For those of you who lived in or been to any major city in China, you must have at one point gotten stuck for hours during the morning commute or being lost within the maze of side streets and intersections. Things apparently don’t look that much better from the bird’s eye view, as curious Chinese netizens shockingly discovered (thanks to Google Earth) that even cities in Africa have seemingly better city planning and layouts than Chinese ones. The crux of the arguments boils down to whether it was truly poor city planning or because that most Chinese cities, like Rome, were not built in one day.
From Mop:
Satellite view of China, our nation’s cities can’t even compare to Africa!
Beijing, from the top corner you can see the Bird Egg (National Theater), this can be considered city center, but the overall planning is not ideal.
Ancient capital of Nanjing, the city seems very messy.
Guangzhou city center, look like geometric shapes that appear on children's drawings.
Shanghai, although flourishing, but it still seem very messy.
Many will not even think that, this is the war-torn capital of Mogadishu in Somalia. Even so it is not a bustling city, but it is still in order.
One of the poorest countries in Africa, the Ethiopian capital of Addis Ababa, the city is planned in an orderly grid fashion.
Washington DC, the level of city layout and green enviroment is without question.
Manhattan
St. Petersburg, a bird's eye view of the beautiful city.
Pyongyang, the city planning is not bad, those who understand military affairs could tell this city's layout is based on the need for urban defense during wars, much like the layout of the city of Moscow.
Comments from Mop:
鲲海:
China have a complex geography and long history, don’t tell me you want to tear down all the culture passed down from ancient times and build anew. Africa itself it is not developed…planning a city on flat terrain can’t be so hard can it?
米克克:
Although the government is corrupt, especially the Planning Department, causing a mess. But if everything is straight lines up and down, then it will be good? Which teacher taught you that?
宫鲸雁:
LZ do you have mental issues? Chinese buildings and landscapes all conform to fengshui, what’s so good about organized [cities] in foreign countries, yet they are still not developed. Besides you are comparing Africa to China, you must be an online spy!!!
干杯1979:
Less people is good, you can plan [out a city] how you want to plan. Cities in America are laid out a lot better than ours, I know just by looking at their state boundaries and our provincial boundaries. Even bustling Areas such as Manhattan in New York are very orderly. London and Paris are not as atypical as New York, but the uniformity of their building are good, besides the commercial district, most building are 3 to 4, 4 to 5 stories tall. From the Satellite map everything looks the same.
拉风的男寕:
Then LZ go to Africa, have a good life, and don’t come back!!
装B的少年:
All even and blocky is so unnatural, doesn’t look good.
特级坏男人:
While seeing many people here are talking about the history of our great and proud country,
then looking at many news of places where in the name of city development (actually just to arrange a piece of land to sell for money), tearing down of historically relevant buildings.
I feel a little sad.
我不做好人:
Do you think real cities are all like “Sim City” where you can tear down and rebuild at your leisure? New cities with new planning obviously are even; why not go take a look at new cities such as Shenzhen?
Xian, an example of a ancient Chinese city with even layout.
Comments from NetEase:
老马！:
Looking at it this way, there indeed is a difference.
wzx.1987
Very messy.
jeannezeng21:
Ancient Chinese cities were planned very well; it is just that today’s city planners are too “skilled”, therefore it became like this.
y_j_wang:
This is called cultural heritage.
Many of our cities have over 1500 years of history, Theirs only 150 years.
Today’s youth are becoming more ignorant. Sign, posting these kind pictures without using their brain first.
sunmaming:
LZ must be retarded, how many years of history does America have? How many years of history does China have? Let’s not even talk about Africa. Haven’t you noticed that African cities are even more even than American ones? They are just a blank slate, they can design whatever they want, can this happen in China? Can you tear down the Forbidden City and turn it into a straight road? Do you how many relics are on the grounds of Nanjing? You think just because roads are straight then it is good? Haven’t you seen maps of Africa where it is planned well, their countries look like squares that is because only colonies are drawn this way. Houses 100 years old in America are considered relics; even if you tear down 500 year old houses in China you still can’t have straight streets. Do you have a brain, would you eat shit from foreigners just like you would eat cake?
1917.11.7:
Many national boundaries in Africa are also straight.
Some posted examples of foreign cities which may not seem so well organized:
Seoul
Tokyo
Paris
London
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When you live in China long enough,you will know that the urban planning agencies can’t plan for sh*t.
I don’t know nearly enough to comment intelligently on the pros and cons of effective city planning, I just LOL’d at the Chinese comments translated at the top, hilarious.
Every “well planned” city they showed has been completely built or rebuilt within the last 200 years. Older cities are always more organic, complicated, and much more interesting.
Agreed. This article is obviously written by those who knew nothing about architecture and urban planning.
pinches chinos pendejos
por favor, taco bell, no hables porque latinoamerica esta peor.
Literally translated, it means “taco bell grande, banos enchilada grande, hola.”
haha, that’s right, BIGLoser!
chinese people can use googleearth?
im impressed!!!
what a bullshit post
All the rabid nationalism exhibited in some of the Chinese comments is just ridiculous. Invoking Chinese cities’ long histories and thousands of years of culture is Do they not realize that ludicrous amounts of Chinese-style buildings/homes/courtyards are being consistently razed all throughout China in the name of modernization? Numerous ugly gigantic roads, Western-styled high rise apartments, and Walmarts are being built in their stead. Not only is the historical Chinese architecture being destroyed, but also the fabric of the community that goes along with it. Not only are the physical ‘Chinese’ cities being destroyed, but also the intangible societal element. It’s a pretty disgusting practice of the Chinese government and kind of disappointing that many Chinese would blindly and proudly defend these stripped down Westernized cities simply because they have Chinese names.
I could not say it better
Exactly. It’s not like the Wal-Mart or KTV is 5000 years old. Maybe the roads have been in the same place for a really long time, but most cities themselves have been completely destroyed and rebuilt in the last 20 or 30 years.
oops, second line: “…is irresponsible.”
Several people raise the point about the long histories of Chinese cities. Yes, a good number of the historical buildings have been razed to modernize the city, but there’s still a point where it’s easier to build off the existing layout rather than bulldoze whole sections of the city. Plus, I’m sure there are a few places so sacrosanct that they will not be touched for another thousand years.
Here’s to Xi’an having a grid layout but still preserving the old city wall.
Raab said:
Do they not realize that ludicrous amounts of Chinese-style buildings/homes/courtyards are being consistently razed all throughout China in the name of modernization?
Very good point here Raab. I once mentioned to an old girlfriend how beautiful Hangzhou would be without all the modern buildings, and if it retained the old jiangnan style buildings, it could still claim it’s title of most beautiful city in China. She looked at me as if I were mad or speaking in klingon!?
This modernization and progress is what most chinese, especially the younger generation want, as for me, Shanghai and Guangzhou are just poorly planned nightmares, that are seemingly impossible to navigate, either on foot or by taxi.
If you pay attention, pretty much all of the “old” stuff in Hangzhou is ridiculously new. It’s just built to look old. I hated that place – it was like visiting the China part of Epcot. A Chinese theme park for Chinese people, so much smog you can barely see across the lake.
If that’s heaven, I wonder what hell looks like.
I did, but NOT ALL of it is like that. Granted, as you say most of it has been razed/re-developed, but there is/was still some old buildings left.
Granted it’s not heaven, but it’s not hell either. I’ll reserve hell for the city of Nanchang, Jiangxi. Hangzhou gets 8/10 from me, traffic sucks, but thats everywhere in China. Also, Guangzhou is a far worse place to live than Hangzhou.
Most old Chinese buildings are made of wood and wood rots over time. There’s nothing anyone can do but tear it down and rebuild it. And this raze/rebuild dynamic has been happening in China since forever, nothing new. The emphasis in China is on the building’s design not how old a piece of wood is.
Nobody on that thread knows what fuck they are talking about. Judging a city by satellite photos from Google Earth? Please. They might as well be comparing string theory hypotheses to the fluid dynamics of a wombat.
<>
Interesting enough, this is what I’m writing my thesis on. Those damn wombats are tricky little bastards though.
I really don’t think a crazy layout can be helped in cities that have been around for a thousand years. I mean, ever been to Boston? It’s far from linear and can get pretty crazy when old clashes with new. And it’s only like 300 years old.
Besides, uniqueness and oddities is the essence of beauty.
Really? How much of these cities that have been around for a thousand years was built in the last 30 years? I think you’ll find most of it. Large swathes of what is now Beijing used to be just be farms and fields. Other older more cultural parts were knocked down en-masse to make way for new buildings/roads.
Don’t give me that “been around for a thousand years” bullshit, it’s simply not true.
It’s pretty clear though that with the desire to appear modern, Chinese cities are accepting building designs on a case-by-case basis, with no regard to an overall city plan. I can’t believe that even after the controversy over the big underpants, Beijing planners have approved that Dubai copy of a huge dick to go behind it. I can’t help thinking of Santa Fe, in New Mexico, where every building must conform to the city look and have a faux adobe facade while also being limited in height.
Well, to me, if you set it from 50m to 200m per cm then they all look “organized” to me. And I also think just from looking at the static picture low resolution pix on this page it is hard to tell.
You opinion may differ.
I really think Beijing has a lot of charm, especially inside the first ring road. And it looks very interesting from a 50m to 200m scale.
The first ring road was essentially the former city walls (Which Mao torn down to make way for roads). Within the first ring was the extent of the old capital, which was well planned.
yeah, Beijing is pretty “chaotic”–especially since the 90’s?
I totally agree that the Chinese forum comments above are totally ridiculous.
Oh yeah, and Ba’el forever bitches!
Sorry–I’m getting my symbols twisted in my never ending conspiratorial despairs.
Whatever it is in the washington plans!!!
Whatever it is for the win!
James said:
Judging a city by satellite photos from Google Earth?
I agree judging a city by sat photos is being overly cynical perhaps. But anyone who has travelled around Shanghai or Guangzhou by taxi would surely agree, there are easier laid out cities to get around, in less time, and with less stress.
Quality of life anyone?
As I see it, whole discussion on Mop and NetEase is about “everything from the China is bad”.
Congestion are normal when population reach the limit of infrastructure. When I was first time in Beijing (2004), 3rd Ring Road was primer of clever planing. You couldn’t find a car on it, almost! Two years latter, pressure on infrastructure raised due increased number of cars and 3rd RR looked like nightmare for me. Big problem of Beijing is traffic lights. They aren’t in sync (except in Chang’an Avenue). Lack of traffic culture worsens traffic, too. Big junctions on Ring roads are “very creative” (although, they are projected for far less traffic). There’s no magic solution for urban planing in fast growing cities.
Only solution can be public transportation, bicycles and to move official and public buildings out of clogged areas
I think you missed part of the concept of urban planning 101 – while you mention urban growth outpacing the structures that were created to facilitate the growth, a large part of urban planning is also limiting what kind of growth is allowed to happen where – as opposed to the anything-goes moneygrab that lets companies build whatever they want anywhere.
This kind of restriction allows the city to plan for the type of growth they have built the infrastructure to support, rather than build the support infrastructure and hope you’ve “guessed” how the city will organically grow. AFAIK there is far too much corruption going on to allow these kind of restrictions in growth in many of China’s blossoming 1st and 2nd tier cities.
It has nothing to do with preserving cultural and historical heritage. China has already destroyed the majority of what there once was of this.
Well said. I forgot to mention that. Thanks.
Urban planning definitely not one of China’s strenghts, but using google earth images as judge, sounds silly to me.
In the end… it really will not matter!
I tried so hard, and got so far, but in the end…it doesn’t really matter? Right Wiseman?
Good urban planning is a lot more than making a city look pretty and orderly from an aeroplane. Many older cities, like those found in Asia and Europe, look chaotic and messy from the air, but work very well at ground level. A grid layout on Google Earth may seem orderly, but it can conceal foul air, open sewers, congested traffic, and a host of other urban ills.
Please don’t forget feng shui, one of the oldest forms of environmental planning. Many feng shui practitioners frown on long roads set in straight lines, regardless of landform. The meandering path is often more interesting, and more conducive to life and prosperity.
This is coming from a pervertt with 2 t’s. hilariously random bro. You just made my day
Come to the UK and see for yourself how great the city planning is here… good luck to those who actually try to look for a place!
Come to the UK and see for yourself how great the city planning is here… good luck to those who actually try to look for a place!
none, say that after you have sat in a traffic jam in Guangzhou in 30 degree plus heat with humidity in the 90 percent plus range, where the traffic moves barely, if at all, and it can take you longer to get across a few blocks, whereas in England you could easily cross a whole town…I won’t even go into Shanghai, not a city for drivers, at all:(
The shown satellite photo of Beijing: Haidian district, near the third ring road.. the centre of Beijing? Hardly. Check out any area between TianAnMen and DongZhiMen, and you’ll see a different story.
I can n’t really see the Chinese cities bcuz the layer of smog makes everything blurry. I think the part of city planning is making places to live in. China has failed with the pollution.
Not every city is swamped in smog. I’d say Zhuhai and Zhaoqing in guangdong, are up their in terms of air quality.
I’d support their culture argument for the piss poor urban planning in their cities if it wasn’t for the fact that all of these stupid FQ kiddies would jump on the bandwagon in an instant to tear down any of their “cultural heritage” to put up a new KTV/Nike store/*insert comparitively worthless place here*
Urban planning in China is shitty. Kids need to get over it.
Kunming is the best planned city in China, and I’ve been to them all. Kunming also has a urban planning museum!