Newborn Chinese Baby ‘Roasted’ to Death in Hospital Incubator

A newborn baby suspected death due to high temperature in incubator.

From NetEase:

Internet Exposes Fujian Quanzhou Infant Roasted to Death in Incubator

According to CCTV’s weibo: Fujian Quanzhou Newborn Infant’s Cause of Death Suspected to be Excessive Temperature in Incubator. Yesterday, Quanzhou citizen Ye Yilong received the sad news of the death of his ten-day-old baby. According to Ye Yilong’s family, because of improper handling by the hospital, the temperature of the incubator was too high and the child was roasted to death. Corresponding photos were provided at the same time. But according to Quanzhou Children’s Hospital, the child died of infections. Currently, Quanzhou health authorities have launched an investigation. (CCTV reporter: Wang Chunxiao)

On July 18, a Weibo netizen posted “Newborn infant placed in incubator, roasted to death by overly high temperature” Quack doctors are in power at Quanzhou Children’s Hospital and treat human lives as no more than grass [have scant/no regard for human lives] and toasted a healthy baby to death overnight! The hospital side shirked responsibility. Doctors and nurses were all hidden from people, even the surveillance video had been deleted. What was “darker” was that the TV station said they dared not report the news. The child was so little, he didn’t even have time to experience the beauty of this world!

A newborn infant in an incubator with high temperature, he was roasted to death when he was alive.

According to a blogger who goes by the name “可爱的腰间盘啊” on Weibo: “Now the hospital is keeping the family members [of the dead infant] inside the hospital and aren’t letting them out. This is the photo my aunt sent me! Checking the milk feeding records, prior to [July] 16, only on the 11th was there a single feeding. Likewise, clearly as a result of the incubator’s temperature being too high, there’s no undamaged flesh on the baby’s back at all. She was only 12 days old, she didn’t even know anything! Quanzhou Children’s Hospital, don’t think that just because the surveillance video is now gone, the records are now gone, the medical records have now been altered, and the doctors and nurses have run away that you are able to “cover the sky with one hand” [hide the truth from the masses]. Don’t think that just because you are a public hospital that reporters dare not investigate, that you can defy every law and regulation. I will call every hotline that I can call. Last Sunday I just talked with the child’s mother on the phone and she said that [her baby] could have been released from the hospital on that day, but the hospital claimed [the baby] caught a cold and couldn’t leave the hospital. Early in the morning on Wednesday, a call from the hospital informed them that the child was dying. During those two and three days, the hospital deleted all they could delete, altered all that they could alter, and when they family was rushing to the hospital, it put on a show with a few rounds of CPR before announcing her death. Because I was not there at the scene, I can only post what I know. The photos can tell everything clearly!”

This Southern Metropolis Daily reporter learned from the Quanzhou City Health Bureau Office that yesterday [July 17] morning, the bureau had sent relevant leaders and experts to the hospital to investigate this incident, the details of which must be reported to superiors step-by-step (before they can be released to the public). Previously, netizen “@可爱的腰间盘啊” exposed that the deceased is his relative’s child, and that Quanzhou Children’s Hospital had refused to discharge the baby from the hospital claiming the baby had a cold.

Related News:

Health Bureau Claims Infant’s Cause of Death Unable to be Determined, Currently Consulting with Family on Autopsy

Chengdu.cn July 18 report: On the morning of July 18, reporters of Chengdu.cn received a tip claiming that in Fujian Quanzhou, a 12-day-old newborn baby at the Quanzhou Children’s Hospital was roasted to death due to excessive heat in an incubator.

This afternoon [July 18], the Quanzhou Health Bureau and the Quanzhou Children’s Hospital responded successively to reporters of Chengdu.cn that the hospital was consulting with family members of the deceased about whether an autopsy was to be done to the dead baby. Pictures obtained by reporters show what appears to be large burns on the deceased baby’s back, with the skin having come off. The person who exposed this information claims the baby died on the afternoon of [July] 17 at Quanzhou Children’s Hospital. From birth to death, only 12 days had passed.

Subsequently, reporters contacted the Medical Administration Department of the Quanzhou Health Bureau. A staff member from the department on condition of anonymity told Chengdu.cn reporters that from yesterday [July 17] afternoon to this morning [July 18] at 9am, staff members of the Health Bureau have been in consultation with the baby’s family, hoping to conduct a medical accident determination or autopsy, but have not yet obtained the family’s permission. After the infant’s death, the body was not placed in the morgue, already affecting standard medical procedure. The staff member also said that until the medical evaluation results or autopsy report comes out, the baby’s cause of death cannot be determined. He says the patients in the hospital’s burn department or the condition of the skin of certain patients with herpes may be even worse than the baby’s skin condition in the photo.

A staff member from Quanzhou Children’s Hospital office told reporters that the hospital couldn’t make a judgment on the baby’s death right now and have already petitioned higher departments for a medical accident determination, with an explanation of the incident expected to be made public by the Health Bureau at 9am tomorrow [July 19] morning. Reporters called the dead baby’s grandfather, but nobody ever answered the phone. Quanzhou City Health Bureau chief Cai Lijing said she was at a meeting and rejected our interview.

But according to the latest reports from CCTV, Quanzhou Children’s Hospital officials claim the child had died due to infection.

Reporters of this article will continue to pay close attention to the incident’s development.

a newborn baby suspected death due to high temperature in incubator.

Comments from NetEase:

[网易江苏省南通市网友] 依旧惘然:

God damn hospital, the baby was roasted black. What kind of fucking incubator is it? It’s a  fucking oven.

[网易河南省洛阳市网友] 骑驴找猪猪:

fucking, many hospitals nowadays put some babies who don’t need intensive care into UICU, which is charged by the hour, with the average income per day being 1000 yuan. [The babies] are kept there for 10 to 15 days. Based on what I know, many newborns parents have encountered this kind of situation… If the child’s family doesn’t know anyone [in the hospital], they’ll only get slaughtered/conned, it is completely opaque [lacking transparency]…

网易河北省邢台市网友 ip:218.11.*.*:

Folks:
Wake up. I am a pediatrician, please open your eyes wide and see:
1. Incubators have max temperature limits, and the highest temperature is 40℃, so there is absolutely no way the baby was baked to death.
2. Look at the state of the baby’s dead body, it’s very likely that she got septicemia, DIC. Of course, for this situation to happen tot he baby while it was in the hospital for over 10 days, we can’t rule out the possibility of a nosocomial infection, which can cause the baby’s death within a hours. What more, nosocomial infections are unavoidable. NICU hospital infections are controlled to under 10%, and the rates of of hospital infections in China is similar to that in western countries, or even lower. Maybe it has something to do with the excessive use of antibiotics in China. Ultimately, the reason is related to individual physique. Some people are simply more susceptible to pathogens, which is why some people never get sick, but you get sick.

3. With the parents so crazy, do you think the doctors and nurses are stupid? Let’s first put aside who is right or who is wrong, who at the scene wouldn’t be heavily beaten by the family? And what more, [it could be that] after being beaten, [it turns out] they were wrongly beaten, so might as well first flee [from getting beaten].
4. The media and the general public, stop making a fuss, [because] ultimately it is you will be the ones who lose!!! At least, this Quanzhou hospital will not have people taking care of newborns who needs to be treated right now, not because the doctors don’t want to, but because they have no energy to do so, as most of their energy will be spent dealing with this incident. Besides, with the press blindly making an uproar about it, government leaders won’t be happy, and they’ll be rectified. I think the other doctors in their department can take a little break.
5. Nowadays, children having to wait 2-3 hours to see a doctor in Beijing is considered normal. Some can’t even get their turns to see a doctor after waiting overnight. Nowadays what is particularly serious is that some children with pneumonia, sepsis etc. who should stay in the hospital can’t be hospitalized. The more serious and complicated the illness of a child, the more impossible it is for a hospital to receive him. The reason is very simple, under this kind of environment, no hospital is willing to bring trouble to themselves.

6. The pediatrics department is not profitable in this economic society. Pediatricians are paid the least among all physicians, because few people choose this career, and it is also the most tiring job, while the pediatrics department is very risky. After this many years of so-called public hospitals being responsible for independently managing profit and loss, all hospitals have chosen to cut back on pediatrics. Now the problems are already showing.
7. I have been a doctor for 8 years, graduated from Beijing University of Medicine. At the time, only the top students could study medicine, but as families who have children taking the gaokao college entrance exams might have noticed that, firstly, very few people want to study medicine, and secondly, there are fewer and fewer medical students, [universities] have to “select generals out of dwarves” [make do with what students they have], which means the quality [of the doctors coming out] probably isn’t assured. So far, half of my classmates have switched jobs and are no longer working in the clinical field, quite a few of them could have become famous doctors in the future, which is quite a pity. But it doesn’t matter, excellent people are also excellent in other professions. This is actually a loss for patients.
8. I don’t know if you guys have ever encountered difficulties in seeing a doctor. Perhaps some people haven’t had this kind of experience. But with you people being so pushy towards doctors, will it have to come to there not being any doctors to see you when you’re sick before you will reflect on yourselves?

网易广东省佛山市手机网友 ip: 112.96.*.*: (responding to above)

How much did he pay you? There are no waves without wind…. wu mao

网易日本网友 [xiaoxiaomm3] : (responding to “ip:218.11.*.*”)

What the first floor [网易河北省邢台市网友] said sounded clear and logical. Do you dare tell us which hospital you are at?

网易山东省青岛市手机网友 [flyman0086]: (responding to “ip:218.11.*.*”)

You will have children, too. What you said sounded reasonable, but why does the doctor refuse to produce the medical records to prove it?

网易浙江省杭州市手机网友 [子虚乌有的乌有之乡]: (responding to above)

Today’s reporters just want to attract eyeballs. “Incubator roasts baby”, such fucking sensational. You really think it’s an oven? No incubators can cause burn injuries. The power [of incubators] is too far off.

网易江西省南昌市网友 [living_wei]: (responding to “ip:218.11.*.*”)

According to the first floor, the highest temperature 40℃ can’t burn people to death??? Dehydration alone can kill you. With temperatures so high now, why are people still using incubators??? Asking for a scientific explanation…

网易浙江省台州市网友 [wuhaowuhao12] :(responding to above)

To make money. Incubators are charged by the hour.

网易上海市手机网友 ip:180.171.*.* :

With hospitals these days, I too am at a loss for words. Because of my cousin’s irregular menstrual periods, I accompanied her to the hospital to get it checked. The doctor didn’t even check her before directly asking, “keep it or have an abortion?” which freaked my sister out. Completely speechless, clearly it was just an endocrine disorder.

网易广东省东莞市手机网友 ip:113.80.*.* :

The hospital has no virtue. The incubator had a problem. No matter what, a healthy baby is gone, which means there’s a problem.

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  • Mihel

    Strange, premature babies born in summer months aren’t usually put in incubators.

    • Yup

      And babies don’t usually die in incubators like this very often.

      • biggj

        They do in chinese made ones.

        • Jobjed

          Wrong. Babies don’t USUALLY die in incubators in China, which was what he said. He didn’t say babies don’t die AT ALL in incubators in China.

          • biggj

            How do you know? If this baby was not burned to shit they would have gotten away with it. They could be dying everyday for all we know.

          • Jobjed

            Talking about conspiracies, are you one of those who believe 9/11 was an inside job, moon landings were fake and the CCP harvests live human organs from dissidents?

          • biggj

            I’m just saying chinese are not the best at reporting things when they go wrong or it’s their fault.

          • Jobjed

            *Joke* Yep, a burnt baby is a great subject for a joke. Very tasteful indeed.

          • Now now jobby, don’t go calling him a tinfoil hat before you educate yourself and display what a gulping zombie you are. By bringing 9/11 on this and mixing it with what people saw as a good thing is an idiotic thing to do.
            Go read some books on american politics, economics and foreign relations you big bone head.

            http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/070906insidejob.htm

            http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architects_%26_Engineers_for_9/11_Truth

    • TJDubs

      This may be a stretch, but might it be related to the Chinese medicinal obsession with heat? Always drink boiling water (drinking cold water is worse for the body than smoking two packs a day), never use the AC (it causes diarrhea), always use super thick blankets (otherwise you could die in your sleep). It may seem logical, given the heat obsession, that any amount of coldness would make this baby’s condition worse, so keep him at 40 C, dehydration be damned.

      • radbab

        lol. nicely observed. However this is when the magic..err Chinese medicine comes into play. There’s “hot” and “cold”, however something hot can also be considered “cold” – like boiling crab stew. It really gets complicated and I wouldn’t be surprised if the average zhou too gets confused by all this. Pretend you’ll never understand China, lean back and let them do their thing if it makes them feel better.

      • Mihel

        Yeah, I’ve hear about the hot/cold thing of traditional medicine, like you must keep your feet covered because the cold enters the body though the feet etc.

        Idk, simple remedies might even work better than medicines at times, but when it comes to newborn babies I am truly stupefied that doctors choose to take risks following traditional medicine over, you know, things actually approved by international medical community…

        On a side note, AC -can- be the cause of some airborne diseases, but 99% of the times is because of poor maintenace of the filters.

  • Stalin

    In china, baby eat you!

    • This Russian reversal joke is not funny because it’s N/A. Go do it on RussianSlam.

      • mr.wiener

        Yup.

  • Did I see some netizen evaluating this as a economic problem aside from proper training of people in natal nurses?

    I think 1: The baby is already in bad shape if they had to stay in the hospital for more than 2 days (3days for c sections) and typically cannot be considered “healthy” as the article tried to twist it. Did it sound like the parent stayed home until the hospital calls instead of being with the baby observantly? That’s stupid even if work is so important.
    2: The hospital fxked up. They for one didn’t treat or know how to treat assuming if the baby got “roasted” is true. Cold baby? make the incubater hotter. A sick babys immune sys is weak and therefore likely to be overcome by infections. How could they not have determined the cause by now?
    Very obvious human negligence to care and be honest about it.
    Had they said hey your baby is sick and we did everything we could but…that would have at least be less shady and suspicious regardless of medical skills. Having Baffoons run a hospital, it doesn’t matter if you have video surveillance, its more of a sign to scream shitheads are here.

    So…3: It is both parties fault + unhealthy birth etc.

    One less population growth.

    • Cv

      This has happened before in many countries babies die in these things.
      So its not impossible like that nurse said above it can happened.
      So i agree with you.

      • mr.wiener

        Sources? [not wanting to doubt you, but it’d be nice to know]

        • biggj

          I have never heard of them dying because the machine fuck up, But in war torn cities babies will die in them because they get left in them. No one comes and takes them out, but it’s not a faulty incubator.

      • No, no, you’re thinking of what we call “microwaves”.

    • mr.wiener

      This leave us with three different stories, none of them good or an intertwining of the stories which means everyone is f*cked.
      Option 1. The Hospital screwed the pooch something awful, the baby was roasted. they tried to cover it up.
      Option 2. The media is trying to roast the hospital on hearsay and inuendo after the tragic death of the child.
      Option 3. Child dies , the hospital covers things up on pure reflex. the media decides not to let the truth get in the way of a good story, [roasted baby makes a sexy headline] . Truth is a relative and undervalued commodity in China.
      I visited my mate, his wife and new baby in hospital this morning, mum and baby doing fine and photogenic as all hell….. In the light of that this is a horrible tragedy and sickening as I suspect the media are try to use what’s left of the roast to make soup.

      • I was just talking about baby soup a couple days ago with mighty. see HK movie Dumpling.

    • Repatriated

      Bottom line: Chinese doctors need more than 2 years of schooling. In the US, a doctor’s education ranges about 10-12 years with residencies etc. Nothing wrong with “specializing” at that point, but China really has no clue what a general practitioner is. All doctors in China only specialize….and leave a lot of simple diagnosis missed for that reason.

  • biggj

    Holy shit, they seem to be going though a lot of trouble to cover this up. Deleted video, missing nurses and so on.And why just lay this baby on a table in what looks like a police station or a hospital reception or something so everyone can walk by and take pictures?…..for fuck sakes. China is fucking unbelievable. It’s one thing for this to happen but to cover it up too? Hurry everyone, lets all bring our families to china and live the Chinese dream. Yeah fucking right. Like the last article, is this one of the perks to come here and live? Shitty health care, worlds worse pollution, poison everything. Anyone who still wants to go there and live has to be desperate. That’s the only way I can see it.

    • That’s why you don’t let these dumbasses care for your baby and maybe the mom could educate herself in birth care??? more than 3 days in the hospital?? shouldnt she question that if she truly cares or shes just going to let someone else take care of it just like how they raise and educate thier children? the power of ignorsnce and uncare.

      • biggj

        Well if they say your baby is sick you would think they should know what they are talking about. i can’t lay blame on the parent. Like im sure she’s not thinking ” I wonder if I leave my baby at the hospital it will get cooked in an incubator” You would think though if you lived in china for your whole life you would know that hospitals are bullshit there. Only took me 1 trip to the doctor there to figure that out. But I don’t think the parents knew anything like this would happen.

        • Of course shes not thinking thatttttt. shes not thinking at all. after many unprofessional news about hospitals and lots of corruption everywhere, they will still walk eith their eyes close bc they dont think it affects them. their attention spans are like goldfish.

    • mr.wiener

      Thank god I’m in Taiwan, for all it’s faults, China lite, China done right.

      • don mario

        i dont like the china lite tag people give taiwan. taiwan is the real deal! its more authentic. the real china is like the evil twin.

        • Kai

          Heh, people do think of Taiwan as China without the tragedy of communism and the Cultural Revolution and thus more “authentic” with its “traditional” characters and slightly better preserved “traditions”, but I think a big part of “China” is just how big and diverse it is, something that isn’t adequately reflected by the self-selected regional, political, and economic subset that managed to flee to Taiwan, and has more or less evolved into its own splinter identity after all these years. Taiwan is an aspect of the “real” China, but not the “real China”. China is for better or worse what it is, and everything it has gone through.

          • don mario

            i am not arguing against that. the mainland is the real china whether it has had it culture gutted or otherwise. i am just saying that the china lite tag is misleading. taiwan a more pleasant place to live but its not less chinese.
            where i am living now in taipei has the most chinesey feeling of any the places i have lived in. more so than i was led to believe it would. to me it is more authentic, so i am offering my opinion, but i know thats subjective.

          • Kai

            Heh, this is just a big ball of semantics. I understand what you mean about your finding “lite” misleading just like you probably understand what people mean by “lite”, just like how you’ll probably understand what I mean by “China/Chinese”. These words can all be interpreted in different ways depending on what we’re thinking of when using them. They refer to a certain notion of “lite” or “China” that may not be the first thing others think of when hearing them, that’s all.

            For example, if we define how life is in China as “Chinese”, then couldn’t we say life in Taiwan is indeed less “Chinese”? That’s why its semantics, but as long as we understand what each other is referring to, it’s all good. Yeah, it’s all subjective. We understand each other.

          • mr.wiener

            I’m still going to send you a T-shirt with a map of Taiwan on the front and the caption across the middle ‘CHINA LITE”……or maybe ‘LIN-DEPENDENCE” but that is a bit dated now.

          • DavidisDawei

            Wiener
            You should do it…
            “China Lite” is a great name!

          • mr.wiener

            Beats the hell out of “Chinese Taipei”

      • Repatriated

        Ha. Thank god I’m home in the USA after 8 years in China. I can’t now even say I bought the T-shirt…even though I did. It fell apart in the first washing….

        • Aleister Crowley

          8 years in China means you must have had some love for the place yes? We all have our grumbles, but keeping coming back here to post about the place, well, why don’t you let it go and move on? It seems once expats leave China, they still have to get to it on their computers—all good fun!!!

      • I like China and Taiwan both, but I would choose Taiwan any day. Whenever people ask me how it is, I say “It’s China without all of the bullshit”.

    • radbab

      sounds nice. China is like a circus. It’s awesome, entertaining and magical the first time you visit, and it keeps being awesome for quite a while while you live there. But eventually the clown act gets old and you wonder if the cage that holds the dangerous animals is really as sturdy as it looks. But yet you will still end up missing the place when you eventually leave.

      • asdf

        Nough said. Leaving SH after 3 years next month.

      • biggj

        Yeah, lol except for missing it part. It’s alright though, I was always on the fence about china. I get bored in china, that was my thing. It the one place I go to that gets old really fast. When I first came to china like you said it was great, it was my first taste of asia. Everything was new and crazy. But if you go to other places like Thailand and Philippines, japan even India china can’t keep up with these places for having a good time. But every time I come back to china it feels new for about 48 hours. Now it’s just old to me. I have to come every fucking year so it not great to me anymore. I learned my lesson though, when I come I only stay for a week or so and visit my wifes family and then take off to Japan for the rest of the time..hahah leave her ass there.lol

  • Ahaha, first pic, is that a medical professional evaluating the damage?? oh wait …nevermind since likely hood of correct analysis is nill.

  • Try not to be “gore” but “medical”: even on wikipedia there is a picture of baby with infection… and seems the same… Surely this not means that chinese hospitals are heaven, but i think people has to believe doctors (and the comment above from the chiense doctor is quite clear)

  • Lord_Helmet

    “Quan Zhou Roasted Infant” mmmmmmm sounds like a new special dish. Chinese food is so dericious!

    • Lin Cai

      EEWWWW…. sounds like ur cannibal

    • Germandude

      Congratulations! You scored a 10/10 and you are an inside tip for the elections to “Most retarded posts on chinaSMACK, like in ever”.

      • Lord_Helmet

        Alright take it easy Franz. It was an off colored joke, maybe too soon but it was just in reference to the infant soup story a couple years back.

        • Germandude

          Ok, but you gotta admit that it was one on the very low-end.

          • Lord_Helmet

            Agreed.

  • Gordon Gogodancer

    Never ever let your life and the life of those you care about in the hands of anybody else but yourself, especially when the people who’s hands your life might be in are idiots lacking basic common sense.

  • lonetrey / Dan

    What the hell. Don;t these things have max temperature settings? It feels like it would be incredibly stupid to have built a machine that could even go that high in heat, so I get the feeling that the baby wasn’t roasted by an incubator….

    Media probably caught the hospital trying to do damage control and things escalated quickly.

  • Cervello

    Parents accept compensation over baby’s death in incubator.

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/797912.shtml

    Case Closed

    • biggj

      Yep, 1000rmb, bag of rice and a second hand Ebike.

    • BlackSugarDaddy

      Cantonese swarming in, time to munch !

    • TJDubs

      I bet this “compensation” was an agreement by the parents not to file any complaints/petitions, talk to any media, post on social media, or generally acknowledge that this thing happened EVER (especially the cover-up). In exchange, the party thugs WON’T break every bone in the parents’ bodies with a piece of rebar, officially rule it a murder-suicide, then cremate the bodies before an autopsy can be completed.

  • vonskippy

    So Sad – China can’t even steal the design of an infant incubator without cutting corners and f**king it up (it’s called max temperature cutoff – not something you really want to eliminate in your effort to cut cost). Next time buy the real thing – not some half-assed chinese knock-off.

    • Kai

      You should probably make sure this is an incident of a Chinese incubator poorly built off stolen foreign designs before making petty prejudicial comments. As others have posted, turns out there was nothing wrong with the incubator at all.

      • vonskippy

        How do you figure? If the infant was “roasted to death” then the incubator did it. In Europe and the States, there are at least 3 separate fail safe thermostats (one monitors the temperature of the device, one monitors the time the heater is turned on, and the most important one – it monitors the temperature of the infant – if any exceed very safe limits, the unit is turned off and an alarm sounds) that would prevent that from happening. I stick to my first statement, the Chinese incubator was poorly designed or manufactured or maintained – and the hospital staff are HUGELY negligent for not monitoring the infant more closely.

        • Kai

          It seems I’m going by more information on this story than you are. See Cervello’s comment for example (it’s an already English report).

          My point is that based on the information currently out, assuming the incubator was specifically made in China and from stolen foreign IP speaks more to your feelings about Chinese IP theft than they reflect the information available about this story. Right?

          With regards to negligence from the hospital staff, that may be the case until we get more details about whether that is referring to staff failing to monitor the baby’s health or handling the fallout poorly.

          • biggj

            Well thing is when you disclose information and tamper with evidence and all kind of other shit then you open yourself to all kinds of theories about what happened. If he thinks it was half-assed chinese made incubator, Who’s to say he is wrong? could be. Maybe the baby was abducted by alians and giving a medicine what backfired. Who knows. lol. If the facts are laid out and truth is told then we can say vonskippy guys comment is bullshit. But until then that’s just his theory, could be right could be wrong. And even when they do come out with a “explanation” of what happened, I won’t believe it anyway, because they where hiding something from the beginning.

          • Kai

            It isn’t clear that the hospital tampered with evidence. That seems to be hearsay or speculation from the victims or public.

            I mentioned this in another comment somewhere around here that Chinese media stories, especially controversial ones, often seem to be a minefield of misinformation and hearsay, which can partially be attributed to authorities sometimes just being really bad at handling shit when it hits the fan.

            We can say vonskippy’s comment is just another part of the public speculation frenzy. Whereas other people jump to their prejudices against “money-grubbing” doctors, he’s jumped to his prejudices about “Chinese product quality” and “Chinese IP theft”. I think it’s worth pointing out how both of these instances say more about how the commenter thinks than it reflects the available information about the actual news story.

            The thing is, in this world, rarely if ever are the “facts” or “the truth” neatly and immediately laid out in news reporting, often because they aren’t ascertained yet. Therefore, it’s important to be mindful of when we’re jumping to conclusions and recognize how the conclusions we jump to reflect upon us.

            There is definitely a popular skepticism when it comes to whatever Chinese authorities or media say and we can definitely say it is their responsibility to earn credibility from the public. Still, I don’t think it is necessarily wise to categorically assume the worst. We only think the hospital was hiding something because the media reported that one side said so, and we want to think so because we’re biased against the authorities, because we want to believe something like this was someone’s fault. We’re operating on “guilty until proven innocent”, with the only real thing substantiating our assessment of guilt being our prejudices.

            The tendency to give credibility selectively and sometimes even contradictorily is all very human, I know, but just something to think about.

          • biggj

            Yeah, they do suck at handling PR when it come to things like this. When it comes to shit like this china is like the game “Clue”. You ever play that? It all just accuse everyone of the same thing the only difference in china no one can look in the murder envelope. And people who guess what is in the envelope get paid not to ask again. No one ever knows what happened. That’s why you get all this speculation.

            People are pretty gullible, all you need a respectable person to make a public statement of what happened. And if it believable, then most people will except that. China never does that, they just kind blatantly refuse to say something or it’s so fucking unbelievable no one in there right mind of believe it.Like right now, I read somewhere the parents where paid for incident. Now I bet this will be the last we hear of it. And everyone will go on with there lives.

            And sure vonskippy comment was just his own opinion and just pupic speculation. But so was this:

            On July 18, a Weibo
            netizen posted “Newborn infant placed in incubator, roasted to death by
            overly high temperature” Quack doctors are in power at Quanzhou
            Children’s Hospital and treat human lives as no more than grass [have
            scant/no regard for human lives] and toasted a healthy baby to death
            overnight! The hospital side shirked responsibility. Doctors and nurses
            were all hidden from people, even the surveillance video
            had been deleted. What was “darker” was that the TV station said they
            dared not report the news. The child was so little, he didn’t even have
            time to experience the beauty of this world!

            True or false you guys put it in article. Maybe this person is full of shit and has a vendetta against that hospital. I just say that because you tell that von guy to make sure that it was a incubator and not something else. Well how is he to know? Like if he made that comment hours after this happen on weibo and maybe it could be his comment in the article instead of the other one. ANd the info about the story is sketchy at best. I’m just saying I don;t think what he said could be placed in a right or wrong section. Same as the comment from weibo post.

            When the facts not told, only speculation remains. And it’s usually not the good that comes out. It’s always the worse thing possible. You can’t blame people for thinking the worse.

          • Kai

            Er, Bing didn’t “put” what you quoted in the article, it was in the article. You do understand by now that what we mostly do is translate reports originally published on the Chinese internet instead of writing our own reports, right? We didn’t put it in the article, it was part of it.

            What you quoted is also precisely why I previously said: “We only think the hospital was hiding something because the media reported that one side said so.”

            As is often the case everywhere, how a story breaks to the wider public is often an important part of the story itself, so I don’t think it was wrong for NetEase (and the original source Southern Metropolis Daily) to make that part of their reporting. In fact, I’d say it’s a good thing that they cite what information is from where. It gives people a trail to follow and corroborate. It’s transparency.

            I’ve also said that the person could be full of shit and have a vendetta against the hospital, but your equivocation here is faulty for one simple reason: That Chinese netizen was a primary source of alleged details for this becoming a national news story. vonskippy was not.

            Moreover, my response to vonskippy’s comment was that he seems to be exploiting this story to complain about Chinese manufacturing and IP theft, except he doesn’t actually have any information about the incubator being made in China, faulty, or the result of stolen IP. That’s a lot of assumptions to conflate into the story for a comment that isn’t really about the story but something else.

            There’s nothing inherently wrong with him not knowing more information about the story, especially information that came out subsequently. However, it was still unwise in my opinion for him to have made the assumptions he did.

            There’s a difference between a comment like “I wonder if this is because the incubator was faulty, perhaps because of cutting corners in manufacturing or poor IP theft” and “China can’t even steal the design of an infant incubator without cutting corners and f**king it up”. How does that not beg the question: “How do you even know it was a Chinese manufactured incubator where corners were cut and the design stolen?”

            That’s like me reading a news article about a baby dying in a car crash in Japan and saying: “See, that’s why you shouldn’t buy Japanese cars”. Like, are you serious?

            There are things that could be said about the original Chinese weibo post, but it is qualitatively different from what I’m remarking about vonskippy’s comment. The Chinese netizen is seen first as trying to draw attention to a tragedy and possible cover-up. Can the same be said of vonskippy?

            He read a story with two competing narratives (baby roasted in incubator and baby died of infection), chose one, made assumptions that the incubator malfunctioned, made assumptions that the incubator was made in China, and made assumptions that it was due to stolen designs and cut corners to cut costs to leave us with the wisdom of not buying half-assed Chinese knock-offs (http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm349283.htm).

            I don’t blame people for thinking the worst, nor did I blame vonskippy for not reading other reports that I have. I simply cautioned him against jumping to the conclusions he did and pointed out that other reports suggest the incubator was not at fault at all. Why dismiss more information in order to cling to a conclusion based on no information? It also isn’t exactly tasteful to exploit a tragedy to make criticisms about something that may entirely be irrelevant to that tragedy.

            it’s important to be mindful of when we’re jumping to conclusions and recognize how the conclusions we jump to reflect upon us.

          • biggj

            Actually, to be honest just as soon as I read the headline of the story the first thing to come to mind was a crappy chinese incubator. And I’m sure a lot people thought the same.

            That comment from the Chinese poster, well you never put it in there but it’s still just from a nameless, faceless person from what I can tell. It may have been the first comment but that does not make it right or wrong. Who knows if they knew them or not. The point is the who story is pretty much speculation. It’s all just “we heard from nurse” “people on the scene said” it’s all just bullshit. It’s not your guys fault. That’s how the story is, you have to present it as such. There is no one stepping up and talking or telling the story. Like”Dr. Wu who operated on the baby said…..” Something like that but a bit more trust is in it. In this story the only name use was “Quanzhou City Health Bureau chief Cai Lijing said she was at a meeting and rejected our interview.” pfff . This has nothing to do with chinasmack, you just are just telling it how it is. And thats cool. So all we are doing is speculating on speculations. That von guys comment was a bit crazy but I see no solid evidence to say it not true.Like you said though, how does he knows it chinese? And it not really about the story. He was just assuming and using his idea.
            It’s hard for me to explain in writing since i’m a bit buzzed but i’ll end it like this. I think I know how he was thinking…..Baby get roasted in an incubator…so it seems something was wrong with the incubator….and incubators has fails safes on them….and if the baby was burned then something went wrong with the fail safe or it had no fail safe. Now that lead him to believe it was a knock off or whatever.So Chinese made shit fails again. That’s whats I think he was thinking. Now if you read further it says the baby had an infection…then that changed the whole story. But still we don’t for sure know what happened. I think he just choose to comment on the incubator part of it. I think you just don’t like how he choose to explain it haha. Like fucking Chinese blah blah can’t do anything right blah.. I understand what you where you thinking. Anyhow, I do hear you though. But I think without facts, anything is fair game. Say anything you want until it’s proven false. You think that would give them more motive to let people know what happen then letting people draw their conclusions.

          • Kai

            Right, what you immediately thought of says a lot about what beliefs you have. What you think arguably has basis in a reputation that Chinese manufacturing has earned for itself.

            It still doesn’t change that assumptions were made, conclusions were jumped to.

            Re: Chinese Weibo post quoted in the Southern Metropolis Daily article above

            I believe they explicitly cited that Chinese netizen’s screen name in the subsequent paragraph. You only need to go to weibo.com and search for that username so I wouldn’t

            say “nameless, faceless person”.

            Re: “Right or wrong”

            I’m not saying the comment being the first report or the primary report that blew the story up publicly “makes it” right or wrong. I’m explaining the differences between that comment and vonskippy’s comment, because you were presenting them as equivalent.

            I don’t think the point of the story is that it is “pretty much speculation”. The article reports a story by presenting what is being said, by those involved in bringing the story to the public’s attention, and by the hospital and authorities involved. What the people who exposed the story said is more accurately described as allegations or hearsay than “speculation”. What vonskippy said is best described as a rant built on an assumption that isn’t even supported by the story he read, and even invalidated by other reports available.

            It’s entirely possible that what happened was exactly what vonskippy suggests: malfunctioning incubator due it being a Chinese incubator that was manufactured with corners cut based on a design stolen from foreigners. It is entirely possible that the other reports that say the incubator was fine and not the cause of death are all lies and part of a conspiracy to cover up what really happened.

            But if you’re going to operate at that level of skepticism, categorically discounting and dismissing media reports like that, why do you believe a baby died at all? Isn’t it possible that no baby died? That the original reports by the victims and netizens were all false and a conspiracy to defame the hospital?

            So at some point, you have to extend a measure of credibility to the information available and accessible, and you can only dismiss information if there is a persuasive, compelling reason to, and not just because it inconveniently invalidates a conclusion you built on an assumption, one that was itself unsupported by the initial information you had.

            I have no problem with speculation, but blind speculation, especially in the service of espousing a stereotypical prejudice, is objectionable. I objected by saying he should make sure the incubator was actually made in China, and pointed out that other reports cleared the incubator of blame. I don’t think this is an unreasonable response and contribution to the discussion, is it?

            I totally understand vonskippy’s thought-process. I’m not saying I don’t understand it and need someone to step me through it, I’m saying his thought-process and the comment that resulted from it “speaks more to [his] feelings about Chinese IP theft than they reflect the information available about this story.”

            Stop drinking and commenting on cS. It’s not good for your health. ;)

    • Chinese

      A spectacular level of hatred.

  • Dumbledore

    Cover up,, maybe but for fuck’s sake: Incubators can’t get to “roasting” degrees,, not even close, and there are nurses around constantly. They’d know immediately if an incubator was scorching hot. There’s something very wrong with this story, maybe they’re covering up a fire, or a malfunction in the base of the incubator, but there’s no way it turned into an oven and baked a baby black like it’s alleged.

    • dumbledore

      Oh, I’m not trying to defend the abysmal standards of medical care in this country, the seeming complete lack of care from doctors and nurses and the disgusting lust for money you always feel going inside. Blatant corruption, “missing” CCTV tapes, and all that.

  • Lin Cai

    OMG.. this is so sad… :(
    R.I.P little one,
    may you find your joyfulness and happiness life in heaven,
    and god bless you~~

  • Washington Bullets

    Probably an infection, not an old fashioned baby-roasting. I’m not sure why the cover-up though. Doctors and nurses probably wanted the video deleted so specific individuals aren’t identified to be held liable for the death. With trends in Chinese “justice” the associated healthcare professionals would probably get lynched by some angry mob or something.

    • Mihel

      I was thinking, maybe the fact people are letting this pass as a case of malfunction of the incubator would be so that the blame would only fall upon the single malfunctioning incubator and the nurse that had to control the baby in that specific frame of time, so culprit = machine + one stupid nurse.

      While if it were to be determined that the baby died because of an infection, the whole medical equip would be accused of not having performed their job correctly for -several- days; first because they let the baby get the infection in the first place, second because it took so long for them to find out, third because they were unable to cure it.

      • Tionia

        The incubators have a safety feature so a baby will not roast or bake to death!
        Overheating of equipment is watched carefully by microcontroller. If any of sensor shows temperature more than set pressure, microcontroller will cut off the transistor switch causing the relay to trip.

  • demboiz

    damn ,….incubator roasts baby???? seriously? incubators now have oast temperatures? nothing is clear yet but why dies the hospital have to delete records and videos? make no sense. I kinda easoned with the guy above with the l ongest comments but til the truth comes out ,the hosital has to provide an explanation

  • Repatriated

    Folks:

    Wake up. I am a pediatrician, please open your eyes wide and see:

    1. Incubators have max temperature limits, and the highest temperature
    is 40℃, so there is absolutely no way the baby was baked to death.

    And of course, nothing made in China has ever been known to fail, malfunction, or break…..

    • Germandude

      That’s what I was thinking as well. I give the hospital the benefit of a doubt and assume it was simply a malfunction. Until somebody proves that it was not.

      • Repatriated

        The problem is, that even with a malfunction, nobody noticed for a long time. Now it’s the just typical Chinese blame game until someone low enough on the totem pole is forced to take the blame….

        • Kai

          It’s starting to look like either the hospital did a piss poor job of PR or the seeming intuitiveness of one side’s story simply overwhelmed the hospital’s PR efforts.

          The way things are in China right now, it’s actually really damn hard to figure out if the “authorities” are lying/covering things up, if the victims/public are being hysterical, or the media is sensationalizing (often because they can only go by one side’s reports because the authorities aren’t doing a good job of handling PR).

        • Tionia

          Remember what you have heard is not 1st hand not not person was a Dr or even a nurse!
          The incubators have a safety feature so a baby will not roast or bake to death!
          Overheating of equipment is watched carefully by microcontroller. If any of sensor shows temperature more than set pressure, microcontroller will cut off the transistor switch causing the relay to trip.

    • Cauffiel

      They do have a remarkable record, don’t they.

    • Ning

      I wonder why the baby was put into the incubator in the first place and continued to stay there for 12 days. In the “before” picture where an adult thumb is seen next to her ear she looks like a full-term, at least 2 kg and normal. Of course there could be several medical reasons unmentioned in the article but it seems more plausible that the hospital just wanted to milk the family by providing unneccessary, expensive services. I know from experience it happens in other countries, our toddler got a small cut on her hand and since we have full insurance the pediatric clinic sewed three tiny stiches in surgery room.

      Another thing I find pretty unbeliavable is how the dead baby’s family didn’t notice anything wrong with her. In Europe premies spend as much time as possible with their parents and in skin-contact with the mother and there’s lots of support to find if lactation doesn’t start normally. Now, in this case it seems that feeding was done by nurses and according to records she didn’t even receive a meal every day! Sure the hospital failed in everything but what about the parents? Why not demand to see your newborn, ask why she needs an incubator and make sure baby stays hydrated and healthy by breastfeeding every 1-2 hours? Shady…

  • markus peg

    In China a hospital cares about money not patients, until that changes these kind of things will happen.

    How many of you in China know someone who was put on a drip for no reason? its because any reason you have a drip can be used and make money for the hospital.

    i have a bad thumb – drip
    i have a cough – drip
    i have back ache – drip

    Its the fastest way for the hospital to make a quick buck…
    It’s a bad way to run a hospital, patients should be able to trust their doctors not doubt them believing they are running pointless tests to make money…

    • Repatriated

      Chinese hospitals are torture chambers when you’re sick. Fortunately, in my 8 years in China, I only went twice. Had I become more localized, I’d have been in a hospital weekly for all the times I got food poisoning….

      Anyway, the last time I went, I was in Shanghai. I was sick as hell for about 2 weeks and finally got sick enough that I slept for 2 days. My wife dragged my sorry ass to the hospital. Turned out I had pneumonia. The process went a bit like this:

      1. Check in…

      2. Check in again showing that you actually paid to get your book.

      3. Go pay

      4. Get a useless blood test

      5. Go pay

      6. Doc spends 30 seconds to determine you have an “infection”

      7. Go pay

      8. Another Doc claims to know what a stethoscope is

      9. Go pay

      10. Better get a drip…meds prescribed

      11. Go pay

      12. Go pay

      13. Go pay

      At one point I asked the stupid clerk if I could just give her my ICBC Visa card (50k limit) and be done with the constant trips to pay, but nope. No can do. The last thing you want to be doing when you totally feel like shit is waiting in 20 fucking lines to pay, when the other people in line are arguing over 3 rmb . Great system they have.

      They wanted to send me in for IV antibiotic drips for 3 days in a row, followed by 10 days of oral antibiotics. Talk about NUKING your system. I felt immediately better after a single day of the drip, and at that point emailed a Doc friend back in the states. He told me to NO WAY go back for another drip…or take the oral antibiotics.

      No wonder shit like SARS happens in China. Keep nuking everyone’s system with antibiotics for NOTHING…and watch the new strains of viruses mutate…..

      • mr.wiener

        I’m not telling my food poisoning story again.

    • radbab

      I hate it when they try all of their new equipment out of me. A sprain? better do an MRI. Some belly ache? How about some ultra-sound. Or maybe an MRI on top.

      Although I had a really good experience at a Chinese hospital in Shanghai which my insurance recommended. They didn’t pull any stupid tricks. I was almost disappointed. I’m pretty much boycotting all the other Chinese run hospitals and their rip off “VIP” sections from now on.

      • Tionia

        Did you know MRI’s have been used since 1980 so that is not new equipment and ultrasounds have been used since the 1920’s and 1930’s so they are FAR from new equipment!

  • B*tches, Leave

    Ahh, the good ol’ incompetence here doesn’t stop to amaze me ….

  • Monkeekong

    nothing worse than when a perfectly healthy baby dies because of a mistake.

    • Mihel

      Agree.

      Personally I think is more sad when a healthy baby dies or is permanently injured because of stupid errors; than when a baby is born with problems, but the parents knew in advance of the situation, so they had time to mentally accept/prepare for this.

      A natural or congenital health problem may be accepted, an injury or other health problems caused directly by human stupidity and negligence is much harder to cope with.

  • Alex

    that’s beyond fucked up, then just laying it out for all to see, face down on a table. Thank god got a ticket to Australia coming up then back home for good.

  • Tony Heaney

    WHY ARE THEY DISPLAYING IT TO THE PUBLIC?????? DISGUSTING R.I.P LITTLE BABY

  • Animelover Gal

    I had no idea an incubator could roasted a baby.

  • laduzi

    Why aren’t people in handcuffs over this? Why haven’t people been fired? justice is a joke here.

  • Kenyah

    Peace to the family that this wonderful beautiful baby boy belongs to. It brings tears to my eye to see this happen to any child. The sad thing about it happens all the time without investigations or concern. It happen to two of my children. They killed them intentionally it seems. I am so incompetent since that horrible year when two different hospitals killed my children in the same year. Life has stopped for me but their lives continues through me for truth, righteousness, justice, and peace.

    Dr. Harold Shipman, the World’s Most Prolific Serial Killer:

    http://www.galenpress.com/demon_doctors.html
    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/shipman/dead_1.html
    http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/rlfa322atyahoodotcom

    • JONATHAN

      You are no alone baby boy. I, my sister above, and so many others have been victimized and murdered. Good people come together and put a stop to this world wide genocide of loving families. We are all connected in love so let act like we know before it is in your back yard too. We are here together to stand for what is humanly and earthly right.

  • Jenxl

    This is sooo sad

  • Tionia

    Just remember before you start judging get ALL of the facts! What you have heard is from word of mouth no first hand information! We use incubators here in the USA because babies can not regulate their body temps.
    Hypothermia occurs commonly in newborn infants, primarily as a result of the physiological transition from the relatively warmer uterine environment to life outside the uterus. The incidence of hypothermia has been shown to be inversely related to the gestational age and body weight of the infant (1): the prevalence rises from 29% at the 10th minute of life to 83% at the 60th minute of life (2). One study in Uganda found that up to 85% of babies hospitalized in the country had hypothermia (3), which can cause morbidities like hypoglycaemia, acidosis and sclerema and can be a factor in specific disease conditions like asphyxia, septicaemia and intra-cranial haemorrhage. In addition, mortality among babies who were hypothermic at the point of admission to hospital was found in one study in Nigeria to be as high as 39.7%.

    The incubators have a safety feature so a baby will not roast or bake to death!
    Overheating of equipment is watched carefully by microcontroller. If any of sensor shows temperature more than set pressure, microcontroller will cut off the transistor switch causing the relay to trip.

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