Acts of Kindness and Good People, Chinese Netizen Reactions

One runner helps another disabled without hands drink water in a marathon.

One runner helps another disabled without hands drink water in a marathon.

From Sina Weibo:

@英国报姐: Some things that will make people feel the world is a beautiful place.

This man spend his lunch time every day reading for an illiterate coworker.
This man spend his lunch time every day reading for an illiterate coworker.
This man named Mike Downer found $5000 in savings in a discarded refrigerator. He found the refrigerator's owner, and returned the money.
This man named Mike Downer found $5000 in savings in a discarded refrigerator. He found the refrigerator’s owner, and returned the money.
After exiting the subway every day, this girl in Egypt will find the time to teach the homeless children at the exit how to read and write.
After exiting the subway every day, this girl in Egypt will find the time to teach the homeless children at the exit how to read and write.
This police officer often buys shoes for homeless people to wear.
This police officer often buys shoes for homeless people to wear.
This beggar discovered a ring in his panhandling bowl, that a kindhearted person probably lost while giving him money. After a lot of effort, he finally found the person who lost it, and returned the ring to her.
This beggar discovered a ring in his panhandling bowl, that a kindhearted person probably lost while giving him money. After a lot of effort, he finally found the person who lost it, and returned the ring to her.
An Ohio athlete helped an injured competitor finish the remainder of the race.
An Ohio athlete helped an injured competitor finish the remainder of the race.
This motorcyclist stopped to help an old granny cross the road.
This motorcyclist stopped to help an old granny cross the road.
This mailman often leaves positive, warm notes in other people's mailboxes.
This mailman often leaves positive, warm notes in other people’s mailboxes.
This 82-year-old retired barber goes to the park every Wednesday with a chair and his haircutting equipment to provide free haircuts. His fee is only a hug.
This 82-year-old retired barber goes to the park every Wednesday with a chair and his haircutting equipment to provide free haircuts. His fee is only a hug.
Rugby player Brian O'Driscoll went to a hospital to visit a little fan of his. The little girl was in the hospital for a kidney transplant, and has now completely recovered.
Rugby player Brian O’Driscoll went to a hospital to visit a little fan of his. The little girl was in the hospital for a kidney transplant, and has now completely recovered.
This firefighter risked his life to rescue this woman's cat from a fire.
This firefighter risked his life to rescue this woman’s cat from a fire.
This soldier discovered four recently born little bunnies, on their last breath, took them home, carefully cared for them, until they regained their health.
This soldier discovered four recently born little bunnies, on their last breath, took them home, carefully cared for them, until they regained their health.
This man was running to catch the train, but upon seeing this faltering granny, he stopped, and helped carry her bags.
This man was running to catch the train, but upon seeing this faltering granny, he stopped, and helped carry her bags.
Free flowers for Valentine's Day.
Free flowers for Valentine’s Day.
To help another disabled marathon runner drink water, she gave up the opportunity to place and win prize money.
To help another disabled marathon runner drink water, she gave up the opportunity to place and win prize money.
Afraid an elderly person would be tired, a kindhearted young man stuck in an elevator served as a human chair for many hours.
Afraid an elderly person would be tired, a kindhearted young man stuck in an elevator served as a human chair for many hours.
A store worker in Canada often walks a 72-year-old granny home, because she can't see and it is difficult for her to get around.
A store worker in Canada often walks a 72-year-old granny home, because she can’t see and it is difficult for her to get around.

Comments from Sina Weibo:

琥珀里的犀牛:

I will never forget that person who pulled me out from the doorway of a store during the 2008 Earthquake. Just as I was pulled out, a rock fell down…

小坦克tk:

Let me share a domestic one. When I take the public bus in Qingdao, if it is too full, you need to enter from the rear door, and then have the people around you pass the money or transit card up to the front to the fare collection box. Every time there are people willing to help you.

仙人涨小姐:

If one day we can open the comments to a microblog post and there aren’t so many “this is all in other countries”, “it isn’t so beautiful domestically in our country” type of comments, I will feel this world is very beautiful… Actually, you only lack the eye for noticing the beautiful. Recently with so many stories of kind people in the cold or lost property, they too are very heartwarming! Those with narrow mentalities cannot see the beautiful. Even if the beautiful were collected and put in front of you, you would still separate their nationality.

Lapppo:

What I am most most most moved by are the people in the restroom who lend me a sanitary towel [menstrual pad, tampon] when my period suddenly comes. [笑cry][笑cry][笑cry] I really am so thankful. At that moment, I just want to fall to my knees and thank the greatness of humanity [empathy]. [笑cry][笑cry][笑cry]

请叫我章鱼哥0:

Actually our country also has many things like this. I remember once when I had just graduated from school and began working. I gave my seat to an old granny who at a red light stuffed a piece of candy in my hand. I won’t say I ate the candy, but the wrapper has been in my wallet/purse ever since, for many years now.

青袂_要减肥做人生赢家:

Really, it truly frightening how distorted the mentality/perspectives are of those who put down the Heavenly Kingdom. [拜拜]

杨楠SINGING:

Not all the beautiful must be found in these photos. Our country is also very beautiful. [呵呵] Really.

回忆专用小马甲:

Truly good.

闪避智障:

Those in the comments subconsciously putting down the Heavenly Kingdom, if you personally practice what you preach in your lives, then the Heavenly Kingdom will also become very beautiful.

鱼蓝闭关中:

I believe our Heavenly Kingdom also has many heartwarming moments.

Vonss:

One time when I took the public bus, there was a passenger who boarded but did not have change, and I immediately took out two kuai [RMB], which he took and then… nothing… the passenger nonchalantly found a place to sit, without even a word of thanks. Sometimes some people don’t know to be grateful, but my heart was still quite happy to have helped someone.

K-柒爷:

Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re gonna get. — Forrest Gump.

伪宅小洁:

I just knew the comments for this kind of microblog post would have “this is all in other countries, it would never happen in China” type comments. Motherfucking, if you’re going to worship the foreign, then worship the foreign, but don’t drag China into it or represent Chinese people. You fucking don’t have the right to represent Chinese people. China has good people and good things, positive energy [positivity, positive acts], but have you forwarded/reshared them before? Commented about them before? Upvoted/liked them before? Oh! Yes, you have commented before, but I bet your comment was: “This is probably a publicity stunt! This is probably just putting on a show!”

荒人手记_:

Am I the only one who noticed this? Why did the firefighter have to risk his life to save a cat? No matter how important that cat is to that granny, but when everyone was given life by parents, for what reason was a cat’s life placed above that of a person’s life?

躺着中枪的熊猫:

[求关注][求关注] May god protect all of these kindhearted people.

Help chinaSMACK continue sharing glimpses into Chinese internet culture and trends by becoming a patron. Thank you!
READ  Migrant Workers Children Spend Childhood Scavenging Landfill

Written by Fauna

Fauna is a mysterious young Shanghainese girl who lives in the only place a Shanghainese person would ever want to live: Shanghai. In mid-2008, she started chinaSMACK to combine her hobby of browsing Chinese internet forums with her goal of improving her English. Through her tireless translation of popular Chinese internet news and phenomenon, her English has apparently gotten dramatically better. At least, reading and writing-wise. Unfortunately, she's still not confident enough to have written this bio, about herself, by herself.

  • FinancialWar

    fake as fuck

    • ScottLoar

      Fake? All these instances are faked? Not much can get past you, eh? No, you are too smart, too street-wise, too wise to the ways of the world to get taken in by stories like these, eh? I’d guess your world is neatly peopled into two, those who know and those others (sheeple? the dumb?) who don’t.

      • FinancialWar

        gullible is not in the dictionary.

        • ScottLoar

          “Sophomoric” is in the dictionary, and you are the very definition. Go ahead, look it up.

          • mr.wiener

            Scott, don’t feed the trolls.
            Financial, first and last warning.

          • ScottLoar

            Sorry, I had thought sincere asininity was best addressed sincerely and immediately. Looking about I see few trolls but a lot of opinionated and genuinely malinformed commenters.

          • mr.wiener

            True that sir, true that.

          • Who do you think you are

            I would like to know why did you warn him. What are in his comments (in that two one-liners) against cS commenting policy? Also, where did he trolled exactly?

          • mr.wiener

            The first coment was a provocation, the second a comfirmation of this. The last was not worth mentioning. This falls under the description of disruptive behaviour ,at least my interpretation of it. If you feel I was incorrect or unfair please message the management at Cs.
            Who do I think I am?… Just the guy who cleans the toilets.

          • Edward Kay

            Sorry, I don’t get it. Its his opinion isn’t it? Though not positive.

          • Alex Dương

            I agree with wiener: it’s the second comment that shows that the first was not actually his opinion; rather, he was just trolling.

            “fake as fuck” -> “gullible is not in the dictionary” (implying that he didn’t actually think it was “fake as fuck”; he just wanted to get a rise out of people.)

          • dick

            you need to go back to English school and logical school. If there is such a thing.
            Gullible is not in the dictionary does not support fake as fuck, but evidence for trolling?

            fuck off

          • Alex Dương

            Assuming you’re serious, let’s go through this step by step. FinancialWarfare claims that these photos are “fake as fuck.” ScottLoar calls him out on it, and FinancialWarfare replies “gullible is not in the dictionary.”

            That implies that FinancialWarfare’s initial comment was not made seriously. According to him, anyone who thinks he was being serious is gullible. Well, that’s trolling; he’s posting to get a rise out of people.

          • dick

            JesusChrist Alex, are you fucking this retarded??

            “gullible is not in the dictionary” was a sarcastic statement conveying that you’re gullible to believe the stories mentioned in the article to be true, or that the caption truly convey what’s happening in the picture. not my own first comment.

          • Alex Dương

            I was wondering if you were the same person as “FinancialWar,” and it looks like you are. You were warned, you continued to refuse to comment politely, so you were banned. Not by me personally, but I agree with the decision, as it is clear that you either cannot or refuse to comment politely.

          • mr.wiener

            Many of this photos are well known so I interpreted his first coment as provocation (my interpretation) hence the warning. His third coment (now deleted) asked about my job prospects and mastobatory habits. If this had instead been a legitimate defence of his opinion I would backed down.
            Sorry if this came off as high handed.

          • Edward Kay

            Sorry, I saw only 2 comments. Might as well block him though he’ll come as another. Zombies are hard to kill.

          • mr.wiener

            I hear head shots work :)

      • jianfei

        hey hi IQ fool… China is the Wild East,,,, grow the hell up… no laws there…unless your caught… i feel sad for its citizens… they have totally forgotten the previous Dynasty!!! change of society behaviour would be most welcomed in China in this Generation………..no one likes China anymore and it does not require anything beyond a 5th grader to figure out why!

        • ScottLoar

          减肥,please try to write coherent sentences in any language that have a beginning, middle and end.

          • Probotector

            What the fuck are you doing back here you miserable cunt? The comments section here was doing much better without your arrogant self-righteous bullshit had been self-purged. Seriously, didn’t you rage quite months ago because also the comments on here are just to ‘graffiti’?

          • Alex Dương

            Relax. (And just so you know, I strongly disagree with Scott’s opinions on certain subjects.)

          • Probotector

            Are you following me?

          • Alex Dương

            You know as mods, we get notified every time someone makes a post, right?

          • Probotector

            Yeah but every time I make a comment you’re there. Not complaining, you can reply if you wish, just curious.

          • Alex Dương

            Whenever a comment is made, we get an e-mail notification. That’s all; nothing fancier than that.

          • mr.wiener

            It’s true, we don’t have lives, we find a sense of purpose sniffing at your trouser cuffs :)

          • ScottLoar

            “What the fuck are you doing back here you miserable cunt?”

            Answer: Not to make your life more reasoned or courteous if that’s how you feel.

            The balance of your post is confused but I take it you object to my comments. As I wrote before, you are free to take a hike and ignore me, skip my posts, as I have no investment in “Probotector” (perhaps you are a miserable cunt; you sure gripe like one) or anyone else here, and only know you by your comments.

            Try to learn the difference between “to” and “too”.

    • Vance

      No. These are not faked. There are many good people out there. I have seen the worst of people recently. So I am not looking through a rose colored stained glass window. I know evil, selfishness and greed are out there, but so is the goodness shown in these pics.

    • Xia

      “Those with narrow mentalities cannot see the beautiful. Even if the beautiful were collected and put in front of you, you would still separate their nationality.”

    • 42

      you don’t know what fuck is even if it hit ya right in tha face. seems like someone is still a virginnn!

    • 42

      actually its mainstream news that makes a fake representation of life, there are many good things in this world that dont make it in the news, because it just aint that interesting to report about good things in life, it is way more easy to attract viewers by reporting all the bad things. thats why news reporting really distorts the perception of everyday life in general.

    • MidniteOwl

      Wanker as fuck.

  • Donald Med

    If its fake or not is not whats interesting about this post.

    What’s interesting is how Chinese netizens perceive any good news about the outside world as a criticism of China.

    • Luke the Duke

      None of the translated comments express a view like that.

      • 宋易

        “Actually our country also has many things like this. ”

        “I believe our Heavenly Kingdom also has many heartwarming moments.”

        “Not all the beautiful must be found in these photos. Our country is also very beautiful. Really.”

        All of these comments imply China needs to be proven to others… they are responses to perceived criticism. Perhaps you could argue “No, these are just people adding to the happiness.” Some commenters share stories about *their own life experiences* to add to the content of the forum. But the above comments are simply generalizing that “not only foreigners have this! just like not only foreigners have iPhones! and Prada! and indoor plumbing!”

        • Kai

          No, all of these comments imply there were other comments with actual–not perceived–criticisms of China relative to non-China.

          http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/pictures/acts-of-kindness-and-good-people-chinese-netizen-reactions.html#comment-1831962477

          • 宋易

            Ah, brilliant job, chinasmack editorial staff. Way to really give us the complete picture.

          • Kai

            You’ve been reading cS for years.

            How have you avoided reading our About or FAQ page this entire time?

            Or the countless times in past articles where we’ve explicitly mentioned there being thousands of comments of which only some, usually the most upvoted, have been translated?

            Thus preventing you from knowing that the translated comments are only a sample of the comments present on the original Chinese source, for which we provide clear direct links to for anyone wishing to investigate further?

            We can only provide you a “glimpse”. The glimpse provided here had enough information for a careful reader to surmise that there were enough comments ragging on China for the comments objecting to them to be made and then popularly upvoted by those who share the objection.

            For a long-time reader like you, it is unfathomable that you’d take these comments as the only comments made, thus making your accusation of cS editorial staff not giving you a “complete picture” unfair if not outright dishonest.

          • 宋易

            “YOU SHOULD HAVE INFERRED ONE TYPE OF COMMENT FROM THE MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF ANOTHER TYPE OF COMMENT!”

            When “number of upvotes” is the sole or most important criterion for what to translate and publish here, there’s a problem. Why even have a human staff? Just use Google translate and bots, save a ton of money, and stop begging for funds.

            It’s not my fault the chinasmack model is flawed, nor does the FAQ place chinasmack beyond reproach.

          • Kai

            Our model is indeed flawed, as I think a model that seeks to provide a glimpse of what’s “popular” is necessarily going to be flawed. It’ll never be able to show “everything” and there are a ton of ways the model can be confounded.

            That said, it remains true that we made our model very clear right from the beginning. Your fault is in expecting something you have no reasonable excuse for expecting, and then criticizing us for not providing it to you. Your fault is in being unreasonable when confronted (quite politely in fact) with a mistake on your part.

            Also, you’re welcome to use Google Translate instead of relying on us humans to parse tone, inflection, slang, and spelling/grammar errors for you.

          • 宋易

            ah, well, knowing how much stock you put into upvotes, me, the original poster, and 18 upvotes says cs published translated comments that provided an inaccurate ‘glimpse’ of what chinese netizenry wanted to say.

            hide behind the faq if you want, makes no difference. im really not trying to give you or cs staff a hard time, i figure my sarcastic one liner above was just a light jab and relenting to your explanation, but if youre going to keep coming back to make silly arguments casting blame on me for being an irresponsible reader or whatever your point is, im going to respond to them appropriately. :)

          • Kai

            I put limited stock in upvotes. They tell me something, not everything.

            The upvotes you have tell me there are people who share your opinion. However, the fact that people share your opinion doesn’t make your opinion “right”, “fair”, or even “reasonable”. The same is true for a lot of Chinese netizen comments that also have lots of upvotes.

            Next, I welcome each and every one of the people who upvoted you to articulate how the glimpse we provided is “inaccurate” relative to what we said we’d do. Were these not the most upvoted comments on the microblog post? Does the fact that they were upvoted NOT have some value in reflecting popular sentiment? Were our translations wrong?

            This is more a case of people having certain opinions about Chinese people that they think these comments substantiate. In other words, they saw what they wanted to see. This is a very human thing to do. Chinese netizens are often guilty of it too.

            Your last paragraph is disingenuous. I’m tired so that’s where I’ll leave it.

          • 宋易

            Ha! I remember a while ago we had a discussion, and you just kept saying “upvotes, upvotes, look at all the upvotes MY comments got!” I replied “you give too much credit to upvotes, you have no idea why other people award upvotes,” and then you replied with what amounted to “nuh huh! no I don’t!” Its like arguing with a 12 year old!

            Why can’t you just admit cs did kind of a shitty job this round? Instead… “Oh, our model is naturally flawed, but you’re also a bad reader, er something.” even though I gave in right away, having taken your word for it no less!

            But then you dismiss the last part of my comment calling it disingenuous (because you can’t admit its right).

            You’re a smart guy with a big fat masturbatory ego.

          • Kai

            I think you remember incorrectly.

            I believe I was commenting critically about the amount of upvotes someone else’s comment got. I was saying the number of upvotes it got disappointed me, because it showed a demoralizingly large number of people who agree with a sentiment I found disagreeable and distasteful.

            So, I wasn’t commenting about the upvotes on my own comment, much less boasting about it, especially when I’ve regularly criticized the “I’m right because people agree with me” argument some people resort to.

            You ask why I can’t “admit” cS did a shitty job this time. My answer is that we didn’t, so there is nothing for us to admit. There is nothing different in how this article was handled versus other articles.

            I could turn your offensive back on you: Why can’t you admit you just made a mistake this round?

            You didn’t “give in right away”. You reacted very indignantly and negatively to both myself and Luke when all we did was correct mistaken interpretations of the comments,.

            I dismiss the last part of your comment because it is grossly dishonest and only your continued attempt to blame others for your own mistake. You couldn’t just acknowledge you were mistaken, so you snidely insinuate it is cS’s editorial staff’s fault for not providing you the “complete picture”, as if you didn’t know cS generally translates only a sample of the available comments, usually the most upvoted.

            I believe the facts of the matter and the comment history support my position over yours. I believe I’ve conducted myself more civily and reasonably in this entire exchange than you have. I do not doubt there are people who will side with you because they share your resentment of me. That’s fine, I can’t please everyone. All I can say is that these petty ad hominem insults you keep throwing at me doesn’t reflect well on you.

        • Luke the Duke

          No, they imply that the article disproportionately focuses on acts of kindness in other places while not paying attention to acts of kindness that take place in China. There is no insinuation that the article is criticising China.

          • 宋易

            That’s *exactly* what the first commenter said…. there is no insinuation that the article is criticizing China.

            And more than a few comments imply that it is taken that way.

          • Luke the Duke

            What? Maybe I didn’t spell it out clearly enough for you:

            There is no insinuation on the part of the Chinese netizens that the article is criticising China, implicitly or otherwise.

          • 宋易

            Ah, and I should point out, according to Kai, their responses have nothing to do with a disproportionate focus on acts of kindness in other places, but rather responses to other Chinese people making less than savory comments about the state of kindness in China.

            Is that spelled out clearly, as well?

          • HumanWorm

            Maybe my brain is so addled due to the toxic food load, MSG, heavy metals or just the fact that I’m aging that I’m misunderstanding. I used to attend an English Corner when I lived in Tianjin years ago at the Uni. One day an elderly retired Prof who spoke good English said what China lacked was compassion. This is often born out in my everyday interactions; a lack of consideration, hardcore selfishness, an almost but not quite total dearth of empathy. Why is that? Worse still, is that some people’s self-esteem is so pathetically fragile that knee-jerk defensiveness to perceived not real criticism is 100% predictable. Objective evaluation and open discussion replaced by a my-country-right-or-wrong mentality. So tedious. Why is this?

          • Alex Dương

            Are you trying to link lack of compassion with my-country-right-or-wrong?

          • ScottLoar

            The elderly retired prof was wrong. Chinese have sympathy (i.e. caring and understanding for the suffering of others) and even compassion (i.e. sympathy and sorrow for one stricken by misfortune accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering) in abundance as testifies popular romance novels and melodramas, and the comment and response to individual suffering when publicized or to mass tragedy such as a natural disaster. What Chinese curiously lack is empathy, which is caring and understanding for the situation of others, or walking in another’s shoes.

          • Probotector

            They’re indoctrinated that way.

          • Luke the Duke

            Yes. A bunch of Chinese netizens used this story as an opportunity to attack China.

            That is not the same thing as netizens interpreting the story itself as an attack on China, which is what you originally said they were doing.

          • 宋易

            Yes, I said that before I had more information about the nature of the other comments.

            Your explanation, however, is wrong by all accounts.

            So tone the sass down about 20 notches.

          • Luke the Duke

            And now you’ve reached the stage where you don’t have any counter-points whatsoever to offer.

            Game, set and match, my friend. Peace out.

          • 宋易

            L: “You’re wrong.”
            S: “Ah, you are also wrong. We are both wrong.”
            L: “YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT! I WIN!!!”

            Intellectual boredom.

          • Dolph Grunt

            Why does it matter so much who’s right or wrong?

            A back and forth argument where the sole purpose isn’t to expand one’s thinking, but an attempt to prove one’s thinking wrong and squash it.

            You’re absolutely right. Intellectual boredom.

    • 宋易

      Last part… very well put.

  • Luke the Duke

    The guy who found the fridge is a doofus for returning the money.

  • KamikaziPilot

    That homeless guy, 6th pic down was a pretty big story in the US. I know there was a website where donations were solicited to allow him to buy a home. Last I checked it was well over $100,000. I donated I think $20. Shows good deeds do sometimes pay off, hope he’s doing well now.

  • FYIADragoon

    The fact that the first thing the Chinese netizens do is say “but we have this too”, pretty much illustrates all that needs to be said about their mindset. Can’t enjoy anything without making it about nationality. Nationalist propaganda of the CCP seems to have made some inroads.

    • Kai

      Not quite. Remember, comments aren’t necessarily listed in chronological order, but it shouldn’t be too hard to realize several of the translated comments are clearly referencing other comments that came before them and were not translated but ostensibly saying “but these are all abroad, not in China” (which isn’t even technically true if you look closely).

      The popularity of that sentiment is what prompted the greater popularity of the counter-sentiment that IS revealed above in the translated comments, because they had way more upvotes.

      So the narrative is that many Chinese netizens couldn’t enjoy this without making it a condemnation about their own nationality, prompting many more Chinese netizens to criticize them for being myopic and unfair to their own nationality.

      Neither is really characterized by “CCP nationalist propaganda making inroads”. If anything, the former shows incredibly cynical self-perception among many Chinese netizens, while the latter I think shows fairly normal “well, wait a second…” objection.

      • FYIADragoon

        I’m not trying to make a statement about the in/not in China ordeal, but the fact that a line in the sand must be drawn over nationality in any article that they read where it talks about anything global. Whether its for/against China, they still seem intent on pointing out that China is not the rest of the world. This inability to view themselves as part of the rest of the world is something I view as a product of CCP propaganda. Unless this is an inbred issue. I’m trying to give them credit here though.

        • Kai

          Some Chinese netizens saw this list and either jokingly or seriously suggested these things wouldn’t be seen in China. I think you linking this to “CCP nationalist propaganda” is a stretch. On the contrary, it’s arguably fashionable among Chinese netizens to be self-critical of their nation and the state of its society, which is explicitly something CCP nationalist propaganda would discourage.

          Now, I understand you’re suggesting or arguing that CCP nationalist propaganda teaches Chinese people to see themselves as separate from the rest of the world and to interpret everything in terms of nationality, us vs. them, etc. However, I really don’t think that is applicable here. You’d be starting with a desired conclusion and trying to make the data fit it.

          We have to review what you said:

          The fact that the first thing the Chinese netizens do is say “but we have this too”,

          It wasn’t the first thing Chinese netizens said. The opposite being said is actualy what was said that prompted the comments you’re referring to.

          pretty much illustrates all that needs to be said about their mindset.

          Since your premise is faulty, your conclusion is as well.

          Can’t enjoy anything without making it about nationality.

          This part may be a reasonable criticism, but it would not be against the people you were actually referring to, but to the people THEY were responding to. THOSE people arguably couldn’t appreciate these random acts of kindness from various countries around the world WITHOUT using it to take a dig against their generalized negative perception of their OWN country, China. They arguably made it about nationality, by praising other nationalitities and criticizing their own.

          • FYIADragoon

            My premise is faulty then because I read the comments as not being direct responses. But, my conclusion doesn’t really change even with this updated information. Only the direction of it does. I think it still is rather applicable to the fact that posters had to bring up nationality in this instance. I think the criticism we so often see them making of their country is perhaps an unintended side effect of propaganda in that they can’t realize how some problems are shared all around the world. I’m sure the CCP isn’t happy about that, but it doesn’t change the fact that it happens.

          • Kai

            Yeah, I suspected your conclusion wouldn’t “change”. That’s why I said you’re starting with your conclusion and trying to make the data fit it. However, while it doesn’t “change” for you, it is still “faulty” as a “conclusion” for the data you’re ostensibly responding to. Do you understand what I mean?

            As for thinking them being so self-critical is related to CCP propganda, I still think it is a very tenuous stretch. It’s more closely related to the “grass is greener” effect or even the misleading vivdness fallacy than it is to any direct or indirect influence by an amorphous undefined notion of “CCP nationalist propoganda”.

            For example, it’s closer to Indians admiring Chinese economic growth or Americans admiring European universal healthcare. At some point, someone is going to say something self-critical exaggerating for effect that others feel goes too far, and it isn’t uncommon for Chinese netizens to casually shit on the state of modern Chinese society given the prevalence of news involving corruption or moral failings both serious and petty.

            When push comes to shove, they’d concede they’re exaggerating and generalizing, that they of course know there are instances of kindness in China too, but they’d defend the validity of the point they’re making, which is that China could do better.

            They’d have to concede the point others are making in response though as well.

    • 宋易

      I feel confident that such comments would not be made if an English language forum displaying random acts of kindness with only Chinese (or otherwise East Asians) in the photos. I think Americans would generally say “oh, that’s nice”, and while there would be plenty of cynicism about the brutal nature of the CCP and references to China’s mid-20th century, I think a comment saying “Oh, this happens in America too, because we are also nice” would be a needle in a haystack.

      More succinctly, Americans don’t have a stick up their ass about proving themselves to anyone.

      • Kai

        If it were random acts of kindness, it depends on whether anyone is stupid enough to try suggesting a void of kindness in America. The moment that happens, you’ll have Americans indignantly pointing out that acts of kindness happen in America as well.

        These comments don’t reflect Chinese having a stick up their ass about proving themselves to anyone, they reflect Chinese people being as annoyed with myopic unfair generalizations as any other nationality.

        • 宋易

          You’re comparing direct provocation to irrational insecurity.

          I’m not saying online forums of Americans are *good.* This is the only forum that I participate in regularly because most other sites I visit are full of vicious Americans who say the most horrifying things in response to the slightest disagreement.

          But one side has a huge stick up their ass, with lots of little twigs on it, and its getting twisted around a lot, and it hurts like hell, while the other gets a constant stream of international criticism for its foreign policy, its use of resources, its financial failures, and so on, and you’ll find most Americans don’t give a shit or even pay attention to it.

          It’s not necessary to be an apologist for China netizen insecurity. We’ve all got some. It’s just that theirs is so public.

          • Kai

            Yes, I am comparing direct provocation to irratonal insecurity, because you interpreted the Chinese netizen comments as products of the latter when they are actually products of the former.

            I’m not an apologist for Chinese netizen insecurity, I’m pointing out the fact that you misidentified natural human reactions to provocation as irrational insecurity.

          • 宋易

            You understand that the reason some people here misinterpreted that is precisely because thats the kind of stuff we hear directly from many Chinese in our daily lives, right? Including on many chinasmack articles related to foreign policy or disputes.

            I’d love to take any given debate from a broadcast news program with a split screen, cut out the video and sound from one side, and then ask you to figure out what one person is saying based on what the person you can see and hear is saying. Then I’ll scold you in an online forum if you’re wrong.

          • Kai

            chinaSMACK’s format admittedly requires a certain amount of critical reading and thinking skills. We like to believe we’ve made it very clear in our About and FAQ pages what to expect from our content, including its limitations. A new reader who has just stumbled on our site could be forgiven for misunderstanding our format. You are not a new reader.

            We aim to provide a glimpse of what is trending, of what is popular. We do not promise to lay out “both sides of the debate”. It just isn’t our mission and it never has been. It isn’t fair for you to expect that of us. We’ve never misrepresented what we can offer, so it is indeed unfair for you to demand of us what we’ve never promised you.

            There are often thousands of comments on the content we translate. It just isn’t practical for us to read all of them and then make even more subjective decisions on which ones we should translate to reflect “both sides” of any possible debate. As I believe our FAQ makes clear (and I’m sure I’ve said this before), there are pitfalls with our model of translating the most upvoted comments when they’re available. However, it is a pragmatic compromise. It is what we can do. We believe there is still value in seeing the comments that got the most votes and are actually displayed most prominently on the comment pages of these Chinese sites. Whatever its pitfalls are for representing “everything”, it is a compromise that we believe has obvious value.

            It’s interesting that you feel I was “scolding” you. Can you quote what exactly I said in my initial comment that was “scolding”? I thought my response was pretty dispassionate, especially in comparison to your initial comment mistakenly “scolding” the Chinese netizens as “having a stick up their ass about proving themselves to anyone.”

          • Probotector

            So who provoked the above netizens (God that’s a shitty word btw) to make these comments?

          • Kai

            Other netizens (don’t blame me, I didn’t come up with it) earlier in the comments of that microblog post. We provided links directly to the source. We don’t have the resources to read and translate all the thousands of comments but anyone who wants to investigate further is entirely encouraged to do so. That’s the whole point of our site, to provide a glimpse that when read carefully often tells a lot, just like anything else we read.

      • FYIADragoon

        I don’t believe they would either, though I feel like some sort of snipe at one of the political parties would take place instead.

      • Zsari Maxim

        Lol, looks like someone never met the USA #1 crowd.

        • 宋易

          Those guys with the big foam hands? :-D

      • Probotector

        Agreed with the first paraggraph, but “More succinctly, Americans don’t have a stick up their ass about proving themselves to anyone.” Really?

        • 宋易

          Yeah, really…. if anything, Americans tend to be self-deprecating. I always shake my head an laugh when I hear Chinese complain that American news media only reports bad news about China (which they only think because Chinese news tells them that, not because they actually read or watch American news and know firsthand, but thats a different issue), because American news media mostly reports bad news about America, too! The United States persists under a cloud of its own criticism. Actually, it would seem I criticising the US right now. :-D

          If you disagree, give me an example of what you’re talking about, so I understand you better.

          • Probotector

            I’ve found Americans I meet across the world feel they have to prove their superiority – not all, and only sometimes, but it does happen, you know what I mean, the infamous ‘American sass’, like telling other English speakers that they can’t speak English properly, or always bringing up American revolutionary democracy and trying to educate the rest of us, that sort of thing. Some of them seem to have a lot of aggression in other countries, again not all of them, but a fair few I meet. The point is, I’ve not seen people of another nationality abroad who do this so openly.

            Regarding the self-deprecating news media, it’s more likely the liberal outlets that spew the anti-American vitriol.

          • 宋易

            Eh, even with Fox New’s constant flag waiving, most of the news they report is bad news about the US itself.

            I get it, though… perhaps this comes with being from an enormous country. I just find its so common in China that it often does not even need to be provoked, and the difference is, you don’t need to meet them abroad to hear it. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to the U.S….. maybe you would hear it there, too. Its more difficult to see as an insider.

            But the “other English speakers can’t speak English properly…” I’ve only ever heard that from Brits. Irish, NZers, Aussies, never heard them say that.

          • 宋易

            I’ll tell you one way in which Americans go to retardland… many are actually *proud* that we don’t switch to the metric system. :-(

      • hptan

        You explain it pretty well. I could see a lot of English comments bashing off Chinese race as a whole when there is negative news or video about China. But when it’s Chinese doing a good act, they will suddenly turn ‘colorblind’ and just say, “oh that’s nice”

    • Probotector

      Only some inroads?

  • Amused

    As much as I hate to admit it, everyone in the world DOESN’T have a heart made of shit, and there are still nice folks out there. Meh, that’s as gushy as I can muster.

    • Probotector

      …but most people do

  • AbC

    Nice people can be found everywhere. As the pictures show, kind hearts are not bounded by borders, culture, religion or ethnicity.
    It’s a shame that there are just as many dickheads in this world.

  • Yes!

    Hold on. Are you gonna go help that old lady lying on the roadside now? Aren’t you afraid she might accuse you of pushing her over and demanding compensation from you?

  • jianfei

    This reminds me of the CCTV crap.. China get real you green children… if you wanna fix your society… ??? start by standing in a fucking line and dont push infront… you have disgusting sense of no order… maybe in the next dynasty you false fuckers will behave as semi humans

    • mr.wiener

      People in glasses houses mate.
      This is actually a story about chinese peoples reactions to acts of kindness ,which in many cases are critical about their own societies politeness or lack thereof. As China becomes more pre~eminent on the world stage there is an increasing sense of embarrassment with this. The rections are increasingly both defensive and self critical.
      Are you so certain your own country is without any stain? Tone down your language please.

      • Probotector

        …But the question is, is anything, or will anything, or can anything practical be done about it?

        • mr.wiener

          All cultures are in a different phases of evolution, and continue to evolve and change.

          • jaded

            This one isn’t evolving.

          • mr.wiener

            It is…just…slowly.

    • 42

      why so much hate? some CCP party members gang raped your grandmother or something?

  • jianfei

    acts of bullshit cctv propoganda!! wtf has chinasmack become……wtf!@!@

  • jianfei

    slowly methodically the chinese propoganda machine has destroyed this website!!!

    • 42

      If portraying mankinds goodness is propaganda, then I welcome it! what hurt does it do? so take your stick out of your butt, and gublle up some prozac! it will loosen up your pathetic depressive mind!

  • jianfei

    china doesnt like being the no. 1 economy!! thats.. to obvious!! china prefers to shit talk the western world yet when they are named no. 1 they will deny it because they dont wanna increase the value of their rmb…

    • jianfei

      buk buk buk ber buk buk =)

      • mr.wiener

        That is quite enough.

        • jianfei

          piss off jewish troll

          • mr.wiener

            Scots /English convict scum and German religious biggots actually.

        • YourSupremeCommander

          You gonna just take that Mr. Weiner?

          • mr.wiener

            It has been dealt with.

  • vonskippy

    It’s a nice read, and you get a nice warm fuzzy feeling, until your brain (and reality) kicks in and tells you that for every nice act in the world, there are hundreds of thousands of bad/cruel/mean/unfriendly acts. Until the “nice acts” become the norm, the world will remain the cesspool it currently is.

  • YourSupremeCommander

    Chinese man spends $1300 on round trip airfare to fly from China to NYC, just to give $100 to a black man.

    • mr.wiener

      He was even nice enough to tell the camera crew where he’d be.
      http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/templates/143250.jpg

    • Jahar

      where can I get a ticket for that price? I live in Halifax and most of the time tickets are like $2000.

      • hess

        I feel bad for you canucks… Average price from Stockholm to Beijing and back is way below 970 CAD

  • 42

    some commentators say it is just CCP propaganda and its fake reporting just for influencing the public opinion.

    First of all, reporting about good things in life, we can’t have enough of those, if that is considered propaganda, then we need more of it!

    However it is but actually mainstream news that makes a fake representation of life. There are many good things in this world that dont make it in the news, because it merely just aint that interesting to report about good things in life, it is way more easy to attract viewers by reporting all the bad things. thats why mainstream news reporting is really the one who is distorting the perception of everyday life in general.

    We need to realize it is okay to show good people doing good things once in awhile, instead of having WARS, killings, crimes hitting the headlines news everyday.

    Islamic extremists for example pick up negative propaganda and misperceptions to justify their terror and hate against western nations. If we can somehow change their mindset, if we somehow can change anybodies mindset for that matter, we then can make a better world.

    Propaganda, or education as some may call it, doesn’t have to be considered a bad thing. Murphy’s law states if you think about bad things, expect bad things to happen, eventually you will receive bad things.

    So why not turn it around and think and show of good things. You might bring a change for the better.

    • Darnell Bond

      I don’t listen to the news to hear about good or bad things in life; I listen because I want to hear what important events have recently happened. My local news station has a segment each week entitled “Pass the Buck.” During this portion of the show our uniquely emotional newscaster gets on air and gives money to a person in dire straits. Although charity is almost always undeserving of condemnation, the intent of the segment—to make the audience feel fuzzy inside—is grotesque and its delivery often insipid. I think the idea of news people attempting to play at my heartstrings is disgusting. The few times large, nation-wide stations show good acts (almost always with the intention of ‘touching’ the audience) the worthiness of the deed takes backstage to a festival of emotional reactions. Absolutely sickening.

    • Probotector

      It’s only worth hearing if the good things in life are the majority of occurrences in the world. If it is propaganda designed to hoodwink people into believing that goodness is all around us when it’s not, then that can be quite dangerous. On the other hand, seeing fleeting acts of kindness does have the power to inspire others to do the same, so it can be seen as a world changing effort. The question then is will people actually be inspired or will they not give a shit either way?

  • Carmel Mujin

    Some of these images are stupid as hell. The mailman’s messages, for instance, is sentimental drivel. Flowers for a loved one is packaged insincerity. Being a human chair for hours is an unctuous plea for attention, uncomfortable for both the ‘chair’ and the old person. Some of these do ‘strike a chord’. Reading to an illiterate coworker gets me.

    • Carmel Mujin

      Just noticed the human seat one was in a broken elevator. An odd way to help an old lady. Not sure how I would have handled the situation. Certainly a kind act. I originally thought the fellow stood in a working elevator offering his body as a chair for the elderly. Putting it in that way makes it both an unctuous act and perverse.

      • KamikaziPilot

        I think I remember that story that the old lady was having a hard time standing that long. Still I don’t know why she just couldn’t sit on the floor, albeit a bit more uncomfortable. Anyways I guess you can say it’s the thought that counts, although taking a picture shows there is some desire for attention. I don’t remember who took the picture, it looks like it was taken after the elevator already opened, so might have been staged.

  • Mihel

    One of the things I dislike most about chinese commenters is the constant instinct to put themselves(=their country) in comparison with other foreign people(=their foreign country).
    Whether the conclusion is that they are better or worse than some foreign country, it’s annoying that they often feel the need to prove something to others or to themselves.

    • KamikaziPilot

      That’s what happens when you have a severe inferiority complex that is prevalent in much of the population. Another reason why nationalism is so strong and you have so many Chinese claiming to be “proud” to be Chinese.

      • Mihel

        I don’t really think this constant comparison stems from feelings of inferiority, rather from some sort of ‘instinct’ (for the lack of a better term) that they have to know exactly if they are better or worse than X foreign country before interacting with them.

        • KamikaziPilot

          But then why would they have this instinct? There has to be a reason. DO you think it’s just because they’re extremely curious about the outside world? Or maybe that’s a part of their culture (having to know if they’re better or worse than someone before interacting with them)? I still think it’s a feeling of inferiority, hence always having to “prove” something.

          • Homer

            After spending a lot of time in China it seems as though the culture is based upon a lot of negativity and a lack of trust.
            So, of course it is a culture with an inferiority complex.

            Chinese do not trust their own friends and neighbors, and most familial relationships seem to be very negative.

            How can you explain people that never say “I love you” to their own spouses and children ?

          • Yes!

            “”most familial relationships seem to be very negative.””

            A lot of truth in this. Even among their network of relatives they are highly “competitive and comparative”. Yet strangely enough, in spite of the tensions and constant bickering, they’re still a tightly knit unit.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Maybe even below the surface they’re tightly knit. They are more likely to take care of their parents in old age. Whether this be because of social obligations or genuine caring depends on the individual situation I think.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Agree that the culture is based on a lot of negativity and distrust but I don’t think it’s necessarily worse when compared to the West (which is what most Chinese compare themselves with). I disagree about familial relationships being more negative too. In America we have parents sexually abusing their kids, domestic abuse and homicides, and other dysfunction. There are some really fucked up family situations in America. Percentage wise I don’t know how it compares to Chinese families but I don’t think Chinese families are significantly worse, just different.

            It’s wrong and ethnocentric to criticize Chinese for not saying “I love you”. The culture is completely different and the younger generation is saying it more and more. But still, it’s only words, actions speak much louder than words. I myself have never been a big advocate of saying it, anyone can say it, but not everyone can show by actions they love another person. Don’t be one of those that say Chinese don’t love each other as much as other cultures just because they have a different way of expressing it. That would be idiotic.

            I don’t know the root cause of the inferiority complex, maybe because they have exposure to more of the world outside China and they feel the need to catch up. They have an inferiority complex towards whites and Japanese, and to compensate, a superiority complex towards darker skinned people.

          • Guest

            Yet they would claim that “Chinese parents love their kids so much’ blah blah blah

        • Jahar

          They are always comparing themselves and their kids to everyone else too. It’s not just the country to others.

  • Yes!

    Meanwhile, in other news, a Chinese tourist dries her underwear on chairs at Chiang Mai airport…http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/chinese-tourist-dries-her-underwear-placing-it-chairs-chiang-mai-airport

  • Free Man

    To all chinese people saying that this can be found in China as well:

    Show me the chinese dude who would give up his run in a race to hand over some water to a black human being.

    Not gonna happen.

    • mr.wiener

      Kindness and empathy are found everywhere to varying degrees…the lego representation on your avatar is of the “tank man” for example, Someone chose to do something brave, and the guy driving the tank chose not to run him over.

      • Free Man

        Nothing wrong with that, but what are you trying to say? That you can find a chinese person, who would give up his run in a race to hand over some water to a black human being?

        • mr.wiener

          Why not?
          Chinese within the cultural entity that is China do lack empathy compared to other places in the world, but this doesn’t mean it is entirely absent either.

          • Free Man

            Then show me.

          • mr.wiener

            You think because there isn’t a picture of it, it hasn’t happened or never will?
            If this is the case, you’re right , I’m wrong, you’re smart, I’m stupid….. but in a nation of over billion people I’m sure there are random acts of kindness and gratuitous moments of beauty that happen everyday.
            http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/pictures/girl-holds-umbrella-for-disabled-old-beggar-in-rainstorm.html

          • Free Man

            You don’t even care what I think, so I will take your question as a rhetoric one.

            So you can’t show me even 1 example? 1.3 billion people, one of the largest countries on this planet, and you can’t find 1 single instance of such an event?

            Just playing the clever adult talking to a child or link to stuff showing nothing to proof your point isn’t really helping here. It just proofs that you are saying something you simply can not proof. Me on the other hand never claimed that this has never or will never happen, I just said: “Show me!”. I don’t expect this to happen, because I don’t expect anyone wasting his/her time to find something so unlikely being recorded somewhere. And even if someone tried to, I expect to be much older when it happens. And then it only proofs, that things change, even in China.

          • mr.wiener

            Oh lord, you aren’t going to make me do a wall of text explaining how we both misunderstood what the other was saying are you?
            Sorry you thought I was being condecending…really I had no intention to.
            The hour is late and I must get to rugby training..laters

          • Free Man

            have a safe trip

          • mr.wiener

            Thanks, you too.

    • 42

      Don’t know about chinese giving up his run in a race for a black person. But this african guy loves the communnist party and can even sing in chinese! very popular in china, they love this african brother.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wr0zsCzV0I

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSQJcC5B1-Q

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQD0cthVbU

      • Free Man

        Can’t watch it, but I got myself on video singing the chinese anthem somewhere on youtube, too. Doesn’t mean I love the CCP.

      • Probotector

        Because he’s doing something for them. Would it ever be reciprocated?

        • 42

          Yes it does, by having good bilateral relationships between races and nations, for example China will and is investing alot in Africa. This African brother is probably showing gratitude of China contributing in african society, thats why he grows a fond of chinese culture and people. If the relationship between nations have no common grounds then the likeliness of working together will be less.

          • Probotector

            you’re a fucking moron. China has good bilateral relationships? lol Is that why you teach your people that non-Chinese people, especially black people, are inferior? Is they why you guys are plundering Africa? is that why in Obama’s last visit to China, he agreed to everything Xi Jinping wanted and got nothing in return? Please, China is an uber-nationalist fascist dictatorship that believes in the supremacy and primacy of the Han Chinese nation and race, which makes us enemies. China does not believe in bilateral relations. You’re not selling your BS to me jackson.

          • mr.wiener

            @disqus_5xS38xIeTi:disqus
            @disqus_014EK2WiMn:disqus
            Lets keep this civil shall we? …just a word from your friendly neighbourhood stalker….ehm…moderator.

          • Probotector

            so swear words are forbidden?

          • mr.wiener

            They aren’t conducive to constructive conversation. Pretty please? I’m asking nicely.

          • 42

            swear words are not forbidden, it just shows lack of character and respect and can be considered as a downright disgusting behavior, thats all.

          • 42

            he/she/it used the f-word first, and to as I have used none whatsoever, so I do not know why you are adressing me, leave me out of it please, thank you.

          • mr.wiener

            Cut me some slack bro. I had to address you both as some folk here get very tetchy :)

          • 42

            you are so ignorant and naive, the things you see in the news are geo-political games that needs to be played to satisfy the public opinion, for ignorant people like you.

            behind the scenes however there are collaborations even between the most disputed nations, no country can survive on their own, enemies hate each other, but also need each other. Sun Tzus Art of War said keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer, as soon as you lose view and ties with your enemy, then you cannot predict their move.

            i dont believe chinas investment in Africa is just to plunder their recourses, as I dont believe African leaders are sitting back with their arms over each other letting to be plundered, there are some benefits for both China and Africa, thats why they are doing business with each other, there are no free meals in this world, there must be some profit for both.

            China has become the second largest economy is just about 30 years time. However Africa have been receiving decades of investments and humanitarian aides from western nations, but still to this day has no significant economical improvement.

            China has done more for Africa in relatively short time than any western investment has done for decades! so who is actually doing the plundering?

          • Jahar

            The people I know who are from African countries hate the way Chinese companies behave there.

            Using someone to make money doesn’t mean they like them. Ask all the elephants that were slaughtered for the ivory Xi Jinping and his friends smuggled out.

    • Probotector

      Yeah, if those two races were reversed, (i.e. a Chinese chick and a paraplegic black man) she’d most likely just laugh at him.

  • Markus P

    Question: Is this true, Chinese post office stopped be from
    posting my DVDs with home made movies on back home, they said they need to
    watch them all before allowing them to be sent in case they have anything bad
    on… I sat there for 3 hours while they watched all 4 DVDs I had made for my
    family. (all 4 disks were the same).

    Is that really a rule? they kept asking me questions like
    who is that, who is she, why are you here, what are you doing, they did not
    even understand the English so if i wanted to say something bad i could have
    they would not have even known so what the fuck was the point viewing my
    private videos?

    The reason i ask if that is a rule or not is coz today i am
    posting some more somewhere else (again posting overseas) will i have to sit
    there again for hours while they watch it?

    • Probotector

      No it’s not a rule, they’re just making you jump through hoops for being a “foreigner”. Go to a different post office and see if you get a different experience.

      • Markus P

        I had a feeling it wasn’t a rule, they wasted my time. I’ll try somewhere else and let you know if it happens again.
        They told me they had to view the disks, because if they didn’t do their job and something bad was found on it they would be to blame.

        • Yes!

          Maybe it’s a new rule to prevent people from sending out China’s secrets. Anything can be considered a national secret in China.

          • Jahar

            or a rule saying to make our lives more difficult.

      • Markus P

        Update: Another post office needed to see what was on the DVD, they said the rules also apply to a USB and harddrives that are sent by post overseas (I only had a dvd)… Maybe these rules are new?… Either way it is a big invasion of privacy.

        • Probotector

          You know that when mail comes in from overseas, especially large packages, the Chinese postal service will often tear it open and have a poke around?

  • redgirls

    Ohh, I was bringing my young fella to the airport to meet his uncle from a plane and there was Brian O’Driscoll and the rest of the leinster team my son was with me and knew them all and they each stepped forward and signed his homework journal.

    my son was a tag rugby player with his school at the time and it meant so much to him. They each took the time to do this for him. I was amazed by their good humour.

  • Probotector

    …And do such acts of kindness occur in China well… um…, no not really.

    I remember a comment made by Johnny Basic back on the ‘People’s Republic of Love’ article where he said

    “The title of this film sounds as discordant as ‘The People’s Republic of Transparent Government’, ‘The People’s Republic of Empathy’ or ‘The People’s Republic of Impeccable Table Manners’. All of these things, after all, are in equally short supply in this country. Quite simply, most Chinese relationships are entirely loveless.

    There are three reasons, and three reasons only, for any citizen of the PRC ever doing anything, ever:

    1) They are socially obligated to do it.
    2) They will derive material benefit from it.
    3) It will help pass the time in as brainless a fashion as possible.

    Relationships are no exception from this.”

    Now, that’s not strictly the case, because Chinese do good things sometimes, but they are few and far between. The reasons why can be numerous, but most people put it down to ignorance, which has the knock-on effect of creating a callous, nonchalant indifference in Chinese people’s mentalities. More to the point though, there is also a deeper cultural root to this moral vacuum, in that modern China (beyond filial piety) doesn’t really have any moral teachings. Now, we can’t just blame this on Communism, because, as abhorrent an ideology as that is, many of the ignorant and morally bereft in China are the elderly, who grew up before Communism. Now, the teachings of Marx and Mao will have led Chinese people to believe that ancient philosophical and religious teachings, including their moral teachings should be forgotten, and be replaced with the cult of personality of Mao (initially) and with latent nationalism (nowadays), accounting somewhat for the lack of knowledge of right & wrong. However, it seems that this lack of decency has its origins before the Revolution, and has been and still is passed along down the generations, to the extent that is is now a firmly innate part of Chinese culture

    Living in Thailand for the past three weeks since I left China, the differences in interpersonal behaviour, morality and even spacial awareness is immediately noticeable and striking. Thais have an underlying etiquette in their culture, which extends from a Buddhist moral and philosophical tradition. Now, if you look at any society that extends form a religious or morally pious philosophy, one can see that at least an underlying moral standard exists. It’s true in the West with it’s Judeo-Christian values, and it’s true among Muslims to an extent as well. Now, I’m not plugging religion as a morally better line of thinking per se, because religions have their own flaws, but in terms of teaching people to be good to one another, this is where Communism, which is Atheist in nature, fails to develop a society. Then again, like I said, shit was like this before the commies, so perhaps Taoism and Confucianism has some part to play as well, for instance, the mandate of heaven paradigm; basically meaning that shit happens, so deal with it.

    In any case, the above comments yearning for improvement will be met with disappointment.

    • Yes!

      There’s a common saying in mainland Chinese society ” 笑穷不笑娼”. Literal translation: “Laugh at poverty but no laugh at prostitution”. Reflects what their entire society is all about. Hence why morality is in such short supply among the mainlanders. It wasn’t so bad before the revolution; it was feudalism that fuelled the rise of communism but communism just stripped them of whatever little sense of morality and ethical behaviour they had before. Communist rule grew on the back of the peasant class, so essentially it was their peasantry ( thuggery, gangsterism, the lack of social grace or altruism, and so on) that came to power, this class has shaped their society till today. Just my 2 cents.

      • Ways That Are Dark

        The idea that “communism made the chinese like this” is a face-saving measure largely used by Taiwanese, Hong Kongers, Singaporean Chinese and others.

        The Chinese have always been like this. They are a people wholly without worthwhile culture of any kind. There is barely a single edifice in this entire Empire older than a few hundred years. I can go to tiny Southern European countries like Greece that have more impressive ancient monuments and architecture than all of the Qing Empire/PRC put together.

        • Alex Dương

          They are a people wholly without worthwhile culture of any kind.

          So why do you waste so much time bitching about China, its people, and people of other nationalities with Chinese ancestry?

          • Ways That Are Dark

            Because your co-ethnics are in my lands causing mischief, lol. If you were all back in the PRC I wouldn’t care.

          • Alex Dương

            Your land? We left your land 233 years ago, bud. @disqus_5xS38xIeTi:disqus, please tell me British people like this guy are a minuscule minority and that the vast majority of British people don’t go around bragging about how their kind “founded the United States of America.”

          • 42

            Go back to Europe! Free America! Native Indian Independance!

          • Ways That Are Dark

            You know, if there was some sort of cast-iron guarantee Chinese would not take over North America, and we could kick out troublesome Muslims and sub-Saharans from Europe, I’d agree to this proposition.

            But we all know you covet America for yourselves and would happily grind the Amerinds into dust to take it.

          • mr.wiener

            I think I saw that movie once….”Red Dawn” the remake wasn’t it?
            I think in the future we are probably all going to look more Polynesian…but I’m sure we’ll still find stuff to argue about.

          • Alex Dương

            Since you care so much about the demographics of a foreign country, tell me: Native Americans make up what percentage of the U.S. population?

        • James

          You can go to a tiny south-east asian country like Cambodia and find more impressive ancient monuments than you can in the whole of Europe. Your point?

          • Ways That Are Dark

            You can? So Milan Cathedral, the Duomo of Florence, the old city of
            Venice, St. Peters, the historic center of Paris etc are all
            unimpressive compared to Angor? You must be poorly travelled. Even
            Estonia has more beautiful towns than China, lol.

          • Alex Dương

            Why am I not surprised that your examples of “ancient” European architecture are from the Middle Ages? I suppose I should thank you for showing everyone how stupid your white nationalist ideology is.

          • Probotector

            Chinese nationalism largely focuses on their supremacy being legitimised by being the first human civilisation ever. He’s saying that the evidence of surviving historical relics in Europe dates back further than those (as least surviving) found in China. Now, I don’t agree with him on this. It’s obvious that China predates any European civilisation, but that was what he was saying.

          • Ways That Are Dark

            Probo: The oldest European civilization were the Minoans, circa 2,000 BC. Pre-Shang River Civs may predate that, but really, who cares? What I’m disputing is the idea China’s antiquity somehow outweighs Europe, when it’s clear in terms of antique art and architecture Europe blows China out the water.

        • 42

          What a load of racist bullshit. Chinese people are not perfect, but which race are? And to say all chinese are alike is just ignorant, pathetic and downright racist. But other than that It’s nothing compared with the atrocities that other nations have committed against the world. For example:

          Never in the entire chinese history had China wanted to
          expand their territory by conquering other parts of the world, as Empirial Japan or Nazi Germany did or the Roman empire, Mongolian empire for that matter. The WARS in china were mostly regionally or locally.

          Never in chinese history did China traded in slavery on a grand scale like the african slave trade.

          Never in chinese history did China waged WAR against groups and populations in the name of religion as in the crusades and missionaries by forcefully converting people to Christianity.

          Never in chinese history did China imported drugs just to control an entire nation like during the Opium Wars.

          Never in chinese history did China wiped out entire populations just to colonize their lands, like in wiping out native american idians or inhabitants of other parts of the world. For that matter never did China attempted colonization of any country outside their regions.

          I didnt wanted to comment, because you are obviously a troll, but here you go.

          If you weigh the scale of harm against humanity of chinese people against other humans on this planet during the entire human history, then some nations,especially that of europe far outweighs in regard to violation and abuse against human kind.

          Even till this day the United States have ignited more WARS than any other country, where actual people die, and yes it can be considered as neo imperialism, thats nothing compared to minor territorial disputes in China where there is less to none casualties.

          • Ways That Are Dark

            “Never in chinese history did China traded in slavery on a grand scale like the african slave trade.”

            What are you talking about? China was importing “negrito” SEA slaves for thousands of years, you clueless buffoon. Get off the CCP/KMT koolaid.

            “Never in the entire chinese history had China wanted to
            expand their territory by conquering other parts of the world”

            LOL. Are you delusional? How did you come into possession of vast tracts of Central Asia, Canton, Tibet, Xinjiang etc? Do you think the Han just happened to populate these lands as the dominant majority race from the start? Do you not realize Imperial China presided over a brutal de facto dominion of Vietnam that lasted near a thousand years?

            I’ll give you a clue: Go give Ran Min’s treatment of the Sogdonians a read.

            “Never in chinese history did China wiped out entire populations just to colonize their lands”

            Yes they did: Baoyue in South China, Jie and countless other ethnic groups were more or less exterminated. The Austronesians on Taiwan were ethnically cleansed as well.

            “outside their regions”

            And therein lies the problem. Your perception of what your “region” is today happens to encompass all of the South China Sea in its entirety.

            What you really mean is that you didn’t attempt overseas conquest. I’d agree with that, except I’d disagree with the idea it was motivated by kindness or empathy or any such bullshit – It was motivated by a complete ethnocentric ignorance of the world around you. That’s all.

            “Never in chinese history did China imported drugs just to control an entire nation like during the Opium Wars.”

            Uh, you do realize that Imperial China was Southeast Asia’s main dope peddler before the European arrival right? lol.

            You do realize that when Britain banned Indian exports of opium to China, the Chinese authorities immediately commanded the peasants to start planting their own opium again to gain a monopoly over a captive market, right?

            As for religion, who knows how many millions died in the Great Anti Buddhist Persecutions, which were motivated by anti-foreignism just like the Anti-Christian boxers were.

          • Probotector

            China’s never done anything wrong ever, everyone has always been perfect, and China was always peaceful until the evil foreigner came, right? How did the Chinese nation grow to the size it is over history if territorial expansion and wars were not started?

            The Chinese did trade in slavery for centuries.

            How many Chinese died under Mao Zedong, or died under warlords after the fall of Yuan Shikai? How many famines have the Chinese people suffered over the centuries, and ho many rebellions and civil wars have there been?

            No the USA has not united more wars than any other country. Try looking to Europe or the Middle East for geater numbers of conflicts

            Also, Chinese isn’t a race. He’s attacking the culture. A Chinese who subscribes to more egalitarian social and political ideas is not under criticism here.

            Get off the CCP propaganda and koolaid, read some real history and political text books, go out and get some life experience, then grow up and stop blindly defending your nation. Your ignorance is astounding.

          • 42

            oh yeah, pull out the old “maozedong is evil” card, that will do it. is that all you got?

          • Jahar

            China just got bigger by magic, right? Became an empire because everyone agreed to join peacefully?

            They had their share of slavery.

            Read more about the opium trade.

            No colonization because they couldn’t. They are envious of western imperialism. But they are working at it now.

          • Alex Dương

            @disqus_014EK2WiMn:disqus , it’s not true that

            Never in chinese history did China wiped out entire populations just to colonize their lands, like in wiping out native american indians or aboriginals in other parts of the world. Never did China attempted colonization of any country outside their regions for that matter.

            Xinjiang is Chinese because the Qing Empire under Qianlong committed genocide against the Zunghar people. And Vietnam is independent because it fought off Chinese rule on four separate occasions over a span of 1,000 years.

            And Jahar, please. If what the Chinese are doing in Xinjiang and Tibet bothers you so much today, maybe you should renounce your Canadian citizenship?

          • Jahar

            First, I didn’t say that it mothered me that much. Second, why would that make me renounce my Canadian citizenship? Is this the classic “western imperialists did it hundreds of years ago, so it’s okay for the Chinese to do it now” argument?
            This is idiotic, and you know it. Almost everything we dislike about any society now has happened in everyone’s history, and has pretty much been accepted.

            It was wrong then, but I wasn’t alive then. And that sort of thing is worse now. There were no human rights back then. We know better now.

          • Alex Dương

            No, this is the “don’t criticize one behavior and give another, almost identical behavior a free pass” argument.

          • Jahar

            So what is Canada doing that is identical? And why do you assume I’d be accepting of it? Is renouncing citizenship the only way to deal with an issue?

          • Alex Dương

            You criticize what the Chinese have done in their border regions. How, exactly, did Canada come to have its current borders? It was nice to the various First Nations peoples?

            Now, this is where your

            It was wrong then, but I wasn’t alive then. And that sort of thing is worse now. There were no human rights back then. We know better now.

            comes into play. So, is that all it takes? Acknowledge it was wrong and then move on as if nothing happened because you weren’t personally responsible for what happened? If so, does that also apply to the Chinese?

          • Jahar

            Jesus. There’s no one in the world who thinks what north american settlers did to the natives was anything other than horrendous. But it happened hundreds of years ago. IT CAN’T BE STOPPED. There’s nothing anyone can do to prevent it. What’s happening in Xinjiang can be stopped. How is this not obvious to you?

            Also, why is it that anything short of renouncing my Canadian citizenship implies that I condone, or even agree with those acts from back then? If I disagree with a choice my government makes I’m obligated to leave? That’s a cowards way out.

          • Alex Dương

            Sure, it can be stopped. You and everyone else who feels that “what’s happening in Xinjiang can be stopped” can leave and go back to wherever it is your ancestors came from in Europe. After all, you expect the Chinese to do essentially just that in Xinjiang. If you still insist that too much time has elapsed in North America, well, Chinese claims to Xinjiang date back to 1758.

            I’m not implying that failure to leave / renounce citizenship implies you condone what happened. Obviously you don’t. The basic thing is that you expect the Chinese to do something that you absolutely, adamantly refuse to do yourself.

            Now, if you’re talking about self-determination, no problem whatsoever. I don’t know your personal opinion on this, but Canada has a system in place that allows for Quebecois self-determination. So if you want the same for Tibet and Xinjiang, like I said, no problem. But don’t expect them to do what you will not do.

          • Jahar

            What the fuck are you talking about? I didn’t say anything about expecting them to do anything I’m not willing to do. You are arguing against shit that someone else said, it seems. Because I’m talking about the present, not 1700 whatever.

            I expect them to do something I refuse to do myself?

            They are straight out racist. They are bulldozing historical cultural sites to build shopping malls. Paying people to breed them out. Outlawing religious activities for them. Not for all the people of the religion, just for them. Making them register with the government if they want to buy a phone.

            If there’s something I said to you to make you think I do this to First Nations peoples, or Quebecers, I don’t know what it was. And if this shit was going on in Canada, of course I’d be against it.

            The Chinese government, right now, is trying to get rid of the uigurs, and take everything there for themselves and Han Chinese. Not just the ones that were born there.

          • Alex Dương

            I didn’t say anything about expecting them to do anything I’m not willing to do.

            Yes, you did. In your own words, what occurred in North America “happened hundreds of years ago. IT CAN’T BE STOPPED” and you weren’t alive then. Thus, you feel you do not have to leave Canada and renounce your citizenship; it’s OK to just say that it was a very bad thing and move on with life.

            But when it comes to China, they should pack their bags and leave Tibet and Xinjiang. Why? Well, what they’re doing can be “stopped.” So they should leave, and saying that what happened in the past was bad is not enough.

            And that leads me to say that you expect the Chinese to do something that you won’t do yourself. You won’t leave Canada, because what’s done is done, but the Chinese have to leave Tibet and Xinjiang because what’s done can be undone.

            The perverse irony here is that you can only complain about this because the Chinese did not do to the Uyghurs and Tibetans what North Americans did to the First Nations and Native Americans. Canada’s about 4.3% aboriginal, and the U.S. is less than 2%. Tibet is about 93% Tibetan, and Xinjiang is about 43% Uyghur.

            But I’ll be fair. This discussion started because 42 didn’t recognize the sins of Chinese history. However, that doesn’t help you here. You can only complain about the Uyghurs specifically because the Chinese exterminated the Zunghars in 1758. The Zunghars were in control of what is now Xinjiang before then, not the Uyghurs. Uyghurs and Han resettled Xinjiang after the Zunghar genocide. So why should only the Han leave?

          • gregblandino

            There’s a difference between asking the Han to stop the cultural genocide of the Uyghurs and asking them to self ethnic cleanse themselves from Xinjiang. The current Han can and ought to stay, but the current policy is centered on bringing in more Han colonists and pushing Uyghurs out. That should stop. The current Han population can stay, but it should not be increased by resettlement, and destruction of Uyghur cultural sites should stop. Two rights don’t make a wrong, and no one is calling for the ethnic cleansing of the Han from Xinjiang.

          • Alex Dương

            I don’t think you’re saying what Jahar is saying. Whenever someone claims,

            No colonization because they couldn’t. They are envious of western imperialism. But they are working at it now.

            it seems clearly implied that the person believes Chinese claims to the regions in question are invalid. You, on the other hand, seem to saying that the claim is valid, but the policy should be changed. I agree with that.

          • gregblandino

            Or it could be a reference to neo-colonialism in Africa? It is a response to 42.

            “Never in chinese history did China wiped out entire populations just to colonize their lands, as in wiping out native american indians or aboriginals in other parts of the world. Never did China attempted colonization of any country outside their regions for that matter.” It seems to be talking about overseas colonialism, at least in this conversation.
            I am under the impression that Jahar is not advocating the ethnic cleansing of Han from Xinjiang, just a cessation of current anti Uyighur policy.

            Either way, it seems this thread got trolled expertly by “Ways that are Dark.” Also, you should think long and hard about giving Ways that are Dark a pass on the comment that German Jews who emigrated to America in the 30’s were part of some movement that had a “atavistic hatred of Western Civ…” That’s some straight up Nazi propaganda bullshit right there. Just because you don’t agree with their left wing ideology doesn’t mean as a Mod you don’t have a responsibility to confront Fascism on your board.

          • Alex Dương

            Ethnic cleansing is a bit of a loaded term here IMO. I don’t think Jahar is advocating for Han genocide in Xinjiang or Tibet. But I do think he feels that Chinese claims to the regions are invalid and that ideally, the Han who live there should pack their bags and leave.

            I wouldn’t say that I’ve given “Ways That are Dark” a pass on any of his comments. To the contrary, I’ve pointed out how laughable his ideology is. He shit talks “Asian American academics,” but he can’t even name one; he first names a Chinese Hongkonger and then an Asian American playwright. He accuses Asian Americans of disloyalty, but his poster child for treachery is Wen Ho Lee.

            While he may be trolling, some people have replied to his comments without having called him out on any of his bullshit. Others have replied to people who have replied to his comments without replying to the original comments. So I think it’s instructive to leave his comments up, with all their racist and fascist warts included, to illustrate a point: in both good and bad, we really aren’t so different from the Chinese at the end of the day.

          • gregblandino

            Meh, I was just saying that comment was particularly odious and ought not have gotten a free pass. I wasn’t denigrating the rest of your fine work as it were. I admit not knowing much about David Henry Hwang or the particular article that he quoted, but I have read the book that he gets his username from, and it’s full of shit. The author got arrested for being a paid agent of the Imperial Japanese propaganda arm. It just seems when he was spouting anti Chinese agitprop everyone was up in arms, and the second he was like “JK, fuq da Joos!” everyone sort of shrugged and was like “meh, leftists amirite.”

          • Alex Dương

            Point taken. I did not make the Nazi connection until you pointed it out.

            As for David Henry Hwang, are you familiar with Frank Chin’s work? The slight irony here is that Chin accuses Hwang of being a “white Christian sellout” while “WTaD” accuses Hwang of being anti-white. I suppose if someone elicits such reactions, he’s really neither.

          • gregblandino

            Play’s are not my thing, though I did go to the trouble of looking up his work afterwards. WTaD’s argument smelled like bullshit and looked like bullshit but you had it covered and I didn’t know enough of the source material to want to open my mouth. It is pretty standard internet memeology to reply to people pointing out racism as being racists themselves, so it’s not that surprising.

          • Kai

            Already dealt with. WTAD is just the latest incarnation of a troll who will certainly be back under a new guise. It’s a neverending battle.

          • gregblandino

            Is it the schwarma troll? It seems he/she was recycling the errors of the anti Muslim rhetoric of the previous threads to make “anti Confucian” rhetoric. Maybe some sort of meta trolling “reducto ad absurdum” of contrasting the ridiculous anti Islamic rhetoric to a ridiculous anti Chinese rhetoric.

          • Kai

            No, not the same. Unfortunately, we have something of a rogues gallery.

          • Jahar

            You keep arguing against someone that isn’t me. I didn’t say anything about anyone leaving.Twice I’ve told you this now. I don’t know why you think I did.

            How can you say what they are doing can’t be stopped? Intentional repression, with the apparent end goal of assimilation or extermination of a people can be stopped very easily. Stopping doing the things I mentioned earlier would be a start.

          • Alex Dương

            I don’t know why you think I did.

            You stated that the Chinese are copying “western imperialism” because they “can.” That implies that Chinese claims to its border regions are not valid. Hence, my replies.

          • Jahar

            I wasn’t talking about border claims. I was talking about the treatment of people.

          • Alex Dương

            Then I apologize. Whenever I read that the Chinese are being imperialist or copying historical western imperialism, I see that as a criticism of the border claim as well as a criticism of how the people are treated.

          • Jahar

            Oh I have lots of issues with their claims, just not in this part of the country.

          • Mao’s_a_Dong

            As someone from Quebec, what? You’ll probably delete this, but please enlighten us further. No offense, but what?

    • Mao’s_a_Dong

      The Russians also prove your theory. Vapid animals.

      • Probotector

        I actually think the Russians aren’t so bad, but then again I’ve never been there or lived there, just met a few who seemed okay. Putin seems to be doing a decent enough job for his own people’s interests. Then again, I used to think the same about China it it’s leaders before I lived there.

    • Jahar

      One thing about Communism though. While our societies were doing their best to promote moral and ethical behavior(dot that everyone follows it), the Communists were doing their best to beat any little bit of it out out of people.

  • Ways That Are Dark

    This is “face culture”. Chinese are very proud of “face”, Asian “American” academics will often speak glowingly about how “unique” this is to Chinese people.

    The reality is that it’s fake morality. The opposite of morality. We too have “face” in the West, we just call it dignity. We do not believe a man “gains face” by acquiring a Bentley or a Ferrari. The Chinese conception of face relates to fakery and trickery,

    Let me fashion you with an example. During a particularly awful outbreak of Cholera in Shanghai in the 1920s, Western charities bought a bunch of vaccinations and medicine to be imported into the city – As was usual, Chinese were to be given it for free, while westerners were to pay (you may find this unusual, given the bullshit propaganda about the “century of humiliation”, but this was standard fare for western charities for obvious reasons) – The Chinese government, the Republican government in this case, impounded the medicine and demanded a ransom for it (this was also common fare, despite the noble pronouncements of the ungrateful little swine Sun Yat Sen) – The westerners begged the KMT to release the medicine, and, after pressure and foreign press picking up on it, they did.

    …However, they did it with a proviso. It was to be given to Chinese re-sellers at a much lower price than to western charities and distributors, who were charged at so high a price for it that it would look as though they were gouging the native Chinese, while the Chinese themselves were offering a fair deal.

    That’s “face”.

    That’s Confucius.

    That’s fake morality.

    You see this all over the Chinese world. Whether it’s Taiwanese dramas making Koxinga out to be a noble freedom fighter who treated the captured Dutch and native Austronesians with great clemency and decency, or with this example here, with foreign altruism being seen as an implicit attack on the Celestial Kingdom.

    The reality is this, and the mods will undoubtedly delete this but I’ll go ahead and say it anyway: Chinese people see altruism as something to be mercilessly exploited. They do not see it as positive.

    Note how the descendants of the dragon like to ascribe to themselves racially exclusive behavioral traits (fillial piety) but claim any positive western trait (outgroup altruism) is in fact a universal one, equally applicable to them.

    • mr.wiener

      No reason why this should be deleted bro. I’m a believer in etiquete, not a nazi.
      Just by the by , I know Kongxinga was no angel , but he did let the Dutch go after he defeated them ,correct? If this is not the case it isn’t unusual for any country to whitewash any failings its heros might have.
      That said your story about the medicine was interesting and worthy of investigation.

      • Ways That Are Dark

        There’s a Taiwanese historical drama that shows Koxinga freeing White Dutch women from a nefarious White pirate of some kind.

        In reality they were all taken into concubinage. Koxinga also slaughtered most of the prisoners, the garrison were allowed to leave though.

        Another fake Chinese propaganda point to bear in mind (Kai and Alex may bring it up):

        “Missionaries were exploiting the Chinese people!”

        Pure bullshit. The most corrupt religious institutions in China have always been Buddhist Monasteries. Moreover, what on earth was there to “exploit” in a missionary going from a then first world country to some far-flung subsistence shithole in Sichuan? It’s insane that Chinese still push these propaganda points and westerners accept them.

        The ENTIRE CONCEPT of the “century of humiliation”, along with concepts like “unequal” treaties, requires re-examination.

        For the past 50 years we’ve let Chinese and overseas Chinese dominate the discourse and push a purely “noble and downtrodden Chinese versus wicked whites” narrative. It’s time to end that shit once and for all.

        • mr.wiener

          I’ll have to check that one out, definitely not mentioned on the plaque down in Tainan.

          • Ways That Are Dark

            There are several books about Koxinga that mention all of this. The man was little more than a pirate, and absolutely without mercy towards the Austronesians. I recall one account of a British merchant on then-Qing Taiwan being begged by some Austronesians of relative import within their community to bring the Dutch back, because “at least the Dutch treated them with some humanity”.

            The lack of empathy for the “natives” makes the European settlement of the Americas look like a humanitarian expedition by contrast. And this isn’t just a whimsical thing, it’s systematic in the Chinese treatment of conquered peoples – The Sogdonians and Ran Min, or the punitive expeditions into Vietnam, which, by the way, are probably the most successful example of complete destruction of a native culture and replacement with something else (in this case Confucianism and all its attendant fake bullshit).

            It’s Chinese CULTURE that’s the poison. Every last drop of it from legalism and confucianism to face and insane ethnocentrism. Don’t be taken in by the “Chinese people are only like this because of the Cultural Revolution” fakery. Chinese people have ALWAYS been like this.

    • Alex Dương

      It’s funny that you claim that Asian American (nice quotation marks there, by the way) academics are the ones who assert that face is uniquely Chinese. I’ve had numerous discussions with Western expats here who think that face is a Chinese thing and that there is no equivalent in the West.

      • Ways That Are Dark

        See: David Yau-fai Ho – Face, Social Expectations and Conflict Avoidance.

        Asian “American” academia is packed full of fifth columnists who hate their adopted “home”. If only more whites could see the real face.

        • mr.wiener

          I’d say “Asian academia” (my quotation marks) is also full of people less than impressed with the KMT, CCP and modern asian politics in general, given that many of them are refugees from this.
          If asian americans are as negative about the US as many westerners in China are about China, then the US is in deep shite indeed.

          • Alex Dương

            We are in deep shit, but not because Asian Americans are *cough* “fifth columnists” as this guy asserts. We’re in deep shit because we have trillions in unfunded liabilities, and our attitude is mostly “whateva. That’s the next generation’s problem.”

          • Ways That Are Dark

            That’s right Alex, that corporate espionage, and the reflexive outrage whenever one of your tribe is arrested for this crime from supposed “Americans” (Look at their defense of Wen Ho Lee!) doesn’t exist, nor is it a problem in any way.

            And forget about economics. What matters is that America is descending into a sort of quasi-imperial state formed of multiple competing tribal groupings. This is what happens when you hit saturation point levels of “diversity”.

            Balkanization is the name.

        • Alex Dương

          O…K…so your example of an Asian American academic is a Chinese Hongkonger who was the director of the clinical psychology program at the University of Hong Kong for a quarter century and who was at the University of Hong Kong while he published the article that you mentioned.

          So remind me, when did Hong Kong become a part of the United States of America?

          • Ways That Are Dark

            That’s right, he’s actually less anti-white than the likes of Henry Hwang.

          • Alex Dương

            OK, so you admit that your example of an “Asian American academic” is a Chinese Hongkonger who spent most of his academic career in Hong Kong. Got it.

            And how is (David) Henry Hwang anti-white? You know his wife is a white American, right? Wait, don’t tell me; she’s a race traitor, amirite?

          • Ways That Are Dark

            Henry Hwang is anti-white. He has built his literary and stage career on a narrative of white oppression of non-whites. Nowhere in his repotoire will you find any discussion of what formed the massive modern Empire state of the PRC, Han control over Taiwan and so on.

            You will twist this around by saying this is irrelevant, after all, he’s “American”. But his racial identity is obviously very important to him. Hwang and others in your community have built a career out of pushing that aforementioned narrative, just look at the furor he tried to cause over the casting of a white person in a Eurasian role in Miss Saigon.

            And yes, his wife is a race traitor. Any woman who marries a man who hates the men of her race (obvious in Hwang’s work) is a race traitor.

            But Alex. Let me ask you something at face value here, man to man, as if there weren’t a trans-atlantic trunkline separating us:

            When your people talk about “white racism” with a straight face, does it truthfully, honestly and genuinely never occur to them that whatever they allege against whites can be alleged against Imperial China tenfold? That Han Chinese virtually wiped out Austronesian Culture on Taiwan and that, unlike Whites in present day North America, they gleefully celebrate this to this day without any sense of guilt and shame? That they wiped out numerous racial groups in the interior of China, particularly Central Asia, such as the Jie to degrees that were basically analogous to modern day genocide? That you prosecuted perhaps the most successful culturally imperialist campaign in history in your punitive military expeditions against Vietnam over the millenia, and subjugation of any nativist uprisings there against the Confucian order you put in place?

            Given all of this, how can your kind keep a straight face when talking about how the song “Kung Fu Fighting” is part of some racist superstructure and causes you great pain?

            To a westerner who comes from a background of things like Republicanism and Ethical and Metaphysical Universalism, such, I can only call it “shamelessness” ironically enough, boggles the mind. I truthfully, I really do mean this, I _truthfully_ cannot understand it Alex. Please try to help me here.

            “East is East, and West is West, and never shall the twain meet.”

          • Alex Dương

            I’m not twisting anything around. Unsurprisingly, it doesn’t take long for you to show that your ideology is self-contradictory. You criticize Asian Americans (even though you appear to be British, thus why you even care about a minority in a foreign country baffles me) for being “fifth columnists” and outright state they are disloyal to the U.S. But hey, when David Henry Hwang writes about Asian Americans instead of Chinese people, that’s wrong too! What bullshit.

          • Ways That Are Dark

            My kind founded the United States of America, and it was founded upon European values, not Sino-Confucian ones.

            I care about the welfare of European-Americans, it’s that simple.

          • Alex Dương

            Correction: Americans who wanted to be independent from your country founded the United States of America, and it is unbelievably pathetic that you actually want to take credit for this.

            And why, exactly, do you care about European Americans? You aren’t even American. Why not care about your country’s native people?

          • Ways That Are Dark

            Because, my dear Alex, the broader concept of race that transcends national boundaries exists regardless of whether or not I want it to.

            For example, I can stop considering Anglo-Americans my cousins tomorrow, but that isn’t going to stop Chinese in California doing everything they can to further the rise of their own racial cousins back in the PRC, including spying on US Companies and US government departments.

          • Alex Dương

            Why am I not surprised that your best example of Chinese American treachery is Wen Ho Lee?

          • Ways That Are Dark

            The man was caught breaking into his office in the dead of night in an attempt to delete files on his computer.

            Ruling or not, to me, that’s a guilty man’s behavior.

          • Alex Dương

            Irony: British person claims credit for the founding of the United States of America because of “European values.” British person then refuses to accept the ruling of the Wen Ho Lee case because it did not support his view of the world.

          • 42

            utter nonsense! the chinese have never wiped out austronesian culture on taiwan in a scale like the europeans did to the native indians in america. instead the han chinese tried to assimilate the taiwanese aborigines, and to this day taiwanese aborgines are still living amongst the taiwanese population, some are even well recognized and have respected contribution in various industries of taiwanese society. dont forget taiwan have been occupied over centuries by europeans, japanese, chinese and so on. to contribute any events to one race is preposterous.

            other than that, comparing this to genocide and atrocities on grand scales like the holocaust, wiping out a significant part of the native indian population in the americas, or the history of western colonization and imperialism on other parts of the world in general, is downright shameful!

            a bit of advice, go read upon history and try to understand history before you go attempt of preaching about righteousness. it will make you appear less foolish. unless you are a troll, which i think you are, then you apparently choose to act foolishly…

          • mr.wiener

            That and the Taiwanese aboriginals were able to defend themselves pretty well, and once they’d given up the low lands to the Fujian interlopers were practically impossible to defeat in their mountain fortresses. Saying that the Chinese or Europeans wiped out the Aboriginals at thet stage is giving them far too much credit.
            The native tribes of Taiwan got on with what they did best…. raiding each other.

          • Jahar

            Cultural assimilation is still wiping out a culture. Ask the Uighurs and Tibetans in 100 years. Or the Yuezhi, or Xiongnu, a few thousand years ago.

          • Ways That Are Dark

            “Cultural Assimilation” also goes hand in hand with massacre, violence and pacification. For example, the Ming campaigns against Vietnam were extrordinarily violent, but went hand in hand with a heavy top-down “cultural assimilation” of Vietnamese people.

          • Ways That Are Dark

            “and to this day taiwanese aborgines are still living amongst the taiwanese population”

            As are Plains Indians in the United States and Amerind tribes in South America. In fact, Plains Indians in the United States enjoy a level of autonomy, if they wish it, totally unheard of amongst native groups in either Taiwan or the PRC.

            As for the Dutch, they were clearly treated the Austronesians better than your kind, since Pickering (1898:116-18) reports that Europeans were welcomed by Austronesians on Taiwan under Qing rule, and expected to the Dutch to return and “free” them.

            And I’m not “preaching about righteousness”. I’m remonstrating against the bullshit narrative of the “century of humiliation” that has been allowed to go uncontested even in western academic circles for near on 60 years now.

          • ScottLoar

            “Go read upon history and try to understand history” before making foolish comments like the Europeans wiped out native Americans on a genocide scale.

            Look to what happens anywhere when an isolated group is first exposed to pathogens for which they obviously have no immunity; 9 out of 10 Indians died from disease, and this from a total population that did not number more than 3 to 5 millions. Next look to the history of North America and discover, for example, that before use of the Walker Colt which allowed a mounted man to fire repeatedly from the saddle the Comanche empire not only thrived but expanded through the 1860’s. Indians commonly outfought and outgunned settlers, militia and regulars throughout most of American, Canadian and Mexican history, and it was only by the European’s increasing strength of numbers that each tribe often occupying millions of acres of land was gradually reduced. To this day the US government recognizes 566 tribes.

            Indian warfare before and after the Europeans arrived in the Americas was total: man, woman, child would be butchered, sparing only those few who would become slaves (and typically not living more than three years) or when warranted adopted into the tribe as replacement members. Entire tribes like the Huron were wholly erased by their tribal enemies while others like the Iroquois increased and expanded their domain after the Europeans arrived. The Abenaki were the scourge of New England before Rogers Rangers attack yet live on to this day on tribal lands centuries old.

            Look to what Jiang Jing-guo (Chiang Ching Kuo), son of Chiang Kai-shek, did to the Taiwanese aborigines when they protested government land policies; he ordered the military to burn Alishan. Why don’t you know that history? Do you not know that aborigine flesh was sold in the markets of southern Taiwan during the early 20th century?

            As always, those pretending to superior morality are blind to their own faults while yelling the loudest.

      • Probotector

        American hyphenates are unnecessary. You’re American, your race is irrelevant, only skin deep. Cultural heritage, especially those relating to beliefs, ideas and opinions however, are of greater significance.

        Anyway, perhaps what he was alluding to is that these American academics, who happen to be Asian in appearance, were the first people he met who espoused these beliefs, and that might, in his view, mean that such beliefs are more valid because they (again, in his view, perhaps) came from the horse’s mouth. He may also have been implying that said people of Asian heritage who believe in a moral uniqueness of saving face, and whom identify with this ‘fake morality’ as he calls it, are not true Americans for doing so. I don’t know, just read this and thought I’d comment. I’m sure he’ll tell you when he replies.

    • Probotector

      Ok, but it’s ore likely some kind of warlord clique impounded the medicine. The Guomingdang weren’t really out of Nanjing until the end of the ’20s. Correct me if I’m wrong.

  • did

    Wait what?? How dafaq did this comment of mine get approved but “gullible in not in the dictionary” gets me warnings??

    • mr.wiener

      Because you came here looking to get in a flame war.

  • mr.wiener

    My apologies Alex. I let this comment through as some people seem to think that the mods are a bunch of sino~apologist that ban people willy nilly for having an opinion that differs from our perceived china chauvenism.
    Folks we aren’t the enemy or the thought police, we like a spirited discusion as much as you do, we participate in them too, but we have to keep this place from become a flame pit of trolls
    Please if you think I’m being a censor happy twat, tell me so.

    • Alex Dương

      No problem. He made his bed; we can all see it.

  • Alex Dương

    I used to think the same, but Asian-American studies is largely based on critical theory and critical theory is based upon critcizing what it sees as dominant power structures and discourses.

    So who founded “critical theory”?

    • Ways That Are Dark

      Jewish-Americans primarily, emigres from Germany.

      • Alex Dương

        Good. Were they “anti-white” too?

        • Ways That Are Dark

          Yes. Very much so. They were motivated by an atavistic hatred of western civilization.

          • Alex Dương

            Excellent. So you admit that your criticism of “Asian American studies” is really a criticism of far-left wing ideology.

  • Probotector

    I just read a synopsis on the book Ways That are Dark, and the examples that Townsend cites could very easily be applied to China today.

    • Ways That Are Dark

      Agreed. It’s a good book. The stuff about how eagerly the KMT and warlords continued the Opium trade is fascinating too.

      There’s nobody who has treated Chinese more cruely, shittily and sadistically than other Chinese.

      With extreme Westernization though (the good kind), this malady can be cured, I am still hopeful. I know a few good westernized Chinese. I hold out hope we can cure the sickness the lunatic called Confucius formalized.

      • gregblandino

        The author spent around 2 years in China and was later arrested and convicted for being a paid foreign agent of the Japanese propaganda agency. The book is fascist propaganda used to justify the Japanese invasion and colonization of China, with parts of the bookdevoted to the “beneficial” effects of the Japanese occupation of Manchuria that is complete horseshit. The “eye witness” section on the January 28th incident is especially egregious in its pointing the finger at the Chinese for starting the battle, which is a complete fiction. I’m assuming you’re just trolling, for which I’ll give you points for digging up some old school troll bait. Props, props.

    • gregblandino

      Probotector, looking for insights into Chinese culture by reading “Ways That are Dark” is like looking at an old Henry Ford pamphlet or a copy of “Der Sturm” for insight into Judaism. If you are looking for a more…balanced analysis of the influence of Confucianism and Daosim, look at Max Weber’s “Chinese Religion: Confucianism and Daoism. WTAD, that still fits your “not German Jews with an atavistic hatred of Western Civ” standard for Germanic philosophy I hope.

      If you’re looking for a better understanding of how the Chinese soldier fought in this era, and how the limitations both logistically and politically placed on “GI Zhou” constrained his performance in battle, I recommend Barbara Tuchman’s “Stillwell in China.” Stillwell, unlike this fascist sympathizing mercenary traitor Townsend, actually spoke Chinese and spent decades in country. And I’m not just throwing around Fascist like some stoned humanities post grad, Townsend and company were Fascist in a time where such people actually existed.

  • monster

    there are still many nice people and things in the world.
    for example, when my father got sick, relatives from his side all travelled home to visit him and gave him money.
    my father saw an ipad on the toilet wall but he did not take it away.
    my father feeds a tiny wild cat everyday with meat.

    • hess

      Your dad didn’t steal an ipad. +1 for humanity

    • KamikaziPilot

      MONSTERRRR!!!!! I love you bro!!!

  • Alex Dương

    My point was quite clear: his comment wasn’t coherent. He was talking about too many different things all at once.

  • Alex Dương

    There, wasn’t that hard to be honest, right? I don’t think Qinshihuang’s Mausoleum compares poorly in the slightest.

  • Alex Dương

    “In this case”? I have never, ever denied or downplayed China’s imperial past.

  • KamikaziPilot

    I’ve been saying that line before your internet persona was even born. I get this gnawing feeling that we’ve met before. If you are who I think you are I still want to poop on you.

  • TransientDude

    awesome stuff

  • kennedy

    i was only scrolling down to see if any body wrote anything about blacks being good

  • Dennis Conner

    They are just acts of kindness. It does not matter where, when or who gave thoese kindness to others. They were just acts that all humankind should applaud, cherish and try to immulate. Don’t try to think or judge too much, but maybe just sit back, enjoy and try to learn from them. Surround yourself with those who love. Rid your life of those who hate.

  • anonymous

    Love to you!

  • Well Worth It

    Need examples for being a modest human being? Look here!