Netizens Compare Lost Chinese Territory to Crimea Crisis

chinese-lost-territory-tuva-republic-cover

In the light of the recent Crimean referendum deciding on the reunification with Russia, Chinese netizens drew parallels between the current Ukrainian crisis to the loss of former Chinese territory. Both Imperial Russia and later the Soviet Union, using the justification of defending Russian interests, sent troops into both Tannu Tuva and Mongolia, where referendums were held to declare independence from China.

Many online criticized the traditionally pro-Russian support in China and ask if Chinese people have forgotten their own history.

From KDNet:

Russia’s Two Referendums Cost China 2 million km² of Territory

Looking at Russia instigating a referendum in Crimea, as a “former nationalist”, I feel conflicted. I only know that because of Russia’s past two “referendums”, our China instantly lost 2 million km² of territory.

Russia’s first “conscientious referendum”, location: Tannu Uriankhai

Tannu Uriankhai, with an area of 240,000 km² is located in the northwest corner of Mongolia. During the Qing Dynasty it was undisputedly part of our territory, as Tannu Uriankhai was part of the overall 1909 national census. At the time Tsarist Russia had attempted many times to annex Tannu Uriankhai but failed. Fortunately, the Qing court stationed border troops here. After the fall of the Qing Dynasty, Tsarist Russia began to send in large numbers of armed forces and Tannu Uriankhai became under the de facto control of the Tsar. During the era of the Beiyang government, with the start of the October Revolution in Russia, the Republic of China in 1917 decided to forcefully retake the area of Tannu Uriankhai. By 1919, after 2 years of difficult war, it was declared that Tannu Uriankhai had been reclaimed. On 1920 December 21, the president of the Republic of China Xu Shichang issued an executive declaration and appointed Huang Chentu as the consular of Tannu Uriankhai.

But sadly, the sound of cannons in the October Revolution brought Marxism to China, along with the Soviet Red Army. In 1921, the Soviet Red Army under the guise of pursuing White Russian forces, forcefully entered Tannu Uriankhai, while the White Russian army was destroyed, so was our “Tannu Uriankhai”.

In March of 1921, under the intervention and manipulation of the Soviet Red Army, Tannu Uriankhai held a “pseudo-referendum”, the result predictable, and in 1921 August, Tannu Uriankhai declared independence. In December, it changed its name to Tannu Tuva and later in 1926 it changed its name to the “Tuvan People’s Republic”. Although the Soviet Union repeatedly promised it would not make the “Tuvan People’s Republic” their own territory, in 1944 August 17, the “Tuvan People’s Republic” asked the Soviet Union to take control of Tannu Uriankhai, which made it no longer a problem, because it was not Soviet Russia that wanted to take them but “them” voluntarily delivering themselves [to Russia]. The Soviet Union naturally accepted the “request”. On the 13th of October, the “Tuvan People’s Republic” officially became the “Tuvan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic”, and to this day it remain an “inseparable part of Russian territory”, its name now: “The Tyva Republic under the Russian Federation”.

Although at the time we continued to insist that “Tannu Uriankhai is forever China’s sacred territory” (declared by the Foreign Ministry of the Republic of China in 1948), sadly it is gone and not returning. Russia, out of “the kindness of their heart” organized a referendum in China, and because of this China lost “Tannu Uriankhai”, and 170,000 km² of territory.

Russia’s second “conscientious referendum”, location: Mongolia

Russia held referendums in Mongolia, on several occasions, and the ultimate result is something I don’t care to go into. Either way, they achieved their “effective referendum”, and we said “goodbye” to Mongolia. Instantly our territory decreased by 1.7 million km². And our map went from being a maple leaf shape to that of a chicken, a chicken that doesn’t know how to lay eggs.

As time passed, it became history, and once the wound healed, the pain was forgotten, like after being raped so much that the “rapist” becomes the husband. Looking at Russia’s referendum in Crimea, and then look at the world map, I can only clench my teeth, only blame myself for being a “former nationalist”.

Comments from KDNet:

山阴道士:

The Russia that has never done any good; if it’s not destroyed, then there is no justice in the world.

大越人:

The consistent practice of brutish barbaric Russia has been to steal the land of other countries. If we go by Russia’s logic, then China could at anytime refuse to acknowledge that the land from Outer Khingan Range to Sakhalin Island belongs to Russia.

随便看看5:

Of course they are stolen land.

三进三进:

Relying on referendums to join a country and relying on referendums to pick who becomes the leader is historical progress! The natural order of social development!

314111294:

The former Soviet Union is the embodiment of evil, and when compared to Hitler’s Germany, it was far worse. And today’s Russia is just a smaller Soviet Union, its evil nature unchanged.

tianningsi:

Looking at history, [Russia] had a history of swallowing up other country’s territory. The devil Stalin had even more ambition than the Tsar. Before and after WWII they invaded many different countries’ territory, such as the Karjala area of Finland, Ulansuhai Nur and Heixiazi Island of China, and the Kuril Islands of Japan.

没法打败你:

The 50 cent party who support the Crimea referendum are shameless, they could never understand the principle of “do not do to others what you would not have them do to you”.

From Sina Weibo:

@作家崔成浩: Crimea holds a referendum to split from Ukraine, and unbelievably there are people amongst you all cheering it on. Did you know? In 1945 October, the Soviet Union also encouraged a referendum in Mongolia, with only 500,000 people participating, but was able to cut away 15% of China’s territory.

chinese-map-mongolia-lost-territory

Comments from Sina Weibo:

不在场1:

In this, Russia really has crossed the line, supporting regions in other countries to hold referendums is wrong, and if the UN approves, then Tibet, Xingjiang, and Inner-Mongolia would all hold referendums for independence.

海浪1217:

Those Chinese who support the Crimea referendum all didn’t do well in history.

天201410:

The current Ukrainian government is an illegal government that came to power through a coup. The Crimean people should not let an illegal government decide their fate,, so a referendum is the best choice.

充气小子:

The corruption and incompetence of both the Ukrainian and the Republic of China governments are the main reasons for these tragedies.

加菲他不是一只猫:

History always repeats, back then the Soviet Union also sent troops to Mongolia and chased away the Nationalist government while supporting a puppet state to hold a referendum. Yet, today there are still many SB who are cheering for the Crimean referendum. The ass kissing is pissing me off!

吴禹希同学:

Open the door, here to check your water meter

DamienYang:

Those who support the Crimean referendum, please continue supporting when Taiwan holds a referendum [for independence] in the future.

tanmin1018:

The Republic of China has never recognized the independence of Mongolia!

九五零一:

If we were to hold a referendum now, how many more people would want to leave China?

Present day Taiwan (the Republic of China) still claims both Tannu Uriankhai and Mongolia as part of their territory.

Present-day Taiwan (aka the Republic of China) still claims both Tannu Uriankhai and Mongolia as part of their territory.

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  • wnsk

    話說天下大勢,分久必合,合久必分

    What is long united will soon split up, what is long fragmented will eventually be united. Such has been the pattern since antiquity. (Excuse my clumsy translation.)

    • Progressive Dubstep

      indeed

    • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

      Are you commanders Mime/clown cousin?

  • mr.wiener

    I think most of the thinking in China on the Crimean has been along the lines of: “the enemy of my enemy….” ie whatever America is for we should be against.
    Enemies and circumstances are both prone to change.

    • http://twitter.com/joexu Joe

      Theoretically China’s shouldn’t support Russia on Crimea due to China’s own outstanding territorial issues, the last thing China want is a foreign power coming in to demand Tibet or Xingjiang to hold a vote.

      • Webster

        Or, you know, Taiwan…

      • nita

        I think it’s clear the Crimea referendum was a mere pretext for Russia taking Crimea, but if Russia is concerned over Ukraine potentially joining NATO, I can’t say that is an illegitimate concern from their perspective. Joining NATO is not a popular idea to many Ukrainians, but the idea had been tossed around until Yanukovich took it off the table in 2010. Now that Yanukovich has been ousted and Ukraine is destabilized, Russia may be concerned about NATO again.

        No country wants another military alliance up against its border. Hence, why China got involved in Korea and Vietnam. If Canada or Mexico had the potential to join a pro-Russian military alliance, the US would be concerned for sure.

      • Doge Wallace

        Change that avatar.

    • Zappa Frank

      it’s not just because the enemy of my enemy, China had big projects in Ukraine that now will likely be stopped (rent 5%of Ukraine for framing, waiting back the payment of 3bilions dollars and so on..) than I think China did not want the change of government, so much that in the beginning accused the west to be involved in the riots..
      now the situation is changing, china is sensitive on territorial issues, and although china cannot stay with the traditional Russian ally still cannot take a position against him..

      • Eurotrash

        The west WAS involved in the riots. It’s a fact.

        • mr.wiener

          Care to share these facts?

    • Alex Dương

      Do you conclude that based on the translated comments? Because there seem to be many that express a view of “let’s not be hypocrites.”

    • Mighty曹

      That’s Russia and China’s veto history against most UN resolutions favored by the US.

  • Germandude

    “Relying on referendums to join a country, relying on referendums to pick who becomes the leader, this is a historical progress! The natural order of social development!”

    Uh-hum, time will tell. Some are quicker than others.

  • Zen my Ass

    Taiwan should definitively invade China and take everything back…

    • Progressive Dubstep

      going through the back door? wink wink zen my ass

    • fsun

      well, that would be funny at least

  • commander

    As Russia’s quest for Soviet Unions era old glory in the face of what Kremlin sees as an threatening easterward advancing of the European Unions and NATO has led to Crimea’s secession from Ukraine in Sunday’s vote, many Chinese people appear to want its nation to become the center of the world yet again as its name the Middle of Kingdom indicates.

    For many Koreans, such aspiration, however, sounds like a dichotomy as China, while proclaiming the holiness of non-intervention in internal affairs of one states as cherished and fundamental rules in contemporary international relations with western meddling in two straits affaris in mind, has exerted immense influences on the Korea Peninsula to keep it divided or not fall under the sphere of influence by the United States.

    China should set an example to make its case convincing to other countries.

    • Insomnicide

      Not everyone wants to call China the ‘middle kingdom’. But they do because if they change the name to anything else, sinophobic foreigners and ethnic minorities in China would cry Han chauvinism.

  • Progressive Dubstep

    ..

  • Rick in China

    I like the “Mongolia belongs to China” argument. Wouldn’t Mongolia also be able to argue that they have had so many dynasties which owned all of China, it is theirs? And PRC should be ousted, give it back to the ROC? Etc. It’s all nonsense.

    What I dislike most, is saying that a place called *mongolia* should be “owned” by *non-mongolians*, because some time in the past someone else ruled it (when that place wasn’t ruling the non-mongolians’ lands) and we took their rule over our current nation via revolution so we should inherit their claims to that other place, which is occupied by people other than our people, and they should submit to our control…… AND PEOPLE STILL NOD SAYING YES OF COURSE THAT MAKES SENSE!

    Fuck.

    • http://twitter.com/joexu Joe

      I think it is intended to compare to a multiethnic country like Russia that dominate over much of the Asian landmass. Russia had less of a justification to annex Tuva and Crimea was once owned by Crimean Tatars who of course were deported by Stalin.

      • Rick in China

        That would make sense if you buy into that being the intended argument, as opposed for an opportunity for 50-cent style rants about how everything that once belonged to a previous kingdom based in China should be swallowed up back into the great motherland, which I think is far more likely the intention in many of those comments…

        I strongly believe that ethnicities with majority in a particular geographic region should be allowed to hold their own referendums as to whether they belong to a nation or not, not have their many-generation-constantly-inhabited-by-ancestors lands passed around like whores by whomever has the biggest swinging dick at the political round table at the moment.

        • http://twitter.com/joexu Joe

          Actually the 50 cent party in the case would be those who support Russia’s position, in opposition to the West and the United States. While the most in the comments are the right-wing nationalists who are opposed to Russia and demand return of Chinese territory. It is more of a leftwing/rightwing debate than anything.

          • ElectricTurtle

            You’re obliviously oversimplifying if you think it’s always East vs. West. Chairman Mao himself sent the PLA to attack the Russians in 1969 and concurrently began reinstituting diplomatic contact with the US and the West. The CCP is not about East vs. West, it is about the party and the party’s interests vs. whatever is not the party or against the party’s interests. On that you can always rely.

          • http://twitter.com/joexu Joe

            I think you misunderstood my comment, I was talking about the left and right divide among the Netizens, not the CCP. The CCP is never about the East vs. West, but online sentiments often clash with CCP positions, in this case the CCP chose not to speak against Russia regarding former territorial issues, thus irked some Chinese nationalists.

        • Progressive Dubstep

          the chinese should also make a referredum to get rick out of china. that seems more logical.h

          • Zappa Frank

            Chinese and referendum is an oxymoron

          • Progressive Dubstep

            i’m chinese, your not stop having that western mentaity
            it’s leading you no where.

          • mr.wiener

            Your avatar is nazi, your name is Korean you speak German [indifferently] and you pepper your non-native English with Australian-isms.
            You might be many things , but mainly you are confused.

          • the ace of books

            He’s a citizen of the world.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            Funny how crumbling nations tend to become more nationalistic but in the case of China it seems that it’s the other way around

          • Kai

            I don’t see much of a correlation between nationalism and “crumbling” nations. There has been plenty of nationalism throughout the historical rise of many countries, like the UK, USA, Korea, Japan, and China.

      • Zappa Frank

        Crimea was part of Russia from before Stalin, there was even a war between Russians and some Europeans countries (france, italy, England, ecc..) that you can read in a famous book of Tolstoj..There were Tartars, but under Russian… before Tartars were known for being alley of Ottomans and slave traders…I think Russia had some justification for the invasion (end of XVIII sec), at least not less than any other invasion happened..
        The distinction we read here between Europe and Asia often in Russia has no sense, since it is not a geographical distinction but rather cultural..

    • wnsk

      Technically, Mongolia only had 1 dynasty that ruled China — the Yuan dynasty, which lasted for 90+ years. That’s relatively short.

      But I don’t think the “argument”–or people in general–is/are as simple as you are making it/them out to be. People feel what they feel and they have their own (ofttimes emotional) reasons for feeling as they do; outsiders like us (i.e. non-Mongolian or non-Chinese) are bound not to know the whole story or background. It’s really not for us to say whose opinion is more valid.

      • Progressive Dubstep

        +1 agree with you 100% white people tends to hypocritcal all the time

        • Jahar

          Yeah. Us white people are all the same.

          • Progressive Dubstep

            yeah no shit aye? can’t see it’s joke

          • mr.wiener

            You cannot write BS like that then say “it’s [a] joke”.

          • Mateusz82

            Poe’s law… “Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won’t mistake for the real thing.”

          • splooge

            lotta whites do this online when they offend a group. then theyll reply u lack a sense of humor…..nothin new

          • mr.wiener

            Yes, and as when someone makes a small penis reference I’ll delete it when I see it.
            This user [progressive dubstep] had been trolling for some time before the mods ran out of patience with him.

          • Probotector

            Only whites? And how do you know they are whites?

          • Jahar

            You can see mine is a joke. sarcasm has to be a little more obvious.

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        When hypocrisy is so blatant it should be called out. No one has a monopoly on free speech.

        • wnsk

          You’re implying I’m saying he should shut up. That’s not what I’m saying.

      • John

        Mongolia is one of the poorest country on Earth, i do not mean to discriminate, i mean look at their living situation, food scarce and water scarce, now they’re facing this winter storm, and food are becoming more limited. very low Human development, poor human development and etc. I mean look at the history, they used to be a great babarian, slaughter millions of Han Chinese and so on. but now look at them today. Poor as shit. i think they deserve that for what their ancestor had done.

        • Shaa

          and what about Germany???? And what about USA(Native americans) What about french and greatbritain. They are all the same. There are no human history without war and blood. why only Mongolia?? because it was biggest empire in history? only because of that???

        • BBB

          Actually, do your research before declaring everyone that you’re an ignorant retard. Mongolia is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, with the 2nd largest copper/gold deposit in the world, literacy rate is more than 95%. Anyways, your very low human opinion is completely irrelevant to any of us, you’re probably a lowly educated noob who has nothing else better to do. Read the news, read a book, get a life :) good luck

    • Butsu

      Wasn’t there some Chinese professor who said that “After 5 years Mongolia will come back like a crying kid who runs towards his mother”. Look how that turned out.

      • Progressive Dubstep

        it will comeback, you shall see

        • Aorigele

          The fuck it WON’T come back. Why the fuck would mongolians want to let all you lao li’s, lao wang’s and lao chen’s come over and pollute the place with gutter oil food and mine all the minerals and turn the place into a polluted SHITHOLE like every city in China is. You think because every chinese new year you pay a bunch of mongols to sing and dance on tv that mongolians actually like you fucking han communists? Let me remind you that mongolia only became a part of China under the Manchu Qing Dynasty. How about you fucking han commies realize the Man race of the Qing hated your worthless asses. Your fucking chinese commie army is only good for killing students and controlling your own population from overthrowing your 40 to 1 per capita public servants and the ruling family dynasies that make full use of your slave population. You can’t even take the diaoyu islands back let alone taiwan. So continue thinking you’ve got some claim to other people’s land just because you post comments with german regalia, whose real bearers would stomp your brains in just for being slant-eyed racially inferior slime.

          • Jahar

            Tell us how you really feel.

          • Dick Leigh

            I don’t think the internet could handle that much feel.

          • the ace of books
          • Jahar

            I can’t see that picture. What is it? Stupid great firewall…

          • Germandude

            Just a screaming cartoon face with loads of fuuuuuuuuuuu written in the background. Nothing to write home about.

          • the ace of books

            Rageface. If you know the “ffffuuuuuuu-” face, you’re not missing much. :)

          • བོད་

            Actually Ulaanbaatar is the second worst polluted city in the world, just behind Ahwaz in Iran. Talking about Shitholes, I think Mongolia fits your decription perfectly.

          • Aorigele

            ulaanbaatar IS a shithole, just like beijing, shanghai, hangzhou, shengyang, hefei, guangzhou, zhengzhou, etc. lucky there’s only one in mongolia. If it was ever under the PRC there would be many more.

          • the ace of books

            I don’t know if you can call any city “the most polluted city in the world”, because there are so many contenders, and for so many reasons. I know humans love superlatives, and like being able to comfortably put a label on places, but, hell’s bells, I’ve heard “the most polluted city in the world” for plenty of other places, including

            Beijing
            Urumqi
            Kashgar (wut?)
            Harbin
            random one-horse towns around China

            … and various others. Really, it would make hella lot more sense for places to be categorised into “top tier polluted cities” “second tier polluted cities”, and so on.

          • YourSupremeCommander

            Who gave you this foul potty mouth? I know human and squirrel hybrids tend to have such foul potty mouths.

          • Aorigele

            oh sorry. Did your mother tell you that when you were a kid? Was she angry at your father often?

          • YourSupremeCommander

            na, i was just trying to keep your white trash sydrome from spreading into other countries and planets that’s all, carry on.

          • Aorigele

            oh sorry. Your comment might actually be kind of cool………….if i was white, which i’m not. jackass.

          • YourSupremeCommander

            Oh you are not asian, not white, you must be black or Mexican then? How are your pants hanging today son? Down by the ankles? LMFAO.

          • Aorigele

            idiots love innuendo. who said I’m not asian? Mongolia is in asia last time I checked but I’m not in Mongolia now. Don’t let my English catch your little peabrain off guard and keep LYFAO for your own sake because at the end of the day that’s all you’ve got–a laugh and a lost ass.

          • linette lee

            So are you a retard Mongolian?

            Mongolians they were barbarians. They invaded China back in 1279 because they needed the wealth of Chinese. So in another word they were thieves using military force and barbaric violence to steal from other people.

            http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2e/97/65/2e9765fd78f8adcbe404df20b45450b9.jpg

          • Silence

            Most likely, sinch when Progressive Dubstep commented that Mongolia, sooner or later, will be a part of China, he exploded with tard rage.

          • Aorigele

            Mongolian yes, and from what I can see my english is better than yours, probably because we use an alphabetic script instead of modernized caveman characters like you chinese.

          • Silence

            Then you are an American-born Mongolian, not a Mongolia-born Mongolian. And have you seen the original Mongolian script before?

            No offense, Mr. Mongolian, but that word looked like a baby scribble which I can’t make sense of.

            And if you have seen Mongolian Cyrilic before, that one’s like an autistic person trying to write English

          • Aorigele

            so i guess all russians are autistic and trying to write English. I can write traditional Mongolian script you dope. And I was born in Mongolia.

          • Silence

            Then prove it, “Mongolian”.

          • Aorigele

            ok i still have my original mongolian passport and ill post pictures of it ASAP just for you. get a life

          • Wave_r1der

            Then please post it now.

          • Silence

            Then post it. Don’t write ASAP when it took more than a few seconds to post one.

            And FYI, I do have a life. Then why the flaming hell am I commenting on you?

          • Aorigele

            Ok let me go in my file cabinet and get it out and then scan it. And then waste another 10 minutes blacking out the name so you can see what I looked like when I was a kid. you’re a smart one aren’t you

          • Silence

            Can’t you just take a photo, and then edit out the important parts?

            yeah, 10 minutes of your lifetime wasted going through that just to try proving that you’re a Mongolian.

          • mr.wiener

            @aorigele:disqus and @disqus_RBYv3DVvq4:disqus
            Alright, we get it, you girls are both pretty.
            Now end this thread please as it is getting long and boring.

          • Silence

            Yeah, you’re right. I should. I’m tired of this hate. Honestly, I am fine with everyone (yes that includes Mongolians, you hear that @aorigele:disqus ?), until the moment you start spewing hate on my people.

          • linette lee

            oh..you can’t read Hanzi at all. No wonder you are mad. lol.

            Most Asia countries their languages borrowed Chinese characters and not Mongolian. Apparently Chinese literature has more influence. So stop bxtching.

            http://www.chinesetimeschool.com/Portals/2/cms/images/201210/634854639134190000.jpeg

          • Zappa Frank

            ‘Most Asia countries their languages borrowed Chinese characters and not Mongolian’? just korea and japan.. and both have their alphabet also…any else?

          • Kai

            Their own alphabets are relatively recent inventions as far as history is concerned. Off the top of my head and with regards to countries that still exist today, there’s Vietnam.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters#Adaptation_to_other_languages

            The main thing is that throughout history, there wasn’t always a “country” called China, but Chinese characters and language were indisputably widely used and influential in the evolution of languages in the entire Asian region.

            That said, I feel like this “conversation” is mostly people trading insults and effectively trolling each other.

          • linette lee

            effectively trolling. Like most cases in the court the lawyers are just trolling and bsing. Nothing to do with right or wrong. lol.

          • Zappa Frank

            Linette, I just asked a question, the problem is that 90% of what you write seems to be like Germandude says

          • Zappa Frank

            Chinese when say Asia think only about china, korea, japan and maybe Vietnam.. the truth is that Asia is a lot bigger than that.. and no, Chinese language apparently did not influenced the language of MOST Asian countries, just 3 or 4..

          • Vox-Populi

            But their culture does influence many parts of asia..

            Oh, and in regards to the Chinese Language influence, in my country, they did borrow some words for some objects, like “kue” in my country (it means cake), it’s taken from the Fujian word “kwe”.

          • Zappa Frank

            no doubt, but she said “Most Asia countries their languages borrowed Chinese characters” this is simply false.. Asia is from Ural mountains, Sinai peninsula, middle east, India, central Asia, south east Asia, Indonesia included… while here seems Chinese just think Asia is a lot smaller.
            I don’t doubt Chinese culture had a sort of influence even in south east asia, even if we can discuss if it is due to migration of people or due to imitation of culture.. but even in this case to say that it is in MOST Asian countries is not true.

          • Vox-Populi

            true that. So far, only Korea, Japan and Vietnam has the influence of the Chinese Character usage.

          • David

            I think it is more fair to say ‘Chinese Culture’ has influenced most of Asia as opposed to Chinese writing. Most of South East Asia for instance, had to pay tribute to the Chinese Emperors for long periods of time. Arab and Indian traders certainly have been doing business with China (either directly through the silk road or indirectly through Indonesia) for a thousand years. while it is wrong to say the history of China is the history of Asia, it is equally wrong to say China was not a major source of information, goods. culture and tradition that was experienced and often imitated all over Asia (like the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans were farther west) in earlier times.

          • Zappa Frank

            i don’t deny that China was a main actor in Asia, along with India and that their influence even reached the west (especially Indian influence) But only that sometime seem Chinese have a limited vision of Asia that include only china japan and korea…

          • David

            I agree with you on that point. The funny part is if you traveled back in time and ask the citizens of those empires to identify themselves, they would almost all tell you they were from such and such village or area and not part of an empire and certainly not Chinese. That is a relatively recent convention.

          • Rick in China

            I think it’s a silly point. A broader point would be cultures throughout history have constantly and will continually have influence _on each other_, so it is both silly to argue about how much influence one had on another or how much other countries may have had on each other, and this whole thread is pretty pointless.. no?

          • David

            But that is exactly what historians argue about lol You trying to put me out of business?

          • wnsk

            “Chinese when say Asia think only about china, korea, japan and maybe Vietnam.. the truth is that Asia is a lot bigger than that”

            LOL, whut? That’s really funny. How well do you know China/Chinese or even Asia/Asians to make such an outrageous statement as that?

            Everybody KNOWS that when China says Asia, they’re ONLY thinking about China.

            Because seriously, it takes a white guy to point that out how big Asia actually is, to actual Asians, right? I don’t know, Caucasians are just smart like that.

          • Zappa Frank

            apparently yes

          • wnsk

            lol, right.

            but you didn’t answer my first question. or are you choosing to conveniently ignore it? in which case, that’s all right.

          • Zappa Frank

            didn’t I? I replied the second question
            if you refer about the first question, I think is pretty obvious what Linette meant, even the reply of Kai was focused on japan, korea and Vietnam.
            I’ve seen the same many times on this blog and also talking with chinese. Maybe because conventionally in US or in English east Asians are just called Asians than many time people use the expression Asia while they just mean, usually, the east part of it…with some exception even the south-east.. but almost never the whole Asia.

          • wnsk

            OK, cool.

            So based off Linette and Kai, some ChinaSmack netizens, and some Chinese you spoke to…that makes you an expert on Chinese thinking.

            I’m Southeast Asian myself, but you know what? I trust what you’re saying because you say it with such authority I have no choice but to defer to your apparent expertise.

            Cheers.

          • Zappa Frank

            ok next time I’ll ask to any single Chinese…
            I don’t know when I will be able to report back because you know, it will take some times..

          • SOPPY

            There are plenty of Caucasians that know far more about Asia than some backwoods Chinese redneck trolling the internet, welcome to the real world turd.

            [Moderator] I’d appreciate it if you would moderate your tone. I’m not picking on you in particular in this regard ,but I thought I’d kill 2 birds with 1 stone and remind you that we have a policy of posting under just one name…Choose it and use it.

          • wnsk

            That may be so, but I doubt it’s Zappa Frank. And I know it’s certainly not you. Nor does Linette nor Kai come off as “some backwoods Chinese redneck.” The only one that comes across as being anything near that is you. Maybe you’d be more credible if you dispense with the juvenile name-calling, “Soppy.”

          • Zappa Frank

            ok ok ok i cannot say chinese person in general but just the ones i spoke with and apparently also kai and linette based on the post they posted..(however the chinese i spoke with are by far more than 2 hands…just to say, i actually live in shanghai).. i really don’t understand why you get so serious on something so irrelevant.. what did i say that annoyed you?
            i sincerely think that usually east asians when they say asia think just to japan korea and china, but obviously i will never be able to demostrate it since i cannot interview all east asians, nor the biggest part of them…however of course i also can be wrong.
            ps i-ve never judged kai or linette backwoods rednecks

          • wnsk

            Yeah well, you were wrong, is what I’m saying.

            Anyway, forget it. I’m sure you didn’t mean any harm by it, and I’m guilty of generalizing myself.

            Cheers, man.

          • Kai

            It isn’t just the Chinese, I’d wager that most people in the world think of East Asia (CJK) when they think of Asia. Yes, of course Asia is a lot bigger than that. Technically, if we went by landmass, Cyrillic Russian could win. Technically, Asia includes India and the Middle-East too. However, would I be grossly wrong in assuming most people think of East Asia and maybe Southeast Asia when thinking of “Asia” and “Asian”?

            If not, then that’s what I’m referring to here:

            Chinese characters and language were indisputably widely used and influential in the evolution of languages in the entire Asian region.

            To the extent that I’m inaccurate because Asia includes India and the Middle East as well as most of Russia, I apologize and please allow me this clarification.

            Please understand then that I wasn’t really defending linette’s assertion of “most Asia countries”, I was first responding to your comment about alphabets, premising that Asia wasn’t always organized into the countries we think of today, and defending linette’s point to the extent that it is defendable (see above emphasis). As supported in the link I offered:

            By dint of their widespread current use in China and Japan, and historic use throughout the Sinosphere, Chinese characters are among the most widely adopted writing systems in the world.

          • Zappa Frank

            Kai it may be that we have a different vision, in Italy, at least, when we say Asia (same word in Italian) we don’t mean the eastern part only, conventionally called ‘far east’. Anyway it is a small matter.
            Apparently most Asian countries speak and write a language that come from Indo-European or Turkic languages

          • Kai

            As long as we understood what each other meant, we’re all good. Cheers.

          • David

            Although just to be clear, modern Vietnam has used Roman letters for the last 50 years for their official alphabet (with tone marks added in). ; )

          • Vox-Populi

            He meant the Chu Nom and the Han Tu used long time ago.

          • David

            I suspect so but just wanted to be sure. : )

          • Kai

            Yeah, I know.

          • Aorigele

            dont forget to brush your teeth

          • linette lee

            And don’t forget to floss your teeth and use mouth rinse.

          • linette lee

            And you should know, Mongolians were classified as barbarians by the Chinese because of their violent behaviors. Lacking in culture and refinement. No wonder their arts and literature didn’t influence their neighbors the way China did. If given Mongolians military power, they will probably be another Japan. More invasion to steal from other people.

          • Aorigele

            Yeah a bunch of bullshit. I can’t count how many mongolian songs have been translated into Chinese and the Chinese claim them as their own. The Er hu musical instrument is even from mongolia.

          • linette lee

            ER Hu is from Mongolia? Chinese or any countries they all have their own version of string instruments. Chinese must have like hundreds of different ones. Don’t be silly now.
            So can I say you got it from India. lol.

            Which songs were translated from Mongolian? I am very curious. Never heard of it. Most KTV songs are written by Taiwanese and Hong Kong song writers like Jay Chou or JJ Lin etc etc. Chinese has lots of singers who are composers.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ei1PUmDz98

          • linette lee

            By the way, guess which group of barbarian the Great Wall was built to keep out of China.

          • Arendelle

            Uhh… that Cyrilic alphabets you are using were not invented by your people, unlike the Korean, Chinese, and Japanese so I wonder if it is a matter to feel pride of. Then should people from Vietnam or Turkey feel superiority too? Plus, I don’t find just using language that now borrows phonetic writing system has correlation with your English skills.

          • Aorigele

            yeah, that’s me in the picture

          • linette lee

            hahahahaha….lol.

          • Silence

            Well, you looked pretty ugly.

          • Zappa Frank

            but really strong

          • Silence

            doesn’t really look like the type of a smart guy though.

          • xiaode

            but back in these days they were quite clever and quite strong barbarians… they invaded and controlled whole China with an army of less then 200.000 men!

          • linette lee

            I don’t think you have any knowledge about the Island of Hong KOng. It’s okay. It’s a small Island so it’s not that important to other countries. But I just want to call you dumb because you made me do so much explaining.
            ok….here. There was no Hong Kong in the earlier time. Hong Kong was just an island. The Chinese people from all over China traveled to HK for business and trading. Some were exiled from China. Many were also fishermen and pirates from China by the sea. They docked Hk(fragrant habour) the land without laws. So people from HK is a big mixture of all kinds of people with different background. They adapted Cantonese dialect because that’s the closest part from mainland China Canton. The British came in and took it as colony and then English was used along with Cantonese. Now went back under Beijing power and Mandarin is used also. Right now Hk still has their own HK gov’t with it’s own laws and regulations so it’s almost like a small country. Hk is very unique because the Hkese are not all Chinese but many are mixed like UK, India, Vietnam, Thai, etc etc. The Indians or middle east people you see in HK are Hkese. Don’t try to call them anything else. They get mad.

          • xiaode

            ? (you got the wrong guy? no prob. :-) )

          • Arendelle

            You are Hongkonger and did you know that your region was also classified as 南蠻 in early times? I am Korean and since Korea experienced invasion from Mongolia, I feel similar feelings. I find it very ironic that you display intense Sinocentrism at the same time you have expressed deep contempt toward China proper, whose people had led the civilization, though.

          • linette lee

            I don’t think you have any knowledge about the Island of Hong KOng. It’s okay. It’s a small Island so it’s not that important to other countries. But I just want to call you dumb because you made me do so much explaining.

            ok….here. There was no Hong Kong in the earlier time. Hong Kong was just an island. The Chinese people from all over China traveled to HK for business and trading. Some were exiled from China. Many were also fishermen and pirates from China by the sea. They docked Hk(fragrant habour) the land without laws. So people from HK is a big mixture of all kinds of people with different background. They adapted Cantonese dialect because that’s the closest part from mainland China Canton. The British came in and took it as colony and then English was used along with Cantonese. Now went back under Beijing power and Mandarin is used also. Right now Hk still has their own HK gov’t with it’s own laws and regulations so it’s almost like a small country. Hk is very unique because the Hkese are not all Chinese but many are mixed like UK, India, Vietnam, Thai, etc etc. The Indians or middle east people you see in HK are Hkese. Don’t try to call them anything else. They get mad.

          • Luong the Viet

            And chinese are the worst barbaric savages because they always invade Vietnam (only to lose all the time) and steal Vietnamese inventions to claim them as their own. Sad…

          • Progressive Dubstep

            slant eyed racially inferior slime? why hello there
            what about you? what are you?

          • Insomnicide

            First you insult the Han Chinese for trying to militarily take Mongolia then you insult the Han Chinese for not resorting to military strikes to take Taiwan and Diaoyu islands?

            Isn’t this very hypocritical?

          • Aorigele

            it stating facts is insulting, then maybe the internet needs to be controlled so that no one states facts. Tv and periodicals too. Can you imagine a country where no real facts are stated and everything that is said or broadcasted is free of facts and insulting criticisms toward the ruling eilte? Oh wait, I think there is a country like that! calling people hypocrites is a sport for the naive.

          • lacompacida

            What does facts have anything to do with what Chinese people said ? Once they open their mouth, facts disappear. And that’s a compliment to Chinese, not an insult.

          • Kai

            Your petty ad hominem to fact ratio was like 10 to 1. Demogoguery is not simply stating facts. You’re like the raving jihadist who would actually get some sympathy if he stopped calling for American heads to roll.

          • lacompacida

            It is not hypocritical, just like PRC supports Russia’s move to push Crimea to conduct a self determination referendum, and PRC forbid Tibet and Uighurs to do the same.

          • ptptp

            and threaten Taiwan with annihilation if it held a referendum.

          • Alex Dương

            Dude obviously has some issues.

          • comradewang

            Why you so mad bro?

          • Vox-Populi

            He got ‘roids in his system I guess.

          • Reflect

            Oh yeah the nazis really hated the Chinese, that’s why Hitler’s top advisors wanted an alliance with China rather than Japan. That’s also why the top Nazi official in China risked his life to save two hundred thousand Chinese during the Nanjing massacre by the Japanese.

            Uneducated slime like you are the ones who should be stomped.

          • Aorigele

            What a joke. The nazis looked at anyone not white as inferior. Croats, Czechs, Poles, Russians, Serbs, Ukranians were all classified as “subhumans”. Hitler’s top advisors? Do you understand history? Most of those guys were of the old guard, German millitary brass, who were thinking strategically and in the long term, who were not nazis like Heinrich Himmler who would definitely stomp your Chinese brains in.

            I like your childish logic though, of producing 2 historical facts and trying to use them to prove that nazis loved chinamen and asians.

            The top german official in China, John Rabe wasn’t even a Nazi you jackass. He was a german businessman and was chosen for the job because of his experience in China. What you watched that movie nanjing nanjing, saw the his swatstika armband and classify him as a nazi? You believe everything you see on tv don’t you, you naive little incompetent.

            Looks like you’re the uneducated slime.

          • Germandude

            Man, no offense, but you are pretty wrong.

            Tibet was supposed to be the spring of “Aryans”.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahnenerbe

            And talking about

            The nazis looked at anyone not white as inferior. Croats, Czechs, Poles, Russians, Serbs, Ukranians were all classified as “subhumans”

            is also pretty wrong. Not nationality mattered in their sick views but race (and the list of countries here is white, no?). Or how do you explain that the SS was the most international army ever fielded in history with Germans making up approx. 45% of the forces while 55% of them were non-Germans?

            How come Croats, Czechs, Serbs and even Ukrainians were allowed fielding their own units under the banner of SS?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS_foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts

            While I think many of your comments here are interesting, you are pretty wrong on this and @Reflect:disqus has a point. And your justification/argumenting based on race makes you less credible. At least in my eyes.

          • Germandude

            PS also funny to see how this discussion came along. Topic of the article: “Netizens compare…” @Premature Dumbass types a one-liner, you @aorigele:disqus going on a rant (with some interesting points, I admit), pointing out the retarded Avatar of Dumbass and @Reflect throwing in the Nazis. And here we are discussing about sth that we all can agree on being rubbish for the simple-minded Nationalistic/Racist idiots.

            So, my question is: Who do you think will win this year’s world cup?

          • Wave_R1der

            I am honestly confused why Aorigele’s comments gets many likes despite the obvious blind racism and hatred making up most of the content rather than opinions and reasons.

          • Kai

            Progressive Dubstep trolled and @aorigele:disqus fed him. The upvotes unfortunately give you an idea of how easily people’s petty prejudices get the better of their reason.

          • Vox-Populi

            We’re gonna need this:

          • wnsk

            There will always be haters and foolish people, no real surprise there.

            What I’m confused about is why the moderators are tolerating it and allowing all his silly racist slurs. He’s no different from Progressive Dubstep; in fact, I’d say he’s worse.

          • Vox-Populi

            Probably he wanted to see the fun coming out from it?

          • Germandude

            Some people just want to see the world burn…

          • Vox-Populi

            It was fun watching it burn, until they got burn themselves too.

          • Aorigele

            probably because you’ve learned everything you know just from the video games you play

          • SzMach5

            I say Germany will win the world cup this year :]

          • Germandude

            Nah. I’d bet on Brazil or Argentina.

          • Zappa Frank

            sincerely I remember Nazi regarded Slaves as soma beast and not as real humans.. so much that their regards against Russians soldiers captured was even less than the regards they had for Jewish… they may have used some as cannon folders but I have doubts they really thought of them as equal. Nazi were ally with Italian, but even in that case for sure they never thought we were equal on the race purity…
            am I wrong?…
            the spring of ‘aryans’ or late indoeuropeans is still a funny issue, to begin with who were those fantomatic indoeuropeans..? I’ve seen a lot of papers and conclusions are always different.

          • Germandude

            @zappa_frank:disqus I was more refering to the error of @aorigele:disqus mixing race with nationality. Or are e.g. Croats a race of their own?

            This shit is so sick, I bet the Nazis were confused about their idiocy themselves. While race-wise, Italians were considered equal, it was much more the poor performance of the Italian army that lead into the view of Italian being un-equal.

            Basing anything on race rather than education and culture is pretty foolish if you ask me. If Hitler and his sort were right about pure-blood being some kind of superhuman, how come they were so disturbed by disabled people being pure-blood? How come homosexuality was in their eyes a “gene-defect”, while surely, there were pure “Aryan” homosexuals.

            As always, they just painted a picture that fitted/backed up their views. Any kind of contrast in it was erazed in order to keep the picture clear.

            Now question (not to you directly, but general audience), in which countries of the world is belonging to one specific race supposed to be a highlight for the masses to recognize friend from foe? And also, is it a coincidence that in those countries, history is repeating itself?

          • Aorigele

            Military necessity is quite different from racial policy. If my clarity on the subject makes me less in your eyes then good. The Ukranians welcomed the nazis as saviors until they started oppressing and slaughtering them en masse.

            “The nazis looked at anyone not white as inferior. Croats, Czechs, Poles,
            Russians, Serbs, Ukranians were all classified as “subhumans””
            This is a quote is from the book A Concise History of Nazi Germany by Joseph Bendersky. Whether or not such peoples were recruited militarily is irrelevent to Nazi doctrine concerning their race.

            We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German
            worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than
            the population here.
            — Erich Koch, March 5th 1943

            Erich Kock was the reichskommisar in the Ukraine.

            I don’t see how any of this is historically “wrong” as you say.

          • Aorigele

            Reflect might have had a point if he were in a primary school classroom.

          • cantonizi

            OMG you are so great, how can we expats and most of the Chinese people of China thank you enough for changing the slow brain reject whites from staying away from China?
            Betcha many Indians and Afrikans will think that China is worst than where they are now and will stay away too.
            Less do lunch, my treat.

          • Kai

            Wow, the number of people who felt some valid resentment justified upvoting this is why we can’t have nice things in the world…

            …and why we have things like Fox News, the Daily Mail, and certain People’s Daily editorials.

          • Vox-Populi

            The lesser the people are educated, the more ignorant they would be. But even then, educated ones can be fooled to believing propaganda pieces too..

          • David

            See what you just did, you bad mouthed Fox News. That is not fair, but I will not be insulted by it. I will just assume you don’t watch it on a regular basis and therefore do not know it well. : )

          • Kai

            No, I don’t watch Fox News but I don’t really watch any American TV news in general. I think however that Fox News has been rightfully castigated for many things, including demogoguery. I’m not going to say it is “always” guilty of the things it is criticized for, but there are more than enough valid and persuasive examples and arguments supporting some of the popular criticism and derision. It would of course be unfair to damn the whole lot of them (my sister works for Fox).

            That said, how mean of you to defend Fox but not the Daily Mail! ;)

          • David

            lol well, while I occasionally see the daily mail on-line I am not familiar enough with it, but until I got to China I watched 5-6 hours of news each day (about 4 of that on Fox) for the last 15 years. While their analyst can certainly be biased (like Hannety, which I don’t watch) I find their straight up news to be the fairest around. But just my opinion. : )

          • fsun

            LOL

          • calmthefuckdown

            Take a chill pill. All you’ve done with your little hate speech is show how barbaric mongolians really are. Great for you :D

          • Joe Buck

            All Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc) take notes. More often than not you will always be seen as “whose real bearers would stomp your brains in just for being slant-eyed racially inferior slime” by people like Aorigele.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            It’s you who needs to take notes. Aorigele said that Nazis (the “real bearers” of Progressive Dubstep’s Nazi avatar) would see Progressive Dubstep as such.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            In fact, Aorigele is himself Asian, so you really couldn’t have been more off-base in your interpretation of his comment.

        • Butsu

          Maybe, maybe not. However, the Mongolians I have spoken to (and I know they don’t represent every mongolian) have no interest whatsoever in joining China.

          • wnsk

            If China wanted Mongolia, you can be damn sure they’d have Mongolia by now. Fact is, they don’t want Mongolia. And why would they? Anybody can see that it is more of a liability than an asset.

            All the Chinese netizens/armchair-politicians who say otherwise (and I don’t think there are many) are just blinded by stupid nationalism.

          • Silence

            I am a Chinese (from Indonesia though), and I agree with ya. The people who say so are just crazy.

            Mongolia is in fact, granted independance by PRC itself, either which the Chinese Netizens are in denial about it, or they simply don’t know.

            If I were Xi Jinping, I would see the situation in Mongolia. If people do no want reunification, so let it be. If they want to, then I’ll discuss with the Mongolians.

          • Rick in China

            I don’t think you get it – Mongolia being independent is a benefit for China in many ways – for example having a big relatively poor / barren land mass between itself and Russia. The less border with world powers the better!

          • Vox-Populi

            Rick, my post doesn’t show that I wanted Mongolia join back to China badly. If you don’t get it, I am giving a fair view on the stance of Mongolia.

          • comradewang

            Thank you! I want to hand you a cookie.

        • lacompacida

          Just like the mainland will return to ROC rule. Or Japanese rule.

        • linette lee

          I once mistaken a Mongolian girl as Chinese girl and I was speaking Mandarin to her. She was offended.
          She told me she is Mongolian and doesn’t understand Mandarin. So I started speaking Cantonese to her she got offended too. hahahhaa…..lol. She told me they have their own language. So funny. People get offended when mistaken as Chinese or if we speak Chinese to them. Nobody gets offended when I speak English to them. Next time I will speak Spanish to her. lol.
          China maybe the second strongest nation in the world in terms of economy and military power, but it has no soft power at all. It is because 2/3 of their own people still live in sub standard living condition. Their gov’t system is horrible. If China truly want to become world super power they have to fix their internal affair. At this point most people rather be mistaken as Greek(broken economy) than as Chinese. lol.

          • Germandude

            Hahaha, now THAT was really funny linette. So you mistook a Mongolian girl as Chinese girl and tried speaking Mandarin to her? And she was offended because she couldn’t speak it and mentioned that she is from Mongolia?
            AND THEN, you spoke Cantonese with her, because, well, that’s the logical way to do, right?

            HAHAHAHAHA, Did you check out where Hong Kong is on the globe? Did you check out where Mongolia is on the globe? And did you check out where your language (Cantonese) is spoken within China?
            I wonder how you made it to the US…Do they speak Cantonese there?

            You have no clue about Hong Kong, China, the US, yet, you don’t mind smearing your brainfarts here day in day out, not realizing that you are a joke on legs that has no clue. I bet it must be an achievement for you to manage taking a dumb in the toilet and daddy padding your shoulders for it.

          • linette lee

            You don’t understand sarcasm right? She had this offended look on her face so I jokingly spoke Cantonese just to tease her. I never spoke to her again afterward in the building. I don’t have time for strange people. lol.

            And you be quiet. Go get drunk drinking beer and take a piss. duh.

          • Gordon Gogodancer

            :D i’ll keep that last line in mind. Could be useful.

          • Rick in China

            “I don’t have time for strange people”

            Um, you walk up to a stranger and speak mandarin to them, they say “I’m not Chinese, I’m from Mongolia” – you start speaking Cantonese thinking you’re being super clever, then walk away never speaking to the person again.

            WHO is the strange one here, exactly? You’re a very weird person, and you prove it with many of your posts.

          • Yes!

            Mongolians see themselves as a superior race to Hans. And they consider themselves Europeans, not Asians. The last time I checked, Ulan Bator had a East European look and feel about it.

          • Aorigele

            we don’t consider ourselves europeans. That’s retarded

          • Zappa Frank

            that was because buildt by russians i guess. i doubt mongolians consider themselves europeans.. about superior races, seems that apparently in asia anyone consider himself a superior race..

          • Vox-Populi

            Sarcasm or not, that wasn’t a good idea..

        • Angie Mac

          You live in a fascinating world.

      • cantonizi

        Even Russia kick them out.
        Only the US wants them or their land for US military bases.

      • lol

        never gonna happen. Thay hate chinese like no other country.

    • B*tches, Leave

      … and the people in Mongolia would rather die then be under Chinese rule. Mongolians can enter China without a visa for a month anyways.

      The Chinese have the nerve to call Mongolia “Outer Mongolia” as to indicate that it’s still a part of China. Mongolia has strong economic allies now, so don’t think they can be pushed around now. Mongolians are a lazy folk, so they’re just selling what they have to foreigners and only take a small percentage from the profit. In the capital, Ulan-Bator, there are big districts that were built by other countries (UK, South Korea, US, Ireland, Russia, etc).

      Not a lot know that, but Mongolia had also a play in the second World War. Soviet general Zhukov became famous for his tank maneuvers against the Japanese, when they tried to invade Mongolia. He then used his tested tactics at the German front. By that time he was revered in Mongolia and they even built a monument (the first one and one of the few who’s still standing) and a museum in his name. Later they even named the Russian district – Zhukovo District.

      One Chinese told me an amusing joke (but when I told it to Mongolians, every time I got an angry response rather than a laugh):
      “We can prove that Genghis Khan was Chinese! It is said that he was born in Inner Mongolia. Inner Mongolia belongs to China, so although his ethnicity was Mongolian, his nationality was Chinese.”

    • Progressive Dubstep

      Mogolia is part of China
      If you Brits can own the frankland then we can own Mogolia it is simple as that also it belong to for at least 200 years above
      if you look at how long we have interact with Mogolians and its terr and compare with America then we have much stronger argument. get the hell out of China if you don’t agree the Chinese claim. you imperlist self rightoues moron

      • mr.wiener

        ” i don’t call people moron without reference anything they said.”

        I believe you posted this the other day….well apparently you just called someone a moron without referencing everything they said.

        I don’t know what your problem is, but I’m asking you for the last time to play nice or I will have to moderate your comments, and perhaps your right to post them here.
        You complain others are stalking you , then you go and do the same. You offer offer racist over generalizations that seem to be more like flame bait ,than serious discussion:

        “+1 agree with you 100% white people tends to hypocritcal all the time and you are generally unpleasant to other people”

        And you are also coming up with personal insults where they are not needed.
        Stop this now.

        • Progressive Dubstep

          no worries, you gotta write more examples in the faq

          • mr.wiener

            Don’t bullshit a bullshitter “mate”. You are skating on very thin ice.

        • Alex Dương

          You seem to be harsher on Progressive Dubstep than you are for Aorigele.

          • mr.wiener

            I gave PD the benefit of the doubt for at least a week. The Angry Mongolian has used up all his credit in one day. We’ll see what tomorrow brings, Maybe he’ll have taken his Ritalin.

      • Aorigele

        It’s Falklands not “the frankland” you dumb swine, and by your logic China under the Han race can actually be considered mongolia, as the Han never conquered mongolia, only the Manchu’s did. And even the Manchu QIng Dynasty set up policies not to let “Chinese” immigrate into mongolian lands. So since mongolians have interacted with “Chinese” through conquest and rape more than any other country over a period of a 1900 years, then by your own logic we have a stronger argument to take Yuan dynasty lands back. If you don’t agree, then give the summer palace back and get the fuck out of Mongolian Yuan Dynasty lands, you imperialist self-righteous moron.

        • Progressive Dubstep

          first of all i’m not a imperalist
          why should i follow ur logic mr.uk
          i could be manchu hence what are trying to say here
          we did expand our land but we are not like you lots we don’t pretend to be workers of god then commit genocide on them. and also buddy get the hell out my land. you don’t belong there.

          • Aorigele

            your an imperialist commie.Just ask south Korea how imperialist you bastards are, propping up those fat bastards in the north. You hide your imperialism with psuedo history and think you have some righteous claim to other people’s shit. But no one needs to worry because at the end of the day your people just do shit like starve a couple million of their own people to death in events like the great leap forward and beat each other to death in cultural revolutions and charge American machine gun nests with a 1 to 10 ratio of rifles to men, and then glorify it all and the man that made it all possible is still a hero in your country! I wish your race of retards good luck with taking taiwan back.

          • SzMach5

            “your race of retards”
            I agree with your points about the Chinese government’s fallacies in the first half or so of your comment but even though this is the Internet, let’s try to turn down the hostile racist comments.

        • Progressive Dubstep

          mate, we have righteous claim over mogolia oky? what you know is surface facts. BOSSS

          • mr.wiener

            How about outlining these facts?….

          • Aorigele

            righteous? self-righteous? I think the Bogd Khan said it best when he told Yuan Shikai, “I established my own state before you, the Mongols and Chinese have different origin, our languages and scripts are different.You’re not the Manchu’s descents, so how can you think China is the Manchu’s successor?” you have shit for a claim you commie filth.

          • mr.wiener

            Can we dial the hostility down from “11” please.
            Besides which the person you are trying to talk to has left the building

          • Germandude

            You guys should’ve banned him long before alone for the Avatar already. Just sayin’

          • mr.wiener

            What can I say?, I’m a limp-dick liberal at heart.

      • Jahar

        With that reasoning, so many countries would have legitimate claims on other countries, for example Italy due to the Roman Empire, Greece, Egypt, Spain, etc… Even Japan would have a reasonable claim to Dongbei.

        • Progressive Dubstep

          东北/? how many years did have under their sleve?

          • Jahar

            pre-prc, longer than china…. which, of course, never had mongolia. and are we now choosing a length of time you must possess land for before you have an claim for… how long? I’m gonna guess the length for both time periods would be the exact amount that would favour the PRC claim in any given situation, right?

            PS sorry if this isnt very clear, I’m in a hurry.

        • Progressive Dubstep

          yes with the same logic there US UK commit more sinful sins to the colony than china ever did.

          • Eurotrash

            That’s a good point.

          • Zappa Frank

            a good point? it’s not even a point… it is a childish reply . it does not have any relation with what jahar said..

          • Jahar

            They’ve also probably made more hamburgers, but that’s hardly relevant.

      • lacompacida

        China is part of Mongolia. At least Mongolian people fought and conquered the land. Qing (Manchurians) fought and dominated Mongolia, but not Hans. So Hans should take their dirty hands off Mongolia.

    • Insomnicide

      If the PRC is ousted, then the ROC will come back. The ROC will forcefully annex Mongolia because they weren’t communist buddies with them.

      Also, Mongolians ruled the Yuan dynasty. Chinese ruled the ROC controlled Mongolia. Which was much more recent.

      • Rick in China

        First paragraph is based on nothing, even the speculation is nonsense, it’ll never happen like that, in any way shape or form.

        Second paragraph, also in reference to something someone else posted, I would argue that. Mongolians as we know them today – perhaps, sure, just the Yuan dynasty, however – the Khitans ruled Liao under Great Khan Abaoji for more than 200 years, I’d argue that *counts*, given the likelihood that their etymology is the same.

        • Insomnicide

          So if you’re saying the ROC won’t return then why make the idiotic point?

          The Liao? Under the Khitans? 1. They were not Mongolians. 2. They were not ruling over China. So what’s your point?

          • Rick in China

            “The Khitan people (Chinese: 契丹; pinyin: Qìdān; Persian: ختن‎, Khitan), or Khitai, Kitan, or Kidan, were a nomadic Mongolic people, originally from Mongolia” GFY

            They didn’t directly rule ALL of China, you’re right, but the parts they didn’t directly rule were under their rule by means of tribute, that’s pretty much ruling over China, no? That’s my point.

          • Insomnicide

            Mongolic does not mean modern day ethnic Mongols. Several different ethnicities have inhabited the area known as Mongolia. Only one or two are considered Mongols today.

            And if tributary counts as ruling, then theoretically China ruled all of Asia, Rome ruled all of Europe and half of Africa. So no, it does not count as ruler-ship because taking tributes doesn’t mean you’ve installed a government. It does not count.

          • Eidolon

            The Khitans weren’t Mongolians, and their descendants are not, primarily, present day Mongolians. Indeed, were we to make the argument that descendants get to claim their ancestors’ territories, then the fact that the Khitans, a large percentage of the Xianbei, and a larger percentage of the Jurchens all assimilated into Han give Han Chinese logical claim over both Mongolia and Manchuria.

            Of course, that’s not how territorial claims work, but then the way territorial claims work, however they worked, have never been satisfactory to those with the will to revise territorial borders. Whether that’s the Mongols, the Chinese, the British, the Americans, the Russians, in the end they all come up with an excuse for why it’s okay for them to do what they’re going to do.

            Bottom line: you’re arguing over a concept – territorial ownership – that in world history has never had an agreed upon consensus. The way we distribute land and resources, that’s never been pretty and it’s never been gentlemanly. Rather, the standard was the law of the jungle and remains so today judging by what Russia just did. I’m sure that, were China allowed to deport the Mongols of Inner Mongolia to Outer Mongolia and then move in additional Chinese to make up for the loss, the way the Russians did in Crimea, then a referendum would also result in overwhelming support for PRC membership.

      • lacompacida

        ROC may not come back when PRC/CCP falls. This is best determined by a free, fair, and equal election by people of China, just like the way in Crimea CCP supported.

    • SonofSpermcube

      I wonder how they’d feel about giving half of Dongbei back to the Koreans.

    • lacompacida

      Fully support CCP’s decision to support Russia in Russia’s way of grabbing Crimea. Self determination by locals through referendum is the right way for Russians in Crimea, and all other minorities of the world.

      • Alex Dương

        You don’t seem very bright. Elsewhere, you say that you support similar referendums in China’s border regions. Inner Mongolia is majority Han and Xinjiang isn’t majority Uyghur, so those referendums would probably not lead to independence.

        And if you tell me that the referendums only apply to the ethnic minorities in those regions, gee, I didn’t know Russians were a minority in Crimea. Oh, that’s because they aren’t a minority there, and they aren’t even native to the region.

        • Paulos

          Hi Alex. You’re right of course if we assume these referendums were to be limited to one per autonomous region, but if the referendums were carried out on the prefectural level, we’d likely see very different results.

          I’d speculate that Western Xinjiang would opt to form something akin to another East Turkestan Republic, while parts of Inner Mongolia like Xing’an would be a coin toss on whether or not to be incorporated into Democratic Mongolia.

          All of this of course is pure conjecture as the likelihood of any type of independence referendum within the context of the present PRC is less than impossible, so let’s not get too worked up about it.

    • Alex Dương

      > What I dislike most…

      So is this why you left Canada for China?

    • simon

      hypocrites are everywhere, you can use this same argument and apply it in pretty much most countries that had indigenous populations to begin with, amirite

    • Xia

      The only thing that made sense in history is that territory is a man-made concept that people fought over in wars.

  • བོད་

    The Mongolian’s hatred for the Chinese is incommensurable.

    • Jobjed

      They can rest assured the feeling is mutual.

      • mr.wiener

        One is hatred, the other is contempt.

    • Insomnicide

      Why, because Genghis Khan and his buddies killed sixty million of them?

      • lacompacida

        Because of the disregard and destruction of the Mongolian culture and wishes of the Mongolian people by Beijing.

        • fsun

          haha sucks for Mongolia! Maybe a culture that committed the worst genocides in the history of the world should be disregarded and destroyed!

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  • Progressive Dubstep

    hh

  • SonofSpermcube

    “Russia really did cross the line, supporting regions in other
    countries to hold referendums is wrong, if the UN approves, then Tibet,
    Xingjiang, and Inner-Mongolia would all declare independence.”

    Inner Mongolia, really?

    Like the whole thing or just western parts?

    • lacompacida

      Which, if any part, of Inner Mongolia should join Mongolia, or independent, or joining Russia, or returning to Japanese rule, should be determined by the local residents, not outsiders.

  • Mike

    Man, Russia frightens me (maybe that’s how my parents felt during USSR?). Putin surely knows how to get things done. Hell, he’s KGB old school! Once during one of his many televised interviews, a woman was asking him a question, but the sound was off. The cool thing was that Putin read her lips and guessed what her words were! He speaks German and understands English. Sure his publicity stunts are tacky and just for show off, but it works (better than Obama eating ice cream and playing golf). Damn it, we need to assassinate him or make some kind of scheme (but maybe that is what that Ukraine thing is about?) … I mean, sure Obama is cool by getting the Nobel peace price while having two wars and supporting a rebellion in Libya, while Putin, who protected Russian citizens in Georgia, stopped military intervention in Syria and trying to peacefully clear the situation in Ukraine is called a Nazi … man, politics are a weird thing, but luckily we live in the Age of Entertainment, so we can get distracted with the less important things like what’s up with Bieber and who wears what at the Oscars :))

    • Zappa Frank

      putin was nominated as a potential candidate for the nobel prize..
      however what you said, that are different point of view, is really true..it is only up to who are you with and you can pass from being a terrorist to be a hero..

  • Misiooo

    Manchuria is part of Russia too. Now, let Tibetan and Uygurs have a vote and I’d love to see Japan return to Shanghai to protect Japanese minority in Hongqiao and make my life in China normal.

    • Vox-Populi

      You want to know a simple solution?

      GTFO of Hongqiao, China back to your beloved country, Japan.

  • Tamil Tiger

    The referendum is legal, as Putin suggested. You need to respect the majority. Therefore I suggest Hong Kong, Taiwan, Xin Jiang and Tibet to do the same so that they can be independent. Crimea is good example for them.

    • lacompacida

      Not just Hong Kong, Taiwan, Xinjian, Tibet, but all other minorities and regions, must determine their allegiance through referendum. Zhongnanhai should have a referendum too.

    • Alex Dương

      The Uyghurs aren’t a majority in Xinjiang; they are actually outnumbered by the Han and the Hui combined. Now, if you tell me that the referendum in Xinjiang only applies to the Uyghurs, well, I wasn’t aware that Russians were native to Crimea.

      • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

        You need to look who makes up most of Crimea. They are majority Russian speakers.

        • Alex Dương

          And do you know why that is?

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            Yes. Do you?

          • Alex Dương

            Yes. Crimean Tatars were forcibly deported, and Russians emigrated in.

            http://www.businessinsider.com.au/crimea-demographics-chart-2014-3

            http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53259cee69beddd24c5495fa/image.jpg

            Really, I find it immensely amusing that so many of you who condemn the Han for doing this in Xinjiang have no problems that the Russians did the same in Crimea.

          • Zappa Frank

            I think there is no one that support what Stalin did .. but on chinasmack should we talk about what happened in Russia during the ’30s or about what happen in China now?
            Anyway the definition of native of an area is always relative and in the end highly arguable..

          • Alex Dương

            But a main reason Crimea is “majority Russian” today is because of what Stalin did many decades ago. Again, it just seems very inconsistent for you to tell me that I should not bring up the Crimean Tatars now, whereas two weeks ago, you were decrying “Han colonization” in Xinjiang.

          • Zappa Frank

            the difference is that Han are colonizing and Russian had colonized.. in the ’30s. Tartars are not in Crimea anymore (just 12%) and uyghurs are still in Xinjiang. Both are wrong, one happened and one is going on.. However I never meant to say that xinjiang should get indipendent
            About being native of a region I can even argue that nor Uyghur nor Han are native of Xinjiang and nor Russians nor Tartars are native of Crimea.. but this point is irrelevant..
            p.s. besides by your statistic we can see tartars were not a majority from the end of 1800 at least..already outnumbered by Russians/Ukrainians.. while as said in xinjiang han were just 7% or something before around the ’50s

          • Alex Dương

            This is a very bad argument: you are basically saying that if the Chinese stay in Xinjiang as long as the Russians have stayed in Crimea, you will accept it. But as I said, the Chinese have been in Xinjiang as long as the Russians have been in Crimea. In the 1800s, Xinjiang was already 30% Han. The percentage has fluctuated widely, but the situation today is similar to how it was when Xinjiang first became Chinese.

            http://www.eastwestcenter.org/fileadmin/stored/pdfs/EWCWwp001.pdf

            I’ll say it again: you are being very inconsistent here.

          • Zappa Frank

            30% is different from being a majority like Russians were in Crimea even in 1800. And is pointless to come out with 1800 population figures if Han were just less than 10% before the ’50s…Russians never left Crimea to come back later saying we forgot we own this territory, but now we are back..
            what I say is that what happened is no more changeable. As said it is not that I agree with what happen to Tartars, but it happened from the end of 1700… does it have any sense to complain about it now? What happen in xinjiang happen now..

          • Alex Dương

            Like I said, basically, you are saying that if the Chinese stay in Xinjiang for as long as the Russians have stayed in Crimea, you will accept the situation. That is not a good argument; you are not arguing from any common principles.

          • Zappa Frank

            If the Chinese stay in xinjiang for 100 years being all time the majority I think no one can do anything else than accept the situation..
            Sincerely I don’t understand your point.
            Else what should we do accept the claim of anyone who lived in that land before? maybe from the first inhabitants lived there?
            I think we can only criticize the present and has no sense talk about historical events happened centuries ago..

          • Alex Dương

            My point is that if you decry Chinese “colonization” in Xinjiang, to be consistent, you should not dismiss the Crimean Tatars in favor of the Russians in Crimea. You say we can only criticize “the present.” OK. Fifty years ago, in 1964, Xinjiang was 33% Han. So 100 years is too long for you but 50 years isn’t? Seems arbitrary to me.

          • Zappa Frank

            Russian are the majority in Crimea at least since the end of ‘800, Han are still not majority in Xinjiang..i think this makes a difference or not? Or you think is irrelevant? Russians have been 7% of Crimean population maybe in the ‘600, not 50 years ago, this does not make any difference?

            Would be absurd after such long time to claim the Crimea for the Tartars since not only they have been a minority but now most of them don’t even live there… while Xinjiang is still full of Uyghurs, and alone are still the biggest group, their claim may be not legitimate, but for sure would be more reasonable than an hypothetic claim of Tartars other Crimea.. (note, I said more reasonable, I did not say they are right or something)..

            100 years is arbitrary, yes, but I think a reasonable time. A claim of someone lived before 100 years ago in an area is indeed absurd…we have to set a limit, but even if we chose 50 years han were still not majority in xinjiang.. besides the situation of Xinjiang, if we want to keep on doing this compare with Crimea, is more like the situation of Crimea in the late ‘700 middle ‘800 than in the late ‘800..i mean Han are minority and mostly just arrived (just re-arrived)..

          • Alex Dương

            If this is how you and apparently others feel, then all China has to do is keep flooding their border regions with ethnic Hans. Give it another fifty years, and your grandchildren won’t have anything to complain about.

          • Zappa Frank

            I don’t have anything to complain about even now. Clearly in my opinion is a colonization, and I can understand if Uyghurs don’t like it..

          • Vox-Populi

            So are the Native Americans whose lands are stolen from them, Maoris who have been tricked to signing a treaty which would have their lands taken, etc.

            And if you’re wondering if Uyghurs don’t like the Chinese rule, do they hate the quality of life given to them by the Chinese? like high literacy rate, good healthcare, etc?

          • Zappa Frank

            yes so they are. the difference is that for them all this is happened and for uyghurs is happening..
            I don’t know what they like, i’m not a Uyghur and even if I were I would be only one Uyghur not the whole Uyghur population. But since there are separatism movements I guess is reasonably to say that some Uyghur do hate live under han..

          • Vox-Populi

            The best thing to do is just to take a trip to Xinjiang and experience it there.. if you take trips frequently to there, (or if you wish, stay there) for long enough, then you will see the true light of it. Otherwise, observation is never enough, since we can only jump to conclusions, not studying facts and conclude.

            While separatist movements does indicated disaffected people, note that the Uyghur separatists are made of fanatics and fundamentalists, and they are even supported by groups such as Al Qaeda. Some of the movements are even classified as terrrorists by the American Government.

          • Alex Dương

            Yes, I know that is your opinion. As I’ve said, I think that is inconsistent with the views you’ve expressed here that Crimea ought to be Russian, and it doesn’t matter how the Crimean Tatars feel because ethnic Russians outnumber them.

          • Zappa Frank

            Crimean Tartars do not exist anymore, the few tartars in Crimea are come back people.. this is the difference. Or you think that Tartars have the same rights of Uyghur to claim an independence?

          • Alex Dương

            My God, this is even worse. You’re implying that the only reason the PRC even has “problems” in Xinjiang and Tibet is because unlike the Soviets, it was never so brutal and cruel as to expel an entire ethnic group from their homeland. If you think Uyghurs have the right to claim independence, then I don’t see why the same wouldn’t be true for the Crimean Tatars.

          • Zappa Frank

            so you think that a population that had not been independent from 300 years ago, have not been majority from 200 years ago, than have been completely erased from that region 70 years ago and that now has a presence of 12% has the same right to ask for an independence (and throw away the other 88% of the present population because there are not areas with tartars majority) of Crimea as Uyghur? is that you think?

          • Eidolon

            What you’re saying, albeit indirectly because I do believe you had a cognitive dissonance moment when you saw that chart, is that what China OUGHT to have done is deport the Uyghurs and the Tibetans and repopulate Xinjiang and Tibet with Han Chinese back in the 50s, but now it’s too late because the world has moved on.

            Well, the problem with this is – the world hasn’t moved on. Obviously not, because Russia just took a huge chunk of Ukrainian territory without letting the Ukrainians vote whether they’re allowed to do it.

            Let me ask you this – wasn’t Crimea a legal territory of Ukraine? Yes? Then why weren’t Ukrainians consulted? Why did only Crimeans vote? Is it legal for another country to go to an ethnic township in the US and say – JOIN US! Screw the US!?

            The answer is no. Because it’d be a violation of sovereignty, which under international law trumps self-determination whenever the latter isn’t backed by a super power the UN doesn’t want to piss off.

            Fact is, self-determination for minorities has never been in the books in the US, and for that matter any country with a functioning, sovereign government capable of defending itself. The Ukrainians got screwed because their government is weak, inept, and trusted in the EU and US, who betrayed them when push came to shove. Now they pay for it.

      • Zappa Frank

        actually uyghurs and khazaki are the majority in xinjiang..
        Crimea is Russia at least from 1800, now please don’t come out with it was tartarian..

        • Alex Dương

          But you have to include the Kazakhs with the Uyghurs; otherwise, the Uyghurs alone do not form a majority in Xinjiang. Also, if you accept Russian claims to Crimea because it’s been Russian since “at least from 1800,” I’m amused that you seem to not accept Chinese claims to Xinjiang, which date back to 1758.

          Plus, weren’t you telling me last week how you think the Uyghurs are native to Xinjiang? Why did you so strongly argue for that while here, you are dismissing Crimean Tatars in favor of the Russians?

  • Taoran

    I really don’t see a problem with a part of an existing country holding a referendum to not be part of that country anymore. I see this as one of the basic rights in a democratic system. If a part of Ukraine wants to switch to Russia, let them. Maybe it will be better there, maybe not, but either way they brought it upon themselves.
    This is of course assuming that the decision really was taken democratically, meaning no fake votes/miscounted votes/illegal votes, and I think that’s where this gets complicated.

    • http://mykafkaesquelife.blogspot.com/ Taiwan Explorer

      How come Russia wasn’t so democratic when it came to Chechnya?

      • lacompacida

        What does territorial claims have anything to do with democracy ?

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

      I agree with your first point, but staying with Ukraine wasn’t even an option in the referendum. Crimeans had the choice to either join Russia now or become an “independent republic” to join Russia later. Moreover, those who didn’t want to join Russia and resented the presence of Russian troops occupying the peninsula largely boycotted the referendum.

  • hang

    Chinese talking about “stolen territory”.. ok yeah. How about the empire expansion that happened under Mao’s red armies?

    • Alex Dương

      Examples?

    • Vox-Populi

      Cool story bro.

  • lacompacida

    Strongly support referendum by residents for self determination of allegiance everywhere in the world. Strongly support interfering into internal affairs of nations by Russia and other countries.

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  • lacompacida

    Nanjing massacre was a dramatical play by the CCP.

  • MidniteOwl

    … They don’t need a referendum in Taiwan… It’s already independent. Lol

    • YourSupremeCommander

      not for long. lol.

  • Mighty曹

    If we act according to Putin’s excuse then China should send troops into all the Chinatowns throughout the world to free the Chinese speaking compatriots.

  • http://twitter.com/joexu Joe

    China abstaining in UN vote? Unheard of, I’m shocked and appalled

  • cantonizi

    China should just nuke Mongolia to hell and don’t let join the US or Canada.

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  • http://akarlin.com/ Anatoly Karlin

    A couple of points to be made:

    (1) Not at all comparable because Crimea is 58% ethnic Russian, and the vast majority of the Crimean population genuinely supports joining Russia. That would not be the case with China/Mongolia.

    (2) I do not see how this is at all relevant to Taiwan. Both China and Taiwan agree that they are one country; both are overwhelmingly populated by Han Chinese. The main dispute is over the form of government.

    (3) Chinese arguments from morality ring a bit hollow given their own “might is right” approach to maritime disputes. (Not that I judge them for it).

    (4) The risk of such referenda spreading to other Chinese areas is virtually completely zero because (a) Ethnic Chinese constitute over 90% of the population, and are a majority in all provinces bar Tibet – and even that will soon change; (b) The US, Russia, India, or any other power are hardly capable of sending in “polite people” to safeguard any such referendum, even if they were of a mind to do so.

    (5) Frankly, what these netizens fail to realize is that of all the parties to the Crimean Crisis, it is CHINA that gains the most. A Russia that is shunned and sanctioned by the West is a Russia that will have to hitch itself to China in terms of resource exports, economic ties/investment flows, military orientation, etc. If I was responsible for Chinese foreign policy, I would offer Russia full support so as to tempt it to overstretch itself, in the process severing West-Russia ties and acquiring a sort of semi-satrapy (much like what Belarus is today between the West and Russia come to think of it).

    • mr.wiener

      A very informative post.
      Thanks.

    • http://twitter.com/joexu Joe

      Crimea is not technically the focus of the discussion on the Chinese internet. Its intended to draw parallel to the Russian annexation of Tuva, which was also done with a military intervention with the justification of protecting Russian interests. Crimea is not suppose to be a direct comparison on point by point basis but rather a reference to Russian intervention in another country’s region to instigate a referendum (again different from Crimea now). It is not so much about whether Crimea or Mongolia or Tuva (or Taiwan) wants declare independence (based on their ethnic makeup) but rather should a foreign country have the right to intervene in another nation’s sovereignty to do so.

    • Eidolon

      You believe, falsely, that just because Chinese are 90% of the population in a region, they don’t want to break away.

      But then again, self-determination is a tool wielded by great powers when they want to effect geopolitical change. It’s not an inherent right no matter the amount of times popular media wants you to believe it is. Peoples and regions aren’t given equal opportunities to decide their fates. The US even fought a devastating civil war just to prevent it. And no, it wasn’t about slavery. It was about preserving the Union.

  • DukeofQin

    The original Chinese comments underscore the problem with the Communist educational system, that it is utterly ahistorical and designed to propagate a warped vision of history to shape the contemporary political objectives of the party.

    The Mongolians do not owe the Chinese their land, they owe the Chinese their lives.

    The nomadic Tartar scum are the blood enemies of the Chinese people, the Han race, since the dawn of our civilization. They are masters of nothing but thievery, rape, and horse shit. Defilers and adulterers of a culture ten thousand times superior to their own. Human parasites who have co-evolved to leech off the wealth and productivity of our glorious civilization. If the Chinese were to take everything that the Mongols and the rest of the steppe nomads own and gas every single man, woman, and child, it would still not even begin to compensate for the harm they have done to us. For a millennia, we Chinese had stood at the apex of human civilization, culminating with the most prosperous, cultured, and advanced civilization the world had yet seen during the Song period. What did the Mongols contribute but misery, backwardness, and barbarism? Directly causing the deaths of millions and diverting the course of Chinese civilization for centuries, the
    scars of which are still with us to this day. The Manchu filth were even worse,
    further degrading the Chinese nation down to the base level of their own
    bestial natures through 267 years of slavery. Bringing an end to the Ming
    renaissance and setting the stage for China’s decline (not even stagnation as
    the Manchu Dogs managed to make the individual Chinese half as wealthy as they were during the Ming) and further humiliation by the European Imperialist and
    those apelike Japanese dwarves.

    The predations of the Mongolians and the rest of their ilk are the reason why the Anglo-Americans stand triumphant today across the world rather than the Han race. Any true blooded Han patriot would never accept the shameless lies of the communists who dare to speak of the comity of our peoples rather our eternal enmity.

    The most amusing thing is that so very few Chinese and practically no Westerners actually understand why the Mongolians hate the Chinese so much despite the fact that it has always been they who have committed the crimes against us. Anyone who gives such feeble nonsense rationalizations such as so-called Chinese territorial irredentism is either an idiot or a flat out liar. The true reason that the Mongols hate the Chinese is because after the Manchu’s conquered them and incorporated Mongolia into the Qing empire, Chinese bourgeois and capitalists moved into Mongolia for business and, for lack of a better word, Jewed them good and hard and they have never been able to live down the fact that the simpletons were up to their ears in debt to Chinese businesses and moneylenders right up until the Qing collapse. The racial animus the Mongolians hold towards the Chinese stems from the same root as that of the Eastern European peasant hostility towards the Jewish agents of the crown.

    • Aorigele

      Applause. Your entire post is absolutely amusing. The Han as the apex of human civilization.

      The Ming renaissance? What a joke. Check your history and your head there new guy, The Ming Dynasty was brought down by its own infighting and ineptitude. The Han general at the great wall let the Manchu’s through without a fight because he knew he would get no reinforcements due to the army putting down Li zicheng’s rebellion.

      If the Han were so advanced how the hell did Mongolians take them over?

      China was only at it’s apex of world power and influence under the early Yuan dynasty, which can’t really be considered an opinion due to the amount of trade going on with europe and the middle east at the time. The present summer palace in Beijing was built by Mongols. The entirety of Russia all the way to Kiev was a perpetual slave state owned by mongols. You han never even got to mongolia militarily.

      Who jewed who? Kubilai was the first one who consolidated all of your silver and gold and gave you worthless “元“ banknotes in return, the name and likes of which your feeble gutter oil han population still uses to this day.

      I don’t need to go on with insulting you and your race as your forefathers being subjugated and destroyed by mine are the greatest laughing insult there is.

      • Alex Dương

        Are you this butthurt because some Han guy is dating your sister or something?

      • Arendelle

        Ming dynasty came to its downfall after war with Japan which invaded Korea, so the country’s strength greatly weakend and the Manchus could grow its power while Ming could not bother.

        And Song was highly developed country but had very weak military because the court feared internal conflicts and therefore choose strong centralized system. But they resisted against the Mongols for 40 years, making the most difficult and prolonged of the Mongol conquests. Historians such as William Mcneil claim that Song dynasty was at the verge of industrial revolution which could have been accomplished if it were not for the Mongol invasions, at least 300 years earlier than Europe. In other words, Mongolians did more harms than goods in terms of human civilization development.

        • wnsk

          Not to mention that the Yuan dynasty was HEAVILY sinicized and and and…….wait, why are we educating this guy? He is obviously deeply prejudiced and nothing we say is gonna get through.

          • Vox-Populi

            Yeah, never mind the Mongolian. His thick skull is too thick to drill through with the drill of reason anyway.

      • Duke of Qin

        Amazing, a barbarian savage than can read! Unfortunately, whoever was responsible for taming you didn’t do a thorough job and apparently never got around to the potty training you let alone teaching you anything of the past. Allow me to uplift you from your own callow ignorance and educate any other interested parties.

        Even the twilight years of the Ming wracked by economic disruption and civil war as it was, was superior and wealthier than the two thousand year legacy of thievery that constitutes the so-called history of the Tartar vermin that populated the steppe. Vermin whose singular claim to fame is an accident of geography and ecology, the grasslands being prime horse rearing land. The Hellenes and Latins carved out their empires with stout shields and long spears, and we with our crossbows. These advantages were created out of nothing by men with brains and heart. What huge advantage did the Tartars have in medieval warfare? Horses. What became less useful after increasingly sophisticated firearms dominated the battlefield? Horses. What is now totally irrelevant today when war is waged with satellite guided bombs, stealth fighters, and cruise missiles? Horses.

        To say that China was at its apex under the Yuan dynasty is a sick joke told by shameless liars. Per capita GDP declined drastically under the Yuan period from the Song as the Mongol bandits were busy stealing everything that wasn’t nailed down. This is confirmed by the dramatic decline in energy use that did not even fully recover under the Ming.The so-called trade with the West under the Mongol yoke was a pittance. Furthermore it was Chinese goods that was being sold not anything made by the Tartar thieves. It was Chinese silk, Chinese porcelain, Chinese lacquerware, Chinese manufactured products that were in demand. The very reason for the uptick in trade was because your bandit predecessors turned to stealing at the source through taxation rather than robbing merchants traveling to and fro. Your lazy good-for-nothing ancestors then as now do not have the skill or aptitude to make anything. Mongol trade consisting of nothing but livestock and animal furs then and coal now. To make things even more laughable, you aren’t even able to mine the coal yourselves, requiring Chinese mining equipment and expertise.

        The early advantage of the steppe nomads didn’t last and it was ultimately the Russians that put the slave collar back on your rightfully deserving necks. Russian expansion into central Asia being made possible in the 18th century by mass of musket shot while you are your kith and kin were still riding around on horses waving your bows. Even today, your people are actually still using Cyrillic, the language of your erstwhile Russian overlords. As for us, we’ve campaigned into the steppes before, Ikh Bayan and Karakorum being two obvious examples you’d like to forget, but found nothing worth keeping considering the utter poverty of your people.

        Fiat currency and paper money was invented by the Song, not by your worthless idiot ancestors who ended up overprinting and debasing the currency so much that it fell out of use.

        Mark my words barbarian, one day the communists will be overthrown, the Chinese people will free, and another Yue Fei will rise to lead the Han people to deliver final justice to you and your misbegotten kind for all the crimes you have committed against us. You will be exterminated to the last and your entire history will be wiped out as if you had never existed. We already possess the capability now, all that is lacking is purpose and will.

        • Kai

          Am I being unfair when I say Duke of Qin is doing “over-the-top” way better than Aorigele?

          • wnsk

            He is completely out-trolling Ario-whatshisname. Bad trolling is bad, but this is…good trolling.

            I didn’t even know he’s doing what he’s doing until you pointed it out. Doh!

          • mr.wiener

            I haven’t seen trolling this good since Honggien.

          • Kai

            Yeah, Hongjian had his moments. For all we know, he could be Hongjian reincarnate. Should we investigate?

          • mr.wiener

            No, mystery is one of the spices of life. Missing jets, bigfoot and Elvis sightings all sell papers.

          • Germandude

            Oh come on Kai. So what in “Duke of Qin’s” wording gave you the impression that he is better than “Aorigele”? Was it the use of

            Amazing, a barbarian savage than can read!

            Your lazy good-for-nothing ancestors

            the Russians that put the slave collar back on your rightfully deserving necks

            not by your worthless idiot ancestors

            Mark my words barbarian

            lead the Han people to deliver final justice to you and your misbegotten kind

            You will be exterminated to the last and your entire history will be wiped out as if you had never existed

            So one guy with penis-envy and the need for releasing some pressure freaks out. Some users upvote that shit because (I assume) people are happy that somebody out of the western world is criticizing China as well. Mr. Duke of Qin then goes on a counter-rant (which fact-wise is pretty correct) calling for “extermination” and “final justice”.

            And to bring the cherry-topping, you backing one side up?
            cS should start moderating shit like that. Now I am all-in for freedom of speech and all, but showing the Swastika in an avatar (Progressive Dumbass), calling for extermination of an entire people and the like should certainly be moderated. And not supported by mods man. Except it’s all for the clicks and bathing in shit like that is the new standard of this page. Peace

          • Vox-Populi

            Duke of Qin means well to counter @aorigele:disqus of his racist, ignorant dumbassery, but in the end, he made us Chinese looked even more of a bigot, racist and ignorant than the sensible ones like @kaipan:disqus.

            Yeah.. cS should be more stricter when it comes to filtering comments. It hurts to read those comments for the Chinese people like me, and @Kai.

          • Germandude

            Don’t worry. There are still people that don’t transfer the opinion of one to the people of an entire country.

          • Vox-Populi

            In the age of China Bashing and ignorance, it’s rare to find these kind of people sadly.

          • wnsk

            to be fair, aori was reacting to progressive dubstep, who claimed to be Chinese.

            duke of qin is a completely different creature. you can tell (although i missed it the first time, hah) that his mockery is probably insincere and his speech is deliberately exaggerated. on the surface he is mocking Mongolians, but in reality he is mocking Chinese (too)–it is satire of the highest level.

            i think you’ll be fine if you learn not to take it so seriously.

          • Vox-Populi

            It is a satire after all.. A blunt mockery intended to provoke people.. Just like South Park.

          • Kai

            “Better” at being “over-the-top”, not “better”. @DukeofQin:disqus was able to deliver his chauvinism with far more English eloquence and far less crutchery on expletives. Go ahead and count them.

            In other words, @aorigele:disqus sounds like he lost the plot and is exploding with misplaced e-rage while @duke_of_qin:disqus sounds intentionally “over-the-top” for comic effect.

            For the record, I didn’t upvote Duke of Qin’s comment. In fact, I downvoted him and my first reaction was this. However, I do feel there’s a qualitative difference between what he wrote and what Aorigele wrote. My comment was me expressing that and looking for reassurance that I’m not the only one.

            So, I’m not really backing any “side” even if I’m recognizing that one side was way more eloquent and actually humorous in his approach.

            As for moderating “shit like that”, I think the people who upvoted Aorigele would disagree with you. Swastikas as profile photos are poor taste but Christians would take issue with your bird-flippin’ Jesus profile image as well. As I conferred with the other mods, for now, we’re only going to stick to moderating pornography or gore in avatar images. This policy may change in the future but we’re not at that point yet.

            I think you’ve either misunderstood me or unfairly straw-manned me here.

          • Germandude

            Don’t worry, I am not straw-manning you here. Maybe I just misunderstood your post then, so thanks for your explanation.
            Regarding avatars: So if I understand correctly, showing Jesus showing the middle-finger in my avatar, you think that’s making fun of him, or Christian belief? Or to anyone else? If the middle-finger was shown to Jesus in that pic, I certainly would agree and not use that avatar. Up to now, nobody complained about this to me and if somebody feels offended by it and reasonably explains why that is, I’d take that avatar off.
            Now compare that to showing the swastika and what it stands for. Never mind the fact that @progressivedubstep:disqus could get into serious legal trouble in Germany for it (where he currently pays a visit). That symbol is forbidden to be shown in public in most European countries and I’d say that more people have bad feelings about the swastika and what it represents than Jesus showing the finger.

            The comparison of the 2 pretty much sucks.

          • Kai

            I personally don’t care about bird-flipping Jesus. I don’t care about pictures of Mohammad either. My point is that there are people who do, just like people who don’t like the swastika. I suppose you fall on the side of freedom of speech where specifically swastikas can be restricted and I fall on the side where swastikas fall under things that shouldn’t be restricted. Yes, it’s an arbitrary line and there’s endless arguments for both sides. I’m just telling you where the line is at this point in time on this site, and that the line drawn isn’t meant to personally offend you just like our refusal to censor anyone for bashing China and the Chinese isn’t meant to personally offend Chinese people.

        • Can’t remember my username

          I can see, with that attitude, why some Mongols may dislike the Chinese. There is so much in your post that is not supported by any credible evidence I really don’t know where to begin.

          “What huge advantage did the Tartars have in medieval warfare? Horses.”

          Well, for a start you could stop describing the Mongols as Tatars, it’s hardly appropriate or even accurate. As for the above statement you seem to have forgotten the Mongolian compound bow – not the bow used today as a party trick to appease the Chinese that come to gawk at a diminishing ‘ethnic group’, but a real compound bow. The one that took more draw strength than a longbow, had a range of over 500 metres and a well-trained Mongolian soldier could put an arrow through someone’s head at full gallop at 50-100 metres. It was so technologically advanced that it wasn’t surpassed, as you mentioned for around 500 years,until the 18c, when firearms were adopted by the Manchu. As for crossbows, they were a peasants weapon.

          You are also forgetting that Chinggis Khan was the first to develop a form of lightning war. His army was highly organised, well-trained and superbly led, it was was dived into units of tens and the officers were appointed because of ability – not like the Chinese then and now by corruption, birth and guanxi. Also his use of deception, mobile/pinning forces, and flanking was unmatched. His main cavalry forces could, when required, cover 50 km a day – something that wasn’t achieved again until Operation Barbarossa, by the Germans in 1941.

          Finally, thanks to Chinggis, his descendants and their complete domination and subjugation of the ‘Han’ there is an 8% chance that you are related to Aorigele. As such, it would be appropriate to be more respectful to your Mongol ‘brother’.

          I’ve read a lot of hateful posts on this site and yours is up there with them. That is not a compliment.

          • Insomnicide

            Did you just call a bow technologically advanced and unsurpassed?

          • Can’t remember my username

            Naw, I called a Mongolian compound bow technologically advanced and was unsurpassed until the mid-1700s. Of course not realising I was going to be either trolled by someone who has absolutely nothing to add or lacks reading comprehension skills I should’ve clarified that statement. Try this:

            The Mongolian compound bow was one of, if not the most effective short to mid-range weapons used in the middle-ages and because of its technologically advanced construction, for the 1200s, gave a well-trained Mongol warrior, in combination with his horse, a huge advantage on the battlefield.

            Of course there was the Japanese Katana, but that’s a close combat weapon. The only equivalent to a compound bow, at the time, would have been the Welsh/English longbow which were as equally as devastating. There’s actually a debate about which was superior. Perhaps, you’d like to add your thoughts? On second thoughts, don’t bother.

            Of course a cheerleader for the scared Motherland would say the crossbow, well yes, my trolling friend, the release mechanism of the Chinese crossbow was technologically advanced, and may I say quite brilliant. However, as a complete weapon the crossbow had a lot to be desired. The major problem obviously being its incredibly slow rate of fire. Sure your average peasant who was conscripted in to stand against a Mongol cavalry army could probably get one or two bolts down range before he broke, ran and fled in abject terror before a Mongol warrior rode him down and cleaved him apart for a bit of Sunday afternoon sport.

            Well why didn’t the Chinese adopt the compound bow? Another good question, O mighty piss taker, the reason being it was so difficult to draw and to master. And of course I’m not referring to the Manchu who did use it. However I digress, to use a compound bow effectively took years of dedicted training, and when you combine using a compound bow and horse in almost perfect harmony, it was required that the future rulers of China started training before they could actually walk. Unlike the Chinese who then and now had little time for such trivialities. As the peasants were trying to eke out a living while their masters were busy with prostitutes, concubines and stashing away as many silver taels (feel free to correct me on the currency, if it’s actually something you have some knowledge about.) as possible

            Does that clarify things? And I presume you’ll have nothing further of any value to add but another smart-arse trolling comment?

          • Insomnicide

            Right the compound bow was the most technologically advanced thing in the world then.

            If you forget the crossbow, the handcannon, the catapult, etc. etc. existed. Not to mention many ancient Greek mechanisms which were lost in time.

            Also by the 1700s, the gun and cannons were invented. Are you seriously telling me the compound bow was unsurpassed by then?

            Seeing how as you actually bothered to type that out, you aren’t trolling. So you’re actually just really ignorant of history and blatantly biased in favour of Mongols despite the fact that no matter how strong their armies were, they were using primitive weaponry which has existed for thousands of years. Once again, horses and bows. That’s really their gig. Your arguments weren’t able to refute that point at all.

          • Can’t remember my username

            “Right the compound bow was the most technologically advanced thing in the world then.”

            I never said that and I also corrected my mistake of not specifying its role.

            “If you forget the crossbow, the handcannon, the catapult, etc. etc. existed. Not to mention many ancient Greek mechanisms which were lost in time.”

            I mentioned the crossbow, the catapult was long range but the trebuchet was much more advanced, Greek mechanisms? Like what? Greek Fire? Limited application and not widely used.

            “Also by the 1700s, the gun and cannons were invented. Are you seriously telling me the compound bow was unsurpassed by then?”

            They were invented well before the 1700, Cannons were long-range. The guns used in Asia or Europe? Big difference. however the fist hand guns, as such, at that time were not reliable, accurate and couldn’t be used in the wet. They were used in Europe in conjunction with pikes. The long bow was used by the English till around the mid to late 1500s. You have to remember the Ming cut themselves of from the “barbarians’ so the development of gunpowder weapons stagnated in China. Even the Manchu, when they conquered China still had the compound bow as part of its armoury.

            “So you’re actually just really ignorant of history and blatantly biased in favour of Mongols despite the fact that no matter how strong their armies were, they were using primitive weaponry which has existed for thousands of years.”

            They weren’t using primitive weaponry, it was a compound bow – not just a bow. They weren’t just horses, it was a well-trained, superbly led cavally force. The Poles and Russians still had cavalry forces in 1939 and the Tibetans used cavalry against the PLA in 1949. Aren’t the Tibetans Chinese? so therefore the Chinese were still using cavalry in the late 1940s and from memory up till the 1960s

            Thousands of years? Surely you mean since ancient times – at least 5,000 years? Google when the first compound bow was developed – it certainly wasn’t thousands of years.

            “Once again, horses and bows. That’s really their gig. Your arguments weren’t able to refute that point at all.”

            Yeah, it’s pretty funny that the Chinese got subjugated by ‘barbarians’ armed with bows and a few ponies, isn’t it?

            Think what you want, I don’t give a feck now, your ignorance is your problem.

            As an edit I chose 1750 because that’s when the last of the independent Mongol Khans were finally defeated by the Manchu using gunpowder weapons.

        • Aorigele

          purpose and will. there never was nor will there ever be any. That sums up your entire race.

      • Insomnicide

        The Yuan dynasty was the apex, right.. Because the Han dynasty and the Tang dynasty totally did not exist.

        Because being segregated into racial castes and placed at the lowest level, being mass murdered and mass raped is a sign of the apex of a civilization.

        Also, the summer palace in Beijing was built in the Ming dynasty. All Yuan era projects were built in Dadu, which is in modern day Inner Mongolia. Nowhere near Beijing.

        The banknotes were invented by the Song Chinese, the Mongols didn’t even understand the concept of currency until they were taught by Han Chinese.

    • http://akarlin.com/ Anatoly Karlin

      Chinese – Mongol Internet discussions, it seems, have the potential to be just as entertaining as Balkan slugfests.

      Please, carry on.

      • mr.wiener

        Is this seat taken? I’ll sit here with you and watch the carnage.
        Germandude can bring the beer.

        • Germandude

          Prost

        • Vox-Populi

          You need me to bring in the chicken wings and popcorn too?

          • mr.wiener

            If you make it buffalo wings and poutine.

          • Vox-Populi

            ‘ere you go.

    • Kai

      WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?!?

      • Vox-Populi

        Well.. there can be one explanation:

    • wnsk

      Yeah, seriously dude, who ARE you? Your last paragraph is intriguing, but how do you know what you know?

      • Duke of Qin

        I know by studying what the Mongols themselves say about us and being able to read and synthesize the subtext from the public facts without being led astray by Marxist shibboleths. The Chinese were the ones to introduce the Mongol simpletons to Capitalism and in doing so bound them tightly in chains of usury. It is one thing for a savage to be subdued by naked force which he recognizes and respects as the Russians had done, it is quite another for him to be bound by money which is an altogether alien master that the primitive steppe nomads with their Paleolithic economies could scarcely comprehend. They knew nothing and know nothing of supply or demand, comparative advantage, or compound interest, but the savages could see that the Chinese merchants and moneylenders living among them were wealthier compared to their ger grubbing selves and they resented the “sorcery” by which the Chinese seemed to enrich themselves. Not to mention the Mongolian concubines that their wealth enabled. The descendants of rapist dogs still are especially resentful that their “pure” women were so willing to sell themselves to us.

        To understand the font of the Mongolian animus towards the Chinese you need to read some academic studies of the role of the Chinese ghost in Mongolian folk lore as well as well as economic studies of late Qing Mongolia and the relationship between Mongolian nobles and Chinese bankers.

        • Mighty曹

          I must say I thoroughly enjoy reading your colorful writing style. Thumbs up!

        • Barhas

          Congratulations. You have read up so much that you can refute one argument that relies on well-known events from more than 90 years ago with another argument that relies on equally well-known events from more than 100 years ago.

          But what if disdain for the Chinaman’s duplicity – as well as for his genocidal inclininations – was already expressed in one of the oldest written sources preserved in Mongolia – a source that was created about 800 years before the Qing dynasty was even founded?

          As an alternative argument, is it possible that some of the very treats that give an evolutionary advantage in highly bureaucratic and populous societies are much less advantagous, and thus common, and thus tolerated, in societies that are much less bureaucratic and much less populous? E.g. the willingness to extort and scam those of your community members who cannot fight back, or the ability to simply walk past a girl slowly bleeding to death (I am sure you will come up with some neat examples that the reverse also holds true)? Obviously this argument has the disadvantage that it relies much less on name-calling, hyperbole, or on feeling inherently superior. Still I think it might explain the rise in Mongolian dislike for the Chinese since the 1990s (when the border to China was reopened) a bit better than those Chinese peddlers from the 19th century.

        • mr.wiener

          And yet these are the people whose coat-tails you hang onto when you claim the Genghis Khan was Chinese.

          • Alex Dương

            Any claim that Genghis Khan was Chinese is nonsense. But even so, the claim that the Yuan were a legitimate Chinese dynasty did not originate from the CCP; the founder of the Ming Dynasty claimed that the Yuan legitimately possessed the Mandate of Heaven after they beat the Song.

  • Aorigele

    “If you think China is a dreaded imperialist country which killed and send more others to death”, “is USA and Soviet respectively”

    Chinese English and historical revisionism with a total lack of logic ie: “If you think CHna is a dreaded imperialist country which kill and send more others to death, you’re wrong. Many countries are like that, long time ago, and today.” Usually if you want to make a point, you have to provide reason or proof to back it up. If I’m wrong about China not killing and sending others to their deaths, the sentence that follows your statement should relate in backing it up in some way instead of trying to divert attention to other countries as you did with your follow up sentence. Typical Chinese English and commie propaganda mindset. You seem like a very polite 5mao member.

    where has “the Soviet Union” been. And who now does North Korea both hate and depend upon for shipments of oil and food, without which they would not be able to operate their worthless military? China. That’s right.

    Go practice your English some more until I can’t tell you’re a 50 cent party member.

    • linette lee

      By your logic you say China should cut off aid to North Korea. No food supplies and energy for warm. Who do you think will die first? The North Korean innocent people or the big guy on top Fat Kim and his party?

      • Aorigele

        Fat Kim and his party would probably suffer the most. The North Korean people are already used to it. He isn’t. Can you imagine him not fat? They’d stop taking pictures of him gods sake. But now they have nukes and he’ll use them, (probably on his own revolting population) if his fatboy palace is threatened. Good job on all these years of propping him up China gave them enough time to get nukes and another fatboy that hates you. Especially good job after he goes and kills his uncle the reformer, who was China’s only right hand man in North Korea. So the leadership hates China and takes their goods at the same time and the insanity of it is China props these bastards up only to show their own population that there’s no rift or problem with “marxist-leninist socialism” and the Korean war was just and right, the old face game for their own regime survival.

        What a joke.

        • linette lee

          I don’t think China wants fat Kim to have too much military power, nor do China wants to give them any materials required to build nukes. China is not that stupid. China is just using North Korea as a wall to wall off USA.
          Plus it’s true North Korea has been China allies for years, so China just feed them some food so they won’t starve or have chaos. But they really need to do away with that concentration camps torturing his opponents shxt. So bad.

          China doesn’t seems to mind if North Korea improve on their economy and the North Korean people live better.

          And you must be dumb to think fat Kim will suffer if no food supplies. He and his men will be the last one to suffer.

          • Aorigele

            yeah ok. Here’s some candy and a toy. Go play. don’t forget to do your homework later and brush your teeth before you go to bed.

          • Silence

            Admitting defeat now huh? Outsmarted by a Chinese now? You mad bro?

          • linette lee

            And you tell Mongolia and South Korea to help feed the North Koreans. The bill is getting too costly. We are all neighbors. Should help out.

        • Rick in China

          Nobody is afraid of North Korean rockets/missles. Have you seen their test flights? It looks like an 80 year old dude trying to launch a money shot, nothing but fizzle and dust. South Korea is mostly afraid of the massive land army and conventional weaponry…or should be.

  • Aorigele

    does the 50 cent party provide you guys with high horses too? Oh sorry that’s colloquial english, you can’t understand.

  • Aorigele

    criticize, just in word, the chinese government in China using some form of mass media in an official setting able to be viewed by the entire population. Go to America, do the same thing to the American government. Compare the results.

  • Aorigele

    yeah chill pill. cool english, dude.

  • Aorigele

    Whatever you say. Stay the hell away from mongolia. You’re not welcome.

    • Silence

      This shows that either you’re afraid to discuss further since you’re wrong, or just ran out of ideas on what to say.

      • Aorigele

        no, it shows that i got banned from here for a few days and that your too childish to be worthy of a response. Ie: you actually think China and the US are on the same par when it comes to freedom of press. get a life.

  • Aorigele

    Whatever you say. Stay the hell away from Mongolia. You’re not welcome.

    • Jahar

      You speak for the country?

      • Aorigele

        I speak for probably 90% of the people with similar sentiments. If you don’t believe it then go to mongolia yourself or just listen to that mongolian song called F@ck the Chinese

        • Wave_r1der

          Wow.. where did you get that “accurate” statistic of 90%?

        • Silence

          One song does not represent 100% of how Mongolians feel pal.

          • Aorigele

            ok you go to mongolia and tell everyone you’re chinese. see how many friends you make

    • Silence

      I don’t care. Unless you are a president or a respresentative of Mongolia, anyone (like me) can go in to Mongolia. Hopefully I won’t see your ugly face.

  • Yes!

    Chinese must stop this ridiculously myopic and wrong argument that “because this was China’s territory during Qing dynasty therefore it should belong to China today”. One could easily argue that since large parts of China today was once upon a time part of the Genghis Khan Mongolian Empire, should the Chinese please get out and return the land to Mongolia??

    Chinese aggressiveness in the South China Sea is another example of this cocky and ugly mentality. That part of the sea has been peaceful for half a century and suddenly the Chinese claim everything there belongs to them today, creating tension and potential war in the area. The Chinese, being proud of their 5000 history, still display the same historical characteristics: bullying of others, land grabbing, greed, taking whatever that don’t belong to them. All for “face” reasons.

    The Chinese are now flexing their muscles because they have some money to buy arms to threaten those around them, including Japan. What they fail to realise is that without foreign investment from Japan and other western countries in China, Chinese economy will still be as backward as they were 50 years ago and will not have the money or capability to even think of building an aircraft carrier. Without economic growth, Chinese government officials will have no means to be corrupt because there just weren’t much money to go around.

    • Alex Dương

      > That part of the sea has been peaceful for half a century and suddenly the Chinese claim everything there belongs to them today, creating tension and potential war in the area.

      Actually, the Chinese have claimed the area since the 1930s, as has Vietnam (then French Indochina).

    • Probotector

      Just the other day, I saw a girl with a shopping bag with the shape of China printed on it, but this one must have been new, because it also includes a depiction of the diaoyu islands. I’ve also seen 2014 calendars with propaganda depicting these islands with a China flag atop them and their new aircraft carrier in the foreground. What country still makes such a big deal of ‘look how mighty our empire is’ anymore?

  • Aorigele

    No, the US doesn’t delete websites and arrest journalists critical of the government. I guess Liu Xiaobo got the nobel prize for nothing right?

    • Silence

      Mr Mongolian.. Have you heard of “Media Bias” before? This is used widely on the US media.

      As for the Nobel prize, it is just a sham, with the people awarding the prize to wrong individuals such as Yasser Arafat.

      • Aorigele

        so i guess an imprisoned liu xiaobo is a sham too. you’re a genius

        • Silence

          yeah, so is awarding Barack Obama when he did NO SHIT.

      • Zappa Frank

        Arafat got the prize with Rabin, they did much for peace in middle east, but unlucky it did not give results.. i don’t think was a wrong choice.

  • Aorigele

    Wave_r1der

    Aorigele

    8 hours ago

    If you think Chna is a dreaded imperialist country which killed and
    send mor….”
    Your attention to detail is deplorable (I only quoted you when you originally spelled China as Chna), on par with your reading comprehension.

    Any one with a grasp of mondern history knows that China isn’t the only country that exploits others. If I wrote something that made you feel that I was only singing out China as imperialist, that was not my intention but I won’t start writing things on a first grade level just so you can understand.

    But I will do this. See the article above (that was originally on KDNet) that says Chinese feel that Mongolia is theirs? Yes, only Chinese in China feel that way. Can your first grade level of reading comprehension understand why I singled out China now?

    I know you feel pride that China has become stronger in the last couple of years being in indonesia where those monkey indonesians killed so many Chinese, but you chinese don’t need to entertain any thoughts about invading Mongolia (like those “netizens” on KDNet), just because it would make your demented face chasing egos a little more inflated by taking more space up on the map.

    • Silence

      So you hate Indonesians too.. great.. is this just Mongolians or you?

      And yes, China doesn’t even need Mongolia anyway, considering that it’s nothing of value. It’s just big, empty landlocked country. Hell, poverty is kinda big in your country.

      Indonesians killed Chinese, so what? You kill a handful of us, we grow more. That is just us. We don’t give a shit about others (like you), but we keep on focusing on improving our lives. Which is why we thrive EVERYWHERE. Unlike you Mongol Barbarians, only being able to stay in one spot which is MONGOLIA.

      And regarding me being unable to comprehend you, try reading your comments, over and over again. With your language of hate and racism, your obviously point China, China, and China being evil. Otherwise, you’ll write “US and British did evil things, but China is the evilest” something like that.

  • Napoj Jablocsnij

    calm down chinese friends.
    crimea would be a precedent to unificate taiwan and china as u wish.

    we europeans have the same interest like you or russia or the american ppl – stop zionist US government.

    US cant accept being number one as long as there are number 2 or 3 etc.
    they want to be the only global power.

    • hess

      “we europeans have the same interest like you or russia or the american ppl – stop zionist US government.” Go suck on something big.
      Sincerely/
      Another European.

  • Kai

    Ugh, he was trolling and you’re trolling back.

    • Vox-Populi

      Sorry. My bad.

  • Guest

    “we europeans have the same interest like you or russia or the american ppl – stop zionist US government.” Go suck on something big.
    Sincerely/ Fellow European.

  • Mighty曹

    According to this image my west coast would be targeted first. hahaha…

  • Vox-Populi

    If Chinese treated the non-Chinese like shit, then can you explain why minority territories requires bilingual signs, exempt from One-Child Policy, and also an increase of life quality?

    • Zappa Frank

      than why Tibetans and Uyghurs are not so happy to be under Han?

      • Vox-Populi

        Probably the combination of Media Bias and extremism.

      • Alex Dương

        The CCP curtails their personal (especially religious) freedoms.

        • Vox-Populi

          Can’t be helped since it’s communism (just like Vietnam)..

          But you can’t deny the fact that they enjoy the quality of life there, such as better literacy rate, better healthcare, etc.

          • Alex Dương

            But both China and Vietnam are Communist In Name Only. Both have long since abandoned planned economies in favor of mixed economies. Now they are just authoritarian dictatorships who foolishly choose to cling on to “Communism” as a brand despite all of its baggage.

            Even Tibetan exiles in India acknowledge that but for lack of personal freedoms, living conditions are better in China than in India.

            http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/22/world/la-fg-india-dharamsala-20100922

          • Vox-Populi

            That gives us the question: what are the Tibetan exiles fighting for again? If it’s good, then why fighting it?

            May I ask: why are China and Vietnam are authoritarian dictatorships?

          • Alex Dương

            They probably do so because they desire religious freedom.

            Can I rephrase your question as why did I say they aren’t Communist? If so, Communism involves a system of government and a system of economics; it’s a package deal. If you just have the system of government without the system of economics, then you are no different from “non-Communist” dictatorships like Pinochet’s.

          • Vox-Populi

            That’s a good cause, until they start attacking Chinese, and set themselves on fire. I am honestly wondering how the heck will this advance their agenda.

            I see. Things like Media censorship (which I honestly think it’s too strict.. let it loose a little) shows signs of dictatorship, am I right?

          • Alex Dương

            The media censorship is a sign of authoritarianism. It’s a dictatorship because one party is always in control, and the leaders aren’t elected by the people. But it isn’t Communist because not all prices are determined by central planning.

          • Vox-Populi

            If China (and Vietnam) can relax it or remove it completely, it would be a hell of a diffrent world there. Question is, when will they do it?

          • Zappa Frank

            I guess because you cannot vote. You cannot turn against government. the censorship, human rights, and so on..

          • Vox-Populi

            Hm, maybe the voting yes, since people are only limited to waiting for the “right” leader to lead the country. An idiot premier is chosen, and people have to suffer until a new one comes up. As long as he’s in power, people have to listen to him, like it or not. Sad really. Though I love and are loyal China, (I’m a Chinese for crying out loud, lol), I still think China has some imperfections that needs to be sorted out, like this voting thing.

            “You cannot turn against government. the censorship, human rights, and so on..”

            At least netizens were given the freedom to complain about it in the internet. It’s nothing I know, but at least it’s better than nothing..

        • Zappa Frank

          this something I really don’t understand. why china is so strict against the freedoms , especially religious, of those populations while in the same time I can see every day more and more protestants churches?

          • Alex Dương

            Aren’t those churches regulated by the government?

          • Zappa Frank

            ok got it, I really did not think about it. so in the end is about who nominate the priest/clerics .

          • Yes!

            Read “The Empire of Lies” by Guy Sorman. Empire,of course, refers to the Middle Kingdom. All answers in there.

          • Guest

            a Tibetan friend explained this to me in a quite simple way: Dalai Lama is in charge of the politics while Panchen the religion. Therefore CCP start to “appoint” Dalai for Tibet because of course they wouldn’t want Tibet to have an independent government. while on the other hand, Dalai is Tibetans’ spiritual leader and has to be selected in their own way. i believe the western world used to have the same problem – separation of church and state.

  • Vox-Populi

    So the Native American Massacres, Crimean Tatar deportations, African slavery aren’t a well documented history then?

    This is an example of stunning display of ignorance. The British, Russians, Americans, Germany, etc. have stole lands and impose imperialism too (in fact, worse than this one).

    Go grab a big book of history before commenting, please.

    • Alexus

      If you’ve heard one tired worn out wumao attempt at rebuttal you’ve heard them all. Go learn your own history before opening your yapper about Westerners. Preferably a history book not written by your CCP paymasters.

      • mr.wiener

        Just because someone holds an opinion contrary to your own this does not always make them a wumao.
        If this were the case the USSR owes me a lot of back wages for all the peace rallies I attended in the 80’s

  • Vox-Populi

    Yeah, no different than America, who stole 100% of the lands held by the Native Indians, or the Russians who kicked the Crimean Tatars away from their land a long time ago.

    Yeah, sure, every country did that too, but the worst can be seen on the west here, my friend.

    • Alexus

      And dont call me friend wumao.

    • Alexus

      Typical 50 cent response, so predictable as to be laughable. Learn your own history before opening your yapper about the West.

    • Can’t remember my username

      “Yeah, no different than America, who stole 100% of the lands held by the Native Indians, or the Russians who kicked the Crimean Tatars away from their land a long time ago.”

      Look… over there.. it’s a panda

      Crimean Tatars -They were Mongolians who displaced/slaughtered either the Venetians or Genoese, can’t remember which, in Caffa who had displaced Turkic tribes who had most probably displaced Cumins or Huns. So I’d hardly call the Crimea ‘their land’. If your interested look how the word Tatar originated.

  • Vox-Populi

    His name isn’t Chinese.

  • Chris Granzow XI

    The only reason mongolia was never incorporated into russia is because russia needed a buffer state against china. It would be a pretty funny twist of fates for the monoglians though, given the history of the golden horde.

  • mr.wiener

    But so are you anti wumao retorts. Your whole “sanlu swilling wumao” thing gets old really fast.
    Also are you sticking with “SOPPY” as your handle? If I see anymore posts from “Alexus” I’ll have to delete them….sorry, mod stuff, toilets don’t clean themselves.

  • mr.wiener

    No comment from this user name has been deleted. Since you don’t have a disqus ID you comment was awaiting moderation.

  • བོད་

    Outer Mongolia was sold by the scum rat chiang kai shek to the soviets. It was and always will be a part of China.

    • Zappa Frank

      what about the opinion of Mongolians?

  • Eidolon

    Except there never was a Crimean people. The USSR moved Tatars out and Russians in:

    “Unsurprisingly, there is no room in this narrative for the nation that Russian imperialism almost managed to annihilate — the Crimean Tatars. Russia conquered the Crimean Tatar khanate in 1783. Afterward, the Russian authorities forced the Tatars out of their ancestral homeland and replaced them with settlers from Russia.

    Tens of thousands of Tatars died or were killed; some two-thirds had to leave the Crimea. In 1944, the ethnic cleansing was completed when Stalin expelled the entire Crimean Tatar population — about 200,000 people — to Uzbekistan and some other Soviet regions. About half died on the way. It was only in the late 1980s that they began returning to their homeland to find that their land and their homes had been occupied by Russian settlers.” http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/19/opinion/motyl-putin-speech/

    Now Putin held a referendum to confirm the fact that the region is now primarily Russian. Not to mention it was done after Russia already had full military control over Crimea. Who was going to vote otherwise and risk being expelled and worse by the Russian military?

    The only lesson the world learned from Russian actions is that 1) political power still comes from the barrel of a gun and 2) ethnic cleansing is still the best way to secure a territory. Had China followed the Russian example, they would simply deport Tibetans from Tibet and move 10 million Chinese in, then hold a referendum 100 years down the line and yell VOILA! They WANT to join China!

  • DavidHarley

    Here we have the crux of nationalism.

    Imperial ideologies, since time immemorial, have held that a state consists of the lands it can hold, by force if necessary.

    19th-century nationalism, exported around the world from Central Europe, held that a language makes a culture, a culture makes a nation, and a nation is entitled to a state. This principle broke apart the empires within Europe and then the overseas European empires, creating new states in Europe and overseas. In 1850, “Germany” and “Italy” were just geographical terms.

    So are peoples entitled to self-determination? Are states entitled to have secure borders? Both principles are firmly established in international law, but they can easily contradict one another. Borders are just lines on the map, but identifying who belongs to a nation can be just as arbitrary.

  • Eidolon

    Piece of advice – get over the butt hurt about imperial countries because they are the ones who run the world.

    Most powerful countries in existence today –

    US – imperialist
    Russia – imperialist
    China – imperialist
    Japan – ex-imperialist, disarmed by US
    Germany – ex-imperialist, disarmed by US

    What amazes me is people who still live in their own fantasy land in which nice guys decide the course of history.

    No, genius. The strong decide the course of history.

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