From Sina:
Should Giant Pandas actually be protected?
Giant Pandas have been unlucky this year. First an earthquake destroyed their safest home and now there is a British person who shows up and spills salt on the pandas’ wound. This British person’s name is Chris Packham, a presenter for the BBC. He claims that humans should not spend vast amounts of money to protect Giant Pandas, but rather let it naturally die off.
Packham’s reasoning is: Giant Pandas are not strong enough, unable to independently survive, and using the millions of British pounds used to protect Giant Pandas on other areas might yield better results. Packham is the host for the BBC channel two’s special program “Springwatch”. He believes that the method of first raising in captivity and then releasing into nature is pointless, because nature does not have enough habitat to maintain the Giant Panda’s survival.
He says: “‘Here is a species that, of its own accord, has gone down an evolutionary cul-de-sac. It’s not a strong species. Unfortunately, it’s big and cute and a symbol of the World Wide Fund for Nature and we pour millions of pounds into panda conservation. I reckon we should pull the plug. Let them go, with a degree of dignity.”
Comments from Sina:
俏佳人:
Young giant pandas are really cute.
雨天:
My god~~such a cute little panda~~
Aren’t pandas our national treasure“
Of course we need to carefully protect them~~
双斑莹叶甲:
I dislike giant pandas, both lazy and stupid, and yet there are people who want to make it China’s symbol??? Faint. Look at America’s bald eagle. Swift and violent, strong, vigorously fighting the sky, and then look at our national treasure, extinct without [our] protection. Our China’s symbol will always be the Chinese dragon fighting the sky, commanding wind and rain.
折翼天使:
If humans do not protect other animals, allowing humans to hunt and massacre, I think with the exception of humans, most animals would all become extinct.
小钟:
Giant Pandas should be protected!
It is very difficult to imagine that after so many years of doing a job, someone argues that what you are doing is wrong. What kind of blow is that? Moreover, what some people believe now is not that what is being done is wrong, but only that doing so is meaningless.
However I feel I do not believe the job of protecting Giant Pandas is meaningless. Being able to allow a species to continue on to enjoy the plant together with humans, this is how meaningful of a thing.
Now we can first protect animals and later when we have even more ability, we can also protect the animals habitats, and give them a piece of land where they can live freely.
小枝:
Of course they must be protected, they are our country’s treasure, what they represent is our China.
Disregarding the national treasure title, with regards to such a rare/endangered species, are humans not supposed to protect them?
That cruel British person, no compassion/love.
媛的花园:
Humans should not involve themselves in animals’ lives, they live their own, we live our own, animals and humans only live under the same sky. Perhaps they do not want humans to go disturb their lives, and only want to enjoy nature together with humans.
宇文封殇:
They’re cuter after having grown some fur. That one in the first photo…is that the panda’s tail?
Giant Panda father do not have sex with mothers, without protection, they really will go extinct.
The only people suggesting not to protect pandas is this one and a few others. See if they would protect or not protect if the panda’s habitat were in their country. This is naked envy.
Obviously it was humans who ruins the animals habitat, should [humans] not make some reparations?
办公更轻松:
Pandas should of course be protected, this is our China’s national treasure. Whatever foreigners say, don’t pay them any heed.
小鬼:
Such a cute little guy~~ Last time a friend asked me if I wanted to have a boy or a girl in the future..I blurted out: I want to have a giant panda!
O(∩_∩)O Haha~ I truly really like really like giant pandas!
阮航:
Support! Giant Pandas should’ve been allowed to vanish long ago! Survival of the fittest!
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Save the PANDAS!!!
Nuke the Pandas!
ohhhh. Shafa…. and second…
“OMFG, White people hate China!”
When you pair some completely altered and biased interpretation of a statement with some fucking cuddly baby pandas. You may as well replace the dude’s name with Satan.
I can understand Packham’s argument, cost vs. efficiency. The money spent on panda could help to revive some near destroyed habitat. Entire eco-systems can be preserved, it helps to combat environmental degradation.
You are right. how is destroying pandas with dignity! he is just some stupid british fuck who cares about tea more than a living, breathing mammal. honestly, i think that if you raise them in captivity and release them that any wild animal has the instinct to survive on its own. he is just stupid. he’s british what do you expect. hell, they went to africa demanding them to change over might. they just expect to much and they all need to see what raising a panda is really doing to the enviropnment. the down side is, is that farmers are destrying bamboo. personally, China should make a Giant Panda Reservation place where wild pandas can be free without the disturbance of humans.
The white dude has a point. You can breed as many pandas you want, but with growing human population and taking away their natural habitat, they are doomed to survive. The can be the case with other animals too, not just the pandas.
But they are cute!
I agree. It needs to be a concentrated and combined efforts by working on fronts. In the end we can try to make it a win-win for panda and humans. If we can do that I don’t see why not.
We need to use education to educate people on presevation and environmental protection. Pandas can be used as can excellent tool to win heats & mindz (OMG panda cute! Environment cute!).
Yeah.
Maybe what we need is just use genetic engineering and make panda into house hold pets.
…
Also, to me this is similar the space question. People also will argue and say why spend so much money on this useless thing? Hmm, how about stop spending so much money on killing each other. Thanks.
1. Pandas are *bears*, being cute doesn’t make them less dangerous, they’ll fuck you up if you don’t crawl slowly away from them. Unless your genetic engineering breeds them without claws or teeth, no household pet for you.
2. Killing eachother is fun. Look at the thread on Japanese hiroshima victim photos, all the ‘oooooh that’s satisfying’ shit, apparently a lot more passion about the murder mutilation and death of other humans than some retarded looking worm of a creature as is above.
All animals should be protected. I can understand the increasing numbers to the human population, but just as humans can make space for themselves…we all need to make space for the animals.
packham is an idiot
“I dislike giant pandas, both lazy and stupid, and yet there are people who want to make it China’s symbol???”
I disagree. Po is a legend of legendary Kung Fu master. Forget the secret “Wuxi Finger Hold”?
By the way, what’s “Wuxi”? 无锡? 武士? 武师? 吴氏? Hollywoody Chinglish always confused me.
it is cantonglish
you mean guangdonglish
Korea’s national animal is the tiger, it is just as cute as the panda and powerful enough to fight ten of them at once. As usual Korea proves to be superior.
Btw, do korea have any tigers left?
Japs killed them all but Korean tigers still exist around Vladivostok and they’re going to be reintroduced one day.
So now Koreans are claiming Russian Tigers as their national treasures? what’s next?
its just like where korea is portrayed in axis powers hetalia
they claim everything is theirs. invented everything, even china’s breasts XD..
Russian tigers are no good, they can’t behave and drink vodka all day.
Since it doesn’t actually exist in Korea, shouldn’t it be “once again Korea imagines itself to be superior”?
They do exist in Korea – People’s Democratic Korea, around Baekdu Mountain – but not in the south where all the cock-sucking puppets of the Yankees live.
you mean Changbai Mtn. right? lolzjk
I give on the fact that the tigers are badass as a motherfucker, but aren’t they basically Russia’s now?
Koreans are a bunch of stupid fucks, LOL. The tigers are extinct because the Koreans ate them all. They are doing the same shit with the fishes. They over-fish in their own waters and now, there are no fishes left. So, what do the dumb-fucks do? They sneak into Japanese waters and steal their fishes. Those pussies…oh, I mean pusans don’t know anything about conservation or sustainable growth.
Hell, who are we kidding? Everyone knows we Koreans love dogs!
Cuz of us human, many species close to extinction, now take that into account, as many animals come to extinct, we not gonna eat anymore real meat….
Well, if they’re going to continue this way of protecting the pandas they might aswell breed as many as possible and give them out as pets. At least this way the cost would be shared and everyone could enjoy this soon to chill with a dodo cutie pie..
What…?
If only that Yangtze river dolphin was cuter, it might not have been driven into extinction…
DWR
We are great at destroying and killing off things. It is because of China’s rapid economic expansion, building highways, roads, and other infrastructures that is the cause for the panda’s extinction. Their habitats are in great threat today because of what has become of their habitats. It was a conscientious thing that China began the panda conservation initiative in the 50s to reverse the negative effect of its developement. If we don’t correct our mistakes, if money is all that is in people’s minds, then what is left of the beauty of nature?
Why should anyone even have to ask this questions.
After all.. we are the keepers of this planet!
If only there is a chinese version of glen beck, “white people dont care about panda, they are evil imperialists!”
There already is… his name is Hu Jintao.
I can appreciate where Packham is coming from: to maximize the effect of limited funds, preservation funds should focus on more cost-effective use of their resources.
Packham says:
However I think this is precisely the reason why Pandas ought to be protected. Cuteness should not be underestimated and in the modern times, it may be an important evolutionary trait. Only now the selective pressure isn’t from predators or food scarcity in nature, but the willingness of people to spend money on nature reserves. If one day rats were to become an endangered species, I have a hard time picturing PETA petitioning for its protection.
The Giant Panda, because of its cuddly nature has become an effective symbol for the WWF, helping it raise awareness and funds to preserve itself and more other animals. Moreover, not everything can an effectively evaluated on a cost-benefit basis, especially areas with heavy emphasis on aesthetic appeal. Most people donate to nature funds because they appreciate wild animals and natural beauty. These donors would be less likely part with their money if it was used to protected some fugly looking swamps even if it is much more biologically diverse and/or ecologically important.
I think many translated comments have already highlighted the cultural significance of Pandas to China so I won’t go into it.
Still, I’m not certain Packham really meant for he said. I think in these tough economic times, donation dependent NGOs are having a hard time attracting funds, and with so many voices shouting for attention the only way anyone can get some decent media exposure is to say something outrageous.
Finally:
This is just stupid.
In my opinion. It’s starting to seem a little bit wasteful to keep them protected in their natural habitat.
But! People love to see panda’s. And I believe keeping them safe in captivity (as long as they are well cared for) is the best idea for everyone.
Zoos make a lot of revenue and protect a lot of animals. Sure some zoos are crap and really need to be inspected and shut down. But, I still believe it is possible to maintain a safe and healthy environment for pandas in zoos.
Protect the pandas. Yes.
But why not make money doing it.
And if you don’t care about the money, at least try to break even.
they’re a national treasure. now quick, whore them out for 10 million to any country willing to pay. we have audis to buy after all.
Those Chinese posters saying that British guy is cruel, should first examine the common argument used by Chinese to justify the ridiculous income gap (amongst other things) in the PRC: “They didn’t study enough, that’s why they’re poor and suffering, why should we help them or pity them?” vs. “They haven’t evolved into a strong species, that’s why they’re dying off, why should we help them or pity them?” Sounds to me like this kind of logic should be par for the course. I’m surprised a BRITISH person has to make this obvious statement.
People preaching of the “cultural significance to China” need to take their blindfolds off. Beyond the tourist pictures and the occasional “AWWWWW HOW CUTE”, the Chinese don’t give a shit about pandas. I think they should still be protected for different reasons, but the Giant Panda is protected by China because they whore it out with photos and various kinds of merchandise. There’s no good will here.
I thought Packham’s point was that Pandas will never be able to make it on their own. We’re pumping money into a Panda life support machine with no hope of ever being able to switch it off.
A species that has forgotten how to bone is one that’s doomed to fail.
Packham’s logic is as sound as nature lover saying I love animals but fuck the pandas and all things that are pussies.
“The only people suggesting not to protect pandas is this one and a few others. See if they would protect or not protect if the panda’s habitat were in their country. This is naked envy.”
Also this, whose development does this guy think is destroying the panda’s habitat? A majority of the funding for the protection of pandas is still coming from abroad. I wish I could say “Maybe its time for China to clean up its own mess instead of bitching for once.”, but the problem here is that the panda will have to suffer if we let China bungle it up.
So let me get this straight: the original Sina post was a translation of that evil British wanker’s argument to not support giantus panda conservation, and a bunch of photos of cute baby pandas? I take it this presents a point/counterpoint argument?
I detest blogs and forum posts that consist entirely of pictures. This happens all the time on China internet, and it displays people’s lack of ability to make arguments, understand them and formulate further arguments. Arrgh. That means in the last heated Chinasmack article about victims of the nuclear attack, you could win a “internet knife fight” by posting pictures of cute Chinese babies. Or, evil Japanese babies.
Evil British bloke wins by default, as not many has countered his unpopular argument well. First, and let’s face it, the Chinese environment is not getting any better. Pretty soon pandas will only live in zoos, but that is quite suitable for its tool to live as a cute mascot for conservation/China/living teddy bears.
I wouldn’t hesitantly agree to this argument if not for the way Chinese treat the environment, which is to exploit the land and animals for human usage. It’s a huge contradiction, all the money spent polluting versus all the money spent conserving the environment. Hey man, do one or the other, you can’t win a money war on two sides.
Giant pandas receive better treatment than alot of people in China, just as luxury cars or dogs. Let’s face it, it’s all about face (well, it’s always about face); if China were to lose the pandas it would be a national disgrace. Meanwhile, the poverty gap increases and untold millions live marginalized lives.
Think of all the millions spent in this lost cause versus the millions that could be spent building schools, hospitals, and building an infrastructure for society – a good one, one where people will learn and people will be healed. To me that’s more important than an animal who doesn’t even know how to procreate to save its own life.
I met an American women a couple years who was working at the Panda reserve in Chengdu. She loved her job, but hated the politics of it. She said that lots of pressure was put on the institute by the government to breed as many pandas as possible, which according to her, harmed future generations because more time should have been spent breeding the best combination of genetically diverse pandas (I don’t know the logic of it, but it was something like that).
No way would she agree with letting the pandas go extinct, but it’s an interesting story about government and politics having such a strong voice in something that should be left up to scientists.
By breeding the most genetically different pandas, you can ensure the longativity of their species… otherwise if you just make them all baby making machines, all of the pandas will be related, and they end up fucking each other = retarded pandas…. and a lot of them.
Inbreeding is bad. Look up “incest”.
Allow ‘the Chinese’ to die off. I’m sure thats what Packham meant.
Make that area of land between Mount Everest and Chengdu a giant Tibetan reserve… you know.. to breed pure Tibetans and allow them to live in their natural habitat.
But the Chinese care not of such pointless things.
THE F*****g PANDA is far higher up the agenda.
What’s next? Not sending funds to hunger striven areas? Westerns has been hunting Giant Panda’s for years during colonial period. It is act selfishness by journalist. UK will put billions of pounds for new nuclear submarines, but few millions for correcting error of humankind is “too much”? Maybe current preservation policies are not good, but that isn’t reason to stop with preservation effort.
Here we go again…. westerners hunting giant pandas, everything is the west’s fault. If you do research you will find that Chinese themselves have hunted panda’s far more than anyone outside China. Most likely for furs and absolutely worthless Chinese medicine
I’m westerner, too. What I hate is people being ignorant. I didn’t said that ONLY westerners hunted panda. I said they hunted, so they bear responsibilities.
It is same as pollution. Developed countries polluted for planet for years, and now it is developing country responsibility? Yeah, what the hack. Why would we care some kids in Africa dies, or some tornado clears Cuba and part of Florida (Latinos lives there anyway)?. Let’s just be ignorant fools.
are you sure your a westerner? because your post reads like chinglish? I have a good eye due to my experience teaching ESL in shanghai. :) plus your post reeks of china pride. I can’t imagine anyone but a brainwashed citizen of the PRC to expect the dirty dirty laowai to not only foot the bill for conservation within China, but take responsibility as well. It must be exhausting trying to save face all the time.
Did it ever occur to you that constant finger pointing could cause others to lower their opinion of you?
I think it sucks that we as a species are so destructive to nature. I love nature. However, giant pandas seem like an awful waist of finite resources. They lost the will to mate!! Let’s save animals that stand a chance at survival in the wild. Unless of course someone can give me an ecological reason why losing the pandas would be bad? seems to me such a small population, spread over the vast habitat they each require, would have little to no effect on the current ecosystem. I mean really? millions and millions. year after year. So I can go to the zoo and take a picture?
as to the whole mascot thing…couldn’t they remain a symbol of, and fund raising tool for, conservation in some kind of memorial roll? just a thought. plus isn’t there a sense of urgency created by staring into the eyes of the photo of the cute little extinct panda? It gives us a tragic lose to point at.
Oh the irony!
westerners have been hunting Pandas? Yeh… the Chinese are utterly blameless.
Fucking slant.
They are cute, a tourist magnet and enhances China’s softpower (somewhat); thus they have an economic utility.
So Packham is wrong, benefits do match the cost.
It’s not just baby pandas that are cute, the grown up ones are hilarious too. They can’t stop rolling around in this video and there are more of baby pandas: http://www.newsy.com/videos/adapt_or_die
Why has a Tibetan animal, the panda, been deemed to represent the whole of China? Odd. Maybe they’ll replace the Tiananmen Gate with the Potala Palace as the symbol o the nation on all the coins.
I hope you know Pandas have alot historical connections to the Chinese then the Tibetans. And as much as i pity the situation of the Tibetans, there r parts that never belong to Tibet in the first place that the Tibetan gov-in-exile is laying claim on.
Even back in the Han Dynasty, giving pet Pandas away is seen as a token of good will in Chinese culture.
The panda: nature’s loser.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16054_p2.html
i agree with the brit.
let china pay for all of it and then
if they feel like someone isnt helping them about it
just dont let us see them and take pictures of’em!
i am damn sure
EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS WORLD
could live a full life without ever seeing a panda.
all those nonsense chinese comments…blah, blah, blah…
if anything,
a lazy, fat being that doesn’t know how to fuck EXACTLY resembles chinese and
should be their symbol…
as for it being a treasure…puhlease…nobody goes to china to see the pandas. people just stop by along the way…if they have enough time…
nah, fuck’em, cute or not.
crisis and everything.
just make sure more people live a life at the 21st century standard,
then start spending millions on shit like this again.
I’m quite sure lads in London’s pubs can drink their beer without seeing anybody but their neighbors.
UK has long history of not letting people to live by any standard.
Well you got a bit of the english lingo in there krdr, managed to avoid making any point whatsoever though.
Yeah, I’m master in it.
Does the Yangtze river crocodile, Dolphin or soft-shelled fresh-water turtle get this much attention?
Pandas are cute, but if they can’t fuck to save their own life, that makes them the EMO kids of the natural world. The world is so black and white! Remember 滚滚， it’s down the road not across the street!
Not only do they not want to make babies, but they eat their babies when they actually have them. Evolutionarily defunct, my friends…
To paraphrase Nelson Muntz: nuke the pandas.
Pandas are cute, but honestly they are probably doomed eventually. China would indeed be using its conservation money better by trying to preserve quantity rather than quality(by quality I am referring to the popularity of said animal).
In the USA, there are often 2 animals that come to people’s minds when discussing China. One is the giant panda: huggable, lovable, and generally not a threat to anyone. The other is the dragon, which has a very different reputation in Western vs Eastern culture. In Eastern cultures, the dragon is a wise creature that can shapechange and is generally helpful humans. In Western culture, the dragon is an evil creature that kidnaps princesses and hordes great wealth in its nest. These two animals represent a fairly insightful view into the conflicting opinions felt towards China by many in the USA(and I would guess other Western nations too).
In the Pentagon, those who advocate closer ties to China are called “panda-huggers” while those who advocate a more aggressive tone are called “dragon-slayers”. fwiw
I meant to say “helpful to humans”* not “helpful humans” -_-
Protect the national animal and eat everything else.
If this was applicable on humans the black race along with aborigines etc. would be extinct. Maybe even the yellow race would be gone and only the white race left. The fragile Jews would be a thing of the past for sure. I think the japs would be around since they are the masters of the yellow race. Even black people are cute when they are born. Many of them become rapists and thief’s when they get older. I am stunned that a poor country like China can afford to host them in Guangzhou. White people generate welth to China, the white people behave better then the chinese so i think we should be allowed to stay. We can teach you some manors. White people wait till people leave the elevator or subway before entering it. Make sence right?
White people does not litter, make sence also. White people does not rape your girls, does not steal in your shops etc. etc.
I know most Chinese know this so we get treated well, however some chinese think with the butt and do not realize why china is getting richer. China would still be very poor if the white people did not enter China. We teach and buy.
My take is that we must protect an endangered species
THEY ARE TOO CUTE NOT TO BE PROTECTED!
Plus, we should be trying to keep animals that aren’t harming us from extinction!
I love pandas, but I understand the guy’s concern. Pandas isnt realli a ecologically competitive specie and the Chinese isnt a ecologically friendly ppl either. So in the short future, panda conservation effort is really a losing cause if you want to sent them back to wild.
=] but again, the chinese gov is using pandas as like diplomacy presents anyways…so i guess in some way, conservating pandas is actually helping them diplomatically.
fuck the white dude.
GIANT PANDAS SHOULD BE PROTECTED