Myths Chinese Girls Have About ‘Laowai’ Foreign Men

Chinese Lover cover art.

Here is the third part of our translation of a popular post from Tianya, a major Chinese online discussion forum. In Part 1, he discussed the differences between Chinese and foreign men that result in foreign men having more success when it comes to picking up girls. In Part 2, he shared several anecdotes and conversations he had with his foreign male friends about their love lives.

From Tianya:

[...]

Below I’ll talk a bit about some of the false notions/myths our countrymen have about laowai.

@Myths Among Girls@

Myth #1: I am free, I am proud.

This is a myth that exists among many Chinese girls, thinking “I’m just enjoying my sexual freedom. I, one, am not taking any money and two, am not receiving gifts. I’m not after any material benefit, so my having sex [with laowai] is noble, elegant, and dignified. It is Sister [referring to oneself] who played the laowai, not the laowai who played Sister.”

This happens to be the biggest mistake/myth, because for many poor laowai, there are only two types of women in China: 1) Prostitutes; 2) Free women. However, do they respect free women more? Negative. The women that laowai look down on more are not the prostitutes, but the women they can get without spending any money, because this kind of women wants nothing but laowai dick [The original Chinese expression can be literally interpreted as “the seven inches below a laowai’s crotch”]. In men’s eyes, this kind of women is slutty, depraved, without self-respect, cheap, and stupid. So when laowai say that Chinese girls are “easy girls”, they’re referring to those girls [who have sex with laowai] without asking for money.

Another kind of laowai in China are not poor, but they are shrewd. These laowai are adept at picking up girls. In their eyes, there are also two kinds of Chinese women: 1) Smart girls; 2) SB girls. While it takes a lot of energy and money to attain the first kind of girls, it’s very convenient to get the second kind of girls who come fast and easy just like a buffet. When a man really likes a girl, he is actually not afraid of spending money to pursue her. What he fears is that the girl is so cheap that anyone can get her.

There are some shrewd laowai who will tell you during the first few dates: I feel that in China there are many girls who just want my money and a green card, but don’t really love me. I want to find someone that loves me for who I am.

The unspoken words: Let me fuck you for free. It will show that you are noble and dignified. Free girls are good girls. (17-yuan brother [mentioned in the post title] confessed to me that this is precisely the goal when he says Chinese girls are gold-diggers, to make these girls ashamed to ask for money [lest they be seen as gold-diggers].)

Many girls fall into this trap. They think: I didn’t ask for money, so why do you still look down on me? I am free, [so] I am noble. You laowai should of course respect me. However, the reality is, that 17-yuan Brother and other laowai in China call these girls “SLUTS”, “bitches” and “easy girls” behind their backs.

The only reason why they don’t call these girls prostitutes is because prostitutes cost money. In laowai’s eyes, these kind of girls are idiots or female nymphomaniacs, and are less deserving of respect than prostitutes.

If a woman is unable to make a man spend energy and money in pursuing her, then to this man, she is without value, to be dumped like a napkin at any time. (I feel this statement could also be applied to Chinese men.)

Romantic foreigners.

Myth #2: Chinese men are more practical, laowai are more romantic.

It’s actually the complete opposite. Many Chinese men are really innocent and pure, dull on the surface but romantic on the inside, able to save a lifetime’s worth of money just to buy a house to marry you.

Whereas laowai are very selfish and self-interested, spending all their money on themselves, only considering how to live a carefree, comfortable, and pleasurable life, and will never spend all his savings just to marry a woman. Especially the poor laowai in China, they often hope to get financial support from women.

Chinese men, in their bones, are simple and gullible. You only need act cute or use some small tricks and they will fall in love with you.

Laowai in China are all misers. Playing tricks on them is useless. Laowai are very cool-headed and savvy, always calculating what they can get. Many laowai are passionate when dating Chinese girls, but as soon as you bring up the topic of getting married, they slip away, because they are very clear that what the Chinese girl wants is a long-term meal ticket [commitment], whereas the laowai just wants a long-term free sex partner.

The reason why laowai in China don’t want to marry Chinese girls: Money.

Chinese men are usually very practical at the early stages of a relationship, but they become very romantic after you are together. When they first meet you, they will ask about your job, educational level, and family background. Many girls become uncomfortable at that moment, and then just “pass” on this dumb guy.

Laowai are the complete opposite. They are very romantic at the very beginning, but become very practical once you are together. When a laowai starts dating a girl, he follows his feelings only, because either way, when it comes to picking up girls, he has nothing to lose. He won’t pay attention to or ask about your personal matters, but when you want to talk about marriage with him, or officially become his girlfriend, that laowai will start calculating: Will marrying this girl be worthwhile, practical, beneficial?

So when many girls who have been with laowai for many years eventually broach the topic of marriage, it becomes a tragedy. The laowai starts calculating.

Myth #3: Laowai men like open-minded and forward girls. Just be proactive and you can win laowai‘s heart.

No, men’s nature is to hunt, they don’t like the food that comes easily. Those excessively open and forward girls, any man will enjoy them for a little bit, and then dump them. They will never be serious with those girls. In this regard, laowai and Chinese men are the same.

Some of my laowai friends always have some brain-damaged [stupid or crazy] girls constantly calling them or sending them text messages, asking about them every day, even when they are ignored and don’t get replies. To be pestered like this, laowai despise these girls a lot, thinking it is strange that they have so little self-respect, that they must have mental problems.

An American friend even begged me to answer a call and tell the girl that he changed his phone number and that the number is now mine.

Laowai also often complain that many Chinese girls, on the first meeting, say they love them and want to marry them, or after a one-night stand, cling to them refusing to let them go, demanding to be their girlfriends.

When mentioning those girls, my laowai friends always use a contemptuous, helpless, amused, and mocking tone.

A laowai told me, “I don’t understand why it is so easy for the Chinese girls to fall in love. If I like her, I will take the initiative to pursue her; even if she didn’t like me, I would still pursue her. I can’t stand those narcissistic women who assume that I love them and demand to be my girlfriends as long as I say something nice about them. Those who say they want to marry me are even more annoying. Proposing is a man’s business. It’s really weird when a woman proposes.

Asian couple holding hands.

Myth #4: Chinese men seek mistresses, while laowai are even more loyal after marriage.

Sorry, girls, the laowai men who become even more loyal and devoted after marriage refers to the normal laowai abroad [living in their home countries]. They indeed don’t go out looking for mistresses [don't cheat on their wives].

When it comes to laowai in China, after they marry you, there is a 95% probability that they will have extramarital affairs.

Why? First, laowai feel Chinese girls have a unique sexual appeal to them. This kind of appeal is not something that only you have, but rather something that every Chinese girl they see — whether beautiful or ugly, tall or short — has.

Second, China has many girls with no self-respect that will “climb on the stick”, regardless of whether or not you’re married or already have eight kids. If they want to interfere with your marriage, you wouldn’t be able to stop them. After marriage, the amount of temptations for laowai [in China] is the same as before marriage.

Third, if Chinese men have extramarital affairs for sexual pleasure, they won’t divorce you, but many laowai will want a divorce after having an extramarital affair, because they only care about their own happiness. If you can’t bring him the happiness their lover does, then he will want to divorce you.

And [after divorcing you], it will always be another woman sleeping on their bed.

There’s also a British friend, who pursued a girl for a long time and finally got her, only to dump her two weeks later. I asked him why. He said, “This girl is very pretty, but is very boring in bed, unable to accept anal sex or oral sex, nor does she know how to be on top. Too conservative. I wasn’t happy when I was with her.”

Most laowai are very practical when looking for girlfriends. You must be able to satisfy their various sexual peculiarities.

Laowai have many advantages and tricks that Chinese men don’t have when it comes to picking up girls. Chinese men pick up girls using instincts, whereas laowai use intellect.

When it comes to Chinese men meeting girls, there are usually two types: One type is the totally serious and earnest type, asking about the other person’s state of affairs, their family, their work, etc. Your purpose in doing so is to develop a relationship, but the girl will think you are a boring and annoying person. The second type is the obscene type, who is immediately touchy-feely upon meeting the girl, or tries to kiss the girl by force, or bring up sex topics. This type of men is usually despised and loathed by girls.

In contrast, when laowai meet girls, they, one, don’t ask about family and, two, don’t talk about work; they only talk about light-hearted and romantic topics, such as “I went to Vienna last week”, “I’m learning the piano this month”, “I’m very interested in Chinese history and culture”, etc. first creating a very relaxing and comfortable environment to make you let your guard down. This is the first step in picking up a girl. If you cannot make a girl relax, then you’ll have to forget about picking her up. When a girl feel relaxed, without pressure, and begins yearning for this sort of laowai high-end lifestyle, that’s when their belts start getting loose.

Next, laowai begin using their skills in complimenting and flattery, which is shamelessly praising the girl to the extreme. Even if this girl is plain-looking, he will flatter her as rare goddess, or he would compliment your intelligence, saying that you are the smartest and wisest girl he has ever met, that you will definitely have a bright future. Another trick is to make the girl feel that she is very special, very unique. He would adulate you: You are different from other girls; I think you are very special; you are like from another planet; your opinions and ideas are all very special, and I really admire you. With this kind of ploy, girls will very easily get carried away and forget themselves. This is the so-called killing with flattery, and now the belt gets even looser. (Damn it, any woman of a normal sexual orientation [heterosexual] would be unable to resist this method of pursuing someone. Who doesn’t like listening to nice words? How come Chinese men are so stingy when it comes to saying these things??)

Next, the laowai makes a move, but not like obscene Chinese men who suddenly start kissing by force or grabbing the boobs, scaring the girl away. Every laowai man is adept at flirting. He will first gaze at the girl, first seducing with his eyes, and this gazing will be one of infatuation and admiration, making you feel as if you’ve suddenly become the most beautiful woman. Then he will gently touch your arm, whisper flattering words in your ears, and at the same time blow in your ear, arousing a girl’s lust. Here, many girls will find it difficult to control themselves. Facing a romantic, wealthy, tasteful, deep, sweet man, who wouldn’t be moved/tempted?

Then the laowai who knows how to read women will evaluate the situation. If this woman has been aroused by his seduction, then he can passionately kiss her or caress her back and waist. If not, then he will wait patiently for while, say even more flattering sweet words, gaze at her a little longer, etc.

Under this circumstance, those girls who are used to the obscene and stupid Chinese men will usually be unable to control themselves, and their belts will be mostly loosened.

Finally, the laowai will make an invitation, but not like some of the SB men in China who ask: Do you want to come to my place?

Laowai will ask indirectly: I have some good movies. Would you like to go to my place to have some red wine, watch some DVDs, and listen to some music?

Here, the belts of quite a lot of Chinese girls will have completely fallen off, blindly going home with the laowai, totally manipulated.

The pickup techniques of laowai include many other advanced techniques, techniques that Chinese men wouldn’t be able to learn quickly, and even if you were to spend the time to learn them, it’d still take longer to master them. But you guys need to know where the difference in level is between you guys and laowai. Don’t just close your eyes and YY [delude yourselves] that the only reason women fall for them is because laowai have big JJ.

After all is said, some girls still don’t get it. Don’t pay for the laowai, don’t be free, don’t “climb on the stick”, don’t use them to satisfy your physiological needs. Do you think doing so and giving laowai the impression of being a free female animal is honorable and glorious?

China’s international image is currently on the rise. Foreigners all very much envy us, knowing that China will become the number 1 world power, so some girls need to stop bringing shame upon our motherland.

Actually, I used to think that no matter how bad Chinese girls are, they still have a better reputation than Thai girls. However, several days ago, a laowai friend of mine living in China said he was going to take a trip to Thailand, so I asked him casually: “Do you like going to Thailand because there are more easy girls there?”

He said, “There are a lot of easy girls in China too.”

I asked him another question, “Then between Thailand and China, which country’s girls are easier?”

This laowai didn’t even think before firmly answering, “They’re about the same.”

Many Chinese people think laowai are relatively kind and simple, that love is love, without any other goals or intentions, and since they don’t care about appearances or age, nor do they ask about the woman’s job or family background, laowai’s love is even more pure and simple.

Even many celebrities hold this belief when marrying laowai, but the truth is, many laowai in China are vain and avaricious, doing whatever they can to pursue any women they see who seem to be from a rich or connected family. What more, laowai love going after female stars, whereas Chinese feel intimidated when facing a female celebrity, not daring to pursue them. However, laowai aren’t afraid, racking their brains to chase stars who have fame and fortune.

This kind of pursuit is different from when they pursue and trick girls from poor families, not just using flattery and text messages. When laowai really want to get a woman, they will use persistence/clingy-ness, passion/foolishness, and bravery. Those are things many Chinese men do not posses.

He will call the girl more than a dozen times a day, “clinging to her like a fool” for years as if just one day, courageously chasing her without regard to all else. I know a laowai who pursued the daughter of a local entrepreneur. The third time they saw each other, he knelt down to propose, the girl moved beyond words...

If it’s a girl from a poor family, the laowai will say: I don’t understand why Chinese girls are in such a hurry to get married. Marriage is for life. We should spend several years dating, learning more about each other before deciding [to get married]. How can we rush into such a decision? (The unspoken words: Cohabitate with me for free. Brother [referring to self] doesn’t want to get married yet…)

However, when it comes to female stars or women of a certain wealth, laowai will suddenly become very romantic, taking you to meet his friends and family, demanding to meet your family, or kneeling down to propose after just a few dates, hoping to immediately capture you.

Because the laowai sees benefits involved in this marriage, he can’t wait to register for marriage.

But if the daughter of a poor family wants to marry one of those laowai fooling around in China, it would be very difficult. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and try. The Laowai will find all kinds of excuses and reasons to explain why after one or two years of being together is still not enough to marry you. All kinds of apprehensions and hesitations. He might promise to marry you in a few years, but after stalling a few years later, he still won’t marry you, procrastinating until you can’t take it anymore and break up with him.

I know a girl who cohabited with a laowai for over seven years, but the laowai refused to marry her, and they finally broke up…

Another female friend told me, “Laowai are so romantic, falling in love with a friend of mine at first sight, and then proposing to her with a roses in his hands the second time they met. This friend of mine is neither pretty, doesn’t dress up, doesn’t have a lot of education, but that laowai fell in love with her immediately.” I asked her, “What does your friend do?” She answered, “She opened a coffee shop all by herself…”

Regarding that set of photos often seen online, of an ugly Chinese woman showing off her laowai husband, many people sigh: Laowai men sure have strange tastes when it comes to women. Actually, it’s said that the woman’s family is extremely, extremely rich.

a wedding photo of a plain-looking Chinese woman and her Western husband

Myth #5: Laowai are very easygoing, don’t care about trivial matters, and are very easy to get along with.

Many Chinese girls think laowai are easy-going, easy to get along with, and don’t care about formalities and manners. The truth is, based on my observation of laowai friends around me, a portion of them are quite vain and materialistic.

This type of laowai usually belongs to the middle class. Their incomes are okay or pretty good, but they don’t have any property, no savings, yet they are covered in top clothing brands and visit all kinds of upscale places.

Of these laowai, some demand that their girlfriends have the same level of spending and tastes. For example, they like it when women wear famous brands, accessorized with jewelry. Of course they won’t tell you directly about their preferences, but they will observe your living standards.

When it comes to Chinese men, the poor ones don’t have any demands about what brands women wear, while the rich ones will buy you everything if they see you not dressing well enough. In China, only homosexuals pay attention to things like women’s clothing brands.

But when it comes to having a girlfriend, some laowai in China pay a lot of attention to your clothes and living standards, even what brand of perfume you use. If they think you are not stylish or classy enough, if you’re not a woman with tastes, even if you two get along well, you two will break up eventually.

There’s this laowai I know, who has never brought his girlfriend out to meet his colleagues. While other people brought their girlfriends to parties, he never did. He told me he was very dissatisfied with this girlfriend, that this girl didn’t dress classy enough, that she gave him a watch for his birthday, but it was an imitation of a famous brand… He felt this girlfriend wasn’t good enough to be shown to others. I don’t know what happened to them later, but once this laowai meets a so-called “classy” girl, this girl will definitely be dumped…

Chinese guys usually don’t pay attention to what women wear. When girls dress more childish, they think it’s cute. But some laowai pay a great deal of attention. They are especially disgusted with adult women dressing like little girls, such as wearing Hello Kitty or whatever. Those laowai will laugh at those girls behind their backs, thinking that those girls behave inappropriately.

“The vanity of some laowai in China is actually beyond your imagination. Take my friend P as an example: Every time before and after a date, he will Google the girl, for instance her name and email address, to searching for more information about her on the internet.

Of course not all laowai are like this, but some middle-class laowai are especially vain, focused on pursuing famous brands and so-called “classy” women.

Du Juan by Quentin Shih, Vogue China

Part 4 features translations of netizen reactions to the overall post.

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  • dim mak

    In conclusion, the author is a virgin

    • MonkeyMouth

      a virgin with imaginary friends

      • the ace of books

        “I know a guy who”
        “I have a friend who”
        “there was a person who”
        “my laowai friend said”

        “I heard about laowais”
        “I’m only repeating what they say, mind you, these aren’t my words at all”

        • MonkeyMouth

          oh, ya, guys… please dont shoot the messenger!! hahaha…

    • meo fio

      This guy is so correct, laowai do not have mistresses because they will divorce you if they are bored with you.

      • Probotector

        Maybe they should be more interesting.

        • El Puma R.

          I can relate to that, a few years ago long before I met my wife I dated this chinese girl, she had the most beautiful smile ever, her hair was made of silk her kisses were like chocolate and her breasts like cotton candy, the waist of a hornet and the ass shaped like an apple and she would make love with infinite passion… Chinese guys would go nuts whenever they saw me walking on the street with this girl hanging from my shoulders but I had to let her go because DAMN she was boring and childish.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            “silk
            chocolate
            cotton candy
            apple”

            Dude, you didn’t date a Chinese girl, you ejaculated in a grocery aisle. But hey, don’t let me stop you from continuing with your story..

          • El Puma R.

            lol that’s funny. Clearly your girl tastes like the duck heads they eat here… no meat, just a bony bitch you found on weixin and she plays on her phone all the time.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            Your heavy use of similes suggest your wedding vows to your current squeeze read like a grocery list. But I’ll let you tell that story.

            Dude, “waist like a hornet” isn’t that complimentary, is it? Now I’m thinking a mini-skirt with yellow and black stripes.

          • El Puma R.

            Well.. when it comes to “things that taste good” the analogies work.

            I never wrote my wedding vows here. Trolling is bad for your health, man

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            How about “waist like a Corvette’s hood”? Or “ergonomically sound”?

            And I’ve heard bragging is as bad as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.

          • El Puma R.

            ‘Cause Corvette hoods are like american women, very wide.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            Both are usually emblazoned with a tramp stamp. Yes.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            Me: A.k.a: big, wide and fat??

            *the entire court laughs*

            Civil servant: man, they are so addicted to cars that even when they are doing a compliment to a woman, they use name of car parts…

          • http://www.hammerhorror.com/ Parker Crane

            The sad but true fact is, especially for the holier than thou non smoking drinkers, that being obese and disgustingly wide in girth will kill you quicker than the fags (smokes). Plus, you never hear of Mr Smith of Stretford Road coming home in a nicotine fuelled rage and beating his wife to death, do you? No, no, cigs are quite safe my good man, and may well keep you slim. Just one of those sad ironies of life.

          • bernay

            El Puma is super boring with all these swet adjectives
            Atentamente Colombiana soy

          • Alain

            I wager your wife is from Shaanxi and you now reside in Argentina? I’ll apologize profusely if I am wrong.

          • Dr Sun

            LOL

          • http://aileilei.tumblr.com/ El Puma Reincarnated

            significant as this might be now, we all die!

      • bert

        That’s laowai (western white) women. They divorce when they get bored, but not before finding another option.

        • Kate

          Omg so true, I’m 26 and have already had 60 husbands. Men are so boring.

          • undergroundman14

            You may be joking about the 60 husbands, but i bet you’ve fucked more than 60 men in your 26 years on this planet. And if you’re a yankee, most of the men have probably been frog eyed coons.

          • Kate

            Lol wow man you are all kinds of fucked up mental issues. Actually I’ve slept with about 921 men and your mom but she sucked, she said I was too white and she liked them sexy black bitches to much, but whatyagonnado?

            Anyways maybe your lost, this isn’t Stormfront you dumbshit.

          • Blk man who dislike wyte women

            You know, he’s probably right Kate. What is a stormfront? is that the codeword for white girls getting defiled by subhumans that want to be human or? I don’t understand.

            You must have taken offense to underground’s statement because it seems to be…well…don’t hate but it seems to be true.

            Can’t pick one girl off the street anymore where it wouldn’t be unless she were locked in a cave or a convent…and even then…yeah.

            No wonder white men have abandoned white women for better Chinese women. It isn’t anything against the Asian man, it’s just that their women are superior to ours since ours screw affirmative action farm equipment with temporary rights and think it’s sexy. :(

          • PinkBarry

            Oooh – what’s Stormfront? (too lazy to open new tab and google it – I shall await your reply)

          • http://www.hammerhorror.com/ Malfeitor

            An aryan or white nationalist website and forums. Until you click open new tab and for gods sake don’t use google in the pocket of the NSA, use duckduckgo.

          • http://twitter.com/AnaPetiteV AnaVirsky

            Why are you insulting her for being western? Or are you one of those stupid people who believe bias bullshit? You think your women are better?

          • derek

            chinese women really are superior to western women. it’s true.

          • PinkBarry

            That’s indeed how many Western women I know “fix” a broken marriage: simply find a new pony and start riding in the other direction – being sure, of course, to take as much as they can with them… That said, to characterize ALL Western women in this fashion would be unfair. THAT said, 60 ex-husbands is far too many… I can’t even imagine having to cash 60 different alimony checks each month… Women have it rough!

    • meo fio

      ad hom ad hom

    • mr.wiener

      I love your new look.

      • dim mak

        -blushes-

    • meo fio

      I didn’t know foreigners in china are such male gold diggers

      • vincent

        Only one way to find out.

        • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

          Yes. Use a shovel and bury some gold.

          But I think foreigners are nonetheless still attracted to entering dark, dank hole with a lot of shrubbery at the entrance.

          • vincent

            The Brazilians have a way of getting rid of the shrubbery :)

    • The Enlightened One

      An angry virgin. Can one of you girls just take one for the team and shut this idiot up?

      He is ruining ChinaSMACK!

      • meo fio

        You sound like one of those feminist complaining about Chateau Heartiste

      • the ace of books

        But what girl would stoop so low? I know, I know, just lie back and think of China…

        • Probotector

          That would be like “China’s penetrating me!”

          Muthaland Muthafucka

        • Kate

          Send him a blow up doll that looks like a white girl, so then he can write 3 part series about screwing white women and all that he knows about them.

          • Probotector

            So that would be like:

            Part 1. “White women’s mouths are always open!”

            Part 2. “They’re very inflexible and difficult to handle.”

            Part 3. “Why don’t they talk to me?”

          • Kate

            Lmao ♥

          • mr.wiener

            Just so long as it’s not made in Japan.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            The sacred cycle of internet commenting: troll-complain-offend someone-put Japan in the totally not-related thread-troll… etc

          • mr.wiener

            I shall retire to my footbridge to mull it over.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            The author could still make some fascinating observations:

            * “She’s mad at me and won’t tell me why”
            * “Any time I’m with her all she wants to do is vent and let off some hot air. I try to tell her my suggestions but she feels as though I’m not actually paying attention to her gaping hole.”
            * “She gets jealous whenever I try to give myself a hand, a job I need to do for myself.”

          • bannman

            Ha, hilarious.

          • the ace of books

            I would read this shit out of that series.

            In small installments, because I probably couldn’t handle the sheer lol factor all at once.

          • El Puma R.

            I really hope these comments gets translated into their stupid chinese blogs ^_^

          • undergroundman14

            The only thing you need to know about white females is that they’d sleep with anything if they thought it appeared politically correct or “hip” to their friends/society, etc. Blacks are notorious for spilling the beans about how easy it is to get a white female in the sack.

          • Mitch Jackson

            underground, you have no clue about white women.

            you’re just envious and resentful that no white girl will give you even a second of her time.

        • MonkeyMouth

          maybe that woman who endured that 12 seconds of hell in that article about the chongqing govt frogfaced man getting the chop from a few weeks back,,,,,

      • rusty

        Sorry I don’t understand… I don’t think he even intended to be on chinaSMACK in the first place… And be careful when you write “chinaSMACK” please, or Brett is going to electrify you in the butt.

        • Probotector

          You don’t understand?

          Again?

          Then why bother to comment? Oh right, that incessant itch to troll.

          Although I will agree with you about Brett, that guy is the douche.

      • Macaca

        All this shit about relationship between chinese and foreigner is TOTALLY ruining this website, 90% bullshit

        • Austin Smith

          Completely agree. This is frivolous stuff, pure bile.

    • Chang Liu

      That, and his social circle are full of losers.

      • meo fio

        virgin, loser, no penis, masturbate, robot, small dick…
        Sooo much butthurt, rage and mad in this thread

        • Amelia

          Hahahahaha sooo true

    • dave

      Yeah, we already got that.

    • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

      That or he had a girlfriend that was ‘stolen’ by a laowai.

      • Nick in Beijing

        I had the exact same thought.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kevin.yu.54943 Kevin Yu

      I really guess thats the point. I imagine him to be one of those guys, who just sit in an Internet-Café all day, playing DOTA or Crossfire and then wondering why he does not have a gf…

    • Amelia

      Hhaah you are very right, this author is an idiot he clearly has no “Laowai” friends, or any friends as a matter of fact. He has no experience outside his own imagination, and write lies out of jealousy because he gets no woman and I’m sure probably has a one inch penis covered up by his pubes, he is jealous of Laowai, I feel embarrassed for him. I am a Chinese woman born and raised in Canada, and 100% what he is talking about is bullshit, I didn’t even finish reading it, waste of my time.

  • hess

    “Third, if Chinese men have extramarital affairs for sexual pleasure, they won’t divorce you, but many laowai will want a divorce after having an extramarital affair, because they only care about their own happiness.” So…. A chinese guy with a xiaosan cares about his wifes happiness?

    • starsky

      this issue would make or break china far more than north korea ever would

    • slob

      I know right, it’s like the guy considers that a good trait.

      • rusty

        Be careful with that kind of talk, you might pass for a jealous virgin…

    • The Enlightened One

      Logic has no bearing in ChinaLAND!

      You think too much, don’t ask questions! Mei you! Bu zhi dao! Mei you wei shen meeeeee…..

      • Probotector

        Don’t forget bu weishenme

        • rusty

          Good for you.

      • Chinkicide

        Wo ye buzhidao. Bu shi nide shier. Buliao. Ni bu mingbai zhongguo.

    • Chang Liu

      Good point! Divorce is much more preferable.

      • rusty

        Then why would you get married and promise to love and be faithful in sickness and in health til death? You ignorant moron.

        • Probotector

          Why do most Chinese men do that then; get married then cheat or get a ‘xiao san’? His point was that divorce is preferable to cheating, or ‘pi tui’, because it’s the more honorable thing to do.

          • rusty

            Did you really say that? If so, you must be a jealous virgin loser…

          • Probotector

            I suppose honor doesn’t mean a thing to a Chinese does it?

          • rusty

            I have to simultaneous answers to that and can’t pick one:

            1. Ask Fauna, she is the one trying to sink her own country.

            2. … … … … … … what?

          • Probotector

            What do you mean ‘what?’ you retard! Let me spell it out for you then.

            You just implied that it’s better for a man to cheat on his wife than to do the honest thing and divorce her, and then sleep with other women. You also implied that only ‘jealous virgins’ would do that. So you mean it’s better to cheat and keep the wife; twice the pussy, right? You must be such a stud. Tell me then, how many KTV girls sucked you off today? Or have you ever gotten laid? For someone talking about sex and virginity, you don’t know much about relationships, do you?

            Also,”Ask Fauna, she is the one trying to sink her own country.”

            So what Fauna does makes her a ‘pantu’? Okay then.

            Just fuck off back to playing world of warcraft and jerking off to japanese porn. You really need to stop trolling everyone; you never have anything useful to say.

          • Chang Liu

            You are one angry butthole, go get plugged.

          • Probotector

            I’m not the one trollin’

          • rusty

            Do you mean that… I have been disturbing your useful comments…
            I am so sorry… And just when you were saving the day too… How am I going to ever live with the shame…

          • SuperHappyCow

            Probotector: Chinese people have no sense of honor. Also, racism is a myth.

          • Probotector

            How’s that “war on your emotions” going? Also is trolling the best input you can make?

          • Chang Liu

            We need to ignore his posts. By typing here I few my IQ slipping.

          • Probotector

            You “few your IQ slipping”? Clearly

          • SuperHappyCow

            Timeline of current events:

            White guy stereotypes all Chinese.
            Black guy points it out.
            White guy makes asinine comment.
            Asian woman agrees with white guy.
            White guy insults Asian woman.
            Black guy LOLs.

            LOL.

          • Chang Liu

            Nobody can follow this thread LOL.
            White guy stereotypes all Chinese. (Agree)
            Black guy points it out. (Assuming you are talking about me and MonkeyMouth? He might be, I am not black.)
            White guy makes asinine comment. (Yup)
            Asian woman agrees with white guy. (who? what? Kate? She not Aisan???)
            White guy insults Asian woman. (again who?)
            Black guy LOLs. (Yup)

          • SuperHappyCow

            The best input I can make is into your mother’s vertical bacon sandwich.

          • Chang Liu

            Riiiight so other countries don’t cheaaaaaaat. Yeah keep telling your self that you deluded fool.

          • Probotector

            did your dad cheat on your mom with some KTV skank, and that’s how you were born? Go fuck yourself chinkie

          • Chang Liu

            I knew you are some redneck low life and I was right. Got it out of ya.

          • Probotector

            And I knew you were some bigoted dickless Chinese fag. Deal with it

          • Chang Liu

            I feel bad for you, maybe if only your mum kept the fags and alcoholism in check you might get other people’s point of view.

          • Probotector

            Look who’s talking. Ah! I don’t agree with you, so you’re interfering in our motherland! Death to all foreigners, ah butthurt!

          • Chang Liu

            Nah just pity for those who can’t better themselves through education because genetic defects. (Hint looking at you.)

          • Probotector

            so that’s everyone except you?

          • Chang Liu

            riiiight because looking at you means not you riiiight.

          • SuperHappyCow

            Probotector: “My name is ‘Poopoodoctor’, I pretend that racism doesn’t exist, and that I’m liberal in regards to women’s rights, so that I can easily sleep with Chinese women. Also, I hate Chinese men, homosexual fags, and mentally disabled people because I cannot stop using the word ‘retard.’”

          • Probotector

            Saying KTV doesn’t necessarily refer to karaoke, but more the concept of it increasingly being a front for prostitution. Therefore, I was implying your dad bought a hoe and banged her and you were the result. If you can’t understand nuance then you shouldn’t retort.

          • Chang Liu

            And I quote your former reply
            “Probotector Chang Liu • 41 minutes ago
            whatever man, you lost face.”
            Very mature.

          • Probotector

            How is that immature? Is it because you just didn’t like it?

          • Chang Liu

            Whatever man you lost face.
            see what i did there.

          • rusty

            Hey Fauna, you got your CS’s spokesperson! “Go fuck yourself chinkie” should be CS’s motto, I mean it just… fits ^o^

          • SuperHappyCow

            Probotector: “Asians are chinks and gooks. Did I mention that racism is a myth?”

            Probopoopter why are you such a terrible person?

          • Probotector

            That’s not even what I said dumbass

          • Chang Liu

            Dumbass when why do you think Chinese men cheat for different reasons then any other country? Otherwise why ask the question? FYI Chinese divorce rate have been steadily climbing, we will soon reach the lofty heights of other industrialised nations soon and then some.

          • Probotector

            I never said other countries’ men don’t cheat, I just said to rusty that divorce is better than cheating. Actually, I was agreeing with you. But as it turned out you were just being sarcastic, meaning you don’t respect women or relationships or people’s feelings any more than he does, so you’re both dumb idiots.

          • Chang Liu

            Read my replies….
            “Chang Liu rusty • an hour ago −
            I’ll barely dignity you with an answer. Marriage isn’t a sacre institution like your mummy would have you believe, it is a social construct that is evolving according to new circumstance like any number of social institutions. Believe what fairytale you want about marriage the overwhelming trend in any industrialised country is towards more divorce. What kind of moron sees evidence of something and go well what about that fairy tale version, I liked that better….
            If you can’t separate the facts from fiction then.. well I got nothing to say to you dumb-ass.”

          • Kate

            Thats a good question, same with korean men. I think part because asian societies are really, really discriminatory against single mothers and its very hard for them to support themselves and children and I think what this creates is women who know their husband is cheating but won’t divorce for fear of losing face with family and being a discriminated minority in their society. Men know they have this power and so exploit it. If chinese men were actually held accountable for affairs legally, like in the USA, where a man can lose custody and pay heavily out of his bank account if he is caught. And also if society offered services to single moms. Same with Korea too. Western women don’t tolerate cheating and most (not all) will leave a man the first time they find out. But society is set up to help them. Anyway my husband and I actually had this conversation and I already told him what I expect and if he destroys the trust pillar then me and his baby are gone the first time and he can come to the US to visit. And vice verse for me too. There’s no point in being married if you’re going to spend your time, resources and self on other people. Not to mention the health risks of it.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            Let’s sum it up by saying: in Asian societies, the family unit is the most important. Chinese couples won’t divorce for the sake of their child – especially if they are of an age that hasn’t passed the gaokao.

            So we can sum that up by saying: if you’re a Chinese husband and are unfaithful to your wife, please be discreet – for the sake of your family.

          • Kate

            No, there are few excuses to extra marital affairs. Men who cheat on their wives simply humiliate their wives and themselves and the children end up resentful/angry towards them. Also a man who is willing to do that to his own family is simply incredibly selfish and is only considering himself and the women, who knowingly are with married men have no respect or integrity for themselves nor empathy for others. So the types who cheat frankly deserve each other but to drag an woman whom you have essentially lied to the entire marriage about loving and respecting and have burden with child, she really is the victim. And so are the kids. Now you can substitute that with man as the victim and its just as true. Plus human bodies are really germy and diseased and sleeping with other people always puts you at risk of STIs and to put your spouses own health at risk for some cooch on the side is a huge betrayle in trust and love. People should have integrity.

          • http://sinopathic.com/ terroir

            No. I’m not excusing it. I’m just saying that a Chinese wife who has been cheated on will in no ways leave her husband.

            You’re cutting off your cash flow, man. You’re letting some other tramp walk all over the territory that you’ve marked out.

            Divorces will happen once the kid grows up and gets into college. Until then it’s awkwardness and silent dinners.

          • Kate

            Well thank goodness western women can have careers and jobs and whatever to allow themselves dignity and to be able to walk away from abusive, skeezy men like that. A lot of asian men who marry western women aren’t like the typical men from their country because mistresses are something western women have zero tolerance for and will result in the termination of marriage with half their assets quickly. I would rather be poor then to tolerate repeated humiliation from a man that is suppose to care about me but doesn’t nor his child. Only men who don’t care or love their wives cheat.

        • Chang Liu

          I’ll barely dignity you with an answer. Marriage isn’t a sacre institution like your mummy would have you believe, it is a social construct that is evolving according to new circumstance like any number of social institutions. Believe what fairytale you want about marriage the overwhelming trend in any industrialised country is towards more divorce. What kind of moron sees evidence of something and go well what about that fairy tale version, I liked that better….
          If you can’t separate the facts from fiction then.. well I got nothing to say to you dumb-ass.

          • Probotector

            I love it when Chinese fight each other

          • Chang Liu

            Riiiight because what I said about rational evidence implied Chinese fighting each other. Well done… read much?

          • Probotector

            Um yes I read your and his trolling. Rusty is Chinese; you are Chinese. You are hating on each other. Got that?

          • Chang Liu

            Moron flaming is part of our internet decorum like I am giving it to you right now. It is not a fight. Just differences of opinion expressed the only way it can on forum such as this.

          • Probotector

            “The only way it can” Yeah you don’t know how to be civilized do you?

            Also, that was a pretty lame cover up. You obviously didn’t know he was Chinese, and you just lost face by dissin’ one of your own countrymen. Well done.

          • Chang Liu

            Riiiiight because all Chinese people agree with each other…. Riiight.

          • Probotector

            whatever man, you lost face.

          • Chang Liu

            As a matter of fact I really don’t agree with him. Oh no it is disagreeing with your shallow, racist world-view of Chinese people. I will begrudgingly acknowledge you agreed with me. Fact of the matter is you make crass generalisations about face, it is as old and insulting as a minstrel show.

          • Probotector

            If calling it that that makes you feel more comfortable

          • Chang Liu

            Fact is if you talk about a nation with 1.3billion people as characterised by obsessed with saving face then you are being racist. It is an inherently irrational and childish thing to do.

          • Probotector

            “you talk about a nation with 1.3billion people as characterised by obsessed with saving face”

            Well, yeah, that’s the truth, it’s an integral part of your culture, and demonstrated by your trolling, his trolling, and the screed of the author of the above article, not to mention countless others.

            And a Chinese lecturing about racism and immaturity? Give me a break!

          • Chang Liu

            “And a Chinese lecturing about racism and immaturity? Give me a break!” because Chinese are all racist and immature is that really what you think? I won’t disagree there are racist people in China does that make MY indignity at your racist views moot. By your logic because of Slavery, you’d have no moral authority on anything. Give me a break.

          • Probotector

            Do you really have to ask? No it’s not everyone, but it is the vast majority, and it’s a cultural thing, not a racial one. Nationalist superiority and therefore racism are part of China’s culture. I certainly believe most Chinese see racism as a virtue.

          • Chang Liu

            In what way do most Chinese people see racism as a virtue? CASUAL racism exist in China sure, like everywhere else. It is based on irrational fear of the unknown, we are not the ones who made institutions and pseudo scientific theories of it though. That accolade goes to the 19th Century Europeans.

            Americans are even worse, racism is so entrenched that black people enjoyed the least amount of social mobility since the 70s despite having a black president. So don’t get on your high horses and lecture us about racism while being racist towards us at one stroke.

            FYI I dated two black girls in my college days one was from Ghana the other an amazing mix of Portuguese and Angolan, sure when we went out we got same stairs but never heard anything but positivity from my Chinese friends. So yeah I resent your racist generalisation very much.

          • Probotector

            Then go on tianya and tell this racist asshole to stop generalizing ‘laowai’. Only then can you be self righteous about racism.

          • Chang Liu

            Dude I am Chinese but my written Mandarin is shit. Why do you think I am reading about it here. I will tell him if see him in person that he is a SB as my spoken mandarin good enough for that. Doesn’t make your racist assumption any less SB though.

          • Probotector

            Have you ever been to China for an extended period of time? Ever lived there? If you have you’ll know about the generalizations then make and take as virtuous. If not, you have no right to comment on what Chinese society is like.

          • Chang Liu

            Dude my family is in Beijing. I go back every year since 2001 and worked there in 2005 on a book on Chinese Urbanisation for a year. Went back to work there in Beijing and Shanghai in Architecture from 2010-2012 now I am back in London.
            Just to clarify I will be going back again when I finish tying up the loose ends here in London.

          • Probotector

            Still you haven’t seen it from the perspective or experience of a foreigner, so you can’t just get pissed because foreigners consider China to be a largely racist country. If you don’t like us labeling them as racist, maybe they shouldn’t act racist.

            Also in your previous comment referring to girls you’ve dated in your college days, I assume you meant your college days in the UK or wherever, wherein your Chinese friends accepted you. Well, Chinese who come abroad, like your friends, are likely to be more open minded than the average chinaman in the back of beyod of who’s never seen a laowai before, so that argument doesn’t matter

          • Chang Liu

            So Chinese who are not in China are not Chinese? There is a photoexhibition about Chinese farmers who went to african and had African brides. Tell me if Chinese people are intrinsically racist then how within a space of few years of leaving China the Chinese farmers who lets not kid ourselves are not well educated decides to marry in Africa? Did that happen to white expats to Africa much? Your double standard and blinkered world view is astounding. One person said to me the worst kind of racist is one who doesn’t realise he is one.
            Truth is racism is much more deeply rooted in the West and people are becoming more adept at hiding it because it had become publicly unacceptable. But all social indicators show many diasporas experience less social mobility then they did a decade ago same for black people in USA now are you going to dispute this fact?

          • Probotector

            Uh right. I never said Chinese who aren’t in China aren’t Chinese. Good job twisting my words to suit your own insecurities.

            I also never said Chinese are intrinsically racist, I said they are generally racist, meaning most of them are but not all, at least in my experience. The reason for this is that they are educated to believe they are culturally and racially superior to all others. You wouldn’t know anything abut that because you’ve never known what it;’s like to be an outsider, constantly victimized and singled out in a xenophobic country have you?

            Like I said before, you can’t say it’s racist for me to call most Chinese racist when they obviously are, simply because you disagree. Demonstrate to me how China is genuinely welcoming to foreigners?

            Staring at them and referring to them always as ‘laowai’ or ‘waiguoren’ perhaps?

            How about charging them higher prices because they stereotype us as being wealthy and easy to rip off because they assume none of us could ever master your language?

            What about constantly criticizing and generalizing all foreigners as one people, just like the guy that wrote this article?

            Racism and xenophobia is rampant in China and is not considered to be wrong by most people. Otherwise it would stop or at least be challenged. You can’t call me a racist for that; I am merely stating a fact.

            btw, do you hate Japan?

          • Chang Liu

            “And a Chinese lecturing about racism and immaturity? Give me a break!” thats what you said. That statement imply all Chinese are racist and immature. Otherwise how can A Chinese lecture you about racism be ridiculous?

            My point was CASUAL racism exists in China. Who the fuck denies that? But so does everywhere else. You think it doesn’t exist in India? Japan or Korea? You think it doesn’t exists in Africa? What is different and all together more serious about the brand of Racism in the West is that it has a long tradition of Pseudo-Scientific theory of White supremacy. In fact it WAS the commonly held belief in the 19th Century. Racism in China however unpleasant doesn’t come anywhere near the sheer mind boggling entrenchedness and certainty of the West. Near where I live in London a young promising black teenager was stabbed to death without apparent provocation (Stephen Lawrence btw). It took 15 years to bring the perpetrators to justice. As a result the government procured an enquiry which found the Met Police to be “Institutionally Racist”. I am not going to insult even your meagre intelligence about the hair raising racially motivated police brutality in the USA everyday. From personal experience a Bengali friend of mine claimed to have been abducted off the streets by a police van and beaten up after the 7/7 bombings in London. I didn’t believe him until I read excerpts from the Steven Lawrence Report. THIS my friend is what true racism is like. Your experience of so called racism is pathetic.

            Tell me something, where is the evidence if Chinese people are so racist? When was the last time a foreigner was lynched for being foreign? When was the last time police gave you a random beating in the street? Does this kind racism compare to the kind where you just get called a laowai? This just proves my point about racism in China is Casual I.e. based on lack of information and fear.

            You are a serious hypocrite and an idiot to boot, all the foreign friends I have including black people are having a blast in China. What kind of losers you hangout with is your business but don’t think to insult the intelligence of others based on your meagre experience in China.

          • Probotector

            Whatever, you’re butt hurt because I dissed your motherland. I don’t give a shit anymore go fuck yourself.

          • Chang Liu

            Aww I love it went a redneck can’t take facts rammed down their throat and give up out of frustration.

          • Probotector

            Yeah, ’cause all people who disagree with you about China must be rednecks. Isn’t that racist generalization too?

            Your arguments are cherry picked and your knowledge of racism in China one-sided. Yes I have seen foreigners beaten up and murdered in China for being foreign, so again shut the fuck up. 2 students from Kazakhstan in the university I worked at in Henan were stabbed in a nightclub in China for for dancing with Chinese girls. See, I can use anecdotes too.

            Omnipresent racism out of ignorance and fear, leading to snide comments, rude gestures and exclusion is not simply casual racism. Racism is not all about lynchings and mob beatings, it’s still REAL RACISM, grow up. The nature of it is irrelevant. Most of the examples you gave were isolated incidents, not representative of the attitude of all or even most British people. The ones I gave do represent the majority of Chinese people’s thinking.

            Meager experience in China? Is seven years (for a foreigner) meager?

            Pseudo scientific theory? Don’t give me a sins of the father argument; that wasn’t me, that doesn’t matter anymore, Chinese also believe in that too. Chinese have told me that whites and blacks are less evolved and more like apes because we have more body hair than you. Evoking evolution to try to justify racial superiority not ‘pseudo-scientific’ racism, no?

            Don’t label Britain as racist, for God’s sake. The law there is heavily weighted in favor of foreigners and you know it. Though I’ll grant you shit happens like as was detailed in the McPherson Report, but this is not omnipresent racism, like it is in China. Btw the Steven Lawrence case was in 1993, the McPherson Report, 1999/2000. The law has markedly changed since then.

            My point is that racism is largely debunked as a credible rhetoric in the West; in China it is not, so which society is the more racist?

            And don’t cop out and say “well Chinese are still developing” yeah for 5 000 years it seems.

            What I get from your description of your meagre experience of life in the UK is that it has taught you that all white people are evil, and all you minorities must stick together to fight us.

            Now, you may certainly disagree with me, but don’t label me as racist and ignorant because I don’t agree with you.

            Btw, you ever been beaten up or even called a name (besides by me) for being Chinese?

          • rusty

            Don’t you even stop to eat?

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            LMAO!!! Best comeback ever, congrats.

          • Chang Liu

            What are you, 12 year old fanboy waiting for your balls to drop?

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            What? Your comment doesn’t even make any sense. I just thought his response was hilarious. What’s your problem?

          • Chang Liu

            The guy is a clearly a hypocrite. I fucking hate hypocrites especially racist hypocrites.

          • Rusty

            And yet you spent all night chatting with him.

          • Chang Liu

            Nah I got a sports injury. I got time.

          • MonkeyMouth

            i am thankful he did…..i love internet spats. racism is a fact, and we are all racist. blah blah blah…. those who engage in the racism back-and-forth are bound to contradict themselves

          • Chang Liu

            Yes I agree :) It is frustrating but entertaining. I bet you had a few good chuckle at our expense.

          • MonkeyMouth

            you guys owe me a new laptop cuz is spit out my coffee laughing at the trolling you guys were up to.

          • Chang Liu

            LOL dude sry to hear that. Hope it can be fixed.

          • Probotector

            You’re talking about hypocrisy now?

            “There is a reason for Chinese people to be ignorant about foreigners because the bloody country was closed like North Korea style until 1979.”

            So racism in China is okay because it’s too soon for you guys to do anything about it? Also, 34 years? Yeah, that’s just too short a time span to make any realistic changes.

          • Chang Liu

            There is a difference between rude behaviour out ignorance and out right racism, in China people behave the same way to people of Chinese origin from other parts of China (I know I’ve experienced it myself). How is that racism then? I don’t see racist Westerners behaving the same towards their own fellow brethren u moron.

          • Chang Liu

            “Whatever, you’re butt hurt because I dissed your motherland. I don’t give a shit anymore go fuck yourself.” If you don’t want to be labeled a redneck don’t say stuff like that.

            Ask the people who are the recipients of institutional racist VIOLENCE and see if they prefer just “snide comments, rude gestures and exclusion”. GROW UP. There is a reason violent crimes are treated differently from petty crimes. The law may have changed it doesn’t make the institution change over night. as recently as 2012 you have reports like this about institutional racism in the NHS out of all places:
            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20210842

            Tell me there are organisations like EDL NF BNP in China who go out their way in roving gangs to make migrant communities and asylum seekers a misery every day? Tabloid media that blanket with stories of scare mongering (read the Daily Mail recently?) You clearly haven’t been in the UK for some time.

            Seven years in China and you still hang around people who reads hack evolutionary theories about race… All I can say is to quote a more famous mind that the measure of man is his social circle.

            Now I actually had my primary school education in Beijing and aside from the same old stories of National humiliation at the hands of foreign power there was NO texts that I can recall, that insinuated or ‘proved’ that the Chinese people are superior in any way shape or form. If anything there is a sense of need to ‘catch up’. Prove me wrong, give me one example of School material sanctioned by the state that supports your claims? I bet you can’t.

            There is a reason for Chinese people to be ignorant about foreigners because the bloody country was closed like North Korea style until 1979. What is America or UK’s excuse to still be institutionally racist? The No.1 Slave trading nation and the No.1 Colonial nation. The sheer gall and po-faced spin you dish up is disgusting.

          • Probotector

            Why do you stay in the UK if you have such a low opinion of it then?

          • Chang Liu

            Fact is you can’t answer any of my accusation only nitpick at the fact I made generalisation about you as a REACTION to your ignoramist rant.

            What do you think I am doing? I AM leaving the UK moron. If you don’t like China so much no one is asking you to stay.

          • http://twitter.com/AnaPetiteV AnaVirsky

            Let’s all agree that racism exists on both sides and there is violence based on racism on both sides as well. You can’t really argue who is right and who is wrong here because both of you are right and both of you are wrong. It’s like slicing a pie in two pieces and then having you both fighting over which one is better and more tasty. So, proving one is right and the other is wrong is going to be impossible. This whole debate here is futile. You both come from the same perspective, trying to prove the same point, but for two different cultures that have THE SAME problem. It’s pointless all this chatter and insults.

          • Chang Liu

            I guess my point that I am trying to make is whilst racism exist everywhere there are degrees of severity and consequences. On the one hand casual racism can easily be dealt with just by giving the correct scientific information. Entrenched views go beyond reason and often ends in violence or preparation of violent showdown (see US Militia movement). To lump the two together is deeply dishonest.

          • meo fio

            Racism such as islamophobia is so all-encompassing in the west, that most westerners no longer realize it exists, like living inside a bubble.

          • Probotector

            Please don’t spew anti- Western propaganda, it’s unbecoming

          • Chang Liu

            Call it propaganda when it is a fact. Talked to a muslim living in the West have ya? No i don’t think so. Do you even have black or Muslim friends? I doubt it. so STFU moron.

          • moody

            Being of north African decent i can tell you that Islamophobia is the simple consequence of the blatant intolerance of Extremist Muslims wether they are in their home country or abroad.
            The moderates pay the price it is true.

            But how would you feel if white guys in mainland China started to threaten the local women of physical violence coz they wear -what those guys consider as- revealing clothing ?
            (Not that this would happen of course :-p)

            Shouldn’t the moderates clean their own doorsteps ?

          • Chang Liu

            Not sure the comparison is fair but I hear ya.

          • Chang Liu

            Huh? what is your point?

          • Chang Liu

            Truer words have never been uttered.

          • The Dragons Balls

            Islamophobia isn’t ‘racism’. It’s “IDEALISM”. Think about it.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            This is what they do best.

          • Probotector

            In any case, you and I are just splitting hairs over the definition of racism in China. Does it really matter? You want to believe that everyone who dares have a negative opinion of your country is racist and ignorant? Fine if that makes you feel better if that helps you to sleep at night. I on the other hand don’t really give a shit. Sleep soundly!

          • Chang Liu

            Hey I never said China isn’t ignorant for which it stands accused correctly, hey it arrived late one world stage and has a few ropes to learn. It is the characterisation of all Chinese as racist I have a problem with. Ignorance can be overcome, racism is much more protracted and difficult to remove. I personally have gotten into a few conversations with my Chinese friends and most have mis-informed ideas and funny anecdotes rather than a deeply held belief which once clarified are blown away. My mostly factual driven conversations with some British woman in a pub about immigration which she approached me on the subject as soon as I sat down was bit of a fiasco however. Needless to say that is a pub I don’t frequent anymore. Take what you will out of this little experience of mine.

          • Chang Liu

            For those who down voted the above post, please do share your experience of racism towards you as a laowai in China. I am open minded enough to base my opinion on evidence.

          • Dr Sun

            Try as I may, I just don’t seem able to get one of those “Golden rice bowl” jobs.
            Although doing the same work, for the same pay, I don’t get the same benefits of a state pension,a subsidised housing price, subsidised healthcare. Just an administrative oversight I guess.

          • Asdfg

            If u r non-citizen of one’s country, pls dont compare the benefits with a citizen person. For example: the US government do not give pension & SS benefits to non US citizens either. The foreign students who attend @ US colleges & universities have to pay higher tuitions than the local US citizens also. In S. Korea, Singapore, and Japan, the citizens of each countries have far more legal benefits, health care insurance, financial aides, lower interest rates, better job positions & etc…than foreigners. And all these countries also tax foreigners who invest or work in their land certain amount. This is not racism, these r common laws that most countries on this planet have to save jobs for their own citizens and to use the tax $$ from foreigners in other needed areas of the nations. So what makes u think YOU as a foreigner can qualify for those state pension and subsidized housing price in china, even when more democratic nations like USA & UK only allow these kinds of benefits to citizens and their own government officials?

          • Hongwu emperor

            When a conversation appears, usually of political/economical/ethnic matters, the same discussion will always be deviated to include Japan. <

          • Chang Liu

            LOL I didn’t take the bait.

          • Hongwu emperor

            You surely is a wise one, my friend!!
            We need to aovid those trollls who only try to deviate stuff mentioning japan when it has nothing to do with the conversation!

            That matter was ALMOST brought up in that other thread [the gay leehom joke]

          • The Dragons Balls

            Or black people….hahahahahahaa.

          • MonkeyMouth

            an earlier article states that the little chinese boy couldnt accept the little japanese boy because his teacher showed him anti-japanese cartoons. just throwing that out there….. sounds like the entire country is being socially engineered to be racist? yes or no?

          • Probotector

            yes, but they’ll always vehemently deny it, and shift the blame on us

          • Chang Liu

            Dude I seriously doubt the truthfulness of the article, you know why? When I was growing up, it was a favorite tactic of teachers and parents to make up stories about how well behaved other kids and kids from other parts/countries behaved in order to shame us into getting in line. This story and the tone is brim full of it. I bet any money even if it is true, most of the details are exaggerated and embellished to make a point. Chinese people love showing up other Chinese people especially when they have been to the West. That is why I made no ‘contribution’ to that comment section. It belittles my intelligence.

          • MonkeyMouth

            england and france? racist, by definition, no. but discrimination, yes. same with irish/english, serbian/croatian, african tribe vs african tribe, etc etc. not racist by definition, but discrimination nontheless. lise i said… racism and the ‘we are better than the ___” is always going to be around. but, how many of these examples are egged on in kindergarten? i dont know

          • Chang Liu

            Exactly similarly I do not characterise prejudice between Chinese and Japanese as racism.

          • Chinkicide

            Let me help you pack.

          • Rusty

            Why don’t you go yourself? Instead of bashing on his back at every turn? You wouldn’t be scared, wouldn’t you?

          • SuperHappyCow

            The worst thing privaliged white twats like you have to worry about are shitheads on A FUCKING TROLL WEBSITE complaining about white losers fucking their women because their own culture values stupid things, and they are unsure of how to fix it.

            Their culture never pretended to be egalitarian or sensitive. Yours does, but you’re the one that says blatantly racist shit in every other conversation you have with someone.

            Why are you the petulant asshole of this website? And seriously, who calls someone chinkie? Kill yourself?

          • MonkeyMouth

            you went black…(cheers!)… did you come back?

          • Chang Liu

            LOL whilst I was dating my second black GF (She’s mixed heritage but identified with being black) her black male friends where really really complimentary about us being together. Maybe you can explain to be why that is?

            Anyway I was pathologically avoiding Asian girls at the time because my first Asian GF who was from Shanghai btw was clingy to an extreme despite being outwardly independent, selfish, immature, and sexually inexperienced despite being very pretty. All hell broke lose when I broke up with her 3month in, she was making a HUGE scene, threatening to kill herself and ended moving to my Student hall on the same floor no less and showed up everywhere I went for HALF a YEAR, I didn’t have the heart to get a restraining order so she came in to my student residenc and took out all our pictures while we where together behind my back! I was forced to move back home, I think I still bare the scares of that relationship.

            After that I dated a crossed the rainbow spectrum bro. Sadly my first black girlfriend was very academically ambitious and went to do her anthropology PHD field work in Sierra Leone so we parted on amicable terms. The second black gf I met had gotten me the reputation of having a ‘black fetish’ amongst her friends which was really annoying because I happened to like her and she happen to be mixed. That was an emotionally intense relationship that burned out quickly. I had a great time with them, and found that, although this is a cliche they where very easy going, and that is sexy (Chinese girls listen up).

            Since then I went out with British Albanian, Walsh, Croatian, Norwegian, English lady, ended with an amazing Jewish woman for 4 years (Sadly she wanted kids and I didn’t). Now I am going back to China for the love of my life. She’s an Chinese artist from Yangzhou I met in Shanghai. I got over my pathological fear and avoidance of Chinese girls by then thank god. We met and got married within half an year :).

          • Hongwu emperor

            Lets avoid generalizations and stereotypes please.

            It would be the same thing as saying ‘all americans are fat, do not exercise and only plays videogames, drink coke etc etc’ or ‘every russian is communist and those who arent are spies’ etc etc

            stereotypes are bad for both, the stereotyped and the one who spreads it.

          • Chang Liu

            Thank you that is the point I am trying to make.

          • MonkeyMouth

            actually going to agree with this. marriage is a sort of cultural relic. no evidence shows humans being naturally monogamous. having a cerebral cortex only enables us the choice to be monogamous or not. religion has shaped cultures, and marriage, of course, is a religious phenomenon.

          • Chang Liu

            Yes I agree and also an institution that in the past ensured owner-ship of women and reinforced allegiances between interest groups. Civil partnership is much more preferable in this day and age.

        • hess

          Cheating = being unfaithful

    • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

      Right! Chinese guys just cheat for sex to make their wives happy. Evil laowai scum cheat for sex to make themselves happy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/warren.lauzon Warren Lauzon

      Yeah, what I got from that statement was that Chinese guys are better because when they cheat on you, they will still keep you around to cook and raise the kids for them while they are out poking their “real” true love.

    • lazyfred

      And I dont get why laowai ask for divorce, not Chinese wife?

  • linette lee

    Not again.

    I can sum it up once again the stereotype.

    1)all white dudes in china = losers
    2)all chinese girls = cheap and whores
    3)all chinese men = ugly and small penis.

    That’s it folks.

    • KAMIKAZIPILOT

      I agree with what you wrote. And I have to admit most stereotypes have at least a bit of truth to them. Also sometimes perception becomes reality. IN other words if a lie (or half-truth) is repeated often enough it becomes accepted as true. It does seem like the author is obsessed with only white foreigners, as if no other people in the world existed besides Chinese and laowais. Articles like this make him seem like a total loser in the game of life.

    • Anon992

      What is a stereotype Linette.. in your opinion?

    • SonofSpermcube

      Sounds about right. There are no heroes here, no winners, only victims.

  • Nerd

    pretty broad coverage. not really balanced at all. his findings are based on the laowai around him. therefore this article is about the laowai around him, not every laowai in china.

  • Austin

    Thanks for perpetuating the growing tension between foreigners and Chinese with this crap. It’s a shame Chinasmack has to use this material to gain hits on their website. Humanity at its lowest.

    • Brett

      Where do you think more Chinese people read this article: chinaSMACK or the original Chinese article on Tianya?

      If A, you seriously overestimate this website.

      • Austin

        So you are saying that all this growing tension is only from the Chinese side? I believe it’s a two-way street. Side A reacts to Side B and vice versa. My point is regardless of the source, this article abuses this never-ending cycle to generate a bunch of hits. Look at the # of comments from the previous parts of this article compared to “Boy Sleeps with Snake” or whatever.

        • Brett

          So you are calling out a website for trying to get more hits to pay the bills… Because they posted an entertaining piece of fiction that was popular on the Chinese interwebs (which is exactly what their mission has been since ’08).

          You are confusing “hits” (which probably stays steady regardless of content) , with “comment count” (which varies from story to story for different reasons). I doubt chinaSMACK posts these articles for hits alone, but probably because they are interesting and they do, in some ways, apply to the vast majority of it’s audience.

          • Austin

            To answer your first part, if I failed to make it clear before…Yes. As for the “hits,” I put two and two together, 1,346 comments must equal at least 1,346 hits. If “8-yr-old Boy Smokes a Pack a Day” has 78 comments, it must equal at least 78 hits. But If I had to bet on which articles generate the most hits, my money’s on pieces like this future Pulitzer Prize winning here. BTW, Do you work for ChinaSMACK or something? Or are you just ChinaSMACK’d up? You need to balance it out with some ChinaSPEED!….come on, that’s funny…you gotta admit :)

          • Brett

            I admit it. I chuckled.

          • Kai

            You’d be surprised. There’s actually not that much correlation between comments and actual traffic (hits, pageviews, etc.). Don’t get me wrong, there is some correlation but it isn’t a certain thing. All it takes for the comment count to explode on a post is for a few people to get into an argument with each other. For example, rusty, Probotector, and Chang Liu make up a disproportionate percentage of the comments on this post.

            cS does vaguely expect certain topics to get attention and comments. We’re not stupid. We’re also not stupid enough to think these articles bring only benefits. In fact, publishing these translations runs a real risk for us in terms of audience attraction vs. alienation. You aren’t the only person who is put off by Rensi having the temerity to translate what some Chinese people think about foreigners and Chinese girls. There are many others just like you who react badly to reading this, feeling perhaps personally offended, and thus blaming cS for making them feel uncomfortable, vowing and often successfully never revisiting the site again. Publishing this thus may result in more traffic and conversation, but it also may result in losing readers and thus a net loss in traffic.

            You think the decision boils down to believing more short-term traffic is worth it to lose some possible long-term readers. No, the decision boils down to whether or not what’s being translated is legitimately popular and an interesting aspect of modern Chinese society,

            Fauna has always explained that “SMACK” is about being confronted, being “smacked” by what simply IS on the Chinese internet, even if it is ugly or embarrassing or shocking, or as simple as being written in coarse language. Some people can only interpret cS as whether or not it makes China look good or bad. She, nor any of us who contribute to it, see things that way. It’s not so simple.

            Some people see this as an embarrassment of “their” people. Some see it as an indictment of “Chinese” people. For Fauna, for me, for us, we see it as nothing more than a reflection of the same shit that happens and gets discussed, even popularly so, by non-Chinese people. Is this Chinese netizen’s pseudo-intellectual anecdotal rant about foreign guys and Chinese girls all that different from the pseudo-intellectual anecdotal rants about Chinese people by expats and foreigners on the internet, often in the heavily upvoted comments on cS?

            Not really. That’s what makes this interesting. The predictability of it is interesting, but also how people approach it and react to it. It shows what kind of people we are.

          • Rusty

            Using the right words you can make sense of every crap you want. It doesn’t make you a journalist. Why would Fauna need to hide her identity otherwise. She has made a career out of picking up a nation’s dirty laundry and expose it for everyone to laugh at. And of course you will not say you are mocking. Bullies are always “just kidding”.

          • Kai

            We don’t fashion ourselves journalists. That’s a straw man.

            She hides her identity like you do. To minimize and hopefully avoid harassment from people like you who can only see things their way and are willing to make threats over it with whatever power they have.

            Her career actually isn’t this website. Her career actually allows her to keep this website going, a website that if you were to review objectively is far from merely “dirty laundry”. You’re seeing and remembering only what you want to see and remember, only the things that fit your preconceived notion of what you want to believe this site is about. It’s confirmation bias. It’s a Texas sharp-shooter fallacy.

            A lot of people share your sentiments. You have your reasons and they’re understandable but trolling the comments section repeatedly calling Fauna, a person you don’t know, a “whore” and a Chinese traitor is not something I find particularly sympathetic.

          • Rusty

            Traitor I did say. Whore I didn’t. What I said is that she would have better face engaging in porn rather than continuing this crappy website. This is not the same. And I am reviewing this website very objectively, I am not even Chinese. You will have to think of something else. Again, with the right choice of words you can make sense out of everything. This is the way sects get thousands of people to commit collective suicide. And again, as I put you and your little friends under a bad light, you will of course claim that I just misunderstood, or maybe I am just to stupid to? This is the easy answer little Kai, take it, I am giving it to you.

          • Kai

            You’re right, you didn’t say “whore” but instead accused her of selling herself, her people, and her country out. I probably thought of it as whoring oneself, one’s people, and one’s country out. I’m pretty sure I haven’t mischaracterized your attack on her person.

            I don’t recall accusing you of being Chinese so that’s irrelevant. I did accuse you of seeing what you want to see. Your response so far is to accuse me of being eloquent, and likening this site to a cult of personality.

            I don’t think you simply misunderstand, I think you’re just set on your interpretation, set on seeing only what you want to see, seeing only what reinforces your chosen understanding, and the crusade you’ve committed yourself to.

            You’ve previously characterized cS as an “eavesdropping” website, allowing people to understand Chinese online conversations through translation. We don’t see what we do as much different from what Chinese netizens do themselves whenever they translate foreign language material so other Chinese people can consume it more easily in their own language. One analogue of cS is ltaaa.com. Check it out some time. cS does it the other way, because at the time, most English media and blogs about China didn’t. They overemphasized politics and other Western pet topics, while cS went for what was popular online, with social topics, with Chinese internet culture. And yeah, cS is gossipy and tabloidy at times. I’ve always been one of the first people to say so, but for better or worse, that’s what you get when the general criteria is “popularity”. Popularity is a double-edged sword. It increases the chances that it will resonate and engage audiences, but it risks being too “low-brow”. Oh well, that’s “SMACK” for you.

          • Rusty

            First paragraph is right. Second paragraph is ridiculous. Third paragraph, I am going to give it to you. Fourth paragraph, again, with the right set of words, you can make sense out of every lie. Just don’t pretend the concept is “what is popular”. CS is about digging out garbage and you know it. The proof lies in your proud audience of absolute losers: they reject the (pretend) cultural part of the website (songs and jokes), asking openly for more blood. This is the part of the population you feed your culture to. And by feed, I mean feed in the literal sense. Any respectable enterprise should know when it’s time to shut down. Until then, I’ll be looking for the way to expose CS and have it taken down.

          • Kai

            So you base your interpretation of what cS is about based on the behavior of a small subset of its commenters?

            And you’re threatening to get us shut down because you don’t like the opinions and behavior of that small subset of commenters?

          • Rusty

            I am judging CS by criticizing the gap between what it intended to be yesterday and what it pretends to be today, and proving this gap by trying to make you realize the crowd of vultures you attracted. It’s not how they behave, it’s what they are. It’s a theme much valued by Spielberg: even the best intentions can have dramatic outcomes when exposed to human nature. For instance, that’s why we can’t afford to believe in death penalty, however bad we would need it at times. If you can’t see how bad the impact of CS is on Chinese culture and how it alienates its relations with the outside world, yes I do wish to see CS die, with all my heart. And I am not threatening to get CS shut down, I am saying I will do whatever I can think of for this to happen. But maybe there is nothing to worry about, Kai, maybe I will fail, after all cockroaches are harder to kill than most insects.

          • mr.wiener

            You’re kinda the Spinal Tap of vainglorious threats aren’t ya?
            Could you please dial it down from “11″.

          • Kai

            Saying you will do whatever you can think of to get cS shut down or for cS to die is by definition “threatening”. Look it up.

            You don’t need to make us realize the “crowd of vultures” cS has attracted. cS always had a crowd of vultures and has always been aware of them. We just disagree on how important they are in the grand scheme of things. You obsess about them, we don’t. That’s it.

            Your “gap” is a subjective interpretation. For example, I happen to
            think cS was more salacious in its early days than it is now, with more posts about violence, nudity, sex, and gore. But hey, that’s just my impression, one I know to be shared by others but not all. Either way, apparently you know what cS “intended to be yesterday and what it pretends to be today” better than we do, the people who actually run the site. We can’t really do anything about that, can we? But we do want to remind you that judging is one thing but threatening is another.

            I don’t know if cS is the only target in your holy crusade to defend Chinese culture and its relations with the outside world but we’ll admit to being at least a little flattered. Maybe Aaron Sorkin and David Fincher will make a movie about us one day (no, I’m just kidding).

          • Rusty

            The grand scheme of things? What role do you believe you are playing? The fucked-up impact I am talking about is purely accidental! And the only reason CS is still on despite the idealistic criticism you are trying to block out of your brain is opportunism: CS makes money. And (I am being 200% hypothetical here) even if there were a bigger agenda behind CS, I highly doubt you and your little “team” would actually understand what good could come out of injecting a virus into the organism, and further doubt that even one of you would be in control of its outcome or even slightly able to predict it. If people were scared of globalization slowly alienating cultures, CS seem determined to put Chinese culture flat on the ground to make sure it will be the first to go. But I don’t attribute you enough intelligence to understand or even admit that this is what you are actually doing.

          • Chang Liu

            Say what? I see CS as the tabloids of China news. You come here to get the sensational rather than the informed or rational (although as Kai correctly points out that is changing). For most part the readership and certainly the comment sections is full of ex-pats who wants to let off some steam about China. And you know what? After living in China for the last year and bit I can tell you as a Chinese person that letting off steam is an essential part of survival in China. The lack of traffic etiquette (I am a cyclist, I got major beef), the disregard for cleanliness the rudeness is all part of the package and so is venting about it on the internet. Although I do agree that some people take it to racist and abusive territory which the moderators need to take a stand.
            Remember, this is the internet, not need to strain your backside over.

          • Rusty

            1. the Chinese can let off steam because nowhere else to go…
            If the foreigners are unhappy, they should get the hell out.
            2. let off steam is talking with each other, not eavesdrop on Chinese comments, point, laugh, jerk off and ask for more blood.
            Try again.

          • Chang Liu

            Why don’t you translate the comments on this site to a Chinese site like Sina. That would be interesting.

          • Rusty

            This is the idea. Not forgetting the Chinese FAQ telling unhappy Chinese to fuck off, the several Facebook links and all the VPN advertising. The smallest victory I can get is for parasites to be forced into spending 20 dollars a month to get CS in China.

          • Chang Liu

            I think it will be hilarious to see the reaction to the reactions here :). Shame my written Mandarin is too shit. Assuming you are born in China you’d be the perfect person to take up the mantle.

          • Kai

            I mentioned ltaaa.com above. It’s just one Chinese site that has done so, multiple times. They also feature translations of content and discussions from other major English news and media sites.

            The truth of the matter is that cS is only slightly special because it somewhat popularized the reverse of what Chinese people have been doing with English language internet content ever since internet adoption took off in China. More Chinese people consume English internet content, discussion, and culture than vice versa. cS’s growth is in part due to the general growth of interest in China amongst foreigners as China becomes more influential economically and politically in the world. Foreigners interest in Chinese pop culture is no different (though still on a much smaller scale) from foreigners being interested in American pop culture. I’m sure somewhere, at some time, someone has accused those American outlets of such information of being traitors to their country, making the US and Americans look bad in the eyes of outsiders.

          • Chang Liu

            Which makes the reactions the readers of these type of sites even more interesting.

          • Chang Liu

            Just read a bit of Itaaa.com and your assertion cS is similar is troubling. The site appears a translation of news around the world which for most part concerns China. The tagline of the site is ‘the globe watching China’ or something like that. It is focused mainly on news that have an direct or indirect impact on China or how China is perceived. If CS is the mirror of Itaaa.com then it would be focused on China news which concerns how the West is perceived. That is NOT the case of majority of articles on CS. Instead we have a site which dedicated to sensational news and arguably worthless internet commentaries on such news, for which I am ashamed to admit I do enjoy. The equivalent would be trawling the commentary section of the Daily Mail looking for the Zeitgeist of British public opinion. The problem of CS for most Chinese people I guess is the relentless editorial focus on the negative and sensational which even the tabloids in the West occasionally relent from. If you think articles on crappy Chinese pop music makes up for it then you are sadly mistaken.

          • Kai

            I’m referring to the concept of translating internet content in one language into another language so readers of that other language can more easily read, understand, and consume it. This is true and shouldn’t be troubling at all. cS is not a mirror of ltaaa.com nor did I ever say that. I said it is analogous and clearly in the context of language translation for consumption.

            The internet commentaries translated on cS are indeed arguably worthless to some, yes, but arguably worth something to others, including you, if you derive enjoyment from it. I’ve said before, part of cS’s charm is that it is different things to different people.

            If you’re familiar with ltaaa.com, they do have translations of comments on such Western media sites, and as much as many of us hate the Daily Mail, we have to acknowledge that its actually a really popular and successful media site and organization. That says something.

            I don’t know if I’m ready to make any representation of what “problem” “most Chinese people” have with cS. In our monitoring of reactions to cS from the Chinese internet, a lot of it has been reassuringly positive. We’re not stupid though. We know that a there are certainly plenty of Chinese people who might or do object to cS, but from my experience and from what Fauna has told me, most of the hate mail we get comes from overseas/Westernized ethnic Chinese who, like Rusty, can only see the site is a clearinghouse for making China look bad.

            I also don’t know if I’d say “relentless editorial focus”. Would you acknowledge that the negative and sensational tend to command a disproportionate amount of society’s attention and are thus more likely to become popular and trending topics that get on people’s radars? More so, consistently and historically, than the positive and mundane?

            This is why I say our primary editorial mission predisposes our content towards the sensational. It’s the nature of the beast.

            As for the Chinese pop music, no, I don’t think it “makes up for it” nor do I think Fauna brought Rensi on to do them to “make up” for anything. Whatever opinions many of you have about how interesting those posts are to you guys subjectively, I know Fauna wants them because she thinks they complement cS’s editorial mission. Plus, we publish tons of stuff that many of you don’t find interesting and thus become less memorable to you guys when you try to characterize what kind of site cS is.

          • Kai

            I don’t know if it is “changing”. I think the editorial mission of cS predisposes it to having sensational content but I don’t think it necessarily excludes informed or rational content. Frankly, I see a lot of informed and rational content on cS, whether it is the original posts being translated, the netizen comments in response, or the discussions by cS commenters here.

            Of course I’m not saying everything you see is informed and rational, but I see plenty of it. Maybe the ratio of informed and rational to uninformed and irrational isn’t to our preferences but that whole signal to noise ratio problem is something inherent to the never-ending battle between “free speech” and “intelligent discourse” within online communities. Most long-term readers of cS are likely already familiar with how big of a struggle that is, how it is ultimately being caught between two legitimate but mutually exclusive ideals.

          • Chang Liu

            I don’t know Kai, I for one mostly come here for cheap thrills as I am sure of a lot of CS readership. itaaa is different in that it covers mainstream news which CS doesn’t. For example news equivalent of IMF accusing Argentina of fiddling figures is not exactly CS territory.

            Your attempt at justifying CS on nobler grounds is frankly laughable. It clearly frames China in a particularly unflattering light which invites ridicule and prejudice. Like the guy who drop his hard earned cash and got mobbed, there was no follow up when the migrant worker receive donation more than he had lost and decided not to keep the extra. I see CS as like the Daily Mail of China news, it is a breeding ground of misunderstanding and prejudice to the uninformed readers. To the more nuanced and informed reader it is bit of sensationalist distraction.

          • Kai

            Sure, cheap thrills. A friend of mine characterized cS as a guilty pleasure. That’s fine.

            ltaaa.com is more of a crowd-sourcing translation forum with a much broader purpose and far more people involved than cS’s editorial mission and handful of contributors. Again, I said ltaaa.com and cS are analogous in the context of translation of foreign internet content and discussions. I never said they are identical.

            I disagree with your characterization of my responses here made in good faith. I’m not “justifying cS on nobler grounds. I have my subjective interpretation of cS just as you have yours. I wouldn’t support and contribute to cS if I didn’t believe in it. We’re not going to get very far if I say I believe this and that and you reply saying “no, you don’t.”

            You see cS as “framing” China in some sort of light. We don’t see us as intentionally framing China in any light. We have a publicly stated criteria we generally follow and we openly acknowledge the limitations and pitfalls of it. We also openly acknowledge that the final result gives different people different impressions about China. I think we are being very honest and realistic here. We won’t however say we’re intentionally trying to frame China in an unflattering light when that is not in fact our motivation. Of course, you can accuse that, and people will choose who to agree with based on their own assessments and biases.

            On the guy who dropped his money and had it stolen by people passing by, it seems you didn’t follow-up to read Fauna’s comment about that. Fact is, new information comes out all the time and we simply cannot provide you updates on every story we happen to have covered at one point in time. It isn’t feasible or realistic, and part of the reason for having comments is so people can contribute such updates if they want. Furthermore, I think Peter did include an update that the guy had received donations because that was something that was out and something he noticed when he translated it. It is pretty clear that the guy getting more than he lost was something that happened AFTER Peter did his translation and BEFORE his translation was published. You can’t blame us for the lag time involved with someone translating and editors preparing a post for publication. It’s unavoidable and unreasonable.

            Yeah, you can see cS as the Daily Mail. Yeah, it can be a breeding group of misunderstanding and prejudice for the uninformed. Yes, it can be a sensationalist distraction to nuanced and informed readers. In fact, it can be any number of things to any number of people. Don’t make the mistake of false dichotomies. It isn’t either this or that. It can be many things. You, Rusty, and I already have three different interpretations of what cS is.

          • Chang Liu

            I am not sure what we are discussing here. I agree with most of what you say but also understand Rusty’s POV. I think the point of multiple interpretations and guilty pleasure doesn’t need to be raised, it is self-evident.
            Don’t kid yourself, sensationalism itself IS a ‘framing’ device, when you focus on a country or a group of people aren’t they justifiably annoyed by being viewed in such a way? By making the editorial decision to focus on such stories (which btw I don’t have a problem with) you are already ‘framing’ China as it automatically precludes certain readers and interpretations. What you believe you are doing has nothing to do with it. It is structural. I don’t see how you can dispute that.
            I, unlike Rusty do not wish this site to be shut down. In fact it think it is a cool site and you guys are doing a good job. However I do understand where he is coming from, and I am sure it can be frustrating, accusing people of false dichotomies is cheap btw.

          • Kai

            What aren’t you sure of? I’m not sure if a lead off like this is to be read literally or figuratively. Earlier you said something like “I don’t know Kai” but I couldn’t figure out what it was I said that you didn’t know. I THINK it’s just an expression employed to indicate a hesitation to express agreement or a hesitation to conclude a discussion. Am I right? If not, it’d really help me if you could explain what you aren’t sure of and I’ll do my best to clarify or elaborate.

            Look, I also understand Rusty’s point of view but I don’t accept his refusal to allow others their point of view. It should be but it isn’t self-evident within our discussion WHEN Rusty suggests there is only one interpretation, his, or when you say suggest that there are two, either or.

            Next, I think we understand the word “framing” differently. I’m responding to it insofar as it is a suggestion of active intent, of action backed with motive, not as a mere consequence. A body of sensational news will certainly result in certain people seeing something in a certain way, but it doesn’t mean the people who put together that body of sensational news actively intended for any specific resulting perception. This is particularly true when that perception, like Rusty’s, conveniently disregards any evidence or data that isn’t convenient. Do you follow what I’m saying here?

            I’m not convinced that having a stated editorial criteria as general as “popularity” rises to any negative-value laden connotation of “framing”. I’m not sure to what extent you are arguing that it “automatically precludes certain readers and interpretations”. In fact, let me try to understand what you’re trying to say by way of comparison. Reddit, it’s a site that by design attempts to surface and thus provide greater exposure the most popular content based on votes. Similarly, but obviously not exactly, cS surfaces what its editors and contributors argue is popular content on the Chinese internet, ideally through various metrics like views and comments or proliferation on the Chinese internet, through translation from Chinese to English. There are many differences here, but are you following the specific comparison I’m making? To what extent can we suggest this process “automatically precludes certain readers and interpretations”?

            If we take a really broad understanding of “readers and interpretations”, I’m not sure how that can be avoided with ANYTHING. If we translate in English, are we “guilty” of precluding certain readers who can’t read English and the interpretations they are predisposed to based on their linguistic backgrounds? If we design in black instead of white, are we “guilty” of precluding certain readers with an aesthetic preference for white and the interpretations they are predisposed to based on their aesthetic preferences? I’m using hyperbole here to emphasize my point: this sort of assertion is so broad that it isn’t helpful.

            I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you’re saying something like “the choice of reporting what is popular results in reporting what is often sensational which tends to attract certain types of people who tend to have certain types of interpretations and repulse others who tend to have other types of interpretations, based upon my subjective understanding of the world”.

            I’d say that’s completely plausible, likely, and in line with my own understanding of the world as well. But it’s still a huge bundle of assumptions, and it is a bundle that, no, does not negate what other people believe the site is about, including what the people behind the site believe they are doing. How you interpret what someone else has produced is separate from how that someone else interprets what they have produced.

            If the producer cannot accept how their work is received, that is unrealistic of the producer. It is likewise unreasonable for one beholder to disregard what the producer believes or what other beholders believe. Nowhere do I see any of us behind the site being incredulous about how some people choose to see the site. Instead, we’re fairly clear on what feeds their chosen perception. We don’t try to deny them that interpretation, but we will come out and say, “well, that’s not necessarily how everyone sees it”. I’m not sure how that can be faulted. Can it?

            I really hope there is a misunderstanding somewhere about what I am “disputing” because I have repeatedly indicated an understanding of how certain things are “structural”, such as how a popularity criteria or filter “structurally” biases towards what is often considered sensational. Or that what is sensational “structurally” (I use “inherently”) attracts certain types of people. As I said, it’s the nature of the beast. No one involved in cS or its sister sites is deluded on this point. What we may differ with certain people like Rusty or perhaps you is that we believe there is still an abundance of value in such an editorial criteria or filter. For example, since we cannot translate all Chinese internet content for the consumption of non-Chinese readers, we believe the emphases on what we identify as popular or trending with mainstream audiences is a useful and reasonable criteria. You can dispute this, but it’ll be a tough argument.

            Please review everything I’ve said to Rusty. I think I’ve gone out of my way to show that I do understand his basic gripe while disagreeing with his conclusions and behavior. If you don’t think so, please be specific but don’t just suggest I don’t understand him when I’ve been specific on where I disagree with him.

            Finally, I’m going to ask you if you think my response to:

            I see CS as like the Daily Mail of China news, it is a breeding ground of misunderstanding and prejudice to the uninformed readers. To the more nuanced and informed reader it is bit of sensationalist distraction.

            …as you presenting a false dichotomy is really that unreasonable and unexpected. When I’ve made pains to explicitly acknowledge those two interpretations while pointing out that there are countless other valid interpretations, don’t you think it is likewise “cheap” to present two options that are both inherently tinted with negativity and dismissal? That readers of cS are either uninformed or just looking for distraction? Does that reconcile neatly with the full catalog of content? With the readers who use us to practice their Chinese or English? With the journalists and academics who cite (or often not) us in their work?

            Likewise, can you in all honesty not think your accusation of:

            Your attempt at justifying CS on nobler grounds is frankly laughable.

            …is not also “cheap”?

            Look, I’m almost afraid you’re arguing with a straw man. I’m not remotely trying to argue or defend with any notion that cS readers are uniformly an enlightened noble lot. I don’t think any reading of my comments here in response to Rusty or you should yield such a conclusion on my position. I am, however, saying you guys have your own subjective interpretations of cS and they are just that, subjective interpretations. I cannot in good conscience disregard all the facts and evidence before us and say your subjective interpretations are all that is out there with regards to cS.

            I think my position is fairly unassailable and also intelligible to you. I do get the sense that you are trying to converse with me in good faith and I hope you get the sense that I am too. I do worry that we fray around the edges and will progress to making “cheap” accusations. Can we both try to avoid that?

          • Chang Liu

            Point1: I have noticed that amongst my friends a fair portion consider sensationalism in bad taste, call it snobbery if you will such opinions are popular. Hence CS precludes certain readership by default. NOT hard to understand. Example, just today I told my friend I read something from CS he turn up his nose and went, oh you read that trash, which suggest he has a disinclination to read CS. (disclaimer: I understand that such opinions are solely his own and that he understands the possibility of other positions, please don’t slap him with that red herring called false dichotomy)

            Point2: At NO point did MY presentation of MY interpretations of the site PRECLUDE others or make claim that it is objective, in-fact I stressed again and again POV of others like Rusty AND that I agree with yours (I even used the words “I SEE, blah blah is such” which means in my view), so the accusation of false dichotomy IS cheap.

            Point3: “It is likewise unreasonable for one beholder to disregard what the producer believes or what other beholders believe” Sorry the “‘death’ of the author” was already proclaimed by the middle of last Century by Roland Barthes so NO such position is certainly defensible.

            Point4: “With the readers who use us to practice their Chinese or English? With the journalists and academics who cite (or often not) us in their work?” I’d love to know if that is the case. Assuming people read this, a show of hands please.

          • Kai

            1. I wouldn’t say he’s making a false dichotomy because he isn’t employing one based on your testimony. You said he simply looks down on reading cS. I accused you of employing a false dichotomy on a different basis.

            2. I quoted what my accusation of false dichotomy was based on. I believe my use was warranted based upon my understanding of the fallacy. In the context when I first said “false dichotomies”, I also simply cautioned you against making such a mistake WHILE prefacing it with an acknowledgment and limited agreement of what you had said. You said this and that about cS and all I said was, “yes, those things, but it can be and is more”. Why would I say that? Because the bulk of our conversation, the one between you and I, is predicated on you trying to get me to understand Rusty’s POV and me saying I do, but I just don’t accept him insisting his is the only one and calling me an eloquent liar whenever I present another, namely my own. I’m pretty certain I’m following this conversation in good faith here.

            3. Sure, but that’s your ideology. In the real world, intent and identity of creator still regularly influences discussion about a work, and people regularly care what a creator intended. I also said it is unreasonable for one beholder to disregard what OTHER BEHOLDERS believe” in any objective discussion about what something IS. I’m not denying that beholder their subjective interpretation so long as that beholder doesn’t deny others theirs. I feel like you’re trying to make this argument black and white when I’m trying to say its just shades of grey. You say you get it yet you keep launching arguments about it at me.

            4. I don’t see how I am forgetting or ignoring this nor have you brought such a thematic argument up before. I think my previous and maintained position addresses this just fine. What part of our behavior suggests we aren’t aware that people can be sensitive to how a nation or people is perceived? That we’re willing to make them uncomfortable? Perhaps there are reasons for that, and the point with Rusty is that those reasons aren’t necessarily the reasons he chooses. You bring up false dichotomy here again and I suspect now you’ve misunderstood what I was referring to with it from before because I don’t know how I can make it clearer.

            To say we don’t do what we do to frame China in an unflattering light DOES NOT EQUAL claiming neutrality in a politically laden space. The question is what SIDES we are taking in WHAT value arguments. For example, we believe there is value in seeing what gets popular online in China and what Chinese netizens say. That’s not being neutral, that’s clearly being biased towards exposure and engagement. The media is indeed the message, but what message is it? If you think the message is necessarily “these people want to frame China in an unflattering light”, then that’s again just your subjective interpretation based on your own values and biases. Why do you think we don’t understand that this site gives people different impressions and they can be sensitive ones? Why are you trying to impress this upon me when it should be clear I and we understand that fully?

            5. Search about cS on Weibo, or read the post involving Dashan, then search cS on Google or look at our About page for a brief list of our mentions in major mainstream media. Asking for a show of hands when you already know not everyone who reads cS is an active commenter, especially in a post where your comment is already buried under hundreds of other comments, is disingenuous, don’t you think?

          • Chang Liu

            1. False Dichotomy means “A situation in which two alternative points of views are presented as the only options, whereas others are available.” I can’t have presented them as the ONLY options when my statements are prefaced with words that mean to suggest it is my subjective opinions. Yet you insinuate that I suffer from it.

            2. I can’t be responsible for what Rusty said only my interpretation of it.

            3. It isn’t MY ideology. His insight provided a paradigm shift in modern literature theory. To ignore him would be to engage in conversation about Physic on Newtonian grounds after Relativity. Would you call theory of Relativity my Ideology to discredit it??

            4. “The question is what SIDES we are taking in WHAT value arguments” Do tell. By trying to make me do the dirty work is a bit disingenuous don’t you think.

            5. Disingenuous? give me a break, clearly people who use CS for such purposes that you claim are not your average user. The burden of proof is on those who make the claim. By goading me into doing your dirty work is being disingenuous don’t you think?

          • Kai

            1. We’re going in circles here. Let’s reboot and make this simple. We both acknowledge that different people can interpret cS differently and there’s not much assailable with the statement of such. Agreed?

            2. Again, let’s reboot and make this simple. What is your interpretation of what Rusty said that you think I’m not understanding as evidenced by remarks I’ve made in response to him?

            3. I’m not ignoring Barthes whatsoever but I feel you’re trying to get me to adopt his framework when I don’t think it adequately represents reality much less this situation. Your analogy to physics is likewise faulty. Barthes was challenging and presenting an alternative academic approach to traditional literary criticism. It’s an academic approach, a school of thought, NOT a SCIENTIFIC theory that overrides a previous scientific theory. Barthes death of the author is more akin to Marxism challenging capitalism than Einstein challenging Newton. However much you may personally subscribe to Barthes and denigrate anyone else as 19th century, websites still have About pages and people (and I’d argue “most people”) still consider identity and intent of authors and creators. Am I wrong? If not, what are you trying to argue by dismissing me as 19th century? Barthes argued something but what have I said that doesn’t account for it?

            4. What are you talking about? Rusty calls Fauna and the rest of us who contribute to cS traitors to China (note how he clearly doesn’t subscribe to the death of the author concept). I’ve clearly and repeatedly said he may think that way, that being his subjective interpretation of cS, but we don’t see ourselves that way. What “dirty work” do you think I’m trying to make you do? What are you going on about?

            5. I never said they were the average user, did I? You’re arguing against a straw man, exactly as I was worried about and had previously cautioned against.

            Again, let’s reboot and make this simple. Rusty sees us as Chinese traitors out to smear China and has made it his crusade to bring us down by whatever means necessary, threatening to get us censored in China so at least internet users behind the GFW cannot see our website. I say we don’t see ourselves as Chinese traitors, do not intend to smear China, and do not find his comments and crusade sympathetic. He’s entitled to his chosen view but his threats are objectionable. What part of my position here are you taking issue with?

          • dim mak

            only you would do this Kai ;_;

            conversations between ethnic chinese on this site differ greatly from those between expats o___o

            dim mak shall join u

            H-hi

            The lady is kinda right

            But yall dont seem to be talking about the same things

            Her (and Rusty’s) underlying concerns are about the overall impact of this site, not the intent behind its editors or how it may or may not be interpreted by individuals

            All the possible motives/interpretations of this site aren’t mutually exclusive anyway

            it’s popular, sensational, and negative at the same time

            of course you can say it’s all subjective, but the point is that a lot/too many find it negative

            meaning that Rusty wants you to convince him either

            1. it’s doesn’t make China look as bad to EVERYONE (not just himself) or
            2. there’s some justifiable value relative to the negativity

            Besides, unless you guys are oblivious as to how these tabloid-ish articles could create a negative view of China, it’s hard to believe you can disconnect that entirely from your intentions

            see i woulda just ended the whole convo with:

            “ya well of course this shit’ll bring out lotsa haters don’t like it tough tortellini”

          • Kai

            -_-

            of course you can say it’s all subjective, but the point is that a lot/too many find it negative

            And that’s (“a lot”) a point I’ve repeatedly acknowledged. So what gives?

            I know the conversation with Chang Liu (how do you know its a she?) developed into some deeper discussions about subjectivity but did I not from the beginning and multiple times explicitly say I totally get and KNOW that many people find the site negative?

            As for whether it is “too many”, it’s clear that we currently don’t feel that way. Frankly, we don’t actually worry ourselves over whether or not whatever is being published today adds or detracts from any popular perception of negativity. cS’s editorial mission is not to publish in a fashion that manages its audience’s perception of how negative cS is.

            All the discussion about the intent of the editors stemmed from Rusty’s accusations about the intent of the editors, so its not like we’re talking about that for no reason.

            meaning that Rusty wants you to convince him either [...]

            Are you sure he wants me to convince him?

            Besides, unless you guys are oblivious as to how these tabloid-ish articles could create a negative view of China, it’s hard to believe you can disconnect that entirely from your intentions

            Review the conversation. You may have to load all the comments before all of the comments in the discussion thread appear (blame Disqus). I’ve said the same thing in multiple ways already. See my very first comment in this thread, in response to Austin – “we’re not stupid…”, or my first response to Rusty – “A lot of people share your sentiments…”. There should be no doubt as to whether or not we are oblivious. We’re not. My contention is that being aware of possible effects does not equate to malicious desire for such effects, which is what Rusty is accusing. There’s a difference from “wanting to cause negativity” and “willing to accept possible negativity because you believe there is a worthwhile benefit or value”.

            “ya well of course this shit’ll bring out lotsa haters don’t like it tough tortellini”

            True, but I’ve been trying to be diplomatic about it. cS is not going to change its editorial policy, and instead of flippantly telling those who question it to simply piss off, and as long as there is a chance that they might be reasonable, I’ll try to treat them like adults and explain our position (Fauna less so, as evidenced by her FAQ answer, though I know she’ll patiently explain to anyone who doesn’t use loaded questions like the one in the FAQ). Even if they remain unconvinced, I will have done my part.

          • dim mak

            no but the point was : even if wasn’t your intention, even if the purpose of cs can be interpreted differently, why do you keep doin it if you know it has a negative effect on china’s image

            we’re not questioning whether or not you’re aware of the fact
            rusty is mad because he’s assuming you ARE aware of it, but keep putting up negative stories about china anyway

            your answer seems to be “well we don’t care what people think of china as a result of this site”

            which is fine, actually
            nothin wrong with flippantly telling ppl to piss off

            shoulda just said that right away

            and i’m assuming chang liu is a she because she sounds like a woman

            sorry if im mistaken

          • Kai

            Are you sure that’s Chang Liu’s point or question? Because if so, I’d have to say Chang Liu did not communicate it very well.

            I did not think you guys were questioning whether or not I was aware of Rusty being mad. I DID think YOU were questioning if I knew many people find cS negative. Otherwise, why would you say “the point is…” in your previous comment? I assume you point something out to me because you assume I don’t know it, right?

            Assuming Chang Liu’s basic argument is indeed “why does cS continue to post content knowing that many people think such content will have a negative effect on China’s image”, then I still have to say: “Haven’t I already answered this multiple times in multiple ways already?”

            The answer is also in the About page. I know Rusty has read it and I assume Chang Liu has.

            So are you sure that’s Chang Liu’s point or question?

            Next, I wouldn’t say we don’t care what people think of China as a result of the site, it’s more like we don’t think fear of one group’s sensibilities should influence an editorial mission and format we believe has value. One post today offends the sensibilities of nationalistic Chinese. Another post tomorrow offends the sensibilities of expats in China. Yet another post the day after offends every decent human being on Earth. We see diversity and depth in our content. Others, even many others, may not, but our editorial mission isn’t to cater to their whims and biases. It’s a perpetually losing proposition.

            I’ve said this before: I think many of the typical accusations levied against us are a product of selective memory and confirmation bias. See my first reply to Rusty. It’d be pretty spineless of us to fold to other people’s fallacies. Where does it stop?

            About flippantly telling people to piss off, well, I guess I’m not comfortable with it when I’m ostensibly speaking on behalf of cS. On behalf of myself, I’ve just recently told you to get off my nuts because I know you’ll understand I’m joking and the context was not about anything serious.

          • dim mak

            i said UNLESS you’re oblivious
            i was assuming you’re not
            it was rhetoric

            she might not’ve said it explicitly, but i think that’s whats driving the entire argument

            this is like seeing a guy in the street, knowingly run him over, then saying it wasnt your intention because you were just trying to get to krispy kreme or something

            if you’re aware of the consequences how can you separate it from your intentions

            >we don’t think fear of one group’s sensibilities should influence an editorial mission
            >our editorial mission isn’t to cater to their whims and biases

            isn’t that pretty much the same as not caring what people think

            sensibilities, biases and selective memory doesnt preclude the possibility that cs really is too negative

            from your faq

            Q. 你为什么丢中国人的脸,把一些见不得人的事登给外国人看?你不觉得很没有面子吗?
            A. 说实话,我懒得跟你解释。你不明白就算了。

            i dunno man, that answer sounds pretty flippant to me

            about your nuts
            i love those things

            are you sure you’re not anon from before? you sound like him :3

          • Kai

            No, I’m not anon, but we know each other and he told me about your suspicion before. We can’t possibly be the only people you know willing to articulate themselves, even on cS. Have you seen Hidden Harmonies or the debates on any of the other more serious blogs? Time to expand your social circle, or email me and maybe I’ll introduce you two. You might be surprised.

            If that’s what’s driving Chang Liu’s entire argument, then I’m at a loss because it was already addressed time and time again, in the About page, in the FAQ, and again multiple times in this discussion. If Chang Liu’s arguments here actually boil down to something that simple, wouldn’t that mean Chang Liu is essentially refusing to believe our explanation and trying to torture us into giving him the answer he wants? Didn’t I already suggest this might be a possibility in a previous comment, where I said I’m telling him what I think and he’s essentially replying “no, you don’t”?

            I don’t think your analogy is reasonable. Anyone with hurt feelings could use that. Being offended by a translation of something you prefer others not to see, even when it is next to translations of things that you support or are neutral to, is not quite on the level of being physically injured by someone on their way to Krispy Kreme. I hope you’re just using hyperbole to make a point but surely you recognize and concede to mine, right?

            Awareness of possible consequences can certainly be separated from intentions. Everything we do has a spectrum of consequences. We make decisions on what we do based on our calculation of net benefit. Come on, you know this. I know you know this.

            No, I don’t think letting other people’s sensibilities dictate our actions is the same thing as not caring, not even “pretty much”. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they don’t care what you think. You can’t hold people ransom, forcing them to agree with you, by accusing them of “not caring”. That’s what children do to parents when they don’t get their way.

            I DON’T preclude the possibility that cS is too negative. Most trending topics each day arguably involve “negative” stuff. Do we reject the “trending” criteria simply because it can be seen as being too negative by any number of people? Furthermore, negativity is a value judgement, a subjective interpretation. I can agree with Rusty and Chang Liu and you that this topic that was translated is too negative but ALSO feel that something else justifies its translation and dissemination. The world over reports on things that make people uncomfortable and the value of that reporting is judged all the time subjectively.

            You don’t have to tell me something is flippant when I’m the one who pointed it out to you and also pre-emptively remarked about it in context of Fauna. I told you she was less patient than I am, and I can see her perspective. Look at the language of that question. It’s an loaded accusation that has prejudged her. It isn’t even an honest question. As someone who suggests “tough tortellini”, you surely have no qualms with her response there, do you? I also said that she has very patiently answered those who do ask her in good faith. That’s not good faith though. Rusty wasn’t asking in good faith here either, but I’m a sucker for abuse.

          • dim mak

            okay, okay

            your spokesmanship is unquestionable

            stop lashing dim mak with your long, period-tipped sentences ;o;

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            so tell me ^^
            who is anon
            and why doesnt he post here anymore :<

            i-is it because i came on too hard?

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            how can you stand going to hidden harmonies

            that place is a shithole

            aren't you tired of being bludgeoned by all the idiots
            they may write long ass posts, but every regular there is a stubborn narcissist out to defend their egos, not to engage in constructive discussion

            and this is coming from someone who considers himself MORE nationalistic than dewang, melektaus, or any of the fruitcakes there

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            also
            I like talking you kai <3

          • Chang Liu

            1. Sure, agree. What I don’t understand is at what point does stating your opinion preclude opinions of others? Unless stated explicitly that is the only version possible.

            2. Again obviously.

            3. Making the communism comparison is wrong and cheap. 1. Communism is a 19th century ideology influenced by a Victorian clockwork like certainty in the sciences. The Death of the author concept is like many philosophers and thinkers such as Derrida influenced by a 20th Century Scientific world view which is getting to grips with Complexity and Spontaneous Order.

            4. That was a mistake intended for point 5. Sry for the confusion.

            5. You attempted to portray the use of CS as something other than my own experience of it and when ask make you prove it you tried to wriggle out of it. Slimey. If CS is used in such a way it would be easy to link to a proof.

            I made no claim to be sympathetic to his cause, merely that I understand where he is coming from. Why are you on my case for what he believes? Did I say I supported his views? Did you read my posts in response to him?

          • Kai

            1. Great. The argument that Rusty was precluding other people’s opinions is based on him dismissing my opinions as me lying.

            2. I don’t understand your reply here.

            3. I’m not going to go down this tangent anymore. I think I’ve made my point clear, which is that your application of the “death of the author” concept is unrealistic here. You brought it up to defend and prioritize Rusty’s subjective interpretation of cS by dismissing my subjective interpretation of cS as part of the “creator/author” behind cS. The point remains that different people can interpret cS differently. Which you agree, so Barthes is still irrelevant here.

            4. I’m still confused.

            5. No, I gave you examples of how other people have different subjective interpretations and uses of cS than your own subjective use, interpretation, and experience. Then, despite agreeing with me that different people can see cS differently, you asked me to prove that different people see cS differently. This struck me as you contradicting your own stated agreement. Why would I need to prove something to you that you say you agree with? Unless you actually don’t agree? I also see your continued refusal to acknowledge this fact to be stubbornness, but I’ll indulge you this time:

            Journalists: http://www.chinasmack.com/about

            Chinese language learners: http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/announcements/dashan-mark-rowswell-recommends-chinasmack-on-sina-weibo.html

            Further links to sources available on both links.

            Are you really going to continue calling me a liar and “slimey” when I tell you something that I think you’re intelligent enough to know, that there are people who see cS as more than a sensationalistic distraction? That there are people who, like us, believe there is other value in cS? That cS isn’t necessarily about framing China in an unflattering light?

            Remember that I previously mentioned both of the above examples and you’re calling me slimey and suggesting I’m making claims I can’t back up because I did not think it necessary to link you and instead told you “About page” and “post involving Dashan”. Do you really think you’re being reasonable here?

            Finally, and ironically, I actually feel you’re the one on MY case, attacking ME, trying to get me to understand where Rusty is coming from even when I have repeatedly made it clear I understand where he’s coming from but simply disagree on his conclusions and more importantly object to his crusade. Look at your language, man. Let’s look at our first few comments with each other:

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/stories/myths-chinese-girls-have-about-laowai-foreign-men.html#comment-801596392

            I see CS as the tabloids of China news. You come here to get the sensational rather than the informed or rational (although as Kai correctly points out that is changing).

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/stories/myths-chinese-girls-have-about-laowai-foreign-men.html#comment-802285884

            I don’t know if it is “changing”. I think the editorial mission of cS predisposes it to having sensational content but I don’t think it necessarily excludes informed or rational content.

            Notice how I was saying I don’t think cS is changing from sensational TO informed/rational? Isn’t that me acknowledging how sensational cS can be, something Rusty believes and you understand? I get it too. My point though was that cS can have both sensational and informed/rational content, that it isn’t necessarily limited to one and should/shouldn’t “change” to the other. I see both, different people see either or both. That’s it.

            But then you hit me with this:

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/stories/myths-chinese-girls-have-about-laowai-foreign-men.html#comment-802285884

            Your attempt at justifying CS on nobler grounds is frankly laughable.

            I didn’t say anything offensive to you and in fact very clearly AGREED with you that cS can be sensational, but then you turn around and say the above? Please review the conversation. I feel like I’ve been the one who is on defense here, with you being the one on my case. Please tell me you can see that.

          • Chang Liu

            This I agree.

          • Kai

            Sounds like you’ve decided I’m not smart enough to be persuaded of the validity of your view of cS. I guess this conversation is over.

          • Rusty

            I still think one thing needs to be clarified here. There are no threats of physical harm or identity exposure, virus attacks or other illegal activities. Let’s just do the experiment of letting the source of your content know about it, including the government (and they will love the Chinese FAQ ^^). If really I am being wrong here, noone will care.

          • Kai

            Yes, I understand, you’re threatening to get cS censored and blocked in China, or sued by Chinese media sites who themselves republish internet content as their modus operandi.

          • Dr Sun

            Rusty, the Internet censor and self appointed world police, working nights from his cold grey office in some anonymous Government building somewhere in Northern China.

          • Gaius Baltar

            Until then, I’ll be looking for the way to expose CS and have it taken down……why in the name of god, WHHHYYYY????!!!!

          • http://twitter.com/AnaPetiteV AnaVirsky

            Rusty, you simply need to learn to be more respectful of people and especially show some respect for women. How can you allow yourself to ”suggest” a woman to consider porn? You’re such a disgusting misogynist. And if you think this site is so crappy, why the hell are you still here commenting? Don’t come here?

          • Austin, TX

            Boom! A reply straight from the Mod-ship. Fair enough, I can respect the cSMACK creed to show an unadulterated China. God knows the cats on 1600 Chang’an Ave. could take a few lessons from y’all. But as someone that must read about so much crazy shit on China on the web, you gotta admit (or maybe can’t b/c of conflict of interest) this topic and the responses are so predictable and boring. Give me “Man Floats Down the Yellow River on a Raft of His Own Feces” any day!

          • Kai

            I think a lot of topics and responses to those topics are predictable and thus boring, to be honest. Censorship, corruption, human rights abuses, etc. etc. etc. Read about and discuss enough of anything and you start seeing it as an endless cycle, an endless cycle of outrage and grief, with the older and desensitized audiences giving way to younger and less-exposed audiences encountering and feeling such emotions for the first time, whether it is outrage, grief, disbelief, condescension, whatever.

            The reason why “anti-foreigner” rants like this continually crop up on the Chinese internet is for the same reason. You’ll have some Chinese netizens who have gotten tired of it and moved on, but you’ll have others who haven’t seen their angst articulated in this way before and find it fresh, resonating with them. It goes on and on, just like the gripes expats and foreigners have about China and Chinese people. Some grow out of it, some grow tired of it, some never do.

          • Rusty

            It’s not moving on, it’s giving up, hoping the parasite will eventually die on its own.

          • Kai

            Sure, or they simply moved on. Aren’t there injustices or gripes you have in life that once bothered you to no end that you no longer care about as much? There are reasons why people move on. Sometimes it is delusion, resignation, but sometimes it is because they’ve gained new perspective.

          • rusty

            While commenting, Brett receives a little electric shock in the butt for each chinaSMACK letter that is not written in the intended way.

          • Brett

            My phone’s keyboard “remembers” how to spell “chinaSMACK” correctly. Thanks for noticing.

          • Rusty

            Fauna don’t worry, whatever happens, Brett’s phone remembers how to spell “chinaSMACK” correctly. You’re safe.

        • slob

          That’s the media for you, controversy generates hits.

          Go watch Black Mirror part 1, it’s very related to this whole thing.

          • Rusty

            Yeah… Fauna, you should do a porn site instead… More hits…
            OH I GOT AN IDEA, Fauna you should DO porn instead!

        • Hongwu Emperor

          Usually posts related to Japan [curiosity, tensions, crisis,etc] scores a high number of posts also…

          Besides, topics involving foreign men/native woman [or vice versa obviously] score high number of posters because people for a strange reason like to comment about those things.

      • x1sfg

        Good point.

        Basically some netizen or reporter finds an obscure article online, and it becomes more popular in the target country than in the host nation.

        Laughable when the CCP or the DPRK does it with The Onion articles, not realizing the satire.

    • slob

      The article is garbage obviously, I’m more interested in part 4 with their reactions to it.

      • MonkeyMouth

        ya….. keep on stirring this cauldron of hate and envy!!! bring it on!!!!

        • slob

          I’m just interested to see if they agree with this knob head or if they just brush it off. Something tells me the former will prevail.

      • the ace of books

        I’m curious, too. I figure people are too smart for this shit, but I wanna see how.

    • xiaohouzi

      Agreed. I don’t get enough discrimination in China as it is. If you don’t want me in China then say so and send me back to Europe where the Algerians can stone me for not wearing sport pants. Is there anywhere on Earth i can go to avoid growing discrimination/mal-education?

      • dim mak

        >Algerians
        Cool immigration policy bro

    • the ace of books

      “Humanity at its lowest.”

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahaha! haha. ha.

      Oh, man, you doesn’t really know about humanity, does you?

      • rusty

        Fauna, when CS hits the stock market (very obvious sarcasm), please get this one as your spokesperson ^o^

        • the ace of books

          I shall take that as the compliment it was so clearly intended as. Cheers!

    • rusty

      This is the very point of the whole website, of each single article. In one place people get sex, scandal, the feeling of superiority that naturally comes from over-watching someone behind a tinted glass, this is pure perversion. And when you are finished reading you have a tool to find someone to fuck.

    • Chang Liu

      What growing tension? Any sane person can see this articles is a lot of hagsbollock.

  • MonkeyMouth

    glad this racist rambling has only 3 parts. i cant take much more. When explaining people’s behaviour, please put away the broad brush, dude. While some of your points can be quasi-successfully broadbrushed ( such as what to talk about on a first date), dont pretend that you can get into the mind of an entire bloc of cultures. and i bet you dont have laowai friends of any merit. who is this clown, seriously? a shill for the new regime?

    • slob

      I wonder if Fauna has any dox on this guy, would love to have a chat with him. Well, it would be more of an argument as a conversation with this dude would probably end up with me sleeping at the keyboard.

      • rusty

        There is a link to the original article, be a man and go… Maybe you can educate him… You are doing God’s work…

  • PALADIN

    hahahahahahahahaaa ! This article is the figment of someones imagination.

  • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

    This accredited researcher must have been stroking himself for quite a long time, seeing how big of an article this is.

    • linette lee

      I feel kind of bad for author now. Maybe I should talk to him on his blog and offer him a hug. Everything will be alright.

      • Probotector

        Then he’ll ejaculate prematurely.

        • linette lee

          I feel that this author is angry because he doesn’t get what he wants in real life. So what. I can’t get Jay chou. I am not bitching and crying and blame the whole world.

          • mr.wiener

            Please accept this virtual hug :)

          • rusty

            Sluts who get pounded by over 20+ guys each year don’t count.

          • Nick in Beijing

            Not the whole world Linette… only the laowai.

          • linette lee

            hahaha.. This is so sad. We all bxllshxt on internet, but in real life I doubt any one of us really ARE that predjudice. I doubt this chinese author really hate ALL foreigners. He may even have foreigner friends.

            He is definitely bitter though, and he is venting his bitterness on the internet. He needs to stop wasting time on the computer and go get a girlfriend so he won’t be so bitter.

          • Rusty

            Getting someone to fuck is your answer to everything, “girl who had so many encounters she can’t remember the number”?

          • mr.wiener

            You should chat with AnthonyLudovici. I think the 2 of you would get along famously.

          • Hongwu Emperor

            ‘He may even have foreign friends’. or maybe not, because modern-day so called ‘nationalists’ at the first day want to kill an american at the first sight, the next day they are drinking coke and hearing rap.

            so that’s it :/

          • yumi ishihara

            I AM bitching and crying that I can’t get Jay Chou. :3

      • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

        Be careful. He seems like he hasn’t gotten any attention from a girl in a long, long time.

      • mr.wiener

        Nothing a dildo wouldn’t fix.[for the blogger I mean]

  • slob

    I laughed at so many of this guy’s opinions and exaggerated ‘facts’ about foreign men. He appears to me as that Chinese guy who hangs around foreigners to try and improve his own status. Yes, all you foreign guys in China will relate to this – that dumb ass Chinese guy who hangs around the foreign groups at the bars that no-one likes and tries to join in on the jokes even though he fails most of the time, he’s not attractive in any way, he’s annoying and the foreign girls find him repulsive, he tries to act like a foreigner but is clueless in everything he does and he’s that guy that you wonder “who the fck in this group actually likes this guy and keeps bringing him out???”
    I’ve been here a long time and have seen so many examples of how pathetic Chinese men can be towards women. My first liason officer tried ‘using’ me to help him get girls (that were students by the way). The first Chinese friend I ever had ended up Cblocking me on a girl I really liked and even went as far as stealing money from me to buy her gifts. Yes, stole money from me. I kicked him out of my apartment the next day. Every one of my wife’s relatives that are married have either a mistress or they frequent the brothels. This being the Spring festival and all of them gathered in one city, nearly every night I have been invited to go drinking then visit the pink light places which I decline as it is really fcked up watching them come home after sticking it to some whore and then sleep with their wives like nothing happened. I know of a lot of married foreign men and do not know a single one who has a mistress or visits brothels ever. Every time I go out with the wife’s rellos, the topic always falls to picking up young gullible girls and how they get away with it. Yeah, it’s only foreign guys who do it. Get real you fcking idiot.
    And why do foreign men have such carefree lives and don’t save money for years to buy a house and often blow their salary as soon as it comes? Simple. Our welfare situations in our countries are better. In Australia the govt. pays YOU to have children and you get paid every week depending on how many you have. Even if you don’t have a job, you can get paid every week and live comfortably. The deposits on houses are like 5% whereas here it’s more like 50%. We have less pressure when it comes to money and work so we live simple, easy lives. These factors are a lot more attractive for women looking for a partner to settle down with which is one of the reasons Chinese women find foreign men more suitable (among other reasons). If you put yourself in a girl’s shoes, what would she rather? Think about it for a sec. Don’t just think about the man, but think about what he has to offer. It’s not rocket science. It comes down to a simple choice :-
    (a) Foreign male – Mature, a gentleman, funny, has features Chinese women like, comes from a country that can provide security, sexually experienced, lives carefree, independent (doesn’t rely on family), has a broader mind, masculine – doesn’t look like a girl or a big baby, cares about his appearance (Hi Chinese guys, maybe wear some cologne once in a while?), the list goes on.
    (b) Chinese male – Immature, treats women like they’re inferior, looks like a child even at 40, has to save for years to provide a house and live off his parents, sexually inexperienced up to 25 or later, as funny as a damp cloth, closed-minded, propaganda controlled robot, feminine and has the voice of a little girl, doesn’t care about his appearance and cares only about making money, and has the features that girls do not find attractive.
    Downvotes inc. You know it’s all true.

    • MonkeyMouth

      you had me at “hello!” or should i say..”hhhhhhhhellO!”

    • dim mak

      Fuck you bullshit generalizations.
      You just pissed off a large, muscular, Chinese man.

      • slob

        Chinese men with muscles isn’t masculine at all son. They just look like a pack of marshmallows stuck together.

        • meo fio

          These days who like big bulky body-builders? only gay guys are into muscle heads. Most girls are ok as long as you are fit.

          • Gay Azn Boi

            You seem to know me very well.

        • dim mak

          You just pissed off my marshmallows son

        • carmouflagger

          ” look like a pack of marshmallows”
          Hey, that’s Kim jon-un.

      • mr.wiener

        ….dressed as a maid.

    • x1sfg

      Seems like you have an axe to grind and a chip on your shoulder, much like the author.

      Ever wonder why everyone looks down on the Aussies and their lack of class? Basically, the Chinese version of the commonwealth nations.

      • mr.wiener

        Whatya mean a lack of class?!! Aussies got class, we got class coming out of our arse!

        • meo fio

          Aussies are like the school in the summer

          • mr.wiener

            “Aussies are like the school in the summer”

            Um…..because it’s hot? …because all the kids are on holiday? …because it looks like a casting call for “Home and away”?
            Why? I must know why, please tell me why?

          • the ace of books

            Let me add a few more guesses:

            …because the lights are on and no one’s home?
            …because there’s no one in them?
            …because they’re under rennovation?

            yeah I give up too

          • SuperHappyCow

            OH, WOW, ACTUALLY DIDN’T GET WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO SAY, AND WAS GUESSING WHILE YOU GUYS ACTUALLY KNEW AND WERE BEING SARCASTIC. PRETTY FUNNY, actually.

          • http://www.hammerhorror.com/ Malfeitor

            Ummm home and away, rebecca what was she called or isla fisher in her school uniform, yum yum ….

          • http://www.hammerhorror.com/ Malfeitor

            Ali G (cohen) is one lucky git, yo!

        • Kate

          That’s good to know, I’m actually moving to australia in a few months (husband was offered a job) but now I know not to directly stand behind an aussie.

          • mr.wiener

            He’s Korean should know how to drink. I think he’ll fit right in. Just remember “bastard” is often a term of affection in Oz.

        • x1sfg

          I worked with the Oz SAS and the Kiwi SAS for a bit. They took pride in their lack of class. The same could be said of us, but we tone it back in CONUS and depending on the situation. Other than their lack of hygiene, good dudes.

        • EightNineBall

          I Loled. In agreement of course.

        • http://www.hammerhorror.com/ Malfeitor

          Aussie aussie aussie, oi oi oi. Crocodile Dundee is the best film ever, the haters don’t know what they are on about mate!

      • slob

        haha lack of class, brilliant. We don’t really care who looks down on us. Aussies are accepted everywhere they go and everyone wants to move to Australia. There must be a reason for that right?

        And I don’t have a chip on my shoulder. I just hope these comments will get translated onto a Chinese website so they can see our reactions to the article much like “Part 4 features translations of netizen reactions to the overall post.” I could go ahead and make a 3 part article myself from my years of experience here and include absolutely everything, though it’s just a waste of time.

        • Austin

          Well, majority of people do look down on Aussies…cause y’all come from the land down under! So it’s actually cause of geographical reasons. Bad joke? ha!

          • slob

            Well I know girls look down on us, because we’re so good at going down.
            Knowwutimsaying.jpg?

          • Austin

            Going down where? Wait……..oh, I get it now.

        • SuperHappyCow

          I don’t…want to…move to Australia?

        • x1sfg

          Basically people who can’t afford the UK, Canada, or the US go to Australia.

          • http://www.facebook.com/noah.altman Noah Altman

            The cost of living in Australia is not necessarily cheaper than the UK, Canada, and the US. Some things are cheaper while others are more expensive, so it depends on your lifestyle.

          • slob

            So America, UK, and Canada are full of rich people? Are you joking?

            Unemployment rate

            UK – 7.7%
            Canada – 7.4%
            USA – 7.7%
            Australia – 5.4%

            Minimum wage / hour

            USA – $7.25
            UK – 6.19 pds
            Canada – $10
            Australia – $16

            Average salary / year

            USA – $54k
            Australia – $45k
            UK – $44k

            Canada – $42k

            You’re right, Australia is a poor ass country.

          • http://www.hammerhorror.com/ Malfeitor

            I heard Australia was more expensive than the UK because of things costing more due to taxes on imports and so on, Australia is pretty isolated, below is ice, north is jungles, to the right are kiwis, lol

      • moonboyroberts2

        Dumb comment; you sound like you had a bad experience with Australia. Did you lose a gf to an Australian? Denied a work visa due to inadequacy of qualifications? Comments like that generally have a basis in a personal
        slight.

        About the Australian welfare system: Yes, there is a welfare system and you do get paid if you are hard-up, and you can maintain a passable existence; but your quality of life is fairly dismal and it is not something that anyone in Australia woud ever consider an option unless it was absolutely necessary. This guy has painted an overly rosy picture of welfare in Australia which is probably more a description of nordic welfare systems. He seems very familiar with it, and yes, he does go on and on.

        • x1sfg

          We get it, you’re insecure. If you bothered to read any of my other posts and know a little something of my background, your work visa and girlfriend comments make you look like a retard. I don’t know why you think I’d move to a country that doesn’t have anything my country already has with the exception of unique wildlife.

          http://www.stripes.com/news/serving-down-under-australia-offers-military-jobs-to-us-troops-facing-separation-1.176622

          Why do you think that is?

          I have worked with the Aussies, particularly the SAS and like I’ve said, overall good dudes. But smelly.

          If I were Chinese sending my kids to school or to work, Australia is basically a cheaper and less prestigious version of the US, Canada, or UK, especially in the education realm.

    • http://www.hammerhorror.com/ Malfeitor

      The first Chinese friend I ever had ended up Cblocking me on a girl I
      really liked and even went as far as stealing money from me to buy her
      gifts. Yes, stole money from me. I kicked him out of my apartment the
      next day.

      That sucks, and leads me to believe my rule is right. A chinese person only comes into my place if invited and if they stay the night, they sleep in the stairwell with the mosquitoes and feral cats, and not being racist about it either, just stating plain facts. A englishmans castle is HIS castle.

  • Probotector

    I reckon this guy’s wife cheated on him with a ‘laowai’.

    • MonkeyMouth

      wife? i doubt. this guy only masturbates frequently

      • rusty

        Fortunately you guys don’t need it. You have each other.

        • Probotector

          Take you finger out of your ass, it’s hurting your butt.

        • MonkeyMouth

          why do you lash out to me?come on, dude…. get real. ‘this guy’ refers to the author, not you

  • KAMIKAZIPILOT

    I really want to tie this author down to a bed and then fart on his face all night long until he stops obsessing about laowai and chinese girls. Doesn’t he have anything better to do with his time, such as actually trying to meet women. He sucks balls big time.

    • mr.wiener

      You and the farting on the face thing, you’re sick! nearly as bad as Super happy cow wanting to shite in peoples arses.
      Whatever happened to tea-bagging fergodsake?

      • Probotector

        “nearly as bad as Super happy cow wanting to shite in peoples arses.”

        Please! I’m still not over that trauma!

        • SuperHappyCow

          open up big boy

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            ROFL!!! I’m crazy, but you’re really nuts, LOL!!

      • KAMIKAZIPILOT

        But you have to admit all the people who’ve I wanted to fart on really deserved it. I also love smelling Chinese girls farts, does that make me sick too.
        Teabaggers are nuts, although you may disagree with my politics, at least I’m logical and sane.

        • mr.wiener

          Hmmm. A bit more about you than I cared to know. but whatever wanks your crank sir , more power to you.
          Yes, you do use your nuts to teabag someone, but what happens on tour stays on tour :)

        • dim mak

          >I also love smelling Chinese girls farts

          Son
          That’s a nasty fetish :|

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Nasty, really? Wouldn’t cunnilingus be even nastier then? C’mon man, don’t be so prudish.

          • Rusty

            “Smelling Chinese girls’ farts” > That’s a hell of a fan-crowd you got there Fauna! CS is probably your life-defining accomplishment, your ancestors are probably proud of you, you should be too!

      • SuperHappyCow

        Not my fault all cows are both extremely depraved and cultured.

    • dave

      Hey, if you can’t complain about less than 0.03% of the population, what can you complain about?

  • Probotector

    Why does he claim to have ‘laowai friends’ when he clearly has no respect for them?

    • MonkeyMouth

      thats exactly what i thought, man. like some other guy said, is he just that annoying chinese mook at the end of the table putting his pathetic wu mao, and ma pi jing-ing his way to learn something from ‘laowai’? or….. is this whole thing just a smear campaign from this new nationalist commie regime? at least think about it before you call me paranoid……. it dont add up. i dont know anyone who would say these kinds of things to chinese males… cuz we know better.

    • the ace of books

      He doesn’t have friends. He has 吃喝朋友。

      • Probotector

        Makes him sound like a cannibal.

        • the ace of books

          That would be a step up.

    • rusty

      This is so unfair, I was so very shocked too, what kind of world do we live in??? Probotector, you seem like a super-hero, come on, do something!!!

      • Probotector

        Whatever man; 12 upvotes

        • rusty

          Good for you. Be proud.

        • SuperHappyCow

          Probopooptor show us that trick you do where you fellate yourself, again.

          • Probotector

            uh, yeah… good one. Again. Thanks for the random pointless remarks

    • Chang Liu

      Do you respect all your friends?

      • Probotector

        Is trolling all you can do?

        • Chang Liu

          No actually a very serious question. I have a lot of friends who I love and have a good time with. I wouldn’t characterise it as respect though. So the question you asked is loaded with the assumption that he should respect his laowai friends or that if he doesn’t respect them they can’t be friends, both which I don’t think are realistic.

          • Paul Schoe

            Chang Liu, you really surprise me. If I do not respect a person, then how can I see him as a friend? To me friendship includes sympathy and empathy. I want my friends to be able to count on me, the way that I expect to be able to count on them. How can i have all those things if we do not respect each other?

            For me to say that you love a person and consider him your friend, but that you do not respect him, sounds like a very shallow level of friendship. Maybe Probotector puts more value on his friendships.

          • Chang Liu

            Or maybe I characterise my acquaintances as friends as well as closer friends which I cherish. There are no set definition of what friendships can be. To say it is one and must not be the other is rather simplistic don’t you think? I am asking Probatector truthfully about his relationships with his friends, I don’t see how your generalisations help in that regard.

          • Chang Liu

            There is a fine line between acquaintance and friend in every culture and usually in different cultures that line’s not where you’d expect it to be that is before we take into consideration individual habits… But I get what your saying its not an ideal situation. Hey we don’t live in an ideal world.

  • Foreigner in China

    What a load of shite… the author is clearly just bitter, twisted and has an axe to grind. Clearly has no foreign male friends and has no clue why people would have a mixed race relationship… complete load of waffling tosh!

  • dwqdw wdwqdqwd

    China is not a good place for foreigners, it’s getting increasingly hostile. It’s easy to tell by comparing with my own country, there it would be criminal to publish articles that incite hatred against ethnic groups. It’s sad.

    • jones

      what do you have to say about stormfront.org?

      • dwqdw wdwqdqwd

        I don’t know, I guess it would be shutdown quickly, the owner prosecuted, fined and what not.

        • Misiooo

          Really? So much for a freedom of speech in the West.

          • dwqdw wdwqdqwd

            Look up hate speech http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

            Not only in the West.

          • the ace of books

            Freedom of hate speech?

          • Misiooo

            Hate speech? This is newspeak word coined by these poor bastards at ADL. There is freedom or there is not. As simple as that.

          • the ace of books

            It must be easy living in only two colors.

    • Probotector

      Where are you from?

      • dwqdw wdwqdqwd

        Doesn’t matter really, just one country out many where this kind of junk wouldn’t be published.

        • Probotector

          Fair enough, only in China eh?

        • Brett

          Last time I checked, the Internet isn’t a country.

          • dwqdw wdwqdqwd

            Yeah, well, servers tend to stay put in one country.

    • wes707

      …fascism is rearing its ugly head.

  • Val

    So if a girl sleeps with a lot of guys, she’s “easy” and a “slut”, but if a guy sleeps with a lot of girls, it’s normal? Tsk.

    • linette lee

      It’s called stud.

    • SuperHappyCow

      That always annoyed the fuck out of me. D:

  • non of the above.

    Fantastic showcase of racial stereotyping. now excuse me whilst I go steal money from my wife’s purse to spend on prostitutes.

    • Dr Sun

      LOL

  • Beijinger in Siam

    Thanks for reminding me why I don’t really read Chinasmack anymore with this garbage post.

    Hint: no one cares. No guy with options is all that interested in dating, much less marrying a woman from mainland China.

    • eztmegtesem

      I second this. Really boring, didn’t read. Also, who the hell would touch a female chonglet anyway??

      I demand articles about dead chinese. Graphic gore please. Chinese new year isn’t over yet!

      Chinkicide

      • Rusty

        More vultures for Fauna.

        • ehhezmitszolsz?

          I am no vulture, I prey on the changz. I am proud I can state: I did break chinese bone and did shed chinese blood irl.
          (don’t worry, I am vaccinated against hepatitis)

          I disagree with CS’ censorship btw. Everybody knows dead chinese* is the good chinese, I don’t see why we can’t talk about it.

          Chinkicide

          /*of course, unborn chinese is even better, hail to the 1-child-policy, and support 0-child-policy/

  • julien

    like the first part of the article, this is a good piece of crap…

  • Will Shaker

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

  • Shmar

    What an offensive, tendentious, xenophobic piece of ***. The world seems to be simple black and white in that guy’s mind.

  • Feylin

    Chinese people have no understanding of the dating game. I shake my head every time I read about it.

  • mr.wiener

    This guy saved his best for last, he reeeealy has a low opinion of women in general and Chinese women in particular.
    One can easily duplicate the mental arithmatic going here:
    “Women won’t sleep with me, but I see some of them with foreigners…….Therefore these women are dumb sluts”.

    • monmon

      Same story, different nationalities.

    • Kate

      You know as a woman reading this, I thought this whole piece was really a misogynistic attack on women more so then foreign men. He paints women, especially chinese women, as very stupid, ony using their vaginas to get things, are easily persuaded into doing anything, etc. This man has more of an issue with women then he does foreign men. Ah well hatred against women is always alive and well in some men and those men especially hate women who are confident and in control of their own sex lives and desires.

      • quake

        one thing good about CHina is it doesn’t have a high rape of minority women:uygur,white,indian etc WHERE as your america does. Native American women are mostly raped by non-natives in the good old USA.

        • Kate

          This has nothing to do with my post. I don’t care.

        • vincent

          As though China is open with official statistics regarding rape and such, I’ll bet a lot of women don’t report rapes due to the consequences it brings such as being ostracized by society, hurting their chances for finding a good partner. There is also the fact that the law usually sides with the rich and well connected so if it has to do with statistics in China it is best taken with a grain of salt.

      • mr.wiener

        The thing that unite us all. We find dickheads and good people in every race and culture.

        • Chang Liu

          Too true.

      • Chang Liu

        Sounds like bit of both really.

      • http://twitter.com/AnaPetiteV AnaVirsky

        The thing that amused me a little about this article was that if the women get paid to sleep they are prostitutes, and if the women simply want to have sex with those guys without looking for financial support or gifts are cheap, ”free” women. Apparently, neither way to this guy is good. lol

    • Rusty

      He can also be a married man with children who wish for the world to become better and humans to have better respect for each other, a man who feel despair about seeing China become alienated with so much openness about sex that is promoted by foreigners. But you all are too stupid to see a little further than the little tip of your little wiener, and only think that’s because he himself cannot have the said sex. All because you will all instinctively believe he is ridiculous for even thinking that your behavior might be a problem. And since you are up-voted by each other, you have no reason to doubt it. Which comforts me in the idea that commenting and up-voting are cancers of the Internet. You are not smart enough to be allowed to spread your opinions, especially on subjects that weren’t intended to be read by you.

      • mr.wiener

        Hmm, any chance of you making a list of subjects that can be read by the likes of myself , internet cancer cell that I am?.
        That will in all likelyhood be a small list.

        • Rusty

          I am not that extreme and you know it very well. I just think we are flawed enough without creating tools that promote those flaws. Facebook is the perfect example of a cancer of civilization. Let’s all be friends, share everything, ideally fuck each other. Western culture has this passive aggressive way of imposing itself, gaining ground over cultures which doesn’t have aggressive components to defend themselves. CS is an example of the Western culture gaining ground, it has been created by Chinese people and their ideas didn’t come from Chinese teachings. Open-minded Western culture putting its feet on the dinner table, saying “come on, relax a little”. I am getting out of points here. I guess my two months of commenting are coming to an end.

          • mr.wiener

            ” I guess my two months of commenting are coming to an end.”

            *wild cheering heard in the background*
            We’ve had the great war, the phony war, we’ve even had the cold war. Now welcome to the war of soft power, the Cultural Wars. As site like this nibble away at China credibility and sanity And the west’s allies put catchy beats in your head [That's Gangnam style!] China must face up to the fact that it’s one of the big boys now and must put away childish things. Having a shit fit and playing the victim works when you are a pre-teen, but nobody loves a washed up ex-child actor.
            As stated earlier it is wise for a culture to cherry-pick the things it wants from the outside world rather than slam the door in the face of pop culture and find your daughter is turning trick to support her addictions.
            If you are but a part time man from La Mancha then get back to your real life and stop tilting at windmills. They are after all only windmills, not giants.

          • Rusty

            I really wonder what you are doing here, interacting with those people. As for me, I’ll just have to avoid this website. Just makes me angry and react irrationally. But it doesn’t mean that I am wrong. Farewell.

  • jesus

    pathetic and buthurtted player…and even more fauna trying to get more of this stereotyped article…guess what, guess if this would be talking about chinese male and us-gals, all this would sound quite racist…

    • meo fio

      imply there’s no racism against chinese male in US

      • jesus

        quite weak point that forgets about that there are many chinese holding a USA passport who consider themselves americans and no one is talking about a common behavior based on their skin color, thats called eu Anyway a quite weak point, you do it so i do it.

        • meo fio

          The point is you don’t see chinese in US get butthurt everytime somene writes something offensive about chinese

          • Probotector

            Nah, of course not, that would be silly.

          • slob

            You’re right. They usually write something slanderous like “Go home g__ks” or whatever in one sentence or a paragraph. They don’t make 3 massive articles dedicated to the subject and if they do, the Chinese in America have every right to respond to it negatively. Link me an article like this against Chinese and I’d be interested to see the responses.

          • meo fio

            3 articles? they are just 3 posts on a BBS

            you can just scroll up to Scytheria’s comment.

          • SuperHappyCow

            Yeah, I could find posts comparatively as long or vitriolic on this site about how awful Chinese men are, with almost exclusive thumbs up. I can probably find them on this article. Come on, Slob.

          • SuperHappyCow

            Asian-Americans are quite often treated as permanent foreigners, no matter what. You’re talking about an article on a troll forum. Go to stormfront and find me non-racist forums, please.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            True, but it actually doesn’t bother me as much as people think it would because I’ve never been patriotic or a proud American anyway. I’m only proud of myself and my accomplishments, not of being a certain nationality. My loyalty is to my loved ones, not to any one country. I bothers me more because people can be so dumb and ignorant as I hate those kinds of people in general.

          • SuperHappyCow

            Being treated as a second class citizen doesn’t bother you?

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Being considered a foreigner who’s first language isn’t English doesn’t necessarily equal second-class treatment. I’m just talking about the times where people ask what country I’m from, what’s my first language, how long I’ve lived in the US. To me it’s plain ignorance that all racials groups in the US are guilty of (whites, blacks, other asians). To me it’s similar to the perception that most foreigners can’t speak Mandarin no matter how long they’ve lived in China.

            Don’t get me wrong, I know there is a lot of racial discrimination and injustice in the US. If I sense unequal or second class treatment it bothers me and I’ll stand up for myself and do something. Too many Asian-Americans are passive when it comes to this kind of treatment so I feel an even stronger need to stand up to any injustice. While the “perpetual foreigner” stereotype isn’t good, there are a lot greater things to be concerned about. I guess it’s because I’ve never felt the need to fit in and be accepted by mainstream American culture. If people think I’m not a citizen, that’s their problem. I just set the record straight with them and if they still insist, I break the conversation off and tell them they’re an idiot. Anyway, I believe Americans in general are more accepting of Asians as Americans than say 20 or 30 years ago, which is good news.

          • SuperHappyCow

            But even in that last line there, there’s an implication that Asian’s aren’t American.

            I dunno. Perpetual foreignness is a big problem, if you ask me. I feel like Asian-Americans hide their culture a lot, which has always baffled me.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            I will say that the concept of perpetual foreigness can lead to unfair and biased treatment, which is a problem. Asians in general tend to defer to the dominant culture (usually white) more than other groups. In the US, and I assume other western countries, they have the greatest desire to blend in and assimilate, hence the high intermarriage rates amoung other things. Often this leads to low self-esteem and self-hatred, which is pretty sad and pathetic. IMO, GAB is a prime example of this, but shhhhhh, don’t tell him I said so, LOL.

      • Probotector

        Not on the same scale as racism against anyone not Chinese in China.

        • SuperHappyCow

          China claimed to be a free, egalitarian country never.

          • Probotector

            Still trolling are you? Also, you’ll gladly accept racism if it’s not American racism yes? Hypocrite.

          • SuperHappyCow

            Yeah, because China claimed to be a free, egalitarian country never.

            What don’t you understand? Chinese never really claimed to not be racist, or a “free, equal opportunity” society. Doesn’t mean I like their shitty behavior.

            “Boo hoo, they don’t like me here.”

            Fucking leave, idiot.

  • Nilerafter24

    Though I was pissed at first with this series and his crass generalizations, this guy does raise some legit points. Albeit, vehemently and stupidly.

    Come on, we all know at least one scumbag foreigner who does the stuff this guy says.
    But the number of good foreigners largely outnumber the kind he just described.
    Another point I’ll agree on: No foreigner I know takes women who dress like girls seriously. Most just get in, get laid and bounce. Like the whole Hello Kitty and San siro toy girl nonsense is extremely unappealing. I mean, men want to date women, not children.
    And to be honest, Chinese men in my experience are more prone to adultry than foreigners. The number of ‘pleasure services’ at hotels and ktvs on working days is astounding. All those bmws and audis parked outside. Come on, we all know grown men don’t enjoy singing that much.

    All in all, a lot of what this author says is BS. Too generalized and too much foreign hatred in the tone of the article to be taken seriously. Just another jealous wanker that can’t get laid.

  • Salazar 2323

    Dear stupid robot Chinese imbecile,

    I only had to read just a tiny bit of this to know that you’re completely fucking retarded. You can’t just say that all Laowai are any which way whatsoever. What’s funny and ironic is that you are judging people based on the standards of your own culture. You can’t understand that people from other countries might just want to get to know someone, have a relationship based on interests and having fun and seeing where it goes. Most of us aren’t thinking about practical things like money and jobs because being from developed countries WE ALREADY HAVE THOSE THINGS! I’m in China because I am genuinely interested in learning another language, another culture (parts of it anyway) and gaining teaching experience. I am not looking to make it in China. I have money in the bank. I am not looking for any Chinese girls. Most of the ones I have met think in the same backwards, robotic way you seem to and it’s really unattractive. You can’t just generalize about people, even your own people, because it’s just not the way it works. People aren’t sheep.

  • Billy

    This guy has never met a real laowai in his life.

    • Probotector

      His intention is to rile up nationalist resentment against foreigners because of his own or a general feeling of insecurity of Chinese people, especially Chinese males who have issues with seeing their “little sisters” with ‘laowai’. This sort of thing comes along occasionally, just pay it no mind.

      • slob

        I think it may backfire as he didn’t present it well enough. He comes off as a douchebag even to Chinese people and anyone with a brain can see his lack of respect for women and own insecurities. Articles like this will only make the girls more curious much like Sister Feng – if people ignored her, she would have been forgotten. Now she is famous and last time I heard, she had a valentine’s date with a millionaire.

        Suppose we should thank this idiot in a way.

        • Probotector

          But with greater ‘publicity’ can bring greater resentment. What if this sort of thing instigates a new national anti-foreigner sentiment? Unlikely perhaps, and i’s simply a flavor of the month thing at the moment, but we always need to be careful.

  • Jesus

    actually thanks fauna and the author for this. Is a wake up call for me at least to better observe my chinese male friends and not trust them so much like I use to do before.

    • Brett

      I don’t think that’s what they were hoping you would do… This is purely fictional entertainment, don’t look at Chinese guys differently because of some silly opinion.

  • http://twitter.com/Scytheria1 Scytheria

    It seems the author of this crap doesn’t understand the one single thing that distinguishes ‘laowai’ from Chinese men – a sense of individuality. Thus, when he assumes that all ‘laowai’ are easily categorized and analysed by his drivel, he is doing so only because he does not comprehend that doing so is futile. He cannot see beyond the uniform, hive-culture mentality that Chinese men share, and works on the basis that all foreigners must have a uniform, hive culture too (albeit different to his own).

    The reason foreign men do well with Chinese women is their individuality. Every one of them is different; different politics, different beliefs, different views about life and family, different experiences, different styles and demeanor, different ways of living and loving. Chinese men, however, are pretty much uniform in their unwavering view that China is brilliant, that they are brilliant, that making and spending money is the only important thing in life (besides stuffing their faces with food, smoking like bonfires, gambling and whoring), and that their odious hygiene and habits are somehow made up for by being wildly misogynistic and ignorant.

    • Probotector

      What you said makes sense, and your defense of foreigners in China is all well and good, but it seems like hypocrisy when it’s coming from the same person who considered amnesty for illegal immigrants in the UK to be a good thing, and advocated deporting the country’s own citizens simply because they’re ‘lazy’.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants-7966275.html

    • SuperHappyCow

      I can’t get over your amazing name.

      • Probotector

        Masturbating to it are you? Hint, it’s not her!

    • Appalled@everything

      Beautifully said!

    • Dr Sun

      I like the “Hive-mind” thing, but your right they have been assimilated into the collective, but then again so have most Chinese women.
      Some break free from the collective when USS Laowai sweeps in though

  • The Enlightened One

    This is boring. I usually read most articles through and through but stopped on this one. It is complete trash like some angry loser would write alone in his dorm after seeing a girl he likes being stolen by his foreign English teacher or fellow foreign schoolmates.

    Wasted my god damn time!

    • rusty

      God, not your time… Author, do you see what you’ve done?

  • Alex

    Lel, just heard a story from a chinese classmate. He just tried to get to bed with a very good female friend he has juts because he was lonely, tried to cheat but it also didn’t work. So he tried desperately with his friend.

    His way of doing it: *random conversation* “I rented a hotel room for us”

    LOL!

    About the OP… insane butthurt.

  • Appalled@everything

    Hurts my brain reading such ridiculous and incorrect writing. I guess this guy will get a job working for Xinhua or something where he can preach similar lies to the masses and become the icon he dreams of, and all the while those wretched, loathsome laowai will be around every corner, in every darkened doorway, hiding under his bed, scuttling under the kitchen cabinet when he turns on the light, and always, always will laowai be the cause of all of his life’s failures, rejections and disappointments until the day of his death, which will also be somehow caused by a laowai.

    • Probotector

      How much money do you think he made off of this three-part rant on tianya? Ad revenue alone would have been pretty handsome because of all the hits it would get on that site. You’re right he could probably get a muck racking job in the future. Hate sells in China.

  • Probotector

    This clown has no penis.

    • mr.wiener

      …No penis that has ever been near a woman anyway.

    • SuperHappyCow

      Because all clowns have penises?

      Racist.

      • SuperHappyCow

        I’m still furious that I cannot downvote my own comments.

  • Alex

    butthurt

  • Alain

    Is anyone else getting annoyed with these stereotypical postings of laowai this, chinese girl that…I sure am:(

    • Gay Azn Boi

      I’m sure the author got exactly what he wanted. Just look at the shitstorm in the comments.

  • vincent

    The author is not a woman or a foreigner but claims to be an expert on both, how quaint.

  • markus peg

    As long as people understand this is a generalization its ok.

    however i feel that most people will read this to encompass every laowai who comes to or is in China

  • Chat2Arseholes

    “Next, the laowai makes a move, but not like obscene Chinese men who suddenly start kissing by force or grabbing the boobs, scaring the girl away. Every laowai man is adept at flirting. He will first gaze at the girl, first seducing with his eyes, and this gazing will be one of infatuation and admiration, making you feel as if you’ve suddenly become the most beautiful woman. Then he will gently touch your arm, whisper flattering words in your ears, and at the same time blow in your ear, arousing a girl’s lust. Here, many girls will find it difficult to control themselves. Facing a romantic, wealthy, tasteful, deep, sweet man, who wouldn’t be moved/tempted?

    Then the laowai who knows how to read women will evaluate the situation. If this woman has been aroused by his seduction, then he can passionately kiss her or caress her back and waist. If not, then he will wait patiently for while, say even more flattering sweet words, gaze at her a little longer, etc.

    Under this circumstance, those girls who are used to the obscene and stupid Chinese men will usually be unable to control themselves, and their belts will be mostly loosened.”

    oh god
    pmsl

    • Opinion

      I know, it’s like Tommy Wiseau wrote that or something

  • Longwai

    Hahahaha… this is fabulous! At one point in the tirade I was not able to tell if he was trying to get Chinese women to shag more foreigners. Depending on the tone of voice it is either a warning or a ‘how-to’ manual. Lol. TMD 50c SB!!

  • Mr.cock

    What’s the difference, let me give you an example. One night i was drunk as fuck—-> i met two chinese girls, in the end of night i asked ” maybe we should have sex ?”, first other girl said “with both of us ?” “at the same time ?” i said sure, why not if that is no a problem for you. Girls were smiling and chuckling to each other and obviously they were a bit confused first, who in earth would propose an act like that. I do ! i have balls. So…the result was ? yeah, it didn’t happen at that night, but later i got them. Sweet ! believe or not, it’s up to you.

    • the ace of books

      Whether or not you believe it, all that matters is that I believe it!

  • David

    Chinese girls are just bitches!!!!!! No doubt. If you marry a Chinese shit, You will be jinxed for all your life! They are easy , cheap and shitty whore!

  • David

    Chinese girls just need money, new passport. When they marry a westerner, they despise Chinese people. How bitchy they are! They are only worth being played!

  • http://profiles.google.com/lukejanicke Luke Janicke

    Don’t get too up in arms over this article.

    1) This is ChinaSMACK, so expect this low level of article. “Yo dun wan smack bro? Yuse in tha wrong hood!” If you want better reads on China check out Rectified.Name and theworldofchinese.com for starters.

    2) The Chinese Internet is full of way off balance content. Remember those islands? But so is English Internet, in fact all the Internet. Why go to the very bottom and then get all angry. Just ’cause someone shits, doesn’t mean you have to go over and smell it, then do an angry troll dance around it.

    3) While the article is full of stereotypes (mostly perceived, not real) and sweeping generalizations, some Chinese girls could benefit from the shock stimulus; it might encourage some critical thinking in their thoughts towards foreign suitors.

    Thanks, ChinaSMACK for bringing these articles to us. But please balance it with other content.

    • Probotector

      It’s an issue for those of us who live in China and have to put up with this rhetoric every day.

      • SuperHappyCow

        Boo hoo.

      • Rusty

        Get out, go away and die. I’m begging you.

        • Jesus

          the one that should go away and die would be more possibly you and the douch who write this shit for a bunch of maos….is thanks some brainwashed golem like you that china will never replace the US. The chinese way of life is simple crap, and you are very representative..

          • Rusty

            Don’t want to replace the US. Just want you and your little friends out.

          • mr.wiener

            Jesus and friends?

        • Probotector

          Or how about you stop being a xenophobic prick?

    • the ace of books

      cSmack has a wide variety of articles. it’s just been doing a series on this because it’s one long spew, and also because it gets 1) hits and 2) comments. Check out the rest of cSmack, and don’t just take this as its only content.

      Also, your Point 2 and final plea are both refuted by the first sentence of your Point 1. chinaSMACKDOWN!

      • dave

        I remember from one of the earlier ones that someone said this wasn’t even a very popular article on Tianya. Conclusion: It must have been picked explicitly to troll us.

        • the ace of books

          1) hits
          2) comments

          it done its job admirably :D

          • Kai

            Is the email address associated with your Disqus account legit (one you own/check)?

          • the ace of books

            It’s legit, yeah, I just don’t check it more than once a week – it’s my sign-up-for-net-stuff email.

          • Kai

            Gotcha, I just sent an email to it.

          • the ace of books

            Alright! Received, and am currently replying!

          • the ace of books

            Just checked it but I don’t see any notices or anything, just my most recent comments here and on JapanCrush – just checking up?

        • Kai

          Fauna replied to you and that accusation: http://www.chinasmack.com/?p=45388#comment-792649190

          Frankly, though, there’s tons of content on cS that could accused of being translated explicitly to troll whoever “us” refers to. The best “trolling” posts are those where people see or choose to only see entirely different things in the same article, and then argue with each other in the comments over it.

          Personally (and I do meant this personally), the entire site is one massive sociological experiment and showcase in confirmation bias.

      • http://profiles.google.com/lukejanicke Luke Janicke

        Hehe. I like a bit of “smack”, that’s why I read ChinaSMACK. And I have started reading the other articles on this site (will read more). I just mean to say there’s no point any of us getting wound up over this article. Understand where it comes from and whose opinion it represents. Let it inform your comprehensive understanding of the full spectrum of Chinese society. Sometimes it’s good to see what the low end of Chinese “netizens” are saying about foreigners. My Chinese level isn’t good enough to go check out the sources. So, I’m glad the article was translated and republished here. We really needn’t take anything personally. It’s obviously an unbalanced article. Read, laugh, move on =)

        • quake

          actually white women are saying the same thing about our women

        • the ace of books

          Nah, don’t worry, man. I’m not the kind who takes things personally, because it’s the internet, and, well… lol, internet. Mostly I was just cautioning you about just that – take into account who it is talking and why – but seems you got that covered. Cheers!

  • Lalitadityamuktapida

    Chinese men are too nice. Nice is boring. So women are bored with Chinese men. Foreign men are aggressive and experienced. This is very exciting to women. So women have sex with laowai so easily. I’m Indian. My advice to to my chinese brothers is this. Stop being nice. Start being aggressive. And start trying to have casual sex with Foreign women. That will give you the dangerous edge that you need. Remember, women are excited by dangerous men and bored by nice men. One of my chinese friend here in singapore is learning that. After a few months of practising and learning the pick up skills, he finally had sex with a German girl that he picked up from a nightclub. He shocked everyone with his ability. I suggest to all Chinese guys to start learning pick up skills and teaching these to your brothers if you already know. Give foreign men some competition. You will win back your women this way. Stop moping. Start acting. Onward, my brothers.

    • dave

      I’d prefer to think of myself as nice than aggressive.

      A Chinese friend of mine, handsome kid, was being persued by a French girl I knew. She really dug him.

      He was being all shy about it, and asked me for advice. I asked him, “Well, what do you want? Do you want her?”

      “Yes, you know I want!”

      “Well, she wants you, too. Go for it, what do you have to lose?”

      Is that “aggressive?” Or just “obvious?”

      They’re still together, last I checked. I’m kinda proud, actually.

      • Germandude

        Could you please link me to the article you’ve written in some forum, complaining about white women betraying their countries when finding a Chinese cheater? oh snap, I assume you didn’t write such an insecure bullshit because you couldn’t care less. Well played.

        • SuperHappyCow

          Jesus fucking christ, at how you think this is clever. Chinese men being upset about this is an obvious reaction to the fallout of how their culture values absolutely stupid shit.

          A more insightful comment would be something anything remotely like what I just said, because I can assure you, white guys do get butthurt when I am in the company of white women. To deny that would be to deny that websites like Stormfront, states like Arizona, or entire sections of a fucking nation, like the southern United States exists. FUCK.

  • Rick in China

    “Chinese men are usually very practical at the early stages of a relationship, but they become very romantic after you are together.”

    Yes, I see the romantic interactions between all the mid-age married couples. SO romantic. That’s why older Chinese women also seek younger sex toys, right? Hahaha…

    The reason there are so many brothels and bath houses is because mistresses/prostitution is rampant among married men. The ones with the wife and excess money to spend on the prostitution, calling it “business expense” or “social activity” for the “better of the household”. So romantic.

    The author is so disillusioned about reality. Really quite sad to think so many will read this and just take it as being “so right!”

  • the ace of books

    Gosh, what a bunch of baseless, idiotic, self-pleasuring whinging. It’s like he goes out of his way to hit all the fine points of dickery. Wonder what this spineless little bag of dicks has to say about foreign women/chinese men…

    • Probotector

      “Wonder what this spineless little bag of dicks has to say about foreign women/chinese men..”

      ‘Glory to the Motherland’, probably.

    • mr.wiener

      He probably still hates it because he’s not getting any of that action either.

      • the ace of books

        And he never will :D

  • don mario

    lol, its not even readable.

    • rusty

      Don’t worry, people don’t even read it. Too many words.

  • Reila90

    I don’t like this article. But think of this, American often despise Asian male in their media right. So why Chinese can’t do the same?

    • mr.wiener

      Two wongs make a white? [sorry I'm addicted to bad puns]
      I’m not going to say Western media ain’t bias, ‘case it is ,but really: “American often despise Asian male in their media”……umm, you think so, in a systematic state controlled way I mean?

      • linette lee

        …….Two wongs make a white…?………

        hahah…lol. You are so bad. Some chinese guy will attack you. ;)

      • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

        Then why haven’t they killed off Glen yet? They even gave him the only attractive white woman.

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          Hey are you talking about “The Walking Dead”? You must be. One of the best shows ever. I have a feeling Rick won’t make it till the end, but Glenn will, something about the underdog making it. But Glenn is a rare exception regarding the portrayal of an asian male on American television. Characters like him are few and far between. There is a bias against asian males in the western media, no doubt.

          • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

            True, but honestly although there are a lot of Asian people in the US, when you compare it to the rest of the population, they make up a very small percentage of the population. So in the event that there’s a zombie apocalypse, and you’re in the Southeastern part of the US, an Asian male would be a rare find regardless.

            But no, I get it. I was just being facetious when talking about Glen. I read the comic book up to issue 55, which is about when Rick started to lose his mind. It’s pretty good, and a little bit different (the bad part of different is that there’s no Darrel in the comic version).

            Best show, though? No way. It has to contend with the likes of Game of Thrones and Boardwalk Empire.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Never saw Gome of Thrones or Boardwalk Empire. To me TWD has “Prison Break” as competition. Both star Sarah Callies. Coincidence? I don’t know but if I hear she’s in another series I’m going to watch.

          • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

            Prison Break is pony league, son. This here Game of Thrones and Boardwalk Empire be Major League teams.

    • donkeykong

      Western media rarely despises Asian males.
      Laughs at them sometimes…… but rarely despises them.

      • Reila90

        Nope.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=22624249 Sean Cauffiel

      This is the same nonsense that is repeated about everything in Western media. “Boo hoo hoo, American newspapers hurt our feelings, boo hoo hoo, BBC said bad things about China.”

      The truth is that in China, the media always says bad things about the West and good things about China. In the West, the media always says bad things about China AND bad things about the West.

    • wes707

      Could you give us some examples? I think your heavily propagandized education is shinning through.

      • Reila90
        • wes707

          Okay, all the stuff from the Wikipedia refers to events from 100 years ago; East Asians were equally as rasist (we were the barbarians, remember?). You said “media.” I was looking for real examples of direct despising of Asians in the modern media.

          Let’s see, Western countries opened and let people from all over the world come to seek better educations and livelihoods. Yes, there will be problems with integration but at least our societies are open enough to let people take our nationalities without being of the same race. Has this ever happened in any other civilization? Certainly not in East Asia. Do you know what the Chinese would say if I were able to get Chinese citizenship and then complain that they weren’t bending over backwards to help me fit in? They would tell me to get the fuck out of their country.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Western_sentiment_in_China

          • dim mak

            Yeah, letting immigrants walk all over you in the name of ‘tolerance’ isn’t impressive, it’s just stupid

            And China isn’t that stupid

            u jelly?

          • wes707

            No because I don’t find fascism that appealing. And it just shows how completely ungrateful people like you are.

          • Reila90

            How “direct” do you want? it still happen in today modern media. Just like foreigner living in Asia, Asian American are perpetual foreigner too. Asian American often get stereotype as much as foreigners in Asia. The analogy of America as a melting pot is absolute crap. Because it’s attempting to force people of color to assimilate to a White-privileged culture and othering them.
            “Has this ever happened in any other civilization? Certainly not in East Asia”
            Yes. But you can’t use today globalization standard of “melting pot”. China, Japan, & Indonesia was a melting pot nation. They’re created by cultures, religions, & ethnics mixing. Japanese exist from a melting pot between Yayoi Korean, Han Chinese, & Jomon natives. Tibetans exist from a melting pot between Han Chinese & Indo-Aryan Indian. And so on.
            Singapore is one example of modern melting pot nation in East Asia.

          • wes707

            Yes and Singapore was founded by the British and built upon its legal system; if not for that it would have never developed the way it is today. Same with HK. So you’re saying in Western countries white people walk around and point and stare at Asians and say “foreigner”? White-privileged… that’s such nonsense. We founded the country based on our traditions. It’s called legacy or path dependence; if America was founded on Chinese tradition, no one outside of the Chinese race would be able to become a citizen. And who’s the U.S. Ambassador to China, the Secretary of Energy, and even the President of the country today? Yeah, it’s completely not a metaling pot… you’re hopeless.

          • Reila90

            There’s no legacy or path dependence. America build by expansionism, imperialism & natives blood. Just like any other western imperialist who sailed halfway around the globe to roamed over and grabbed continent for free. You can’t justify nation’s society have no racism just because your president happen to be half black.

            I’m not sure with your questions. It’s not even relevant to my point. My point is Asian in American society get racism, stereotyped, and othered as much as non-Asian live in Asian society. I think you miscomprehend my comment a lot.

          • wes707

            I never said that U.S. history was pleasant. Yes, we were imperialists and did lots of horrible things, including enslaving people and even genocide. Most of human history is barbarous. The difference is that we learn about it in school when we’re young instead of imposing historical amnesia on the populous like in China. Now let’s hear you admit that Mao Zedong was a horrible person for killing 30 million people during the Great Leap Forward and that Deng Xiaoping is awful for what happened in 1989.

            My questions make a lot of sense actually. Why do so many Chinese people want to move to the US and/or have their children educated here if it’s such a racist place. No one is forcing them. No one forced Xi Jinping to send his daughter here; I’m sure he could have gotten her into Beida. As a father why would he subject her to those racist Americans?

            And the U.S. Ambassador to China, the Secretary of Energy, Mayor of San Francisco, etc. are of Chinese descent. Instead of holding to ideological lines, the world makes progress when we openly talk about issues and have free unrestricted debates.

          • Jesus

            actually u 2 r talking about bullshit. All history, every country in the world has been built on imperialism and genocide. And, you don’t need to go back to mao, just read the whole chinese history. China wasn’t always that big, and just not to mention how han people conquered xinjiang….this so-called han race isn’t a race at all and their ethnic classifications comes from the soviet union.

          • wes707

            That’s why I said “most of human history is barbarous.” I don’t disagree with you at all. I’m just trying to make her admit some negative things about China.

          • jesus

            that could be harder to start an ice-cream business in siberia….

            some chinese, most of them actually, as soon as they talk with a westerner they shut down their brain and start barking cheap propaganda stuff, call it educational systen… The funny part is that they even dont have a clue about their own history and culture..

          • dim mak

            tl;dr

            my white feminist friend said only whites can be racist, what say you to that?

            schopenhauer also sucks a wide variety of dicks

          • mr.wiener

            Only whites can be racists? That’s discrimination!!

          • Reila90

            You should be aware there’s a difference between personal racism and institutional racism. Human immigration it’s a part institutional rights. China and other east Asian countries do accept immigrants as well. Institutional racism is hardly exist today in many nations. But personal racism still do exist. And this thread is a part of personal racism not institutional racism. You need to get over it just like any minorities in western nations. Because they endure personal racism too. Hope you understand this.

          • wes707

            East Asian nations allow people of other races to immigrate (and take citizenship) to their countries? I would love to see you produce some evidence, not including diaspora populations moving back to their ethnic countries. How many Africans in China have Chinese citizenship? Or other non-Asians groups? You’re seriously deluded. Why don’t you ever answer any of my question? Why did Xi Jinping send his daughter to the U.S. for university?

          • Reila90

            Just ask Xi Jinping or his daughter by yourself. I can’t speak for them. You already out of topic, buddy. Are you assuming i’m Chinese? uh no. I answered your question before. It’s a part of institutional rights. We have European students, Indian students, Arab students, and many more in here across east Asia.
            Yes as student. Hence i knew how bad racism in American society.

          • wes707

            Yes they come only as students; they could never become citizens because of institutional racism in East Asia. Thanks for proving my point. And if you’re not Chinese, then admit that Mao killed 30 million people during the Great Leap Forward.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

          • Reila90

            So why there’s a lot white people in Shanghai? Why there’s a lot south Asian workers in Hong Kong? illegal? no. They’re citizens. You’re the one who seriously deluded here.

          • wes707

            They’re not citizens of the PRC. If you have a visa that does not make you a national of the country. God you’re dumb.

          • Reila90

            Off course NOT all of immigrants are citizens. But ones with citizenship still do exist. You implying the word “NEVER”. Like it’s zero existence. Now you only make yourself dumb. Offend anyone who disagree with you make yourself feel better eh? Sorry but you still can’t disapprove my main opinion about racism in America media. Since you already out of topic, there’s no reason to debate here.

          • wes707

            Then show me evidence of at least 100 non-Asians who have obtained PRC citizenship?

          • linette lee

            Under Hong kong law, anyone can become citizen thru marriages. There are plenty of foreign wives from vietnam, philippines, thailand and they marry hong kong men to get hk resident. After living in Hk for 7 years they become hk citizens. Their mixed kids born in Hong kong are Hk citizens and they are viet/chinese or fino/chinese or thai/chinese hongkese. But most of the foreign brides are from mainland china so their hk born kids are chinese hkese also. Yet there are many indian hongkese and some aussie or UK hongkese.

            Hongkese are just like Americans, comes in different race and colors. Hong kong also has anti racial discimination law under hk gov’t.

          • Johnny Dubai

            Since when is Hong Kong anything like China or a representative of the region. You do know their law system is not even a product of mainland Chinese political or ethical thought right? And you’re using it as an example? These ideas were implanted by the British! Comparable to China at all? I think not. Special case? Yes indeed. *Cough. S.A.R. *cough*. And The hk people are slowly losing their rights with more and more infusion from Beijing. Mostly ones dealing with expression tho.

          • Germandude

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship

            “Citizenship denotes the link between a person and a state or an association of states. It is normally synonymous with the term nationalityalthough the latter term may also refer to ethnic connotations. Possession of citizenship is normally associated with the right to work and live in a country and to participate in political life. A person who does not have citizenship in any state is said to be stateless.

            Nationality is often used as a synonym for citizenship – notably in international law – although the term is sometimes understood as denoting a person’s membership of a nation.”

            White people are in Shanghai (or anywhere else in China) because of Z or F visas. Here’s a quick view: http://www.enjoy-sh.biz/en/Visa.asp

            Since you don’t even get the basic terms right, there is no sense in discussing this further with you.

          • Reila90

            Oh preach. What else? grammar? You miss the point of my discussion with wes707.
            “There is no sense in discussing this further with you”
            Glad you stated that.

          • Germandude

            “Oh preach. What else? grammar? You miss the point of my discussion with wes707.”

            I am not a native English speaker and wouldn’t consider my English being good enough to point out any grammar mistakes, you or anybody else is making. Besides that, I don’t feel the need of doing so.

            I don’t miss the point of your discussion with wes707. In fact, I understand wes707′s points quite completely.

            The problem is that you seem to have no clue about what you are talking about which is shown by your confusion about citizenship and nationality, the base for discussing the topic and the funny statement of, I quote you:

            “The analogy of America as a melting pot is absolute crap. Because it’s attempting to force people of color to assimilate to a White-privileged culture and othering them.”

            Now I am not a big fan of the US politics but your statement is utter crap. To make it simple: When in Rome, do like the Romans do”. This goes for any country in the world. And it’s also applicable for China. I am living in China, knowing about the rights that I don’t have here. However, I chose to stay part of my life here. America set rules under which everybody is welcome to join and participate. Just like China, with the difference that a foreigner doesn’t have the chance to ever call himself Chinese.
            Now look at Europe, where the majority of central European countries are trying this “laissez-faire” system with accomodating to each and every minority immigrating to the countries. That’s how you really fuck things up.

          • Reila90

            …Ok then.

          • linette lee

            I am chinese and I live in USA. There is plenty of “personal racism” here in USA. Locals discriminate against new immigrants. New immigrants discriminate against locals. Goes both ways. Or just discrimination due to different culture or race. It exist here in USA.
            Racism exist in every countries around the world. Not just in China or USA. The only difference is countries like USA their gov’t promote racial diversity and zero tolerance for discrimination. So under the gov’t law individual are protected against racism and discrimination. Which is a good thing.

          • Dr Sun

            So how many immigrants to China now are Citizens of China ?

            Just fill in the 2011 missing figures below for us,from a official Government source please.

            2011:

            In the USA – 694,193 foreigners naturalized to become U.S citizens, of which 32,864 originally were Chinese.
            http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/natz_fr_2011.pdf

            In China – _____ foreigners naturalized to become Chinese citizens, of which _______ originally were American.

          • Dr Sun

            What !! no figures to back up your argument Relia90 ?

          • Guest

            Forget about him. You often have discussions with white people about what racism is, and they constantly bring up the idea that racism simply exists in individual instances when someone points at you and says “hey, you’re different!”

            Whites in the U.S. are privileged to the point where they think that’s the worst instance of racism that occurs.

          • dave

            “Do you know what the Chinese would say if I were able to get Chinese citizenship and then complain that they weren’t bending over backwards to help me fit in? They would tell me to get the fuck out of their country.”

            I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:

            In America, we call Asians living there “Asian-Americans.”
            In China, they call Americans living here “foreigners.”

            That says a lot about “problems with integration.”

    • Probotector

      Because two wrongs don’t make a right.

      • rusty

        So close ><

    • dave

      Why do you think that China is “despised?”

      Stop with the “oh, we’re being humiliated!” act. I’m an American. You want to know, honestly, what average Americans think of China?

      Not much. They don’t know about China, and they don’t care. America is no where near as obsessed with China as Chinese seem to be with America.

      They think:

      1) It’s where all our factory jobs went
      2) It’s dirty, poluted.
      3) They ride a lot of bicycles there, right?

      • donkeykong

        Correct.
        99% of the time the Western media says nothing about China because Western people just are not that interested in China.

      • Reila90

        Re-read my comment. You are out of topic.

    • Hongwu emperor

      The best way of dealing with savages is simply ignoring them. if everything fails, waaaar!! ok, war aside, rational conversation can work as a last resort.

      • donkeykong

        Yes, this is the reason that the Western media often ignores China.

  • Dr Sun

    The only thing the author got right was the length of my schlong.

    “the seven inches below a laowai’s crotch”

    • Probotector

      Only seven inches?

      • Dr Sun

        Yeah, that’s what the women say to, but their wide eyed ?

  • anony

    somebody is butthurt :(((((((((((

  • Junk1

    “He will first gaze at the girl, first seducing with his eyes, and this gazing will be one of infatuation and admiration, making you feel as if you’ve suddenly become the most beautiful woman. Then he will gently touch your arm, whisper flattering words in your ears, and at the same time blow in your ear, arousing a girl’s lust. Here, many girls will find it difficult to control themselves. Facing a romantic, wealthy, tasteful, deep, sweet man, who wouldn’t be moved/tempted?”

    The guy is clearly a faggot, this is one long lament to the fact that he isn’t getting his salad tossed by a Lao Wei.

    “who wouldn’t be moved/tempted?”

    and the sad thing, really, is that so many Chinese are unable to critically evaluate what they read and just have to assimilate this shit as fact into their dull ‘oh so superior’ mind-set

    • SuperHappyCow

      whats a faggert

      • Junk1

        faggert is an illiterate spelling of faggot.

        • SuperHappyCow

          :> cand i shotted poop into your butt?

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