At 8pm on June 30 in Nanjing City, a Buick LaCrosse hit 9 people in Jiangning District and damaged 6 parked cars. Amongst these, 5 people died, including one pregnant woman, while the other 4 people are currently being treated at Jiangning District hospital. The driver was confirmed to have been drunk driving.
WARNING: Some of these pictures and videos may be graphic.
Videos after accident:
Video of a news report:
Video of remorseful driver:
Additional information at EastSouthWestNorth.
From Tianya:
Nanjing Jiangning 6/30 traffic accident, may I ask those police on duty: Could you have given those dead the slightest bit of respect?!
Ever since a Nanjing TX [同学 tong xue, schoolmate] called to tell me about this incident this morning, my heart has been rather uncomfortable.
So tonight I stayed by the television watching N reports about this incident.
[I was] Shocked! Pained! Saddened! Astonished!
With regards to that hit and run project manager, even if I used all of the dirty, crude words in my mind to describe him, they would not be enough. I am speechless! I simply cannot find any language to condemn and insult! I can only say that if in the end he cannot be sentenced to death for endangering public safety, then this world is truly without right or wrong and without justice!
====================================================
However, I am not here just to condemn the perpetrator.
I am not a very gossipy person nor an enthusiastic fenqing.
I am a female, an ordinary citizen, an ordinary spectator/observer.
The reason I have gone on Tianya to make a post is completely because I am angry! Truly too angry!
After seeing that news, what I could not help feeling shock and astonishment was not just the tragic car accident only.
Perhaps not many people have yet noticed
but in the midst of this traffic accident, the every action of those police officers on duty were such that I seriously dared not believe!
I truly really want to say that you guys are too inhumane! Too negligent! Too inconsiderate! Too disrespectful of life!
The entire road was full of police cars and special police cars. In front of huge crowds, in front of injured victims…
you guys actually picked up those broken arms and legs of the deceased, ran over and threw them directly onto that Nissan pickup truck!!!
That is a very small, old, lousy pickup truck, mostly used for electrical work!!!
Yet you guys actually took the dead and just piled them onto the back of the pickup truck!!!
Are the injured lying on the ground not innocent victims? You guys moving bodies like this, in front of all the injured, in front of all the masses on the street, in front of your organizing leadership!!! Are you guys butchers? Do you guys think the bodies in your hands are just lambs to be slaughtered???!!!
Seeing this scene, other than being shocked again and again, I truly do not know what to say!
I know that at the time the scene was very chaotic, and I thought maybe you guys were also maybe panicked? But what kind of people are you?! You are the people’s police, you understand the most how to defend our people, but with this accident, did you suddenly forget how to handle things? With this scene, did you guys just become overwhelmed?
I imagine the scene had too many people and it was very bloody, so maybe you guys were trying to handle everything as quickly as possible to avoid causing a panic! But even if it were so, you guys couldn’t call 120 [ambulance] to come carry away the dead???
Fine, maybe 120 would have taken too much time to come, maybe 120 wasn’t available! But for the lives that were just breathing a few minutes earlier, you couldn’t give these dead just a bit of respect? You guys couldn’t put the bodies in black plastic body bags first and then carry them away???
Fine, maybe you guys did not have any body bags on hand, but did you guys not have any clothes? You guys couldn’t use police uniforms to cover up these poor incomplete/deformed bodies before moving them???
Why??? Why??? Just why???
Facing that woman whose clothes were incomplete, facing that pregnant woman whose abdomen was burst open and the baby who was yet to be born, facing those already deformed victims. Why did you guys have to be so cruel in handling the scene???!!!
What made you guys behave so cold-bloodedly!!! What made you guys not know to respect the dead!!!!
They were all living people!!! Just a few minutes before they were still warm, they were like you guys with parents, with siblings, with children…those police officers!!! How could you guys bear treating the people lying on the ground like this!!!???
Going back ten thousand steps, leaving aside my anger towards you guys, and looking from another angle,
You guys handling the scene this way, handling the bodies as if you were transporting animals, allowed the bloodiness of the scene be completely revealed to the surrounding city citizens! Did you guys think of what kind of social impact this would have!!!???
You guys completely could have used a very humane method, and you guys also should have used a humane method to handle the scene! But you guys did not! All of the media, all of the people present including those of us in front of our televisions, saw was the scene of a slaughterhouse!!! This kind of practice is completely without professionalism!!! Even worse is that there was absolutely not even half a bit of basic respect for the dead, for the living!!!
I have thought of many different kinds of reasons for you guys, but in the end there was not a single one could persuade myself!!! I am just an ordinary girl, and even I could have thought of a better way of handling this. Such basic and necessary methods you guys did not think of? Did you really not think of them???!!!
Traffic accidents really are very intense, and that perpetrator truly deserves to be cursed and spit upon by everyone!!!
But what I want to say is that every single police officer there that night failed to live up to their responsibilities as public servants! You should be ashamed before the people! Ashamed before those dead! Ashamed before their families! I really want to say you guys should be ashamed of yourselves as people!!!
I was too angry, so I came [here]. I wanted to tell everyone who can see this post! I feel those police officers should apologize! The department involved should acknowledge that their handling of the matter was improper!!!
I do not have high hopes that you guys will publicly acknowledge your mistakes. I only hope you guys can realize that you guys really did wrong! I hope at least you guys are not insensitive/uncaring! I hope those police officers on duty can express their apologies to the dead victim’s families! Privately!
Really, I just want you guys to say sorry to those still-hurting and crying family members! Return to those unfortunate departed a bit of dignity!!! The basic dignity one who was part of the human race deserves!!!
Comments from Tianya:
诺曼底登陆D:
Indeed, too disrespectful, like they were carrying livestock.
Abroad they always have body bags.
Although, when no one respects you when you’re alive, what can you expect when dead.
李奇才:
This is handling it with Chinese characteristics? If the perpetrator is not given the death penalty, then that would be administration of justice with extreme Chinese characteristics!!
喜欢杨沛宜:
At least use a piece of cloth to cover up the bodies and use a piece of wood to lift up the bodies, how could they just grab their arms and legs and just throw them onto the vehicle, that is too disrespectful to the dead!
Imagine if the dead were you guys’ own loved ones, would you have treated them the same way?
Police officers, your impression in the hearts of the people is already very poor, yet you guys do not even want to slowly bit by bit change how the people see you? Or do you guys believe there is no big deal with how you handled things this way, because after all it it just a routine way of handling problems?
下坡起步:
During the Sichuan Earthquake, each time the Japanese rescue team found a victim’s body, they observed the dignity of the dead with a collective moment of silence.
诚实的耗子:
I must say a few words. Louzhu, you are over-emotional and it would be good for you to go take a bath before coming back to read the replies!
Under this kind of situation, our JC comrades’ actions were completely understandable. You also know that these days traffic accidents are usually handled quickly…
期待大牛市:
These police officers lack a respect for life, incompetent! I strongly despise!
That driver should be given the death penalty, but unfortunately our country’s criminal law for these kinds of crimes at most is only 7 years and up imprisonment!
塞伦盖提:
At the very least, they should have determined whether or not the people were still alive.
Immediate assistance can save lives.
i9264934:
Every person will one day be disappointed by the true China.
do_it_yourself:
China’s education has never had anything related to respecting life, and the majority of people also do not have a religion. Everything is judged in terms of money, and for something like this to happen is not so strange either, because to those police officers, they think this is normal.
People who lack reverence for life is very frightening, because in certain situations they can very easily become the 1937 Japanese army in Nanjing…
ZF should question itself why Chinese people’s spiritual world has reached this point of collapse…
古道西风瘦驴:
Discussing how to severely punish the killer is much more meaningful than discussing this problem.
CattishCat:
How many times have I been angry, how many days, how many years…
They [government] still do what they always do.
When can they consider the ordinary common people?
Get used to it, just get used to it.
小阿呆xy:
The louzhu’s feelings can be understood, but the police are not doctors, they do not have enough medical knowledge/common sense. Other than this, the average police officer does not often encounter such an intense scene, and most people at the time would probably likely have vomited, but given their duty, they had no choice but to move them.
Were I present, I bet I would be even more lost than them. It is very possible that I would have thrown up then and there, immediately gotten away, and would not have gone to help move the bodies.
Moving body parts requires body bags and a stretcher, but the police does not equip these things. If they did not move them, then they could only wait for 120 [ambulance].
hzxp:
Immediate cleanup to avoid creating negative impact. There are many masses who do not know the truth gathering, and this will be exploited by the minority with ulterior motives.
邪恶的小乌:
I do not know what to say. Seeing them one by one throwing the dead onto the pickup truck was very upsetting…
But I personally believe those police officers were not feeling good about it either.
sunnyfoggy:
1. Louzhu is too naive!!! Are the traffic police your parents? They have a duty to transport the bodies at the scene, but they do not have a duty to treat dead bodies the way a living person is treated, and what more, they are used to seeing dead bodies! You see a scene of bodies and say it is tragic, but how often have you seen even worse? Every few days traffic police need to go touch [dead bodies]! Can you hope that each time the traffic police sees a scene of dead bodies that they will treat them and look after them like their own loved ones? I can say, there are traffic police like this, but very regretfully, the traffic police naive louzhu saw were indeed the same as the vast majority of ordinary traffic police. Not every traffic police are saints!!!
2. Louzhu is too innocent!!! Can you hope that every surgeon when performing surgery can consider every sufferer’s pain, putting himself in other people’s shoes to consider the sufferer? If so, this society would no longer have medical disputes, and there would not be family members of patients staging sit ins in front of hospitals from time to time, blocking the entrance, causing trouble! Can you hope that when the ordinary people’s parents [government officials] are embezzling that they think the money may be the blood and sweat money of the ordinary people, their emergency money? Then China would no longer have corrupt officials!!!
3. Louzhu is too ridiculous!!! Who you are targeting is not the traffic police, but all of society, all of conscience! Even the citizens of developed countries have not reached the louzhu’s ideal heights, much less the citizens of a trivial developing country with an extremely poor education system!
If you have nothing to do, stay in your blankets and think, and if you cannot figure things out, hiding in there and crying is okay too. Society is like this…”so it is!!!”Understand?
Louzhu is still young! Appraisal complete!!!
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Holy crap… I can’t even bring myself look at some of those pictures… ugh…
R.I.P. to the deaths. It’s very sad indeed.
Thats how an upcoming superpower handles this situation? Long way to go..
Yes, I’m sure how a police officer’s handling of a traffic accident is representative of how quickly superpowers can topple small countries.
If you live in Serbia, you would know how The Superpower topple small countries. There’s no connection.
good god, sometimes you never know when your times up.
Death is a hair’s breadth away as they say.
To think about it, sorry for a double comment.
The chinese government should use this to prevent people from drink driving, i mean its sad they died this way but whats worse is the fact its all due to one prick drink driving. He could have chosen to stay sober that night, but he didnt. I think a picture that has a baby burst out of a pregnant mother , would deter alot of fools like him.
I think the penalty for drunk driving is 6 points. I think the penalty for driving the wrong class of vehicle for your license is 12 points.
how many points before your license is suspended?
its like an arcade machine, u can always buy more credits
I’m guessing the cops were just trying to clear traffic. That’s just the Chinese way of doing things. Really sad though.
There needs to be more websites in China where people can at least complain about local law enforcement. I think you could actually make some decent money from something like that before you’d get in trouble. Haha.
“There needs to be more websites in China where people can at least complain about local law enforcement.”
ROFL, I take it from your statement you don’t actually know much about what’s talked about on websites or are you just talking out of your ass? Hilarious either way.
You my friend, are correct in all of your assumptions. I love Chinasmack. It’s my only source for news on China.
Apparently it seems so especially since according to you there isn’t many websites that complain about local law enforcement. LOL
where do u think chinasmack get all its materials from douschebag? do u even read the posted articles + comments?
Right because Chinasmack covers all the millions of websites in China, that’s why famours_in_chiner can say with authority there’s very few discussions about local law enforcement.
“do u even read the posted articles + comments?”
More importantly do you? And I don’t just mean the 10 or so translated comments but the 11 pages and counting on tianya or heck the flame war on kdnet on police conduct?
There are tons of websites in China where people complain about local law enforcement. Where do you think chinaSMACK gets all these stories? From the massive Chinese discussion forums. Chinese complain about anything and everything on them.
The main problem here is that we’re dealing with societal habits and norms that often take generations to evolve. Keep in mind further that much of today’s mainland Chinese are from the era and generation where being a “peasant” was glorified as an ideal by Mao and the Communist Party and their persistent dogma. It’s pretty unrealistic to expect the average mainland Chinese person to have the same attitudes towards life that many people from far more developed and orderly societies take for granted. Beyond “habits”, we’re not even breaching into how population, population density, and socio-economics influence these social attitudes and norms. For most in China, life really is pretty harsh, on a level I don’t think many of us can really appreciate.
I do think an improvement of their lot, of their life, will gradually improve Chinese social norms. It’s just difficult for those of us accustomed to different norms, perhaps from our home countries or whatnot. I mean, just look at how the Shanghainese themselves disparage non-Shanghainese. Within China itself there are widely different standards of social norms, and it all has to do with the above factors.
I think things like this isn’t really the “Chinese” way of doing things, but rather the way of doing things given the circumstances. I’m not sure if I see any willful disrespecting of the dead by the police officers. I’m more inclined to think they were doing what they could given what they had under the circumstances they were in. There are far more heinous examples of police in China disrespecting life, and this is nowhere near.
“I do think an improvement of their lot, of their life, will gradually improve Chinese social norms.”
How so? I’m interested to hear why you think that the broadened accumulation of wealth will lead to more civilized behavior (It’s not the poor guy drunkenly running over pregnant women after all). As mentioned in the article above, I tend to agree that Chinese society’s tendency to “monetize” everything leads to dehumanization, making people more uncivilized towards one another because everything including life/justice/love can be bought and sold. China has accumulated a lot of wealth over the past 30 years? Have social norms improved or has money simply replaced political status as a determinant of social worth?
I guess I’m not ready to buy the myth that a civilized populace comes with the arrival of the monied bourgeoisie. Young democracies in the West were hardly “civilized” even though they were technically founded by the clout of a rising middle class. Shit, the so-called “civilized” USA we see today had to be beaten into us for about 200 years. Improved social norms didn’t come with wealth, it came with a strong government system that gradually forced the majority of people to be civilized.
You’re missing the whole generational issue my comment started off from.
The world over is one large empiracle example of how wealth drives improved social “norms” or “civility” (insofar as it is subjectively defined, of course). The habits we tend to associate with being “uncivilized” are most evident in those who were poor or recently poor. The habits we tend to associate with being “civilized” as most evident in those who are rich or have been rich (nobles, blue-bloods, old wealth, dynasties, etc.).
I’m not saying a civlized populace comes with the arrival of the monied boureoisie. I’m saying there’s a strong correlation, if not causation, that with greater wealth comes social norms you and I interpret as “civilized.” This, of course, still requires evolution over generations, just as the old moneyed Europeans still looked down upon the nouveux riche Americans. Money doesn’t buy class, but over time, over several generations as each successive generation grows up in an increasingly different “more civilized” environemnt, it does.
The strongest “civilized” norms are adhered to because the people find some intrinsic benefit in doing so, whether because it affirms their social status or whatever. A government can force people to behave more civilized, but it will only go so far. It’s best if the people actually believe in what they’re doing, instead of being compelled to do something. The whole thing about life being harsh in China for most people is basically saying that for many Chinese people, they really have far more important things to worry about than certain social niceties. Of course, some of these social niceties are more important than they understand, but you have to be willing to accept that they may not see everything you see.
“The habits we tend to associate with being “uncivilized” are most evident in those who were poor or recently poor.The habits we tend to associate with being “civilized” as most evident in those who are rich or have been rich (nobles, blue-bloods, old wealth, dynasties, etc.). ”
I always like your comments Kai bit I think here you’re missing the point. I would assert that Money in and of itself has never made humans act civilized. The classes you referred to were expected to live up to (or pay lip service to) the “highest” moral, religious and civic standards of society because thay were expected to be paragons of the cultural matrix of the society that produced them.
With increasing wealth comes more education and then people become more civilized – but this only means education enlightens and civilizes people, not money itself.
But If your society doesn’t have a moral, religious or cultural system that defines what is “civilized” and “uncivilized” then your rich classes won’t have it either.
Hey Taojas, right, I’m not saying money in of itself make humans act “civilized.” I’m saying it’s at least a correlating factor, and the circumstances of having wealth is arguably a factor that leads to the development of “civilized” behaviors or habits.
That’s the same thing as what I said here:
Education is part of that environment, whether it be education from your family, school, or peers. Money buys a lifestyle, and that lifestyle shapes who you are and how you behave. Money alone won’t make you “civilized” but it can make your successors more so. This is why I started off talking about this issue being “generational.”
I’m not sure how I’m missing any points you’re reiterating.
Believe it or not, China does have morals, ethics, and culture. It even has religion too. These ARE defined, but they’re not adhered to by a vast majority of people because of ignorance and, largely, poverty. The latter is a matter of varying degrees of subjective importance. If you’re poor, you’re not going to be as nit-picky about certain things when you have different worries and problems than others who aren’t as poor. Maslow’s hierarchy is involved here.
China’s rich classes often don’t exemplify “civilized” behaviors or habits because they’re largely nouveux riche. Remember, all of the real old moneyed classes of China fled to Hong Kong and Taiwan during the civil war. This is especially true for a lot of the rich families from Shanghai. The “rich” mainland Chinese we see today are new rich (with most of the ill-gotten wealth coming from government nepotism, corruption, and exploitation). They were previously peasants, for the most part, and there hasn’t been enough generations for a lot of their old habits to be weaned out from the benefit of dynastic wealth. They’re buying Hummers, for god’s sake. They’re still in the “flash your cash” stage.
If the richest strata of mainland China hasn’t yet developed more “civilized” habits from all of the education and refinements their wealth can buy them, how much less so for even the middle class and poorer classes? Again, remember, China was reset to a “peasantry is glorious” level just one or two generations ago. With money AND time, China’s masses and their social norms will likely improve, as they have in pretty much every society that has had the benefit of increasing wealth and time to develop.
Cheers.
Fckin immoral way of handling deceased,
I wonder the VETO power this country has isn’t from any knowledge or something more developed such as nuclears smthng but man power. People who follow orders without even thinking what will be the consequences, Of course, they aren’t good at maths or they would’ve imagined future.
more older they are getting, more mean, dishonest, illiterate in moral are they becoming.
wtf, wtf with this nation…
Not even one chinese is NOBLE prize winner but a chinese american. ( I won’t count that) and if there is, they say 25% of chinese have the highest IQs, I wonder whats that highest standard of IQ exactly…
That 25% High IQ people are 2 times more than my country’s population.
This nation, land and people are fucking doomed and cursed. R.I.P. to the deaths.
No hope. Ever. Get out of there while you can.
Aw dammit, did you have to post the one with the disemboweled pregnant woman?
I suppose they could have easily covered up the bodies with a piece of cloth, or at least pulled the dead woman’s shirt down before tossing her into the van, or disposing the detached entrails in a box instead of picking it up with your bare hands and throwing it onto the pile of corpses in front of all those spectators
But seriously? I think China and its netizens blow way too many things out of proportion. It’s just a traffic accident, it happens.
There needs to be a procedure to deal with events like this. Anytime when police comes to a scene with fatalities, they need a proper procedure not only to protect the evidence, but to also give respect to those who died and their families and friends.
If the scene is in public view, it needs to be covered. Cheap tents or covers can be set up to cover the dead body until collected. It doesn’t take that long. Dead body should be properly wrapped up and covered to be tranported.
What are the consequences of not doing the above other than to collect and preserve evidences? Can you imagine you are a family member or friend of the Victim and see you one of the pictures above on the news or worse yet, the Internet? We need to give the dead and their families and friends some level of dignity. And it doesn’t cost the police that much more or take more of their time by covering up the body.
That guy really took his time going down the street killing people, give all the gawker people many things to gather round to stare at.
there should be more traffic lights in china so people could actually cross the streets. too many people are jwalking.
^you’re kidding right?
What a fxxxxxx idiot. I know drunk driving is common in this country but this should be a wake up call. What’s the point anyway? There are cheap taxis EVERYWHERE so why the hell would you jump into a 2 tonnes potentially lethal weapon while plastered? The CCP instead of downplaying stuff like this should blow it up, issue a very harsh penalty and let everybody know that this isn’t acceptable behaviour. Make the country better for everybody.
On a second note I love to spot the 50 cent government employed posters on Chinese webpages. Talk about the lowest of the low in terms of jobs,, it’s only inches away from selling your soul.
I think there is nothing to do with government,but the murder must pay for this.
Since when did cheap taxis stop people from drunk driving? Are you fucking inane?
so fxxxing bloody
Woh those are some nasty photos (thanks for the warning this time!!). Is that a dead body just dumped in the back of a pickup truck?
The whole scene is quite ugly （obviously）but where I find the biggest problem is the drunk driver. some say there is little value for life here but this is like cold blooded murder to me.and to give such a person only 7 years is not fair to the nation, to the dead and their families. imagine the pregnant woman’s husband put yourself in his shoes.
and if I were the cops, I think I’d do the same with the bodies if there was no other solution,would you want to work in a sea of mangled parts and corpses? I don’t think so. ｅｙｅ ４ ａｎ ｅｙｅ，ｌｅｔｓ ａｌｌ ｇｏ ｂｌｉｎｄ．ｋｉｌｌ ｔｈａｔ ｆｕｃｋｉｎｇ ｄｒｉｖｅｒ．ｔｈｅｙ ａｒｅ ｔｈｅ ｏｎｅｓ ｔｈａｔ ｍａｋｅ ｄｒｉｎｋｉｎｇ ｌｅｓｓ ｆｕｎ ｆｏｒ ｕｓ
The husband is dead too. FYI
WOW. Just WOW.
Wonders never cease. Incredible stupidity.
Did that bastard get 7 years???? He should get the better part of LIFE in prison.
WTF…
BTW. It’s a Hyundai Sonata… not a Buick LaCrosse.
Someone should stab him while in prison..bet you 7 years later, he will continue to drink again..
or maybe that was just one of the cars he hit….
maybe hes a GTA fan
Well,
The first thing I thought was… What if that was my wife or girlfriend. I think everyone was wrong on this one. The officers and the driver screwed up. If a man hit my pregnant wife, I would be pissed. But, to throw her exposed body into the back of a pick up van would make me lose it.
I don’t think 7 years is long enough. However, I don’t agree that this idiot should get the death penalty. There is no excuse for drunk driving. But, I don’t think killing him would fix this problem.
There needs to be a wide exposal of drunk driving in China. Also, many people DONT FOLLOW TRAFFIC LAWS and the police don’t pull them over. Its the main reason why I will never buy a car in China. It’s upsetting. Next time you are in a taxi, look at lane changes. I always see an idiot not his signals.
BUT THE BIGGEST TRAFFIC CRISES: Being able to buy a drivers license in China. Yup, its possible and easy.
I agree, I don’t think any of the loved ones, friends, or relatives would appreciate how the police handled the bodies. I definitely would be pissed if my wife and unborn child were handled that way.
However, I think a lot of the Chinese commenters already addressed the good point that sometimes not everything and everything is considered before action is taken. I, too, am not willing to go so far as to think they were intentionally disrespectful or insensitive. A lot of horrible shit happens in China, but I’d still wager that most traffic police don’t see such gruesome accidents THAT often for them to be so desensitized and NOT be overwhelmed by this kind of scene.
Of course, I do agree with many of the complaints and think the police could’ve exercised more sensitivity. I think we all wish that, but how reasonable those expectations are is up for debate. I wonder if they have come out to offer any explanations for how they handled things, whether they thought it was more imperative for them to clean up the scene as soon as possible (its kinda disrespectful to leave bodies out, covered or not, for people to continuously gawk at too), or if really were just hopelessly insensitive. The latter would definitely warrant condemnation, but I doubt that was the case. There are very few people in the world who can see a mangled pregnant woman with her unborn child popped out and not be emotional. I think the officers definitely had to rely on suppressing their emotions to get through doing what they felt was their duty to do. I’m sympathetic to everyone involved.
Okay, except maybe the driver, who was fucking 5x over the limit. But then again, he does seem downright remorseful in the video. Can you imagine if he wasn’t? The internet would be out with pitchforks, and understandably so. I agree that the death penalty probably isn’t the answer, as he didn’t INTEND to kill all these people. He just ROYALLY fucked up, and he should definitely receive punishment that accounts for the fact that he’s a repeat offender. I’d like to see this guy try to atone for his crime by personally sharing his story and using himself as an example to educate and fight against drunk driving for the rest of his life. I also agree the government should do more PSAs on drunk driving and less PSAs on Google linking to porn.
The biggest problem is lack of consistent traffic enforcement by human police (that is, not cameras on the roads and intersections). You can go through the driving tests and pass, but if people realize that they can get away with every traffic violation, they will do it. Too many police officers in the office pushing papers and not enough on the streets. Police don’t need to worry about lack of enforcement anyhow, because the courts will always side with an arm of the government.
The John, your comment about being able to purchase licenses was spot on and reflects a broader issue that, as we all know, lies at the core of so many of China’s social challenges: official corruption. When you let standards slip, people die. And then they riot. I firmly believe that official corruption and negligence is tearing this place apart.
That’s exactly the issue. The current state of law enforcement on the roads—at least in Shanghai—is “give fines for traffic violations.” There appears to be little or no attempt to educate drivers of safe driving habits, road etiquette, or the consequences of unsafe (or drunk) driving.
Like in so many other areas, there is no effort by government or police to improve, because there is no profit in that. It’s a shame, because “Better City, Better Life” would have been the perfect pretense to get the city to embrace such campaigns.
Instead, the government has invested in putting up thousands of statuettes of HAIBAO!
This isn’t some rural armpit; Jiangning is the university district/economic development zone on the southern edge of Nanjing. Should have been handled better, in other words. True though, traffic and traffic management in Nanjing is dreadful. From aggressive taxi drivers to speeding public buses, pedestrians and bicycles ignoring traffic signals, the ongoing subway/tunnel/overpass work all over town…it’s really a mess and there’s a generally laissez-faire approach to dealing with it.
It’s true, these cops show less respect for dead humans than other countries show to dead animals. Fucking just cover them with a sheet or tarp, right? Does China not have body bags?
I think some terrible things like this people just can’t atone for. Of course he’s remorseful, after the fact. He knows what he did is wrong because he knew it was wrong before he did yet he still put himself in the situation. He’s done it before, he might do it again, just take him out back and shoot him; like the dog that’s bitten the wrong people a few too many times. Who cares about him?
I’m deciding to get loaded and drive out my beemer to squash whoever i don’t give a shit. 7 years for 7 people, faire enough
What the fuck. I mean seriously, what the fuck. There was any number of things they could have done to cover up the dead. Heck, even a random towel or blanket would have helped.
But on the other hand, maybe the police were really freaked out and the only way they could deal with it was to “see” the bodies as non-human. Else they wouldn’t even be able to bring themselves to dispose of the bodies.
To be honest, if it were me on the spot, I’d have some difficulty not throwing up. Note that the video only provides visual and not smell and other senses.
King of all drunk drivers or the true GTA pro :/
Life is cheap in China. Sorry. Kill a baby with poisoned milk and you only need to pay 200,000 RMB. You’d easily get $1,000,000+ in the US, even if the kid was from a poor minority living in a ghetto.
Lawyers also take cases on contingency in the US so you can sue assholes like this even if you’re poor. Just threatening to show the pickup truck photo to a jury and the defendant would settle. Once assholes start losing their homes and paychecks to pay verdicts I think people will do a better job following the traffic laws.
“Life is cheap in China. Sorry. Kill a baby with poisoned milk and you only need to pay 200,000 RMB. You’d easily get $1,000,000+ in the US, even if the kid was from a poor minority living in a ghetto.”
In the US the company declares bankruptcy and the victims gets shit. Maybe you should donate to the victims of the tainted peanut butter scandal.
And lawyers suing on contingency in the USA is a good thing? I beg to differ. I think it is one of the worst aspects of American life. It raises my insurance rates for everything — home, auto, health, and umbrella. I’d prefer if there were some standard payouts. You kill a person out of negligence it costs $1M. No more or less. Then scale it with inflation adjustments every year. But, the current trial lawyer based system is messed up. The only people that get rich are the lawyers.
Lawyers being paid on contingency has its pros and cons. For example:
Pro: Plaintiffs can still get legal assistance so long as the defendent has assets and the case is good. This leverages the lawyer’s self-interest to work for free for a potential payout.
Con: Leveraging self-interest can foster greed, and then you get into frivolous lawsuits being taken by lawyers working on contingency purely because the defendent has a lot of assets.
I don’t think the existence of contingency compensation for lawyers has anything to do with standardized payments. America has guidelines on punishment (including fines), but that’s mostly for criminal cases. Civil compensation cases are another matter, and that’s where these huge compensation sums come from. China does have certain legal guidelines (and limits) on compensation, but it lacks a strong judicial system that makes civil suits viable as a means for “the little guy” to get compensation when he’s dicked by “the big guy.”
Kai, I agree that there are pros and cons. I’d use the system if I had to. But, as China matures I hope that the system that develops doesn’t involve the greedy ambulance chasers. It is a delicate balance between giving voice to the little guy and keeping costs down for everyone. But, here’s hoping that the powers that be in China end up with a more efficent system (and one that isn’t corrupt).
Also, I don’t know what prisons are like in China but going to prison in the US is much worse than the death penalty. 7 years in a US prison and this guy will be so sore he won’t ever be able to sit down again.
@ spanky
Is that why you are always standing up?
to all the Lao Wais in China, run before you’re run over!
Using this as a warning is a waste of time. The only way people will start to obey laws is when its not possible to pay their way out of a situation or pick a phone up and use guanxi (connections). While this still goes on, every Tom, Dick and Harry will kid themselves into thinking there are easy ways out of punishment.
Laws should be for EVERYONE, not a select few and that goes for the nutters that allowed on the streets without plates.
Children standing on the front of all manner of bikes is also a deathtrap situation and the amount of cars on the roads without lights is terrifying!!!!!!!
IN-CRE-DI-BLE
UN-BE-LIE-VA-BLE
!!!!!!!!
Here is the “civilization” that comes with China’s increasing wealth.
One of my former bosses lives in a Villa neighborhood in shanghai. while he was walking behind his children, a man in a BMW SUV came barreling down the road coming close to hitting his children.
My former boss caught up to the guy at his villa and asked him what his problem was driving so fast in a suburban area with a an obviously large population of children. His reply (he is Chinese).
“This is china, I will do what I want lao wai” “you are a foreigner, you can have more children, besides, my car and house are better than yours so fcuk off.”
THAT is CHINA. FCUK DA LU REN
LOL, well i think most crazy laowai’s(probally only me) would just kill him if he actually did hit the kids.
Then i’d hide his body, and pay a few RMB, here and there, since its china! :) Heck does china even have a CSI unit?
Jay – u can do that in america and pay no money and get away with it
truth is that you can do that in almost every country especially in 3rd world country, which China still is.
Does China have a CSI Unit?
Does the RED GUARD count?
“THAT is CHINA. FCUK DA LU REN”
Nah, your flawed reasoning is called the fundamental attribution error, whereby you take one example and attribute it to an entire country. Just as ignorant as implying an American beating a pregnant teenager means
AMERICANS ARE BABY KILLERS, HAR HAR
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7656448
Bro,
Its not just ONE example. It happens over and over and over again. Almost every DLR has the same brain as they are trained like Pavlovian dogs to respond in the same manner to certain situations.
Yes you can post one of maybe 5 total stories over the years of Americans doing some heinous crimes, but you can find it EVERY DAY in DA LU LAND.
I agree that Chinese people and their reactions are painfully predictable in many cases.
LoL, come on FDLR, I know you’ve got some good heartwarming stories of China too. ;)
Seriously, though, I think your stories are entirely topically relevant, but you’d do everyone a favor by laying off on the hasty generalization fallacies. Could you do that for us, in the interest of fostering greater Chinese-Foreigner mutual understanding and respect? Come one, FDLR, I know you can do it! ;)
What a crap !!!
Did you see those people who were watching the body took off a cloth to cover the body ? Would you have taken off your cloth to cover the body if you had been there ?
Fcuk Da Lu Ren
go fook yourself. You people are using your children’s money, your grandchildren’s money and never have intention to return the money, while pretending how much you care for children. How disgusting !!!
Give me a f@#$ing break.
@whahaha,
I really can’t understand WTF you are talking about, but if you are speaking about the American economy, maybe you should stick to the subject at hand which is, Chinese people don’t care about anyone else but THEMSELVES, and that the richer they are, the more of an A HOLE they are.
“while pretending you care for children?” Its not Americans throwing away children in the countryside in masses, or if they have defects. Its not American companies poisoning kids with milk powder so they can make millions off of dead kids. Its not American companies building schools that fall down on children.
FOOK YOURSELF :)
The subject was how the police handled the bodies in this case. If you start veering off into wild generalizations of all Chinese not caring about anyone but themselves, why can’t wahaha veer off into wild generalizations of all Americans borrowing against their futures living beyond their means? Likewise, you shouldn’t rib wahaha for changing the subject when you changed the subject into selective abortions, milk powder scandals, and tofu dreg buildings.
Don’t mistake the subject as “bashing China” and get on other people’s cases for when they get on your case for making that mistake. You want to be the rhetorically sophisticated and advanced foreigner? Let “them” make the mistake of changing the subject first. Don’t be the foreigner who comes across as having some sort of entitlement to complain.
FDLR,
Since when you westerners give a fuck about the others, huh ? All you care is keeping other as your servants. If not, then try best to cause trouble in that country, what else ? what is funny is idiots like you try to think themselves as moral standard while using your children’s money and grantchildren’s money. go check the debt France and British own to their children.
I saw a documentary of 3 british tourists visiting a lavish palace in a poor province in India, they talked beautiful palace, beautiful scene and … beautiful people, I almost threw up, and funny such people talk about morality.
Go mind your own f@#$ing business, pay back the debt @$$hole like you own to your children.
China has its fair amount of public debt too. Not that it would ever be talked about in the Chinese media.
But, all the state owned banks and enterprises are lending money like crazy right now to force growth to 8 percent. Lending standards are lax and corruption (Capitalism with Chinese characteristics) is rampant. Some are suggesting that the recent runnup in the Shanghai stock market is because of stimulus funds being used to purchase stock. The debt of these state owned enterprises is public debt (as the profits would be), but isn’t accounted that way. The implication is that there are a lot of debt (including bad debt) out there that doesn’t get counted “offically”.
Adding to the problem is the lack of transparency (a Chinese characteristic). Hopefully it gets cleared up and paid for, but if it doesn’t this global slowdown may linger for a lot longer.
Here’s the source:
http://chinese.wsj.com/gb/20090617/col160546.asp?source=UpFeature
In the west we have something called CHARITY.
The West isn’t perfect but at least we have homeless shelters and non-profit organizations that try to help people.
Oh, BTW, do you know the toxic rice scandal in Japan ?
Do you know France and German sold billions of dollars to Saddam Hussein to kill Iraq people ?
Guess you dont know, as you pea brain is not big enough for more information.
Whahaha,
Again, your little predictable DLR pea brain reverts to the only thing it knows when a certain aspect of DLR character is attack: BLAME THE WEST!!!
Let me remind you again, because I know your little chi mate mind has a hard time staying focused without a green dam to protect you.
I was talking about DLR’s attitudes towards human life and the lack of character that comes with the increase of wealth.
Our grandchildren will be fine, don’t worry about them, see we can handle and adapt to adversity unlike you DLR’s.
British tourists visiting poor hotels in India? is that the best you’ve got. Why don’t you go ask the Anhui clerk who makes 700 rmb a month while her family starves what she thinks of the govt official spending 100,000 RMB at the whore house that she works at? (This happens daily in the PRWC).
Toxic rice scandal in Japan? Dude half the the shit you sell, put in the water and air is fake or poison.
“Do you know France and German sold billions of dollars to Saddam Hussein to kill Iraq people ?”
Sold what?? Arms? you mean like all of those you sell all over the world that are killing people in Africa, Middle East, and eastern Europe? AK47 is Chinese made baby!!
Do you know that DLR’s are responsible in some way or another for more deaths in the last 50 years that ALL WARS IN HISTORY COMBINED. Way to go China. You are so great. 5,000 years of sniveling, deceiving monkeydom.
When you how Chinese people drive you understand why so many people gets killed in traffic accidents in a country with 5000 years of civilization. Incidents like this also happens when Chinese drivers are sober
FDLR,
You are not qualified to judge others, get it, dimwit ?
Your f@#$ing ancestors built the wealth and power on the misery of people in other countries like China and India. Now you come here to educate us about morality ?
Go to the ceremetary to talk to your ancestors about morality, OK?
The funny thing is I don’t even like FLDR and barely agree with him but you’re just an idiot. Your arguments are stupid – you talk like EVERYONE WHO DOESN’T LIVE IN CHINA is from some sort of imperialist monoculture. It’s really sad, because the world is big and 老外 in China come from tons of different places but you just see them as foreigners, like we’re all the same family or something.
You can’t even think critically about your own culture. It’s really sad.
You don’t even like me? Come on man, I am just ranting a bit. I like riling up little DLR’s like Whahaha. It helps take the edge of me having to listen to cross talk the entire taxi ride to the office.
BTW, do Chinese people really like that shit??? How can anyone get excited about one man telling a story and getting excited about putting on his shoes???
Dude seriously? what has China given the world in the past….. EVER. BTW, your welcome for building your economy ;)
Without the “West” you would still be having rice ration coupons and chanting chairman Mao slogans.
Chimatron haha
And btw, Americans on the whole at least know what their history is and the mistakes and things that they have done wrong. You live in a made up reality of brainwashed monkeydom.
If you lurk around chinaSMACK long enough, you’ll quickly learn to categorically ignore FDLR’s comments. He’s just trolling and those who have been long around to get to know him actually ignore him because his trollish comments are always so over-the-top you learn not to take him seriously. Plus, if you press him, he actually capitulates and admits he actually does have a superego that normally controls the id he allows to run rampant here (in other words, he doesn’t really believe what he says, he just does it to get a rise out of people).
My advice, as a long-timer, is to just vote his comments down. Either that, or I imagine if enough people complain, Fauna will start deleting his comments. He’s probably the longest-surviving troll that hasn’t been smacked down by the almighty Fauna. Maybe I shouldn’t speak up for him anymore. ;)
Ahh come on KAI, I don’t get a voice??? Venting frustrations is what the internet is all about. I think I speak for a large portion of Ex Patriots either having lived in, or living in China.
If that voice is quelled then who will stand up for them? I just don’t get why its ok for guys like Yellow Master Race and Whahhaha can spout off all they want about whites, westerners, and anything else they want to call us but we can’t say anything back?
I spent the weekend with my Chinese friends, whom I have no problem with. My remarks are to guys like Whahaha who see themselves as superior or “awestastic” when in reality, they have a long way to go. Vote my comments down if you don’t like them fine, but a lot of them are TRUE.
Oh come now, FDLR, don’t elevate this into some silly freedom of speech thing. You are, of course, free to express whatever you want, just as others are free to express their disagreement with you, my suggestion that you rein it in, and, I dunno, Fauna’s freedom to ban hammer you all. LoL. You’ve seen my arguments with people like Asis/Our China, I shouldn’t have to go through this again with you. You’re venting your frustrations and others are venting their’s with your venting. It all boils down to the same thing. There are also different ways to vent frustrations and, as humans with massive brains, we can actually use rationality and consideration (of others and of consequences) to control our emotional impulses.
But you know all of this already.
Look, just saying you’re overdoing it. Trollish behavior is trollish behavior, and you’re less responding and more provoking. Intentionally instigating or provoking others with racist or derogatory overtones makes you just as bad as the asshole your former boss met. If you don’t like Chinese people who do that, you shouldn’t do likewise.
It’s one thing to fight fire against fire (like being an asshole right back at that asshole your former boss met) and another thing to take it out on other innocent or unrelated people. If a Chinese person fucks with you, get in THEIR face, not in the faces of other Chinese people who had nothing to do with it other than sharing a common skin color, home country, or society. We both know assholery isn’t a genetic condition associated with being Chinese, so you carelessly throwing such overtones around rightfully gets on people’s nerves.
The thing is you know it and you do it on purpose for fun. You’re going around pissing people off for fun. That’s just not cool. It may be funny or tolerable for those of us in the know, but chinaSMACK is getting bigger by the day and continually indulging you pretty much breeds greater and greater intolerance and hatred. It also makes chinaSMACK less fun to be around, and you and I both know chinaSMACK isn’t being maintained to be a forum for bashing China and Chinese. It was developed to be the opposite.
I think I tolerate yellow master race (whahaha is pretty new, right?) because I tolerate you. Both of you, to me, are so obviously overdoing it that I can’t take either of you seriously and I kinda suspect both of you know it. I don’t give you guys a hard time unlike Asis/Our China or some other people who actually take themselves seriously and genuinely are oblivious to their self-righteousness. That said, I do officially disagree with much of what you and yellow master race or the often post. I disagree with all of the blatant racism and indefensible ignorance or hate here.
I definitely think there’s reverse discrimination against whites too (but I mostly see this in the States). I think white people are as burdened by this as Chinese people are burdened by their own past as Communists or whatever.
I don’t recall any comments by Whahaha that suggests he thinks he’s superior or “awetastic” (great word, have to incorporate it into my usage). I don’t see the vast majority of Chinese people feeling or expressing such either. There are, of course, always some, just like how most foreigners in China are actually genuinely decent people, but some are assholes, and even genuinely decent people can say some awful and unfair things out of ignorance or emotion at times. I saw Whahaha as being the typical Chinese reaction to your typical Western expression of contempt. The rhetoric in both are bad. ;)
Your comments are true for who they are applicable to. They’re not true when they suggest they’re applicable to all Chinese. You’re smart enough to understand the semantics in all this.
BTW Kai, I will be in Shanghai soon and wanted to meet up? Anyway I can get an email address from you? Do you have a web page?
Yeah, sure, click my name for my blog. Then use the contact form to get ahold of me. I’d rather not throw up my e-mail for fear of spammers or whatever. Or, if Fauna is reading this, she can go ahead and send you my e-mail.
Cool man I will find it and we can meet up. You will be shocked to find me mild mannered and maybe even polite lol
LoL, no worries, I won’t be surprised. As I’ve said before, I’m pretty confident in you being a pretty decent guy in real life (like most people, however much they let go of themselves on the internet). It’s the whole anonymity thing, whereas interacting in real life pretty much forces us to be more rational, reasonable, and respectful with each other.
couldn’t the useless as ever police given the poor lady and her unborn child the dignity of covering her body and putting her in an ambulance? Fucking disgusting way to treat someones body.
Dignity in China?
Not happening any time soon.
I should have scroll down to the article but caught the graphic images. I regret seeing it. Feel absolutely sorry for the victims. I would have thought Nanjing (old historical capital) of China would have decent emergency procedures like covering the victims up or putting them in an ambulance.
Putting the bodies at the back of a pickup truck for public display. Very crude way to process casualties.
Many people get run on the road each day in China and elsewhere. But as a story such as this gets posted on the net, hopefully the authorities will take notice and at least and maybe do things differently next time.
BTW, Chinese killing Chinese is not a bad thing. Who cares? Really?
It is funny to think about but the people that went to America and killed the natives were the garbage that could not make it in Europe.
“Dude seriously? what has China given the world in the past….. EVER. BTW, your welcome for building your economy ;”
FDLR,
LOL, China had given world lot of technology until they were suppassed by Westerners, maybe you should learn your own history how your ancestors reacted when they learned there was something called silk.
Yeah, China is lagging a lot behind West on technology, not Culture, OK ? No culture in human history was able to change the course of chinese culture, OK ?
Yes, chinese killing Chinese is a bad thing; father raped their daughter is a bad thing, who cares, really ?
Ok, so China gave the world silk…..and?
What else?
Personally, silk is not an important part of my daily life and I don’t know if it qualifies as technology.
“chinese killing Chinese is a bad thing; father raped their daughter is a bad thing, who cares, really ?” – Whahaha
Who cares?
Um, people with morals?
And btw, if you think I am so bad, go read some of the English forums on China Daily. Those guys get to write PAGES of hate and anti western trolling without a single worry or retaliation.
LoL, yeah, I know what you mean about China Daily (you read it?). I automatically assume the website of a government mouthpiece to be unfair in its moderation but I think chinaSMACK is pretty fair. At the very least, we see a lot of expat/foreigner/westerner bitching on here that doesn’t get taken down. We see less Chinese responses and defenses though, but I think that’s because there’s just less Chinese people on here (or they’re disinclined to respond because they think they can’t scream louder than the expat/foreigners).
Either way, we’re all part of this “community” and we naturally tend to care more about whatever community we value being a part of. I’m just calling you out now because enough anti-FDLR sentiment has built up from newcomers that an old fogey should step out and say something to calm the masses or something.
Thanks for calming down the masses Kai, although I do disagree with you a bit on his intention I do recognize that my periodic trolling does incite riots, but also does increase the forum lengths and give people something to talk about ;) (much love Fauna).
FDLR,
Have you ever thought why Westerners can sell their idea so easily in other countries (as long as not dominated by religions), but have had so much trouble in China ?
Liberty an essence part of your culture, right? here is an example :
John Stuart Mill said this in his famous Essay on Liberty:
“The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinions of others, to do so would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him, or persuading him, or entreating him, but not for compelling him, or visiting him with any evil, in case he do otherwise. To justify that, the conduct from which it is desired to deter him must be calculated to produce evil to someone else.”
Can you see why this is a “great” thought that leads to nowhere ? If you can understand that, maybe you will understand that everything(culture, systems, etc) has two sides, the yin and yang.
What does that have to do with anything that I have written thus far? I am simply stating that the MAJORITY of Chinese have little care or regard for others. They have proven not only to me, but to each other that they are only interested in protecting themselves and maybe those around them.
Where does this come from? Well there are a lot of different explanations from absence of belief to cultural revolution. That being said there are even SOME Chinese who also see these patterns of behavior as WRONG. Lu Xun talked about this far before I ever arrived here.
I am in no way advocating western democracy or religious beliefs in China (although some religion could do some good her). I am simply stating a fact of where China stands morally at its present state.
I am also refuting your meaningless points you keep trying to make by deferring from the actual subject to some way in which western countries can be blamed for the evil in the world.
The fact is you, like MANY DLR’s refuse to accept responsibility and critisizm for your actions whilst at the same time very openly pointing the finger at other nations whom you all categorize as “lao wai”. That is a FACT.
Understanding other cultures and systems is something that CHINESE need to understand more than most of us “westerners”. There are many concepts of Chinese culture that I admire and have adopted. That being said however I have earned the right through my experience IN CHINA to make critisizms of things that I believe anyone with a moral conscience would also make. You unfortunately cannot see past nationalism to accept those faults and try to make a change.
Which in terms gives me the platform to logically destroy you and inspires me to make over the top comments.
BTW, I don’t care what name you use.
FDLR,
Do you know the meaning of your screen name ?
What if I use a screenname like “Fook Fa Guo Ren” ?
What if I use a screenname like “Fook Fa Guo Ren” ? – Whahaha
I don’t think anyone would really care.
A lot of (non-chinese) people have reasonably thick skin.
Drunk driver’s are taken too lightly by the Chinese law. Drinking and driving is a deadly combination and should always be taken seriously, and follow-up action should be instituted in the form of fines, re-education, counseling; etc.
Drunk driving is always a serious charge, but DUI / DWI that involves the death of someone other than the driver should carry extraordinarily severe charges for intentional drinking and driving. Drunk Drivers who cause the death of another person while under the influence should face the maximum charges of second-degree murder, manslaughter, or vehicular homicide.
A life forever destroyed by a drunk driver
http://www.fnnc.org/drunk-driving.html
Oh man that was brutal
FDLR,
1) Change your screenname.
2) Your comment “Understanding other cultures and systems is something that CHINESE need to understand more than most of us “westerners”. ”
That is what Chinese are doing : trying to understand your system and culture. You understand your system ? most Westerners dont understand their system, yeah, I say that, most westerners dont understand their system. If you dont believe, google “California proposition 13″ to see how people and activitists devastated their own lives.
Again, you fail to grasp. Americans do realized their systems have flaws, but on the whole are EONS beyond China’s fuedalistic, corrupt, totalitarianism.
Again you use a miniscule example of one instance to try to show how bad America is, meanwhile we have in the past 100 years contributed more to the world then all countries combined (far behind and in second is Japan, built by the US.) By the way did you happen to notice that we have an Black ELECTED president? How’s that for progress.
Chinese are not trying to understand western cultures, they are smart enough to try to extract the knowledge of the west and then in the end tell us all to FCUK off which I applaud them for tricking some stupid westerners into giving them.
Chinese are quite content to live in a society in which even they suffer and still defend it whenever anyone from outside points a critical finger in their direction. Fine that is your right, but don’t blame me because you do horrific things that affect you and the rest of the world and then get mad at me for pointing it out.
That is the reason I have this SN. BTW, I don’t need to hear about your 5,000 years of history and culture blah blah, the only ones who have really maintained anyo of that culture are the ones who lived outside of the mainland after the “liberation”. You live under the fallacy of the People’s Republic of Make believe.
I wish we could whitewash history half as good. Then I wouldn’t have to give up my position at work when and underqualified mexican gets a job because he is a minority. ;) See I hate everyone equally.
“Chinese are not trying to understand western cultures”
So true.
China: 5000 years and still developing….
FDLR, I don’t think Whahaha is trying to deny, excuse, or whitewash the bad and ugly things in China by bringing up non-Chinese examples. If he is, then you’re right in pointing out the fallacy in him doing so. However, his intent seems to be to temper your behavior, your needlessly inflammatory venting or condemnations, etc.
Whahaha’s objection to your name, I think, reinforces this. He simply finds your generalizations to be offensive, as many have before him. I think you know this, and I think you hold onto your name and “behavior” here mostly out of immature (but understandable) flippancy. The more you typecast and dismiss both him and his arguments as the typical hyper-nationalist fenqing knee-jerk reaction, the less I think you see what is driving him. And what’s driving him really boils back down to you and your own comments. You make comments knowing full-well how inflmmatory they are, and that they’ll instigate a reaction. You’re now getting that reaction.
You don’t really have the moral high ground in this. The argument between you and Whahaha isn’t about China or the bad and ugly things that are part of it. The argument is about your attitude/comments/behavior here. Just as Whahaha dragging out examples of Western evils doesn’t excuse Chinese evils, you dragging out examples of Chinese evils doesn’t excuse your inflammatory and instigatory behavior.
His objection is with you, not with how true or valid some of the things you say may be.
Road accidents kill 300 a day in China
Latest research shows that every day in China at least 300 people are killed in traffic accidents, ranking the country top in the world for both the death toll and the death rate. And the figure is accelerating by 10 per cent every year.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/12/content_322695.htm
Once again China gets the gold medal!
so many states and cities in US and Europe are deep in debt, you call it “a miniscule example”? LOL
You know your system ? hahahahaha.
Do you know why so many cities and states are deep in debt ? are those elected decision-makers idiots ?
Do you know that the infrastructure in US needs over one trillon dollars to fix ? how come govenment hasnt tried to fix them early ?
Do you know that the 200 billion dollars given to AIG is forever gone ? Do you know where the money went to ?(Yeah, American people get 20 billion dollars tax return.)
Do you know why the 700 billion dollars was passed within a week without any condition though most people dont like it ?
Do you know why in democratic countries there is no conflict between ordinary people and the rich who benefit most from the system ? doesnt it sound wierd to you ?
Do you know why in developing democratic countries, people who lived in slums 15 years ago are still hopelessly living in slums ? isnt elected government people’s government ?
Do you know that in India, 40+% of kids under age 5 are underweight ?
You dont know the what democracy is about, dickheak.( I will call you dickhead until you change your screenname) and with all the holes in democratic system, lot of Chinese rather let the change come gradually, so dont blame lot of Chinese think differently about democracy.
‘Democracy’ is riddled with flaws, of course…but do you think the massively disproportionate contribution to contemporary culture that Jamaica (for one particularly salient example), an impoverished island with the population of a provincial Chinese one-horse town, has made in the last 50 or so years would have happened if its people were subject to the same crushing uniformity and brainwashing of PR China’s sterile, soulless, kitsch dictatorship?
Maybe there’d be a whole lot more tumultousness in China if it was democratized, granted, but at least it would contribute more to the world’s contemporary culture other than huge profit margins for Louis Vuitton and Chivas whisky.
Whahaha/Wahaha,
Thanks for pointing out what everyone already knows. Shock horror, the West is not perfect!
I’m sure that I’d have my reservations about democracy if I was from PR China, a quick glance at 1990s Russia, Central America etc would be enough to peturb me. However, there is something that you, and many other mainlanders misunderstand when it comes to Western democracy. It’s not just a system of government. It’s not just measured in national debt, investment in infrastructure and state referenda, and by the extent to which its citizens ‘understand’ it. It goes much deeper than that. The rule of law, respect for individual rights, openess, and the subsequent flourishing of culture (both high and low) and innovation that go hand in hand with democracy in the developed nations of the world lies at the root of why YOU, as you read this, are dressed in western clothes, why the bulk of the music Chinese people listen to is made in Hong Kong and Taiwan, why Chinese girls slavishly copy their counterparts in Japan and S.Korea down to the gestures they make in photographs, why China’s high streets are overflowing with Western/Korean/Japanese goods and brand names, why provocative, well-written Western comedies,dramas and movies and high-quality Japanese anime are enjoyed world over whilst China’s harmonized, brainwashed 1.3 billion people produce nothing other than sterile， trite shit like 小沈阳 and 喜喜羊…the list goes on, and on, and on.
Even the people ‘hopelessly living in slums’ in the West contribute to this…remember that next time you see a chubby Chinese rich kid draped in Fubu clothing with hip-hop blaring on his i-pod. The idea of the hundreds of millions of Chinese poor producing a culture one iota as creative as the ’slum-dwellers’ of the West is laughable.
That’s not to say that China ought to adopt a carbon-copy of Western democracy. But at least concede the debt of gratitude that you owe to it.
Pug,
I am with you on this. That is my point. Despite America’s numerous problems, over all it is still I belive one of the only places on the earth where if you really have a dream, you can achieve it.
It just gets tiring listening to guys like Wahaha trying to piss and moan and blame us whenever we point something out.
For me FCUK DLR came from my experiences here in the mainland. Its not the people that I dispise, its the ideology that is so firmly entrenched that I can with 90% accuraccy know what is going to come out of someone’s mouth here before they even talk to me, and 90% is directed at how China is great and the west sucks albeit maybe not outrightly spoken.
Yes maybe I am bit too sensative and that creates over the top responses, but the frustrations come from real life experience here. Whahahah just proves again and again whenever he talks. I know I am not the cleanest sheep in the flock guys and take responsibility for my comments, but in some ways you know what, when somebody pisses you off over and over, where I come from, you tell the them to FCUK OFF ;)
Basically, I’m exactly the same. The incessant parroting of slogans (exactly the same wherever you go from Haerbin to Lijiang) and the schitzo dichotomy between worshiping all things foreign on one hand whilst overflowing with ill-thought out, infantile, knee-jerk nationalism on the other has *really* worn me down over the years.
Plus, the playground bully in me cannot help but be offended by the fact that noone is offended enough by the fact that the chimatrons are a bunch of scrawny acorn-cocked pussies with universally awful hairstyles and halitosis who jizz their pants on the rare occasion they manage to look a girl in the eye to flush their heads down toilets en masse….hoho!
Dude, that was poetic…. and true….you are my new best friend. let’s not forget rolled up pant legs and cross talk.
Rolled-up trouser legs and cross-talk…that’s more the realm of the older generation of Chimates, otherwise known as the ‘Chinosaurs’. Recognizable by the way they fix up their comb-over dyed black strands of hair in public, penchant for overpriced (to the tune of 600-2000rmb) acrylic polo shirts with mystifying patterns in orange brown and purple, and who wag their fingers wildly after a sip or two of baijiu has turned them fluorescent red in the face.
In fact I used to refer to the acrylic polo-shirts as ‘ghetto golf’ style, until I realised that the wearers were actually captains of industry who had paid thousands for their singularly dreadful leisurewear, rather than off-duty construction workers who’d paid 15rmb for them as i imagined.
Where is RAGE when we need him…
Rage are you there? Lurking in the dark? Common boy don’t be shy, it’s your turn to hit the stage now.
Pug is awesome.
90% you know so you can FCUK OFF, no excuse it is still racial.
it isn’t easy for a normal chinese guy to think openly, maybe the best way is stop talking, i am sure one day you will meet some “good chinese”…..
“it isn’t easy for a normal chinese guy to think openly”
Good point. I think most of us can agree with this statement.
I think I saw a T.V. show once where someone like Whahaha was arguing with someone like FDLR… They were both so over the top in their comments and actions… They eventually fell in love…
LoL, dude, don’t scare FDLR.
so far that is the brainiest comment i saw……
bravo!!!!!
There is a tendency that any negative opinion toward anything remotely Chinese will turn into a China VS West brawl.
Yes notice its China vs West. Like China is the only Eastern country left on this planet. If a Singaporean was giving a negative opinion again the China vs West will pop out.
Good point Gold.
China does seem to have this “China vs. The World” mentality.
Dickhead,
If you or your media had known the problems of democracy, why did west politicians and media try to “teach” Chinese what to do ?
Are you people idiots who love to elect idiots and believe what idiots have told you about China ?
Whahaha, because they sincerely believe that imperfect democracy is still better than its alternatives. Have you been reading what FDLR says? I know he doesn’t say things in a very nice and fully-qualified manner, but surely you must have understood that point of his?
Can you imagine how this would sound coming from a Westerner directed at the Chinese?
“Are you people idiots who allow idiots to rule over you and believe what idiots have told you about the rest of the world?”
If you can’t make a good argument that isn’t easily torn apart with two brain cells, don’t make it. It only embarrasses you and, unfortunately, other Chinese people. Stick to criticizing FDLR’s inflammatory behavior. You actually have a point there. The rest of the things you try to say aren’t very useful to you, because they can easily be used against you as well.
Just a friendly suggestion.
pug,
I didnt talk about slum-dwellers in west, I was talking about slum dwellers in poor and developing countries.
FDLR is one of those idiots who have no idea what is going on in their own countries but need pointing the fingers at others to have orgasm. I think it is fun to wake him up right before the high point.
FDLR, his second paragraph is precisely why I think he’s first and foremost just objecting to your attitude here, as opposed to what you accused him of (nationalistic, blaming the west, etc.). He took offense to your comments and decided he’d try to humble you by pointing out what’s “wrong” in your own country, etc. etc. Pretty typcial defense mechanism.
Ok people, stop being so self centered and selfish, thinking just about yourselves. Why don’t we all take a moment and try to humanize one of the victims of this terrible tragedy. RIP Zheng Lin
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/07/content_8385690.htm
OMG!! So horrifying. That guy needs to be sent into maximum security prison and ass rape every single day for causing this mess. Looks like he actually deliberately running over these people.
And i agree that the police could have handled it with a little bit more tac. Should have used a black cloth to cover all the body and clear the scene to clean up the area rather than carrying body parts and dump it at the back of a truck…. its not WW2….
Not sure what some of you expect, someone has to clean up the mess and I’m certain none of you would do it. Most of you are soft and incapable of such deeds. I worked with people in the Sichuan Earthquake and we did what we had to do – I wonder how many of you know that bodies were front end loaded into pits on mass and burned to stop disease? Feel lucky you have men such as these Police to do this work you cowards.
I absolutely agree. The way the dead were thrown onto the back of a dirty pick up truck like dead animals really disgusted me. I was in complete shock. Is this common in China? Geez, I hope I never get injured in an accident in China. Any chance of survival will be gone if this happens. Absolutely barbaric.
Perhaps if China had a stronger justice system which penalise drink drivers, had a stronger culture and awareness against drink driving, less corruption within the police so drink drivers know they won’t get away with drink driving, then this whole incident would not have occured at all. What a shame.
truly sad, and the officers very wrong with the bodies.
sad!!
It seems many participants here think China is so bad. Then which country do you think is good?
I have been in US for many years. I hv also lived in some Europe countries and south east asia. I can tell the police in US should look better in the media espeically in the American movie. But in real US, the police or people can be described as cruel and very lazy. They will not do any first aid to any people because they are not responsible to that even the injured is going to die. They will only wait the ambulance coming in 30 minutes.
Note: Most chinese do not believe in a religion because we have Confucius in our mind. We feel sad because of these images also because of Confucius.
I believe, in this case, there are really too many dead body. To move them away, the only way is to seek any kind of vehicle to move them away. Why?
Just consider: What do u think if a crowd standing around you when you r sick or died?
did anything happen to the bastard that drove the car? A story from today’s, 7/24 Shanghaidaily shows what should happen! ”
A MAN who killed four people and seriously injured another while driving drunk in Chengdu, Sichuan Province, was sentenced to death yesterday for endangering public safety.
Chengdu Intermediate People’s Court announced the sentence yesterday, saying Sun Weiming was drunk on December 14 when he was speeding and smashed into four cars in the opposite lane, Shanghai Morning Post reported today. Sun fled the accident scene afterwards.
Sun had driven without a license since May 2008 and had several traffic violation offenses, the court said.
Police said Sun was going 134 to 138km/h before the collision in a 60km/h zone, the report said.
A judge in the case said Sun completely ignored the safety of others.
Sun said he would appeal the sentence, according to the report.”
A horrible accident no doubt, but I don’t think the actions of the police deserve this kind of anger. I agree they were acting in a disrespectful way, what with tossing the bodies uncovered into the truck. A body bag or ambulance would have made all the difference.
But in the end, the dead are the dead. The officers should probably be reprimanded in some way.
In regards to the drunk driver, I don’t think he should get the death penalty, but he should definitely spend a long, long time behind bars.
One Chinese person wrote:
“China’s education has never had anything related to respecting life, and the majority of people also do not have a religion. Everything is judged in terms of money, and for something like this to happen is not so strange either, because to those police officers, they think this is normal.
People who lack reverence for life is very frightening, because in certain situations they can very easily become the 1937 Japanese army in Nanjing…”
SPOT ON.
is the baby ok?
rest in peace …is the baby ok??? i really hope so