Chinese Couple Abducted, Return to Find Home Demolished

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-01

From NetEase (1 & 2):

Henan Couple [Abducted and] Dumped in Cemetery at night, Return Home to Find It Has Become a Pile of Rubble

August 8 around 12am in the early morning, next to the 107 Highway in Henan province Xinzheng city Longhu town, Zhong Hongwei’s home had over a dozen strangers break in, forcibly drag him and his wife out of their slumber and out into a small van without a license plate and taken away. Undressed, the couple was abducted by these people for around four hours, then dumped in a remote cemetery. By the time the couple had got back to their home, their home had become a pile of rubble, their possessions smashed. Facing the home they had worked so hard to build with their own blood and sweat money, Zhang Hongwei’s wife bitterly wept.

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-02

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-03

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-04

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-05

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-06

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-07

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-08

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-09

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-10

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-11

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-12

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-13

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-14

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-15

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-16

henan-chinese-couple-abducted-in-middle-of-night-return-to-demolished-home-17

Comments from NetEase (1 & 2):

牛仔唔北虎 [网易广东省网友]:

“Long years of oppression, years of demons dancing” [a poem verse describing the misery of old feudal China]

距离天亮还远吗 [网易山西省运城市网友]: (responding to above)

Black clouds hide the sun making it hard to find the path, a sharp sword to behead the demons and beasts.

LadysAnd乡亲们 [网易上海市网友]:

What a mysterious country.

不能这样搞 [网易安徽省芜湖市网友]:

A case that will remain unsolved for all eternity, this is difficult to investigate.

网易重庆市网友 ip:14.105.*.*

No respect for the law at all! Execute those who engage in barbaric forced demolitions!!! The government must stand forward and give the society’s disadvantaged and dispossessed justice!

405697174 [网易江西省景德镇市手机网友]:

They were still merciful. They didn’t bury them alive at the graveyard.

网易四川省内江市手机网友 ip:119.6.*.*

We are a country with rule of law, and the people are the country’s masters!

网易新疆手机网友 ip:49.117.*.*

I bet this is a nail house with too high of an asking price, so…

网易广东省手机网友 ip:122.13.*.*

Nail house, who didn’t cooperate with the demolition and relocation [redevelopment plans].

hnhchinahr [网易江苏省扬州市网友]:

This matter should be interpreted with the following points:
1. This matter severely does not correspond to the facts/truth;
2. The husband and wife couple sleep walk, and through investigations, the couple have suffered severe sleep walking for years (most often sleep walking in the cemetery);
3. While the relevant staff were on patrol at night safeguarding the public peace, they happened to find them and assist them;
4. As for the house, the truth is that the house the couple built was a mud brick house (the life expectancy of such a building has been determined to be 871 days by the relevant departments, and that night happened to the be the last day of the building’s life expectancy so it collapsed as normal);
5. The relevant departments is currently providing assistance to this couple, exemplifying the traditional virtue of everyone providing help when disaster strikes.

gdrhtrddew [网易湖北省网友]: (responding to above)

Then the couple must’ve been sleeping too deeply, perhaps because they tossed and turned too much at night.

清风泛舟 [网易广东省佛山市网友]:

The only explanation: temporary workers did it. Soon, they will be dismissed. Then, the matter will be left unresolved.

网易四川省成都市网友 ip:222.210.*.*

This is obviously a nail house [where the owners are] asking for a sky-high purchase price, exploiting the internet to get people’s sympathy. This kind of circumstance is too common where I am.

网易广东省深圳市网友 [wzyzyq]:

Recommendation: Report it to the police, that gold jewelry, pearl necklaces, and other property valued at 10 million USD was lost. That the household appliances and bedding were worth 5 million USD. If the police do not take the case and do not provide compensation, then be prepared to settle the matter privately. No matter who is in this area doing what, don’t care about them, just wait until it is done [built]. Then, with several hundred kilograms of explosives, bang, everything will be settled. Are those who are bare feet afraid of those with shoes [those with nothing to lose should not fear those with something to lose]?

网易上海市嘉定区手机网友 ip:116.225.*.* (responding to above)

Damn, I seriously agree/approve.

网易湖南省长沙市网友 ip:220.169.*.*

Forced demolitions are common occurrences. But I’ve never seen the relevant [government] departments deal with these matters!

我爱和平H0YK [网易山东省潍坊市手机网友]:

“Without a compass and set square, one cannot make squares and circles” [people should consciously obey rules and laws]. For those nail houses who do not know how things are done, this is the most effective way to solve a problem. Do you have the ability to find the real culprits? If you can’t, then don’t you now have to beg the government to help you? If you have the ability, solve it by yourself.

网易广东省深圳市福田区网友 ip:219.133.*.*

To suddenly discover that your house has been forcibly demolished! Haha! Those who are pitiful must have something about them that is detestable! All those around them have left, so why haven’t they moved?

网易新加坡手机网友 ip:203.117.*.*

We should support the building [development] of our country. Now you’ve done it. You didn’t manage to get the money you hoped for, and your home is also destroyed.

统一100 [榜上有名]:

Is it the demolition of an illegal structure? Land requisition? Or the act of temporary workers? Someone explain.

Help us maintain a vibrant and dynamic discussion section that is accessible and enjoyable to the majority of our readers. Please review our Comment Policy »
  • bbkkuning

    沙发?

  • lonetrey / Dan

    Stories like these just make me so angry. The men who do these sort of destruction, I wonder if they ever know what they’re really doing.

    If they do so willingly… I’d like some time alone with them, or perhaps an angry mob along with me.

    edit: some people raised the possibility of them being a “nail house” and manipulating internet attention in their favor. Fair is fair, they shouldn’t be abducted and then forcibly have their house demolished.

    • Germandude

      They will be laughing because it’s not their home that is destroyed. Until it’s their home that’s destroyed, that’s when they reflect.

      Has been this way in many countries. The poor, willingly supporting the strong and rich because they finally gain sth.

      Think of all the volunteers that are filling the system, opposing it privately, but being a part of it to keep it running because that’s how to gain the bucks to support the familiy.

      • 白色纯棉小裤裤

        We are laughing because we won’t build a house illegally and ask for sky-high compensation when 147 out of 148 families in that area had agreed upon the compensation and moved. We are laughing because our tax money won’t be used to pay some greedy nongmin. We are laughing because now the civil project which will benefit the public won’t be stopped by 2 stupid cunts.

        • IsurvivedChina

          I hope you’re being sarcastic but it’s hard to tell!

          • Kai

            No, he’s not being sarcastic (but also not “wumao” as Germandude too rashly accused). There is increasingly less public sympathy for holdouts and nail houses, because the image of government tyranny is complicated by what could be individual greed. People ask: if the compensation was good enough for everyone else, why isn’t it good enough for you?

            The use of anonymous thugs to evict and secretly demolish a nail house shouldn’t be ignored. Someone was taking an illegal shortcut to solve a problem. Illegal is illegal. There should be rightful censure of that. However, the decrease in sympathy for holdouts is a very real phenomenon and important to consider in this social issue. White panties put it in an inflammatory way, but what he’s saying is potentially very relevant.

            Another commenter, Harold Janson, pointed out in the last forced eviction/demolition article that sometimes the thugs aren’t even hired by the government or property developer but by the other former residents.

          • Wololoo

            The problem is that the contracts usually state that the compensation is payed when all houses are demolished. The demolishion takes place right after the contract signing though.

            It is a divide et impera tactic from the property developers.

          • Germandude

            Pretty much it. If you are not willing to step up for the rights of the neighbor, your neighbor won’t step up for you.

            Sheep that are focused only on themselves and that do not look left and right will happily sent others to the butcher.

            Really interesting to see history repeating itself and people pretending to ‘not having seen THAT coming’…

          • IsurvivedChina

            I guess that’s one way to rationalise it!

          • Kai

            Rationalize what? What exactly is objectionable about what I said?

          • IsurvivedChina

            Not you per say – The idea that this kind of action is justifiable in any manner or form is what’s wrong with China in this regard. What if they came into your house in the middle of the night and kidnapped you and your family and then drove you out of town and dumped you in the middle of no-wehere and then when you did manage to return home your house was destroyed and nothing was left? Would it be ok for people online to say you deserved it because you were too greedy in holding out for more money?

            The justification that some people on this thread in claiming the thugs were right is sickening and wrong. I think people need to walk a while in other people’s shoes. Maybe these people were holding out for more money, why not? That is their right! Maybe they wanted two bags instead of the one – good for them. In regards to the neighbours calling in the thugs to suit there own needs only amplifies the truly unsettling nature of China.

            Rather then unite behind the tyranny and stand up against the bully style nature of big business they took the first apple offered to them. Had they held their ground and stood together then maybe they would have got what they deserved.

          • Kai

            You’re describing people gloating over others’ misfortune which they consider in some way justified because of some resentment they have against those people. I don’t think that’s unique to China. Unfortunately, there are always going to be people like that. I don’t think gloating over others’ misfortunate is okay, but I do think it is important to reflect on why some people do that.

            Little White Panties is one of those people. I’d hesitate to say he thinks what the thugs did is “right” per say, but it is clear he has little if any sympathy. Is there a difference there? I’m not sure. He’s hardly the only person who has ever suggested the ends justify the means. Maybe he’s not walking in other people’s shoes, but are people walking in the shoes of the people he represents? That’s why I earlier said the perspective he introduced may be inflammatory, but it reflects a lot of people’s attitudes, and is thus quite socially relevant to this issue.

            If the thugs were hired by the neighbors, then what we have boils down to peer pressure, or the tyranny of the majority (aka democracy). You specify and emphasize how these negative phenomenon reflect “what’s wrong with China” and the “truly unsettling nature of China”. But peer pressure and tyranny of the majority isn’t specific to China either. It’s like union members intimidating those who won’t strike with them; it’s like homeowners associations; it’s like schoolyard bullies.

            Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying there aren’t manifestations of gloating and peer pressure prevalent in China that are far less prevalent elsewhere. I’m just pointing out that they do boil down to fundamentally human and phenomenon and rationalizations that are–when you think about it–quite universal. I think when we think about it this way, it clears up some of the false mystique about certain things that notoriously happen in China. It isn’t China that is truly unsettling, it’s the darker sides of people in general.

            Finally, I don’t think we can assume the other former homeworkers “took the first apple offered to them”. Since we don’t actually know who sent the thugs (could be the government, the developer, or the other former homeowners), we can’t assume “bully style nature of big business”. What if the other homeowners are perfectly satisfied with the amount they are to be given and don’t think they failed to get “what they deserved”? Why do they have to stand united with another homeowner whom they consider unreasonable?

            Resorting to violence and breaking the law is wrong, so we an assume that whoever is responsible for that is definitely wrong in that regard. But how reasonable are our assumptions about other things? To the extent that Little White Panties may be justifying illegal violence against holdouts, he goes too far. To the extent that he thinks it’s not unreasonable for others to feel no sympathy for what they consider to be the consequences of other people’s disagreeable choices, I think that’s pretty human. For example, how many of us have had our sympathies for what many Chinese live with modified by the thought that the Chinese have the government they deserve?

          • Dick Leigh

            Shiiiiit. I didn’t even consider the possibility that the thugs that attack the residents of nail houses could be related to residents that want compensation.

            I’m feeling kinda physically ill now, that people can even contemplate doing this sort of thing to each other.

          • Kai

            Peer pressure writ large.

        • Germandude

          We are laughing because our tax money won’t be used to pay some greedy nongmin.

          Right, why give the poor, when you can give more money to a governmental official that already got his share through “agreeing” to give that area free for construction.

          0/10, probably the poorest trolling attempt in the history of chinaSmack. Try again wumao.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            You are committing the fallacy of relative privation, corruption is a more serious issue but that does not make extorting money in a way that hurts the majority of the public a good thing.
            Its funny when Chinese people are laughing some retard laowai who don’t know anything come and tell us “How dare you laugh, you should be crying”

          • actionjksn

            You don’t have to be Chinese to figure out that this is wrong…Dumb fuck.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            I and other Chinese think this is amusing, what you gona do? Fuck yourself?

          • actionjksn

            No I’m not going to fuck myself. I’m going to stay here in the USA and if anybody tries to abduct me or my wife. I will grab my Norinco AK 47, empty a 30 round magazine on them and make them leak blood all over my house. Then I will call the police and tell them to come haul these pieces of shit away and out of my house.Because that’s how we deal with ass holes here in America like the ones that came and abducted this couple. How do do you like me now bitch?

        • mr.wiener

          I believe the milk of your human kindness just curdled… then again a lack of empathy seems to be a common occurence amongst “cunts” everywhere.
          Not wumao…but definitely flamebait.

        • David

          Do you really believe that or are you just trolling.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Believe what?

      • don mario

        this is the reaction of most chinese.. no need to take any action until its on your own doorstep. then whatever action you take will be squashed and silenced anyway.

    • Zsari Maxim

      Its all about the asking price. Expecting too much and you might endup with nothing. I bet they are thinking now how to obtain the initial offering price with no bargaining power left.

  • IsurvivedChina

    Nothing like a story of forced demolition to remind you how Classy China really is! Well done, Stay Classy China!

    • Alex L

      Capt. Picard, Resistance Is Futile..

    • texas tex

      And there are actually commentors defending it. Beyond vile.

      • IsurvivedChina

        Oh that shit boggles my mind, “If it was good for the other people why was it not good enough for them speech” as if they deserved to be carried away in the middle of the night and dumped in a cemetery…

  • Germandude

    We should support the building [development] of our country. Now you’ve done it. You didn’t manage to get the money you hoped for, and your home is also destroyed.

    I am sure he’ll continue talking that way when it’s his house that’s going to be demolished because it’s built on the wrong spot at the wrong time. What a cunt.

    • IsurvivedChina

      proof of major brainwashing at work in that comment!

    • Alex Lang

      I think what he means is that they were probably offered money, but stubbornly refused? Actually situations like these can be very annoying. When I visited my friend in China, she lived in a nice apartment, but in the street across, a row of shabby and deteriorating small buildings stood. She told me that for a very long time, that street was meant to be redeveloped. However, because one guy living at the very end refused, even by the time everyone else moved out, the row of empty buildings still remained like that. The government offered him a supple sum, but he was stubborn. She said that most people living in the area did not sympathize with him – the sight was an eyesore and who the hell wouldn’t move out of their house if they were compensated generously for it? I could totally see her point.

      • David

        We understand what it means. Somebody wanted to develop the area to make money. So they bribed officials to let them but one guy said no. I am sure he will end up the same as these people.

        • Ryo Saeba

          You people have no idea how this works. If you just think for a minute, you’d realized that they weren’t living in that site all by themselves. There were probably hundreds of other families. Where are they? Why weren’t they abducted and forced out? Because they accepted what the developers offered. These greedy people did not and got exactly what they deserved.

          I used to rent at a place where the people that owned it was given by the government in exchange for their old run down place. What did they get? 1st, they got the exact same space area as their old house. One that had 200 sq m can get 2 brand new units of 100 sq m, or 3 units of equal size (probably has to round up as well). 2nd, they received compensation money, upwards of 100k rbm per family.

          The units were decent and the elevators even have air conditioning. The only catch is that they can’t sell the place. I heard they have to wait like 10 years or something. But they can rent the place out. I paid 3200/mo in 2013. It should be about 4000+/mo this year.

          So yes, this one greedy family wanted more then what the developers offered, what hundreds of other families accepted. Good riddance.

          • David

            So glad you could explain to us how wonderfully generous the CCP is. I guess that is why everybody loves the forced demolitions so much. They are just waiting to rake in the dough. Nothing to see here just move on.

          • Ryo Saeba

            In fact, that is EXACTLY what they are waiting for.

            Hmm.. let me see.. live in a 50+ year old run down building with cracked walls, bad electrical wires and leaky roof, vs brand new elevator equipped buildings, 2 story parking garage, a guarded and gated community, PLUS compensation. Wow, that is so damn hard to choose.

            Again, hundreds of others accepted their offers. If it were unreasonable, there would of been many more needing “motivation” to GTFO.

          • David

            I will simply say I think your reasoning is a bit flawed and leave it at that.

          • Ryo Saeba

            Unfortunately for you, it is your thinking that is flawed. So you should be the one to “leave it at that.”

            By the way, what I said was NOT reasoning. It is simple facts and from personal experiences. I’ve been living in China for 7+ years and married to a Chinese girl. Two years ago, one of her uncle was so happy that the government is finally demolishing their 40+ year old building. It’s almost like winning the lotto to them. They used to live on the 5th floor with no elevator. I went there once and it was very run down. All the walls are cracked and peeling and window frames rusted.

            Now they live in a brand new building in a better part of town on the 5th floor with a gated and guarded community, elevators, and underground parking. I didn’t ask how much they were compensated but last I heard, they were able to buy a new car for their son.

            So please, if you have no idea, then just say you have no idea. Just don’t be an ass and think that you do and assume you know more then someone who’s been there and done that.

          • David

            lmao

  • SongYii

    And nobody saw this happen, or heard a house of bricks collapsing in the middle of the night?

    • firebert5

      Whose going to stop a gang of ruffians who are willing to go so far as to kidnap occupants in order to demolish the house?

      • Rick in China

        Obviously:

  • linette lee

    China is so embarrassing.

    • b duck

      u like to drink milktea?

    • Stefan

      Are you a hot girl? How old are you? post a selfie. :)

      • Very tactful…

      • UserID01

        May I buy you a Gatorade or something? Because your thirst is strong.

      • KamikaziPilot

        Better be careful this is the internet. She might very well be a dude.

      • David

        He told me in another post he is a gay boy. That was why he put a hello kitty sticker on his cell phone. Nothing wrong with being gay but if your expecting a girl, be careful.

      • JabroniZamboni

        Ahhh, the resident rapist. Good game son, good game.

        All the makings of a loner boner.

  • SongYii

    Does anyone know what type of recourse victims of forced demolitions have in China? Is it too bad, so sad, walk away? Any legal recourse?

    • Rick in China

      No legal recourse. They don’t own the land, they ‘lease’ the use of it often just the structure within a complex, if anything. A lot of these peasant areas the people don’t even have actual paperwork to identify the housing as theirs and the developers know this….. so if they don’t play ball, developer comes in a smashing and you’ve got nothing to document you actually owned anything there but words.

      Quite frankly, many of the people, these days, who get stuck in these situations — are asking for way more than they deserve. A majority of developments I know of offer the current home owners a new apartment in another complex they have built elsewhere, as well as cash on top for their *shitty hobble*, these 1500rmb/month bumpkins can instantly become relatively 土豪 but some of them just want more, more, more… They talk about the “house they built”, look at it. It’s a shoddy brick ramshackle hut with surely nothing valuable inside, but this type of story makes for a good sympathy piece.

      Also….. they knocked that down in 4 hours? With hidden heavy machinery they snuck in and snuck out, unseen by others? Wha?

      • WinterSmitten

        I just don’t understand why they do things this way.

        The local government should be able to say “Hey look, you don’t have paperwork. Leave or we’ll arrest you” and then when they pull this shit, they get arrested.

        Why does it come down to kidnapping, home invasions, death threats, etc…? With these people not being punished publicly?

        • Rick in China

          Too many people don’t have paperwork for their older homes.. it would be a riot if they started doing that shit.

        • Germandude

          @白色纯棉小裤裤 would tell you that the rest of China is amused seeing their countrymates being abused by their government.

        • Kai

          They do things this way because it’s a shortcut. It often saves money and time (which is also money) compared to the legal procedures. More importantly, too often they get away with it. For all its improvements, rule of law is still a work in progress in China (though granted some places are better than others).

  • firebert5

    “No respect for the law at all!”

    It’s hard to have respect for the law at lower levels when it is either not respected or misused at the higher levels. Applies universally by the way.

    • Chaz

      Law? Sorry mate…that’s a western imperialist concept. Chinese do things with harmony in mind…

      • Gordon Gogodancer

        lol

      • Dick Leigh

        Yeah, it’s all about 河蟹. Those damn dirty (delicious) censor-crabs!

    • don mario

      check out chinese ‘law’ the importance of law is like 4th place maybe behind other things such as ..THE PARTY. that basically means the law can be ignored.. that basically means.. THERE IS NO FUCKING RULE OF LAW. its quite simple.

  • Jessica

    I live in that exact area. What is the purpose for this forced demolition??? Can someone explain? Does anyone know?

    • YourSupremeCommander

      Really? You don’t know?! What else can they build on that land, a vegetable garden? LOL.

    • b duck

      normally gov will sell to property group, then build new apts building.
      of course, this way, gov and property both make money, and citizen have to use their life time saving to buy apt.

  • Cv

    Wow, this sucks. The feeling of loosing your house because others want the land to build.

  • Jahar

    I like how a few people were talking about notifying the proper government departments or authorities. As if they didn’t OK this to begin with.

    • narsfweasels

      I have a feeling that was said sarcastically. Could be wrong though!

  • b duck

    now one of the biggest conflictions in china is: gov and citizen fight for land.

  • Insomnicide

    Demolition thugs have increased the sophistication of their operation, it appears.
    If only the public could stand up to them like they stood up to the chengguan in Zhejiang.
    Sigh…

  • Tut

    The Chinese are there own worst enemy. Geez they can be utter c*nts to each other :(

    • SonofSpermcube

      Damn, you’re right! Time for a 2 minute hate against the Japanese!

  • JayJay

    It happens in the West too, however not as brutal as this. Much more civilised. In the UK there is the Compulsory Purchase Order and US has Eminent Domain. The idea is to compulsorily purchase the property in question for major development and regeneration. It is a bit of a raw deal for the home owners, but they will be compensated for sure and the laws won’t let developers just to come in and drag you out. And it takes years, even decades to complete all CPOs within a certain area, Heathrow Airport is a case in point. For the speed of development in China, I suppose it must happen in days, not years. Forced eviction is never good, but it can be done in a civilised way.

    • Rick in China

      Well, “major development and regeneration” — more like for public use or benefit. They can’t take land just to profit – Bush, even, signed something into executive order expressly stating that it can not be for economic development but rather must be highly limited, and only for works of public benefit or public use. They can’t say “I want to build a park here”, and take your home to build a park, it has to be for something like infrastructure where there isn’t a reasonable alternative.

      edit: see: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13406

      • JayJay

        I agree. Sorry if it wasn’t clear. I meant to say developments and regeneration for public benefits.

  • Apothis

    This is why we have guns in the US. To protect the citizens from the Government.

    • Rick in China

      Property developers != government. Nor are the thugs they hire to do this type of shit. They are more akin to modern day robber barons of the west, who first make offers – then put the squeeze on people who wont sell.

      If China had guns, this wouldn’t be a kidnapping/beating, it’d be a murdered couple with the same result as far as their home goes. If guns were legal, who would own them – the thugs/property developers, or people who are scrounging for their livelihoods? What do you think guns would have solved in this case or cases like it, aside from deaths that otherwise would not have happened?

      • Apothis

        Rick, Your bleeding heart is dripping all over the floor. Imagine the look on the thugs faces if all of a sudden they were looking down the barrel of a gun as they tried to abduct this couple. If the citizens of China were allowed to own guns the government (thugs) would think twice about entering any home without legal protection. Basically, If the citizens of China were allowed to own guns, the government would be far less intrusive and there would be far less crime.

        • Rick in China

          You don’t live in China, do you. I am guessing you also watch way too many movies where this type of scenario is played out – with the people in the home not ending up dead.

          Think about the scenario in the story for just ONE minute, please, before you respond. This is just LAUGHABLE: “Imagine the look on the thugs faces if all of a sudden they were looking down the barrel of a gun as they tried to abduct this couple.”

          Did you even read this? “Zhong Hongwei’s home had over a dozen strangers break in, forcibly drag him and his wife out of their slumber and out into a small van without a license plate and taken away.” Yeah, pulling out a 9mm would have left them in great shape against a dozen armed men breaking into their home at midnight. Guns for all! That’s the ticket! *haaaahahahahahahahhaahahha*

          • Apothis

            Well at least you got one part right in your little diatribe Rick, I don’t live in China. I couldn’t handle the lack of basic human rights, but apparently this shit happens everyday in China and you’re so used to it you can even laugh about it. Yeah, that’s some funny stuff…..

          • Symptomattic

            I don’t think he was laughing about the sad situation, but about what he sees as stupid. Namely thinking a gun would help this couple when 1. they probably couldn’t afford it and 2. they wouldn’t have been able to use it as they were sleeping.
            Or maybe you were trying to salvage some face.

          • Rick in China

            Exactly. To add, my point was more about the ridiculousness of guns being able to save the couple, when it is a definite that the aggressors would have them, and there were a dozen of them, and they may or may not — or, as responsible gun owners, would have them locked up — or, as you pointed out, the fact they weren’t expecting to have to use them..or a thousand reasons that they would end up dead instead of homeless.

          • Paulos

            I don’t think it’s a definite that the aggressors would be carrying firearms at all. Real estate developers outfitting armed hit squads with orders to murder innocent families in the middle of the night would incite a massive amount of public outrage. The word “shitstorm” comes to mind. There’s no way the developers could stay in bed with party officials at that point. It reminds me of this line from The Godfather:

            “It’s true I have a lot of friends in politics, but they wouldn’t be so friendly if they knew my business was drugs instead of gambling which they consider a harmless vice”.

            I’m not by any means suggesting that guns are the ultimate solution to any of China’s deep-seated social issues (like Alex said, these things are never that simple), but I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss them as a possible deterrent in this case.

          • Rick in China

            “but I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss them as a possible deterrent in this case.”

            I would. You’re fabricating a ridiculous scenario where peasants who live in ramshackle huts have guns, gun training, and are aware of the fact they may need to use them at midnight every night opposed to people who find ways that work to push these people off of their property, immensely larger amounts of money at their disposal, and obviously the ability to hire ‘squads’ of people who simply *don’t talk*, and get away with shit.

            My only reply is, GET REAL. Or get familiar with the realities of the situation. The reality is: allowing guns doesn’t mean allowing guns for peasants who need them *only*, but for all. If, for all, then who do you truly think would benefit from this situation, and who would often end up *dead*? My god, man, just think about it for a second.

          • Paulos

            Get real? You should get out and meet more peasants, Rick. I think you’ll find that rural people are better trained and more prepared to use firearms than any other demographic, from Pakistan to Alabama.

            If I’m not mistaken, Vasily Zaytsev was a peasant who likely grew up in what you would call a “ramshackle hut”.

          • Rick in China

            Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

            “You should get out and meet more peasants”

            Are you speaking from your vast personal experience living and learning with the Chinese peasantry in the countryside? Or talking out your ass? What the fuck does Pakistan and Alabama have to do with Chinese peasants? Do you label ALL people of the world from all cultures and countries as being the same? I bet you’re the type of tool who was like, “Yah! Lets bring democracy to Iraq! We are liberators! Freedom fighters! Lets kick some ass because we’re so strong!” from the comfort of his walmart chair. Tell me I’m wrong.

          • Paulos

            As far as my experience with the peasantry, I was raised in a rural community myself and have been lucky enough to live and travel through the countryside in many parts of the world, yes, including China. I’m not saying all people are the same, but trust me Rick, country folk from any culture have a lot more in common than not.

            And as far as Iraq (not that this is even relevant) but no, I was not pro-invasion, and no, I was not idly sitting by at the time.

            P.S. My chair is from Ikea. Have a nice day.

          • Rick in China

            Haha, so, you’ve lived in China’s countryside – curious, where, and for how long? I’m just trying to pin some quantification to your apparent claim of such thorough understanding of the qualifications of the peasantry in China here.

          • Paulos

            Rick, it doesn’t take a thorough understanding of the peasantry anywhere to know that country folk can be pretty adept in handling firearms, but I lived in rural Fujian a few years back and visit for a couple months each year to see my in-laws. The dialect is crazy, but it’s a nice place.

            Anyways, I’m not at all saying legalizing firearms in China is the way to go. “Adding fuel to the fire” would be a massive understatement. All I’m saying is that when taken in the abstract, it’s possible they could have provided a deterrent. Don’t take it as anything more than that.

          • Alex Dương

            Let’s go back in time for the U.S., when the rule of law was stacked against blacks and when poor blacks, not much better off than the Chinese peasants you’re referring to, faced against people not much different from those

            who find ways that work to push these people off of their property, immensely larger amounts of money at their disposal, and obviously the ability to hire ‘squads’ of people who simply *don’t talk*, and get away with shit.

            Guns helped.

          • Rick in China

            Yes, guns in black communities have been such a wonderful blessing. We all know that, already, Alex.

          • Alex Dương

            You changed the subject. Black communities have suffered immensely from gun violence arising due to the war on drugs, which I strongly oppose.

            But that isn’t what you were talking about, nor is it what I was referring to either. It remains that firearms helped protect blacks, who at the time were not much better off than the Chinese peasants you’re referring to, from people who behaved not much differently than the people you described as seemingly unstoppable.

          • SongYii

            Chinese water drip torture. Imagine those thugs looking down the barrel of a melting ice cube.

          • actionjksn

            I’ve seen what happens when one victim starts shooting at multiple attackers. The formerly brave attackers first shit down their leg, and then they start running like little bitches. Also in the US, the mainstream media are literally all anti gun. So they tend to avoid doing much reporting on a citizen successfully defending themselves with a gun. This is a fact.

            Local news will report on it once and that will be about it. But in reality it happens all the time. Often times they don’t even have to shoot their attacker, and other times they do.

            I saw a local news report where a 12 yo little girl defend herself and little brother against a home invader with her dads AR15, and she did shoot and another one with a 15yo boy. This is not as rare as you think.

        • 白色纯棉小裤裤
          • Alex Dương

            There is very little evidence that gun control reduces crime in the U.S. Even anecdotally, one look at Chicago and DC, which traditionally have had very strict gun control, ought to convince anyone that it isn’t as simple as “more gun control, less crime.”

          • Apothis

            No this is what happens when you have a small town sheriff who shouldn’t be a sheriff…kind of like the Chengdu?

        • Yes!

          If the citizens of China were allowed guns, massive revolts would have taken place everywhere.

          • Alex Dương

            I agree. It’s too simplistic to say whether that’s “good” or “bad”; I can only say that “massive revolts” are prescribed in Chinese culture as a method of addressing an ineffective government.

        • bujiebuke

          Your essentially parroting the NRA narrative of why people should be allowed to keep guns. The idea that the good guy always wins the gun battle is based on John Wayne movies.

          Where I work, in Amurica, a guy with a gun tried to rob an employee outside of a library in broad daylight. Instead of handing him his pocket change, the “victim” pulls out his own gun and they both end up in critical condition after trading shots. It was a fantastically stupid thing to do, they both could have hurt or killed innocent bystanders and that’s exactly the sort of thing that people like you recommend.

          Don’t tell me that people need training with guns, then it’ll be OK. Gun training is not some boot camp that you go once a year. It requires a life long commitment and diligence that 99% of gun owners don’t have.

          • Apothis

            I wouldn’t even think of telling you anything….apparently you already know all there is to know.

          • Alex Dương

            As is, people with carry permits are less likely to commit crime than people without carry permits. I am not claiming that carry permits reduce crime in a causal sense, but this should not be the case if gun owners are as negligent as you are making them out to be.

          • bujiebuke

            Cary permits and whether they reduce crime is a different issue. I was specifically addressing Apothis’s suggestion that the story would have had a more positive outcome if the kidnappers knew ahead of time that the owners might go yosemite sam on them.

            If China did allow the sale of fire arms, then you can be sure that the kidnappers would be carrying guns and a bullet proof vests, not the victims.

          • Alex Dương

            You said,

            Don’t tell me that people need training with guns, then it’ll be OK. Gun training is not some boot camp that you go once a year. It requires a life long commitment and diligence that 99% of gun owners don’t have.

            You’re insinuating that gun owners aren’t responsible. But at least in crime rates, we don’t see that.

          • bujiebuke

            I don’t understand the connection your drawing up between crime rates and irresponsible gun owners. What I’m talking about are idiots who either accidentally shoot themselves or indirectly cause the death of a family member because they lack proper firearm training despite their claim in proficiency.

            Each day in the U.S., one child on average die from gun death (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html). The number that are “accidents” are high (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?hp&_r=5&).

            Clearly, there are too many gun owners who violate even the cursory rules of safety; Don’t leave you gun loaded and unattended.

          • Alex Dương

            What I’m talking about are idiots who either accidentally shoot
            themselves or indirectly cause the death of a family member because they
            lack proper firearm training despite their claim in proficiency.

            Accident or not, you are still talking about crimes. That’s not borne out in the data.

          • bujiebuke

            “Accident or not, you are still talking about crimes. That’s not borne out in the data.”

            I don’t know what country you live in but in the U.S., there’s is a difference between accidental killing and involuntary manslaughter. It depends on the state whether a law’s been broken if a child dies by an unsecured handgun.

          • Alex Dương

            I live in the U.S. I see you were talking about a child getting access to a loaded firearm. I thought you were talking about an adult shooting a child by accident, which (as a nonlawyer), I would think is involuntary manslaughter.

            I read your two articles, and I think you’re misrepresenting them. The NYT identified 259 deaths of children from firearm accidents in eight states in eight years. That’s 259 too many; no question about it. But you’re suggesting that there should have been 365*8=2920 in those eight years, and it’s not clear to me that 2300+ accidental deaths occurred in the other 42 states in those eight years.

            Edit

            Also, if you take a look at the interactive graphic on the Slate article, it’s obvious that Chicago is a big source of deaths. Yet, Chicago is notorious for its extremely “strong” gun control laws. Care to guess as to why kids are dying anyway?

          • bujiebuke

            “I read your two articles, and I think you’re misrepresenting them. The NYT identified 259 deaths of children from firearm accidents in eight states in eight years. That’s 259 too many; no question about it. But you’re suggesting that there should have been 365*8=2920 in those eight years, and it’s not clear to me that 2300+ accidental deaths occurred in the other 42 states in those eight years.”

            No… I’m not misrepresenting the two articles. I wrote that on average 1 child dies in the U.S. from gun death and then pointed to the slate article. If you inspect their daily count you will see in fact that it’s probably more than that. And then I said that the number that’s considered accidents are high and linked the NYtimes article. Therefore, I didn’t intend to suggest that the statistics from the two articles are commutative.

            I’m not going to spend the time to talk about your math. I’ll let you figure that one out.

          • Alex Dương

            You intended for them to complement each other; you aren’t using them in isolation / separately from one another. I’m not downplaying or dismissing these tragedies, but I think you’re exaggerating the irresponsibility of the average gun owner.

          • Germandude

            As is, people with carry permits are less likely to commit crime than people without carry permits.

            That’s a no-brainer right there, isn’t it?

            Problem is: On top of the unregistered guns in the US come a couple of million registered guns that are also partly used for crimes, murder or fatal self-defence.

            Sth that is far less happening in Europe with stricter gun laws.
            Add to that the difference in social system, education and culture, and you can quickly see why people consider Europe safe compared to the US. Which other country doesn’t actually?

          • Alex Dương

            That’s a no-brainer right there, isn’t it?

            Yes, which is why I said it wasn’t causal. People who apply for carry permits tend not to be criminals in the first place, and a successful application means you’re recorded in a state database. Good luck committing a murder and “getting away with it.”

            Problem is: On top of the unregistered guns in the US come a couple of million registered guns that are also partly used for crimes, murder or fatal self-defence.

            No, I don’t think that’s a problem. Most of the gun deaths in the U.S. are due to the war on drugs. People who kill each other on the street aren’t buying legal, “registered guns.”

            Again, if it were as simple as “more gun control, less crime,” then Chicago and DC should have very few gun deaths. That simply isn’t the case. Gun control advocates like to talk about how the guns used in those locations come from Indiana and Virginia, respectively. Well, gee, why don’t those states have gun violence as bad as Chicago and DC?

          • actionjksn

            Doesn’t Switzerland have a high rate of private gin ownership? How does their crime rate compare to the country’s with outright bans, like the UK?

          • Germandude

            Look at swiss gun laws. Also, comparing Switzerland to any other country is pretty useless. Look how monocultural Switzerland is and look how isolated it is eventhough it’s in the heart of Europe. Additionally, just have a look at income levels.

            It’s simply tiring and useless to discuss gun laws with people in support… With that I don’t mean you btw, but above commenter…

          • Alex Dương

            With that I don’t mean you btw, but above commenter…

            :/

            Most gun rights supporters feel the same about you, BTW :)

            You may not have realized it, but your comment illustrates my point that the issue is not so simple. National cohesion, geography, and wealth may all affect rates of gun violence.

          • Germandude

            I do realize that national cohesion, geography and wealth do affect crime rates.

            What the fuck? That’s what I always state, look at Swiss example I have given.

            I am arguing that guns low down the inhibition threshold of harming others. It’s quick’n’easy to pull the trigger, but it’s dirty work to stab someone.

            And the major problem we face (both you and me, supporters of gun ownership as well as those against it) is that the crime and violence data are measured differently in each and every country.

            Just think of the US’ and the UK’s definitions of violent crime:

            “The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.” By contrast, “the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person,’ including simple assaults, all robberies, and all ‘sexual offenses,’ as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and ‘forcible rapes.’ ”

            And if the banning of guns is just impeding 1 school shooting, then I am all in for that.

            PS: Please excuse my comment “…above commenter”. I now realize it sounded like a personal attack/cheap shot which was not my intention.

          • Alex Dương

            Sorry, I forgot that you had included “social system, education, and culture” originally:

            Sth that is far less happening in Europe with stricter gun laws.

            Add to that the difference in social system, education and culture, and you can quickly see why people consider Europe safe compared to the US.

            Which other country doesn’t actually?

            I just feel that “stricter gun laws” -> less crime is too simplistic. At the very least, I think “social system, education, and culture” play a much bigger role in reducing gun violence. And don’t worry about the “above commenter” thing; I fully understand how contentious this issue is.

          • actionjksn

            Actually I am a very pro 2nd amendment person, I’ve had a Norinco Kalashnikov style rifle since 1999 and I have a Glock 23c. They never made me kill anyone.

            But anyway you’re kind of making the point that it’s not the guns that kill people, it’s the people who are motivated to do innocent people harm. It depends on if the country is full of violent assholes or if it has mostly peaceful law abiding citizens who are not stupid,like the fine people of Switzerland. If the Swiss suddenly got violent their strict laws would not stop them from killing.

            If I’m living in a country that does have a lot of violent assholes, which I do, then I want to have a weapon so I can shoot them before they can hurt me or my family. Because make no mistake if one or more of these bad people start to hurt one of us, the chance of the police coming in time to save us is about 0%. The police get there in time to make a report on the tragedy. You do know that right?

            Most parts of the US are actually quite safe, most of the murders are committed by a fairly small demographic. One more point, in the urban areas where most of the criminals are at. If someone there wanted to kill someone and actually get away with it, then a gun would be the worse choice. Because it makes too much noise. Some of the most violent country’s do not allow guns by any civilians. Austrailia is full of illegal guns and the UK has a lot of violent crime, and the innocent people there are not allowed to even defend themselves.

        • Myk

          “If the citizens of China were allowed to own guns the government (thugs)
          would think twice about entering any home without legal protection.”

          As Rick said, Property developers aren’t government.
          Or are you saying that in general, Home invasions don’t happen in the US?

          • actionjksn

            Home invasions happen in the US to people who the invaders do not believe are armed. If they think you have guns then they pick someone else. If someone kicks in my door they will get lit up with an excellent Norinco MAK90 Chinese made Kalashnikov. I’ve had it ready for some asshole home invader since 1999. If I can’t get to that, then my Glock 23 will also take care of it. Which is like the AK of pistols. Also known for extreme reliability and durability.

            By the way you Chinese people may be interested to know that the Chinese Norinco and the Polytech are some of the highest quality and most sought after and expensive AK’s on the US market. They have an excellent trigger, and thicker receivers and barrels than most other models. They are selling for $1,200 to $1,500 + US dollars these days. You can get a decent AR15 cheaper than you can a real Chinese AK style rifle. But that’s mainly because there are no more being imported. The receivers are 1.5 mm thick vs the standard 1mm

        • Dick Leigh

          I lived in Jiangsu during the time there was a mass murderer. Ex-military, he carried a handgun and after robbing people he’d shoot them point blank in the head.

          Yeah… I don’t want China to have guns.

          • Alex Dương

            We have such tragedies here in the U.S. as well. I don’t think they justify the type of gun control that is advocated following these events any more than the tragedy you described does for China.

    • FYIADragoon

      Yes, because guns are the only method of holding a government accountable to the populace. Oh my, those poor Britons and Aussies, their government oppressing and enslaving the populace at large.

  • Edward Kay

    must be on a plot of gold. hope someone demolishes mine.

  • mr.wiener

    Do we know this is the case?

  • Foreign Devil

    I don’t suppose they had home insurance? I guess even if they did it would not cover acts of terrorism.

  • Guest

    Capt. PIcard, Resistance Is Futile…

  • hacienda

    “no respect for the law …”
    it’s the law who did it to the couple.

  • Dick Leigh

    Aren’t the Chinese commenting and sharing this story rumour-mongering? Forced demolitions just don’t happen in the Heavenly Kingdom.

  • David

    I think you are making a LOT of assumptions, unless you live in the neighborhood and know more about this than we do. Of course over-greedy people can be a problem for legitimate civil projects. But lets be honest, 95% of the time the problem is not the people who are having their homes demolished under them, most of the time the problem is the developer. So I think that is a big assumption. as for 147 of the 148 people moving out already, it is China, many of those people know what will happen to them if they do not cooperate no mater what the circumstances are. These people found out the hard way.

  • JabroniZamboni

    The Japanese strike again!

  • don mario

    nice reminder of what country you are actually living it. REALITY CHECK!

  • Mateusz82

    “No respect for the law at all! Execute those who engage in barbaric forced demolitions!!! The government must stand forward and give the society’s disadvantaged and dispossessed justice!”

    I can’t tell if the faith in the government is sincere, or sarcastic.

  • SonofSpermcube

    Eh? What’s your standard for “decent?” There are plenty of 5-7k places in Beijing, even inside the 3rd ring road.

    If you’re interested, though, I know where you could live for 300 RMB a month in Beijing. Not as large or nice as he describes, of course.

  • Ryo Saeba

    This is in an area just outside the heart of Guangzhou.

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»