Elderly Person Blocks Bus and Traffic After Not Getting Seat

An elderly man and woman stand in front of a bus preventing it from leaving to protest the college students inside for not giving up their seats for the elderly in Baoding city, Hebei province of China.

The most-discussed article on Chinese web portal NetEase at time of translation…

From NetEase:

Elderly Person Blocks Bus and Holds Up Traffic for 2 Hours Because No One Gave Up Their Seat For Him

On the issue of giving up seats on the bus, public opinion is once again in an uproar.

September 21, on a Hebei province Baoding city 61 Route public bus, as a result of a college student not giving up their seat for him, an elderly person got off the bus and then threw a fit, standing in the middle of the road with a woman traveling with him using their bodies to block the public bus, screaming “no one leaves”. Under police mediation, the farce lasted two hours before it was ended, and the road was no longer impeded.

On the 23rd, an eyewitness of the scene told The Paper that there was a student on the public bus at the time who had given up his/her seat, but the elderly person disliked the seats as not being a good seat and refused to sit in it. The entire bus thought the elderly person didn’t want to sit and thus no one else offered their seat. The eyewitness says that because the elderly person blamed the “indifferent” driver after blocking the bus, many of the students on the bus insisted on staying until the mediation was over before leaving, to testify on behalf of the driver, feeling he had been “wronged”.

Route 61 dispatcher Ni Junge told The Paper that during the police mediation, the driver had expressed that he was partly responsible too, and that the police ultimately did not punish either the driver or the elderly person, but instead immediately released them.

china-hebei-elderly-man-blocks-public-bus-holds-up-traffic-for-a-seat-01

This incident was first reported by netizen “W—恋战”, who published a post with photos on the Baidu Baoding subforum.

According to the information published by “W—恋战”, on the afternoon of the 21st, when a Route 61 public bus headed towards Baoding University arrived at Hongqi Avenue, an unexpected scene occurred. An elderly person and a woman got off the bus, walked into the middle of the road, and obstructed the Route 61 public bus that had already begun leaving the bus stop, the two of them using their bodies as a “meat shield”, obstinately blocking the front of the bus, prompting the driver to immediately slam on the brakes.

“W—恋战” says while this woman was blocking the bus, she yelled at passersby: “We’re [likely referring to the elderly person] so old, college students these days have no character, not a single one of them gave up their seats for us, and the bus driver doesn’t care either, so everyone can forget about leaving today, we’ll just waste time like this!”

“After they got on board, there was someone who offered them their seat. They felt the seat wasn’t good enough so they didn’t take it. Everyone else thought they didn’t want to sit down, so no one else offered them their seat.” At least 7-8 university students indicated that after they had boarded the bus at the Beiguo Shopping Mall stop, they had voluntarily offered their seats but were declined.

After the two blocked the bus, someone had enough and called the police. It was already past 5pm at the time, which happened to be rush hour, and as a result Hongqi Avenue was exceptionally congested.

During that time, there were college students who got off to reason with the two: “Someone gave up their seat for you but you didn’t take it, so you incessantly saying us college students have no character, that’s just you exploiting your age”.

china-hebei-elderly-man-blocks-public-bus-holds-up-traffic-for-a-seat-02

“W—恋战” says that during the police mediation, the two blamed the students’ characters of not giving up their seats on the driver being “indifferent”. The students on the bus who had classes to go to refused to switch to another bus and instead stayed with the driver to testify on his behalf, “the poor driver”.

From when the incident began until when it was finally mediated, about two hours had passed and the day was already dark. “W—恋战” indicated that after the driver admitted “fault”, the police had the students return onto the bus, whereupon the bus once again set out while the elderly person and woman also left.

On the 23rd, Route 61 dispatcher Ni Junge confirmed the incident of the bus being blocked. He expressed that the public bus was exceptionally crowded at the time, that the passengers were basically all college students headed towards the terminal/last stop. After the elderly person and woman boarded the bus, someone at the front of the bus (unsure if it was a college student) wanted to give up their seat to the elderly person, but “the elderly person felt the seat was too high and did not take it”, and when he walked to the back of the bus, no one gave up their seat. Afterward, the elderly person blocking the bus incident happened.

Ni Junge stressed that when the elderly person boarded, the driver did announce that passengers should give up their seats for the elderly and handicapped, and was not “indifferent”.

According to Ni Junge’s account, during the police mediation, the driver had at the time expressed that he was partially responsible, and the police ultimately did not punish either the drive or the elderly person, immediately releasing them.

Comments from NetEase:

死面饼 死面饼 [网易天津市滨海新区手机网友]:

Elderly people have already become a public nuisance. This is definitely not an isolated incident.

网易广东省广州市手机网友 ip:14.18.*.*

Obstructing traffic, should be arrested.

lzyyl [网易重庆市手机网友]:

Disturbing the public order and causing a disturbance, these crimes are normally invoked quite readily [by the authorities], so how come they invoked when they should be? And instead they use mediation?

网易辽宁省锦州市手机网友 ip:123.187.*.*

Exploiting old age.

酱油一下 [网易广西南宁市手机网友]:

This disease needs to be treated.

长处副局帖跟 [网易广东省汕头市手机网友]:

Bad people have become old.

网易浙江省温州市手机网友 ip:124.160.*.*

Old bastard that won’t die, better be careful of being run over.

网易浙江省杭州市手机网友 ip:115.231.*.*

Some elderly people do in fact exploit their old age, those bastards. It’s not that the old have become bad, it’s that the bad have become old.

真理自在人中 [网易湖北省襄阳市手机网友]:

Motherfucking bullshit.

佳恒 [网易上海市手机网友]:

What a strange country.

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  • Karze

    Young and old in China have become such a selfish.

    • 白色纯棉小裤裤

      The students in this story are pretty unselfish, they had class but decided to stay with the bus driver to get him out of trouble.

      • mr.wiener

        That was surprising…encouraging even.

      • SongYii

        I wonder if there could have been a selfish motive to do that, such as…. get excused for missing class? get back at the old man for screwing up their day? :-D I’m only half serious.

      • ClausRasmussen

        I really like they stayed to support the driver. Maybe they saved him for a lot of trouble explaining himself to the police

      • Jahar

        Was it about being unselfish or sticking it to the old prick? Doing good things for selfish reasons is still selfish.

        • David

          It is also still a good thing.

        • 白色纯棉小裤裤

          Waiting there for 2 hours just to get back at the old man? That doesn’t make sense.

      • Teacher in China

        Really? Because my first thought was “Students – any excuse to miss a class!”

        • 白色纯棉小裤裤

          In university you don’t need excuses to miss a class, plus when you miss a class you want to have some fun, not standing in the middle of the road for 2 hours.

    • mr.wiener

      He was offered a seat ,but was unhappy with it.

      • Boris

        Don’t know why, they’re all pretty much the same on the public busses. Hard and uncomfortable.

  • Dannisi

    And once again we can describe China in 1 word: Selfish.
    It’s sad

    • Janus

      Just like how we can describe
      American in 1 word: Fat
      Scots in 1 word: stingy
      Indians in 1 word: Lazy
      Koreans in 1 word: Angry?

      seems like the only sad person is you.

      • SongYii

        I don’t know about the others, but you CAN describe America as “fat”. Far more than half the adult population is clinically obese, and I’m pretty sure kids are approaching the halfway mark too.

        Chinese, in general, are fucking selfish. The Chinese I associate with closely, which is plenty, are not. Thats one reason they are in my life. But average Chinese you see on the street or supermarket will step over you choking to death if it means waiting 30 seconds less in line.

        • Janus

          I agree with all the generalisations and stereotype of a group, except they are ‘plenty’ that aren’t like that, which is why I still ‘associate with (them) closely’.

          are you contradicting yourself on purpose, or do you genuinely not realise that you’ve just shot yourself in the foot?

          • SongYii

            Ok, let’s try to come up with other words that mean “general”:

            Common, usual, widespread, typical.

            Now let’s think of words that *do not* mean “general”

            Absolute, complete, without exception.

            To demonstrate mastery, let’s work together to properly use “general” in a sentence:

            In general, chinasmack commenters are fair-minded, smart people with a love/hate relationship for China, but plenty are two-faced asshats who can barely cobble together the words of a sentence to make sense of what they read.

            Got it? Oh, good, I’m so happy.

            下课。

          • Kai

            If you wanted your example to more accurately parallel your earlier remark about “Chinese, in general,” being “fucking selfish”, it should be:

            “In general, chinasmack commenters are two-faced asshats who can barely cobble together the words of a sentence to make sense of what they read, but plenty are fair-minded, smart people with a love/hate relationship for China.”

            …which is ironically accurate in the opinion of some cS readers.

          • SongYii

            I wasnt trying to parallel my previous comment.

            If I were, it would not be necessary to make the generalization negative to do so.

            I genuinely believe most of the commenters here are fair-minded and smart.

          • Kai

            “fucking selfish” was a pretty negative generalization whereas “fair-minded, smart” is pretty positive.

            So, IF you were trying to parallel, then I do think it would be necessary to make the generalization negative followed with the positive “plenty”.

            I’m sure most the commenters appreciate your good impression of them. I just thought it was funny because there are actually a lot of people who have a very negative impression of cS’s commenting community.

          • SongYii

            Well, anyway, my point was to clarify the meaning of “generalization” for our friend Janus.

        • NicolasBourbaki

          Sadly you are correct. The moral character of the average Chinese is very low.

          • DC

            and the French in one word = Cowards!
            well “Stinky” could also work. but coward is more globally acknowledged.

          • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

            So to describe humans in one word: assholes.

          • DC

            word.

          • RichHoss

            Most of the world knows the French aren’t cowards because they’ve fought with or against them and lost a time or two. Most of the world does not base their historical and/or world knowledge on what they learn from the simpsons

          • SongYii

            the french were badasses until post-world war europe, kicking all kinds of ass. now they just kind of fold up unless their cheese, wine, or oil is threatened.

          • Kai
          • SongYii

            sorry, forgot what a pussy charles de gaulle was.

          • NicolasBourbaki

            Yes, the French probably are stinkier than the average person. No dispute there.

          • Kai

            I’ve always wondered why the French have this negative stereotype and have gotten such a variety of answers that I’m not certain of which is correct. For example, some have said it’s because of their bathing habits while others have said it’s cigarette breath. Maybe I should ask on Quora or something.

          • SongYii

            well, im often willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but this ‘other countries have people like this too’ argument is a non-argument… its just a whine.

            america is full of fatties. ‘bluuuurgh, argh, well, other countries have fat people too.’ sure, but , america is *really* full of fatties.

            i think people are much more selfish here, but thats much more troubling to measure and report, so theres always some naysayer when it comes up, and they deserve to get shot down.

        • Jahar

          If you’re gonna shoot for accuracy, get on them stats first. it’s closer to 1/3 obese, another 1/3 just overweight.

          • SongYii

            ok ok… but overweight is still fat!

        • Gord

          Just curious, what’s the second most obese country in the world?

      • whuddyasack
      • Jahar

        Canadians in 1 word: Awesome

        • David

          See, now I would have said Canadians one word: Americans

          • Kai

            LoL, ouch, ‘dem be fightin’ words!

          • David

            OK, in fairness, it should be two words, America light. and I mean that in a good way.

          • SongYii

            Diet America.

          • Jahar

            I wish i could do the wechat emoticons here. i would do tears, then angry, then yelling then giggling.

          • SongYii

            i often want to use them too.

      • CIA

        Indians aren’t lazy.

      • Cameron

        Of course a one word generalization is just for jokes and no more. But most Chinese themselves consider Chinese people selfish and being of “low quality”.

        That’s not to say they are “bad”people per se, that’s just the way Chinese society is. Not particularly considerate or friendly toward individual strangers, unless perhaps an individual is representative of a family, company etc. Perhaps things have changed somewhat in the paradises of the first tier cities, I wouldn’t know.

        I think the communist/confucian education is a lot to blame – both at school and home. Teaches students to suck up to anyone in perceived authority (ie government figures, teachers, class monitors, clever classmates, parents) but apparently very little about simple mutual respect regardless of background or “merits” or position,

        • SongYii

          which is strange because confucius himself spent his career frustrated that he could get higher position or recognition for his work because he came from a low status family.

      • miakotamatsue

        I’ve seen more fat Europeans especially those from the UK than I’ve seen fat Americans. Don’t get me started on the Mexicans.

    • mr.wiener

      (Liberal warning!!)
      Can we in all fairness describe all of China in this one incident ?

      • SongYii

        How about the countless articles on Chinasmack, a fraction of those which run in Chinese media, about similar incidents?

        These past few days you’ve been pretty disingenuous, Mr. Wiener. Stop pretending not to know better.

        • mr.wiener

          I’m trying to be more ingenuous… really , really.
          My point is (trying not to sound too much like a liberal with a dick the size of a peanut), that although this can be seen as an example of Chinese weirdness:
          1.Self entitled old prick.
          2. Crowd of people gawking.
          3. (slightly) self righteous victims.
          4. Ineffective policing.
          It cannot be seen as a summation of China as a whole.

          • SongYii

            well, thats fine, but you said, in particular, that the commenter shouldnt say chinese are selfish based on this one incident. thats the part i to which i objected. :-)

          • Kai

            well, thats fine, but you said, in particular, that the commenter shouldnt say chinese are selfish based on this one incident. thats the part i to which i objected. :-)

            Wait…so you’re saying people shouldn’t object to judging an entire nationality on the basis of a single incident? Meaning people should be allowed to judge an entire nationality on the basis of a single incident, without anyone else objecting?

          • SongYii

            Read the earlier posts.

          • Kai

            I did?

            1. Dannisi says China can be described with one word.

            2. mr.wiener asks if it is fair to describe all of China on the basis of one incident.

            3. You argue that there have been countless similar incidents reported on cS, suggesting that Dannisi’s description of China is justified by multiple incidents. You also accuse mr.wiener of being disingenuous, suggesting that he’s being dishonest by questioning if it is fair to describe all of China on the basis of one incident.

            4. mr.wiener clarifies his point that while this incident can be seen as containing lots of phenomenon stereotypically associated with China, it shouldn’t be seen as a “summation of China as a whole”. In other words, he doesn’t think such incidents justify describing the entire country of China in one word: “selfish”.

            5. You say his point is fine, but seem to want to clarify to him that you were objecting to him saying Dannisi shouldn’t say Chinese are selfish based on this one incident.

            6. I ask you to clarify if you’re saying mr.wiener shouldn’t object to Dannisi judging an entire country on the basis of a single incident, because that’s what #5 looked like to me.

            So I’ve read the earlier posts, am uncertain I understand your #5 response to mr.wiener, and am asking you to clarify what you mean.

          • SongYii

            Thanks for the needless play by play. Here’s a synopsis.

            One guy described China in one word, Weiner said don’t do that based on one incident, I said he’s not basing it on one incident, there are numerous examples on this site.

            FIN

          • mr.wiener

            That is Wiener, of the Wangeratta Wieners thankew.

          • Kai

            First, the play by play was to demonstrate that I’ve done what you instructed me to.

            Second, you have no idea if he’s basing it on one incident. You identified with Dannisi’s generalization, felt mr.wiener’s admonishment threatened it, and sought to defend it.

            So, there are countless reports of black people being criminals in the media. Am I therefore justified in saying there is one word to describe all black people: criminals?

            There’s an inherent lack of wisdom when seeking to negatiely generalize a country or large population, more so when you then try to defend it.

          • SongYii

            oh, sorry, i got confused because the original commenter mentioned said ‘china’.

          • mr.wiener

            Hitchhiker’s guide the galaxy: Earth… (mostly) harmless.

          • SongYii

            I’m slightly embarrassed to say, never read it, never saw it.

          • mr.wiener

            I’m showing my age apparently…
            I was reminded of it because a women in Florida had plastic surgery to get a third breast…. I’d hesitate to say all Floridians should be judged on the basis of this story……but is there something weird in the water there?

          • SongYii

            sounds like theres something weird in the brain.

            hitchhikers guide was popular when i came of age

          • mr.wiener

            Eccentric Gambolits the triple breasted whore of Erotica 7, described by Zapharoid Beiblbrocks as “the best bang since the big one”.
            A classic series.

          • SongYii

            I love to motorboat that.

          • Jahar

            if there are 3, we could both motorboat that.

          • SongYii

            hell, lets add two more and get sideboob in on the action!

          • SongYii

            sounds like theres something weird in the brain.

            hitchhikers guide was popular when i came of age, i just never happen to read it. Im 33.

          • SongYii

            also, you might be able to characterize floridians as nutjobs if there were many reports of 3 breasted pig- women, the same way there are numerous reports of obnoxious, entitled, abusive elderly in china.

          • Kai

            IF you want the argument to be parallel, the criteria should be equally specific or broad. For example, there are many reports of obnoxious, attention-seeking women with questionable plastic surgery in Florida (or let’s expand it to the US?), just as there are many reports of obnoxious, entitled, abusive elderly in China.

          • SongYii

            its a hypothetical… there arent numerous reports of 3 breasted women. otherwise, you just repeated what i said.

          • Kai

            There aren’t numerous reports of elderly people standing in front of buses to protest college kids either. My point was about the different levels of specificity in the criteria you used for your comparison.

            You come across as suggesting Dannisi is justified in condemning all of China as “selfish” on the basis of multiple reports about “obnoxious, entitled, abusive elderly in China”, while critcizing the condemning of all Floridians as “nutjobs” because there aren’t multiple reports of “3 breasted pig-women”. You used a broader criteria for the former but a far more specific criteria for the latter in order to justify acceptance of one but rejection of the other. What I did was make the criteria in both more equal, so it is a fairer comparison.

            If we can’t use “obnoxious, attention-seeking omen with questionable plastic surgery” to describe all Floridians or the entire United States as “nutjobs”, we shouldn’t use “obnoxious, entitled, abusive elderly” to describe all Chinese or all of China as “selfish”.

            Comparisons, even hypothetical ones, should be fair, not rigged.

          • Amused

            Is something weird with you that sometime after seeing em in Total Recall you never wondered about the possibilities and bragging rights the experience of bagging a three-tittied bitch would contain?

          • Kai

            Hah, saw that story too. I was hoping for a Total Recall allusion in the article I read but left unsatisfied.

      • that guy

        it’s not about looking at China through a black or white lense (they are this, or they are that). it’s about looking at the number of these types of incidents proportional to those you hear about in other countries. yes, it would be wrong to generalize China based on one single incident, yes stupid douche bags exist in every country. but if you take 100 Chinese versus 100 Canadians, Germans, Koreans, etc….you would have a higher ratio of the first group doing stupid shit like this, I have no doubt

        example: I come from one of the most rural parts of Vermont where you’re lucky to see one minority in a week. definitely not that many Asians. were a Chinese person to visit rural Vermont, the rednecks would pause and say/think “oh…that’s interesting.” yet in China, that same scenario with a “lao wai” would be played out by families making a scene by stopping and making sure their kids see the foreigner; Chinese teenagers openly making comments and pointing; old people staring and making ridiculous assertions based on NO KNOWLEDGE; etc.

        so no, you can’t describe all of China in this one incident. but you can say with confidence it reinforces an already widely-held, observation-based idea that China takes civility to all-time lows.

        • Kai

          Expressing that you feel Chinese people are more likely to behave a certain way compared to others is one thing. Hyperbolic negative generalizations is another that crosses over into prejudice.

          For example: “China takes civility to all-time lows”.

          Really? All-time? Compared to the entire world? Where so much of the world is even less developed and more impoverished than China? Can you really say “with confidence” that China “takes civility to all-time lows”?

          You shouldn’t.

          People need to learn how to express themselves in more measured, rational ways.

          • SongYii

            civility and economic development arent the same thing at all. indians are poor as shit, their environment is filthy, but they are generally very friendly, and are more likely to ignore a white face than gawk at or harass it.

          • Kai

            No, they aren’t, as evidenced by how the Japanese behaved in World War 2, or how many Americans and Westerners behave today despite being from economically first-world countries.

            Still, there’s a healthy correlation between many aspects of “social civility” and “economic development”, as we’ve seen over time in just about every country, including China. The more economicly developed a society is, the more it tends to rise on Maslow’s hierarchy, the more it devotes its energies towards fostering civic consciousness and refinement in manners and interpersonal relations.

            What you said about Indians is confounded by a different sociological history (the British Raj affected how Indians relate with white people) AND is an inaccurate juxtaposition against the Chinese. Chinese people are also “generally very friendly” to foreigners, just as there are plenty of foreigners who have had bad experiences with Indians in India gawking or harassing them (remember the rape cases?). I seriously hope you’re not trying to argue that Chinese are “generally” hostile to foreigners.

            My point remains that “China takes civility to all-time lows” is a hyperbolic negative generalization that an intelligent, rational person shouldn’t have any confidence in saying. Do you disagree?

          • SongYii

            yes, i know. youre an apologist for chinese incivility, reflected in your comments time and time again.

            the comment is hyperbolic. knowing that, readers arent taking it too seriously, so chill. not everyone here is trying to prove how smart they are.

            i love how we fought such a battle yesterday about not over-generalizing based on a handful of news reports, but youre now ready to equate chinese incivilty with indian because of a few high profile gang rape cases, most of which are not perpetrated on foreign women (relevant because you specified behavior toward foreigners).

            kai kai kai, a new double standard everyday!

          • that guy

            fine, I might be guilty of some prejudice, built on years of being treated like a funny exhibit in the Smithsonian that is to be stared at. I admit that. with admiration, hostility, or otherwise..I don’t care. but i take comfort in the fact that my prejudices and conceived notions about any other group of people could never match the levels of prejudice, discrimination and racism displayed by the Chinese.

          • Kai

            I think it takes a big man to admit that they are guilty of some prejudice. It shows introspection and enough security to recognize where one may have faults, and perhaps a willingness to confront those faults.

            The ideal situation is: “wow, maybe I’m being prejudiced here, I should try to avoid that, because I don’t want to be a prejudiced person.”

            That you comfort (arguably excuse) yourself by arguing that the Chinese are worse is not so impressive. That’s like saying, “yeah, I’m bad, but at least I’m not as bad as black people.”

            Chinese people use the same rationalization. So how are you really any better than they are?

          • SongYii

            “Chinese people use the same rationalization.”

            WHOA WHOA WHOA, HOLD ON JUST A SECOND!!!

            Did Kai just make a generalization about Chinese people and not back it up with decades of social scientific research????

            Do you really mean to say ALL Chinese use this rationalization, and nobody *outside* of China does (except that guy)??

            Oh, this is just too rich, this is gonna make me fat!

          • Kai

            Wow, now you’re just being disingenuous. It’s pretty obvious in context what Chinese I’m referring to (those who use the same rationalization). On the other hand, “China takes incivility to all-time lows” is a declaratory statement about an entire nation, not specific people. Nice try, though.

          • SongYii

            Shit. Kai wins every single time.

          • SongYii

            reply to kai, brother! :-)

          • Kai

            Sean, the double standard here is that you demand the Chinese to be more measured in their comments about others than you demand of comments made about the Chinese.

            Your personal attacks against me about me trying to prove how smart I am or whatever just reflects your own insecurity. When people articulate a point or a disagreement, they are not necessarily trying to prove how smart they are. Often, they’re just articulating a point or disagreement. Learn to cope with it without descending into the immature sarcasm, ad hominems, and name-calling you’ve resorted to so many times now.

            Yes, it’s hyperbolic, and it’s also something “that guy” double-downed on by claiming he could say it “with confidence”. I argue that such an expression crosses over into prejudice. Feel free to argue why it doesn’t.

            No, I’m not equating Chinese incivility with Indian incivility, I’m saying there is more than enough “incivility” in both and the person who juxtaposes them eager to prove the superiority of one over the other is being DISHONEST. It is just like how whuddyasack is always so eager to argue how Westerners are worse than Asians or how Asians are better than Westerners. You are doing the same damn thing.

            In your eagerness to defend a hyperbolic negative generalization about the Chinese, you whitewash Indians and paint them as a stark difference, when it isn’t established as true.

            Whereas I believe humans are generally humans everywhere, with good and bad apples, or good apples that are bad sometimes (and vice versa), you are overeager to establish SOME humans are generally “better” than OTHERS.

            That’s not a very enlightened way of thinking. It’s petty.

            You are not content with people being people, you MUST establish superiority and inferiority between broad groups of people. You MUST paint people as good or bad.

            The question is: WHY?

            You are operating on a DEFAULT assumption that Chinese incivility is a given, and then dishonestly juxtaposing Indians against the Chinese. There are tons of foreigners in India who have had negative experiences with the Indians comparable to foreigners who have had negative experiences with the Chinese in China. There’s novelty gawking, discrimination, xenophobia, fleecing, scams, pretty much everything that has unfortunately happened to foreigners in China. But you pretend there isn’t or that it is negligible while exaggerating how unfriendly Chinese people are in contrast. You cherry-pick. There is no lack of popular criticisms of India and Indians by foreigners, just as in China. Both places are culture shocks to Westerners with huge populations of unrefined, uncouth, poorly educated low-class populations that often inadvertently rub sensitive foreigners the wrong way. Either travel more or read more.

            You are not content to decry bad behavior where it exists, you are too eager–even insistent–on associating bad behavior with generalized races, ethnicities, or nationalities. You need to ask yourself why you are so defensive when people caution against, object to, or admonish prejudicial remarks.

            What is your profit in arguing that people should be allowed to make prejudicial remarks without anyone taking issue?

            Or is “China takes civility to all-time lows” NOT a prejudicial remark?

          • SongYii

            what! hahaha… when did i set some disparate standards for chinese commenters? thats demonstably untrue!

            YOU ABSOLUTELY insult me all the time! You just do it insidiously so you can disavow it later if I call you on it… so I dont bother. I just throw it back at you.

            It might be prejudiced, or it might be someone making a casual gripe and doubling down because some other guy is taking it waaaay too seriously.

            Please, please… my god, everyone in all countries are the same? This myth of egalitarianism has many heads. Some people are definitely better than others. People are only as good as their behavior, and some countries cultures (culture! customs and behaviors of a people of a nation!) espouse an obnoxious dearth of manners. Even Xi Jinping knows this to the extent that he made a public service announcement asking outgoing tourists not to be assholes when they go to the Maldives. Or, perhaps, are you and the head-bashing rapist equal?

            Your logic, not mine!

            Ive traveled into the heart of both countries, I have some idea of what Im talking about. And thats what people here are talking about… their personal experiences. Indians are generally much better mannered than Chinese IN MY EXPERIENCE. Its not my onus to explain or understand why. Who cares if they relate better to white people because of British occupation or where they fall on Maslonian social models? That does nothing to explain why loads of chinese men smoke cigarettes in elevators and block traffic because they cant wait 2 minutes for the next green light.

            I didnt say you cant take issue. I didnt say, ‘oh, you kai, why dont you just get outta here.’ I just disagreed with you! Haha! Whos the one that doesnt want to be disagreed with again? Its me? Same issue about oranges and reds I broached yesterday.

            And heres your argument pattern: ‘blergh, im kai, im going psychoanalyze everyone I disagree with, then Im going to tell you you are wrong just because thats my prerogative, write hundreds of words of red herring and straw man arguments, mischaracterize your comment, and rub it in your stupid face!’

            Brilliant. Applause.

          • Kai

            what! hahaha… when did i set some disparate standards for chinese commenters? thats demonstably untrue!

            Really? You’re going to sit there and claim you’ve never complained and took offense to negative generalizations Chinese people have made?

            YOU ABSOLUTELY insult me all the time! You just do it insidiously so you can disavow it later if I call you on it… so I dont bother. I just throw it back at you.

            Please go ahead and articulate how I have insulted you, “insidiously”, preferably with links and quotations respecting context. For the most part, I think I’m usually just articulating objection, disagreement, and criticism. I’m pretty upfront with these things, communicating them directly to the person involved, and always welcoming them to defend their position.

            Off the top of my head, once when you ran out of things to say, you ended up just calling me a dick. Another time, you just told me to shut up. Most of the time you engage in sarcastic mockery, and then ocassionally insult me with other commenters you cozy up to. Am I insulting you by pointing out these behaviors of yours?

            It might be prejudiced, or it might be someone making a casual gripe and doubling down because some other guy is taking it waaaay too seriously.

            A casual “gripe” can also be a prejudiced and offensive to others, just like how Chinese people make casual “gripes” that also reveal prejudice and is offensive to others. cS is a repository of such instances. Time and time again we see Chinese netizens make some throwaway comment that gets dog-piled by our commenting community for how prejudiced and obnoxious it is.

            Have you ever stepped up to defend those Chinese netizens? To dismiss all the people criticizing them by arguing that it was just a “casual gripe” and that the people who are critical are “taking it waaaay too seriously”?

            No.

            You have a double-standard.

            Please, please… my god, everyone in all countries are the same? This myth of egalitarianism has many heads. Some people are definitely better than others. People are only as good as their behavior, and some countries cultures (culture! customs and behaviors of a people of a nation!) espouse an obnoxious dearth of manners. Even Xi Jinping knows this to the extent that he made a public service announcement asking outgoing tourists not to be assholes when they go to the Maldives. Or, perhaps, are you and the head-bashing rapist equal?

            Pointing out the differences between me and the head-bashing rapist–two individuals–is different from damning entire nationalities/races.

            As I have already said, pointing out that there is a dearth of manners in a country is different from declaring that country to “take civility to an all-time low”. Do you really think such a remark made about some other country like, I dunno, Mexico or India or whatever, would not also be met with some pushback?

            Bill Cosby has criticized black society, but does that mean I can now “with confidence” say that American black society “takes incivility to all-time lows”? There have been Hong Kongers who have criticized their own, but does that mean Kong Qingdong can freely call Hong Kongers “dogs”?

            No.

            There are ways to make criticisms without being needlessly offensive and irrationally prejudiced.

            Do you disagree?

            If not, then why are you defending needlessly offensive and irrationally prejudiced remarks?

            Ive traveled into the heart of both countries, I have some idea of what Im talking about. And thats what people here are talking about… their personal experiences. Indians are generally much better mannered than Chinese IN MY EXPERIENCE. Its not my onus to explain or understand why. Who cares if they relate better to white people because of British occupation or where they fall on Maslonian social models? That does nothing to explain why loads of chinese men smoke cigarettes in elevators and block traffic because they cant wait 2 minutes for the next green light.

            I never said Indians relate “better” to white people because of British occupation. It’s interesting that you interpreted it that way, but I’ll ignore that for now because it’s irrelevant to the discussion at hand:

            There’s a difference between saying “Indians are friendlier than Chinese in my experience” and “China takes incivility to all-time lows”.

            You are strawmanning me as being critical of people saying the former when I am being critical of people saying the latter, “with confidence” no less.

            You know what your misleading vividness fallacy about Chinese men smoking in elevators and blocking traffic remind me of?

            https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=india+unsafe+for+foreigners

            And seriously now, India has horrible instances people blocking traffic. You’ve been into the heart of India? Really?

            The point is: all the crap (pollution, lecherous men, unrefined manners, public spitting, me-first traffic behaviors, etc.) someone experiences in India wouldn’t magically make “India takes incivility to all-time lows” no longer a “prejudiced” remark. Same for China.

            I didnt say you cant take issue. I didnt say, ‘oh, you kai, why dont you just get outta here.’ I just disagreed with you! Haha! Whos the one that doesnt want to be disagreed with again? Its me?

            You’re arguing against me taking issue. You’re telling me I’m “taking things waaaay too seriously” and it’s not because what I said is false but because it makes you uncomfortable.

            And how are you disagreeing with me? Are you disagreeing with me that “China takes incivilitiy to all-time lows” isn’t a prejudiced remark? Are you disagreeing with me that it isn’t a hyperbolic negative generalization of an entire country? Are you disagreeing with me that there aren’t plenty of other countries in this world that possible have worse incivility? Are you disagreeing with me that incivility couldn’t possibly have been even lower at other times in history?

            I don’t think so, right? So what you’re disagreeing with IS me taking issue. You don’t want me to take issue with such remarks. You argue that they are justified by personal experiences. You argue that personal experiences allow people to damn entire countries and anyone who takes issue is “taking it waaaay too seriously”.

            Same issue about oranges and reds I broached yesterday.

            If China takes civility to all-time lows is true, then saying it does would be calling orange “orange”. But it isn’t true, not least of which because it is impossible to prove, so saying that would NOT be calling orange “orange”; it would be calling a bag of Skittles “orange” because there’s are some orange Skilttles in it.

            If my personal experiences lead me to say black people take incivility to all time lows, could I defend such a statement by arguing that I’m just calling orange “orange”?

            No.

            You know who uses that argument? whuddysack. Doesn’t it bother you that you are using the same arguments that whuddyasack uses to justify his prejudiced and racist remarks?

            And heres your argument pattern: ‘blergh, im kai, im going psychoanalyze everyone I disagree with, then Im going to tell you you are wrong just because thats my prerogative, write hundreds of words of red herring and straw man arguments, mischaracterize your comment, and rub it in your stupid face!’

            Okay, and my red herrings are what? What are my straw man arguments? How am I mischaracterizing anyone’s comment?

            When I accuse people of something like a straw man, I explain the straw man. I don’t just accuse people of it. You are just accusing me without arguing it.

            You’re upset that I’m articulating how “China takes incivility to all-time lows” is an irrational and prejudicial remark. You feel that me pointing it out is “rubbing it” in someone’s face. In other words, you’re chafing at being criticized. Instead of considering the validity of the criticism, you’re just indignant and resentful of being disagreed with or held accountable to logic and reason. You want to say what you want to say and not have anyone challenge you on it. Anyone who does is taking things “waaaay too seriously”.

            Let’s go back to my response to “that guy”:

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/stories/elderly-person-blocks-bus-and-traffic-after-not-getting-seat.html#comment-1604693106

            I said people should express themselves in more rational, measured ways.

            What is your objection to this? You have expressed disagreement with me three times now in response to that comment of mine. What is it about my exhortation for people to be more rational and measured in their speech that rubs you the wrong way? Is “China takes civility to all-time lows” so objectively true and completely inoffensive to you, as long as the person uttering it feels it is justified by their own personal experiences?

            Objecting to a prejudiced remark is not denying that person their negative experiences. It is just objecting to a prejudiced remark. Please recognize the distinction.

          • SongYii

            Whats the point? This is so tiresome.

            Look at the first two sentences. First you insist that I complain about Chinese netizen generalizations and challenge ME to show evidence that I don’t.

            Then you say “Oh, you think I am insulting? Prove it!”

            I guess you get two double standards today!

            Brilliant! Applause!

          • Kai

            Whats the point? This is so tiresome.

            I like how you accuse me of things and then decline to substantiate your accusations by claiming it’s too “tiresome”. That’s convenient.

            Look at the first two sentences. First you insist that I complain about Chinese netizen generalizations and challenge ME to show evidence that I don’t.

            Then you say “Oh, you think I am insulting? Prove it!

            Oh, I see, you think I’m guilty of a double standard because:

            1) instead of proving that you have a double-standard, I expressed disbelief that you’re actually going to claim that you don’t have double-standards;

            2) and then i immediately asked you to prove that I insult you “insiduously”.

            That’s fair. I shouldn’t have left it at disbelief simply because I thought it was so obvious that you have. Here: proof that you’ve complained and taken offense to Chinese negative generalizations.

            Oh, here’s a good one. Here, someone responded to Chinese negative generalizations about foreigners by saying Chinese men have tiny wangs. When someone objected to that bit of racism in response to racism, you jumped in to accuse that person of having a “tiny wang”. Instead of criticizing racism where it’s found fairly and equally, you complain about racism by the Chinese, say nothing about the ones against the Chinese, and even echo that racism when someone dares object to racism against the Chinese.

            I also like how you tried deleting these comments of yours,. Fortunately, WordPress keeps a local copy of all comments made through Disqus that preserves the identity of those who made the comments, even if they try deleting (anonymizing) them later.

            So, you have complained and taken offense to Chinese negative generalizations before. And if you’ve complained and taken offense to Chinese negative generalizations before, but are here defending a negative generalization about the Chinese, then you are guilty of having double-standards. In other words, it’s not okay when Chinese do it, but it’s okay when its done against the Chinese.

            Do you need me to go through more of your commenting history or will you acknowledge that you have been guilty of having double-standards?

            Can you now substantiate how I’ve “insidiously” insulted you “all the time”? I may have, and you have access to my comment history as well. I’m sure you can point out how I have set out to insult you.

            Otherwise, what is your objection to my exhortation that people be more rational and measured in their remarks?

        • SongYii

          when is seeing a minority ever ‘lucky’?

          :-D !

    • KenjiAd

      In China, when you were angry, you would be given a right to disrupt other people.

    • Guest

      Chinese people are brought up to respect the elders, since it is grounded in the Confucian culture. What you see in web reports are exceptions and as extraordinary events they are worthy to be reported on. I see many young people giving their seats to old people in China without ever making a fuss about it. But no one is reporting about it, since it makes no headline and actually should be the norm. If you were to make a generalization from these positive cases, then it would be China in 1 word Civilized.
      Not that I believe in word word generalizations of a huge country, just to show how flawed your reasoning is.

    • Xia

      Chinese people are brought up to respect the elders, since it is grounded in the Confucian culture. What you see in web reports are exceptions and as extraordinary events they are worthy to be reported on. I see many young people giving their seats to old people in China without ever making a fuss about it. But no one is reporting about it, since it makes no headline and actually should be the norm. If you were to make a generalization from these positive cases, then it would be China in 1 word Civilized.
      Not that I believe in one word generalizations of a huge country, just to show how flawed your reasoning is.

      • Cameron

        Wasn’t much respect for elders apparent during the Communists’ cultural revolution though. Perhaps that has changed attitudes somewhat – having the Communist party rule the country. Also probably helped make people more distrustful and less friendly toward strangers.

        • Kai

          There still was. The excesses of the Cultural Revolution were still the minority of day-to-day relations. For every kid who turned on their parent or went with the crowd in beating up some elderly capitalist roader, there were many more who didn’t. That’s not to say the Cultural Revolution didn’t influence Chinese society and leave its mark, because it certainly did, in many very undesirable and catastrophic ways, but it’s important to not go too far and think it completely inverted black and white for everyone.

        • Xia

          Chinese schools today hardly talk about the Cultural Revolution but instead instigate pupils to read classical texts that speak of Confucian ideas. It is a deliberate attempt by the state to forget the revolutionary ideologies of the past and revert to Chinese conservatism that is typical for past dynasties.
          Probably, Chinese authorities have always had a grasp on what is being taught and not being taught as a means of control, a tradition that goes way before the CCP came into power.

      • Teacher in China

        Living in a small town in China like I do, and knowing that there are thousands of other small towns in the country making up who knows what percentage of the total population of China, I have to disagree that we could use the word “civilized” for China. In the big cities, certainly, I have found that to be the case, but man in the backwater one horse towns people are rough around the edges. You can see it even in the “wai di ren” that live in big cities, especially the migrant workers (most of who come from small towns like mine).

        If I had to pick one word to sum up China at the moment, I don’t think there’s anything more appropriate than “conflicted”.

      • Dannisi

        I was with you till ‘Civilised’. Are you really saying China is civilised? All the shit I see every day in this country (not even counting the stuff you read online), civilised is the last word that comes to mind.

        • Guest

          Read closely. If you were to make a generalization out of some cases just like the other generalization that China is ‘Selfish’ then it would be ‘Civilized’ based on the positive cases that I have seen. How successful such generalizations are you seem to know all too well, so stop using one word generalizations of a whole country.

        • Xia

          Read closely. It’s intended as a counter-example. If you were to make a generalization out of some cases just like the other generalization that China is ‘Selfish’ then it would be ‘Civilized’ based on the positive cases that I have seen. How successful such generalizations are you seem to know all too well, so stop using one word generalizations of a whole country.

  • Rick in China

    Wow..this dude may have a case if he wasn’t offered a seat and refused it. Not good enough? What kind of nonsense is that.. it’s a public bus. I’m curious why his face is blocked out also, or what his real age is — it’s hard to tell, but standing there for 2 hours in cargo pants puffing on cigarettes doesn’t exactly imply he’s decrepit or needs to rest his legs.

    • SongYii

      There are very strong implications he is a self-entitled scumbag, though. ;-)

      • Rick in China

        Completely. He fucked up a lot of people’s schedules – and obviously wasn’t in a hurry himself. What a fucking douchebag. Wouldn’t feel bad if he ended up the same way as the other old guy who smacked the kid on the bus in the other recent story.

    • KamikaziPilot

      Just what I was thinking. You see the irony in this. He didn’t get the exact seat he wanted to rest his tired legs so to protest he ended up standing on his feet for 2 hours going nowhere. Also since he was old and he though the world should bow at his feet because of his presence on Earth longer than other, he reverted to acting like a 12 year old spoiled brat who throws a fit when they don’t get the toy they wanted. I swear some older people in China act like little kids when things don’t go their way. I always though you were supposed to mellow out the older you get.

      • Kai

        It sounds like a misunderstanding that they overreacted to, and then an unhealthy amount of obstinancy on their part.

        The article mentions that the initial seat offered to him in the front of the bus was too high.

        For those of you who have ridden the public bus in China, you might be familiar with how the seats are arranged on many buses. The seats in the front could be situated on top of the front wheel-well, just like the seats on the back are situated above the rear wheel-wells and rear engine compartment. This seat might be less convenient for an older person to climb onto, compared to the seats towards the middle of the bus that aren’t so high.

        Here’s an image for an example:

        http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news_images/2051_934.jpg

        http://www.winterson.com/pics/f1gp02.jpg

        Some buses don’t even have a row of seats on the wheel-well, but just a single seat, so high that your legs could dangle off it. I’m trying to find an image of one but not having any luck, so I’m hoping people have seen them as I have. There are so many different bus models and seat configurations so its hard to be certain what was involved in this case, but the narrative in the article suggests this is something worth considering.

        Anyway, the old guy passed on such a seat and he could’ve done so for a variety of legitimate reasons. He, and the woman with him, then proceded towards the back of the bus obviously expecting someone else to give up their seat for him, but no one did. Ostensibly, this was because they had seen him pass on a seat offered to him and they had assumed that he was content to stand. They didn’t know.

        However, when no one else offered their seat to him, the old man and woman throw a fit, get off, and proceed to block the bus, loudly and publicly shaming the students inside for not giving up their seats for the elderly.

        The question I have here is whether or not the old guy or woman vocalized why he passed on that initial seat. If they had kindly thanked the person who offered their seat in the front and explained that it was too high, thus hard for the old man to get into, and they were hoping for a more convenient seat that’s easier for the old man, AND it was loud enough for others to overhear, THEN there is less excuse for those who overheard to have assumed the old guy was content to stand. They would be selfishly playing stupid at that point.

        But we don’t know this. Or it’s even possible that they vocalized by the people further back simply and reasonably didn’t hear. They may have saw lips move and heard them talking but didn’t make out what they were saying, and thus still assume they were expressing their willingness to stand.

        Another thing is whether or not there were seats designated for the elderly. In my experience, they’re usually located in the middle of the bus, where the seats aren’t situated on top of the wheel-whells, rear axel, or engine compartment and thus much more convenient to get into and out of in addition to being located right by the rear exit. In one of the above images, there’s a yellow seat on the lower-left corner, and that’s an example of a designated seat for the elderly, etc.

        If there were such seats, I still think any student occupying it should’ve offered the seat for someone who qualifies. Maybe the students in them also saw what happened in the front and thought the old guy was content to stand. We don’t know. That’s what we’re led to believe.

        If there weren’t such designated seats, we still have to factor in that the bus driver apparently did publicly remind passengers to give up their seats to the elderly, which obligates every one regardless of their seat. But still, people may have misunderstood the old guy’s passing on the seat offered to him as him being cool with standing.

        I also want to wonder about just how old this guy looks and whether anyone simply didn’t think he was that old. If he’s the guy in the photo with the cigarette, I personally don’t think that body looks particularly old and frail. It looks like early 50s at most to me, which I personally do not consider “elderly”. Maybe some people thought he was content to stand while others thought he simply wasn’t an “elderly” person they are obligated to yield their seat to out of respect to the elderly.

        Overall, still, it sounds like a misunderstanding. I’m guessing (but don’t know) that the old man and woman flipped out before trying something less dramatic, like asking a student in a seat they preferred to yield their seat and explaining that its easier on the old guy’s back or legs or whatever. I’m guessing they didn’t think it right that they should have to ask and instead the students should’ve been proactively offering just at the sight of them. They thought others should be offering their seats, never thinking those people may have misunderstood their earlier declining of a seat offered to them. Instead of giving the students in those seats the benefit of the doubt, they assumed the students were little punks who don’t have proper respect for the elderly.

        We also don’t know how the confrontation and 2 hour mediation unfolded, in terms of people explaining their side. The old man and woman made it pretty clear in front of the bus that they were upset that the students didn’t give up their seats. I’m wondering how quickly someone explained that they saw them pass on the first seat and misunderstood them as being content to stand, and that all of this was a misunderstanding.

        I’d like to think the moment someone patiently and clearly explained that, both sides would realize it was an unfortunate but not unreasonable misunderstanding and get on with their lives. However, I think ego might’ve resulted in obstinancy, as is common in all sorts of public arguments and fights everywhere. Tempers flared and people became unreasonable, doubling-down on their positions, insisting on black and white stances, refusing to compromise or give each other the benefit of the doubt.

        Perhaps that’s how things were until the driver threw in the towel, conceded some fault to appease the other side, so everyone can just get on with life.

        • KamikaziPilot

          For christ sake Kai, get a grip! Did you really need all those words to express yourself, haha. Well those pics help me understand what he may have meant by the seats being “too high” but to me if he could stand in front of the bus for 2 hours he could have sit in those seats, or any other seats in the bus. Like you, I have a feeling that ego played a large part in this confrontation, essentially replacing logic, in what could have been resolved in a few minutes with better communication. So many conflicts everywhere are the result of poor communication. Also unless you were there, it’s impossible to know all the nuances of this situation so hard to say whether one party what definitively right or wrong, but just based on available information, I place greater blame on the “old” man.

          • Kai

            Heh, yeah, I’m pretty bad when I get into stream of consciousness mode. I stopped responding to you at one point and just started vomiting my train of thought about what happened. Thanks for slogging through it all though.

            Nah, I understand the irony of him standing in front of a bus for two hours over not getting a seat. It’s something I chuckled at too. I just immediately understand the nature of protest too. For example, if African-Americans people didn’t want to be subject to racism, why did put themselves in situations to antagonize racists? Because they did so as a form of public protest. They endured to make a point. Same with this old guy. He stood there because he wanted to make a point, so while the irony of the juxtaposition is amusing, it’s not like we don’t honestly know why he did that.

            Like you, based on what we know, I’m not very sympathetic to the old man and woman.

          • linette lee

            I don’t think the seat being high is the problem Kai. The seat has a platform there he can just take one step up and go sit on those seat and old people usually like high chair because sitting on low chair makes it harder for them to get up. Also if he has problem taking one step up a platform then he should have problem stepping onto the bus cause there are few steps there.
            Old people some of them have mental problem and are emotional unstable like children. It’s called mental depression. He was just acting out and wants attention.

          • Kai

            An eyewitness made the point about the first seat being offered to him being high. I’m only speculating about the possible reasons the old man declined that seat.

            I’ve also been on buses in China where the seat on the wheelwell is quite a bit higher than the platform underneath it, UNLIKE the images I provided, which is why I made a separate mention of those. I can imagine that being a pain for an elderly person to climb onto. They are literally so high off that you kinda have to jump onto them and end up with your legs dangling. IIRC, you’ve never been in mainland China, so you are unfamiliar with what I’m referring to. Those seats are not just “high”, they are “too high” (poor seating design by the bus manufacturer), just like seats that are “too low” are also undesirable for many elderly people.

            An elderly person may be able to rationalize taking the step onto the bus because they have to get somewhere, but they may not rationalize to hassle of taking a seat that is too high and inconvenient for them to get into when they feel there are better seats available to them.

            Whether or not he is emotionally unstable “like children” and acting out because he wants attention is not something I care to speculate on. Dismissing him as having a mental problem is like Kong Qingdong dismissing Hong Kongers “dogs” instead of trying to understand their grievances. There are more mundane explanations for the conflict that I think should be entertained first.

          • linette lee

            I see so maybe it’s true the seat are too high for him. But his behavior of public disturbance is unacceptable.

          • Tim Ngim

            I see no problem with the bus seats. They are ergonomic and as good as most Asian cities. Old man just want to create trouble.

        • TL;DR

      • linette lee

        How old is this guy? He has a woman with him so it’s not like he has no aid. And the seat that was offered to him wasn’t good enough? So he should just use his own BMW instead of public transportation. The police should just arrest him and let him stand two hours inside the jail cell.

        • KamikaziPilot

          How old? I don’t know but his physical condition obviously isn’t that bad since he can stand for 2 hours straight in front of the bus.

    • Indeed. If he can smoke he can stand.

  • Free Man

    I am curious on why the driver admitted “fault”. Not enforcing the rule of “old people can sit on a bus wherever they want, even if the seat is taken”? This old bastard did refuse a seat, so why make announcements?

    • SongYii

      I love your Lego tank man!

    • ClausRasmussen

      He admitted fault to save face of the elderly couple and thereby resolve the situation so that traffic could get moving again, the students get home, the police could move on to more serious businesses, he could get on with his job, and the World start spinning again…

      He did humankind a favor imo.

      • Kai

        Yep, it does sound like he basically admitted fault as a compromise to just appease the other party so life can go on.

      • NicolasBourbaki

        And that’s what is wrong with this country. He had no principle. He put “face” over what is just and right. If he or someone else had insisted with all the backup witnesses that this guy was acting like a douche, he would think twice about it next time. The reason why there are so many worthless and selfish people in this country is because they never learned how to respect others and be considerate because any time someone does something wrong a million people come out (family, friends, himself) trying to cover the guy’s ass so he or she won’t lose “face”. Oh woes me, you lost face! Sorry to hear that! Now continue to act like an asshat.” People have treated this guy and a billion others in China like him all his life like a spoiled child. That’s why there is no moral character in China. When you are treated like a spoiled brat your whole life, you act like one your whole life.

        • Teacher in China

          “And that’s what is wrong with this country”

          Christ, you sound like my grandfather at a family dinner….

          • NicolasBourbaki

            He must be a very wise man.

  • PeterScriabin

    To me, the strangest aspect of this story is that this couple were suffered to stand in front of the bus so long, not just blocking the lives of everyone on the bus (quite enough for 2 people in the wrong), but the entire line of rush-hour traffic behind them, on a one-lane street!

    Would not, in any other country, they have been more or less ceremoniously removed to the pavement (sidewalk), so that the bus could leave? And, then, the police not only listen politely to everyone’s point of view, but find that no one is at fault??

    Truly, China is a strange and charming country. There is something of the Middle Ages in this story.

    • Alex

      And if he could stand in the street for 2 hours, couldn’t he stand for a few minutes inside the bus?

      • Jahar

        I agree with you, but someone already made the same post, almost word for word. So thumbs down to you. Third time. If someone already said it, don’t you feel like a parrot?

    • ric

      I agree, Peter. I have never heard of such a thing. I live in New York City and I am fairly certain this matter would have been swifty taken care of. Tops 30 minutes. Chinese Police in general seem like pathetic public servants.

      • ClausRasmussen

        Chinese police is Chinese. This may sound stupid but the reality that people often overlook is that they’re working in a Chinese society and like everyone else have to submit to culture and norms.

        Some (and maybe even the Chinese cops themselves) dream of gun toting US cops solving the issue swiftly with tasers, batons, and muscle but that is not possible without creating a huge shitstorm on the Chinese internet

        Just imagine the headline on ChinaSMACK: “Cops brutally beats up elderly couple over bus seat row” and then contemplate how it would affect the officers careers

        • Jahar

          Once, when I lived in Korea, a group of us were on the subway and some drunk old guy was yelling at us about how it was his country. The guys with me didn’t care too much, but the girls started getting uncomfortable. At the next stop, half a dozen or so Korean men formed semi-circle around him and “walked” him off. It was awesome.

          • Boris

            I usually got the friendly drunk old men, being a bit too friendly.

      • mr.wiener

        Pray you never get on the wrong side of the Chenguan.

      • NicolasBourbaki

        Yeah but they probably would have beat someone, taken someone to jail or shot someone in order to resolve it.

      • Ken Morgan

        As I said in another post, while it COULD be dealt with swiftly beating up old people looks REALLY bad for PR purposes.

  • Amused

    Ok, I understand that there are no real police in China, but no one walked off the bus and kicked their scrawny asses out of the road?

    • B*tches, Leave

      Have you ever lived here? Most of the population is scared and uncertain, hence therefore is craven. And now they have this awesome excuse “if we help/interfere, we will get charged”, so of course nobody kicked them off the way (what they obviously deserve … in any civilized country would they have done it like that + the police would pat you on the back and take those idiots in).

      • Amused

        Yeah, for about 6 years now unfortunately. The lack of normal human responses here still mystifies me sometimes tho.

    • Ken Morgan

      Because the world over violence or ‘action’ against the one which appears weaker is frowned upon. As said in another post in the UK a few years ago there were OAP pick pockets. A number of them were caught and the victim asked for it back sternly. The crowd turned on the victim.

      Same thing in London woman gets a taxi doesn’t pay, he rightfully restrains her the crowd turns on him.

      USA a woman walks into a shop holding a baby, she fills her bags and walks out. The shop keeper tries to stop her quite rightfully. The crowd sees him trying to stop her leave, as a result several men rush to her rescue and punch him repeatedly.

  • Markus P

    He stood in front of a bus for two hours… yet, can’t stand on the bus for 10-20 minutes?

    • Jahar

      I agree with you, but someone already made the same post, almost word for word. So thumbs down to you.

      • Markus P

        Ha, really, i didn’t read it, great men think alike i guess.

  • Alex

    Have you seen when the empty subways open the doors at xizhimen? Holy shit, I enjoy it every single time. Elbowing, running, pushing. It’s incredible.

    • ptptp

      Don’t try to get a seat on the 7 train to Flushing on the NYC subway. Little old Chinese women will throw you to the floor to get a seat.

  • JayJay

    Elderly behaves like a child… nothing new…

  • firebert5

    So, beggars CAN be choosers…

  • CIA

    Chinese really love their Bus seats don’t they?
    The solution is simply to create more buses or longer buses or have a train system.

    • mr.wiener

      In other news apparently people in famine stricken areas need to eat more food.

      • CIA

        Was being a smart ass part of your plan?

        • mr.wiener

          Don’t judge me bro…I was born this way!
          I merely think that you are ignoring the fact that China’s inferstructure is struggling to keep up with the vastness of its population.

          • CIA
          • mr.wiener

            Hmm …but your link was about punching pussy, perhaps suggesting the opposite of your suggestion.
            The world is a woderful place, I wouldn’t live anywhere else.

          • David

            They did that already, twice. They were called the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.

          • CIA

            Well they need another one

          • David

            Well, unfortunately, they may get one in another 20 years.

    • Ken Morgan

      No seriously DON’T introduce longer buses. We have them in the UK double length bendy buses, Germans have triple length buses.

      On a route with turns a single bus can block all 4 directions of a + junction.

      Even on long straight roads they can block multiple side roads the fact that are super long also means they are hard to pull off from the kerb. They also kill quite a lot of cyclists as the driver cannot see back so far.

  • don mario

    i dont see whats up with all these bus storys lately. its pretty fucking simple

    make priority seats for elderly, disabled or pregnant women- as is the standard all over the wolrd. put a sign up about it and another sign saying that any asshole who won’t give their seat up for who the seat is designed for will be fined. if people still dont move…enforce the fine. problem solved. i know this dude in the story was apparently in the wrong but the point is if there was actually a system like this in place that was enforced there wouldn’t be any situations like this. it works everywhere else in the world why does china still need to be behind on such a simple thing? i am getting sick of these articles.

    • Jahar

      A seat was offered.

      • don mario

        i pointed out this guy was apparently in the wrong. the point i was making that these storys are becoming very common and it would be extremely easy to fix.

    • David

      You have ‘stood in line’ in China right? lol

      • don mario

        i know how it is and the general selfish attitude is reflected in the comments on most of these storys. it would be very simple to fix it though.

    • KamikaziPilot

      Thing is, even with signs saying the seats should be reserved for the elderly/disabled, you will then likely have arguments as to what exactly constitutes elderly/disabled. What is elderly? 50, 60, 100? Then you’ll probably have people pretending to limp to be disabled to get a seat. You see where this is going? Hard to regulate morality. But I guess priority seats would be a starting point. But I tell you even in the states a lot of people don’t even pay attention to those priority seats as when I used to catch the bus regularly I’d see all kinds of people sitting there and sometimes they wouldn’t give up their seat.

      • don mario

        nah, in taiwan the subway and buses are completely orderly. the roads are insane, and they have food scandals and safety issues like china so its not a case of them being a harmonious society that china isn’t. its just the rules have been put in place and they have been enforced. when things are like that people will soon learn the rules and the public will uphold them and nobody will even be tempted to break them. currently the rules are so slack that most people think its ok to sit in them and then side with the young people who are actually breaking the rules when the old people get ticked off about it.

        • KamikaziPilot

          I guess you’re right, while having rules/guidelines wouldn’t solve all the problems, it would at least provide some guidance to those who seemingly have no clue. Now if they could just get people to stand in orderly lines.

          • Kai

            Heh, it’s happening, albeit slowly. I’m in Shanghai and there’s a lot more public line discipline these days than when I first got here. What’s most satisfying is seeing more and more Chinese people objecting to and putting those who disregard lines in their place, especially if they’re the unsophisticated types who clearly don’t even bother to observe the situation before walking to the front of the line, completely disregarding everyone else.

            Everytime that happens, a rainbow unicorn kitten pops into existence in my cold, black heart. It’s one of my petty delights.

          • Jahar

            I was in Shanghai a few months ago visiting a friend, and we were on the other side of the river looking at the tall buildings. We were walking on a narrow, fenced in sidewalk, just wide enough for the 2 of us to walk abreast. There were two Chinese girls ahead of us, also walking abreast. Of course we were walking faster than them, but as we started to get closer, one of the girls looked back, saw us, and switched to single file. I couldn’t believe it. Made me think there is still hope.

          • Kai

            LoL, yeah, people who walk abreast chatting with each other oblivious to how they’re holding people up behind them annoy me too. I feel stupid trying to find an opening to squeeze through. I was also happy when the metro slapped signs everywhere for people standing on escalators to stand on one side so others could pass on the left. Over time, more and more people are observing it and picking up the habit, even on esclators without those signs.

            Things are getting better, but I still catch myself wishing they already were. I try to be understanding.

          • Teacher in China

            Oh god, Chinese girl walking……even tortoises get annoyed trying to pass them on sidewalks….

          • Teacher in China

            I’ll never forget the build-up to the Olympics in Beijing. I was living in a suburb at the time and had to take a bus to arrive in the Jianwai SOHO area. It was the last stop for this particular bus before it looped around and returned to the suburb. And man, the pushing and shoving that used to go on – disembarking passengers barely had the time to get off the bus before people were pushing them out of the way to get on.

            And then, one day, after several years of repeatedly seeing this, the bus pulls up to everyone standing in an orderly line and getting on very mild-manneredly, My jaw almost literally hit the floor. It remains one of the most surreal experiences in my life.

          • Kai

            I think Beijing has it particularly bad because of the all the migrant workers and poor living on the cheaper outskirts having to commute into the city.

            A few years ago, I think the Chinese media ran a string of stories about how bad the overcrowding was on these public bus lines that served the outskirts, with huge lines and people rushing each bus as they came, every man for themselves, trying to get on so they can get to work on time.

            Not sure about the abrupt change in behavior your saw though. I’ve never really seen such stark black and white overnight changes in China (or I guess anywhere) unless I’m revisiting something after a long time and wasn’t there to witness the changes in between. Shrug.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Good to hear, I hope you’re one of those that speaks up when you witness line cutting too, gotta give them a piece of your mind.

          • Kai

            Yes, especially when they are getting between me and my double-cheeseburger! *FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*

  • jz

    so this old guy was not able to stand in a short bus ride but was able to stand for 2 HOURS on the road to cause a scene? Logic people….

    • Jahar

      4th time someone posted this. Cant you just vote them up?

  • Irvin

    Ironic isn’t it? The argument derive from needing to sit and he ends up standing for 2 hours of his own violation.

    There’s a cantonese saying that I love ”咖车你噶?“ which can be roughly translate to: “is this your car?”. I maintain that whoever can’t stand in a public transportation should get a taxi.

  • Jahar

    I was hoping to make it past the comment section without seeing someone say something about bad people becoming old. Time to retire that one.

  • If I May

    This is so insane on so many levels, so mainland China, that I won’t even bother to share my thoughts on this particular Onion-worthy incident. Chinese cities should consider creating bus routes exclusively for Cultural Revolution fossils, or at least invest in more handcuffs and/or better “negotiation” training for cops. Freakin’ stupid…

  • Gord

    Ridiculous idea, but not one China won’t necessarily go for, the way they like to spend money on silly stuff.

    Buses for elderly only.

  • LuoyangLaowai

    Why didnt the police just physically move him out of the way so the bus and passengers can go on?? what is there to mediate about?

  • Teacher in China

    In that one regard, China has a looooooooong way to go…. it would be more comical if it wasn’t just so absolutely ignorant and selfish. I’ve seen people get hurt in those mad rushes.

  • Willbur San

    Cries about a seat, instead stands infront of bus for 2 hours. Logic.

  • A long way from home

    So to summarize. He was offered a seat but refused it. He was then annoyed noone else offered a seat for him? Wanting a better seat on a public bus is pretty ridiculous anyway, but let’s just assume it isn’t for argument’s sake. Now, when you refuse one, do you really expect everyone to stand up so you can pick one you like? Just go near the row where you would like to sit and use your words. And after someone has gotten up, thank them. Don’t just sit down and ignore the person who just got up as if it’s nothing. It really is an entitlement issue. And then to create a traffic jam in your city and screw over everyone, what is that? Can’t wait for the already selfish one-child generation to grow old, how obnoxious are those elderly going to be?

  • Hubert

    would taking out all the seats in the bus solve the problem? I’ve seen those kind of busses at airports. you could get more people in the bus as well.

  • Kai

    And lots of people cite “aggregate experience” for their prejudices against whites or blacks. Still doesn’t make their prejudices no longer “prejudices”.

    People like whuddyasack blame their anti-white racism as a product of having suffered anti-Chinese racism from white people. Is his racism suddenly justified? No, it isn’t.

    If you want to call a duck a duck, then prejudice is prejudice, regardless of what or who you blame it on. You are ultimately responsible for what you output.

  • Kai

    LoL, you joker.

  • SongYii

    Peace forces to Africa…. there’s a worthy objective!

    France does have a strong reputation for their special forces though. Thumbs up!

  • SongYii

    You are not Confucius.

  • sdfqef

    The one time I wish a column of tanks would run over him.

  • lonetrey / Dan

    I would’ve grabbed him and just (gently) thrown him aside. Or pushed him aside. Move him bodily out of the way. And then proceed to run to catch up with the bus.

    Why did no one do that??

    • SongYii

      Because the guy will fall down intentionally and claim you injured him, and take all your money. Or, it is reasonable to expect that to happen.

  • Tim Ngim

    “many of the students on the bus insisted on staying until the mediation was over before leaving, to testify on behalf of the driver, feeling he had been “wronged”.”

    For this, thumbs up for the student. Justice.

    Being old doesn’t mean the world must bow to you.

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