Chinese Chengguan Surrounded, Beaten Bloody By Angry Crowd

A mass incident in Cangnan, Zhejiang surrounding chengguan who were beaten bloody after beating a passerby for photographing them.

From NetEase:

Full Story of the 5 Chengguan Temporary Workers Involved in Beating Surrounded and Beaten By A Thousand People

From the around 8:30am in the morning until around 8pm at night on April 19th, the dispute between 5 Zhejiang province Wenzhou Cangnan county Lingxi town chengguan city management personnel and an individual who was taking photos to dissuade them from using violence in their law enforcement escalated into a mass incident involving the entire town.

According to local officials, at around 9am that morning, local chengguan had a dispute with a female street peddler while on patrol against street peddlers doing business by occupying and blocking the road. Immediately afterward, chengguan clashed with Huang Xiangba, a person who had been passing by and used his mobile phone to take photos of the dispute, beating the latter onto the ground until he was spitting blood. The 5 chengguan who beat him were then besieged by the surrounding crowd, with all 5 suffering injuries, and two of them going into shock with critical injuries.

As of yesterday night, local police authorities have already arrested over ten individuals involved in instigating the incident, with “most of them being idle bodies [troublemakers] in the town and surrounding areas.”

Within these 12 hours, Huang Xiangba, the person who passed by and took photos, has won the sympathy of the local populace. Then also in the name of sympathy, the 5 chengguan have become the victims.

“Can’t do it this way”

The chengguan wearing uniforms quietly left, while those not wearing uniforms stayed behind to continue beating Huang Xiangba

Around 8:30 on the 19th, as 39-year-old Huang Xiangba was on his way home after buying groceries, he saw several chengguan confiscating the gas stove and high-pressure pot of a street peddler. “One chengguan was getting physical with an old lady who was selling things.”

Eyewitness Zheng Ruiyuan claims that when the incident occurred, he saw an old grandma who was selling tea eggs and roasted yams pleading with four or five chengguan personnel. “You guys can’t do it this way [can’t behave like this],” Huang Xiangba said as he took photos. Two chengguan personnel who were in the process of moving things turned around and charged up to Huang Xiangba. “They both slapped/hit me immediately,” Huang Xiangba says.

After running away about a dozen meters, Huang Xiangba was caught by chengguan squad members and beaten.

Lingxi town mayor Wu Zhaopeng explains that the location where Huang Xiangba was beaten was around the intersection of Damen Road and Kangle Road, at the center of Lingxi town. Damen farmer’s market is located here and every morning there are many rural vegetable farmers who come here to sell their vegetables. Starting from 5am in the morning, the less than 5 meter wider street is filled with the honking of cars and peddlers hawking their goods.

The chengguan that Huang Xiangba encountered were those that were in the process of clearing away the street peddlers blocking traffic on Kangle Road in the direction towards Wanghe Road from Jiangwan Road. Before that, they had already cleared nearly 3/4ths of Damen Road, and were close to completing their morning task.

When Huang Xiangba was being beaten, Chen Xianrui, the owner of the pharmacy opposite the scene of the incident said he was in his store when he heard someone yell “chengguan are beating people”. He then went outside and saw three uniformed chengguan punching and kicking a man. The man at first used both hands to protect his head and after being beaten until he was squatting on the ground, the chengguan personnel began kicking him. “The chengguan were wearing hard leather shoes, blood was spurting out.”

Multiple witnesses claim that after the beating began, the chengguan wearing uniforms quietly left, while the few people not wearing uniforms remained to continue beating Huang Xiangba.

Guo Xian (pseudonym), the owner of the Damen Road communications equipment store, claims that several young people attempted to stop the beating: “How can you guys beat someone like this”, “but were immediately hit several times.”

Zheng Ruiyuan was one of the people who went up to plead [with the attackers to stop]. When Huang Xiangba was attacked, he was nearby taking photos, and he was punched and kicked when he went forward to plead with them. “My right foot/leg is swollen from being hit.”

The beating lasted nearly 10 minutes. According to photos provided by witnesses, Huang Xiangba was already spitting blood at this time, with footprints left on his body. “I had lost consciousness at that time,” Huang Xiangba told this Beijing News reporter.

Not long after Huang Xiangba fainted, Tang Shujiao, who has ran a store for over 10 years on Kangle Road, arrived on the scene. “That’s my uncle!” Her yell quickly brought together the over a hundred neighborhood people around the area who then surrounded the vehicle the chengguan involved in the beating were attempting to leave in.

The chengguan under the pressure of “fostering a civilized/model city”

There are normally a lot of street peddlers blocking the road in the Damen Market area. “A minority of street vendors and street peddlers refuse to listen to our exhortations [for them to clear the road], while the vast majority of people are understanding of and support our work.”

“The law enforcement personnel did not fight with the street peddler blocking the road [but instead the fight was with the passerby Huang Xiangba].” Yesterday, [town mayor] Wu Zhaopeng explained that the law enforcement personnel asked that Huang Xiangba stop his photo-taking, but Huang Xiangba continued to take photos, and thus the two sides clashed. In the clash, Huang Xiangba was injured, which led to the nearby crowd gathering.

Wu Zhaopeng says [the chengguan] were on their routine patrol taking corrective action against those illegally operating businesses and blocking the road, with the personnel involved including chengguan law enforcement personnel and temporary workers.

Cangnan county chengguan have clashed with the populace in the course of law enforcement many times before.

On 2012 September 3, during a patrol of the Cangnan county Longgang town [chengguan], a clash occurred with a street peddler blocking the road, resulting in the female peddler suffering broken fingers; On 2011 July 28, an incident of violence and smashing involving deaf and dumb people was triggered by Lingxi town chengguan forcibly confiscating the merchandise of a deaf and dumb peddler.

According to multiple street peddlers where the incident occurred, the law enforcement of Cangnan county’s chengguan in recent years is closely related to the county seeking the “provincial-level model county city” designation [an honorary government award for governance and management]. According to the official Cangnan county government website, Cangnan county began seeking this provincial-level model county city designation in 2008 and succeeded in 2011.

Tang Shujiao says the 2012 September 3 Longgang town law enforcement clash was caused by the chengguan increasing their patrols [for city regulation violators] in anticipation of on-site evaluations by the government office responsible for determining if the county would receive the “model county city” honor.

[The drive to] “Foster a civilized city” has also increased the pressure on the chengguan.

Yesterday, Cangnan county Lingxi town Chengguan Department Legal Section Chief He Gang confirmed to this Beijing News reporter that the county is indeed currently being evaluated for the “provincial-level model county city” designation. He says his department’s law enforcement squad was on a routine patrol on the day of the clash, and that the clash was probably caused by the masses being misled by inaccurate information. He says it is normally common to find street peddlers blocking the road at the Damen Market area, “a minority of street vendors and peddlers refuse to listen to our exhortations [for them to clear the road], while the vast majority of people are still understanding of and support our work.”

This reporter saw that the streets and alleys of Lingxi county are covered with banners encouraging the fostering of a “provincial-level model county city”. The public affairs website set up by Lingxi county says [fostering] “a model county city” is a core goal. On April 17th, just two days before the [beating] incident occurred, Director Gong Yinyi of the Zhejiang province government office for determining “model” status had led an evaluation team to Lingxi county to conduct an on-site evaluation.

The chengguan involving in the beating were “temporary workers”

“These 5 chengguan staff are not actually official chengguan personnel. They are people the chengguan temporarily hire to assist in removing the stones and merchandise that are blocking the public roads.”

In the 4 hours from 10am until around 2pm on the 19th, the number of people in the surrounding crowd grew from the hundreds into the thousands, with Cangnan county people using Weixin/WeChat to disseminate information to their friends about “chengguan beating people”.

60-year-old witness Wang Pu (pseudonym) says there were a total of two chengguan vehicles that were surrounded, with one vehicle being a cargo vehicle for holding confiscated/impounded merchandise and the other being a small van. At first, the two vehicles attempted to drive away, but the surrounding crowd immediately punctured the vehicles’ tires. The chengguan personnel in the cargo vehicle was so frightened that he fled into the small van, locked the vehicle doors, and continuously made phone calls.

The small van was drowned in wave after wave of calls to “Beat them! Beat them!” At around 11am, Huang Xiangba’s relative arrived at the scene of the incident and the scene got further out of control.

At 12 noon, police and the county leadership arrived at the scene. Police officers attempted to escort the 5 besieged chengguan out but were stopped by the crowd at the scene.

According to Li Qin (pseudonym) who was the first to call 110 [the emergency police number], the first time he saw the claim that “chengguan had beat people to death” was on Weixin/WeChat and it was at roughly the same time that the crowd also began yelling the same thing.

At around 2pm, after shouts of “chengguan had beat people to death”, some in the crowd began using objects such as bricks and wooden sticks to smash the vehicle windows and doors, causing injury to the several people inside the vehicle. Photos provided by one witness to this Beijing News reporter showed that inside a yellow van surrounded by the crowd, there were at least 3 people with differing levels of injuries and many bloodstains visible on their bodies.

“I know that hitting people is wrong, but do you know how arrogant/unbridled they were at the time?” said one local who asked to remain anonymous and who, at the time, had grabbed a broom from home. He explained that many locals in Cangnan were already normally quite disgusted with the chengguan, that these people [the chengguan] were basically all “waidiren [outsiders, non-locals]”. “A lot of people went forward to hit them a few times”, said witness Guo Xian.

According to He Gang: “As I understand it, these 5 chengguan staff are not actually official chengguan personnel. They are people the chengguan temporarily hire to assist in removing the stones and merchandise that are blocking the public road. This is because some of the peddlers will places stones/rocks on the street to prevent others from parking their cars there and thus affect their business. However, this is not allowed, so chengguan know ahead of time that there will be things that need to be removed and therefore call in outside workers to assist them. In the past, we’ve often called in these temporary workers to come help remove things.”

The 5 chengguan were dragged out of the vehicle and beaten by a sea of clubs and fists. Photos show that two chengguan were covered in bruises. After the incident, Cangnan county officials circulated information stating that on April 19th, people had posted rumors on the internet that “chengguan had beaten people to death”, causing the surrounding crowd to gather and the 5 chengguan to be surrounded and beaten. Later, the Ministry of Public Security organized people to persuade the crowd to disperse, order was basically restored, and the 5 injured chengguan personnel were taken to the hospital for treatment. After medical examination, two of the personnel had gone into shock from blood loss resulting from their injures, are currently in critical condition, and currently receiving emergency care; 3 personnel have soft-tissue injuries. As of 6:30pm that evening, the surrounding crowd had been persuaded to disperse, and order has been restored to the scene.

According to a Cangnan news website, local police have as of last night already apprehended over 10 people involved in causing trouble at the scene, “most of them being idle bodies [troublemakers] in the town and surrounding areas.”

According to that report, as of 3pm yesterday afternoon, one of the chengguan was still in shock due to blood loss from injuries and still undergoing emergency care. “I’m bewildered as well to have suddenly suffered such a beating,” said Zhao Eryuan, one of the “temporary workers” who suffered multiple soft tissue injuries.

Comments from NetEase:

网易广西南宁市网友 ip:121.31.*.*:

Those who have seen chengguan physically attack people with their own eyes, please click ding.

网易山东省聊城市网友 ip:182.39.*.*:

Strongly demand the release of the group of people who were arrested and that the chengguan personnel who first physically attacked people be held accountable [prosecuted].

网易广西南宁市网友 ip:121.31.*.*:

Just who was it that used what method to give chengguan temporary workers the power to enforce the law?

网易广东省东莞市网友 ip:113.79.*.*:

How did a group beating become a clash? Why were those who used violence unable to be stopped in the course of using violence?

网易重庆市网友 ip:113.206.*.*:

They often call people who have a sense of justice and conscience “society’s troublemakers”. This is their usual way of handling things!

网易北京市手机网友(111.206.*.*):

You’re working to make a city more civilized and that means the ordinary common people are not allowed to make a living for themselves anymore? The old lady [the original street peddler who was allegedly harassed] still has to peddle to sell tea eggs, and whose fault is this??? Just how was old-age social security for the elderly ordinary common people been handled [forcing such people to still have to work]???

网易委内瑞拉手机网友 ip:190.75.*.*: (responding to above)

Of all the comments I’ve seen, this netizen says it best! A ding for you…

oriusstar [网易北京市网友]:

That civil servant in Hubei province Maoju who was beaten to death by over 10 chengguan after passing by and taking photos of a scene of chengguan beating someone, to this day, the 10-something attackers have not been sentenced to death. The reason I remember this place name is because I’ve passed through Maoju before during a trip. The reason I remember this incident is because I too have had to enter a police station with chengguan for [witnessing and then] stopping the barbaric law enforcement of chengguan.

chisesnow [网易河南省郑州市手机网友]:

Several things must be said!
1. Why can’t fair and just law enforcement be photographed? Is it too shameful to be seen?
2. Why is it that Huang X, who was already beaten to the point of spitting blood and obviously had serious injuries, is described as not having any major physical injuries? Whereas the five chengguan temporary workers are described as suffering soft tissue damage? With such biased descriptions, what unspeakable purpose/goal is there?
3. Why do they say those who who physically assaulted [Huang] are temporary workers? The surrounding crowd saw the [initial] attackers were chengguan wearing official uniforms; it’s just that they fled more quickly and were not surrounded in time, letting the five temporary workers become the scapegoats. This is different from saying the [initial] attackers are not official chengguan.
4. Why is it always stressed that street peddlers are operating illegally? Even if the peddler was blocking the public road, is that enough reason to use violence in law enforcement? To the point of surrounding and beating passerbys?
5. Why is that chengguan who beat to death street peddlers are only sentenced to a few years [in jail] but street peddlers who were attacked first and then beat to death chengguan while fighting back are instead sentenced to death?
6. Why do you people insist on shamelessly evading and distorting the truth in the style of the Emperor’s New Clothes even when everyone already knows what actually happened? Because at least you believe it anyway?
7. Why is it that things like this are happening more and more? Just who made thugs and hooligans law enforcement??

Comments from Phoenix Online:

凤凰网内蒙古赤峰市网友:客户端用户

Chinese law enforcement unbelievably are afraid of being photographs. This is a phenomenon worth thinking about. Why [are they afraid]?

凤凰网上海市网友:手机用户

Chengguan have already become the enemy of the public!

凤凰网安徽省网友:羽扇圣手

The anger and grievances of the lower levels of society has already reached a high pressure state. Increasing the thickness of the steel [increasing containment] is not the answer. Providing people with livelihoods and rooting out corruption is what is necessary.

凤凰网浙江省绍兴市网友:客户端用户

Just wait, it was done by “temporary workers”.

凤凰网广西网友:客户端用户

The saying that “bandits/thugs used to be in the mountains but are now in the government” is true!

凤凰网福建省厦门市网友:客户端用户

My homeland, just what is wrong with you?

凤凰网广东省深圳市网友:客户端用户

China’s “legendary army” [referring to the chengguan] has once again done something!

凤凰网广东省深圳市网友:客户端用户

The government employing chengguan is just causing more trouble. They’d be better off not employing [chengguan]!

凤凰网陕西省西安市网友:客户端用户

Chengguan are the largest obstacle hindering the Chinese Dream from moving forward.

凤凰网福建省福州市网友:客户端用户

Chengguan, the Diaoyu Islands need you.

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  • Germandude

    Time until whuddyasack or Insomnicide downplaying this with police brutality in America in

    3……2……1……

    • Insomnicide

      Time until Germandude makes a retarded comment abou- oh wait, he’s already done it.

      • Germandude

        As usual, the copy never matches the original. Anyways, fair shot!

        • IsurvivedChina

          what did you expect, made in china~

          • Insomnicide

            An improvement isn’t the same as a copy.

          • IsurvivedChina

            no prizes for second then!

          • Rick in China

            Perspective.

            I’m sure Samsung tried that in the Samsung vs. Apple trial.

            Wait, they didn’t, because they’re not fucking retarded.

    • Kai

      You’re doing it wrong. Let them actually do what you suspect instead of preemptively and publicly predicting it. The latter ends up making you look petty.

      • Germandude

        Ah, I am sorry. The irony is that one of the mentioned even upvoted your comment, as in cheering for his own foolishness.

        • Insomnicide

          I’ve never defended the conduct of chengguan at all so the only fool here seems to be you. You’re making a fool out of yourself, mate.

          • IsurvivedChina

            sometimes its best to just keep your mouth shut, especially when a MOD has come to your defence!

          • wnsk

            Seriously, guys. Stop bullying and grow the fuck up.

          • Surfeit

            YOU GROW THE FUCK UP!

            What are we playing?

          • wnsk

            I don’t know…”Gang up on Insomniac like a lily-livered chengguan”?

          • Surfeit

            Am I in the gang?

          • wnsk

            If you wish. Have to warn you though, that after that game, we’re gonna play “Gang up on the chengguan bastards and strip them to their skinny asses.” Maybe you’ll like that game better. ;)

          • Surfeit

            There’s no maybe about it!

          • wnsk

            You wouldn’t be able to change sides though (in fact, you’re captain of the lily-livered chengguans.) But, smart guy like you, I’m sure you already knew that. :)

          • Surfeit

            Dude, I was already down to my socks.

        • Kai

          He’s not cheering for his foolishness, he’s cheering on my criticism of you being petty in preemptively predicting how he’ll respond to this news story.

          My point is that you should wait until he does something you think is foolish to declare him a fool. Jumping to declare him a fool before he has done something foolish just makes you look like you’re obssessed with him. It’s as if some Chinese hypernationalist jumps to predict CNN will be biased in its reporting about something in China before CNN has actually published a report.

          • Germandude

            I think I understood you very well. Let’s agree that we disagree on my approach.

      • whuddyasack

        Well, I don’t think I’ve ever sided with the chengguan, especially given the fact that they continually harass the innocent and the defenseless. I think the fact that I wasn’t even going to downplay chengguan brutality with American police brutality was the most asinine thing about that comment ;-)

        It would have been more accurate to talk about downplaying in terms of uncivilized, violent ‘Chinese mob mentality’ with White savagery and rioting.

        • Mighty曹

          I remember we both expressed our disdain for the Chengguans.

          • whuddyasack

            Oh yes, we did. I think we even made some chengguan jokes although my memory’s been fuzzy. How have you been bro? CSmack and shanghaiist weren’t quite the same without you, a lot less fun, a lot less stimulating and a lot less intelligent. I was left looking for my own amusement. And well, I think I got more than I bargained for. Things were really heated up for a while. BTW, Happy Easter! Did you have a good holiday?

          • Mighty曹

            Sup bro! Yeah I got Good Friday off so I was off of the net. Hope you had a good holiday too. Hahaha… sounds like you had fun! Actually I was getting a bit cS-fatigued. LOL

          • whuddyasack

            Not much ;-) OK, I’m a little guilty of being online too much when I should be taking a break. Well, I think I’m inspired to not be such a couch potato.

            Staying off the net was a great idea, I wished I had done the same. Only 1 week left, but sometimes it can be fun with the stories. I took a bit of time off, every now and then. I did spend Thursday at a friends ranch. She had some cows and horses. Feeling the fatigue myself actually. I think it’s about time to take out the roller blades, have a picnic or go hiking haha.

          • Mighty曹

            How are your grades? If they’re on the decline then you need to spend less time. lol

            Whenever I get a long weekend I go hiking. Good to be away from the city and be in touch with nature. I’m sure spending time on a ranch also provides that relaxation. Hey, try roller blading with a line in tow from a horse. haha!

          • whuddyasack

            Yeah, well I haven’t had problems with my grades but I think I’ve been spending a bit too much time online. It does actually, I actually enjoyed riding on horseback and watching my friend’s dad work those cattle with his dogs and horse. OMG what a crazy idea LOL. I don’t think I’m brave enough to landski with horses haha.

          • Mighty曹

            Actually I’ve cut down on my ‘online’ time. Now I’m rarely online when I’m at home.

            You’re lucky to be on a ranch and able to ride horses. Something most city folks don’t get to do. Hahaha… that’s the visual image (landski) that popped in my mind.

          • whuddyasack

            Good on you. I’m more or less doing the same. ;-)

            But actually I don’t live on a ranch haha. I live in the city (always been more of a city person, I like people) and my friend invited a couple of us to his “home” in the country. But you’re right, it’s awesome. XD on landski, you know what other image came to mind? That I hit a rock, became momentarily airborne and somehow managed to land on the horseback like in the movies haha.

            Anyways, I did take a break like you suggested and can’t thank you enough for it. Managed to do things I’ve always wanted to do. We did sled-blading with a friend’s 2 year old sister inspired by you and really dangerous. We felt like husky dogs. Man, is she adorable. Almost tempted to kidnap her hahaha.

          • Mighty曹

            Haha… I know you don’t live on a ranch, Bro. I meant you were lucky to be able to spend some time there. I’m also a metropolitanite (I just invented a word) who appreciates the great outdoor every now and then. b LOL @ “inspired by you”. Yeah, I love playing with kids too. They always help in reducing stress although at time they create it. hahaha..

          • whuddyasack

            Looks like I misinterpreted bro haha. Yes I’ll have to admit I was very lucky. I like that word, metropolitanite if only it because it rhymes with kryptonite. See, “inspired by you” is funny because it’s true, just like your latest innovation, metropolitanite ;-)

            What you said about kids is exactly the case my brother. When all you have to do is play with them or observe them, then you’re the most relaxed and happiest person in the world. However, once you become a teacher or parent, then oh my goodness!! I think children become the source of almost all the stress in our lives lol

          • Mighty曹

            lol. ‘latest innovation’. Kids are so cute when they ask or do something in innocent ways. I do hate kids at the age when they start to tell lies thinking they can get away with it. hahaha!

          • whuddyasack

            Kids make both the world and your head go round, don’t they? Man, speaking of innocent, you just reminded me of one of those aww… moments I used to have. My friend had to go get some groceries done so she left me with her little sister. Suddenly, little sister was tugging on my sleeve and looking sheepish. You know, with the type of sweet smile on their face and eyes glancing away from you. I couldn’t figure out what the problem was and thought she was hungry or needed to relieve herself haha. She did something she shouldn’t have done, i.e. played with my friend’s tablet, pushed a few buttons here and there and I think she wanted me to take the tablet. And probably the blame lol.

          • Mighty曹

            Cute!

          • whuddyasack

            Exactly my thoughts at the time haha. There’s something about children isn’t there? Even at their most “ebil babble”, they are just adorable.

        • Germandude

          I think the fact that I wasn’t even going to downplay chengguan brutality with American police brutality was the most asinine thing about that comment

          Thank you sir, for acting exactly as I assumed you would. And I got what I wanted.

      • Rick in China

        I don’t think he’s doing it wrong – this is a community with many threads, do you really think using historical evidence from other threads to make assumptions about what will happen on this thread, slightly in jest/mockery, is REALLY that out of line? Come on.

        • Surfeit

          Figurative tone, lost in a lunge.

        • Kai

          I didn’t say it was “out of line”, I said it makes him look “petty”. POS and whuddyasack used to engage in the same sort of name-dropping pettiness and I called them petty too.

          • Rick in China

            From a stature of authority – a mod vs. a member of the community – I’d say slagging a comment and calling it petty vs. saying something is out of line is a… for lack of a better words, a petty semantics dispute.

            Is it perhaps a way to guide the thread to a way of your liking – stomp out what you don’t like at the root, argue-til-death any opponents to that which you like? Seems a common pattern.

            I see absolutely no problem with calling out repetitive replies pre-emptively. Maybe we differ in that regard.

          • Kai

            Yes, pettiness of this sort is something we want to discourage in the comments section.

          • Germandude

            Ah, but if I call all white dudes in China rapists, then I am going in line with cS’s comment policy of fairness. Now that we got that straight, I know what to expect.

            Same goes for racist remarks from foreigners towards Chinese of course. Those should be moderated too.

            In cS’s comment policy section, it says that flooding, trolling and “disruptive” comments will be punished. All of which we had enough of in the last 7 days from the commenters I pointed out. Yet, I do look petty according to you. Tough luck.

          • Kai

            No, fairness is allowing Chinese to be racist towards foreigners if we allow foreigners to be racist towards Chinese, and vice versa.

            Fairness is criticizing POS name-dropping and trolling whuddyasack when I see him doing so if I criticize whuddyasack for doing the same thing to POS. It’s also criticizing you when you do the same thing I’ve criticized them for. Or me criticizing people and having to moderate comments when they do it to Linette or eattot no matter how much I may sometimes sympathize with their contempt for those two commenters.

            There’s nothing in our policy against commenters disagreeing with each other or even hating each other over their differences in position or personality. If someone says something you disagree with, by all means, argue with or even shame them in direct response.

            But there’s a difference between:

            Person A: I think this.
            Person B (replying directly to A): Well, I think you’re an idiot for thinking that.

            and this:

            Person B: Hey, everyone, Person A is an idiot!

            What you’re doing is more like the latter. Go ahead and disagree with someone to their face in response to something they’ve actually said. Don’t be a schoolchild and go around trying to publicly make fun of them hoping to ostracize them. We don’t want cS to be a place where people go around smearing specific individuals over past differences and grudges.

            I don’t believe you’d like it if others did the same thing to you.

            In cS’s comment policy section, it says that flooding, trolling and “disruptive” comments will be punished. All of which we had enough of in the last 7 days from the commenters I pointed out.

            Did you miss this part?

            If you notice a comment in violation of our comment policy, please flag the comment as inappropriate by moving your mouse over the top-right corner of the comment and then clicking on the “Flag as inappropriate” button.

            Have you done this? I haven’t personally investigated any flagged comments lately, which means another mod has because we all get the same notifications and all flagged comments go into the same moderation queue that must be reviewed. Either you have’t flagged those comments or another mod didn’t consider them to be in violation of our policy.

            But it’s not too late. Please feel free to cite the comments by Insomnicide and whuddyasack that you consider to be either flooding, trolling, or disruptive. Just be prepared to accept that our definition and criteria may not be the same as yours.

            Immediately, I can’t imagine flooding being applicable. Flooding usually refers to someone who posts multiple comments in rapid succession saying the same thing, like if someone posts 20 comments saying “Germandude is an idiot!” in one post or across mutliple posts in one go.

            Trolling requires being disingenuous. It requires an element of dishonesty. Trolling could be people saying intentionally inflammatory things not because they actually believe them and are expressing a genuine opinion but because they think it is fun to make others angry. It’s when their goal is more to annoy people than to express an opinion. Both whuddyasack and Insomnicde have said things I find objectionable and disagreeable but I haven’t gotten the sense that they’re being dishonest and intentionally trying to get a rise out of other people just because they think doing so is fun. As also sad as it may be, they seem to genuinely hold such opinions. Genuine opinions are not considered “trolling” just because others disagree with them.

            Disruptive is often frankly a mix of other offences in one but it can also be posting links to completely unrelated and irrelevant material which have the effect of derailing discussion. One example would be when chosen was banned for regularly posting irrelevant comments across posts that have nothing to do with the actual topics of those posts. Apparently he had a penchant for linking to porn.

            So, again, feel free to argue your case. You can always draw a mod’s attention to specific comments with the flagging feature or by @’ing them in a comment or by directly emailing us and articulating your complaint.

          • Germandude

            Out of courtesy to you I have to reply your questions:

            Did you miss this part? Have you done this?

            No, I didn’t.

            You made your point clear & I understood it. Currently, the tape is rewinding and soon somebody pushes the play button again. Same old song, same old boredom.

          • Rick in China

            Chinasmack Chungguan? Difference?

          • bujiebuke

            “I see absolutely no problem with calling out repetitive replies pre-emptively. Maybe we differ in that regard.”

            – I’m taking a screenshot of this and will save it for future use…

        • Germandude

          Thanks Rick. You show me that you actually understood my intention.
          And since none of the 2 mentioned brought up the topic yet just shows me that I did the right thing.

    • IsurvivedChina

      Wow, I still can’t believe the first one mentioned is not all over this.. It’s been a day since the story has been posted!

      • Germandude

        Don’t worry, he won’t come up with it on this topic exactly how I wished. Wait for tomorrow’s topic and listen to the same tape being played on “repeat”.

        • IsurvivedChina

          that doesn’t surprise me.

        • Germandudeisaretard

          You’re really into this website aren’t you Germandude?
          Seems like you put a lot of effort into trashing others on a regular basis.
          What do you do for a living that you have so much time to spend commenting on China Smack?
          I check in here and read through articles maybe 2-3 times a week and I almost always see you either insulting someone for their beliefs…or pushing your beliefs on the rest of us. .
          Stay classy, buddy.

          Moderator: Peter, we do not allow people to use other people’s names as in insult in there own, it is childish and it is trolling. If you do this again you WILL be banned.

        • Insomnicide

          The only thing on repeat is your self-righteous crusade against me.

          • Germandude

            Apologies. Crusade cancelled. Peace!

  • Chinese are fed up by these thug sidewalk police….time for the government to train them before they give them the power

    • Irvin

      Maybe that’s how they were trained. But to be honest we really don’t know what it takes to be a chengguan until we stepped into their shoes.

      They may seem uncivilized in their ways but who’s to say the peddlers are any better? Perhaps their way is the only way thus far that they discovered to be effective.

      The problem may be not how chengguan conduct themselves but the need for chengguans at all.

      • If McDonalds can train security guards…why can’t the Chinese government?

        • Dr Sun

          because they have no interest in training

        • Irvin

          And how would you know that? All mcd guard does is stand around, if they had to evict people on the street whole day they may lose their patience too.

          • McDonalds security guards are trained to throw skinny vegetarians out if they cause trouble…they are trained in hand to hand combat

      • Insomnicide

        Are chengguans even trained in anything in the first place?

        Judging from their behaviour and conduct, it seems they don’t even receive OHS training.

        • mr.wiener

          Occupational, health and safety?
          Some people skills would be nice, but oft times in china it’s who screams and threatens the loudest that comes out on top :(

    • Rick in China

      I am betting these “temporary chengguan” workers are hired EXACTLY as the fucking “cha diao fang zi” people are hired – the ones who are hired by property developers to follow and harass people who they want to sign some paperwork to take and destroy their apartments in exchange for some cash or an apartment elsewhere. My nanny is experiencing this now. They are 4 or so old people paid whatever, 100rmb a day, with their ONLY job to follow her, find where she is, harass her CONSTANTLY trying to force her to sign this paper, but she is afraid they are just cheating her out of her house and wont end up with shit. They fuckin stalked her to MY house and my wife told me came several times. I was FINALLY there this morning when they came bangin on the door at 9 am. Super aggressive old people, yelling for me to get nanny, who wasn’t there, I was furious. My wife and baby inside, and these old fucks come to harass my nanny! Yelled up a storm, they left. I put on shoes and got into the elevator with them, said I’m going to follow them now, go to their houses, saw guards outside, called as many as I could over, identifying their old ugly faces as people to NEVER let into our housing compound and do their fuckin gate-guard jobs, crowds gathered, and one granny gave another granny her purse and was like “I’m not afraid! I’ll hit him!” — hilarious. They’re the type who if you even touch them, or stop them from hitting you, will fall down and yell out in a fake cry, begging for compensation.

      If you think these fucks are ANY different than the temporary Chengguan who got destroyed in this incident, I would really love to hear their other source, because they sound *identical* to these ghetto fucking bitch whore grannies harassing nanny at my house.

  • Insomnicide

    If they can’t resolve a simple issue, they resort to childish antics like violence. That has become the chengguan way. It’s so disheartening.

    Same could be said of some users on CS, when confronted with issues they resort to childish Ad Hominem attacks and name calling…

    • Irvin

      Yes, most of the time people can’t stay neutral and discuss issues as they are. For me I just ignore such post and down vote them.

    • IsurvivedChina

      resorting to violence has become the Chinese way, it’s not just the Chengguan who act out with violence

      • Insomnicide

        Some times you just have to fight fire with fire.
        I very much admire the American ideals of giving the citizens the right to bear arms in case of government oppression.

        • IsurvivedChina

          this has nothing to do with America, this is happening in China.

          • Insomnicide

            I know, and guess what China’s now famous for?
            Oppressive authoritarian government and gun control.

          • IsurvivedChina

            they’ve been famous for that for hundreds of years…

          • Insomnicide

            Depending on which period we’re talking about.
            But yes, generally things haven’t been bright for Chinese politics.

          • IsurvivedChina

            give me one period in which the Chinese people have not been repressed by those in charge?

          • Insomnicide

            The Ming dynasty, the Tang dynasty, the Song dynasty and the Han dynasty. Oh and during the second Sino-Japanese war, the government became quite…lenient.

          • IsurvivedChina

            oh my history was not your best subject I see… I’ll leave it at that.

          • Insomnicide

            That better be sarcasm.

          • IsurvivedChina

            BINGO there is hope for you yet! you jolt!

        • Gordon Gogodancer

          I wouldn’t go as far as praising the American ideal of occasionally be enraged that you massacre people around you before you calm down and think about it. I would think if you have a gun (at all times) you should be a fuckin’ master of calm and self-control

      • mr.wiener

        Consider fun historical times like the cultural revolution this is perhaps not surprising

      • whuddyasack

        Well, last I heard, the ‘Knockout Game’ wasn’t exactly played in China.

        • IsurvivedChina

          creative whataboutism… no they use knives and gangs in China, lose some face, telephone some goons to help to you win the fight!

      • SzMach5

        “resorting to violence has become the Chinese way”
        If that was true, there would be turmoil everywhere in China and an uprising against the government. I don’t want to see the former but rather something like the latter.

        • IsurvivedChina

          but there is turmoil and it seems to be happening more often then not.

          • SzMach5

            Really? Can you state some examples? Last year when I went to China, I found it was pretty much as safe as the previous trips I went.

    • whuddyasack

      Same could be said of some users on CS, when confronted with issues they resort to childish Ad Hominem attacks and name calling…

      Don’t forget that they gather in packs and jump on you like mouth-foaming, rabid rats; fangs bared, eyes red, drool, spittle and all. Rats because that is all they amount to and throwing a bit of rat poison their way is all that is required to put them to rest.

  • Markus Peg

    Every Chengguan caught will be classes as a temporary worker… Maybe the whole Chengguan are just temporary workers… After all, how temporary is temporary?

    I think the comment by “chisesnow [网易河南省郑州市手机网友]: ” was good and worth reading.

    • Rick in China

      I believe Chengguan are now labelled “temporary” because, as Chengguan, they will likely have their lives cut short for being douche bags to peasants with knives. In this case they were like 1 week temporary. Makes sense to me.

  • wnsk

    “I’m bewildered as well to have suddenly suffered such a beating,” said Zhao Eryuan, one of the “temporary workers” who suffered multiple soft tissue injuries.

    Evidently, you have not have been beaten enough. 1000 people have failed to knock sense into your thick skull. You’ve now earned the right to boast about this!

  • Wodowsan

    There is something wrong with any society when people trying to make a living are made into criminals by the State. It is happening in America too. A SWAT team sent to arrest a barber for not being certified. A Dentist in a Spanish community in Chicago sent to prison after years of serving his community affordably without any problems, but because he didn’t have a Medical degree from an American approved university. A Rancher grazing his cattle on public lands having armed federal officers seize his cattle because he refused to pay fees for the use of lands his family has used since the late 19th century.

    In this world, not only in China, if you do not have money they make it illegal for you to do anything to support your family. Government only protects those who have, those who can afford to deal with regulations, taxes, certifications, diplomas, fees, fines, and insurance. The rich in any government heavy society can buy influence, hire lawyers, and lobbyist to use the State to make them
    richer, and the rest of us struggle.

    The Chinese people fighting the thugs that enforce these oppressive laws may actually be a head of the rest of us who just bury our heads in our Iphones caring more about YouTube pet videos, pop stars twerking, sports statistics, and missing planes.

    • IsurvivedChina

      love the whataboutisms – how creatively you made America to worse than China!

      • Wodowsan

        It was not a whataboutism. My statement is a warning for America.
        I too survived China, yet when returning to the States I saw that we are becoming more like the China then when I left.Since 9/11 we have speeding down the road to an all powerful and intrusive centralized government. A road China has already traveled and is why it has the problems it does.

        America is still better, because at least the internet is not censored, yet, to the point it is in China. America still has opposition parties. The people still have the right to bare arms. We still do not have direct government control of the media, or a government censorship board for printed media or movies. The U.S. still has a much greater extent of freedom of speech and access to information, than in they do in China. So it is still better here.

        Our problem is too many of our citizens choose not to take advantage of those rights we have. I fear we are giving those rights away all in the names of security and/or protecting the public. Read what I wrote again. It is warning, not a whataboutism.

        • Dick Leigh

          I noticed that too when I came back to Canada after “surviving China”; that this country isn’t so different from China either. I now see how widespread nepotism and corruption are in Canada, and how people just don’t seem to care as long as they can put in the least amount of work for the most pay.

          • Foreign Devil

            Under Harper Canada certainly has become less of a democracy and more of a Corporate owned and run country.

    • Rick in China

      Well – it’s not as simple as edging out a living. It’s about government having the authority and intention of regulation and taxation – and these type of ‘illegal businesses’ are neither regulated nor taxed..the result in these tiny cases is so small that it should really be ignored, but where is the line?

      I mean, the purpose of regulation is really public safety – regulating food, for example, to make sure that food which poisons everyone who consumes it, is typically ‘good regulation’. Taxing profits, which is idealistically redistributed to serve the public through government services, should be ‘good taxation’. Neither of these situations are as clear and great as they should be, but we have to at least understand why they exist and why they are enforced. That being said, strong-arming a grandma selling tea eggs on the street side when the community obviously doesn’t really care or protest about her tea eggs, is a fuckin disgusting extreme that governments should not support, but be disgusted by to the point that reform is suggested. Give granny a way to meet regulation and pay some minute tax in some way, and the legality needed to ‘squeek in’ to a meagre earnings that doesn’t cause these kind of insane results… too much to ask right?

      • Wodowsan

        Everything has to be in moderation.
        No water you die of thirst, too much water you drown.
        No government is anarchy. Too much government is tyranny.
        I just fear most nations have swung to too much government. No one trying to do a business should ever be considered “illegal” unless they are actually harming the consumer. For example selling poisoned eggs, or milk.
        Or they are polluting the environment where they are actually causing real harm to others.

        Most regulations and rules have become only a means to curtail competition and to protect the haves under the guise of protecting the public.
        Too often most laws and regulation are really enforced to protect government employees, businesses that are “too big to fail”, professional guilds, powerful unions or government created monopolies.

        • Rick in China

          I agree with some of what you’ve said in some ideologic sense. You’ll notice I mention “ideally” type situations – because of this..simple..reasoning.

          To remove regulation, from a legal perspective, opens the doors to exactly what you mention: “harming the consumer”. To increase regulation lets harming the consumer go nuts.

          To allow anyone to do business without repercussion and consider it legal, is essentially saying regulation has no place.

          How do you know grandma selling eggs or milk isn’t selling poisoned eggs or milk without regulating the sale of eggs or milk? How would you, for instance, feel comfortable allowing your child to buy some food or drink on the street in a completely unregulated environment? Would you really say “Yes, it’s OK, they will make sure what they sell is safe.” Would you really trust the life of your child with a stranger trying to “do business”?

          That’s the fine line. How does a government regulate without overstepping and over-regulating. How does allowing some people, but not others, avoid taxation…help the public in any way whatsoever? You can surely cite some examples to support over-regulation, but I dare you to provide a better solution than government regulation to ensure both social welfare and consumer safety. I DARE you. Bring something real to the table, and solve many of the world’s problems…until then, nothing in your reply had any substance.

          • Wodowsan

            I am talking about extremes in one direction, you are talking about extremes in the other. I think we both agree there has to be a proper “goldielocks” zone. not too much and too little. my argument is that is now too much, not too little.
            You need food safety. You need to protect the environment for people’s health. That in China does need more regulation. But when the government owns most of everything it is difficult for them to police themselves. It is a reason socialism is the way. The government should be an unbiased judge, not a part owner or complete owner of the companies they should be regulating for public safety. The laws in China are already many, they just only enforce them on their competition. In America it is becoming the same. the laws and regulations are becoming so high, only those with money can make money.
            If you really want a completely secure and safe society why not then require everyone to be licensed to cook for their own families? Cut their children’s hair? or a husband or a wife to give their spouse a massage?
            In America it is getting to the extreme where you go to jail if you are not certified in these professions. A doctor trained in a foreign nation cannot practice medicine in America because he didn’t go to American school.
            American lawyers, Insurance companies, realtors, teachers cannot easily practice their trades across state lines without certification in those states. Some states in America are now requiting parents to certified to teach their own children, where on a whole home school children academically usually perform much better than those that go to public schools with certified state approved teachers.
            Closed union shops, prevent those that are not sponsored by a friend or family member in the union from joining the union and working. Or what of those that don’t want to join a union. What of those willing to give up the protection of union for the right not to pay union dues. Why should they be prevented from working by the State?
            Yes we need moderate regulations to prevent food poisoning and to be sure medicine is safe. But it has clearly gone too far.
            If you really want to help people, make it easier for them to make a living, not more difficult.
            Whatever happened to teaching your children to cook for themselves? Teaching them not to eat a restaurant that is dirty or from a street cart that is selling food in the gutter? Do you feel you have no responsibility as a parent? The state should do your job for you? I should be taxed more to pay for government to do what you won’t do for your own children?

          • Rick in China

            I think the problem is not MORE or LESS regulation. In most cases, ‘enough’ regulation exists – the execution and implementation of the regulation is one of the biggest problems. I have no doubt China has the laws somewhere to govern food safety. I don’t believe they’re implemented fairly or well. This is the case for most countries.

            That all being said, the rest of your reply goes FAR down the rabbit hole, too far, leading to: “do your job as a parent”, HAHA.. come on man, that’s not only a cheap shot and misrepresenting my argument ENTIRELY, but is a totally invalid criticism – it’s ridiculous to say, let me sum you up here:

            Rants: people should be able to sell whatever they want to sell on public property to other members of the public without any governing body to limit their freedoms or add to the public’s tax burden because the people who buy that publicly sold food or product had bad parents, and their bad parenting isn’t my fault so why punish me with taxes! Let them die of gutter oil, not my problem. Raar.

            That’s where you ended. The start was reasonable. “We need reasonable regulation!” – I have no idea how you went from reasonable regulation to stop limiting my freedoms because of bad parenting, and let people sell what they want because the street cart food is gutter oil nonsense which SHOULD be legally sold without restriction.

            Wow. Done with this one, way too right wing confusion up on this thread for my taste…peace :D

          • Wodowsan

            Yes there is a limited need for government, but allowing the state to do everything is shirking your responsibilities as an adult, a parent, and a citizen.

            I was making the point that “protecting the children” is always the excuse of the left to take away people’s rights and give more power to the State, which in turn does take power, opportunity, and freedoms from the individual.
            Are you really worried a uncertified barber will cut your throat by mistake? I assume you would refuse to see a Chinese doctor in China, because they did not get their medical degree from an American university? You will not let your wife or girlfriend give you a massage because they didn’t spend two years training and $20,000 for masseur diploma? I assume you have never hitch hiked because the drivers didn’t have a cabby license? You won’t buy lemon-aid from two little girls because they haven’t applied for a business license and been approved by the health department?

            All these examples above are real cases in today’s in America, recently. You really want more government? You really think that more government doesn’t help the rich and powerful. the so called 1% more so the rest of us?

            At least with businessmen I can choose not to do business with them. With government there is no choice. They have laws and guns to back them up.

            People should be able to sell anything they want as long as it is not actually hurting the consumer. Freedom of information, a government as an unbiased judge is the best way to regulate and protect the consumer. Not having the government with invested interest and ownership of what they should be policing.

            Wow, for a person I assume is an open minded progressive you disregard a dialog very quickly when the person does not agree with you.

          • Rick in China

            Don’t get me wrong. I’m libertarian and do not favour heavy regulation in any regards. It is a worthy topic to discuss, though, and here is the problem with your last statement:

            “People should be able to sell anything they want as long as it is not actually hurting the consumer.”

            That is the WHOLE POINT. Without having an as objective as possible party to regulate and determine what hurts the consumer, *people die*.

            You have the choice to buy or not buy whatever you like, true. You can choose not to drink milk. If you do, you run the risk of unregulated milk containing melanine so the consumer can be deceived into thinking it’s healthier – eat it – die – and what then, take responsibility for your stupid choice to buy the falsely advertised milk which did not disclose the real harm of the contents? So the parents of the children who died due to poisoned milk are fuckin’ terrible parents? Are YOU a parent? I have a hard time believing you have any children, and if I’m right, I seriously suggest you stop throwing around the ‘irresponsible parent’ type rhetoric, it just makes you look like a brainwashed mouthpiece for the tea party. Do you believe that the government regulating those milk producers……to not mix poison into the milk and lie in marketing materials, is over regulation? You can’t have it both ways.

          • Wodowsan

            Where did you read that I said I do not want any regulations?

            Where did you read that I said I do not want a FDA?

            Although I would like to see the FDA make meds easier to reach patients that need those meds. A cancer or AIDs patient that is dying should not have to wait for FDA approval on a med that might save their lives. They are dying, what is the risk in them trying a new med that might save them?

            For example: I am personally on a trial heart med that has already been approved in Europe. But our FDA is requiring an additional four year study to allow the med to be used in the States. I have only a 50% chance that I am actually taking the med that could be beneficial to me. There is a 50% chance I am only on the placebo.
            Since the med has already been approved in Europe, is having to wait another four years in testing really protecting me? Or is it really protecting American drug companies and government regulators?

            If a doctor is trained and educated in a foreign country, should he or she not be allowed to treat me really protecting me or American doctors from competition?

            Sending a SWAT team to arrest a man for cutting hair for not having a certificate, is that really protecting the consumer, or is it really protecting the competition, the schools that sell barber certificates, create work for SWAT teams, and for lawyers and judges when this poor guy has to deal with the legal system?

            Closing down a little girls lemonade stand, is that really protecting the public or the local supermarket?

            More regulations mean more jobs for government workers, more benefits, and more pensions. meaning higher taxes and fees and higher debt that is now over 17 trillion in the States. Those additional regulations, certifications, licenses, taxes, make it more difficult for the have-nots to make a living. The haves can afford to deal with them.

            If you were really a Libertarian, (just because you want to smoke pot does not mean you are a Libertarian.) we would not be in disagreement. I suggest you read REASON magazine “Free minds and Free markets.” Learn what libertarians really stand for. http://reason.com/ It is not just legalizing pot.

            I suggest you also look deeper in the Tea Party beyond the Daily Show, Colbert Report, and the Huffington Post. There are religious rightist in the tea party, but there is also a very large Libertarian branch to it. The basic platform of the Tea Party is Limited government and fiscal responsibility. It was formed before Obama and has nothing to do with race as the left has been trying to discredit it.

            Being for “limited” government does not mean you are for “no” government.

            I am not a member of the Tea Party, but I do have friends in the Tea Party.

            For your information I am Libertarian. I most likely voted libertarian before you heard of the word. Although I actually consider myself a Libertarian-Republican. Although I have many years I have only voted Libertarian.
            Unlike hardline Libertarians, I do believe there should be public schools, a FDA, and in today’s shrinking dangerous world I am not an isolationist as many Libertarians are. I do agree with them that the defense industry is too powerful in America, as President Eisenhower had warned us in his farewell address.

            I do support the Libertarian wing within the Republican Party. The Democrats are way too socialist for my taste. They care more about government unions than the American people.

            I believe in free minds (government should not say who can and cannot get married, I oppose laws against victimless crimes, pot, gambling, prostitution, etc…)
            I believe in free markets (government should not own business, favor one business over another, or create monopolies with government licenses and regulations that prevent competition.)

            I believe there is a need for public schools, but they should not have a monopoly on education. Parents should be able to homeschool if they wish. and the poor should have a voucher system so they can choose the best schools for their children and create competition in education. I would not give vouchers to the rich. I would want them to still support public schools. If they want to spend more to send their kids to private schools or pay for tutors, that is their choice. The poor and middleclass should have a choice.

            You said “Without having an as objective as possible party to regulate and determine what hurts the consumer, *people die*.”

            I agree. My argument is how can government be objective if they own the business? I never said I do not want any regulations. I still think we also need to be responsible and use our brains. Don’t eat gutter food. Don’t eat in a dirty restaurant that has roaches crawling on the floor and tables. Don’t overly depend on the State to protect us. Teach your children these realities of the world we live in.

            I want government as an unbiased judge, not an owner of the farm, the supermarket, or any other business. I do not trust them to police themselves. Do you? That is the problem with socialism and communism, it is why China does not enforce many of the laws it already has. The Party owns the companies.

            Government has a role, but it is not to be an all powerful Big Brother with its tentacles into everything.

            For your information I am parent. I have three children. I educated my children to be adults, since I know I will not always be there for them. Being a parent is not keeping your children children. Being a parent means educating your children to be independent, honest, responsible adults and citizens; not wards of the State.

            I am happy to say of my two children that are now young adults they are all those things. I still have an eleven year old son that I hope will be like his older sisters.

            Since you are guessing my background, I am guessing you are the child of government workers. Public school teachers perhaps. Am I right?

          • Rick in China

            *sigh* I never made any statement that said you said you don’t want any regulation or do not want the FDA. I didn’t mention the FDA. I also don’t smoke pot – although I did occasionally….when I was 14.

            Back to the facts:
            “My argument is how can government be objective if they own the business?”

            Oh, the government owns competing tea-eggs retailers? Interesting. I didn’t realize the Socialist and Communist government (as you put it) owns all business in China, and as a result should not regulate because they *own* that which they are regulating. Wait…..

            Is this SERIOUSLY what you just said? Reading it again, it seems to be – and it reeks of ignorance and lack of information about the country you’re talking about. China is extremely capitalist. Government has stakes in many big companies and mostly industries which can be considered part of stabilizing the country (energy media etc etc), but fuckin’ tea eggs? Get outta here.

            I’m glad you agree with my point – not regulating = people DIE. I’ll say this again: I do not believe the answer in many cases is MORE or LESS regulation, but effective enforcement of regulations to ensure that bribes aren’t taken and simple common sense rules are being followed. As to why I’m libertarian:

            Thanks for the suggestions on reading material. I’m sure since you ‘voted’ libertarian before I was born you clearly have a full grasp on libertarianism and can school me on what it means to read Reason(tm) magazine. Thanks for the offer, but I’ll pass – I’m not American, and don’t give a shit about what American “libertarianism” means – nor what the politicians decide ‘libertarianism’ in America is – and while I like many ideas of people like Ron Paul I, like you, don’t subscribe to ideas like abolishing departments of everything because people should be fully responsible for everything in their lives – you and I may have the ability to do so, but MANY people do NOT, and part of living in a society means being able to take care of those who need….otherwise, what are we other than pure Darwinists – fuck everyone else, right?

            To me, Libertarianism means freedoms as long as they don’t interfere with others. Want to shoot heroine? Go nuts, just don’t leave a needle in the park my kid plays at. I believe in many of the foundations of laissez-faire economics, but I believe the “minimum” interference includes the sale of anything which may harm people’s lives should it not meet common-sense scientific standards of safety. Who defines those? I don’t care who, really, as long as it’s transparent and people have the ability to influence change when they don’t make sense. Even if it wasn’t gov’t ran, and there were private companies who offered “regulation”, and vendors could choose with whom they regulate great – can pick which you trust and which you don’t – but to believe you can INJECT lassaiz-faire into an economic system that the governments of most countries currently control willy nilly is a ludicrous and unrealistic idea. I hope you go nuts and buy whatever the fuck you want to feed whoever you want, but basically what you’re describing with the “take full personal responsibility” thing is take no responsibility – because you can sell whatever you want to whomever you want and if it affects them who cares right? They were the ones who didn’t think conscientiously. It doesn’t work when you mix an established system with an ideology – because neither ends up having any of the positive effects, and if you truly want to live in the system you describe – why don’t you move to a place where that system exists? Hm….where? Even Austria doesn’t adhere to Austrian economics, funny isn’t it? Ideologies don’t always seem to work out as wonderfully as they do to couch-theorycrafting-self-educated-economists who buy into charismatic propagandists who trick them into thinking they “really get it now” and the reality is all a corrupt mess.

          • Wodowsan

            I do think Libertarianism is Ideal. Which is why I am Libertarian lite.

            I do not think you understand China as well as you think you do. China is far from a Capitalist system. You can not own the land you live on in China, the apartment you buy is only for 70 years and can be taken from you anytime someone in the government wants to. The government owns the banks, the telephone companies, the internet, the television stations, the newspapers, the electric company, the gas stations, the steel plants, the airlines, all natural resources, etc….

            Look a little deeper and you see that those shopping center that want to stop the little old lady selling tea-eggs are owned by local party officials or their family members. They want people shopping in the stores they built, not from the poor old woman.

            I think you are confusing Libertine with libertarians. Libertine is do anything you want as long as it feels good.

            Libertarians is social and economic liberty. As long as you do not hurt others. (Making poisonous food is clearly hurting others, driving while drunk or high is hurting others.) We both agree we need government for those things, but governments, not just in America, have over stepped their bounds using the excuse to protest the public or the children to really protect those connected.

            “The reality is all a corrupt mess” That I agree with completely. Which is why I do not trust the state to police itself. I want it to regulate but for only those things that really need to be. If everything is corrupt, why give the State more power? Those in government are saints? Absolute power does not corrupt absolutely?
            The freer the society we can have, with power, and responsibility spread among all citizens the better.

            Governments is not the only way to help the needy. Friends, families, neighbors, churches, communities, are also a great way and an even better way because you are not creating jobs that depend on others being poor.

            Opportunity is the best way to help the poor, even Bono of U2 is now saying that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjKyEGDlXA

            By relying on the State to solve all problems we are rejecting our responsibilities as citizens and to helping our fellowman. I often hear the “government should do it.” I ask why not we do it? Why not help our fellow man directly.

            Since you have not said what nation you are from I will explain how it is now done in the States. The government taxes Paul $4 and gives $1 to poor Pete. It costs our government $3 to process the taking of money from Paul to give to Pete.

            Isn’t it better for both Paul and Pete, if Paul just gives $2 to Pete directly. That way it only costs Paul $2 dollars and Pete get $2 dollars instead of only $1.

            Does it not also give Paul the incentive to help Pete learn a trade, find him a job, or help him start his own business than to continue paying him $2 dollars?

            Granted the government workers would lose the $3 dollars, but what do they produce? Nothing. Just taking from one to give to another. Great job. great benefits, great pensions. but they add nothing to society. That is the real welfare system, government workers, not poor Pete who needs help.

            You never answered my questioned, are you connected to government workers?

          • Rick in China

            “are you connected to government workers?”

            No, 0%. I don’t think any of my extended family works for any governments, either.

          • KStyleBlue

            I don’t think many people outside of the United States know what “libertarian” is. In fact, most people in the US think Libertarian = the Tea Party.

            I’m not criticizing you.
            The thing I hate about American politics is that people vote on ideological grounds. People say we should have less tax or more tax. Less regulation or more regulation.
            But very few of these people actually know what the current tax rate is. They don’t know how much or how little regulation there is. They just have a examples of a few bad or good regulations, and they base their voting decisions off of that.

          • Wodowsan

            I agree with you, not enough people take the time to know the facts. I actually only brought up leaning Libertarian because Rick in China was claiming to be one.

            If you read all my comments I was noting the fact that most people care more about pet videos on Youtube, the private lives of pop stars, and the stats of athletes then the thing actually effect their lives and the lives of their children. It is why in America, those who can afford lobbyist (large corporations, unions, and professional guilds) get the attention of the politicians and laws that favor and protect them. I am assuming it is the same in more republics.

            Too often those in the media, the halls of academy, and in entertainment too often have the same knee jerk reaction to most problems “Government should do something!” “We need to invest (code for higher taxes) more money.” The truth is that spending more, and creating more laws more often does not solve the problems. Too often large government and higher taxes actually create more problems. For example: entrenched government workers that need problems to exist not for them to be solved.

            I have worked in a State legislature with minority leadership, and I have seen first hand how the Large corporations, professional guilds, and unions lobby to use the power of government to protect their interests and give them unfair advantages at the cost of the consumer, and general public.

            The middle class that are struggling paycheck to paycheck do not have the resources or the time to lobby their representatives, so their concerns are actually not addressed. Unfortunately what free time they do have they use on trivial distractions. What news they do get is from Comedy Central or SNL.

            The Chinese people at least are making an effort to find out the truth that their government makes an effort for them not to have access to. In our free societies, the information is there, but too many of us do not make the slightest effort. They relay on slogans and catch phrases to make their decisions. We have representative that pass laws they do not even take the time to read. Laws too often written by lobbyists.

          • KStyleBlue

            I didn’t read all of your comments, but I read a good few. I don’t disagree with you in theory, I was just trying to add on to your points.

            Most libertarians operate from the perspective that the current status quo = too much regulation / tax in all sectors. And so deciding which bill to support is easy [The one that decreases the size of government].

            Now, my views lie more on the moderate-liberal side of the political spectrum. Which makes it much more difficult to decide whether I should support this regulation or be against that regulation.

            And whenever I see a proposal to increase taxes on businesses (California, so we see those a lot). I try to find out what the current tax situation is and why it isn’t enough. And I often find vary little information. None in the official material. Even when I do find good information, I know that I am not qualified to judge the tax rate (I will still do my best to vote for what is right). The depressing part is that I see almost no discussion anywhere about why the current situation is bad. I just see liberals saying “more more more” and conservatives saying “less less less.”

          • Wodowsan

            The current situation is bad because the basic family income has dropped from $55,000 a year to only $50,000 a year. Medical, Internet, education, have skyrocket in prices way above the inflation rate. House hold incomes have dropped in the face of also higher rents, higher food prices, and higher fuel prices.
            You have the first American generation that is living at a lower standard of living than their parents did.
            America has more people in jail than China does.
            We spend more money on prisons then we do on universities.
            The government is in debt by over $17 trillion and growing, that is more than the gross national product. We are close to ending up like Detroit, Greece, Italy, and Spain.
            Increased laws, regulations, insurance requirements, much higher EPA standards, required licenses and certification make it nearly impossible for those with nothing to get ahead. It takes money to make money has never been truer in American then it is in today’s America.
            We spend more money per student than any other time, and much more then most other governments, yet our student’s education have been on a decline because there has been an effort to dumb down requirements. So test scores seem unchanged. I have taught inner-city high school. Where the Principle of the school had told us, “Just pass them. If too many fail and drop out they will close the school and we won’t have jobs.”
            I asked the other teachers,” if they tripled your salaries will the students learn any better than they are learning now?” the answer was always “no.”
            So the problem is not money the problem is something else.
            I would take the education of a high school graduate 50 years ago compared to a university graduate of today. Who are graduating with diplomas, high student loan debts, and can only at best get entry level jobs.

          • KStyleBlue

            Yea, America has a lot of problems. By current situation, I wasn’t talking about it in general.

            I meant in specifics of the law. For example:

            29 CFR 1926.200 (g) Traffic Signs.
            (1) Construction areas shall be posted with legible
            traffic signs at points of hazard.
            (2) All traffic control signs or devices used for
            protection of construction workers shall conform
            to Part VI of the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control
            Devices (MUTCD).

            Is the current situation (this regulation) too strict or too loose. Should we change it or is it fine as it is?

            Many conservatives will say ‘less less less’ without ever reading this. And liberals will say ‘more more more’ without ever reading it.

          • Wodowsan

            Laws should be reasonable and simple to understand. The problem is too many politicians are trained lawyers. Making things unclear makes it that you need a lawyer to do to many things nowadays.

            It is like having the bible before only in Latin. It meant you needed a Priest to tell you what the bible said.

            One main point of the Reformation was that the bible could be translated into the languages of the people, so they could read the word of God directly. Before the reformation, translating the bible into any other language than Latin was punished by death. (Although I think Greek was allowed since the first bibles were actually first written in Greek.)

            The argument of the church and the priesthood was it was for the public good. That uneducated and untrained laymen reading the bible would not interrupt it correctly.
            Or did not allowing the bible translated merely a means to give the Roman Catholic Church and the Priesthood a monopoly on saving souls?

            In some ways lawyers in America have made themselves into a modern day priesthood with the government backing their power and influence with so many laws and regulation that it purposely makes life more difficult for the common man or woman to manage without the paid services of a lawyer.

            In China, it is Party members that are the new priesthood.

          • KStyleBlue

            Yea, America has a lot of problems. By current situation, I wasn’t talking about it in general.

            I meant in specifics of the each case. For example:

            When California was asking me to increase taxes on the rich for education:

            I was told that there was a $million dollar deficit in school funding. And that we need this much % increase in taxes to close it.

            My question was: What is the current overall budget situation (breakdown of spending). Give me a budget breakdown on how schools are currently spending their money. How much money is currently being spent on education. What programs will be cut if the funding isn’t increased – maybe some programs need to be cut. And don’t give me bullshit that you have to close the science department when you are buying laptops for all of the students.

            Maybe we can just let the schools deal with having to educate students with less money per student. I don’t have the necessary information about the school’s budget to make this decision.

            The point is, the information on what the current law is should be immediately available when you are asked to judge it. With Context. A lot of the time, I don’t have this information.

          • Wodowsan

            I understand and agree with you. You should have that information, and it is there on the public records. But you have to know how to inquire to see them.

            It is something our media should be doing for the public but they are too busy covering slow car chases, and missing airplanes.

            It is why politicans will often shut down the fire department or bar people from open air parks, when they don’t get to raise your taxes more.

            Also, the so called “we will only tax rich is a scam. The rich just pass the costs onto the rest of us. They raise prices for the consumer, and/or cut salaries and benefits for their employees. Or they hide their money overseas, or worse send their factory overseas with the jobs.
            The rich will always manage. The rest of us will always end up holding the bag, look at Venezuela for example. The rich fled the country with the jobs, and money. Venezuela is now suffering with high unemployment, major shortages (toilet paper for one) and riots in the streets.

            You will find in education, most money is never “for the students” it is for benefits, pensions, and cushy over six figure administrative positions that more often then not micro manage too much making teaching more difficult for teachers.

            When I taught inner-city I had Laos and Cambodian students winning scholarships to universities that the white kids in the higher budget suburban school systems were not winning.

            Spending more does not equal better education.
            Lincoln taught himself law with books and the light of a fire place.

            Not that I advocating we should all learn that way. but wanting to learn is 50% of accomplishing the goal of learning. The other 50%?

            25% Is access to uncensored diverse sources of information (books, documentaries, newspapers, government documents, interviewing people, the internet, etc…)

            the other 25% is a teacher or a parent that inspires the student to love learning. To teach them to challenge what you learn with logic and reason. To encourage them to use their creativity to expand upon what they learn, adding to the body knowledge and understanding.

          • KStyleBlue

            BTW. Guest was me. I hit submit and my comment disappeared and my browser bugged. So I rewrote my comment and used a better example while I was at it.

            I agree with you on spending =/= better teachers in reality. But theoretically, I disagree. If we can drastically increase the wages of teachers, teaching will become seen as a good stable way to make a nice salary. And more people will aspire to become teachers, allowing the process to be more selective.

          • Wodowsan

            If you had the choice of going to a doctor that became a doctor because they can make a lot of money, or going to a doctor that isn’t interested in making a lot of money but loves medicine, loves helping people, Which doctor would you choose and why?

          • KStyleBlue

            On face value, I would obviously choose the loving doctor.

            But, In reality I would choose the system where the doctor is there for the money. People who are after money can be trusted, because you know what their goal is. And people who are after money work very hard for that goal.

            The doctor who is there for the money is probably a better doctor than the doctor who loves people. Cuz the doctor who loves money studied very hard to beat out all of the other prospective doctors. The doctor who loves money also knows to not cut-corners and take risks. Because these risks can get that doctor sacked/fired/sued.

            I’m one of them. I’m after the money. I choose my field based on money, not because I love it. The benefit of helping people is just a good plus that is secondary to money/job security/reputation.

            My loyalty is family first, work second. I am willing to work in the ditches to give my family a good life. People who do jobs they enjoy but don’t earn enough to support their families are selfish.

            —————–
            People who choose a career just because they like it are irresponsible.

          • Wodowsan

            I think you will find those that are really successful in their careers have a love for what they do. Bill Gates for example, Steven Spielberg, Edison, etc…

            Their motivation is much more than just material gain. I would choose to hire the person that has a passion for what they do, as opposed to just making money.

            I clearly do not want a doctor that only sees me a pay check. It is my problem with lawyers, most enter the field for the love of money, not for the love of justice, protecting people’s rights, and the law.

            I would argue the best teachers are those who love their subjects and love teaching their love of it.

          • KStyleBlue

            Can you not love your subjects just as you love money?

            You are a much braver person than I am. I do not have the confidence to do what I love. Rather, I do what can provide a stable job and is something I can succeed at.

            My love is in history. But I have poor analytic skills. I absolutely can not be a teacher, I simply don’t have the charisma or the ability to teach. Logic tells me that I most likely will not be able to find a career in history, let alone make enough money to support a family. And so I am forced to do something I don’t love.

            I am in engineering because it is something I have the ability to do. And because it provides a stable and well paying job.

            I’m sure that even if I don’t love the subject. I can grow to be content / happy with the work environment. I can grow to be happy with the people I work with and the work I do for the community.

            Is that wrong?

          • Wodowsan

            You say you love history, and you are engineer. Would you not find restoring historical buildings or cars, planes, etc…much more interesting? Don’t you think an engineer that actually loves being an engineer will be better at it?

            Using your love for history can make you a better designer. Looking back at things already done can inspire you to do something new. I happened to have taught a course in the History of Invention and Technology. There is a lot we can learn from the past.

            Look at the Prius Hybrid. It is basically World War I submarine technology. A gas engine on the surface propels the sub but also generates and charges the batteries the sub can use when submerged.

            Of course we all must do what we can to make a living. I was trained to be a history teacher, history is what I love. But as a White male in America is very difficult to get history teaching job, there are just too many white male history teachers.

            So I went to Taiwan and China to teach university there. I taught English, but I did it subject based so I found it interesting to teach. My students got two lessons for the price of one. They learned actual things (history, political science, cultural studies, cinema, media literacy, philosophy, and the sciences,) as they learned and improved their English. I would always have students tell me after the courses that they had never learned so much in single class before and found it very interesting. Many even told me I changed their life views for the better.
            I found their comments much more awarding than my salary.

            Now I am trying my hand at writing. Hoping I can reach more than just my students in a classroom.

            You should look at what you love, with the skills and talents you have and try to find a way you can make a living doing it. You will find your life much more fulfilling and you will be better at providing a better service or product to the public.

            I think it also makes a happier home life if you are not resenting going to a job, day after day, week after week, year after year just to support them. And often others do not appreciate the sacrifices we make for them.

          • KStyleBlue

            Actually, you are wrong about what engineering is. Restoring buildings and vehicles is more the work of a technician / mechanic / etc. And the designer side is the work of an architect. The invention thing is more on the phd + science side. Engineering is literally pretty much just the calculations and testing. The modern world is very specialized… Even engineering is specialized down to people who deal exclusively with timber houses. And even they have to work with other engineers who specialize specifically in soil, water, etc.

            But that’s besides the point.

            I congratulate you in finding a way to be both successful and being able to do something you love. I don’t have the courage to throw caution to the winds and risk everything. Especially since I can not imagine any fulfilling career path for myself in history.

            I have pride in my work. And I went through no small amount of studying and hard work to get there where I am. So no, I don’t think someone who loves engineering would make a better engineer than me. It would have to be someone who has a better brain, who is able to see solutions that I can’t. Or someone with more experience.

          • Wodowsan

            There are people that love numbers. My mother got her MBA in her 40’s became an accountant. she loved solving math problems. She was making over $95 an hour, and that was twenty years ago, she was extremely honest and loved what she did.

          • KStyleBlue

            I think we are completely off topic now.

            Have I sufficiently explained why I would go for the system where the doctor who is after money succeeds over the doctor who loves medicine?

            BTW: Have you heard the joke: The person who loves helping people becomes a nurse. The person who loved killing animals and cutting animals up becomes a surgeon.

            When many many people want to be doctors. And only a few people are allowed to be a doctor, this allows for the process to be very selective. The idea is that this would improve the overall quality of the work.

            In fact, this is the entire reason behind why society gives an “evil” monopoly to certain professions. We require them to go through rigorous training at accredited schools, go through years of apprenticeship in the field, and require them to take a professional license exam before they are allowed to practice. This is to maintain a certain level of quality in work. And this is also why we give certain professional organizations the power to set rules of ethics and self-govern. A certain amount of evil is required for the good of society.

    • Foreign Devil

      Youtube is full of people filming police officers. The officers hate it. but if the people know their rights the officers can’t do anything.

  • Kai

    Dayum, the mob really fucked those chengguan up…

    • Guang Xiang

      death by a thousand punches

    • mr.wiener

      When I saw this story yesterday it was 4 chengguan were killed after beating the guy filming them to death with a sledgehammer.

      http://revolution-news.com/china-violent-government-thugs-beaten-death-angry-crowds-killed-man-documenting-brutality/

      Glad they didn’t die, if only for the sake of those arrested in the crowd.

      • Mighty曹

        Wow, more photos. Thanks for that link.

      • Mighty曹

        I looked at a few other articles on this link and it appears to be some anti-government misinformation/propaganda outlet.

        • Surfeit

          Everything is a propaganda outlet. Except Wikipedia – That shit’s fo real.

          • Mighty曹

            That’s why I only believe what I read on Wiki.

          • Surfeit

            It’ll keep you Mighty it will!

          • Mighty曹

            I believe that as well.

      • don mario

        who knows if they died or not. you are never going to get a straight answer with chinese media. but we can assume from the photos (not the tamer ones posted on china smack who also don’t seem to show the whole story of news recently) that they could well of died. there is a ton of blood, lots of motionless guys and photos of their heads bloodied and bricks and stuff like that laying around.

  • YourSupremeCommander

    Damn, more animals than them Muslims.

    • Kai

      Don’t troll.

      • YourSupremeCommander

        Yes daddy.

  • Bill Dan Courtney

    Look to em like most of the people in the crowd would qualify to be chengguan themsleves. Love the Chinese method of stomping on an unconscious body.

    • mr.wiener

      I think you will find there are many examples of this in just about all societies.

      • Dr Sun

        I think he must be referring to the green lycra leggings .

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      yeah that’s pretty savage indeed, but that’s when you know how angry and/or frustrated people are

  • Probotector

    “As of yesterday night, local police authorities have already arrested over ten individuals ”

    I predict at least ten executions.

  • Probotector

    Why has one of them had his pants pulled down?

    • mr.wiener

      …because he really got f*cked up?

      • Probotector

        Why only him, and why choose that type of humiliation?

        • mr.wiener

          He had a nice bottom?
          I guess he was the one who suffered “soft tissue damage”

          • Surfeit

            Bad, bad, bad!

        • Kai

          There are more pictures and pretty much all of them are in various states of nudity. Their clothes were probably torn off by the mob as a way of shaming them, you know, in addition to stomping on them while they’re unconscious.

          • mr.wiener

            The chengguan see a peddler selling illegally: THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY AND THEY TOOK IT.
            The guy with the mobile phone passes by seeing them beat the peddler: HE SAW AN OPPORTUNITY AND HE TOOK IT.
            The Chengguan notice the happy snapper:
            THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY AND THEY TOOK IT.
            The crowd gathers and soon outnumber the Chengguan:
            THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY AND THEY TOOK IT.
            A covert enjoyer of alternate sexuality notices what an attractive figure one of the unconscious chengguan has: HE SAW AN OPPORTUNITY AND HE TOOK IT.

            China: The land of opportunity.

            Don’t get up. i’ll punch myself in the face

          • Insomnicide

            This feels wrong. On so many levels.

          • IsurvivedChina

            that’s what she said!

          • Guang Xiang

            i hope she never says that

          • whuddyasack

            Not nearly as wrong as this. Remember the time you said:

            Give me a thousand chengguan, and I’ll conquer Japan in a day.

            I was wrong for not placing a bet haha. Just kidding lol

          • Surfeit

            A+! For “haha. Just kidding lol”

          • whuddyasack

            LoL.

          • Surfeit

            MEGA LOLZ. ROLF.

          • whuddyasack

            You win, I don’t think I can laugh out loud as hard as you can.

            LOLZOROFLCOPTERSOHEMGEEHEHEHEHE

          • Surfeit

            ROFL! I knew it didn’t look right.

          • whuddyasack

            Haha, congratulations. I think you’ve entertained me more than I have you, even while you’re drunk. Or perhaps because of that very reason ;-)

          • Insomnicide

            I guess the chengguan are getting rusty, they’ve lost their martial prowess.

          • whuddyasack

            Hahaha true that. I blame smog, pollution and a diet of fatty burgers for that. ;-)

    • Insomnicide

      To make him look like an ass.

  • IsurvivedChina

    Wouldn’t they have to arrest the whole town?

  • Probotector

    “the dispute… escalated into a mass incident involving the entire town.”

    “over a hundred neighborhood people around the area who then surrounded the vehicle the chengguan involved in the beating were attempting to leave in.”

    “The number of people in the surrounding crowd grew from the hundreds into the thousands, with Cangnan county people using Weixin/WeChat to disseminate information to their friends about “chengguan beating people”.”

    “The 5 chengguan were dragged out of the vehicle and beaten by a sea of clubs and fists. ”

    “The crowd began using objects such as bricks and wooden sticks to smash the vehicle windows and doors, causing injury to the several people inside the vehicle.”

    “Police officers attempted to escort the 5 besieged chengguan out but were stopped by the crowd at the scene.”

    Does this incident then count as some sort of rebellion or popular movement?

    • mr.wiener

      These brush fire incidents seam to crop up all over china, usually involving people protesting land acquisitions being beaten up by hired goons. These incidents tend to be under reported except when it is on such a large scale that they cannot hide it, such as this incident.

    • Insomnicide

      Popular movement, considering they haven’t brought out the weapons yet.

      It’s not exactly a slight against the government itself, but rather the chengguan who have been thorns in the eyes of both the people and the elites of the government for a long time. I guess you could argue it’s mass vigilantism?

      • mr.wiener

        The chengguan beat up on govt elites like they do on street peddlers ?!
        That I’d pay to see.

        • Insomnicide

          Well they’re beating up the reputation of government elites…

          • mr.wiener

            I think given the loathing with which they are already held by the normal people in China , this is the least of their worries.

        • Kai

          I thought by “elite” he was referring to the more enlightened people in the government who are genuinely trying their best to improve China and thus consider misbehaving chengguan hurting the government’s image to be a thorn in their side.

          • mr.wiener

            i thought these people were extinct. Or an endangered species in any govt at the least.

          • Insomnicide

            Isn’t Xi Jinping one of them? Either way he has kept his word about tackling corruption.

            And his cabinet, of course.

          • Kai

            Heh, a totally valid cynical point of view.

            Time to head over to Upworthy or something…

      • IsurvivedChina

        All it would take is one phone call and the Chengguan would lose their power, the government likes having the thugs down below to do their dirty work!

  • Probotector

    Why didn’t they just tell this Huang Xiangba guy to move along? I know taking pictures is annoying and disrespectful, but that doesn’t deserve him getting a curb stomping from 4 or 5 guys wailing on him.

    • Insomnicide

      Exactly my thought. If they’re just finishing up daily routines, then they could have shuffled him away and avoided this whole incident altogether. But I guess they don’t hire the chengguan for their brains…

      • IsurvivedChina

        what did they hire them for?

        • Insomnicide

          Their fists.

          • Surfeit

            This is a well underrated comment.

    • Disrespectful? How is taking a photo disrespectful?

      • Kai

        It boils down to people not liking others scruitnizing them.

        • I guess we need to see how those African kids on a UNICEF brochure feel about things then…..

          • Kai

            Wha? Qualitative difference. The African kids are photographed to spread public awareness of their poor living conditions in order to get more international aid. Photographing law enforcement often communicates to the law enforcement that you want to catch them in the act of doing something wrong in order to get them in trouble. The African kid probably doesn’t feel threatened by the photographing whereas the law enforcement often does.

          • Exactly. To not wish to be photographed is a form of conceit.

          • Surfeit

            I get it.

          • David

            If your doing an official duty, if your just a civilian minding his own business the desire not to be photographed is understandable.

          • No it is not. It is completely non understandable. Society has this thing called history, documentation and discovery. To be able to consume that and desire to consume it – but not be part of it is irrational.

          • David

            Not at all irrational. Simply because YOU do not understand something does not make it generally non understandable (your bad phrasing not mine). It is called privacy. It is called none of your business what I do. It is called presumed innocent until proven to have done something wrong. I assume you are not from the United States of you might have heard of something in our constitution called the 4th Amendment. It is absurd to think because you like to be on any camera you see others feel the same. I will assume you are under the age of 30 and simply don’t know any better than to push your personal feeling onto others.

          • Assume away. You know what they say about assumptions. Please explain this privacy thing in the context of a public space? Please also explain how your fatty kim like mind set is compatible with the land of the free? Please also explain what history books and nat geo documentaries are about too?

            I am not talking about habeas corpus here. I am talking about the arrogance that some westerners think when they get all bent out of shape about a camera on them – when in a public space in a free country or otherwise. It is hypocritical, irrational and conceited.

          • David

            Again, that is the way you feel but most people do not feel that way. I have been to more than 120 countries (I’m old), sometimes for an extended period of time like for work, sometimes to simply visit and I can tell you from experience MOST people will shy away or cover their faces if they see you pointing a camera in their direction. In some countries it is just that, in others people will actively get angry at you even if them being in the picture is incidental. However, photographing a public servant doing his public duties is different. .

          • Surfeit

            “Photographing law enforcement often communicates to the law enforcement that you want to catch them in the act of doing something wrong in order to get them in trouble.”

            Yet when they photograph you, as they do on a daily basis, it’s to help prevent crime…

          • Dr Sun

            well said

          • Surfeit

            Right?! & I’m drunk!

          • Kai

            Yep, which is why a lot of people don’t like traffic cameras and fear the rise of the police/surveillance state.

          • Surfeit

            Lost me. What do you mean by ‘yep’?

          • Kai

            I interpreted you as saying it is ironic or hypocritical that law enforcement think its okay for them to photograph you to prevent crime but its suddenly not okay if you wantto photograph them to prevent them from doing something wrong (such as abuse their power). “Yep” means I agree.

          • Surfeit

            It’s an irony to express that photographing law enforcement is also to help prevent crime, rather than merely get them into trouble with the pretence of catching them in the act of doing something wrong.

            I think we agree.

          • Probotector

            Hell yeah

          • IsurvivedChina

            wtf dude, this is a bad comparison.

      • Probotector

        Don’t you mind people photographing you in order to defame you?

        • I have no issue with people photographing me. Not at all. To have so would be irrational western double standards. I do have an issue with people de faming me – but for that it has to not be true – truth is often a defence against libel (in this case as not spoken). The problem is the assertion that the act of taking a photo is “disrespectful”. It is not.

          • Probotector

            Of course you wouldn’t have a problem being photographed, you’re a photographer! However, some consider being photographed by random people an infringement on their privacy and personal space.

            How is it “an irrational western double standard”? Western people usually don’t go around randomly taking pictures of individuals they encounter for no reason. This is considered rude.

          • I am not a photographer.

            How is it rude? Yet it is not rude for us to look at photos of others? Be it people in a tsunami or ground zero or any other historic event? Just because you can’t understand the motivation of someone that can see a story and wants to record it for history does not make it rude.

            The west has a great tradition of documenting war, events and what not for history.

            There is no privacy in public – it is logically impossible. There is also no such thing as personal space – being in China you must realise that too? Besides how is taking a photo from 2 metres away different than talking on a phone two metres away vis-a-vis this “personal space” concept?

            Indeed by your logic we all should not be on phones in public either as that is “private” too!

            Rude – is farting on someone. Rude is not opening a door for someone, or standing up to offer your seat for another. Rude is putting down an entire culture and country due the actions of a few. Taking a photo is not rude. It is part of our civilisation and part of the fabric of history.

          • Barack Obama

            “Western people usually don’t go around randomly taking pictures of individuals they encounter for no reason. This is considered rude.”

            because Chinese people have nothing to do and do just that don’t they? But if you are talking about video taping authorities figures acting up there are tons of videos on youtube of just that.

    • Kai

      They seem to be saying they did ask him to stop but Huang refused. I know of instances in the States where cops were accused of roughing up people who were taking photos of them. Those taking the photos believe they’re either gathering evidence or ensuring that the cops behave while the cops see it as inherently confrontational. Here, Huang seems to have felt the chengguan were behaving badly and the chengguan either didn’t want it documented or didn’t like being photographed at all. So when Huang didn’t back down, they resorted to violence. There’s pretty much no way for them to avoid the “if you weren’t doing anything wrong, why would you feel threatened by someone taking photos of what you were doing?” argument.

      • Probotector

        Well it seems you were the one German Dude predicted would invoke American police brutality.

        In all seriousness, that seems out of order to rough them up. In the UK it’s perfectly legal to film and photograph the cops.

  • Insomnicide

    In China, temporary workers are a common thing in many fields.
    So the government has a very convenient excuse of labelling any law enforcers tarnishing their reputation as ‘temporary workers’ for them to dodge criticism and accusation. Of course, the people aren’t stupid enough to buy that any more.

    • noodles76

      Buy it or not, nothing will change. Sad.

  • Surfeit

    That’s what you get for showing off.

  • Tamil Tiger

    Sometimes you need a little violence to settle something. This incident change the way I see Chinese, I begin to admire the guts of Chinese. Well done Chinese people, keep it up.

    • YourSupremeCommander

      Gandhi, Dalai Lama, and MLK disagree.

      • Dr Sun

        not to mention Jesus

        • Kai

          Dunno, Jesus overturned tables and shit in the temple. He was all like, “JESUS SMASH!”

          Granted, that may have been pretty much the only time he ever used physical force.

          • Dr Sun

            he didnt use physical violence to any persons body though

          • Kai

            True, but he wouldn’t disagree with “sometimes you need a little violence to settle something”. :D

          • Dr Sun

            you will need to ask him that, my impression though is he never advocated violence as a solution.

      • Surfeit

        It does come from a Tamil/Tamil associated individual.

    • tomoe723

      Violence is inevitable, but it also depends on how you view violence. Nature itself can be very violent, but if handled properly or approached/avoided fittingly, you can minimize the “violence” happening. It’s the same with people. However, if you can settle things without resorting to violence (or minimize it at least), you’re a smarter person. – Sun Tzu, Art of War =D

      • Tamil Tiger

        I believe those chengguan will think twice if they want to do the same thing again. The only way to deal with a bastard is to be a bastard.

        • tomoe723

          They probably will hesitate next time, knowing the nature of the people. Or they could bring in more reinforcements…

  • Mighty曹

    One headline containing the word “Chengguan” that makes me smile.
    EDIT: It goes to show how much Chengguans are hated what someone wearing a pink shirt, pastel green tight pants and Nikes with aqua green gets so violent.

    • Kai

      LoL, I was like, is that Li Tianyi?!?

      • Mighty曹

        Hahaha… I wonder how he’s doing? (maybe he’s been secretly let out of jail?)

  • Probotector

    You know, I’ve never seen a chengguan in real life. I’m confused because sometimes bao an wear the same uniforms, you know, the grey shirt with the sort of row of crescents on their shoulder boards, a pair of blue slacks and a spiky nightstick. Where I live, illegal street peddling is rampant and out of control, especially at night, so perhaps the chengguan have no presence where I am.

    • David

      I live in New District in Wuxi and never see them either. We don’t have a big problem with the paddlers.

  • nqk123

    this is what happen when you keep pushing and pushing people around. hell will break loose when they explode

  • Gordon Gogodancer

    I don’t usually like mobs as 95% of the people are only guessing what actually happened based on their previous experience or simple prejudice, however in this case i’m glad to see people rebelling against injustice.
    I read another article about this incident yesterday and it mentioned that the photographer died and also some chengguan, is it true? (sorry, China Smack articles are as usual too difficult to read through for me so my answer might be written in there)

    • whuddyasack

      Yes, I read a similar article. I believe the photographer was trying to photograph a couple of chengguan beating on an older woman (street peddler). They then turned their attention on him and beat the photographer to death with hammers. There’s a parallel article in the shanghaiist here with a picture of a hammer to boot. Not sure how authentic it is.

      http://shanghaiist.com/2014/04/21/rioting-crowd-beats-5-chengguan-for-killing-civillian.php

      • Kai

        I’m guessing if Huang, the photographer, is responding to reporter interviews as seen in the article above, then he didn’t die. It seems clear now that a lot of misinformation about what happened was initially spread online, enraging the gathering crowd and exacerbating the incident.

        • whuddyasack

          I see. Thank you for the clarification. That clears up a lot of the confusion from this mess.

          • IsurvivedChina

            what kind of confusion? I thought it was pretty clear!

          • mr.wiener

            Nope, initially in another article it stated the photographer and 4 Chengguan all died.

          • IsurvivedChina

            they look pretty dead in the photos though! hard to believe they survived!

          • Probotector

            …and none of them wold have thought that it was their last day on Earth.

  • Jahar

    I think that it’s funny that the common folk seem to want these street peddlers blocking walkways, footbridges, and so on. I find it incredibly frustrating, myself.

    • Surfeit

      It’s more that two wrongs don’t make a right (i.e., Brutality is not the answer to annoyance).

  • Rick in China

    This statement:

    “local police authorities have already arrested over ten individuals involved in instigating the incident”

    Um. It sounds to me like the instigation *was* the Chengguan. They’re the ones who initiated the ‘clash’ as it was put. Take some photos of unnecessary aggression towards grandma, get beaten, people stop the beating and beat the beaters, and suddenly the people who beat the beaters are the instigators? Ludicrous.

    I feel bad for the 5 who were desperate or stupid enough to take jobs as ‘temporary chengguan’, until I realize that they gang beat a single dude who did nothing more than question their temporary authority. Then, fuck them, get hired as a temporary peasant authority figure does NOT mean you get to beat the shit out of anyone all of a sudden without reprecussion. I’m glad these people stood up for their community.

  • noodles76

    I keep hearing from some how the people should be able to try to earn a living. While I agree with that, I am fucking tired of all the people blocking the sidewalks where I live. Between cars parked on the sidewalks, people selling crap wherever they wish, and folks just putting whatever they want in front of buildings….it’s f’n impossible to walk anywhere near my house without having to go onto the street. I have a young daughter and there are too many streets I simply can’t take her on if she’s in her stroller. Walking on the street is not always an option. And it shouldn’t have to be. Sidewalks should be for…um…walking, not for selling socks and fish…or parking.

    I truly wish the chengguan would learn how to do their jobs properly. Going on large(ish) sweeps in certain areas once a year is not effective. Getting into physical altercations is not effective. Threatening people is not effective.

    • guerrinho

      AMEN!

    • Yes.

      While of course we all have to say violence is not the answer, deep down we have all wanted to go Jesus and start flipping tables and slashing tires.

    • Probotector

      I agree, I hate both the sidewalk blockage when I’m walking and the meandering pedestrians in the road when I’m driving. You’re right about the chengguan too. They have a job to do, but they just suck at it and let the authority go to their heads.

    • Rick in China

      We should get together source some parts and build tank-strollers. Ones that we can just roll over/through street side carts. No need to argue with the peddlers, let them peddle freely – they have the freedom to do so as they wish, however, we also have the freedom to move along the sidewalk unhindered. Bam, solution: tank strollers.

      • noodles76

        Hells yeah!!!

  • narsfweasels

    ” Wu Zhaopeng explained that the law enforcement personnel asked that Huang Xiangba stop his photo-taking”

    Yes, because that’s just a great reason to beat someone bloody…

  • wicky woo

    Start the fucking revolution already….

  • David

    Normally they complain and when that is ignored, and they can prove their case, they sue (there have been a lot of big payoffs made because of police abuse). This is how the VAST majority of complaints are handled because most people still have confidence that justice will be done. Once every few years they riot and loot (like when some corrupt police are found innocent) but if there was only a riot and looting every time there was police brutality, it would be a pretty safe world meaning there is police abuse a lot more often then there is a riot).

    • shuads

      I think most people join in riot/looting don’t take police brutality seriously.On UK police abuse few years ago,people just wanna use excuse to rob store and assault bystanders.

  • moldavidian

    Could this be a preview of things to come? Doesn’t it seem like ancient times when the so-called authorities beat the poor out of the way so that the more affluent (drivers) may pass through without being touched?

  • OMG, this news is even international. Some of my colleagues were nearby to visit a tea village to source tea leaves, however the road along was blocked and it was because of this accident.

    • Guang Xiang

      Just the Information Age doing it’s thing

  • Probotector

    Didn’t militias stand up to the Bureau of Land Management only recently in Arizona?

    • Rick in China

      The Bundy farm – yes..

      The bundys are idiots though. The gov’t, however, also lied about having to use that land for a project that no longer existed (ie. land use purchased from gov’t but not that land in question) – it’s just a mess.

    • David

      Well, private citizens supporting another private citizen.

  • slob

    Where the fuck was this mentality during the Kunming attack?

    Bitches can only mob a few unarmed guys, try that shit against anyone of proper defense cunts.

  • David

    Propaganda from the anti-gun lobby. The founding fathers spoke and wrote often about armed citizens resisting the tyranny of government. Madison and Jefferson both wrote about this issue. I am not going to get into a long debate about the 2nd amendment to the U.S. constitution (since this is China Smack) but the Supreme Court (the final arbritor of the meaning of the constitution) has found time and time again that citizens (with few specific exceptions) have the right to own and use firearms for whatever legal purposes they chose.

    • Rick in China

      Like killing kids who wear hoodies?

      Like pulling a gun up into the face of an 11 year old selling girl scout cookies door to door?

      Like shooting a drunk girl who was in a car accident in the face through a screen door?

      Guns for all, lets make the world safe, like the US of A!~

      • David

        What are you worried about? Your in China so you can’t have a gun. Not, don’t want to, can’t. period. Tens of millions of people own guns in the U.S. who have never done any of those things. People stab each other much more often then shoot each other, so start outlawing the knives. Better yet there are rapists in the world, so I guess by your logic we should cut off every man’s penis to make the world safer.

        • Rick in China

          The argument of having more guns and ability for ‘legal gun ownership’ making the world a safer place is long dead. Please don’t bring that dinosaur back to life. You want logic? How about straw manning an argument to *death*, we’re talking about guns not rape or knives, and correlating things to the end of an argument does not provide valid causation for your ‘pro-gun’ stance. Let me toss that straw man back at you, as an example: So many people in the military have hand grenades and I don’t see news about people exploding every day! Lets sell them at 7-11, obviously they kill less people than car accidents, you’d better ban driving before you ban grenades! ….. *sigh*

          Look, guns make it very easy to mistakenly or *quickly* kill someone, or many people, than something like a kitchen knife. That’s all there is to it. You can’t have some mentally unstable fucktard go to walmart, buy a dicing blade, go to a mall, and stab a group of people as easily as you can have the same fucktard go to walmart, buy a bunch of guns and ammo, and launch a fully loaded assault on people who are unable to defend themselves. You can defend against a knife far easier than a gun, and people -have a chance to stop an assailant- whereas with a gun, buddy can blow apart a crowd before anyone can duck behind a barrier. I don’t get ANY logic out of what you’ve just gone on about, but I also know arguing about guns with pro-gun people is typically useless.

  • loki

    In all honesty, I love the chengguan. I think they are awesome and should double their collective efforts.. Beat more people close more bread stands and of course hire many many more temp workers…

    Chengguan are exactly what Chinese people need. Chengguan aren’t the police or the military so when people get together and push back they win and with every bullshit move the chengguan pull it brings us (Chinese people and people who call china home) closer to Chinese people standing up for their rights to be left the fuck alone. Wouldn’t that just be grand… I am happy Chengguan keep pushing the people around and pissing them off.. Stirring up the hornets nest. Seriously, with all the reason Chinese people have to be mad . It just might be the chengguan that set it all off..

    • Irvin

      For me it’s youtube and facebook, I would go on a riot but I’ll just be a single raving mad man on the street since I’m the only one.

  • Rick in China

    Yeah – I avoid the gutter oil shit too for the most part. Personally I don’t have a HUGE problem with people slangin whatever they like street side, but I also understand that there needs to be some semblance of restriction or law around it. It’s easy to say LET THEM ALL STAY! But when they crowd around your home’s entrance so much you can’t come/go without getting stinky steamed shit on YOUR clothes, then what, still LET THEM ALL STAY? Or only let them stay when not personally inconvenienced? Or only let them stay when they sell gutter oil to people stupider than us? Bottom line is, there needs to be _some sort_ of regulation and there needs to be _some way_ for these people to sell their product/service. The problem in the story above is the power structure and instructions from the city management fucktards is “just take all their stands and shit away, beat them if they argue” – that’s not a solution and is obviously why there are clashes. If the government is serious about fixing these problems it needs to stop trying to roll over the peasants and, instead, work out a way to let them sell their shit with reasonable process or licensing and stop the heavy handed tactics they’re abusing now.

    • Foreign Devil

      You’d love living in Toronto then. . only sanctioned street food vendors are pre-cooked hot dog carts and the occasional chip wagon. Boring as can be. Everything else is deemed too hazardous to sell on the street.

  • Foreign Devil

    Again with the “temporary worker” excuse. Seems every level of government is staffed by unaccountable “temporary workers” whenever there is trouble. Most Chinese have camera phones and should video tape the security thugs all the time and post it online. Filming police in N. America is legal. and has very much changed how they behave and deal with people. . for the better. They are constantly on guard of looking bad in the public eye and less likely to beat people up.

  • moop

    Hi, I’m the Federalist Papers, have you read me?

  • Tamil Tiger
  • Yes!

    It’s a vicious cycle, chicken and egg story. The illegal vendors squatting on sidewalks are very difficult to manage, they don’t obey the laws. So, this being China, chengguan brutality is the way to deal with it. But this creates more hatred against public law and officials, who themselves already lack public trust and credibility due to misdeeds of their bosses and those big shots in Beijing.
    This boils down to incompetent local governance. Local simple folks need a way to make a living, they don’t have the means or connection to enrich themselves unlike the public officials sitting in the office. What government should do is provide alternative solutions to these market-produce vendors – perhaps, build a proper low-cost mall nearby with very basic amenities (such as water, electricity and toilets) with space for up to 500 stalls to rent at very very low price to these vendors, just sufficient to recover the cost of maintaining, administering and amortising the investment. Then you can move the whole bunch lock stock and barrel to this market-mall. In doing so, local population knows you have offered them an option, and then you can go on to enforce your local laws vigorously this time with support from the local population. Support from the locals in the locality is critical to successfully implementing your laws, without which the situation is like an over-boiling pot with no escape valve.

  • xuedi

    And i thought only panic purchases or free offers can bring a town together so fast and act collectively … They should find a name for this activity, maybe harmonizing the chengguan

  • North-eastern

    So when Chengguan beat ordinary people, they’re just “temporary workers” and it is all under the rug.. So now when ordinary people beat Chengguan, they’re still “temporary workers” so it should be under the rug as well. Move on.

  • Wodowsan

    The nations you chose are more so in states of anarchy. They are basically “no” government not the lean functional governments that I am advocating for that protects freedoms and property rights. My statement was I am libertarian lite, I did say I was an anarchist. I believe in a larger role for government than hard-core Libertarians do, but even hardcore Libertarians would agree that the nations you used as examples are why government is a necessary evil. No government at all is worse then limited government.

    As for Sweden and Canada they have recently both have been scaling back their large governments. Both nations do not want to end up like Greece, Italy, or Spain. They are also small populations, so taxes on society can spread much further, than in nations with much larger population. I do think communism does work, but only on the family scale, perhaps to close friends too.

    As for France. The wealthy and productive are fleeing the nation due to the unreal new taxes. In the long run that will harm France greatly look at Venezuela now, where I also would no go on vacation. France is heading that way. France already has a very high unemployment rate, long waits for medical services, and in the recent years their own major riots in the streets.

    New Zealand, Hong Kong (especially before the Chinese took over) would be more so the nations I would use as models of “less government, not no government as the nations you chose as examples.

    I could also go the extreme too: Would you rather live in North Korea, the former Soviet Union, Mao’s China, or Nazi Germany, or would you rather live in pre-China Hong Kong, New Zealand, or pre-9/11 United States?

  • Photography is not a crime.

  • Doge Wallace

    I see this as a positive thing. In America, people just film police brutality but don’t do anything about it. It’s nice to see people fight back.

  • Andy Mc Crab

    So so so beautiful

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