Xi’an Home Invasion Leaves 3-Year-Old with Fractured Skull

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Violence is often used to intimidate “holdouts” into selling their homes on land that is to be redeveloped. Sometimes the thugs to do this are sent by the land developers, and sometimes they are sent by the local government. This was the second most-discussed article on NetEase yesterday…

From NetEase:

Xi’an Households Attacked for Refusing Relocation and Demolition, 3-Year-Old Girl’s Bones Broken

2014 July 20 early morning, Shaanxi province Xi’an city, two private residences in Andi village of Xi’an’s Baqiao district were attacked, causing varying degrees of injury to four adults, and a fractured skull to one 3-year-old girl, who as of this writing remains in a life-threatening condition. Photos: CFP

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At around 3:30am on the early morning of the 20th, Andi villager An X was sound asleep in his home when suddenly he heard the sound of kicks against the door. He hurriedly got out of bed to find out what was going on. “When I opened the bedroom door, over ten strange men holding clubs had already entered my front door, casually smashing things in my home.”

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An X says he quickly closed the bedroom door whereupon the men began attacking the door with clubs and machetes, soon smashing the door open. Several men charged into the bedroom and began beating them. “Several were beating me, while several others were beating my wife,” An X said.

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An X’s neighbor Ms. Wang says she was woken up by the sounds of the door being kicked down and then heard someone say “turn off the lights, beat them”. Just as she was thinking of opening the door to go out and see what was happening, she was threatened by over a dozen men on the street to go back where she quickly urged her husband to call the police.

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Because An X’s 3-year-old daughter Le Le (pseudonym) was on the bed at the time, An X did everything he could to protect his child. “I saw a knife and immediately grabbed it. My hand was cut while wresting control for the knife.” Yesterday, while waving his injured right hand, he said that even though he had done everything he could to protect his daughter, a club first struck him on his left arm and then struck the child’s head. “The child had been crying in fright but went silent after being hit on the head. When I looked, the child’s head was covered with blood, and she was unconscious.”

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Upon seeing the child hurt, the people who had entered to beat them left in quick succession, leaving An X’s home in a mess. Him and his wife rushed to take their child to the hospital.

A 3-year-old girl lies in the hospital with a fractured skull after her home was invaded by a group of men sent to intimidate them into selling their house in Xi'an, China.

Li XX’s wife says it was about 1am when she was awoken by the sound of a door being kicked in and came out to see over a dozen men holding knives and sticks already inside the family room. “After being attacked, Old Li [her husband] wanted to enter the bedroom to get a stick to fight back, but was struck on the head, with blood flowing down. The men then entered the bedroom and smashed things before leaving,” she said.

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Li XX’s neighbor says: “There were several dozen people on the street at the time, blocking the doors to the homes nearby, preventing the people inside from coming out, and threatening that those who come out would be dealt with [beaten] as well.” After the incident, Li XX’s relative arrived and accompanied him to the hospital. At around 2am, Li XX’s son accompanied his mother to the hospital to see his father.

Comments from NetEase:

不稳定因素 [网易陕西省西安市手机网友]:

Those animals! Truly beasts gone wild!

清风泛舟 [网易广东省佛山市网友]:

Poor child! As one of 1.3 billion, do you know just how many among this [1.3 billion] are beasts wearing the human skin? More than you can imagine!

efd2220a5b746ff1eb7b873b [网易广东省深圳市手机网友]:

Severely punish violent [forced] demolitions and relocations!

小李0720 [网易北京市朝阳区网友]:

Poor child!!! Over a dozen people beating two adults don’t need to also beat a child, right?!! Do you people still have any shred of humanity?!!!

扬帆乘风 [网易四川省德阳市网友]:

Beasts, not even sparing a child!

网易广东省东莞市手机网友 ip:119.128.*.*

Would having a bit of humanity kill you??? Not even sparing children!

网易广西网友 ip:106.127.*.*

When it comes to incidents related to forced demolition/relocations, the police and media are always so useless/incompetent. In China, three generations of relations [to the culprits] can be uncovered when it involves terrorists, but when it comes to forced demolitions/relocations, the identities [of the culprits] are always unknown.

b19631963 [网易四川省绵阳市网友]:

That girl’s dad is covered in tattoos…pretending to be part of black society [organized crime, criminal gang] to scare people… Now he knows who’s the boss, right…?

网易陕西省榆林市手机网友 ip:124.115.*.*

Must be strictly punished, must not allow such violence, the government must give an explanation for this.

juyongqbz95 [网易山东省青岛市网友]:

All ordinary common people must rise up and kill land/real estate developers!

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  • Ruaraidh

    After thorough (no) investigation it turns out temporary workers (mercenaries) were responsible, they have all been disciplined (paid off) and dismissed (put on retainer).

    • firebert5

      “After thorough investigation, it turns out Uyghur separatists aided by Apple locating technology and western sympathizers, decided to disrupt the harmonious society and in a blatant Japanese manner.”

      I half expected some sort of report like that to come out of this.

      • Groucho

        Lol. And forced them to eat KFC.

  • Free Man

    “covered in tattoos…pretending to be part of black society ”

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the tattoo on his left shoulder looks like some sort of homemade butterfly tattoo, not something that I expect to see on a criminal or something that would scare me.

    Beside that: I hope these guys get caught and sent to prison. They will get a warm welcome there. People who hurt children are the lowest scum, especially in prison.

    • lacompacida

      One single tattoo on one shoulder is “covered in tattoo” Wonderful Chinese observation power.

      • Free Man

        To be fair, check his wrists more closely.

        I wouldn’t call this “covered in tattoos” either, but for China its a lot.

    • slob

      I dunno what the father has to do with with the child being involved when it’s clearly not a gang attack but to do with forced relocation by the government. That’s not the father’s fault even if he is actually in some gang. It’s brutes and thugs sent by fat little fucking greedy, money hungry, power mongers.

      And they’re probably not going to be caught as a lot of these black underground thugs don’t even exist in the system (born without IDs). They’re just worthless scum working to make a bit of cash. The child was accidentally struck but still, I also hope they get caught and ass raped hard.

      Yet another under the carpet land grab story that will be forgotten by tomorrow once the Taiwanese airplane crash takes the attention away and people will be forgetting about moral principles and focusing on some political bullshit between the mainland and TW.

    • Zappa Frank

      who knows in china what are the ‘values’ in prison. if he has been sent by the local government..

      • Free Man

        I know, because there are 2 chinese prison guards in the family.

        These thugs might have been sent by the government (I don’t know the details), but that is a different story than being a government official. Most likely they were “temporary workers”. Being rich could also save your ass, but rich people don’t bother with this kind of business.

        If they get caught (which is probably the bigger problem here), they will suffer, as inmates don’t care if you were the one hitting or just a accomplice. You might be able to pay for protection, but again, people having this kind of money hire others, they don’t get hired.

  • Cv

    I never knew this happens in China, wow…. This is pretty messed up so bad for this child.

    • mr.wiener

      Happens in China a lot. What is truely frightening about China is how little power the central govt has (or chooses to exercise) out in the boonies where corrupt cadres and officials quite literally get away with murder.

      • WinterSmitten

        No, what’s truly frightening is how most people do nothing.

        • Southernortherner

          the bao ans in china are like papermache statues

          • Southernortherner

            so how easy that was for me to do…

      • ex-expat

        That is the question I have always asked. Is it because they don’t care, or because they can’t do anything about it? My gf’s mom, who is pretty high up in government in Beijing says they 管不了 – unable to really control it.

        • lacompacida

          This 管不了 can’t control is due to 1) incompetence 2) don’t wanna 3) don’thave the resources 4) don’t know about them (kind of incompetence) 5) don’t have the authority (incompetence of senior levels) 6) don’t have the responsibility (incompetence of s3nior levels) ?

        • x1sfg

          That’s a cop out response. They don’t care to waste time or resources on fixing the problem because they get theirs. As long as the guys in central government are taken care of, they don’t care what those on the outside do as long as it doesn’t interfere with their individual well-being. Have those “rogue” local officials start a coup or start withholding enough money it starts affecting senior CCP’s livelihoods and see how long it’ll last. They got rid of Tiananmen, they can handle some country bumpkins.

        • Kai

          It’s a combination of both. Some don’t care. Those who do may not have the resources to effectively manage the problem because there are so many other problems to care about and try handling at the same time. To govern such a huge population, you often end up with a huge bureaucracy, and the bigger the bureaucracy, the harder IT itself becomes to govern.

          • ex-expat

            I agree, but I think that x1sfg has a point, too. You would think that issue of forced demolition would be a top priority, as I am sure that it pisses A LOT of people off, but then again, they indeed have a lot on their plate.

          • Kai

            Yeah, his point is included in my “combination of both”. :)

            There are actually government pronouncements handed down signaling to local governments that this shit is not to be tolerated but the fact that it hasn’t been deterred into obscurity necessarily reflects just how much deterrence is actually effective. Granted, I’d argue that there is less of this now than years past, so there’s some improvement, but the issue definitely remains a big one. There is a LOT of abuse of power throughout China.

          • ex-expat

            There certainty is. You wouldn’t think it, but because of my work in tennis I got exposed to a ton of government stuff, and…wow.

            You may find this hard to believe, but I was optimistic about China for a reasonably long period of time, and I even liked living there for maybe a year or so. Though after learning the language, and seeing so much shit, the glass became half empty. I am not sure how you manage to remain positive.

          • Kai

            I don’t care if people are optimistic or pessimistic (or cynical) about China. I just think a lot of people often make comments that know deep down to be unfair and indefensible, and that in general doesn’t contribute to a constructive dynamic on cS or in the real world. I get that people vent and can be emotional, but I don’t think that should be excused, justified, or not get some pushback. Chinese people often say obnoxiously unfair and indefensible things to vent or because they’re emotional as well. If we don’t let it fly for them, we shouldn’t let it fly for ourselves.

            There are a few commenters on cS who I consider unrepentent bigots or are just shy of obvious trolling. You’ve given me the impression that you’re not one of them. Many of the people I regularly disagree with and criticize for comments I think go too far revealing some measure of prejudice have at other times shown me that they’re still probably decent people who are frustrated and irked but can still be reasoned with. So I try reasoning with them, even if sometimes it doesn’t work and they remain defensive, obstinate, and self-justified in the behavior or remarks I’m critical of.

            I think everyone can be guilty of having prejudiced thoughts or beliefs. It’s not that I think prejudice shouldn’t exist, it’s that I think prejudice should be identified and fought when it rears its head. We’ll never stamp out prejudice because of how the human mind works (the shortcuts it uses to process information), but we can consciously and conscientiously try to control it. Some people think I’m oversensitive and tyrannically trying to control how they express themselves. Others think worse of me, that I’m delusional and biased. I think I’m just trying to improve the quality of discussion, because I think we’re capable of being more rational, more reasonable, and more fair and when we are, it reflects upon the strength of our character, of our educational backgrounds, and of the values our home societies.

            I grew up in the States and consequently, I have certain beliefs about “American ideals” and “American values” that aren’t uniquely American but for which I often consider “Western ideals and values”. For example, dissent and debate, tolerance and fighting prejudice. A lot of these have been fostered by the history the West has gone through. “The West” has, in my opinion, become an incredibly admirable society, not without its faults or exceptions of course, but with very admirable norms and genuine pursuit of ideals.

            It is because I have such admiration and high expectations for the West that I am often irked that so many Westerners not only fail to reflect these things but veritably indulge in the opposite of these things. They’re human, of course, I get it, but I’m necessarily caught between two “cultures/societies”. I get embarrassed by both and I defend both when I feel either is being unfairly criticized. I don’t have the dishonest luxury of generalizing along race, nationality, or culture not only because I myself cross them but also because I know intimately that people and their behaviors are fungible, ultimately predicated on universally human motivations. It’s difficult for me to chalk things up to race or nationality because the irrationality of that is so obvious to me, so it is doubly irksome when others either dishonestly or carelessly but casually do so.

            I don’t want you to be one of those people, because the more people there are like that, the more depressing and demoralizing it is for me. The world is already unfair and ugly enough as it is.

            I want to remain positive, not about China, but about people.

          • Southernortherner

            i like to know that someone else has similar views on the subject of humans today..it reminds me that I’m not alone..

            and truthfully I’m in accord that this was not the worst china bashing comments section to this day, but it just might have turned into one if someone didn’t speak up against the negative chain reaction that some can create when they point that immaculate fragranced and manicured western finger at it ..so to speak..

            Which reminds me.. how did we become america?

            what atrocities where we responsible for? How many years was that again?

            doesn’t it seem unfair to you that a country that basically rebooted (remember reboot the cartoon?) 50 years ago literally has to be measured with the same yard stick that we carry on our shoulders? a yard stick with routed out holds that we can hold five craft pints in…

            its apples and oranges …

            the american government although altruistic its mottos and hopefully most of its actions is undoubtedly plagued with the same corruptions that china is. and always will be.. its human nature..money and power corrupts.. watchdogs have the hardest jobs around..especially those watching the watchers..since they get paid less and have less chances to “tan”

            we slaughtered a nation of indigenous “indians” and have practically turned them into mascots and extras in movies with drinking problems and little to no education..and well..the smart ones got casinos..

            the african american society in america is crawling out of a hole that is essentially what happens when you enslave them for centuries…its hard to get out of the cycle of no hope..full hate..

            the central and southern american exodus into america is in my humble opinion clearly some political ploy from some party (if there is a fucking difference) to try and gain either a lot of constituents or to just fuck with everything so bad that our attentions are turned elsewhere…

            we are so caught up talking about how ridiculous the “chinese” are, and its really just nitpicking on certain customs really, to not even realize that they have turned what seems to me like 50 different countries into one…have basically brought more people out of poverty in twenty years then ever imagined ..have come so far from what they were in such a small amount of time that sometimes i literally tear up thinking of the weak that have been plowed over during the years…its amazing..and shocking.. and a feat if i ever saw one.. that feeling is what makes me cringe when i see the old “oh my gawd i can’t believe they eat nasty chicken feet? how retarded do u have to be to eat the feet of a chicken? ” or something to that effect.. its just seems..unfair, and really just unthought out..like take your time before you spew random little spurts of hatred so u look cool or dignified..cultured etc..

            speaking of which does anyone feel like there is an obvious campaign being played out where the american population will be so fed up with a spineless and bad performing leader like obama that basically anyone…im talking…jeb bush type clown with his guns drawn is going to be able to win the next election?

            think about it..if obama was as smart as he says he is..would he just play golf like he does.? i feel like he’s in on it…like they coach him and tell him how to get people to hate him..

            its jeepers creepers.. i don’t see any real candidates yet, but you know they got one ready and he’s going to be holy hell bent on cleaning up this mess so to speak, because i don’t actually think all that obamas done is that bad but its the taste in everyones mouth that just screams propaganda central… we are at the lowest approval rate since like forever…and ironically its a black president ..the first one… and he’s like muslim by name and smoked pot in college….it just all doesn’t add up…was there not a better black man to be the first black president? surely there was but he’s on the take and there will be a white male president for the next fifty fucking years after all is said and done…

            unless of course they pull a fast one and they do the first woman president next…and after three months impeach her for having a bad temper once a month for seven days and claiming the woman’s inability to run a country..

            .oh my god i went so far into conspees didn’t i… I’m sorry..im done..im going to bed thanks for being a cool mod kai..

          • Kai

            Which reminds me.. how did we become america?

            Not sure I understand your question here and what it is referring to. I brought up America because I was trying to explain my personal background and how it has influenced the way I interpret and approach commenting on cS.

            its apples and oranges …

            If you think I’m unfairly comparing China to the US, I don’t think I do that.

            its human nature..money and power corrupts.. watchdogs have the hardest jobs around..especially those watching the watchers

            Yes, agree.

            its just seems..unfair, and really just unthought out..like take your time before you spew random little spurts of hatred so u look cool or dignified..cultured etc..

            I empathize.

            .oh my god i went so far into conspees didn’t i…

            LoL, yeah, you did.

            Cheers.

          • Southernortherner

            the first question regarding america was rhetorical questioning with facetious undertones..

            when others compare chinese in the now to america in the now its like comparing apples and oranges…

            as if they never take into account that china has done all this since mao zedong…

            and they wonder why traffic is like it is.

            by the way ive driven in china for 7 years plus….chips and peanuts…

            try driving in jamaica..i know its sounds simple..but the skill involved…poorly lit cliffroads goats cows and kids…its extreme

            cheers.. if youre ever in the south drop me a line..

      • Southernortherner

        i wonder how much chinese news is read by you guys compared to western news… the smoking gun dot com for instance…it really seems mundane to me sit around being the creme de su creme for example and to just tear a new asshole for the chinese after every single negative news story that comes out of these shit portholes like this and shanghaiist…

        its as if every other country we all came from has no fucking problems of their own and just because our hygiene, road rules, expected moral values seem higher and more refined we completely choose to forget that as we sit here our countries are all in a mess (most of the commentators are from the “west’s” [look how chinese i am ! haha the west!?!?] more fucked up countries. like america, england, europe etc..)

        just read it… america still takes the cake for violence i know from experience im from the ghetto of two countries, and not even this makes me cringe compared to what happens in miami or colombia..trust me..

        ive seen a head roll down a bus aisle..a guy get shot twelve times in the chest over a lovers quarrel…and worst yet, a 9 year olds head get blown off for being street scum..

        like the purge doesnt exist now on this earth on a daily basis…

        to be fair that was all colombia, and in miami i have just been robbed beaten and shot at, nothing as violent as south america..

        We should all be applauding the fact that dozens of people were in the dark swinging clubs and not one person died…

        im not sure if its the fact that back home we see someone kill their whole family aunty uncle sister mother brother in america and he pleads insanity and we all just say “oh well he was crazy..” u know..that one man was crazy… no …we never say “wow them fuckin cubans bro..” ( well we do actually under our breaths) but u know what i mean we dont just take a whole country and lump them together …do we???

        im sorry if im writing so much i dont actually mean to write this to any one person and especially not mr. weiner, it just so happens i reply here, but seriously, hath we forgotten what goes on in the rest of the world??

        or is it that i myself dont wander those forums that i am here today saying this… i dont know…whatever …i lost my train of thought but someone has to see what im seeing..this constant china bashing as if there wasnt 1.6 billion of them for fucks sake! look at the fact that all the people with computers and stuck at home yapping are against this, this shows that its not chinese we should be generalizing its humans…all of them…sick…especially the jews….

        (hehe, that last bit was just dark humour dont get offended now im not anti anything my godparents are jubelites ;) )

        • Probotector

          “We should all be applauding the fact that dozens of people were in the dark swinging clubs and not one person died…”

          That girl could still die from her head injury.

          • Southernortherner

            true but imagine what happens in honduras when something of this nature arises…

            heads roll muthafucka..

            my point was never made since i didnt have one..i just have this feeling you know…that its a little not fair how we perceive the chinese when we completely overlook the attrocities that severely surpass these that happen on a daily elsewhere, including our own countries.

          • Southernortherner

            atrocities..

          • Southernortherner

            true

        • Don’t Believe the Hype

          I enjoy seeing both the positive AND the negative sides of any country, and since that is not going to come from the People’s Daily, I gots to go get my NetEase/QQ fix.

        • mr.wiener

          I damn near had a “Monty Python and the meaning of life” moment when I got to your last sentence. Good to see you were joking.

          I think all foreigners in other lands start to see their country of residence with a jaundice eye after a while.Sometimes they see things more clearly than the locals, but this critical vision is sometimes too focused on where they are rather than where they are from….

        • moop

          “We should all be applauding the fact that dozens of people were in the dark swinging clubs and not one person died…”

          we should applaud disgusting acts of violence?

          • Kai

            Obviously facetious hyperbole in context. He’s just saying things could’ve been much worse, and he has personally witnessed much worse elsewhere.

          • Rick in China

            What else did he mean Kai?

          • Kai

            Was my response to moop’s question inaccurate and inappropriate?

          • Rick in China

            I wouldn’t know – because I try not to put words or interpretations in other people’s posts to explain what they may have meant, when their words so clearly said something ridiculous.. the whole point of my post was to reinforce another accusation.

          • Kai

            The answer was “no”.

            Whenever we read something, we necessarily interpret it. When you express an interpretation of someone else’s post that doesn’t match what I interpreted, we have a disagreement. We can then try to persuade each other (or others) of our respective interpretations, ideally by finding substantiation in what we read.

            You are exoticizing a very normal phenomenon into some sort of unique, negative behavior or character trait of mine. That’s retarded, and dishonest. It boils down to you not liking me disagreeing with you and having the audacity to defend my disagreement.

            His words were something ridiculous, yes, and they were “facetious hyperbole” as well.

            In your eagerness to find something to reinforce your accusation of me, you found a poor example and picked a poor fight. What I did was no different from people who tried explaining what Chuck Lorre meant with the allusions and exaggerations in his vanity card. What I do is no different from others, but you only want to damn me for it. That’s prejudiced.

        • Rick in China

          Where you’ve gone wrong is presuming that criticising the evils in one country equate to saying the rest of the world is perfect. Nobody is saying that _AT ALL_. Many of us live in China, so pay attention to things happening _in China_, and criticising shit like _this_ is perfectly acceptable…because it’s a terrible phenomenon happening here.

          • Kai

            He’s not criticizing “criticizing”, he’s criticizing what he thinks as people and comments going beyond that into “constant China bashing”. He’s referring to the impression he has of the overall comment community on this “shit porthole” of a website (and Shanghaiist).

            its not chinese we should be generalizing its humans.

          • Rick in China

            “He’s referring to the impression he has of the overall comment community”

            That’s my point. This site is about China – and often about some of the shit that happens in China or involving Chinese, and as such, it makes perfect sense to have critiques of these people involved in these stories on this site. His defense of “look at USA, look at Europe, look at….” etc – is what I’m saying makes his entire nonsensical rant miss the mark.

          • Kai

            I think he fully understands that a site about China is going to have criticisms about the Chinese. He’s lamenting the prejudiced nature of what he feels to be a lot of the criticisms. I don’t think he’s trying to deflect to the US/Europe, I think he’s using trying to get these people to look at the larger picture believe that when they do, they’ll tone down the extremes in their criticisms. I think he’s very clear about in overall context.

          • Rick in China

            *sigh*. No, Kai, the post is *all about* deflection.

            “we completely choose to forget that as we sit here our countries are all in a mess (most of the commentators are from the “west’s” [look how chinese i am ! haha the west!?!?] more fucked up countries. like america, england, europe etc..)”

            Is this NOT deflection?

            Do you know what’s exhausting, Kai? That almost all of your posts are trying to explain and justify other people’s posts. Almost all of your replies are “he” and “she”, not “I”. Your interpretation and often twisting of other people’s words to suit a defensible position isn’t really worth the time to argue.

          • Kai

            No.

            this constant china bashing as if there wasnt 1.6 billion of them for fucks sake! look at the fact that all the people with computers and stuck at home yapping are against this, this shows that its not chinese we should be generalizing its humans

            That’s “trying to get people to look at the larger picture”.

            So no, you can’t straw man his entire comment as “deflection”.

            What’s wrong with trying to explain and justify other people’s posts? What’s wrong with discussing and arguing interpretations? You don’t do this? What I think and agree or disagree with others is a reflection of the “I”. You think I’m twisting other people’s words to suit a defensible position whereas I think you’re twisting other people’s words to suit a straw man argument. What now?

          • Rick in China

            “straw man his entire comment as “deflection””

            I think you’re using it wrong.

            I took a quote, which clearly represented deflection by simply saying “look at x y z country they’re TERRIBLE” when the article and topic is entirely about a terrible situation in China, which *is deflection*, and you’re trying to paint me with a straw manning brush (what’s new.).

            What is wrong with spending your time justifying and explaining other people’s posts is you constantly believe you have so much insight and understanding of what _other people_ are saying, and take up arms to manipulate otherwise often poor statements into defensible positions to which you agree. This isn’t a rare occurrence, I’d be hard pressed to find a thread where it *did not happen*. Most people here post their own thoughts on a thread, sometimes in agreement with others. You, however, say “what HE meant” and “what HE said was”… which is entirely different. Keep misusing “straw man”, it makes me look good. “What now?” — haha, what is that, did you thug out and throw up westside after typing that one?

          • Kai

            I think you’re using it wrong.

            I took a quote,

            No.

            No, Kai, the post is *all about* deflection.

            My characterization of what you said is accurate.

            which clearly represented deflection by simply saying “look at x y z country they’re TERRIBLE” when the article and topic is entirely about a terrible situation in China,

            Again:

            someone has to see what im seeing..this constant china bashing as if there wasnt 1.6 billion of them for fucks sake!

            Yes, he’s commenting under this article but he’s referring to more than just the comments to this specific article. He’s talking about the community and the patterns of commenting on this site. He’s made this clear in his responses to you as well.

            im just expressing an awful feeling i have where i think sometimes we all take the china bashing a bit too far…

            He’s commenting about the community, not about the comments only in this article.

            Deflection involves dishonesty. Do you think he’s being dishonest trying to prevent people from expressing rational, reasonable, and fair criticisms about the incident above? Or is he honestly expressing his own rational, reasonable, and fair criticism about the community and patterns of commenting that seem to suggest people don’t look at the bigger picture?

            you constantly believe you have so much insight and understanding of what _other people_ are saying, and take up arms to manipulate otherwise often poor statements into defensible positions to which you agree.

            Ironically, I have the same feeling about you. That said, whether or not my insight and understanding of what other people are saying is accurate or not is free for others to judge. We’re all sharing our insights and understanding of things outside of us.

            I also often think other people “take up arms to manipulate otherwise often poor statements into defensible positions” for themselves and for others with whom they agree with. Whether or not there is any manipulation is again up for others to judge. This is why I criticize people of being “intellectually dishonest”.

            If you think my read is wrong, argue why and offer your alternative read. So long as we are doing this, we are discussing the issues and others can be persuaded or not persuaded by our arguments. You’re however now making the discussion about ME as a person, criticizing me for offering and arguing my read of something, which is something everyone does, including you. Instead of arguing why I’m wrong, you’re elevating it “you think you’re so smart” ad hominems.

            Stop making personal attacks trying to hurt my feelings and instead just prove me wrong with arguments about the actual issues in disagreement. If you can prove me wrong, you don’t need to make personal attacks in an attempt to either cower me or undermine my credibility in front of others.

            Most people here post their own thoughts on a thread, sometimes in agreement with others. You, however, say “what HE meant” and “what HE said was”… which is entirely different.

            Not really. It just reflects a difference in what different people consider worth commenting on and where they think they have insights worth sharing. Some people think Chinese shitting on a plane is still shocking enough to express disgust. I no longer do. It is no longer worth my time and energy to share my lamentations about such behavior. I no longer share my shock that holdouts are intimidated with violence, so I prefer to discuss Harald Johnson’s excellent insight into how the thugs may not have been hired by the local government or real estate developers.

            Some people find the content of this site worth commenting on. Some people find the translated comments of Chinese netizens worth commenting on. I often find the comments of cS commenters worth commenting on. If you are going to comment on Chinese netizen comments, why can’t I comment on cS comments? There is nothing inherently wrong in what I do because it is fundamentally the same thing you do and everyone does.

            Why do you arbitrarily and artificially chafe at cS comments being commented on but not when cS commenters comment on Chinese netizen comments? Do you think the comments section is limited to commenting only on the Chinese but not each other? You’re only critical of me when my read of something disagrees with your read of something. That’s self-serving, not a reflection of anything specific about me or my commenting behavior. If you actually took issue with me commenting about people’s comments, you could argue you just don’t think people should comment on other people’s comments. But you don’t. You only criticize me for commenting on others when it negatively affects you and those you identify with. Self-serving and hypocritical.

            Keep misusing “straw man”, it makes me look good.

            You just made an assertion without substantiation. If you think I’m misusing “straw man”, prove it. Make an argument, invoke its definition and explain how I’ve misused it. Don’t just throw accusations out.

            “What now?” — haha, what is that, did you thug out and throw up westside after typing that one?

            Dude, I’ve said that many times in the past (examples 1, 2 3. It’s a variant of “so what’s your point” or “where do we go from here”.

            Stop with the petty personal insults and go back to arguing an actual point. I get that we don’t get along but between the two of us, only you are keeping a petty grudge against me. Do you ever see me randomly name-dropping you and dog-piling you when others make petty digs at you? Instead, I’ve even defended you against people doing that.

          • Southernortherner

            im just expressing an awful feeling i have where i think sometimes we all take the china bashing a bit too far…

            u know..fuck…ive been here ten years i have my fuck china days…

            i travel i see the world.. im not ure average joe so to speak..in fact im quite ..whats the word..prolific..in some circles..i can see where you are absolutely correct in your critique of my own critique, however, doth thy see what the fuck im sayin…its like who are we ..sometimes i see the chinese come back at foreigners…in the most retarded of ways…but like i feel for them you know…no? ..whatever..whats for xiao ye.. what time is it?

          • Rick in China

            Well, in fairness, regarding the whole “taking China bashing so far” – you strapped it into a thread where it had barely occurred… all that was said was “yeah, this actually happens quite a bit here” or something to that effect, so the rant in response was a little over the top. When we’re on this type of thread, that’s what is to be expected.. that’s all..

          • Southernortherner

            these shit portals of a website’s that i check every day more times than i pray…

            u know…im very well aware of my own duplicities.. and i dont really seem to care…i just every now and then have to speak my mind and if im going to be lambasted for having an impression im very welcome to it..actually…i think i can lambast my self better than any of you…

          • Southernortherner

            well…were taking yesterday here..and i dunno how yesterday is for the rest of yall..but im like on another page today and frankly i get your point but in that case surely every once in a while there needs to be someone to at least point this out right? i mean its clearly one sided, whether we live here or not..

            actually almost against my own point i was reading some of the commentary in western news specifically on the mh17 downing and its almost laughable how everything in american sites boils down to a race/politicalparty/obamavswhitemen thrashfest… it almost makes our china bashing seem funny..

          • Dr Sun

            When did you ever really live in China and in what capacity and for how long ?

          • Rick in China

            When did I ever owe you a response to any nonsensical question which you’re so infamous for? Gfy.

          • Dr Sun

            You owe me nothing, but a handle of Rick in China, who has it seems never really lived in china, but was a tourist for 2 or so weeks/ a semester , you may want to reconsider your “expert status”

          • Probotector

            Uh, the man has a Chinese wife and family, and runs several business in Shanghai with his wife. For God’s sake, everything you say is based on self righteous presumptions that everyone who doesn’t agree with your disgusting cowardly liberalism is a bigot or an ignoramus. Get a life. In China, you’re still a nobody, just like the rest of us.

          • Rick in China

            While I love Shanghai and used to do weekend parties with friends (pre-wife) there, I’m in Chengdu, and my wife’s businesses (in Chengdu and area) are very separate from my own ;) but I appreciate the effort nonetheless.

            Most in Chengdu can find “Rick” in Chengdu, anyone who knows someone here with some business relations beyond that of some intern or management trainee on short-term assignment surely has heard of the legends.

          • Rick in China

            Like your handle, “Dr Sun”, and fake profile image?

            I suppose you feel it important to call yourself “Dr” to add credence to whatever shit you spout, and I suppose you can come up with some bullshit reason why your profile photo is not you, but rather someone far more dignified than you to make your ridiculous add-nothing responses more valuable, but neither is objectively credible.

            I never said I claimed “expert status”, but I appreciate your attribution to the fact. I also appreciate your lack of appreciation for my having “lived in China” – for which I still am, in actuality, appropriately accused of. It shows your lack of interpretation and understanding of obvious fact. Again, “Sun”, gfy.

        • Zappa Frank

          you are right, but I think the point here was more about the fact that those thugs may have been sent by local government. It is true that in many western countries there are more episodes of violence (even more immigrants to tell the truth, in china an ‘international’ city like shanghai has a fraction of foreigners than any middle city in europe)..but on the other side is unlikely that in a western countries this may happen due to corrupt local government.

          • Southernortherner

            here we both go again using the term western as if it means anything…

            south american governments and african governments and middle eastern governments and apparently the american government are all absolutley and positively evil and perpetuate negativity and evil through criminal plots and political hubris…its like a fucking christmas tree on fire in a field obvious that “government” anywhere will be frightfully responsible for many slights against those that they are said to be governing…

          • Zappa Frank

            well it is a strange vision.. I don’t think there is something like an absolutely evil government or person..

  • lacompacida

    I am glad this unimitable Chinese culture is for PRC only.

  • Harold Janson

    Reminder here… “holdouts” are the handful who do not agree for whatever reason. Usually it flat out comes down to the compensation amounts. They don’t like the price agreed to by everyone else and want more. These holdouts however, impact the compensation of the non-holdouts, who are now sitting on the sidelines with their homes already torn down and if the holdouts go nail house, everyone else looses. It’s not always land developers, it’s frequently neighbors who have too much on the line with their compensation payouts.

    • lacompacida

      I am sure you know more about these forced demolitions than the local Chinese commenters above.

      • Harold Janson

        anyone with half a brain knows more

    • Kai

      Great comment!

      • Probotector

        You know, I think it was too. I find that random unprovoked violence doesn’t happen in China, at least, I’ve never seen it. These people were probably threatened and warned at least once before this attack went down. Now, I’m not condoning it, nor am I blaming the victims, but they probably did or didn’t do something to get this special attention.

        • Kai

          I think it’s great because it’s not an unknown possibility but one that wasn’t evident and often not immediately thought of in these sort of stories. We probably won’t know who the real culprits are, but it’s a great insight that sometimes the people using violence aren’t the “big guys” (government, business).

          • Harold Janson

            It’s still kinda taboo to suggest that it might be your neighbor though. Blaming the government or devleopers is just such a wonderful vague target and everyone just wants to believe it because it’s “easy”. Everyone loves mentally easy vague targets.

            If you want a fun experience, go off to your local government subdistrict office, especially if you live in a large city. Schedule a chat with the leader and just ask, completely off the record about the headaches they deal with. I can almost 100% guarantee that yes, there will be tales of corruption they will not ever relate to you, but they deal with some of the stupidest shit you can possibly imagine every single day.

            Near us there was a protest because of a project that was actually cancelled by the department that originally ordered it. But that notice was not sent to the department that pays for it, so the company decided to do it anyways because they never got the notice either. So they roll in without allowing residents to vote on it because the residential government liason never recieved notice (because it was cancelled), bribing the developer who still had some land rights with the promise of future payment. Local government had no clue what was going on except that everyone started protesting and he had to come out and try and reason with everyone and stop them from setting shit on fire. Meanwhile, the company was going through the accounting department to yell at the government about how it was all being delayed in order to skirt the issue that there was never a vote on it with the developer standing up for the company claiming that there was indeed a vote and it’s ok. It took about a solid month to unravel the mess and in the end it resulted in the company being blacklisted and the city government repairing the damage.

            Now, just imagine the same situation, but instead of going through empty land, it was going through a residential area that held a vote, with surrounding residences protesting over it because they didn’t like it and thought they had a say because reasons, a few holdouts and some big money on the line for residents who just wanted to cash out their property which was otherwise basically worthless to them. With the entire project doomed to unravel once the mistake had been found and leave everyone pissed off.

            In those above situations, who’s the bad guy here? Some guy who forgot to read a memo or forward it to someone in accounting. Communication issues sparked the problem, which then became engulfed in a fire fueled by greed and stupidity. This is also a reason why shit that needs to get done that harms noone gets done really fast in the middle of the night with zero notice. Because if it didn’t some idiot would dream up a bullshit idea in their head, yell about it really loud, while the primary actor gets to toss it at the government to mediate an issue they know little to nothing about. And information the government puts out goes through the PR filter, so it smells like bullshit even if it is 100% fact, which ensures more doubt in the heads of the idiots who are now deadset in their thinking (and nothing will change it now). And that, in a nutshell is why sometimes China can’t have nice things.

          • Kai

            Great insights! Stop me before I sound too flattering.

    • Connor

      Well the non-holdouts should get paid first before they agree right?

      Just like in the United States.

      Instead of letting their house get demolished first.

      • Harold Janson

        It works something like this. There’s a vote. If 60% or more agree to demolition, then it goes forward. If some idiots think that voting is pointless, well, then they lose their chance to object. The 40% who don’t like it, well, tough titties. Compensation levels are not going to automagically go up just because after the fact some residents get it in their heads that the land value will go up post-development. In the US, for, say, condos, it can be anything from 50%+1 to 100% or whatever to agree on a demolition. Same dealy there, if it’s anything less than 100% there will be those who don’t like it, and guess, what? The police are more than happy to evict them… if there’s a struggle, more than happy to arrest them on every charge they can dream up.

        So, some of that compensation comes up front, but the bulk of it is only going to come once everything is completed as agreed to. The problem with holdouts is this. Say it comes down to the last 2%, if you give them more, the 98% who didn’t hold out are going to riot. It would also set an example for all future development of “be unreasonable”. If those 2% are putting the final compensation amounts at risk, it’s in basically everyone’s interest to force them out. Did you notice how once the attackers realized they actually hurt the kid they ran away? If it was developers with hired goons, they would not care, so my money is on neighbors more interested in scaring them out than actually causing serious harm. Yes, there is corruption and yes land deals can be dirty business, but the primary issues tend to be stupidity and greed all around. The time to fight against it and make your issues known is BEFORE the voting and it’s up to you to help sway neighbors to your side. Once the vote has been completed, that’s it. Done deal.

        On the developer-side. Once that vote is successful, that’s when bank loans start going through. They have paid for rights to the land to the government, they have started paying compensation. Delays because of holdouts delay the entire project and can cost them big. That’s why you see some hilarious nailhouse situations. Specifically where it is low-density housing. They say fuck it and find a way around it so they can hurry up, finish and start selling to pay off the loans. This is also why infrastructure projects get delayed, as public roads don’t generate income, so compensation levels are going to be lower, and people don’t like that… holdouts might eventually get a nice solid chunk of extra money or better housing compensation, but it’s usually very much under the table to prevent outrage.

    • Teacher in China

      That’s interesting, as are all your other comments about this. We have something strange in our complex – the whole thing has gone up around about a half dozen holdouts. So we have two massive 17 story buildings, and then about at least a dozen other 6 floor buildings, with a parking lot, little stores, a kindergarden, etc…….with the half dozen little shanty town shit boxes stuck right in the middle of everything. I kind of laugh when I see them because I heard that they were holding out for a ridiculous amount of money like 10 million rmb. The company evidently just said “screw it” and built around them. Now they have no money and probably get embarrassed every day by all the nice places around them… Oh well, at least they didn’t get beaten.

  • Guest

    When a countries leadership is nothing more than a powerful mob – “elected” by violence and remaining in power through the threat of violence – do not be surprised when other smaller violent mobs roam the streets unafraid of the non-existant rule of law. Rule of law being impossible in dictatorships, which by their very nature are inherently corrupt.

    • Xio Gen

      Did you even read the article? This wasn’t some mob roaming the streets. These were land developer thugs who were sent to scare the family out of their home. And considering their methods work, they will be continued to be used.

      • SonofSpermcube

        That is entirely consistent with what Guest said. Or did the land developer thugs travel everywhere by helicopter?

        “You’re wrong! And here’s how I agree with everything you said!”

        • Xio Gen

          He was talking as if this was some lawless rural area and these were bandits. No, these guys work for private companies to develop land.

    • Dr Sun

      You have it almost right. The sadness for China is the CPC, a bunch of mobsters with their lackeys the police and army of temp workers, sucking the country dry

      • Misiooo

        Yes, “Let the bullets fly”…

  • Mighty曹

    The two attacks were at 1:00am and 3:30am. Does it mean the first attack lasted over 2 hours?

    • Germandude

      No, 5 minutes. They figured they were late for night dinner.

      • Mighty曹

        It takes them 5 minutes just to smoke a cigarette before they will do anything. Btw, congrats on the Cup and one of the best ever shots in the history of football.

  • Don’t Believe the Hype

    Didn’t they see the 拆 sign?

  • Groucho

    Too bad common people in the PRC do not have 2nd Amendment rights. An X could have put a stop to this assault in a moments time.

    • Myk

      yeah, right. Because if everybody could have guns, then only “good” people will have them. Thugs, terrorists and criminals will still only attack you with clubs and knifes.

      • Louis MacKenzie

        When thugs and criminals come with clubs, knives, how do you expect one man or women to effectively defend themselves? The thugs will be encourage by the number and will overpower the good people.
        Now you put one man, one woman, or even an old lady with firearm, for example a Glock with 15 rounds clip. With practice and available inexpensive tactical training, such weaker side can cause effective lethal damage to a good number of thugs.

        Which thug do you know that will risk their lives so their fellows can overcome the fire power of one good person with Glock and commit crime?
        Don’t be spouting your liberal/communist anti-gun agenda. Firearms makes a very good equalizer, that’s why many women and elderly in the United States buy and carry firearms to protect themselves. And that’s why there are more than 5 million active NRA members in the US to support the 2nd Amendments, the right to self-defense by firearms. Because not everyone is a Kung-Fu hero. That Chinese victim family already proved that.

    • Xio Gen

      You’re an idiot. These weren’t vandals. These were paid by the real estate developers. If they had guns and chased the first guys off, then they would just come back with machine guns. Did you even read the article?

  • satuon

    This reminds me of Westerns where a farmer refuses to sell to the railroad company.

    • mr.wiener

      Wild West certainly…hmmm, it’s starting to give me ideas about people getting a posse together and having a good old fahion lynchin’.

  • Sydney Ma

    5000 years of devolution. Children and women beating is a timeless tradition in the PRC.

  • Louis MacKenzie

    What’s the difference? Both are criminals.
    Only I know real idiots like you always say, “Oh, they will use your own gun against you.”
    Really? You must be special kind of stupid. Responsible gun users are trained to use them safely and effectively.
    Only brainwashed Chinese like you claim something really dumb like “Oh, any weapon I use will be taken from me and make things worse.”
    Yeah, people like you deserve to be killed by criminals since you have no desire to accept the responsibility to defend yourself and your own family. You’d rather live and die at the mercy of the criminals.
    Would you like to ask that father what he would have given up for a gun to defend his family at the time? Or if he would prefer begging the criminals instead?

    • Xio Gen

      What a good Christian you are, wishing death on others.

  • I suspect there is nothing to investigate, they’ve had their beating and can go ahead and move out now. Justice has been served…

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