Three days ago, two Chinese women (a mother and daughter) in Wuhan went to see the “sakura” cherry blossom at Wuhan University and take pictures. However, they were different from the other people who went to admire the flowers because they were wearing kimonos, a traditional Japanese outfit for women. Soon, this angered many other Chinese who told them to leave and over 10 young Chinese also followed them.
From Sohu:
Over ten people drove away the “wearing kimonos taking pictures” mother-daughter pair.
A March 20 shot in Wuhan University campus shot of the blooming Sakura cherry blossoms and the crowds appreciating the flowers.
Debate topic on Sohu:
Should the mother-daughter pair wearing kimonos to take pictures have been driven away?
13,964 total people [as of 2009 March 24, 1:00am]
- Supporting Point of View:
Should, we cannot forget Japan’s violations of our country, and doing this can make them wake up.
7198 people.
- Opposing Point of View
Should not, it is only wearing kimonos to take pictures, we should be mature and tolerant, and not react extremely.
6656 people.
Poll on Sohu:
Q: Mother-daughter wearing kimonos taking pictures at Wuhan University were driving away by city residents, what do you think?
97,884 votes [as of 2009 March 24, 1:00am]
- We cannot forget the eight years of hardships during the War of Resistance, wearing kimonos to admire the sakura cherry blossoms is an injustice to the martyrs who died resisting the Japanese. 46,649 votes (47.66%)
- History of course must be remembered well, but sakura cherry blossoms and kimonos have become a victim of the war. 19,078 votes (19.5%)
- The women admiring kimonos can adopt other ways to satisfy their own curiosity, and do not need to incur the public’s wrath in broad daylight. 19,528 votes (19.96%)
- Why does something like this happen every year, why is there this kind of news every year? Truly speechless… 12,629 (12.91%)
Comments from Sohu:
搜狐山西省网友:
Narrow-minded! If it is like this, then would pictures of classic European wedding gowns be a controversial yearning for when the Allied Forces of Eight Powers entered Beijing [in 1900]!? Truly narrow-minded! In the future, we should forever never mix national/ethnic culture then! Kimonos do not represent Japanese militarism, the Japanese common people also do not represent Japanese fascism. I truly feel ashamed for this kind of narrow-minded nationalism!
搜狐江西省网友:
I despise these fake patriots who only know how to bully the weak and small. This is not what courageous and upright men do. If the [foreign] devils truly staged a comeback, I believe they [fake patriots] would flee faster than mice.
I have met several tens of people crazily surround a knocked down skinny thief because the thief could no longer retaliate, yet several hundred people not dare to chase two brazen thieves because they looked a little mean, and also several train cars of people including the train police all not daring to concern themselves with bullies/tyrants on a train who seized and resold seats for money because they had a gang. At the time, it fell to me alone as a student to drive away those seat stealing bullies. Although not a single passenger helped me, the criminals could see in my eyes my fearlessness, that I would use physical violence at any time, so they did not dare to physically fight me.
There are too many people who use strength to bully the weak, and too few who maintain justice and fight for the living! Those whose hearts do not have conviction are all impulse and empty words! Bullying two women who do not have the same interests are not true men! When the enemy puts the edge of the knife to your face, you being able to put forth and be fearless for your belief, that is being a true man!
搜狐河南省平顶山市网友:
If it were only to take photographs, there is no need to make such a big deal. From their situation, we can see they were intentionally trying to provoke, completely disregarding the disaster Japan brought to China and the disgrace to China’s history.
搜狐江西省南昌市网友:
I finally understand why the Japanese were defeated in World War 2: they were wearing kimonos to fight.
搜狐北京市网友:
Narrow-minded countrymen, may I ask how we should deal with the Japanese cars filling the streets, the Japanese electronics filling the department stores, and the Japanese cosmetics that fill the counters?
搜狐广东省深圳市网友:
When can China truly become strong and powerful?–When its citizens’ characters are elevated!!! Using many to bully the few is patriotism?! Sad!!! Where is your heroism when in front of a knife-wielding gangster?! I also hate Japanese people, and dream of being able to see China destroy it in my remaining years!!! But this kind of behavior I very much despise!!!
搜狐辽宁省网友:
The flowers are innocent, and some people in China simply have nothing better to do. Japanese people occupying your islands allow you to go attack others and allow your own country to bully your own people is really impressive.
搜狐陕西省网友:
You all have an inferiority complex!!! China is a very big country, and as the people of a big country, you should have the bearing of people from a big country. but when someone wears a kimono, you forget it! It is none of your damn business, you are all too ignorant~ If you cannot tolerate kimonos, then why can you tolerate Japanese sakura cherry blossoms?
搜狐网友:
Ignorant thing! Sakura cherry blossoms belong to all humanity, how can it be Japan’s sakura cherry blossoms? Even if it were planted by Japanese people, it does not belong to Japanese people! If it belongs to them, then I can plant flowers around the world, and would these flowers all belong to me alone?
搜狐广西壮族自治区南宁市网友:
China public spaces forbid beast dress/clothing! If you want to be beautiful, you can go be beautiful in Japan! Do not be beautiful here in China! Because Chinese people do not think this is pretty! Just like you seeing your wife giving me a gift of affection and me showing off in front of you!
湖南省长沙市网友:
Wuhan University’s sakura cherry blossoms s were planted when the Japanese army occupied Wuhan and established their headquarters at Wuhan University. It is because of this that some countrymen with consciences would oppose those wearing kimonos here to take pictures. This thing must be viewed with respect to the issue’s historical background. If you do not know history, there is no need to rashly drag in Japanese products, dress, art, etc.
Comments from Tianya:
我爱小杜:
Sakura cherry blossoms is Japan’s national flower, why not tear down the Wuhan University’s Sakura garden?
愤怒的MAJIA:
I do not know about Wuhan…
But in Nanjing no one dares to wear kimonos and walk around the streets.
流苏梦醒:
I am not that sensitive.
That mother-daughter pair can go to Japan, wearing kimonos, no big deal, individual freedom.
But when you are clearly Chinese and you wear kimonos on the streets of China, then you are completely crazy.
Wearing Korean dress, India sari, all the same, all crazy.
lilywinters:
They look nice, but the moment I see them I think of Japan, this cannot be changed…
Everyone can look at wisterias, which are also pretty good looking…
来沉没吧:
Spare the sakura cherry blossoms, they are only a type of plants. It is not as if they were unique to Japan, or would the cactus belong to Mexico?
找抽的柠檬:
There is nothing wrong with the clothes themselves, but you must consider the occassion/situation when you wear them. Don’t say that you had no intentions, would you have the courage to wear it to the Nanjing Massacre Museum? You were trying to provoke, do not pretend to beinnocent. And what more, what more, what more…this kimono is too ugly, even Japanese people would condemn it.
tian心:
Do not be too extreme, they were just taking pictures, not doing anything that was unreasonable or unnatural. I do not know why everyone is so excited. I do not understand…
韵云纭酝芸:
What right do they have to not let them wear kimonos? In fact, kimonos are the son [descendants] of Chinese [traditional] dress.
klj1983:
How come it does not look like a kimono to me~ so ugly~ any COS group’s kimonos are better looking~~~ and what more~they are wearing it very unprofessionally~~ truly awful~~~ Regarding the sakura blossom issue~~~ Sigh~ the truth is that little Japan has made the sakura cherry blossom phenomenon as the embodiment of their country for promotion~~ Look in the manga, anime, and Japanese dramas~~~ the main character is always happily going to school and studying in the midst of sakura blossoms floating down~~~ not to mention the classic scenes of being under a sakura cherry tree~ Also there is the popularity of whatever SAKURA song~~~ slowly and eventually~~ it will become Japan’s~~~
Actually Little Japan wears kimonos during official occasions~ this tradition should be respected~ I always fantasize~ if I can wear a traditional Chinese dress for the new year or holidays~ and have a traditional hair style to walk around on the streets~ how cool/amusing/interesting that would be~~~
lzq1984:
When I see kimonos I think of Japan, and it cannot be unsaid that Japan is an unease forever in the hearts of Chinese. If I were there, I probably would not drive them away, only look at her curiously, and feel embarrassed for them.
More information and translation of Chinese netizen comments at EastSouthWestNorth.
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I feel bad for them though.
I recall seeing the old Japanese couple wearing kimono around in Suzhou, the crate of Wu kingdom, no one have problem with them.
Suzhou has very little connection with Japan during war years you can’t compare that. Of all places the mother and daughter as Chinese women wear their Kimonos in Wuhan they wear at former occupation headquarters and memorial ground is very much distasteful. Wuhan is definitely not Nanjing but memorial ground is still very symbolic.
Kimonos are a derivative of the han-fu anyway, so no real reason to be that pissed off…it’s not like they were waving the Amaterasu flag while posing for the pic…
I think all Chinese who wear jeans and t-shirts should get beat up for being western imperialist zougou.
They did get beat up and worse, don’t you read history? It was called the Cultral Revolution.
totally different things
[comment hidden for too many negative votes -- click to view]
DingDing… seems you are one of the dumbest.
Fucking let go and move on already
UK has
US Indians have
Blacks have
And just exactly how is Jap cloth different from Jap cars, electronics, food, and services?
I don’t think you represent the opinion of all Native Americans and African-Americans.
Please Yong, enlighten us to what you know about Native American and Black American sentiment towards their “conquerors” and “oppressors”.
Native Americans don’t freak out when they see other American dressed as cowboys. Black Americans don’t freak out when they see other Americans dressed in Confederate costumes.
no problem if they are japanese.
the problem is they are chinese. chinese people hate 汉奸 (traitor of chinese people) more than japanese people
i would say who cares what they wear (were one of the girls wearing a pajamas or kimono) as long as their cloths were made in China and helped stimulating the economy.
it is obviously distasteful, but should they have been harassed? i dunno.
pics are a little small, but judging from the sashes and the loose sleeves it look more like traditional hanfu, so the Chinese are basically making fun of their own culture.
“Shanzai” kimono?
should be shanzai hanfu, since the kimono came from traditional chinese dress
I agree, Joe. Those do not look like Japanese Kimono, though I do not know enough about Chinese dress to have pinpointed exactly what style of dress it was. However, after looking up the style after you mentioned the name, I must agree. It is Chinese Hanfu – not Japanese Kimono. The people who chased the mother-daughter pair out were ignorant of their own culture.
they bought the Kimono’s off the porno industry…
anyways on a serious note:
yes, the women have the right to wear the kimonos, and yes, the people also have the right to chase them off.
DEMOCRACY IN ACTION!!!!
Werd up to that!
I agree with Billy Joel. I explained to my Kenyan ambassador that I would be visiting China and was learning basic chinese.
He kept insisting I was going to Japan, so I made fun of his simplistic view of religion.
He had the right to look aggressive, mean, and heartless.
I have the right to pin him and refuse further engagment.
“. . . so I made fun of his simplistic view of * religion *.” * The * region * rather?
In a country where there is deep rooted feelings from ww2 and strong nationalistic and patriotic sentiments, its hard for people who have acquired Japanese tastes to celebrate in Japanese traditional outfit.
I can see the two woman were just minding their own business with their Japanese outfits. Shit happens.
Just dress normally, no elaborate outfits to celebrate what the majority considers to a political, cultural and economic rival in the East Asian sphere.
This totally makes me want to go admire some blossoms in a samurai outfit and fuck up some weaksauce “you hurt our feelings” babies. A lot of the translated comments are quite good, however, I don’t think they represent the votes – it seems most of them are on the “Why do they have to be so pety” side but the poll seems to indicate most of the people as supporting the angry kids who felt some women wearing kimonos disgrace their culture….which is ridiculous.
Amen to that dude. These Chimates are SOOOO angry about getting their asses kicked when the rest of the world has either apologized to them, or forgotten about it and invested BILLIONS in their economy.
The truth of the matter is that they hate themselves. They really haven’t made a significant contribution to the world in about 5 centuries, reliant on foreign investment, and have never really proven themselves in conflict with a foreign adversary (I know they are going to be chiming in with Korea, but if it wasn’t for Russia this place would have developed 50 years ago and you guys would still REALLY be CHINESE, not the shanzhai version of China you are)
Point being, they are so angry with themselves that they can’t imagine people like these women are so confident that they can look past the trangressions of 60 years ago and just be individual. Not dressed in drabby fake WESTERN clothes with dirty hair and haven’t showered for 5 days.
The Chimatrons will never be anything, they are too petty…. its just the way it is. Make my NIKES that’s all you are good for
what, did your favorite porn star take the day off.
Go get ****ed.
Which point are you refuting, ILL NO ISe? Be a little more articulate with your lambasting and perhaps readers wont think yer just a little bitch.
Either the translated comments:
1. Aren’t representative;
2. Are representative, and thus reassuring; or
3. Haters know how to vote but not articulate their prejudices, feelings, or grudges.
I guess it could be a combination.
Personally, I thought both the poll and, uh debate poll (?) were reassuring since I’m always afraid of some hyper-nationalistic landslide. That they’re roughly even is good. The poll (second one) may have 47.66% of the voters in one camp, but its important to note that the while the other 52.34% of the people are split into three camps, they’re all still saying there’s nothing wrong with what the women did. At most, only 19.96% felt that maybe they should’ve considered the environment and should’ve considered the very real possibility of trouble.
Online votes are not scientific and should not be taken too seriously. I suggest a search on what media and blogs say about this incident and here it is
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=%E6%AD%A6%E6%B1%89%E5%A4%A7%E5%AD%A6+%E5%92%8C%E6%9C%8D%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta=&aq=f&oq=
I clicked all links in the first 10 pages. Most of the articles criticize the “driving away” as 狭隘民族主义 (narrow-minded nationalism) and think those students were over-reacting. Some say this reflects the frailty of Chinese nationality, some call it the failure of Chinese education system and some demand a more tolerable (兼容并包的) social environment. As far as I read, NONE of them supports the students’ extreme behavior.
my previous comment was a reply to the original post, not directly related to Kai’s. sorry if it makes any confusion.
All the polls seem to be rigged like that, Yes as one block and No separated into many categories, even the toilet thread.
yaaaaaaaaaawn
The current generation is too soaked in hating the Japanese, there is simply no way out. I remeber back during the earthquake Japan requested military aircraft to transport aid into Sichuan, the government initially accepted it but later they decided to reject the whole mission over public outrage.
And this sentiment bolds bad for the future, I think it’s just a matter of time before Japan bids for UN security council, which will put China on a massive dilemma, the government will have to veto the bid for domestic scrutiny but how many times can the Chinese government do it? once is fine, twice? third time perhaps? can it veto forever? I think not. And japan seems to be determined to join the security council, and other countries except only South Korea and China will either be neutral or supportive of the bid, which means China will have to go against popular international will to sustain internal support.
As for this costume incident, if they hate Japan, why did they come to the cherry blossom show in the first place? and they probably love watching Japanese porn and reading manga too!
I agree about the current generation. I suspect (but cannot prove) that it has to do with the way they’re educated about history. I can see it in the eyes of my students. They learn something or are told something in Grade 10 that makes them angry. I’ve often heard Grade 10 students swearing about Japan, writing offensive things on the desks, or on notes, etc.
It’s hard to advocate teaching hate, but if some old teacher lived through the era and is now teaching it, how is he going to remain objective while teaching it? Hard to do I think. Maybe after some time has passed and that generation passes away, people can start to heal more easily and look at things in a more objective way. There’s a way to not forget history while not being simultaneously controlled by it.
Interesting observation. I think you just revealed a key characteristic of Chinese nationality, “taking history as a mirror” (以史为鉴), but sometimes being controlled by it. If I remember correctly, it’s the whole point of my high school history books. For many Chinese, lessons from history are as important as, if not more important than, living examples. Every culture with long history more or less bears this characteristic but the Chinese one puts it into extreme. The reasons are
1. Chinese culture were almost uninterrupted in the previous two thousand years and many parts of history have been ‘deposited’ into the Chinese language. The best examples are 成语 (proverbs). Many of 成语 tell stories happened more than one thousand years ago and their extended meanings are still actively in use in modern Chinese, like 围魏救赵, 完璧归赵, 负荆请罪, 毛遂自荐, 万事俱备只欠东风.
2. Confucianism is the backbone of ancient Chinese culture and the philosophy advocates learning from history more than breeding new ideas. Actually one of Confucian’s Five Classics (五经) is a history book (春秋左氏传). The modern China is definitely not a Confucian society but it’s still heavily influence the way people think.
So we have something called 历史的包袱 (burden of history) in China, which it’s not easy to get over. For many Chinese one hundred years is only like a blink of eyes and things happened in the first half of 20th century is as vivid as yesterday’s bad dinner. When it’s hard to forget, it’s harder to forgive.
I’m not defending this national sensation but trying to find the deeper reason behind it. IMO labeling it with a monochromatic ‘nationalism’ tag would be too simplistic.
just my humble 2c
I agree 100%. You can already see some changes happening. As much as what I said before (about the hatred of some students towards Japan) is true, it’s also true that a lot of my students are keenly interested in Japan. We have a series of National Geographic books that focus on countries – and the one about Japan is one of the most read out of the whole lot. Japanese cartoons especially have peaked the interest of young people everywhere in the world, China is no different. I hope that this “globalization of culture” will help reduce the bad feelings between a lot of countries, including China and Japan.
I agree USTCer that it’s too easy to scream “nationalists!”, throw up your hands, roll your eyes, and walk away; it’s better to actually try to understand where these feelings are coming from.
Chinese need to get over their retarded sense of nationalism. If you want to hate the Japanese then stop buying their products and watching their TV shows and movies. China is so full of hyper-sensitive pussies. It seems like everyday someone is hurting China’s feelings. Grow the fuck up Chinese people.
malagebi says: “Chinese need to get over their retarded sense of nationalism. If you want to hate the Japanese then stop buying their products and watching their TV shows and movies. China is so full of hyper-sensitive pussies. It seems like everyday someone is hurting China’s feelings. Grow the fuck up Chinese people.”
Agreed, this is pathetic. No wonder nobody considers China anything other than a money loving nation of ill tempered, rude, bullies.
just like the chinese in LA fake busters. Only pick on the weak, with them fake nationism. Only say shit in numbers but wont say shit when they by themselve. Or pretend to be from somewhere else. Saying they are from hk and taiwan instead of the mainland. sad sad sad
The government started something to deflect public criticism…and it ran away on them…to the point that Japan can’t give aid to them without public outcry. What is the matter with the Chinese mindset? YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT HAVE BEEN WRONGED!!! You were occupied and beaten down for a few years…Here are a few others that have suffered greater tragedies.
South Africans-they still aren’t nearly as bitter as Chinese.
American Blacks- Not nearly as bitter as Chinese.
Japanese- GOT NUKED!!!! 20 years later they were best buddies with the USA.
Philipines- Japan did horrible things there as well.
British and most of Europe- The Germans bombed the shit outta them!
If someone was wearing military Japanese outfits and waving rising sun flags I could understand the anger, but Kimonos? Seriously, the Chinese in general just go out of their way to look for ’slights’.
As long as China has the victim attitude, Chinese will always be ‘Sick Men of Asia’.
Yes, I said it.
For the people I’ve talked to its all a simple numbers thing, they’re angry and embarrassed that a small country, by area and pop, kicked their ass.
I hear Chinese people say all the time that the Chinese military is the most powerful just because China has 1.6 billion people. I guess they think Jackie Chan can stop bullets and bombs…
My experience is from talking to eastern Chinese people
elitist who makes his living robbing from the poor and rich to feed his own fat arse…
Basically, you are right, nationalism has begun to backfire on the government itself. When they made the East Sea Gas deal with Japan last year, censors had to shut down all discussion and complaints about the matter. And just a while ago the former spokeman for foreign ministry announced that China and Philippines could share Spratly Islands resources the people once again cried and called him a traitor, knowing perfect well that he was only relaying the message from the central government.
perhaps it’s because china is not under US occupation.
if Japan today is still under their emperor’s rule, don’t you think US will get nuked for retaliation? if you happen to read THE CHRYSANTHEMUM AND THE SWORD you should know Japanese people only kneels before power
Mao was the famouse “Great Leap Forward” Man. Get a clue!
Maybe they feel smart and sexy enough to handle some control over universal events.
How’s your job going?
VeerLeft,
It’s not so easy to get over. You probably don’t know that in the Netherlands there is a saying ” A good German is a dead German”, still being used regularly among the Dutch. Cars with German plates often get tickets for no reasons. The social psychology of war victims may be more complicated than what You and I can understand. It’s hard to imagine in west Europe who wants to pretend to be a German if he/she was not born one.
If I were a neighbor, I probably would try to persuade these two women (nicely as I can) to have some sensibility and not to go out dressing like that. I would think that some of the people at Wuhan University were probably doing exactly what I wanted to do (we don’t know the details of what had happened at the time.)
In the UK there are lots of jokes about Germans, the war etc. And lots of people still voice dislikes. If somebody dressed up as a NAZI soldier, they’d get a negative reaction.
But if a woman dressed up as in traditional German clothing – well, the men’s reactions would be pretty positive.
There’s a big difference between pretending to be Japanese and just dressing up in traditional Japanese clothes. Especially when those traditional clothes have come to represent an idealised picture of feminity.
“China is so full of hyper-sensitive pussies.”
Ha ha ha no doubt, what the hell is the big deal? Kimonos are distasteful? WTF? China, every time you say your “feelings are hurt” the world laughs its ass off.
Grow up, you are definitely progressing – everybody is happy to see that, but whining every time you are criticized and all this really pathetic nationalism (I thought only Americans were that stupid!) is so embarrassing. Act mature!
If a child behaves badly, I blame the parents. If a society behaves badly, I blame the government.
chinese pig, unblock youtube
i 4 @n i @nd 5a \^/|70le W(|)ld 60 87i^d
this is what happens when you stay inside the closed house for ages. WAKE UP!
Alright, Alright…
Perhaps both sides need a chill pill…
For starters, I am in the “this is kinda stupid” group. I don’t think people should have done that to these poor girls. I LOT of these people have watched japanese cartoons, played a japanese game system, driven a japanese car, looked at JAV and the list goes on, go to japanese restaurants and so on. But, it is wrong to wear japanese clothes? This is funny. The cherry blossom is a symbol of japan. But, no plant, tree, animal belongs to any government. With that said, lets look at Japanese restaurants, which ARE actually owned by Japanese. The waiters and cooks wear japanese clothing. Yup, right here in China. Why haven’t they been chased away? In fact the japanese restaurant next to my home is full of Chinese.
I talked to a few friends today to get their opinion. They told me something really down to earth. People hate or hurt others because they dislike themselves. If you want to be better than others, improve yourself first. Disliking/Bullying others, because of their clothing is really not healthy. It shows that something is wrong psychologically. If Chinese are really better than Japanese, why do they care so much? If you are really confident in yourself, you don’t need to worry about others losing your “national” face. It cannot be lost. Why not be proud of your own accomplishments. This came from my friend, born and raised in China.
It proves 2 two things. Not all Chinese are hyper nationalists and there are Chinese who ARE reasonable. So, I think we should slow down on the over-generalizations. I do think that too much nationalism will hurt China in the future. But, calling Chinese unreasonable names and making stupid remarks, just makes you look just as unreasonable and stupid.
My thoughts: Like others have posted. It seems that a few people lack confidence. Or, they have internal issues. Not all of them. But, many. These women are not bitches or whores. They are normal citizens. In fact, their wearing of a kimono, may not even mean they hate their country. They might be wearing them as a good will or friendly wave to Japan. Which, I don’t seen anything wrong with that… In fact, its quite brave…
I do have a question. Early last year, Mr. Hu played pingpong with someone from Japan, during his visit. Wearing a kimono under a tree doesn’t involve any Actual japanese. Hu Jintao actually played a game that most friends usually play. He used a Japanese table, ball and paddle. He played in front of japanese spectators and enjoyed a good meal with Japanese delgates. (That is WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAY more intimate than wearing some kimono) I don’t think that makes him a traitor…
Here is the article:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/09/content_8133041.htm
So, now that the facts are straight. Can I get a please shut up everyone?
Thanks for a major concesion. I hate no particular life but have encountered people bored and hateful.
They ususally mislike themselves. I agree.
John has a point… are some of these people just upset that their own culture hasn’t been preserved well enough and with enough pride? Why do so few Chinese people wear traditonal clothing? Yeah you get the occassional qipao or bagua but it’s nothing compared to Japanese people’s embrace of their culture through clothing. On a regular day in any city in Japan you could see a few people wearing a yukata, kimono, getta, or some other traditional Japanese clothing and around certain holidays many people wear them. Maybe those people who harangued the mother and daughter just felt empty and jealous because Japan has fun exportable culture that the world embraces and China for the most part doesn’t(bad tattos don’t count) even though it has such an amazing cultural inventory to pull from.
Errrr….. Which cities in Japan have you been hanging around?
Certainly many Japanese dress up in traditional costumes for festivals, especially in summer. And for special occasions.
But unless you are visiting a tourist attraction, you are very unlikely to see any traditional clothes the rest of the time.
And the only major difference between the preservation of Japanese and Chinese culture is that Japan still has its shrines and temples. Otherwise the two countries aren’t all that different in terms of their adoption of European and US culture.
Really? You don’t think everyday you see one or two people wearing some traditional clothes, especially older ladies? You don’t hear clopping getta? Maybe I’m just lucky or notice that kind of thing. Or maybe I was trippin.
Trying to equate the frequency of people’s propensity to dress up in traditional clothing to pride is laughable. Different cultures express themselves in different ways. It’s hilarious to claim not enough people dress up in traditional clothing because they are lacking pride or are jealous. The Italians don’t dress in Roman clothing nor do the Greeks while walking down the street, are they lacking pride and are jealous?
OMG omg take a chill pill. You are right but I don’t think I said that only people who wear their “traditional” dress have cultural pride. If I did, I didn’t mean to. Those that do though are obviously showing off their cultural pride, are they not? That doesn’t mean they have more, just means they like to show it. Bavarians wearing Leiderhosen, Cubans wearing Guayaberas, Japanese wearing kimono certainly have cultural pride. Them showing that pride all the time, or just seeing those symbols of culture, might make others who have less inclination to show it or less tradition of such things, jealous or uncomfortable. Italians do show their cultural pride through their dress and there are plenty of places in Italy where people wear some traditional regional clothing. They also wear Gucci, Prada, and Armani, all the friggin time. Togas are so like 2000 years ago! Ciao!
I find it interesting that hyper-nationalists seem to exist in every country, and that there are always some of us who are embarrassed about those who live in our own countries.
I just hope we can all manage to work together without such people causing problems. It was sad, for example, to see that aid diverted from the people affected by the earthquake merely because it was offered by the Japanese.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/09/content_8133041_1.htm
I would argue that a China that could learn to cooperate and even work with Japan on better relations would get a HUGE amount of respect.
A China/Japan war movie is shown everyday on Chinese TV, sometimes you can find three movies playing at once on a Saturday. If constantly movies of Japan are shown wrecking havoc on past generations, then people will continue to be emotional about the past.
Yes, those drive me nuts. Seriously, if, say, England played WW2 dramas over and over on a weekly basis people would complain. But apparently enough people here like it here for them to do more and more. I barely touch the TV anymore except as a big extension of my laptop screen now (and for the news).
This two women looks exactly like (fake) statues of Court Ladies from Tang dynasty I have at home. Former ayi bought it to my wife.
This two kimono’s doesn’t look like Japanese one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono
Did you give one to your girlfriend too?
(sigh!) Are you American?
Ever been to an Anime fest in China? Everyone and everything is Japanese and everybody is happy and has fun. It could be that Wuhan people are just a bit rough and rude… isn’t that their stereotype?
Hey, if your weather was this shitty, you would be pissed off all the time too.
Joe is definitely right, it appears they are wearing hanfu, the traditional Chinese clothing named after the Han Empire, compare this:
http://img.hc360.com/cloth/info/images/200604/hanfu012.jpg
Not hanfu – look at the belts. These are probably yukata rather than kimono. Yukata is a lighter summer version, a kind of casual wear.
I dunno but I was under the impression that kimonos generally have very striaght cut sleeves (to conform to the strict ‘T’ shape when laid flat) while hanfu have very loose sleeves.
you can’t rally tell the difference between kimono and hanfu from the front. The the only consistent difference across all period and regional style is that kimono have a folded blanket type of thing in the back and hanfu does not. But you’ll need a picture from back to tell.
Eh, sadly, that’s mistaken. The front is very different. There are three different parts to the sash, the Obi, the Obi-jime, and the Obi-age. It’s not a blanket, either. It’s the bow of the obi. It’s really not hard to tell the difference.
No, Yukata are made of cotton. These are what we call “Tourist kimono.” You can buy them anywhere that has Asian knick-knacks and whatnot. They don’t have the true style of a kimono/yukata, the same anatomy, all that jazz. I wear and study kimono like a mad woman.
Anti-patriot because of their clothing?
Some of the comments above, both translated and otherwise, are just stupid.
By the way, Youtube is currently blocked in China because Youtube won’t remove videos of Chinese soldiers beating Tibetan Monks.
The fact it was in a university means it should be a place for discussion and debate. Seems like the rednecks have came up and stir up trouble.
University isn’t a public place for everybody but for people with brains and who can respect others and disagree. If they behave like a immature brat, then they should go and get counselling.
I teach at another University in Wuhan, and haven’t been to Wu Da yet to see the cherry blossoms, but have been invited by a few people. This is actually a very famous thing in Wuhan. Huge crowds gather every year. In fact, the University is even charging 10 yuan for admission to the campus right now. Chances are that the crowd had more visitors than students. This shouldn’t reflect poorly on the school.
Strange, I don’t see any of the middle-aged Japanese businessmen who have sexually re-colonized entire streets near my neighbourhood in Gubei, Shanghai, being ‘driven away’… and the thousands of Shanghai girls who gleefully don Japanese slut-wear seem to get off fairly easily as well, given the fact that tens of thousands of netizens are frothing at the mouth at the sight of a kimono.
Shanghai isn’t exactly representative of the rest of the nation. China is a BIG country and attitudes towards any subject will differ greatly between different areas and even between different people in the same area.
Also, keep in mind that most people who DON’T care also usually DON’T comment. I’ve mentioned this before, but the extremes are often disproportionately represented. Try to avoid taking anything like this as representative of all China or even most of China.
There are some really intelligent comments above, like USTCer’s. Simply put, there ARE reasons for what happened, very understandable reasons, that I suspect a few of you THINK you already know and understand but don’t actually. Some of those reasons DO include ignorance and stupidity on the aggressors’ part, but there’s a lot of important context here that people are either missing or mischaracterizing.
Christ almighty Kai, I sometimes wonder if you are wilfully obtuse when it comes to China…if the internet existed in the 1930s and this blog was called reichSMACK no doubt you’d be apologising for kristallnacht, and earnestly pontificating about how accusations of Anti-Semitism against the German people are in large part a consequence of mischaracterization, and how not all Germans are not anti-Semitic etc etc etc.
Get off the fucking fence for once. The distortion of history is not a laughing matter. Tens of thousands of Chinese netizens (from all over this ‘BIG’ country), as a consequence of the knee-jerk rape of historical objectivity perpetrated in the PRC believe that the kimonos worn by thousands of waitresses across the nation’s thriving Japanese restaurants are an ‘insult to martyrs’ and so on and so forth, when the Kuomintang army’s overwhelming sacrifices in comparison to the paltry, single-pitched-battle efforts of the Red Army against the Japanese are utterly whitewashed in the official discourses that they swallow…just, get your priorities in order.
PS- (I presume that Asis will sanction this shameless cut n’paste job)
“Kai disclaimer:
In this comment I have drawn upon generalisations in order to make my point and have therefore not been able to include every individual in China.
Whilst making this comment I was aware that China is developing at a rapid pace from relative abject poverty and that attitudes are probably slowly changing on this subject and many others.
This comment was in no way based on a predisposition that the West is superior to China. The author is aware that Western society is far from perfect, and applies the same standards of criticism to her/his own country.
Whilst making this comment, the author was also aware that having been raised and educated in Western society it is difficult to judge from a wholly objective position and as such, the views can not be said to be made entirely without prejudice.
This author rejects racism, sexism and any other form of bullying from one party to another.
No animals were hurt in the posting of this comment.”
The ‘Kai disclaimer’ is there to be copied and pasted!
Completely agree with your point, by the way.
BTW the second of those double posts is slightly more fine-tuned, please refer to that one!
Furthermore, I never claimed that the incident was representative of all China. My first post was supposed to be ironic, drawing attention to the flaws in the ‘pro’ netizens’ logic. It’s great that the majority of voters thought that the women did nothing wrong. It’s the tens of thousands of fucking idiots who are condoning something which, as you agree, is at least in part a consequence of ignorance and stupidity (and therefore utterly repugnant as far as I’m concerned) that I have an issue with.
Obviously, a few tens of thousands account for a miniscule proportion of the Chinese population…but that’s just the nature of opinion polls. If 48% of Americans questioned in a Gallup poll last year had strongly approved of Bush and Cheney, for instance (or some other point of view I find equally ridiculous), I would be pretty fucking perturbed, even if only the usual sample size of 1000-2000 people had been consulted.
truely a ANGLO JAP troll site if there ever was
deleting my other posts only shows your evilness
I think the fake Japanese troup riding donkeys through town with full miltary costumes to promote donkey meat was much better, haha. I don’t know why these girls would wear those shabby kimonos. They look more like evening robes. They would actually look much hotter in tight fitting cheongsams with the slits way up the side. Now, that would be nice! Then everyone can be happy. :) Maybe some nice black stiletto heals… :D
If you want to impress the Chinese girlfriend’s that you are apparently so desperate to have; you need to call it a qipao.
I went to eat sushi in a Japanese restaurant in Nanjing. It was full of drunk Japanese business men and the sushi was really very good. I felt strange sitting in a Japanese restaurant, surrounded by Japanese in Nanjing of all places. I wondered at the time if many Chinese would care about something like this. Some guys I met at a nightclub told me they DO mind but it isn’t worth doing anything about.
Another example of coward Chinese “patriots” attacking the weak.
They again make Chinese the laughing stock with their “bravery” and “love” for the motherland.
These so-called defenders of Chinese dignity will be the first to run if China were attacked.
chinasmackTheEVILdeekwadWeb- I suppose we could refer to any other site for the 50cent Party take on things.
Mag- I understand what you mean, but people from around the world still celebrate Octoberfest whether German or not. It’s good fun. If some guy wants a photos of him wearing lederhosen and eating a bratwurst in Belgium at a German pub, I doubt anybody would mind. This is similar.
Kai-”most people who DON’T care also usually DON’T comment”. I Agree…but this is the problem with this society. Nobody is outraged that these jackasses are making them look like stupid bigots. What in China is a ’small’ amouint of people is a whole town in most parts of the world.
While I too would like to see more anti-fenqing sentiment in China (and there actually is plenty, depending on where you look), I don’t think it’s a problem with this society. I think it’s a problem with every society. Like I said, I think most people just can’t be bothered with voicing their disagreement and arguing with others because most people are passive receivers. Commenters like you and myself, who for one reason or another actually care a lot about something enough to put the effort into expressing it, are actually part of the minority, in any society.
and it turns out they are wearing hanfu, and people in park just can’t tell the difference. (it kinda crazy how thin the line between traitor and ultra-nationalist is) hahahaha
“Wuhan University’s sakura cherry blossoms s were planted when the Japanese army occupied Wuhan and established their headquarters at Wuhan University. It is because of this that some countrymen with consciences would oppose those wearing kimonos here to take pictures. This thing must be viewed with respect to the issue’s historical background. If you do not know history, there is no need to rashly drag in Japanese products, dress, art, etc.”
That’s the point
The sakura themselves are a strong symbol of Japan, celebrating them is like celebrating Japan. Wuhan University has no problem making a lot of money off those Japanese planted trees. If people are insulted by those girls could they not just keep it to themslves or politely remind them of that history rather than acting like barbarians and bullying them? Compared to the rest of the world that suffered equally, if not more so than China, during WW2 and before, China still has a long ways to go in dealing with those issues.
“Compared to the rest of the world that suffered equally, if not more so than China, during WW2 and before”
I agree with the first part of your post but this shows you have been educated in the West, where a revisionist version of WW2 is being taught. You were taught to weep about the “6 millions” jews right? Nothing compared to the Chinese and Soviet citizens who died.
So, fl1999, anyone who suggests China wasn’t the only place that suffered greatly in WW2 must be a Westerner? Teaching about the Holocaust is historical revisionism? 6 million Jews was “nothing compared to the Chinese and Soviet citizens who died”? Really? You believe all of that?
I think all suffering should be recognized and sympathy felt for those who faced it. I don’t feel suffering can be quantified and if my previous posts suggested that it was only because many people in China like to play the “we suffered the most game”. How do you quantify suffering? Number of dead or hurt? Percentage of population affected? Length of suffering? Level of barbarity? Lasting effects? So many places and peoples suffered under Japan but China suffered the most?
Korea and Taiwan were occupied by Japan since the 1800s. Their men were executed or forced into hard labor, their women raped and forced to become comfort women, their culture, society, and institutions were ravaged much longer than in China. Other countries in Asia had more of their territory and much greater proportions of their populations affected than China did. Other countries in Asia were affected by Japan in such profound ways as to completely change the fabric of their society and culture. Some peoples were nearly oblitered from the earth by Japan.
Historical revisionism is “history differing from the accepted norm”. Which accepted norm of history does the Holocaust differ from? Which revised history do you assume Westerners are learning? The Holocaust’s place in the minds of people today isn’t because of revisionism, it’s because the people affected by the Holocaust were extremely good at telling their story. More, better movies have been made about the Holocaust than about the Nanjing Massacre.
Should people not be taught to weep for the wrongful death of one person, let alone 6 million? To you 6 million Jews is nothing compared to the Chinese and Soviets that died? So to you it’s all just a sum game? Country A had 6 million dead but country B had 7 million dead… so to you country A’s suffering is “nothing”. Ever thought that if 100% of a population of 10 million people was wiped out it might actually have greater impact than if 10% of a population of 100 million people was killed?
Do you really think anyone who points out countries other than China suffered in WW2 is a Westerner? Do you really think the Holocaust is part of Western historical revisionism and “nothing” compared to China and Russia’s suffering?
The issue at hand here is simply this: while the world accepts, honours and weeps for the victims of the Holocaust, the atrocities committed in China and other parts of Asia by the Japanese are neither acknowledged nor well recognised.
Many modern day Chinese you’ll find, hate the associations that go with the word “Japan” rather than actual people of Japan. This sometimes, unfortunately, stretches over to the more beautiful aspects of the Japanese culture, such as sakura appreciation. But though the blossom on the tree is different to the blood bloom on the flag; for one of their own to delight in the culture of that once oppressive and inhuman force, is simply unforgiveable to many. Especially when living physical memories of those times still walk, talk and live among us. Perhaps to the Chinese, Koreans and others within the Asia region, the hatred may simply be a reactionary balance to the perceived indifference elsewhere. Here’s a news event from the US which, despite living in Australia, I cannot say I recall seeing until now:
***
On 26 June 2007, the U.S. House of representatives Foreign Affairs Committee passed a resolution asking that Japan “should acknowledge, apologize and accept historical responsibility in a clear and unequivocal manner for its military’s coercion of women into sexual slavery during the war”.[62] On 30 July 2007, the House of Representatives passed the resolution, while Shinzo Abe said this decision was “regrettable”.[63]
***
Throughout the cities of Germany, you’ll find Jewish memorials everywhere. It is even a crime in Germany, Austria and many other European countries to deny the Holocaust. But where in Japan will you find memorials dedicated to the victims of their cruel campaign? At 92, my Grandfather is still alive to speak of witnessing a man being fried alive for entertainment on the streets of his town by the Japanese occupation forces. When you visualise that scene then perhaps you would tread more carefully where those issues lie.
I too like spring, sakura blossoms and watching the beauty of a world in birth. But until the day people come to know and understand the facts of that dark past, I and millions others like me will always be crusading for justice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Chang
I too hope that there will be day when for all people, the blossoms of the sakura will simply be that: a miracle of life.
I’ll go out on a limb here and take a wild guess that ‘the point’ you mentioned was not the motivating factor for the tens of thousands of netizens siding with the claim that the women’s kimonos were an ‘injustice to martyrs’.
There’s a China town in my country. Maybe we should be good patriots and chase the foreign devils out.
GROW UP
God; if you Chinese only had a fraction of the sophistication of the Japanese you would be a much more pleasant people.
Well that’s just preposterous, but as a Chinese I understand how common that kind of reaction is. In modern times the internet has facilitated too many idiots posing as “patriots” to force their retarded views on people. Tell me this, if some Japanese people dressed up in Chinese traditional clothing in Japan, would you throw a fit?
i cant believe that everyone is trying to justify this one way or another.
racism/prejudice/etc is WRONG, that’s all there is to it.
How strange that this is causing such an uproar when outdoor photos of Chinese couples in various European costumes is almost mandatory for Chinese newlyweds.
If people can not wear Kimono, I think Chinese people should not be able to go to KTV as it come from Japan.
Stupidity… 47.66% of sohu people… give me hope of China…
I do not think those are Japanese kimonos but rather ancient Chinese women’s robes, perhaps Han dynasty. The belt (obi for kimono) and sleeves look all wrong to be Japanese. So maybe these ladies are owed an apology?
aehhhh.. i quest how long it will take when chinese will start to kill people for wearing red quard clothes?
China was broken up by european powers. Chinese were denied entry into the US and made to be slaves on the railroad. Now they wear bluejeans and watch hollywood movies and many young girls will sleep with a man if he is white. Where is the self respect? Many Chinese think bowing is Japanese. With the exception of the swords, everything Japanese is really Chinese. How quickly they forget the culture they destroyed. What a shame to their anscestors. Yet, thankfully there is a growing resurgence in culture among the next generation. As they have money, they are investing in their education. Chinese medical research is proving ancient theories and the government is actively teaching ancient traditions on CCTV. China will have a new Tang dynasty, but until then they will always feel inferior to and hate the Japanese.
Hello,
I’m doing research on how American foreign policy affects popular support for terrorism. My theory is that America’s hegemonic activity fuels popular support for terrorism, but I need data to support that hypothesis. I plan to conduct a large international survey in order to collect that data. Before I conduct the survey, however, I need to devise a survey instrument that is non-biased (non-western, non-white). I strongly believe that the biggest reason that America is losing the war on terror is that we aren’t listening to the people that matter the most—everyone else. The same principal applies to my survey: it won’t do any good if I’m not asking the right questions.
So I’m asking for your help.
I’ve put together a pre-survey questionnaire to help fashion a survey that hopefully will ask the right questions― one that takes culture, race, religion, and gender issues into consideration rather than just making the same old geopolitical assumptions that political scientists in my field tend to make. I’m particularly interested in incorporating the views of women, non-whites, and people living outside of America and Western Europe. The final survey will go out once the pre-survey data has been collected and analyzed.
The survey can be accessed at
http://www.johnmaszka.com/SURVEY.html
Would you please post the link on your site and ask your readers to do the same? I’d really appreciate it if you shared the link with others. But most importantly, please take a moment and fill out the pre-survey yourself.
Thank you!
Take care,
John Maszka
I remember someone selling kimonos to tourists on the Great Wall–I asked if they were Chinese and the vendor said yes.
What wrong with wearing clothes from another country??? Tsk, wars happened and it painful, yes, but hell, it been over half a century. Move on…
Not wrong. But when too few people wearing Hanfu are known or paid attention to and media prominently highlights any incidents of Kimono being worn, the conscientious will wonder if a form of cultural imperialism has occurred and respond in whatever way they can.
Moving on is happening, but Japan while making solid moves under PM Yukio, like not visitng the Japanese Yasukini Shrine which has Class 1 War Criminals among it’s enshrined, has yet to made statement or compensation to Nanjingers or Korean Comfort Corps, equitable to the sincere manner in which Germany has declared it’s contrition to Europe for Nazi Fascism.
So for the Chinese it is not time to ‘move on’ yet. As mentioned, progress towards normalization has been facilitated but still too slow . . .
Am I the only one to notice that they weren’t even proper Kimonos? The style and they way they were wearing it didn’t look like Kimonos at all. They look more like a sloppily worn Hanfu. Maybe they were trying to bring in a new trend, wear Hanfu while viewing cherry blossums?
it’s not a question of moving on. it’s a question of justice. and the fact that japan has never officially apologized is a source of (understandable) pain.
meanwhile, the same offended country is colonizing and exploiting tibet and xinjiang, while i walk the streets of beijing wondering whether this or that middle aged person used to be a red guard, and if so, whether they merely tortured, killed or even ate someone?