Lee Kai-Fu Compares Changchun and New York Car Theft Cases

Ayanna Julbe and stolen Jeep.

Former Google China president and influential Chinese internet personality Lee Kai-Fu posted the following on his Sina Weibo account in response to the recent Changchun car theft case where a baby in the back seat was strangled. At time of translation, his post was reshared over 100k times and had over 30k comments spanning 1500 pages…

On Sina Weibo:

@李开复 [Lee Kai-Fu]: A month ago, a pair of parents in New York went shopping, bringing along their 8-month-old daughter. The father went into a store by himself, and when he showed something from the store window trying to get the mother’s opinion, the mother got out of the car and entered the store, leaving their daughter sound asleep in the still running SUV. Here a thief stole the car and drove two miles before discovering the child in the back seat, immediately parking the car, and calling the police twice, with the infant being rescued within an hour. Police said: “The parents were basket-cases”, arranged a discussion but would not be charging the parents.

Screenshot of article from New York Post about 8-month-old baby Ayanna Julbe being accidentally abducted by a thief stealing the Jeep she was in.

Stolen New York Jeep that was ditched by carjacker after discovering a baby in the backseat.

Comments on Sina Weibo:

年年ipisjohn:

What are you trying to say?

深水鱼:

Foreign thieves are all people of good character and conscience. [good]

古继成_小米:

This is the gap/disparity [between our nations]…

时年1994:

The difference is so large.

马路天狮:

The difference is so big that even the criminals are different.

司马孔吴:

A person with God in his heart could never lay their hands on a cute little infant!

baby说好的爱我呢:

Once again smearing/making fun of our Heavenly Kingdom. [左哼哼]

园区王亚明:

The power of religion.

清静焉知烦扰:

Naked mockery…of Chinese people…

Ernst姜伟:

Americans are still better. Even in crimes, there is a glimmer of humanity and the superiority of their system. Even though the number of dead is high with every school shooting, they’re still about to rouse admiration from even more fans in distant China.

喵呜软爪:

Darling babies, remember to not reincarnate in China in your next lives.

Meain_LAW:

So quick to find a comparison case from Imperialist America.

念念不忘201:

Uh, I think there are good people and bad people anywhere, but the difference in character then separates the bad people into bad people and evil people. Zhou X [the Changchun car thief] is the latter.

慈溪阿权:

I don’t care if this is true or not, I’m immigrating once I have the money.

o13131o:

People all the same, yet why is the difference so large?????

我是毕小薇:

The country you live in is China, a China of special characteristics under socialism.

Bballer:

A vicious slap to the the face of our great socialist with Chinese characteristics morality!

Mr北京小伙儿:

How can a religion-less, morality-less lost people be compared to others? [怒]

Merlin-Ruan:

What’s the point in comparing a light case with a serious case? Why not talk about those cases in America where the thieves rob and kill people and whatnot? When Americans commit crimes, it’s mental illness or clinical depression but when a Chinese thief strangles someone then Chinese people are deemed barbarians? Why do we insist on whitewashing America and smearing ourselves? In our country, the vast majority of thieves would also not be able to bring themselves [to kill the baby].

我是罗老三:

This thief is very professional.

Miss-yangmei:

This is the difference [between our countries]. In some countries, parents not looking after their children is illegal. [围观]

啊are:

As a public figure obscuring the facts with an untrue report, with something that even completely does not exist, what is your intent? [怒] [A few commenters believed Lee Kaifu had made this story up.]

Kylin笑:

The mother has already had a nervous breakdown and entered a mental hospital. Furthermore, their family also has an older daughter. If the father is also sent to prison, what is that child supposed to do? This family is already broken, the pain of a child’s death is already the biggest punishment and lesson for the parents. [Referring to the family involved in the Changchun car theft case.]

梦在科尔沁:

The same thing happened, yet the children’s fates were different. Do our countrymen still have any faith [beliefs, convictions, principles]? A people lacking in faith is the most dangerous of peoples!

官人慢走不送:

Human scum can be found everywhere, it has nothing to do with faith [religion, convictions, etc.].

宇宙超级无敌矩形猫:

Reading the comments, I feel a lot of our countrymen are actually very rational [referring to comments who pointed out that the comparison is unfair]. Indeed, putting this kind of example out in the middle of the storm, regardless of whether it is just to show two extremes… With this kind of thing, everyone is very heartbroken, but to continuously exaggerate and exaggerate, as if the characters of Chinese people have become zero [nothing] when in fact these are just two individual cases that happen to be extremes placed together. I pray for the little baby. [蜡烛][蜡烛][蜡烛]

手机用户3191674640:

Every country has good and bad people, one cannot use one single thing to completely dismiss one’s own country.

夏宁梓然:

… You know fully well that a lot of netizens read your weibo, why make this kind of comparison at this moment? According to these comparisons, everyone might as well emigrate! Stop it. Savage murderous people can be found everywhere. If we want a moderate society, we need even more moderate leaders and public opinions to guide us. Li Kaifu, you should use your leadership strength to call and appeal for improvements to laws! And not making comparisons between two criminals. Comparing two individual cases does not convey the overall issue!

白痴呆呆熊:

Look at the Two Meetings these days, simply a joke. A bunch of government bigwigs saying they represent the ordinary common people’s interest yet stand there making such bullshit proposals. How many years has education reform been raised? What progress has been made?

摄魂怪才:

You posting this microblog post is nothing but ridiculing our countrymen. The innate characters of the criminals involved in these two seemingly similar incidents are different and thus they are not comparable. What is your true intention here? You know it yourself. [鄙视]

巴马爸:

Doing everything you can to demonize Chinese people, but before you demonize Chinese people, first make it clear that you are not surnamed Li/Lee and that you are a purebred American.

-Timomo:

The disparity between Chinese and foreigners. [伤心]

nungesser66:

How come we don’t see you writing about the dark side of America? Is constantly flattering America profitable?

丫儿GDP:

Okay, the difference caused such a big tragedy. This is the fault of the parents, the fault of society, the fault of the government.

-向谈-:

America’s thieves are all models of morality in Liar Lee’s eyes, so what I don’t get is, what is Liar Lee still doing in China?

Nicole16789:

America’s largest social problem is gun businesses buying Congress using the excuse that the people have the right to own guns to protect themselves, thus giving mentally deficient/unstable people the opportunity to commit crimes. So what is China’s biggest social problem? ……Morality ……Integrity.

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  • Fernando

    Well, it seems some people really care more about saving face than looking at the reality of their own crooked government system. It’s true there’s violence anywhere but at least America’s gov’t doesn’t control the media to avoid spreading crime news and to keep their citizens blind to their own reality.

    • El Puma R.

      Exactamente !

    • Chang Liu

      wtf are you talking about whilst I am sure there a plenty of censorship in China this story was all over the news.

  • the ace of books

    Interesting set of reactions – I’m especially fascinated by the jump of nationalist reaction, of “how dare you compare our country and say we’re worse!”.

    Because it’s not a matter of country – it’s a matter of: the Changchun car-thief was a person who was not only able to conceive of, but to justify, to himself, the killing of an infant; the car-thief in the Bronx was unable to justify (or possibly to conceive of) such an act.

    Basically it comes down to two individuals, both products of their countries’ social systems and lack of safety nets – but then they become representatives of their countries’ moral standards.

    • mr.wiener

      tru dat, did you see some of the reactions there?

      “A vicious slap to the the face of our great socialist with Chinese characteristics morality!”[actually I think the this one was sarcastic]

      “Naked mockery…of Chinese people…”

      “Once again smearing/making fun of our Heavenly Kingdom.”

      No different to people anywhere I guess, interesting to see the majority of reactions are actually putting the morality of the Chinese people. Could events like this and Ye ye’s sad story [the little girl run over twice and ignored by passersby] actually become seminal stories that overturn the perceived dominant paradigm of the “Nanjing Judge”?
      I hope so.

    • Anywhere else and this terrible tragedy would be called “what a terrible tragedy”. (in the US this could draw a reaction of “Thanks, Obama!” and “If only that baby was equipped with a handgun to protect herself”); changes may happen as a result, but in China terrible tragedies will draw introspection that will defeat itself.

      In China there’s a need to adhere to a rigorous world view that continually pits the homeland vs the outside world; however, as this world view is an artificial construct used to support various status quos as is necessary for the very operation of Chinese society, any damage to the veneer of lies will quickly gloss over for the need to simply continue.

      With that, I present to you this visual metaphor for the current status of Chinese society and culture in the 21st century:
      (link since comments don’t take kindly to gifs:
      http://www.gifbin.com/983797)

      • Chang Liu

        What you described appears to be common mechanism to re-enforce distinction between ‘in-group’ and ‘out-group’ which happens at every scale, any time, anywhere. Difference is introspection and self-criticism is held-up high as a virtue in traditional Confucian culture, exploited to absurd degrees during the cultural revolution. I hope this story will make would be accidental child stranglers think twice.

        • Sure it happens a lot, everywhere, all over. But you don’t hear about it happening for 5000 years as often.

          It’s a two-headed snake at odds with itself. Some guy posts an anecdotal argument, and the flag-waving come out.

          China doesn’t even need critics. It just needs tragedies to draw out the truth.

          • Chang Liu

            I don’t understand people have been nicking SUV with babies in them for 5000 years?

          • Sure. Didn’t Chinese invent the car seat?

          • Chang Liu

            Hey I am actually trying to understand what 5000 years has got to do with it??? Are you insinuating that China having a long history should be more moral? Have you not read any history of great empires? Longer you’ve been around the more corrupt your morals are likely to be it appears. + China in the last 4 centuries went from one of the richest nation in the world to poorer then most sub-Saharan Africa after the civil war. I suspect morality went out of the window when your prerogative is to survive. And after the current regime’s emphasis on material wealth it would take sometime for it to get better.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            Last 4 centures? things started to go down around 1820/1830. which makes 193 years at best (rounding up, 200 years 2 centuries) not 4 centuries. Besides, the Qing dynasty was extremely rich up until Qianlong/Jiaqing. later the rot slowly came in (during mid/end of qianlong’s reign) which weakened the Qing and the rest we know.

            Just because the Qing were horrible in their conquest, this does not mean that the entire dynasty was fucked up and the nation too. gimme the Qing over the early republic/commie any of these days. they’re just as foreign as the manchurians. oops wait! they’re EVEN more foreign, willingfully adopting western ideals,culture and customs!!! at least during the Qing many Han chinese fought to the death against foreign influence and the Queue order.

            But about morality I agree with you; morality is often forgotten with a empty belly. And just when China is recovering, being ruled with a guy saying that ‘to get rich is glorious’ it makes things even worse.

          • Chang Liu

            Actually I stand by my 4 centuries. UK started to industrialise around that time and caught up in terms of GDP per capita soon after that date, but not until 1800s did they over take China in terms of Total GDP.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            4 centuries? 4 centuries ago would set that in the 1600s… total lie.

            they were only able to do that during the industrial revolution[which i don’t give a fuck either] not during the late Ming/early Qing LOL.

            the only diff is that they didnt got Qing invasion [which destroyed a lot of stuff and people]. but the early Qing managed to recover the nation, putting it above UK LOL.

          • A guy

            He may be referring to the historical constant that is infanticide in China. Not saying I agree with his sentiment, but that may be what he meant.

          • A guy

            I agree with most of your comment too. Though I still hate you from the core of my being.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            Technically we seated on the knees. Later, contact with some nomad tribes (called ‘barbarians’), specifically the Hu tribe, came the ‘barbarian bed’ which was actually a small stool.

            Some 800 years after the Han, during the Tang, chairs were somewhat common.

            But even so, sitting on the knees was something traditionally chinese. thank the heavens we didn’t invent the car seat! o/ o/ o/ wansui!

    • Kai

      If I understand correctly, agreed, the problem here is making two individuals representatives of their country’s moral standards. It doesn’t make sense to use this one Bronx thief just as it wouldn’t make sense to use Charles Manson. Reverse the scenario and there would be outrage too but from a different side.

  • ASDF

    The disparity in morals reflects the disparity in GDP/capita. Political ideology and religious affiliation is irrelevant. Can’t believe people are so easily converted or brainwashed by these silly comparisons.

    • I must agree.

      • Wang that!

        I 2nd your comment

    • KAMIKAZIPILOT

      For the most part I agree. It’s probably because citizens in countries with higher GDP/capita have more time and money to spend on social and moral issues. People in lower GDP countries are just trying to get by in life and moral issues often get pushed to the side.

      • El Puma R.

        But China has the highest GDP in the world man… what can you say about that? In my own opinion all that gdp is wasted on iphones and “luxury” for the gvt officials and their children. Who needs morality when you can drive a brand new SUV without knowing where the money came from.

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          I actually meant GDP per capita. While I believe China has the 2nd largest GDP in the world behind the US, China’s GDP/capita is well below all developed economies. The political system probably plays a part in the morality of the people but the biggest influence by far has to do with economics.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            What about the inequal distribution AND sheer population size?? the only country which we can compare [on matters of populational size] is India, which is behind China.

            One thing is to distribute in a shitty small nation. another thing is do to it properly on 1billion and 400m. [possibly even more]

            China has basically more people than the entire fucking so-called ”1st world” ever had, so that’s a totally different issue.

        • Chang Liu

          Dude you never ever check the so called ‘facts’ you are spewing forth do you.

      • Chang Liu

        Errm it may play a part but I suspect it is not that simple. I hope there are more follow up to the case and not some stupid cheap shots like this article.

    • Chang Liu

      Broadly speak that might be true. But how can you measure morals? What is perhaps a better indicator of valuing fellow human life is to look at the homicide rate per capita since it is a murder case we are talking about here. China has 1/4 number of murders as USA per capita but 4 times lower GDP per capita. Even United Kingdom has slightly higher murder rate then China (to my own shock).

      • Kai

        Eh, I wouldn’t go down this route. There are two many seemingly persuasive ways to measure value of human life with statistics to make just about any country look bad for all of them. Do we bring up gun control laws? How about abortion rates? Levels of state-mandated wealth redistribution? Strictness of safety label regulations? Whatever we do would be an oversimplification of the issue that results in people wrongly pointing fingers and patting themselves on the back.

        I agree with your reservation on ASDF’s comment though. that level of development does generally correlate with something as hard to define as morality but isn’t a perfect correlation.

        • Chang Liu

          You are right I wouldn’t go down this route either! (See my other post) I feel the need to point out this logic is flawed.

  • vincent

    Nicole16789:

    America’s largest social problem is gun businesses buying Congress using the excuse that the people have the right to own guns to protect themselves, thus giving mentally deficient/unstable people the opportunity to commit crimes. So what is China’s biggest social problem? ……Morality ……Integrity.

    This comment pretty much asks a very pertinent question. I wonder what would happen if owning firearms were legalized in China.

    • x1sfg

      No, it’s people like you who don’t understand our country’s history, or the rationale and the philosophy behind the right to bear arms which was a very common idea during the Enlightenment. I don’t see how the gun control is even relevant to this case or the New York case. It just shows how ignorant you really are.

      Yes, there is a gun lobby, just as there is an anti-gun lobby. Sad as it is, money talks in politics.

      If you honestly think the lack of gun restrictions is what causes mentally unstable people to commit crimes, you’re just as brainwashed as the Chinese. Gun laws are working well in Mexico, California, NYC, and Chicago, right? Simple economic and social theory. When there’s a demand, people are going to get it one way or another, legal or not. Prohibition worked, right? The War on Drugs?

      You’ll also be a fool to compare the US and a country like Japan, that has strict gun laws yet very little crime. It’s like saying banning alcohol will work in Ireland because it works in Muslim countries or Mormon communities.

      If you aren’t going to exercise the natural right to self-defense, that’s your prerogative. Only thing is our Framers said the right to bear arms doesn’t come from the Constitution, it’s a natural right, the Constitution only protects it from being infringed. Oh yeah, SCOTUS also ruled that it’s not the police’s job to protect you as in if they don’t arrive in time to save you, they can’t be sued. It’s a personal responsibility first and foremost.
      Look up DC vs. Heller, as well as the 8 other SCOTUS rulings
      http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf
      The Constitution is there to protect us from fools like you and me.

      You touched on a good point, well, sort of about the mentally unstable. Treat the cause, not how the mentally unstable use weapons.

      • vincent

        I quoted a translated comment in case you didn’t notice, in my opinion gun ownership is a right but certain background checks could be done in order to prevent the mentally unstable from possessing firearms.

        Now in China for example the subject of mental instability has not been given proper attention and you can read in previous articles about how some loon with a knife attacks people, or for example that stabbing where the guy went to a kindergarten and stabbed numerous kids, now imagine if he had a gun, not a pretty picture right.

        Next time please read the full article and translated comments before attacking my mental faculties lol =.=”

        • Chang Liu

          You are right, China appears to have quite a few nutters willing to go out with a bang. Giving them firearms is probably a bad idea.

      • Chang Liu

        I get the original context of right to bear arms. But things have moved on. Technology change. Having a population bearing arms is no longer a sufficient deterrent to state tyranny, we have corporate and fiance sector for a sneaky back door entry to cover that. It is however a convenient tool for select adolescents to vent their frustration.

      • Joe

        “No, it’s people like you who don’t understand our country’s history, or the rationale and the philosophy behind the right to bear arms which was a very common idea during the Enlightenment.”

        ^Um..”our country’s history” and 2013 are very different things.

      • Rick in China

        RE: “Gun laws are working well in Mexico, California, NYC, and Chicago”

        Stupid arguments.

        Gun control works in isolated countries (Japan, UK, China, whatever) because there isn’t an easy way to get guns there illegally from outside sources. Smuggling a legally purchased gun into Cali, NYC, Chicago – is as easy as driving across a state line, going to walmart, and driving back. _That’s_ why it isn’t working in states where gun control is heavily restricted – because you can simply go to your neighbouring state and pick up whatever you want with no realistic chance being caught bringing it into a restricted state. Same thing with Mexico, huge border, tons of smuggling. Ridiculous argument point on the issue of gun control.

        Saying you need an AR-15 for self defense is just a ridiculous statement. You need a concealed hand gun to go to the supermarket, because you’re very likely to get jacked right? The simple point is – the more people have guns, the more people die by guns. People who have firearms in their home for “self-defense” are multitudes more likely to die during home invasions than people who don’t, and very often it’s by their own weapons. Your argument is republican rhetoric and based very little on fact.

        • xiaohouzi

          Finally, someone who gets it.

      • xiaohouzi

        The problem with this is that one never knows who is going to crack. It would make more sense to take away the weapons than to treat every potential nut job when we don’t know who all of the nut jobs are. One of the reasons i live in China and Europe is because of the attitude most Americans have where my family lives.

    • Chang Liu

      I am not sure you can draw any moral conclusion from this. Lets be objective here. Homicide rate in China is relatively low as is through out East Asia.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
      China: 1/100,000
      Hongkong: 0.2/100,000
      United States: 4.2/100,000
      United Kingdom: 1.2/100,000
      I am pretty certain if you are going to make generalisation about the ‘Character’ of a nation (which I wouldn’t) then this is probably a better place to start. Now tell me what ‘moral’ conclusion can you draw about valuing the life of a fellow human being these statistics?

      • vincent

        Well as to being objective I’m not so sure that official ‘information’ is actually very accurate especially when it comes from China there are a few articles in the CS archives that would attest to this point.
        In my opinion I believe a subjective view is better because of differences in culture, media and beliefs, I’m not going to go too much into that because I’m lazy, but I think you can understand where I would go with that.
        It isn’t the numbers game that worries me but the lack of change to prevent such ridiculous incidents as that ‘Nanjing Case’ where the judge made a ruling so ludicrous that it now forces the common man to think twice about helping those in need.
        There are some articles that point to a moral vacuum in China such as victims of hit and runs who are then murdered by the perpetrators? What the hell is that, is it more convenient? Changes have to be made so that the average Chinese can benefit from the economic rise of the country, not just those with deep pockets and good connections.
        It would be great to see people helping each other such as in the case of the Changchun car thief, people actively helping to look for the baby, although the incident ended in tragedy.

        From the translated comments it is quite evident that the general populace does not have much faith in the government or in each other, this is going to hurt in the long run, in any case let’s hope things change for the better.

        • Chang Liu

          What do you mean it ‘would be great’ when Changchun people DID actually go out of their way to help? I agree with you about inaccurate stats and about the ‘Nanjing Case’ although I suspect it is not the whole story. I also think there are other factors at play.

          1. China’s particular strong regionalism and long isolation of those said regions by the hukou system means that people identify with each other less when suddenly mixed on a free labor market.

          2. The ‘Rolling Migration’ pattern of where you come to the city and make money then take it back means that you are not a stakeholder in your adoptive city making life more alienating (Jia Zhangke’s films brilliantly explores such issues).

          3. The sudden explosion of new money driving distances between people without adequate culture/institutions evolving to ease the friction.

          I am sure there are many more but all those tend to alienate people from each other. However I do feel the need to point out that again this isn’t a problem peculiar to China or Chinese people. It is a common problem caused by rapid urbanization and industrialisation (with certain Chinese characteristics but the net effect is still the same). Europe in particular if you read the history of London and Paris, more recently Brazil or India similar cases are a dime a dozen. The fact that people are trying to force judgement on ‘Chinese Character’ on such cases are either, ignorant of their own developmental history or racist.

          • vincent

            lol that’s exactly what I said about the Changchun folk, that they DID go out of their way to help search for the baby, how did you interpret it otherwise :P What I was trying to get across was that I hope that more people in all parts of China take a proactive stance to helping their fellow human.

          • Chang Liu

            Well I apologise if i misunderstood the sentence. I really need to read things twice sometimes :).

    • Kai

      Heh, in previous cS posts about similar instances of crime, I recall Chinese netizens reliably producing comments joking that the population of China would be much lower if people had access to guns.

      Granted, they’re thinking of Chinese society as it is right now and all the reasons ordinary Chinese people would flip out and start shooting things up, and if guns were historically legal, the landscape of Chinese society could well be very different.

      • vincent

        Haha I remember that as well, was wondering when someone would bring that up :D

  • Rick in China

    It’s simply logic.

    If you steal a car, you get charged with grand theft auto.

    If the car has a baby, you get charged with kidnapping.

    If you kill the baby, you get charged with murder.

    Why the fuck would someone who wants some quick cash stealing/chopping a car want to up his potential penalty if/when caught from a light prison sentence to a heavy one, or life/death penalty. Regardless of the morality issue, it’s just logical sense and balance of risk/reward.

    • Rick in China

      I thinkin New York, FYI, the escalation for the 3 above crimes would be like:

      GTA: Up to 4 years (first offense)

      Kidnapping: 5-25 mandatory

      Murder (1st deg): Life without parole

    • But how does logic fit into the criminal mind?

      As per a Mr Boffo cartoon, when a robber sees money that isn’t his that he wants to rob, he’s thinking “WIN 500$ INSTANTLY!”

    • sendtodave

      However, in China:

      You steal a car, you are fucked, and you might get executed
      You kidnap a baby, you are fucked, and you might get executed
      You murder the baby, you are fucked, and you might get executed

      When all punishments are harsh, all crimes are the same.

  • KAMIKAZIPILOT

    This article is almost useles. If using anecdotal evidence to make an argument, anyone can argue almost anything.

    • willie miller

      Well said, totally agree.

    • BiggJ

      Yep, There are crazy fuckers in every country in the world. It’s like judging all Canadians by that gay porn guy who murdered his chinese lover. In this case one guy was crazier then the other. Nothing to do with country.

      • Chang Liu

        Trudat.

      • Jahar

        you mean we aren’t all like that?

    • Definition: Weibo and all of the Chinese internet

    • I think everyone is well aware of that.
      Admit to yourself that you are here for the entertainment value. Not for valuable journalism or insightful treatises. If you are, you are seriously at the wrong website.

      • Chang Liu

        Actually according to the editors ChinaSmack views it self as a portal of communication and understanding between East and West and this is their chosen format.

        • “portal of communication and understanding between East and West.”
          Given my experience with many different forms of internet “communication” *cough 4chan*. I agree with that statement. However, I continue to stand by my previous statement…….

          • Chang Liu

            I know, I was being sarcastic…

          • You got me good…

            But it seems like… with the thumbs down on my post – I was wrong, and most people on this site seem to be taking these articles very seriously. :/

      • KAMIKAZIPILOT

        Not everyone is aware of what I said, although most reasonable people should be. There’s people everywhere using anecdotal evidence to make arguments. It goes without saying that I, as well as most CS posters, come here for the entertainment value.

        • Chang Liu

          Thank you! But according to Kai, I come here to get in-dignified at ignorant comments. Hey we all gotta get our kicks some how :).

          • Kai

            Man, you gotta learn to not develop a grudge against people who have simply disagreed with you before and only on certain things.

            I never said you you come here to get offended at ignorant comments. I said you got unreasonably indignant by someone’s opinion that Bruce Lee is the most famous Chinese person, without being able to persuasively articulate why that opinion is actually “ignorant”. For someone who reliably uses “what was actually said” in arguments, you sure have a bad habit of unapologetically putting words in other people’s mouths.

          • Chang Liu

            LOL I am having a blast.

    • Kai

      Are you referring to Lee Kaifu posting it to make a comparison between the US and China? Or about cS translating it because it was a popular trending post on Sina Weibo?

      • KAMIKAZIPILOT

        I’m referring to Lee Kaifu posting it to make a comparison between the US and China. Actually CS translating the Chinese comments gives interesting insight into what Chinese netizens are thinking and the logic they use.

        • Kai

          Cool, that’s what I initially thought but some of the comments in response to you made me question if I had understood you correctly.

  • El Puma R.

    “How come we don’t see you writing about the dark side of America? Is constantly flattering America profitable?”

    you don’t need anyone writing about America.. for that you have CCTV 1 news at 7 pm every day and they all have you pretty brainwashed already.

    I’m glad I am not in China anymore, I couldn’t stand seeing them denying all their wrongs just to save some face.. which was already lost long long ago.

    • Chang Liu

      Why are you spending inordinate amount of time here talking about it then? It is not like you have anything valuable to contribute.

    • Alex

      jajaja yup, that’s the cctv news for ya.

      3 main parts:

      1)Our leaders are super busy doing a lot of stuff for the people!

      2)Chinese are SO SO SO SO happy.

      3)”Waiguo”(yeah, that’s a country) is super unhappy, unsafe, and risky!!

      Will leave this place soon too. For my health, my sanity, and so I can actually live a mostly not unfair life.

  • ric

    wtf is he trying to make a generalization with these two cases? fuck off m8

  • Chang Liu

    This is no ordinary crime. I hope more information will be available about the killer and his motives. I just get the feeling there is more to it.

  • cc

    Society is to blame, no one cares about anyone in this country until after the deed is done. Irresponsible parents who allow there kids to wander around busy streets and get run over and now this, i mean what a good idea, lets leave the car running and leave the kid in there on its own. Opportunity knocks for the thief due to the irresponsible parent/s. And then the thief who obviously has the morals of a Hyena panics and snuffs out an innocent child’s life. Nothing surprises me about this shithole country anymore.

    • Chang Liu

      Dude chill, after the recent munch-face-off-man and hack-your-gay-lover-and-make-video-on-the-internet-man, oh oh lets not for get, imprison-your-own-daughter-in-basement-over-forty-years-man, I’d say your frustration is misplaced.

  • A Lu

    It’s useless to compare one thief in the US with the one in Changchun. You can’t imply that american/western thieves are more human than chinese ones because of this one episode.
    The parents in Changchun as well as the ones in New York are idiots that shouldn’t be allowed to breed. That’s it.

  • Ralphrepo

    Once again, Chinese compare themselves to their greatest enemy and idol, America; such a love hate relationship. IMHO, these cases were similar, but the responses of the thieves, both who nominally started as an average crook, offers an examination of both the Chinese and American mindset. To the average American, life is precious. To the average Chinese, it isn’t; not even another Chinese’s life.

    I’ve said this in other posts, but it is my firm opinion that this perspective on the sanctity of life is an outgrowth of both communism (as practiced by the CCP) and the one child policy vis a vis its disastrous effect on the structure of Chinese family. In China, there are no more brothers or sister, aunts and uncles, cousins or other extended family. If mom and dad were no longer there; unless one is married or have a kid (notice no accompanying letter ‘s’ to denote plural possibility as there is no chance of that), one is genuinely alone amongst the masses. It then becomes easy for increasing numbers of present day Chinese to feel disconnected from having or even needing a sense of community.

    The thief in the US, not only was remorseful, he notified the authorities in a timely fashion, indicating clearly that he had genuine concern over the child’s welfare. In the Chinese example, the response of the culprit could be described as being as coldly dispassionate as The Terminator. The baby, after having been discovered in the back, was looked upon as excess baggage, a liability that needed to be quickly disposed of without drawing attention. The long term ingrained philosophy critically needed to place human value on the child’s life was absolutely absent from this thief’s mind.

    So just how did China raise such people? Thank you, Comrade Mao.

    • Chang Liu

      Unbelievable! you actually took the bait.

    • Kai

      Do you believe Taiwanese people are Chinese? If not, then it might be important to remember that Lee Kaifu is Taiwanese-American. The comparisons are being made by Chinese netizens because he kick-started it.

      His reasoning is probably fairly mundane and given how smart and accomplished he is, he probably recognizes the fallacy of his comparison too by now. It’s likely an emotional reaction, which is understandable, rather than him being some sort of instrument of hostile foreign propaganda (as some hypernationalistic Chinese netizens might argue).

      I find the rest of your comment and firm opinion to be faulty, and mostly rationalizations for the extreme generalization of saying the average Chinese person doesn’t consider life precious but Americans do. My general position is that socio-economic norms have a higher correlation with social perceptions of the sanctity of life than either communism or the OCP.

      For communism, the rebuttal is simple. Life was cheap in the West’s own industrial age despite being capitalist societies that rejected communist ideology.

      For the OCP, it can be argued that population control to preserve resources to sustain life and living standards does not devalue life but puts it in context of a reality of limited resources and existing social needs unmet.

      As well, it’s actually surprising for you to suggest there are no more extended families in China. Anyone who has been here would usually say the Chinese are a lot bigger on extended families than many Westerners, especially with how much trouble they go through for their family reunions. Sure, many Chinese don’t have brothers and sisters these days, but how could you say they don’t have cousins, aunts, and uncles? The OCP has only been effect for like 1, maybe 2 generations. Chinese who don’t have natural brothers and sisters often treat their cousins as brothers and sisters, playing with them all the time, often because their aunts and uncles live nearby. Of course, not all Chinese are like this, especially with migrant worker populations, but your generalization is grossly inaccurate all the same.

      And do you have any idea what proportion of the population is actually exempt from the OCP and the trends of loosening the OCP throughout China? Ethnic minorities are exempt with wide swaths of the rural population as well as urban populations where if both spouses were the only children, they can have more than one child.

      There surely are feelings of loneliness and angst in Chinese society, but you’re exaggerating for dramatic effect I think, weaving some intricate pseudo-historical context for why Chinese people apparently feel disconnected, have no community, and thus don’t value life as precious. Don’t get me wrong, there are disenfranchised and forgotten segments in China, many reported before here on cS, but dude, you’re exaggerating a whole lot here to justify a gross prejudice.

      About the thief in the US, we can all agree we think he’s a minimally decent person for choosing to ditch the car and make sure the police found the kid. However, if you read the reports, I think he traveled a good 40 minutes away and ensured he’d be able to get away without getting caught before reporting. The guy is still a criminal, just not that hard of a criminal. That’s good, compared to the Changchun guy, but using him as a representative of American people is as unreasonable as using Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dalhmer.

      Your demonization of the Changchun thief as being coldly dispassionate as the terminator is also driven by what you want to paint rather than what you actually can determine from any information you have. You could describe his act of strangling the baby as coldly dispassionate, or you could describe it as someone in a panic, the very opposite of dispassionate. Are you so unfamiliar with people doing terrible things in a state of panic? Do you need examples from American history?

      Finally, placing all of this at the feet of Mao, as detestable and regrettable as we may find him to have been, is another jump in logic. It’s poetic, dramatic, even eloquent how you tied everything up into a neat bundle, but come on, do you seriously buy into everything you’ve said here without seeing just how full of holes it is?

      This is a very worthwhile discussion topic, but I think it needs more effort than this.

      • Chang Liu

        I scanned it and agree, but please, abbreviate where necessary, life is too short.

        • Kai

          I’m not sure what else I could abbreviate except One Child Policy as OCP. There might be a few other terms but I don’t think it’d change the length of my comment much.

          I know I can write a lot but I often feel nuance begets length while making things shorter often results in oversimplifying things and thus doing the subject no justice.

    • linette lee

      every country have crazy people. It’s silly to compare this story to the china story. What about the thousand other murder case happen in USA? And that crazy gunman killed 20 something 6 yr kids in Connecticut?

  • Alphy

    This article illustrates that most people live in a bubble and assumes too many thing about their society. You cannot just take one incident in US and compare it with a worst one in China then make a conclusion. It doesn’t say anything about the society in China compare with US. Both countries are huge and contain equally huge demographics, many of them are murders without conscience.

    You could however draw much more meaningful conclusion out from policy, and statistic. For example, in China as listed by UNODC there were 13,410 homicide compare with US’s 12,996. If accounting for population the rate per 100,000 is 1 in China where as US is 4.2! Clearly by looking at statistic, you are much more likely to get kill in US than in China, more than 4 times as likely.
    http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/crime/Homicide_statistics2012.xls

    • Xiu

      Only… serious crimes (such as homicide) are far more likely to be reported in a nation that has superior policing and law. Without pulling meaningless figures out of my ass, I would say that you are probably twice as likely to get killed in China, however, you have 6 times less chance of getting the crime reported. Those stats have little to no meaning.

      • Alphy

        But you just came up with those number out of your.. while I quoted UN statistic…

        The number in China seems quite legit even if you somehow doubt UN statistics. First of all US homicide rate is known to be extremely high compare to rest of the developed world which invalided your argument on lack of policing and law unless you claim all other developed countries don’t have that…. For example, per 100,000 ratio Germany has around 0.8, Spain 0.8, Japan has 0.4, Hong Kong has 0.2! Secondly, China has very straight gun control (its very illegal), and in general people do feel quite safe in the big cities of China.

      • Chang Liu

        True, homicide does not include accidental death such as traffic accidents. I am willing to guess that figure is higher and growing. Basically you are less like to be murdered in China but more likely to be run over (or die of pollution related illnesses).

    • Xiu

      Also… which reality has 1 US citizen for every 100,000 Chinese one? Last time I looked it was about a ratio of 4/1

      • Xiu

        Ooops… I read that wrong. Still, the other comment holds validity

    • Chang Liu

      Basically what I said earlier.

  • Xiu

    Bit of a meaningless observation… you can’t compare 1 random to another with the hope that there is a correlation. But… it does have a point. The poster obviously wants to inspire even the lowest of society to abide by societies rules. Or at least the rules of moral human behaviour. Shaming the ultranational outlook by making comparisons with another (more successful) is just one way of doing that. Anyway… Glad to see that about 40% of the comments realise that every nation has crazies and loonies.

  • Did he read this news today from USA

    NY man charged in crash that killed couple, baby

    A man arrested in connection with a New York car crash that killed a rabbinical college student, his pregnant wife and their baby was charged with criminally negligent homicide and other offenses.

    Acevedo, 44, was accused of barreling down a Brooklyn street at 60 mph early Sunday and crashing into a hired car carrying Nachman and Raizy Glauber, who were on their way to a hospital.

    The car that had been carrying them had a stop sign, though it’s unclear whether the driver stopped. The driver was knocked unconscious.

    The Glaubers, both 21, died Sunday. Their son, delivered by cesarean section, died Monday.

    Google it for more info

  • wackkky

    its an act of individual it has nothing to do with race, color or enthinicity. its not that there arent cases in us or other pars of the world rather than china killing children.

  • crimsonarmor

    Why on earth do people refer China as the Heavenly kingdom? if its so heavenly why do Chinese people feel so unhappy there? and moan about rape, theft, murder and corruption constantly! If that’s your idea of heavenly kingdom I would hate to think of your version of Hell. There’s good and bad in every country but obviously a larger population may produce larger amounts of something be it honesty or corruption.

  • tp

    when will people stop paying attention to lee kaifu. he’s a professional thief and a private troll of enormous proportions.

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