This is an update to our earlier post: Hubei University Students Drown While Saving Children
Last week, three university students in Hubei, China drowned while rescuing two little boys trapped in the Changjiang (Yangtze) River. News of their heroic actions and sacrifice has moved many of the local students and residents, as well as many Chinese netizens. Unfortunately, there is also some controversial news about this incident…
From Tianya: (uncertain where the original post is)
From Xiaonei [aka RenRenWang], the following are all from the people who were there, but unfortunately has been heartlessly avoided by the media!!
Originally, no one had to die. At the time, right beside them was a fishing boat. Those students cried and knelt down on their knees begging the fishermen to go down and rescue, but the fishermen were indifferent, allegedly saying there are often people who drown there and there is a local salvage/recovery team, recovering one body is 12,000, and normally do not rescue people even if they are drowning! That is the road to riches [That is the big story to report!] Why not report that in the end, several university students were left in the river, that the firefighters refused to recover them, saying 10,000 kuai per body…forcing the teachers to fall to their knees.
Being in Jingzhou, I am fortunate to know a bit of this. Below is what a person who was present at the scene said:
It was afternoon, after 2:00, in Jingzhou City Shashi District beside the Changjiang [Yangtze] River, two 12-13 year old boys were drowning. At the time, over ten freshmen university students saw and joined together to create a human chain/ladder entering the water to save them. Amongst them were even those who did not know how to swim and female students. When the second child was almost pulled ashore, due to undercurrents and waning strength, the human chain broke, and nine university students fell into the water, immediately all screaming for help.
Luckily came the winter swimming team and several 60+ year old elderly who helped rescue six of the university students. The remaining three university students drowned. Near where they drowned were two fishing boats, with people on them, but not a single person went to rescue. The firefighters were the first to arrive at the scene, but said they did not have any diving and rescue gear and only tried fishing out/recovering for a while from the riverside. When they returned ashore to go back, they were stopped by several crying university students nearby, so they again returned to the riverside to look around without intention to go into the water, and the Marine Department’s boat only came to look for a while before leaving.
The school’s leaders [officials] only arrived at the scene two hours later, and discussed the 12,000 per body recovery fee with the aforementioned fishing boat bosses. Only then did the fishing boat bosses oblige in going into the water to fish out the bodies.
When they fished out the first body, the observers all cried out, the location of the body recovered not being more than three meters from the fishing boat. At the time, had the people on the fishing boat only threw an oar/stick over, he would have been saved. Standing on the side watching, my heart was very uncomfortable, and when the body came up, the doctor even took the oxygen over pretending to try saving him.
At this time, it had already been over three hours since it began. When the second university student’s body was fished out, the fishing boat boss stopped the operation and said without the 24,000 money, they refuse to recover the last body. Those around raised their voices in anger [blaming them]. Only when the teachers knelt down on their knees in the end did they agree to 11,000 per body. It was after 6pm when the third body was recovered. Up to this point, the two children who were rescued had gone missing and could not be found, and what more, these news say it was the firefighters and Marine Department that fished up the bodies. When you see all of this, you may not be very believing, but carefully watch the news footage/images and you can see the 5-6 firefighters walking in the shallow waters, and not a sign of the Marine Department, so what is the country paying them for? Recovering bodies is supposed to be their responsibility, yet no one from the government came to do it, too disappointing! I simply feel we need to understand more of the incident’s truth. We have a responsibility to let the people all know what the origins of the so-called “heroes” are! The rest I leave to the world to discuss! The above comes from Xiaonei. [...]
From NetEase:
Hubei university students drown rescuing people, nearby fishing boat refused to help rescue
Key points: On the day the Hubei university students saved the children in the water, there was a fishing boat stopped no more than 5 meters away from the children. The students involved in the rescue begged on their knees for their help, but the fishing boat boss said “living people we will not save, [only] fish up bodies, 12,000 per body in the day, 18,000 per body at night”, and would not even give their life preserver/buoy. The investigating reporter discovered that there is a local “folk” profiteering salvage/recovery team [organized by the ordinary area residents, not government] that specifically depends on fishing bodies to earn money.
Before the incident, Changjiang Pagoda River riverbank.
University students link arms to create a "human chain/ladder" to help rescue. A ship parked nearby, but was unable to stop tragedy from happening.
A sudden danger.
Xinhuanet, October 30 report. Yesterday, Changjiang [Yangtze] University decided, with regards to Chen Jishi, Fang Zhao, He Dongxu, to give the families of the three university students who sacrificed their lives to save others a reward of 500,000 yuan per family.
…
The community donated over 1,190,000 to the university student rescuers
The heroic deeds of the Changjiang [Yangzte] University students who sacrificed themselves to save others has received attention from people from all walks of life. Many companies and individuals have one after another donated. Yesterday, Changjiang [Yangzte] University made a public notice on their official website: According to an incomplete count, up to 5pm October 29, the total donations have reached 1,191,000 yuan renminbi.
For the last few days, society and media one after another praised the university student rescuers’ heroic deeds. But according to the university students who participated in the rescue, there were a hundred bystanders by the lake where the youngsters were drowning, and when the university students begged the fishing boat boss to help rescue, the boss shockingly explained that they will not rescue living people and will only fish out/recover bodies and thus refused to rescue!
Fishing boat boss, only fish up bodies after receiving money
October 24, 2:10, suddenly someone yelled, “someone is drowning”.
Soon after came cries for help. Within 100 meters of Jiang Menglin (a university student participating in the rescue) at the riverside, two youngsters were in the middle of the water at the riverside struggling to survive. Because it was the weekend, there were many sightseeing tourists at the Pagoda Bay riverside, and over 100 people quickly crowded around but no one went into the water to offer assistance.
Yet parked no more than 5 meters away from the drowning youngsters was a mechanical fishing boat, and 20 meters away was a fishing boat converted into a floating restaurant called “Lan Se Jia Yuan [Blue Home?]“
“Us schoolmates all got on our knees for the fishing boat boss, begging them to see if they could help rescue Fang Zhao and the three people [the three university student who were lost], and the boss said, “When isn’t there someone dying on the Changjiang [Yangzte River]? If a few people don’t die, what do we depend on to earn money, hm?” One of the students that was part of the human rescue chain that day said, “The boss said at the time, [that they] will not rescue living people, [only] fish out/recover bodies, 12,000 yuan per person during the day, 18,000 yuan per person during the night. Give money first, then we’ll fish up the people.”
“After our schoolmates encountered misfortune in the water, had someone thrown us a few life preservers/buoys, then no one would have been sacrificed.” Jiang Menglin said.
“At first, we called the police, 110, 119, and 120 all called.” Jiang Menglin said, and after the firefighter arrived, they said they too are not a specialized search and rescue team, [so] they couldn’t rescue.
Jingzhou City winter swimming team’s captain Wang Jue confirmed to journalists the incident of the university students begging on their knees being met with refusal by the fishing boat boss that day. Han Deyuan, a participant of the rescue, said, “If that fishing boat had helped rescue, then no one would have died.”
“There are a lot of drowning victims around the Pagoda Bay area, and as a result there are often fishing boats parked nearby, ” Han Deyuan said, “The price [for fishing out bodies] is very high, so normally the fishing boats do not rescue people who are still alive, and only fish out/recover the dead bodies, [because] the price is over 10,000, and even higher at night” “Nowadays, just getting a word of thanks is already pretty good after rescuing them, and most of those in trouble in the water are youngsters, all of whom do not dare tell their parents after they are rescued, so who dares to ask the family for money. Now there is already a “folk” profiteering salvage/recovery team that has formed, specifically depending on this [fishing out people] to make money.” Han Deyuan explained.
…
Relevant departments are currently investigating the “Fisherman Incident”
Regarding the “Fisherman Incident” that has been spreading on the internet, the day before yesterday, Jingzhou propaganda office director Xiong also gave a reply. Director Xiong said, relevant departments are already investigating. However, with regards to whether there will be punishment after the investigation, Director Xiong expressed that since there are currently no laws or relevant regulations that say receiving money for fishing out bodies is illegal, even after the results of the investigation, punishment is not realistic.
Although this news has outraged many, there are also many reports and images of the people who have been touched and inspired by the unfortunate loss of these brave university students…
From Tianya:
Tens of thousands of people send off the courageous university students
Over 50,000 people attended the memorial.
Seeing this I cried, they were so admirable.
Recovery scene at Jingzhou City Changjiang (Yangtze) River section Pagoda River bend.
Those who came to the memorial were full of tears.
At this moment, any words would seem tiny. I truly do not what to say.
This morning (28th) 10am, the second funeral home of Jingzhou City was packed with people. The memorial for the rescuers Chen Jishi, He Dongxu, and Fang Zhao was solemnly held here. Tens of thousands of city residents bid farewell to the three courageous university students.
Genuine heroes.
Morning of the 28th, students from various schools attend the memorial to send off the courageous university students.
Foreign teachers came to the funeral home to present flowers.
Sending off the heroes on a long street. Bow...
The rescued boy kneels before the university heroes' family members.
Family members of the victims stricken with grief.
A pair of shoes and unfinished incense sticks left by the riverside.
The (rescued) child visits the victims' family members.
Many people came to to honor the departed heroes.
"Post-90s generation" heroes move the nation. Post-90s are not a broken generation after all. Fresh flowers placed by the riverside in memory of the young heroes.
2009 November 1 UPDATE:
A new post on Tianya includes some candid photos of the fishing boat boss and suspicions that the fishing boats have some connection to black society or organized crime.
Also in this post are five public demands by the families of the three university students who drowned to the government:
The victims’ families’ five requests/demands:
- The government organize an official investigation team to investigate the true circumstances surrounding the three university students’ going into the water to save people and meeting misfortune.
- Investigate why the nearby fishing boat refused to help, the fishing boat owner using the opportunity of rescue to demand high fees from the teachers and students, whether delay of rescue is against the law, and are they are responsible/liable?
- Local people claim that the fishing boat from the day of the Pagoda Bay incident has black society [organized crime] background/connections, that they monopolize the recovery of bodies [from the river] seeking high profits, and not only do not rescue people themselves but also forbid others to rescue, and refuse to rescue even when they see people in danger, may the government investigate.
- Request investigation of whether the public security, marine department, and other departments attempted rescue in a timely fashion, and whether or not there was any situation of inaction or slow action.
- Application for the government to publicly release the progress of the investigations and the results of any actions taken to the families and society.
2009 November 3 UPDATE:
This picture is spreading on the internet today. It shows the fishermen after they have fished up a drowned student’s body and refusing to hand the body over until he is paid. I saw a girl reading this news and looking at this photo on the metro today too.
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Chongqing Medical Students Disrespect Human Remains 
Hubei University Students Drown While Saving Children 
1,300 Graduate Students Compete to Sell Pork 
Fudan Students Run Naked To Celebrate Graduation 
Nanjing Students Line Up In Winter To Study In Library 
I cannot believe anyone can be so callous! In the third picture there can clearly be seen a life ring on the right. Where did this come from? there was no mention of it in the description.
Godless heathens.
Those bastards.
money is god of chinese ppl , prefer money than human life , all to blame japanese and hate other race is what they can do better , no love between themsleves only self centered ppl in china
Money is also the god of the CHINESE students that sacrificed their lives in an attempt to save others?
This is a rhetorical question, just in case you don’t understand.
Where do the Japanese even play into this at all?
Oh right, they don’t.
well atleast they where student who don’t earn yet but what about those greedy elders who left their own children, tommorows nation die over money. yeah you hate them japanese yet yourself are not clean atleast you don give a shit about your own neigbor your next personal, you guys are good in force pretending all those kind of things, but inside your heart full of hatrete to all type people in the world , learn to live enjoy life love your neighbor your countrymen then you will be loved
hmm that wasn’t a stupid racist and irrelevant comment
lmfao MM what nationality are you and where do you live? Don’t just drop a random comment bagging out the Chinese. I’m pretty sure western bitches are far more selfish and if there’s any problem with the neighbors either call the police or take it to court…. very intolerant to minor things in life compared to most of the Chinese people I know.
you disgusting shit!!how much do you know china?
I want to apologize for my language. I did not mean to say bad things about MM, but this person is really irritating!
Actually in American there are laws that are called “Good Samaritan”. If you stand by and do nothing in America when you could of helped, you will go to jail. These fishing boat people are sickest people in the world. Why wouldn’t the chinese mob beat them when they come to land?
Both the hero and the villains of this story are Chinese, one did the morally righteous thing the other did not. So why the hell are you generalizing misdeed of few to the entire Chinese populace, while the good guys are also Chinese.
You’re damn right mm but I tell you truly,these mutha fuckers who know nothing but to hate other race making themselves extreme racists who suddenly become jealous and talk big fat shit when they see their bitches hanging out with foreigners will exterminate themselves off the face of the earth shortly.
This is bullshit!!!They watch their breed drowning and now they’re mourning?Fuck you all.Fucking murderers.Fucking chinese with a long history of hate on Japanese for raping their women but here they are raping their own women,robbing each other,killing each other and chewing out each other like carnivorous animals.
Fake ass people!!!
[comment hidden for too many negative votes -- click to view]
“Fucking greedy chinese fucks I’ll fucking kill them.”
Perhaps this statement isn’t intentionally misleading but it is. You are encompassing all Chinese people when you say “greedy Chinese fucks.”
Don’t the courageous students deserve some goddamn respect? Especially the ones who died in the process? This shit is insulting to them.
right on, man
a lot of the users here seem to just want to post racist comments about chinese pretending that they actually care about people
I totally agree with JustineC. there are issues in China, and so other countries.
I swear if it was someone I loved I would kill the bosses. Tie them to concrete and drown them. Fuckers
If there’s any justice left within China, those fishermen would at the very least go to jail if not worse.
Wonder if there is anything for refusing to aid and assist, technically, couldn’t the fishermens actions be considered Manslaughter, at least, under a western legal system?
“at least, under a western legal system”
China’s “legal system” is just another instrument of control, if it serves the party’s interests to prosecute and convict the fisherman, it will happen. When Korean companies in China get into legal trouble, they don’t spend their money on a lawyer, they spend their money on a consultant who knows just which party officials need to be bribed. These fishermen don’t have much money so if there’s public outrage, they’re fucked and there’s nothing they can do about it, whether they’re guilty or not.
Yes, because you’re the expert regarding the legal system in China. Give me one statute justifying your statement.
Statutes make no difference here… the theory of the legal system is irrelevant, the practice of the legal system is the real issue.
And I found all this out THE HARD WAY.
actually, thats pretty true.
I’m interning in an U.S.- China trading consortium NGO, all the development directors say the same thing. What is funnier is that when Chinese big shot investors come to the US, the first thing they’ll want to do is to meet your mayor or governor. We didn’t really understand why initially, but we arranged the meeting as requested.
Then two days later the IRS would be sending them fines and warnings about some paperwork or regulation, they’ll respond:” I met your mayor/governor!”
Yeah, because all big shot investors are actually uneducated, and legally uninformed morons who cant realise cultural differences between countries and act impulsively without any knoweldge of the context in which they are doing business.
I guess all their financial assets must have been from windfall gains to which they did not have to exercise any collective judgment as to the adequcy of their deciions. Nice point smart guy, you don’t get rich by being stupid.
Why are disputing an observation?
It seems Charlie boy will automatically defend any thing negative that’s affiliated with China, whether its defensible or not.
I did not give an opinion, I witnessed an series of events and I reported it here. I do not why you are challenging it.
why are you disputing*
Please excuse my writing, I just got up from a night of Halloween festivity.
I meant to say:
“why are you disputing disputing an observation?
It seems Charlie boy will automatically defend any thing negative that’s affiliated with China, whether its defensible or not.
I did not give an opinion, or offer any thing speculative. I witnessed an series of events and I reported it here. I do not know why you are challenging it. “
Doubt it. The Good Samaritan Law doesn’t really exist in China. Nor does it exist in most western countries/states.
I hope the whole community out there ostracizes those fags.
They should name and shame. Post their pictures up along with names and descriptions across the city.
Actually, Criminal negligence is still a felony if it results in manslaughter in the States.
R v Bateman (1925) 28 Cox’s Crim Cas 33:
“In explaining to juries the test which they should apply to determine whether the negligence, in the particular case, amounted or did not amount to a crime, judges have used many epithets, such as ‘culpable’, ‘criminal’, ‘gross’, ‘wicked’, ‘clear’, ‘complete’. But, whatever epithet be used and whether an epithet be used or not, in order to establish criminal liability the facts must be such that, in the opinion of the jury, the negligence of the accused went beyond a mere matter of compensation between subjects and showed such disregard for the life and safety of others as to amount to a crime against the State and conduct deserving punishment.”
Actually you’d need to establish whether there was a duty of care to begin with and then factual or legal causation.
This most likely wouldn’t be a case of criminal negligence at all since there is clearly no duty of care.
However if it was classified as a homicide, the law generally recognises that omissions to act are generally not legally recognised unless a person has a duty recognised under the criminal code.
A duty to act refers broadly to things such as the duty for lifeguards to save, or the duty as the head of family, duty of persons doing dangerous acts and the duty to provide necessaries. I doubt that the Fisherman were under any duty to act in this circumstance.
Of course, provided that you can establish that there was a duty of care and causation, then you might have a case. I actually remember that quote from 19 Cr App R 8, 13. You could have also cited R v Doherty (1887), Callaghan (1952) 87 CLR 115 (Colvin 88) or Andrews v DPP (1937). Nice try though! :)
That’s a citation from a U.S. state court ???
I had no idea that all 50 states had a uniform criminal code.
They were intending on capitalizing on the easily preventable deaths of the victims, that will place their positions into that of interested party, not indifferent bystanders.
go to jail for misfeasance?
you don’t say…
Ah! This story shows the real character of China’s “harmonious society.”
It will be many, many generations before China becomes a civilized society.
not longer than the generation of these heroic students takes charge of this country
Way to sidestep the issue, I guess it’s even more unrealistic to expect any laws that requires duties to rescue or against profiteering to ever pass. I doubt anything would come out of the investigation. Any such efforts would probably raise questions on why the authorities failed so miserably (came and left?!) and reveal some unpleasant truths. After all, why rock the boat.
It sounds like the ‘relevant departments’ need to do something to encourage the masses to firmly uphold a bit more socialist spirit in unswervingly aiding Chinese compatriots.
I’m not even surprised.
Human nature isn’t pretty, so Chinese nature can be very ugly sometimes…
typical china, a lotta shit aint right out here.
damn the CCP for making chinese people not able to breathe underwater!!1
I was going to say…. stop the presses, but this is just too fucked up.
Fuck everything, after 8 years I’m finally leaving this God forsaken place.
If the Chinese people are as righteous as the students, they will human flesh out the fishing bosses and bring justice to the memory of the lost students.
Those fishermen should be drowned. I have never heard anything so ridiculous. They are not human but worse than rats and cockroaches. Had it been a child of mine who drowned I would walk down to their boat and chop their heads off (possibly after some gruesome mutilations). I hope someone will go and “explain” them their mistakes. At the very least with so many witnesses they should be sent to jail for refusing to help as it is clearly visible from the pictures that if you were on a boat there would be no risk to your own health while aiding. Fxcking greedy murderous Shabis.
If ever there is a reason for mob justice…
hmm, to me it seems there might be more to this story , are you sure the fishermen even had the possibility to save anybody withouth putting themselves in harms way ? if so then there should be outrage ..
but , the students that made the rescue effort drowned themselves, thus maybe that explains why the fishermen were so reluctant ?
This is a story of two Chinas.
The fishermen show a side of “Old China,” the feudal, brutal, dog-eat-dog society immortalized in the diaries of Western travelers, who observed the corruption and apathy of a country where, in the midst of a famine, the rich feasted on pork while the poor starved to death on the streets. Meanwhile, the students represent the “New China,” a nation built upon ideals of social harmony, community spirit, and patriotism.
Is China becoming more like “Old China” or “New China?”
in a world of over 6 billion people, you’re bound to find people anywhere with appallingly little enthusiasm or compassion.
To be honest take look at picture first. Does that thing even look like a boat?
Does it have a bow? No, there is nothing to stop wakes from washing overboard.
Since it stopped near land, where is the moor line? no where to be found. Where is the anchor? no where to be found.
What is it then? Do you see the pier that’s extending from it to the land. Yeah, it F***ing dock house, with no power plant is simple there so that ship don’t have to run aground. Here is a example of a Chinese Dock house with a ship docked to it.
http://hiphotos.baidu.com/%C2%F3%C3%E7maimiao/pic/item/1269a1eeabfe421727979173.jpg
And for us foreign devils on board, here is another one in the Bahamas
http://4thdynasty.com/cms1/data/upimages/photography10.jpg
Now, the Chinese poster can be forgiven since either they honestly believe a Dock move about magically in the river, just believe that thing is actually Seaworthy. But come on, we know better than that….
As a point of reference this is what fishing boats looks like. compare it with pictures above, note how it has a bow and draft line.
http://attach2.92wy.com/attachment/2008/03/25/921490_200803250930582Cr5q.jpg
http://www.sinzer.com/bbs/attachments/20070527_ab496fbd9e6b8a0cd5dfmMcy6DwmDiV4.jpg
Granted there is a boat in the distance in the third picture. But it could be any where from half a mile to 3 miles away depend on how big the boat is. Where is too far way to be of any help.
I think the thing you’re referring to is what they called in the article a “fishing boat converted into a floating restaurant called “Lan Se Jia Yuan [Blue Home?]”
I agree that it doesn’t seem so mobile, yet the writer seemed to think it was. Difficult to say who is right.
I also didn’t see the boat in the picture, but maybe the boat is just out of frame, like off to the left of the sand dune.
I was gonna say just the same thing. I was in Chongqing the other day and the boat in the pictures is similar to the ones I saw. Essentially they’re marooned on shore and serve as a sorta unofficial dock, meaning when a real ship comes it docks with the marooned ship and people go from the shore to the marooned ship and transfer to the actual ship. Typically these ships wouldn’t be able to move.
yes, these types of docks are very common on Chinese river due in part because of shore line changed dramatically during wet and dry seasons making fixed docks impractical (especially in Chongqing area where operations of the dam will also effect where the shoreline is).
However, far more damning photographs coming out now such as this one proving the existence of “corpse getting service”:
http://www.dffy.com/fayanguancha/rd/200911/20091108191811.htm
(note the arms tied by side of the boat in the bottom picture)
However, where or not these “fishermen” are involved in this particular case is still questioned.
http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2009-11-07/174618997838.shtml (in Chinese, no pictures)
What would Swift suggest….
eat the indifferent fishermen?
Hurting the fishing boat boss wouldn’t be good enough. You would have to tie him to a chair, throw a loved one into the ocean, and then tell him that you can save the loved one if you wanted to, but because you would get paid $10K Yuan for fishing out the dead body, you’ll wait till the loved one dies before fishing the body out.
Great. Just fucking great. Goddamnit I’m getting enraged by these fisherman bastards. Commence Operation “Fisherman Flaying.”
Just another China story, a story every day all over there and here. What’s is sad is that the students cannot swim, why we dont’ all learn this neccessary skill in the school
those students who save the childrens cannot swim right? hmm why would they save someone if they, themselves don’t know how to swim..?
Expose those who stand by and did nothing to help. Bring them to face criminal charges and let the rest of China understand the basic duty of a citizen. There is just too many of such similiar cases happening around china everyday. This will be a good educational case for all of us, though unfortunately at the cost of 3 lifes.
If the news media is not willing to do that, netizens should take the lead to expose them openly.
To the heroes and families, you will be remembered always by all and especially by those you have sacrifice your life.
One of the rules of saving people in the water. If you have not received training on it, don’t rescue anybody, otherwise there will be in the end more people to rescue, therefore putting on danger the rescuers once they come.
Now, common sense rule…if you cannot swim don’t get in the water!!!!
A lot of people, in this thread and the previous post, have said that people who cannot swim shouldn’t try to save those who are drowning in the water. I generally agree with the reasonableness of this admonishment.
That said, I’m a little confused with the story. Did…
A) the students beg the fishermen to save the kids first, but when the fishermen refused, THEN formed the human chain to go in?
B) the students FIRST formed the human chain, it broke, and THEN beg the fishemen to help save the 3 students that fell in and eventually drowned?
C) the students BOTH first begged, was refused, then chained up, broke, 3 fell in, and begged AGAIN for the fishermen to help?
I’m leaning towards C but I’m not certain. Anyone do a careful reading and tell me what they think?
Either way, what I want to say is that the kids didn’t just throw themselves in, but were quite aware of their inability to swim and simply tried to wade in in a chain to reach the kids. The misfortune (besides the fishermen being asses) is that their chain broke after pulling in the two kids, thus resulting in three of the students who couldn’t swim drowning.
It seemed like a calculated effort in an emergency. They had someone to anchor them on the land and absent any ropes or other tools, they held hands and made themselves into a tool to get to the kids. I’d say they were unlucky more than plain stupid. I think they tried to do the right thing in a thoughtful manner but it just wasn’t enough. Shit happens. They’re still good kids in my book.
I think the all critics of the students are too preoccupied with the physical merits of the act rather than the spiritual significance. These student stands as a testament against the so called “silent China” – all the apathetic masses who stand idle by in the face of injustice and helplessness. It’s a shames these critics are the same people who blame others for failing to stop injustice and exploitation in many of the other posts on the site.
After reading your comment I did a quick search on Baidu, and the facts are surprisingly convoluted, most of the articles mention at 2:10 pm people on the shore notices the two drowning children, and very next detail is university students begging nearby fishermen to save the three students.
Then I realized even the two stories on this site do not agree with each other. According to the previous one by Joe, of the three students who drowned, two jumped in after hearing cries for help and the third one lost his footing as part of the human chain. In this post by translated by Fauna all three were part of the chain.
According to here Chen Jishi drowned after jumping in, Fang Zhao and He Dongxu are part of the human chain, eight of whom (not nine) students lost their footing.
Not confusing enough? This article quotes one of the swim team member who rescued several students complaining about the fishermen who did nothing to help, the same person is quoted in another article as saying the fishermen did help, and left after most of the students were rescued, later, several other recovery ships came and haggled over prices.
No wonder there is going to be an investigation!
Anyways in answer to your post, I think most likely is B). Also it’s clear that the students DID know how to swim, just not well enough to rescue the children plus they didn’t know about the treacherous undercurrents.
Cheers, whichone, I’m glad you noticed some of the same confusing elements as I did in reading the reports.
I’m confused too, as the picture in the second article does indeed show a picture of fish boats in similar setting, but not in the same picture as the students.
At first I though the fishermen story was added by FQs to attract attention. But this story seems to to repeated in official news channels as well, but none really showed concrete photographic evidence. And the story as you said are inconsistent.
In the end, it does take a good amount of probing to reveal the truth. But it is done though physical action of people in the area, rather than speculation and accusation here, a English forum out of all places.
Nice one, whichone. You spend 80% of your post pointing out the inconsistencies in the various factual sources, you state “No wonder there is going to be an investigation!”, and then you make a conclusion about what you think happened anyway. Even though you demonstrated that the factual sources lack reliability.
Where’s that rolling eye emoticon? Good on you for pointing out the discrepancies, but how can you draw any conclusions based on the demonstratedly erroneous sources? Don’t speculate.
An illuminating series of pictures. Provided by a witness who was at the scene, Mr Lu Ming.
Kai, I only noticed the inconsistencies after your comment. Now that I have, I’m a little surprised no one pointed them out earlier, I think most people just glanced through the stories.
This guy is pretty clear, definitely B).
too yellow, you were correct in the other post, the dock house looking building isn’t a boat. In these set of pictures you can see two different fish boats that are near the center of the river.
Moo Goo Kai Pan: I would agree with you in principle that it is not a good idea to speculate, especially when the facts are suspect. In this case, although the stories are inconsistent in their details, they do provide a coherent story overall. But it’s not as if I am some voice of authority, plus it’s the internet, speculating is part of the fun! ;-0
Oh and the sentence about investigation, I wasn’t thinking, it’s obvious the parents (and others) would want the authorities to investigate, even if all the stories are consistent.
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Lastly, I hope I don’t come across as gleeful, but I just realized one of the student who dove immediately and later drowned, his name is 陈及时 – Chinese meaning prompt, without delay – isn’t it incredible?
Much better pics, thanks whichone. At least now we know which fishing boat they are talking about. Good work!
“This article quotes one of the swim team member who rescued several students complaining about the fishermen who did nothing to help, the same person is quoted in another article as saying the fishermen did help, and left after most of the students were rescued, later, several other recovery ships came and haggled over prices.”
I don’t get, how can the same person say two different things? Did the fisherman help or not? The story seems to contradict itself.
Those fisherman represent the real China. A callous, dog eat dog, every man for himself shit hole. Down vote.
For all their faults, western nation take the concepts of Duty of Care @ The Common Good quite seriously. Life in China is a Hobbesian world: short, nasty and brutish. To finish. Veerleft: You dont understand irony re earlier thread. I suspect that you are the beneficiary of a private school education, and we all know that public school boys are seriously attracted to cold showers and pillow biting.
Wrong…lol. 10/10 for effort. I’m sorry if I don’t have a great sense of humor when reading about senselessly selfish acts causing death.
All this reminds me of the woman in the Passat that sank back in Feb.
These are the growing pains of China as it lurches from state controlled poverty to state controlled wealth infatuation. There is no balance (yet) and as I’ve talked about over on my blog over here:
http://www.charlesfrith.com/2009/09/boom.html
China is both a few thousand years old and a couple of years old. An infant and an ancient culture.
The kind souls that were drowned represents 1% of the civilized china, the rest of the 99% are represented by the fishermen…
I would say the same thing about you Frenchman
It can’t be that harder in China to sneak onto a boat and sabotage it.
I didn’t want to be the 1st one to say it…so thanks. We are alike.
misfeasance is not punishable by law…
now that sounds more like life in china..even the dead needs to pay for a little help to rest in the graveyard..it’s all about money money money
they also need help in boards like this against stupid and racist comments to rest in peace.
12000 Kuai seems too cheap for a human life…
Although, it seems more odd that no one offered 15000 each person to the fisherman to save the students…
I want to make a joke about Chinese bargaining practice, but even I am not such a wan ba dan…
I think you may have misunderstood the situation. The “bargaining” occurred because the people around the river did not have that much cash on them, and begged the fishermen to accept what they have, with the promise of returning with more money later. No one on shore is trying pinch a few dollars.
12000 kuai seems too cheap for a human life…
I am surprised no one offered more money for the fisherman to save them…
It’s awful, but my mind is racing with really bad jokes about chinese bargaining practice. I’ll spare you the grief.
On another note, I hope this doesn’t turn into another “old lady in Nanjing” paranoia, and then ending with lots of people using this as an example of keeping to your own business, never lifting a finger outside of your own responsibility.
Appalling, appalling!
How can anyone put the $ infront of the lives of fellow human being let alone they are your own country men!
To let people drown then recover for 12000rmb!? WTF
To me, they are more of animals than human.
While the two parties (students and fishermen) were all Chinese, the cultural gap between them is huge. The fisherman were probably born in the early 60s or perhaps earlier, and lived through the Cultural Revolution, a time when caring about anyone excluding your nuclear-family was foolish. These ‘lao hong wei bing’ (old red guard) exist throughout Chinese society today, even more so in local governments. This is a lost generation built on self preservation, selfishness, and complacency. Strangely, this group got this way through no fault of their own. Just bad timing.
Perhaps the reason for depressing things like this is that the brave souls who saved the children at the cost of their own lives died, while the people who refused to help lived on.
That said, those who gave up their lives should be honored for their bravery even more, lest we ever end up with a day where all the people refuse to help.
This story made the CCTV2 morning news today (Thursday), with the headline specifically focusing on the 36,000 kuai fishermen demanded to scoop up the bodies. Hopefully, with reporters on the scene now, someone will be able to make some real sense of the story. I know that there is a lot of distortion in the media, but most reporters did get proper investigative training in school. We’ll see…
To the Heroes….you will always be remembered by everyone
To the heartless creatures….You and your family will stink for a million years.
The fisherman are probably one of millions of uneducated people. Can’t expect them to think like David Hasselhoff from Baywatch or be a Macgyver and throw a life jacket or a rope to pull the student rescuers to safety.
Maybe this will wake up people to be Samaritans when you see a comrade in need rather than stick their heads in the sand.
Translate this.
http://thechive.com/2009/11/this-dog-could-use-a-hero-10-photos/
A Greater love hath no man, than he that lays down his life for others!