Thai Flight Turned Back Due to Unruly Chinese Couple, Reactions


From NetEase:

Two Chinese Passengers on a Plane Insult Stewardess Causing Flight to Turn Back to Bangkok

December 12th early morning, netizen “主持人张潇” [“Presenter Zhang Xiao”] published a microblog post saying two Nanjing travelers insulted a stewardess aboard a plane, resulting in the Bangkok-to-Nanjing flight turning back to Bangkok halfway into the flight. Police directly boarded the plane to arrest them, in an incident characterized as “embarrassing oneself [collectively all Chinese] even abroad”.

ThePaper ( confirmed through multiple channels that Flight FD9101 schedule to depart at 6:30pm on the 11th from Thailand’s Bangkok to Nanjing Lukou International Airport had indeed turned back mid-flight returning to Thailand.

The identity of the real-name verified user “主持人张潇” is that of an television anchor for Thailand’s MGTV Chinese-language television channel and ASEAN Satellite TV’s ASEAN News. The information he posted on Weibo says, on the 11th, that after Thailand’s Flight FD9101 from Bangkok to Jiangsu province Nanjing city took off, “passengers on the the flight got into a fight, with flight crew unable to control the situation”, and thus they turned back to Bangkok.

Netizen “主持人张潇” reshared a Weixin [WeChat] post by a passenger on board about the incident, saying the two trouble-making passengers were over 20 years old, a couple, and that the incident originated with the two passengers not being seated together and yelling for the female flight attendant to help them [figure out a way to be seated together]. The stewardess managed to get them seats together, but they were all very unhappy in the process. Then, when the stewardess began serving dinner, the female passenger took our her own instant noodles, went to the stewardess to ask for boiled water, and for some reason, “the female passenger threw the prepared instant noodles at the stewardess.” After that, the male passenger threatened to bomb the plane, was admonished by multiple people, while the female passenger threatened to “jump out of the plane”. The plane then turned back, whereupon police took them away.

However, the details described above have yet to be confirmed by the airline. With regards to the identities of the two “trouble-making” passengers, it is at present unclear. However, netizen “主持人张潇” posted information claiming the two trouble-making passengers were from Anhui and the male passenger of the two is surnamed Feng.

A Nanjing Lukou International Airport employee told ThePaper that information in their systems show that this flight was scheduled to take off at 6:30pm on the 11th but was delayed because of passengers, ultimately taking off at 11:50pm, and had arrived in Nanjing at 3:10am today (12th).

Comments from NetEase (1 & 2):

lanbeimorong [网易辽宁省沈阳市网友]:

Losing face [for Chinese people] abroad. No matter who was wrong, couldn’t you have exercised some restraint? Aren’t there enough [Chinese people] going abroad to various countries in the world and doing things deserving of censure as it is? Even hotel bathrooms, where nothing happens when anyone else uses them, but when certain people from a certain country uses them, suddenly the toilet paper all disappears.

qlqy1967 [网易吉林省长春市网友]:

Too used to being arrogant/unbridled — the headstrong that comes with being a government official or rich?

别说我是新人 [网易黑龙江省大庆市网友]:

How can a society without a fair environment and without moral convictions foster citizens with an awareness for public ethics?

amdk61 [网易上海市网友]:

Leaders [government officials] have always behaved like this.

0伟大的地瓜0 [网易北京市网友]:

I really don’t want to say “such ugly people”, but can our countrymen

simonjilong [网易福建省厦门市网友]:

Talk about embarrassing, can we please be more civilized when going abroad! Just what kind of people are going abroad!

无人相伴 [姿势帝]:

The man is mad, the woman crazy.

中国百姓之一 [网易辽宁省沈阳市网友]:

How do such people with such low characters manage to go abroad? China’s face [reputation] is all lost by these kinds of people.

网易江苏省徐州市网友 ip:180.123.*.*

Looks like the man here “hit the plane” in reality and made himself impotent. This SB couple, just couldn’t control themselves… big headed doctor…

tradn1 [网易天津市网友]:

This is easy to deal with. Didn’t he say he wanted to blow up the plane? Just execute him as a terrorist once he goes back!

撸先进 [网易湖南省郴州市网友]:

We can now solemnly proclaim to the world:

Rich people of China stand up!

yaosq yaosq [网易浙江省嘉兴市网友]:

Several hundreds of thousands [of RMB] for the jet fuel wasted in the roundtrip, expenses for the flight crew, airport ground handling charges, compensation to passengers for the delayed flight, extra expenses for adding a flight~~~ all calculated it could be nearly a million in compensation, enough to travel around the world. That’ll be fun for this pair of clowns/buffoons.

网易北京市朝阳区网友 ip:221.219.*.*

Indeed a pair of ridiculous clowns/buffoons! Such ridiculousness, and rarely at that. Forget sentencing them to prison, just have them cover the collective losses of all the passengers for the delay.

肉蒲 [网易湖北省孝感市网友]:

An embarrassment yet again caused by ordinary common people without character, right? Ordinary children of government officials or the rich are all prim and proper. It must be. [Note: This is sarcasm.]

崬苝荖莰 [网易广东省东莞市网友]:

This is too speechless. If you have the money to go traveling abroad, would you still be concerned with a few kuai for utensils… Most likely a bunch of unscrupulous businessmen and nouveau riche. So tragic.

网易安徽省合肥市网友 ip:36.63.*.*

Have the two immediately executed. Talk about embarrassing Chinese people.

interaction8 [网易广东省广州市海珠区网友]:

Fortunately it was a Thai airline, as the Thai police won’t be interfered with by various connections passing them messages or putting in a word. If it were within China, I bet all sorts of influence would be used to interfere, such as [government] authority or money and such evil influence that would complicate the entire matter.

跟贴区和谐一片时说违心话 [网易澳大利亚网友]:

The lasting evil of the Cultural Revolution. Only fearing the bullet, without regard for law or morality.

大啖狗粉爹妈肉 [网易日本网友]:

This is the external manifestation of China’s 5000 years of civilization and decorum, what do you people fucking know?

网易广东省深圳市网友 ip:222.125.*.*

Just bury them in Thailand. Don’t ship them back!

Comments from Sina:


When traveling abroad, pay attention to your words, behavior, and bearing! Being a little modest/yielding isn’t going to cost you anything, so don’t lose face [embarrass] for Chinese people! We must fix China’s image in the world!


Civilized habits/behavior are nurtured and cultivated from a civilized environment, so an environment that runs counter to being civilized can only train vulgar and rude people. Our countrymen domestically should cultivate a habit of being yielding, making the habit a norm, and only then will it be that no matter where you go, your behavior will be magnanimous and naturally favorable, and the impression you give others will be that of someone who is civilized and of high character.


This kind scum embarrasses people wherever they go, completely embarrassing our countrymen. The criminal law should enact a statute that if someone embarrasses the country abroad, they should be charged with the crime of harming the country’s image, sentenced to 5 years [in jail], and never to leave the country again.


The characters of people like this really is unbelievably poor, completely embarrassing themselves on an international flight, completely embarrassing their countrymen.


To be so arrogant/demanding even when taking a budget airline, talk about embarrassing [Chinese people] abroad.


What a blow to our countrymen’s image. Please don’t say you are Chinese.


Deal with them in accordance with local laws. Those without character should avoid leaving their homes.


It isn’t enough to embarrass themselves in their own country, they have to go abroad to embarrass themselves, talk about lack of character!


Human scum.


This kind of human scum should be put to death.

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  • bossel

    Don’t know about Thailand, but in some countries you get into serious trouble for threatening to bomb a plane. Plain stupid.

    • biggj

      I know right, it’s just plane stupid. lol

    • Probotector

      It’s also evidence of how far some Chinese will go when they throw a tantrum about not getting what they want.

      • KamikaziPilot

        I will totally agree there, they also think there are no consequences too and think whoever shouts loudest wins.

      • Guang Xiang

        Which is also why Chinese people are usually bad drunks. They get very defensive and violent.

        That’s why I stick with the expats for drinking. (Taiwanese included!)

        • jaded

          They get defensive and think they’re violent. Usually they can’t fight. Well except for the aunties of course!

          • KamikaziPilot

            They fight by yelling most of the time. Loudest wins. Unless it’s another skinny Chinese guy or a woman, then they’re braver than a lion.

  • Ken Morgan

    I wonder what the situation is in Asia with air marshals? In some parts of the world he’s have been shot on the spot.

    • KamikaziPilot

      Actually even if there were air marshals I’m not sure they would have gotten involved in this case. They are there to protect the passengers from legitimate threats to their safety, not arguments or even fights on a plane unless it seriously compromised the flight safety. For all they know this could have been a diversion to identify possible law enforcement on the plane. I’m just making an educated guess at this after reading about an incident in the US where two people got into a physical altercation over reclining seats and I read that even if air marshals were there they might not have gotten involved since it wasn’t a threat to the safety of other passengers (ex. no weapons or credible bomb threats).

      • biggj

        But there was a threat to the safety of the people

        “the female passenger threw the prepared instant noodles at the stewardess.” After that, the male passenger threatened to bomb the plane, was admonished by multiple people, while the female passenger threatened to “jump out of the plane”. The plane then turned back, whereupon police took them away.

        According to some random chinese person,

        • KamikaziPilot

          It would be up to the air marshals to decide if the threat was great enough to get involved. After all there were no weapons it’s highly doubtful they could have brought the plane down and no one would likely be seriously hurt. Also it could possible be a diversion for a real threat. Maybe they would get involved but it’s not guaranteed.

          • biggj

            Now a days though you even raise your voice in most cases on a plane you get in shit. I’m sure they were no real threat….but they can’t take that chance.

          • Rick in China

            That’s not entirely true – it really depends, I mean, when she said she was going to ‘ jump out of the plane’ – if she made her way towards the emergency exit in any way shape or form, I would imagine that is when an air marshall would intervene. Saying “bomb the plane” in a fit of anger doesn’t materialize a bomb out of nowhere, so that probably wouldn’t be a sufficient trigger – but anything regarding the emergency exit, any fashioned weapon of sorts, or anything involving pilots door/area would trigger some takedowns.

          • KamikaziPilot

            But I thought due to the outside air pressure it’s impossible to open the exit door mid-flight. I believe the door opens inward. I’ve read numerous stories of passengers trying to open mid-flight but never successful. I’d think the marshals would know this. Now if there were knives or a breach of the cockpit then I can see the air marshals getting involved. Anyway are there air marshals or equivalent in Asia? I don’t know.

          • Rick in China

            Yes you’re right – she couldn’t actually open the door, physically, but if that was seen as her intent – I think that would prove her motivations to seriously fuck up the plane/its passengers, just the attempt itself should trigger an air marshal to get involved and lock that bitch down, no?

            I don’t know if there are air marshals or not, I would imagine there should be…maybe there’s an int’l law about it or something.

            edit: Singapore (sing air and silkair) both have sky marshals on all their flights….not sure about Thailand airlines tho

          • KamikaziPilot

            Eh maybe I don’t know their protocol. but if I were seated in an exit row or nearby and saw that I’d immediately jump out of my seat to tackle them. I’m pretty sure it can’t be opened so that would provide some peace of mind for me but as you said, her intentions are fucked up, so she needs to be restrained.

  • lacompacida

    The world should pay attention to the rising power of China by now. The airline should have released the passenger to the custody of her fellow passengers, in a sound insulated room in the airport somewhere away from other passengers.

  • jaded

    Nong mings. Fuckin 5000 years of civilisation yet still so uncivilised. I really am at the end of my rope here with these pigs.

    • biggj

      They prefer the term “Nong Shims”….try to be a bit more considerate.

      • jaded

        Haha good one!

    • Guang Xiang

      Calm down, wouldn’t want you threatening to bomb the forums now, do we?

      • Probotector

        How is that even possible?

        • Guang Xiang

          Just about as possible as this clearly daft Chinese guy finding a way to bomb the plane.

      • jaded

        Haha no but I am gonna blow my fuse at one of them these days! Actually i have done so a few times in the past.The lastest display of a lack of manners or respect: neighbour throwing used tissue papers and a tinned vegetable can down into my back yard.

        I have to catch them in the act of course but ive been fantasising about tearing strips out them and then perhaps learning a lesson.

        Don’t suffer fools gladly anymore. An annoying couple was talking and playing on their phone in the cinema. Like they were the only people there.

        My gf tried to reason with them politely. Didn’t take any notice. So I told both of them to shut up. Much more effective. Couple next to me chuckled.

        My Patience is truly depleted. Hence my online handle and recent move from long time lurker to poster!

        • ClausRasmussen

          How about making them lose face by telling all the other neighbors about their behavior? I don’t know if it would work, but maybe it’s worth a try

  • biggj

    Where is liam Neeson when you need him?

    • I love Sexy Chinese girls

      He was Taken.

  • KamikaziPilot

    I won’t address the lost of face issue since I don’t subscribe to that theory. I see similarities between this incident and that Korean air incident. Not exactly the same but what I see here is a couple that act out without any fear of consequences because they think they are above the law. I wonder if they were on another airline in another country they’d try the same. Let them try this on an Israel Airlines or even a US flight and see how they like facing federal charges and possibly being restrained by other passengers, or worse. Maybe they think their fellow asian passengers are too docile to do anything but I hope they get what’s coming to them. And if I were one of the other passengers I’d be very upset my flight has been turned around. I would have restrained them myself. Both of them are cowards thinking they can bully someone just trying to do their job, in the presence of a bunch of women and 120 lbs old men.

    • Probotector

      On an Isreali airline Mossad would just shoot their asses, a US airline would be on their hands and knees trying not to offend them, because the only problem in the US is racism.

      • KamikaziPilot

        Not sure if you’re serious but I’d think in a US airline some people would have restrained them. Nobody wants to have their flight turned around and sit through another flight.

      • jin

        There’s more problems in the US than just racism.

  • biggj

    Everyone seems to think these are rich chinese for some reason….like only rich cunts can be assholes an afford a seat in a coach section? and bring your own noodles to eat??? Just sounds like a run of the mill chinamen to me. Like how much is a ticket from china to bangkok?1000rmb maybe 2000rmb….any chinese hillbilly can afford that if you save up. These people are just cunts…plain and simple….

    • Rick in China

      Yep – pair of cunts. The good thing about Thai legal system is that it’s hard to get out of — takes lots of cash, and sometimes that doesn’t work..especially if it’s like this, where they’re unruly foreigners. Like you mentioned, they don’t seem to be ‘rich’ at all..fucking instant noodles on an airplane? Just a couple of ghetto bumpkin motherfuckers who will likely be unable to buy their way out of prison/paying their associated fines, would be really interested to see follow-up from Thai news on what happens with them..that should be advertised all over China, as in, grow up and stop acting like fucking children abroad because almost no country will put up with your shit.

      • RickyBeijing

        There already was a follow up a few days ago. The Thai government handed them over to the Chinese government who put them on a permanent no-fly list. Some guy on the Shanghaiist posted it. They’re not even allowed to fly internally in China apparently.

        • Rick in China

          No fines paid even? No imprisonment?

          • KamikaziPilot

            If the ban was truly lifetime, depending on how often they travel, and if they were going to Thailand I think it would be a decent amount, then I think for some people the ban would be worse then fines or short imprisonment.

          • Rick in China

            If the ban is truly a lifetime ban on flying domestic or international for the remainder of their lives, and they’re from Anhui, I’d say that it’s essentially a lifetime sentence – and justice has been served. :D

          • KamikaziPilot

            Yeah, they got sentenced to life in Anhui, no parole.

          • Lei Feng’s Hat

            There’s a great Reality TV Show somewhere in all of this; which shitty CCTV station should I pitch it to?

            “The Shame Vortex”: Join us as our cameras follow the lives of the “shamed” and we witness their careers, their friends, their families and all their relationships crumble around them.

            Hosted by the loving (once upon a time famous and influential) parents of Li Tian Yi.

          • FYIADragoon

            Oh god, are they really another group of people from Anhui? What is it with the people from that province? I swear I hear Shanghainese shit-talking them all the time.

          • Rick in China

            It says “However, netizen “主持人张潇” posted information claiming the two trouble-making passengers were from Anhui and the male passenger of the two is surnamed Feng.” — but then again, maybe that poster was from Shanghai :D

          • Kai


            Thai authorities reportedly questioned the couple — along with two of their friends who were also involved in the incident — and ordered them to pay the flight attendant 50,000 baht ($1,500).

            The woman was also fined 200 baht ($6) and the other three passengers 100 baht ($3) each for disturbing public order.

          • Rick in China

            $6…. $3…… wtf. I was expecting a fine paid to the airline in terms of losses – not to the people ‘offended’ or hit with flying noodles, but whatever – Thailand isn’t exactly unfucked either!

          • Kai

            I’m guessing those fines make sense in the context of local economics? We still don’t really know what exactly happened to cause the fight in the first place or how it escalated. The compensation paid to the attendant seems to be fair, but I agree, there is the question of how much they inconvenienced (and cost) others with their outburst and how that was resolved. Did the airline just eat it as a consequence of following protocol? Was there some other arrangement (lifetime ban)? Not sure. Do we have any precedents for unruly passengers paying compensation for turned back planes?

      • Rosemon Calvin Pilot

        “Ghetto Bumpkin Motherfuckers” LMBAO!

        • Rick in China

          That’s what caught you? You don’t know my commenting very well mate, I think that’s par for the course where Rick in China & ChinaSmack meet.

    • Chaz

      True that. Purely common cunts. At least rich cunts or gubmint officials would be in first or business class…not even flying a budget airline!

    • Jahar

      They bring instant noodles to luxury resorts as well. Remember that story a few years ago about the guy who had worked in a hotel in Maldives? They take the kettles out to stop them from making them.

  • Ruaraidh

    Notice how they mostly care about image and face, it’s ‘Don’t show how much of a a stupid cunt you are when you go abroad.’ Instead of ‘Don’t be a stupid cunt.’

    • biggj

      Sure they care about it. Chinese seem to care a bit more about face than other people though. See when the world reads stories like this all the time, people just jump to the conclusion that chinese are shitty tourist or bad manners or arrogant fucks and so on…..when I would say it just a small number who are….but it ruins it for other decent chinese. Now everyone thinks chinese are like this. Like when I on a plane and see a Muslim guy wearing a turban get on….People might not admit it…….but they question in thier mind what this guy is up to…..because of what a few people did. No one wants to be grouped up in a negative light. It just sucks when the actions of a few can tarnish a group of peoples reputation

      • bujiebuke

        Right on.

      • Eddy

        The issue that I think Ruaraidh is implying above is that the Chinese netizens seem to need an incentive to not be an asshole and/or their need to protect their country’s image and face slightly prioritizes ‘not being an asshole’.

        You are very right. Chinese and, in fact, most Asians, really care about face. And it really doesn’t help when there are a lot of Chinese, a lot of Chinese tourists and a lot of Chinese tourists being uncivilized in foreign soil. But why do they keep mentioning face everywhere in conjunction with the perpetrators’ foul behavior? In my opinion, Chinese have deeply rooted group mentality yet it is for selfish reasons. Everything is about “they” against “us” without emphasis on individuality. Yet at the end of the day, they care what the foreigners think of themselves over their countrymen being cunts as well as the well-being of others. Compassion is what’s lacking.

        • Alex Dương

          Very few people don’t care about “face”; as long as you care about what others think of you or how you are seen by others, you care about “face.”

          • Robert

            He is talking about face of the individual vs. face of the collective.

            The point is they care what other people THINK about them as a nation, not what is RIGHT as an individual.

          • Alex Dương

            The point is they care what other people THINK about them as a nation, not what is RIGHT as an individual.

            Then say that. Don’t try to overexaggerate face as a huge cultural difference when almost everybody cares about how they are seen by others.

          • Probotector

            “Don’t try to overexaggerate face as a huge cultural difference when almost everybody cares about how they are seen by others.”

            True and untrue. Yes, in the west there’ a lot of dicks who “don’t take no shit from no muthafuckas”, but they aren’t the majority. Many in the west will compromise and be civilised and amicable over a disagreement, whereas in China, the emphasis is purely on ‘don’t look weak’, and that is the cultural difference. Moreover, many in China do not get the moral education of compassion/reservation/tolerance etc. etc. that Westerners do, and more often than not are spoiled rotten and grow up thinking they are God’s gift, and these problems tend to exacerbate the situation when there’s a disagreement with another.

          • Alex Dương

            If you want to say that how Chinese people care about the way in which they are perceived differs, sure, go ahead. I just find any claim that “face” is a Chinese or Asian thing especially to be extremely overexaggerated.

          • biggj

            Giving and saving face is a hidden rule of all Chinese societies, guiding almost every behavior. People who have been raised in Chinese, or more precisely, Confucius, culture or those who have a more intimate understanding of Chinese social interactions have to always bear this in mind.

            Face is not just an asian thing, but it’s way more embedded in the culture. It’s a huge deal in china.

            For example I would buy my pork from this guy at a chinese food market. say I would buy 50rmb worth at a time. Now when we are bartering the price I would vocally say “100 yuan for such and such a weight so all the vendors around would hear….and only pay him 50 in secret. Now the meat was worth 40 I would give him an extra 10 to to be nice…. And in exchange he would give me 60 rmb worth of meat say. Now he looks good inforont of everyone for besting a foreigner and I get a 10rmb worth of free meat….we both win….because I understand how faces works in china. I dont mind looking stupid as face means not so much to me in this situation.

          • Alex Dương

            I think “saving and giving face” is far more general than just Chinese behavior in particular. For example, there’s a story involving Obama; Austan Goolsbee, his former Council of Economic Advisers chair; and Larry Summers, his former National Economic Council director. Summers proposed financial assistance for auto suppliers while leaving the question of additional assistance for the automakers to a future date. Obama thought the proposal was reasonable, but Goolsbee immediately voiced his concern that such a move would suggest that the automakers would also receive assistance.

            After the meeting, Summers cornered Goolsbee in the hallway and rebuked him for “relitigating” in front of Obama. Now, did Goolsbee really break decorum by “arguing” in front of the President? Or was Summers just pissed that Goolsbee didn’t give him face for his proposal? I’m going with the latter.


          • gregblandino

            If “giving/losing” face wasn’t such a universal concept, the wouldn’t have fit so easily into English language I’ve always said.

          • Alex Dương

            Good point.

          • biggj

            Im not saying face is just a chinese thing or asian thing….I’m just saying its more involved in the Asian society….means a lot more there.

          • ClausRasmussen

            I think the difference is in how a lost face sticks to you.

            Everyone hates to lose face, it is a common human reaction,but while most Westerners can easily brush it off with a “Yeah, it sucks, but tomorrow is another day” Chinese people remembers it (or think that others remembers it) for much longer

            I think it can be compared to how Westerners react to be called fat. It carry a stigma in our culture and can be really hurtful so we often lie or go out of our way to avoid stating the obvious

          • biggj

            And it even continues though death, This is why many bereaved families in Taiwan often ask for funeral scrolls from famous people, especially prominent politicians and entrepreneurs. These scrolls play a symbolic role for the bereaved, demonstrating how much social capital they possess.

            Politicians who bestow funeral scrolls often do not know the bereaved at all and have to spend a great deal of money every month creating the scrolls. Even so, they won’t turn down the requests because they know well that those requests mean that the bereaved see them as prominent and influential enough to be worthy of asking for their scrolls. People are “giving face” to you if you are asked to send a scroll.

            It’s all just cultural in the end. We all do things the same…just differently.

          • Rick in China


            It’s a prioritization thing. In China I find people prioritize face over SO MANY OTHER factors far more often. It’s not about “caring” about what other people think, it’s about *primarily* caring about what other people think – it’s about considering face more important than anything else, both on an individual and collective level. As an example, if this had happened in Canada, the comments would be like “look at those fucking idiots”. In China, the comments are like, “how dare you shame us(me)!”. See the difference?

            Nuance is so often lost on you.

          • Alex Dương

            It’s not about “caring” about what other people think, it’s about
            *primarily* caring about what other people think – it’s about
            considering face more important than anything else, both on an
            individual and collective level.

            That doesn’t contradict what I said.

            As an example, if this had happened in Canada, the comments would be
            like “look at those fucking idiots”. In China, the comments are like,
            “how dare you shame us(me)!”. See the difference?

            No, I don’t.

          • Rick in China

            That doesn’t contradict what I said.

            In context, it does. The statements above mentioned specifically things like “care more about face” and “priorities”, you say: “Don’t try to overexaggerate face as a huge cultural difference when almost everybody cares about how they are seen by others.” – which leads to the implication that there’s not much of a difference between countries/cultures and how they value ‘face’. The point is: there is, absolutely.

          • Alex Dương

            You replied to a comment where I said the following:

            If you want to say that how Chinese people care about the way in which they are perceived differs, sure, go ahead.

          • Rick in China

            Yes, technically I replied to that specific comment. It was the latest comment in a thread. I also replied to the thread. If you’re saying replies must only pertain to the specific comment, not the thread, to which “reply” was clicked, I have a whole lot of response to that implication.

          • Alex Dương

            So how does what you said contradict what I said, as follows?

            If you want to say that how Chinese people care about the way in which they are perceived differs, sure, go ahead.

          • Rick in China

            *sigh* I don’t want to paste exactly what I said 2 comments ago.

          • Mark

            You were right Rick, lol. Arguing semantics on the internet is a waste of time, really…

          • Alex Dương

            Ironically, you were talking about “context” but you refused then and refuse now to acknowledge the full context which includes the comment that you replied directly to. Let me put this in what I hope is a less “belligerent” tone: I’m pretty sure we don’t disagree.

          • Kai

            Another interpretation is that many Chinese people are so cynical about the simple existence of assholes that the most they can hope for is that these assholes don’t ruin it for the rest of them. So it is less about purely “face” and more about managing the consequences that arise from their inevitable existence and behavior.

            There frankly isn’t much difference between Chinese netizen reactions and non-Chinese netizen reactions to similar situations involving their “own”. There are plenty of Chinese netizens calling these people assholes as well. There are plenty of non-Chinese netizens angry about assholes embarrassing the rest of “them” in their instances.

            I think there’s too much eagerness to make a “face” argument here that others the Chinese as a whole, which is disturbing in its own right.

      • mistertibbs4u

        Muslims don’t wear turbans… Sikhs do.

        *Shout out to all my Sikhs* Stay strong! Beards are sexy again…

        • biggj
          • mistertibbs4u

            Historically, yes. However, I’m talking about today. And so were you.

            I GUARANTEE you that the last 60 people you saw wearing a turban (if you’ve even seen that many) were ALL Sikhs.

            Semantics are semantics, but muslims no longer wear turbans. That’s a fact.

            Take that, Boris!

          • biggj

            I know the difference, I was just making a point. I’m in Edmonton right now living in Punjabi central. And they wear them I know not for religious reasons, though I’m not a expert on the different type of head dresses. The reasoning behind the turban thing is most people bunch all traditional head wear together as a turban. Osama bin laden wore a head dress, which people think is a turban, So in peoples minds”not all” but most think ” Middle Eastern+beard+ turban= potential terrorist.

            Like “chinese+ plane+ fight= all Chinese have no class. Or to the chinese they think” rich goverment official or new rich people.

            This is all just basic nonsense. To a non racist educated person this is all just crazy talk. But to everyone else this is their logic.

          • mistertibbs4u

            While all of what you just said may be true, you responded to my call on your misuse of the word, not with a “that’s right” or “definitely” but a link to Wikipedia. Haha.. I don’t know where you’re from, but on most western boards that means you disagree. And not just disagree, but in one of those “Cheers” Cliff Clavin… “actually… you’re wrong” ways.

            I’m from California (home to the largest Chinese community outside of Asia and home to the most diversified group of middle easterners) and have been frequenting middle eastern, muslim (both African and Arabic) and Sikh communities since I was knee-high. As African-Americans, we are predominantly Southern Black Baptist with the second highest religious following being Islam. This isn’t a Internet lookup… it’s a “I looked up” at the heads of my uncles, cousins and their Afghani, Paki, Turkish and muslim friends on a daily basis. On top of that, my best friend is Sikh and I’ve been schooled on all things Sikh by her and her family since high school while eating roti at their crib, bro.

            In islam they wear head wraps, not turbans. And their usually called Emamahs. In English colloquialism, SIKHS are the only group of people who wear actual “turbans”. That was my point. A turban is a type of head wrap, with other head wraps being identified with different Arabic or English words. Westerners kill me when they try to categorize all middle eastern and african head wear under the name “turban”.

            So if you really agreed with as much, you a) wouldn’t have perpetuated the stereotype in the first place and b) would have realized that even the most sarcstic of posters here without a knowledge of Sikhism would have (just like the Chinese here) taken what you said at face value. Technically, if you agreed, there wouldn’t have been any response from you… whatsoever.

            Like now. (waiting to see what you will do…think about it!)

  • vonskippy

    The female troublemaker threatened to jump, the pilot should have gone slow and low and let her.

    • Kai

      What? No, that’d just delay everyone else intent on getting to their destination on time. He should’ve just announced to the cabin that they’re going to open a cabin door for the hysterical woman to jump out and anyone who isn’t interested in following her should buckle up while she does.

  • Amused

    Well, at least I wasn’t on the plane with them! …This time….

  • bujiebuke

    I’ve witnessed these types of behavior first hand and it’s usually the kind of Chinese who have suddenly leaped out of poverty and found themselves with disposable income. They think having money gives them a green light to mistreat others in the same way that people have treated them. In addition, a lot of that bad behavior is indicative of their own insecurity about their social status. It’s a very sad perpetual cycle of hazing the less fortunate.

    On the other hand, they could just be really shitty tourist – which they can join a large international crowd.

    • Jay K.

      I believe Amy Chua and Jed Rubenfeld have considered this as part of the “Triple Package” to uplift those from rags to riches.

      • bujiebuke

        Good god she shat out a new book already? I’m not surprised that people eat up her garbage of a thesis – recycling perceived stereotypes rebranded with the Harvard seal and sold to people who disregard critical thinking.

        • Jay K.

          ever read her books completely, besides the bits and pieces/excerpts?

          • bujiebuke

            No, I’ve read only wiki entries and reviews. However, my contention on her book stands for the same reason that I don’t need to read Ann Coulter’s latest “book” or any other screaming GOP mouthpiece to know it’s garbage.

            Her books are an attempt to explain why some groups of Americans are more successful than others drawn on racial lines. The very premise that there are different race of human beings runs against all evidence of modern science. Since she has not presented evidence to support that claim, then her thesis must be rejected.

            What else am I missing here?

  • christian

    Oh really? Which book u refer to?

    • Zappa Frank

      archeological evidences

  • Mark

    Chinese acting Chinese, news at 11.

  • hyuugasaki

    well even with 1% bad egg out of 1 billion, it’s still 10 millions of them, what are the chance you found 1 or 2 out of that 10 millions.. and they explode quite easily.

    last time, there was one person who was standing on the back, pushing like everyone won’t give him way, even though the door wasn’t opened yet and people in front of him haven’t get out, and it’s a station where tons of people get out. when pushed back, he went ballistic, kick people’s back and hit people in the face.

    or the “I don’t want to queue” or “blocking subway exit because they want to go in first”. can’t talk about ethic when they’re too egocentric.

    • Probotector

      Or how about getting up when the plane is taxiing, and refusing to sit down because THIS IS STILL CHINA UNTIL I GO THROUGH IMMIGRATION? True story.

      • hyuugasaki

        I just hope the plane got bumped while they’re taking out their luggage and it fell on their head right after they said that, just to remind them karma is a b**ch

  • FYIADragoon

    I think mainland Chinese have been embarrassing themselves abroad since day 1. They only seem to export their worst. I can’t believe Chinese still show surprise at this kind of news.

    • Alex Dương

      If they only exported their worst, you’d think Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore should be shitholes. Are they?

      • If I May

        You have got to be one of the shittiest moderators in the planet. Always butting in in mostly bullshit comments designed to stir up shit. What a jerk…

        Who gives a fuck if what FYIDragoon said is a generalization..? Really. The message is understood in the context of the article, you freakin’ asshole.

        You, coupled with the fact that cS is now asking for money from its readers, are the reason why I didn’t reply to Kai (whom I rather like in spite of his often being a shade “bombastic” and “higher-than-thou” more often than he should, imo) on a nother thread some days ago. I wanted to tell him how my wife translated something that he was curious about. We were having a good conversation, but this Alex D. + $$ stuff is unacceptable, as far as I’m concerned.

        I’m done posting here (not that that matters, really). From now on, I’ll read only… maybe.

        Thanks for the memories, cS.

        • Alex Dương

          Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Ta-ta.

          • If I May

            Cheers, you arrogant dick.

          • Probotector

            You do know that CS is run and (mostly) moderated by American-born Chinese nationalists, right?

          • Alex Dương

            Not sure what you have in mind with “Chinese nationalist,” but Fauna’s not American-born, and neither is wiener. In any case, I’m pretty sure that If I May knows I’m Chinese American. For whatever reason, he never liked me, which is his right; he doesn’t have to like me. The only thing I found beyond annoying was his entitled attitude: he expected me to treat him better than he treated me, and when I treated him the way he treated me, he would cry and pretend to be a victim. The passive aggressiveness was such a peeve.

          • ClausRasmussen

            >> passive aggressiveness

            Yup, you’re an American. Through and through lol

          • Kai

            Wait, I’m not sure I understand you. Is it “American” to consider passive-aggressiveness annoying?

          • ClausRasmussen

            Haha… it is just using the term “passive aggressive” that brands you as an American

          • Kai

            Interesting, I never knew use of that term was associated with Americans. Now I do!

          • ClausRasmussen

            I believe it is very specific to American discourse, maybe some native English speakers outside of the US can chime in if I’m wrong?

          • Teacher in China

            We definitely use the term in Canada, and loads of people behave this way too. There’s a real front of politeness, especially in the workplace, where people can often resort to passive agressive behaviour to deal with inter personal problems.

          • Alex Dương

            Interesting. I didn’t think it was a giveaway.

          • ClausRasmussen

            That and s*cking at metrics and being fond of thin beer lol

          • Alex Dương

            Dude, the metric system is the work of the devil.

          • ClausRasmussen

            That’s what they said at NASA after they slammed a billion dollar satellite into Mars because they f*ucked up conversion between metric and imperial lol

          • mistertibbs4u

            German lagers all the way…

            Oh… and Sam Adams *bro fist*

          • ClausRasmussen

            I only know Budweiser. A friend of mine once described it as “water with a flavor” :-/

            >> Sam Adams

            I looked him up. Wikipedia talks about “full-bodied brews that are robust and rich with character”. Sounds like the real stuff

          • bujiebuke

            passive-aggressiveness is more of a mid-west kind of thing.

            In the south it’s “bless your heart” which is translated to “I’m going to fuck your face when your asleep.”

          • Kai

            Is it? I had no idea!

          • mistertibbs4u

            Wanna-be alpha males always pull the “victim” card when you call them on your nonsense.

            Scan my previous posts for proof.

            Passive aggressiveness is not even the word to describe this schizophrenic behavior.

          • wes707

            Many of them are Han tribalists with Western citizenship. They take advantage of the openness of our societies while retaining total racial loyalty – accordingly douchebags like Alex must perpetually save face for his people.

          • Alex Dương

            The irony in this post is incredible. You’re berating me for being a “tribalist” and “retaining total racial loyalty” while using language like “our societies” and asking me if I’m “at all grateful” that my parents emigrated to the U.S. from China.

            Calling you out on your ignorance and your bigotry doesn’t make me a “Han tribalist.” It doesn’t mean I retain “total racial loyalty.” As far as I’m concerned, the only race is the human race. To borrow a page from Zhou Enlai, it’s very interesting that you were born in “our society” to two supposedly enlightened, non-Chinese parents, whereas I was born in “our society” to two poor Chinese immigrant parents; and we each betrayed our heritage.

          • Kai

            Fauna is not an ABC. I’m not an ABC. Joe isn’t. Thomas isn’t. A lot if not most of our past contributors aren’t, especially those with many posts under their belt, such as Peter, Li, etc. mr.wiener isn’t. Alex I guess is.

            I wish you wouldn’t advance your blind speculations based on your prejudices and biases as “fact”.

          • KamikaziPilot

            You’re not ABC? Where was you born? I always thought you were ABC. If not did you immigrate to the US at a young age? Those 1 1/2 generation immigrants are almost like ABC to me.

          • Kai

            Yep, I immigrated at an early age and am more stereotypically ABC than I am an “immigrant” but I am technically the latter. The point however was that Probotector didn’t let himself actually not knowing anything to stop him from presenting his prejudiced speculations as fact.

          • If I May

            Here… I’ll upvote your comment.

        • Guang Xiang

          Sorry, all I hear is ‘Wah wah, I can’t discuss at the same level of logic as Kai and Alex’

          It’s normal to meet intellectually superior people some point in your life, but to also show such insecurity through expletives is just…

        • Kai

          I’m not familiar with whatever grudge you had with Alex so I’m not going to comment on that. I will say that I don’t agree with your nonchalance towards “mostly bullshit comments designed to stir up shit”.

          That’s the definition of trolling. Should we start interpreting these comments as trolling and just delete them? Then ban the commenters for repeat violations?

          We try to give the benefit of the doubt that people are often (perhaps carelessly) loose with their words. Chinese netizens are often guilty of such as well, and people reliably take issue with them. Why can’t Alex or anyone likewise take issue with those he finds disagreeable?

          Alex clearly cares that FYID made an indefensible generalization, just as many clearly cares about Chinese netizens or other commenters doing likewise about other targets/topics. Sure, people who demand greater precision or sensitivity in speech can be annoying, but isn’t it likewise annoying to others to have to constantly put up with people who are either nonchalantly sloppy
          in their speech or intentionally amused with stirring up shit?

          I don’t think you’re being fair or reasonable here.

          I appreciate you rather liking me despite chafing at what you consider to be some of my flaws. I think you have some flaws too but I’ll avoid explicitly characterizing and substantiating them to be nice because I thought our last exchange was refreshingly civil despite my past impression of you.

          I’m sorry to hear your decision to stop commenting and possibly read. I’m saddened that you find our desire to switch from an ad-supported model to a crowdfunded model to subsidize our expenses and efforts to share something about China in an honest fashion to be alienating to you. I wish you could put yourselves in our shoes and recognize the decisions we have to make. About 5% of our past content has already been taken down to appease certain advertisers because we really wanted to keep this “free” for you. Is it really appalling to you that we hope at last some of you are willing to chip in a bit so that collectively we can continue enjoying chinaSMACK?

          If I’ve read your sentiments wrong, I apologize, but please do consider what I’m saying.

        • bujiebuke

          Wow, goodbye you whiny little bitch.

          If your packing your bags and running just because a few people offer different viewpoints then your going to need all the luck you can get in life.

          Stormfront is that way –>

          I’m sure they’ll be happy to hear about your bitching and moaning.

      • Probotector

        What? Those aren’t exported. It’s not like HK/Taiwan /Macau people fled China to find a better life like Oriental Mayflower pilgrims. Taiwain, maybe kind of, but that was more being driven out, rather than fleeing. In any case, those places are considered more civilised dye to their adoption of western moral values, or rather the rejection of mainland Chinese/CCP moral values, (if such a thing exists).

        • Alex Dương

          It’s not like HK/Taiwan /Macau people fled China to find a better life like Oriental Mayflower pilgrims.

          Why’d they leave then?

      • FYIADragoon

        I’m going to just ignore the battlefield below, because I’m just here to troll ESLs and entertain myself. But since, I had something nice happen today, I’ll re-state this a bit, because I think I might have worded it too vaguely and my meaning might have been obscured. The people that China sends out on a temporary basis (the tourists, the temp. citizenship squatters, the sea turtles) are some of the country’s worst behaved. Generalization perhaps, but I think most people abroad would be prone to agree with this.

        Singapore and Hong Kong woudn’t be the choice examples to mount against my argument though. Taiwan is more of a Chinese-made country. The former two, not so much.

        • Alex Dương

          The people that China sends out on a temporary basis (the tourists, the
          temp. citizenship squatters, the sea turtles) are some of the country’s
          worst behaved. Generalization perhaps, but I think most people abroad
          would be prone to agree with this.

          Singapore and Hong Kong woudn’t be the choice examples to mount
          against my argument though. Taiwan is more of a Chinese-made country.
          The former two, not so much.

          To be clear, I’m not claiming that Singapore and Hong Kong are great because the people there are majority ethnic Chinese descended from mainland Chinese immigrants. They benefited from excellent institutions and in the case of Singapore, making good use of inheriting excellent institutions.

      • Zappa Frank

        aren’t Taiwan and Hong Kong China?

        • biggj

          Only when a foreigner says it isn’t.

        • Alex Dương

          They aren’t part of mainland China.

          • Zappa Frank

            but we can’t say they come from an “export of mainladers” since they have been the same china before the division

          • Alex Dương

            The ancestors of many Hongkongers and Taiwanese left mainland China before 1949. But plenty have rather recent ancestors who left after 1949. Either way, they’re descended from “mainland exports,” but if all the exports were the “worst,” you’d think Hong Kong and Taiwan should be crap. But they aren’t.

          • Zappa Frank

            come on, how many of the ancestor of Taiwanese and are arrived after ’49? and how many after the various periods that made the difference that we can now see between mainlanders and other Chinese?
            I don’t agree with what has been told, but now you are twisting the situation to make it fit. What was meant with “mainlanders” is clear and for sure didn’t mean Han people arrived from china around 1600 in Taiwan or even arrived in HK later.. It was obviously referring to nowadays mainland Chinese and in particular 土豪 seemed to me.. if I remember correctly you complained about the behavior of mainlanders Chinese went to Taiwan or not? ( I mean recently, as tourists, not mainlanders of 1600)…

          • Alex Dương

            To answer your question, I think ~12% of Taiwan has recent “mainlander” ancestry. But in response to your main point, I think the same people who make this kind of claim also like to mock the “5,000 years of history” that certain Chinese hold as a point of pride. Their opinion is that nothing’s changed in 5,000 years.

            So if you have people saying that and then talking about “mainland exports,” then I am not twisting anything to make a fit. I’m pointing out that some people say too much shit that ends up being contradictory.

          • Kai

            I think it was pretty apparent he was referring to specifically mainland tourists and not so much overseas ethnic Chinese in general. His remark is still inflammatory but he’s admitted as much and went on to clarify himself. He’s generalizing modern mainland Chinese who travel overseas and exaggerating that they’re all constantly doing things that embarrass themselves and their kind and have been like this “since day one”.

            He’s appealing to a prejudice and he honestly acknowledged it.

            Similarly exaggerated generalizations could be made about others (ex. American tourists) just as well and you’ll have different people being “prone to agree” nodding their heads with such depending on context and crowd.

          • Alex Dương

            Yes, I should’ve pointed out to Frank that he clarified his remarks. I think it’s totally fine to criticize bad behavior; my issue is when people say so much stuff to the point where the criticisms start to contradict each other. That’s all I wanted to say to Frank.

          • Kai

            Yeah, don’t worry, I feel you.

            (not in that way)

      • Johan Kristiansen

        I don’t know about Taiwan because I never lived there, but Hong Kong has definitely been becoming one at an alarming rate for some time. That should be obvious to anyone that has lived there for a few years. Meanwhile, just a years ago, at least two hotels in Singapore refused to let mainland China tourists book rooms. They did that because those China tourists would more often than not cause trouble for staff and other guests, while at the same time not following the strict Singaporean laws. Maybe those hotels don’t that anymore, but maybe more hotels are doing it instead. The point is that the PRC does export a lot of really bad tourists.

        • Kai

          Yeah, I think most people understand the point but take issue with articulating such a point in a way they consider needlessly inflammatory. This is hardly something that only crops up in conversations about the Chinese.

  • monster

    hahahaha, so funny!

  • KamikaziPilot

    Should have tied both of them up like this, that’ll teach em a lesson.

  • Probotector

    Threatened to bomb the plane? Threatened to jump out the plane? Why? Because of loss of face? Some Chinese really need to understand that in life, people will say ‘no’ to you a lot, and then deal with it

    • B*tches, Leave

      Oh sweety, the one child policy made the kids very spoiled here, they don’t hear “no” a lot.

    • ClausRasmussen

      >> Because of loss of face

      No one say their rage was caused by loss of face. It is the Chinese commentors that feel China lost face because of the actions of the couple

  • B*tches, Leave

    After living a long time in China, I can only advise not to get in the way of a Chinese and his/hers instant noodles, when he/she is travelling.
    I think the reason why they flew back was because they had no faith in Chinese authorities to arrest these two troublemakers.

  • Probotector

    The point is, it’s a long enough period of time to get your act together.

  • Zappa Frank

    why every time is always about ’embarrassing the country’ and Chinese all should feel embarrassed? Are Chinese a collective one mind ruled society like the Borgs?

    • biggj

      “Your life, as it has been, is over.
      From this time forward, you will service us.
      Resistance if futile”

      • Rosemon Calvin Pilot

        Lmao…Chinese Borgs….Art imitating life

  • Moogle

    “The lasting evil of the Cultural Revolution. Only fearing the bullet, without regard for law or morality.” I totally agree with it. Cultural revolution destroys ancient civilized Chinese ethics and moral values.

  • Xman2014

    Chinese woman talking loudly on the phone on a bus in South Korea, driving everyone crazy, until a man can’t take it anymore and explodes in anger at her.

    • garbo

      I told an old cow to be quiet after she was shouting inti the phone next to me for 15 minutes or so. She was really embarrassed but who cares. I won’t have hearing damage because of her. She was that loud.

  • KenjiAd

    The couple behaved just the way many would have on/in the street, market, bus, train in China. I’ve seen similar behaviors all the time. I think several factors contributed to this particular incident.

    First, the majority of passengers were Chinese, or at least Asian-looking, including the flight attendants. This had an effect of creating an environment resembling China. In other words, I doubt the same couple would have behaved this way if they were in, say, an American Airline from New York to Dallas.

    Second, for better or worse, making a noise (the louder, the better) is one common way of solving your problem in China. This is not based on the culture; let’s not make a mountain out of a mole hill. Instead, it has a lot to do with the lack or inefficiency of a proper procedure for problem solving.

    For example, let’s say you saw some problem in your bank account. If you simply go to the bank and politely ask for the remedy, chances are it won’t go anywhere. The “correct” way is to go there and start shouting on the floor – then the manager comes right a way. Problem solved (I’m exaggerating a little bit, but not that much.)

    Lastly, in the Chinese society, if you are wronged by someone, you get an automatic pass to do whatever you want to get even. This is more or less allowed here. A small example might be – if you park your car in front of someone’s business, expect someone will take the air out of your tires or throw garbage on the hood.

    Again, this is not necessarily “cultural.” It has a lot to do with the lack of legal procedures dealing with the situation.

    So in summary, this couple, though certainly looking uncivilized, isn’t behaving particularly unusually nor even barbaric. I think part of their behavior was actually an act intended to draw attention and get what they wanted.

    • KamikaziPilot

      Agree with your assessment of the situation. Regarding your last paragraph, you’re right they weren’t behaving barbaric or particularly unusual it’s just that from a non-Chinese viewpoint, they were acting like 8 year olds who didn’t get the toy they were promised for Xmas. Despite coming from a different background than the couple I still don’t have any respect for them and consider them cowardly for behaving in such way, I don’t care what their culture is. There are times when you have to get loud and make a scene to receive what’s rightfully yours, this wasn’t one of those times.

      • KenjiAd

        You know what? Most Chinese people would probably agree with you. With that clearly said, I would add the following.

        I spent the vast majority of my adult life in foreign countries. I was born in Japan, went to America when was 26 and ended up staying there for 26 years. I now live in China.

        One lesson I learned from these experiences is that there is always an inherent danger in judging other people who have a cultural background different from mine. Doing so is inherently risky, because the question of whether certain behaviors should be acceptable or not is pretty much culture-dependent.

        Note that the majority of Chinese comments revolves around the national embarrassment this incident caused, not on their childish behavior itself.

        So I feel that you are a bit too harsh on them. But that’s just my two cents. :-)

        • KamikaziPilot

          I agree again. Regarding being too harsh, well that comes down to how much leeway you’re willing to give based on cultural differences. Ex. if it was okay in a certain culture for older men to marry 14 year-olds would that be okay? Or how about eating dogs or government corruption or racial discrimination? Or in this case, yelling and screaming over something that another culture dictates should be handled with more civility? The line has to be drawn somewhere and it’s different for each person. Just because it’s part of someone’s culture doesn’t make it right or wrong, just something to take into consideration like you said.

    • Kai

      I’m still kinda curious about the couple’s version of events. Does anyone know what pissed them off so much? Granted, their choices and behavior subsequent to whatever angered them makes them incredibly unsympathetic but I’d still like to know what their grievances were or how they rationalized their escalation.

      • KamikaziPilot

        Yeah, me too. There are actually times where I’d say yelling and screaming are warranted but without further info, and what I know about Chinese people, I’d have to say this wasn’t one of those times. Then again there are always at least 2 sides to every story.

        • Kai

          I don’t want to dismiss the possibility that they had a legitimate grievance where screaming is an understandable if not reasonable response just because of whatever stereotypes I might have about Chinese people. I will however say there’s a difference between screaming in anger and threatening to blow up the plane or wanting to hysterically wanting to jump out of the plane just because it was now turning back to Bangkok. I want to be fair and not let one aspect of the incident cause me to dismiss another aspect, but I also want to condemn the hysterics for being hysterics.

  • Zappa Frank


  • jaded

    Because its something they always laud about with pride. It’s part of their face to the world. However that ancient culture has long since dissapated, and what’s left is a 3rd world mindset stuck in a 1st world capitalist vacuum..

    We have phones with flashy lights we can take them out anywhere! we can finally afford a budget airline flight, we can treat people like shit!

  • ClausRasmussen

    It is not just 5000 years of civilization, it is 5000 years of _continued_ civilization. No other civilization comes even close to that

    Turkey, for example, have hosted civilizations that are comparable in age to that of China, but those cultures have also been wiped out by invaders several times. There is nothing left of the Hittite empire in today’s Turkey

    • Zappa Frank

      while Chinese civilization has never been conquered nor has been modified from outside? doesn’t seem to me.

      besides until 2000 years ago (more or less) there wasn’t a china, but multiple kingdoms.

      • ClausRasmussen

        Strawman. Being invaded is not the same as having your culture, language, writing system, religion, and your people being completely replaced with that of the invaders

        • Zappa Frank

          that actually didn’t happen in many other places of the word, not just in china. besides also the story of the 5000 is not that clear, I suspect that if we would use the same meter used in west we wouldn’t talk of 5000 .

          • ClausRasmussen

            >> 5000

            The 5000 years is rumored to be quoted by Zhou Enlai on a visit to Egypt. He didn’t want to lose face when presented to the Egyptian claim of 5000 years of history

            In reality, Chinese culture can track its origins as far back as to the oracle bone script ca. 1300 BCE. Oracle bone script is pretty evolved so Chinese civilization must have existed for some time before that, but we don’t have any evidence (Chinese archeology is a relatively young discipline so we may get wiser in the future)

            Western culture can be tracked back to the linear B script of Greece ca. 1400 BCE, the age of mythology (Troy, Oddyseus, Achilles, the Argonauts, etc), so it can be considered to be of the same age as Chinese culture. However, linear B and the associated culture (but not the language) disappeared in the bronze age collapse in the Eastern Mediterranean, leaving a gap of several centuries of “discontinued civilization until classic Greece (Aristoteles, Sokrates, Herodot, Platon, etc.) of ca. 500 BCE

            Other cultures predate both Chinese and Western cultures by far: Sumer (3400 BCE), Egypt (3000 BCE), and the Indus culture (2500 BCE), but they are long gone without leaving any trace other than some dead stones

            On the bottom line: China can claim at least 3300 years of continuous culture, while the West can claim between 2500 years (if we count from classical Greece) and 3400 years if we include the mythical age

          • Rick in China

            culture, language, writing system, religion, and your people

            Are you implying that all of these things have remained the same for all this time? AFAIK there are many languages in China, multiple writing systems, religious diversity trumped now by essentially no religion, and more than 50 minorities, some of which being minorities which controlled what we now call “China” for several generations throughout the history of China.

            When you slap what is essentially a melting pot of the people in the area together, and call it 1 thing, suddenly you have representatives from each ‘power’ in the past – and it becomes easy to say “they’re still here now.” I don’t see how that’s so much different than many ‘western’ histories.

            China and Europe are about the same size, yah? So what if we just say Europe has more than XYZ years of history, would that work as a comparison? They share currency, have for much of the history been mostly controlled by one or just a couple super powers (much like China), for the most part shared religion, etc.

          • ClausRasmussen

            I’m not really sure what you’re arguing?

            Continuous culture doesn’t mean that things never change. It means that more recent stuff builds on, is a continuation of, older stuff

            Writing systems are part of a culture and when you can track that back 3300 years then I would say that it is a sign of continuous culture

            Westerners can similarly track their writing system 2500 years back and with it follows a lot of concepts and science that are relevant for our culture even today

            I don’t understand your Europe vs. China angle? Depending on your definitions either one of them they can be oldest culture, but China clearly have the oldest writing system

          • Zappa Frank

            Troy wasn’t just mythology since the city itself has been found, is already a lot more than what we can say for big part of Chinese history. The novel of Homerus is based on the mycenaeans that also are a fact since we have archeological evidences and are dated 1600bc. Even before (more than 2000bc, but is up to what we want to consider) we had Minoans in Crete that were even older and also were part of what became Greece so much that many myths are still the same.

          • ClausRasmussen

            The “mythology” part does not mean it didn’t happen or that the people in the stories didn’t exist. It refer to how the stories were treated in later times. The Troyan war is assumed to have happened ca. 1200 BCE

            The Minoans were not part of Greece culture, they were not indo-europeans, and except for their writing system (linear A) that the Greeks used in modified form as linear B they left no lasting mark on Greek culture

          • Zappa Frank

            I wouldn’t say they left nothing to greek culture nor the fact that they were not indo European is of any importance. In Crete still there are their descendants according to DNA analysis. I wouldn’t say is nothing a writing system. Also myths like the minotaur that is a greek myth come from them, same for Minos, there is a great presence of Minoans in Greeks myths…those are myths present even in the divine comedy, I wouldn’t say there has been no influence. For sure we can consider them part of the same culture as much as we consider for various Chinese kingdoms be part of the same China.
            About the age of mythology my meaning is that wasn’t just mythology with no evidences, but is full of evidences, therefore of course have to be considered part of European history.

          • ClausRasmussen

            According to DNA analysis we’re all of African culture :-/

            I used “indo-european” to describe them as having a completely different language and an equally different religion, essentially a different culture

          • Zappa Frank

            I’ve mentioned the dna analysis only to show that those people are still there… All cultures are different, but mix each other… to say that Mycenaean culture were not affected by Minoans is something that is hard to believe. You think that they take just writing system and nothing else? As I told you there have been myths on Minoans in greeks legend, I think we cannot simply claim it was a dead end as civilization.

      • 白色纯棉小裤裤

        When Chinese civilization was conquered, the invader replaced their own culture with Chinese culture and ultimately became a part of China.

    • Tommy Hass

      “There is nothing left of the Hittite empire in today’s Turkey” Yeah, only it’s people.

  • Fdom

    They were from Anhui? That’s why they think they are high class flying Air Asia.

  • Guest

    Thai prison is such a wonderful place with No discrimination. They treat everyone equally bad. Soon couple will learn what really “service” mean.

  • JayJay

    Chinese tourists aren’t the worst, in my opinion, but they are loud, ‘unhygienic’ and usually travel in swarms and rather less considerate.

    I have travelled a lot, although as much as my Mrs, but of all the foreign tourists I encountered, some of the American tourists are the worst (this is based on my trip to Iceland and once on my way to Shanghai in Heathrow, albeit most Americans I met on my trips are quite friendly). In Iceland, we were on a local excursion trip, the American tourists on our mini-bus were constantly late and everyone had to wait for them, they made homophobic remarks and were very opinionated. They asked me if bound feet still happens in China. I think they only noticed my skin colour not that I am British by nationality and had no effing idea what goes on there (not that it still does, but it is also an insult to Chinese people). I almost lost it and wanted to ask if lynching of black people still happens in the US.

    There other instances I encountered with other nationalities. In Petra, Jordan, a Italian girl didn’t queue, which pissed me off. Even in England, if you have been on a train back with football fans after a match, they are no better than the Chinese tourists in this story.

    There are obnoxious people in every country, not just in China. At least the netizens feel ashamed of them

  • jin

    I don’t know about you… but I rather pay 1mil yuan fine than having a permanent fly ban. Imagine not being allowed to fly domestic and international, you vacation will always be inside your own province. Thats permanent house arrest.

    • RickyBeijing

      well… that kinda depends on personal preference and situation. for 1 mil yuan I would move to another country and say fuck everyone. Fly out from a neighbouring country with my 1 mil yuan. Also, I come from a small country so that option is quite simple.

    • CCCP

      It’s not like planes are the only way to travel. Back in my student days I went from Thailand to China and then from China to Europe without riding a single plane. I actually prefer land/sea transport to flying, but unfortunately unless one’s a student or otherwise has a really long vacation, there’s usually not enough time for such an adventurous route and you have no choice but to take the shortcut and fly to your destination.

  • Willie Nailer

    Try that on a U.S airline and 12 passengers will throw you to the floor, you’ll be tied up and go straight to jail when you land. We remember 9/11

    • YourSupremeCommander

      Not if the dude is a massive badass looking black dude… you will take that internet tuff guy shit back… QUICK!

  • Free Man

    “… doing things deserving of censure … ”

    LOL, need to say anything more?

  • Alex Dương

    Just because you, Guang Xiang, are Chinese does not make you “intellectually superior”. Of course, as a Chinese person, you believe that to be so — most do think that, it seems — but that’s just inferiority complex nonsense. Projection.

    quasi 50-centers like GX

    Actually, @guangxiang:disqus is Taiwanese. If you’d like for your comment to be deleted, please feel free to indicate so in a reply.

  • Alex Dương

    No problem. For future reference, maybe you shouldn’t assume that everyone who criticizes you is a Chinese national.

    • If I May

      I didn’t say that he was a Chinese national. I said that he was Chinese. The “local” reference is because he wacts like many of the mainlanders. Also, the fact that he’s from Taiwan makes it even sadder. One would expect a little better than that.

      • Alex Dương

        I didn’t say that he was a Chinese national. I said that he was Chinese.

        That just makes your post even more absurd than it already was, as your clarification implies that all Chinese people, even those not born or raised in China itself, are arrogant assholes.

        The “local” reference is because he wacts like many of the mainlanders.

        How does he act like a mainlander? By calling you out on your ignorance? Bravo to those mainlanders who actually do that to your face, then.

      • Kai

        Dude, you’re digging yourself into a deeper hole. The implications of what you’re saying is, “anyone who disagrees with me is likely mainland Chinese” and “Taiwanese people should automatically agree with me”.

        Why does a person’s nationality, race, or ethnicity have to have anything to do with what they think about your remarks? Why do you assume support from some very generalied groups of people versus others?

        It just betrays the fact that you harbor and clutch to certain biases and stereotypes. Instead of considering WHY someone might agree or disagree with you, you expect them to agree or disagree simply on the basis of some aspect of their identity? Come on, dude, think through this.

        Instead of drawing “us vs. them” lines, try to think about the actual objections and disagreements themselves.

  • Alex Dương

    No, the issue is that you expect me to treat you better than you treat me, and when I instead treat you the way you treat me, you start crying and throwing a temper tantrum. You don’t have to like me, but all you’re doing is showing that you’re no different from the “nongs” you thumb your nose at.

    • If I May

      You’re a liar. I feel lie simply linking to the conversation where you just went and fucked with me for no legitimate reason right off the bat, but why bother…

      Nong = uncultured, hick, or more specifically, “mainland white trash” (the latter made up by another poster). So no… I’m none of those.

      You just like to make trouble and you’re disrespectful to your “customers”, even if they gave you no real cause to be so, that’s all, and I got sick of it. Like I said, you’re a liability for this website. The site would be better without you. A replacement moderator in the style of Kai or Mr. Wiener, or others would make the site much more enjoyable.

      Lastly, if you were to fuck with me and lie about me face-to-face in the way that you have here and elsewhere on this site, I would have already pushed your nose into your brain long ago. I’m no coward or pussy, or “internet warrior. I just call a spade a spade, so fuck you and all your ancestors ’till the year dot.

      You (or another mod) can ban me now, if you like. Take pleasure doing so. You folks have done so at least three or four times in the past six years or so because cunts like you got a rise out of me. Congratulations. And if you have any spine, leave this post planted right here for all to see.

      • Alex Dương

        Since you obviously can’t leave on your own, I will be glad to help fulfill your request.

      • Rosemon Calvin Pilot

        So fuck you and all your ancestors ’till the year dot. LoL that’s COOLLD!

      • Kai

        It’s funny, I always humbly thought myself more unloved as a commenter than Alex is.

        It’s interesting that you voluntarily revealed that you’ve been banned before “at least three or four times”. Given that we’re extremely lenient about our comment policy, that would suggest you’ve crossed the line so much so many times that it would undermine the credibility of your complaints.

        Finally, given the amount of comments expressing criticisms and even malicious hate against cS (or those involved in it) that remain publicly visible on cS for anyone actually paying attention, it is dishonest of you to suggest we would delete your comment. Compounding this is the fact that you are posting as a guest without a registered Disqus account. All guest comments have to be manually approved before they appear on the site. If we have “the spine” to approve your comment so that it is public, we’d have the spine to leave it here.

        I get that you’re angry with Alex and your animosity is rising because he refuses to let you have your way and take your accusations lying down, but dude, I really think you need to take a step back, reflect on your own contributions to this situation, and take some mature ownership of them. If you have a valid complaint against Alex, don’t “why bother” it. That’s lazy and suggests you can’t produce a valid complaint. You’ve brought it up at least twice now, so go ahead and link to it so we can all evaluate it. Do that, instead of just trying to appeal to others who for some reason or another share your animosity against Alex. Let’s get at the truth instead of just hoping certain people will back you up regardless.

  • Jahar

    My last 2 flights in China were: Coming back from Thailand, on AirAsia, as soon as the plane lands, everyone started getting up. The Thai flight attendants were running around trying to get them to stop, looking like irritated kindergarten teachers. And The other, coming back from Korea on China Southern. I don’t know if they had just given up or just didn’t care, but when the plane landed, everyone started getting up, and the Chinese flight attendants did nothing.

  • Kai

    I find it hard to point a finger at @guangxiang:disqus and @haysoosnegro:disqus for “spoiling the website” when I see far worse examples of whatever you criticize them for committed by other people you don’t take issue with. If you were more consistent in criticizing specific behaviors or attitudes wherever they were found independent of who were behind them and who they were targeting, I’d be more swayed by your entreaty here. As it is, you don’t like it when others insult you or those you identify with, but you don’t say anything when it is done by those you identify with against people you don’t identify with. That’s a double-standard to me and not persuasive.

    Keep in mind also that you first went ad hominem on Alex (and also me). Why aren’t you “spoiling the website” when you did so but Guang Xiang is when he steps in to throw an ad hominem at you in response?

    Again, I don’t think you’re being objective.

    Guang Xiang never said he is intellectually superior to you because he is Chinese. That’s something you projected onto him entirely on your own. Apparently you have this prejudiced notion that “most” Chinese people think they are intellectually superior. Ironically, you accuse others of projection when it is you who is projecting.

    Your next paragraph is more speculation and projection.

    I obviously disagree with your impression and thus characterizations of Alex, Guang Xiang, and myself. You seem too willing to jump to the conclusion that people who disagree with you and go on to articulate their disagreements must be “apologists” or “50-centers”. That would be like me accusing you of being a “China basher” or like Chinese netizens accusing each other of being “50-centers” vs. “American running dogs”. There’s too much eagerness to simply label the other instead of actually humbly engage on the points in contention. It’s just ad hominem and well poisoning. I hope you see my point here.

    Also ironic is that you feel non-Chinese people are the ones being persecuted on cS, because a lot of Chinese people feel the exact same way in reverse. How can both be true? I think it is because people tend to remember the disagreeable and take for granted the agreeable.

    The complaints you have against certain moderators which I imagine includes Alex and me specifically are ones you can imagine I don’t agree with. I’ve seen Alex misinterpret people and I’ve even pointed that out to him publicly several times now. I don’t think he has ever been the first to make things personal in a disagreement. Please feel free to submit an argument showing otherwise that would prompt me to reconsider having him as a moderator. I believe his comment history is public for you to review and assemble an appeal.

    Otherwise, what you’re saying sounds like unfair accusations borne out of resentments over disagreements. Moreover, there’s the troubling aspect of double-standards. Do you really not see what could be considered “incessant nitpicking and ‘deconstructing’ (or outright distorting) of whatever [other people including Chinese netizens] say”? How come you don’t raise a fuss about that?

    The way I see it, there are such people who do such things on both/all “sides”. Sometimes their doing so is valid and sometimes it isn’t. Whether it is valid or not is left to discussion to decide. People have their observations and criticisms, and others can defend against them. That’s the nature of discussion, isn’t it? Why should one group of people or one type of sentiment (serious or trivial) be protected from disagreement (serious or trivial)? The only thing we want to protect against is simple dishonesty, aka trolling, where people are being inflammatory just to rile other people up for self-satisfaction. I do not see ANY of the moderators being guilty of this. When we express disagreements or criticisms, I think we’re being very earnest. We’re not being combatative for shits and giggles.

    On the issue of crowdfunding, my hope is that people will become patrons based on what they feel is the value our work and this site brings to them, and separate that from whether or not our work, the site, or those involved in it never publish or say anything you find disagreeable to your politics or sensitivities. I hope people can look beyond subjective differences and appreciate the objective value of what we try to do with chinaSMACK, which is to honestly cover and translate whatever is trending on the Chinese internet with Chinese netizens. If you can’t separate the two, as I understand many can’t, that’s fine. But it is my hope that people can see and support the bigger picture. The alternative is that we have to pander to people’s whims. Remember, we’re trying to maintain editorial independence, and that includes collectively publishing things you might dislike or individually disagreeing with you when we feel it is necessary.

    Will you support us for translating what’s trending or will you only support us if we also provide a forum that protects you from other people’s disagreement?

    I understand that’s a false choice fallacy but I’m trying to make a point about what you seem to be citing as the main reason you won’t become a patron and want others to follow you on: because there are people on cS who disagree with you and articulate their disagreements.

    I don’t think you can miss that I have voiced criticisms of you in this response, which you might find hard to stomach if you’ll stomach them at all. I hope you can also tell that I’m trying to be civil, fair, and also earnest in communicating this to you instead of being mean-spirited, indignant, or dismissive. I obviously do feel there are faults with your position, arguments, and feelings, but I hope you can take a step back or put yourself into another person’s shoes and consider if they might be valid. Ultimately, no one knows exactly what we’re thinking and feeling or all the contexts we’re operating in when expressing ourselves, so we’re all just trying our best to communicate through text.

  • Kai

    Dude, you really need to be careful with invoking popular support because you risk sounding like a kid on a playground trying to bully some other kid by saying “no one likes you”.

    Declaring it “true” only reinforces that impression.

    Can you link us to that “totally uncalled for reply a couple of months ago” so the rest of us can judge for ourselves?

  • Irvin

    They are unruly and therefore cannot be rule, to fight them is to court death.

  • Crimsonarmor

    This is exactly why everyone seems to hate Chinese abroad. Because of this dumb fact that they don’t realise that what they do not only affects them but all other Chinese. All foreigners will think 1 does it all of them must be like this.

  • Smith_90125

    Ah, but it was only embarrassing when they got caught and were arrested. When there were no consequences and nobody knew who they were, it was perfectly okay. That’s how confucianists think.

  • AiAi

    No comment.

  • Zappa Frank

    you didn’ even try to google it don’t you? i can help you:


    sorry to annouce chinese is not the oldest civilization

  • waterbear88

    typical china tourist

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