A sea of people at Shenzhen Convention Center, 150,000 converged here to find a job.
From NetEase:
Only by looking down from the observation platform of the Shenzhen Convention Center’s first hall can one understand what is called a sea of people. 150,000 university graduates coming from different areas throughout all of China nearly overwhelmed the Shenzhen Convention Center. Such a scene would have been difficult to imagine had I not seen it with my own eyes.
Full of confidence and setting out on an important step in life, as long as one has knowledge, has ability, and has guts, one will have one
Graduates from universities outside of the province converge on Shenzhen, 150,000 people compete for 20,000 employment positions.
Parked buses fill up a road near the Shenzhen Convention Center. Among them are many buses from other provinces [of China]. According to statistics, of the 150,000 graduates this time, over 70% are from universities outside of Guangdong province. Compared with last year’s job fair, this year’s attendance has reached new heights, but the number of employment positions available is still 20,000. Considering that many enterises are unable to recruit all the recent graduates they originally planned to, there are in reality less than 20,000 employment positions, causing the competition amongst graduate job-seekers to be even more intense.
Banking popular, securities and real estate cool.
At the scene of the job fair, the most crowded place was the finance area, and the most popular booths were bank recruiter booths. Despite suffering being pounded by the financial crisis, there was no drop in the banking industry’s popularity. Otherwise, the electronics industry, IT industry, and the logistics industry also received graduates’ attention. Although there were plenty of graduates choosing the securities and real estate industries, market conditions have already begun to cool.
After universities expanded enrollment numbers, finding a job has become even more difficult. The dense crowd of university student job-seekers look for a space/place to call their own.
Voluntarily reducing salary expectations and seeking suitable positions, graduates face the employment crisis.
From last year’s job fair, [demands like] “yearly salary 100,000 yuan” and “monthly salary must be 6000 yuan or higher” still ring in the ear. Last year’s science and engineering graduates nearly all requested monthly salaries of 5000 yuan and higher. This year, this kind of situation has already changed. Appropriately, more graduates were cool-headed and rational towards the employment situation, with most monthly salaries set around 3000-3500 yuan. Even more graduates were willing to accept around 2500 monthly salaries at the lowest. This price is positively “cheap”.
Submitting numerous resumes, throwing a net to catch fish.
Many graduates did not think this year’s job fair would be this packed. In order to get more opportunities, many graduates submitted numerous resumes, one day submitting 10 copies. Some girls wore off the heels of their high heels from running around. As a result of overexerting themselves, some university graduates needed their schoolmates to help them out of the convention center. Nowadays, finding a job really is not easy.
Interviews are an important step in the process of finding a job. Just a few words can more or less reveal a graduate's "level."
Comments on Sina:
Really is shocking/astounding! It is becoming more and more difficult for university studnets!
I hope the country can let 50-year-old women retire as well as 55-year-old men, and let all the children have jobs. Only by doing this can society be stable.
Housing prices in the long-term probably will not come down, with this many people. :-(
All of them are a bunch of SB. You think the company will give you 2500 yuan? What a joke. First three months of probation at the lowest wage standard. After probation is over, they directly show you the door, and then recruit someone else for a three month probationary employment, again at the lowest wage standard. This is what Shenzhen does to the year’s recent graduates. Maybe there are people who say it is not this way for all recent graduates. Yes, that is true, it is not everyone. It will not be that way for those with connections or background. Understand? That is why it is said that the problem with society is not about ability but about connections!!!
Actually, it is the same everywhere! As long as one has true ability, why come to Shenzhen, this spirit-less, soul-less place?
Who can still say that China does not have human talent?!! Over a billion people, who knows what we will do in the future with that many people wanting jobs, with that many people not wanting to become workers, and with that many people leaving home to find jobs, because they cannot even farm successfully, ai! I only have sighs. Look at how developed America is, yet with so little people, even they still face employment-related problems. Then turn around and look at our own country. It is truly worrisome!!!
This kind of sea of people makes me tried just by watching. Graduating means unemployment. Life is not easy!
I also graduated this year, finding a job is too difficult!
Well done, only this way can inspire them, wish them all can find suitable jobs. At the same time, I despise those youth who loaf around, never do a day’s worth of honest work, and are burdens upon their parents.
So terrifying. Chinese people really know how to make babies, making this many people in just a short period. Are they all having sex at night, with nothing else to do but to make children?
One year, one Hong Kong. [meaning that the number of graduates per year is like the entire population of Hong Kong.]
Comments on NetEase:
Wow,
So many people.
Hehe,
The people selling food there that day must have gotten rich.
I also experienced that when I graduated. That day there was a small rain, and I was both cold and hungry.
What a magnificent/amazing scene…
This is true competition!~
Finding a job is hard. Recruiting workers is even more difficult. Because the vast majority of graduates are all unfit for a higher position and unwilling to accept a lower one.
Even though our company is nothing special, I plan on staying for awhile, because of the financial crisis. If it is not reduced salaries, then it is layoffs. It is not easy to have a job.
Ah. I submitted resume/CVs an entire morning, and left in the afternoon. If I stayed longer, my heart would have collapsed~
It is like the train crowds during Chinese New Year.
Seeing these I am reminded of all the Chinese New Year crowds at train stations. That sight is still fresh in my memory.
Comments on KDS:
The guy lying in the crystal display coffin needs to take responsibility. [referring to Mao]
Good thing they did not come to Shanghai…
Why is it all white clothes??
I bet it is because they want to be white-collar workers.
My god, is Shanghai’s metro [subway] going to explode next year?
How do they go to the restrooms?
Pictures from N years ago used yet again.
“Yun,” Chinese people are numerous.
Nearly every booth had masses and crowds of people.
See more posts about young Chinese and finding work:
- Future Police Officers Sleep In Politics Class
- 264 Hubei Students Denied Bachelor Degrees
- Young Shanghainese Shocked by Low Wages and Probation Period
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Mummies Dancing In Wuhan For Employment 
New Year Goals: Find Job, Find Husband, Oh Yeah! 
1,300 Graduate Students Compete to Sell Pork 
Child Begger Girl Clings To Passing Pedestrians In Shenzhen 
Young Deaf Girl On Her Knees, Begs Recruiter For Job 
I been to one of these, once you are in, you don’t control where you go, instead, you get pushed to random location, one needs to study the flow pattern of the crowd before entering.
With odds like that…
“Looking for a female assistant. Must be good looking, at least 1.6m tall, and a virgin.
Women unwilling to put out, or wear skirts without panties underneath need not apply.
Due to the large number of applicants for this position we will only contact short-listed candidates.”
I spend a day at one of those fair once and people thought I was here to hire people…(I was just the friend of a friend of one of the recruiter).
You can imagine the good laugh I had!!
That picture is like “Where is Waldo”. I would hire the guy in the orange shirt. That guy thinks outside the box!
I see massive unemployment.
I see dead peo….I mean, dumb people.
They are really ridiculous. They are all wearing white shirts…did their dorky parents dress them? I am only taking resumes from that fair …if you have a different color shirt on. JUst on principle…PROLES!!!!
Well, you know how Chinese people are about being identical and fitting in and NOT being interesting or unique in any way possible.
I do see one orange shirt in one picture :D
Can’t really blame them for all wearing white, though. Chinese students are not taught to think like individuals. I’d even say it’s discouraged. The nails that stick out would be hammered down.
The second Sina poster is such an idiot to suggest 50 year old women and 55 year old men retire. Even if they do retire en masse, do we young people really have the experience to just take right over with no problems? I really doubt it. Also, women tend to live longer, so by all logic women ought to work longer. Otherwise there’ll be a lot of older women relying on the public for money for a long time.
Clearly China’s birth control measures are not effective enough. It’s no good trying to fine people into having fewer children. Come on, put that propaganda machine to good use and hammer it into people’s hearts and minds that not having children is the best. ;)
Notice how its so cock-heavy?
Wonder what all the female graduates do? Knitting at home?
Man, that’s crazy. Looking at that just makes me depressed (about my own situation.)
That’s crazy. More the important for China to find new ways of wealth generation.
@Peter Yang,
That’s very interesting! Crowds are like fluids. They can even have turbulence. Anyways, about the crowd, I think we can make a “game” out of this, modeling the crowd using continuum mechanics with the booth “interviewing” acting as some sort of boundary condition. Or just use agent based modeling. What would be the objective? Surf the crowd?
10 resume giving out in a day is really not impressive. I sent out mine 15+ copies to 9 companies in less than an hour in a recent job fair :) A senior staff in Freescale(Motorola) told me honestly that they are cutting their research team. You should know that shrinking R&D department is an apparent sign of economic regression in many industries especially in semiconductor industry.
The picture truly conveys the meaning of the phrase 人山人海.
Mountain of people, Sea of people?
People-Mountain-People-Sea/Ocean
Whose fault? An overcrowded, terrible country! Everybody gets a degree!
@Camela RE: “birth control measures”
I don’t think the issue is so much with birth control measures not working as much as it is with striking the balance between education and industry, which at this point is an enormous challenge. It’s about scalability – population is fine, as long as the infrastructure exists in which to support the people, hopefully that will be built up in the next few decades…but for these kids, well, so many dreams will come crashing down – both from kids taught they are the center of their family-universe, and from parents who invest everything they have into their only children.
You’re right on target with the retirement thing – in fact some people in the west are campaigning against 65 as a standard retirement age. As general health improves and lifespans lengthen, we have old people doing nothing for 20 or 30 years of which many are still physically fit and interested in working. A simple solution would be to enact a Geneva Convention rule which raises the minimum age for serving in the military to 60 for all countries *coughs*. Imagine world-wars fought with grandparents instead of working-age youth? I imagine the battles wouldn’t last too long, everyone would be preoccupied with napping and peeing.
It is a rats race. All economists agree that China needs to grow at 8% or more to provide jobs for millions of its graduates and migrants from the countryside. Its a battle for jobs, careers and future.
Rick, I can see it now- U.N mandate 666: After nation loses battle with senior troops (i.e. 90% casualty rate), the losing nation must setup the following machinery to facilitate surrender:
a) Machine shall be a cube.
b) At least 1000 3 by 1 meter entrance.
c) Upon entering the facility, a person shall be randomly beamed (technology provided by our Reptilian Overlords) a 3 x 3 meter cube room.
d) The room shall implement the following (with further future requirements addendum to be provided by the Overlords):
d.1) Meat compactor. Instantly crushing occupant (power level at discretion of implementor, as long as it satisfies the requirement of death.)
d.2) Meat grinder. Shall grinds occupant to mince meat.
d.3) Electrocution. Must electrocute occupant to death.
Upon surrendering of losing nation. All citizens of said nation MUST report to one of the above mentioned Cube facilities. Failure to do so shall incur instant gamma-ray bombartment by The Overlords from orbit.
Corrections:
After losing a battle. A national lottery shall randomly pick n healthy non-senior (remember now, seniors are all at battle) citizen to be processed by the Cube. Where n is equal to the number of dead senior troops.
What I really don’t understand is the word-”unemployed”. Those students have the choice for not being unemployed if they are willing to change their thought while hunting for a job. When I first came back to China after studied 5 years in oversea, I prepared for the worst-cleaning toilet in KFC. Well, I never got around that but I started working for a small small company in Beijing who accepted me after first interview and also this is the first company I applied. Working there for less than one year, got to know some people in big companies through working. They called me one day asking if I am interested in a position in their company. I accepted. If I applied for the big company when I first started looking for a job. I really doubt it if they would accept me. Instead of hunting for the dream job and get turn down again and again, why don’t lower your head and gathering working experience in small companies. Be happy wherever you are, if you are really good at what you are doing, someone will see your shine.
What I hear about jobs in China is that it’s relatively plenty as long as you don’t expect to strike gold. I was told master degree “sea turtles” are dime a dozen these days so don’t expect much unless you are superman with mucho experiences oversea. I want to travel to China for the experience (adventure) but I will have to stay in the U.S. for a couple of more years to save before I can go on my wild adventures.. Hehe.
One major problem with employment in China is that students have high expectations over very short time periods. This will end up ‘raising’ them right out of a job – right now, there is a high demand (well, talking about a few months ago…pre crisis, it’s slowing significantly now) for skilled employees..the problem is most aren’t really skilled, but since labor is still relatively cheap it’s worth trying a few and weeding out the best. The good employees expect 20-30% YOY increases in salary. This is fine at the beginning post probation, but 2-3 years in, it becomes financially no longer beneficial to have their still-new salaries raise to close-to-domestic (speaking from US/Euro perspective) when equating in additional costs of overseas employment. During times of high demand companies will suck it up, but the employees who continue to have really high expectation and quick increases will end up increasing their way right out of a job – as well as out of future jobs – it’s a much higher risk to hire someone with 2 years experience whose salary expectation is twice that of what a new-market employee costs considering all the pit-falls of a new employee and potential bullshit factor during interviews and such.
@Camela,
Get off your high horse. Your individuality doesn’t buy you any advantages for the jobs of the future. I work in the Silicon Valley, and there is a sizable population of Chinese professionals here, all highly paid (roughly 2-3x compared to average US salary). Native-born American cannot do the job, because #1 they don’t have the advanced degrees, #2 they lack the critical thinking skills necessary for the jobs in the Silicon Valley. There is a lot to criticize about the education system in China, but I will take a Tsingha graduate over MIT/Harvard graduate ANY DAY!
“Looking for a female assistant. Must be good looking, at least 1.6m tall, and a virgin.
Women unwilling to put out, or wear skirts without panties underneath need not apply.
”
So you’re looking for a slutty virgin?
Considering the growing annual rate of cancer related deaths here in China from smoking and pollution, especially among men, male college graduates from non-smoking families in cleaner cities should be the most competetive.
bob: If you take a Tsinghua (sic) graduate over a Harvard one, it only shows you are wearing rosy glasses. Take them off, and welcome you to the REAL WORLD. Chinese education is “interesting”, that’s the fairest comment one who knows it, can make about it. It is true that there are SOME Asians working in the IT sector, but that scientifically (statistically) doesn’t mean a thing. There is absolutely no correlation between their abilities and the jobs they end up in. (In other words: if they wouldn’t be there, they could be replaced by equally qualified non-Asians without quality loss.)…
bob: One more thing… you say “Americans” (whoever you are referring to) “lack” critical thinking skills? I was laughing on the floor when reading this… the notion “critical thinking” originates from the West, my friend. Also, your referral to “native Americans” is very similar to the “laowai” concept I hear in China all the time (”we Chinese” (women zhongguoren), and the rest of the world en bloc called “foreigners” (tamen waiguoren), even when e.g. a Chinese person is in America, calls the NATIVES “foreigners” (the people who OWN their own land, and the Chinese person is a GUEST there at best). One hardly knows what to do, get angry or just laught at such level of “surrealism” (was I subtle)? :-) The reality is, my (probably Chinese native) friend: both in absolute and relative numbers there are 1) more “advanced degree” holders and 2) more people able to demonstrate “critical thinking” skills in the West (take even just a tiny little country like Austria, not to mention the almighty USA) than your reference point China. I witnessed quite a lot of vague rhetoric, propaganda and other BS in China, that’s true. People there talk in DREAMS, rather than real fact. I prefer hard facts :-)
It is true that the central government in China _pretends_ to value education a lot, but sorry to say “too little, too late”. See Japan, USA, Europe, even Eastern Europe: those folks realized HUNDREDS of years ago that education and societal reforms are important, and THAT IS THE REASON why you see some lucky Asians getting jobs in Silicon Valley.
Just to put proportions right :-) I don’t like when people come up with dreams instead of arguments (that hold water), to play down the significance of Western education and know-how. Somehow it’s unfair. If you happen to be an Asian in Silicon Valley, try to think of yourself as an AMERICAN and not an Asian. You are not Asian anymore. If you go back to China and work there, THEN you can say you are an Asian. As long as you benefit from the welfare of the USA, you are an American :-) Your origins in this context are irrelevant.
Western education still rocks, and hope people will learn to respect this fact.
Benoe is the man.
@benoe, agreed…America is still the best place for people with talent, ambition and capacity for hard work to “make it”. No where else comes close.
Yeah, I also thought that Bob’s comments were ignorant. Having studied with many the so called “westerners” whom are all very, very intelligent, I’d say scarily intelligent, lol. But with that said, I would not be so dismissive of Chinese’s education system, but, I suppose you can argue about the true merit of that system on the ground of rote memorization and straight-up raw effort. (I will give some examples later, but could it also be a generalization?) A major problem I see is with the general anti-intellectualism in the U.S. Sure, you always will have the smart kids (that is, usually rank #1 or #2 at some high school, along with a bunch of Asian kid), but today’s American culture do not value academic achievements as much as say sports and the worship of money. Do you not think this is scary? Really, compare kids in the 60’s with today’s kid (sure, this seems doom and gloom – the kids are f***ed -sky is falling line that’s been toted since Plato’s days.) And also, do not belittle the contribution of foreign born academics and researchers that helps the U.S. to achieve the ultimate technology edge on planet earth (I mean Russians, Europeans, Indians, and East Asians.)
Anyways, don’t make the generalization by saying that Chinese (I’m Chinese American) in America always call others “Foreigners.” That’s not correct. Chinese here uses the term “Lao Mei” (NOT LAO WAI)- Literally “Old American”- to refer to others. As they would call other Chinese “Lao Zhong,” (although you don’t hear this often) literally “Old Chinese.” It’s the colloquial term that people use. Do some use the world “Laowai?” I’m sure some do. But don’t make generalizations. Personally I think it’s stupid, but we’re stuck with it.
I also mentioned some about some examples, okay, here it is:
http://cm2prod.baylor.edu/ICPCWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=History#section-History-Champions
Of course, you can argue that the reason Russian, and Chinese teams do so well is because they prepare like crazy… Probably some truth in that.
Oh what is my point. Really, I don’t even know why I’m arguing with you. I agree with you that the above poster was ignorant. Damn, I guess stupid pride thing got better of me. I’m American!!! I should really not give a damn about what the Chinese does.
My other point being: I don’t think your argument of “too little, too late” holds much weight. So what if they’re late? As long as they keep on trying, and keep on improving, then what is the problem.
Damnit, I hate this, man. I hate arguing about this crap because it’s reeks of nationalism/regionalism/racisim… Arghh, it’s stupid.
However, I feel the need to defend and being apologetic because some of you commenter have this biased views towards China (I feel), that I think is unjustified. With that said, some of the points you guys bring up are valid, and it would serve best for the Chinese to study them.
Arghh blah blah, blah blah. I’m sick of this. Unbalanced conflict of interest much bud?
Western guys are kings when they go to China, because they are drowned in a sea of beautiful chinese girls. This can only happen because China is overflowed with people, more workers than jobs, and men have first dibbs in most skilled jobs. If opportunities are abundant for Chinese people, then it wouldn’t be fun for a western guy living in China, because the chinese girls would ignore us. So while western guys wish the best of luck to the 150,000 chinese students looking for jobs in Shenzhen, it’s not so clear that we really want the status quo to change anytime soon. We want to remain kings.
Whatever John. Getting attention is something that you can do anywhere…if you are an attention getter.
Being used (whether under mistaken notions of wealth or not) is something that DORKS of all races and colors can expect in any country.
Now go enjoy your attention. BTW, you;’re obviously not in Shanghai…you’re likely in some backwater where any white guy gets lovin from some welcome mat “I heart laowais” cutie with hairy armpits.
Yes, it is so much fun in China, because as a laowai, I am king to the girls everywhere I go, it’s amazing! In the US, I am nothing to most girls, no attention at all, but one step of the plane in China and I am in heaven.
@John, I trump you, I’m an investment banker who can speak Chinese and English fluently, I wouldn’t use it though because it’s dangerous, you know what the girls are after…
YES!!! We should pin medals on these girls! Hell, I have been trying to convience many intelligent, and rich Americans to move to China (at least for a couple of years), in order to stir up the gene pool. Through-out history the migration of humans have done a lot of good to the area where they migrated to. So, I’m all for this! It can only help the Chinese people! We definitely need to inject some of that Usian Bolt and Michael Phelps magic.
But sadly, I’m afraid all I see is bald and fat losers trying to stick their retardation everywhere. But that’s life. Oh well.
@TahwYOJ, ahahahahahaha, that’s hilarious, there a lot of loser type Americans who come to China to “teach” English…though they barely finished high school or whatever shitty community college they went to…
Hey don’t knock English teachers, cuz we get the youngest girls (18, 19, 20). You guys are putting up with stuck up, snobbish chinese girls, while we get the submissive, innocent gems.
hahahah, but John, one strategic phone call and you’re deported from China, it’s really easy, especially since as some random teacher, you’re pretty much unprotected, nobody cares if a teacher is gone, there are plenty to take your spot. But be careful, they may seem submissive, but one internet posting and human flesh search engine, you’d be toast!
deals in the fair are just simple: job seeker submitting Resumes, recruiter collecting Resumes, when the deal is done, it is done.
SniperWZ, what a nice society, what a beautiful culture, where people spy on each other and report each other to the authorities/police, right? Lovely. That’s why so many people line up here in the West, they can’t wait to immigrate to China and become one of those “good citizens”, and can’t wait to watch, spy on, critize, report, torture each other so that nobody gets a little more than the others :-) Go on, make a phonecall, post a complaint about the entire Western world, and ask the Chinese Police to catch each and every one of us, freedom-lover laowais and deport us all from your nice culture so we cannot enjoy being spied on, being reported by jealous sniperWZs, etc. And then, you will achieve your dream: a laowai-free, racially 100% intact society, where everyone thinks the same, talks the same, walks the same… and if not, jailed, executed, deported… how idyllic! Can’t wait to be there… heaven on earth, right? :-)
In one of your soberer moments please re-read your postings next time empathetically putting yourself in OTHER PEOPLE’s shoes and imagining how it feels… Imagine you are a Chinese guy in America, and an American would write the same things about you… that Americans are spying on you, and if you dare to date an American girl, they will report you to the police and you will be deported out of the country. Good feeling, huh? If not, pls refrain in the future from such clearly racially motivated threats :-)
Welcome to the FREE world, little boy. Grow up and learn to respect other people’s privacy. It’s John’s PERSONAL (=private) matter whom he is willing to screw, you (=SniperWZ) have absolutely no right to interfere with his life. Keep that in mind, and trust me you will also feel better. More human. :-)
hahahahahaha, really benoe? Did I somehow set you off with my earlier response? You seem to have a some sort of complex or hidden fear that I triggered, responding like Pavlov’s dog!
I am a Chinese-American in the U.S., and I’m U.S. citizen, so sorry, can’t deport me.
Racially motivated threats? Did you somehow insert your own thoughts and fears into what I actually wrote? And really, you take something written anonymously online that seriously? Don’t worry, I’ll ignore you.
Also, don’t overstay your visa…
SniperWZ, if you are _really_ a U.S. citizen, then pls try to live up to that ideal. Look around you: normal U.S. citizens don’t report fellow Americans to the Chinese police. If you think it’s “hao wan” to even threaten John with such ideas, you are a shame to America. The country that you claim to be a citizen of respects human rights, and it is John’s right to spend any night with any girl he pleases. So your “reporting” comment was highly immoral, unethical, and simply un-American. Double disgusting that you immigrate to a free country and then from the protection of our system you threaten to report others in China. Simply disgusting what you wrote, and the personality you attempt to portray here. Sorry, but that’s my opinion about this kind of behavior that you just represented.
And YES, racially motivated what you wrote: if John would happen to be Chinese, you wouldn’t even think to “report” him, right? Coward. Anyway, you may be a good person, but what you wrote, and your second reply shows severe deficits in the ethical department…
I don’t expect a reply from you, because you said you would ignore me. Would you still reply, then add to the list of bad character a new phenomenon: “inconsistency”. :-) However, I wonder how many people (=people, not “Americans” or “Chinese”) agree with my point that reporting Johns to Chinese authorities is immoral, disgusting, and even mentioning this idea on online forums shows bad character? :-)
hahahahah, this is hysterical!!!! benoe, are you some sort of caricature?
@Benoe:
What does “hao wan” mean?
Also, SniperWZ did not say that he intended to report anyone.
Instead I think the comment “they may seem submissive, one internet posting and human flesh search engine” meant that if the girl didn’t get the grade she “deserved” for her “efforts”, or if she just decided to show off her “laowai” boyfriend on Liba, it could come back to bite John in the ass.
“Hao wan” means “fun”. Quite many people are infantile in Asia (in general), they consider almost everything a game :-)
You can judge from SniperWZ’s replies if he was just talking “generally” (but then why talking? we all know China is the country of “one billion Chinese, two billion eyes”), or would s/he him/herself volunteer to be a beagle.
Anyway, just wanted to express my personal disgust at such comments, that’s all. :-)
@benoe, how did you get so convoluted in your manner of speech?
Only a racist and an intellectual midget like yourself would make a universal statement that many people in Asia are “infantile”.
Lao means Old, while Wai means foreigner. Sure, we treasure youth and many people won’t like to be called OLD. But in the Chinese language, Lao is being used with respect.
So, if you are older than a Chinese, he might address you as Lao Xiong (Older Brother). If you are not a Chinese national, he will call you Laowai, meaning Old Foreigner. Lao Mei (Old American) Lao Zhong (Old Chinese) are both used with respect. Women call their husbands Lao Gong, while the men call their wives Lao Po.
So, next time someone calls you Laowai, do take it as a really warm, friendly and respectful greeting which deserves an equally friendly and warm reply, in the English vocabulary of your choice.
I hope that my sharing of my limited knowledge of Chinese helps….
Hao means Good, while Wan means Play. However, it should not be rigidly translated and interpreted as meaning Good Play or Fun. It actually is a Chinese slang word, to simply say that we like something, when we can’t think of any other way to say it.
The closest English slang word for Haowan would be Cool, as used by English-speaking youths to say that they like the latest hair-do, wrist-watch, sport shoes, whatever, whatever…
SniperWZ, I am patiently waiting for your arguments to refute my assertion. If none, I consider my assertion to hold. If you get tired of intellectual argumentation with people whom you label “midgets” without even know who they really are, maybe time to make that “strategic call” and get rid of them in one of your so-beloved ways.
Smickno: you are right with the meaning of the words itself, however, don’t forget the context. Most of the time these words are uttered between Chinese people at the mere recognition of the fact that a supposedly non-Chinese face (=”not one of us”, “alien”, “foreign”, etc) has entered their visual domain. First of all, it shows low intelligence to utter words every time you make a premature extrapolation based on unsatisfactory evidence (e.g. saying “laowai” when you see a seemingly non-Asian face _may_ be right, but how about those Chinese people who don’t look like the rest?). Second, what is one supposed to achieve by stating the fact that a possibly not-one-of-us person has approached one? I don’t see any potentially positive outcome for that person (about whom some locals attempt to make premature judgements without knowing the real background of that non-Asian face). According to my philosophy, if you cannot do something good to others, you should rather refrain from doing anything related to others. Better stay for yourself, think more, and try to understand the world around you.
In this respect saying the worlds “laowai” every time Chinese people think they see someone who they think has a high percentage probability being non-Chinese does not constitute a friendly gesture to me at all (regardless of the sometimes positive connotations of the word “laowai”).
@Benoe, Smickno:
Thank you.
@Benoe
people whom you label “midgets” without even know who they really are
He wasn’t saying you were physically short. “Intellectual midget” means small-minded. I’m not saying he’s not being insulting, either way. Just saying…
Jayman: hairsplitting for fun? :-) I would prefer you contributing something meaningful rather than unessential.
Benoe:
Well, I think these generalizations are stupid. But let’s turn the discussion around a bit and consider what people in other country may do. Say, in America. How would you refer to me, an East Asian looking person? Some would say, the Chinese dude. Or, that Japanese dude. Or, that Korean. My point is that this is a some what normative label that people use to label a group of people, that looks a certain way. Or they can simply refer to me as a foreigner, which in America is un-pc.
So in China, instead of Chinese, or Japanese, they use Lao-wai. Which of course, is not PC by American standards. By should we judge the Chinese on Western values? Should Chinese people be PC according to western values? Or put it another way, is calling other people “old foreigner” “universally” UN-PC? Is this a moral relativism question? I’m don’t know much about aruguing these philosophical questions which is why I try my best to stay away for it as far as possible.
Personally I hope this will change, instead of Lao-wai people should just refer to every white dude as Lao-mei (old American).
If I wanted I can turn the table and say why does Americans always insist on asking me where I’m from. I tell them I’m from such and such a place. It’s always no, where are you REALLY from. Hehe. See, I don’t get into it deep, you kow what I’m saying? It’s a cultural thing, which I have no problem with. You can either be a glasses half empty or a half full guy. Stop tripping about it!!! And just enjoy life, man!
@jayman, thanks for your attempt (albeit fruitless) to explain a simple concept to a simpleton, yet for your efforts, benoe accused you of “hairsplitting”?? hahahaha, that’s amazing!
@benoe, it doesn’t take a Phi Beta Kappa member to understand a fundamental rule in logical reasoning is that you can’t prove a negative. So technically speaking, I don’t need to disprove your statement, because logical fallacies merely require one to point it out. But this probably goes over your head, so someone with special ed teaching experience may need to help me out…
Also, thanks for confirming for everyone that you’re a racist, I’m patiently waiting for your refutal to that claim, until then, my assertion holds (hahahahaha, subtract one point if you did not spot the sarcasm or irony).
I have concluded you’re either a “special” 14 year old with limited intellectual abilities or rather similarly, a failed anthropology major, so which one is it? (Give yourself one bonus point if you can name the logical error in this statement, haahahaha).
More gem quotes from benoe, others are welcome to name others:
“Quite many people are infantile in Asia (in general)” – obviously an anecdotal comment with no data cited or backed up by any evidence,
“it shows low intelligence…every time you make a premature extrapolation based on unsatisfactory evidence”- touche, benoe, touche…
By the way, benoe, you’re still a laowai in China…
@ Benoe and Sniper WZ
I was just reading the posts and I think I see a simple misunderstanding here that’s maybe worthwhile to point out.
SniperWZ’s original comment was about the Chinese girl/Western guy thing. Given the context of the messages around him, I’m going to assume his comment of
“one strategic phone call and you’re deported from China, it’s really easy, especially since as some random teacher, you’re pretty much unprotected, nobody cares if a teacher is gone, there are plenty to take your spot. But be careful, they may seem submissive, but one internet posting and human flesh search engine, you’d be toast!”
was meant in humourous way. Especially the last part Benoe, which I think you missed. What I got out of this was that he was making a joke about the fact that although the Chinese girl may seem innocent and submissive, but if you miss them off and break up with them, they call the cops on you and get you deported (because you as a “teacher” in China are probably here illegally somehow). In no way did I feel like he was he making threats to anyone that he would call the cops and have them deported. It was all just fun and games Benoe, and now it’s gotten out of hand into some childish back and forth.
oops, should be “piss them off” not “miss them off”…
@Fuller, you mean to say benoe misunderstands people and can’t read well enough to grasp concepts such as irony or sarcasm??? Hhaahahaha, I couldn’t tell!! I thought he was just slow like a 3 legged donkey!
Let me explain again.
Lao = Old
Wai = a short form for Wai Guo Ren = a person from another country.
In the long form, it would Lao waiguoren
Therefore, as long as you are not a Chinese national, you are a laowai. This would include Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Myammese…and even nationals of all countries of Chinese descent (except China)
In France, just for an example, the French can also call anyone who is not a frenchman a laowai, and that includes a Chinese. It is not derogatory, but just a term in the Chinese vocabulary.
The context it is sometimes being used among Chinese should not be confused with the pure meaning of the word. For instance, if some Middle Eastern people were to remark: those Americans are @#$%, whatever that is, it does not make the word American per se derogatory, even if the remark about Americans can be quite unflattering.
Oh man, there is such an abundance of incorrectness in these comments it’s too daunting of a task to take on.
@Rick, please give it a try, please.
@smickno…I applaud your patience for the sake of educating benoe, who is quite “special”. No need to waste more effort though, benoe’s 很笨, 很糊涂…
This is my last posting here, as contrary to some, I am neither laowai, nor in China, definitely not an English teacher in China, and most importantly: have BETTER things to do. I do work in education though, that’s why I thought I may brighten up some minds while warning SniperWZ not to insult others (he did and does, that’s why I am outta here).
Just to sum it up: it’s sad to see that nobody seemed to grasp the point I was/am trying to make. Let me finally summarize it again, and I will rest it there, you may react to it the way you like, but I won’t read it or reflect on it, keep it in mind (to save your gas if your only purpose is to insult).
1. Some of you may not have perceived SniperWZ’s earlier comments as “threats” (the latter ones were pure insults, without any scientific value), however, I, with decades of relevant experience perceived it as such (what’s more, I am convinced that it’s not only my perception, it’s a statistically proven fact, at least only my own observations amount to statistically relevant sampling). You may find it “interesting”, but unless you have a similarly thorough experience with the country (China) as I do, it’s unlikely that I will learn from you. I only learn from people MORE experienced than me. I expect the less experienced to listen, take notes, and learn. It is indeed a typical character in that part of the world to spy on others, report and even deport them. If you think it’s “fun” only, it may be because of the limited nature of your China-experience. Keep in mind that these deportations are not publicized, they happen “behind the curtains”. Sure it happens elsewhere too (in the US, too), but in Asia it’s dominant. You can’t possibly make me change my mind, after having lived there and seen these things happening with my own eyes on a monthly basis. SniperWZ’s comments are sadly perfect representations of the dark side of China. I am somewhat surprised that Americans don’t feel that “there is something wrong” with comments like that. I only know that comments like would be absolutely unacceptable (and even illegal) in Europe. Also, to be honest, SniperWZ does not sound like an American. He may claim to be one, but his words defy him. In any case, my suggestion is to re-visit the Constitution and just look around in the indigenous American population, how many of them give hints to report fellow American English teachers to Chinese authorities for dating Chinese girls. Somehow in dissonance to my eyes, that’s what prompted me to write.
2. Re the laowai denomination, again not one soul managed to see what I was trying to say (although I think I explained in detail). OK, here comes a down-to-earth example, maybe it lights up some bulbs in some minds: imagine you are a whatever person in a whatever country. You got used to see the same faces every day. Your mind makes a pattern, associating similarly looking people with “one of us”, and non-similarly looking people as “not one of us”. OK, so one day you look around and visually state the fact that one of the faces that you see around you is dissimilar with your “pattern”. This makes you jump to the conclusion that “this person is not one of us” (hence a “foreigner”, “laowai”, or whatever you like to call this phenomenon in your language). OK. This happens in quite many in the IQ 100 plus/minus 20 (thus average) population. Now, what I was/am trying to tell you folks, is that if you keep this genius “conclusion” of yours (ie. “this person is definitely a foreigner”) to yourself and keep silent, you are better off, than opening your mouth, resonating your voicecords and uttering the words “foreigner” into the air around you. These soundbytes may reach the ears of people around you, and if you are lucky, they are in the same IQ class, and won’t notice a thing, because their limited brains interpret the same thing the same way. However, the day may come when an intelligent person is within your radius and would educate you, hearing your “foreigner” comment: “My dear friend. Just because this person does not look like us, s/he can equally well be one of us. It is quite possible that this person was born here, and all his or her ancestors are also “one of us”. It is PREMATURE to judge someone by his exteriors.” I personally know white skinned, blonde, blue-eyed CHINESE nationals IN CHINA. Imagine their frustration to be stamped as a “foreigner” in their motherland during their entire life, just because of the ignorance, lack of education and lack of logical reasoning skills of a billion-strong population.
That’s all I was attempting to contribute here, but apparently some people with testosterone-hormon surpluses mis-interpreted them as red flags for flame (which they weren’t). I leave you all with figuring out what I was really saying, and see if you understand my point or not. If you do, you do yourself a favor and join the club of civilized, intelligent people on Planet Earth (see? no countries here, it’s only one of the planets in the Solar System). If not, well, life is long (hopefully), keep improving :-)
TahwYOJ: I would prefer people being wise and not labeling each other every time they THINK they know something. E.g. calling the newly elected President of the United States a “black”, “African-American”, etc President shows two big problems. First, Barack Hussein Obama is 50% black, 50% white, so he could equally well be called “white” President. The choice of “black” is an error here. Second, as far as I know (but correct me someone if I am wrong) the United States is about eliminating racism. Talking about skin color, nationality, religious beliefs, etc is clearly racially motivated, hence unconstitutional. I wonder how those media machines can get away with daily referring to President Obama as a “black” person. First of all, he isn’t (entirely), second, even if he were, SO WHAT? WHO CARES? You don’t govern a country with your skin pigments, rather with your BRAIN. It simply DOES NOT MATTER how a President (of any country, for that matter, not only the USA) looks like. Talking about it shows low levels of intelligence.
SAME comment for calling people “foreigners”, just because their faces are not recognized immediately.
By the way, don’t think that only American as “where are you from” as one of the first questions, right after “hello”. Chinese do EXACTLY the same. First a “chi fan le mei you” (confirming that the stomachs are full), and right after that “ni shi na li ren” (where are you from?). Looks like a general phenomenon in some parts of the world. I can tell you a good news: if you don’t like that, welcome to Europe. Europeans are statistically better educated, and seldom, if ever ask someome where they are from (we leave it to everyone themselves to decide to reveal that piece of information or not).
So many people, and until now I really really seldom find a chinese with a nice resume. So hard competition and they still do not get the important to spend time on a nice resume with a nice presentation, and with really think carefully wording to be as short as possible but still give the important information.
@benoe, I’m nearly speechless after reading what is one of the most long winded yet meaningness piece of garbage ever written, your “decades of experience” means nothing, since you are clearly clueless on almost everything you commented. The only thing I learned from you is that you’re a long winded, pedantic idiot who probably never succeeded at much anything other than churning out “scholarly” pedagogical articles in some obscure journal read by no one.
More benoes (henceforth, “benoes” will be a new term meaning dumb, idiotic quotes) below:
“Talking about skin color, nationality, religious beliefs, etc is clearly racially motivated, hence unconstitutional.”
- hahahahahahahah, name the article in the Bill of Rights or any Constitutional Amendments thereof that support your statement…talking about nationality and religious beliefs are also “racially” motivated???? You are clearly not even aware of what’s going on in the United States (much less China, for that matter), African Americans are rejoicing for the election of Obama and yes, they see Obama as black, as one of them, and that’s how most people in the U.S. view Obama as well; if you have even remote knowledge or experience in the U.S., you would be aware that in popular culture, rightly or wrongly, people are referred to as black or African American if they are half or even sometimes quarter black (think Beyonce, but you probably have no clue).
Good riddance, benoe you laowai, and stay in Old Europe.
@Benoe
hairsplitting for fun? :-) I would prefer you contributing something meaningful rather than unessential.
I’m sorry if I offended you. I did not point out that error to make you feel bad or to mock you for your lack of understanding. And I certainly wasn’t telling you how to feel. I just wanted you to be upset for the right reasons.
But I do find it interesting that you call me out for not adding anything meaningful, despite my initial post where I did try to change the scope of the proceedings.
And you go on to say that anyone who does not share your views or your experiences is incapable of changing your mind, anyway.
We call that “prejudice.”
On that basis, I was going to ignore the other misjudgments in your statements but I finally decided that there may be other readers who would like to know where (I think) you’ve made mistakes.
I am somewhat surprised that Americans don’t feel that “there is something wrong” with comments like that.
In America, we say “I may not agree with what you’ve said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” We don’t place a lot of value in talk. Anyone can say pretty much any thing. Actions are what matter to us.
At the risk of sounding like I’m putting words in his mouth, I feel that even if SniperWZ may have made a joke in poor taste, that’s a far cry from actively trying to (or claiming the ability to) deport someone.
Which is why, while I think that the insults may not be strictly necessary, I honestly do not think that SniperWZ was saying what you are accusing him of saying. Nor do I believe that his heart holds such thoughts as you attribute to him.
I only know that comments like would be absolutely unacceptable (and even illegal) in Europe.
Socially unacceptable, perhaps. But the only speech I’ve actually seen prohibited by law in Europe is denying the Holocaust. Most (if not all) of the EU nations are signatories to the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, which guarantees freedom of expression.
Talking about skin color, nationality, religious beliefs, etc is clearly racially motivated, hence unconstitutional.
It is the noble goal of all Americans to someday live in a world where race does not matter. Even so, words are never prohibited by the Constitution. Nor does the law attempt to say what people should think. Our laws only prevent people from acting on those ideas.
@SniperWZ
@jayman, thanks for your attempt (albeit fruitless) to explain a simple concept to a simpleton, yet for your efforts, benoe accused you of “hairsplitting”??
I’m just trying to make sure that conflicts are based on the facts. I’m not trying to stop conflict or judge the participants. He’s free to dislike me for my efforts, I do not mind. As long as he dislikes me for the right reasons.
@jayman, thanks for your post, but I think benoe, who is a caricature of an extreme neo-Jacobin PC police, already made it clear: his small, ossified mind does not intake contradictory evidences to his preconceptions, it is crucial to his self-identity, too much does of cognitive dissonance will cause irreparable damage to his fragile ego and delusions of grandeur, much like Lu Xun’s Ah Q, he has yet again won a great “victory” and left this site!!
Jayman: you didn’t refute me either, but just to set somethign right: the SnipzerWZ-type comments are not “jokes” (in poor taste) as you labelled them: they are REAL (wake up to reality, please) threats. If you have ever been to China, you may have witnessed it yourself (although they try to do it really subtle). Foreigners ARE a) not let in, b) spied on and c) deported on a daily basis in China. It is the essence of that culture: CONTROL for the sake of control.
That’s what I tried to contrast with the (at least on paper) free and prosperous America, whose citizens on this space demonstrate some alarming level of naivity and cockiness. This further reinforces Chinese people’s believes that we are barbarians compared with them, and rightly so.
Instead of pointless finger-pointings here and talking about EACH OTHER, why don’t you just say “benoe, thanks for the reminder, indeed we think it’s unethical to make so-called “strategic phonecalls” and we will defend what the French achieved for mankind in the future, even AMONG OURSELVES.” In such a spirit the SniperWZ comments are neither funny, nor just politically incorrect: they are simply dangerous. For two reasons: First, if you, ignorant American think that “come on, I don’t think it’s real, it’s only a joke”, then TRY IT FOR YOURSELF. Good luck. It IS real. Second danger: if you don’t see through such comments and see their REAL (hidden) motives (which is NOT trying to be humorous, rather, really threatening in nature), then without alertness and savvy this otherwise totally inhumane practice of disallowing privacy in China can continue to flourish.
Is my standpoint still not clear? In that case I would suggest you go see it for yourself.
I promised not to write, so this must have been written by someone else in my name. The real benoe is already doing something more worthwhile than playing Don Quijote with cocky cowboys :-)
@ benoe:
Didn’t you say you weren’t going to respond anymore?
Dude, your entire argument with SniperWZ was because you both misunderstood what he wrote AND you read too much into it. I’m still trying to figure out how that is even possible. It is like successfully dividing by zero.
SniperWZ has written some really outrageous and ludicrous stuff, but in the instance that you’ve cited as him threatening to call the authorities on you, you’re wrong. Again, the reason you are wrong is because you misunderstood it and I dare say you’ve even convinced yourself that your interpretation of what he said is what he actually meant.
Personally, I find it incredibly amusing that someone who has been in China for so long (as you claim) isn’t picking up on the inherent humor (but yes, disturbing if you’re the victim) of what he suggested: Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, especially one in China who is crazy enough to go to the ends of getting you in trouble with the immigration authorities for revenge.
I don’t think anyone is saying “no, getting spied on and deported doesn’t suck” just like no one is suggesting that you fuck over someone is a nice thing to do. Why you persist on arguing this point is lost to me and clearly just about everyone before me. I’m not even sure anyone is actually arguing with you about what you think you’re arguing for.
You’ve gone off the deep-end. The only reason I haven’t lambasted you yet is because others before you have set the bar ridiculously high and my ignorance of all the misguided ranting you must’ve vomited on this thread leads me to still have faith that you’re still an okay guy.
Seriously, go back and reread. SniperWZ can ruffle your feathers if he wants to, but it is mind-boggling how far you’ve taken this misunderstanding. Has anyone made fun of your reading comprehension yet? Come on, dude, take a moment to check yourself here.
Kai, you also misunderstand everything… just like “all before you”. Anyway, it’s really tiring to “argue” with people who just don’t seem to care. FINAL WORDS (I am not benoe, benoe has left already):
1. Benoe is NOT affected by any comments here. She doesn’t live in China. She didn’t take any of the comments “personally”, she is talking about general principles of good manner.
2. Benoe was pointing out (unsuccessfully) that what you, ignorant people consider as “fun” is in fact “not fun”, but harsh reality. If you are interested in the REAL China, then you may take note, if not, go on dreaming (who cares, after all?)…
I will follow the real benoe and unsubscribe from this thread, because I think it’s dead. You males can go on forever proving that yours is bigger, I already stated my point clearly enough for those who have a decent mind to understand it, job done. Happy misunderstandings all the way, and happy stay in China.
@ benoe:
1. Self-professed mantle-bearer of “principles.”
2. Penchant for making irrelevant distinctions based upon gender.
3. General self-righteous holier-than-thou attitude.
LoL, are you Ann in disguise?
Holy shit, I missed you!
No no, don’t go…I’m waiting for the new kids like jayman to tear you a new one!
Kai, read my name backwards and you will get the answer to your question :-) But once you figured it out, please don’t tell the conclusion to others…
@benoe, hahahaha, it makes sense now, you’re French!!! That explains the overbearing pedanditry, faux sense of superiority, and mistaking dogma and prejudice for knowledge. That also explains this neo-jacobin mindset, first illustrated in Rousseau’s writings, that somehow everyone’s thinking (and not just actions) must be controlled by a superior political entity!! It’s amazing you fit all this caricaturized profile so well!!! You are almost like the mythical French figure everyone in America makes fun of since John Adams was president, except I always thought someone like you never existed, until now!
Hhahah, @kai, I and others already mocked benoe’s lack of reading comprehension, but perhaps it’s just self-deception instead.
Another benoe (which is a new term invented meaning dumb, stupid quotes) to savor:
“and we will defend what the French achieved for mankind in the future”
- hahahaha, and what is that achievement? America restored republican government and democracy and has been an example of how to do it right for over 200 years now, while the French descended into Jacobin terror and unstable governments, providing a template for Marxists and Communists and other totalitarian figures…Paris Commune anyone? What the French “achieved” was discredited and should never be repeated again, while you oppress the North Africans, America has just elected the first African-American president. Nobody in the world if fooled by you and your faux “achievements”.
It’s against the Netiquette to talk about each other, so I refrain from flaming. Benoe is _not_ French though (oops), so SniperWZ may try some other insult instead. Too bad benoe doesn’t read these very valuable comments anymore. I guess I will also unsubscribe from here, it’s getting boring…
so go away then
@Kai
I’m waiting for the new kids like jayman to tear you a new one!
Though there are some exceptions, I usually want to avoid getting involved in arguments. I feel my foreigner status and lack of personal experience in China reduces the the weight my words may have.
So instead I try to limit my comments to pointing out and clearing up possible misunderstandings. But I’m not always above the fray, sometimes I post before I spend enough time reflecting on what I should say.
ps – I’m sorry to see you haven’t been commenting as much lately. I hope I have nothing to do with this.
@SniperWZ
@jayman, thanks for your post, but
Benoe is not the only one reading. Even though I have almost no chance of changing her mind, I hope that at least someone finds my comments useful.
I’m not trying to “win” or “beat” anyone. I’m just want to build a little understanding.
@Benoe
Jayman: you didn’t refute me either
I obviously have no evidence, but several other posters have said the same thing I did. Maybe it’s best to agree to disagree, because you have no evidence either. We both have the same thing, his statement as given, and that’s open to interpretation.
While I may be naive, but I hope I don’t come across as arrogant. If something in my demeanor seems so, I want to be told how I may improve.
@Everyone
Don’t hesitate to email me (its419@gmail.com) if you have questions, comments, or just want to talk, but for whatever reason you don’t want to speak up in public.
I only speak English, but I don’t mind if you are not perfectly fluent. I promise I won’t make fun of you, and will try my best to do whatever I can to help.
ps What was the significance of Benoe backwards? I tried to search the web for it, but I found nothing. How does Eoneb lead to France?
China Guangzhou
Men’s footwear designer
Responsibilities (job description):
Creating sketches of man’s footwear in the following styles: sport, casual, classic, with a different price segment.
Selecting styles and suitable materials.
taking control over sample manufacturing and it’s establishment in the manufacturing process in China’s factories.
Requirements:
A-2 year experience in footwear designing
Knowledge of the latest trends in shoe designing
Drawing skills
We welcome skills in working with the following programs:
Adobe Photoshop
Corel draw
These are the kind of stories that make me soooo glad to have been born American and not Chinese.
I have NEVER had a problem finding a job in America or China….and I had to come to China to realize how truly awesome this is.