
            He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            WTF? ROTFL! Were you raped as a child or something like that? Such anger from a little girlie man, LOL. You really hold an online grudge like a woman don’t you. Inferiority complex huh? Says the ass-raped nationalist who always seeks my post out and responds to me FIRST (except this thread) just to prove his online manhood that I stole from him a few months back because he has none in real life. If I make you shit your panties so much just cover your eyes when you see my username and avatar. Just admit it, the little asian guy in my avatar scares you, doesn’t it. Stay angry my friend, it’ll do wonders for your blood pressure.

            P.S. I just shitted on your face yet again, can you taste the ramen I had last night? LOL, see I’m funnier than you too.

          • POS

            I just call out people who are fucking retarded, I generally don’t post much otherwise. You are fucking retarded about 99% of the time, spewing hypocritical non-sense and generally allowing your inferiority complex manifest itself on the forum, hence I call you what you are. Don’t feel special little man, you might ride the special kids bus wearing a helmet but I’m still gonna call you a fucking retard, capiche? Next to me you know just about fuck all, I’m salty as fuck and you’re a simple FoB with a complex, get over it. Only face you’re shitting on is your own 面子。

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            So you admit you mainly respond to posts that you think are “retarded” and don’t post anything original yourself. Way to make use of your time there buddy. You’re only proving to everyone that you have no life and know jack shit about what makes the world go round. Looks like your inferiority complex towards me manifests itself with every post you make. You know, and I know that you have some deep seated problems that go way beyond anything said on this website. Your attitude here is just a window to your miserable life.

            Hear me out on this. I have a proposal, since we both think the other is a retarded, worthless, hypocritical piece of shit with an inferiority complex, why don’t we just not respond to each other from now on? I mean it’s fun for a while but then it gets boring and repetitive. I won’t respond to you first and if you do respond to me, it’ll just show how desperate you are to compensate for something you lack in real life. Can we agree on that my Old Bad One?

          • POS

            First reasonable proposal you’ve made :P like I said I rarely post here + lots to do here soon. じゃ

            http://realotakugamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Eikichi_Onizuka.jpg

          • Khanthology

            ending racism begins with us. and chinese girls seem to love everyone. be like the chinese girl… spread the love.

          • POS

            Japanese girls are also very nice ladies ;) from personal experience.

          • Mighty

            Japanese girls are also the ‘loudest’ ;) from personal experience (not from AV).

          • Khanthology

            tell me about it, but nothing beats a petite white girl with a black booty.. The Whooty is my trophy biotch.

          • Mighty

            When it comes to women I never discriminate.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            This has more to do with stupidity than racism.

      • Reila90

        I’m pretty sure he has done in his life more than you could do in 100 of your life.

        • POS

          Cry me a river, you have anything to say really or are you just a sand in the vagina type like the wanker below?

          • Reila90

            You seems smart.

          • POS

            I am, at least you see one thing clearly in this life.

          • POS

            I’ll give you a thumbs up for being Captain Obvious, now run along small one.

          • Reila90

            How old are you?

          • POS

            hey wumao, I love how on your posts I manage 6-7 thumbs down while I only manage 1-2 even with Kamikaze. Fuck yourself, and quit being so damn obvious. Go give a local cadre a rim job and stop boring me.

        • POS

          Never mind, I saw your other posts. Little more than a wumao twat, feel free to fuck off. 3Q

    • He’s American, born in San Jose, and is a professor at the City College of New York (amongst other things).

      However, no, there are innovators and thinkers in China and the rest of Asia. I’m sure there’s a brilliant scientific mind in North Korea somewhere. Probably more accurate examples of this than Dr. Kaku. However, if this is going to be some race-based argument, pitting Asians against Westerners (do we get to keep the black people or are you only talking about white people?), then this argument is already too ignorant to have any winners.

      • Dave

        He should go back to his own country!

        • Mighty

          Like the Chinese-American scientist Hu Zhicheng?

        • ifoewjroiw

          go back to his country? like America? why don’t you GO back to Europe

          • Dave

            That’s the joke.

    • wes707

      If Americans (and Westerners) are just so dumb and have to depend on Asians for scientific research, I think you need to go read about the history of science. Modern science is a phenomenon of Western civilization. East Asian natural philosophy and epistemology was never even close to something like the scientific method. The reason so many foreign students come to the West to study science is because world-class scientific research is simply not being done in their countries. Case in point, please consult the Chinese Academic Ranking of World Universities compiled by Shanghai Jiaotong University: 96 of the top 100 universities in the world are in West – the other 4 are in Japan.
      http://www.shanghairanking.com

    • ifoewjroiw

      He’s an American. Although his ethnicity is Japanese, what has that got to do with this article?

    • Ivi

      Do you really think those Chinese (I will not say Indians because I don’t know much about their system of education, or environment for innovation), innovative minds would have been able to develop in China?? the US provided that environment for them to flourish in that area.

  • dafak

    Its call freedom of speech. Fact that you could not even get over that should demand that you return your diploma. Thxbye.

  • Nesporine

    Chinese are ruling the business world, Japanese and Koreans over technology, Indians over education and African-origin people over entertainment industry. All that whites are left to do is scratch their crotch. Why do Chinese people even care about such a stupid ass remark?

    • BiggJ

      It’s like the lord of the rings. All them rings that were given to everyone has powers….but there was one ring that ruled them all. And white people have that ring. lol

      • Probotector

        white liberals maybe

    • KAMIKAZIPILOT

      Well if all you said was true than Chinese truly shouldn’t care about Biden’s remarks because Chinese rule the business world right? Since Chinese do wet their pants over what Bozo Biden said, things must not be as rosy for the Chinese as you think they are.

  • Alex

    should just say to them “GTFO of this country! 这是中国!!!“ i mean….. “美国!!!” sorry, got too used to hearing it like that.

    • POS

      True that! I’d love the see the derp expression but they probably wouldnt be able to put 2 and 2 together.

  • linette lee

    I like his ideas.

    “open and fair legal system, vibrant venture capital markets, innovative thinking”

    The key to all this is the ability to THINK DIFFERENT. Or more accurately ALLOW to think different. Allow to speak up and raise your voice and be heard.

    China, you need to listen. Create a gov’t system that allow the China chinese to think different. To breath free. To have freedom of speech and press. Allow them to
    challenge orthodoxy, because change only comes from challenging orthodoxy.

    • Dave

      If even these proud Chinese college students (who, really, should be the most open minded of all) are insulted by the very idea that China isn’t the best, do you really think the fat heads in Beijing will be any better?

      This country runs on pride.

      • radbab

        the fat heads are probably the students’ parents.

        • filabusta

          Yeah that was my thought too, the parents probably had a lot to do with it.

          • Dr Sun

            not cheap to study at Harvard, etc, have a private apt and a Ferrari I seriously doubt we are looking at any ordinary Chinese sons and daughters here.

      • Nick in Beijing

        No wonder then that they get so butt-hurt when someone from the outside criticizes them. As soon as their pride runs out the whole damn thing will falter.

      • nqk123

        this is true, most asian care more about saving face then anything else. it’s embedded in their culture

        • ifoewjroiw

          correction, chinese. please do not group the rest of asians together with them.

  • TBL

    I’ve always thought these Chinese students were getting worked up over nothing.

    Its obvious as hell that Biden is a stupid person. Its obvious as hell Americans elected him for two terms to run their country. Heck, Americans appointed George “the Dubya” Bush for TWO TERMS to run THE WORLD.

    This is a country on its way down. Its reflected in the leaders. Its reflected in how the population does its elections. Its reflected in the words that the VP of the United States has to conjure up to REASSURE its populace that it can still beat China.

    A country at the top of its game doesn’t even have to disparage its opponents. Biden having to do it against China clearly shows that America is afraid, very afraid.

    Hell, these students should take this as a clear example of: America – home of Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin and Joseph Biden, is afraid of China.

    Just have a good laugh at him (and at a majority of Americans) and brush it off.

    • zi_ni_ma_13

      be fair now, “dubya” stole the first election.

    • Ivi

      If you saw this speech from another point of view you would have come to a different conclusion. What Biden said was not something untrue, and to be honest, he is actually giving the Chinese some good advice as to how to become better.
      And I agree with zi_ni_ma_13. Bush stole the first election, and that is something everyone is aware of.

  • anon101

    “America is a country where racial discrimination is extremely
    severe. Even if you emigrate to America, they will not treat you as an
    American.”

    II love that statement. Thank goodness china isnt at all racist.

    (Anon101)

  • bee c

    the only reason why Obama chose Biden as vice president was because Biden was head of the Foreign Relations Committee in Senate… cant believe he said such a thing at a graduation ceremony lol. so uncouth

  • Ralphrepo

    Two things; first, this episode really hammers home the point that Joe Biden isn’t the sharpest knife in the draw. Americans have already known this for a long time. I guess Chinese are just beginning to find out about his foot in mouth disease.

    Second, let’s face facts; overseas Chinese students number almost 200K in the US, accounting for nearly one quarter of all international students and is currently the largest single national group of foreign student within the US. Most of these students are from well off or politically connected lineages. The bottom line here is even the most ardent Chinese nationalist know that the better education is in the states. This isn’t an indictment on the level of academics in China; far from it. In terms of pure learning, China is probably ahead of the US; a simple look at math scores easily bears that out. But what makes the US educational system so sought after for the next generation (even by children of the staunchest party elite), is the open communications available in the US; allowing meaningful research and liberal unfettered discussion without fear of controversy or political reprisal.

    I think in a way, that that (the unique opportunity granted from openess, freedom of ideas and expression) was what Biden was trying to allude to, except he probably needs to hire a new speech writer.

    • Dave

      “But what makes the US educational system so sought after for the next generation (even by children of the staunchest party elite), is the open communications available in the US; allowing meaningful research and liberal unfettered discussion without fear of controversy or political reprisal.”

      Not at all. What makes it sought after is the prestige. Brand recognition. They give around zero fucks about “open communication.”

      Overseas Chinese students don’t waste much time learning new points of view and discussing politics. They’re sticking together, and studying for tests.

      They come for the college degrees, not for the college experience.

      • Paul Schoe

        Yes Dave, I agree. Often when I see positive things around me, I tend to follow the line of Ralhepro: ‘giving a positive interpretation to why this is happening’. As Alphredo says in this situation; they come to the US for the “open communications, meaningful research, unfetteredd discussion‘.

        Almost everytime, I later find out, that I have been judging the actions (in this case ‘go to a US university’) with a Western eye. That motives are almost never what I thought them to be, but that it almost always comes down to being about money or about prestige.

        In the discussions about this topic on another site, I was disappointed to see how many Chinese US graduates did not take this open communication to heart. Even though they studied at Ivy League universities, several felt that giving face was more important then speaking the truth. Apparently even though they went to an Ivy League school it had no impact on the way that they intend to face their future. For them the graduation is, as you say, about ‘prestige’, not about ‘science’ nor ‘unfettered discussion’.

        • Ivi

          That is because it is too late for them to have their mentality changed. If you want to see results, you must look at the Chinese born in America. I also met overseas Chinese students and it is true that they stick together all the time. There is a say in Spanish,”árbol que crece torcido jamas su tronco endereza”, which means ”

          As the twig is bent, so the tree grows. That is the case of these students.

          • Paul Schoe

            I can’t yet accept that. I still believe that change is possible. Yes, my parents have formed me, but I also have free will (and responsibility).
            However being faced so often with different motives (they are not even ‘ulterior motives’ because for them these are the perfectly logic and accepted motives) makes you wonder if we are blinded by our Western set of morals.

            I keep on believing in our task as humans to take care of each other, but over here in China many just can’t understand that concept: “Why would you do something for somebody who is not your friend or family?“.

            Luckily the Internet (Weibo etc.) shows more and more examples of Chinese people caring for others who they do not know, and the popularity of One Foundation (an independent Chinese NGO) is very encouraging.

    • 白色纯棉小裤裤

      Political freedom have little to do with educational system. Prior to WWII, nazi Germany was the country with least freedom but it had one of the top educational systems.

  • Al K
  • YourSupremeCommander

    So what happened to the boy and his mom who tries to kill him story? oh, got censored.

    • Mighty

      Looks like they zapped it.

    • BiggJ

      Must have been a officials relative.

  • stevelaudig

    If “Zhang Tianpu” [assuming he/she exists and isn’t a fiction] is so sensitive this he/she won’t last long in business. “Outrage” real or faked, is boring. And voicing it tells us more about the character of the person claiming outrage than the person accused of being outrageous. There’s an old, and very offensive word, when used in a particular way about a female, but when used to describe a male it means he is a weakling. Such a person is called a “pu**y.” One of the truly admirable things I have notice about the Chinese people I meet daily on the streets [they are not so pampered and cosseted as to be in an expensive foreign school practicing having hurt feelings] is that they don’t whine about what somebody says to, or about them. They are much too tough for that “Western” emotion. “Zhang Tianpu” should learn the very important distinction between the “people” and the government and a culture and a government. Biden, as it happens on occasion, is quite wrong about “freedom” in China because his definition is a narrow one. In China, the person on the street is free to negotiate prices of goods he/she buys. Try that in the US and they will look at you as if you are from Mars [or China]. Economic freedom to negotiate prices isn’t present in the US. Try it at Walmarts. Biden doesn’t mention that the US murders those who speak against it in the Muslim world. China isn’t droning the Dalai Lama and doesn’t have murder squads roving the planet, unlike the US.

    • Ivi

      Exactly, in China there is a different type of freedom.

      • ivi

        However, in the US there is more freedom to create. More brutal frankness, the mentality of losing face does not exist. People there is more innovation because students are encouraged to socialize.

        • Ivi

          I meant to say “there is a lot of innovation”. Why, because of the education system, and because people are encouraged to socialize from an early age.

  • Claude

    Huh! What happened to the attempted suicide story?

    • iLL

      who Paris Jackson? lol

      • Claude

        Ohhh, that’s nasty. Poor kid, not the kid that’s mother tried to kill but little Paris. I’m sure she also has some mental heath issues also being a part of the Jackson clan.

        But lets get back to the original comment. What became of that post? The one where the Mother tried to kill her son? Looks a bit dubious when posts are removed off a website.

  • Dave

    Biden, if you insult the party and the way things are run in China, you insult all Chinese people everywhere!

    • iLL

      im Chinese and an insult to a government party doesn’t mean your insulting the people. People who insulted Bush all over the world…American’s didn’t take that as an insult to them. Please Troll

      • China needs a lot of people like you, man !

      • Dave

        Thanks for that. It seems the line is often blurred.

        Why would these students take offence if Biden says that China stifles creativity and free thought? Why do they feel insulted if he says negative things about “the motherland?”

        • iLL

          They were insulted, sure. I do not have a problem if they feel this way…freedom to feel this. Doesn’t mean i agree with them. They are sensitive towards there home. They are young and have not seen a lot of the world and small things may offend them now, but what Biden said is very soft to be honest. The outside world is a lot more harsh.
          They are open to feel anything, America has that freedom to say which party you like and which government part you do not like. Unlike in China where you can not openly say this. Plus i bet alot of those students were offended because there parents are in the CCP. A lot of aboard students come from wealth families or family member of a CCP party member.

  • RaphaeI

    Why is a potatohead who went to an nth tier law school and still nearly flunked out giving a graduation speech at UPenn?

  • Marcus Muller

    “you cannot think different, you cannot breathe free”
    That part is a bit insulting.. It’s the equivalent of saying Americans are all liberals because we have “freedom”.. Clearly that’s not true.

    • Ivi

      Honestly, when he said “you cannot breathe free” I immediately agreed because I thought of all the pollution in cities like BJ or Shanghai, etc

      • Marcus Muller

        It’s free.. But would you not rather purchase a oxygen tank and lug it around with you?

  • iLL

    Ok these Chinese students are small minded. Really if this bothers them, wait till they get to the real world where there is much more injustice. Just go ahead and ask your government about June 4th, 1989 and see what they say about that. Ask for apology from government using Military force on unarmed students. Wouldn’t that be more important to them?

    • Probotector

      They are taught that the students attacked the soldiers, so no, it’s not more important to them.

      • iLL

        Ya…the guy standing infront of a tank with plastic bags in his hands…dangerous. People getting run over by tanks on bikes….so dangerous.

        • Probotector

          I’m not saying it’s true, I’m saying that’s what they’re taught about it.

          • iLL

            lol..i know. I am just being sarcastic about what they are taught. To be honest they aren’t taught anything about 1989 because to the CCP, it never happened.

      • no man,they aren’t taught that at all, ever. And we foreigners are hated for knowing too much. Trust me.

        • Zappa Frank

          i remember they knew something, but they just don’t like talk about this with foreigners..

          • indeed, but most of them are over 40 years old, and must save face. The rest have no clue about it.

          • Zappa Frank

            amusing, what they do in order to save face is exactly what make us think that they are losing face.

        • Probotector

          Well that’s what one of them told me, perhaps that’s one person’s opinion then.

    • 白色纯棉小裤裤

      The majority of the people who died in the incident are not students, but ordinary beijing citizens.
      Next time get the facts straight before you pretend to be knowledgeable about anything.

      • iLL

        So you know how many people were killed? You know how many were students and how many were regular people? Please enlighten me if you know the actually numbers, this way i can know.

        • 白色纯棉小裤裤

          “十九年来,我们已经记录下来的死难者共189人。其中仅在校学生就已达71人(包括小学生、中学生、职业学校学生、大学本科生、大学硕士和博士研究生.”)

          • iLL

            189 people died..lol Ok i might be wrong about the majority of them being students, but majority of them were young people pushing for freedom. To make up stupid numbers, that just proves your a troll.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            What number did I make up?

          • Jing Li

            Can you provide a link to 189 people? I just searched all over the net and found nothing referring to 189 people killed. Whether it’s Chinese or English, I’d like a link to substantiate this.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤
          • BiggJ

            Bullshit. No one knows how many people. Another chinese stat that no ones knows. You picked the lowest number they said on WIKI and used that as your stat.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            You are wrong. this is a victim name list collected by an organization, “Tiananmen mothers”, over 19 years of time.
            The real number could be more. But something like “thousands” would be again, western propaganda.

          • BiggJ

            I never said thousands. But you say 189 like it’s set in stone. And how do you know it’s not 1000’s? That web site you posted could be chinese propaganda.If 300,000 troops get sent to a city where martial law is declared and only 189 people die…well maybe but highly unlikely. If it was only 189 then why go through all the trouble in hiding it. 189 is a drop in the bucket for china.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Tiananmen mothers is an anti-government organization comprised of parents who’s kids are killed in the incident.

            There’s no reason to think they would make up a fake name list.

            The name list may be incomplete, however consider the time and effort put by Tiananmen Mothers, I highly doubt the real number would exceed 1000.

          • BiggJ

            Still how do you know it’s not propaganda? How do you know it’s even real? It could be a government web site for you know. All the info on this is super tight lipped. The number could less or more then that. There were also soldiers that died too.If soldiers with guns are dying…then civilians are going to die too ten fold.

            Just use your head. If 1o’s of thousand of pissed off people and 300,000 soldiers with guns and tanks get together where marshal law is underway….and only 198 people died….thats a feat in itself. I know if marshal law in my town of 1000 was unforced I bet 200 people or more would be killed….easy.

            Anyway point is no one knows. Could be 10,000 could be 100 could be 10…..no one knows.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Tiananmen Mothers is not a website, its a well known anti-government organization, and its found by mothers who’s kids are killed by the Chinese government.

            Their website is not even accessible in China, and its keywords are filtered by search engines.

          • BiggJ

            And how many people do you think are scared to say anything because of the example laid in that situation? And these people would be arrested for making an organization like that. look what happened to this guy. You know it;s illegal to have anti-gov organizations in china right?

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22883981

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            That’s why I say their list maybe incomplete.
            There are people scared to say anything, but there are also people want justice for their killed family members and are willing to take the risk.
            If your only kid were killed, you wouldn’t afraid of anything anymore.

          • BiggJ

            Ok, fair enough. But to say 1000 people is not that hard to believe. It might not be 1000….but who knows? I know a family in china that took 10,000 US dollars not to go to the police because a drunk driver killed thier son. So if someone were to threaten their life they definitely would not. There are lots of people out there like that.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            In the well known Hu Bin Case, the family of the drunken driver compensated the victim’s family 180,000 usd for a lenient sentence of 3 years.
            The fact is the family could gain more if they report the case.
            So you example is highly doubtful.

          • BiggJ

            And what if the guy that killed him was poor? He had borrow money from everyone to even get that much, including my wifes brother. You don’t have to believe it. I know what I saw with my own eyes.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            If the guy is not able to offer satisfactory compensation, then bad for him, his sentence could be doubled.

          • BiggJ

            And the family of the guy that was killed gets nothing. It’s better to get something to nothing.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            If the guy had 10,000 dollars, he would give it for a lenient sentence.
            So reporting the crime or not, the victim’s family will always get the compensation if they want.

          • BiggJ

            He never had 10,000 thats what I’m saying. He had to borrow all of it from people. So he either does the time and they get nothing…or he doesn’t and they get something. He;s not going to borrow money if he’s going to prison anyway.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Then it may be true.

            But reporting the death of a family member to Tiananmen Mothers is not life threatening.
            The founder of Tiananmen Mothers only got house arrested.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Oh and I forgot that fatal drunk driving is a public prosecution case, so it’s unlikely to be settled privately.

          • BiggJ

            It’s ok don’t believe me. It’s better if you don’t anyway.

          • Guest

            Then it may be true.

            However reporting the death of family members in 6.4 is not life threatening.

            The founder of Tiananmen Mothers only got house arrest.

          • BiggJ

            So then why bother report it? It’s not like they will get justice. Just leave it be.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Why bother? It’s their son or husband who got killed.
            You really think most people don’t care?

          • BiggJ

            Sure they care, but why cause even more trouble for you and your family?It’s best to just except it. Has anything happened since then? Has anything changed?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            If they care they would want the sacrifice of their family members to be remembered.
            And although justice may not be served, they would not give up the chance for just a little trouble it may or may not cause.

          • BiggJ

            So one of your family gets killed protesting and the next best thing to do is protest again? One got killed for speaking his mind maybe the rest will learn by example,

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            If one of my family gets killed protesting I will not hestitate to tell the truth to news reporters or post it on the internet.

            If one of your family gets killed you will just keep silent?

          • BiggJ

            If I was chinese in mainland china I would.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            However no one got punished for just not keeping silent.

          • BiggJ

            How do you know? You think they would tell you if they did?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Western news reporters would tell.

          • BiggJ

            Go to the square tomorrow and hold a sign saying’ My son was killed here by the government” And see what happens.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            What you said is much more risky than reporting the death of your son to an organization.

            However I think even in your example, the worst scenario would be arrested for a couple days.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Anyway, the point is, if anything happen to the 200 families who reported 6.4 deaths, western medias would be more than happy to report it.

          • Jing Li

            If they’re risking house arrest for speaking it? I think quite a few would focus on the family they have left. And it was a little more than just house arrest anyways.

            Prior to the house arrest they already had to deal with

            – phone lines being monitored 24 hours a day
            – all emails being monitored
            – not being allowed to openly mourn their lost family
            – donations to the families (from both Chinese and overseas) intercepted and taken by the authorities.

            Tiananmen is a very tricky situation, because the truth of it has been sealed for 24 years. If the government were ever to say, “You know what? From now on we can openly talk about that,” it could create some major problems for China. I don’t necessarily agree with keeping it a forbidden topic, but I certainly do understand why it is.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Please enlighten me if any of the families of the 200 victims on the list was house arrested….

            The founder of Tiananmen Mothers only got house arrested, so I doubt the government would do anything about the people who just reported names to Tiananmen Mothers.

          • BiggJ

            Another thing too, how many people actually know about this organization? It’s not like they can advertise or people can search for it on the internet. I’m sure a lot of people don’t even know about this group.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            I, a person who was not even born when the incident took place know about the organization. The relatives of the victims definitely have more reasons to know about the organization than I do.

          • BiggJ

            And how did you find out?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            I don’t remember, probably from a friend, from my parents or from the internet.
            I knew about the organization many years ago.

          • BiggJ

            I would bet anything you do no even live in china. So it’s easy for you to google it.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            It’s very easy to get a VPN in China, 15 RMB per month on taobao.

          • BiggJ

            Type vpn in taobao and see what comes up. I bet nothing. And they are illegal in china. So are you saying you are a criminal going against the chinese government?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            What? VPNs are illegal?
            Literally millions of people are using VPNs to play foreign games in China.

          • BiggJ

            The way you would use them to look up shit that is censored in china is illegal. Like that mothers web site. They are only to be used by businesses for trading and shit. And I think foreigners can use them. If they are no big deal then why does china crack down on them all the time?

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            The fact is Chinese still have easy access to VPNs.

          • BiggJ

            Marijuana is east access too. Don’t mean the government wants you to do it.

          • Jing Li

            Dealing with the fact that the government doesn’t tolerate them. Dealing with the fact that the news doesn’t report them. Dealing with the fact that schools don’t teach about them… you know that’s an impossible task.

            Just as you providing any sort of accurate number of deaths is impossible. The truth will probably never be known. So there is no reason to argue about this.

          • Jing Li

            ONLY got house arrest?

          • Jing Li

            It’s not Chinese propaganda. It’s the mother’s of victims of Tiananmen, but it only details the victims of the people who have joined that group.

          • BiggJ

            OK, I can see it’s not propaganda but you say only 189 people died is crazy. I;m sure a lot of people never signed up for this group.

          • Jing Li

            Correct. I mean, what exactly is the motivation for signing up? Hey, you’re going to be persecuted and it’s not going to bring back your family member.

          • BiggJ

            Yeah and that number is just students or young people. That not including adults. 白色纯棉小裤裤 thinks it could not be over 1000. I think it’s very well possible it could be.

          • Jing Li

            At this point, I doubt anyone will ever know for sure.

          • BiggJ

            Yeah, you’re right.

          • Jing Li

            I can’t believe the ping pong I’m playing. First I’m telling an anti China guy he’s not making any sense, now I’m telling the anti everything that’s not China guy he’s not making any sense.

            Tiananmen Mothers. It is a group of people who lost children in the massacre. The names listed are the relatives of the members. Members are people who are aware of the group and brave enough to come forward. The leader of the group even says this.

            http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9906/02/tiananmen/MacKinnon/ding.zilin.html

            By the way, it looks like more have joined. It’s at 202 now.

            So, this does not substantiate your claim. In fact, it proves that it is wrong.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            ” 需要说明的是,并不是所有的“六四”受难者都自动地成为这个群体的成员。属于这个群体的,都是在不同时期参加过联署活动的“六四”受难者和受难亲属。”

            You are wrong by saying “The names listed are the relatives of the members.”

            I never claim that there were only 189 people died.

            I said the number could be more, but its unlikely that it would exceed 1000.

          • BiggJ

            And you are wrong by thinking that there is no way the number exceeds 1000.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            I said unlikely.
            The number may exceed 1000, but I think the chance is very slim.

          • BiggJ

            How do you know? Why do you think it’s very slim?

          • Jing Li

            It’s the number of people that volunteered the information, and there’s no way you can prove it’s more or less than 1000. I was never claiming to state the number because I don’t know.

            Why wouldn’t people volunteer this information?

            Okay, if you live in China, go to your local government and demand to know how many people died at the Tiananmen Square massacre. Demand the truth.

            See you in 50 years.

  • bprichard

    All because after four years at Penn, a few students couldn’t even manage to understand the definition of the word “nation”.

    Oh well, they’re at least doing a handsome job of padding the coffers of universities throughout the world.

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»