Indonesian Massacre of Ethnic Chinese Documentary, Reactions

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From NetEase:

Documentary of Indonesian Massacre of Ethnic Chinese Nominated for Oscar: Possibly 300,000 Chinese Killed

People’s Daily Online January 18th report: From multiple overseas Chinese media reports, a documentary about the massacre of a large number of ethnic Chinese during the era of former Indonesian president and military strongman Suharto has been nominated for the 86th Academy Awards [“Oscars”]. This documentary titled The Act of Killing [Chinese title translates literally to “I Am A Murdering Devil”] probes deeply into Indonesia‘s “930 Incident” [30 September Movement] where a large number of Chinese were murdered, once more triggering reflection upon this dark period in Indonesian history.

The “Thirtieth of September Movement” happened during the Indonesian military coup of 1965. Suharto, then the army’s strategic reserve commander, instigated an anti-communist purge across the country, in which large numbers of communist party members were killed, and many Chinese were executed as communist members. Analysis by academics put the death toll of the 30 September Movement at about 500,000 people, with at least 300,000 ethic Chinese being killed during the 30 September Movement.

American director Joshua Oppenheimer spent six years visiting and interviewing numerous death squads members about how they killed tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese at the time before finishing the documentary The Act of Killing. This film uses retrospective and the personal testimony of those who participated in the acts of slaughter to lead audiences in revisiting the historical tragedy. Death squad leader Anwar describes in the film his favorite ways of killing people, such as strangling people to death with wire to avoid spilling too much blood, as well as how he had celebrated by singing and dancing after killing people.

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After Oppenheimer learned that [the film was] nominated for an Oscar, he made a statement saying that out of consideration for their safety, all of his fellow filmmakers would remain anonymous, and hopes that the documentary’s nomination will encourage even more Indonesians to demand that their national leaders take responsibility. Survivor Astaman Hasibuan expressed during an interview with the media that even if the international media pays attention to this documentary, if the Indonesian government is unwilling to acknowledge [the events as human rights violations], the release of the film will make no difference.

Indonesian Human Rights Commission member Roichatul Aswidah said during the Suharto administration, there had been a film made praising the “930” mass killings, that generations of Indonesian people have been brainwashed, that The Act of Killing can counter that erroneous thinking, and help them learn from the mistakes.

(Original title: Documentary of Indonesian Massacre of Ethnic Chinese Nominated for Oscar: At Least 300,000 Chinese Killed At The Time)

Documentary: The Act of Killing

Trailer on YouTube:

Full Documentary with Chinese Subtitles on Sohu:

Comments from NetEase:

网易辽宁省营口市手机网友 ip:119.115.*.*:

The films nominated for Oscars always involve political messages. Leaving out this film, don’t don’t you think Argo was also like this? Also, without mentioning political incidents, do you think Chinese people in China are friendly towards other Chinese people? Self-deception can be found everywhere, and it is not a problem of national power, but of the collective loss of faith and the decline of people’s identification with our motherland that is the biggest problem.

网易浙江省温州市手机网友 ip:124.160.*.*:

Instead of Chinese making the film ourselves, we let an American do it.

网易吉林省松原市手机网友 ip:175.30.*.*:

Those are just overseas ethnic Chinese, not Chinese citizens, and thus they were already outside China’s scope of protection.

网易北京市手机网友 [hoverghost]: (responding to above)

During the War of Resistance Against Japan, they [overseas Chinese] did everything they could to donate money, with many people selling all their belongings, then returning to the country to join the war. They are our compatriots. They are Chinese descendants, who should not be excluded over something as small as nationality. Chinese people, unite together, we really shouldn’t sink to becoming slaves of [differentiating on the basis of geography]. Is mutual jealousy and hate that interesting? Let’s be more magnanimous, okay?

网易新加坡网友 [jeff994]: (responding to above)

Those people were still Chinese nationals during Republic of China era [1912-1949], then when the civil war happened, they were still overseas making a living. After the Civil War was over, the People’s Republic of China was founded. The mainland cast its lot with with the Soviet Union, and began continuously exporting communism abroad, with one of the channels being through overseas Chinese, exporting revolution. Later on, the mainland fell out with the Soviet Union. The mainland was very nervous, so it hastily requested an Indonesian-led non-aligned coalition. One of the conditions was noninterference in each others’ internal affairs. On this basis, the mainland abandoned all Chinese who had Chinese nationality in Southeast Asia, including the Chinese previously used to export revolution. What happened afterward was all a consequence of this mutual non-interference (Indonesia had the argument). Think, just how much responsibility is on the mainland?

网易江苏省苏州市太仓市手机网友(222.93.*.*): (responding to above)

These people were not willing to come back, so what can you do? As long as they were willing to give up their present identity [nationality], the ships were all arranged. In the end, only about 5,000 people were willing to come back and take refuge. On one hand, they had experienced such things so much before, and therefore treated it lightly [didn’t think it would be different from before]. On the other hand, they had long ago came to see themselves as having an Indonesian identity.

jeff994 [网易新加坡手机网友]: (responding to above)

Come out and take a look for yourself, and see what overseas Chinese say.

Comments from Sina:

手机用户[湖北武汉]:

At the time, before the massacre, our country was already ready to take the ethnic Chinese back to China, and at the same time the United States and Taiwan also promised to save the Chinese fleeing from Indonesia. Ultimately, the promise by the United States and Taiwan ended up being empty words, and only the few taken in by the mainland narrowly escaped the tragedy. When they’re all Chinese descendents, would the country not care about them? So [those that stayed and died] was only because it was their choice. They chose to place their trust in the wrong thing and ultimately hurt themselves. Don’t always say how our country is this or that [negatives], because when you really encounter a crisis, the one you can rely on is still your motherland.

清泉凉水[广西南宁]:

The issue of nationality is not important. A patriotic overseas Chinese who can’t speak a single phrase of Chinese is still much more lovable than a Chinese traitor who can speak proper putonghua [Mandarin]!

八哥牙露1658744310[广西百色]:

The 1999 massacre of ethnic Chinese was also hair-raising, but very few people domestically knew about it, and why is that? Why aren’t the Chinese people allowed to know this demon (Indonesia)?

绿林爷们儿[河北秦皇岛]:

It’s because the Chinese government does not recognize dual nationality, so in the massacre of ethnic Chinese last time, the Chinese government was unable to do anything more to help.

Note from Fauna: This news was also widely discussed on Sina Weibo the past few days, with many of the most-discussed microblog posts including extremely graphic images of beheaded, raped, and mutilated ethnic Chinese victims (click with discretion) from the more recent Indonesian anti-Chinese violence in 1998.

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  • Zappa Frank

    i’ve clicked on the link in the bottom and now i feel dirty for being human…

    • bprichard

      Yup, not clicking that link. No way. Not going to happen.

    • Neobooper

      Those images are not all from the same incident, some of them if from Military treatment of East Timorese, Ethnic riot in Kalimantan/Borneo where the Dayak’s are killing the Maduras, some of them are from religion clash between Moslems and Christians. Only small amount actually from the 1998 riot. My grandfather went thru 3 times of that hell, once in the 60’s, 70’s and 90’s. It’s the Indonesian government way of diverting attention, just like China government doing it with Japanese and Japan Govenrment doing it using the Chinese, in this case they are doing it to us, Chinese Indonesian Ethnic.

      For Chinese Indonesian that say they forgive and bla bla bla, most likely they are not in the country at the time that it happened. I wasn’t either, but I’ve experienced the hate, the stare since I was a little kid, All I can say it’s not a very nice experience for me growing up in Indonesia. We are victim of racism, we are now hold most important economy points in South East Asia and become very wealthy, but you know what…. it don’t mean jackshit, because the whole lot of us just stay quite, sit there and do nothing about it. Things need to change. By bringing awareness, we can prevent it from happening again.

      Indonesian Native are nice people,but for the lack of better word, just uneducated and stupid people no matter how nice they are, can be easily manipulated. Indonesia Government know this and use this. Those days are almost over, people are getting smarter.

      All of those incident usually always ignited by the certain part of government, its political. Soeharto’s coup also supported by US Govt and arranged by CIA so Indonesia do not fall into communism during cold war.

      One last rant, “Hey Chinese from China, please be courteous and polite to Indonesian people when you are there. If you does something wrong and ignite a riot, guess who gonna be blame? They see all of us as the same… Chinese” (not saying out of spite, happened in my city)

  • ScottLoar

    Indonesia roils with pogroms against the Chinese, the latest in 1998 when Glodok burned, and the animus is resentment to Chinese success.

    The Dutch did the same in the Batavia of 1740, slaughtering more than 10,000 ethnic Chinese which numbers threatened Dutch trading interests. The Dutch at the time were not selective; they gleefully slaughtered and tortured the English, their Japanese allies, and local people in what is now Indonesia wherever and whenever their trade monopoly was threatened.

    For days a group of English and Japanese traders was kept naked in an open pit under the tropical sun, and at night the Dutch would pee on the blistered skin below. The Governor-General Jan Pieterszoon Coen under the VOC was particularly nasty; look to his official portrait.

    • moeimoei

      I believe it is also the Dutch who started the apartheid in South Africa, no?

      • Anjing

        No. That’d be the Afrikaaners. It’s a bit like saying the English are responsible for the Jim Crow laws because white Americans originally came from largely English stock.

        • Cauffiel

          Thats a poignant analogy.

        • David

          Good point.

      • ScottLoar

        As others said, apartheid was the work of Afrikaaners who ruled the country from the 40’s onwards, and were determined to remember the Boer War as well.

        The Dutch had no near monopoly on nastiness. Few now seem to know, but the Japanese POW camps in Sumatra and Java were attacked by Indonesians immediately after the WWII surrender and most of the internees slaughtered – man, woman and child. The group most responsible went on to further greatness under the leadership of a man called Sukarno, lauded as the father of modern Indonesia.

        • moeimoei

          Thanks for sharing, I guess Indonesians do seem to have somewhat interesting values…

          • ScottLoar

            Yes. but I see no superior culture, no 優秀的民族, and have learned that people everywhere will generally disappoint, and the notion some have of placid, peaceful, respectful Southeast Asians like Thais (“suwadee”) and Malays and others is way, way off the mark. During WWII Malays and Indians cheerfully co-operated with the Japanese to hunt down and kill Westerners and Chinese; Thais on deep-sea fishing boats would leap naked among the boat people they encountered to rape and kill at will; Vietnamese soldiers would torture and rape their own countryside, and Cambodia under Pol Pot lost at least one of every four people to torture and execution, the only country I’ve ever visited which made me feel strangely ill at ease even now.

          • sfphoto1

            That’s the Western Myth of the Noble Savage, “placid, peaceful, respectful Southeast Asians”. If not for their Asian religions which came from Mainland Asia, most of them would qualify as primitive “savages”.

            The attitudes of Mainland Chinese towards Southeast Asians including those of Chinese descent stems from the Middle Kingdom complex, the idea that China was the one and only CIVILIZED nation-state in this part of the world. It’s the same attitude that guides China’s relations with East Asian countries such as Korea, the idea that only countries adopting 中化 could become CIVILIZED and that outside of that CIVILIZED realm 天下 are the barbarian world.

          • ScottLoar

            I don’t find Angkor Wat the creation of primitive savages. I don’t find Indonesian aesthetics primitive, nor Thai courtesy savage, nor Malay social interaction primitive or savage.

            My comment was as contrary to popular experience, and to show that among all peoples there is a dark side of history and experience, and most peoples in honesty and self-reflection well know their darker sides.

          • sfphoto1

            But it was the ASIAN religions of Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam that CIVILIZED Southeast Asian Societies as reflected in their temples, monasteries, architecture, arts, etc.

            Ironically, the communist takeover of the mainland actually toned down this “Middle Kingdom” complex as Mao systematically destroyed the feudalism of the “Old Society.” However, East Asian societies based on Confucianism such as China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and even Singapore still have this “superiority” complex over their Southeast Asian neighbors — to this day. Just go to any East Asian city such as HK, Seoul, Tokyo, Taipei and see how Southeast Asians and Westerners are treated differently by the East Asian locals. Even in supposedly “Westernized” HK or Singapore, Southeast Asians are treated like servants while White Westerners are treated like…White Westerners. There’s even a case of an Indonesian maid being tortured in HK.

          • Islam is a Western religion from the perspective of comparative religious studies. As a monotheistic, Abrahamic faith that requires members to join and excludes outsiders it is much more like Christianity and Judaism than Buddhism and Hinduism, both of which are actually the antithesis of Islam in the Muslim view.

            Look at the historical relationship of Islam with Asian religions, cf. India & Pakistan or Buddhism in Afghanistan.

          • sfphoto1

            I think you mean “Islam is a Semitic religion”, just like Judaism and Christianity. But my point is that the High Culture of Southeast Asia were based on these three religions: Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam.

          • No, I mean it is a Western religion if there is to be any meaningful distinction drawn between “Western” and “Eastern” religions. Geography is only one factor.

            By “Semitic,” do you mean Abrahamic? Coptic Greek is not a Semitic language.

            The scholar Russell Kirkland categorizes Islam as a Western religion because it shares most of its key features with the other Abrahamic faiths. If Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and Confucianism have some things in common, it is that none of them posit the existence of a single, all powerful god; none of them require “conversion” to take part in religious life; and none of them are mutually exclusive. One can be thoroughly Buddhist and thoroughly Taoist at the same time without becoming a nun, and without either camp saying, “No, you’re not one of us.”

            Islam requires conversion, and one can hardly be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time, because both faiths would object. Islam must have provided something spiritual that was lacking in the traditions in place in Asia before it arrived, such as relative egalitarianism compared to the Indian caste system.

          • sfphoto1

            Yes, Abrahamic although the word “Semite” supposedly came from “Ishmael”, the bastard son of Abraham. All three “Abrahamic” religions are monotheistic in nature which differentiates them from the “Eastern” religions which are polytheistic in nature. However, in this part of the world (East Asia), “Western” religions refer to Roman Catholicism or Protestant Christianity introduced to Asia at the onset of Western Colonialism. That’s why I used “Asian” religions to distinguish them from “Western” religions which took root in a few countries in Southeast Asia such as the Philippines and East Timor while the rest maintained their original “Asian” religions, namely, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam.

          • I’m not saying you are wrong; I’m objecting to the casual grouping of Islam with other religions that have deep roots in the geographical region we call “Asia,” as Islam has long been a kind of “alternative” religion in India and in the Indian cultural sphere, considering the differences in customs and the relative egalitarianism of Islam versus the rigid caste system. Cf. Nicholas Ostler in “Empires of the Word” describes how different the Muslim Mughal rulers of India were from their predecessors, in their religion, dress, customs, etc.

            In China, too, Islam was and is still seen as a “foreign” religion that came from the west, unlike Buddhism, even though Buddhism came from the “west” of China and was quite novel to the Chinese at its inception.

          • sfphoto1

            Actually, both Islam and Buddhism are not indigenous to China and were persecuted by Chinese authorities at various times in Chinese history. The only reason why Buddhism is seen today as “Chinese” is because the Han Chinese adopted Mahayana Buddhism which they then spread to other parts of East Asia such as Vietnam, Korea, Japan and later to Singapore, Malaysia and the Overseas Chinese communities of Southeast Asia. In contrast, it was the Indians who spread both Hinduism and Theravada Buddhism to Southeast Asia. Here’s a brief presentation on how HInduism, Islam and Buddhism influenced Southeast Asia:

            http://www.niu.edu/cseas/outreach/pdfs/origins_religion.pdf

          • Right, thanks for the background and slides.

            Ge Zhaoguang and other scholars maintain that Buddhism, though often resisted by officials in the early centuries, offered something to the Chinese that their traditions were lacking, namely a clear concept of life after death and responsibility for one’s actions. So perhaps like Christianity in the Roman empire, the faith became so widespread that there was no longer any point in persecuting its followers. Islam was a comparative late-comer was never largely embraced by the Chinese.

            Again, I’m not talking about geography or something being “indigenous” or not, because that’s often a disingenuous concept tied to nationality. I’m asking you guys, if we are going to compare “Eastern” and “Western” religions, why should we consider Islam an “Eastern religion”? Looking at the faith itself, it is clearly Western.

          • Edward_Crowley

            As a monotheistic, Abrahamic faith that requires members to join and
            excludes outsiders it is much more like Christianity and Judaism

            The main difference being, followers of the latter two faiths generally tend not to support killing women for having boyfriends, or burning the heathen in rubber tyres, through failing to take a joke printed in a newspaper.

          • sfphoto1

            Islam does not have a monopoly on promoting hate and violence against non-believers. From the Papal Crusades to the Spanish “La Conquista”, Christianity has started more wars that killed far more people than Islam ever did.

          • Philip_Seymour_Hoffman

            But modern day acts of terror?

          • sfphoto1

            You mean the Al-Qaeda that was created by the CIA as a rebel group in Pakistan to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the late 1980s?

          • Philip_Seymour_Hoffman

            Or independent terrorists loosely affiliated with al qaeda, yes.

          • sfphoto1

            So that implicates the CIA for creating front-groups like the Al-Qaeda to take the blame for committing terrorist acts such as the 9/11 bombing of the WTC in New York. And then using that 9/11 event to launch the War of Terror against Islam. Is this the Zionist version of the Crusades 2.0?

          • Philip_Seymour_Hoffman

            So do you believe mossad had any part in 9/11? Regardless of whether these muslim maniacs were a part of al qaeda or not, slitting the throats of air crew is murder. Yes, I find it strange the bush administration let the bin ladens, but imagine the potential reprisals? Ever heard of the PIRA, just because a terrorist organization winds down, offshoots and lone wolves will still exist, using their cause to justify their twisted actions. Do you believe the london underground bombing was carried out by british secret services? or the madrid bombings by spanish agents….?

          • ScottLoar

            There’s even a case in Hong Kong of a sign, in English, posted in the elevator of a condominium:

            No Dogs or Maids Allowed

            Yep, posted by Hong Kong Chinese for the benefit of their Filipina maids.

            No, it is a myth that Westerners are treated better than locals. Westerners are denied entrance in many clubs and bars in Japan, do not find welcome in Chinese KTV and clubs in mainland China, and in Malaysia I am routinely challenged by the public bus driver to state where I’m going and belligerently told the fare while Malays, Indians, Chinese, mainland Chinese, Bangladeshis, Indonesians, Nepalese, Thais – anyone but a white face is let on the bus and puts in the fare without a glance. You suppose my face just looks dumb and the public bus drivers are trying to help me along?

            Only in Asia am I shown something and then the seller quickly tells me “Oh, this is real (silk, or gold, or silver, or wood or whatnot), and cheaper than in your country”, as if my experience of life hasn’t prepared me for such a goody. And its just not only adults, teenagers deprecatingly treat me the same way. Yeah, I’m supposed to be soundly impressed that Asians are just s-o-o-o-o-o clever and my assumed wealth came about because – well, ya’ know I’m American (all Westerners are assumed to be Americans or English) and our lives are so easy that we all have money and no sense.

          • linette lee

            hahaha….lol You are lucky they didn’t try to sell your kidneys,

            No Dogs or Maids allowed. Wow. I am sure they will get some lawsuit.

          • ScottLoar

            Filipinos winning a lawsuit against discrimination in modern Hong Kong, when it is commonly believed that the Philippines government purposely shot up a busload of Hong Kong tourists for a hostage rescue? Not likely.

          • sfphoto1

            Malaysia is Southeast Asian; I’m referring to East Asian Societies which can be quite xenophobic, However, White Westerners are still treated as belonging to the apex of a strict racial hierarchy. Between you and let’s say an Indonesian working in HK, Taipei, Seoul or Tokyo, you would definitely have a higher “social” status than the Southeast Asian.

          • Jobjed

            Mate, you’re a few centuries late. No sane Chinese holds these kinds of values anymore. Many would probably say it as a tongue-in-cheek but no one really believes it just as no one believes in the “mandate of heaven” anymore.

          • plorf

            I disagree, ask a middle-class Chinese what they think about Thailand and Thais and it’s basically “nice but lazy and culturally inferiour people”.

          • Chujinsa Chu

            Nice = OK. Mostly yes.

            Lazy = Nope. they are not lazy or hardworking. Same as Thai who have Chinese ancestors in Thailand: some are really lazy, some not.

            Culturally inferior people = Nope. Actually most Thai with Chinese ancestors hardly practice any more pure Chinese culture at all. Why? They have perfectly blend with Thai people and culture. For example, if you see a Thai with Chinese ancestors who can speak Chinese. I’m pretty sure 80 percent he/she learn it for business purpose. Why? Very few Chinese-Thai speak Chinese in their family anymore. A sociology study about Chinese-Thai conclude this phenomenon that because the locals have less to no conflict with Chinese immigrant since the beginning, they don’t have preserve their Chinese culture to distinguish themselves from others in order to guard against any possible danger.

            BTW. I am what you said: middle-class Thai who have Chinese ancestors, and have tons of Thai’s and Thai with Chinese ancestor’s friends. However we are all Thai.

            Judging from your frequently visited communities, I guess you are Chinese. One thing that we don’t understand and, to tell you the truth- annoy, is that why Chinese try to drag Thai who have Chinese ancestors to be one of yours. Maybe to make yourself feel superior or to make them feel close or whatever reasons. However, it works the opposite. In fact many Thai with Chinese ancestor even hate Mainland Chinese who try to do this. If you need prove for that, and in case I stumbled upon this discussion again in the future, I can give you tons of what they said about how they feel. (However they were in Thai, so you have to use google translate)

            Don’t get us wrong. We don’t hate Chinese, not that we fond them. You are always welcome to be friend with us, but please don’t bother in our issues. You are just our cousins. Not our family.

          • sfphoto1

            “no one believes in the ‘mandate of heaven’ anymore”

            Oh, really. Then why do you think was Xi Jinping CHOSEN to lead China?

            Because he was the son of a CCP leader who was GROOMED from childhood to be a member of China’s ruling elite.

  • nqk123

    WWW1 then 2 both were hell for many. genocides happen all around the globe. even now genocide still happen in a number of nations. we human are fking beast. life go on

  • Biao MA

    nothing is more evil than human, I mean humanity can do things that beyond our imagination, especially when they get crazy. he is gonna rot in the hell.

    • nqk123

      we are not just evil, we are a bunch of hypocrites too

      • Biao MA

        that’s true, we all have the mask of hypocrite. some just fully displayed. some know how to conceal it.

        The world is filled with people who do ugly things. why do they act this way. I guess we do for ourselves.

        • Gordon Gogodancer

          what’s going on here?

          • Biao MA

            oh,nothing ,just complain. ignore it .haha

    • Irvin

      If you think it’s bad now just wait a few more years for ww3.

      • Biao MA

        why you think that way. it would be better without any war. sounds childish. I don’t know what is going to happen, but what we can do today is to take lessons from what has already happened.

  • Guest

    nothing is more evil than human, I mean humanity can do things that beyond our imaginations especially when they get crazy. he is gonna rot in the hell.

  • moeimoei

    I see a lot comments saying that humans are dirty/evil/crazy, well…that’s us being part of the animal kingdom; it’s human nature, or better yet, animal nature….selfish and violent are probably part of the basic instincts…not sure if “civilization” can ever erase those instincts/natures…

    • ESL Ninja

      I don’t think animals massacre each other over ideologies.

      • Cauffiel

        Ideology is just another form of territory, which all animals fight for (and plants for that matter).

      • David

        Very true, but they do kill the young and crippled for food. If I were to go out and club a 10 year old or a blind man for his pocket change so I could buy a burger, I would still be considered evil (let alone what I would be thought of if I ate them). Just a perspective. But it is true that this massacre was a classical example of selfish evil..

        • Zappa Frank

          they do not kill the young and crippled just for food, animals don’t care about young or old, sane or crippled, but just about strong or weak.. if you have a cat you can see that it can kill birds, rabbits and so on (especially puppies) even without any need to eat.. lions kill puppies of other lions, and the same goes for many species..

          • mr.wiener

            Jane Goodall observed 3 chimps [Pom, Passion and Pree I think] Who systematically kidnapped and ate the babies of other chimps, usually higher ranking females.

          • Middle_Kingdum

            Damn chimps.

          • Irvin

            chimps: don’t blame me, blame the babies for being so delicious.

    • Cauffiel

      Actually, humans invented evil. Animals have no concept of it. No lions or flamingoes are sitting at home thinking “wow, we did some evil shit today. amirite?”

      • moeimoei

        You are right, b/c they are only driven by their instinct, they don’t really describe what they do as “evil” or “righteous”, they just do it b/c they need to maintain their place in the wild, to survive, to scare off competitors and to fight for resources…

      • KamikaziPilot

        Agreed, basically the more intelligent a life form is the more that intelligence can be used for good and evil purposes. This applies to humans of varying intelligence too. However, I vaguely remember that I read somewhere that dolphins (among the smartest animals) were observed to exhibit certain types of what can be described as “evil” behavior, such as bullying and even killing one of their own for reasons other than survival. I guess humans may be the only animals with a conscience though.

        • Cauffiel

          At least humans tend not to eat their own babies….. or any human babies for that matter. But we do eat eggs. And roe. And veal. Do you eat veal, KPilot? Oh, you are just all kinds of evil. :-D

          • Middle_Kingdum

            I enjoy eating the eggs of veal.

          • Irvin

            I enjoy eating eggs of beef and pork.

          • Cauffiel

            You inhuman bastard hell spawn.

          • KamikaziPilot

            I don’t eat veal, I used to when I was a kid and it taste good but ever since I found out how they get that meat so soft and tender I haven’t touched veal. Basically if the animal is put through unnecessary suffering I won’t eat it. Even if I liked the taste, I wouldn’t eat Fois gras or shark fin either. Although I realize animals must die for us to eat them, i believe it isn’t much different than a wild animal hunting prey to eat. It’s part of nature but I won’t make an animal suffer needlessly so I can eat it.

          • David

            Fair enough and I respect a guy who sticks to his principals. I just figure being eaten alive (as most animals are not actually killed, just disabled when the carnivore begins to feast) is much more painful than how most animals die in captivity. That being said, I don’t think unnecessary cruelty needs to be used for the amusement of those processing the meat.

          • KamikaziPilot

            I never really thought about comparing being eaten alive in the wild to being killed by humans but I’d say you’re absolutely right in that it would generally be much more painful to be killed by wild predators than in a slaughterhouse. I meant that humans kill animals to eat just like in nature where animals hunt other animals for food. It’s just part of nature. I didn’t really mean to compare their suffering when they are killed. If you can kill an animal with less pain, there’s no need to make an animal suffer for a supposedly better tasting meal (ex. veal, fois gras).

            I recently say a video showing wild African dogs (about 20 or 30) eating a warthog, talk about vicious, they looked like a bunch of land piranhas. Pretty brutal, they were literally eating the warthog alive. Thank goodness it only lasted about 30 seconds before the warthog went silent. Not to mention lions killing their prey over a long time. After you watch these kinds of videos, and realize all animals die, a slaughterhouse might not seem so bad.

        • Cauffiel

          Oh, and chimps have been observed committing all kind of atrocities toward each other….. rape, murder, systematic genocide. But I’m not sure if they have charities or Special Chimp Olympics or anything.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Oh yea forgot about chimps, they can be vicious.

            Wanna know the only animals that have a legal system to settle disputes?
            Kangaroos, they have kangaroo courts, hahaha. I’m so funny I crack myself up!!!

          • Cauffiel

            Kangaroo courts are rather intense, usually held by enthusiastic, energetic people. When its time to get started, they always hop to it!

    • Irvin

      We are only as civilize as our environment allows us to be. Put 2 man on a boat in the middle of the ocean and you can be sure one will be eatten by the other eventually.

      I blame us not for our nature but our lack of forsight to plan for an environment where we can stay civilize.

  • mr.wiener

    I’ve heard figures as high as a million people killed during these purges.

  • ESL Ninja

    Those pictures in the link are pretty disturbing.

  • Cauffiel

    Lights up. Roll camera. Queueing “Oh, but China has killed more of its own people than anybody!” comments, aaaand… ACTION!

    • Jahar

      You know, you are the one bringing it up.

      • Cauffiel

        Three upvotes and a comment? I thought the chinasmack community had a better sense of satire than this.

    • sfphoto1

      Another version being promoted by Western propagandists to demonize Mao and discredit the CCP is this:

      “Oh, but Mao killed his millions of his own people during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. Hitler killed only the Jews not his own people. So that means Mao is more evil than Hitler.”

      • Wodowsan

        The point is not who is more evil. The point is why would a government or individual of today support and idolize any mass murdering tyrant, Hitler, Stalin, or Mao.
        You whine about those that have humiliated the Chinese, yet you idolize and worship one that made China lose more face than anyone else in history. That is what is screwed up. Look at what the “Maoist” did in Cambodia. This is not anti-Chinese, it is anti-Maoist/Stalinist. The Party is not China. China is not the Party.

        • sfphoto1

          Try reading “Leviathan” by Thomas Hobbes whose political philosophy led to Rosseau’s “Social Contract Theory” of the State. You’re talking about morality; I am talking about the politics of Wars and Revolutions.

    • scanner

      if Indonesia had been any other people. I would have called this isolated incident but because Indonesian violence is specifically Sunni Muslim violence commited within the modern era and not ancient times. Inevitably they will make the same mistakes the arabs,chechens,afghans and somalis have made and be in the same conditions

  • moeimoei

    I kinda agree…

  • Probotector

    Basically, they’re claiming that because these were not Chinese people from the mainland that were killed, they can justify in their own way that their deaths no not somehow count as a loss of face to China.

    • Cauffiel

      How quickly they get thrown under the bus.

  • Southwestern European

    Dude, with all due respect, when you’ve got thousands of people in the streets beating your men, raping your women, beheading your children and parading their heads and posing for the cameras laughing out loud: this is not the case of one or two mad men, nor the exclusive problem of the government. This is a generalized case of aggressiveness a lack of respect from the Indonesians as a society towards your people. How can you still live amongst people who themselves, or their parents or brothers did this, and who do not even see the need for an apologize or the wrong on it? I mean it’s not one or two mad men, it’s the madness of an entire city! It’s like a kid being beaten up by 2 bullies in class, and 20 other kids watching. If I were that kid, I would hate to death those 2 bullies, but I would hate as well the rest of the class, I would hold them accountable for their passivity, and I would blame as well the school for not having done anything either. How can you feel comfortable with people who are capable of doing this at all, or who can tolerate their neighbors doing this to you? This is just WRONG!!!
    I can understand the hatred of a Jew towards Germany. Yet when the average Cohen goes there, he sees a Museum of the Holocaust right in the center of Berlin, and the Germans won’t miss an occasion to say sorry in the name of their nation and their forefathers who did this to Cohen’s, and they will probably engage in some sort of intelligent conversation to rationalize the whole process and get to the conclusion that they were wrong, nothing can be done to repair what was done, they are deeply sorry, and they will actively work to prevent this happening in the future. But can you say even 10% of that about your fellow Indonesians? How can you just even live there? This is collective madness. It’s like living amongst a society of psycho sadistic barbarians. I mean that happened in 1998, how about fucking starting to identify those monsters holding beheaded heads of children and smiling at the camera? Fucking do something about it. Get angry at them at least!
    I am very interested in your reply.

    • Random Person

      As an *Indonesian* Ethnic Chinese, I can assure you that we do not forget that incident, and we are cautious, lest it should happen again.

      And while what he said is true – the majority of us harbor no hatred for ‘native’ Indonesians in general – I, personally, hold no great love for them either (and I believe many others would agree with me). The thing is, “They did not know what they were doing.” The government in Suharto’s time often made us the scapegoat to evade the people’s wrath. The people were provoked to harm us. Getting angry at them is of no use, it just breaks this country even more, and we certainly don’t want that to happen – not when the people (at least the more intelligent ones) are starting to accept us as one of their own.

      And, they are still part of our beloved country. We may don’t like the government, we may don’t really like the majority of the people (they could easily be provoked, after all), but still. I guess this is what they call ‘nationalism’?

      That’s the entire point, really. Most of us (the ‘younger’ generations) have already considered Indonesia as our country. Mainland China not interfering back then cut whatever (emotional?) ties we had left. And we love our country.

      • Southwestern European

        This is not called nationalism, it is called STOCKHOLM’S SYNDROME. Go and emigrate to Canada or something similar in order to find a loving, accepting and rationally nationalistic society who stands for some values…
        Just because China refuses you and that apparent shithole called Indonesia is the only thing you have left, doesn’t mean you have to take it. Seriously, either Canada or any other decent Western country, or man yourselves up and create something of your own like Chinese Malays did in Singapore in order to avoid a foreesably similar fate.

      • sfphoto1

        China had no choice for otherwise Indonesia would condemn China for interfering which would have severe consequences for Chinese-Indonesians. This is also a byproduct of the enactment of the citizenship law of the PRC. If mainland-born Chinese emigrate today to foreign countries and acquire foreign passports, the PRC would treat them as legally foreigners, albeit of Chinese descent. If they are maltreated by their host countries, the PRC can’t do anything about it because they’ve already lost their Chinese nationality.

        Israel has a different policy towards the Jewish Diaspora called the Law of Return which allows Jews all over the world to settle in Israel and acquire Israel citizenship. Unless the PRC adopts such as policy, it would be difficult for China to help ethnic Chinese in Indonesia or elsewhere. Until then, it would be wise for Chinese-Indonesias to consider emigrating to other countries because their safety and security is more important than “nationalism” of the Third World kind.

  • linette lee

    I want to tell you folks something. The China Chinese do not really consider Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia the same thing as China Chinese. They are more like Indonesians with Chinese blood. Just like those Thai Chinese, Fino Chinese, Vietnam Chinese, and Malaysian Chinese. They all have Chinese blood but not exactly the same as China Chinese. This is the impression I am getting from the China Chinese. To China Chinese there are only two Chinese countries which is China andTaiwan. So don’t be surprised why China Chinese are not angry about this massacre of the Indo Chinese in Indonesia. I have an idea why they are not angry at Indonesia gov’t.

    • KamikaziPilot

      Yeah Linette I think we all know Chinese differentiate based on nationality and the only true Chinese are those from the mainland. Hell some even don’t consider HK Chinese to be true chinese. And of course there’s all that differentiating by province/region and such. They need to find someone to hate, other Chinese are the easiest targets, well that and Japan.

      • linette lee

        I know right. I heard the China Chinese hate Hong Kong and Taiwan Chinese. They call us all kind of bad names.

        • kooo

          bullshit!!! when u say that ur a hongkonger & think that hongkongers are special (by special,im saying that u are reluctant to admit that urs ancestors are actually cantonese and you are their offspring)and then u tell us that u speak on behave of all mainland chinese ? who are you then ? Do you read chinese news paper ? you just spit something out of nothing !!!

          • linette lee

            Hong Kong is a much more multicultural city compare to China. We are much more acceptable to people from different background. There are tons of HKers who are Thai, Vietnamese, Philippines, Indians, UK, Middle east,even the Chinese in Hong Kong are originally from different parts of China or Taiwan. AND never ever too many big problems with all of them. So why the recent mainland Chinese are such a big problem. Go look at what they do to our public hospitals, schools, subways, tourist attractions like Disney Land. Look at how some of them behave also in the public.

          • linette lee

            我讀中文報紙多過你吃飯.

          • ScottLoar

            罵得好!

        • kooo

          why don’t u share with us that how u hongkongers treat us mainland chinese and call us locusts ? And could u give us more examples for all kinds of bad names u hongkongers give us ? Tell u what ? Im a cantonese,and i look down upon some stupid hongkongers ,especially u,my lady !!! Think before crapping around ,my sincere advice !

          • Hugh G. Rection

            Sha bi

        • David

          Well, I think kooo has just given us a great example of this. I know I have been told by several Chinese in Wuxi that I should not go visiting in the south because they are bad bad men down there, “killing each other in the street like animals.” I would say regionalism is alive and well in China. Of course my mother is from Scotland and we have a long history of fighting each other there when we were not hating on the English. I know my mothers family, the Gunns, had a feud with the Keiths that started in the 15th century and was not settled until 1976. Talk about holding a grudge.

          • linette lee

            Holding grudges from 15th century to 1976. hahaha.lol That is a long time.

          • Hugh G. Rection

            That’s a Scot for you (I’m Scots-Irish). Probably ended when the last of the Keith clan was killed off.

        • KamikaziPilot

          If I was walking with you and someone called you a bad name I’d beat them to a pulp and sit on their face.

          • linette lee

            I love you. :)

          • KamikaziPilot

            You’re so cute :)

          • mr.wiener

            I just threw up inside my mouth and swallowed some of the vomit :P

          • KamikaziPilot

            Awwww man, don’t you love Linette too? I bet if she left you’d miss her.

        • Jobjed

          And I’m sure Taiwanese have no bad names for Mainlanders, of course not. *sarcasm*

          No, how about you stop being naive and recognise the fact that both parties across the Taiwan Strait are equally guilty in perpetuating unflattering remarks against each other.

        • dadada

          Beside calling bad names on the internet,did china chinese ever go up to your face publicly and call you hk dogs?

        • dadada

          well there had to be reason for ”china chinese” to react this way the hong kongese and taiwanese verbally bashes the mainlanders on internet and media on a regular basis

        • Cameron

          I thought mainland discriminate against Taiwanese because of the independence movement. Haven’t really heard any mainland Chinese discriminate against HK Chinese – except in driect response to instances of HK > mainland Chinese discrimination.

    • Cauffiel

      Seems non-Chinese care about it more.

    • Kai

      This is common to all native and diaspora populations. Irish people don’t consider Irish-Americans the same as Irish Irish either. It isn’t exactly remarkable. Besides, people associated and dissassociate on the basis of convenience. Hong Kongers will claim they’re Chinese when it suits them and stress they’re Hong Kongers when it doesn’t. There’s plenty of mutual resentment and prejudice between mainland Chinese and HK/TW Chinese, with lots of bad names being thrown around on each side.

      Next, actually, I’d say the vast majority of Chinese netizens are appalled by the massacre of Indonesian Chinese in Indonesia. Just click over to the original source and read more comments. Bing can’t translate them all. If you use Weibo, there were also lots of comments expressing shock and anger about what happened. There are accusations that the Chinese government didn’t make this known to its people. Whether that’s fair or not is also argued, as seen a bit above.

      • linette lee

        ” Irish people don’t consider Irish-Americans the same as Irish Irish either” YOu nailed it. That is exactly the same theory.

        The Chinese Hongkongers know that they are Chinese but they will tell you they are Hongkong Chinese, which is different than China Chinese. The same thing with Taiwan Chinese. They will tell you they are different than China Chinese.

        • Hugh G. Rection

          To clarify, add a hyphen: Hongkong-Chinese.

          • linette lee

            Or just HongKonger. Most of us just say HongKongers or HongKese or HongKongese.

          • Hugh G. Rection

            I mean, to clear up your post for those of us reading it. :-)

      • KamikaziPilot

        Basically I agree, but although I have no way of quantifying it, it does seem that Chinese people’s regionalism descends to a level of dislike even hatred that is on a higher level than seen elsewhere, especially in 1st world countries (not sure about other regions). I mean look how they feel about Guangdong peoples, is there anything comparable in first world countries? Sure there are rivalries between different regions in different countries (ex. Boston-NYC, LA-SF) but really nothing like China. Seems like Chinese people just need someone to hate. I’m not talking friendly rivalry, I’m talking borderline hatred.

        • Kai

          I see the discrimination and prejudice, and how widely held and very casually propagated they are, but generally it is not nearly close to reaching “borderline hatred”.level. Most people in China casually make fun of or hold stereotypes about Chinese from certain places but I don’t think it really reaches “hate” level, or near “hate” level. Plus, in the realm of stereotypes, if there’s money to be made, see just how fast these stereotypes are set aside. ;)

          The regionalism in the States are things like making fun of New Jersey, Florida, the South, the Midwest, etc. I think the US population is a bit better but it also depends on the education and demographic levels. You’ll see more ethnic/racial discrimination in the US than regionalism but in homogenous China, people from different places substitute for differences in race/ethnicity. I think human nature is just flawed in being predisposed to categorizing people to explain away experiences.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Well I agree about the money part of course and also your second paragraph especially about the part where people like to categorize others to explain differences. I don’t live in China nor do I speak Chinese so I’m sure you have more experience with these things than me but just based on what I’ve heard in person and elsewhere, it just seems to me the regionalism is much stronger in China than the US but then again that may be because China is much more homogeneous than the US, so regionalism takes the place of racism. Either that or insecurity with oneself causes such strong regionalism.

          • Kai

            Insecurity is almost always a reason for any sort of discrimination. Cheers.

  • wave rider? more like dick rider
    fucking pussy

  • Jahar

    A chinese what?

  • Rick in China

    Isn’t the title of the article a little bit misleading? I don’t know much about the incident, but from what I glean, the eradication was of communists rather than specifically *Chinese*, even if many Chinese were communists at the time. The difference may seem subtle, but framing it in a way that implies the hatred was for Chinese as an ethnicity as opposed to Communists as an ideology is deceptive. It seemed not so much genocidal as politicidal.

    • David

      While my knowledge of Indonesia is more 18th to early 20th century, I seem to recall this was certainly used as a way to kill communists but also to get rid of many Chinese who had been living in China for a few hundred years and who had been able to build businesses (especially in the area of finance). Killing the Communist Chinese also freed up a lot of land/businesses and power to be taken over by the government. Sort of killing two birds with one stone. i know in many parts of SE Asia Chinese have been doing banking for hundreds of years (and resumed it again after WW II).

    • Kai

      It was a military coup that failed and the Communists (PKI) were scapegoated for it, so it actually wasn’t even originally about eradicating the communists (they were one of the largest political parties at the time and enjoyed fairly popular support). What snowballed into it was that there was an existing historical prejudice against the Chinese, so a lot of the violence perpetrated by ordinary Indonesians coopted into the movement wasn’t really about ideology at all, but about simply scapegoating easy targets for their own troubles at the time.

      The Chinese media emphasizing the ethnic purges is relevant to its audience, more so than the actual underlying political firestarter. cS’s title accurately reflects the issue as presented on the Chinese internet.

  • Irvin

    You’re not a chinese borned in indonesia, you’re a moral born from the tragic congregation of two idiots.

  • mr.wiener

    I recall that incident and the pictures from it, I think you are correct.

  • Irvin

    After clicking the links at the botton, I just had one thought: when are we gonna kill some of these fuckers? It doesn’t matter if the people they killed are chinese, indians, black or white.

    What these fuckers did was just sick!

    • Biao MA

      that ‘s a violent thinking. you think that way, good as you hate something like that. but don’t let the thoughts that kill these fuckers make you become one of them. sounds like you are heroic.

    • David

      Also, remember this is history. Yes, many of the people who took part in the earlier massacre are still alive (I would think almost all who took part in the 90’s are still around), but unfortunately you get something like this somewhere in the world every few years (and not only in third world countries).

  • ESL Ninja

    Any Vietnamese who lived during the war or shortly after will hate americans, at least all the ones that I met. They tolerate them, mainly for their money, but there is still a lot of resentment there.

    • Alexander

      Disagree respectfully. From my experience I found that the people I encountered in Vietnam have moved-on, in fact, I think they are quite kind towards foreigners (Americans included). Yes, there are people who cater to tourists and try and cheat them with higher prices, but it is no different than an China with market shopping and price negotiating. I feel the French despise Americans more than the Vietnamese do. Also remember Vietnam had three major wars around that time period, first with the French, then with the Americans, and then with the Chinese. Also in old times some Chinese dynasties ruled over much of Vietnam. There is a great quote Ho Chi Mihn said: ““You fools! Don’t you realize what it means if the Chinese remain? Don’t
      you remember your history? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a
      thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism
      is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay
      now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for
      five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life.”

      Hồ Chí Minh”

      • Jim

        The French hate no one more than each other. They’re quite nice to Americans, one-on-one.

    • ScottLoar

      The median age in Vietnam is 28.7 years (males 27.6, females 29.7). The US exited Vietnam a generation before these median-aged Vietnamese were born, and the predominantly young population of Vietnam is one of its most salient characteristics.

      I don’t know how you conclude that “any Vietnamese who lived during the war or shortly after will hate americans (sic)” but that is contrary to my experience over the most recent 15 years, and that war-time generation is so buried in the young populace their attitudes if as you say would be few and far between.

      • ESL Ninja

        I guess the old Vietnamese guys I was drinking coffee with in Saigon last month were a bunch of liars then, My bad.

        • ScottLoar

          How old? What coffee shop? What street? How came you to know these “old Vietnamese guys”?

          Hanoi, Saigon, Hoi An, several times to Vietnam I’ve never had your experience that “any Vietnamese who lived during the war or shortly after will hate americans”, and I’m not the only one to call you out on this.

          Saigon’s coffee shops are not like those in Hanoi with many men sitting on small stools around a few tables, and most of the coffee shops in Saigon serve eats as well so the price is higher.

          • ESL Ninja

            You don’t believe me, that’s fine. I haven’t been to Hanoi but the coffee shops that I visited were very much a few old guys sitting outside on stools, they didn’t sell food. This was out of the city centre though. I didn’t ‘know’ them, we got talking because I was visiting the coffee shop every day. They were asking my Vietnamese friend about me and we got talking. I don’t know the road but the Minh Chau hotel is on it.

            Maybe, just maybe, they were more likely to open up to a Brit who was also shocked and disgusted with the atrocities that America committed than they were to an American who actually went over there and probably committed some himself. The Vietnamese are very polite in my experience but just because someone doesn’t act like they dislike you, it doesn’t mean they don’t.

            I also went out for a beer with my tour guide from the Cu Chi tunnels after the tour, he was only 30 and he also hasn’t forgiven America. He told me that the older generation are happy that the younger generation don’t hold the resentment but there is no way that those who were directly affected would ever be able to really forgive and forget.

            So yeah, believe what you want but this is what I got told.

          • ScottLoar

            If you have occasion next time ask them what they think of the Tet Massacre at Hue, or if former ARVN ask them what happened after the war.

            “A Brit who was also shocked and disgusted with the atrocities that America committed”. You are very much the creature of your 80’s generation but maybe, must maybe, they were opening up to a kindred soul, eh? If they served as ARVN they would be shocked and disgusted at American atrocities? If they served as NVA regulars they would be shocked and disgusted at American atrocities?

            Jesus, you are simple.

          • ESL Ninja

            “ask them what they think of the Tet Massacre at Hue, or if former ARVN ask them what happened after the war.”

            ummm… no.

          • ScottLoar

            Ummm… I see, the round table that day exclusively pandered to shock and disgust at American atrocities. Still, if you ever have another beer with your tunnel guide ask him for directions to the Boat People museum.

    • David

      I think you are missing the point that the U.S. exited Vietnam almost 40 years ago and the people in that country have been doing other things (such as a minor invasion of Cambodia for instance, sometimes violent border disputes with China, increasing their trade with the U.S. which increases jobs in their country etc. . .) in other words they have not been sitting around nursing a grudge for 40 years.

  • Eidolon

    I have seen the documentary. Its sheer brilliance is unfortunately lost on the majority of respondents here. The Act of Killing is less about the specific massacre of 1965, which affected not only ethnic Chinese – though especially ethnic Chinese – but all those who opposed the military dictatorship. It is, rather, about how easy it is for people to turn on one another, to kill one another, and how the gravity of what they did is both relative and retrospective. The film literally made the people who carried out the killings not only admit to them, but boast about them, knowing that the public is behind what they did. The twisted nature of the film is a reminder of how the singular evil that the modern masses have been led to believe was responsible or all the world’s ills simply does not exist. Evil is banal, it is common, and it is normal.

    It’s easy to pin it all on the political leaders. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Suharto, Saddam, Class A Japanese war criminals. But this film shows why such a simple narrative of villainous tyrants and brainwashed innocents is idiotic, a fantasy that ought to be believed only by children, yet is believed everywhere by adults. It’s though people forget that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Suharto, Saddam, and the Imperial Japanese government were all loved by a huge portion of their people, despite and indeed because of the killings they ordered. To say that it’s just people blindly following orders, after seeing this film, is to delude oneself. The perpetrators knew what they were doing; they are even guilty over it; yet it did not stop them from doing what ‘society’ wanted, to be caught in the frenzy of a pogrom, to express their hate, to scam and swindle and rape and steal and murder. To boast about it when they thought it was socially acceptable, to deny it when they thought it was socially unacceptable – one of the genius scenes in the film juxtaposes a journalist who tries on camera to deny his own role in the killings against the gangsters who embrace their role, and who call him out on it.

    None of the people filmed by Oppenheimer were crazy sociopaths. No moral judgment was made by the film about Indonesians vs. Chinese vs. Europeans. That message looks to be lost in all this bickering over whether the Chinese are victims / victimizers. That’s not what the film is about. As Anwar Congo says, ‘there are people like me everywhere.’

    • SAMUS

      you know what more obnoxious? the dictators followers still exist till now, and even till now they still think that what they did are justifiable… they hate everyone that is not Muslim and not shy to show it

  • RagnarDanneskjold

    Any minority that separates itself from the native population while acquiring wealth and power is going to eventually run into trouble when things go badly. It has happened all over the world and throughout history. It is one reason why the Jews continually got kicked out of countries.

    Ethnic Chinese control a lot of businesses in Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, etc. I think in the Philippines they control something like 60-70% of all the companies on the stock exchange.

    I don’t see the Mainlanders Chinese calling them “not Chinese” lack sympathy. They are just saying that this isn’t special for China. It is the same as what happened in Rwanda. Should white people be extra angry about the killing of whites in South Africa today or about what happened in Zimbabwe? It seems Chinese have the same views on citizenship and overseas diaspora as Americans and Europeans.

  • yuchen

    well, I feel sympathy to them but I do not consider them as us. they speak different languages, cantonese ,techew, watever, they have different cultures, they are even much more foreign than those minority ethic people who live around us, not to mention, they even look pretty different, they look south east asians to me. the only thing thing that make them “chinese” to me is they did come out from south china, but china is big and has many different people. so sorry, they aren’t considered the same as us but what the indonesia government did to them is pretty evil.

  • Eidolon

    For the Chinese reactions, it’s also obvious they haven’t seen the film. But I think people on Chinasmack are reading what they want to read into the reactions. A quick analysis –

    “The films nominated for Oscars always involve political messages. Leaving out this film, don’t don’t you think Argo was also like this? Also, without mentioning political incidents, do you think Chinese people in China are friendly towards other Chinese people? Self-deception can be found everywhere, and it is not a problem of national power, but of the collective loss of faith and the decline of people’s identification with our motherland that is the biggest problem.”

    – Indonesian Chinese aren’t excluded from being Chinese

    “Instead of Chinese making the film ourselves, we let an American do it.”

    – Indonesian Chinese are Chinese

    “Those are just overseas ethnic Chinese, not Chinese citizens, and thus they were already outside China’s scope of protection.”

    – Indonesian Chinese are Chinese but they’re outside of our country’s scope of protection because they aren’t citizens

    “During the War of Resistance Against Japan, they [overseas Chinese] did everything they could to donate money, with many people selling all their belongings, then returning to the country to join the war. They are our compatriots. They are Chinese descendants, who should not be excluded over something as small as nationality. Chinese people, unite together, we really shouldn’t sink to becoming slaves of [differentiating on the basis of geography]. Is mutual jealousy and hate that interesting? Let’s be more magnanimous, okay?”

    – Indonesian Chinese are Chinese!!!

    “Those people were still Chinese nationals during Republic of China era [1912-1949], then when the civil war happened, they were still overseas making a living. After the Civil War was over, the People’s Republic of China was founded. The mainland cast its lot with with the Soviet Union, and began continuously exporting communism abroad, with one of the channels being through overseas Chinese, exporting revolution. Later on, the mainland fell out with the Soviet Union. The mainland was very nervous, so it hastily requested an Indonesian-led non-aligned coalition. One of the conditions was noninterference in each others’ internal affairs. On this basis, the mainland abandoned all Chinese who had Chinese nationality in Southeast Asia, including the Chinese previously used to export revolution. What happened afterward was all a consequence of this mutual non-interference (Indonesia had the argument). Think, just how much responsibility is on the mainland?”

    – Indonesian Chinese are Chinese and it’s our fault for abandoning them

    “These people were not willing to come back, so what can you do? As long as they were willing to give up their present identity [nationality], the ships were all arranged. In the end, only about 5,000 people were willing to come back and take refuge. On one hand, they had experienced such things so much before, and therefore treated it lightly [didn’t think it would be different from before]. On the other hand, they had long ago came to see themselves as having an Indonesian identity.”

    – Indonesian Chinese aren’t Chinese because they choose to give up Chinese citizenship
    – I applaud this user for knowing that Indonesian Chinese gave up their Chinese citizenship when given the choice

    “Come out and take a look for yourself, and see what overseas Chinese say.”

    – Overseas Chinese say they’re Chinese so they’re Chinese

    “At the time, before the massacre, our country was already ready to take the ethnic Chinese back to China, and at the same time the United States and Taiwan also promised to save the Chinese fleeing from Indonesia. Ultimately, the promise by the United States and Taiwan ended up being empty words, and only the few taken in by the mainland narrowly escaped the tragedy. When they’re all Chinese descendents, would the country not care about them? So [those that stayed and died] was only because it was their choice. They chose to place their trust in the wrong thing and ultimately hurt themselves. Don’t always say how our country is this or that [negatives], because when you really encounter a crisis, the one you can rely on is still your motherland.”

    – Indonesian Chinese are Chinese but made the mistake of putting their trust in a country other than their motherland; don’t you know only China takes care of Chinese?

    “The issue of nationality is not important. A patriotic overseas Chinese who can’t speak a single phrase of Chinese is still much more lovable than a Chinese traitor who can speak proper putonghua [Mandarin]!”

    – Overseas Chinese who are patriotic are my brothers!!! Screw all the Chinese traitors on the mainland!

    “The 1999 massacre of ethnic Chinese was also hair-raising, but very few people domestically knew about it, and why is that? Why aren’t the Chinese people allowed to know this demon (Indonesia)?”

    – Indonesian Chinese are Chinese, why weren’t we told about their suffering!?!

    “It’s because the Chinese government does not recognize dual nationality, so in the massacre of ethnic Chinese last time, the Chinese government was unable to do anything more to help.”

    – Indonesian Chinese aren’t Chinese citizens, so China wasn’t able to help

    From the list, I see only one netizen who thinks Indonesian Chinese aren’t Chinese, and that’s the netizen who complained bitterly about Indonesian Chinese giving up Chinese citizenship when asked to choose between China and Indonesia. The bulk of others accept Indonesian Chinese to be Chinese, while a few are simply trying to be apologists for why China didn’t help. I see no cause to think, from this selection of netizen reactions, to think that the China Chinese don’t think Indonesian Chinese are Chinese just because they aren’t responding in a gushy way.

  • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

    What a wonderful community

    The basic message is “Psh, not my problem.” You can just feel the emotion in it.

  • Kai
  • Eidolon

    Fact checking wise, there is a lot of misinformation thrown about regarding the 1965 massacres – a necessity because there is no proper accounting for the violence by Indonesian officials, and therefore no solid evidence of, the amount of people killed. The Chinese newspaper is surely quoting estimates and sensationalizing them. I have seen the 300,000, 500,000, 1 million, and 1.5 million quantities for both total victims and Chinese victims. However, Cribbs and Coppel, two leading academic researchers of the massacre, have argued that there is no evidence whatsoever that ethnic Chinese disproportionately lost their lives during the massacre. Chinese were targeted for looting, discrimination, suspicion, etc. because they were seen to be Communists, yes, but just as the documentary describes, the Chinese were frequently given the choice of whether to pay up / be killed, and the fact that they were richer on average and urban gave them ability to escape the killings that mainly affected rural Indonesians.

    Coppel gives ~2,000 for accounted Chinese deaths from the massacre out of a total of hundreds of thousands. Of course there is no proper accounting, But to sensationalize the massacre by saying hundreds of thousands of Chinese died is an issue with both Western and now Chinese media.

    • Wei-Lim Chan

      That is right. The reason why the Chinese were spared, because just 5-6 years before 1965, the Indonesian government had forced the Chinese in the villages to move into the cities/towns. Ironically it saves tens thousands of Chinese.

  • Cauffiel

    ::clap………..clap…………..clap:: fucking nailed it.

  • linette lee

    “Chinese-Indonesians left & ran off to Hong Kong to escape the Chinese discrimination. On the contrary, Chinese-Indonesians who escaped to Taiwan (Republic of China) were not discriminated against and stayed in Taiwan.”

    Thank You, now go explain to the China Chinese that HK and Taiwan are much more acceptable to people from all different background. No like China which is very discriminating and prejudice.

    • YourSupremeCommander

      That explains why they kicked you out.

      • linette lee

        Me and my family weren’t kicked out you dumba55. 你這個笨蛋. How about you? You got kicked out?

        • YourSupremeCommander

          LOL, the truth really hurts doesn’t it?

    • sfphoto1

      Then why do HK Chinese abuse their Indonesian maids? Isn’t that discrimination and prejudice?

      • linette lee

        Because like anywhere in the world some bosses abuse their workers shxt happens. It’s only a few cases and it made it to big headlines. That is pretty good control by the HK gov’t in protecting migrant workers. Also so many maids do things to sabotage the boss so they will get fired to get money compensation. That is what the maids want to do. They get hired and when they get the visa and the job they don’t show up some days or show up to work and do nothing or some even hurt the children they are hired to babysit. Many cases and reports the maids drugged the children to keep them sleeping. I think a child died also.

        Also since those few cases were big news HK bosses abuse maids and all you folks know about it. Why still so many want to go to work in HK as maids if it’s so horrible? They all keep coming.

  • linette lee

    “would it have been different if it was the Japanese that did the crime?”

    No, It would not have been different if it was the Japanese that did it to Chinese Indonesians. It’s only different if Japanese did it to China Chinese.

  • markus peg

    A sick part of recent history that must not be forgotten, everyone regardless of nationality should show sympathy for those that died REGARDLESS of political agenda most of those if not all were innocent and didn’t not deserve such a fate.
    It’s a shame than nations around the world didn’t do more to stop it.

  • David

    Thank you for the interesting comments.

  • Xu

    I’m an Indonesian Chinese.. Mainland Chinese always hate Overseas Chinese who are not mainland citizen, they say we’re not patriotic, traitor, blah blah blah. They mixed up ethnicity with nationality.
    They think we emigrate from China to become and traitor and ashamed of being chinese, the truth is lots of us emigrate from China because of war and there’s no food in China and we live poorly in other country and work like really really hard (That’s why lots of overseas chinese are rich and controlling south east asian economy).
    When the 1998 incidents happen, Singaporean Chinese, American Chinese, and other Chinese all around the world are helping us while the mainland Chinese do nothing. But now, lots of Indonesian Chinese are successful here, become wealthy businessman, taking part of politics, become celebrity, and etc, those mainland chinese start coming to our country (I think they are the real traitor to their country).
    As for the incident, well I (and lots of indonesian chinese) don’t even want to hate indonesian native or mainland chinese. We’re victim of racism and we don’t want to do that to other race.. I think hating people because of their race or nationality is just plainly stupid..

    and btw, chinese history in indonesia is really long and complicated, can’t fit in a paragraph or two… so if you want to know more, do your own research or just come to our country..

    • I’m A Fiend

      I like your perspective and attitude. Not many people can be so forgiving. I would love to come to your country one day and learn more about your history.

    • Irvin

      You don’t need to elaborate on the long history you claimed indonesian chinese have. Just enlighten us on the part where you think what those fuckers did was forgivable or at least justifiable.

      • SAMUS

        is not justifiable, the people who did the massacre was mostly a Muslim. the culprint descendant even till now lots of them still hate every Chinese descent and every other people who didn’t share the same faith as them.. but what can we do, Muslim is almost 90% of the population here, even right now they still celebrate the killing even tough not in public

    • dadada

      your country, do you mean by indonesia?

    • Merohedral

      It’s interesting to see comments like yours from an Indonesian Chinese perspective. As far as I know, you are not a christian, yet you show more forgiveness towards those who killed your people than what the christians preach about.

      • Zappa Frank

        it’s not that frogiveness was invented by christians

        • Merohedral

          Of course not. I mean that the forgiveness displayed here would put to shame some christians who preach about forgiveness without practicing it.

          • Zappa Frank

            yes true. i would say that most christians preach about a religion that in true they do not practice unless they think that it consits only in going sometime in church and do whatever they want in the rest of time.

      • SAMUS

        lots of us here kinda forced to forgive otherwise the radicals Muslim will try to eliminate us

    • bang2tang

      Yep, you can read how some of singaporean chinese don’t really like mainland chinese.

    • GlobalChineseArmy

      Indonesian chinese are fake chinese, you dont speak chinese, you dont respect Mao Zedong, You follow evil religions like christianity. You speak like indonesian cockroaches.

      We real chinese never go down to level of sub human race. if you were real Chinese you should exterminate stupid indonesian cockroaches. My uncle moved to Xin Jiang 10 years ago, he and his comrades in security force crushed many uyghurs, skinned alive uyghur women. Thats why now Han Chinese become so strong there. Few decades ago our proportion was less than 10 percent now we are already more than uyghur cockroaches soon we will wipe them all.

      If you really want to be a good chinese you need to stop being like cockroaches. You need to destroy stupid indonesians. start killing their b stard kids burn their houses soon they will be weak. Then you can consider yourself good chinese. In philippines Chinese government help many filipino chinese to crush stupid filipinos. We supported our glorious warriors in NPA to kill coward filipino soldiers. If indonesian Chinese are smart enough to set guerrilla group that loyal to China China is more than willing to help and supply best weapons to exterminate indonesian monkeys.

      • KamikaziPilot

        You sound trollish but I have a feeling you’re not even trolling, these are your real feelings. If yes, you need to be on tied to a board and have me shit on your face. The only cockroach is you. Have fun breathing your polluted air, poisoned food, buildings that collapse and having lower status than a slave in the world.

        • GlobalChineseArmy

          Shut up you indonesian cockroach, China people are greatest form of human, you have no right to judge China people you go and crawl with your own kind of pests

          • KamikaziPilot

            An Indonesian cockroach is still better than a Chinese cockroach. I’ll judge Chinese people any way I want. Chinese people the greatest form of humans? Is that supposed to be a joke, now go and smell my kim chee farts you short, little midget man. How about I have this guy sit on you until you can’t breathe.

          • GlobalChineseArmy

            Stupid idiot, you have no idea what are the consequences of criticizing China people, If you have balls you can say that in front of Chinese citizens you will be chopped off into pieces. If you have brain see the real facts look at the tibet and uyghur cockroaches, If they criticize anything about chinese they get punished heavily offender’s whole family will be exterminated. So better watch your words. We are Chinese people and China is the strongest nation.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Oh for christ sake are you even serious? You sound like a little kid making a joke. You insecure, weak, little boy. You really make me laugh little boy. I’ve criticized Chinese people to their face before and nobody does anything. They’re all too scared to fight me. They can only fight weak people but are scared of anyone stronger. Tell me one major war China has won? They get destroyed by the West even little Japan destroyed them. Face the facts, nobody is afraid of China because they’re weak. Now why don’t you go and dig your nose like you people always like to do.

          • GlobalChineseArmy

            That’s bs, you are brainwashed by western idiots, China is the strongest and best nation. If we were scared we wouldn’t enlarge our nation, a century ago our lands less than 35% of current area, We expanded, We conqured tibet inner mongolia and xinjiang now we are going to conquer philippines and vietnam, We will continue exterminate non han chinese cockroach races. We already wiped manchurian cockroaches we slaughtered most of tibet and uyghur cockroaches. We are not scared of fight we are most courageous people on the earth. Get lost you are so scared of china perhaps jelous because we are the strongest nation.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Okay you’re really funny now. I guess you have nothing better to be proud of picking on those weaker than yourself. The minute China faces a first world nation, I bet they’ll be running scared. And you still haven’t answered my question about any major wars against advanced nations China has won. Jealous of China? Yeah right, why would I want to live in polluted cities in a building that may collapse on me at anytime. If China is the strongest nation why have they been invaded so many times? Only your delusional mind thinks that China is the strongest nation. Nobody else agrees with you.

    • Vietnam

      Mainland chinese look down on Overseas chinese?? That’s new… never had it or felt much of it.. in fact, when I talked to them, they still regard us overseas chinese as brothers/sisters.. on the contrary, we don’t regard them as such…

  • Alexander

    As recent as 1997 the Indonesians attacked Chinese people living there. There was a horrible story in Amy Chua’s book “World on Fire” about a 14 year old Chinese girl being gang raped in front of her parents, and then her genitals mutilated and her parents murdered. Later the girl committed suicide in the hospital she was taken to. In my opinion, the Indonesians that committed these crimes are just as despicable as the Japanese War criminals in Nanjing.

  • Alexander

    I didn’t find either of their comments as you said about Southern European as puerile. I respect both of their comments. I think Southern European is just frustrated to see innocent people slaughtered like sheep in such a heinous inhumane manner. I understand his post, people should guard their castle (aka house) and not just surrender. How to guard your house from an angry mob, well take that bottle of baijiu (or vodka) insert a small towel hold a lighter to it and you have a Molotov cocktail ready to go. As a last resort, you can go Kamikaze, by taking a propane tank which are commonly used for fueling cooking stoves and go out with a bang. I think the point that I am getting to or that Southern European was aiming at was: better to perish in battle than to be murdered like a chicken.

  • anon101

    didnt click the link, If chinese people dont give a shit then that tells you everything you need to know about chinese society.

  • David

    This is why school is the beginning of your education and not the end. You will be shocked as you get older how much you have not learned about the world yet (not just history but economics, physics, philosophy). That being said, Indonesia was an alley of the U.S. at this time and governments in general tend to gloss over the atrocities that their allies commit in the name of the greater good (at that time the greater good was the anti-communist Cold War). We were especially worried about the Domino effect of SEA falling to Communism and Suharto was a stout anti-communist (mostly for his own personal gain, like Marcos in the Philippines, not because he believed in Democracy.

    • ScottLoar

      “This is why school is the beginning of your education and not the end.” So true, and sadder that even that beginning is most always short and shallow.

    • linette lee

      I didn’t learn shxt when I was in school. lol.

  • Jorge

    The 1965 killings of Indonesian was a politically motivated communists purge. While there are no denying a lot of chinese were also the victims, other much larger native Indonesians who were accused of having communist ties were also killed. To single out a particular ethnic group over other larger victims and describe it as “massacre of ethnic chinese” is highly inappropriate and show how sinocentric view the mainland chinese has. It is a dark history of Indonesia, not China, and it owes no apology to China, but to the Indonesian at a whole itself, not just ethnic Chinese.

  • Balkan

    I believe China could have done something to protect Chinese Indonesians, but what really surprises me is the fact no one says how horrible it was of native Indonesians to commit massacres of ethnic Chinese and that no one has ever been held accountable for those deaths. Deaths of 500 000 people! 300 000 ethnic Chinese! Does it matter when and why those people left China? They emigrated from the mainland because of the economic and social situation that existed in China at the time. How can one even begin to discuss whether those people were patriotic or not when their only fault was they were ethnic Chinese? Has this world gone insane?

  • Chinasmackguestguest

    They are talking about if the Chinese government should interfere, not about sympathy. Does any single comment say they deserved the massacre because they are not Chinese nationals?
    Trollers like you on this site are just epic. You guys can spin everything into china bashing.

    • Don’t Believe the Hype

      He is not trolling, it is easy to see that many of the comments are in regards to nationality and thus whether those killed were traitors/ sympathizers or less, not worth saving. The tone is defensive, which is not surprising considering the pervasive Chinese inferiority complex, but what i see little of is pitty or signs of respect for the intentions of revealing this tragedy. That is rather strange, don’t you think?

  • Guest

    Rather than the Chinese, it is you guys who always bring in Japanese in any irrelevant topic.
    I guess you must hate the Japanese more than the Chinese do.

    • Don’t Believe the Hype

      unlikely, only mainlanders have so much time to waste on blind patriotism. nice almost attempt at spin.

  • Wodowsan

    Chinese or not Chinese. Why should any human being just allow other humans be slaughtered? Only if they look like me I should care? Only if they live in the same nation as me I should care? I think those defending the netizen comments tell so much more about what is wrong with the radical nationalism in China.

  • ScottLoar

    Odd, yes? Traveling in the Cambodian countryside, looking into the distance, I felt… strange, unsettled. At first I thought it was because of the books I’d read (Pol Pot” The History of a Nightmare by Philip Short, and The Gate by Francois Bizot [you learn to despise Bizot for his stupidity and callowness]); then supposed it was caused by the continual shrinking of Khmer, later Cambodia, which continues to shrink (I doubt Cambodia will exist as a state or people a hundred years onward; the Thais, Vietnamese, and now the Chinese are active squatters); but the feeling was like yours, haunting, as if I were ringed in by silent screams. It’s reassuring (I’m not crazy) to know another feels Cambodia is strangely different.

    My wife and friends toured the interrogation center of Duch in Phnom Penh, but I waited outside and looked at silks in a shop nearby; I don’t want reminders that we visit horror and pain on each other.

  • Paul Schoe

    Why troll?

  • Eidolon

    Because they would rather take the risk and be rich than stay in China and be poor.

    For all the talk of discrimination, pogroms, etc., the Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia is immensely successful, and control a large portion of the economy in every country in which they exist. In Indonesia, around 1995 the Chinese were believed to control over 70% of all publicly listed businesses that were not government/foreign owned. While this figure exaggerates their control of the economy due to the fact that a lot of Indonesia’s economy continues to be state/foreign owned, it is nonetheless telling of their status among the economic elite.

    • Guest

      OP here; if you’re going to control that much wealth in a country, at least have the brains to control a stake in the government, like Chinese in Malaysia, or Jewish people in wherever. That way you’ll have protection from getting slaughtered…

    • ScottLoar

      Yes, the Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia is immensely successful, and most of those came from 台山 and 中山 counties in Guangdong, and Fujian, all desperately poor places long plagued by pirates and brigands. The Chinese success was exploiting the market niches left open to them (land ownership was denied under some sultans in Malaya), mostly as middlemen, shop owners and traders, or in monopolies such as opium farming and tin mining; their ability to accumulate and reinvest capital; their management skills; what we now call “networking” among persons from the same county; pursuit of higher education especially in high-income professions; and naked ambition. Most of their modern accumulated wealth is not from or invested in the stock market or publicly held companies but in real estate.

      This success, and their deserved reputation for being sharp traders, does cause resentment; what you characterize as “talk of discrimination, pogroms, etc.” is reality and exacerbated by most Chinese’ insensitivity to others. As a simple example, don’t laugh at the ceremonies of Taipusam at Batu Caves; it pisses people off. Singapore had the race riots of 1964, Malaysia had the race riots of ’69, and Indonesia has race riots every decade or so in the hinterlands (I’m including Yogyakarta).

  • Don’t Believe the Hype

    u must be pretty rich

    • scanner

      or an ethnic minority

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        yeah thats likely

  • sfphoto1

    I think “forsaken” is the wrong word. There are Overseas Chinese towns all over Guangdong and Fujian which were settled by Chinese fleeing Indonesia and Vietnam. They’re treated differently by the locals only if they’ve lost their “Chineseness”. As an Overseas Chinese myself, I am treated quite well by the mainland Chinese. And when I tell them I am not from the Mainland, they’ll say: 你讲普通话怎么好!

    • Wei-Lim Chan

      Now they are treated well, but it was very difficult in the beginning,at least until the end of the Cultural Revolution. They were suspected of being foreign spies, The losing of Chineseness is secondary. That is why they fled to Hong Kong in 1970s. Try living in China in the1960s, and see how long you can last.

      .

      • sfphoto1

        There were two big waves of refugees resetting in the PRC: Indonesian “Tionghua” in the 50s and 60s, and the Vietnamese “Hoa” in the 70s and 80s. You’re correct that the Indonesian Chinese had a difficult time during the Cultural Revolution (and so was everybody) and they did flee to HK in the 70s. But I am talking about the period after Deng’s reforms in the 80s when the “Overseas Chinese” began investing in the PRC, including those Chinese-Indonesians in HK and from Indonesia.

        The Vietnamese “Hoa” also resettled in large numbers in the PRC. But they were treated differently because many had intermarried and assimilated to Vietnamese society when they fled South Vietnam as “Boat People”. The PRC has so far refused to grant them Chinese Citizenship to this day.

  • William Chan

    There is a great deal of misinformation going on. There are reports of 300,000 Chinese Indonesians killed. That is not a credible figure. Most studies put the number in the low thousands. The massacres were calculated and methodical attempt to get rid of the Communist (PKI). People in the movie were bit players, most of the killing was done by the army. The would round people up, put them in holding camps and then take them out to be shot.

    How did the numbers of 300,000 came about. There have been anti-Chinese violence before and after that, and there were attacks on Chinese.in the cities during 1965, so people thought the Chinese got the brunt of it. Most of the Western reporters were in the cities. Reporters usually report what they can see. As this was happening,hundreds of thousands were being systemically killed in the countryside. Since 1959, there were very few Chinese in the villages,, because the Chinese were forced out by the Indonesian government into towns and cities.

    No Indonesian Government will ever apologize to the PRC for 1965, until China comes clean on its involvement with the Indonesian Communist Party. China’s policy in Indonesia was contradictory in early 1960s. On one side you support an organization that calls for overthrow of capitalist order in Indonesia. And on the other
    side, because of shared ethnicity, you have close ties to the Capitalist
    elite of that Indonesia. Had the PKI succeeded (as the VCP did in
    Vietnam) the end result would have been much worse than what Suharto did
    to Chinese Indonesians in 1965. That was also the case in Cambodia, when 100,000 Chinese Cambodians had died What did China expect the local commies to do,when they get into power, leave the ethnic Chinese businessmen alone

    People have to remember alot more indigenous Indonesians died in 1965 than Chinese Indonesians. I find it ironic that Chinese call for a ban on Bali, when in 1998 Chinese Indonesians (and others) fled to Bali because it was safe The Balinese are even more welcoming to Chinese people than Thais are. You often see Chinese people pray at Hindu temples etc.

    Act of Killing is a horrible film for first time viewers of 1965, because it provide very little context. People are so ignorant of Indonesia, they often get the names of the first tow Presidents confused.

  • Wei-Lim Chan

    I would like to make a point here. There is a common misconception here
    that Chinese Indonesians fled elsewhere during 1965-1970s. Very few did.
    First off the violence didn’t effect them that much, and secondly many
    places at the time stop ped accepting them iChina, Hong Kong or Taiwan).
    Most of the Chinese Indonesians who left (300,000) had left between
    1959-1965) to China, Taiwan and some to Hong Kong. There are many
    Chinese Indonesians in Hong Kong, about 250,000 including descendants.
    But most of them didn’t go directly from Hong Kong. During the early
    1970s those Chinese Indonesians who migrated back to China started
    migrating back to Hong Kong. There are 200,000 Chinese Indonesians and
    their descendants in Hong Kong today. It would not have happened had it
    no been for the Indonesian political situation in the early 1960s. The
    use of Indonesian maids in Hong Kong started with Chinese Indonesians,
    that is who it spread to the rest of Hong Kong society.

  • Cameron

    Seems Chinese people often place more importance on the “ethnic” aspect of being Chinese rather than the national aspect. As such is it hardly surprising that there is still such resentment and unrest among young ethnic Mongolian/Tibetan/Uyghur Chinese citizens?

    Seems they are expected to act loyals subjects of a country while the majority of ethnic Chinese treat them essentially as Foreigners/conquered people.

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