Fallen Old Lady in Sichuan Blames Children Who Helped Her Up

An elderly Chinese woman in Sichuan province who swears on the life of her entire family that it was a child who ran into her and made her fall, despite police convicting her of falsely accusing others to extort money from them.

From NetEase:

Sichuan “False Accuser” Old Woman Appeals for Reconsideration, Complains Tearfully: May My Entire Family Die if I’m Lying

Summary: Sichuan “false accuser” old woman Jiang Guangrong maintained to the media that she was knocked over by the children and feels that she has been wronged. To prove that she is innocent, she vowed, “if I’ve said anything false to scam anyone, may my entire family die”. In the face of the handling and decision made by the Public Security Bureau [police], the elderly person’s family express dissatisfaction and will appeal for reconsideration.

Related News:

Sichuan 3 Children Who Helped Up Old Lady Are Instead Framed, False Accuser Old Lady Detained for 7 Days [on NetEase]

3 Children Who Helped Up Old Woman Accused of Knocking Her Down, Police File Case as Scam/False Accusation [on NetEase]

The Great-Grandmother’s Side:

The matter isn’t over yet

With regards to the handling by police, Grandma Jiang and family express dissatisfaction. She still insists she was knocked down by the children, feels she has been wronged, and weeps. To demonstrate her innocence, she’s even made the “may my entire family die” [if lying] oath.

The Children’s Side:

[Hopes the matter] cools down as soon possible

Facing media that rushed over from all over the country, the child’s father Mr. Yang is most worried about his child’s head swelling and he is looking forward to the matter quickly “cooling” off, so they can return to their ordinary, quiet lives.

A 9-year-old child helped up an elderly person but was instead grabbed and held by the elderly person demanding compensation her for medical expenses. After 5 months of back and forth, just a few days ago, for extortion, the Public Security Bureau gave administrative detention and fines as punishment to Grandma Jiang and her son. However, because Grandma Jiang is already over 70 years old, administrative detention is not enforced in accordance with the law (Chengdu Business Daily follow-up report). Yesterday, the elderly person continued to insist that she was knocked down by the children, felt she was wronged, and even vowed: “if I’ve said anything false to scam anyone, may my entire family die.” In the face of the handling and decision made by the Public Security Bureau [police], the elderly person’s family express dissatisfaction and will appeal for reconsideration.

The children who helped a fallen old woman who then accused them of making her fall and demanded compensation for medical expenses, and their fathers.

Great Grandmother Responds

Weepingly says “may my entire family die If I’m lying”

Yesterday afternoon, the elderly person Jiang Guangrong accepted an interview with this reporter for Chengdu Business Daily. “I fell and injured myself that day because several children ran into me. At the time, I had just walked to the middle of that courtyard by myself, and 3 children who were horsing around ran over, with one of the children running into me and knocking me down. I didn’t even ask them to come help me up. I grabbed and held the child that ran into me.” Grandma Jiang feels she has been wrong and unable to control her emotions, she repeatedly cried. According to her relatives, she has only eaten one meal over the past two days, her mood extremely sad, and did not sleep at all last night. “I did not say any lies, much less extort anyone.” Grandma Jiang cried, “I never thought I’d be injured and hurt, and that my son would be locked up.” To profess her innocence, she cried and swore: “if I’ve said anything false to scam anyone, may my entire family die.”

Yesterday afternoon, the elderly person Jiang Guangrong had her son-in-law, grandson, and daughter-in-law go to the Nanwai police station and lodge a written complaint of dissatisfaction with the police’s handling [of the case]. A representative for the Nanwai police station expressed that the relevant individuals unhappy with the administrative punishment may appeal for reconsideration with the higher Public Security Bureau or the county (area) government, as well as file an administrative lawsuit directly with the People’s Court.

On-Site Visit

Hometown villager says “she’s usually [seen as] a good person”

Grandma Jiang’s daughter-in-law Hu Shimei says they they purchased a home and have been living together for 10 years already. “My husband and son do interior decorating/renovations, I polish shoes, and the entire family’s income is at least 10,000 RMB and up each month. Although we aren’t considered a particularly rich household, we live quite well. Using an elderly person’s body to go con other people’s money, that’s something we wouldn’t be able to do”

According to villager and small group leader Gong Fashun of the elderly woman’s hometown, “she’s usually [seen as] a good person, not disliked.” Gong Fashun says the elderly woman and is on relatively good terms with her neighbors in the village, and hasn’t heard anything bad about the elderly woman before. “I’ve lived in the village for 40-50 years now and I’ve never heard anyone say Old Lady Jiang uses falling down to go extort others.”

Child’s father: Wants to live in peace, most afraid of child’s head swelling

After this period of time, Mr. Yang now looks forward to the matter “cooling” off, “We don’t want the media to excessively interfere with our lives. We especially don’t want the media to excessively disturb our child. We’re just ordinary people, and we only want to live our lives in peace and quiet.”

However it is clear that this wish of Mr. Yang will be difficult to realize for the time being. Over the past few days, media from all around the country have rushed over and begun to focus attention on these three households. “What I’m most worried about is my child’s head swelling. I have told my child more than once that in all of this, you guys aren’t actually heroes and merely did something that ordinary people should do.”

What has gratified the three fathers is that the three children remain as lively as before. However, there have been a few tiny changes that Mr. Yang has noticed. While being interviewed, one of the children expressed that from now on, when they see a fallen elderly person, they’ll first go find a witness and then lend a hand to help the elderly person up. This made Mr. Yang grimace as he listened on the side. After going home, Mr. Yang told his own child that when someone is in a difficulty, what one should first think of isn’t finding a witness, “and even if you aren’t able to help, you should first dial 110 or 120 [emergency assistance numbers]”.

Comments from NetEase:

爆破一组组长 [网易广西梧州市网友]:

Yesterday afternoon when I got off work, I purchased some daily necessities from a shopping center. About 5 meters from the shopping center, an old lady was walking down the stairs, missed a step and slam, fell down. Just the sound itself sounded quite painful, and the old lady had fallen there unable to move. I was about to go help her up, walked 2 steps, and then noticed that not a single person around us had moved forward to help, so I stopped too, just like the large crowd around me, watching the old lady take a few minutes to recover before being able to get back up. Beside me was a young girl who had called 120, and then everyone dispersed ——- After coming home and up to now, I’ve kept wondering if I should’ve helped the old woman up, because after all, everyone has an elderly person in their family. However, I really was afraid of being blamed —- With my income, I essentially can’t afford it.
With society the way it is today, I really don’t know if everyone has simply gotten smart or just become cold-blooded [apathetic, indifferent, callous] — Sigh.
PS: Everyone please don’t curse me as being cold-blooded or whatever, I really was afraid and I have to send over half my wages every month back for my mother’s medical care! If you’re going to curse me, I guess I’ll accept it too!

何立言 [网易浙江省杭州市网友]:

A judicial precedent’s effects often extends far beyond the case itself. The Nanjing Peng Yu case [where a man who helped a fallen old woman was blamed for knocking her over, and a Nanjing judge agreed saying “common sense” dictated that only the person responsible would help] has been an irremovable shadow that has lingered deep in people’s hearts, tormenting many people today with whether they should “help or not help” when they see a fallen elderly person, as well as an excuse for some people for not acting when they should. The facts prove that in this society where morals are degenerating by the day, if you want to be a person who helps others and does good, just how much risk must you bear?
Now let us look at this case. If it weren’t for strong witnesses testimony, wouldn’t these three schoolchildren have become a second “Peng Yu”? If these three schoolchildren were to suffer such an injustice, just what kind of effects would it have upon their young spirits and their families? And the extortioner merely getting 7 days of administrative detention but not having it enforced on account of her age, what kind of effects will this too produce?

胡思不乱写 [网易广东省佛山市网友]:

Black Dye jar: China is too old, there is large or small in society, everything has become extremely vile, like a black dye jar, where no matter what new things are added into it, it all becomes pitch-black. Look at all the experts, who are either reminiscing “the past” or “hoping for the future”, but when it comes to the subject of “right now” have all handed in black exam papers, because no one can issue a prescription, and all of the best prescriptions are so-called “hopes for the future”… — Lu Xun

网易江苏省淮安市手机网友 [网易江苏省淮安市手机网友]:

Wasn’t anything good when [she] was young. Don’t believe me? Go investigate.

网易广东省深圳市手机网友 [网易广东省深圳市手机网友]: (responding to above)

The animals of the Cultural Revolution are now old!

网易四川省手机网友 ip:117.136.*.*: (responding to above)

I’m thinking, if (and I’m saying if) it really was the child who ran into her, why would there be people testifying that it was the old lady who fell on her own?! I think those witnesses who testified probably don’t have any grudge with the old lady, so they wouldn’t provide false testimony! So it must be that the old lady fell o her own! Probably it was the old lady who fell but though it must’ve been because someone had run into her, and then convinced herself in her heart that someone else had run into her! Over time and because of her elderly age, she only remembers that it was someone who ran into her! This is just my personal viewpoint, if you don’t like it, don’t spout abuse at me!

网易广东省广州市网友 ip:14.18.*.*:

At this point with that kind of old muddle-headedness, how could she possible admit fault? If she did, who knows how embarrassing it would be for her? So she can only insist to her death that she didn’t [try to scam/frame others]. It can be understood, but not forgiven.

网易广西贵港市手机网友 ip:121.31.*.*:

It’s not that the old have become wicked, it’s the that the wicked have become old.

网易陕西省西安市手机网友(113.140.*.*):

Were there no surveillance cameras? Nor eye-witnesses? Come forward and speak for justice!

6875313 [网易浙江省杭州市网友]: (responding to above)

Eye-witnesses saw that the old lady fell on her own, and that the little children were far away when they went over to help her up.

网易吉林省通化市网友 [衍通助理]:

When people get old, there are going to be moments of muddle-headedness [confusion], where one keeps thinking they are right. But even if the old woman was muddle-headed, could the family members also be muddle-headed? It’s already very shameful [to be convicted of trying to scam others], how much more shameful do they plan on being? To the point where they’re run out of the city?

网易广东省深圳市手机网友 ip:119.147.*.* 2013-11-24 03:40:23 发表

Even death is not enough for old men and women like this!

苏二果 [网易河南省手机网友]:

If simply swearing/vowing were of any use, what would we need the police for?

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  • Guest23

    “It’s not that the old have become wicked, it’s that the wicked have become old”

    There’s some truth in it, really can’t believe this type of person who would say “May my entire family die, if I’m lying” I’m not inclined to believe a person who is supposedly innocent would say this, that’s just damning yourself, is compensation and saving face really that important?

    The Peng Yu case and that Nanjiang judge’s verdict on what common sense is, had really left it’s mark on China’s society today, really need better arbitration on these types of cases and the shallow and shameless idiots who keep abusing these situations to get compensation money need to be fined or even punished highly.

    • the ace of books

      Agreed. Making a big fucking fuss over something like this is just a waste of time. Unfortunately, face is ~everything~, and so people keep going on belabouring points they dont’ need to belabour, just to get some sort of “satisfaction” out of the result.

      And I think people blame the Peng Yu case too much for this kind of stuff. The Nanjing judge’s verdict was wrong, yes, and everyone can see that. But!
      1) if everyone knows it’s wrong, why do people still pull this kind of shit?
      2) that judge didn’t get their ideas from thin air: that attitude must’ve been prevalent enough that they felt justified in making that ruling.
      3) why hasn’t someone overturned, appealed, or ruled over that ruling later?

      • Guest23

        Yup, it only went from bad to worst when people’s distrust against one another and paranoia went up after this stupid verdict, it’s cause and effect, without consequences or even protection against these insane cases, it’s not gonna be good overall if “stab thy neighbor’s back” is the norm in these kind of situations, it’ll make people outside look down on them and it won’t improve community.

      • Kai

        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/china-s-infamous-good-samaritan-case-gets-a-new-ending-adam-minter.html

        It was later revealed that Peng Yu did in fact knock the old lady over at the bus stop. Problem is, the damage was already done. Even if the Peng Yu case turned out to be legitimate, there have been so many other cases of people being wrongly accused that people have already become fearful.

        If you observe, there are still plenty of people helping fallen people up everyday, but there’s no question that a lot of people are now wary, especially when the fallen person is an elderly person. Sucks,

        • Germandude

          “It was later revealed that Peng Yu did in fact knock the old lady over at the bus stop”

          Oh wow, I didn’t know that! The mysterious thing is that everytime I am typing “Nanjing incident/Peng Yu” (or sth related to that case) into google, my internet is timing out.
          And no, I am not using a proxy at the moment.

          It’s a shame that this kind of thing is responsible for people not helping each other.

        • Guest23

          People are still skeptical about that final report, why wait that long? the effects of that judge’s decisions on what common sense is, has certainly gave rise to these kinds of situations, still a lot of good people but they are now scared if even doing good, it’s certainly ironic.

        • Paul Schoe

          Thanks for sharing that. The Peng Yu case is a very confusing one, so I am happy to hear that although the reasoning might have been wrong, justice was served by this Nanjing judge.

        • linette lee

          They make such a big deal because the old lady don’t have universal healthcare coverage. She is depending on the accused to pay for her medical bill. If she has good medical coverage and can afford treatment on her own, she wouldn’t give those boys such a hard time and waste so much time and aggravation. In USA people sue for medical expenses because they don’t have universal healthcare coverage and it can get expensive.

  • mwanafa

    This case is very very difficult,
    There are many possibilities but the bottom-line, however, is that one of them is not telling the truth.
    The odds are not in grandma’s favour anyway, because of the past set ups orchestrated by other grandmas, the first thing that comes to my mind and perhaps everyone’s mind now is that this is the same thing as Peng Yu’s and others case. I had concluded that the grandma is a liar until I read the family side confession. Who is the mastermind behind this?
    Case:
    1.Can be grandma herself.
    2.Can be a member of the family or all the family together.
    3.Can be grandma and the other part which is not family.
    Now I have eliminated Case two, because after police investigation, they would have found out(or may be that’s what happened).
    For case number one, this will be worse if there is no CCTV evidence or witness(which seems to be the case), because the granny seems to be unbreakable.It’s worse because her family believe wholeheartedly that it’s not a set up, to them it’s the kids who are lying.
    Case number three is very unlikely but may be the granny was used by people to do this, like those people who force others to beg on the streets.
    Now what if the kids are lying? Is there any possibilities that they actually pushed her and agreed to lye that they didn’t? I don’t think so. And if so, because they are three it would have been easy for the police to find out.
    This lead me to conclude that the grandma marshaled and execute the whole thing, her family not knowing what’s going, but still I don’t why did she do it?

  • markus peg

    IF YOU EVER go to help or aid someone in China make sure someone films you to protect against such accusations.. It’s the only way to be safe.

    • the ace of books

      Unfortunately, it’s come to that. I can’t say I like it, but it is true that, with accusations like this being the go-to reaction to helpfulness, it’s more self-destructive to help someone than it is rewarding.

    • Markoff

      that just doesn’t make sense, how it’s gonna help you filming what happened AFTER accident? you need to have some working CCTV around to show in court room what really happened or at least one witness who will prove you didn’t do it and saw how accident happened

      • Zappa Frank

        use your phone to film while you’re going to help..however it’s trivial.. only in china I’ve ever heard about such kind of problmes, I wonder where are Chinese who talk about western lack of morality, values, and so on when daily life in china is this, because this is just the top of the iceberg, all the society is somehow only after money……

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      I would just say “if you ever help old people in China”….stubborn old bats

    • Kai

      Like what @disqus_601XwN6chF:disqus said, that alone isn’t enough. You need to film (or get a few witnesses) the fallen person testifying that it wasn’t you who knocked them over and you’re just being a good samaritan helping them up. I think peolpe in China have actually done such a thing, which goes to show how sad the situation is.

    • 蓝狗

      Not a bad idea, but who thinks of such things before going to assist, particularly if they’re in need of immediate assistance?

      I was nearly a victim of compo scammers myself when a woman deliberately ran out in front of my scooter. She suffered a minor gravel rash to her knee. Luckily it was near the entrance to a hospital and my girlfriend at the time accompanied her to get her injury looked at by a doctor. The bill was around 50rmb which I paid.

      After coming out of the hospital both my girlfriend and I were accosted by the injured woman and four of her friends who together demanded 5000rmb compensation. They wanted us to accompany them to the police station to sort the matter out. They also threatened to call the police if we didn’t.

      If not for my girlfriend at the time I would have agreed. However, my girlfriend told them to fck off and then both of us jumped back on the scooter and promptly left the vicinity..

  • lonetrey / Dan

    I don’t know… Now I’m thinking old people should be kept in a senior citizen community/shelter where they can’t possibly get into trouble.

    That would solve everything at least.

    • the ace of books

      See, but that would go against the Confucian value system. If you put your elderly in a home, you just don’t care about them and you’re a bad son/daughter! That’s why there’s so few rest homes in China, and so many old folks at the parks, etc etc.

      Also, I don’t believe keeping them in an old folks’ home would solve the compensation problem – if anything, it’s exacerbate it, since homes are an extra cost. Plus, people always find something to whinge over.

      • lonetrey / Dan

        But think of all the money you’d save from not getting sued by old people!

        Surely that much money saved would overcome the costs!

  • Marcus Black

    Okay this is the last straw. I am going to go in on you Chinese people’s decadent moral values. Just yesterday I found out from a “friend” about helping people. Apparently in China if someone helps you, they expect you to help them. Are you people for real? And also this issue about someone suing or blaming others when they are helped is so backwards it’s unbelievable. When I help someone I don’t demand they help me to make it even. That is fucking absurd and defeats the purpose of helping. You help someone out of compassion and good will. Something you people don’t seem to have for your fellow countrymen/women. There are many things I like about your culture but this is not one of them. It’s in your best interest change this backwards way of thinking that is dysfunctional. You will never become a true superpower with such backwards attitude. You will get close but eventually it will all crumble because you will discover the pillars holding the structure are made of twigs. This is why a lot of your politicians are moving their assets and family abroad because they know the system will fail and when it does you will probably fight amongst yourself like good old times. Worse for you foreign powers will rush in to carve what was once China into different countries after they exploit the diverse ethnic composition of China. Taiwan is clearly not going to be able to subdue the mainland because you all seem to dislike them.

    • Henry C

      Ok, I used to feel very similar to you about the “you should help people out of compassion, and not expect to be helped in return” idea, but let me explain how my views have changed after living in China for over two years and talking with many Chinese people. I am an American who first taught English in Chengdu eight years ago, and I felt it was very manipulative when people would insist on treating me to dinner (when I would have gladly paid my share), and then immediately after paying the check ask me for some favor. I still think that that kind of asking for favors is too bold-faced and manipulative. However, here is where I think I have changed since then. I am now in China doing academic research and also needing to make some money on the side. I have found that the only way to get things done in China is to go through connections (guanxi). I am constantly asking people for favors, and I can completely understand if they want a favor in return. Why? Because China is a hyper-competitive and ambitious society. People usually feel that they don’t have enough money or time. People struggling to get ahead in China, including me, simply do not have the extra time to spend on helping people if we don’t think we have a chance of being helped in return. Of course, there are still times I help people with no thought of being helped in return, such as through volunteer work. Although many Chinese participate in volunteer work so they can put it on their resume, I have met some who simply do it out of the goodness of their heart. However, I have found that if I am asked for a favor here, and I never ask for anything in return, I can quickly been seen as someone who can be used whenever needed, and that is not a good feeling. Thus, I have started to be more direct about asking for monetary compensation for doing things like editing English on papers, even for my good Chinese friends, and I have had to reject many requests for assistance. Otherwise, I will simply be overwhelmed.

      To restate, China is a hyper-competitive society with many ambitious people struggling to get ahead. People feel that to remain in one place is to be left behind. Thus, many take a very utilitarian view, and will always be thinking about how helping others affects their own interests.

      Regarding your comment that China will never be a true superpower without changing its attitude, I like your analogy to a house made of twigs. China is rising fast, but some degree of generalized trust towards strangers, a sense of moral integrity, and a feeling of responsibility towards society as a whole are necessary for China to be a stable and growing superpower. Right now these things are not completely absent in China, but they are certainly lacking. Unfortunately, I feel that these things are also sorely lacking in my country, the United States, as shown by the growing gap between the rich and poor, the still high violent crime rate, and the rising prison population (at this point 1% of the US population). My point is that a moral crisis affects our entire world.

    • linette lee

      …….This is why a lot of your politicians are moving their assets and family abroad because they know the system will fail and when it does you will probably fight among……..

      No, those china politicians move their assets and family out of china because all those assets and money are stolen from the people of china. They need to hide them outside China. Hong kong seems to be one of their favorite place to hide the money they stole. USA and Canada too.

    • Kai

      I have no idea what your friend said exactly but I have to wonder if he wasn’t just saying something pretty universal, the golden rule, of treating others as you would want to be treated, of helping each other, of doing and returning favors, of mutual benefit, quid pro quo, etc. These notions are not unique to Chinese moral values, nor is kindness for kindness sake foreign. They have ancient idioms for this stuff.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there aren’t some people who pretend to help out of kindness but then immediately have some sort of request of you, which is just a ham-fisted way of trying to establish a quid pro quo exchange. That’s just not remotely the norm.

      Second, the person that sues someone who helped them isn’t suing them because they “helped”, but because they think the person was responsible for causing injury in the first place OR they dishonestly want to hold SOMEONE responsible to either cover medical fees or con someone of money. The way you put it, it’s as if you think these people are so twisted that they intentionally sue people for “helping”, which I hope isn’t what you intended. This false accusation or wrongful accusation isn’t unique to China either, but what’s upsetting about China is perhaps that there aren’t more explicit legal protections, though as we saw in this case, the old lady was determined to have violated the crime of extortion/blackmail/false accusation.

      The rest of your comment was amusingly poetic.

    • Paul Schoe

      The system also prevents them from accepting help. I was able to help a high positioned neighbour with some problems that he faced, but to my surprise he refused my help.
      Later I found out that because my support would have cost me quite some time, he had to refuse me because he didn’t want to be indebted to me.

      As you say; such ideas about being indebted are relatively foreign to us. Yes, I would have expected him to greet me on the street, or give me the proverbial cup of sugar if I wanted to borrow some sugar, but in no way I would feel any entitlement for a generous quid pro quo.

  • Stefan Xu

    This is why Chinese only watch when they see people who are injured.

    • Cauffiel

      “Upvote” if you would help a bleeding, agonizing Stefan on a sidewalk in Beijing.

  • harvz

    Maybe this old geezer will prove her innocence by self immolation.

  • N0WBIE

    Look who’s family is going to die.

    Seriously china? Now old people and blaming for what happened that people didn’t do.

  • the ace of books

    Ugh, this again?

    I think I agree most in this case with the Guangdong guy with the 14.18 IP. It would lose this woman so much face to admit to anyone else that she was wrong – she would look like such a laughingstock and object of ridicule – that she can’t admit even to herself that she was lying. So she’s maintaining the story not for actual truth’s sake but for face. Moreover, she has to exaggerate because its’ the only avenue left to her – it’s the pattern of victim-behavior that, in China, is the most sympathized with: not eating! crying all the time! so thin! swearing on her life! swearing on her family’s life! and, once the money doesn’t come, suicide is an option because it’s the ultimate way of showing you were wronged.

    It’s not even conscious, I don’t think. I highly doubt the woman is thinking to herself, “ah! so I have come to the crying stage!” or “oh, that’s right, now’s my cue to hyperbolically plead my own innocence!” I think it’s that, through the social osmosis of seeing situations where victims did similar things, these patterns of behavior come up most readily, and are not smothered or denied because This Is The Proper Outlet For Them. It’s socially allowed to behave like this in this situation, and if she didn’t, she would be even more disbelieved.

    Finally, I gotta say I think far less of her when I know that her first reaction, upon being helped up, is to grab the child and accuse it. Way to fucking go there, old lady. Doesn’t matter it’s true or not, that reaction is some money-minded bullshit and I ain’t going to be on the side of anyone who does that.

  • mr.wiener

    Were there any witnesses? At the moment it’s just She said/they said.

    • David

      Apparently there were witnesses that backed the children’s story, which is why the police decided in their favor.

      • mr.wiener

        If that is the case then string the old bitch up.

        • mwanafa

          I just read the full story, and the granny is still sticking to her story, just picture how she feels deep inside when she is all alone thinking about the incident.

          • Ruaraidh

            Probably pissed off that she isn’t getting away with it, and totally lacking remorse.

    • Guest23

      One witness said that she fell on her own and just as she was about to help her, the kids who were far away, ran and helped her quickly, she saw that they were taking some time, she went up and saw the old lady holding up the kid’s arms and she clearly saw that there were red skin marks.

  • Cameron

    The Lu Xun quote is pretty on the money. Chinese customs and ways of thinking are so firmly established over the centuries/millennia. People are acted upon rather than actors in China. People know right from wrong in their hearts, but that doesn’t count for shit as soon as they step outside and it’s dog eat dog.

    If the CEOs of the top 500 companies in the world could remake every nation in the image of one nation they would undoubtedly choose China: a society driven by greed and ruthlessness from top to bottom, a populace only interested in their neighbours to the extent that they want to best them economically, and very little in the way of idealism or religion as a distraction.

  • Morning

    Its obvious the old lady lied, if we take a look at the simple logic behind this case. We find it is nearly impossible for some one as old as she is(over 70 years old), catch a 9 year old child after she had just fallen.

    If the children actually made contact with her and cause her to fall, then they simply could of ran away. In no way can an elderly person of her age, who had just fallen, pursue and catch them.

    Hence the only way for that old lady to catch and blame the 9 year olds is that, the children were in her premise for a long period of time (AKA helping her up).

    Honestly these embarrassing events happen far too often in China. A tragic morality displayed by a tragic nation. The China I grew up in is truly gone.

  • Dannisi

    I gotta stop reading this site, it makes me so jaded. It has gotten me to the point that if I see a Chinese in trouble I would probably not help them. Helping other is all good and stuff, but self preservation still comes first.

  • Cauffiel

    A friend of mine told me her aunt bought a skin cream from Hong Kong for her daughter’s teacher. What did the teacher do? Demanded more. The aunt now buys it regularly for the teacher, fearing her daughter will be treated badly if she does not.

    • Zappa Frank

      and I bet that her skin, like 80% of Chinese girls, despite caring so much, is completely destroyed by the acne

      • Cauffiel

        80% is quite an over-estimate

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      Yeah that’s the kind of things that really makes one think about executing a few people.

      • Cauffiel

        No executing, but certainly bitch-slapping. How’s that for losing face!

  • Zappa Frank

    think about why these shameless idiots are in china only and in western countries we don’t need to violate human rights to avoid those kinds of situations…

    • Bob_Barker

      Shameless idiots are everywhere, and I have no belief that China holds a monopoly on this.

      Having worked in insurance claims, I’ve come across plenty of people trying to game the system. Instead of ripping off an individual, they’re ripping off a company.

      Its opportunism, it exists everywhere and is best checked by solid rule of law. I won’t disagree that China has a problems on this front. If judges are making decisions based on flawed logic instead of sound evidence, then people will have serious doubt in the legal system.

  • Guest23

    Did I mention intense labor camps or even getting a lengthy prison term in my post? The punishment must fit the crime, a fine and a record of their behavior and maybe a reprimanding if found wrong, that last article where a “kindly old” woman blamed the only one who helped her was just forced to do a halfhearted apology and given a pat in the back to never let this happen again, that’s gonna be a problem.

  • Guest23

    There’s quite a lot of talk about the apathy and disconnect between people in communities and society overall, to think too much and feel too little, it’s a bit dis-concerning.

    • Cauffiel

      Not to be a linguistics cop, but…. disconcerting.

      • Guest23

        Yeah, thanks there, bit tired lately and think I just skipped checking my posts.

  • Germandude

    The problem is that your shameless government has made it clear in the Nanjing case that helping one another shouldn’t be a Chinese virtue.

    Divine and conquer.

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      Which Nanjing case are you referring to? Not talking about the massacre right?

      • Germandude

        No. I am referring to the “Peng Yu Nanjing incident” in 2006.

        Peng Yu helped a woman and brought her to a hospital after she had fallen down some stairs (or escalator iirc). Afterwards, he was accused by her pushing her down. A judge then claimed that common sense dictates that Peng Yu only helped because he pushed her…

    • mr.wiener

      Whereas in Germany you must come and help fellow motorists, by law.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_autobahns#Traffic_laws_and_enforcement

      Does this also apply to pedestrians helping other pedestrians?

      • Germandude

        Yes. In fact, if you fail to help, you can be sued for “Unterlassene Hilfeleistung” which can be translated into “refraining aid”.

        If you fail to help, you can be punished

        – by a minimum 2 years and up to 5 years in prison (in the case of manslaughter)

        – up to 5 years in the case of injury and

        – up to 2 years in case of damage to property.

        Basically, this means, you have to help a person, no matter if the person is in need of help because the person suffered from an accident, but also, if for example, you see 3 guys beating up 1, you have to do sth. This doesn’t necessarily mean you need to try to even the odds (actually you should not fight with either party), but you need to call the police. Failing to do so, opens the gate for punishment in either of the above 3 punishments.

        PS: Doing nothing and being caught doing nothing are 2 different things though. (obviously).

        • Zappa Frank

          same in the rest of Europe I think

  • Gordon Gogodancer

    That’s bullshit.

  • Gordon Gogodancer

    If Chinese people believe that all Westerners watch that pile of dog shite that is CNN, then i can understand all Chinese people’s missperceptions.

  • mr.wiener

    Next story expected to be: “Fallen old lady’s family lukewarm on her vow for them to die if she lied…Son reported as remarking “I wish she’d stop saying that”

  • mr.wiener

    ……..but remember to help them down the stairs afterwards.

    • moop

      What is it about good sex that makes me have to crap? I guess it’s all that pumpin’. Pump and dump.

      Kingpin

  • Kai

    I think there’s a bit of exaggeration or selective memory in some of the anecdotal criticisms often presented on cS.

    Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of stories and complaints online by Chinese netizens themselves about how young people don’t give up their seats for the elderly anymore, but the way some criticisms are worded, it makes me wonder if people are forgetting all the other instances where Chinese people did give up their seat for the elderly.

    I’ve probably taken the bus or subways in China as much as anyone else here and I’ve seen a lot of things, but I’d never want to give the impression that the number of instances where Chinese people refuse to give up their seats for the elderly is anything close to the number of times they do. Seeing someone do something contrary to what is expected sticks in our memories, which is understandable, but I think it leads to a lot of unfair generalizations and characterizations of Chinese people on this site.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misleading_vividness

    • Teacher in China

      Totally agree Kai. I see it a lot, too. Almost every time I’m on the bus here in small town Dongbei, I see someone helping an old man or old lady get into their seat. And don’t go thinking “small town values” or anything like that, because honestly, small town thinking in Dongbei is probably not what you think it is…..

  • Free Man

    Force that old bitch’s family to donate ten times the money they wanted from the kids to the chinese red cross (or any other corrupt organization). Im pretty sure, that would stop people from trying this kind of scam. Jail or even death sentence doesn’t work, but loosing money is what those people really fear.

  • Zappa Frank

    to be frank (I am) I’ve never heard anyone anywhere saying they want to spend time and money to learn a skill just to “help” their country..
    but I agree on your vision about why Chinese rush to escape.

    • linette lee

      In China just because you are smart and hard working don’t necessary get you in high positions. You need family connection. The family members of those corrupt China officials get those positions in the gov’t. So why would the family members who mostly don’t have the skills or intelligence to improve the system and also just wanna to be there to steal more money, want to improve the system? How can people who are intelligence and skilled get into the gov’t system to improve it when they don’t have connection? If you have a Chinese kid who is very smart and study in Uk or USA, graduated from Harvard law school and go back to China to study law, do you think he can get into the China gov’t system to become a judge? NEVERRRR….

  • Zappa Frank

    how come most countries don’t have this problems even without any punishment?

  • Kamui04

    About the Nanjing judge comment on common sense. Yes it’d be common sense in the civilized world to help someone if you accidentally knocked them. But THIS. IS. CHINA! With today’s chinese morals as they are, if someone knocks you over do you expect them to turn around and help you? NO, they’ll be long gone. The people that stop to help are the good samarithans. Anyone blaming them are 100% trying to extort money.

  • YourSupremeCommander

    Even an INFERIOR interior decorator would make a fortune in China.

  • Freddi BuBu

    Sneaky little Chinese women – gotta be careful of them….!

  • Freddi BuBu

    BTW is it mostly the Cantonese who pride themselves in being sneaky and clever…..?

  • linette lee

    The China official steal money because………..THEY CAN. It’s that simply. The China official that’s in power make the rules. And they also put their own family members to work in the gov’t. And almost all of them want to be gov’t employees because they can steal money. Not because they want to help China to get better. They need to relocate their stolen money out of China.

    What make you think English skill can help better China? What does learning another language has another to improve the China gov’t corruption?

  • Kai

    There have been articles (I think cS translated one or two) about arguments between the elderly and younger people on subways/buses over giving up seats. Usually the elderly generalize the young as lacking basic respect and consideration for the elderly. For their part, the younger people generalize the elderly as overly self-entitled and defend themselves as tired from a long day of work, having to pay for the ride (the elderly get free public transportation), and that they are more deserving of the rest from having a seat, etc.

    So there’s definitely been clashes but I have reliably seen people give up their seats for the elderly, pregnant, and handicapped during rush hour, often with multiple people standing up to offer the same person.

    But again, don’t get me wrong, I’ve also seen those who didn’t, though I don’t recall seeing any arguments or fights breaking out as a result (the elderly person just stood or someone else gave up a seat). Sometimes it is so sardine can packed that you can’t even blame the people sitting down for not seeing that an elderly person squeezed into the train car because there’s literally a wall of other commuters right in their face and no one can actually get by even if they wanted to. And there are definitely a lot of selfish egotistical people who don’t have the decency to give up their seat regardless, but overall, at least in my experiences, giving up seats happens the overwheming majority of the time.

  • Zappa Frank

    what are you talking about? police shoots teenager and goes on paid vacation? by the way, like in china police never abused or shoot anyone…

  • filabusta

    Nah just be careful, that’s all.

  • Zappa Frank

    in china is not easy follow that diet, Chinese food is full of carbs and cooked oils.. proteins and good fats are really few

  • mattman183

    How f-n hard is it to create safeguards for people who help in this situation? This happens way too frequently in China for nothing to be done. Yet, time and time again, this is exactly what happens.

  • http://www.economic-undertow.com/ steve_from_virginia

    New York City in the old days, people would step over corpses lying in the street without bothering to look down. Also drunks, traffic/robbery victims, the homeless …

    Now, they go through their pockets …

    : )

  • ytuque

    What a horrible situation to live in the most populated country in the world, and nobody will help.

  • wicky woo

    See THIS is why nobody wants to help elderly up in China….. See, people complain about young Chinese youths spolied. But when a few Chinese youths do the RIGHT thing, Blah blah blah, Filial Piety, blah blah blah, honorable elders blee blee blee. They get shit on….. fuck you, you dirty old hag….

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