Old Chinese Man Beaten to Death For Criticizing “Chengguan”

The body of an elderly man who was allegedly beaten to death by Chinese city management personnel after criticizing their law enforcement conduct.

The most commented article of the day and second most of the week on Chinese web portal NetEase…

From NetEase:

Follow-Up to 70-Year-Old Elderly Person Suspected of Being Beaten to Death By Chengguan While Trying to Break Up a Fight: Officials Claim Those Who Beat Him Were Xieguan Community Stewards

Jinghua Times report — Yesterday morning, after a netizen posted a “a 70-year-old elderly person who kindly begged chengguan city management personnel to be civil in their law enforcement was instead beaten to death” microblog post, it was reshared over 10,000 times within just half a day. In response to this, a representative for the Fuzhou Municipal Party Committee Propaganda Department of Fujian province stated that yesterday morning, a villager of Fuzhou city Mawei district Tingjiang town Xibian village clashed with a xieguan community steward near the farmer’s market, died after falling to the ground, and that the person who beat him was not a chengguan officer.

[Note: Xieguan are essentially “assistants” to chengguan, auxiliary personnel who are not technically chengguan but often work with chengguan in enforcing urban regulations.]

Yesterday morning at 9:48am, netizen “ThanksMonica” posted a microblog post claiming: “This morning at the Tingjiang market, when chengguan were making things difficult for a vegetable peddler, a 60-year-old elder person who kindly intervened was instead beaten to death by the chengguan. Right now, relatives are around him crying.” The 9 photographs of the scene attached by the netizen showed that the scene was full of gathered bystanders, with several middle-aged women crying bitterly supported by the crowd, and a body covered with a bed sheet on the ground. About an hour later, this netizen once again posted on Weibo saying: “Reporters, forensics, and criminal investigators have all arrived. Two chengguan chased and beat the elderly person over several dozen meters, with an eyewitness saying one of the chengguan had choked the elderly person by the neck, while the other beat the old man with his fists.” From this netizen’s second set of photos of the scene, it can be seen that the scene has already been sealed off with police tape, with both police and emergency medical personnel on the scene. In just a short half-day, this Weibo post had been forwarded over 10,000 times, commented over 2000 times, with netizens one after another expressing anger with the chengguan‘s actions.

fuzhou-old-man-beaten-to-death-by-chengguan-3

The Weibo microblog account of the local media also verified this incident. According to Haixia City Newspaper‘s official Weibo, what their reporter on the scene has already learned is: after chengguan and a vegetable peddler had a small clash, an elderly person went forward to intervene, and it is suspected that he died despite medical attention on the scene after being beaten by the chengguan. The elderly person was 70 years old this year, a local.

Yesterday afternoon at 5pm, this Jinghua Times reporter attempted to contact the Fuzhou city Mawei district Chengguan Enforcement Office to verify this matter but without success. A staff member of the Fuzhou Municipal Party Committee Propaganda Department News Office said that this matter is not as it was has been circulated on the internet, that the person who did the beating is not chengguan. Other than this, a government notice says: Tingjiang town Xibian Village villager Zheng Xiuyuan (male, 70 years old) clashed with community stewards near the Tingtou farmer’s market and died after falling on the ground.

Comments from NetEase:

网易江苏省苏州市网友 ip:222.92.*.*:

So the truth has indeed come out, and it really fucking is temporary workers. Talk about no suspense.

网易宁夏手机网友 ip:218.203.*.*:

Last time it was with a steelyard balance. This time it was nothing [but bare hands]. The martial arts of our country’s chengguan have once again improved.

毛岸英他爸 [网易美国网友]:

I’ll do both dirty and bad things.
I’ll bear The crime and guilt for you.
How come my company doesn’t have this kind of personnel?

网易陕西省西安市手机网友 ip:113.200.*.*:

Sigh, I knew long ago that it would be temporary workers, and you guys knew too, right?

网易日本手机网友 ip:61.215.*.*:

Sigh! You’d be better off provoking black society [organized crime] than the chengguan! At least black society observes a code of brotherhood, whereas the chengguan observe nothing!

The second most commented article of the day on NetEase…

From NetEase:

Follow-Up to “Chengguan Beat to Death Elderly Person”: Government Compensates Victim’s Relatives 600,000 Yuan

China.com April 10 report — According to a report by Legal Evening News, 68-year-old Zheng Xiuyuan raised criticisms of the work of community stewards next to the Fuzhou city Mawei district Tingjiang farmer’s market yesterday and was then violently beaten to death by the two community stewards. In the morning, Zheng Xiuyuan’s younger brother Zheng Xiuyong said the Tingjiang town government has already reached a written agreement with the family to give 600,000 yuan as compensation for the wrongful death within 7 days. At present, the family is preparing to file a lawsuit against the community stewards.

Comments from NetEase:

跟帖总局局长 [网易山西省太原市网友]:

Have taxpayers agreed to this?
You people use taxpayers’ money to dispose of problems, is this simply so your own leaders can avoid responsibility…?

网易浙江省绍兴市手机网友 ip:218.74.*.*: (responding to above)

Ding this up!

网易江苏省南京市手机网友 ip:122.96.*.*:

Fuck, if I beat to death a chengguan, will the government help me pay compensation?

网易广西桂林市手机网友 ip:221.7.*.*:

Using our taxpayers’ money for compensation, why isn’t the compensation coming from the person who beat him? A life for a life, so whoever beats to death a chengguan in the future, I’ll pay for them.

网易福建省厦门市手机网友 ip:110.80.*.*:

Taxpayers’ money, hehe.

A #Chengguan Beat to Death Old Person# hashtag was among the most popular on China’s leading microblog platform Sina Weibo yesterday and today.

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  • Irvin

    Wait……..this never happened before? Why do people pretend this is news?

    • noodles76

      So if it happened before…and happened again… it’s not news? That does not make even the slightest bit of sense.

    • Mighty曹

      Why do you pretend you are smart?

      • YourSupremeCommander

        People with Jewish names always think they are smarter than everybody else.

        • Mighty曹

          Unless it’s ‘Einstein’. LOL!

          *yeah yeah, I know, names ending in -stein, -berg-, man, etc. are of German origin. But now are mostly associated with being Jewish. Even hijacking terrorists target such names when they gather all the passports of the hostages.

          • mr.wiener

            Oi veh, I’m changing my name to “Wienerstein”.

          • Germandude

            Change it to Weinerberg and hit two birds with one stone.
            Weinerberg = mountain of whiners ;-)

          • mr.wiener

            BTW, does this mean “Frankenstein” was Jewish?

            I shall retire to my mountain to do some whining.

          • Germandude

            Nope. How shall I say? Just because someone’s name ends on -stein, -berg-, man, doesn’t necessarily mean he has Jewish roots.

          • linette lee

            But most of them do.

          • mr.wiener

            Tread carefully German dude, she knows what she’s talking about…..She’s from Hong Kong!

          • Zappa Frank

            I heard that Chinese invented jewish names..

          • Germandude

            I won’t reply her. The same as not shutting the barking dog down, because it ain’t mine.

          • linette lee

            yeah, FRankenstein he is Jewish. Why don’t you name yourself Weinerstein? haha.

  • Dogs and old Chinese…beaten to death by Chengguan on the street…Life is cheap in China

    • Probotector

      Careful, that’s a prejudiced statement, not a criticism. You don’t want an angry Chinese nationalist backlash do you?

      • Guang Xiang

        I don’t see the prejudice in that statement. He’s simply stating that the nature of beating and resulting death makes Chinese life seem expendable, especially since I’m sure this news will be forgotten soon. A sad state.

        However, assuming that backlash over prejudicial statements is from angry Chinese nationalists is one.

        • Probotector

          It was an inside joke between me and fred fong.

  • Mighty曹

    Just a couple days ago I was wondering why we haven’t heard anything on the Chengguans lately? This is not the news I was hoping for.

    Why do they still exist? Chengguans are mostly just uneducated assholes from a poor background given some level of authority that they have never enjoyed in their meager lives. They not only put on a uniform but also a ‘power trip’ ego that make them become abusive. Fucking 城管!

    • YourSupremeCommander

      You just gave a good description of police forces around the world.

      • Mighty曹

        You’re starting to sound like, erm.. maybe, a banana.

        • wnsk

          I see what you did there :]

          • Mighty曹

            Hahahaha… I’m glad you noticed.
            I wonder where he’s been? Hope I didn’t humiliate him too much.

      • Germandude

        @YourSupremeCommander:disqus I seriously need to ask this now: Where are you from and where have you been in your life?

        Have you ever been to any central European country and lived there? If so, have you ever read the news, had contact to police officers or had trouble with cops?

        Cops in Europe probably have the 2nd worst job available because their rights are very limited and they are always on the brink of getting penalties, no matter what they do in basically whatever situation.
        Police authority? hahaha for Europe

        • Zappa Frank

          Germandude, at my side he is right. Don’t know if you have any news about what happen in Italy, but I think even you heard about the Genoa’s G8. Many other times happened that someone arrested got killed and in the end it turned out always in a “natural” death.. May be true that police legally don’t have a lot of power, however if they beat you to death apparently no one get condemned.
          I read same things happened in France. And consider that it goes on the newspaper only when it is about a European citizen, with immigrants they basically can do whatever they want..

          • Germandude

            Come on Zappa. You are not comparing police activities at the G8 with some Chengguan daily adventure, do you?

            How many times do police officers in Italy get away with mistreating normal citizens?
            Right, hardly ever. Also, it hardly ever happens, because they know the law doesn’t allow them the freedom of free acting as they wish. Especially Italian police is pretty tight considering the danger of corruption through Mafia organizations.

          • Zappa Frank

            G8 was just the a huge thing, but many others similar happened and happen still now.. You ask how many times do this happen? not often, I agree, but still when it happens policemen are always covered and justified. They know laws don’t allow them this freedom, as it doesn’t allow this freedom to the chengguans, but in the end they result unpunished as well as chengguans… and again is not about be tight for fighting mafia, it is always the strength used against weak people that cannot react. You had the SA and SS in Germany during Nazi’s time, we had the fascist squads as well and many policemen think they can do the same.. I can assure you that almost 70 or 80% of policemen in Italy, in their home, still have the big picture of Mussolini on the wall.

          • Germandude

            I have family (Italians) living in Northern Italy (Lago di Garda area) and they would pretty much disagree with you if you suggest that the police has a free-to-go blank sheet when it comes to their job.
            I’d agree with you if you refer to southern Italy, especially Sicily and the like.

          • Zappa Frank

            I don’t agree with them.. no I’m not referring to south, but to central north, because those kinds of things happen mostly there. Actually in sicily and south are the places where police beat less..

            I don’t say police can do everything, but I can assure than when it something happen they are always covered.

            Just to say some of them:

            Sandro Sandri, Federico Aldrovandi, Stefano Cucchi, Giuseppe Uva, Riccardo Rasman

            unlucky all websites are just in Italian, except for this one:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federico_Aldrovandi
            18years old, killed by police for NOTHING.. and how many years did policemen got? six months..or better nothing. they didn’t even lose their job.

            all killed by police for futile reasons and policemen always unpunished.

          • Rick in China

            G8? You mean G7, right?

          • Zappa Frank
          • Rick in China

            Oh, that old G8 thing. The G7 now. :D

          • whuddyasack

            And consider that it goes on the newspaper only when it is about a European citizen, with immigrants they basically can do whatever they want…

            And ain’t that the truth for just about every country? The only outliers are if the victim is White where the abuse would become international news condemning the human rights abuse of nation X. Muslim countries form the outlier on the other end of the scale. They just don’t give a crap about “image” or human rights, gleefully chopping the heads of foreigners. What’s amazing is these same people are the biggest complainers in Europe, and also by far form the majority of Europe’s criminal base.

            Either way it is easy to google or youtube police brutality around the world.

          • Zappa Frank

            “white” is an expression that you have among yourself and eventually in US, but it has no meaning for most Europeans.
            I can assure that ‘white’ east Europeans are not considered any better than Africans of Muslim. When I say European I mean a citizen.

          • whuddyasack

            Fair enough. But what I’m actually talking about is the perception of these countries and people in general. Most countries in Latin America, Asia and Africa are somewhat naive and tend to pigeonhole “White” as a single entity. A prisoner with a Western passport, i.e. North American or Northern/Central/Western European i.e. Britain, France, Germany, Italy would obviously be treated with more care in Myanmar, China, Cambodia, India etc. for fear of media backlash. I don’t mean this in an offensive or bitter way, I understand and accept the way it is.

            In the same vein, countries like Afghanistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Somalia, Iran wouldn’t really care if the prisoner was from the “West” or not. In fact, I think they feel even more animosity towards prisoners that they view as hailing from “Western” countries due to religious reasons and conflict.

            Yes, perhaps it is different in Europe but when it comes to East Europeans or MENAs (specifically Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanian (gypsies) and Middle Easterners), they don’t have it easy in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ either.

          • Zappa Frank

            I don’t know how people from some countries treat prisoners, but more than about the race I would say is about the country of origin. I don’t think that a back American would be treated worse than a white American once they realize that are still from the same country.
            I want point out that ‘white’ is a term that do not exist in Europe, no one of us define himself as ‘white’, as no one of Asian define himself as ‘yellow’.

          • whuddyasack

            A Black American wouldn’t be treated any worse, just like an Asian American would also be treated better in much the same vein as an Indian or a duskier, darker Caucasian would be treated worse. You are right, nationality plays a bigger role but people still stereotype that which is different. My initial guess is that the term “White” has North American or at most British origins. This is evident when we look at records and letters from other European explorers who never used that term. It’s just like the term “yellow” didn’t originate from Asia proper. However, many Asians (actually primarily Chinese and Japanese) do think that they have “yellow” skin. Switch on the TV or read any some comments and you’ll see that they do make jokes about it too ;-)

        • Rick in China

          My sister in law is a police officer in Canada and I agree with you for the most part – they have highly stressful jobs and absolutely don’t have the same leniency as, say, a lot of American cities on abuses of power. Also – in Canada at least – police have to be university-educated and have some real-life experience before they’re able to become officers.. they don’t allow people to do a quick criminal justice associates degree and join up out of school, there are actual requirements! I’m sure it’s the same in lots of countries.

        • Free Man

          May I remind you of some recent cases of police violence in bavaria? The young lady, who was tied with hand cuffs and pushed down by 6 (!!!!) police men and then got her nose broken, because she spat at one of them and he claimed she was attacking him (while being handcuffed and pushed down)?????

          I can also tell some personal stories of cops harrassing me just because I look like a pot head (ok, I am a pot head, but still)…

          • Germandude

            Spitting at police officers is probably not the best idea if you ask me. Come to think about it. I think she would have received a slap if she’d pulled that off during Oktoberfest with any of its visitor.
            Lesson learned: Don’t spit at others…

            What were the consequences for the police officers? That’s the interesting part.

          • Free Man

            The woman didn’t do anything wrong, she called the cops herself because of domestic violence and was arrested together with her boyfriend. In such a situation I would rage and try to do much more than just spitting. I mean, she called for help and gets arrested. Do you call this proper behaviour from a “good” police force?

            Consequences: even though all his colleagues testified that he didn’t do anything wrong, the police man who hit her was sentenced to 10 months on probation (so no real consequences at all). 2 months more and he would have lost his job and pension. But that never happens in Bavaria.

        • Guest

          Hi, i just wanted to add that, in the United States this is the kind of attitude that is prevalent among cops that I meet:
          I am always extremely careful around them, because I always sense that at any sign of disrespect, the cops will start fucking with you or fucking you over. I think it’s kind of unjust that they have the power to fuck you over whenever they feel like it.

        • Barack Obama

          Hi, i just wanted to add that, in the United States this is the kind of attitude that is prevalent among cops that I meet:
          I am always extremely careful around them, because I sense that at any sign of disrespect, the cops will start fucking with you or fucking you over. I think it’s kind of unjust that they have the power to fuck you over whenever they feel like it.

      • whuddyasack

        Not all. But many. This is particularly prevalent in developing countries but cop power trips are also common in places you least expect.

        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/san-antonio-cuffed-raped-19-year-old-traffic-stop-police-article-1.1527459

    • whuddyasack

      You couldn’t state this often enough. The corrupting influence of power amongst those from a poor background is what sickens me. Instead of understanding or showing empathy towards those of a similar background, they instead choose to further oppress those like them. Actually, I take that back. Chengguan might’ve been from a poorer background than the city folk, but they aren’t poor enough to be scraping around for scrounges. They didn’t have to fight just to survive and they enjoy far more benefits than the poorest of the poor in China. They can still attain a job, drive a car, watch TV, use a cyber cafe, read the news and interact with people from all backgrounds. All things denied to the poorest and most vulnerable.

      Around the world, most of the most horrific crimes are committed by the working class and their offspring and not those living way below the poverty line.

      • Mighty曹

        “corrupting influence of power”. You are spot on!

        Hey bro, where’s that email?

        • whuddyasack

          Yes, notice how most people with some form of power seem to abuse it. The less confidence you have, the more likely you are to abuse it. You can see this everywhere, in justice systems, in games, in blogs, in forums, etc. Usually, the most abusive person is a teeny weenie wee fellow in real life. At least that’s what I observed in some other forum. This moderator was always cussing and swearing and mouthing off at everyone, giving them death threats and banning them whenever he was pushed to a corner. He was a professional MMA champion in his time and served the army. 200lbs of solid muscle, apparently and once held his own against the mafia. He also enjoyed picking on “female” members or kids lol

          But here’s where the power trip truly corrupted him. He was so feared and had so many brown nosers that he started to feel like a superstar. So he decided to post a picture of himself, and most of us secretly had to laugh. I found it very difficult to take him seriously after that and every time he threatened to king hit or bitchslap some member. Well… well… well… hahahaha

          Email XD. It’s coming bro. BIG one ;-)

          • Mighty曹

            LOL! So was he really the 200 pounds of muscle MMA champ? Actually that’s the downfall of most corrupt leaders and dictators. They reach the point where they get too comfortable suppressing the populace with the iron fist that the tend to slip. Sadly, it usually takes a whole generation or so as with Saddam and Kahdafy.

          • whuddyasack

            He was 200 pounds alright. 200lbs of fat, and since fat has less mass than muscle, that’s how BIG our man really is. I’m sure he can throw a mean punch on a small child or girl though. That’s assuming if he has the energy to lift his humongous ass out of his chair hahaha.

            I agree. Usually with a lot of corrupt leaders and dictators, time and “pride” is their own worse enemy. They reach a point where they think they are invincible and then BAM they lose everything. Prior to what happened in Iraq, did you know that Saddam was boasting that he would destroy Israel or something along those lines. In the case of dictators and leaders, I think the most tragic of all is what actually happens to the civilian population of said dictatorship. They suffer under the dictatorship in peace time, and they have to worry about being blown to bits during war time.

          • Mighty曹

            That’s too funny! 200 lbos of fat to match his ego. lol

            True, the people always suffer under dictatorships. That’s why I never agree with sanctions that are supposedly to punish these rouge leaders because it only further hurt the people. We don’t see the fat Kims suffering all these time amid sanctions and embargoes.

          • whuddyasack

            Yeah true that, nothing like ego blubber hahaha

            Completely agree with the sanctions yet sometimes they can be effective for toppling regimes. Even then, I think it ultimately hurts the people not the leaders as these are the people slaving for dictators for nothing. The one thing I won’t support no matter what is the gloating some not-so-brights have over random shithole dictatorship. They make fun of the starving civilians and I think that is really quite low.

    • fibblesquibble

      Hey man, long time no see. It seems some of the oldies have disappeared, I’m back though:-) catch up later.

      • Mighty曹

        Hey welcome back! How’s it going? What handle/name were you using before?

  • Probotector

    It staggers me how easily some people in China deal out death so wantonly.

    • Irvin

      They didn’t wanna kill the guy, the guy just die due to unable to withstand the awesome might of the chengguan.

      • Rick in China

        Right! Chengguan didn’t kill him – he killed himself on the chengguan, when you see a rock, you don’t smash into it!

    • mr.wiener

      Life is cheap ,but toilet paper is expensive.

      • Probotector

        I know, it just went up in price.

      • Rick in China

        Actually toilet paper is cheap in China relative to western countries! It’s one of the things I mention that are “way cheaper” here, unlike other things like nice restaurants (overpriced for what you get in Chengdu, let alone Shanghai) and gasoline. TP, socks, common shit is all super cheap in China :D Street vendors I suppose, are considered common things.

        • hess

          You think gas is expensive in China? I’m jealous of what ever gas costs in Canada… Cause it’s about 14kuai a litre here in Sweden

      • fibblesquibble

        Still cleaning the toilets are we? Give up on the moderator job man, and come back posting like you used to!

        • mr.wiener

          Hey, it’s a dirty job, but someones gotta do it. How’ve you been mate? Long time no post.

          • fibblesquibble

            Keeping low key, working most of the time. Lost my password too;-) Where’s ma friend eatot?!

          • mr.wiener

            She went full retard and had to be put down.
            I told her to get that rabies shot.

          • fibblesquibble

            Ah man I missed the fun! How you been? Putting out the fires here as usual?

          • mr.wiener

            It got…..interesting for a while there. [eattot]
            I’ve been brown-trousering the naughty and barring the gates against the trolls, this last story has been fun, all the anti-semites have oozed out from under their rocks.
            Going out to a launch for a friend’s beer company now. hope to tilt a few back, hope you do too mate.
            Don’t burn the place down while i’m gone :)

          • fibblesquibble

            Don’t burn the place down while i’m gone :)

            As long as I don’t suffer from a relapse all will be well upon your return;-)

            Nah, I’ll behave. Heading home soon, light one up later and go into chill mode. Have fun with the beer event man, see ya later.

    • fibblesquibble

      Like the noodle soup thingy you mean?

  • Probotector

    The Chengguan are supposed to be a local government law enforcement agency, but from the stories put forth here it seems they are increasingly becoming a modern-day Einsatzgruppen.

    • Irvin

      HAIL CHENGGUAN!

    • Honibaz

      I disagree. The Einsatzgruppen in WWII were sophisticated and organized, and what destruction they inflicted were largely on foreign soil. The Chengguan on the other hand create more chaos than order, and are responsible for oppressing their own kind. The latter are no different than uneducated thugs whose actions are condoned by the government.

    • Germandude

      More like SA and SS in the 30s. Those were the streetfighters.

    • Dick Leigh

      I think the only reason the Chengguan are still around is the government doesn’t want to lose face by getting rid of them.

  • bujiebuke

    Someone please tell me this article is fake. Do the chengguan really have assistants to help them ruin the lives of others? How many assistants does each chengguan get? How many levels of corruptions are we talking about here??

    • Dick Leigh

      I think it’s one of those “China Things” that doesn’t happen anywhere else. The different types of police get their own assistants too. How this is efficient when none of them carry guns, I have no clue.

    • fibblesquibble

      New in town?

      • bujiebuke

        Hehe, not at all. I know about the chengguan, but I had no idea that these cronies had assistants as well. This was the first time I’ve ever heard about the xieguan.

  • Insomnicide

    Give me a thousand chengguan, and I’ll conquer Japan in a day.

    • IsurvivedChina

      The Chengguan would piss their pants in face of the Japanese, the chengguan are only strong at beating up poor defenceless old people… I’m sorry but your comment is as stupid as it sounds!

      • Guang Xiang

        Piss their pants and betray their comrades so that they can survive more like

        • whuddyasack

          Exactly! Where were the courageous chengguan during the Xinjiang riots or Kunming knife attack? Anything other than the elderly, women or children of Han ethnicity is too challenging, too “dangerous” for them. Cowards to the core.

          • Insomnicide

            Well if they attacked non-Han, it would be considered hatecrime and racism. People would be talking idiotic nonsense again about ‘Han oppression’ of Tibetans and Uyghurs, etc. etc.

          • Zappa Frank

            you mean like every time happen something to a han in a western country and than it becomes a sino-phobic crime and Chinese scream that should destroy that country who’s populated by evil people?

          • whuddyasack

            And how do you know the victim was a Han and not a Zhuang, Miao, Korean or similar ethnic minority? When people talk about “Sinophobic” crimes, they don’t make the distinction between Han and other ethnics. They don’t even make the distinction between Chinese, Taiwanese, etc.

          • Zappa Frank

            I simply have the 93% to be right.. abroad my chance become 99%…

          • whuddyasack

            Hahaha I see your point. But don’t you think people from “oppressed groups” are the more likely to move out of a country? Trust me on this, once they step out of China, Taiwan, HK, whatever, it doesn’t matter what ethnic minority they belong to. They all suddenly become “Chinese” with Chinese names; the exception being certain groups like Uighurs, Tibetans and Mongols

          • Zappa Frank

            because actually Tibetans, Mongols, Uighurs and few others are the only real minorities, the rest of the ‘minorities’ have long time lost their culture, and all that remain is their show with exotics costumes during the tv program for the new year…
            Taiwanese and HK are not considered as Chinese mainlander at all, I know you guys always push on this, but sorry, it simply false. We may say they are Chinese with the meaning that they are culturally Chinese and racially Chinese, but still far different from mainlanders.

          • whuddyasack

            I would be careful with what I say Frank. What you’re saying is actually not too different to what many accuse the Chinese of practicing, i.e. cultural genocide by denying ethnic minorities their traditions. They still have their own language, scripts, dances, practices and traditions. Their identity isn’t limited to just a couple of colorful costumes.

            As for your second point, I haven’t really seen anyone in the US, Canada or Australia able to differentiate a Taiwanese or mainlander living in the West apart just by looking at the physical characteristics. I don’t blame them, even I can’t tell us apart haha

          • Zappa Frank

            i don’t mean cultural genocide, i mean just normal and plain assimilation.. after centuries within han what else could happen? even jewish in china were completely assimilated. The differences now are just superficial and will be less and less.
            If you mean we should differentiate Chinese mainlander or TW just looking the physical characteristic i’m sorry to disappoint you, but than we can’t even see the difference among Chinese-Koreans-japans-Vietnamese and sometimes even thai.. i would include Myanmar people, laos, cambogia and so on, but I’ve never seen them.. but if just for that even Chinese sometimes cannot say who is Chinese or Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese and so on.. what is the point of this? we differentiate for behavior, education, manners, and so on…

          • whuddyasack

            Yes, but the point is those ethnic minorities still have their own culture and traditions. I don’t think they are that different from Tibetans and Uighurs, the only difference is they don’t have any land to go back to and aren’t really in conflict with the “Han” majority, i.e. the assimilation that you speak of. However, their validity as separate minorities still stands and is more than just superficial. There’s currently a Manchu script and culture revival for instance.

            Yes, I do agree that physically even Chinese can’t tell apart Vietnamese, Japanese, Laotian and similar Asians so it’s not something I begrudge others of. Doing so is trivial since we tend to look similar anyway.

            All I’m saying is that if some violent crime happens to a Hong Konger or Taiwanese due to racism then the crime would be considered “Sinophobia” as well. I’m aware a difference is made by the more worldly Occidentals but at the same time, for many an Asian is an Asian. It works both ways.

          • Insomnicide

            Or Tibetans, Mongols, Uyghurs are the only ones who have a grudge with the Han Chinese. The other minorities, especially the Hui and the Miao have had historically a very positive relationship with the Han civilization. They don’t see themselves as Chinese out of the lack of culture, rather they see themselves as Chinese BECAUSE of their culture.

          • fibblesquibble

            A grudge you say? I believe the word you couldn’t find is ‘grievance’.

          • Mighty曹

            That is correct too.

          • Mighty曹

            That’s precisely what I go through. Here in the States I’m just ‘Chinese’ or even on a broader term, ‘Asian’.

          • hess

            Being called “Asian” ain’t too bad though, I wouldn’t mind if a fellow redneck racist Swede called me “European”. I’m 100% Swedish (really dark haired and dark brown eyed walloon*) and I’ve been told told to fuck of back to my country once lol
            *Swedish walloon, as in my ancestors came to these lands 200+ years ago

          • Mighty曹

            Being called “Asian” is not bad at all. I prefer that because it means the person is not being ignorant and making assumption that I’m Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. It shows he’s knowledgeable of other Asian nationalities besides Chinese.

          • whuddyasack

            Asian ain’t such a bad term really. I actually embrace the term and I think the diversity in experiences and culture between the different Asian diaspora the is truly fascinating. From the Hmong to the Laotians, the Japanese to the Filipinos, the Inuit and Central Asians, to the Native Americans and Canadians there’s always something new we learn about each other, yet there’s also something that somehow keeps us connected. In Western countries at least ;-)

          • Mighty曹

            No, I didn’t mean to say I took offence to it. As a matter of fact I prefer people to call me Asian instead of assuming that I was Chinese, Japanese, or any other nationality. When someone refers me as an Asian it means he’s not being ignorant, instead, he’s being cautious and use it to include a broad range of people who similar. hahaha….

          • whuddyasack

            Ahhh very nice way of putting it. Sometimes it’s just so ridiculous when you think about it. It’s like a lose-lose situation, eh? They specify what type of Asian we are, often incorrectly. They get slammed as a racist or ignorant. They ask what type of Asian we are. Again, someone accuses of being racist. Finally, they group all Asians together and once again some demonize them as racist people.

            Someone could be anyone, and I’ve realized that nowadays many Asians aren’t as sensitive as they once were, which is encouraging. To me, we should always look at the positive side of things and never assume the worst of someone else unless they’ve earned the disrespect somehow. I like your style hahaha ;-)

          • Mighty曹

            Yeah, one time there were these two Mormon missionaries – in suit and tie – who stopped me to spread their Jehovah’s Witnesses glory. After a couple of minutes speaking to me in English, one of them points to the other and goes, “Peter here speaks Vietnamese”. I replied, “Oh that’s great but I’m Chinese”. He continued, “You can speak Vietnamese with him”. By now I’m truly annoyed (I’m sure you can see why?). LOL

            I like it when a stranger asks, “You are Asian, right?” [“yes”]. “Oh, where are you from?”. First he establishes a region with a broad term ‘Asian’. Then asks for the exact location/nationality. Unlike those ignorant Mormom fools.

          • whuddyasack

            You know something, Mighty? I completely know how you feel. But that’s another thing about Mormons, their insistence on being right and even making eye contact with a Mormon would leave you pestered to no end hahaha. They just won’t stop talking and won’t even allow you to speak. They remind me of the age old vampire sometimes, once you let them in, it’s so hard to get rid of them.

          • Insomnicide

            Just like every time something happens to a foreigner, usually white/European in China and it becomes a xenaphobic hatecrime and foreigners and expats scream that China is populated by evil barbaric slanty eyed people that need to genocided.

          • fibblesquibble

            Care to provide evidence for your rant?

          • whuddyasack

            Couldn’t agree more about the ridiculous accusations of “Han racism”, a stupid made up term in the same vein as “Burakumin discrimination”. That stiffling nonsense is ridiculous coming from the same people who abuse their indigenous populations like no tomorrow. Case in point, Canada… and yes… I’m Canadian.

            http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/03/07/conservatives_reject_inquiry_for_murdered_missing_aboriginal_women.html

            http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/03/07/conservatives_reject_inquiry_for_murdered_missing_aboriginal_women.html

            But you have to admit, the cowardice of the chengguan is still contemptuous. They still fear picking on those with power or some means to defend themselves.

          • Probotector

            There do exist Han Chinese who are racist towards other Chinese ethnic groups, so you can’t say it’s a made up term.

            “I feel far more affinity to the natives there, , much more pleasant and “politer” people in general than the White Canadians, especially the French speaking queers in Quebec. They make me sick.”

            Yes you would because they’re of Asian descent, and you’re an Asian nationalist who has a low opinion of white people. Also, your statements are both racist and homophobic.

          • fibblesquibble

            He’s a mainlander. What did you actually expect from him? Logic? By the way, glad to see you are still here, its been quite a while:-)

          • whuddyasack

            Pfft. This coming from the same dudette that made this embarrassing comment:

            A grudge you say? I believe the word you couldn’t find is ‘grievance’.

            First learn to take a joke before speaking of logic lauwwdy hahaha!

          • fibblesquibble

            Ah you fell right for it! It was just my way saying hello:-) how you been bro?

          • whuddyasack

            Actually, I was just playing along and knew it was you old boy XD. That picture lol. Solved the riddle quite a while ago and believe me it was so tempting to prolong my act and save the revelation till later. Do you still remember saying that you’d like to cross wits with me every once in a while? Well, I figured this was as good a time as any to do so ;-P

            Been such a while since I talked to you. So Riddler, do/did you post under any new accounts other than fibblesquibble on other blogs? Did I miss anything other than you, bro? ;-)

            Yes, I’ve been busy but great. I’m alive. How about yourself? OK, I wished you dropped by and said hello about 2 weeks earlier so you could exclaim “April Fools'” just so that I could reply with my own gotcha phrase but that’s just being childish. I hope you’ve been taking care of yourself well and hang around longer my friend hahaha

          • whuddyasack

            Well, Probotector, I’m not denying that there are some Han Chinese who are racist towards Chinese ethnic groups, mostly hot-headed nationalist and the narrow-minded older generation. But even then, the ethnic groups discriminated against are almost entirely limited to Uighurs and Tibetans and that’s just a tiny minority. FYI, most Chinese don’t form hate groups and websites dedicated to bashing and slaughtering the minorities due to racial hatred. In fact, when you take population into account, you rarely hear of assaults in China. Period. For further reference, there exists very few words dedicated to insulting people of different ethnicities. “Savages, coons, niggers, gooks, nips, bagheads” don’t exist in the Chinese dictionary.

            So there you are claiming that white people shit on people of a non-white ethnicity while simultaneously shitting on white people
            yourself.

            Where did I claim that? I’m merely pointing out the hypocrisy in labelling Chinese people racist and I’m saying Native Americans are also oppressed, yet no one seems to care for them the same way they care for similar a thousand miles away. And they are oppressed. Also, I was talking about White “Canadians” in general, not every White person and not even every White Canadian.

            has a low opinion of white people.

            Actually, I have a high opinion of white people and like you guys a lot. There’s only one group I have a low opinion of but it’s more to do with practices than the actual people. I might be slightly biased towards people that look like me but that doesn’t mean I feel white people are inferior or scum.

            And at least I’m honest enough to admit that. What you’re seeing is merely the recognition of some differences between the various races. That line disparaging the French Canadians with slurs shouldn’t be taken seriously. It was a stupid outburst and I’ve removed it. If you knew the same ones I knew, I’m sure you’d feel the same. Basically those two I knew were hated by “everyone” in school and were often bullied and picked on by other “White” Canadians.

          • Kai

            I’m pretty sure his “affinity” has little to do with aboriginals in Canada tracing their ancestry back to “Asian” migration and has more to do with them suffering some injustice or discrimination at the hands of “white people”. I’m pretty sure it’s more of a “common enemy” thing rather than a “common identity” thing. The aboriginal Asian descent argument therefore feels like a reach.

          • Probotector

            Anything to defend Asian racism eh Kai?

          • Kai

            Don’t be a dick, Probotector, I’ve regularly criticized whuddyasack’s bigotry on cS. I’ve arguably criticized him for his comments more than I’ve criticized you for yours. Me thinking your argument is a reach doesn’t equate to me defending his bigotry, much less “Asian” bigotry.

          • Probotector

            Well fair enough, I did see you talking to him just now. Still, a lot of people, not only me, do believe that you seem to take the Chinese side of the argument more often than not. In any case, to address the issue of affinity, you saw the links to the articles he posted. Now, what suffering has he endured at the hands of ‘white people’ compared to these people?

          • Kai

            I’m sure a lot of people do, and I believe those people are unable to get above the “us vs them” dynamic, the “us vs Chinese” dynamic. Can’t we say whuddyasack takes a “Chinese” side of an argument? If I disagree with him, then would I still be taking a “Chinese” side of an argument? Or would you grant that there may be more than one “side”, even among the “Chinese”? Would you grant that there can be sides in an argument that aren’t delineated by race/ethnicity/nationality/etc.? That they may be delineated by things such as facts/rationality/reason/persuasiveness/etc.?

            You can probably guess that I don’t think I’m taking the “Chinese side” in an argument but some “loftier” side of what I consider objective fairness or truth. You may not think that side is objectively fair or true, but you at least understand that I don’t see myself as picking sides based on mere race/ethnicity/nationality/etc., right? To the extent that you may think so, it is inherently offensive to me, just as it would be offensive to you if I dismissed your criticisms and argument as simply taking some “British” or “white” side of an argument. If you can understand how that characterization of your position is obnoxious and intellectually dishonest, try not to use the same dismissal against those who disagree with you. It’s simply intellectually lazy.

            When you do so, it is no different from how some Chinese netizens accuse other Chinese netizens of being “foreign running dogs” or of “worshiping the foreign” just because they disagree with some nationalistic sentiment.

            whuddyasack didn’t link to those articles to say his suffering is comparable to those people. That’s why I said:

            I’m pretty sure it’s more of a “common enemy” thing rather than a “common identity” thing.

            He’s using their suffering to further criticize (or bash) white people. It’s like people who link to articles about TIbetan suffering but haven’t experienced comparable suffering. The whole point is in using it to criticize a specific target, a shared enemy (for the context of the issue), a “common enemy”.

            This is a far more common and likely reason behind his action than you thinking he identifies with them based on shared but ancient and distant ancestry. That’s a huge reach and the only reason you did that is because you were invested in fleshing out an “Asian nationalism” accusation. Would a Mexican complaint about white prejudice fall under “Asian nationalism”? They also have shared Asian ancestry being descendents of European and Native American intermixing, right?

            I scoffed at your argument because it was a reach, because there was something silly in your thought process, not because I’m invested in defending Asian bigotry. It’s like John Stewart scoffing at Christians who commented on Noah (the movie) not being a “documentary”.

          • Insomnicide

            What’s wrong with people taking the ‘Chinese’ side of the argument if people are allowed to take the ‘anti-Chinese’ side of the argument? And to be fair, you make a lot harsher and insulting remarks than whuddyasack in your arguments. That’s more alarming than taking sides.

          • Probotector

            The point is Kai’s claiming to be impartial, when often people perceive he is not. Now, I’m harsher and more insulting than whuddyasack? Really? Did I make any racist or homophobic comments like he did? Have you read what that guy writes?

            “…much more pleasant and “politer” people in general than the White Canadians, especially the French speaking queers in Quebec. They make me sick.”

            “How typically Caucasian”

            Now, find any post I’ve made that matches insults on the same level.

          • mr.wiener

            Was a time a while back when you and ‘shack would have at each other and it was just a case of Tweedledum and Tweedledummer. I think you have both mellowed a bit since then, barring the odd bit of half arsed retardedness.
            I think you’re being a bit hard on Kai. It ain’t easy dealing with some folk who automatically assume you are taking the other side of the argument just by virtue of your ethnicity.
            I remember some American Chinese twit a while back who went full mental on me over some quote from Mark Twain. After he got moderated he was sending posts off to Kai for months claiming I was the anti-Christ and an opium war denier :)

          • Insomnicide

            Now on this article, whuddyasack did go all out. But for the last few articles, your comments haven’t been so tame and reserved either. Maybe you guys go back and forth with this, but as of late your comments are the more insulting ones.

            As for Kai, or any other moderator on CS, they’re impartial and as objective as they can be in the context. It’s not wrong to ask them to be fairer, but calling someone a racist while bashing Han Chinese people…that is something else.

          • Probotector

            “but as of late your comments are the more insulting ones.”

            For example?

            I didn’t call Kai a racist, I said he’s defending Asian bigotry, and I never ‘bashed’ Han Chinese; I never made that distinction by using the word ‘Han’. All I said was “To be fair, the majority of Chinese are truly ignorant, regardless of age or demographic.” How is that a statement of racism?

          • Kai

            A common problem I have with people who claim I am not impartial is that they are not addressing my actual disagreements with them but instead leap-frogging to accusing me of being biased as a fallacious way to discredit or distract from my disagreement with them.

            The fact is, no one is perfectly impartial. No one. It’s just not humanly possible in my opinion. I don’t think I am and I wouldn’t claim to be. However, the fact is there are certainly differing degrees of how much one TRIES. I think I try very hard.

            When I disagree with someone, I do my best to make sure my arguments pertain to the content of the speech, not the racial identity of the speaker.

          • Rick in China

            “I’m Canadian and I feel far more affinity to the natives there, much more pleasant and “politer” people in general”

            Are you SERIOUS? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

            Except for the fact they almost exclusively stick to reservations, are unfortunately exposed to massive alcoholism and inter-family rapings/beatings/etc routinely without any way for the Canadian gov’t to really intervene in tribal affairs, and are notorious for — when off reservation — being extremely likely to be both drunk and aggressive / trying to start fights on the streets. Yes, so, so polite.

            I feel bad for most who are born on reserves there – some are great people, but it’s an extremely difficult place to escape from – and I’m not trying to put them down as a people by any means.. the ones who managed to escape the grasp will surely tell you exactly the same thing. I remember one time my brother takes me up to this shithole town near a reserve to meet some girl or something, goes into a pool hall/bar briefly to talk to someone and I wait outside. I was like, 12, just chillin. Native kid and his dad with a case of beer walk by, drunk, kinda slows down to a stop and faces me and in a thick native accent the kid goes, “wa cha luh kin at, why te bwoy”.. I was almost ready to laugh, and the father says “cuh mon bih ly, we dun want no truh bul to day”.

            So f’in polite. You got it.

          • whuddyasack

            Yes, Rick. I’m serious. Your whole post reads like the typical hoser, always resorting to the “alcoholic” natives to make your point. I’ve seen plenty of interactions between the Native Canadians and the majority, almost always hostile. Here’s the thing. White Canadians band together, with occasional help from the rednecks down South and together they’d lambast the natives. You might not know it, but in both America and Canada, Native Americans are the most likely targets of rape particularly in Alaska. Victims describe the rapists as “outsiders” who belong to neither family nor community. Laws actually protect these rapists.

            I’m glad you’re aware of the poverty in the reserves and how tough life actually is there. However, I’ve had friends that grew up in the reserves and they used to invite me there. None of my friends are violent, rude, alcoholic or aggressive.

            Now do you want to know why the native peoples of America are more polite than White Canadians? Firstly, they don’t have as many slurs as the majority or organize groups to hate on every other ethnicity and race for being different.

            Secondly, and more importantly, they aren’t like the White “chugs” who riot and brawl, injure and kill over stuff as trivial as a game. This happens almost every year.

            http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/riots-erupt-in-vancouver-after-canucks-loss-1.993707

            http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/40857-Heres-a-list-of-significant-hockey-riots-in-Canada.html

            They say hockey is Canada’s national sport, but IMO it’s rioting since “White” Canadians do it so well.

          • Mighty曹

            Bonjour, mon frère! lol I see you don’t care much for the eastern part. Go BC!

          • whuddyasack

            Bonjour frère Mighty. Ça va ? Haha, BC for life baby! Actually, I do care for Eastern Canada, just not so much for the French croaking frogs in Quebec ;-)

          • Mighty曹

            Hahaha yeah!! BC for life! VYR is my second home!
            I have to admit I took two years of Francai. I regret not taking Espanol as I’m in Calif.

          • whuddyasack

            Hahaha that’s awesome. Well, you certainly chose the classier language of the two. It is the language of romance after all. But yeah, to be honest, I think Spanish is the more interesting and “useful” of the two languages. And it makes for easier listening (to my ears at least). Actually, I have friends from Colombia, Venezuela and Peru and sometimes I really do wish I could surprise them with some pro Espanol haha.

            But if there was a language I do regret not taking it would be Japanese for sure. Now as for languages that I’ve always dreamed of learning but probably never will, they’d be Inuktitut and Yakut. I think part of the awesomeness is in the rarity of the languages. I also watched a video of a lovely lady singing Yakut songs and I’ve got to say the language sounded beautiful. But I think what’s most wonderful in learning these languages is actually coming up to a community of native speakers and having an unexpected and pleasant conversation with them.

            All are incredibly immature reasons. I’d admit I’m not a language person though lol

          • Mighty曹

            That’s some very interesting choices. I’m a big language fan and I watch mostly foreign movies to be exposed to the languages. I’ve even seen “Atanarjuat (The Fast Runner)” in Inuit language.

          • whuddyasack

            Wow, awesome. You truly are a man of surprises, of many talents and interests bro. ;-)

          • nickhz

            french speaking queers? wow, you are an idiot

          • whuddyasack

            No, simply experienced and all knowing of the French and their willy ways. You’d feel the same way if you studied in the same high school I did.

          • nickhz

            I am canadian. spent a lot of my time in quebec with french speaking people. and you are still an idiot. and a bigot

          • Kai

            It seems you’ve edited your comment but I still want to say your double-standards when it comes to prejudice gives people like Probotector ammo to dismiss anyone who objects to his prejudice as “Asian nationalists”. You hoping other people will find humor in “French speaking queers in Quebec” is essentially the same behavior as how many people comment about Chinese people on here that you object to. I’ve communicated this to you before countless times but your hypocrisy really hurts your credibility here, as well as any hope for less petty prejudice on cS.

          • whuddyasack

            Well, I’ve edited my comment because it was causing some people to bristle. To be honest, it doesn’t take much for someone like Probotector to dismiss others and hold his own views. He’s done it with a lot less and I’m not the sole target of his dismissal.

            In this case, I didn’t mean the Quebec thing as a slight towards all White people. I was having a discussion with Insomnicide about some of the hypocrisy in Csmackers when they were condemning “Han racism” when it came to the Tibetans and Uighurs but yet this outrage was absent when the native peoples of America were also oppressed. I wasn’t expecting other people to pick my comment apart. But you know, it’s strange. It seems some people are used to dishing out prejudice but can’t seem to take it.

            Kai, are you aware of the drama over Suey Park that raged for days? I agree that she didn’t use the wisest choice of words but the backlash was even more hilarious. I mean threatening her with violence and rape over a couple of words… the antiques were so primitive, so clannish and so uncivilized that you just couldn’t take what they called the “satire high ground” seriously.

            But I keep forgetting these are the same people whose “satire high ground” stops at this:

            http://www.xojane.com/issues/8-reasons-people-of-color-must-rally-for-white-history-month

            P.S. There are no crickets chirping in the above article. Only the loud, noisy, mouth-foaming screams of outrage and desecration.

          • Kai

            Yes, I noticed you edited your comment and that’s at least better than unapologetically standing by it and defending it. Still, you know I wish you didn’t have such prejudices in the first place, just as much as I wish Probotector didn’t have his.

            And it’s not just Probotector. You ultimately hurt your credibility in the eyes of anyone who actually wants to sympathize with you but are turned off by your own hypocritical prejudices.

            I didn’t say your Quebec thing was a slight towards all white people. What is a slight is this:

            “I feel far more affinity to the natives there, , much more pleasant and “politer” people in general than the White Canadians, especially the French speaking queers in Quebec. They make me sick.”

            There’s as much prejudice and thus offensiveness in this as Probotector’s “the vast majority of Chinese people are truly ignorant” statement. Here, you basically bring up the natives simply in order to put down white people. This is a roundabout way of expressing a prejudiced/racist sentiment.

            It seems some people are used to dishing out prejudice but can’t seem to take it.

            Sure, but that doesn’t excuse your own prejudice. When you complain about prejudice and dish your own, then aren’t you also one of those people who are used to dishing it out but can’t seem to take it? Are you going to argue they dished it out first? That’s a pointless argument. The only way to win is to not play, and that means not dishing out prejudice.

            Yes, I’m aware of the Suey Park drama. Another person asked me about it and I linked to a Quora article with some commentary I liked about it. I’m of the school that everyone is responsible for their idiocy and the idiocy of one doesn’t diminish the idiocy of another. Suey Park was arguably idiotic in her actions, as were many of her detractors or “Colbert defenders”. One doesn’t absolve the other.

            But back on topic: stop being prejudiced and hypocritically so at that. It’s hella obnoxious. A person who chafes at being the victim of prejudice should know better. Stop living down to what people like Probotector want you to be to justify their own prejudices. You’re not hurting their feelings, you’re simply feeding their prejudices, and that in turn hurts everyone who has to put up with them.

          • whuddyasack

            But Kai, you do remember I once told you that I’m never fighting for new allies, don’t you? I’ve long accepted that you can’t change everyone’s minds, even before I started posting on Chinasmack. Consider my posts “educational” for those who aren’t sure how to react.

            There’s as much prejudice and thus offensiveness in this as Probotector’s “the vast majority of Chinese people are truly ignorant” statement. Here, you basically bring up the natives simply in order to
            put down white people. This is a roundabout way of expressing a prejudiced/racist sentiment.

            Actually, I wasn’t at all offended by Probotector’s comment as I do agree with him that Chinese are an ignorant lot. While he specified this as a Chinese trait, I think ignorance is a human trait. I also find them naive. Actually, I didn’t bring the natives up to bash at White people since the native Americans were the subject and I brought them up following Insomnicide’s “Han Oppression” comment. I was agreeing with him.

            Looking back, I do agree that my statement was needlessly offensive even if I brought it up with Insomnicide and not at a White person (which would actually make it worse I guess). And that’s why I removed it. Yes, I should have just said I feel close affinity with Native Americans, they are a pleasant, fascinating and polite people and left it at that.

            aren’t you also one of those people who are used to dishing it out but can’t seem to take it? Are you going to argue they dished it out first?

            No for the first because I never complain about “racism” (I laugh at this word) directed towards me. I’m referring to dishing out to others. As for the second question, you know that’s not me.

            “They did it too” is more like it.

            Also Kai, I really do think we have different ideas about winning haha. What satisfies you might not satisfy me and vice versa. I’ve always thought you were a great debater and could hold your own (well lately you don’t seem to need it since you haven’t been arguing too much). But I’ve always thought that sometimes you should play more aggressively (if you know what I mean).

            A person who chafes at being the victim of prejudice should know better.

            If there’s one thing I don’t do, it’s to personally pull the victim card. I’ve even admitted that I’ve never experienced actual prejudice in my life but I do know people who have.

            It was never really about hurting Probotector’s feelings since having such a goal is silly, ridiculous and would fail more often than not. I know this because personally I myself find it very difficult to get seriously affected over internet comments. It’s hard to get angry, much less hurt over random insults thrown your way. But people just do it and blurt out what’s on their mind sometimes without thinking. That’s just the way it is.

          • Kai

            I remember, and what I’m telling you is that you might end up losing whatever allies you have by continuing to be this way. Granted, you may never lose those who share your hypocritical prejudice but is that really the group of people you want to be associated with? Do you really want to be a counterpart to Probotector? The same type of person but just for another side?

            I don’t consider your prejudice “educational”. They’re at most demagoguery. You’re at best teaching people to hate. You’re pandering to the basest aspects of humanity. The whole characterization of doing so to “educate others on how to react” borders on trolling, on being intentionally inflammatory. There’s a difference between hating and teaching others to hate.

            To the extent you’re disingenuously dishing out prejudice to annoy people, that’s trolling. To the extent you genuinely harbor such prejudice, you’re deserving of censure. The latter may be fighting fire with fire, but the former is committing arson. We don’t like the latter. I hope this analogy makes sense to you.

      • Misiooo

        Hahaha, exactly. Give me a thousand Kempeitai and I’ll conquer China.

      • Gordon Gogodancer

        i think he just meant that as a joke

    • fibblesquibble

      Conquer Japan in a day. I see. You would succeed only in a painful refreshing of your memory.get off this anti-Japan rhetoric and fix your country. But, then again, one does wonder if that is at all possible.

  • Marcus Black

    I like how 网易日本手机网友 above associates the black community with crime. Just because black communities all around the world tend to have higher crime density doesn’t mean they should be directly associated with crime. She (There are only women and women that happen to be males in China. Except for laowais of course, some of whom are men) is oblivious to the fact that black men kill other black men far more often than another ethnicity killing a black man. Just look at Chicago. Saying there is brotherhood within black communities is to say the least a f*cking joke. This greasy f*ck needs to be re-educated through labour.

    • bujiebuke

      Marcus… he specifically stated “black society”, not black people. Black society means underground criminal organization, similar to the “black market” which generally refers to an unregulated economy. It certainly has nothing to do with the skin color. How the hell can you NOT know this for someone who regularly posts comments about China??

      • Mighty曹

        Funny thing is that ‘Black Society’ is a direct translation of the two words that actually holds a definition, which is rare with Chinese words.

        • bujiebuke

          Hmmm… I did not know that. I took two semester of Chinese in undergrad. and I still can’t write “me”, “hungry”, “food”, “want”. Words which I live by everyday no matter where I go.

          • Mighty曹

            Yes, for example: 小心 direct translated as ‘small/little/less/few’ and ‘heart’ that really means ‘careful’.

            Hey, what about “toilet”? Nooooo… don’t do it on the street. :D

          • bujiebuke

            Ahahaha, very true. But it’s so much fun to do it on the street…

          • Mighty曹

            And better than doing it on a crowded subway train.

    • Mighty曹

      Don’t be oversensitive and paranoid whenever you see the word ‘Black’.
      Change your name to Marcus White.

      • Germandude

        Or just stop being such an attention whore altogether. haha

      • Zappa Frank

        he first should defeat a barlog…

    • Germandude

      Hey @disqus_8wRjmJ1NeI:disqus. Have you immigrated to China yet to experience your tremendous freedom? Like, you know, laserpointer fun and all that. Don’t mind the Chengguan, it’s all cool.

      • Marcus Black

        As if American cops don’t shoot you given the slightest opportunity.

        • Germandude

          “Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do?
          Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
          Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do?
          Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?”

          You should watch less “COPS” on TV mate.

    • Zappa Frank

      it is not that whatever has a black before a name is related with black people you know…

  • Markus Peg

    The temporary worker excuse is like the get out of jail free
    card in monopoly, only in monopoly you cannot use it 50000 times!

    • Kai

      Heh, if it is true that the person wasn’t technically “chengguan” but instead “xieguan”, then I wouldn’t begrudge the chengguan for defending their honor here. The question then is whether the chengguan were also around but didn’t intervene in this, thereby being guilty of being complicit. If these xieguan are tasked with assisting the chengguan, then the chengguan still bear responsibility for managing them and their behavior.

  • lacompacida

    没有共产党,就没有新中国。

    • Guang Xiang

      wut

    • Germandude

      lol

    • Gordon Gogodancer

      well you can’t deny that it’s true :D The whole question is what do you want in your 新中国 :)

      • Insomnicide

        The slogan comes from an old saying during the Republican era. “没有国民党就没有新中国。”

        • Gordon Gogodancer

          I understand and i’m just commenting on the content of the slogan.

  • IsurvivedChina

    The government has a history of covering up their own mistakes, nothing new here!

  • Rick in China

    Haha, that’s crazy. So, the Cheng guan are basically assistants to real law enforcement and try to clean up the menial shit around town, now there are even lower class peasants granted authority as assistants to the assistants? What the fuck you expect to happen, of course they’re going to abuse their glimmer of power too.

    Granting any authority to the uneducated leads to abuse of all authority.

  • Zen my Ass

    Give a monkey a badge and he’ll swear he’s the center of the universe.

  • Zappa Frank

    i’m not talking about him, but about what happened in the school of Blozaneto and in the Diaz’s cammisary.. they were not killed but totured.
    My point is that even in western countries policemen sometime do not respect the law and can go really far without any consequence.

  • xiaode

    I read sth. about compensation… but what the fuck happened with the killers…?
    Why this report is not mention anything what happened to them? Is there are case against them now… and for what? Murder, manslaughter…?

    • Kai

      At present, the family is preparing to file a lawsuit against the community stewards.

      No information though about criminal prosecution though I think there will be when death is involved. Probably manslaughter and not murder.

  • Dick Leigh

    Everything in China takes at least two people. It took two chengguan to kill a “dangerous” puppy.

  • Gordon Gogodancer

    Sir, you are suspected of being beaten to death.

  • Q Ball

    Well, this is not very bad, at least he wasnt run over then ignored by 20 bystanders, or his testicles crushed by the chengguan and then dieing from it.

  • freddie

    The massive difference here is that in western countries, its always reported and there are often lengthy enquiries, whereas is china its rarely reported, anyone reporting it gets done if they don’t follow an ‘official’ story and there’s no enquiry.

  • don mario

    beating tramps dogs to death with shovels and elderly in the street… THIS IS CHINA.

  • Surfeit

    This shit is unreal; How can declassifying the job be considered an acceptable response from a government office to the moral incorrectness surrounding the issue? Man I love being in China, but keeping up with the insanity is exhausting.

    • Kai

      Declassifying the job? I think the chengguan department was merely explaining to the reporter that the guy(s) responsible aren’t actually in their department and isn’t actually a “chengguan” as it has been spread online. If true, that’s a pretty normal response. The official response of the government was to acknowledge the incident and then seem to make things right with the family (“compensation for wrongful death”).

      • Surfeit

        There are flaws in your comment. Namely, ‘the chengguan department’ and ‘if true’; Your approach is unpragmatic.

        The OP states it was Chenguan, and a department of propaganda claimed it was Xieguan. As the article states “Xieguan are essentially “assistants” to chengguan” I think it is fair to say that during the official response, the job of the offender was declassified. That may or may not be align to the truth, but the fact of the matter is unaffected.

        • Kai

          You’re right, I read that second paragraph too quickly and merged the two sentences together. The reporter attempted to contact the Chengguan department but didn’t get through and it was another gov’t department that made that statement. Sorry for the mistake.

          The incident was first reported by a netizen and it’s entirely plausible for ordinary civilians to mistake xieguan for chengguan when they often do the same things and the latter is more popularly known.

          As far as “declassify”, I don’t really understand your usage. My understanding of the word is here. Are you trying to say the offender had his job arbitrarily changed for the official response? Not sure I’d use “declassify” to mean that. I think it is entirely possible that the government “reclassified” him as a xieguan instead of a chengguan to spare the chengguan the association but all we have is distrust to support such a belief. In the end, it doesn’t really matter, because the public already cynically expected them to shirk responsibility (temp worker) and they’re interpreting this response in that way anyway.

          • Surfeit

            Declassified – ‘Reassigned to a lower classification.’ I use this over ‘reclassified’ to delineate that Xieguan are considered lower in status than Chengguan. Either would work though; The semantics don’t differ too greatly for this case.

            I think the change was indeed circumspect for the reasons you mentioned. Which brings us full circle, back to my initial comment.

          • Kai

            I see, that usage works though is less colloquial. In any case, I would’ve probably used something like “disowned” or “disavowed” to express the same notion, heh, that the chengguan threw him under the bus in a desperate attempt to disassociate and distance themselves.

            Anyway, it’s pretty clear the public more or less doesn’t think the distinction matters and still hate the chengguan.

          • Surfeit

            Aside from your postulations on what qualifies as colloquial language, it is worth noting that colloquial language doesn’t equate to correct usage.

            Furthermore, while the replacement words you suggest may fit the notion you made in your last post, they differ greatly from the meaning of my original post. (We seem to have gone from government office declassification to Chengguan disassociation.)

            I’m actually starting to feel your criticisms are a brazen strategy to hide your initial error, because you seen to be quite undiscerning with them.

          • Kai

            What? How can I hide an error I openly acknowledged?

            I’m not sure why you’re being so hostile to me when all I’ve done is express confusion over what you originally meant by “declassify”. I didn’t say colloquial understanding of the word “equates” to correct usage. I merely explained why I was initially confused WHILE acknowledging that your usage works.

            I think I’ve been pretty fair in tone here, why are you being so aggressive?

          • Surfeit

            I guess it’s a zenith of misunderstanding via keyboard to keyboard. I seriously thought you were being a bitch. The suggestion that ‘declassified’ in less colloquial than ‘disavowed’ is super fucked up to me. In hindsight that’s quite hasty on my part; I don’t know your lexicon and it’s not my place to depreciate, or correct it. I’m cool to just leave it here with no hostility. We cool mofo!?!

  • Foreign Devil

    IF it walks like a Chengguan, talks like a Chengguan and fights 5 on1 with elderly persons. . it MUST be a Chengguan.

    • Foreign Devil

      Time for some riots. . .L.A. Riot style

  • Mighty曹

    Thanks for the link. Actually some weren’t bad.
    Example: 太子 is ‘Crown Prince’. Word by word direct translation would be ‘Too/Extreme Child’. LOL!

  • Mighty曹

    This reminds me of the other article of teenagers beating an old man. Little punks like them grow up to be Chengguans.

  • fibblesquibble

    The article states that he was ‘violently beaten to death’. Is there a non-violent way to beat someone to death?

  • whuddyasack

    Yes, I can see the humor and I’m well aware how these chengguan buffoons are often made the butt of jokes amongst the Chinese netizens. I’m just further elaborating how cowardly they are and agreeing with Guang Xiang.

  • Jing

    meh, regionalism just went to the next level…?

  • Harold Janson

    Of course it’s xieguan, there’s a reason for it and it’s just the same basic problem you see in any situation where dumbfucks are given a tiny bit of authority. Once unqualified idiots see themselves as above others, they find any excuse to exert that authority and abuse it. You see the same thing happen with 保安 who magically deem themselves above the residents who effectively hired them.

  • IsurvivedChina

    It’s a bit like a local mechanic blaming the botchy repair job of your car on his TA (trade assistant)…

  • Probotector

    Just love this face btw

  • Subhajit

    The death reason surely be the circulatory hamparing which devastate the brain blood circulation and leads to the neurological malfunction with the upset of respiratory system, it is indicating the brutalness of the killing.

  • mr.wiener

    Be careful what you wish for: 4 Chengguan were beaten to death by an enraged crowd in Zhejiang

    Oh please be aware there are some rather graphic images on this link.

    http://revolution-news.com/china-violent-government-thugs-beaten-death-angry-crowds-killed-man-documenting-brutality/

  • Dr Sun

    Chengguan are the street thugs empowered by the govt running dogs to harass the people, its that simple

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