PLA Daily: ‘Pacific Rim’ Disparages China, Netizen Reactions

Raleigh and Mako, in Pacific Rim.

From Sohu:

PLA Daily: Pacific Rim Disparages China, Reminds People of US-Japan Alliance

Pacific Rim Chinese China Poster featuring Crimson Typhoon jaeger.

Recently, America’s science-fiction blockbuster Pacific Rim has been popular in [China's] theaters. It’s still the old plot of American warriors saving the world in the face of disaster, still produced by way of computer generated effects plus 3D animation, and still with exciting exaggerated spectacles that are startling but without danger. There aren’t many new selling points with this movie, but the United States’ Asia-Pacific strategy reflected in the movie is worth thinking about.

At a critical moment during a Kaiju attack, the American Jaeger pilot saves the Japanese girl Mako. Trained by the Americans, Mako then also becomes a Jaeger pilot. After defeating the Kaiju, she hugs her wounded American partner and emotionally says, “I don’t want to let you go”, which reminds us of the real world US-Japan alliance. To defeat the Kaiju, America once again plays the role of the savior and world police, seizing the opportunity to deploy multiple Jaegers around the Pacific Rim, persuading other nations to invest huge amounts of money to build 300-meter-high defensive walls. After the failure of the Jaeger program and losing the labor and financial support of its European allies, they then team up with some Pacific island countries.

The key battle in which they thoroughly defeat the Kaiju is “cleverly” chosen to be the South China Sea adjoining Hong Kong. So American Jaegers protected Hong Kong, stabilized the Asia-Pacific, and saved humanity. Americans are busy researching the Kaiju and saving humanity, but in Hong Kong, China, food, medicine, and handcrafts made of Kaiju meat, skin, internal organs, and bones are instead hot commodities, where even the plump parasites on the Kaiju bodies have become delicious tastes on the tongue [delicacies], continuing the practice of belittling and mocking China.

United States jaeger, Gipsy Danger, in Pacific Rim.

China's jaeger, Crimson Typhoon, in Pacific Rim.Japan's jaeger, Coyote Tango, in Pacific Rim.

Hollywood has always been America’s best propaganda machine, who have absorbed its understanding of America’s strategies into its bones. Hollywood spares no effort in picking materials for its blockbusters and propagating American values and global strategy. For example, Ice Age seized upon the current issue of global climate change that various nations have argued without resolution; Die Another Day vilified and insulted North Korea by depicting it as an “Axis of Evil” country; while Lord of War had the contest between the United States and Russia to be the “world’s largest arms trafficker” as its background. American blockbusters not only suck away billions of yuan from China every year, what’s more terrible is that they secretly plant Western values in China’s youth, just as former United States Secretary of State Hilary Clinton said, ”What’s more important is that we have China’s youth learn how to think with American values, and to use American systems and rules to do things.” So it appears that Pacific Rim, in its subject-matter, plot, scenes, main characters, etc., continues the same old Hollywood formula, coinciding with America’s current Asia-Pacific strategy, and thus it is self-evident what the Kaiju actually are [represent].

Currently, with the increasing interaction, mix, and conflict between all kinds of ideology and culture in the world, with the profound and complex international battle of ideology and culture, some people in the West see the development and strengthening of our country as a challenge to their values and systems [of government], and have intensified ideological infiltration against our country, sparing no cost in conducting “invisible propaganda”. So our many officers and men must remove the scales from their eyes [see clearly, be vigilant], build up an ideological “firewall”, and learn how to see American blockbusters from multiple perspectives. What is especially important is to plan ahead and prepare for danger, to expand and intensify military battle-readiness, raise our ability to fight wars and win wars, firmly safeguarding our nation’s interests of sovereignty, safety, and development.

Members of American marines and Japanese Ground Self Defense Force in Japan-US joint military exercises.

File photo: American Marines and Japanese Ground Self Defense Force members participating in a joint Japan-US military exercise.

Japanese hovercraft assault landing at the beach in the island seizing exercise.

File photo: A Japanese hovercraft’s aggressive amphibious assault during an island seizing exercise.

Joint American and Japanese amphibious assault forces and vehicles in military exercise.

File photo: Japanese and American joint amphibious assault forces in island seizing exercise.

American and Japanese amphibious forces beach landing exercise on American beach.

File photo: American and Japanese combat forces conducting an amphibious landing assault exercise on an American beach.

American tilt-rotor V-22 Osprey joining in the military exercise.

File photo: American tilt-rotor V-22 Osprey joining in the military exercise.

Comments from Sohu:

已注销 [搜狐湖北省省直辖行政单位网友]:

And deliberately make yourselves out to be the highest truth in the universe! [see another comment below]

已注销 [搜狐湖北省省直辖行政单位网友]:

Our military newspaper bigwigs don’t research how to defeat enemies but instead comment to and fro about a children’s film, and even excite themselves into righteous indignation. I want to say, what are you thinking about everyday? Do you know how old you are?

已注销 [搜狐湖北省省直辖行政单位网友]:

Even if this were so, what could you do about it? Can you change the army/military? What can you do except for singing praises of the motherland? Propaganda department, are you capable of making blockbusters with socialism with Chinese characteristics? No, you can’t, so why the hell are you still talking nonsense? Every year the military recruitment advertisements and themes are always so simple and dull, without imagination or creativity, hiring dog-shit directors [for the ads]. Stop complaining about lack of funds. Arrest a few corrupt official and you’ll have [the funds you claim to lack]. In fact, you might as well just have me direct them [the recruitment ads].

热情腐朽54820826 [搜狐浙江省杭州市网友]:

I don’t think the PLA Daily overly interpreted it! When I was watching the movie myself, I had these feelings too. Both the Chinese and Russian Jaegers didn’t get to do anything before they were quickly taken out, and in the end it was still America and Japan working together that saved the world.
But it’s a film made by America, so making themselves look good is understandable. Not making us out to be the villain is good enough as it is. If we’re unhappy about it, we should put our minds towards making a movie that surpasses it, so that the people of the world will watch Chinese movies and accept Chinese ideas. This is the right way!

国之无能_民何有尊 [搜狐北京市网友]:

They dare to make a movie about the surrender of the White House! Dare you?
They dare to make the American President a prisoner/hostage in the movies. Dare you?
They dare to show their military power directly in the movies. Dare you?
They dare to depict fighting the countries hostile to them in the real world in the movies. Dare you?
They dare to say it directly in movies, “American politicians are a bunch of garbage!” Dare you?
Why is it that when there’s a problem, it’s always someone else’s fault? And deliberately make yourselves out to be the highest truth in the universe!
Could you really achieve being so?

浴霸2012 [搜狐四川省成都市网友]:

There are so many lunatics in the army, being able to elevate others making a movie to the level of principles and policy [make a simple movie out to represent so many things]. If you have the ability, go make your own movie. Motherfuckers.

经年未变5253419 [搜狐网友]:

Truly impressed, being able to see the things you want to see and being able to elevate even a story about robots fighting monsters to the level of principles and policy. Do you not have anything better to do?

爱上旅行143 [搜狐江苏省苏州市网友]:

The US-Japan alliance is the cornerstone of stability and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific. In the face of unreasonable instigation, Japan has the right to normalize its country [generally, remilitarization]!

2URCrazy [搜狐上海市网友]: (responding to above)

The fact is just the opposite of what you said. Ever since the United States announced it’s strategic focus on the Asia-Pacific, East Asia and Southeast Asia has not been very peaceful. Historically-speaking, Japan has no shortage of crimes. Now the far-right are in power in Japan and there is a trend towards militarization. I really don’t see what the basis is for saying the US-Japan alliance is the cornerstone of stability and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific.

爱上旅行143 [搜狐江苏省苏州市网友]: (responding to above)

Without Japan’s 30 years of interest-free loans, would China have its [current level of] development? Wasn’t Shanghai’s highest building, the Shanghai World Financial Center, [built with] investment from the Japanese? What is this notion of Japanese militarization? Having a national defense force is every country’s basic right, recognized by the United Nations.

Linda [搜狐上海市网友]: (responding to above)

My thoughts are about the same as yours. It has already been over 60 years since World war II, why can’t Japan become a  normal country? Just because one government became a defeated country, does that mean the country can never have its own military ever again? In Chinese history, China had invaded other countries too, but how come we never see any introspection/soul-searching in its textbooks, but instead it is made out to be something very glorious? It’s a bandit’s logic. Those who want to yell at me can go ahead! I’ll just treat it all as farts!

米珠薪桂5273658 [搜狐北京市网友]: (responding to above)

Reply to Linda: Who has China invaded in history? Can you give us a list? Isn’t it none other than comrade Genghis Khan? Have Han Chinese invaded anyone? I have never heard of it. Even in this day and age there are still so many Japan-loving traitors.

尘埃未定57007279 [搜狐浙江省台州市网友]: (responding to above)

We were exploring our frontier.

骑青牛的人 [搜狐江苏省苏州市网友]: (responding to above)

If the 3rd and 4th floor [the 3rd and the 4th comments in a thread of comments] are Chinese, what we can imagine is how frightening the disaster will be that comes with giving up the ideological battle and persisting in bringing in western culture catering to western tastes. At the same time, it proves just how big of a failure Chinese education is today!

问心无愧5116889b [搜狐山西省大同市网友]: (responding to above)

I just love using thinking with American values, to piss off you Ministry of Truth running dogs!

半个灵魂56538705 [搜狐山东省网友]: (responding to above)

You should change your name from “with a clear conscience” to “with a guilty conscience”.

演绎轮回5237517 [搜狐福建省网友]: (responding to above)

Without the United States and Japan, there would not be today’s China; this is obvious to all. It is precisely because you Chinese people were so arrogant and didn’t take other countries seriously that you were beset by so many countries.

URCrazy [搜狐上海市网友]: (responding to above)

How do I say this? Using American values to consider problems is not necessarily wrong. This is an issue of standpoint, and I can understand it (maybe they are Americans). But one mustn’t throw away one’s basic capacity for logical thought, can’t ignore historical facts, can’t be ignorant of current international politics, economy, and military affairs. This is an issue of one’s IQ, an issue of of one’s level of knowledge. Your problem right now is the latter.

China's jaeger, Crimson Typhoon.

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  • Ami

    5th comment down makes a good point. While most films are positive-ish, there are plenty of American movies and documentaries which either openly satirize or directly criticize american politics. I don’t know one chinese film that does that and got played/discussed all over the country.

    • lonetrey / Dan

      I felt that was a really good point.

    • moldavidian

      I wish i could also rate the Chinese comments as they often are honest and profound.

    • Beijinger

      Some American films are also openly racist and stereotype Asians.

      I don’t know one of them that got openly discussed in mainstream American media either.

      • Jahar

        Care to cite some examples?

        • Ren

          lost in translation

        • biggj

          There are tons. Then again there are tons of racist black, white,arab, jew, pretty much everyone. But it’s funny racism.

      • Ami

        “Some” chinese films aren’t racist? Name a modern chinese war film that showed at least 4 japanese characters positively.
        But: I do like that you used “some”, it actually shows you’re reasonable lol.

      • Zappa Frank

        movies stereotype anyone more or less. Frenchs, Italians, Russians, Mexicans, south americans and so on.

    • RothschildIsMoney

      As American i wonder what American medias criticize American politics?
      Fox news, CNN, NBC?

      • Ami

        I like how you left out MSNBC and Fox News does regularly “criticize” politicians, but only democrats.

        Also American Media=/=only tv channels.
        New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street journal and Forbes, Foreign Policy, even sites like Vice or Mother Jones. Not to mention tons of personal blogs and social networks and the like.

        Think about it: Your name is “RothschildIsMoney” could you imagine a Chinese Netizen with the name “JiabaoIsMoney”??

        American news networks can be terrible but we’re not as bad a China.

        • RothschildIsMoney

          Well, you said it, New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street journal, Forbes, Foreign Policy, ALL of them.
          Sorry but Vice is independent. Not state owned. Or maybe i should say “corporate”.
          So no. That is typical American right-wing nationalist rhetoric to say our govt always better even it’s wrong than X country.

  • ….

    A state propaganda department accusing a foreign independent entertainment industry of being a state propaganda department.. goofy but predictable.

    • raidenkuwamara

      “foreign corporatism entertainment industry”
      FTFY

    • POS

      How did you manage to garner 10 thumbs down? Apparently pointing out the egg on the face makes some people feel insecure :P

  • 二奶头发

    When was the last time china actually made a GOOD science-fiction movie?

    • Elijah

      Rise/Birth of a Nation I think it was called.

      Fiction throughout and science fiction cause of the time travelling that must have occurred with the weapons, uniforms, politics, membership, etc.

      Wait, my mistake, that movie doesn’t count. You were asking for a GOOD movie. Sorry.

      • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

        Yeah you’re thinking of something else, Birth of a Nation was that really REALLY old white supremacist film that glorified the Klan.

        • 二奶头发

          I’ve seen that movie. mostly white guys wearing black paint on their faces to look black. they did have some actual black people in the movie. in the congress scene for example.

        • Elijah

          I believe that was the point I was making. One group of xenophobic, racist and hateful people is the same as another… Both made up glorified lies as their history to cover up their real past and both appeal to the simple, confused and easily controlled.

          Get it now?

          • Robert Rou

            Lol. I was beginning to think it was some sort of Freudian slip on your part? Glad you clarified it!

          • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

            Well sort of but it took a while as the question leading to it was about sci fi films. Birth of a Nation isn’t sci fi. That’s fantasy.

    • Mighty曹

      When was the FIRST time?

      • 二奶头发

        That is true. the only chinese movie I liked (it was not a science-fiction) was beijing blues and that was because the director did a great job and all the actors were no-name and not those bubble gum actors that are in ALL the f**k’n movies.

        • Mighty曹

          I was impressed by the visual effects in “唐山大地震”. Great movie too!

    • Alex

      建国大业

      • POS

        haha, yea wasn’t there a fat headed alien leading China in that movie and he ended up causing millions of people to die? Oh wait that was Mao?

    • Eurotrash

      Good question. I want to make one soon.

  • lonetrey / Dan

    I’m glad that the chinese netizens can see both sides of the argument! While I did cringe a little while watching the movie, overall I don’t think the movie meant to be pro-America propaganda so much a fun-to-watch children movie.

    • Robert Rou

      IMO, best Chinese netizen comment:

      “If you have the ability, go make your own movie. Motherfuckers.”

  • Opalivian

    China is just a little upset by not being part of the team. A good movie is a good movie. I could care less about anything else.

    • Probotector

      But Obama invited them to participate in RIMPAC.

  • Robert Rou

    Any chance we’re going to get less of the cringeworthy? I’m talking about the strident military articles, public defecation, Hollywood paranoia stuff.

    How about Bo Xilai, Xiaomi/Google, higher education readership, etc. ?

    But maybe it’s just me. I’m not that big on chicken feet either.

  • Marcus Muller

    Guess they didn’t see the neo-Red Dawn lol. Now THAT can be called clear cut propaganda. Hollywood has a LONG history of racism/political agenda. Nothing new.

    • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

      Yeah but they seem to be looking for propaganda in the wrong places.

      I mean Lord of War’s message of arms trafficking was supposed to be a bad thing, but their department of wherever-the-hell-they-get-they’re-info treats it like some kinda pro-american thing.

      • Kai

        Yeah, that was just further evidence of the writer failing to understand rather big details in these movies.

  • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

    Okay I understand that they’re miffed that Crimson Typhoon didn’t get enough screen time before being destroyed, but that doesn’t make him any less awesome. Heck I don’t think Russians complaining about Cherno Alpha getting similar treatment.

    Besides I think the ‘sequel’ may actually be a prequel so fingers crossed we’ll see more of those two.

    • Nick in Beijing

      Why fingers crossed? Are people really so insecure about the nation their mother squatted them out in that they care how much screen time a robot with stereotypical attributes of that country gets in a summer sci-fi flick? Even worse are people really afraid of other countries getting offended at the lack of screen time in said movie?

      Who cares. Really.

      • Terrik

        The PLA, apparently. But it goes to show HOW much they care.

      • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

        Given the comments in Youku, plenty care.
        “The Chinese Robot dies in less than 5 minutes!” every other page in the comments section of nearly every trailer.

        I wanna see more of them because the little time they had was awesome. I wanna see more of Cherno Alpha besides the robo arm.

        • Kai

          Hah, yeah, I was kinda sad they didn’t get to do more but they did at least give them some display of coolness. I want to say Crimson Alpha got to do something way flashier and impressive with the whole over-the-top reverse throw (which was a lot cooler than the random face-to-face slashing that didn’t seem to do much damage) than Cherno Alpha’s fist bashing but then I guess Cherno Alpha got to do the initial taunt so they kinda evened out in terms of getting a decent scene in. I think we all expected Gispy Danger to be the hero jaeger but I was surprised the Australian jaeger had such a big role.

  • Mighty曹

    It’s actually very entertaining to see the over sensitivity and paranoia that the PLA sees.

    • POS

      PLA officer corps make the insecurity and inferiority complexes of Kan, Rou, et al seem positively light weight. Of course most of them got into the officer corps via hongbaos so they are not what I would term professionals.

      • Mighty曹

        Most enter the PLA officers corp for advancement in the future without thinking the actual possibility of going to war. So this is a good outlet for their insecurity.

  • mwanafa

    Good movie, no comment. Some of us can learn from my experience, read carefully if you don’t want to fall into this scam.
    My sister was leaving this town today, so I sent her over to the train station. I am new to this town, so I decided to not take a taxi back to my school(To see the city of course, and the road was just straight to my school). I was on foot for about an hour that I got near my University, excited that I made it.
    It was about 6 pm, so I decided to have dinner at a restaurant nearby. Soon as I finished dinner I was out on a walk again… blah blah blah I just wanted to share this story that happened after.
    I ran into this lady, about 22 years old, she waved with a big smile “Hi”, and it all went like this:
    Mwanafa:Hi, how are you?
    Lady: Can you speak Chinese?
    Mwanafa:Yeah, a little.
    Lady: (Speaking Mandarin) This is not my school, I lost my wallet, I am very hungry, can you buy me some food?
    Mwanafa: (Speaking Mandarin) h, no problem, there are many restaurants here. You can buy a cheap meal for a moment. How much do you want?
    Lady: (Speaking Mandarin)Any amount is fine, but I need some extra money for a taxi, I will give you back tomorrow, here is my phone, tell me your number.
    (taking out her Iphone5)
    Mwanafa:(Speaking Mandarin) Oh I just bought my new number, I can’t remember my number.(Searching my pockets, found 80 yuan pocket change. So I took 30yuan and gave her.)
    Lady:(Speaking Mandarin) You know I will give your money back tomorrow so don’t you worry, just give me 80 or 100 it will be enough, I have to go to the airport!
    Mwanafa: Which school are you studying?
    Lady: (Can’t say the school)
    Mwanafa:(Speaking Mandarin) Oh ok, your school is not around here, right? I will give you 200, give me that 30.
    She gave me that 30 yuan and I ran like I have seen a ghost.
    Right after about 400 meters, two girls stopped me, the same story “Can you speak Chinese?” Mwanafa:Yes, OneLady:(Speaking Mandarin) Me and my friend came to do shopping here but we lost our wallets in a taxi, now we just need some few yuan to buy food, and some for taxi to get us to our home.
    I said ok, I will help you get down to the police station it’s not far from here, one of them grabbed my hand with which I had the 30 yuan, saying “go to the station for what, you gonna give us this much or not?”. Anyway, I found out this was just a scam, so I scared the shit out of them and went back to my room.
    Be careful people, I thought I had to share this even though it’s totally has nothing to do with the story.

    • Mighty曹

      LOL@ “i will give you 200, give me that 30″. You scammed her!! hahahaha!!

      • Eurotrash

        That was smart.

        • Mighty曹

          I would’ve just cut my loss and ran without recovering the 30.

      • mwanafa

        Haha, this proves that understanding your enemy is very important, scam her to get back the money she scammed you. Scammers fall for scams easier.

        • Mighty曹

          The next time you take your money back she’ll scream, “Help!! I’m being robbed!”.

    • Robert

      I had this happen on the way home from work in Shanghai, two girls same story. They wanted food or so they said. Suspecting that they may not be honest and coming from Philly myself I decided to take them to a noodle shop across the street. When we got inside I let them order what they wanted, paid the cashier and started to leave, good deed done. They looked disappointed and followed me towards the door asking for more money. Screw them! I Ignored them and walked out. I walked a block and turned around to see them exiting the store, without the food. Some people have no souls.

      • Chael_Sonnen

        Why not try to have a threesome with them?

    • 剑胆琴心

      more often is,two or three girls pretend students on the stage of people park, hook up one foreigner, try to talk to him(normally guys they pick up) , iafter 15 mins invite him to have a cup of tea in a tea shop…one pot of tea around 300 to…
      i saw it happen often in people park.

      • Ichiro

        Happened to me with a friend of mine in Shanghai … those tea pots had gold in them

    • Kai

      Yeah, common scam that (in my experience) typically women run. Off the top of my head, I remember being approached like this at Xintiandi in Shanghai and interestingly, once in a Burger King in Los Angeles (the woman wasn’t Chinese in that case). Scams that prey on people’s kindness is the most infuriating.

      • biggj

        “Scams that prey on people’s kindness is the most infuriating.”

        Also the most effective.

        • Kai

          I want to say scams that prey on people’s insecurities are but yeah, maybe you’re right. So fucked up.

        • mwanafa

          Yeah, you know at first I thought “Oh, poor girl”, but the way she looked at the money, I saw deep in her eyes that she was actually disappointed, and something came into my mind, if it was me, I would be grateful if a stranger offers me even 1 yuan.

      • mwanafa

        What’s bad is that next time I meet someone really in need, I will hesitate or may be not help at all.

      • Terrik

        XINTIANDI is the worst. one of the many reasons I stopped going there.

        • 剑胆琴心

          xintiandi is for travellers…bars just …really average…
          food very expensive…and full of hookers. also white hookers…
          once i sat outside starbucks, i heard a guy kept asking guys :hey,do you want a girl?
          i was so ……why i always see bad things …my ears and eyes …

          • Terrik

            Yep. It’s a cool place to visit, but I wouldn’t make it a destination for an outing. I use to like walking down Nanjing road too until I kept getting harassed to buy watches and prostitutes.

        • Kai

          I’ve never found XinTianDi to be all that fun and I haven’t been in eons. It always struck me as an upscale tourist trap (which it is). The reconstruction and “history” is novel but it’s just two blocks. There’s no real compelling shopping, dining, or even nightlife there. I suppose you can go there and people watch tourists and pretty girls that look suspiciously like they’re out on the prowl.

  • Eileithyia

    it’s funny most people here in Hong Kong like Japan more than China.

    • Sane

      Thats because you honkies are still just q bunch of foreigners dogs

      • Guang Xiang

        and thank god too, otherwise, HK would be a shit place

        • Joseph Matsuura

          Boom! Take that you uber-nationalistic piece of trash!(Sane)

  • takasar1

    honestly the gist of the argument (Hollywood existing as a symbol of american propaganda) has enormous credibility but they chose the wrong movie to argue about. this piece of crap (boring as hell) is nothing more than a children’s film, trying to branch off into japan (hence kuchiki) and failing in that regard. i dont really comment about politics on a a daily basis but any sucker knows that as soon as the chinese get democracy they’ll quickly realise why so many westerners complain about it. their naive deluded views regarding democracy (which boils down to a pristine picture of the white house in many cases) and capitalism (some morons still think their country is communist!) make me cringe on a daily basis and their incessant inferiority complex never ceases to annoy me, its just as Temple puts it:

    “One of the greatest untold secrets of history is that the ‘modern world’
    in which we live is a unique synthesis of Chinese and Western
    ingredients. Possibly more than half of the basic inventions and
    discoveries upon which the ‘modern world’ rests come from China. And yet
    few people know this. Why?

    The Chinese themselves are as ignorant of this fact as Westerners.
    From the seventeenth century onwards, the Chinese became increasingly
    dazzled by European technological expertise, having experienced a period
    of amnesia regarding their own achievements. When the Chinese were
    shown a mechanical clock by Jesuit missionaries, they were awestruck.
    They had forgotten that it was they who had invented mechanical clocks
    in the first place!”

    motherf*ckers place so much emphasis on recording history but all those i have met know nothing about it.

    as for the uneducated fool who thinks japan created china, well…do i even need to dignify this with a response?? the West created china, be it by snapping it out of its stupor in 1840 or by supplying the technology which it has used to rebuild itself. technology flowed from west to east during the last 2-3 centuries (as it had flowed in the opposite direction for centuries before) as it has done throughout time. but i dont think i have ever come across such a stupid argument, the japanese created china today??? you may have it the other way round (at least culturally)

    • Jahar

      half of the modern world rests on discoveries and inventions from China? That’s a bold statement.

      • Whaddashack

        Yes, maybe not half the world. But certainly a lot of things we enjoy today came from China more than any single country with few exceptions. There are simply countries that have made an impact and those that have not. Canada unfortunately falls into the latter category/

        • biggj

          Of the modern things we use 50% are British. And 25% are American. China has some old inventions but nothing really much in the past few hundred years. China has some great inventions like the compass, paper, printing.and powder. But as for modern inventions….that falls to the British and America.

        • Jahar

          Here you go with the insults again. What’s with the big hate on for Canada?

          if we are going by countries, Canada is relatively new, and we have had our share of inventions and discoveries. in the 130 or so years of Canada’s existence, they have accomplished a hell of a lot more than China.

          And are you talking about this current country? the PRC? or different countries that were here in the past? or all of them? or the civilization? because that will change the discussion as well.

          • Whaddashack

            I didn’t know that telling the truth about Canada amounts to hate.

            Rubbish, Canada hasn’t accomplished more than China. Not ever. And that includes even the last 10 years of the PRC. China runs circles around Canada, but the thing is, she runs circles around most countries when it comes to inventions and discoveries and just overall greatness. No need to feel bad about this.

      • takasar1

        it was Temple’s point but i largely agree with it. the world west of Constantinople entered a decline post AD 300, from then to 1700, it was china, india and the various arab empires which promoted learning and engineered innovative miracles. technology flowed east to west during that period and some like gunpowder, printing and the compass had enormous social, political and economic effects in europe. the west built its recent greatness on the foundations they were handed, just like the chinese are now building their future on the foundations laid out by the west.

    • Kai

      I think I understand your gripe, but there’s quite a few counterpoints to some of the things you said. For example, one good reason why many Chinese may have been “awestruck” by Western technology despite such technology arguably tracing roots back to China is that such technology was popularized in the West more than in China. Technology doesn’t exist on its own, it’s also about how it is put to use for both the individual and society overall.

      The “uneducated fool” didn’t say Japan created China. He’s just arguing that Japan has played a notable role in the modern development of China, which is true, just as it is true that the West has helped China as well. It’d only be false if no credit is given to the Chinese themselves for what they’ve managed to do on their end. The point is to give credit where it is due, and certain people on “both sides” often fail to do so.

      • takasar1

        i dont really have a gripe, its more an annoyance at the people around me and their ignorance, naivety and delusion when it comes to the outside world and to their own country. china may have been high-tech for the first 1500 years after christ but you are right, it wasnt wide-tech. still the first people to investigate these mechanical watches were officials, those who had read the official history’s and when one of them pointed out the fact that mechanical watches had been built before, he was quickly shot down as being a simpleton. yes japan probably did play a notable role (amounting, pretty much, to fdi in dalian) but its role is/was minor when compared to deng’s, america’s, europe’s and also those other states that make up ‘greater china’.

    • Q Ball

      China is lucky it wasn’t colonized like North America and Australia. Then only 4 million Chinese would be alive in Chinese reservations, rest genocided. The white country would be called Oriental United States.

      • takasar1

        agreed, china was lucky that a) it was large and b) western powers were too busy destroying each other

    • Whaddashack

      Fascinating analysis and quite right. That’s why when many Chinese start performing and doing super humanly well, they always surprise themselves. Being taught the virtue of humility produces amazing results.

  • http://junpeijump.tumblr.com/ タイガー&ドラゴン

    Over analyze a decent film much?

    • Kai

      It’s worse when they overanalyze details they’ve gotten wrong.

  • Butsu

    I wonder if the PLA guy even watched the movie. Idris Elbas character is actually British and not American. And the organization we follow in the movie (from when they arrive in Hong Kong and forward) is not American either, it’s people from all over the world working together. In the foreword I think the main guy says that the goverments around the world put past differences aside to topple this new threat. In the long run, Rayleigh happen to be an American pilot, but it sure as hell isn’t USA protecting anyone, nor being a saviour of mankind.

    While they didn’t do much and lost pretty fast in the movie, it was stated how good Cherno Alpha and Crimson Typhoon (and their respective crews/pilots) were. They had protected their designated areas for a very long time.

    If he had actually watched the movie then he would’ve noticed that the scavenging of Kaijus and people buying their stuff was not only done in Hong Kong. It was done all over the world. So there wasn’t any mockery at place here either.

    And sure, the money comes from Hollywood. But why would Guillermo del Toro, a Mexican, do an American propaganda movie? I just don’t see it.

    • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

      ” To defeat the Kaiju, America once again plays the role of the
      savior and world police, seizing the opportunity to deploy multiple
      Jaegers around the Pacific Rim, persuading other nations to invest huge
      amounts of money to build 300-meter-high defensive walls. After the
      failure of the Jaeger program
      and losing the labor and financial support of its European allies, they
      then team up with some Pacific island countries.”

      Yeah either something was lost in translation or they’re just making stuff up.

      • utera

        Yea if anything it was things like stupid walls in the movie that people should complain about, not the nationality of the freakin robot pilots and the rest.

    • Kai

      YES! Been reading to see if anyone else have pointed these out yet. It’s one thing to make an argument based on cherry-picked details, but another to make an argument based on cherry-picked details that are wrong. Like AGDM below, reading this made me wonder how accurate the subtitles were to the dialogue. I’m sure a big production like this would’ve properly localized the subtitles but I doubt major details would be so significantly changed in the process. Either this guy wasn’t paying attention or his desire to fit the movie into his argument has corrupted his memory.

      I might be able to forgive this guy for not being able to tell that Stacker Pentacost was actually British (though I think there was at least one line somewhere in there that established that) but he shouldn’t have missed that Mako was adopted and that the PPDC was an international organization that had lost all government support and was relying on the black market funding to maintain operations. I mean, that was the whole point of bringing in Hellboy and explaining his role.

      Other glaring obnoxious mistakes:

      - Suggesting the jaegers were all American and America had exploited the Kaiju attack to deploy them.

      - That America persuaded the rest of the world to build the walls. Though I guess you could be forgiven for making that mistake if you remembered the American president’s dialogue over the British and Canadian and thus thought it was spearheaded by the Americans (which arguably is possible but that’s a bit passing-the-buck).

      - That America turned to the Pacific “island countries” after losing “European” support. What island countries? Where did this come from at all? From interpreting Japanese Mako as “support from island country Japan?” From interpreting the Australians as “support from island country Australia?” From interpreting their final base in Hong Kong as “support from island country Hong Kong?” Where did this notion come from?

      - That the battle at Hong Kong represented the South China Seas. This is just reaching.

      I’ve read enough of the IMDB forums to know that people get things wrong about movies that are obvious to others all the time, but this idiocy is obnoxious as Red Dawn. Just like 经年未变5253419 said, talk about seeing only what you want to see.

      • firebert5

        To point out an issue that wasn’t so much an inaccuracy as it was a “duh” moment, “Hollywood spares no effort in picking materials for its blockbusters and propagating American values and global strategy.” No duh. Hollywood is American. What kind of values does Chinese cinema propagate?

        • Kai

          Yeah, totally. No idea why this guy has any expectation of American Hollywood not having its own biases and predispositions. The “global strategy” thing is even more of a joke. It’s arguable that American media can be controlled and influenced by American government political policy but it’s just selective blindness to not recognize the many exceptions to that as well as how much less so China’s media is in comparison.

    • slob

      I’ve yet to see it. It’s showing at the theatres here but I’m in a bit of a conundrum – Watch it online for free but with a really shitty quality in-theater shot version, or pay 50RMB to go and watch it with 200 people who will be talking and playing on their phones the entire time, OR wait for the DVD to come out.

      Shit sucks.

    • mattman_183

      Oh, you said it first. But yeah…for real.

  • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

    You could pretty much turn any movie, if you are desperate enough, into a slight against the feelings of the Chinese people.

    • biggj

      That is so true. Or they need to put in their own propaganda before it can be shown in theaters.

    • POS

      You just don’t understand Chinese culture! Reading into nothing and constructing a victim narrative is an intricate part of China’s 5000 years of culture you Westerners just can’t understand the amazing complexity of Eastern civilizations!

  • biggj

    PACIFIC RIM:CHINESE OFFICIAL EDITION
    “Harmony Restored”

    • 二奶头发

      now the guy on the right has man boobs….

  • stevelaudig

    As expected, Japan gives the US a Pacific Rim Job.

    • mr.wiener

      Nasty!

  • Claude

    Oh Oh! Isn’t that Japanese actress Rinko Kikushi? I smell a protest against Japanese imperialism.

  • moldavidian

    This is how religious conflict started…. with a work of fiction that everyone interprets differently. The saddest part is that this work of fiction is mediocre at best. How absurd would it be if it started a war?

    • Rosemon Calvin Pilot

      …Honestly….Id laugh my ass off. I already am by the thought of it

  • biggj

    Yeah I’m pissed off too. Where was the Canadian robot? He could have used a big ass hockey stick for weapon and shot maple syrup out of his eyes and rammed the enemy with his giant moose horns. haha

    “After defeating the Kaiju, she hugs her wounded American partner
    and emotionally says, “I don’t want to let you go”, which reminds us of
    the real world US-Japan alliance.” haha ok….

    ” BigJ agrues with his lady about letting him use the pencil she is using so he can do his crossword in the news paper” Which reminds us of the China-Canada dispute over the price of soft lumber.”

    You can look at anything and make it fit your agenda.

    Another movie I watch recently was ” Man of Tai Chi” with Tiger Chan and Keanu Reeves. I liked that movie. The scenes in china seemed real to me. Like when they were in Beijing. And the fighting was awesome. I think that was an american movie.I know Keanu Reeves directed it. And the hero was a the chinese guy. Like he kicked everyones ass. He even killed Keanu. haha I bet the Chinese loved that movie.

    About pacific rim….it was an alright movie…it was fun to watch with the special effects…but thats about it. I think Japan had a big role because I think it is their idea. There is an anime with the same idea as this. I think it’s called neon genisis. or something like that. But it’s almost exactly the same. These kids control these big robots that defend the earth/Japan against these giant monsters.

    .

    • Kai

      The concept of mechs fighting monsters predates Neon Genesis Evangelion but Del Toro definitely wasn’t going to make a movie that many people recognize with Japan without paying some homage to Japan. That said, I don’t think Mako’s role was the homage to Japan. It’s more like he wanted a pretty Asian girl to be a main character love interest to the American Raleigh. Lots of things can be read into that trope but it being an intentional nod to Japan wouldn’t be near the top of my list. The major scene of her as a kid with the Kaiju attacking Japan and Coyote Tango defeating it was more the nod and proper respect paid to Japan. Of course, they could’ve done more and had Japanese pilots piloting their own Jaeger instead of British Pentacost but Del Toro went out of his way to acknowledge the Japanese inspiration. He was good about that. I think there might be more people pissed and feeling betrayed that there wasn’t a Mexican or at least Latin/South American jaeger in the film.

      Sad Keanu amuses me.

      • biggj

        I am huge fan of sci fi movies, but I could not get into this. The special effect are top notch, wonderful really. And the story line is alright. It’s kind of dull acting to me.At certain point I just wish I could fast forward to the action scenes. I don’t know why, i think it was just hyped up so much I was expecting too much when I went and saw it. I liked the movie, just not as much as I thought I would.

        But I never seen noticed anything that would make the Chinese upset. Other than the fact that America was working with a Japanese girl. And the Chinese robot never got a lot of screen time. But like I said before, if you look hard enough, you can find what you are looking for even if it’s not there.

        Have you seen Man of tai chi? Tiger Chan is the man. hahaha Yeah keanu did a good job at directing it but he should have got someone else to play the bad guy. If David Carradine was still alive I would gotten him to play the bad guy. And just used special effects for his fight scenes for him. ahahah Reeves just don’t fit the part of an evil character.

        • Kai

          Yeah, acting was pretty lousy. For me, the most underwhelming thing was the soundtrack. It sounded really cheesy to me and could’ve been better. The story isn’t mind-blowing and is pretty cliche but I’m a sucker for backstories and background worlds.

          The hype was pretty big and my friends and I worried about being let down as well. I was initially rather let down when I saw it in a regular theatre but I saw it again on IMAX and came away rather satisfied. I even upped my IMDB score as a result of that second IMAX viewing.

          I thought the foo man chu caricatures of Chinese people treating exotic things as for example aphrodesiacs was somewhat an irksome stereotype. It’s precisely because I straddle both cultures that it stands out to me. Before seeing the movie, friends and I even joked about the many possible reasons why the Chinese jaeger needed three pilots. I mean, it wasn’t lost on us that the explanation was to enable three arms in one unit for an extra vector of attack, but we’d entertain the notion of “hey, what’re they trying to say, that three Chinese brains is equivalent to two non-Chinese brains?” We knew Del Toro wouldn’t be stupid enough to do something like that but we could imagine non-Chinese people making that joke and it’d be reasonably annoying, and it cerain also reveals something about what we fear. We also made jokes about the third pilot being a child in there making iPhones.

          I personally wouldn’t have made the ridiculous “this is a meta-reminder to China about the US-Japanese alliance” conclusion this PLA guy made. That’s definitely looking at everything through really specific colored lenses for me. The most annoying part is that a careful watching of the movie totally contradicts the things he cites for supporting that interpretation. It’s one thing to cherry-pick, and another thing to cherry-pick things that aren’t even there. That’s what this guy did and it’s fucking infuriating. His overall thesis is certainly arguable, but he used such a poor example. He sets an arguable thesis back by poorly arguing it.

          No, haven’t seen or even heard of Man of Tai Chi but your description definitely made me curious. I’ll have to remember to find a torrent of it or something. Poor Keanu is trying so hard to shake his pretty boy dimwit image. I feel bad for him. I’ll try to get around to it so don’t be surprised if one day I randomly bring it up and tell you my impression of the movie!

          • biggj

            Yeah, Man of tai chi I just randomly came across looking at torrents. I was very surprised by the movie. I was expecting some lame ass fight scenes and stupid story line like most of the new kung fu movies are. The fighting is what stood out to me, really good sequences. And the movie takes place in Beijjing and Hong Kong and it’s not candy coated type backgrounds, It’s like real shit. I even watched it back to back like it do with most movies I like. I was just checking wiki and I guess it Keanu’s first directed film.And it won some Beijing film awards. it’s done really well. This movie just made its place in the my top ten of martial arts movies. If he can direct a movie this good, I kind of want to see if he does any more movie like this. Watch it right away if you can and back to me let me know what you think. When I first saw I thought it was a 100% Chinese directed movie, it has that Chinese feel to it. It’s hard to explain but you will see what I mean, and it’s surprising because it’s directed by Reeves.

            I also watch pacific rim at the IMAX, It was pretty intense. Yeah the scenes where they are in Hong Kong kind of made me chuckle a bit. It’s just a movie though, it’s going to full of stereotypical bullshit. Yeah the PLA guy…..that’s just crazy talk. But if it your job to find fault in this type of stuff I would expect things like that. I honestly don’t know what china expects.It’s an American movie and when china is not the shooting star or not looked at as equal to America and especially if Japan is made to look better, then it’s seem as American propaganda against china. It’s fine to look for things like this but it get too much with china….it’s just paranoia. And like the said, the examples he states are pretty shitty, he’s just stirring shit for the sake of stirring shit.

            Oh, and the Wumao’s are on me Kia…..My pic of pacific rim government official thing got like 10 down votes in like 1 minute.haha. I don’t care or anything..it;s just kind of funny. Maybe I am threat to the harmony of china. :)

          • Kai

            With Pacific Rim, it was easy to fear that all the “money-shots” (the “oh dayums”, “holy shits”, *squeals*) were in the trailers. Like, the rocket punch and the tanker ship batting scenes, after seeing those, you’d be hyped, but then you’d get this feeling that those were probably the best (well, most amusing) scenes in the movie.

            Heh, I don’t think the downvotes are from wumaos. That PS was just one of your worst. It was uninspired. You were lazy.

          • POS

            I got hit by that wumao storm also (noticed they all came in rather quick even when most other comments had few or no votes), they are way to obvious sometimes… I thought that PS was right swell myself btw :P

          • biggj

            Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah the PS is not so much the quality of picture, It’s the humor factor. I’ll be the first to admit I suck at PS and only spend maybe 2 minutes on each picture, but I find it funny. haha. Yeah they do it so the post will be at the bottom of the page, it’s alright it’s not there there are 1000′s of comments to look though.

    • POS

      They are rioting inthe streets of Korea right now; Korean civilization, the greatest in the history of mankind and not a single Korean mech! just kidding, not everyone has the glum butthurt mindset of a overweight middle schooler.

      • Kai

        They’re not rioting because in their mind, Crimson Typhoon was Korean.

        ;)

        • POS

          Well you guys already stole Cao-Cao and traditional Korean characters so this is just adding insult to injury!

  • biggj

    Like someone else said,Chinese should just make their own version of the movie.

    Have only Chinese robots operated by government officials. The more national pride they have they have the better they can control the robot. And instead of saving the world from monsters, just show the robots just beating the fuck out of japan and America and everyone else who gets in the way.

    Since the robots are fueled by baijiu, all the other nations try to destroy the Chinese distilleries, and they also succeed until…..Mao Zedong shoots out of the ocean riding a giant chinese dragon and finishes destroying the enemies of china. At the end of movie the government gives all it’s citizens moon cakes and a free Iphones. With all the loawai destroyed, Chinese can finally live happily ever after.

    The end.

    Best…..movie….ever!

    • Jahar

      That sounds a lot like the history they learn here.

    • Probotector

      Sounds like the synopsis of the five-year plan from the next party congress.

    • POS

      And whitey kow-tows to Mao, big noses pressed to the floor with tears of gratitude for the celestial kingdoms righteous benevolence! Oh and the dalai lama gets hit by a bus in the bloopers cut and Mao has a hearty laugh.

  • mr.wiener

    When I saw the title of this story I thought , What the Chinese govt were saying they are the evil aliens?

  • dumbledore

    “Reply to Linda: Who has China invaded in history? Can you give us a list? Isn’t it none other than comrade Genghis Khan? Have Han Chinese invaded anyone? I have never heard of it. Even in this day and age there are still so many Japan-loving traitors.”

    Oh my,,, the dumbassery is strong in this one.

    • Chom

      so can you reply to his question? Who have Han Chinese ever invaded? Vietnam and Korea were not invasions, the Chinese backed up one side is both those. So which countries have Han Chinese ever invaded?

      • Terrik

        Ah, so, I suppose the 56 minorities joined China because they thought the Han were so awesome. Look at the ever changing map of “China” through the dynasty periods to get your answer.

        • Chom

          China having lots of nationalities says nothing about the question at hand. Just because a country consists of many nationalities is not necessarily tied to any “invasions”. Where do you get the notion that one country should only consist of people from one ethnic background?

          No doubt certain dynasties did invade neighbors, but we’re talking about the modern, post-Qing, Han-dominated China, as the original Chinese comment was also.

          During the Nationalist led China 1912-1949 and during the communist led China 1949-present what “war of conquest” has China waged?

          Again:

          -China’s involvement in Korea was backing up one of the sides, not invading.

          -China entered Vietnam in 1979 as a warning against Russia. After they had sent their message the retreated over the border.

          -Small border clashes with India also cannot be consider as “invasions” or “conquests” by any stretch of the imagination.

          So in fact the Chinese comment didn’t amount to “dumbassery” as dumbledore would have us believe.

          • Terrik

            The question was about Han Chinese. Not only about the current government. “Han” China extends much farther back than Mao.

          • Probotector

            Yeah, but that would cause his argument to collapse.

          • Chom

            If what would make my argument fall down was the Han in the pre-20th century era, then why are you banging on about Tibet which you clearly have no clue about?

            I never argued about invasions during any of the dynasties. Tibet was brought up by you, so that’s what I debated.

            btw, everyone thinks your so cool that you can write “Tibet” in Chinese… NOT.

          • Probotector

            Again, you think I have ‘no clue about it’ only because you disagree with me.

            My response to his post was in relation to what you and he had discussed, not us, so bringing up our Tibet debate is irrelevant.

            I don’t think anyone thinks I’m cool for typing Xizang in Chinese; do you think everyone thinks you’re cool because your typed it ‘your’ instead of ‘you’re’?

          • Chom

            OMG, if they don’t think YOU’RE cool for YOUR Chinese, they most certainly think YOU’RE cool for being a grammar Nazi :p

            “My response to his post was in relation to what you and he had discussed, not us, so bringing up our Tibet debate is irrelevant.”

            Sounded like you hopping on his bandwagon to be honest.

            Do you notice how I address all of your points when I reply, whereas you conveniently do not address many of my points. hmm…yes.. look that up in “debating 101″ and see who that points to winning the debate.

          • Probotector

            OMG! You have a stupid answer for everything.

          • Chom

            If indeed the original Chinese comment meant Han Chinese even through the dynasties, then as I said “No doubt certain dynasties did invade neighbors” including Han.

          • taikongren

            So by your criteria:
            America joined WW2 because it was attacked first
            Entered Vietnam at the request of the internationally recognized legitimate government of Vietnam
            Entered Entered at the request of the internationally recognized legitimate government of Vietnam.

            Entered Iraq the first time at the request of Government of Kuwait which was invaded.

            Every side can always make justifications like this.

          • Chom

            If every side can always make such justifications, why did you careful only mention the U.S entering Iraq “the first time”?

            That you didn’t also mention the 2003 invasion of Iraq shows such a justification could not be made in that case and was in a totally different context.

            So yes, I think the U.S backing up its allies in those cases could certainly not be considered “invading” or “wars of conquest”; although many others, including Iraq 2003 could.

          • KStyleBlue

            I don’t have time to read all of the posts here.

            Every single war in the history of man has been a “humanitarian war.” In every invaded country, there is at least one group of people that has benefited from anarchy and the downfall of the current government. Even the Nazi and Japanese invasions of WW2 were justifiable wars.

            Justifications are trash. China invaded Vietnam. China invaded India. China invaded South Korea. Yes, if you compare China to America, China is more “peaceful.” But when compared to the world as a whole: Look at post 1949 Luxemburg, Canada, Sweden, Mexico, Brazil, Greenland, Iceland, Poland, Morocco, Japan, Australia: China is one of the most aggressive nations on the planet.

          • Chom

            Agreed. war is war, I’m not arguing with that. But Korea, Vietnam, were not wars to “invade” or take over those countries.

            Border disputes with India go both ways. There are areas both in China and India that the other disputes, but neither country seriously ever intended to conquer each other, and I don’t see them letting these disputes get in the way of their relationship in the future.

          • KStyleBlue

            You seem to not understand what an “invasion” is.

            An invasion is a military offensive in which large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively enter territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself.

            Also, the US did not fight a “war of conquest (take over)” in Iraq 2003 or in Afghanistan. The idea of turning these territories into territories of the United States was never an objective – and the withdrawal of troops from these nations is evidence of such.
            In fact, there have been essentially no “wars on conquest” by any of the developing or developed nations since 1949.

          • Chom

            Exactly, Korea, Vietnam didn’t have the “objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory”

            I never said the the Iraq 2003 was a “war of conquest. I only pointed to someone that it was far different than the U.S entering Vietnam where it was backing up an ally.

            Having said that, in fact in both Iraq and Aghanistan there are still U.S troops.

          • KStyleBlue

            India: Re-establishing control of a territory.

            Korea: Liberating North Korea which had been taken over by S.Korea / USA. Remember? China wanted to maintain a buffer state between China and the west..

            Vietnam: Gaining concessions. With an end objective of getting the government of Vietnam to develop closer relations with China instead of USSR.

          • Chom

            100% agree, but I would still say those are very different than invading with the intention of conquering a country.

            RE “buffer state”, again I agree. When I tried to explain how the British empire tried to use Nepal, Tibet etc as buffer states around India, they didn’t seem to understand.

          • KStyleBlue

            Yes, PRC has not invaded a nation with the intentions of conquering a territory. Same with most other developed / developing nations. In fact, such a war is against international law, and is suicide for any modern nation.

            Than do you agree with my original point that: China is significantly less aggressive than the US since 1949. But one of the most aggressive nations on the planet when compared to the other 260+ nations?

          • Chom

            I would agree. However, how many nations in the world can afford to be aggressive without being wiped out? For its size, population, and increasing wealth and power, it is very defensive. Only time will tell if that will change for the worse.

            Being relatively passive for its size internationally, does not say anything about internal violence though. You could say its almost the opposite of the U.S: Violent and oppressive within its borders and relatively non-aggressive externally.

          • KStyleBlue

            I’d like to point out:

            If you just include the factors of population, power, wealth: Than the list still becomes: USA, Russia, UK, China, France, India, Canada, Australia, Italy, Japan, Germany, Brazil. If you compare to this list post 1949, China is still rates as “aggressive” or at best, “Average.”

            There are many factors leading to aggression: Education,
            hostility/friendliness of neighbors, success of foreign policy, access to resources, internal stability, international power, etc.
            But if you take a nuanced view of aggression – There is no particularly “aggressive nation” and no particularly “defensive nation.” All humans are competitive – There is no gene that makes one particular group of people to be more aggressive than the other.

            The only way to debate this issue and come to any solid conclusions is to take a simplistic view of aggression. Which clearly points to China being aggressive.

          • Anon E Moose

            Sure they weren’t.

            Korean War started as an invasion by the North, supported and supplied by the USSR. A defensive reaction

            Vietnam ? The North had their own country after the French left but not being satisfied they started a low level guerrilla campaign against the south. Once again a defensive reaction.

            Afghanistan ? We were attacked on 9/11

            Iraq ? No WMDs but plenty of GMDs (Graves of Mass Disappearance). Bosnia/KosovA interventions justified by GMDs.

            As for the US pretending to be a World Conqueror, ridiculous, it’s army is less than 500,000. To occupy the entire world would be in the tens/hundreds of millions.

            The U.S. is too small, it’s not an army of occupation.

          • GiannaFox

            stop making america look good.
            they invaded iraq, afghanistan, north korea, vietnam, laos and are soon going to invade syria.

            peace from germany :)

          • POS

            He’s not excusing America he is simply pointing out the flawed logic and double standards which the Sino-apologists use to white wash their own imperialism and colonialism.

            So what is your take on a dictator using Sarin to gas 1000+ of his citizens to death? The USA is the bad guy in this situation? What are you smoking there in German?

          • KStyleBlue

            I apologize if you misunderstood me:

            America is currently the most aggressive nation on the planet. I consider the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the failed negotiations with N. Korea and Iran to be evidence of the terrific failure of American foreign policy during the Bush Administration.

            While America is not currently considering invasion of Syria as an option (we are only contemplating air strikes) – I hope America does not go to war in Syria.

            ~I urge my representatives to vote for peace – from America.

          • Anon E Moose

            Whereas Germany tried to take over the ENTIRE WORLD. Twice.

            Good thing we stopped you, you’re like a bunch of murderous homicidal lemmings.

          • POS

            You can’t apply the logic that governs Chinese imperialism to the West, thats not considered playing fair by the Sino-apologists :P

        • Kai

          It’s kinda fallacious to suggest the “56 minorities” were invaded and conquered by the Han. You might be able to argue a bit for some but I feel that isn’t giving enough due credit to the very real historical pheonomenon (not just in China) of integration and assimilation between neighboring tribes/cultures, which is qualitatively very different from the modern concept of one nation-state waging an organized military and political conquest of another nation-state.

          I understand what you’re trying to say (cuz I’d point to something similar), but I think you also recognize what Chom is saying too, yeah? The original Chinese comment is obnoxious of course.

        • POS
          • Chom

            Great graphic. Notice how today’s China is smaller than in the Qing dynasty and hasn’t expanded. That proves that as a nation state, China has not had an expansionist policy.

          • Jing

            China is still a civilization state.

          • Chom

            Interesting talk, I’ve seen it before, but China is by definition a nation state and recognized as such.

          • Anon E Moose

            Civilization as well.

            Read your Huntington & Clash of Civilizations

          • Anon E Moose

            To paraphrase Ghandi:

            “Chinese Civilization ? That would be a good idea”

          • POS

            Thats amazing logic! Except for the fact they are trying to steal an entire sea from South East Asia, islands from Japan and Korea, and a significant chunk of India (Russia is next after their population declines in the next 50 years). You’ll notice one thing about Chinese imperialism in expansion followed by contraction followed by expansion. We seem to be entering the latter phase again.

          • Chom

            “a significant chunk of India”

            You call a few disputed border areas “a significant chunk of India”? btw, the border issues are in both directions, there are parts of China which India also wants.

            “trying to steal an entire sea from South East Asia, islands from Japan and Korea”

            This is simplistic to say the least. First Taiwan is also claiming whatever China is, would Taiwan claim those areas if they were not part of the Republic of China prior to 1949? or are you telling me Taiwan has the military power to “steal” them?

            Second, there are other disputes between South Korea and Japan that have nothing to do with China. If China was intent on “stealing” everything why not also put their hat in the ring for those? This should still you that what they are claiming does have some legitimacy.

            In all these cases, China has also not used force until now, nor have the other countries.

          • POS

            You don’t seem to actually know that much about modern East Asian international relations and history do you? China hasn’t used force until now, what planet are you on? I won’t even mention the numerous people killed by the PRC during and after being colonized by China, we’ll just look at a few state to state conflicts:

            China has used force plenty, it invaded the Paracel Islands and killed Vietnamese in the process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracel_Islands

            And even more recently Chinese has grabbed land violently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_South_Reef_Skirmish

            Chinese imperialism is as simplistic as this map which the PRC laughably tries to show to the world with a straight face: http://www.interaksyon.com/assets/images/articles/interphoto_1335515824.jpg

            Thats just to the south, not to mention the PRC’s conflict with Japan over Senkaku and claims to Korean islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socotra_Rock) and that PRC citizens frequently trespass into Korean waters and commit violent acts that cost the lives of more than a few Korean coastguard personnel (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/world/asia/chinese-fisherman-kills-south-korean-coast-guardsman.html?_r=0)

            And I’d hardly call 83,743 km2 of territory in Arunachal Pradesh a minor chunk of land: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arunachal_Pradesh

            Please learn a little about East Asia (by your own admission you can;t even read Chinese, and I’m guessing other Asian languages) and then make some informed comments.

          • Chom

            You are right, I do not have deep knowledge of the islands issue. I was under the impression from listening to all the China-bashing over the Islands these past few years that they supposedly only became interested recently because of natural resources? Therefore when I said “China has not used force until now” I was referring to the very recent disputes. Apart from some fishing boats banging into each other and the Japanese coast guard firing water, these have not been any clashes and I don’t see there being any in the near to medium tern either.

            A significant point over the islands is, does China have a reasonable argument in each case? If it did not, and was simply claiming islands that simply never belonged to China, I find it hard to see why Taiwan would also claim them. That in ever case Taiwan also has the same claims shows that there is some substance. If there were not, why would Taiwan claim them? They are not a superpower, and do not have the ability militarily; yet they still feel the need to claim these Islands. To me that shows that China (PRC and ROC) have legitimate claims over the Islands.

            When you have sworn enemies of the CPC making the same claims as them, it cannot be simply put down to expansionism. These past 1-2 years have seen groups from both Taiwan and Hong Kong planting their respective flags on the Diaoyu islands. They are certainly no friends of the CPC yet are strangely on their side in all these disputes. If this was just CPC expansionism, would this be happening?

            Also, I never said Arunachal Pradesh was a minor chunk of land. Don’t get into the habit of trying to put words in someone’s mouth. I said whatever land China disputes with India was certainly did NOT constitute “a significant chunk of India” which is what you claimed. There is a big difference between “a significant chunk of India” and “a significant chunk of land”, You might have got away with the latter if that’s what you would have said instead.

          • POS

            Go tell some Indians that Arunachal Pradesh isn’t a significant chunk of India. Let me know how that goes for you.

            So you admit you were completely wrong about China not using force in the island disputes. Thats good, when one doesn’t know about a situation one should have the modesty to admit as much. You should also be aware that the aggressor in 99% of these incidents has been elements of the PRC state apparatus.

            Looking at the 9 Dash Line, attached above, you can say with a straight face that that looks like a legitimate claim to the seas of South East Asia? No we all know it is completely and utterly preposterous, a thinly veiled imperialist grab is putting it tactfully.

            In sum China has used force in pursuing its expansionist imperialist policies both historically and contemporarily. It has taken lands from different ethnic nationalities in a manner that cannot be significantly differentiated from that of Western imperial colonialism. You display very limited critical thinking abilities, looking to apply the most critical lens to America and the West while giving China a pass and willingly peddle government sponsored historical revisionism. I wonder what your motivation is? Perhaps another ABC disillusioned with life and the West and willing to glorify the mysterious motherland he knows very little about?

          • Chom

            Again you choose to ignore whatever you want. What have you got to say about why Taiwan makes all the same claims as the P.R.C does?

          • POS

            Taiwan claims Mongolia technically but in reality they make no real effort to enforce claims that even they know are basically absurd and null. They can’t drop the claims because that would be seen as an effort to secede by the mainland. But pray tell when is the last time Taiwanese made an incursion into the Indian side of the LOC, when have Taiwanese killed Vietnamese and occupied an island in the seas of South East Asia? You bring out an obvious straw man and think you somehow made a point?

            So again look at the 9 dash map and tell me that it is not utter imperialistic rubbish.

            Also let me know how much work it is to systematically login to 4 separate accounts and go through an entire thread down voting comments by one person… you have too much free time.

          • POS

            Also please tell me the proper government approved phraseology for systematically wiping out people and occupying there lands. Does that fall under assimilation of border people? Really I am interested because I don’t know how to properly apply apologist tactics to this kind of situation. Or perhaps the revisionist route is better, pretend like they never existed? But then you have pesky Western anthropologists and archaeologists with their strange theories that non-Han people once occupied said lands—- awwww this historical revisionism is harder than I thought!
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_Khanate#Fall

          • Anon E Moose

            They saw what happened when Iraq tried to claims it’s “19th province”

            They should also remember Germany’s attempts to “annex” the Sudentenland, Poland, and parts of France.

            Hopefully they will heed the warnings of modern history when it comes to the Free and Independant Island of T**wan.

          • POS

            Lol, 4 thumbs down within a few minutes when no other comments on this part of the thread have more than 2-3 votes either way, almost as if someone was logging in on multiple accounts to pad some votes~~ if I was a conspiracy theorist I would almost be tempted to say it feels wumaoish?

          • wafflestomp

            I gave him a thumbs up :)

          • POS

            Next account, need to even these numbers up :D

          • Anon E Moose

            Tibet: According to the PLA’s own documentation, 1 MILLION “Bandits” were eradicated.

            Out of a total Tibetan population of 10 million, that pretty much amounts to a campaign of ethnic cleansing & genocide.

            Fortunately there’s the vast Chinese history (5,000 years worth actually) of the Chinese running home to Mommy when things don’t turn out right, which is often.

            How soon the moderne Chinese Empire will collapse, we don’t know for sure, but I’m hoping sooner than later.

          • wafflestomp

            China is evening trying to get in on the Arctic action.

          • POS

            Weird Waffle your account heading read as “Chom” for a few minutes. It is best to change IP addresses and browsers otherwise Disqus gets confused.

          • Kai

            Please don’t pad votes. It’s dishonest and against our comment policy. You guys know it too. Knock it off.

          • POS

            In your above statement you have pretty much conceded that you are wrong and that China does have an expansionist policy.

          • Anon E Moose

            CCCP Suggestion Box:

            Since ancient East Asian nomads are the precursor of the Great Han Civilization and since these same illustriousness ancestors crossed the Bering Straits to colonize both North AND South America, the PRC rightly owns and lays claims to the ENTIRE WESTERN HEMISPHERE.

            I’ll take my award money in Dollars, thank you.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            They invaded Vietnam and Korea, took over Tibet, Xinjiang, inner Mongolia and Manchuria. Oh and they drew a big sagging dick over the South China Sea and called that theirs too. China is the world’s most expansionist country since the fall of the 3rd Reich.

          • GiannaFox

            “They invaded Vietnam and Korea, took over Tibet, Xinjiang, inner Mongolia and Manchuria”

            After 2nd WW or before?

            Before 2nd ww, no the Manchus did. Tibet, Xinjiang, inner Mongolia and Manchuria got fully integrated.
            After 2nd ww, Vietnam had to be taught a lesson, Korea was saved by China and Manchuria, inner Mongolia were already
            under Chinese banner after the civil war.

            Tibet and Xinjiang …Well, Tibet was a slave society, so yeah, it was right that China liberated Tibet :P (isn’t this the argument America uses since the 2nd ww to fight wars? :P)

          • POS

            Korea was saved by China? What and ignorant and down right fradulent statement. Koreans have suffered indescribably horrors and death on a large scale because f China’s proping of the Kim family mafia?

            I bet Koreans are sing China’s praises as they were starved by the millions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine

            Or when they were sent to gulags and death camps: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/20/n-korea-escapees-tell-of-atrocities-in-labor-camps/?page=all

            You obviously know nothing about the subject you speak about. For a German you are incredibly ignorant. Probably a Nazi apologist also.

          • Anon E Moose

            USSR – More Russians killed by CCCP than by Nazi Germany. 50-60 million ?

            PRC – More Chinese killed by CCP than by the Japanese, 30-35 million ?

            N Korea – 2 million starved to death. At least the Koreans have taught their Chinese “Elder Brother” some respect and manners for the dearly departed, namely not cooking and EATING them like in the Great Leap Forward.

            Cambodia – Khmer Rouge: “only” 1-2 million dead.

            Oh yeah, and during all this mass slaughter, Saddam Hussein and the Ethiopian Red terror used the services of the Bestest & Greatest Secret Police on earth, STASI.

            Hitler would have been proud of those “Ossies”.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            Gotta laugh at “Vietnam had to be taught a lesson”. What lesson was that? How fast Chinese solders can run away? Hahaha!

          • TJDubs

            The PRC was butt-hurt that the Vietnamese army deposed the beloved Khmer Rouge. The lesson: You dethrone our pet mass murder party, we invade your country, kill your citizens, burn their farmland, and then run away.

          • Anon E Moose

            (* Ahem *)

            It’s called ‘Advancing to the rear (and to victory).

            The Chinese military, admirers of all things Gallic & French.

          • Anon E Moose

            Vietnam ?

            And what was the lesson that China “taught” ?

            That the PLA can’t fight ?

            40,000 dead in only a 6 month long and ultimately unsuccessful campaign.

          • Eidolon

            They did repeatedly invade Vietnam, but Korea had not been invaded by the Chinese except at the behest of Korean governments for the last 1,000+ years. They did invade Tibet and Xinjiang. But Inner Mongolia was largely the product of Inner Mongolian princes selling out, while Manchuria was signed over to the ROC by the Manchus when they abdicated.

            The fact that you put these six cases together shows a blatant ignorance of history. They are very different in nature, and I never get tired of correcting people about just how perfectly legal the Chinese colonization of Manchuria was.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            Japans colonizing of Korea, Manchuria, and Taiwan was also perfectly legal. So were the foreign concessions, 100% legal. Shanghai, Xiamen, Qingdao, Hong Kong are all legally not Chinese.

          • Eidolon

            Japan’s colonization of Korea, Manchuria, and Taiwan were on the backs of military aggression, which though technically legal around WW 2, is, by contemporary standards, illegal and immoral.

            However, Chinese colonization of Manchuria was on the back of active Qing policy. The Qing was ruled by the original owners of Manchuria – the Manchus. In the face of Russian and Japanese aggression, they encouraged Chinese migration into the region in order to bolster it against expansionism by the latter states. When the Qing abdicated, these same original owners of Manchuria bequeathed the entire territory on the ROC.

            To draw a parallel between this and Japan’s military invasion of China is both disingenuous and outright deceptive – a lame and ridiculous attempt at moral equivalence and history revisionism rather than insight.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            “When the Qing abdicated, these same original owners of Manchuria bequeathed the entire territory on the ROC.” And so that means what exactly? That Manchuria is part of the country of Taiwan?

            Anyway Manchukuo was headed by a Qing emperor, the Manchukuo armed forces were staffed by Han and Manchu solders and fought against the KMT and CCP.

            Either Russia or Japan were going to have Manchuria for their own. The Qing’s horse didn’t even make it to the race track.

            And as parallels go, is there any difference between China’s puppet Autonomous Region in Tibet and Manchukou? Well, besides the fact the people of Manchukuo were a helluvalot better off than Tibetans are today. More advanced, richer, and freer. But you keep sticking up for commie cocksuckers in Beijing. Go right ahead.

          • Eidolon

            There is no difference between Japan’s invasion of Manchuria and China’s invasion of Tibet, save that one side was on the losing side of WW 2 while the other was on the winning side. Yet, as history has shown time and time again, that is normally enough for territory to switch hands permanently.

            Nice strawman though, given that I never argued that China’s invasion of Tibet was moral, though in both the Chinese and Japanese cases the legality of the invasions ended up being endorsed by the rest of the world shortly after.

            Might makes right. It runs in the species.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            Careful… You aren’t supporting Chinese make believe history…

            Anyway, my position is that “China” should be limited to Henan. Everything else in the PRC should be something else, separate and free.

            As for Manchuria/Manchukuo, it would have been much better off the past 60 years and today if it had stayed a Japanese puppet state. Less people would have died and they’d not be 100 years behind where they were when the Japanese left.

          • Eidolon

            Your position is irrelevant. What ‘China’ is is best decided by those who live in China. You don’t live in China, and therefore morally, legally, and logically you have no say in the matter.

            Also, there are concepts of greater importance to people than whether they are ‘behind’ on technology and welfare. Such superficial markers reveal a deep seated ignorance in your personal ideology and a failure to understand the human psyche.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            My position is not irrelevant. Without a position, how can one have an opinion? And yeah, I do live in China, for many years. If you lived here you’d know that morality, legality, and logically are three things that do not exist in the Middle Kingdom.

            The Chinese are behind because they are behind. Chinese culture existed for thousands of years and never discovered modernity. Have contributed nothing meaningful to the world we have today. And insist on living 1000′s of years in the past mentally and organizationally.

            You claim to know history. I suggest you read “Tombstone”, “The Party”, “A death in the Lucky Holiday Hotel”, and “Civilization: The west and the Rest”, “The Tragedy of Liberation”, and “The Opium Wars” (by Julia Lovell”).

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            “When the Qing abdicated, these same original owners of Manchuria bequeathed the entire territory on the ROC.”

            Right. So Manchuria belongs to the country of Taiwan. Actually, all of China proper blogs to Taiwan if legal agreements were enforced. The CCP are illegal occupiers.

            “To draw a parallel between this and Japan’s military invasion of China is both disingenuous and outright deceptive – a lame and ridiculous attempt at moral equivalence and history revisionism rather than insight.”

            The only difference between Japan’s military invasion of Manchuria and China’s military invasion and subsequent occupation of Tibet et.al, is that the inhabitants of Manchukuo were much better off than than the Tibetans are. Hell, they had their own country, military, and Manchu king. A pretty sweet deal. And lets not forget, Manchukou had more international recognition as a real state than the PRC did after its establishment.

          • Eidolon

            You are obviously a stranger to international politics and laws. Civil wars, which are waged between factions within the same country, are designated within international law to effect the transfer of state authority to the winner, provided there is one. The continued legitimacy of the ROC government is recognized by practically no one, and so the countries that fail to recognize it are legally bound to treat the PRC as though it took over the ROC’s entire territory, authority, and legitimacy. The PRC’s ownership of former ROC lands is, therefore, completely legal within both modern and pre-modern international laws.

            By contrast, while Japan’s occupation of Manchuria was legal in the pre-modern international system, its defeat and subsequent surrender of these territories was also legal. Thus, through the chain of legality leading from the Qing’s decision to open Manchuria to Han migration, to the abdication transfer of Qing territory to the ROC, to the capture of Manchuria by Japan, to the defeat of Japan by the Allies, to the return of Manchuria to the ROC, and to the PRC’s defeat of the ROC and its present ownership of Manchuria, is all flawlessly legal.

            There’s no weak link in the PRC’s control over Manchuria. Not even self determination, because there is no coherent ethnic state in Manchuria left to self determine. The demographic changes brought about by the decision of the Qing government to open Manchuria to Han migration has ensured that ethnic Manchus are a majority in no well defined territory. The consequence is that Manchuria is both legally and morally a territory of the PRC, hence why no scholar even bothers to make a case against PRC ownership there.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            I know I know… So what. You gonna write a book or something? The only reason the PRC is legit today is because Western countries slowly sold out to their greed for the Chinese market and made concessions to the Commies in Beijing. During the Korean war they should have just nuked them and been done with it. No one was recognizing the PRC then and they were fighting UN forces. Now they are permanent members with veto power. Nukes would have been better…

            But hey, we are getting off topic, and you never even addressed the majority of that post:

            “The only difference between Japan’s military invasion of Manchuria and China’s military invasion and subsequent occupation of Tibet et.al, is that the inhabitants of Manchukuo were much better off than than the Tibetans are. Hell, they had their own country, military, and Manchu king. A pretty sweet deal. And lets not forget, Manchukou had more international recognition as a real state than the PRC did after its establishment.”

            My opinion on all things international and political may not agree with your version of history, but they are founded in history no less. At uni I studied international relations and Chinese history. Since that time I have continued to study China, have read hundreds of books and thousands of news articles on China, and my opinion has changed dramatically. A lot of what you have to say are things I used to say before I knew better.

          • Eidolon

            “At uni I studied international relations and Chinese history. Since that time I have continued to study China, have read hundreds of books and thousands of news articles on China, and my opinion has changed dramatically. A lot of what you have to say are things I used to say before I knew better.”

            I sincerely doubt that, but then again, the human capacity for not learning is infinite. This applies, for example, to your comments about nuking China and being done with it – that was never in the plan. The plan, courtesy of MacArthur, was to tactically drop ~30 nukes on targets in North Korea, the Yalu border, and Chinese airfields in the region, after which he proposed to irradiate a portion of Korea for the next 60-120 years in order to form a buffer against the communists.

            The bulk of the radiation would have fallen on the Koreans. I imagine the only effect it ultimately would have had was a much higher cancer rate in Korea, a long lasting hatred by Koreans of the US, and an even closer partnership between the Soviets and China, for back then the Soviets and the Chinese were working together precisely to prevent American nuclear hegemony, and the Soviets were still behind. This, in turn, would have led to a faster nuclearization of China, and a longer Cold War.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            Uh huh. The human capacity for not reading what was written is amazing… Plan, what plan? I mentioned no “plan”. I just think it would be better than China today with a permanent UN seat and veto power. Who wouldn’t agree with that?

            And I was thinking the Nukes should have landed pretty much right on Mao and his band of merry idiots in Beijing.

          • Eidolon

            Except, of course, that there was no way to strike Mao from the air, given that one of the priorities of the PRC leadership in those days was deep underground bunkers and there were no spy satellites to tell you where they were. Had political assassination been so easy, the US would never have had to declare war on Japan and Germany.

            Nukes also would not have prevented China from holding a permanent UN seat and veto power, and it’s obvious by now that you’re trolling for the sake of it.

          • http://www.kalanstar.com/ KopyKatKiller

            Really, no way. Where there is a will there is a way as they say… And yeah, nukes would have prevented the PRC from being in the UN at all. That seat would have remained with the ROC and the CCP would have been nothing more than a terrorist group, which is what it is… perhaps a terrorist cult.

          • avalidusername

            Great graphic. Notice China is larger now than in the Zhou dynasty and has vastly expanded. That proves that as a nation state, China has had an extremely expansionist policy.

          • Anon E Moose

            No, it means they always get kicked out of whatever they’re invaded.

            It also means they are constantly squabbling and put their own local selfish interests above the nation.

            Are you feeling national pride now ?

      • Probotector

        西藏

        • Chom

          Tibet? Can you point me to any source that shows that any country ever recognized Tibet as a country? Even between 1912 and 1949 when nationalists were in disarray, no country recognized Tibet as a country. During that time, despite not having the wherewithal to actively govern Tibet the Nationalists still saw it as an integral part of China.

          There are also many videos you can look at where the U.S introduces Tibet as part of the Nationalist led China during world war 2, China then being an ally of the U.S. It is not until the communists took over that this was disputed by the U.S in any way.

          If the Taiwan government ruled all of China tomorrow they would have the exact same stance on Tibet as the current government has.

          • Probotector

            ‘China’s provisional President Yuan Shikai sent a telegram to the 13th Dalai Lama, restoring his earlier titles. The Dalai Lama spurned these titles, replying that he “intended to exercise both temporal and ecclesiastical rule in Tibet.”‘

            Melvyn C. Goldstein, The Snow Lion and the Dragon: China, Tibet, and the Dalai Lama, (1997), University of California Press, p. 31.

          • Chom

            That, if indeed accurate, still shows nothing. I’m sure if I looked hard enough I could find a similar letter from some governor of Texas wanting to rule Texas as country. Doesn’t mean that it is.

            Again: “Can you point me to any source that shows that any country ever recognized Tibet as a country? “

          • Probotector

            I don’t think you read it properly. The telegram came from Yuan Shikai and was sent to the Dalai Lama saying he recognises Tibetan independence. It was not a petition for independence from the Dalai Lama to Yuan Shikai.

            “Again: “Can you point me to any source that shows that any country ever recognized Tibet as a country? ”

            I just did. Just read it properly.

          • taikongren

            Can you point to any source that shows China was recognized as a country?

            I mean sure, you will find dignitaries, ambasadors, letters, correspondence, etc. You would also find that in Tibet’s history.

            And let’s say it was not recognized by other’s as a country… invasion does not have to mean an invasion of a “recognized” country. The islands in South Pacific which had indigenous people’s were not recognized as nations, yet were still invaded by Japan.

          • Chom

            Are you for real?

            As for your last paragraph, Tibet either was or was not ever recognized as a country by any country. Instead of “let’s say” I suggest you either agree or disagree as to whether is was or not. If agree it was not, then I’ll be happy to address your question.

          • fabulous

            I’d say taikongren is for real. Native Americans didn’t have their own land recognized as a country but they sure as shootin’ were invaded. Spain invaded the land of some nice people in South America; I’m not sure that any of them had their land recognized as a country. Everybody invaded Africa. Brits invaded Australia. Brits invaded their island-mates. Romans invaded Brits. People have been invading people for years. It doesn’t matter if they look the same; invading is invading.

          • Chom

            I meant are you for real with your question “Can you point to any source that shows China was recognized as a country?” First off ony internationally recognized countries can become full members of the U.N

            Repeat: As for your last paragraph, Tibet either was or was not ever recognized as a country by any country. Instead of “let’s say” I suggest you either agree or disagree as to whether is was or not. If agree it was not, then I’ll be happy to address your question.

          • taikongren

            You interpreted the Chinese poster’s question to refer to post-revolution recognition and seemed to stipulate that recognition comes only from modern nation-states and the UN. By this definition, I’m not sure that China was a recognized country when they went into Tibet.

            This criteria is artificial, self-serving, and useless BTW.

          • Chom

            “seemed to stipulate that recognition comes only from modern nation-states and the UN”

            I mentioned the U.N only as one example, never mentioned it was the “only” way.

          • fabulous

            I’m not sure who I’m talking to anymore. Is everyone seeing two firebert5s?

            But when I said that taikongren is for real I actually was referring to his first two sentences; then I went on to elaborate on his second point.

          • Mateusz82

            Imperialism is only bad when Europeans do it. When China uses invasion and colonization to create lebensraum for the master race, then it’s totally cool.

          • Eurotrash

            Exactly.

          • Can’t remember my username

            Quote Chom ChinaSmack:

            Tibet? Can you point me to any source that shows that any country ever recognized Tibet as a country?

            Quote People’s Daily, Aprill 8, 2008:

            ‘Tibet has never been an independent state. No government of any country in the world has ever recognised Tibet as an independent state. ”

            Nicely done Chom, parroting the People’s Daily in a strawman to deflect from the original argument. What’s even more amusing is that it has aparently worked. Keep fighting the good fight protecting the honour of the sacred motherland, Chom. Jiayou!

          • Chom

            By your thinking, if I say the sky is blue, then I’m obviously a Nazi because Hitler also said the sky was blue.

            You’re actually clutching at so many straws its embarrassing. Looks like I’m not the one with a habit of reading the People’s Daily.

          • Can’t remember my username

            You are using argumentum ad absurdum and ad hominem also you have yet to make any rational reply in regard to the argument

            Originally the argument was about who has China invaded in history. Meanwhile you have attempted to derail it by turning it to Han Chinese and then instigating some pointless strawman in demanding to know which country ever recognised Tibet.

            Your strawman of “point me to any source that shows that any country ever recognized Tibet as a country?” comes straight out of a People’s Daily editorial and is the current CPC line. It still used today as a favoured means, by certain kinds of individuals, to turn arguments away from the topic at hand and to show they possess some sort of critical thinking ability, which going by your latest reply, you appear to lack.

            Plus you owe me 5 quid for Godwin’s law.

            As you like posing questions not relevant to the topic, here’s one for you:

            How many Tibetans have been murdered by the PLA since the destruction of the Tibetan army at the battle of Chamdo and the subsequent invasion of Tibet in 1950?

            1. Over 1 million?
            2. Over 2 million?
            3. Over 3 million?

            Take your time.

          • Chom

            Good job shooting yourself in the foot. Yes, indeed I did use argumentum ad absurdum, which if you actually knew what it meant is NOT good for you. argumentum ad absurdum is what you use to show just how ABSURD a line of thinking is.

            I was never debating “who has China invaded in history”, please read my other posts. I acknowledged several times invasions during various dynasties.

            Where did I use any “ridiculous qualifiers”? If you knew your history you would know it was never China’s intention to conquer Vietnam.

            None of the numbers above I think. Do you have a figure? You seem to think that if someone makes an argument that seems in favor of China, it automatically means they support them in everything.

            If you want real straw men, better look elsewhere in this discussion where you an others have attempted to put words on my mouth, to create your strawman.

            I’m done with this. If you are more than a troll you seem like, I look forward to your thoughts via e-mail: chinacabinet2014 at gmail dot com

          • POS

            I want to know the answer, I’m guessing more than 2 million~~

          • SOP

            5maos dont grow on trees you know.

        • Eurotrash

          LOL! Stop beating that horse. It’s dead.

          • Probotector

            I don’t really care about it either, but he seemed so concerned about an answer to that question.

          • Chom

            Yet you didn’t give an answer did you? You didn’t respond to any of my points either. Easier for you to go along with the general propaganda without having to think, rather than actually researching anything properly.

          • Probotector

            I just gave you a quote from an historical publication, complete with references. How is that not “actually researching anything properly”?

          • Chom

            LOL…Do you consider a book titled ” The Snow Lion and the Dragon” to be a serious “historical publication”? Of course anything that is published can be consider as such, including any “Playboy” magazine.

            For most people however, dealing with history, such a book cannot be considered as evidence. There are many books that take the opposite view of Tibet but are just as biased.

            Indeed I didn’t misread your quote, but rather misunderstood. There was no indication as to what titles he was referring to when he wrote “restoring his earlier titles”. I’ll take it from you though that it is some way meant Tibet was independent???

            Even so, without looking in detail at what you reference, it seems to be one telegram for the “provisional president”. To be official policy, I would presume far more than a telegram would be needed.

            If again the KMT really recognized Tibet as a separate country, one would presume the U.S wouldn’t say it was a part of China as late as 1945.

            The the “provisional president” you referenced, Yuan Shikai was not even part of the KMT, and although you call him “President” acted more like just another emperor, so much so that “Sun Yat-sen fled to Japan in November 1913, and called for a Second Revolution, this time against Yuan Shikai.”

            Sun Yat-sen, the KMT and the CPC all considered Tibet as a part of China and the KMT does so till this day.

            That the book you reference would use a telegram from a rouge “provisional president” as proof of Tibet as a country just goes to show how much of a “reliable” historical document it is.

          • Probotector

            So you’re decrying the validity of this source simply because you don’t like the title?!. Wtf? Also, what I quoted from this book is simply the statement of a fact, which supported by a citation of a primary source from the time. How does that make it biased?

            There are other sources of the time that prove that China legitimised Tibetan independence, such as the Three Point Agreement. Have you looked that one up?

            In any case, you asked me to name one nation that recognised an independent Tibet, and I gave you one. The govt. of China under Yuan Shikai, recognised the independence of Tibet, as proven by the quote of this telegram, which was written by Yuan himself at the time. If a monograph or historical textbook is published, and has been in publication for 16 years, as this one has, it’s not going to contain lies or verifiably inaccurate information.

            You’re also saying that “That the book you reference would use a telegram from a rouge “provisional president” as proof of Tibet as a country just goes to show how much of a “reliable” historical document it is”

            Um no, not at all. Again, just because, you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Yes Yuan Shikai was an opportunist who proclaimed himself president and then emperor of China, but he was nevertheless the one in authority at the time. The fact that you consider him ‘rogue’ is irrelevant. If anything it shows you’re trying to whitewash history in favour of your own rhetoric.

          • Chom

            The title of anything doesn’t discredit it in and of itself, but it is not a history book, it is one person’s opinion, backed up with hand-picked facts. Lets just say

            The three point plan your reference, was signed by the Qing dynasty when it was on its knees, what does that prove?

            “Um no, not at all. Again, just because, you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.”

            Its not that I don’t like it. Its that if the book you talk about had a serious case for Tibet as a country, one telegram from Yuan Shikai, isn’t exactly very strong.

            And again, why would the U.S introduce Tibet as an integral part of China in 1945 if it was an independent country. No country, not even Britain recognized it as such.

          • http://www.youtube.com/meis Jing

            Just passing by…

            invasion =X= expansion

            what do u guys think?

          • POS

            In China they seem to think that rephrasing the verbology ameliorates their fairly obvious imperialist history. They didn’t invade, they “explored the frontier”. They didn’t colonize, they “assimilated”.

          • Jing

            Well, that was the past and it was the norm, in Euro too. Can’t change the fact that I’m a Yue + Han + whatever DNAs = Canto

          • POS

            Yes, there are certainly similar attempts to revise history especially in the US by the American right. But anyone who has been to an American university knows that a critical exam of American history in the norm. I wouldn’t point fingers unless I was perfectly willing to examine my own country with the same (or preferably more) rigor :)

          • Chom

            “I wouldn’t point fingers unless I was perfectly willing to examine my own country with the same (or preferably more) rigor :)”

            Whicah country are you from then? Lets see if you have the right to judge China.

          • POS

            This is called China smack for a reason, its nice that you’d like to diverge from the subject (as seems to happen often when there is any critical analysis of China) but I’m afraid I won’t indulge you. Whats the matter? There is tons of critical analysis of Western nations and their histories, why are you scared to turn a critical eye on China? Why are you so scared man? Double standards. Hypocrisy. That seems to be your currency.

          • Chom

            Can you point out where you saw double standards or hypocrisy from me?

            I’m not diverging from anything, in fact I replied to exactly what you wrote. The question is, what are you scared of? Which country are you from? Could it be that if you let everyone know which country you come from it would show you to be an absolute hypocrite by your own definition vis a vis “I wouldn’t point fingers unless I was perfectly willing to examine my own country with the same (or preferably more) rigor :)”

          • http://www.youtube.com/meis Jing

            The Brits invaded Tibet before the PLA did, for your record.

          • Chom

            umm…not really. What the British empire wanted was a buffer state between India and China, not to make it part of the empire per se. They encouraged Tibet to seek independence. However as I said above, not even Britain recognized Tibet between 1912-1949.

          • Jing

            They want to cut down China, tell me you can’t see Western Imperialism in action. Divide & Conquer 101, mate!

            And oh, “buffer state” LOOOOOOL

          • Chom

            You’re absolutely clueless, are you still in kindergarten? YES, buffer states! Learn something!

          • Jing

            Again. Divide & Conquer 101. Learn something!

          • Kai

            Chom is saying Tibet remained more recognized as part of China than not, that the precense of civil war and division in a nation’s government complicates the authority of Yuan Shikai’s actions as representative of China overall.

            I think Chom is going too far in characterizing and dismissing the material you cite to support your argument, but you’re kinda treating him the same way. If Yuan Shikai can take power and use his authority to recognize Tibet as independent, so can his successors take power and use their authority to recognize Tibet as otherwise. This is a line of argument that is fraught with pitfalls. All it supports is the argument that history is written by the victors.

            A lot of arguments based on “history” are susceptible to this problem, which is why a lot of other arguments are based not on history but on abstract notions of innate human rights to self-determination or whatever.

          • fabulous

            I agree with Kai and I like the way he made his points.

          • Kai

            Hah, love you too.

            PS: Inside joke for those not in the know.

          • Chom

            Thanks Kai. I only ridicule that material, because, if someone is asserting that Tibet was a country that was invaded, I would have thought they would be able to produce more material than that.

            I think many people in Europe/U.S believe Tibet was/is a country, but when asked don’t have any reason why they believe that.

            Saying Tibet has never really been recognized as a sovereign independent country, even between 1912 to 1949 does not necessarily mean I agree/support every action/policy the Chinese government have had in Tibet.

            If someone wants to convince me to change my mind, they’re going to have to do it Chomsky style, with irrefutable evidence.

          • Kai

            Yeah, I understand your gripe, especially with the stereotypical “Free-Tibet” sheeple who haven’t really investigated the issue but seem to proclaim it proudly as some sort of badge of liberalism or something. I enjoy your comments on cS for being filled with more objective information than subjective feelings.

          • Whaddashack

            Well argued point. We could make the same argument for North America, both Canada, and the US. Why aren’t the mainly and typically concerned Europeans not doing anything happening in their own glass house? The way the natives were and are treated is nothing short of appalling. It boggles the mind how these China bashers aren’t getting the hell out of where they are. But then again, I just explain it away that those people are little more than insecure, hateful little trolls. They should lead by example.

          • POS

            Speaking of hateful racist little insecure trolls its Whaddashack! Still trailing around white men with you perverse inferiority complex motivated attraction?

          • POS

            So you are willing to embrace hyper critical accounts of American history but can only parrot official Chinese revisionist lines when it comes to China? Thats called being an ideologue. Congrats, you join a long lineage of biased sheep. Come talk to us once there is a “Peoples History of China”.

          • Chom

            Where do you get the idea that I am always “hyer critical” of American history? I am critical where I think criticism is deserved and can be backed up with facts.

            Does my reply below seem “hyper critical” to you?

            “So yes, I think the U.S backing up its allies in those cases could certainly not be considered “invading” or “wars of conquest”; although many others, including Iraq 2003 could.”

          • Chom

            and far from parroting “official Chinese revisionist lines” if you read above you would have got an inkling that I don’t support some of their policies in Tibet.

            Dismissing someone and saying that they “only parrot official Chinese revisionist lines” only serves to absolve you from having to actually think about what is being said and researching it.

          • POS

            Ok, so you do offer some critical analysis of China! Great, then please dear fellow what policies in Tibet do you not support, and why are these Chinese policies wrong? And in Xinjiang are there policies there you disagree with also? And what of Inner Mongolia? Please deconstruct for us what you see as the flaws of Chinese policy in these regions.

            Also please let us know your opinion of the manner in which these territories, inhabited originally by peoples who are most certainly not Han Chinese, came to be part of the PRC.

            Looking forward to you critical analysis.

          • Chom

            I will as soon as you tell me which country you come from so we can see if you are, by your own definition, hypocritical.

          • POS

            I’ll tell you that as soon as you tell me your ethnic background, I’m pretty sure thats at the root of your bias and historical revisionism, the inability to apply critical thinking to what one see as their ethnic comrades. If you are in fact not a PRC citizen. But really for all I know you could be Rou, Ichiro, etc double/triple posting… Sino-trolls seem to have a habit of doing that.

          • Chom

            I’m Caucasian. So now please oblige with your end of the bargain. Which country are you from?

          • POS

            USA. But I’m African-Canadian on the internet.

          • Chom

            LOL…the U.S. Great. Even Soviet Russia was impressed with how well the U.S government and media brainwashed its population.

            YOUR OWN WORDS:

            “Also please tell me the proper government approved phraseology for systematically wiping out people and occupying there lands. ”

            I presume you meant wiping out the native American’s right? Since you also said..

            “I wouldn’t point fingers unless I was perfectly willing to examine my own country with the same (or preferably more) rigor :)”

            If not then I await your “rigorous” examination of your country in that particular instance. I am sure you are perfectly willing to do so.

            What you linked to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_Khanate#Fall is not in the period I have been talking about. AGAIN, I acknowledged expansionist policies during various dynasties, however in the 20th century and up until now, China has has not waged a “war of conquest”.

            Good night and good luck.

            P.S. I’m Irish

          • POS

            The SCS is 1,400,000 sq mi (more than twice the area of Texas), and China has in fact, in modern times, invaded and occupied islands held by South East Asian states (links to which I clearly provided), islands often located well within those South East Asian states’ EEZs. Many South East Asians have been killed in the process including civilian fishermen gunned down or rammed by PRC government vessels. If that doesn’t qualify as conquest I don’t know what does, and I haven’t even mentioned Aksai Chin. You, by your own admission, don’t know much about the region or the history, yet you keep making uniformed comments that do little more than parrot Chinese government talking points. Completely disingenuous, you should call it a night and perhaps tomorrow pick up some news sources that don’t carry the propaganda seal of approval from the government of the Peoples Republic of China. Your antics are completely in line with what Sino-trolls post all the time, right down to the totally predictable Native American bit above. Next time try to control your impulse to login on multiple accounts to pad a bunch of down votes… it only makes what is already obvious completely obvious. Have a good night :)

          • Probotector

            Well said.

          • locusts

            typical chinese race, all frog in the well until they emerge and then they become a plague of locust that just eat everything. Chinese are nothing but a plague of insects

          • Chom

            I don’t use any account, and If I did I’d down vote you more than 4 times… :)

            “by your own admission, don’t know much about the region or the history”

            Where did I ever say that? I said I didn’t have a deep knowledge of the Islands’ issues. As usual pathetically putting words into someone’s mouth. If you had strong arguments you wouldn’t have to resort to that.

            The only reason its obvious that the Native American’s would be brought up is because by your own admission you would not be in any position to point out something similar in the early Qing dynasty (which I’m not even arguing with) without first providing a “rigorous” examination of your own country’s slaughter of Native American’s.

            So I brought it up to give you your opportunity to provide your “rigorous” examination. I can understand now why you were so reluctant to disclose which country you came from.

          • POS

            Yea, a Caucasian who doesn’t speak or know Chinese who likes to spend his Saturday evenings repeating official Chinese government policy talking points for, what has it been now, 6 hours (and I was even off line for most of that). Well at least one of us is honest :P (I lied, I’m not African-Canadian… I’m Chinese-Irish) BTW I know this site you would absolutely love, basically its a bunch of guys who I am sure are Caucasian just like you who like to play the ancient Chinese game of “hide the harmony” (close your eyes silly billy) and talk about the newest Peoples Daily op-ed, oh it is completely off the hook, you would love it!

            http://qkme.me/3vnju3

          • Joseph Matsuura

            That Chom douchebag is a Chinese.I’ve lived in China long enough to recognize how brainwashed drones whitewash and justify China’s shortcomings

          • mr.wiener

            That “Chom douchebag” does raise some compelling arguments, which although I don’t personally agree with have been , in the main, logically and well presented. Also he hasn’t stooped too low in the name calling department.
            Just because you don’t agree with someone you can still listen to their arguments and try not to take things personally.

          • POS

            I’d hardly call his arguments “compelling”. He holds China to one standard and the West to another. I’m with Joseph… there is a 1-5% chance he is infact some white far left douche (I mean common we all remember those types from college right?) but his rhetoric is bland everyday fenqing nonsense that you will find from any run of the mill Chinese apologist… its like they all read the same textbook… oh wait I guess they did actually lol.

            There is a danger in trying to appear non-partisan where one thinks they have to call 50% of what both parties say BS, but lets face it, some arguments are more bullshitty than others. Relativism is the death of man.

          • POS

            PS you must check out Peoples Daily, its this little known cutting edge thought provoking daily! :P

          • Joseph Matsuura

            Yeah,your right, that was unbecoming of a gentleman of me. Apologies if my comment seemed too inflammatory.I guess I am just sick of those territorial Nationalistic talks spreading around here in China. I already lost 2 jobs (one for being the only suspect of a theft of a chinese co-worker’s watch during the week of the scarborough shoal standoff and the other for reasons I still cannot fathom during the nationalisation of those darned senkaku islands)resulting to a harder time providing for my Chinese wife here in the Mainland. I am half-Filipino half- Japanese by the way.F@ck me right? LOL

          • POS

            Yes they (Chinese fenwings like Chom, Rou, Khan, Whaddashack) are overtly racist, especially towards Pinoys, stay strong man.

          • POS

            There is always a small chance he is being honest but really if it smells like a turd then… well yea.

          • Whaddashack

            He can’t and won’t. But it’s kind of obvious. White American. Of course, he might not even be American, but being White is certain. Now what his actual heritage is when things get interesting.

          • POS

            Yep I’m white and I can guess the ethnic background of an insecure fenqing like you and your buddy 10 comments away. Just because you have an inferiority complex and hate white guys getting with Chinese girls doesn’t mean you have to run around making an ass of yourself.

          • Whaddashack

            And I can smell my own from a mile away as much as I can smell enraged, mouth foaming Chinese-hatin’ Ameripatriot. Chom might be telling the truth, I actually take his word that he is White. He’s just more informed than you are. Period.

            Inferiority complex? Looking at you, it’s hard not to feel thankful that at least I’m not you. Try getting laid with a big, beautiful black woman first before talking of getting girls.

          • POS

            Chom, by his own admission, is ignorant of much of contemporary Chinese history nor does he speak or understand Chinese. He didn’t even knw about China’s imperialistic invasion and land grab of the Paracel Islands from Vietnam. I’d say his not informed at all, and certainly knows next to nothin about Asia compared to this humble poster. He could very well be white, but I highly doubt he is. He espouses the exact same revisionist historical stance as you and your brain dead fenqing minions who troll here often. In English we say “if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.”

            Who is Chinese hating? I’m not, I’ve lived in China for quite some time, have a grasp of the language and have traveled much of the country. But the country is sick, sick with brainwashed nationalist fools like yourself who like to play victim but cannot acknowledge their own country’s history. You are menacing other Asian countries and behaving as an arrogant and belligerent imperialist. But you aren’t interested in understanding your own history, you are nly interested in rewriting it in a self serving manner to white wash the bad and exaggerate the good. You have no moral standing to lecture anyone, you in particular since you are a racist. Your insecurity and inferiority complex vis-a-vis the west and whites makes you unreasonable and unable to think rationally.

          • POS

            You embrace Chomsky who is a borderline revisionist and most certainly an ideologue with an anti-American agenda (thats a different discussion though), yet you tow the Chinese government line verbatim with regards to history and Tibet. This is called being an ideologue, the anti-thesis of critical thinking.

          • Chom

            oh, I see, not willing to take back your “hyer critical” comment when disproved? In fact your reply has nothing to do with what I wrote above.

          • POS

            What have you disproved? I said you embraced Chomsky, as you said above, who is well known for his hypercritical accounts of American history… I know you don’t speak Chinese, but do you also not understand English? What is your native language, I will try to translate for you. SMH

          • POS

            Was Algeria a country when the French took it? Was Ethiopia when the Italians colonized it? Was India a country when colonized by the UK?

            You are completely disingenuous trying to qualify Tibet’s validity as nation of people based solely on whether or not it meets the criteria of a Western Westephalian State in the 19th-20th century when much of the world had yet to adopt that model.

            All your agreements are based largely on laughable qualifications and extreme oversimplifications in order for you to claim to be “right”. You seemed better versed in polemics than actual critical thinking.

          • POS

            Chom drank too much CCP sanlu as a child, he can process information that doesn’t mesh with his “patriotic” education.

          • Chom

            I’m not even Chinese, and you’re just a POS (by your own admission)

            I can’t even read or speak Chinese so all my research on the subject have been from European/U.S sources.

          • POS

            Settle down Kan-Rou, I’m sure we can find some sanlu for you too. Reading Xinhua English edition hardly qualifies you as knowledgeable nor is Sino-historical revisionism widely accepted outside of China.

            BTW the proper shortening of the phrase you insinuated is PoS, of not being capitalized. Don’t be such a racist.

          • Chom

            What part of “European/U.S sources” do you not understand?

          • Probotector

            “I can’t even read or speak Chinese ”

            So why criticise me for typing 西藏?

          • POS

            Was your quote from Xinhua or another valid state sponsored source? No? Then its not valid for Chom. Simple as that, don’t give the lad cognitive dissonance, his propaganda laden mind might fizzle.

          • Chom

            Looks like you can only talk BS rather than actually debating anything properly.

        • POS

          5 thumbs down, you just got wumao’d hommie

      • taikongren

        It’s always one country taking a side of another. By this criteria, the USA has only invaded countries out of retaliation/self defense (Japan, Germany), or because were invited by one side.

        • Chom

          Not true. See my reply to your post further down:

          “If every side can always make such justifications, why did you careful only mention the U.S entering Iraq “the first time”?

          That you didn’t also mention the 2003 invasion of Iraq shows such a justification could not be made in that case and was in a totally different context.

          So yes, I think the U.S backing up its allies in those cases could certainly not be considered “invading” or “wars of conquest”; although many others, including Iraq 2003 could.”

      • POS

        More than 50% of the land that now comprises the current PRC is in fact lands of other peoples who were independent at one time. Chinese colonialism is even old than its Western counterpart.

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif

        • percymay

          Excellent!!

          • Whaddashack

            Excellent indeed isn’t it? Now go back to Europe. I’ve heard Native Americans have this in mind whenever they see your kind, “Get the fuck out of my land!”

          • Jahar

            yeah because that’s what they are talking about.

          • Whaddashack

            Yes it is. It’s relevant because most of the people commenting on this topic are themselves living on land that is not their own. So if they feel the “Han” who’ve lived there for quite some time should go and really “cared” about Tibetans, then they should lead by example. Get out of the US, Canada, etc. and take their whole grossly obese families back to Europe.

          • POS

            As I said above first you Hans should get out of Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Liaoning, Qinghai, Jilin, Heilongjiang, and the other lands you colonized, you don’t have a leg to stand on as you are just as bad as the west in being colonialist, and even worse in your current treatment of ethnic minorities. Meanwhile in the US “minorities” can become the President, congressmen, CEOs and live free lives.

            Oh and more and more Americans are coming to Asia, you better just get used to it because many of us are here to stay.

          • Whaddashack

            But I wasn’t the one that gleefully pointed out another countries history of colonization. You guys were the ones to do it. With the possible exception of Uighurs, most minorities are treated very well, much better than the Hans. At least there are Han volunteers cleaning up Tibet, Qinghai, Sichuan and the rural areas of China. At least it’s taboo for the younger generation of Chinese to insult and call minorities names. At least the Gov there is actually trying to preserve and teach ethnic minorities their culture and language and they are allowed to wear their appropriate attire. At least the one child policy doesn’t apply to them. Now you tell me one Western country that’s done half as much for the natives as just that. Most NA natives experience extreme discrimination and abuse to this day and many have been wiped out from this world.

            That’s why it boggles the mind how some non-native Europeans, some who only came to America as recent economic refugees even have the nerve to talk ill of them. And that’s why they have every right to tell you to get the fuck out of America. Their words, not mine.

            Uighurs might not even be treated that badly considering what they are actually doing. Did you know that they were immigrants themselves and have a violent history of killing other minorities there? They are even killing and terrorizing their own. So tell me, what would you do with terrorist and separatist groups intent on separating by killing civilians? And then tell me that the Chinese haven’t been restrained with dealing with people who obviously aren’t interested in talks.

            And on the contrary, many minorities have made it huge in China, many occupy top-level government positions and reach levels of fame that no native American has. Unless you count the 1/64 native bloods who are actually 1/132 native or not at all.

          • POS

            Chinese “gleefully” point out Western colonialism ALL the time, incessantly and compulsively (uh did you not read the article above?). The Chinese press never passes up an opportunity to call America imperialistic etc. Yet China has a long document history of colonialism and imperialism.

            >>>Here is the difference<<< American and the West in general are HONEST and OPEN about their history, good and bad. China lies, revises, punishes, and censors inconvenient parts of its history. The result is there are tons of sheep (like you) who know nothing about the reality of Chinese history yet like to run their mouths about the West. So of course we Westerners will point out your blatant hypocrisy. In the USA we can debate and discuss our history, in China you can only spout your rote memorized historical revisionism just as you are doing here.

            So again, you Hans have colonized lands that are not yours (more than 50% of the current PRC), you need to acknwledge that you are colonialists and imperialists and then leave these lands if you want to tell Whites to get out of America. Until then just be quiet, and stop being an ignorant racist.

            BTW China is still acting in an imperialistic manner trying to steal the lands and seas of Southeast Asian states, India, Japan, and Korea. The USA has no territorial disputes with her neighbors nor does she claim the lands of other countries like China does.

          • Whaddashack

            But the US does the same. I mean, it looks to me like most articles about colonization are started by Westerners while they live in land not their own. It’s an unhealthy obsession, if you look at past records, everyone has been a victim of these accusations of colonization. From the Soviets, to the Japanese, from the Japanese to the Chinese and many more in the Middle East.

            The difference is Chinese people don’t bring this up every single time nor feel obliged to tell American citizens to GTFO of the US. That’s what native Americans do and if Chinese were acting in the world’s best interest, they’d advise White Americans to do the same.

            So you see, going through your own posts, it’s you and that Miss Percy the Manboob that brought things out of topic with Tibet.

            And that’s what I’m telling you. If you think colonization is so wrong, why are you still in the US? Why not GTFO back to wherever in Europe you came from, even if you’re too embarrassed by it’s current state of affairs? Now while you’re at it, try dropping the racist accusations. You’re not so clean yourself.

          • POS

            The difference is that America is open and acknowledges the nature of its history. Textbooks talk about slavery, native Americans, and colonialism openly from elementary school through college. China is completely the opposite, they censor and revise history to an extent that most Chinese really don;t even know their own modern history. Yet China has the audacity to constantly point fingers at the West or lecture Japan about not acknowledging WWII atrocities.

            How many Chinese knw the details of the Great Leap Forward, of the Anti-Rightist Campaigns, the Cultural Revolution, the famines and atrocities committed by your ally in North Korea, the active repression of ethnic minorities in Tibet, Xinjiang etc. This is the difference and it is not small.

            You need to come clean with yourselves and the world about the many sordid parts of Chinese history instead of pretending to always be the victims. And again stop being racist.

          • Whaddashack

            There’s little use of teaching about slavery and colonialism when there is no feeling about it. To this day, natives are treated bad. Really bad. And that’s why the concept of White nationalist makes them sick. Seemingly this mindset is very common among White Americans, aren’t you one yourself? So your criticism of Chinese nationalism is silly, since most aren’t half as nationalistic or jingoistic as White people and you don’t even live in China so that it affects you.

            The difference is not small alright. It’s huge, your own country commits atrocities, so what’s your opinion about Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Japan and the thousands of countries your own has messed up?

            What about your civil wars, school shooting, “racial” discrimination, repression and oppression of the surviving natives, unjust laws regarding them, Zimmerman circus? The difference is not small alright. Chinese don’t go about making fun of Tibetans, while Blacks and Natives get called niggers and savages on a consistent basis.

            Chinese are not White Americans, most are naive and obviously would feel too much “Chinese” guilt over things that are obviously not their fault. Now stop using the word racist when you’re one yourself.

            Similarly, you shouldn’t be pointing fingers at the China, Japan, Korea or any Asian country about WW2 issues since it really has nothing to do with you and you lecture Japanese a lot about this too. Especially since your own media calls relationships in East Asia unsalvageable and basically given up on peace in the Pacific. Makes you wonder why you’re even talking about peace in Asia if that were the case.

            With that said, you can do us a favor, get out of America and shut your racist mouth. :)

          • POS

            Little use teaching your own history? Wow pretty much you acknowledge you are a complete hypocrite who is only interested in finger pointing. Again Chinese minorities flee to America and the West in droves yet American minorities would never flee to China. Actions speak louder than you hollow racist words.

            The rest of what you wrote is nonsense and just demonstrates that you know nothing about America except the cherry picked view you want to construct in your bigoted mind. America is a multi-etnic state that leads the world technologically and culturally. Even Chinese want to imigrate to the US in huge number. Again actions speak louder than you sad bigoted words.

            And we Americans will continue to come to Asia to live, work, and perhaps even marry Chinese citizens. There is nothing you can do to stop this. Just be quiet and accept that you know nothing and will likely never be anything more than a bitter little racist.

          • POS

            Only in America can Asians emigrate and be fully accepted because America is truly an open and diverse society, leading the world culturally in ways that China will never be able to rival. Again actions speak louder than the hollow racist words of a Han-supremacist like yourself. We will continue to talk about Chinese history freely, pointing out the realities that you would rather hide.

            http://www.thefeeherytheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/allamericangirl-lrg.jpg

          • POS

            Chinese history is not yours alone to discuss, especially since you have a habit of trying to lecture others on history that “has nothing to do with you”. We are all human, all history is our shared business, and you won’t be permitted to pretend like your country isn’t and colonialist/imperialist state when it clearly is. When a Han-supremecist racist like you sputs off you non-sense historical revisionism it is the moral duty of anti-racists to call your racist BS what it is. Go to sleep racist, and wake up tomorrow realizing that we Americans are still in Asia and we aren’t leaving.

          • POS

            If it is the best interests of the world for colonialists and occupiers to vacate lands they have taken then Han Chinese should lead by example and leave Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Liaoning, Qinghai, Jilin, Heilongjiang, and the other lands you colonized. Until then do us a favor and be quiet with your racist nonsense.

          • Whaddashack

            Exactly, so why are you still in America? Since colonization is so bad, kindly leave the US and go back to Europe. You zip your mouth first and as the natives put it, GTFO America.

          • POS

            No I don’t think I will, America is my home. And Asia is my second home. I’ll come and go as I please and you’ll just have to accept it. And I’ll freely point out what a hypocrite your are since you are no better than whites and are squating on the lands of others just as much as any American. And rest assured more and more of us Americans, White, Black, whatever will be coming to Asia and China, perhaps even marrying Asian or Chinese girls and setting up home or businesses here. Again there is nothing you can do to stop us,. You lose racist.

            Oh and I’ll come to China and let Chinese know what a piece of human crap Mao Zedong and his party are too haha

          • Whaddashack

            Funny, the hypocritical one has to be you and I’m the one pointing out what a lonely, frustrated, biased racist you are. So you project what you are onto me. Smooth much? No way haha.

            The solution is kind of simple to that problem though. I’ve heard the Japanese recently banned a foreigner from coming into their country on the grounds of being too handsome. I’m sure the Chinese can come up with even more incredible reasons and it’s you that can’t do anything about it. Besides, being too handsome is not a problem. Most Americans are way too jumbo-sized anyway so it’s kinda weird some humpty dumpty thinks they are Brad Pit. I find it funny you’re even talking about women stealing. I’m sure you living on handouts in your trailer gives you ample time to dream hahaha

          • POS

            Nope you won’t do anything of the sort. I will continue to visit and live in Japan or China as will other Americans. It is your racist Han-supremacist fantasy but the reality is that the Chinese government is relaxing visa regulations towards the west and more and more of us are coming to all Asian countries. So again you can’t stop it. We aren’t “stealing” women which is probably one of your biggest insecurities as most racist insecure males of any race always cry about such things, but certainly Westerners and Asians are very compatible, that is obvious just walk around Shanghai and youll see any number of such couples. You lose again racist.

          • SensitiveGuy

            Are you okay? Based on your posts I briefly browsed, you seem to be truly infuriated by many of these trolls. It’s quite sad to read about your pain. Don’t take this so seriously buddy. They’re just playing with your mind. Not sure what happened to you out in Asia, but it seems you have a lot of anger towards the people of China. When I’m in Asia, I think people are pretty nice and keep to themselves, in general. If they continue to hurt you, then it might be best for you to reconsider why you are living in a place that makes you so angry. Health is #1 for us old guys you know. You indirectly indicate your interest in Chinese women, so don’t let them cause this hardship upon you. They came from the ball sac of the Chinese people, so we have to realize what we are doing. May God Bless you.

          • POS

            Bless you too brother, have a great day :) thanks for your enlightening comment and great advice, appreciated!

          • SensitiveGuy

            You’re welcome.

            And I’m more than your brother, I’m your teacher. Remember,

            POS KHAN 4 LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            ;-)

          • POS

            Awwwww shit you so got me!!! Like, totally, I was really sure that another kind foreigner was generally concerned about me rolling over insecure fenqing losers so he gave me great advice which I took to heart and never for a single second could have imagined I was being rick rolled by Khan, damn I even gave him a smiley face! I feel so decieved, I never saw it coming :( really I didn’t suspect a thing D:!!!!

            Bless you brother, may your sister and mother find handsome white men :)

          • POS

            Oh and may you find a handsome white man to preform all the perverse sexual acts on you that you desire deep down inside, I wish you the best!

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            ROTFL, you’re a troll, but a good one at that.

          • POS

            Oh common, he was captain obvious…. do I seem like the kind of guy who genuinely tell random internet people to bless themselves? Kicked his bait so he would predictably jump out with “gotcha” and much joy that he got whitey… common man its not my first day on the internet lol.

            BTW I can’t believe you dont know about Great Teach Onizuka… I might have to revoke your Asian card.

          • KAMIKAZIPILOT

            Yeah right, you knew all along he was Khan, sure I believe you. Revoke my Asian card? I turned in my Asian card long ago. Just because I piss on you doesn’t mean I’m an Asian nationalist. Wanna know a secret? I don’t even like most Asian foods (except maybe Mongolian) and also don’t really like Japanese women (Chinese are much hotter, even white girls are hotter and maybe Hispanic girls too)

          • POS

            Well you’ll believe what you want to believe, but don’t piss on Japanese girls like that, they are really nice… I’ve had a few Japanese girlfriends and I am still in touch with one, she is so nice. But of Asians Koreans and Thais win in terms of hotties, far greater numbers than in the US. Chinese girls vary depending on region, but well I won’t elaborate on what I see as the pecking order of hotties in Asia. I love living out here though haha :P

            BTW I have an honorary Asian card, I am generally considered to be a local wherever I go, I’m just so cool like that lol

          • Ohnoes

            Yeah right just about sums what I think as well. What it looked like was that POS was a bit overwhelmed with his discussion and story time with me, and seeing the first “nice” comment thrown towards him, took the bait. Hook line and sinker.

            I agree with SensitiveGuy about his pain and frustration at the Asian male, but would further add that POS’s relationships are fiction, not fact.

            As for Japanese girls, are they really that bad? I happen to know a few and I don’t see how Chinese girls are better than Japanese girls and vice versa. They’re both hot XD

            You know, you’re the first Japanese American guy I know that doesn’t really like your own. Even those online. Most seem not to question the beauty of their own girls, but of course like playing the Asian pimp. You’re pimping, aren’t you? :)

            I guess it’s my turn to agree with POS on one thing. Thais and Koreans are hot, but unlike him, I don’t discriminate and rank Asians badly based on nationality. :)

          • POS

            BTW I’m in Asia now :) I won’t talk about my relationship status except to say it would infuriate a typical Han-supremacist racist like yourself :D! You can wish I was some trailer trash posting from the US but your wishes are exactly that~ just like you wish Westerns wouldn’t come to Asia. Seems you are setting your self up for a lonely bitter life little racist.

          • Zappa Frank

            your example is a bit unfair, why pointing on western men marry asians
            girls? could be ok as well is western girls marry asians men. Most of americans do not plan to stay forever in china.. and exactly because of some of
            americans/europeans behavior in china/asia we have more and more people
            who dislike us.. i mean, i basically agree with you, but maybe we
            should try to understand other people’s feeling.. when i see immigrants
            here and start to talk shit about my home it doesn’t make me really
            happy, i feel as well that “go back to your home” complex… but we do
            ALWAYS about china… in a certain degree sometimes, i may think we deserve a part of their racism.

          • POS

            Well a lot of the racism is directed at Western male-Asian female couples. Besides I’m a male westerner so I was speaking through my own experience. As for our behavior, I’d say the average American in Asia is more aware and more cerebral regarding the world than the average American in America, and usually better behaved. And I rarely have initiated a conversation about politics with Chinese people, it is most often them who brings up politics when they find out I am Americans and then proceed to make very uninformed comments about my country. I agree where agreement is warranted but also call BS when the verge into the typical government talking points. I also point out the reality of China’s history and China’a various imperialist policies, which usually elicites a fair amount of blustering on their part and the usual “you westerns cant understand China, 5000 years blah blah blah” yet these same people most often have never even left their own country and yet think they have some deep understanding of the west.

            I understand the above posters feelings, just as I understand the feeling of a radical white nationalist racist in America. But I do not sypathize with either one, nor will I role over when they spout their racist BS.

            As for deserve racism? Please think about what you just said. Would you apply the same to Chinese who go to America? They are much more likely to commit a faux pas than an American in China… do they DESERVE racism???

          • Zappa Frank

            i’m sorry, but my experience doesn’t fit with your description, i may be unlucky, but i’ve seen a lot of assholes among foreigners in china, many more than chinese immigrants (i do not know about them in US, just in my country).. people that call them monkeys and throw them bananas, old men chasing young girls, and the evergreen, that “you don’t deserve your girls” or also ” we can have all your girls” complex that is so common among foreigners in china that usually think chinese men are barely males, and look down upon them.. I do not say all foreigners are like that, nor i’m saying you are.. but indeed there are more than one, or was i so unlucky to know many of them? So that no wonder chinese men do not like us.. would you like us if you were in their shoes? Before saying someone is racist i think we should also try to understand their feeling. Think as if you were an american white guy but with a stressful life, competition over all, work hard as hell to get a tiny chance to go to a barely decent university.. than no girls if you don’t have car and house… on the same time chinese come in your conuntry and fuck 30 girls each one, get a salary that is double than yours even without any clear qualification except that they are chinese.. they can freely come in your country but is almost impossible for you go in their country legally.. and plus ridiculize you and all white males at every chance, surronded by screaming girls.. how about this picture? is not far from be real..

          • Ohnoes

            I missed this bit, but can respect that at the very least. Thanks.

            To be honest though, I’ve never had a problem with Western men marrying Asian girls and vice versa. I’ve actually agreed that Asians and Caucasians can be quite compatible. In reality, most Chinese DON’T have this problem and it’s an old strawmen argument used to gain some leverage when backed in a corner.

            What I do have a problem with is if the Asian girl is far from her family and friends, raped, murdered while alone in a foreign country while her family worries about her safety back home. When such cases happen, the lack of support and concern for the murdered girl is shocking.

            I’m even less offended when it comes from POS mouth simply because his stories are way too fantastic and he, way too anonymous to merit belief. I doubt he even lives in China/Asia. Much less having a girlfriend.

            The second part is what I’m more concerned about regarding immigration. As you can see, POS uses the typical argument that Chinese behavior in America is much worse than American behavior in China. This simply isn’t true because Chinese Americans commit far less crime than the majority White population, even those from lower social backgrounds. China itself has much less crime than America, and it’s not hard to see foreigners with knives, getting into fights, being all round rude and disrespectful, etc. The fact that POS doesn’t know this and you do makes it clear of the different backgrounds and the truth in one’s words.

            As for the foreigners I’m talking about:
            http://beijingcream.com/2013/04/neil-robinson-that-english-teaching-rapist-fucker/

            At least you understand that it’s natural for people to want to protect their country from crime and screen immigrants into the country. And I can sympathize with the people who say, “If you don’t like the country, than go home” since like you, I understand that’s a natural feeling. I mean if it’s that painful, and you can’t stand anything about x country, and you’re better of in y, then why are you in x?

          • NonSensitiveGuy

            Just finished reading your manhandling of this scrawny negative value of a being. Keep up the good work and make sure to use the pull out method on it.

          • Whaddashack

            Thank you. Have you checked the new guy that likes to come up on POS in his trailer? AKA Percy the hobo May? Like POS before him, he’s as transparent as a glass house, focusing on semantics and English skills (they all do, even though it’s irrelevant) and full of anger and jealousy towards Asians.

            PercyMayHomo is what you call a wigger, a White person that acts as insecure and as frustrated as a Black man that he seems to hate so much.

            Like POS before, he’s also furious at the actual feelings of native Americans and manufactures outrage at the evils of the “Chinese” (note he is not intelligent enough to separate the people from the government, while the Japanese can, that’s how you tell the difference between a Japanese and a Wapanese (almost exclusively White). That and also the Wapa-Euro is far more vulgar, far more vindictive, far more offensive, lacks any manners, clearly has an agenda and is overall just a shitty copy of the original he tries to emulate. See Joseph Matsuura, who might be our PercyGay.

            He’s very concerned and manufactures outrage over the oppressed undemocratic Chinese. Boo hoo. All this inspite of being a hypocrite who never raised a cent to help the Tibetans, never did anything to help the mass illegal rape and exploitation and abuse of Native Americans in his own country. Needless to say, like most White Americans, he has a nasty habit of jeering at the misfortunes of others, something civilized people find disgusting.

            All in all, there are many “White nationalist/Ameripatriots” here, talking crap in a website that has nothing to do with them. PercyGay, the race-card puller, thinks that facts are racist and will make Chinese look bad when:

            1) It will only look bad for the White Nationalist/Neocons who have already formed their opinions and squat on a whole continent that was colonized. (Definitely not needed, since they’ve not contributed a pint from their dirty, greedy and very fat hands)
            2) No one cares what they think. Despite the animosity, neighboring countries around China have contributed much earlier and far more to modern China than all of the US and Europe combined. And all that help is mainly from Asian Americans anyway.

            He really needs to get over his hostility (a result of his insecurity and inability to get laid) and get over the fact we don’t care about him and all the other White nationalist ala hateful, bitter, little racist crew.

            Lastly appreciate your agreement and feel free to spread the message around :) There were others there before me, and even more before them who strove to improve the livelihoods of the Chinese and who continue to show humanity in the face of inhumanity. The fact that Chinese don’t make it a point to make fun of refugees and waste their time being helpful but continue to rise through adversity makes me proud.

          • percymay

            Ummm! It seems that chinaSMACK let the attack dog out of its cage. Oh, well . . .

            According to legend, the Prussian Army gave two tests to all boys entering the army.

            One test was to see if the boy was lazy or hard working; the other test was to see if the boy was stupid or clever.

            If the boy was clever and lazy, they trained him to be a high officer;

            If he was clever and hard working, they trained him to be a low officer;

            If he was stupid and lazy, they made him a regular soldier; but

            If he was stupid and hardworking, they took him out in the woods and shot him.

            You, Canadian-black, “Chinese-wannabe,” would most definitely be classified as stupid and hardworking.

            People who are stupid and hardworking cause the most damage to an organization.

            Do you believe that by insulting American and Canadian whites, it will ingratiate you with your Chinese masters at chinaSMACK? Do you think your rants against white Americans and Europeans will win friends for China?

            You’re just a simple tool being used to express the frustration and envy of Chinese boys (and chiggers) who were humiliated by having to learn their own history from a “white man’s” education system.

            The frustration is even greater because you must use the “white man’s” language to express your humiliation. If you used your own language, no one (except yourself) would hear you.

            Canadian-black, “chigger,” North American aborigine, “Chinese-wanna-be,” whatever, calm down, take a pill, chill.

            You obviously have some psychological problems. Did the Canadian Mounted Police attack your village, rape all the men and kill all the women? Did they burn your teepee? Break your tom-tom? I feel your pain.

            Listen to me, white men are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Without them, you would’t even be able to speak English to insult them.

            Tell your masters at chinaSMACK without white people, who would read this blog that prints (in English) all the dirt and trash about Chinese society. If Americans or English or Canadians printed all the shit you print about Chinese, they would be branded racists.

            chinaSMACK is not doing itself any favors by using a wannabe Chinese to do its dirty work.

            Insults and racist attacks against whites will not build its readership. Bring back the pompous pseudo-intellectual.

          • Whaddashack

            Temper, temper my Black wannabe White nationalist loser. The hardworker is clearly yourself with your thousands of cowardly posts aimed at denigrating your wigger brothers and those blacks you hate so much and constantly talk bad about. Stop being such a racist, if only to your own bloodbrothers hehehe.

            So I’m attacking Whites, and you’re that victimized angel that’s attacked no one? Talk like that in a reserve and you should feel honored to get scalped along with your obese family. Wrong. It’s the reverse and I haven’t attacked Whites, Only embittered WNs

            It’s very clear I got your panties in a knot but that’s no reason to get angry. You see, you can’t hide what you feel in front of me, namely scathing fury like all White people really. I’d hold my tongue if I were you, your own White researchers proved that Whites indeed have a much nastier temper, more hormones and propensity for violence than Chinese and the other Mongoloids, vis-a-vis American natives. Similarly, Japanese and Chinese researchers came up with results indicating higher intelligence based on cranial measurements and various tests. I learned that you’re closely related to negroids, which just about explains your insecurities, racism, rage and cowardice. Those are facts, get over it and learn to live with it.

            I bet you have multiple pseudonyms here, all pretending to be someone you’re not, and all pretending to be non-White :)

            If you really believed you’re so great you wouldn’t feel the need to preach it to the Asian race. At least they feel enough pride to be themselves and not pretend to be someone else. They don’t visit WN sites like you visit theirs. Just goes to show who really is the greatest. Without Asians, you wouldn’t have the paper to wipe your hairy buttocks or have the luxury of a computer, TV or portable.

            White Americans and Canadians are free to repeat what I said about Chinese and themselves. Rushton and Lynn did it. No one cares and few even give a crap about “racism” these days. And since when were facts racist? It’s alright to be more negroid than Chinese, just try to control that nigger inside, ok? Freckled hairy nigger.

            I’m still laughing at your comment of Chinasmack staff and your open challenge to them. If they were pro-China as you claimed, they would have banned you for your repeated insults of the Chinese and they wouldn’t tolerate your angry temper tantrums directed at them in the least.

            You seem to think your readership, someone who hasn’t contributed squat nor even left his trailer matters. The staff will tell you otherwise.

            Now relax and try to think. I know you’re brain is limited since you lack a mongoloid brain but don’t be lazy, don’t be angry lol.

          • percymay

            Whoa! Whoa! You’d da Man. You definitely da Man.

            China better not let you near a school yard or playground.
            You definitely should not be around children or defenseless women.

            And don’t buy any knives.
            I believe you’re about to blow it.

            Super Native American, it’s perfectly normal for Asian men to still be virgins in their 30s.
            And it’s not true that masturbation will drive you crazy. But it does lead to frustration when you see the dregs of white society come to China and attract all the young, pretty Chinese girls.

            But you’d da Man!

            However, a few questions:

            You wrote: “They [Asians] don’t visit WN (white nationalists) sites like you visit theirs. Just goes to show who really is the greatest.”

            Umm! I don’t visit “Asian” websites. I visit English language websites like Shanghaiist. But why would a Chinese blog (chinaSMACK) publish in English if it’s not for white people to read?

            You wrote: “Without Asians, you wouldn’t have the paper to wipe your hairy buttocks . . .”

            Yes, that’s true. Chinese invented toilet paper, but why do they squat in a hole like a dog? Couldn’t they invent a toilet to sit on? And besides, weren’t your Native Americans using corncobs in place of toilet paper?

            You wrote: “I bet you have multiple pseudonyms here, all pretending to be someone you’re not . . . At least they [Asians] feel enough pride to be themselves and not pretend to be someone else.”

            True, true . . . then why do Chinese give themselves English names? Don’t they have “pride” in their Asian name?

            You wrote: “If you really believed you’re so great you wouldn’t feel the need to preach it to the Asian race.”

            Native-American Superhero, if I am not mistaken, my comments were addressed to another “racist White Nationalist” /sarc (POS). I have no intention or interest in “preaching” to Asians.

            It was YOU, the so-called Asian-Canadian-Native American (Chinese-wannabe) “chigger” who introduced your poot-butt into our discussion. The discussion did not turn insulting or racist until you vomited all over the blog.

            But you’d da Man!

            chinaSMACK used to have a pompous, pseudo-intellectual who did all their dirty work. When he was lost in a debate or could not express himself in English, the first thing he did was ban the person from posting comments. Of course, using some excuse that the poster was not being “civil.”

            When I read some of your comments to POS, I realized that you were the new hatchet man. I had no intentions of playing in your muck. You prevent a reasonable or logical debate or discussion from developing by introducing racist, vulgar, insulting remarks.

            I can’t blame you because you’re looking for acceptance into a group that will give you dignity. Alone, you feel helpless and inferior. Unfortunately, chinaSMACK is taking advantage of your psychological condition to keep their little blog alive. Anyway . . .

            You’d da Man!

          • Whaddashack

            Your anger is noted. Stop beating your sister in your rage.

            White men are notorious for beating up and killing innocent White women and children. Defenceless Chinese girls and children are at a much greater risk from your tribal negroid rage.

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2402309/Sandy-Hook-massacre-Shooter-Adam-Lanzas-school-records-requested.html
            http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865582008/Sandy-man-beat-his-wifes-grandmother-to-death-with-a-golf-club-police-say.html?pg=all

            On the contrary, the dregs of White society are like you, lonely, frustrated and bitter. Relax dude, you guys aren’t getting any Chinese girls soon, you can’t even land your own and Blacks. The best White men aren’t getting all da pwetty Chinese girls, so what makes you think a dirty little sleazewigga can? Masturbation produces frustration indeed.

            What about Native Americans? The worst native American isn’t taking dumps in people’s pools and shopping.

            The reason Chinese people use English names is because you’re limited brain wouldn’t be able to pronounce nor remember their names. They are too proud to let you mispronounce their names with your unwashed mouth and vomit.

            You wrote: “I have no intention or interest in “preaching” to Asians.”

            Ohhh but you do. All WNs do, while all Asians don’t. Matter of their pride, your insecurities. It’s like those niggers you hate so much. I know you’re a wigger but take it easy; genetically you aren’t so different from those blacks.To call you a hairy, freckly nigger is not an insult, it’s a fact. Nigger. :)

            You wouldn’t be virulently shitting diarrhea all over the internet and on this blog if you weren’t looking for some attention from Asians. Shanghaiist is an English site with a mainly expat and Chinese base, while you’re a sore angry loser that doesn’t even live in China, has never left his country but has a very unhealthy obsession with the superior Asian race. Superior only in your inferior mind of course. And you’re posting on Chinasmack too while there are zero Chinese posting on WN websites. :)

            By the way, read carefully. It’s you that butted into a conversation that did not involve you. I was talking to NonSensitiveGuy, the complete opposite of you, super-sensitiveman..

            As for your fantasies about Chinasmack being pro-China, and the mods being ban happy, even the biggest fool would know that is not the case. There was no such mod. Last I checked, you’re still here and I bet you’d come crawling back when banned. Csmack doesn’t need you as much as you seem to need it. People interested in learning about Chinese thinking are keeping this blog alive, not White people and definitely not one as bitter, frustrated and “wigger” as you. Do you still dream of being black, hairy nigger?

            Some things you’ve NO right to talk about. One. A reasonable debate. WNs and you’ve non to offer and the worst Asian of any form looks like Einstein next to you.

            Two, unwillingness to play. The reason you poop all over Asian-themed websites with your insecurities and bitterness is you feel inadequate next to them. From your comment history, EVERY post is a racist, little wrinkly man rant (pretending not to notice how disgusting and inferior you are to all of us of course). Don’t blame me.

            When a person who so obviously feigns rationale and calm sings a different tune, gets angry and is exposed for the unintelligent, jealous buffoon he is, he becomes Percygay. You should have gone by your gut feelings and avoided me and to save some face, it’s best to STFU now.

            And the final truth is this, you thought you could pick on me, like all the very polite Chinese/Asians but got your ass handed to you. When Asians including the Native Americans, do decide to debate we have no equal on earth. Natural fear aside, that will teach you never to mess with us again. :)

            Still think I’m part of the Csmack staff? You turning into a paranoid, boneheaded porker and hating on and threatening the smack is the funniest thing of all and shows how awesome I am. For the record, if I was an actual mod, neither PoShit nor you would dare come here. Speaking of which, wigger, if you were actually not a coward and worth your salt, you’d go straight for any serious Chinese/Asian nationalist website with your bullshit. Assuming they would even let you in. You wouldn’t last 20 seconds there before running out, with tears of frustration, defeat and anger. :)

          • percymay

            Wow! Man, that was some heavy shit you just dropped. I gave you a thumbs up. No one can pretend to be this crazy. You’re for real.

            You’d da Man!

            I hope you don’t mind, but I sent your rants to several newspapers to give them an idea of how a Chinese (chinaSMACK) blog operates.

            To have a bonafide Asian, racist, nut job from chinaSMACK so vociferously, yet pathologically, expressed himself, is truly enlightening.

            After listening to your comments, I think it’s best I make a quiet exit and leave you to your meal of flies and spiders. I’m sure once your blood sugar level is raised, you’ll be “abi-normal” again.

            With people like you in China, the world has nothing to fear yet everything to fear.

            Thank you for showing me what a racist Chinese wannabe is like.

          • Kai

            Dude…

            http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/my-prediction-for-miley-cyrus/#comment-1021617231

            The source of the debauchery and dissolution that has entered and contaminated American society can be found in the dysfunction and degeneracy that permeates American-black society.

            http://mobile.wnd.com/2013/08/black-mob-in-training-bullies-3-year-old/#comment-1021418889

            American-black society is dysfunctional, anti-social, and degenerate. It is a cancer that is eating away the basic fabric of US society. It needs to be seriously dealt with.

            Blacks, if they can read, should take a lesson from history. If they don’t clean up their barbaric, uncouth behavior, one day they will feel the backlash from the majority society and the liberal white Democratic Party leaders will not save them.

          • mr.wiener

            Dang!
            The crazy is strong around here.

          • percymay

            Yes! Kai,

            American-black society IS dysfunctional.

            What society extols the role of pimps, illiterate professional athletes, stupid rap singers and hip-hop entertainers as role models?

            What society has more young men in prison than in college?

            What group voted (twice) over 90% for a president simply because of the color of his skin?

            I can go on and on, but there is no need.

            What’s your point?

          • Ohnoes

            Thanks Kai. And he claimed to be Black, he certainly acts and is lower than all the blacks he claims to hate. Notice his attack on native Americans and how POS just ignored all that? Yet has the nerve to complain about Tibetans.

            It’s awfully cowardly of him to take a swipe at me after I was banned and told off. Through it all, I respect both you and wiener for your moderating skills, trust me. I respect your decision to ban me as well since it shows fairness. Notice the people I was debating with have all been of a certain type. I have yet to insult a regular that doesn’t deserve it, no matter who they are.

            Even if you don’t agree with me or find my arguments offensive, I hope you understand I’m doing it for your own good and the good of people within my race.

            If I have to go, so must this percymay. Aside from POS and me, he also played a part in the trolling. In fact, he was worse than either of us and you know why?

            This rather snide, crude, bitter and malicious troll has taken every opportunity and abused liberties to make personal insults, spammed his vitriol all over the blog and racially denigrate against Native Americans, Chinese, Asians, Blacks while accusing others of racism.

            He’s also repeatedly challenged and threatened the blog’s staff, accusing you guys of being Chinese minions, (which is ridiculous, considering you guys already banned me and Mr Wiener is White) made uncalled rumors about the older moderators of your site and threatened to leave your site.

            I’ve tried really hard not to offend wiener. It’s not that clear, but I’m don’t hate “White” people, I feel pride in my own race and people, it’s not really my fault POS and percy couldn’t get over that

            Kai, this is the type of person that’s becoming all too common on the web. Maybe you don’t encounter them so much, but I’ve seen them quite often. They are allowed to attack with impunity in just about every site they are on, when they obviously wouldn’t allow “free speech” in their own sites. Then they complain they are being silenced when they obviously aren’t. Unlike him, I’ve never had a problem with your site and believe you are fair. I’ve seen the same fairness in Jcrush and Kbang, which is why I even post here. Sure, there’s a lot of random C-bashers but at least you’re able to see from every angle.

            For the sake of fairness, I think you ought to ban percy since apparently he doesn’t post in Asian sites (he calls Csmack a Chinese site). He shouldn’t be let off.

            And if he’s banned and comes back and replies to me, I won’t reply to him anymore since I’ve already outdebated him. It’ll just prove my point that he needs this site more than the site needs him.

            Cheers.

          • percymay

            Wow! We have a psychodrama going on here.

            I believe I walked into a snake pit.

            Whadashack and Ohnoes are these characters from “One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”?

          • Ohnoes

            And you’re J Edgar, asking young Shirley Temple for that kiss. Now what happened to leaving quietly?

            Whadashack and Ohnoes are these characters from “One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”!!!

            In a hurry? Fixed that for you :)

          • Ohnoes

            There are so many inconsistencies in your posts, there’s no where to begin and nowhere to end. In the end, the only thing that’s certain is:

            1) You contradict yourself, since apparently you don’t post to Asians, yet come to a “Chinese” blog.

            2) You got outdebated, and inspite of your desparation at sarcasm, you weren’t able to refute or dispute a single fact I gave.

            3) Your outburst revealed just what you are, and what we already knew about you

            4) Yes, you should leave quietly back home to your grubby handed, obese family members.

            It was always you with the inferiority complex and the wannabe operating with multiple names like matsuura and Canadian Black. Doesn’t make you Japanese though. A common tactic of the White troll is to pretend to be Japanese, an Asian race to make them look bad and because they are too ashamed and lack pride in themselves. Like yourself.

            Racist? Just get over it. Facts aren’t racist. Kai, I hope you consider giving this rather snide, crude, bitter and malicious troll what he wants. An opportunity to be excluded from this “little Chinese” blog. He’s been actively trolling, race baiting, sneakily yet obviously harassing other members and insulting the staff and users of this blog.

          • percymay

            Ohnoes, I don’t know you nor have I ever made a remark to your comment. What are you talking about?

            chinaSMACK has a psychotic poster name Whadashack insulting every white that expresses a critical comment about China. He’s sick. Is this a site for Chinese and Asian sickos?

            Come on, Old Boy, if you dislike the way I dealt with sicko, Whatashack, just say so.

            I had no problem with anyone else because I only commented to one poster, POS.

            I use the name percymay because that’s my name. If it’s a matter of Whatashack having his feelings hurt, tell him I’m sorry, but I don’t suffer fools easily. He can ignore me and I will definitely avoid him.

            Ohnoes, I don’t know what’s your problem. I’ve never posted anything to you and, most likely, I never would.

            So what’s your point?

          • Ohnoes

            You had a problem with the staff, with the users, insulted people like Terrik even before “Whaddashack” personally handed your ass over to you. The moment you attempted to speak to “whaddashack” was the moment you got turned inside out. You didn’t comment to only one poster, and you can clearly see who “whaddashack” was talking to before you rudely piped in and very quickly got shut down.

            Speaking of hurt feelings, it’s clearly yours that have been hurt. Throughout “your” whole ordeal you’d notice the smiley and laughter while you whined about “intimidation” and attempted just that. And failed.

            You wrote: “I don’t suffer fools gladly”.
            Ironic, considering you ARE the old, insecure fool.

          • percymay

            Hahaha! Hahaha!

            You’re totally crazy!

            Don’t tell me chinaSMACK kicked you out?
            Wow! That’s good. You were/are a sick booger on a clean napkin.

            Maybe now chinaSMACK can get back on line and become the blog it should have been before idiots like you hijacked it.

            Native American Superhero (“chigger”), you need professional help.

            Do not go around any Chinese children or defenseless females.

            And do not buy any knives.

          • Ohnoes

            What happened to leaving? In case you haven’t noticed, everyone knows by now that you’re a redundant little anal pile. You see, even if you’re not here, the site goes on. Staying away from Chinese women and children is the right thing for you, just in case you go amok like your cousin Lanza. And staying away from Csmackers is also good, since it seems to drive you to a mouth foaming rage

            Your pseudo-intellectual guise got blown just as easily as
            that and you resort to good old negroid tactics of “intimidation” and “crudeness”. Can’t help it, right? It’s in the blood, you can take percygay out of Africa, but not the coon out of percygay.

            Like a fly flying towards a pile of shit, you came to Csmack expecting an easy bash, but surprise, surprise, there was a reversal. I’m very sorry for making you feel like the shitstain you are and it’s not easy being revealed as the old, lonely, single, angry and frustrated, izzit, hurr durrr dooommbbb? Shoo, you’re not needed nor wanted here. :)

          • Probotector

            “chinaSMACK used to have a pompous, pseudo-intellectual who did all their dirty work. When he was lost in a debate or could not express himself in English, the first thing he did was ban the person from posting comments. Of course, using some excuse that the poster was not being “civil.”"

            Who was that?

          • percymay

            China is preparing for a war that it knows is coming. One only has to look at the arms race taking place in Asia and the alliances being formed by the US with India, Japan, the Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, Thailand, Indonesia, Australia, Singapore, Myanmar, etc. These alliances are with the US not China. China is being “contained.”

            The Pivot to Asia and the Air-Sea Battle Plan are being directed independently by the US military not the White House or the State Department. War with China will be a nuclear war, not a little political war (Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, etc.) where new weapon systems, strategy and tactics, communications, etc., are tested.

            Quiet as kept, the military question is not the major point that is being discussed behind closed doors. It is the question of how China will be divided, fragmented, or broken up after the war.

            China is becoming too (economically) strong, too (militarily) big, and too (politically) important for individual countries to deal with. As a result, countries are uniting to counter China’s growth.

            After every major war, new political boundaries are drawn. The Ottoman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire were broken up after WW I. Germany, Japan, Italy had their territories divided after WW II. China will be no different. China will be fragmented. It will lose Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan; Guangdong and Hong Kong will be independent! Border issues with various countries (India, Korea, Myanmar, Vietnam, etc.) will be resolved.

            These are the issues the “big boys” are discussing and debating. China’s “big boys” know this. China is preparing for a major war.

            Winter is coming.

          • POS

            First you Hans get out of Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Liaoning, Qinghai, Jilin, Heilongjiang, and the other lands you colonized, then come talk to us about returning to Europe. Until then just do everyone a favor and stfu.

          • Whaddashack

            Get real, Hans have been living in some of those regions for close to a thousand years. It’s just like Celts and Scots living in Europe, or Germans living in Russia. So where did the Hans originally come from if not from that region?

            And my response was only in reply to your whole silly notion about Hans who’ve actually lived in those regions for several generations having to go. Some of those places were originally Chinese anyway, before immigrants came over. The point is people colonize others, it’s just that some people are extra loud about criticizing people who’ve played no part in the colonization.

            Now with that in mind, and taking into account your whole fappery of the Han colonization, feel free to help the oppressed natives in your own country. Until then, YOU do us a favor and STFU. Oh, and just because I’m extra thoughtful of the native Americans, I’ll echo their thoughts. GTFO America and go back to Europe.

          • POS

            No Hans have not been living there for 1000s of years. Inner Mongolia has long been settled by Non-Han people, known as Mongolians. Liaoning was long part of the Korean nation, in fact you can find Korean speakers and ethnic Koreans everywhere there. Same with Tibet Xinjiang, Qinghai, Yunnan etc. So again you need to get out and stop colonizing the lands of others before you open you ignorant mouth about America. Until that time do us all a favor and just shut your racist mouth :)

          • Whaddashack

            Refer below. I wasn’t the one to talk about colonizing. You were. Most of those minorities are considered Chinese.

            So what’s your excuse for staying in America with your huge extended family of overweight druggies? And if you really cared for the colonized people, why target only China? Why not start with yourselves? Exactly.

            Now shut your own racist, hateful and unwashed mouth.

          • POS

            These minorities are not represented in government, in the US “minorities” have served as President, Secretary of State, National Security advbisors, Senators, Govenors, CEOs, Ambassadors, the list goes on. In China all important political positions belong to ethnic Hans. China is for all intents and purposes an ethnic Han state with a small minority of ethnic others whose lands were taken by the Chinese state, some were killed of and some still exist under active oppression by the policies of the Han majority. American is a multi-ethnic multi-cultural state. completely different from China.

            You ask why “target” China? I’m not targeting anyone, but (mainland) Chinese generally, and the Chinese state by active policy, do not acknowledge their history yet have the gall to point fingers at the US and the West. Because you are historical revisionists you are ignorant of your own history and the negative impacts China has had on her neighbors and on her own people. You cannot reflect on your mistakes because you pretend as if they don’t exist, yet you take delight in pointing out the flaws of the West. You are a hypocrite and most certainly a racist as is betrayed by your posts about ethnically European people.

            So once again I say be quiet until you are prepared to acknowledge the true nature of Chinese history, good as well as bad. And stop being a racist, it is disgusting.

          • Whaddashack

            “These minorities are not represented in government, in the US
            “minorities” have served as President, Secretary of State, National
            Security advbisors, Senators, Govenors, CEOs, Ambassadors, the list goes
            on.”

            Many minorities do take up important posts and reach great success in China and celebrity/CEO status in relation to their population such as Huis, Manchus and Koreans. If you don’t even know this fact nor have the ability to tell the difference between the different ethnicities in China, why bother? You’re just embarrassing yourself trying to be smart when you’re not. In fact, the minorities shouldn’t even be called minorities since many like Zhuang are racially not that different from Hans.

            There is no native American president, no Asian, no Indian, no Middle Eastern. Obama is half black and he’s already blasted like hell in his own country.

            Why target China? The correct answer is you’re a bitter racist with major inferiority complexes vs the Chinese. I’m just pointing out what you’ve been doing while all you’ve done is projected what you actually are to me. I don’t delight in telling Westerners about their historical flaws as much as you and Percy the hobo were humping each other over China’s colonization of Tibet. Yet you’re still in America and ignoring the native’s plea of GTFO.

            What have I stated about ethnic Europeans that was so disgusting? What type of ethnic European are you? Did I attack it? Cause it’s unlikely. It’s good to know that you despise racism. Because that’s exactly what you are. Disgusting, accusatory, narrow-minded and racist.

          • POS

            On the CCP standing committee name one ethnic minority… Obama is African American, twice elected, you argument is null and void. Gary Locke embassador and former governor of one America’s largest states. Again you know nothing about America.

            And why is it that CHinese minorities always flee to the West yet native Americans would never flee to China? That s because you and your gverment are racist opressive thugs while the USA is genuinly open and pluralistic.

            So again racist, before you talk you need to acknowedge the Hans have colonized Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Liaoning, Qinghai, Jilin, Heilongjiang, and the other lands. You are still nothing but an obvious hypocrite and a sad bitter little racist man, insecure vis-a-vis the white man. GTFO or STFU :)

          • Whaddashack

            I know more than you will ever do. Coming from the most inferior complexed hairy neckbeard you’ll ever see. You can’t even tell the difference between a Chinese or an ethnic minority and yet dare open your mouth. You know your own natives are being oppressed but turn a blind eye and prefer to talk about what others are doing instead.

            Hui Liangyu, Vice Premier of the PRC.
            Yang Rong, celebrity, actress, model

            Li Yongtai, Deputy Commander of PLAAF

            On the contrary, most ethnic minorities are in control of their own autonomous regions, many are guaranteed work as tour guides, teachers and athletes (sponsored entirely by the government) while your natives are cramped in reserves and raped by disgusting White men with itchy hands and a vibrating cock.

            Most ethnic minorities are quite content and few “flee” to America. And that’s why they are so rare in America. In fact, the number of immigrations from Chinese, even Han is dropping significantly and hopefully China can reach the success of Taiwan, HK, Japan, Singapore, etc. and so that very few would migrate to the US while restricting too many White males from entering the country. Win-win situation for me and you.

            There’s nothing oppressive about me since I don’t represent the government nor am I part of them. I’ve also done far more for China, and incidentally ethnic minorities, then you ever will who spend all his days laughing at sweatshop workers with your freckly men and big wimminz. You don’t even help native Americans, bitter little racist man ;)

            So kindly lead by example and STFU or GTFO the US.

          • Eidolon

            It is counter productive to argue vs. revisionism with revisionism. Saying Liaoning was long part of the Korean nation and that you can find Korean speakers and ethnic Koreans everywhere there is absurd. Liaoning’s population of Koreans and Korean speakers is tiny and Korea controlled the region for several hundred years at best in the 1st millennium AD.

            For the bulk of time, Liaoning was a frontier zone populated by mixed populations of Tungusic and Mongolic peoples, with Chinese and Koreans having pockets of settlements but rarely full control.

            Your knowledge of history is itself quite lacking, which then makes your critique of Chinese ignorance of it rather ironic.

          • percymay

            What’s your problem, boy?

            I don’t know you.
            I didn’t address any comments to you.

            There are over 1.1 million Chinese in Africa.
            There are over 6 million Chinese in the US.
            There are over 2.5 million Chinese in Canada.
            There are over 700,000 Chinese in France.
            There are over 500,000 Chinese in England.
            There are over 900,000 Chinese in Russia.
            There are over 70,000 Chinese in Mexico and Jamaica.

            If anyone needs to “get out” it’s the Chinese.

            Who are you to tell anyone to “Get the fuck out of my land!”?

          • Whaddashack

            No, what’s YOUR problem? This is a site about China, and it has NOTHING to do with your huge, hairy hooked nose. Even if you enjoy sticking it in other people’s faces.

            Here’s the reality. There are:
            6 million Europeans in Africa.
            200 million Europeans in the US.
            30 million Europeans in Canada.
            6 million in China. (Based on abdi)
            300,000 in Japan.
            60,000 in Korea.Over a million in South East Asia.
            Over 20 million “Russians” in Siberia, 400,000 Germanic.
            92 million in Brazil and Peru.

            This excludes the hundreds of thousands of military personnel around Africa,the Middle East and Asia, often unwanted.

            So by your own logic, it’s Europeans who should “get the fuck out”, starting from America. Of course, European is a broad term for a variety of ethnics. Of course you
            could be any one of those, but for lack of pride and culture, you remain an anonymous coward. Ironically, it was you who labelled the Chinese cowards when they showed far more courage in the face of the Japanese than typical Europeans.And funnily enough you shied away from my challenge to you, because let’s face
            it, that’s what it all was about. Your own delusional, jingoistic fantasies.Remember that next time you even dare to put yourself on the same level as a Japanese nor do they ever need you. It’s a racial thing, you’re closest relatives are Jihadist Moslems durrr.

            Who am I you ask? Someone who calls out a mouth-foaming hypocrite and bitter troll for what he is. Those words were the words of the extremely oppressed native Americans. And using your values for Tibet (which you’ve never helped develop in your entire shitty life), they have every right to ask you to leave. Now pack up, get your grossly obese family and friends and get the hell out.
            And try not to crawl to Asia. You’re not wanted there either.

          • mr.wiener

            So you are saying everyone should go back to their ancestral lands?

          • TJDubs

            That means every human has to go back to Africa.

          • Whaddashack

            Wouldn’t be so sure. It’s clear Caucasians like Europeans and Middle Easterners came from the apes in Africa; but apparently Chinese, like most others of that race, evolved separately, from a different ape, indigenous to Asia.

          • TJDubs

            I noticed that as well, that the Out-of-Africa theory doesn’t have many supporters among Chinese (that I’ve talked to). I suppose it doesn’t jibe well with Han exceptionalism.

            Many even seem to believe that different races of humans are different species.

          • Whaddashack

            Yeah, that’s what I was talking about. Apparently, there are fossils and other evidence suggesting this. This is very new to me, only recently did I learn the amazing fact that Whites are close cousins of negroids, and Chinese belong to a race called the mongoloids. They say that’s the most advanced, evolved race of all and includes the Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Thais, Viets, Yakuts, Native Americans etc.

            That race has amazing properties not found in other races like enhanced intelligence, artistic talent, less body hair and smell and what they call civilized behavior.

            Maybe that might help in proving this unique Chinese origin theory many in China seem to have.

          • TJDubs

            So, being more divergent from the same African origin makes a race more advanced? This means that Native Americans are even more advanced than the amazing intelligence-enhanced Asian “Mongoloid” population. How has this advancement, as you call it, benefited those peoples?

            While mainstream scientific racism fell out of fashion in the West in the past 60 years, it seems to be alive and well in Asia. Get over it. You’re human, like the other 7 billion on this planet, and you don’t have special powers.

          • Whaddashack

            Don’t get me wrong. I used the word apparently for a reason. It doesn’t show in type but I was sarcastic. I was just quoting some “research” and discussions I saw a couple of Asians having (about the divergence) and remembering what I “learned” from some Chinese friends about their “unique” origins. If you were laughing at their over the top theories, I was actually laughing with you. If you were with me, I think we’d both be in danger of laughing out loud and shocking these friends. Nothing like a 19 year old girl trying to explain the origins of humanity in a mom knows best tone, so convinced she was right. And with her friends nodding in agreement. Did you know we evolved from monkeys, one species for one continent? :)

          • Anon E Moose

            Sure they have a special power: $2+ trillion in foreign reserves.

          • Anon E Moose

            Nope. It would mean that they owe Black People something.

            Better to regard them as stupid & deserving to be taken advantage of by crafty trade deals.

            Don’t even tell them that on their, on everyone’s mother’s side, the evidence of Black ancestry is overwhelming

          • Whaddashack

            Nope, but those that think others need to go back, even when they lived there for a few generations need a reality check. They ought to lead by example if they really cared so much.

          • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

            “Those words were the words of the extremely oppressed native Americans.”

            A Native American stands up on a ledge, with a tear in his eye, staring off into the horizon behind the viewer’s perspective. An eagle cries and a mysterious flute plays a haunting tune. He turns, nods approvingly to Whaddashack, who is standing wearing all black, swooped hair over his eyes, a constantly furrowed brow. A couple of younger warrior Native Americans then proceed to club Whaddashack’s legs until he falls, and then begin scalping him alive. Whaddashack lets out a sustained, high-pitched scream until the warriors finally quiet him with a giant rock. They then reach down, pick up their pack, and start making their way back toward the human ancestral lands of Africa alongside every other human being in the world.

          • Whaddashack

            Nice fantasy, but it’s not happening. Native Americans are far more civilized than what certain people think. They happen to be more respectful than those very people too. :)

          • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

            Not a fantasy, it’s fan fiction.

          • Whaddashack

            Needs more characters. But otherwise good job ;)

      • Can’t remember my username

        Original quote:
        “Who has China invaded in history?”

        Again you change the argument to suit your agenda. You’ve changed it from Chinese to Han Chinese, even though around 90% of China is apparently descended from the Han and you’ve conveniently forgotten about the so-called 5,000 years of continuous history myth.

        Would you like a list of invasions and border provocations instigated by the Chinese since Mao? You know Mao; podgy guy, murdered millions of Chinese, had a thing for underage peasant chicks.

        • Chom

          Original quote:
          “Who has China invaded in history?”

          That’s no my quote. If you’d read all I’ve written here you’d know I acknowledge expansionism during various dynasties.

          Ok, go ahead with you list since 1949, none of them represent a war of conquest though. I’ve already summarized them all in another post, but go ahead. Even high-ranking U.S officials will acknowledge Chinese defensive strategy.

      • Dick Leigh

        Wow. Tell the Vietnamese that China never tried to invade them and see where that gets you.

      • Anon E Moose

        Korea in 1950 was. Once the PLA crossed the 38th parallel they were in SOUTH Korean territory. That’s an invasion.

        1979 Vietnam was a full-scale invasion, complete w/ the PLA, heavy artillery, tanks, bombings by the PLA air force on Russian ships in harbor. The hilarious aspect of that was the very BEST of the PLA could not defeat an improvised VN militia consisting of border guards, custom agents, and the Red Pioneers (i.e. boy scouts).

        PLA lost 40,000 dead in only a 6 month campaign. They retreated after giving the Viets a “lesson” (i.e. That the PLA can’t fight). Now *THAT’S* an invasion!

        Russia, Tibet, Vietnam, Korea, India, Burma, A buncha countries in Central Asia.

        It was in a a battle in Central Asia that China lost it’s bid for regional domination. Arabs controlled that region not China for quite a while.

        Oh yeah, the ancient non-Han kingdom of Yueh, which stretched from the Yang-tse river down to the South China sea.

        This last one is an instructive lesson for all of China’s southern neighbors, who watch nervously to the north.

        The PRC currently has a short-fall of food for about 300+ million. What will China do once it cannot afford for pay for imported food ? A powerful incentive for striking south to maintain civil order.

        Most laughable of all: The only time “China” ever dominated a large portion of the globe was under the Yuan/Mongol dynasty. There Chinese engineers/Experts and infantry fodder assisted the Mongol hordes in wiping out Islamic civilization in what is now Iran. So IOW, Chinese greatest success in War… non-Han foreigners were largely resonsible.

        Some things never, ever change, now do they ?

      • Concerned for Common Sense

        Han invaded Vietnam four separate times. Plus, it invaded and conquered the Western provinces and what is now called Taiwan. Of course it has expanded. It was an empire! That’s what empires do! Ask where the Wall of China is? Is the Wall the limits of modern China? No? Why not? Because of continual expansion.

    • POS

      Liaoning province is mostly Korean territory for one. Chinese don’t know their own history so well, or at least approach it in a critical manner. There are many Korean nationalist that want that land back.

      • Terrik

        liaoning has been Chinese territory since the Ming dynasty, then u der the Manchus and then, naturally back under greater Chinese rule. That’s a good 600-700 years where Koreans weren’t in control of it.

        • POS

          The point is it was terra nulius when Koreans discovered it and hence is Korean territory for eternity. It needs to be returned to its rightful owners (by Chinese logic).

          • Terrik

            Ahhh…I get it.

          • POS

            You see Chinese logic is very dangerous in the hands of a Westerner who actually knows a bit of history. Suddenly a lot of inconvenient facts come to light.

        • percymay

          You need to re-read your history.

          • Terrik

            Feel free to show me a link where I’m wrong.

          • Ralphrepo

            One needs to find one’s own links in the true spirit of being a historian, if one cares more about history then political rhetoric. Having said that, the various iterations of China through the ages was perfectly expansionist and colonial, even naming their possessions as “pacified south” and taking tributes in gold and flesh. What’s interesting here is how Chinese nationalist adherents selectively read certain types of manufactured “history” that aligns with their own opinions and then decide to regard it as undeniable fact. This all reminds me of the Chinese penchant for rewriting the previous dynasty’s history when certain aspects of it were politically inconvenient.

        • Eidolon

          Both of you are wrong.

          First of all, Koreans did not discover Liaoning. There were no Koreans when Liaoning was discovered by cave men. POS was trying to be tongue in cheek in parodying China’s absurd terra nulius stance on various Pacific islands, which is clever but for the fact that continental territory – which was fought over and migrated into repeatedly through history – is fundamentally different from uninhabitable rocks that no one claimed till the age of underwater oil and EEZs.

          Second, Liaoning has not been Chinese territory since the Ming dynasty. The Ming controlled the Liaodong Peninsula and a thin strip stretching from Shanhaiguan, but not the regions further north. Yet the Ming was not the first to achieve this, out of the Chinese dynasties. Rather, the Han was the first dynasty that established control over the region, and before them the Zhou vassal state of Yan.

          However, the Han also established control over northern Korea, yet no one in China thinks that’s Chinese territory today.

          The best argument against irridentism vis-a-vis continental territory is not the logic of terra nulius, but simply the amount of times it switched hands. No country has a fundamental claim over territory, because no country gained its present territory but by taking it away from others.

    • percymay

      Chinese never ask themselves why is Xinjiang called “Xinjiang” (“New Territory”). This “new territory” belonged to somebody before the Chinese invaded.

      Neither do the Chinese ask themselves why the Xinjiang people (新疆人) call themselves Uighur instead of Hans.

      No, of course, the Hans never invade anyone.

    • Tom

      China has invaded vietnam for centuries. And they lost constantly.

      • Anon E Moose

        Erm… yeah. Well at least they keep at being consistent…

  • someguy

    It’s very interesting to me to see so many pro-Japan, pro-US comments left by the Chinese netizens. Unfortunately, you’d never see that many pro-China comments (or any at all, for that matter) left by Japanese netizens over at Japancrush.

    • POS

      For good reason.

  • Jahar

    Imagine an American made movie expressing American values. I don’t think it’s really possible to write a story without your values being apparent in your works in some manner.

    Someone pointed out that Asia has become less less peaceful since the US’ pivot. I haven’t seen that much fighting, but I guess he knows best.

    • Kai

      I think he’s referring to some of the SEA showdowns with the Phillipines and whatever in recent years. What he’s forgetting is China’s actions contributing to such showdowns.

    • POS

      Whats changed in the past few years is increasing arrognce on the part of the PRC, but it is easier to blame it on the USA than look at oneself and question if stealing islands 100km from Manila is a bad policy choice.

      • percymay

        This may be a little off-topic, but China’s previous invasions or non-invasions will be a moot point in the near to middle future.

        Interesting discussions in war planning circles are taking place regarding the breakup of China after a nuclear war. The breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire after WW I are used as templates.

        A number of countries (the US, Japan, India, Russia, the EU, etc.) believe China has become too big, too strong, and too rich for the world to deal with. After a nuclear war, this would be the an opportunity to see China decided into more “manageable” pieces.

        For the simple and naive people who believe otherwise, there will be a nuclear war and the world will still exist.

        “The Breakup of China: With an Account of its Present Commerce, Currency, Waterways, Armies, Railways, Politics, and Future Prospects” by Lord Charles Beresford was written in 1899. In the last ten years, this book has seen several reprints.

        The views of the author are being reconsidered from the opposite view of the author’s intentions.

        The US Pivot to Asia and its Air-Sea Battle (ASB) Plan are designed with China’s breakup in mind.

        PRC propaganda is not important, it will be seen in the future the same way 1930s Nazi propaganda is seen today.

        “Winter is coming.”

        • Chom

          Interesting. Any sources?

          • percymay

            Sure, go to the search engines and look for “breakup China.”

        • Q Ball

          The USA will breakup first. The mexicans are already taking back their stolen land by illegal immigration.

          • POS

            You obviously have very little understanding of America or American culture.

          • http://singedrac.livejournal.com Singe

            Mexican immigration (legal and illegal) has been more or less steady for the past half century if not more. The only difference is suddenly the media is foaming at the mouth about it, whipping up gullible racists into a frenzy.

          • Q Ball

            U do realize the states Mexicans are immigrating to are the same states that were stolen from them. Its NO COINCIDENCE. It’s a God given assignment to take back their home country! They are using the same strategy as whites used 200 years ago! Population explosion to gain majority and then ownership of the land! USA will break up before China.

        • POS

          Chinese culture would like become more dynamic and progressive if what is now the PRC became a series of smaller sub-states, also less belligerent and imperialistic as it is now. There are a number of Chinese who make this argument as well citing the Song Dynasty as one of the most progressive eras in Chinese history when China was also divided. Honestly that would be best for Asia and the world IMHO.

  • the ace of books

    Oh, liking these comments! They fly very nicely in the face of the opinion I’ve seen around, that one of “Chinese can’t think for themselves”. Nope, kids, and here’s the proof.

    Also, when did mechas become mainstream? I haven’t seen this movie, and I don’t particular want to – looks like same-old-same-old.

    • Kai

      If you do see it, try to see it on IMAX. It needs a big screen.

      I’d say mechs have been reasonably mainstream ever since Voltron and then things like Power Rangers. Or at least part of people’s consciousness, especially if exposed as children.

      • Irvin

        I was exposed much earlier to transformers.

        • Kai

          Yeah, but sticklers will say those are robots, not mechs. ;) I don’t remember if I was exposed to Voltron or Transformers first. I just remember both being part of my childhood and always wanting the really nice metal (not plastic) original series Optimus.

          • http://singedrac.livejournal.com Singe

            I had a Golion (Voltron) lunchbox as a kid. After I grew out of the age of having a lunchbox, my dad still used it to carry his lunch to work. :D

          • Kai

            LoL, dad’s a practical man. I thing I had a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles lunch box at a time when it was cooler to bring your own lunch than buy the school’s lunch.

          • moop

            the blue one or the grey one? this is very important stuff

          • Kai

            Uh, were there only two TMNT lunch box colors? I’m pretty sure they were tons of TMNT licensed lunch box merchandise?

            I think mine was blue plastic though.

          • moop

            i am assuming we are the same age. 1989 TMNT was blue or gray, and red as well, i forgot that one. According to ebay the gray ones were rare…Was yours Thermos brand?

          • Kai

            I’m 32 this year, a “post-80s generation” guy. I think mine was Thermos indeed but I don’t remember for sure.

  • RothschildIsMoney

    Chinese still care Hollywood? that thing is crap. Stop watching it!

  • that guy

    a Chinese publication commenting on propaganda is just laughable. reinforces the often-held notion that China is always capable of examining others, but never itself.

    • POS

      Very true, self criticism and reflection is only something you do if you offend the communist party… there is no reward for critical thinking in China.

  • Michael

    China: Waaaaaa Waaaaaaaaa…waaaaaa…

  • aubrey

    Who cares? If you don’t like the movie then don’t watch it! I don’t watch Chinese propaganda films! If you don’t like the American ones, then don’t watch them.

    • Whaddashack

      Exactly. So stop marketing to the Chinese, duh. Most seemed to enjoy the movie regardless. For comparison, Pacific Rim barely made any impact in Japan (understandable, since their mecha movies are infinitely better), while it made reasonable sales in China. Quite good actually. As for the movie itself, I only watched it for the homage to Japanese media and the Asian cast. Without them, this movie would suck even more.

  • 剑胆琴心

    now japanese works are hot in US films.from the hunger game to this…
    old chinese action can not catch eyes nowadays…
    as i said, they are good story tellers…high imagination…but,too island minded, US film makers put more good spirit and value inside,then it’s great…

  • Probotector

    …and Chinese say we think too much.

  • Eurotrash

    PLA Daily is correct.

    • POS

      Sinotrash?

  • Claude

    How refreshing was this post coming from a Chinese person? Clearly someone has acquired a real education.

    From the translations, above.

    “Without Japan’s 30 years of interest-free loans,would China have it’s current level of development?Wasn’t Shanghai’s highest building, the Shanghai world financial center, built with investment from The Japanese? What is this notion of Japanese militarization? having A national defense force is every country’s basic right, recognized by the United Nations.”

    I’ve had that exact conversation with Chinese people several times. I’ve pointed out that Japanese No or Low interest loans have been a hugely important step in China’s development and people in China don’t believe that these loans even have existed. “LIAR!” I’ve been told. I’ve told them that Japan want China to be prosperous so they become great trading partners, it’s in their best interest having a next door neighbor that doing well. They don’t even believe it. I’ve also said Japan has a right to have a military like China or any nation has a right too. It’s not in their best interest to get into a war etc… They flip out!. The CCP has done a fantastic job convincing the people of China that Japanese are going to invade again.

    • POS

      I’m almost thinking that that was a Japanese expat writing lol… I’ve been called a 汉奸 on Chinese comment sections before because they coudn’t process that a white American was reading their non-sense and calling out the BS.

      • Whaddashack

        Nah, most likely Chinese. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of Japanese expats in China, they make up the third largest expat group. And most don’t complain, whine and cause nearly as much trouble as the White expats there. That comment has a certain mindset to it that screams a certain type of Chinese.

        • POS

          I like those “certain types of Chinese” more than a racist wumao like yourself. We are here to stay in Asia, more of us coming everyday. Learn to live with it because this is the reality.

          • Whaddashack

            On the contrary, I’m no wumao but you’re definitely Ameripatriot nationalist.

            I can agree with a bit of levelheadedness and reason, and thus have respect for some of the posters above. I don’t turn down facts easily. Those guys have my admiration.

            However, the problem comes about when you’re being overly critical and favor other countries over your own all the time. I’m sure you’ve met those people, your posts indicate how much you dislike them. Likewise, how can one expect to respect others if they don’t know how to respect themselves?

            I don’t know about the more of you coming everyday though. Asians do have pride in themselves and despise crime. I don’t mind foreigners coming into China, just wouldn’t accept the criminal ones. Would you accept terrorists into your country?

          • POS

            So Americans in China are terrorists and criminals? And you claim not to be racist? America welcomes Asian immigrants, I sure do because they will make America stronger and contribute to our cultural soft power. Plus Asian and American cultures are very compatible.

            As for history you can respect yourself and love your country without lying about your history and trying to pretend you country is something its not. I criticize America, our policies and our people all the time. But this site is about China hence the topic is naturally China. And China tend to be highly revisionist about their own history which is unacceptable. Thus when we discuss Chinese history and Chinese hyper-nationalists or Han-supremacists try to white wash Chinese history and instead try to turn the discussion to America and her sin I have to call BS because it is such a typical tactic. I’m not saying Chinese shit stinks more than American shit, I’m saying both our shit stinks but you pretend Chinese shit is roses. Its laughable.

            Yes, more and more of us are coming to Asia each year, you can see it one the streets and in the statistics. We aren’t going away, welcome to the 21st century.

          • Whaddashack

            Sure you criticize your politics; but I’m talking about certain Chinese with a very bad habit of ALWAYS criticizing themselves and favoring other countries over their own. Even you dislike such people. I don’t hate them, I’m concerned this fantasizing of other people will turn into self-hate, which is never a good thing. Especially to a group of people as rash and naive as the Chinese. I’m concerned for their own welfare.They are not Americans who gladly trample on the rights of the natives while foaming at the mouth and cursing said oppressed group.

            You mistake me. I’ve always felt Americans and Asians have compatible cultures. All I’m saying is China should have the right to be extra selective who they let into the country the same way America screens potential immigrants for terrorism. I was shocked to see how many foreigners supported easy visas inspite of a pedophile teaching in China. One English teacher was noble enough to get this man out of the country but so many jumped on him and attacked him. My reaction? Not impressed with the crop of said foreigners.

            Of course you needn’t worry as this doesn’t include you nor your fantasies. Harsh reality is you’re living in your American trailer with PercyGay sucking your birdy.

          • POS

            You need to grasp that this site is dedicated to China related news and the discussion naturally revolves around china. Why do you pretend that China is some kind of victim here? Sure there are racists and genuine China bashers here just as there are Han-supremacists and fenqing hyper nationalists. But this isn’t a site about America and criticizing Chinese policy or aspects of the modern society has nothing to do with white washing America, that is just a construction in your own mind due to you insecurity complex towards whites and America.

          • percymay

            In the US, we have a strange group of freaks called “wiggers.” These are young whites who try to emulate or acquire the worst of American-blacks cultural behavior or taste. These whites are wannabe “niggers,”

            It appears that chinaSMACK has an in-house “chigger” – a Canadian-black who wants to be Chinese. Because he’s a native English speaker, his job at chinaSMACK is to insult and intimidate anyone, especially foreign whites, who criticizes China or Chinese culture.

            Because chinaSMACK does not have the in-house staff (五毛) with English skills or background to deal with the numerous critical views or anti-China comments coming from North America, Australia, or England, it outsources to its “chigger.”

            This in-house clown goes by the name Whaddashack but he will change names according to the volume of negative or anti-China views posted on chinaSMACK.

            This clown employs the technique developed and refined by American-blacks to intimidate whites from questioning the dysfunctional conditions in black society. First, intimidate the whites by insulting or using coarse language; next, change the subject to white misdeeds throughout history; finally, select some minor or insignificant event that shows the superiority and genius of the non-whites.

            Chigger-boy will not indulge in an intellectual give-and-take. He cannot. His limited knowledge of history and shallow English skills prevent this.

            Basically, this is the best that chinaSMACK can do. Unfortunately, with the growing interest in China and the Chinese people, this blog only shows the negative, vulgar, and nasty side of Chinese society without any rational explanation.

            The insulting “nationalist” trolls on chinaSMACK are a reflection of the intellectual inferiority of many Chinese.

          • Whaddashack

            I think it’s a site that as the site owners put, shows how the views of the foreign population matches Chinese internet. But I’ve noticed a difference. Chinese comments are a lot more reasonable and varied. I’m afraid the worst there makes your best comment seem smart.

            Knowing this, do you really think I have any inferiority complex towards you, or to the guy with multiple names that hates himself? Bear in mind that “nigger-hater” below is more similar to them and so are you, yet hates his own black folk. They hate him too, but that’s beside the point. He is such a racist, if only to himself, but so are you. I wouldn’t want to be White, I’m glad I’m who I am. There goes your fantasy :)

          • POS

            Well you are right about one thing out of all the racist BS you’ve said: I am an American patriot, proud to be a citizen of the greatest country on this planet and USA will continue leading the world in the 21st century. Haters gonna hate but you ain’t nothing but a sad racist :P

          • Whaddashack

            The only racist BS and insecurity is your own. The only good screw you’ll get is from your lovers like PercyGay and his other “non-White” accounts. Yes, be a proud American patriot, but why the inferiority complex and jealousy regarding Chinese being proud and comfortable with themselves? Could it be that you know who your betters are? Most Chinese don’t give a yanky-doodle about your beer gut and your great White American no-pride. So stop hatin’ and do better.

  • markus peg

    They are looking too much into things, making mountains out of molehills..

    The Chinese comments arent what i expected though i feel a few of the above comments were made by foreigners on a Chinese message board.

    I felt the overtone of the movie was more about having a world united vs the aliens.

  • Guy In China

    Let me get this straight, the PLA is wondering why a movie that’s made in America highlights American values as opposed to Chinese values? It’s almost as if they expect to walk into a McDonalds, order burgers and fries, complain that it doesn’t have any shark fins in the patty and that it’s stealing customers of Chinese restaurants as part of some grand scheme to dominate the local culture through the export of America fast food culture.

    It is a battle of culture and it is a battle that China is losing badly. The reason is the current Chinese state does not promote the creation of NEW culture, instead culture revolves around the state and Party. China believes that it can export its ancient culture while forgetting that what made China’s ancient culture stand the test of time is because when those ancient traditions were first created, they were cutting edge and trendy, just like the current American culture.

    If China will not win this cultural war because Chinese culture has been rather stagnant for the last 60 years. (unless you count Party culture as progress)

    • RagnarDanneskjold

      Also, a lot of what passes for new culture in China is simply rehashed American cultural imperialism. This is China’s great weakness: it cannot fight America’s left-wing cultural imperialism because it is itself left-wing. It is only from the right, from China’s traditional culture, that America/the West can be opposed. This is why Putin is elevating the Orthodox Church and passing laws that piss off the West. The Chinese Communists were smarter for moving away from Communism, but the Russians have figured out the long game.

  • Anonimo645

    Yeah, talking about the movie i think this is some sort of overreaction.
    The chinese Jaeger was good and all the Jaegers, and it was stated that all the remaining jaegers, even the russian one were very competent in what they did.
    And the japanese stuff?
    For christ sake, it was a kaiju movie! of course they will have some japanese element in it!

    • Q Ball

      Pacific rim is a good movie about a white handsome male getting the pretty Japanese girl. Because White American male is more attractive than Japanese male, more handsome plus he saves the world. He then makes babies and creates self-hating half-asian sons. The Japanese male got Rimmed.

  • Q Ball

    Asians unfortunately aren’t as succesful in imperialism as others have ever been. China took 2000 years to go to modern china.

    Why are there whites in North America and Australia? There is only one imperialist race and that is the whites.

    All whites go back to Europe!

    • http://500px.com/justinrjones whiskersthecat

      No

    • RagnarDanneskjold

      China has been an imperialist since Qin Shihuang came on the scene. Today, China controls Tibet, Xinjiang, part of Mongolia, Manchuria and claims Taiwan. The Japanese conquered most of Asia only 75 years ago.. The only difference with Europe is that the Europeans covered more distance with their imperialism.

      • Q Ball

        Whites are so much more succesfull in imperialism. Even today whites have military bases EVERYWHERE. Even in Japan, Philipines, Korea. Whites have also conquered TWO ENTIRE continents. China could only hope to be as succesfull. China has conquered tibet only, a small mountainous region worth…. like nothing?? Compared to the lands of North America and Australia (lets forget South America as the people there are brownish), Tibet is worth nothing. And why the heck are half the people in South Africa white? Looks like they conquered parts of Africa also! Africa is for brownish/black people its warm… whites do NOT belong there, they will get sunburned. Whites are the true imperialists!

        • Chris Granzow XI

          “…And why the heck are half the people in South Africa white?..”

          What in the world are you talking about? Only 6% of south africa is white (not nearly “half” as you say) and most of them face violent genocide and ethnic cleansing. Do some research.
          cnn: ireport. cnn. com/docs/DOC-997705

        • hess

          “whites do NOT belong there, they will get sunburned.” funniest thing i’ve read in a long time

        • John

          White are stronger, smarter, overall better, deal with it.

    • POS

      No thanks, in fact we are coming to Asia now, I’m here as we speak… they are loading boat loads of us whiteys on those empty COSTCO freighters and shipping us over here. It is a secret CIA plan, but you arent white so I cant tell you the details… suffice to say we come for your women and plunder lad!

      • Chris Granzow XI

        Don’t say that…he might really believe you.

      • percymay

        There are over a million Chinese in Africa today.

        I wonder why they are in Africa.

        • Whaddashack

          And 6 million Europeans in Africa. Go back to Europe. And stay the hell out of China. No Chinese is migrating to Europe voluntarily, but those Muslims, Arabs, Indians, Pakistanis and Blacks sure are.

          • mr.wiener

            “No Chinese is migrating to Europe voluntarily”

            Uh…dude, I’m afraid you night need a reality check on that one.

          • Whaddashack

            Voluntarily*. Maybe the NO CHINESE was incorrect, but it certainly is something most would not do and only as a last resort.

    • John

      “Why are there whites in North America and Australia?”

      Because the European countries were far more advanced than the rest of the world back then, they conquered and invaded inferior countries.
      In fact 90% of what exist today, from fork to satellites, were created by White people, so if you hate us so much please stop using all of these great inventions, go back to live in a brick house without electricity, without tap water, without cooking gas, you will now use a bicycle because cars are a White invention, also please stop using Internet because the man who created the Arpa network ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET ) was White. From now on instead of using your phone you will send letters to your friends, if you need to travel please don’t use airplane or bullet train/maglev because these are White creations, more important than anything else replace the toilets in your apartment for a good old squat, and so-on…

  • 清源

    不知道这些发言的都是日台水军在中国论坛叫局吗,翻译一大堆,全是些不入流的群盲观点,可笑。

  • Neobooper

    Basically they just jealous they cant make a movie this good and entertaining. If they said Hollywood used by US Government as propaganda tool, Hey PLA, no one stops you from making awesome movie to do your propaganda too.

  • Chris Granzow XI

    I wonder what an in-depth analysis of Sixteen Candles from this guy would sound like..

  • Eimi1003

    Chinese people getting their panties in a wad over a film…how utterly brainwashed and stupid! I loved the film- because I liked the action and the human relationships between the characters. Chinese people and their government need to lighten up! I guess they’re easily irritated because not everything in China is as wonderful as CCP claims???????

  • mattman_183

    Don’t worry yourselves, you crazy PLA Daily. Chinese theatergoers made this one shot film into a sequel. Pacific Rim 2 might as well be called “Pacific China.”

  • mattman_183

    Spoiler alert:

    The only point this guy has is that the fight with the Chinese and Russian Jaegers was a little too short. That being said, there were fighting 2 level 4′s for the first time, at the same time, right?

    Apparently, the director’s cut has more of a backstory of the other pilots including the Russians (who are husband and wife), and the Chinese bros.

  • Jin&Tonic

    America are the biggest propaganda machine in the world!

    • POS

      An inferiority complex is a lack of self-worth, a doubt and uncertainty, and feeling of not measuring up to society’s standards. It is often subconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extreme antisocial behavior.[1] The term was coined to indicate a lack of covert self esteem.[2] For many, it is developed through a combination of genetic personality characteristics and personal experiences.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferiority_complex

      • Whaddashack

        You enjoy self-introductions don’t you. You described yourself perfectly, as always.

  • Gus Wang

    and since when china needs american propaganda? China loves to suck USA balls. you can walk around there and see how many girls wearing clothes with usa’s flag pattern and bags too. do they know that if they go to USA they won’t see anyone carrying their country’s flag?

    • Probotector

      “you can walk around there and see how many girls wearing clothes with usa’s flag pattern and bags too”

      Yeah, but they don’t actually know what it is, or care.

  • mattman_183

    Spoiler Alert!

    A Geeks Response to The PLA Daily or Everything You Said About Pacific Rim is Wrong

    “The pilots’ smaller
    stories actually make a bigger point, which is that we’re all together in the
    same robot [in life]… Either we get along or we die. I didn’t want this to be
    a recruitment ad or anything jingoistic. The idea of the movie is just for us
    to trust each other, to cross over barriers of color, sex, beliefs, whatever,
    and just stick together.”

    - Guillermo del Toro Mexican director and self-proclaimed
    pacifist of Pacific Rim

    And now…This guy!

    Recently,
    America’s science-fiction blockbuster Pacific Rim has been popular in [China's]
    theaters. It’s still the old plot of American (Global) warriors saving the world in the face of disaster, still
    produced by way of computer generated effects plus 3D animation, (What’s the alternative?) and still
    with exciting exaggerated spectacles that are startling but without danger.
    There aren’t many new selling points with this movie, but the United States’
    Asia-Pacific strategy reflected in the movie is worth thinking about. (No, it’s really not, but I’m sure you’re
    going to anyways)

    At a critical moment during a Kaiju attack,
    the American (British) Jaeger pilot
    saves the Japanese girl Mako. Trained by the Americans,(Stacker is British) Mako then also becomes a Jaeger pilot. After
    defeating the Kaiju, she hugs her wounded American partner and emotionally
    says, “I don’t want to let you go”, which reminds us of the real world US-Japan
    alliance. (No, she says, “Don’t go.” Several
    times which reminds us of what people say when somebody dies) To defeat the
    Kaiju, America once again plays the role of the savior and world police,(It never shows America taking the lead in
    the movie) seizing the opportunity to deploy multiple Jaegers around
    the Pacific Rim,(They weren’t deployed
    to the Pacific Rim, many pacific rim countries made them themselves to protect
    their own people.) persuading other nations to invest huge amounts of money
    to build 300-meter-high defensive walls. (The
    entire world agrees to do this. Remember the multi After the failure of the
    Jaeger program and losing the labor and financial support of its European allies
    (The UN), they then team up with
    some Pacific island countries. (They
    didn’t team up. They were in the same fight for years. The Jaegers who gathered
    together were from the “island countries” of Russia, China, The US, and
    Australia….did I mention China?)

    The key battle in which they thoroughly defeat
    the Kaiju is “cleverly” chosen to be the South China Sea adjoining Hong Kong. (Having a film in the Pacific in a movie
    called Pacific Rim is clever?) So (Presumed)
    American Jaegers (one Jaeger and no,
    many Jaegers with pilots from many countries did) protected Hong Kong,
    stabilized the Asia-Pacific, and saved humanity. Americans (Two German guys) are busy researching the Kaiju and saving humanity,
    but in Hong Kong, China, food, medicine, and handcrafts made of Kaiju meat,
    skin, internal organs, and bones are instead hot commodities, where even
    the plump parasites on the Kaiju bodies have become delicious tastes
    on the tongue [delicacies],
    continuing the practice of belittling and mocking China.(Funny, this article does the same thing.)

    Hollywood has always been America’s best
    propaganda machine,who have absorbed its understanding of America’s strategies
    into its bones. (What’s America’s
    version of SARFT?) Hollywood spares no effort in picking materials for its
    blockbusters and propagating American values and global strategy. (Chinese movies are financially backed by
    the state who are sure to instill “Chinese Values” in films sacrificing
    quality.) For example, Ice Age seized
    upon the current issue of global climate change that various nations have
    argued without resolution;(That was
    natural climate change, not the pollution driven one which is debated today) Die Another Day vilified and insulted North Korea
    by depicting it as an “Axis of Evil” country;(Newsflash: The rest of the world vilifies and insults North Korea.)
    while Lord of War had the contest between the United
    States and Russia to be the “world’s largest arms trafficker” as its
    background.(How does this “propaganda”
    make the US look good?) American blockbusters not only suck away billions
    of yuan from China every year,(Uh…Chinese movie only months, offering
    theater managers rewards for higher domestic movie sales, requiring schools and
    workers to see certain patriotic films…who is really sucking?) what’s more terrible is that they secretly
    plant Western values in China’s youth, just as former United States Secretary
    of State Hilary Clinton said, ”What’s more important is that we have China’s
    youth learn how to think with American values, and to use American systems and
    rules to do things.” (Can anyone find
    this quote?) So it appears that Pacific Rim, in its
    subject-matter, plot, scenes, main characters, etc., continues the same old
    Hollywood formula, coinciding with America’s current Asia-Pacific strategy, and
    thus it is self-evident what the Kaiju actually are [represent]. (No, it’s not evident. What do gigantic cloned monsters controlled
    by an alien race from another dimension who enter the Earth through a dimensional
    portal located at the bottom of the sea and fight giant robots from many
    countries, including China, actually represent?)

    Currently, with the increasing interaction,
    mix, and conflict between all kinds of ideology and culture in the world, with
    the profound and complex international battle of ideology and culture, some
    people in the West see the development and strengthening of our country as a
    challenge to their values and systems [of government], and have intensified
    ideological infiltration against our country, sparing no cost in conducting “invisible
    propaganda”. (I know, why can’t
    countries just be like China and bombard its people daily with very visible
    propaganda like normal people?!” So our many officers and men must remove
    the scales from their eyes [see clearly, be vigilant], build up an ideological
    “firewall”, and learn how to see American blockbusters from multiple
    perspectives. (In other words, expand
    your view by building walls.) What is especially important is to plan ahead
    and prepare for danger, to expand and intensify military battle-readiness,
    raise our ability to fight wars and win wars, firmly safeguarding our nation’s
    interests of sovereignty, safety, and development. (Unilateralism, which he fails to see is the complete opposite message
    of the film.)

  • Alex L

    When it comes to movies, esp. action ones, isn’t the country origin the main focus/hero of the film anyway?? I thought Hollywood makes a big effort these days not to offend China to get past the censors, right?

  • Jimney Cricket

    The Chinese army were going to be represented by General Song Zu Ying but the enemy had no ear for music

  • Kyle Mitchell

    It seems that the Chinese people are much more reasonable than Americans like myself when talking online. I expected name calling, nationalistic comments, and the like after reading the article. Maybe I spend too much time on the comments section of Yahoo News.

    • mr.wiener

      We get plenty of that too, don’t worry.

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