在过去的几十年里，全世界的人常常取笑我们美国人在很多事情上都是很无知的。其中之一就是美国人通常没有意识到自己究竟是如何影响这个世界的。批评家指出我们通常认为世界是爱我们的，但事实上却并非如此。但现在看来，美国已经找到了另一个可以与它竞争“世界最迟钝国家”的对手—中国！
根据最新的一份由美国马里兰州大学和Globescan共同开展的民意调查表明，有92%的中国人认为中国给世界带来的影响是正面的积极的，但是在接受调查的另外20个国家中只有39%的人拥有同样的看法。在所有接受调查的国家之中，并且就这一问题上，中国是本国人看法与其他国家的人看法相差最大的国家。（随着去年其他国家对中国的好感日益降低，相信这个差距将会变得更大）
与此同时，这个民意调查的结果却让我们美国人反而看起来头脑是非常清醒的。调查表明，有60%的美国人认为美国给这个世界带来的影响是正面的积极的，而有43%的来自其他20个国家的人认为美国带来的影响是负面的。这和中国相比已经算是小的差距了。（值得注意的是，自这份民意调查开展五年以来，这是中国就在对世界的积极影响这一问题上排名首次低于美国）
对于我来说，这个民意调查让我们看到了这个世界和中国交流互动的有趣一面。那就是中国人自己看待中国和其他国家看待中国的差别。大多数中国人深信不疑地认为中国在世界上是仁慈的。在住在中国的十年时间里，我就亲身感受到了这一点。同样，在我跟中国官员频繁且友好的交往中也经常会有这种感觉。
为什么呢？
第一，我认为中国对于自身的宣传是非常成功的；中国人通常都认同政府所说的中国的崛起是对世界其他国家有利的。他们坚信中国永远也不会去侵略别的国家等等。
电影《功夫熊猫》之所以能在中国取得那么高的票房，其中某一个原因就是因为中国人觉得熊猫阿宝的故事和他们的祖国是很相似的。中国人认为他们就像是龙战士，被全村的人敬爱。而让这种情况变得更糟糕的原因是通常只有很少有关中国的负面报道能进入中国，其中那些能被看到的负面新闻也常常被中国网友认为是反华的表现。
第二，世界对中国的崛起的反感也有部分源于对中国人的种族歧视及中国强大后的焦虑。任何一个新的强大起来的国家都会引起别人的关注，同样中国也无法避免，甚至可能会得到更多的批评及侮辱，其中包含了其他国家人的无知及对于亚洲人的讨厌。
也有一些中国的作者，比如像《南方周末》专栏作家鄢烈山曾经就讨论过中国本身和其他世界看待中国的差距所带来的危险。他的文章很受欢并且很有说服力，来参考一下：
据报道，全国政协委员、外交部副部长武大伟，在接受记者采访谈到国民出游形象问题时，表示不同意“陋习说”、“丢人说”，他道是：“你看在机场里、 餐厅 里，大家聚一块（大声）说话的，都是中国人。可这就是一种习惯，我们还看不惯外国人那种小声嘀嘀咕咕、当着面还要相互咬耳朵呢。”对武副部长此言我期期以 为不然。
像鄢烈山这种微不足道的声音是根本没什么办法阻止中国对于共产党的凯旋论的。
Peking Duck （北京烤鸭）的评论：
Richard:
对于美国排第二名我并不感到惊讶。任何一个花了很多时间在国外（或在网上看了很多外国杂志）的人都知道美国在世界人的眼里有多么的丑陋，不像我们自己觉得自己很仁慈，并且对待朋友是非常无私的。我从我年少年的时候就看透了这点，但我常常怀疑为什么那么多中国人都不愿意考虑到他们自己看自己和世界的人看他们是会不一样的可能性。
JXie:
被选中参与调查的国家中有不公平的现象。比如在印度，土耳其和孟加拉国有4亿穆斯林（人数差不多和北美一样多），但这三个国家却没有被选择参与调查。非洲就有9亿人，欧洲包括俄罗斯只有7亿，非洲国家的份额是不成比列的。在南美有3亿人，但只有智利这个小国家被选中。所以总结来说，这个民意调查所选中的国家比较指向于我们平时所说的所谓的“西方国家”。
MichaelTurton:
Richard，我想问题不单单只是宣传，而是中国人的文化和心态貌导致他们不会像欧洲和美国那样经常会自我批评，也不像西方人或美国会常常怀疑自己国家的文化和行为对世界的影响。当美国人打败了印第安人并再去菲律宾开拓殖民地的时候，那时有一股很强的反对势力，其中就有像马克吐温等等这样的代表，他们认为西方人并不是天生就优越于其他人的，因为在过去的某一段时间内，西方也曾落后于过其他国家。但是不管在中国国内或国外，却很少有人会去反对汉族是最强的这个想法，最多也就是一些个别人士而绝非一些有影响的团体或组织。让我个人感到非常奇怪的是，那些经常出去旅游或者长时间住在别的国家的人为什么还是会觉得中国是最好的。
这个倒是应该引起更多人的讨论。。。。。。
ecodelta:
政府对于媒体的管制和审查制度的严格让人很难有机会讨论中国内部及外部一些相对较黑暗的方面。所以有可能大多数普通的民众并不知道存在的问题，并且乐在其中。
把自己放在受害者的位置或者再加点所谓的民族主义就能很容易让人失去理智并完全忽略为什么被批评的原因。
当他们出国的时候突然发现别人对自己的看法和他们对自己的看法不一样的时候，他们先会很吃惊然后只能接受，对他们来说得最有力最有合理的解释就是要么就是不喜欢亚洲人或者就是阴谋论，这样的想法只能使他们的头脑更封闭。
奥运圣火就是个例子。我能感觉很多中国人对于别的国家欢迎他们的方式感到太意外了。对他们来说他们宁愿选择不去了解其中的原因，而是自然的回到了他们固有的想法。
那有什么解决方案呢？只要政府永远觉得言论自由和出版自由是会威胁到他们的，那就永远也不会有解决方案。而永远会有的是疯狂的民族主义危险，而这种危险只有减少及限制政府解决问题的办法。
AndyR:
@Michael和 Richard
批评的声音是存在的，说中国文化缺自我批评能力太笼统了。比如韩寒劝大家在对待抵制家乐福这件事时要冷静呢？ 虽然我觉得他有点…??，但这个年轻的作者却拥有一大群的支持者，而这些人又看他的博客。我觉得这是个很好的例子用来和马克吐温做比较，很明显中国也有很多批评家。
但是共产党的影响力大多了，他们能控制人的交流。但是我觉得他们已经开始慢慢放弃控制人民对于信息的接受了，比如列宁曾说“谎话说上一千遍也会变成真话”（我不是说这现在不用了），取而代之的是开始控制信息是如何传播的及如何利用信息的传播。连人民日报的论坛每天都会有批评的评论出现。但这些言论究竟能传播开吗？不。。。这不是因为人们没听见，而是因为一般的人民除了“顶“下楼主（就是说他同意那帖子），他们其实并不能干什么。
另外个问题是，中国的那些知识分子从1949年起就被强制分到学校当老师了，这些最应该有怀疑精神的人已经没有言论自由了。而那些成功人士大部分都是党的走卒，像“中国可以说不”的作者。如果他们是批评家那在国外自然能得到更多的注意。共产党已经确定在他们的管理下不会再有像鲁迅那样的人出现了，（而像鲁迅和那些伟大的思想家的人都被中国政府弄得像木乃伊一样，而真正的思想家是鼓励人去怀疑的，而不是做那些给共产党写东西的“有名作者”）
重点是我同意我们必须脱离那种对中国媒体宣传的传统看法，而且我们还要小心我们不能利用中国的文化说中国是不允许被批评的，很明显这是可以的。那么为什么中国人对自己国家的看法那么好不是因为他们没见过批评的看法，而是对国家这些批评的看法被各种复杂的办法变成无害的。
AndyR:
还有，我想看个关于中国人在中国对民意调查有什么看法的调查。我想知道中国人是用心考虑到自己的经验再回答，还是像“高考”一样按照的“正确”的答案填写，还是像网上不管是不是自己的经验就随便填写那个他们“喜欢“的答案。。。我相信我们大家填写民意调查的时候都不一样，虽然我上面说了我不太接受“ 文化”的解释，我很想知道中国人是不是这样回答的。
Peter:
如果你看像鲁迅这样的作家和其他五四青年思想家，你会发现中国人是很能自我批评的，连现在网上都会经常出现这种类型的文章。但那些自我批评不是“我们在世界上做了什么不好的事”，而是“我们有什么文化缺点害我们变得那么弱”。
mike:
我觉得这个民意调查完全是错的。就像那些关于世界最舒服的城市的“民意调查”，他利用几个简单的数字解释很复杂和主要的问题。在我有限的经验里，大多中国人挺了解世界是怎么看中国的。但他们不愿意对外人承认。这有点像父亲打母亲的一家人。是，他们知道这种事有发生，但他们宁愿要家庭的面子，特别是对外人的时候。
相反这个民意调查，我觉得大多中国人有一种深深的自卑感和怨恨，从关于19世纪外国人怎么侮辱中国和现在还在艺术方面中国落后于日本的原因。这种“中国是很完美”的想法是一种过度补偿。
Peter:
@richard
“不是中国完全没做错，而是中国根本不存在错的。”
嗯，这说得好。我建议谁对中国教育和中国教育方法有兴趣去：
http://www.pep.com.cn/
看看他们网上免费提供的样品书。里面完全塞满了这种东西。
这让我想起我有一次从学生收到个文章是解释中国人很谦虚的原因，因为他们不觉得自己是世界上最聪明的因为对他们来说犹太人才是最聪明的，是天才。排第一的是他们，举的例子包括爱因斯坦和马克思（像他给世界带来了好的影响），再者，中国人有五千年的历史。排在第三名好的是白人。当我问着学生谁是排第四名的时候，他不太确定，可能是因为没排到前三名就没什么大区别了。听说这学生是从新闻报纸上看来的（而她说是个严肃的报纸）。我没浪费我时间问她是哪个。
amadeus:
作为中国人，我想说：不是我们学生觉得我们中国人是世界上最聪明的人，我们和你们一样，比如说那些教师在外国大学觉得中国人是最聪明的人。也许你会问为什么。我跟你说为什么吧，因为中国学生在教室里不跟其他学生互动也很少问问题，但永远都是得到A成绩。然后那些教师就开始想：神秘的亚洲。
Richard:
Amadeus的评论是获奖的。让我加：黑人很会跳舞和每个银行是犹太人控制的。
Lindel:
不久前我跟个中国汉族人说了邓小平是客家人。他立刻变成很愤怒。
所以我就不再说了。
jsyang:
你知不知道客家人是什么？他们是当时北方被侵略的时候从黄河的北方迁移到长江南方的汉族中国人。他们不是另外个少数民族，如果那是你的意思。不仅邓小平连毛泽东也是客家人。任何一个中国人上过中学的都知道的。
请你别为了你的观点而乱编故事。
jer:
@Lindel
客家人是汉族人。所以我完全不知道为什么那个人为什么会那么”生气”。
yourfriend:
这帖子里，说到底，是很多很中国的男子百人挖到公元前64世纪找乒乓朝代做的种族歧视为了证明他们说的邪恶的谎言的是有理由的。他们是多疑的，缺乏自信的，充满仇恨，一边有亚洲人变态的恋物一边又是十分的泛雅利安人新纳粹。这全是因为当他们点的左宗棠鸡出来时候冷了他们就开始怀疑有邪恶的种族主义的中国阴谋。哎呀！没得到特殊待遇！种族圣战开始吧！
事实是没有阴谋，还有那些“邪恶的汉族中国人”其实大多挺良心的和谦虚的。但你可能需要去乡下忍受你一辈子从来没体验过的可怕猴船尾第三世界的生活环境才能找到这些难找的8亿农村中国人。或简单点你可以离开上海就能找到5.03亿的友谊的中国市民。
请注意：上面有的挑选出来的英语的回答是不完整的，有些不相关的部分我也没翻译。
通告：由于我已经受够了我们网站上目前的一些西方反华者，所以我决定从今天开始不再翻译中国网友的评论让他们侮辱及嘲笑，从今天开始我只翻译西方网友关于中国的评论，让中国人也看看西方是怎么看和理解我们的。让我们一起把那些反华的西方人都人肉出来报仇吧。
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Chinese Netizen Questions For Obama During His Visit 
I see you’ve flipped the script and done the opposite; translated from English to Chinese. What gives? :)
@Zhangsan
hint: What day is it today?
我的中文不好。 如果没有拼音input 我不回写汉字。 如果没有 Google Translate 我不动这个。 >_<
The counter argument: is that western media is just like the CCTV media, bias and full of propaganda.
This is why there are disagreement between what Chinese people and the world believe.
More importantly, the US for all its “democracy” only gets 43% compare to 39%.
Every country see themselves as the best.
that counter argument is stupid. the chinese government has such strict control of the news, in no way does it resemble western media.
i love how you clump ‘western media’ together. like china vs. the world. you realize there are hundreds of nations west of china, right?
or east… i guess it depends how you look at it
It doesnt change the fact that western media are bais.
How many western media outlet tell the truths on the Tibetan story?
Look at fox news and their omg neo con war hawk rant every single day.
With bias reports on China, it is no wonder that the people of the world have a false image of what the real China is like. Not perfect I mind you, but definitely not what the western media portrayed.
PS: the western media are also bias on the Georgia-Russian war to give russia a one sided bad image. When in reality, Georgia was the one that started the war.
Western media, is as pathetic as CCTV in my opinion. But if people are smart enough, they can look at these different outlets, and come up with their own conclusion.
Why is western media “pathetic”? Every country has crappy digestibal news. However i read western media which is enourmasly self critical. I see news outlets trying to sting politions and leaders with corruption with impunity. I see popular mainstrem news which is against “the west” most of the time, arguing for Russia’s position and attacking Isreal and our foriegn policy. Most importantly i see a huge amount of variety in opinions and analysis in newpapers which i consider to have good quality and standards.
Saying that 24 hour news channels are crap and dismissing western news is like saying a countries fluffy action movies make its documentries crap. Read the Economist, Speigil, New York Times, Guardian, ect
People and countries have bias’s but i could not ask the news available to be better quality, to be self critical, to act with assurdness that they can say or investgate whatever they want, or to be more varied in idelogy.
Yes, you should always read foriegn and domestic news because it helps your perspective and it will correct you. However i don’t think Western news is just a clone of Chinese news slanted in a different way, i do think its better. Sorry.
ming, for years russia has been doing everything short of annexing ossetia to encourage the separtists to succeed. even handing out russian passports and declaring that the separtists are in fact russian citizens.
russia had amassed its troops on georgias border long before the start of the war, and were waiting for the chance to engage.
> How many western media outlet tell the truths on the Tibetan story?
You mean the thing about how China is only doing this to stop slavery in Tibet? No, they reported that. I don’t know many who believe that, but it has been reported.
Now, how many Chinese media show pictures of police beating monks and peaceful protesters? Mind you, we have video. Heck, I think you can find it on YouTube (and I think they ‘harmonized’ YouTube in China for a while a bit ago because of some such video).
Yes, there are biased sources of news. But most people think that FOX doesn’t actually qualify as news. The people who listen to it do so because it tells them what they want to hear, not because it’s true. There are also people who disbelieve everything FOX says, simply because of its reputation.
It’s worse that the Western media is biased than the Chinese media is biased. The latter is biased because of government intervention. The former is biased because of the free market. What does it say about the average Westerner, then?
Western media are nothing but propaganda pieces for the elites. Sure, they appear to be self-critical. The reality is, all their agendas are used to keep the status-quo. They are elitist themselves.
They brainwash the public into believing to go along with society… they sell whatever this f*** image… this dream… this b.s. It is a feedback system… they feed the public b.s., then the b.s. believes in it… and gets deeper and deeper in this hole. Then, the media takes the public’s degenerate b.s. and sell that… so it just keeps on growing.
The Chinese media is the same crap… it’s only different on a very superficial level. Both media system props the SICK F***IN system up like some sick undead monster.
F***K it all. Let anarchy rule I say!
“How many western media outlet tell the truths on the Tibetan story? ”
What are “the truths”? Do you mean the nightmare vision of pre-Communist Tibet painted by the CCP that serious academics don’t actually agree with?
No doubt plenty of Westerners are starry-eyed, deluded idealists when it comes to Tibet, but I’ve not met a single Chinese person who is anywhere close to knowing “the truths”, and the fact that youtube is still blocked in China isn’t doing anything to change that.
So… Maybe CS will be nominated for the best blog in Chinese this year?
Hehe, nice one (^_^)
Why is this blog in Chinese, isnt the goal of Chinasmack is to translate Chinese internet news and articles to english for a international audiences…
And this article is kind of… nor worth posting…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_fool%27s_day
Eh, seems like a lot of translation effort for ‘just’ an April Fool’s joke :)
西方人脑子是不是进水了！整天吃饱了没事干，对中国指手划脚 中国又没折腾你们!
居然还有人认为中国人的自大来与“邪恶的汉民族主义”！？汉族自古都是礼仪之邦,开放与包容的民族！现在的中国人不都是被西方那两个性”马”性”列”的给害了。文化丢失，道德沦丧，国土沦陷都不是你们西方人搞的鬼。
Is thei fckin APril fools joke?
He he he. This is a good one ;-)
I like the idea.
Turn the mirror in reverse way.
The reflection of our reflection.
Interesting. Food for thought
When we look into a mirror we do not get to see the mirror itself but our own reflection returned through it.
We find ourselves looking at our own image, but through the optical effect and distortions of the mirror.
Maybe that is what happen when we look at China.
why in chinese, cant read properly
哈哈，你中文都挡掉啦。。。 ＥＰＩＣ-FAIL BABE.
操，我还说你哪，我中文也很懒。。。可是我中文课没得Ｃ呀！！！ 我跟本没学过！
Is a joke funny if you can’t read it? (For the record, I enjoyed it).
She wrote at the bottom: NOTICE: Because I’ve had it up to here with Anti-China westerners posting on here, from today I’m only translating their posts into Chinese so we can all see how westerners view and understand us, and together use the human flesh search engine to expose these anti-China posters.
This is an ENGLISH article translated into Chinese.
If you bother reading the source, right at the top of the page, you get
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/pomfretschina/2009/03/china_loves_itself_more_than_the_world.html
I heartily support whatever is going on here and think we should root out the perpetrators and expose them! Happy April Fool’s!
我本人决的这个世界好无聊呀！
她/他妈的。。。。
但是，有 大 ============MA2……………………………………………… 还好过一点！！！
大飞！ 特飞！
我真的是个好人，我很多是后都是在蛋BI…不要理我。
我爱你们！！！
讲得对,不要里你
哪理来的脏坏孩子。 滚蛋！
China and US are nothing compared to how Russians view themself, that’s why half of the world’s neonazis are in Russia.
btw 图中的小妞很骚。
I just want to touch on the biased media argument. All opinions have some biases. It is impossible to make any kind of “un-biased reporting”. The difference between a lot of western countries(lets use America) and China is that we are fed news from every imaginable angle. We get right wing, left wing, anarchist, whatever(true the more popular views get Tv time *damn you fox news* but that’s just business, can’t be cutting into my Heroes and Prison break time). The only serious limitations on it are blatant lies and character deformation. This compared to China, news which is strictly controlled by the government. Limiting or “retouching” articles and opinions before they are fed out on one of the government controlled TV channels or other media. This is the key difference.
I agree 100%.
But to look at CCTV and call it propaganda, and only trusting western news is really inappropriate.
And for reply in earlier post, NO one tells the truth on the tibetan story, or the Russian story. No one. If you want the truth, you have to come up with your own conclusion.
I never called it propaganda. I think the news in China is just not multi-dimensional. It lacks any serious challenges to beliefs or non-conformist views. Propaganda is common in China (I would point out that airplane story that was posted a few weeks ago), but to make a blanket term out of it to refer to all Chinese news is simply wrong. I do think China will become a more politically empathetic nation by allowing debates between groups like Taiwanese separatists and Mainland nationalists. Same with Tibet. I’m not saying that they should give these people what they want. But it is very important to know both sides of the argument, because these hardline, uncompromising policies will not work on the world stage as China steps up.
Key example: I can get hardline anti-American news in American.
旁边的中文广告实在是太囧了！
Western countries worry about China’s economic and political rise with suspicion is because China doesn’t fit any of their models for a country with transparency, accountability and system of government.
China is moving rapidly in economic rationalism and everything else takes a back seat such as political and social reforms.
Western media perceives China using their experience as their yardstick to measure China against. These countries developed from barbarians to mercantilism/colonist to pacifist mature western civilization of thousands of years.
Since China is not following their model of economic development, these western media scorn at China to try and change its path.
China has spent the last 400 hundred years consolidating and reclaiming its sovereignty from Russia, 8 powers, treaty ports, HK, Macau. It is spending the next couple of decades developing its economy where it should rightfully be without the wars and foreign invasions. It has its sights on reuniting Taiwan with the motherland. That is the last major missing puzzle in its geopolitical structure.
It has learnt much from Russia’s experience with the falling out of the USSR when they throw everything into the works, free markets, political reforms, oligarchs and it has turned out into a basket case full of soviet gustos who wish to return Russia to the soviet days.
See… that’s what I don’t get about these views of yours…it’s frankly … absurd, lolz.
I mean it takes two to tango, right? Ｄｏｅsn’t that mean that we all have to play together, on this global playground? China can’t do it all by herself. So you have to take in others viewpoints, right?
Of course, if everyone else is a belligerent drunk red-neck… then that’s a different story.
A lot of that is very true in my opinion.
Reclaiming? Reclaiming what? Most of this real estate was given back due to prior arrangements or ability on the part of the non-Chinese side.
No, the next puzzle will be the south CHINA seas. I don’t know why Mongolia hasn’t been in the crosshairs? I have heard Chinese people tell me that Mongolians want to be a part of China.
在网上用汉语表达这么多中国ZF接受不了的观点，我估计这博克马上就会被审查了。
am I supposed to be fooled or what ? with washington post everyday is april 1st.
I am fully aware that what I read affects me, for instance I will read the Daily Telegraph everyday and as a result I am great deal more conservative; how ever I will more than happily listen to the liberal mouth piece the which is the BEEB (BBC)or the socialist rag that is the Guardian, with out throwing a shit fit. They may contradict what my own paper and alligences tell me, and I may not like what they say, however, I will not dismiss them out of hand as being based on fiction or the work of the CIA, Dalli click, Nationalist, Carrefour and Croissants De France alliance.
I will give the nationalistic outpourings of CCTV more credit, when I can happily pick up a copy of the Chinese version of Private Eye; hopefully highlighting corruption and mismanagement from my local corner paper stand.
Cheers for reading my rant.
this has gone political, again! should we be taking about the girl in the photo???
“(China) is spending the next couple of decades developing its economy (to) where it should rightfully be without the wars and foreign invasions” !!
Are you having a laugh?
Q: Where would the Chinese economy be if it weren’t for Foreign Direct Investment?
A: Doesn’t bear consideration.
Where was the Chinese economy when it was shut it off to the world, at the time decieving their popluation with stories of “they are starving in the west!” There was no western intervention then…so is this where the Chinese economy “should righfully be?”
Why were there treaty ports in the first place?
Because China refused to do business with the rest of the world! Now I am not suggesting that the rest of the world should have forced themsleves on China but I dare to argue that had they not, your “righfully” powerful economy would still not have materialised.
No one can possibly think for a second that Chinese economic might is in any way self-created or “hard earned” or somehow “due” to them for any reason at all.
Where would Honk Kong be if it weren’t for the British Administration? Can’t anyone in this country see that what was built there was the result of a lot of hard work by Chinese people yes, but more importantly the result of a solid, stable, transparent, and fair system of government and law based on Western experience. If it weren’t for the British Administration, Hong Kong would be another worn-out fishing port like you see anywhere along the Pearl River Delta or like Zhu Hai twenty years ago!
“Righfully” my elbow. It’s not like the “west” held them back during the cultural revolution either. “Wars and foreign invasions!” Tell me anything that can compare with the impact of long-term, systematic destruction of intellectual capability, cultural heritage and overall financial mismanagement.
“Rightfully?” By all rights China should have imploded years ago but it I would argue that it has been saved by its integration with the West. Not grown up in spite of it.
Now some of what I said seems a bit tough but really, China’s growth and development needs to give a fair bit of credit to the west. Sometimes it seems to me that the Chinese are at their best when confronted by something external that forces them to cooperate with each other – albeit with Chinese characteristics. Left to themselves however, things can fall into a messy heap pretty bloody fast.
Yes. Exactly. The sooner that gets translated into Chinese and learned by rote in Chinese middle-schools the better.
To add to your point, it’s not just in the last few decades that foreign investment has benefited China. From old China hand Carl Crow’s book “Foreign Devils in the Flowery Kingdom”, published in 1940:
” When the treaty of Nanking was negotiated in 1842 the British demanded a small plot of ground at Shanghai where they could build a settlement for British traders…The Chinese picked out a spot which was of the least value to themselves and at the same time one that would not encourage the red-faced foreigners to make a prolonged stay. The site was a mud flat. The foreshore was flooded with every high tide; the hinterland was covered with mosquito-infested rice fields.”
Strangely, I’ve never heard any of the Chinese people mention anything about the fact that the city which is most emblematic of the nation’s economic rise is essentially a foreign creation. Clearly, it stokes their victim-complex a lot more effectively to bleat about how ‘my’ British terrorized China in the Opium wars without mentioning this side of things.
Agree with some of what you said, but China was the most powerful economy in the world before the founding of the treaty ports and had been for some time. The reason that Europeans wanted to “open” China was because they wanted a piece of the action. Europe’s intervention in China’s trade actually slowly weakened the Chinese economy and eventually its government, it’s completely false history that the West “opened” the Chinese economy to the “world”. China already had thriving trading ties with its neighbors and yes even the West via intermediary nations, however, Europeans by coming to China and taking over trade routes and eventually treaty ports, were doing so to fight trade imbalances, China was dominating world exports then like it does today, and Europe has nothing the Chinese wanted except money, so they had to 1. first buy their way into China with American silver and 2. later force their way in militarily. China never really benefited from Western intervention at that time despite what your history book tells you. The “opening” of China was in fact a harbinger of decline.
However, you have more of a case when talking about the recent “opening” of China by Nixon and later Deng…China has definitely benifited from Western investment as well as Japanese, Taiwanese, and Hong Kong investment, however, all credit is falsely given to the CCP for China’s recent rise (of course).
Oh and I got that information from a WESTERN history book, not a Chinese one…try ReOrient by Andre Gunder Frank or Europe and the People without History by Eric Wolf (not that you would have any desire to), so don’t try the lame you’re just brainwashed by Chinese propaganda rebuttal.
One more thing, the final proof that the West was not “naturally” more endowed than China and thus was able to dominate it, is that it took nearly 4 centuries for the West to finally turn China into a semi-colony. If the West was so much more advanced and smarter than the Chinese why weren’t they able to just walk in and take the country over? Instead, they had to 1. pay their way in 2. colonize India and the surrounding nations 3. industrialize 4. “drug” the Chinese people with the Opium trade-and they still in the end only got a few measly treaty ports. Seems to me China was pretty damn strong, but you’re right the West was just too much for the Chinese…ridiculous, open a history book that wasn’t written half a century ago. *Sigh* fenqing or fenwai, both equally frustrating and ignorant.
In one breath many will argue with pride that China is one giant cohesive entity that has existed without interuption for 5,000 years. In the next breath the same individuals will argue that China is the poor Han people fighting against Western barbarians, Tibetan marauders, Mongol Hordes, Manchu intruders, Miao bandits. Those people need to make up their minds. Is the Qing Dynasty the pride of Chinese Imperial expansion or the tyranical rule of a bunch of foreigners from the north? Was the Yuan Dynasty China at it’s most powerful or China at its weakest, ruled by barbaric Central Asians? Was the Republic a native-born Chinese revolt against Qing corruption or foreign-born Western inspired and funded revolution? History is rarely black or white. Usually it’s some gray hue in the middle.
Biggest does not always equal most “powerful”.
This thread is dead…but I want to get the last word in…
No one said anything about 5000 years of history, so if you want to make that argument you are barking up the wrong tree. The fact is China (under the Qing) was the most powerful economy in the world at the time of European trade expansion into the East. It’s indisputable no matter what semantics game you want to play, biggest/most powerful, the fact remains that China was the global leader at that point in history, and Europe was not…end of story, no grey area. Does this fact diminish the accomplishments that the West made to catch up to China? No. After four centuries of advancement we eventually won our way in and became the dominant global power. But to say that the West “opened” China and was somehow more naturally endowed from the outset is absolutely false, and equally as propagandist as claims to a glorious 5000 year history. Competition with China and the East drove the West to be great, we live in a globalized economy now, and we were living in one then. I’m not Chinese, so it’s not pride that drives this argument, its just a hatred of ignorance from both sides of this argument, I hate the Chinese who like to ignorantly say that China has 5000 years of a great historical tradition, and I hate the Westerners to like to think that Europe was able to dominate the globe through some inherent “European” ingenuity.
Seems you are arguing with yourself?
朋友们, All Fools’ Day 快乐！
“而让这种情况变得更糟糕的原因是通常只有很少有关中国的负面报道能进入中国，其中那些能被看到的负面新闻也常常被中国网友认为是反华的表现.”
You’re dang right. Chinese have a very very hard time “putting themselves in other people’s shoes”. This is a skill we Americans are TAUGHT from a very young age. Chinese don’t know how to take ‘constructive’ criticism at all.
For example, a girl I know simply would not listen to anything I said about 6/4. She gave me the typical line: “Oh, your American government would do the same thing if they were about to be overthrown!” I said, “we never had anything like 6/4 (no, Kent State is nothing like 6/4, I’m not gonna waste my breath on it) happen in our history – and that is BECAUSE our government is made up of the people! We represent it! What are we gonna do? Overthrow ourselves? Install a dictatorship??” Anyway, I realized it was a waste of breath to talk about 20th century Chinese ‘mistakes’ with her… But a few months later, surprise, she actually said to me, “Yeah, I agree with what you said about 6/4 now. Our gov’t never should have slaughtered those citizens that way – it was wrong.”
I wondered why she changed her mind. She said that she had a new boss at work that spent many years in America. There he learned the truth, not propaganda about 6/4 and came back to China with all sorts of new opinions about the gov’t here. (I guess he experienced freedom. Those who haven’t tasted it can’t talk **** about what it isn’t, because they are truly clueless)
Anyway, the point of the story is that for a Chinese to believe something, it’s gotta be from ANOTHER Chinese person telling them that. When a white faced foreigner tells them something they will always be dismissed as “you don’t know China.” They will never be taken seriously or believed. Sorry, but that’s the reality. Even for “Fauna” this is the above is true too. Read her “Notice” here: 通告：由于我已经受够了我们网站上目前的一些西方反华者，所以我决定从今天开始不再翻译中国网友的评论让他们侮辱及嘲笑，从今天开始我只翻译西方网友关于中国的评论，让中国人也看看西方是怎么看和理解我们的。让我们一起把那些反华的西方人都人肉出来报仇吧。 If you can’t understand it, plug it into an online translator. It’s worth understanding what the webmaster really thinks about democratic style postings on her website.
你的发言印证了你的无知和傲慢。如果你国家（从你的发言看是美国）的人多数都和你有同样想法的话，那确实很可悲。
1. 你从一个女孩子的看法推广到了所有中国人的看法，这很荒诞。总是试图stereotype其他国家的人是很多你们国家人的通病。尚没有比较全面的了解一个国家的历史和现状，仅仅从你了解的几个事件就推断出”中国是怎么样的”和“中国人是怎样的”。你的世界观就像你们国家的快餐一样，急于求成但缺乏内涵，总是鲁莽地把其他国家的情况生硬地用你们的逻辑体系来解释，如果解释不通就简单归咎对方被洗脑而不是认真了解双方意识分歧的来源。这是无知和傲慢。
2. 你说中国人不会putting themselves in other people’s shoes. 但你不知道有个中国人在耶稣诞生之前就说过“己所不欲勿施于人”。 你又说你们从小就被教育接受这个道理。我笑了。你知道你们的军队在伊拉克屠杀了多少无辜的平民吗？难道你们的军队在你的国家也是这么干的？难怪伊拉克记者朝你们的总统扔鞋子，原来他想让你们的总统试试把自己放在伊拉克人的鞋子里感觉一下滋味。
3. 你又强调你们的政府来自人民，代表人民。我不笑了，我很恐慌。我们政府做的混蛋事情要他们自己负责，而你们政府做的混蛋事情却是你们四亿人民的意愿！地球人都恐慌了。
4. 你最后引用了Fauna的一段话并号召大家去翻译下。看来你阅读中文从中嗅到深层次含义的能力有待提高。也许这正是你有种种误解的一个原因，建议你耐心地多练习你的阅读。但是，首先请放下你的“快餐世界观”，否则你的“建设性批评”不仅会被对方当作笑柄，更要命的是它对你自己的身心健康是有害的。
LoL, “democratic style postings”…
Dude, you’re an idiot. That was part of the April Fool’s joke.
can’t believe you suckers took this seriously, it was 1st april when Fauna posted this, get a fucking calendar.
Well let the search engines roll bitches F to the C to the U to the K Chimates, let’s see you translate that into monkey talk.
LOL
maybe the goverment of china will come here ,and then,^&**((()))
China IS the new America, it thinks it’s the only country in its hemisphere!!!
I don’t get why to so many in China this is a Chinese Media vs Western Media thing; I actually do know why, it’s simple and makes it a pity party of unfair treatment by the overbearing and mean West rather than a serious comparison between China and the real world. It shouldn’t be China vs the West, it should be China vs. the Rest. Japan, Singapore, Korea, India, etc. etc. all have quality free press. Why doesn’t China compare it’s amazing unbiased press to those in the East? All media/press have biases based on their governments and money but China’s press is really beyond compare. Stop with the “their media is bad so don’t point out how bad our’s is” bullshit. It’s pathetic!
This message is from the Cyber Watch Department of Ministry of Public Security, your blog and its commenters have been deemed to be subversive to the motherland and we advise you to immediately shut down this site, failure to comply will result in sizure of your computer equipments, domain closure and arrest. Thank you for your cooperation.
@fcuk da lu ren
You are pathetic!
In response to the post: This is not a Chinese or American issue, it is a global one. Patriotism is the symbol of a primitive human race. Once we have come to a certain threshold in human evolution without self-extermination, we will realize that were all prisoners of the few rulers that brainwashed us. We are all fools for the made-belief national pride! All shit stink regardless where they come from.
Fauna… 希望你可以有跟多这种从英文翻译到中文的文章。挺有意思看相反的看法。
Firstly, I am happy to see this post since I always look forward to seeing interesting stories from different angles on chinaSMACK.
Secondly, I suggest chinaSMACK translating some positive stuff on Chinese Internet.
Good news doesn’t sell.
cool. And nice pictures.
晕啦!怎么没有我的评论, CHINASMACK伤害了我的感情!
Unless one day the US people can read Chinese, otherwise I will consider them to be brainwashed for everything related to China.
So, when Americans can all read Chinese and they read only Taiwan newspapers or those published by overseas Chinese in foreign countries, you will consider them to not be brainwashed?
@一个中国人
An interesting response that starts off well, but then you also commit the error of taking one person’s actions as respresentative of a nation’s. Just because one Iraqi threw a shoe at Bush doesn’t mean that all Iraqis despise America. By the way, I vehemently oppose the invasion and consider it illegal.
My view of China is this. Some people are happy with the CCP, others are not. Most people carrry nationalist sentiment, some to more extreme degrees than others. I know quite a few Chinese people and their opinions about the CCP, democracy etc all vary. But there is a common theme among all of them. And that is this. We want democracy, but we’re going to do it our way without being told how to do it by others. I know Chinese who’ve lived in the west, who can see the life-enhancing benefits of greater personal freedom, but they are not sure whether it would be right for China right now. It’s hard to tell whether that is the result of state-controlled media propaganda, recent turbulent history, or is merely based on a personal gut insinct. I don’t have the confidence to make a guess. And how can anyone? We’re talking about the opinions of 1.3 billion people. I also know Chinese who have lived in the west and are dying to go back.
But the bottom line for the majority seems to be: Chinese people know their history and they’re not going to be caused to lose face by foreigners again.
As for Tibet, I personally think the Chinese government is unreasonable and dishonest on this issue. Concessions are needed. And surely even Chinese people, who have been so smart to spot the bias in the western media, don’t believe the BS printed in the state media, right?
you should make this feature permanent, and post them at tianya
Great april fools joke
i like it haha
I think it’s time to vote for the “winner” who fell for this joke in the MOST HILARIOUS way.
So, who is he going to be? Let the ballot begin.
A big LOL at the April Fools Day post being the most serious political discussion i have seen on Chinasmack. Well…not the most serious but the most mature i think.
Wow who is the model on the picture? She is gorgeous?