08/10/07 UPDATE: See below.
Two days ago, a Shanghai radio station, AM990, broadcast a program where the host said that Shanghai people speaking the Shanghai dialect (Shanghainese) in public was a bad habit and that Shanghai people use speaking Shanghainese to show that they are superior to other Chinese/people.
This angered a lot of Shanghainese people.
Maybe Shanghainese have already gotten used to various offences by people from the rest of China. However, this time, it came from one of their very own radio stations. See how some Shanghainese handled it:
From KDS, “Radio AM990 openly anti-Shanghai, everyone sign this boycott of the station!!!“:
AM990 openly denounced Shanghainese, everyone come sign this boycott against this radio station!!!
Everyone, conscientiously reject this radio station, conscientiously refuse to listen to any program from this station.
Rubbish 990
They actually said Shanghai people speaking Shanghainese is a bad habit?
990AM News said it is a bad habit for Shanghainese to speak Shanghai dialect and Shanghainese reflect superiority through doing such…What’s wrong with speaking our own language? How can that be a bad habit? Resistance!!!
Haven’t listened to radio for a long time…What’s going on?
Anyhow, radio is fucking useless. With television stations, it is totally redundant…everyone, let us boycott!!!
That’s what “wai di ren” like to do. Merely a “nong gang shaa” [Shanghainese for "what did you say?"] can result in an argument. Haha.
What use is a boycott? Immediately write a letter in protest.
I will say one thing: The greatest bad habit of humanity was his mother giving birth to him.
He was birthed by a dog.
Brain damaged 990, there are heaps of dialects in the world, why we should speak a standard.
According to their logic, Chinese speaking Chinese is also a way to reflect superiority……..This is simply anti-people.
I’ve called them already. The receptionist said that the broadcast was a broadcast script from a “wai di” [non-Shanghainese] audience member. Regarding the “bad habit,” this receptionist also felt a little awkward.
How can this happen? Which SOB said this?
Fuck! How come???
Only “wai di ren” listen to 990AM.
Shanghainese theoretically only listen to FMxxx.7
Called them. The person in charge is Shanghainese. I have told him that this has hurt the feelings of Shanghainese people.
What do they mean we intentionally speak Shanghainese? How do they know if I am intentionally or not intentionally [speaking Shanghainese to show superiority]? I am Shanghainese, am I supposed to speak Cantonese?
That person in charge’s attitude is not bad. Everyone be polite.
Reason with him. Don’t yell at him.
990 changed its name to Shanghai “wai di ren” Radio Station
Which host was it?? Tell us!
Must be scolded.
Were they reading this news?
Experts on civilized city residents welcoming World Expo: Correct undesirable habits, speak Putonghua [Mandarin].http://sh.eastday.com/qtmt/20080922/u1a479025.html
As a matter of fact, many old ladies now argue with “wai di ren” in Mandarin, instead of Shanghai dialect. Shanghai has already become a city of Mandarin…boring.
Abroad, Shanghainese is recognized as the third language of China. The United States even has specialized training programs, yet our country wants this language to vanish!!!
If this continues even Shanghainese will no longer be able to speak Shanghainese. Look at today’s 90s generation kids, how many of them can speak Shanghainese well?
Be tolerant, allow others to have different opinions. Do not blacklist or boycott the moment there is a different opinion, which is truly a bad habit. Of course we still have the freedom to complain and express our views.
We have the right to request an apology.
Always too many fools.
They must apologize for this.
Guess they drank Sanlu before.
In the future, if you want to hear Shanghainese, you will have to go abroad. Maybe Korea will apply for Shanghainese to be a Korean tradition/heritage.
Son of a motherfucking asshole.
Ask him to say sorry!!!
If you have time to organize a boycott on the internet, it would be better to encourage everyone to make a complaint call, asking the broadcaster to apologize.
Bad habit?
Bullshit.
I bet the broadcaster is a “wai-di-ren.” Fuck, “wai di ren” are like locust, all over the place!
I almost forgot. When in the south [of China], using the metro/subway, they even announce stops in Cantonese. Why should Shanghainese speak Putonghua [Mandarin]?
Shanghai should promote Putonghua and Shanghainese, by adding Shanghainese to metro/subway public transportation stop announcements.
Correct, the airports in some places’ use local dialects to announce airplane departure and arrival information.
Hongqiao Airport and Pudong Airport should add Shanghainese!!!
Is it not an advantage when Hong Kong people speak Cantonese? What about Americans speaking English? But Shanghai people cannot speak [their language]? It is my mouth, I will speak whatever I want!
Go to Guangzhou and Chengdu and look, they announce the stops first in the local dialect and Putonghua second~
I suggest Shanghai’s public transportation busses and metro/subways announce stops in Shanghainese first, Putonghua second~
Is 990AM now contracted by “wai di ren?”
When Guangdong’s television and radio stations interview Guangdong people, they always used Cantonese!!! Is it only because they are close to Hong Kong!!!
I don’t speak Shanghainese…
I only speak Wu Chinese.
What is this nonsense? What’s wrong with local people speaking the local dialect?! His dad should have cum on the wall.
Fuck! Anything is possible in this freaky country. Even speaking a dialect becomes a crime. The Community Party, go to hell!!!
Shanghai people speak Shanghainese, this is an unalterable truth. If the boycott is real, I only have one thing to say: fuck your motherfucking hell.
Human fresh search this broadcaster’s information!
Only when the Shanghai and Jiangsu cultural area becomes independent can these problems be solved. In terms of culture, China was never a single country.
Anti-Putonghua [Mandarin]
To those “wai di ren” who live in Shanghai and still bullshit, piss off!!!
Who the fuck on earth said this piece of shit?
Never listen to the radio.
Native culture is the root of a person! Even as a “wai di ren” I support the “lou zhu.”
Shanghai people not speaking Shanghainese is the same as Chinese people not speaking Chinese.
What can we do? Nowadays, there are no Shanghai people in the central government. Even our farts have no sound.
Local dialects must be protected.
Holding the World Expo was originally a happy affair, but now everyone is indignant and discontent.
Japan held the World Expo but do they not still have different dialects?
Stop fighting! In the past, everyone at 990AM ate free Sanlu. I guess they ate too much, did not think that free stuff could make them this way. Everyone forgive 990AM, in consideration of them having eaten Sanlu!!!
We should only speak one single language globally to reflect our kindness. Definitely not Mandarin!
Language is a way of communication. How can you force others to communicate with you? If you want to communicate with them, learn their language!
The post went on like this. 276 replies in four hours since the thread was first published.
08/10/07 UPDATE: AM990 apologizes, KDS once again shoots up shows up past Tianya, becomes the internet’s number one BBS forum. – Fauna
See more Shanghai vs. the rest of China comments:
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is it just me or are Shanghai people generally obnoxious? It’s one thing to speak your own dialect at home and among friends and it’s another to speak to outsiders knowning they don’t understand it…
I don’t know whether the comment was directed at Shanghainese people who spoke in their dialect to outsiders, which is a bit obnoxious, but complaining because they speak it among themselves? There’s nothing wrong with that, do we yell at Hong Kong people for speaking Cantonese?
@SniperWZ – It’s not just you. Ask your average, non-Shanghainese, Chinese which city produces the most obnoxiously arrogant people and you will get “Shanghai” 9 times out of 10. My wife’s dialect (Hangzhou hua) has some choice, rude, terms for describing them.
@SniperWZ
I even find the term Shanghainese arrogant and obnoxious. They are up there on the arrogance-meter with people from Hong Kong (Hong-Kong-nese)
@Gaoshan, is Hangzhou hua similar to Shanghai hua? For some reason I thought it is, but then again, cities close to Shanghai such as Nanjing have a completely different dialect (which is close to Mandarin).
I think Hong Kong people have a long held superiority complex (similar to Taiwan ren)…
@SniperWZ – Yep, it is similar (but not the same). As is Ningbo dialect (which is very close to Shanghai dialect I THINK… don’t hold me to it… it’s my mother-in-law’s dialect so I only know second hand) and a few others I am sure.
In China’s history, a significant percentage of people living in Shanghai descended from families who were originally residents of Ningbo.
Hangzhou, on the other hand, has a dialect that is more distinctly regional and vastly different than Ningbo and Shanghai’s.
True Chinese Harmony:)
Of course HK people feel superior. Have you seen the difference in behaviour once you cross over at Lo Wu?? It’s like stepping through a time portal. It’s natural for people who live in a different country (regardless of who the current owners are or the shape of their eyes) to feel like a distinct society.
The difference is that SHanghai is not a country. Does not have it’s own system, money, or ideology.
Upon hearing a criticism of ‘Chinese’, I’ve been told by more than one person here, “I’m not Chinese, I’m Shanghainese!”. I am always astounded.
Also, they use Shanghainese as a 2nd/3rd language to communicate RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU to cheat/out-manouver in business negotiations. THAT is the thing that the ‘WaiDi Ren’ are angry about. The feeling that the joke is on them constantly.
@Blue star
Cantonese is a different language – not a dialect. HK people don’t grow up speaking Mandarin (unless their family is from an area of mainland, etc). Your comparison isn’t valid. People in Shanghai are taught standard mandarin in school and can almost all (if educated in the least) speak it, when they want to. The obnoxious action isn’t to speak Shanghaihua with your Shanghainese compatriots, but when speaking to people clearly not from Shanghai with some snide attitude…I’ve seen this happen in person. I’ve also seen some people from certain AREAS of Shanghai talk in their local area dialect to other Shanghai people, with the same intention. This is obnoxious. There is even elitism within the “elitist” Shanghai community..it’s hilarious in a way. Not to say all Shanghai people are like this, I know some who are deep and authentic in many ways, but it certainly does happen.
That being said, if someone is using a different dialect to negotiate or to get some kind of benefit, big deal – learn the language or suck it up, whether it’s a different dialect or different language people try to bridge relationships with communication or commonality to increase their benefit in negotiation all the time in every country.
Cantonese is not a language, its a dialect. You guys use mandarin as words when you write them down, how can it be a language?
Twenty years ago, famous Yugoslav painter, Mića Popović, of Serbian origins, talked to his colleagues of Croatian origin (Serbia and Croatia once was in country called Yugoslavia, for those who didn’t know. Also Serbian can Croatian languages are much more similar than Shanghainese and Mandarin).
So, he said to him: My dear Croatian colleagues. Let’s talk about difference between Serbs and Croats. What kind of people are Serbs?
He talked about half of hour how Serbs are bad, uncultured, uneducated, too much fond of their war skills, history and epic poetry. That Serbs are descendant from goat keepers, etc,etc…
Croatian painters said: Yes, you are right, that’s true, good talking…
After Mića finished, he light his pipe and said:
Now, let’s talk about Croats. Croats are least of all European people. They talk about their European culture, all of their culture are implemented by force by Austria…
In that moment, Croatians started to shout: You dirt Serb, you are lying, that’s not true, you offending us…
Mića took a smoke from his pipe: That’s main difference between us, my dear colleagues. Serbs can talk half an hour about how bad they are, but Croats cannot listen one second what’s other people think about them.
When I was in London, every one talked with me on pure English ‘cose I was a stranger. Between them they talked on cockney. It is rude to talk with people on language they don’t understand.
I’d have much more sympathy for them if it wasn’t for the fact there seems to be a real insularity about the culture.
Since when is superiority part of HK culture? Maybe ten years ago when the Chinese were all still hicks scratching their arses marvelling at traffic lights. Not now, surely – more resentment and dislike, I’d imagine.
Having lived and grown up in Canada, but speaking an aboriginal language at home, I would have to agree with the Shanghainese being upset.
Cultural identity and language are tied hand in hand. I saw first hand many people lose their culture due to being forced to only speak English.
Shanghaihua has been under attack due to Shanghai being the commercial hub. It only makes sense that business should be done in Mandarin, however it’s a bit unfair that Shanghainese aren’t allowed to have announcements on buses or metro in their native tongue, considering that they are the majority. The expression, “When in Rome, do as the Romans.” seems to have been lost, with the Shanghai people needing to convert for the outsiders.
I hope that more is done to preserve their identity, language and culture.
In Singapore, we have some Singaporeans speaking Singlish, a mix of English, Chinese and Malay.. not pure English too :)
Uh… okay, two points to address…
First the obvious. Nanjinghua is far closer to Shanghainese than Mandarin… listening to both you should be able to understand completely though with about the same difficulty as Standard Putonghua to say, Sichuan Putonghua. I mean, think, Nanjinghua and Shanghaihua are the same language, Wu; wheras Mandarin belongs to an entirely different modern Chinese language family. Wu is the second most spoken language in China with about 100 million people speaking it right in the economic heartland of China. And I have to seriously take issue with many of the stereotypes and claims of Shanghainese as these haughty, arrogant, insular… claims that can be equally true of Hong Kong people, or really any people just entirely dependent on the social situations in which you encounter them.
And really, dialects are always used as a code to outwit “waidiren” regardless of where you are in the country (or any country for that matter). Myself and many others here in China use French to communicate with other Canadians and Europeans things that we don’t want Chinese people to know…). That’s why smart business practice in China makes use of local translators/assistants— local dialects. It’s also why I’m studying Shanghainese right now and planning on tackling Cantonese (ironically more likely when I return to Vancouver than Hong Kong).
Really, the overuse of “Shanghaihua” to describe Shanghai’s dialect of the Wu language is as one poster on the BBS was hinting at, a bit of a way of divide and conquering Wu into regional “dialects”. Sure a Nanjing person listening in on a conversation in Shanghainese would be like me trying to follow Cockney English. But follow I can, since it’s all English in the end. Don’t denigrate, learn and adapt.
I somewhat agree with the sentiment in the forum thread. Going around, I find that the most problems I have originate with non-Shanghainese (aka the 外地人). Over my years in Shanghai I’ve picked up Shanghainese and find that using it in daily life generally makes people more inclined to help me (except the 外地人- I’ll switch back to Mandarin, but…).
But I guess it’s easier to fall into a line of thinking like mine if you’ve had the right circumstances (for me it was spending 3 months out of every year since birth here as well as the whole of the last 4 years and having Shanghainese parents).
what the radio station said is largely true. the shanghainese in my office treat the non-shanghainese in the office as outcasts. i resent it so much i try to hire non-shanghainese – they tend to work harder anyway
jay, u r wrong. it seems dat u r in a higher position in the working setting and pick up some one to work for u. but do u really appreciate the meaning of OOOOOOOutcast? definitely not!!
@Dylan, wrong, Nanjing hua is obviously not a Wu language, but classified as a version of Mandarin, sometimes commonly called Southern Mandarin (Jiang hua). I lived in the city when I was a kid and dated a girl from Nanjing in HS so I would know.
Nanjing Mandarin was the official court language during the Ming Empire and early Qing Empire, until Beijing Mandarin (what is now known as putonghua) replaced it. The Yongle Emperor shifted the Ming capital from Nanjing to Beijing and also shifted a large population base from Nanjing to the new capital. During the early Qing, Nanjing Mandarin was thought to have gradually transformed to today’s Beijing Mandarin after influences from the Manchu language.
Northern Jiangsu, Nanjing, Zhengjiang area speak the Southern Mandarin dialects.
I’d just like to pipe up and say that there is much debate among linguists whether the different Chinese dialects should be treated as completely different languages.
Using multiple languages is not a crime but I can understand how it can be done in a snide way. If you are doing business, unless you cannot understand the person (or people) you are dealing with (which in case, get a translator), it’s incredibly rude to make that person wade through your chosen language in order to swindle him/her. Mandarin is lingua franca in China for a reason.
This is completely different from saying that public announcements should be in Shanghainese b/c negotiating business is not a matter of retaining culture.
Forget about Shanghai dialect. What about English? I get so tired of being addressed in English by young Shanghainese. It’s one thing if someone initiates a conversation with me in English. I’m totally into speaking English, but I can’t stand it when I address someone in fluent Chinese and I get a sneering reply in English. It’s mostly young people I might add. Waiters and waitresses
I’ve only recently moved to Shanghai so occassionaly I will point out how rude it is. A few of my mates who have been in Shanghai for a year or so, and whose Chinese is very fluent, have zero patience for it.
SniperWZ， I stand corrected. My confusion stemmed from comparatively scant experience in Nanjing in the company of people who spoke Wu and walking on the street today in Nanjing I heard Wu spoken, leading to my brain fart above. But reading your words, I shamefully remember my Chinese linguistics classes coming back… Indeed, northern Wu (of Wuxi and Suzhou) is only yet another minority language in Nanjing, where indeed Zhongyuan Mandarin is the flavor of the city.
Actually, since I was already in wikipedia checking my facts, I might as well add that I was also wrong on the number of Wu speakers, not 100 million +, only 77 million. That said… still is it one of the most widely spoken languages in the world.
I again disagree with the negotiating business comment… in a cynical way, using culture to create cultural monopolies over wealth is a rather fantastic way to protect a culture. At the same time, any business people who want to sidebar into another language with a prospective buyer across from them are going to find it backfiring on themselves more often then next.
“i resent it so much i try to hire non-shanghainese – they tend to work harder anyway”
If you insist on talking and thinking about the 本地人 in your office like that then that’s what you’ll get- a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don’t mean that you should let them have a superiority complex about it, but it wouldn’t hurt if you show that you intend for everyone to be treated equally and that to do otherwise will result in punishment.
@ Rick in China
“Cantonese is a different language – not a dialect. HK people don’t grow up speaking Mandarin (unless their family is from an area of mainland, etc). Your comparison isn’t valid. People in Shanghai are taught standard mandarin in school and can almost all (if educated in the least) speak it, when they want to.”
Shanghainese/Suzhounese/Hangzhounese are all descendants of the Wu Kingdom and also had their own language and grammar. The same for the Sichuan regional languages, etc. Mandarin is simply China’s version of Latin or Germanic.
Not just that, Shanghainese is a part of the cultural legacy of the Kingdom of Wuyue during the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, after the fall of the Tang. More specifically, Shanghainese is a variant of the Suzhou dialect of the Taihu Wu Chinese language (aka Northern Wu). It was also the last kingdom left standing before the Song dynasty annexed it (without military force).
What the fuck?
Mandarin is one of the furthest removed branches of Chinese dialect. Virtually all other dialects are closer to Middle Chinese. Mandarin only came to prominence because the Manchus demanded the entire country’s bureaucracy to speak the same dialect. They picked Mandarin because it was the one spoken locally from where they governed.
@Buhaoyise
Lighten up dude. If I address someone in Chinese and they reply in English it’s clear they just want to practice some of their language skill, a rare opportunity for them perhaps – why you have to get your panties in a bunch…something to prove?
Sometimes I flip the script on them out of amusement, they start speaking to me in English, I reply in Chinese, they reply in English, I reply in Chinese, etc..just to see who ‘breaks’ first. Either way, it’s nothin to get upset over, and it’s ridiculous that you and your “fluent friends” take offense to something so trivial.
@nanheyangrouchuan
You fail to address the fact that the standard language of China, and what is taught in school, is Mandarin. HK just recently began teaching mandarin en-mass after transition back to the PRC. Your point, while correct, is not really addressing the issue at hand which is using language as a means of appearing “superior” to someone else.
It should be noted that KDS is a rabidly pro-Shanghainese BBS, where posters use Shanghainese frequently in posts about pretty much any topic. So you’re taking an inflammatory topic, feeding it to a group of extremely vocal Shanghainese, and no wonder these are the reactions you get.
That said, I’ll pretty much nth everything said above about the Shanghainese.
They r right!
I´m living now in a area of Italy(near to germany,a german minority) where dialect is even used at school,from teachers!
People here can neither speak properly italian nor german.
I’ve always thought that Shanghainese was an awesome sounding language on par with French etc, although this may only be from the few (attractive women) I’ve heard it from- Mandarin gets redundant so it would be nice to keep any diversity that exists
@Buhaoyisi
On topic of Chinese responding in English to anything that you say, you definitly have to get used to it and it becomes a power struggle, aka they refuse to respond in Mandarin, so you keep beating them with your experience (and the fact you have a constant source of Chinese speakers around you). It is crazy that there are Chinese in the USA now who have stopped using Mandarin, they can’t respond in Mandarin because they don’t speak it.
You don’t have to worry about language battles if you find someone who has no interest or ability in learning English and feed off of them, or find some way to compromise on exchange is even better -> it is funny that this is the opposite of the French who generally will respond to you in French rather than English most of the time.
this is so fucking hilarious oh my god…. shanghainese ppl really know how to exagerate things and defend their little boosted ego. how miserable. and how sad.
Nice that everyone is constantly yelling at the Shanghainese to speak Mandarin, but the same efforts aren’t used against dialects in other nearby cities.
I hear at least as much Hangzhou hua in HZ as I do Shanghainese here, but there is not anti-Hangzhou propaganda everywhere. Beijing people are not scolded for using their local slang which no one outside of Hebei or Tianjian understands.
In the place where I am currently living (I’ll move soon), my dear neighbors are often yelling at each other in Wenzhou and other Zhejiang dialects.
Despite understanding a lot of Shanghainese, I understand the frustration of dealing with Shanghainese who refuse to speak Mandarin just because they don’t feel like it.
Here’s a fun trick if you really want to irritate such a person: if you’re with a Chinese friend, say in Mandarin that the Shanghai-supremacist is “is probably from a rural village in Shanghai, and is uneducated, so he/she can’t speak Mandarin”. Please refrain from using this with older people (who really weren’t taught Mandarin properly) and authorities.
You do have a valid point there.
Why can’t China be a bilingual or multilingual society? A monolingual society is just boring- look at American culture. People speak english, they live an idyllic life, but life is boring.
But the thing is that the trend is that people ONLY speak mandarin- that’s the problem, the problem is not speaking mandarin itself, but the constant reinforcement of monolingual education in mandarin.
Hi Jake,
Haha, I think that is a fun and reasonable advice.
i wasn’t expect such an interesting discussion here. but, well, seems quite a few people do enjoy it, which is good. LOL
@Jake
RE: “In the place where I am currently living (I’ll move soon), my dear neighbors are often yelling at each other in Wenzhou and other Zhejiang dialects.”
The difference there is that they are yelling _at eachother_, nobody is arguing anything about shanghai people speaking shanghaiese to eachother, but to when some speak it to people who are obviously not local with a bit of an arrogant tone ie “I’m from Shanghai *meh*” attitude. I’m not saying that this is abundantly common, I don’t live in Shanghai and only travel there on weekends – personally I don’t notice it all that often, but that’s what the discussion is about.
I do use the “peasant from anhui” remark when people in Shanghai have over-the-top attitude, though, and it works wonders to piss them off beyond all extent.
@ Rick in China
“You fail to address the fact that the standard language of China, and what is taught in school, is Mandarin. ”
It is the “language of empire” as latin was even when the Vatican ran much of Europe. But people’s real, native language is what they learn from their parents and what is spoken everyday on the street.
china government ought to balance the level of development of china’s provinces———————————a Beijiing people’s suggestion.
I’m from shanghai originally, and have being speaking Shanghaihua at home for 20 some years now. Its just the way that i was raised, not to forget shanghaihua. Don’t forget the place that raised, nurtured me, and my roots. my 2 cents in this is that every place has a little of their own culture is quite some feat that the government to pull trying to eradicate the Wu Chinese dialect. Hawaii only have 15% or less of population that speaks Hawaiian, now you can see how a kingdom that established well before a nation could be assimilated and in the end all traces of that kingdom dissolves over time.
i think all the comments speaks up for everything :)
The issue is not the language spoken, but the attitude, a chip on the shoulder, a need to impress, a need to distinct oneself.
I remember in Hong Kong when it was a colony of the Brits, many upper class kids used to speak Chinese scattered with many English words to impress and set apart oneself from the common folks. I am not surprised to hear that Shanghainese, being residents of the riches city in China, would be prone to show off their affiliation in wealth and first rate living standard. When people become “nouveau riche”, the newly rich., there is a tendency to show off. It takes genuine self-appreciation and inner security to be humble. (For example, using Nouveau riche instead of newly rich, a French word is showing off and in bad form in writing).
BTW, the reason why French will only speak French to foreigners is because they have been taught, influenced by the system that Frenchmen should be very serious about preservation of their language, that French is the language of the refine. In fact, France forbids English words with a French equivalent to be used, the insertion of English worlds would be considered as language pollution.
“BTW, the reason why French will only speak French to foreigners is because they have been taught”
Naah, I don’t agree with that. The real reason is simply that French people are not very comfortable with English language :) That’s all.
“France forbids English words with a French equivalent to be used, the insertion of English worlds would be considered as language pollution.”
That’s right for formal written French, like published paper etc… But informally, when talking with or writing to friends for instance, they use more English words you can think, especially with the young generation, they perceive this as to-be-in.
that just means shanghainese people are love the place where they live,and want to keep the specific local culture. y some people are always against shanghainese. i also saw a lot of dialect programs on other provinces tv station
@Vanessa
There is a big difference between loving where you are from and inciting hatred against anyone who is NOT. It’s elitist and very ignorant. If you believe Shanghai would be where it is today without being financed by a huge migrant-worker class population in the countryside creating cheap goods for companies to import/export through China’s major port cities you’re fuckin dreaming. That’s also just *one* of the many considerations.
to guys who complain about shanghainese. if you want to understand, learn the bloody language. otherwise you can stay ignorant. the shanghainese are just using the most natural form of communication.
guess what if i am in southern france, i have to learn to speak provencal. in switzerland i have to speak swiss german, though i learn hoch deutsch.
ps. shanghainese/wu is a language not a dialect.
I agree with most non-Shanghai people that the Shanghai natives are really an arrogant slutty people. They are really a disgusting lot, agressive, rude, course and very uncivilised primitive lot of coastal fisherman tribes. These backward lot of coastal tribes getting rich on the advantages of their geographical position is really annoying. They are unable to related positively to anyone, local or foreign even though their wealth comes from the influx of foreigners and locals fromt he hinterland. They are lazy and spoilt and their women are ALL prostitutes. Every corner of Shanghai is filled with brothels and smut shops of all kinds offering all sorts of sexual services at all kinds of prices. They would sell their mothers if the price was right.
Shanghainese sucks – its an ugly language, disgusting glutten sounds and I feel sick to the stomach when I listen to them talk. I often shout at them to speak a civilised language – Putonghua.
@Fauna – Thanks for taking the time to translate. What a great website. I’m very interested in understanding more about China, but resources like this are few and far between.
@
I would be happy if I never heard ‘wai di ren” again. Very xenophobic.
Just to clarify, I was making two separate points in my above post, not asking Fauna to use the expression less.
It seems to me that every time a news story appears, the first comments, even before such a thing could be known, are always to blame “wai di ren”. You’d think that the only reason people travel inside China is to commit crimes away from home.
I am shanghainese, but I’ve always spoken mandarin growing up. My parents and teachers always change to putonghua (I have perfect Mandarin – no one knows what part of China I am from) when they talked to me lol. Almost all of my relatives speaks the dialect except me but I don’t mind at all (I still understand what they are saying). Sometimes, I fake a weird chinese accent just to see people’s reaction, let’s just say prejudice against rural people in Shanghai is quite blatant but very amusing.
@ Kat ^^
Thanks for letting us know how it is. You represent the perfect example of the younger generation of so called Shanghainese youth that everyone is lamenting about these days. It’s just shameful. By forgetting and not even caring to learn Shanghainese, they are also throwing their culture and history away. Hundreds and thousands of years of history becoming just that, history. This in a way is also a type of genocide and the youth are too stupid to know it. Shame on you for not caring about your mother tongue. You and people like you are the destroyers of your heritage. Remember that, because once it’s gone, it will be gone forever. And by then being Shanghainese will be nothing special, but common and boring.
I agree with Sammy.
Even though I’m part of the so-called ‘new generation’ of shanghainese, but I was born and raised in the US, but somehow, despite all the constant outside influence, I can still speak the Wu Chinese language. When I see monolingual Mandarin-speaking Shanghainese, it just pisses me off. Fucking disgrace to all shanghainese people. they’re throwing thousands of years of history down the drain. They don’t even know about the contributions of the Wuyue kingdom, and i’m proud of being Wuyue Chinese as well as being shanghainese.
Shanghainese aren’t racist or intolerant. We’re just too proud (with emphasis on proud) of speaking Wu Chinese and being part of the Wuyue Chinese culture. And Wu Chinese is the true intellectual’s language with classical chinese words- mandarin is a mongol and turkic influenced language. And Mandarin took a lot of Wu Chinese words and expressions too, because most writers in Mandarin during early 20th century were native Wu speakers, that so many Wu Chinese speakers think that their language is part Mandarin. Shanghainese is basically Suzhou dialect with some marginal influence from Ningbonese and English.
But even so, I think Shanghainese think that they’re superior to their own fellow Wuyue Wu-speaking Chinese (Ningbonese, Hangzhounese) because of this whitewashed colonial mentality. Most native shanghainese came from somewhere else (usually northern Zhejiang or southern Jiangsu, so no one can be truly 100% native shanghainese.)
I’d love to teach shanghainese to the future generations, but the thing is, i’m afraid that i’m no longer fluent in the language.
hearing at least a few words of shanghainese would cure my homesickness to an extent.
Wuyue region, who gives a hoot man, your language isn’t even a tenth as prestigious as Cantonese or Hokkien outside of China and is despised within to boot. You have no movies or any music of any interest in your language and no one can talk at a volume less than 300 decibels.
Whats wrong with we speak our language? You can speak whatever your dialect is too, does our shagginess trying to say ” its a bad habit to speak your wai di dialect, you are just trying to show you are prior to people from other cities? We never said that, its people who look down upon themselves panic all the time that other people don’t like them, grow up, our shagginess people have proud in our heart to be who we are, so just be proud of who you are and if you can’t. at least stop whining !
I live in Canada & I heard from a classmate in my university that came from Heilongjiang that Shanghainese people are the most arrogant in all of China and call everyone else “wai di ren” (outsider) and consider them all inferior & backwards. That’s a horrible attitude, they are all Chinese why discriminate against one another? Maybe he’s right when he said all Southern Chinese are less intelligent.
Umm…. ok. If I insist on speaking Pig Latin with my nose in the air and laugh as other people scratch their heads in confusion, is that not ignorant, childish and arrogant? It may be my right to speak what I want, but it isn’t polite to snub others by speaking a language I KNOW others don’t understand; especially when it’s obvious that I can communicate perfectly well with a language we share in common. The broadcaster didn’t appear to say that speaking Shanghainese was wrong. He said that it was wrong to be rude to other people.
Shanghainese people have every right to speak whatever language they want at home or in the company of friends. There is nothing rude about that. But I’ve witnessed first-hand how Shanghainese intentionally speak Shanghainese to outsiders in order to “gain the upper hand” in arguments. I’ve seen those outsiders smile and politely ask the Shanghainese to communicate in Mandarin to no avail. If that isn’t simply rude and arrogant, I don’t know what is.
To all those Shanghainese I say: keep your language and culture close to your heart. Treasure it all you want. But don’t use it as a tool to harbor ignorance and arrogance. I think that was all that announcer was trying to communicate.
I think English is an international language. I love the language and think it is quite useful and beautiful. I think that some of the brightest and most educated people in today’s world speak English. That being said, I don’t snub my nose at the local store clerk and insist on speaking a language she doesn’t understand. That would be rude and ignorant of me. I speak her language because I realize that communication is a two-way street. Likewise, I drive my car on the appropriate side of the road instead of driving down the center and expecting others to swerve. This is all about respect for others, which some people apparently have never learned.
It wouldn’t matter so much if Shanghainese actually sounded like a decent language. It is positively disgusting on the ears the volume and the whole intonation with which it is spoken. People just shout at each other in that annoying pig talk all damn day….never once have I heard it been spoken in a manner which sounded appealing in the slightest…
1) Shanghainese is an obnoxious language
2) Shanghainese are the Jews of China
3) Shanghainese are just pure hypocrites. They think they are better than everyone and also thinks they are the top Chinese culture. Why are “you people” so cheap and enjoys freeloading off others? Was it becasue of the invasion by Japan back in WWII that turned Shanghai into a whore town because they are physically weak or mentally trying to suck up?
Just because of their disgusting ways, I now consider Fujianese to be a better culture then Shanghainese.