Baijiu Drinking Challenge Goes Viral Online In China

baijiu-drinking-challenge-china-viral
Last week a video surfaced online where a man drank 1 jin (500ml) of Baijiu and soon people started posting videos of themselves drinking 2 jin, 3 jin, 4 jin…until a man in Henan Nanyang drank 6 jin of Baijiu, equivalent to 3 liters of hard alcohol. This challenge went viral on WeChat and many people responded to the drinking challenge by posting videos of themselves chugging Baijiu. However, given that consuming such large amounts of alcohol can be fatal, some of the videos are likely to be parodies.

Video where a man from Nanyang drinking 6 jin (3 liters) of Baijiu spirit:

A woman responded by drinking 5 jin of Baijiu:

A guy in Qingdao responded by drinking 7 jin (3.5 liters) of Baijiu:

Another challenger who drank 7 jin of Baijiu:

A man from Ankang in Shaanxi drank 7 jin of Baijiu:

Video of an Inner-Mongolian woman drinking 2.5 jin of Baijiu:

A failed attempt at the Baijiu drinking challenge:

Don’t drink too much: Unlike the ice bucket challenge where people did stupid things for a good cause, the Baijiu challenge is just plain stupid. Instead, consider becoming a Patreon of chinaSMACK and help us further grow as a site. Happy New Years!
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  • mr.wiener

    Oh Christ on a bike …that is just insane.
    Do something less crazy fer gods sake … like opening beer bottles with your eye sockets.

  • Joey

    Wouldn’t even drink one milliliter!

  • Some guy

    I have a feeling Darwin would have something to say about this.

    • TGSNT <— Watch on Youtube

      No he wouldn’t. Social Darwinism is unrelated and in some cases against, the writings of Charles Darwin.

      • Some guy

        Fair enough. Then I suppose some other guy who doesn’t know much about Darwinism but is basically referring to natural selection would have something to say about it.

  • lonetrey / Dan

    What’s to stop them from switching the alcohol out for something like water or soup?

    • Markoff

      first they should switch baijiu for alcohol, since calling it alcohol is oxymoron

      • Animal

        Do you actually think before you write your comments?

      • Sophia Dalke

        Most is 40-60% abv… do you have any clue?

    • ClausRasmussen

      They did. There is no way you can consume liters of alcohol in one setting

      • lonetrey / Dan

        I certainly hope so! I don’t think I could’ve done that even back in college!

  • Terrik

    I already feel like I have to vomit.

  • Teacher in China

    3 liters of baijiu? Pffff. People up here in Dongbei do that before breakfast.

    • dgosh343

      Where are you in Dongbei?

      • Teacher in China

        Small town close to Changchun – Songyuan

        • dgosh343

          I lived in Jilin City for a while. I miss it.

          • Teacher in China

            Haven’t been there yet, but I’ve heard it’s a nice place.

  • Willie Nailer

    So, binge drinking, liver disease and alcoholism is a GOOD thing in China?

    • Dax

      Well you need something to go with your lung cancer. Variety’s the spice of life.

  • 白色纯棉小裤裤

    Any eating/drinking contest is not good for health and can be fatal, drinking alcohol is just one of the worst forms.

  • Germandude

    Drinking challenges… I remember those when the time when those were in and I was 16. Wouldn’t have touched baijiu then, neither now. I know liquids smelling like baijiu that you can buy to poison mice…

    • Animal

      Is it some kind of divine imperative of yours to write a negative comment on some aspect of Chinese culture on every single article?

      In 1945, your women had sex with American soldiers for bars of chocolate and cigarettes, in the East every single german woman between 12 and 50 was raped numerous times by the soviets producing millions of half slav mongrels, your cities were rubble and ash, your people lived like animals that even the poorest Chinese today would find shocking.

      So maybe you should get some perspective?

      • Germandude

        Hm. Can’t remember commenting on every single article but it’s okay if you want to believe that.

        Also, it’s worrying that you say “your women” since I am not considering “them” to be “my” women but if you think that you need to owe all the women of your culture, it seems you have the urgent need to get laid.

        And last but not least, don’t bore me with your “in the East every single woman… got raped numerous times” because that’s Neo-Nazi propaganda.

        In other words: Spare me your boring bullshit and only respond to me when I am requesting the opinion of an insecure dumb fuck. Thanks.

        • Animal

          The term ‘your women’ was simply referring to the women of your country, not anything to do with your clearly loaded understanding of it. Sounds like you have some serious complex about your identity or an inability to comprehend basic english, maybe remedial english would help? You say ‘insecure’ but your entire post reeks of it.

          As for the rapes, here’s wikipedia: The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers ranged up to 2 million.[1][8][9][10][11] In many cases women were the victims of repeated rapes, some as many as 60 to 70 times.Antony Beevor describes it as the “greatest phenomenon of mass rape in history”, and has concluded that at least 1.4 million women were raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia alone.[15]

          Oh here’s an interesting tidbit of information, the wife of ex German chancellor Helmut Kohl was raped by the Red Army at age 12 and thrown from the window of a building like a sack of potatoes, fracturing her vertebra.

          • Zappa Frank

            even if true what’s the relation with the article? rapes and war crimes happened everywhere… should he feel anger against Russian people? what’s your point?if you have any

          • biggj

            Well you see Germandude don’t like Baijiu so we have to bring up atrocities that other counties did to his country, mainly rape and murder, which he had nothing to do with. Only seems like the logical thing to do. I know when a chinese dont like maple syrup, The first thing I bring up is the millions of people mao killed.

          • Zappa Frank

            my bad that I didn’t understand…. next time I find a Chinese that doesn’t like cheese i’ll also come out with Mao or Nanjing massacre

          • biggj

            Don’t like cheese?!?!? Those are fucking fighting words. Men have been killed for less. haha

          • MonkeyMouth

            see above. sub maple syrup for cheese…
            also sub in ‘cool ranch Doritos’

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Indeed those things had been brought up numerous times on CS when Chinese did not like something.So your threat wouldn’t work because we are used to it already.

          • biggj

            We know we know, Chinese are the victims here. All people do on here is make fun of china and chinese people. It’s just an orgy of racial innuendos. I’m glad you guys are getting use to it. Breaking down the chinese moral is hard work, but someone has to do it.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            So why would you be surprised by Animal’s comment, since you behaved just like him/her.

          • biggj

            I was not surprised at all, I actually found it quite funny.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            So you must find yourself funny as well.

          • biggj

            I don’t think I’m funny, I just like funny things.I think that bringing up rape and murder of a country because someone don’t like Baijiu is hilarious. I really made me laugh, but in a good way. And if the tables were turned it would be just as funny. Like if someoen posted something like this “I know when a chinese dont like maple syrup, The first thing I bring up is the millions of people mao killed.” Something like that would be just as funny to me. Nothing to do with China vs. whoever…..it was just funny. That why I like this site, people say a crazy shit that is funny to me.

          • MonkeyMouth

            anyone who doesnt like maple syrup should re-evaluate their very existence…

          • Animal

            “The first thing I bring up is the millions of people mao killed.”

            I think I’m going to have to educate you on that. Mao didn’t “kill” millions of people. Mismanagement and failed economic policies that he promoted, led to starvation and the deaths of millions, but let’s not put that on the same level as the likes of Hitler or Stalin who murdered for political purposes or genocide.

            Now if you want to call agricultural mismanagement of that type a government orchestrated mass murder, then the greatest per capita murderers on earth are the British, because they let 20-30% of the entire Irish population die during the great Irish potato famine. Even today Ireland is nowhere near its historical peak population.

          • Dr Sun

            I’m going to have to correct you on this,but Mao’s policies and power cravings were personally responsible for the deaths of over 40 million people.
            In contrast the Irish potato famine resulted in total of 1 million deaths and was not caused by the British, but by the potato blight ( Alternaria solani), which ravaged most of Europe in the early to mid 1800’s, and sadly by the fact that the Irish nobles were absentee landlords,preferring to feed their faces (or should we say spread their seed) within the French. Italian and Imperial Spanish courts. .
            Finally historically the biggest killers of all time have resided within the Vatican city.Responsible for the estimated deaths of at least 790 million people just in the last 500 years and still climbing rapidly as historians dig deeper into their dirty colonial/ missionary dealings in Africa, Latin America and SE Asia.

          • biggj

            Come on, let him make is point. White people bad, chinese super number 1.

          • Zappa Frank

            With Vatican you mean about pushing people to don’t use condom in Africa?
            As far as I was told the most aggressive missionaries nawdays are not the Catholics but some American churches.

          • Dr Sun

            I hadn’t include the millions who have died from infanticide or starvation due to their anti birth control stance. Thanks for bringing it up,I guess we could add them too.

          • jaded

            Yes the Brits: the international ‘terrorists; of their time.

          • kari

            Actually it is accurate to say that Mao killed millions of people for political purposes, around 3-4 million in fact. These were all the people who were killed during his many political campaigns, from the “Five Antis” to the “anti-Rightist” to the Socialist Education Movement to the Cultural Revolution. These were all campaigns meant to purge opposition and destroy political enemies.

      • David

        Wow, troll much? If you think drinking large quantities of baijiu qualifies as ‘Chinese culture’ I have some land to sell you. As for the rest of your comments, not only were they just dumb, they were mean spirited.

        • Animal

          I’m the one that’s mean-spirited? Every single comment by germandude about China is mean-spirited and lacking a serious amount of perspective and understanding. China was poorer than most African nations less than a few decades ago. I was simply turning the tables on him.

          • biggj

            That’s understandable. You have to pick the right time though. He just commented about his dislike for baijiu…and you mention rape and murder of his people. You need to wait to until he said something like that about china. Just seems like odd timing to bring that out. Tell you the truth I actually liked your comment, I thought it was funny.

          • mr.wiener

            Your coments were off topic and had veared from argument into harrassment.
            Don’t do that again.

      • biggj

        You know, you’re right. We need to set up a foundation to bring to light the sensitivity Asians feel when harmful things are posted about chinese culture on china smack. I’m willing to fight for the cause.

        • Animal

          biggj, I’ve seen you post angry or negative articles on China for a very long time now. You probably think you are entertaining or clever but most observers see you for what you are, a disillusioned english teacher with no prospects, who probably married some chinese peasant because that’s as far you are going to get relationship-wise. One would think that a person like you should be grateful that the Chinese provide you the means to eke out an existence as that which is lowest among professions in the West, the ESL teacher. Instead all you do is spout anger and vituperation against your host nation. Maybe it’s time to pack up your bags?

          PS: it looks kind of desperate when you upvote your own comments. Have some dignity (I know hard, when you are reduced to ESL for the rest of your life).

          • biggj

            I kind of wish I was an ESL teacher sometime. I seen the lifestyle they live and its pretty laid back. While they are dancing and singing English songs to Chinese people, I’m stuck in a fucking frozen god forsaken wasteland which can only be found by GPS in northern canada raping the earth of it’s natural resources. And I stuck there 3 weeks straight of every winter month.And the other 1 week im in a shitty frozen city called Edmonton for my time off. I do go to china every year though. I will be going there for the holidays. And don’t worry, I have nothing aginst baijiu. I do have a chinese wife though…..you got me there. Although she not really a”peasant”. But anyhow, Happy new year and just try to relax man. Life is too short to be pissed off all the time.

          • Animal

            An oil driller or miner?Commodity prices aren’t doing so well these days with demand from China collapsing. Maybe a career in ESL beckons. The money is good, when you consider that prices in China are dirt cheap.

            Your wife, is she a mainlander? Or a Canadian native? Canada definitely doesn’t have a lack of Chinese.

            Wait I already know the answer, she has to be a mainlander.
            I’m perceptive like that.

          • mr.wiener

            Say hi to Jesse Morrison for me if you see him.

          • biggj

            Oh I see now, You just troll people and hope to get a response. So how does this work? Do I just say you win and it’s over? Or after you respond back to me 5 or 6 times without me responding back you just give up? Well good luck “troll brother”.

            P.S. I did think your comment to Germandude was funny, and kind of piss they deleted it.

          • Animal

            biggj, imagine if that image you posted said: “The ooga booga mufugga nigga foundation for sensitivity to negroes or whatever”

            Why is it ok that asians can be the butt of any racial joke, but the same would be considered highly offensive to blacks and cause a media storm?

            My job here is not to troll, simply to give perspective to people who have grown up and lived their life with absolutely none.

          • biggj

            ..

          • Sophia Dalke

            It is ignorant of history to think that a black guy in white makeup is apples to apples equivalent to a white guy in black makeup. There was no time in the past where black men in white makeup could mock white people and those same white people could not dare retort or a vigilante gang in hoods would scoop them up and hang them by the neck until dead, if they were lucky. The same is not true in the reverse. Blackface minstrel shows had to be suffered by the black community or they would be murdered. Not the same at all.

          • biggj

            Ok than what if this was done in canada? Would it be equally racist? To me its racist..but it’s not hateful, it’s made to be funny. If it’s not put in a hateful way, it’s not so bad. Look at Russel Peters, all the guy does it make fun of different people, loved by all and one of the top comedians in the world….If Russel peters were white……He’d be the biggest racist in the world.

          • Zappa Frank

            Are you crazy…the world is US. The rest is not relevant.
            P.s.
            And do not remember them that actually blacks were enslaved by other blacks and than sold to whites instead of eslaved by whites..

          • mistertibbs4u

            That argument again?

            You do realize that African, Native American and European slavery was COMPLETELY different from White American slavery, right?

            Africans assumed that the captors of their countrymen would embrace these slaves into their families, the same way they did.

            Pre-colonial Africa (that means Africa before white people for all you laymen) and it’s relationship to slavery was acquiring the religion, characteristics of your host family. It had nothing to do with bondage and the dehumanizing of another person.

            Sorry, but White American history has a PERMANENT trademark on that aspect.

            So yes, Africans did trade Africans in slavery. It was the perfect solution to prisoners of war. They were raised as family.

            Learn your history and stop spouting that ridiculousness. There are too many impressionable Chinese who will actually BELIEVE whatever YOU say on this board…

            … and you’re welcome.

          • Zappa Frank

            Please… Look at Mauritania now and other places in Africa where slavery is more or less legal.. To believe that Africans thought to a slave like a family.. How many of your family members you sell usually? I think these are the kind of stories you like to tell yourselves.. Does this help you to think better of other Africans? If it helps please go on telling yourself.

          • mistertibbs4u

            You really are dense. I’ve already had conversations with you and I’m well aware of your inability to understand reason. But I thought I’d give you a chance, and there you go letting me down again…

            “Pre-colonial Africa (that means Africa before white people for all you laymen) and it’s relationship to slavery was acquiring the religion, characteristics of your host family. It had nothing to do with bondage and the dehumanizing of another person.”

            Also, if you’re going to equate pre-colonial pure African cultural ideals with a Euro-slanted, Arab / Islamic-centered northern African state such as Mauritania, you need more help than I initially thought.

            Would you like to respond again?

          • Zappa Frank

            You are the one proudly telling black dudes spread aids in Europe and now try to recycle yourself as a reasonable one right? Yes for sure I need “chances” from people like you.
            Yes of course you know of Africa just by being Afro American.. Salves treated like family…haha, are you serious? I can laugh louder.
            If it helps you to believe in the myth of the good savage I have no problems with that.. Just don’t pretend we all believe it

            Your position of Africans sold other Africans as slaves for a misunderstanding of the slavery is hilarious.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Spread AIDS in Europe?

            Do you know who you’re talking to? You’re a nut, dude…

            Yes, you do need chances from people like me, because it’s pretty obvious you’re not as intelligent or witty as you think you are. You are so enveloped in nonsense, that’s the reason why you stopped responding in our previous post, because you have no petrol for the conversation. That would require knowledge on your part.

            I equate your elementary-grade understanding of slavery to the generalizations of all things foreign by many of my Chinese friends.

            No one knows about Africa by being Afro-American… I’m African-American, not Afro-American… not only are you out of touch, but apparently lame, too…

            I like the fact that you seem to be coming out of your shell and showing your racism a little more. Because this time I won’t give you an honorable out like I did last time. You’re a poser, and it’s obvious to a seasoned sensible person.

            You’re a willing slave of your local public school system and a Wikipedia jockey. You’ve been weighed… measured… and found wanting.

            Respond to responses like a man and stop appealing to the lower levels of your brain activity.

            Be a man…. for once.

          • Zappa Frank

            Please stop being so pathetic…you are the one that still cannot come up with an answer. Whining about racism even..your victimization complex is complete now.. People like you hope to find something racist, they see racism In everything..the night is black..racism!! Black Death expression is racist!! And so on.. Haha does this give you a sense of accomplishment?
            Again try to reply if you can…if they treated slaves like family why did they hunt slaves to sell them? And again..did they sell slaves because of a misunderstand? Now try with a rational and not pathetic reply.
            Even that “do you know who are you talking to” that’s alone qualify you as an idiot, I’m talking to an idiot.

          • mistertibbs4u

            I don’t have a victimization complex. I’m an alpha male. You are not.

            That is why you are in the position you are in right now. You’ve gone from trying to prove me wrong, to LEGITIMATELY asking me questions of which you DO NOT know the answer.

            So, instead of insulting your teacher, show some respect and ask me in a respectable way.

            AS I STATED BEFORE (you really have no mental capacity… I cringe to think how you operate in real life at work) the traditional African system embraced slaves (whether bought, inherited or acquired by war) as kin, and were able to work off their debts and even marry into the family or receive land or ownership of family estate or stock.

            Why are you talking if you don’t even know that much?

            Why are you so confident, yet completely null of knowledge regarding the subject?

            Why do you continue to reply as if you’re going to get the upper hand. You’re talking to ME. Not another guy. Based on our conversational history it is CRYSTAL CLEAR that you will NOT succeed in this conversation, will CONTINUE to make yourself look silly… and as each post goes by and you look more foolish, you will ultimately play “victim” and try to find a way out of this conversation.

            Wow.

            “Some mofos are always trying to ski uphill…” – Blade

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            You are an alpha retarded . Can you read what you wrote without feeling idiot? You give me douchechills.
            Anyway good job, made a mess just to avoid to reply my questions.
            Keep on living in your fantasy

          • mistertibbs4u

            Is that honestly all you have to say after all those factual sentences and lines I just wrote to you?

            A simple insult? I just answered your question with an authoritative and factual statement and the rest you can do is reply with “alpha stupid”?

            I’m disappointed in you. Really. I at least expected you to man up and have a manly conversation and back your point.

            Basically, you just abandoned your point and you think it’s gonna just “ride” like that?

            Again, people are reading what you write, dude. Have some self-respect.

            I’ve never had a douche chill before… but… good luck with that.

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            Yes you’ve replied ‘next’already three times, do it again please, the fourth will confirm how pathetic you are.
            I did not abandon any point, in fact I’m still waiting your reply, the question is the same…if slaves were as family members then why were they slaves? Why were they sold? and once the “family members” were over they were hunt to be sell? Didn’t you read it till now?
            Can you understand this simple question mr omega male?
            Please reply me again with a “do you know who are you talking to!” I love it, to see such level of idiocy is not common, and to see that someone even pretend to be cool with that is priceless

          • mistertibbs4u

            You really are an idiot. Only WHITE PEOPLE sell slaves they already have.

            Pre-colonial African society (before whites came) did not SELL the slaves they had… that would imply that all slaves they had came from purchase, which goes against EXACTLY what I told you before… they are acquired from war, indentured service, born into the servitude by parentage OR purchased (which was rare in such bartering societies). Unlike Transatlantic European slave trade, slavery was a societal institution, not a financial institution.

            They don’t SELL slaves… they ACQUIRE NEW ONES. The people who are considered SLAVES of the family either work their way OUT or continue to exist in the familial structure…

            SOOOOO FUNNY that you go from such a confident stance that I was WRONG to asking me specifically about this point, when to any normal human with functioning brain matter can see the answer…. you’re beating an already beaten path by continuing to ask this SPECIFIC question.

            Dude, you are LITERALLY DONE FOR THE NIGHT.

            You think you’re soooooo CLEVER, trying to burrow into a specific question so you can make your grand exit…

            This was NOT your original disagreement, it was NOT your original intent and it was NOT your original argument.

            This omega male is telling your sorry self to go have a seat… you are not ready for engaging debate or even layman-level conversation.

            So now that you’ve been taught and informed by myself… where do your insults fit in now? Am I still wrong? Do I still not know what I’m talking about?

            Of COURSE not because I always knew what I was talking about. YOU were the one that not only NEEDED to try harder… you DID try harder… and STILL failed.

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            So how come they were sold to whites eropeans? Apparently seems you again have no idea of what you are talking about. Any documents about what you say of slavery in Africa ? No of course, just fantasies. I suppose we have to believe the gamma male just in spite of pietism.
            You said for the fourth time ‘NEXT’, it is so easy with you to prove my point.
            Now I would like a “do you know who are you talking to”please… It’s amusing

            Edit..hahaha seen right now..now you even call yourself the omega male from the alpha male it was…you a least know the meaning of this..I doubt.

          • mistertibbs4u

            I think the problem is you ultimately HAVE NO POINT.

            That’s why I’m playing with you like a cat does a ball of yarn.

            You have not made ONE SIGNIFICANT POINT since we’ve been talking… meanwhile… I’ve made like SIX!

            Are you happy with yourself… I just want you to keep in mind… you can lie to yourself… but others are reading your conversations (including the moderators) and wondering when you became so dense….

            As I stated before… in my FIRST POST about the matter…

            “Africans assumed that the captors of their countrymen would embrace these slaves into their families, the same way they did.”

            This is now the THIRD TIME I’ve posted this particular sentence to you… the first being when I originally wrote it… the second being when you were all cocky and thought you were winning an argument (haha… remember back then… good times… good times…)

            and now again. Do you have any more questions?

            Because I remember you thinking I was wrong… now you’re asking me questions you CLEARLY don’t know the answer to.. and INSULTING at the same time…

            Wow… your school teachers must have LOVED YOU…

            NOT….

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            It is amusing that you count your points by yourself, so if I say “I made 10000 points you zero” do I win?
            Again you back with the fact that sleaves were sold ( so they did sell slaves in thee, on the opposite of what you said so far) just due to a misunderstand. You really have a low opinion on Africans don’t you? So stupid to sell their “family members” by mistake thinking they were going to live well.. Really idiots right?
            Ehmm, if you keep on saying “NEXT” but then reply me you know this makes you seem stupid right? Or maybe you use it like a sign?
            The joke of love you…not is really childish, please back with some you don’t know who are you talking with, that is always funny

          • mistertibbs4u

            Yikes. You are past gone. You are literally gripping at straws… hahaha.

            So I guess for the FOURTH time, we’re going to have to educate you.

            Don’t be discouraged… not everyone can get a point the first time… although you’re pushing it with the third and the fourth time… I mean, dude… c’mon… KEEP UP. REALLY.

            What is it you don’t understand? I already told you (taught you, actually) that most slaves came from indentured servitude, being born into a family with a slave status, war or purchase.

            I ALREADY TOLD YOU that purchase was not common because Ancient Africa slavery was a social and not a financial institution. Is it REALLY hard for you to remember this? Dude, aren’t you like… over 25 YEARS OLD??

            My little cousins can pick this stuff up faster than you can and they’re not even in their teens! You’re embarrassing yourself…

            How is selling slaves to foreigners who you expect to insert them into their family structure NOT understandable to you?

            Yes, in fact the reason I use NEXT continuously IS because the common “colonial” tactic is to focus on an aspect of someone you think is better than you and make them feel self-conscious about it (black woman’s ass… Asian filial duty towards parents, Indian cuisine) anything that can make someone feel self-conscious and make them stop doing it…

            I know it’s in your “nature” to do so.. but sorry, it’s in my nature to not give a crap.

            NEXT or NO NEXT… you’re still not making any sense… and I am…

            So really… me using NEXT to show that your argument is insignificant is negative in WHAT context?

            NONE…

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            No, “next” just makes you seems stupid, I mean, reveals your true colors.
            Seems you don’t understand anything so far, no problem, let’s repeat, it’s a must with people like you…repetita iuvant
            African slavery was the risible fantasy that you say, ok.(we believe you without any evidences documents and so on just because, like you say, we don’t know who are we talking to).. So again how come than later they did sell slaves to Europeans?
            There are two contradictions in your fantasy:
            1-slaves are sold. It’s a fact. If slaves were like in your fantasy they wouldn’t be sold.
            2-they thought that the slaves they sold were going to live a merry life oversea. Can you really read this without a laugh? They must have been super stupidS… Actually is not fair for you to be so offensive over Africans. You are apparently racist

          • mistertibbs4u

            No, next makes YOU seem stupid.. and that’s why I say it.

            You’re NOT going to win that point either.

            FINALLY… you must have done some Wikipedia research or asked your nearest black friends (if you have any, that is).

            1- Slaves are bartered. Not SOLD. I know it’s HARD for a person such as yourself to comprehend, but money was not always a focal point for non-European civilizations. Many Eastern civilizations ran on a bartering or trade system. Perhaps this was the reason that slavery wasn’t as dehumanizing in Africa because slaves weren’t seen as PRODUCT.

            2 – Slavery is not about merry life. Leave it to your black-white brain to not ponder the idea that slavery doesn’t have to be great nor horrid. You don’t have to kill someone because you have a gun. You don’t have to imprison someone for life just because their a criminal. This was the NATURE of African society before Eurocentric extremism made its glorious debut.

            Are you Chinese? Your grammar pattern is suspect:

            “they thought that the slaves they sold were going to live a merry life oversea. Can you really read this without laugh?”

            Yikes.

            Anyways… like I was saying before my eyeballs were offending by your typing skills… slavery is about indentured servitude… not merriment.

            What would make you theorize that slavery was a great thing? Who told you that slavery is either horrid or paradise?

            I can see why you have problems understanding core concepts outside of Western thought. You don’t have a gradient or objective thought process. You’re like Rush Limbaugh on steroids. It’s either THIS or THAT…

            Dude, you need to leave China QUICK… look at this!

            “Actually is not fair for you to be so offensive over Africans. You are apparently racist”

            Haha… wtf???? Overusing adverbs… offensive “over” Africans?

            Were you body snatched within the last couple of minutes? lol and then you ended with the creme de la creme… I don’t agree with you and you have been proven COMPLETELY WRONG… so you pull out a random extreme statement.

            “You are apparently racist”

            So, I’M RACIST for being BLACK speaking about the HIGHER LEVEL OF AUTONOMY and SOPHISTICATION allotted to African slavery than the brutal practices of White American slavery.

            Hmm… that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

            You’re like one those guys that has never been disciplined by their parents… and thinks “holding out” with empty rants will win you an argument.

            When are you going to be CHALLENGING…

            “This is what it would be like if Tyson fought an infant…”

          • Zappa Frank

            Hahah you spotted me, I’m not an English native speaker, to get this conclusion after so many posts should tell you a lot about your intelligence. Do you feel a bit more stupid now? You should.
            The bad new is that this is relfected in your points
            1-if they were bartered than they were a product, this is so obvious that for normal people shouldn’t be necessary to explain. Bartering is the same as selling, only among those primitive cultures that do not have money (like some Western Africa tribes) they just change money with other products or services. You may find the definition in any dictionary
            2-on this point you didn’t reply, just start babbling without any sense, is sad. Let’s try again little one. Do you think Africans believed they were going to bartered their “family members”(sic) to people that were going to treat them as family members as well? If so It means you believed Africans were all, stupid….and therefore you are racist.
            Would be better for you to get a more realistic vision and less idealization about the nature of the life in the savage Africa

            And no, NEXT, makes you only seeem pathetic since we are still on the same points. Please try something else, you know, talking with an idiot I may be misjudge for an idiot as well, I would prefer you could give a good impression of yourself, despite what you are

          • mistertibbs4u

            No… actually I feel pretty incredible.

            But you have exposed yourself.

            When you think you’re correct and in charge of the conversation, your are composed and speak proper English. However, when someone’s getting to you because you’re not making an sense, the pressure gets to you and your English becomes less than stellar.

            And the fact that you’re speech is getting worse is only proving this point.

            FINALLY back to an ACTUAL ARGUMENT:

            1 – Bartering is NOT like selling, because SELLING is both an Intra-State and a global concept. Bartering is a concept that almost exclusively local, due to people being in the same locality having similar concepts of what is considered valuable. That is why until the Empirical arrival of the Romans, we don’t see slaves actually being SOLD.

            2 – I answered this twice and now the third time. As I said BEFORE… Europeans sold slaves they already owned… many Africans entered African slavery willingly due to poverty or their nation state being destroyed by another African nation state. It wasn’t a village-level rape of people as resources. The same was practiced in the Americas. This means that the MAJORITY of the slaves who are being acquired are SLAVES FOR THE FIRST TIME. There are not large numbers of people who are ALREADY SLAVES that are being SOLD. Because at that point, they are already someone ELSE’S family members.

            This is my THIRD TIME ANSWERING THIS QUESTION. But let me guess… you’ll run out of material again and will pretend that you didn’t understand the answer.

            AND THAT’S why I love archived comments. Not only did I SAY that this is my third time, but if one was inclined to look for themselves, they could VERIFY it.

            you on the other hand? Could NOT.

            You want SO BAD to be right… but you’ve been out maneuvered by an African-American (effortlessly, by the way) and you can’t DEAL with it…

            Don’t worry…. you’re not the first and you DEFINITELY won’t be the last.

            Pathetic is when you don’t have a point, ask for a point, the other person GIVES you a point… and then your next point is to state they haven’t properly told you your point.

            My impression is impeccable. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

            Yours on the other hand is ridiculous….

          • Zappa Frank

            1-I’ll give you a dictionary
            2-again your fantasy of the wonderful Africa before Europeans, except that there are no documents we have to believe the insecure gamma male and is completely irrelevant. Are we talking about slavery in Africa or about who sold slaves to Europeans? Africans sold slaves to Europeans. That is a fact, sadly. Now again, for the ninth time…. How come they sold slaves to Europeans? Justify that….

            For the rest I’m tired, so stupid stupid idiot idiot and I think is enough… I didn’t read anything except your two points.
            Youare not even funny anymore…

          • mistertibbs4u

            Nothing’s funny when your point and personality is not as great as you thought it was.

            Welcome to the food chain…

            1 – Why?
            2 – You make the same mistake so many whites make when discussing slavery. Europeans came to Africa with the purpose of initiating the largest slave trade in the history of humankind. Their outlook was global. The chiefs that agreed to assist in capturing other tribes did not know that Europeans viewed humans as less than human, because like my dog eating analogy they had never met a man with such principles in their society. The African leaders did not SELL the Africans to the Europeans, they agreed to help them capture their enemies and rival tribes in exchange for goods.

            In order to SELL SOMETHING it has to BELONG TO YOU…

            I’m not sure what universe you live in, but in my universe that’s not SELLING SLAVES.

            They didn’t sell their own people, because they didn’t believe their OWN SLAVES were product… they were FAMILY.

            So actually… if you really think about it… the only party in this entire scenario with full knowledge of what is going on and has a disgusting and dehumanizing plan… are SOMEHOW INNOCENT in your tiny brain…

            Your entire focus is on the Chiefs who don’t even own these people…

            YOU SEE… THIS is why you’re a loser. You’re always losing.

            You don’t listen. You don’t comprehend anything whatsoever.

            I predict to everyone reading that you will ask me the same questions less than an hour from now…

            OF COURSE you’re tired… it’s hard work remembering all these big words, right? I wouldn’t call yourself an idiot… I’d just say… you’re not the sharpest pencil in the box.

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            I can believe you are so stupid, can you write this “they did not sold slaves, they agreed to help to capture enemies and exchange them for food. They did not own slaves” (that is not even true because the goods in exchange was not food by the way). So how about I excahge you for a cheesecake? Do you understand that this is exactly to capture salves and sell them? I mean, is there a limit to human stupidity? Your case prove Einstein was right, no, there’s no limit.
            And despite they saw concentration camps to garther slaves and the condition on the vessels still they though the slaves captured and sold for food (cheap price) were going to be treated as family by Europeans? Again, you have a low opinion of Africans, surprisingly they were more intelligent than you and is a bit naive to think they did not know anything.

            You had many cards to play, I mean, you could say Africans were forced to hunt slaves, it was eat or be eaten, there was no choice, humans are all at fault and so on… But no, you decided for the trivial wonderful Africa before the arrive of Europeans (with no single evidence or document, just believe the barely male). You are really something that deserve to be studied in order for a better understanding of education’s system problems. It’s amazing that in China someone can hire even you….

          • mistertibbs4u

            You know that’s funny… because I’m the one doing the hiring in China… and things are going GREAT. I have made it a point not to hire any slackers like you, though… unlike a lot of businesses here, which is why I’m not stuck in some abandoned wasteland… but enjoying the fruits of my technical labors.

            You’re still not getting it, are you? Just like i told you before, you mentioned Africans selling Africans to Europeans, and I checked you on your phrasing as if AFRICAN SLAVERY was anything REMOTE to EUROPEAN SLAVERY…

            You see, the bottom line is trying to take the blame of the atrocities that happened AFTER those Africans were shipped to the Americas… and place some of the blame square on Africans as if they were the ones with the institutionalized brutal treatment of those slaves once they arrived on those boats on those lands.

            You can’t get PAST that because THAT’S why I schooled you in the FIRST PLACE.

            Any way you slice it… you were WRONG and your perception of African slavery as a WHOLE is WRONG…

            I’ll come back for you later… I’m schooling your deskmate over here….

            You never learn, DO you…

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            You know riffht that as more you go on with this thing as more you look pathetic. Again the story that poor Africans didn’t know what was going to happen to the slaves they sold. you cannot school anyone, you are on the other side a perfect example of school fail, it took you years just to. Figure out I was not English native speaker, what kind of education did you receive? For the ret we see you passed the whole night on this, that makes your life tragic. You are just a poor balck guy with a huge victimization complex. I pity you. And also your fantasies.

            You are unable to even have a normal discussion with. People, I doubt you can have any kind of work anywhere. So no. I don’t believe you. But again
            Why Africans sold Africans slaves to Europeans, I’m still waiting this answer.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “You know riffht that as more you go on with this thing as more you look pathetic.”

            The more I read through your comments, the more it becomes clear that you started off with a generalization, morphed into a border-lined racist comments about Africans in general, asked the same question over and over again… received the answer… pretended not to read it… and then whenever you’re drowning, you then resubmit your question, as if no one is going to notice, most intentionally myself.

            I think that qualifies as pathetic.

            “Again the story that poor Africans didn’t know what was going to happen to the slaves they sold. you cannot school anyone, you are on the other side a perfect example of school fail, it took you years just to.”

            I’m sorry, I don’t remember any story about “poor” Africans… I do remember a story about the institution of slavery as Africans know it being different from the institution that was known to both Europeans and Arabs, and that concept of slavery being introduced into the African system by way of the 15th century.

            You do realize the exaggeration is not an acceptable debate tactic, right?

            Schooled again.

            “Figure out I was not English native speaker, what kind of education did you receive? For the ret we see you passed the whole night on this, that makes your life tragic. You are just a poor balck guy with a huge victimization complex. I pity you. And also your fantasies.”

            Glad you asked. From kindergarten until high school I was educated in the private school system along with my brothers and sisters. I then attended a public high school and then to the University and then to work. And I’m native English speaker. And a Californian. And an American. And a businessman. And a historian.

            I’m able to have a normal discussion with people… unfortunately, that requires speaking with a normal person. You clearly have race issues and it shows. I called it out… you thought it’d be pretty easy to ramble something about “babbling Africans” and “you people” and that didn’t work… (sounds like a repeat of the last time I schooled you).

            You haven’t forgotten about that, have you?

            Trust me, it wasn’t a fluke…

            “I doubt you can have any kind of work anywhere. So no. I don’t believe you.”

            Unfortunately for your premise, I do have work here and I do have workers… I’m not paying them with promissory notes from the Bank of your belief… I pay actual currency that feeds babies, clothes families and keeps the heat and the lights on. You? Not so much, I’m sure…

            “Why Africans sold Africans slaves to Europeans, I’m still waiting this answer.”

            Did you not get the other five times that I explained this to you?

            Incidentally, you can use my first post as your answer. All you have to do is ctrl-f for all the “slave” and “family”. I LITERALLY created my own Wikipedia entry on this thread and you STILL don’t understand…

            That’s fanTAStic…

            And my first post to you explained that African slavery was different from European slavery, so don’t try to hang the atrocities created by Europeans on the legacy of African slavery. This is a Eurocentric tactic that rarely works when a knowledgeable person is in the room. So clearly it’s not working now.

            It sounds like you still don’t understand

          • mistertibbs4u

            No, I use NEXT out of total disrespect I have for you as a person.

            You’re not as intelligent as you think you are. You not even remotely confrontational as you appear to be.

            Your points are full of holes. You dodge questions and evade crucial points… it’s just embarrassing.

            So using NEXT… is my way of letting you know… that your responses have become lackluster… pathetic and full of doubt in your own point… so…

            uhhh…..
            yeahhhh….

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            Hahaha, well in effect your judgment has a lot of meaning to me..

            I appear intelligent? thanks, I would like to have a chance to say the same of you, but you steal this pleasure with every single of your posts.

            Ps please add some do you know who are you talking to and some alpha male here and there….

          • mistertibbs4u

            And now we see the defeated male… admitting his defeat by using my stronger tactics and habits as an “annoyance” to him…

            Is that all you have left? Don’t you want to talk some more nonsense about how African slavery was the same as European transatlantic slavery?

            I didn’t think so…

            You’re not trendy. You’re not cool. The words you just used, WHEN used by a cool person would have effect… but with you… and your track record of not paying attention, not comprehending and generally being WRONG makes you sound lame when you say it.

            NEXT!

            (you see that… when I say it… it’s genuinely funny, because I’ve proved a point I can rush away from… unlike yourself…)

          • Zappa Frank

            You know, sometime I don’t know if this is all sarcasm or you are really that idiot. I mean is not common to find someone so idiot to claim loudly to be alpha male, to write you don’t know who are you talking with and to claim he uses strong tatics. Usually people that have such claims are people that in truth are extremely insicures. So tell me did your father beat you? Not hard enough it seems.
            About the questions are still there, basically is one, and you seems not able to reply, but I’m sure in your fantasy counting you replied at least to thousands points.

          • mistertibbs4u

            You do have a core understanding of sarcasm and condescension, right?

            If an Omega male can trip your argument to shreds…

            what does that make you?

            Ahhh… finally his brain is starting to think for itself…

            or is it?

            You’re lame, dude. It’s like I’m talking to someone who isn’t Western in any sense.

          • Zappa Frank

            you trip my argument just because you strongly believe so? Than please try to jump from a sky creeper in the same way.
            You finally realize the omega male thing….what is it, did you become modest?

          • mistertibbs4u

            Annnnnd here we go… focusing on semantics, because our entire argument is shot, huh?

            How sad for you… dude… just listen to me…

            You…. are never…. going to win…. this argument….

            You started out cocky…. now you’re all sensitive and only sending short responses…. it seems you don’t have the stamina to do the job…

            How unfortunate for you.

            Do you think I’m supposed to fall for your “I started to like it”.

            Do you think I’m sort of some ESL student?

            I’m American, fool! If you’re going to make any headroom with this argument, you have to start making sense first…

            Then… start providing points. I’ve answered all of your questions… proven that you were wrong in your disagreement… and my insults are better than yours…

            What do you have left?

            Nothing!

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            Hahah really you are something, self claiming the victory over an argument while you evidently have problem even in basic understanding.

            I’ m waiting an answer to my question from the first point, but you prefer go for a fight since you cannot avoid to become emotional

            Can I try too?

            Next!

          • mistertibbs4u

            Don’t try to befriend me, lost one!

            I don’t fall for those tactics… and I know I’m something… that’s why points are winning this sad excuse for an argument… I mean, really… you have been no problem talking to…

            And the idea that you are lost in your own posts and saying I have a problem in basic understanding is beyond me.

            I hope you don’t delete any of your posts… I have to show some of my friends back home your comments…

            UNREAL, dude…

            I’ve already answered your first question and your second question. Don’t try to act you didn’t see what I wrote… no one’s that dumb… except for you.

            This is why I like archived comments. Anyone I invite to read your foolishness can CLEARLY SEE that you are missing a couple of screws.

            Now you’re using “memory loss” tactics? Dude, I’m not the average guy… you’re not going to use these lame tools of distraction and think it’s going to frustrate me… sorry, I’m not that weak and I have more stamina than you… I’m waiting for you to pretend that you have no more time to speak.

            Because if you think you’re going to continue to talk nonsense and somehow I’m going away… that’s not going to happen. Only you would talk trash to someone and then criticize them for things such as counting the times they were right.

            Why not? Are you not that smart?

            NEXT! (waiting for you to grab the coattails on that one, since you have no legs to stand on)

          • Zappa Frank

            For sure you are not the average guy, you are by far more stupid than an average guy… Even now you read in my post I was trying to be your friend…how stupid can you be?
            You need to bring this stuff back home to let someone read this? You are surely an insecure guy that need approvation don’t you? Hahah what kind of alpha male would do this?
            I can repeat my questions you don’t have replied yet even here:
            How come Africans sold their salves to Europeans? Did they really though Europeans were going to treat them as family members? Were they so idiots?

            Last question…how old are you? If you are less than 25 I think we should call your parents and tell them that unlucky the money of your education have been lost

            Edit

            The fact that you think quarreling here for long is something to be proud, and that prove your stamina is one of your masterpiece. You should write a comic book, just don’t try to be funny, be yourself.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Yeah… let you tell it. Anything is possible.

            Fortunately for the rest of us, you are clearly insane and not worthy of credibility. Your credibility was shot like 30 minutes ago, dude.

            I’m not dumb… I know the “colonial” cycle… first you start with asking questions… and then it naturally turns into a sincere question in hopes that the other superior poster will cut you a break.

            Well, I did that last time. Now you’re just talking nonsense, so you have to deal with it. There’s no one here to assist you. No moderators, no clever friends… it’s just you and your ridiculousness. By yourself. And it doesn’t look good.

            Letting others read your posts has nothing to do with me… have you ever been in the streets of China and saw a guy smoking six cigarettes at the same time? A naked guy walking down the street? Something ridiculous?

            Well, now that ridiculous is you… that thing that your friends didn’t think existed… in your case… to be completely lost in your own conversation but asking questions at the same time, but insulting at the same time… but confused at the same time… you’re a mess, dude. Someone outside of this post needs to see how bad it gets… trust me…

            You must be remedial. Did you not read my previous post where I predicted that you would ask me the same question again after I JUST answered you for a third time?

            Ask yourself this question: if a person that eats dog moves next to a person who has no idea that some people eat dog… and the dog goes missing the next day, is that person with the dog an idiot…

            Or is the person who finds it okay to eat dog… just a disgusting person?

            I’m definitely over 25 and unfortunately you are too… although from your comments, I can’t readily see it.

            The fact that you’re pointing out how long I’ve been here is a telling point that you’re ready to leave. Again, as I said, “colonialists” like to point out your strengths in hopes that you become self-conscious about them.

            Sorry dude, no dice…

            You can continue to lose until you leave…

            I am myself… that’s why I’m funny…

            And the same for you… that’s why you’re…

            let’s just say special.

          • Zappa Frank

            So now you are using a plural maiestatis or simply more people live in your brain. You are alone too poor idiot, and of course now one is here, hope they have something better to do, why anyone should come here? To write what? Even this expectation of yours show again sadly the huge problems in education. That makes me think that is time to be serious, I’ve palyed with you long enough I think, it has been funny and thanks for that. Sorry I didn’t read the rest of your post because you are so monotone, I don’t think anyone will ever read it.

          • mistertibbs4u

            You really are an idiot… I already told you that Africans didn’t sell slaves… slaves that they owned were not apart of their family… are you purposefully being ignorant, or is this your new strategy for “saving face” in an argument you’ve clearly lost on several occasions (you can add this post to that count as well).

            Your entire way of viewing the subject is primary school level.

            Africans had their own slaves which where apart of their family… they didn’t sell anyone to the Europeans… they agreed to help them capture other Africans from rival nations. They didn’t own these people and they weren’t paid from any exchange.

            You already know that European concept of slavery at that time was completely different from other civilizations….

            You are reaching moronic level….

          • Zappa Frank

            They captured slaves from rivals nations and sold them to Europeans, ok now you are about to say something with sense. And so naively they thought these guys were going to become part of Europeans familes …hmmm here you still have to work
            Slowly you are admitting it…you like to play with some bullshits like was not a sale was a barter for food (if you don have money like most Africans tribes that’s makes no differences, even now they use it) or they were not slave but enemies (ridiculous as well since they were hunted under request of Europeans in big quantities and not a merely consequence of warfare)
            O yes idiot idiot ue ue ue..just to get ur level

          • mistertibbs4u

            They didn’t capture slaves from a rival nation… they helped capture PEOPLE from a rival nation…

            Your biggest problem is you lack African perspective… you’re so entrenched in Eurocentric thought about slavery that you can’t get past the idea that MAYBE other civilizations and people had higher ideas about the people that were under their care and control.

            This is where your IDIOCY resides…

            “I see you lack in understanding , I obviously meant that if as you babbling Africans made slaves and considered them to be part of their family (personal family, not racial family that I never talked about because does not exist) than they wouldn’t be slaves and wouldn’t be have been sold..”

            I already told you that their slaves became apart of their family and were not sold…

            You’re not able to comprehend because you’re not a person who comprehends new thought (or intelligent thought, for that matter)

            Get a clue!

            All this time and you still don’t get it!

            Tragic…

          • Zappa Frank

            No, the biggest problem is that you have no idea of what you are talking about…like the ancient Africa civilization..
            The slaves were captured by other Africans, ( a yes, they were people that once captured were sold for food or goods, and that makes of them slaves by any meaning) that is a fact, there are documents, not like for your fantasies. You can look It even from a Martian prospective, it doesn’t change. They hunted people to sell them for food (in truth was for goods) and that’s all…

          • mistertibbs4u

            You’re an idiot. First, you’re demanding a reason WHY they sold their slaves to the Europeans. Then you were schooled (because you had never been schooled before) about the difference in IDEOLOGY between African slavery and European slavery.

            After you were schooled on that, then you requested to know why if they thought about them as family, why they SOLD THEIR slaves to the Europeans… then you were schooled (because you had never been schooled before) that the people who were captured by other Africans were not SOLD to the Europeans… the SLAVES of Africans and the PEOPLE who were captured were TWO DIFFERENT demographics… but you still proceeded to pretend to be stupid…

            You see, no one’s stupid… by focusing on Africans selling Africans… whites hope to absolve themselves of the HORRORS of the slavery that ENSUED… sorry, dude… WILL NEVER HAPPEN… bottom line is even with the assistance of other Africans, the concept of slavery and it’s importance in society was taken to a INCREDIBLE NEW LOW within the hands of the white American institution of slavery.

          • Zappa Frank

            Like change cards while playing haha not so easy dude. I wrote on first post “Africans were ensalved and sold by other Africans not by whites” after all bullshitting..Africans civilization that apparently you don’t know at all, and a lot of fun you came out with “Africans were captured by their Africans enemies and exchanged for food to Europeans”…….WOW that makes a huge difference!

          • mistertibbs4u

            Are you paraphrasing yourself?

            For food? Are you nuts?

            First, I didn’t say that and secondly, this point doesn’t lead anything to your idea that Africans sold each other into slavery as if it was a financial system.

            You’re purposefully leaving out your insistence that the idea of selling people for profit as a system somehow as a system that was created by Africans and “presented” to the Europeans is pure garbage…

            As if Europeans were drifting across the seas and “happened by” Africa were they were awaiting someone to “sell” their people to.

            Don’t try to get cute. Your point is moot because they didn’t think in European ways… your colonialist attitude of forcing yourself to understand Africans through a European mind state is the reason you can’t understand anything we’re talking about.

            That’s why I consider you a moron.

            You see what happens when you’re left alone?

            You thought you got your confidence back and started twisting the truth.

            You’re not allowed.

          • Zappa Frank

            You know right that you are alone too? I don’t understand your need to have someone… You are already that funny alone.

            Again read my first post and don’t fuck around ok? I wrote Africans sold other Africans slaves to Europeans. You like to use a pudic semantic to say the same stuff… Those are facts. I know you want to push much about the ancient African civilization in hope someone may tell you something since you don’t know anything and since you are American and with Africa have nothing to do in the end, but sorry that’s not the topic. We are talking about Africans sold slaves, slaves were not enslaved by Europeans…you already admitted pudicly like a good gamma male that have to ask permission, but the content doesn’t change.
            Please stop with that “they did not think in European way and then sold slaves thinking they are going to be part of Europeans families….for hundreds years….after seeing what happen when garthered and on vessels……….. Yes they were so stupids” makes you seems mad..I care for you mental health
            ,

            Edit ego absolvo myself for slavery…haaaa now I’m good with it.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Hey, yellow bus…

            Just because you can’t make a point on your own, doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want, put quotes around it and “claim” I said it: Look at this!

            “they did not think in European way and then sold slaves thinking they are going to be part of Europeans families….for hundreds years….after seeing what happen when garthered and on vessels……….. Yes they were so stupids”

            I didn’t say that, and my English doesn’t suck that bad!

            And this is precisely my point! Stick with your original intent and you’ll be okay. Okay, meaning still wrong, but… at least you won’t look like a tool at the same time!

            You saw my original response to you… and because you are INCAPABLE of providing an actual quote from me (something I at least correctly attribute for you), I’ll do it myself:

            “You do realize that African, Native American and European slavery was COMPLETELY different from White American slavery, right?

            Africans assumed that the captors of their countrymen would embrace these slaves into their families, the same way they did.

            Pre-colonial Africa (that means Africa before white people for all you laymen) and it’s relationship to slavery was acquiring the religion, characteristics of your host family. It had nothing to do with bondage and the dehumanizing of another person.”

            The original and lazy intent of your message was not lost on me… you stating that Africans sold Africans is insinuating that African slavery has always been about money (pre-colonial) and MORE IMPORTANTLY that the poor old Europeans just happened to mosey on over to African and couldn’t resist such a deal…

            That’s revisionist, self-serving, racist and frankly bullcrap.

            You THEN go on about how IMPOSSIBLE and IMPLAUSIBLE it was that pre-colonial slavery COULDN’T have been on such a social system and they COULDN’T have thought in such a way… THAT was your original argument.

            Now you want to pretend that your original intent WASN’T that African slavery was always the way it was now… I’m sorry, it wasn’t YOU that compared the legacy of African slavery to modern day Arab slave trading in Mauritania?

            You’re full of crap, and you KNOW it…

            That’s why you let people like feel themselves and gain access to that little ego they lost just a second ago…

            So you can bring them down again…

            I’ll be waiting…

            Hope they take it down (translation “I kinda regret the whole thing”) it was just funny (translation: “oh crap, my racism has been exposed and it’s up there for the world to see..”)

            Sorry… alpha males don’t contend with that type of logic.

          • Zappa Frank

            Again an idiot post where you say i did say that, and than you repeat it….can you really be normal? You must be of huge embarrassment for all blacks really.
            Read my post back if you are able

            Africans sold Africans slaves to whites, that what I wrote…. You that come with the bullish urging of the wonderful slavery in Africa, and I asked, if so, if slaves were their family why did the sell slaves ? I know for you this is too much and then you went talking about nonsense useful for an inferior male like you that need approvation from biggers, good.
            1-Africans sold Africans slaves stop.
            Take a dictionary to read what braterd is
            2-Africans knew what was the use of he slaves since they sold them for hundreds years
            3-kingdoms in Africa rised and died as consequence of the slave trade and the end of the slave trade
            4-I don’t get a fuck about the ancient African culture that you don’t know at all since apparently you can indicate names, dates, facts and so on…but about the cheery picking on Wikipedia seems you decided to ignore passages like this:
            “The slaves in Africa, I suppose, are nearly in the proportion of three to one to the freemen. They claim no reward for their services except food and clothing, and are treated with kindness or severity, according to the good or bad disposition of their masters. Custom, however, has established certain rules with regard to the treatment of slaves, which it is thought dishonourable to violate. Thus the domestic slaves, or such as are born in a man’s own house, are treated with more lenity than those which are purchased with money. … But these restrictions on the power of the master extend not to the care of prisoners taken in war, nor to that of slaves purchased with money. All these unfortunate beings are considered as strangers and foreigners, who have no right to the protection of the law, and may be treated with severity, or sold to a stranger, according to the pleasure of their owners.”
            Now again this is not the point, because the point is Africans sold Africans slaves. That is the point. But even if we follow your dementia we see that you don’t have anything, anyhting …..just a voice on Wikipedia that you didn’t even read completely. You are of huge embarrassment for any Blackman living or lived.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “You must be of huge embarrassment for all blacks really. ”

            I didn’t know we all knew each other… but it’s nice to know that you’re slowly starting to generalize more… that means you’re close to running away… don’t worry dude, I’m not going anywhere… so try to find a way to spin that fact that you’re rambling isn’t affecting me in the slightest to “you have no life to speak so much on this thread”

            Don’t worry… I’ll wait.

            “You that come with the bullish urging of the wonderful slavery in Africa, and I asked, if so, if slaves were their family why did the sell slaves ? I know for you this is too much and then you went talking about nonsense useful for an inferior male like you that need approvation from biggers, good.”

            Again with the exaggerating… I’ve noticed that half of your argument is a projection of what you imagine all black people to be like… this is something I’ve noticed the last time you were verbally spanked… and pretty much like this time… it doesn’t end well for you.

            FINALLY you’re getting to your ACTUAL question… good boy!

            Which is not why did Africans sell Africans to Europeans… your ACTUAL question is if slaves were considered family… why did they sell slaves.

            And THERE we have the difference between European chattel slavery and traditional African slavery… the fact that slaves were considered apart of the community and not property.

            THIS I’ve said a million times… and I’ll repeat it a million times more…

            If Wikipedia is your only voice…

            You will be exiting stage left much faster than expected

          • Zappa Frank

            I can’t believe you still fuck around to don’t reply….
            Slaves were sold by Africans to Europeans…ok? Or not? You can call it exchange for food, it’s a semantic way to trick yourself. The result is that we’re sold. Again, come with me, WHY?
            Second time, I notice you more and more came with victimization racial stuff.. Good job. Does it work usually?

          • mistertibbs4u

            “I can’t believe you still fuck around to don’t reply…. ”

            Were you expecting anything less? You’re taking this loss, dude… you know it. I know it. You haven’t made any sense.

            “Slaves were sold by Africans to Europeans…ok? Or not? You can call it exchange for food, it’s a semantic way to trick yourself. The result is that were sold.”

            Young unpolished one… we all know your original intent and I CHECKED you on it. You didn’t like getting verbally spanked, so you tried to play your cards, but NO FLUSH. I then responded as follows:

            “You do realize that African, Native American and European slavery was COMPLETELY different from White American slavery, right?

            Africans assumed that the captors of their countrymen would embrace these slaves into their families, the same way they did.

            Pre-colonial Africa (that means Africa before white people for all you laymen) and it’s relationship to slavery was acquiring the religion, characteristics of your host family. It had nothing to do with bondage and the dehumanizing of another person.”

            Dehumanization. Chattel slavery. Eurocentric viewpoint on slavery.

            “angry black guy”

            You’re almost right… change that to “intelligent black guy” and I’d agree that’s me… change it to “frustrated white guy” and I’d agree that’s you.

            You never learn, do you…

          • Zappa Frank

            I think even your mother can’t do a miracle and call you intellingent.

            Anyway here we are again. For you Africans sold Africans slaves to whites because they thought they were going to be part of their families. We can even decide to deliberate ignore that slavery in Africa was not like you said, I posted something, dr sun posts something, you did not post anyhting. So we make you a good favor and decide ok, Africa was that funny fantasy of yours…. Now tell me, can you believe they sold for hundreds years, hundreds!!!! Slaves and never figure out they were not going to be part of any family? They even saw what was happening in the garthering places and on vessels. So you can confirm that your point basically is “Africans were stupids and didn’t have any idea about what was going on despite so many evidences”…..well what can I say. Racist

          • mistertibbs4u

            “I think even your mother can’t do a miracle and call you intellingent.”

            So now calling someone intelligent requires a miracle in your universe… nice…

            “For you Africans sold Africans slaves to whites because they thought they were going to be part of their families.”

            EXACTLY. They thought they would be apart of the social and familial structure… NOT because the Europeans PROMISED “hey, we promise to not treat these guys like crap…” of course not moron…

            They EXPECTED them to be socially inserted into the systems of others because that’s what slavery was TO THEM.

            I see what you failed to do there… equate the word “family” to “utopia”… but you can’t because that’s not what it means…

            You do realize this, right?

            You’re not just feigning ignorance… are you?

          • Zappa Frank

            Ok again than in hundreds years Africans have been so stupid… So racist of you..

          • mistertibbs4u

            Right, that makes a lot of sense…

            Still waiting on an emotional response?

            How about dispensing the knowledge…

            If you want to be like me… you’re going to mix the sarcasm in with a little more factual information…

            Now, you just sound lame

          • Zappa Frank

            Hell, sure I don’t want to be like you. Hahaha, after all you wrote you still pretend to be cool, you are the last pathetic human here, face it.

            Still waiting a reply on the other side, were Africans all so stupids?

          • mistertibbs4u

            Trust me… you couldn’t if you wanted.. that much is evident.

            There’s no pretending on this end… on yours, that’s a different story.

          • Zappa Frank

            Not calling someone…calling you

          • mistertibbs4u

            Like I asked before… “calling someone intelligent requires a miracle… get out of here with that nonsense.

            You’re silly.

          • Zappa Frank

            Wow your level of conversation is rising….few post more and i can pass this stuff to the kindergarten next door

          • mistertibbs4u

            Lame

          • Zappa Frank

            Don’t let some wait too long insecure male. Your imaginary public may think you are weak, you need their approvation, you need it, reply quickly!!! Come on… Else someone may doubt about your stamina.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Don’t let the lapse in time between my responses let you think you’ve gained any ground.

            You’re still hanging on my coattails, huh?

            Can’t think of anything original on your own, right?

            That figures… you might want to hop on over my comments and respond as opposed to pretending to be cool.

            It’s not a good look for you

          • Zappa Frank

            You’ve ne never looked good, so I’m afraid your judgment on that is less than irrelevant. I wrote because i found strange someone that till yesterday was so proud of his endured in this childish stuff allow the sudden disappeared…I was seriously worried for you

          • mistertibbs4u

            ” I wrote because i found strange someone that till yesterday was so proud of his endured in this childish stuff allow the sudden disappeared…I was seriously worried for you”

            So what you’re basically saying is you found it strange that I WASN’T on this website for more than a 12-hour period. You are certifiable….

            Smart!

            And if you felt this was so childish, then why are you still here? I’m still here because you’re serving nonsense about slavery and hiding behind the guise that Africans were somehow responsible for the chattel slavery that Europeans perpetuated…

            No, the European chattel slavery must be acknowledged and its difference between traditional slavery must be acknowledged as well.

            Learn about it!

          • Zappa Frank

            Africans were responsible. You even admitted that they sold slaves, of course you justify with the risible theory of, they didn’t know what happen after…….they did not know even after hundreds years… Hahah, really so ilarious.
            You wrote in late night yesterday just to prove your stamina. If you do something so stupid yes of course I’m worried you don’t show yourself in normal hours. Who knows what may happen, you said you had some problems sometimes with police in your wonderful childhood. So pity you didn’t born in the ancient African civilization …that actually I’m afraid exist only in your dreams since you don’t have even a name or a date and less than ever a docuemnt

          • mistertibbs4u

            Everyone was responsible. Slavery is an institution… The most disgusting of the bunch would be the Europeans which remains a fact… chattel slavery is the worst of the worst and when you finally comprehend this, you’ll be better off as a person.

            It’s “hilarious” by the way…

            “Who knows what may happen, you said you had some problems sometimes with police in your wonderful childhood. So pity you didn’t born in the ancient African civilization …that actually I’m afraid exist only in your dreams since you don’t have even a name or a date and less than ever a docuemnt”

            Hahaha…. wtf? What the hell is this supposed to mean?

            English much?

            Please get back to me on this garbled mess and I’ll be sure to reply

          • Dr Sun

            I think you must be talking into a mirror or something. Having read through your posts you have “cherry picked” a few forms of slavery that maybe were practiced in some parts of Africa, at unstated time by some unnamed “ancient African civilizations” (there is scant evidence on this, as it appears your unnamed ancient civilizations forgot to write anything down.) and you have projected this as representing all slavery in all of Africa.
            Further more you have stated that other forms of slavery, ie chattel slavery were not practiced before the colonialists arrived, this is clearly not true and you have not been able to present any evidence to support this.
            It is however clear from a cursory read on slavery in Africa many forms of slavery existed and were practiced in different societies at different times throughout the region.

            To suggest the colonists brought a “NEW LOW” in slavery and horrors previously unknown to Africa is simply not true . You seem to have ignored the whole history, the history you don’t like and only presented those bits you do like.
            That’s my take on it and until you name, date and locate these ancient civilizations and present some real historical evidence supporting your position that the only forms of slavery practiced by Africans towards Africans , were some kinds of fluffy indentured servitude or to convert POW’s into family members within their harmonious societies, but nothing more and nothing worse, I’m going to have say you’re talking smack
            The anecdotal speculation which is all you have presented so far, along with a sprinkling of anti-white rhetoric does not really make for a strong argument.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Are you mental?

            You sound like a step dog.

            Your attempt at being impartial actually comes off as being way more biased than you think…

            A “cursory” read from any view pointed should have exposed you to more than a few points… there’s no need for cherry picking at all.

            Kinship formed the core of Africa’s pre-colonial social structure. Kinship relations and the kin group were dominant elements in Africa’s social system. Kinship provided both the idiom and the metaphor for social relations. Kinship ties were derived from consanguinity, marriage or adoption. Slaves were often integrated into the kin of their owners either by adoption or marriage.

            Among the Tuaregs and the Berbers of North Africa, slaves were regarded as part of the family ( Africa’s Slaves Today, J. Derrick, London 1975, p. 24-40). Baier and Lovejoy relate that the slave was called AIklan by the Tuareg, and he/she was integrated into Tuareg society at the level of the family. Slaves were fictive children and they used kinship terms to address members of the owner’s real family (The Tuareg of Central Sudan, Baier & Lovejoy, in S. Miers & I. Kopytoff, Slavery in Africa, U.S.A. 1977, p.391-403).

            In Central Africa lineage structures were the basic social system. Slaves were assimilated into the local kin groups. Some of the ethnic groups which practiced assimilation of slaves were the Bakongo, Baluba, and the Lunda. The Ila of Zambia assimilated their slaves gradually and slowly. The little girls bought from neighbouring and culturally similar peoples were however easily assimilated. The Ila of Zambia and the Kerebe of Tanzania regarded the clan as the basic social unit. They were patrilineal, and for those persons who were no longer members of a clan as a result of slavery or other circumstances, an arrangement was made by which they could be incorporated into a new clan but in a servile status ( Miers & Kopytoff, Slavery, p. 205-212, 243; Lovejoy, Ideology, p. 41-42, 73-75; Miers, Slave Trade, p. 138-140; The Kerebe of Tanzania Hartwig, in Miers & Kopytoff, Slavery, p. 265).

            In Southern Africa the Cokwe of the Democratic Republic of the Congo ( formerly Zaire)and Angola practiced incorporative slavery. The Imbangala of Angola defined slaves aspersons who had lost the names to which they had a right by birth and had assumed low status positions affiliated either to other lineages or to one of the Kasanje political titles. The Imbangala used the positions for aliens to assimilate other strangers of various sorts in addition to slaves. The Sena of Mozambique defined the position of slaves akaporo in kinship terms. Upon arrival in their new homes, they received the mutapa or clan name of their patron. This symbolic act created fictitious links in the absence of blood relationship. The Akaporo addressed their patrons as “baba” or father, used the appropriate kin terms for other adopted relatives and paid homage to the local ancestor spirits at periodic religious ceremonies (Imbangala of Angola, Miller, in Miers & Kopytoff, Slavery, p. 205-212; The Sena of Mozambique, B. Isaacman & Isaacman, in Miers & Kopytoff, Slavery, p. 110-111).

            A few African societies did not integrate or assimilate their slaves. These were the Batawana of Botswana in Southern Africa, the Yao of East Africa, the Ila of Zambia, the Duala of Cameroon and the Shebro of Sierra Leone( Miers & Kopytoff, Slavery, p. 187,305-312, 367-388; Miers, Slave Trade, p. 118).

            Cherry pick, my ass…

          • Dr Sun

            see you can do it , however most mentioned are not Ancient civilizations and although you conceded “a few societies did not integrate or assimilate their slaves”

            for example that chattel slavery was wide spread across much of north and East Africa .Alexander, J. (2001). “Islam, Archaeology and Slavery in Africa”. World Archaeology 33 (1): 44–60.Pankhurst. Ethiopian Borderlands, p. 432.Kusimba, Chapurukha M. (2004). “The African Archaeological, even to the extent of selling slaves to Chinese traders. Review”.Archaeology of Slavery in East Africa 21 (2): 59–88.

            Alexander, J. (2001). “Islam, Archaeology and Slavery in Africa”. World Archaeology 33 (1): 44–60.states that “There is evidence of long histories of chattel slavery in the Nile river valley and Northern Africa even prior to written records by Muslim or European traders.”

            Lovejoy, Paul E. (2012). Transformations of Slavery: A History of Slavery in Africa. London: Cambridge University Press. presents good evidence on the widespread use of human sacrifice (mostly slaves) across much of Africa

            later, Several nations such as the Ashanti of present-day Ghana and the Yoruba of present-day Nigeria were involved in slave-trading. Groups such as the Imbangala of Angola and the Nyamwezi of Tanzania would serve as intermediaries or roving bands, waging war on African states to capture people for export as slaves.Henry Louis Gates Jr. “Ending the Slavery Blame-Game”. Archived from the original on 23 April 2010.

            On top of this the historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood have provided an estimate that Africans captured and then sold to Europeans around 90% of those who were shipped in the Atlantic slave trade.

            Dr. Akurang-Parry Ghanaweb.com. 29 April 2010. has argued quite convincingly that Asante rulers sold non-Asantes into slavery, they did not construct it in terms of Africans selling fellow Africans. They saw the victims for what they were, for instance, as Akuapems, without categorizing them as fellow Africans.

            So I think its fair to say your position really holds no substance. as Patrick Manning states in his concise concourse on African slavery ” Like most other regions of the world, all forms of slavery and forced labor existed in many kingdoms and societies of Africa for thousands of years” Manning, Patrick (1983). “Contours of Slavery and Social Change in Africa”.American Historical Review 88 (4): 835–857.

            Manning also shows that Slavery was practiced in diverse ways in the different communities of West Africa prior to European trade in particular With the development of the trans-Saharan slave trade and the economies of gold in the Western Sahel, a number of the major states became organized around the slave trade, including the Ghana Empire, the Mali Empire, and Songhai Empire. This has been supported by Claude Meillassoux, Meillassoux, Claude (1991). The Anthropology of Slavery: The Womb of Iron and Gold. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

            If you still want to stand on your house of cards, we can continue this. However it has been very clearly shown that your argument bears no substance, historical or substance, evidence or support within the Anthropological or historical literature .

          • mistertibbs4u

            “See you can do it?”

            Are you serious?

            I can copy and paste from the Internet as well… you’re entering a conversation as a third party, so you generally are not deserving of ANY proof otherwise you provide it YOURSELF.

            The problem with your copy and paste, is that your (and many pathetic Eurocentric historians) is you bypass the very meaning of CHATTEL.

            The meaning of CHATTEL SLAVERY is not just someone who is bought, but someone who is considered property and has no rights. The traditional African systems of slavery not only DO NOT consider the person bought or sold as pure property, but could not rise within the ranks of society. The English term “chattel slavery” fits the European definition of traditional slavery PERIOD:

            “Slavery existed in Africa, but it was not the same type of slavery that the Europeans introduced. The European form was called chattel slavery. A chattel slave is a piece of property, with no rights. Slavery within Africa was different. A slave might be enslaved in order to pay off a debt or pay for a crime. Slaves in Africa lost the protection of their family and their place in society through enslavement. But eventually they or their children might become part of their master’s family and become free. This was unlike chattel slavery, in which enslaved Africans were slaves for life, as were their children and grandchildren.”

            That’s what I told numb nuts and that’s what I’m telling you now:

            “Africans usually enslaved ‘other’ people, not their own particular ethnic, or cultural, group. Slaves were taken as prisoners of war, or enslaved in payment for debt or as punishment for crime. This enslavement was usually on a small scale. It was enough to supply the demand for slaves within Africa, but not enough to supply the demand from outside. As the demand from outsiders such as Arabs and Europeans grew, warfare and raids to get slaves and the kidnapping of individuals increased. Europeans wanted to buy enslaved Africans to work on the land they owned on the Caribbean islands and in America. They chose Africans for a number of reasons, one being because they were used to farming.”

            You wanna run me by that house of cards again?

            You two kill me…

          • Dr Sun

            Dude you have got to get educated , there never was a single “traditional African slave system” that covered all of Africa ever, this only exists in your UTOPIAN tellitube fantasy world about some “Ancient African civilizations” that never existed.
            If you have access to a university / community college or public e-library you could read the links I posted otherwise you are going to remain stuck with just posting your half baked , unsubstantive, unsupported and delusional nonsense.
            I can tell you were not born or have never lived in Africa, that is obvious and that your knowledge comes from watching “Roots” on DVD and a wiki page or two.

            your house of cards has collapsed, time for you give up.

            you don’t seem have the intellect or intelligence to know your defeated, Frank gave up on long ago (smart man), I’m cutting you loose now, so you go rant and dribble somewhere else.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “I realise you are a newbie here so I will cut you some slack.”

            You’re kidding me, right? I’ve been in China longer than this website EXISTED and I’ve BEEN HERE longer than most of the people who think they are so-called VETERANS…. remember back in the days when they used to have that god-awful pink billboard and those damn “囧” t-shirts? Or how about when McDonald’s actually served pancakes in the morning?

            Yeah, it’s been that long, so don’t try to play me like I’m a newbie… think of me as your old uncle… so kill that noise, dude… I don’t recall seeing your name back when I first started visiting this website (which I visited from a mention on a YouTube comment so so so long ago), but you don’t need to cut me any “slack”.

            So now you’re telling me that I wasn’t the one who couldn’t answer a question? Do you remember this?

            “Please… Look at Mauritania now and other places in Africa where slavery is more or less legal.. To believe that Africans thought to a slave like a family.. How many of your family members you sell usually? I think these are the kind of stories you like to tell yourselves.. Does this help you to think better of other Africans? If it helps please go on telling yourself.”

            This was his central point some 12 or 13 hours ago… I already told him that Africans had slaves and thought of their slaves to be more like a part of their family structure… no utopia was mentioned, no magical society at all… unfortunately, he has a pension for exaggerating and you got caught up in it without examining YOUR facts…

            Do you see any mention of China, or Japan or Persia? NO I didn’t think so… so miss me with that nonsense that you’re trying to inject into the conversation… until the 15th century, the foreign concept of slaves as pure chattel slavery did not exist, because slaves were important social inserts into African political, familial and social system.

            First, he spazzes out:

            You are the one proudly telling black dudes spread aids in Europe and now try to recycle yourself as a reasonable one right?

            wtf???

            Then he goes on to reiterate:

            “Hahah… Yes, because you evidently make slaves of your family and have no problem in selling them. Sorry dude, back to reality….there has never been something like human and good slavery.. I wonder what common sense tell you…not a lot seems”

            Wow… making slaves… selling them… and they’re still your FAMILY…

            So you can keep the Asian mentions to yourself, because as you can see the core concept of this ENTIRE conversation is how could Africans sell slaves (in his mind he’s thinking chattel slavery) and still retain close connections and afford rights.

            It’s called civility and it existed before the arrival of Europeans.

            So if you call Frank’s gamma male ascension into the heavens of losers a move of a smart man… then a smart man you are not.

            “your house of cards has collapsed, time for you give up.”

            Are you a Kevin Spacey fan? You know that’s not a “thing” anymore, right?

            No one really says house of cards outside of some lame middle aged right-winger anchors who clearly have ran out of terms to use for their talk shows.

            BOTH of you are done and have been giving different spins on the SAME CONVERSATION.

            It’s not wise for you to support a person so foolish and also someone who paraphrases other people by inserting quotes of his own?

            Is English your first language as well?

            In the words of the great poet Cam’ron…

            “You DONE for the night, B…”

            Seacrest, out…

            and that folks… is how you school people who need to be schooled.

          • Dr Sun

            I’m sorry but you continue to refuse the answer the questions I posed, or present any evidence, you just keep repeating things like this ” Africans had slaves and thought of their slaves to be more like a part of their family structure”, without anything more than scant anecdotal evidence from accounts of a few modern tribes. You have still yet to provide anything on your unnamed ancient African civilizations.
            You have however been presented over 30 papers that refute you, but you seem unable to accept that the weight of historical and anthropological work does not support your fluffy family view of traditional slavery in Africa.

            I realise your goal is to say that although slavery did exist it was some sort of “soft,sweet, loving kind of slavery” nothing like that that of the Colonists . However the evidence does not support you, at all.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Then your definition as a newbie is flawed…

            The definition of a newbie is not someone who is new to participation, but someone who is inexperienced in the concept of participation and that I am not.

            Since when did you present 30 papers? Whose grasping at straws now?

            Since when did social construct become “soft,sweet, loving kind of slavery”?

            This is a problem of projection. You assume either slavery was horrible or the other option is that it was “soft,sweet, loving kind of slavery”.

            There is however the third option, which is that slavery was not created to dehumanize, or was it built to be a permanent construct, as opposed to chattel slavery.

            THAT is my goal. The evidence DOES support, I’ve posted it and I’ll be waiting on these 30 papers of which you speak.

            “I realise something as simple as conducting a literature review may be beyond your educational level, but you should at least try.”

            This makes no sense whatsoever. And at this point, neither do you.

          • Dr Sun

            twist,divert, deflect all you like, you are just embarrassing your self more. Go read something,anything,I don’t care. Your entire argument has been blown apart, your feeble house of cards collapsed long ago.
            Get over it, learn from it. If your going to play with the big boys on here, your”e going to have to have to have a better “A-Game” than the high school debating tactics you have displayed so far.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “twist,divert, deflect all you like, you are just embarrassing your self more. ”

            Yeah, right.. this entire argument is apart of a historical project I’m currently working on right now… that means that these papers I’m referring to are on my desk RIGHT NOW.

            NOT because of this conversation, but because I was already WORKING on it. Go marinate on that for a second.

            The only reason I responded Frank’s Africans selling Africans statement is because of his ridiculous insinuation that African slavery was somehow responsible for the forthcoming atrocity of the Transatlantic slave trade. Stated it in the beginning and still stating it now.

            “Get over it, learn from it.”

            The issue is that I’ve already learned and if you would like to be worth your salt–search engine jockey–in the future, do more than search for a document, an then reference it on the Internet, as if you’ve done some monumental search.

            Granted, I have advantages over you, given that this argument is already in my search engine and on my desk at the time of argument, but please… make SOME efforts. That lazy British way of arguing by using already refuted and border-lined racist works by other people that have already been refuted.

            That’s what lost the British Egyptological arguments on the Pharaohs way back when.

            “If your going to play with the big boys on here”

            You mean you? Dude, I’ve been here for more than three years, far from a newbie, and trust me… after having to read your posts over the span of this time, 1) a big boy you are not and 2) the content of most of your posts are fraternity-grade. You expect me after reading most of your posts that your conversation is dominated by engaging conversation?

            FOH (look it up).

            “your”e going to have to have to have a better “A-Game” than the high school debating tactics you have displayed so far.”

            I’d say you should probably follow that advice.

          • Zappa Frank

            Yes you have tons of docs, and apparently your work is to be an historian in China that do research about African history if they are on your desk for work. But sadly enough you don’t want to share with us, that is strange because would be a great tool to push your point. Things are two then, or you are an idiot that don’t use his tools, or those tools don’t exist.

            You like to say “everyone will see, everyone will know” hoping that they will come to help and give you support or at last approvation (that confirm you are not alpha male, sad claim of yours) but this still have not happened and the few that wrote didn’t seem to be in agreement with your point, also because till now your point was “African ancient civilization…that I don’t know which from when to when, but now let’s not be picky…was great! Slavery in Africa (whose dime sin can change according to my needs) was something better than in other places…Believe me! Just trust me because I say so”….. Wow good point. Actually you are the only one here to believe to still have a point.
            In the end you admited at least that Africans enslaved other Africans and sold to Europeans. Still the ridiculous point of Africans that for hundreds years don’t realize what’s going on… Now after that if you would be a decent man with good manners you should apologize since the core point has been lost. But I doubt you have any good manner like you showed here till now and is sad because you contribute to perpetuate the stereotype of the uneducated brute, the almost beast Blackman. That’s once more made of you a bad example for all the afroamericans.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Yes you have tons of docs, and apparently your work is to be an historian in China that do research about African history if they are on your desk for work. But sadly enough you don’t want to share with us, that is strange because would be a great tool to push your point. Things are two then, or you are an idiot that don’t use his tools, or those tools don’t exist.”

            No, my work in China is what makes me money. What makes me money and my anthropological work have NO relation. You think anthropology pays the bills? You must be crazy. Light industry, marketing and big data pay the bills of an entrepreneur in China. That’s why those are areas of focus. That’s called thinking like a boss. If you’re in it for the money, you’ll 1) bend the truth and facts for profit and 2) won’t make much of an effort… I do this for the interest, and THAT’S where my stamina comes from… putting people like you in their place is a hobby as well… just think about it this way…

            If you didn’t make a statement of elusion, you wouldn’t BE in this situation… but you did, and here we are…

            “that confirm you are not alpha male, sad claim of yours”

            You must be one of those common breeds of ass clowns that receive their definitions of words from movie and TV show references.. do you even know what an alpha male is?

            In all of my social circles, both in China and the United States of America, I maintain a high social status… easily… and without the use of coercion OR force (I don’t require the methodology of chattel slavery to maintain control in a room… I simply get in where I fit in, and that’s at the top).

            I provide value, opportunity for not only myself, but all of those around me, which is why… I and not YOU… are an alpha male. I bet you think an alpha male is the guy who always GETS the girl… and the guys want to be like…

            Nah dude… I’m resourceful and provide value… I don’t chase girls, they chase me… I don’t ask to be a leader, I’m asked to lead… and not based specifically on just my looks or appearance OR my swagger… OR my knowledge…

            But because the combination of all of these things with my in person humility is what makes me an alpha male you could even add superior alpha male, given the fact that I don’t fight for it…

            “In the end you admited at least that Africans enslaved other Africans and sold to Europeans.”

            I know you’d like to still hang on to the lie that this was your original point… this was your original statement and I’M the one who saw past it… when you replied with your Mauritania statement, I CONFIRMED what you were inferring and I CALLED YOU on it.

            You do that thing that border-lined racist white guys do when they’ve mistakenly try to checkmate an alpha male and their back is against the wall… you stop providing real-time information and try to latch on to at least a base statement you made previously and attempt to drive home this point.

            The point has always been (I should know, I’m the one who replied to yours in the first place) is that your Africans selling Africans is somehow under the guise of Africans selling Africans INTO chattel slavery. Africans were selling Africans into up until that point was an ancient, historical, global and SOCIAL institution, regardless of profit or plunder… the hole in your argument was your first statement regarding Mauritania, which is a post-chattel slavery nation state.

            THAT’S where you f’ed up… and your argument has BEEN finished since then…

            When I ask you do you know who you’re talking to, that’s EXACTLY what I meant…

            But you don’t get it, do you… still think you’re getting out of this with some sort of comeuppance as opposed to the same lashing you received before… BY ME.

            ” But I doubt you have any good manner like you showed here till now and is sad because you contribute to perpetuate the stereotype of the uneducated brute, the almost beast Blackman.”

            How you ended up concocting a statement that ends up making me look better and you look worse is beyond me… you see, at this point, it is a battle of MYSELF vs. what your mind PERCEIVES me to be… it’s a real-time subconsciously racist psychoactive mental experiment… and you’re the white lab rat.

            “You seem like the daughter of my friend, when we play rock scissor paper she always shout “我赢了!” regardless of the result …but she is a baby of 3 years old, and her mother by now told her that she cannot decide by herself whether she won or not…. Probably your mother didn’t”

            Terrible analogy.

            You’re done, B…

          • Zappa Frank

            Wow back with the bullshit of the alpha male. You are rally something, make yourself ridicule without realizing it. Hahaha…that’s not alpha male at all, neither is look for the approvment of the public. Ok I got it, even for that you have no idea of what you are talking about. So tell me, if you think people ask you to lead and the other stuff, how come here nobody give a fuck about you? Strange right? I find amusing you can write all this stuff about alpha male without feeling embarrassed, gives me douchechills. Strange, the alpha male thing don’t work here online… You are so ridicule that I suspect you do on pourpose.
            About the point, read again my first post, the one you replied to, that was the main point. Than you switched to the African slavery style…..that still wait an evidence from you….I came after gym to see if finally you posted some docs..but nothing again. I start to doubt you have any docs

            Ah yes how can I forget, once cornered the balck dude play the card of the racism…so now I’m racist and I have to racist just because you are black? So Well for me you are the racist..and now?whinnig about racism is not alpha male at all..

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Wow back with the bullshit of the alpha male. You are rally something, make yourself ridicule without realizing it. Hahaha…that’s not alpha male at all, neither is look for the approvment of the public. Ok I got it, even for that you have no idea of what you are talking about. So tell me, if you think people ask you to lead and the other stuff, how come here nobody give a fuck about you? Strange right? I find amusing you can write all this stuff about alpha male without feeling embarrassed, gives me douchechills. Strange, the alpha male thing don’t work here online… You are so ridicule that I suspect you do on pourpose.”

            I know I’m something… hence the term “alpha”.

            I didn’t say I THOUGHT people asked me to lead, I’m SAYING that people ASK me to lead and PLACE me in leadership positions because they recognize my ability and skill… I don’t go hobnobbing around for a top social position… it’s what I accept… team player turned team leader… feel free to take notes.

            The only thing you should find amusing at this point is your attempt to throw a laugh or two in between the sentences of your posts as if you’re ACTUALLY embarrassed for anything that I say.

            I’m assuming you mean ridiculous… why would anyone want to be ridiculous on purpose… and ask I ask this question, I realize that it completely fits the question I have for you… I mean you see your posts, you see the statements you’ve made about Africans and blacks… yet, you’re embarrassed for me. Interesting.

            “About the point, read again my first post, the one you replied to, that was the main point. Than you switched to the African slavery style…..that still wait an evidence from you….I came after gym to see if finally you posted some docs..but nothing again. I start to doubt you have any docs”

            No, you weren’t making a point. You made a statement, directed at someone other than myself. If you recall, that’s the same thing that happened the first time I had to put you in your place. Then, just like now I called you on it. After I called you on your statement, ONLY THEN did you come out and make your point, which is equating modern day slavery with the existing slavery system of traditional Africa.

            We can do this all day dude… I’m all for educating the under privileged.

            You’ve been provided documentation as well as citations and while we’re at it, the only thing you and Mr. Sun over there provided were REFERENCES, not actual documents or even the least bit of an UNDERSTANDING of those documents. I’m actually reading new documents and looking at ones that I’ve already read over the same period. This is not hard, bro… not at all.

            First, it was your original statement… and let me guess… now you’re going to start to fixate on “the docs”… after having been provided information… where are these “docs” you never provided… when will it stop? You want an email as well?

            You’re ridiculous…

            “Ah yes how can I forget, once cornered the balck dude play the card of the racism…so now I’m racist and I have to racist just because you are black? So Well for me you are the racist..and now?whinnig about racism is not alpha male at all..”

            So far, my original reply to you pointed out that white American chattel slavery was different from African slavery… you’ve pointed out babbling Africans… brutes and savages that sold their own people with full knowledge of a chattel slavery system they never participated in (retarded) but I’m the racist….

            right?

            You really shouldn’t be trusted around social media.

            And then I’m whining… I’m WINNING is more like it. I could be CHARLIE SHEEN HIMSELF with a pint of Tiger Blood in tow and I STILL couldn’t be more WINNING at this argument with you…

            But I forgot… you’re the one that wanted to be done with the conversation, right?

            Checkmate.

          • Zappa Frank

            Again self declaring to be the winner. Sure you have a lot in common with the daughter of my friend

            Than again the story of the alpha…you know more you type less people likely will read? Why react yourself about the same story you wrote only one post ago? Second realize, no one is in your life to confirm or not what you are in real life, but to come online and claim results on real life that you attribute to yourself and that therefore should make you an alpha male is pathetic. Do you realize that?
            Second question, by any definition an alpha male ask for approvement of public? You did more than one time.. You refers many time to a public that you think read our stuff and that would approve you while would not approve me. This public have to manifest yet after two days. On cs many people read is true, but don’t read all, sure don’t read flames.

            You still have to send references or links about the so called African ancient civilization that was God and mighty…. Waiting. Provide some links. You work with Internet, should be easy for you right?

            My first post was “Africans sold Africans to white, salves were bought by whites not ensalved”. Now this is my point, can you reply in one word if is true or not? Just true or false. About the African slavery system I cannot care less.
            The second point is about Africans were aware or not of what was going to be of the slaves. Again, I ask you a direct question, do you believe that in hundreds years Africans did not realize what was going to be of slaves? Yes or no?

            Simple. Two questions. Yes or no answers.

            Yes you are the racist for all your statements like “typical white man answer” and so on… And is pitful that you don’t even realize. Am I racist? Quote my racist sentences then and we can seriously see if I’m…out of this joke. I know I’m not and I don’t need your aprovement.

            Now please write again a poem of 50 a4 pages and at the end do not forget to declare yourself the winner, that makes you every time more omega.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Than again the story of the alpha…you know more you type less people likely will read? Why react yourself about the same story you wrote only one post ago? Second realize, no one is in your life to confirm or not what you are in real life, but to come online and claim results on real life that you attribute to yourself and that therefore should make you an alpha male is pathetic. Do you realize that?”

            Right… and if I wrote far less, you’d be championing about how I have nothing else left to say… if I wrote more, I’m just talking for no reason.

            No thanks, I prefer to type as much is needed to make all of the garbage you type appear to just that… garbage. No, the life I live is what makes me an alpha male. Don’t be jealous of me, just because you can’t make the claim as well. It’s not that hard. Like I said, take notes and you may learn something.

            “Second question, by any definition an alpha male ask for approvement of public? You did more than one time.. You refers many time to a public that you think read our stuff and that would approve you while would not approve me. This public have to manifest yet after two days. On cs many people read is true, but don’t read all, sure don’t read flames.”

            No, alpha males don’t ask for approval from the public and neither have I. Were you trying to separate the two and make a point? You can use words like flame and troll… and while these terms are personifications of certain people, most of the people who insinuate they have them (such as yourself), are you usually just to weak to argue a point and quickly refer to them as “get out of argument free” cards. That doesn’t work with me.

            “My first post was “Africans sold Africans to white, salves were bought by whites not ensalved”. Now this is my point, can you reply in one word if is true or not? Just true or false. About the African slavery system I cannot care less.”

            And that is why you will fail to win this argument or even make a dent in it… because your original insinuation was NOT that, that is what you deduced it down to after your first few replies didn’t scare me off like it does when an ESL speaker makes a valid point. I’m NOT an ESL speaker and I don’t carry any of the lame baggage that comes with it either… we can get into this all day long… as long as you keep asking, I’ll keep telling. People like you are passive aggressive Napoleonites… you first appear to be making a point, and then pose specific questions that were not apart of your original intention, expecting someone to slip up and forget where your ideas originally laid.

            I haven’t forgotten and the more you keep asking the question, the more it’s burned into my mind that you clearly have lost your way. There’s nothing to slip on over here… and the reason why is because this is my CURRENT FIELD OF STUDY. Not a fleeting board conversation. I’m not GOING anywhere… until you learn the error of your thought process on the issue and your smug initial statement, we can do this all day long. I have absolutely no problem with that.

            “The second point is about Africans were aware or not of what was going to be of the slaves. Again, I ask you a direct question, do you believe that in hundreds years Africans did not realize what was going to be of slaves? Yes or no?”

            Again, this is a dumb question I can’t be caught in because the concept of slavery was different for both parties. The answer is the concept of pure chattel slavery was foreign to traditional African slave cultures and that has always been the truth. You’re attempting to encompass the truth and your lie into a simple yes or no.

            Boy, do you think you’re talking to someone who would fall for something like that? You better get right and try again… go have a sandwich or watch TV or whatever it is you do… because I’ll be RIGHT HERE… waiting to respond to you. Try again.

            As I said before… I’ll wait!

            “Now please write again a poem of 50 a4 pages and at the end do not forget to declare yourself the winner, that makes you every time more omega.”

            An omega is only an omega in the sense that they are aware they are omega… an omega can’t be someone who is confident enough to state otherwise. That’s what makes them omega.

            Someone forgot to eat their breakfast today…

          • Zappa Frank

            Again seems impossible for you to write it short.
            Sorry you don’t have to interpret my meaning,, I know what I said, no need for you to twist it. Can you quote my first post? Can you? Do it please.
            when I asked the question I wanted a reply they despite all is not arrived yet. Hard to write yes or no? Apparently is hard.
            About the alpha male stuff again, here you are what you write, not what you claim to be. Here you asked aprovement of the unexistant public many times. You even said you will show this conversation to someone when you get back (not clear whether you mean back to Us or where) that’s not alpha male, that’s not even beta… Even omega is keeping distance from you now.
            I re bed I asked you links about your African slavery stuff. Where are? Nothing again… Even with all my belevolence you think I have to blindly trust you? You seem like the eleusynans that my cousin joint years ago…they had all the truth, but unlucky they always refused to show any of the documents that they keep

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Again seems impossible for you to write it short. Sorry you don’t have to interpret my meaning,, I know what I said, no need for you to twist it. Can you quote my first post? Can you? Do it please.”

            If you didn’t right as much nonsense has you do, I wouldn’t have to write as much. You’re creating the problem you’re complaining about. You’re not that sharp.

            No, I KNOW you know what you said… running around what you said and what you MEANT is the problem you seem to be having. This is the same reason why I checked you before, and it’s the reason why I’m checking you now.

            I’ve quoted your first post THREE TIMES. Now you want me to do again. Are you trying to bide time? Are you admitting to thread that you don’t have a good record of paying attention? By all means, keep up the charade… and I’ll keep checking you.

            “About the alpha male stuff again, here you are what you write, not what you claim to be. Here you asked aprovement of the unexistant public many times. You even said you will show this conversation to someone when you get back (not clear whether you mean back to Us or where) that’s not alpha male, that’s not even beta… Even omega is keeping distance from you now. ”

            The problem is you couldn’t repost me asking for public approval if you wanted to. Want to know why? Because I haven’t. It’s that simple. I think you’ve been arguing with people whose first language is either not English or cannot hold a decent conversation for too long, because the tactics you use aren’t challenging at all. They’re easy to see a mile away, tired and lame.

            I did show your conversation to someone on my laptop when I got back and boy did we share a couple of laughs over your silly ass… but that person was in person… I’m still waiting for you to paraphrase me with accuracy. It’s an ongoing theme in this thread that you keep paraphrasing without actually paraphrasing what I actually said.

            Not sure why you can’t keep it together though… we can continue until you get it right, because when you are being checked by myself it would be better if you’re at least making some sort of sense.

            “I re bed I asked you links about your African slavery stuff. Where are? Nothing again… Even with all my belevolence you think I have to blindly trust you? You seem like the eleusynans that my cousin joint years ago…they had all the truth, but unlucky they always refused to show any of the documents that they keep”

            When you’ve proven to the both of us that you’re not trustworthy with your own conversation, I don’t think we can count that as blindly trusting me. I’ve already posted enough for you to trust that what I’m talking about and what you’re talking about are on two different competency levels. And mine is clearly higher than yours.

            So like I said… feel free to trust mine and learn something.

            Remember, as I said before… if the conversation was about the history of the Tang dynasty or Ecuadorian current events, you wouldn’t find me saying a word. I get in where I fit in.

            The problem with foreigners like you is when you join a site like this, you get a false sense of superiority because even without a point, it’s fairly easy to argue down a person whose English level is not that great.

            However, mine is impeccable (obviously because it’s native) and most importantly I KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. The reason why you can’t check me is because I don’t discuss topics of which I’m not well versed. I find it’s much more productive to listen to what others have to say and at the very least, do some research before I chime in on the topic.

            That’s where Mrs. Sun faltered because he obviously hadn’t done any research on the topic and unfortunately for him, most of the top Google searches for things like slavery (trust me, I’ve been searching on this topic for the last six months) for Bing and Google together return general documents related to worksheets, homework assignments and general history or tourist information.

            The same for you, dude. You don’t know SHIT about pre-colonial African slavery, which makes you incompetent to hold a basic conversation.

            The reason why you are so deep into a conversation you can’t get out, is because I already studied your tactic the last time you ran out.

            If I provide you with too much information in the beginning, you just leave as opposed to admit that you were wrong… pretending that the other person is the problem.

            So this time, I slowly released my information and facts… slowly enough that you would get cocky and never leave.

            And THAT’S where you are now. If you leave now, all the words that you typed before will become a bunch of useless nonsense and two days of wasted time.

            For me, though? This is research and (with you) basic level conversation. We haven’t even gotten into the deeper conversations about this topic and you haven’t read enough to do so.

            Think about it… haha… I got you this time…

          • mistertibbs4u

            Are you waning off?

            At one point, you had like four different responses coming in, now you only have one. This means that you 1) stopped replying to over half my questions and comments for you and 2) probably are tiring of keeping up with your own drivel.

            I have no problem with replying to every single one of them. I mean they were important enough for you to type in the first place, right?

            Or did you think that sending more than two conversations was somehow going to be intimidating?

            Either way, I’d appreciate a reply for those as well.

            No excuses.

          • Zappa Frank

            Make me a list of your question and I promise I will reply ok? Let’s try to make it as more schematic as possible so nothing to hide with verbal 拉肚子

          • mistertibbs4u

            Nah bruh it’s too late for that… I asked you to do that yesterday… you instead jumped on the back of Sun, who came and supported you.

            I’ve already listed my points and you wasted all that time instead insulting Africans instead of reading all the facts that I wrote.

            You are essentially begging for a “do over” so you can find a new point to latch on to and gain some more steam and momentum.

            At least be sly with your intentions, man. This isn’t my first bout with you and as long as you’re on this site talking garbage, pretending to be relevant it won’t be the last.

            I look forward to much more in the future. I hope you’re more challenging next time.

            这老外,好多次已经告诉你给我你的proof。混蛋,太晚了!

            你跟美国黑人说slavery的历史,请准备好了!

            It’s great when you can type on your own and don’t need google translate, isn’t it?

          • Zappa Frank

            I find amusing that you take a pride of that basic Chinese. if that’s all you can say after so many years here I wouldn’t be so happy like you seem about it, that’s really easy. HKS level 3 more or less.
            Again declaring yourself the winner, like a child. Still no answer no evidence.. really a little baby.
            What will your public think about this? it’s not much of an alpha male.
            As more as we go on as more we go in circle since you show, every day more, that you don’t have the very basic to discuss. Then the only thing that remains is to declare yourself the winner, like you are doing since the very beginning…. or better in the beginning you supposed a public would have arrived to declare you the winner , sadly didn’t happen and now you just have to declare yourself to be the winner. That is sad, but if we add the claims of to be an alpha male is even pathetic. Well considering your argumentations is not unknown to you to be pathetic.
            You know what? keep on declaring yourself the winner. Like you said I’m sure you’ll have many other chance to embarrass yourself.

            last thing. you made fun of my English before, no problem, is not my first language and I know my limits, still it took several posts for you to spot me. But is strange that you make fun of me with such level of Chinese language…..I expect you to know another language at least at the same level of my English ok?

          • Dr Sun

            that isn’t Chinese, he posted frank, it’s babble fish , LOL

            He’s out of his league on here, no wonder he didn’t post for 3 years .ROFL

          • hess

            You and Zappa should both be given medals for replying to this guy for almost a week now, seriously he is even worse than eattot and gave me loads of laughs. The funniest one is how he claims to be a hotshot in “Internet Technology” Note The ‘Internet’ instead of ‘Information’

          • Dr Sun

            only a week, it felt like a lifetime ,LOL

          • hess

            You should be given purple hearts both of you lol. I’ll be in Shanghai in April, drinks on me for real

          • mistertibbs4u

            “I find amusing that you take a pride of that basic Chinese. if that’s all you can say after so many years here I wouldn’t be so happy like you seem about it, that’s really easy. HKS level 3 more or less.”

            Like I said, you don’t know who you’re talking to. I’ve been here for 6 years and I’ve been HSK level 6 for the past two years. But keep getting cocky and thinking you know who I am… I promise you, although seemingly impossible… you will continue to look dumber and dumber as time progresses.

            “What will your public think about this? it’s not much of an alpha male.”

            Another semblance of you starting to feel inadequate about this entire conversation. Whenever you run out of steam, you have to start trumping up natural facts like the terms I use (which apply to you 100%), my habits and everything about this argument that makes you look like an idiot. Repeating them more than I do.

            Again, you’re not going to make me stop using them. They’re stamps on your forehead, meant to make you look like a loser, because you ARE a loser. Complain as you like, but the fact that you ran to the level of Chinese that used ASSUMING that it was my highest level makes you look dumb.

            Easier than I thought. You’re like a monkey whose easily excited if you think it’s advantageous and immediately runs the other way if you feel threatened.

            That’s your nature. I guess you can’t help it.

            “Again declaring yourself the winner, like a child. Still no answer no evidence.. really a little baby.”

            You’ve already been answered. You can keep asking as if it’s going to make you look more intelligent, but it’s not. I’ve already gave my quotes, stated why they were important and why your initial insinuation makes you look like an idiot… but of course you’re not going to respond to that, because there’s nothing for you to do but admit the truth… and we all know you’re not going to do that, now are you?

            “As more as we go on as more we go in circle since you show, every day more, that you don’t have the very basic to discuss. Then the only thing that remains is to declare yourself the winner, like you are doing since the very beginning…. or better in the beginning you supposed a public would have arrived to declare you the winner , sadly didn’t happen and now you just have to declare yourself to be the winner. That is sad, but if we add the claims of to be an alpha male is even pathetic. Well considering your argumentations is not unknown to you to be pathetic.”

            While you’re unwillingness to admit to your original intent may be circular, my conversation is very much linear.

            I wonder what it’s like to be you… to be so obviously wrong but with every response you’re just repeating the same mantra of “you always declare yourself winner” (you’re repeating yourself), finding different ways to use the term “pathetic” (you’re repeating yourself) and constantly having to address my alpha male status (you’re repeating yourself, of which I find particularly interesting, given the idea that you seem to be questioning your own status).

            I also find the fact that you are now starting to involve “the public” more into your argument as interesting as well. While I said that people will see the nonsense you’ve posted and declare you an idiot… just like a loser, you take something that is initially cool, and use it in a way that makes it uncool. It’s typical of a person like you, so I’m not necessarily surprised.

            But the fact that you now realize you are completely incapable of driving your point home (because you don’t have one), we can now identify this “public” stance as YOUR last stance…

            On your last legs and you still haven’t made much of an impression.

            I’ll forget your lazy attempt to “befriend” me with a do over as long as you continue to make your point until you realize you have none.

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            do you realize that till now e have plenty of your claims and results in the real word but still nothing to show ANY of them? We asked the documents you were ball bling about, on your desk…NOTHING . Now in your teenager retohoric winner/loser cool/uncool…never seen in my life adults to talk like that…you even add you have hsk 6…. sorry, your chinese is not hks6 level (maybe was when total levels were 11) but here an easy task..show me. At least this you can show? Or you want keep on behave like a teenager?
            On one pioint you are right, I reap the story of the winner alpha male and so on…simply because you have never stopped to claim victory…is so funny that you say I keep on repeat this while it is from your first post that you repay yourself on all the alpha male victory,loser uncool stuff ….but no any discussion or proof of your risible theory.

            I’ve made my point by far. Africans were ensalved and sold by others Africans? Yes. All finished.

            Still hoping to have a public that will declare you winner I see….its three days we are here showing that WE ARE STUPIDS…do you realize that? And still you expect a public…unbelivable.

            We’ve done here. nothing to see anymore…. But worry not, I’m sure will meet again.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “do you realize that till now e have plenty of your claims and results in the real word but still nothing to show ANY of them? We asked the documents you were ball bling about, on your desk…NOTHING . Now in your teenager retohoric winner/loser cool/uncool…never seen in my life adults to talk like that…you even add you have hsk 6…. sorry, your chinese is not hks6 level (maybe was when total levels were 11) but here an easy task..show me. At least this you can show? Or you want keep on behave like a teenager? ”

            You do realize that using oral Chinese has nothing to do with your proper grammatical use of Mandarin Chinese, right? And NO, I’m not talking about HSK level 6 when there were a total of 11 levels (and frankly harder than now), I’m talking about HSK level 6, NOW.

            Had I not have a relevant point to make, I might have tried to show my prowess in using proper Mandarin Chinese, but in essence after taking the HSK level 6 test, you DO realize that using that level of Chinese in public is a LITTLE too formal, right?

            And the fact that you don’t KNOW that shows that you’re Chinese level must not be that great. That’s just the FIRST reason your Chinese level isn’t great. The second, is some of the comments I’ve seen you make on this board shows you don’t have a great comprehension of current Chinese culture. Some of the things that you say are a little too “foreign” and smack of someone who isn’t familiar with why Chinese do what they do and say what they say.

            Like I said, I may not speak much on here (and not any before my present two weeks), but I’m not unfamiliar with your conversation, so you need to remember that before you can feign any type of authority of my Chinese level, what I know and what I don’t know.

            I can also tell by your response that you don’t have much business personally with Chinese MEN. I mean real Chinese men who do business, not the ones who feign over contact with foreigners and want to learn English from you, but even ones who don’t care for dealing with foreigners too much, but because of your proficient level of cultural understanding (which is WAYY more important than speaking the dry Chinese from the HSK preparation books, or frankly the fake street Chinese from the “speak like a pro” books). How much Shanghainese, Chaozhou dialect, Minnan language or Cantonese have YOU had to pick up in a two weeks notice to get a contract signed or an order shipped?

            You don’t know SHIT about my Chinese level and why I wouldn’t start a conversation with proficient Chinese, because once you speak proficiently, you’ve picked up more than just the language, but the thought process of those who speak it.

            I single handedly translate a modern concept such as “diaosi” by myself from several different articles, the CHINESE version of Wikipedia (Baike) AND concoct them all into a well-thought out essay within 20 minutes…

            and you have the nerve to question my Chinese level, or my status on HSK exams?

            You ARE a 屌丝. In EVERY MEANING OF THE WORD.

            Haha….

            “I’ve made my point by far. Africans were ensalved and sold by others Africans? Yes. All finished.”

            No, that was your first statement when you thought you were having a small discussion on slavery yourself….

            Your “coup d’état” was when you tried to unsuccessfully insinuate that Africans were savages because they sold other Africans into slavery, as if they were chattel, as opposed to sending rival tribes into the social construct that they were familiar with themselves.

            It showed an arrogant and ignorant view on world events, one that started with the ignorance of Eurocentric historians and until recently has been refuted successfully by the works of authors that I’m familiar with because of reading their previous works, but you (and “Dr.” Sun) would only be familiar with because of a quick Google search (you expect me to believe that the material you copied onto this website was RESEARCHED by YOU OR HIM within the hour you posted?) Of which you never even READ, which shows you have ZERO RESPECT for the material at hand, which further illustrates that you are not prepared to discuss the topic in any serious measure.

            If I expect to win an argument about a topic, I don’t just request information… I find out the aspect of the argument the other person keeps driving home and try to DESTROY that. I don’t just SIT THERE requesting information, when the person already gave it to me… and that’s EXACTLY why you LOST this argument. Because you didn’t even READ the information you provided YOURSELF, much less the quote and the author I provided.

            Both of you have been incredibly lazy and this is why I have the energy to continue.

            I bet I’ve posted more “fair enough”s and “that’s right”s in reply to what others have posted to me (because they were correct) in my TWO WEEKS HERE than you have your entire lifetime of posting on ChinaSmack.

            So whose the one with a credibility issue here? It always HAS BEEN you.

            So you HAVEN’T made your point. Your statement before I joined was Africans enslaved Africans… I checked you and told you not to insinuate that African slavery was even REMOTELY the same as European transatlantic slavery.

            THAT’S when you lost… before you even started… and then you replied trying to gain a lazy upper hand by stating we could view Mauritania to see that Africans continued to enslave their own and they were brutes and savages.

            I then went on to show, quote and PROVE that this was NOT TRUE.

            After you lost that argument, you went on for a while trying to insult Africans, accusing me of saying Africans should spread AIDS in Europe (you’re a cooky dude) and then tried to get under my skin (impossible) by insulting Africans again and THEN going as far as to call me racist.

            THAT in essence is the ENTIRE argument and since then you tried to hide… linger.. crawl under and BECOME an argument that your STATEMENT of Africans selling Africans was your only point.

            Had you just listened to what I was trying to tell you, you wouldn’t have looked as dumb as you do RIGHT NOW.

            So, we’re NOT done here because you’ve YET to prove your POINT… all you did was repeat your initial statement which was NOT your point… and you will NEVER prove your ridiculous point which is that Europeans bear a smaller portion of blame for the slave trade because Africans had already been trading their own for so long.

            You finally realized that their slavery and chattel slavery were different constructs, so you instead tried to weasel under a COMMENT.

            I’ve had my fair share of arguments with losers like you and you won’t be the first (or the last) person to be digested through my facts.

            I realize that you just became apart of my current research into “public misperception about Africans role in slavery and the current Eurocentric revisiting of the damage caused by the European Transatlantic slave trade”

            LIKE I SAID… I work on this constantly….

            You? NOT SO MUCH.

            So until you prove your point or at least admit that you were wrong, I already told you, anything less is you admitting you were incorrect.

            It’s not a pissing contest, it’s a comparison of thought and idea vs. perception.

            Yours is clearly over and now for you it’s a simple concept vs. “pride vs. prejudice”.

            And like I said stop stealing my lines, Iggy… make your own material. I know we’ll meet again because I already said that in a previous post…

            As long as you spout garbage, I’ll continue to check you… not in a harassing way, but from this day forward you losers who use this board as an excuse to spew garbage unchecked for long periods of time…

            WILL be checked by me…

            Alpha males don’t have to enroll in the police academy… it’s our civic duty.

            So… YOU’RE DONE HERE… I haven’t even gotten started. Your lack of participation with facts has led you to go from a potential “you’re right” to a “you’re wrong” to a “I got this guy” to a “shit, I have nothing left” to a “yeah, another poster to the rescue” to “damn, I’m on my own” to a “how do I get out of this” to a “damn, is this guy ever gonna shut up” to a “I think I might have possibly ruined my chinasmack reputation” to a “screw it… let me wrap this up and save some face” to NOW.

            We haven’t even gotten into the REAL argument because you won’t admit your point but instead latched on to your statement. That’s like having a thesis with no point of example.

            That’s why essentially, you haven’t even STARTED, bro…

            Like I said…

            “Done for the night, B!”

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            Your mandarin exists in the same fantasy space of your documents I guess. For both you demand a blindly trust.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Right… and my dissertation on a Chinese term exists in some fantasy space as well.

            You’re not too bright, dude… and that’s why you have no standing. I don’t like seeing your replies so short as well, especially when I reply to at least 75% of your statements (usually 80% unless its redundant) and you reply to that masterful post I just left you with this?

            “Your mandarin exists in the same fantasy space of your documents I guess. For both you demand a blindly trust.”

            You are a loser for real.

            I’m sure I could have deduced the facts in that dissertation by myself with a HSK 3 level understanding of Chinese, right? NO.

            Even with just an HSK 6 level comprehension, I would have been stymied by several concepts that aren’t covered in the 汉语水平考试 such as specific historical terms on Baidu or the Confucius style 4-character patterns I used in order to get information from additional Tieba boards…

            I think for the sake of your argument, you may want to stay away from my Chinese proficiency level for two reasons: 1) you’d lose that argument as well and 2) I’m not in the habit of completely changing the focus of a topic just to gain ground (unlike some people) and even if I could, I have no reason to.

            You are definitely making the Chinese language (in both written and spoken forms) out to be a lot easier than it is…

            I guess in your world, that ridiculous curb you’ve just imagined allows you to keep thinking you’re a genius, right?

            WRONG.

          • Kai

            @zappa_frank:disqus too.

            I was pretty absent from the comments section over the holidays so this massive flamewar that seems to make up most of the comments associated with this post is a bit of a surprise to me.

            I didn’t read through all of it but I suspect by the halfway point, both of you stopped making new points and started just reiterating accusations and insults at each other. I originally hoped you two were getting tired and this would wrap itself up, but you guys are still going at it today. I’m thus obligated to ask you two to give it a rest. We don’t mind people going in circles for a while, because it happens, but this seems to have been enough of a while, yes?

            I want to believe both of you actually had a sympathetic point each, and that language barrier prevented you guys from effectively being understood by each other. If you guys can refocus on the original points in contention without having ad hominem insults be the bulk of your replies to each other, and genuinely extend a bit of benefit of the doubt to each other earnestly trying to understand each others’ points, please continue. Otherwise, maybe both of you can just chalk it up to a misunderstanding?

            As alluded to in previous announcements, we’re going to have to start moderating the comments section more strictly. Disagreements, arguments, and debates are cool, but we really gotta up the “civility” quotient. Thanks for your understanding.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Don’t worry, he gave up already.

          • Zappa Frank

            Ok, iive already proved my point the first day, but it was too funny, “you don’t know who I’m ” alpha male” “hidden documents on my desk that I cannot show” “hsk level 6 that but I cannot write anything in Chinese except childish sentences” and so on… I couldn’t help myself. However the fun has to end.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Just to let you know… as an alpha male… I didn’t like the tone of this last post you wrote.

            It’s too friendly and familiar. I don’t know you, and frankly don’t care for you at all. You were supposed to be driving your points home and proving me wrong, not working together for a “unified take” on the issue. The issue is crystal clear and there’s nothing to work through. This statement smells of weakness and I urge you to stray away from this tactic. Be stronger. You were super serious and confident about your points and I got you right where I want you… and you extend a hand?

            Stop being weak. You just pulled an omega move.

            I expect a response to all three of my posts.

          • Zappa Frank

            look, again you don’t understand that I don’t care at all what you like. But seems you are not aware even of the basic of the discussion. When you write something and want to make a point you have to present proofs. Do you understand that? is the very basic, like even dr sun told you. is this clear? You said in Africa slavery was this and that? ok…evidences! are on your desk right? come on… is that hard to show us? else you expect we believe you just blindly?
            I expect the evidences.. it’s the 100458th is ask for that, if you have will take nothing to post it right?
            please stop with the alpha rhetoric, now is clear enough that you are a wannabe alpha, sorry, you are not, and more you write about it more you make it clear. but I would appreciate

          • mistertibbs4u

            “look, again you don’t understand that I don’t care at all what you like. But seems you are not aware even of the basic of the discussion. When you write something and want to make a point you have to present proofs. Do you understand that? is the very basic, like even dr sun told you. is this clear? You said in Africa slavery was this and that? ok…evidences! are on your desk right? come on… is that hard to show us? else you expect we believe you just blindly?”

            The point is you don’t care at all for the truth OR facts.

            The “basic of the conversation” was and always has been you insinuating that African slavery was the same as modern day slavery or even 15th century chattel slavery. You see how clever I was to catch that? All you said was “Africans selling Africans” but it was the WAY you said it, and sure enough you replied with a comment about an Muslim majority country in North Africa and I knew I was correct.

            The ridiculous part is you reposted some of my quotes (not the ones with the author’s name and page reference, I noticed) and you’re still asking me WHERE they are. Do you know how ignorant that seems? How dumb you’d have to be in order to ask someone where something is when you’ve already reposted it?

            That’s why I have no respect for you, because all you’re doing at this point is pretending to be relevant. My conversation continues, refuting nonsense and adding additional details.

            All you seem to be doing is regurgitating the same crap in the same exact order and it’s circular and weak.

            If you really want to spar, get back to your original point, your reply (where you mistakenly revealed your insinuation in a clearer way), you ridiculous insistence that African slavery was always chattel slavery (which is where you realized you didn’t have a leg to stand on and started to try to make the argument solely about your first statement… THAT’S when you lost)… and now here we are…

            Argument still as weak as ever… and nothing to show for it.

          • Zappa Frank

            Yeah ok all good, but the documents?

          • mistertibbs4u

            Still focused on the documents, huh?

            You want to know the funny part? I’M the one studying pre-colonial African slavery and HALF of your documents ARE my documents.

            The difference? You haven’t READ them! And if you did? You’d see that you were WRONG.

            I swear to GOD, if you go back and read your documents we can do this ALL OVER AGAIN and have a real challenge. Not just you pretending to save face.

            Please. Because now you deserve the public humiliation. Not just the toying that has taken place thus far.

          • Zappa Frank

            Public humiliation? Where is the public? Don’t worry, no one is seeing your humiliation.
            About the docuemnts again, on your desk, I guess next to your hsk6 certificate, the alpha male certifcate released from a zoo and the all the various stuff you talked so far.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Public humiliation? Where is the public? Don’t worry, no one is seeing your humiliation. ”

            First, this is your humiliation, not mine.

            Second, you do realize that “public” means not private, right? As in “open” or “shared” space? Is this your personal blog, or is this open to the “public”?

            You don’t have to have a million spectators in order to have a “public” conversation. If you and I were in an empty shopping mall and no one could hear us, we’d still be having a “public conversation”.

            So whether or not people are reading this ass whipping you are receiving right now is not really relevant to the term. This is still indeed, for all intents and purposes a “public humiliation”.

            “About the docuemnts again, on your desk, I guess next to your hsk6 certificate, the alpha male certifcate released from a zoo and the all the various stuff you talked so far.”

            Why would I keep an HSK certificate on my desk? Not that it’s unimportant, but the amount of relationship I’ve accumulated, the money I’ve made and the alpha male status that I’ve emulated from the United States to China (all while being an African-American, in a somewhat passive aggressive environment) is what I would place on my front desk, if anything. That’s my badge of pride and honor. Not a piece of paper that I strictly show to domestic Chinese clients in order to win their cooperation.

            Rookie.

            What is it with you and remedial understanding of what an alpha male is? Did you learn in school that alpha male equals aggression? Gorilla gorilla, wolf wolf? I’m sorry this isn’t the 80s where jocks get the girls because their aggressive (although I’ve enjoyed that aspect as well back in the States), this is another country, with different rules and paths to success… and I can tell you haven’t figured out yet.

            I see people like you all the time… do you and “live and let live” and all that crap, but if you want to master yourself and this environment of China, you have to do it with a mixture of mental aggression as well as humility and you don’t seem to have either.

            You’re just plain vanilla with no redeeming qualities or personality traits. This is why you are where you are. You thought alpha male was some sort of monkeyish characteristic that you probably learned from movies made in my state of birth (California) but don’t you know “Hollywood” is code word for “magic wand”, a wooden stick that comes from the tree that produces holly berries, which induce hallucinations, bro? Stop believing your own bull and eventually you’ll prosper.

            Eventually.

            Like Flavor Flav said… “don’t believe the hype”!

            That “various stuff” is called knowledge and prepared information.

            Something which is obviously foreign to you.

            Get a clue!

          • mistertibbs4u

            “please stop with the alpha rhetoric, now is clear enough that you are a wannabe alpha, sorry, you are not, and more you write about it more you make it clear. but I would appreciate a bit of “do you know who are you talking to?!”…so please, next reply I expect it”

            You’re not Iggy Azalea, stop copying my style. How are you going to tell me you expect ANYTHING in your next reply when you haven’t even had a conversation about the papers you referenced?

            You’re silly, dude… none of your argument is holding up… nothing that you’re saying is going past simply copying what I say, how I say it and trying to use it against me.

            Are you serious?

            You embody pathetic on a whole other level…

          • Zappa Frank

            You don’t understand that actually I was mockingly your style, not coping. Hahah….do you think someone would ever copy you? Anyway I find amusing that under request you came back with the “do you know who are you talking with”…good doggy, here a cookie.
            Notable that you reply two times to my posts….it evidence your mental confusion. Let me teach you…there is a function called edit, use it

          • mistertibbs4u

            “You don’t understand that actually I was mockingly your style, not coping. Hahah….do you think someone would ever copy you? Anyway I find amusing that under request you came back with the “do you know who are you talking with”…good doggy, here a cookie.”

            No, you weren’t… I know the difference between Western, European, Eastern European and Asian sarcasm dude… I wasn’t born yesterday.

            Expecting for your comments and phrases to seep through the cracks because I may be uninformed you should already know is a bad bet at this point.

            Try again.

            “Notable that you reply two times to my posts….it evidence your mental confusion. Let me teach you…there is a function called edit, use it”

            Dude, have you ever heard of a clipboard? All of our comments are on reference. I’m not confused about anything. Like I said… reread ALL of those documents you posted FOR REAL this time… you and Sun thought that I was 1) unfamiliar with those and 2) wouldn’t have called you on your bluff

            BRO! I’ve been searching for six months! You think I haven’t already read these documents? If I’m going to post research of my own, do you think I could get by without doing so?

            You’re a JOKE, man…

            I’ll learn from an infant and a homeless man before I learn from you… that much you’ve proven to be true thus far…

            Like I said… you are NOT done with this conversation… at ALL.

          • Zappa Frank

            This is my last post for this topic of baijiu.

          • mistertibbs4u

            And THIS is what happens to you (and people like you) when you come to China.

            You’ve had an insurmountable amount of gas blown up your keister and you believed it all…

            The Chinese are typically generous with compliments and just because you heard 老外你怎么厉害哦!doesn’t mean you are. Just because someone said 你好帅哦! doesn’t mean you are, dude…

            You are a loser. Plain and simple… and being a loser does NOT mean being someone who doesn’t speak Chinese, or being an English teacher, or always going to the bar, because as a business person who spends most of his time in the office or at other people’s offices, I find spending time with the English teacher guys and the clubbers to be much more satisfying than hanging out with the over-50 corporate types.

            It’s your ATTITUDE. You need a detox from this country. You sound entitled and UNTESTED. I can tell that you haven’t had many physical fights or near-death experiences or anything close to actual challenges because the humility generated from said experience hasn’t permeated throughout ANY of your conversation, outlook or personality.

            I can ALSO tell that you have close to NO personal contact with black people, because you’ve got some closeted reservations and outdated ideas, if I’ve ever heard them. The only people who have an excuse for this and a reason to act retarded when they see me or Chinese, and soon that won’t be an excuse either.

            I know you would like to believe that cool guys don’t “get it” or are all “dumb” or even African-American stereotypes, but if anyone else has, I’m your proof that you can get the girls, make money, be intelligent, humble, friendly and and a stand-up guy.

            You know…. AN ALPHA MALE.

            You have a lot to learn, bro… so until next time… (unless you want to start it up again)

            NEXT!

          • Dr Sun

            ” I’ve been here for more than three years, far from a newbie”
            ROFL..3 years my ass, a post count of 272 you’ve been here 2 or so weeks boy (or are you a recycled troll).

            “this entire argument is apart of a historical project I’m currently working on right now… that means that these papers I’m referring to are on my desk RIGHT NOW.”

            Then I suggest you do something new and novel for you, like actually reading them…You have a lot to learn, you maybe should start by reading the material that I posted/ that is on your desk, instead of just posting the titles of papers you have not read.
            btw im not British, you’re not really getting anything right on here are you, your just a sad man bro.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “ROFL..3 years my ass, a post count of 272 you’ve been here 2 or so weeks boy (or are you a recycled troll). ”

            You clearly are as much of an idiot as Frank. I already stated two you TWICE that I have never posted on this board, that I have been visiting this website since its creation and being a newbie constitutes being an inexperienced, not a lack of participation.

            You understand what that means, right? My respect for you (and yes it does matter, whether you like it or not) just dropped several points.

            “you have a lot to learn, you maybe should start by reading the material that I posted/ that is on your desk, instead of just posting the titles of papers you have not read.”

            If you are an intelligent person, you would at least surmise that if I’m actually telling the truth about the papers that are on my desk, and if I’m telling the truth about the time I have been studying said topic, that I obviously have already read these papers and are now beyond papers but reading paperback books ordered from Amazon in the states and dowloaded electronic versions or others that are harder to get.

            With that said, are we to believe that a person like you (meaning, someone who hasn’t actively been involved in the topic of slavery) have already read or at the very least skimmed the multiple papers you are posting about?

            Think about it… the answer is no. I’m already in the zone and have been for the past six months, that’s why you won’t see me post about things of which I’m not familiar… that’s called taking the intelligent approach.

            However, when the topic of slavery came up… guess who rose to the occasion and shot your friend down a couple of notches.

            That would be me. Research already in hand before he even knew what hit ’em…

            “btw im not British, you’re not really getting anything right on here are you, your just a sad man bro.”

            Dude, it’s BEYOND OBVIOUS that you are not British. If you were, you wouldn’t be talking to me right now…

            Based on your opportunistic and “safe” jabs at me, I’m willing to bet you’re either South East Asian with a British English training or either Middle Eastern or Filipino. Although this (unlike slavery) I don’t know much about and could be wrong.

            But no way you’re black or white… too much self-identity in the issue both ways to have such a “stationary” take on the entire topic. I doubt you’re of Northern Chinese or native stock… a lack of interest in the entire topic would keep Korean, Northern Chinese or Japanese posters from even entertaining the topic.

            You “came to the rescue” as they say which is endemic of someone raised in an area that was colonized by the British or at least having a partial upbringing in the UK/ Britain as an ethnic minority of Asian descent.

            Like I said… I do my research.

          • Dr Sun

            LOL,I’ll let you know if you ever get anything right

          • mistertibbs4u

            Yeah, you do that…

          • Zappa Frank

            Nonsense you claim to be around 25 but somehow you are here from longer than most…. Another bullshit
            Please write to me not to dr sun about my stuff.
            I see you got the gamma male finally…. I have another question unrelated to the precedent that still waist an answer and is “don’t you feel any sense of embarssment calling yourself an alpha male?” Because you know right that the impression on other people after such kind of claim is that you are a super idiot right?
            Now sleep a bit since you remained awake the whole night to show your “stamina” in this childish quarrel, because for your value of black American is something to be proud. Back again with many alpha male and next, so that no one will ever doubt anymore about your idiocy

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Nonsense you claim to be around 25 but somehow you are here from longer than most…. ”

            Yet another example of you not paying attention… it’s sort of becoming your calling card… I said that you were the one I couldn’t believe was over 25. You just can’t seem to paraphrase ANYTHING…

            “Please write to me not to dr sun about my stuff.”

            When a lapdog tends to his master, he gets the swat as well… don’t you worry about him… I have more than enough time and energy for the both of you.

            “I see you got the gamma male finally…”

            You mean since primary school, right? I swear you don’t read ANYTHING. Even though your posts are nonsense, I still have decency to READ THROUGH it…

            “Because you know right that the impression on other people after such kind of claim is that you are a super idiot right?”

            I’m sorry… I don’t come from a hierarchal or feudal society where order and rank get in the way of progression… so I’m not affected by that… I know this is your tactic for dealing with other individuals, but that also does not work on me.

            “Now sleep a bit since you remained awake the whole night to show your “stamina” in this childish quarrel, because for your value of black American is something to be proud.”

            What are you talking about? I’ve gone to sleep and already been to the office… did you NOT get any sleep? I’m good, my friend… multitasking is not an issue for me…

            “Back again with many alpha male and next, so that no one will ever doubt anymore about your idiocy”

            Yep, you’re almost done… I can FEEL it…

          • Zappa Frank

            You’ve gone to sleep? Hahah, pathetic. We can see you post time…since you are in China the hour is the same. I can see you remained till late to post and wake up early to do it again. Shows again you are idiot you know?
            About the part you did not understand, I try again…..don’t you feel pathetic to claim to be an alpha male? To refer to an unexistsnt public when you write things like “people can see… We know…” And so on? You know this is a sign of insecurity? When you claim “you don’t know who are you talking to” you know right that’s make you seems even more idiot?
            Is clear?

          • mistertibbs4u

            “You’ve gone to sleep? Hahah, pathetic. We can see you post time…since you are in China the hour is the same. I can see you remained till late to post and wake up early to do it again. ”

            No, it shows that my industry is Internet Technology and I’m more inclined to check my posts than you are.

            Had I not responded, you would have been claiming that I’m afraid to respond to you… you’re so infantile it’s ridiculous…

            “don’t you feel pathetic to claim to be an alpha male? To refer to an unexistsnt public when you write things like “people can see… We know…” And so on?”

            No… actually… I feel pretty great and the public does see… clearly you think this must be some form of private blog that only hipsters and foreigners and China check, right?

            Get real, dude…

            “you know right that’s make you seems even more idiot?”

            No, it makes me seem like the one with an actual point. I know what it makes you seem like though….

          • Zappa Frank

            Haha you are amazing, you even believe you have a public that read this shit we write and that saying “I’m an alpha male, you don’t know who are you talking to, next, bla bla bla” makes you seem great.

            You don’t have to be afraid to seem weak, you are weak. And you why? You look for approvation of your imaginary public, that is the essence of weakness, you need confirm from other people, to comfort you. Poor guy, did you father beat you? Your mother then? Why so many troubles in ur life

            Sure you are the most pathetic human being ever met here on cs.

          • mistertibbs4u

            This website as an Alexa rating of less than 20,000. If you think no one reads these posts then you are an idiot.

            Why do you think they’re stepping up the donation requests, Sherlock?

            “Poor guy, did you father beat you? Your mother then? Why so many troubles in ur life

            Sure you are the most pathetic human being ever met here on cs.”

            Really? You wanna pull at THAT thread?

            I had a GREAT childhood, although I’m willing to bet that you didn’t so much, and while we’re on the topic, things you choose to focus on seem to be the very things you lack as a person… not because I said so, but because that’s the way things are manifesting themselves…

          • Zappa Frank

            I doubt you had a great childhood, for sure not great as mine. Else you wouldn’t compalin about the white supremacy and other things that are inversely proportionate to your self confidence.
            I don’t. Think no one read our post, because reading posts and posts of childish quarrels makes the people feel douchechills. Sure I hope for you no one would read the post where you declare yourself alpha male, you don’t know who I am, next and so on…that would be really embarssing, even more not realizing how stupi you seem with such kinds of claims.

          • mistertibbs4u

            So what you’re really saying is either you have a great life OR acknowledge white supremacy…

            Please, you’re silly… no self-respecting human being would accept such a ridiculous statement. How you expect to be taken seriously with such a silly out look is beyond me.

            Again… douchechills… not catching on.

            If you think that a website with an Alexa rating of less than 50,000 much less 20,000 isn’t receiving a large amount of hits on this thread with the recent comments being posted to the side of the front page, then you don’t know anything about technology or the way websites operate.

            From the beginning, you’ve been called on and I will continue to call you on your nonsense.

            You’re not allowed to flip or change sides.

            The last time I got into with you, I let you slide. Not this time.

          • Zappa Frank

            No, exactly, no one will ever read this shit. And the proof again is that after one day no one cared and even less will with the pass of time since topics are changing and the baijiu is irrelevant.
            For the first part i know is hard for you, but the white supremacy is just a measure of your insecurity.
            Douchechills is what people that you hope will read this shit will have reading your alpha male, you don’t know who I’m stuff. Please write it again ahahah, what was. “Do you know who are you talking with!!!!!!” Hahahahah, like you are the president of US or the pope…. So pathetic..

          • mistertibbs4u

            No, there are people who are reading this. If you’re too dumb to comprehend that, it’s not really my problem…

            Again, douchechills… not catching on.

            The maniacal laughing though? Not catching on either…

          • Dr Sun

            “whites hope to absolve themselves of the HORRORS of the slavery that ENSUED”
            you mean as compared to the horrors of being sacrificed (killed) in some religious ceremony or having your genitalia removed ?

          • mistertibbs4u

            EXACTLY.

            I know you mean to make a point, but having your genitalia removed forcibly with the most excruciating pain possible PALES in comparison to a GENOCIDE of an entire group of people… you DO realize that if one is forced to compare the two using YOUR logic that genital mutilation would be the LESSER of the two, RIGHT?

            As opposed to… you know… dying… and not knowing your language and being forced to work for free…

            You do know that… right?

          • Dr Sun

            “using YOUR logic that genital mutilation would be the LESSER of the two, RIGHT?”

            Actually I think that’s what you are implying.

            BTW, if some cut you junk off using the argument it could be worse, you would rethink your post.

            Genocide ??? not sure where you snatching this from and don’t see its relevance in regard to slavery, having a million or more dead slaves is of no use to a slaver or the slave owners. And I certainly don’t appreciate your adolescent attempts at deflection.
            But I guess you will next be saying that the real genocides in Africa, ie.. Rwanda,CAD,Nigeria, Somalia..etc..etc are all being carried out by the evil white man.
            I sincerely believe that if you ever really look into this or go and live in Africa, the reality might hit you like a freight train.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Actually I think that’s what you are implying.”

            No, that’s what you would be implying. I would be agreeing.

            The reality is you have no idea about my knowledge of Africa and I’m under keen suspicion that yours purely revolves around what you can look up or verify as opposed to actually “knowing” Africa.

            “But I guess you will next be saying that the real genocides in Africa, ie.. Rwanda,CAD,Nigeria, Somalia..etc..etc are all being carried out by the evil white man.”

            And you’d be wrong… so…. NEXT?

            “I sincerely believe that if you ever really look into this or go and live in Africa, the reality might hit you like a freight train.”

            You have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Dr Sun

            “You have no idea what you’re talking about.”

            talking to yourself into that mirror again are you ?

          • mistertibbs4u

            “African modes of indigenous slavery were very different from slavery as known in North America, the West Indies, or Europe (including ancient Greece and Rome). Perbi (2001:12) records how 19th century European observers expressed surprise at the humane treatment of indigenous African slaves. The typical situation was that slaves were integrated, in various ways, into the extended family of their owners by adoption or marriage They usually had the right to be fed and clothed, to marry in legal ceremonies, to earn an independent income, to work a plot of land for own consumption, to hold and inherit property, and to have legal protection.

            Slave owners had no absolute power over their slaves and were not allowed to kill them at their discretion – only the king or chief could impose a death penalty on both free and enslaved persons. In cases of maltreatment, owners could be punished in accordance with local legal custom (e.g. fined, as in the Asante state). There are only five records of revolts of indigenous slaves in Africa (Perbi, 2004). Among most of the African states and societies there were also avenues for upward social and political mobility for slaves (Miers and Koptykoff, 1977:134-170). For instance, in the Hausa-Fulani Emirates, slaves could be appointed village heads. Slaves among the Mende of Sierra Leone could obtain the political positions of chiefs. Asante slaves were granted occupation of stools, the traditional symbols of authority (Perbi, 2001:11). And indigenous slaves, unlike export slaves, did not reproduce as slaves but often married free persons and had children who were free people: ‘… children born into slavery could expect to grow up as members of their master’s lineage’ (Lovejoy, 1983:127).”

            House of cards, indeed…

            In the future, do our own research.

          • Dr Sun

            I do , but clearly you dont.

            Persee (1963) Journal de la Société des Africanistes seems to totally and completely refute you in his thesis on the Hausa-Fulani emirates ” In all the Emirates, the masses were subjected to unsavory conditions, and the
            slaves were perhaps the most affected. They were used as currency and as carriers. When, for instance, an Hausa ‘ elite ‘ was about to travel to a distant place, he usually took with him a number of slaves to last the whole
            period. After traveling about a hundred miles he sold one slave, and with the income continued the journey. He so carefully planned it that by the time he returned home all the marketable slaves would have been sold.The story of their suffering is a saga of man’s inhumanity to man”.

            Now lets look at your fantasy land of fluffy and harmonious African indigenous slavery in your unnamed Acient civilizations, by looking at real research..

            Indigenous slaves in Africa were obtained by means of warfare, as a result of criminal penalties, by pawning (where debtors unable to repay their dues went into
            slavery, or sent dependents into slavery), by raiding and kidnapping, and as tribute paid by conquered nations (Klein 1998; 1978; Austin 2005; Goody 1980; Ayittey,
            2006).

            The fundamental function of slavery was to ‘deny outsiders the rights and privileges of a particular society so that they could be exploited for economic, political and or social purposes. Usually, outsiders were perceived as ethnically different; absence of kinship was a particularly common distinction of slaves’ (Lovejoy, 1983:2).

            Indigenous slavery was an ingrained feature of most African societies in recorded history (Thornton 1998; Klein 1998; Austin 2007, Goody 1980, Cooper 1979) . For example Perbi (2004), describing indigenous slavery in Ghana, takes the view that indigenous slavery predated the Atlantic slave trade, coexisted with it from
            the sixteenth to the nineteenth centuries and survived it through the early twentieth century (also Miescher, 2004:157).

            Miers and Kopytoff (1977) view indigenous slavery in Africa as defined more in terms of ‘those without kin’, and ‘natal alienation’. With this framework comes a relative benign view on slaves’ social status and living conditions.

            Hopkins (1973), building on Nieboer (1900) and Domar (1970), argues that indigenous slavery was a more overt economic response to scarcity of labour especially in West Africa, where under conditions of simple agricultural technologies, ‘the costs of acquiring and maintaining slaves were less than the costs of hiring labour’ (Hopkins, 1973:25).

            This assumes the treatment of slaves as a commodity, since the slave was chattel. It also takes a dimmer view of slaves’ living conditions. Klein (1978:601) suggests (based on fieldwork in Senegal) that this approach might be most appropriate in high-density slavery systems. Austin (2005: 160; 170) in the same vein suggests that nineteenth century Asante empire, an intensive user of slave labour, relied so heavily on slavery because substitution by wage labour was not economically viable.

            Thornton (1998:74) in addition argues that slavery was prevalent in Africa because ‘slaves were the only form of private, revenue producing property recognized
            in African law’, and thus a means to obtain and maintain private wealth. Klein (1998: 15) links kinlessness and natal alienation (in the functionalist approach) and slaves as chattel or property (in economic rationalism): when slaves were thought of as chattel, alienation of slaves was easier. At the same time, the alienation of slaves strengthened the chattel relationship and thus the ability to exploit slaves.

            I think the point is made, that your understanding in regard to Africa is non and that your “Rose glasses” view is unsustainable.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Really? The one guy?

            So where are your dates for this “one guy”? Who’s Googling now?

            There are of course many mentions of nations in Africa who did not abide to the traditional African system of slavery and even Ghana later in time used slavery as their main industry for capital… no one is refuting that it didn’t exist…

            But by searching so HARD for a systematic iteration for chattel slavery in pre-colonial Africa (which didn’t exist), you can now deduce that the systematic dehumanization that occurred with white American slavery later on took horrid to new levels that even this Hausa ‘elite’ couldn’t imagine.

            Japan -> China
            American -> slaves

            Don’t play me dude… like I said… don’t back a dog that doesn’t have any teeth… or like Wesley Snipe said…

            “Always bet on black”

            Did you like what I did there?

            I did.

          • Dr Sun

            Can you read, or should I create a pop up book with colouring sections for you ?

          • mistertibbs4u

            While intended to be an insult… a pop up book with colouring sections would be slightly more objective than straight text… you do realize that, right?

            If you’re gonna take jabs, take authoritative sensible ones.

          • Dr Sun

            Sorry but I’m not a kindergarten or elementary school teacher, but there quite a number of of them here, some very good ones I believe.
            I’m sure one of them could could translated the adult text of my posts into a simple kindergarten pop up book format for you or even into a song like “Head and shoulders, knees and toes” so you can understand.

          • mistertibbs4u

            You’re not good at dry humor… in English anyway…

            Coincidentally, when I was in private kindergarten in San Francisco, California in the 80s…

            where were you? your family? your parents station in life? Care to divulge?

            I’d just like to keep this “education” thing in perspective, if you know what I’m saying.

            I’m sure if you told the truth, we’d all get a little more insight to just how “educated” you are.

          • Dr Sun

            1980, lets see my parents were in the UK. Father a manager in a optics company, mother a secretary at a local newspaper ,I was in Rhodesia (16th Ind Para pathfinders), my brother and his wife were in AUS, my sister and her SA hubby were were in Uganda. None of us worked for British Rail, so no station in life.
            It would appear “uncle” that your still a very young man.
            So would you care to share more, where were your bothers, sisters and parents in 1980, their/your station in life , how long did you live in Africa now,if so where, have you ever lived in Africa ?
            And no, sorry but its true i’m not a kindergarten teacher, what I do has been posted in many threads on here already, so there’s no need for me to repeat it (my posting history is not locked as private), but your a newbie and cloaked, a total unknown, hiding, so what do you do for work, you married, kids, which university did you get your BA/BSC from, your post grad degrees masters, Phd, dates care to share ?

          • biggj

            Dr.Evils childhood.

            The details of my life are quite inconsequential My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a 15-year-old French prostitute named Chloé with webbed feet. My father would womanize; he would drink; he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes, he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of generalmalaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament … My childhood was typical: summers in Rangoon … luge lessons … In the spring, we’d make meat helmets … When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds — pretty standard, really. At the age of 12, I received my first scribe. At the age of 14, a Zoroastrian named Vilmer ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum — it’s breathtaking … I suggest you try it. And I turned out just fine.

          • Dr Sun

            What a dick head you are, you are a idiot, thank you for confirming it to the whole forum.

          • biggj

            I’m not talking about you. Just a miss understanding. This a quote from Dr. Evil from Austin Powers. I should have mentioned that. No need for name calling :)

          • mistertibbs4u

            1980s, my mother a staunch Republican, already moving from the US Army to a district manager (later regional manager) of the United States Social Security Administration (overseeing eligibility and eventual payment of retired veterans from the US military budget) in the San Francisco bay area. My father, an equally intense Democrat was already a Safety specialist in charge of overseeing maintenance and repair on F-14 Tomcats and F-16 Falcons, eventually started his own private accounting firm, still operating as of now.

            In the 80s, older sisters already moving back to my father’s hometown with families of their own. Older brother working in imports from Taiwan in Houston, Texas.

            Me? Still in private elementary school, on to public middle school (parents severely disappointed), back to private high school when I started my first web design company, working on contracts for government websites and Access databases, graduated from high school, went to San Francisco State University for 3.5 years during the “Internet boom” and was finally successfully head hunted before graduation (against the behest of my more conservative parents) by a 2-year contract and CRAZY PAY (those were the days).

            Reluctantly made the move to China after giving up a successful job in the Bay Area at the request of a previous co-worker from a past start-up company only after he secured VC funds, finished my required contracts, went into business on my own and have been here ever since…

            Phd, never that…

          • Amused

            Wow Dr. Sun… I may not agree with you on everything you post here but I have to hand it to you bro, that’s some bitching fact collection skill you’ve got there :)

          • Dr Sun

            just a point of information and a question.
            Slaves were being bought and sold in Africa during the Roman times (or are you considering this “colonial times”) . As so, just how far back in time are you going when referring to these “bartering societies” ?

          • mistertibbs4u

            You do realize that Ancient African civilization existed before the Roman times and therefore when I say pre-colonial I mean pre-colonial, especially before the Roman times.

            And by the way, with all of the idiotic things this guy has stated… you somehow decided to reply to MY comments?

            Suspect…

          • Zappa Frank

            Hahahahahaha…. Show us something I beg you, please tell me we don’t have to believe to the gamma male. Show us some documents that prove your statements about the African ancient civilization

          • mistertibbs4u

            Take your lazy ass to Wikipedia! Burden of proof is not on me… I’m the one that’s already studied slavery of Africa. That means that I have knowledge on the subject.

            When you refute facts of which you have never thought about or studied, the burden of proof is up to you! You are sincerely useless…

            I thought I already told you… I don’t fall for the lazy tactics… I’ve said everything that I had to say… the facts have been laid on the table… you can’t disprove my facts because they’re true…

            Don’t worry… I’ll wait… haha

          • Zappa Frank

            Sorry dude, if you rise an argument the proof is on you.. I’ve already read Wikipedia and. Doesn’t match with what you said, unless you want to do a cherry pick. I hope you have something better.
            Seems you have no idea about arguments.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Now I KNOW you’re lying… the only cherry picking available is in finding incidents in which slaves were treated horribly before European contact.

            That’s what happens when you’re on your last legs!

          • Zappa Frank

            I still wait you proofs if you have any idea of them…I’ve read Wikipedia and it doesn’t say what you say, that’s all. Besides the point once again is, why did Africans sell slavez to Europeans? can you reply this?

            After all this fun let’s take back my first post

            Black were enslaved and sold by other blacks to Europeans.

            That for you, with a semantic Pindaric flight it becomes after all the bullshtting, “blacks captured people and exchange them for food with Europeans”. Yes that’s completely different

          • mistertibbs4u

            Are you full on retarded, or do you just have a bad case of ADD?

            How are you not understanding that my original retort to your retard is sufficient?

            I already told you that the concept of slavery between Africans and Europeans were COMPLETELY different and they had NO idea that Europeans would be so inhumane and brutal and disgusting?

            How do you not understand the concept of social vs. financial systems?

            This is your biggest disconnect from the conversation at hand.

            Catch up

          • Zappa Frank

            That is the part that makes you ilarious. In your enlightened opinion of a gamma male, you don’t know who I am and so on..Africans sold slaves for hundreds years and never figured out what was going on…… Hahahaha….but really you can write down all this without a laugh? This is a pearl! Can I copy it and use it as sign? Do I have your authorization?

            I miss your Next, alpha male and u don’t know who I’m

          • mistertibbs4u

            Typical white male response…

            First your cocky… then you get knocked down a few levels… next, you’re a victim…

            then you’re against the ropes… and then you focus on whatever skill set your opponent is KILLING you with in order to maintain your silly stance…

            Then you finally find a semantic (which still isn’t working for you) to hold on to, firmer than a mechanical bull while you slowly gain your composure back… and then finally, you think you’re back on top….

            Until an alpha male comes and knocks you down again a few notches…

            You’re jumping around and flip flopping on your REAL issue.

            We all know your REAL issue was that Africans sold Africans until slavery in the concept of western slavery, which is NOT true… the point is that this type of slavery was introduced on a massive scale BY Europeans… which IS true…

            THEN you try to connect the Africans that made money from the slave trade to the original intent… but YOU CAN’T DO THAT… because you leave out the most important part… the friggin Transatlantic slave trade, which they were removed from…

            OBVIOUSLY they eventually understood what was going on, on a grand scale much later…

            But if you think your attempt to connect the eventual global trade of Africans with the original intent of the Africans who assisted the MASTER MINDS of the ENTIRE INDUSTRY as somehow “starting” or even “initiating” the slave trade… well, then you’re a revisionist whose annoyance with hearing the truth has gotten the best of him…

            The problem with your paraphrasing is that you tend to add some ridiculous fact to what someone else said and call that the truth. Who said that Africans weren’t aware the ENTIRE TIME slavery was going on? If you want to use a horrible paraphrase for your signature… then you’ve clearly got a lot more going on than we all could have imagined…

            Ready for it?

            …..

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            Again the alpha retarder semantic…you slept two hours to back with this shit? Again mr omega male… Why did Africans sell slaves? That was on the first post I wrote an you in your inettitude decided to reply, this is the point, not your fantasy about the merry life in the you don’t know what ancient African culture… Waiting your reply… You want make Africans pass for idiots that did not anything, that did not get anything from the trade while kingdoms in Africa lived by the trade and died in consequence of the end of the trade. I know in your pathetic vision you look for a”it’s all whitesfault”. Sorry inferior gamma male, paria, the world doesn’t work in black-white terms,

          • Zappa Frank

            You you are entertaining, with your alpha male thing that anyone else would feels too embarrassed even to think about it, the Next!, the old story of poor Africans that were so stupids to have no idea about what was going to happen to slaves, and your patetic fantasies about the African ancient civilization that you don’t know… You’ve spread douchechills all over China smack. Congratulation you are this new year’s village idiot!

          • mistertibbs4u

            Yeah, we won’t talk about what you spread all over ChinaSmack, haha…

            Again, please talk more about my alpha male and next, because they will be used against you even more… I’m quite familiar with your need to attack whatever you don’t feel comfortable with.

            “the old story of poor Africans that were so stupids to have no idea about what was going to happen to slaves”

            This is the dumbest thing I’ve heard from you this morning… of course Africans eventually knew what was really going on during the slave trade… the same way that Native Americans eventually knew what was on their blankets… or the way that Jews eventually knew that it wouldn’t stop with yellow stars…

            The point is that evil is in the business of being evil… and as I said before… China is your last stand, dude… after this… there ARE no other people on Earth to fool…

            What’s going to happen then?

          • Zappa Frank

            I don’t need to persuade anyone, like on the other side you seem want to do, always referring to an unexistsnt public that should read what you write., this once more confirm your insecurity, that match with your claim to be an alpha male and the “you don’t know who I’m”…all proofs of an extremely insecure guy, because an alpha male would not need to write he is an alpha male and look for approvation of a public.
            I wrote facts, and your examples shows once more that you understand but dishonestly try to hide….examples like the Jews evidence this, because, you know, Jews did not sell other Jews to nazists, like Africans did, and not for ten years, for hundreds years…
            You already show you are unable to discuss, shifting points from time to time, looking for fights when cornered, self claiming victories, presenting absurd theories without any evidences.
            The problem is that you live in a monochromic world black and white, bad and good, whites bad blacks good. Nothing like that ever existed. If you want to blame some whites you may blame also your ancestors since like many black Americans you may have a white dude along your father line, blame home for the slavery but mind that without you wouldn’t exist.

          • mistertibbs4u

            You’re right… you don’t need to persuade anyone… your posts are doing a good job of that without your additional assistance… continue please!

            Boy, please… you didn’t write any facts… you wrote anecdotes, racial jabs and exaggerated paraphrasing!

            You’re real insistent that you wrote facts, hmm? Good luck with that… meanwhile, your analogy regarding Jews is horrible… Nazis didn’t partake in slavery as the Third Reich’s rise clearly occurred after the Industrial revolution (and the Civil War and the abolishment of institutionalized European chattel slavery, for that matter).

            “You already show you are unable to discuss, shifting points from time to time, looking for fights when cornered, self claiming victories, presenting absurd theories without any evidences.”

            Haha… you just described yourself! Are you serious? You haven’t written any facts whatsoever, nor have you sited anything relevant… the only person who sited anything besides myself in this conversation was Sun who had to come to your rescue… although I think the rescue mission’s been aborted…

            I haven’t been cornered since we started this conversation. “Man in the mirror”.

            “The problem is that you live in a monochromic world black and white, bad and good, whites bad blacks good.”

            No, I believe that was my complaint about you. Slavery was either horrible on all accounts by non-Europeans as well… OR slavery was utopia…

            I’m not sure you mean monochromatic, unless you’re trying to say “black OR white”, “bad OR good”, which would actually be a perfect description for you.

            My world is California, the most ethnically integrated community in the WORLD (integrated is different from diverse, look it up… I know you… grasping at straws) and my upbringing has been nothing but a healthy dose of all kinds of cultures.

            You? Based on your conversation? Not so much…

            “whites bad blacks good”… if that’s what you got from our conversation, there’s even LESS hope from you yet.

            “If you want to blame some whites you may blame also your ancestors”

            THIS IS YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL REASON FOR RESPONDING. Unfortunately, you take the plight of white slavery upon your back whenever its mentioned, unlike other white people who clearly realize they had nothing to do with it…

            So this is your mental hang up… Africans had slavery long before Europeans knew what Africa was… and it wasn’t the dehumanizing form of slavery you’d like to generalize across the entire globe. I’ve explained it and now that I understand you clearly do lack mental capacity, I’ll hope for the best and continue to state, so at least when a person is struggling to understand your point, things will at least be made clear by my responses.

            Bottom line… you know you’re wrong… I’ve explained and clearly shown that European chattel slavery is not the social form of slavery that Africans practiced, and instances of non-social slavery are far fewer than the slavery that was.

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            If I did not write facts how come you still have to reply?

            Do you want me to ask my question again?

            Why Africans did sell Africans slaves to Europeans?

            Waiting

            Next

          • mistertibbs4u

            “Why Africans did sell Africans slaves to Europeans?”

            Are we doing this again?

            You never learn:

            “In most African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and were given certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade and Atlantic slave trade began, many of the local slave systems changed and began supplying captives for slave markets outside of Africa.”

            As I said BEFORE… there’s NO WAY that you can equate the traditional African system of slavery with that of the European and Arab chattel slave trade…

            No way… not going to happen…

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            You spknow you still don’t answer the question but back to your fantasy African slavery style? Sorry dude we are talking about that, but about slaves sold to Europeans.
            The point, first post written from me, Africans enslaved and sold others Africans,. Whites bought slaves, didn’t enslaved. Now litte by little you also come here…long drifting but finally you are here.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “You spknow you still don’t answer the question but back to your fantasy African slavery style? ”

            Your failure to acknowledge the already widely-acknowledged fact that traditional African slavery wasn’t chattel slavery makes you seem like an idiot… and you’re backtracking, pretending that your point wasn’t that African slavery was similar.

            You know damn well that your original point wasn’t that Africans sold other Africans and Europeans didn’t. Everyone knows that

            “Now, you still have one problem, the ridicule theory that Africans didn’t know what was going on and believed the slaves they sold were going to be part of Europeans families.”

            This is why I call you an idiot. Families has nothing to do with familial structure… being apart of a familial society is not the same as imagining the slave you’ve helped capture being apart of an ACTUAL family.

            I’m sure they missed the tweet about how bad things were over in the “New World” as very few Africans actually made the voyage back to report.

            Smarten up, dude

          • Zappa Frank

            My original point was my first post you replied to. Can you trace it back or do I have to do it for you? Can you? And please stop pretending there is an “everyone” that read this shit, there is not, the very few that read didn’t seem to agree so much with you…
            The second point again without serious reply. Again, do you believe Africans were all so stupid to do not know what was going to be of the slaves they sold? For hundreds years!?
            That ilarious really

          • mistertibbs4u

            “My original point was my first post you replied to. Can you trace it back or do I have to do it for you? Can you? And please stop pretending there is an “everyone” that read this shit, there is not, the very few that read didn’t seem to agree so much with you…”

            So you want to pretend to be the one that needs to repost our original statements, huh? I’ve reposted our original statements before to no avail… so you doing the same thing I did when you lacked a response now is a little stupid

            “Again, do you believe Africans were all so stupid to do not know what was going to be of the slaves they sold? For hundreds years!? That ilarious really”

            Knowing that slaves are being sent to slavery and understanding the atrocities that would accompany the slavery of a difference ethnicity of people are two different things lame brain…

            Think about it!

          • Zappa Frank

            The answer is yes, you believed they were so stupid, racist! Hundreds years not realizing something under their eyes (gartheing centers and vessels again) you are RACIST!

            The original post was the one where I saidafricans were ensalved and sold by other Africans not enslaved by whites. After one day you come out that is true, still with the risible fable above mentioned.

            About African slavery again, not the topic, no docs from you, but

            “The slaves in Africa, I suppose, are nearly in the proportion of three to one to the freemen. They claim no reward for their services except food and clothing, and are treated with kindness or severity, according to the good or bad disposition of their masters. Custom, however, has established certain rules with regard to the treatment of slaves, which it is thought dishonourable to violate. Thus the domestic slaves, or such as are born in a man’s own house, are treated with more lenity than those which are purchased with money. … But these restrictions on the power of the master extend not to the care of prisoners taken in war, nor to that of slaves purchased with money. All these unfortunate beings are considered as strangers and foreigners, who have no right to the protection of the law, and may be treated with severity, or sold to a stranger, according to the pleasure of their owners.”

          • mistertibbs4u

            Do you know what the word racist means? I don’t mean in that lame modern day white liberal reactionary way, but what it actually means…

            If you ACTUALLY thought the way you did, how could I be racist as an African-American towards an ancient people? Are they somehow here to oppress?

            You’re all over the place…

            That’s EXACTLY the post that I’m referring to. Good boy!

            You haven’t posted any documents, you’ve posted references to documents and you haven’t even READ A SINGLE ONE… and NEITHER HAS HE.

            Which brings you both to a total of…

            zero.

          • Zappa Frank

            By the way…still waiting your evidences about African slavery. I posted something, dr sun posted something, you posted nothing… Waiting. Else are your fantasies.

          • mistertibbs4u

            What are you talking about? If you want my post about African slavery, read my response to his post.

            If you want the same evidence, then read the post where you requested that I keep our conversation out of his conversation.

            You DO remember that, don’t you? You brought it up.

            Don’t play games…

          • Zappa Frank

            Evidences were requested also by dr sun, but in vain.. You still have to post something, like something about the African ancient civilization.

            Edit u know what?

            Boring

            Bye I’m tired to talk with you. Now you can ho on by yourself and your immaginary counter will sign 14737672837 points for you. You can be proud in front of the immaginary public that you are sure is reading you and is agreeing with you…..despite all the evidences, evidences that apparently have a little meaning to u. Yes, it sucks to be u. Good night….you are not funny anymore…no more alpha male, no more you don’t know who I’m …the only reason why I’ve talked with you so far

          • mistertibbs4u

            Are you REALLY tired of talking to me? Or are you tired of looking like an idiot?

            You have no class, no tact and no additional points to make.

            NEXT!

          • mr.wiener

            The case of Dahomey would seem to be an exception.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Next time do your own research, you lazy excuse for a poster:

            “Although various forms of unfree labour were prevalent in Europe throughout its history, historians refer to ‘Chattel Slavery’, in which slaves are commodities to be bought and sold, rather than domestic servants or agricultural workers. Chattel Slavery is the characteristic form of slavery in the modern world, and this chronology is concerned primarily with this form.”

            AS I SAID BEFORE… the type of slavery that existed in Africa AND Europe was NOT the same as White American slavery and NEVER WILL BE.

            As I said to your friend who also has no idea:

            “African modes of indigenous slavery were very different from slavery as known in North America, the West Indies, or Europe (including ancient Greece and Rome). Perbi (2001:12) records how 19th century European observers expressed surprise at the humane treatment of indigenous African slaves. The typical situation was that slaves were integrated, in various ways, into the extended family of their owners by adoption or marriage They usually had the right to be fed and clothed, to marry in legal ceremonies, to earn an independent income, to work a plot of land for own consumption, to hold and inherit property, and to have legal protection.

            Slave owners had no absolute power over their slaves and were not allowed to kill them at their discretion – only the king or chief could impose a death penalty on both free and enslaved persons. In cases of maltreatment, owners could be punished in accordance with local legal custom (e.g. fined, as in the Asante state). There are only five records of revolts of indigenous slaves in Africa (Perbi, 2004). Among most of the African states and societies there were also avenues for upward social and political mobility for slaves (Miers and Koptykoff, 1977:134-170). For instance, in the Hausa-Fulani Emirates, slaves could be appointed village heads. Slaves among the Mende of Sierra Leone could obtain the political positions of chiefs. Asante slaves were granted occupation of stools, the traditional symbols of authority (Perbi, 2001:11). And indigenous slaves, unlike export slaves, did not reproduce as slaves but often married free persons and had children who were free people: ‘… children born into slavery could expect to grow up as members of their master’s lineage’ (Lovejoy, 1983:127).”

            Chattel Slavery is a concept that started in the 15th century and primarily flourished in its disgusting nature and massive impact by the WHITE AMERICAN SLAVERY SYSTEM.

            In the future, do your OWN research.

          • Dr Sun

            Chattel Slavery is a concept that started in the 15th century

            Really ?

            I bet that’s a great reassurance to the millions of non chattel slaves that died at the hands of their masters in Africa,Egypt, Persia,India, China,Japan or in the coliseum pre 1400 AD .

          • mistertibbs4u

            Sooooo…. Egypt’s not Africa?

            AND THERE’S THE PROBLEM.

            We’re not discussing Persia, China, India OR Japan… we’re discussing the fact that Chattel Slavery is a concept that until the 15th century didn’t exist TO AFRICANS in the sense that existed OUTSIDE of Africa.

            I bet you thought you were so clever by pointing out other areas outside of Africa, but you’re doing NOTHING but proving my point even more… our discussion WAS Africa and always HAS BEEN Africa… and in REFERENCE to Africa.

            The fact that you mentioned Egypt outside of reference to Africa is especially more telling, though… but… no dice…

            You DO know that it wasn’t the Jews who built the pyramids, right? You DO know that it was the local Egyptian population who WEREN’T slaves, but who were indentured and were required BY LAW to work several months out of the year, right?

            Dude, get your melon out of your bum and face the FACTS… I know you weren’t taught the truth in school, but let’s face it… NONE of us were and THAT’S why I told you to do the research YOURSELF.

            JUST like *that other guy*… you’re NOT going to win this conversation…

            Do you STILL want to argue that until the 15th century (the start of outside influence to the slavery system of pre-colonial Africa) that Chattel Slavery existed…

            IN AFRICA?

            Don’t worry…. I’ll wait.

          • biggj

            “A chattel slave is an enslaved person who is owned for ever and whose children and children’s children are automatically enslaved. Chattel slaves are individuals treated as complete property, to be bought and sold.”

            I’m sure this happened in africa before the 15th century. This is going on right now in Sudan, This form of slavery has been going for 1000’s of years pretty much everywhere in the world. It’s just under the a different name.

          • guest

            Chattel Slavery also ‘seems’ to have occurred in China too and before 1400 AD.

            http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3596015?sid=21104984384081&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3738032

          • Zappa Frank

            Is by itself evident that first you don’t know nothing about slavery in European ancient word, obviously like many inferior gamma makes you have the knowledge to read only a little part of slavery, the one that anyway doesn’t have to do with you, you are American not African, and likely your y dna traces back to Europe. If you read about slavery in Rome you will get to know about “liberto” and how they were able to get roles of prominence, in a real state, not in villages.
            Again the point is:
            Africans sold Africans slaves. That was the very fist post. I know you have to make a mess because you have no answer. You like use pudic terms to say the same thing because you are a inferior gamma male, ok, but still this you admitted your own.
            About that voice of Wikipedia you make a cherry picking, because by chance you ignore parts like this:

            “The slaves in Africa, I suppose, are nearly in the proportion of three to one to the freemen. They claim no reward for their services except food and clothing, and are treated with kindness or severity, according to the good or bad disposition of their masters. Custom, however, has established certain rules with regard to the treatment of slaves, which it is thought dishonourable to violate. Thus the domestic slaves, or such as are born in a man’s own house, are treated with more lenity than those which are purchased with money. … But these restrictions on the power of the master extend not to the care of prisoners taken in war, nor to that of slaves purchased with money. All these unfortunate beings are considered as strangers and foreigners, who have no right to the protection of the law, and may be treated with severity, or sold to a stranger, according to the pleasure of their owners.”

          • mistertibbs4u

            You’re such an epsilon… hahahaha

          • Zappa Frank

            Oh after so many posts you discovered the Greek alphabet? That is really a big step forward for people like you.
            Why did you use one letter of an ancient African civilization that you know so much? Else we may suspect you know nothing of any ancient African civilization

          • mistertibbs4u

            I’m sorry… I didn’t know I was required to recite an alphabet we learned in primary school to somehow prove to you that this “big step” you claim I’m making was actually done in the 80’s….

            “Why did you use one letter of an ancient African civilization that you know so much? Else we may suspect you know nothing of any ancient African civilization”

            This is what lazy people do when they’re losing the argument. Request additional knowledge from the victor in order to hopefully get lost in the argument, claim they were lost in the argument, and then pull the “I’m tired of this nonsense” card and gracefully bow away…

            Not a chance, dude… whether your like it NOT…

            You are taking this loss. and there’s NOTHING you can do about it.

            What information have you cited that proves that African slavery was the same as European slavery? Not a damn line! You know why? Because it WASN’T and THAT’S why you don’t have a leg to stand on…

          • Zappa Frank

            You are looking pathetic and now sorry but is not just me. Anyway, I’m still waiting your answer about why Africans sold Africans slaves. I just gave you a distraction since you seem unable to reply.

            Again I’m forced to remind you that is you that have to prove your affirmations, not other people. And you still haven’t proved anyhting.
            But please, put on some alpha male, next and other bullshits.

            I’ll back eventually tomorrow. So next time I want to see you prepared, because till now you got just a 0.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Please… you have been responded to, given factual information and still itching to find a way to leave without losing face. You’ve been given your answers and you still ask the same questions.

            Saying I look pathetic… and you actually LOOKING pathetic are two different constructs and guess which one is evident?

            I’ll give you a hint… it’s not me…

            Non-alpha male please… I’m sure your tactics work on others who are easily frustrated by the likes of you… but when someone answers your questions several times and you keep asking the same questions, there’s something inherently wrong with that.

            Don’t worry… when you get back tomorrow….

            I’ll be here…

            You remember that… and I’ll explain it to you again

            Now you’re resulting to grading, huh? Anything to take the attention away… I get it.

            NEXT!

          • Dr Sun

            so which particular “ancient African civilizations” are you referring to ?

          • mistertibbs4u

            Why would I be referring to a particular ancient African civilization? When referring to Chinese history, do we have to name a particular civilization before contact with Europeans? Think about what you’re saying.

          • Alex Dương

            When referring to Chinese history, do we have to name a particular civilization before contact with Europeans?

            Why not?

          • Dr Sun

            yes, normally when referring to a event in history (even Chinese history) one gives dates and names ie the Han dynasty 206 BC -220 AD,or that the republic of China was formed in 1912, the CPC took control in 1949. You keep talking about “ancient African civilizations” but you seem vague on names or dates.
            Which makes one suspect your argument is based on speculative conjecture, not on any evidence.

          • mistertibbs4u

            I was so taken aback by your overall denseness that I failed to see this little gem:

            “How many of your family members you sell usually?”

            I have just one question for you. Did the Germans and English consider each other “family members”? So, here you have hundreds of different ethnicities and clans in Africa ( a continent by the way, not a country) who are going through friendships, trade, business and conflict and when one tribe captures another tribe to be moved away from prime resources and land, do they consider themselves “family”?

            I think the nonsense coming out of your mouth NOW is what you tell yourself NOW is common sense.

            You are some serious thought process flaws, dude…

          • Zappa Frank

            Hahah… Yes, because you evidently make slaves of your family and have no problem in selling them. Sorry dude, back to reality….there has never been something like human and good slavery.. I wonder what common sense tell you…not a lot seems

          • mistertibbs4u

            This is such an idiotic statement. So you’re saying that all Africans are family members, as opposed to Europeans who are not?

            Thank you for this ridiculous statement. You see before, you were able to maintain a facade of intelligence, but no longer. A normal person with a base understanding of geography, ethnicity and history would realize you are saying that all warring African tribes should consider themselves family only for the reason that you say so.

            Beyond ridiculous. Did you even graduate high school?

          • Zappa Frank

            I see you lack in understanding , I obviously meant that if as you babbling Africans made slaves and considered them to be part of their family (personal family, not racial family that I never talked about because does not exist) than they wouldn’t be slaves and wouldn’t be have been sold.. Try harder

          • mistertibbs4u

            Ahhhh.. the proverbial ‘fake alpha male’ backtrack…

            You honestly expect me to believe that’s what you meant? lol

            Give me a break… you got cocky… obviously forgot who you were TALKING to… went on a random “Charlie Sheen” tirade about me saying that Africans should spread AIDS throughout Europe (what?)

            You’re clearly insane.

            Don’t try to back peddle… it’s not a good look on you.

            And it makes you look weak.

            I think you’re the one that needs to try harder. You mad, bro?

            You are the epitome of a laughable foreigner in China… you’ve been around people who are fooled into thinking you’re intelligent for so long, that when you come across someone who could argue you through a brick wall… you regain consciousness long enough to back peddle…

            Get a clue, nerd. I said the following:

            “Africans assumed that the captors of their countrymen would embrace these slaves into their families, the same way they did.

            Pre-colonial Africa (that means Africa before white people for all you laymen) and it’s relationship to slavery was acquiring the religion, characteristics of your host family. It had nothing to do with bondage and the dehumanizing of another person.”

            I am, of course… correct. Any nonsense coming from from that point forward was nonsense. You seem to forget that others are reading your dribble as we speak, so… please

            try harder.

            Everyone can see that it is you who lacks understanding.

            NEXT!

          • Zappa Frank

            You remind me with every reply who I’m talking to, an idiot, how can I forget?
            I don’t doubt you didn’t understand, you don’t have much comprehension of your language.
            Still waiting your reply I asked already many times but you seem unable to understand. If slaves were considered part of family why did they sell them? Do you usually sell your familiars? I don’t … So why? And why did they hunt them to sell once the ‘familiars’ to sell were finished?
            For the rest of your babbling no note..

            Ps don’t think because got censored I didn’t notice your post about the black dude that infected with aids something like 25 polish girls (in your fantasy).. I replied you usually black dude get deluded I’m europe. Anyway, that’s irrelevant, still waiting your answer about the slavery if you have any…

          • Animal

            Arabs were historically the biggest traders of African slaves in history. One of Muhammad’s followers was a black slave.

            So where did all the black people go in the middle east? Oh that’s right, all African slaves had their genitals cut off by the Arabs, so that they wouldn’t be able to reproduce in any capacity. And judging from the way rich arabs treat their maids and low wage workers, I dare not imagine how they treated African slaves. Probably with mutilation and torture.

            Whites may have been bad during the slavery era, but there was a lot worse a black slave could suffer in the world.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Oh trust me… I KNOW about the Arabs…

            That doesn’t give European slavery a free ride… and that’s the intent of your statement… somehow because someone else has done something horrible… you can only have one incident of calling something out…

            Sorry dude… I think there’s enough time on this earth to talk a heap of mess about both parties…

            It’s 2015… possibilities are endless….

          • biggj

            I don’t know man, Correct me if wrong but it sounds to me like you are saying that african slave owners where not violent or and threatening to their slaves? And that is only a white thing?? Well I don’t know about you, but if I was slave and my slave owner said” Ok buddy, here is the deal. We are going to take you in, show you how we do things and make you do all the bullshit work we dont want to do for pretty much nothing in return and we wont dehumanize you or harm you.” Well….. I would be gone that very night.

            This is pretty much how slavery works, you make another human do what you say through fear. You don’t ask someone to be a slave, you force them to. In any race or religion, And if you don’t obey, well there is almost always physical action taken against them.And American were bad with slaves, but I don’t think were the worst in history….by far….. American movies and media might think so..but actually very mild by world history standards.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “I don’t know man, Correct me if wrong but it sounds to me like you are saying that african slave owners where not violent or and threatening to their slaves? And that is only a white thing??”

            No, but that is EXACTLY what Zappa Frank is projecting onto the conversation… and that may be why it seems that way…

            The point is traditional African slavery was institutionalized as a social construct and was not systematically abusive or dehumanizing before the 15th century, when the advent of Islam and European chattel slavery growing in Africa.

            Anyone who would tell you that any society was free from any ills would have a thing or two to learn about humanity… but the idea that African societies in turn systematically practiced the same dehumanizing slave trade as the Europeans is purely false.

            The idea that slaves were not seen as part of the family in MOST traditional African slave systems is also inherently false. The idea of Frank saying Africans sold Africans and in turn comparing it to modern day Mauritania under the current Islamic ideology is also inherently misleading, which I’m still not sure if he realizes.

            This is ultimately my point… some people think it impossible that slavery existed as familial aspect of society and wasn’t the same.

            “This is pretty much how slavery works, you make another human do what you say through fear. You don’t ask someone to be a slave, you force them to. In any race or religion, And if you don’t obey, well there is almost always physical action taken against them.”

            Overall this has more to do with perception of slavery from a Western point of view as well as European romanticism. The practicality of slavery and the way in which it is carried out are two different thought processes and anyone who can’t separate the two isn’t going to understand the difference and try to group them altogether.

            This generalization of all things is one of the reasons why we as modern day people aren’t thinking as multidimensionally as we could.

            This ideology of “Eurocentric chattel slavery was institutionally dehumanizing… and therefore, all aspects of slavery all over the world must have been the same, since that’s what my perception is…” is inherently dangerous thinking because it assumes all accounts of a phenomenon under one Eurocentric umbrella and frankly… a little racist.

          • biggj

            Slavery is different everywhere….but yet the same. But more times than not slavery is forced upon someone is what im saying. It’s just how it is. African, Asian, European whatever. If a slave is disobedient…..the outcome would be more or less the same everywhere. African is a big continent, Sure some might be treated better then others, but at the end of the day they were still slaves. All depends on who your owner is. It’s like not all black american slaves where beat and had their feet cut off. Some where treated pretty good” In slave terms”.

            Now im in no way defending american slavery, but I can’t see it being any worse than “african” slavery, or Asian or whatever. You’re not free to go as you please, and that sucks anywhere, no matter how you are treated. And there is almost always painful consequences for fucking up if you’re a slave…..no matter who owns you. But in the End, it’s hard totally exactly know how they where treated, Most people cant even figure out what happened 70 year ago let alone 400 years.

          • mistertibbs4u

            While I understand this sentiment, I mostly agree with it, the area where I digress from your statement is in that slavery is pretty much slavery.

            You stated that there will be instances of slaves being treated horribly and instances in which they are treated well and I also agree with that… but that fluctuation I believe is the nature of humanity… that regardless of which particular organized system we are placed in… we will find ways to either deny the system’s principles in either a positive way or a negative way.

            Which leads to the ultimate point. Just like with racism, it would be useless to discuss individuals on an individual basis, because one person of any color is hardly the problem… the issue with racism, is the system in which all people are inserted to and exactly how that particular system deals with them.

            So, what I’m saying here is that while there undeniably bad instances of slavery before the 15th century (technically, Arab slave trade started in the 7th century, but I don’t know if Frank can think that far back, so I decided to start with the 15th century, something both him and Sun can easily reference) were fare in between… meaning they were not the norm… and systematically, you are considered apart of a system that values the work you do. Whether or not you are rewarded for said work is another issue… that’s the inherent sucky part of slavery within itself.

            The interesting characteristic of traditional African slavery is that you are being refined to accept the local customs and cultures of said people. It’s always been said that if you take a slave either from trade or from your own taking, it would be best to send them as far away from their homeland as possible, as they would easily escape.

            The point wasn’t dehumanization, but as the Chinese put it… “re education”. That was in no way great, but if we’re going to talk about slavery sucking… I think it would be easiest to compare slavery to prison time.

            African slavery: Orange is the New Black… everyone is a criminal and not allowed to leave. You are lower status as a general point of fact. But within your demotion, you are encouraged to socialize in a way that allows you to work and bring me profit. You’re still an inmate, though. And as far away from home as possible.

            White American chattel slavery: OZ… the ultimate goal is to break you and dehumanize you from the beginning. It’s a psychological construct that will allow fear to take precedence over respect. Your physical differences and my intolerance for them only allows me to intensify this sentiment through an unchecked offense from the slave divers (correctional officers).

            While there are sometimes moments of clarity and fairness… systematically that is not the norm.

            And that’s when we get down to brass tacks. The systematic norm, regardless of the individuals within each system.

            And from that point alone, white American chattel slavery is instinctively different from traditional African slavery.

            And for people like Frank who would choose to insinuate that the original african form of slavery was instinctively the same as it’s European counterpart and ask a seemingly simple question in order to justify that fact is what’s ridiculous.

            Not matter how hard he tries, he will fail at putting the two together.

            And that’s what’s called… winning an argument with clarity.

          • mistertibbs4u

            “You’re not free to go as you please, and that sucks anywhere, no matter how you are treated.”

            We could say the same thing about the Soviet Union (let alone the United States), which is crazy, but… true.

            “And there is almost always painful consequences for f***ing up if you’re a slave….”

            I think you bring up a great point…

            In instances of f***ing up in traditional African slavery…

            – not doing any work
            – killing your slave master
            – attempting to run away

            In instances of f***ing up in a white American chattel slavery:

            – speaking your mother tongue
            – reading
            – writing
            – learning of any kind

            One of these sets of consequences has a “glass ceiling” and the other does not. One has “dehumanization” at the core of its ideology and the other does not.

            It is in this sense that Frank is so incredibly smug, yet so wrong.

            Why Sun supports this guy… I have no idea…

            Perhaps both of their homes of cards are falling down…

            Go figure…

          • mr.wiener

            Worth noting: “From the 1440s into the 18th century, as many as 1.5 million white Europeans from Italy, Spain, Portugal, France and EnglandUkrainians were sold into slavery by North Africans.”

            From Wiki:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery.

            No innocents any of us. All the races are stained with evil that was slavery.

          • biggj

            Here is something we all can enjoy.:) I even got the youku one so we all can see.

            http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjc2MTMxNTM2.html

            Buffalo soldier, dreadlock rasta:
            There was a buffalo soldier in the heart of america,
            Stolen from africa, brought to america,
            Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival.

            I mean it, when I analyze these things
            To me it makes a lot of sense:
            How the dreadlock rasta was the buffalo soldier,
            And he was taken from africa, brought to america,
            Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival.

            Said he was a buffalo soldier, dreadlock rasta
            Buffalo soldier in the heart of america.

            If you know your history,
            Then you would know where you coming from,
            Then you wouldn’t have to ask me,
            Who the ‘eck do I think I am.

            I’m just a buffalo soldier in the heart of america,
            Stolen from africa, brought to america,
            Said he was fighting on arrival, fighting for survival;
            Said he was a buffalo soldier win the war for america.

          • mistertibbs4u

            I love that song.

          • mistertibbs4u

            Contrary to popular belief… minstrel shows didn’t start to defame the character of blacks… they initially started as a way for whites who weren’t allowed to respect blacks to display their affection for our music and culture.

            So with that in mind, I would agree… there was never a time in history where blacks dressed up like whites in an attempt to emulate their style and culture in the form of an entire industry.

            I mean I think the greatest example of what blackface minstrelsy was, is when Asians dress up in blackface… it really was honorable to a certain extent.

            Also, when blacks were not granted permission to travel after World War II, whites would dress in blackface to perform for post-WWII Asians who adored black music, but didn’t realize where the music actually came from.

            Hmm… sounds like a Friday night in Shenzhen…

          • Zappa Frank

            Thanks for your enlightenment

          • mistertibbs4u

            Why do Asians feel the need to provide white people with a racist example about black people, whenever trying to make a point, as opposed to provide a racist example about white people themselves?

            I call that indirect weakness and a lack of confrontation skills.

            I seriously think about that and think this in my head:

            White guy: Chingy chong ping pong.
            Asian guy: Hey white guy, that wasn’t quite fair and a little racist. I mean what if I said negro negro something?
            White guy: I’d find that funny, too Asian guy… why didn’t you say “cracker cracker” something? I’m white!
            Asian Guy: Sorry…

            can’t get rid my colonial mentality….

          • Animal

            Well maybe if black civil rights organizations such as the NAACP fought for the rights of all minorities and not just that of blacks, asians wouldn’t need to keep reminding whites that what they are saying about asians would be considered highly offensive if said to blacks.

          • mistertibbs4u

            That’s ridiculous. As an African-American, if someone says something racist towards me, then I would counter with a “what if I said the same thing towards you?” anecdote.

            Asians countering racism from whites by using racism against blacks doesn’t really help their cause, now does it?

            Why would blacks fight specifically for the rights of Asians, if Asian-based organizations don’t equally contribute to the neighborhoods of African-Americans?

            That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. That’s called being a tool. And that’s exactly what happened during the 1970’s push for a diverse America. Many other ethnicities benefited from the programs, but racism against blacks rose again.

            The natural retort for this would be to state, “well, then don’t just complain about it… why don’t you guys work on some programs of your own”, undermining the fact that there was no organized push at that time.

            Then when black programs start to succeed, here come the same people (with your argument by the way), that traditionally African-American organizations should start to focus more on other minorities.

            A rather ridiculous and faulty logic, wouldn’t you say?

    • bujiebuke

      Just mentioning baijiu can ignite flame wars about slavery and such…

      Now imagine people who actually drink the stuff and try to have a conversation.

  • Ken Morgan

    Hmm looks like a typical Korean corporate bonding party to me… ;)

    • David

      We had a badminton tournament to celebrate our newly constructed gym at our school. Of course the tables were lines with beer, mokoli and soju. It is really ingrained in the Asian psyche that drinking makes you a ‘man’. silly

      • hess

        Its definitely not just an Asian thing… Ever been to east Europe?

        • mr.wiener

          Yeh, Shlivovitca….I can still taste the burn.

  • bujiebuke

    No one has yet to convince me that baijiu is not distilled gasoline

    • Poodle Tooth

      So everyone has convinced you? I don’t remember doing that.

      • bujiebuke

        har har har! I wouldn’t dare to ask you…

    • MonkeyMouth

      bai jiu is the heroin of distilled beverages

      • bujiebuke

        heroin or heroine?

      • mr.wiener

        I always thought bai jiu was the liquid bile left over from a crystal meth lab.

        • bujiebuke

          could be…

          or

          it could be left-over sudafed or excess phenyl-2-propanone…

          I would guess that they all taste similar

  • dgosh343

    Why is everyone dumping on Baijiu. It’s not that bad. I even find myself craving Baijiu sometimes. I miss it. There is nowhere to get it where I live. Who can send me some?

    • hess

      I bet the ones hating on baijiu has only tried erguotou or the oh so expensive but disgusting wuliangye/maotai. 衡水老白干 on the other hand is gods gift to mankind, that shit is delicious

      • awww

        erguotou… I use that to remove paint… lol

        • monster

          i saw a young foreign student drinks it in bar, guess he does not have much for drinks inside bars.
          he even wears a t-shirt printed erguotou on.he is a pretty boy so only makes him so cute.

        • hess

          Haha yeah it seriously smells 100% like paint thinner

      • Sophia Dalke

        I’ve had a few kinds of gaoliangjiu like Red Star and Golden Bell. Wouldn’t drink it straight, but I rather like it mixed with puerh. Don’t judge me.

        • hess

          Puerh? Whats that?

          • Sophia Dalke

            You know, tea

          • hess

            Oh i had to google it haha (or more like yahoo it since im currently in china). Im not a big fan of tea though

        • vincent_t

          Sounds like a new cocktail. How does it taste? bitterness of puerh with hint of alcohol?

        • Teacher in China

          Wow, baijiu mixed with puer tea? That actually sounds really interesting. How did you come by that concoction?

          • Sophia Dalke

            The wikipedia page on baijiu mentioned 茶酒, chájiǔ which is described as gaoliangjiu and tea… so I just did it myself… :P

  • RickyBeijing

    Jolly good I say! Thin out the herd!

  • Guest

    I used to drink liters of baijiu. We called it fun, heh.

    Won’t be doing that again. My own morning-after-baijiu breath nearly killed me. Gawd, what is in that stuff? Sorghum, rice, experimental rocket fuel?

    Still, though, lemon baijiu is nice.

  • Zappa Frank

    I only drink a beer once in while or eventually a glass of wine (less than once a week). Don’t like super alcoholics. Anyway I can even understand that drink much is manly in China (and not only in china), but woman that drink like that is gross…

    • Alex Dương

      but woman that drink like that is gross…

      Haha, you should come visit the U.S…

      • Zappa Frank

        I hear about that, but never seen. Well it happen also in my country, but still it’s something that really gives me douche chills

        • biggj

          Tell you the truth, I don’t like a super drunk chicks either. I like my woman on MDMA.

          • mr.wiener

            I like my women like my whiskey…15 years old and mixed up with coke…

            Don’t get up, I’ll punch myself in the face.

          • biggj

            Ba dum tssss.

          • biggj

            ..

          • Sophia Dalke

            You wouldn’t like me then. :P

          • biggj

            Well get a few beer in me and I may change mind. haha No I won’t….well…..I’m not totally against penises….I like my own.

          • Sophia Dalke

            Idk… some tgirls I’ve seen are so hot I would think you’d have to be gay not to want to mount them. Like Jane Marie… https://www.pinterest.com/pin/313000242823326824/

            Then again being pan I’ve never truly understood monosexual people (straight or gay) anyway…

          • biggj

            Yeah she/he is not bad looking. But it’s all fun and games until a penis comes flying at you. :) Not that I know from experience or anything…..( nervous laugh) he.. he..he..

            Wait…..you’re Pan?? that must be cool being able to fly just on happy thoughts and never grow old. :) That’s bang a rang!!

          • jaded

            you really should ‘mull’ over that last comment a litlle!

        • 100fires

          What are douche chills?

    • Sophia Dalke

      So you’re a sexist and kind of hung-up. Good to know.

      • Zappa Frank

        and evidently you are a gross drunk woman.. good to know.

        • hess

          So do you think its ok for a man to drink a lot but not a woman?

          • Zappa Frank

            I didn’t say is ok for a man to drink a lot, I’ve said that I understand that in china to drink a lot is “manly”, not said that is ok. And a woman that drink a cup of 3 liter of baijiu is gross, yes. Do you think is elegant?

          • hess

            Be it man or woman i still think its pretty damn niubi

        • jaded

          if its acceptable for men it should be acceptable for women. Luckily there’s no real stigma about that where I’m from.

          • Zappa Frank

            i doubt exist a place where to drink like that woman is considered socially acceptable by society….maybe Russia.

  • Marcus Black

    Someone is going to die by the end of this.

  • Gary

    Is this better or worse than drinking urine for medicinal purposes?

    • Some guy

      Tough call. Drinking urine would mentally scar you,that much baijiu could kill you or get you in hospital having your stomach pumped.They both probably taste the same.

  • http://douglasmchapman.brandyourself.com/ D. M. Chapman

    Can anyone say ‘alcohol poisoning’? Life has a solution in place for idiocy like this. It’s called by a variety of names, depending on your faith – or the lack thereof: Karma, Divine Justice, Cause & Effect

    Unfortunately, It’s something the majority of Chinese people are notoriously poor at anticipating.

    • Alex Dương

      It’s called by a variety of names, depending on your faith – or the lack thereof: Karma, Divine Justice, Cause & Effect

      How about “natural selection”? (On the subject of “faith,” I’m of the opinion that the truest believers are also the ones who are least likely to flaunt their beliefs ostentatiously in public.)

      Unfortunately, It’s something the majority of Chinese people are notoriously poor at anticipating.

      Lots of people don’t assess “cause and effect” very well.

  • Amused

    Drinking liquor that’s worse than piss out of a chamberpot. Now that’s classy baby!

  • biggj

    That’s funny man lol

  • MonkeyMouth

    3 litres of bai jiu? that would kill 20 elephants! i call “FAAAAAAKE!”

  • Dolph Grunt

    This will not end well…

  • Teacher in China

    Thanks, Einstein.

  • jaded

    I enjoy a drink but that stuff is window cleaner! How they can consume such vast quantites of Baiju is beyond me! The first and last time (forever) I drank Baiju, it was supposedly the ‘good stuff’ or better than usual. Chundered my guts up the next day. Never again!

    • Some guy

      I had a hideous experience at a function once with baijiu and a lot toasting the foreign guest. I also chundered my guts up later that night and the next day. I hated the taste before but now I can’t even stand the smell.

  • FYIADragoon

    I’ve adjusted to it throughout all of the business dinners, but I can’t imagine going beyond several shots of it throughout the night.

  • UserID01

    Man, what is it with the binge-drinking alcohol challenges? That shit’s dangerous. It’s not something people should make a contest out of.

  • Dolph Grunt

    The last video is pretty funny.

    That guy’s friends suck! LOL!

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